From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 02:29:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA02957 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:29:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f87.hotmail.com [207.82.250.193]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA02953 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 02:29:06 -0400 Received: (qmail 20275 invoked by uid 0); 1 Jun 1998 06:28:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19980601062836.20274.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.22.213.107 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 31 May 1998 23:28:35 PDT X-Originating-IP: [157.22.213.107] From: "Silicon Challenged" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Acoustic Knock Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 23:28:35 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >From diy_efi-owner@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sun May 31 20:31:11 1998 >Received: (from mail@localhost) > by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA00982 > for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 31 May 1998 23:06:20 -0400 >X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f >Received: from enterprise.cfu.net (root@enterprise.cfu.net [206.29.238.7] (may be forged)) > by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA00977 > for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 23:06:17 -0400 >Received: from cfu.cfu-cybernet.net (host67054.cfu.net [206.29.67.54]) > by enterprise.cfu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA15899 > for ; Sun, 31 May 1998 22:05:19 -0500 >From: "Bob McElroy" >To: >Subject: RE: Acoustic Knock >Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 22:05:24 -0500 >Message-ID: <000001bd8d0a$1f25c400$36431dce@cfu.cfu-cybernet.net> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 >Importance: Normal >In-Reply-To: <19980531171952.8001.qmail@hotmail.com> >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 >Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/abstract/apps/spra039.htm > >Most commercial Web sites now have decent search functions, which is how I >found the link above. I saved a copy of the information somewhere, but it >was much quicker to go back to the TI web site and find it again. > >As has been trumpeted recently on the list, a couple minutes searching on >your own can yield results for you much quicker, and it doesn't waste >bandwidth for everyone else. > >Bob M. > >PS - I'm just one of those book-taught ME's, but I don't think the TI DSP is >a turn-key solution for knock detection. You'll still have to invest >significant circuit design and software tuning time & effort to get a >working, reliable solution. > >-----Original Message----- >Once upon a time, there was a reference to a DSP for an acoustic knock >detecter - by TI I believe. Would anyone have any reference to this or >a copy? Would shure appreciate it. Need knock detection bad and a GM >knock sensor will work on the engine. Thanks. > > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 03:01:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03337 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:01:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f186.hotmail.com [207.82.251.75]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA03333 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:01:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 11262 invoked by uid 0); 1 Jun 1998 07:00:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19980601070042.11261.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.22.213.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:00:42 PDT X-Originating-IP: [157.22.213.85] From: "Silicon Challenged" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Acoustic Knock Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:00:42 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks, but someone civil sent me the information privately. I guess that now all of us must become look up experts to satisfy the ego of the haughty few and save the bandwidth for their precious project. I can live with that. Consider me spanked for thinking that maybe someone might have had the information handy and perhaps other information or experience that may be of use or that someone else might have an interest in it. And heavens forbid, that I was under the mistaken impression that this list might be for sharing information and not for twenty questions, "left as an excercise for the student" scholarly one upsmanship ego trips or lectures from students. Your elequant correction is duely noted. Did you ever read in your book learning, that the GM acoustic sensor actually WORKS and that perhaps the engine I am adapting it to might be close enough so that all I might want to do is see if there is a way to improve the performance and maybe push the envelope a little? Ah, its not worth it. Thanks again for nothing. And I'll try in the future to respect your sensitivities >From: "Bob McElroy" >To: >Subject: RE: Acoustic Knock > >http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/abstract/apps/spra039.htm > >Most commercial Web sites now have decent search functions, which is how I >found the link above. I saved a copy of the information somewhere, but it >was much quicker to go back to the TI web site and find it again. > >As has been trumpeted recently on the list, a couple minutes searching on >your own can yield results for you much quicker, and it doesn't waste >bandwidth for everyone else. > >Bob M. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 03:19:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03507 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:19:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f163.hotmail.com [207.82.251.49]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA03502 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:19:17 -0400 Received: (qmail 15582 invoked by uid 0); 1 Jun 1998 07:18:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19980601071848.15581.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.22.213.85 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:18:48 PDT X-Originating-IP: [157.22.213.85] From: "Silicon Challenged" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Gasoline Density Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:18:48 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Because the octane density question relationships is pure guess work, so far, and to avoid a long "wasted bandwidth" discussion - may I suggest that all parties check out the exhaustive gasoline FAQ written by Bruce Hamilton, a high fangled muckie muck with an oil company who might actually know what he's talking about. http://www.cs.ruu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/part1.html P.S. I put the url in for the search engined challenged - don't let it happen again. You must learn to look things up yourself. Habeneros - not just for breakfast anymore!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 03:53:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03889 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:53:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (root@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03885 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 03:53:31 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du310-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.56]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta2/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA08666 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:53:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199806010753.AAA08666@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:56:39 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: Analog Gauges / Air-core meter In-Reply-To: <199805280900.CAA04283@netcom3.netcom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu They are available today, no CPU, no CODE, no IC's, they are mechanical gauges, remember them ;-) I still use them, and will because of the same reason, I like the long sweep that the electronics ones typically offer. Sandy > >I can't see why AutoMeter, Stewart-Warner, VDO, etc. are still trying to >sell crappy 90 degree D'Arsenal meters when it's just not that tough to >make REALLY good 270 - 305 sweep gauges. It seems that the Japanese tuners >like HKS, Blitz, and Greddy are the only ones producing full sweep gauges, >so they charge $200-$300 each! In AutoMeter's defense, they have introduced >one 270 sweep meter but it is a low temp coolant gauge - it only goes to >210F, which is nearly worthless for anything but maybe quarter mile trailer >queens. > > >I hope this helps. > >Andrew > From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 05:58:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA04823 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:58:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pinochet.cityline.ru (pinochet.cityline.ru [195.46.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA04819 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 05:57:51 -0400 Received: from cittt.cityline.ru (ppp03-1-161.cityline.ru [195.46.161.161]) by pinochet.cityline.ru (8.8.8/t/97-Nov-22) with SMTP id NAA28222 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:47:50 +0400 (MSD) From: "Slava" To: Subject: I need a device ..... Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:45:56 +0400 Message-ID: <01bd8d42$1312d080$a1a12ec3@cittt.cityline.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All ! I need a device that produce the signal like: ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ********* ********* ********* ********** **** Amplitude is no matter. But high/period ratio must be depended from master ( or manage) voltage. It must be integral unit. Thanks for any help! I will make the unit for idle valve management. Slava. From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 06:10:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04953 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:10:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA04944 for diy_efi; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:10:00 -0400 Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:10:00 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Message-Id: <199806011010.GAA04944@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. To post: Send to "[list name]@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 11:38:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07293 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:38:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07289 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:38:18 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA21530 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:37:29 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Acoustic Knock Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 08:38:32 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3581c4c6.46052156@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <19980601070042.11261.qmail@hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <19980601070042.11261.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id LAA07290 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 00:00:42 PDT, "Silicon Challenged" wrote: >And heavens forbid, that I was under the mistaken >impression that this list might be for sharing information and not for >twenty questions, "left as an excercise for the student" scholarly one >upsmanship ego trips or lectures from students. Your elequant >correction is duely noted. > >Did you ever read in your book learning, that the GM acoustic sensor >actually WORKS and that perhaps the engine I am adapting it to might be >close enough so that all I might want to do is see if there is a way to >improve the performance and maybe push the envelope a little? Hey dude. Just in case some of this list-grumpiness is the result of my tirades spilling over from ION, I just wanted to say, that *maybe* (I dunno really what was on the other person's mind), but maybe that retort you got was partly a reaction to the spate of questions recently about stuff that has been posted over and over again in short proximity (not your case, of course). And ya gotta admit, the TI site IS pretty accessible. But your point is well taken that your request could have also been taken as trolling for others interested in same, or working on same. I presume the guys point was that there ARE lots of cases of people asking for something that a short trip to altavista woulda cured. Again, I been pretty grumpy meself of late, so I can't really excuse someone else's grumps. Just thinkin out loud, I guess. But there was some other content to your posts other than the request for TI info, that I wanted to follow up on. Cuz there's a hint that somehow we may be gettin snotty about the acoustic method, and suddenly don't think it works at all, and that ION is the only way to go. OH MAN, all I can say is I HOPE nobody is feelin that way! ION isn't even REAL yet! I take it that was also your point. Tis TOO true. And it's also true that OBVIOUSLY the acoustic method works, and that better filtering and recognition schemes would make it work even better. I just wanna say that I'M interested in ION because it's cool tech, it's a fun project, AND it might provide a more reliable knock detection in especially noisy environments (not to mention the value of misfire detection in aviation apps!), but I agree that the present WORKING technology IS acoustic, and anyone who needs to prevent knock MUST use it. I surely wouldn't recommend anyone run with 30# boost, and not deploy acoustic sensing, in the hopes that ION would come along and "save" them before they blew their engine up. (Just makin up an absurd example to illustrate B). PULLEZE don't anyone think that way, eh? One knock detector on the block, is worth a thousand on the bench. Heh. So, in sum, I'd say ION and acoustic detection are close friends, not adversaries. Hey, acoustic detection is a hard job for that PIEZO dude, and I'm sure if ION can put him outta that job of riding on a noisy crankcase, he'd be very happy to go back to doing equally important vibration sensing, and good ole microphone work, and leave the knock detection to someone else. But in the meantime, it's a hard job, but SOMEONE's gotta do it, and that means PIEZO is the current man of the hour. Nough said. Gar From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 13:53:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08584 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:53:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08580 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:53:27 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-14.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.32]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id NAA14004 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:52:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Coils for Ion Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:54:43 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jocabs nope Holley busy Davis Unified Ignition, at least understood what I wanted Accel, no answer in tech MSD, no answer in tech Can anybody think of someone else??????.... Is there/was some electronic magneto that used a "conventional" sorta coil??????. None of the normal IC distributors have much, any other clues. Got time, and phone, outa dialing numbers. Cheers Bruce nacelp@bright.net if ya got clues.... From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 14:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08799 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:11:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (root@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08795 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:11:55 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du344-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.90]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta2/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA22978 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:11:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199806011811.LAA22978@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:14:46 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: Coils for ION ... still a bust somewhat In-Reply-To: <002a01bd8cc3$a2f4b760$596cfed0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Have a look at http://mot-sps.com/automotive/ignition3.html . > >Motorola is trying to sell Ignition Drivers and IGBTs but the schematic is >interesting in that it shows an isolated secondary coil on plug type coil. >Looks very familiar. If it included ion sense I'd know from where it came. Good luck in getting them... And the diagram should be labeled 'Artists Conception' or something of that ilk. Sandy From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 14:14:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA08839 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:14:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kla-tencor.com (mail01.kla-tencor.com [206.67.220.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA08835 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:14:52 -0400 Received: from milxbh01.kla-tencor.com by kla-tencor.com (8.8.5/KLA-Tencor.3.6irm) id LAA07107; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by MILXBH01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:16:23 -0700 Message-ID: <933713F1FB7BD111AC2300A0C98F1AD1775353@MILXPR06> From: "Buchholz, Steven" To: "'diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: US Patent searches Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:17:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Where do you obtain copies of these patents in USA? > Does anyone know where can I access patents in Australia, preferably > online? > For those of us who live in the USA it is quite easy to get copies of patents ... there are a lot of service providers that you can call to get a copy. There is a web-based service that may be of help to you outside the USA. Check the following web page: http://www.patents.ibm.com/ You can serch the database and get full copies from them as well. There are probably other services, but this is the one I am familiar with ... HTH! Steve Buchholz BTW, I have no affiliation at all with IBM ... From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 15:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09916 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:29:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from server2.cwjamaica.com (root@server2.toj.com [208.11.38.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09912 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:29:09 -0400 Received: from op02 (port007.toj.com [204.117.176.107]) by server2.cwjamaica.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA25086; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:27:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <35731D01.1342@cwjamaica.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:28:33 -0700 From: Neil McKenzie X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Density of Gasoline? References: <3571A3F9.5FCB2E36@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just a suggestion : How about converting the pounds to fluid ounces (16 oz = 1 pound) then the 16 fl oz to ml (16 fl oz = 473 ml) Neil McKenzie > > Hi folks, > > After almost a year's hiatus, I've just resubscribed to diy_efi, hoping > to learn at the laps of the masters :) > > At the moment, though, I'm trying to determine new injector sizes for a > Bosch EFI system, and as I search out information on the topic, I am > continually confronted with injectors rated in lb/hr, whereas the Bosch > ones are rated in ml/min. Well, I need to convert back and forth from > ml/min to lb/hr, so I need a reasonably accurate density figure for > gasoline. From what I understand, however, this number can vary. So . > . . is there a commonly accepted number for this, or . . . ? > > -- > Best, > > Michael McBroom From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 15:29:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09930 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:29:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09922 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:29:38 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA1662 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:29:19 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:30:22 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> In-Reply-To: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id PAA09923 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:54:43 -0400, "Bruce Plecan" wrote: >Jocabs nope >Holley busy >Davis Unified Ignition, at least understood what I wanted >Accel, no answer in tech >MSD, no answer in tech >Can anybody think of someone else??????.... A right noble and intrepid effort, Sir Pelican. But I've just about given up hope of finding a "normal", single tower coil, and so I think we should switch our quest to just finding a suitable twin-tower/wasteFire coil. So, instead of tryna find an ordinary singleFire coil with independant pri's & sec's, let's segue to asking if anyone knows of a decent twin-tower coil that has some suitable connectors. Basically anything better than slots for spade terminals in the underbelly, like the GM ones. Now, for preferences, it should have MALE HV tower terminals (ya know, like spark plug ends), cuz I'd wanna SOLDER a connection to one of em, instead of use ordinary wire with a HV connector, and then pot that end. And that's not as easy if the towers are "sockets". But even this isn't a biggie. Then on the connector end, NO preferences other than NOT an embedded/potted female spade, like them GM gizmos. (Nuthin wrong with them when they're mounted on their module bases, but in this case we ain't got no plastic molded base, and I'd just as soon not have to make one, not to mention the seals to hermeticize the connection. I could glue them on, but I don't like the idea of glueing in place a friction connector. >Got time, and phone, outa dialing numbers. > >Cheers >Bruce nacelp@bright.net if ya got clues.... From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 16:28:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10735 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:28:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dns2.anl.gov (dns2.anl.gov [146.139.254.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10731 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:28:02 -0400 From: lkurek@smtpgate.anl.gov Received: from smtpgate.anl.gov (smtpgate.anl.gov [146.137.96.36]) by dns2.anl.gov (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA13134 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:28:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ccMail by smtpgate.anl.gov (ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02) id AA896732883; Mon, 01 Jun 98 15:28:04 -0600 Message-Id: <9806018967.AA896732883@smtpgate.anl.gov> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 98 15:19:36 -0600 To: Subject: Re[2]: Coatings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If they are applied too thick, then yes...they run a good chance of cracking and subsequently coming off. If the surface isn't properly prepared (sandblast finish) and completely free of grease/wax/oil, they coating WILL flake off. However, with all of the parts I have coated...they seem to last pretty well if applied correctly. You don't want to dip the parts, even if you thin the coating...it would still be WAY too thick. What I have found that works best is an airbrush to apply the coating to a preheated part (150-175 degrees). TTYL! Larry ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Coatings Author: at internet Date: 5/30/98 11:46 AM I have heard that unless the coating is evenly applied (uniform thickness) it willcrack and flake off. Does anyone know if this is true? This might sound off-the-wall, but for small parts, could they be dipped in a can of thinned coating solution? ^Bernie >Robert Humphris wrote: >> >> >The parts ARE fully coated, but they are definitely not EVENLY coated. The >> >ID of the colectorhas runs and bloches in the greenish grey coating, but the >> >outside black coating is smooth and even. Will it last? I have them >> >installed, and it's easy for me to disassemble the collector to inspect, so >> I'll know in a couple of months. >> >> I hope that smoothnes and even coating isn't a problem, as I have lots >> of little runs, blotches etc in the stuff that I did.. I cleaned up the >> pistons as best as I could and it all seems to be okay for fit etc.. >> Unfortunately I have run out of money and will not be getting my coated >> engine running for the forseeable future... >> >> Rob > >I had some problems applying CBC to my pistons. Seems the >air pressure wasn't high enough in the airbrush and the >coating ended up too thick. It bubbled and looked cracked, >so I'm going to sandblast it back off and try again. DFL on >the sides looks great, though. > >What coating(s) did you use and how are you applying it >(them)? >Shannen > From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 16:34:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10834 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:34:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10830 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:34:54 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-52.brokersys.com [209.113.60.53]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29207 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:38:04 -0500 Message-ID: <357310D8.A3F00276@brokersys.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:36:40 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Jocabs nope > Holley busy > Davis Unified Ignition, at least understood what I wanted > Accel, no answer in tech > MSD, no answer in tech > Can anybody think of someone else??????.... > > Is there/was some electronic magneto that used a "conventional" > sorta coil??????. > > None of the normal IC distributors have much, any other clues. > > Got time, and phone, outa dialing numbers. > > Cheers > Bruce nacelp@bright.net if ya got clues.... Hi Bruce, here's a couple... http://www.mwignitions.com/coil.html http://www.electromotive-inc.com/home.htm for old magneto systems http://Old-Engine.com/index.html Walter From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 17:06:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA11430 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:06:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (root@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11426 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:06:28 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du446-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.192]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta2/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA12767 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:06:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199806012106.OAA12767@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:09:36 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: Coils for Ion In-Reply-To: <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [snip, remember this concept] > >So, instead of tryna find an ordinary singleFire coil with independant >pri's & sec's, let's segue to asking if anyone knows of a decent >twin-tower coil that has some suitable connectors. Basically anything >better than slots for spade terminals in the underbelly, like the GM >ones. Here, Here! Check out M&W Ignitions page, lots of varients of coils, and no BS Connectors, sorry not the HV tower connector, but at least not those stupid GM connectors. Might even make you happy Gar ;-) http://www.mwignitions.com/coil.html Sandy From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 17:49:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12233 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:49:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (qmailr@pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA12227 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:49:42 -0400 Received: (qmail 17511 invoked from network); 1 Jun 1998 15:49:39 -0600 Received: from ts6-29.rpt.cyberhighway.net (209.161.38.155) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 1 Jun 1998 15:49:39 -0600 Received: by ts6-29.rpt.cyberhighway.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BD8D74.2B7D8110@ts6-29.rpt.cyberhighway.net>; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:32 -0600 Message-ID: <01BD8D74.2B7D8110@ts6-29.rpt.cyberhighway.net> From: MJones To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: 4D IAC motor Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:44:28 -0600 Encoding: 14 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anybody know definitevely if the IAC motor as used on Holley's 4d/di is interchangeable with any OEM type? Mine seems to be faulty -- it as often as not sticks and won't pull idle down from 1500 rpms or so. It's covered under warranty, but there is a two -three week wait for a new one. Since it's only 25 bucks or so, so I'd like to just pop over to the local Schuck's and pick up a suitable replacement. Barring that, I'll get the pintle into a suitable position and disconnect it until the new one arrives. Thanks, Mike J. From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 18:03:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12490 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:03:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.146.90.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA12486 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:03:17 -0400 Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA11622; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:03:17 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du186-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.186]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta2/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA19459 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:03:10 -0700 Message-Id: <199806012203.PAA19459@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:06:24 -0700 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: PCB for the hacker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just came across this site, might be good for someone that needs a quick jumpstart in doing PCB's as well as a free software package. I don't think it is somthing for group buys, but if you need an easy way to make a pcb, check it out. http://www.expresspcb.com Sandy From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 18:28:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12812 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:28:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp4.ny.us.ibm.COM (smtp4.ny.us.ibm.com [198.133.22.43]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12807 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:28:36 -0400 Received: from relay1.server.ibm.com (relay1.server.ibm.com [9.14.2.98]) by smtp4.ny.us.ibm.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA70956 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:19:41 -0400 Received: from US.IBM.COM (d03lms05.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.80.15]) by relay1.server.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32554 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:26:00 -0400 Received: by US.IBM.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 2.1.0.0) with snapi via D03AU045 id 5030050012430417; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:29:04 -0400 From: Kevin Vannorsdel To: Subject: Re: PCB for the hacker Message-ID: <5030050012430417000002L572*@MHS> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:29:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id SAA12808 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone know of some REAL CHEAP PCB fab's that can do small double sided boards for 50 bucks or so? ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu on 06/01/98 03:23:25 PM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: Subject: PCB for the hacker Just came across this site, might be good for someone that needs a quick jumpstart in doing PCB's as well as a free software package. I don't think it is somthing for group buys, but if you need an easy way to make a pcb, check it out. http://www.expresspcb.com Sandy From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 18:31:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12839 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:31:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12831 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:31:08 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA8416 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:31:07 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:32:10 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35af283c.71514078@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <199806012106.OAA12767@mail.wgn.net> In-Reply-To: <199806012106.OAA12767@mail.wgn.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id SAA12833 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:09:36 -0700, Sandy wrote: >Check out M&W Ignitions page, lots of varients of coils, and no BS >Connectors, sorry not the HV tower connector, but at least not those stupid >GM connectors. Might even make you happy Gar ;-) I DID, but they're over in Oz, and I WOULD like to find a coil that has a donor car findable in the US. SomeOthem coils make me think they could be some Commode specials (hee, sorry mates, I couldn't pass it up), or whatever them cars are called they make down there under GM license. They DO have some nice ones, and I've already sent them an inquiry (did last week, in fact), and they wanted to know WHY I was looking for a particular type of coil, so maybe they'd be interested enough in our ION to help us out with some suitable coils. Most places couldn't give a rip WHY you're looking for insolated secondaries. They just think yer strange! Anyway, if worst comes and we have to go out-country to get suitable coils, at least M&W IS likely to have some that will work. Just that I woulda thot this cain't be THIS hard in the US?? Argh, gnash. Man, if I could only get somethin like that GM SmartCoil, without the "smarts". I looked at a Nissan coil today, at the suggestion of SteveMaxBoost (who's gonna look further), and they had this one cherry lil per-plug-coil with an isolated primary, BUT the secondary has some kinda diode or transorb or built-in gap, cus there was NO DC continuity between the HV tower the secondary's gnd lead. Whimper. I just stood their looking at it, wishin I could make it into something it wasn't. Whimper. Other than the fact that I couldn't use the secondary, isolated or no, to measure ionization current, (other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play), other than that it was PERFECT! Small, light, nice low voltage terminals, I coulda cried! Snivel. Gar From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 18:33:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA12909 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:33:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA12905 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:33:44 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-52.brokersys.com [209.113.60.53]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA01099 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:36:47 -0500 Message-ID: <35732CAF.C1248A08@brokersys.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:35:28 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > > So, instead of tryna find an ordinary singleFire coil with independant > pri's & sec's, let's segue to asking if anyone knows of a decent > twin-tower coil that has some suitable connectors. Basically anything > better than slots for spade terminals in the underbelly, like the GM > ones. > > Now, for preferences, it should have MALE HV tower terminals (ya know, > like spark plug ends), cuz I'd wanna SOLDER a connection to one of em, > instead of use ordinary wire with a HV connector, and then pot that end. > And that's not as easy if the towers are "sockets". But even this isn't > a biggie. > > Then on the connector end, NO preferences other than NOT an > embedded/potted female spade, like them GM gizmos. (Nuthin wrong with > them when they're mounted on their module bases, but in this case we > ain't got no plastic molded base, and I'd just as soon not have to make > one, not to mention the seals to hermeticize the connection. I could > glue them on, but I don't like the idea of glueing in place a friction > connector. > Well, guess what I had in the trunk of my Dodge... A Mitsubushi coil Part# MD126461 Also has this number H4T00172 Dual twin tower coils (if I understand correctly what that means..) on a common 'armature'. Female HV connectors and thread/nut primary connections. Measuring resistances.... Primary: 1 ohm Secondary: 12.7K (between two towers. Open circuit between primary and secondary. I don't remamber what model Mits. it came from, except that it was a very small 4cyl turbo. Walt From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 18:50:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA13192 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:50:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.146.90.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA13188 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:49:58 -0400 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from webserver by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA11664; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:49:52 -0400 Received: from me (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA00259; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:49:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:49:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199806012249.SAA00259@webserver> Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980601190315.00796300@192.168.1.1> X-Sender: frederic.breitwieser@192.168.1.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:03:15 -0400 To: gnttype@gnttype.org, homebrew-autos@xephic.dynip.com, diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu, kitcar@majordomo.net From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Server Outage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Unfortunately my server recieved a nice lightning string, blew the modems. All fixed, and I'm back. If you tried to e-mail me in the last day or two, feel free to resend. Sorry for the bandwith. Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 20:17:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14192 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:17:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14187 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:17:32 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA12529 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:17:31 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:18:33 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35b63cbf.76765187@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35732CAF.C1248A08@brokersys.com> In-Reply-To: <35732CAF.C1248A08@brokersys.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id UAA14188 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:35:28 -0500, Walter Petermann wrote: >Well, guess what I had in the trunk of my Dodge... > >A Mitsubushi coil >Part# MD126461 >Also has this number H4T00172 >Measuring resistances.... >Primary: 1 ohm >Secondary: 12.7K (between two towers. >Open circuit between primary and secondary. >.. >Female HV connectors and thread/nut primary connections. I can get over the female secondary connector, by sawing off the (I hope there are no ladies present) uncircumsized foreskin (I speak as a man, not a female), and getting to one of the secondary connectors for soldering and potting purposes that way, but threaded connectors on the primary is bloody IDEAL, cuz the nuts can be safety-wired for critical apps, like racing or flying. The resistances are in line too. So, I call the Mits dealership, and there electrical parts are all sealed, and I can't even measure it unless I buy it, and Oh, BTW, it's only $163 list. Sheesh. Back to the moon for a few more howls. B) Hey, late breaking news, I found another dealer that says metering the part at their counter is NO PROBLEM, so tomorrow dudes! Meanwhile, keep them cardsNletter comin in. There's gotta be a cheaper one!!! Gar From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 21:28:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14766 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:28:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from enterprise.cfu.net (root@enterprise.cfu.net [206.29.238.7] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14762 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:28:17 -0400 Received: from cfu.cfu-cybernet.net (host67054.cfu.net [206.29.67.54]) by enterprise.cfu.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA18648 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:27:20 -0500 From: "Bob McElroy" To: Subject: RE: Acoustic Knock - finale? Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:29:46 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bd8dc5$ed2d88e0$36431dce@cfu.cfu-cybernet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19980601070042.11261.qmail@hotmail.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Perhaps we are all being a little too sensitive about our egos. I re-read my post, and didn't think it was that terribly offensive, but obviously I did offend some persons, and for that I apologize, that was not my intention. Now, I did not say that acoustic knock detection does not work, and yes, my books did reference the GM acoustic knock detection units (and yes, I am also aware that manufacturers other than GM are also very successfully using acoustic knock detection methods.) No where in my reply do I make the assertion that acoustic knock detection is not a viable means of knock detection. All I said was that any knock detection method needs control and interface hardware and software. I re-read the TI application note, and found no reference that the DSP IC manufactured by TI is sold by TI as a simple "plug-and-play" type solution. It is up to the person who wants to use the DSP to also make sure that there is appropriate hardware & software for the DSP. Quoting from the TI application note: "Knock detection strategies use the output of a signal conditioning stage to compare with a reference to determine the presence or absence of knock. Most systems today use windowing to isolate periods during the cylinder's firing cycle for analysis when knock is possible. ... By eliminating possible false trigger sources, ... the detection algorithm is more robust. The time this window is active varies with engine speed ... Tracking changing engine speed to calculate this time variation requires hardware or software ... for implementation." >From this quote, it seems to me that TI is stating that you need to provide your own software and/or hardware to interface and control the DSP. (Did I miss something somewhere else? No sarcasm intended, I'm just trying to understand because I know that I don't know everything, and it is very possible that I missed something important.) The TI application note does give some source code, but I would expect that the software would still need to be tweaked to work with your specific combination of engine and knock sensor. If I am mistaken, and there is a "black box" solution that you can simply hook up a few wires and it works, please let me know, and I will eat plenty of crow, and will also secure my CSH with JB Weld. Finally, as I recall, the initial posting was a simple request for someone to point you towards some information regarding the TI chip. Further, I seem to recall that you implied this could be easily adapted to your engine. I don't think it would be an easy adaptation, under any combinations of engines and factory knock sensors. I yield to your superior knowledge, and I will now be forever silent on this topic. Bob M. PS - My apologies for posting this to the list, and I DO NOT WANT TO START YET ANOTHER FLAME WAR on this mailing list, but I felt I needed to try to clear up any misconceptions regarding my posting. If anyone feels compelled to flame me, please do so privately to my home email address of rmcelroy@cfu-cybernet.net and don't worry about clogging my connection, my 4Mbps cable modem should be able to handle just about anything anyone can throw at me. Thank you. -----Original Message----- Thanks, but someone civil sent me the information privately. Did you ever read in your book learning, that the GM acoustic sensor actually WORKS and that perhaps the engine I am adapting it to might be close enough so that all I might want to do is see if there is a way to improve the performance and maybe push the envelope a little? From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 22:28:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15329 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:28:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15324 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:28:27 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-12.brokersys.com [209.113.60.13]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA08525 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:31:34 -0500 Message-ID: <357363BB.2F88E45A@brokersys.com> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:30:19 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35732CAF.C1248A08@brokersys.com> <35b63cbf.76765187@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:35:28 -0500, Walter Petermann > wrote: > > >Well, guess what I had in the trunk of my Dodge... > > > >A Mitsubushi coil > >Part# MD126461 > >Also has this number H4T00172 > > >Measuring resistances.... > >Primary: 1 ohm > >Secondary: 12.7K (between two towers. > >Open circuit between primary and secondary. > >.. > >Female HV connectors and thread/nut primary connections. > > I can get over the female secondary connector, by sawing off the (I hope > there are no ladies present) uncircumsized foreskin (I speak as a man, > not a female), and getting to one of the secondary connectors for > soldering and potting purposes that way, but threaded connectors on the > primary is bloody IDEAL, cuz the nuts can be safety-wired for critical > apps, like racing or flying. > > The resistances are in line too. So, I call the Mits dealership, and > there electrical parts are all sealed, and I can't even measure it > unless I buy it, and Oh, BTW, it's only $163 list. Sheesh. Back to the > moon for a few more howls. B) > > Hey, late breaking news, I found another dealer that says metering the > part at their counter is NO PROBLEM, so tomorrow dudes! Meanwhile, keep > them cardsNletter comin in. There's gotta be a cheaper one!!! > > Gar Gar, I thought you guys were all experienced junk yard hunters! Anyways, this thing isn't doing me any good sitting here. I'm never going to work on a *@%# Mits. again. If you or someone else wants to put it to use, it's yours. PS I found a lot of Ion circuits. Free lit on the 'interpretation' of currents is a bit thin, except from SAE papers. Looks like a trip to the library. Walt From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 22:50:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15518 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:50:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15513 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:50:46 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA16349 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:50:44 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Finale' and then some (long, trust me) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:51:47 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35c45cff.85021281@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <000101bd8dc5$ed2d88e0$36431dce@cfu.cfu-cybernet.net> In-Reply-To: <000101bd8dc5$ed2d88e0$36431dce@cfu.cfu-cybernet.