From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 06:10:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA13542 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 06:10:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA13532 for diy_efi; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 06:10:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 06:10:01 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Message-Id: <199808011010.GAA13532@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. 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WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 12:18:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15145 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:18:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15141 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:18:26 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-49.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.118]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id MAA09714 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:18:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Bench ecms Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:21:13 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdbd68$66dab6a0$76198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu OK this morning applied P/N Switch signal, and VSS, and things work fine with the 747ecm.. Flipped connectors for the 165, and installed the ASBX memcal. LEDs flickering about what I'd expect, but only get error message "No DATA". When I wired up the ALDL, I included the "M" serial data "jumper". The scanner I'm using is from 1986, so it "Should? Work? RIGHT?"........ The ASBX is the Holden 808 memcal that is 160 baud, same as the 747 right?. Or does it use the 8192 in a 1227165?. The "M" terminal is below the "A", right?.... Anybody have a clue why when I set all the malfunction flags to 0, the scanner can't see the engine rpm?. PS I also tried entering things as a 85 S-10 4 cyl TBI which was also a 1227165 application. What am I doing wrong??????....... Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 12:33:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15269 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:33:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15265 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:33:52 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-49.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.118]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id MAA14031 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:33:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Holden 808 ??s Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:36:57 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdbd6a$9974e5c0$76198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu When shorting the two pins together for getting any trouble codes with a Holden 808 (v-8), key on engine off, should you have a code 22?. Does anyone know for sure if the trouble codes are the same, between the 808+165 ?. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 12:44:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15463 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:44:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15458 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:44:30 -0400 Received: from MARK (ppp-209-77-89-186.scrm01.pacbell.net [209.77.89.186]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id JAA22876 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401bdbefe$39fd15a0$ba594dd1@MARK> From: "Mark Romans" To: Subject: Re: Bench ecms Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:46:12 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce: 808's don't do data, remember, no data for the 808, use a memcal from an 87-89 vette. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:29 AM Subject: Bench ecms >OK this morning applied P/N Switch signal, and VSS, and things work >fine with the 747ecm.. Flipped connectors for the 165, and installed >the ASBX memcal. LEDs flickering about what I'd expect, but only >get error message "No DATA". When I wired up the ALDL, I >included the "M" serial data "jumper". The scanner I'm using is >from 1986, so it "Should? Work? RIGHT?"........ The ASBX is the >Holden 808 memcal that is 160 baud, same as the 747 right?. >Or does it use the 8192 in a 1227165?. > >The "M" terminal is below the "A", right?.... > >Anybody have a clue why when I set all the malfunction flags to 0, >the scanner can't see the engine rpm?. > >PS I also tried entering things as a 85 S-10 4 cyl TBI which was also >a 1227165 application. > >What am I doing wrong??????....... > >Cheers >Bruce > From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 21:00:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA17992 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:00:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [207.201.33.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA17988 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:00:38 -0400 Received: from default (ttyD1d.redding.snowcrest.net [209.148.36.30]) by snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03155 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:00:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980731193119.007bcbd0@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:31:19 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Vance Rose Subject: 165 question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All In 165 ecm noticed that there were two set of temps settings for cooling fan. Pin C1 controls cooling fan. Wondered if there was a second output pin for fan control? Wanted to have two fans in pu that came on at different temps. Have some minor drivabilty problems in really hot weather - hope to have ecm do controlling of fans instead of wiring to have come with eng running. TIA Vance From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 21:03:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18053 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:03:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18047 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:03:31 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA09267 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:03:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808020103.UAA09267@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny7-04.ix.netcom.com(206.217.124.132) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009196; Sat Aug 1 20:03:22 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 07:25:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Motronic 1.0. Volumetric meter-air mass meter conversion Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: Luquette@aol.com > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:35:58 EDT > To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Motronic 1.0. Volumetric meter-air mass meter conversion > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anyone have experience/information on doing an air mass meter retro fit > on a Motronic 1.0 system? The car is a 1985 BMW 745 with the clunky flapper > plate style volumetric meter. I'm doing some upgrades and want to try to get > more accurate air flow readings. > Also, I spoke to Jim C about the ECU in this car some time ago. Is he still > on this Digest? I still have those Motronic papers from SAE. > THe M1.0 system in this car is different from the system in the regular BMWs > of the same time. The 745i was a factory turbo car (3.5L I-6 with K-27 turbo) > and had a couple extra chips on the board and for this fact, I was told it > would be close to impossible to decode. Any changes? > You might try some type of intercept system. I made one for L-jet system to modify airflow signal based on O2 sensor. I put 256K of EEPROM on it, but have not worked on it in a while to adapt to a user programable performance device. I also have collection of SAE papers, it would be nice to archive the numbers, titles and brief abstract of some of the more uefull classics. Alex From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 21:03:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18068 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:03:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18063 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:03:41 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA09273 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:03:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808020103.UAA09273@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny7-04.ix.netcom.com(206.217.124.132) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009196; Sat Aug 1 20:03:27 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 07:25:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35BF1DC9.16870502@lucent.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:04:09 -0400 > From: Ken Kelly > Organization: Lucent Technologies > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > TBK, > > I believe you are correct on the 4 interfaces that Rinda is > compatible with, but the Diacom cable would have to have a > -10 to -12 volt supply to be able to create an RS-232 > signal. The Maxim chips now make that easy, but I don't > think they were available when Rinda started the Diacom. Do > you really think the Rinda cable attempts to actively shift > levels? I thought the circuitry just shifted the pinouts > around for the various standards. > Ken > It is a well known undocumented hacker fact that rs232 chips will recieve the rs232 negative high level as anything under about positive 1 V and rs232 low over about 2.5 V, thus you do not need a negative supply. You would need a inverter to recognize the start and stop bits. Most people do not recommend useing over 10 feet, I have transmitted over 100ft for several days at 9600 baud in a automotive test envirnoment. Last year I was looking at some Dodge OBD2 data at 8192 baud using this method, also developed scan tool for OBD2 ISO9141 10400 baud using rs232 inverted logic. It is a good idea to buffer the parallel port inputs. You might search Jan Axelson for parallel port interfacing and current specs. alex From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 21:04:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18100 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:04:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18095 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:04:02 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA09271 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:03:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808020103.UAA09271@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny7-04.ix.netcom.com(206.217.124.132) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009196; Sat Aug 1 20:03:24 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 07:25:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Occilliscope Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35BE1377.43EC@worldnet.att.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:07:57 +0000 > From: Ron Tyler > Organization: T. Engineering > To: DIY_EFI > Subject: Occilliscope > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Hey All, > > Does anybody know where I could get a cheap (read simple) used scope > that'd work well for reading a GM cam angle sensor (0-5v) > I lent out my $ 100 dollaris Rad Shack scope probe to a co-hurt, to do this, but he returned it saying he needed 2 chan. to see the relation with RPM sensor. alex From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 22:27:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19193 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:27:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19189 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:27:12 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-24.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.42]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id WAA06525 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:27:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 165 question Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:30:16 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdbdbd$7bd57fe0$2a198fd1@nacelp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Vance Rose To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:23 PM Subject: 165 question >Hi All > > In 165 ecm noticed that there were two set of temps settings for cooling >fan. Pin C1 controls cooling fan. Wondered if there was a second output >pin for fan control? I show a D11 as Fan Press A/C. No where do I see a second reference to a 2nd cooling fan. Let, me know if that works,please Cheers Bruce Wanted to have two fans in pu that came on at >different temps. Have some minor drivabilty problems in really hot weather >- hope to have ecm do controlling of fans instead of wiring to have come >with eng running. > > >TIA Vance > From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 22:46:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19363 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:46:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19359 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:46:30 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-129-103.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.129.103]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA11772 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35C3D2FA.7884592F@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 22:46:18 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 165 question References: <01bdbdbd$7bd57fe0$2a198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu the second cooling fan, if so equipped is usually controlled by a second straight mechanical switch/temp sensor direct wired into the cyl head....turned on at ~230 degrees...GENE Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vance Rose > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:23 PM > Subject: 165 question > > >Hi All > > > > In 165 ecm noticed that there were two set of temps settings for cooling > >fan. Pin C1 controls cooling fan. Wondered if there was a second output > >pin for fan control? > > I show a D11 as Fan Press A/C. No where do I see a second > reference to a 2nd cooling fan. Let, me know if that works,please > Cheers > Bruce > > Wanted to have two fans in pu that came on at > >different temps. Have some minor drivabilty problems in really hot weather > >- hope to have ecm do controlling of fans instead of wiring to have come > >with eng running. > > > > > >TIA Vance > > -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 23:10:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19731 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:10:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19727 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:10:15 -0400 From: AJLegere@aol.com Received: from AJLegere@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7FFLa02268 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:09:20 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ae38cf5.35c3d862@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:09:20 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: flow bench using EFI parts? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom, I'm just picking up on this conversation but can offfer the following guidance. Virtually all industrial instrumentation will operate on 12 Vdc. Many just barely. For the most part if you use a 250 ohm resistor in series with the unit connected to 12Vdc the unit will perform the function of restricting the current between 4 and 20 mA. This will provide the range of 1- 5 Vdc drop across the resistor representing 0-100 % of the calibrated range of the instrument. Rather than buying a new instrument there are a number of companies that offer refurbished instruments for reasonable costs. A new one for a 30 "WC differential pressure transmitter costs around $1100. In terms of the flow; volumetric flow is a function of the square root of the pressure drop across any known restriction. Air temperature and static pressure can have dramatic effects on the readings. Formulas are readily available from a number of sources. Check for Miller, Shinsky or any Crane catalog. In past experimentation building a flow bench to port heads I used an orfice of a known bore versus pipe i.d. (beta) (try to keep this ratio around 70% as the pressure recovery after the orfice drops of quite quickly when you drop below 70%) and used the air temp, statiic pressure and pressure drop accross the orfice to calculate flow. It works well and is relatively simple to construct using a powerful shop vac, orfice, temp gauge, and two inclined manometers (one static pressure and one pressure drop accross the orfice. Food for thought, AJL From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 23:30:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20070 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:30:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20066 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:30:25 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA08306 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:29:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808020329.WAA08306@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny9-11.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.203) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008267; Sat Aug 1 22:29:26 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:50:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Diacom Cable Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19980729180126.27352.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:01:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: andy quaas > Subject: Re: Diacom Cable > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A written desription in ..../crack.html said you need the other half of the cable.(WARNING: Offensive language used) alex p. > I wired up that exact diagram and found it to not work. The laptop > detects the interface, but that's as far as i ever got with that > design. I am trying to communicate with my 7730 ecm. I fooled with > it a bit last night and gave up. > > > > ---Raymond Brantley wrote: > > > > Hey guys I found this while surfing around. Don't know if it will > answer any > > questions.... > > http://www.coil.com/~apollo/diacom/schem1.jpg > > > > > > Ray > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 23:30:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20065 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:30:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20061 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:30:19 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA08310 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 22:29:56 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808020329.WAA08310@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny9-11.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.203) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008267; Sat Aug 1 22:29:28 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:50:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: web page Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19980731065357.11238.qmail@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: "alex nicu" > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: web page > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:53:57 PDT > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > http://home.onestop.net/nalex Hello Romania. What type of micro do you use for fuel control? This first time I saw schematic of a O2 indicator, also being more microprocessor oriented it seems feasible to use a PIC 74 and drive 32 Led's. so the schematic will down load faster. I work, thou not often, on the Romanian Aro Truck that is trying to be certified here for sale. Alex P. From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 1 23:30:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20078 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:30:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ultra2.syspac.com (ultra2.syspac.com [204.96.14.39]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20074 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 23:30:39 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.syspac.com ([204.96.14.7]) by ultra2.syspac.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-37030U5000L500S0) with ESMTP id AAA27952 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:25:50 -0700 Received: from p57076.syspac.com (p57076.syspac.com [204.181.57.76]) by mailrelay.syspac.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA27949 for ; Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:25:48 -0700 (MST) From: bamcknig@postoffice.syspac.com Message-Id: <199808020325.UAA27949@mailrelay.syspac.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:00:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Occilliscope Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ron Check with local ham radio operators about their next swap meet or if you have ham repeaters in the area they often have a swap net. In the Phx area its every mon. pm and covers most of arizona and a lot of southern ca. Bob McKnight PhxAZ From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 00:57:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21032 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 00:57:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from apollo.ruralnet.net.au (apollo.ruralnet.net.au [203.13.168.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21028 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 00:56:44 -0400 Received: from trans-am (swanhill-ppp7.ruralnet.net.au [203.13.169.107] (may be forged)) by apollo.ruralnet.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02215 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:00:11 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980802145642.006c0c30@apollo.ruralnet.net.au> X-Sender: allankf@apollo.ruralnet.net.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 14:56:42 +1000 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Kristofer Allan Subject: Injectors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, Can someone help me to work out what injectors I have bought to suit my 350 TPI motor. They will fit but I got them secondhand and have been told that they came off a car that was sold here in Australia. Can anyone tell me what they are off and most importantly, what size they are? The number on the side reads, 280 150 775, There is a bosch symbol on the side. I found a site that lists a lot of bosch injectors but it didnt list the ones I have. Thanks in advance, Kris Allan. From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 02:12:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA21670 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 02:12:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [206.180.156.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA21665 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 02:12:20 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-03.brokersys.com [206.180.156.4]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25452; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 01:16:22 -0500 Message-ID: <35C40503.3685FCB7@brokersys.com> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 01:19:47 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors References: <3.0.3.32.19980802145642.006c0c30@apollo.ruralnet.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Kristofer Allan wrote: > > Hi all, > Can someone help me to work out what injectors I have bought to suit my > 350 TPI motor. They will fit but I got them secondhand and have been told > that they came off a car that was sold here in Australia. Can anyone tell > me what they are off and most importantly, what size they are? The number > on the side reads, 280 150 775, There is a bosch symbol on the side. I > found a site that lists a lot of bosch injectors but it didnt list the ones > I have. > Thanks in advance, Kris Allan. Kristofer, here's a couple of pages I found. They don't have your injectors listed but it might be worth a call. http://www.fuelinjection.com/portinj.htm http://www.tpis.com/pg5-8.html good luck, Walter From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 02:12:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA21671 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 02:12:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [206.180.156.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA21661 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 02:12:17 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-03.brokersys.com [206.180.156.4]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25452; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 01:16:22 -0500 Message-ID: <35C40503.3685FCB7@brokersys.com> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 01:19:47 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors References: <3.0.3.32.19980802145642.006c0c30@apollo.ruralnet.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Kristofer Allan wrote: > > Hi all, > Can someone help me to work out what injectors I have bought to suit my > 350 TPI motor. They will fit but I got them secondhand and have been told > that they came off a car that was sold here in Australia. Can anyone tell > me what they are off and most importantly, what size they are? The number > on the side reads, 280 150 775, There is a bosch symbol on the side. I > found a site that lists a lot of bosch injectors but it didnt list the ones > I have. > Thanks in advance, Kris Allan. Kristofer, here's a couple of pages I found. They don't have your injectors listed but it might be worth a call. http://www.fuelinjection.com/portinj.htm http://www.tpis.com/pg5-8.html good luck, Walter From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 10:10:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA23942 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:10:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f136.hotmail.com [207.82.251.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA23938 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 10:10:02 -0400 Received: (qmail 25931 invoked by uid 0); 2 Aug 1998 14:09:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19980802140931.25930.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 200.41.17.146 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 02 Aug 1998 07:09:31 PDT X-Originating-IP: [200.41.17.146] From: "Evaristo Gonzalez" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 07:09:31 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu unsuscribe diy-efi unsuscribe efi332 unsuscribe diy_efi ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 20:34:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26552 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:34:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [207.201.33.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26548 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:34:32 -0400 Received: from default (ppp250.snowcrest.net [207.201.19.138]) by snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA28363 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980802173353.00a1a270@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 17:33:53 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: 165 question In-Reply-To: <01bdbdbd$7bd57fe0$2a198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:30 PM 8/1/98 -0400, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vance Rose >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:23 PM >Subject: 165 question > > >>Hi All >> >> In 165 ecm noticed that there were two set of temps settings for cooling >>fan. Pin C1 controls cooling fan. Wondered if there was a second output >>pin for fan control? > >I show a D11 as Fan Press A/C. No where do I see a second >reference to a 2nd cooling fan. Let, me know if that works,please >Cheers >Bruce > >Wanted to have two fans in pu that came on at >>different temps. Have some minor drivabilty problems in really hot weather >>- hope to have ecm do controlling of fans instead of wiring to have come >>with eng running. >> >> >>TIA Vance >> > >Hi Bruce Thanks for reply - D11 is for pressure switch that senses high pressure in A/C. When pressure reaches 160 psi - coolant fan comes on no matter what temp. Will wire up fan to come on manually. Just hoping. Thanks Vance From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 21:14:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA26824 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:14:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.ctelcom.net (root@one.ctelcom.net [209.12.126.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26820 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:14:08 -0400 Received: from default (dial18.ctelcom.net [209.12.126.167]) by one.ctelcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA32276 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:14:05 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980802200806.00689eac@ctelcom.net> X-Sender: jboucher@ctelcom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 20:08:06 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Joe Boucher Subject: 700R4 rebuild manual? In-Reply-To: <5ae38cf5.35c3d862@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've been gone for awhile. Was the rebuild manual for the 700R4 ever posted to the FTP site? Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 21:59:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA27229 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:59:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27224 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:59:16 -0400 Received: from sprintmail.com (1Cust211.tnt14.dfw5.da.uu.net [153.36.240.211]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16202 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 18:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C51907.F3B65B42@sprintmail.com> Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 19:57:27 -0600 From: Brian Hartman Organization: Ethereal Light Metaphysical Books and Supplies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 700R4 rebuild manual? References: <3.0.1.32.19980802200806.00689eac@ctelcom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Not yet. I'm still working on a worthy manual. It's great right now but I don't want it to be judged as a final product. I'm still working on getting the different 700R4's up to top stocker specs then up to Race / Heavy Duty specs. I'm still trying to get time. Sorry I've been way busy but I need to be getting with it soon. Brian Hartman Joe Boucher wrote: > I've been gone for awhile. Was the rebuild manual for the 700R4 ever > posted to the FTP site? > > Joe Boucher > '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 22:05:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27291 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:05:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27286 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:05:15 -0400 From: AL8001@aol.com Received: from AL8001@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7WPMa20769 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:04:29 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:04:29 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Two cooling fans (was: 165 question) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message someone wrote: >>Wanted to have two fans in pu that came on at >>>different temps. Have some minor drivabilty problems in really hot weather >>>- hope to have ecm do controlling of fans instead of wiring to have come >>>with eng running. >>> It dosn't have to that complicated (searching for a ecm output and table ). Look in a auto parts catalog for a water temp switch used for a hot light. Many have a small screw covered by paint or sealer. Most of the older Ford sensors have a threaded stud with a flat on one side. Clean off the paint, then turn the screw two turns clockwise. Most engines have extra pluged holes in the intake or cylinder heads. Connect the switch to the relay for the second fan. Run the engine and adjust the screw to the temp you desire. Simple, easy and cheap. From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 23:03:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27847 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:03:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA27843 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:03:43 -0400 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id MAA03675 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:26:41 -1000 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:26:41 -1000 Message-Id: <199808032226.MAA03675@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@host.kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: replacing a Vale air flow meter with a MAP Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All I am interested in replacing a Bosch style Vane air flow meter (MAF) with a MAP sencor and a MAT sencor. This will allow me to remove the crappy standard air duct and box and install a better air filter and cold air intake. The car is using a BOSCH LE jettronic ECU so I will have to do a few tricks with the voltage to get it right. Has anyone done this. If so I would be interested to talk top them. Regards Stuart Bunning From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 2 23:09:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27950 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:09:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27945 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:09:11 -0400 From: ARoss10661@aol.com Received: from ARoss10661@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7PPIa22588 for ; Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:08:32 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <38a1ba6d.35c529b1@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:08:32 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 700R4 rebuild manual? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-08-02 22:09:17 EDT, you write: << Not yet. I'm still working on a worthy manual. It's great right now but I don't want it to be judged as a final product. I'm still working on getting the different 700R4's up to top stocker specs then up to Race / Heavy Duty specs. I'm still trying to get time. Sorry I've been way busy but I need to be getting with it soon. >> Please post when that manual is up I would love to see it Al From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 01:58:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA29039 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:58:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mw4.texas.net (mw4.texas.net [206.127.30.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA29034 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:58:29 -0400 Received: from Skinner.texas.net (mnet05-49.austin.texas.net [207.207.3.133]) by mw4.texas.net (2.4/2.4) with SMTP id AAA07802 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 00:58:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980804010557.007f1100@pop.texas.net> X-Sender: drews@pop.texas.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 01:05:57 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Drew Skinner Subject: Re: Diacom Cable In-Reply-To: <19980729180126.27352.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 11:01 AM 7/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >I wired up that exact diagram and found it to not work. The laptop >detects the interface, but that's as far as i ever got with that >design. I am trying to communicate with my 7730 ecm. I fooled with >it a bit last night and gave up. Hmmm, I wired up the schematic on Sean's website and I'm having the same problems. Mainly, it lists pinouts on the ALDL that aren't on my 165 ALDL. I just haven't had enough time to research the proper substitutes for my application. It almost works, diacom recognizes it and the SES light flashes quickly(open loop) but doesn't quite link up. I really hate to waste all that time I spent soldering. :-/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 03:36:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA29671 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:36:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.64.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA29667 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 03:36:32 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p60.scotland.net [148.176.232.60]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA01751 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:35:49 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35C56930.9E0E7DD8@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 08:39:28 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Two cooling fans (was: 165 question) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Some manufacturers use this system I know the UK Rover use it in the higher performance turbo and V6 models in the 800 range. If you want to take the electronic route you could do it several ways using a temperature sensor (such as a thermistor or LM335 sensor) connected to a simple voltage comparator (you would also need some kind of timer bassed on 555 chip) or a better one chip solution in the form of the Analog Devices TMP12FP chip which is designed for use in Pentium PC and actually measures airflow and temperature. Andy MacFadyen AL8001@aol.com wrote: > In a message someone wrote: > > >>Wanted to have two fans in pu that came on at > >>>different temps. Have some minor drivabilty problems in really hot weather > >>>- hope to have ecm do controlling of fans instead of wiring to have come > >>>with eng running. > >>> > > It dosn't have to that complicated (searching for a ecm output and table ). > Look in a auto parts catalog for a water temp switch used for a hot light. > Many have a small screw covered by paint or sealer. Most of the older Ford > sensors have a threaded stud with a flat on one side. > > Clean off the paint, then turn the screw two turns clockwise. Most engines > have extra pluged holes in the intake or cylinder heads. Connect the switch to > the relay for the second fan. Run the engine and adjust the screw to the temp > you desire. > > Simple, easy and cheap. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 04:31:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA30080 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 04:31:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oznet11.ozemail.com.au (oznet11.ozemail.com.au [203.2.192.118]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA30074 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 04:31:27 -0400 Received: from matt (slwol51p24.ozemail.com.au [203.108.231.40]) by oznet11.ozemail.com.au (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA07421 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:31:05 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <001101bdbeb8$8d4dfbc0$28e76ccb@matt> From: "Matt Tomlins" To: Subject: 808 Fault Codes Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:27:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce The fault code 22 you saw was TPS voltage too low. My manual says that this code is set if TPS voltage falls below 0.15V Here is a list of all 808 Fault codes. 12 System Functioning OK 13 Oxygen sensor Open Circuit 14 CTS low ( <0.7V) 15 CTS High (>4.65) 21 TPS High (>2.5V and MAP <60kPa fot 2 secs) 22 TPS Low (<0.15V) 23 MAT High (>4.9V) 24 VSS Error 25 MAT Low (<0.3V) 33 MAP High 34 MAP Low 41 No Refrence Pulse 42 EST Failure 43 Knock Sensor open or shorted 44 Oxygen sensor low (<0.25V, >20Sec) 45 Oxygen sensor high (>0.45V, >20Sec) 51 MEMCAL Error 55 A to D error (>5.5V) Hope that this helps Cheers Matt From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 05:09:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA30476 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 05:09:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net (mserv1b.u-net.net [195.102.240.137]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA30472 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 05:09:40 -0400 Received: from (p35.nas1.is3.u-net.net) [195.102.195.35] by mserv1b.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0z3Gb8-0006L6-00; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:08:06 +0100 Message-ID: <35C5EFDE.D87@messagebox.com> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 10:14:06 -0700 From: Daniel Guest X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Astra Gte Rev counter mods Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, Anyone know how to make an astra GTE digital dash rev counter read 6 cylinders? From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 06:04:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA30834 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:04:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA30830 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:04:06 -0400 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29337 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:06:03 +1000 Received: from gou-ppp-079.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.79), claiming to be "jalbury" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda29325; Mon Aug 3 20:05:59 1998 Message-ID: <35C58C9B.5B97@tpgi.com.au> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:10:35 +1000 From: Justin Albury Organization: VK2HJA X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Holden 808 ??s References: <01bdbd6a$9974e5c0$76198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > When shorting the two pins together for getting any trouble codes > with a Holden 808 (v-8), key on engine off, should you have a code > 22?. > Does anyone know for sure if the trouble codes are the same, > between the 808+165 ?. > > Cheers > Bruce with no errors only a code 12 should be present Juz! do you have diacom for the gmh vehicles??? From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 07:48:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA31404 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:48:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA31400 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:47:57 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-46.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.115]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id HAA15276 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002801bdbed4$f4aa7d40$73198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 808 Fault Codes Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:50:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Matt Tomlins To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 4:58 AM Subject: 808 Fault Codes Thanks Bruce > >Bruce >The fault code 22 you saw was TPS voltage too low. >My manual says that this code is set if TPS voltage falls below 0.15V > >Here is a list of all 808 Fault codes. > >12 System Functioning OK >13 Oxygen sensor Open Circuit >14 CTS low ( <0.7V) >15 CTS High (>4.65) >21 TPS High (>2.5V and MAP <60kPa fot 2 secs) >22 TPS Low (<0.15V) >23 MAT High (>4.9V) >24 VSS Error >25 MAT Low (<0.3V) >33 MAP High >34 MAP Low >41 No Refrence Pulse >42 EST Failure >43 Knock Sensor open or shorted >44 Oxygen sensor low (<0.25V, >20Sec) >45 Oxygen sensor high (>0.45V, >20Sec) >51 MEMCAL Error >55 A to D error (>5.5V) > >Hope that this helps >Cheers >Matt > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 08:12:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA31617 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:12:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA31613 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:12:17 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-46.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.115]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id IAA21226 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:12:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003501bdbed8$67d88b60$73198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:15:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Now, that we know there is pull down resistors, what do I do with the 5K pots that I've been using for TPS and MAP signal inputs?. I'm over my head here so I need a item by item explaination. ie., a lot more specific than saying, buffing the output with an op-amp. Thanks Bruce From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 08:53:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA32230 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:53:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA32226 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:53:02 -0400 Received: from gte.net (1Cust46.tnt3.dfw5.da.uu.net [153.36.194.46]) by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id HAA16866 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:52:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35C5B2ED.6229DE0F@gte.net> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 07:54:05 -0500 From: Terry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 808 Fault Codes References: <001101bdbeb8$8d4dfbc0$28e76ccb@matt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Matt Tomlins wrote: > Here is a list of all 808 Fault codes. > > 12 System Functioning OK > 13 Oxygen sensor Open Circuit > 14 CTS low ( <0.7V) > 15 CTS High (>4.65) > 21 TPS High (>2.5V and MAP <60kPa fot 2 secs) > 22 TPS Low (<0.15V) > 23 MAT High (>4.9V) > 24 VSS Error > 25 MAT Low (<0.3V) > 33 MAP High > 34 MAP Low > 41 No Refrence Pulse > 42 EST Failure > 43 Knock Sensor open or shorted > 44 Oxygen sensor low (<0.25V, >20Sec) > 45 Oxygen sensor high (>0.45V, >20Sec) > 51 MEMCAL Error > 55 A to D error (>5.5V) So does the 808 NOT have any EGR codes? Does Oz require some sort of emissions standards conformance? thanks, T. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 10:52:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00558 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:52:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00554 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:52:50 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-44.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.44]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id HAA22012 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C5CF09.6584@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 07:54:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP References: <003501bdbed8$67d88b60$73198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What signals and signal range do these inputs require? I don't know diddley about these ECUs but am interested. Probably can tell you how to fake em once I know what's required... Promise not to buff anything. Regards, Jack Bruce Plecan wrote: > Now, that we know there is pull down resistors, what do I do with > the 5K pots that I've been using for TPS and MAP signal inputs?. > I'm over my head here so I need a item by item explaination. > ie., a lot more specific than saying, buffing the output with an op-amp. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 13:40:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02023 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:40:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02018 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:40:43 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-5.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.74]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id NAA15815 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009201bdbf06$492df6e0$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:43:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: goflo@pacbell.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 11:31 AM Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP >What signals and signal range do these inputs require? I don't >know diddley about these ECUs but am interested. Probably can >tell you how to fake em once I know what's required... Promise >not to buff anything. The ecm supplies a 5v signal to the TPS, and MAP. The MAP is a strain guage type device with a couple transistors. What is inside a TPS, I don't know. The TPS needs to return a signal from .5v to 4.9v (.5 being idle). to the ecm. The map at engine off is like 4.9, idle 2.v ish.. Appreciate a hand Bruce > >Regards, Jack > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> Now, that we know there is pull down resistors, what do I do with >> the 5K pots that I've been using for TPS and MAP signal inputs?. >> I'm over my head here so I need a item by item explaination. >> ie., a lot more specific than saying, buffing the output with an op-amp. > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 13:49:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02102 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:49:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02098 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:49:33 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.110]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980803174934.NGBO6337@malinda> for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:49:34 +0000 Message-ID: <35C74BEE.68B2C271@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 13:59:11 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: Timing in ref to TDC X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I read a thread a while ago that talked about timing in reference to TDC when using the 747. As I recall the 5.7 V8 had a 6 degree advance at the distributor while the 4.3 was timed at 0 at the distributor. My question is, If I timed the motor at 0 degrees and then added the extra 6 degrees to every value in the timing table, what will be the difference. I understand that the ECM will still think that there is 6 degrees advance at the dist but where will I see this.. what will it affect. The reason I ask, is it would be simpler for me to have all the advance in one place, (the timing table) rather than some here and some there...Thanks again.... JW -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 14:18:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA02483 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:18:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02479 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:17:57 -0400 Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA05592 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:17:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:17:42 -0700 (PDT) From: T Hergen To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP In-Reply-To: <003501bdbed8$67d88b60$73198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I haven't tested the following on an ecm. It's based on input from other list members. Comments, corrections, etc. invited. Another member (Peter) has indicated the a number of gm ecms switch in different pullups on the temperature sensor(s). The advantage of this is to give the ecm better temperature measuring resolution over a particular temperature range. Compare this to switching to the 2 volt scale on your digital multimeter when trying to measure the O2 sensor voltage (wouldn't make sense use the 200 volt scale). The stock temperature sensor is a two wire device where one end is connected to ground and the other to the ecm temperature input. (Use fixed width font to view) Stock temp sensor: ----- to ecm CTS or MAT input | / \ / resistance varies with temperature \ / \ | | gnd-- How to hook up a temperature sensor 'simulator' nc-- (nc = not connected) | / \ /<---- to ecm CTS or MAT input ?k \ / \ | | gnd-- The ecm will switch in a different pullup when it determines that the temperature has entered a certain range. This 'switch point' will correspond to a particular resistance of the temperature sensor (there's probably some hysteresis built into the switching algorithum). After the switch happens, the voltage across the sensor (or pot) changes. Even though the voltage has changed, the resistance hasn't and this still corresponds to the same temperature as before the switch. The value of the resistance range of the pot should be large enough to cover the resistance range of the sensor it is replacing. I don't have a table for the CTS or MAT sensor available at the moment, anyone want to help with this? The problem with wiring CTS/MAT like a TPS is that the voltage before and after the switch will not change the same way as it would if only two terminals of the pot were used. +5--- | DON'T USE THIS! / \ /<---- to ecm CTS or MAT input 5k \ / \ | | gnd-- The Thevenin equivalent of the TPS style hookup is a single resistor connected to some voltage between +5 and ground which won't give the same results as a resistor to ground. Math left to the user:) Tom On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > Now, that we know there is pull down resistors, what do I do with > the 5K pots that I've been using for TPS and MAP signal inputs?. > I'm over my head here so I need a item by item explaination. > ie., a lot more specific than saying, buffing the output with an op-amp. > Thanks > Bruce > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 14:36:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA02808 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:36:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02803 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:36:47 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-5.