From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 06:10:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:10:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11790 for diy_efi; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:10:01 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:10:01 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Message-Id: <199809011010.GAA11790@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. To post: Send to "[list name]@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 06:16:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11897 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:16:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from nhj.nlc.net.au (KWUvYvy7qepbswa3ZVKQkTuFCWyTdsaL@nhj.nlc.net.au [203.24.133.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA11889 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 06:16:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 10128 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1998 20:16:31 +1000 Received: from dialine25.nlc.net.au (HELO ants) (203.24.133.96) by nhj.nlc.net.au with SMTP; 1 Sep 1998 20:16:31 +1000 Received: by ants with Microsoft Mail id <01BDD5E5.29C62340@ants>; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:14:46 +1000 Message-ID: <01BDD5E5.29C62340@ants> From: ants To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: Renault F1 V10 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:14:34 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id GAA11893 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, All this talk about where injectors should go reminded me of a video I have. It's about the Renault F1 V10 engine. It's about the engine development Renault conducted for the Williams team back in '96. Anyway, there is a section which has the engine running on a dyno, and a close up of it showed what looked like the injectors sitting on top of the trumpets, spraying fluid into the trumpets. Amazing stuff, but they never explained why these injectors were positioned above the trumpets instead of the usual place. Viz: 10 trumpets and 10 injectors positioned above, complete with fuel rail. Note: I am assuming it was injecting fuel, as there were no other injectors I could see below the trumpets. Anyone want to take a guess? Ants. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 07:38:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA12926 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:38:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil (oasys.dt.navy.mil [130.46.1.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA12922 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:38:15 -0400 Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA24852; Tue, 1 Sep 98 07:38:14 EDT Message-Id: <35EBEAE1.17E9@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 07:39:03 -0500 From: Robert Gallant X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: efi335@hotmail.com Subject: Re: boost presser and power gain References: <19980831195035.19605.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > What interdependence is between boost presser and power gain? > If not turbo engine is 100 hp, what power growth will obtain by 2 bar > (absolute) boost? And how march reduction of compression ratio will > needed? > > If anyone has these formulas, please let me know! Here's the equations from the old book Street Supercharging. Pr = (Pa + Pb) / Pa Y = (Pr^.283) - 1 dTi = Y(T + 460) Note: adding 460 changes temp to deg Rankine. dTa = dTi / Ea Td = dTa + T Dr = Pr(T + 460)/(Td + 460) dTa = Actual temp increase dTi = Ideal temp increase due to increasing pressure Dr = Density ratio Ea = Adiabatic efficiency Pa = Atmospheric Pressure (14.7 psia) Pb = Boost Pressure (psig) Pr = Pressure Ratio T = Intake air temp in deg F Td = Discharge temp Here are some numbers as a check: Adiabatic effic = .68 Atmos Pressure = 14.7 psia Temperature = 80 F Boost Pressure = 8 psig Td = 183.9 F Dr = 1.295 Multiply unboosted HP by DR to get a rough guesstimate of boosted HP. Remember this is only a guesstimate!! It doesn't account for the HP required to turn the supercharger (-), the superchargers ability to overcome intake inefficiencies (+), ... If you want to see the effect of an intercooler just modify Td for the temp drop across the intercooler and Dr for the pressure drop across the intercooler. I don't have any advice about compression. I'm running a supercharged '86 Rx7 (roots type supercharger) with stock compression 9.4:1 at 11 psi of boost on 94 octane fuel, and 15 deg of timing retard. BTW: If anyone is interested, I put the equations into a MatLAB script. -- Rob MailTo:gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 07:52:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA13160 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:52:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA13156 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:52:38 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-218.nordson.com [207.206.59.218]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA18852 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005601bdd59e$f7ccdff0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: not dumb questions at all Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:51:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In my opinion, I think the Oberg injectors are just the ticket for a 2 stroke where you have to inject fuel after the exhaust port closes. On a 4 stroke, however, the gains will be small if any because there is ample time to mix during the compression stroke. Gary Derian >For something that impressed me as very much as being a peek into the >future, take a peek at the web site that Stuart Baly called our attention >to over the weekend, amid the smoke. "www.orbeng.com.au". Their stuff would >appear to offer the best yet. Their financial data appear to indicate that >people like Siemens, Daimler, and Bosch agree with this assessment. The >neatest thing about it is that I see no reason not to stab the Orbital air >assisted injectors (the actual fuel injectors, which, in turn, plug into >them, are standard stuff) into the existing bungs on an existing TPI >engine and go from there. One would have twice as many drivers, (one for >fuel injectors, one for air valves) but hey--I hear Sandy already has some >grey hairs! Orbital claims maximum droplet size of 8 microns coming out of >the injector. Obviously, if these units can direct inject, they are quick >enough to match injection with inhale in a TPI system without resorting to >staged injectors. The Orbital air injectors are in production in Michigan, >and available through the Mercury Marine parts system, as (that) Merc has >had engines (their DFI-200) in production using them for two years!!!!! >(All I know SO FAR!!) > >Anybody out there care to place a wager on how much improvement in: torque, >power, and BSFC would be seen with this type of a conversion on an >otherwise same TPI engine???? (Tom--I've got first dibs on any bets against >improvements.) > >Regards, Greg > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 08:07:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13366 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:07:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tmc6.astm.cmri.cmu.edu (TMC6.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.224.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13362 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:07:22 -0400 Received: by TMC6.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:06:45 -0400 Message-ID: <311B7EA14AAAD111B6AC0000C0E4A3CF0739BD@TMC6.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU> From: Michael Kasimirsky To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Renault F1 V10 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:06:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > All this talk about where injectors should go reminded me of > a video I have. It's about the Renault F1 V10 engine. > It's about the engine development Renault conducted for the > Williams team back in '96. First off, I would LOVE to see that video... Care to get in the video rental business? :-) Where did you get this video? I'd really like to get my hands on a copy of this. Can you see the throttle assemblies? I'd like to see the barrel throttles that are used on F1 engines. > Anyway, there is a section which has the engine running on a > dyno, and a close up of it showed what looked like the > injectors sitting on top of the trumpets, spraying fluid into > the trumpets. Amazing stuff, but they never explained why > these injectors were positioned above the trumpets instead of > the usual place. >From what I understand, the injectors are mounted in that location to try and improve the quality of the mixture. An F1 engine turns 17,000 rpm and consequently has very little time for injection of fuel and atomization of same. So they mount the injectors above the intake velocity stack to give the fuel some extra time and distance to get mixed with the incoming air. Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider FASTTRAX & WERA Novice #22 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports, Bridgestone, mtk@tmc.astm.cmri.cmu.edu Street & Competition, and AGV. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 08:10:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13410 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:10:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from uhura.concentric.net (uhura.concentric.net [206.173.119.93]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13406 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:10:19 -0400 Received: from cliff.concentric.net (cliff [206.173.119.90]) by uhura.concentric.net (8.8.8/(98/08/04 5.11)) id IAA14678; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:10:18 -0400 (EDT) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from crc3 (ts001d24.phm-pa.concentric.net [206.173.158.36]) by cliff.concentric.net (8.8.8) id IAA17394; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980831104030.0069ef50@pop3.cris.com> X-Sender: johnhess@pop3.cris.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:40:30 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, From: John Hess Subject: Re: Kalmaker In-Reply-To: <001001bdc66b$9d1a78c0$7a0365cb@holden> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu First of all, Kalmaker is not just software. It also has an emulator that plugs into the MEMCAL slot in the computer. It "talks" to this emulator via the ALDL port on your car. I have one on order (from TPIS) and hope to be able to tell you more about it at a later date. At 01:36 PM 8/13/98 +1000, Geoff & Sue Richards wrote: >Opinions wanted on Kalmaker software (any good?)What is real-time >programming? >If these questions are not applicable to group anybody point me to the right >archives or private >e-mail >Thanks >Geoff > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 08:21:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13554 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:21:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (leapfrog.almac.co.uk [193.114.248.81]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13550 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:21:21 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p54.scotland.net [148.176.232.54]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02986 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:20:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <348F1141.67CC4164@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:01:37 +0000 From: "Andrew W. Macfadyen" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 References: <01BDD5E5.29C62340@ants> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Might be something do with air velocity -- outside the trumpet the air velocity will be slower. It could also be some to with the cloud of fuel mist stand-off you always get around the entrance trumpets. ants wrote: > Hi all, > > All this talk about where injectors should go reminded me of a video I have. It's about the Renault F1 V10 engine. > It's about the engine development Renault conducted for the Williams team back in '96. > > Anyway, there is a section which has the engine running on a dyno, and a close up of it showed what looked like the injectors sitting on top of the trumpets, spraying fluid into the trumpets. Amazing stuff, but they never explained why these injectors were positioned above the trumpets instead of the usual place. > > Viz: 10 trumpets and 10 injectors positioned above, complete with fuel rail. > > Note: I am assuming it was injecting fuel, as there were no other injectors I could see below the trumpets. > > Anyone want to take a guess? > > Ants. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 08:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA13889 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:40:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from puce.one.net.au (puce.one.net.au [203.17.224.29]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA13885 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:40:25 -0400 Received: from holden ([203.101.3.90]) by puce.one.net.au (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with SMTP id AAB750E for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:39:08 +1000 Message-ID: <002801bdc782$8c4d6440$5a0365cb@holden> From: "Geoff & Sue Richards" To: "Diy_Efi" Subject: Where is everyone? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:53:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Has the list gone down? geoffsue@one.net.au http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/6724/ http://www2.one.net.au/~geoffsue If you have ICQ you can message me. My ICQ#:15292841 Like This Internet Resource? Click to Recommend-It (tm) From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 08:58:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14255 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:58:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14250 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:58:06 -0400 Received: from bert (bert [131.204.46.47]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA01848 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:58:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:58:04 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" X-Sender: gparmer@bert To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PROM Programmers In-Reply-To: <199809010235.TAA02586@mail.wgn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Sandy wrote: > Ok, I need to get a programmer that will burn Bipolar 82SXXX and 74SXXX > proms. Who has a low cost one that can toast the old Bipolar relics without > a multi-mega-dollar adapter board? Ya might ask the folks at General Device Instr if they've got a used dust collector. 2 programmers may be cheaper than 1 in this case. www.generaldevice.com -greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 09:17:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14758 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:17:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14754 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:17:48 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA26578 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:16:06 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:16:06 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: REALLY dumb question Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> For these reasons I've heard (unconfirmed rumours) that F1 cars >> heat the fuel to 300deg before injection. No droplets at all - all >> vapour. You can't argue with 900HP from 3L normally aspirated. >> >This sounds like the famous Pouge carburetor in the 1930's >would get over 100 mpg by vaporizing all the fuel >alex Another collorary of Marphy's Law: There's nothing new under the sun!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 09:19:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14829 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:19:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14823 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:19:48 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA26818 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:18:06 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:18:06 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: boost presser and power gain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >I'm non-commital on the subject of leather, discipline, etc, Greg. >Was hoping to concentrate on FI fundamentals....Of course mention >of fundaments will rile up some segments of the community... > >Regards, Jack Do tell---- Greg > >Greg Hermann wrote: >> A lot to be said for that prof's (nick-named "Black Bart") saying that >> "every engineering student who signs up for a class has the God given right >> to flunk it!" Do I finally get the fun of being on the other side of that >> one???? Will there be whips and leathers and chains involved??? From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 09:24:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14981 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:24:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14977 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:24:03 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-35.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.104]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id JAA22581 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:22:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001101bdd5ac$1bc92460$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:25:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Andrew W. Macfadyen To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 Also, might consider the fact that that stuff has almost nothing in common with what we think of as gasoline. Last quote I heard was that it was like $35 per liter. Also, extremely toxic. If ya can look at the breathing gear the refueler wears. Cheers Bruce >Might be something do with air velocity -- outside the trumpet the air velocity will be slower. >It could also be some to with the cloud of fuel mist stand-off you always get around the entrance trumpets. > >ants wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> All this talk about where injectors should go reminded me of a video I have. It's about the Renault F1 V10 engine. >> It's about the engine development Renault conducted for the Williams team back in '96. >> >> Anyway, there is a section which has the engine running on a dyno, and a close up of it showed what looked like the injectors sitting on top of the trumpets, spraying fluid into the trumpets. Amazing stuff, but they never explained why these injectors were positioned above the trumpets instead of the usual place. >> >> Viz: 10 trumpets and 10 injectors positioned above, complete with fuel rail. >> >> Note: I am assuming it was injecting fuel, as there were no other injectors I could see below the trumpets. >> >> Anyone want to take a guess? >> >> Ants. > > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 10:11:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01033 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:11:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01029 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:11:30 -0400 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA25315 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:11:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from quest ([143.114.72.6]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with SMTP id <0EYL00C7EZF410@lmco.com> for diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:11:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by quest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA27931; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:11:28 -0500 Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA17593; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:11:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:11:26 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: REALLY dumb question To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <35EC008E.9B4F2F3E@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199809010900.FAA11106@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > For these reasons I've heard (unconfirmed rumours) that F1 cars > > heat the fuel to 300deg before injection. No droplets at all - all > > vapour. You can't argue with 900HP from 3L normally aspirated. > > > This sounds like the famous Pouge carburetor in the 1930's > would get over 100 mpg by vaporizing all the fuel > alex I thought it was 200 mpg? Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 10:46:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05676 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:46:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05672 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:46:11 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:44:23 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: PROM Programmers Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:44:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a circuit for a 82S23 fuse link prom programmer that is easy to build. Since it is only 32 bits it doesn't take long to program. I also have a Data I/O 29A programmer that should handle your parts. I have spare 82S23 proms that I would program for you if you sent the address and data info. Take care Don -----Original Message----- From: Sandy [SMTP:sganz@wgn.net] Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 9:39 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: PROM Programmers Ok, I need to get a programmer that will burn Bipolar 82SXXX and 74SXXX proms. Who has a low cost one that can toast the old Bipolar relics without a multi-mega-dollar adapter board? Sandy From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 10:50:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05765 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05760 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:35 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA13692 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:50:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809011450.JAA13692@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny1-13.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.45) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013647; Tue Sep 1 09:50:05 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:07:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01BDD54C.6A379420@mg-20425422-78.ricochet.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Ignoring the issue of detonation, how ignitable are lean mixtures? Or > rather, how lean can you make the mixture and still be able to ignite > it? What if you allow for a seriously powerful ignition, and/or bump > the CR up a lot? It seems a bit weird to me that lean mixtures are > more prone to detonation (which indicates to me a mixture near > optimum, or near one of perhaps 2 optimums) and also considered to > be hard to ignite - or is that only at a *much* leaner A/F ratio? > I have heard reports of 26:1; If your engine is still running above 20:1 the extra air will prevent detonation. The Japaneese have production engines, I am not sure if used yet in states. This is one of the reasons for the development of the wide range O2 sensor. alex From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 10:50:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05771 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05767 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:50:41 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA13690 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:50:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809011450.JAA13690@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny1-13.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.45) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013647; Tue Sep 1 09:50:02 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 21:07:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: REALLY dumb question Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35EB8A83.22A4B2F8@mcn.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > More like infamous. > Ever hear of the "fish" (or some variation) carburetor? > Yes, do you still have your weird and strange carb. book of forgotten patents or something, I lost mine many moons ago. Warning to inventors on this list One of these inventors did a Jimmy Hoffa. GM rules. alex From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 11:02:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06158 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:02:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from post6.inre.asu.edu (post6.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.87]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06154 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:02:30 -0400 Received: from smtp1.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #24133) with ESMTP id <01J1A9T2E1RC9CGWK3@asu.edu> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:02:29 MST Received: from wiredev.asu.edu (wiredev.asu.edu [129.219.9.54]) by smtp1.asu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA24638 for <@smtp1.asu.edu:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:02:28 -0700 (MST) Received: (from falconer@localhost) by wiredev.asu.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA27742 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:00:34 -0700 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:00:34 -0700 From: Adrian Teo Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 In-reply-to: Bruce Plecan <"Re: Renault F1 V10"@asu.edu> (Sep 1, 9:25) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <9809010800.ZM27741@wiredev.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <001101bdd5ac$1bc92460$68198fd1@nacelp> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sep 1, 9:25, Bruce Plecan wrote: > Also, might consider the fact that that stuff has almost nothing > in common with what we think of as gasoline. Last quote I > heard was that it was like $35 per liter. Also, extremely toxic. > If ya can look at the breathing gear the refueler wears. ....hope you don't mind me interjecting... According to F1 regulations, the gasoline used in F1 cars is pump quality petrol and to be legal for use, has to be sold at the pump. Since no after-pump additives are allowed, this is usually 108 octane or better UNLEADED gasoline. The pit crew are so dressed not because of toxic fumes but for safety measures. There have been many a time where fuel ignites (due to some problem or otherwise) during pitstops. The breathing gear increases the crew member's surviability. ...anyway, back to the main discussion. Having had the opportunity to have seen/handled the Renault V10 RS6 and RS7 first hand, the injectors are so placed (along a rail above the throttle body stacks) for optimal A/F mix. These engines are designed to be operated in excess of 15000 rpm and hence to maximize the intake efficiency the intake stacks are very short. However higher RPM's also mean that the fast moving air has less time to mix with the fuel. Hence, the injectors are made to spray directly into the intake stack from a distance to allow the A/F charge to mix properly. Also, since these engines are hardly operated at part-throttle situations, the presence of the throttle plates downstream of the injectors do not cause that much fuel condensation... -AT -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Adrian Teo e-mail: adrian.teo@asu.edu System Administator Instruction Support, Arizona State University Ph: 602.965.9411 http://hybrid.asu.edu Fx: 602.965.2724 Pg:602.204.1831 e-page: adrian@falcon.asu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 11:21:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06861 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:21:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06854 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:21:16 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du346-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.92]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA31204 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:21:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199809011521.IAA31204@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:24:45 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: PROM Programmers In-Reply-To: References: <199809010235.TAA02586@mail.wgn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I think the MODEMPU from JDR at $129 may be the ticket, finally found out they can do bipolars, and a ton of other things. Good price too! Sandy At 07:58 AM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote: > >On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Sandy wrote: >> Ok, I need to get a programmer that will burn Bipolar 82SXXX and 74SXXX >> proms. Who has a low cost one that can toast the old Bipolar relics without >> a multi-mega-dollar adapter board? > >Ya might ask the folks at General Device Instr if they've >got a used dust collector. 2 programmers may be cheaper than 1 >in this case. >www.generaldevice.com > >-greg > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 11:26:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07011 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:26:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07006 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:26:10 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du346-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.92]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA31740 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:26:07 -0700 Message-Id: <199809011526.IAA31740@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 08:29:38 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: RE: PROM Programmers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu the 82S23 will not quite do it. I also have a simple parallel port hack for the bipolars, but the software is stuck in some other program that I can't really work with. Thanks, any-a-ways! Sandy At 09:44 AM 9/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >I have a circuit for a 82S23 fuse link prom programmer that is easy to >build. Since it is only 32 bits it doesn't take long to program. I also have >a Data I/O 29A programmer that should handle your parts. I have spare 82S23 >proms that I would program for you if you sent the address and data info. > >Take care > >Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy [SMTP:sganz@wgn.net] > Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 9:39 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: PROM Programmers > > Ok, I need to get a programmer that will burn Bipolar 82SXXX and >74SXXX > proms. Who has a low cost one that can toast the old Bipolar relics >without > a multi-mega-dollar adapter board? > > Sandy > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 11:33:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07247 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:33:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07243 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:33:28 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-3.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.21]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id LAA07791 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007201bdd5be$4e221180$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: REALLY dumb question Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:36:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Joe Boucher To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 10:54 AM Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: REALLY dumb question >> > For these reasons I've heard (unconfirmed rumours) that F1 cars >> > heat the fuel to 300deg before injection. No droplets at all - all >> > vapour. You can't argue with 900HP from 3L normally aspirated. >> > >> This sounds like the famous Pouge carburetor in the 1930's >> would get over 100 mpg by vaporizing all the fuel >> alex > >I thought it was 200 mpg? Actually I was under the impression the Pouge was what used on the P-38's of WW11. Was a variable venturri, lastest form the Predator. Gotta admit thou, designing a carb to work inverted is a trick. Had neat little round cork floats, as I recall. BTW, I saw a P-38 carb installed onna jeep once, kinda neat, really. The fuel pump looked like a coffee thermos (2 quart size).. Cheers Bruce Doc spent most of the morning trying to fill his coffee mug while it was here. > >Joe Boucher >'70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 12:15:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08261 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:15:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08257 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:14:57 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id JAA04588 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seamail.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 1 Sep 1998 16:14:58 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <7F57DC2D45ADD11196B700A0C99B563259DA85@seamail.perkinscoie.com> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Retrofit TBI to MGB Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:14:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu isn't an L-Jettronic a 4 cyl FI, (4 injectors) ? with an mgb head and the Siamesed intake ports, wouldn't that be an issue ? is there an electronic TBI from bosch ? I know the D-Jetronic was FI also. thanks, Ted. -----Original Message----- From: bearbvd@sni.net [mailto:bearbvd@sni.net] Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 4:52 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB >Hi all, I have decided to take up a project to install fuel injection in >my MGB. It has a 1.8L, in-line four cylinder with siamesed intake for >cylinders 1,2 and 3,4. I have done a small amount of study and have >concluded that a throttle body injection system would be the easiest to >implement. > >Basically, I'm looking for advice about conversion. Am I crazy to try to >take on such a project? > >I am considering air flow flap vs. MAP sensor. Any comments? I realize >that the air flow valve can restrict flow, but we are talking about an >engine that is only 95 HP or so, not a fire-breathing behemoth. >I am looking for an existing fuel injection system from a more modern auto >with a similar sized displacement and HP. If I just use a fuel injection >system, with regular mechanical distributor, would I need to consider any >other factors? > >I'm hoping that I can find a system from a Ford, GM, or European auto with >Bosch system. Can anyone recommend systems to consider or avoid? > >Lastly, what literature would you guys recommend I get. I'm a civil >engineer by schooling, but I can understand some electronics. My goal, if >I can get a system to work, would be to eventually work on a system which >would allow tuning of the computer. Therefore, I'd like a book that is >thorough in basic theory, but also covers the workings of the computers. >Is there such an all-encompassing book? > > >Thanks for your time > >Jay Jay-- try a Bosch L-Jetronic off a Volvo B-21 Regards, Greg > > >*********************************************** >Jurgen Hartwig, Civil Engineering, Georgia Tech > >When you were born you cried >and the world rejoiced >Try to live your life so that >when you die you will rejoice >and the world will cry. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 12:35:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08587 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:35:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fxiod04.is (firewall-user@fxiod04.is.chrysler.com [204.189.94.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08582 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:34:59 -0400 From: jb24@chrysler.com Received: from odnpspr2-nf0.oddc.chrysler.com (odnpspr2-nf0.oddc.chrysler.com [129.9.202.74]) by fxiod04.is (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA13352 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:28:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com (lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com [129.9.202.75]) by odnpspr2-nf0.oddc.chrysler.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/chrysler-relay.1.2-kcd) with SMTP id MAA27481 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (666.1 7-2-1998)) id 85256673.000D7525 ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:33:47 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CHRYSLER To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <85256672.005AF8A1.00@lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:36:58 -0400 Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=OD2oX6Lbmf1CuV8c1TifH2PAu8qchcpp476zQYtvZWPbFvbkt2AVsdCs" Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu --0__=OD2oX6Lbmf1CuV8c1TifH2PAu8qchcpp476zQYtvZWPbFvbkt2AVsdCs Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Actually, for all intents and purposes the mixtures at the extreme A/F ratios aren't mixtures at all. The direct injection allows stratified charging, actually close to stoich at the spark plug - pure air in the rest of the cylinder. The low load conditions where DI is most advantageous actually inject after BDC on compression stroke (4- and 2-stroke) to avoid mixing. The heat rejection with highly lean mixtures at low load increases efficiency to get fuel economy up. John Bucknell (Embedded image moved xxalexx@ix.netcom.com to file: 08/31/98 05:07 PM pic32426.pcx) Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of > Ignoring the issue of detonation, how ignitable are lean mixtures? Or > rather, how lean can you make the mixture and still be able to ignite > it? What if you allow for a seriously powerful ignition, and/or bump > the CR up a lot? It seems a bit weird to me that lean mixtures are > more prone to detonation (which indicates to me a mixture near > optimum, or near one of perhaps 2 optimums) and also considered to > be hard to ignite - or is that only at a *much* leaner A/F ratio? > I have heard reports of 26:1; If your engine is still running above 20:1 the extra air will prevent detonation. The Japaneese have production engines, I am not sure if used yet in states. This is one of the reasons for the development of the wide range O2 sensor. alex --0__=OD2oX6Lbmf1CuV8c1TifH2PAu8qchcpp476zQYtvZWPbFvbkt2AVsdCs Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="pic32426.pcx" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pic32426.pcx" Content-transfer-encoding: base64 CgUBCAAAAABoACwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAABaQABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sT zRPHE8MTwhPwEwzIBgzYE8wTxhPDE8IT7hPOBtcTzBPGE8MTE+wTwgbCBwbCEgbCEgbCEsUG1hPL E8YTwxMT6hMMwgYHwgLCAwISwgfEEsMCwwbVE8sTxRPDExPpE8MGAwcCBwMCwhLDB8ISwgISwgLD BtUTyhPFE8MTE+gTwgIHA8ICEw4DDgLDE8USwwLCEMIG1BPKE8UTwxMT5xMCAwcDAg4TDgITwgIS D8ISD8ISBRICEcICwwbUE8oTxRPCExPmEwYCBwMCDgIOwgLDExITEhPCEg8GxgLDBtMMDAfJE8QT whMT5hMGwwITBgMCDhLFEw8SE8ISBgIDwhIDEsMGB9MDxwwHxRPDExPlEwYHAhESAg8CwhMPwhMP xBMPxRIQwgIDAgMCBtMDxwPEDAfDE8IT4RMHwwzCBgLCEhMCDxLIE8MSD8MSwwIQAwIDBgfSDMkD wgPCDAfCExPbEwfGDMIDDAIHERITEhMSwxMPwxMPwxPDEgIDAgMCwwMCBgzREwfHDMYDDMITE9YT B8UMyAMGB8ICBhLDAsYTEhMSExIPwhIHAgcCAwUQAgYRBgfSE8UTB8QMwgMMwhMT0hMHxAzLA8IM BsISDxESExITAw4DxBMSExITwxICBwPCAsMDDMIGB9ITyRMHwwzCExPPEwfDDMkDxQwHwhMGBxIT AhECEwMOAg7DExITDxMPwxIDAgMCBwMCDAYRBgfSE8kTwhPCDMITE8wTB8MMxwPEDMIHxxMGxBLD Ag4DDgIGwg/IEgIDwgIDAgwCEMIGB9ITyRMHDAcMwhMTyhMHwgzGA8MMwgfMEwYHwhLCEAIOAg4C DhDDAhIPxhIFAgXDAgUCEQYH0hPHEwfCDAcPDMITE8gTB8IMxQPDDAfQEwbDEhDEAhAOEA4QwgLG EgcSBhIGBcMCBcIGB9ATB8UMEwfCDA8HDwwHwhMTxhMHwgzEA8MMB9MTBgfCEhADEMICDhAOEMIC EQIDxxIGBwbCAgUCEQYHyxMHxAwHwhMHEwzCEwcPBw8MB8MTE8UTBwzEA8IMB9YTBsQSEAMCA8UC EQIDAgPDEgcSBgfCBgUQAhDCBgfGEwfEDAfGE8INEwzCEw8HwgwHwxPCE8QTBwzDA8IMB9gTBgfE EhACEMYCEQIDAsQSBhLDBsICEALCBgfCEwfDDAfKEwfCDRMHwhPCDAfEE8ITE8MTBwzCA8IMB9oT DBIHwxLDDBEDxQIDAgPDEgYSBgfCBgIQAhAGDAfCEwzDE8MHyRMHwhPCBxMHxRPDExPDEwzCAwwH 3RMGxxICEQPDAgMCA8MSBhIGBwYMBhACEAIGDMMTDBPCB8YTwwfHEwfGE8MTwhPDEwwDDAfeEwYH xxICEQPDAgMCwhIGEgYHBgwGEAIQAsIGB8MTDMYTwwfKEwzGE8MTwhPDE8IMB98TDBLCB8USAgMR xAISB8ISBgcGDAYQBhAGEAYMB8MMB8kTwwfHEwzGE8MTwhPDEwwPwgzfEwYSB8ISB8ISAhECAwID EgcSBwYHBgwGEAYQxgzDD8IHxRPDB8kTBwzGE8MTwhPDEwzDD8QM3BPCBhIGwxIGAhECAwIHBgcG yAzJDxMHzRMHwwwHxxPDE8ITwxMHDMYPxwwH1BMGEgYSBhLLDM4PwwwTDMcTwgfEDAfJE8QTwhMT xBMHwgzLD9sM0w/GDAfDEwzDEwfEDAfLE8YTwxMTxhMHxAztD8gMBgfIE8QMB84TxxPDE8ITyhMH xwzbD8sMEAUMBcIMwgYH1RPKE8UTwxMT0RMH2wwGEAYQBhACBQwFDAUMBgwHBgfWE8sTxRPDExPu EwYMBhAGEAIGDAYMwwYH1xPLE8YTwxMT8BPKBgfYE8wTxhPDExP1E9sTzRPHE8MTwhP1E9sTzRPH E8MTwhMMAAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD/ /wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8A AAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A //8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAA AP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA /wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCk gICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vw oKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzApsrw //vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDAwNzA psrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICAwMDA wNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACAAICA wMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACAgACA AICAwMDAwNzApsrw//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP//////AAAAgAAAAIAAgIAAAACA gACA//vwoKCkgICA/wAAAP8A//8AAAD//wD/AP////// --0__=OD2oX6Lbmf1CuV8c1TifH2PAu8qchcpp476zQYtvZWPbFvbkt2AVsdCs-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 12:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08819 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:46:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08815 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:46:29 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-2.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.2]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id JAA28460 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 09:46:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EC25A0.5E9C@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:49:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB References: <7F57DC2D45ADD11196B700A0C99B563259DA85@seamail.perkinscoie.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Good point. I'm contemplating a similar situation - FI'ing a single-port VW bus app. The dual-ports breathe better, but the single-port heads don't crack ... Regards, Jack Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > > isn't an L-Jettronic a 4 cyl FI, (4 injectors) ? > with an mgb head and the Siamesed intake ports, wouldn't that be an issue ? From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 13:18:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10336 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:18:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10331 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:18:31 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.109]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id NAA14978 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:18:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e801bdd5cc$fb081ee0$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:21:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: goflo@pacbell.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB >Good point. I'm contemplating a similar situation - FI'ing a >single-port VW bus app. The dual-ports breathe better, but the >single-port heads don't crack ... That's why they invented turbos Bruce > >Regards, Jack > >Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: >> >> isn't an L-Jettronic a 4 cyl FI, (4 injectors) ? >> with an mgb head and the Siamesed intake ports, wouldn't that be an issue ? > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 13:38:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10660 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:38:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10656 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:38:34 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-207-104-100-62.sndg02.pacbell.net [207.104.100.62]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id KAA16650 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EC31F5.6BE@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 10:42:13 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB References: <00e801bdd5cc$fb081ee0$68198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I like it :) Regards, Jack Bruce Plecan wrote: > >Good point. I'm contemplating a similar situation - FI'ing a > >single-port VW bus app. The dual-ports breathe better, but the > >single-port heads don't crack ... > > That's why they invented turbos From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 13:42:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10768 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:42:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10764 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:42:44 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA02480 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:40:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:40:53 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Ignoring the issue of detonation, how ignitable are lean mixtures? Or >> rather, how lean can you make the mixture and still be able to ignite >> it? What if you allow for a seriously powerful ignition, and/or bump >> the CR up a lot? It seems a bit weird to me that lean mixtures are >> more prone to detonation (which indicates to me a mixture near >> optimum, or near one of perhaps 2 optimums) and also considered to >> be hard to ignite - or is that only at a *much* leaner A/F ratio? >> >I have heard reports of 26:1; If your engine is still running above >20:1 the extra air will prevent detonation. The Japaneese have >production engines, I am not sure if used yet in states. >This is one of the reasons for the development of the wide range >O2 sensor. >alex I believe the limit of flammability is at about 17 or 18:1 for gasoline in air. Leaner than that and homogenous, it simply won't light, period. To run any leaner average micture, one needs a stratified charge. A diesel burns because the charge is rich enough to burn close to the droplets from the injector. Orbital is achieving their burn with direct injection down to 80:1 AVERAGE af ratio or whatever due to stratification of the charge. With a stratified charge, therre is no mixture to detonate in the "end" gas (further reaches of the chamber. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 14:05:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11398 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:05:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11394 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:05:22 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA05700 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:03:30 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:03:30 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >According to F1 regulations, the gasoline used in F1 cars is pump quality >petrol and to be legal for use, has to be sold at the pump. Since no after-pump >additives are allowed, this is usually 108 octane or better UNLEADED gasoline. > And if you believe that, I have this bridge in Brooklyn that is for sale---- The ways that these guys invent to cheat could even make the old Curtis (Pops) Turner/ Smokey Yunick team look like they just fell of the turnip truck. Once watched a pal pour twe GI cans of left over F1 go juice into his Olds Cutlass (350) Vista Cruiser at Watkins Glen after the race, cuz he was too low on gas to make it back home to Ithaca. Results: car made about 25% more power on way home; car's mileage dropped by about 60%; by two days later, car's engine (previously good) sounded loose as a goose and worn out. Hmmmm. Bill raced a Mini-Cooper at the time, and had also liberated two more fivers of the same stuff for use therein. After listening to the way the Olds sounded after its experience. we conducted a small experiment: threw a splash of the stuff into a glass beaker of brand new Valvoline racing oil. Within about three minutes, the sample of new motor oil had separated into five or six layers!! Needless to say, the rest of the fuel never went into the Mini! Never seen anything like that occur if tried with pump gas!!---Go figure! By the way,, the F1 rules read about the same at that time as they do now as to fuel composition. My conclusion: F1 fuel guys are mad chemists, even in comparison to top fuel drag racers, but at least the drag guys admit to their addictions and weaknesses. > Regards, Greg >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Adrian Teo e-mail: adrian.teo@asu.edu >System Administator >Instruction Support, Arizona State University >Ph: 602.965.9411 http://hybrid.asu.edu >Fx: 602.965.2724 Pg:602.204.1831 e-page: adrian@falcon.asu.edu >------------------------------------------------------------------------ From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 14:09:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11522 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:09:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11517 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:09:46 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06264 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:07:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:07:55 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Actually, for all intents and purposes the mixtures at the extreme A/F >ratios aren't mixtures at all. The direct injection allows stratified >charging, actually close to stoich at the spark plug - pure air in the rest >of the cylinder. The low load conditions where DI is most advantageous >actually inject after BDC on compression stroke (4- and 2-stroke) to avoid >mixing. The heat rejection with highly lean mixtures at low load increases >efficiency to get fuel economy up. > >John Bucknell Amen. Plus, the wider throttle opening relative to load serves to decrease pumping work, and thus boost BSFC. Regards, Greg > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 14:12:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11623 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:12:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11616 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:12:40 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA06712 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:10:48 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:10:48 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Good point. I'm contemplating a similar situation - FI'ing a >single-port VW bus app. The dual-ports breathe better, but the >single-port heads don't crack ... > >Regards, Jack > >Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: >> >> isn't an L-Jettronic a 4 cyl FI, (4 injectors) ? >> with an mgb head and the Siamesed intake ports, wouldn't that be an issue ? First reaction---OOOOPPS! Second reaction--might could be able to put two injectors in each port and make it work pretty durn well. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 14:18:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11771 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:18:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tmc6.astm.cmri.cmu.edu (TMC6.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.224.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11767 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:18:25 -0400 Received: by TMC6.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:17:49 -0400 Message-ID: <311B7EA14AAAD111B6AC0000C0E4A3CF073A2D@TMC6.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU> From: Michael Kasimirsky To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Renault F1 V10 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:17:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >According to F1 regulations, the gasoline used in F1 cars is > pump quality > >petrol and to be legal for use, has to be sold at the pump. > Since no after-pump > >additives are allowed, this is usually 108 octane or better > UNLEADED gasoline. While this may be the regs, I don't think it's reality. For example, a top-line AMA or WSB-spec Superbike (750cc, 4-cylinder) uses about 40 degrees of ignition advance to get power out of the engine at 14,000 rpm or so. Now optimum power comes with 10 degrees or so of ignition timing, but you can't do this with "normal" gasoline. Now the F1 guys have developed fuel, called "gasoline," that allows them to run 10-12 degrees of advance at 17,000 rpm and make piles of power. My understanding is that it's a concoction of Benzene, Tolulene, etc. and other nasty stuff that isn't usually a large part of pump gas. It may be lead-free, but it's not pump gas. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 14:57:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12855 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:57:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12849 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:57:30 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-207-104-100-122.sndg02.pacbell.net [207.104.100.122]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id LAA15990 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 11:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EC446E.6300@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 12:01:02 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu One low #/hr and 1 high #/hr injector per port would be interesting - Custom ECU required, of course - Injection timing in a siamesed port is something to think about... Regards, Jack Greg Hermann wrote: > First reaction---OOOOPPS! > Second reaction--might could be able to put two injectors in each port and > make it work pretty durn well. Jack Wrote: > >Good point. I'm contemplating a similar situation - FI'ing a > >single-port VW bus app. The dual-ports breathe better, but the > >single-port heads don't crack ... > > > >Regards, Jack Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > >> > >> isn't an L-Jettronic a 4 cyl FI, (4 injectors) ? > >> with an mgb head and the Siamesed intake ports, wouldn't that be an issue ? > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 15:15:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13172 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:15:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13168 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:15:56 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16118 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:14:03 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:14:03 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Presumably this means that these injectors have a minimum usable >"on" time a good bit lower than the usual 1-2 msec or so? (Or does >the engine have a fairly low ratio of power at WOT to power at idle?) More like the injector has a rather longer time to fill the pre-chamber with a metered amount of fuel, then the compressed air takes the (pre-metered amount of) fuel past the air valve quite quickly. The actual amount of air used for this is not that critical, so higher flow rates and shorter duty cycles are ok for the air valves. > >There are still several relationships and effects that I'm curious >about: > >Does a decreased droplet size lower the "effective" octane of a fuel No. >(by increasing flame speed, no effect Or is it all vapor by TDC anyway, regardless of droplet >size? With progressively larger droplets, not all are necessarily vaporized or burned. Leading to HC emissions and less fuel economy. It is a proven fact that larger fuel droplets can survive the combustion process intact. > >To what extent is the fuel/air really homogeneous by TDC? On one hand >you have "stratified charge" engines, and OTOH your residual volume >is fairly small in an average-CR engine. Combustion chamber design and charge stratification is a whole nother (closely related) topic. > >Ignoring the issue of detonation, how ignitable are lean mixtures? Or >rather, how lean can you make the mixture and still be able to ignite >it? 17 or 18 to 1 is the limit of flammability for a homogeneous mixture, no matter how hot the spark. I just wonder if any of those efficiencies can be brought to a TPI setup. I wasn't thinking of bringing the lean mixture efficiencies to a TPI setup--you need the stratified charge effect for that. All I would hope for is the improved fuel economy and power due to better fuel atomization and reduction of compression work by evaporating a higher percentage of the fuel during the compression stroke. I think that both gains would be significant--and, although this is unexplored territory, no-one has come forward with any wagers against it yet. > >My experience there left me with a few good rules of thumb; I'm sure >some of them apply here but doubt that they all do: > As to your thoughts on detonation: My SUBJECTIVE feelings on it are that there is a critical P-T-mixture ratio for any given fuel above which detonation will occur, but that there is also a (material and conditions specific) time delay involved. Once you get the mixture above the critical point, the countdown starts, then after a certain time , it detonates. This feel is based on a lot of engine tuning. Also a bit of (field) experience working with explosives (is the FBI still in the wings wondering about our 747's??). My experience with engines seems to indicate that if you can get the burn over with quickly (as a result of short flame travel, mixture motion, and mixture turbulence, as opposed to fast flame travel) the chances of getting detonation are VASTLY reduced, the need for ignition advance is also reduced, and BSFC is improved. I have actually worked with an 11.5 : 1 C.R. engine whose chambers were conducive to the above mentioned things happening, and I observed the following: It would run on 101 octane (unleaded) with 45 degrees of total advance with no detonation whatsoever, but it made its best power with only 32 degrees of total advance. Otherwise the same, but with different chamber shapes, the same engine did not make as much power, and could knock its brains out on 104 octane. Power was still increasing with increasing advance with more than 40 degrees, but detonation prevented going any further whilst looking for more power. Does your experience working with explosives back up any of what I have (kind of lamely) tried to say here? Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 15:17:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13197 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:17:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13192 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:17:04 -0400 Received: from localhost (chickens@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/piglet.mc-1.4) with SMTP id OAA05044 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:17:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:17:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Jake Sternberg X-Sender: chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Turbocharging a natural gas engine In-Reply-To: <199809010900.FAA11106@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Compressed natural gas has an octane rating around 120 + turbocharging an engine using natural gas makes sense because natural gas costs about 35-40 cents per "gallon" in your home and about 65 cents per "gallon" at a gas station (if you don't have a 3600 PSI pump at your house). many cities in the US offer a rebate to convert your vehicle to natural gas, like Austin, texas. here, i can convert for free. (* a "gallon" of compressed natural gas is the amount of CNG with the equivalent energy of a gallon of gasoline) From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 15:18:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13248 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:18:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13242 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:18:15 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (slip129-37-161-232.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.232]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA39018 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:18:12 GMT Message-ID: <35EC497F.6F4D@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 15:22:39 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB References: <7F57DC2D45ADD11196B700A0C99B563259DA85@seamail.perkinscoie.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > > isn't an L-Jettronic a 4 cyl FI, (4 injectors) ? > with an mgb head and the Siamesed intake ports, wouldn't that be an issue ? > > is there an electronic TBI from bosch ? I know the D-Jetronic was FI also. Yes, it has 4 injectors. With the D Jet I would drill the head for the injectors - just stay away from water jackets and oil galleries. As it is CFI you could also just put 2 injectors into each manifold runner. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Looks like we've finally fixed it!!! I am still clare.snyder.on.ca@ibm.net Snyder.on.ca is BACK ON THE NET!!! With any luck, I will be Clare@snyder.on.ca real soon!!! Clare Snyder Waterloo, Ontario From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 15:20:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13359 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:20:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13355 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:20:48 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16845 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:18:55 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:18:55 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >I like it :) Ah Ha!! another power crazed , environmentally careless profligate!! Someone call the thought police!! I'll bet you actually like sex, and were a juvenile delinquent , to boot!! Regards, Greg > >Regards, Jack > >Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> >Good point. I'm contemplating a similar situation - FI'ing a >> >single-port VW bus app. The dual-ports breathe better, but the >> >single-port heads don't crack ... >> >> That's why they invented turbos From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 15:28:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13514 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:28:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13510 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:28:27 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA18070 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:26:33 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:26:33 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: Renault F1 V10 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >According to F1 regulations, the gasoline used in F1 cars is >> pump quality >> >petrol and to be legal for use, has to be sold at the pump. >> Since no after-pump >> >additives are allowed, this is usually 108 octane or better >> UNLEADED gasoline. > >While this may be the regs, I don't think it's reality. For example, a >top-line AMA or WSB-spec Superbike (750cc, 4-cylinder) uses about >40 degrees of ignition advance to get power out of the engine at 14,000 >rpm >or so. Now optimum power comes with 10 degrees or so of ignition >timing, but you can't do this with "normal" gasoline. > >Now the F1 guys have developed fuel, called "gasoline," that allows them >to run >10-12 degrees of advance at 17,000 rpm and make piles of power. My >understanding >is that it's a concoction of Benzene, Tolulene, etc. Don't forget the Xylene--the nastiest and most carcinogenic of the bunch, unless, of course some or all of the above are nitrated to one degree and percentage or another!!! Then there are other neat things like hydrazine. Try reading a book about the things Werner Von Braun put into V-2's and some of his later rockets. Also try reading some stuff about torpedo motor fuels. Neat, but don't sniff it. Regards, Greg and other nasty >stuff that isn't usually >a large part of pump gas. > >It may be lead-free, but it's not pump gas. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 16:16:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14646 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:16:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14642 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:16:07 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.109]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id QAA22379 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:16:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ab01bdd5e5$c9efb980$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:19:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann Subject: RE: Renault F1 V10 Also try reading some stuff about torpedo motor >fuels. Neat, but don't sniff it. Where would one look for material on such issues?. Other than finding a retired U-Boat captain/weaponeer?. > >Regards, Greg > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 16:51:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15225 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:51:23 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15221 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:51:21 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.109]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id QAA08167 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01e001bdd5ea$b55ee2c0$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Dallas Semiconductor Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:54:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anybody know where some one can buy this brand of chips?. Looking for prices on some SRAM. TIA Bruce Staffers all inna flurry at the mention of torpedos after skiing incident. Doc ain't been right since the trooper explained how dangerous skiing behind a boat being towed onna dirt road could be.. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 16:56:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15465 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:56:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15460 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 16:56:30 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-46.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.46]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id NAA29337 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EC5FF9.3D94@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 13:58:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 References: <01ab01bdd5e5$c9efb980$68198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Der U-Bootwaffen Archiv ist: http//u-boat.net Regards, Jack Bruce Plecan wrote: > Where would one look for material on such issues?. Other than > finding a retired U-Boat captain/weaponeer?. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 17:10:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15834 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:10:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send1d.yahoomail.com (send1d.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.48]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA15829 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:09:59 -0400 Message-ID: <19980901210241.9552.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Received: from [152.163.213.179] by send1d; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 14:02:41 PDT Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:02:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Macpherson Subject: Motronic 0261 200 XXX EPROM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does nayone have a copy of an eprom from any BMW with lambdasond, and bosch number: 0 261 200 XXX if anyone does, could they please send it as an atached file to cheers mike _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 17:12:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15879 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:12:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15875 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 17:12:36 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-46.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.46]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id OAA05806 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:12:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EC6426.4505@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 14:16:22 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Dallas Semiconductor References: <01e001bdd5ea$b55ee2c0$68198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu DS will do small quantity direct sales w/ credit card. http://www.dalsemi.com/Sales/credit_card.html Mouser has decent prices on NEC SRAM. 800 346 6873 Whacha upto? Regards, Jack Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Anybody know where some one can buy this brand of chips?. > Looking for prices on some SRAM. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 18:05:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16943 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:05:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oramail.orausa.com ([204.140.232.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16939 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:05:52 -0400 Received: by ORAMAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:05:21 -0700 Message-ID: <618805C5F139D211A06F00104B8942F0011828@ORAMAIL> From: Alex Samson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Dallas Semiconductor Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 15:05:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDD5F4.9C16BA30" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD5F4.9C16BA30 Content-Type: text/plain >Anybody know where some one can buy this brand of chips?. >Looking for prices on some SRAM. Bruce, Check their website at http://www.dalsemi.com . If you let me know where you are I can give you the phone # of their nearest dealer. My 1996 phone # of their support is (214) 450-0448. alex samson ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD5F4.9C16BA30 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dallas Semiconductor