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id WAA15514 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:29:46 -0500, "Bob McElroy" wrote: >Perhaps we are all being a little too sensitive about our egos. Hey BobE dude. Hey SiliChallenge. Hey maties. God knows I am NOT the person to be playing peacemaker in all this, bein the flaming idiot that I am, but where angels fear, ... you know the rest. >Further, I seem to recall that you implied this could be easily adapted to your engine. NOPE, Mr. TotallyChallenged didn't intimate it was easy, but he DID express two facts: he NEEDED to use acoustic sensing, cuz there wasn't anythin ELSE available or REAL at the moment, and also that he wanted to know about this "special sauce" TI stuff. Thas all. It's ALL TOO TRUE that the DSP approach to solving the limitations/weaknesses of acoustic knock detection is NO easy matter. Like some have recently opined, it's just fine for a chip foundry to offer "artist's conception" drawings. But/well/and TI's stuff may be a tad further along, but ANYONE who knows shtick from shinola knows that DSP isn't for your "casual observer". Your point well-taken. The other guy's also. He was I BELIEVE reeling from the segue we've made toward "newer technology", where as he needs a real and present solution NOW. In my NSHO, the place where you dudes took a "point of departure" was, you thot his request for TI DSP info was merely a lazy request for stuff, where as I know the guy, and it was way more than that, he has a present project problem he needs to solve, so YOU say, "hey, get off yer duff and just go over to the TI site", thinkin he's a slacker and a drone, and he says, "hey, arshole, I'm tryna solve a REAL problem here and am lookin for help/info". I'd say from what I ken of yous guys demeanors, that you'd both get along JUST fine after a few pints, cuz yer basically the same bloak, but met comin vrs. goin. Thas my take on the situation. Nobody wants to excuse lazy "gee, can someone tell me how many inches to the foot?" questions, of which there have been of late WAY too many, but at the same time, sometimes yous gotta read thru the lines and figure out who is talking, and WHY. Again, that's why I vote for private lists where everybody, and I MEAN everybody, KNOWS who they're talking to, and WHY. Our XAviation group is about 1/3 the size of diy_efi, but we don't have ANY of these problems usually, cuz we are FORCED by the charter to declare upon entrance our interests, and our full first and last names. That way, when somethin wacko like this comes up, you can AT LEAST go back to the all-in-one archive, and summon up the bloak and his intended purpose for being here, and get a "read" on him, as well as know WHO he is. I don't know just exactly who this "challenged" guy is, although I s'pose if I had arfOwit, I would. But WE use first and last names, until we get sooo familiar that BillG is sufficient, ifyaknowadamean. As I've mentioned to others on the list, it's not too late to take DIY_EFI 'private'. ALL that we do, in my own XAviation group, is require each new subscriber to (1) introduce himself, and say in public WHY he wants to be here, and especially his interest in EFI, and (2) we don't allow any anonymous or psuedonymous members who don't wanna take responsibility for what they post by putting their first and last name to it, and (3) we have a board of 7 Founding Members who serve as a governing body to settle disputes and solve knotty problems with the list, whenever they come up, so a single list administrator doesn't have to be the "bad guy". We picked these 7 guys, on my list, from a well-respected list of people on a public list we were "taking private", sotaspeak. Now, because of some bizarre interlopers to diy_efi, Orin has already had to switch over to "approve the subscriber" mode, rather than "automagic subscribe mode". As netbots and spamhacks become more prevalent, this is gonna be necessary anyway. Why not just institute a simple "gate-keeper" to give notice that everyone on the list is "responsible" for who they are and what they post. My own group doesn't have ANY censorship or moderation; posts made to the list by members go directly to the list; there is no "oversight" or "approval" or "censorship" for what is posted, but I can tell you that since it's inception, our XAviation list hasn't even thot or desired such "controls", CUZ the mere asking for an introduction and explanation of WHY the person wants to join, seems to have eliminated almost 99% of the rabble! The mere asking the question, "So are you seriously interested in this topic, or do you just wanna hang and chat?" seems to have accomplished an ENORMOUS amount of filtering, all by itself. Here endeth Garfield's impassioned plea for MORE "private" lists, not automatically open, like some barn door, to anyone and everyone who want's to come in and pee on the floor. BTW, I think you two guys, Silly-conChallenge and the "Bob McElroy" would actually get along fine. Too bad we've had this "Future Shock" of the way this group is managed at present. Fronkly, I think it's "F*ckup Shock" myself. The attempt of the internet to "elide" REAL people has produced nuthin but F*ckups. Time to edge on back to the Garden, ifyaknowadamean. Take the group PRIVATE, and RESPONSIBLE, and SERIOUS. Appoint a board of founders by vote, and DO IT! Most of these stupid problems will vanish into thin air, as they have on our XAviation group. Try it; you can always throw away the Front Door of the Meeting Room, at a later date, if you don't like it, and wanna go back to "The Barn". Gar From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 23:19:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA15814 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:19:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15809 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:19:54 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA16960 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:19:26 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 20:20:29 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35c86cbf.89053234@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35732CAF.C1248A08@brokersys.com> <35b63cbf.76765187@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <357363BB.2F88E45A@brokersys.com> In-Reply-To: <357363BB.2F88E45A@brokersys.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id XAA15810 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:30:19 -0500, Walter Petermann wrote: >Gar, I thought you guys were all experienced junk yard >hunters! Anyways, this thing isn't doing me any good sitting here. >I'm never going to work on a *@%# Mits. again. If you or someone else wants to >put it to use, it's yours. Nah, the info/intel on what's available is worth far more than a mere "sample". You keep that coil yerself, dude, cuz you may wanna use it for your OWN Ion experiments, shortly. Besides, have you EVER had to find a Mits car in the yards, when you REALLY needed one? There's a reason why their parts are soooo expensive. Their VOLUME isn't very high, even out here in the Yuppie State of the California. >PS I found a lot of Ion circuits. Free lit on the >'interpretation' >of currents is a bit thin, except from SAE papers. Looks >like a trip to the >library. Good on ya. Go for it. In one of the "ionization" patents is a discussion of interpretation of the raw signal, but it IS pretty basic. Funny thang is, them SAE papers are likely to tell you what "could be" rather than the SAAB papers, that tell you what IS. The way I figure it, like in EGOR's case, one hour on a real bench is worth a thousand in the books. And with ION, while the simple fire/misfire detection may be a dirt simple ionization current threshold, I figure a good session or two on the dyno stands of some of our more "technoid" members may be what's needed to determine better than any SAE paper, what realistically is the shape of KNOCK when seen thru ION eyes. Remember that while patents are a great source of "disclosure" information, their agendas aren't the same as ours. We wanna get something that works; they wanna cover their butts six ways from Sunday. Gar From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 23:53:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16261 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:53:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16257 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:53:08 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XfQ25065; Mon, 01 Jun 1998 23:52:15 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:49:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Message-ID: <19980601.235010.11350.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-15,18-21,26-28 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:30:22 -0700 garfield@pilgrimhouse.com writes: >A right noble and intrepid effort, Sir Pelican. But I've just about >given up hope of finding a "normal", single tower coil, and so I think >we should switch our quest to just finding a suitable >twin-tower/wasteFire coil. > >So, instead of tryna find an ordinary singleFire coil with independant >pri's & sec's, let's segue to asking if anyone knows of a decent >twin-tower coil that has some suitable connectors. Basically anything >better than slots for spade terminals in the underbelly, like the GM >ones. Hmmm... I wonder if the wastefire coils have a higher turns ratio. Would this affect your design, or would you be content with a higher output voltage (and less current)? By the way, I have a (hopefully intellegent) question. What are the highest frequency components that ION will be expected to read (I remember seeing some mention of a typical waveform when I looked at the patent)? What is the inductance of a typical spark coil's secondary? I think you can see what I'm getting at... Is the inductive reactance of the coil going to be a problem? Ray Drouillard _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Mon Jun 1 23:59:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16331 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:59:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16327 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:59:56 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp57-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.106]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA28071 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:56:07 -0400 Message-ID: <357379B6.285F@huron.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 00:04:06 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35732CAF.C1248A08@brokersys.com> <35b63cbf.76765187@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <357363BB.2F88E45A@brokersys.com> <35c86cbf.89053234@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:30:19 -0500, Walter Petermann > wrote: > > >Gar, I thought you guys were all experienced junk yard > >hunters! Anyways, this thing isn't doing me any good sitting here. > >I'm never going to work on a *@%# Mits. again. If you or someone else wants to > >put it to use, it's yours. > > Nah, the info/intel on what's available is worth far more than a mere > "sample". You keep that coil yerself, dude, cuz you may wanna use it for > your OWN Ion experiments, shortly. Besides, have you EVER had to find a > Mits car in the yards, when you REALLY needed one? There's a reason why > their parts are soooo expensive. Their VOLUME isn't very high, even out > here in the Yuppie State of the California. > > >PS I found a lot of Ion circuits. Free lit on the > >'interpretation' > >of currents is a bit thin, except from SAE papers. Looks > >like a trip to the > >library. > > Good on ya. Go for it. In one of the "ionization" patents is a > discussion of interpretation of the raw signal, but it IS pretty basic. > Funny thang is, them SAE papers are likely to tell you what "could be" > rather than the SAAB papers, that tell you what IS. > > The way I figure it, like in EGOR's case, one hour on a real bench is > worth a thousand in the books. And with ION, while the simple > fire/misfire detection may be a dirt simple ionization current > threshold, I figure a good session or two on the dyno stands of some of > our more "technoid" members may be what's needed to determine better > than any SAE paper, what realistically is the shape of KNOCK when seen > thru ION eyes. > > Remember that while patents are a great source of "disclosure" > information, their agendas aren't the same as ours. We wanna get > something that works; they wanna cover their butts six ways from Sunday. > > Gar Up here in CanukLand, there are NO Mits dealers - Chrysler sells their stuff, and when one is traded in that needs more than a couple hundred bucks to make it saleable it ends up in the wrecking yard. Still not easy to find parts for as the volume is still low - but a significant percentage over 5 years old is scrap. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 00:33:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA16907 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:33:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA16901 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:33:29 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA18547 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:33:29 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:34:32 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <357c8062.2056828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980601.235010.11350.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19980601.235010.11350.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id AAA16902 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:49:55 -0400, cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) wrote: >What are the highest frequency components that ION will be expected to >read (I remember seeing some mention of a typical waveform when I looked >at the patent)? What is the inductance of a typical spark coil's >secondary? I think you can see what I'm getting at... Is the inductive >reactance of the coil going to be a problem? Well, instead of adding to the "vagueness" of the group, why don't you try some numbers and show what you come up with? Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 02:52:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA18088 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:52:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@frapp.wolfe.net [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA18084 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 02:52:24 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25219 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:52:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id XAA13122 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806020652.XAA13122@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Finale' and then some (long, trust me) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 23:52:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <35c45cff.85021281@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> from "garfield@pilgrimhouse.com" at Jun 1, 98 07:51:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, it was those higher than me in the majordomo admin ranks that did that... It looked like we were in for or were going to be used for some kind of spamming. There are a few options that can be set - like who can post (list members only or anyone) and whether replies to to the list or the sender. The current settings were from general consensus in the past... Maybe that consensus has changed? Orin. > Now, because of some bizarre interlopers to diy_efi, Orin has already > had to switch over to "approve the subscriber" mode, rather than > "automagic subscribe mode". As netbots and spamhacks become more > prevalent, this is gonna be necessary anyway. Why not just institute a > simple "gate-keeper" to give notice that everyone on the list is > "responsible" for who they are and what they post. My own group doesn't > have ANY censorship or moderation; posts made to the list by members go > directly to the list; there is no "oversight" or "approval" or > "censorship" for what is posted, but I can tell you that since it's > inception, our XAviation list hasn't even thot or desired such > "controls", CUZ the mere asking for an introduction and explanation of > WHY the person wants to join, seems to have eliminated almost 99% of the > rabble! The mere asking the question, "So are you seriously interested > in this topic, or do you just wanna hang and chat?" seems to have > accomplished an ENORMOUS amount of filtering, all by itself. From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 03:03:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18221 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:03:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA18216 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:03:25 -0400 Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA29849 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:03:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: T Hergen To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ION-related IGN Comments & Coil Quest In-Reply-To: <356E768B.1A1ADE9F@mcn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Shannen, I apologize for replying so late (I was out of town)... Regarding the remote mounted coil in my GM vortec 4.3L V6 S10, it's a '92. I had a chance to check the GM manual on the motor, and a coil diagnostics chart indicates there should be no resistance between any coil terminal and the frame (I think that answers my question -- please let me know if you think this is incorrect). A few measurements with an ohm meter showed it looked like the common three terminal coils. All, To give people a point of reference for ignition coils, here's a picture to go along with Bob Hughes post of 5/28 which was seconded by Eric Schumacher (best explanation I've seen yet, Bob correct me if I'm mangling your intended description): (Use a fixed width font to view) ||o-------to plug primary ||o ||o Bat+ -----o||o o||o o||o secondary ---o||o | ||o | ||o | ||o----- | | x----------| | | To Points (or ignition module) Is this correct for most common inductive style ignitions? With my ohm meter, I can't tell what side of the primary the secondary is connected since I don't have enough resolution on the higher scales. Various flavors of CDI may be different, high voltage (primary side) may be different, and there's likely other systems to which this doesn't apply (some individual(s) get bent out of shape over anything, so I had I felt compelled to throw in a long winded "exception" list). Some of the posts seem to indicate that the primary and secondary have the Bat+ terminal in common. As another poster mentioned, alot of schematics are artists conceptions. In any case, in the common ("common" -- there's an opening for anyone who wants it) three terminal coil induction ignition system, when the points open (or the ignition module stops driving the coil to gnd) to create the spark, the return path to ground has to go through the Bat+ terminal (there isn't any other path to complete the circuit). Does anyone know which is "right" (maybe both are depending on the application) 1) secondary has Bat+ in common with primary or 2) secondary has points side in common with primary? Thanks, Tom thergen@svn.net On Fri, 29 May 1998, Shannen Durphey wrote: > T Hergen wrote: > > > > An autotransformer (the auto has nothing to do with automotive) is one > > that shares a common connection between the primary and secondary. Using > > an ohm meter, you'd find resistance bewteen any two terminals. > > > Thanks. > > Since you mention the vortec, on mine, I tried measuring the resistance > > between the high voltage terminal (to the distributor) and the case, but > > didn't get any reading. Assuming the coil is okay, this seems to indicate > > that this coil doesn't use the metal frame as a ground. Is this what > > you'd expect? > > Tom > No. Not at all. But GM has changed a lot of designs > lately. What year/vehicle/engine size? > From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 03:32:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18658 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:32:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from linux1.americasnet.com (root@www.americasnet.com [207.155.121.128]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA18654 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:32:38 -0400 Received: from beachscene.com (ppp01.americasnet.com [207.155.14.216]) by linux1.americasnet.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA12791 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:35:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3573AB19.83565924@beachscene.com> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 00:34:49 -0700 From: gt bradley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Density of Gasoline? References: <3571A3F9.5FCB2E36@earthlink.net> <35731D01.1342@cwjamaica.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Neil McKenzie wrote: > Just a suggestion : How about converting the pounds to fluid ounces (16 > oz = 1 pound) then the 16 fl oz to ml (16 fl oz = 473 ml) > Oops,but 16 fluid oz only equals one pound if the density is the same as water, for example take a pint of beer, it weight about a pound, drink the beer, observe the glass now is holding 16 fluid oz of air, and weights much less. repeat Of course if you just want to ball-park it, then your equations should work well. GT From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 03:32:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA18665 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:32:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f209.hotmail.com [207.82.251.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA18660 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:32:51 -0400 Received: (qmail 9785 invoked by uid 0); 2 Jun 1998 07:32:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19980602073221.9784.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.22.213.52 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Jun 1998 00:32:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [157.22.213.52] From: "Search_Engine Challenged" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: No Knock Content Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 00:32:20 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu An associate of mine is putting together a Bosch CIS conversion for a vehicle. We intend to add some electronic feedback to "EFI" trim it in. As this design decision has already been made - cast in concrete even, no alternatives are solicited. Thanks anyway for the thoughts. For the search engine challenged - please check this site out. http://www.auto-amd.com/star.html#NEW! Would anyone with EXPERIENCE on CIS systems care to comment on this - on whether it works, heard of them before or whatever. If this works what we would like to consider if it is worth directly purchasing or perhaps to possibly duplicate this or do something like it using the Lamda Valve made for CIS and something like a stamp or pic computer. Sort of a cheap, easy working fuel injection system that can be electronically tweaked into fine tune. Let the mechanical do the work and the electronics do the thinking. If you are low on flame block SPF-1000, feel free to respond by private E-mail. Thanks in advance to all the civil responses to help us accomplish this. Habeneros - not just for breakfast anymore!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 03:52:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA19015 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:52:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au (digger1.defence.gov.au [203.5.217.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA19011 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 03:52:50 -0400 Received: from exchvic1.dsto.defence.gov.au (exchvic1.dsto.defence.gov.au [146.221.39.76]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA14519 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:17 +0930 (CST) Received: by exchvic1.dsto.defence.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:52:43 +1000 Message-ID: From: "Graham, Peter" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Australian CDI kits READ THIS Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:52:42 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, There is no CDI kit in the June 98 edition of Silicon Chip. There is however a rehash of the high energy electronic ignition system originally from May 88 that uses the MC3334P chip and switches via an MJH10012 transistor. The new design allows you to put a trigger in from dual points, hall effect or reluctor and also has a tach signal. I have the article at work if anyone wants further info. Peter G. > -----Original Message----- > From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com [SMTP:garfield@pilgrimhouse.com] > Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 4:16 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Australian CDI kits READ THIS > > Thanks awfully for the link and the alert, BUUTTTT, are you absolutely > certain this is the same system that we've been discussing that was > originally published in Sept. '97 of SC? > > These are enough discrepancies, along with THIS design purportedly > coming from the June '98 issue of SC, that I'd bet this is yet another > design. Not sayin there's anything wrong with it atoll, just that it > maybe shouldn't be equated to the other design. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 04:02:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19184 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:02:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19180 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:02:40 -0400 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id UAA15661; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:02:34 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ppp118.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.118) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma015651; Tue, 2 Jun 98 20:02:30 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980602200435.00762510@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:04:35 +1200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Coils for Ion In-Reply-To: <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 12:30 1/06/98 -0700, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > >I've just about >given up hope of finding a "normal", single tower coil, Have you asked any coil manufacturers? try: Marshall Electric Corporation, Rochester IN 800 746 4367 or Andover Inc, Lafayette IN 317 447 1157 These outfits both manufature a wide range of ignition coils, maybe they already have one with isolate secondary, or maybe you can convince them to bring the wire out specially. Might be too rich for your blood though... I would call myself, but I am not even in the same continent. I might look for some asian sources if I can find the right business directories. regards, Mike Morrin From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 04:20:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19514 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:20:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA19510 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:20:53 -0400 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id UAA16393; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:20:49 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ppp118.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.118) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma016388; Tue, 2 Jun 98 20:20:41 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980602200853.0075c2e8@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:08:53 +1200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Finale' and then some (long, trust me) In-Reply-To: <199806020652.XAA13122@gonzo.wolfenet.com> References: <35c45cff.85021281@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 23:52 1/06/98 -0700, Orin Eman wrote: > >There are a few options that can be set - like who can post (list >members only or anyone) and whether replies to to the list or the >sender. The current settings were from general consensus in >the past... Maybe that consensus has changed? > Personally I prefer replies to sender. What modern email package does not have a reply to all button? Mike Morrin From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 04:57:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA20086 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:57:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scud.pronet.net.au (scud.pronet.net.au [203.34.103.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA20078 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:57:21 -0400 Received: (qmail 21543 invoked from network); 2 Jun 1998 08:51:14 -0000 Received: from dud169.pronet.net.au (HELO daves-1) (202.139.16.169) by scud.pronet.net.au with SMTP; 2 Jun 1998 08:51:14 -0000 Message-ID: <3573BEF4.5213@pronet.net.au> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:59:32 +1000 From: David Chambers X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:54:43 -0400, "Bruce Plecan" > wrote: > > >Jocabs nope > >Holley busy > >Davis Unified Ignition, at least understood what I wanted > >Accel, no answer in tech > >MSD, no answer in tech > >Can anybody think of someone else??????.... > > A right noble and intrepid effort, Sir Pelican. But I've just about > given up hope of finding a "normal", single tower coil, and so I think > we should switch our quest to just finding a suitable > twin-tower/wasteFire coil. > > So, instead of tryna find an ordinary singleFire coil with independant > pri's & sec's, let's segue to asking if anyone knows of a decent > twin-tower coil that has some suitable connectors. Basically anything > better than slots for spade terminals in the underbelly, like the GM > ones. > > Now, for preferences, it should have MALE HV tower terminals (ya know, > like spark plug ends), cuz I'd wanna SOLDER a connection to one of em, > instead of use ordinary wire with a HV connector, and then pot that end. > And that's not as easy if the towers are "sockets". But even this isn't > a biggie. > > Then on the connector end, NO preferences other than NOT an > embedded/potted female spade, like them GM gizmos. (Nuthin wrong with > them when they're mounted on their module bases, but in this case we > ain't got no plastic molded base, and I'd just as soon not have to make > one, not to mention the seals to hermeticize the connection. I could > glue them on, but I don't like the idea of glueing in place a friction > connector. > > >Got time, and phone, outa dialing numbers. > > > >Cheers > >Bruce nacelp@bright.net if ya got clues.... Ok, how about this nissan coil i have sitting in front of me. Designed for a four cylinder CA18 motor. It has 4 male spark plug posts on top labelled 1,2,3,4 ie two seperate waste fire coils. the connector is a three pin job in the side similiar to a bosch plug. ie 3 vertical male blades about 3mm wide in a female oval receptacle. ( | | | ) sort of. There are two seperate primarys on the outer two pins and the common of the primarys is in the centre. Only strange bit is i cant measure any continuity between any of the secondarys but i have had it giving sparks? The part # is 22448-D4200 other number on body is CM14-202 Any good. David From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 06:05:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20890 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:05:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from nottingham.ac.uk (pat.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.40.194]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA20886 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:05:33 -0400 Received: from ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.169.194] by nottingham.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0ygnwd-0005Ut-00; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:05:27 +0100 Received: from EAN2/SpoolDir by ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk (Mercury 1.32); 2 Jun 98 11:05:36 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by EAN2 (Mercury 1.32); 2 Jun 98 11:05:07 GMT0BST From: "Martin Hill" Organization: Mech Eng, University of Nottingham To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:05:01 GMT0BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Coils for Ion (BMW) X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Martin Hill" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-ID: <20D94C456FF@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > > > On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:54:43 -0400, "Bruce Plecan" > > wrote: > > > > >Jocabs nope > > >Holley busy > > >Davis Unified Ignition, at least understood what I wanted > > >Accel, no answer in tech > > >MSD, no answer in tech > > >Can anybody think of someone else??????.... > > > > A right noble and intrepid effort, Sir Pelican. But I've just about > > given up hope of finding a "normal", single tower coil, and so I think > > we should switch our quest to just finding a suitable > > twin-tower/wasteFire coil. > > > > So, instead of tryna find an ordinary singleFire coil with independant > > pri's & sec's, let's segue to asking if anyone knows of a decent > > twin-tower coil that has some suitable connectors. Basically anything > > better than slots for spade terminals in the underbelly, like the GM > > ones. > > > > Now, for preferences, it should have MALE HV tower terminals (ya know, > > like spark plug ends), cuz I'd wanna SOLDER a connection to one of em, > > instead of use ordinary wire with a HV connector, and then pot that end. > > And that's not as easy if the towers are "sockets". But even this isn't > > a biggie. > > > > Then on the connector end, NO preferences other than NOT an > > embedded/potted female spade, like them GM gizmos. (Nuthin wrong with > > them when they're mounted on their module bases, but in this case we > > ain't got no plastic molded base, and I'd just as soon not have to make > > one, not to mention the seals to hermeticize the connection. I could > > glue them on, but I don't like the idea of glueing in place a friction > > connector. > > > > >Got time, and phone, outa dialing numbers. > > > > > >Cheers > > >Bruce nacelp@bright.net if ya got clues.... Have you tried BMW coils. There are single coils available for those which sit directly on top of the plug. On the top are three connections, outside two for primary, middle one for secondary. Not sure if you have looked at these already, apologies if you have. Martin From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 06:09:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20931 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:09:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from freddie.vianet.net.au (root@freddie.vianet.net.au [203.13.35.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA20926 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:09:27 -0400 Received: from jimiI4.vianet.net.au (jimiI4.vianet.net.au [203.26.237.201]) by freddie.vianet.net.au (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA25266 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:34:59 +0800 From: db@vianet.net.au (Darryn Watson) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Australian CDI kits READ THIS Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 10:07:37 GMT Message-ID: <3574ce3e.1458755@mail.vianet.net.au> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id GAA20927 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:52:42 +1000 , you wrote: >Hi all, > >There is no CDI kit in the June 98 edition of Silicon Chip. There is >however a rehash of the high energy electronic ignition system >originally from May 88 that uses the MC3334P chip and switches via an >MJH10012 transistor. The new design allows you to put a trigger in from >dual points, hall effect or reluctor and also has a tach signal. > >I have the article at work if anyone wants further info. SORRY !!!!!!!!!!!!! After reading the June 98 SC and looking closer at the ad its not the same kit OOPS If the numbers are above 10 for the CDI I could still get a better price if anyone is interested Its only about $10 less for 1-9 units wholesale Darryn BTW With the CDI I had trouble getting it to work with my VDO Tacho. I needed the extra little circuit as shown in the circuit diagrams From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 08:23:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA22239 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:23:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22235 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:23:46 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-237.nordson.com [207.206.59.237]) by users.qual.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/CICnet/IAG) with SMTP id IAA05099 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:26:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004e01bd8e20$b0ebe830$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Density of Gasoline? Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:18:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu An avoirdupois ounce is weight. 16 of them is a pound. A fluid ounce is a volume measurement, not a weight. 16 fluid ounces of water does not weigh a pound. Isn't our measurement system wonderful? Stick to metric if you want real answers. Gary Derian >Neil McKenzie wrote: > >> Just a suggestion : How about converting the pounds to fluid ounces (16 >> oz = 1 pound) then the 16 fl oz to ml (16 fl oz = 473 ml) > >Oops,but 16 fluid oz only equals one pound if the density is the same as >water, > >for example > >take a pint of beer, it weight about a pound, >drink the beer, >observe the glass now is holding 16 fluid oz of air, and weights much less. >repeat From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 08:25:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA22259 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:25:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mcmsys.com (root@mcmsys.com [207.140.115.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA22255 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:25:31 -0400 Received: from kctbjuqk (ts1-30.mcmsys.com [207.140.115.60]) by mcmsys.com (8.9.0.Beta5/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id HAA13381 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:25:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199806021225.HAA13381@mcmsys.com> From: "Mike Ayres" To: Subject: Re: Australian CDI kits READ THIS Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:24:20 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does any one know of a state side CDI kits? I have a twin cylinder motorcycle with twin ignition I need to replace the transistor switching system with a true 300 - 400 volt CDI. I would like to have electronic spark advance and tac output. THANKS ---------- > From: Darryn Watson > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Australian CDI kits READ THIS > Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 5:07 AM > > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:52:42 +1000 , you wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >There is no CDI kit in the June 98 edition of Silicon Chip. There is > >however a rehash of the high energy electronic ignition system > >originally from May 88 that uses the MC3334P chip and switches via an > >MJH10012 transistor. The new design allows you to put a trigger in from > >dual points, hall effect or reluctor and also has a tach signal. > > > >I have the article at work if anyone wants further info. > SORRY !!!!!!!!!!!!! > > After reading the June 98 SC and looking closer at the ad its not the > same kit OOPS > > If the numbers are above 10 for the CDI I could still get a better > price if anyone is interested > > Its only about $10 less for 1-9 units wholesale > > Darryn > > BTW > With the CDI I had trouble getting it to work with my VDO Tacho. I > needed the extra little circuit as shown in the circuit diagrams From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 09:30:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23205 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:30:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23201 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:30:54 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp33-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.82]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07841 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:27:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3573FF56.169C@huron.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:34:14 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Density of Gasoline? References: <004e01bd8e20$b0ebe830$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu All this discussion is great, but from what I've seen, nobody has answered the poor guy's question. Talk about beating around a bush!!!! Gasoline has a specific gravity range, by definition, of .629 to .667 Since water weighs 1 gramm per cc, gasoline weighs from 629 to 667 Mg per cc, or 629 to 667 G per Litre. At 2.2 lb/Kg and 1.05 US quarts per Litre you now have all the necesary information to calculate density at from 5.81 to 6.16 lb per US Gallon. Oh, one more bit of information - 5 US quarts = 1 Imperial Gallon, in case the imperial measure is required. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 09:51:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23486 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:51:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from server.eugenenet.com (root@www.eugenenet.com [207.109.246.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23482 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:51:34 -0400 Received: from streetrodframes.com (ppp29.pm3.clipper.net [207.109.253.177]) by server.eugenenet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA22387 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:54:37 -0700 Message-ID: <357402D5.CA73FE06@streetrodframes.com> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 06:49:10 -0700 From: JE Messler Organization: Messler Products Company X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Switch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gentlemen, I would like to build a switch that would receive a signal from a VSS used on General Motors transmissions. This switch, a 4 pulse model, would activate the torque converter lock up solenoid on a TH2004R transmission. I would like to be able to program the lock up speed to a specific mph. Could someone in your group help me with this? Jim Messler Messler Products Company http://www.streetrodframes.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 10:15:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24000 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:15:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from srv.net (snake.srv.net [199.104.81.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23996 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:15:08 -0400 Received: from ras526.srv.net (ras526.srv.net [205.180.127.26]) by srv.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA18911 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:15:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199806021415.IAA18911@srv.net> From: "John C. Lagerquist" To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Date: Tue, 02 Jun 98 08:14:40 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.91 For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Australian CDI kits READ THIS Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I may have found a transformer company in the US who will wind transformers for CDI for a reasonable price ( about $35.00 ea.). I will post when I know more if there is any interest. On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:24:20 -0500, Mike Ayres wrote: >Does any one know of a state side CDI kits? >I have a twin cylinder motorcycle with twin ignition I need to replace the >transistor switching system with a true 300 - 400 volt CDI. >I would like to have electronic spark advance and tac output. John C. Lagerquist (vision_a@srv.net) Design Engineer Control Vision, Inc. #include From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 10:39:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24388 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:39:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24383 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:39:15 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-33.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.51]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id KAA20875 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:38:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Switch Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:40:31 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8e34$64bd19c0$1c198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: JE Messler Subject: Switch >Gentlemen, >I would like to build a switch that would receive a signal from a VSS >used on General Motors transmissions. This switch, a 4 pulse model, >would activate the torque converter lock up solenoid on a TH2004R >transmission. I would like to be able to program the lock up speed to a >specific mph. >Could someone in your group help me with this? >Jim Messler B&M makes a kit for refitting 700R4 that does exactly that. TCI has a similiar kit but uses a vacuum switch and 3-4th gear switch. HTH Bruce From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 10:51:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24588 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:51:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net (sweden-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24583 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:50:58 -0400 Received: from earthlink.net (pool047-max3.gg-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.143.147]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA01928 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3574112F.FF5A9BEE@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 07:50:23 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Density of Gasoline? References: <004e01bd8e20$b0ebe830$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> <3573FF56.169C@huron.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Clare, Clare Snyder wrote: > All this discussion is great, but from what I've seen, nobody has > answered the poor guy's question. Talk about beating around a bush!!!! Actually, somebody did: "Jack", aka goflo@pacbell.net. He listed the density ranges (in gm/ml) listed in the Bosch Automotive Handbook. But as the originator of the query, I thank you for providing the additional information. I didn't respond to Jack's reply with a "thanks", not wanting to waste bandwidth, but perhaps in retrospect, I should have. -- Best, Michael McBroom From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 10:56:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24716 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:56:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24712 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:56:56 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA29304 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:56:43 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion (BMW) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 07:57:46 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <359511cd.39283859@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <20D94C456FF@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <20D94C456FF@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id KAA24713 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:05:01 GMT0BST, "Martin Hill" wrote: >Have you tried BMW coils. There are single coils available for those >which sit directly on top of the plug. On the top are three >connections, outside two for primary, middle one for secondary. Not >sure if you have looked at these already, apologies if you have. No, I haven't. Could you mention a donor vehicle or is that needed (maybe they're all the same)? I presume you're refering to autos, not bikes, right? I'll wander over to the dealer today and have a look. Meanwhile, if a particular car model comes to mind, lemme know, he? Gar P.S. Not tryna look a gift horse in the mouth, but those "squat ontop" coils would make the HV connection more difficult, but at this point I can't be too picky, it seems. Sigh. From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 10:57:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24722 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:57:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net (sweden-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24718 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:57:00 -0400 Received: from earthlink.net (pool047-max3.gg-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.143.147]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA05754 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 07:57:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35741299.B1BDA4C8@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 07:56:25 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Finale' and then some (long, trust me) References: <35c45cff.85021281@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <3.0.3.32.19980602200853.0075c2e8@southern.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike Morrin wrote: > At 23:52 1/06/98 -0700, Orin Eman wrote: > >There are a few options that can be set - like who can post (list > >members only or anyone) and whether replies to to the list or the > >sender. The current settings were from general consensus in > >the past... Maybe that consensus has changed? > Personally I prefer replies to sender. What modern email package does not > have a reply to all button? Unfortunately, Netscape's mail utility is apparently semi-brain-dead in this department. "All" to netscape means 'All recipients', so if you click on this selection, messages do not get sent to the sender and the list the way they would in a newsgroup, for example -- they just get sent to the list. You can't even click on the sender's email address to send a reply to the person -- Netscape sees it as the list's address. BUT if you (right) click on the sender's address to add it to your address book, it sees it correctly. Go figure. -- Best, Michael McBroom Visit the Volvo Performance Site: '87 745T 123k http://mcbrooms.com/volvo '88 765T 164k From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 11:06:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA24979 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:06:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24970 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:06:08 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA29529 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:06:09 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 08:07:12 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35961441.39911453@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <3596fbae.60108390@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <3573BEF4.5213@pronet.net.au> In-Reply-To: <3573BEF4.5213@pronet.net.au> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id LAA24972 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:59:32 +1000, David Chambers wrote: >Only strange bit is i cant measure any continuity between any of the >secondarys but i have had it giving sparks? Ah HAH, that confirms my suspicion that maybe ALL the Nissan coils have that "oddity". I mentioned yesterday looking at a REAL nice per-plug coil, but it also had to DC continuity to the secondary. Whatever they're doin inside there, them tain't gonna work for ION. Sad really; nice looking coils. Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 11:23:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25584 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:23:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from nottingham.ac.uk (pat.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.40.194]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA25576 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:22:55 -0400 Received: from ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk [128.243.169.194] by nottingham.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0ygstq-0000Aa-00; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:22:54 +0100 Received: from EAN2/SpoolDir by ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk (Mercury 1.32); 2 Jun 98 16:23:02 GMT0BST Received: from SpoolDir by EAN2 (Mercury 1.32); 2 Jun 98 16:22:55 GMT0BST From: "Martin Hill" Organization: Mech Eng, University of Nottingham To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:22:46 GMT0BST MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Coils for Ion (BMW) X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Martin Hill" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Message-ID: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm afraid I don't know which vehicle they are off. I do know they are BMW, from a car. On the top of the coil it has written: BREMI 118 56T Hope this helps. Martin > > >Have you tried BMW coils. There are single coils available for those > >which sit directly on top of the plug. On the top are three > >connections, outside two for primary, middle one for secondary. Not > >sure if you have looked at these already, apologies if you have. > > No, I haven't. Could you mention a donor vehicle or is that needed > (maybe they're all the same)? I presume you're refering to autos, not > bikes, right? I'll wander over to the dealer today and have a look. > Meanwhile, if a particular car model comes to mind, lemme know, he? > > Gar > > P.S. Not tryna look a gift horse in the mouth, but those "squat ontop" > coils would make the HV connection more difficult, but at this point I > can't be too picky, it seems. Sigh. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 11:35:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25846 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:35:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25840 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:35:45 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA467 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:35:46 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ION-related IGN Comments & Coil Quest Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 08:36:49 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <359716ba.40544062@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id LAA25841 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:03:16 -0700 (PDT), T Hergen wrote: > ||o-------to plug >primary ||o > ||o >Bat+ -----o||o > o||o > o||o secondary > ---o||o > | ||o > | ||o > | ||o----- > | | > x----------| > | > | > To Points (or ignition module) > >Is this correct for most common inductive style ignitions? I'd say this is most UNcommon; I'd like to know what systems actually use this connection scheme today. If it exists at all, I'd say it's WAY in the minority. >Some of the posts seem to indicate that the primary and secondary have the >Bat+ terminal in common. >... >Does anyone know which is "right" (maybe both are depending on the >application) 1) secondary has Bat+ in common with primary or 2) secondary >has points side in common with primary? ALL of the coils I'm familiar with use the +BAT as common; I don't know of any that fit the description of (2), but hey whatawino? A coil terminal these days that has the + mark on it is meant to go to +BAT, and that terminal IS the common for secondary and primary inside the coil. Secondly, I also don't know of any coils that use the frame/core as a conductor, so measuring from a mounting hole or sumpin to any of the connectors really shouldn't show a circuit. The core is really always a bad choice as a conductor, since it's composed of piles of laminated sheet steel usually, and sometimes for assembly, the core pieces aren't even one continuous piece of steel, and they don't normally have to create a good electrical circuit, just a good magnetic one. Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 11:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26436 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:57:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26431 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:57:40 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA1303 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:57:40 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Australian CDI kits READ THIS Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 08:58:44 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <359a1f0c.42674578@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806021415.IAA18911@srv.net> In-Reply-To: <199806021415.IAA18911@srv.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id LAA26432 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 02 Jun 98 08:14:40 , "John C. Lagerquist" wrote: >I may have found a transformer company in the US who will wind >transformers for CDI for a reasonable price ( about $35.00 ea.). Yeah but, guys guys, how ya gonna source oneOthem 5yrs from now? Or pass along your design to posterity, when it's based on custom coils. I'm just SURE we can find an automotive one if we keep looking. (Well, LAST week I was SURE, now I'm only "sure". heh). Gar P.S. If you're by any chance actually refering to the transformer used in the CDI inverter, THAT coil is dirt simple to wind yerself, and all the parts come in the kit. On the other hand, heh, winding yerself a HV coil that'll take 10A in the primary, and yield 40KV in the secondary, is no mean feat, and must be insulation-designed vewy cawefuwy to keep the HV from bleeding all over the place. I guess the objection to a custom coil applies to the one inside the CDI inverter, too, except that a 12V-to-300/400V pulse transformer for operating around 20KHz probably wouldn't be all that hard to find a substitute for. Specialty HV coils, that's another story entirely. From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 13:04:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA27747 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:04:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27743 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:04:05 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA4242 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:04:04 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion (BMW) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 10:05:07 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id NAA27744 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:22:46 GMT0BST, "Martin Hill" wrote: >I'm afraid I don't know which vehicle they are off. I do know they >are BMW, from a car. On the top of the coil it has written: > >BREMI >118 56T > >Hope this helps. Hey Martin. Say, I forgot to mention/ask this of ya before, but ericS awhile ago mentioned the Bosch coils (some, all?) have an internal gap in them for HV open circuit protection, a nice idea BTW. I realize in my response to him wayBackWhen, that I misunderstood what he said. He said this gap was "in parallel" with the HV terminal, meaning IF no plug was there, the spark would terminate to gnd via this internal gap, rather than overvoltage the coil, but I THOT at the time this meant there'd be some DC continuity problems, but now I realize that was wrong. But just to be sure, since you have the coil in your possession, when you get a chance could you confirm a DC path from one secondary terminal to the other? Thanks. I hope to do same at the dealers, assuming I can find that coil, but if they don't have stock, it'd sure be good to know the result. As a result of my brainfart, I'd just figured the Bosch coils were a loss for ION, but NOW I need to go back and reconsider their "menu" of tasty coils. Hee. On my way over to the BMW dealer shortly. Hope they're in a good mood for this oddball quest. It takes a certain kinda parts guy to wanna help out on these weird projects. When ya find em, they can be a real treasure. Also gonna look at the Mits coil; maybe I'll get lucky. On the same sorta issue, I'd sure LOVE to know what Nissan is doing internal to their coils that blocks DC continuity. Maybe SteveMax the Nissanman can find out. Real curious about that. Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 13:26:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28032 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:26:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from UPIMSSMTPUSR06 (smtp.email.msn.com [207.68.143.178]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28027 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:26:36 -0400 Received: from default - 208.254.24.198 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:26:16 -0700 Message-ID: <004001bd8e4b$90888780$c618fed0@default> From: "H. J. Zivnak" To: Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:25:17 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Coils for Ion >I DID, but they're over in Oz, and I WOULD like to find a coil that has >a donor car findable in the US. SomeOthem coils make me think they could >be some Commode specials (hee, sorry mates, I couldn't pass it up), or >whatever them cars are called they make down there under GM license. > I was Holden my water soooo long, I was thinkin of the Commode too! >Just that I woulda thot this cain't be THIS hard in the US?? Argh, >gnash. Man, if I could only get somethin like that GM SmartCoil, without >the "smarts".> >Gar I had a nightmare last night. I dreamt that it was the 70s again and working on my 76 El Camino 350 with HEI that was about to make a Ford man outta me. (Those things were famous for arcing through the rotor to the advance weights and leaving you dead on the road with no warning whatsoever.) I had put the coil in place in the cap, pushed the terminals through the connector body, and then tightening the 4 screws that held it to the cap, making sure that the 2 screws that held the black wire from the coil and the one the connector were tight so they have a good connection.........black wire from the coil??? Went to the local autoparts, Fluked a Borg Warner E 42 P and the resistance between the red and yellow wires of the primary is 1.2 ohms and the resistance between that black wire and the HT terminal is 8.41k. This coil is open frame and has 3 wires (red, yellow, black) coming out of it for whatever type of terminal floats your boat, and a HT "pad" that is intended to contact the distributor cap's rotor carbon through a spring. Looks like you could solder a solid secondary wire directly to it, or rig a terminal to it without to much effort. By the way, the price of this coil was $36.72 brand spanking new. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. HTH, Joe From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 13:54:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28445 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:54:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28441 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:54:42 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id KAA69396; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:54:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion In-Reply-To: <004001bd8e4b$90888780$c618fed0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, H. J. Zivnak wrote: > > Went to the local autoparts, Fluked a Borg Warner E 42 P and the resistance > between the red and yellow wires of the primary is 1.2 ohms and the > resistance between that black wire and the HT terminal is 8.41k. > > This coil is open frame and has 3 wires (red, yellow, black) coming out of FWIW, I just rechecked the new, remote mount version of this coil, PN 1115315 etc etc and get the same readings. All primary connectors read low ohms between them and there is about 8.5K between primary and secondary terminals From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 14:46:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA29171 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:46:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@frapp.wolfe.net [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29167 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:46:50 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (root@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA04338 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 11:46:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id KAA16484 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806021753.KAA16484@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Coils for Ion (BMW) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:53:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> from "garfield@pilgrimhouse.com" at Jun 2, 98 10:05:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Say, I forgot to mention/ask this of ya before, but ericS awhile ago > mentioned the Bosch coils (some, all?) have an internal gap in them for > HV open circuit protection, a nice idea BTW. I realize in my response to > him wayBackWhen, that I misunderstood what he said. He said this gap was > "in parallel" with the HV terminal, meaning IF no plug was there, the > spark would terminate to gnd via this internal gap, rather than > overvoltage the coil, but I THOT at the time this meant there'd be some > DC continuity problems, but now I realize that was wrong. But just to be > sure, since you have the coil in your possession, when you get a chance > could you confirm a DC path from one secondary terminal to the other? > Thanks. I hope to do same at the dealers, assuming I can find that coil, > but if they don't have stock, it'd sure be good to know the result. The Bosch coil on my car is spec'd at 5-9k secondary. Not isolated though. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 15:03:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA29429 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:03:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29424 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:03:22 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA8909 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:03:09 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:04:13 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35a54bc1.54119328@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id PAA29425 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 10:54:42 -0700 (PDT), Jim Davies wrote: >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, H. J. Zivnak wrote: > >> Went to the local autoparts, Fluked a Borg Warner E 42 P and the resistance >> between the red and yellow wires of the primary is 1.2 ohms and the >> resistance between that black wire and the HT terminal is 8.41k. >> >> This coil is open frame and has 3 wires (red, yellow, black) coming out of > >FWIW, I just rechecked the new, remote mount version of this coil, PN >1115315 etc etc and get the same readings. All primary connectors read >low ohms between them and there is about 8.5K between primary and >secondary terminals Hey Joe, hey Jim. Yeah, them guys REALLY threw us a sinkerball when they took those internal HEI coils (which DO have all the connections) and made their "external" equivalent. Tain't the same beast anymore. Phooey! Well, not to worry, check my other post on same subject, I think I have a candidate but it's not much better in terms of supply source than a motorcycle coil, methinks (it's the Mitsubishi coil). Sigh. Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 15:13:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA29607 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:13:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from UPIMSSMTPUSR03 (smtp.email.msn.com [207.68.143.159]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29603 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:13:43 -0400 Received: from default - 208.254.24.140 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:13:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bd8e5a$79898b60$8c18fed0@default> From: "H. J. Zivnak" To: Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:13:05 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Coils for Ion > > >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, H. J. Zivnak wrote: > >> >> Went to the local autoparts, Fluked a Borg Warner E 42 P and the resistance >> between the red and yellow wires of the primary is 1.2 ohms and the >> resistance between that black wire and the HT terminal is 8.41k. >> >> This coil is open frame and has 3 wires (red, yellow, black) coming out of > >FWIW, I just rechecked the new, remote mount version of this coil, PN >1115315 etc etc and get the same readings. All primary connectors read >low ohms between them and there is about 8.5K between primary and >secondary terminals > This coil is open between the primary and secondary. I thot we were looking for a coil with an isolated secondary. Joe From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 15:14:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA29632 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:14:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA29628 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:14:38 -0400 Received: from (oroboros.demon.co.uk) [158.152.100.96] by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0ygwVv-0003JL-00; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:14:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:48:00 +0100 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Chris Morriss Subject: Lotus (GM) Ignition module. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Can anybody help me with the connections/information of the ignition module from the FWD Lotus Elan? It's one of those GM units with two double-ended coils sitting on top of the electronics module. There are three connectors to the module. As far as I can see, these characters are written on the unit. 1049 9E04 4418 Some of these characters are a bit faint so one or two of the letters may be wrong. Thanks for any help. -- Chris Morriss From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 15:24:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA29912 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:24:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA29907 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:24:32 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp33-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.82]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26536; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:20:47 -0400 Message-ID: <35745247.7B54@huron.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:28:07 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: bodhi@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Finale' and then some (long, trust me) References: <35c45cff.85021281@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <3.0.3.32.19980602200853.0075c2e8@southern.co.nz> <35741299.B1BDA4C8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Michael McBroom wrote: snip-- > > > Personally I prefer replies to sender. What modern email package does not > > have a reply to all button? > > Unfortunately, Netscape's mail utility is apparently semi-brain-dead in > this department. "All" to netscape means 'All recipients', so if you > click on this selection, messages do not get sent to the sender and the > list the way they would in a newsgroup, for example -- they just get > sent to the list. You can't even click on the sender's email address to > send a reply to the person -- Netscape sees it as the list's address. > BUT if you (right) click on the sender's address to add it to your > address book, it sees it correctly. Go figure. > > -- > Best, > > Michael McBroom Visit the Volvo Performance Site: > '87 745T 123k http://mcbrooms.com/volvo > '88 765T 164k I just clicked on your address, pressed edit, copy, re:mail, file, edit,copy, paste to cc, and voila - mail all - including you. Not automatic, but not difficult either. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 15:29:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30055 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:29:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30051 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:29:15 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp33-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.82]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26738 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:25:25 -0400 Message-ID: <3574535D.64@huron.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:32:45 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ION-related IGN Comments & Coil Quest References: <359716ba.40544062@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:03:16 -0700 (PDT), T Hergen > wrote: > > > ||o-------to plug > >primary ||o > > ||o > >Bat+ -----o||o > > o||o > > o||o secondary > > ---o||o > > | ||o > > | ||o > > | ||o----- > > | | > > x----------| > > | > > | > > To Points (or ignition module) > > > >Is this correct for most common inductive style ignitions? > > I'd say this is most UNcommon; I'd like to know what systems actually > use this connection scheme today. If it exists at all, I'd say it's WAY > in the minority. > > >Some of the posts seem to indicate that the primary and secondary have the > >Bat+ terminal in common. > >... > >Does anyone know which is "right" (maybe both are depending on the > >application) 1) secondary has Bat+ in common with primary or 2) secondary > >has points side in common with primary? > > ALL of the coils I'm familiar with use the +BAT as common; I don't know > of any that fit the description of (2), but hey whatawino? A coil > terminal these days that has the + mark on it is meant to go to +BAT, > and that terminal IS the common for secondary and primary inside the > coil. > > Secondly, I also don't know of any coils that use the frame/core as a > conductor, so measuring from a mounting hole or sumpin to any of the > connectors really shouldn't show a circuit. The core is really always a > bad choice as a conductor, since it's composed of piles of laminated > sheet steel usually, and sometimes for assembly, the core pieces aren't > even one continuous piece of steel, and they don't normally have to > create a good electrical circuit, just a good magnetic one. > > Gar Just found a Motorcycle coil today that uses the pole-piece for ground!! Only problem is, it uses the same point for primary and secondary ground - feeds the coil through the points. Darn - just proved the core IS used for ground on some coils, but then found out it doesn't do us any good!! -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 15:39:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30377 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:39:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk ([193.114.248.81]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30355 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:39:17 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p42.scotland.net [148.176.232.42]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21480 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:39:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35745550.7663771C@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:41:04 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: DTA UK made EMS experiences ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anybody tried the DTA fuel & ignition aftermarket ECU made here in the UK. From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 15:43:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30529 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:43:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30525 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:43:20 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA10538 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:43:19 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:44:22 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> In-Reply-To: <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id PAA30526 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 10:05:07 -0700, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:22:46 GMT0BST, "Martin Hill" wrote: >>I do know they are BMW, from a car. On the top of the coil it has written: >As a result of my brainfart, I'd just figured the Bosch coils were a >loss for ION... Well, it WAS a brainfart maybe, but it just turned out to be right, accidentally. I checked the most common coils for BMW, and they do indeed have NO DC continuity between the secondary terminals! Maybe there IS a gap in series, and it either arcs to the plug or to a gnd shunt, if the plug connection is open. In any case, I'd say if this is uniformly a Bosch characteristic, then they like the Nissan coils are out. Crumbs. They also were nice and small. BUT, I DID also go over to check out the Mitsubishi coils, and they will indeed DO just fine!!! They do have fem HV outlets, but I can deal with that. Good news/bad news, tho. First the good news: they're small, and the ones for '91-later have TWO such coils mounted on a steel bracket, but the coils ARE on separate frames/cores, so they could easily be separated (not so on the '89--mid-90 ones). The best part is the primary terminals ARE threaded terminals, AND they have a nice little protective boot that covers the terminals up, but still has a probe hole made so you can meter the coil without removing the boot. Well thot-out. Now, the "bad" news: you cannot buy the coils except in these premounted pairs, and the pair is $180 list! Yow. Although they were used over a goodly span of years, '91-'94, that's still not alot of cars or a very good supply source for elevating these guys to "the ION coil-of-choice", but I'm gettin weary of wandering all over the place groping for coils, so I think I'll snag a couple of these, either from a yard if I can, or pop for the whole monty and get a pair new ($owwee$). I know Mits are popular cars amongst the nouveau riche, but doesn't really make certain that 10yrs from now, I'll be able to replace them coils in my airplane. Sigh. Oh Ford or GM, where ARE you when we need you!? Maybe a way for me to rationalize the expense is to observe that IF they required a weatherpack special connector on the primary leads, I'd be out another $20-30 say, and at $180/pair or $90 for a coil that obviates the need for a connector, maybe it's not THAT bad. Arr arr arrroooo! Oh well, cain't have everything. Anyway, one way or tother, I guess I can go about my eXperimental business now. They'll mount nice, and the only worry really is out in the future some years. The most pressing issue besides them meeting the electrical reqmts is having easy/robust mounting/connector features, which these DO, so I'm ready to at least call the quest off for the duration of the eXperimenting. Once we have ION solidly running, we can rethink what we wanna do about the coils, and maybe in the intervening time, some better ones will surface. As fate and serendipity would have it, this coil was suggested by none other than Walt the Warp-In ION afficianado, who only a few days ago just popped in, and was asking "what's an ION?" and "how do you spell 'Patent'". B) So I guess the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but both to the guy that gets lucky, and just stumbles upon the treasure. Heh. Whadahoot! Walt, definitely consider buying some lotto tickets. Gar P.S. If y'all wanna touch the jewelry, the Mitsubishi part no. for these "pair of coils on a bracket" (sounds kinda like corndog-ona-stick, don't it? B) is: MD158956 '91-'94 Mitsubishi Eclipse 2.0L (maybe Gallant as well) The part no. Walt gave was for the earlier ones that have two coils wound on one integral core/frame. These are better cuz they can be separated. I s'pose either would do, tho. That earlier part no. he gave was: MD126461, and if you can stand the siamese twin setup, these ARE a tad cheaper too. About $130 for the twins. From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 16:00:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA31123 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:00:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA31118 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:00:39 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp33-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.82]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA26536; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:20:47 -0400 Message-ID: <35745247.7B54@huron.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:28:07 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: bodhi@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Finale' and then some (long, trust me) References: <35c45cff.85021281@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <3.0.3.32.19980602200853.0075c2e8@southern.co.nz> <35741299.B1BDA4C8@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Michael McBroom wrote: snip-- > > > Personally I prefer replies to sender. What modern email package does not > > have a reply to all button? > > Unfortunately, Netscape's mail utility is apparently semi-brain-dead in > this department. "All" to netscape means 'All recipients', so if you > click on this selection, messages do not get sent to the sender and the > list the way they would in a newsgroup, for example -- they just get > sent to the list. You can't even click on the sender's email address to > send a reply to the person -- Netscape sees it as the list's address. > BUT if you (right) click on the sender's address to add it to your > address book, it sees it correctly. Go figure. > > -- > Best, > > Michael McBroom Visit the Volvo Performance Site: > '87 745T 123k http://mcbrooms.com/volvo > '88 765T 164k I just clicked on your address, pressed edit, copy, re:mail, file, edit,copy, paste to cc, and voila - mail all - including you. Not automatic, but not difficult either. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 16:50:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA31937 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:50:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA31933 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:50:29 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-27.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.96]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id QAA00704 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:49:30 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 4D IAC motor Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:51:47 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8e68$420e0540$60198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: 4D IAC motor >Anybody know definitevely if the IAC motor as used on Holley's 4d/di is >interchangeable with any OEM type? Mine seems to be faulty -- it as often >as not sticks and won't pull idle down from 1500 rpms or so. It's covered >under warranty, but there is a two -three week wait for a new one. Since >it's only 25 bucks or so, so I'd like to just pop over to the local >Schuck's and pick up a suitable replacement. > >Barring that, I'll get the pintle into a suitable position and disconnect >it until the new one arrives. >Thanks, >Mike J. > There are several different IAC motors that gm uses, if ya can find a parts house with a Standard Motor Products "Illustrated Parts Guide" you can probably match the pixs to get the right mounting, and pintle design. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 17:12:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA32187 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:12:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA32182 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:12:26 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA14025 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:12:27 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:13:30 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35ab6a49.61935000@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <000401bd8e5a$79898b60$8c18fed0@default> In-Reply-To: <000401bd8e5a$79898b60$8c18fed0@default> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id RAA32183 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 12:13:05 -0700, "H. J. Zivnak" wrote: >This coil is open between the primary and secondary. I thot we were looking >for a coil with an isolated secondary. Yes, we ARE. But you've got the internal coil, which DOES indeed have the windings the way we want them, but isn't so great for mounting and especially the HV connection. Jim was just saying that when they packaged these coils for external use, they tied the two together, messing with our minds, and missing the mark as far as ION usage is concerned. Hope that clears up the seeming confusion. Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 17:20:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA32306 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (brpt-sh3-port63.snet.net [204.60.24.63]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA32302 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:20:29 -0400 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from me (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA00248; Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:20:29 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:20:29 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199806022120.RAA00248@webserver> Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980602173348.007bcd40@xephic.dynip.com> X-Sender: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:33:48 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Switch In-Reply-To: <01bd8e34$64bd19c0$1c198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >B&M makes a kit for refitting 700R4 that does exactly that. >TCI has a similiar kit but uses a vacuum switch and 3-4th gear >switch. That's certainly easier than what I was going to suggest... a LM9400 configured as a Freq to V converter, and OP Amp to set the switch voltage, driving a relay. :) Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car - From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 17:58:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00104 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:58:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mn26hp12.honeywell.com (dns.honeywell.com [129.17.254.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00100 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:58:07 -0400 Received: from milan.hwcae.az.Honeywell.COM by mn26hp12.honeywell.com with SMTP (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA237394629; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:57:10 -0500 Received: from pontiac.hwcae.az.Honeywell.COM by milan.hwcae.az.Honeywell.COM (3.2S/5.65b) with SMTP id AA10662; Tue, 2 Jun 98 15:55:22 -0600 Posted-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:53:32 -0700 Message-Id: <3574745C.11D6@hwcae.honeywell.com> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 14:53:32 -0700 From: Steve Jameson X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/715) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: CONVERTING MECHANICAL FUEL INJ TO EFI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I HAVE A 1955 CHEVY WITH A L88 427 FOR POWER. I WANTED TO GET A CROWER MECHANICAL FUEL INJECTION UNIT FOR THE STREET BUT I"VE BEEN TOLD THAT ITS A BIG PROBLEM UNIT FOR THE STREET. SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF I'LL HAVE ANY PROBLEMS CONVERTING THE CROWER UNIT OVER TO EFI AS FAR AS COST OF PARTS VERSES BUYING AN AFTER MARKET EFI UNIT THAT WON`T LOOK HALF AS GOOD AS THE CROWER RUNNER TUBES STICKING THROUGH THE HOOD. I CAN DO ALL THE MACHINE WORK. From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 18:09:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA00204 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:09:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from chexchange1.sidley.com (chexchange1.sidley.com [198.232.35.207]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA00199 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:09:24 -0400 Received: by chexchange1.sidley.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:07:26 -0500 Message-ID: <43DAFE17DA2ED1119E26006008051CEE0148BE20@chexchange1.sidley.com> From: "Dupree, Robert A." To: "DIY_EFI (E-mail)" , "Quattro List (E-mail)" Subject: Missing URL Billy Graham Engines - Minor List Content Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:07:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Someone was kind enough to post me the URL for an engine re-seller. It was for Billy Graham engines. Whoever it was, could you please re-send. TIA, Bob Dupree From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 19:12:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA00994 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:12:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00990 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:12:34 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-16.brokersys.com [209.113.60.17]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11453 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:15:43 -0500 Message-ID: <35748753.3BD33DF7@brokersys.com> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:14:27 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > BUT, I DID also go over to check out the Mitsubishi coils, and they will > indeed DO just fine!!! They do have fem HV outlets, but I can deal with > that. Good news/bad news, tho. First the good news: they're small, and > the ones for '91-later have TWO such coils mounted on a steel bracket, > but the coils ARE on separate frames/cores, so they could easily be > separated (not so on the '89--mid-90 ones). The best part is the primary > terminals ARE threaded terminals, AND they have a nice little protective > boot that covers the terminals up, but still has a probe hole made so > you can meter the coil without removing the boot. Well thot-out. > > Now, the "bad" news: you cannot buy the coils except in these premounted > pairs, and the pair is $180 list! Yow. Although they were used over a > goodly span of years, '91-'94, that's still not alot of cars or a very > good supply source for elevating these guys to "the ION coil-of-choice", > but I'm gettin weary of wandering all over the place groping for coils, > so I think I'll snag a couple of these, either from a yard if I can, or > pop for the whole monty and get a pair new ($owwee$). I know Mits are > popular cars amongst the nouveau riche, but doesn't really make certain > that 10yrs from now, I'll be able to replace them coils in my airplane. > Sigh. Oh Ford or GM, where ARE you when we need you!? .... > Oh well, cain't have everything. Anyway, one way or tother, I guess I > can go about my eXperimental business now. They'll mount nice, and the > only worry really is out in the future some years. The most pressing > issue besides them meeting the electrical reqmts is having easy/robust > mounting/connector features, which these DO, so I'm ready to at least > call the quest off for the duration of the eXperimenting. Once we have > ION solidly running, we can rethink what we wanna do about the coils, > and maybe in the intervening time, some better ones will surface. > .... > > Gar > > P.S. If y'all wanna touch the jewelry, the Mitsubishi part no. for these > "pair of coils on a bracket" (sounds kinda like corndog-ona-stick, don't > it? B) is: > MD158956 '91-'94 Mitsubishi Eclipse 2.0L (maybe Gallant as well) > The part no. Walt gave was for the earlier ones that have two coils > wound on one integral core/frame. These are better cuz they can be > separated. I s'pose either would do, tho. That earlier part no. he gave > was: > MD126461, and if you can stand the siamese twin setup, these ARE a > tad cheaper too. About $130 for the twins. ...a tad more info as you're winding down the search. Chris, a friendly parts guy at a recycling yard (AAA Small Car World, FT Worth TX) says he might have several of the Mits coils. I gave him the part #'s and will here back from him in a day or two. According to him, the Eclipse is the same car as the Eagle Talon and Dodge Laser. Walt PS I guess I have never introduced myself... I used to work in the 'gray market' auto import business in the eighties. I designed and built the controlers to interface oxygen sensors with whatever fuel system the car had K-jet,L-jet,Motronic etc. It was a great job. Some of the more bizarre early experiments: Building a variable voltage supply (controlled by the O2 sensor) for the electric fuel pump...Bad idea. Disabling 4 evenly spaced injectors on a V12 for~30sec during cold start to use them as air pumps. Worked great, not sure about consequences to the engine though... Now I'm rebuilding Lucas electronics for Jags. It's not too exciting, but it has potential for growth. Since I stumbled onto the diy_efi group I have started to ask myself a lot of 'what if' questions again! So I look forward to following this ION project and will try to avoid the 'how many inches to a foot' questions that someone mentioned. Here's my web site: www.brokersys.com/~corsaro From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 19:21:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA01167 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:21:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01162 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:21:22 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (blgspm301-004.mcn.net [208.26.146.4]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA07596 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:21:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3574857D.57CFC862@mcn.net> Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:06:37 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ION-related IGN Comments & Coil Quest References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu T Hergen wrote: > > Shannen, > > I apologize for replying so late (I was out of town)... Regarding the > remote mounted coil in my GM vortec 4.3L V6 S10, it's a '92. I had a > chance to check the GM manual on the motor, and a coil diagnostics chart > indicates there should be no resistance between any coil terminal and the > frame (I think that answers my question -- please let me know if you think > this is incorrect). A few measurements with an ohm meter showed it looked > like the common three terminal coils. > Yes, your coil is tied together at the BAT terminal. My notes and manual from one of the GM training classes said that the external coil was the same as internal, but as Garfield has found out, that's untrue. It's surprising that I've never been in a position where I had to check that before... Of course, GM service literature is never incorrect. ; ) Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 19:54:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA01583 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:54:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA01579 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:54:04 -0400 Received: from server1 from [207.136.54.205] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.237) with smtp for sender: <351w@airmail.net> id ; Tue, 2 Jun 98 18:54:03 -0500 (CDT) From: "Raymond Brantley" <351w@airmail.net> To: "DIY EFI List Rule" Subject: Mits. Coils Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:45:24 -0500 Message-ID: <000201bd8e80$831e48c0$cd3688cf@server1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey guys , before you run out and throw down 180.00 let me see what I can do for an aftermarket replacement. I managed an auto supply for nine years so I have a few connections.......I'll let you know quick maybe by tonight. Raymond Brantley Us lurkers come in handy every so often :>) From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 21:05:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02504 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:05:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (root@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02500 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:05:58 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du143-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.143]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta2/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA19408 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:05:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:09:06 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: CONVERTING MECHANICAL FUEL INJ TO EFI In-Reply-To: <3574745C.11D6@hwcae.honeywell.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu First off turn off the CAP LOCK! Using the Crower on the street is possible, but it will be difficult to make it all work as a drivable package. The big problem with the Crower and Hilborne units are that they are stupid, that is, not much to help dial in a fuel curve. The work great at WOT, but are much harder to get working at off idle and mid range. Not undoable, but harder. Requires a bunch of mechanical gizmos, popoff, and such. A good place to start is Kinsler Fuel Injection, they sell a bunch of parts (really expensive) but have lots of stuff for the constant flow units. The biggest problem will be placement of the EFI injectors, as the tiny ones used are quite a bit different dimensionally, and sometimes require odd connections to the fuel rails. Another spot to check is MSD Fuel systems in texas, lots of tools for makeing EFI systems. Even have the proper drill bit for the EFI injectors if you are not a good machinist ;-) Yes I'll agree, nothing looks as good as a nice polished Staggered tube injector on a BBC. I had a L88 (copy) in my 69 chevell ss, and it ran good. I had the hilborne injector, but decided that it was just too much of a hassel with the pump, problem with off idle tune, and damm, I can get an EFI system for about the same $$ today, so why not go with some technology. If you can find the space for the EFI injectors, it would be really cool. I think Kinsler injection offers some of their constant flow manifolds (like the cross ram tube BBC) with the option of EFI style, so it is not unheard of. Other conciderations might be optimal placement of the injectors, some CIS systems (I think like crower) has the injectors over the butterfly, some under. Just some rambelings! Sandy At 02:53 PM 6/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >I HAVE A 1955 CHEVY WITH A L88 427 FOR POWER. I WANTED TO GET A [snip] From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 21:51:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02996 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:51:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02992 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:51:49 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA24171 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:51:48 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:52:51 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35769e79.1166500@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <000201bd8e80$831e48c0$cd3688cf@server1> In-Reply-To: <000201bd8e80$831e48c0$cd3688cf@server1> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id VAA02993 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:45:24 -0500, "Raymond Brantley" <351w@airmail.net> wrote: >Hey guys , before you run out and throw down 180.00 let me see what I >can do for an aftermarket replacement. Just a couple tidbits first: I WAS able to quickly find a pair of Mits coils in the yards about town. I have to wait a couple days before I go get them, cuz they have to pull them, and these places won't let you near their cars! Sheesh. Second thing is I checked with NAPA to see how much their "replacement" would be, and it was only $17 less list. See, that's the trouble with lower volume parts like this; little volume, not much of an after"market". But of course these are list prices, and as RB points out, someone with connections will likely do much better. The main point is, compared to GM parts, they're a tad expensive! So, since I paid $50 for a pair of "previously owned" coils B), sight unseen (hope they're OK), I s'pose if the cost could be gotten down to say around $100 a pair new. That wouldn't be too bad. The other thang I GOTTA say, just as before is, DON'T go buying these coils as if we KNEW they were gonna work with ION. WE DON'T!! ************* I repeat: PULLEEZE DON'T go buying these coils as if we KNEW they were gonna work with ION. WE DON'T!! ************* I'm not even gonna plunk down the money for a complete set to completely run a lab rat on, until I've confirmed that they will fire OK from either an inductive module driving them, OR a CDI system like the DSE/SC design. BTW, since there is a possibility that others might wanna fly in loose formation thru this eXperiment, I thot I'd put some thots down in print on how I'm hoping/planning to proceed on this project meself. This is gonna be kinda stream-of-unconsciousness, so it'll probly be long and rambly. I have a GM lab rat that I KNOW I can gradually make ping in a nice controlled fashion (lucky me, huh?; it's had that problem from day one) by advancing the timing a tad too far. So pieceOcake as a knock source. I also have a fuel injected lab rat (the GM is NOT, sadly) that I can use to wire up one cylinder's injector to manually create misfires of one or more cycles long. So much for the guinea pigs. Now, how I says to meself, says I, do I test this tech without building a complete IGN system for ALL cylinders? Here's me plan (Sanity Check Lite on your instrument panel should be glowing bright red at this point). I'll build one ION circuit for one Mits coil, and build enough of an IGN system for that one coil, which will be triggered inductively from the normal spark wire (with a plug still attached to the wire, but NOT in the cylinder firing it, so's I don't toast the stock IGN). Thus, only this one "cylinder under test" will have the ION eyes'd IGN mini-system connected to it's real plug. Now for firing the inductive style coil setup, that's a slam dunk. All I do is build a simple trigger to take the inductive kick off a small coil wrapped around the normal/drone sparkplug wire, and fire a conventional module, like a GM 4-pin'er, hooked to this lone Mits coil. Now, on the other side of the coil, I'll need a 80-400V supply to run the ionization detection part. Hmmm, weeeeell, I can build one of those DSE/SC CDI systems, using the 12v-to-Xvolts inverter portion to provide the ionization "bias" voltage. But that's perfect, cuz then the next step is: Firing the coil as a CDI style setup, same trigger arrangement obtains, I'll use the same DSE/SC CDI system, but this time for BOTH firing the coil, as well as the power source for the ionization bias voltage, just like SAAB does theirs. Even tho touted as a multispark system, the SC CDI design really fits the bill nicely, cuz it can be set to produce only TWO sparks in rapid succession, with a very fast relaxation time after that, before we open ION's eyes, and with a simple mod, can be made to even produce only one zap if needed. And whilst firing the plug with the 300-400V for the coil, I'll just divide the inverter supply for that down adjustably, so I can try out a range of detection/bias voltages from 80-400V at the same time. Thas me plan. Anyone else wanna go along, or even tweak up the plan with improvements, say on; that's where I'm headed. The above steps don't amount to alot of money, and part of the apparatus is likely to be of lasting value, regardless of the outcome, namely the CDI IGN system. This also eliminates major mods to any of the lab rats, eliminates the expense of gambling on coils at 4-6-8X at a wack, and is sorta portable, so that you could try it out on a bunch of diff. engines to see about any "sensitivities" with diff. engines. Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 22:00:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03084 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:00:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03080 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:00:39 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA24382 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:00:38 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: CONVERTING MECHANICAL FUEL INJ TO EFI Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:01:42 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3578ace8.4861656@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> In-Reply-To: <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id WAA03081 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:09:06 -0700, Sandy wrote: >A good place to start is Kinsler Fuel >Injection, they sell a bunch of parts (really expensive) but have lots of >stuff for the constant flow units. Just a "second" on getting the Kinsler "catalogs". They also now have quite a bit of support for the EFI end of things, and their catalogs are worth the few bucks they ask for them, simply because there are LOTS of tutorial and "tricks" sidebars scattered all along their catalogs, that apply to FI in general. I learned tonsOstuff from these "catalogs". Kinda a misnomer, really. More like FI workbooks, with their parts and prices interspersed. Be sure and get BOTH catalogs. (and lemme know if there are more than two now, eh? B). Gar From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 22:22:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA03419 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:22:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from r02n02.cac.psu.edu (r02a02.cac.psu.edu [146.186.15.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA03415 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:22:31 -0400 Received: from jal239.rh.psu.edu (access-isdn1-38.oz.psu.edu [146.186.228.40]) by r02n02.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA126526 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:22:30 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980603022646.3ed7327a@email.psu.edu> X-Sender: pft101@email.psu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:26:46 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Paul Tholey Subject: GM EFI specific TPI Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu GM EFI specific I am helping in an engine swap, and would like some input. The car is an 1988 IROC. The car has a 700 tranny with the lockup eliminated. The engine is a ZZ3 with the IROC's TPI installed. The intake was upgraded with bigger runners, throttle body, and injectors. Any input for a custom chip would be nice. Looking to get all we can out of this naturally aspirated motor, yet still be streetable. TIA Paul Tholey PS- We don't mind spending money From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 22:56:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA04053 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:56:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (root@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA04048 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:56:00 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du180-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.180]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta2/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA30719 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:55:51 -0700 Message-Id: <199806030255.TAA30719@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:59:07 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: EGOR In-Reply-To: <3578ace8.4861656@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Get the Kinsler catalog! Not implying that the catalog is expensive, just the rest of their goodies ;-) I have them both I think, and they are part catalog, part CIS handbook, and the CIS one has been around for 10+ years, lots of cool old manifolds too. I like the old road race big block under hood cross ram, but at last check it was about 2k for it without injectors. Don't remember about the EFI one, but I think the CIS one was 12 bucks or so, plus you get some stickers! I did buy a test Peak and Hold injector from them, I think it was around 80 bucks or so when I was testing out the Peak and Hold drivers, so they have all the EFI stuff you might want, MSD has some good things too and the catalog (the last one I had is a few years old) had some good info on various types of injectors and other related parts, free as I recall. But now to the real reason for the wasted bandwidth - How is the EGOR stuff rolling along? All this ION jazz makes me just go out and get a 55 gallon drum and some racing fuel to eliminate the problem ;-) I think this was mentioned, but has anyone looked at motorcycle coils, I don't need to start a flame out, but they are sized right for Coil Ona Plug, have no idea on the wire configuration, but might be worth a look. I think that MSD also may make some cycle coils, but don't have any info in my books. Sandy > >Just a "second" on getting the Kinsler "catalogs". They also now have [snip] From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 23:20:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA04494 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:20:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04490 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:20:36 -0400 From: JCsDOOR@aol.com Received: from JCsDOOR@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7GQTa22301 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:20:26 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <93bd7ce3.3574c0fb@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:20:26 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 40 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu gar Most mitz. parts have a dodge mate .there are a lot o eagles a round.. Feel the need for speed ,time to go flying jim From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 23:48:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA04888 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:48:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04884 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:48:07 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XIJ25065; Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:46:16 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:32:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Message-ID: <19980602.234540.11278.3.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980601.235010.11350.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-8,10-18,21-22,24-25,30-31,36-38 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:34:32 -0700 garfield@pilgrimhouse.com writes: >On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:49:55 -0400, cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C >Drouillard) wrote: > >>What are the highest frequency components that ION will be expected to >>read (I remember seeing some mention of a typical waveform when I looked >>at the patent)? What is the inductance of a typical spark coil's >>secondary? I think you can see what I'm getting at... Is the inductive >>reactance of the coil going to be a problem? > >Well, instead of adding to the "vagueness" of the group, why don't you >try some numbers and show what you come up with? > >Gar I'd be glad to... Um... Where did I put that pesky inductance meter? Oops, I forgot. I don't have one! Does that mean that I'm not allowed to ask questions? What is the typical inductance of a spark coil? Is it on the order of a henry or so? 0.1 henries? 10 henries? What is the inupt impedance of the current sensing circuit? What does the waveform look like? I'm sure that that information is available somewhere on the web, but I haven't seen it. If someone who has that information at their fingertips can pass it to me, I'll be glad to do some calculations and post the results. The nagging though that the reactance of the coil might require some special considerations has been bugging me. I didn't have the specific information I need to do the calculations, so I tossed it out to the list for consideration. I believe that "brainstorming" is the term used for this. Ray Drouillard _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Tue Jun 2 23:58:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA05045 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:58:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA05041 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:58:31 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-21.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.90]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id XAA07806 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:57:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Pro gram ming 101 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:59:47 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8ea4$0c6a0f60$5a198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes things have been slow as fast as published matters go, due to circumstances beyond my control, but will resume in another couple of weeks. For the moment the 747 part has been on hold, but things have been moving ahead on another front. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 00:17:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05458 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:17:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05453 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:17:18 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA27813 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:17:19 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:18:22 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3585cd29.13118250@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <93bd7ce3.3574c0fb@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <93bd7ce3.3574c0fb@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id AAA05454 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:20:26 EDT, JCsDOOR@aol.com wrote: > Most mitz. parts have a dodge mate .there are a lot o eagles a round.. Yeah, so I've been hearing! Well, shut my mouth, maybe there ARE enough donor cars to go around, and keep these parts around for a while. Too bad there isn't some kinda database, where you could punch in the OEM number and find out ALL the donors for that part. Gar P.S. I'm such a fossil, them Eagles came and went without me noticing them much atoll. From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 00:22:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05638 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:22:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA05634 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:22:43 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id VAA34520; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans In-Reply-To: <3585cd29.13118250@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > Too bad there isn't some kinda database, where you could punch in the > OEM number and find out ALL the donors for that part. > Try a Hollander manual From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 00:52:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06165 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:52:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06161 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:52:49 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-21.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.90]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id AAA22524 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:51:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:54:07 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8eab$a3fa8ce0$5a198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >P.S. I'm such a fossil, them Eagles came and went without me noticing >them much atoll. > Most of America was in the same boat as you. No one noticed them, OK OK just kiddin. No worries mate Bruce Also the Standard Motor Parts Illustrated Parts Guide has not too good photos, and oem part numbers on alot of stuff. My 94 doesn't have the coils you mentioned thou, but does come in handy for $2.. From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 01:02:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA06422 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:02:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06418 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:02:05 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA28636 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:02:04 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EGOR Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:03:08 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3586cf0a.13599546@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> <199806030255.TAA30719@mail.wgn.net> In-Reply-To: <199806030255.TAA30719@mail.wgn.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id BAA06419 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:59:07 -0700, Sandy wrote: >Not implying that the catalog is expensive, just the rest of their goodies >;-) That's funny, I didn't mention them being "worth the price" as a response/retort to your comment about the parts being expensive!; I agree all that CFIorCISorWhatever ya s'pose ta call it, is real expensive. But if you want something to make you feel Kinsler's prices aren't bad, get the catalog from Hilborn themselves. Whew, even their brochures look like corporate annual reports, thick glossy/coated paper, premium photo work, etc. And wow, the prices. Beautiful stuff, but more like rare works of art than car parts. Heh. On the cover is a picture of a cast *magnesium* ram tube manifold (for a 327) that's sitting on a scale. It doesn't weigh very much, but what they don't show on the cover is that the manifold sells for over $2K (and the ram tubes are extra B)! >How is the EGOR stuff rolling along? All this ION jazz makes me just go out >and get a 55 gallon drum and some racing fuel to eliminate the problem ;-) Well, I s'pose no time like the present to give an update. I've been messing with the circuit that holds the pump off whilst the sensor warms, cuz I'm thinking I can eliminate one of the dips/chips and use a simple FET instead of the "analog switch" part I used to begin with. Secondly, I've gotta tell y'all I've been draggin my feet some, cuz of an issue that's come up over the last two weeks offlist, as a result of some technical reports Brock Fraser ran across (he works at Deere in Engine Engineering, with big engines, but their engine mgmt. system uses NTK 5-wires), and we've been corresponding in private, cuz he can't really blab to the totally public world the contents of internal Deere documents, so he's been relaying the gist of things, and it turns out the NTK sensors are reported to have a measurable sensitivity to exhaust system PRESSURE. I've hesitated to bring this up, but in hindsight, we were just discussing this yesterday, that we really needed to involve the group in the discussion, rather than hold back, cuz it's got some interesting learning kindsa things involved. Since I've now broached the subject, I'll post another message giving you a real brief synopsis, and then if Brock wants to weigh in and can say more, I'm sure he will. It's no big meltdown horrific ugly surprise, OK, so don't anyone get yer shorts all twisted up, but it DOES suggest that before I send the complete package to Frank, we'd probably better include in there a suitable pressure sensor that can be plugged into one of the two parallel bungs, so we can get an idea of how much the exhaust pressure is REALLY varying over our measurement testing range, and find out what effect if any it has. If there's even the slightest chance that differences in engine/exhaust system setup between Frank's two lab rats and the other guy with his engine and ECM box on a dyno, might yield some confusing or conflicting results during the testing, I wanna KNOW what this other variable might have to do with anything. So now I've got another meter to add to the three already on my lil EGOR test console I've made for Frank to use, and have been looking at a couple likely candidates for fairly low pressure, but fairly warm temperature, pressure transducers to hook up to this same test console. The purpose of making that for Frank is to keep him from having to set up a whole complicated set of metering devices to gather the results. This way each meter is connected into the circuit at the right place, and set up with the right scale, etc. All he has to do is plugNplay. >I think this was mentioned, but has anyone looked at motorcycle coils, I >don't need to start a flame out, but they are sized right for Coil Ona >Plug, have no idea on the wire configuration, but might be worth a look. I >think that MSD also may make some cycle coils, but don't have any info in >my books. Should be fine for some folk, I did have a look at a plausible Harley coil, but it's primary was pretty high impedance compared to the automotive ones, so I wasn't sure if the fixed-current limit modules we like to use in automotive circles was gonna work real well. Might work, I just don't wanna introduce any more variables into the mix than I absolutely have to. For my own part, I've mentioned several times now, that I wanted to find something that if I got enamoured with and it worked well with ION, I could expect to get the part 10-15yrs down the road, and bike parts change so rapidly, I wanted to stick with automotive stuff. That's when Doc suggested having a look at Harley coils, since they're liable to keep same and stick around some. But those are the only ones I've looked at, and as far as MY own purposes are concerned, I'm thru groping for coils, until I get some results with these Mits guys. Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 01:26:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07024 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:26:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07020 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:26:26 -0400 Received: from MARK (ppp-209-77-89-209.scrm01.pacbell.net [209.77.89.209]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA28760; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801bd9042$893a9100$d1594dd1@MARK> From: "Mark Romans" To: , Subject: Re: Switch Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:26:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Jim: This isn't exactly what you are looking for, BUT..... I put a 200R4 in a Jag (Along with a 350) a few years ago and in searching for an elegant but simple solution went through some old shop manuals for pre ecm cars and ended up using some diesel stuff. There is a governor pressure switch on a 200R4 and you can get pressure switches that close at a wide variety of pressures, since the governor pressure approximates 1 LB/mph I bought a 52lb pressure switch and used it as the ground for the tcc. Power was supplied through the brake switch, (Open when brakes applied), through a low vacuum switch, opened at about 2" of vacuum. TCC worked PERFECT! I just wish the 700R4 in the next Jag had a gov pressure tap too! Hope this helps. Mark. -----Original Message----- From: JE Messler To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 7:19 AM Subject: Switch >Gentlemen, >I would like to build a switch that would receive a signal from a VSS >used on General Motors transmissions. This switch, a 4 pulse model, >would activate the torque converter lock up solenoid on a TH2004R >transmission. I would like to be able to program the lock up speed to a >specific mph. >Could someone in your group help me with this? >Jim Messler >Messler Products Company >http://www.streetrodframes.com > From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 01:26:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07032 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:26:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07027 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:26:33 -0400 Received: from MARK (ppp-209-77-89-209.scrm01.pacbell.net [209.77.89.209]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id WAA28760; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801bd9042$893a9100$d1594dd1@MARK> From: "Mark Romans" To: , Subject: Re: Switch Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:26:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Jim: This isn't exactly what you are looking for, BUT..... I put a 200R4 in a Jag (Along with a 350) a few years ago and in searching for an elegant but simple solution went through some old shop manuals for pre ecm cars and ended up using some diesel stuff. There is a governor pressure switch on a 200R4 and you can get pressure switches that close at a wide variety of pressures, since the governor pressure approximates 1 LB/mph I bought a 52lb pressure switch and used it as the ground for the tcc. Power was supplied through the brake switch, (Open when brakes applied), through a low vacuum switch, opened at about 2" of vacuum. TCC worked PERFECT! I just wish the 700R4 in the next Jag had a gov pressure tap too! Hope this helps. Mark. -----Original Message----- From: JE Messler To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 7:19 AM Subject: Switch >Gentlemen, >I would like to build a switch that would receive a signal from a VSS >used on General Motors transmissions. This switch, a 4 pulse model, >would activate the torque converter lock up solenoid on a TH2004R >transmission. I would like to be able to program the lock up speed to a >specific mph. >Could someone in your group help me with this? >Jim Messler >Messler Products Company >http://www.streetrodframes.com > From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 01:30:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07131 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:30:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07126 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 01:30:39 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA29177 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:30:40 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: EGOR - how is he under PRESSURE? Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:31:43 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3587d925.16186187@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> <199806030255.TAA30719@mail.wgn.net> In-Reply-To: <199806030255.TAA30719@mail.wgn.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id BAA07127 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ... actually, for that matter, the issue doesn't just concern EGOR, but ANY/ALL them O2 meter boxes sold for them big huge bucks! Perhaps the subject should read "NTK UEGO - how is it under PRESSURE?". This all got started when Brock Fraser sent me a question/comment about a report he'd read on these sensors being exhaust system pressure sensitive, and what one engine mgmt. system had done to compensate/calibrate for this dependency. He said he couldn't recall this ever being discussed (actually it did come up very briefly during a technoblurb on the basic technology, from one of our electrochemical types on the list), and so what ensued after that was I went back and dug out the NTK/SAE paper to see why I had dismissed this as a non-issue, as well as why I presumed all the vendors of O2 meters using the NTK sensors had also. I'll try to summarize the traffic that has passed between Brock and I, regarding EGOR and NTK stuff, and then if Brock wants to fill in any of the Deere info he feels at liberty to discuss, you'll have as full a picture as possible, and be as up-to-speed as anyone. I looked up the quote in the paper on this, and sent him back the following message and quote: **** message extract begins **** The SAE paper by NTK makes mention of the pressure issues, lemme dig it out and remind myself of why I didn't worry about it; dadadum dadadum, let's see, it says ... OK, they're discussing the issue of both temperature and pressure dependency, having just derived all them equations for both, and say: [comments in brackets are mine-Gar] "Although practical dependence is at the level shown in Fig. 10 & 11, [figure 10 shows a 2% error per volt delta on the heater element, and a 3.6% error from a delta of 1.5psi in exhaust gas pressure] the diffusion opening was made to be porous showing relatively small temperature dependence and a little larger pressure dependence. It was decided by considering that, when it is installed to a practical engine exhaust pipe, the sensor output change due to exhaust pressure change can be easily corrected by other information, for example, engine revolution and intake manifold pressure, while the sensor element temperature cannot be easily compensated. Furthermore, the parameters affecting sensor output in the engine exhaust are not only temperature and pressure, but also the dynamic pulsation and nonequilibrium of exhaust gas. Therefore, we finally decided [on] the porous diffusion type which showed less sensor output error for all engine operating conditions." SAE #920234 [You gotta get that one; it's very well written and explains bloody EVERYTHING, including some simplified EGOR entrails. Heh.] I remember thinking, well on racing cars and airplane exhaust systems, there'd better not be much more than a few tenths of an atmosphere of back pressure at WOT, and it better not be varying even a tenth of that much around that point, especially in regimes where the leaness/richness of the mix is critical, otherwise we're in big trouble. **** message extract ends **** His (Brocks's) response might be summarized as "yes, that's OK, but what about those meter vendors whose meters are being used to measure exhaust gas O2 in stock auto's with dual cats and potentially more restrictive exhaust systems". Brock's own work is in whopping big diesel engines that probably don't represent too well the kinds of levels and variation of pressure levels found in ordinary automobiles, so neither of us really knows at this point just how much of an issue this is. That's another reason for needing to get this out to the group for discussion, cuz there likely will be some who HAVE instrumented and can give us an idea on what kinda exhaust backpressures can be expected in both stock and performance engines/exhaust systems. Especially anyone real familiar with the design of EGR systems would probably know, since I know at least SOME of those systems were very sensitive to exhaust gas pressure levels. Anyway, that's all we know about this at the moment. I imagine this will create another Energizer Bunny Thread, but it's gotta be opened up for discussion, so we can either worry or put the sucker to bed. But whatever it means for EGOR, it ALSO means the same for the Horiba, NTK, and ECM boxes, as well. Curious, no? Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 02:31:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07850 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:31:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07845 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:31:13 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA298 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:31:12 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:32:16 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3589e0e8.18173937@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980601.235010.11350.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <19980602.234540.11278.3.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19980602.234540.11278.3.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id CAA07846 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:32:52 -0400, cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) wrote: >I'd be glad to... Um... Where did I put that pesky inductance meter? >Oops, I forgot. I don't have one! Does that mean that I'm not allowed >to ask questions? EXACTLY, you can't ASK a question you're not prepared to also answer. Hee. Geez, talk about self-defeating! Actually, the reason for my response was it's also a tad more complicated than JUST what you were thinking outloud about. That's why I said try to work out some numbers, instead of just asking vague questions. I assumed you had an idea of the inductance ranges, but even with ANY guessed number for that, just as soon as you sat down to do your first calculation, you'da realized THERE IS SOMETHING MISSING STILL!! The ringing frequency in the coil's secondary, that you see on a scope trace, is a function of the inductance of the primary/secondary (depending on which one you wanna focus on), but ALSO, would there be ANY ringing if it was JUST L and R? Nope. So there's a C in the equation somewhere. Ooooops. Now you're gonna need more than an inductance meter. You're gonna need something to measure the distributed parasitic capacitance in the primary/secondary windings. Ouch. You're life as a theorist just got alot harder! Practically speaking, you don't measure the LRC components and do a calc to get the resonant freq, you get your equipment out, bang the coil, and MEASURE the actual resultant frequency. Cuz it ain't easy to CALCULATE, cuz it ain't so easy to measure the distributed internal coil capacitance. >What is the typical inductance of a spark coil? Is it on the order of a >henry or so? 0.1 henries? 10 henries? On the primary, it's like say 2-10 milliHenries, and the secondarys can be pretty big, say between 25-50 Henries. >What is the inupt impedance of the current sensing circuit? What does >the waveform look like? I'm sure that that information is available >somewhere on the web, but I haven't seen it. If someone who has that >information at their fingertips can pass it to me, I'll be glad to do >some calculations and post the results. If you'd only READ the previous posts, you'd have that info or something better. >The nagging though that the reactance of the coil might require some >special considerations has been bugging me. I didn't have the specific >information I need to do the calculations, so I tossed it out to the list >for consideration. I believe that "brainstorming" is the term used for >this. Yeah, but here again, consider what you've said. Tossing out broad questions may be well and good if that's the ONLY sources you have for investigation, but I've repeatedly posted the source for the schematics (the patents), there's been posted a couple times that I can recollect well, a link to a diagram showing both real and modeled coil AND ionization current waveforms (Lars Eriksson's & Mercel's paper, "Interpretation of Ionization Currents), and suggesting that knowing the inductance of the coils is gonna give you what you need to calculate results is kinda naive. If you'd looked at that waveform, you'd be able to see in an instant that the frequency of the coil ringing is WAY above the components in the measured ion currents (here's the path, ONCE AGAIN; go take a look and see what I mean: http://www.vehicular.isy.liu.se/Research/activity96/node5.html And that would also tell you all you needed to know about the input impedance of the measurement circuit, cuz it's gotta be low enough freq. to pass them ionization waveforms, and they are slower by probly a factor of 10 compared to the ringing, but since they don't both occur simultaneously, as you can see from the waveform, the whole issue is a red herring, anyway. See, so you DID have all the info you needed to answer your question! Brainstorm by all means, but with an emphasis on the "brain", not the "storm", or maybe in this case the "fog". B) There's yet another interesting phenom (well, it was to me when I heard it) involved here, that you can't actually see in those waveforms on that web page, but you CAN see clearly on a good scope trace of any IGN secondary waveform. The PLASMA itself has a resonant frequency! And the frequency is dependent solely on the gas constituents. I can only pass along what a collegue at work who's knowledgable about these arcane sorts of "physics" things, told me, but I gather from what he described, that the VERY high frequency what-looks-like-noise fuzz on top of what is usually refered to as the "arc line", the portion of the waveform just after the HV spike has ignited the charge, if you look at it on a scope, it will always look like it's a THICK line segment, suggesting there's a small very high frequency component superimposed. That's apparently the resonance of the plasma itself. Now, in none of the patents do I see any mention of using or trying to detect the presence of the plasma from it's resonant frequency signature, probably because it's much easier to tell if there's a plasma at all (all you really care about) from the conductivity of it, but I thot this was an interesting insight into why the typical HV IGN trace looks the way it does in that "arc line" portion. I'd always wondered why it looked so THICK there. I guess this is why. Curious, no? See, with that lil tidbit he shared with me, and I simply pass along to you, you are now prepared to explain EVERY single feature of the HV IGN trace on a scope, should you ever be asked to do so at a cocktail party or beer bust. The peaks, the ringing, the arc line, all make perfect sense; and now the fuzz on the arc line does too! B) Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 02:35:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07923 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:35:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA07919 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 02:35:41 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA367 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:35:42 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:36:46 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <358aee4e.21603046@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id CAA07920 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0700 (PDT), Jim Davies wrote: >> Too bad there isn't some kinda database, where you could punch in the >> OEM number and find out ALL the donors for that part. >> >Try a Hollander manual WOW, you mean there IS such a beastie, Jim? Geez, I'm impressed that ANYONE could accomplish such a feat. I've truly never heard of a Hollander manual. I know what Hollandaise sauce is tho! B) Golly, who would have such an enormous tome, anyway. It's gotta be several volumes no doubt. How would I get a look at such a marvel? Dead serious. Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 03:20:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08555 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:20:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from axil.wave.co.nz (Axil.wave.co.nz [202.49.46.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08550 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:20:11 -0400 Received: from faster (a8.hn2.wave.co.nz [203.96.193.136]) by axil.wave.co.nz (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06244 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:20:07 +1200 (NZST) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:23:04 +1200 Message-ID: <01BD8F25.082A6540.grantg@iname.com> From: Grant Gatenby To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Chev HEI Distibutors Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:22:51 +1200 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 9 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What are the general opinions of these in stock form ? What RPM can they be considered to produce adequate spark till, and is there any necessity for a 3rd party coil to be fitted to them. Any thoughts and opinions will be appreciated Cheers Grant From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 03:29:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08715 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:29:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f200.hotmail.com [207.82.251.91]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA08710 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:29:21 -0400 Received: (qmail 14184 invoked by uid 0); 3 Jun 1998 07:28:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19980603072851.14183.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.22.213.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:28:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [157.22.213.62] From: "Patience Challenged" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EGOR - how is he under PRESSURE? Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:28:50 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Be very carefull here about WOT exhaust pressure - turbos can easily have twice the exhaust back pressure at the cylinder of the boost pressure and can have very significant pressure all the way thru the system. Also, the pressure can vary sharply depending on how the waste gate etc functions. Those that are currently running high boost applications can fill you in on the exact pressures but I have been "told" by several respected authors ( Vizard, Bell etc ) that to expect about 30 PSI on a 15 pound boost normal installation. YMMV and it may not be relevant if EGOR is only sitting at the tip as a shop measurement tool and not part of any turbo engine management system. Those using it as part of an engine management may want to "calibrate" the system using a standard EGO and cycle it past stoic is note differences - again it may be relevant only to those with aspirations of including this into an engine management system. Little ION question. When its all working, will we be able to get enough information to adapt it to a diode stack so that it can be used without throwing away the electronic ignition and coils we already are using? Some of us might prefer to retain what we have. Anyway - good luck on both projects. Habeneros - not just for breakfast anymore!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 04:18:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09407 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:18:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from crianlarich.indigo-avs.com (crianlarich.indigo-avs.com [194.200.210.254]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA09402 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:18:20 -0400 Received: by crianlarich.indigo-avs.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BD8ED0.064AA960@crianlarich.indigo-avs.com>; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:14:34 +0100 Message-ID: From: Robert Humphris To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: DTA UK made EMS experiences ? Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:14:33 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Encoding: 10 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What do they do? Yeah I know that they make an ECU, but what's its spec? I have been looking at various aftermarket ECU's ( Emerad, Weber Alpha, Lumenition etc ) but not heard about this lot. Rob Humphris >Anybody tried the DTA fuel & ignition aftermarket ECU made here in the >UK. > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 04:54:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09781 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:54:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pinochet.cityline.ru (pinochet.cityline.ru [195.46.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09777 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:54:08 -0400 Received: from cittt.cityline.ru (ppp07-2-140.cityline.ru [195.46.162.140]) by pinochet.cityline.ru (8.8.8/t/97-Nov-22) with SMTP id MAA24237 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:49:52 +0400 (MSD) From: "Slava" To: Subject: Re: Switch Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:20:05 +0400 Message-ID: <01bd8ec8$69aeaae0$2ea32ec3@cittt.cityline.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu LM131A and LM231 - Precision Voltage-to-Frequency Converter [Obsolete] LM2917 and LM2907 - Frequency to Voltage Converter Slava. >>B&M makes a kit for refitting 700R4 that does exactly that. >>TCI has a similiar kit but uses a vacuum switch and 3-4th gear >>switch. > >That's certainly easier than what I was going to suggest... a LM9400 >configured as a Freq to V converter, and OP Amp to set the switch voltage, >driving a relay. > >:) > > >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport, CT 06606 > >Homebrew Automotive Website: >http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ > >1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental >1989 HMMWV >2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car > >- > From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 06:53:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA10789 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 06:53:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10785 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 06:53:04 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p55.scotland.net [148.176.232.55]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12868 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:53:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35752B6A.5F71DAEB@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 11:54:34 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DTA UK made EMS experiences ? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Don't know much about them yet (hence the trawl) except it is combined fuel and ignition, closed loop fuel mapping and includes PC software -- price seems OK Thinking about it for a 1.4 K series engine project for a kit as an aternative to Rover MEMS Robert Humphris wrote: > What do they do? Yeah I know that they make an ECU, but what's its > spec? I have been looking at various aftermarket ECU's ( Emerad, Weber > Alpha, Lumenition etc ) but not heard about this lot. > > Rob Humphris > > >Anybody tried the DTA fuel & ignition aftermarket ECU made here in the > >UK. > > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 08:21:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11513 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:21:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from lowlev3.cebaf.gov ([129.57.9.233]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11509 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:21:18 -0400 Received: (from grippo@localhost) by lowlev3.cebaf.gov (8.8.6/8.8.6) id IAA27052 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:20:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Albert Grippo Message-Id: <199806031220.IAA27052@lowlev3.cebaf.gov> Subject: Re: Chev HEI Distibutors To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 8:20:18 EDT In-Reply-To: <01BD8F25.082A6540.grantg@iname.com>; from "Grant Gatenby" at Jun 3, 98 7:22 pm x-HPVue$Revision: 1.8 $ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" x-Vue-Mime-Level: 4 X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > What are the general opinions of these in stock form ? > > What RPM can they be considered to produce adequate spark till, and is there any necessity for a 3rd party coil to be fitted to them. > HEI will spark to aboout 5000 rpm in stock form. Use it with an MSD ignition and you can go beyond 7000 rpm. It has worked very reliably for me. I have used it with both the stock coil and an MSD blaster coil and seen no difference. -Al Grippo From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 08:25:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11575 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:25:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11571 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:25:50 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp37-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.86]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA02123 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:22:08 -0400 Message-ID: <35754182.15AD@huron.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:28:50 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35748753.3BD33DF7@brokersys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just had an idea on the Nissan coils - anyone check them for continuity at, say, 80 volts? Mabee, just mabee, they have a HV diode stack in them? -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 08:48:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11902 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:48:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11897 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:48:26 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-218.nordson.com [207.206.59.218]) by users.qual.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/CICnet/IAG) with SMTP id IAA27496 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002301bd8eed$4c33f9f0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Chev HEI Distibutors Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:43:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I think they're pretty good. In general they work well up to 5500 rpm on a V-8. Aftermarket modules and/or coils can extend the useful range to 7000. Gary Derian From: Grant Gatenby >What are the general opinions of these in stock form ? > >What RPM can they be considered to produce adequate spark till, and is there any necessity for a 3rd party coil to be fitted to them. > >Any thoughts and opinions will be appreciated From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 08:52:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11985 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:52:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzserv.kemet.com (dmzserv.kemet.com [206.74.114.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11980 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:52:51 -0400 Received: from smtpgw.kemet.com ([206.74.114.1]) by dmzserv.kemet.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 204 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:47:05 -0400 Received: from Lotus Notes (PU Serial #1724) by smtpgw.kemet.com (PostalUnion/SMTP(tm) v2.1.9i(b5) for Windows NT(tm)) id AA-1998Jun03.065333.1724.817863; Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:53:52 -0400 From: MikeTurner@kemet.com (Mike Turner) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu (diy_efi) Message-ID: <1998Jun03.065333.1724.817863@smtpgw.kemet.com> X-Conversion-ID: X-Mailer: Lotus Notes via PostalUnion/SMTP for Windows NT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Organization: KEMET Electronics Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:53:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id IAA11981 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Should the need arise, I have lots of access to precision LCR meters. Inductance, capacitance, impedance, ESR, .....type readings. Lurking around these designs, it does not appear that you need such numbers, but I can get them if I can get sample parts. FYI. From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 09:02:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12232 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:02:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (gatekeeper2.mcimail.com [192.147.45.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA12228 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:02:46 -0400 Received: from mcimail.com (dgn1ig.mcimail.com [166.38.58.57]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA17821; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:15:16 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by DGN0IG.mcimail.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23099) id <01IXSU2HCXX6BQ19JH@DGN0IG.mcimail.com> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:02:08 GMT Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:02:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Nass Jeff <"KOHLERNET/GENERATORS/NassJeff%Kohler Co."@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans To: diy_efi Message-id: <01IXSU2HCXX8BQ19JH@DGN0IG.mcimail.com> Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Every boneyard has 'em. >>> Too bad there isn't some kinda database, where you could punch in the >>> OEM number and find out ALL the donors for that part. >>> >>Try a Hollander manual > >WOW, you mean there IS such a beastie, Jim? Geez, I'm impressed that >ANYONE could accomplish such a feat. I've truly never heard of a >Hollander manual. I know what Hollandaise sauce is tho! B) >Golly, who would have such an enormous tome, anyway. It's gotta be >several volumes no doubt. How would I get a look at such a marvel? >Dead serious. > >Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 09:24:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12664 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:24:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12660 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:24:48 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (blgspm301-020.mcn.net [208.26.146.20]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA13979 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35754B2E.DE502AD9@mcn.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:10:07 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans References: <358aee4e.21603046@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:22:44 -0700 (PDT), Jim Davies > wrote: > > >> Too bad there isn't some kinda database, where you could punch in the > >> OEM number and find out ALL the donors for that part. > >> > >Try a Hollander manual > > WOW, you mean there IS such a beastie, Jim? Geez, I'm impressed that > ANYONE could accomplish such a feat. I've truly never heard of a > Hollander manual. I know what Hollandaise sauce is tho! B) > > Golly, who would have such an enormous tome, anyway. It's gotta be > several volumes no doubt. How would I get a look at such a marvel? > Dead serious. > > Gar Talk real nice to the local salvage guy. He might even have that info on computer now. Whoda thunkit? Then again, you can go to their web page: http://www.hollander-auto-parts.com/hollander2.htm. The prices are on the order form. Make sure you're seated... Shannen From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 09:52:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13268 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:52:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13264 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:52:23 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-29.