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.74]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id OAA07117 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:36:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012701bdbf0e$1ed89640$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Timing in ref to TDC Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:39:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Jason Weir To: DIY_EFI Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:30 PM Subject: Timing in ref to TDC >I read a thread a while ago that talked about timing in reference to TDC >when using the 747. As I recall the 5.7 V8 had a 6 degree advance at >the distributor while the 4.3 was timed at 0 at the distributor. snip The reason I ask, is it would be simpler for me to have all the >advance in one place, (the timing table) rather than some here and some >there... What about cranking?, what about limp home mode?. what about we don't even know of yet? Try small steps, then larger, don't try to reinvent the wheel first outting. Cheers Bruce Thanks again.... JW > >-- >Jason Weir >88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI >Fayetteville, North Carolina >http://home.att.net/~jweir >mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 14:39:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA02868 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:39:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [206.180.156.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02861 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:39:03 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-25.brokersys.com [206.180.156.26]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06080 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:43:18 -0500 Message-ID: <35C60588.5945D2AD@brokersys.com> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 13:46:32 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP References: <009201bdbf06$492df6e0$4a198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce, what was wrong with using the pots? Ignore if this has been covered, just taking a few minutes away from work (waiting for glue to dry...). Walter Bruce Plecan wrote: > The ecm supplies a 5v signal to the TPS, and MAP. The MAP is > a strain guage type device with a couple transistors. What is inside > a TPS, I don't know. The TPS needs to return a signal from .5v to > 4.9v (.5 being idle). to the ecm. The map at engine off is like > 4.9, idle 2.v ish.. > Appreciate a hand > Bruce > > > >Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> Now, that we know there is pull down resistors, what do I do with > >> the 5K pots that I've been using for TPS and MAP signal inputs?. > >> I'm over my head here so I need a item by item explaination. > >> ie., a lot more specific than saying, buffing the output with an op-amp. > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 15:20:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03560 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:20:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03555 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:20:24 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-133.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.133]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id MAA27986 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C60DE9.7003@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 12:22:17 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP References: <009201bdbf06$492df6e0$4a198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is the most likely, and will give 0 to nearly 5V adj 5V ______ | / 5K pot, linear taper \ /<------ Variable voltage to ECU input \ / | | | Ground /* less likely */ 5V pull-down _____ voltage from | ECU | / 5K linear taper pot \ /<---------/\/\/\-------- Ground \ 1K / | | No connection This will give approx 1V to 5V adj. If you need less than 1V ( say .9V ) use a smaller current limiting resistor, but at least 500 ohms or so. This resistor prevents shorting the 5V input to ground at the high end of the pots travel ... If the ECU uses this scheme the current is probably internally limited but we dont need to find out the hard way that it is'nt. It is Monday, after all. If this doesnt make sense describe the connections as fully as possible and we'll beat on it some more. Regards, Jack Bruce Plecan wrote: > The ecm supplies a 5v signal to the TPS, and MAP. The MAP is > a strain guage type device with a couple transistors. What is inside > a TPS, I don't know. The TPS needs to return a signal from .5v to > 4.9v (.5 being idle). to the ecm. The map at engine off is like > 4.9, idle 2.v ish.. > Appreciate a hand > >What signals and signal range do these inputs require? I don't > >know diddley about these ECUs but am interested. Probably can > >tell you how to fake em once I know what's required... Promise > >not to buff anything. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 15:43:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA03927 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:43:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kla-tencor.com (mail01.kla-tencor.com [206.67.220.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03922 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:43:42 -0400 Received: from milxbh03.kla-tencor.com by kla-tencor.com (8.8.5/KLA-Tencor.3.6irm) id MAA26585; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by MILXBH03 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.0) id ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:36:33 -0700 Message-ID: <933713F1FB7BD111AC2300A0C98F1AD10102BDEF@MILXPR06> From: "Buchholz, Steven" To: "'DIY-EFI'" Subject: Audi Motronic Info Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:47:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.0) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I recently purchased a 1991 Audi Quattro with a 32 valve 3.6 liter V8. This car has a Motronic control box ... I was wondering if there was anyone on the list that might have information about the system; how it works, what the timing maps control and where they're located, info about differences between the US and European versions of the engine, etc ... TIA! Steve Buchholz San Jose, CA (USA) From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 15:58:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA04159 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:58:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA04154 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:58:37 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-4.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.22]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id PAA08684 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:58:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004e01bdbf19$865ef6a0$16198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:01:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Walter Petermann To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP >Bruce, >what was wrong with using the pots? >Ignore if this has been covered, just taking a few >minutes away from work (waiting for glue to dry...). My concern is ruining the ecms. Just I got a real budget, and this could get expensive. For the several minutes so far noting seems wrong, but I plan I spending many long hours at this. Cheers Bruce > >Walter > >Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> The ecm supplies a 5v signal to the TPS, and MAP. The MAP is >> a strain guage type device with a couple transistors. What is inside >> a TPS, I don't know. The TPS needs to return a signal from .5v to >> 4.9v (.5 being idle). to the ecm. The map at engine off is like >> 4.9, idle 2.v ish.. >> Appreciate a hand >> Bruce > >> > >> >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> Now, that we know there is pull down resistors, what do I do with >> >> the 5K pots that I've been using for TPS and MAP signal inputs?. >> >> I'm over my head here so I need a item by item explaination. >> >> ie., a lot more specific than saying, buffing the output with an op-amp. >> > >> > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 16:11:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04425 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:11:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04418 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:11:27 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-4.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.22]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id QAA14201 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006801bdbf1b$56fd3960$16198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:14:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: goflo@pacbell.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP >This is the most likely, and will give 0 to nearly 5V adj > > 5V ______ > | > / 5K pot, linear taper > \ > /<------ Variable voltage to ECU input > \ > / > | | > | > Ground This is what I have.. > > /* less likely */ > >5V pull-down _____ >voltage from | >ECU | > / 5K linear taper pot > \ > /<---------/\/\/\-------- Ground > \ 1K > / > | > | > No connection Where is the ecm connected?. Or in this version just thru the 5K. The Coolant temp sensor, and Intake Air Temp have two terminal connectors, and the TPS, MAP have three terminal. I verified that there is 5v to them, a ground, and the sensor signal to ecm (unk) Cheers Bruce > >This will give approx 1V to 5V adj. If you need less than 1V >( say .9V ) use a smaller current limiting resistor, but at >least 500 ohms or so. This resistor prevents shorting the 5V >input to ground at the high end of the pots travel ... If the >ECU uses this scheme the current is probably internally limited >but we dont need to find out the hard way that it is'nt. It is >Monday, after all. > >If this doesnt make sense describe the connections as fully as >possible and we'll beat on it some more. > >Regards, Jack > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 16:44:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05056 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:44:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA05052 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:44:26 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.2]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980803204421.QEER6337@malinda> for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:44:21 +0000 Message-ID: <35C774E7.9510DA0C@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 16:53:59 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Timing in ref to TDC X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <012701bdbf0e$1ed89640$4a198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > What about cranking?, what about limp home mode?. what about > we don't even know of yet? > Try small steps, then larger, don't try to reinvent the wheel first Thats what I wanted to know, thanks JW -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 16:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA05279 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:57:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA05271 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:57:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA08761 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:57:16 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 13:57:16 -0700 (PDT) From: T Hergen To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Here's some possible values... Peter indicated the that some gm ecms switch in a 348 Ohm or 4 KOhm pullup (see his 7/31/98 post). Looking at the temp vs resistance tables for a CTS and IAT, there is quite a range to cover. Over 100K for very low temps and about 177 Ohm around 100C. The 348 Ohm resistor would likely be switched in at the higher temps. Given this range, a 100 KOhm log taper potentiometer would work. Use only two terminals, the wiper and the one that shows 100 KOhm at one end and much less than 50 KOhm when the shaft is in the center position. With a 100 KOhm pot it will be difficult to adjust the high temperature end of the scale with any precision. For this reason, it would be nice to be able to switch in a 5 KOhm to 1 KOhm pot (again using only two terminals) to cover this range. This "user" switching of pots is independent of when the ecm decides to switch in a different pullup. Adding a 100 Ohm resistor in series with the wire to the ecm temperature input would reduce the peak current that could be drawn and reduce the chance of damaging the ecm. Does anyone know if the 730 or 165 ecms are ones that really do switch the pullups? Thanks, Tom On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, T Hergen wrote: > I haven't tested the following on an ecm. It's based on > input from other list members. Comments, corrections, > etc. invited. > > Another member (Peter) has indicated the a number of gm ecms > switch in different pullups on the temperature sensor(s). > The advantage of this is to give the ecm better temperature > measuring resolution over a particular temperature range. > Compare this to switching to the 2 volt scale on your > digital multimeter when trying to measure the O2 sensor > voltage (wouldn't make sense use the 200 volt scale). > > The stock temperature sensor is a two wire device where > one end is connected to ground and the other to the ecm > temperature input. > > (Use fixed width font to view) > > Stock temp sensor: > > ----- to ecm CTS or MAT input > | > / > \ > / resistance varies with temperature > \ > / > \ > | > | > gnd-- > > > How to hook up a temperature sensor 'simulator' > > > nc-- (nc = not connected) > | > / > \ > /<---- to ecm CTS or MAT input > ?k \ > / > \ > | > | > gnd-- > > The ecm will switch in a different pullup when it determines > that the temperature has entered a certain range. This > 'switch point' will correspond to a particular resistance > of the temperature sensor (there's probably some hysteresis > built into the switching algorithum). After the switch > happens, the voltage across the sensor (or pot) changes. > Even though the voltage has changed, the resistance hasn't > and this still corresponds to the same temperature as > before the switch. > > The value of the resistance range of the pot should be > large enough to cover the resistance range of the > sensor it is replacing. I don't have a table for the > CTS or MAT sensor available at the moment, anyone want > to help with this? > > The problem with wiring CTS/MAT like a TPS is that the > voltage before and after the switch will not change the > same way as it would if only two terminals of the pot > were used. > > +5--- > | DON'T USE THIS! > / > \ > /<---- to ecm CTS or MAT input > 5k \ > / > \ > | > | > gnd-- > > The Thevenin equivalent of the TPS style hookup is a > single resistor connected to some voltage between +5 and > ground which won't give the same results as a resistor > to ground. Math left to the user:) > > > Tom > > > On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > Now, that we know there is pull down resistors, what do I do with > > the 5K pots that I've been using for TPS and MAP signal inputs?. > > I'm over my head here so I need a item by item explaination. > > ie., a lot more specific than saying, buffing the output with an op-amp. > > Thanks > > Bruce > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 17:06:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05467 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:06:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailexcite.com (excite-www.whowhere.com [209.1.236.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05463 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:06:18 -0400 Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by mailexcite.com; Mon Aug 3 14:05:33 1998 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:05:33 -0700 From: "richard vandervoort" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: george.reiswig@intel.com X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Open loop at WOT??? X-Sender-Ip: 199.238.253.12 Organization: MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The OEMs purposely run rich at WOT because the engine runs cooler. Emission are not regulated and there isn't any effect on MPG numbers since they do not use WOT during fuel economy testing, so there isn't any penalty for running rich. Someone has probably already answered this, but I couldn't find it in the archive. Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 17:12:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05591 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:12:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from calliope1.fm.intel.com (calliope1.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05586 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:12:22 -0400 Received: from fmsmsx29.FM.INTEL.COM (fmsmsx29.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.29]) by calliope1.fm.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA14719; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:11:59 GMT Received: by FMSMSX29 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:11:54 -0700 Message-ID: <438BA6CBABC5D111AC4100A0C96B75B3D6C0F3@FMSMSX41> From: "Reiswig, George" To: "'richard vandervoort'" , diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: "Reiswig, George" , "Burleson, RandyX D" Subject: RE: Open loop at WOT??? Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:11:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the response, Richard. I suspected that that might be part of it, but wasn't sure. I guess the OEMs don't think their cooling systems are up to the task at consistent WOT? Or is it because detonation is more likely at WOT? At any rate, thank you for the answer. GR > -----Original Message----- > From: richard vandervoort [SMTP:fastski@mailexcite.com] > Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:06 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Cc: george.reiswig@intel.com > Subject: Open loop at WOT??? > > The OEMs purposely run rich at WOT because the engine > runs cooler. Emission are not regulated and there > isn't any effect on MPG numbers since they do not use > WOT during fuel economy testing, so there isn't any > penalty for running rich. Someone has probably already answered this, but > I couldn't find it in the archive. > > > Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! > http://www.mailexcite.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 17:35:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05939 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:35:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05934 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:35:49 -0400 Received: from bert (bert [131.204.46.47]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA10013 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:35:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:35:46 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" X-Sender: gparmer@bert To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP In-Reply-To: <35C60DE9.7003@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 3 Aug 1998 goflo@pacbell.net wrote: > This is the most likely, and will give 0 to nearly 5V adj > 5V ______ > | > / 5K pot, linear taper > \ > /<------ Variable voltage to ECU input > \ > / > | | > | > Ground As far as **I** know, this is just like an OEM TPS. I did this for my MAP also. No smoke yet. As pointed out...NOT FOR CTS...CTS doesn't need a Voltage, it needs a Resistance. In which case 2 leads of the pot will get you there. I have noticed that it doesn't seem to be linear--now explained by the fact that the ECM reads the resistance differently at different temps. Thanks Peter, Tom, Walter and/or whoever else has been repeating this... Does anyone care if TPS and MAP have 50k or 200k pulldowns? Using a 5k pot makes the effect of the pulldown very small, IMHO. Movement of the pot is so sensitive that a few % is the least of your worries. The fact that CTS doesn't change linearly has little effect on anything either since this is a nearly constant variable. $0.02, -greg w/ benched '7747 From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 17:44:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06154 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:44:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06145 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:44:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA09679 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:44:22 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: T Hergen To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Of course, if I had read the subject line more carefully, I would have realized I was off topic... The comments I made apply to the temp sensors, not TPS and MAP... Sorry for the confusion. Tom On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, T Hergen wrote: > Here's some possible values... > > Peter indicated the that some gm ecms switch in a 348 Ohm or 4 KOhm pullup > (see his 7/31/98 post). Looking at the temp vs resistance tables for a > CTS and IAT, there is quite a range to cover. Over 100K for very low > temps and about 177 Ohm around 100C. The 348 Ohm resistor would likely be > switched in at the higher temps. > > Given this range, a 100 KOhm log taper potentiometer would work. Use only > two terminals, the wiper and the one that shows 100 KOhm at one end and > much less than 50 KOhm when the shaft is in the center position. > > With a 100 KOhm pot it will be difficult to adjust the high temperature > end of the scale with any precision. For this reason, it would be nice to > be able to switch in a 5 KOhm to 1 KOhm pot (again using only two > terminals) to cover this range. This "user" switching of pots is > independent of when the ecm decides to switch in a different pullup. > > Adding a 100 Ohm resistor in series with the wire to the ecm temperature > input would reduce the peak current that could be drawn and reduce the > chance of damaging the ecm. > > Does anyone know if the 730 or 165 ecms are ones that really do switch the > pullups? > > Thanks, > Tom > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 17:44:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06156 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:44:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06138 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:44:37 -0400 Received: from bert (bert [131.204.46.47]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA10444 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:44:33 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:44:33 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" X-Sender: gparmer@bert To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, T Hergen wrote: > Does anyone know if the 730 or 165 ecms are ones that really do switch the > pullups? The '7747 seems to and I thot it was the stupidest ECM made. :) It doesn't need IAT...a value that will undoubtedly make this more relavent. The log taper pot looks like a fine idea, tho. BTW--ya think it switches pullups or just the V? Upping the voltage would have the same effect. -greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 17:49:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06299 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:49:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [206.180.156.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06291 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:49:16 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-25.brokersys.com [206.180.156.26]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA15158 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 16:53:20 -0500 Message-ID: <35C63217.A6B846F4@brokersys.com> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 16:56:39 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP References: <004e01bdbf19$865ef6a0$16198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > ... > > >Bruce, > >what was wrong with using the pots? .. > My concern is ruining the ecms. Just I got a real budget, and this > could get expensive. For the several minutes so far noting seems > wrong, but I plan I spending many long hours at this. > Cheers > Bruce > > Bruce, there's only a couple of ways I can think of that might damage the ecm (through MAP and TPS pots). i) If the 5v for the pots does not come from the ecm and is on when the ecm power is off. ii) If the 5v for the pots does come from the ecm, but is connected by mistake to the pot wiper. When you turn the wiper to ground you'd short out the ecm 5v source. ( done that! luckily damaged only the pot). For the ecms I work on (Lucas) there is internal protection for all the above (up to a point..). I'm sure GM ecms are better. iii)Static discharge. Before touching any of the ecm wires touch the grouded ecm case. Don't know if this actually does anything, but it makes me feel safer. Following all the above, I've had only one mysterious 'death' in over 600 repairs. Walter From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 17:56:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA06552 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:56:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA06544 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:56:48 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-222.nordson.com [207.206.59.222]) by users.qual.net (8.9.0/8.9.0/QualNet) with SMTP id RAA26393 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:56:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <030601bdbf28$aa826030$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Open loop at WOT??? Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:49:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The V-12 Mercedes engine originally ran rich for max power at WOT. It was recalibrated to remain in closed loop at WOT to reduce emissions. The power was reduced from 406 hp to 389. Top speed was still governed to 155 mph. I think warranty considerations cause most OEMs to set the fuel rich at WOT. Gary Derian -----Original Message----- >Thanks for the response, Richard. I suspected that that might be part of >it, but wasn't sure. I guess the OEMs don't think their cooling systems are >up to the task at consistent WOT? Or is it because detonation is more >likely at WOT? > >At any rate, thank you for the answer. > >GR > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: richard vandervoort [SMTP:fastski@mailexcite.com] >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:06 PM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Cc: george.reiswig@intel.com >> Subject: Open loop at WOT??? >> >> The OEMs purposely run rich at WOT because the engine >> runs cooler. Emission are not regulated and there >> isn't any effect on MPG numbers since they do not use >> WOT during fuel economy testing, so there isn't any >> penalty for running rich. Someone has probably already answered this, but >> I couldn't find it in the archive. >> >> >> Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! >> http://www.mailexcite.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 18:10:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA06781 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:10:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06775 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:10:03 -0400 Received: from mich.com (pm004-39.dialip.mich.com [207.75.116.140]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31597 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:10:01 -0400 Message-ID: <35C60C5A.9F1EBEFE@mich.com> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 15:15:38 -0400 From: Scott Knight Organization: Creative Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey Tom, > I so far found that I can communicate with earlier ECM's. However I still > cannot talk to a 94 GM truck PCM, or my 95 OBD1 PCM in my Corvette. I can > talk to both PCM's while using a 486 slower computer. Rinda tells me it's the > clock speed of the CPU's conflicting with the communication rate of the > ECM/PCM's. You want wierd, I have a P5-133 Micron notebook and have tried about everything except for the /f and cannot get it to link up to a 92 Park Avenue, while it repeatedly links to my 95 Impala SS and 96 K3500 without problem. 96 Impala (OBDII) seems to be a problem, but my buddy with a 486 notebook links to that car just fine. Seems my problem is exactly opposite of yours...I just figured it was time to sell the Park Avenue . Later dates. -- Scott Knight mailto:sknight@mich.com http://www.mich.com/~sknight IRC:SS396man ICQ:8353618 '95 Black Impala SS '96 Black K3500 Extended Cab Duallie 7.4L Vortec '94 Ducati 900SS CR From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 18:38:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA07400 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:38:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA07393 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 18:38:35 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-207-104-101-112.sndg02.pacbell.net [207.104.101.112]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id PAA08006 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35C63BBF.DA1@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 15:37:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulldown resistors for TPS MAP References: <006801bdbf1b$56fd3960$16198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > >This is the most likely, and will give 0 to nearly 5V adj > > > > 5V ______ > > | > > / 5K pot, linear taper > > \ > > /<------ Variable voltage to ECU input > > \ > > / > > | | > > | > > Ground > > This is what I have.. > > > > /* less likely */ > > > >5V pull-down _____ > >voltage from | > >ECU | > > / 5K linear taper pot > > \ > > /<---------/\/\/\-------- Ground > > \ 1K > > / > > | > > | > > No connection > > Where is the ecm connected?. Or in this version just thru the 5K. MAP connector is 5V, GND, & Signal so use schematic #1. You should be able to ID the connections at the ECU - One will be 5V, one GND, and the odd one out will be the signal input. Put the 5V to one side of the pot, GND to the other, and connect the pot wiper to the signal input. My guess is TPS is the same deal. > The Coolant temp sensor, and Intake Air Temp have two terminal > connectors... Hook one end of the pot to one & the wiper to the other. What Mr Hergen says about a log taper pot makes sense. If you have the actual sensors try reading sensor resistance at ambient & at 212 F (boiling water) with an ohmmeter. This'll give you an idea of what range is required, independent of possible internal switching of shunt resistances. Murphy being my constant companion, I'd freeze the damn sensors, measure resistance, and then put that value resistance in series with the pot as a current-limiting precaution. Or heat them and do likewise, if the tempco is negative. In other words whatever the lowest sensor resistance you can produce by heating or cooling it. The series resistance does'nt need to be exact. > and the TPS, MAP have three terminal. I verified that > there is 5v to them, a ground, and the sensor signal to ecm (unk) > Cheers > Bruce > > > >This will give approx 1V to 5V adj. If you need less than 1V > >( say .9V ) use a smaller current limiting resistor, but at > >least 500 ohms or so. This resistor prevents shorting the 5V > >input to ground at the high end of the pots travel ... If the > >ECU uses this scheme the current is probably internally limited > >but we dont need to find out the hard way that it is'nt. It is > >Monday, after all. > > > >If this doesnt make sense describe the connections as fully as > >possible and we'll beat on it some more. > > > >Regards, Jack > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 19:13:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA08087 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:13:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08082 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:13:21 -0400 From: TWong29770@aol.com Received: from TWong29770@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7KPGa22301 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:12:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e48d9c.35c643e2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:12:33 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Scott, That is weird, as Diacom is not even suspose to link to any OBD2 cars that I know of. From what Rinda tells me our software as delivered will not link to anything newer than a 1995 OBD1 car. That is very weird. There are a couple other options that we can do to link up to OBD2 cars, and that is to buy some new diagnostic software from Ease Simulation. However even though it apears to do anything and everything we may want from this kind of software it is very expensive when purchased with the data logging capabilities. For their consumer software without graphing and data logging it goes for $300 with one (gm) interface, extra interfaces run at $200 each. Their pro version goes for oever $1200!, and that only comes with one interface! Here is their website if anyone is interested: http://www.easesim.com: Tom Wong From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 20:12:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08739 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:12:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rs422.bb-elec.com ([206.1.0.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08733 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:12:33 -0400 Received: from mfahrion.bb-elec.com ([206.1.0.85]) by rs422.bb-elec.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 103-48821U100L100S0) with SMTP id AAA418 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:11:27 -0500 From: "Mike Fahrion" To: Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:11:27 -0500 Message-ID: <01bdbf3c$6c42c4e0$550001ce@mfahrion.bb-elec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >That is weird, as Diacom is not even suspose to link to any OBD2 cars that I >know of. From what Rinda tells me our software as delivered will not link to >anything newer than a 1995 OBD1 car. That is very weird. Some '96 GM's still support the old ALDL communications on unused pins of the OBDII connector. A subset(?) of the J1850 commands are available through these pins, although at a lower bandwidth than the OBDII bus. We have some info on this available on our obdii site at www.obdii.com - and, if I can insert a shameless plug, a nice DOS-based OBDII GM scantool. Some '96 f-bodies have the same dual-bus setup. ALDL appears to have disappeared by '97. Also, some '95's support the J1850 bus in addition to ALDL. Sort of a transition period. -mike mfahrion@bb-elec.com >There are a couple other options that we can do to link up to OBD2 cars, and >that is to buy some new diagnostic software from Ease Simulation. However even >though it apears to do anything and everything we may want from this kind of >software it is very expensive when purchased with the data logging >capabilities. For their consumer software without graphing and data logging >it goes for $300 with one (gm) interface, extra interfaces run at $200 each. > >Their pro version goes for oever $1200!, and that only comes with one >interface! Here is their website if anyone is interested: > >http://www.easesim.com: > >Tom Wong From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 21:08:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA09225 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:08:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp1.mailsrvcs.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09217 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:08:33 -0400 Received: from gte.net (1Cust90.tnt5.dfw5.da.uu.net [153.37.249.90]) by smtp1.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id UAA10642 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:08:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35C65F29.1E4346C9@gte.net> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 20:08:57 -0500 From: Terry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops References: <3e48d9c.35c643e2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu TWong29770@aol.com wrote: > > Scott, > > That is weird, as Diacom is not even suspose to link to any OBD2 cars that I > know of. From what Rinda tells me our software as delivered will not link to > anything newer than a 1995 OBD1 car. That is very weird. Several people I know have had good luck linking with the '96 OBD2 cars by entering the VIN as a '95 model... This appears to only work for the '96 year models - '97+ don't work... > > There are a couple other options that we can do to link up to OBD2 cars, > http://www.easesim.com: There are some other lower priced alternatives too. http://www.carcomp.com/ and http://www.obdii.com/autotap.html hope this helps, T. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 23:26:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA10533 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:26:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@smtp.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10529 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:26:43 -0400 Received: from xu300 (tahoe2-d67.foothill.net [209.76.43.67]) by ns1.foothill.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA07967 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:25:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "TBK" To: Subject: Re: Open loop at WOT??? Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:23:22 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdbf57$3bab8b80$432b4cd1@xu300> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I was told at WOT, Closed Loop values are used. It is pseudo-quasi open loop. TK -----Original Message----- From: Reiswig, George To: 'richard vandervoort' ; diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: Reiswig, George ; Burleson, RandyX D Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:55 PM Subject: RE: Open loop at WOT??? >Thanks for the response, Richard. I suspected that that might be part of >it, but wasn't sure. I guess the OEMs don't think their cooling systems are >up to the task at consistent WOT? Or is it because detonation is more >likely at WOT? > >At any rate, thank you for the answer. > >GR > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: richard vandervoort [SMTP:fastski@mailexcite.com] >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:06 PM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Cc: george.reiswig@intel.com >> Subject: Open loop at WOT??? >> >> The OEMs purposely run rich at WOT because the engine >> runs cooler. Emission are not regulated and there >> isn't any effect on MPG numbers since they do not use >> WOT during fuel economy testing, so there isn't any >> penalty for running rich. Someone has probably already answered this, but >> I couldn't find it in the archive. >> >> >> Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! >> http://www.mailexcite.com > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 3 23:55:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA10811 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:55:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10807 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:55:14 -0400 Received: from MARK (ppp-209-77-89-146.scrm01.pacbell.net [209.77.89.146]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA19978 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 20:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007d01bdc0ee$3978a800$92594dd1@MARK> From: "Mark Romans" To: Subject: Re: Open loop at WOT??? Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:56:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I understand the "Learning" that the ecm does in closed loop is applied to WOT values as well. If it is necc to add fuel to get 14.7 afr in closed loop it adds the same amount of fuel in WOT. In wot it just goes to a commanded AFR that is richer than 14.7-1. My 87 vette stock commanded 11.97-1 at higher rpm's with the stock prom. All fixed now though. 13.0 to one commanded at higher r's, 12.5 at peak torque. Pulls much better. 02 sensor says over 800mv at wot. Mark -----Original Message----- From: TBK To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Open loop at WOT??? >I was told at WOT, Closed Loop values are used. It is pseudo-quasi open >loop. > >TK >-----Original Message----- >From: Reiswig, George >To: 'richard vandervoort' ; >diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Cc: Reiswig, George ; Burleson, RandyX D > >Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:55 PM >Subject: RE: Open loop at WOT??? > > >>Thanks for the response, Richard. I suspected that that might be part of >>it, but wasn't sure. I guess the OEMs don't think their cooling systems >are >>up to the task at consistent WOT? Or is it because detonation is more >>likely at WOT? >> >>At any rate, thank you for the answer. >> >>GR >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: richard vandervoort [SMTP:fastski@mailexcite.com] >>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:06 PM >>> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>> Cc: george.reiswig@intel.com >>> Subject: Open loop at WOT??? >>> >>> The OEMs purposely run rich at WOT because the engine >>> runs cooler. Emission are not regulated and there >>> isn't any effect on MPG numbers since they do not use >>> WOT during fuel economy testing, so there isn't any >>> penalty for running rich. Someone has probably already answered this, >but >>> I couldn't find it in the archive. >>> >>> >>> Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! >>> http://www.mailexcite.com >> > From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 00:22:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA11310 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:22:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA11302 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:22:28 -0400 Received: from mich.com (pm004-02.dialip.mich.com [207.75.116.103]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29127 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 00:21:39 -0400 Message-ID: <35C68B4F.4181CAAD@mich.com> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:17:19 -0400 From: Scott Knight Organization: Creative Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops References: <3e48d9c.35c643e2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu TWong29770@aol.com wrote: > > Scott, > > That is weird, as Diacom is not even suspose to link to any OBD2 cars that I > know of. From what Rinda tells me our software as delivered will not link to > anything newer than a 1995 OBD1 car. That is very weird. Well, it connects in 'legacy' mode which I understand the OE's are required to provide for some time while we all get up and running with comprehensive OBDII tools. Back in 1996 when the OBDII cars came along, I remember the local dealership not even having the OBDII software (if they are really upgradeable) for the TECH-1. It took Snap-On until sometime late last year to get us the software for the scanner that would read the OBDII properly. My Diacom+ shipped with an OBDII adapter, that while it plugs into the DLC, it reads the legacy terminal only and ignores the OBDII signal altogether. Bob Bailey does the same thing with his Scanmaster for the OBDII LT1 engines (which I run all the time). What these tools can't do in legacy mode is read and reset trouble codes and all the OBDII specific parameters are not reported as well. Hope this helps. Later dates. -- Scott Knight mailto:sknight@mich.com http://www.mich.com/~sknight IRC:SS396man ICQ:8353618 '95 Black Impala SS '96 Black K3500 Extended Cab Duallie 7.4L Vortec '94 Ducati 900SS CR From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 01:05:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA11750 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:05:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA11746 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:05:05 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-3.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.72]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id BAA00893 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:05:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019f01bdbf65$e41622e0$48198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Pulll uups/downz Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:08:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Only at CSH, HQ.. The bench problem I was having, turns out to have been a bad pot. 30 oz Ball Peen took care of the recalibration. Cheers Bruce The staff was just getting used to seeing LEDs flickering and not having the fire department show up to turn them off. From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 01:42:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA12147 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:42:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12143 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:42:34 -0400 From: Luquette@aol.com Received: from Luquette@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7FNKa03745 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:42:01 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Two cooling fans: how about 1 - two speed fan? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If space is a concern, a fan can be made for two speed running with two different temp sensors and a resistor as well. This setup saves space in tight compartments. Chrisotpher M Luquette From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 03:15:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12981 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:15:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA12977 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:15:01 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm2-090.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.90]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA18030 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35C6B0A7.93629277@mcn.net> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:56:39 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Timing in ref to TDC References: <35C74BEE.68B2C271@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jason Weir wrote: > > I read a thread a while ago that talked about timing in reference to TDC > when using the 747. As I recall the 5.7 V8 had a 6 degree advance at > the distributor while the 4.3 was timed at 0 at the distributor. Actually, the majority of the 7747 controlled engines are timed at zero deg. Almost a standard to live by...if there weren't so many other standards to choose from. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 03:29:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13167 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:29:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13163 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:29:52 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p40.scotland.net [148.176.232.40]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA13509 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:29:10 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35C6B922.3E6EAA05@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 08:32:50 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Two cooling fans very simple solution very cascade control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Most cooling fan switches are mounted near the bottom of the rad on the outlet side, this is the coolest part of the rad. If a second identical switch is mounted higher up on the rad it will see a higher temperature and therefore cut-in earlier and run longer From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 06:38:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA14489 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:38:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA14483 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:37:59 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-130-69.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.130.69]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00926 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:37:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35C6E46A.D31EEFFF@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 06:37:30 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulll uups/downz References: <019f01bdbf65$e41622e0$48198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey wait a minute....30 oz hammers are limited in their fine tuning ability, they can get it only partially rite, like on carbs.....:-))) GENE Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Only at CSH, HQ.. > The bench problem I was having, turns out to have been a bad pot. > 30 oz Ball Peen took care of the recalibration. > Cheers > Bruce The staff was just getting used to seeing LEDs flickering > and not having the fire department show up to turn them > off. -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 11:01:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06015 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:01:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06011 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:01:04 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA29074 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:00:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808041500.KAA29074@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny7-25.ix.netcom.com(206.217.124.153) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028982; Tue Aug 4 10:00:26 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 21:21:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35C68B4F.4181CAAD@mich.