>Anybody know where some one can buy this brand = of chips?.
>Looking for = prices on some SRAM. 

Bruce,
Check their website at = http://www.dalsemi.com .  If you let me know where you are I can give you = the phone # of their nearest dealer.  My 1996 phone # of their = support is (214) 450-0448.

alex samson

------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD5F4.9C16BA30-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 18:31:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17332 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:31:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rtmol.stt.it ([193.70.50.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17328 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 18:31:29 -0400 From: fpalumbo@rtmol.it Received: from default (ppp-01.rtmol.stt.it [193.70.50.31]) by rtmol.stt.it (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA04795 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:31:22 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980902003219.006f8f58@mail.rtmol.it> X-Sender: fpalumbo@mail.rtmol.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 00:32:19 +0200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Motronic 0261 200 XXX EPROM In-Reply-To: <19980901210241.9552.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 14.02 01/09/98 -0700, you wrote: >Does nayone have a copy of an eprom from any BMW with lambdasond, and >bosch number: > 0 261 200 XXX if anyone does, could they please send it as an atached >file to > > > >cheers >mike >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > Hi Mike, I have lot of eprom which the same number, please can You specify which type of car do You need ? Best Regards. Fabrizio Palumbo EFI Technologies http://www.axa.it/ame E-Mail : ame@axa.it From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 20:17:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18257 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:17:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from axis.jeack.com.au (root@axis.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18253 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:17:05 -0400 Received: from mainpc (d6.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.249]) by axis.jeack.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA22159 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:16:42 GMT Message-ID: <000301bdd607$0af9cc60$f97d18cb@mainpc> From: "Ross Myers" To: "EFI List" Subject: Impedance of TBI's. Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:52:16 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All, Damn I wish I'd followed some of the discussions on this group more closely.... Here's a question I'm sure has been answered recently, I'm after the Impedance of the Injectors used on the Cross Fire TBI setup. Do you think the 1227165 / 808 would drive these lower impedance injectors? Also how would it handle parallel IAC motors like the C.F setup has?. Regards Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 20:57:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18718 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:57:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18714 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:57:01 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.109]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id UAA05267 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <039101bdd60d$04f313c0$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Impedance of TBI's. Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:00:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Ross Myers To: EFI List Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 8:38 PM Subject: Impedance of TBI's. >Hi All, > >Damn I wish I'd followed some of the discussions on this group more >closely.... >Here's a question I'm sure has been answered recently, I'm after the >Impedance of the Injectors used on the Cross Fire TBI setup. About 2 ohms each. > >Do you think the 1227165 / 808 would drive these lower impedance injectors? Yes, but there are better ecms, the 1227747 is the "right choice". The 747 fires one injector every ignition pulse. The 808 fires all injectors every 4th pulse. >Also how would it handle parallel IAC motors like the C.F setup has?. Been running them just fine off the 1227747 in my car for years. 747 is a single IAC application. Cheers Bruce > >Regards >Ross Myers > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 21:48:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19244 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:48:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19240 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:48:00 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DM4UZ3PA; Tue, 01 Sep 1998 21:47:24 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:23:59 -0400 Subject: Re: boost presser and power gain Message-ID: <19980901.214527.11326.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-14 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Greg Hermann wrote: >> >>> Thermo 301 class will convene in three weeks. Tuition will be high. >>> Prerequisites are knowing that F=ma and that you can't push a rope. You can push a rope if you know the proper technique. Step 1: Get the rope wet Step 2: Subject the rope to temperatures below 273.15 K step 3: Push to your heart's delight! Ray _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 22:04:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19424 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:04:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.146.90.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19420 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:04:04 -0400 Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (980427.SGI.8.8.8/940406.SGI) for id WAA10380; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au (exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.2.94]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA12522 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:31:40 +0930 (CST) Received: from fang.dsto.defence.gov.au ([131.185.2.5]) by exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id SAW72B6V; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:33:51 +0930 Received: from hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au (hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au [146.221.39.21]) by fang.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA05005 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:33:57 +0930 (CST) Received: from [146.221.36.211] ([146.221.36.211]) by hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au with SMTP; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:00:50 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:01:25 +1000 To: diy_efi From: Steve Lamb Subject: Non-GM knock sensor Q Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu As some of you are aware, myself and a friend are currently attempting to adapt an 808 ECM to run a Nissan FJ20 (DOHC 4, NA version) using the Kalmaker gear. Now, the FJ20 has a knock sensor installed in the block and the Kal software gives access to all the knock variables, but the question is: will the output from the Nissan sensor be suitable for direct input to the Delco ECM ?? I have all the wiring diagrams, so know which pin-outs to use. Any opinion/input greatly appreciated. TIA Steve Lamb Department of Defence, DSTO Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 22:32:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19823 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:32:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19819 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:32:51 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.107]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980902023248.IBYY28209@malinda> for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:32:48 +0000 Message-ID: <35ECB097.AF12AA4@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:42:31 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Steve Lamb wrote: > As some of you are aware, myself and a friend are currently attempting > to > adapt an 808 ECM to run a Nissan FJ20 (DOHC 4, NA version) using the > Kalmaker gear. Now, the FJ20 has a knock sensor installed in the > block > and the Kal software gives access to all the knock variables, but the > question is: will the output from the Nissan sensor be suitable for > direct > input to the Delco ECM ?? I have all the wiring diagrams, so know > which > pin-outs to use. Any opinion/input greatly appreciated. I can't answer your question but, I wondered the same thing when I did my swap, I wanted to use the stock sensor but I didn't know if it would work so I just swapped to the GM sensor it works great, it not perfect because if I add lots of timing I can hear a few knocks before the ECM retards timing but under normal conditions it senses knock way before you hear it...I guess all that talk about knock sensors, and the ESC module filtering out engine specific frequencies is questionable because you will never convince me that the acoustic and knock properties of a 4.3 V6 GM motor and a straight 6 AMC motor are the same...Or maybe I just go lucky, I don't really care cause it works.... JTW -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 22:35:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19864 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:35:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19859 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:35:34 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-131.mtco.com [206.69.130.131]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA09172 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:35:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ECAF43.E5754476@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 21:36:52 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: pre-fuel filter advice needed References: <007801bdd226$74c500e0$21198fd1@nacelp> <199808280608.BAA21075@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You need a screen filter to keep the big crap out of the pump. Mine plugged with silicone seal from the sender unit install. xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:14:58 -0700 (PDT) > > From: James Weiler > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Subject: Re: pre-fuel filter advice needed > > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Uhmmm I guess I don't understand how this would help. It sounds like a > > small container. With the flow of fuel it should just swirl > > up the crap and bring it into the pump. I think you're going to have to > > explain what a seperator is in more detail. > > thanks > > jw > It would get rid of water, airplanes use this, drain the bottom of > bowl before take off. Cars used to have glass bowl filters, take out > the filter and you have nice trap. > alex From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 23:05:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20413 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:05:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20409 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:05:02 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-131.mtco.com [206.69.130.131]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA12994 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:04:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ECB62B.F659AD1B@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:06:19 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: REALLY dumb question -Reply References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just a couple of observations. I have seen 400 SBCs with alcohol Holleys and more cam than I have idle like a John Deere garden tractor without stand-off, that's why I picked a 109 DEG center cam. It has a very broad torque curve, cruses at 15" vacuum and gets 25+ MPG. It just won't idle.... 2. BSFC is a measure of combustion efficiency and is affected by intake/exhaust tuning and anything that affects the combustion process, including particle (droplet) size (atomization?), turbochargers, EFI, Carb boosters(Webber), C/R, and temperature (density?). Smokey U. had a twin turbo, carburated 2.5L Fiero with heated fuel that ran 400 deg. intake temps to increase fuel vaporization. The Turbo was required to force the hot mixture into the combustion chamber. No Knock, great power, & teriffic BSFC numbers. I don't remember all the details, but it ate exhaust valves every 10K miles. Detroit was looking at his prototype. 3. The heat loss problem can be improved with ceramic coatings. More on those later. I swear by them. Everything Tech Line says is true. Greg Hermann wrote: > >10-4 but it all depends upon RPM. Each duration (overlap) value has a > >different scavenge RPM and when you are under it (or turbocharged) all kjinds > >of unpleasant things happen. I have seen fuel haze "standing" on top of a > >carburator from this.. Tom. > > > Tom-- I suspect you of a plot to keep me up late. I've tuned many Webers > from scratch. seen fuel standoff too. It's why Weber will sell you extended > boosters for IDA's and DCOE's. But the headers are still wrapped around the > cam grinder's neck. Fuel standoff is primarily due to standing (sound) > waves in the intake ports, which happen when the i valves are closed, not > to self egr. When it happens, you can put the extended boosters in, and, by > keeping the fuel that's way out there from falling onto the floor, you > bring the BSFC right back into line. Too bad Passini's books are out of > print, and somebody thought they need mine more than I did! > > I will admit that if you are trying to run a cam that has no business > turning slower than 4 K on the street, you can get some burble, > particularly on a single plane manifolded V-8, but I thought that modern > valve spring materials and cam ramp rates had pretty much cured that crap. > The other side of that is that I can and have set up 1649 cc , 4 cyl. > (naturally aspirated) Alfas (80x82, 2mm over 1600) with cams that wouldn't > make any power below about 5000, with 11.5 compression and two 45 DCOE's > with 36mm chokes so they would make about 185-190 HP, and yet idle smoothly > at 700 RPM, and pull smoothly (if only about as hard as a clapped out 1300) > if you floored them at 1500 rpm in 5th gear. (P.S. Still only a single plug > head, but made best power with only 33 degrees total advance--go ahead, > ask!) Yeah, there was some fuel standoff, but I don't think much self egr. > > Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 23:19:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20653 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:19:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20649 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:19:52 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-131.mtco.com [206.69.130.131]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA15343 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:19:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ECB9A5.D87A50AB@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:21:09 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: More 101 stuff References: <35E70E3B.1CEC4AE4@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jayson, I am a professional programmer and am interested in writing my own EGI program. Look into reverse engineering the xxx chips. Good Luck Tom S. Jason Weir wrote: > I just made what I think is a big discovery, but you know what they say > about one man's treasure or something like that, > > Ok, I was checking out the following bins > > AJUK > ABUL > ACSW > AKAL > ASDU > A 4.3 V6 chip that I got from Howell EFI > A 4.3 V6 chip that I got from Bruce > > As we all know on the prom data is from 0x000 through 0x616 and code is > from 0x617 through 0xfff, I checked the above files with Hex Workshop, > with it you are able to compare files byte, by byte so I started > checking the code (from 0x617 on) from the above files, I found them all > to be exactly the same. So that means that the code is not different > from a V6 to a V8 so Bruce was correct that the cylinder select is in > the data somewhere... Maybe if we find it, a 7747 could be installed on > a 4 cylinder someday??? > > Did everybody already know this an I am just finding out? Boy would that > make me feel dumb.. ;) later, Jason > > oh yeah you can find Hex Workshop at http://www.bpsoft.com > -- > Jason Weir > 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI > Fayetteville, North Carolina > http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page > http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume > mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 23:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20949 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:35:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20945 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:35:09 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-18.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.36]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id XAA29322 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:35:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007801bdd623$1ac41760$24198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:38:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Steve Lamb To: diy_efi Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 10:22 PM Subject: Non-GM knock sensor Q >As some of you are aware, myself and a friend are currently attempting to >adapt an 808 ECM to run a Nissan FJ20 (DOHC 4, NA version) using the >Kalmaker gear. Now, the FJ20 has a knock sensor installed in the block >and the Kal software gives access to all the knock variables, but the >question is: will the output from the Nissan sensor be suitable for direct >input to the Delco ECM ?? I have all the wiring diagrams, so know which >pin-outs to use. Any opinion/input greatly appreciated. What I did (do), is get a catalog such as Standard Ignition Parts Catalog. In there they give module numbers, and interchange numbers. On the ecm I used it turns out the were like 3 knock sensors, and 4 or 5 ESC modules. Being the lazy, cheap person that I am, I took the catalog to a wreckers, and poked around till I gathered the modules. $5 a piece. then tried each one to find the limits of it's detection, and then worked the timing curves around till no knock triggered, heard, or seen in plug cuts. Turns out my v-8 SBC uses a 350 SBC sensor, and a Buick v-6 ESC Module. Works fine thankyou very much. Same ascoutic footprint?, I don't know. Do I care?, no. Bottom line is that it works as it should. Cheers Bruce > >TIA > >Steve Lamb >Department of Defence, DSTO >Aeronautical and Maritime Research Laboratory >506 Lorimer Street >Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia > >Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 >Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 > >IZCC #180 > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 23:38:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21042 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:38:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21038 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:38:49 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-131.mtco.com [206.69.130.131]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA17902 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:38:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ECBE16.2A8B441F@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:40:06 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have one of these also and they work good. You might want to consider upgrading the injectors to 2" bore (Holley, I think) for 350-383-400 CI. or use it as is on a 305-327-350. Just a thought. More is better. Tom Kevin Crain wrote: > Swapping a TPI system into my 1982 Chevy Camaro Z-28, the factory Cross > Fire Injection system is up for sale. This is a dual-TBI system, intake > designed such that each TBI feeds the opposite cylinder bank on a V-8. > Long runners, lotsa low-end grunt. > > This is a complete system, including the factory ECM (stock and Hypertech > chips), Electronic Spark Control module, distributor, engine > compartment wiring harness, in-tank fuel pump, TBIs, intake manifold for > small-block Chevy, air filter housing, and all sensors and relays. It > works great, is currently pushing my Z to/from work daily. Will pull the > top plate and TBIs so as to leave them balanced, ready to bolt up and run. > > Throwing in two brand-new GM rebuild kits for the TBIs, bought last year > when I was prepping to do a Bruce Plecan hop-up on it, cost me $35 each. > System will be available for shipment Sep 18th. Asking $200 US or best > offer. > > -Kevin Crain > -Knoxville, TN From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 23:42:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21117 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:42:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21110 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:42:17 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-131.mtco.com [206.69.130.131]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA17668 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:42:15 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ECBEE6.60927DB5@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:43:34 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: wide range oxygen sensors. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jake Sternberg wrote: > it would suck to get aho there are a couple wide-range > oxygen sensors and their Go Jake ... Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 1 23:55:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21337 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:55:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21333 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:55:31 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-131.mtco.com [206.69.130.131]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA19581 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:55:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ECC200.FD6AC808@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 22:56:48 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: boost presser and power gain References: <19980831195035.19605.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu More later Sergey........ Tom Sharpe Tom's Turbo Tips: These are the results of my experience with a T04B V2 trim on a 350 SBC with adapters from Accel. It was quite a while ago so and my memory is not as good as it used to be. The math is for us ten finger users, if you need a calculator, you need better formulas.... As always, your results may vary.......... My 350 example engine is capable of 350 HP @ 5250 rpm, if yours is not capable of 1 hp/Cu.In. then adjust accordingly. Horsepower = Torque @ 5250 RPM. Start thinking torque. ........Compressor maps......... Calculate air flow @ 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000 RPM. Assume a VE of ?? (I used 95%) 350*5000/12/12/12/2*.95=CFM=481 @4500@13lbs boost = 850CFM Calculate the same @ 1 1/3, 1 2/3, 2, 2 1/3 PR. (5, 10, 15, 20 lbs. boost (gauge)). (Multiply by 1.3333, 1.6667 etc.) As pressure goes up, VE goes down, but only a few %. You should now have 25 points. An engine capable of 1 Hp/CuIn will deliver approximately 1.333 Hp/CuIn @ 1.333 PR, 1.666 Hp/CuIn @ 1.667 PR, etc. An engine capable of X torque will produce 1.333 X torque @ 5 lbs. boost ................ .is the light on yet?? How much Torque do you want to produce???? At what RPM ????? Will the short block stand it?? Will the heads stand the airflow?? Plot and connect the rpm points @ 1.3 PR on the compressor map. You should have a line from the bottom center to the middle right (or there abouts) Repeat for the 1.67, 2, and 2.3 PR lines. You should be adding lines up and down, left of the first. The idea is for the line to go through the center of the compressor efficiency island. Stall is generally to the left and above the island (compressor too small). You should now know if you have chosen the correct compressor. Indy car compressors are most efficient at high boost 30-45 lbs. gauge or 3-4 PR. Others are lower. Turbochargers are just air pumps... just like an piston pump (engine) and the compressor map describes it's capacity which can be expressed in Lbs./min. CFM, or horsepower. A T04B is capable of 450-500 HP, on a 302 Ford, that’s 13 lbs. Boost @ 5250 rpm, more at lower rpm (Think Torque). On a 122 CI Pinto (2L), it is 30 lbs. boost @ 8000 RPM. On a 502 BBC, it's a soda straw in the intake and a cork in the exhaust. The turbine housing ratio can be thought of as Blower pulleys. Smaller numbers cause the compressor to spin faster and produce more boost and torque at lower RPM (until it runs out of capacity). Larger numbers lower boost and raise RPM potential (and Horsepower) (again until it runs out of capacity). Turbochargers have a "range", usually from X RPM to 2X RPM..... any more requires a wastegate. The vehicle was a 2800 LB Jeep CJ5 w/ 350 SBC and 350 Turbohydro w/ a HoleShot Converter. The short block was stock w/ 8.5 CR. & cast pistons and crankshaft. I used an Accel suck through setup with a 650 Holley and no intercooler with 3.5" exhaust to twin 2.5" turbo mufflers. The Turbo was an Air Research T04B V2 trim with .96 Turbine housing. I was slightly restricted on both the intake and exhaust sides to control Boost. No other boost control was used. From a standing start, I could not get boost in low gear (turbo 350) because of the relatively stock 12" converter and poor brakes to load the motor. Second gear was like low all over again. With the exhaust open, the 15 lb. boost gauge would slap the stop (chipped the red paint on the needle) with the shift, then drift back to 13 lbs. Once rolling, it was like the boost gauge was connected to the gas pedal, instant response. It had a tremendous amount of torque. You never had to downshift. Roll into the throttle at 50 MPH in high and 80 was a blink away. Just a whoosh like a small jet aircraft taking off. No fuss, just pushes you back in the seat. At 4000 RPM, it started to tail off, 4500 was time to shift, and 5000 RPM was ALL DONE, like a potato in the exhaust, boy did it wheeze. I went through two crankshafts before I learned to control DETONATION. Keep spark @ 30-32 deg over 3000 RPM, retard spark from 2000-3000 a lot. Added water injection, (a pressurized tank and windshield washer tubing and squirter into the turbine inlet--- .080 hole) which helped a lot. Most engines will not detonate over 3000 rpm, but less advance is needed because of the increased fuel density. The short block was a stock 8.5 CR w/ cast pistons and crankshaft. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 00:11:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21767 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:11:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21763 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:11:36 -0400 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id 7SAVa14124 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <360b07a1.35ecc521@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:10:09 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 40 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-09-01 08:47:32 EDT, you write: << Subj: RE: Renault F1 V10 Date: 98-09-01 08:47:32 EDT From: mtk@tmc.astm.cmri.cmu.edu (Michael Kasimirsky) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > All this talk about where injectors should go reminded me of > a video I have. It's about the Renault F1 V10 engine. > It's about the engine development Renault conducted for the > Williams team back in '96. First off, I would LOVE to see that video... Care to get in the video rental business? :-) Where did you get this video? I'd really like to get my hands on a copy of this. Can you see the throttle assemblies? I'd like to see the barrel throttles that are used on F1 engines. > Anyway, there is a section which has the engine running on a > dyno, and a close up of it showed what looked like the > injectors sitting on top of the trumpets, spraying fluid into > the trumpets. Amazing stuff, but they never explained why > these injectors were positioned above the trumpets instead of > the usual place. From what I understand, the injectors are mounted in that location to try and improve the quality of the mixture. An F1 engine turns 17,000 rpm and consequently has very little time for injection of fuel and atomization of same. So they mount the injectors above the intake velocity stack to give the fuel some extra time and distance to get mixed with the incoming air. Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider FASTTRAX & WERA Novice #22 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports, Bridgestone, mtk@tmc.astm.cmri.cmu.edu Street & Competition, and AGV. >> Yes I would love to see this video also....whats the rental fee?????? -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 00:12:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21778 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:12:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21774 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:12:19 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-131.mtco.com [206.69.130.131]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id XAA20485 for ; Tue, 1 Sep 1998 23:12:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35ECC5EF.1F9637F4@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 23:13:35 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of References: <01BDD54C.6A379420@mg-20425422-78.ricochet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry for the late reply. Here's another $.02. If I can get a faster flame front, I can reduce timing and torque loss from compressing burning gasoline BTDC. I might even be able to reduce detonation.......If I could make the charge burn really fast (not detonate), I could time the engine ATDC..... You guys seem way ahead of me, so keep us all posted... Tom. Chris Conlon wrote: > Greg wrote: > > > The neatest thing about it is that I see no reason not to stab the > > Orbital air assisted injectors (the actual fuel injectors, which, > > in turn, plug into them, are standard stuff) into the existing > > bungs on an existing TPI engine and go from there. > > ... > > Orbital claims maximum droplet size of 8 microns coming out of > > the injector. Obviously, if these units can direct inject, they > > are quick enough to match injection with inhale in a TPI system > > without resorting to staged injectors. > > Presumably this means that these injectors have a minimum usable > "on" time a good bit lower than the usual 1-2 msec or so? (Or does > the engine have a fairly low ratio of power at WOT to power at idle?) > > There are still several relationships and effects that I'm curious > about: > > Does a decreased droplet size lower the "effective" octane of a fuel > (by increasing flame speed, leading to an increased chance of > detonation)? Or is it all vapor by TDC anyway, regardless of droplet > size? > > To what extent is the fuel/air really homogeneous by TDC? On one hand > you have "stratified charge" engines, and OTOH your residual volume > is fairly small in an average-CR engine. > > Ignoring the issue of detonation, how ignitable are lean mixtures? Or > rather, how lean can you make the mixture and still be able to ignite > it? What if you allow for a seriously powerful ignition, and/or bump > the CR up a lot? It seems a bit weird to me that lean mixtures are > more prone to detonation (which indicates to me a mixture near > optimum, or near one of perhaps 2 optimums) and also considered to > be hard to ignite - or is that only at a *much* leaner A/F ratio? > > (I realize this is heading towards a diesel or GDI engine, I just > wonder if any of those efficiencies can be brought to a TPI setup.) > > Also I'd really love to find some reference that maps flame speed > and the detonation line, flame temperature, charge density and A/F > ratio for gasoline over a wide range. (Not just near stoich.) In > the past I was involved in making explosives, and all this kind of > data was easy to find, but this was mostly for solid and some liquid > explosives. I did get to make some air-fuel explosives, but not many, > and never really had nice complete data as for more conventional > systems. > > My experience there left me with a few good rules of thumb; I'm sure > some of them apply here but doubt that they all do: > > Fine grain size (in a mixture) increases flame speed. Grain shape > (in a composite) will have a profound effect on flame speed, and > often on an explosive's tendency to detonate. (We probably only > get one grain shape, spherical, which is regressive-burning, i.e. > the burn rate slows as it goes.) > > Almost anything that burns really well can be made to detonate if > you have enough of it, under enough pressure, hot enough, and with > a strong enough initiation. Gas in an engine is obviously not too > very far from this limit under normal conditions. > > There's a grey area (of pressure, density, temperature, flame speed) > within which an explosive might burn or it might detonate. Some > explosives easily go from burning to detonation, some do not. Pressure > helps make this transition. (Gas engines, again, are often in this > grey area.) Sometimes this grey area may be a very wide area indeed. > A very strong initiation (shock wave) can decisively ensure that the > explosive will detonate, not burn. > > In a mixture, mixtures close to stoich are usually *in the neighborhood > of* the most-easily-detonated mixture. > > Ok if you've suffered my post this far I'll give up my silly/brilliant > idea for people to poke holes in or run with: > > Take the engine of your choice > Add the air-assisted injectors, or outright LPG injection. You're > gonna need all the octane you can get > Raise the CR way way up > Have your chosen head-work Guru redo the head, bearing in mind > the high CR. > Run the hottest ignition you can find or build (probably build) > Ceramic coat the piston/bore/head > Run the engine way lean > Run water/methanol injection to control detonation / EGT / NOx formation > > I like the idea of squeezing a lot out of a given displacement, and out > of a given amount of fuel... what I don't know is if this is at all > workable. Maybe I'll have to wait for GDI after all. > > Comments appreciated, > Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 01:15:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22479 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:15:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from stimpy.fp.co.nz (stimpy.fp.co.nz [202.12.105.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22475 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:15:03 -0400 Received: from minor.fp.co.nz (minor [97.1.1.12]) by stimpy.fp.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13031 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:14:58 +1200 (NZST) Received: from psc.fp.co.nz by minor.fp.co.nz (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with ESMTP id RAA01619 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:14:57 +1200 Message-Id: <199809020514.RAA01619@minor.fp.co.nz> Received: from SCRATCHY/SpoolDir by psc.fp.co.nz (Mercury 1.31); 2 Sep 98 17:16:40 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by SCRATCHY (Mercury 1.31); 2 Sep 98 17:16:15 +1100 From: "Tony Bryant" Organization: Fisher & Paykel PSC To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:16:08 +1200 Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q Priority: normal In-reply-to: <007801bdd623$1ac41760$24198fd1@nacelp> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > that I am, I took the catalog to a wreckers, and poked around > till I gathered the modules. $5 a piece. then tried each one to find > the limits of it's detection, and then worked the timing curves > around till no knock triggered, heard, or seen in plug cuts. > Turns out my v-8 SBC uses a 350 SBC sensor, and a Buick > v-6 ESC Module. Works fine thankyou very much. > Same ascoutic footprint?, I don't know. Do I care?, no. Bottom line > is that it works as it should. > Cheers > Bruce > I'm intrigued by the phrase "or seen in plug cuts"; what does a plug shown when there's been knocking? From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 01:49:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22795 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:49:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA22791 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:49:46 -0400 Received: from mg-20425420-49.ricochet.net (mg-20425420-49.ricochet.net [204.254.20.49]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA06685 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:49:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mg-20425420-49.ricochet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BDD614.37F78420@mg-20425420-49.ricochet.net>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:51:36 -0400 Message-ID: <01BDD614.37F78420@mg-20425420-49.ricochet.net> From: Chris Conlon To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: RE: air-assisted injectors, sort of Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:51:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg wrote: > >Presumably this means that these injectors have a minimum usable > >"on" time a good bit lower than the usual 1-2 msec or so? (Or does > >the engine have a fairly low ratio of power at WOT to power at idle?) > > More like the injector has a rather longer time to fill the pre-chamber > with a metered amount of fuel, then the compressed air takes the > (pre-metered amount of) fuel past the air valve quite quickly. The actual But doesn't the issue of power ratio (or turndown ratio) still apply here? How is it that these direct-injection devices can supply enough fuel for WOT in 1 or 2 strokes out of 4 (max 50% duty cycle) and still be able to open briefly enough to produce a good idle? Or am I misunderstanding the injection-window for GDI engines? > >Ignoring the issue of detonation, how ignitable are lean mixtures? Or > > 17 or 18 to 1 is the limit of flammability for a homogeneous mixture, no > matter how hot the spark. Does this depend on CR? I would expect a very hot, high pressure mixture to sustain burning better than a cooler, lower pressure mixture at the same A/F ratio. (I could see it being a lot harder to ignite, though.) > > I just wonder if any of those efficiencies can be brought to a TPI setup. > > I wasn't thinking of bringing the lean mixture efficiencies to a TPI > setup--you need the stratified charge effect for that. All I would hope for > is the improved fuel economy and power due to better fuel atomization and > reduction of compression work by evaporating a higher percentage of the > fuel during the compression stroke. I think that both gains would be > significant--and, although this is unexplored territory, no-one has come > forward with any wagers against it yet. I do agree with you that there are gains to be made in these areas. I have no real idea how to *calculate* what these gains might be though. My own line of questioning is pointing down a different road; I think there may be a lean operating point (with water injection) which could give even better BSFC and still low emissions. > As to your thoughts on detonation: > > My SUBJECTIVE feelings on it are that there is a critical > P-T-mixture ratio for any given fuel above which detonation will occur, > but that there is also a (material and conditions specific) time delay > involved. Once you get the mixture above the critical point, the > countdown starts, then after a certain time , it detonates. This feel > is based on a lot of engine tuning. Also a bit of (field) experience > working with explosives I'd say this is pretty close, but I'd amend it a little bit. The pressure and temp will be going up (mostly) during combustion, and IMO the shape and peak of this P-T graph is mostly what pushes the engine into detonation. The shape of the combustion chamber can have a big effect because of the burning rate curve - look at how the flame front expands through the charge, and see *how much* mixture is burning at any one time, and see how the *amount* of flame front area changes over time. This is the gas engine equivalent of "grain shape" that I didn't realize last night. Anyway my experience is that pressure and temperature by themselves can be enough to cause detonation, and that the temp/pressure rise as combustion progresses is mostly responsible for detonation due to high CR or advanced timing. One example is smokeless powder (modern gunpowder) in a gun barrel. It has to burn; detonation is as bad for a gun as an engine. But if the projectile should get jammed in the barrel, the rapid pressure rise can cause the powder to go from burning to detonation, with often disastrous results. > My experience with engines seems to indicate that if you can get the burn > over with quickly (as a result of short flame travel, mixture motion, and > mixture turbulence, as opposed to fast flame travel) the chances of getting > detonation are VASTLY reduced, the need for ignition advance is also > reduced, and BSFC is improved. > > I have actually worked with an 11.5 : 1 C.R. engine whose chambers were > conducive to the above mentioned things happening, and I observed the > following: It would run on 101 octane (unleaded) with 45 degrees of total > advance with no detonation whatsoever, but it made its best power with only > 32 degrees of total advance. Otherwise the same, but with different chamber > shapes, the same engine did not make as much power, and could knock its > brains out on 104 octane. Power was still increasing with increasing > advance with more than 40 degrees, but detonation prevented going any > further whilst looking for more power. Eeeeh... part of me wants to say that if you look at the pressure profiles in each chamber, you'll find that the bad chamber had a higher pressure (static or dynamic) due to the shape, or increased timing advance, and that pushed the mix over into detonation. But OTOH you could be exactly right, it may be that if the flame front (which probably does not burn all the fuel) moves very quickly through the mix, the residual A/F mix (which is still burning, really) is much less able to be detonated even at a higher pressure/temp. It would be very interesting to see pressure vs. time profiles for each of those 2 head designs, and figure out the burn rate profile as well. It sounds to me like the good chamber burned so quickly the peak pressure lined up well with the optimum time to "push" on the piston, and the bad chamber burned more slowly so more advance was needed to try and get peak pressre at the optimum time. > Does your experience working with explosives back up any of what I > have (kind of lamely) tried to say here? Yes, or at least it gives us more parts of the puzzle. Unfortunately explosives makers are more interested in reliable, repeatable, definite detonation, rather than the grey area where a mixture might burn or might trip over into detonation. I can tell you, though, that *shock* is 1000x better at causing detonation that heat or static pressure. Nitroglycerin, in the open, will simply burn, as will a great many explosives. But add confinement, sometimes even the slight confinement of a largish pile of the substance, and it may trip over into detonation. (This depends greatly on the explosive; I'm sure you've heard of soldiers using TNT or C4 to heat their food.) Anyway this suggests that if the mixture is burning while it's still being compressed, this might cause more detonation than igniting the mixture at a higher (but stable or decreasing) pressure. Aka too much ignition advance. Huh... think I'll call my head-work Guru and see what he has to say about burn rate vs. knock resistance. Very interesting. Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 03:18:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA23595 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:18:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gateway.subcorp.com.au (gateway.subcorp.com.au [203.28.5.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA23591 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:18:08 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gateway.subcorp.com.au (8.7.6/8.7.3) id RAA07760 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:01:28 +0930 (CST) Received: from unknown(69.10.0.8) by gateway.subcorp.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma007756; Wed Sep 2 17:01:05 1998 Received: from marge.asc.com.au ([69.10.150.5]) by zaphod.asc.com.au (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17828 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:47:46 +0930 (CST) Received: by marge.asc.com.au with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) id <01BDD691.98476660@marge.asc.com.au>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:49:04 +0930 Message-ID: From: "West, David" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: temperature sensors Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 16:43:42 +0930 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all, Does any know if there is there is a kit available that enables you to measure temperature. I want to measure both inlet and outlet temperature through my intercooler but don't really want to pay AUS$150 for a dual thermo-couple readout unless there is no other alternative. I just built a EGO meter and that works rather well. I am keen to see if there is a temp kit similar. Kind regards, David West From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 05:53:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA24955 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:53:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from MAIL2 ([193.220.96.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA24951 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:52:59 -0400 Received: from post.bip.net - 193.220.96.11 by mail.bip.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:52:51 +0200 Received: from Rolle.telia.com - 195.242.62.81 by post.bip.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1774.114.11); Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:53:12 +0200 From: "Roland Johansson" To: Subject: SV: temperature sensors Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:43:51 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <099da1253090298MAIL4@post.bip.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At least after the IC a cheap home termometer with a wire to outdoor sensor could be working. They have a temperature range of -30 -> +80 degrees Celsius and hopefully you wont be running hotter air. Might not be 100% accurate but show close to. Try one before the IC to, if it burns you haven't lost much money. Roland Johansson Scirocco 1,6l TIC -82 > > Hello all, > > Does any know if there is there is a kit available that enables you to > measure temperature. > > I want to measure both inlet and outlet temperature through my > intercooler but don't really want to pay AUS$150 for a dual > thermo-couple readout unless there is no other alternative. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 06:14:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA25180 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:14:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA25176 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:13:59 -0400 Received: from 205.215.232.35 (surf28.cruzers.com [205.215.232.28]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA03776 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35ED24E9.81@cruzers.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 02:59:16 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: Wide range lambda sensor Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Here's some info about the Honda sensor gleaned from a troubleshooting and repair manual: One position of the 8 pin connector isn't used. Two positions go to [each end of] the heater element. These are not connected to any of the other wires. Another two positions go to [both ends of] the calibration resistor. These also do not connect to any other wires. The last three connections go to the sensor/pump elements - one to a common junction, one to the sensor, and one to the pump. None of the five calibration and sensor connections are interconnected. Also, none of them are grounded or connected to a constant power supply. The expected voltage range at any of these points is probably 0 to 5 volts. The heater element seems to be operated on 7 volts. One end is grounded via the wiring harness. The ECM sources 7 volts into the other end. This is different than all the other Honda HEGO applications. The other HEGOs are all connected to the battery voltage (nominally 12 volts) with the ECM sinking to ground, presumably to measure the current to set a malfunction flag. The resistance specs for the heater, compared to regular HEGOs, confirm that it should be run on something like 7 volts. (Assuming that all heaters need to be about the same wattage.) I can only come up with two possible reasons for the 7 volts: A high power quick heatup cycle. However, the trouble shooting flow chart did not attempt to exclude any such cycles when checking for the 7 volts. A need to have a fully heated and operating sensor even during cranking and when the battery is very low. A caution: the troubleshooting guide did not specify how each circuit was supposed to operate. It merely listed the minimum number of checks needed to identify the bad component. Deducing the operation required reading between the lines. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 06:48:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA25551 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:48:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA25547 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:48:17 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-48.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.117]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id GAA14513 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005601bdd65f$a37605a0$75198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:51:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Tony Bryant To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 1:37 AM Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q > >> that I am, I took the catalog to a wreckers, and poked around >> till I gathered the modules. $5 a piece. then tried each one to find >> the limits of it's detection, and then worked the timing curves >> around till no knock triggered, heard, or seen in plug cuts. >> Turns out my v-8 SBC uses a 350 SBC sensor, and a Buick >> v-6 ESC Module. Works fine thankyou very much. >> Same ascoutic footprint?, I don't know. Do I care?, no. Bottom line >> is that it works as it should. >> Cheers >> Bruce >> > >I'm intrigued by the phrase "or seen in plug cuts"; what does a plug >shown when there's been knocking? > > Looks like little tiny fly turds on the center porcelan. Just about need a magnifier/jeweler's loupe to see em. May also look kinda like pepper flakes, real fine. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 07:46:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA26101 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:46:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from nhj.nlc.net.au (Nz5zVkW9kyVzhrbxrRrWHg7TAwu1iD7G@nhj.nlc.net.au [203.24.133.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA26097 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:46:05 -0400 Received: (qmail 11801 invoked from network); 2 Sep 1998 21:45:49 +1000 Received: from dialine63.nlc.net.au (HELO ants) (203.24.133.58) by nhj.nlc.net.au with SMTP; 2 Sep 1998 21:45:49 +1000 Received: by ants with Microsoft Mail id <01BDD6BA.CE1CFFB0@ants>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:44:04 +1000 Message-ID: <01BDD6BA.CE1CFFB0@ants> From: ants To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Renault F1 V10 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:43:48 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id HAA26098 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >First off, I would LOVE to see that video... Care to get in the video >rental business? :-) >Where did you get this video? I'd really like to get my hands on a copy >of this. Opps, I forgot to mention I am from Australia. Anyway, the video is called (roughly translated from french): "438 seconds for the title" although it's narrated in English I think it's 1994 vintage (has it been that long...) and it runs for 17mins. and it's PAL format. It's also got the Williams factory with demos of the Active suspension and sequential gearbox. It came about when Channel 9's (Aust. TV network) Wide World of Sport showed this after a GP, and was inundated with calls as to where they could get a copy or if they could replay it again. Well they ended up marketing it through (of all people) Volvo Marketing, and we could buy it for $25.00 So you see, I think I would be violating copyright if I digitize this for everyone to see, or if I make copies of it. I can't see how I could rent it out to the U.S:) Maybe if a return envelope with a tape in it finds it's way into my mailbox.... Anthony. (just bought up this thread for a potential new location of injectors). From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 07:47:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA26114 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:47:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA26110 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:47:57 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-203.nordson.com [207.206.59.203]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA23827 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01bdd667$6c945d40$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: air-assisted injectors, sort of Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:46:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Faster burn rate will help those things but at some point, too fast a burn rate makes the engine run rough. Running really lean to reduce pumping losses helps economy but so does a taller gear that causes the engine to operate at low rpm and low vacuum. Its good to have more than one way to reduce pumping loss. NASCAR restrictor plate engines, used at Talledega and Daytona, have considerable vacuum in the intake manifold at full throttle. A lot of engine development work is directed at reducing the backflow into the intake when the intake valve opens. Gary Derian From: Tom Sharpe >Sorry for the late reply. Here's another $.02. If I can get a faster flame >front, I can reduce timing and torque loss from compressing burning gasoline >BTDC. I might even be able to reduce detonation.......If I could make the >charge burn really fast (not detonate), I could time the engine ATDC..... >You guys seem way ahead of me, so keep us all posted... Tom. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 08:25:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26626 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:25:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26621 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:25:39 -0400 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id FAA09877 for <@external-mail-relay.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 05:24:08 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id IAA22320; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:25:35 -0400 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id IAA09837 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:25:34 -0400 From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9809020825.ZM9835@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:25:33 -0400 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: ignition miss Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a 1989 TransAm GTA with the 5.7L MAF TPI. I believe it's a 165 ECM, right? :) well, having a problem... the other day I re-timed my car. set the timing back about 3-4 degrees to make the pinging go higher in the RPM band (it worked). Now, however, I'm getting an intermittent ignition problem: It cuts out on me occasionally, like once a second for several seconds in a row. I fear that I might have caused an intermittent open in one of the wires (reference lead maybe?) as the tach drops when I get the miss. Today on my way to work the car was really bad... it was doing a lot of cutting out, frustrating me greatly. Today the tach was NOT dipping, but the speedometer was jumping up. If I put the car in neutral and floor it, it revs up to about 6500 (won't go any higher now, used to easily hit over 7000) and the speedometer jumps up to 140. So, do I have a failing ECM? VSS buffer? Something else? None of the other gauges seem affected by this, and the SES light does not come on. No codes are set, either. If I get the miss at idle or while just starting from idle, the engine dies and I have to re-start. *sigh* suggestions? Thanks! From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 08:57:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA27076 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:57:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu (smtp@berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.63.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA27072 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:57:14 -0400 Received: from joust.rs.itd.umich.edu (smtp@joust.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.63.86]) by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.8/4.3-mailhub) with ESMTP id IAA24983 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (fparker@localhost) by joust.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.8/5.1-client) with SMTP id IAA17052 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:57:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:57:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank F Parker X-Sender: fparker@joust.rs.itd.umich.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q In-Reply-To: <005601bdd65f$a37605a0$75198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >I'm intrigued by the phrase "or seen in plug cuts"; what does a plug > >shown when there's been knocking? > > > > > Looks like little tiny fly turds on the center porcelan. Just about > need a magnifier/jeweler's loupe to see em. May also look > kinda like pepper flakes, real fine. > Cheers > Bruce > Bruce, Is this true for unleaded gas- in other words are the flakes lead deposits? regards, frank From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 09:40:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27531 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:40:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27527 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:40:01 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.235]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980902133959.FGRQ21955@malinda> for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:39:59 +0000 Message-ID: <35ED4CF6.7A9DA1BD@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 09:49:43 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Frank F Parker wrote: > > >I'm intrigued by the phrase "or seen in plug cuts"; what does a > plug > > >shown when there's been knocking? > > > > > > > > Looks like little tiny fly turds on the center porcelan. Just about > > > need a magnifier/jeweler's loupe to see em. May also look > > kinda like pepper flakes, real fine. > > Cheers > > Bruce > > > Bruce, > > Is this true for unleaded gas- in other words are the flakes lead > deposits? Melted pieces of the piston sticking on the plug, .... Not you see why detonation is bad... couple that with a lean mixture and poof you have burned piston.... JTW -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 10:18:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28028 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:18:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from algw2.lucent.com (algw2.lucent.com [205.147.213.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA28023 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:18:38 -0400 Received: from nwmail.wh.lucent.com by alig2.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id KAA06888; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:28:53 -0400 Received: by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id KAA04358; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:18:37 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id KAA04350; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:18:36 -0400 Message-ID: <35ED52A2.A3D1E1EE@lucent.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 10:13:54 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en]C-EMS-1.3.1 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I thought the flakes were pieces of the piston, and when you see them it's almost too late. Ken Frank F Parker wrote: > > > >I'm intrigued by the phrase "or seen in plug cuts"; what does a plug > > >shown when there's been knocking? > > > > > > > > Looks like little tiny fly turds on the center porcelan. Just about > > need a magnifier/jeweler's loupe to see em. May also look > > kinda like pepper flakes, real fine. > > Cheers > > Bruce > > > Bruce, > > Is this true for unleaded gas- in other words are the flakes lead > deposits? > > regards, > frank From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 11:17:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28631 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:17:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28626 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:17:50 -0400 Received: from localhost (chickens@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/piglet.mc-1.4) with SMTP id KAA24810 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:17:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:17:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jake Sternberg X-Sender: chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: temperature sensors In-Reply-To: <199809020900.FAA24433@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I want to measure both inlet and outlet temperature through my > intercooler but don't really want to pay AUS$150 for a dual > thermo-couple readout unless there is no other alternative. > > David West you could take two GM intake air temp sensors (three wire devices i think? 5v supply?) and mount one before and one after, then use a digital multimeter with a switch. voltages translate linearly to temperatures, but you'd have to figure out two temperatures to figure out actual degrees. on the upside, there is no cheaper way to do it. oh, you can use water temp gauges for the readouts too, but their range is not necessarily what you're looking for. GM air temp and coolant temp sensors (on modern vehicles) have the same connector and same voltage-temperature map. -jake From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 11:47:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28982 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:47:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ch4.viperlink.net (ch4.viperlink.net [209.136.106.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA28977 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:47:28 -0400 Received: from dapiper.viperlink.com (dialin-espr172.viperlink.com [209.136.107.172]) by ch4.viperlink.net (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA02469 for ; Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:45:30 -0400 Message-Id: <199809021545.LAA02469@ch4.viperlink.net> X-Sender: dapiper@mail.one.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 11:51:06 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: David Piper Subject: Re: temperature sensors Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi David I use a Cyberdyne gauge/sensors and switch to read my I/C in/out temps. Avail from JCW or direct. TurboDave At 04:43 PM 9/2/98 +0930, you wrote: >Hello all, > >Does any know if there is there is a kit available that enables you to >measure temperature. > >I want to measure both inlet and outlet temperature through my >intercooler but don't really want to pay AUS$150 for a dual >thermo-couple readout unless there is no other alternative. > >I just built a EGO meter and that works rather well. I am keen to see >if there is a temp kit similar. > >Kind regards, > >David West > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 12:07:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29457 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:07:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.earthworld.com (COMET.ethergate.com [209.210.7.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA29453 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:07:49 -0400 Received: from dialup-9-068.ethergate.net [209.210.9.68] by mail.earthworld.com (SMTPD32-4.04) id AD344C6B026C; Wed, 02 Sep 1998 09:07:16 PDT Message-ID: <35ED6007.2F15@earthworld.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:11:03 -0700 From: Jon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Dallas Semiconductor References: <01e001bdd5ea$b55ee2c0$68198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Do you mean the NV SRAMs? Several people make them. They are readily available in the US. Whaday want? TVR Jon From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 14:07:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA31144 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:07:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA31140 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:07:00 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-57.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.57]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id LAA17392 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35ED602C.7BF5@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:11:40 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: temperature sensors References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Kits I don't know about, but thermistors are cheap (>$2 USD). Be a good diy design project. If you need more info ask. Regards, Jack West, David wrote: > I want to measure both inlet and outlet temperature through my > intercooler but don't really want to pay AUS$150 for a dual > thermo-couple readout unless there is no other alternative. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 14:39:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA31741 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:39:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA31737 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:39:09 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm5-173.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.173]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16626 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 12:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35ED9107.AB8BB842@mcn.net> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 12:40:07 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Sizing: REALLY dumb question References: <199809011450.JAA13690@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > More like infamous. > > Ever hear of the "fish" (or some variation) carburetor? > > > Yes, do you still have your weird and strange carb. book of forgotten > patents or something, I lost mine many moons ago. > Warning to inventors on this list > One of these inventors did a Jimmy Hoffa. > GM rules. > alex I have some stuff... I keep copies of things like this. Urban legends claimed that the "fish" was built near an area where I lived, and one of the people involved was the father of a local hardware and lumber man. Never tracked it down, though. Supposedly one of those guys pulled a "vanishing act", too. You know how local legends can be, though. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 14:55:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA32138 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:55:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from chexchange1.sidley.com (chexchange1.sidley.com [198.232.35.207]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA32134 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 14:55:23 -0400 Received: by chexchange1.sidley.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:55:24 -0500 Message-ID: <2CBF8F15FC0DD2119E6C0080D8700AA1577FA7@chexchange1.sidley.com> From: "Dupree, Robert A." To: "DIY_EFI (E-mail)" Subject: EFI on Single Piston Engine? Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:55:20 -0500 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've been wondering if anyone (private or manufacturer) has built an EFI system for single piston small displacement engines? I'm looking for something to work with small Briggs&Stratton engines (5-10hp) all the way up to maybe a 125cc watercooled motorcylce engine. Let Me Know Bob Dupree From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 15:50:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA00282 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:50:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00278 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:50:40 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-11.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.29]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id PAA13156 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:50:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009c01bdd6ab$67de1040$1d198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q//Plug Readings Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:53:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Frank F Parker To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 9:25 AM Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q >> >I'm intrigued by the phrase "or seen in plug cuts"; what does a plug >> >shown when there's been knocking? >> > >> > >> Looks like little tiny fly turds on the center porcelan. Just about >> need a magnifier/jeweler's loupe to see em. May also look >> kinda like pepper flakes, real fine. >> Cheers >> Bruce >> >Bruce, > >Is this true for unleaded gas- in other words are the flakes lead >deposits? Actually it's aluminum, off the piston dome. I heard a real good explaination of it one time, but the ole gray matter is sufferin some, BUT, the world ionization was mentioned several times........ With lots of practice ya can read it in any common fuel. Did some Alky motor stuff, and it showed up there to. FWIW, some fuels make it harder to see, ie Shell, with the Mangese, if they still use that stuff (pinkish tones to center porcelian). Might also look for corners of the center electrode rounding quickly (Autolite's seem to least have this problem). Cheers Bruce Ya can't get Bashful outta the car when he hears the words High Gear Plug Cuts. Usually rough things out in 1:1, and then go final in OD. > >regards, >frank > From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 18:08:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01550 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:08:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01546 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:07:59 -0400 From: PFMaxin@aol.com Received: from PFMaxin@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id 7KQLa09042 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c77c65f.35edc178@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:06:48 EDT To: DIY_EFI (E-mail) Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there software available for modifying the fuel map of a GM type TPI fuel injection system? Are there any books, articles etc discribing how to connect a laptop to a GM type fuel injection system via parallel port or serial port in lieu of PROM to change(tune) operating parameter map?? I am trying to adapt a salvaged GM TPI system to a six cylinder engine which has spent all its life carburated. I am sure with all the clever guys out there subscribing to this site someone must have already accomplished this feat. Any help appreciated. Paul From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 18:07:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01545 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:07:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01541 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:07:33 -0400 From: PFMaxin@aol.com Received: from PFMaxin@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id 7LMNa10121 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14b152e8.35edc17e@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:06:54 EDT To: DIY_EFI (E-mail) Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 52 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there software available for modifying the fuel map of a GM type TPI fuel injection system? Are there any books, articles etc discribing how to connect a laptop to a GM type fuel injection system via parallel port or serial port in lieu of PROM to change(tune) operating parameter map?? I am trying to adapt a salvaged GM TPI system to a six cylinder engine which has spent all its life carburated. I am sure with all the clever guys out there subscribing to this site someone must have already accomplished this feat. Any help appreciated. Paul From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 19:21:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02598 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02594 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:53 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-154.mtco.com [206.69.130.154]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA01536 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:21:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EDD1F4.B41696F5@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:17:08 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg Hermann wrote: > My > >understanding > >is that it's a concoction of Benzene, Tolulene, etc. > > Don't forget the Xylene--the nastiest and most carcinogenic of the bunch, > unless, of course some or all of the above are nitrated to one degree and > percentage or another!!! Then there are other neat things like hydrazine. > Try reading a book about the things Werner Von Braun put into V-2's and > some of his later rockets. Also try reading some stuff about torpedo motor > fuels. Neat, but don't sniff it. > > Regards, Greg > > and other nasty > >stuff that isn't usually > >a large part of pump gas. > > > >It may be lead-free, but it's not pump gas. I have some experience with Hydrazine in gasoline.... in nitro, it breaks the chem. bonds and after 15 min in the sun, turns into a class A explosive. In Gas, it acts like a combustion catalyst... 10cc/gal is plenty and it works. just watch the tach.. broken rods are expensive.. regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 19:21:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02587 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02580 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:50 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-154.mtco.com [206.69.130.154]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA31657; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:21:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EDD0E8.9FC12989@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:12:40 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Turbocharging a natural gas engine References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jake Sternberg wrote: > Compressed natural gas has an octane rating around 120 + > > turbocharging an engine using natural gas makes sense > because natural gas costs about 35-40 cents per "gallon" > in your home and about 65 cents per "gallon" at a gas station > (if you don't have a 3600 PSI pump at your house). > > many cities in the US offer a rebate to convert your vehicle > to natural gas, like Austin, texas. here, i can convert for > free. > > (* a "gallon" of compressed natural gas is the amount of CNG with > the equivalent energy of a gallon of gasoline) Good points except that street cars are generally "crusing" where turbos don't helpBSFC, however very high compression does....... then you can't run as dual fuel.Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 19:21:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02604 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02600 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:55 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-154.mtco.com [206.69.130.154]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA00200 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:21:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EDD234.4F2A7C7F@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:18:12 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Dallas Semiconductor References: <01e001bdd5ea$b55ee2c0$68198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Try Tech America 1-800-442-7221 Bruce Plecan wrote: > Anybody know where some one can buy this brand of chips?. > Looking for prices on some SRAM. > TIA > Bruce Staffers all inna flurry at the mention of torpedos after > skiing incident. Doc ain't been right since the trooper > explained how dangerous skiing behind a boat being > towed onna dirt road could be.. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 19:21:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02579 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02574 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:48 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-154.mtco.com [206.69.130.154]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA31657; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:21:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EDD0E8.9FC12989@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:12:40 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Turbocharging a natural gas engine References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jake Sternberg wrote: > Compressed natural gas has an octane rating around 120 + > > turbocharging an engine using natural gas makes sense > because natural gas costs about 35-40 cents per "gallon" > in your home and about 65 cents per "gallon" at a gas station > (if you don't have a 3600 PSI pump at your house). > > many cities in the US offer a rebate to convert your vehicle > to natural gas, like Austin, texas. here, i can convert for > free. > > (* a "gallon" of compressed natural gas is the amount of CNG with > the equivalent energy of a gallon of gasoline) Good points except that street cars are generally "crusing" where turbos don't helpBSFC, however very high compression does....... then you can't run as dual fuel.Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 19:21:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02592 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:52 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA02588 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:21:51 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-154.mtco.com [206.69.130.154]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA02176 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:21:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EDD0EE.A8BE977@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:12:46 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg Hermann wrote: > >Good point. I'm contemplating a similar situation - FI'ing a > >single-port VW bus app. The dual-ports breathe better, but the > >single-port heads don't crack ... > > > >Regards, Jack > > > >Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > >> > >> isn't an L-Jettronic a 4 cyl FI, (4 injectors) ? > >> with an mgb head and the Siamesed intake ports, wouldn't that be an issue ? > > First reaction---OOOOPPS! > Second reaction--might could be able to put two injectors in each port and > make it work pretty durn well. > > Regards, Greg The old 1600 DP EFI VW had ?? circuits.....You could reverse the wires to the injectors and it always ran the same... even side to side. I built a lo...ong intake with a Ford 2bbl where the tubes met in the middle like a header collector. It would RPM and still eat clutches. Best running (stock) VW I ever saw. Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 20:23:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03794 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:23:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oramail.orausa.com ([204.140.232.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03790 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:23:32 -0400 Received: by ORAMAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:22:54 -0700 Message-ID: <618805C5F139D211A06F00104B8942F00118F7@ORAMAIL> From: Alex Samson To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:22:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDD6D0.FDDF6D40" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD6D0.FDDF6D40 Content-Type: text/plain On Sept 1, Paul said: > Is there software available for modifying the fuel map of a GM type TPI > fuel injection system? Are there any books, articles etc discribing how to Personally, I find it better to start from scratch and build a new ECU from ground up because I do not get boxed in by the limited information available. One could also use some off-the-shelf industrial microcontroller with your choice of CPU and full documentation. Wouldnt it be great if we could actually review the software source codes for those GM boxes? Likewise, I think it takes too much trouble to decompile the firmware to produce the source code. Whaa? The guy just wants to change a carburetor, and we are talking software?? Sometimes, I miss the good old days when we had a collection of main jets for a hobby. Cheers, alex samson ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD6D0.FDDF6D40 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map