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.98]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id JAA24426 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:51:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Chev HEI Distibutors Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:53:30 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8ef6$fd976b60$62198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gary Derian Subject: Re: Chev HEI Distibutors >I think they're pretty good. In general they work well up to 5500 rpm on a V-8. Aftermarket modules and/or coils can extend the useful range to 7000. Gary Derian > >From: Grant Gatenby >>What are the general opinions of these in stock form ? >>What RPM can they be considered to produce adequate spark till, and is there any necessity for a 3rd party coil to be fitted to them. Any thoughts and opinions will be appreciated > If your talking about in-cap coils, IMHO sign off time with a stock motor is 5,000 rpm... If your making HP less. MSD makes a low resistance center button, and remote coil kit that helps. External coil distributors, just use a good aftermarket one (coil). Mount the coils on the body, so the engine vibration doesn't kill em, and they run cooler. Use the modules just to trigger a Crane or Jacobs System. Years ago me and some pals had a bunch of junk msds, and I never trusted them after that. Be sure to clean and use dielectric grease on the module, and clean things up every couple years. Replace rotors every 20K miles. Use good ol AC, or Autolite plugs, IMHO. Keep 5+7 plug wires an inch apart (SBC). Loom the spark plug wires neatly. Use premium spiral wrapped wires to min EMF/RFI noise to the ecm (DIY EFI relationship).... I haven't seen any gains independently reported on these $400 plug wire sets. Supposedly Roush (?), uses Magnecor wires. Least looked like em on a engine of Martins I saw up close. Was a blurb on this list about Jacobs patent being for packaging, ain't true, it's for how he turns off the Capacitor in the CDI. HTH Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 09:52:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13287 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:52:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from puce.one.net.au (puce.one.net.au [203.17.224.29]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13280 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:52:55 -0400 Received: from nicks-pc ([203.101.5.95]) by puce.one.net.au (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA35FF for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:49:23 +1000 Message-ID: <356331C8.2666@one.net.au> Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:40:56 +0400 From: nluker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: webber efi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello Everyone Ive just joined the list and am wondering if any one knows anything about or where i can get info on webber-maralli fuel injection in particular the sort used on the maserati biturbos. There was 2 types used one with an ego sensor and one with out thanks nick luker From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 10:04:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13666 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:04:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13660 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:04:30 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-29.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.98]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id KAA28407 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:03:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:05:48 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8ef8$b5b036e0$62198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Big Snip VERY high frequency what-looks-like-noise fuzz on top of what >is usually refered to as the "arc line", the portion of the waveform >just after the HV spike has ignited the charge, if you look at it on a >scope, it will always look like it's a THICK line segment, suggesting >there's a small very high frequency component superimposed. That's >apparently the resonance of the plasma itself. Now, in none of the >patents do I see any mention of using or trying to detect the presence >of the plasma from it's resonant frequency signature, probably because >it's much easier to tell if there's a plasma at all (all you really care >about) from the conductivity of it, but I thot this was an interesting >insight into why the typical HV IGN trace looks the way it does in that >"arc line" portion. I'd always wondered why it looked so THICK there. I >guess this is why. Curious, no? > >See, with that lil tidbit he shared with me, and I simply pass along to >you, you are now prepared to explain EVERY single feature of the HV IGN >trace on a scope, should you ever be asked to do so at a cocktail party >or beer bust. The peaks, the ringing, the arc line, all make perfect >sense; and now the fuzz on the arc line does too! B) >Gar > The one thing I thought I brought to the dance was tune-up info., and here a dang EE teaches me about a scope pattern. I will return to my seat in the corner and humbly lurk with my CSH on. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 10:39:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14380 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:39:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14376 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:39:00 -0400 Received: from mitchell (pool006-max5.ds13-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.16.106]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA21857 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806031438.HAA21857@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> From: "max" To: Subject: Re: EGOR - how is he under PRESSURE? Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 07:29:31 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > That's another reason for > needing to get this out to the group for discussion, cuz there likely > will be some who HAVE instrumented and can give us an idea on what kinda > exhaust backpressures can be expected in both stock and performance > engines/exhaust systems. Especially anyone real familiar with the design > of EGR systems would probably know, since I know at least SOME of those > systems were very sensitive to exhaust gas pressure levels. > On most turbo charged cars the sensor is placed after the turbine discharge. I have personally measured as much as 40 psig before the turbine at high boost and have seen 6 psig after the turbine. My friends tuning shop has measured as much a 9 psig after the turbine on some cars at full load. Most of the measurements are take with full exhaust and with a cat. In regards to EGR, many cars use a Back Pressure Transducer diaphram deal to help regulate the amount of EGR in proportion to backpressure. Usually on small engines that they try to run a lot of EGR on. Steve From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 10:59:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14725 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:59:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14720 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:59:56 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-29.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.98]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id KAA15712 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:58:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Egor, Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:01:12 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8f00$72e7ae80$62198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Why does Egor have to face high exhaust pressures?. Can't he be mounted downstream of the turbo?... On the oem O2 they mount them by the ports for the heat, but he's self compensating, right?.... Or did I miss something?. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 11:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14946 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:10:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14942 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:10:23 -0400 Received: from server1 from [207.136.59.58] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.237) with smtp for sender: <351w@airmail.net> id ; Wed, 3 Jun 98 10:10:23 -0500 (CDT) From: "Raymond Brantley" <351w@airmail.net> To: "DIY EFI List Rule" Subject: Mits.Coil Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:01:40 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bd8f00$838bef80$3a3b88cf@server1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ok this is what I found......Borg/Warner does not list a coil for 91-94 Mist. Eclipse 2.0 They do list one for 91 Gallant SOHC 1997cc pt# E-554 price 43.89 in the illustrated guide it lists equiv. OEM #'s as MD104696,MD113551,MD131711. Beck/Arnley lists one, 90-94 Eclipse 2.0 pt# 178-8175 for ouch!!! 150.00. I also checked KEM n/a on them as well as Standard. I made sure to quote over the counter prices I could get a single, maybe two at a discount(if that would help any).....Sorry I thought I could do better. Gar one question, why did you post List price? When I worked in the auto parts business that was reserved for people who made us mad or insurance adjusters :>) Ray From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 12:03:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15897 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:03:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15893 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:03:14 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA10765 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:03:13 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:04:17 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35966d2e.54083250@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8ef8$b5b036e0$62198fd1@nacelp> In-Reply-To: <01bd8ef8$b5b036e0$62198fd1@nacelp> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id MAA15894 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:05:48 -0400, "Bruce Plecan" wrote: >>VERY high frequency what-looks-like-noise fuzz on top of what >>is usually refered to as the "arc line", the portion of the waveform >>just after the HV spike has ignited the charge, if you look at it on a >>scope, it will always look like it's a THICK line segment, suggesting >>there's a small very high frequency component superimposed. That's >>apparently the resonance of the plasma itself. Actually, this gives me a chance to correct meself; that description of the "arc line" portion is faulty. The "arc line" is the short flat segment of the waveform just after the spark ARC occurs, not when the mix explodes. It's an electrical phenom we're looking at, not a combustion one. The plasma that's conducting is the plasma formed between the electrodes, not the larger one formed by the explosion of the charge. So if you're looking on a scope, it's the first lower voltage segment, right after the HV peaks, and the spark plug goes off. Sorry if my description confused anyone. >The one thing I thought I brought to the dance was tune-up info., and >here a dang EE teaches me about a scope pattern. I will return to my seat >in the corner and humbly lurk with my CSH on. Uh huh. Fat chance of THAT happening. Hee. Actually, I'd bet on most diagnostic scopes, you wouldn't SEE the fuzz, the line would just look some more blurry than the rest of the waveform. Of necessity, diag scopes really aren't built to look for stuff like this (really, why bother). The place I first saw this "arc line" thickness was in a really old book that Hewlett-Packard produced to go along with a special purpose scope they made for analyzing stationary engines, which consisted of a package of a bunch of scope plug-ins and sensors so you could view vibration, cyl pressure, IGN all together, and vewy vewy cawefuwwy, as Elmer Fudd would say. Instead of buying all them parts, when I was a lowly poor student, I snagged the book and the part no. for just the capacitive IGN probe, which I paid $35 for in 1975. The receipt is the bookmarker for the book! It's one of my treasures, the book that is B). They have scope pictures of all kinds of things like what detonation looks like in terms of both vibes and actual cyl pressure, what valve noise and piston slap look like on the scope, etc. You CAN buy in-cylinder pressure transducers now that incorporate sparkplug and pressure transducer, and they are STILL expensive. This was over 20 yrs ago, when they were truly SUPER expensive! I forget how much that one sensor was, but I DO remember I couldn't afford it, let alone the rest of the package. But see, that instrument was small (well, relative to a shop scope), portable with lots of cords, plugins and sensors, and was VEWY VEWY expensive. My point in mentioning all of this is that for most automotive diagnosis, this kinda approach, with a fairly high frequency scope, would be overkill and prohibitively expensive. But tryna find a problem on an engine the size of a house is another ballgame entirely. Think about it. I've been mildly wondering why that arc line was so thickish for over 22 years, and just a few months ago whilst discussing the ION project with this mate at work, he drops the answer on me. Some times ya just gotta wait for the answer! This makes me think in my retirement, I should try to scan some of those pictures in. The book is soooo long outta print, I can't imagine Tek minding, and they NEVER would come out on a xerox copier, too much detail lost, but with some good big scans, putting them up on the web might be REAL plausible, and a good way to preserve this bit of archeological treasure. One of them pictures, and the paragraph or two from the book, would really be a nice resource. Yeah, I oughta put that on my to-do list. Sooo much fun, so little time. Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 12:05:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15940 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:05:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15935 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:05:24 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA10841 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:05:21 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:06:24 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35977422.55863328@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01IXSU2HCXX8BQ19JH@DGN0IG.mcimail.com> In-Reply-To: <01IXSU2HCXX8BQ19JH@DGN0IG.mcimail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id MAA15937 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:02:12 -0400 (EDT), Nass Jeff <"KOHLERNET/GENERATORS/NassJeff%Kohler Co."@mcimail.com> wrote: > >Every boneyard has 'em. > >>>> Too bad there isn't some kinda database, where you could punch in the >>>> OEM number and find out ALL the donors for that part. Geez, whada chump I've been all these years, when I'd ask for some part, and the guy would seem like somekinda genius to pull it up outta thin air. I just never knew where all them smarts was comin from. Shazam, dudes. Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 12:08:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16055 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:08:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16051 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:08:27 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA10996 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:08:27 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:09:30 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3598748b.55968656@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <1998Jun03.065333.1724.817863@smtpgw.kemet.com> In-Reply-To: <1998Jun03.065333.1724.817863@smtpgw.kemet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id MAA16052 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:53:52 -0400, MikeTurner@kemet.com (Mike Turner) wrote: >Should the need arise, I have lots of access to precision LCR meters. Inductance, capacitance, impedance, ESR, .....type readings. Lurking around these designs, it does not appear that you need such numbers, but I can get them if I can get sample parts. FYI. WHOA, a VERY valuable offer to the group. Thanks Mike. We've got a wee lil group of early-ION builders growing, all likely using diff. coils, so if we find diff. in performance and wanna slueth out if it's maybe the coils, this would be a very neat resource to clear up issues like that. Please don't unsubscribe any time soon. B) Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 12:18:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16256 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:18:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16252 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:18:20 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA11385 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:18:20 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:19:24 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3599754a.56159578@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35748753.3BD33DF7@brokersys.com> <35754182.15AD@huron.net> In-Reply-To: <35754182.15AD@huron.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id MAA16253 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 08:28:50 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: >Just had an idea on the Nissan coils - anyone check them for continuity >at, say, 80 volts? Mabee, just mabee, they have a HV diode stack in >them? Clever fellow. Where did you learn that? Heh. I couldn't drag my HV diode continuity checker in with me (a bunch of 9V batteries strung in series, with taps so I can increase forward bias by 9V at a time; I figured the parts guy might just be wise enough to think of that as a potentially destructive testing appratus B), but there's a Nissan guy on the list who's gonna see if he can't get a decommissioned one send me for "further study", including disembowelment, if necessary, to get to the bottom of this behavior. Gar P.S. For those who've never worked with HV diodes, what's going on here is that say for an individual one that's good for a rev. breakdown of say 10KV, because it's actually made up of scads of individual diode junctions inside, it takes maybe 8-12V to forward bias such a critter. Hence, on a normal ohmmeter, even with a "diode" setting, the applied voltage (God, I HOPE so!) isn't sufficient to forward bias the diode and make it come to life. Now, typically when these diodes are used to isolate a portion of the HV circuit, like joining two coils together to form a redundant pair (which is why in XAviation we know about these things), several, up to maybe half-dozen are strung in series to provide the 40-60KV protection that's needed against the IGN spike. Hence, if you put 6 of em in series, it can take up to 60-80V to forward bias the stack. That's where Clare (also an XA guy, BTW) is comin from. Heh. From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 12:30:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16573 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:30:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.85]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16569 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:30:30 -0400 Received: from earthlink.net (pool009-max4.gg-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.143.159]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA09985 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:30:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35757A02.A7BBC2A8@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:29:54 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Egor, References: <01bd8f00$72e7ae80$62198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Why does Egor have to face high exhaust pressures?. > > Can't he be mounted downstream of the turbo?... > > On the oem O2 they mount them by the ports for the heat, but he's > self compensating, right?.... Dunno if this helps or not, but the O2 sensor on the Volvo B230 turbo (700-series cars) is located on the downpipe probably a good 16" downstream from the turbo. By contrast, ealier B21 turbos (200-series cars), from what I've been told, had them mounted on the exhaust manifold. It seams to me that a more accurate (albeit cooler) reading would be had by positioning the sensor in a spot where the exhaust gasses from all cylinders would have a better chance of being sampled. -- Best, Michael McBroom From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 12:50:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16930 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:50:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16924 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:49:58 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA12791 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:49:43 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EGOR - how is he under PRESSURE? Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:50:47 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <359d7b9e.57779078@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <19980603072851.14183.qmail@hotmail.com> In-Reply-To: <19980603072851.14183.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id MAA16925 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:28:50 PDT, "Patience Challenged" wrote: >Be very carefull here about WOT exhaust pressure - turbos can easily >have twice the exhaust back pressure at the cylinder of the boost >pressure and can have very significant pressure all the way thru the >system. > >...expect about 30 PSI on a 15 pound >boost normal installation. Sheeeeeeeeit. 30psi? arrr arr arrrroooooo. See that's why we gotta sum the fractional wits on stuff like this. I had NO idea it could be that high. >YMMV and it may not be relevant if EGOR is only sitting at the tip as a >shop measurement tool and not part of any turbo engine management >system. Yeahbutt, yeahbutt, O2 sensors normally CAIN'T just sit on some tip of something, they gotsta be in the exhaust flow fairly near the belching dragoon. This was Brock's quandry; how on earth can you use these commercial boxes as a simple meter, and just stick the sensor element in a bung, when they have no way of compensating for back pressure effects on the sensor. Finofino for Eng.Mgmt., cuz like the NTK/SAE paper suggests, just do a rough approx. for what the backpressure is likely to be, given the things the ECM knows, namely MAP, RPM, etc. It's just volume forced thru a restriction; not rocket science to get a rough idea, assuming you no how restrictive your exhaust system is to begin with. But the real puzzle that begs to be answered is why the Horiba, NTK, ECM boxes don't even MENTION this issue in their user's manuals or literature!! >Little ION question. When its all working, will we be able to get >enough information to adapt it to a diode stack so that it can be used >without throwing away the electronic ignition and coils we already are >using? Some of us might prefer to retain what we have. I think so. I intend trying some of those eXperiments as well, just not at first (ya know, tryna stick as close to the known-good-existence-proof SAAB implementation, and keep the number of unknowns to a minimum). I've already got some experience using the HV diode stacks, and there's at least one good patent (5,293,129: guys from Mitsubishi) that shows all kinds of configs where you use HV diodes to keep from intruding into the coil secondary wiring. That paper even shows how to do it whilst using wasteFire coils IN wasteFire mode. So many eXperiments, so little time. B) Herr Dr. Garfensteen From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 13:20:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17576 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:20:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17572 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:20:26 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA14245 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:20:26 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Mits.Coil Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 10:21:30 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35a28597.60332812@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <000001bd8f00$838bef80$3a3b88cf@server1> In-Reply-To: <000001bd8f00$838bef80$3a3b88cf@server1> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id NAA17573 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:01:40 -0500, "Raymond Brantley" <351w@airmail.net> wrote: >Gar one question, why did you post List price? When I worked in the auto >parts business that was reserved for people who made us mad or insurance >adjusters :>) Heh, yeah, but there's method in me madness. I used to post "street" prices, and then invariably some wag would come back and say, "well, I called soNso, and THEY SAY they're suchNsuch an amount". This way, I quote the list price, everyone can figure out what they'd really expect to pay, and I don't get any prop wash. Well, OK, LESS prop wash. Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 13:27:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17718 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:27:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.tantech.com ([206.130.240.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA17714 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:27:03 -0400 Received: by problem.tantech.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #25) id m0yhHO4-0000ifC; Wed, 3 Jun 98 13:31 EDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:31:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: <358aee4e.21603046@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> from "garfield@pilgrimhouse.com" at Jun 2, 98 11:36:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > >> Too bad there isn't some kinda database, where you could punch in the > >> OEM number and find out ALL the donors for that part. > >> > >Try a Hollander manual > > WOW, you mean there IS such a beastie, Jim? Geez, I'm impressed that > ANYONE could accomplish such a feat. I've truly never heard of a > Hollander manual. I know what Hollandaise sauce is tho! B) > > Golly, who would have such an enormous tome, anyway. It's gotta be > several volumes no doubt. How would I get a look at such a marvel? > Dead serious. a lot of large auto parts stores have them for reference almost every wrecking yard has them you may find hollander on the web as well these books are expensive to buy but you might get a couple year old one at an auto flea market Clive From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 14:14:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18552 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:14:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18531 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:11:44 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p26.scotland.net [148.176.232.26]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27672 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:11:20 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3575917D.D71B508A@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:10:05 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: webber efi References: <356331C8.2666@one.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is it the Weber Alpha system which is sold as an after market system to fit Weber carb manifolds ? nluker wrote: > Hello Everyone > Ive just joined the list and am wondering if any one knows anything > about or where i can get info on webber-maralli fuel injection in > particular the sort used on the maserati biturbos. There was 2 types > used one with an ego sensor and one with out > thanks > nick luker From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 14:21:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18659 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:21:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18655 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:21:38 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-24.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.42]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id OAA23310 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:20:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Backpressure, and egor Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:22:55 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8f1c$a0daec00$2a198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On a NA engine 4-6 PSI with a Converter would be a loud car. 6-8, is closer to normal, and a little higher for a Caddy/M-B.. These numbers are also true for downstream of a turbo. Yes, in a stock oem/less than optimim system the crossover pipe from the exhaust port to turbo can be twice as high as boost. In a "good" system, you can reach cross-over where at high boost the crossover's pipe can be less than boost PSI. This pressure drops quickly as the exhaust cools, and is an average. The pulse is high, and then there is a long low pressure event. That's how they use reed valves for evacuating crankcases. Jus me .02 worth Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 15:14:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19497 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:14:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pinochet.cityline.ru (pinochet.cityline.ru [195.46.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19493 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:14:06 -0400 Received: from cittt.cityline.ru (ppp25-5-192.cityline.ru [195.46.165.192]) by pinochet.cityline.ru (8.8.8/t/97-Nov-22) with SMTP id XAA24670 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:12:14 +0400 (MSD) From: "Slava" To: Subject: Engine's air/fuel ratio and O2 sensor Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 23:11:47 +0400 Message-ID: <01bd8f23$749fd0e0$c0a52ec3@cittt.cityline.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Dear Sirs! May be you know the relationship between Carbon Monoxide (CO) exhaust gas percentages and engine's air/fuel ratio and O2 sensor voltage (open loop). Slava. You can E-mail me:cittt@cityline.ru From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 15:20:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19572 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:20:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19568 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:20:44 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id MAA37700; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:20:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans In-Reply-To: <358aee4e.21603046@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > >> > >Try a Hollander manual > > Golly, who would have such an enormous tome, anyway. It's gotta be > several volumes no doubt. How would I get a look at such a marvel? > Dead serious. > Any wrecking yard. Hollander has an integrated computer program which includes bookeeping, stock control etc now, so I imagine the interchange manuals are on-line too. From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 15:36:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19899 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:36:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19895 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:36:11 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id MAA45726; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:36:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Post-Coil-Quest ION Plans In-Reply-To: <35977422.55863328@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > Geez, whada chump I've been all these years, when I'd ask for some part, > and the guy would seem like somekinda genius to pull it up outta thin > air. I just never knew where all them smarts was comin from. Shazam, > dudes. > In many cases, the info came out of someones head, rather than from the Hollander. A good parts man is a treasure...a bad one? Cannon fodder? From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 15:49:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20190 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:49:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dns2.anl.gov (dns2.anl.gov [146.139.254.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20186 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:49:02 -0400 From: lkurek@smtpgate.anl.gov Received: from smtpgate.anl.gov (smtpgate.anl.gov [146.137.96.36]) by dns2.anl.gov (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA11894 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:49:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ccMail by smtpgate.anl.gov (ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02) id AA896903337; Wed, 03 Jun 98 14:49:01 -0600 Message-Id: <9806038969.AA896903337@smtpgate.anl.gov> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R6.00.02 Date: Wed, 03 Jun 98 14:25:21 -0600 To: Subject: Re: CONVERTING MECHANICAL FUEL INJ TO EFI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Not a problem.... All you really need to do is set up a TPS (throttle position sensor) and drill and weld in some injector bosses and fuel rails. Assuming you only want to do a basic conversion, this is all you need for an Alpha-N setup. If you wanted to get more sophisticated, you could always fabricate up an idle bypass so you could have IAC control of idle speed...but I wouldn't bother. Best of luck! Larry ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: CONVERTING MECHANICAL FUEL INJ TO EFI Author: at internet Date: 6/2/98 2:53 PM I HAVE A 1955 CHEVY WITH A L88 427 FOR POWER. I WANTED TO GET A CROWER MECHANICAL FUEL INJECTION UNIT FOR THE STREET BUT I"VE BEEN TOLD THAT ITS A BIG PROBLEM UNIT FOR THE STREET. SO I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF I'LL HAVE ANY PROBLEMS CONVERTING THE CROWER UNIT OVER TO EFI AS FAR AS COST OF PARTS VERSES BUYING AN AFTER MARKET EFI UNIT THAT WON`T LOOK HALF AS GOOD AS THE CROWER RUNNER TUBES STICKING THROUGH THE HOOD. I CAN DO ALL THE MACHINE WORK. From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 15:56:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20318 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:56:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20313 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:56:18 -0400 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id HAA25527; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:56:13 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ppp118.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.118) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma025519; Thu, 4 Jun 98 07:56:02 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980604071546.007624bc@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:15:46 +1200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) In-Reply-To: <35754182.15AD@huron.net> References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35748753.3BD33DF7@brokersys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:28 3/06/98 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: >Just had an idea on the Nissan coils - anyone check them for continuity >at, say, 80 volts? Mabee, just mabee, they have a HV diode stack in >them? I think (although I was wrong once), that these (and some other distributor-less coils) have a series spark gap in them to simulate the effect of the distributor rotor to cap gap. This has the effect of sharpening the voltage rise time at the plugs, making them less prone to fouling. Mike Morrin From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 16:20:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20849 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:20:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20836 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:19:25 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA21492 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:19:24 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:20:28 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35b2ae26.70715625@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35748753.3BD33DF7@brokersys.com> <3.0.3.32.19980604071546.007624bc@southern.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980604071546.007624bc@southern.co.nz> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id QAA20837 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:15:46 +1200, Mike Morrin wrote: >At 08:28 3/06/98 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: >>Just had an idea on the Nissan coils - anyone check them for continuity >>at, say, 80 volts? Mabee, just mabee, they have a HV diode stack in >>them? > >I think (although I was wrong once), that these (and some other >distributor-less coils) have a series spark gap in them to simulate the >effect of the distributor rotor to cap gap. This has the effect of >sharpening the voltage rise time at the plugs, making them less prone to >fouling. Yup, I agree, that's probably a much more likely scenario than some HV diodes inside, those take a fair amount of room and I'm not sure what purpose they'd serve. I think it was just a guess on Clare's part, another remotely possible explanation. That's why I wanna get my hands on one and take it apart. But this is OBVIOUSLY not a burning issue, so no biggie. The one thing, IMNSHO, that seems to point with high probability to the cap thingee, is that someone else (or was that you Mike?) also mentioned some Bosch coils being the same way (i.e., having an internal gap), and since I recently metered a bunch of Bosch coils and found no DC continuity in their secondaries either, it seems likely both coil types work the same. And it wouldn't be the first time a Japanese company followed Bosch's lead. B) Just some itinerant thots. Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 16:22:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20890 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:22:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20886 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:22:07 -0400 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA28905 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 06:22:38 +1000 Received: from gou-ppp-071.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.71), claiming to be "acer-p166" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda28899; Thu Jun 4 06:22:33 1998 Message-ID: <3575B1D6.2EC8@tpgi.com.au> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 06:28:06 +1000 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: Tech1 scan tool Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu hi gents do any fo you guys use the vortronics tehc1 in the US. we use it on the holden, opel/vauxhall & isuzu, although it has beed updated by the tech2 which is all upgradeable by cd-rom not eprom. im trying to get a hold of some eprom images from the tech1 for the us stuff. im told that chrysler and ford use it on some cars as qwell as chev ??? many thanks in advance Justin From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 16:24:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20935 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:24:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20930 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 16:24:36 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA21938 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:24:35 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:25:39 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35b4b09e.71347843@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35748753.3BD33DF7@brokersys.com> <3.0.3.32.19980604071546.007624bc@southern.co.nz> <35b2ae26.70715625@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> In-Reply-To: <35b2ae26.70715625@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id QAA20931 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:20:28 -0700, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: >The one thing, IMNSHO, that seems to point with high probability to the >cap thingee, is that someone else (or was that you Mike?) also mentioned >some Bosch coils being the same way (i.e., having an internal gap), Ooops, nope that was EricS. Two coil types/makes that behave the same way, one is known to use internal air gaps; sounds fairly likely the second one does also. Wouldn't bet lunch on it, but maybe a beer. Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 19:06:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22913 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:06:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rtmol.stt.it (mail.rtmol.it [193.70.50.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22909 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 19:06:01 -0400 From: fpalumbo@rtmol.it Received: from default (ppp-22.rtmol.stt.it [193.70.50.52]) by rtmol.stt.it (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA00032 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:05:56 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980603213035.006cb098@mail.rtmol.it> X-Sender: fpalumbo@mail.rtmol.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 21:30:35 +0200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: webber efi In-Reply-To: <356331C8.2666@one.net.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 23.40 20/05/98 +0400, you wrote: >Hello Everyone >Ive just joined the list and am wondering if any one knows anything >about or where i can get info on webber-maralli fuel injection in >particular the sort used on the maserati biturbos. There was 2 types >used one with an ego sensor and one with out > thanks > nick luker > What kind of informations do You need ? If You need informations regarding the Eprom's program Maybe I can help You... Regards. Fabrizio -------------------------------------------------------------- Fabrizio Palumbo Systems for EFI Techologies http://www.axa.it/bopal/main.html mailto://fpalumbo@rtmol.it From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 20:16:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23450 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:16:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@frapp.wolfe.net [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23446 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:16:32 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (root@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA11387 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:16:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id MAA27206 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199806031932.MAA27206@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3599754a.56159578@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> from "garfield@pilgrimhouse.com" at Jun 3, 98 09:19:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For anyone interested in HV diode specs, visit the following: http://www.hvca.com There was some discussion on sci.electronics.design recently. (BTW, they claim free samples...) > P.S. For those who've never worked with HV diodes, what's going on here > is that say for an individual one that's good for a rev. breakdown of > say 10KV, because it's actually made up of scads of individual diode > junctions inside, it takes maybe 8-12V to forward bias such a critter. > Hence, on a normal ohmmeter, even with a "diode" setting, the applied > voltage (God, I HOPE so!) isn't sufficient to forward bias the diode and > make it come to life. Now, typically when these diodes are used to > isolate a portion of the HV circuit, like joining two coils together to > form a redundant pair (which is why in XAviation we know about these > things), several, up to maybe half-dozen are strung in series to provide > the 40-60KV protection that's needed against the IGN spike. Hence, if > you put 6 of em in series, it can take up to 60-80V to forward bias the > stack. That's where Clare (also an XA guy, BTW) is comin from. Heh. From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 20:19:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23478 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:19:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23474 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:19:57 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA1605 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:19:47 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EGOR - how is he under PRESSURE? Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:20:52 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35d2e41d.84530875@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> <199806030105.SAA19408@mail.wgn.net> <199806030255.TAA30719@mail.wgn.net> <3587d925.16186187@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> In-Reply-To: <3587d925.16186187@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id UAA23475 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:31:43 -0700, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: >3.6% error from a delta of 1.5psi in exhaust gas pressure I realized from some private email, that I had failed like the putz I am, to put in some really important info, namely the "polarity" of this error, during that last post/report on this issue. >From both the input Brock had, as well as the NTK plots in the SAE article, the effect of the error is the following (read carefully lest you get tangled in it, it's kinda a brain-twister): The effect of the error is for the sensor to report LEANER mixtures than are actually present, in the presence of elevated exhaust gas pressure. This causes the mixture to be set slightly RICHER than intended, by the engine mgmt. system. So, of the two directions the error could go, this is by FAR the most desirable, cuz it says that IF you use EGOR in an engine mgmt. system, let's say with some boost that's effecting his sanity, he will report that the mixture is leaner than it is, and so the result will be you will run a tad richer than you intended. That's CERTAINLY far better for our "racing/aircraft/performance/survival" focus, than those to whom minimum emissions is the grail they seek. See why I said it was unfortunate to omit this info? Cuz if the direction of the error had been in the opposite direction, we'd REALLY be in a world of hurt, cuz that would mean EGOR's pressure-induced derangement could be responsible for your engine running too LEAN. A thing he should wanna do NEVER. This way, his error is gonna cause your ECM to err on the side of too rich, rather than the potentially fatal side of too lean. Phew, thank God for that!! And the percentage RICH you would be running would presumably (assuming the fuel maps are linear, har har) be this same 3.6% per 0.1atm pressure delta effect. So, if these errors ARE indeed what we'll see from the Honda NTK sensors (a fact I STILL have some doubts about, in light of the commercial box mfg'ers saying nuthin bout this), then if you had a 1.5 psi backpressure (which hopefully is 0.1atm roughly B), your mixture would actually be 3.6% lower (richer) in AFR than EGOR measures, assuming you do NO compensation. Hope that helps take the chill and edge off that earlier cautioner's tale. At least, IF this effect is there and as strong as the SAE paper indicated, then we err on the "good side". Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 20:41:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA23775 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:41:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from silver.hkabc.net (silver.hkabc.net [202.73.252.65]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA23770 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:41:38 -0400 Received: from wilman.khabc.net (ppp253136.hkabc.net [202.73.253.136]) by silver.hkabc.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA05277 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:40:48 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199806040040.IAA05277@silver.hkabc.net> From: "Wilman Lee" To: Subject: Re: webber efi Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:34:10 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ---------- > From: nluker > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: webber efi > Date: Thursday, May 21, 1998 3:40 AM > > Hello Everyone > Ive just joined the list and am wondering if any one knows anything > about or where i can get info on webber-maralli fuel injection in > particular the sort used on the maserati biturbos. There was 2 types > used one with an ego sensor and one with out > thanks > nick luker > > What do you want to know in particular? What model is your car? We are a Maserati service agent. Wilman From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 21:33:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA24527 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:33:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24523 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:33:02 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #15587) id <01IXT9SDHTPC00008T@UALR.EDU>; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 20:32:54 CDT Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:02:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Hilborn stuff for sale To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <483629.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 X-Envelope-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> expensive. But if you want something to make you feel Kinsler's -> prices aren't bad, get the catalog from Hilborn themselves. Whew, ... -> cover is that the manifold sells for over $2K (and the ram tubes are -> extra B)! If anyone is interested, I have a big pile of *new* Hilborn bits, some of them still in the original packing. Fuel pump, barrel valve, two sets of nozzles, hoses, Gilmer belt, drive spud, brackets, shutoff valve, stacks... everything except the manifold itself, which I'm using for something else. I'd be happy to make someone a nice deal on all that stuff. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? ====================================http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 21:41:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA24596 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:41:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net (germany-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.123]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24592 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:41:36 -0400 Received: from earthlink.net (pool002-max8.ds18-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.12.2]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09867 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3575FA39.8BB8E9E2@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 18:36:57 -0700 From: Heinrich Gerhardt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Chev HEI Distibutors References: <01BD8F25.082A6540.grantg@iname.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Grant Gatenby wrote: > What are the general opinions of these in stock form ? > > What RPM can they be considered to produce adequate spark till, and is there any necessity for a 3rd party coil to be fitted to them. > > Any thoughts and opinions will be appreciated > > Cheers > > Grant I own a 66 GTO with a roller-cammed Pontiac 428 which makes about 550HP, and which I shift at 6500 RPM. Until 3 months ago, I was using an absolutely-stock HEI, including coil and module. In this form, the car ran 12.2's at 115mph. (This car weighs about 4100 lbs w/driver.) I came across an MSD-6AL and Blaster coil for way cheap (free), so I installed it. Performance? EXACTLY the same as before. I suppose it could be argued that my engine doesn't make that much cylinder pressure, and therefore doesn't need that much spark energy, but a stock HEI certainly is adequate for this thing... Good luck, Heinrich Gerhardt (Mr. Goatwrench) From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 21:49:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA24726 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:49:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24720 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:49:45 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA4707 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:49:28 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: HV Diode Sources Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 18:50:33 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35d7f7bd.89554671@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806031932.MAA27206@gonzo.wolfenet.com> In-Reply-To: <199806031932.MAA27206@gonzo.wolfenet.