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:17:19 -0400 > From: Scott Knight > Organization: Creative Technologies > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have not seen any 'legacy' requirements. There is no legislated phase in period for protocol, there is technolgy exemptions, especially for misfire problems. I developed a embedded OBD2 VPW scanner and module using the published stand. J1976 codes in early 96. The only problem is it would not work if plugged into GM OBD2 car. I had use of a Snap-On in late 96, that had what snap-on calls 'generic' which is J1976 for Euro cars. So I made a module and scanner using ISO-9141. In 97 I decoded a 97 C-3500 vortech using a upgraded snap-on. I found it used J2190 data packs which seems to be in violation of the Clean Air Act, since J1979 is required. A 98 Dodge RAM used 8192 baud which is not even a OBD2 protocol. A 98 Ford used differential PWM but have not yet attempted to decipher, some one the list, did say that the Ford manual gives info about byte deciphering. I have not yet tried this years snap-on upgrade, it seems that it might have the requrired legislated J1979 'generic' open standard for all US cars? , this would make life much easier, thou data packets or fast. This is prime example of the only people following US laws, are the the ones that don't live here.. alex p > Well, it connects in 'legacy' mode which I understand the OE's are > required to provide for some time while we all get up and running with > comprehensive OBDII tools. Back in 1996 when the OBDII cars came along, > I remember the local dealership not even having the OBDII software (if > they are really upgradeable) for the TECH-1. It took Snap-On until > sometime late last year to get us the software for the scanner that > would read the OBDII properly. My Diacom+ shipped with an OBDII > adapter, that while it plugs into the DLC, it reads the legacy terminal > only and ignores the OBDII signal altogether. Bob Bailey does the same > thing with his Scanmaster for the OBDII LT1 engines (which I run all the > time). What these tools can't do in legacy mode is read and reset > trouble codes and all the OBDII specific parameters are not reported as > well. Hope this helps. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 13:33:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07716 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:33:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from server1.mich.com (root@server1.mich.com [198.108.16.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07712 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:32:57 -0400 Received: from mich.com (pm004-34.dialip.mich.com [207.75.116.135]) by server1.mich.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA31655 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:32:53 -0400 Message-ID: <35C68B4F.4181CAAD@mich.com> Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:17:19 -0400 From: Scott Knight Organization: Creative Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Diacom plus on Pentium laptops References: <3e48d9c.35c643e2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu TWong29770@aol.com wrote: > > Scott, > > That is weird, as Diacom is not even suspose to link to any OBD2 cars that I > know of. From what Rinda tells me our software as delivered will not link to > anything newer than a 1995 OBD1 car. That is very weird. Well, it connects in 'legacy' mode which I understand the OE's are required to provide for some time while we all get up and running with comprehensive OBDII tools. Back in 1996 when the OBDII cars came along, I remember the local dealership not even having the OBDII software (if they are really upgradeable) for the TECH-1. It took Snap-On until sometime late last year to get us the software for the scanner that would read the OBDII properly. My Diacom+ shipped with an OBDII adapter, that while it plugs into the DLC, it reads the legacy terminal only and ignores the OBDII signal altogether. Bob Bailey does the same thing with his Scanmaster for the OBDII LT1 engines (which I run all the time). What these tools can't do in legacy mode is read and reset trouble codes and all the OBDII specific parameters are not reported as well. Hope this helps. Later dates. -- Scott Knight mailto:sknight@mich.com http://www.mich.com/~sknight IRC:SS396man ICQ:8353618 '95 Black Impala SS '96 Black K3500 Extended Cab Duallie 7.4L Vortec '94 Ducati 900SS CR From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 18:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09747 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:00:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailout04.btx.dtag.de (mailout04.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.152]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA09742 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:00:07 -0400 Received: from fwd12.btx.dtag.de (fwd12.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.172]) by mailout04.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0z3oKw-00001C-00; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:09:38 +0200 Received: (091059380-0001(btxid)@[193.159.44.145]) by fwd12.btx.dtag.de id ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:09:36 +0200 Message-Id: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:09:36 +0200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu References: <933713F1FB7BD111AC2300A0C98F1AD10102BDEF@MILXPR06> Subject: Re: Audi Motronic Info X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Sender: 091059380-0001@t-online.de From: wenning.motorsport@t-online.de (Alexander Wenning) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Buchholz, Steven schrieb: > I recently purchased a 1991 Audi Quattro with a 32 valve 3.6 liter V8. This > car has a Motronic control box ... I was wondering if there was anyone on > the list that might have information about the system; how it works, what > the timing maps control and where they're located, info about differences > between the US and European versions of the engine, etc ... Hi Steven, e-mail me the original chip directly (I´ll unsubscribe the list for two weeks) and I´ll send you the informations on 20.8.98 after my holiday. Regards Alex Wenning wenning.motorsport@t-online.de From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 4 18:53:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10176 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:53:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10172 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:53:44 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA01183 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dopey (as5200-1.sl016.cns.vt.edu [128.173.34.94]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA10809 for ; Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:53:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980804184814.0094a100@mail.vt.edu> X-Sender: dubovsky@mail.vt.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:48:24 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stephen Dubovsky Subject: Chrysler 2.5L timing? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Help! I've finally got my 83 jeep 2.5L running w/ EFI and now it's time to attack the spark issue. I've set the timing at 12deg BDC at 1200rpm per the haynes manual/underhood sticker (w/o the vac advance line connected), but what should the advance curve look like vs. RPM? The adv. is mechanical I believe, but the old computer MIGHT have had a role in it all (don't know, using an MSD-6 for spark and SDS EM-2D for EFI now). What should this thing go to? Im new at tuning engines and assume it should end up somewhere around 25 deg or so? Whay do you guys/gals think the curve should look like? Tnx, Stephen Dubovsky From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 05:27:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA14271 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 05:27:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.dancris.com (d12-mfs.dancris.com [204.177.81.12] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA14267 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 05:27:26 -0400 Received: from fast by user2.dancris.com (8.8.8/DANCRIS-1.2) id CAA15977 for <>; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:28:43 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <35C7C409.8E76F234@xxx.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 02:31:37 +0000 From: TC Organization: Darwins End X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Program for Changing fuel mixture in a GMC C3 eprom X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------0E30115932049BF104CBAD03" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0E30115932049BF104CBAD03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A source in Forth --------------0E30115932049BF104CBAD03 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Gmcpatch.zip" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Gmcpatch.zip" UEsDBBQAAAAIAC4P6SSYU+sHcQMAADQKAAAMAAAAR01DUEFUQ0guNFRIlVbbbtNKFH235H/Y KQ+HNDjHqW9jCj0djx2ayq0jxyUgilBOG6qgNkFuUPl8ZmaP7ZmScsnLjvestfZVY1/CmzM2 pRU7GfrViW3Zlu/GIbDifFbR80qcDpP3VTazLSBxYB5UNMkzfgAQmwdlMZ9JPzH9rMhnIgYr M1plwvUpuRh3QYDmeVEJhH4kw8DAkPqkYkukjNcGgH1gtCzpe4k7z+b934KKPO0LrZfiyZmk 7+A5XG1un0G9eXgGjgOr6+/QlxWlF1Noa4Sj10CToqz2IFlcI3pPwoq3WdkFM2FSGWFaOgPb OsQcjkUSPKXHSZD/od8m2KQN7BgOWxav9rcs0ZGW1etYHGgQd7F6oHJks4szzllcX9ec9W29 RYYLTllUWP0AZnM6hf/SAiYi3gDyopg2AkK7zKgo0nn1eXW7XC/ulkeO6nKSw7woU663+bpc t413Rm0j2WL9z1aeQjI5B6Gw1+J+Xqx6yRsv87m63dwvIS2LaTsBhLw6MrUlxdRuFw8+8NTa EXyEfFJlJc25e9emdefsjLfmCSnZ4b+W0to5L/nR7n4+EUNP4m8SF731+UC75vngyJ2QkNmU 01og66G6fBgNdNHeo2Ff8Z5vn562PF7+0bwf6hVH/vHEs7re1JK0Wt/oAQ7VFYO7SsvTKvJJ POQIcXCSvRPGtlwYTsa2dQmL+stWIISru35cFyr2AtwAzViaUSzNgY8mk8Y7QBMJY1sjho9U Gh+JIaqFCZoUDUICqogI9V3NC6FUhQidEYaKQjQ+Ej1U9ZX4SI8RYf4RqkXKOUaiSi7AjMNY U4WIaVAgmAaJkdjEQGiooAQNdoXgE2EmMdIrj1AmwsSJZ4RSxFQRUTXydpRDsEaCqcbYqpgg scmK7KpKQbGMGJ1UOIe4I5dwc3e1uL/71WqMEmMn1PTxzMMn39u1GkGo70QzYaP7j1YjUFtE jNGq7o2M7qXGajShAj0GQSdJjLZ5xmo0ezs2YsQGA2ViZq5GoufYEFOj3wihB+ZqZMZo0Rkj P6bdhLjxd62GmimhWjkQp1oooL9aDdWVpjh00rAzQ9saVieZvEzSjE3OaC5ucy9wj3zXE3d5 c4MTcPG6K8TXFv6XT6cwge6TweOxOBv2/1UI/pOI5kXfuMW7GP/jv0M+X4yK29q9UOTXYZY2 d55t/QBQSwECFAAUAAAACAAuD+kkmFPrB3EDAAA0CgAADAAAAAAAAAABACAAAAAAAAAAR01D UEFUQ0guNFRIUEsFBgAAAAABAAEAOgAAAJsDAAAAAA== --------------0E30115932049BF104CBAD03-- From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 06:36:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA14877 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 06:36:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA14873 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 06:36:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199808051036.GAA14873@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: (qmail 19401 invoked from network); 5 Aug 1998 10:36:31 -0000 Received: from usern906.uk.uudial.com (HELO julian) (193.149.86.177) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 1998 10:36:31 -0000 From: "Georg Faustmann" To: Subject: Re: Audi Motronic Info Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:34:48 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Steve, If you can, read the Eprom in an Eprom programmer, and email the file to these guys :- http://www.racelogic.co.uk they will be able to tell you timing maps, fuel maps etc. and can suggest ways of changing them. Georg From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 10:08:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA16383 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:08:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@ns1.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16378 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:08:38 -0400 Received: from xu300 (tahoe-d33.foothill.net [209.76.43.33]) by ns1.foothill.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA24837 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:07:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "TBK" To: Subject: Re: Program for Changing fuel mixture in a GMC C3 eprom Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:05:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdc07a$133f4aa0$212b4cd1@xu300> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Haven't used forth in years. Dup Dup Swap .... TK -----Original Message----- From: TC To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 2:53 AM Subject: Program for Changing fuel mixture in a GMC C3 eprom >A source in Forth > From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 11:28:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17159 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:28:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from goldrush.com (goldrush.com [206.171.171.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17155 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:28:41 -0400 From: rhuish@goldrush.com Received: from bobs-p233 (AC-249.goldrush.com [207.104.48.249]) by goldrush.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA09919 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808051526.IAA09919@goldrush.com> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:34:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Add_fuel_inj Priority: normal In-reply-to: <006801bdbf1b$56fd3960$16198fd1@nacelp> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I pulled the Add_fuel_inj,zip from the archives, but am unable to read / print the schematic or board layout files. The readme states those files are preset for a LaserJet but Win95 doesn't give me any sort of readable printer output. Win95 DOS doesn't support the "print" command so I'm somewhat at a loss. Suggestions anyone? Bob Cuda-65 - Angels Camp, Calif. cudabob@workmail.com http://www.goldrush.com/~rhuish/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 12:46:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18028 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:46:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA18024 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:46:04 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:45:53 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: delco part numbers Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:04:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I would like to use Delco integrated circuits from salvaged computers in my own injection designs. I have the C3 chipset Pinouts, is there information on the later computers ? I also have the Delco electro-mechanical cruise control module, is A chipset list out there for it ? Thanks Don From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 13:36:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18595 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:36:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18591 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:36:25 -0400 Received: from execpc.com (precisionsgovernors.com [207.67.31.253] (may be forged)) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id MAA02775 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:36:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35C896DE.95147A08@execpc.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:31:10 -0500 From: Chad Clendening X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Add_fuel_inj References: <199808051526.IAA09919@goldrush.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu try : "copy file.prn lpt1 " or whatever printer port the printer is connected to Chad Clendening From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 14:25:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19080 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:25:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzserv.kemet.com (dmzserv.kemet.com [206.74.114.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19074 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:25:25 -0400 Received: from smtpgw.kemet.com ([10.1.251.7]) by dmzserv.kemet.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 434 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:18:30 -0400 Received: by smtpgw.kemet.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 85256657.00654266 ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:26:01 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: KEMET From: "Mike Turner" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:25:48 -0400 Subject: Re: delco part numbers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I, for one, would be VERY interested in the pinouts, descriptions, and data for any chips used the Delco or Delphi stuff. No one else on this list should be interested at all. ; ) Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com on 08/05/98 12:04:05 PM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: (bcc: Mike Turner/ENGR/HQ/KEMET/US) Subject: delco part numbers I would like to use Delco integrated circuits from salvaged computers in my own injection designs. I have the C3 chipset Pinouts, is there information on the later computers ? I also have the Delco electro-mechanical cruise control module, is A chipset list out there for it ? Thanks Don From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 15:15:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA19606 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:15:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from algw1.lucent.com (algw1.lucent.com [205.147.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA19601 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:15:19 -0400 Received: from nwmail.wh.lucent.com by alig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id PAA06362; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:34:28 -0400 Received: by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id PAA23849; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:14:56 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id PAA23846; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:14:56 -0400 Message-ID: <35C8AE37.63F4D21D@lucent.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 15:10:47 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-EMS-1.3.1 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Two cooling fans (was: 165 question) References: <35C56930.9E0E7DD8@post.almac.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The new camaro F body uses a variation of the two fan Theme. When you reach the low temp fan limit the two fans are put in series, so they both run at 1/2 the battery voltage voltage, and speed. It makes them much quieter and more effecient than running one on only a part of the radiator. When the second temp limit is reached it uses relays to put each fan accross the battery supply, so they both run at high speed. Ken Andrew W. Macfadyen wrote: > > Some manufacturers use this system I know the UK Rover use it in the higher > performance turbo and V6 models in the 800 range. If you want to take the > electronic route you could do it several ways using a temperature sensor (such > as a thermistor or LM335 sensor) connected to a simple voltage comparator (you > would also need some kind of timer bassed on 555 chip) or a better one chip > solution in the form of the Analog Devices TMP12FP chip which is designed for > use in Pentium PC and actually measures airflow and temperature. > > Andy MacFadyen > > AL8001@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message someone wrote: > > > > >>Wanted to have two fans in pu that came on at > > >>>different temps. Have some minor drivabilty problems in really hot weather > > >>>- hope to have ecm do controlling of fans instead of wiring to have come > > >>>with eng running. > > >>> > > > > It dosn't have to that complicated (searching for a ecm output and table ). > > Look in a auto parts catalog for a water temp switch used for a hot light. > > Many have a small screw covered by paint or sealer. Most of the older Ford > > sensors have a threaded stud with a flat on one side. > > > > Clean off the paint, then turn the screw two turns clockwise. Most engines > > have extra pluged holes in the intake or cylinder heads. Connect the switch to > > the relay for the second fan. Run the engine and adjust the screw to the temp > > you desire. > > > > Simple, easy and cheap. From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 16:54:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA20502 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:54:20 -0400 Received: from commercial.cgocable.net (commercial.cgocable.net [24.226.1.206]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA20498 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:54:16 -0400 Received: from scottfea (cgowave-7-206.cgocable.net [24.226.7.206]) by commercial.cgocable.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA19589 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:36:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: commercial.cgocable.net: mail owned process doing -bs From: "Scott Feaver" To: Subject: RE: Add_fuel_inj Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:54:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bdc0b3$3411c260$ce07e218@scottfea.cgocable.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-reply-to: <199808051526.IAA09919@goldrush.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Try this: COPY FILENAME.PRN > LPT1 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of > rhuish@goldrush.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 11:35 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Add_fuel_inj > > > I pulled the Add_fuel_inj,zip from the archives, but am unable to > read / print the schematic or board layout files. > > The readme states those files are preset for a LaserJet but Win95 > doesn't give me any sort of readable printer output. Win95 DOS > doesn't support the "print" command so I'm somewhat at a loss. > > Suggestions anyone? > > > Bob Cuda-65 - Angels Camp, Calif. > cudabob@workmail.com > http://www.goldrush.com/~rhuish/ > From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 17:26:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20832 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:26:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20827 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:26:44 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.119]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980805212631.FDXA20509@malinda> for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:26:31 +0000 Message-ID: <35CA21BE.EC50457@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:35:58 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Program for Changing fuel mixture in a GMC C3 eprom X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01bdc07a$133f4aa0$212b4cd1@xu300> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone have any problem compiling gmcpatch.4th I get all kinds of errors any idea what I am doing wrong? What forth standard is used ANSI or some other? Jason -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 17:41:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA20951 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:41:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from di2.disclosure.com (di2.disclosure.com [206.181.208.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA20947 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:41:18 -0400 Received: from disdev1.disclosure.com (disdev1.disclosure.com [192.168.18.100]) by di2.disclosure.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03957 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from unknown (dbr61.disclosure.com [192.168.55.161]) by disdev1.disclosure.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA17508 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 17:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> References: Conversation <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> with last message <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Priority: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Chris Conlon" Subject: two ignition ideas Date: Wed, 05 Aug 98 17:38:42 PDT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi eveyrone, A couple of people (on my other lists) have mentioned various engines with 2 plugs per cylinder. (Not even counting rotaries, diesels, etc.) Apparently in some designs the second plug fires much later, and helps reduce emissions significantly. This led me to a couple of weird ideas for ignition systems. First, take a basically stock ignition system, and build a small inverter to supply 3kV-5kV at a few mA, and a HV capacitor of hopefully several hundred mF. Using some HV diodes, wire this in parallel with the existing ignition system. The idea is to have the main spark fire, and then have the inverter/capacitor continue a lower-current, long duration spark across the now-ionized gap. (You'd need one per cylinder, or some kind of icky switch, etc etc.) Hopefully you'd get more complete combustion, reliable ignition, maybe a bit lower emissions. Has anyone tried this? The idea seems simple enough that I imagine it's been tried and discarded for some reason or other. (No major benefits over a well-done normal ignition, would be my guess.) Second, something made me think that it would be clever/cool to use short-wave UV light to ignite the charge. It generates ozone, after all, which ought to ignite things nicely. I'm not sure how you'd make part of the cylinder head transparent (a quartz glass plug?), or how you'd generate the UV pulses reliably. (Some kind of solid state laser is probably the only thing reliable enough that I can think of. Are there long-life UV flashlamps?) A drawback or benefit is that the charge would no longer be ignited from a single point, but rather a whole region would be ignited. You could control this somewhat by altering how the light shines through the port in the head. Would it be good or bad to have the whole charge ignite at once? I have no idea. A likely benefit is very thorough ignition/combustion, which is where the idea came from in the first place. Anyway, just a couple of wild ideas to stir things up. Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 19:41:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA22033 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:41:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (mta@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA22028 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 19:41:17 -0400 Received: from home.com (cr875931-a.wlfdle1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.78.41]) by mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA6CBE for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:41:09 -0700 Message-ID: <35C8EC33.31CBBB1B@home.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 19:35:15 -0400 From: Victor Tomanov Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-AtHome0402 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system References: Conversation <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> with last message <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The ECU that controls my system doesn't have a diagnostic capacity. I'm at a loss at how to figure out if the ECU is running the motor correctly and if the mixture is realy what it should be. It seems rich. I'm looking for a way to modify the lean rich mixture variable either by taping into one of the sensors or adding a pot to the ECU. Does anyone have a working knowledge of this injecting system? Thanks for any help. From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 20:06:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22289 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:06:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from puce.one.net.au (puce.one.net.au [203.17.224.29]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22285 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:06:21 -0400 Received: from holden ([203.101.3.90]) by puce.one.net.au (Netscape Messaging Server 3.52) with SMTP id AAC6BD for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:05:51 +1000 Message-ID: <000201bdb932$aa2b26e0$5a0365cb@holden> From: "Geoff & Sue Richards" To: "Diy_Efi" Subject: 808 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:44:10 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Could someone please tell me what model Holdens used the 808? Also would anyone be able to point me in the right direction so I can learn about this "Diacom" business and learn to use a home PC to talk to engine management systems.(GMH)I have access to Tech 1 & 2 but would like my own.Snap-On rep will sell scanner but cost is prohibitive Thanks geoffsue@one.net.au From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 21:22:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23042 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:22:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au (digger1.defence.gov.au [203.5.217.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23038 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:22:27 -0400 Received: from exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au (exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.2.94]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA30609 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:51:27 +0930 (CST) Received: from fang.dsto.defence.gov.au ([131.185.2.5]) by exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id QL2XBTG5; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:52:18 +0930 Received: from hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au (hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au [146.221.39.21]) by fang.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02508 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:52:24 +0930 (CST) Received: from [146.221.36.211] ([146.221.36.211]) by hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au with SMTP; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:19:57 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201bdb932$aa2b26e0$5a0365cb@holden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:22:26 +1000 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Steve Lamb Subject: Re: 808 Cc: "Geoff & Sue Richards" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Could someone please tell me what model Holdens used the 808? VN, VP Commodes JE Camiras Some late Astra's (LD ??) Steve Lamb Department of Defence, DSTO Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 21:56:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23391 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:56:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pmi-1.promobility.net (pmi.promobility.net [207.219.14.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23385 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:56:00 -0400 Received: from promobility.net (ip17.ottawa2.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.115.17]) by pmi-1.promobility.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 9-31337L) with ESMTP id AAA345 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:58:12 -0400 Message-ID: <35C90E4E.4571A72@promobility.net> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 22:00:46 -0400 From: Lawrence King Organization: Eh? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: two ignition ideas References: Conversation <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> with last message <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi: Err, Ummm.... Ahhh. The few UV lasers I have worked with don't have enough power output to ionize any significant amount of gas in the available time, but you can always get a bigger laser. So if you ignore that little problem, then you get to the next problem, these lasers are really fragile, just bump the bench they are on and they stop lasing, probably not good for a car, but you could build a more rugged laser. So if you ignore that little problem the next thing you find out is a UV Laser costs about the same as a new Honda Civic. I suspect that is why nobody has tried your idea. -Lawrence- Chris Conlon wrote: > > Hi eveyrone, > Second, something made me think that it would be clever/cool to use > short-wave UV light to ignite the charge. It generates ozone, after > all, which ought to ignite things nicely. I'm not sure how you'd > make part of the cylinder head transparent (a quartz glass plug?), > or how you'd generate the UV pulses reliably. (Some kind of solid > state laser is probably the only thing reliable enough that I can > think of. Are there long-life UV flashlamps?) A drawback or > benefit is that the charge would no longer be ignited from a single > point, but rather a whole region would be ignited. You could > control this somewhat by altering how the light shines through > the port in the head. Would it be good or bad to have the whole > charge ignite at once? I have no idea. A likely benefit is > very thorough ignition/combustion, which is where the idea came > from in the first place. > > Anyway, just a couple of wild ideas to stir things up. > > Chris C. -- Lawrence King lawrence@promobility.net Ottawa Ontario Canada 70 Buick Wildcat, 71 Lotus Elan, 92 Nissan NX2000 I am a three car family (four if you count the Buick as two cars) From diy_efi-owner Wed Aug 5 22:51:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24011 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:51:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au (firewall-user@auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au [202.20.70.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24007 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:51:06 -0400 From: Wayne.MacDonald@zurich.com.au Received: by auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au; id MAA17657; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:50:43 +1000 (EST) Received: from huxch2z.zurich.com.au(192.168.1.27) by auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au via smap (4.1) id xma017605; Thu, 6 Aug 98 12:50:26 +1000 Received: from auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au (auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au [192.168.2.15]) by huxch2z.gis.zurich.com.au with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3) id MAA14025 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:50:25 +1000 (EST) Received: by auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4A256658.000FA0B5 ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:50:41 +1000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ZURICH To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <4A256658.000F59EB.00@auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:50:22 +1000 Subject: Re: Add_fuel_inj Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just copy the files to the printer port. copy xxxxxxxx.xxx lpt1: This worked for me. From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 00:42:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24795 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:42:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24791 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:42:06 -0400 Received: from mg-20425420-6.ricochet.net (mg-20425420-6.ricochet.net [204.254.20.6]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA29498 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:42:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mg-20425420-6.ricochet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BDC0D3.48AEF560@mg-20425420-6.ricochet.net>; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:43:52 -0400 Message-ID: <01BDC0D3.48AEF560@mg-20425420-6.ricochet.net> From: Chris Conlon To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: two ignition ideas Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 00:38:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BDC0D3.48B69680" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC0D3.48B69680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Lawrence wrote: > Err, Ummm.... Ahhh. The few UV lasers I have worked with don't have > ... > So if you ignore that little problem the next thing you > find out is a UV Laser costs about the same as a new Honda Civic. I > suspect that is why nobody has tried your idea. D'oh!! Oh well. It doesn't really have to be a laser, but the few short- wave UV lamps I've worked with (a) were somewhat fragile, and (b) could not be turned on and off quickly. (Not more than a couple times anyway!) I was hoping it'd be possible to build something like a xenon flash lamp, but with discharge in the far UV range. But even so, most flash lamps don't seem to have a long life either. Guess I should put my bets on the simpler idea. ;) Chris ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC0D3.48B69680 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjQEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGEAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGVmaTMzMi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUAU01UUABkaXlfZWZpQGVm aTMzMi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUAAAAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACIA AABkaXlfZWZpQGVmaTMzMi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUAAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAkAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdScAAgELMAEAAAAnAAAA U01UUDpESVlfRUZJQEVGSTMzMi5FTkcuT0hJTy1TVEFURS5FRFUAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAC AfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADnkgBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90ZQAxCAEEgAEA FwAAAFJFOiB0d28gaWduaXRpb24gaWRlYXMA8gcBBYADAA4AAADOBwgABgAAACYALAAEADkBASCA AwAOAAAAzgcIAAYAAAAiADYABAA/AQEJgAEAIQAAAEQzMjcxMUM0QkYyQ0QyMTFBRjVGRUNCRDA0 QzEwMDAwADYHAQOQBgCcBAAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5 AOBxYhj0wL0BHgBwAAEAAAAXAAAAUkU6IHR3byBpZ25pdGlvbiBpZGVhcwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAA Ab3A9BhaxBEn1Cy/EdKvX+y9BMEAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABz eW5jaHJpc0ByaWNvY2hldC5uZXQAAAADAAYQDniKyQMABxArAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEksTEFX UkVOQ0VXUk9URTpFUlIsVU1NTUFISEhUSEVGRVdVVkxBU0VSU0lIQVZFV09SS0VEV0lUSERPTlRI QVZFU09JRllPVUlHTk9SRVRIQVRMSVRUTEVQUk9CTEVNVEhFTgAAAAACAQkQAQAAACADAAAcAwAA UwUAAExaRnXhdMB//wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER 4nN0ZW0CgzM3AuQHEwKDNARGEzMxIPcIVQeyAoB9CoAIzwnZAoAHCoENsQtgbmcxMDMvFFALChVh C/JjDeAgSGxpLAqHGpogG98bF0yEYXcYEG5jZSAe8LpvE9A6CoUKjxrMPh2eCxNQH4FjBUBFcnIs aCBVbSQQLiRBFLBoUySgJHBUaB9AZgfRVRxWIAtgEbARoCBJIG0RgHYfQQWwawmAH1Bp0HRoIGQC ICcFQCYyPx0/IZkkQSA1Ii8jNlNvMiAGkCB5CGAr8GdudwWwH0AnEGEFQCWQJwB0fmwfQCMxAmAT 4CzRH0Bu3GV4BUAnEAuAZywiJ+/7IZ8qz2YLgCbQCGAFQAQA3CBhJWIe0CXBIAWgE8DPMyEG4DLh LjJzYQeAMzBXMyIucAfgSAIgZDNAQ9BpdmljJHBJL18wb+Exf3N1c3AjcizjMxH4d2h5LmAt0ARw OwARgL0EIHQIgSbQLDEFwGkNsA5hKcY3Lx0XRCdvaBAhISBPJyB3ZWz+bDaBBUAnQAeQJ2IYEAdA 1mw7ciZRdCvgYjUhJZRNI+BiNIUlMnNoF7EtTSA1dyZCJXNtcCXxJ7EmXShhKT9xLLFzA3CnB9As 8gNQYWcDEGUj4DMAcCbQKGJF4AWgdWzeZCA1LJAFQEGBdAhwLnAXMrEDoEdybw3QIHF1zTZga0DQ JHAoTkjBBGB/LLRJoUfiC1AswQdzAHB58UPQeSEpH8wmEEPQBCBtQxBwLuInACcm0EGBcP80AACQ LeFBQ0pQSCBGQy7E9y1AJrAzMXgJ8EmRGZFDAL8gNURSQiQm9AQAEXJnH0C/C4BCdArBJXFG8BnA ZSRw+kIy4WUmUAOgRlAj4ARg/xPAUe8EICdEEbAuAivgJjP/QbECIFECJTBVwCcBBJApxv0gNUcK UAQRJhBDAUgRLaD9MuFtOwBBgDQhSZE0swdwM0wRPGUgO00tXwFDaL0FEHM83yLrIDUXMQBiIAMA EBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwQKsMj/PAvQFAAAgwQKsMj/PAvQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA AINN ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDC0D3.48B69680-- From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 03:14:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA26026 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 03:14:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fjellnett.fjellnett.no ([194.248.82.140]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA26022 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 03:14:55 -0400 Received: from HELGES_PC ([194.248.82.201]) by fjellnett.fjellnett.no (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 335 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:09:55 +0200 From: "Helge Hafting" Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 09:00:11 +0100 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: two ignition ideas X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.50 b48 Message-ID: <19980806070951984.AAA253.335@HELGES_PC> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In , on 08/05/98 at 05:38 PM, "Chris Conlon" said: >Hi eveyrone, >A couple of people (on my other lists) have mentioned various engines >with 2 plugs per cylinder. (Not even counting rotaries, diesels, etc.) >Apparently in some designs the second plug fires much later, and helps >reduce emissions significantly. This led me to a couple of weird ideas >for ignition systems. You don't need an extra plug if all you want is to fire twice. There are ignition systems that fire the same plug several times. Look at: for an example. 2 plugs in the same cylinder are usually fired simultaneously. This ignites the charge in two places making it burn faster. This gives more pressure while the piston still is at the top, making some more power. Using 2 plugs may also allow a somewhat higher compression without getting detonation. Firing several times in one cycle avoids misfiring problems and make sure everything is burned. This gives less emissions and slightly more power. The effect is most noticeable at low speed/idle. (There isn't much time for multiple firing at high rpm's anyway.) >First, take a basically stock ignition system, and build a small inverter >to supply 3kV-5kV at a few mA, and a HV capacitor of hopefully several >hundred mF. Using some HV diodes, wire this in parallel with the existing >ignition system. The idea is to have the main spark fire, and then have >the inverter/capacitor continue a lower-current, long duration spark >across the now-ionized gap. (You'd need one per cylinder, or some kind of >icky switch, etc etc.) Hopefully you'd get more complete combustion, >reliable ignition, maybe a bit lower emissions. >Has anyone tried this? The idea seems simple enough that I imagine it's >been tried and discarded for some reason or other. (No major benefits >over a well-done normal ignition, would be my guess.) Price is one thing - you are introducing a lot more components. And will it work at all? The "ionized path" may very well be blown away by combustion pressure stopping your low-current spark. >Second, something made me think that it would be clever/cool to use >short-wave UV light to ignite the charge. It generates ozone, after all, >which ought to ignite things nicely. I'm not sure how you'd make part of >the cylinder head transparent (a quartz glass plug?), or how you'd >generate the UV pulses reliably. (Some kind of solid state laser is >probably the only thing reliable enough that I can think of. Are there >long-life UV flashlamps?) A drawback or benefit is that the charge would >no longer be ignited from a single point, but rather a whole region would >be ignited. You could control this somewhat by altering how the light >shines through the port in the head. Would it be good or bad to have the >whole charge ignite at once? I guess igniting a region instead of a point will be like having several plugs - you'll get a faster burn and that is usually an advantage. I imagine igniting everything at once will be just like detonation - no good. You want a flame front that moves through the charge in a short time, but not zero time. One way of speeding it up is to start the fire in several places. Helge Hafting -- ----------------------------------------------------------- helge.hafting@daldata.no ----------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 03:19:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA26095 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 03:19:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from newmail.virgin.net (newmail.virgin.net [194.168.54.44]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA26088 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 03:19:27 -0400 Received: from virgin.net ([194.168.124.119]) by newmail.virgin.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5 release 217 ID# 0-52107U250000L250000S0V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:19:26 +0000 Message-ID: <35C83A20.EF29881C@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 11:55:29 +0100 From: Tony Cooper X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Program for Changing fuel mixture in a GMC C3 eprom References: <35C7C409.8E76F234@xxx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu TC wrote: > A source in Forth > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Name: Gmcpatch.zip > Gmcpatch.zip Type: Zip Compressed Data (application/x-zip-compressed) > Encoding: base64 Why the F*CK was this posted........... -- Sent By Tony Cooper. email: tony.cooper@virgin.net Allow at least 10 working minutes for reply. ;) From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 06:20:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA27563 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 06:20:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gull.dockside.co.za (gull.dockside.co.za [196.13.249.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA27559 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 06:20:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost) by gull.dockside.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with internal id MAB08730; 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Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:49:38 +0200 Received: from gateway.ccii.net (root@ccii.dockside.co.za [196.25.199.201]) by gull.dockside.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08659 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:19:56 +0200 (SAT) Received: from gull.dockside.co.za (gull.dockside.co.za [196.13.249.8]) by gateway.ccii.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10108 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:49:32 +0200 Received: from gateway.ccii.net (root@ccii.dockside.co.za [196.25.199.201]) by gull.dockside.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08653 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:19:50 +0200 (SAT) Received: from gull.dockside.co.za (gull.dockside.co.za [196.13.249.8]) by gateway.ccii.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10102 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:49:26 +0200 Received: from gateway.ccii.net (root@ccii.dockside.co.za [196.25.199.201]) by gull.dockside.co.za (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08643 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:19:44 +0200 (SAT) Received: from gull.dockside.co.za (gull.dockside.co.za [196.13.249.8]) by gateway.ccii.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA10097 for ; 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Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:48:33 +0200 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:48:33 +0200 Message-Id: <199808061048.MAA10074@gateway.ccii.net> sad asd sad sad --MAB08730.902398829/gull.dockside.co.za-- From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 08:56:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA28574 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:56:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA28567 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:56:06 -0400 Received: (from jpl@localhost) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA24939; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:56:12 GMT Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:56:12 +0000 (UTC) From: Jim Lill To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Bosch EZK Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm looking for a source of info on the Bosch EZK ignition ECU. Things like uP type, memory map, mods etc. TIA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jim Lill jpl@vectorbd.com http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl wa2zkd@wb2psi.#wny.usa.na From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 09:45:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA29169 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:45:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw02.execpc.com (mailgw02.execpc.com [169.207.3.78]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA29164 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:45:57 -0400 Received: from zurlo.execpc.com (kashyyyk-2-150.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.133.88]) by mailgw02.execpc.com (8.9.0) id IAA10796 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:45:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980806084946.007d99d0@mail.execpc.com> X-Sender: zurlo@mail.execpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 08:49:46 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Jim Zurlo Subject: Re: two ignition ideas In-Reply-To: <19980806070951984.AAA253.335@HELGES_PC> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It's been done before. Someone at GM ran a single cylinder CFR engine using laser ignition. I can't remember what type of laser was used, but you could check it out by getting SAE paper 780329. Jim Z. >>Second, something made me think that it would be clever/cool to use >>short-wave UV light to ignite the charge. It generates ozone, after all, >>which ought to ignite things nicely. I'm not sure how you'd make part of >>the cylinder head transparent (a quartz glass plug?), or how you'd >>generate the UV pulses reliably. (Some kind of solid state laser is >>probably the only thing reliable enough that I can think of. Are there >>long-life UV flashlamps?) A drawback or benefit is that the charge would >>no longer be ignited from a single point, but rather a whole region would >>be ignited. You could control this somewhat by altering how the light >>shines through the port in the head. Would it be good or bad to have the >>whole charge ignite at once? From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 15:44:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA00086 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:44:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.dlc.fi (elf.dlc.fi [195.218.64.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00082 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:44:32 -0400 Received: from default (i74p230.pp.dlc.fi [195.218.74.230]) by mail.dlc.fi (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA09406 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:44:27 +0300 (EET DST) From: "Joni" To: "DIY EFI" Subject: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:44:49 +0300 Message-ID: <01bdc172$ac191780$e64adac3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDC18B.D1664F80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDC18B.D1664F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello boys, We have a BIG problem with our race car. We can't get it running. We = don't get sparks. When we take four plugs (4 cyl Cosworth engine) out of = the engine and put them on top of the camshaft cover and start the = engine we can see sparks on all of the four plugs. But if put four = replacement plugs into engine, and leave the four originals on top of = the cam cover, and start the engine we can not see any sparks. ??????? = WHY ??????? The MP 1.7 uses two symmetrical sectors on the flywheel with inductive = crank sensor. Plus a hall sensor in the distributor (with only one = "window" on the rotating part). We have checked and double checked the = sensor synchronization, wires, connectors and the sensors themselves. = The sensor output looks OK on the oscilloscope. When we try to start the = engine the fuel pumps and start running and injectors firing.=20 We are out of the ideas. We have now tried to solve this problem for = almost four days. Any ideas are more than welcome as we should be racing = on Saturday. Please visit our teams web pages at: = http://www.bookmark.fi/cosworth/index.html Appreciate your help, Joni Mikkola ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDC18B.D1664F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello boys,
 