On Sept 1, Paul said:
>  Is there software available for = modifying the fuel map of a GM type TPI
> fuel injection = system?  Are there any books, articles etc discribing how = to

Personally, I find it better to start = from scratch and build a new ECU from ground up because I do not get = boxed in by the limited information available.  One could also use = some off-the-shelf industrial microcontroller with your choice of CPU = and full documentation.   Wouldnt it be great if we could = actually review the software source codes for those GM boxes? Likewise, = I think it takes too much trouble to decompile the firmware to produce = the source code.  Whaa?  The guy just wants to change a = carburetor, and we are talking software??  Sometimes, I miss the = good old days when we had a collection of main jets for a hobby.  =

Cheers,
alex samson

------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD6D0.FDDF6D40-- From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 20:29:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03857 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:29:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03853 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:29:24 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA01584 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:28:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809030028.TAA01584@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny5-02.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.130) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma001542; Wed Sep 2 19:28:13 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:45:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: temperature sensors Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199809021545.LAA02469@ch4.viperlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Look into thermistors, Omega engineering handbook has some circuits and app notes. All you need is reference voltage and voltmeter. A possible circuit is inlet outlet difference. alex > >Does any know if there is there is a kit available that enables you to > >measure temperature. > > > >I want to measure both inlet and outlet temperature through my > >intercooler but don't really want to pay AUS$150 for a dual > >thermo-couple readout unless there is no other alternative. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 20:29:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03871 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:29:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03867 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:29:51 -0400 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id 7OXUa17586 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:26:56 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <72642bd3.35ede250@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:26:56 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I use unleaded gas and get little specs on the porcelan, as Bruce describes when I have deto from too much boost, so I don't think it is lead (at least in my case).. How did he get the flies to...... MV In a message dated 9/2/98 9:15:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fparker@umich.edu writes: > > Looks like little tiny fly turds on the center porcelan. Just about > > need a magnifier/jeweler's loupe to see em. May also look > > kinda like pepper flakes, real fine. > > Cheers > > Bruce > > > Bruce, > > Is this true for unleaded gas- in other words are the flakes lead > deposits? > From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 20:40:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04085 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:40:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04081 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:40:17 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA26786 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:39:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809030039.TAA26786@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny5-02.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.130) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026766; Wed Sep 2 19:39:36 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:56:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Dallas Semiconductor Priority: normal In-reply-to: <35EDD234.4F2A7C7F@mtco.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Dallas NV or not cheap, you might try a 3V battery backup from Genovies and a SRAM alex > > Anybody know where some one can buy this brand of chips?. > > Looking for prices on some SRAM. > > TIA From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 20:43:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA04140 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:43:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA04136 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:43:32 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-39.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.57]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id UAA25459 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013701bdd6d4$5130b7c0$39198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:46:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: PFMaxin@aol.com To: DIY_EFI (E-mail) Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 6:27 PM Subject: Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map > Is there software available for modifying the fuel map of a GM type TPI >fuel injection system? The Turbo Shop, owner Steve Cole, So Calif, phone # archives. Are there any books, articles etc discribing how to >connect a laptop to a GM type fuel injection system via parallel port or >serial port in lieu of PROM to change(tune) operating parameter map?? Kalmaker, australia, they do have a web site. I am >trying to adapt a salvaged GM TPI system to a six cylinder engine which has >spent all its life carburated. I am sure with all the clever guys out there >subscribing to this site someone must have already accomplished this feat. Any >help appreciated. > > Paul > Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 21:31:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05087 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:31:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05080 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:31:09 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA22422 for mail_from ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:28:38 -0600 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:28:38 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Greg Hermann wrote: > >> My >> >understanding >> >is that it's a concoction of Benzene, Tolulene, etc. >> >> Don't forget the Xylene--the nastiest and most carcinogenic of the bunch, >> unless, of course some or all of the above are nitrated to one degree and >> percentage or another!!! Then there are other neat things like hydrazine. >> Try reading a book about the things Werner Von Braun put into V-2's and >> some of his later rockets. Also try reading some stuff about torpedo motor >> fuels. Neat, but don't sniff it. >> >> Regards, Greg >> >> and other nasty >> >stuff that isn't usually >> >a large part of pump gas. >> > >> >It may be lead-free, but it's not pump gas. > > I have some experience with Hydrazine in gasoline.... in nitro, it breaks >the chem. bonds and after 15 min in the sun, turns into a class A explosive. >In Gas, it acts like a combustion catalyst... 10cc/gal is plenty and it works. >just watch the tach.. broken rods are expensive.. >regards Tom Hi Guys--- After a bit more research, the mad chemist returns.. At the very least, ELF (a very common banner in F1) Racing fuel contains Propylene Oxide-- big time motorcycle racers have been disqualified for running Elf cuz it contains the stuff. Someone who knows told me that you need to go at least two jet sizes richer on a bike to run it. His comment was yeah, it's pump gas, allright, the question is , which pump? After all, it's a liquid, so you can pump it---isn't that what the rule means???? Some of the other goodies are as follows (who knows what is in current vogue): Analine (the middle name that goes with GAF, (the nice film people's initials) was the fuel used in buzz bombs. Hydrazine hydride UDMH (Unsymetrical DiMethyl Hydrazine) TEA (Tri-Ethyl Aluminium) Brown fuming Nitric Acid Most of these are unspeakably nasty stuff, most or all have gone into rocket motors, and probably more than a couple into torpedo motors. U-boat waffen commanders be damned, our own Navy guys didn't learn to call rot-gut whiskey "torpedo juice" from the Germans, they learned that one from our own guys who wear the dolphins on their chests!! Somehow, I don't think the Navy wants the EPA or others of their way of thinking to have any clue what kind of fish food they have been dumping into the drink, so torpedo fuels is kind of a quiet subject, even decades later. Yo Bruce-- hows the FBI doin' with those 747's--think we've distracted 'em yet??? I hope Timmy McVeigh hasn't found a way to get on this list, either! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 21:39:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05375 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:39:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ch4.viperlink.net (ch4.viperlink.net [209.136.106.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05371 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:39:17 -0400 Received: from dapiper.viperlink.com (dialin-espr205.viperlink.com [209.136.107.205]) by ch4.viperlink.net (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA00612 for ; Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:37:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199809030137.VAA00612@ch4.viperlink.net> X-Sender: dapiper@mail.one.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:42:57 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: David Piper Subject: Re: Renault F1 V10 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Most of these are unspeakably nasty stuff, most or all have gone into >rocket motors, and probably more than a couple into torpedo motors. Actually, I prefer Triptane for really high boost. TurboDave From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 21:54:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05627 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:54:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05621 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:54:25 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-19.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.19]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id SAA14343 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EDF7D0.1CD9@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 18:58:40 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Retrofit TBI to MGB References: <35EDD0EE.A8BE977@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yep. In days of yore some tweaker pulled into my shop with a Type 3 D-jet he had "converted" to carburation by mounting a 34PICT-1 on the plenum. Barely ran, blowing gas everywhere - He had 32 psi going to the carb... Put a 3 psi pump on it - Ran like a Swiss watch. Could'nt believe it. Best part was this guy was convinced he had beat the system... We wanted to screw him by hooking the FI back up, of course... He's probably still telling folks how he got over on us crooks... Regards, Jack Tom Sharpe wrote: > The old 1600 DP EFI VW had ?? circuits.....You could reverse the wires to the > injectors and it always ran the same... even side to side. I built a lo...ong > intake with a Ford 2bbl where the tubes met in the middle like a header collector. > It would RPM and still eat clutches. Best running (stock) VW I ever saw. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 21:54:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05633 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:54:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05629 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:54:42 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-76.mtco.com [206.69.130.76]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA21274 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:54:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EDF730.8CC096B6@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 20:56:01 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q References: <005601bdd65f$a37605a0$75198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > Looks like little tiny fly turds on the center porcelan. Just about > need a magnifier/jeweler's loupe to see em. May also look > kinda like pepper flakes, real fine. > Cheers > Bruce PS Those are pieces of spark plug electrode/ground, head, valve, and/or piston! Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 22:01:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA05761 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:01:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA05757 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:01:36 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA23851 for mail_from ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:59:08 -0600 Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 19:59:08 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: RE Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >On Sept 1, Paul said: >> Is there software available for modifying the fuel map of a GM type >TPI >> fuel injection system? Are there any books, articles etc discribing >how to > >Personally, I find it better to start from scratch and build a new ECU >from ground up because I do not get boxed in by the limited information >available. One could also use some off-the-shelf industrial >microcontroller with your choice of CPU and full documentation. >Wouldnt it be great if we could actually review the software source >codes for those GM boxes? Likewise, I think it takes too much trouble to >decompile the firmware to produce the source code. Whaa? The guy just >wants to change a carburetor, and we are talking software?? Sometimes, >I miss the good old days when we had a collection of main jets for a >hobby. > >Cheers, >alex samson > Doncha know it's all a plot by the EPA to weld all of our hoods shut?? Hillary's been holding secret hearings on it for three years now (with Al in second chair muttering "the ice is melting, the ice is melting!". Cuz she's been so busy with it, that's why Bill had to seek comfort in Monica's lips. We, the only ones who know how to circumvent their wiles, should consider ourselves "La Resistance"!!!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 22:47:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06477 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:47:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06473 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:47:47 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-76.mtco.com [206.69.130.76]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA26718 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:47:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EE03A0.1C72E621@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:49:04 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: RE Software for modifying GM TPI Fuel Map References: <618805C5F139D211A06F00104B8942F00118F7@ORAMAIL> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Alex Samson wrote: > > > On Sept 1, Paul said: > > Is there software available for modifying the fuel map of a GM type > TPI > > fuel injection system? Are there any books, articles etc discribing > how to > > Personally, I find it better to start from scratch and build a new ECU > from ground up because I do not get boxed in by the limited > information available. One could also use some off-the-shelf > industrial microcontroller with your choice of CPU and full > documentation. Wouldnt it be great if we could actually review the > software source codes for those GM boxes? Likewise, I think it takes > too much trouble to decompile the firmware to produce the source > code. Whaa? The guy just wants to change a carburetor, and we are > talking software?? Sometimes, I miss the good old days when we had a > collection of main jets for a hobby. > > Cheers, > alex samson 10-4, Lets do it.. If someone sends me the code from a 68HC11 EFI unit, I'll start translating it.....Maps too... Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 22:57:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06641 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:57:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06637 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:57:34 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-76.mtco.com [206.69.130.76]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA23232 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 21:57:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EE05EC.626F6DA@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:58:52 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Injectors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have a set of 34 lb/hr injectors for sale (cheap)?. What's the price??? Anyone want to trade for a set of 30's??? I feel the need for speed! TIA Tom PS I have a Edelbrock ProFlow w/ 68HC11 processor and 4 channel, sequential injection. It uses GM sensors and a Ford IAC unit on a 4BBl air valve. I think that it could be reasonably easy to "clone" this unit, including the software.......Has anyone done any work on these???? TAgain From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 23:05:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06813 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:05:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06809 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:05:33 -0400 Received: from koala (koala [137.82.2.60]) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00873; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 20:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: Tom Sharpe cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors In-Reply-To: <35EE05EC.626F6DA@mtco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I don't think there is just a thing. I know ord sells them as 30's and GM as 32's but I think that is mostly due to the difference in fuel rail pressure between th two manufactures...GM have a 45psi regulator and ford using 40psi. What regulator are you using and can you get what you need by going to a GM regulator or one of those adjustable units. later jw On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Tom Sharpe wrote: > Does anyone have a set of 34 lb/hr injectors for sale (cheap)?. What's > the price??? Anyone want to trade for a set of 30's??? I feel the need > for speed! > > TIA Tom > > PS I have a Edelbrock ProFlow w/ 68HC11 processor and 4 channel, > sequential injection. It uses GM sensors and a Ford IAC unit on a 4BBl > air valve. I think that it could be reasonably easy to "clone" this > unit, including the software.......Has anyone done any work on > these???? TAgain > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 23:06:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06851 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:06:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06847 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:06:32 -0400 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.65]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19980903030630.GFB10426@malinda> for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 03:06:30 +0000 Message-ID: <35EE0A04.9D4BACCA@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 23:16:21 -0400 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <35EE05EC.626F6DA@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom Sharpe wrote: > Does anyone have a set of 34 lb/hr injectors for sale (cheap)?. What's > > the price??? Anyone want to trade for a set of 30's??? I feel the need > > for speed! > > TIA Tom > > PS I have a Edelbrock ProFlow w/ 68HC11 processor and 4 channel, > sequential injection. It uses GM sensors and a Ford IAC unit on a 4BBl > > air valve. I think that it could be reasonably easy to "clone" this > unit, including the software.......Has anyone done any work on > these???? TAgain might this be a clone of the GM system? I have been looking at the disassemblies over at Ludis's site and the 7747 disassembly mentions the 68hc11 as processor??? -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 2 23:36:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07447 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:36:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07443 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:36:19 -0400 From: GRUMPYNOMO@aol.com Received: from GRUMPYNOMO@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id 7FZJa14124 for ; Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:35:05 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:35:05 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: How good are you at recognizing abnormal O2 sensor beavior Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Iam befuddled! I have a Range Rover with O2 sensors that drift downwards in voltage. Just warmed up the sensors cycle from 800mv to 0mv. As the engine gets to operating temperature the cycling range drops to 600mv (hi) to minus 300mv. (low) with a mean of around 100mv sometimes even below 0! What's wrong with this picture? What could be causing this? I have added an extra ground to the sensors and I have changed both of them and I have substituted another ecm. I am going to unplug the alternator and retest. Please give me the benefit of your opinion if you have a theory or if you have experience in this area Thanks Alan Briggs FCECLtd@aol.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 00:24:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07939 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:24:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from MAIL.TAIT.CO.NZ (210-55-236-69.static-dialup.xtra.co.nz [210.55.236.69]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA07935 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:24:43 -0400 Received: from TELCHCH-Message_Server by MAIL.TAIT.CO.NZ with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 16:20:23 +1200 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 16:18:34 +1200 From: Bruce Robertson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Fuel Curves Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello, What would an ideal plot of manifold vacuum versus injected fuel quantity look like? I am still on the job of tuning my Lucas mechanical injection - last night I measured the fuel curve and it seems a bit dodgy to me (although my opinion is not very qualified). At low vac the fuel delivery is high, and it drops very rapidly (and linearly) until it reaches about one third of its original quantity, and then it changes slope and linearly decreases until it gets to max vac. This means that about the first 10% of the total vac increase reduces the fuel quantity by about 66% and the last 90% of vac reduces it by 33% (the two parts of the graph are both linear of course because it relies on springs to derive the curve). Does this seem good/bad/otherwise to anybody who knows? Any comments gratefully recieved. Regards Bruce Robertson Lucas injected Bond Equipe Sufferer - New Zealand From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 00:48:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08158 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:48:45 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08154 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:48:44 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.58]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id AAA11812 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000401bdd6f6$93157dc0$3a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:51:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: ECMnut@aol.com Subject: Re: Non-GM knock sensor Q >I use unleaded gas and get little specs on the porcelan, >as Bruce describes when I have deto from too much boost, >so I don't think it is lead (at least in my case).. > How did he get the flies to...... Gives me something to do while the Feds are here. One thing nice about being off the paved road by 45 miles is that they kick up so much dust ya know when they are coming. Or when Dopey is late for work. Cheers Bruce BTW, Tip in detonation will leave the same specks as when doing WOT Blasts. Darn, I didn't mean to let that out . From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 00:55:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08266 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:55:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08262 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:55:38 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.58]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id AAA13071 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000b01bdd6f7$89ff0660$3a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Fuel Curves Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:58:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Robertson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 12:44 AM Subject: Fuel Curves >Hello, > >What would an ideal plot of manifold vacuum versus injected fuel >quantity look like? Some folks tend to beleive therir are some genertic versions that will work on anything, and for a mild stock engine that is close. But, the second you have tinkered with anything that's about meaningless. In 332 incoming the are some tune-up docs. that I tried to explain some of what things might look like, for a modified engine. It's not about what the table looks like, it's about how it runs. Cheers Bruce >Regards > >Bruce Robertson >Lucas injected Bond Equipe Sufferer - New Zealand > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 00:59:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08378 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:59:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08373 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:59:55 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-40.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.58]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id AAA13860 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:59:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001401bdd6f8$21d6ca40$3a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: How good are you at recognizing abnormal O2 sensor beavior Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 01:03:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: GRUMPYNOMO@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 11:51 PM Subject: How good are you at recognizing abnormal O2 sensor beavior >Iam befuddled! We must be related I have a Range Rover with O2 sensors that drift downwards in >voltage. Just warmed up the sensors cycle from 800mv to 0mv. As the engine >gets to operating temperature the cycling range drops to 600mv (hi) to minus >300mv. (low) with a mean of around 100mv sometimes even below 0! > >What's wrong with this picture? Sounds about right to me. What could be causing this? Normal warm procedure. Think of it as the choke on, and the the engine warms up, and leans out.. The ecm hunts for the perfect mixture, so the O2v floats around. At WOT, the exhaust flow is such a large volume, that it appears to be a rather steady reading. > >I have added an extra ground to the sensors and I have changed both of them >and I have substituted another ecm. > >I am going to unplug the alternator and retest. Please give me the benefit of >your opinion if you have a theory or if you have experience in this area > >Thanks >Alan Briggs >FCECLtd@aol.com > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 04:03:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09697 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:03:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from espace.dcl.com (espace.dcl.com [198.145.94.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA09692 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:03:48 -0400 From: talltom@espace.dcl.com Received: by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) id 23784; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:03:41 PDT Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:03:38 PDT To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: talltom@espace.dcl.com Message-ID: <009CBA5F.25A062A8.23784@espace.dcl.com> Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #409 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is probably off topic for here, but I plead for pity... I've quite accidently become a Ford owner, and am pretty much in a fog on them. I've got fuel through injector,(85 tempo) replaced everything in fuel and ign system except o2 sensor and brain. It used to run, but oly with major vacuum lines disconnected, and when it would idle it was horrible. IT WOULD DRIVE AND RUN ON ALL CYLINDERS, occasionally. One day while idling it died, and has yet to ever re-light. I've checked for obvious bad connections, but admit not knowing where to look. Any of you Ford guys got some tricks up your sleeve I don't know?? From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 04:49:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA09939 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:49:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA09935 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:49:18 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id DAA26101 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 03:49:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809030849.DAA26101@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny2-02.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.66) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026097; Thu Sep 3 03:49:02 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:06:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Invaluable resource--inexpensive good quality pcbs for proto Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Just a forward seems, reasonable. > > >I have no interest in Circuit Design except that they are still there > > It's been more than 3 weeks and still waiting, > I would recommend advanced reservations. > Please do not tell too many, untill they expand. > I did see a similiar place in Nuts Volts which I hope eases > the work load. > My first batch, the holes and cutting were not exactly close > tolerance, but the board work, and for me easier and cheaper than > DIY. Is any one intersested in a etching tank, exposure bulb > and other materials? > Also who does photo transparency locally, Kinkos? > maybe less than $8 > alex > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 07:38:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA10938 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:38:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA10934 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:38:31 -0400 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id EAA27750; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:35:41 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) id HAA10168; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:37:08 -0400 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id HAA14478; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:37:07 -0400 From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9809030737.ZM14476@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:37:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: Robert Gallant "Re: ignition miss" (Sep 2, 9:04am) References: <9809020825.ZM9835@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> <35ED506F.361F@oasys.dt.navy.mil> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: third-gen@f-body.org, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ignition miss Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ignition miss > I have a 1989 TransAm GTA with the 5.7L MAF TPI. I believe it's > a 165 ECM, right? :) > > well, having a problem... the other day I re-timed my car. set > the timing back about 3-4 degrees to make the pinging go higher in the Ok, here's some more data points... today on the way to work the miss was very mild, almost non-existant for the most part. However, the speedometer was still doing the wild thang, jumping up every few seconds. As an experiment I engaged the cruise control and the car went crazy with the speedometer's movement. So... it looks like a problem with the VSS buffer box or VSS input is part of my likely culprit. To get some more information, what does the ECM in my car use VSS for? Maybe it's thinking that somehow the car is going past the speed cutoff and cutting out my ignition or injectors? That would explain a lot... anybody know how much a VSS buffer box from a wrecking yard would be? I'm hopefully going to get a diacom this weekend from my buddy so that I can do some investigation before I just go blindly swapping parts :-/ Thanks for your input, --andrew From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 08:48:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11556 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:48:42 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11552 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:48:40 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-48.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.117]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id IAA23361 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005901bdd739$9e51a360$75198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: ignition miss Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:50:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Andrew F. Gunnesch To: third-gen@f-body.org ; diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 8:23 AM Subject: Re: ignition miss >Subject: Re: ignition miss >> I have a 1989 TransAm GTA with the 5.7L MAF TPI. I believe it's >> a 165 ECM, right? :) >> >> well, having a problem... the other day I re-timed my car. set >> the timing back about 3-4 degrees to make the pinging go higher in the Try setting everything to stock, and see how it runs. Check fuel pressure, at idle, and WOT. Of course follow safety guide. > >However, the speedometer was still doing the wild thang, jumping up every few seconds. As an experiment I engaged the cruise control and the car went crazy with the speedometer's movement. So... it looks like a problem with the VSS buffer box or VSS input is part of my likely culprit. To get some more information, what does the ECM in my car use VSS for? Maybe it's thinking that somehow the car is going past the speed cutoff and cutting out my ignition or injectors? Disconnect the connector at the trans, and see if the problem goes away. Would at least rule the vss in or out. If no difference, try unplugging MAF. That would explain a lot... anybody know how much a VSS buffer box from a wrecking yard would be? > >I'm hopefully going to get a diacom this weekend from my buddy so that I >can do some investigation before I just go blindly swapping parts :-/ > >Thanks for your input, > >--andrew > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 09:10:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA11799 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:10:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA11795 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:10:31 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA12071 for mail_from ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:07:55 -0600 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:07:55 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Injectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Regardless of what is available, I believe that ALL injectors are nominally rated at 3 bar fuel pressure delta from rail to manifold--44.07 psi. Regards, Greg >I don't think there is just a thing. I know ord sells them as 30's and >GM as 32's but I think that is mostly due to the difference in fuel rail >pressure between th two manufactures...GM have a 45psi regulator and ford >using 40psi. > >What regulator are you using and can you get what you need by going to a >GM regulator or one of those adjustable units. >later >jw > > >On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Tom Sharpe wrote: > >> Does anyone have a set of 34 lb/hr injectors for sale (cheap)?. What's >> the price??? Anyone want to trade for a set of 30's??? I feel the need >> for speed! >> >> TIA Tom >> >> PS I have a Edelbrock ProFlow w/ 68HC11 processor and 4 channel, >> sequential injection. It uses GM sensors and a Ford IAC unit on a 4BBl >> air valve. I think that it could be reasonably easy to "clone" this >> unit, including the software.......Has anyone done any work on >> these???? TAgain >> >> From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 10:15:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12760 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:15:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12756 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:15:13 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-126.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.126]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id HAA03030 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 07:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EDFC46.616C@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 19:17:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Turbocharging a natural gas engine References: <35EDD0E8.9FC12989@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Guess I'm turning into a crank in my old age, but "free" means somebody else is paying for it. Guess who? > Jake Sternberg wrote: > > many cities in the US offer a rebate to convert your vehicle > > to natural gas, like Austin, texas. here, i can convert for > > free. From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 10:22:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12838 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:22:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12834 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:22:25 -0400 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA07505 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from quest ([143.114.72.6]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with SMTP id <0EYP00BE5P92Z0@lmco.com> for diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:22:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by quest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA18497; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:22:13 -0500 Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA09204; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:22:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:22:11 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Subject: ESC diagnostic To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <35EEA610.1724265A@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199809030450.AAA08176@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I don't think my ESC module is working. I was experiencing knocking, so I retarded my timing. Then I thought, that ain't the way this is supposed to work. So, I dug in the factory manual, and found some diagnostics. I thought the system worked by grounding a wire from the ESC module through the knock sensor. The one in the Suburban was new when I installed the engine. The diagnostics said to disconnect the knock sensor and hook that wire "momentarily" to a 12 volt source while watching the timing mark. Well, I tried both ways, 12 volt and grounding, and didn't notice any difference in the timing. There was voltage at the ECS module, so it is powered. I forgot to hook the knock sensor up and the next day the check engine light came on. I rehooked the wire up and started the engine and the light was out. I was rushed and didn't use the ALDL to look for trouble codes. I'm assuming the ECM somehow figured out the wire was disconnected, but how if the module isn't working? Any suggestions? Thanks, Joe (Looking for fly turds) Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 10:23:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12849 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:23:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12845 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:22:58 -0400 Received: from am018 (e1c1p33.scotland.net [148.176.232.33]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA26154 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 15:21:50 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <199809031421.PAA26154@beryl.sol.co.uk> From: "Andrew W MacFadyen" To: Subject: Re: temperature sensors Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:02:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If your temperatures are less than 110c the LM35CZ will give linear results and is much easier to use than thermistor as it has positive temperature coefficient and a higher output change per degree. In the UK as well as selling digital thermometers at rock bottom prices Maplin Eleconics sell DIY modules for doing this sort of thing. > From: West, David > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: temperature sensors > Date: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 8:13 AM > > Hello all, > > Does any know if there is there is a kit available that enables you to > measure temperature. > > I want to measure both inlet and outlet temperature through my > intercooler but don't really want to pay AUS$150 for a dual > thermo-couple readout unless there is no other alternative. > > I just built a EGO meter and that works rather well. I am keen to see > if there is a temp kit similar. > > Kind regards, > > David West > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 10:31:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA12993 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:31:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA12989 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:31:53 -0400 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA17679 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from quest ([143.114.72.6]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with SMTP id <0EYP00FPXPP1R4@lmco.com> for diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by quest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA18692; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:31:48 -0500 Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA09743; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:31:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 09:31:47 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #410 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <35EEA853.216156C2@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199809030900.FAA09994@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: talltom@espace.dcl.com > Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 01:03:38 PDT > Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #409 > > This is probably off topic for here, but I plead for pity... > I've quite accidently become a Ford owner, and am pretty much in a > fog on them. I've got fuel through injector,(85 tempo) replaced everything > in fuel and ign system except o2 sensor and brain. It used to run, but > oly with major vacuum lines disconnected, and when it would idle it > was horrible. IT WOULD DRIVE AND RUN ON ALL CYLINDERS, occasionally. > One day while idling it died, and has yet to ever re-light. I've > checked for obvious bad connections, but admit not knowing where to look. > Any of you Ford guys got some tricks up your sleeve I don't know?? Your post is a bit confusing to me. But this sounds serious enough that you need to start from the basics. You need fuel, compression and spark for an engine to run. Run a compression test, see if you have spark and fuel squirting when you try to start the engine, then get back to us. The only thought I have is your timing belt is messed up. Does this car have one? Joe (GM to the bone) Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 10:50:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA13257 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:50:56 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from crash.netspeak.com (email.webphone.com [208.143.140.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA13253 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:50:53 -0400 Received: by crash with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:49:03 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mike Pitts To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Injectors Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:49:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anyone have a set of 34 lb/hr injectors for sale (cheap)?. Bosch blue top injectors, from the Merkur XR4TI, are rated at 36 lb/hr. If you're lucky, you may be able to find some in the junkyard. -Mike From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 11:02:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA13507 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:02:37 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13503 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:02:35 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-7.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.76]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id LAA09295 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:02:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ae01bdd74c$4d1a56a0$75198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Injectors Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:05:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 9:57 AM Subject: Re: Injectors >Regardless of what is available, I believe that ALL injectors are nominally >rated at 3 bar fuel pressure delta from rail to manifold--44.07 psi. Trouble is there is no "Standard". Great marketing ploy, raise the PSI a little and act like your selling a bigger injector. Several aftermarket companies do that. When buying injectors, be sure to get the PSI they are rated at!. Cheers Bruce > >Regards, Greg > > >>I don't think there is just a thing. I know ord sells them as 30's and >>GM as 32's but I think that is mostly due to the difference in fuel rail >>pressure between th two manufactures...GM have a 45psi regulator and ford >>using 40psi. >> >>What regulator are you using and can you get what you need by going to a >>GM regulator or one of those adjustable units. >>later >>jw >> >> >>On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Tom Sharpe wrote: >> >>> Does anyone have a set of 34 lb/hr injectors for sale (cheap)?. What's >>> the price??? Anyone want to trade for a set of 30's??? I feel the need >>> for speed! >>> >>> TIA Tom >>> >>> PS I have a Edelbrock ProFlow w/ 68HC11 processor and 4 channel, >>> sequential injection. It uses GM sensors and a Ford IAC unit on a 4BBl >>> air valve. I think that it could be reasonably easy to "clone" this >>> unit, including the software.......Has anyone done any work on >>> these???? TAgain >>> >>> > > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 11:37:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14280 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:37:02 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.tantech.com (trends-gw.problem.com [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA14275 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:36:58 -0400 Received: by problem.tantech.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #25) id m0zEbTL-0001qoC; Thu, 3 Sep 98 11:38 EDT Message-Id: Subject: Re: Turbocharging a natural gas engine To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:38:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: <35EDD0E8.9FC12989@mtco.com> from "Tom Sharpe" at Sep 2, 98 06:12:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Compressed natural gas has an octane rating around 120 + > > > > turbocharging an engine using natural gas makes sense > > because natural gas costs about 35-40 cents per "gallon" > > in your home and about 65 cents per "gallon" at a gas station > > (if you don't have a 3600 PSI pump at your house). > > > > many cities in the US offer a rebate to convert your vehicle > > to natural gas, like Austin, texas. here, i can convert for > > free. > > > > (* a "gallon" of compressed natural gas is the amount of CNG with > > the equivalent energy of a gallon of gasoline) > > Good points except that street cars are generally "crusing" where turbos > don't helpBSFC, however very high compression does....... then you can't > run as dual fuel.Regards Tom some turbo cars are under boost at cruise even 5 lbs will give a 30 % increase in power so a 8:! motor behaves like a 10:1 which does help BSFC Clive > > > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 11:44:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14385 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:44:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14381 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:44:35 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-7.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.76]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id LAA23679 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:44:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d101bdd752$30ebece0$75198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: ESC diagnostic Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:47:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Joe Boucher To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 11:17 AM Subject: ESC diagnostic >I don't think my ESC module is working. I was experiencing knocking, so I retarded my timing. Then I thought, that ain't the way this is supposed to work. So, I dug in the factory manual, and >found some diagnostics. Pausing here for a moment to state the following is for what I assume is a gm system!?..,:;';.>. > >I thought the system worked by grounding a wire from the ESC module through the knock sensor. Nope, the sensor is pezaioelectric doodad, so it developes a voltage when shaken, not stirred. The one in the Suburban was new when I installed the engine. The diagnostics said to disconnect >the knock sensor and hook that wire "momentarily" to a 12 volt source while watching the timing mark. Well, I tried both ways, 12 volt and grounding, and didn't notice any difference in the >timing. Should have like a 7v signal to ecm, sensed knock drops it down, from there. If ya'all want I have some 555 circuits that you can use in leiu of a knock sensor to trigger and hole the esc in a knock mode. The output on these is 12v. If you hook a speaker to em them, they even sound like a pinging car sorta. > >There was voltage at the ECS module, so it is powered. > >I forgot to hook the knock sensor up and the next day the check engine light came on. I rehooked the wire up and started the engine and the light was out. Ecm does a 1st engine "on" diagnostic, and then a while driving down the street test. "on" test to look for power on pin something, and then run test adds a couple hundered degrees for an instant to see if the knock sensor hears it. Hundred degrees means a far amount (40ish).. I was rushed and didn't use the ALDL >to look for trouble codes. I'm assuming the ECM somehow figured out the wire was disconnected, but how if the module isn't working? > >Any suggestions? Don't invest in the stock market. Don't try to train flies, their life span is so short they don't get to use the education very long.. > >Thanks, > >Joe (Looking for fly turds) Boucher >'70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban > Hey Joe we got some over here. Cheers Bruce Bashful had a beer with dinner last night and spent the rest of the evening sitting on a 1227747, and making his own sounds effects while using a flight stimulator. Poor boy can't hold a brew, but he does have fun.... From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 11:47:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14434 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:47:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ch4.viperlink.net (ch4.viperlink.net [209.136.106.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14430 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:47:43 -0400 Received: from dapiper.viperlink.com (dialin-espr196.viperlink.com [209.136.107.196]) by ch4.viperlink.net (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id LAA00322 for ; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:45:33 -0400 Message-Id: <199809031545.LAA00322@ch4.viperlink.net> X-Sender: dapiper@mail.one.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:51:23 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: David Piper Subject: Re: Injectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have just repl my 36 pph Bosch hose end inj. Can you use these? TurboDave At 09:58 PM 9/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have a set of 34 lb/hr injectors for sale (cheap)?. What's >the price??? Anyone want to trade for a set of 30's??? I feel the need >for speed! > >TIA Tom > >PS I have a Edelbrock ProFlow w/ 68HC11 processor and 4 channel, >sequential injection. It uses GM sensors and a Ford IAC unit on a 4BBl >air valve. I think that it could be reasonably easy to "clone" this >unit, including the software.......Has anyone done any work on >these???? TAgain > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 11:51:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14501 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:51:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14493 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:51:36 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-195.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.195]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id IAA12110 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35EEBB93.521A@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 08:53:55 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel Curves References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CFM = (displacement in cubic inches/1728 ) X RPM/2 X MAP/406.8 where MAP is inches of water, 406.8 "H2O = 1 atmosphere RPM/2 because its a four-cycle (is'nt it?) lbs/hour of air = CFM X 60min/hr X .0805 lb_cu_ft so lbs/hour of fuel = lbs/hour of air/ desired air-fuel ratio Reality, as ever, is more complicated, but it's a place to start. Regards, Jack Bruce Robertson wrote: > What would an ideal plot of manifold vacuum versus injected fuel > quantity look like? From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 11:51:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14518 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:51:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oramail.orausa.com ([204.140.232.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14514 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:51:53 -0400 Received: by ORAMAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:51:30 -0700 Message-ID: <618805C5F139D211A06F00104B8942F0011905@ORAMAIL> From: Alex Samson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re Abnormal O2 reading Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 08:51:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDD752.B7DE5A30" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD752.B7DE5A30 Content-Type: text/plain On 9/2/98, Alan Briggs said: >I am befuddled! I have a Range Rover with O2 sensors that drift downwards >in voltage. Just warmed up the sensors cycle from 800mv to 0mv. As the >engine I've seen this before on a Range Rover. From what I saw, the owner merely kept using the rover until the situation eventually got worse with time, the engine would just eventually quit for no apparent reason. Was a weak fuel pump dying. The O2 sensor normally fluctuates like how you described as the ECU tunes the mix in normal use but if it seems to loose the battle and the O2 keeps reading 0, then it could signal something bad developing. Cheer, alex samson ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD752.B7DE5A30 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re Abnormal O2 reading