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id VAA24722 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT), Orin Eman wrote: >For anyone interested in HV diode specs, visit the following: > >http://www.hvca.com WOW, choice morsel indeed! THANKS Orin. I'll swap ya for my two sources, both of which are used to build HV coil joiner devices for both singleFire and wasteFire IGN systems, widely used in racing and in eXperimental Aviation, to build dual-redundant IGN systems. In both cases the HV diodes below are used in microwave supplies and industrial X-ray machine HV supplies, environments that mean the devices, especially in the case of Xray HV supplies, must be dependable. These devices are on the order of a couple dollars, so they are NOT expensive to eXperiment with. Just make sure you don't electrocute yerself, eh? The MSD [singleFire] Coil "Selector" you've probably seen in their catalog, contains for each of it's two HV legs, 4 of the following in series: Fuji Electric FUJI ESJC07-12B available from Allied/Collmer The NSI (an eXperimental Aviation vendor and supplier of Fire Wall Forward components) WasteFire Coil Joiner Block, contains 6 of the following in series, on each of it's 2 legs (you need two NSI blocks to join two 4-cyl wasteFire IGN systems together for full dual redundancy): Fagor Electric FAGOR HVR5-12 available from Newark Both are 12KV diodes, the FAGOR has a noticeably lower forward bias voltage (e.g., 7V instead of 12V), suggesting it is actually made with fewer internal diode junctions than the FUJI. The information about what devices are used internally was given to our XA group, either by someone who works/worked for MSD, or someone who had seen the internals of the NSI block, so I *trust* this information, and have also obtained samples and played with each of these devices. I've also MEASURED the forward bias requirements for both devices, to confirm the number of diodes in series in the internal diode stacks. So I think this info is quite reliable. Thanks again, Orin. Ahh, I love it when the fractions add up! Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 21:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA24888 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:57:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA24884 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:57:55 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA4917 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:57:54 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: HV Diode Sources Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 18:58:58 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35d9fdb0.91077421@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <199806031932.MAA27206@gonzo.wolfenet.com> <35d7f7bd.89554671@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> In-Reply-To: <35d7f7bd.89554671@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id VAA24885 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 03 Jun 1998 18:50:33 -0700, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: >On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT), Orin Eman >wrote: > >>For anyone interested in HV diode specs, visit the following: >> >>http://www.hvca.com > >WOW, choice morsel indeed! THANKS Orin. I'll swap ya for my two sources, Just to sweeten the pot even more, NOT to mention cutting off the inevitable followup questions (hey, I don't blame ya, I'd wanna know too!), I've also posted a file that shows HOW these diodes and coil joiners are used to form dual-redundant IGN systems, just so you don't think we're just "crazy bout them diodes", for no reason at all. B) You'll find it in: ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/CoilJoiners.pcx Gar From diy_efi-owner Wed Jun 3 22:38:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25637 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:38:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25633 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:38:06 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp45-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.94]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA04114 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 22:34:17 -0400 Message-ID: <35760960.7CB3@huron.net> Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:41:36 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coil Quest Over (or just postponed?) References: <212E16F5DCE@ean2.mecheng.nottingham.ac.uk> <35a02d23.46281140@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35a74cd5.54395828@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35748753.3BD33DF7@brokersys.com> <3.0.3.32.19980604071546.007624bc@southern.co.nz> <35b2ae26.70715625@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:15:46 +1200, Mike Morrin > wrote: > > >At 08:28 3/06/98 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: > >>Just had an idea on the Nissan coils - anyone check them for continuity > >>at, say, 80 volts? Mabee, just mabee, they have a HV diode stack in > >>them? > > > >I think (although I was wrong once), that these (and some other > >distributor-less coils) have a series spark gap in them to simulate the > >effect of the distributor rotor to cap gap. This has the effect of > >sharpening the voltage rise time at the plugs, making them less prone to > >fouling. SNIPPP . And it wouldn't be the first time a Japanese company > followed Bosch's lead. B) > > Just some itinerant thots. > > Gar Actually, in some cases Bosch follows the Japs - Nippondenso licences a design from Bosch, improves it (that's what the japs do - they don't invent, they refine) and transfers the technology back to Bosch. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 00:29:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26547 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:29:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26543 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:29:42 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id A}A25065; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 00:29:27 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:14:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Message-ID: <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,13-14,17-18,30-31,35-39 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >See, with that lil tidbit he shared with me, and I simply pass along to >you, you are now prepared to explain EVERY single feature of the HV IGN >trace on a scope, should you ever be asked to do so at a cocktail party >or beer bust. The peaks, the ringing, the arc line, all make perfect >sense; and now the fuzz on the arc line does too! B) > >Gar Garfield, Thanks for the info. I hadn't even given a though to the arc line. I wonder if that line thickens when there is a knock. I should get with my mechanic friend and test this out. A capaciter to pick off the arc noise is a lot easier than a HV diode to read a current measured in microamps. Trivia: The earliest radio transmitters consisted of a spark gap and an antenna. Later, they refined it with a tank (parellel LC circuit) in parellel with the arc so that they could actually tune the thing. Anyhow, after sending my reply last night, I did do some thinking about the subject. I decided that I was barking up the wrong tree on some of it. Instead of looking at the sensor resistance, I decided to calculate the impedance of the spark gap. Based on your statement that the current is around a microamp, and the voltage is 80 or 400, the impedance of the gap is in the neighborhood of 80-400 meg ohms. Of course, it's this impedance that we are, in effect, measuring. While at work (I don't have access to the web at home, except for email), I looked at some of the URLs that I got off this list and found some secondary inductances quoted at 40 Hy or so. Taking the worst case (80 meg ohm and 50 Hy), I get a 3db frequency of around 150 KHz. That sounds kinda high... I think I'll double-check my math later when I'm less tired. Anyhow, I wasn't considering the ringing because I figured it would have to decay before we can get a good reading, anyhow. Also, I believe that the ringing is due to the primary and the condenser (as in points, plugs, condenser) forming a parellel LC circuit. Cheers, Ray Drouillard, KA8UUU _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 00:52:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26774 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:52:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tomcat.ns.net (root@tomcat.ns.net [209.162.64.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26770 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:52:44 -0400 Received: from tbone.ns.net (pm02-17.sac.verio.net [209.162.64.36]) by tomcat.ns.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA11540 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:52:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001501bd8f0f$e408b820$2440a2d1@tbone.ns.net> From: "Tyson McPherson" To: Subject: Re: 4D IAC motor Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:51:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a IAC motor off of a 4DI. It has this number printed on it: 53030657. I will see if this will cross to anything. Good luck, Tyson tyson@ns.net -----Original Message----- From: MJones To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 3:42 PM Subject: 4D IAC motor >Anybody know definitevely if the IAC motor as used on Holley's 4d/di is >interchangeable with any OEM type? Mine seems to be faulty -- it as often >as not sticks and won't pull idle down from 1500 rpms or so. It's covered >under warranty, but there is a two -three week wait for a new one. Since >it's only 25 bucks or so, so I'd like to just pop over to the local >Schuck's and pick up a suitable replacement. > >Barring that, I'll get the pintle into a suitable position and disconnect >it until the new one arrives. > > >Thanks, > >Mike J. > From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 02:55:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27523 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:55:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA27519 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:55:03 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-18.brokersys.com [209.113.60.19]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA31349 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 01:58:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3576454D.F1938198@brokersys.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 01:57:17 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > ... Instead of looking at the sensor resistance, I decided to calculate > the impedance of the spark gap. Based on your statement that the current > is around a microamp, and the voltage is 80 or 400, the impedance of the > gap is in the neighborhood of 80-400 meg ohms. Of course, it's this > impedance that we are, in effect, measuring. While at work (I don't have > access to the web at home, except for email), I looked at some of the > URLs that I got off this list and found some secondary inductances quoted > at 40 Hy or so. Taking the worst case (80 meg ohm and 50 Hy), I get a > 3db frequency of around 150 KHz. That sounds kinda high... I think I'll > double-check my math later when I'm less tired. > > Anyhow, I wasn't considering the ringing because I figured it would have > to decay before we can get a good reading, anyhow. Also, I believe that > the ringing is due to the primary and the condenser (as in points, plugs, > condenser) forming a parellel LC circuit. > > Cheers, > Ray Drouillard, KA8UUU > ..I get the same, ~150Khz. I have read that the Ion current measuring circuit should have a bandwidth of 10Khz (1). Maybe this is a way around the problem of 'electrostatic fouling' (2) when high bias voltages are used between electrodes. What if question: If you apply a 400v, 50Khz-100Khz ac signal as the 'bias'. Would this eliminate the fouling since the signal is ac? Then you could recover the Ion signal (like recovering a radio AM signal) with a diode and a 10Khz filter. The 400v is (supposedly) already available as the charging voltage for the cdi ignition. Walt (1) Pat 4,359,893 (2) Pat 4,862,093 From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 05:15:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28290 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 05:15:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28286 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 05:15:35 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA13723 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:15:34 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 02:16:38 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35805a67.16977546@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> In-Reply-To: <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id FAA28287 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:14:26 -0400, cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) wrote: >I should get with my >mechanic friend and test this out. A capaciter to pick off the arc noise >is a lot easier than a HV diode to read a current measured in microamps. If this "a lot easier than" is refering to ION measurements, again, this is NOT at all what is being measured in ION. The current across that plug when it's arcing is NOT, no how, "measured in microamps", it's orders of magnitude bigger. The current we're measuring with ION has NOTHING to do with the spark current. I've said this over and over now. OVER? We can't be having to go all the way back to ground zero on this. ION measures ionization current in the plasma that remains AFTER the flamefront, NOT the spark current. That's after BOTH the spark phase, and the flame propagation phase, have PASSED. I hope that comment above is intentionally comparing apples to oranges, but somehow I fear it may not be. Say it ain't so. >Taking the worst case (80 meg ohm and 50 Hy), I get a >3db frequency of around 150 KHz. That sounds kinda high... I think I'll >double-check my math later when I'm less tired. > >Anyhow, I wasn't considering the ringing because I figured it would have >to decay before we can get a good reading, anyhow. Yeah, but the secondary ringing is exactly what characterizes the IMPEDANCE of the secondary, which is how this whole canard worry of yours began. Go back to your intial post, and read your expressed worry, that the "reactive impedance of the coil" was gonna somehow effect ION's signals it was needing to measure. That's why I said even a cursory glance at the representative waveforms shows that the natural frequency of the coil's secondary is WAY above the frequency components in the ionization current; you can see that DIRECTLY on the graphs of the ion signals, WHEREVER they're drawn, patents or papers. That's why I gave you that URL AGAIN! >Also, I believe that >the ringing is due to the primary and the condenser (as in points, plugs, >condenser) forming a parellel LC circuit. This is not the domain of "belief", and the LC circuit that governs the impedance of the *secondary* has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the condenser in the primary, or if it's even there (many modern points-less IGNs don't even HAVE a capacitor there, instead they've got a protection flywheel/freewheel/flyback (whatever you wanna call it) diode there. Whether there's a condenser there or no, or even if the primary were to miraculously disappear once the field collapsed, the secondary still rings on, as soon as the arc is extinguished, because it's due to the SELF-RESONANCE of the secondary coil itself! This is a mistake someone else made, in trying to defend your concerns/questions in private. The LC circuit in the primary does NOT characterize the reactive impedance of the secondary. How on earth CAN it? The primary rings, the secondary rings; each would also ring were the other not even present, and they even ring at different times; the primary as soon as the primary circuit is opened, the secondary, as soon as the spark arc is extinguished. One of the things I think that's annoyed me about this whole topic of ION (thank God EGOR's technology was so far beyond us all but the electrochemical guys, that we couldn't even PRETEND to know stuff about how IT worked), and how she works, is that maybe this group has gotten into the habit of talking about things in way too fuzzy a manner, with glib quips on why this is why a certain thing works the way it does (I mean, look at the series of snake-oil topics recently hosted), and you just can't operate in this kinda wishy-washy mental fog, and discuss something like ION. It ain't really all that deep, but deep enough you just can't be confusing primary with secondary, the condenser in the primary with the capacitance in the secondary winding, and asking about frequency components in ION's signal while completely missing the evidence to answer those questions in pictures of the waveform itself. I mean, an electronics discussion isn't exactly the same as having a nice vague chat about the weather or politics, over coffee. There's just been too many cases of people talking about stuff they didn't understand the basics of, and posturing as tho they understood the more esoteric elements. Now, we wouldn't take too kindly to someone coming on this group and confusing 2-cycle and 4-cycle combustion, or equating that to 2-cyl vrs. 4-cyl, but that's been analogous to some of the gaffs and folly in some of these threads. I dunno, maybe I'm expecting too much, but hell's bells guys, if you don't know what ya don't know, you're gonna sound like a bozo mosta the time! It takes some baseline understanding of the E in EFI, to really talk about these things. I guess I was assuming too much about where that baseline really WAS. And maybe it's futile to try and raise it some, cuz if you wanna argue about it needing to be raised (a fact at this point that I think has been indisputable proven), as if I've been complaining too much about the screwups, then we're gonna be perpetually in this mode of one step forward, two steps back. I'm not saying AT ALL, that we all need to have EE degrees, but those that wanna engage in the electrical parts of the discussion oughta at LEAST have the basics of automotive electronics down reasonably well. An EFI group is not the place to be teaching these things; it's rather a given assumption that it's there already. My mistake to assume so? Maybe. If so, I'm sure a duck outtta water, ain't I? Gar From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 05:27:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28439 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 05:27:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28435 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 05:27:25 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA13864 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 02:27:23 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 02:28:27 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35826632.19996031@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <3576454D.F1938198@brokersys.com> In-Reply-To: <3576454D.F1938198@brokersys.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id FAA28436 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 01:57:17 -0500, Walter Petermann wrote: > ..I get the same, ~150Khz. I have read that the Ion >current measuring circuit should have a bandwidth of 10Khz I dunno about the absolute numbers, but ratio's in keeping with the appearance of the "representative signal waveforms" in that web page pix. Like I said before, it looks like the secondary's natural frequency is around 10X the ION current waveform, judging from the shape & rise/fall times of the ionization current. > (1). Maybe this is a way around the problem of 'electrostatic fouling' > (2) when high bias voltages are used between electrodes. > >What if question: >If you apply a 400v, 50Khz-100Khz ac signal as the 'bias'. >Would this eliminate the fouling since the signal is ac? >Then you could recover the Ion signal (like recovering a >radio AM signal) with a diode and a 10Khz filter. Hmm, now that's an interesting and novel idea; I don't think I've seen that ever suggested for getting around the "electrostatic fouling". Sure sounds like it might work, tho. Neat idea, worth trying, fer sure. Complicates the electronics a tad, but hey, that's not the point; the question is can you use ac to avoid the electrostatic effect? Now you're talking REAL research, dude. I guess that means you can count on spending alot of time proving out the idea. B) Gar From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 09:08:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29982 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:08:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29978 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:08:52 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp37-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.86]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21151 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:05:05 -0400 Message-ID: <35769D18.30F9@huron.net> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:11:52 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <35805a67.16977546@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:14:26 -0400, cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C > Drouillard) wrote: > > >I should get with my > >mechanic friend and test this out. A capaciter to pick off the arc noise > >is a lot easier than a HV diode to read a current measured in microamps. > > If this "a lot easier than" is refering to ION measurements, again, this > is NOT at all what is being measured in ION. The current across that > plug when it's arcing is NOT, no how, "measured in microamps", it's > orders of magnitude bigger. The current we're measuring with ION has > NOTHING to do with the spark current. I've said this over and over now. > OVER? We can't be having to go all the way back to ground zero on this. > ION measures ionization current in the plasma that remains AFTER the > flamefront, NOT the spark current. That's after BOTH the spark phase, > and the flame propagation phase, have PASSED. > > I hope that comment above is intentionally comparing apples to oranges, > but somehow I fear it may not be. Say it ain't so. > > >Taking the worst case (80 meg ohm and 50 Hy), I get a > >3db frequency of around 150 KHz. That sounds kinda high... I think I'll > >double-check my math later when I'm less tired. > > > >Anyhow, I wasn't considering the ringing because I figured it would have > >to decay before we can get a good reading, anyhow. > > Yeah, but the secondary ringing is exactly what characterizes the > IMPEDANCE of the secondary, which is how this whole canard worry of > yours began. Go back to your intial post, and read your expressed worry, > that the "reactive impedance of the coil" was gonna somehow effect ION's > signals it was needing to measure. That's why I said even a cursory > glance at the representative waveforms shows that the natural frequency > of the coil's secondary is WAY above the frequency components in the > ionization current; you can see that DIRECTLY on the graphs of the ion > signals, WHEREVER they're drawn, patents or papers. That's why I gave > you that URL AGAIN! > SNIPPPP Just a minute, guys. I'm no EE, but what has AC impedence got to do with a straight DC current measurement? By the time we are measuring this Ionization current, all we have running through this coil secondary is straight, flatline DC. No? This flat-line DC doesn't give a hoot what the impedence in Henries is as long as IT is not attempting to change at any great speed. I think we've got a bit of a red herring in the nets. Just my two Ngwe's worth -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 10:47:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA30821 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:47:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA30817 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:47:48 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-10.brokersys.com [209.113.60.11]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07323 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:50:54 -0500 Message-ID: <3576B406.13A3AA46@brokersys.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:49:42 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <3576454D.F1938198@brokersys.com> <35826632.19996031@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > ... > I guess that means you can count on spending alot of time proving out > the idea. B) > > Gar Yup, but I need to find single cylinder engine qiet enough to run in the apartment! Maybe a four stroke model plane engine with a REALLY big muffler :). Actually, shouldn't need an engine just to see if the plug would foul...there's plenty of cigarette smoke in here. We shall see! Walt From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 10:57:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA30932 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:57:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA30928 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 10:57:14 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA19582 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:57:11 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:58:16 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <357bb4ac.10978671@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <35805a67.16977546@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35769D18.30F9@huron.net> In-Reply-To: <35769D18.30F9@huron.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id KAA30929 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:11:52 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: >Just a minute, guys. I'm no EE, but what has AC impedence got to do with >a straight DC current measurement? By the time we are measuring this >Ionization current, all we have running through this coil secondary is >straight, flatline DC. No? This flat-line DC doesn't give a hoot what >the impedence in Henries is as long as IT is not attempting to change at >any great speed. I think we've got a bit of a red herring in the nets. > >Just my two Ngwe's worth Oh oh, there's about to be a sudden depreciation in Ngwe's. The ionization currents are a SIGNAL of varying value, so they are NOT DC, but have ac components. If you blocked them all, except for the average DC value, then you'd have no signal! You'd have, as you say, a flatline DC value, which wouldn't do you much good for detecting things happening with time. It's conventional to talk about the "frequency spectrum" of a signal if it is changing at all, and how that signal is passed/attenuated IS affected by the total impedance of a device in the path of the signal. The faster the signal changes, the higher the frequency components that make it up. Gar From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 11:15:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA31205 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:15:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from puce.one.net.au (puce.one.net.au [203.17.224.29]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA31200 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 11:15:08 -0400 Received: from nicks-pc ([203.101.5.70]) by puce.one.net.au (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA4C8C for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:11:18 +1000 Message-ID: <35649253.7D28@one.net.au> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:45:07 +0400 From: nluker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: weber efi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu hi everyone Ill answer the answers to my inquiry in order. Is it the Weber Alpha system which is sold as an after market system to fit Weber carb manifolds ? 1/ No i dont think this is the after market weber alpha system 2/If You need informations regarding the Eprom's program Maybe I can help You.. I had a look at the web page address you sent but it was all in italian do you have a address for an english version of this site? 3/What do you want to know in particular? What model is your car? My model is a july 89 maserati 4 door biturbo also known as a " biturbo 425i" It has a 2.5 litre V6 engine with twin turbo chargers .The car has 2 ecu's one is based on the weber speed density system which uses the rpm and air density to do its calculations the other one is based on the marelli microplex control unit one ecu looks after the knock sensor crank sensor camshaft sensor wastegates twin ignit. coils the other ecu looks after the six injectors fuel pump over rev cut throttle pot water temp sensor camshaft sensor crankshaft sensor air temp sensor absolute press sensor You'll notice that the cam and crank sensors are shown as going to both ecu's What I would like to learn is how do the 2 ecu's tie into each other ?if they do at all. Are the outputs from the crank & cam sensors sent to one then the other or are the ecu's simply wired in parrallel with the sensors outputs I have seen some circuits to tap into the wastegate signal and into the knock detect output of the earlier boost controllers to drive a couple of leds so you could tell when knock was occuring and then see the wastegates trigger. It also showed when over boost triggered the waste gates. The early controller was an analoge device and from what I read was also used in early saab turbo's. What I would dearly love would be a pin out of the 2 ecu's so i could do this circuit on thelater style ecu,s in my car my car will only go to 10 psi boost and then pull back to about 8 to 9 psi boost. From what every one tells me I should get at least 12 psi boost maybe a bit more so if there is a pin on the ecu that goes high/low when knock occurs it would make tracing this prob a lot easier (i.e. dead knock sensor, noisy valves or to low octaine fuel) The manual shows both ecu's with a test connector each. I have found these sockets on both ecu's but they contain only one wire each do they have to be grounded thru an opto coupler/resistor/LED etc to work? do they give out much info? (i.e. can I plug my lap top into them) And finally does any one know anything about downloading the info on the eproms in these ecu's and making some sense of it , like were the max boost value is. I have noticed that the later 2.8 litre cars have a ego sensor but that the 2.5 litre cars dont ( Ive also noticed they are listed as getting better M.P.G). Does this mean they run a different ecu? or just use more featueres of the same unit? any help any one can give would be greatly appreaciated nick luker From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 12:34:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA32373 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:34:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f74.hotmail.com [207.82.250.180]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA32368 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:34:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 560 invoked by uid 0); 4 Jun 1998 16:33:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19980604163350.559.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 157.22.213.98 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:33:50 PDT X-Originating-IP: [157.22.213.98] From: "MAF Attack" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: MAF references Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:33:50 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Whilst I were exploring me local pick u part, I experienced a moment of great light ( when that cyl head hit my gout inflamed foot ) and have developed an interest in Factory MAFs. What I am looking for is a pointer to information on Air Flow to Frequency MAFS used by GM on some of its engines. Would like references to learn more, in particular the shape of the calibration slope. I know that some of this has been covered, but not having a lifetime to dig thru the list archives, any CIVIL information, public or private would be appreciated. Thanks in advance Habeneros - not just for breakfast anymore!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 13:32:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00129 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:32:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from leary.huron.net (root@leary.huron.net [205.150.207.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00125 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:32:06 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (ppp34-ts2-kw.huron.net [205.150.207.83]) by leary.huron.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA02485 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:28:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3576DA6B.3D2D@huron.net> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 13:35:14 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <35805a67.16977546@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> <35769D18.30F9@huron.net> <357bb4ac.10978671@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > > On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:11:52 -0400, Clare Snyder > wrote: > > >Just a minute, guys. I'm no EE, but what has AC impedence got to do with > >a straight DC current measurement? By the time we are measuring this > >Ionization current, all we have running through this coil secondary is > >straight, flatline DC. No? This flat-line DC doesn't give a hoot what > >the impedence in Henries is as long as IT is not attempting to change at > >any great speed. I think we've got a bit of a red herring in the nets. > > > >Just my two Ngwe's worth > > Oh oh, there's about to be a sudden depreciation in Ngwe's. > > The ionization currents are a SIGNAL of varying value, so they are NOT > DC, but have ac components. If you blocked them all, except for the > average DC value, then you'd have no signal! You'd have, as you say, a > flatline DC value, which wouldn't do you much good for detecting things > happening with time. > > It's conventional to talk about the "frequency spectrum" of a signal if > it is changing at all, and how that signal is passed/attenuated IS > affected by the total impedance of a device in the path of the signal. > The faster the signal changes, the higher the frequency components that > make it up. > > Gar OK, I understand better now. As for depreciating the Ngwe, its worth about what a Kwatcha was 20 years ago. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back E-Mail service is back to normal To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca OR Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the spammers!!! It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of Turkeys!!! From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 14:20:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00603 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:20:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00599 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:20:01 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id OAA11313 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:18:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: MAF references Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:21:17 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd8fe5$9077e060$1f198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: MAF references What I am looking for is a >pointer to information on Air Flow to Frequency MAFS used by GM on some >of its engines. Would like references to learn more, in particular the >shape of the calibration slope. > As I recall there are two frequency ranges, one for hot-wire, and one for hot-foil. Both were/are used by gm. I've never seen that I recall the freq per grams/second, that I can recall. Upper and lower limits have been mentioned. If anyone has a location for one is (the cals.) I'd like to hear about it, to.. HTH a little Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 15:07:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01155 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:07:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.tantech.com ([206.130.240.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA01151 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:06:57 -0400 Received: by problem.tantech.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #25) id m0yhfQH-0000WTC; Thu, 4 Jun 98 15:11 EDT Message-Id: Subject: OBD II info To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:11:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: <35769D18.30F9@huron.net> from "Clare Snyder" at Jun 4, 98 09:11:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu just grabbed this from another list I have the 1996 Ford powertrain manual (PTM), and it has a fair amount of info on the OBD II stuff including: - Pinout on the Data Link Connector (DLC). - Descriptions of the Parameter IDs (PID). - Description of the communication codes to tell the Diagnostic tools to perform tests such as the KOER test. - The Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) for all 96 Fords which may apply to other years. What it doesn't have is the communication protocols for talking to the On Board Computer through the DLC, soooo...I did a little poking around at the SAE web site and I found the following pertinent docs: http://www.sae.org/PRODSERV/stds/J2201.htm - OBD-II interface description http://www.sae.org/PRODSERV/stds/J1850.htm - Communications protocol Each of those docs is $62. Now, I'm not overly motivated to shell out $60 Well, I did a little more surfing and found: http://chimera.acs.ttu.edu/~z7d23/research.html which seems to be a copy of J2201. This mentions that there are 3 possible communication protocols that a DLC can connect on (two of which are J1850 variants, the third is an ISO communications standard). I also found: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/archive/archive_num_60 which mentions that someone else is working on building a scan tool. Might want to talk to them. I'll be happy to share the info that is in the PTM with anyone who's willing to help with a "low cost" scan tool project, but it's 60-odd pages of info, so faxing it around the internet isn't exactly practical. The DLC pinout is described in the middle of http://chimera.acs.ttu.edu/~z7d23/research.html Feel free to forward all or part of this message to anyone else who might help this project along. Seth Mleziva From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 15:37:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA01525 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:37:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA01521 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:37:04 -0400 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id HAA09911; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 07:36:59 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ppp118.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.118) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma009900; Fri, 5 Jun 98 07:36:36 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980605073919.0077bb34@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 07:39:19 +1200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Coils for Ion In-Reply-To: <35805a67.16977546@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 02:16 4/06/98 -0700, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: >On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:14:26 -0400, cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C >Drouillard) wrote: > > >>Also, I believe that >>the ringing is due to the primary and the condenser (as in points, plugs, >>condenser) forming a parellel LC circuit. > >This is not the domain of "belief", and the LC circuit that governs the >impedance of the *secondary* has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the >condenser in the primary, or if it's even there (many modern points-less >IGNs don't even HAVE a capacitor there, instead they've got a protection >flywheel/freewheel/flyback (whatever you wanna call it) diode there. > >Whether there's a condenser there or no, or even if the primary were to >miraculously disappear once the field collapsed, the secondary still >rings on, as soon as the arc is extinguished, because it's due to the >SELF-RESONANCE of the secondary coil itself! This is a mistake someone >else made, in trying to defend your concerns/questions in private. The >LC circuit in the primary does NOT characterize the reactive impedance >of the secondary. How on earth CAN it? The primary rings, the secondary >rings; each would also ring were the other not even present, and they >even ring at different times; the primary as soon as the primary circuit >is opened, the secondary, as soon as the spark arc is extinguished. Point of order... You are wrong. The impedance (i.e capacitor) on the primary is transformed to appear at the secondary scaled by the square of the turns ratio. I don't think the primary circuit is of practical significance here, but it does partly define the seconday impedance (and vice versa). > >One of the things I think that's annoyed me about this whole topic of >ION (thank God EGOR's technology was so far beyond us all but the >electrochemical guys, that we couldn't even PRETEND to know stuff about >how IT worked), and how she works, is that maybe this group has gotten >into the habit of talking about things in way too fuzzy a manner, with >glib quips on why this is why a certain thing works the way it does (I >mean, look at the series of snake-oil topics recently hosted), and you >just can't operate in this kinda wishy-washy mental fog, and discuss >something like ION. It ain't really all that deep, but deep enough you >just can't be confusing primary with secondary, the condenser in the >primary with the capacitance in the secondary winding, and asking about >frequency components in ION's signal while completely missing the >evidence to answer those questions in pictures of the waveform itself. I >mean, an electronics discussion isn't exactly the same as having a nice >vague chat about the weather or politics, over coffee. > >There's just been too many cases of people talking about stuff they >didn't understand the basics of, and posturing as tho they understood >the more esoteric elements. I agreee entirely. best regards, Mike Morin From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 16:56:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02396 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:56:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from arl-img-2.compuserve.com (arl-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.132]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02391 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:56:56 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.11) id QAA09175 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:56:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:49:54 -0400 From: Tim Ganger Subject: Re:Tech1 scan tool To: "INTERNET:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Message-ID: <199806041650_MC2-3F3A-5AF9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id QAA02392 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message text written by INTERNET:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >do any fo you guys use the vortronics tehc1 in the US. we use it on the holden, opel/vauxhall & isuzu, although it has beed updated by the tech2 which is all upgradeable by cd-rom not eprom. im trying to get a hold of some eprom images from the tech1 for the us stuff. im told that chrysler and ford use it on some cars as qwell as chev ???< Justin I have all the prom images for the tech1through 94. At tha point the tech 1 used a Mas Storage Cartrge the was updated each mounth form the CAMS machine. Where do you what these e-mailed to. GM quit supportting the tech 1 in Oct of 96 best I recall. I will look around I think I still have that CD with the latest files for the tech 1 I can pull off and e-mail to you if you like. Tim Ganger From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 17:13:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA02538 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:13:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rs422.bb-elec.com ([206.1.0.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA02534 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:13:27 -0400 Received: from mfahrion.bb-elec.com ([206.1.0.170]) by rs422.bb-elec.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 103-48821U100L100S0) with SMTP id AAA257 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:13:05 -0500 From: "Mike Fahrion" To: Subject: Re: OBD II info Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:13:04 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd8ffd$902fee00$aa0001ce@mfahrion.bb-elec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > http://www.sae.org/PRODSERV/stds/J2201.htm - OBD-II interface description > http://www.sae.org/PRODSERV/stds/J1850.htm - Communications protocol > >Each of those docs is $62. Now, I'm not overly motivated to shell out $60 If you do get motivated to do it, spend $75 instead to purchase SAE's HS-3000 1998. This is a bargain (relatively), it has *every* spec related to OBDII you'll ever need, except for the ISO 9141 stuff but Ford doesn't use that anyway. >Well, I did a little more surfing and found: > > http://chimera.acs.ttu.edu/~z7d23/research.html > >which seems to be a copy of J2201. This mentions that there are 3 possible >communication protocols that a DLC can connect on (two of which are J1850 >variants, the third is an ISO communications standard). I also found: Three hardware layers are allowed for use in OBDII, from a hardware point of view, they have pretty much nothing in common with each other. SAE J1850 VPW - used by domestic GM's SAE J1850 PWM - used by domestic Fords ISO-9141 used by Chrysler and most imports As with every sure thing, there are some exceptions - there's further info on this at www.obdii.com -mike From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 19:00:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03395 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:00:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kla-tencor.com (mail01.kla-tencor.com [206.67.220.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03390 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:59:51 -0400 Received: from milxbh03.kla-tencor.com by kla-tencor.com (8.8.5/KLA-Tencor.3.6irm) id PAA26314; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by MILXBH03 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2217.0) id ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 15:59:41 -0700 Message-ID: <933713F1FB7BD111AC2300A0C98F1AD1775394@MILXPR06> From: "Buchholz, Steven" To: "'DIY-EFI'" Subject: References for EFI tweaking Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:02:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2217.0) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Can anyone recommend a good reference for techniques for adjusting timing and fuel maps in EFI systems? I checked the DIY-EFI homepage reference link ... but it seems to be no longer valid. I am looking for info that would help figure out the right way to deal with flat spots in performance, surging and that sort of issue. This would be for a Bosch Motronic system ... BTW, do all Motronic systems use the same processor? How consistent are things like I/O mappings in the different versions? The processor in the one that I'm adjusting has what appears to be some sort of proprietary number ... I'd like to know what the instruction set is ... Final question ... I suppose that the debug process would be simpler with some sort of ROM emulator. Are there any available that run on 12 volts and emulate a 27C256 device? TIA! Steve Buchholz San Jose, CA (USA) From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 19:03:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03445 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:03:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03439 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:03:23 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp26.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.156]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA07659 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:03:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3576E198.35519D37@mwt.net> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 13:04:09 -0500 From: Steven Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OBD II info References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm a SAE member sometimes the stuff is cheaper that way. I will order it if you want. Just contact me off line. Steve Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > just grabbed this from another list > > I have the 1996 Ford powertrain manual (PTM), and it has a fair amount > of info on the OBD II stuff including: > > - Pinout on the Data Link Connector (DLC). > - Descriptions of the Parameter IDs (PID). > - Description of the communication codes to tell the Diagnostic tools to > perform tests such as the KOER test. > - The Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) for all 96 Fords which may apply to > other years. > > What it doesn't have is the communication protocols for talking to the > On Board Computer through the DLC, soooo...I did a little poking around > at the SAE web site and I found the following pertinent docs: > > http://www.sae.org/PRODSERV/stds/J2201.htm - OBD-II interface description > http://www.sae.org/PRODSERV/stds/J1850.htm - Communications protocol > > Each of those docs is $62. Now, I'm not overly motivated to shell out $60 > > Well, I did a little more surfing and found: > > http://chimera.acs.ttu.edu/~z7d23/research.html > > which seems to be a copy of J2201. This mentions that there are 3 possible > communication protocols that a DLC can connect on (two of which are J1850 > variants, the third is an ISO communications standard). I also found: > > http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/archive/archive_num_60 > > which mentions that someone else is working on building a scan tool. Might > want to talk to them. > > I'll be happy to share the info that is in the PTM with anyone who's willing > to help with a "low cost" scan tool project, but it's 60-odd pages of info, > so faxing it around the internet isn't exactly practical. The DLC pinout is > described in the middle of http://chimera.acs.ttu.edu/~z7d23/research.html > > Feel free to forward all or part of this message to anyone else who might help > this project along. > > Seth Mleziva From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 19:04:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA03480 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:04:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA03476 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:04:50 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA9852 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:04:50 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:05:54 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35922458.39566421@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <3.0.3.32.19980605073919.0077bb34@southern.