From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 04:27:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19329 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:27:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.17.224.215]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA19325 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:27:09 -0500 Received: (qmail 24678 invoked from network); 1 Nov 1998 09:27:00 -0000 Received: from modem55-tar-isp-1.one.net.au (HELO holden) (203.101.3.119) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 1 Nov 1998 09:27:00 -0000 Message-ID: <000101bdffbd$ea7240e0$770365cb@holden> From: "Geoff & Sue Richards" To: "Diy_Efi" Subject: where to find info Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:17:27 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Could someone be able to tell me of any books or web sites that can explain the workings of a prom? I have searched the archives in vain,any references to proms are for those that already know how these work I would like to understand addresses and maps etc TIA Geoff From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 04:35:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA19370 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:35:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.17.224.215]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA19366 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:35:08 -0500 Received: (qmail 28262 invoked from network); 1 Nov 1998 09:35:02 -0000 Received: from modem55-tar-isp-1.one.net.au (HELO holden) (203.101.3.119) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 1 Nov 1998 09:35:02 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01bdffbf$082f5cc0$770365cb@holden> From: "Geoff & Sue Richards" To: "Diy_Efi" Subject: ftp Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 13:27:14 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is this the correct address for the ftp site? ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/pub/efi332/ Cheers GEoff From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 06:10:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20564 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 06:10:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA20555 for diy_efi; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 06:10:01 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 06:10:01 -0500 From: John S Gwynne Message-Id: <199811011110.GAA20555@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. To post: Send to "[list name]@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 07:10:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA21327 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:10:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21323 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:10:16 -0500 Received: from pii500 ([12.79.11.212]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP id <19981101121005.GKBT8489@pii500> for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:10:05 +0000 Message-ID: <363C4FB9.34E0@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 07:10:33 -0500 From: "ron.boley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: where to find info References: <000101bdffbd$ea7240e0$770365cb@holden> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Geoff, You need to look at some of the semiconductor sites. Intel, AMD, National Semiconductor and more. The generic term implies a non-volitile memory device (doesn't loose it memory when the power is removed). Early versions 70' and '80s were based on UV-Erasable technology (Ultaviolet light they have quartz windows in them) others were EEPROM (Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory). Flash memory came out in the early '90's which has generally replaced the older EPROM and EEPROM is most devices. The beauty of Flash and older EEPROM is that it could be erased and reprogrammed while in a device where as EPROM usually required removal. Todays FLash devices (Intel and AMD) have multiple sections where you can both store code and variables, as well as keep the latest change data on the product. AN example on an ECC might be run the car and collect OBD-II data. In many cases engineers may combine Flash memory with a smaller EEPROM. The flash holds the program while the EEPROM holds the every day data (OBD-II). I hope this gets you started. Ron Boley Geoff & Sue Richards wrote: > > Could someone be able to tell me of any books or web sites that can explain > the workings of a prom? > I have searched the archives in vain,any references to proms are for those > that already know how these work > I would like to understand addresses and maps etc > TIA > Geoff From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 10:41:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22294 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:41:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22290 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:41:37 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA28257 for mail_from ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 08:28:48 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 08:28:48 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Oxygen sensor and high speed stumble UPDATE Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >But from the below convertsation the question I have is...what affect does the >capability of doing the block learn tables over driving time have o >this...seems >that the BLC would correct for any built in errors due to the changes....? >rite? rong? GENE Hi Gene-- First, let me say that my assumption in writing the stuff below was that the mfgrs would program their ecu's in a manner which would maximize mileage and minimize emissions, so as to do the best job possible of conforming to their CAFE and EPA restraints, no matter how foolish some of those restraints might be. Perhaps this is a faulty assumption, but I would be very surprised if it is--mostly because mfgr sales and profits depend very heavily on meeting those rules! Second, I will admit freely to the fact that I am groping for an answer about the BLC's--I know about enough about them to be dangerous. My perception of the BLC stuff is that it provides enough "self-learned" variability in the ecu's tuning tables so that the ecu can compensate for things like changes in leak-down rate as the mileage on an engine adds up and natural variations in flow, crank indexing, cam timing and lobe variation, compression, etc., between (non-blueprinted) production engines in a given series. I THINK that the variability provided by the BLC stuff extends over much too limited a range for it to be able to compensate for such a drastic variation in conditions as turning off the EGR. I think that you get a trouble code posted when something takes the BLC's to their outer limits, unless a chip twiddler has turned that feature off. Third, I believe that it would be fair to assume that the mfgrs did not provide the BLC stuff out of the goodness of their hearts or to help out the occasional hot-rodder. Far more likely, it was determined that is was cheaper to provide them than it was to tighten up engine production tolerances, or to build enough durability into their (also now required to be built at a higher level of precision) engines to meet the (EPA required) extended emission warranties without any need for manual tuning adjustments! The automatic tuning adjustments provided by the BLC's is OK per the terms of the EPA rules on the warranty, I do not believe that any other approach would be. 'Twould be fascinating to hear the level of mfgr squalling (and see the hardware) that would result if the CAFE regs were changed to require a warranty of the required fuel mileage over an extended period!!! Too bad that bureaucrats' hunger for power is never matched by greater quantities of wisdom or intelligence!!--Could it be that an increase in the latter two qualities will always cause the first thing to grow smaller???!! (One could point to Hitler as an example of one extreme, and Einstein as an example of the opposite extreme!!) (Never could understand why so many people are convinced that I have a very dirty, sarcastic mind!!) Regards, Greg > >Greg Hermann wrote: >> >> Hi-- >> >> Good accurate info, in general. >> >> >The knock you are detecting at part throttle with the aftermarket chip is >> >from lack of EGR... Guaranteed that the chip people only removed the EGR >> >and didn't fix the EGR timing and fuel tables to make it run right without >> >the EGR... >> >> Yep. >> >> GM adds timing and leans the fuel during EGR so there is no loss >> >of power from the EGR. >> >> As to this one, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you can buy!! >> >> Yes, they lean it so that CO and HC do not go up, on account of less total >> air, and yes, they advance it so that they get back some of the response >> and mileage screwed up by EGR (mixture diluents are a knock resister, so >> they CAN get away with more advance when EGR is on), but NO WAY you do not >> lose power at equal MAP levels with EGR on vs. off!! >> >> Take away the EGR, and now the timing is way too >> >high, and the fuel is too lean because the part of the combustion air that >> >was recirculated exhaust is now air and it needs fuel. >> >> Yep. >> >> >This is why a lot of chip makers charge a fortune hoping no one knows what >> >the tables contain... it shows they have no clue as to what they are doing. >> >> What?!?--people involved in the automotive aftermarket who would screw >> their customers?? Where on earth did they learn such tricks--working for >> auto manufacturers before they went into making aftermarket stuff??!?? >> >> Regards, Greg > >-- > > > ____________ >Fun under the sun in //~~~~~~~~~~~~\\ >Jacksonville, Fl. :-))) //______________\\ > /~~~---~ | | ~---~~~\ > /| /______\____/______\ |\ > (( | / | | \ | )) > Mako 'Vettes | \============================/ | > Shift better with |\ \\[ ] |mrvette| [ ]// /| > Automatics | \/+========================+\/ | > |~==============================~| > |_____| |_____| > > MESS NOT IN THE AFFAIRS OF SHARKS > FOR THOU ART CRUNCHY, AND GOOD WITH CATSUP >------------------------------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 10:41:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22288 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:41:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22284 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:41:28 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-8.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.77]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA29741 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:41:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005001be05ae$8be45d00$4d198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Oxygen sensor and high speed stumble UPDATE Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:44:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Scot Sealander To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 11:43 PM Subject: Re: Oxygen sensor and high speed stumble UPDATE >David A. Cooley wrote: > >> The knock you are detecting at part throttle with the aftermarket >>chip is from lack of EGR... >>That could be true. But maybe the 'part throttle' changes that the >>chip maker claims to have made include more advance. >> Guaranteed that the chip people only removed the EGR >> and didn't fix the EGR timing and fuel tables to make it run right >>without the EGR... >Not a very good gaurantee. This statement I doubt is true. Just >because of the algorithm used in the code. Is this to say you have read all the algorithms, and understand them all?. Since noone here has seen the code, that may be in as much of an error as anyone's guess fo far. > >> GM adds timing and leans the fuel during EGR so there is no >>loss of power from the EGR. > >It can stand more timing with EGR, assuming you are not knock >limited. Just less power lost. The fuel is not really 'leaned'. Then what does Block Learn reference to?. > The 14.7 to one (stoich) is still met for the air that is in the cylinder. If the above statement is meant to be applied to 3 way cat converter equipped cars, then it is wrong. They have to hunt between two ratios for them to work. > The job of the ECM is to measure (or calculate) the amount of air >in the cylinder, then add the required amount of fuel at the desired >AFR. The measured amount of air in the cylinder does not include the EGR. > > >> Take away the EGR, and now the timing is way too >> high, and the fuel is too lean because the part of the combustion >>air that was recirculated exhaust is now air and it needs fuel. > >This is only true (in this case) if your assumptions on how things are >done are accurate, but they aren't. The main table may have too >much timing on purpose, or maybe it has been added. One would >have to see the file to know. > > >> This is why a lot of chip makers charge a fortune hoping no one knows what >> the tables contain... > >Possibly. After figuring this particular code out, I bought a used aftermarket >chip for this app. I'm sure that they have to sell that one as "off-road" >only. The "part throttle" changes do not meet emission specs, and the WOT >changes may actually result in lower gas mileage. I haven't actually >tried it to see. > > >> it shows they have no clue as to what they are doing. > >Not unusual. But do YOU know what the chip does? It is easy to call them >incompetent. You have made some assumptions that just aren't true. I think your carring things too the nenth degree. Does one need to know the exact chemical process that an egg goes thru to be cooked and taste good??, NO. Knowing how much fuel needs to be where, and the right amount of timing are what matters. > >Scot Sealander Sealand@clarityconnect.com > > >> If you want a chip that will make the car run better, try a reputable name >> like Z Industries... Ron Zimmer has friends in the automotive manufacturer >> industry that supply info and his chips are actual dyno tested units... > >I trust this kind the least! I trust people who reverse the code, forcing >them to understand how things get accomplished. Having a "friend" means >that you really don't understand what the code does. Would WOT dyno testing >find the part throttle ping? Can also be said that I've seen several of the really good guys make a booboo, in what they saw. What counts is what's in the car. If you want to reverse engineer it fine, if you want to pic it apart fine. But, the only true test is when you use it in a car. Bruce > From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 12:26:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23462 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:26:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23458 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:26:27 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA22566 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:26:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:26:30 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B4B@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: where to find info Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:26:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If I could elaborate a bit here. PROM is actually (P)rogrammable (R)ead (O)nly (M)emory and refers as is described below to a non-volatile memory. However, it was based on tiny fuses which were (1)s if you left them alone and (0)s if you blew them (you could also get reverse logic proms). The prom was laid out in a matrix of addresses of a specific word length. To program them you specified an address and the "value" or the word. Every bit which was a 1, the programmer would blow the fuse. These were very cheap compared to EPROMS but were definitely one shot devices. Programming changes required new PROM chips. Hope that helps. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: ron.boley [SMTP:ron.boley@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 1998 7:11 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: where to find info > > Geoff, > > You need to look at some of the semiconductor sites. Intel, AMD, > National Semiconductor and more. The generic term implies a > non-volitile memory device (doesn't loose it memory when the power is > removed). Early versions 70' and '80s were based on UV-Erasable > technology (Ultaviolet light they have quartz windows in them) others > were EEPROM (Electronically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory). > Flash memory came out in the early '90's which has generally replaced > the older EPROM and EEPROM is most devices. The beauty of Flash and > older EEPROM is that it could be erased and reprogrammed while in a > device where as EPROM usually required removal. Todays FLash devices > (Intel and AMD) have multiple sections where you can both store code and > variables, as well as keep the latest change data on the product. AN > example on an ECC might be run the car and collect OBD-II data. In many > cases engineers may combine Flash memory with a smaller EEPROM. The > flash holds the program while the EEPROM holds the every day data > (OBD-II). I hope this gets you started. > > Ron Boley > > > Geoff & Sue Richards wrote: > > > > Could someone be able to tell me of any books or web sites that can > explain > > the workings of a prom? > > I have searched the archives in vain,any references to proms are for > those > > that already know how these work > > I would like to understand addresses and maps etc > > TIA > > Geoff From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 13:20:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24065 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:20:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.clarityconnect.com (mail.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24061 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:20:39 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (209.150.253.54) by mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:29:06 -0500 Message-ID: <363CD04D.1427@clarityconnect.com> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 13:19:09 -0800 From: Scot Sealander X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EGR and BLMs, was Oxygen sensor.... References: <363BCD0C.1F267170@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu mrvette wrote: > But from the below convertsation the question I have is...what affect > does the capability of doing the block learn tables over driving time > have o this...seems that the BLC would correct for any built in errors > due to the changes....? rite? rong? Right, Gene. The block learn can easily add the necessary fuel. It is within range, but is only needed if you disable EGR by external means. That is, if you use an EGR block-off plate, or otherwise defeat EGR mechanically, and the ECM thinks that EGR is really on when it is defeated, it needs to add fuel, and it will. If you turn EGR off in the ECM, such as the PWM to the EGR is zero, then the ECM knows that there is no EGR, and it has the fueling right to start with. The spark *in-this-case* is a little more complex. One would have to see what the cal tables look like to really know, and not guess at what is going on. Tuning by long distance can be very difficult.... ;-) Scot Sealander Sealand@clarityconnect.com From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 14:04:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24534 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:04:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24530 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:04:34 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27300 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:04:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv4-7.oshawa.idirect.com [207.136.121.199]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA15738 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:05:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901be05e3$83373120$c77988cf@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Hunting Idle Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:03:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE05A0.74415EE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE05A0.74415EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Any help with this would be appreciated...........I am working with a = mild MPFI 427 big-block project. The engine and cam are fairly = conservative, the induction system is from Accel, the injectors are 30 = #/HR SVO saturated units, the computer is a 16197427 with BCC AUJP. = Despite much effort, we cannot get a stable warm idle. The idle speed = hunts up/down excessively, and the rush of air through the IAC sounds = like a large household vacuum cleaner. The IAC is responding to the = computer. With a carb, the engine used to idle nicely at 800 RPM with = around 16 "Hg. Learned IAC counts are about 40, and current IAC counts = swing wildly. More throttle blade minimum airflow does not seem to help = much. Thanks. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE05A0.74415EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Any help with this would be appreciated...........I = am working=20 with a mild MPFI 427 big-block project.  The engine and cam are = fairly=20 conservative,  the induction system is from Accel,  the = injectors are=20 30 #/HR SVO saturated units, the computer is a 16197427 with BCC=20 AUJP.   Despite much effort, we cannot get a stable warm = idle. =20 The idle speed hunts up/down excessively, and the rush of air through = the IAC=20 sounds like a large household vacuum cleaner.  The IAC is = responding to the=20 computer.   With a carb,  the engine used to idle nicely = at 800=20 RPM with around 16 "Hg.   Learned IAC counts are about = 40, and=20 current IAC counts swing wildly.  More throttle blade minimum = airflow does=20 not seem to help much.
 
Thanks.
 
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE05A0.74415EE0-- From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 14:28:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24763 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:28:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24759 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:28:22 -0500 From: ChrisBourk@aol.com Received: from ChrisBourk@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7PKFa02539 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:27:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <386a4c88.363cb62b@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:27:39 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Hunting Idle Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 60 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-11-01 14:15:56 EST, you write: << Any help with this would be appreciated...........I am working with a mild MPFI 427 big-block project. The engine and cam are fairly conservative, the induction system is from Accel, the injectors are 30 #/HR SVO saturated units, the computer is a 16197427 with BCC AUJP. Despite much effort, we cannot get a stable warm idle. The idle speed hunts up/down excessively, and the rush of air through the IAC sounds like a large household vacuum cleaner. The IAC is responding to the computer. With a carb, the engine used to idle nicely at 800 RPM with around 16 "Hg. Learned IAC counts are about 40, and current IAC counts swing wildly. More throttle blade minimum airflow does not seem to help much. Thanks. >> Vacum leak??? Christopher From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 14:37:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA24906 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:37:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ch4.viperlink.net (ch4.viperlink.net [209.136.106.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA24902 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:37:52 -0500 Received: from dapiper.viperlink.com (dialin-espr206.viperlink.net [209.136.107.206] (may be forged)) by ch4.viperlink.net (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA04830 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 14:34:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199811011934.OAA04830@ch4.viperlink.net> X-Sender: dapiper@mail.one.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 14:41:54 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: David Piper Subject: DynoJet Dynamometer for sale Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there anybody out there? Who wants a great performance tuning tool, that is. This is Dynojet's model 248H chassis dyno with lube oil style hydraulic lift suitable for above ground installations. Includes computer, printer, latest SW upgrade, tie downs and many spares. Unit includes CDS data acquisition system which can measure any pressure, temperature or flow on the engine simultaneously, while measuring HP and torque. For example; boost, fuel press and flow, EGT, exh back press, turbine back press, intercooler in/out temps, Lambda (O2 sensor) and intk charge temp and press. Use the latest tool for quantifying the performance of aftermarket parts for your customer's satisfaction. Substantiate the improvements of your ECU chip reprogramming business. Perform development work for race teams with the official licensed dyno of NASCAR. Price is $30K outright, or $10K and take over lease payments of $705/mo. Relocation forces sale. For info on the DynoJet, see dynojet.com web site or call anytime. Contact: David Piper, owner Performance Chassis Dyno 239 Beverly Road Greeenville, SC 29609 864-322-2737 dapiper@one.net From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 14:48:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25141 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:48:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25137 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:48:54 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-28.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.46]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA19912 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:48:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006001be05d1$1ecfef40$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Hunting Idle Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:52:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005D_01BE05A7.3539A480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BE05A7.3539A480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well as far as I know that ecm is for a 512 prom, and the aujp is a = 256 some time ago tried running a 128K where a 256 was supposed to go, = and it had about the same problem. Might try double loading the the=20 256 on the 512 prom. Bruce =20 =20 Any help with this would be appreciated...........I am working with = a mild MPFI 427 big-block project. The engine and cam are fairly = conservative, the induction system is from Accel, the injectors are 30 = #/HR SVO saturated units, the computer is a 16197427 with BCC AUJP. = Despite much effort, we cannot get a stable warm idle. The idle speed = hunts up/down excessively, and the rush of air through the IAC sounds = like a large household vacuum cleaner. The IAC is responding to the = computer. With a carb, the engine used to idle nicely at 800 RPM with = around 16 "Hg. Learned IAC counts are about 40, and current IAC counts = swing wildly. More throttle blade minimum airflow does not seem to help = much. =20 Thanks. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BE05A7.3539A480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well as = far as I know=20 that ecm is for a 512 prom, and the aujp is a 256
some time = ago tried=20 running a 128K where a 256 was supposed to go, and it had about the = same=20 problem.  Might try double loading the the
256 on the 512 prom.
Bruce 
 
Any help with this would be = appreciated...........I am=20 working with a mild MPFI 427 big-block project.  The engine and = cam are=20 fairly conservative,  the induction system is from Accel,  = the=20 injectors are 30 #/HR SVO saturated units, the computer is a = 16197427 with=20 BCC AUJP.   Despite much effort, we cannot get a stable = warm=20 idle.  The idle speed hunts up/down excessively, and the rush = of air=20 through the IAC sounds like a large household vacuum cleaner.  = The IAC=20 is responding to the computer.   With a carb,  the = engine=20 used to idle nicely at 800 RPM with around 16 "Hg.   = Learned=20 IAC counts are about 40, and current IAC counts swing wildly.  = More=20 throttle blade minimum airflow does not seem to help = much.
 
Thanks.
 
------=_NextPart_000_005D_01BE05A7.3539A480-- From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 15:06:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25580 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:06:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ch4.viperlink.net (ch4.viperlink.net [209.136.106.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25574 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:06:47 -0500 Received: from dapiper.viperlink.com (dialin-espr206.viperlink.net [209.136.107.206] (may be forged)) by ch4.viperlink.net (2.5 Build 2639 (Berkeley 8.8.6)/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA04868 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 15:03:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199811012003.PAA04868@ch4.viperlink.net> X-Sender: dapiper@mail.one.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 15:10:53 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: David Piper Subject: O2 sensor Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone know of 4-wire sensor that is preferred due to its resistance to lead poisoning? Search of local parts store turned up several Bosch P/N's LSH 22, 25 and 64. They all appear the same, except for lead length and termination style. Are there any other differences? I heard the NTK used for Fords is especially resistant. Where can I get these? Thanks TurboDave From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 15:17:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25864 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:17:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mango.bcit.bc.ca (mango.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.166]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA25855 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:17:17 -0500 Received: by mango.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 882566AF.00701DBC ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:24:36 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <882566AF.006FDA2D.00@mango.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:24:05 -0800 Subject: Re: Hunting Idle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Walter Hunting idle is fun. AUJP I thought was a 730 calibration? It works then it works.. One thing to try is reversing one of the pairs of leads to one of the IAC coils. Sometimes these end up wrong. Also try increasing min air. Get your counts around 1 or 2 Pintle shape is also critical. A blunt pintle makes for oscillating idle A more tapered one is better. gl:peter From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 15:17:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA25880 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:17:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA25875 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:17:55 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-28.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.46]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA09150 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:17:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009101be05d5$2b4d1f00$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: EGR and BLMs, was Oxygen sensor.... Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:21:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Scot Sealander To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 2:50 PM Subject: Re: EGR and BLMs, was Oxygen sensor.... >mrvette wrote: > >> But from the below convertsation the question I have is...what affect >> does the capability of doing the block learn tables over driving time >> have o this...seems that the BLC would correct for any built in errors >> due to the changes....? rite? rong? > >Right, Gene. > >The block learn can easily add the necessary fuel. It is within range, >but is only needed if you disable EGR by external means. That is, if you >use an EGR block-off plate, or otherwise defeat EGR mechanically, and the >ECM thinks that EGR is really on when it is defeated, it needs to add >fuel, and it will. Not all the time, might add the fuel and set SES light. Cheers Bruce > >If you turn EGR off in the ECM, such as the PWM to the EGR is zero, then >the ECM knows that there is no EGR, and it has the fueling right to start >with. > >The spark *in-this-case* is a little more complex. One would have to see >what the cal tables look like to really know, and not guess at what is >going on. Tuning by long distance can be very difficult.... ;-) > >Scot Sealander Sealand@clarityconnect.com > From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 15:23:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26012 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:23:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26007 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:23:32 -0500 Received: from koala (137.82.2.60) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:23:46 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:23:22 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: David Piper cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensor In-Reply-To: <199811012003.PAA04868@ch4.viperlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I didn't know there was such a thing as a lead resistant O2 sensor. The ford ones are available through ford motorsport, up here in canada a pair will set you back about $200 (~$130 US). HTH jw On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, David Piper wrote: > Anyone know of 4-wire sensor that is preferred due to its resistance to lead > poisoning? Search of local parts store turned up several Bosch P/N's LSH > 22, 25 and 64. They all appear the same, except for lead length and > termination style. Are there any other differences? I heard the NTK used > for Fords is especially resistant. Where can I get these? > > Thanks > TurboDave > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 15:40:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA26293 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:40:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26289 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:40:47 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-28.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.46]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA27827 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:40:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a201be05d8$5e7a49e0$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: O2 sensor Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:44:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: David Piper To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 3:29 PM Subject: O2 sensor Just my two cents, it really doesn't matter much. If your racing the heat + lead will get to them, but if for a once inna while thing no big deal. Considering some countries just went to unleaded, and have been running o2 for years. As long as the are driven some with unleaded, while the life is probably shortened some, no big deal. If for pure racing then the penalty is short life, and I can't see one ceramic being that much different even thou some manufacturers would like you to think so. There is just so many things they add to gas to make it so, getting a 50K is a wonder it itself. Bruce >Anyone know of 4-wire sensor that is preferred due to its resistance to lead >poisoning? Search of local parts store turned up several Bosch P/N's LSH >22, 25 and 64. They all appear the same, except for lead length and >termination style. Are there any other differences? I heard the NTK used >for Fords is especially resistant. Where can I get these? > >Thanks >TurboDave > From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 16:03:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA26704 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:03:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA26699 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:03:44 -0500 From: ARoss10661@aol.com Received: from ARoss10661@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7SKDa19215 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:03:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4987509b.363ccc85@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:03:01 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DynoJet Dynamometer for sale Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-11-01 14:45:57 EST, you write: << Is there anybody out there? Who wants a great performance tuning tool, that is. This is Dynojet's model 248H chassis dyno with lube oil style hydraulic lift suitable for above ground installations. Includes computer, printer, latest SW upgrade, tie downs and many spares >> Man, if only I could convince my wife to give up her side of the garage! From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 16:35:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA27113 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:35:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27108 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 16:35:22 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA05847 for mail_from ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:22:30 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:22:30 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Hunting Idle Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi Walter > >Hunting idle is fun. > Yeah, but elk meat tastes a whole lot better---- --Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 17:12:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA27670 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 17:12:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA27664 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 17:12:54 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-28.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.46]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA07492 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 17:12:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00f501be05e5$3c6d5380$2c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Hunting Idle Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 17:16:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 5:09 PM Subject: Re: Hunting Idle >>Hi Walter >>Hunting idle is fun. >Yeah, but elk meat tastes a whole lot better---- >--Greg Beg to differ when aged the idle is much better. Bruce From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 19:20:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29204 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:20:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from express.globetrotter.net (express.globetrotter.net [142.169.1.93]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29200 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:20:30 -0500 Received: from globetrotter.qc.ca (ts1-27.f2002.quebectel.com [142.169.160.97]) by express.globetrotter.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17740; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:20:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <363CFAFB.9F29F809@globetrotter.qc.ca> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 19:21:42 -0500 From: H Villemure Organization: Memoire Vive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Toyota DIY'er References: <01BE040F.FB9ACF80@mg-20425422-68.ricochet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Chris, thank you an awful lot for the information. I will keep digging for more information on the subject. I think that I will also self-educate with the 68HC11 regarding ignition and mixture management, this information seems to be well covered. When I am more up to the current level of knowledge I will try my best to spread the word with Toyota/Nissan/Mazda lovers :) :). Later, Chris Conlon wrote: > > Helene V. wrote: > > > Hey, funny, when I subscribed to diy_efi I asked the same about > > microcontroller programming... (got no answer) > > Oops, I figured someone would have answered that. > > The only thing I've ever really seen to let you tweak the on-chip code in > Toyota ECUs is the Techtom stuff that G-Force (and others?) use(s). I > think it's similar to something another poster mentioned recently: you > use a feature of the microcontroller to read out the onboard rom, modify > the code, and the program an EPROM version of the same microcontroller > with your new code. (And/or make an adapter board, and force the existing > micro to read the code & data from an external EPROM.) > > Techtom apparently even offer training classes for tuning various ECUs, > once you buy their $$$ setup. > > As the other fellow said, it could be a fun project, but it's gonna be > a fair bit more work than downloading a bin file, burning an EPROM and > swapping it in. > > I seem to remember hearing that the ECU in question was an 8051 or variant, > but I could be totally wrong here. I used to have URLs for a little bit > of Techtom & G-Force info, I can dig for them if you're interested in > going this route. Also the MR2 list is in the middle of a big group buy > on G-Force upgrades for the SW20, and it seems like the G-Force people > aren't *too* tight-lipped about the tech details. > -- Helene V. ___________________ "If it ain't broke, make it faster" Check out our mondo Toyota page at http://www.students.tut.fi/~k124476 and stay tuned for just how many miles on a 5M-GE before it dies (now 235 000) From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 19:40:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29477 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:40:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pong.francomm.com (root@pong.francomm.com [208.9.129.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29473 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:40:26 -0500 Received: from gjcouse (dialup13maxa82.francomm.com [208.9.129.82]) by pong.francomm.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02381 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:45:01 -0500 From: " Cutlass IROC-SS" To: Subject: RE: EGR and BLMs, was Oxygen sensor.... Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:40:21 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be05f9$5f0c74c0$528109d0@gjcouse.francomm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <009101be05d5$2b4d1f00$2c198fd1@nacelp> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello List, Hi, I'm Gary Couse. In searching the web over trying to find info on injecting both 403 and 455 Olds, I came acrost a reference to this list. I am currently building a prototype for the CC-IROC-SS conversion product line. Based on the '82-'86 Oldsmobile Cutlass G-body. I will offer 3 different drive lines. The interest that brings me here is EFI for the top 2 power plants. Anyone having practical physical experience, info, or links to info about injecting the Olds 403, (455 will come later), please respond directly. It might help you out to understand the fledgling project site. I just created the site This site is not open to the public yet. Click on the Couse Customs link below to be transported to "Quincy", The prototype. You'll also have the chance at delve a little deeper into the CC-IROC-SS conversion. Bottom line; Does the Olds 403ci have a bolt on EFI system available? Am I into hand fabrication? I really want a dual rail port injection with turbo. I can accomplish all the turbo aspects. -----Regards, G.J.C Gary J. Couse Couse Customs Rt-1, Box-615 Bailey Road Purling, N.Y. 12470-9709 ICQ# 5209322 CC-IROC-SS 518-622-0376 mailto:gjcouse@francomm.com Couse Custom Cutlass, '86 CC-IROC-SS-#1 = "Quincy" http://members.tripod.com/~cousecustoms/ From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 19:50:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29633 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:50:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from silver.hkabc.net (silver.hkabc.net [202.73.252.65]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29629 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 19:50:22 -0500 Received: from hkabc.net (ppp253161.hkabc.net [202.73.253.161]) by silver.hkabc.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA14473 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:46:05 +0800 (HKT) Message-Id: <199811020046.IAA14473@silver.hkabc.net> From: "WILMAN" To: Subject: Re: Ford OBD II -> PC interface Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1990 11:21:30 +0800 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ---------- > From: Mark Wilcutts > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Ford OBD II -> PC interface > Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 10:06 PM > > >From their website it appears they don't produce a product compatible with > the PWM implementation of the OBDII standard, the versions they have are > for the VPW and ISO implementations. Do you have other information? > > thanks- > > -- > Mark Wilcutts > > On Wed, 10 Jan 1990, WILMAN wrote: > > > Try carcomp.com. Their OBD II software is about $300. > > > > Wilman Try to send Mr Grable of Carcomp an e-mail. He is at grable@smithville.net. > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 20:04:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA29979 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:04:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA29975 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:04:48 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-7.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.7]) by mail.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28856 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:04:45 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811020104.UAA28856@mail.lig> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 20:04:46 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Hunting Idle In-Reply-To: <00f501be05e5$3c6d5380$2c198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I prefer mine smoked At 05:16 PM 11/1/98 -0500, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg Hermann >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 5:09 PM >Subject: Re: Hunting Idle > > >>>Hi Walter >>>Hunting idle is fun. >>Yeah, but elk meat tastes a whole lot better---- >>--Greg > > >Beg to differ when aged the idle is much better. >Bruce > =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun Nov 1 21:11:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA30837 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:11:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA30833 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:11:33 -0500 Received: from mwt.net (ppp46.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.176]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA28609 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 20:10:30 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <363D06F7.42E4886C@mwt.net> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 19:12:24 -0600 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensor References: <00a201be05d8$5e7a49e0$2c198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I do not know if you can only get leaded gas but i can get more HP out of unleaded race gas in short track work with the small carb rules and i would think that HP would be the same with the big carbs. Then tune with O2 meter readings. Steve Bruce Plecan wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: David Piper > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 3:29 PM > Subject: O2 sensor > > Just my two cents, it really doesn't matter much. If your racing the heat + > lead > will get to them, but if for a once inna while thing no big deal. > Considering > some countries just went to unleaded, and have been running o2 for years. > As long as the are driven some with unleaded, while the life is probably > shortened some, no big deal. If for pure racing then the penalty is short > life, > and I can't see one ceramic being that much different even thou some > manufacturers would like you to think so. There is just so many things they > add to gas to make it so, getting a 50K is a wonder it itself. > Bruce > > >Anyone know of 4-wire sensor that is preferred due to its resistance to > lead > >poisoning? Search of local parts store turned up several Bosch P/N's LSH > >22, 25 and 64. They all appear the same, except for lead length and > >termination style. Are there any other differences? I heard the NTK used > >for Fords is especially resistant. Where can I get these? > > > >Thanks > >TurboDave > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 03:39:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA01309 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:39:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA01305 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:39:22 -0500 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7DPMa10655 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:38:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4288569a.363d6f96@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 03:38:46 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 10/29/98 10:52:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com writes: << > Hi, > Try a Mass Air Sensor for a 99 Chev Truck.....It supposedly can pass > enough air for 525 hp (according to a GM guy)...and get this I can buy them at > the dealer for $40. I think GM has their pricing wrong....btw they also have > an air temp sensor built in.......hth's But I'm assuming that this is probably a frequency output device, not a voltage differential, right? >> Yes you are correct,,,,it outputs frequency, -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 05:12:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA01991 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:12:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.17.224.215]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA01987 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:12:33 -0500 Received: (qmail 5928 invoked from network); 2 Nov 1998 10:12:29 -0000 Received: from modem24-tar-isp-1.one.net.au (HELO holden) (203.101.3.88) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 2 Nov 1998 10:12:29 -0000 Message-ID: <004801be0650$a87d8020$580365cb@holden> From: "Geoff & Sue Richards" To: Subject: Re: where to find info Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 22:00:18 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >The prom was laid out in a matrix of addresses of a specific word length. >To program them you specified an address and the "value" or the word. Every >bit which was a 1, the programmer would blow the fuse. This is what I want to find out about have seen maps etc but no idea how to read 'em Any books recommended need to be basic >These were very cheap compared to EPROMS but were definitely one shot >devices. Programming changes required new PROM chips. Hope that helps. Cheers Geoff From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 07:56:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA03425 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:56:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.enter.net (root@mail.enter.net [204.170.70.