On 9/2/98, Alan Briggs said:
>I am befuddled!  I have a Range Rover with = O2 sensors that drift downwards >in voltage.  Just warmed up = the sensors cycle from 800mv to 0mv.  As the >engine

I've seen this = before on a Range Rover.  From what I saw, the owner merely kept = using the rover until the situation eventually got worse with time, the = engine would just eventually quit for no apparent reason.   = Was a weak fuel pump dying.  The O2 sensor normally fluctuates = like how you described as the ECU tunes the mix in normal use but if it = seems to loose the battle and the O2 keeps reading 0, then it could = signal something bad developing. 

Cheer,
alex samson

------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD752.B7DE5A30-- From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 11:58:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA14679 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:58:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.146.90.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA14674 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:58:07 -0400 Received: from smtp.ufl.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (980427.SGI.8.8.8/940406.SGI) for id LAA12423; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ufl.edu (sp07.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.175.137]) by smtp.ufl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/1.6) with ESMTP id LAA47518 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:58:05 -0400 Received: from Station1.ufl.edu ([10.5.55.11]) by ufl.edu (8.9.0/8.8.7/1.7) with SMTP id LAA71932 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:58:03 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19980903160229.0072fd08@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn14222@pop3.afn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:02:29 -0400 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Chief Subject: eec-iv high idle problem Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Lurker here...have a problem with ford ranger, 90ish, eec-iv, idle speed is high. Any reccs on what to check? Thanks. Ed Hilker aka "Chief" '84 SS - 700R4, RPM Q-jet, duals, Flows, 2050 cam, rumpity rumpity rumpity... http://nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu/~ehilker/ From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 12:05:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15044 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:05:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15040 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:05:09 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA03286 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:04:41 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809031604.LAA03286@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny8-18.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.178) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma003226; Thu Sep 3 11:04:02 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:21:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: pcbs for proto Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: Self > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Invaluable resource--inexpensive good quality pcbs for proto > Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:19:49 > > > > > > Just a forward seems, reasonable. > > > >I have no interest in Circuit Design except that they are still there > > > > It's been more than 3 weeks and still waiting, > > I would recommend advanced reservations. > > Please do not tell too many, untill they expand. > > I did see a similiar place in Nuts Volts which I hope eases > > the work load. > > My first batch, the holes and cutting were not exactly close > > tolerance, but the board work, and for me easier and cheaper than > > DIY. Is any one intersested in a etching tank, exposure bulb > > and other materials? > > Also who does photo transparency locally, Kinkos? > > maybe less than $8 > > alex > > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 12:25:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA15631 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:25:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15623 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:25:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07295 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:25:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:25:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors In-Reply-To: <00ae01bdd74c$4d1a56a0$75198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Hermann > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 9:57 AM > Subject: Re: Injectors > > > >Regardless of what is available, I believe that ALL injectors are nominally > >rated at 3 bar fuel pressure delta from rail to manifold--44.07 psi. > > Trouble is there is no "Standard". > Great marketing ploy, raise the PSI a little and act like your selling > a bigger injector. Several aftermarket companies do that. When > buying injectors, be sure to get the PSI they are rated at!. > Cheers > Bruce > > > >Regards, Greg > > > > > >>I don't think there is just a thing. I know ord sells them as 30's and > >>GM as 32's but I think that is mostly due to the difference in fuel rail > >>pressure between th two manufactures...GM have a 45psi regulator and ford > >>using 40psi. > >> > >>What regulator are you using and can you get what you need by going to a > >>GM regulator or one of those adjustable units. > >>later > >>jw > >> > >> > >>On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Tom Sharpe wrote: > >> There is not standard from what I have also heard. Injectors from Ford are supposed to be rated at 39psi, injectors from Chevy at 45psi, no idea how close these numbers are to what the really are. I guess to be safe you would have to buy one and run it in a test setup and see what they flow. Roger From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 13:47:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA16621 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:47:48 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oramail.orausa.com ([204.140.232.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA16608 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:47:27 -0400 Received: by ORAMAIL with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:47:04 -0700 Message-ID: <618805C5F139D211A06F00104B8942F001191C@ORAMAIL> From: Alex Samson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re Injectors Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:47:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDD762.DC4FD2B0" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD762.DC4FD2B0 Content-Type: text/plain The old D-jetronic injectors have HUGE pintle valves. One can see the big difference by just one glance. Those injectors flow so much more fuel than modern multi port injectors I can imagine a definite enrichment that would result by installing those to a modern application. Probably the analogy of installing a bank of Del-ought-tos. Cheers, alex samson ------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD762.DC4FD2B0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re Injectors

The old D-jetronic injectors have HUGE = pintle valves.  One can see the big  difference by just one = glance. Those injectors flow so much more fuel than modern multi port = injectors I can imagine a definite enrichment that would result by = installing those to a modern application. Probably the analogy of = installing a bank of Del-ought-tos.

Cheers,
alex samson

------ =_NextPart_001_01BDD762.DC4FD2B0-- From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 14:24:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA17219 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:24:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send201.yahoomail.com (send201.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA17215 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:24:05 -0400 Message-ID: <19980903182436.26247.rocketmail@send201.yahoomail.com> Received: from [12.69.65.133] by send201.yahoomail.com; Thu, 03 Sep 1998 11:24:36 PDT Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:24:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Weir Subject: Re: eec-iv high idle problem To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ---Chief wrote: > > > Lurker here...have a problem with ford ranger, 90ish, eec-iv, idle speed is > high. Any reccs on what to check? > > Thanks. Check for a vacuum leak, I just fixed my wife's 91 F-150 that decided it wanted to idle at 1600 rpm... it was the gasket between the upper and lower intake manifolds..... Jason == I am on vacation, please don't reply to Yahoo.com either hit reply or send mail to jweir@worldnet.att.net Having Fun Rafting the Kennebec river in West Forks, Maine First 2000 mile road trip to test out the new TBI swap on the 88 Wrangler _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 16:59:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA19171 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:59:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA19167 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:59:34 -0400 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id NAA01787; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 13:57:57 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) id QAA15432; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:59:24 -0400 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA19651; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:59:21 -0400 From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9809031659.ZM19649@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 16:59:20 -0400 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: third-gen@f-body.org, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: it's dead, jim Cc: abozny@wwnet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, my '89 GTA died today. It won't start. It cranks and cranks and occasionally I'll get a spark to one or two cylinders, but not enough to sustain combustion in order to drive it home. I don't have any diagnosing information right now, as the car's at work and am I, and all my tools and manuals are at home. *sigh* Wish me luck. I hope it's not my ECM. --andrew From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 17:13:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19307 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:13:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19303 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:13:52 -0400 Received: from koala (koala [137.82.2.60]) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA04067; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:13:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: third-gen@f-body.org, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, abozny@wwnet.com Subject: Re: it's dead, jim In-Reply-To: <9809031659.ZM19649@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I assume this is a GM?? From what I've heard and experienced GM has a little problem with ignition modules. This is seperate from your ECM. Cost is about $200 from a dealer. HTH jw On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Andrew F. Gunnesch wrote: > Well, my '89 GTA died today. It won't start. It cranks and cranks and > occasionally I'll get a spark to one or two cylinders, but not enough > to sustain combustion in order to drive it home. > > I don't have any diagnosing information right now, as the car's at work > and am I, and all my tools and manuals are at home. *sigh* > > Wish me luck. I hope it's not my ECM. > > --andrew > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 17:49:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA19797 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:49:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.adinet.com.uy (mail1.adinet.com.uy [206.99.44.241]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA19792 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:49:00 -0400 Received: from mio (r242-208.adinet.com.uy [207.50.242.208]) by mail1.adinet.com.uy (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA26147 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:38:11 +0300 (GMT) From: "Javier Calle" To: Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Informaci=F3n?= Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:52:24 +1000 Message-ID: <01bdd718$2babaca0$d0f232cf@mio> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD76B.FD57BCA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD76B.FD57BCA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable De antemano les pido disculpas por escribir en Espa=F1ol, ya que mi = ingl=E9s es mejor para leer que para redactar. =BFEs posible suscribirse = a la lista de discusi=F3n, a=FAn cuando se escriba en espa=F1ol? =20 Por el otro lado quiero decirles que en el sitio de Uds.. he encontrado = el mejor material sobre inyecci=F3n electr=F3nica de toda la WEB. Javier Calle=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD76B.FD57BCA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
De antemano les pido = disculpas por=20 escribir en Español, ya que mi inglés es mejor para leer = que para=20 redactar. ¿Es posible suscribirse a la lista de discusión, = aún cuando se escriba en español? 
Por el otro lado quiero = decirles que=20 en el sitio de Uds.. he encontrado el mejor material sobre = inyección=20 electrónica de toda la WEB.
Javier=20 Calle 
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BDD76B.FD57BCA0-- From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 18:38:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA20443 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:38:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20439 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:38:32 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA03701 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:38:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809032238.RAA03701@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny1-24.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.56) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002195; Thu Sep 3 17:21:11 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:38:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: ARC-2 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I was browsing at my local libary (the grocery store) and was reading a magazine called Import Performance or something. Had a report on trying to fix up a Ford Probe. They put all the usual stuff on headers, new aircleaner maybe a cam? and sent computer to JET for programming. Interesting results, because all the stuff dropped HP and Torque drastically especially at low and mid. First time I saw a mag report drops or no change for there advertiser products. They made several runs removing and changing trying to figure out what happened they didn't. In there attempts they reported on trying a device called ARC-2 which will adapt any airflow meter to any engine including MAP to MASS and 0-5V to 5-0V and has provisions for changing A/F at various flows. alex From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 18:38:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA20448 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:38:47 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20444 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:38:46 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA03698 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 17:38:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809032238.RAA03698@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny1-24.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.56) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002195; Thu Sep 3 17:21:13 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 04:38:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fuel Curves Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Fuel vs airflow is a bathtub curve for non emission cars. You want smooth idle, good fuel economy and high power. Thus A/F is rich, lean, rich alex > > What would an ideal plot of manifold vacuum versus injected fuel > quantity look like? I am still on the job of tuning my Lucas mechanical > injection - last night I measured the fuel curve and it seems a bit dodgy to > me (although my opinion is not very qualified). At low vac the fuel > delivery is high, and it drops very rapidly (and linearly) until it reaches > about one third of its original quantity, and then it changes slope and > linearly decreases until it gets to max vac. This means that about the first > 10% of the total vac increase reduces the fuel quantity by about 66% > and the last 90% of vac reduces it by 33% (the two parts of the graph > are both linear of course because it relies on springs to derive the > curve). Does this seem good/bad/otherwise to anybody who knows? > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 18:53:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA20841 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:53:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp4.ny.us.ibm.COM (smtp4.ny.us.ibm.com [198.133.22.43]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA20837 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:53:16 -0400 Received: from relay2.server.ibm.com (relay2.server.ibm.com [9.14.2.99]) by smtp4.ny.us.ibm.COM (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA48860 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:42:24 -0400 Received: from US.IBM.COM (d03lms05.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.80.15]) by relay2.server.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23924 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:46:43 -0400 Received: by US.IBM.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 3.0) with snapi via D03AU045 id 5030050019210782; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:54:12 -0400 From: Kevin Vannorsdel To: Subject: Re: ARC-2 Message-ID: <5030050019210782000002L522*@MHS> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:54:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id SAA20838 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am not a satisfied customer of JET... bought a custom chip from them. Customer service was terrible and expertice questionable (IMHO). ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu on 09/03/98 03:51:14 PM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: Subject: ARC-2 I was browsing at my local libary (the grocery store) and was reading a magazine called Import Performance or something. Had a report on trying to fix up a Ford Probe. They put all the usual stuff on headers, new aircleaner maybe a cam? and sent computer to JET for programming. Interesting results, because all the stuff dropped HP and Torque drastically especially at low and mid. First time I saw a mag report drops or no change for there advertiser products. They made several runs removing and changing trying to figure out what happened they didn't. In there attempts they reported on trying a device called ARC-2 which will adapt any airflow meter to any engine including MAP to MASS and 0-5V to 5-0V and has provisions for changing A/F at various flows. alex From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 19:04:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21091 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:04:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21087 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:04:20 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-14.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.83]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id TAA12577 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00f801bdd78f$9db4aa00$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: ARC-2 Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:07:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 6:55 PM Subject: ARC-2 I was browsing at my local libary (the grocery store) and was reading a magazine called Import Performance or something. Had a report on trying to fix up a Ford Probe. First time I saw a mag report drops or no change for there advertiser products. They made several runs removing and changing trying to figure out what happened they didn't. In there attempts they reported on trying a device called ARC-2 which will adapt any airflow meter to any engine including MAP to MASS and 0-5V to 5-0V and has provisions for changing A/F at various flows. alex Circle Track + Racing Technology some time ago did a reveiw of plug wires, including the Nology $400 set. Ya never read such mumdlygook for a final answer when they didn't work. Also, can't hurt Jet's reputation about now. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 19:06:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21142 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:06:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cerberus.ibmoto.com (cerberus.ibmoto.com [129.38.252.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21138 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:06:15 -0400 Received: from ibmoto.com (carmine@dancer.ibmoto.com [129.38.130.11]) by cerberus.ibmoto.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA10386 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:06:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EF20E2.8C4CFE6@ibmoto.com> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 18:06:11 -0500 From: Carmine Organization: PowerPC Design Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; AIX 4.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: it's dead, jim References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James Weiler wrote: > I assume this is a GM?? From what I've heard and experienced GM has a > little problem with ignition modules. This is seperate from your ECM. > Cost is about $200 from a dealer. > HTH > jw > > On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Andrew F. Gunnesch wrote: > > > Well, my '89 GTA died today. It won't start. It cranks and cranks and > > occasionally I'll get a spark to one or two cylinders, but not enough > > to sustain combustion in order to drive it home. > > > > I don't have any diagnosing information right now, as the car's at work > > and am I, and all my tools and manuals are at home. *sigh* > > > > Wish me luck. I hope it's not my ECM. > > > > --andrew > > I don't think it's the ECM. It's likely to be the ignition coil. Carmine From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 19:09:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21287 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:09:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from axis.jeack.com.au (root@axis.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21281 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:09:00 -0400 Received: from mainpc (d39.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.216]) by axis.jeack.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21942 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:08:41 GMT Message-ID: <000301bdd78f$de2e18a0$d87d18cb@mainpc> From: "Ross Myers" To: Subject: Re: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:02:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >I have one of these also and they work good. You might want to consider >upgrading the injectors to 2" bore (Holley, I think) for 350-383-400 CI. or >use it as is on a 305-327-350. Just a thought. More is better. Tom Tom did you ever try opening up the intake runners a bit, you know how at the end they are WAY smaller than the head ports. Also the 'swirl' plates at the bottom of the top plate, are these a restriction or an aid. I like/hate my CFI, somedays it runs so good, but somedays I reckon it's down at least 40Hp, I'm sure it must be a vac leak or the ECU has lost the plot. Regards Ross From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 19:40:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA21772 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:40:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA21768 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:40:01 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-14.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.83]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id TAA29061 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <014701bdd794$996b0020$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:43:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Ross Myers To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 7:24 PM Subject: Re: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale >>I have one of these also and they work good. You might want to consider >>upgrading the injectors to 2" bore (Holley, I think) for 350-383-400 CI. or >>use it as is on a 305-327-350. Just a thought. More is better. Tom > > >Tom did you ever try opening up the intake runners a bit, you know how at >the end they are WAY smaller than the head ports. > >Also the 'swirl' plates at the bottom of the top plate, are these a >restriction or an aid. > >I like/hate my CFI, somedays it runs so good, but somedays I reckon it's >down at least 40Hp, I'm sure it must be a vac leak or the ECU has lost the >plot. Rewire it to use the gm truck ecm 1227747, and use the programming 101 info.. Ran mine for years like that, really nice. Vanes are mandatory. If you do anything, grind the egr tunnel out add 1/4" spacer for the upper lid. Use injectors off a 87-91 SBC TBI pickup. Cheers Bruce > >Regards > >Ross > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 20:32:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00667 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:32:18 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00663 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:32:16 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA27184 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:32:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809040032.TAA27184@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny12-02.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.226) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma027095; Thu Sep 3 19:31:26 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:48:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: H2 meter Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199809031604.LAA03314@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:04:43 -0500 (CDT) > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem > To: > Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: efi332.eng.ohio-state: host not found) > The original message was received at Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:04:37 -0500 (CDT) > from smap@localhost > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > 550 ... Host unknown (Name server: efi332.eng.ohio-state: host not found) > > ----- Original message follows ----- > > > > > > > 3) H2 concentrations are about 1/2 CO concentrations, at all > > > > > mixtures. > > > > > > > > > > CO can be detected using IR spectrometry, but H20 has an > > > > > overlapping range, so exhaust gas must be dried to get an > > > > > accurate reading. This is obviously impractical for a view as you > > > > > drive type guage. > > > > > > > > > Modern instrument gradeCO NDIR analyzers are not sensitive to water > > > > vapor, typically less than 0.1% of FS using a CO2 water bubbler. > > > > They are not designed for watervapor to condense in the cell, this > > > > will create noise of up to +-10% FS > > > > If you have a CO meter that is senstive to water vapor the standard > > > > practice is to use a calcium carbonate desicant, a correction formula > > > > is in 40 CFR 86. > > > > There are also FTIR analyzers in use which can use > > > > software correction for most interference conditions. > > > > I have also tried mass spectrometry but there is a huge CO2 > > > > overlap, so you must use special cryo trapping. Horibia > > > > just came out with a commercial MS system, but I have not reviewed > > > > it. For exhaust sample water elimination at least 2 filters or > > > > needed Balston makes several grades of coaelesing filters for > > > > automotive use. > > > > > But the question is, is H2 spectrometry doable in this case? > > > > > > > > > This method was standard practice for many moon's, probably > > > > since 30's? I used a Baily combustable A/F meter untill 77 at Carter > > > > Carb. we then went to 5 gas analysis and in 78 to Horibia A/F meter > > > > for faster response. > > > > The Bailey unit burned 100% H2 gas and has I recall was not very > > > > good above 14.7. Handheld portable H2 are widely used in chemistry > > > > industry for flammable gas safety. very sensitive, we could detect > > > > H2 gas from can of soda. I was looking into the sensors about 10 yrs > > > > ago, the price varies alot, handhelds under $200?, I did remember > > > > finding just sensor for about $30 somewhere. > > > > alex > > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 21:58:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA01487 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:58:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA01483 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:58:04 -0400 From: AJLegere@aol.com Received: from AJLegere@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id 7SZAa11929 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:56:26 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:56:26 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Injectors Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Will these fit into a GM TPI manifold? How about the plugs and the coil impedance? Any thoughts? AJL From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 22:18:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01702 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:18:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01698 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:18:09 -0400 Received: from snyder.huron.net (slip129-37-167-199.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.199]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA59938 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 02:18:06 GMT Message-ID: <35EF4E42.525E@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 22:19:46 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: it's dead, jim References: <35EF20E2.8C4CFE6@ibmoto.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Carmine wrote: > > James Weiler wrote: > > > I assume this is a GM?? From what I've heard and experienced GM has a > > little problem with ignition modules. This is seperate from your ECM. > > Cost is about $200 from a dealer. > > HTH > > jw > > > > On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Andrew F. Gunnesch wrote: > > > > > Well, my '89 GTA died today. It won't start. It cranks and cranks and > > > occasionally I'll get a spark to one or two cylinders, but not enough > > > to sustain combustion in order to drive it home. > > > > > > I don't have any diagnosing information right now, as the car's at work > > > and am I, and all my tools and manuals are at home. *sigh* > > > > > > Wish me luck. I hope it's not my ECM. > > > > > > --andrew > > > > > I don't think it's the ECM. It's likely to be the ignition > coil. > > Carmine With waste fire ignition, there has been some problems with the coils burning through the module, particularly on engines that have exhibited a miss. A bad plug wire puts the voltage WAY up, and since it has to go somewhere, the module (mounted under the coil, and between the coil and the engine "ground" ends up taking the arc - and dying in the process. -- _/\_ --|-----([])-----|-- S 0/ \0 B Looks like we've finally fixed it!!! I am still clare.snyder.on.ca@ibm.net Snyder.on.ca is BACK ON THE NET!!! With any luck, I will be Clare@snyder.on.ca real soon!!! Clare Snyder Waterloo, Ontario From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 22:55:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02232 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:55:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from UPIMSSMTPUSR06 ([207.68.143.179]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02225 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:55:03 -0400 Received: from default - 153.36.104.122 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:54:51 -0700 From: "David" To: Subject: RE: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:56:59 -0500 Message-ID: <001a01bdd7af$aef0b0a0$7a682499@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <000301bdd78f$de2e18a0$d87d18cb@mainpc> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am sorry. It appears I missed a post about the GM Cross Fire Injection for sale. Who is selling it? And how much? Thanks, David Edwards > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Ross Myers > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 3:03 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale > > > > > >I have one of these also and they work good. You might want to consider > >upgrading the injectors to 2" bore (Holley, I think) for > 350-383-400 CI. or > >use it as is on a 305-327-350. Just a thought. More is better. Tom > > > Tom did you ever try opening up the intake runners a bit, you know how at > the end they are WAY smaller than the head ports. > > Also the 'swirl' plates at the bottom of the top plate, are these a > restriction or an aid. > > I like/hate my CFI, somedays it runs so good, but somedays I reckon it's > down at least 40Hp, I'm sure it must be a vac leak or the ECU has lost the > plot. > > Regards > > Ross > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 3 22:56:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02252 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:56:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02248 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 22:56:21 -0400 Received: from gte.net (1Cust196.tnt4.plano.tx.da.uu.net [208.252.135.196]) by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id VAA12771 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:32:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35EF5180.ACB1C670@gte.net> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 21:33:36 -0500 From: Terry X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ARC-2 References: <199809032238.RAA03701@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: ...snip.... > In there attempts they reported on trying a device called ARC-2 which > will adapt any airflow meter to any engine including MAP to MASS > and 0-5V to 5-0V and has provisions for changing A/F at various > flows. > alex Check out; http://www.splitsec.com/electronics.htm for more info on this... Seems like a crutch to me though.... T.(snake oil? no thanks - I'll pass) From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 00:04:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA02951 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:04:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA02947 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:04:49 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-15.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.84]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id AAA06878 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:04:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02dc01bdd7b9$904f9c60$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: ARC-2 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:07:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Terry To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 11:52 PM Subject: Re: ARC-2 >xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: >...snip.... >> In there attempts they reported on trying a device called ARC-2 which >> will adapt any airflow meter to any engine including MAP to MASS >> and 0-5V to 5-0V and has provisions for changing A/F at various >> flows. >> alex > >Check out; http://www.splitsec.com/electronics.htm > >for more info on this... Seems like a crutch to me though.... > >T.(snake oil? no thanks - I'll pass) > One metered dose, $500. Geez, I'm way too cheap for that. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 00:29:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA03245 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:29:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA03241 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:29:31 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DNAA32YS; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 00:29:21 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: jcalle@adinet.com.uy Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:47:31 -0400 Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Informaci=F3n?= Message-ID: <19980904.002733.11382.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01bdd718$2babaca0$d0f232cf@mio> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-12,22-24 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 18:52:24 +1000 "Javier Calle" writes: >De antemano les pido disculpas por escribir en Espa=F1ol, ya que mi = >ingl=E9s es mejor para leer que para redactar. =BFEs posible >suscribirse = >a la lista de discusi=F3n, a=FAn cuando se escriba en espa=F1ol? =20 >Por el otro lado quiero decirles que en el sitio de Uds.. he >encontrado = >el mejor material sobre inyecci=F3n electr=F3nica de toda la WEB. >Javier Calle=20 Hola, Javier Calle! Somos Ray y Mary Drouillard de Ferndale, Michigan en los Estados Unidos. Tenemos nuestro Jeep desde Mayo, 1997. En Enero de 1998, ponemos inyeccion electronico de gas y le divertimos nuestro Jeep mucho mas por eso. Ray y su Padre se hicieron esto proyecto su mismo con la ayuda de Holley Projection y Jacobs Electronics. Mary se habla Espan~ol y es una Enfermera Pediatria. Ray es un programodor de computadores (se escriba software de negocios) y se estudio para ser un enginero electrical y se fue a Lawrence Technological University. ?Donde vive Usted? ?Cual es su occupacion? Nuestro Jeep es un 1989 Grand Wagoneer y es el carro lo mas favorito de Ray por cierto. Mary Drouillard _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 01:49:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA03900 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:49:41 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03896 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:49:39 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm4-160.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.160]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20984 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:55:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35EF7FA1.EC4F898E@mcn.net> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:50:25 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: it's dead, jim References: <35EF20E2.8C4CFE6@ibmoto.com> <35EF4E42.525E@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey, folks. Unless there's some mod's been done, this car is Dizzy! But still could be ignition module burned out by HV arcing. Don't know where you checked for spark, but if it's remote coil, check for spark there first. Look for grey/white area along side of coil where spark arcs to frame. If no spark there, substitute test light (or test coil) for coil. To use light, need to jumper pink/pink and connect light pink/white (dist side). Just gotta eliminate possibilites one at a time. BTW, this module is somewhere around $35-40, if memory serves. Shannen Clare Snyder wrote: > > Carmine wrote: > > > > James Weiler wrote: > > > > > I assume this is a GM?? From what I've heard and experienced GM has a > > > little problem with ignition modules. This is seperate from your ECM. > > > Cost is about $200 from a dealer. > > > HTH > > > jw > > > > > > On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Andrew F. Gunnesch wrote: > > > > > > > Well, my '89 GTA died today. It won't start. It cranks and cranks and > > > > occasionally I'll get a spark to one or two cylinders, but not enough > > > > to sustain combustion in order to drive it home. > > > > > > > > I don't have any diagnosing information right now, as the car's at work > > > > and am I, and all my tools and manuals are at home. *sigh* > > > > > > > > Wish me luck. I hope it's not my ECM. > > > > > > > > --andrew > > > > > > > > I don't think it's the ECM. It's likely to be the ignition > > coil. > > > > Carmine > With waste fire ignition, there has been some problems with the coils > burning through the module, particularly on engines that have exhibited > a miss. A bad plug wire puts the voltage WAY up, and since it has to go > somewhere, the module (mounted under the coil, and between the coil and > the engine "ground" ends up taking the arc - and dying in the process. > -- > _/\_ > --|-----([])-----|-- > S 0/ \0 B > > Looks like we've finally fixed it!!! > I am still clare.snyder.on.ca@ibm.net > Snyder.on.ca is BACK ON THE NET!!! > With any luck, I will be Clare@snyder.on.ca real soon!!! > > Clare Snyder > Waterloo, Ontario From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 01:55:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA03973 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:55:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03969 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:55:31 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm4-160.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.160]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA22000 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 00:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35EF8100.8BD7EA2F@mcn.net> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:56:16 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ESC diagnostic References: <199809030450.AAA08176@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <35EEA610.1724265A@lmtas.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Lessee, knock box maintains 5v on sensor line. Sensor produces a/c voltage, so any change from 5v within reason means knox. Mebbee test lamp to battery positive and sensor line, in rapid on/off fashion will give desired results. It's what I'd try...12V seems high. Shannen Joe Boucher wrote: > > I don't think my ESC module is working. I was experiencing knocking, so I retarded my timing. Then I thought, that ain't the way this is supposed to work. So, I dug in the factory manual, and > found some diagnostics. > > I thought the system worked by grounding a wire from the ESC module through the knock sensor. The one in the Suburban was new when I installed the engine. The diagnostics said to disconnect > the knock sensor and hook that wire "momentarily" to a 12 volt source while watching the timing mark. Well, I tried both ways, 12 volt and grounding, and didn't notice any difference in the > timing. > > There was voltage at the ECS module, so it is powered. > > I forgot to hook the knock sensor up and the next day the check engine light came on. I rehooked the wire up and started the engine and the light was out. I was rushed and didn't use the ALDL > to look for trouble codes. I'm assuming the ECM somehow figured out the wire was disconnected, but how if the module isn't working? > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Joe (Looking for fly turds) Boucher > '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 04:06:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA04980 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 04:06:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from espace.dcl.com (espace.dcl.com [198.145.94.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA04976 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 04:06:28 -0400 From: talltom@espace.dcl.com Received: by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) id 24086; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:06:19 PDT Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 01:05:57 PDT To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: talltom@espace.dcl.com Message-ID: <009CBB28.A32CCA08.24086@espace.dcl.com> Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #411 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Joe, I'm kinda booked, and I'll get around to further testing this weekend. On the compression, my ear tells me that there are 3 even ones, and one weaker one. Expierience sez it seemed to hit on all of them fine when it would run and it was of a mind to. I suspect that all the starting attempts and rough idling when it died may have bled own the lifters/chain tensioner??? It is a pushrod engine, so the chances of it being rubber drivex seem rather remote. Thanks.. From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 09:44:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06762 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:44:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06758 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:44:30 -0400 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA12292 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from quest ([143.114.72.6]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with SMTP id <0EYR00BAMI65R6@lmco.com> for diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by quest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA05812; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:44:28 -0500 Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA19406; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:44:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:44:26 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Subject: Re: it's dead, jim To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <35EFEEBA.CC292291@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199809040900.FAA05315@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > From: Shannen Durphey > Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:50:25 -0600 > Subject: Re: it's dead, jim > The GM HEI distributor rotor has a problem with burning through the bottom of the rotor. The spark then jumps down instead of across to the plug wire post. Maybe the smaller distributor will do this also. I don't know which is on this car. Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 09:48:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06806 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:48:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.warpten.com (kcrain.esper.com [208.160.118.117]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06802 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:48:42 -0400 Received: from localhost (kevin@localhost) by mail.warpten.com (8.8.7/8.7.6) with SMTP id IAA06842 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:47:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Crain To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale In-Reply-To: <001a01bdd7af$aef0b0a0$7a682499@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It's me, I have agreed to an offer already but will re-post if the deal falls thru. System works great, nearly got me a speeding ticket on the way to work this morning! -Kevin On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, David wrote: > I am sorry. It appears I missed a post about the GM Cross Fire Injection > for sale. > > Who is selling it? And how much? > > Thanks, > > David Edwards > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Ross Myers > > Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 3:03 AM > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Subject: Re: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale > > > > > > > > > > >I have one of these also and they work good. You might want to consider > > >upgrading the injectors to 2" bore (Holley, I think) for > > 350-383-400 CI. or > > >use it as is on a 305-327-350. Just a thought. More is better. Tom > > > > > > Tom did you ever try opening up the intake runners a bit, you know how at > > the end they are WAY smaller than the head ports. > > > > Also the 'swirl' plates at the bottom of the top plate, are these a > > restriction or an aid. > > > > I like/hate my CFI, somedays it runs so good, but somedays I reckon it's > > down at least 40Hp, I'm sure it must be a vac leak or the ECU has lost the > > plot. > > > > Regards > > > > Ross > > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 09:50:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06850 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:50:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06846 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:49:59 -0400 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA30524 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:49:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from quest ([143.114.72.6]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with SMTP id <0EYR00B3VIF9R6@lmco.com> for diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 07:49:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by quest (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA06025; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:49:56 -0500 Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA19683; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:49:55 -0500 Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 08:49:55 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #412 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <35EFF003.27645286@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199809040900.FAA05315@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > From: Shannen Durphey > Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:56:16 -0600 > Subject: Re: ESC diagnostic > > Lessee, knock box maintains 5v on sensor line. Sensor produces a/c > voltage, so any change from 5v within reason means knox. Mebbee test > lamp to battery positive and sensor line, in rapid on/off fashion will > give desired results. It's what I'd try...12V seems high. > Shannen > Yes, this is a GM and the one on my Suburban. Well, guess I'll try setting up the test again and instead of just making a contact, I'll see how fast I can move my hand and make and break the contact to the battery while holding the timing light with my other hand. How's that for a mechanical solution to a 555 circuit? Joe (Primitive) Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 10:31:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07627 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:31:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07623 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:31:54 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28079 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:31:53 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:31:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: 93 Z28 proms - some results - and questions Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have several different versions of the 93 chip. I also have several version of my on chip (done by a tuner) that I know what was changed. I found several of the tables and was able to determine what some of it is. I found a table 1x17 that should be the closed->open loop throttle tables. It has values starting at 70% (hex) up to 4000 rpm or so, and then slowly decreases to about 20% at high rpms. I think this table has steps of 500 rpm. 250 or 300 rpm would not give the table enough range to even cover my cars stock operating area. How high to the gm tables generally go? I am guessing since the computers are used in alot of different vehicles that it going to 8000 would not be odd, since some of their other vehicles (which may use the same computer) may get to some of those higher rpms. Also where does the rpm start 0 or the first value (500)? I also found a table 16 rows x 17 columns. I am guessing this is the part throttle table. This table was identical on all of the aftermakert chips and the stock GM chip I had (not my stock gm chip). It was different on my custom chip (not a suprise I have bigger injectors). By the length of 17 I am guessing the rpm step is 500, and the 16 is the number of cells (diacom references 16 regions for the computer to be in). Does anyone know what conditions that are used to decide which of the 16 cells are used? This is a MAP car (no MAF). I am guessing that to check all the cells I may need to fabricate a throttle stop to allow me to easily set the car in 1 region, or at least the same sets of regions through a run. I also found a table that I know is the WOT table. I had the tuner reduce my low end fuel, and found those reductions. This table is 1 row by more than 17 values (I don't know how many values), and since the reductions are up to 17 (and we were not reducing high end) that the step side is les than 500 (300 maybe, or 250?). I also found another table that my car has changes of about the right magnitude to adjust for bigger injectors. This table is I belive somewhere around 1x16 or so, would this be the idle enrichment table? Does idle use the part throttle cells above or does idle have its own table. By what diacom seems to say it looks like idle uses the part throttle tables to govern it, which would make this the idle enrichment table. Some other questions. What will the idle rpm/idle rpm in gear look like, I am assuming something like rpm/25 so it will fit in 1 hex location. I may be rpm/50 though. The revlimiter is set to 6700 so that would require it to be rpm/50 since rpm/25 >256, would that mean that any rpms represented in the talbes would probably be rpm/50 and not rpm/25? I am going to have to try looking for references to these locations in the code and try to figure out how they are indexed. Roger Heflin 93 Z28 From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 10:38:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07708 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:38:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07704 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:38:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (chickens@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/piglet.mc-1.4) with SMTP id JAA12232 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:38:09 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:38:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jake Sternberg X-Sender: chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #412 In-Reply-To: <199809040900.FAA05315@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I am sorry. It appears I missed a post about the GM Cross Fire Injection > for sale. > > Who is selling it? And how much? > > David Edwards too late, i've already told him i'm buying it. -jake From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 10:47:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07822 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:47:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from crash.netspeak.com (email.webphone.com [208.143.140.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07818 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:47:31 -0400 Received: by crash with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:45:45 -0400 Message-ID: From: Mike Pitts To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: Reversing the '8625 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 10:45:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id KAA07819 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all,   I've started the process of reversing the cal from an '8625 TBI PCM.  This is from a '93 4.3L CPI "W" engine code Olds Bravada (same as Blazer, etc).  The PCM also controls the 4L60E transmission.  This same PCM is also used on some 5.7L TBI trucks of the '93-'94 time frame.   I've sent the file to a couple of list elders already, but thought that I should let the general list know in case someone else is interested whom I don't know about.   At any time you may find the reversed cal at: http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/Bbnt.asm   I will update this file periodically as I make progress, which will no doubt be slow since I am *not* very good with assembler level code.  I am sure this will be littered with bugs, but it's all that I have.  If you find any in the code I would want to know about, please let me know.  I can be reached at: mailto:mpitts@emi.net   The ultimate goal is to find the transmission, fueling and spark parameters so I can turbocharge the engine and alter the shifting characteristics.  This may be of interest to those who would want to add a supercharger to this engine as well.   Thanks, -Mike   From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 11:46:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08900 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:46:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08895 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:46:39 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-15.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.33]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id LAA03240 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:46:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012b01bdd81b$a425cfe0$21198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #412 + CSH Diagnostic aid Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 11:49:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Joe Boucher To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 10:23 AM Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #412 >> From: Shannen Durphey >> Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:56:16 -0600 >> Subject: Re: ESC diagnostic >> Lessee, knock box maintains 5v on sensor line. Sensor produces a/c voltage, so any change from 5v within reason means knox. Mebbee test lamp to battery positive and sensor line, in rapid on/off fashion will give desired results. It's what I'd try...12V seems high. >> Shannen >Yes, this is a GM and the one on my Suburban. >Well, guess I'll try setting up the test again and instead of just making a contact, I'll see how fast I can move my hand and make and break the contact to the battery while holding the timing light >with my other hand. >How's that for a mechanical solution to a 555 circuit? OK, for testing Distributor pick-up coils whatsa do?. How about holding your weller soldering gun right over it, and see if ya get a spark. Works best remote coil.. Cheers Bruce Doc likes running the above tests, cheaper than going to someone who knows what their doing for his electro- shock therapy > >Joe (Primitive) Boucher >'70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 12:17:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09554 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:17:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [207.25.206.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09549 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:17:41 -0400 Received: from dilbert (pix-138.nordson.com [207.206.59.138]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA19177 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <020601bdd81f$68bd3ca0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Fuel Curves Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:16:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Those old Lucas FI systems were completely non-low emissions and ran rich at low speeds. You may need just a little tweeking to lean out the high vacuum part of the curve. Maybe a slightly softer second spring, or a different angle on the ramp in that range. Gary Derian >Hello, > >What would an ideal plot of manifold vacuum versus injected fuel >quantity look like? I am still on the job of tuning my Lucas mechanical >injection - last night I measured the fuel curve and it seems a bit dodgy to >me (although my opinion is not very qualified). At low vac the fuel >delivery is high, and it drops very rapidly (and linearly) until it reaches >about one third of its original quantity, and then it changes slope and >linearly decreases until it gets to max vac. This means that about the first >10% of the total vac increase reduces the fuel quantity by about 66% >and the last 90% of vac reduces it by 33% (the two parts of the graph >are both linear of course because it relies on springs to derive the >curve). Does this seem good/bad/otherwise to anybody who knows? > >Any comments gratefully recieved. > >Regards > >Bruce Robertson >Lucas injected Bond Equipe Sufferer - New Zealand From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 14:56:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10941 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:56:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10937 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:56:09 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm3-128.