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980605073919.0077bb34@southern.co.nz> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id TAA03477 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 05 Jun 1998 07:39:19 +1200, Mike Morrin wrote: >Point of order... You are wrong. > >The impedance (i.e capacitor) on the primary is transformed to appear at >the secondary scaled by the square of the turns ratio. > >I don't think the primary circuit is of practical significance here, but it >does partly define the seconday impedance (and vice versa). Yes, I stand corrected. That's true. Not only that, but IF the condensor were removed (and no protection diode were substituted), the waveform in the primary would be significantly altered (a lot more ringing), and this would be of course be reflected into the secondary, too! Now that you've made several people's day, Mike, (hee) I still havta say that the impedance the ionization signal sees (which WAS the issue raised) is completely dominated by the intrinsic uncoupled impedance of the secondary inductance and it's own winding capacitance. What these guys were proposing is that the L & C of importance, was the L of the secondary and the C of the primary, cuz at least one bloak was saying he WAS able to compute the impedance of the secondary by using the primary condenser value directly. NOT. I overstated the case to say that the primary condensor had NO effect on the secondary impedance. Ahhh, I'm MUCH happier now. Nobody can now accuse me of either being or feigning infallibility OR an incorrigible attitude. Heh heh. Thanks, Mike! "Faithful are the wounds of a friend." Old Proverb. B) Gar From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 20:35:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04432 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:35:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from silver.hkabc.net (silver.hkabc.net [202.73.252.65]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04427 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:35:37 -0400 Received: from wilman.khabc.net (ppp253138.hkabc.net [202.73.253.138]) by silver.hkabc.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19938 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:34:47 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199806050034.IAA19938@silver.hkabc.net> From: "Wilman Lee" To: Subject: Re: weber efi Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:28:08 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ---------- > From: nluker > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: weber efi > Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 4:45 AM > > hi everyone > Ill answer the answers to my inquiry in order. > > Is it the Weber Alpha system which is sold as an after market system to > fit Weber carb manifolds ? > > > 1/ No i dont think this is the after market weber alpha system > > 2/If You need informations regarding the Eprom's program Maybe I can > help You.. > > I had a look at the web page address you sent but it was all in italian > do you have a address for an english version of this site? > > 3/What do you want to know in particular? > What model is your car? > > My model is a july 89 maserati 4 door biturbo also known as a " biturbo > 425i" > It has a 2.5 litre V6 engine with twin turbo chargers .The car has 2 > ecu's one is based on the weber speed density system which uses the rpm > and air density to do its calculations the other one is based on the > marelli microplex control unit > one ecu looks after the > knock sensor > crank sensor > camshaft sensor > wastegates > twin ignit. coils > > the other ecu looks after the > six injectors > fuel pump > over rev cut > throttle pot > water temp sensor > camshaft sensor > crankshaft sensor > air temp sensor > absolute press sensor > You'll notice that the cam and crank sensors are shown as going to both > ecu's > What I would like to learn is how do the 2 ecu's tie into each other ?if > they do at all. Are the outputs from the crank & cam sensors sent to one > then the other or are the ecu's simply wired in parrallel with the > sensors outputs According to my memory, the two ECU are quite separate and use common sensors to get engine information. One ECU controls the fuelling and the other controls the ignition and amal valve (boost). > I have seen some circuits to tap into the wastegate signal and into the > knock detect output of the earlier boost controllers to drive a couple > of leds so you could tell when knock was occuring and then see the > wastegates trigger. It also showed when over boost triggered the waste > gates. The early controller was an analoge device and from what I read > was also used in early saab turbo's. > > What I would dearly love would be a pin out of the 2 ecu's so i could > do this circuit on thelater style ecu,s > in my car > my car will only go to 10 psi boost and then pull back to about 8 to 9 > psi boost. From what every one tells me I should get at least 12 psi > boost maybe a bit more so if there is a pin on the ecu that goes > high/low when knock occurs it would make tracing this prob a lot easier > (i.e. dead knock sensor, noisy valves or to low octaine fuel) Is your car a manual or automatic? According to our experience, the auto car runs a lower max boost. Your can try to increase the boost by simply disconnecting the two pin connector on the amal valve and plumb in a bleed valve between the waste gate actuators and and the amal valve. Using the bleed valve, you should be able to adjust max boost level on the road using third or fourth gear flat out. If it is an auto, use 2 gear and left foot braking, but not for more than 5 secs. > The manual shows both ecu's with a test connector each. I have found > these sockets on both ecu's but they contain only one wire each do they > have to be grounded thru an opto coupler/resistor/LED etc to work? do > they give out much info? (i.e. can I plug my lap top into them) > And finally does any one know anything about downloading the info on > the eproms in these ecu's and making some sense of it , like were the > max boost value is. > I have noticed that the later 2.8 litre cars have a ego sensor but that > the 2.5 litre cars dont ( Ive also noticed they are listed as getting > better M.P.G). Does this mean they run a different ecu? or just use more > featueres of the same unit? All 425s here has carbs rather than injection. Late 430's use a single ECU to control everything and has a lambda sensor but this system is actually worse than the twin ECU system. I believe that there is a fault in the factory mapping particularly at idle and low throttle angle. Self-diagnostic capability is very poor on earlier models and it is only limited to fault code reading even if you are using factory diagnostic equipment. The latest Ghibli and Quottroporte use twin ECU's again but now one ECU controls one bank of cylinders and they are identical and interchangeable. Diagnostic on the latter cars are much more clever. You can use a laptop together with a Maserati tester to read all running values plus checking the ABS, and Airbag systems. > any help any one can give would be greatly appreaciated > nick luker > From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 20:59:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04628 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:59:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (kauri.lincoln.ac.nz [138.75.10.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04623 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:59:01 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.1-9 #1) with ESMTP id <0EU200JPY022X9@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:58:53 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.40); Fri, 05 Jun 1998 12:58:03 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.40); Fri, 05 Jun 1998 12:57:07 +1200 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 12:57:00 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Ignition Problem To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <0EU200JPZ022X9@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All I think I have finally tracked down my bad idle problem.....only now I have to fix it..... The engine doesn't want to idle smoothly under 1000rpm The compression check was good. The timing is good. With the timing light connected to the coil lead I could see it dropping spark now and then (no pattern) So I connected works fluke scopemeter up to the -ve of the coil and this is what I saw..... http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/coilpuls.jpg I have a few things connected to the same power source as the ignition. have a look at.... http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/power.jpg I'm pretty sure the problem isn't on the 12v side as the power looked smooth and when I put a 12,000mfd 65v capacitor across the power it made no difference to the signal or the running of the engine. Is there any way that I can check the ignition module ? Cheers Simon My efi unit gets the injector fire signal from the -ve of the coil and I'm wondering if the efi unit is causing the problem ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Computing and Educational Resources LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 21:42:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05008 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:42:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05003 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 21:42:15 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id V|Z25065; Thu, 04 Jun 1998 21:39:14 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 20:44:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Coils for Ion Message-ID: <19980604.213831.16342.2.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-10,12-13,15-18,20,22-26,28-35,37-39,41-58,66-67, 72-76,78-93 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 09:11:52 -0400 Clare Snyder writes: >garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: >> >> On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 00:14:26 -0400, cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C >> Drouillard) wrote: >> >> >I should get with my >> >mechanic friend and test this out. A capaciter to pick off the arc >noise >> >is a lot easier than a HV diode to read a current measured in microamps. >> >> If this "a lot easier than" is refering to ION measurements, again, this >> is NOT at all what is being measured in ION. The current across that >> plug when it's arcing is NOT, no how, "measured in microamps", it's >> orders of magnitude bigger. The current we're measuring with ION has >> NOTHING to do with the spark current. I've said this over and over now. >> OVER? We can't be having to go all the way back to ground zero on this. >> ION measures ionization current in the plasma that remains AFTER the >> flamefront, NOT the spark current. That's after BOTH the spark phase, >> and the flame propagation phase, have PASSED. >> >> I hope that comment above is intentionally comparing apples to oranges, >> but somehow I fear it may not be. Say it ain't so. I humbly go back to my comment about being tired. Oh well... >> >> >Taking the worst case (80 meg ohm and 50 Hy), I get a >> >3db frequency of around 150 KHz. That sounds kinda high... I think I'll >> >double-check my math later when I'm less tired. >> > >> >Anyhow, I wasn't considering the ringing because I figured it would have >> >to decay before we can get a good reading, anyhow. More snipp >SNIPPPP > >Just a minute, guys. I'm no EE, but what has AC impedence got to do with >a straight DC current measurement? By the time we are measuring this >Ionization current, all we have running through this coil secondary is >straight, flatline DC. No? This flat-line DC doesn't give a hoot what >the impedence in Henries is as long as IT is not attempting to change at >any great speed. I think we've got a bit of a red herring in the nets. > >Just my two Ngwe's worth Two points: 1) The ionization (and hence the current) will be available only briefly. We're not talking about a sinusoidal signal or anything like that, but the fact that the signal is changing gives it an AC component. My origional concern was that the big whopping inductance of the secondary would not allow that change to be seen on the other side of the coil. That concern turned out to be largely unfounded because the inductive reactance of the coil is small compared to the impedance (resistance) of the spark gap. 2) Often, someone speaking of a nonlinear resistance will use the term "impedance". This may not be exactly correct, but it keeps the listener from making the assumption that a standard linear resistance is being discussed. To be truthful, I don't know if the ionization resistance of the spark gap is linear. Ray Drouillard P.S. We don't need to insult each other. This point is tossed out in general, and is not directed at Clare. >-- > _/\_ > --|-----([])-----|-- > S 0/ \0 B > Alls well that ends well!! www.snyder.on.ca is back > E-Mail service is back to normal > To avoid bouncing E-Mail messages > Reply to Clare@snyder.on.ca > OR >Remove the R from clsnyder in my E-Mail Address to reply. Stop the >spammers!!! >It's hard to soar like an eagle when your stuck with a bunch of >Turkeys!!! > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 22:22:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA05583 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:22:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.37]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA05579 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:22:54 -0400 From: AJLegere@aol.com Received: from AJLegere@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7LIFa05134 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:22:14 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c8c4561.35775657@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:22:14 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: US Patent searches Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The best place on the planet (no joke) is at www.patents.ibm.com. It's free, reliable and the search engine is powerful. Try it out. AJL From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 22:56:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA05983 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:56:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA05979 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:56:35 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA17301; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:56:34 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, questeds@whio.lincoln.ac.nz Subject: Re: Ignition Problem Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 19:57:39 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35a552d4.51466546@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <0EU200JPZ022X9@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <0EU200JPZ022X9@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id WAA05980 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 05 Jun 1998 12:57:00 +1200, Simon Quested wrote: >So I connected works fluke scopemeter up to the -ve of the coil and >this is what I saw..... >http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/coilpuls.jpg [posted and emailed] That looks distinctly like the primary voltage waveform of a dwell-limiting style module, driving the primary. You can see the low side driver pulling the -Coil (that's I presume your -ve signal) terminal down to near gnd, then you can see the not-so-tight current limiter start to reign in the coil current (voltage starts creeping up toward +12), and then that second jump is when it goes into a harder current limit mode (I presume once the coil is saturated); a little more time and the coil fires. As lumpy as the current limiting looks, it still looks like the low-side driver and timing signal to it is working right, and the current limit derived primary waveform seems pretty uniform, so that looks OK. BUT, on all of the "shorties" there, you can actually see that something is pulling the coil primary back down toward gnd, and in two of the cases, actually does make it pulling the primary all the way back to gnd, with even a little undershoot below gnd. This looks like avalance breakdown. This is gonna put the brakes on the field collapse, and probably severely limit the HV in the secondary. You should be able to also trace the secondary waveform with a couple winds of wire around the plug wires, and when one of these shorties get's really arrested all the way back to ground, you should notice a very crummy HV spike, I would think. If I had to GUESS, I'd say something is breaking down intermittently as the primary voltage fly's back as the field collapses, either the module's output driver transistor, OR the protection diode, OR, since this signal (don't ask me WHY, it should be well clipped I'd think before going anywhere else) goes to your EFI stuff, the receiver on that end should ALSO be suspect as breaking down and avalanching toward gnd. >Is there any way that I can check the ignition module? Say more about the construction of this gizmo. The "transistorized IGN", does it indeed have a separate module? Seems your diagnostic difficulty is you can't remove the EFI attachment to this -ve signal or whatever it is, without killing the engine, so it's sorta like the problem of multiple drivers on a bus; who's clobbering the bus? Only, in this case it's multiple loads, one of which may be breaking down and glitching the coil primary back to gnd. I s'pose you could try buffering the signal feed to the EFI unit, to exhonerate it. If it's got a proper GM module inside the IGN box, something musta really clobbered it, cuz the GM modules all have a hefty transorb attached to their output darlingtons. The other thing I would ask is, has this setup EVER idled OK? If not, I'd kinda tend to suspect the breakdown occuring elsewhere than the IGN drivers, cuz they shouldn't be weak right outta the box. If that EFI unit wasn't meant to see the peaks on a primary IGN coil, which can be pretty good sized (is that an actual 10v/div I'm seeing, then the protection diode when it's getting to work is at around 60V), but it looks like alot of the time something is breaking down at around 30-40V, then it could have been breaking down intermittently from the beginning, and gradually getting worse as it heads toward toast-heaven. >My efi unit gets the injector fire signal from the -ve of the coil and >I'm wondering if the efi unit is causing the problem It's a possibility, I would think. But ya know how this armchair diagnostics can go; you probably will find it's something TOTALLY different and unrelated. Sure looks like breakdown to me, tho. Just me dos centavos, amigo. Gar From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 23:48:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06550 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:48:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from puce.one.net.au (puce.one.net.au [203.17.224.29]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06546 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:48:21 -0400 Received: from nicks-pc ([203.101.10.83]) by puce.one.net.au (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAA3B10 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:45:50 +1000 Message-ID: <356547F2.77C2@one.net.au> Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:40:02 +0400 From: nluker X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: weber efi Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks wilman and espen My car is a auto so maybe thata why I cant pull more than a peak of 10psi boost. On the turbo gauge this is the start of the yellow range. "I believe that there is a fault in the factory mapping particularly at idle and low throttle angle'" Yes i agree I think the duty cycle of the injectors is to high when cruising on a light throttle. The best we get on our car is 18 m.p.g.(imperial gallons) 90% of the cars driving is on country roads at a fairly constant 50 to 60 mph on a very light throttle. I have finally got my hands on a volt meter with a duty cycle function so will do some testing this weekend to see if this is true. I have defeated the amal wastegate valve as a test once by disconnecting the hose nearest the fire wall (hose W) and the car produced around 18 pounds boost. It went quite well for 10 minutes and then blew the turbo hoses off ! The boost gauge in the car was up at the 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock position. This means the turbos are up to the job but without being able to monitor the knock detect signal some how I am reluctant to put a bleed valve on this hose as the ecu,s ability to reduce boost when knocking occurds would be reduced. So if i could re write the max boost value I would achieve a better solution. yours nick luker From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 23:54:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06648 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:54:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06643 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:53:58 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-48.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.66]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id XAA07658 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:52:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Ignition Problem Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:55:15 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd9035$bf83e340$42198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition Problem >>http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/coilpuls.jpg > Well, I can't even begin to read that pattern on this little screen, but I'd first verify the mechanical condition of that engine, ie compression check, and closely inspect the plugs. From what little I could see if that is a 4 cylinder ya might have a dead hole, ie open plug wire burnt valve. Now mind ya I'm used to looking at it from the sec. side if I understand what ya got going. Well between me and Gar ya got .04, three more opinions and you'll have a pretty shiny dime, Cheers Bruce Mowing the yard today, while wearing my Cone Shaped Hat I found a car..... From diy_efi-owner Thu Jun 4 23:54:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06653 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:54:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06649 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:54:02 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-50.brokersys.com [209.113.60.51]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15705 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:57:16 -0500 Message-ID: <35776C5F.BE5DAC71@brokersys.com> Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 22:56:15 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Coils for Ion References: <01bd8d86$5b6dd2a0$20198fd1@nacelp> <19980604.002903.3654.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <3576454D.F1938198@brokersys.com> <35826632.19996031@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu garfield@pilgrimhouse.com wrote: > ... > I guess that means you can count on spending alot of time proving out > the idea. B) > > Gar Gar, I went shopping for parts at the local surplus store. Came home with megatransformer 110->800, 1000v diode bridge, .5uF 1000V cap, 5Meg 2W resistor AND a spark plug..also a nice plastic case to mount it all in. Also got a switch to select between DC (400V) or ac 800V. I'll test how good it is at collecting dust at DC vs 60Hz for now. I just have a general question, for anyone... 5Meg resistor in series with the secondary should make it fairly safe in case of accidental contact? There is a 1.5A fuse on the primary. All the switches are in plastic cases with plastic buttons. Walt From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 01:52:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA08077 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:52:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08073 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 01:52:36 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA21145 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:52:36 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition Problem Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 22:53:37 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <35b587a9.64991250@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <01bd9035$bf83e340$42198fd1@nacelp> In-Reply-To: <01bd9035$bf83e340$42198fd1@nacelp> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id BAA08074 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:55:15 -0400, "Bruce Plecan" wrote: >Bruce Mowing the yard today, while wearing my Cone Shaped Hat > I found a car..... Hehehehehe. Was it still running!? B) From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 04:26:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09143 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:26:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from crianlarich.indigo-avs.com (crianlarich.indigo-avs.com [194.200.210.254]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA09139 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:25:57 -0400 Received: by crianlarich.indigo-avs.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) id <01BD9063.6EF4C920@crianlarich.indigo-avs.com>; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:22:17 +0100 Message-ID: From: Robert Humphris To: "'Fuel Injection List'" Subject: Airspeed question Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:22:15 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5 Encoding: 27 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Fellow EFi'ers As the techincal advisor of the Renault 5 GT Turbo owners club, I have often heard some strange tales, many of which turn out to be utter rubish. But last night I heard something that I cannot decide upon, and I would like to ask the amassed knowledge in this list their opinion. Now we all know that flow is important in NA engines, with Turbo engines airspeed is just as important if not more so. So with this in mind one of the members was asking a porting shop about their mods to carb and manifold. They said that they were 70% up on standard flow... which they claim to be able to prove, so we will leave it at that... The bit that I am not sure about is on the subject of airflow, when questioned they said that "When you put the carb and manifold on the flowbench it whistles. Air only starts to whistle at 300mph, so we know that the airspeed is greater than 300mph..." Now this seems to be quite a claim... And I have never heard such a thing before. Is this true? or not true, if so why? Obviously I have a mission to trash any bogus claims from tuning companies as the members of the club shouldn't be tricked into parting with their cash, so you advice will be received greatfully. Cheers Rob Humphris From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 08:35:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10572 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:35:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10568 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:35:36 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-211.nordson.com [207.206.59.211]) by users.qual.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/CICnet/IAG) with SMTP id IAA28862 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000c01bd907d$ccf32340$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Airspeed question Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:30:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have never heard that air whistles only at over 300 mph. Even if this were true, the ports could have some local eddies that cause whistling even though the velocity in the middle of the port is much less. Gary Derian -----Original Message----- From: Robert Humphris >Fellow EFi'ers > >As the techincal advisor of the Renault 5 GT Turbo owners club, I have >often heard some strange tales, many of which turn out to be utter >rubish. But last night I heard something that I cannot decide upon, and >I would like to ask the amassed knowledge in this list their opinion. > >Now we all know that flow is important in NA engines, with Turbo engines >airspeed is just as important if not more so. So with this in mind one >of the members was asking a porting shop about their mods to carb and >manifold. They said that they were 70% up on standard flow... which >they claim to be able to prove, so we will leave it at that... The bit >that I am not sure about is on the subject of airflow, when questioned >they said that "When you put the carb and manifold on the flowbench it >whistles. Air only starts to whistle at 300mph, so we know that the >airspeed is greater than 300mph..." > >Now this seems to be quite a claim... And I have never heard such a >thing before. Is this true? or not true, if so why? > >Obviously I have a mission to trash any bogus claims from tuning >companies as the members of the club shouldn't be tricked into parting >with their cash, so you advice will be received greatfully. > >Cheers > >Rob Humphris From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 09:30:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA11035 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:30:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from soleil.acomp.usf.edu (soleil.acomp.usf.edu [131.247.100.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11029 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:30:47 -0400 Received: from centauri (tampappp53.net.usf.edu [131.247.166.53]) by soleil.acomp.usf.edu (8.8.8/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA16861 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199806051332.JAA16861@soleil.acomp.usf.edu> From: "Jake Lindeke" Organization: Supra Owners Group International To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:37:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Airspeed question Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Fellow EFi'ers > > As the techincal advisor of the Renault 5 GT Turbo owners club, I have > often heard some strange tales, many of which turn out to be utter rubish. > But last night I heard something that I cannot decide upon, and I would > like to ask the amassed knowledge in this list their opinion. > > Now we all know that flow is important in NA engines, with Turbo engines > airspeed is just as important if not more so. So with this in mind one > of the members was asking a porting shop about their mods to carb and > manifold. They said that they were 70% up on standard flow... which they > claim to be able to prove, so we will leave it at that... The bit that I > am not sure about is on the subject of airflow, when questioned they said > that "When you put the carb and manifold on the flowbench it whistles. > Air only starts to whistle at 300mph, so we know that the airspeed is > greater than 300mph..." > > Now this seems to be quite a claim... And I have never heard such a > thing before. Is this true? or not true, if so why? > > Obviously I have a mission to trash any bogus claims from tuning > companies as the members of the club shouldn't be tricked into parting > with their cash, so you advice will be received greatfully. > > Cheers > > Rob Humphris I think part of your problem with this is that you are incorrect abotu the air speed required for a whistle effect. have you ever blown on a whistle it takes lots less then 300 miles per hour of air speed to creat that sound accually if you put in in your mouth and bairley blow on it it will still make the noise. i think there is a similar effect going on inside the carb or manafold and the test took place at much lower speeds then 300mph. thats my guess from what you said. --Jake Lindeke --SOGI South-East Chapter Coordinator --http://sesogi.bsfh.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 09:38:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA11114 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:38:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@pop3.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11110 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:38:18 -0400 Received: from terryk (tahoe-d52.foothill.net [209.76.43.52]) by ns1.foothill.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA17134 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:36:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "TBK" To: Subject: Re: Airspeed question Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:36:15 -0700 Message-ID: <01bd9086$e977c580$342b4cd1@terryk.foothill.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is the air from our lips at 300MPH when we whistle? The whistle has other causes. Hemholtz resonator, etc. (Coke bottle). Many people substantial claims with complete true assertions. Of course the two don't go together. Why do we have five fingers? Because Jello is flat. Both true. Maybe some fluid dynamics or the such genius out there can help you. TK -----Original Message----- From: Robert Humphris To: 'Fuel Injection List' Date: Friday, June 05, 1998 2:05 AM Subject: Airspeed question >Fellow EFi'ers > >As the techincal advisor of the Renault 5 GT Turbo owners club, I have >often heard some strange tales, many of which turn out to be utter >rubish. But last night I heard something that I cannot decide upon, and >I would like to ask the amassed knowledge in this list their opinion. > >Now we all know that flow is important in NA engines, with Turbo engines >airspeed is just as important if not more so. So with this in mind one >of the members was asking a porting shop about their mods to carb and >manifold. They said that they were 70% up on standard flow... which >they claim to be able to prove, so we will leave it at that... The bit >that I am not sure about is on the subject of airflow, when questioned >they said that "When you put the carb and manifold on the flowbench it >whistles. Air only starts to whistle at 300mph, so we know that the >airspeed is greater than 300mph..." > >Now this seems to be quite a claim... And I have never heard such a >thing before. Is this true? or not true, if so why? > >Obviously I have a mission to trash any bogus claims from tuning >companies as the members of the club shouldn't be tricked into parting >with their cash, so you advice will be received greatfully. > >Cheers > >Rob Humphris > From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 10:30:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11792 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:30:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ewd-web.ellisonwindow.com (pc2.ellisonwindow.com [209.193.145.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11786 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:30:07 -0400 Received: from hyperreal.org ([209.193.145.8]) by ewd-web.ellisonwindow.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 103-49079U100L100S0) with ESMTP id AAA75 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:29:09 -0400 Message-ID: <35780029.C33344E5@hyperreal.org> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 10:26:49 -0400 From: Francois Dion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Airspeed question References: <000c01bd907d$ccf32340$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gary Derian wrote: > I have never heard that air whistles only at over 300 mph. Even if this > were true, the ports could have some local eddies that cause whistling even > though the velocity in the middle of the port is much less. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the exhaust velocity of a kettle is far lower,yet quite a few models do whistle... :) On a more serious note, it is far more important to have imperfection smoothed out on a turbo or supercharger. On the Lancia Beta Montecarlo Turbo race car (1983), one engine had a strange power loss at a certain rpm and they realised on tear down that the intake had a blister in a port that caused cavitation and lowered the speed of intake or something like that. Ciao, Francois Dion (francois@hyperreal.org) -- Member: FLU #1722, PCNA http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/zagato/101/launch.html Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Peugeot, Volvo From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 10:42:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12032 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:42:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from MAIL2 ([193.220.96.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12028 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:42:56 -0400 Received: from post.bip.net - 193.220.96.11 by mail.bip.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:42:34 +0200 Received: apparently from Rolle.telia.com - 193.220.101.87 by post.bip.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:42:40 +0200 From: "Roland Johansson" To: Subject: SV: Airspeed question Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:40:05 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <0316a4042140568MAIL4@post.bip.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Having a Scirocco GTI converted to turbo I've managed to get whistle sounds in my tubing when boost passes 0 boost and between 3000 - 4000 rpms. This started as I changed my old plumbing in iron and rearranged the plumbing and made new in aluminium. And personally I think flow is less important on a turbo motor since you have breathing help. But if you building a race motor ok. Roland Johansson Scirocco 1,6l TIC -82 Http://hem.passagen.se/toker ---------- > Från: Gary Derian > Till: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Ämne: Re: Airspeed question > Datum: den 5 juni 1998 14:30 > > I have never heard that air whistles only at over 300 mph. Even if this > were true, the ports could have some local eddies that cause whistling even > though the velocity in the middle of the port is much less. > Gary Derian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Humphris > > >Fellow EFi'ers > > > >As the techincal advisor of the Renault 5 GT Turbo owners club, I have > >often heard some strange tales, many of which turn out to be utter > >rubish. But last night I heard something that I cannot decide upon, and > >I would like to ask the amassed knowledge in this list their opinion. > > > >Now we all know that flow is important in NA engines, with Turbo engines > >airspeed is just as important if not more so. So with this in mind one > >of the members was asking a porting shop about their mods to carb and > >manifold. They said that they were 70% up on standard flow... which > >they claim to be able to prove, so we will leave it at that... The bit > >that I am not sure about is on the subject of airflow, when questioned > >they said that "When you put the carb and manifold on the flowbench it > >whistles. Air only starts to whistle at 300mph, so we know that the > >airspeed is greater than 300mph..." > > > >Now this seems to be quite a claim... And I have never heard such a > >thing before. Is this true? or not true, if so why? > > > >Obviously I have a mission to trash any bogus claims from tuning > >companies as the members of the club shouldn't be tricked into parting > >with their cash, so you advice will be received greatfully. > > > >Cheers > > > >Rob Humphris From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 12:12:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13277 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:12:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13272 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:12:12 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-121-196.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.121.196]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id JAA03295 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 09:12:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <357818D1.1B69@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:12:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Airspeed question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Robert Humphris wrote: > > Renault 5 GT Turbo owner was asking a porting shop about their mods to > carb and > manifold. They said that they were 70% up on standard flow... which > they claim to be able to prove, so we will leave it at that... The bit > that I am not sure about is on the subject of airflow, when questioned > they said that "When you put the carb and manifold on the flowbench it > whistles. Air only starts to whistle at 300mph, so we know that the > airspeed is greater than 300mph..." Air velocity is readily measurable with a pitot tube probe (>$100 US) and a manometer, or other pressure transducer, which your shop's bench certainly has. No need to whistle. Reasonable velocity must be maintained through the intake tract, not just the choke points, such as carb venturi. 70% increase in any manifold is very impressive. Not familiar with this model so no opinion. Most meaningful test would be to bolt the whole intake tract including the cylinder head to the bench - measure before and after modification airflow through the lift range the cam used produces. Then integrate the lift/airflow curves and compare the difference. This figure will correspond reasonably to net grunt delta, if any, produced by mods. This applies to intake side. Exhaust considerations mo' different. None of the above is Scripture - Well, maybe the parts I stole from Vizard. Interested in other points of view. Jack From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 12:43:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13582 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:43:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13577 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:43:05 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p40.scotland.net [148.176.232.40]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10723 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:42:55 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35781F04.8F4AA6F6@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 17:38:28 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Airspeed question References: <000c01bd907d$ccf32340$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Your think of lamina flow no at that kind of velocity the flow would be likely to be fully developed turbulent flow with very thin turbulent boundar layer. The velocity profile would be more or less consant as the boundary layers might only be fractions of mm thick Turbulent flow boundary lairs are thin because so much mixing is going on due to eddies that the boundary layer is continually re-energised by robbing energy from the main flow causing "blockage", eventually no matter how much pressure you apply the venturi won't flow any more air. It is likely that some of airflow through the venturi and around the butter fly is going supersonic as at that kind of velocity at the pressure you would find in the contraction of the venturi you willl start to run into compressibillity. (aka the sound barrier) I once worked on a casscade wind tunnel for testing turbine blades that was next to a tiny supersonnic wind tunnel (ex WW2 German and still in use in 1991!) and when they ran that that screamed like a banshee. Gary Derian wrote: > I have never heard that air whistles only at over 300 mph. Even if this > were true, the ports could have some local eddies that cause whistling even > though the velocity in the middle of the port is much less. > Gary Derian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Humphris > > >Fellow EFi'ers > > > >As the techincal advisor of the Renault 5 GT Turbo owners club, I have > >often heard some strange tales, many of which turn out to be utter > >rubish. But last night I heard something that I cannot decide upon, and > >I would like to ask the amassed knowledge in this list their opinion. > > > >Now we all know that flow is important in NA engines, with Turbo engines > >airspeed is just as important if not more so. So with this in mind one > >of the members was asking a porting shop about their mods to carb and > >manifold. They said that they were 70% up on standard flow... which > >they claim to be able to prove, so we will leave it at that... The bit > >that I am not sure about is on the subject of airflow, when questioned > >they said that "When you put the carb and manifold on the flowbench it > >whistles. Air only starts to whistle at 300mph, so we know that the > >airspeed is greater than 300mph..." > > > >Now this seems to be quite a claim... And I have never heard such a > >thing before. Is this true? or not true, if so why? > > > >Obviously I have a mission to trash any bogus claims from tuning > >companies as the members of the club shouldn't be tricked into parting > >with their cash, so you advice will be received greatfully. > > > >Cheers > > > >Rob Humphris From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 12:43:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA13595 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:43:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [209.113.60.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13591 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:43:25 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-38.brokersys.com [209.113.60.39]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA32425 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 11:46:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3578209E.FDE67C18@brokersys.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 11:45:18 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition Problem References: <0EU200JPZ022X9@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Simon Quested wrote: > .... >So I connected works fluke scopemeter up to the -ve of the coil and >this is what I saw..... http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/netpics/coilpuls.jpg I don't think there's anything wrong with the fuel ecm. The shorts to ground on some of the 'shorties' is probably just making the ecm count 'extra' ignition pulses and mess up the injector timing (on the ecms I work on the injector timing is derived from the ground pulses on the coil - ). Adding to the other suggestions, have you tried isolating the coil case from ground? It's curious that the shorts to ground are right after a tall trace. Now you have .06 worth! Walt From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 13:32:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14219 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14215 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:27 -0400 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Wed, 27 May 1998 17:56:08 +1000 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Wed, 27 May 1998 17:56:07 +1000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 27 May 1998 16:56:12 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD8990.5A67F420.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy efi'" Subject: New NEC micro Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:56:10 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 11 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just got this from our head office, anyone interested ? Please note a Microcontroller developed in conjunction with a Automotive manufacture in Europe ( German and desirable! ) is now avaliable for general release to all customers. The part is UPD780973. basically you have 256 bytes of E2, 32K Flash ( 24K mask ) , 5 channel 8 bit A/D , 20 x 4 LCD controller / driver and 4 meter controllers ( stepper motors ) . I have the user manual in PDF format, 1.1M. Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 13:32:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14237 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14233 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:42 -0400 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Fri, 29 May 1998 11:46:00 +1000 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Fri, 29 May 1998 11:45:59 +1000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:45:57 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD8AEE.F68C95E0.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Chevy flywheels - concluded Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:45:56 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 34 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thought of that, luckily I now have a company car, so this one is only really driven on race days and weekend nights. I had to upgrade the clutch linkages when I started anyway. It was originally linkages, but these hit the extractors, so I went to cable, but wasn't happy. So now its hydraulic, much better. I think the clutch guys aim was to make me a solid clutch plate (no springs) and the 3900lb pressure plate, which was why he asked if a bit of shaking on take off would be OK. Anyway, going to drop all the bits of today, so I can get it back by next Friday for a weekend fitting. It'll be interesting. Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au On Thursday, 28 May, 1998 9:20 PM, kenkelly@lucent.com [SMTP:kenkelly@lucent.com] wrote: > Dan, > Be careful with going overboard on the clutch. If you are > going to use it as daily driver, you might find a race > clutch hard to live with. Years back I replaced the 6 > standard springs in my mopar clutch with 9 of the mopar high > performance springs. In addition to the fact that my left > leg became much beefier than the right leg, I broke every > component in the clutch linkage over the first year. I got > so good at shifting without a clutch that on one failure, I > drove it 400 miles without a clutch pedal, so I could work > on the linkage in my garage instead of on the street. > > In the second year I sheared the bolts off the ring gear. > Boy, did that make some noise. I wasn't really abusing it at > the time, but I guess they had fatiqued from the additional > shock due to the stiff clutch. > > Ken > From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 13:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14225 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14221 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:33 -0400 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Fri, 29 May 1998 11:49:19 +1000 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Fri, 29 May 1998 11:49:18 +1000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:49:17 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD8AEF.6D8520E0.