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA03421 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:56:26 -0500 From: rbraun@mail.enter.net Received: from rbraun (atmax-3-6.enter.net [192.204.98.112]) by mail.enter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA25879 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:56:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811021256.HAA25879@mail.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:56:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hunting Idle Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000901be05e3$83373120$c77988cf@wsherwin> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I had something like this on mine, pinch off the hose to the MAP if it smooths out what you need is a restrictor in that line. What fixed mine is using a factory long, thin (1/8" dia) plastic hose in place of 1/4" vacuum tubing. > Any help with this would be appreciated...........I am working with a mild MPFI 427 big-block project. The engine and cam are fairly conservative, the induction system is from Accel, the injectors> > Thanks. > > > Randy Braun '77 C-10 pick-up, DFI-Tuned Port, 350 '82 Firebird, DFI, ZZ3 '91 GTA, Stock From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 09:47:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04824 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:47:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04820 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:47:20 -0500 Received: from hpanlhc.an.hp.com (hpanlhc0.an.hp.com [15.63.115.100]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id GAA26828; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:46:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tudor (hpantfr.an.hp.com [15.55.104.118]) by hpanlhc.an.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3 TIS Messaging 5.0) id JAA28567; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:43:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <363DC513.5459@hp.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 09:43:31 -0500 From: Dave Hempstead Organization: Hewlett-Packard X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dave_hempstead@hp.com, DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, naisso@magicnet.net Subject: GM Trouble codes, Help Please Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've finally got my '96 Impala SS engine running (with 4L60E trans). It is controlled by a '95 Camaro PCM (to avoid the OBD-II stuff). It runs fairly well, but not nearly as smooth as I'd expect. I put a scanner on the ALDL and got the following codes: 26 Quad Driver Module 1 Fault 29 EAS Electrical Fault QDM 97 4k pulses/mile Fault QDM These codes don't show up immediately, but after the engine has been running for a short while (say 30 seconds). I've got a list of the data/codes coming out of the PCM, but it simply lists these codes. I've got the complete diagnostic shop manuals for the '96 engine, but they don't match the '95. I've read the manual for the scanner, but it doesn't help much. My questions: 1. What the heck is the EAS???? I can't find it documented anywhere! 2. Where can I find more info about Quad Data Module (QDM) number 1? 3. I'm suspicious about the Vehicle Speed Sensor. The '95 wiring harness connector didn't mate with the VSS on the '96 transmission. I did wire them together without the plugs. Are these different? The only faults I've found so far with the engine are some bad (fouled?) injectors. This engine sat in my garage on a pallet for one and a half years. When I first fired it up it barely ran. I found 2 injectors weren't doing anything. I might have a couple more bad injectors, but at $66 a pop, I want to be sure before I spend money on them. Anyone know a way to 'repair' fouled/plugged/bad injectors???? I'm sure there are experts out there who know the differences between the '95 and '96, and understand the details of these codes. The Snap-On scanner is going back to the shop I borrowed it from, but I'm on my way to wiring up my own ALDL-to-PC circuit, and the software to drive it, so I should have my own personal scanner soon. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks, Dave Hempstead '34 Ford Tudor Sedan (at the body shop) From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 10:30:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05494 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:30:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ci.west-valley.ut.us (icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us [204.246.130.98]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05490 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:30:13 -0500 Received: from WVCDomain-Message_Server by ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:31:30 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:31:16 -0700 From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Z Industries Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id KAA05491 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Where do we find Z Industries? From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 10:36:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05575 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:36:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05570 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:36:51 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id KAA14221 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:36:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:36:52 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B54@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: where to find info Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:36:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Geoff, Don't suppose you'd have one of those maps in electronic format (or if you could scan one) and pop it off. Might be easier if I explained what the sucker was trying to say. I can't think of a book on PROMs specifically right now. I'm no expert, but I might be able to read your map. FWIW. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff & Sue Richards [SMTP:geoffsue@one.net.au] > Sent: Sunday, October 25, 1998 6:00 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: where to find info > > > > > > > > >The prom was laid out in a matrix of addresses of a specific word length. > >To program them you specified an address and the "value" or the word. > Every > >bit which was a 1, the programmer would blow the fuse. > > This is what I want to find out about have seen maps etc but no idea how > to > read 'em > Any books recommended > need to be basic > > >These were very cheap compared to EPROMS but were definitely one shot > >devices. Programming changes required new PROM chips. Hope that helps. > Cheers > Geoff From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 10:58:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05973 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:58:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f317.hotmail.com [207.82.250.237]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05920 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:54:41 -0500 Received: (qmail 28306 invoked by uid 65534); 2 Nov 1998 15:53:26 -0000 Message-ID: <19981102155326.28304.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.217.140.22 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 07:53:26 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.217.140.22] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EFI Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 07:53:26 PST Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It was written: ><< > Hi, > > Try a Mass Air Sensor for a 99 Chev Truck.....It supposedly can pass > But I'm assuming that this is probably a frequency output device, not a > voltage differential, right? > >> >Yes you are correct,,,,it outputs frequency, >-Carl Summers If your ECU requires a voltage-type input from the MAF, one way to deal with this might be to use National's Freq to Voltage converter chip, the LM2917 (or equivalent). Some guy's using this for a tach/shift light controller at: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/7415/shift.htm -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 11:08:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06200 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:08:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06196 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:08:24 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-12.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.30]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id LAA21440 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:08:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009301be067b$7be1eb20$1e198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: EFI Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:11:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 5:28 AM Subject: Re: EFI Try a Mass Air Sensor for a 99 Chev Truck.....It supposedly can pass enough air for 525 hp (according to a GM guy)...and get this I can buy them at the dealer for $40. I think GM has their pricing wrong....btw they also have an air temp sensor built in.......hth's But I'm assuming that this is probably a frequency output device, not a voltage differential, right? Yes you are correct,,,,it outputs frequency, Carl Summers Maybe a part number please? Bruce From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 12:05:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22103 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:05:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21988 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:05:42 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du184-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.184]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA21972 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:05:37 -0800 Message-Id: <199811021705.JAA21972@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 09:09:17 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <199810281409.IAA10445@mcmsys.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a questions on that cabapilites of the PIC line of processors, here is what I'm looking to do hardware wise, might you think it can be done with a PIC and some additional hardware. LCD Display (probabally 4 bit interface) RS232 Interface 16 Outputs (via 2 74HC595's) 8 Inputs (via 74HC165) Input for a rotary encoder (2 inputs) 2K of Data Storage User Programmable (Maybe 93C86 or 24C16 Serial EEPROM) What might I be looking at as far as PIC part. Looks like 3 serial devices, and 2 Input pins, and 2 I/O for RS/232. Is a configuration like this possible, comments etc. Thanks, Sandy From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 12:19:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA14061 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:19:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from partech.com (partech.com [206.114.186.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA13899 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:19:03 -0500 Received: from claven.partech.com (claven.partech.com [172.16.16.1]) by partech.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA17149 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:19:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from cliff.partech.com by claven.partech.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA20883; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:19:28 -0500 Received: by cliff.partech.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:19:14 -0700 Message-Id: <417874D50365D211A1220000B490965E033429@cliff.partech.com> From: Jim Velasquez To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Hunting idle Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:19:07 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No, No, No... TIRES should be smoked; Idle should be smooth like a fine wine... >From: "David A. Cooley" >I prefer mine smoked >>From: Greg Hermann >>>Hi Walter >>>Hunting idle is fun. >>Yeah, but elk meat tastes a whole lot better---- >>--Greg >>Beg to differ when aged the idle is much better. >>Bruce >> From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 13:15:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11001 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:15:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10997 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:15:17 -0500 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7TDEa03785 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:14:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:14:41 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Z Industries Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/2/98 7:39:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, dsagers@ci.west- valley.ut.us writes: << Subj: Z Industries Date: 11/2/98 7:39:22 AM Pacific Standard Time From: dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us (David Sagers) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Where do we find Z Industries? >> 714-779-6680 -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 13:26:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11167 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:26:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11163 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:26:39 -0500 Received: from steve.raba.com (ipb124.baltimore10.md.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.22.124]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA13161 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:26:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363DF86B.377F@earthlink.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:22:35 -0500 From: Bruce Bowling Organization: Arrow Electronics, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PIC Questions References: <199811021705.JAA21972@mail.wgn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sandy wrote: > > I have a questions on that cabapilites of the PIC line of processors, here > is what I'm looking to do hardware wise, might you think it can be done > with a PIC and some additional hardware. > > LCD Display (probabally 4 bit interface) > RS232 Interface > 16 Outputs (via 2 74HC595's) > 8 Inputs (via 74HC165) > Input for a rotary encoder (2 inputs) > 2K of Data Storage User Programmable > (Maybe 93C86 or 24C16 Serial EEPROM) > > What might I be looking at as far as PIC part. Looks like 3 serial devices, > and 2 Input pins, and 2 I/O for RS/232. Is a configuration like this > possible, comments etc. > > Thanks, Sandy Hi Sandy, Try the PIC16C74A, it has 4K ROM (OTP), 192 bytes RAM, 33 I/O channels (each w/ 25 ma source/sink), 2 input capture, USART/IIC/SPI, and is 20 MHz. - Bruce -- - Bruce --------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling bbowling@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~bbowling --------------------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 13:34:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11299 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:34:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [194.126.80.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11295 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:34:34 -0500 Received: from client086d.globalnet.co.uk ([195.147.8.109] helo=default) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zaOoB-0006ww-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:34:32 +0000 Message-ID: <004c01be068f$73909de0$02000003@default> From: "John Thacker" To: Subject: Bosch Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:25:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The Alfa 75 t-spark is fitted with a Motronic 4.1 system it as a diagnostic socket but no fault light. how can I access the fault codes and what format will it take ? I'm new to the list but have noticed a few posts about interfacing a PC with the efi system, is this easily achieved and can anyone recommend a good reference to get me started thanks From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 13:58:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11756 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:58:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11741 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:57:40 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA05544 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:57:25 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id KAA14425 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:57:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811021857.KAA14425@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: PIC Questions To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:57:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <363DF86B.377F@earthlink.com> from "Bruce Bowling" at Nov 2, 98 01:22:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Try the PIC16C74A, it has 4K ROM (OTP), 192 bytes RAM, 33 I/O channels > (each w/ 25 ma source/sink), 2 input capture, USART/IIC/SPI, and > is 20 MHz. I'd look at the 16C76 as well. No need for 33 I/O pins if you are running the I/O off serial. I'd suggest the '73A as well, but the '76 has more modes on the SPI ('73 won't drive the MC145051 AtoD, but the '76 should). BTW: I have working code for driving LCD displays (4-bit)... unlike the Microchip App note code which usually doesn't work. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 14:43:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12698 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:43:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12694 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:43:14 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du336-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.82]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA11752 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:43:07 -0800 Message-Id: <199811021943.LAA11752@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:46:50 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <363DF86B.377F@earthlink.com> References: <199811021705.JAA21972@mail.wgn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu That looks like it will do the trick, an it looks like actually room for some code ;-) Sandy At 01:22 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sandy wrote: >> >> I have a questions on that cabapilites of the PIC line of processors, here >> is what I'm looking to do hardware wise, might you think it can be done >> with a PIC and some additional hardware. >> >> LCD Display (probabally 4 bit interface) >> RS232 Interface >> 16 Outputs (via 2 74HC595's) >> 8 Inputs (via 74HC165) >> Input for a rotary encoder (2 inputs) >> 2K of Data Storage User Programmable >> (Maybe 93C86 or 24C16 Serial EEPROM) >> >> What might I be looking at as far as PIC part. Looks like 3 serial devices, >> and 2 Input pins, and 2 I/O for RS/232. Is a configuration like this >> possible, comments etc. >> >> Thanks, Sandy > >Hi Sandy, > >Try the PIC16C74A, it has 4K ROM (OTP), 192 bytes RAM, 33 I/O channels >(each w/ 25 ma source/sink), 2 input capture, USART/IIC/SPI, and >is 20 MHz. > >- Bruce >-- >- Bruce > >--------------------------------------------- > Bruce A. Bowling > bbowling@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~bbowling >--------------------------------------------- > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 14:46:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12762 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:46:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12754 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:46:18 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du336-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.82]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA12125 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:46:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199811021946.LAA12125@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 11:49:57 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <199811021857.KAA14425@gonzo.wolfenet.com> References: <363DF86B.377F@earthlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, if the cost of the part is less then the extra interface chips they can go. Also, the board realestate can be used for other things, less parts is always better, unless the cost is really high. May take you up on the display stuff. I am at a very early state for this (yet another project)... Sandy At 10:57 AM 11/2/98 -0800, you wrote: > >> Try the PIC16C74A, it has 4K ROM (OTP), 192 bytes RAM, 33 I/O channels >> (each w/ 25 ma source/sink), 2 input capture, USART/IIC/SPI, and >> is 20 MHz. > >I'd look at the 16C76 as well. No need for 33 I/O pins if you are >running the I/O off serial. I'd suggest the '73A as well, but the >'76 has more modes on the SPI ('73 won't drive the MC145051 AtoD, >but the '76 should). > >BTW: I have working code for driving LCD displays (4-bit)... unlike the >Microchip App note code which usually doesn't work. > >Orin. > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 15:07:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13359 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:07:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13355 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:07:24 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:07:13 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: 1227746 ECM Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:06:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I found a 7746 ECM ( ACDW) at the local U-Pull- IT . The donor car was a 4.3L TBI 1987 Grand Prix this set up seems to be the same as a 1987 Astro Van with a 7747 ECM are the ECM's plug and play ? I would also appreciate some help With downloading Bin files, Can a PROM be burned from the data in the Bin's ? Thanks Don From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 15:08:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13371 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:08:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13367 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:08:31 -0500 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12805 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:08:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com ([143.114.73.5]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with ESMTP id <0F1T00KYZ79K7D@lmco.com> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:24:57 -0700 (MST) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com [143.114.72.1]) by mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07543 for ; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:24:55 -0600 (CST) Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id NAA12947; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:24:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:24:52 -0600 From: Joe Boucher Subject: [Fwd: [M] Knock Sensor testor] To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Message-id: <363E0703.574AA529@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------BF2E8DA14636A8017AD28935" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BF2E8DA14636A8017AD28935 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is an interesting circuit from the Merkur list: A recent thread concerns the possibility of the knock sensor (KS) getting tripped inappropriately, before actual detonation is occurring, with a resulting reduction in performance due to the engine management system retarding the timing. The question came up of how to test the KS. If anyone is interested, here's a little inexpensive circuit which will flash an LED whenever the knock sensor is "tripped". Thus, you can check out the operation of the KS under actual operating conditions while driving the car. It may be useful to get a sense of under what conditions the KS starts getting tripped. + 9V battery o | 1.2K 10K | |-----\/\/\/--o--/\/\/\------o --- | | 4 /// | |----------| Gnd | 3| | |-------->| | + - | LM324 |---->(LED)--| 2| | 1 | From KS (+) >---------------->| | | |----------| | | 11 | o------------------| | --- /// Gnd Parts: 1 10K 1/4W resistor 5% 1 1.2K 1/4W resistor 5% 1 Any LED (a "superbright' is easier to see) 1 LM324 op-amp (Radio Shack) 1 9V battery All these parts are very common, and can be gotten at a Radio Shack. Total cost should be under $5. The battery will be the most expensive item. The numbers refer to pin numbers on the LM324. Unused pins are left unconnected. The circuit can be built on a piece of "perfboard" or similar (Radio Shack) or the parts can be simply glued onto a piece of plastic or something and the connections made by soldering thin insulated wires "point-to-point". The LM324 can be glued upside down on the plastic (dead-bug technique). On my XR4Ti the nominal voltage fed to the KS is about 2.5 volts. The two resistors will give about 1 volt to the LM324 at pin 3. Then, whenever the voltage on the knock sensor drops below 1 volt (KS activated), the LED will flash. To use, keep the gizmo with you in the car, and run a long wire to the (+) terminal of the KS. Any wire will do, can be small gauge. The two grounds (Gnd) of the circuit should be connected together and also connected to the chassis ground of the car. So, you'll have two wires coming off the circuit, one going to the KS, and the other going to chassis ground of the car. Now, while driving the LED will tell you when the KS is getting tripped. A "superbright" LED will be easier to see in the daytime. Disclaimer: I haven't built and used this circuit in my car yet. I _have_ built it on the bench and it worked there. If anyone wants to try it out, I'll be happy to help out if there are any questions. Please email me off-list. Thanks! Steve ------------------------------- Steve Roberts sroberts@sunstroke.sdsu.edu 619 454 5234, 619 454 7008 FAX ------------------------------- --------------BF2E8DA14636A8017AD28935 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id PAA17450; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:45:17 -0600 (CST) Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (emss02g01.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15318 for ; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 15:45:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from mailgw1a.lmco.com ([192.31.106.7]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with ESMTP id <0F1R00F4EJ3GN8@lmco.com> for BoucherJC@LMTAS.LMCO.COM; Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:45:16 -0700 (MST) Received: from mango.ease.lsoft.com (mango.ease.lsoft.com [206.241.13.21]) by mailgw1a.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA06635 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 14:45:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from home (206.241.12.9) by mango.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.FD309980@mango.ease.lsoft.com>; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 16:45:10 -0500 Received: from HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM by HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 16136063 for MERKUR-OWNERS@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 16:46:52 -0500 Received: from sciences.sdsu.edu by home.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <4.FEFD519D@home.ease.lsoft.com>; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 16:46:51 -0500 Received: from SDSU.sdsu.edu ([130.191.9.26]) by sciences.sdsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/SCEC-8.8.8-AS.AR.S5) with SMTP id NAA19962 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 1998 13:45:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 13:44:51 -0800 From: Stephen Roberts Subject: [M] Knock Sensor testor Sender: The Merkur Owners List X-Sender: sroberts@sunstroke.sdsu.edu (Unverified) To: MERKUR-OWNERS@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM Reply-to: Stephen Roberts Message-id: <3.0.32.19981101134338.00685ed4@sunstroke.sdsu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A recent thread concerns the possibility of the knock sensor (KS) getting tripped inappropriately, before actual detonation is occurring, with a resulting reduction in performance due to the engine management system retarding the timing. The question came up of how to test the KS. If anyone is interested, here's a little inexpensive circuit which will flash an LED whenever the knock sensor is "tripped". Thus, you can check out the operation of the KS under actual operating conditions while driving the car. It may be useful to get a sense of under what conditions the KS starts getting tripped. + 9V battery o | 1.2K 10K | |-----\/\/\/--o--/\/\/\------o --- | | 4 /// | |----------| Gnd | 3| | |-------->| | + - | LM324 |---->(LED)--| 2| | 1 | From KS (+) >---------------->| | | |----------| | | 11 | o------------------| | --- /// Gnd Parts: 1 10K 1/4W resistor 5% 1 1.2K 1/4W resistor 5% 1 Any LED (a "superbright' is easier to see) 1 LM324 op-amp (Radio Shack) 1 9V battery All these parts are very common, and can be gotten at a Radio Shack. Total cost should be under $5. The battery will be the most expensive item. The numbers refer to pin numbers on the LM324. Unused pins are left unconnected. The circuit can be built on a piece of "perfboard" or similar (Radio Shack) or the parts can be simply glued onto a piece of plastic or something and the connections made by soldering thin insulated wires "point-to-point". The LM324 can be glued upside down on the plastic (dead-bug technique). On my XR4Ti the nominal voltage fed to the KS is about 2.5 volts. The two resistors will give about 1 volt to the LM324 at pin 3. Then, whenever the voltage on the knock sensor drops below 1 volt (KS activated), the LED will flash. To use, keep the gizmo with you in the car, and run a long wire to the (+) terminal of the KS. Any wire will do, can be small gauge. The two grounds (Gnd) of the circuit should be connected together and also connected to the chassis ground of the car. So, you'll have two wires coming off the circuit, one going to the KS, and the other going to chassis ground of the car. Now, while driving the LED will tell you when the KS is getting tripped. A "superbright" LED will be easier to see in the daytime. Disclaimer: I haven't built and used this circuit in my car yet. I _have_ built it on the bench and it worked there. If anyone wants to try it out, I'll be happy to help out if there are any questions. Please email me off-list. Thanks! Steve ------------------------------- Steve Roberts sroberts@sunstroke.sdsu.edu 619 454 5234, 619 454 7008 FAX ------------------------------- --------------BF2E8DA14636A8017AD28935-- From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 15:09:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13385 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:09:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13381 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:09:01 -0500 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13623 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:08:58 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com ([143.114.73.5]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with ESMTP id <0F1T00KDL7BT7D@lmco.com> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:26:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com [143.114.72.1]) by mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07599 for ; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:26:15 -0600 (CST) Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id NAA13035; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:26:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:26:14 -0600 From: Joe Boucher Subject: [Fwd: [M] Knock Sensor testor (longish)] To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Message-id: <363E0756.EC0560C6@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Here's a follow up: UPDATE: Since my earlier post, I built the tester, and tried it out on the car ('89XR4Ti 5sp). It seems to work correctly. To connect up to the knock sensor, I took an 8" length of 26 gauge insulated stranded wire. Any thin insulated wire would do. I pulled off the KS connector and inserted the stripped end of the wire into the (+) socket of the KS connector. The (+) side can be determined with a voltmeter and the ignition on. The (+) side will show about 2.5 volts. On my car the (+) KS wire seems to be white with a red stripe. I then pushed the connector back on, trapping the 8" wire in the connector to the KS (+) terminal. Then I ran a longer wire from the end of my 8" wire to the inside of the car. Inside the car I connected the circuit as per the previous post and attached the 9V battery. The LED came on, showing that the KS sensor terminal was below the 1V trip point of the circuit. I then turned on the ignition, and the LED went out, showing that the sensor wire was above the 1V trip point. I then started the car. I watched the LED while the car idled. Once in a while I saw it flicker as I briefly tapped the throttle, but mostly it stayed off. I then drove the car around on city streets, watching the LED. I saw sporadic flickers. Sometimes when accelerating the LED would flicker on more. I tried to get detonation by applying throttle at low RPM, but didn't hear any "pinging" and did not get much activity on the LED. My static timing is set at 13 BTDC. Anyway, the tester seems to indicate KS activity correctly. I found that using a "superbright" LED is required, because the flickers are very fast and especially in daylight a normal LED can't really be seen very well. I used a superbright green LED, but a red one would work fine also. Radio Shack has these. In any case, nighttime might be the best time to do this, and probably safer with someone riding along as well. If you thought your performance were being compromised by the KS "coming on" too soon, you could hook up the tester and see if at higher RPM's under load while accelerating the KS showed increased activity. This additional KS activity might be getting interpreted by the computer as detonation, and retarding the timing. Since we don't have access to the source code, we don't know how the computer is programmed to react to the KS. Maybe a lot of little KS signals are disregarded, and only if the KS comes on for longer periods of time is any action taken? Anyway, there is it for what it is/isn't worth. If anyone wants to try this tester and needs some help, I'll be happy to help. email off list please. Steve ------------------------------- Steve Roberts sroberts@sunstroke.sdsu.edu 619 454 5234, 619 454 7008 FAX ------------------------------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 15:16:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13624 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:16:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13620 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:16:03 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16209 for mail_from ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:02:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:02:44 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: Hunting idle Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If the elk is aged a bit AFTER you shoot and hang it, NOT before, this is what is best. Two or three year old cows are definitely the best eatin'. Agree completely with the smooth fine wine part!! (and/or single malt.) White tail venison NEEDS smoked, it's a waste of a real treat with elk meat! >No, No, No... >TIRES should be smoked; >Idle should be smooth like a fine wine... > >>From: "David A. Cooley" >>I prefer mine smoked > >>>From: Greg Hermann >>>>Hi Walter >>>>Hunting idle is fun. >>>Yeah, but elk meat tastes a whole lot better---- >>>--Greg >>>Beg to differ when aged the idle is much better. >>>Bruce >>> From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 15:17:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13689 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:17:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13685 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:17:45 -0500 Received: from pobox2.mot.com (pobox2.mot.com [129.188.137.195]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id OAA10908 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:19:43 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate2.mot.com from client pobox2.mot.com, sender marttj@pcmail1.csg.mot.com ) Received: from pcmail1.csg.mot.com (PCMAIL1.csg.mot.com [144.188.23.22]) by pobox2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with SMTP id OAA19673 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:17:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from pcmail1.csg.mot.com (telematics.css.mot.com [144.186.137.10]) by pcmail1.csg.mot.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA17964 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:17:31 -0600 Message-ID: <363E13A0.9DCEFADA@pcmail1.csg.mot.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 14:18:40 -0600 From: Thomas Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: MAF X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: <4288569a.363d6f96@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a 91 Bonneville with the Series I 3800. I would like to put the older larger MAF from a "3" or 3.8L V6 on my engine to increase airflow. Eventually add a turbocharger. The MAF I have now is the Hitachi, and has a small 25 mm air passage. It has a small 10 mm (approx) port to sensor air for the MAF itself. Can I swap these units? What sort of output does the MAF has? Is it a constant voltage that varies with airflow, or is it a higher frequency output? (should I drag out the O-Scope to view?) Thanks! Thomas Martin From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 16:27:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15616 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:27:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f204.hotmail.com [207.82.251.95]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA15598 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:26:22 -0500 Received: (qmail 4738 invoked by uid 0); 2 Nov 1998 21:25:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19981102212519.4737.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.217.140.22 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:25:18 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.217.140.22] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: O2 sensors at WOT? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:25:18 PST Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu List, I've heard that most ECU's go into an open-loop condition while under WOT. I've also heard this is because most O2 sensors read incorrectly under WOT conditions. Why is that? Does the increased gas flow cool the O2 sensor down too much or what? Is the decision by the ECU to go open loop - based on TPS alone or on (what) else?? Someone else said that a heated O2 sensor will respond to hydrocarbon levels if it is not warmed up properly. If this is true perhaps a poor man's gas analyzer could be constructed using one heated (to measure O2) and one unheated to measure hydrocarbons, etc??? Thanks! -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 16:38:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15921 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:38:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzserv.kemet.com (dmzserv.kemet.com [206.74.114.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15917 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:38:14 -0500 Received: from smtpgw.kemet.com ([10.1.2.45]) by dmzserv.kemet.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id 484 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:29:11 -0500 Received: by smtpgw.kemet.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 852566B0.007654F5 ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:32:29 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: KEMET From: "Mike Turner" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <852566B0.00765458.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:34:17 -0500 Subject: 165 Output Pin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know for sure which ecm connector pin is the cooling fan actuator for the 1227165? I have three manuals, all with different conflicting pinouts (D2, D12, C9,...???), and ecm which will not turn on the fan. I'd like to try to repair the bad ecm and thought someone might save me a few minutes of signal checking if they already knew the correct answer. Car is 86 vette. : ) From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 16:43:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16042 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:43:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16038 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:43:29 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-21.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.39]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA15843 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:43:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009101be06aa$478ecb20$27198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 1227746 ECM Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:45:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 4:06 PM Subject: 1227746 ECM >I found a 7746 ECM ( ACDW) at the local U-Pull- IT . The donor car was a >4.3L TBI 1987 Grand Prix this set up seems to be the same as a 1987 Astro >Van with a 7747 ECM are the ECM's plug and play ? You really need to get a wiring diagram out, and look. There are sometimes small but meaningful changes from ecm to ecm. They are not the same. In the passenger car versions they use a IAT. Also, the tables will be moved around some I beleive. If you want to tinker with a 747 you need to have a 747. Some of the advanced guys can play some games with adapations, but if your just starting out learn the baxics first. I would also appreciate >some help >With downloading Bin files, Can a PROM be burned from the data in the Bin's. When the correct corresponding parts are used, yes. >? > >Thanks > >Don > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 16:43:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16059 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:43:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pong.francomm.com (root@pong.francomm.com [208.9.129.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16055 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:43:48 -0500 Received: from gjcouse (dialup36maxa116.francomm.com [208.9.129.116]) by pong.francomm.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21406 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:48:21 -0500 From: " Cutlass IROC-SS" To: "Ohio-State. Edu" Subject: Digest Mode? Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:43:36 -0500 Message-ID: <000201be06a9$d88b4c80$748109d0@gjcouse.francomm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there a digest version for this mailing list? -----Regards, G.J.C Gary J. Couse Couse Customs Rt-1, Box-615 Bailey Road Purling, N.Y. 12470-9709 ICQ# 5209322 CC-IROC-SS 518-622-0376 mailto:gjcouse@francomm.com Couse Custom Cutlass, '86 CC-IROC-SS-#1 = "Quincy" http://members.tripod.com/~cousecustoms/ Join Oldsmobile G-Body Mailing List - http://cyberglyphs.com/gbody Once a member, post to: mailto:olds_gbody@listbot.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 16:52:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16347 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:52:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16343 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:52:33 -0500 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA05022; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:52:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com ([143.114.73.5]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with ESMTP id <0F1T00B57E3HPK@lmco.com>; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 14:52:30 -0700 (MST) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com [143.114.72.1]) by mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10205; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:52:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id PAA20924; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:52:25 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 15:52:25 -0600 From: Joe Boucher Subject: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , "MERKUR-OWNERS@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM" Message-id: <363E2999.24CA2E5C@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This sounds like the very best of jail house lawyering or Urban Myth crap, but it's worth a try!! THIS IS FOR USA ONLY I tried to pass this on to anyone I could think of. This procedure works in any state. Read it and try it, you have nothing to loose but the points in your license. If you get a speeding ticket or went through a red light or whatever the case may be, and you are going to get points on your license, then there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points. When you get your fine, send in the check to pay for it and if the fine is say $79, then make the check out for $82 or some small amount above the fine. The system will then have to send you back a check for the difference, but here is the trick! ---DO NOT CASH THE CHECK!! Throw it away! Points are not assessed to your license until all the financial transactions are complete. If you do not cash the check, then the transactions are not complete. However the system has gotten its money so it is happy and will not bother you any more. From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 16:55:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16407 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:55:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16393 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:54:59 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA09957 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:54:23 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:54:22 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? In-Reply-To: <19981102212519.4737.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Bill the arcstarter wrote: > List, > I've heard that most ECU's go into an open-loop condition while under > WOT. I've also heard this is because most O2 sensors read incorrectly > under WOT conditions. > Yes. Generally actually below wot, there are settings in the prom to control what tps at what rpm will go open loop. > Why is that? Does the increased gas flow cool the O2 sensor down too > much or what? > The O2 sensors are nonlinear, that is small changed in the output value can be actual big changs in the real system. > Is the decision by the ECU to go open loop - based on TPS alone or on > (what) else?? > Everything I am familiar with asys only TPS but differeent rpms take fdifferent TPS to go open loop. > Someone else said that a heated O2 sensor will respond to hydrocarbon > levels if it is not warmed up properly. If this is true perhaps a poor > man's gas analyzer could be constructed using one heated (to measure O2) > and one unheated to measure hydrocarbons, etc??? > No. What the report said (I read it) was that NO O2 sensor senses O2 at the temperatures that they operate at. They sense hydrocarbons only. The temperature required for them to sense O2 was much higher than the O2 sensor in a normal exhaust stream was supposed to be getting (heated, or unheated). So the claim was that O2 sensors sense hydrocarbons, which should really work much the same as if it senseed O2. That also might be why (at least at the rich end) that things go nonlinear, since it would be hard to detect more of what you already have alot of. > Thanks! > -Bill > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 17:35:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17264 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:35:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17260 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:35:05 -0500 From: JTesta1966@aol.com Received: from JTesta1966@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7UZMa29193 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1cb65e7.363e3331@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:33:21 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Digest Mode? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/2/98 4:51:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, gjcouse@francomm.com writes: << Is there a digest version for this mailing list? >> Yes, I believe the command is subscribe-digest GNTTYPE You can find out by sending mail to majordomo@gnttype.org with "help" in the body of the message Jim From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 17:36:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17295 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:36:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17291 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:36:43 -0500 From: JTesta1966@aol.com Received: from JTesta1966@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7JIDa02301 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:33:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <57824336.363e3344@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:33:40 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Digest Mode? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu oops! Wrong list! Sorry! Jim From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 17:50:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17632 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:50:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17628 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:50:58 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA10407 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:50:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv3-42.oshawa.idirect.com [207.136.121.170]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA11820 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:51:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001f01be06cc$4e314760$aa7988cf@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: Hunting idle Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 17:50:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Glad to see that the DIY gang has a healthy sense of humour!...... -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 1:36 PM Subject: RE: Hunting idle >If the elk is aged a bit AFTER you shoot and hang it, NOT before, this is >what is best. Two or three year old cows are definitely the best eatin'. >Agree completely with the smooth fine wine part!! (and/or single malt.) >White tail venison NEEDS smoked, it's a waste of a real treat with elk >meat! > >>No, No, No... >>TIRES should be smoked; >>Idle should be smooth like a fine wine... >> >>>From: "David A. Cooley" >>>I prefer mine smoked >> >>>>From: Greg Hermann >>>>>Hi Walter >>>>>Hunting idle is fun. >>>>Yeah, but elk meat tastes a whole lot better---- >>>>--Greg >>>>Beg to differ when aged the idle is much better. >>>>Bruce >>>> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 18:21:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18093 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:21:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from turing.une.edu.au (turing.une.edu.au [129.180.11.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18088 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:21:32 -0500 Received: (from bmarsh@localhost) by turing.une.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA01972; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:21:21 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:21:21 +1100 (EST) From: Benjamin Marsh To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , "MERKUR-OWNERS@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM" Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] In-Reply-To: <363E2999.24CA2E5C@lmtas.lmco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yeah but what happens in three years time when the infringement processing bureau gets an audit so they write off all bad transactions, including those ripped up cheques which then by default closes all transactions and adds all points to your license at once, too bad if there is enough there to lose your license, when if you had gotten the points when you were supposed to, three years ago, you would have them back by now and not lose your license... Ben On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Joe Boucher wrote: > This sounds like the very best of jail house lawyering or Urban Myth > crap, but it's worth a try!! > > THIS IS FOR USA ONLY > > I tried to pass this on to anyone I could think of. This procedure > works in > any state. Read it and try it, you have nothing to loose but the points > in > your license. If you get a speeding ticket or went through a red light > or > whatever the case may be, and you are going to get points on your > license, > then there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points. > > When you get your fine, send in the check to pay for it and if the fine > is > say $79, then make the check out for $82 or some small amount above the > fine. > > The system will then have to send you back a check for the difference, > but > here is the trick! ---DO NOT CASH THE CHECK!! Throw it away! > > Points are not assessed to your license until all the financial > transactions are complete. If you do not cash the check, then the > transactions are not complete. However the system has gotten its money > so > it is happy and will not bother you any more. > > > > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 18:42:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18481 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:42:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18477 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:42:42 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7GVFa18748 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:41:22 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:41:22 EST To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: TPS resistence Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I'm new to the list and I already have a question! THe question is : what resistence should a GM tps read at full throttle (turned @ 90 degrees)? The reason I ask is that I spent the whole afternoon trying to adapt and adjust a GM TPS to my throttle-body. The manual I have says it should read between .45 and .85 volts at idle. The problem I had was I couldnt get it in that range. I would move it slightly but it would jump from .2v to 1.0v. Also, It would read a different voltage every time the throttle came to its stop. Finally, I got it to read .55v, but when I gave it full throttle (90 degrees) it only read 1.98v instead of 4.5 - 5 v! Anyway, before I throw this TPS out and buy another one I want to be sure its not my wiring, ECM, rig, etc. by measuring the resistence directly at the TPS(and not volts thru the ECM) Thanks for any help, Ted PS Its a GM throttle shaft driven TPS (not the lever type) if that makes a difference. From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 19:26:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19318 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:26:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19314 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:26:42 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-223.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.223]) by mail.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA22013 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:26:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811030026.TAA22013@mail.lig> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:26:40 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: MAF In-Reply-To: <363E13A0.9DCEFADA@pcmail1.csg.mot.com> References: <4288569a.363d6f96@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thomas, The MAF is indeed a freq. generator. After looking at my 95 LeSabre Series I 3800, a bigger MAF isn't necessary and may cause driveability problems... I have my exhaust opened up to 2 1/2" dia and a gutted cat, no resonator and a Walker Ultra-Flow. At 5300 RPM and WOT in 1st gear, my MAF only registers 170Gm/Sec airflow... 255 would be max for the unit. If you were to go with a bigger MAF, you'd require a re-write of your MAF tables (Assuming it didn't measure the same exact freq per reading) to make it run right. For a turbocharger, contact Dave Buckshaw at EFIPERFORM@aol.com. Later, Dave At 02:18 PM 11/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >I have a 91 Bonneville with the Series I 3800. I would like to put the older >larger MAF from a "3" or 3.8L V6 on my engine to increase airflow. Eventually add >a turbocharger. > >The MAF I have now is the Hitachi, and has a small 25 mm air passage. It has a >small 10 mm (approx) port to sensor air for the MAF itself. > >Can I swap these units? What sort of output does the MAF has? Is it a constant >voltage that varies with airflow, or is it a higher frequency output? > >(should I drag out the O-Scope to view?) > >Thanks! >Thomas Martin > =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 19:27:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19326 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:27:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19322 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:27:18 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA02417 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:27:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811030027.SAA02417@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny7-11.ix.netcom.com(206.217.124.139) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002274; Mon Nov 2 18:25:46 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:37:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: where to find info Priority: normal In-reply-to: <004801be0650$a87d8020$580365cb@holden> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >The prom was laid out in a matrix of addresses of a specific word length. > >To program them you specified an address and the "value" or the word. > Every > >bit which was a 1, the programmer would blow the fuse. > > This is what I want to find out about have seen maps etc but no idea how to > read 'em > Any books recommended > need to be basic > I have seemed to learn the most from the data sheets, go to some semicond. manuf. web sites and down load. Hands on helps too. For basic check out basic stamp and there list. If you get a burner, it should have detailed instructions. alex From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 19:27:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19338 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:27:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19333 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:27:46 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA02414 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:27:13 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811030027.SAA02414@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny7-11.ix.netcom.com(206.217.124.139) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma002274; Mon Nov 2 18:25:44 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:37:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: O2 sensor Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199811012003.PAA04868@ch4.viperlink.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I was looking at some GM truck parts microfish, most models have leaded parts for military and export, did not see any racing #'s In these situations a little brain damage is ok. alex > Anyone know of 4-wire sensor that is preferred due to its resistance to lead > poisoning? Search of local parts store turned up several Bosch P/N's LSH > 22, 25 and 64. They all appear the same, except for lead length and > termination style. Are there any other differences? I heard the NTK used > for Fords is especially resistant. Where can I get these? > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 19:30:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19456 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:30:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19452 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:30:37 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-223.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.223]) by mail.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA28566 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:30:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811030030.TAA28566@mail.lig> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:30:36 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] In-Reply-To: <363E2999.24CA2E5C@lmtas.lmco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Be careful... Some states/counties/cities can be hard-ass enough to consider the extra money a bribe... Then you face a REALLY long jail sentence. How about traffic school? Takes away the points *LEGALLY* At 03:52 PM 11/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >This sounds like the very best of jail house lawyering or Urban Myth >crap, but it's worth a try!! > >THIS IS FOR USA ONLY > > I tried to pass this on to anyone I could think of. This procedure >works in >any state. Read it and try it, you have nothing to loose but the points >in >your license. If you get a speeding ticket or went through a red light >or >whatever the case may be, and you are going to get points on your >license, >then there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points. > > When you get your fine, send in the check to pay for it and if the fine >is >say $79, then make the check out for $82 or some small amount above the >fine. > > The system will then have to send you back a check for the difference, >but >here is the trick! ---DO NOT CASH THE CHECK!! Throw it away! > > Points are not assessed to your license until all the financial >transactions are complete. If you do not cash the check, then the >transactions are not complete. However the system has gotten its money >so >it is happy and will not bother you any more. > =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 19:34:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19577 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:34:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19573 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:34:00 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-37.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.106]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id TAA13561 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:33:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002801be06c2$1e13f8c0$6a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: TPS resistence Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:37:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Tedscj@aol.com To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 7:19 PM Subject: TPS resistence The TPS is not just a variable resistor. There are a couple components in there. +5 from ecm, dedicated groung to ecm, and sensor lead to ecm. Don't share grounds or power other than as shown in the book. Very careful if you need to bend the tang, to get the geometry right. Cheers Bruce >I'm new to the list and I already have a question! >THe question is : what resistence should a GM tps read at full throttle >(turned @ 90 degrees)? >The reason I ask is that I spent the whole afternoon trying to adapt and >adjust a GM TPS to my throttle-body. The manual I have says it should read >between .45 and .85 volts at idle. The problem I had was I couldnt get it in >that range. I would move it slightly but it would jump from .2v to 1.0v. >Also, It would read a different voltage every time the throttle came to its >stop. Finally, I got it to read .55v, but when I gave it full throttle (90 >degrees) it only read 1.98v instead of 4.5 - 5 v! >Anyway, before I throw this TPS out and buy another one I want to be sure its >not my wiring, ECM, rig, etc. by measuring the resistence directly at the >TPS(and not volts thru the ECM) >Thanks for any help, >Ted > >PS Its a GM throttle shaft driven TPS (not the lever type) if that makes a >difference. > From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 19:54:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19954 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:54:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19950 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:54:36 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp93.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.93]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA16781 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:51:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <006c01be06c4$7de57920$5d7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: GM Trouble codes, Help Please Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 16:54:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >1. What the heck is the EAS???? I can't find it documented >anywhere! Got me. The trouble code description in your shop manual should tell you, though. >2. Where can I find more info about Quad Data Module (QDM) >number 1? That's the "Quad Driver Module". It is the part of the ECM that actually controls outputs to such things as torque converter clutch, EGR valve, etc. There are several QDMs, each controlling four outputs (hence the "Quad"). Sections 6 and 8 of your shop manual should contain the information you are looking for, especially the pages devoted to those particular trouble codes. >3. I'm suspicious about the Vehicle Speed Sensor. The '95 >wiring harness connector didn't mate with the VSS on the >'96 transmission. I did wire them together without the plugs. >Are these different? That would probably explain the "4k pulses per mile" code you are getting. The 96 B-body VSS may have different signal outputs than the 95 F-body. Anyone know a way to >'repair' fouled/plugged/bad injectors???? A cleaning/blueprinting may take care of it unless they are way too far gone. I think it may be a pretty big task to get the OBDII engine to work well with an unmodified non-OBDII computer. I would suspect that many of the sensors and output devices would have different values between the two systems. Soren Rounds From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 21:41:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21463 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:41:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21459 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:41:33 -0500 Received: from malinda ([12.69.65.223]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with ESMTP id <19981103024121.ITDP1680@malinda> for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 02:41:21 +0000 Message-ID: <363E6D3C.E04F2D63@worldnet.att.net> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:41:00 -0500 From: Jason Weir X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19981102212519.4737.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bill the arcstarter wrote: > List, > I've heard that most ECU's go into an open-loop condition while under > > WOT. I've also heard this is because most O2 sensors read incorrectly > > under WOT conditions. My 7747 stays closed loop at WOT but it does shut off learn mode at WOT and during .80v and less TPS deceleration -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir --- Jeep Home Page mailto:jweir@att.net From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 21:53:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21651 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:53:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.clarityconnect.com (mail.clarityconnect.com [206.64.143.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21644 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:53:21 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (209.150.253.97) by mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:01:49 -0500 Message-ID: <363E9A4A.2C19@clarityconnect.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:53:14 -0800 From: Scot Sealander X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E-KIT (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: MAF References: <4288569a.363d6f96@aol.com> <363E13A0.9DCEFADA@pcmail1.csg.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thomas Martin wrote: > I have a 91 Bonneville with the Series I 3800. I would like to put the > older larger MAF from a "3" or 3.8L V6 on my engine to increase > airflow. Are you worried about the MAF's restriction? Or measurement ability? The '3' engine was NA wasn't it? That MAF probably has limited measurement ability. Never really looked at it's MAF tables. > Eventually add a turbocharger. Always fun. > The MAF I have now is the Hitachi, and has a small 25 mm air passage. > It has a small 10 mm (approx) port to sensor air for the MAF itself. > Can I swap these units? Not directly. With MAF table and code mods you could. Requires a lot of understanding. > What sort of output does the MAF has? It is a high freq MAF. With a range about 400 to 10k Hz or so. (From memory...) As I recall, the MAF tables max out at 170 gps. Most all the V-6 MAFs had similar peak airflows as I recall, except for the GN. Scot Sealander Sealand@clarityconnect.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 21:58:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21704 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:58:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21700 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:58:25 -0500 From: AJLegere@aol.com Received: from AJLegere@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7UAIa13873 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:56:54 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <5f961020.363e70f6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:56:54 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Will this '99 MAF work with a '165 ECM? I'm working on a 434 SBC (very over stroked 400 SBC). I'm concerned with the flow capaciity or ultimately the pressure drop accross the existing MAF which came from a donor '87 350 Firebird. Is the '165 a voltage or frequency output MAF? Any suggestions? From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 22:33:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA22299 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:33:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA22295 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:33:26 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.5] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA15760 for mail_from ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:20:05 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:20:05 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: MAF Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Thomas, >The MAF is indeed a freq. generator. After looking at my 95 LeSabre Series >I 3800, a bigger MAF isn't necessary and may cause driveability problems... > I have my exhaust opened up to 2 1/2" dia and a gutted cat, no resonator >and a Walker Ultra-Flow. At 5300 RPM and WOT in 1st gear, my MAF only >registers 170Gm/Sec airflow... 255 would be max for the unit. If you were >to go with a bigger MAF, you'd require a re-write of your MAF tables >(Assuming it didn't measure the same exact freq per reading) to make it run >right. >For a turbocharger, contact Dave Buckshaw at EFIPERFORM@aol.com. >Later, >Dave > 170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which works out to 84% or so VE--on the low side, which indicates a lot of restriction from the MAF! If the thing only has a 25 mm diameter throat, your MAP at WOT can only get up to about 12.0 or 12.5 psia. (Basically , the MAF is throttling the engine!) Going to a much bigger MAF could definitely help things, to the tune of another 6 to 12% power at the top end. Doesn't much matter where you put corks in a system, things don't really get freed up until you pull out the last cork. No way a 25 mm orifice is NOT a serious CORK on a 3.8 l. engine---with one carb barrel per cylinder (Webers) SIX 30 mm venturis would be pretty restrictive on a 3.8 l. 6 cyl.--I once built a Jag 4.2 (6) which ran FINE with SIX 42 (!) mm chokes (one in each of the six bores of its 3 (48 mm throttle) Webers). If one cannot run a MAF with a FAR bigger hole in it than this one (like at least 60 mm) without getting "driveability problems", it is time to either throw the MAF's away and go with MAP injection, or go back to (GOOD) carbs!!!> Regards, Greg > >At 02:18 PM 11/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >>I have a 91 Bonneville with the Series I 3800. I would like to put the older >>larger MAF from a "3" or 3.8L V6 on my engine to increase airflow. >Eventually add >>a turbocharger. >> >>The MAF I have now is the Hitachi, and has a small 25 mm air passage. It >has a >>small 10 mm (approx) port to sensor air for the MAF itself. >> >>Can I swap these units? What sort of output does the MAF has? Is it a >constant >>voltage that varies with airflow, or is it a higher frequency output? >> >>(should I drag out the O-Scope to view?) >> >>Thanks! >>Thomas Martin >> >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net > Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. >=========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 23:17:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22806 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:17:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22802 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:17:11 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-9.mtco.com [206.69.130.9]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA20779 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:17:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <363E840C.D486B23E@mtco.com> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:18:20 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: where to find info References: <199811030027.SAA02417@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: > For basic check out basic stamp and there list. What/where is basic stamp??? Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 23:43:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA23342 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:43:08 -0500 Received: from monet.artisan.calpoly.edu (mkent@monet.artisan.calpoly.edu [129.65.60.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23338 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:43:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (mkent@localhost) by monet.artisan.calpoly.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA10141 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:43:04 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: monet.artisan.calpoly.edu: mkent owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:43:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Kent X-Sender: mkent@monet.artisan.calpoly.edu To: diy_efi list Subject: loud motor = happy motor? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu While fiddling around with my ignition timing maps I've noted a significant increase in the induction noise as I bring the timing up. Over 3000r's, past the stock torque peak, the motor seems pretty rattle-proof and I'm wondering if the timing is actually over advanced, causing work to be done against the piston... Timing at light load is up to 55 deg and WOT is no more than 40, usually more like 34. thanx, MK From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 23:50:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA23454 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:50:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23449 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:50:03 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp93.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.93]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01244 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:46:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002d01be06e5$62895f40$5d7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: MAF Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:49:47 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which >works out to 84% or so VE--on the low side, which indicates a lot of >restriction from the MAF! If the thing only has a 25 mm diameter throat, >your MAP at WOT can only get up to about 12.0 or 12.5 psia. (Basically , >the MAF is throttling the engine!) First of all, isn't the "95 3800 rated at about 205 HP? Second, after working in a Buick garage for 4 years, I am pretty sure that MAF sensor is not 25 mm in diameter! I would say that any intake restrictions are mainly the air filter box and intake runners. Soren Rounds From diy_efi-owner Mon Nov 2 23:59:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA23704 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:59:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23700 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:59:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (chickens@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.8) with SMTP id WAA15452 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:59:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:59:03 -0600 (CST) From: Jake Sternberg X-Sender: chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: TPS sensor compatibility??? In-Reply-To: <199811030028.TAA19350@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm trying to re-construct a 1991 GMC 2500 pickup with TBI. The intake/TBI setup i bought for it (used) has the older "lever type" TPS with the three-pins in a row connector, same style as the MAP sensor connector (they look the same). The harness i got from the dealer has the new-style (shaft sticks into it) TPS with the three little pins in triangle formation in a little round connector. I looked through two service manuals (for vehicles with each type of sensor) and wired on a connector for the kind of TPS I have alongside the small connector. the pins are ABC on both connectors but the ref/signal/return pins were different. I wired the new connector up properly as far as which signal goes to which, but i need to know if the two sensors are equivalent/compatible. If the ECM is designed for the newer style and i hook it up to the old style, will it work? The old style has slotted screw holes for adjustment and the new style TPS can't be adjusted. Does anyone know? thanks, -jake reply to: chickens@mail.utexas.edu From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 00:17:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA23975 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:17:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ha1.rdc1.az.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.az.home.com [24.1.240.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA23966 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:17:28 -0500 Received: from beast ([24.1.193.136]) by ha1.rdc1.az.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA16033 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:17:25 -0800 From: "Barry E. King" To: Subject: RE: MAF Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:18:55 -0700 Message-ID: <000001be06e9$74392000$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have an 83mm ProM airmeter in a 3.0L Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 (twin turbo). It is supposedly calibrated for 1000 cfm. I also have larger blowers (404 cfm @15 psi each) but drivability (primarily off boost of course) is not an issue. 20 psi boost performance is astounding. The stock MAS was much much smaller and with the new one I am sure that other areas are now the restriction. I would think that if this 3.8 will ultimately see a turbo a larger MAF is doable. 75mm-77mm is being done on 2.0L DSMs mind you they are running much higher boost. The trick is being able to tune for it. I am using the TRE MASC for this purpose http://www.teamrip.com. Works great so far. The MASC comes in two flavors, just the computer (adjusts frequency of the input signal from the factory MAS) or computer + ProM airmeter. In the latter configuration it converts the voltage from the ProM to a frequency the stock ECU can understand and adjusts the frequency to affect mixture changes. Regards, Barry Not affililated with TRE other than as a customer ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > Hermann > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 8:20 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: MAF > 170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which > works out to 84% or so VE--on the low side, which indicates a lot of > restriction from the MAF! If the thing only has a 25 mm diameter throat, > your MAP at WOT can only get up to about 12.0 or 12.5 psia. (Basically , > the MAF is throttling the engine!) Going to a much bigger MAF could > definitely help things, to the tune of another 6 to 12% power at the top > end. Doesn't much matter where you put corks in a system, things don't > really get freed up until you pull out the last cork. No way a 25 mm > orifice is NOT a serious CORK on a 3.8 l. engine---with one carb > barrel per > cylinder (Webers) SIX 30 mm venturis would be pretty restrictive on a 3.8 > l. 6 cyl.--I once built a Jag 4.2 (6) which ran FINE with SIX 42 (!) mm > chokes (one in each of the six bores of its 3 (48 mm throttle) Webers). If > one cannot run a MAF with a FAR bigger hole in it than this one (like at > least 60 mm) without getting "driveability problems", it is time to either > throw the MAF's away and go with MAP injection, or go back to (GOOD) > carbs!!!> > > Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 00:21:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24101 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:21:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24097 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:21:28 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-27.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.45]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id AAA09443 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:21:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a601be06ea$44f0d3a0$52198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:24:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Michael Kent To: diy_efi list Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:09 AM Subject: loud motor = happy motor? Such amounts of timing on a gas engine can really be hard on ring lands and headgaskets, rod bearings. Bruce Nice long set of velocity stacks on em + we called em cop callers. >While fiddling around with my ignition timing maps I've noted a >significant increase in the induction noise as I bring the timing up. >Over 3000r's, past the stock torque peak, the motor seems pretty >rattle-proof and I'm wondering if the timing is actually over advanced, >causing work to be done against the piston... > >Timing at light load is up to 55 deg and WOT is no more than 40, >usually more like 34. > >thanx, > >MK > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 00:25:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24205 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:25:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24200 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:25:09 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-27.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.45]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id AAA11156 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:24:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00ad01be06ea$bff87e40$52198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: EFI Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:28:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: AJLegere@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 10:57 PM Subject: Re: EFI >Will this '99 MAF work with a '165 ECM? Might be a whole lot less work to just change over to a 90-92 MAP. Could go MAP with the 165 using the aussie 808 info.. Bruce >I'm working on a 434 SBC (very over stroked 400 SBC). I'm concerned with the >flow capaciity or ultimately the pressure drop accross the existing MAF which >came from a donor '87 350 Firebird. >Is the '165 a voltage or frequency output MAF? > >Any suggestions? > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 00:31:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24382 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:31:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24378 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:31:21 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id VAA34558; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:31:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 21:31:16 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] In-Reply-To: <199811030030.TAA28566@mail.lig> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, David A. Cooley wrote: > Be careful... Some states/counties/cities can be hard-ass enough to > consider the extra money a bribe... Then you face a REALLY long jail > sentence. How about traffic school? Takes away the points *LEGALLY* > > Pretty unlikely scenario, IMO. Dont forget, the gummint operates on the expectation that people are at least as stupid as the gummint, so they would hardly expect someone to be able to accomplish a task like this logically. They are stupid, but not so stupid as to alienate their likely supporters... From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 00:35:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA24482 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:35:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24478 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:35:15 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-27.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.45]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id AAA16822 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:34:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c701be06ec$31e089c0$52198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: TPS sensor compatibility??? Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:38:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Jake Sternberg To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:30 AM Subject: TPS sensor compatibility??? Unless there is a three style I don't know about they will work. Bruce Easy check .4v idle >4.2v WOT should about do it. >I'm trying to re-construct a 1991 GMC 2500 pickup with TBI. > >The intake/TBI setup i bought for it (used) has the older >"lever type" TPS with the three-pins in a row connector, >same style as the MAP sensor connector (they look the same). > >The harness i got from the dealer has the new-style (shaft >sticks into it) TPS with the three little pins in triangle >formation in a little round connector. > >I looked through two service manuals (for vehicles with each >type of sensor) and wired on a connector for the kind of TPS >I have alongside the small connector. the pins are ABC on >both connectors but the ref/signal/return pins were different. > >I wired the new connector up properly as far as which signal >goes to which, but i need to know if the two sensors are >equivalent/compatible. If the ECM is designed for the newer >style and i hook it up to the old style, will it work? >The old style has slotted screw holes for adjustment and >the new style TPS can't be adjusted. Does anyone know? > >thanks, >-jake >reply to: chickens@mail.utexas.edu > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 01:02:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25078 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:02:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [207.201.33.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25074 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:02:12 -0500 Received: from default (ttyD5.redding.snowcrest.net [209.148.36.6]) by snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA28843 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:02:07 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19981102215939.00b45c00@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:59:39 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: 165 Output Pin In-Reply-To: <852566B0.00765458.00@smtpgw.kemet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 04:34 PM 11/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >Does anyone know for sure which ecm connector pin is the cooling fan >actuator for the 1227165? I have three manuals, all with different >conflicting pinouts (D2, D12, C9,...???), and ecm which will not turn on >the fan. I'd like to try to repair the bad ecm and thought someone might >save me a few minutes of signal checking if they already knew the correct >answer. Car is 86 vette. : ) > > >Hi 86 Camaro has fan on D2 Vance From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 01:21:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25496 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:21:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cc00ms.unity.ncsu.edu (cc00ms.unity.ncsu.edu [152.1.1.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25492 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:21:52 -0500 Received: from eos.ncsu.edu (user-38ld96q.dialup.mindspring.com [209.86.164.218]) by cc00ms.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.4/US19Dec96) with ESMTP id BAA19281 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:21:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <363EA06D.4F7EBEF1@eos.ncsu.edu> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 01:19:25 -0500 From: Duc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PIC Questions References: <199811021705.JAA21972@mail.wgn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Probably want to look into a micro controler that has much of that built in. Take a look at Motorola's 68HC11 or a 68HC705 micro or National Semi's Cops processor line. They have many additional drivers/interface chips that allow easy intergration of those functions without a rat's nest of wireing. Derek Catterfeld Sandy wrote: > I have a questions on that cabapilites of the PIC line of processors, here > is what I'm looking to do hardware wise, might you think it can be done > with a PIC and some additional hardware. > > LCD Display (probabally 4 bit interface) > RS232 Interface > 16 Outputs (via 2 74HC595's) > 8 Inputs (via 74HC165) > Input for a rotary encoder (2 inputs) > 2K of Data Storage User Programmable > (Maybe 93C86 or 24C16 Serial EEPROM) > > What might I be looking at as far as PIC part. Looks like 3 serial devices, > and 2 Input pins, and 2 I/O for RS/232. Is a configuration like this > possible, comments etc. > > Thanks, Sandy From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 01:29:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA25609 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:29:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA25605 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:29:07 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du187-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.187]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA28648 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:29:03 -0800 Message-Id: <199811030629.WAA28648@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 22:32:47 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <363EA06D.4F7EBEF1@eos.ncsu.edu> References: <199811021705.JAA21972@mail.wgn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. Just not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several PIC's have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. Sandy At 01:19 AM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >Probably want to look into a micro controler that has much of that built in. >Take a look at Motorola's 68HC11 or a 68HC705 micro or National Semi's Cops >processor line. They have many additional drivers/interface chips that allow >easy intergration of those functions without a rat's nest of wireing. > >Derek Catterfeld > >Sandy wrote: > >> I have a questions on that cabapilites of the PIC line of processors, here >> is what I'm looking to do hardware wise, might you think it can be done >> with a PIC and some additional hardware. >> >> LCD Display (probabally 4 bit interface) >> RS232 Interface >> 16 Outputs (via 2 74HC595's) >> 8 Inputs (via 74HC165) >> Input for a rotary encoder (2 inputs) >> 2K of Data Storage User Programmable >> (Maybe 93C86 or 24C16 Serial EEPROM) >> >> What might I be looking at as far as PIC part. Looks like 3 serial devices, >> and 2 Input pins, and 2 I/O for RS/232. Is a configuration like this >> possible, comments etc. >> >> Thanks, Sandy > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 02:52:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA27102 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 02:52:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (vehicle.ME.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.125.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA27098 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 02:52:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (markw@localhost) by vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/2.7) with SMTP id XAA28450 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:52:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:52:10 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Wilcutts To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? In-Reply-To: <19981102212519.4737.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: x-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Bill the arcstarter wrote: > I've heard that most ECU's go into an open-loop condition while under > WOT. I've also heard this is because most O2 sensors read incorrectly > under WOT conditions. > > Why is that? Does the increased gas flow cool the O2 sensor down too > much or what? Might be because WOT enrichment pegs the O2 sensor to the rich side. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 03:20:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA27383 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:20:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA27379 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:20:20 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA07011 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:20:19 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id AAA10227 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:20:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811030820.AAA10227@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: PIC Questions To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:20:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199811030629.WAA28648@mail.wgn.net> from "Sandy" at Nov 2, 98 10:32:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. Just > not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several PIC's > have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!). I have a PIC16C73 based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit chip instead. I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler macro capability is good - I should post the code). Used the interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting since this feature is buggy on the 16C73. Picked up a couple of duty cycles using the capture inputs... Orin. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 03:59:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA27816 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:59:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from repop1.jps.net (repop1.jps.net [209.63.224.238]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA27812 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:59:02 -0500 Received: from whatname (208-25-50-49.stk.jps.net [208.25.50.49]) by repop1.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA09489 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:59:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363EC580.3B6A@jps.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 00:57:36 -0800 From: "jesse o'buzz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: New Member! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu i'd like to say 'hello' from modesto ca and i look forward to being on this list! my goal is to change the fuel injection [Bosch CIS] on my volvo turbo to a GM sunbird turbo EFI...any ideas send a line! -- -jesse o'buzz 1982 Volvo Estate GLT Cut muffler off / Air Box Mod Electric Fan / lowered Alarm / poly swaybar bushings Alpine Coax,2x10"JL subs, Kenwood cd & 3 Kenwood amps 924 KYB rear Shocks [shorter] --- parts that i have, not on car --- Intercooler Bilsteins IPD sport valved [need to be rebuilt] IPD lowering Springs 16x7 BBS wheels / IPF driving lights 740 intake / 740 CBV Intercooler / SAAB APC Grant Aero body kit Stainless steel brake lines '79GT Braces / More Stereo Equip Side marker lights [AUDI] other stuff that i need to dig out From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 04:02:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA27839 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:02:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from repop2.jps.net (repop2.jps.net [209.63.224.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA27834 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:02:21 -0500 Received: from whatname (208-25-50-49.stk.jps.net [208.25.50.49]) by repop2.jps.net (8.9.0/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA08207 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:02:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363EC647.3646@jps.