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.128]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12003 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 13:01:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F037F4.97673F22@mcn.net> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 12:56:52 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V3 #412 References: <199809040900.FAA05315@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <35EFF003.27645286@lmtas.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Joe Boucher wrote: > > > > > > > From: Shannen Durphey > > Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 23:56:16 -0600 > > Subject: Re: ESC diagnostic > > > > Lessee, knock box maintains 5v on sensor line. Sensor produces a/c > > voltage, so any change from 5v within reason means knox. Mebbee test > > lamp to battery positive and sensor line, in rapid on/off fashion will > > give desired results. It's what I'd try...12V seems high. > > Shannen > > > > Yes, this is a GM and the one on my Suburban. > > Well, guess I'll try setting up the test again and instead of just making a contact, I'll see how fast I can move my hand and make and break the contact to the battery while holding the timing light > with my other hand. > > How's that for a mechanical solution to a 555 circuit? > > Joe (Primitive) Boucher > '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban Just remember not to set the circuit timing so as to cause cramps. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 16:08:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA11771 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:08:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rtmol.stt.it ([193.70.50.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11767 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:08:24 -0400 From: fpalumbo@rtmol.it Received: from default (ppp-05.rtmol.stt.it [193.70.50.35]) by rtmol.stt.it (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA19589 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:08:15 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980904220918.006d4c10@mail.rtmol.it> X-Sender: fpalumbo@mail.rtmol.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 22:09:18 +0200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Information Exchange In-Reply-To: <199809032238.RAA03698@dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does someone interested to exchange informations about Original Eprom Images for European Cars and/or informations for addresses to the function inside the same Eprom ? My database is more than 1300 cars and I would like to have more informations about the BOSCH Motronic series. Thanks for Your attention. Fabrizio Palumbo EFI Technologies http://www.axa.it/ame From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 16:24:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12210 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:24:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from orion.means.net (Orion.Means.Net [206.9.64.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12206 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:24:16 -0400 Received: from means.net (erskine-as5200b-152.dialup.means.net [206.10.26.152]) by orion.means.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA28741 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 15:23:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35F04C64.80B6857E@means.net> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 15:24:04 -0500 From: Dave Stinar X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: switching over carb to fi on ford 302. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm currently rebuilding a boat that has a 302 ford engine is it. What my question to all of you is, should I look at scavenging parts for the FI off of a car or should I take a look at those after market kits? The boating season will be gone here in MN before I'll even get a chance to drop it in the water, so time is of no mater, I'm looking at factors like: Price, Reliability, and ease of finding replacement parts. Any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated. Dave From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 17:35:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13221 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:35:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send104.yahoomail.com (send104.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.122]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA13217 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:35:10 -0400 Message-ID: <19980904213546.25996.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com> Received: from [152.163.213.196] by send104.yahoomail.com; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 14:35:46 PDT Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 14:35:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Macpherson Subject: Re: Motronic 0261 200 XXX EPROM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ---fpalumbo@rtmol.it wrote: > > At 14.02 01/09/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Does nayone have a copy of an eprom from any BMW with lambdasond, and > >bosch number: > > 0 261 200 XXX if anyone does, could they please send it as an atached > >file to > > > > > > > >cheers > >mike > >_________________________________________________________ > >DO YOU YAHOO!? > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > Hi Mike, I have lot of eprom which the same number, please can You specify > which type of car do You need ? > > Best Regards. > > Fabrizio Palumbo > EFI Technologies > > http://www.axa.it/ame > E-Mail : ame@axa.it Basicly any one which which has 0261 200 XXX and was equiped with lambdasond, i have a volvo 760 turbo which is 0261 200 012, it has circuitry for an O2 sensor, because the boxes are all pretty much identical, the idea is to take the part of the map assosiated with lambdasond, so that the box will respond to the O2 sensor, whether it will work or not i dont know, if you could send me a file from any 0261 200 box from a car with lambdasond i would be very very greatful. cheers mike please reply to Volvo764ti@aol.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 18:24:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14009 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:24:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14005 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:24:06 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-38.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.56]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id SAA08886 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008a01bdd853$259440c0$42198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: switching over carb to fi on ford 302. Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:26:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Dave Stinar Subject: switching over carb to fi on ford 302. >I'm currently rebuilding a boat that has a 302 ford engine is it. >What my question to all of you is, should I look at scavenging parts for the FI off of a car or should I take a look at those after market kits? Got paddles, aftermarket, OK. I have yet to see a aftermarket offer a 50,000 mile warranty. I'd suggest using a version of ecm used in the engine compartment, if possible. Simpler means more compromises For more money they get consumer friendlier If you want to use a laptop, and min your time investment the aftermarket is a consideration. A replacement ecm can run 4-500 dolars for aftermarket. A oem version, can be had for $50. Down side is the Ford boxes aren't too well cracked for the DIYer. So means running chevy, if ya want to say money. Lots of things to think about. Bruce > >The boating season will be gone here in MN before I'll even get a chance >to drop it in the water, so time is of no mater, I'm looking at factors >like: Price, Reliability, and ease of finding replacement parts. > >Any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated. >Dave > From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 20:31:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00529 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:31:11 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from firewall.radisys.com (gateway.radisys.com [206.102.10.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00525 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:31:08 -0400 Received: by firewall.radisys.com (Smail-3.2.0.102 1998-Aug-2 #1) id ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F0879A.A31186A5@bigfoot.com> Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 17:36:43 -0700 From: Matt Bossard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, mpitts@emi.net Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 References: <19980905000417.16254.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike, I am very interested in your project. I am also planning to reverse the cal from a PCM out of a '95 TBI 5.7L truck. The number on the the PCM was not printed very well, but it looks like 0764700. I wonder if this cal prom will turn out to be similar to yours? Did you start off with any knowledge of the contents of the prom to begin with? What has been your basic plan of attack? Thanks for posting the link to the data. I will be eager to see the progress you make. Thanks, -Matt > Hi all, > > I've started the process of reversing the cal from an '8625 TBI PCM. > This is from a '93 4.3L CPI "W" engine code Olds Bravada (same as > Blazer, etc). The PCM also controls the 4L60E transmission. This > same PCM is also used on some 5.7L TBI trucks of the '93-'94 time > frame. > > I've sent the file to a couple of list elders already, but thought that I > should let the general list know in case someone else is interested > whom I don't know about. > > At any time you may find the reversed cal at: > http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/Bbnt.asm > > I will update this file periodically as I make progress, which will no > doubt be slow since I am *not* very good with assembler level code. > I am sure this will be littered with bugs, but it's all that I have. If > you find any in the code I would want to know about, please let > me know. I can be reached at: mailto:mpitts@emi.net > > The ultimate goal is to find the transmission, fueling and spark > parameters so I can turbocharge the engine and alter the shifting > characteristics. This may be of interest to those who would want > to add a supercharger to this engine as well. > > Thanks, > -Mike From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 22:24:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01508 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:24:26 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01504 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:24:25 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA04316 for mail_from ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:21:02 -0600 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 20:21:02 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: switching over carb to fi on ford 302. Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >I'm currently rebuilding a boat that has a 302 ford engine is it. >What my question to all of you is, should I look at scavenging parts for >the FI off of a car or should I take a look at those after market kits? > >The boating season will be gone here in MN before I'll even get a chance >to drop it in the water, so time is of no mater, I'm looking at factors >like: Price, Reliability, and ease of finding replacement parts. > >Any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated. >Dave Hi Dave, I have a buddy who has a seriously built 351 W which is without a current home. It was always a carb motor, but likely could be converted to FI as easily as a 302. But my thought was that just the 351 with a Holley might well get you more for less, particularly if the 302 is stock and/or a bit tired. Let me know if you want me to pursue it for you. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 4 23:38:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02256 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:38:36 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from zeus.candw.lc (zeus.candw.lc [206.48.60.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA02252 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:38:31 -0400 Received: from [206.48.60.100] by zeus.candw.lc (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.adzz) with ESMTP id ha177717 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:36:18 -0300 Message-ID: <35ED272B.23279F25@candw.lc> Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 07:08:29 -0400 From: Martin Powlette Organization: Auto Service & Repairs Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" CC: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Synthetic Oil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am interested in a synthetic oil which brand is a better choice and what are retail prices like ??? Here we pay almost $10 US per qt Castrol Syntec. Can you guys suggest bulk locations in the Miami area?? How good is Amsoil ?? Many thanks, Martin From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 01:24:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA03084 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 01:24:05 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-server.wwi-noc ([208.237.64.201]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03080 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 01:24:02 -0400 Received: from default (unverified [206.83.73.78]) by mail-server.wwi-noc (Vircom SMTPRS 1.0.166) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 04 Sep 1998 17:23:03 -0400 Message-ID: <002801bdd84a$11e45c80$0100000a@default> From: "Gene" To: Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 17:22:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu mike have you thought that you may be reinventing the wheel gm has already done this turbo thing to a 4.4 v6 blazer -------- its called a typhoon (blazer) or syclone (s-10 pick-up) why not use their pcm gene jones -----Original Message----- From: Mike Pitts To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 11:18 AM Subject: Reversing the '8625 >Hi all, > >I've started the process of reversing the cal from an '8625 TBI PCM. >This is from a '93 4.3L CPI "W" engine code Olds Bravada (same as >Blazer, etc). The PCM also controls the 4L60E transmission. This >same PCM is also used on some 5.7L TBI trucks of the '93-'94 time >frame. > >I've sent the file to a couple of list elders already, but thought that I >should let the general list know in case someone else is interested >whom I don't know about. > >At any time you may find the reversed cal at: >http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/Bbnt.asm > >I will update this file periodically as I make progress, which will no >doubt be slow since I am *not* very good with assembler level code. >I am sure this will be littered with bugs, but it's all that I have. If >you find any in the code I would want to know about, please let >me know. I can be reached at: mailto:mpitts@emi.net > >The ultimate goal is to find the transmission, fueling and spark >parameters so I can turbocharge the engine and alter the shifting >characteristics. This may be of interest to those who would want >to add a supercharger to this engine as well. > >Thanks, >-Mike > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 02:20:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA03465 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 02:20:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mozart.bcit.bc.ca (aix4.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.164]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA03461 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 02:20:15 -0400 Received: from Default (usr015.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.188.115]) by mozart.bcit.bc.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA12820 for ; Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:19:33 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 23:19:33 -0700 Message-Id: <199809050619.XAA12820@mozart.bcit.bc.ca> X-Sender: ffnsp955@pophost.bcit.bc.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id CAA03462 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Mike and all Before someone gets serious bout this thing can someone confirm the BBNT cal as being for the 8625 PCM???? I have it as a cal for the 16156930 ECM Of course could be wrong :peter At 10:45 AM 9/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >Hi all, >  >I've started the process of reversing the cal from an '8625 TBI PCM.  >This is from a '93 4.3L CPI "W" engine code Olds Bravada (same as >Blazer, etc).  The PCM also controls the 4L60E transmission.  This >same PCM is also used on some 5.7L TBI trucks of the '93-'94 time >frame. >  >I've sent the file to a couple of list elders already, but thought that I >should let the general list know in case someone else is interested >whom I don't know about. >  >At any time you may find the reversed cal at: >http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/Bbnt.asm >  >I will update this file periodically as I make progress, which will no >doubt be slow since I am *not* very good with assembler level code.  >I am sure this will be littered with bugs, but it's all that I have.  If >you find any in the code I would want to know about, please let >me know.  I can be reached at: mailto:mpitts@emi.net >  >The ultimate goal is to find the transmission, fueling and spark >parameters so I can turbocharge the engine and alter the shifting >characteristics.  This may be of interest to those who would want >to add a supercharger to this engine as well. >  >Thanks, >-Mike >  > > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 03:04:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA03719 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:04:50 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA03715 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 03:04:49 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm2-093.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.93]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA00556 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 01:10:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F0E2B9.D79DF776@mcn.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 01:05:30 -0600 From: ShannenDurphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil References: <35ED272B.23279F25@candw.lc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Martin Powlette wrote: > I am interested in a synthetic oil which brand is a better choice and > what are retail prices like ??? Here we pay almost $10 US per qt > Castrol Syntec. > Can you guys suggest bulk locations in the Miami area?? > How good is Amsoil ?? > > Many thanks, > Martin Not going to recommend brands, but I use Mobil One and the local bulk distributors are selling it for $3.52/qt bottle. Was in Wal-mart the other day, 5qt bottle of the stuff costs $15. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 07:01:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04742 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:01:31 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA04738 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:01:29 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p26.scotland.net [148.176.232.26]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28217 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:00:19 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35F193DB.2D3C1FEB@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 20:41:15 +0100 From: am018 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ESC diagnostic References: <199809030450.AAA08176@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <35EEA610.1724265A@lmtas.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Try (lightly) hitting the block with hammer ner the sensor with engine idling on some systems it will cause the idle speed to hunt. Joe Boucher wrote: > I don't think my ESC module is working. I was experiencing knocking, so I retarded my timing. Then I thought, that ain't the way this is supposed to work. So, I dug in the factory manual, and > found some diagnostics. > > I thought the system worked by grounding a wire from the ESC module through the knock sensor. The one in the Suburban was new when I installed the engine. The diagnostics said to disconnect > the knock sensor and hook that wire "momentarily" to a 12 volt source while watching the timing mark. Well, I tried both ways, 12 volt and grounding, and didn't notice any difference in the > timing. > > There was voltage at the ECS module, so it is powered. > > I forgot to hook the knock sensor up and the next day the check engine light came on. I rehooked the wire up and started the engine and the light was out. I was rushed and didn't use the ALDL > to look for trouble codes. I'm assuming the ECM somehow figured out the wire was disconnected, but how if the module isn't working? > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Joe (Looking for fly turds) Boucher > '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 07:03:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA04752 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:03:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.64.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA04747 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 07:03:14 -0400 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p26.scotland.net [148.176.232.26]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA28266 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:02:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <35F19447.9227F3C8@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 20:43:03 +0100 From: am018 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil References: <35ED272B.23279F25@candw.lc> <35F0E2B9.D79DF776@mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mobile1 is the best but the price here in the UK it is 29UKP for 4 litres. ShannenDurphey wrote: > Martin Powlette wrote: > > > I am interested in a synthetic oil which brand is a better choice and > > what are retail prices like ??? Here we pay almost $10 US per qt > > Castrol Syntec. > > Can you guys suggest bulk locations in the Miami area?? > > How good is Amsoil ?? > > > > Many thanks, > > Martin > > Not going to recommend brands, but I use Mobil One and the local bulk > distributors are selling it for $3.52/qt bottle. Was in Wal-mart the > other day, 5qt bottle of the stuff costs $15. > Shannen > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 11:06:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06014 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:06:03 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from emi.net (emi.net [208.10.128.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06010 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:06:02 -0400 Received: from EmiNet (max3-35.emi.net [208.10.129.147]) by emi.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA23472 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:03:09 -0400 Message-ID: <002501bdd8de$a0d07fc0$93810ad0@EmiNet.emi.net> From: "Mike Pitts" To: Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:05:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2922.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2922.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>can someone confirm the BBNT cal as being for >>the 8625 PCM I can confirm it because I read the numbers right off the PCM and the mempak themselves. I can pull the PCM box again and send a digital photo if you would like to see it (there were other numbers on the stickers too). The '8625 number was listed as the "service number". BBNT is on the quartz window sticker, it's inkjet printed on the blue plastic portion of the mempak, and it's also part of some codes on the barcode stickers attached to the PCM. >>I have it as a cal for the 16156930 ECM Since you brought this up, what I would like to know is, are these two boxes interchangable? Too bad they don't have the cal designation embedded in the EPROM in ASCII format...or maybe they do. -Mike ========================================== Mike Pitts Delray Beach, FL mpitts@emi.net http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/mike.htm ========================================== From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 11:21:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06112 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:21:46 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06108 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 11:21:45 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm3-103.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.103]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21316 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F15732.E9739A98@mcn.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 09:22:26 -0600 From: ShannenDurphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 References: <199809050619.XAA12820@mozart.bcit.bc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Nope. BCC of BBNT/9734 fits 1993 s/t trucks, cpi. fed emissions, 16156930ecm which was superceded to 16197427. Sounds like you have my kind of luck. That's the only 1993 4.3W application which does not use the 8625 ECM. BTW, I show that the 16168625 ecm is superceded to part no. 16196395. Shannen peter paul fenske wrote: > > Hi Mike and all > > Before someone gets serious bout this thing > can someone confirm the BBNT cal as being for > the 8625 PCM???? > > I have it as a cal for the > 16156930 ECM > > Of course could be wrong > > :peter > > At 10:45 AM 9/4/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >I've started the process of reversing the cal from an '8625 TBI PCM. > >This is from a '93 4.3L CPI "W" engine code Olds Bravada (same as > >Blazer, etc). The PCM also controls the 4L60E transmission. This > >same PCM is also used on some 5.7L TBI trucks of the '93-'94 time > >frame. > > > >I've sent the file to a couple of list elders already, but thought that I > >should let the general list know in case someone else is interested > >whom I don't know about. > > > >At any time you may find the reversed cal at: > >http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/Bbnt.asm > > > >I will update this file periodically as I make progress, which will no > >doubt be slow since I am *not* very good with assembler level code. > >I am sure this will be littered with bugs, but it's all that I have. If > >you find any in the code I would want to know about, please let > >me know. I can be reached at: mailto:mpitts@emi.net > > > >The ultimate goal is to find the transmission, fueling and spark > >parameters so I can turbocharge the engine and alter the shifting > >characteristics. This may be of interest to those who would want > >to add a supercharger to this engine as well. > > > >Thanks, > >-Mike > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 12:11:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06708 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:11:40 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06704 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:11:37 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm3-103.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.103]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA04071 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F162E1.73536CE0@mcn.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 10:12:17 -0600 From: ShannenDurphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 References: <002501bdd8de$a0d07fc0$93810ad0@EmiNet.emi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike- can you give me the four numbers that go with the letters? The GM service software uses the letter/number combination to give info. Possibly, there are two with same letters, different numbers. BTW, There must be something strange going on here, as I've checked two different sources and come up with the same ECM#. I'm sure you already know that the service # is the one to check. Possibly someone stuffed a used pcm into your Bravada? Just as a note, I've seen Olds cars come from the factory with the wrong proms installed. They were really good for that when they were making the 3.0l carb'ed v-6. The ecm and prom would be "wrong" for the car, and they didn't match each other, either. Yet the car ran fine, no complaints. Haven't seen it too much with EFI, maybe a couple of times with 2.8 proms in 3.1 cars, but I suspected the customers in those cases. Shannen Mike Pitts wrote: > > >>can someone confirm the BBNT cal as being for > >>the 8625 PCM > > I can confirm it because I read the numbers right off the > PCM and the mempak themselves. I can pull the PCM > box again and send a digital photo if you would like to > see it (there were other numbers on the stickers too). > The '8625 number was listed as the "service number". > > BBNT is on the quartz window sticker, it's inkjet printed > on the blue plastic portion of the mempak, and it's also > part of some codes on the barcode stickers attached to > the PCM. > > >>I have it as a cal for the 16156930 ECM > > Since you brought this up, what I would like to know is, > are these two boxes interchangable? > > Too bad they don't have the cal designation embedded > in the EPROM in ASCII format...or maybe they do. > > -Mike > ========================================== > Mike Pitts > Delray Beach, FL > mpitts@emi.net > http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/mike.htm > ========================================== From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 12:23:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:23:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ewd-web.ellisonwindow.com (pc2.ellisonwindow.com [209.193.145.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06797 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:23:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199809051623.MAA06797@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: from nikita ([207.144.104.247]) by ewd-web.ellisonwindow.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 103-49079U100L100S0) with ESMTP id AAA267; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:23:29 -0400 From: "Francois Dion" To: , Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:25:08 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > De : Martin Powlette > I am interested in a synthetic oil which brand is a better choice and > what are retail prices like ??? Here we pay almost $10 US per qt > Castrol Syntec. That is highway robbery! A 5 quart container of Mobil 1 15w50 full synthetic is $15 at walmart while a box with 6 one quart is around $22. Syntec prices were similar except they dont have the 5 quart bottle. Ciao, Francois Dion (francois@hyperreal.org) -- Member: FLU #1722, PCNA http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/zagato/101/launch.html Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Lancia, Peugeot, Volvo, Solex From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 13:15:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07339 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:15:10 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from post5.inre.asu.edu (post5.inre.asu.edu [129.219.110.86]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07335 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:15:09 -0400 Received: from smtp1.asu.edu by asu.edu (PMDF V5.1-10 #24133) with ESMTP id <01J1FZLW6Y4G9CHEOT@asu.edu> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 10:15:08 MST Received: from wiredev.asu.edu (wiredev.asu.edu [129.219.9.54]) by smtp1.asu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA04847; Sat, 05 Sep 1998 10:15:06 -0700 (MST) Received: (from falconer@localhost) by wiredev.asu.edu (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA06945; Sat, 05 Sep 1998 10:13:16 -0700 Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 10:13:15 -0700 From: Adrian Teo Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil In-reply-to: Francois Dion <"Re: Synthetic Oil"@asu.edu> (Sep 5, 12:25) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, toyota-mods@cyberauto.com Message-id: <9809051013.ZM6944@wiredev.asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <199809051623.MAA06797@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sep 5, 12:25, Francois Dion wrote: > That is highway robbery! A 5 quart container of Mobil 1 15w50 full > synthetic is $15 at walmart while a box with 6 one quart > is around $22. Syntec prices were similar except they dont have > the 5 quart bottle. Actually, that is the situation elsewhere in the world. We (in the US) pay one of the lowest prices for motor oil, gas or similar petroleum products. Average price of synthetic motor oil (M1, Shell Helix Ultra) in Asia : US$30 Average price of premium gas: $3.50-$4/gal -AT -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Adrian Teo e-mail: adrian.teo@asu.edu System Administator Instruction Support, Arizona State University Ph: 602.965.9411 Fx: 602.965.2724 Pg:602.204.1831 e-page: adrian@falcon.asu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 13:43:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07538 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:43:30 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.jax (mail.jax.bellsouth.net [205.152.64.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07534 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:43:29 -0400 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-214-128-77.jax.bellsouth.net [209.214.128.77]) by mail.jax (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA18797; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35F177AF.E2C89B0B@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 13:41:03 -0400 From: mrvette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: toyota-mods@cyberauto.com Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil References: <199809051623.MAA06797@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <9809051013.ZM6944@wiredev.asu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu everywhere else they tax the hell out of gas and oil....the cost of production/pumping is less there than here, what with the EPA and all.... We just won't as a nation tolerate excessive taxes on petroleum products...we need it to support the american lifestyle....GENE -- ____________ Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ /| /______\____/______\ |\ (( | / | | \ | )) Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | |~==============================~| |_____| |_____| ------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 14:33:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07960 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:33:54 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from emi.net (emi.net [208.10.128.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07956 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:33:53 -0400 Received: from EmiNet (max3-18.emi.net [208.10.129.130]) by emi.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA31837 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:30:58 -0400 Message-ID: <004501bdd8fb$a96373a0$82810ad0@EmiNet.emi.net> From: "Mike Pitts" To: Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 14:33:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2922.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2922.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Okay, pulled the PCM again . These trucks are somewhat rare, compared to the Blazers, so it's possible they use a different PCM. This truck is also all-wheel-drive, and has the towing package option, so that may have a been a factor in PCM choice as well. The sticker on the EPROM reads: DELCO 4892 2303 I thought it had BBNT on the EPROM sticker but it didn't. It *does* have BBNT printed on the outside of the blue mempak cover however, in the following format: DELCO BBNT 9734 FWIW: The ESC filter board in the mempak has 1192307. The labels on the outside of the PCM read: ---------------------------------------------- SERV. NO. 16168625 BBNT {BARCODE} *86BBNTK223160167* ---------------------------------------------- 16179571 BBNT {BARCODE} *86BBNTK223160167* ---------------------------------------------- The PCM is the usual size with one red and one blue connector on the end. Both connectors have 2 rows of 16 pins each. I *highly* doubt the PCM has been replaced at any time. I have all the service records (even the oil change receipts). And there is no sign that it was ever removed before I got my grubby little hands on it. :) Looking in through the access cover, the main board has "177A183 P5" etched on it. Maybe this is a P5 PCM? Regardless of whether it's wierd, it's the one it uses and therefore, the one I will be using. With y'all's help, I've been making a fair amount of progress! Thanks! -Mike ========================================== Mike Pitts Delray Beach, FL mpitts@emi.net http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/mike.htm ========================================== From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 15:38:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08308 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:38:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.mailsorter.net (mail2.mailsorter.net [209.132.1.32]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08304 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:38:22 -0400 Received: from paccomm ([12.70.77.36]) by mail2.mailsorter.net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA2242 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 12:33:25 -0700 From: "Gwyn Reedy" To: Subject: Re: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:27:34 -0400 Message-ID: <01bdd903$3bd84380$LocalHost@paccomm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I saw a later post saying you had accepted an offer and since I never got a response to my message to you, I presume it was someone else. If that deal falls through, contact me please. Gwyn Reedy Brandon, FL -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Crain To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Saturday, August 29, 1998 6:13 PM Subject: GM Cross Fire Injection For Sale >Swapping a TPI system into my 1982 Chevy Camaro Z-28, the factory Cross >Fire Injection system is up for sale. This is a dual-TBI system, intake >designed such that each TBI feeds the opposite cylinder bank on a V-8. >Long runners, lotsa low-end grunt. > >This is a complete system, including the factory ECM (stock and Hypertech >chips), Electronic Spark Control module, distributor, engine >compartment wiring harness, in-tank fuel pump, TBIs, intake manifold for >small-block Chevy, air filter housing, and all sensors and relays. It >works great, is currently pushing my Z to/from work daily. Will pull the >top plate and TBIs so as to leave them balanced, ready to bolt up and run. > >Throwing in two brand-new GM rebuild kits for the TBIs, bought last year >when I was prepping to do a Bruce Plecan hop-up on it, cost me $35 each. >System will be available for shipment Sep 18th. Asking $200 US or best >offer. > >-Kevin Crain >-Knoxville, TN > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 16:54:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08775 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:54:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08769 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:54:28 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id NAA14342 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seamail.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 5 Sep 1998 20:54:18 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <7F57DC2D45ADD11196B700A0C99B563259DAEA@seamail.perkinscoie.com> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle body Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 13:53:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu howdy. I was recently forwarded a good article on putting a L-jetronic from a renault fuego into a mgb from Dave Chu (thanks). and I was wondering if anyone knew the merits of using a LH-Jetronic vs the L, the hot-wire system in the LH appeals to me. however it does use a lamda or O2 sensor, (the L does not), and I have read somewhere in the archives that the LH, idles very lean, which is something I hear and see that the mgb is extremely happy with. I believe but I'm not sure that the stock cam is still in the engine. also, would anyone have or know of where I can get a ford tempo throttle body ? the one in the article has the fuel regulator build into it and according to the article , works in any position, which sounds pretty neat, but it doesn't state the year of car it came out of. the article came from england, and what they call a ford tempo there might be a lot different here, or not here at all. or does anyone know of an easy to obtain (in the US), throttle body & intake hardware, plenum ? for a 1800cc size motor? if it has a bosch throttle positioning switch that would be real nice. thanks, Ted. From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 17:03:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA08942 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:03:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08938 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 17:03:49 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm2-086.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.86]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15874 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 15:09:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F1A75D.D2BC81E4@mcn.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 15:04:29 -0600 From: ShannenDurphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Reversing the '8625 References: <004501bdd8fb$a96373a0$82810ad0@EmiNet.emi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, the calibration letters/numbers match up to what I have. But with BBNT on the ECM sticker, there is no doubt in my mind that the chip/pcm are a factory original combo. It's very possible that the dealer's parts listing shows the same replacement pcm for both numbers. The way they change #'s is incredible. I have a pcm from a 93? pickup, 350/4l80e. I'll have to check the BCC in that against my references. BTW, how did you read the eprom? Shannen Mike Pitts wrote: > > Okay, pulled the PCM again . These trucks are > somewhat rare, compared to the Blazers, so it's possible > they use a different PCM. This truck is also all-wheel-drive, > and has the towing package option, so that may have a > been a factor in PCM choice as well. > > The sticker on the EPROM reads: > > DELCO > 4892 > 2303 > > I thought it had BBNT on the EPROM sticker but it didn't. It > *does* have BBNT printed on the outside of the blue mempak > cover however, in the following format: > > DELCO > BBNT 9734 > > FWIW: The ESC filter board in the mempak has 1192307. > > The labels on the outside of the PCM read: > ---------------------------------------------- > SERV. NO. 16168625 BBNT > {BARCODE} > *86BBNTK223160167* > ---------------------------------------------- > 16179571 BBNT > {BARCODE} > *86BBNTK223160167* > ---------------------------------------------- > > The PCM is the usual size with one red and one blue > connector on the end. Both connectors have 2 rows of > 16 pins each. > > I *highly* doubt the PCM has been replaced at any time. > I have all the service records (even the oil change receipts). > And there is no sign that it was ever removed before I > got my grubby little hands on it. :) > > Looking in through the access cover, the main board has > "177A183 P5" etched on it. Maybe this is a P5 PCM? > > Regardless of whether it's wierd, it's the one it uses and > therefore, the one I will be using. With y'all's help, I've been > making a fair amount of progress! > > Thanks! > -Mike > ========================================== > Mike Pitts > Delray Beach, FL > mpitts@emi.net > http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/mike.htm > ========================================== From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 18:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09560 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:02:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09556 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:02:10 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA07058 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:02:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:05:49 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle body In-Reply-To: <7F57DC2D45ADD11196B700A0C99B563259DAEA@seamail.perkinscoie.com> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > I was recently forwarded a good article on putting a L-jetronic from a > renault fuego into a mgb from Dave Chu (thanks). and I was wondering if > anyone knew the merits of using a LH-Jetronic vs the L, the hot-wire > system in the LH appeals to me. however it does use a lamda or O2 > sensor, (the L does not) I'd go with something *with* lambda. Downside is the need for unleaded, upside is the closed loop will trim the mixture in. L-Jet does not have lambda LU-Jet is same w/lambda Models of the AMC (Renault) Alliance had LU-Jet Various Fiat had L-Jet w/lambda BMW 318i up to 85 had LU-Jet I'd think that the 318i would be an easy plug-n-play. I don't think there's many LH-Jet systems for that small of motor. Keep in mind that none of these, L, LU, LH, have uP based computers. There'll all full analog. The parts to make the L(U) don't all have to come from the 318i, you could use pieces from the others I listed. The Peugeot ZDJL motor (2165cc) used LU-Jet and was pretty low performance so it could be a source too. Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota all used used L-Jet variants at some point too. Probst's and Watson's books are good places to look. From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 22:43:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA10894 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:43:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from turing.une.edu.au (turing.une.edu.au [129.180.11.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10890 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:43:04 -0400 Received: (from bmarsh@localhost) by turing.une.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA29691; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:43:01 +1000 (EST) Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:43:01 +1000 (EST) From: Benjamin Marsh To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All Just wondering - The L-jet, being a common efi system does that mean I can remove the restrictive air-flow sensor from my subaru and replace it with a higher flowing nissan or toyota one from a model using L-jet without confusing the computer at all. Also if my computer were to die, could I just plug in a computer from a similar L-jet toyota??? Regards, Ben Marsh From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 23:17:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11222 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:17:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA11218 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:17:32 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-15.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.15]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA19552 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 20:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F1FD42.5E43@pacbell.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 20:10:58 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No. Benjamin Marsh wrote: > > Hi All > > Just wondering - The L-jet, being a common efi system does that mean I > can remove the restrictive air-flow sensor from my subaru and replace it > with a higher flowing nissan or toyota one from a model using L-jet > without confusing the computer at all. Also if my computer were to die, > could I just plug in a computer from a similar L-jet toyota??? From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 23:24:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11381 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:24:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA11377 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:24:34 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm4-154.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.154]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA21497 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 21:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F20098.BD06D3F1@mcn.net> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 21:25:12 -0600 From: ShannenDurphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Identifying broadcast codes. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If posting a request for a GM broadcast code ID, it sure makes life easier if you can include the four numbers from the eprom/calpack. Some of the newer cal's will have an 8 digit part no. (4 + 4) rather than a BCC, but the BCC should be on the outside of the control no. Thanks, Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 5 23:32:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11521 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:32:57 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.earthworld.com (comet.ethergate.com [209.210.7.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA11517 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:32:56 -0400 Received: from dialup-9-218.ethergate.net [209.210.9.218] by mail.earthworld.com (SMTPD32-4.04) id A24053250124; Sat, 05 Sep 1998 20:32:16 PDT Message-ID: <35F1F51F.1236@earthworld.com> Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 19:36:15 -0700 From: Jon X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: eec4 questions References: <004501bdd8fb$a96373a0$82810ad0@EmiNet.emi.net> <35F1A75D.D2BC81E4@mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've got my 5 liter eec4 controller running pretty good on my 3.5 olds/rover, but I have a few loose ends to clean up. I would say that it runs as well as the 400 Carter, starts easier, and is probably a lot cleaner. I've not been to the strip yet, I'll have to wait until spring. 1. how does the controller use the VSS information? 2. how is the NDS (neutral drive switch) connect to the controller (from an A/T Crown Vic)? I measure 12 volts on the NDS wire (#30), I'm tempted to ground it (use #46 SIG RET or chassis ground???) but I don't want to lose another controller. I already cooked one and my u pull it yards have no more. I get code 67 and I'd like to make the controller happy, since so little seems to be known about how it works. 3. Is there a way to force the controller into open loop at other than WOT? But maybe I should be happy if I see the ~1 Hz seeking from the O2 sensor, assuming that the controller is dealing with my engine alright. TVR Jon From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 00:38:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA12356 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 00:38:04 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from admin.inetport.com (inetport.com [204.96.100.