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: New NEC micro Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:49:16 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 18 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No, NEC haven't posted it on the web yet. We can try and place it in the diy incoming directory, but someone will have to tell me how. Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au On Thursday, 28 May, 1998 9:45 PM, James Paul [SMTP:jpfa@micro.ti.com] wrote: > Dan, > > Is the manual available on the web? I am be interested in this part. I > cannot currently accept attachments to email due to my mail handler. I am > hoping this will change soon. Until then, I have to get by with what I have. > > Let me know the scoop. > > Thanks and Regards, > > Jim From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 13:32:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14231 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14227 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:37 -0400 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Fri, 29 May 1998 11:38:14 +1000 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Fri, 29 May 1998 11:38:13 +1000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 29 May 1998 10:38:12 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD8AED.E0FE8220.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: New NEC micro Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:38:11 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 14 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No idea, as I've been told its on a per customer basis. Couldn't imagine it being over US$20 in small qty though, considering the best of the original 78K0 series is only around US$15, and this new one is used in automotive industry qty's. Best bet is to contact the nearest NEC agent. Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au On Thursday, 28 May, 1998 4:20 PM, James Weiler [SMTP:james@brc.ubc.ca] wrote: > How much? Sorry for the obvious question. > thanks > jw > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 13:32:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14243 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14239 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:46 -0400 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:05:30 +1000 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:05:30 +1000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:05:33 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD8E2F.81EF6980.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Coils for ION ...use regular coils? Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:05:31 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 21 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mabye we can track down Rob with a bit of combined effort. He originally worked for AEMS while doing his PHd (wrote the software for the Wolf efi systems, he also still has his web page up and running but it has not been updated for years). After that he got married and got a job at Tickford. Lost contact with him after he finished his PHd, didn't have an email address. If anyone has a mate at Tickford get them to check if he's still there, hell if the police can find missing persons, we should be able to as well. Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au On Saturday, 30 May, 1998 12:48 PM, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com [SMTP:garfield@pilgrimhouse.com] wrote: > > P.S. I went over to the diy_web page to see just how easy it was to > access the archives (pieceOcake, BTW), and discovered to my amazement > that there have actually been a couple threads on ionization > measurement, and one person back in '95 who seems to have been about to > have working hardware, I believe a Robert Dingli in Oz? Anyone remember > him? Guess what, he had decided to use a wasteFire coil, with one of the > secondary outputs grounded! Hee. Deja Vu all over again! From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 13:32:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14214 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14208 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:17 -0400 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Wed, 27 May 1998 18:19:01 +1000 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Wed, 27 May 1998 18:19:00 +1000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 27 May 1998 17:19:07 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD8993.8DE784C0.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy efi'" Subject: Chevy flywheels - concluded Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 17:19:05 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 13 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks to everyone who contributed their ideas and thoughts on my flywheel question. I talked to a clutch manufacturer who is not too far away (showed me a nice AU$1200 racing clutch plate they had just done for a Nissan 200SX). Anyway it'll cost me between AU$400-500 to have the flywheel machined, get a clutch plate built up as well as a 3900lb pressure plate that they also custom build themselves (apparently they have had problems with expensive aftermarket Chev pressure plates ?). He guarranteed me complete driveability and that my diff would break before the clutch would slip again (don't know whether thats good or bad). Anyway thanks again Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 13:32:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA14264 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA14245 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:32:51 -0400 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.6); Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:21:28 +1000 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.6); Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:21:27 +1000 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:21:31 +0800 Message-ID: <01BD8E31.BD3746A0.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy efi'" Subject: FW: Coils for ION ...use regular coils? Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:21:29 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 14 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu P.S. This is his web page http://www.mame.mu.oz.au/~dingli/ someone may want to read the SAE papers he's written On Saturday, 30 May, 1998 12:48 PM, garfield@pilgrimhouse.com [SMTP:garfield@pilgrimhouse.com] wrote: > > P.S. I went over to the diy_web page to see just how easy it was to > access the archives (pieceOcake, BTW), and discovered to my amazement > that there have actually been a couple threads on ionization > measurement, and one person back in '95 who seems to have been about to > have working hardware, I believe a Robert Dingli in Oz? Anyone remember > him? Guess what, he had decided to use a wasteFire coil, with one of the > secondary outputs grounded! Hee. Deja Vu all over again! From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 15:53:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA16147 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:53:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16143 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:52:58 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-123-30.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.123.30]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id MAA22425 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 12:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35784CBB.4777@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 12:53:31 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: SV: Airspeed question References: <0316a4042140568MAIL4@post.bip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Roland Johansson wrote: > And personally I think flow is less important on a turbo motor > since you have breathing help. > But if you building a race motor ok. Widely held notion that boost is a substitute for volumetric efficiency. Not exactly. Work done on the charge by boost increases charge temp - A given mass flow is a function of boost AND VE. The better the VE the more mass flow for a given charge temp increase, or a given amount of boost. Or the cooler the charge for unit boost. However you figure it you will make the most power with the fewest trips to the piston store by starting with the best practical VE. Jack From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 16:08:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16266 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:08:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imes.com ([209.184.4.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA16262 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:08:48 -0400 Received: from elvis by imes.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA25257; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:10:55 -0500 Message-ID: <35780709.2DEA@imes.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 14:56:09 +0000 From: steve ravet Organization: International Meta Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diyefi Subject: trouble code disable in '747 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Looking thru the archives, I saw these two posts concerning disabling of ECM trouble codes: Bruce wrote: 050D 050E 050F FD 39 F9 would be stock FC 39 F9 would be no vss diagnostics (code 24) FD 39 79 would be no knock (code 43) FD 19 F9 would be no egr (code 32) That makes it look like bit 0 of address 50d controls code 24, bit 7 of address 50f controls code 43, bit 5 of address 50e controls code 32. But another email from Bruce had the codes listed like this: address: 0x50d bit: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 code: 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 address: 0x50e bit: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 code: 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 address: 0x50f bit: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 code: 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 The two mismatch, and the second table doesn't even go up to code 43. So now I'm confused. Bruce, would you mind please summarizing this table again? Which bits control which codes? I'm trying to get this all straightened out because I'm putting all the programming 101 notes into an HTML document for the diyefi WWW page. So, when it's done, who do I send the page to? --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 16:37:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16618 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:37:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16609 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:37:41 -0400 Received: from 205.215.232.18 (surf18.cruzers.com [205.215.232.18]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA10234 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 13:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35786493.7EA7@cruzers.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:35:48 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: GM (160)23262 A to D chip Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Has anyone figured out all the registers/bits of the A to D chip used in most (all?) GM C3 ECMs? This 28 pin DIP is usually marked with the part number 23262. I have a question about one control bit. First, here's what I've figured out: \/\/\/ Offset 0 - read (only) : A2D conversion result register bit 15 : conversion complete (1) bits 14-8 : 0 bits 7-0 : conversion result (0 to 255) Offset 2 - write : A2D Control/Status register bits 15-9 : unused, written as 0 bit 8 : start conversion (1) bit 7 : unknown bits 6-4 : unused, written as 0 bits 3-0 : mux selector (0 to 15) Offset 2 - read : A2D Control/Status register bit 15 : analog channel 15 > ~1.4 volts bit 14 : analog channel 14 > ~1.4 volts bit 13 : analog channel 13 > ~1.4 volts bit 12 : analog channel 12 > ~1.4 volts bit 11 : analog channel 11 > ~1.4 volts bit 10 : analog channel 10 > ~1.4 volts bits 9-6 : mux selector (0 to 15) bits 5-0 : 0 Only analog channels 0, 2 to 5, and 10 to 15 are implemented/bounded out. Channel 1 appears to be internally connected to VCC. Channels 6 to 9 are not connected and float at random intermediate voltages. All writes need to be performed as a 16 bit write, single byte writes are ignored. An 8 bit read will transfer the upper byte (bits 15-8) of the selected register. A hardware reset clears the conversion complete flag, clears the conversion result to 0, and switches the mux to channel 0. A (word) write to the Control/Status register clears the conversion complete flag, even if the start conversion bit was not set. The conversion result byte retains a previous value until a new value is loaded (and the conversion complete flag is set.) The following code fragment demonstrates the earliest cycle in which the conversion complete flag will be set. LDD #$0100 STD $1002 MUL ; waste 10 E cycles MUL ; waste 10 E cycles NOP ; waste 2 E cycles LDD $1000 ; burn 3 E cycles, then read $1000 BPL HardwareError STAB ChannelZeroResult /\/\/\ What does bit 7 of control register writes do? I have been unable to observe any effects of this bit. Several ECMs always write a zero into this bit. Several other ECMs always write a one. This is done in the A2D subroutine by ORing the mux selector with a RAM variable. This variable is initialized to 0x80 and never changed. Bit 7 does not: Alter the conversion time. Cause any change in the conversion results. Cause anything to appear in the "0" read bits. This chip has two VCC and two GND connections. The GNDs are both wired together. The VCCs are both connected to the VCC supply, though with seperate circuit board traces (double sided board.) Perhaps bit 7 switches the full scale reference voltage between the two VCCs. Perhaps bit 7 turns on/off a high impedance pull-up on the analog inputs. This might simplify using channels 10 to 15 as digital inputs. However, the pull-up would have to be a very high impedance. (Most inputs to the A to D chip are from high impedance sources. See two paragraphs back.) The ECMs which clear bit 7 have at least one digital input via the A to D chip. ECMs which set bit 7 don't. However, the clearing ECMs also have serious code space limitations. The bit 7 ORing might be left over from prototype and or special calibrator hardware. This is consistent with the initialized but never changed RAM variable. Does anyone have any other ideas/information? unsigned long BinToBCD(unsigned long i) {unsigned long t; Ludis Langens return i ? (t = BinToBCD(i >> 1), (t << 1) + (i & 1) + ludis@cruzers.com (t + 858993459 >> 2 & 572662306) * 3) : 0;} From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 16:51:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16858 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:51:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imes.com ([209.184.4.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA16849 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:51:14 -0400 Received: from elvis by imes.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA25874; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:53:29 -0500 Message-ID: <35781103.5D9D@imes.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 15:38:43 +0000 From: steve ravet Organization: International Meta Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diyefi Subject: more 747 questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Expect lots of these as I go thru the 101 archives and discover how much I don't know. In this archive: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/archive/archive_num_98;lines=30216-30277 Bruce says the WOT A/F table is here: We covered the WOT spark adder, so now we must look for a WOT Air/Fuel Ratio. That would be at 0487-048E.. But in this archive: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/archive/archive_num_98;lines=14696-14775 It says that it's here: So if ya look at the end of the fuel area, ya see exactly that, again depending on what application, it reads hex 64 for a few entries, and then the last few are 00. So we wind up at 03C7-03D7 as being the fuel enrichment for WOT. Can someone clarify? thanks --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 18:08:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17807 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:08:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imes.com ([209.184.4.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA17802 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:08:41 -0400 Received: from elvis by imes.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA27281; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:10:57 -0500 Message-ID: <3578232D.121@imes.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 16:56:13 +0000 From: steve ravet Organization: International Meta Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diyefi , hotrod , steveb Subject: what's that smell? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Have you seen the Internet burnout page yet? I especially liked the U-haul Diesel truck burnout... http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~mwilgus/burn.html -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 18:15:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17859 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:15:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wanda.pond.com (wanda.vf.pond.com [198.69.82.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17854 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:15:45 -0400 Received: from me (pacific-16.vf.pond.com [198.69.82.127]) by wanda.pond.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA06928 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00dd01bd90e8$3ac45640$7f5245c6@me> From: "Mattz" To: Subject: Hello Everybody! with a question ! Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 17:53:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello everybody, I just want to say I am new here .. I am a novice as compared to many of you but I still have fun with efi. A Little info on me.. I mostly just repair and maintain older system, mostly the ones found on the old vw's.. The systems are not much different from the ones in use today (that still use the air flap for measuring) They dont have a lambda sensor, no antiknock sensor etc.. But are in essence very good and reliable systems. Easy to play with, hard sometimes to troubleshoot (many false air problems) I do have several questions that I have been trying to solve.. Here is a one.. Many of the old systems are breaking down or have died.. Many fuel pumps have bit the dust over the years and replacements are becoming far and few in between.. Is a fuel pump basically a fuel pump? The question is can one remove a pump from another type of car and place it in service in a different car, the question of flow and the pressure is what I imagine I am worried about... (e.g.- can you remove a Nissan pump for a 6 cylinder and place it on a 4 cylinder car) Im sure it is a basic question but I am a novice at this... I thank you immensely mattz@pond.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 18:26:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18036 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:26:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (root@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18032 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:26:53 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du336-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.82]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.0/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA02588 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:26:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199806052226.PAA02588@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 15:29:58 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: what's that smell? In-Reply-To: <3578232D.121@imes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It's sad to see the youth of today wasting so much enegy on burnouts, it's sadd to say that I had to check out each and every one! Sandy At 04:56 PM 6/5/98 +0000, you wrote: >Have you seen the Internet burnout page yet? I especially liked the >U-haul Diesel truck burnout... > >http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~mwilgus/burn.html > >-- >Steve Ravet >International Meta Systems >http://www.imes.com >steve@imes.com > From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 19:22:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA18748 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:22:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA18743 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:22:53 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp32.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.162]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA05891 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:22:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <357837B1.AC780A76@mwt.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:23:46 -0500 From: Steven Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: New NEC micro References: <01BD8AEF.6D8520E0.dzorde@soanar.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is this the same micro as the NEC K0 micro controller we use it at work as far as I am concerned this processor is not a great processor and found bugs in the chip. The tools are poor and the compiler is slooooow . just my opinion on the chip. Steve Dan Zorde wrote: > No, NEC haven't posted it on the web yet. We can try and place it in the diy > incoming directory, but someone will have to tell me how. > > Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au > > On Thursday, 28 May, 1998 9:45 PM, James Paul [SMTP:jpfa@micro.ti.com] wrote: > > Dan, > > > > Is the manual available on the web? I am be interested in this part. I > > cannot currently accept attachments to email due to my mail handler. I am > > hoping this will change soon. Until then, I have to get by with what I > have. > > > > Let me know the scoop. > > > > Thanks and Regards, > > > > Jim From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 20:05:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19148 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:05:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19144 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:05:25 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.67.221]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980606000454.EAWI22706@malinda> for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 00:04:54 +0000 Message-ID: <35788859.E2FE898A@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 20:07:53 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: GM Question X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BD8AEF.6D8520E0.dzorde@soanar.com.au> <357837B1.AC780A76@mwt.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am new to the list and from the looks of the archives that I have been reading I am really uneducated in the subject but that's why I am here, to learn... ok here goes, what I did was install a GM TBI off a 91 4.3 V6 onto my 88 Jeep Wrangler's 4.2... well everything is working good so far, my problem is that the timing curve in the prom is for the Chevy motor and it is greatly different from the needs of the Jeep motor.. What I would like to do is change the timing curve in the chip... my first question is, does the chip need to be burnt in a eprom burner or is it more like my modem's flash ROM or are those both the same thing. Second is there a good/relatively cheap or maybe shareware, software out there that can log the data from the computer while running and with an emulator make the needed changes, I know that if I know the values that I want for the timing curve I can have a professional "burn" a chip for me, but I will hopefully be doing this to more than a few vehicles so I would rather be able to do it myself. Am I getting over my head? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, TIA Jason Weir -- Jason Weir - 88 YJ - 258 / Howell TBI 145K and counting Fayetteville, North Carolina JTW Web pages at http://www.home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 20:34:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19471 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:34:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from silver.hkabc.net (silver.hkabc.net [202.73.252.65]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19467 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:34:50 -0400 Received: from wilman.khabc.net (ppp253158.hkabc.net [202.73.253.158]) by silver.hkabc.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA12084 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:34:00 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199806060034.IAA12084@silver.hkabc.net> From: "Wilman Lee" To: Subject: Re: weber efi Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:27:19 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ---------- > From: nluker > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: weber efi > Date: Friday, May 22, 1998 5:40 PM > > Thanks wilman and espen > My car is a auto so maybe thata why I cant pull more than a peak of > 10psi boost. On the turbo gauge this is the start of the yellow range. > > > "I believe that there is a fault in the > factory > mapping particularly at idle and low throttle angle'" > > Yes i agree I think the duty cycle of the injectors is to high when > cruising on a light throttle. The best we get on our car is 18 > m.p.g.(imperial gallons) 90% of the cars driving is on country roads at > a fairly constant 50 to 60 mph on a very light throttle. I have finally > got my hands on a volt meter with a duty cycle function so will do some > testing this weekend to see if this is true. > I have defeated the amal wastegate valve as a test once by disconnecting > the hose nearest the fire wall (hose W) and the car produced around 18 > pounds boost. It went quite well for 10 minutes and then blew the turbo > hoses off ! The boost gauge in the car was up at the 12 o'clock to 1 > o'clock position. This means the turbos are up to the job but without > being able to monitor the knock detect signal some how I am reluctant to > put a bleed valve on this hose as the ecu,s ability to reduce boost when > knocking occurds would be reduced. So if i could re write the max boost > value I would achieve a better solution. I think it is quite safe to run 1 bar of boost. I believe the knock sensor is used to retard the ignition timing when triggered, not to reduce boost. > yours > nick luker > From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 21:59:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20304 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:59:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20300 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:59:16 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-34.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.52]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id VAA20801 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:57:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: more 747 questions Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:00:39 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd90ee$e7928f80$34198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: more 747 questions >Expect lots of these as I go thru the 101 archives and discover how much >I don't know. > >Bruce says the WOT A/F table is here: > We covered the WOT spark adder, so now we must look for a >WOT Air/Fuel Ratio. That would be at 0487-048E.. > >It says that it's here: >So if ya look at the end of the >fuel area, ya see exactly that, again depending on what application, >it reads hex 64 for a few entries, and then the last few are 00. So >we wind up at 03C7-03D7 as being the fuel enrichment for WOT. >Can someone clarify? Your looking at two different tables, one is an enrichment (a fuel VE addition), and the other a final air fuel ratio. The 0487-048E would be expressed after the conversion as something like 12.5:1, the other as a percent. The percentage is added as PE is enabled. Is that better?.. Cheers Bruce If this still isn't clear to any one, let me know and I'll try to splain it betters. > >thanks > >--steve > >-- >Steve Ravet >International Meta Systems >http://www.imes.com >steve@imes.com > From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 22:11:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20496 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:11:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20492 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:11:50 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-34.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.52]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id WAA25520 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: trouble code disable in '747 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:12:52 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd90f0$9c54dd00$34198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: steve ravet Subject: trouble code disable in '747 >Looking thru the archives, I saw these two posts concerning disabling of >ECM trouble codes: >Bruce wrote: > 050D 050E 050F > FD 39 F9 would be stock > FC 39 F9 would be no vss diagnostics (code 24) > FD 39 79 would be no knock (code 43) > FD 19 F9 would be no egr (code 32) > >That makes it look like bit 0 of address 50d controls code 24, bit 7 of >address 50f controls code 43, bit 5 of address 50e controls code 32. This is true.... > *****The first one is to exactly explain how things are done. This other was to develope the strategy behind the maddness. Yes, it is confusing, but the whole malfunction flag area is exactly that. Stategy is IMHO how it is organized, and executed. It is my poor command of the english langage that is the confusing part to this interuptation of these conversions. If you line things up with the first listing here it lines up right. The lower part is to explain the strategy or the thought process to "see" the logic of it.******** >But another email from Bruce had the codes listed like this: > >address: 0x50d >bit: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 >code: 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 > >address: 0x50e >bit: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 >code: 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 > >address: 0x50f >bit: 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 >code: 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 > >The two mismatch, and the second table doesn't even go up to code 43. The above was an intro into how these flags are developed, and the binary to hex understanding of how they line up to malfunction codes. I was trying to take the less experienced binary folks up to speed, and was attempting to start at square one, and develope it from there. >So now I'm confused. Bruce, would you mind please summarizing this >table again? Which bits control which codes? > >I'm trying to get this all straightened out because I'm putting all the >programming 101 notes into an HTML document for the diyefi WWW page. >So, when it's done, who do I send the page to? I don't know how to do that, you'd need to get ahold of I quess Orin. >--steve >Steve Ravet >International Meta Systems >http://www.imes.com >steve@imes.com > >From CSH, HQ BPelican From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 22:19:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20623 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:19:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20618 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:19:45 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-34.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.52]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id WAA28663 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:17:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GM Question Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:21:08 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd90f1$c4263bc0$34198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Jason Weir Subject: GM Question >I am new to the list and from the looks of the archives that I have been >reading I am really uneducated in the subject but that's why I am here, >to learn... ok here goes, what I did was install a GM TBI off a 91 4.3 >V6 onto my 88 Jeep Wrangler's 4.2... well everything is working good so >far, my problem is that the timing curve in the prom is for the Chevy >motor and it is greatly different from the needs of the Jeep motor.. >What I would like to do is change the timing curve in the chip... my >first question is, does the chip need to be burnt in a eprom burner or >From what you've said so far you have a 1227747 ecm (look at the white paper tag on the ecm). If so you just happen to be in luck. Look in the archives about programming 101, and all ya need to know is there. Also, look up timing tables fuel maps tune up, and again it's all there. Cheers BPelican From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 22:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21078 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:41:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21072 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:41:04 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-34.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.52]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id WAA06777 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:39:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Ignition Problem Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:42:26 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd90f4$bdad19a0$34198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Re: Ignition Problem "Bruce Plecan" wrote: >>Bruce Mowing the yard today, while wearing my ConeShaped Hat >> I found a car..... >Hehehehehe. Was it still running!? Nope was just sitting there.. > >B) > BPelican From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 22:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21359 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:54:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21354 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 22:54:12 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id TAA51930; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:54:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:54:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition Problem In-Reply-To: <01bd90f4$bdad19a0$34198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >>Bruce Mowing the yard today, while wearing my ConeShaped Hat > >> I found a car..... > >Hehehehehe. Was it still running!? > > Nope was just sitting there.. > > Was the drivers door still open? From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 23:16:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21818 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:16:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21814 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:16:22 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-122-195.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.122.195]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA29344 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3578B501.7EC8@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 20:18:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition Problem References: <01bd90f4$bdad19a0$34198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu "Bruce Plecan" wrote: > Mowing the yard today, while wearing my ConeShaped Hat > I found a car.... Adjust the mow height up ... Jack From diy_efi-owner Fri Jun 5 23:29:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22027 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:29:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from santaclara01.pop.internex.net (santaclara01.pop.internex.net [205.158.3.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22022 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:29:04 -0400 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by santaclara01.pop.internex.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-34792U7500L7500S0) with SMTP id AAA149 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 20:29:02 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition Problem Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 20:30:08 -0700 Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <3581b783.10088359@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id XAA22023 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:54:11 -0700 (PDT), Jim Davies wrote: > > >On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> >>Bruce Mowing the yard today, while wearing my ConeShaped Hat >> >> I found a car..... >> >Hehehehehe. Was it still running!? >> >> Nope was just sitting there.. >> > >Was the drivers door still open? Was there anyone still in it? [Hehehe, you probably wish you'd never posted that B)] G From diy_efi-owner Sat Jun 6 00:31:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22810 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 00:31:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22806 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 00:31:54 -0400 Received: from 205.215.232.18 (surf18.cruzers.com [205.215.232.18]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA18300 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3578D47F.5805@cruzers.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 21:32:55 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: trouble code disable in '747 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu steve ravet wrote: > That makes it look like bit 0 of address 50d controls code 24, bit 7 of > address 50f controls code 43, bit 5 of address 50e controls code 32. > > But another email from Bruce had the codes listed like this: > > [numbers with digits up to 9] The ECMs with three bytes for trouble code don't use the digits 6, 7, 8, or 9 in their trouble codes. There is also no code 11. So the three bytes go like this: 12 13 14 15 21 22 23 24 25 31 32 33 34 35 41 42 43 44 45 51 52 53 54 55 Notice how everything fits just perfect! unsigned long BinToBCD(unsigned long i) {unsigned long t; Ludis Langens return i ? (t = BinToBCD(i >> 1), (t << 1) + (i & 1) + ludis@cruzers.com (t + 858993459 >> 2 & 572662306) * 3) : 0;} From diy_efi-owner Sat Jun 6 01:16:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23288 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:16:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23283 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:16:05 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id BWQ25065; Sat, 06 Jun 1998 01:16:01 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:12:58 -0400 Subject: Holley Pro-Jection O2 sensor number Message-ID: <19980606.011524.16390.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,5-6,10-13 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu My Jeep is running like crud... I am getting no reading on the O2 sensor. I'm going to look at it tomorrow morning (and hope it's the wiring and not the sensor). If it turns out to be the sensor, I'll have to go to the auto store and get one. Does anyone know the part number for the sensor. Does that sensor come standard on any regular automobile. I'm afraid that I'll get really blank looks if I go down to the loca Murry's store and ask for a Holley Pro-Jection Oxygen sensor. Thanks in advance, Ray Drouillard _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Sat Jun 6 01:49:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23662 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:49:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo30.mx.aol.com (imo30.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.74]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23658 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:49:50 -0400 From: JCsDOOR@aol.com Received: from JCsDOOR@aol.com by imo30.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7FTKa29509 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:49:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17bb5225.3578d857@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:49:10 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Hello Everybody! with a question ! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 40 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu you can use later van or 914 pumps. or for that mater any pump that will mantane 38 psi.. auto zone, parts amercia,, ect., have pumps that they are dumb enough to gar. for ever. gees i didnt think any one would want old type 3 stuff i just through away 50 or 60 ecus. From diy_efi-owner Sat Jun 6 01:52:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23693 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:52:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23689 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:52:31 -0400 From: JCsDOOR@aol.com Received: from JCsDOOR@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7OMCa17630 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:52:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7599da6.3578d913@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:52:18 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Hello Everybody! with a question ! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 40 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ps. you can use datson pump its bosch,and efi ,30 to40 psi jim crance just snowed spring time in the rockys From diy_efi-owner Sat Jun 6 02:01:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA23812 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:01:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA23807 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:01:08 -0400 Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA28124 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:00:59 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 23:00:59 -0700 (PDT) From: T Hergen To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GM (160)23262 A to D chip In-Reply-To: <35786493.7EA7@cruzers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ludis, This looks like a National ADC0829, TI TL532/TL533, and Motorola MC14442 (Mot number referenced in TI databook - I couldn't verify the number). Bit 7 is listed (National and TI) as a don't care (a real "x", not a constant 0 or 1). Pin 1 is agnd, pin 2 is gnd, pin 28 is Vref (channel 1 also, as you found), pin 27 is vcc. It is listed as a low power, 50mW device, in case you're still calculating your power budget;) Your reverse engineering job looks accurate. Let me know if you need more info. Tom On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Ludis Langens wrote: > Has anyone figured out all the registers/bits of the A to D chip used in > most (all?) GM C3 ECMs? This 28 pin DIP is usually marked with the part > number 23262. I have a question about one control bit. First, here's > what I've figured out: > > \/\/\/ > > Offset 0 - read (only) : A2D conversion result register > > bit 15 : conversion complete (1) > bits 14-8 : 0 > bits 7-0 : conversion result (0 to 255) > > Offset 2 - write : A2D Control/Status register > > bits 15-9 : unused, written as 0 > bit 8 : start conversion (1) > bit 7 : unknown > bits 6-4 : unused, written as 0 > bits 3-0 : mux selector (0 to 15) > > Offset 2 - read : A2D Control/Status register > > bit 15 : analog channel 15 > ~1.4 volts > bit 14 : analog channel 14 > ~1.4 volts > bit 13 : analog channel 13 > ~1.4 volts > bit 12 : analog channel 12 > ~1.4 volts > bit 11 : analog channel 11 > ~1.4 volts > bit 10 : analog channel 10 > ~1.4 volts > bits 9-6 : mux selector (0 to 15) > bits 5-0 : 0 > > > Only analog channels 0, 2 to 5, and 10 to 15 are implemented/bounded > out. Channel 1 appears to be internally connected to VCC. Channels 6 > to 9 are not connected and float at random intermediate voltages. > > All writes need to be performed as a 16 bit write, single byte writes > are ignored. An 8 bit read will transfer the upper byte (bits 15-8) of > the selected register. > > A hardware reset clears the conversion complete flag, clears the > conversion result to 0, and switches the mux to channel 0. > > A (word) write to the Control/Status register clears the conversion > complete flag, even if the start conversion bit was not set. The > conversion result byte retains a previous value until a new value is > loaded (and the conversion complete flag is set.) The following code > fragment demonstrates the earliest cycle in which the conversion > complete flag will be set. > > LDD #$0100 > STD $1002 > MUL ; waste 10 E cycles > MUL ; waste 10 E cycles > NOP ; waste 2 E cycles > LDD $1000 ; burn 3 E cycles, then read $1000 > BPL HardwareError > STAB ChannelZeroResult > > /\/\/\ > > What does bit 7 of control register writes do? I have been unable to > observe any effects of this bit. > > Several ECMs always write a zero into this bit. Several other ECMs > always write a one. This is done in the A2D subroutine by ORing the mux > selector with a RAM variable. This variable is initialized to 0x80 and > never changed. > > Bit 7 does not: Alter the conversion time. Cause any change in the > conversion results. Cause anything to appear in the "0" read bits. > > This chip has two VCC and two GND connections. The GNDs are both wired > together. The VCCs are both connected to the VCC supply, though with > seperate circuit board traces (double sided board.) Perhaps bit 7 > switches the full scale reference voltage between the two VCCs. > > Perhaps bit 7 turns on/off a high impedance pull-up on the analog > inputs. This might simplify using channels 10 to 15 as digital inputs. > However, the pull-up would have to be a very high impedance. (Most > inputs to the A to D chip are from high impedance sources. See two > paragraphs back.) > > The ECMs which clear bit 7 have at least one digital input via the A to > D chip. ECMs which set bit 7 don't. However, the clearing ECMs also > have serious code space limitations. > > The bit 7 ORing might be left over from prototype and or special > calibrator hardware. This is consistent with the initialized but never > changed RAM variable. > > Does anyone have any other ideas/information? > > unsigned long BinToBCD(unsigned long i) {unsigned long t; > Ludis Langens return i ? (t = BinToBCD(i >> 1), (t << 1) + (i & 1) + > ludis@cruzers.com (t + 858993459 >> 2 & 572662306) * 3) : 0;} > > From diy_efi-owner Sat Jun 6 06:42:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA25497 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 06:42:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ny05.mtek.chalmers.se (ny05.mtek.chalmers.se [129.16.60.205]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA25493 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 06:42:43 -0400 Received: from pi10.mtek.chalmers.se (arvkla@pi10.mtek.chalmers.se [129.16.61.20]) by ny05.mtek.chalmers.se (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA04554; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:44:45 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 12:42:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: Klas Arvidsson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Hello Everybody! with a question ! In-Reply-To: <00dd01bd90e8$3ac45640$7f5245c6@me> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id GAA25494 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Mattz wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I just want to say I am new here .. > I am a novice as compared to many of you but I still have fun with efi. > > A Little info on me.. > > I mostly just repair and maintain older system, mostly the ones found on the > old vw's.. The systems are not much different from the ones in use today > (that still use the air flap for measuring) They dont have a lambda sensor, > no antiknock sensor etc.. But are in essence very good and reliable systems. > Easy to play with, hard sometimes to troubleshoot (many false air problems) > > I do have several questions that I have been trying to solve.. > Here is a one.. > > Many of the old systems are breaking down or have died.. Many fuel pumps > have bit the dust over the years and replacements are becoming far and few > in between.. > > Is a fuel pump basically a fuel pump? The question is can one remove a pump > from another type of car and place it in service in a different car, the > question of flow and the pressure is what I imagine I am worried about... > (e.g.- can you remove a Nissan pump for a 6 cylinder and place it on a 4 > cylinder car) > > > Im sure it is a basic question but I am a novice at this... > > I thank you immensely > > mattz@pond.com > > > > > > I think you can take the fuelpump from almost any car with K-jetronic ie bosch pumps. It worked for me anyway... ------------------------------------------------------- Med allra vänligaste hälsningar. Klas Arvidsson arvkla@mtek.chalmers.se www.mtek.chalmers.se/~arvkla ------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Sat Jun 6 08:42:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26196 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:42:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wanda.pond.com (wanda.vf.pond.com [198.69.82.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26192 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:42:10 -0400 Received: from me (pacific-6.vf.pond.com [198.69.82.117]) by wanda.pond.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA08996 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:44:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007901bd9161$43d30500$755245c6@me> From: "Mattz" To: Subject: Re: Hello Everybody! with a question ! Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:37:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: JCsDOOR@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, June 05, 1998 11:43 PM Subject: Re: Hello Everybody! with a question ! >you can use later van or 914 pumps. or for that mater any pump that will >mantane 38 psi.. auto zone, parts amercia,, ect., have pumps that they are >dumb enough to gar. for ever. gees i didnt think any one would want old type 3 >stuff i just through away 50 or 60 ecus. > The type 1 (bug) and transporter