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 01:00:55 -0800 From: "jesse o'buzz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu hello, well i'd sure love it if someone would send me info on the turbo sunbird ecm and wiring diagrams [or what-ever] i'd also like to know if this car has a crank/cam postition sensor? and sensor locations and bar on the MAP sensor, the throttle position resistance at WOT and other info needed to transfer this ECM into my volvo [great car, can't stand the CIS fuel injection!] -- -jesse o'buzz 1982 Volvo Estate GLT Cut muffler off / Air Box Mod Electric Fan / lowered Alarm / poly swaybar bushings Alpine Coax,2x10"JL subs, Kenwood cd & 3 Kenwood amps 924 KYB rear Shocks [shorter] --- parts that i have, not on car --- Intercooler Bilsteins IPD sport valved [need to be rebuilt] IPD lowering Springs 16x7 BBS wheels / IPF driving lights 740 intake / 740 CBV Intercooler / SAAB APC Grant Aero body kit Stainless steel brake lines '79GT Braces / More Stereo Equip Side marker lights [AUDI] other stuff that i need to dig out From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 04:25:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28147 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:25:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA28143 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:25:43 -0500 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p21.scotland.net [148.176.232.21]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26746 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:25:37 GMT Message-ID: <363EC6F4.509C6651@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:03:48 +0000 From: am018 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu As a genral rule as taught to me by my grandfather who was setting ignitions by ear at the start of this century an over advanced ignition always sounds more powerfull -- this could be partially explained (I think) by the fact that it will pick up revs more quickly when reved out of gear. On few cars I have come across (Lotus Elans which had only 20 crank degrees of mechanical advance) retarded igntion has caused pinking ---- I suspect due to hot spots forming from excess rejected heat. Michael Kent wrote: > While fiddling around with my ignition timing maps I've noted a > significant increase in the induction noise as I bring the timing up. > Over 3000r's, past the stock torque peak, the motor seems pretty > rattle-proof and I'm wondering if the timing is actually over advanced, > causing work to be done against the piston... > > Timing at light load is up to 55 deg and WOT is no more than 40, > usually more like 34. > > thanx, > > MK From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 04:37:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:37:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.17.224.215]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA28338 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:37:30 -0500 Received: (qmail 8484 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 09:37:25 -0000 Received: from modem55-tar-isp-1.one.net.au (HELO holden) (203.101.3.119) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 09:37:25 -0000 Message-ID: <008d01be067a$42814f20$770365cb@holden> From: "Geoff & Sue Richards" To: "Diy_Efi" Subject: Diacom Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:27:20 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone have url for Diacom please Thanks Geoff From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 04:37:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28348 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:37:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.17.224.215]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id EAA28344 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:37:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 8502 invoked from network); 3 Nov 1998 09:37:30 -0000 Received: from modem55-tar-isp-1.one.net.au (HELO holden) (203.101.3.119) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 09:37:30 -0000 Message-ID: <008f01be067a$457c3fa0$770365cb@holden> From: "Geoff & Sue Richards" To: "Diy_Efi" Subject: BEGINNER HELP Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:01:31 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu hello maybe I been askin' wrong questions to learn 'bout proms I got prom in my hand comes from same vehicle as mine (Australian) What tools do I need to read what's in this? What tools do I need to modify this? the prom I have spare was replaced in service 'cause of a standard DTC under warranty so I scored it PCM No 16176424 If I can just have a look inside this I'll have a starting point TIA Geoff From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 04:40:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA28404 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:40:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.65.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA28399 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:40:25 -0500 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p30.scotland.net [148.176.232.30]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA27192 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:40:20 GMT Message-ID: <363ECA36.E0A46D1B@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 09:17:42 +0000 From: am018 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? References: <00a601be06ea$44f0d3a0$52198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I was always told to regard 43 crank degrees as the absolute maxiumim advance for the same reasons. Andy MacF From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 06:00:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA29597 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:00:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.sun.ac.za (mail.sun.ac.za [146.232.128.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA29588 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:00:13 -0500 Received: from sed.sun.ac.za ([146.232.144.12]) by mail.sun.ac.za with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu id 0zaeBM-00026X-00; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:59:28 +0200 Received: from SUN_SED/SpoolDir by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 3 Nov 98 12:59:36 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by SUN_SED (Mercury 1.32); 3 Nov 98 12:59:25 +0200 Received: from halmar.sed.sun.ac.za (146.232.146.112) by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 3 Nov 98 12:59:17 +0200 Received: by halmar.sed.sun.ac.za with Microsoft Mail id <01BE0729.CD210760@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:59:32 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE0729.CD210760@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za> From: Carlo Putter To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Diacom Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:59:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE0729.CD2A2F20" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE0729.CD2A2F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do not have the address, but am also interested, more so in the = physical interface module between the car and the PC serial port. Does = anybody have a handdrawn schematic?? -----Original Message----- From: Geoff & Sue Richards [SMTP:geoffsue@one.net.au] Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 4:27 PM To: Diy_Efi Subject: Diacom Anyone have url for Diacom please Thanks Geoff ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE0729.CD2A2F20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiEKAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAEAIAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVk dQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5v aGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAnZGl5X2VmaUBlZmkz MzIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOkRJWV9FRklARUZJMzMyLkVO Ry5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZp MzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAIB918BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QC AAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAul4 AQSAAQALAAAAUkU6IERpYWNvbQA+AwEFgAMADgAAAM4HCwADAAwAOwAfAAIASwEBIIADAA4AAADO BwsAAwAMADgAHwACAEgBAQmAAQAhAAAARkYxOTA4OUNGQjcyRDIxMUJFNDcwMDAwRTgyRTExMUEA HQcBA5AGACQFAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMA NgAAAAAAQAA5AKBe8AgZB74BHgBwAAEAAAALAAAAUkU6IERpYWNvbQAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb4H GQjfnAgaAHL7EdK+RwAA6C4RGgAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABjcHV0 dGVyQHNlZC5zdW4uYWMuemEAAAADAAYQYwE5FgMABxAyAQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASURPTk9USEFW RVRIRUFERFJFU1MsQlVUQU1BTFNPSU5URVJFU1RFRCxNT1JFU09JTlRIRVBIWVNJQ0FMSU5URVJG QUNFTU9EVUxFQkVUV0VFTlRIRUNBUkFORFRIRVBDU0VSSQAAAAACAQkQAQAAABECAAANAgAA5AIA AExaRnWKCvEsdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA72cHJxMg/2Jn0KgAjIIDsJ bzI1ZjUCgAqBdWMAUAsDYwMAQQtgbmcxMDMzAQumIEkgZG8gbgZvBUAPgHZlIHRoMRcgYWRkCXAE ECwgJGJ1BUBhbRdwbHO7FpALgHQEkAeQGPBkF/AbBGAJcCAYoxczcGh57QCQYwdAGMRmANAXIARh 1HVsFyBiD8B3CeEXM5ca0AXAAHBkFzNQQxnQCwZxGuFwCREuIERvSweRAHB5BuBkeRbkYecW4R0w F6BhdwOgBPAXUOUAwHQawD8/CqIKhAqE4QswbGkzNgFAFRABQBcRQBbABZB0EIQxNiBqLSPyTwUQ ZwuAGuFN8RfBYWdlI/MhNiMEItGDCxMjBmktMTQ0AUBxIlAxODABQAzQJ5NiVCBGA2E6DINiD+BH 5GVvASAgJgYAClAH8AsawA+BZAQgW1NNVKxQOiUgKdFzClBAAiCMZS4sAB5wYXVdITUvKMAGYAIw KSdNAiBkYXJ5F/BObxcQBtAEkCAEMDIX8DE5OTggUDQ6MjcdkE0sp1SCbyknRGl5X0UnYPEsqHVi aiMxMMkA0ANw3yWfJqoiVAu2IUNBHwAr8f8W5AhwAyACEAXAM1QacBvw1mEPsCE0VB/haw9AIUMX KbMhOhIBADswAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMOAmVJ0YB74BQAAIMOAmVJ0Y B74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAA CwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAR hQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA AEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAA AAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAA UkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAADcD ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE0729.CD2A2F20-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 06:06:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA29662 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:06:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from MAIL2 (mail2.bip.net [195.242.48.85]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA29658 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:06:49 -0500 Received: from Rolle.telia.com - 212.209.8.77 by mail.bip.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:06:31 +0100 From: "Roland Johansson" To: Subject: SV: PIC Questions Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:03:23 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <0400931061103b8MAIL2@mail.bip.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Should be interesting if it is possible to get the codes for lcd driver. I'm recently started to build an add-on-fueler to begin with and don't want a pc for programming if it doesn't need. Could be nice to programm it in car with a few buttons and a lcd. Roland Johansson Scirocco 1,6l TIC -82 Http://hem.passagen.se/toker scirocco@mail.bip.net > BTW: I have working code for driving LCD displays (4-bit)... unlike the > Microchip App note code which usually doesn't work. > > Orin. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 06:50:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA30104 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:50:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA30100 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:50:16 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-33.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.33]) by mail.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA23048 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:50:13 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811031150.GAA23048@mail.lig> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 06:50:13 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: MAF In-Reply-To: <002d01be06e5$62895f40$5d7889d0@soren> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:49 PM 11/2/98 -0800, you wrote: > > First of all, isn't the "95 3800 rated at about 205 HP? Second, after >working in a Buick garage for 4 years, I am pretty sure that MAF sensor is >not 25 mm in diameter! I would say that any intake restrictions are mainly >the air filter box and intake runners. Mine's rated 170 HP... 95 LeSabre Vin L I thought about it... 25mm is 1 inch... Never seen a MAF that small! =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 07:40:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA30573 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:40:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA30569 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:40:20 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7QQYa07909 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:39:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8103f59.363ef97d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:39:25 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Jesse, Ya probably wanna check out syty.org (download section) and get Richard's PromGrammer software. It is specifice to the Turbo sunbird, Syclone & Typhoon... The above cars use a two bar sensor, but syty list members have been debugging a 3 bar chip that looks encouraging, if you like >16 psi.. You didn't mention an interrcooler. HTH Mike V. > well i'd sure love it if someone would send me info on the turbo > sunbird ecm and wiring diagrams [or what-ever] i'd also like to know if > this car has a crank/cam postition sensor? and sensor locations and bar > on the MAP sensor, the throttle position resistance at WOT and other > info needed to transfer this ECM into my volvo [great car, can't stand > the CIS fuel injection!] From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 08:18:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA30953 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:18:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ewd-web.ellisonwindow.com (pc2.ellisonwindow.com [209.193.145.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30949 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:18:24 -0500 Received: from hyperreal.org ([209.193.145.8]) by ewd-web.ellisonwindow.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 103-49079U100L100S0) with ESMTP id AAA103 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:20:03 -0500 Message-ID: <363F00DC.ABACFFC2@hyperreal.org> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:10:52 -0500 From: Francois Dion X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: MAF References: <002d01be06e5$62895f40$5d7889d0@soren> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu soren wrote: > >170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which > >works out to 84% or so VE--on the low side, which indicates a lot of > >restriction from the MAF! If the thing only has a 25 mm diameter throat, > >your MAP at WOT can only get up to about 12.0 or 12.5 psia. (Basically , > >the MAF is throttling the engine!) > > First of all, isn't the "95 3800 rated at about 205 HP? Second, after > working in a Buick garage for 4 years, I am pretty sure that MAF sensor is > not 25 mm in diameter! He prolly meant 25mm radius... 50mm sounds about right on a car putting around 200hp. Ciao, Francois Dion (francois@hyperreal.org) -- Member: FLU #1722, PCNA http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/zagato/101/launch.html Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Lancia, Peugeot, Volvo, Solex From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 08:19:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA30968 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:19:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30964 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:19:50 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-3.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.72]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id IAA13776 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:19:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002601be072d$186445e0$48198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: BEGINNER HELP Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:23:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Geoff & Sue Richards To: Diy_Efi Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 6:01 AM Subject: BEGINNER HELP You need a prom editor "burner", with that then once you find out what chip you have you can read it into a file. In binfile will look like something like 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 0000 00 BD49 43 69 82 19 58 37 97 AA BD EF0F BB CC 0001 0002 There's mor on that in the archives in programming 101 Cheers Bruce >maybe I been askin' wrong questions to learn 'bout proms >I got prom in my hand comes from same vehicle as mine (Australian) >What tools do I need to read what's in this? >What tools do I need to modify this? >the prom I have spare was replaced in service 'cause of a standard DTC >under warranty so I scored it PCM No 16176424 >If I can just have a look inside this I'll have a starting point >TIA >Geoff > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 08:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA31151 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:31:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA31147 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:31:05 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-3.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.72]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id IAA22816 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:30:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005e01be072e$ad218de0$48198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?! Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:34:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: jesse o'buzz To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 4:32 AM Subject: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?! > well i'd sure love it if someone would send me info on the turbo >sunbird ecm and wiring diagrams [or what-ever] i'd also like to know if >this car has a crank/cam postition sensor? Use the 1227749 gm ecm The programing info you want is at www.syty.com or org I get them mixed up. Uses a Dissy, diagrams are at 332 FTP. and sensor locations and bar >on the MAP (2 some folks working on 3) sensor, the throttle position resistance at WOT (not resistance voltage) and other >info needed to transfer this ECM into my volvo [great car, can't stand >the CIS fuel injection!] >-- >-jesse o'buzz > >1982 Volvo Estate GLT > Cut muffler off / Air Box Mod > Electric Fan / lowered > Alarm / poly swaybar bushings > Alpine Coax,2x10"JL subs, Kenwood cd & 3 Kenwood amps > 924 KYB rear Shocks [shorter] > --- parts that i have, not on car --- > Intercooler > Bilsteins IPD sport valved [need to be rebuilt] > IPD lowering Springs > 16x7 BBS wheels / IPF driving lights > 740 intake / 740 CBV > Intercooler / SAAB APC > Grant Aero body kit > Stainless steel brake lines > '79GT Braces / More Stereo Equip > Side marker lights [AUDI] > other stuff that i need to dig out > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 08:43:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA31387 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:43:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA31383 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:43:37 -0500 Received: from pii500 ([12.79.160.38]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP id <19981103134305.YMWD9725@pii500> for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:43:05 +0000 Message-ID: <363F0884.283F@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:43:32 -0500 From: "ron.boley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: where to find info References: <004801be0650$a87d8020$580365cb@holden> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Geoff, There are a few problems that you need to surmount to get at your data tables. The location of data (Tables) in a EEPROM, EPROM or FLASH device is dependent on the designer of the controller. While these devices have address lines (the number varies with the device size: 2 to n power) engineers do not have to use them sequentially (A0, A1, A2, A3...). Some may break the device into sections to keep their code or functionality seperate. You'll have to located the data sheets for the device(s) that you are trying to read. I would suspect that these are have been manufactured in bulk for the controller manufacturer and have their part numbers and identification logo'd on them. Makes it hard to know what you've got... I would initially assume that the controller designer used the EEPROM/EPROM/FLASH device in a logical fashion so there are no partitions or segments. Then you'd need to dump the contents and look it over hoping to find sections/data that made sense to you. Overall its not intuitive but a big guessing game. Pays to get assistance from those who have been there before. Ron Geoff & Sue Richards wrote: > > > > >The prom was laid out in a matrix of addresses of a specific word length. > >To program them you specified an address and the "value" or the word. > Every > >bit which was a 1, the programmer would blow the fuse. > > This is what I want to find out about have seen maps etc but no idea how to > read 'em > Any books recommended > need to be basic > > >These were very cheap compared to EPROMS but were definitely one shot > >devices. Programming changes required new PROM chips. Hope that helps. > Cheers > Geoff From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 08:47:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA31430 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:47:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sunflower.com (dagda.sunflower.com [24.124.0.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA31426 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:47:33 -0500 Received: from CTX (dv026s20.lawrence.ks.us [24.124.20.26]) by sunflower.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA05072 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:52:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Jim Sloan" To: Subject: RE: Diacom Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:47:32 -0600 Message-ID: <000001be0730$818eda00$1a147c18@CTX.lawrence.ks.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <008d01be067a$42814f20$770365cb@holden> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu http://www.mcs.net/~rinda/auto.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Geoff & Sue > Richards > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 8:27 AM > To: Diy_Efi > Subject: Diacom > > > Anyone have url for Diacom please > Thanks > Geoff > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 09:09:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31840 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:09:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31832 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:09:15 -0500 From: JTesta1966@aol.com Received: from JTesta1966@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7LIKa19215 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:08:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:08:52 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/3/98 4:10:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, tobuzz@jps.net writes: << k/cam postition sensor? and sensor locations and bar on the MAP sensor, the throttle position resistance at WOT and other info needed to transfer this ECM into my volvo [great car, can't stand the CIS fuel injection!] >> I'm not sure what year car you have but if its a 240 by chance, thats a chrysl;er derived ECM and maybe theres software you can modify thaere. Jim From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 09:10:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31864 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:10:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31857 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:09:58 -0500 From: JTesta1966@aol.com Received: from JTesta1966@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7UOLa07909 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:08:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <193cb748.363f0e78@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:08:56 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: MAF Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/3/98 8:04:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, n5xmt@bellsouth.net writes: << First of all, isn't the "95 3800 rated at about 205 HP? Second, after >working in a Buick garage for 4 years, I am pretty sure that MAF sensor is >not 25 mm in diameter! I would say that any intake restrictions are mainly >the air filter box and intake runners. Mine's rated 170 HP... 95 LeSabre Vin L I thought about it... 25mm is 1 inch... Never seen a MAF that small! >> Actually, if you look inside, the sampling area is only that large. The hot wire is in its own "tunnel" If thats what the guy meant. Jim From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 09:26:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32157 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:26:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32153 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:26:17 -0500 From: JTesta1966@aol.com Received: from JTesta1966@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7INEa02301 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:25:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <85667386.363f1262@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:25:38 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: weird question I think Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there an inexpensive way to make a PC simulate a chip, say a prom reader that passes through a PC on the way to the ECM. You load the rom code into the PC, and the PC simulates a prom., that you could modify parameters to see what they do in real time, then when you get something you like, save the profile and burn it back at the shop? I guess this is kind of like DFi with out the DFI? You know what I'm asking? Cuz I'm no programmer, and would LIKE to learn, just not guessing on a value and burning a new chip every 10 minutes just to see what a mod will do. Jim From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 09:26:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32165 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:26:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32161 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:26:41 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-57.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.57]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id GAA16069 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:26:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363F18DA.6C91@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 06:53:14 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: where to find info References: <199811030027.SAA02417@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> <363E840C.D486B23E@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom Sharpe wrote: > > xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > For basic check out basic stamp and there list. > > What/where is basic stamp??? Regards Tom http://www.parallaxinc.com Jack From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 09:31:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32283 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:31:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32279 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:31:56 -0500 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01J3QB6ZZV74000090@UALR.EDU> for DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:31:41 CDT Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:12:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: New Member! To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <540667.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> this list! my goal is to change the fuel injection [Bosch CIS] on my -> volvo turbo to a GM sunbird turbo EFI...any ideas send a line! Uh, did I miss the joke? Why would you want to do that? - Dave "K-Jetronic" Williams From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 09:57:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00142 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:57:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00135 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:57:54 -0500 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id GAA09786 for <@deliverator.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:49:06 -0800 (PST) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id JAA06626; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:57:51 -0500 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA02523 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:57:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9811030957.ZM2519@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:57:50 -0500 In-Reply-To: Carlo Putter "RE: Diacom" (Nov 3, 12:59pm) References: <01BE0729.CD210760@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Diacom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It actually uses the parallel port, not serial, and the interface is proprietary. That's how they achieve their copy protection as well. On Nov 3, 12:59pm, Carlo Putter wrote: > Subject: RE: Diacom > > [ text/plain > Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] : > > I do not have the address, but am also interested, more so in the physical interface module between the car and the PC serial port. Does anybody have a handdrawn schematic?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff & Sue Richards [SMTP:geoffsue@one.net.au] > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 4:27 PM > To: Diy_Efi > Subject: Diacom > > Anyone have url for Diacom please > Thanks > Geoff > > [ Attachment (application/ms-tnef): 2797 bytes > Encoded with "base64" ] >-- End of excerpt from Carlo Putter From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 09:59:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA00245 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:59:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00231 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:59:47 -0500 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id GAA10148 for <@deliverator.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:50:57 -0800 (PST) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id JAA06644; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:59:43 -0500 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA02539 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:59:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9811030959.ZM2544@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:59:42 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Geoff & Sue Richards" "Diacom" (Nov 3, 1:27am) References: <008d01be067a$42814f20$770365cb@holden> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Diacom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu http://www.mcs.net/~rinda/home.html On Nov 3, 1:27am, Geoff & Sue Richards wrote: > Subject: Diacom > Anyone have url for Diacom please > Thanks > Geoff >-- End of excerpt from Geoff & Sue Richards From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 10:03:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00413 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:03:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.sun.ac.za (mail.sun.ac.za [146.232.128.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00407 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:02:59 -0500 Received: from sed.sun.ac.za ([146.232.144.12]) by mail.sun.ac.za with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu id 0zahyk-0005z6-00; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:02:42 +0200 Received: from SUN_SED/SpoolDir by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 3 Nov 98 17:02:50 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by SUN_SED (Mercury 1.32); 3 Nov 98 17:02:41 +0200 Received: from halmar.sed.sun.ac.za (146.232.146.112) by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 3 Nov 98 17:02:37 +0200 Received: by halmar.sed.sun.ac.za with Microsoft Mail id <01BE074B.CCBAFA20@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:02:55 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE074B.CCBAFA20@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za> From: Carlo Putter To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: BEGINNER HELP Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:02:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE074B.CCC29B40" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE074B.CCC29B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Basically what you need is an EPROM programmer (and reader) to read an = EPROM. Another feature of most of these programmers is that they can = program/read the code in microcontrollers like the Microchip PICs and = ATMEL chips. I have seen some kits/projects on building an EPROM programmer in the = ETI magazine, Electronics Austrailia magazine, and most proberly any = elctronics magazine has featured an EPROM programmer/reader/simulator. In order to reprogram an EPROM you have to erase it. This is done by = means of Ultra violet light. (EPROM eraser). If you actually want to modify the data in the chip you first of all = have to read it. Secondly you have to know what you want to modify and = where this data is situated in the EPROM. If you kow all this data you = have to figure out what each of the values mean. Then you can edit the = EPROM data with an HEXadecimal editor. Finaly you can reprogram the = erased EPROM and see whether you have created an explosion. Hope this solves most of your questions. Cheers Carlo Putter Stellenbosch South Africa -----Original Message----- From: Geoff & Sue Richards [SMTP:geoffsue@one.net.au] Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 6:02 PM To: Diy_Efi Subject: BEGINNER HELP hello maybe I been askin' wrong questions to learn 'bout proms I got prom in my hand comes from same vehicle as mine (Australian) What tools do I need to read what's in this? What tools do I need to modify this? the prom I have spare was replaced in service 'cause of a standard DTC under warranty so I scored it PCM No 16176424 If I can just have a look inside this I'll have a starting point TIA Geoff ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE074B.CCC29B40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjcPAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAEAIAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVk dQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5v aGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAnZGl5X2VmaUBlZmkz MzIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOkRJWV9FRklARUZJMzMyLkVO Ry5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZp MzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAIB918BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QC AAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAul4 AQSAAQASAAAAUkU6IEJFR0lOTkVSIEhFTFAAhAQBBYADAA4AAADOBwsAAwARAAIANgACAC4BASCA AwAOAAAAzgcLAAMAEAA0ABwAAgBFAQEJgAEAIQAAADE5MUEwODlDRkI3MkQyMTFCRTQ3MDAwMEU4 MkUxMTFBAAMHAQOQBgBUCAAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAu AAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBAsIIIOwe+AR4AcAABAAAAEgAAAFJFOiBCRUdJTk5FUiBIRUxQAAAA AgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb4HOwh5nAgaIXL7EdK+RwAA6C4RGgAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAe AB8MAQAAABYAAABjcHV0dGVyQHNlZC5zdW4uYWMuemEAAAADAAYQkLhgrAMABxAWBQAAHgAIEAEA AABlAAAASElCQVNJQ0FMTFlXSEFUWU9VTkVFRElTQU5FUFJPTVBST0dSQU1NRVIoQU5EUkVBREVS KVRPUkVBREFORVBST01BTk9USEVSRkVBVFVSRU9GTU9TVE9GVEhFU0VQUk9HUkFNTQAAAAACAQkQ AQAAADwFAAA4BQAALQgAAExaRnWewvXYdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgKwHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA72 cHJxMg/2Jn0KgAjIIDsJbzI1ZjUCgAqBdWMAUAsDYwMAQQtgbmcxMDMzeQumIEgAoAqxCoQKgEIK YQCQYwdAbHkgd0sPgAVAeQhgIG4J4GQKIAQAIAORRVBST5RNIBFAbwnAYW0HgF0FwCgAcBigCXBh BIEpWCB0bxpzGOcuD/BuqG90aBoBZhqQdAhwoGUgb2YgBGBzBUD/HSEcUQ+wGXkEIBjBHFAYAd8c URfAF4ADoBmFLxszHFHvH7AEcRiwA6BtF3ADYAWgjwIwA2AXoB6ybGlrHQAVINJNIaNoBSAgUEkG QxjSGKBBVE1FTJMfsCORcy4WikkgD4B+dh0AD7AJ8CZAA3AdAGvQaXRzLxmBagWQJxBTHRADoGJ1 AxBkC4BnzxjvGfIhYSDSRVQl4ADAyGdheguAZSwosCJQlyeQA2ADAGMEIEF1HXB/GcADEAcwKnka Qh1TGYFizwSQF7EAcBfAZWwrVyqG/yXxBCAcpRtoGXkgczGxAJDsbXULYBsAciUcA6AFsP8EgRr0 GYUwmBgyJgMbAQSQaxdQIUF0HABUI5Ae02R7AiAdAGIXwAeABiIdIVXibCwRIHZpBvAPwCKR9Gdo NtEoKMQ2YxrQJRz/HTAYMgDQHNAXlABwH1EbEO8EYQaQF8Ag0mQYACxwKdXzI4MYMmZpD6AdgxeR NddvGzM2wgZgIeFkF7E1qmv/HDAH4BfnPI0aQhfgBJAi0t83Uj3DBCAAkDwRdBiSKeX7G8Q7hWtC UT+SRKg1qj8A+mcc43UFQBfjGpAPcB2V/zjgB0AKUC8hOBE24iZxGDL/H8IJgCcARig9pAPwHFAw kuhIRVgaoWMHcAdATIP5MsEgRguAB0BBVB/CNHj/INI2YxigKMQaQiZRRDIcU881pwUAHLEwdGV4 C1AdYMc5AEuQFopIb3BEhSagvmwmIC8hHWUYMQXAcUsh9nRU0SUMQxxgHrFYtQrArwkAI8BJsEXA chaEU0XA7SJBbgbgBPBoWpVJoUpgPkEDUBdxFooK9CKgMzZ/AUAVEAFAGYFFwCeQEIQxqDYgLV+S TwUQZ0+i6wXQB5BzKpBlX5MWhl6kB15xCxNepmktMTQ04wFAIqAxODABQAzQYzNWYk+AA2E6DINi D+BH9mUdIB0wJgYAClAH8BdwBQ+BZAQgW1NNVFBWOmDAZXFzClBAN5Eu4xhwNtBhdV0WhWRgBmBL AjBkx01BEWF5KwBOTm8mIAbQGgEwMisAMcA5OTggNjpqsCPAEk1oR1RvZMdEaXnMX0U/AGhIdWIn cmTHAEJFR0lOTkVS+U5BTFBhP2JKXfQLthaT2xxgF6BvFoQAwHkt8EbQzyfwJmIXUCbwbicX0Ctx vyhwV7ca8iJQCsADoCcG4NtJsRmBbVllJeBnHEB2k/8hUxfAD4AaUQWgB4IDUiZA6xnQStFlI5Bj IlB0MSGBTS+hKCvkLFFuKRaEV/0fM28G8Ddic8EYcxsGF+LuJx7RKeIEAD97f3yLPQf/fmcg0nez JeYKsVKRL+E0cf0LYGNF1DpxOPCDgHYwF4B/K/AdAyxwHXAaQQsRbOBUukMWhHUaUBoBPIByGcD/ AjAXwCagc8EE8AWwGJIFQBxQQxlgaiBq4DYxN3A2NDI0Oycl4B/Cas8r8SX0LHAJAG9rIVEAkPMh MUSjSSc/poUTACAoUrxwbwuAXvAWkypQQRaEF2VTFooSAQCPwAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ /////0AABzDgm3yTOQe+AUAACDDgm3yTOQe+AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAA AAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAA AwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAY hQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUA AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AAB8Kg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE074B.CCC29B40-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:08:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02125 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:08:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from MAIL2 (mail2.bip.net [195.242.48.85]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02118 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:08:31 -0500 Received: from Rolle.telia.com - 212.209.9.180 by mail.bip.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:08:25 +0100 From: "Roland Johansson" To: Subject: SV: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:02:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <069d825081603b8MAIL2@mail.bip.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Seems like this story goes thruu several mailing lists at the moment. Have seen it twice before in last week. Might work for you in US, have no idea but might be more like a e-mail virus. Roland Johansson Scirocco 1,6l TIC -82 Http://hem.passagen.se/toker > This sounds like the very best of jail house lawyering or Urban Myth > crap, but it's worth a try!! > > THIS IS FOR USA ONLY > > I tried to pass this on to anyone I could think of. This procedure > works in > any state. Read it and try it, you have nothing to loose but the points > in > your license. If you get a speeding ticket or went through a red light > or > whatever the case may be, and you are going to get points on your > license, > then there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points. > > When you get your fine, send in the check to pay for it and if the fine > is > say $79, then make the check out for $82 or some small amount above the > fine. > > The system will then have to send you back a check for the difference, > but > here is the trick! ---DO NOT CASH THE CHECK!! Throw it away! > > Points are not assessed to your license until all the financial > transactions are complete. If you do not cash the check, then the > transactions are not complete. However the system has gotten its money > so > it is happy and will not bother you any more. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:22:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02558 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:22:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f160.hotmail.com [207.82.251.39]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02553 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:22:15 -0500 Received: (qmail 3193 invoked by uid 0); 3 Nov 1998 16:21:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19981103162142.3192.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.217.140.22 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:21:41 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.217.140.22] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Beginner's links MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:21:41 PST Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It was written: >If you actually want to modify the data in the chip you first of all have >to read it. Secondly you have to know what you want to modify and >where this data is situated in the EPROM. If you kow all this data >you have to figure out what each of the values mean. Then you can >edit the EPROM data with an HEXadecimal editor. Finaly you can >reprogram the erased EPROM and see whether you have created >an explosion. Yes. Two links off the diy_efi page have some excellent introductory information on this process. I learned a lot by reading through these links: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/oem/gm/prog_101.html http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/oem/gm/tunetip.html Also -be advised there may be a checksum calculation to be performed and programmed into the eprom prior to running it. One of the above links has info on that too! -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:27:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02663 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:27:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02659 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:27:16 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du314-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.60]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA09703 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:27:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199811031627.IAA09703@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:30:57 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <199811030820.AAA10227@gonzo.wolfenet.com> References: <199811030629.WAA28648@mail.wgn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Another reason for the PIC is that I have not done one yet! So I have an easy project and can get with it now... Sandy At 12:20 AM 11/3/98 -0800, you wrote: > >> Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. Just >> not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several PIC's >> have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. > >I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. >I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with >some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!). I have a PIC16C73 >based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. >I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit >chip instead. I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler >macro capability is good - I should post the code). Used the >interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting >since this feature is buggy on the 16C73. Picked up a couple >of duty cycles using the capture inputs... > >Orin. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:27:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02671 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:27:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02667 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:27:36 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp93.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.93]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA26354 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:24:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000c01be0746$d448d280$5d7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: MAF Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:27:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am pretty sure that MAF sensor is > >not 25 mm in diameter! > > Mine's rated 170 HP... 95 LeSabre Vin L > I thought about it... 25mm is 1 inch... Never seen a MAF that small! >> > >Actually, if you look inside, the sampling area is only that large. The hot >wire is in its own "tunnel" If thats what the guy meant. The gentelman who posted the question about the Buick "25mm" MAF sensor actually mentioned the size of the sampling area as well; I don't believe that could be anywhere close to 25 mm, though. Aren't the sampling tunnels usually less than 10mm? Soren From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:32:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02764 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:32:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f237.hotmail.com [207.82.251.128]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA02756 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:32:07 -0500 Received: (qmail 7592 invoked by uid 0); 3 Nov 1998 16:24:45 -0000 Message-ID: <19981103162445.7591.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.217.140.22 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:24:45 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.217.140.22] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: weird question I think MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:24:45 PST Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim wrote: >Is there an inexpensive way to make a PC simulate a chip, say a prom reader >that passes through a PC on the way to the ECM. You load the rom code into the >PC, and the PC simulates a prom., that you could modify parameters to see what Yea, look for something called a ROM emulator. Its a box with a cable coming out one end which attaches to your ECU (or whatever). You download the ROM code image into this box and off you go! But I'm not sure how much time this will actually save, and they usually aren't too cheap either. -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:32:46 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02777 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:32:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02773 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:32:45 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp93.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.93]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA26688 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:29:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001301be0747$8c91f240$5d7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?! Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:32:28 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Turbo sunbird, >Syclone & Typhoon... The above cars use a two bar sensor, but >syty list members have been debugging a 3 bar chip that looks >encouraging, if you like >16 psi Some fellow Isuzu owners were looking for a 3 bar conversion for their 17psi Impulses (Delco ECM). If you can tell me where to go to get information specific to this 3 bar setup, I would appreciate it. Soren Rounds From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:40:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03132 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:40:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03127 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:40:42 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:40:09 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: 1227746 ECM Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:40:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the advice, I'll stick with the 7747. Where could I get a 350 auto PROM for a 7747, I'm helping convert a 1981 Chevy truck to TBI. The ECM I have now is a 7747 ATKX from a 1990 Astro Van 4.3L V6 . Thanks for the help. Don -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 3:46 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 1227746 ECM -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 4:06 PM Subject: 1227746 ECM >I found a 7746 ECM ( ACDW) at the local U-Pull- IT . The donor car was a >4.3L TBI 1987 Grand Prix this set up seems to be the same as a 1987 Astro >Van with a 7747 ECM are the ECM's plug and play ? You really need to get a wiring diagram out, and look. There are sometimes small but meaningful changes from ecm to ecm. They are not the same. In the passenger car versions they use a IAT. Also, the tables will be moved around some I beleive. If you want to tinker with a 747 you need to have a 747. Some of the advanced guys can play some games with adapations, but if your just starting out learn the baxics first. I would also appreciate >some help >With downloading Bin files, Can a PROM be burned from the data in the Bin's. When the correct corresponding parts are used, yes. >? > >Thanks > >Don > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 11:54:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03481 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:54:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from chexchange1.sidley.com (chexchange1.sidley.com [198.232.35.207]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03477 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:54:15 -0500 Received: by chexchange1.sidley.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:53:40 -0600 Message-ID: <2CBF8F15FC0DD2119E6C0080D8700AA1C50608@chexchange1.sidley.com> From: "Dupree, Robert A." To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: NO EFI Content - Looking for other aftermarket steering wheel com panies asside from MOMO Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:53:37 -0600 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone out there got WWW sites or manufacturer names for companies producing aftermarket steering wheels asside from MOMO? Need to get rid of the pizza-dish inside both the Audi, and the Volvo. Bob Dupree From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 12:09:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA03931 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:09:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA03927 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:09:47 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id LAA13220; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:07:03 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma013218; Tue, 3 Nov 98 11:06:45 -0600 Received: from aussun31.NIS.austin by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA27373; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:09:35 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun31.NIS.austin (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA01006; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:09:34 -0600 Message-ID: <363F38CD.6F1205E8@arm.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:09:33 -0600 From: Steve Ravet Organization: ARM, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ftp References: <001a01bdffbf$082f5cc0$770365cb@holden> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Geoff & Sue Richards wrote: > > Is this the correct address for the ftp site? > > ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/pub/efi332/ > Cheers > GEoff That's one address. Most of the "stuff" on the ftp site is in /incoming. As I get time, I look at what's in there and move it to someplace in /pub/diy_efi or /pub/efi332 as appropriate. I also add it to the ftp site index to make it easier to see what's been uploaded. ie all the .bin files have been moved to /pub/diy_efi The only directory that stuff can be uploaded to is /incoming. The others are read-only. --steve -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 12:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA04255 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:24:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com (smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com [198.133.22.42]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA04248 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:24:14 -0500 Received: from relay2.server.ibm.com (relay2.server.ibm.com [9.14.2.99]) by smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA59800 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:06:20 -0500 Received: from US.IBM.COM (d03lms05.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.80.15]) by relay2.server.