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA12351 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 00:38:01 -0400 Received: from default (as02-18.inetport.com [204.96.100.146]) by admin.inetport.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA12408 for ; Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:38:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809060438.XAA12408@admin.inetport.com> From: "Zack" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:46:37 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Priority: normal References: In-reply-to: Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ben, How are they less restrictive? If you're talking about flapper door type airflow meters, the ones with the higher total measurement capacity are actually slightly more restrictive due greater tension in the clock spring. And anyway, the answer is no. The internals of the flapper door meters on Japanese cars I know of (Mazda) are specific to the model of car, and may even differ among different models of the same car (i.e., turbo vs. non-turbo), so that the ECU will not be able to properly assess airflow if you plug an AFM which is not matched to the ECU. On Mazda's in particular the first letter and three digits of the AFM part number match the ECU part code. Z > Hi All > > Just wondering - The L-jet, being a common efi system does that mean I > can remove the restrictive air-flow sensor from my subaru and replace it > with a higher flowing nissan or toyota one from a model using L-jet > without confusing the computer at all. Also if my computer were to die, > could I just plug in a computer from a similar L-jet toyota??? > > Regards, > > Ben Marsh > From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 03:40:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA13571 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 03:40:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from suntan.eng.usf.edu (root@suntan.eng.usf.edu [131.247.14.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA13567 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 03:40:10 -0400 Received: from dragon (tampappp157.net.usf.edu [131.247.166.157]) by suntan.eng.usf.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA09905 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 03:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01bdd969$85d0f7a0$010200c0@dragon> From: "Jake Lindeke" To: Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 03:39:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Accually this is not all true, yes there are many cases where the meter can not be swaped, such as the 87-92 supra turbo and 86-92 supra Na but the mr-2 turbo meter will work on the 86-92 supra na or the other way around. also the lexus V8(SE400 for example) meter will work on a 87-92 Supra turbo with 550cc injectors installed as well. so there are many cases where you can swap the meters, but a better way around the ristriction problem is an HKS VPC (vein pressure converter) they come programed for certin cars but can be made to work on other cars the VPC removes the meter completly and takes other info from the engine to 'guess' on what the reading should be there is a small console that is mounted on the dash somewhere and is used to tune the vpc. I run a mr-2 turbo VPC on my non turbo supra. for racing all i have is a valisity stack connected to my trottle body too keep the air flow smooth. really confuses some people to see it like that. also the spring on the meter can be adjusted to have less tension. on toyota meters there is a large gear and a peace of metal hoilding it from turning all you do is hold the metal back and turn the gear, this will add or remove tension as you need. it really effects the proformance of the car. --jake >Ben, > >How are they less restrictive? If you're talking about flapper door >type airflow meters, the ones with the higher total measurement >capacity are actually slightly more restrictive due greater tension >in the clock spring. >And anyway, the answer is no. The internals of the flapper door >meters on Japanese cars I know of (Mazda) are specific to the model >of car, and may even differ among different models of the same car >(i.e., turbo vs. non-turbo), so that the ECU will not be able to >properly assess airflow if you plug an AFM which is not matched to >the ECU. On Mazda's in particular the first letter and three digits >of the AFM part number match the ECU part code. > >Z >> Hi All >> >> Just wondering - The L-jet, being a common efi system does that mean I >> can remove the restrictive air-flow sensor from my subaru and replace it >> with a higher flowing nissan or toyota one from a model using L-jet >> without confusing the computer at all. Also if my computer were to die, >> could I just plug in a computer from a similar L-jet toyota??? >> >> Regards, >> >> Ben Marsh From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 10:40:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15084 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:40:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from admin.inetport.com (inetport.com [204.96.100.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15080 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:40:21 -0400 Received: from default (as01-29.inetport.com [204.96.100.109]) by admin.inetport.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21570 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 09:40:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809061440.JAA21570@admin.inetport.com> From: "Zack" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 09:48:57 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000e01bdd969$85d0f7a0$010200c0@dragon> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > but a better way around the ristriction problem is an HKS > VPC (vein pressure converter) they come programed for certin cars but can be > made to work on other cars Sounds like this VPC is basically a speed-density to air-flow convertor? How much do they typically cost? It seems like if you started with a suitable number of RPM / Manifold pressure / Air flow meter data points, this would be a very productive area for DIY fiddling. > > also the spring on the meter can be adjusted to have less tension. Yeah, I've cracked mine open before and had a look, the problem is I already know that my flow meter is maxing out before I reach peak power, so doing that for now is OK, but ultimately if I start making internal mods to my car's engine I need a better system with more measurement capacity to go along with bigger injectors. Z From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 10:46:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15112 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:46:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.bhm.bellsouth.net (mail.bhm.bellsouth.net [207.203.32.21]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15108 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:46:43 -0400 Received: from qmccombs (host-209-214-106-44.bhm.bellsouth.net [209.214.106.44]) by mail.bhm.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA18246 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:46:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199809061446.KAA18246@mail.bhm.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: quintonm@mail.bhm.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 09:55:32 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Quinton McCombs Subject: FAQ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all. I am new to the list and wanted to know if there was already a FAQ somewhere that I could read. I am interested in monitoring the various sensors on my engine with a long term goal of replacing or modifing the current ECU. I would like to feed the sensor input into a notebook PC. I would imagine that other people on this list have already accomplished this task and I would like to find out how the sensors are interfaced to the PC. From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 11:03:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15312 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:03:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15308 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:03:50 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-32.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.101]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id LAA10947 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003f01bdd9a7$ffe7f780$65198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Misc Questions Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:06:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have any clues about what made the Analog Devices OP-496, so special other than being rail to rail?. How about a clue about what Newark Electronics would carry, that would be rare or so much easier to get than from someone else. Cheers Bruce Doc's holding me hostage till I get some more info on the above, or info that got with held on ION. From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 11:45:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15784 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:45:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15780 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:45:54 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-32.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.101]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id LAA24124 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008601bdd9ad$dfe469e0$65198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:49:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Zack To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, September 06, 1998 11:14 AM Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor > but a better way around the ristriction problem is an HKS > VPC (vein pressure converter) they come programed for certin cars but can be > made to work on other cars Sounds like this VPC is basically a speed-density to air-flow convertor? Yep. How much do they typically cost? $150-$500 It seems like if you started with a suitable number of RPM / Manifold pressure / Air flow meter data points, this would be a very productive area for DIY fiddling. Been done here several times, but noone has shared the results. MAP sensor-RPM input-Air Temp, feed to PIC/Stamp, send to ecm. Keeping it all analog seems thou that the following would be easier. To be totally universal, ecm input would need to be freq/voltage, and range selectable. Cheers Bruce > > also the spring on the meter can be adjusted to have less tension. Yeah, I've cracked mine open before and had a look, the problem is I already know that my flow meter is maxing out before I reach peak power, so doing that for now is OK, but ultimately if I start making internal mods to my car's engine I need a better system with more measurement capacity to go along with bigger injectors. Z From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 11:46:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15794 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:46:55 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15790 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:46:54 -0400 Received: from [158.152.100.96] (helo=oroboros.demon.co.uk) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zFh1g-0005zs-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 15:46:53 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:37:27 +0100 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: Fuel Curves In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In message , Bruce Robertson writes >Hello, > >What would an ideal plot of manifold vacuum versus injected fuel >quantity look like? I am still on the job of tuning my Lucas mechanical >injection - last night I measured the fuel curve and it seems a bit dodgy to >me (although my opinion is not very qualified). At low vac the fuel >delivery is high, and it drops very rapidly (and linearly) until it reaches >about one third of its original quantity, and then it changes slope and >linearly decreases until it gets to max vac. This means that about the first >10% of the total vac increase reduces the fuel quantity by about 66% >and the last 90% of vac reduces it by 33% (the two parts of the graph >are both linear of course because it relies on springs to derive the >curve). Does this seem good/bad/otherwise to anybody who knows? > >Any comments gratefully recieved. > >Regards > >Bruce Robertson >Lucas injected Bond Equipe Sufferer - New Zealand > I had a look at various published fuel curves for MAP systems when I did my original analogue unit. Most show a fairly linear increase in fuel delivered per revolution up to about a MAP of 0.8 bar (or thereabouts) as the MAP rises at WOT towards 1 bar, then the fuel delivery rate increases a bit to get max power out of the engine. Your measured break point seems to be in the wrong place! Does the Lucas mechanical system give a squirt every crank rev? I used to have a Mk2 Bond Equipe with the standard 2 litre engine. It's now a Moss kit-car. -- Chris Morriss From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 11:48:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA15810 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:48:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA15806 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:48:37 -0400 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id IAA08274 for <@deliverator.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 08:47:04 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id LAA13273; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:48:34 -0400 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id LAA27214 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:48:34 -0400 From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9809061148.ZM27212@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 11:48:34 -0400 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: GTA lives again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for everyone's input on getting my GTA back on the road. A refresher: 1989 TransAm GTA 5.7L TPI, MAF, '165 ECM A couple of weeks ago I had retimed it. A few days later it started getting an intermittant miss/cut out on the road. It would happen a few times per day on my trips. I meant to get to it this weekend... Thursday at work the car got worse. It refused to start after a little bit. I had no time, so left it there for a couple of days. Yesterday I went out to diagnose it. Had I had a diacom or scan tool, it would have been trivial, but... anyways, after following a number of tests, I decided that the ECM wasn't getting reference signals from the distributor, so the fuel injectors weren't pulsing. I took the 4-wire connector off of the distributor, cleaned it and pinched down all of the connectors, hooked it back up, and the car runs flawlessly again. Apparently I had disloged the connector ever so slightly, or stretched one of the wires, causing the intermittent no reference pulse symptom. Now as to why the speedometer would jump up, I have no idea... Anyways, it's running great again. I'm sorry to the Michigan guys that I wasn't able to make the M3 event. I was really looking forward to meeting everybody. For the DIY_EFI guys, if someone offers custom chip tuning for a '165 ECM, please contact me offline, as there are some changes that I NEED to make to mine to get rid of my detonation. And if anybody has a set of 24 lb/hour injectors that DO NOT LEAK, I'm also interested. Thanks for "listening" --andrew From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 12:00:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA16238 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:00:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA16213 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 12:00:11 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp27.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.157]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA05873 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:59:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <35F2B192.E38482DA@mwt.net> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 11:00:19 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Misc Questions References: <003f01bdd9a7$ffe7f780$65198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It has a extended temp range and low noise chip . Steve Bruce Plecan wrote: > Does anyone have any clues about what made the Analog Devices > OP-496, so special other than being rail to rail?. > > How about a clue about what Newark Electronics would carry, > that would be rare or so much easier to get than from someone else. > > Cheers > Bruce Doc's holding me hostage till I get some more info > on the above, or info that got with held on ION. From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 21:26:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19122 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:26:28 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from suntan.eng.usf.edu (root@suntan.eng.usf.edu [131.247.14.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19117 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:26:24 -0400 Received: from dragon (tampappp206.net.usf.edu [131.247.167.15]) by suntan.eng.usf.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12984 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006a01bdd9fe$910b4f40$010200c0@dragon> From: "Jake Lindeke" To: Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:26:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Sounds like this VPC is basically a speed-density to air-flow >convertor? > >Yep. > > How much do they typically cost? > >$150-$500 I wish, mine was $720 If you could make one for around that range you should go into busness. and certinley possable. there is a large market for thins kind of thing for japanese proformance cars, not sure about domestics. --jake From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 21:28:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19143 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:28:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from suntan.eng.usf.edu (root@suntan.eng.usf.edu [131.247.14.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19139 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:28:19 -0400 Received: from dragon (tampappp206.net.usf.edu [131.247.167.15]) by suntan.eng.usf.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA13227 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007101bdd9fe$d6404a20$010200c0@dragon> From: "Jake Lindeke" To: Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:28:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu what kind of car is this? and what other modifications have been done? --jake Yeah, I've cracked mine open before and had a look, the problem is I already know that my flow meter is maxing out before I reach peak power, so doing that for now is OK, but ultimately if I start making internal mods to my car's engine I need a better system with more measurement capacity to go along with bigger injectors. Z From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 6 22:32:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20064 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:32:16 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20058 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:32:13 -0400 From: AL8001@aol.com Received: from AL8001@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.1) id 7ZMOa11275 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:31:28 +2000 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d19b205.35f34580@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:31:28 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To those people that have removed the cover from their l jet air flow meter. The "circiut board" seems to have some tuneing resistors. These are spaced along the 1/2 moon wiper resistor and seem to be laser cut to give the air meter the proper output curve. When useing a larger air meter, how about useing a few 10 turn pots to replace the stock fixed tuneing resistors? Something like this: reduce the low flow voltage output to match the stock meter, but allow the voltage to max out when the vane is wide open. Or tune the larger AFM to match the flow = voltage of the smaller AFM then use a extra injector to supply fuel once the computer is maxed out. Re: wide open small AFM = 3/4 open large AFM, extra fuel from spare injector when large AFM is wide open. Also it may be possible to alter a stock AFM so the mixture is leaned or ritchened at various parts of the fuel curve. The most difficult part may be attaching the wires the the board. It seems to be ceramic with film resistors "painted" on. Soldering may not work, drilling and useing small bolts might work it the creamic won't break. A final last ditch effort may be to use small coil springs on a plate to contact the resistors. Reprogramming the ECM would be a whole lot easier if the locations are known. This would be for the weird un known cars. I'd have to sit down and test/graph this stuff to see if it will work, These are just a few ideas that have been floating around. Any thoughts? Harold From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 00:19:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20849 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:19:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from admin.inetport.com (inetport.com [204.96.100.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20845 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:19:42 -0400 Received: from default (as01-36.inetport.com [204.96.100.116]) by admin.inetport.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA18099 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:19:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199809070419.XAA18099@admin.inetport.com> From: "Zack" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:28:21 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor Priority: normal In-reply-to: <007101bdd9fe$d6404a20$010200c0@dragon> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jake, It's a 1987 Mazda RX-7. Only mod's so far are headers, a decent exhaust, and a cone-filter type intake. Z > From: "Jake Lindeke" > To: > Subject: Re: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor > Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:28:06 -0400 > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > what kind of car is this? > and what other modifications have been done? > --jake > > Yeah, I've cracked mine open before and had a look, the problem is I > already know that my flow meter is maxing out before I reach peak > power, so doing that for now is OK, but ultimately if I start making > internal mods to my car's engine I need a better system with more > measurement capacity to go along with bigger injectors. > > Z > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 01:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA21240 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:10:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21235 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:10:21 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm2-099.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.99]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27040 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F36AE1.4C0CE3EA@mcn.net> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 23:10:57 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: FAQ References: <199809061446.KAA18246@mail.bhm.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Quinton McCombs wrote: > > Hello all. > > I am new to the list and wanted to know if there was already a FAQ > somewhere that I could read. I am interested in monitoring the various > sensors on my engine with a long term goal of replacing or modifing the > current ECU. I would like to feed the sensor input into a notebook PC. I > would imagine that other people on this list have already accomplished this > task and I would like to find out how the sensors are interfaced to the PC. Hello, Quinton. Sorry, but this list has no FAQ, although it has been discussed several times, and would certainly be a great help to some of the lurkers/newbies. Generally people just post their questions then wait to see what develops. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 01:36:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA21437 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:36:08 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21433 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:36:04 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du153-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.153]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA20015 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 22:35:58 -0700 Message-Id: <199809070535.WAA20015@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 22:39:31 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: Misc Questions In-Reply-To: <003f01bdd9a7$ffe7f780$65198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I may have missed an earlier post (or just not read it yet), why do you ask? Sandy At 11:06 AM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone have any clues about what made the Analog Devices >OP-496, so special other than being rail to rail?. > >How about a clue about what Newark Electronics would carry, >that would be rare or so much easier to get than from someone else. > >Cheers >Bruce Doc's holding me hostage till I get some more info > on the above, or info that got with held on ION. > From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 01:42:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA21515 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:42:38 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21511 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:42:37 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm2-099.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.99]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03235 for ; Sun, 6 Sep 1998 23:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F37271.DD0F3303@mcn.net> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 23:43:13 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GTA lives again References: <9809061148.ZM27212@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hee hee. Too many times this type of thing happens. Makes working on some cars like open heart surgery. You know, don't touch anything except what you absolutely have to. Glad to hear it's up and running. Shannen Andrew F. Gunnesch wrote: > > Thanks for everyone's input on getting my GTA back on the road. > A refresher: > > 1989 TransAm GTA > 5.7L TPI, MAF, '165 ECM > > A couple of weeks ago I had retimed it. A few days later it started getting > an intermittant miss/cut out on the road. It would happen a few times per > day on my trips. I meant to get to it this weekend... > > Thursday at work the car got worse. It refused to start after a little bit. > I had no time, so left it there for a couple of days. > > Yesterday I went out to diagnose it. Had I had a diacom or scan tool, it > would have been trivial, but... > > anyways, after following a number of tests, I decided that the ECM wasn't > getting reference signals from the distributor, so the fuel injectors > weren't pulsing. I took the 4-wire connector off of the distributor, > cleaned it and pinched down all of the connectors, hooked it back up, and > the car runs flawlessly again. > > Apparently I had disloged the connector ever so slightly, or stretched one > of the wires, causing the intermittent no reference pulse symptom. Now as > to why the speedometer would jump up, I have no idea... > > Anyways, it's running great again. I'm sorry to the Michigan guys that I > wasn't able to make the M3 event. I was really looking forward to meeting > everybody. > > For the DIY_EFI guys, if someone offers custom chip tuning for a '165 ECM, > please contact me offline, as there are some changes that I NEED to make > to mine to get rid of my detonation. > > And if anybody has a set of 24 lb/hour injectors that DO NOT LEAK, I'm also > interested. > > Thanks for "listening" > > --andrew From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 02:00:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA21829 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:00:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from turing.une.edu.au (turing.une.edu.au [129.180.11.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA21821 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:00:46 -0400 Received: (from bmarsh@localhost) by turing.une.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21224; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:07:59 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:07:59 +1000 (EST) From: Benjamin Marsh To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: L-Jetronic Air-flow sensor In-Reply-To: <007101bdd9fe$d6404a20$010200c0@dragon> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The car is a 1987 Subaru RX Turbo MPFI I have been told that it is an L-jetronic system but every web site dedicated to this that has a afm pic it looks nothing like mine - my afm has Fuji cast marks on it. On the filter side it is square in cross section and the engine side it is round with a flap thing on the inside. I don't have the expertise to convert my computer to a MAP type input but think the afm design could be a little better I was also hoping for a round air filter side on the afm so I could attach a ram-pod type air filter and axe the standard filter box Is the Subaru system a L-jet or is it a fuji designed system? Thanks for your help Ben On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Jake Lindeke wrote: > what kind of car is this? > and what other modifications have been done? > --jake > > Yeah, I've cracked mine open before and had a look, the problem is I > already know that my flow meter is maxing out before I reach peak > power, so doing that for now is OK, but ultimately if I start making > internal mods to my car's engine I need a better system with more > measurement capacity to go along with bigger injectors. > > Z > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 09:09:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA24516 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:09:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from axis.jeack.com.au (root@axis.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA24511 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:09:27 -0400 Received: from mainpc ([203.24.125.120]) by axis.jeack.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA16238 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:08:52 GMT Message-ID: <000301bdda60$b9610220$787d18cb@mainpc> From: "Ross Myers" To: "EFI List" Subject: VATS Info Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:52:40 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All, Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his 84 Vette. Any info appreciated. Regards Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 10:05:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24916 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:05:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns2.x-link.ml.org (ns2.x-link.ml.org [163.195.1.237]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24912 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:05:12 -0400 Received: from wcpes.x-link.ml.org (wcpes.x-link.ml.org [163.195.20.11]) by ns2.x-link.ml.org (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA03508 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:05:56 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from georg@REDXCH.WCAPE.GOV.ZA) Received: from REDXCH.WCAPE.GOV.ZA (redxch.wcape.gov.za [164.151.115.34]) by wcpes.x-link.ml.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA04954 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:03:56 +0200 (SAT) Message-Id: <199809071403.QAA04954@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Received: from REDXCH/SpoolDir by REDXCH.WCAPE.GOV.ZA (Mercury 1.43); 7 Sep 98 16:04:18 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by REDXCH (Mercury 1.43); 7 Sep 98 16:03:56 +0200 From: "Georg Lerm" Organization: RED CROSS CHILDRENS HOSPITAL To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:03:46 GMT-2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Bosch Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Does anybody on the list regarding the Bosch Motronic 1.5 system as used in the Opel Kadett. Any help will be appreciated. Georg From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 10:56:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25447 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:56:14 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25443 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:56:09 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm3-130.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.130]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA24267 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F3F42C.BA45A25A@mcn.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 08:56:44 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: VATS Info References: <000301bdda60$b9610220$787d18cb@mainpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There's some stuff in the archives about bypassing vats. I'm curious, what part of an engine swap would make it necessary to bypass VATS? Shannen Ross Myers wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI > motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his > 84 Vette. > > Any info appreciated. > > Regards > > Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 11:04:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25602 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:04:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m4.stny.lrun.com (stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25598 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:04:00 -0400 Received: from m5.stny.lrun.com (m5.stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.20]) by m4.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA26418 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stny.lrun.com (bing400c.stny.lrun.com [204.210.135.2]) by m5.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA01058 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35F3F5DA.9D1A19E0@stny.lrun.com> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 11:03:54 -0400 From: Thomas Matthews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: VATS Info References: <000301bdda60$b9610220$787d18cb@mainpc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Easiest way is to build a 30 Hz circuit and apply it to the vats input terminal (not sure which one is on a Vette though). Otherwise, custom chip time... Don't see why you also couldn't use a 87-8 F-bod chip which doesn't have VATS... I think the 88 Vette uses a '165 ECM... I don't think the f-bod line had it across the board until 89. Only f-bod BIN's I have are 89's with VATS. HTH's Tom Ross Myers wrote: > > Hi All, > > Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI > motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his > 84 Vette. > > Any info appreciated. > > Regards > > Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 11:07:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25664 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:07:06 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vectorbd.com (vectorbd.com [208.20.193.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25660 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:07:04 -0400 Received: from ibm (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA19492 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:10:49 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Jim Lill To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Bosch In-Reply-To: <199809071403.QAA04954@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Georg Lerm wrote: > > Does anybody on the list regarding the Bosch Motronic 1.5 system as > used in the Opel Kadett. > I can't help Georg, but if anyone does have any links to Bosch info, let me know and I'll add them to: http://www.vectorbd.com/peugeot/bosch.html From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 12:02:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA26558 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:02:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m4.stny.lrun.com (stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA26554 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:02:16 -0400 Received: from m5.stny.lrun.com (m5.stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.20]) by m4.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA06590 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:02:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stny.lrun.com (bing400c.stny.lrun.com [204.210.135.2]) by m5.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA16405 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35F40382.D70964F8@stny.lrun.com> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:02:10 -0400 From: Thomas Matthews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b1 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: VATS Info References: <000301bdda60$b9610220$787d18cb@mainpc> <35F3F42C.BA45A25A@mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If you didn't want to cough up $40 for the lock and keys, and GM$ 100 for the module... Tom Shannen Durphey wrote: > > There's some stuff in the archives about bypassing vats. I'm curious, > what part of an engine swap would make it necessary to bypass VATS? > Shannen > > Ross Myers wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI > > motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his > > 84 Vette. > > > > Any info appreciated. > > > > Regards > > > > Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 13:34:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA27240 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:34:12 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from emi.net (emi.net [208.10.128.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA27235 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:34:10 -0400 Received: from EmiNet (max1-14.emi.net [208.10.129.222]) by emi.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA31723 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:31:00 -0400 Message-ID: <003701bdda85$a95b9960$de810ad0@EmiNet.emi.net> From: "Mike Pitts" To: Subject: Tweaker musings Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:33:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2922.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2922.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Whislt browsing the archives I ran across the following from April '98. (Before I joined the list) >>Has anyone seen this Tweaker software... >>if he has any plans of creating a tweaker for GM TBI/TPI?? The very belated answer to this is: I will probably create a version for the '93 CPI engine using an '8625 processor. It may work for other TBI/CPI versions as well. Time will tell. This won't happen for quite awhile though since I've yet to reverse the code. So far I've isolated the tables, but I don't know what the tables represent yet. Ultimately, I would like to create a version that will operate the Intronics EPROM emulator directly. <*sigh*> Such high hopes... so little time.... -Mike ========================================== Mike Pitts Delray Beach, FL mpitts@emi.net http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/mike.htm ========================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 16:22:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28092 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:22:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28088 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:22:21 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm5-166.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.166]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21406 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F4409D.6C045D9@mcn.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 14:22:53 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: VATS Info References: <000301bdda60$b9610220$787d18cb@mainpc> <35F3F42C.BA45A25A@mcn.net> <35F40382.D70964F8@stny.lrun.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gotcha. Dumb question, really. Message said 84 'Vette, I read 89 Vette. Good thing I'm not in encryption! Shannen Thomas Matthews wrote: > > If you didn't want to cough up $40 for the lock and keys, and GM$ 100 > for the module... > Tom > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > There's some stuff in the archives about bypassing vats. I'm curious, > > what part of an engine swap would make it necessary to bypass VATS? > > Shannen > > > > Ross Myers wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI > > > motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his > > > 84 Vette. > > > > > > Any info appreciated. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 16:46:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:46:49 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@ns1.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28339 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:46:47 -0400 Received: from xu300 (tahoe-d40.foothill.net [209.76.43.40]) by ns1.foothill.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA02749 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:46:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "TBK" To: Subject: Re: VATS Info Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:45:03 -0700 Message-ID: <01bddaa0$635e7840$282b4cd1@xu300> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Try C014 (0014 in Eprom) #10 0001 0000 Clear that bit. See if that works. -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 1:39 PM Subject: Re: VATS Info >Gotcha. Dumb question, really. Message said 84 'Vette, I read 89 >Vette. Good thing I'm not in encryption! >Shannen > >Thomas Matthews wrote: >> >> If you didn't want to cough up $40 for the lock and keys, and GM$ 100 >> for the module... >> Tom >> >> Shannen Durphey wrote: >> > >> > There's some stuff in the archives about bypassing vats. I'm curious, >> > what part of an engine swap would make it necessary to bypass VATS? >> > Shannen >> > >> > Ross Myers wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi All, >> > > >> > > Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI >> > > motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his >> > > 84 Vette. >> > > >> > > Any info appreciated. >> > > >> > > Regards >> > > >> > > Ross Myers > From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 16:51:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28427 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:51:35 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28422 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:51:34 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-36.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.54]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id QAA03036 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01bddaa1$ba558ac0$36198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: VATS Info Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:54:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 4:40 PM Subject: Re: VATS Info Send me a copy of the bin, I'll see what I can do Cheers Bruce nacelp@bright.net >Gotcha. Dumb question, really. Message said 84 'Vette, I read 89 >Vette. Good thing I'm not in encryption! >Shannen > >Thomas Matthews wrote: >> >> If you didn't want to cough up $40 for the lock and keys, and GM$ 100 >> for the module... >> Tom >> >> Shannen Durphey wrote: >> > >> > There's some stuff in the archives about bypassing vats. I'm curious, >> > what part of an engine swap would make it necessary to bypass VATS? >> > Shannen >> > >> > Ross Myers wrote: >> > > >> > > Hi All, >> > > >> > > Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI >> > > motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his >> > > 84 Vette. >> > > >> > > Any info appreciated. >> > > >> > > Regards >> > > >> > > Ross Myers > From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 22:02:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA30372 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:02:00 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from zeus.candw.lc (zeus.candw.lc [206.48.60.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA30363 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:01:36 -0400 Received: from [206.48.60.158] by zeus.candw.lc (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.adzz) with ESMTP id ja179799 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:58:55 -0300 Message-ID: <35F30DC6.590F9ACF@candw.lc> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 18:33:43 -0400 From: Martin Powlette Organization: Auto Service & Repairs Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Code 42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It me again and my luck with TBI 5.7 V8's . I checked the ignition timing and set it to O TDC by specs, but there is code 42, ignition wiring or faulty ign.module. If I clear the code it comes back as soon as you start up and idle for even two minutes. What do you guys think ?? The pick up coil 9K, leads,cap and rotor are ok One other thing it stalls right after hard braking or sudden slow down especially down hill. Can I adjust the idle speed off the tamper proof plug?? Any quick tests. What about the ign. coil?? Martin From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 22:39:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA30711 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:39:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from axis.jeack.com.au (root@axis.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA30707 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:39:36 -0400 Received: from mainpc (d92.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.163]) by axis.jeack.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13168 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:39:32 GMT Message-ID: <003001bddad1$a24087c0$a37d18cb@mainpc> From: "Ross Myers" To: Subject: Re: VATS Info Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:37:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Try C014 (0014 in Eprom) #10 >0001 0000 > Clear that bit. See if that works. The value at Hex 14 is B4??? Regards Ross From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 22:40:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA30732 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:40:25 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from axis.jeack.com.au (root@axis.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA30727 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:40:23 -0400 Received: from mainpc (d92.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.163]) by axis.jeack.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13245 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:40:20 GMT Message-ID: <003501bddad1$bf73cfa0$a37d18cb@mainpc> From: "Ross Myers" To: Subject: Re: VATS Info Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:38:21 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Easiest way is to build a 30 Hz circuit and apply it to the vats input >terminal (not sure which one is on a Vette though). Otherwise, custom >chip time... Don't see why you also couldn't use a 87-8 F-bod chip which >doesn't have VATS... I think the 88 Vette uses a '165 ECM... I don't >think the f-bod line had it across the board until 89. Only f-bod BIN's >I have are 89's with VATS. >HTH's >Tom I'd much rather do it in the PROM. Regards Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 7 23:23:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA31349 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:23:22 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@ns1.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA31345 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:23:21 -0400 Received: from xu300 (tahoe-d48.foothill.net [209.76.43.48]) by ns1.foothill.net (8.9.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA18887 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:23:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "TBK" To: Subject: Re: VATS Info Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:21:38 -0700 Message-ID: <01bddad7$caacfbc0$302b4cd1@xu300> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu yeh, so try changing it to A4! TK -----Original Message----- From: Ross Myers To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, September 07, 1998 8:06 PM Subject: Re: VATS Info > > >>Try C014 (0014 in Eprom) #10 >>0001 0000 >> Clear that bit. See if that works. > >The value at Hex 14 is B4??? > >Regards > >Ross > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 00:18:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31845 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:18:32 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from emi.net (emi.net [208.10.128.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31841 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:18:31 -0400 Received: from EmiNet (max1-2.emi.net [208.10.129.210]) by emi.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA27494 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:15:15 -0400 Message-ID: <003601bddadf$a8669820$d2810ad0@EmiNet.emi.net> From: "Mike Pitts" To: Subject: Calling all gurus Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:17:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0033_01BDDABE.207C4B60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2922.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2922.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BDDABE.207C4B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I'm to a point where I could use a wee bit of help. First of all,=20 my mathmatical skills are weak, especially when it comes=20 to coefficients and lag filters. (I never took calc). Anyway,=20 I have a routine that I think is a lag filter, but it's different enough = from the '7148 code that I'm not sure. At a minumum, it's doing=20 a bit more than the '7148 version. If anyone would care to explain the theory of lag filters/coefficients=20 to me, as well as tell me what the following routine does, I'd be=20 MUCH obliged. BTW: I'll bet this same routine is in 90% of the=20 modern P4 ECUs. You'll need a monospaced font for this ;********************************************************** ;* ;* Lag Filter Subroutine?? ;* ;* Input example: ;* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ;* LDAA $00A0 - Sometimes an A/D value ;* LDAB #$80 - Coefficient? ;* LDX $0315 - The 16-bit storage of the filtered value? ;* LDY #$5925- ??? ;* ;* Result: ;* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ;* 16-bit word in Accumulator D ;* ;********************************************************** F047 3C PSHX ; Store X F048 30 TSX ; X =3D (SP) + 1 F049 A3 00 SUBD $00,x ; D =3D D - X[0] F04B 37 PSHB ; store B F04C E6 00 25 LDAB $00,y ; B =3D Y[0] F04F 25 03 BLO $F054 ; if D < 0 goto $F054 F051 3D MUL ; D =3D A * B F052 20 04 BRA $F058 ; goto $F058 F054 3D MUL ; D =3D A * B F055 A0 00 E3 SUBA $00,y ; A =3D A - Y[0] F058 E3 00 ADDD $00,x ; D =3D D + X[0] F05A ED 00 STD $00,x ; X[0] =3D D F05C 32 PULA ; get A from stack (was B) F05D E6 00 3D LDAB $00,y ; B =3D Y[0] F060 3D MUL ; D =3D A * B F061 A9 01 ADCA $01,x ; A =3D A + X[1] + carry F063 16 TAB ; B =3D A F064 A6 00 LDAA $00,x ; A =3D X[0] F066 89 00 ADCA #$00 ; A =3D A + carry F068 38 PULX ; restore X F069 39 RTS ; return Thanks!! -Mike =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mike Pitts Delray Beach, FL mpitts@emi.net http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/mike.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BDDABE.207C4B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Hi all,
 