We have a BIG problem with our race = car. We=20 can't get it running. We don't get sparks. When we take four plugs (4 = cyl=20 Cosworth engine) out of the engine and put them on top of the camshaft = cover and=20 start the engine we can see sparks on all of the four plugs. But if put = four=20 replacement plugs into engine, and leave the four originals on top of = the cam=20 cover, and start the engine we can not see any sparks. ??????? WHY=20 ???????
 
The MP 1.7 uses two symmetrical = sectors on the=20 flywheel with inductive crank sensor. Plus a hall sensor in the = distributor=20 (with only one "window" on the rotating part). We have checked = and=20 double checked the sensor synchronization, = wires,=20 connectors and the sensors themselves. The sensor output looks OK on the = oscilloscope. When we try to start the engine the = fuel=20 pumps and start running and injectors firing.
 
We are out of the ideas. We have now = tried to=20 solve this problem for almost four days. Any ideas are more than welcome = as we=20 should be racing on Saturday.
 
Please visit our teams web pages at: = http://www.bookmark.f= i/cosworth/index.html
 
Appreciate your help,
 
Joni Mikkola
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BDC18B.D1664F80-- From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 17:17:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01085 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:17:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01081 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:17:20 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-26.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.44]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id RAA07994 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:17:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004601bdc180$0d3e4000$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:20:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01BDC15E.8530DAE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BDC15E.8530DAE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 From: Joni Subject: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 =20 =20 We have a BIG problem with our race car. We can't get it running. We = don't get sparks. When we take four plugs (4 cyl Cosworth engine) out of = the engine and put them on top of the camshaft cover and start the = engine we can see sparks on all of the four plugs. But if put four = replacement plugs into engine, and leave the four originals on top of = the cam cover, and start the engine we can not see any sparks. ??????? = WHY ??????? =20 Did you use some thread anti-sieze, and used too much?. Is the cylinder head grounded?. =20 =20 Give it a shoot of starting fluid, and see if it catchs. You sure = you don't have the coils paks crossed?. =20 Maybe a fuel problem, that is being mistaken for lack of spark. =20 Cam Timing?. Absolutely sure. =20 =20 =20 Cheers Bruce =20 Joni Mikkola ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BDC15E.8530DAE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

From: Joni <joni.mikkola@dlc.fi>
Sub= ject:=20 *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7

We have a BIG problem with our = race car. We=20 can't get it running. We don't get sparks. When we take four plugs = (4 cyl=20 Cosworth engine) out of the engine and put them on top of the = camshaft cover=20 and start the engine we can see sparks on all of the four plugs. But = if put=20 four replacement plugs into engine, and leave the four originals on = top of=20 the cam cover, and start the engine we can not see any sparks. = ??????? WHY=20 ???????
 
Did you use some thread anti-sieze, and used too = much?.
Is the cylinder head grounded?.
 
 
Give it a shoot of starting fluid, and see if it = catchs.  You sure you don't have the coils paks = crossed?.
 
Maybe a fuel problem, that is being mistaken for = lack of=20 spark.
 
Cam Timing?.  Absolutely sure.
 
 
 
Cheers
Bruce
 
Joni = Mikkola
------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BDC15E.8530DAE0-- From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 17:28:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01368 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:28:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzserv.kemet.com (dmzserv.kemet.com [206.74.114.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01361 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:28:03 -0400 Received: from smtpgw.kemet.com ([10.1.251.7]) by dmzserv.kemet.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 96 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:21:04 -0400 Received: by smtpgw.kemet.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 85256658.0075D7DB ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:27:09 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: KEMET From: "Mike Turner" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <85256658.0075D6DE.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:28:06 -0400 Subject: Re: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I concur with Bruce: it sounds like a ground problem if fuel is truly present and sparks appear on the covers. Ground the plug body and retry firing. Another trick is to use the inductive pickup to see if spark is present. No current, no circuit. From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 17:49:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01644 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:49:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ocfexch2.ocf (ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov [146.137.76.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01640 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:49:29 -0400 Received: by ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 16:52:18 -0500 Message-ID: <8B0E1273DCFFD111B35F0060083A3496011E6A@ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov> From: "Kurek, Larry" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 16:52:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id RAA01641 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sounds like you might have a voltage drop problem. When you crank the engine without the plugs in, it is under a light load and the starter doesn't pull a lot of current, so your battery voltage stays high. Once you slap the plugs in, the compression of the engine causes a greater voltage drop, and you are probably losing enough power to fire the plugs. Just a guess...but I have seen that before. TTYL! Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: Joni [SMTP:joni.mikkola@dlc.fi] > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 1998 2:45 PM > To: DIY EFI > Subject: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 > > Hello boys, >   > We have a BIG problem with our race car. We can't get it running. We > don't get sparks. When we take four plugs (4 cyl Cosworth engine) out > of the engine and put them on top of the camshaft cover and start the > engine we can see sparks on all of the four plugs. But if put four > replacement plugs into engine, and leave the four originals on top of > the cam cover, and start the engine we can not see any sparks. ??????? > WHY ??????? >   > The MP 1.7 uses two symmetrical sectors on the flywheel with inductive > crank sensor. Plus a hall sensor in the distributor (with only one > "window" on the rotating part). We have checked and double checked the > sensor synchronization, wires, connectors and the sensors themselves. > The sensor output looks OK on the oscilloscope. When we try to start > the engine the fuel pumps and start running and injectors firing. >   > We are out of the ideas. We have now tried to solve this problem for > almost four days. Any ideas are more than welcome as we should be > racing on Saturday. >   > Please visit our teams web pages at: > >   > Appreciate your help, >   > Joni Mikkola From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 19:04:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02628 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:04:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.ctelcom.net (root@one.ctelcom.net [209.12.126.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02623 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:04:40 -0400 Received: from default (dial33.ctelcom.net [209.12.126.182]) by one.ctelcom.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA17390 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:04:35 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980805215532.006b4c00@ctelcom.net> X-Sender: jboucher@ctelcom.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 21:55:32 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Joe Boucher Subject: Re: Pulll uups/downz In-Reply-To: <35C6E46A.D31EEFFF@bellsouth.net> References: <019f01bdbf65$e41622e0$48198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In my younger days I knew a friend of a friend called the Beast. It was because of his beast fits. One involved a hammer and the valve train on an engine he was trying to adjust the valves on. Another one involved a drill motor. It started with a complete drill and when the fit was over he was standing with the power cord in his hand and all that was left was the brushes and the trigger switch. Other than that, he was an okay guy. Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban At 06:37 AM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hey wait a minute....30 oz hammers are limited in their fine tuning ability, >they can get it only partially rite, like on carbs.....:-))) > >GENE > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> Only at CSH, HQ.. >> The bench problem I was having, turns out to have been a bad pot. >> 30 oz Ball Peen took care of the recalibration. >> Cheers >> Bruce The staff was just getting used to seeing LEDs flickering >> and not having the fire department show up to turn them >> off. > >-- > > > ____________ >Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ >Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ > /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ > /| /______\____/______\ |\ > (( | / | | \ | )) > Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | > Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| > Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | > |~==============================~| > |_____| |_____| >------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 19:26:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02790 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:26:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02786 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:26:27 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-26.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.44]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id TAA26883 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d801bdc192$172f3e40$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Bench ecms Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:29:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to the chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is just a couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having had sensor ground problems????.... For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share resistances. Tieing grounds together. For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the +5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. YES/NO??????.. Cheers Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up leds flashed and no problems today. The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 20:19:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03418 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:19:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mozart.bcit.bc.ca (aix4.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.164]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03414 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:19:02 -0400 Received: from pfenske (usr015.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.188.115]) by mozart.bcit.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA26514 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:18:14 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:18:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199808070018.RAA26514@mozart.bcit.bc.ca> X-Sender: ffnsp955@pophost.bcit.bc.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Bench ecms Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Dear Bruce You have to look at ground analysis. With no current draw from accessories engine starter ect eng ground is ecm ground. Turn something on and engine ground might measure -3volts which is evil in ecm terms. Also signal noise analysis. An improper ground would let noise into the ecm. Thus sensor ground shall always be used for sensors, O2 gnd fer O2, and power ground for power ground, as well as injector returns should go to back of engine block Have a gun one. :peter At 07:29 PM 8/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to the >chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is just a >couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. >With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. >While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to >chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having >had sensor ground problems????.... > > >For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share >resistances. Tieing grounds together. > >For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the >+5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. >YES/NO??????.. > >Cheers >Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up > leds flashed and no problems today. > The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, > but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. > > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 20:37:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03637 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:37:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03632 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:37:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA20364 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:37:18 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:37:18 -0700 (PDT) From: T Hergen To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Bench ecms In-Reply-To: <00d801bdc192$172f3e40$2c198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'd try tying the two ecms power supply grounds together at a single point (keep the ground wire between them short) and leave the sensor grounds unattached. Tying the grounds together at multiple points results in ground loops which may cause problems. If you do tie the grounds together in multiple places, make sure you like the resulting problems better than the ones your solving:) The couple tenths of an ohm in resistance should not make much difference since the sensors draw very little current (for the TPS pot: I=V/R=5v/5k=5ma). 5ma across 0.2 ohms isn't much. So, the sensor ground should be very close to the same potential as the ecm ground. Measure the voltage between the two ecm sensor grounds and the two sensor +5v supplies. Any significant difference means the two ecms may come up with different answers for the same sensor. Since you're driving LEDs, not high current loads like injectors, the ground potential of each ecm should stay close. This is a good thing since it's then more likely that both ecms will come up with the same answer for sensor voltage measurements. That's my opinion. There are other ways of doing it. Tom On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to the > chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is just a > couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. > With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. > While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to > chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having > had sensor ground problems????.... > > > For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share > resistances. Tieing grounds together. > > For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the > +5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. > YES/NO??????.. > > Cheers > Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up > leds flashed and no problems today. > The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, > but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. > From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 20:38:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03682 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:38:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from Au.oro.net (root@Au.oro.net [198.68.62.48]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03674 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:38:36 -0400 Received: from gv1-249.oro.net (gv1-249.oro.net [209.77.96.249]) by Au.oro.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA27216 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:38:29 -0700 Message-ID: <35CA4C11.65C9@oro.net> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:37:17 -0700 From: Vogt Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Electromotive v Haltech v Accel v Home Brew Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, it's me again...I am still looking to add a good FI system to a turbo 429 that is in the works. I would like some impartial opinions on the different type of controllers available. One thing I noticed on the E-motive is that it has the capability to electrically control the wastegate. This seems to be a good idea because I could have it fail-safe open and could also leave it open for normal driving to bypass the flow restrciction of the turbine. I would also like to have it driveable enough that my grandmother could be comfortable in it, and fuel efficient (as fuel efficient as a 429 can be) during normal driving. This is where I think the home brew system may fall short but I don't know much about it. Also, do any of these have adaptive learn or am I just asking way too much of an aftermarket system? Thanks, Birken From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 21:21:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04371 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:21:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [206.180.156.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04364 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:21:07 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-12.brokersys.com [206.180.156.13]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA05124 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:25:20 -0500 Message-ID: <35CA5894.9771ECE8@brokersys.com> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 20:29:56 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 References: <01bdc172$ac191780$e64adac3@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu One of your hall sensors might be set too far away. It could be generating enough signal when the motor is cranking fast (no plugs), but falling just short when cranking speed is lower. Try moving one or the other closer. Also, I second the low battery voltage suggestion. Walter > Joni wrote: > > Hello boys, > > We have a BIG problem with our race car. We can't get it running. We > don't get sparks. When we take four plugs (4 cyl Cosworth engine) out of > the engine and put them on top of the camshaft cover and start the engine > we can see sparks on all of the four plugs. But if put four replacement > plugs into engine, and leave the four originals on top of the cam cover, > and start the engine we can not see any sparks. ??????? WHY ??????? > ... From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 21:48:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04830 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:48:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pmi-1.promobility.net (pmi.promobility.net [207.219.14.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04821 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:48:03 -0400 Received: from promobility.net (ip17.ottawa2.dialup.canada.psi.net [154.11.115.17]) by pmi-1.promobility.net (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 9-31337L) with ESMTP id AAA478 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:50:07 -0400 Message-ID: <35CA5DE7.40DBBC36@promobility.net> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 21:52:39 -0400 From: Lawrence King Organization: Eh? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Bench ecms References: <00d801bdc192$172f3e40$2c198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi: Ideally for any measurement system there is just one point which is defined to be ground. All sensors should have seperate wires which lead from this single point (called the star ground). The star ground should be really close to the ECM (in fact it would be even better if the star ground was inside the ECM). The same applies to the +5V. Do not share powers and grounds between sensors. Do not use the frame as a return path. The frame may have only 0.010 ohms resistance, but when you crank the starter it draws hundreds of amps. V=IR in this case R=0.010 and I=100, hence the voltage drop (V) across the frame is 1 volt, this is a very significant voltage to your sensors (ie 20% error). Go to the effort of sopplying seperate pairs (or triples) of wires to each sensor, it will save you a lot of grief. -Lawrence- Bruce Plecan wrote: > > I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to the > chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is just a > couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. > With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. > While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to > chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having > had sensor ground problems????.... > > For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share > resistances. Tieing grounds together. > > For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the > +5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. > YES/NO??????.. > > Cheers > Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up > leds flashed and no problems today. > The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, > but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. -- Lawrence King lawrence@promobility.net Ottawa Ontario Canada 70 Buick Wildcat, 71 Lotus Elan, 92 Nissan NX2000 I am a three car family (four if you count the Buick as two cars) From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 21:54:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04994 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:54:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04990 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:54:23 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-26.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.44]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id VAA01974 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00bc01bdc1a6$c053ef20$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Bench ecms Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:57:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: peter paul fenske To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Bench ecms Geez, makes perfect sense. Thanks Bruce >Dear Bruce > >You have to look at ground analysis. >With no current draw from accessories engine starter ect >eng ground is ecm ground. >Turn something on and engine ground might measure -3volts >which is evil in ecm terms. > >Also signal noise analysis. >An improper ground would let noise into the ecm. > >Thus sensor ground shall always be used for sensors, O2 gnd fer >O2, and power ground for power ground, as well as injector returns >should go to back of engine block > >Have a gun one. > >:peter > >At 07:29 PM 8/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >>I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to the >>chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is just a >>couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. >>With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. >>While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to >>chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having >>had sensor ground problems????.... >> >> >>For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share >>resistances. Tieing grounds together. >> >>For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the >>+5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. >>YES/NO??????.. >> >>Cheers >>Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up >> leds flashed and no problems today. >> The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, >> but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. >> >> >> > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 22:00:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA05188 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:00:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au (firewall-user@auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au [202.20.70.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA05181 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:00:42 -0400 From: Wayne.MacDonald@zurich.com.au Received: by auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au; id MAA26498; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:00:18 +1000 (EST) Received: from huxch2z.zurich.com.au(192.168.1.27) by auzurhuxch1z.zurich.com.au via smap (4.1) id xma026182; Fri, 7 Aug 98 11:59:37 +1000 Received: from auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au (auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au [192.168.2.15]) by huxch2z.gis.zurich.com.au with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAA24443 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:59:37 +1000 (EST) Received: by auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 4A256659.000AF686 ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:59:44 +1000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ZURICH To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <4A256659.000956E1.00@auznss01.gis.zurich.com.au> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:59:26 +1000 Subject: Re: *** URGENT *** Bosch Motronic MP 1.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It must be a voltage drop causing the lack of spark, I doubt that the voltage drop is causing the coils to not work, It is more likely that the ECU shuts down with the low voltage. Some people didn't read the post correctly judging by the replies. Wayne. From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 22:33:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA05710 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:33:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA05706 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:33:26 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA22538 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:33:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808070233.VAA22538@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny12-08.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.232) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022515; Thu Aug 6 21:32:31 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:54:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35C8EC33.31CBBB1B@home.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 19:35:15 -0400 > From: Victor Tomanov > Organization: @Home Network > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > The ECU that controls my system doesn't have a diagnostic capacity. I'm > at a loss at how to figure out if the ECU is running the motor correctly > and if the mixture is realy what it should be. It seems rich. I'm > looking for a way to modify the lean rich mixture variable either by > taping into one of the sensors or adding a pot to the ECU. Does anyone > have a working knowledge of this injecting system? > Thanks for any help. > 1.) check for vac. leaks. 2)Locate the airflow meter 3.) Look for a blue round cap plug, with 1/4" screw driver gently tap down on one side and pull out with needle nose. Take a 6mm allen wrench and turn screw out to lean. 3)Take a pair of large water pump pliers and pop the black cover off, (some beemer's the air box is upside down, so remove the 3 10mm mounting nuts loosen the hose clamps and turn it) Take a scribe and mark the position of the spring clip on plastic cogged wheel. Also note relative tension, in case spring flies loose. Use a 1/4" screw driver and turn cogged wheel to tighten the spring, to lean. It varies with cars, try increments of 10 clicks max. 4)Use a phillips screw driver and loosen the wiper arm. turn very slightly ccw to lean, on some cars if you go to for lean you will not activate the fuel pump during starting. 5)I have never tried puting a pot in the line. The lines you can try or air temp. water temp or aiflow 6)I have made a micro computer intercept box, which allows rich or lean adjustments, if you are intersested. alex From diy_efi-owner Thu Aug 6 23:02:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06050 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:02:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06046 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:02:50 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-26.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.44]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id XAA03793 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:02:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002101bdc1b0$4fbaf7e0$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: ALDLing Bench ecms Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:06:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If I'm running two ecms with 8192 ALDLs, would I be able to use a SPDT switch to flip from one to the other for the scanner, assuming I'd used a remote resistor for closing A-B, on each of the ecms. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 01:04:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA07268 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 01:04:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@smtp.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA07264 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 01:04:54 -0400 Received: from xu300 (tahoe-d42.foothill.net [209.76.43.42]) by ns1.foothill.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA21197 for ; Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "TBK" To: Subject: Re: ALDLing Bench ecms Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:01:35 -0700 Message-ID: <01bdc1c0$73d71900$2a2b4cd1@xu300> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It should work. It will just resync on the unit when you switch. However, you should be running the same or similar eproms or the order of the data may be different and Diacom will show things like Idle RPM of 6000. I think most P4's are spewing data all of the time. The answer is generally yes with a few potential gotcha's. TK -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 8:14 PM Subject: ALDLing Bench ecms >If I'm running two ecms with 8192 ALDLs, would I be able to use a >SPDT switch to flip from one to the other for the scanner, assuming >I'd used a remote resistor for closing A-B, on each of the ecms. >Cheers >Bruce > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 06:49:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA09373 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 06:49:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from espace.dcl.com (espace.dcl.com [198.145.94.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA09369 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 06:49:19 -0400 From: talltom@espace.dcl.com Received: by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) id 10931; Fri, 07 Aug 1998 03:49:16 PDT Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 03:49:13 PDT To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <009CA53E.CE9B86DE.10931@espace.dcl.com> Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #364 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howdy! I guess I got kicked off for awhile. It sure is refreshing to be back amongst you nut balls. BRUCE! Nice that you two are a real Hammer enthusiast too. I've been known to go after carburetors with 3 foot screwdrivers and 12# hammers. Sometimes if I think a particular rig is going to be obstininent I set a sledge hammer out on the ground in front of it to let it know who's going to win. So far I've never lost one yet. I call it disiplinary purposes, it's been known to change customers attitudes too. Do I maybe qualify for a hat yet????:-) Just for grins, has any other people around here bye chance figured out a good cheap way of coming up with a reasonable priced way of coming up with a non-centrifugal blower??? From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 07:17:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA09525 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:17:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA09520 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:17:13 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA02356 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:17:25 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:20:14 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Bosch EZK In-Reply-To: <01bdc1c0$73d71900$2a2b4cd1@xu300> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm looking for info on Bosch EZ200K ignition modules. uP type, ROM Maps etc. TIA -Jim From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 08:29:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:29:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA10339 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:29:38 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA02995 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:29:49 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:32:37 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Bosch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Those working with Bosch might find this page interesting: http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/bosch.html -Jim Lill http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 08:31:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA10397 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:31:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10392 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:31:14 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-129-13.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.129.13]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA25364 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:31:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CAF34F.B83F8DC9@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 08:30:07 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Bench ecms References: <00d801bdc192$172f3e40$2c198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am assuming you are a EE candidate at a minimun, so I shouldn't have to say anything more than that the engine block is the ground for all sensors, Not the body of the car....your starting sequence and the crazy currents through the battery circuit and etc. could/would drive the computer crazy....and the use of several grounds/+5volt wires is for the obvious ground/feed loop problems, if you consider the various possibilities of inductive feedback from other hi-current wires...you can get my drift.....at any rate, wire it like it says in the wiring diagrams from your local GM dealer's copy machine....they been very good to me, when asked nicely.....GENE Bruce Plecan wrote: > > I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to the > chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is just a > couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. > With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. > While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to > chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having > had sensor ground problems????.... > > For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share > resistances. Tieing grounds together. > > For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the > +5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. > YES/NO??????.. > > Cheers > Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up > leds flashed and no problems today. > The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, > but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 10:12:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11537 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:12:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzserv.kemet.com (dmzserv.kemet.com [206.74.114.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11532 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:12:27 -0400 Received: from smtpgw.kemet.com ([10.1.251.7]) by dmzserv.kemet.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 142 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:05:16 -0400 Received: by smtpgw.kemet.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 85256659.004DF8E0 ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:11:39 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: KEMET From: "Mike Turner" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <85256659.004DF77B.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:13:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Pulll uups/downz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sounds like a classic case of (Bob) Widlerizing. Joe Boucher on 08/05/98 10:55:32 PM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: (bcc: Mike Turner/ENGR/HQ/KEMET/US) Subject: Re: Pulll uups/downz In my younger days I knew a friend of a friend called the Beast. It was because of his beast fits. One involved a hammer and the valve train on an engine he was trying to adjust the valves on. Another one involved a drill motor. It started with a complete drill and when the fit was over he was standing with the power cord in his hand and all that was left was the brushes and the trigger switch. Other than that, he was an okay guy. Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban At 06:37 AM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hey wait a minute....30 oz hammers are limited in their fine tuning ability, >they can get it only partially rite, like on carbs.....:-))) > >GENE > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> Only at CSH, HQ.. >> The bench problem I was having, turns out to have been a bad pot. >> 30 oz Ball Peen took care of the recalibration. >> Cheers >> Bruce The staff was just getting used to seeing LEDs flickering >> and not having the fire department show up to turn them >> off. > >-- > > > ____________ >Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ >Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ > /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ > /| /______\____/______\ |\ > (( | / | | \ | )) > Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | > Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| > Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | > |~==============================~| > |_____| |_____| >------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 10:30:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11726 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:30:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11721 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:30:07 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-6.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.75]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id KAA28084 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009301bdc210$52d073a0$4b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Bench ecms Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:33:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: mrvette To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Bench ecms >I am assuming you are a EE candidate at a minimun Nope, total EE education is radio shack, and reading Forret Mimms. As of late reading some other stuff. , so I shouldn't have to say >anything more than that the engine block is the ground for all sensors, Not the >body of the car....your starting sequence and the crazy currents through the >battery circuit and etc. could/would drive the computer crazy....and the use of >several grounds/+5volt wires is for the obvious ground/feed loop problems, if >you consider the various possibilities of inductive feedback from other >hi-current wires...you can get my drift.....at any rate, wire it like it says in >the wiring diagrams from your local GM dealer's copy machine....they been very >good to me, when asked nicely.....GENE >From your post the other day, (I think it was you), I thought you were saying just divide them up, and tie them to the intake. I've been a follower of how the manual says to do it. Cheers Bruce > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to the >> chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is just a >> couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. >> With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. >> While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to >> chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having >> had sensor ground problems????.... >> >> For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share >> resistances. Tieing grounds together. >> >> For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the >> +5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. >> YES/NO??????.. >> >> Cheers >> Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up >> leds flashed and no problems today. >> The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, >> but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. > >-- > > > ____________ >Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ >Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ > /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ > /| /______\____/______\ |\ > (( | / | | \ | )) > Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | > Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| > Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | > |~==============================~| > |_____| |_____| >------------------------------------------------------------------- > From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 10:40:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA11910 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:40:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA11901 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:40:50 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-109.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.109]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id HAA22838 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35CB1291.6E73@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 07:43:29 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Pulll uups/downz References: <85256659.004DF77B.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ok, I'll bite. I know who Bob Widler is, but the reference escapes me. Regards Mike Turner wrote: > > Sounds like a classic case of (Bob) Widlerizing. From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 11:48:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13267 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:48:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13263 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:48:43 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-128-34.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.128.34]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06627 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:48:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CB2197.A5EF74C8@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 11:47:35 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Bench ecms References: <009301bdc210$52d073a0$4b198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What I am trying to say, is do it the factory wiring way....reguardless of the wiring position in the car....they did it a certain way for ground loop reasons, and stray currents (starting etc) I'd hate to second guess another mans cost driven design, especially one that is proven to work.....:-))) GENE Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: mrvette > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 9:12 AM > Subject: Re: Bench ecms > > >I am assuming you are a EE candidate at a minimun > > Nope, total EE education is radio shack, and reading Forret Mimms. > As of late reading some other stuff. > > , so I shouldn't have to say > >anything more than that the engine block is the ground for all sensors, > Not the > >body of the car....your starting sequence and the crazy currents through > the > >battery circuit and etc. could/would drive the computer crazy....and the > use of > >several grounds/+5volt wires is for the obvious ground/feed loop problems, > if > >you consider the various possibilities of inductive feedback from other > >hi-current wires...you can get my drift.....at any rate, wire it like it > says in > >the wiring diagrams from your local GM dealer's copy machine....they been > very > >good to me, when asked nicely.....GENE > > >From your post the other day, (I think it was you), I thought you were > saying just divide them up, and tie them to the intake. I've been a > follower of how the manual says to do it. > Cheers > Bruce > > > >Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> > >> I had been told the sensor grounds on a gm ecm floated in reference to > the > >> chassis ground, well that doesn't appear to be correct, everything is > just a > >> couple tenths of an ohm from true ground. > >> With no displayed voltage drops across grounds. > >> While still seperated, does it really matter if sensor grounds go to > >> chassis, on an actual car?. If so then where Have I strayed to having > >> had sensor ground problems????.... > >> > >> For coolant temp, and intake air temps, I was just going to share > >> resistances. Tieing grounds together. > >> > >> For TPS, and MAP I was going to tie the grounds together, use the > >> +5 from one ecm, and then share the sensor's output. > >> YES/NO??????.. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Bruce RPM signals applied to both ecms, and powered up > >> leds flashed and no problems today. > >> The cat has grown boarded with the flashing LEDs, > >> but the staff is acting like their inna stupor. > > > >-- > > > > > > ____________ > >Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ > >Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ > > /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ > > /| /______\____/______\ |\ > > (( | / | | \ | )) > > Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | > > Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| > > Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | > > |~==============================~| > > |_____| |_____| > >------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 11:54:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13350 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:54:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzserv.kemet.com (dmzserv.kemet.com [206.74.114.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13346 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:54:15 -0400 Received: from smtpgw.kemet.com ([10.1.251.7]) by dmzserv.kemet.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 410 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:47:15 -0400 Received: by smtpgw.kemet.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 85256659.00574C4A ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:53:31 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: KEMET From: "Mike Turner" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <85256659.005749A2.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:54:51 -0400 Subject: Widlerizing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bob Pease in a recent issue of Electronic Design relates the Widlerizing much better than I can but the gist was that Bob would take a failed component that had caused him unusual grief to a vise, place the offending component on the anvil part, and proceed to reduce it to very very very small fragments using the proverbial pi pound hammer. This provided him both some sense of retribution and assurance that that particular component could never appear again to plague his designs. I will admit that this has worked for me personally and that failure to Widlerize or throw away a bad part almost guarantees its resurrection at some inopportune future date. Unfortunately, universal application of Widlerizing to all offending components in my universe seems to be frowned upon by the authorities. From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 13:49:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA15164 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:49:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.64.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA15160 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 13:49:12 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p40.scotland.net [148.176.232.40]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01616 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:48:27 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35CB3ECB.90A9EDEF@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 18:52:11 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Widlerizing References: <85256659.005749A2.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I recently had a case in reverse, I built a 2 rail voltage regulator and negative supply generator, it worked fine when I tested it on battery but when I connected to a mains adapter I forgot to allow for the peak ripple --- the 7660 negative supply generator chip literally blew up ! with one hell of a crack. Mike Turner wrote: > Bob Pease in a recent issue of Electronic Design relates the Widlerizing > much better than I can but the gist was that Bob would take a failed > component that had caused him unusual grief to a vise, place the offending > component on the anvil part, and proceed to reduce it to very very very > small fragments using the proverbial pi pound hammer. This provided him > both some sense of retribution and assurance that that particular component > could never appear again to plague his designs. I will admit that this has > worked for me personally and that failure to Widlerize or throw away a bad > part almost guarantees its resurrection at some inopportune future date. > Unfortunately, universal application of Widlerizing to all offending > components in my universe seems to be frowned upon by the authorities. From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 22:01:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18877 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 22:01:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [206.180.156.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18873 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 22:01:09 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (ernie-41.brokersys.com [206.180.156.42]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19021 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 21:05:18 -0500 Message-ID: <35CBB344.742C699C@brokersys.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 21:09:08 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Have I damaged my GM map sensor? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ok, so after trying to sound like the voice of experience responding to some of Bruce's questions what do I do? I bought a GM map sensor and hooked it up to 12 volts! I was trying to get output voltage vs vac input hoping to use it in my Jag ecms. It took about 2 secs to notice the output reading over 8volts and figure out why. I hooked it to 5v and was able to get a nice linear response. Can I trust this or should I get a new one? Walter From diy_efi-owner Fri Aug 7 22:32:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19136 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 22:32:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.sltic.com (www.sltic.com [207.51.206.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA19132 for ; Fri, 7 Aug 1998 22:31:56 -0400 Received: from execpc.com [207.51.206.71] by mail.sltic.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.02) id AA4514220142; Fri, 07 Aug 1998 21:39:01 CST6CDT Message-ID: <35CBBB49.DBB921EF@execpc.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 21:43:21 -0500 From: "Chad Clendening," X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Have I damaged my GM map sensor? References: <35CBB344.742C699C@brokersys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I did the same thing when connecting a engine to a ECM. I had a GM 1 bar sensor. I connected the +5 volt wire to +12. I didn't know it till the engine didn't run well with a load. The sensor worked fine after this ... for a few days. Then it shorted +5v to the output. The mistake did, however fry the ECM to PC cable instantly. Chad From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 11:52:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA23125 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:52:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA23121 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:52:08 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.58]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id LAA05194 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b701bdc2e4$f618e2c0$3a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Motorola Phone Number Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:55:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu After countless tries this worked for me to get a "pink book". It's part of a forward. Cheers Bruce It's proper "name" is M68HC11 Reference Manual, and its number is M68HC11RM/AD. Mine is revision 3, but there may be a later one available. In lieu of that, here is a toll-free number for the Literature Distribution Department at Motor Roller: 1-800-441-2447 (303-675-2140 non-toll free) I gave'em a "business name", but I'm not entirely sure that's necessary. Took less'en a week to get it to me too. From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 13:01:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23770 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:01:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from weck.brokersys.com (root@weck.brokersys.com [206.180.156.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23766 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:01:55 -0400 Received: from brokersys.com (bert-40.brokersys.com [206.180.156.104]) by weck.brokersys.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA04571 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:06:05 -0500 Message-ID: <35CC8657.FB94B1ED@brokersys.com> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 12:09:43 -0500 From: Walter Petermann X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system References: Conversation <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> with last message <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> <35C8EC33.31CBBB1B@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Victor, does the system have a working O2 sensor? Walter Victor Tomanov wrote: > > The ECU that controls my system doesn't have a diagnostic capacity. I'm > at a loss at how to figure out if the ECU is running the motor correctly > and if the mixture is realy what it should be. It seems rich. I'm > looking for a way to modify the lean rich mixture variable either by > taping into one of the sensors or adding a pot to the ECU. Does anyone > have a working knowledge of this injecting system? > Thanks for any help. From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 14:19:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24336 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:19:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA24331 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:19:37 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA12473 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:19:49 -0400 Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:22:36 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system In-Reply-To: <35CC8657.FB94B1ED@brokersys.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a Bosch page that might help... http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/bosch.html From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 14:45:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24604 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:45:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from admin.inetport.com (inetport.com [204.96.100.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24600 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 14:45:27 -0400 Received: from default (as01-35.inetport.com [204.96.100.115]) by admin.inetport.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA08811 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:45:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808081845.NAA08811@admin.inetport.com> From: "Zack" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:53:04 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Motorola Phone Number Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00b701bdc2e4$f618e2c0$3a198fd1@nacelp> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry for the digression, but does anybody else find Motorola's web site INCREDIBLY annoying and useless?? The vast majority of their spec sheets do not appear to be in any downloadable form whatsoever, and can only be obtained via their "fax on demand" system or as paper literature. I really amazes me that they would rather spend money supporting the latter two rather than put all their stuff in the form of PDF's so people could obtain them via download at a cost to them of... I would think, pennies on the dollar. I guess I just wish everyone had a web site as useful and rationally organized as National Semiconductor's! > From: "Bruce Plecan" > To: > Subject: Motorola Phone Number > Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 11:55:25 -0400 > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > After countless tries this worked for me to get a "pink book". > > > It's part of a forward. > Cheers > Bruce > > > It's proper "name" is M68HC11 Reference Manual, and its number is > M68HC11RM/AD. Mine is revision 3, but there may be a later one available. > > In lieu of that, here is a toll-free number for the Literature Distribution > Department at Motor Roller: > > 1-800-441-2447 (303-675-2140 non-toll free) > > I gave'em a "business name", but I'm not entirely sure that's necessary. > Took less'en a week to get it to me too. > > > ************** To every difficult question there is a simple, easy to explain wrong answer. From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 15:57:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25345 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:57:09 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.64.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25340 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 15:57:04 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p37.scotland.net [148.176.232.37]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23542 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:56:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35CC82C2.B10E949F@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 17:54:26 +0100 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: In a state of Euphoria Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have just started to use the shareware Euphoria language for grabing data from my data logger via the parrallel port, I am very impressed it is very very fast for a high level language and has good library rountines written by users for grabing, clearing and setting both bytes and individual bits. Running as either a compiled or interpreted language Euphoria exists in both DOS and Win32 forms and the support from other users is very good. For more info and download the web site is http://members.aol.com/FilesEu/ From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 18:13:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA26190 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 18:13:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA26186 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 18:13:39 -0400 Received: from kennethb (host-209-214-60-42.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.42]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01905 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 18:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980808181426.006a1f80@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: iflyrc@mail.lig.bellsouth.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Demo Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 18:14:26 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Kenneth Bailey Subject: [rx-7] ECU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry guys, I'm not to sure how you set the subject in this group. If I have done it incorrectly please show me the way :) Ok, I want to reprogram the 86 RX-7 ECU for power and so fourth. Can you please help me or point me to some one who can. Please don't sent me to a 3-400.00 some body else sell's the chip. I'm cheap and want to DIM ... Ken 86 Candy Apple Red From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 20:16:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA26953 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:16:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA26949 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:16:22 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA13433 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 19:16:19 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nbw-nj10-51.ix.netcom.com(207.94.119.115) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013429; Sat Aug 8 19:16:08 1998 Message-ID: <35CCEA23.636@ix.netcom.com> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 20:15:31 -0400 From: Ed X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Need help with Mallory Unilite distributor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone have the wiring diagram for a Mallory Unilite distributor? The harness has 3 wires: brown, green, red...I _think_ it was brown, got kinda dark when I was looking underhood. BTW it's a mech-advance unit for a Pontiac motor. -Ed From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 21:09:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA27353 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:09:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vixa.voyager.net ([209.153.128.118]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27349 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:09:56 -0400 Received: from voyager.net (lnngmi174199.voyager.net [209.153.174.199]) by vixa.voyager.net (MedianEnterprisesODBC-1.0/1.0) with ESMTP id VAA03851 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:09:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CCF72E.3DEEC61F@voyager.net> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 21:11:10 -0400 From: Daniel & Laura Burk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: I'm unsubscribing References: <199807160530.BAA29309@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There's too much flaming on this list. I'm gone. --- Cheers, Dan -- Daniel & Laura email: ws6transam@voyager.net Burk Web site: http://www.isthq.com/~dan Haslett,MI Car stuff: http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html Dan's current interests: '84 Pontiac Trans Am L69/WS6 (The sun car) '89 Honda VTR 250 Interceptor(Commuter bike) The ultimate garage (Due some time in the fall?) Baby girl! Julia Burk: Born on the 25th of June. See the home page- From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 21:13:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA27398 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:13:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27393 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:13:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (chickens@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/piglet.mc-1.4) with SMTP id UAA10975 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:13:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:13:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Jake Sternberg X-Sender: chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #365 In-Reply-To: <199808080900.FAA21200@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Just for grins, has any other people around here bye chance figured > out a good cheap way of coming up with a reasonable priced way of > coming up with a non-centrifugal blower??? take a turbo from a mack truck (they give them away at some truck repair shops and junkyards) which is toasted.. or good. sometimes the only problem is the exhaust housing is cracked, which is OK. remove the exhaust housing and cut the exhaust turbine down into a cylinder shape of a small diameter using a die grinder and bench grinder; but dont grind all the way into the "hub" just cut away all the fins, leaving a smooth surface where the fins protruded (the turbine is iron). using quality bearings like those found in a skateboard (or those found in a skateboard) support the nub on its end. you'll have to build a stout bracket for this. basically, you want to make the exhaust side of the turbo look like the business end of an OEM starter, that is with the "gear" supported from both ends. using a drill (to spin the impeller) and a die grinder and steady hand (to cut grooves) cut grooves into the turbine nub to match serpentine belts. not the toothed kind mind you, the multi-V groove used to drive accessories. these are flat on one side and have grooves running the length of the belt on the other. mount the assembly on your engine and connect a belt to it. carry spares. -jake From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 21:15:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA27433 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:15:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA27429 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:15:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (chickens@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/piglet.mc-1.4) with SMTP id UAA11315 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:15:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 20:15:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Jake Sternberg X-Sender: chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: centrigufal blower In-Reply-To: <199808080900.FAA21200@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu oops that was a centifugal blower. you wanted a non centrifugal blower. okay, take apart 144 oil pumps from PRV V6 engines... From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 22:36:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA28357 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:36:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA28353 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:36:05 -0400 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7JTWa04141 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:35:29 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <89a507d9.35cd0af2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:35:29 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Need help with Mallory Unilite distributor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 49 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Folks I'm back, Red goes to coil + Green to coil - brown to ground after starting it check to see that coil + shows 7-9 volts if it's higher you will need a ballast resistor. The voltage can be higher with a stock gm coil, most aftermarket coils are wound different and let too much current through to the - side of coil and smokes the unilite module, thus the need for a ballast resistor.....the red wire can actually handle the 12-14 volts but it is the green/trigger wire that has to be controlled. Again the ballast goes on the coil + wire between your ign switch and coil +......hope that helps -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 23:19:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28647 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:19:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28641 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:18:59 -0400 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7ILQa20768 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:18:12 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:18:12 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: I'm unsubscribing Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 8/8/98 9:24:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ws6transam@voyager.net writes: > There's too much flaming on this list. > I'm gone. Hey! wait! Before you go, you gonna be need'n that Nomex suit? Mike V smores anyone? From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 23:27:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28750 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:27:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28746 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:27:28 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA32413 for mail_from ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:18:54 -0600 Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:18:54 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Re: non-centrifugal blowers 1. Try the original source for the original hot-rodders: All Detroit Diesel 2 cycle engines use a Roots type blower. Size varies with the sixe and number of cylinders in the particular engine. E.G.: 3-53 up to 16-92 (or larger). The first number us the number of cylinders, the second is the CID per cylinder. Used Jimmy diesels are as common as belly buttons in the right graveyards. 2. Try used air compressor (dry-type, screw-type) air ends. 3. For new, try talking to Kobelco compressors in IN about a dry, screw type compressor. 4. Blower Drive Service catalogue will give you an idea as to the displacement per revolution of various Jimmy blowers. From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 23:28:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28777 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:28:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28765 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:28:33 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp32.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.162]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA23357 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 22:28:01 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35CCEB7E.88F4EE7@mwt.net> Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 19:21:19 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Need help with Mallory Unilite distributor References: <89a507d9.35cd0af2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Carl Nice to see you back with the group. Steve EFISYSTEMS@aol.com wrote: > Hi Folks I'm back, > Red goes to coil + Green to coil - brown to ground > after starting it check to see that coil + shows 7-9 volts if it's higher you > will need a ballast resistor. The voltage can be higher with a stock gm coil, > most aftermarket coils are wound different and let too much current through to > the - side of coil and smokes the unilite module, thus the need for a ballast > resistor.....the red wire can actually handle the 12-14 volts but it is the > green/trigger wire that has to be controlled. Again the ballast goes on the > coil + wire between your ign switch and coil +......hope that helps > -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Sat Aug 8 23:44:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29112 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:44:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29108 for ; Sat, 8 Aug 1998 23:43:57 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.61]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980809034326.CWHG17774@malinda> for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 03:43:26 +0000 Message-ID: <35CE6EBA.DC93F2BA@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 23:53:30 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: BMW M3 Chip X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just by any chance does anyone know what kind of chip the newer BMW M3's Use? For example the GM 747 uses a 2732A EPROM I need to know what the M3 uses? Thanks Jason -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 00:56:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA29772 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:56:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oznet15.ozemail.com.au (oznet15.ozemail.com.au [203.2.192.121]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA29768 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:56:38 -0400 Received: from amexon (slnew6p07.ozemail.com.au [203.108.150.87]) by oznet15.ozemail.com.au (8.9.0/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA08419 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:56:36 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199808090456.OAA08419@oznet15.ozemail.com.au> From: "Tony" To: Subject: Ford EEC IV Computers Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:44:27 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know if all EEC IV computers as fitted to Ford vehicles are the same (interchangeable)? Do they all have the same part number? Do they have different part numbers for different vehicles? I believe mine might be faulty and as my model of vehicle (1986 5.0 litre F150) is uncommon in Australia, I would like to know whether or not I can just take one from another Ford that uses an EEC IV. Thanks in advance, Tony From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 02:53:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA30799 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 02:53:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA30795 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 02:53:21 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm2-093.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.93]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA06220 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 00:55:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35CD480A.D9DC8EB0@mcn.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 00:56:10 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: programming 101 and checksum Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Memory location 0x004 is listed as the checksum enable for 7747 ecm. This value is $42 in my factory files. Does anyone know what the value is to disable checksum? Also, this location in 8747 ecm contains the value $4F. Is it safe to assume this is checksum enable for this ecm? Thanks Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 05:48:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA31857 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 05:48:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA31850 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 05:48:15 -0400 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15723 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:49:57 +1000 Received: from gou-ppp-071.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.71), claiming to be "jalbury" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda15711; Sun Aug 9 19:49:49 1998 Message-ID: <35CD71D8.3092@tpgi.com.au> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 19:54:32 +1000 From: Justin Albury Organization: VK2HJA X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: Subaru Dizzy ..????? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all Has anyone had any experence with Subaru AE92 Turbo Dizzy's Ive wired up the whole system (using an autronics system) ok problem is: with the dizzy in and cranking over I get the 4x trigger and no 1x (TDC) trigger.....now the funny thing is that it i pull the dizzy out and spin it around by hand it all works fine.....even with a earth strap hooked up in the same location ......now explain that????? any thoughts??? Juz! From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 06:58:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA32281 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 06:58:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA32275 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 06:57:41 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-3.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.72]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id GAA01075 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 06:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002301bdc385$00a4a9e0$48198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:01:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 3:13 AM Subject: programming 101 and checksum >Memory location 0x004 is listed as the checksum enable for >7747 ecm. This value is $42 in my factory files. Does >anyone know what the value is to disable checksum? AA Also, >this location in 8747 ecm contains the value $4F. Is it >safe to assume this is checksum enable for this ecm? I don't know, could try a chip with AA entry and see Bruce >Thanks > >Shannen > From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 08:41:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00103 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 08:41:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA00099 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 08:41:15 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA18064 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 08:41:28 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 08:44:17 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: BMW M3 Chip In-Reply-To: <35CE6EBA.DC93F2BA@worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Jason Weir wrote: > Just by any chance does anyone know what kind of chip the newer BMW M3's > Use? For example the GM 747 uses a 2732A EPROM I need to know what the > M3 uses? Thanks Jason > I believe it might be a 28F200 (big huh?).... you might want to look at: http://www.allcarracing.com/eng/kit03.htm From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 11:22:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00983 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:22:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00978 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:22:12 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA22825 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:21:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808091521.KAA22825@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Received: from dt043nba.midsouth.rr.com(24.92.90.186) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022817; Sun Aug 9 10:21:21 1998 X-Sender: dewhisna@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 10:21:34 -0500 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Donald Whisnant Subject: Re: Motorola Phone Number In-Reply-To: <199808090900.FAA31595@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >From: "Zack" >Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:53:04 -0600 >Subject: Re: Motorola Phone Number > >Sorry for the digression, but does anybody else find Motorola's web >site INCREDIBLY annoying and useless?? The vast majority of their >spec sheets do not appear to be in any downloadable form whatsoever, >and can only be obtained via their "fax on demand" system or as paper >literature. I really amazes me that they would rather spend money >supporting the latter two rather than put all their stuff in the form >of PDF's so people could obtain them via download at a cost to them >of... I would think, pennies on the dollar. > I guess I just wish everyone had a web site as useful and >rationally organized as National Semiconductor's! > > Yes it is incredibly annoying and almost impossible to find anything... There are actually a lot more PDF files on there than it leads you to believe there are... In fact the entire M68HC11 Reference Manual (M68HC11RM/AD) aka "pink book" is on there as a PDF... And so are the series specific books like the "e-series", "n-series", etc of the HC11... ... Don't ask me what the URL is, the last several times I've been back on there looking for HC11 info I couldn't find it again... But keep looking, because they are on there... You almost have to click on every html link on the site to find anything... Good luck... Donald Whisnant dewhisna@ix.netcom.com From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 12:36:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01758 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:36:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (mta@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA01754 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:36:31 -0400 Received: from home.com (cr875931-a.wlfdle1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.78.41]) by mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA1421 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:36:23 -0700 Message-ID: <35CDCE9D.333B7368@home.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 12:30:21 -0400 From: Victor Tomanov Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-AtHome0402 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system References: Conversation <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> with last message <85256657.00650264.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> <35C8EC33.31CBBB1B@home.com> <35CC8657.FB94B1ED@brokersys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I haven't found any specs on the sensor to test it. This is a Toyota Supra. How would you test it with an ohm meter at hot and cold temp? Walter Petermann wrote: > > Hi Victor, > does the system have a working O2 sensor? > > Walter > > Victor Tomanov wrote: > > > > The ECU that controls my system doesn't have a diagnostic capacity. I'm > > at a loss at how to figure out if the ECU is running the motor correctly > > and if the mixture is realy what it should be. It seems rich. I'm > > looking for a way to modify the lean rich mixture variable either by > > taping into one of the sensors or adding a pot to the ECU. Does anyone > > have a working knowledge of this injecting system? > > Thanks for any help. From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 13:00:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA01972 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:00:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01967 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:00:50 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.3] (p3.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.3]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA12856 for mail_from ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:52:06 -0600 Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:52:06 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Subaru Dizzy ..????? Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi all > >Has anyone had any experence with Subaru AE92 Turbo Dizzy's > >Ive wired up the whole system (using an autronics system) > >ok problem is: > >with the dizzy in and cranking over I get the 4x trigger and no 1x (TDC) >trigger.....now the funny thing is that it i pull the dizzy out and spin >it around by hand it all works fine.....even with a earth strap hooked >up in the same location ......now explain that????? > > >any thoughts??? > >Juz! I don't know poop about your particular engine--but it seems to me that perhaps if your 4x trigger signal is coming from a sensor located elsewhere than in the dizzy (flywheel?), and that mebbe the dizzy ain't being turned when its installed in the motor? Have you checked this out? Might be time to put away the crimpers and VOM and break out the spanners! If that isn't it ?????????? From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 13:34:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02417 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:34:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [207.201.33.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02413 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:34:46 -0400 Received: from default (ttyD48.redding.snowcrest.net [209.148.36.137]) by snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA27335 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 10:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980809103427.00a24ca0@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 10:34:27 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum In-Reply-To: <002301bdc385$00a4a9e0$48198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 07:01 AM 8/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Shannen Durphey >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 3:13 AM >Subject: programming 101 and checksum > > >>Memory location 0x004 is listed as the checksum enable for >>7747 ecm. This value is $42 in my factory files. Does >>anyone know what the value is to disable checksum? > >AA > > Also, >>this location in 8747 ecm contains the value $4F. Is it >>safe to assume this is checksum enable for this ecm? > >I don't know, could try a chip with AA entry and see > >Bruce > >>Thanks >> >>Shannen >> > >Hi All If ya have time - just disassemble code. The checksum is usually early in program section. Being a novice it was one of my first finds for 165 ecm. Vance From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 13:35:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02430 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:35:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from suntan.eng.usf.edu (root@suntan.eng.usf.edu [131.247.14.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02426 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:35:17 -0400 Received: from centauri (tampappp159.net.usf.edu [131.247.166.159]) by suntan.eng.usf.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA06072 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199808091735.NAA06072@suntan.eng.usf.edu> From: "Jake Lindeke" Organization: Supra Owners Group International To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:41:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35CDCE9D.333B7368@home.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu These questions would be better sent to the toyota supra mailing list www.supras.com > I haven't found any specs on the sensor to test it. This is a Toyota > Supra. How would you test it with an ohm meter at hot and cold temp? > > Walter Petermann wrote: > > > > Hi Victor, > > does the system have a working O2 sensor? > > > > Walter > > > > Victor Tomanov wrote: > > > > > > The ECU that controls my system doesn't have a diagnostic capacity. > > > I'm at a loss at how to figure out if the ECU is running the motor > > > correctly and if the mixture is realy what it should be. It seems > > > rich. I'm looking for a way to modify the lean rich mixture variable > > > either by taping into one of the sensors or adding a pot to the ECU. > > > Does anyone have a working knowledge of this injecting system? Thanks > > > for any help. there is a vf1 signal on the diag port. if hook a multi meter to it. i cant rember what each voltage means but i think the range is 1v - 5v one meaning really lean, 2 kinda lean, 3 perfect, 4 kinda rich, 5 really rich. this works for all toyota cars and trucks. --Jake Lindeke --SOGI South-East Chapter Coordinator --http://sesogi.bsfh.org From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 13:47:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02547 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:47:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02543 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:47:30 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA19705 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:47:44 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:50:31 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system In-Reply-To: <35CDCE9D.333B7368@home.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu do you wish to run richer for boost considerations? -Jim Lill http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Victor Tomanov wrote: > I haven't found any specs on the sensor to test it. This is a Toyota > Supra. How would you test it with an ohm meter at hot and cold temp? > > Walter Petermann wrote: > > > > Hi Victor, > > does the system have a working O2 sensor? > > > > Walter > > > > Victor Tomanov wrote: > > > > > > The ECU that controls my system doesn't have a diagnostic capacity. I'm > > > at a loss at how to figure out if the ECU is running the motor correctly > > > and if the mixture is realy what it should be. It seems rich. I'm > > > looking for a way to modify the lean rich mixture variable either by > > > taping into one of the sensors or adding a pot to the ECU. Does anyone > > > have a working knowledge of this injecting system? > > > Thanks for any help. > From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 13:58:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02663 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:58:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02657 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:58:47 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-33.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.102]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id NAA09164 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ad01bdc3bf$cd735720$66198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Benching ecms Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:01:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu With both ecms "running" having the +5v for the sensors tied together seems to generate "No Smoke". Next question, does this only work with both ecms powered up?. Can I have them wired like this and be running only one at a time?. Seems like there is enough internal resistance to the off ecm not to hurt things, but I only did this momentarily. Would the real answer be using ganged pots?. I've tried looking in my digi-key, and a couple other catalogs, but turned up no sources. When doing pulse generators, is it better to use a 558, and use a 4017 for getting low rpm signals?. For those veiwing from afar the reason is that I need to get accurate 200 rpm steps. The gms from what I read do interpolation from one step to the next for timing etc, so I gots to be close, to read changes accurately. Much more and it seems like a commercial used freguency generator will be the answer. So if ya got a working gen please e-mail me. Thanks again Bruce nacelp@bright.net From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 14:48:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03426 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:48:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.146.90.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03421 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:48:11 -0400 Received: from horizon.hit.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (980427.SGI.8.8.8/940406.SGI) for id OAA29547; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from horizon.hit.net (ark131.hit.net [206.252.172.175]) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA29941 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:47:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35CDEE91.56F88EE6@horizon.hit.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 13:46:41 -0500 From: Roger Heflin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very different Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey, I have a 93 Z28 LT1. I have a custom computer reprogram. I replaced the stock (probably worn out) OPTIspark (basically distributor with some optical sensors for better timing) with a SDI ignition system. The SDI system has 1 coil per 2 cylinders. Before the SDI system: Idleing out of gear: Learns: 113/124 Integrators: 108/114 Injectors 2.1 +- .1 or so. O2 sensors are cycling pretty regularly. 150-950 mv Idleing in gear: Learns: 128/129 Integrators: 122/122 Injectors: 2.5 +- .1 or so. O2 sensors are cycling pretty regularly. 150-950mv After the SDI: Idleing out of gear: Learns: 108/108 Integratros: 1/1 Injectors 1.7 (not really changing) O2 sensors are mostly rich. Some cycling. Idleing in Gear: Learns: 108/108 Integrators: 110/70 Injectors: 2.1 +- 1 O2 sensors less rich than above, cycling is lower frequency than before the sdi, but there is cycling. I do have the before and after diacom runs. The learns seem to stop at 108, my guess is that at idle before I was having alot of missfires from a aged ign. system, and now that is no longer the case. Originally the guy doing the reprogramming adjusted the injector (I had new bigger injectors) until the block learns looked reasonable. Now with the new ign system, things are running significantly different, so it did change something. Also before the gas mileage was really poor, 4-5 mph off what I thought it should have been, it will take about a week or so for me to get enough miles to determine if the gas mileage has changed. Is this a reasonable conclusion given the data? And if it is a reasonable conclusion does anyone know the address and format of the injector size in a 93 Z28 GM prom? I have the necessary tools if I knew where the injector size was. Thanks Roger Heflin 93 Z28 rah@horizon.hit.net From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 14:49:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03456 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:49:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03451 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:49:42 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-188.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.188]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id LAA06558 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35CDF01A.64E0@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 11:53:14 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Benching ecms References: <00ad01bdc3bf$cd735720$66198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What you're looking for is called a function generator. If you've got a scope to keep an eye on freq you can jive one together with a 555 for practically nothing. Rat Shack has timer how-to. CMOS COOKBOOK also covers 555 apps. Regards, Jack From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 16:18:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04415 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:18:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m4.stny.lrun.com (stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04411 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:18:46 -0400 Received: from m5.stny.lrun.com (m5.stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.20]) by m4.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA09095 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:18:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stny.lrun.com (bing302a.stny.lrun.com [204.210.134.52]) by m5.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA03483 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CE03FD.653F7E07@stny.lrun.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 16:18:05 -0400 From: Thomas Matthews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: LT1 swap References: <35CDEE91.56F88EE6@horizon.hit.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Can a 90-92 7730 ECM run a early LT1? Specifically, can it understand the ignition system without any extra programming? I would swap this engine into my 3rd gen Bird which has TPI, this way I could keep the orig harness and not have to learn how to program the later ECM's... Don't the 92-94 LT1's have something different than the 95-up Optispark? TIA Tom From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 16:48:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA04682 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:48:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA04674 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:48:26 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm2-072.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.72]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA02403 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 14:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35CE0BBF.BCE536F7@mcn.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 14:51:11 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum References: <3.0.3.32.19980809103427.00a24ca0@snowcrest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Vance Rose wrote: > > At 07:01 AM 8/9/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Shannen Durphey > >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 3:13 AM > >Subject: programming 101 and checksum > > > > > >>Memory location 0x004 is listed as the checksum enable for > >>7747 ecm. This value is $42 in my factory files. Does > >>anyone know what the value is to disable checksum? > > > >AA > > > > Also, > >>this location in 8747 ecm contains the value $4F. Is it > >>safe to assume this is checksum enable for this ecm? > > > >I don't know, could try a chip with AA entry and see > > > >Bruce > > > >>Thanks > >> > >>Shannen > >> > > > >Hi All > > If ya have time - just disassemble code. The checksum is usually early in > program section. Being a novice it was one of my first finds for 165 ecm. > > Vance Ummm, you make it sound so easy, I wish I knew what you meant. I've looked at disassembled code on Ludis' site, and it's pretty much Greek to me. So where's a guy to go to learn more? Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 17:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05193 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:40:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05189 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:40:23 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-33.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.102]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id RAA19688 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011f01bdc3de$c897f5c0$66198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very different Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:43:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Roger Heflin Subject: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very different Now with the new ign system, things are >running significantly different, so it did change something. Is this a reasonable conclusion given the >data? Is this a stock cam??.. If a non-stock cam, then seems like the plug firing at overlap might be and emission aid. Amazing results, were the plugs changed?. Was this just coils, and wires (plus electronics)?. Wonder if the gm is limiting the coil output somehow on the the oem coil or if there was a RFI problem with a good coil And if it is a reasonable conclusion does anyone know the address and format of >the injector size in a 93 Z28 GM prom? I have the necessary tools if I knew where the >injector size was. > > Thanks > Roger Heflin > 93 Z28 > rah@horizon.hit.net > Thanks for the results Bruce From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 17:46:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05260 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:46:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA05256 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:46:00 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-128-146.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.128.146]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA17867 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CE183E.3AB6E17A@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 17:44:30 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: LT1 swap References: <35CDEE91.56F88EE6@horizon.hit.net> <35CE03FD.653F7E07@stny.lrun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am told from the vette-net that the Lt1 and opti-crap have a differant computer interface than a normal computer HEI such as talkes to a L98 or 1227730 computer..... You MAY be able to install another distr. from an earlier model into the late Lt1 but I'm not sure of this....at a minimum you may have to drill a hole into the intake manifold.....GENE Thomas Matthews wrote: > > Can a 90-92 7730 ECM run a early LT1? Specifically, can it understand > the ignition system without any extra programming? I would swap this > engine into my 3rd gen Bird which has TPI, this way I could keep the > orig harness and not have to learn how to program the later ECM's... > Don't the 92-94 LT1's have something different than the 95-up Optispark? > TIA > Tom -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 17:55:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA05411 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:55:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ihgw1.lucent.com (ihgw1.lucent.com [207.19.48.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05407 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:55:27 -0400 Received: from nwmail.wh.lucent.com by ihig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id RAA17216; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:21:54 -0500 Received: by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id RAA18134; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:55:18 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id RAA18129; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 17:55:17 -0400 Message-ID: <35CE1B77.51B7E74F@lucent.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 17:58:15 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: LT1 swap References: <35CDEE91.56F88EE6@horizon.hit.net> <35CE03FD.653F7E07@stny.lrun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu All LT1's use the Opticrap ignition. They did change the computer in 94. 94 to 97 LT1's used the 8051 PCM. and include sequential injection & control of the 4L60E trans. The 92 & 93 used an earlier Batch fire computer with a 700R4. I don't know the Code for this ECM, but the LT1 definitly included an OptiSpark. Ken Thomas Matthews wrote: > > Can a 90-92 7730 ECM run a early LT1? Specifically, can it understand > the ignition system without any extra programming? I would swap this > engine into my 3rd gen Bird which has TPI, this way I could keep the > orig harness and not have to learn how to program the later ECM's... > Don't the 92-94 LT1's have something different than the 95-up Optispark? > TIA > Tom From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 19:11:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06181 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:11:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (mta@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06177 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:11:52 -0400 Received: from home.com (cr875931-a.wlfdle1.on.wave.home.com [24.112.78.41]) by mail.rdc1.on.wave.home.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA4B25 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:11:47 -0700 Message-ID: <35CE2B30.89374F97@home.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 19:05:20 -0400 From: Victor Tomanov Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-AtHome0402 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system References: <199808091735.NAA06072@suntan.eng.usf.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It's an 82. These cars made in Japan did not have the Diagnostic side of the Computer installed nor did it come with a check engine light. It's the most frusterating part of the car. I used to be on the Supra list but now need a wizard to pick mail relevant to what I'm interested in. Until then I just goto the Web page for info. The car doesn't cold start and I'm sure it's to do with air, (cold start injector fires fine) the Idle air bypass is what I'm looking at as a problem but I would love to talk to someone who has played with these devices and know how to check them beond what the books say. Info like flow through valve and percent close when cold would be great. I'll get back on the Supra List and see if anyone has any ideas. Thanks, VIc. Jake Lindeke wrote: > > These questions would be better sent to the toyota supra mailing list > www.supras.com > > > I haven't found any specs on the sensor to test it. This is a Toyota > > Supra. How would you test it with an ohm meter at hot and cold temp? > > > > Walter Petermann wrote: > > > > > > Hi Victor, > > > does the system have a working O2 sensor? > > > > > > Walter > > > > > > Victor Tomanov wrote: > > > > > > > > The ECU that controls my system doesn't have a diagnostic capacity. > > > > I'm at a loss at how to figure out if the ECU is running the motor > > > > correctly and if the mixture is realy what it should be. It seems > > > > rich. I'm looking for a way to modify the lean rich mixture variable > > > > either by taping into one of the sensors or adding a pot to the ECU. > > > > Does anyone have a working knowledge of this injecting system? Thanks > > > > for any help. > > there is a vf1 signal on the diag port. if hook a multi meter to it. i cant rember > what each voltage means but i think the range is 1v - 5v one meaning really > lean, 2 kinda lean, 3 perfect, 4 kinda rich, 5 really rich. this works for all toyota > cars and trucks. > > --Jake Lindeke > --SOGI South-East Chapter Coordinator > --http://sesogi.bsfh.org From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 19:28:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06380 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:28:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06376 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:28:47 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #15587) id <01J0EQZIF7TC000099@UALR.EDU>; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:28:42 CDT Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 11:58:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Motorola Phone Number To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <507027.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 X-Envelope-to: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> (M68HC11RM/AD) aka "pink book" is on there as a PDF... And so -> are the series specific books like the "e-series", "n-series", etc of PDFs are absolutely useless to me. As far as I can tell they're just pictures, like .GIFs or .JPEGs. I can view a PDF in Adobe's fat, slow picture viewer thing, or I can print it, but I can't extract any data to cut and paste into my notes or source code. I suppose I could dump a PDF to the printer, scan it, OCR it, and proofread it, but I'd just as soon find a vendor that knows how to provide data in a normal ASCII format. From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 20:05:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06857 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:05:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06853 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:05:11 -0400 From: AL8001@aol.com Received: from AL8001@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7FROa11435; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:04:15 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <45c3d30a.35ce3900@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:04:15 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, amexon@ozemail.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ford EEC IV Computers/Intel- Motorola # ? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-08-09 01:03:48 EDT, amexon@ozemail.com.au writes: >Does anyone know if all EEC IV computers as fitted to Ford vehicles are the >same (interchangeable)? >Do they all have the same part number? >Do they have different part numbers for different vehicles? > >I believe mine might be faulty and as my model of vehicle (1986 5.0 litre >F150) is uncommon in Australia, I would like to know whether or not I can >just take one from another Ford that uses an EEC IV. > >Thanks in advance, >Tony > > Not all Ford EEC- IV computers are the same. Ford uses a soldered in prom so every engine/trans/ body has a different #. Though there are basic series of computers with different part # and the same computer board. Look on the sticker in the area that says " EEC-IV" near by there will be a fuel system code. Also heat stamped( not the molded connecter # ) on the ECM connecter there will be a engineering # , this should be the base un programed ECM #. You may be able to get a ECM that is more common then swap your PROM From my stack of Ford computers come these codes: Code on sticker Car Engineering # Part # CFI-SD 86 LTD V6 T body inj E4LB-14A624-BB E4VF-12A650-E1A Map system EFI-TC5 85 XR4Ti 2.3 Turbo E5ZB-14A624-AA E5ZF-12A650-K1A Multi port inj Bosch L Jet flap air meter FBC-DLX5 85 Ranger Tk 2.8 V6 E4LB-14A624-AC E57F-12A650-C1A CFI-SD11 88 Escort 1.9 T body E6D8-14A624-MA E7EF-12A650-BC inj MAP air flow EFI-MA35G 90 Explorer V6 E9AF-14A624-AA F07F-12A650-ABB Now for my question. Anyone have a interchange for a Intel Prom or Motorola chips? ( I tried the Intel web page, all they show are PC CPU chips and the Motorola page didnot show a 81C61A chip). I'm mostly interested in the Merkur chip info. The Escort ECM has a windowed Prom "D8763-1 N73120FRN S56014" With a big dotted " i " to the left. Intel? The sticker on the outside of the ECM says 32K Prom. The CPU is a Motorolla 81C61-A, A Motor web search showed nothing. The Merkur XR4Ti has a silk screened rectangle around the outside of one chip, ( enough room that a socket could be installed and still show the notch for chip orientation). No window on the chip " 6128B-1895 8001EN083" With a big " T " on the left. There is also another chip "78001FEN085" with a big " i " to the left, Intel? the chip also says " ( symbol for copyright) Fo Mo Co " and " (symbol for copyright) ' 80. The Ranger ECM has the "78001FEN085" Intel chip. The silk screened rectangle chip says " 8001EN063 < not my typo) 8430A C251353 NCR 6093800062 " The Explorer ECM has a "87C 66 480 N74130FEC " windowed PROM and a 81C62A chip. Thanks From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 20:12:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06958 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:12:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06953 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:12:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA10403 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:11:41 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:11:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very different In-Reply-To: <011f01bdc3de$c897f5c0$66198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > From: Roger Heflin > Subject: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very > different > > Now with the new ign system, things are > >running significantly different, so it did change something. > Is this a reasonable conclusion given the > >data? > Is this a stock cam??.. > > If a non-stock cam, then seems like the plug firing at overlap might be > and emission aid. Non-stock cam. The cam I have is a bit larger. > > Amazing results, were the plugs changed?. Was this just coils, and > wires (plus electronics)?. > The plugs only had about 5k on them. The whole system (ign) was replaced, including wires. It went from dist to 1 coil/2 cylinders. The optispark (dist) had 110k on it. On other LT1 cars these things have been wearing out in much less than that, so it could be the reason why my gas mileage has continually dropped since the car was new. > Wonder if the gm is limiting the coil output somehow on the the oem > coil or if there was a RFI problem with a good coil > I am going to have to see what the gas mileage. Does anyone know if having the timing changed would cause this kind of differences in fuel usage? The car sounds the same, and I did some tests, and power is pretty close to the same. Roger From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 20:18:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07068 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:18:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07063 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:18:52 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11202 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:18:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:18:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: LT1 swap In-Reply-To: <35CE03FD.653F7E07@stny.lrun.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Thomas Matthews wrote: > Can a 90-92 7730 ECM run a early LT1? Specifically, can it understand > the ignition system without any extra programming? I would swap this > engine into my 3rd gen Bird which has TPI, this way I could keep the > orig harness and not have to learn how to program the later ECM's... > Don't the 92-94 LT1's have something different than the 95-up Optispark? > TIA > Tom > They all have optisparks. The 95+ have a vacuum host added to evacuate the optispark and hopefully keep it dry. I have just installed a fully electronic ignition system that tricks the computer into thinking it works like the optispark. I am still uncertain how well it is working. It siginficantly changed how the car was running, in terms of how much fuel the car was used at idle. The web page for it is: www.electromotive-inc.com. The price for it is $799 (with the hardware to fool the optispark computer). Without the optispark fooler is is somewhat cheaper. I will update everyone on how well my work with this thing goes. Roger 93 Z28 From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 21:15:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA07831 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:15:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA07827 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:14:58 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA23306; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:15:05 -0400 Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:17:48 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: Victor Tomanov cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I'm looking at diagnosing problems with a L-Jetronic system In-Reply-To: <35CE2B30.89374F97@home.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bosch supplies a few replacement parts but they do not list Toyota ECU's. Watson lists Toyota as a L-Jet user in his book but no specifics. No L-Jet that I know of that was used in a US-spec euro-car has any form of diagnostics and as the ECU has no uProcessor, it would be tough for it to have any. Do you access to Watson's nook ISBN 0-87938-570-7 ? He has a good section on L-Jet repair etc. -Jim Lill http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 21:15:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA07839 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:15:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07835 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:15:44 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp32.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.162]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA13911 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:15:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35CE1DE4.26CDCF85@mwt.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 17:08:36 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ford EEC IV Computers/Intel- Motorola # ? References: <45c3d30a.35ce3900@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The chip is non-standard and they normally use a add-on board to change the table values and plugs into the service plug on the side of box . Steve AL8001@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-08-09 01:03:48 EDT, amexon@ozemail.com.au writes: > > >Does anyone know if all EEC IV computers as fitted to Ford vehicles are the > >same (interchangeable)? > >Do they all have the same part number? > >Do they have different part numbers for different vehicles? > > > >I believe mine might be faulty and as my model of vehicle (1986 5.0 litre > >F150) is uncommon in Australia, I would like to know whether or not I can > >just take one from another Ford that uses an EEC IV. > > > >Thanks in advance, > >Tony > > > > > > Not all Ford EEC- IV computers are the same. Ford uses a soldered in prom so > every engine/trans/ body has a different #. Though there are basic series of > computers with different part # and the same computer board. > > Look on the sticker in the area that says " EEC-IV" near by there will be a > fuel system code. Also heat stamped( not the molded connecter # ) on the ECM > connecter there will be a engineering # , this should be the base un programed > ECM #. > > You may be able to get a ECM that is more common then swap your PROM > > From my stack of Ford computers come these codes: > > Code on > sticker Car Engineering # > Part # > > CFI-SD 86 LTD V6 T body inj E4LB-14A624-BB > E4VF-12A650-E1A > Map system > > EFI-TC5 85 XR4Ti 2.3 Turbo E5ZB-14A624-AA > E5ZF-12A650-K1A > Multi port inj Bosch > L Jet flap air meter > > FBC-DLX5 85 Ranger Tk 2.8 V6 E4LB-14A624-AC > E57F-12A650-C1A > > CFI-SD11 88 Escort 1.9 T body E6D8-14A624-MA E7EF-12A650-BC > inj MAP air flow > > EFI-MA35G 90 Explorer V6 E9AF-14A624-AA > F07F-12A650-ABB > > Now for my question. Anyone have a interchange for a Intel Prom or Motorola > chips? ( I tried the Intel web page, all they show are PC CPU chips and the > Motorola page didnot show a 81C61A chip). I'm mostly interested in the > Merkur chip info. > > The Escort ECM has a windowed Prom "D8763-1 N73120FRN S56014" With a > big dotted " i " to the left. Intel? The sticker on the outside of the ECM > says 32K Prom. The CPU is a Motorolla 81C61-A, A Motor web search showed > nothing. > > The Merkur XR4Ti has a silk screened rectangle around the outside of one > chip, ( enough room that a socket could be installed and still show the notch > for chip orientation). No window on the chip " 6128B-1895 8001EN083" > With a big " T " on the left. There is also another chip "78001FEN085" with > a big " i " to the left, Intel? the chip also says " ( symbol for copyright) > Fo Mo Co " and " (symbol for copyright) ' 80. > > The Ranger ECM has the "78001FEN085" Intel chip. The silk screened rectangle > chip says " 8001EN063 < not my typo) 8430A C251353 NCR 6093800062 " > > The Explorer ECM has a "87C 66 480 N74130FEC " windowed PROM and a 81C62A > chip. > > Thanks From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 21:31:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA08082 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:31:59 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08075 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:31:55 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-16.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.34]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id VAA13743 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001901bdc3ff$1fb563e0$22198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very different Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:35:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very different >I am going to have to see what the gas mileage. Does anyone know if >having the timing changed would cause this kind of differences in fuel >usage? If the improvements are enough to be reflected inna lower cruise TPS, then I'd expect to see a change. Now, with that being said, if the BL/INT changes alot then it may not be so much. Low cruise gets quite complicated when ya mix in BL/INT IAC counts. Your setup, does it use a crank attached disc? With Hall effect switches?, Does the module look to be a gm unit like off a v-8 caddy?. Matter of fact are there any numbers showing on things?. Curious minds and all Cheers Bruce The car sounds the same, and I did some tests, and power is >pretty close to the same. > > Roger > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 22:03:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08630 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:03:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08624 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:03:20 -0400 Received: from kennethb (host-209-214-60-92.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.92]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA25435 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:03:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980809220408.006b3af8@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: iflyrc@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Demo Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 22:04:08 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Kenneth Bailey Subject: [rx-7] ECU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 18:14:26 -0400 >To: diy >From: Kenneth Bailey >Subject: [rx-7] ECU > >Sorry guys, I'm not to sure how you set the subject in this group. If I have done it incorrectly please show me the way :) > >Ok, I want to reprogram the 86 RX-7 ECU for power and so fourth. Can you please help me or point me to some one who can. > >Please don't sent me to a 3-400.00 some body else sell's the chip. > >I'm cheap and want to DIM ... > > >Ken > >86 Candy Apple Red From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 22:10:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08793 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:10:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08788 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:10:23 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA26267 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:09:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 21:09:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running very different In-Reply-To: <001901bdc3ff$1fb563e0$22198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > From: Roger Heflin > Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system, and computer running > very different > > >I am going to have to see what the gas mileage. Does anyone know if > >having the timing changed would cause this kind of differences in fuel > >usage? > > If the improvements are enough to be reflected inna lower cruise > TPS, then I'd expect to see a change. Now, with that being said, > if the BL/INT changes alot then it may not be so much. Low cruise > gets quite complicated when ya mix in BL/INT IAC counts. > > Your setup, does it use a crank attached disc? > With Hall effect switches?, > Does the module look to be a gm unit like off a v-8 caddy?. > Matter of fact are there any numbers showing on things?. > Curious minds and all > Cheers > Bruce There were not numbers showing on the thing. It is a crank trigger, with a magnetic sensor. The trigger has slots every 6 degrees, and it has a area where there are no slots for 4-6 teeth. You can see a picture of the wheel in question at: http://www.electromotive-inc.com/Camaro.htm There is a picture of exactly the wheel I have in these directions. This is also the full directions for the installation of the part. I found some stock injector idle runs. Stock the car was idling with 2.5-2.6 ms on a 22 lb injector. The current injectors are rated to be 30 lb at 39 psi (the old were 22@45) so at 45 the current injectors should be rated around 34.5 lb/hr. Before my idle was running 2.1 at idle which is more gas than I was using with the old injectors, so something was off. Quick calculations (2.1*22/34.6 = 1.3 so based on this to have the same amount of fuel it would need 1.3 with the current injectors rather than the 2.1 I had. The idle is boosted over what it was so it probably needs more than 1.3, and the computer seems sure it needs less than 1.7 which is I guess about right. With the block learns and integrators where they are need to work on the computer. The gas mileage should be better with it running that much less gas. I should know by the end of the week if the mileage is better. Roger 93 Z28 From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 22:31:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA09102 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:31:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09098 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:31:53 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-109.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.109]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id TAA04071 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35CE5C5C.65AD@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 19:35:08 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [rx-7] ECU References: <3.0.3.32.19980809220408.006b3af8@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ok, but are you determined to use Forth? Kenneth Bailey wrote: >Sorry guys, I'm not to sure how you set the subject in this group. If I > have done it incorrectly please show me the way :) > > > >Ok, I want to reprogram the 86 RX-7 ECU for power and so forth. Can you > please help me or point me to some one who can. From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 23:03:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09589 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:03:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09585 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:03:20 -0400 Received: from gte.net (1Cust157.tnt2.plano.tx.da.uu.net [208.252.48.157]) by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id WAA21271 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:03:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35CE632E.C75CC294@gte.net> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 22:04:14 -0500 From: Terry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system....... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Roger Heflin wrote: > There were not numbers showing on the thing. It is a crank trigger, with > a magnetic sensor. The trigger has slots every 6 degrees, and it has a > area where there are no slots for 4-6 teeth. You can see a picture of > the wheel in question at: http://www.electromotive-inc.com/Camaro.htm > There is a picture of exactly the wheel I have in these directions. This > is also the full directions for the installation of the part. Roger - does your tach seem to work correctly with the SDI unit in place? The above URL mentions that a tach adapter might be necessary for correct operation.... thanks, T. From diy_efi-owner Sun Aug 9 23:26:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA09930 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:26:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA09924 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:25:59 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA08195 for ; Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:25:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:25:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Replaced Dist ign system with SDI system....... In-Reply-To: <35CE632E.C75CC294@gte.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Terry wrote: > Roger Heflin wrote: > > > There were not numbers showing on the thing. It is a crank trigger, with > > a magnetic sensor. The trigger has slots every 6 degrees, and it has a > > area where there are no slots for 4-6 teeth. You can see a picture of > > the wheel in question at: http://www.electromotive-inc.com/Camaro.htm > > There is a picture of exactly the wheel I have in these directions. This > > is also the full directions for the installation of the part. > > Roger - does your tach seem to work correctly with the SDI unit > in place? The above URL mentions that a tach adapter might be > necessary for correct operation.... > You have not been reading. No it does not work. I did make it work, by bypassing the tach filter on the car, but then the engine did not seem to run good at all. Even without the filter was bypassed the engine won't idle (or stop/start) exactly right with their tach signal. Right now the car is running pretty reasonable, at idle it is running rich with less gas than before, so something is different. Roger From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 01:05:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA10702 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:05:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA10698 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:05:30 -0400 Received: from kennethb (host-209-214-60-35.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.35]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA01324 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980810010617.006a047c@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: iflyrc@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Demo Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 01:06:17 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Kenneth Bailey Subject: Re: [rx-7] ECU In-Reply-To: <35CE5C5C.65AD@pacbell.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19980809220408.006b3af8@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 07:35 PM 8/9/98 -0700, you wrote: >Ok, but are you determined to use Forth? > >Kenneth Bailey wrote: > >Sorry guys, I'm not to sure how you set the subject in this group. If >I >> have done it incorrectly please show me the way :) >> > >> >Ok, I want to reprogram the 86 RX-7 ECU for power and so forth. Can you >> please help me or point me to some one who can. > Sorry that was a typo, although I do know the language. No I just want to put it where it will perform.. Can you help ? From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 07:08:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12854 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:08:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA12850 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:08:49 -0400 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA09727 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:10:28 +1000 Received: from gou-ppp-070.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.70), claiming to be "jalbury" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda09697; Mon Aug 10 21:10:17 1998 Message-ID: <35CED634.4D63@tpgi.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:15:00 +1000 From: Justin Albury Organization: VK2HJA X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Subaru Dizzy ..????? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg Hermann wrote: > > >Hi all > > > >Has anyone had any experence with Subaru AE92 Turbo Dizzy's > > > >Ive wired up the whole system (using an autronics system) > > > >ok problem is: > > > >with the dizzy in and cranking over I get the 4x trigger and no 1x (TDC) > >trigger.....now the funny thing is that it i pull the dizzy out and spin > >it around by hand it all works fine.....even with a earth strap hooked > >up in the same location ......now explain that????? > > > > > >any thoughts??? > > > >Juz! > I don't know poop about your particular engine--but it seems to me that > perhaps if your 4x trigger signal is coming from a sensor located elsewhere > than in the dizzy (flywheel?), and that mebbe the dizzy ain't being turned > when its installed in the motor? Have you checked this out? Might be time > to put away the crimpers and VOM and break out the spanners! If that isn't > it ?????????? no but thanks for the input.......1 dizzy 2 pickups ......same setup as a nissan efi..... and it spinning! Juz! From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 09:58:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14177 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:58:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from impcotechnologies.com ([208.229.106.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA14172 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:58:28 -0400 Received: from IMPCO#u#Cerritos-Message_Server by impcotechnologies.com with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 06 Aug 1998 09:18:24 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 09:12:22 -0700 From: "Jose Rodriguez" To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Injector Driver Module Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id JAA14173 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. Thanks in advance for your answers! The current specs I have are: Eight injectors. Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. Duty cycle: up to 80..85% Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = 6V. Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous power thru injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average power over one cycle will be much less. One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty cycle). In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst power at injector: (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heatsink's surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would mean the thermal resistance from the heatsink to ambient would be (150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heatsink doing that, without the need for forced cooling. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 10:19:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14546 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:19:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14541 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:19:41 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-129-211.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.129.211]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04129 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CF0130.7AC2EA51@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:18:24 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu IF I read your analysis correctly....you forgot that is a 4 cycle engine...so the on time is only ~40% on a real time basis....NO? GENE Jose Rodriguez wrote: > > I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. Thanks in advance for your answers! > > The current specs I have are: > > Eight injectors. > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. > Duty cycle: up to 80..85% > Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C > Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. > > I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) > > First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = 6V. > Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous power thru injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. > The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average power over one cycle will be much less. > > One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty cycle). > In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. > Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst power at injector: (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). > > Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. > > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). > > As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heatsink's surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would mean the thermal resistance from the heatsink to ambient would be (150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heatsink doing that, without the need for forced cooling. -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 11:07:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15195 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:07:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ocfexch2.ocf (ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov [146.137.76.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15189 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:07:43 -0400 Received: by ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:10:34 -0500 Message-ID: <8B0E1273DCFFD111B35F0060083A3496011E8A@ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov> From: "Kurek, Larry" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: LT1 swap Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:10:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Won't work. The Optispark ignition has both a high res and low res signal going to the ECM. You could probably convert the car with an Electromotive DIS system and run it...but that would be an interesting project. The 93 doesn't have the MAF sensor, just a MAP, while the 94+ has both. Oh yeah, the LT1 also has two O2 sensors, not the one of the L98. TTYL! Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas Matthews [SMTP:tmatthew@stny.lrun.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 1998 3:18 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: LT1 swap > > Can a 90-92 7730 ECM run a early LT1? Specifically, can it understand > the ignition system without any extra programming? I would swap this > engine into my 3rd gen Bird which has TPI, this way I could keep the > orig harness and not have to learn how to program the later ECM's... > Don't the 92-94 LT1's have something different than the 95-up > Optispark? > TIA > Tom From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 11:27:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15385 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:27:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15379 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:27:07 -0400 Received: (from jpl@localhost) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA27157; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:27:20 GMT Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:27:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Bosch Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I hunting for any Bosch info beyond what is in books like Bosch's own, Probst's, and Watson's. I have a webpage going with a lot of what I've found so far at http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/bosch.html I'm mostly looking for earlier stuff like L-Jet, LH-Jet, EZK Ignition. If you know of any webpages or other mailing lists that might be of help, please let me know. Many thanks in advance! -Jim From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 11:52:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15704 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:52:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15700 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:52:27 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id KAA01850 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:52:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808101552.KAA01850@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Received: from unknown(208.142.33.238) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001751; Mon Aug 10 10:51:54 1998 X-Sender: dewhisna@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:54:11 -0500 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Donald Whisnant Subject: Re: Motorola Phone Number In-Reply-To: <199808100900.FAA12021@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) >Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 11:58:00 -0500 >Subject: Re: Motorola Phone Number > > PDFs are absolutely useless to me. As far as I can tell they're just >pictures, like .GIFs or .JPEGs. I can view a PDF in Adobe's fat, slow >picture viewer thing, or I can print it, but I can't extract any data to >cut and paste into my notes or source code. I suppose I could dump a >PDF to the printer, scan it, OCR it, and proofread it, but I'd just as >soon find a vendor that knows how to provide data in a normal ASCII >format. > Uhh... You do know that you can just cut and paste right of Adobe's acrobat reader don't you?? Select the little icon on the tool bar that has "abc" with a dotted box around it... That will put it in the selection mode... Then highlight the section you want and hit ctrl-insert to copy it to the clipboard... Then simply paste it (as ASCII) into the document of your choice... ... I think you can also cut/paste the pictures as well... ... PDF files are vector graphics files (not raster like .jpg, .gif, etc)... Therefore, you have a lot more flexibility and control -- it is kind of like having a MS Word doc or something... Hence the name "portable document format" or PDF... Donald From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 12:04:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16059 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:04:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mozart.bcit.bc.ca (aix4.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.164]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16055 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:04:42 -0400 Received: from Default (usr002.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.188.102]) by mozart.bcit.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA03994 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:03:53 -0700 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:03:53 -0700 Message-Id: <199808101603.JAA03994@mozart.bcit.bc.ca> X-Sender: ffnsp955@pophost.bcit.bc.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howday Try running the injectors in series parallel arrangement. later:peter At 09:12 AM 8/6/98 -0700, you wrote: > I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. Thanks in advance for your answers! > > The current specs I have are: > > Eight injectors. > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. > Duty cycle: up to 80..85% > Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C > Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. > > I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) > > First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = 6V. > Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous power thru injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. > The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average power over one cycle will be much less. > > One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty cycle). > In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. > Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst power at injector: (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). > > Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. > > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). > > As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heatsink's surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would mean the thermal resistance from the heatsink to ambient would be (150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heatsink doing that, without the need for forced cooling. > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 12:10:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16195 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:10:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [207.201.33.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16190 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:10:42 -0400 Received: from default (ttyDc.redding.snowcrest.net [209.148.36.13]) by snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19320 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:10:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980810090903.007c2100@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:09:03 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum In-Reply-To: <35CE0BBF.BCE536F7@mcn.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19980809103427.00a24ca0@snowcrest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 02:51 PM 8/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >Vance Rose wrote: >> >> At 07:01 AM 8/9/98 -0400, you wrote: >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Shannen Durphey >> >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 3:13 AM >> >Subject: programming 101 and checksum >> > >> > >> >>Memory location 0x004 is listed as the checksum enable for >> >>7747 ecm. This value is $42 in my factory files. Does >> >>anyone know what the value is to disable checksum? >> > >> >AA >> > >> > Also, >> >>this location in 8747 ecm contains the value $4F. Is it >> >>safe to assume this is checksum enable for this ecm? >> > >> >I don't know, could try a chip with AA entry and see >> > >> >Bruce >> > >> >>Thanks >> >> >> >>Shannen >> >> >> > >> >Hi All >> >> If ya have time - just disassemble code. The checksum is usually early in >> program section. Being a novice it was one of my first finds for 165 ecm. >> >> Vance > >Ummm, you make it sound so easy, I wish I knew what you >meant. I've looked at disassembled code on Ludis' site, and >it's pretty much Greek to me. So where's a guy to go to >learn more? > >Shannen > >Hi Shannen Easy - nooo!! If your learning it's actaully vverry boring. Kinda like watching paint dry. Have to really want to do the work. In my file have only commented about 20 pages, about 145 to finish that one file. Do that work in winter evening when rhere is nothing else to tinker with. A good start would be the pink motorola book for 68hc11. There has been recent post about source for it. Vance From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 12:23:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16452 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:23:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from impcotechnologies.com ([208.229.106.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA16448 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:23:47 -0400 Received: from IMPCO#u#Cerritos-Message_Server by impcotechnologies.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:24:46 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:18:54 -0700 From: "Jose Rodriguez" To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id MAA16449 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gene, thanks for your response. How did you obtain the ~40% number? Was that by doing (0.5)*(0.85)=42.5%? Even if I use 40% instead of 85%, I am still in trouble. Power per driver (at 16V) is (14.5W)*(0.4) = 5.8W; total for eight injector drivers: 46.4W. I just can not see how the OEM manufacturers can dissipate that much heat. I have seen an injector module from Ford, that I estimate would not be able to dissipate more than 20W (at 125C ambient), so there must be something else I am missing here. Does anyone have a number of the power dissipation of a typical peak and hold injector module? (4A peak, 1A hold, 8 injectors). mrvette wrote: >IF I read your analysis correctly....you forgot that is a 4 cycle engine...so the on time is only ~40% on a real time basis....NO? GENE Jose Rodriguez wrote: > > I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. Thanks in advance for your answers! > > The current specs I have are: > > Eight injectors. > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. > Duty cycle: up to 80..85% > Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C > Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. > > I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) > > First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = 6V. > Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous power thru injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. > The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average power over one cycle will be much less. > > One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty cycle). > In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. > Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst power at injector: (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). > > Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. > > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). > > As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heatsink's surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would mean the thermal resistance from the heatsink to ambient would be (150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heatsink doing that, without the need for forced cooling. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 12:38:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16822 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:38:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16813 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:38:16 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.11] (p11.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.11]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA03336 for mail_from ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:29:02 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:29:02 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >IF I read your analysis correctly....you forgot that is a 4 cycle engine...so >the on time is only ~40% on a real time basis....NO? GENE > >Jose Rodriguez wrote: >> >> I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to >>see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that >>all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty >>cycle. Thanks in advance for your answers! >> >> The current specs I have are: >> >> Eight injectors. >> Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) >> Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. >> Duty cycle: up to 80..85% >> Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C >> Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. >> >> I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to >>dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% >>OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) >> >> First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's >>output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = >>6V. >> Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous >>power thru injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. >> The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average >>power over one cycle will be much less. >> >> One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be >>dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty >>cycle). >> In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would >>be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. >> Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst power at injector: >>(1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). >> >> Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the >>initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average >>power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average >>power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. >> >> If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum >>average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would >>be (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the >>power dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). >> >> As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient >>of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heatsink's >>surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would >>mean the thermal resistance from the heatsink to ambient would be >>(150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heatsink doing that, >>without the need for forced cooling. > >-- > > > ____________ >Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ >Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ > /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ > /| /______\____/______\ |\ > (( | / | | \ | )) > Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | > Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| > Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | > |~==============================~| > |_____| |_____| >------------------------------------------------------------------- Depending on how universally applicable you want your driver board to be, you might want to consider what would happen to the driver power dissipation if it were to be applied to the same injectors at the same peak and hold current levels, but powered from a (nominal) 24 v. electrical system. You may also want to consider that there is much unexplored potential for better BSFC in using two sets of staged injectors, neither of which exceeds about a 25% to 30% duty cycle (the length of the intake stroke on a four cycle engine). The primary set needs to provide enough flow for about 50% more than cruising power (at a 25% duty cycle); the second enough flow to get the rest of the way to maximum power (at the same 25% duty cycle). With this kind of s set-up, the primaries would be plenty small enough to give truly repeatable flow at idle. I have been giving very serious consideration to building an engine with this kind of a set-up, with the additional twiddle of putting the primary injectors in something like a BG "venturi fuel injection" (four barrel) body. Each (of the four) primary injectors would then be called upon to perform TWO (up to) 25% duty cycle squirts (net 50% duty cycle for each injector) every two engine revolutions. (Fire the injector closest to the runner drawing mixture at the time.) The purpose of these gymnastics is intended to be to take advantage of the graealy inproved fuel atomization available at light loads from a set-up like the BG venturi body. I would suggest that anyone who doubts the positive impact of better fuel atomization on BSFC (Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, or units of fuel consumed in order to produce a unit of work--it relates directly to fuel mileage) take a look at dyno BSFC numbers on an engine run with Weber DCOE or IDA type carbs vs. the same engine run with different carbs or port injectors at the same power levels. The idea of getting to a shorter duty cycle on the secondary (port) injectors is pointed in the same direction: Don't vaporize (quite a distinct process from "atomize") the fuel by cooling parts in the intake port (that's what the cooling system is for). Get (most of) the atomized droplets of liquid fuel into the cylinder where their (heat of) vaporization can absorb some of the heat of compression during the compression stroke, thus improving net output and BSFC and allowing a higher compression ratio (for still more power and still better BSFC) and/or better fuel tolerance. I didn't mean for this to turn into a lecture or speach. I'm new here :). So far I find myself wishing I had even a third of the knowlege I've seen demonstrated about the electronic side of things, and so I'm here primarily to learn. However, meanwhile, if I may contribute a little perspective as to what we're all trying to get the electronics to do for us, I'm willing to try to contribute that if you all are willing to listen. Glad to meetcha, Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 12:47:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17049 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:47:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17044 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:46:59 -0400 Received: from bert (bert [131.204.46.47]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA21382 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:46:56 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:46:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" X-Sender: gparmer@bert To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Jose Rodriguez wrote: > I am designing an injector driver module. If you haven't do so already, you should compare your design to the EFI332 one at http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/efi332/hardware.html > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum A few more quick thoughts. GENE already pointed out that for a 4cycle engine you're talking about half of 85%. Also, I think most OEM port injectors have a higher resistance (15+ ohms?). This makes your power consumption figures look **much** better. Also, mounting your module in the car interior as most OEMs do helps your underhood heat problem. When's the prototype scheduled? :) -greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 13:15:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA17613 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:15:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns.felk.cvut.cz (ns.felk.cvut.cz [147.32.80.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA17609 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:15:35 -0400 Received: from waltz.felk.cvut.cz (root@waltz.felk.cvut.cz [147.32.84.2]) by ns.felk.cvut.cz (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA01952 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:15:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from thor.felk.cvut.cz (dial-336-7.felk.cvut.cz [147.32.80.87]) by waltz.felk.cvut.cz (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA25379 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:15:32 +0200 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:09:58 +0000 (GMT) From: pisa X-Sender: pisa@thor.felk.cvut.cz To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Ask for engine models Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Everybody, I am working as postgraduate student on some project related to engine management and I will be very pleased, if somebody can advice me some good articles and URLs about engine models. Matlab and simulink models will be great too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- What we have already done : We have designed ignition control with 80C552 processor. All parameters and maps can be changed from on-board portable PC. Values of actual pressure, RPM, temperature etc. can be read and stored on HD and then analyzed. Our prototype was tested for 6 months on Skoda Forman car. Czech company Magneton is testing this prototype on city bus reconstructed for methane gas. Our actual research goal is optimization of engine cycle on road. We wanted to measure engine torque. This is little problematic, it means to cut some shaft and add tensometric torque sensor. So we decided to try measure cylinder pressure and reconstruct P-V diagram, torque and effectiveness. We have drill hole into one cylinder. We are relatively poor, so we have decided to try design our own pressure piezoelectric sensor. We are waiting now, if it can work ???? If it will, I will announce it construction to everybody interested in it. We are thinking about 68376 for future projects. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, I need some good engine model. If you have seen good one, say me about it, please. Thank in advance Pavel Pisa pisa@cmp.felk.cvut.cz PS: Please CC reply to my e-mail too. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 13:39:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18037 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:39:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18033 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:39:46 -0400 From: AL8001@aol.com Received: from AL8001@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7NYBa12329 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:39:10 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Bosch Help Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-08-10 11:38:48 EDT, jpl@vectorbd.com writes: > hunting for any Bosch info beyond what is in books like Bosch's own, >Probst's, and Watson's. I have a webpage going with a lot of what I've >found so far at http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/bosch.html I'm mostly >looking for earlier stuff like L-Jet, LH-Jet, EZK Ignition. Try this area, look at the bottom of the page http://www.students.tut.fi/~k124775/Alfa.html From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 13:40:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18055 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:40:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18051 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:40:15 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-22.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.40]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id NAA05661 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:40:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e601bdc486$68798ca0$28198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:43:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum 20 Pages out of 145, 145 pages is for one bin file?. Cheers Bruce Being a novice it was one of my first finds for 165 ecm. >>> >>> Vance >> So where's a guy to go to >>learn more? >> >>Shannen >> >>Hi Shannen > > Easy - nooo!! If your learning it's actaully vverry boring. Kinda like >watching paint dry. Have to really want to do the work. In my file have >only commented about 20 pages, about 145 to finish that one file. Do that work in winter evening when rhere is nothing else to tinker with. > > A good start would be the pink motorola book for 68hc11. There has been >recent post about source for it. > >Vance > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 13:43:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18110 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:43:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18106 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:43:29 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-129-25.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.129.25]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20352 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CF30F5.2A34ABFF@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:42:13 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well all modern DPFI systems seem to use 16 ohm injectors....not 1.5-2 ohm...and the older ones used a peak-hold driver? some such variance...I'm not sure of the term anymore...been a while....GENE Jose Rodriguez wrote: > > Gene, thanks for your response. > How did you obtain the ~40% number? Was that by doing (0.5)*(0.85)=42.5%? > > Even if I use 40% instead of 85%, I am still in trouble. Power per driver (at 16V) is (14.5W)*(0.4) = 5.8W; total for eight injector drivers: 46.4W. > > I just can not see how the OEM manufacturers can dissipate that much heat. I have seen an injector module from Ford, that I estimate would not be able to dissipate more than 20W (at 125C ambient), so there must be something else I am missing here. > > Does anyone have a number of the power dissipation of a typical peak and hold injector module? (4A peak, 1A hold, 8 injectors). > > mrvette wrote: > >IF I read your analysis correctly....you forgot that is a 4 cycle engine...so > the on time is only ~40% on a real time basis....NO? GENE > > Jose Rodriguez wrote: > > > > I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. Thanks in advance for your answers! > > > > The current specs I have are: > > > > Eight injectors. > > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > > Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. > > Duty cycle: up to 80..85% > > Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C > > Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. > > > > I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) > > > > First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = 6V. > > Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous power thru injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. > > The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average power over one cycle will be much less. > > > > One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty cycle). > > In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. > > Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst power at injector: (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). > > > > Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. > > > > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). > > > > As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heatsink's surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would mean the thermal resistance from the heatsink to ambient would be (150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heatsink doing that, without the need for forced cooling. -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 13:44:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18159 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:44:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18155 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:44:44 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-129-25.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.129.25]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20590 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:44:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CF3143.B56AFA8E@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:43:31 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module References: <199808101603.JAA03994@mozart.bcit.bc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Can't, the variation between ijectors performance would vary greatly...... peter paul fenske wrote: > > Howday > > Try running the injectors in series parallel arrangement. > > later:peter > > At 09:12 AM 8/6/98 -0700, you wrote: > > I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to see > if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that all eight > injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. Thanks in > advance for your answers! > > > > The current specs I have are: > > > > Eight injectors. > > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > > Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. > > Duty cycle: up to 80..85% > > Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C > > Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. > > > > I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to > dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% OF > THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) > > > > First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's > output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = 6V. > > Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous power > thru injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. > > The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average power > over one cycle will be much less. > > > > One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be dissipated > between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty cycle). > > In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would be > (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. > > Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst power at injector: > (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). > > > > Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the initial > 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average power for > each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average power for each > injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. > > > > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum average > power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be > (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power > dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). > > > > As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient of > 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heatsink's > surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would mean > the thermal resistance from the heatsink to ambient would be (150-125)/98.6 > = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heatsink doing that, without the need > for forced cooling. > > > > > > > > > > -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 13:47:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18262 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:47:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18258 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:47:36 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:47:13 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Injector Driver Module Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:47:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm working on an injector driving module also. If you are going to fire the injectors sequentially, then one injector would be on at a time in the firing order sequence (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 GM V-8) If you are going to batch fire the injectors Then only 4 would be on at a time. The factory heat sinks on the driver transistors are not that big so I doubt that the power dissipated is very high. The duty cycle is a combination of on time and off time, so even at 85% the injector would Only be on for less than half of the time. The frequency of the injector pulse needs to be known, at 6000 rpm the ignition pulses are 400 HZ. I would guess that the injector pulses would be the same frequency for sequential firing and half of that for batch firing. So far my bench setup is a batch fire with 2msec on time at idle and 10 msec at wot. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks Don -----Original Message----- From: Jose Rodriguez [SMTP:JRodriguez@impcotechnologies.com] Sent: Thursday, August 06, 1998 11:12 AM To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Injector Driver Module I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, to see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. Thanks in advance for your answers! The current specs I have are: Eight injectors. Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. Duty cycle: up to 80..85% Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need to dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the driver's output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = (14-8) = 6V. Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous power through injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average power over one cycle will be much less. One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty cycle). In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage would be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst. power at injector: (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood ambient of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heat sink's surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that would mean the thermal resistance from the heat sink to ambient would be (150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heat sink doing that, without the need for forced cooling. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 14:17:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18667 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:17:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18662 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:16:57 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-129-161.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.129.161]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27510 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:16:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CF38D2.94EC2CFB@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:15:46 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Say what? at 6000 rpm.....ign. pulses are 100 hz....and so are injector pulses in sequential......if batch it's dviided by 4 not the pulse width, but the rate.....GENE Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com wrote: > > I'm working on an injector driving module also. If you are going to fire > the injectors sequentially, then one injector would be on at a time in the > firing order sequence (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 GM V-8) If you are going to batch > fire the injectors > Then only 4 would be on at a time. The factory heat sinks on the driver > transistors are not that big so I doubt that the power dissipated is very > high. The duty cycle is a combination of on time and off time, so even at > 85% the injector would > Only be on for less than half of the time. The frequency of the injector > pulse needs to be known, at 6000 rpm the ignition > pulses are 400 HZ. I would guess that the injector pulses would be the same > frequency for sequential firing and half of that for batch firing. So far > my bench setup is a batch fire with 2msec on time at idle and 10 msec at > wot. Any advice would be appreciated. > > > Thanks Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jose Rodriguez [SMTP:JRodriguez@impcotechnologies.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 06, 1998 11:12 AM > To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Injector Driver Module > > I am designing an injector driver module. I would like your input, > to see if my calculations are correct, particularly in my assumption that > all eight injectors could be on at the same time, for up to 85% duty cycle. > Thanks in advance for your answers! > > The current specs I have are: > > Eight injectors. > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > Injector current: 4A peak, 1A hold. > Duty cycle: up to 80..85% > Operating ambient temp: -40C..125C > Operating voltage: 4.5V to 16V. > > I did some calculations, to estimate how much power would I need > to dissipate, worst case, ASSUMING ALL EIGHT INJECTORS COULD BE ON, FOR 85% > OF THE TIME (is this assumption correct?) > > First, I set Vbatt=14V. In order to have 4A circulating, the > driver's output voltage would be (14-4*1.5)=8V. Injector's coil voltage = > (14-8) = 6V. > Instantaneous power at the driver: (8V)*(4A) = 32W. Instantaneous > power through injector's coil: (6V)*(4A) = 24W. > The 4A will only circulate for a brief period of time, so average > power over one cycle will be much less. > > One amp, sustaining, automatically means (14*1)=14W have to be > dissipated between the injector driver and the injector coil (100% duty > cycle). > In order to have the 1A sustaining, the driver's output voltage > would be (14-1*1.5)=12.5V. Injector's voltage =(14-12.5) = 1.5V. > Inst. power at driver: (12.5V)*(1A) = 12.5W. Inst. power at > injector: (1.5V)*(1A) = 1.5W. (total=14W, as predicted). > > Thus, since the Duty Cycle can be up to 85%, and disregarding the > initial 4A power peak, and the switching power losses, then the average > power for each injector driver is (12.5W)*(0.85) = 10.625W. The average > power for each injector coil is (1.5W)*(0.85)=1.275W. > > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum > average power at Vbatt=14V (again, disregarding some power losses) would be > (8)*(10.625W) = 85W at the injector driver side. Obviously, at 16V the power > dissipation would be higher (98.6W!). > > As you can imagine, dissipating 98.6W+ into an under-the-hood > ambient of 125C, with no expected air flow, is a formidable task. The heat > sink's surface temperature should not be allowed to go above 150C; that > would mean the thermal resistance from the heat sink to ambient would be > (150-125)/98.6 = 0.25C/W. I can not see any feasible heat sink doing that, > without the need for forced cooling. > > -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 14:22:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA18849 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:22:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from impcotechnologies.com ([208.229.106.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA18845 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:22:52 -0400 Received: from IMPCO#u#Cerritos-Message_Server by impcotechnologies.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:23:51 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:17:53 -0700 From: "Jose Rodriguez" To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id OAA18846 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for your response, Greg. I have looked at the EFI332 design, but I have not been able to find any info on the injector driver's design other that they use National's injector driver IC, and some other electronic parts. That does not help me a lot, since the power dissipation on the injector driver, using a peak and hold driver, is not dependant upon the driver IC itself, but on the system voltage, the hold current, duty cycle, and the injector coil's resistance. There are mainly two types of injector coils: the saturated and the peak-and-hold ones. The saturated coils typically have 16 ohms resistance and yes, if I used them the power dissipation would be greatly reduced on the injector driver side, specially since I could saturate my drivers, so the power would be negligible. If most OEM coils are saturated, that would explain why they can do it with such small heatsinks. I wish I could put the module in the interior, but that is not an option. Unfortunately, I am currently being forced to use the peak and hold coils (1.5..2.3 ohms), because the injectors are to deliver a very high mass flow, and work over -40..125C. I am told the saturated coils can not reliably work under those conditions. The prototype schedule, as you might have guessed, is for Yesterday. :-( >>> "Gregory A. Parmer" 08/10/98 09:46AM >>> On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Jose Rodriguez wrote: > I am designing an injector driver module. If you haven't do so already, you should compare your design to the EFI332 one at http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/efi332/hardware.html > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum A few more quick thoughts. GENE already pointed out that for a 4cycle engine you're talking about half of 85%. Also, I think most OEM port injectors have a higher resistance (15+ ohms?). This makes your power consumption figures look **much** better. Also, mounting your module in the car interior as most OEMs do helps your underhood heat problem. When's the prototype scheduled? :) -greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 14:39:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:39:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19339 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:39:24 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:39:01 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Injector Driver Module Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:38:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu One thing I forgot to mention is that when a power transistor is turned on the voltage drop across the transistor is around .7 to 1.5 volts. The V drop * current is the power dissipation. 1.5v*1 Amp = 1.5 watts. Since the injector is typically 16 ohms most of the voltage drop and dissipation is in the injector. 16 volts*1 amp = 16 watts. With a low resistance injector the majority of power is still dissipated in the injector and not the driver transistor. Take care Don -----Original Message----- From: Gregory A. Parmer [SMTP:gparmer@acesag.auburn.edu] Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 11:47 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, Jose Rodriguez wrote: > I am designing an injector driver module. If you haven't do so already, you should compare your design to the EFI332 one at http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/efi332/hardware.html > Injector coil resistance: 1.5 ohms (it could also be 2.3 ohms) > If all 8 injectors could be on 85% of the time, then the maximum A few more quick thoughts. GENE already pointed out that for a 4cycle engine you're talking about half of 85%. Also, I think most OEM port injectors have a higher resistance (15+ ohms?). This makes your power consumption figures look **much** better. Also, mounting your module in the car interior as most OEMs do helps your underhood heat problem. When's the prototype scheduled? :) -greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 15:11:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20069 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:11:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20065 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:11:55 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm4-156.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.156]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA00310 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35CF469D.7906D6D7@mcn.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:14:38 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module References: <35CF38D2.94EC2CFB@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Which pulses were we discussing? 6000 RPM=100 cps, but takes 2 crank revs to fire 8 cylinders. So, each plug wire fires 50times/sec, and coil or coil wire is 400 (50*8) times/second. Also, during synchronous firing, one primary side coil pulse=one injector pulse. With 8 injectors tied together, is 400hz. Split into two banks of four, is 200hz each. Sequential is 50hz each. mrvette wrote: > > Say what? at 6000 rpm.....ign. pulses are 100 hz....and so are injector pulses > in sequential......if batch it's dviided by 4 not the pulse width, but the > rate.....GENE > > Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com wrote: > > > > I'm working on an injector driving module also. If you are going to fire > > the injectors sequentially, then one injector would be on at a time in the > > firing order sequence (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 GM V-8) If you are going to batch > > fire the injectors > > Then only 4 would be on at a time. The factory heat sinks on the driver > > transistors are not that big so I doubt that the power dissipated is very > > high. The duty cycle is a combination of on time and off time, so even at > > 85% the injector would > > Only be on for less than half of the time. The frequency of the injector > > pulse needs to be known, at 6000 rpm the ignition > > pulses are 400 HZ. I would guess that the injector pulses would be the same > > frequency for sequential firing and half of that for batch firing. So far > > my bench setup is a batch fire with 2msec on time at idle and 10 msec at > > wot. Any advice would be appreciated. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 15:27:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20356 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:27:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from impcotechnologies.com ([208.229.106.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20352 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:26:58 -0400 Received: from IMPCO#u#Cerritos-Message_Server by impcotechnologies.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:27:55 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:21:59 -0700 From: "Jose Rodriguez" To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id PAA20353 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Don, thanks for your reply. I am going to fire them sequentially, like you indicate below. Yes, I also see that the factory heatsinks on the driver transistors are not big, and that is what surprises me. The only explanation I have so far is that the injectors used by the OEM modules are the saturated type (16 ohms, and the driver is not working on the linear region, but saturated, and hence very little power is dissipated there). Unfortunately, I need to drive peak-and-hold injectors (1.5..2.3 ohms). Over the 360 crank degrees, the injectors will be fired approximately like this: #1 (0 degrees), #8 (45 deg), #4 (90), #3 (135), #6 (180), #5 (225), #7 (270), #2 (315). Every driver would be on up to 85% of the time, so no matter what the timing sequence is, every power driver will conduct the Hold current (1 amp) for 85% of the time, so the average power dissipated on the driver module box is: [ (Battery Voltage)-(Hold Current)*(Coil Resistance) ]*(Hold Current)*(Duty Cycle)*(number of injectors) = so assuming worst case (Maximum battery voltage): [ (16)-(1)*(1.5) ]*(1)*(0.85)*(8) = 98.6W! How much power is being dissipated in your module? >>> 08/10/98 10:47AM >>> I'm working on an injector driving module also. If you are going to fire the injectors sequentially, then one injector would be on at a time in the firing order sequence (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 GM V-8) If you are going to batch From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 15:44:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20677 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:44:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20671 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:44:26 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-131-133.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.131.133]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17483 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CF4D52.8122E78A@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:43:14 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module References: <35CF38D2.94EC2CFB@bellsouth.net> <35CF469D.7906D6D7@mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu your rite,,,,I screwed it up myself.....oh well.....GENE Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Which pulses were we discussing? 6000 RPM=100 cps, but > takes 2 crank revs to fire 8 cylinders. So, each plug wire > fires 50times/sec, and coil or coil wire is 400 (50*8) > times/second. Also, during synchronous firing, one primary > side coil pulse=one injector pulse. With 8 injectors tied > together, is 400hz. Split into two banks of four, is 200hz > each. Sequential is 50hz each. > > mrvette wrote: > > > > Say what? at 6000 rpm.....ign. pulses are 100 hz....and so are injector pulses > > in sequential......if batch it's dviided by 4 not the pulse width, but the > > rate.....GENE > > > > Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com wrote: > > > > > > I'm working on an injector driving module also. If you are going to fire > > > the injectors sequentially, then one injector would be on at a time in the > > > firing order sequence (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 GM V-8) If you are going to batch > > > fire the injectors > > > Then only 4 would be on at a time. The factory heat sinks on the driver > > > transistors are not that big so I doubt that the power dissipated is very > > > high. The duty cycle is a combination of on time and off time, so even at > > > 85% the injector would > > > Only be on for less than half of the time. The frequency of the injector > > > pulse needs to be known, at 6000 rpm the ignition > > > pulses are 400 HZ. I would guess that the injector pulses would be the same > > > frequency for sequential firing and half of that for batch firing. So far > > > my bench setup is a batch fire with 2msec on time at idle and 10 msec at > > > wot. Any advice would be appreciated. -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 16:16:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21345 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:16:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21341 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:16:44 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-34.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.34]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id NAA02699 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35CF5605.7A7D@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:20:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum References: <00e601bdc486$68798ca0$28198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > The inputs are, intake air temp, coolant emp, MAP, TPS, distributor > reference pulse, tranny 4th gear, park neutral switch, vss signal. > > The coolant temp/intake air temp are easy. > > Having something that reacts to TPS is another matter. > MAP is high, engine off, and then drops at engine run. > MAP varies with little with TPS, > High rpm, MAP is almost atmospheric like at start up. > > At 40 mph low tps have a 4th gear engaged signal, so ecm can > apply TCC. > > Would be nice to introduce an engine miss option at idle to see > what the ecm does about it. > > Having O2 feedback would be a nice option. Sudden change in > pulse width high O2. ********************************************************************** Intake air temp: What is the range of the sensor? Is tempco positive or negative? IOW, does resistance go up or down as temp goes up? What voltage does the ECU apply to the sensor? (Disconnect the sensor and measure across the ECU terminals.) Coolant temp: Likewise. MAP: 0-5V, 1 bar is 5V approx. Correct? TPS: 0-5V, throttle closed to WOT. Yes? Dist. ref pulse: How many pulses per rev? Amplitude? (5V?) When does it occur? (TDC?) 4th gear switch: Is it a switch? How many wires go to it? neutral/park sw: Ditto. VSS: What is it? TCC: What is it? O2 sensor: Conventional O2 sensors put out 0-1 V. Is this the input to the ECU? What is the max rate of change of engine rpm? What kind of PC do you have? Hang with me on this. I know its a pain, but I can't read your mind. This way you get what you want instead of what I think you want. Regards, Jack From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 16:19:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21408 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:19:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21404; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:19:47 -0400 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id IAA03810; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:19:46 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ppp117.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.117) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma003790; Tue, 11 Aug 98 08:19:17 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980811082054.00a06d10@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 08:20:54 +1200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 11:17 AM 8/10/98 -0700, Jose Rodriguez wrote: > There are mainly two types of injector coils: the saturated and the peak-and-hold ones. > The saturated coils typically have 16 ohms resistance and yes, if I used them the power dissipation would be greatly reduced on the injector driver side, specially since I could saturate my drivers, so the power would be negligible. > > If most OEM coils are saturated, that would explain why they can do it with such small heatsinks. I wish I could put the module in the interior, but that is not an option. > > Unfortunately, I am currently being forced to use the peak and hold coils (1.5..2.3 ohms), because the injectors are to deliver a very high mass flow, and work over -40..125C. I am told the saturated coils can not reliably work under those conditions. I thought I saw somewhere a circuit which generated the hold current by PWM of the injector current, so the drivers were always saturated or off. I cannot remeber where I saw it, or whether it just used the internal iductance of the injector, or an extra external inductor. regards, Mike From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 16:21:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21484 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:21:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@frapp.wolfe.net [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21478 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:21:43 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05599 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:21:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id NAA16893 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808102021.NAA16893@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:21:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Jose Rodriguez" at Aug 10, 98 11:17:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Thanks for your response, Greg. > I have looked at the EFI332 design, but I have not been able to find any info on the injector driver's design other that they use National's injector driver IC, and some other electronic parts. > That does not help me a lot, since the power dissipation on the injector driver, using a peak and hold driver, is not dependant upon the driver IC itself, but on the system voltage, the hold current, duty cycle, and the injector coil's resistance. Find the datasheet on the National part (LM1949). It has a section on power dissipation including how to use it as a switching driver. The tradeoff is you end up generating lots of RFI. They claim a fourfold reduction in power dissipation in the power transistor in their tests. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 16:23:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21566 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:23:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@frapp.wolfe.net [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21561 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:23:23 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05908 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:23:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id NAA17110 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808102023.NAA17110@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:23:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com" at Aug 10, 98 12:47:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Then only 4 would be on at a time. The factory heat sinks on the driver > transistors are not that big so I doubt that the power dissipated is very > high. The duty cycle is a combination of on time and off time, so even at > 85% the injector would > Only be on for less than half of the time. The frequency of the injector > pulse needs to be known, at 6000 rpm the ignition Nope, sorry, 85% duty cycle means on 85% of the time, off 15% of the time. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 16:25:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21655 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:25:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp4.ny.us.ibm.COM (smtp4.ny.us.ibm.com [198.133.22.43]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21649 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:25:12 -0400 Received: from relay2.server.ibm.com (relay2.server.ibm.com [9.14.2.99]) by smtp4.ny.us.ibm.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA68844 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:15:02 -0400 Received: from US.IBM.COM (d03lms05.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.80.15]) by relay2.server.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA41242 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:19:15 -0400 Received: by US.IBM.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 3.0) with snapi via D03AU047 id 5030050017524930; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:26:06 -0400 From: Kevin Vannorsdel To: Subject: Ignition Problem (sorta related) Message-ID: <5030050017524930000002L502*@MHS> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:26:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id QAA21652 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a tad off-topic..... but may still be of interest. My VW motor (OK- engine) has this problem that it only runs decent if I pull a few of the spark plug wires out of the dist cap a bit... actually- it only runs good when I pull it out far enough that it starts arching from the cap to the wire... If I make a good snug electrical connection... the cylinder never fires (and the bug runs real crummy) I am sure this is a common problem and must have something to do with the voltage built up by the coil... can anyone comment...? Maybe off-line is best since this is not directly EFI. Thanks for the bandwidth. KV. ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 16:42:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA22189 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:42:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA22179 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:42:27 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:42:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Injector Driver Module Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:42:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I got the spark info from the 2nd edition bosch handbook . spark rate per min = 8cyl.* 6000 RPM/2=24000 sparks per min24000/60=400sparks per second. Or if you don't like that formula Frequency = 8 cyl *6000 rpm/120 = 400 HZ These pulses would be on the TACH terminal of the coil. Don -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey [SMTP:Shannen@mcn.net] Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 2:15 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Which pulses were we discussing? 6000 RPM=100 cps, but takes 2 crank revs to fire 8 cylinders. So, each plug wire fires 50times/sec, and coil or coil wire is 400 (50*8) times/second. Also, during synchronous firing, one primary side coil pulse=one injector pulse. With 8 injectors tied together, is 400hz. Split into two banks of four, is 200hz each. Sequential is 50hz each. mrvette wrote: > > Say what? at 6000 rpm.....ign. pulses are 100 hz....and so are injector pulses > in sequential......if batch it's dviided by 4 not the pulse width, but the > rate.....GENE > > Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com wrote: > > > > I'm working on an injector driving module also. If you are going to fire > > the injectors sequentially, then one injector would be on at a time in the > > firing order sequence (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 GM V-8) If you are going to batch > > fire the injectors > > Then only 4 would be on at a time. The factory heat sinks on the driver > > transistors are not that big so I doubt that the power dissipated is very > > high. The duty cycle is a combination of on time and off time, so even at > > 85% the injector would > > Only be on for less than half of the time. The frequency of the injector > > pulse needs to be known, at 6000 rpm the ignition > > pulses are 400 HZ. I would guess that the injector pulses would be the same > > frequency for sequential firing and half of that for batch firing. So far > > my bench setup is a batch fire with 2msec on time at idle and 10 msec at > > wot. Any advice would be appreciated. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 16:42:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA22190 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:42:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@frapp.wolfe.net [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA22184 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:42:31 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA09058 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:42:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id NAA18623 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:42:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199808102042.NAA18623@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:42:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Gregory A. Parmer" at Aug 10, 98 11:46:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > A few more quick thoughts. GENE already pointed out that for a 4cycle > engine you're talking about half of 85%. Also, I think most Type of engine 2/4 stroke is irrelevant. You can inject fuel into the intake port at any point in the cycle and for however long you want, as long as you get all the fuel needed injected between say the intake valve closing in one intake cycle and it closing in the next intake cycle (an arbitrary point). This time is what you have to inject your fuel. It's just a time period. 2/4 stroke doesn't matter. You could use all of it if the injectors would let you and didn't have the 85% rule of thumb max. on time. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 17:22:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23205 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:22:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23200 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:22:54 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-244.nordson.com [207.206.59.244]) by users.qual.net (8.9.0/8.9.0/QualNet) with SMTP id RAA18255 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:22:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <03e101bdc4a4$0f5262a0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Ignition Problem (sorta related) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:15:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Your plugs or wires are leaking voltage to ground which prevents enough voltage buildup to jump the plug gap. When you pull the wires a little, no voltage gets to the wires or plugs until a spark jumps the wire to cap gap. At that point there is enough voltage to also jump the plug gap. Install new plugs and wires. Gary Derian -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Vannorsdel To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 4:48 PM Subject: Ignition Problem (sorta related) > > This is a tad off-topic..... but may still be of interest. > > >My VW motor (OK- engine) has this problem that it only runs decent if I pull a >few of the spark plug wires out of the dist cap a bit... actually- it only >runs good when I pull it out far enough that it starts arching from the cap to >the wire... > >If I make a good snug electrical connection... the cylinder never fires (and >the bug runs real crummy) > >I am sure this is a common problem and must have something to do with the >voltage built up by the coil... can anyone comment...? Maybe off-line is best >since this is not directly EFI. > >Thanks for the bandwidth. > >KV. > > >________________________________________________ > Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development > 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 17:27:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23308 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:27:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23304 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:27:02 -0400 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id JAA08998; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:27:00 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ppp117.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.117) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma008990; Tue, 11 Aug 98 09:26:53 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980811092832.008dc5c0@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 09:28:32 +1200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Ignition Problem (sorta related) In-Reply-To: <5030050017524930000002L502*@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 04:26 PM 8/10/98 -0400, Kevin Vannorsdel wrote: > >My VW motor (OK- engine) has this problem that it only runs decent if I pull a >few of the spark plug wires out of the dist cap a bit... actually- it only >runs good when I pull it out far enough that it starts arching from the cap to >the wire... > >If I make a good snug electrical connection... the cylinder never fires (and >the bug runs real crummy) Normally this is a sign of fouled or shorted spark plugs (does your engione burn oil?). You can simulate the cure all the time by filing the end of the distributor rotor to give a gap of 1mm or so. regards, Mike From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 17:28:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:28:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23333 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:28:16 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:27:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Injector Driver Module Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:27:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jose' Thanks for the info you have posted, I need all the help I can get with my driver project. -----Original Message----- From: Jose Rodriguez [SMTP:JRodriguez@impcotechnologies.com] Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 2:22 PM To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Don, thanks for your reply. I am going to fire them sequentially, like you indicate below. Yes, I also see that the factory heatsinks on the driver transistors are not big, and that is what surprises me. The only explanation I have so far is that the injectors used by the OEM modules are the saturated type (16 ohms, and the driver is not working on the linear region, but saturated, and hence very little power is dissipated there). Unfortunately, I need to drive peak-and-hold injectors (1.5..2.3 ohms). Over the 360 crank degrees, the injectors will be fired approximately like this: #1 (0 degrees), #8 (45 deg), #4 (90), #3 (135), #6 (180), #5 (225), #7 (270), #2 (315). Every driver would be on up to 85% of the time, so no matter what the timing sequence is, every power driver will conduct the Hold current (1 amp) for 85% of the time, so the average power dissipated on the driver module box is: [ (Battery Voltage)-(Hold Current)*(Coil Resistance) ]*(Hold Current)*(Duty Cycle)*(number of injectors) = so assuming worst case (Maximum battery voltage): [ (16)-(1)*(1.5) ]*(1)*(0.85)*(8) = 98.6W! How much power is being dissipated in your module? >>> 08/10/98 10:47AM >>> I'm working on an injector driving module also. If you are going to fire the injectors sequentially, then one injector would be on at a time in the firing order sequence (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 GM V-8) If you are going to batch From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 17:41:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23671 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:41:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23667 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:41:24 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA08235 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:41:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199808102141.QAA08235@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny10-23.ix.netcom.com(207.94.105.87) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma008188; Mon Aug 10 16:40:38 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 04:01:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Open loop at WOT??? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <030601bdbf28$aa826030$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: "Gary Derian" > To: > Subject: Re: Open loop at WOT??? > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:49:31 -0400 > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The rev limiter is a little scary, i thought i lost it a few times. alex > The V-12 Mercedes engine originally ran rich for max power at WOT. It was > recalibrated to remain in closed loop at WOT to reduce emissions. The power > was reduced from 406 hp to 389. Top speed was still governed to 155 mph. > > I think warranty considerations cause most OEMs to set the fuel rich at WOT. > > Gary Derian > > -----Original Message----- > > > >Thanks for the response, Richard. I suspected that that might be part of > >it, but wasn't sure. I guess the OEMs don't think their cooling systems > are > >up to the task at consistent WOT? Or is it because detonation is more > >likely at WOT? > > > >At any rate, thank you for the answer. > > > >GR > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: richard vandervoort [SMTP:fastski@mailexcite.com] > >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 1998 2:06 PM > >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> Cc: george.reiswig@intel.com > >> Subject: Open loop at WOT??? > >> > >> The OEMs purposely run rich at WOT because the engine > >> runs cooler. Emission are not regulated and there > >> isn't any effect on MPG numbers since they do not use > >> WOT during fuel economy testing, so there isn't any > >> penalty for running rich. Someone has probably already answered this, > but > >> I couldn't find it in the archive. > >> > >> > >> Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! > >> http://www.mailexcite.com > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 17:43:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23720 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:43:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from seattle.3com.com (seattle.3com.com [129.213.128.97]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23716 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:43:20 -0400 From: Gorden_Jennings@3com.com Received: from new-york.3com.com (new-york.3com.com [129.213.157.12]) by seattle.3com.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA04822; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hqoutbound.ops.3com.com (hqoutbound.OPS.3Com.COM [139.87.48.104]) by new-york.3com.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA20203; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by hqoutbound.ops.3com.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 8825665C.00774D9D ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:43:06 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: 3COM To: KV@usa.ibm.com cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <8825665C.0075033C.00@hqoutbound.ops.3com.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:42:38 -0700 Subject: Ignition Problem (sorta related) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Back in my Enduro days this was a "known" trick among us riders to get a 2 Stroke Motor to fire after fouling a plug. Funny back then I always wondered what phenomenon was causing it. My WAG ( Wild Ass Guess ) is the voltage going across the plug gap will be higher because the coil now will have to store a higher voltage to over come the two gaps in series. The higher voltage punches through the gasoline and air making the carbon resistor on the insulator ( due to carbon fouling ) a higher resistance than the ionised fuel mixture. To the list, am I even close ??? Regards Gorden From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 17:56:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24066 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:56:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA24062 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:56:15 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA29430 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:56:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:59:19 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Bosch Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks... I've looked at that... in fact I have a link to it from my own L-Jet/Bosch page http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/bosch.html -Jim Lill http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 18:05:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24298 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:05:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24290 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:05:13 -0400 From: TWong29770@aol.com Received: from TWong29770@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv14_b1.1) id 7NBRa11436 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:02:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:02:31 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Ignition Problem (sorta related) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Funny Gorden, That old trick still works in todays modern two stroke motocrossers. We ride KTM big bores here in NM and sometimes because of altitudes we ride in the plug may sometimes foul. I just reach up and remove the plug wire and set it on the plug and kick it few times, sometimes it fires sometimes I have to replace the plug. The coil only applies as much voltage as is required to jump the gap, and yes it will require a little more to jump two gaps. The average coil in the end will only have so much on hand to meter out to jump the gaps, but within reason it will have ample voltage and current to jump a couple .060 gaps with relative ease. Tom Wong From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 18:08:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24393 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:08:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from impcotechnologies.com ([208.229.106.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA24388 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:08:34 -0400 Received: from IMPCO#u#Cerritos-Message_Server by impcotechnologies.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:09:29 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:04:01 -0700 From: "Jose Rodriguez" To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id SAA24389 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike, thanks for the response. Yes, there is the method of doing PWM to hold the injector current. And that solves the power dissipation problem. But it creates a HUGE problem with electromagnetic radiation (EMI), since the injector coil's current will be switched on/off, creating 6A peaks and big inductor spikes. In order to reduce the EMI, shielded cables, etc etc would be needed, that could make the module very expensive or not practical. Regards, Jose >>> Mike Morrin 08/10/98 01:20PM >>> At 11:17 AM 8/10/98 -0700, Jose Rodriguez wrote: > There are mainly two types of injector coils: the saturated and the peak-and-hold ones. > The saturated coils typically have 16 ohms resistance and yes, if I used them the power dissipation would be greatly reduced on the injector driver side, specially since I could saturate my drivers, so the power would be negligible. > > If most OEM coils are saturated, that would explain why they can do it with such small heatsinks. I wish I could put the module in the interior, but that is not an option. > > Unfortunately, I am currently being forced to use the peak and hold coils (1.5..2.3 ohms), because the injectors are to deliver a very high mass flow, and work over -40..125C. I am told the saturated coils can not reliably work under those conditions. I thought I saw somewhere a circuit which generated the hold current by PWM of the injector current, so the drivers were always saturated or off. I cannot remeber where I saw it, or whether it just used the internal iductance of the injector, or an extra external inductor. regards, Mike From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 18:19:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24580 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:19:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from erinet.com (mail2.erinet.com [207.0.229.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24575 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:19:12 -0400 Received: from default (dlp372.dayton.eri.net [207.90.117.117]) by erinet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA29850 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35CF71CE.4AE4@ERINet.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:18:54 -0400 From: Scott Schaaf X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Benching ecms References: <00ad01bdc3bf$cd735720$66198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > With both ecms "running" having the +5v for the sensors tied together > seems to generate "No Smoke". > > Next question, does this only work with both ecms powered up?. > Can I have them wired like this and be running only one at a time?. > Seems like there is enough internal resistance to the off ecm not > to hurt things, but I only did this momentarily. > > Would the real answer be using ganged pots?. I've tried looking in > my digi-key, and a couple other catalogs, but turned up no sources. > > When doing pulse generators, is it better to use a 558, and use a > 4017 for getting low rpm signals?. For those veiwing from afar > the reason is that I need to get accurate 200 rpm steps. The gms > from what I read do interpolation from one step to the next for > timing etc, so I gots to be close, to read changes accurately. > > Much more and it seems like a commercial used freguency generator > will be the answer. So if ya got a working gen please e-mail me. > > Thanks again > Bruce nacelp@bright.net I think you'll find that the 'ON' ECM will try to power the 'OFF' ECM. Not usually a good thing, considering that the 5v regs in the 'ON' ECM is not meant to supply that much current. Scott... From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 18:23:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24734 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:23:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24729 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:23:32 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:23:08 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Injector Driver Module Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:23:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Orin, According to Haynes techbook, fuel injection 1986-1996 (10220) "The duty cycle is the ratio of injector on- time to total on-and- off time. In other words, it's a variable % of one complete injector operating cycle" . 2msec on 1msec off Equals 3msec total injector time 2/3= 66% duty cycle. At high RPM the Pulse width (on time) will be say 10 to 20 msec then off about 5 msec 20 +5 = 25 complete cycle. 20 msec on time / 25 = 80% duty cycle . We need to know what rpm and what pulse width the on-off times will be. I still believe the switching transistors voltage drop (Vsat) Frequency of operation and current through the transistor will give you the heat that needs to be heat sinked. Just my .02 cents Don -----Original Message----- From: Orin Eman [SMTP:orin@wolfenet.com] Sent: Monday, August 10, 1998 3:23 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module > Then only 4 would be on at a time. The factory heat sinks on the driver > transistors are not that big so I doubt that the power dissipated is very > high. The duty cycle is a combination of on time and off time, so even at > 85% the injector would > Only be on for less than half of the time. The frequency of the injector > pulse needs to be known, at 6000 rpm the ignition Nope, sorry, 85% duty cycle means on 85% of the time, off 15% of the time. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 19:46:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25718 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:46:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25714 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:46:13 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-3.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.72]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id TAA22202 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:46:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e301bdc4b9$88673160$48198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:49:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: goflo@pacbell.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 4:52 PM Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum >Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> The inputs are, intake air temp, coolant emp, MAP, TPS, distributor >> reference pulse, tranny 4th gear, park neutral switch, vss signal. >> >> The coolant temp/intake air temp are easy. >> >> Having something that reacts to TPS is another matter. >> MAP is high, engine off, and then drops at engine run. >> MAP varies with little with TPS, >> High rpm, MAP is almost atmospheric like at start up. >> >> At 40 mph low tps have a 4th gear engaged signal, so ecm can >> apply TCC. >> >> Would be nice to introduce an engine miss option at idle to see >> what the ecm does about it. >> >> Having O2 feedback would be a nice option. Sudden change in >> pulse width high O2. > >********************************************************************** > >Intake air temp: What is the range of the sensor? -40dC to 100dC 100,700ohms at -40, to 185 ohms at 100dC > > Is tempco positive or negative? > IOW, does resistance go up or down > as temp goes up? Resistance goes down as temp goes up > > What voltage does the ECU apply to > the sensor? (Disconnect the sensor > and measure across the ECU terminals.) 5v > >Coolant temp: Likewise. Exactly the same as Intake air > >MAP: 0-5V, 1 bar is 5V approx. Correct? Engine off 4.9ish, idle like 2+, WOT slightly less than key on engine off > >TPS: 0-5V, throttle closed to WOT. Yes? In general .5v at idle, 4.8 WOT fine. > >Dist. ref pulse: How many pulses per rev? v-8, 4 v-6, 3 > Amplitude? (5V?) I've been using the voltage drop across a LED to the module as the rpm signal. > When does it occur? (TDC?) Base timing varies per application, 0-10d BTDC > >4th gear switch: Is it a switch? Yes > How many wires go to it? One grounded when applied. > >neutral/park sw: Ditto. One wire, grounded in gear. > >VSS: What is it? Vehicle Speed Sensor, 2000 pulses per mile. 12V > >TCC: What is it? Torque Converter Clutch, ecm grounds a solenoid to apply. > >O2 sensor: Conventional O2 sensors put out 0-1 V. Is this > the input to the ECU? Yes > >What is the max rate of change of engine rpm? 600-6000 rpm in 2 sec.s in first gear. > >What kind of PC do you have? IBM Comp. Windoze 98. > >Hang with me on this. I know its a pain, but I can't read your mind. >This way you get what you want instead of what I think you want. Very Kewl, no problems here Cheers Bruce > >Regards, Jack > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 19:56:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25838 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:56:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25833 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:56:50 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp47.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.177]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA07163 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:56:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35CF5CE3.2D616250@mwt.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:49:39 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ask for engine models References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Good luck on project . I was looking at those 1000 + buck sensors and noticed the short life they had , maybe they now have a longer life one . Wanted to build one with strain gauge and compensate for temp. with the temp comp. version . I also have torsion version of the strain gauge . Larson Hall Labs sell under or over etched gauges for a buck each and you can adjust the value by using a electric high speed drill and a qtip chucked up then dip in auto body leveling compound and buff till the desired resistance is achieved . Very much interested in your sensors results. Sorry bit off the EFI path . Steve pisa wrote: > Hi Everybody, > > I am working as postgraduate student on some project related > to engine management and I will be very pleased, if somebody can > advice me some good articles and URLs about engine models. > Matlab and simulink models will be great too. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > What we have already done : > > We have designed ignition control with 80C552 processor. > All parameters and maps can be changed from on-board > portable PC. Values of actual pressure, RPM, temperature etc. > can be read and stored on HD and then analyzed. > > Our prototype was tested for 6 months on Skoda Forman car. > Czech company Magneton is testing this prototype on > city bus reconstructed for methane gas. > > Our actual research goal is optimization of engine cycle on road. > We wanted to measure engine torque. This is little problematic, > it means to cut some shaft and add tensometric torque sensor. > So we decided to try measure cylinder pressure and reconstruct > P-V diagram, torque and effectiveness. We have drill hole into one cylinder. > We are relatively poor, so we have decided to try design our own > pressure piezoelectric sensor. We are waiting now, if it can work ???? > If it will, I will announce it construction to everybody interested in it. > > We are thinking about 68376 for future projects. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Again, I need some good engine model. > If you have seen good one, say me about it, please. > > Thank in advance > Pavel Pisa > pisa@cmp.felk.cvut.cz > > PS: Please CC reply to my e-mail too. From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 20:05:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25948 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:05:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25941; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:05:28 -0400 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id MAA21931; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 12:05:21 +1200 (NZST) Received: from ppp117.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.117) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma021908; Tue, 11 Aug 98 12:05:07 +1200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980811114752.008df690@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:47:52 +1200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 03:04 PM 8/10/98 -0700, Jose Rodriguez wrote: >Mike, thanks for the response. > > Yes, there is the method of doing PWM to hold the injector current. And that solves the power dissipation problem. > > But it creates a HUGE problem with electromagnetic radiation (EMI), since the injector coil's current will be switched on/off, creating 6A peaks and big inductor spikes. > > In order to reduce the EMI, shielded cables, etc etc would be needed, that could make the module very expensive or not practical. > You would have a much smaller EMI problem if you used an inductor on your driver pcb, with flywheel and smoothing so that the current to the injectors was DC. I suspect though that heatsinks are cheaper than inductors. regards, Miek From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 22:01:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27274 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:01:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27270 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:01:24 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (slip129-37-161-47.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.47]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA69020 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 02:01:20 GMT Message-ID: <35CFA645.2937@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:04:01 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition Problem (sorta related) References: <5030050017524930000002L502*@MHS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Kevin Vannorsdel wrote: > > This is a tad off-topic..... but may still be of interest. > > My VW motor (OK- engine) has this problem that it only runs decent if I pull a > few of the spark plug wires out of the dist cap a bit... actually- it only > runs good when I pull it out far enough that it starts arching from the cap to > the wire... > > If I make a good snug electrical connection... the cylinder never fires (and > the bug runs real crummy) > > I am sure this is a common problem and must have something to do with the > voltage built up by the coil... can anyone comment...? Maybe off-line is best > since this is not directly EFI. > > Thanks for the bandwidth. > > KV. > > ________________________________________________ > Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development > 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com sounds like bad plugs. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B ISP trouble again!!! I am now clare.snyder.on.ca@ibm.net Hopefully Snyder.on.ca will be back up soon Clare Snyder Waterloo, Ontario From diy_efi-owner Mon Aug 10 23:06:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27951 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:06:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27947 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:06:33 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.5] (p5.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.5]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA01098 for mail_from ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:57:19 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:57:19 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Ignition Problem (sorta related) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Funny Gorden, > >That old trick still works in todays modern two stroke motocrossers. We ride >KTM big bores here in NM and sometimes because of altitudes we ride in the >plug may sometimes foul. I just reach up and remove the plug wire and set it >on the plug and kick it few times, sometimes it fires sometimes I have to >replace the plug. > >The coil only applies as much voltage as is required to jump the gap, and yes >it will require a little more to jump two gaps. The average coil in the end >will only have so much on hand to meter out to jump the gaps, but within >reason it will have ample voltage and current to jump a couple .060 gaps with >relative ease. > >Tom Wong What's really going on here is that oil fouling on the plug is a conductor of sorts. If the oil leaks current too fast (faster than the rise rate of the coil can build voltage) the plug never fires. A second gap in the secondary circuit (prior to the one where you want the fire) prevents any charge from leaking across the fouled gap. When the spark jumps the first gap, you get a much faster voltage rise across the one in the hole than you would directly from the coil. "R' type plugs are built to do exactly this full time. If you doubt me, buy an R type plug, break it, and observe the gap in the center electrode! Yep, you get a lower voltage spark across the gap in the hole, but the faster rise rate is often enough to make it fire, even when it won't do so otherwise. Regards, Greg :) From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 11 00:00:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA28457 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:00:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bear.wattscc.org (root@1Cust28.tnt1.dfw3.da.uu.net [208.250.84.28]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28445 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:00:42 -0400 Received: from millenia ([192.168.1.14]) by bear.wattscc.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA13102 for ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:49:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199808110349.WAA13102@bear.wattscc.org> From: "Matt Watts" To: Subject: Bipolar Injectors Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:48:57 -0500 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <00e301bdc4b9$88673160$48198fd1@nacelp> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Here's one for you injector specialists... Standard fuel injectors are not bipolar right? Meaning that they will open regardless of which direction you apply the current. Does any known company manufacture a bipolar injector that, opens when current is applied in one directions and that is electrically slammed shut when the voltage is reverse? The reason that I ask is that I have a peek-hold-reverse solenoid driver circuit for this type of inductor that would in effect allow someone to push the injector over the magical 85% duty cycle with predictable (useable) results--probably closer to 94% in WOT applications. Always curious, Matt ____________ From diy_efi-owner Tue Aug 11 00:11:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA28525 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:11:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28521 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:11:14 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.5] (p5.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.5]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA03701 for mail_from ; Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:01:58 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:01:58 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Injector Driver Module Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Mike, thanks for the response. > > Yes, there is the method of doing PWM to hold the injector current. And >that solves the power dissipation problem. > > But it creates a HUGE problem with electromagnetic radiation (EMI), >since the injector coil's current will be switched on/off, creating 6A >peaks and big inductor spikes. > > In order to reduce the EMI, shielded cables, etc etc would be needed, >that could make the module very expensive or not practical. > > Regards, > >Jose > >>>> Mike Morrin 08/10/98 01:20PM >>> >At 11:17 AM 8/10/98 -0700, Jose Rodriguez wrote: >> There are mainly two types of injector coils: the saturated and the >peak-and-hold ones. >> The saturated coils typically have 16 ohms resistance and yes, if I used >them the power dissipation would be greatly reduced on the injector driver >side, specially since I could saturate my drivers, so the power would be >negligible. >> >> If most OEM coils are saturated, that would explain why they can do it >with such small heatsinks. I wish I could put the module in the interior, >but that is not an option. >> >> Unfortunately, I am currently being forced to use the peak and hold >coils (1.5..2.3 ohms), because the injectors are to deliver a very high >mass flow, and work over -40..125C. I am told the saturated coils can not >reliably work under those conditions. > >I thought I saw somewhere a circuit which generated the hold current by PWM >of the injector current, so the drivers were always saturated or off. I >cannot remeber where I saw it, or whether it just used the internal >iductance of the injector, or an extra external inductor. > >regards, > >Mike I don't care at all if it's more expensive, or harder to design (to avoid EMI problems). The PWM approach is really the only way to fly on drivers meant to run peak and hold injectors! >From an old racer's point of view: 1. I would want the @#$% thing designed to take a 100% duty cycle, plus about a 25 or 50% service factor. The injector drivers just shouldn't be one of the parts which has the potential to bring you to a stop. Period. 2. A PWM type driver (on a board which is designed to quiet things down and ground DC from the injector) could be completely programmable as to BOTH opening current and holding current, as well as to duration of the opening current. It could be programmed to let a jerk like me who wants to run a straight 24 volt electrical system simply program the thing to deal with it, rather than worry about the size of the heat sinks with a non-standard voltage. It would also let a body do some development work to see what opening and holding currents the injectors could really live with without coming apart or frying. 3. Now that I'm getting warmed up, the really cool approach would be to set the board up so that it feeds back to the CPU what the opening and holding currents are for control and correction. Of course, this would be a more stable control loop if the CPU were also looking at supply voltage and pre-adjusting injector PWM signals accordingly. Anyone want to make book on how many cold start problems would go away with this kind of an approach? 4. Why in @#$%^ would we have chosen to design a unit using a -332 based CPU if the objective was to be like Detroit and only be elegant at saving pennies? 5. On the duty cycle thing: there is only one way to see where you are. Multiply WOT horsepower per cylinder by expected BSFC (for the purposes of this calculation, use .5 lbs./BHP-hour for a naturally aspirated motor, .55 for a turbo motor, and .6 for a supercharged motor.) This will give you the required flow, in lbs. per hour required for each injector. Dividing this number by the rated flow of the injectors to be used will give you the duty cycle (% of real time that the injector must be open in order to flow enough fuel to make the power required. Period. 6. Since a high performance engine has a wider dynamic power range than a stocker,(bigger ratio of maximum power to minimum power) it necessarily needs a bigger turndown ratio on its injectors than a stocker (or it will have a soggy, lumpy, messy rich idle, (or fried pistons) among other things. 7. If anyone out there can make really decent power out of a motor, and als