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA26650 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:19:36 -0500 Received: by US.IBM.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 3.0) with snapi via D03AU045 id 5030050023096530; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:25:38 -0500 From: Kevin Vannorsdel To: Subject: TPS Idle Voltage Message-ID: <5030050023096530000002L502*@MHS> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:25:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id MAA04250 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I recently had to replace my TPS on a TBI 350 (1227747). Got an aftermarket TPS from Tomco. This thing is real nice because it has slotted mounting holes allowing for easy adjustment! It cost me 45 bucks. KV@us.ibm.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 13:36:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06338 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:36:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06333 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:36:22 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA06268 for mail_from ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:36:14 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:36:14 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: MAF Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >soren wrote: > >> >170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which >> >works out to 84% or so VE--on the low side, which indicates a lot of >> >restriction from the MAF! If the thing only has a 25 mm diameter throat, >> >your MAP at WOT can only get up to about 12.0 or 12.5 psia. (Basically , >> >the MAF is throttling the engine!) >> >> First of all, isn't the "95 3800 rated at about 205 HP? Second, after >> working in a Buick garage for 4 years, I am pretty sure that MAF sensor is >> not 25 mm in diameter! > >He prolly meant 25mm radius... 50mm sounds about right on a car putting around >200hp. I would agree--that amount of air-flor through a 25 mm hole would not be particularly within the realm of possibility for making 200 HP.-- But I will maintain that a 60 or 65 mm diameter MAF should give a substantial boost in top end performance over a 50mm (if that is what it really is) for an engine of this size with the other stated flow enhancements (bigger exhausts, etc.) If the available MAF instruments are not sensitive enough to give usable and repeatable readings with this much of a size increase, they DO deserve to be on the junk pile!! Another, possibly dangerous, thought: has anyone thought of running TWO throttle bodies (acting in progression, like the primaries and secondaries of a four-barrel carb, with TWO MAF's?? (maybe even a stock size primary, and a larger secondary one?? This would indeed be an interesting electronic project--come up with a way to combine the outputs from two, progressively used MAF's into an input which a (nearly) stock ecu would accept as if it had come from a stock single MAF sensor!! No deterioration at all in bottom end response or mixture control, and gobs more airflow whenever one cared to ask for it!! Regards, Greg > >Ciao, >Francois Dion (francois@hyperreal.org) >-- >Member: FLU #1722, PCNA >http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/zagato/101/launch.html >Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Lancia, Peugeot, Volvo, Solex From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 13:39:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06442 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:39:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06438 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:39:32 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA06954 for mail_from ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:39:28 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:39:28 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: SV: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Seems like this story goes thruu several mailing lists at the >moment. Have seen it twice before in last week. Might work for >you in US, have no idea but might be more like a e-mail virus. > So maybe the Gummint will catch it, with hopefully bad effects!> > >> This sounds like the very best of jail house lawyering or >Urban Myth >> crap, but it's worth a try!! >> From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 13:52:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06927 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:52:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06921 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:52:13 -0500 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id KAA04163 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from seamail.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 3 Nov 1998 18:51:57 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <7F57DC2D45ADD11196B700A0C99B56320146205D@seamail.perkinscoie.com> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: 747 ecm ? Vs 1226867 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:52:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu howdy. I am putting around putting the pieces together to put my 85 sunbird TBI in my mg, however I worry about the fact that I see more dialog here about the '747 ECU than the one I have, 1226867(4cyl). should I scrap my ECU and go find a 747 and have someone program a prom for me for 4 cyl ? or stand pat with what I have ? I liked the illusion of safety in that it came from a 1.8 liter engine and I now have the manual trans eprom in it. I would think the '747 wouldn't know about my particular throttle body ? thanks, Ted Stowe -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com [mailto:Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 8:40 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: 1227746 ECM Thanks for the advice, I'll stick with the 7747. Where could I get a 350 auto PROM for a 7747, I'm helping convert a 1981 Chevy truck to TBI. The ECM I have now is a 7747 ATKX from a 1990 Astro Van 4.3L V6 . Thanks for the help. Don -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 3:46 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 1227746 ECM -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 4:06 PM Subject: 1227746 ECM >I found a 7746 ECM ( ACDW) at the local U-Pull- IT . The donor car was a >4.3L TBI 1987 Grand Prix this set up seems to be the same as a 1987 Astro >Van with a 7747 ECM are the ECM's plug and play ? You really need to get a wiring diagram out, and look. There are sometimes small but meaningful changes from ecm to ecm. They are not the same. In the passenger car versions they use a IAT. Also, the tables will be moved around some I beleive. If you want to tinker with a 747 you need to have a 747. Some of the advanced guys can play some games with adapations, but if your just starting out learn the baxics first. I would also appreciate >some help >With downloading Bin files, Can a PROM be burned from the data in the Bin's. When the correct corresponding parts are used, yes. >? > >Thanks > >Don > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 13:54:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07035 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:54:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07012 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:54:33 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-3.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.72]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA25038 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:54:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <016d01be075b$daa1ae80$48198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 1227746 ECM Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:57:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 1:06 PM Subject: RE: 1227746 ECM >Thanks for the advice, I'll stick with the 7747. Where could I get a 350 >auto PROM for a 7747, While waiting to get the chip burning stuff, just go to gm and ask for a prom that is about close to what you have. Bruce I'm helping convert a 1981 >Chevy truck to TBI. The ECM I have now is a 7747 ATKX from a 1990 Astro Van >4.3L V6 . > > >Thanks for the help. > >Don > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 3:46 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: 1227746 ECM > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 4:06 PM > Subject: 1227746 ECM > > > >I found a 7746 ECM ( ACDW) at the local U-Pull- IT . The donor >car was a > >4.3L TBI 1987 Grand Prix this set up seems to be the same as a 1987 >Astro > >Van with a 7747 ECM are the ECM's plug and play ? > > You really need to get a wiring diagram out, and look. There are > sometimes small but meaningful changes from ecm to ecm. They > are not the same. In the passenger car versions they use a IAT. > Also, the tables will be moved around some I beleive. If you want > to tinker with a 747 you need to have a 747. Some of the advanced > guys can play some games with adapations, but if your just starting > out learn the baxics first. > > I would also appreciate > >some help > >With downloading Bin files, Can a PROM be burned from the data in >the > Bin's. > > When the correct corresponding parts are used, yes. > >? > > > >Thanks > > > >Don > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 14:24:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07831 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:24:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07826 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:24:46 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7SLIa03975 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:23:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <94bff3a4.363f584e@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:23:58 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?! Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/3/98 12:45:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, soren@rio.com writes: > Some fellow Isuzu owners were looking for a 3 bar conversion for their > 17psi Impulses (Delco ECM). If you can tell me where to go to get > information specific to this 3 bar setup, I would appreciate it. > I believe the person(s) involved want to thouroughly test the chip before considering any website release.. The 7749 ECM is different from the Isuzu box... I'm sure of that.. Mike V From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 14:29:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07915 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:29:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA07911 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:29:49 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id NAA14793; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:27:06 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma014790; Tue, 3 Nov 98 13:26:28 -0600 Received: from aussun31.NIS.austin by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA29806; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:29:18 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun31.NIS.austin (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA01108; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:29:16 -0600 Message-ID: <363F598C.15BC4F8@arm.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:29:16 -0600 From: Steve Ravet Organization: ARM, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PIC Questions References: <199811030629.WAA28648@mail.wgn.net> <199811031627.IAA09703@mail.wgn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sandy wrote: > > Another reason for the PIC is that I have not done one yet! So I have an > easy project and can get with it now... Sandy, the digikey catalog usually has a good chart that lists how many uarts, a/ds, io lines, etc. each PIC part has. Digikey also sells two cheapo programming kits. Stay away from them, and get the picstart-plus kit instead. The cheapo ones are only for a few specific PICs, and the software is ancient. The new picstart software is great, but it won't talk to the cheapo programmers. I started a project a while back with a PIC, first real hardware project ever, and was really surprised at how well it all worked. I'm sold on PICs. --steve > > Sandy > > At 12:20 AM 11/3/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >> Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. Just > >> not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several PIC's > >> have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. > > > >I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. > >I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with > >some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!). I have a PIC16C73 > >based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. > >I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit > >chip instead. I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler > >macro capability is good - I should post the code). Used the > >interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting > >since this feature is buggy on the 16C73. Picked up a couple > >of duty cycles using the capture inputs... > > > >Orin. > > -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 14:31:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07973 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:31:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07969 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:31:39 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7JRRa02328 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:30:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <84cc9ea6.363f59e2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:30:42 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 1227746 ECM Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I don't show another intercangable ECM for that number.. Mike V From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 15:05:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08729 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:05:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgw1.lmco.com (mailgw1.lmco.com [192.31.106.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08723 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:05:18 -0500 Received: from emss02g01.ems.lmco.com (relay2.ems.lmco.com [198.7.15.39]) by mailgw1.lmco.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03724; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:05:15 -0700 (MST) Received: from mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com ([143.114.73.5]) by lmco.com (PMDF V5.1-10 #20543) with ESMTP id <0F1V004MJ3SMUZ@lmco.com>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:05:14 -0700 (MST) Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com [143.114.72.1]) by mailhub.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA10785; Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:05:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id OAA24021; Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:05:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:05:01 -0600 From: Joe Boucher Subject: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , jboucher@ctelcom.net Message-id: <363F61EC.3A7ED8B@lmtas.lmco.com> Organization: Lockheed Martin MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have some more design thoughts on the SVO/TC Intercooler. Allan Slocam was kind enough to provide me with a couple of papers that Ford submitted to the SAE back in the mid 80's. One of them makes a SWAG statement that 70% intercooler effectiveness was assumed. The other one states that "The final intercooler design resulted in a unit that showed the lowest induction temperatures during WOT acceleration and the fastest recovery to stabilized temperatures". Basically my thoughts are "What a crock!" Ford intended for the intercooler to work in a surge mode. Now, I know that doesn't come as shock to any of us performance minded 2.3 Turbo owners. However, I have continued my work on modeling the thermodynamic performance of the TC/SVO IC's and , indeed, I can't see any way for it to work short of being a thermal mass. One of the major issues is the amount of air flow to the unit. On an 87-88 TC, the hood scoop openings are approximately 1" x 5" and there are 2 of them. This gives about 10 square inches of opening. If we base this on a car going 45 mph or 66 ft/sec then with no entrance or duct work losses, the max air flow through the IC is only 275 cfm. This is important because of cross flow correction to the LMTD. This may also be difficult to explain. If you refer to my post on October 19, I calculated inlet and outlet air temps for both sides of the unit assuming discharge manifold air was cooled to 120F. (One unfortunate problem with doing heat exchanger design by the methods of 20 years ago is that you have to assume temps and then back calculate to see if you can get there,-- Its called an iterative solution). My October 19 post used 500cfm air flow to the IC and got a corrected Log Mean Temperature Difference of 61.36F. Redoing that for an outside air flow of 275 cfm generates some very different answers. Compressor side: Inlet Temp = 302F T1 Exit Temp = 120F T2 Air Side Inlet Temp = 80F t1 Exit temp = 260F t2 LMTD = ((T1-t2)-(T2-t1))/ln((T1-t2)/(T2-t1)) T1-t2 =42 T2-t1 =40 t2-t1 =180 T1-t1 =222 LMTD = (42-40)/ln(42/40) = 41F Correcting for unmixed crossflow S= (t2-t1)/(T1-t1) = .81 R= (T1-T2)/(t2-t1) = 1.01 The correction curves in figure 16.17 in Process Heat Transfer By Donald Kearns don't have this point on the charts. The charts only go down to a .6 correction factor and the curves go vertical as they approach this point. The correction factor probably is in the neighborhood of .3. That would give us an LMTD of 12.3F. I know, Can I say that in English? Gonna Be tough. With that driving temperature difference, and CFM flowrate, the intercooler would have to be about the size of the engine compartment. The assumed heat rejection is too high for 275 cfm air side flow. We need to choose a different operating point. To make a long story short, I think that the TC/SVO IC with 275 cfm air flow will only cool the intake charge to approximately 200F on an 80F day. Remember, that is based on 18 psi boost and 20.24 lb/min air flow. The saving grace is the thermal mass of the intercooler. If we assume a thermal mass of 5lbs, then the temperature of the unit will increase by approximately 70F during a 7 second 0-60 run. The air flow to the unit will only allow it to recover from a 0-60 burst over several minutes. I am not showing the calculations for heat transfer coefficients because they occupy several pages and I doubt that very many people have the background to understand them. They are also heavily based on charts and curves in my heat exchanger design books. Email me privately if you want them. I'm really not saying anything new here. The TC/SVO IC is in a horrible place for cooling of an air to air unit. No amount of ducting or fans can change the performance of the unit appreciably. Please, no flames saying that everyone already know this. I took on this project to do an Engineering evaluation of the stock TC intercooler versus a front mounted air to air versus a liquid to air. I'm still working on the others. Obviuosly, an Air to Air unit MUST be placed where it can get good air flow. Obviously, the liquid to air rejection unit must be placed where it can get EVEN MORE air flow. More to come later. Don From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 15:15:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08941 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:15:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08937 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:15:04 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-38.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.107]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA03161 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:14:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01be0767$14520ca0$6b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 747 ecm ? Vs 1226867 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:16:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Stowe, Ted-SEA To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 2:53 PM Subject: 747 ecm ? Vs 1226867 >howdy. > >I am putting around putting the pieces together to put my 85 sunbird TBI in >my mg, however I worry about the fact that I see more dialog here about the >'747 ECU than the one I have, 1226867(4cyl). should I scrap my ECU and go >find a 747 and have someone program a prom for me for 4 cyl ? or stand pat >with what I have ? There is no 4 cyl application of the 7747 ecm. No wiring diagram of what it would look like. The 730+165 have been used in 4 cyl TBI but use 128+256K proms. Long term is probably best with what ya have. I liked the illusion of safety in that it came from a 1.8 >liter engine and I now have the manual trans eprom in it. I would think the >'747 wouldn't know about my particular throttle body ? > >thanks, Ted Stowe > >-----Original Message----- >From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com [mailto:Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com] >Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 8:40 AM >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: RE: 1227746 ECM > > >Thanks for the advice, I'll stick with the 7747. Where could I get a 350 >auto PROM for a 7747, I'm helping convert a 1981 >Chevy truck to TBI. The ECM I have now is a 7747 ATKX from a 1990 Astro Van >4.3L V6 . > > >Thanks for the help. > >Don > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] > Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 3:46 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: 1227746 ECM > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 4:06 PM > Subject: 1227746 ECM > > > >I found a 7746 ECM ( ACDW) at the local U-Pull- IT . The donor >car was a > >4.3L TBI 1987 Grand Prix this set up seems to be the same as a 1987 >Astro > >Van with a 7747 ECM are the ECM's plug and play ? > > You really need to get a wiring diagram out, and look. There are > sometimes small but meaningful changes from ecm to ecm. They > are not the same. In the passenger car versions they use a IAT. > Also, the tables will be moved around some I beleive. If you want > to tinker with a 747 you need to have a 747. Some of the advanced > guys can play some games with adapations, but if your just starting > out learn the baxics first. > > I would also appreciate > >some help > >With downloading Bin files, Can a PROM be burned from the data in >the > Bin's. > > When the correct corresponding parts are used, yes. > >? > > > >Thanks > > > >Don > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 15:16:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08991 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:16:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08985 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:16:03 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du151-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.151]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA09292 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:15:59 -0800 Message-Id: X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:04:24 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <363F598C.15BC4F8@arm.com> References: <199811030629.WAA28648@mail.wgn.net> <199811031627.IAA09703@mail.wgn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Funny that you bring it up I am looking at the Digikey cat right now! Thanks Sandy At 01:29 PM 11/3/98 -0600, you wrote: >Sandy wrote: >> >> Another reason for the PIC is that I have not done one yet! So I have an >> easy project and can get with it now... > >Sandy, the digikey catalog usually has a good chart that lists how many >uarts, a/ds, io lines, etc. each PIC part has. > >Digikey also sells two cheapo programming kits. Stay away from them, >and get the picstart-plus kit instead. The cheapo ones are only for a >few specific PICs, and the software is ancient. The new picstart >software is great, but it won't talk to the cheapo programmers. I >started a project a while back with a PIC, first real hardware project >ever, and was really surprised at how well it all worked. I'm sold on >PICs. > >--steve > >> >> Sandy >> >> At 12:20 AM 11/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> >> Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. Just >> >> not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several PIC's >> >> have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. >> > >> >I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. >> >I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with >> >some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!). I have a PIC16C73 >> >based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. >> >I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit >> >chip instead. I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler >> >macro capability is good - I should post the code). Used the >> >interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting >> >since this feature is buggy on the 16C73. Picked up a couple >> >of duty cycles using the capture inputs... >> > >> >Orin. >> > > >-- >Steve Ravet >steve.ravet@arm.com >Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. >www.arm.com > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 15:18:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09096 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:18:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09092 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:18:39 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du151-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.151]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA09636 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:18:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199811032018.MAA09636@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 12:22:20 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <199811021857.KAA14425@gonzo.wolfenet.com> References: <363DF86B.377F@earthlink.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Are the PIC16C6X the same as the 16C7X except for the lack of the A/D converter? Sandy From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 16:02:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA10098 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:02:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mango.bcit.bc.ca (mango.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.166]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA10094 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:02:44 -0500 Received: by mango.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 882566B1.00744A78 ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:10:12 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <882566B1.00737B95.00@mango.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:02:38 -0800 Subject: Re: TPS sensor compatibility??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howday all I have used all 3 tps interchangeably. Just make sure the right wires go to the right place. Also the large adjustable TPS is the best. Only thing is you should set it regardless whether or not the ecm autozeros. :peter From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 17:00:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA11645 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:00:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA11641 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:00:05 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA06148 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:00:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:00:09 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B67@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Beginner's links Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:59:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Bill. Very helpful sites. Spent much of the afternoon looking both them over. It's gonna take another reread ...... or two. ha! Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill the arcstarter [SMTP:arcstarter@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 11:22 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Beginner's links > > It was written: > >If you actually want to modify the data in the chip you first of all > have > >to read it. Secondly you have to know what you want to modify and > >where this data is situated in the EPROM. If you kow all this data > >you have to figure out what each of the values mean. Then you can > >edit the EPROM data with an HEXadecimal editor. Finaly you can > >reprogram the erased EPROM and see whether you have created > >an explosion. > > Yes. Two links off the diy_efi page have some excellent introductory > information on this process. I learned a lot by reading through these > links: > > http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/oem/gm/prog_101.html > http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/oem/gm/tunetip.html > > Also -be advised there may be a checksum calculation to be performed and > programmed into the eprom prior to running it. One of the above links > has info on that too! > > -Bill > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 17:38:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12442 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:38:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fxiod04.is (firewall-user@fxiod04.is.chrysler.com [204.189.94.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12438 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:38:11 -0500 From: jb24@chrysler.com Received: from odnpspr2-nf0.oddc.chrysler.com (odnpspr2-nf0.oddc.chrysler.com [129.9.202.74]) by fxiod04.is (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA26417 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:30:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com (lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com [129.9.202.75]) by odnpspr2-nf0.oddc.chrysler.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/chrysler-relay.1.2-kcd) with SMTP id RAA27755 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:38:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (666.1 7-2-1998)) id 852566B1.007C471A ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:37:26 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CHRYSLER To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <052566B1.007C45CD.00@lngodd02.notes.chrysler.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:40:41 -0500 Subject: Re: SV: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu All I know is that my local gummint states "No Refunds" "Roland Johansson" on 11/03/98 09:02:03 AM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: Subject: SV: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Ticket Loophole!!!] Seems like this story goes thruu several mailing lists at the moment. Have seen it twice before in last week. Might work for you in US, have no idea but might be more like a e-mail virus. Roland Johansson Scirocco 1,6l TIC -82 Http://hem.passagen.se/toker > This sounds like the very best of jail house lawyering or Urban Myth > crap, but it's worth a try!! > > THIS IS FOR USA ONLY > > I tried to pass this on to anyone I could think of. This procedure > works in > any state. Read it and try it, you have nothing to loose but the points > in > your license. If you get a speeding ticket or went through a red light > or > whatever the case may be, and you are going to get points on your > license, > then there is a method to ensure that you DO NOT get any points. > > When you get your fine, send in the check to pay for it and if the fine > is > say $79, then make the check out for $82 or some small amount above the > fine. > > The system will then have to send you back a check for the difference, > but > here is the trick! ---DO NOT CASH THE CHECK!! Throw it away! > > Points are not assessed to your license until all the financial > transactions are complete. If you do not cash the check, then the > transactions are not complete. However the system has gotten its money > so > it is happy and will not bother you any more. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 17:57:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12804 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:57:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12800 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:57:56 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id RAA12748 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:57:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:58:00 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B68@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: PIC Questions Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:57:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and describe (manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention. Also a brief explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming you could find an HC11 board). Thanks Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Orin Eman [SMTP:orin@WOLFENET.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 3:20 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: PIC Questions > > > > Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. > Just > > not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several > PIC's > > have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. > > I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. > I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with > some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!). I have a PIC16C73 > based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. > I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit > chip instead. I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler > macro capability is good - I should post the code). Used the > interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting > since this feature is buggy on the 16C73. Picked up a couple > of duty cycles using the capture inputs... > > Orin. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 18:42:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA13596 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:42:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA13592 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:42:46 -0500 Received: from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with ESMTP id RAA15550 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:44:43 -0600 (CST) Comments: ( Received on motgate2.mot.com from client pobox.mot.com, sender marttj@pcmail1.csg.mot.com ) Received: from pcmail1.csg.mot.com (PCMAIL1.csg.mot.com [144.188.23.22]) by pobox.mot.com (8.8.5/8.6.10/MOT-3.8) with SMTP id RAA26000 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:42:44 -0600 (CST) Received: from pcmail1.csg.mot.com (telematics.css.mot.com [144.186.137.10]) by pcmail1.csg.mot.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA11530 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:42:40 -0600 Message-ID: <363F9538.98538ADF@pcmail1.csg.mot.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:43:52 -0600 From: Thomas Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: MAF X-Priority: 1 (Highest) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The diameter of the engine code "C" throttle body valve (Not the overall MAF) is about 25 mm, maybe 35 mm at the max. The sampling area is rather small, guess is 10 mm, may be smaller, can't get my finger into it (assuming one would try....). Very small. My old 1991 Lumina 3.1L ("T") had a MUCH larger throttle body valve. It was the same as the Q-Jet secondary. Not MAF, Speed Density. 3800 would eat it alive in the top end, but the 3.1L would hold its own 0-50. The "L" engine is very different on the top end, the intake is the "Tuned Port FI", the "C" is the deviant like the "3" and the GN motors. The "C" engine has the newer heads. (Like the Turbo 3.8L Trans AM??) I know it is the Hitachi MAF, and it seem to me very small. I will try to get an accurate measurement of it tonight. My motor is the 165 hp version. Last year for the 3800 "C". The "L" motor showed up in Buick in 91, and the rest of the carlines that used it in 92. Then in 1995, the 3800 Series II (205 hp) showed up. I drove one, very sweet! Leave mine behind! Thomas Martin Greg Hermann wrote: > >soren wrote: > > > >> >170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which > >> >works out to 84% or so VE--on the low side, which indicates a lot of > >> >restriction from the MAF! If the thing only has a 25 mm diameter throat, > >> >your MAP at WOT can only get up to about 12.0 or 12.5 psia. (Basically , > >> >the MAF is throttling the engine!) > >> > >> First of all, isn't the "95 3800 rated at about 205 HP? Second, after > >> working in a Buick garage for 4 years, I am pretty sure that MAF sensor is > >> not 25 mm in diameter! > > > >He prolly meant 25mm radius... 50mm sounds about right on a car putting around > >200hp. > > I would agree--that amount of air-flor through a 25 mm hole would not be > particularly within the realm of possibility for making 200 HP.-- But I > will maintain that a 60 or 65 mm diameter MAF should give a substantial > boost in top end performance over a 50mm (if that is what it really is) for > an engine of this size with the other stated flow enhancements (bigger > exhausts, etc.) If the available MAF instruments are not sensitive enough > to give usable and repeatable readings with this much of a size increase, > they DO deserve to be on the junk pile!! > > Another, possibly dangerous, thought: has anyone thought of running TWO > throttle bodies (acting in progression, like the primaries and secondaries > of a four-barrel carb, with TWO MAF's?? (maybe even a stock size primary, > and a larger secondary one?? This would indeed be an interesting electronic > project--come up with a way to combine the outputs from two, progressively > used MAF's into an input which a (nearly) stock ecu would accept as if it > had come from a stock single MAF sensor!! No deterioration at all in bottom > end response or mixture control, and gobs more airflow whenever one cared > to ask for it!! > > Regards, Greg > > > >Ciao, > >Francois Dion (francois@hyperreal.org) > >-- > >Member: FLU #1722, PCNA > >http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/zagato/101/launch.html > >Alfa Romeo, Fiat, Lancia, Peugeot, Volvo, Solex From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 19:47:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14359 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:47:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14355 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:47:21 -0500 Received: from pii500 ([12.79.236.25]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP id <19981104004647.RCIG27142@pii500> for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:46:47 +0000 Message-ID: <363FA412.2AB7@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 19:47:14 -0500 From: "ron.boley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PIC Questions References: <199811030629.WAA28648@mail.wgn.net> <199811031627.IAA09703@mail.wgn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sandy and other EFIers, Take a look at the Circuit Cellar website [http://www.circuitcellar.com/]. It is a magazine dedicated to embedded control. I can be found on larger magazine stands. They focus on PIC's and other microcontrollers. There are projects, programs and tools in each issue. Although its not automotive focused it might be a source of tools and education for some. Ron Sandy wrote: > > Another reason for the PIC is that I have not done one yet! So I have an > easy project and can get with it now... > > Sandy > > At 12:20 AM 11/3/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >> Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. Just > >> not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several PIC's > >> have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. > > > >I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. > >I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with > >some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!). I have a PIC16C73 > >based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. > >I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit > >chip instead. I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler > >macro capability is good - I should post the code). Used the > >interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting > >since this feature is buggy on the 16C73. Picked up a couple > >of duty cycles using the capture inputs... > > > >Orin. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 19:51:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA14426 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:51:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA14422 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:51:50 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du143-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.143]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA16278 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:51:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199811040051.QAA16278@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:55:30 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: RE: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B68@tceis3.indy.tce.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id TAA14423 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The PIC is a very simple RISC processor that is good for lots of control type of applications (lots of other things to). They are inexpensive, and the tools are low cost. Lots of I/O depending on the model. Limitations in my mind are memory and not having a traditional 'Bus'. The bad also makes them very good for smaller projects. The HC11 is a more traditional CPU, lots of I/O easy to add boat loads of memory, but has the added expense of having too! PIC's are finding their way into everything, and seem like easy to gets started. The PIC and HC11 boards are pretty plentyful, with a bit lower cost to the PIC. The choice would have to be based on cost, size, and how much memory. Their are lots of addon's for the PIC, but they sort of defeat the simpicity of it. So my choice would be base on can I do it with just the PIC by itself, if I have to get a bunch of special addons' I would go with the HC11. Both have similar on chip functionality, I think the HC11 has some more advanced subsystems available, supports interrupts, can run a rtos, etc. 2 Cent... Sandy At 05:57 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and describe >(manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention.  Also a brief >explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming you >could find an HC11 board). > >Thanks > >Rick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Orin Eman [SMTP:orin@WOLFENET.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 3:20 AM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re: PIC Questions >> >> >> > Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. >> Just >> > not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several >> PIC's >> > have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. >> >> I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. >> I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with >> some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!).  I have a PIC16C73 >> based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. >> I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit >> chip instead.  I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler >> macro capability is good - I should post the code).  Used the >> interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting >> since this feature is buggy on the 16C73.  Picked up a couple >> of duty cycles using the capture inputs... >> >> Orin. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 20:13:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14846 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:13:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14841 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:13:03 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-69.mtco.com [206.69.130.69]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA01057 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:12:51 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <363FAA5A.4CE43A9@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 19:14:02 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Michael Kent wrote: > While fiddling around with my ignition timing maps I've noted a > significant increase in the induction noise as I bring the timing up. > Over 3000r's, past the stock torque peak, the motor seems pretty > rattle-proof and I'm wondering if the timing is actually over advanced, > causing work to be done against the piston... > > Timing at light load is up to 55 deg and WOT is no more than 40, > usually more like 34. > > thanx, > > MK I see 45-48 at light cruse but 34 at WOT and my system is on the ragged edge of detonation. EGR may allow more advance... Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 20:18:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA14949 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:18:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f176.hotmail.com [207.82.251.62]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA14943 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:18:28 -0500 Received: (qmail 13501 invoked by uid 0); 4 Nov 1998 01:17:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19981104011746.13500.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.68.41.118 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:17:46 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.68.41.118] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: PIC Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:17:46 PST Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It was written: >For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and describe >(manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention. Also a brief >explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming you >could find an HC11 board). PICs are made by Microchip Technologies, url = http://www.microchip.com . They are usually small cheap simple RISC-ish processors which include onboard ram, timers, uarts, etc. Not all models have all options. Most PICs have no external address/data us, but are instead chock full of i/o lines which can be used for all sorts of things. I've been fooling with these critters for a couple of years, and I can only summarize them by saying that "They are neat"! For the beginner, the typical part to choose would be the 16C84 or 16F84. These guys have some eeprom (64 bytes) on the inside and the program memory is completely flash. Typical home-style development involves "crash and burn", where the chip is pulled from the target board, reprogrammed (takes about 20 secs) and reinserted for a try. This part also has an on-board timer, interrupts, watchdog, low power sleep mode, 13 i/o lines (any combo of input/output), anti-pilfer code protection, in-circuit programming and other stuff like that. The assembly language is a bit cryptic, but not bad for a person already experienced in that particular art. All instructions (except for branches) execute in exactly 1 clock cycle. "C" and/or BASIC development systems are available but I don't know where. You can clock the little beggars up to (I think) 10-20 Megahertz. Not bad for a $6 part! Digikey sell them too. Anyone out there using any decent in-circuit emulators, other than microchip's $3000 Pro-Mate system? I'm looking for something to help me develop for other non-flash parts, and I hate the UV-erase technique... There was some sort of ICE-PIC box - which would supposedly let you program and run in-circuit at realtime clock rates. Anyone seen or using one of these systems? Of course the Atmel AVRs are rather equivalent and fully flash... :) Thanks. -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 20:45:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15423 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:45:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15419 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:45:03 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (root@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16672 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:45:00 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id RAA01947 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:40:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811040140.RAA01947@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: PIC Questions To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:40:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B68@tceis3.indy.tce.com> from "Jemison Richard" at Nov 3, 98 05:57:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and describe This has now been well covered! > (manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention. Also a brief Manufacturer: me Model: "the data aq board" Part #: don't have one ;) It's an Audi 5 cylinder turbo engine specific board, though it could be adapted to other Bosch engine management systems. It aquires ignition timing, a couple of duty cycles, 3 temperatures via thermocouples and some analog values. These are displayed on an LCD (2x20) and dumped to serial. > explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming you > could find an HC11 board). Advantage to the PIC is that you need no external components other than a crystal and a couple of caps to make it run. HC11 needs RAM at least (onboard probably not enough) and probably EPROM for final program. Thats two 28 pin or so chips as well as the CPU. Yes, there are HC11s with onboard EEPROM, but it is too small to be really useful for code. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 20:45:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15446 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:45:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15440 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:45:39 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-150.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.150]) by mail.