I'm to a point where I could use a wee bit of help.  First of = all,=20
my mathmatical skills are weak, especially when it comes
to coefficients and lag filters.  (I never took calc).  = Anyway,=20
I have a routine that I think is a lag filter, but it's different = enough=20
from the '7148 code that I'm not sure.  At a minumum, it's = doing=20
a bit more than the '7148 version.
 
If anyone would care to explain the theory of lag = filters/coefficients=20
to me, as well as tell me what the following routine does, I'd be =
MUCH obliged.  BTW: I'll bet this same routine is in 90% of = the
modern P4 ECUs.
 
You'll need a monospaced font for this
 
;*********************************************************= *
;*
;*=20 Lag Filter Subroutine??
;*
;* Input example:
;* = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
;*=20 LDAA $00A0 - Sometimes an A/D value
;* LDAB #$80  - = Coefficient?
;*=20 LDX  $0315 - The 16-bit storage of the filtered value?
;* = LDY =20 #$5925- ???
;*
;* Result:
;* = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
;* 16-bit word in=20 Accumulator=20 D
;*
;**********************************************************
 
F047   =20 3C         =20 PSHX           &nb= sp;   =20 ; Store X
F048   =20 30         =20 TSX           &nbs= p;    =20 ; X =3D (SP) + 1
F049    A3=20 00      =20 SUBD        $00,x   ; D =3D = D -=20 X[0]
F04B   =20 37         =20 PSHB           &nb= sp;   =20 ; store B
F04C    E6 00 25   =20 LDAB        $00,y   ; B =3D = Y[0]
F04F    25 03       = BLO         $F054   ; = if D=20 < 0 goto $F054
 
F051   =20 3D         =20 MUL           &nbs= p;    =20 ; D =3D A * B
F052    20 = 04      =20 BRA         $F058   ; = goto=20 $F058
 
F054   =20 3D         =20 MUL           &nbs= p;    =20 ; D =3D A * B
F055    A0 00 E3   =20 SUBA        $00,y   ; A =3D = A -=20 Y[0]
 
F058    E3=20 00      =20 ADDD        $00,x   ; D =3D = D +=20 X[0]
F05A    ED 00       = STD         $00,x   ; = X[0] =3D=20 D
F05C   =20 32         =20 PULA           &nb= sp;   =20 ; get A from stack (was B)
F05D    E6 00 = 3D   =20 LDAB        $00,y   ; B =3D = Y[0]
F060   =20 3D         =20 MUL           &nbs= p;    =20 ; D =3D A * B
F061    A9 = 01      =20 ADCA        $01,x   ; A =3D = A + X[1]=20 + carry
F063   =20 16         =20 TAB           &nbs= p;    =20 ; B =3D A
F064    A6 = 00      =20 LDAA        $00,x   ; A =3D = X[0]
F066    89 00       = ADCA        #$00    ; = A =3D A +=20 carry
F068   =20 38         =20 PULX           &nb= sp;   =20 ; restore X
F069   =20 39         =20 RTS           &nbs= p;    =20 ; return
 
Thanks!!
-Mike
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mik= e Pitts
Delray=20 Beach, FL
mpitts@emi.net
http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/m= ike.htm
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
------=_NextPart_000_0033_01BDDABE.207C4B60-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 00:19:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31868 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:19:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31864 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:19:42 -0400 Received: from mcn.net (pm5-175.billings.mcn.net [208.25.39.175]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA16218 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <35F4B07A.C4B11C72@mcn.net> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:20:10 -0600 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Code 42 References: <35F30DC6.590F9ACF@candw.lc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Martin Powlette wrote: > > It me again and my luck with TBI 5.7 V8's . I checked the ignition > timing and set it to O TDC by specs, but there is code 42, ignition > wiring or faulty ign.module. If I clear the code it comes back as soon > as you start up and idle for even two minutes. What do you guys think > ?? The pick up coil 9K, leads,cap and rotor are ok One other thing it > stalls right after hard braking or sudden slow down especially down > hill. Can I adjust the idle speed off the tamper proof plug?? > Any quick tests. What about the ign. coil?? > > Martin This code *always* sets when you disconnect the 5V bypass (tan/blk) connector to set the timing. With it disconnected, the ecm has no way to adjust timing from base. Check it out. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 01:17:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA32520 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:17:53 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [207.201.33.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA32516 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:17:51 -0400 Received: from default (ttyD1e.redding.snowcrest.net [209.148.36.31]) by snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA26291 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980907221719.00a7f630@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 22:17:19 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: VATS Info In-Reply-To: <35F3F42C.BA45A25A@mcn.net> References: <000301bdda60$b9610220$787d18cb@mainpc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Ross Address is 0014 95h enable 85h disable, also change 0008 to AAh to bypass checksum. GL Vance At 08:56 AM 9/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >There's some stuff in the archives about bypassing vats. I'm curious, >what part of an engine swap would make it necessary to bypass VATS? >Shannen > >Ross Myers wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 TPI >> motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap on his >> 84 Vette. >> >> Any info appreciated. >> >> Regards >> >> Ross Myers > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 04:22:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA00861 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:22:33 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rtmol.stt.it (mail.rtmol.it [193.70.50.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA00856 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:22:28 -0400 From: fpalumbo@rtmol.it Received: from default (ppp-16.rtmol.stt.it [193.70.50.46]) by rtmol.stt.it (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA07673 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:22:20 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980908004046.007062f8@mail.rtmol.it> X-Sender: fpalumbo@mail.rtmol.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 00:40:46 +0200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Bosch In-Reply-To: <199809071403.QAA04954@wcpes.x-link.ml.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 16.03 07/09/98 GMT-2, you wrote: >Hi > >Does anybody on the list regarding the Bosch Motronic 1.5 system as >used in the Opel Kadett. > >Any help will be appreciated. > >Georg > Hi George, Please give me the BOSCH CODE written on the ECU, I will find it on my database. Bye. Fabrizio Palumbo EFI Technologies http://www.axa.it/ame E-Mail : mailto://ame@axa.it From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 06:46:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA01772 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:46:58 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from zeus.candw.lc (zeus.candw.lc [206.48.60.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA01768 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:46:56 -0400 Received: from [206.48.60.225] by zeus.candw.lc (NTMail 3.03.0017/4c.adzz) with ESMTP id da179949 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:44:57 -0300 Message-ID: <35F32D92.314AB5A2@candw.lc> Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 20:49:24 -0400 From: Martin Powlette Organization: Auto Service & Repairs Ltd. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Code 42 References: <35F30DC6.590F9ACF@candw.lc> <35F4B07A.C4B11C72@mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes, but I have reconnected that wire and cleared the code but it comes right back after start up. Also the ign. coil's core is loose on the laminated iron ring around it. What effect would that have?? Shannen Durphey wrote: > Martin Powlette wrote: > > > > It me again and my luck with TBI 5.7 V8's . I checked the ignition > > timing and set it to O TDC by specs, but there is code 42, ignition > > wiring or faulty ign.module. If I clear the code it comes back as soon > > as you start up and idle for even two minutes. What do you guys think > > ?? The pick up coil 9K, leads,cap and rotor are ok One other thing it > > stalls right after hard braking or sudden slow down especially down > > hill. Can I adjust the idle speed off the tamper proof plug?? > > Any quick tests. What about the ign. coil?? > > > > Martin > > This code *always* sets when you disconnect the 5V bypass (tan/blk) > connector to set the timing. With it disconnected, the ecm has no way > to adjust timing from base. > Check it out. > Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 09:21:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02611 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:21:07 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02607 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:21:04 -0400 Received: from bert (bert [131.204.46.47]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16735 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:21:01 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:21:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" X-Sender: gparmer@bert To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: FAQ In-Reply-To: <199809061446.KAA18246@mail.bhm.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Quinton McCombs wrote: > I am new to the list and wanted to know if there was already a FAQ > somewhere that I could read. I am interested in monitoring the various The info you're looking for may be in the archives, which are searchable from the website. I started putting together a FAQ for donation to the site, but it aint finished and may never be. If someone else wants to run with the ball or just check out what I've collected, see http://www.acesag.auburn.edu/~gparmer/efi/myfaq.htm later, -greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 09:23:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA02635 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:23:51 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA02629 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:23:49 -0400 Received: from 205.215.232.37 (surf37.cruzers.com [205.215.232.37]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA15022 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F53DE3.3514@cruzers.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 06:24:04 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: Calling all gurus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu "Mike Pitts" wrote: > as well as tell me what the following routine does > > F047 3C PSHX ; Store X > F048 30 TSX ; X =3D (SP) + 1 > F049 A3 00 SUBD $00,x ; D =3D D - X[0] > F04B 37 PSHB ; store B > F04C E6 00 25 LDAB $00,y ; B =3D Y[0] > F04F 25 03 BLO $F054 ; if D < 0 goto $F054 > F051 3D MUL ; D =3D A * B > F052 20 04 BRA $F058 ; goto $F058 > F054 3D MUL ; D =3D A * B > F055 A0 00 E3 SUBA $00,y ; A =3D A - Y[0] > F058 E3 00 ADDD $00,x ; D =3D D + X[0] > F05A ED 00 STD $00,x ; X[0] =3D D > F05C 32 PULA ; get A from stack (was B) > F05D E6 00 3D LDAB $00,y ; B =3D Y[0] > F060 3D MUL ; D =3D A * B > F061 A9 01 ADCA $01,x ; A =3D A + X[1] + carry > F063 16 TAB ; B =3D A > F064 A6 00 LDAA $00,x ; A =3D X[0] > F066 89 00 ADCA #$00 ; A =3D A + carry > F068 38 PULX ; restore X > F069 39 RTS ; return typedef /*compiler dependent type goes here*/ int16; typedef /*compiler dependent type goes here*/ int32; typedef unsigned int16 uint16; uint16 Blend(uint16 numD, uint16 numX, unsigned char *ratio) { unsigned int32 temp, portionD, portionX; portionD = *ratio; portionX = 256 - *ratio; temp = (numD * portionD) + (numX * portionX); return ((temp + 128) >> 8); } Yes, really! Now lets do a blow by blow analysis: First, put the contents of X on the stack where it can be accessed easier. The address of where it is on the stack is placed into X so that $00,x can be used to access the value. PSHX TSX Now compute the difference between the X and D inputs. Save the low order byte on the stack for later. Working on the difference means that only one 8x16 multiply will be needed. SUBD $00,x PSHB If D >= X, in other words, if the difference is positive, multiply the upper byte of the difference (in A) by the blend ratio. Afterwards, the value in D is aligned with bits 2^23 through 2^8 of the full 24 product (of the difference and the blend ratio.) LDAB $00,y BLO @0 MUL BRA @1 If D < X, multiply the upper byte of the difference by the blend ratio. The subtract fixes the result of the unsigned multiply instruction to account for the signed (negative) operand. (Essentially, 256 is added to A to make it positive, the multiply is performed on unsigned/positive operands, and then 256 times the multiplier (old B) is subtracted to arrive at the proper value.) @0 MUL SUBA $00,y Sum the portion of the difference into the original X input. This effectively is doing a preemptive >>8 of the (yet) unfinished product calculation. If the original D >= X, then the value on the stack is increased most of the way towards the final function result. If the original D < X, then the value on the stack is decreased to beyond the final result - the final stage will increase it back up as needed. @1 ADDD $00,x STD $00,x Now multiply the (saved) lower byte of the difference by the ratio. This generates a result that needs to be added to bits 2^15 through 2^0 of the full 24 bit product. Because this product will be >>8, only the result in A is fully needed. The low result byte in B will be used just for rounding. The 68HC11 will conveniently place this rounding info into the C flag. PULA LDAB $00,y MUL Sum the rest of the product into the X number. Rounding is rippled up through the upper byte. ADCA $01,x TAB LDAA $00,x ADCA #$00 Clear off the intermediate value stored on the stack, and return to the caller. Even though this looks like a restore of X, it isn't because that stack location has been modified. So, the function result is in D, X has been trashed, Y has not been modified. PULX RTS This function is likely used by loading a new 16 bit value into D, the old filter contents into X, pointing Y at the blend ratio, invoking the function, and then storing D into the filter. A blend ratio number of 0 means that the "new" value is ignored, the filter value is never changed. A blend ratio of 128 moves the filter half way towards the "new" value. When filtering 8 bit numbers, it can be useful to make the filter have 8 fractional bits. In that case, put the 8 bit value into A, zero out B (or set it to 128 aka half), and then use the upper byte of the filter value as the "output". BTW, there are several ways to write this function. The optimal implementation depends a lot on the target processor, desired rounding, and so on. The 'HC11 is not an easy architecture for this function. GM probably "paid" $1000 to $2000 for this one function. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 10:13:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03092 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:13:15 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ocfexch2.ocf (ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov [146.137.76.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03088 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:13:12 -0400 Received: by ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:16:10 -0500 Message-ID: <8B0E1273DCFFD111B35F0060083A34961E1D1C@ocfexch2.ocf.anl.gov> From: "Kurek, Larry" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: VATS Info Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:16:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Get a no-VATS chip burned by just about any programmer, or you can make a 555 circuit that sends the correct freqency to the ECM.... TTYL! Larry > -----Original Message----- > From: Ross Myers [SMTP:ponty@axis.jeack.com.au] > Sent: Monday, September 07, 1998 7:53 AM > To: EFI List > Subject: VATS Info > > Hi All, > > Does anybody have any Bin's or Info on how to bypass the VATS on an 88 > TPI > motor. It all comes about after a customer at work did an engine swap > on his > 84 Vette. > > Any info appreciated. > > Regards > > Ross Myers > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 10:16:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03177 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:16:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgate.mccain.ca (mailgate.mccain.ca [198.164.100.102]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03168 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:16:27 -0400 Received: by mffvlexc1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:19:43 -0300 Message-ID: From: "BUTLER, Tom" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle b ody Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:19:41 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ted!! Any chance you could forward that article to others (ME!!!) who might be able to make use of it?? Tom Butler > -----Original Message----- > From: Stowe, Ted-SEA [SMTP:StowT@PerkinsCoie.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 5:54 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle > body > > > howdy. I was recently forwarded a good article on putting a L-jetronic > from > a renault fuego into a mgb From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 10:24:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03422 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:24:39 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca (indyweb.cgocable.ca [205.151.69.200]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03417 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:24:38 -0400 Received: from cgocable.ca (alaint@66-107.dr.cgocable.ca [205.151.66.107]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA21672 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:23:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35F53D9D.42C2B4DA@cgocable.ca> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 10:22:21 -0400 From: Alain Toussaint X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i486) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil References: <199809051623.MAA06797@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <9809051013.ZM6944@wiredev.asu.edu> <35F177AF.E2C89B0B@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu here,it's 31.95$ for a 6 pack of mobil 1 (1 quart each),CDN cash,for USD,it's around 20$ (1.50$ CDN cash for each US 1$ currently). Alain From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 10:31:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03615 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:31:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03610 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:31:17 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-166.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.166]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id HAA28522 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F540C7.36AA@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 07:35:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle b ody References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm also interested - Perhaps you could post it to the list so it makes it into the archives? TIA, Jack BUTLER, Tom wrote: > Ted!! > Any chance you could forward that article to others (ME!!!) who > might be able to make use of it?? > > howdy. I was recently forwarded a good article on putting a L-jetronic > > from > > a renault fuego into a mgb From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 10:31:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03626 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:31:29 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03622 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:31:28 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-17.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.35]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.0.Beta3/8.9.0.FNG_Build) with SMTP id KAA10335 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001901bddb35$cd99cbc0$23198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: FAQ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:34:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Gregory A. Parmer To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 10:09 AM Subject: Re: FAQ Even if you don't have anything to ask, it's worth reading. Just my 02 cents worth Cheers Bruce > http://www.acesag.auburn.edu/~gparmer/efi/myfaq.htm > >later, >-greg > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 12:06:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05355 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:06:34 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05349 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:06:32 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id JAA12903 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seamail.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 8 Sep 1998 16:06:15 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <7F57DC2D45ADD11196B700A0C99B563259DAEE@seamail.perkinscoie.com> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle b ody Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:05:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu sure. you wouldn't know of any especially great throttle bodies for that project ? the one in the article was from a ford tempo. unknown year -----Original Message----- From: BUTLER, Tom [mailto:TEBUTLER@mccain.ca] Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 7:20 AM To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Subject: RE: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle b ody Ted!! Any chance you could forward that article to others (ME!!!) who might be able to make use of it?? Tom Butler > -----Original Message----- > From: Stowe, Ted-SEA [SMTP:StowT@PerkinsCoie.com] > Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 5:54 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: L-Jetronic or LH-Jetronic for 77 mgb ? & ford tempo throtle > body > > > howdy. I was recently forwarded a good article on putting a L-jetronic > from > a renault fuego into a mgb From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 13:06:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06101 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:06:13 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06097 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:06:09 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-187.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.187]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id KAA22348 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <35F560E5.39A2@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 09:52:53 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: FAQ References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Greg. Good stuff. Regards, Jack From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 13:46:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06698 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:46:24 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu [128.146.90.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06692 for ; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:46:13 -0400 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from webserver by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (980427.SGI.8.8.8/940406.SGI) for id NAA18816; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Stinkpad.xephic (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAC00120; Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:46:12 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:46:12 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199809081746.NAC00120@webserver> Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980908134840.007b0760@xephic.dynip.com> X-Sender: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:48:40 -0400 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu, homebrew-autos@xephic.dynip.com From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Alain Toussant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu My apologies to the list... Alain, your email address appears to be invalid :( Email me, I have a question for ya. Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ Wanted - RWD Buick Flywheel that fits the 3.8L / 4.1L! - From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 8 15:27:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08021 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:27:44 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA08017; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:27:41 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id OAA05540; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:27:40 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (3.2) id xma005512; Tue, 8 Sep 98 14:27:14 -0500 Received: from aussun31.NIS.austin by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA14785; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:25:31 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun31.NIS.austin (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01862; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:27:14 -0500 Message-ID: <35F58512.93A46D16@arm.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:27:14 -0500 From: Steve Ravet Organization: ARM, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi , efi_332 Subject: Test, and I'm back. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, it's been an interesting several weeks. My former employer went from normal