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA01434 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:45:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811040145.UAA01434@mail.lig> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 20:45:36 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: 95 LeSabre PCM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, Uploaded a better version of the .jpg of my PCM to the Incoming directory... It's still called GM-P6-PCM.jpg, but I added labels with delco part numbers to the chips. I'm going to try to look at pinouts and see where address and data lines all go and see if I can't identify them better that way. I found a gentleman at Delco that says he may be able to get descriptions of what each chip is, but I'm not counting on it... So far all other questions to them have been answered with "That's none of your business, that's all proprietary technology". Later, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 20:51:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA15649 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:51:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15645 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:51:32 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-105.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.105]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA09960 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 17:51:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363FA582.330@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 16:53:22 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PIC Questions References: <199811030629.WAA28648@mail.wgn.net> <199811031627.IAA09703@mail.wgn.net> <363F598C.15BC4F8@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu FWIW, Microchip periodically puts the Picstart Plus on sale for ~ $150, usually in conjunction with their seminars. Check their site for dates. Digi-Key had them on sale last Xmas for $150. Additionally there are people selling previous revision units for ~ $100. You can upgrade them by purchasing a 17C4X/JW ($15), and downloading the latest software from Microchip's site. Jack Steve Ravet wrote: > and get the picstart-plus kit instead. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:21:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16195 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16190 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:05 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA20858 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:04 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:10 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B6A@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: PIC Questions Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:20:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id VAA16191 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Sandy. Could you give me a couple of PIC types to get me started and a supplier? Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy [SMTP:sganz@wgn.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 7:56 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: PIC Questions > > The PIC is a very simple RISC processor that is good for lots of control > type > of applications (lots of other things to). They are inexpensive, and the > tools > are low cost. Lots of I/O depending on the model. Limitations in my mind > are > memory and not having a traditional 'Bus'. The bad also makes them very > good > for smaller projects. The HC11 is a more traditional CPU, lots of I/O easy > to > add boat loads of memory, but has the added expense of having too! PIC's > are > finding their way into everything, and seem like easy to gets started. The > PIC > and HC11 boards are pretty plentyful, with a bit lower cost to the PIC. > The > choice would have to be based on cost, size, and how much memory. Their > are > lots of addon's for the PIC, but they sort of defeat the simpicity of it. > So my > choice would be base on can I do it with just the PIC by itself, if I have > to > get a bunch of special addons' I would go with the HC11. Both have similar > on > chip functionality, I think the HC11 has some more advanced subsystems > available, supports interrupts, can run a rtos, etc. > > 2 Cent... > > > Sandy > > At 05:57 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote: > >For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and > describe > >(manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention.  Also a brief > >explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming > you > >could find an HC11 board). > > > >Thanks > > > >Rick > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Orin Eman [SMTP:orin@WOLFENET.com] > >> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 3:20 AM > >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> Subject: Re: PIC Questions > >> > >> > >> > Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. > >> Just > >> > not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several > >> PIC's > >> > have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. > >> > >> I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. > >> I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with > >> some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!).  I have a > PIC16C73 > >> based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. > >> I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit > >> chip instead.  I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler > >> macro capability is good - I should post the code).  Used the > >> interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting > >> since this feature is buggy on the 16C73.  Picked up a couple > >> of duty cycles using the capture inputs... > >> > >> Orin. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:21:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16212 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16208 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:39 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA20930 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:44 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B6B@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: PIC Questions Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Ron. I'll check that out. rick > -----Original Message----- > From: ron.boley [SMTP:ron.boley@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 7:47 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: PIC Questions > > Sandy and other EFIers, > > Take a look at the Circuit Cellar website > [http://www.circuitcellar.com/]. It is a magazine dedicated to embedded > control. I can be found on larger magazine stands. They focus on PIC's > and other microcontrollers. There are projects, programs and tools in > each issue. Although its not automotive focused it might be a source of > tools and education for some. > > Ron > > Sandy wrote: > > > > Another reason for the PIC is that I have not done one yet! So I have an > > easy project and can get with it now... > > > > Sandy > > > > At 12:20 AM 11/3/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > >> Was looking at the HC11' but the PIC is lower cost and easier to get. > Just > > >> not needing the power of the HC11, just the i/o. Seems that several > PIC's > > >> have the same I/O capability so that makes is easy. > > > > > >I've looked at HC11 vs PIC too... kept coming back to the PIC. > > >I also looked at the PIC with more IO vs one with less IO with > > >some latches... the bigger PIC won easily (pin count!). I have a > PIC16C73 > > >based data aquisition board... drives a character LCD and RS232. > > >I _didn't_ use the on-board AtoD, but used a Motorola 145051 10 bit > > >chip instead. I had to do the serial by hand (but the assembler > > >macro capability is good - I should post the code). Used the > > >interrupt on change inputs to aquire ignition timing - interesting > > >since this feature is buggy on the 16C73. Picked up a couple > > >of duty cycles using the capture inputs... > > > > > >Orin. > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:30:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16439 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:30:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16434 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:30:44 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp122.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.122]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06299 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:27:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000801be079b$15a65460$7a7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:30:26 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Obviuosly, an Air to Air unit MUST be placed where it can get good air >flow. > >Obviously, the liquid to air rejection unit must be placed where it can >get >EVEN MORE air flow. > >More to come later. It sounds like you have this whole thing thought out very well, so I hestitate to make my meager suggestion. A friend of mine who owns an Isuzu Impulse (which has a top-mounted intercooler) has rigged up a device to spray ice water onto the IC. There is a switch mounted on the shifter used to energize the pump when he is deep into the boost; he says there is a noticeable difference in power when using it (probably due to less pinging), especially going uphill. Obviously this solution doesn't work too well for long-distance driving, but at the dragstrip or at a hillclimb it seems to be an economical solution to the low airflow problem. Soren From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:33:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16471 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:33:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16467 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:33:07 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-69.mtco.com [206.69.130.69]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA28208 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:33:05 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <363FBD28.D6C24CDA@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 20:34:16 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 References: <363F61EC.3A7ED8B@lmtas.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Joe Boucher wrote: > I have some more design thoughts on the SVO/TC Intercooler > I'm really not saying anything new here. The TC/SVO IC is in a horrible > place for cooling of an air to air unit. No amount of ducting or fans can > > change the performance of the unit appreciably. Please, no flames saying > that > everyone already know this. I took on this project to do an Engineering > evaluation of the stock TC intercooler versus a front mounted air to air > versus a liquid to air. I'm still working on the others. > > Obviuosly, an Air to Air unit MUST be placed where it can get good air > flow. > > Obviously, the liquid to air rejection unit must be placed where it can > get > EVEN MORE air flow. > > More to come later. > > Don Keeping the engine inlet air under 200 deg. under steady state conditions with high boost requires a huge a/a intercooler and more air than you can imagine... more than the radiator. Using water and a heat sink in an a/w intercooler reduces the size requirements as long as you don't need full throttle for very long. If you can live with 200+ degrees air temp, engine water can be used effectively, just double the radiator capacity. Just look at an 18 wheeler with a 3406. A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with water/alcohol injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, causing it to evaporate rapidly, absorbing a lot of heat and volume, thus reducing boost, which the turbo promptly replaces. This is very efficient for street thrillers that don't need more than 10 seconds worth of WOT. Net result is that if you need continuous boost, you need an air to water intercooler. If not, you are just spinning your wheels (at least I hope so). Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:39:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16580 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:39:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rgate.ricochet.net (rgate.ricochet.net [204.179.143.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16575 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:39:18 -0500 Received: from mg-20425422-195.ricochet.net (mg-20425422-195.ricochet.net [204.254.22.195]) by rgate.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA27467 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:39:06 -0600 (CST) Received: by mg-20425422-195.ricochet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BE0772.9F2634E0@mg-20425422-195.ricochet.net>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:40:49 -0500 Message-ID: <01BE0772.9F2634E0@mg-20425422-195.ricochet.net> From: Chris Conlon To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: RE: O2 sensors at WOT? Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:40:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > man's gas analyzer could be constructed using one heated (to measure O2) > > and one unheated to measure hydrocarbons, etc??? > > No. What the report said (I read it) was that NO O2 sensor senses O2 > at the temperatures that they operate at. They sense hydrocarbons > only. The temperature required for them to sense O2 was much higher > than the O2 sensor in a normal exhaust stream was supposed to be I had always heard, but never tested, that the O2 sensor reads *lean* under conditions of a rich misfire, due to lots of O2 in the exhaust. Sounds like this would be an easy test to see if the O2 sensor is really responding to O2 or HC. Comments? Maybe I need to go yank off a plug wire... Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:41:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16606 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:41:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16602 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:41:37 -0500 Received: from earthlink.net (pool025-max1.ds18-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.10.175]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27879 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:41:28 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <363FBEB4.566734EF@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 18:40:52 -0800 From: Heinrich Gerhardt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Speeding] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E6F09F74467D4007094569E6" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E6F09F74467D4007094569E6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------E6F09F74467D4007094569E6 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from dub-img-9.compuserve.com (dub-img-9.compuserve.com [149.174.206.139]) by condor.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA17479 for ; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.16) id BAA09355 for hgerhardt@earthlink.net; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:52:55 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:52:12 -0500 From: Steve Parker Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: Speeding Sender: Steve Parker To: Blind.Copy.Receiver@compuserve.com Message-ID: <199811030152_MC2-5EE0-DBA5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by condor.prod.itd.earthlink.net id WAA17479 >> Points are not assessed to your license until all the financial transactions are complete. If you do not cash the check, then the transactions are not complete. However the system has gotten its money so it is happy and will not bother you any more. Bull. The points go on the record as soon as the final date passes without the payment being received and DEPOSITED AND CLEARED in the bank...and then a WARRANT for your arrest goes out, too! Steve --------------E6F09F74467D4007094569E6-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:43:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16644 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:43:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16635 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:43:24 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA21693 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:43:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:43:29 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B6D@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: PIC Questions Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:43:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id VAA16636 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've had a quick look out on the micromint page and they've got some neat stuff out there. A couple of elementary questions. They have "modules" like Domino and Picstix then they have RTC (stackable board level systems like the RTC-HC11 with a clock speed of 8mhz. Will an 8mhz hc11 like this do the job of diy efi along with electronic ignition / timing control? Are these items I'm describing the PICs you are talking about (or at least similar)? Sorry for the elementary questions but you have to start somewhere! Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy [SMTP:sganz@wgn.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 7:56 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: PIC Questions > > So my > choice would be base on can I do it with just the PIC by itself, if I have > to > get a bunch of special addons' I would go with the HC11. Both have similar > on > chip functionality, I think the HC11 has some more advanced subsystems > available, supports interrupts, can run a rtos, etc. > > 2 Cent... > > > Sandy > > At 05:57 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote: > >For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and > describe > >(manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention.  Also a brief > >explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming > you > >could find an HC11 board). > > > >Thanks > > > >Rick > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:47:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16780 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:47:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16773 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:47:39 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-6.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.75]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id VAA21080 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:47:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010201be079d$f0ca4400$3b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 95 LeSabre PCM Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:50:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: David A. Cooley To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 9:24 PM Subject: 95 LeSabre PCM Dam fine craftmanship Bruce >Well, Uploaded a better version of the .jpg of my PCM to the Incoming >directory... >It's still called GM-P6-PCM.jpg, but I added labels with delco part numbers >to the chips. >I'm going to try to look at pinouts and see where address and data lines >all go and see if I can't identify them better that way. I found a >gentleman at Delco that says he may be able to get descriptions of what >each chip is, but I'm not counting on it... So far all other questions to >them have been answered with "That's none of your business, that's all >proprietary technology". >Later, >Dave > >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net > Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. >=========================================================== > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:47:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16781 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:47:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16772 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:47:37 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7LEPa10656 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:46:34 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <1ed5915d.363fc00a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:46:34 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/3/98 9:37:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, twsharpe@mtco.com writes: > A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with water/alcohol > injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, > causing it to evaporate rapidly, absorbing a lot of heat and volume, thus > reducing boost, which the turbo promptly replaces. This is very efficient > for street thrillers that don't need more than 10 seconds worth of WOT. > I went this route several year ago, and had problems with the alchohol/water mix having an "abrasive" effect on the compressor wheel. I would not do it again. BUT I have never seen pistons so sparking clean at teardown time, as with water injection. HTH Mike V. From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 21:57:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16966 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:57:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16961 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:57:11 -0500 Received: from king ([12.77.24.157]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP id <19981104025639.MXCX9083@king> for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:56:39 +0000 Message-ID: <002501be079f$b3d30c60$77184d0c@king> From: "Jon" To: Subject: Re: EFI Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:03:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is an idea I had some time back. How much is known about the 808? Enough to tune for a mild 350? Any ideas on a pinout at the ecm (ie what changes need to be made to MAF harness)? I DON'T have a eprom burner or the skills to burn my own chips (yet), but am willing to learn, and I have a project car begging for this conversion. Thanks for ANY input. Jon -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 1:31 AM Subject: Re: EFI > >-----Original Message----- >From: AJLegere@aol.com >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 10:57 PM >Subject: Re: EFI > > >>Will this '99 MAF work with a '165 ECM? > >Might be a whole lot less work to just change over to a 90-92 MAP. >Could go MAP with the 165 using the aussie 808 info.. >Bruce > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 22:02:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17034 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:02:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17030 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:02:10 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du162-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.162]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA03120 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:02:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199811040302.TAA03120@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 19:05:50 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: RE: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B6B@tceis3.indy.tce.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check out the microchip site and you will see all that is made. I was just up and downloaded the datasheets for the16c63 series. They have an overview of each part so you can browse around and see what each has. Sandy From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 22:05:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17086 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:05:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17082 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:05:31 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du162-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.162]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA03760 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:05:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199811040305.TAA03760@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 19:09:12 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: RE: PIC Questions In-Reply-To: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B6D@tceis3.indy.tce.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Only problem with the micromint is they are expensive. Check out NMIX (I think) they have a bunch of low cost HC11 boards, I have one that has lots of good stuff, keyboard ctrl, lcd interface, RS232/422, prototype area, software. Around 129 buck as I recall. Also check nuts and volts or other electronic rags, lots of em'. Sandy At 09:43 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've had a quick look out on the micromint page and they've got some >neat stuff out there. A couple of elementary questions. They have >"modules" like Domino and Picstix >then they have RTC (stackable board level systems like the RTC-HC11 with a >clock speed of 8mhz. > >Will an 8mhz hc11 like this do the job of diy efi along with electronic >ignition / timing control? Are these >items I'm describing the PICs you are talking about (or at least similar)? > >Sorry for the elementary questions but you have to start somewhere! > >Rick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sandy [SMTP:sganz@wgn.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 7:56 PM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: RE: PIC Questions >> >> So my >> choice would be base on can I do it with just the PIC by itself, if I have >> to >> get a bunch of special addons' I would go with the HC11. Both have similar >> on >> chip functionality, I think the HC11 has some more advanced subsystems >> available, supports interrupts, can run a rtos, etc. >> >> 2 Cent... >> >> >> Sandy >> >> At 05:57 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and >> describe >> >(manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention. Also a brief >> >explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming >> you >> >could find an HC11 board). >> > >> >Thanks >> > >> >Rick >> > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 22:16:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17253 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:16:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17249 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:16:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA16339 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:16:15 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:16:14 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: weird question I think In-Reply-To: <19981103162445.7591.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Bill the arcstarter wrote: > Jim wrote: > >Is there an inexpensive way to make a PC simulate a chip, say a prom > reader > >that passes through a PC on the way to the ECM. You load the rom code > into the > >PC, and the PC simulates a prom., that you could modify parameters to > see what > > Yea, look for something called a ROM emulator. Its a box with a cable > coming out one end which attaches to your ECU (or whatever). You > download the ROM code image into this box and off you go! But I'm not > sure how much time this will actually save, and they usually aren't too > cheap either. > > -Bill They would not save any time. If you actually knew enough about the car to make an accurate simluator of the entire engine, then you know enough to get pretty close to it the first time. The guy that burned my prom got it pretty close in 4 tries. Considering that I can replace the prom in about 5 minutes and burn it in about 5 minutes, with the car testing probably you could get it down to less than 30 minutes a version. That is with practice. Roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 22:18:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17277 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:18:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17273 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:18:00 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-6.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.75]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA24041 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:17:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <013501be07a2$3040c4c0$3b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:21:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Chris Conlon To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:03 PM Subject: RE: O2 sensors at WOT? >> > man's gas analyzer could be constructed using one heated (to measure O2) >> > and one unheated to measure hydrocarbons, etc??? >> No. What the report said (I read it) was that NO O2 sensor senses O2 >> at the temperatures that they operate at. They sense hydrocarbons >> only. The temperature required for them to sense O2 was much higher >> than the O2 sensor in a normal exhaust stream was supposed to be > >I had always heard, but never tested, that the O2 sensor reads *lean* >under conditions of a rich misfire, due to lots of O2 in the exhaust. >Sounds like this would be an easy test to see if the O2 sensor is >really responding to O2 or HC. Comments? Maybe I need to go yank off >a plug wire... I'd suggest a good going over the archives, there are several reports and documents all with slightly different takes on the situations. >From CARB_EPA_SAE all have points and counter points. Some of the older documents don't even mention thermally compensated sensors. Then are you all talking about just the switch type, and or the wide ratio. Also is the way the sensors react to different gases as they heat up Cheers Bruce > > Chris C. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 22:21:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17407 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:21:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17397 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:21:22 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-6.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.75]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA27425 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:21:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <013801be07a2$a65f1c60$3b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:24:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: ECMnut@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with water/alcohol >> injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, >> causing it to evaporate rapidly, absorbing a lot of heat and volume, thus >> reducing boost, which the turbo promptly replaces. This is very efficient >> for street thrillers that don't need more than 10 seconds worth of WOT. >> >I went this route several year ago, and had problems with the alchohol/water >mix having an "abrasive" effect on the compressor wheel. I would not do it >again. BUT I have never seen pistons so sparking clean at teardown time, >as with water injection. A SECOND I WOULDN"T DO THAT. The cetrifical force blows it to the walls anyway. Use lots of pressure downstream of the the turbo. Bruce >HTH >Mike V. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 22:37:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17704 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:37:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17700 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:37:42 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-6.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.75]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA14460 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:37:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <015201be07a4$f0e011c0$3b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: EFI Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:40:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Jon To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:28 PM Subject: Re: EFI > This is an idea I had some time back. How much is known about the 808? Lots, trouble is some of it's locked into a drive that is waiting attention. Go thru the archives there is alot out, and the diagrams are at 332 incoming >Enough to tune for a mild 350? Any ideas on a pinout at the ecm (ie what >changes need to be made to MAF harness)? I DON'T have a eprom burner or the >skills to burn my own chips (yet), but am willing to learn, and I have a >project car begging for this conversion. Thanks for ANY input. >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 1:31 AM >Subject: Re: EFI > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: AJLegere@aol.com >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 10:57 PM >>Subject: Re: EFI >> >> >>>Will this '99 MAF work with a '165 ECM? >> >>Might be a whole lot less work to just change over to a 90-92 MAP. >>Could go MAP with the 165 using the aussie 808 info.. >>Bruce >> > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 22:42:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17766 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:42:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA17762 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:42:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA21285 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:42:09 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:42:08 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 In-Reply-To: <013801be07a2$a65f1c60$3b198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with water/alcohol > >> injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, > >> causing it to evaporate rapidly, absorbing a lot of heat and volume, > thus > >> reducing boost, which the turbo promptly replaces. This is very > efficient > >> for street thrillers that don't need more than 10 seconds worth of WOT. > >> > >I went this route several year ago, and had problems with the > alchohol/water > >mix having an "abrasive" effect on the compressor wheel. I would not do it > >again. BUT I have never seen pistons so sparking clean at teardown time, > >as with water injection. > > A SECOND I WOULDN"T DO THAT. The cetrifical force blows it > to the walls anyway. Use lots of pressure downstream of the the turbo. > Bruce > To add to the comments, I remember being told that if you get your steam too cold and doplets form it is really really hard on the turbine, and I would expect the same thing for a turbo. At the kind of speeds those things run at water is an effective abrasive. If you were going to do water injection put it on the other side of the compressor before the inlet, the effect should be pretty similar. Roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 23:02:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18184 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:02:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18173 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:02:11 -0500 Received: from king ([12.77.24.157]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP id <19981104040138.OLTN9083@king> for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:01:38 +0000 Message-ID: <014801be07a8$c82ac960$77184d0c@king> From: "Jon" To: Subject: Re: EFI Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:08:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks, I'll check it out. Any chance they used an 808 on a 350? Or is it 305(7?) applications only? Thanks Again, Jon -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:42 PM Subject: Re: EFI > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jon >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:28 PM >Subject: Re: EFI > > >> This is an idea I had some time back. How much is known about the 808? > >Lots, trouble is some of it's locked into a drive that is waiting attention. >Go thru the archives there is alot out, and the diagrams >are at 332 incoming > >>Enough to tune for a mild 350? Any ideas on a pinout at the ecm (ie what >>changes need to be made to MAF harness)? I DON'T have a eprom burner or the >>skills to burn my own chips (yet), but am willing to learn, and I have a >>project car begging for this conversion. Thanks for ANY input. >>Jon >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bruce Plecan >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 1:31 AM >>Subject: Re: EFI >> >> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: AJLegere@aol.com >>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 10:57 PM >>>Subject: Re: EFI >>> >>> >>>>Will this '99 MAF work with a '165 ECM? >>> >>>Might be a whole lot less work to just change over to a 90-92 MAP. >>>Could go MAP with the 165 using the aussie 808 info.. >>>Bruce >>> >> > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 23:12:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18504 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:12:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18499 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:12:29 -0500 Received: from beast (sdn-ts-116txfwoRP05.dialsprint.net [206.133.140.136]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA24438 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 20:12:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Barry E. King" To: Subject: RE: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:14:03 -0700 Message-ID: <000b01be07a9$8ed761e0$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <1ed5915d.363fc00a@aol.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You should be injecting the water/alcohol just before the t/b well after the turbine has compressed inlet air. Why was water hitting the compressor wheel? Do you mean the turbine (hot side)? I know people using this technique and it works great. Indy cars of past years didn't use any sort of air charge cooler BUT water injection. Regards, Barry > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of > ECMnut@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 7:47 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 > > > In a message dated 11/3/98 9:37:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, > twsharpe@mtco.com > writes: > > > A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with > water/alcohol > > injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, > > causing it to evaporate rapidly, absorbing a lot of heat and > volume, thus > > reducing boost, which the turbo promptly replaces. This is > very efficient > > for street thrillers that don't need more than 10 seconds worth of WOT. > > > I went this route several year ago, and had problems with the > alchohol/water > mix having an "abrasive" effect on the compressor wheel. I would > not do it > again. BUT I have never seen pistons so sparking clean at teardown time, > as with water injection. > HTH > Mike V. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 23:12:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18514 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:12:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18509 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:12:49 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-37.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.55]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA18440 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:12:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001601be07a9$d82f5280$37198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: weird question I think Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:15:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:44 PM Subject: Re: weird question I think If your changing a relatively few items a emulator ain't a big deal. However, if you redesigning something from the bottom up then it is. Bruce >> Jim wrote: >> >Is there an inexpensive way to make a PC simulate a chip, say >>a prom reader that passes through a PC on the way to the ECM. >>You load the rom code into thePC, and the PC simulates a prom., >>that you could modify parameters to see what Yea, look for >>something called a ROM emulator. Its a box with a cable >> coming out one end which attaches to your ECU (or whatever). >>You download the ROM code image into this box and off you go! >>But I'm not sure how much time this will actually save, and they >>usually aren't too cheap either. >> Bill > >They would not save any time. If you actually knew enough about the car to make an accurate simluator of the entire engine, then you know enough to get pretty close to it the first time. The guy that burned my prom got it pretty close in 4 tries. Considering that I can >replace the prom in about 5 minutes and burn it in about 5 minutes, with the car testing probably you could get it down to less than 30 minutes a version. That is with practice. > Roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 23:18:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18718 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:18:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18714 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:18:05 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA28173 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:17:58 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811040417.WAA28173@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny4-16.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.112) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028162; Tue Nov 3 22:17:35 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:19:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: PIC Questions Priority: normal In-reply-to: <363FA412.2AB7@worldnet.att.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Take a look at the Circuit Cellar website > [http://www.circuitcellar.com/]. It is a magazine dedicated to embedded > control. I can be found on larger magazine stands. They focus on PIC's > and other microcontrollers. There are projects, programs and tools in > each issue. Although its not automotive focused it might be a source of > tools and education for some. > They have had some automotive, A SAE formula challenge fuel injection system for a motorcycle engine 2 issues. The motorolla VPW OBD-2 controllers. alex From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 23:18:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA18731 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:18:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA18723 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:18:13 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA28172 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:17:58 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811040417.WAA28172@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny4-16.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.112) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028162; Tue Nov 3 22:17:31 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:19:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Diacom Priority: normal In-reply-to: <01BE0729.CD210760@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: Carlo Putter > To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" > > Subject: RE: Diacom > Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:59:31 +0200 > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I do not have the address, but am also interested, more so in the physical interface module between the car and the PC serial port. Does anybody have a handdrawn schematic?? Here is a previous post from archives alex > > http://www.coil.com/~apollo/diacom/crack.html > > > > A written desription in ..../crack.html said you need the > > other half of the cable.(WARNING: Offensive language used) > > alex p. > > > > > I wired up that exact diagram and found it to not work. The > > > laptop detects the interface, but that's as far as i ever got > > > with that design. I am trying to communicate with my 7730 ecm. > > > I fooled with it a bit last night and gave up. > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Raymond Brantley wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey guys I found this while surfing around. Don't know if it > > > > will > > > answer any > > > > questions.... > > > > http://www.coil.com/~apollo/diacom/schem1.jpg From diy_efi-owner Tue Nov 3 23:39:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19196 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:39:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19180 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:39:15 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00879 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:39:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:39:10 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: weird question I think In-Reply-To: <001601be07a9$d82f5280$37198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If you were changing code the emulator would be a bit help. Running new virturally untested code on a running car would make me a bit nervious. Having something wrong could damage certain important expensive parts. Changing tables would seem to be pretty minor. I am tempted to write am emulator. I really does not sound that hard, there aren't that many commands. The real difficulty would not be getting the instructions to work, so much as getting the simulated inputs to be correct and meaningful. Roger On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Heflin > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:44 PM > Subject: Re: weird question I think > > > If your changing a relatively few items a emulator ain't a big deal. > However, if you redesigning something from the bottom up then it is. > Bruce > > > >They would not save any time. If you actually knew enough about the car to > make an accurate simluator of the entire engine, then you know enough to get > pretty close to it the first time. The guy that burned my prom got it > pretty close in 4 tries. Considering that I can > >replace the prom in about 5 minutes and burn it in about 5 minutes, with > the car testing probably you could get it down to less than 30 minutes a > version. That is with practice. > > Roger > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 00:03:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA19796 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:03:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA19792 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:03:01 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id PAA03035 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:03:39 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:03:39 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199811040503.PAA03035@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@host.kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: shift light on 808/165 or spare digital output triggered at a RPM Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all I want my 808 to control something at a given RPM. I have heard of some Delco 808/165's having a shift light option. This sound's like what I want. Does anyone know what pin is used and/or if i was to connect a light would it work or would I need a different memcal. If anyone has a memcal for a 808 with a shift light option I would like a copy if they are willing to give it to me. I don't actually want to know when to shift I want to control something at a given RPM but that is a different story... Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 00:08:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA19918 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:08:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mango.bcit.bc.ca (mango.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.166]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA19914 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:08:02 -0500 Received: by mango.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.1 (569.2 2-6-1998)) id 882566B2.001CE573 ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:15:37 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <882566B2.001C7474.00@mango.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:14:30 -0800 Subject: Halp! Allen Engine Analyzer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Gang I was wondering if any one could help me with a Allen 16-000 series engine analyzer. Having probs with scope. Does any one out there have schematics or service info Tnx all :Peter From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 00:18:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20122 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:18:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20118 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:18:54 -0500 From: PMDRACER@aol.com Received: from PMDRACER@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7JXQa02538 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:18:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3e92586a.363fe39c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:18:20 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/3/98 1:41:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, am018@post.almac.co.uk writes: << As a general rule as taught to me by my grandfather who was setting ignitions by ear at the start of this century an over advanced ignition always sounds more powerful -- this could be partially explained (I think) by the fact that it will pick up revs more quickly when reved out of gear. On few cars I have come across (Lotus Elans which had only 20 crank degrees of mechanical advance) retarded ignition has caused pinking ---- I suspect due to hot spots forming from excess rejected heat. >> Well, to be truthful, you will never see full advance curves on a motor revved out of gear. You simply cannot achieve any sort of vacuum to run the advance, so in reality, you are revving the motor with retarded timing. Ignition timing is a factor dictated by today's gasoline. You simply cannot run the amount of ignition advance today that you used to 10 to 20 years ago. The "more is better" rule also does not apply. You can easily go too far, and lose performance (and the motor, under extreme conditions). The idea of ignition timing is to start the ignited fuel's flame front early enough so that the largest explosive force occurs when the piston/rod combination is on it's way down on the combustion stroke. If ignition timing is retarded, (closer to Top Dead Center), the maximum flame front will occur too late, and a loss of potential power will occur. If the ignition timing is too far advanced, (farther before TDC), the maximum flame front will occur too early, and the piston will actually fight the flame front on it's travel upward, causing a pressure spike, and that pressure causing the actual secondary ignition (and flame front) of the remaining fuel. As the two flame fronts meet in the cylinder, a harmonic clashing occurs (audible ping), and instead of the one flame front propagating throughout the cylinder, and creating power, both flame fronts collapse, and power diminishes, along with the real possibility of extensive engine damage! You must also keep in mind that all engines are different. For example, a stock Chevy small block will run with a static timing of 4 deg. advance, and a total of 40 to 44 deg advance at full power. A Pontiac engine, on the other hand, runs with a static timing of 12 to 16 degrees, and 36 to 38 deg of advance at full power. Also keep in mind that if you change an engine's combination of parts (a new cam, heads, etc.) the ignition timing demands will change. Other things that will change an engine's demand for more or less timing is ambient air temp. and density, altitude, humidity, gas quality, load (towing, etc.), and state of tune. Hope this answers your question! PMDRACER@aol.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 00:20:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20192 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:20:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20188 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:20:48 -0500 Received: from MARK (ppp-209-77-89-156.scrm01.pacbell.net [209.77.89.156]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id VAA29706 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:20:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001901be07b3$0d87da20$9c594dd1@MARK> From: "Mark Romans" To: Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:21:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The engine actually stays in closed loop at WOT, it just won't learn and ignores the 02 sensor and goes to a richer "Commanded" air fuel ratio. Per PP Fenske, it the engine has learned to add more fuel via block learn and integrator it will add these same amounts at wot, however if it is pulling fuel out, it will go to 128. If you have diacom it shows what the commanded afr is. My 87 Vette shows 11.91 to one commanded at the higher rpms with the stock chip. GM keeps it safe by keeping it rich. If your engine flows a lot more air than stock and has headers and a modified map you will probably want to add more fuel otherwise before I put the headers on it ran better with less fuel than stock. After headers I had to go richer than stock. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Mark Wilcutts To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:14 AM Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? >On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Bill the arcstarter wrote: > >> I've heard that most ECU's go into an open-loop condition while under >> WOT. I've also heard this is because most O2 sensors read incorrectly >> under WOT conditions. >> >> Why is that? Does the increased gas flow cool the O2 sensor down too >> much or what? > >Might be because WOT enrichment pegs the O2 sensor to the rich side. > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 00:39:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20476 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:39:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20472 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:39:29 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id PAA03459 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:40:09 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:40:09 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199811040540.PAA03459@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@host.kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: DAEWOO NUBIRA MEMCAL WANTED Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am after a Bin from a daewoo nubira. The Daewoo Nubira has a 2litre 4 cylinder. I assume it is a delco p4 ECU not sure but looking under the bonnet it has standard GM/DELCO IAC Valve TPS and single wire o2 sencor all with familuar color coding. Apparently the Daewoo Ciello has a 808 ECU so I assume they all do. any help would be appreciaed. Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 00:44:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20594 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:44:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20590 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:44:48 -0500 From: PMDRACER@aol.com Received: from PMDRACER@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7IMIa17681 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:43:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6c11d598.363fe998@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:43:52 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Another idea that I have been part of is to use either Nitrous Oxide injection into the turbo (cooling effect) or to inject propane into the turbo. The propane gives a cooling effect, and it's octane rating is 120+. PLEASE NOTE! This was done on a Bonneville salt flats race car. I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH. DO NOT DO THIS ON THE STREET!!! PROPANE IS EXPLOSIVE, AND A SERIOUS EXPLOSION CAN OCCUR. Just in case you are wondering, the introduction of propane into our dual- turbo 468 cid 3800 lb vehicle increased trap speed by 27.83 MPH at the end of the flying 5 mile marker. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 00:51:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA20744 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:51:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mole.slip.net (mole.slip.net [207.171.193.16]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA20740 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 00:51:43 -0500 Received: from oak-hiper1b-187-187.dialup.slip.net ([209.209.6.187] helo=slip.net) by mole.slip.net with esmtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zavr3-0006Wx-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:51:41 -0800 Message-ID: <363FECB5.800053C5@slip.net> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 21:57:09 -0800 From: Jeremy Bartlett X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mark Wilcutts wrote: > Might be because WOT enrichment pegs the O2 sensor to the rich side. And then the 02 sensor would try to trigger the ECM/U to lean the mixture which, presumably, you wouldn't want. Hence the open loop at WOT ? Jeremy From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 01:01:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA20863 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:01:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA20859 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:01:49 -0500 From: PMDRACER@aol.com Received: from PMDRACER@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7HCHa04680 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:01:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <556f1ce6.363feda6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:01:10 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/3/98 9:56:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, bartlett@slip.net writes: << Might be because WOT enrichment pegs the O2 sensor to the rich side. And then the 02 sensor would try to trigger the ECM/U to lean the mixture which, presumably, you wouldn't want. Hence the open loop at WOT ? Jeremy >> Actually, the ECU is progtrammed to IGNORE the O2 input at WOT. The ECU is programmed to err on the rich side. A rich mixture is necessary for max power, but a rich mixture will not do internal engine damage like that of a lean mixture will. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 01:21:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA21278 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:21:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21274 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:21:48 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA02696; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:21:46 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id WAA18016; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:21:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811040621.WAA18016@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: PIC Questions To: s2193387@cse.unsw.edu.au Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:21:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (DIY EFI List) In-Reply-To: from "Mos" at Nov 4, 98 03:49:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Re: the LCD code - are you freeling distributing that code? If so, would > you be able to send it to me please? > This is mainly to keep for reference as I have no specific application for > it at the moment, but many possible projects. I just put the whole thing out on: ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/dataaq.zip The lcd code is in lcd.asm. You are welcome to the lcd code, subject to the fact that it is a derivative of the Microchip application note and various LCD faqs. The math routines are derived from Microchip application notes too, so they aren't very interesting. Original code is mine and you are welcome to the AtoD serial bit-banging. The whole thing is posted for educational purposes - enjoy. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 01:27:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA21467 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:27:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21463 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:27:51 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA03206 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:26:03 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id WAA14576 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:25:38 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811040625.WAA14576@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: PIC Questions To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:25:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199811040302.TAA03120@mail.wgn.net> from "Sandy" at Nov 3, 98 07:05:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Check out the microchip site and you will see all that is made. I was just > up and downloaded the datasheets for the16c63 series. They have an overview > of each part so you can browse around and see what each has. Pay special attention to the errata! The A versions are usually better... Orin. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 01:34:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA21632 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:34:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA21627 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:34:30 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04023 for ; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:32:48 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id WAA30438 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:32:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199811040632.WAA30438@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:32:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <01BE0772.9F2634E0@mg-20425422-195.ricochet.net> from "Chris Conlon" at Nov 3, 98 09:40:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I had always heard, but never tested, that the O2 sensor reads *lean* > under conditions of a rich misfire, due to lots of O2 in the exhaust. > Sounds like this would be an easy test to see if the O2 sensor is > really responding to O2 or HC. Comments? Maybe I need to go yank off > a plug wire... Absolutely. An ignition miss will force the mixture rich and can foul up the plugs mighty fast. The O2 sensor really is reacting to oxygen... misfire means lots of oxygen left along with unburnt fuel, but the sensor doesn't care about the fuel and signals lean. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 03:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22681 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:11:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22677 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:11:06 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA04857 for mail_from ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:10:34 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:10:34 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Obviuosly, an Air to Air unit MUST be placed where it can get good air >>flow. >> >>Obviously, the liquid to air rejection unit must be placed where it can >>get >>EVEN MORE air flow. >> >>More to come later. > > > It sounds like you have this whole thing thought out very well, so I >hestitate to make my meager suggestion. A friend of mine who owns an Isuzu >Impulse (which has a top-mounted intercooler) has rigged up a device to >spray ice water onto the IC. There is a switch mounted on the shifter used >to energize the pump when he is deep into the boost; he says there is a >noticeable difference in power when using it (probably due to less pinging), >especially going uphill. Nahhh--not less pinging, although that likely happens, due to higher density of cooler air in the intake manifold. Regards, Greg > Obviously this solution doesn't work too well for long-distance driving, >but at the dragstrip or at a hillclimb it seems to be an economical solution >to the low airflow problem. > >Soren From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 03:17:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22761 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:17:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22756 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:17:47 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05126 for mail_from ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:17:25 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:17:25 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> >> A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with water/alcohol >> >> injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, >> >> causing it to evaporate rapidly, absorbing a lot of heat and volume, >> thus >> >> reducing boost, which the turbo promptly replaces. This is very >> efficient >> >> for street thrillers that don't need more than 10 seconds worth of WOT. >> >> >> >I went this route several year ago, and had problems with the >> alchohol/water >> >mix having an "abrasive" effect on the compressor wheel. I would not do it >> >again. BUT I have never seen pistons so sparking clean at teardown time, >> >as with water injection. >> >> A SECOND I WOULDN"T DO THAT. The cetrifical force blows it >> to the walls anyway. Use lots of pressure downstream of the the turbo. >> Bruce >> >To add to the comments, I remember being told that if you get your >steam too cold and doplets form it is really really hard on the >turbine, and I would expect the same thing for a turbo. At the kind >of speeds those things run at water is an effective abrasive. If you >were going to do water injection put it on the other side of the >compressor before the inlet, the effect should be pretty similar. > > Roger Plus you will avoid the compressor work (and volume capacity) involved in compressing the evaporated portion of the H2O. Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 03:27:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA22879 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:27:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA22874 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 03:27:02 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05465 for mail_from ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:26:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:26:40 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You simply cannot achieve any sort of vacuum to run the advance, >so in reality, you are revving the motor with retarded timing. Ignition timing >is a factor dictated by today's gasoline. You simply cannot run the amount of >ignition advance today that you used to 10 to 20 years ago. The "more is >better" rule also does not apply. More knowlege as to how to design chamber shape and turbulence has at least as much, and likely a whole lot more to do with this than fuel!! I have built engines which would run with no ping at 12 to 14 degrees MORE advance that what made best power! (Lotsa squish, very short flame travel, central plug.) You can easily go too far, and lose >performance See above statement. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 04:03:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA23381 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:03:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (vehicle.ME.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.125.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA23375 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:03:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (markw@localhost) by vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/2.7) with SMTP id BAA31970 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:03:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:03:04 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Wilcutts To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? In-Reply-To: <556f1ce6.363feda6@aol.com> Message-ID: x-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 4 Nov 1998 PMDRACER@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/3/98 9:56:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, bartlett@slip.net > writes: > > << Might be because WOT enrichment pegs the O2 sensor to the rich side. > > And then the 02 sensor would try to trigger the ECM/U to lean the mixture > which, presumably, you wouldn't want. Hence the open loop at WOT ? > > Jeremy >> > > Actually, the ECU is progtrammed to IGNORE the O2 input at WOT. The ECU is > programmed to err on the rich side. A rich mixture is necessary for max power, > but a rich mixture will not do internal engine damage like that of a lean > mixture will. Yep. Another reason for the richer mixture at WOT is to reduce the exhaust temperature (compared to stoich) thus preventing damage to the O2 sensor and catalyst. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 04:09:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA23536 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:09:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (vehicle.ME.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.125.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA23532 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:09:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (markw@localhost) by vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/2.7) with SMTP id BAA32036 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:09:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:09:25 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Wilcutts To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? In-Reply-To: <001901be07b3$0d87da20$9c594dd1@MARK> Message-ID: x-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Question: if the ECM ignores the O2 sensor, in what sense do you mean it stays in closed loop? How can it have added to the block learns if it's ignoring the sensor? On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Mark Romans wrote: > The engine actually stays in closed loop at WOT, it just won't learn and > ignores the 02 sensor and goes to a richer "Commanded" air fuel ratio. Per > PP Fenske, it the engine has learned to add more fuel via block learn and > integrator it will add these same amounts at wot, however if it is pulling > fuel out, it will go to 128. If you have diacom it shows what the commanded From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 04:37:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA23948 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:37:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (leapfrog.almac.co.uk [193.114.248.81]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA23943 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:37:44 -0500 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p9.scotland.net [148.176.232.9]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07268 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:37:38 GMT Message-ID: <36401B44.792DED77@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 09:15:48 +0000 From: am018 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? References: <3e92586a.363fe39c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It is also due to the lag built into a mechanical advance system because of friction and inertia durring very sharp acceleration a mechanical system the actual advance will always lag behind the steady speed setting --- a small ammount but it will always be there. Equally well a mechanical system will always overshoot by a small about if the throttle is lifted suddenly. Any engine that needs a lot of advance is signaling it needs work on the combustion chamber shape to get more power, From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 07:55:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25841 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:55:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25837 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:55:50 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-181.mtco.com [206.69.130.181]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id GAA04168 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:55:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36404F1B.D4B5A33E@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 06:56:59 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 References: <000b01be07a9$8ed761e0$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Barry E. King wrote: > You should be injecting the water/alcohol just before the t/b well after the > turbine has compressed inlet air. > > Why was water hitting the compressor wheel? Do you mean the turbine (hot > side)? > > I know people using this technique and it works great. Indy cars of past > years didn't use any sort of air charge cooler BUT water injection. > > Regards, > > Barry I used a sealed tank , tubing, and an .080 orifice, pressurized by the intake, kind of self regulating, with no ill effects. I only averaged 10k per motor (cast pistons and crank) but the turbo is still working in a Pantera.... Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 08:06:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA25998 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:06:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA25994 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:06:35 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-181.mtco.com [206.69.130.181]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA08562 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:06:33 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <364051A0.669F1D1D@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 07:07:44 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg Hermann wrote: > You simply cannot achieve any sort of vacuum to run the advance, > >so in reality, you are revving the motor with retarded timing. Ignition timing > >is a factor dictated by today's gasoline. You simply cannot run the amount of > >ignition advance today that you used to 10 to 20 years ago. The "more is > >better" rule also does not apply. > > More knowlege as to how to design chamber shape and turbulence has at least > as much, and likely a whole lot more to do with this than fuel!! I have > built engines which would run with no ping at 12 to 14 degrees MORE advance > that what made best power! (Lotsa squish, very short flame travel, central > plug.) > > You can easily go too far, and lose > >performance > > See above statement. > > Regards, Greg 10-4.... Squish usually always helps. With a SBC, run steel rods, .04x gaskets and .000 deck. (you always have to cut the block) Then look at the piston tops and combustion chambers when you tear it down. Amazing... Regatds Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 08:38:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26448 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:38:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26444 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:38:05 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id HAA25510 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:38:02 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199811041338.HAA25510@dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny7-29.ix.netcom.com(206.217.124.157) by dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma025487; Wed Nov 4 07:37:37 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:47:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: PIC Questions Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199811040625.WAA14576@gonzo.wolfenet.com> References: <199811040302.TAA03120@mail.wgn.net> from "Sandy" at Nov 3, 98 07:05:50 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Pay special attention to the errata! The A versions are usually better... This is a brown out reset, was added to most 16C7Cx chips a few years ago. Could be yousfull for low crank voltage. For non asm. LCD drivers, there is code in BASIC stamp app. book also CCS C compiler has functions. These could be posted at there web sites? Also make sure to get the Hitachi LCD data sheet, it is written in rather broken english. Depending on your app. you could delete some routines, such as reading memory and checking for ack. alex From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 08:41:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26528 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:41:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26511 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:41:19 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA17695 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:40:54 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B70@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: PIC Questions Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:40:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Sandy, Just found the chip directory doing a search on NMIX. I'm going to check needhams for the datasheets. Also the page mentions New Micros selling NMIT and NMIX boards for approx $100 (68hc11 based). Thanks. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Sandy [SMTP:sganz@wgn.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:06 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: PIC Questions > > Check out the microchip site and you will see all that is made. I was just > up and downloaded the datasheets for the16c63 series. They have an > overview > of each part so you can browse around and see what each has. > > Sandy From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 08:45:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26688 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:45:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26684 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:45:41 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA18244 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:45:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:45:44 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B71@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: PIC Questions Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:45:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Bill, Found the site and am taking a cyber stroll as we speak! Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill the arcstarter [SMTP:arcstarter@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 8:18 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: PIC Questions > > It was written: > >For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and > describe > >(manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention. Also a brief > >explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming > you > >could find an HC11 board). > > PICs are made by Microchip Technologies, url = http://www.microchip.com > . They are usually small cheap simple RISC-ish processors which include > onboard ram, timers, uarts, etc. Not all models have all options. > > Most PICs have no external address/data us, but are instead chock full > of i/o lines which can be used for all sorts of things. > > I've been fooling with these critters for a couple of years, and I can > only summarize them by saying that "They are neat"! > > For the beginner, the typical part to choose would be the 16C84 or > 16F84. These guys have some eeprom (64 bytes) on the inside and the > program memory is completely flash. Typical home-style development > involves "crash and burn", where the chip is pulled from the target > board, reprogrammed (takes about 20 secs) and reinserted for a try. > This part also has an on-board timer, interrupts, watchdog, low power > sleep mode, 13 i/o lines (any combo of input/output), anti-pilfer code > protection, in-circuit programming and other stuff like that. > > The assembly language is a bit cryptic, but not bad for a person already > experienced in that particular art. All instructions (except for > branches) execute in exactly 1 clock cycle. "C" and/or BASIC > development systems are available but I don't know where. You can clock > the little beggars up to (I think) 10-20 Megahertz. Not bad for a $6 > part! Digikey sell them too. > > Anyone out there using any decent in-circuit emulators, other than > microchip's $3000 Pro-Mate system? I'm looking for something to help me > develop for other non-flash parts, and I hate the UV-erase technique... > There was some sort of ICE-PIC box - which would supposedly let you > program and run in-circuit at realtime clock rates. Anyone seen or > using one of these systems? > > Of course the Atmel AVRs are rather equivalent and fully flash... :) > > Thanks. > -Bill > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 08:47:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26749 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:47:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26745 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:47:22 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA18629 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:47:25 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4B72@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: PIC Questions Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:47:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thank Orin, You're right. Lots of folks jumped in a helped me out. Thank you all. Now, back to school....... rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Orin Eman [SMTP:orin@wolfenet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 8:40 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: PIC Questions > > > > For us novices, could you briefly explain what a PIC is exactly and > describe > > This has now been well covered! > > > (manufacturer / model / part#) the board you mention. Also a brief > > Manufacturer: me > Model: "the data aq board" > Part #: don't have one ;) > > It's an Audi 5 cylinder turbo engine specific board, though it could > be adapted to other Bosch engine management systems. It aquires > ignition timing, a couple of duty cycles, 3 temperatures via > thermocouples and some analog values. These are displayed on > an LCD (2x20) and dumped to serial. > > > explanation of why you would prefer the PIC board to the HC11 (assuming > you > > could find an HC11 board). > > Advantage to the PIC is that you need no external components other than > a crystal and a couple of caps to make it run. HC11 needs RAM at least > (onboard probably not enough) and probably EPROM for final program. > Thats two 28 pin or so chips as well as the CPU. Yes, there are HC11s > with onboard EEPROM, but it is too small to be really useful for code. > > Orin. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 09:02:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27133 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:02:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27128 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:02:42 -0500 From: JTesta1966@aol.com Received: from JTesta1966@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7AISa07908 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:01:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <62e44d72.36405e4d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:01:49 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: weird question I think Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 167 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/3/98 10:23:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, rah@horizon.hit.net writes: << They would not save any time. If you actually knew enough about the car to make an accurate simluator of the entire engine, then you know enough to get pretty close to it the first time. The guy that burned my prom got it pretty close in 4 tries. Considering that I can replace the prom in about 5 minutes and burn it in about 5 minutes, with the car testing probably you could get it down to less than 30 minutes a version. That is with practice. >> Well, unfortunatly for my I know d*ck about prom programming. Thats why I'm here. I want to sdit behind the lines and learn. Only prob is most of the info passed is already over my head. And there apparenntly arent any "kid rated" sites/books to learn. I do NOT know assembler which makes it all worse. I can get software from a friend of mine, (its DOS based, but does the hex conversions by itself) but it only does 86-7 Grand nationals and I dont want to be limited to them only. I've downloaded some prom images, but they dont mean anything to me since other than knowing EFI from a driveability point of view, I dont know what could be changed and the consequences of changing it. If I'm making sense. Anyone wanna hold my hand and teach me?? :-P Jim From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 09:05:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27251 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:05:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27247 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:05:31 -0500 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01J3ROKSPYXS000090@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:05:26 CDT Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 07:38:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <541251.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> into the turbo (cooling effect) or to inject propane into the turbo. -> The propane gives a cooling effect, and it's octane rating is 120+. -> PLEASE NOTE! This was done on a Bonneville salt flats race car. I -> CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH. DO NOT DO THIS ON THE STREET!!! PROPANE IS -> EXPLOSIVE, AND A SERIOUS EXPLOSION CAN OCCUR. Propane is not an explosive, and feeding it ahead of the turbo won't hurt a thing. Lots of Diesels do just that as a power booster, and then there are all those cars (and a few motorcycles, like the semi- factory ATP Kawasakis) with carburetors upstream of the turbo. Now under certain circumstances you could generate a truly impressive backfire, but that's not the same as an explosion. I just love gratuitous safety slobber. Shoelaces! Did you know if your shoelace came untied, you could trip and fall, and your head would split open like a rotten cantaloupe because you weren't wearing a crash helmet?! Shoelaces are only for the use of trained professionals... ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 09:51:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA28327 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:51:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from backup1.csc.com (backup1.csc.com [20.1.107.155]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28323 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:51:21 -0500 From: jdzura@csc.com Received: from va-fch34.vtc.csc.com ([20.1.6.97] helo=csc.com) by backup1.csc.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 0zb4Gh-0002M6-01 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:50:43 -0500 Received: by csc.com(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP MTA v1.1.04 (495.1 10-24-1997)) id 852566B2.0050E19F ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:43:26 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: CSC To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <852566B2.0050D16E.00@csc.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:43:51 -0500 Subject: Re: MAF Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which >works out to 84% or so VE-- Could you elaborate on the math?? Thanks From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 09:54:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA28402 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:54:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (beryl.sol.co.uk [194.247.64.190]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28397 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:54:40 -0500 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p5.scotland.net [148.176.232.5]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27987 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:54:35 GMT Message-ID: <3640658C.30C8D29C@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 14:32:44 +0000 From: am018 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: shift light on 808/165 or spare digital output triggered at a RPM References: <199811040503.PAA03035@host.kenelec.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Alternatively you can make a very simple single chip RPM switch using a National Semiconductor LM2917 N frequency to voltage convertor. The datasheet for this IC gives example circuits. Andy Mcf Stuart Bunning wrote: > Hi all > > I want my 808 to control something at a given RPM. > I have heard of some Delco 808/165's having a shift light option. This > sound's like what I want. > > Does anyone know what pin is used and/or if i was to connect a light would > it work or would I need a different memcal. If anyone has a memcal for a 808 > with a shift light option I would like a copy if they are willing to give it > to me. I don't actually want to know when to shift I want to control > something at a given RPM but that is a different story... > > Best Regards, > > STUART BUNNING > SALES ENGINEER > KENELEC PTY LTD > > 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE > MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 > AUSTRALIA > > PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 > FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 > EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au > WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 10:02:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28614 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:02:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28609 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:02:11 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7PKSa02302 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:01:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8969dfc5.36406c45@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:01:25 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: weird question I think Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Who is your friend? Can I get a copy? In a message dated 11/4/98 9:14:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, JTesta1966@aol.com writes: > . I can > get software from a friend of mine, (its DOS based, but does the hex > conversions by itself) but it only does 86-7 Grand nationals and I dont want > to be limited to them only. I've downloaded some prom images From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 10:25:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29075 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:25:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29071 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:25:41 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7QKa002328 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:24:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:24:49 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Barry E. King wrote: > You should be injecting the water/alcohol just before the t/b well after the > turbine has compressed inlet air. > > Why was water hitting the compressor wheel? Do you mean the turbine (hot > side)? ========================== Hi Barry, I was definitely referring to compressor wheel probs.. I agree with injection AFTER the turbo (and Intercooler)..... The thread originally mentioned injecting water/alky into the turbo inlet... wait, I'll snip Tom S's original message: =====>>>>>>>> snip <<<<<<<========= > A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with water/alcohol > injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, =====>>>>>>> snip <<<<<<<<========== True some indy cars made use of the squirt into the turbo inlet, but they replaced compressor wheels often. They were the "poster child" example, used by turbo books, as for why you shouldn't do it. HTH Mike V From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 10:43:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29400 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:43:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29395 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:43:36 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp80.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.80]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA06777 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:40:13 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003e01be0809$d7d45fa0$507889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:43:16 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > It sounds like you have this whole thing thought out very well, so I >>hestitate to make my meager suggestion. A friend of mine who owns an Isuzu >>Impulse (which has a top-mounted intercooler) has rigged up a device to >>spray ice water onto the IC. There is a switch mounted on the shifter used >>to energize the pump when he is deep into the boost; he says there is a >>noticeable difference in power when using it (probably due to less pinging), >>especially going uphill. > >Nahhh--not less pinging, although that likely happens, due to higher >density of cooler air in the intake manifold. When the knock sensor detects pinging, the ECM retards timing and lowers boost, resulting in a noticeable loss of power (at least in Isuzu/Geo vehicles). Soren From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 10:50:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29504 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:50:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29500 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:50:05 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-157.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.157]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id HAA13125 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:50:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36408683.46CE@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 08:53:23 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 References: <541251.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject of propane injectors has come up several times - Anyone found info/sources? Regards, Jack Dave Williams wrote: > Propane is not an explosive, and feeding it ahead of the turbo won't > hurt a thing. Lots of Diesels do just that as a power booster, and > then there are all those cars (and a few motorcycles, like the semi- > factory ATP Kawasakis) with carburetors upstream of the turbo. Now > under certain circumstances you could generate a truly impressive > backfire, but that's not the same as an explosion. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 11:37:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA30420 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:37:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net [209.178.63.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA30416 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:37:10 -0500 Received: from beast (sdn-ts-116txfwoRP05.dialsprint.net [206.133.140.136]) by magpie.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08431 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:37:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Barry E. King" To: Subject: RE: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:38:53 -0700 Message-ID: <001001be0811$9c021140$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the clarification. I definitely "mist" (groan) that portion of the original post. I can definitely see where spraying the compressor wheel directly or upstream of it would cause premature wear. I have never tried that. I know from experience injecting downstream of the compressor works very well, however, without apparent ill-effects. Regards, Barry > Hi Barry, > I was definitely referring to compressor wheel probs.. > I agree with injection AFTER the turbo (and Intercooler)..... > The thread originally mentioned injecting water/alky into > the turbo inlet... wait, I'll snip Tom S's original message: > > =====>>>>>>>> snip <<<<<<<========= > > A more cost efficient use (cheap) is to cool the turbo with > water/alcohol > > injection into the turbo inlet. The turbo really atomizes the liquid, > =====>>>>>>> snip <<<<<<<<========== > > True some indy cars made use of the squirt into the turbo inlet, > but they replaced compressor wheels often. They were the "poster > child" example, used by turbo books, as for why you shouldn't do it. > HTH Mike V From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 11:58:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA30851 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:58:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA30847 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:58:08 -0500 Message-ID: <19981104165950.10884.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send102.yahoomail.com; Wed, 04 Nov 1998 08:59:50 PST Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:59:50 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Haltech ECMs To: diy efi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I went to www.haltech.com.au and found this e6gm ecm. Supposedly a plug-in replacement for certain GM ecms. Any idea which ones? I searched the archives and found little information. Any experiences with haltech? Andy Q _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 12:52:41 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA31847 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:52:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA31840 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:52:31 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-243.nordson.com [207.206.59.243]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA14094 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:52:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <012101be081b$778337e0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: loud motor = happy motor? Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:48:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Revving an engine out of gear will show max advance. You will have full centrifugal and vacuum advance. Flame fronts do not collide as you describe, the end gas detonates and creates a shock wave. Modern Chevys run best at 32 to 34 degrees. Gary Derian > >> snip >Well, to be truthful, you will never see full advance curves on a motor revved >out of gear. You simply cannot achieve any sort of vacuum to run the advance, >so in reality, you are revving the motor with retarded timing. Ignition timing >is a factor dictated by today's gasoline. snip . If the ignition timing is too far advanced, >(farther before TDC), the maximum flame front will occur too early, and the >piston will actually fight the flame front on it's travel upward, causing a >pressure spike, and that pressure causing the actual secondary ignition (and >flame front) of the remaining fuel. As the two flame fronts meet in the >cylinder, a harmonic clashing occurs (audible ping), and instead of the one >flame front propagating throughout the cylinder, and creating power, both >flame fronts collapse, and power diminishes, along with the real possibility >of extensive engine damage! >You must also keep in mind that all engines are different. For example, a >stock Chevy small block will run with a static timing of 4 deg. advance, and a >total of 40 to 44 deg advance at full power. A Pontiac engine, on the other >hand, runs with a static timing of 12 to 16 degrees, and 36 to 38 deg of >advance at full power. Also keep in mind that if you change an engine's >combination of parts (a new cam, heads, etc.) the ignition timing demands will >change. Other things that will change an engine's demand for more or less >timing is ambient air temp. and density, altitude, humidity, gas quality, load >(towing, etc.), and state of tune. >Hope this answers your question! >PMDRACER@aol.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 13:23:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA32394 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:23:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ucolick.org (lick.ucolick.org [128.114.23.139]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA32390 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:23:26 -0500 Received: from borg.ucolick.org (borg.ucolick.org [128.114.23.231]) by ucolick.org (lick) (8.9.0/LICK-GATEv8) id KAA27238; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:23:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lick.ucolick.org (aku.ucolick.org [128.114.23.155]) by borg.ucolick.org (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA11315 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:23:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <016201be0820$c3fa77a0$9b177280@lick.ucolick.org> From: "Trent Freeman" To: Subject: Anybody there? Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 10:27:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_015F_01BE07DD.B5941420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_015F_01BE07DD.B5941420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How does this list work? How often do you get postings? does everyone = get a copy of this? I was refered here by some guys on the Ferrari list. = My interest is converting a Bosch KJetronic mech.FI'd motor to an EFI'd = EEM'd motor, and looking for input.... ------=_NextPart_000_015F_01BE07DD.B5941420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
How does this list work? How often = do you get=20 postings? does everyone get a copy of this? I was refered here by some = guys on=20 the Ferrari list. My interest is converting a Bosch KJetronic mech.FI'd = motor to=20 an EFI'd EEM'd motor, and looking for = input....
------=_NextPart_000_015F_01BE07DD.B5941420-- From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 13:44:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA32736 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:44:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA32732 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:44:41 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA08876 for mail_from ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:44:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:44:30 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Propane is not an explosive, and feeding it ahead of the turbo won't >hurt a thing. Lots of Diesels do just that as a power booster, and >then there are all those cars (and a few motorcycles, like the semi- >factory ATP Kawasakis) with carburetors upstream of the turbo. Now >under certain circumstances you could generate a truly impressive >backfire, but that's not the same as an explosion. > No it is not. but (Thermo 101 and Fluids !01) gaseous fuel, whether evaporated gasoline or propane, in the intake tract before the intake valve closes, displaces air (oxygen, the stuff you use to burn the fuel to make the power). The lighter the molecular weight of a given gaseous fuel, the higher the percentage of air it displaces, and the more it reduces the power available (at any given final manifold density). Squirting "Happy Juice" in as a coolant is a different story---because a higher percentage of nitrous' molecular weight is in oxygen than is true for air. Therefore, although it displaces air too, it replaces it with MORE oxygen, therefore you can burn more fuel, therefore you go faster. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 13:58:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00182 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:58:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from beryl.sol.co.uk (leapfrog.almac.co.uk [193.114.248.81]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00177 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 13:58:14 -0500 Received: from post.almac.co.uk (e1c1p4.scotland.net [148.176.232.4]) by beryl.sol.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA09545 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:58:04 GMT Message-ID: <36409E6F.A4E52997@post.almac.co.uk> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:35:27 +0000 From: am018 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 References: <541251.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No but Propane air mixture is explosive if ignited within the explosive range as is petrol vapour. Even lube oil mist can be explosive in the right (but extreme) circumstances crankcase explosions are a major hazard on large (ie: meter bore) slow speed marine diesels. ---Just a thought small ammounts of butane are disolved in pump petrol for easy of cold starting could normal roadside gasolene be doped by bubbling camping gas through it. Andy McF Dave Williams wrote: > -> into the turbo (cooling effect) or to inject propane into the turbo. > -> The propane gives a cooling effect, and it's octane rating is 120+. > -> PLEASE NOTE! This was done on a Bonneville salt flats race car. I > -> CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGH. DO NOT DO THIS ON THE STREET!!! PROPANE IS > -> EXPLOSIVE, AND A SERIOUS EXPLOSION CAN OCCUR. > > Propane is not an explosive, and feeding it ahead of the turbo won't > hurt a thing. Lots of Diesels do just that as a power booster, and > then there are all those cars (and a few motorcycles, like the semi- > factory ATP Kawasakis) with carburetors upstream of the turbo. Now > under certain circumstances you could generate a truly impressive > backfire, but that's not the same as an explosion. > > I just love gratuitous safety slobber. Shoelaces! Did you know if > your shoelace came untied, you could trip and fall, and your head would > split open like a rotten cantaloupe because you weren't wearing a crash > helmet?! Shoelaces are only for the use of trained professionals... > > ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== > I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? > my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? > =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 14:05:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00381 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:05:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00376 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:05:30 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p3.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.3]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14165 for mail_from ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:05:20 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:05:20 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: MAF Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >>170 Gm/sec works out to 300 cfm (and about 205 HP) (at sea level), which >>works out to 84% or so VE-- > >Could you elaborate on the math?? > >Thanks 454 grams = 1 lb. (conversion constant) .075 lbs./cubic foot = typical sea level density of air at a reasonable temperature (1) therefore 170 grams per second /454 grams/ lb. = .374 lbs./sec (2) therefore, .374 lbs./sec. x 60 seconds/minute = 22.47 lbs./min. (of air, number used in (3) & (4) below) (3) therefore 22.47 lb/min. / .075 lbs./cubic ft. = 299.6 cubic feet/min. (cfm) of air. (4) therefore, 22.47 lbs./ min. x 60 min/hour = 1348 lbs/hour of air. (5) therefore 1348 lbs./ hour / 13.5 (typical WOT a/f ratio for an NA engine) = 99.87 lbs./hour of fuel (6) therefore 99.87 lbs./ hour of fuel/ .48 lbs. fuel/ brake horsepower hour ( a pretty typical brake specific fuel consumption figure for an NA engine) = 208 Horsepower. (NA = naturally aspirated) Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 14:07:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA00488 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:07:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00484 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:07:50 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p3.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.3]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA14528 for mail_from ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:07:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:07:40 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> It sounds like you have this whole thing thought out very well, so I >>>hestitate to make my meager suggestion. A friend of mine who owns an >Isuzu >>>Impulse (which has a top-mounted intercooler) has rigged up a device to >>>spray ice water onto the IC. There is a switch mounted on the shifter >used >>>to energize the pump when he is deep into the boost; he says there is a >>>noticeable difference in power when using it (probably due to less >pinging), >>>especially going uphill. >> >>Nahhh--not less pinging, although that likely happens, due to higher >>density of cooler air in the intake manifold. > > > When the knock sensor detects pinging, the ECM retards timing and lowers >boost, resulting in a noticeable loss of power (at least in Isuzu/Geo >vehicles). When you start changing more than one variable at once, it will INVARIABLY confuse ANY issue!! Are you too wise to have ever tried to argue with a woman?? That is how they always win!! Regards, Greg > >Soren From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 14:45:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01346 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:45:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01341 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:45:11 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7CBLa04680 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:44:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5f98d844.3640ae97@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:44:23 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Isuzu Turbo Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone have a bin from one of these Isuzu turbos? Thx Mike V > When the knock sensor detects pinging, the ECM retards timing and lowers > boost, resulting in a noticeable loss of power (at least in Isuzu/Geo > vehicles). > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 15:47:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA02415 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:47:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from piglet.cc.utexas.edu (chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu [128.83.42.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02411 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:47:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (chickens@localhost) by piglet.cc.utexas.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1/piglet.mc-1.8) with SMTP id OAA27777 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:47:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:47:13 -0600 (CST) From: Jake Sternberg X-Sender: chickens@piglet.cc.utexas.edu To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: CALPAK for smallblock V8 In-Reply-To: <199811041000.FAA24303@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have a P4 style calpak/memcal/whatever you call it for a smallblock chevy V8 engine that they're not using? I don't care what the ROM in it is, i'm replacing that with a socket, but i need the correct ESC and knock circuitry for a V8. Thanks, -Jake From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 16:00:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA02584 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:00:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ar.ar.com.au (root@ar.ar.com.au [203.18.148.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA02580 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:00:56 -0500 Received: from kojab.ar.com.au (dialup146.ar.com.au [203.18.148.146]) by ar.ar.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/AR-1.1) with SMTP id IAA27567 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:02:49 +1100 Message-ID: <3640CD15.579E@ar.com.au> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 07:54:29 +1000 From: Richard Wakeling X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Haltech ECMs References: <19981104165950.10884.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Andy, I know the E6GM was made to be compatable with the Aussie 808. I dont believe it will ever be as good as the original GM but I am biased of course. Cheers Richard. andy quaas wrote: > > I went to www.haltech.com.au and found this e6gm ecm. Supposedly a > plug-in replacement for certain GM ecms. Any idea which ones? I > searched the archives and found little information. Any experiences > with haltech? > > Andy Q > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 17:01:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03655 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:01:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bbmail1.unisys.com (bbmail1.unisys.com [192.63.108.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03650 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:01:01 -0500 Received: from trsvr.tr.unisys.com (trsvr.tr.unisys.com [192.63.216.7]) by bbmail1.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09106; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:59:38 GMT Received: from tr-exchange-2.tr.unisys.com by trsvr.tr.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA17423 ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:59:18 GMT Received: by tr_exchange_2.tr.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:02:36 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Falb, John" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" , diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Easy question Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:52:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a circuit diagram for a DIY shift light that I am going to make. It is based on a LM2927 and LM358N. There are circuits that look like this but I don't know what they are. Can you name that circuit? _______||_____________ || 0.1 uF Thanks for the help. No flames please john falb From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 17:01:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03669 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:01:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bbmail1.unisys.com (bbmail1.unisys.com [192.63.108.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03665 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:01:32 -0500 Received: from trsvr.tr.unisys.com (trsvr.tr.unisys.com [192.63.216.7]) by bbmail1.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA09106; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:59:38 GMT Received: from tr-exchange-2.tr.unisys.com by trsvr.tr.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA17423 ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:59:18 GMT Received: by tr_exchange_2.tr.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:02:36 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Falb, John" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" , diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Easy question Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 16:52:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a circuit diagram for a DIY shift light that I am going to make. It is based on a LM2927 and LM358N. There are circuits that look like this but I don't know what they are. Can you name that circuit? _______||_____________ || 0.1 uF Thanks for the help. No flames please john falb From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 17:02:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03687 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:02:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f197.hotmail.com [207.82.251.86]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA03681 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:02:16 -0500 Received: (qmail 13709 invoked by uid 0); 4 Nov 1998 22:01:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19981104220130.13708.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 199.217.140.22 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Nov 1998 14:01:29 PST X-Originating-IP: [199.217.140.22] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 14:01:29 PST Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It was written: >Subject of propane injectors has come up several times - Anyone >found info/sources? > >Regards, Jack No, not yet, but I'm looking for them frantically! I *will* have more to say about this very soon... heh heh heh -Bill the arcstarter Starting arcs in Cinci, OH http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6160 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 17:05:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA03809 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:05:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA03800 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:05:46 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id IAA10350 for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:06:24 +1000 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:06:24 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199811042206.IAA10350@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@host.kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: RE: Easy Knock sensor test Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 12:23 PM 29/10/98 -0800, you wrote: >me too. Thanks. > >> >I have at home GM specs on the knock sensors for the 4, 6 and 8 cyl GM >> >cars/trucks from the past 15 years, they all are designed >> around specific >> >frequency's. >> > >> >I can send the data for the sensors and part numbers if anyone is >> >interested. >> > >> >Basically, use the correct sensor for you type of engine if you >> are adding >> >knock sensing. > > > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 17:47:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04877 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:47:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send1b.yahoomail.com (send1b.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.23]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA04873 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:47:51 -0500 Message-ID: <19981104224720.20580.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send1b; Wed, 04 Nov 1998 14:47:20 PST Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:47:20 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Re: Easy question To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Looks like a capacitor of .1 microfarads (sp?). andy Q ---"Falb, John" wrote: > > I have a circuit diagram for a DIY shift light that I am going to make. > It is based on a LM2927 and LM358N. There are circuits that look like > this but I don't know what they are. Can you name that circuit? > > _______||_____________ > || > 0.1 uF > > > > Thanks for the help. No flames please > john falb > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 17:51:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA04982 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:51:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ha1.rdc1.az.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.az.home.com [24.1.240.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA04977 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:51:50 -0500 Received: from beast ([24.1.193.136]) by ha1.rdc1.az.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA8985 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:51:37 -0800 From: "Barry E. King" To: Subject: RE: Easy question Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:53:25 -0700 Message-ID: <000901be0845$ee7d3060$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Oh. I know this one. That would be a 0.1 micro-Farad ceramic (likely) capacitor. Barry > -----Original Message----- > I have a circuit diagram for a DIY shift light that I am going to make. > It is based on a LM2927 and LM358N. There are circuits that look like > this but I don't know what they are. Can you name that circuit? > > _______||_____________ > || > 0.1 uF > > > > Thanks for the help. No flames please Flames? On a list? > john falb From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 18:22:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05664 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:22:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05660 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:22:03 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-19.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.37]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id SAA07176 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:21:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <016001be084a$59a2dbc0$25198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: weird question I think Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:24:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: JTesta1966@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 9:29 AM Subject: Re: weird question I think There is a whole series of stuff about starting at ground zero. Start at the DIY_EFI Home Page, and 332 incoming and get everything related to programming 101+808, research the archives for tables map fuel and spark. Lots of Data Bruce >Well, unfortunatly for my I know d*ck about prom programming. Thats why I'm >here. I want to sdit behind the lines and learn. Only prob is most of the info >passed is already over my head. And there apparenntly arent any "kid rated" >sites/books to learn. I do NOT know assembler which makes it all worse. I can >get software from a friend of mine, (its DOS based, but does the hex >conversions by itself) but it only does 86-7 Grand nationals and I dont want >to be limited to them only. I've downloaded some prom images, but they dont >mean anything to me since other than knowing EFI from a driveability point of >view, I dont know what could be changed and the consequences of changing it. >If I'm making sense. Anyone wanna hold my hand and teach me?? :-P > >Jim > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 18:34:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05919 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:34:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05915 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:34:18 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-19.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.37]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id SAA19695 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:33:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01b201be084c$1a940ec0$25198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Haltech ECMs Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:37:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: andy quaas To: diy efi Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:28 PM Subject: Haltech ECMs >I went to www.haltech.com.au and found this e6gm ecm. Supposedly a >plug-in replacement for certain GM ecms. Any idea which ones? I >searched the archives and found little information. Any experiences >with haltech? There is a demo software at there site, answers alot of FAQ. MAP types. TBI/TPI. Minor repinning for use with anything. 1-3bar MAP sensors. Something like 22x32 tables. No prom R+Rs. 3 gen F-Body GP til 11/16. Some outfit outta florida (Force-EFI?), Rob has the answers. 90 warranty. Bruce > >Andy Q > > > > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 19:05:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06453 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:05:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sacapuntas.efortress.com (rad1.edgenet.net [205.181.175.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA06449 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:05:50 -0500 Received: from vettenuts by sacapuntas.efortress.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA17649; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:10:07 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981104185639.007bb870@pop.efortress.com> X-Sender: vettenuts@pop.efortress.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:56:39 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: The Thibodeaus Subject: Update on L-98 Pinging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I talked to Performance Resource today and they have reprogrammed a portion of the chip where I was having a severe ping with my 90 Vette. They stated that they pulled out 3 degrees of advance and richened the mixture. My question is, this is a low speed problem, i.e., pulling at 1/3 to /12 throttle from 25 mph to 35 mph. If the engine is closed loop, how can you alter the mixture so it is richer. Is there a table for desired AF ratio to match the BLM numbers? They also want me to move my MAT sensor from where I re-located it (intake tubing) to the stock location in the TPI plenum. This will signal the ECM that the air is warmer. Wouldn't this tend to lean out the mixture? I am not sure what they are trying to accomplish with these changes as they don't make much sense to me. Does anyone see the logic in these changes? Bob T From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 19:15:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06660 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:15:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06656 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:15:31 -0500 From: PMDRACER@aol.com Received: from PMDRACER@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7GZTa02343 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:14:48 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <4c339c93.3640edf8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:14:48 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 170 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Propane is not an explosive??? Go back to elementary school young man. Or, at least back to basic Jr. High chemistry! Propane IS an explosive. My proof is the 4200 lb van sitting in my driveway that runs on the stuff. If you are still not convinced, turn on the gas (propane) to your barbecue for a few seconds, lean over the grill, and light a match underneath it. You should then be able to witness firsthand whether or not Propane is explosive. That is of course if your mommy lets you play with matches. As for the safety slobber remark - they make special helmets for people like you, (complete with face masks for that complete "I'm a moron" look), that cannot tie their shoelaces and trip on them constantly. From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 19:20:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06768 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:20:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06764 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:20:38 -0500 From: AJLegere@aol.com Received: from AJLegere@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7MFZa10441 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:19:37 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <2dcdc1d9.3640ef19@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:19:37 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Excellent questions! Took the words out of my mouth! Any suggestions on MAF to MAP conversion and the flexibility of the '808? AJL From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 19:22:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06847 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:22:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.twd.net (mail.third-wave.com [147.72.92.154]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06843 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:22:50 -0500 Received: from default (inda42.westol.com [147.72.88.57]) by mail.twd.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA24347 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:16:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000901be0852$82d218a0$39584893@default> From: "Curtis Mittong" To: Subject: the new guy Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:23:27 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just a brief intro. My name is Curtis and I've been restoring (translated: making a daily driver of) my 66 Bonneville. I was turned on to the list by visiting Tom Matthew's page. I know alot about mechanics of engines, but I'm afraid I'm short on knowledge in the EFI areas. I learn very quickly though and hopefully I can offer useful information instead of just sapping you folks! I am a 25-year old student of music at Indiana University of PA, in Indiana, PA; and my other car is a 96 Impala SS. Looking forward to much info! Curtis Mittong From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 19:28:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06981 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:28:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06976 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 19:28:12 -0500 Received: from pii500 ([12.79.161.124]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP id <19981105002807.EKME8003@pii500> for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:28:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3640F131.6950@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:28:33 -0500 From: "ron.boley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? References: <013501be07a2$3040c4c0$3b198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce, Can you advise where one can see these archives (CARB,EPA,SAE)? Does one have to belong to these organizations to get access? Thanks Ron Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Conlon > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:03 PM > Subject: RE: O2 sensors at WOT? > > >> > man's gas analyzer could be constructed using one heated (to measure > O2) > >> > and one unheated to measure hydrocarbons, etc??? > >> No. What the report said (I read it) was that NO O2 sensor senses O2 > >> at the temperatures that they operate at. They sense hydrocarbons > >> only. The temperature required for them to sense O2 was much higher > >> than the O2 sensor in a normal exhaust stream was supposed to be > > > >I had always heard, but never tested, that the O2 sensor reads *lean* > >under conditions of a rich misfire, due to lots of O2 in the exhaust. > >Sounds like this would be an easy test to see if the O2 sensor is > >really responding to O2 or HC. Comments? Maybe I need to go yank off > >a plug wire... > > I'd suggest a good going over the archives, there are several reports > and documents all with slightly different takes on the situations. > >From CARB_EPA_SAE all have points and counter points. > Some of the older documents don't even mention thermally compensated > sensors. Then are you all talking about just the > switch type, and or the wide ratio. Also is the way the sensors > react to different gases as they heat up > Cheers > Bruce > > > > > Chris C. > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 20:04:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07840 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:04:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07836 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:04:07 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-5.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.23]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id UAA24830 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:03:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000601be0858$a7cb10c0$17198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:07:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: ron.boley To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 7:53 PM Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? DIY_EFI Homepage, Click on Search the archives, go by subject or content. lots of reading Bruce >Bruce, > >Can you advise where one can see these archives (CARB,EPA,SAE)? Does >one have to belong to these organizations to get access? > >Thanks Ron > >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chris Conlon >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:03 PM >> Subject: RE: O2 sensors at WOT? >> >> >> > man's gas analyzer could be constructed using one heated (to measure >> O2) >> >> > and one unheated to measure hydrocarbons, etc??? >> >> No. What the report said (I read it) was that NO O2 sensor senses O2 >> >> at the temperatures that they operate at. They sense hydrocarbons >> >> only. The temperature required for them to sense O2 was much higher >> >> than the O2 sensor in a normal exhaust stream was supposed to be >> > >> >I had always heard, but never tested, that the O2 sensor reads *lean* >> >under conditions of a rich misfire, due to lots of O2 in the exhaust. >> >Sounds like this would be an easy test to see if the O2 sensor is >> >really responding to O2 or HC. Comments? Maybe I need to go yank off >> >a plug wire... >> >> I'd suggest a good going over the archives, there are several reports >> and documents all with slightly different takes on the situations. >> >From CARB_EPA_SAE all have points and counter points. >> Some of the older documents don't even mention thermally compensated >> sensors. Then are you all talking about just the >> switch type, and or the wide ratio. Also is the way the sensors >> react to different gases as they heat up >> Cheers >> Bruce >> >> > >> > Chris C. >> > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 20:24:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08395 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:24:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailhost1.attcanada.net (mailhost1.attcanada.net [206.191.82.42]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08391 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:24:16 -0500 Received: from d238-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net ([142.194.124.238]) by mailhost1.attcanada.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118) with SMTP id <19981105002621.FBV7900@d238-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:26:21 +0000 Received: by d238-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BE0820.A6119B60@d238-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:26:33 -0700 Message-ID: <01BE0820.A6119B60@d238-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> From: Marc Piccioni To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: EFI Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:57:02 -0700 Encoding: 16 TEXT, 40 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No suggestions, sorry but I'm interested in your progress as I am also building a 434 SBC. ---------- From: AJLegere@aol.com[SMTP:AJLegere@aol.com] Sent: November 2, 1998 7:56 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EFI Will this '99 MAF work with a '165 ECM? I'm working on a 434 SBC (very over stroked 400 SBC). I'm concerned with the flow capaciity or ultimately the pressure drop accross the existing MAF which came from a donor '87 350 Firebird. Is the '165 a voltage or frequency output MAF? Any suggestions? begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(B$!`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3DW\3("TMZI`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````& ```&UP:6-C:6]N:4!A M='1C86YA9&$N;F5T``,`!A!L[1``@0`0```&4```!.3U-5 M1T=%4U1)3TY3+%-/4E)90E5424U)3E1%4D535$5$24Y93U524%)/1U)%4U-! M4TE!34%,4T]"54E,1$E.1T$T,S130D,M+2TM+2TM+2TM1E)/33I!2DQ%1T52 M14!!3TQ#``````(!"1 !````N@(``+8"``#&! ``3%I&=9TGN]+_``H!#P(5 M`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B?,C4U`H '"H$-L0M@;F0 = '8 =T0,09 N 0F<@ M$" T,S0&`$(80RX@"H4*BVQI,00X, +1:2TQ-#3/#? ,T"03"UDQ-@J@`V#U M$]!C!4 M)C<*AR3K###U);9&`V$Z)SXEM@R"%+"82DQE'. 7H$!A!O "+@6@ M;5M33510^CHJ_ETFWR?M!F ","D?*RHK'(!V$^!B!) @,@$=8#$Y.3@@-SI@ M-38@4$TM;R?M5$YO+Z\J*R$P>5\-P&DF0#=!&N R+@GP9R[4;V@=("T3P&$3 MT#?@C&1U,P\N?G5B:B7Q$S4O*BM293N 149)"!^*#&@';$QD07 $\ #8&OK'N$D,# ATBDB$!XB!:"\;F,$D1[A0D-! M(&4*A24:<&\'X&-A"K!C:<]"4!W 1' %P'5L'1 `P/T3T&P=P$A1'X$?X0AP M2O"J9 -@<" 08P4`;P01^4K297@$`!T0(5%!LSA ?Q%P"H5)0 > 2. #82%Q M9 ,"( 6Q)S@W(#,U*4:@1FD7H&)/\&0N[T-63%1"LR& =@;P`9 19$=\)9P'?%!L3\]W$%N'<#O'+E3O3Z_%40R$K EM@J%!1;!`%E0 M```#`! 0``````,`$1 `````0 `',, ?SLVW![X!0 `(,, ?SLVW![X!'@`] 3``$````%````4D4Z( ````!+)0`' ` end From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 20:35:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08643 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:35:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08638 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:35:55 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-18.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.18]) by mail.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA23781 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:35:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811050135.UAA23781@mail.lig> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:35:48 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Update on L-98 Pinging In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981104185639.007bb870@pop.efortress.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 06:56 PM 11/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >I talked to Performance Resource today and they have reprogrammed a portion >of the chip where I was having a severe ping with my 90 Vette. They stated >that they pulled out 3 degrees of advance and richened the mixture. My >question is, this is a low speed problem, i.e., pulling at 1/3 to /12 >throttle from 25 mph to 35 mph. If the engine is closed loop, how can you >alter the mixture so it is richer. Is there a table for desired AF ratio >to match the BLM numbers? They also want me to move my MAT sensor from They probably made the ECM go to Power Enrichment sooner... >where I re-located it (intake tubing) to the stock location in the TPI >plenum. This will signal the ECM that the air is warmer. Wouldn't this >tend to lean out the mixture? It mainly affects timing... The warmer the MAT, the less timing the ECM gives... This may be how they remove 3 degrees of timing! Later, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 20:52:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA08943 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:52:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA08939 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:52:39 -0500 Received: from pii500 ([12.79.161.124]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.03 118 118 102) with SMTP id <19981105014358.GIEI8003@pii500> for ; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:43:58 +0000 Message-ID: <364102F8.7426@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:44:24 -0500 From: "ron.boley" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? References: <000601be0858$a7cb10c0$17198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce, I may be missing something but the archives just list references to the papers. I'd like to see the actual papers.... How does one do that? Ron Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: ron.boley > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 7:53 PM > Subject: Re: O2 sensors at WOT? > > DIY_EFI Homepage, Click on Search the archives, go by subject or content. > lots of reading > Bruce > > >Bruce, > > > >Can you advise where one can see these archives (CARB,EPA,SAE)? Does > >one have to belong to these organizations to get access? > > > >Thanks Ron > > > >Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Chris Conlon > >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:03 PM > >> Subject: RE: O2 sensors at WOT? > >> > >> >> > man's gas analyzer could be constructed using one heated (to measure > >> O2) > >> >> > and one unheated to measure hydrocarbons, etc??? > >> >> No. What the report said (I read it) was that NO O2 sensor senses O2 > >> >> at the temperatures that they operate at. They sense hydrocarbons > >> >> only. The temperature required for them to sense O2 was much higher > >> >> than the O2 sensor in a normal exhaust stream was supposed to be > >> > > >> >I had always heard, but never tested, that the O2 sensor reads *lean* > >> >under conditions of a rich misfire, due to lots of O2 in the exhaust. > >> >Sounds like this would be an easy test to see if the O2 sensor is > >> >really responding to O2 or HC. Comments? Maybe I need to go yank off > >> >a plug wire... > >> > >> I'd suggest a good going over the archives, there are several reports > >> and documents all with slightly different takes on the situations. > >> >From CARB_EPA_SAE all have points and counter points. > >> Some of the older documents don't even mention thermally compensated > >> sensors. Then are you all talking about just the > >> switch type, and or the wide ratio. Also is the way the sensors > >> react to different gases as they heat up > >> Cheers > >> Bruce > >> > >> > > >> > Chris C. > >> > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 21:24:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA09484 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:24:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f224.hotmail.com [207.82.251.115]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA09474 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:24:41 -0500 Received: (qmail 10338 invoked by uid 0); 5 Nov 1998 02:23:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19981105022357.10337.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.68.37.251 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:23:56 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.68.37.251] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 18:23:56 PST Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello Dave. Just a short note. > Propane is not an explosive, and feeding it ahead of the turbo won't >hurt a thing. Lots of Diesels do just that as a power booster, and This is good to know. I plan on doing some sort of propane EFI project in the very near future, if I can find the proper (or even the wrong) injectors for the job... > I just love gratuitous safety slobber. Shoelaces! Did you know if >your shoelace came untied, you could trip and fall, and your head would >split open like a rotten cantaloupe because you weren't wearing a crash >helmet?! Shoelaces are only for the use of trained professionals... Geez. Next you're going to tell me that you actually DRIVE your car around... How wreckless... >==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== >I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? >my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? Domo ari gato Mr. Roboto! -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 21:50:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA10003 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:50:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA09998 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:50:51 -0500 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01J3SFAL4SI8000090@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 20:50:41 CDT Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 20:15:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: [Fwd: [M] [M} IC Thermodynamics]- Part 3 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <541679.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Propane is not an explosive??? Go back to elementary school young -> man. Or, at least back to basic Jr. High chemistry! Propane IS an -> explosive. My proof is the 4200 lb van sitting in my driveway that -> runs on the stuff. If you are still not convinced, turn on the gas -> (propane) to your barbecue for a few seconds, lean over the grill, -> and light a match underneath it. You should then be able to witness -> firsthand whether or not Propane is explosive. Proof? All your demonstration proves is that propane is flammable. Look up the difference between "flammable" and "explosive." There is a difference. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 22:15:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA10402 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:15:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10397 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:15:19 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-39.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.39]) by mail.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA20529 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:15:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199811050315.WAA20529@mail.lig> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:15:13 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: GM P6 PCM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, Making progress with the P6 PCM from my 95 LeSabre... Delco came back and said the 16156598 chip is the GMP6 CPU and it is a variant of the Motorola MC68HC11F1 (Though GM/Delco discontinued it...). I've been tracing address lines and data lines... Data Lines D0 thru D7 go to: pins 42-35 on the 16056597 chip (52 Pin PLCC), Pins 43,42,39-34 on the 16072449 chip (68 pin PLCC) and pins 5-2 & 67-63 on the 16066285 chip (68 pin PLCC). Address lines A0-A15 all go to the Memcal (27C512 chip), but A0-A10 only go to pins 53 & 51-42 of the 16066285 chip... None of the address lines go to any of the other large chips on the board. Not sure if this helps anyone or not, and hopefully will have a little more info from Delco on the rest of the chips in the next day or so. Thanks, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Nov 4 22:15:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA10408 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:15:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -