From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 02:23:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA32086 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:23:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA32082 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:23:44 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-133.mtco.com [206.69.130.133]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id BAA07455 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:23:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <366399C8.E46988D7@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 01:24:56 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: HC11 & Edelbrock ProFlow References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I forgot where I got them.... from a list of op codes somewhere. 7B (D) 6B (X) 186B (Y) = TIM (Test immediate to memory????) 75 (D) 65 (X) 1865 (Y) = EIM (same as EORA except to memory) 72 (D) 62(X) 1862 (Y) = OIM (same as ORAA except to memory) Regards Tom thergen@svn.net wrote: > What are the hex codes for the instructions? How did you determine the > mnemonics? > > Tom > > On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > Group, > > > > I've almost finished my disassembler for the HC11 but I still have > > problems. The 32K ROM from my Proflow (165 pages of source code) has > > TIM, EMI, and OIM instructions. None of my (Motorola free) assemblers > > will handle it. I'm down to 4 errors.... HELP > > > > Tia Tom > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 03:11:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA32539 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:11:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA32535 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:11:57 -0500 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7ZSQa22870 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:11:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:11:06 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/25/98 12:16:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, mwichstr@online.no writes: << From: mwichstr@online.no (Espen Hilde) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a question that I have been thinking about lately. In a engine with high overlap cam and sequential efi,how to measure air fuel ratio? At certain points in the rpm scale the engine is scavenging air right trough the engine.(I presume) At overlap.The sequential efi will not inject fuel to this amount of air.(not supposed to....) The result as I see it,is that air is pulled trough to the exhaust system.The ox sensor (if it sensors 02) will say this is a lean condition. Am I worthy of a coned shaped hat? Espen Hilde Hi Espen In my expereince, I have noticed Oxygen will transport to the exhaust during a missfire or through heavy overlap cycles.............but with a wide range O2 sensor which is supposed to concentrate on HC, it does not always translate,,,at this point it is good to monitor EGT as well as long as it is close enough so that you can get a reasonable transport delay reaction.....hth's -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 03:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA00038 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:35:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA00034 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:35:32 -0500 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7HIPa03138 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:34:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <61da6ba9.3663aa1d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:34:37 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/25/98 5:32:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, JemisonR@tce.com writes: << Subj: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Date: 11/25/98 5:32:38 AM Pacific Standard Time From: JemisonR@tce.com (Jemison Richard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ('diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu') Wow, if this isn't an opportunity to make a fool of myself I don't know what is. Overlap is introduced by the cam designer to improve scavenging of the cylinder and maximize fresh charge (new fuel / air) into the cylinder. To do this, the concept of overlap sacrifices fuel economy and an orderly intake/exhaust processing - rather muddling both processes together. The idea works generally in a narrow rpm band (the more scavenging, the narrower the band - thought this is also influenced by valve lift and assymetrical cam lobes, etc). BTW, this can be fine tuned with intake and exhaust lengths (that's another story). The point of all this (and I'm very new to efi so take this for whatever you feel it's worth); but from a newbie's point of view, O2 sensing specifically and air/fuel measurement in general are pretty much worthless in this situation just because of the lack of process (intake/exhaust cycle) control. Everything is sort of happening at once, so trying to "tune" the mixture based on a test sample of burnt fuel along with some fresh charge seems pretty worthless. This is why those ultra simple constant flow injection setups worked so good! FWIW, carbs also have some problems with cam profiles like this. Actually, might be worth the effort to forget the sequential efi (unless you want to impress everyone in the staging area with your flawless idle quality) and just batch it (I just found out about this and it has changed my whole outlook on efi!). You have that much cam, you're not idling anyway! rick Hi Rick, I enjoy discussing camshafts and overlap cyles for a desired result,,,,,what we have with EFI that carburetion has no concept, is wall wetting ......with efi we can build a model inside the computers "brain"(enhanced closed loop) to discover what happens when a camshaft produces pulses into the intake manifold.....originally it was tried through the EGR cyle of the computer which in its truest sense is what it really is...so if you can measure the mass flow of the fuel and the mass flow of the air, then decifer the waste and know what to do from there with the dynamics of the entire system you can correct anything.....this is the goal of ULEV,(Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) which is supposed to be here in 2004, ultimate efficiency...which of course equates to ultimate HP with a given fuel...I guess I may not have answered your querry but the list can expand from here...............hth's -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 04:28:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA00546 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:28:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA00542 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:28:20 -0500 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7OZTa26092 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:27:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <487c5d0f.3663b696@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:27:50 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Injector control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 11/26/98 8:47:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, bearbvd@sni.net writes: << Subj: Re: Injector control Date: 11/26/98 8:47:26 AM Pacific Standard Time From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg Hermann >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 10:02 AM >Subject: Re: Injector control > > >>>Hi Greg, >>>A couple of thoughts regarding PW. >>>1). The smaller you make the PW (resolution) the more Processing Power >>>(MIPS) you need in an ECC or it forces the manufacturer to adds an >>>automatic sequencer so as to keep the costs under control. >>>2). Those of us who do performance modifications would like to add >>>larger injectors. With the low cost ECC's you wrestle with a large >>>minimum PW which complicates idle and emmisions. >>>Ron >>I thought that was what I was trying to say!! Sure, you need more >>processing power and a faster processor to get smaller pw resolution. With >>a bigger injector, you need a shorter pw (higher turndown ratio) to get an >>idle that works. so you go to p&h injectors, but if you do not have fine >>enough pw resolution, you still do not get decent idle tuning. Like >>anything else, you get to spend more money to do it right!! >>>> Regards, Greg > >Wouldn't just using a lower fuel pressure work?. So as to at least have the >injector fully on?. Do a rising rate device, rather than a >1:1.. That one Bosch PWM FPR is beginning to sound better >all the time. >Bruce Sure--adjusting fuel pressure will get you where you need to go to adjust idle properly if you are stuck with big % steps in fuel delivery and pw at idle. And this is a perfectly appropriate way to make do if tuning with a cheap ecm (GM?). My real points are: That Hal-tek, Accel, and apparently Electromotive (see Espen's post) are selling stuff that is nearly useless for street tuning if their pw increment is 64 us! That we should do our best to set the 332 project up to give really fine pw increments--like 2us--there's certainly enough processore there to do that, and this is a damn good reason to do so!! That guys should be aware of the nature of the problem when deciding what unit to spend their money on, and why they might just maybe want to spend more! That it is guaranteed that the only reason that GM spent the money to get 16 us pw increments (if that is really what they get) was idle emissions-if they did not HAVE to have done it, they would not have! I agree completely that mechanical injector (and fuel inertia) behavior becomes a big factor at very short pw's, but without small enough pw increment capability on the electronic side, we really do not have any kind of an accurate idea of exactly HOW short a pulse is possible before that factor takes over! Given the large pw increment that the DFI/Accel ecu is stuck with, I quit believing anything that they say about injector limitations! Did not know that Bosch was making a PWM FPR--tell me more. And tell Grumpy not to eat too much!! Regards, Greg Hi All, It seems as though we are all arguing about injector control..comparing it against mechanical and why it doesn't compare......if any of you have seen a true tuned mechanical fuel injectioned system you would see different sizes of nozzles per cylinder because of transport delays.....and it only covers up the transients of acceleration of the engine....it does not even come close to what happens in steady state conditions.........but this is drag racing.....in an environment that has to do steady state and transients, a model of what happens has to be built and learned upon......this is the gummints job to understand or they cannot meet the up and coming legislation passed by people that have no clue.......yeah I'd like to sit and bitch about it but it's a true horror for all of us that like to improve our vehicles....if we can introduce the technology from the aftermarket to the EPA,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we can finally show them what true emissions is.........efficiency.....getting it all from what we put in......I guarantee 99% of the gurus at the big three level that make decisions have no idea what any of us are even talking about....they want their numbers...set up by a bunch of people who don't know what it takes to make the numbers happen...........what's the fix?????make some noise..... -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 06:10:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA01674 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:10:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA01665 for diy_efi; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:10:01 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:10:01 -0500 From: John S Gwynne Message-Id: <199812011110.GAA01665@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. To post: Send to "[list name]@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 07:06:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA02325 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:06:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA02320 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:06:54 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA27528 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:06:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:06:54 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4D9A@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:02:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Carl, Very interesting stuff. Actually I was answering someone elses question regarding efi and wild camshafts. It's been a while but I think they were trying to understand the dynamics of idle with these camshafts. I'd love to know more about the ULVE though. To be honest, this is the first I'd heard of it by an actual name. But I can't imagine a ULEV on a small block Chevy motor with a 300+ degree cam with less than 100 degrees lobe centers! Even the best algorithm and efi setup in the world wouldn't work correctly if the headers and intake runner lengths, dias, etc weren't right - and even then it would only be right at a small rpm range. My quess (and it's only a guess) is that the world will never see wild cammed emissions vehicles, ha! Now a turbocharged SBC which typically uses wider lobe centers and a lot less duration - hmmmmmm. I've waited almost 30 years to see fi come into its own! Seems to me efi and turbocharging are a match made in heaven! Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com [SMTP:EFISYSTEMS@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 3:35 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... > > In a message dated 11/25/98 5:32:38 AM Pacific Standard Time, > JemisonR@tce.com > writes: > > << Subj: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... > Date: 11/25/98 5:32:38 AM Pacific Standard Time > From: JemisonR@tce.com (Jemison Richard) > Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > ('diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu') > > Wow, if this isn't an opportunity to make a fool of myself I don't know > what is. Overlap is introduced by the cam designer to improve scavenging > of > the cylinder and maximize fresh charge (new fuel / air) into the > cylinder. > To do this, the concept of overlap sacrifices fuel economy and an orderly > intake/exhaust processing - rather muddling both processes together. The > idea works generally in a narrow rpm band (the more scavenging, the > narrower > the band - thought this is also influenced by valve lift and assymetrical > cam lobes, etc). BTW, this can be fine tuned with intake and exhaust > lengths (that's another story). > > The point of all this (and I'm very new to efi so take this for whatever > you > feel it's worth); but from a newbie's point of view, O2 sensing > specifically > and air/fuel measurement in general are pretty much worthless in this > situation just because of the lack of process (intake/exhaust cycle) > control. Everything is sort of happening at once, so trying to "tune" > the > mixture based on a test sample of burnt fuel along with some fresh charge > seems pretty worthless. This is why those ultra simple constant flow > injection setups worked so good! FWIW, carbs also have some problems > with > cam profiles like this. > > Actually, might be worth the effort to forget the sequential efi (unless > you > want to impress everyone in the staging area with your flawless idle > quality) and just batch it (I just found out about this and it has > changed > my whole outlook on efi!). You have that much cam, you're not idling > anyway! > > rick > > Hi Rick, > I enjoy discussing camshafts and overlap cyles for a desired > result,,,,,what we have with EFI that carburetion has no concept, is wall > wetting ......with efi we can build a model inside the computers > "brain"(enhanced closed loop) to discover what happens when a camshaft > produces pulses into the intake manifold.....originally it was tried > through > the EGR cyle of the computer which in its truest sense is what it really > is...so if you can measure the mass flow of the fuel and the mass flow of > the > air, then decifer the waste and know what to do from there with the > dynamics > of the entire system you can correct anything.....this is the goal of > ULEV,(Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) which is supposed to be here in 2004, > ultimate efficiency...which of course equates to ultimate HP with a given > fuel...I guess I may not have answered your querry but the list can expand > from here...............hth's > -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 07:23:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA02510 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:23:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from alpha1.obuda.kando.hu (root@[193.224.41.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA02503 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:23:23 -0500 Received: by alpha1.obuda.kando.hu; id AA17552; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:23:57 +0100 Received: from KKMF_MSZI/SpoolDir by novserv.obuda.kando.hu (Mercury 1.43); 1 Dec 98 13:28:57 MET Received: from SpoolDir by KKMF_MSZI (Mercury 1.43); 1 Dec 98 13:28:35 MET From: "Kapocs Attila" Organization: Kando Polytechnic of Technology To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:28:25 MET Subject: Re: Weber - Marelli ? X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Kapocs Attila" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-Id: <5B31B55ABC@novserv.obuda.kando.hu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello, What do you need from this IAW ECM? The ECM pinout is the same as IAWs in Lancia Delta turbos. If you re interested I can send you the pinout of the Lancia IAW. Regards Attila Kapocs From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 07:27:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA02554 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:27:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA02549 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:27:09 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA29210 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:27:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:27:10 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4D9B@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... a bit lo ng Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:27:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The WWII FI birds (which often had some pretty wild camming to get the power required) and supercharging, EGT was the indicator of choice for mixture control but no one worried about it til you got up and pretty well stabilized in cruise (or for the multiengine planes with a flight engineer, had the engine up in the power range). The wild cam basically says the designer (and the user) don't really care about low end quality and are willing to sacrifice it for upper rpm maximization of HP! Lets try to little mental game playing here. First assume it is possible to control mixture with high overlap and low rpm. If the engine is really setup well and the cam isn't too wild, you can usually get them to idle fairly well. The secret to getting efi to really control A/F under these circumstances would be to at least get the engine to stumble and blow raw fuel into the exhaust fairly consistently. If the anomalies approaches any type of periodicity, then you can predict the next event with a definable level of certainty (and write code to correct for it). A computer with enough overhead to measure engine speed (and therefore detect surges and power drop offs) every 5-6 degrees like the EFI332 project does would be necessary. But it would also have to look at O2, EGT and MAP or MAF (to detect regurge backing up in the intake) and the system would have to have a separate algorithm to handle this (out of map) situation. Even at that, to get any kind of consistency would probably require multiple O2 sensors (EGT isn't going to be very useful as most of the fuel isn't getting burned in this situation!) and an averaging algorithm to come up with an "average" A/F and compare this to A/F at specific points in the exhaust header (to detect rich slugs in the exhaust). This information could then be used to measure the amount of correction necessary in the next event and when the correction needed to be made prior to the next event. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com [SMTP:EFISYSTEMS@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 3:11 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... > > In a message dated 11/25/98 12:16:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, > mwichstr@online.no writes: > > << From: mwichstr@online.no (Espen Hilde) > Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > I have a question that I have been thinking about lately. > In a engine with high overlap cam and sequential efi,how to measure air > fuel ratio? > At certain points in the rpm scale the engine is scavenging air right > trough the engine.(I presume) > At overlap.The sequential efi will not inject fuel to this amount of > air.(not supposed to....) > The result as I see it,is that air is pulled trough to the exhaust > system.The ox sensor (if it sensors 02) > will say this is a lean condition. > Am I worthy of a coned shaped hat? > Espen Hilde > > Hi Espen > In my expereince, I have noticed Oxygen will transport to the > exhaust > during a missfire or through heavy overlap cycles.............but with a > wide > range O2 sensor which is supposed to concentrate on HC, it does not always > translate,,,at this point it is good to monitor EGT as well as long as it > is > close enough so that you can get a reasonable transport delay > reaction.....hth's > -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 07:30:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA02632 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:30:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA02628 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:30:20 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id HAA29372 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:30:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:30:21 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4D9C@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Alcohol + EFI? Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:30:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No real secret. Higher octane (for higher compression). Just richen the map by 10-15% across the board (can't remember the timing changes - I think (experiment for this one) it requires a bit more advance as it burns slower). Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed [SMTP:EdDSP@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 8:37 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Alcohol + EFI? > > Any good web pages and/or books about running alky with EFI? > > -Ed From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 08:41:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03819 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:41:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03815 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:41:19 -0500 Received: from hp-and2.an.hp.com (hp-and2.an.hp.com [15.4.151.90]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with SMTP id FAA06653 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by hp-and2.an.hp.com (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA06709; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:16:58 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:16:58 -0500 From: Tony Brock-Fisher Message-Id: <9812011316.AA06709@hp-and2.an.hp.com> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Diesel EFI Info Wanted Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Folks- Newbie here. Subscribed to see if anyone has info for Diesel computers. Specifically, Chrysler computers for Cummins diesels in pickup trucks. -Tony fisher@an.hp.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 09:54:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04567 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:54:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04555 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:54:10 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA12438 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:52:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:52:47 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Injector control Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >In a message dated 11/26/98 8:47:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, bearbvd@sni.net >writes: > ><< Subj: Re: Injector control > Date: 11/26/98 8:47:26 AM Pacific Standard Time > From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) > Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Greg Hermann > >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 10:02 AM > >Subject: Re: Injector control > > > > > >>>Hi Greg, > >>>A couple of thoughts regarding PW. > >>>1). The smaller you make the PW (resolution) the more Processing Power > >>>(MIPS) you need in an ECC or it forces the manufacturer to adds an > > Given the large pw increment that the DFI/Accel ecu is stuck with, I quit > believing anything that they say about injector limitations! > > Did not know that Bosch was making a PWM FPR--tell me more. > > And tell Grumpy not to eat too much!! > > Regards, Greg > >Hi All, ...if we can >introduce the technology from the aftermarket to the EPA,,,,,,,,,,,,,,we can >finally show them what true emissions is.........efficiency.....getting it all >from what we put in......I guarantee 99% of the gurus at the big three level >that make decisions have no idea what any of us are even talking about....they >want their numbers...set up by a bunch of people who don't know what it takes >to make the numbers happen...........what's the fix?????make some noise..... >-Carl Summers And if you take the time to earn some credibility, and get to know some folks on a personal level, who are in a poositlon to influence some decisions, then you can make your noise at a much lower volume level, and with a whole lot more effect!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 10:01:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04686 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:01:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04682 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:01:25 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA13074 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:00:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:00:05 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... a bit lo ng Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >The WWII FI birds (which often had some pretty wild camming to get the power >required) and supercharging, EGT was the indicator of choice for mixture >control but no one worried about it til you got up and pretty well >stabilized in cruise (or for the multiengine planes with a flight engineer, >had the engine up in the power range). The wild cam basically says the >designer (and the user) don't really care about low end quality and are >willing to sacrifice it for upper rpm maximization of HP! > >Lets try to little mental game playing here. First assume it is possible to >control mixture with high overlap and low rpm. >If the engine is really setup well and the cam isn't too wild, you can >usually get them to idle fairly well. The secret to getting efi to really >control A/F under these circumstances would be to at least get the engine to >stumble and blow raw fuel into the exhaust fairly consistently. If the >anomalies approaches any type of periodicity, then you can predict the next >event with a definable level of certainty (and write code to correct for >it). > >A computer with enough overhead to measure engine speed (and therefore >detect surges and power drop offs) every 5-6 degrees like the EFI332 project >does would be necessary. But it would also have to look at O2, EGT and MAP >or MAF (to detect regurge backing up in the intake) and the system would >have to have a separate algorithm to handle this (out of map) situation. >Even at that, to get any kind of consistency would probably require multiple >O2 sensors (EGT isn't going to be very useful as most of the fuel isn't >getting burned in this situation!) and an averaging algorithm to come up >with an "average" A/F and compare this to A/F at specific points in the >exhaust header (to detect rich slugs in the exhaust). This information >could then be used to measure the amount of correction necessary in the next >event and when the correction needed to be made prior to the next event. > >Rick > Which brings me to the point of saying: MAYBE we should take a hard look at adding a whole lot more I/O capability to the 332 project--for starters 8 Thermocouple inputs for EGT-- Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 10:14:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04907 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:14:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04902 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:14:13 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA14269 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:12:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:12:54 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Diesel EFI Info Wanted Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi Folks- > >Newbie here. > >Subscribed to see if anyone has info for Diesel computers. > >Specifically, Chrysler computers for Cummins diesels in pickup trucks. > >-Tony > >fisher@an.hp.com No hard info, but I think you mean Cummins computers for Cummins diesels as installed in Chrysler pick-ups--- I think that Cummins and Navistar both sell the ecu's as part of the oem package along with their engines. After all, Ford even uses the 6BT Cummins in a lot of medium trucks---(often mated with a pretty neat Spicer 7 speed manual tranny---) Plus a lot of heavy equipment apps. And, of course, Navistar uses the 7.3 in a lot of its own trucks. Don't think anybody would see the sense in developing several different ecu's for the same two engines--- Also suspect (but do not know for sure) that looking for chips for your engine's ecu which were meant for heavy equipment or heavier truck apps. (such as a Ford F-700) might be an excellent place to start if looking for more performance. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 10:46:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05481 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:46:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.tantech.com (trends-gw.problem.com [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA05477 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:46:32 -0500 Received: by problem.tantech.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #25) id m0zks0X-0000H4C; Tue, 1 Dec 98 10:46 EST Message-Id: Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... a bit lo ng To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:46:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: from "Greg Hermann" at Dec 1, 98 08:00:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >detect surges and power drop offs) every 5-6 degrees like the EFI332 project > >does would be necessary. But it would also have to look at O2, EGT and MAP > >or MAF (to detect regurge backing up in the intake) and the system would > >have to have a separate algorithm to handle this (out of map) situation. > >Even at that, to get any kind of consistency would probably require multiple > >O2 sensors (EGT isn't going to be very useful as most of the fuel isn't > >getting burned in this situation!) and an averaging algorithm to come up > >with an "average" A/F and compare this to A/F at specific points in the > >exhaust header (to detect rich slugs in the exhaust). This information > >could then be used to measure the amount of correction necessary in the next > >event and when the correction needed to be made prior to the next event. > > > Which brings me to the point of saying: MAYBE we should take a hard look at > adding a whole lot more I/O capability to the 332 project--for starters 8 > Thermocouple inputs for EGT-- more like 12 lots of V10s coming out there already 12s not far behind Clive From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 11:34:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06527 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:34:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from NIH2WAAD (smtp4.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06523 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:34:48 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:34:16 -0500 Received: from axel (mun-c45-008-vty251.as.wcom.net [195.232.36.251]) by hil-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.6) with SMTP id LAA29188 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:33:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003d01be1d48$6de7c830$fb24e8c3@axel> From: "Axel Rietschin" To: "DIY_EFI Mailing List" Subject: Re: Weber - Marelli ? Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:34:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Gregory Dimitriadis To: Sent: Monday, November 30, 1998 5:38 PM Subject: Re: Weber - Marelli ? > Hi Axel > >What specific information do you want about p8 marelli series? Basically everything :) I'd like to have a good understanding of the hw and sw in order to be able to make my own mapping. >Is this your car? > Yes. --Axel From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 11:35:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06544 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:35:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06540 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:35:32 -0500 Received: from mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.216]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id IAA08396; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA05174; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:35:31 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQXiXDfQ4mj3XGL9kaT0k1Ab4xfJgIVAMALIUu/pK59pxZxsKijUc6W4hWN From: Dodge1979@webtv.net (Roger Anderson) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:35:31 -0600 (CST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: hey! Message-ID: <11820-36641AD3-412@mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gang: got an Accell/EFI controlled system on a turbo ZX-11 bike. 24# bosch injectors with a BEGI fuel regulator. Have never had the idle quality that the original carb set-up had. Have since had the tbs modified for secondary injectors and the ecu(ecm?) modified for staged operation. Am I heading in the right direction? Last few days I've seen some comments on the Accell system.....Help! ps: What is this 332 project? Thanks, roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 11:38:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06617 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:38:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from NIH2WAAE (smtp5.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.74]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06612 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:38:15 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:37:35 -0500 Received: from axel (mun-c45-008-vty251.as.wcom.net [195.232.36.251]) by hil-img-11.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.6) with SMTP id LAA29754; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:36:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005301be1d48$dada1a10$fb24e8c3@axel> From: "Axel Rietschin" To: Cc: "DIY_EFI Mailing List" Subject: Re: Re: Weber - Marelli ? Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:37:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Kapocs Attila To: Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 2:28 PM Subject: Re: Weber - Marelli ? [snip] >If you re interested I can send you the pinout of the Lancia IAW. That would be great, Thanks in advance, --Axel Rietschin From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 13:01:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09004 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:01:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09000 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:01:37 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA18389 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:01:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:01:40 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DAC@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: hey! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:01:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Say Roger, what were the mods to the tbs? And what are secondary injectors? Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Dodge1979@webtv.net [SMTP:Dodge1979@webtv.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:36 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: hey! > > Gang: got an Accell/EFI controlled system on a turbo ZX-11 bike. 24# > bosch injectors with a BEGI fuel regulator. Have never had the idle > quality that the original carb set-up had. Have since had the tbs > modified for secondary injectors and the ecu(ecm?) modified for staged > operation. Am I heading in the right direction? > Last few days I've seen some comments on the Accell system.....Help! > ps: What is this 332 project? > > > Thanks, > roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 13:11:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09145 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:11:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from Rt66.com (mack.rt66.com [198.59.162.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09141 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:11:55 -0500 Received: from rt66.com (pmm13.rt66.com [206.206.85.63]) by Rt66.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26637 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:11:54 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <36643091.D0045538@rt66.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 11:08:17 -0700 From: "Michael D. Porter" Organization: Barely enough X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Diesel EFI Info Wanted References: <9812011316.AA06709@hp-and2.an.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tony Brock-Fisher wrote: > > Hi Folks- > > Newbie here. > > Subscribed to see if anyone has info for Diesel computers. > > Specifically, Chrysler computers for Cummins diesels in pickup trucks. > Tony, I think the computer is a Cummins item. The Cummins manuals have schematics of the pinouts and sensor wiring, and troubleshooting, but the internals of the computer are proprietary. For what sort of information are you looking? Cheers. From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 14:02:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA09869 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:02:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09858 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:02:02 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.9] (p9.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.9]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA09485 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:00:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:00:39 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... a bit lo ng Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >detect surges and power drop offs) every 5-6 degrees like the EFI332 project >> >does would be necessary. But it would also have to look at O2, EGT and MAP >> >or MAF (to detect regurge backing up in the intake) and the system would >> >have to have a separate algorithm to handle this (out of map) situation. >> >Even at that, to get any kind of consistency would probably require multiple >> >O2 sensors (EGT isn't going to be very useful as most of the fuel isn't >> >getting burned in this situation!) and an averaging algorithm to come up >> >with an "average" A/F and compare this to A/F at specific points in the >> >exhaust header (to detect rich slugs in the exhaust). This information >> >could then be used to measure the amount of correction necessary in the next >> >event and when the correction needed to be made prior to the next event. >> > >> Which brings me to the point of saying: MAYBE we should take a hard look at >> adding a whole lot more I/O capability to the 332 project--for starters 8 >> Thermocouple inputs for EGT-- > >more like 12 >lots of V10s coming out there already >12s not far behind Oh GOODY!!! :-) > OK--I was just trying to get the idea planted. Was a little shy about talking about the TC inputs, staged injectors, H2O injectors, Air booster injectors, and inputs for fuel pressure, fuel temp, wide band O2(s) as well as some outputs for pwm solenoid control valves and fuel pump voltage all at once. (and times twelve for all the varieties of injectors too!!) (on top of my recent bitchin' about needing teensy injector pw increments!!) Wuz only tryin' to let everybody get over their tummy sprains from last Thursday!! But, at least we do have plenty of processor ready to go!!! Regards, Greg >Clive From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 14:26:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10405 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:26:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10401 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:25:59 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA11789 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:24:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:24:37 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: hey! Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Say Roger, what were the mods to the tbs? And what are secondary injectors? > > >Rick I think that staged would be a synonym. Total flow through both injectors is enough to make the HP involved, but you only use the primaries for idle and up to (usually) about 33% load (if the primaries flow 1/2 the fuel of the secondaries). TB mods were probably adding bungs for the second set of injectors. It would appear that Roger, in his case, is fighting with both too short an injector pw at idle AND too big an incremental change in injector pw. Regards, Greg > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dodge1979@webtv.net [SMTP:Dodge1979@webtv.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:36 AM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: hey! >> >> Gang: got an Accell/EFI controlled system on a turbo ZX-11 bike. 24# >> bosch injectors with a BEGI fuel regulator. Have never had the idle >> quality that the original carb set-up had. Have since had the tbs >> modified for secondary injectors and the ecu(ecm?) modified for staged >> operation. Am I heading in the right direction? >> Last few days I've seen some comments on the Accell system.....Help! >> ps: What is this 332 project? >> >> >> Thanks, >> roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 14:51:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA10846 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:51:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA10842 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:51:04 -0500 Received: from mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.215]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id LAA06102; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id LAA12426; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:51:03 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAkPi96r114X7ITUYeEbCMq9vJLJoCFBWiqZkm5k041kguYAz41ToqJ3sl From: Dodge1979@webtv.net (Roger Anderson) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:51:03 -0600 (CST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: hey! Message-ID: <3655-366448A7-1995@mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Jemison Richard 's message of Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:01:33 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu RICK: I sent the tb unit off to have 4 additional injector bosses added for a total of 8 injectors for staged set-up. The folks that did the work said I should use the same flow rate injectors for both the primary and secondaries. To save some $ I was thinking about using the 24# as the secondaries and going a litttle smaller (15-18#) for the primary to help out the idle. Got this BEGI regulator (rising rate of gain) to adjust fuel delivery that seems to work fine. Just found the 332 project website-wow. Has anyone completed and run one of these units yet? How would it compare to an Accell system? thanks, roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 16:34:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12832 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:34:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icst.com (icst.icst.com [12.3.42.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12828 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:34:11 -0500 From: rauscher@icst.com Received: from icsvfnt.icst.com by icst.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA08725; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:22:36 -0500 Received: from ccMail by icsvfnt.icst.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA912548224; Tue, 01 Dec 98 16:37:07 -0500 Message-Id: <9812019125.AA912548224@icsvfnt.icst.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 98 16:31:04 -0500 To: Subject: 730AZTY.bin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just a heads up, I've uploaded the eprom image from a '92 3.1L v-6 Camaro into 'incoming'. Found as: 730AZTY.bin & 730AZTY.txt BobR. -- From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 16:53:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13209 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:53:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13205 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:53:51 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv17.4) id 7YDCa00367 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:53:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1e26f421.36646547@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:53:11 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: VSS problems Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I just got and installed a VSS sensor on my car. It is a four pulse sensor and also facilitates the attachment of a speedo cable for my cable driven speedo. The EFI system I'm using is a 7730 6cyl DIS system from an '89 corsair with stock (but updated) EPROM. The transmission is a 700r4 from an 88 Astro. I am using the original cable drive gears in the trans. The problem is that my scan tool is only reporting about 10mph when I'm actually doing about 60mph, and about 5 when I'm going 30, etc. My speedo is still reading the proper speed, so I know the cable (and thus the VSS) is spinning the correct speed. My manual states that the computer requires 4000 pulse per mile, so I know I have the right sensor. Why is the sensor so far off? Is there something I'm missing? Are the VSSs supposed to spin 6x faster than the cable driven speedos? And if so, why do they even bother making aftermarket VSSs like this if they won't even work with cable driven speedos? I also checked the harness and there is only .4 ohms in each wire from where ii connects to the sensor to where it plugs into the ECM, so I don't think thats it. Does someone know of a way to test the sensor on the bench to see if its working properly? I had to "modify" it to make it fit, so I can't return it (and it cost me $60!) Thanks for any ideas, Ted From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 17:03:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13388 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:03:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13383 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:03:12 -0500 Received: from odin.corp.sgi.com (odin.corp.sgi.com [192.26.51.194]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id NAA03318 for <@deliverator.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:54:11 -0800 (PST) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com by odin.corp.sgi.com via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1502/951211.SGI) for <@deliverator.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id NAA13661; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:21:13 -0800 Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id QAA12826; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:21:11 -0500 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id QAA04948 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:21:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9812011621.ZM4940@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:21:10 -0500 In-Reply-To: tedscj@usa.net "Re: [Re: best place to get a new ecm???? It's fixed!!]" (Nov 25, 6:29pm) References: <19981125232936.16054.qmail@www0k.netaddress.usa.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: [Re: best place to get a new ecm???? It's fixed!!] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu speaking of ECMs... I've got a reman '7748 ECM from a 1990 Sunbird for sale. Interested? Make me an offer... I really want to get rid of it! From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 17:30:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13946 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:30:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13941 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:30:08 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-42.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.111]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA22575 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:29:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006501be1d7a$a7979f60$6f198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: VSS problems Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:33:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Tedscj@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 5:19 PM Subject: VSS problems Take a deep breath and start again. What is the donor car/tranny What is the recipent car/tranny. Can you burn your own e-proms?. Some 730's use a 4,000ppm A/C signal, and some use a 2,000 ppm D/C. Bruce >Hi, >I just got and installed a VSS sensor on my car. It is a four pulse sensor >and also facilitates the attachment of a speedo cable for my cable driven >speedo. >The EFI system I'm using is a 7730 6cyl DIS system from an '89 corsair with >stock (but updated) EPROM. The transmission is a 700r4 from an 88 Astro. I >am using the original cable drive gears in the trans. >The problem is that my scan tool is only reporting about 10mph when I'm >actually doing about 60mph, and about 5 when I'm going 30, etc. >My speedo is still reading the proper speed, so I know the cable (and thus the >VSS) is spinning the correct speed. >My manual states that the computer requires 4000 pulse per mile, so I know I >have the right sensor. >Why is the sensor so far off? Is there something I'm missing? Are the VSSs >supposed to spin 6x faster than the cable driven speedos? And if so, why do >they even bother making aftermarket VSSs like this if they won't even work >with cable driven speedos? >I also checked the harness and there is only .4 ohms in each wire from where >ii connects to the sensor to where it plugs into the ECM, so I don't think >thats it. >Does someone know of a way to test the sensor on the bench to see if its >working properly? I had to "modify" it to make >it fit, so I can't return it (and it cost me $60!) > >Thanks for any ideas, >Ted > From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 18:03:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14730 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:03:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14725 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:03:57 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-113.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.113]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24248 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:03:55 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981201180325.0093eaf0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 18:03:50 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: VSS problems In-Reply-To: <006501be1d7a$a7979f60$6f198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 05:33 PM 12/1/98 -0500, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tedscj@aol.com >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 5:19 PM >Subject: VSS problems > >Take a deep breath and start again. >What is the donor car/tranny >What is the recipent car/tranny. >Can you burn your own e-proms?. > >Some 730's use a 4,000ppm A/C signal, and some use a 2,000 ppm D/C. >Bruce > > Also, What gear ratios were used in the stock app and what are in the new app? =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 18:19:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15105 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:19:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA15101 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:19:41 -0500 Message-ID: <19981201232126.8079.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send103.yahoomail.com; Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:21:26 PST Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:21:26 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Parts for sale? To: diy efi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What parts do people on here have for sale? ECMs, TBIs, injectors, software, etc? Just thought i'd see what piles up in other people's garages. Andy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 18:38:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15490 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:38:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15486 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:38:57 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.10] (p10.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.10]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA24288 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:38:51 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:38:51 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: hey! Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >RICK: >I sent the tb unit off to have 4 additional injector bosses added for a >total of 8 injectors for staged set-up. The folks that did the work said >I should use the same flow rate injectors for both the primary and >secondaries. Inna word, they may be good machinists, but they don't appear to know %^&**$ about control theory! :-) To save some $ I was thinking about using the 24# as the >secondaries and going a litttle smaller (15-18#) for the primary to help >out the idle. If you get full power with the 24's, go as small as you can find for the primaries, and whatever (24-whatever you find for primaries) is equal to (or the next size bigger) for secondaries. The smaller you can get the primaries, the better. Don't think you will find anything smaller than 10 or 12, so don't worry about too small. 8's for the primaries and 16's for the secondaries would be about ideal. However, unless your bike is making 160 + HP, the 24's (or 24 total for primary and secondary) are (is) a lot more than you need to begin with! And this is the beginning of the problem with the idle! Got this BEGI regulator (rising rate of gain) to adjust >fuel delivery that seems to work fine. >Just found the 332 project website-wow. Has anyone completed and run one >of these units yet? How would it compare to an Accell system? With staged injectors, a rising rate regulator should be an unnecessary complication, but maybe not unnecessary with the 64 us injector pw increment the Accel ecu has stuck you with! Regards, Greg > >thanks, >roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 19:09:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16078 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:09:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16074 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:09:02 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7JMJa26670 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:08:18 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:08:18 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: VSS problems Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 12/1/98 6:47:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@bright.net writes: << What is the donor car/tranny What is the recipent car/tranny. Can you burn your own e-proms?. Some 730's use a 4,000ppm A/C signal, and some use a 2,000 ppm D/C. Bruce >> The EFI system is from and '89 Chevy Corsair with 2.8l V6 "w" code engine with a manual transmission. Thats with DIS, Speed Density and a 7730 computer. Memcal ATZD. It is now on a 258 c.i. straight six with a 700r4TH transmission. The engine is Jaguar and the tranny from an '88 Chevy Astro van. The manual for the original "w" engine from which the computer and memcal came states that the VSS should be "4000 ppm" I am assuming thats "pulse per mile". The ECM also has "VSS high" and "VSS low" inputs. I assume this means requires an A/C signal. That is the VSS that I have got, yet the scan tool reads actual speed/6. I don't have an EPROM burner, but I am thinking of getting one. Ted From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 19:33:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16558 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:33:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16551 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:33:07 -0500 Received: from koala (137.82.2.60) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:32:35 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:32:42 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: andy quaas cc: diy efi Subject: Re: Parts for sale? In-Reply-To: <19981201232126.8079.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have 4 Magnum 500 rims, 15 X 7 in good condition (these are the rims you see on '69-70 Boss Mustangs) I also have a ford big block (don't know if it's for a 427/428/429) flywheel. later jw From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 19:33:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16569 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:33:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16565 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:33:43 -0500 Received: from old486 (slip129-37-161-87.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.87]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA135850 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:33:38 GMT Message-ID: <36648AF4.4F4C@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:33:56 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: anybody home? References: <199811301000.FAA12834@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <3664217c.863563@smtp.erols.com> <36636AB8.2B2@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just checking to see if the list is down.No mail - first time in MONTHS From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 19:51:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16890 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:51:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16885 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:51:38 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-42.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.111]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id TAA25168 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:51:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <014201be1d8e$6a9d2e40$6f198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: VSS problems Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:55:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Tedscj@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 7:39 PM Subject: Re: VSS problems > Some 730's use a 4,000ppm A/C signal, and some use a 2,000 ppm D/C. > Bruce >The EFI system is from and '89 Chevy Corsair with 2.8l V6 "w" code engine with >a manual transmission. Thats with DIS, Speed Density and a 7730 computer. >Memcal ATZD. > >It is now on a 258 c.i. straight six with a 700r4TH transmission. The engine >is Jaguar and the tranny from an '88 Chevy Astro van. > >The manual for the original "w" engine from which the computer and memcal came >states that the VSS should be "4000 ppm" I am assuming thats "pulse per >mile". The ECM also has "VSS high" and "VSS low" inputs. I assume this means >requires an A/C signal. >That is the VSS that I have got, yet the scan tool reads actual speed/6. My best quess right now is putting a .01, or .1 mfd disc into the feed line to the ecm. /6 ain't seen before. Bruce >I don't have an EPROM burner, but I am thinking of getting one. > >Ted > From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 19:52:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA16903 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:52:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA16899 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:52:43 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-206.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.206]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA09758 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:52:39 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981201195130.0093bc60@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:52:35 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Parts for sale? In-Reply-To: References: <19981201232126.8079.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have an OTC-2000 with GM, Ford and Chrysler cables... Hard carrying case and 3 in 1 cartridge thru 1991. All books etc. Best offer over $200.00! =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 20:11:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17337 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:11:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17332 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:11:20 -0500 Received: from mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.215]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id RAA27439; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:11:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA20169; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:11:18 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQuYrLMXEOuc/wZIO0j2Q8q3QrnyAIUZbciOmdUd7CrQSaHoKiSUgbB4RQ= From: Dodge1979@webtv.net (Roger Anderson) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:11:18 -0600 (CST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: hey! Message-ID: <3662-366493B6-802@mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann)'s message of Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:38:51 -0700 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg: Thanks so much for the info/suggestions. This is why I got on this list! Wish I had found this site a couple of yrs ago. I installed the rising rate regulator in hopes of lowering the fuel pressure at idle but cant get much below 40psi so I decided to go the multiple inj/cyl route. This 64us increment I keep seeing....fill me in. Something to do with the pulse width I would guess? I think the smallest flowing Bosch injectors (Kinsler) were around 12-15#. I wonder why there might be probs using these as the prim and the 24# as secondary? Again, I was told that similar injectors (prim/second)would be the way to go ... This Accell unit is set up for 12-15 ohm injectors. Do you know of another make/brand of similar resistance/size with smaller flow rate? thanks. roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 20:16:14 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17474 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:16:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17470 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:16:11 -0500 Received: from old486 (slip129-37-161-87.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.87]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA58302 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:16:07 GMT Message-ID: <366494E2.66C5@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 20:16:18 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Parts for sale? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James Weiler wrote: > > I have 4 Magnum 500 rims, 15 X 7 in good condition (these are the rims > you see on '69-70 Boss Mustangs) > I also have a ford big block (don't know if it's for a 427/428/429) > flywheel. > later > jw How much for the Magnums? From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 20:17:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17507 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:17:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17503 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:17:34 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-218.mtco.com [206.69.130.218]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA03311 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:17:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36649555.7988B9F1@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:18:13 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4D9A@tceis3.indy.tce.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Group thoughts, Wide centers help Idle. Why??? Exhaust closes sooner??? Intake opens later??? Narrow overlaps have more torque and higher efficiency (BM??) at peak. Seem to be peakier and "get UP on the Cam" more/sooner. Overlap causes EGR as well as intake charge in exhaust system. (intake and exhaust dilution). EFI is probably worse as most squirt fuel on the intake valve before it opens. Called "settle time" by Edelbrock. (more time to evaporate). That means the richest mixture is sucked in (thru) first. Exhaust tuning (pulses) suck the cylinder dry at some RPMs and block the exit at others. Turbo motors don't care. Cam duration and centers (overlap) can really hose up a system or make it purr like a kitten. Assuming we can measure the AFR with our O2 sensor (or EGOR) and tune to 14.7 or 12.5 or xxx, it still will not tell us how the motor is running. We still need to adjust each combination,,,, say to highest vacuum or whatever,,, so the it runs good (and does not polute). We still need to tune. Maybe we just set the idle speed above the problem areas for those of us with too much cam...( like too short shorts ) a lot is good, more is better and too much is just right. starting to ramble sorry Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 20:22:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17662 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:22:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17658 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:22:41 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-218.mtco.com [206.69.130.218]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA20687 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:22:39 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <366496AA.1F89ACEA@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:23:54 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... a bit lo ng References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4D9B@tceis3.indy.tce.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jemison Richard wrote: > The WWII FI birds (which often had some pretty wild camming to get the power > required) and supercharging, EGT was the indicator of choice for mixture > control but no one worried about it til you got up and pretty well > stabilized in cruise (or for the multiengine planes with a flight engineer, > had the engine up in the power range). The wild cam basically says the > designer (and the user) don't really care about low end quality and are > willing to sacrifice it for upper rpm maximization of HP! > > Lets try to little mental game playing here. First assume it is possible to > control mixture with high overlap and low rpm. > If the engine is really setup well and the cam isn't too wild, you can > usually get them to idle fairly well. The secret to getting efi to really > control A/F under these circumstances would be to at least get the engine to > stumble and blow raw fuel into the exhaust fairly consistently. If the > anomalies approaches any type of periodicity, then you can predict the next > event with a definable level of certainty (and write code to correct for > it). > My Edelbrock idles well when the idle adjustment process is turned off. It obviously has the wrong code and processor. When tuned by the book, the "blower roll" will spin the tires (against the breaks) and then stall. Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 20:54:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18431 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:54:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (vehicle.ME.Berkeley.EDU [128.32.125.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18427 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:54:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (markw@localhost) by vehicle.me.berkeley.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8/2.7) with SMTP id RAA09422 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:54:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:54:10 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Wilcutts To: diy efi Subject: EFI References In-Reply-To: Message-ID: x-no-archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Folks, I enhanced the EFI references page. While Steve Ravet is checking it for inclusion on the DIY_EFI web site, y'all can have a look at it at http://vehicle.me.berkeley.edu/~markw/efi/efi_ref.html There are a bunch of new SAE paper references and the acronyms section has been expanded as well. From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 21:11:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18812 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:11:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca (pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA18807 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:11:46 -0500 Received: by pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 882566CE.000BD16B ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:09:05 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <882566CE.000BD15C.00@pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:09:04 -0800 Subject: Injectors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Gang Some one on the vettenet is trying to hawk some injectors.. :peter Bill Anderson on 12/01/98 05:01:31 PM Please respond to EightSecV6@AOL.COM To: VETTES@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU cc: (bcc: Peter Fenske/BCIT) Subject: Re: [VN] LT1 injectors In a message dated 98-12-01 14:39:53 EST, Alex.Ekrot@COMPAQ.COM writes: If you want NEW injectors, consider trying Ford Motorsport injectors. They are cheaper than GM and they work better under high fuel pressure because they use a "pintle" design instead of the "disc" design (pintle type injectors don't stick closed under high fuel pressures (> 50 psi)which occur when using a Fuel Management Unit (FMU) typically used with NOS or Super Charger applications). >> I have 3 sets of FMS 24# injectors used, (almost new) light blue top. I'll sell for $100 per set if anone is interested. Bill Problems? Questions? Email Bob Kaneshige http://vettenet.org VetteNet SouthWest - June 14-17 1999 - Lake Tahoe From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 21:18:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19057 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:18:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19053 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:18:09 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7TBVa29195 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:02:55 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <16fce194.36649fcf@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:02:55 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: VSS problems Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 12/1/98 7:12:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, n5xmt@bellsouth.net writes: << Also, What gear ratios were used in the stock app and what are in the new app? >> I don't know the original gear ratios for the stock app., but the car now has a 3.54 rear and 15in wheels with 225/70 tires. The original Astro van (from which the tranny came, but NOT the EFI) probably had something more like 3.73 and somewhat smaller dia. wheels. I read in the archives that GM rotates their speedo cables and VSS at 1000 rotations per mile. I figure my rear end and large diameter wheel and tire combo will result in rotations of the VSS somewhat less than that, but not 1/6 less! This is also assuming that the Corsair ECU and Memcal also expect to see the 4 pulse VSS rotate at 1000 rotations/mile.... which would be 4000 pulses per mile... which is what the manual states the ECM expects to see. (assuming the manual is correct... Chilton manual) The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that either the VSS, the ECM or the SCAN TOOL is faulty. Not a case of mis-matched parts. I'm not using a vss with to few pulses (4 is max from what I understand) The transmission is GM and so spins the cable and VSS according to GM conventions. And unless I had a 20 to 1 rear end (which obviously I don't) it should read a faster speed than 10mph for my real 60mph. I don't need the VSS in perfect synchronization, just close! Ted From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 21:57:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19796 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:57:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19792 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:57:46 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7ZEMa22870 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:54:37 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <58ee1d2.3664abed@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:54:37 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: VSS problems Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 12/1/98 9:13:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@bright.net writes: << My best quess right now is putting a .01, or .1 mfd disc into the feed line to the ecm. /6 ain't seen before. Bruce >> OK, here's the stupid question: What is a mfd disc (microferrad?) and what will this do? I'm willing to try anything to get the VSS controlled functions working (doesn't have to be particularly accurate) but my specific knowledge of electronics is limited to Ohms law I'm afraid! :) Could you give the dummy explanation please? Thanks for your help, Ted From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 22:10:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20120 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:10:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20115 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:10:38 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA16019 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:10:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:10:44 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DB8@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:10:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom, Hi. I'm not sure I follow your thoughts here and let me apologize for that right from the start. I don't want to argue or nit pick - we may be saying the same thing. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Sharpe [SMTP:twsharpe@mtco.com] > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 8:18 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... > > Group thoughts, > > Wide centers help Idle. Why??? Exhaust closes sooner??? Intake opens > later??? > Narrow overlaps have more torque and higher efficiency (BM??) at peak. > Seem to > be peakier and "get UP on the Cam" more/sooner. [Jemison Richard] If you imagine a center line right smack between the lobes with both lobes up - if now the intake move toward the valve it should be clear that the intake opens sooner (relatively) the wider the lobe centers are. By the same token, the exhaust closes later. As the lobe centers decrease intake opens later and exhaust closes sooner. Now this is assuming symmetric lobes and all that. I just want to be clear that OVERLAP and LOBE CENTER are reciprocal terms. As the lobe center increases, generally the overlap decreases and vice versa. Again, cam grinders can play with these numbers and make all sorts of timing arrangements. > > Overlap causes EGR as well as intake charge in exhaust system. (intake and > exhaust dilution). > > EFI is probably worse as most squirt fuel on the intake valve before it > opens. > Called "settle time" by Edelbrock. (more time to evaporate). That means > the > richest mixture is sucked in (thru) first. [Jemison Richard] Actually, efi should be better than carburetion with wild cams. With carbs velocity changes drive carburetors nuts and excess gas is pulled into the cylinder then gases rushing backwards through the carb also pull gas even further richening. EFI on the other hand is squirting gas irrespective of gas flow. The problem with efi is that as the fuel is pulled through the cylinder - extra fuel isn't going to be pulled into the cylinder so the actual cylinder A/F will be lean under some conditions. > > Exhaust tuning (pulses) suck the cylinder dry at some RPMs and block the > exit at > others. Turbo motors don't care. Cam duration and centers (overlap) can > really > hose up a system or make it purr like a kitten. [Jemison Richard] Turbos actually do care I believe. Most turbo cams are wide center line, mild duration, moderate to high lift cams. You don't want to lose all that pressure out the exhaust pipe! Also, cylinder filling is largely taken care of my the pressure developed by the turbo. So you don't need cylinder scavenging. You already have a large pressure differential across the cylinder to remove combustion gases and recharge the cylinder. If you've ever heard a turbocharged Indy car idle you know they sit and purr along like a Volvo. Not a lot of heavy timing. But then again - they're only about 160 cubic inches too. > > Assuming we can measure the AFR with our O2 sensor (or EGOR) and tune to > 14.7 or > 12.5 or xxx, it still will not tell us how the motor is running. We still > need > to adjust each combination,,,, say to highest vacuum or whatever,,, so the > it > runs good (and does not polute). We still need to tune. > > Maybe we just set the idle speed above the problem areas for those of us > with > too much cam...( like too short shorts ) a lot is good, more is better and > too > much is just right. [Jemison Richard] I agree with you here. Why worry about it. If you're running this much overlap you're not staying up nights worrying about emissions! You're racing! > starting to ramble sorry Tom [Jemison Richard] I'm in the process of turbocharging a 4 cylinder inline 4 stroke motorcycle and have talked with many people who have already worked with similar setups. So while my comments are not based on personal experience with this bike, they are based on working systems running both efi and turbo. I believe if I can find the right sized injectors that I can get my bike to idle quite smoothly and will be working toward that end. I'll keep you posted as to my progress. In the mean time, check this turbo bike setup out http://www.ptw.com/~gsxr1100/ Also, grab your favorite cam grinders spec sheets or catalog and compare hot street and turbo cams and check me out on this. Rick From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 22:31:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20454 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:31:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20447 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:31:40 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-25.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.43]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA06287 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:31:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003001be1da4$c4a767a0$2b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: VSS problems Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:35:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Tedscj@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 10:19 PM Subject: Re: VSS problems >In a message dated 12/1/98 9:13:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@bright.net >writes: > ><< My best quess right now is putting a .01, or .1 mfd disc into the feed line > to the ecm. /6 ain't seen before. > Bruce > >> > >OK, here's the stupid question: What is a mfd disc (microferrad?) and what >will this do? >I'm willing to try anything to get the VSS controlled functions working >(doesn't have to be particularly accurate) but my specific knowledge of >electronics is limited to Ohms law I'm afraid! :) >Could you give the dummy explanation please? I've got a test bench for ecms that I have been working on. On one 730 setup I couldn't get it to read right of the same signal that another computer was using just fine, so to make the DC signal look a little like a A/c signal I installed that capacitor. I don't remember how "fast" I ran it but it didn't seem to work, then with the cap, bingo. Sorry, I'm not an EE, so that's the best I can say about it. For a $1 at Radio Shack seems like a cheap "what the hell". Bruce >Thanks for your help, >Ted > From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 22:40:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20709 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:40:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (root@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20704 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:40:50 -0500 Received: from horizon.hit.net (ponca027.hit.net [206.252.170.144]) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA27006 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:40:42 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3664B69C.BA3763F6@horizon.hit.net> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:40:12 -0600 From: Roger Heflin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: 93 Z disassembly update - flowcharts of some ALDL routines Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey, I have added some notes, comments, and flowcharts of two of what I believe are the ALDL routines. I am working on flowcharting 3rd ALDL routine. I do not think (so far) I have flowcharted the routine that outputs the ALDL data stream. If I can find this I will know what alot of the data items are. Any comments are welcome. The web page is at: http://www.hit.net/~rah Roger Heflin rah@horizon.hit.net From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 22:58:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA21230 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:58:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp1.mailsrvcs.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA21226 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:58:22 -0500 Received: from [153.34.238.40] (1Cust40.tnt1.santa-ynez.ca.da.uu.net [153.34.238.40]) by smtp1.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id VAA01482 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:58:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812020358.VAA01482@smtp1.mailsrvcs.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 19:56:05 +0000 Subject: Alcohol - EFI From: "Fran and Bud" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A few old time data points on running Alky (methanol) that may help to provide a frame of reference for Alcohol/EFI efforts: Stromberg 97 carbs: (Ask your Grandpa!) gasoline jets = .045 to .048 dia. -vs- methanol jets = .076 to .090*dia. Flow characteristic of Str. 97's was to richen with increased air flow thru venturi consequently the smaller jet sizes correspond to dual carb setups while 3 and 4 carb setups required the larger jets. At any rate the alcohol jet area was typically 3.5 to 4 times the gasoline jet area. Mechanical (constant flow) FI: (Ask your Dad) gasoline nozzles = .020 to .024 dia. -vs- methanol nozzles = .030 to .035**dia. (292 - 327 SBC) This was at 30-40 psi fuel pressure. If both jets were flowing gasoline the .02? nozzle could flow about 27 to 30 #/hr and the .03? nozzle would flow about 75 to 85 #/hr. (each nozzle). The excess fuel was bypassed from the nozzle supply back to the tank thru a bypass check valve and pill (orifice). Note: Not only were the jets or nozzles changed to larger sizes but all of the flow paths had to be increased in size also - lines, passages, dump tubes, needle valves, etc. and these old engines were struggling to get 1 HP/cu.in. Other Considerations: Optimum air/fuel ratio for gasoline = 14.7 /1 & for methanol = 6.5 /1 also latent heat of vap. = 3+ times as high for methanol as for gasoline resulting in significant extra cooling of intake charge = more dense air = need for more fuel. Seat of the pants estimate for a 350 SBC which at 35 to 45 psi would run 24#/hr EFI injectors might lead you to believe that 80#to 90#/hr EFI injectors would be needed for alcohol. Smaller if the pressure was raised to 60 - 70 psi . This kind of injector is $$$/each. (Indy/F1) You will also have to either make sure that all soft goods/sealing compounds/etc. will not be affected by the methanol (dissolve/swell/etc.) or change them out to materials that are compatible - including the internals of the lines/pump/regulator/injectors. Have heard that Rochester injectors will accept alcohol but dont know for sure and dont think Rochester makes high enough flow rate injectors - but you could go to two injectors/runner. Please feel free to disagree with any or all of this - thats how we will all come to understand the EFI world a little bit or a little better. Regards, Bud From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 23:02:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:02:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21339 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:02:50 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.7] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05770 for mail_from ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:02:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:02:44 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Group thoughts, > >Wide centers help Idle. Why??? Exhaust closes sooner??? Intake opens later??? >Narrow overlaps have more torque and higher efficiency (BM??) at peak. Seem to >be peakier and "get UP on the Cam" more/sooner. > >Overlap causes EGR as well as intake charge in exhaust system. (intake and >exhaust dilution). > >EFI is probably worse as most squirt fuel on the intake valve before it opens. >Called "settle time" by Edelbrock. (more time to evaporate). That means the >richest mixture is sucked in (thru) first. > >Exhaust tuning (pulses) suck the cylinder dry at some RPMs and block the >exit at >others. Turbo motors don't care. Cam duration and centers (overlap) can really >hose up a system or make it purr like a kitten. > >Assuming we can measure the AFR with our O2 sensor (or EGOR) and tune to >14.7 or >12.5 or xxx, it still will not tell us how the motor is running. We still need >to adjust each combination,,,, say to highest vacuum or whatever,,, so the it >runs good (and does not polute). We still need to tune. > >Maybe we just set the idle speed above the problem areas for those of us with >too much cam...( like too short shorts ) a lot is good, more is better and too >much is just right. > >starting to ramble sorry Tom Yo Tom--you are just arguing in favor of air boosted injectors, that's all!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Dec 1 23:21:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21623 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:21:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21619 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:21:04 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA26512 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:20:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812020420.WAA26512@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny2-22.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.86) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026474; Tue Dec 1 22:20:20 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:26:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Ox sender actual function Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There is always good papers in with the bad. All journals have same problem. EPA mobile sources, seems to get most of there regulatory ideas from the big-3 especially GM. There equipment is mostly donated. The past few years in phasing in new emission stds. they could not get there test setup to test. If your in AnnArbor area stop by and visit lab. You can reach Cliff Tyree there and by email at the EPA web site. alex > I ask you---what better way to advance a pseudo technical political agenda > and give it an aura of respectability to the uninitiated than to publish a > paper on (spparently) scientific research through an (apparently) reputable > organization which does not follow a strict regimen of peer review!! WHAT > AN ABSOLUTE CROCK!!! > > And I'll bet that LOTS (IF NOT MOST) expensive regulatory (NHTSA and EPA, > not to mention INSURANCEE INSTITUTE (joan Claybrook)) decisions, based on > (so-called) cost-benefit analyses are based on just this sort of "science". > Calling it a travesty earlier was too polite a term, I guess!! > From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 00:00:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22304 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:00:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22300 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:00:51 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv16.10) id 7XXWa27321 for ; Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:29:09 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 22:29:09 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: VSS problems Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 12/1/98 10:22:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tedscj@aol.com writes: << Corsair ECU and Memcal >> Sorry, I mean CORSICA. I don't even know what a Corsair is! From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 02:04:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA23491 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:04:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from alpha1.obuda.kando.hu (root@alpha1.obuda.kando.hu [193.224.41.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA23487 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 02:03:56 -0500 Received: by alpha1.obuda.kando.hu; id AA28049; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:04:22 +0100 Received: from KKMF_MSZI/SpoolDir by novserv.obuda.kando.hu (Mercury 1.43); 2 Dec 98 08:09:50 MET Received: from SpoolDir by KKMF_MSZI (Mercury 1.43); 2 Dec 98 08:09:00 MET From: "Kapocs Attila" Organization: Kando Polytechnic of Technology To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:08:44 MET Subject: Re: Re: Weber - Marelli ? X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Kapocs Attila" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.40 Message-Id: <6DDEA50C2C@novserv.obuda.kando.hu> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Axel, Here is what I promised: 35 pin connector Lancia Dedra 1995 turbo (Delta has the same ECU and engine) 1-ground 2-lambda-signal 3-ground for crankshaft position sensor 4-signal from cranksaft position sensor (4 signal each revolution 90 degree per one) 5-ground for phase (cylinder select) sensor 6-ground for diagnostic connector 7-? 8-for diagnostic connector 9-CO potentiometer (if present) 10- nc (not connected) 11-signal ground 12-Check Engine light 13-nc 14-nc 15-signal from MAP sensor 16-BPC (Boost Pressure Control) Valve control 17-signal from throttle potentiometer 18-control for 4th cylinder injector 19-ground 20- positiv voltage from main relay (present when ignition is on) 21-Air Conditoner 22-Knock sensor signal 23-phase (cyl.identification signal) Two signal each two revolutions, assimetric. I_ this is the pattern for the sensor like an "L" 24-ground for ignition module pin 3 25-control for ignition module pin 6 26-nc 27-diagnostic connector 28-control for fuel pump relay 29- signal from Engine coolant temperature sensor 30-+5V for throttle position sensor and for MAP sensor 31-Signal from Air Temperature Sensor 32-Control for 2nd cylinder Injector 33-Control 3rd cylinder Injector 34-Control for IAC Valve 35-Control for 1st cylinder Injector I hope this will help. Regards Attila Kapocs From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 03:35:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA24378 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:35:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from one.net.au (darkblue.one.net.au [203.17.224.215]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA24373 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 03:35:10 -0500 Received: (qmail 131 invoked from network); 2 Dec 1998 08:35:04 -0000 Received: from modem56-tar-isp-1.one.net.au (HELO holden) (203.101.3.120) by darkblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 2 Dec 1998 08:35:04 -0000 Message-ID: <002501be1ae9$39285800$780365cb@holden> From: "Geoff Richards" To: "Diy_Efi" Subject: Mailing Lists Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 03:07:35 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2110.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all Any other lists of similar interest to this one that you can recommend possibly more beginner orientated TIA Geoff From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 04:18:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA24950 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:18:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from NIH2WAAD (smtp4.site1.csi.com [149.174.183.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA24946 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:18:36 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by csi.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:18:01 -0500 Received: from axel (mun-c45-043-vty44.as.wcom.net [195.232.54.44]) by hil-img-10.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/IMS-1.6) with SMTP id EAA10529 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:17:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001f01be1dd4$af57ed40$2c36e8c3@axel> From: "Axel Rietschin" To: Subject: Re: Re: Re: Weber - Marelli ? Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:18:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks! From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 08:01:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26999 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:01:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26995 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:01:41 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA06805 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:01:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:01:49 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DC6@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:01:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey Bud, I remember when Stromberg's were king. However, I never personally ran any of them. Does sound like we're pretty close to being contemporaries, ha! Thanks for quantifying this stuff. You keep good notes! The mechanical fuel injection I have worked with, Hilborn and Pete Jackson. Ah, they were simple. A pocket full of pills and you were on your way, ha! Then Isky (Ed) came up with the micrometer pill (really precise but some were prone to vibration problems). Mechanical injection and chrome rings were the way to go at one time.......long, long ago...... One small point (and I think someone quantified this on this list recently), some may wonder why to mess with alky if it takes a lot more to get the job done! Higher octane hence higher compression is possible. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Fran and Bud [SMTP:quest100@gte.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 2:56 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Alcohol - EFI > > A few old time data points on running Alky (methanol) that may help to > provide a frame of reference for Alcohol/EFI efforts: > > Stromberg 97 carbs: (Ask your Grandpa!) > gasoline jets = .045 to .048 dia. -vs- methanol jets = .076 to .090*dia. > Flow characteristic of Str. 97's was to richen with increased air flow > thru > venturi consequently > the smaller jet sizes correspond to dual carb setups while 3 and 4 carb > setups required the larger jets. At any rate the alcohol jet area was > typically 3.5 to 4 times the gasoline jet area. > > Mechanical (constant flow) FI: (Ask your Dad) > gasoline nozzles = .020 to .024 dia. -vs- methanol nozzles = .030 to > .035**dia. (292 - 327 SBC) > This was at 30-40 psi fuel pressure. If both jets were flowing gasoline > the > .02? nozzle could flow about 27 to 30 #/hr and the .03? nozzle would flow > about 75 to 85 #/hr. (each nozzle). > The excess fuel was bypassed from the nozzle supply back to the tank thru > a > bypass check valve and pill (orifice). > > Note: Not only were the jets or nozzles changed to larger sizes but all > of > the flow paths had to be increased in size also - lines, passages, dump > tubes, needle valves, etc. and these old engines were struggling to get 1 > HP/cu.in. > > Other Considerations: > Optimum air/fuel ratio for gasoline = 14.7 /1 & for methanol = 6.5 /1 > also latent heat of vap. = 3+ times as high for methanol as for gasoline > resulting in significant extra cooling of intake charge = more dense air = > need for more fuel. > > Seat of the pants estimate for a 350 SBC which at 35 to 45 psi would run > 24#/hr EFI injectors might lead you to believe that 80#to 90#/hr EFI > injectors would be needed for alcohol. Smaller if the pressure was raised > to > 60 - 70 psi . This kind of injector is $$$/each. (Indy/F1) > > You will also have to either make sure that all soft goods/sealing > compounds/etc. will not be affected by the methanol (dissolve/swell/etc.) > or > change them out to materials that are compatible - including the internals > of the lines/pump/regulator/injectors. Have heard that Rochester > injectors > will accept alcohol but dont know for sure and dont think Rochester makes > high enough flow rate injectors - but you could go to two > injectors/runner. > > Please feel free to disagree with any or all of this - thats how we will > all > come to understand the EFI world a little bit or a little better. > > Regards, Bud From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 10:15:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28555 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:15:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from jsgpc.mrcday.com (root@jsgpc.mrcday.com [206.107.67.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28549 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:15:08 -0500 Received: from jsgpc.mrcday.com (jsg@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jsgpc.mrcday.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01879 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:15:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199812021515.KAA01879@jsgpc.mrcday.com> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Parts for sale? From: jsg@donet.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 01 Dec 1998 20:24:34 EST." <199812020124.UAA17722@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 10:15:00 -0500 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In message <199812020124.UAA17722@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu>, you write: | From: andy quaas | Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:21:26 -0800 (PST) | Subject: | | What parts do people on here have for sale? ECMs, TBIs, injectors, | software, etc? Just thought i'd see what piles up in other people's | garages. | | Andy SBC TPI manifold (88 5.0L)... base, runners, plenum, throttle body, injectors...almost everything but sensors. 280+shipping. (new gm gasket available too). Mallory 110FI fuel pump... new, never used, still in box... sell for 10% less than summit's price + shipping. john jsg@donet.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 10:41:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29083 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:41:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA29079 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:41:26 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id JAA13295; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:38:19 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma013273; Wed, 2 Dec 98 09:37:58 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA19182; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:41:22 -0600 Message-ID: <36657B98.89747BFE@arm.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:40:40 -0800 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: VSS problems References: <003001be1da4$c4a767a0$2b198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >OK, here's the stupid question: What is a mfd disc (microferrad?) and what > >will this do? > >I'm willing to try anything to get the VSS controlled functions working > >(doesn't have to be particularly accurate) but my specific knowledge of > >electronics is limited to Ohms law I'm afraid! :) > >Could you give the dummy explanation please? Bruce is referring to a capacitor, one of the little brown disc types. You can get a pack of them at Radio Shack for a buck or so. If your VSS sender is the 2000 ppm DC type it has a waveform like this (always positive): ___ _____ _____ | | | | | 0v _____|_____|_____|_____|_____|___________ The capacitor in there blocks the DC portion of the signal which centers the waveform around the 0v line like this: ___ _____ _____ 0v ______|_____|_____|_____|_____|_______________ |_____| |_____| | The frequency will still be wrong, but the ECM will at least see a signal that it likes. (If it likes an A/C signal, that is). -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 11:10:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29622 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:10:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ci.west-valley.ut.us (icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us [204.246.130.98]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29617 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:10:23 -0500 Received: from WVCDomain-Message_Server by ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:11:46 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:11:43 -0700 From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Parts for sale? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id LAA29619 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Delco-Remy SBC Cast Iron Dual Point Distributor with Outside Oil Tube. No Tachdrive. Part#111089¯ 3l12. Clip's Are in Good Shape and Gear is Tight. $125 / Offer. David 801 339-1499 or e-mail: dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 11:11:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29640 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:11:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ci.west-valley.ut.us (icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us [204.246.130.98]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29636 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:11:22 -0500 Received: from WVCDomain-Message_Server by ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:12:46 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 09:12:16 -0700 From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Parts for sale? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id LAA29637 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Pair of GM 2.25" SBC exhaust manifolds from the high performance 1LE, can be used with AIR tubes. $65 obo. David (801) 339-1499 or e-mail: dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 12:16:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA31034 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:16:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA31030 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:15:59 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:15:58 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Parts for sale? Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:15:56 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I would be interested in the scanner, is there a web site that I could find out more info about the OTC-2000 Thanks Don ----Original Message----- From: David A. Cooley [SMTP:n5xmt@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 6:53 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Parts for sale? I have an OTC-2000 with GM, Ford and Chrysler cables... Hard carrying case and 3 in 1 cartridge thru 1991. All books etc. Best offer over $200.00! =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 12:32:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA31354 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:32:35 -0500 Received: from oxe.cs.umu.se (root@oxe.cs.umu.se [130.239.40.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA31350 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:32:33 -0500 Received: from guld.cs.umu.se (rfc1413 says c95fsg@guld.cs.umu.se [130.239.40.177]) by oxe.cs.umu.se (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA18029 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:32:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (rfc1413 says c95fsg@localhost) by guld.cs.umu.se (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA15377 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:32:30 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: guld.cs.umu.se: c95fsg owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:32:29 +0100 (MET) From: Fredrik Skog To: Diy Efi Subject: EEPROM Q In-Reply-To: <968.626T1837T9974256@nznet.gen.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all! I'm wondering about a eeprom chip referenced to as a 2817A. Where can I get such a chip and what manufacturers make them. I have searched the web and found nothing useable. My ordinary electronics supplier here in Sweden don't seem to have it in stock. As I understand it's a 2K*8 unit, but that's all I could find about it. If it's not available, could it be easily replaced with a near equal unit? My electronics supplier have a chip called 2816. Looks like it has 24 pins instead of 28 as the 2817 seems to have. Appreciate some help, as I don't have any experience with memory chips. Thanx! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@cs.umu.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog/ 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Living and dying laughing and crying Once you have seen it you will never be the same Life in the fast lane is just how it seems Hard and it is heavy dirty and mean /MetallicA From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 12:42:55 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA31674 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:42:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA31670 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:42:54 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id MAA23872 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:42:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:42:59 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DE1@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Parts for sale? Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:41:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What is Summit's price? > -----Original Message----- > From: jsg@donet.com [SMTP:jsg@donet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 10:15 AM > To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Parts for sale? > > > > In message <199812020124.UAA17722@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu>, you write: > > | From: andy quaas > | Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:21:26 -0800 (PST) > | Subject: > | > | What parts do people on here have for sale? ECMs, TBIs, injectors, > | software, etc? Just thought i'd see what piles up in other people's > | garages. > | > | Andy > > SBC TPI manifold (88 5.0L)... base, runners, plenum, throttle body, > injectors...almost everything but sensors. 280+shipping. (new gm > gasket available too). > > Mallory 110FI fuel pump... new, never used, still in box... sell for > 10% less than summit's price + shipping. > > john > jsg@donet.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 13:18:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA32577 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:18:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA32573 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:18:33 -0500 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id KAA29006 for <@deliverator.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:09:32 -0800 (PST) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id NAA21540; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:18:30 -0500 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id NAA08394 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:18:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9812021318.ZM8402@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:18:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: Jemison Richard "RE: Parts for sale?" (Dec 2, 12:41pm) References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DE1@tceis3.indy.tce.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Parts for sale? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Dec 2, 12:41pm, Jemison Richard wrote: > Subject: RE: Parts for sale? > What is Summit's price? > > Mallory 110FI fuel pump... new, never used, still in box... sell for > > 10% less than summit's price + shipping. I didn't see one in my latest Summit catalog, but my Jeg's catalog has a Mallory Comp-110 part number 4110 for $144.99 From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 13:46:30 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00353 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:46:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00346 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:46:28 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-194.mtco.com [206.69.130.194]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA08008 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:46:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36658B4E.37CB4AE4@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 12:47:42 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DB8@tceis3.indy.tce.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jemison Richard wrote: > [Jemison Richard] Turbos actually do care I believe. Most turbo > cams are wide center line, mild duration, moderate to high lift cams. You > don't want to lose all that pressure out the exhaust pipe! Also, cylinder > filling is largely taken care of my the pressure developed by the turbo. So > you don't need cylinder scavenging. You already have a large pressure > differential across the cylinder to remove combustion gases and recharge the > cylinder. > > Also, grab your favorite cam grinders spec sheets or catalog and > compare hot street and turbo cams and check me out on this. > > Rick Two points, Removing the combustion gasses is a problem with Turbo motors as the exhaust pressure can be higher than the intake. They take a standard, mild cam and crutch the exhaust by openning it sooner; more time to blow down. Net result is wider CL. You're right though, boost is better than lotts of cam and RPM, but a turbo at high rpm will still need a big cam thou not as big as a na motor. My point was (originally), that we should tune the idle by driveability and 'dead recon' the idle mixture from there and forget all that learning stuff (at idle). Just use the O2 for a reference. That assumes that we can easily change the map and have a good trimmer for the map sensor. My 482 idled like a kitten with a Predator carb, alcohol, and roller cam..... it just dribbled raw fuel out of the headers at idle, not enough to clean the floor, but almost. (another sick try at humor). later Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 13:59:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA00652 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:59:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00647 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:59:38 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-194.mtco.com [206.69.130.194]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA09394 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:59:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36658E63.F508AED6@mtco.com> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 13:00:51 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Weber - Marelli ? References: <6DDEA50C2C@novserv.obuda.kando.hu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I added the Edelbrock to it most are the same> Kapocs Attila wrote: > Axel, > > Here is what I promised: > > 35 pin connector > Lancia Dedra 1995 turbo (Delta has the same ECU and engine) > > 1-ground-Y > 2-lambda-signal-Y > 3-ground for crankshaft position sensor-NU > 4-signal from cranksaft position sensor (4 signal each revolution 90 > degree per one)-NU > 5-ground for phase (cylinder select) sensor-Y > 6-ground for diagnostic connector-NU > 7-?-NU > 8-for diagnostic connector-FOR PROGRAMMER UNIT W/ LCD AND KEYPAD > 9-CO potentiometer (if present)-NU > 10- nc (not connected)-DIODE PROT > 11-signal ground -NU > 12-Check Engine light-NU > 13-nc > 14-nc > 15-signal from MAP sensor-Y > 16-BPC (Boost Pressure Control) Valve control-NU > 17-signal from throttle potentiometer-Y > 18-control for 4th cylinder injector-Y2 > 19-ground-Y > 20- positiv voltage from main relay (present when ignition is on)-Y > 21-Air Conditoner-NU > 22-Knock sensor signal-NU > 23-phase (cyl.identification signal)-(DISTIBUTOR SENSOR-8 TEETH-ONE > SMALL) > Two signal each two revolutions, assimetric. > > I_ this is the pattern for the sensor like an "L" > > > 24-ground for ignition module pin 3-Y > 25-control for ignition module pin 6-Y > 26-nc-Y > 27-diagnostic connector-Y > 28-control for fuel pump relay-Y > 29- signal from Engine coolant temperature sensor-Y > 30-+5V for throttle position sensor and for MAP sensor-AND IGN AMP > 31-Signal from Air Temperature Sensor-Y > 32-Control for 2nd cylinder Injector-Y4 > 33-Control 3rd cylinder Injector-Y3 > 34-Control for IAC Valve-Y > 35-Control for 1st cylinder Injector-Y > > I hope this will help. > > Regards > Attila Kapocs AND TOM From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 14:39:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA01457 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:39:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01451 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:38:54 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:38:50 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: EEPROM Q Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:38:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id OAA01452 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have two X2816AP EEPROM's they are made by XICOR I have chips made by SEEQ I believe they invented the EEPROM. I would say a 2Kx8 would be 24 pin The 2817A is probably a 2764 (8K) or 27128 (16K) equivalent if it is 28 pin. Good luck finding your parts I will check around to see if I have any at home. Don ----Original Message----- From: Fredrik Skog [SMTP:c95fsg@cs.umu.se] Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 11:32 AM To: Diy Efi Subject: EEPROM Q Hi all! I'm wondering about a eeprom chip referenced to as a 2817A. Where can I get such a chip and what manufacturers make them. I have searched the web and found nothing useable. My ordinary electronics supplier here in Sweden don't seem to have it in stock. As I understand it's a 2K*8 unit, but that's all I could find about it. If it's not available, could it be easily replaced with a near equal unit? My electronics supplier have a chip called 2816. Looks like it has 24 pins instead of 28 as the 2817 seems to have. Appreciate some help, as I don't have any experience with memory chips. Thanx! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@cs.umu.se Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog/ 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 Living and dying laughing and crying Once you have seen it you will never be the same Life in the fast lane is just how it seems Hard and it is heavy dirty and mean /MetallicA From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 15:29:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA02272 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:29:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02268 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:29:08 -0500 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id MAA23960 for <@external-mail-relay.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:20:05 -0800 (PST) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id PAA23022; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:29:03 -0500 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id PAA08001 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:29:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9812021529.ZM9174@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:29:02 -0500 In-Reply-To: Tom Sharpe "Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam...." (Dec 1, 7:18pm) References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4D9A@tceis3.indy.tce.com> <36649555.7988B9F1@mtco.com> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Dec 1, 7:18pm, Tom Sharpe wrote: > EFI is probably worse as most squirt fuel on the intake valve before it opens. > Called "settle time" by Edelbrock. (more time to evaporate). That means the > richest mixture is sucked in (thru) first. Interesting. I had always thought that it evaporated fully after the valve warmed up (not too long to do that either). At higher RPMs does the fuel not have time to evaporate fully when squirted on the back of a hot intake valve? From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 15:57:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA02804 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:57:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA02800 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:57:40 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.12] (p12.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.12]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA28446 for mail_from ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:57:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:57:32 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Jemison Richard wrote: > > >> [Jemison Richard] Turbos actually do care I believe. Most turbo >> cams are wide center line, mild duration, moderate to high lift cams. You >> don't want to lose all that pressure out the exhaust pipe! Also, cylinder >> filling is largely taken care of my the pressure developed by the turbo. So >> you don't need cylinder scavenging. You already have a large pressure >> differential across the cylinder to remove combustion gases and recharge the >> cylinder. >> >> Also, grab your favorite cam grinders spec sheets or catalog and >> compare hot street and turbo cams and check me out on this. >> >> Rick > >Two points, Removing the combustion gasses is a problem with Turbo motors >as the >exhaust pressure can be higher than the intake. They take a standard, mild cam >and crutch the exhaust by openning it sooner; more time to blow down. Net >result >is wider CL. > >You're right though, boost is better than lotts of cam and RPM, but a turbo at >high rpm will still need a big cam thou not as big as a na motor. > >My point was (originally), that we should tune the idle by driveability and >'dead recon' the idle mixture from there and forget all that learning stuff (at >idle). Just use the O2 for a reference. That assumes that we can easily change >the map and have a good trimmer for the map sensor. > >My 482 idled like a kitten with a Predator carb, alcohol, and roller >cam..... it >just dribbled raw fuel out of the headers at idle, not enough to clean the >floor, but almost. (another sick try at humor). > >later Tom Hey Tom-- 1. Sick humor is the very best kind--the sicker and less politically correct, the better the laugh!!! 2. Turbo motors DO care. Yes, you can make up for HP lost to bad intake timing and bad intake tract flow (all the way from the turbo to the intake valves) with more boost, BUT this will cost you higher exhaust back-pressure, higher temperature, worse durability, lower HP/boost ratio, and lower fuel efficiency in order to drive the turbo that much harder!! The pressure losses (pressure drops due to flow friction) in the intake tract are directly proportional to the DENSITY of the air going through them. THEREFORE, and ALSO CONTRARY to popular belief, a turbo motor cares a little MORE than an NA motor does!!! The fact that you can cover up this inefficiency with more boost is what leads to the "doesn't care" idea!!! You really want somewhat bigger (and as smooth as possible) ports and intake tract on a boosted motor (rpm range for rpm range) than you want on an unboosted motor so as to make up for the higher friction losses from flowing denser air!!! (Also true onna supercharged motor, as better porting will lead to lower parasitic HP to drive the blower for a given output HP!) I agree that you should open, and close, the exhaust valves sooner on a boosted motor (wider lobe centers, and retarded cam) to (1) get more, longer, blowdown and (2) avoid blowing so much mixture into the exhaust. But, know that the earlier exhaust opening point reduces your effective expansion ratio, and thus reduces power and efficiency! Which also means that turbo motors would like shorter rods (longer piston residence time at BDC) if it were not for the fact that the piston side loads go so $#%^ high with high cylinder pressures and short rods!!! Other point is that HIGH lift is good on turbo cams, as are roller lifters and sharp valve accel rates, cuzza the proportionally higher flow losses! Shorter duration, higher boost, and lower revs will give the same power, with better efficiency and better durability, EVERY TIME on a given turbo motor, provided that you have a good enough chamber and strong enough motor to do it without detonation or auto-disassembly!!! (If you doubt me on this one, just ask Cummins!!) This was the great folly of the boost restrictions on turbo Indy motors years ago---it made the motors MORE expensive, and shorter lived to boot, instead of the other way around, cuzza they hadda turn faster to make their power!!!! A rev limit wouldda been a much smarter rule to get them to where they wanted to go!!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 16:25:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA03219 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:25:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA03214 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:25:36 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id QAA01777 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:25:44 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DEA@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:50:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom, Sorry for the confusion. We're on the same page. > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Sharpe [SMTP:twsharpe@mtco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 1:48 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... > > > > Jemison Richard wrote: > > > > [Jemison Richard] Turbos actually do care I believe. Most > turbo > > cams are wide center line, mild duration, moderate to high lift cams. > You > > don't want to lose all that pressure out the exhaust pipe! Also, > cylinder > > filling is largely taken care of my the pressure developed by the turbo. > So > > you don't need cylinder scavenging. You already have a large pressure > > differential across the cylinder to remove combustion gases and recharge > the > > cylinder. > > > > Also, grab your favorite cam grinders spec sheets or catalog > and > > compare hot street and turbo cams and check me out on this. > > > > Rick > > Two points, Removing the combustion gasses is a problem with Turbo motors > as the > exhaust pressure can be higher than the intake. They take a standard, mild > cam > and crutch the exhaust by openning it sooner; more time to blow down. Net > result > is wider CL. [Jemison Richard] Got a megacycle cams sheet in front of me for 750 Honda (sorry this is the only one I have right now but for reference they list a high perf street cam with I/E order Lift .400 / .375 dur@.04 262/257 Centerline 105.104.5 their turbo cam for same bike Lift .342 / .312 dur@.04 215/222 Centerline 106/106 This is fairly typical. That was my point. Less lift - I agree earlier exhaust opening but not a whole lot - very conservative durations and wider centerline (less overlap). > You're right though, boost is better than lotts of cam and RPM, but a > turbo at > high rpm will still need a big cam thou not as big as a na motor. > > My point was (originally), that we should tune the idle by driveability > and > 'dead recon' the idle mixture from there and forget all that learning > stuff (at > idle). Just use the O2 for a reference. That assumes that we can easily > change > the map and have a good trimmer for the map sensor. > > My 482 idled like a kitten with a Predator carb, alcohol, and roller > cam..... it > just dribbled raw fuel out of the headers at idle, not enough to clean the > floor, but almost. (another sick try at humor). [Jemison Richard] Yea, the roller cam does wonders for idle quality. I never had problems with the fuel literally running down the pipes but the low end mixture was major goofy. > later Tom > From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 18:12:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA05066 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:12:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA05062 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:12:22 -0500 Received: from pft101.rh.psu.edu (access-isdn1-39.oz.psu.edu [146.186.228.41]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA33402 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:12:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:12:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199812022312.SAA33402@f04n07.cac.psu.edu> X-Sender: pft101@email.psu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Paul Tholey Subject: Re: Parts for sale? Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ford 429/460 EFI off a 1992 medium duty truck. Had 100 hrs on it. Complete with partial wire harness, and dizzy, upper and lower intakes, TB, injectors sensore,...the whole 9. Reply off list for more details. Paul Tholey From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 19:41:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA06486 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:41:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA06480 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:41:35 -0500 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id NAA27277 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:41:31 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from ppp063.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.63) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xmaa27270; Thu, 3 Dec 98 13:41:18 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981203132700.00b67ec0@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:27:00 +1300 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: alpha-N equations? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just wondering about alpha-N injection systems (ones that meter fuel just from throttle position and RPM, without measuring either MAP or MAF). In general, air_volume = f(TPS, RPM). Is it necessary to keep a 3D map, or can it be reduced to a 2D lookup and a calculation to correct for the other parameter? I think that the relationship between TPS and air flow is likely to be highly non-linear, so the question reduces to whether at a constant throttle position, there is an easy relationship between RPM and air volume? How about if it is assumed that one knows the function VE(RPM) for the engine at WOT? Just playing with ideas. Mike From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 20:01:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA06875 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:01:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA06871 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:01:23 -0500 From: thergen@svn.net Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29855 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:01:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:01:15 -0800 (PST) To: Diy Efi Subject: Re: EEPROM Q In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id UAA06872 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu View with fixed width font, tabstop 8... THOMSON COMPONENTS / MOSTEK TS28C17 2K x 8 eeprom RDY/BUSY~ 1 28 VCC NC 2 27 WE~ A7 3 26 NC A6 4 25 A8 A5 5 24 A9 A4 6 23 NC A3 7 22 OE~ A2 8 21 A10 A1 9 20 CE~ A0 10 19 D7 D0 11 18 D6 D1 12 17 D5 D3 13 16 D4 GND 14 15 D3 Compare this to a 2864. You may be able to tie a couple of the 2864's address lines low and use it in its place. I have no idea what the programming algorithum is, but with the external RDY pin, it may be compatible with the 2864. Tom On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Fredrik Skog wrote: > > Hi all! > > I'm wondering about a eeprom chip referenced to as a 2817A. Where can I > get such a chip and what manufacturers make them. I have searched the web > and found nothing useable. My ordinary electronics supplier here in Sweden > don't seem to have it in stock. > As I understand it's a 2K*8 unit, but that's all I could find about it. > If it's not available, could it be easily replaced with a near equal unit? > My electronics supplier have a chip called 2816. Looks like it has 24 pins > instead of 28 as the 2817 seems to have. > > Appreciate some help, as I don't have any experience with memory chips. > > Thanx! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University > > Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@cs.umu.se > Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog/ > 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 > > Living and dying laughing and crying > Once you have seen it you will never be the same > Life in the fast lane is just how it seems > Hard and it is heavy dirty and mean > /MetallicA > From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 20:49:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07580 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:49:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bo.nznet.gen.nz (nznet.gen.nz [203.98.34.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07574 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:49:18 -0500 Received: from amiga3k (max2-ak15.nznet.gen.nz [203.98.35.80]) by bo.nznet.gen.nz (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA28976 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:02:43 +1300 Date: 03 Dec 98 14:47:42 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: Re: EEPROM Q To: "Fredrik Skog" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1053.641T2125T8873860@nznet.gen.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Fredrik Skog wrote: >I'm wondering about a eeprom chip referenced to as a 2817A. Where can I >get such a chip and what manufacturers make them. I have searched the web >and found nothing useable. My ordinary electronics supplier here in Sweden >don't seem to have it in stock. You can use any 8bit wide eeprom. If you can't find a 2k*8bit, then you can use a bigger or smaller one (so long as what your storing in it will fit). If you go to somewhere like www.partminer.com, you can get a program that will do a search of a dozen or so suppliers and one of them is bound to have one. I have a datasheet for a XICOR eeprom X28C64. This is a 8K*8bit eeprom and is pin compatible with the 2K part, it just uses a larger chunk of the address space (if you connect the higher address lines). Go to http://www.ideal.net.au/chipdir/ for a pritty good directory of parts and suppliers. Then go to a supplier's page and get the datasheet. -- Tom Parker - tparker@nznet.gen.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 20:50:43 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA07615 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:50:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA07610 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:50:42 -0500 From: ChrisBourk@aol.com Received: from ChrisBourk@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id KNOQa07664 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:48:32 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:48:32 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Parts for sale? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 60 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-12-02 12:54:58 EST, you write: << > > Mallory 110FI fuel pump... new, never used, still in box... sell for > 10% less than summit's price + shipping. >> That's a bad deal. 10% more at Summit is a better all in price. To equal Summit's price try -25% Christopher From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 21:06:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA08043 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:06:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08039 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:06:38 -0500 Received: from mafic.isi.edu (mafic.isi.edu [128.9.64.214]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA28895 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jwills@localhost) by mafic.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id SAA18392; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 18:06:36 -0800 (PST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: IC Identify from DENSO EFI controller.. help? From: Jerry Wills Date: 02 Dec 1998 18:06:36 -0800 Message-ID: <7fbtlm568j.fsf@mafic.isi.edu> Lines: 56 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Folks, I opened up my SD EFI box from a GTS1000 YAMAHA (detuned 1000cc motorcycle engine) with 10,500 rpm redline. I've Identify a few of the big chips, the small ones are standard HC logic. Here is what I have so far. Hitachi HD63B40P 28DIP 6800 programmable timer but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi Hitachi HD63B21P 40DIP 6800 PIA but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi ND MG2530 40DIP ? ND MG614 16-20 DIP I didn't write it down, thought I had the memory chip covered with the 28 pin part. The Nippon Denso chips didn't appear in the IC Master and Hitachi was little help. Looks like I'll need some old data books, from around 91 This unit was put into service in 93. The outside of the box has this on it, for what its worth 4HH-8591A-00 122100-0040 I\ 12V TBDF03 I \ I | Thats a large "D" I / ND DENSO JAPAN I/ Hand written in felt BELOW 3252 This is a 2 sided PCB, no interlayers, so following the traces is easy. The point to this abuse is that 94 GTS's has an updated program and are much smoother on deceleration and don't surge at idle. I thought that update exercise was in order and with thru-hole parts, adding sockets and removing parts intacted isn't difficult to do. Thanks, Jerry From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 21:07:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA08062 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:07:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08057 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:07:28 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.9] (p9.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.9]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA24826 for mail_from ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:07:24 -0700 Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:07:24 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: alpha-N equations? Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Just wondering about alpha-N injection systems (ones that meter fuel just >from throttle position and RPM, without measuring either MAP or MAF). > >In general, air_volume = f(TPS, RPM). > >Is it necessary to keep a 3D map, or can it be reduced to a 2D lookup and a >calculation to correct for the other parameter? > >I think that the relationship between TPS and air flow is likely to be >highly non-linear, so the question reduces to whether at a constant >throttle position, there is an easy relationship between RPM and air volume? > >How about if it is assumed that one knows the function VE(RPM) for the >engine at WOT? > >Just playing with ideas. > >Mike Based on a long ago memory of the shape of a mechanical alpha-N cam,----it's pretty non-linear. Would hare to try to curve fit to the shape!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 21:19:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA08391 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:19:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from stimpy.fp.co.nz (stimpy.fp.co.nz [202.12.105.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08385 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:19:19 -0500 Received: from minor.fp.co.nz (minor [97.1.1.12]) by stimpy.fp.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27490 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:19:11 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from psc.fp.co.nz by minor.fp.co.nz (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with ESMTP id PAA14330 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:19:10 +1300 Message-Id: <199812030219.PAA14330@minor.fp.co.nz> Received: from SCRATCHY/SpoolDir by psc.fp.co.nz (Mercury 1.31); 3 Dec 98 15:21:01 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by SCRATCHY (Mercury 1.31); 3 Dec 98 15:20:58 +1100 From: "Tony Bryant" Organization: Fisher & Paykel PSC To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:20:56 +1200 Subject: Re: alpha-N equations? Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.19981203132700.00b67ec0@southern.co.nz> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date sent: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 13:27:00 +1300 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: alpha-N equations? Send reply to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Just wondering about alpha-N injection systems (ones that meter fuel just > from throttle position and RPM, without measuring either MAP or MAF). > > In general, air_volume = f(TPS, RPM). > > Is it necessary to keep a 3D map, or can it be reduced to a 2D lookup and a > calculation to correct for the other parameter? > > I think that the relationship between TPS and air flow is likely to be > highly non-linear, so the question reduces to whether at a constant > throttle position, there is an easy relationship between RPM and air volume? > > How about if it is assumed that one knows the function VE(RPM) for the > engine at WOT? > > Just playing with ideas. > THEORY: You are playing with two formulas here: (1) airflow = VE(RPM,MAP)*RPM (this is how MAP ECU work) (2) airflow = compressflowfunction(Throttle open area,MAP,IAT) - i.e known pressure drop across an orifice of known area at a given temperature yeilds a known airflow - see back of heywood or any gas dynamics text etc for details this one. first consider (1): For mild cams, or at reasonable RPMs. VE is proportional to MAP: (1a) airflow=VEw(RPM)*RPM*MAP (VEw=VE at WOT) But of course the whole point of alpha-N is not having MAP, so if you simultaneously solve (1a) and (2), you are able to get airflow & MAP, for a RPM & ThrPos pair. Hint: you can use successive approximation to solve the equation for each pair. PROBLEMS: (2) is incredibly sensitive at small throttle opening at low MAP (i.e. at idle). I.e. don't expect any sort of reasonable idle without alot of fine tuning. (1a) doesn't apply for any sort of performance cam. Doesn't even apply at any reasonable idle with a stock cam. Self EGR will totally screw up this scheme. Oversensitive is the word I would use to describe this scheme. When I was trying it out, I couldn't get enough accuracy in the TPS at small openings to get it to idle even half decently. Running EGO feedback could probably tame it down enough for street use, but running open loop with this is race only IMHO. MAP seems like a much more robust idea to me. Good luck. From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 21:30:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA08740 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:30:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08735 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:30:15 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA22003 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:30:13 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:30:27 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4DEF@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: alpha-N equations? Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:30:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike, Hello. I'm trying to efi a 4 cyl inline 4 stroke motorcycle (Yamaha XS1100) and after talking with some very knowledgeable folks on this and the EFI332 lists I've settled to this solution myself. I'm afraid I don't have any experience with the system yet but intend to implement basically what you're describing here. I spoke with Sandy Ganz (CA) and she indicated she was even working on an efi system that basically emulated the old Hilborn constant flow injection systems. Basically, she would just fire the injectors periodically completely irrespective of crank position! Although she didn't say I'm assuming she would monitor rpm and increase flow with rpm. She indicated in our conversation (and I've heard this on the lists also) that the main drawback to the method she's taking is low end / idle quality. My engine has a 180 degree crank. Pistons 1 and 4 being a pair and 2 and 3 being a pair. Each pair is at TDC at the same time but on different strokes in the cycle. The ignition system fires the plugs in pairs. I was looking to fire the injectors basically the same way and off the same crank pickups. As for the algorithm, I have thought about this some and I was thinking of a 4 stage system, the stages being: startup rpm < 700 TPS = 0 idle rpm > 700 for some time period TPS = 0 normal rpm > 1200 and < redline - 2500 rpm TPS > 0 TPS < max (by some predetermined amount) WOT rpm >= redline - 2500 TPS > predetermined amount above and <= MAX Within each "stage" injector pulse width would be based on a 2D table of TPS versus rpm. This table would be initially established by experimentation. I'm thinking of driving this system with a PIC device along with a driver / drivers to boost the output signal to the level required to fire the injectors. At this point here are my variables: INPUTS: rpm digital 1 crank position digital 2 TPS analog 1 O2 analog 1 (at least for experimental development of the maps) timers digital 3 (count down timers to time event durations) keypad digital 3 (1 key for mode (startup, idle, normal, WOT), 2 keys for increase (+) or decrease (-) ) OUTPUT: injector fire signals digital 2 These ideas are in their very early stages of development but this is my thinking at this point. Let me know what you (or others on the list) think. That's why I'm here. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Morrin [SMTP:mikem@southern.co.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 7:27 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: alpha-N equations? > > Just wondering about alpha-N injection systems (ones that meter fuel just > from throttle position and RPM, without measuring either MAP or MAF). > > In general, air_volume = f(TPS, RPM). > > Is it necessary to keep a 3D map, or can it be reduced to a 2D lookup and > a > calculation to correct for the other parameter? > > I think that the relationship between TPS and air flow is likely to be > highly non-linear, so the question reduces to whether at a constant > throttle position, there is an easy relationship between RPM and air > volume? > > How about if it is assumed that one knows the function VE(RPM) for the > engine at WOT? > > Just playing with ideas. > > Mike From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 22:36:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA10032 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:36:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10028 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:36:25 -0500 Received: from AS52-24-197.cas-kit.golden.net (AS52-24-197.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.132.197]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA05470 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:36:21 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812030336.WAA05470@golden.net> X-Sender: trinity@golden.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:35:53 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: trinity@golden.net (Mike P.) Subject: Re: IC Identify from DENSO EFI controller.. help? Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi Folks, > I opened up my SD EFI box from a GTS1000 YAMAHA (detuned 1000cc >motorcycle engine) with 10,500 rpm redline. I've Identify a few of the >big chips, the small ones are standard HC logic. Here is what I have so >far. > >Hitachi HD63B40P 28DIP 6800 programmable timer > but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi > >Hitachi HD63B21P 40DIP 6800 PIA > but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi > Very interesting. My 1994 Ford Probe GT (with Mazda's 2.5L and a Nippon-built PCM) also uses these two devices. The 6340 is used primarily to drive 3 of the injectors (with the other 3 being driven using output compares from the processor itself) while the 6321 is used as a general I/O device used to read several input discretes and to control several solenoids as well. >ND MG2530 40DIP ? > >ND MG614 16-20 DIP I didn't write it down, thought I had the > memory chip covered with the 28 pin part. > >The Nippon Denso chips didn't appear in the IC Master and Hitachi was little help. >Looks like I'll need some old data books, from around 91 > >This unit was put into service in 93. The outside of the box has this on it, >for what its worth > Wish I could help you with these Jerry. I've got a bunch of ND parts on my PCM boards too (like MP611, 151811-0890, SE134, SE077, SE074, 151821-0020, SE123 etc) that I've surmised the function of but have no data sheets on. If you are lucky enough to find a source of datasheets for ND-labelled chips, please let me know where you found it. --- Mike 94PGT http://www.golden.net/~trinity From diy_efi-owner Wed Dec 2 23:56:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA11671 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:56:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA11666 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:56:51 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-19.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.37]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAB12612 for ; Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:56:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010b01be1e79$d8c1acc0$25198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Programming 808 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:00:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well continuing along here are some more locations off the 808 asbx. For those new to the list be sure to read the archives about 101+808. These locations are are as I see them, and few have been verified, so when attempting to use this info, use care, and take complete notes. If errors are found please feel free to contact me. Again this is for educational purposes, and learning engine management. Bruce This applies to the 1227808/1227165 ALL FILES ARE COMPARED TO 8 CYL. Address 4TCyl 4 Cyl 6 Cyl 8 Cyl Discription $AF $B5 $B9 $BC FAN LOW CLNT dC xC20D $B3 $B9 $BD $C4 FAN HI CLNT .75 xC20E $14 $14 $37 FAN HI KPH xC20F $B9 $B9 $C0 $C1 FAN LOW CLNT dC xC210 $C0 $C0 $C8 FAN HI CLNT .75 xC211 $00 $00 $0A FAN KPH xC212 $FD $FA ACC HI TPS .390 xC213 $04 ACC DELAY xC214 $FE $FE $E8 ACC HI RPM x25 xC215 $F0 $F0 $D8 ACC LOW RPM xC216 $0A GEN DELAY .1 xC217 $14 DOI TRIM xC218 $00 HI MAT xC219 $6E LO BAT .1 xC21A $C0 BAT MULTI .390625 xC21B $64 $64 $64 $40 HI TPS xC21C $0A LOW TPS xC21D $00 VAR TRP (8) xC21E $32 $32 $6C xC21F $20 $1A OUT LIM NV GR RPM/KPH xC220 $05 LIT RPM TO 5 xC221 $05 LIT DEL GR 5 xC222 $1E OUT LIT GR 2-5 xC223 $27 $20 LIT DEL GEAR 4 xC224 $06 OUT LIT TOL 4 xC225 $FF OUT LIT SHIFT RPM 4 xC226 $D0 $D0 $CD OUT LIT SHIFT MAP 4 xC227 $34 $2F OUT LIT NV GR 3 xC228 $08 OUT LIT RPM TOL 3 xC229 $FF OUT LIT SHIFT RPM 3 xC22A $D0 $D0 $CD OUT LIT SHIFT MAP 3 xC22B $49 $47 OUT LIT NV GR 2 xC22C $0C OUT LIT RPM TOL 2 xC22D $FF OUT LIT SHIFT RPM 2 xC22E $D0 $D0 $CD OUT LIT SHIFT MAP 2 xC22F $7A $7D OUT LIT NV GR 1 xC230 $0F OUT LIT RPM TOL 1 xC231 $FF OUT LIT SHIFT RPM 1 xC232 $D0 $D0 $CD OUT LIT SHIFT MAP 1 xC233 Table OUT LIT RPM Threshold TPSxRPM xC239 $6E $6E $70 TCC LO CLT TMP .75d C xC23A $02 TCC HYST %TPS xC23B $50 $50 $5A TCC HI KPH xC23C $0A TCC HI TPS xC23D $0A TCC LO TPS xC23E $04 TCC NEG DELTA TPS% xC23F $05 $05 $04 TCC POS TPS% xC240 $0A TCC LOK DEL xC241 $0F $0F $14 TCC UNL DELTA HI SEC xC242 $00 TCC UNL DELTA LO SEC xC243 $37 $37 $48 $46 TCC LOK KPH (70) xC244 $30 $30 $44 $40 TCC UNLOK KPH (64) xC245 $38 $38 $33 $2E TCC UNL TPS %(KPH)(32) xC246 $38 $38 $33 $2E (40) xC247 $38 $38 $33 $2E (48) xC248 $48 $48 $33 $2E (56) xC249 $5A $5A $33 $40 (64) xC24A $73 $73 $55 $4D (72) xC24B $80 $80 $61 (80) xC24C $8D $8D $6E $73 (88) xC24D $97 $97 $85 (96) xC24E $A6 $A6 $A6 $A1 (104) xC24F $CD $CD $A6 $B3 (112) xC250 $1A $1A $0A $0D TCC LCK TPS% (KPH) (32) xC251 $1A $1A $0A $0D (40) xC252 $1A $1A $0A $0D (48) xC253 $26 $26 $0A $0D (56) xC254 $31 $31 $1A $14 (64) xC255 $40 $40 $26 $24 (72) xC256 $4D $4D $38 (80) xC257 $5A $5A $4A $4D (88) xC258 $6E $6E $5A $5C (96) xC259 $78 $78 $6C $73 (104) xC25A $84 $84 $7B (112) xC25B $38 $38 $33 $2E TCC LCK TPS% (KPH) (32) xC25C $38 $38 $33 $2E (40) xC25D $38 $38 $33 $2E (48) xC25E $48 $48 $33 $2E (56) xC25F $5A $5A $33 $40 (64) xC260 $73 $73 $55 $4D (72) xC261 $80 $80 $61 (80) xC262 $8D $8D $63 $73 (88) xC263 $97 $97 $85 $8D (96) xC264 $A6 $A6 $A6 $B3 (104) xC265 $CD $CD $A6 $B3 (112) xC266 $1A $1A $0A $0D TCC LCK TPS% (KPH) (32) xC667 $1A $1A $0A $0D (40) xC668 $1A $1A $0A $0D (48) xC669 $26 $26 $0A $0D (56) xC66A $31 $31 $1A $14 (64) xC66B $40 $40 $26 $24 (72) xC66C $4D $4D $38 (80) xC66D $5A $5A $4A $4D (88) xC66E $6E $6E $5A $64 (96) xC66F $78 $78 $6C $7B (104) xC670 $84 $84 $7B (112) xC271 $79 $76 $8A $9E Run BPC From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 01:22:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA13002 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:22:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA12998 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:22:10 -0500 From: JCsDOOR@aol.com Received: from JCsDOOR@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LQXPa20423 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:18:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <58507c43.36662d3b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:18:35 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu GEESSSSS GUYS, you use alcohol cause then you have to worry about keeping eng. temp up. much better then comming off the track and pray ing your driver didnt get the temp to far past 230.. on peike peak we had trouble sezing pistons because the cycl. would cool off to much .BTW 14to 1 and alky = big hp. jim crance From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 07:34:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA15616 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:34:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from Kutepov.usm.uni-muenchen.de (root@Kutepov.usm.uni-muenchen.de [129.187.204.87]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15583 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:28:04 -0500 Received: from usm.uni-muenchen.de (oleg@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Kutepov.usm.uni-muenchen.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02787; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:43:18 +0100 Message-ID: <366268B5.D726A960@usm.uni-muenchen.de> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:43:17 +0100 From: Oleg Gusev Organization: Universitaet-Sternwarte Muenchen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.1.129 alpha) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, Jerry Wills Subject: Re: IC Identify from DENSO EFI controller.. help? References: <7fbtlm568j.fsf@mafic.isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jerry Wills wrote: > > Hitachi HD63B21P 40DIP 6800 PIA > but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi > Hi Jerry, when i have opened the Chrysler SMEC, it also had HD63B21P. I sent a polite letter to Hitachi and in two days got a reply that this PIA is discontinued, but if i need the datasheet they would send it by regular mail. Oleg. PS. If you wouldn't succeed, i'll try to find my own copy and scan it. From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 08:53:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16394 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:53:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16389 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:53:08 -0500 From: DAVE_HEMPSTEAD@HP-Andover-om3.om.hp.com Received: from andom1.an.hp.com (andom1.an.hp.com [15.4.128.104]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id FAA01614 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by andom1.an.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.3 TIS 5.0 Openmail) id IAA00581 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:53:05 -0500 (EST) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:52:54 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: PCM numbers. help needed MIME-Version: 1.0 TO: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="cc:Mail" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="cc:Mail" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi everyone, I've been asked by a number of you about what PCM I'm using. Well, I don't know, and I seem to be unable to identify it (simply due to my lack of knowledge). My PCM is from a 95 Camaro. The numbers on my PCM are: 16188051 BKNC 86BKNCK141015QNC The numbers inside my PCM (sent out the ALDL) are: VIN: 2G1FP32P6S2212347 (I believe that translates into a Canada-built car) SideRail: 86201K15QNC4101L The knock sensor module is: 16177700 I'm also looking at Roger Heflin's 93 Z28 PCM numbers, and it's called a 16159278 with a 86BDZL promid. I have the data stream spec for a 94 and 95 Camaro, and it is called an A274. Could someone straighten me out as to what number means what? Thanks, Dave Hempstead From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 10:04:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17099 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:04:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from jsgpc.mrcday.com (root@jsgpc.mrcday.com [206.107.67.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17092 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:03:50 -0500 Received: from jsgpc.mrcday.com (jsg@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jsgpc.mrcday.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04918 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:03:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199812031503.KAA04918@jsgpc.mrcday.com> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: jsg@donet.com Subject: Mallory 110FI (was: Parts for sale?) Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 10:03:37 -0500 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- In a message dated 98-12-02 12:54:58 EST, you write: |<< > | > Mallory 110FI fuel pump... new, never used, still in box... sell for | > 10% less than summit's price + shipping. >> | |That's a bad deal. 10% more at Summit is a better all in price. To equal |Summit's price try -25% What??? I read that five times and still don't follow it. And... now that I think about it, I believe I have the 60FI (which is similar in size to the regular 110). I just called summit; the 60FI is 127.95... I'm asking $115... and I'll include shipping! Better? john From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 10:44:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17649 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:44:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17645 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:44:46 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-25.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.94]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA24870 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:44:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002c01be1ed4$5da2c140$5e198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: PCM numbers. help needed Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:48:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi everyone, > I've been asked by a number of you about what PCM I'm using. Well, I don't know, and I seem to be unable to identify it (simply due to my lack of knowledge). > My PCM is from a 95 Camaro. > The numbers on my PCM are: > 16188051 BKNC The 16188051 is a PCM number, my code book stops at 94 so I don't know about the bknc. > 86BKNCK141015QNC > > The numbers inside my PCM (sent out the ALDL) are: > VIN: 2G1FP32P6S2212347 (I believe that translates into a Canada-built car) > SideRail: 86201K15QNC4101L > The knock sensor module is: 16177700 > I'm also looking at Roger Heflin's 93 Z28 PCM numbers, and it's called a >16159278 with a 86BDZL promid. MY book stops at 94 but rogers 16159278 and bdzl are both valid for his car. > > > I have the data stream spec for a 94 and 95 Camaro, and it is called an A274. > > Could someone straighten me out as to what number means what? > >Thanks, >Dave Hempstead > From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 12:09:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19076 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:09:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send106.yahoomail.com (send106.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.43]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19072 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:09:34 -0500 Message-ID: <19981203170933.12006.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send106.yahoomail.com; Thu, 03 Dec 1998 09:09:33 PST Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:09:33 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Re: Mallory 110FI (was: Parts for sale?) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is this the external-mounted type or in-the-tank? Andy ---jsg@donet.com wrote: > > -------- > > In a message dated 98-12-02 12:54:58 EST, you write: > > |<< > > | > Mallory 110FI fuel pump... new, never used, still in box... sell for > | > 10% less than summit's price + shipping. >> > | > |That's a bad deal. 10% more at Summit is a better all in price. To equal > |Summit's price try -25% > > What??? I read that five times and still don't follow it. > > And... now that I think about it, I believe I have the 60FI (which is > similar in size to the regular 110). I just called summit; the 60FI is > 127.95... I'm asking $115... and I'll include shipping! Better? > > john > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 13:05:56 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA19975 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:05:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19971 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:05:53 -0500 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id HAA06366; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:05:44 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from ppp063.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.63) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma006359; Fri, 4 Dec 98 07:05:29 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981204065929.00bc0d20@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 06:59:29 +1300 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: IC Identify from DENSO EFI controller.. help? Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, Jerry Wills In-Reply-To: <366268B5.D726A960@usm.uni-muenchen.de> References: <7fbtlm568j.fsf@mafic.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:43 am 11/30/98 +0100, Oleg Gusev wrote: >Jerry Wills wrote: >> >> Hitachi HD63B21P 40DIP 6800 PIA >> but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi >> > > Hi Jerry, > > when i have opened the Chrysler SMEC, it also had HD63B21P. At least some of the 63xx, 63Axx and 63Bxx series parts from Hitachi were second source 68xx Motorolar parts, usually with slight improvements. I am pretty sure that the 63B21 is a slightly faster 6821. regards, Mike From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 16:52:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA23335 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:52:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from CHRYSALIS.ORG (chrysalis.org [209.41.85.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA23331 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:52:42 -0500 Received: from syclone by CHRYSALIS.ORG with SMTP (IPAD 1.14) id 5124000 ; Thu, 03 Dec 98 15:56:29 CST Message-ID: <029001be1f07$3bc06810$d9b941a7@syclone> From: "Ron Gregory" To: Subject: Parts for sale Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:52:32 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ford EFI intake off '92/'93 5.0 Lincoln. Has sensors and most wiring. Engine was dropped in a non-computer car, and intake is just sitting in a buddy's storage area. Make offer. ~~~~~~ Ron Gregory Syclone VIN #1452 rgregory@iname.com Garland, TX From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 17:16:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA23838 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:16:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA23834 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:16:45 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-8.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.77]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA29468 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:16:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001c01be1f0b$1ed48ca0$4d198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Super chargers + MAP Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:20:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 17:32:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24048 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:32:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24044 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:32:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA24059 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:32:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:32:45 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP In-Reply-To: <001c01be1f0b$1ed48ca0$4d198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I think the MAP would work, it just would not be returning anything useful in calculating the fuel. You would need it after the blower, or you would have to have a table of boost vs. rpm vs. tps. and use this to guess at the real pressure in the intake, or at the airflow. Basically you would have to enough info to calcluate MAP. It would probably be much simpler to just put the map after the supercharger. Roger On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > Bruce > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 17:54:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24546 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:54:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24542 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:54:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA27917 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:54:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:54:32 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP In-Reply-To: <001c01be1f0b$1ed48ca0$4d198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thinking about it some more, you could do it, but the VE table would look rather odd (ie lots of entries quite a bit above 1.0). I would think it would be more work that just using a 2-3 bar map. Roger On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > Bruce > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 18:08:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA24795 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:08:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA24790 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:08:07 -0500 From: Chaasman@aol.com Received: from Chaasman@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 2CFPa00361 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:06:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <1601eefe.3667197f@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:06:39 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: xs11 EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 12/2/98 9:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, JemisonR@tce.com writes: > Hello. I'm trying to efi a 4 cyl inline 4 stroke motorcycle (Yamaha > XS1100) and after talking with some very knowledgeable folks on this and the > EFI332 lists I've settled to this solution myself. I'm afraid I don't have > any experience with the system yet but intend to implement basically what > you're describing here. > I'm thinking of driving this system with a PIC device along with a driver / > drivers to boost the output signal to the level required to fire the > injectors. At this point here are my variables: > > INPUTS: > rpm digital 1 > crank position digital 2 > TPS analog 1 > O2 analog 1 (at least for experimental > development of the maps) > timers digital 3 (count down timers to time event > durations) > keypad digital 3 (1 key for mode (startup, idle, > normal, WOT), 2 keys for increase (+) or decrease (-) ) > > OUTPUT: > injector fire signals digital 2 > > > These ideas are in their very early stages of development but this is my > thinking at this point. Let me know what you (or others on the list) think. > That's why I'm here. I'm also EFI ing a motorcycle. (I wonder how many other people on the list are)? I'm starting with a GB500 (single, for simplicity) then moving on to my FJ100, then maybe a small-block chevy. I looked at PIC's, but found an inexpensive (compared to the PIC) "starter kit" for the HC11. For about $70 I got an HC11 demo board with enough I/O to do what you describe, and on-chip EEPROM to make code changes a snap with the supplied serial cable and download software. It looks like I'll be using this thing to play with for now....have you considered the HC11? If so why did you choose the PIC? just curious. Based on what I've heard on this list about (relatively) large cams and o2 sensors, maybe a MAP input would be useful for tuning the idle mixture? I would think bikes would have an agressive cam for the higher redlines, but they seem to idle smooth. Maybe this won't be a problem for us bikers. I'm not very far along yet...just lighting LED's. How about you? From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 18:45:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25603 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:45:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25599 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:45:21 -0500 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti01a22-0120.dialup.online.no [130.67.10.120]) by online.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA24792 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:45:19 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199812032345.AAA24792@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:43:35 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Interesting tought....if we are talking about a non turbo charged.If the charger boost/airflow is very predictable....like the engine itself.The supercharger must handle vakum without leaking oil.Maybe you get vakum reading at high rpm...with a small trottle .Maybe some sentrifugal compressors would be forced into surge aria,at certain trottle openings.Making unstable airflow and map readings. if we are talking about using gm efi as a additional efi controller, is it possible to make/modify a map sensor so it starts from 1bar= 0.1volt and ends at2bar=5volts? We must have access to modify advance at boost , is it possible to shift the ignition output from one ecu to another? When second injectors fier then use this to trigger a swich to ecu nr2.ignition... Espen Hilde > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 19:13:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA25966 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:13:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA25962 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:13:49 -0500 From: ARoss10661@aol.com Received: from ARoss10661@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GFNYa05320 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:11:30 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <3ee36029.366728b2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:11:30 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: xs11 EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-12-03 18:17:54 EST, you write: << For about $70 I got an HC11 demo board with enough I/O to do what you describe, and on-chip EEPROM to make code changes a snap with the supplied serial cable and download software. It looks like I'll be using this thing to play with for now....have you considered the HC11? If so why did you >> Where did u find the HC11 kit?? I love to find one at that price Al From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 19:18:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26034 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:18:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26030 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:18:03 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA08489 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:18:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv5-8.oshawa.idirect.com [209.161.213.8]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA00650 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:18:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01be1f34$91b0dc00$08d5a1d1@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:17:04 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You might be able to approximate a fuel delivery curve with such a scheme (crude), but you would have absolutely no control over boost spark. Having run both, I prefer the flexibility of a 2bar MAP below the supercharger. Bye; Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP > > >Thinking about it some more, you could do it, but the VE table would >look rather odd (ie lots of entries quite a bit above 1.0). I would >think it would be more work that just using a 2-3 bar map. > > Roger > >On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't >> a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of >> the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). >> Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. >> Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence >> Bruce >> >> > From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 19:27:06 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26182 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:27:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from eamail1.unisys.com (eamail1.unisys.com [192.61.103.80]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26178 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:27:05 -0500 Received: from ea-gateway-3.ea.unisys.com (EA-GATEWAY-3.ea.unisys.com [192.61.145.123]) by eamail1.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA14594 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:26:27 GMT Received: by EA-GATEWAY-3.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:26:29 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Falb, John" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:18:40 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes. Are you using a stock ecm and a boost dependant fuel pressure regulator? -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:20 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Super chargers + MAP If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 19:38:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26355 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:38:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26350 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:38:00 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA00562 for mail_from ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:35:47 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:35:47 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't >a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of >the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. >Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence >Bruce Seems like it oughtta work, but be aware that your map (not MAP!) is gonna have to reflect supercharger ve compounded with engine ve, so it would be a kinda interesting looking table. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 19:43:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA26482 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:43:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA26476 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:43:34 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA14481 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:43:32 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:43:52 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E10@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: xs11 EFI Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:43:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Where did you get the HC11 for that price? What is the clock speed? Any A/D capability? How much digital I/O? At $70 I'm curious. The reason bike idle smoothly yet rev like crazy is engine size. As the engine (actually the cylinder volume versus valve area) gets larger, the engine requires more cam duration, lift and (if normally aspirated) more overlap to adequately fill the cylinder as the rpm goes up. So given two 8000 rpm engines, one 1litre and 1 7-litre, the 1litre engine will sit and purr right along at idle while the 7 litre will hardly idle at all! This is assuming comparable HP per unit volume of course. And no, I'm not even as far along as you are, though I've got the start of a basic control algorithm and have about 1/3 of my current algorithm in the form of a flow chart. I have also done some calcs WRT processor / timing considerations and requirements and have determined 3 PICs which have enough horsepower to provide all the A/D, I/O and processor cycles for my requirements at the maximum sampling rate I anticipate. That isn't much but you have to start somewhere. Oh, and I've read practically everything on this and the EFI332 mail lists and web pages, the public library, the state library and the university library (oh and my companies tech library) on sensors, control algorithms, PICs, computer control and electronic fuel injection. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Chaasman@aol.com [SMTP:Chaasman@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 6:07 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: xs11 EFI > > In a message dated 12/2/98 9:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, > JemisonR@tce.com writes: > > > Hello. I'm trying to efi a 4 cyl inline 4 stroke motorcycle (Yamaha > > XS1100) and after talking with some very knowledgeable folks on this > and > the > > EFI332 lists I've settled to this solution myself. I'm afraid I don't > have > > any experience with the system yet but intend to implement basically > what > > you're describing here. > > > > > I'm thinking of driving this system with a PIC device along with a > driver / > > drivers to boost the output signal to the level required to fire the > > injectors. At this point here are my variables: > > > > INPUTS: > > rpm digital 1 > > crank position digital 2 > > TPS analog 1 > > O2 analog 1 (at least for experimental > > development of the maps) > > timers digital 3 (count down timers to time event > > durations) > > keypad digital 3 (1 key for mode (startup, idle, > > normal, WOT), 2 keys for increase (+) or decrease (-) ) > > > > OUTPUT: > > injector fire signals digital 2 > > > > > > These ideas are in their very early stages of development but this is > my > > thinking at this point. Let me know what you (or others on the list) > think. > > That's why I'm here. > > > I'm also EFI ing a motorcycle. (I wonder how many other people on the > list > are)? > > I'm starting with a GB500 (single, for simplicity) then moving on to my > FJ100, > then maybe a small-block chevy. > > I looked at PIC's, but found an inexpensive (compared to the PIC) "starter > kit" for the HC11. For about $70 I got an HC11 demo board with enough I/O > to > do what you describe, and on-chip EEPROM to make code changes a snap with > the > supplied serial cable and download software. It looks like I'll be using > this > thing to play with for now....have you considered the HC11? If so why did > you > choose the PIC? just curious. > > Based on what I've heard on this list about (relatively) large cams and o2 > sensors, maybe a MAP input would be useful for tuning the idle mixture? I > would think bikes would have an agressive cam for the higher redlines, but > they seem to idle smooth. Maybe this won't be a problem for us bikers. > > I'm not very far along yet...just lighting LED's. How about you? > From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 20:25:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27254 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:25:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27249 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:25:07 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-209.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.209]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA23910 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:25:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36674963.44A5@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 18:30:59 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP References: <001c01be1f0b$1ed48ca0$4d198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). Think so. > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. I'm SWAG-ing that resolution could be a significant limitation - A TB small enough to give good res would be volumetrically inefficient. Jack From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 20:28:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA27333 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27329 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:56 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-8.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.77]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id UAA28991 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <019f01be1f25$f5d0b7a0$4d198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:32:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Falb, John To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 8:07 PM Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Just gathering info.. Bruce >Yes. Are you using a stock ecm and a boost dependant fuel pressure >regulator? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@bright.net] >Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:20 PM >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: Super chargers + MAP > > >If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't >a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of >the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. >Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence >Bruce > From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 21:06:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28101 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:06:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28097 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:06:53 -0500 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA22418 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:06:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from nbw-nj11-27.ix.netcom.com(207.94.119.155) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma022381; Thu Dec 3 20:06:18 1998 Message-ID: <366743E9.BD4@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 21:07:37 -0500 From: Ed Organization: Alpha Racing, BlackSun Motorsports X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP References: <019f01be1f25$f5d0b7a0$4d198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jackson Racing uses the OEM 1-bar MAP sensor on their Eaton sc Honda kits. A boost dependant FPR is used for fueling. -Ed From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 21:35:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28648 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:35:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28644 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:35:22 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA19799 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:35:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:35:42 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E15@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:35:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce, Just curious. Wouldn't the turbo spinup time be the limiting factor in throttle response? The reason I'm thinking it would be is that a small carb's air velocity would be entirely dependent on the ability of the turbo to pull air through it and if the turbo won't spin up velocity through the carb is not going to be high for some period. Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 9:31 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > > Think so. > > > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > > I'm SWAG-ing that resolution could be a significant limitation - A > TB small enough to give good res would be volumetrically inefficient. > > Jack From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 22:43:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA29627 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:43:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA29623 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:43:34 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-8.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.77]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA14765 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:42:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <022401be1f38$c3998380$4d198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:47:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Jemison Richard To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 10:08 PM Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP >Bruce, > >Just curious. Wouldn't the turbo spinup time be the limiting factor in >throttle response? LOts of things come into play with the Turbos. Some small units can almost mimmic throttle pedal movements. Just about 0 lag, but are boost limited. The reason I'm thinking it would be is that a small >carb's air velocity would be entirely dependent on the ability of the turbo >to pull air through it and if the turbo won't spin up velocity through the >carb is not going to be high for some period. > >Rick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 9:31 PM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP >> >> Bruce Plecan wrote: >> >> > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't >> > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of >> > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). >> >> Think so. >> >> > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. >> >> I'm SWAG-ing that resolution could be a significant limitation - A >> TB small enough to give good res would be volumetrically inefficient. >> >> Jack > From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 23:12:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30012 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:12:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30008 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:12:53 -0500 Received: from 205.215.232.45 (surf45.cruzers.com [205.215.232.45]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13036 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36675EB4.7A49@cruzers.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 20:03:30 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: Re: HC11 & Edelbrock ProFlow Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom Sharpe wrote: > I forgot where I got them.... from a list of op codes somewhere. > > 7B (D) 6B (X) 186B (Y) = TIM (Test immediate to memory????) > 75 (D) 65 (X) 1865 (Y) = EIM (same as EORA except to memory) > 72 (D) 62(X) 1862 (Y) = OIM (same as ORAA except to memory) Those aren't standard 68HC11 instructions. Are you sure they are in code? Could it be that you disassembled a data area as if it were code? If they are actually used as real opcodes, then Motorola is being sneaky. The 'HC11 is supposed to trap all illegal opcodes - thus preventing programmers from using the interesting results of undefined opcodes. Moto could have added these opcodes (under the table) at some point. This isn't unheard of - some Intel 8085's contain some very useful extra opcodes. The other possibility is that Edelbrock decided to define their own opcodes by emulating them in the illegal opcode exception handler. This is actually common on high end CPUs (IBM Blue Lightning (a '386 clone), 68040, 68060). The purpose here would be for Edelbrock to save on code size. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 23:12:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30018 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:12:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30014 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:12:55 -0500 Received: from 205.215.232.45 (surf45.cruzers.com [205.215.232.45]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13040 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36675FF8.10C@cruzers.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 20:08:55 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Schematic capture Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What standard file formats are there for schematic capture programs? I've gained access to a schematic capture program, and am wondering if there is a format that would allow schematics to be viewed from my web pages. I'm talking about a graphical schematic, with lines and boxes, not a net list. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 23:12:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30006 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:12:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30002 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:12:51 -0500 Received: from 205.215.232.45 (surf45.cruzers.com [205.215.232.45]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13030 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:28:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36675A00.37@cruzers.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 19:43:22 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-MACOS8 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: Injector control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu "Bruce Plecan" wrote: > >One particular ECM and calibration increases narrow pulse widths using > >this table (1 unit is 1/65517 seconds): > > > > 1 unit -> 16 units > > 16 -> 31 * would this mean anything less than 16 is shown > as 31 > > 32 -> 47 *>31, but <47 shown as 47? > > 48 -> 58 .088* > > 64 -> 72 1.09* > > 80 -> 86 1.31* > > 96 -> 101 1.54* > > 112 -> 115 1.75* > > 128 -> 130 1.98* > > 144 -> 144 about 2.2* msec > > * stuff I added > These would be the injector on times we could expect to see?. If the maps specified an injector on time of 16 units, the ECM would turn on the driver for 31 units.* The ALDL would be reporting just 16 units. If the maps said 32 units, then the injector would run for 47. If the maps said 48, then it would really be 58. * Actually, an additional amount is added to all durations - to account for the turn on/off times and battery voltage correction. > What happens to the values between the steps you've shown? Intermediate values get interpolated like most other tables based things in the ECM. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 23:23:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30302 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:23:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30297 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:23:32 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 9WUOa12601 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:22:23 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:22:23 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I missed the beginning of the thread.. You could prolly work the fuel tables to eventually work okay with a 1 bar sensor at the baseplate, but if this is a roots blower, you will have flucuations in vacuumm as the rotors gulp air.. Might send your map-based fuel calcs fer a loop, due to vac pulses. .. MV In a message dated 12/3/98 5:23:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@bright.net writes: > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 23:42:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30720 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:42:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30715 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:42:09 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-238.mtco.com [206.69.130.238]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA06611 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:42:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3667686A.DA296D19@mtco.com> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:43:23 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4D9A@tceis3.indy.tce.com> <36649555.7988B9F1@mtco.com> <9812021529.ZM9174@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Andrew F. Gunnesch wrote: > On Dec 1, 7:18pm, Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > EFI is probably worse as most squirt fuel on the intake valve before it > opens. > > Called "settle time" by Edelbrock. (more time to evaporate). That means the > > richest mixture is sucked in (thru) first. > > Interesting. I had always thought that it evaporated fully after the valve > warmed up (not too long to do that either). At higher RPMs does the fuel > not have time to evaporate fully when squirted on the back of a hot intake > valve? One more thought, My 30 lb injectors are open 100% of the time over 5000 rpm Go Figure. On Greg is right about efficiency....he just wants that last 5 hp. Tom From diy_efi-owner Thu Dec 3 23:48:34 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30948 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:48:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30944 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:48:33 -0500 From: thergen@svn.net Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA25379 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:48:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:48:24 -0800 (PST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Schematic capture In-Reply-To: <36675FF8.10C@cruzers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I don't personally know of any standard (doesn't mean much). My best guess would be to embed it in a pdf document. I've used the Acrobat plugin for Netscape with good results. The zoom in/out feature is also available which I find useful for viewing graphics (I have to go through a few extra steps if I want to zoom in on a jpg or gif). Tom On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Ludis Langens wrote: > What standard file formats are there for schematic capture programs? > I've gained access to a schematic capture program, and am wondering if > there is a format that would allow schematics to be viewed from my web > pages. I'm talking about a graphical schematic, with lines and boxes, > not a net list. > > -- > Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com > Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 00:07:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31436 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:07:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31432 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:07:42 -0500 Received: from chopper (du170-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.170]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA07905 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:07:39 -0800 Message-Id: <199812040507.VAA07905@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 21:12:06 +0000 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Ganz Subject: Re: Schematic capture In-Reply-To: <36675FF8.10C@cruzers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The best way that I used is to do the schematic then print to a postscript printer driver that is set to output to a file. I think I select the HPLJ Postscript then in the port settings for the printer select FILE. Then when you select that printer you will get a dialog popup that ask for the filename for the output. This all is only meaninless if you are not running windows... The file is then can then be viewed with Ghostscript which is avaliable on many platforms. You could also just do a screen capture and convert to Gif but that usually sucks... Sandy At 08:08 PM 12/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >What standard file formats are there for schematic capture programs? >I've gained access to a schematic capture program, and am wondering if >there is a format that would allow schematics to be viewed from my web >pages. I'm talking about a graphical schematic, with lines and boxes, >not a net list. > >-- >Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com >Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 00:10:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31509 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:10:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31505 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:10:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA05760 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:10:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:10:34 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Schematic capture In-Reply-To: <36675FF8.10C@cruzers.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You might want to check what it can output. The flowcharts I am doing, I have been exporting as WMF (windows metafiles) and I have a pgoram to convert that to a gif file for use on my web page. I think WMF is pretty easy to support (it is part of windows I think) so alot of program seem to support outputting as it. It is kind of a pain to have to export the images, and them convert before uploading, but I really cannot really see a better way. Good Luck Roger On Thu, 3 Dec 1998, Ludis Langens wrote: > What standard file formats are there for schematic capture programs? > I've gained access to a schematic capture program, and am wondering if > there is a format that would allow schematics to be viewed from my web > pages. I'm talking about a graphical schematic, with lines and boxes, > not a net list. > > -- > Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com > Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 01:11:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA32752 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:11:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.sun.ac.za (mail.sun.ac.za [146.232.128.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA32743 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:10:23 -0500 Received: from sed.sun.ac.za ([146.232.144.12]) by mail.sun.ac.za with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu id 0zloRN-0005O4-00; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:10:09 +0200 Received: from SUN_SED/SpoolDir by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 4 Dec 98 08:11:44 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by SUN_SED (Mercury 1.32); 4 Dec 98 08:11:26 +0200 Received: from halmar.sed.sun.ac.za (146.232.146.112) by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 4 Dec 98 08:11:20 +0200 Received: by halmar.sed.sun.ac.za with Microsoft Mail id <01BE1F5D.AC1AA700@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za>; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:11:19 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE1F5D.AC1AA700@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za> From: Carlo Putter To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:11:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE1F5D.AC224820" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1F5D.AC224820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bruce I don not think there is anything wrong with your first sentence, = because nothing (including a supercherger) can not suck a vacume :). = thus your maximum presure difference from ambient preasure would be less = than 1 atmosfere! I do not think a 2-3bar senser would give you more resolution, because = it is only opperated at 1/3 of its range, thus output signal is 3 times = smaler. Carlo -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 12:20 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Super chargers + MAP If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). =20 Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence Bruce ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1F5D.AC224820 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhMGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAEAIAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVk dQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5v aGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAnZGl5X2VmaUBlZmkz MzIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOkRJWV9FRklARUZJMzMyLkVO Ry5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZp MzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAIB918BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QC AAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAul4 AQSAAQAZAAAAUkU6IFN1cGVyIGNoYXJnZXJzICsgTUFQALgHAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcMAAQACAALABIA BQAPAQEggAMADgAAAM4HDAAEAAgABgAZAAUAEQEBCYABACEAAAAzMTBDMjU3RTRGOEJEMjExQkU0 ODAwMDBFODJFMTExQQABBwEDkAYAoAYAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkA AAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAoA3Q50wfvgEeAHAAAQAAABkAAABSRTogU3VwZXIgY2hh cmdlcnMgKyBNQVAAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb4fTOfIfiUMMotPEdK+SAAA6C4RGgAAHgAeDAEA AAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABjcHV0dGVyQHNlZC5zdW4uYWMuemEAAAADAAYQgFRW LAMABxDDAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASElCUlVDRUlET05OT1RUSElOS1RIRVJFSVNBTllUSElOR1dS T05HV0lUSFlPVVJGSVJTVFNFTlRFTkNFLEJFQ0FVU0VOT1RISU5HKElOQ0xVRElOR0FTVVBFUkNI RVJHRVIpQwAAAAACAQkQAQAAAH4DAAB6AwAAAgUAAExaRnV0ug9gdwAKAQMB9yACpAPjAgBjgmgK wHNldDAgBxOHAoMAUA72cHJxMg/2Jn0KgAjIIDsJbzI1ZjUCgAqBdWMAUAsDYwMAQQtgbmcxMDMz gQumIEhpIEJyFICOZQqiCoQKgEkgZAIgSCBubwVAdGgLgGtTGDEEkGUgBAAgAHB5sRhCZyB3A2AZ kmkYQMQgeQhhIGZpD6AFQI8PsAIwCfAWwCwgYgWQXGF1D7AX8hlzKAuAY5UKQGQZgmEbEHVwBJDL D3AEkGcEkCkgG+AX5K0dkGMYgB1wdgDQdQeA8CA6KS4YMRwAGmQAwPZ4B3AfkCARQAeQCHAY4P8d IAEgGMEbcRqwA2EZIAbQVwiQAjAhImEhY3cIYGzyZBuxIGwHkAQgGEADkaoxGSB0BGBzIeIhFu7D F/kdcDItM2IKwRshxw+wBcAjxGdpdhjgGnEfIKAFsBjgIUEG8HV0aZ8CIBuoGjAY8gIgbHkrMD5w HbElEAmAJQEk4C8z/SswZirRBCAr0BVwG5EgExkIYHRwKfAbEGlnbt8HQBjyLIAqAAeCcwDAJFD0 ci4W6kMKwAkAFuoK9PBsaTM2AUAVEAFAEUALGBAFkHQQhDE2IC1dM6JPBRAowC5yTSRhYX8eIDOj FuYytDKBCxMytmkwLTE0NAFAMgAxOI4wAUAM0DdDYiBGA2GaOgyDYg/gFpMgUCRQgR5yW1NNVFA6 LnAhFsBscEBiNAFodPQubg/AXRblOHAGYAIwQzjXOJBpZGF5G6BETQWQZQbQKDEwNBugMUg5OTgk 4DI6FjFBMk07t1RvONcdIHlfmQEQaUBAsRWwMi4J8MhnLm8YUG8tGvAr4Y1BUGQMcDvHdWJqMuF/ ONdDEB2xHmAPgR4hBCAr+QXQQVA1TzZaMgQLthdUPyywGKEdhkSTGPIbwHR37wnhSHMYQDKxdCRQ G7AEcH89YQBwJABBYQuAG5Ejw27+JzMAFvMdcCTwJ7JFISOx+nIYgGocAAVAGsA7cBjw+yyyISBp HxAsAR2gSHQuVP8sMUiCJ7AcESygFuRKTxyw+QlwZ3ULESRTLKEG4CVAvHQ/H+EK4wqAVFBHLRH/ K/Mndk2SBaAj4g+AKOFJwe8bUAXAKagvxUEZQFKDD7D3GOAZMRexdwCBAQAkgSagX0iCGswW5Baf EgEAXRAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzDgk1k5TB++AUAACDDgk1k5TB++AQsA AIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUA AAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAA AAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAA AAAAAwANNP03AACGjA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1F5D.AC224820-- From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 01:14:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00039 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:14:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ha1.rdc1.az.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.az.home.com [24.1.240.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA00035 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:14:46 -0500 Received: from beast ([24.1.193.136]) by ha1.rdc1.az.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA20388 for ; Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:14:44 -0800 From: "Barry E. King" To: Subject: RE: Schematic capture Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:18:24 -0700 Message-ID: <000401be1f4d$e5dc1060$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <36675FF8.10C@cruzers.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There are a few "standards" like EDIF and CIF (although CIF does not maintain connectivity) but not all CAD vendors support them. Besides that they are not graphical display formats and from your message I gather you want to convey the schematics graphically. Most packages will output HPGL or PS and from there you have a wealth of options for converting to pretty much whatever you wish. Many web sites seem to be using Adobe's PDF. There is even a site somewhere that allows you to submit a document via ftp for distilling to PDF at no charge. Regards, Barry > -----Original Message----- > What standard file formats are there for schematic capture programs? > I've gained access to a schematic capture program, and am wondering if > there is a format that would allow schematics to be viewed from my web > pages. I'm talking about a graphical schematic, with lines and boxes, > not a net list. > > -- > Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com > Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 01:35:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA00343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:35:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.sun.ac.za (mail.sun.ac.za [146.232.128.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA00330 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:34:56 -0500 Received: from sed.sun.ac.za ([146.232.144.12]) by mail.sun.ac.za with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu id 0zloor-00006i-00; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:34:25 +0200 Received: from SUN_SED/SpoolDir by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 4 Dec 98 08:35:59 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by SUN_SED (Mercury 1.32); 4 Dec 98 08:35:43 +0200 Received: from halmar.sed.sun.ac.za (146.232.146.112) by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 4 Dec 98 08:35:40 +0200 Received: by halmar.sed.sun.ac.za with Microsoft Mail id <01BE1F61.12EF1620@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za>; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:35:40 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE1F61.12EF1620@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za> From: Carlo Putter To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Schematic capture Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:35:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE1F61.12EF1620" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1F61.12EF1620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ludis, The best output format would be PDF ( everybody has a pdf reader, it is = freeware). The next best would be a JPG or GIF picture format. Then = maybe DXF (it is not realy a good standard format). Lastly postscrip = (The problem is that you cannot view it very easily) any oth comments Cheers Carlo -----Original Message----- From: Ludis Langens [SMTP:ludis@cruzers.com] Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:09 AM To: Diy_efi Subject: Schematic capture What standard file formats are there for schematic capture programs?=20 I've gained access to a schematic capture program, and am wondering if there is a format that would allow schematics to be viewed from my web pages. I'm talking about a graphical schematic, with lines and boxes, not a net list. --=20 Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1F61.12EF1620 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IigGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAEAIAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVk dQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5v aGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAnZGl5X2VmaUBlZmkz MzIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOkRJWV9FRklARUZJMzMyLkVO Ry5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZp MzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAIB918BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QC AAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAul4 AQSAAQAWAAAAUkU6IFNjaGVtYXRpYyBjYXB0dXJlAJYHAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcMAAQACAAjACcABQA8 AQEggAMADgAAAM4HDAAEAAgAEQATAAUAFgEBCYABACEAAAAzQTBDMjU3RTRGOEJEMjExQkU0ODAw MDBFODJFMTExQQARBwEDkAYAtAYAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAA AAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYAOmTlAfvgEeAHAAAQAAABYAAABSRTogU2NoZW1hdGljIGNh cHR1cmUAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvh9QTpV+JQw7i08R0r5IAADoLhEaAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABT TVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFgAAAGNwdXR0ZXJAc2VkLnN1bi5hYy56YQAAAAMABhCfeuiFAwAHEMkC AAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABISUxVRElTLFRIRUJFU1RPVVRQVVRGT1JNQVRXT1VMREJFUERGKEVWRVJZ Qk9EWUhBU0FQREZSRUFERVIsSVRJU0ZSRUVXQVJFKVRIRU5FWFRCRVNUV09VTERCRUFKUEdPUkdJ AAAAAAIBCRABAAAAlQMAAJEDAABNBQAATFpGdV6Tylx3AAoBAwH3IAKkA+MCAGOCaArAc2V0MCAH E4cCgwBQDvZwcnEyD/YmfQqACMggOwlvMjVmNQKACoF1YwBQCwNjAwBBC2BuZzEwMzMBC6YgSGkg THVkHQQALAqiCoQKgFRoZZwgYgeQBUAIYHRwGFBaIAIQcgDABUB3CGBsAmQX4SBQREYgKCggZXYE kHkG4GR5BiAPgAQgYSBwZGaKIAlwYQSBLCBpBUAXBAAYoAnRdwrAZSku4iAXsm5leAVAF/MZJzEa 8EpQRxgwBcBHSeEZ0HBpY3QIcBfQGLSfHMMDoADAGlAX0ERYGdHZG9RubwVAG1FsGpAa8LRnbwRw IBgQAHBkCxErGKUcsUwawHQh8XBvXxgQBPMZ4BeyEUBvAmBlWm0b8nQPgAVAeQhgIPZjAHAhgnYI kAfgG9EaIucaABrAAxB5KRb6AHAakP0hkGgmQANwB4ACMA9AFwnuQxfABJAptUMKwAkAFvrhCvRs aTM2AUAVEAFAFSURdAWQdBCEMTYg6i0uUk8FEGcLgAdABdDhB5BzYWdlLlMW9i1kBy0xCxMtZmkt MTQ04wFALLAxODABQAzQMfOoYiBGA2E6DINiD+AfFpMjoRVwCfAEIFtTTVhUUDoKQBaxQAUAdep6 KrEuKUFdFvUzIAZgVwIwM4czQGki0HkbsERPBZAlYBfwBcAwNBuwMQA5OTggNjowOSUP8E02d1Rv M4dEaRx5XwEQAKA2h3ViavstkTOHUw9wJWAY8B8wJkF/BTAfYS//MQostAu2FwNX/yXSIpgDEB+G GtEfcSXABJAfH4MigD0+JQIJwGFtc+Y/CuMKgEknGiAiMAtxmwmAGuBjOHAEEXRvGuH/Q89E1huw IrEa4CVwGSAiwPcGcRVwG8BmFvRDJBwBGvD/GLUlwxkkB0AJAAfgR2dG8/8ZgSbCRnEDUiBgGpBO EAwwzxcDCrAvgDYQICBF4CVw+QGQbGtJ4gGgGEEiEkUg/HBoHzAvAUdnG7AD8CkR3yywHSAa0Ukh BuB4B5AW5b8hghrwHSAFQCywGBAuFvr/LlBFdTQcVz9YGzVTGeAjYfcmQDXEGeBkIZBZsQNwFvRW TQDQG7BGCJFvG7Am/xoAFXBGUSkxAjADYEyAOLHzIkIIkHM6T8AVAxlAGqDBAkBwOi8vd17QNiDp NcgvfjVTLy0DGUBAxQsW9BIBAGHAAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMMBtIr9N H74BQAAIMMBtIr9NH74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAl gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA ADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAA HgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAPOQ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE1F61.12EF1620-- From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 03:24:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA01505 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:24:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA01501 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:24:14 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA20631 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:24:13 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id AAA24277 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:24:12 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199812040824.AAA24277@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Re: HC11 & Edelbrock ProFlow To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 00:24:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <36675EB4.7A49@cruzers.com> from "Ludis Langens" at Dec 3, 98 08:03:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Tom Sharpe wrote: > > I forgot where I got them.... from a list of op codes somewhere. > > > > 7B (D) 6B (X) 186B (Y) = TIM (Test immediate to memory????) > > 75 (D) 65 (X) 1865 (Y) = EIM (same as EORA except to memory) > > 72 (D) 62(X) 1862 (Y) = OIM (same as ORAA except to memory) > Those aren't standard 68HC11 instructions. Are you sure they are in > code? Could it be that you disassembled a data area as if it were code? > If they are actually used as real opcodes, then Motorola is being > sneaky. The 'HC11 is supposed to trap all illegal opcodes - thus > preventing programmers from using the interesting results of undefined > opcodes. Moto could have added these opcodes (under the table) at some > point. This isn't unheard of - some Intel 8085's contain some very > useful extra opcodes. The direct and X register versions above match the Hitachi HD6303. Perhaps it's a Hitachi variant, or Motorola merged Hitachi changes back into their CPUs. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 03:40:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA01699 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:40:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA01695 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:40:43 -0500 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id VAA18971; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:40:39 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from ppp063.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.63) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma018961; Fri, 4 Dec 98 21:40:26 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981204212315.007dc770@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 21:23:15 +1300 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Re: HC11 & Edelbrock ProFlow Cc: Diy_efi In-Reply-To: <36675EB4.7A49@cruzers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:03 pm 12/3/98 -0800, Ludis Langens wrote: >Tom Sharpe wrote: >> I forgot where I got them.... from a list of op codes somewhere. >> >> 7B (D) 6B (X) 186B (Y) = TIM (Test immediate to memory????) >> 75 (D) 65 (X) 1865 (Y) = EIM (same as EORA except to memory) >> 72 (D) 62(X) 1862 (Y) = OIM (same as ORAA except to memory) > >Those aren't standard 68HC11 instructions. Are you sure they are in >code? Could it be that you disassembled a data area as if it were code? Don't shoot me if I'm wrong, as I have not worked with 6303 for several years, but I think those instructions are present in the Hitachi 6303, which was a 6803 derivative, if memory serves, it had no Y register, and the XGDX instruction had a different opcode from the HC11, otherwise they were code compatible. regards, Mike From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 03:40:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA01705 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:40:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA01701 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 03:40:46 -0500 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id VAA18971; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:40:39 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from ppp063.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.63) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma018961; Fri, 4 Dec 98 21:40:26 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981204212315.007dc770@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 21:23:15 +1300 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Re: Re: HC11 & Edelbrock ProFlow Cc: Diy_efi In-Reply-To: <36675EB4.7A49@cruzers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:03 pm 12/3/98 -0800, Ludis Langens wrote: >Tom Sharpe wrote: >> I forgot where I got them.... from a list of op codes somewhere. >> >> 7B (D) 6B (X) 186B (Y) = TIM (Test immediate to memory????) >> 75 (D) 65 (X) 1865 (Y) = EIM (same as EORA except to memory) >> 72 (D) 62(X) 1862 (Y) = OIM (same as ORAA except to memory) > >Those aren't standard 68HC11 instructions. Are you sure they are in >code? Could it be that you disassembled a data area as if it were code? Don't shoot me if I'm wrong, as I have not worked with 6303 for several years, but I think those instructions are present in the Hitachi 6303, which was a 6803 derivative, if memory serves, it had no Y register, and the XGDX instruction had a different opcode from the HC11, otherwise they were code compatible. regards, Mike From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 04:10:35 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA02366 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:10:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp.dockside.co.za (smtp.dockside.co.za [196.13.249.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA02361 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:10:31 -0500 Received: from ccii.dockside.co.za (root@ccii.dockside.co.za [196.25.199.201]) by smtp.dockside.co.za (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA18651 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:10:13 +0200 (SAST) (envelope-from wrm@ccii.co.za) Received: from ricebox (ricebox.ccii.net [192.168.1.20]) by ccii.dockside.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA18068 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:23:54 +0200 Message-Id: <199812040923.LAA18068@ccii.dockside.co.za> X-Sender: wrm@192.168.0.1 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 11:06:38 +0200 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Re: IC Identify from DENSO EFI controller.. help? Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all *snip* >Hitachi HD63B40P 28DIP 6800 programmable timer > but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi > >Hitachi HD63B21P 40DIP 6800 PIA > but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi Try looking for 6840 and 6821. *Very* common Motorola peripherals. Hitachi second sourced many Moto 68 components, sometimes improving them (6309 vs 6809), and labelled them 63xx instead of 68xx. >ND MG2530 40DIP ? Processor? That number does look *slightly* familiar. Maybe used in an old arcade game or something. Wouter From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 08:09:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04456 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:09:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04452 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:09:21 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-211.nordson.com [207.206.59.211]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA08968 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:09:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005001be1f86$a29c65f0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:04:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If you take the throttle as a variable orifice, and assume 1 atmosphere on the air cleaner side, you could determine air flow by knowing the throttle angle and vacuum, an alpha-density system. Any VE changes in the engine would affect vacuum at a given throttle angle and would be measured. I think this would even work with a compressor bypass for improved part throttle efficiency. MAP alone is not enough, you also need throttle angle. Gary Derian >If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't >a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of >the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. >Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence >Bruce From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 08:53:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04856 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:53:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp1.casema.net (root@sun4000.casema.net [195.96.96.97]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04848 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:52:50 -0500 Received: from casema.net (2dyn6.delft.casema.net [195.96.99.6]) by smtp1.casema.net (8.9.1/CASEMA) with ESMTP id OAA16818 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:52:40 +0100 (MET) Posted-Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:52:40 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3667E833.C90A150B@casema.net> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 14:48:36 +0100 From: Sietze Schukking X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI References: <58507c43.36662d3b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What about using alcohol only additional under boost conditions when runing 8 : 1 compression and appr. 15 psi max. boost. So use it instead of for example water injection and theirby also as additional fuel. Or differently stated: convert a stock non turbo charged engine (a rover V8 for example) fit a turbo and use the alcohol as chargecooler and to supply the additional fuel the stock petrol system cannot deliver. For street use you only run under boost a small proportion of time, so by not modifying compression ratio's you maintain a nice engine behaviour when not under boost. On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection causes increased engine wear due to corrosion. Is this correct? Sietze JCsDOOR@aol.com wrote: > GEESSSSS GUYS, > you use alcohol cause then you have to worry about keeping eng. temp up. > much better then comming off the track and pray ing your driver didnt get the > temp to far past 230.. on peike peak we had trouble sezing pistons because the > cycl. would cool off to much .BTW 14to 1 and alky = big hp. > jim crance From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 08:56:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04921 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:56:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from home2.stratos.net (mail.tracside.com [209.117.220.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA04916 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:56:50 -0500 Received: from jim-yeagley [209.119.12.71] by home2.stratos.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AA2018F0014A; Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:56:48 EDT Message-ID: <009001be1f8c$4d01d200$470c77d1@jim-yeagley> From: "Jim Yeagley" To: Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:45:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'll agree with Ed, here. A friend at work has a Miata with a Corky Bell supercharger kit installed. It's a twin screw, whipple style 'charger, it is placed after the throttle body, and it actually has a pretty large intercooler after the 'charger. They supplied an additional fuel pump, new fuel pressure regulator that adjusts with boost, and an MSD boost timing master. He's since gone with a J&S knock sensor, I believe it's the same one they use on Saturns. The car's computer knows nothing of the extra boost, more fuel is added by the regulator as boost goes up. I guess it may seem a little crude to some, with a mechanical device dumping more fuel pressure through the injectors, and an aftermarket timing aid pulling back the timing to avoid detonation. I've driven this little rocket, gotta say what the hell, it works! He's since gone with better flowing injectors, a larger intercooler, the J&S, and a smaller pulley on the 'charger, and it overpowered a Centerforce clutch. He's since added a flywheel and race clutch from a 2.0 liter Miata. Corky Bell dyno's this setup to be approx. 200 hp at rear wheels from a 1.6 liter wheezer! Jim Yeagley From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 09:31:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05581 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:31:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05577 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:30:59 -0500 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:04:39 +1100 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from host200.ny.bbnplanet.com (192.1.8.200::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:04:38 +1100 Received: by host200.ny.bbnplanet.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BE196E.58E433C0@host200.ny.bbnplanet.com>; Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:55:34 +0800 Message-ID: <01BE196E.58E433C0@host200.ny.bbnplanet.com> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy efi'" Subject: Toyota Starlet 4wd Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:55:32 +0800 Encoding: 8 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have any info on the Toyota Starlet 4wd, friend is looking at buying an import to license as a race car, after info on: 1. standard trim power and boost. 2. ECU used, and if anyone has had a play with it. 3. General thoughts about the car as a race car. thanks in advance Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 09:40:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05753 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:40:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA05749 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:40:49 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA29581 for mail_from ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:40:45 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:40:45 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu .with a small trottle .Maybe some sentrifugal compressors would be >forced into surge aria,at >certain trottle openings.Making unstable airflow and map readings. Operating in a lower density fluid (higher vacuum always moves you to the right on the performance map of a centrifugal compressor--and away from the surge line. Look at the correction equations for a map based on mass flow. So a throttle in the input to a centrifugal will not put it into surge. > Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 10:23:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06749 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:23:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arlec.com.au (mail.arlec.com.au [203.36.152.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06742 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:23:13 -0500 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from localhost (router,SLMail V2.7); Sat, 05 Dec 1998 01:27:45 +1100 Received: by mail.arlec.com.au from dxz.arlec.com.au (192.1.8.20::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V2.7); Sat, 05 Dec 1998 01:27:44 +1100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:18:33 +0800 Message-ID: <01BE1FF5.8EC55C20.dzorde@soanar.com.au> From: Dan Zorde To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Toyota Starlet 4wd Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:18:31 +0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Encoding: 18 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Not to worry, he found all the info he needed on the web and realised it wasn't a 4wd. Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au -----Original Message----- From: Dan Zorde [SMTP:dzorde@soanar.com.au] Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 6:56 PM To: 'diy efi' Subject: Toyota Starlet 4wd Does anyone have any info on the Toyota Starlet 4wd, friend is looking at buying an import to license as a race car, after info on: 1. standard trim power and boost. 2. ECU used, and if anyone has had a play with it. 3. General thoughts about the car as a race car. thanks in advance Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 10:47:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA07381 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:47:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA07377 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:47:41 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-148.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.148]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id HAA05114 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:47:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3667FF63.22F5@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 07:27:31 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI References: <58507c43.36662d3b@aol.com> <3667E833.C90A150B@casema.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sietze Schukking wrote: > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection causes > increased engine wear due > to corrosion. Is this correct? Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, pumps. Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled, maybe different water cooled... Jack From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 11:22:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07938 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:22:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07934 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:22:02 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id IGFEa18776 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:17:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:17:27 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 12/4/98 10:53:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, goflo@pacbell.net writes: > > Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, > pumps. Two related questions: 1.) anyone know the price & flow rate of the bosch alky injectors? 2.) If you went to stainless fuel lines, can ya use the in tank GM pump in a ptastic fuel cell, or should the pump be it be replaced also? TIA Mike V From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 11:44:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08442 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:44:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08437 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:44:37 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA16126 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:44:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:45:00 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E25@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:44:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sure they weren't running nitro. Alcohol is what hospitals used to use to disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is very close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm not absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in short order! Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:28 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI > > Sietze Schukking wrote: > > > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection > causes > > increased engine wear due > > to corrosion. Is this correct? > > Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, > pumps. > Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled, > maybe > different water cooled... > > Jack From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 11:53:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08676 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:53:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bbmail1.unisys.com (bbmail1.unisys.com [192.63.108.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08671 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:53:56 -0500 Received: from trsvr.tr.unisys.com (trsvr.tr.unisys.com [192.63.216.7]) by bbmail1.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01080 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:53:17 GMT Received: from tr-exchange-2.tr.unisys.com by trsvr.tr.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23015 ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:52:55 GMT Received: by tr_exchange_2.tr.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:56:25 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Falb, John" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:44:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I use this set-up on my Honda. I have to use mechanical means to adjust fuel curve, but the system works well. John Falb Just gathering info.. Bruce >Yes. Are you using a stock ecm and a boost dependant fuel pressure >regulator? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@bright.net] >Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:20 PM >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: Super chargers + MAP > > >If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't >a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of >the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. >Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence >Bruce > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 11:57:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA08781 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:57:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from turing.une.edu.au (turing.une.edu.au [129.180.11.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA08776 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:57:34 -0500 Received: (from bmarsh@localhost) by turing.une.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id DAA06742; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:57:30 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:57:30 +1100 (EST) From: Benjamin Marsh To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: "'diy efi'" Subject: Re: Toyota Starlet 4wd In-Reply-To: <01BE196E.58E433C0@host200.ny.bbnplanet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Try http://www.adelaidejap.com.au they import all sorts of cars for racing use. Ben On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Dan Zorde wrote: > Does anyone have any info on the Toyota Starlet 4wd, friend is looking at buying an import to license as a race car, after info on: > 1. standard trim power and boost. > 2. ECU used, and if anyone has had a play with it. > 3. General thoughts about the car as a race car. > > thanks in advance > > Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 12:17:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09474 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:17:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cannon.ecf.utoronto.ca (root@cannon.ecf.utoronto.ca [128.100.8.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09470 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:17:23 -0500 Received: from localhost by cannon.ecf.utoronto.ca with SMTP id <11626>; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:17:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:17:09 -0500 From: Wen Yen Chan X-Sender: chanwe@indy1.ecf To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI In-Reply-To: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E25@tceis3.indy.tce.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol mixed with glycerin. Short alcohols without corrosion inhibitors added will dissolve aluminum, zinc and magnesium pretty quickly. The shorter the carbon chain the faster the reaction. On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jemison Richard wrote: > Sure they weren't running nitro. Alcohol is what hospitals used to use to > disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument > parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is very > close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm not > absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? > > Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in short > order! > > Rick > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:28 AM > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI > > > > Sietze Schukking wrote: > > > > > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection > > causes > > > increased engine wear due > > > to corrosion. Is this correct? > > > > Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, > > pumps. > > Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled, > > maybe > > different water cooled... > > > > Jack > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 12:29:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09866 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:29:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09862 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:29:38 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-143.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.143]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id JAA18100 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:29:36 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36682B9E.70B3@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:36:14 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E25@tceis3.indy.tce.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jemison Richard wrote: > > Sure they weren't running nitro? Yes. Have seen Webers pretty rotted out by alcohol. Alcohol is quite hygroscopic, so water content may be a factor, but I suspect a galvanic couple between the Zinc in the carb, fuel pump, and the other metals in the fuel system, with alcohol as the electrolyte. > Alcohol is what hospitals used to use to > disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument > parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is very > close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm not > absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? It is here, in the US - Internal rub is the other kind :) > Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in short > order! No nitro experience, but that's what I've heard too. Jack From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 12:33:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09985 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:33:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09981 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:33:09 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.14] (p14.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.14]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA21226 for mail_from ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:33:06 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:33:06 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu wo related questions: > >1.) anyone know the price & flow rate of the bosch alky injectors? > I would bet that Kinsler (Troy, MI) could tell you!! Greg From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 12:36:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10112 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:36:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from infobahn.icubed.com (infobahn.icubed.com [208.0.145.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10108 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:36:08 -0500 Received: from mich.com (pgh217.icubed.com [208.157.22.17]) by infobahn.icubed.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA23472 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:39:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36681D34.1D9EBE22@mich.com> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 12:34:44 -0500 From: Scott Knight X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E25@tceis3.indy.tce.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Richard, > Sure they weren't running nitro. Alcohol is what hospitals used to use to > disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument > parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is very > close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm not > absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? > > Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in short > order! The alcohol that is used in racecars is Methanol and _is_ very dry. It will dry out neoprene hoses in a season and wear injectors quickly if it is run straight up (with no lubricants). Fortunately there are many good additives to help with the problems of methanol these days. There is still the problem with oil contamination though. Racecars that run methanol usually have to get oil changes every race or at the most, every couple of races or the oil starts looking very milky. Note that these are carbureted cars and an EFI engine may not exhibit the same problems. I have never actually seen anyone run EFI on methanol, though have heard about it plenty. John Meaney and Bob Norwood come to mind as having quite a bit of experience with alcohol EFI projects. Isopropyl is rubbing alcohol...dunno how that would work in an engine. Evidently not all that well since I never hear of anyone using it. Later dates. -- Scott Knight mailto:sknight@mich.com http://www.mich.com/~sknight IRC:SS396man ICQ:8353618 '95 Black Impala SS '94 Ducati 900SS CR From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 13:07:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10872 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:07:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10868 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:07:35 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA25292 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:07:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:07:59 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E29@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:07:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I stand corrected and thank you. What type of compounds qualify as viable corrosion inhibitors? Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Wen Yen Chan [SMTP:chanwe@ecf.utoronto.ca] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 12:17 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI > > Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol mixed with glycerin. Short alcohols > without corrosion inhibitors added will dissolve aluminum, zinc and > magnesium pretty quickly. The shorter the carbon chain the faster the > reaction. > > > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jemison Richard wrote: > > > Sure they weren't running nitro. Alcohol is what hospitals used to use > to > > disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument > > parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is > very > > close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm > not > > absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? > > > > Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in > short > > order! > > > > Rick > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:28 AM > > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI > > > > > > Sietze Schukking wrote: > > > > > > > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection > > > causes > > > > increased engine wear due > > > > to corrosion. Is this correct? > > > > > > Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, > > > pumps. > > > Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled, > > > maybe > > > different water cooled... > > > > > > Jack > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 13:20:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11204 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:20:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11199 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:20:27 -0500 From: WLundquist@aol.com Received: from WLundquist@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 5GGRa19661 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:19:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <739accb8.366827ba@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:19:38 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: readings eps files Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 205 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Help anyone? I downloaded the eps files for the 332 pc board but am having trouble opening the file to view it. I thought I had a graphics program to support the file but all I get is asci II or something. Any help would be appreciated. Wayne From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 13:23:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11346 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:23:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from angst.webserve.net (root@angst.webserve.net [206.96.226.193]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11342 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:23:29 -0500 Received: from jupiter.webserve.net (jupiter.webserve.net [192.168.0.10]) by angst.webserve.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA17201 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:28:25 -0500 Message-Id: <199812041828.NAA17201@angst.webserve.net> X-Sender: dodger@angst.webserve.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 13:24:53 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Wayne DeLisle Sr." Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI In-Reply-To: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E25@tceis3.indy.tce.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hospitals used ethanol, it had to be non-poisonous.  Rubbing alcohol is
isopropyl, either in 90% or, more usually, 70% solution with water, and
sometimes with a little camphor.

Methanol is what they burn in indy cars, and is very corrosive to base
metals, especially in the presence of a little water. 

Nitro is a totally different beast.  Because of it's oxidizing nature, it will
corrode or breakdown almost anything including it's self....

All alcohols are hygroscopic and will suck water vapor out of the air.
Any water present in alcohol will help the corrosion process. =20

This is one of the things that showed up back in the early 80's=20 when
oil companies started selling gasohol, (10% ethanol blend). 

It was messing up  zinc alloy carbs and rubber fuel lines all over the place.

WD

At 11:44 AM 12/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Sure they weren't running nitro.=A0 Alcohol is what hospitals used to use to
>disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument
>parts, etc.=A0 Never ate anything.=A0 At least not isopropyl.=A0 Methano= l is very
>close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day).=A0 I'm not
>absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol?
>
>Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in short
>order!
>
>Rick
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net]
>> Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:28 AM
>> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
>> Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI
>>
>> Sietze Schukking wrote:
>>
>> > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection
>> causes
>> > increased engine wear due
>> > to corrosion. Is this correct?
>>
>> Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses,
>> pumps.
>> Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled,
>> maybe
>> different water cooled...
>>
>> Jack
>
Wayne DeLisle Sr.
E-mail:support@sestar.net From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 13:46:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11997 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:46:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11993 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:46:28 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA29507 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:46:27 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:46:52 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E2D@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:46:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the info. I'm learnin'! I've worked around methanol but had no long-term experience with it, therefore I hadn't seen the deterioration mentioned. Hey, you're never too old to learn! > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Knight [SMTP:sknight@mich.com] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 12:35 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI > > Richard, > > > Sure they weren't running nitro. Alcohol is what hospitals used to use > to > > disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument > > parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is > very > > close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm > not > > absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? > > > > Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in > short > > order! > > The alcohol that is used in racecars is Methanol and _is_ very dry. It > will dry out neoprene hoses in a season and wear injectors quickly if it > is run straight up (with no lubricants). Fortunately there are many > good additives to help with the problems of methanol these days. There > is still the problem with oil contamination though. Racecars that run > methanol usually have to get oil changes every race or at the most, > every couple of races or the oil starts looking very milky. Note that > these are carbureted cars and an EFI engine may not exhibit the same > problems. I have never actually seen anyone run EFI on methanol, though > have heard about it plenty. John Meaney and Bob Norwood come to mind as > having quite a bit of experience with alcohol EFI projects. > > Isopropyl is rubbing alcohol...dunno how that would work in an engine. > Evidently not all that well since I never hear of anyone using it. > > Later dates. > -- > Scott Knight mailto:sknight@mich.com > http://www.mich.com/~sknight IRC:SS396man ICQ:8353618 > '95 Black Impala SS > '94 Ducati 900SS CR From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 13:48:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12109 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:48:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12104 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:48:56 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id NAA29718 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:48:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:49:20 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E2E@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:48:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'd like to know more about these boost dependent fuel pressure regulators like, who is manufacturing these? Cost? Availability? Tuning? Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Falb, John [SMTP:John.Falb@Unisys.Com] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 11:45 AM > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP > > I use this set-up on my Honda. I have to use mechanical means to adjust > fuel curve, but the system works well. > John Falb > > Just gathering info.. > Bruce > > > >Yes. Are you using a stock ecm and a boost dependant fuel pressure > >regulator? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@bright.net] > >Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:20 PM > >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Subject: Super chargers + MAP > > > > > >If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > >a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > >the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > >Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > >Bruce > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 13:58:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12419 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:58:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from camel7.mindspring.com (camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12415 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:58:37 -0500 Received: from [38.26.96.112] (ip112.manchester2.nh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.96.112]) by camel7.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA24503 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:58:27 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: dmdesign@pop.mindspring.com Message-Id: Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:01:31 -0500 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Steve Subject: Electromotive vs. Wolf 3D Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am considering one of these systems for a Mazda 1.6 turbo. Can anyone here speak of their comparison and contrasts? Thanks! Regards. From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 14:15:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12881 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:15:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12877 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:15:59 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA02401 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:15:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:16:23 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E32@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:15:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id OAA12878 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yea thanks Wayne. Blunder on my part. Guess I need to review my alcohol chemistry, huh? Rick Indy > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne DeLisle Sr. [SMTP:support@sestar.net] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 1:25 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI > > Hospitals used ethanol, it had to be non-poisonous.  Rubbing alcohol is > isopropyl, either in 90% or, more usually, 70% solution with water, and > sometimes with a little camphor. > > Methanol is what they burn in indy cars, and is very corrosive to base > metals, especially in the presence of a little water.  > > Nitro is a totally different beast.  Because of it's oxidizing nature, it > will > corrode or breakdown almost anything including it's self.... > > All alcohols are hygroscopic and will suck water vapor out of the air. > Any water present in alcohol will help the corrosion process.  > > This is one of the things that showed up back in the early 80's when > oil companies started selling gasohol, (10% ethanol blend).  > > It was messing up  zinc alloy carbs and rubber fuel lines all over the > place. > > WD > > At 11:44 AM 12/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Sure they weren't running nitro.  Alcohol is what hospitals used to use > to > >disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument > >parts, etc.  Never ate anything.  At least not isopropyl.  Methanol is > very > >close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day).  I'm > not > >absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? > > > >Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in short > >order! > > > >Rick > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] > >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:28 AM > >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI > >> > >> Sietze Schukking wrote: > >> > >> > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection > >> causes > >> > increased engine wear due > >> > to corrosion. Is this correct? > >> > >> Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, > >> pumps. > >> Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled, > >> maybe > >> different water cooled... > >> > >> Jack > > > > Wayne DeLisle Sr. > E-mail:support@sestar.net From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 14:24:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13152 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:24:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com (smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com [198.133.22.42]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13148 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:24:18 -0500 From: kv@us.ibm.com Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.132.204]) by smtp3.ny.us.ibm.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA34856 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:05:13 -0500 Received: from us.ibm.com (d53mta07h.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.142.7]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.8.7/NCO v1.5) with SMTP id LAA66158 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:57:44 -0700 Received: by us.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 872566D0.0068179A ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:56:57 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMUS To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <872566D0.006815FB.00@us.ibm.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:57:29 -0700 Subject: Re: readings eps files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there really such a thing as ASCII 2? I have heard people say that so many times but always thought it was just plain ASCII. Anyway- eps is basically postscript (an ascii printing language)(some people use it for more than printing- see Don Lancaster on the WWW). You can use several sharware programs to view it (ghostscript) and you can likely print it to a postscript printer (just drag or copy the file to a printer port) or you can convert it to something else... my favorite postscript convertor can be found at http://www.square1.nl/Frames/home.html They have a 30 day free trial. Don Lancaster is the postscript hacker Guru (IMHO)--- you can find him at www.tinaja.com KV. ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com WLundquist@aol.com on 12/04/98 10:19:38 AM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: (bcc: Kevin Vannorsdel/San Jose/IBM) Subject: readings eps files Help anyone? I downloaded the eps files for the 332 pc board but am having trouble opening the file to view it. I thought I had a graphics program to support the file but all I get is asci II or something. Any help would be appreciated. Wayne From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 14:34:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13480 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:34:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13475 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:34:12 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-25.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.43]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA03042 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:33:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004a01be1fbd$94b01400$2b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Electromotive vs. Wolf 3D Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:37:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Steve To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 2:23 PM Subject: Electromotive vs. Wolf 3D >I am considering one of these systems for a Mazda 1.6 turbo. Can anyone >here speak of their comparison and contrasts? Thanks! Try looking at a Haltech E6GM.. Bruce >Regards. > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 14:38:48 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13685 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:38:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13681 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:38:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16408 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:38:46 -0600 (CST) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:38:45 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: readings eps files In-Reply-To: <872566D0.006815FB.00@us.ibm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu F There are ps to ascii programs, all they do is rip out the text placement information and leave the text. Not very useful if you have graphics that you want to see, or eps postscript files that are all graphics. Ghostscript and ghostview are not shareware, they are freeware, and can be used to convert to most image formats (jpg,gif), but you will have to give it info on what dpi to use. I have used it on unix to make a non ps printer print postscript, and it works about as often as our real postscript printers. Also I have seen printer drivers (with Zenographics printer driver) that would allow you to print to a WMF/EMF/jpg/gif/... type file directly. I don't think I ever really tried them, but I cannot see why such an idea would not work correctly. I just wish I could find a free printer dirve that would do that job since this would allow almost any program to output to gif or jpg. Roger On Fri, 4 Dec 1998 kv@us.ibm.com wrote: > > > > > Is there really such a thing as ASCII 2? I have heard people say that so > many times but always thought it was just plain ASCII. > > Anyway- eps is basically postscript (an ascii printing language)(some > people use it for more than printing- see Don Lancaster on the WWW). You > can use several sharware programs to view it (ghostscript) and you can > likely print it to a postscript printer (just drag or copy the file to a > printer port) or you can convert it to something else... my favorite > postscript convertor can be found at http://www.square1.nl/Frames/home.html > > They have a 30 day free trial. > > Don Lancaster is the postscript hacker Guru (IMHO)--- you can find him at > www.tinaja.com > > KV. > ________________________________________________ > Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development > 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com > > > > WLundquist@aol.com on 12/04/98 10:19:38 AM > > Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > cc: (bcc: Kevin Vannorsdel/San Jose/IBM) > Subject: readings eps files > > > > > > Help anyone? > I downloaded the eps files for the 332 pc board but am having trouble > opening > the file to view it. I thought I had a graphics program to support the file > but all I get is asci II or something. Any help would be appreciated. > Wayne > > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 16:31:19 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15789 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:31:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp1.casema.net (root@sun4000.casema.net [195.96.96.97]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15785 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:31:16 -0500 Received: from casema.net (1dyn186.delft.casema.net [195.96.98.186]) by smtp1.casema.net (8.9.1/CASEMA) with ESMTP id WAA09926 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:31:07 +0100 (MET) Posted-Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:31:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <366856F2.BD54D10B@casema.net> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:41:07 +0100 From: Sietze Schukking X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI References: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E29@tceis3.indy.tce.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I see all kinds of alloy engine parts mentioned as candidates for being eaten away due to the use of alcohol except the most important parts: ALLOY HEADS ???? Are they not affected?? Thanks for the feedback Sietze Jemison Richard wrote: > I stand corrected and thank you. What type of compounds qualify as viable > corrosion inhibitors? > > Rick > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wen Yen Chan [SMTP:chanwe@ecf.utoronto.ca] > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 12:17 PM > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI > > > > Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol mixed with glycerin. Short alcohols > > without corrosion inhibitors added will dissolve aluminum, zinc and > > magnesium pretty quickly. The shorter the carbon chain the faster the > > reaction. > > > > > > On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jemison Richard wrote: > > > > > Sure they weren't running nitro. Alcohol is what hospitals used to use > > to > > > disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument > > > parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is > > very > > > close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm > > not > > > absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? > > > > > > Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in > > short > > > order! > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] > > > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:28 AM > > > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > > Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI > > > > > > > > Sietze Schukking wrote: > > > > > > > > > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection > > > > causes > > > > > increased engine wear due > > > > > to corrosion. Is this correct? > > > > > > > > Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, > > > > pumps. > > > > Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled, > > > > maybe > > > > different water cooled... > > > > > > > > Jack > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 16:56:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16088 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:56:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16084 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:56:04 -0500 From: Chaasman@aol.com Received: from Chaasman@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UCATa25362 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:52:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:52:31 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: xs11 EFI Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 12/3/98 7:47:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, ARoss10661@aol.com writes: > << For about $70 I got an HC11 demo board with enough I/O to > do what you describe, and on-chip EEPROM to make code changes a snap with > the > supplied serial cable and download software. It looks like I'll be using > this > thing to play with for now....have you considered the HC11? If so why did > you >> > > Where did u find the HC11 kit?? I love to find one at that price > > Al It's called an ADAPT-11 from Technological Arts. 416-963-8996 or http://www.interlog.com/~techart/ Here's the basic specs from the website: Small size (1.7" x 2.8") The price went up 5 bucks since I got mine...I'ts $74.95 in the back of Popular Electronics. Use with any 68HC11 A or E series microcontroller (also works as a programmer for '711 EPROM version) Up to 20K EPROM on-board (with '711E20), or 2K EEPROM (with '811E2) in single- chip mode Up to 64K RAM/EPROM/EEPROM/Flash, in expanded mode (on external card) 26 general purpose I/O lines (3 input captures; 5 output compares) Pulse accumulator, hardware timer, real-time interrupt, watchdog, 2 hardware interrupts 8 channel 8-bit analog-to-digital converter Serial peripheral interface (SPI) port RS-232 serial port utilizing on-chip SCI Use programming language of your choice: C, BASIC, or assembler Low power requirements (35 mA @ 5 Volts DC, regulated nominal); much less in STOP mode Low cost-- ideal for educational and embedded applications From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 17:20:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16454 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:20:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cronus.oanet.com (root@cronus.oanet.com [204.209.13.16]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA16448 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:20:14 -0500 Received: from bnyk.oanet.com (dialin88.edm.oa.net [207.153.26.88]) by cronus.oanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA14710 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:20:11 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:20:11 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199812042220.PAA14710@cronus.oanet.com> X-Sender: bnyk@pop.oanet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Bernie Nykyforuk Subject: Introduction Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi everyone I'm new to the list. My name is Nolan Nykyforuk. I've been following the list and reading some of the Arcives for the last week. Here is a rundown of my project. 1993 GMC Sonoma 2wd short box. Originally had CPI injected L35 4.3Lv6. I swapped the CPI for a Syclone turbo/intercooler system and the 1227749 ecu. I am still using the original 4L60e electronic trans and use the original PCM to run it. The Syclone harness and original harness were spliced together to run the two computers. I have a prom programmer and have started using it to tune my own chips for the Syclone computer. I'm using the program Prommgrammer98 from the Syclone web page. My problem is that I need to be able to do the same for the transmission. I read that Mike Pitts is working on the same sort of project (except with the CPI) and hope that he contacts me. I am just starting to learn this stuff and its not easy to say the least. I have read everything on the web pages and am still going through the Arcives. I there anything else a newbey can read. I need very basic stuff as I know very little. Thanks Nolan bnyk@oanet.com 1993 Syclone powered Sonoma plate "TURBOV6" From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 18:03:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17044 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:03:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bbmail1.unisys.com (bbmail1.unisys.com [192.63.108.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17039 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:03:26 -0500 Received: from trsvr.tr.unisys.com (trsvr.tr.unisys.com [192.63.216.7]) by bbmail1.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA27600 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:02:48 GMT Received: from tr-exchange-2.tr.unisys.com by trsvr.tr.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA21655 ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:02:34 GMT Received: by tr_exchange_2.tr.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:06:03 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Falb, John" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:54:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu They are made by a number of manufactures. (Paxton, Vortec, Bell, ect...) $ranges from <150 to >280 for the Super FMU by Vortec, this one is fully adjustable and includes vacuum as well as boost control. Availability is not a problem( Summit, Jegs, ect...) To really tune one right fuel pressure gauge, boost gauge, and a wide band O2. But really they are fairly strait forward and fairly foolproof. -----Original Message----- From: Jemison Richard [mailto:JemisonR@tce.com] Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:49 AM To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP I'd like to know more about these boost dependent fuel pressure regulators like, who is manufacturing these? Cost? Availability? Tuning? Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Falb, John [SMTP:John.Falb@Unisys.Com] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 11:45 AM > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP > > I use this set-up on my Honda. I have to use mechanical means to adjust > fuel curve, but the system works well. > John Falb > > Just gathering info.. > Bruce > > > >Yes. Are you using a stock ecm and a boost dependant fuel pressure > >regulator? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@bright.net] > >Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:20 PM > >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Subject: Super chargers + MAP > > > > > >If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > >a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > >the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > >Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > >Bruce > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 18:25:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17346 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:25:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17342 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:25:50 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA02234 for mail_from ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:25:46 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:25:46 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >I see all kinds of alloy engine parts mentioned as candidates for being eaten >away due to the use of alcohol >except the most important parts: > >ALLOY HEADS ???? > >Are they not affected?? > >Thanks for the feedback > >Sietze > No doubt they would be, at least to some degree--but I think that standing liquid (as in a float bowl) is more of a problem than vapor or atomized fuel. Plus--if you are building an engine serious enough to want to burn alky, there's one more excuse to help you justify the expense of putting coatings on everything in the gas flow path like you wanted to do anyway!! :-) Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 18:38:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17483 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:38:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17479 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:38:35 -0500 From: BIGED2022@aol.com Received: from BIGED2022@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GYISa20886 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:35:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <115ac147.366871dc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:35:56 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: LM3914 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I made an O2 sensor meter with LED display driver LM3914 for my truck and it's really neat. I got the info from you guys, thanks. I added a transistor to the LED brightness control section and connected it so the LEDs dim when I turn on my headlights. This headlight dimming feature throws the 1volt calibration off about .1 volt when I turn on the headlights. How come? I have a 2.2k resistor and a 1k pot between pins 6 and 7 that I adjust to calibrate full scale to 1 volt. Pin 7 goes to ground thru a PNP transistor and a 680 ohm resistor on the emitter. The base of this transistor is connected to a wire that has 12v when headlights are on. One question on the O2 sensor. How fast should the voltage swing rich/lean overall? Mine swings rich to lean fairly steadily about every .5 to 1 second, seems slower than what I expected. Thanks Eddie Lord From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 19:34:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA18126 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:34:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA18122 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:34:04 -0500 Received: from [153.34.238.161] (1Cust161.tnt1.santa-ynez.ca.da.uu.net [153.34.238.161]) by smtp2.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP id SAA12049 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:34:02 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812050034.SAA12049@smtp2.mailsrvcs.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 16:31:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI From: "Fran and Bud" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a hurry, but rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol. ---------- >From: Jemison Richard >To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" >Subject: RE: Alcohol - EFI >Date: Fri, Dec 4, 1998, 4:44 PM > >Sure they weren't running nitro. Alcohol is what hospitals used to use to >disinfect rubber IV tubing (before it was disposable), rubber instrument >parts, etc. Never ate anything. At least not isopropyl. Methanol is very >close to ethanol (the stuff you settle back with after a hard day). I'm not >absolutely sure but isn't rubbing alcohol methanol? > >Nitromethane will DEFINITELY provide the damage you describe and in short >order! > >Rick > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: goflo@pacbell.net [SMTP:goflo@pacbell.net] >> Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:28 AM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI >> >> Sietze Schukking wrote: >> >> > On a related note: somebody told me that water and alcohol injection >> causes >> > increased engine wear due >> > to corrosion. Is this correct? >> >> Used to see alky buggy motors - The stuff seemed to eat carbs, hoses, >> pumps. >> Did'nt notice unusual engine internal component problems - Air cooled, >> maybe >> different water cooled... >> >> Jack From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 19:40:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA18239 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:40:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA18235 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:40:02 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA28710 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:40:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:40:28 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E33@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:39:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the info! > -----Original Message----- > From: Falb, John [SMTP:John.Falb@Unisys.Com] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 5:55 PM > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP > > They are made by a number of manufactures. (Paxton, Vortec, Bell, > ect...) $ranges from <150 to >280 for the Super FMU by Vortec, this one > is fully adjustable and includes vacuum as well as boost control. > Availability is not a problem( Summit, Jegs, ect...) To really tune one > right fuel pressure gauge, boost gauge, and a wide band O2. But really > they are fairly strait forward and fairly foolproof. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jemison Richard [mailto:JemisonR@tce.com] > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 10:49 AM > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP > > > I'd like to know more about these boost dependent fuel pressure > regulators > like, who is manufacturing these? Cost? Availability? Tuning? > > Rick > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Falb, John [SMTP:John.Falb@Unisys.Com] > > Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 11:45 AM > > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > > Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP > > > > I use this set-up on my Honda. I have to use mechanical means to > adjust > > fuel curve, but the system works well. > > John Falb > > > > Just gathering info.. > > Bruce > > > > > > >Yes. Are you using a stock ecm and a boost dependant fuel pressure > > >regulator? > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@bright.net] > > >Sent: Thursday, December 03, 1998 2:20 PM > > >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > >Subject: Super chargers + MAP > > > > > > > > >If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, > wouldn't > > >a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > > >the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > > > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > > >Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > > >Bruce > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 19:45:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA18372 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:45:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tnt.isi.edu (tnt.isi.edu [128.9.128.128]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA18368 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:45:24 -0500 Received: from mafic.isi.edu (mafic.isi.edu [128.9.64.214]) by tnt.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA02500 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jwills@localhost) by mafic.isi.edu (8.8.7/8.8.6) id QAA19323; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:45:23 -0800 (PST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: IC Identify from DENSO EFI controller.. help? References: <7fbtlm568j.fsf@mafic.isi.edu> From: Jerry Wills Date: 04 Dec 1998 16:45:23 -0800 In-Reply-To: Jerry Wills's message of 02 Dec 1998 18:06:36 -0800 Message-ID: <7f67br5sd8.fsf@mafic.isi.edu> Lines: 27 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jerry Wills writes: > > Hi Folks, > I opened up my SD EFI box from a GTS1000 YAMAHA (detuned 1000cc > motorcycle engine) with 10,500 rpm redline. I've Identify a few of the > big chips, the small ones are standard HC logic. Here is what I have so > far. > > Hitachi HD63B40P 28DIP 6800 programmable timer > but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi > > Hitachi HD63B21P 40DIP 6800 PIA > but no second source or data sheet available from IC master or Hitachi > > ND MG2530 40DIP ? > > ND MG614 16-20 DIP I didn't write it down, thought I had the > memory chip covered with the 28 pin part. > The MH614 (not MG) is a 24 pin skinny dip now that I've taken a second look and I believe that its the memory. The two Hitachi chips look to be variants of the Motorola 68xx series and I have data sheets for them. My first quick glance at the MH614 I thought had fewer pins because all the other ICs were of standard width. Jerry From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 20:18:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19000 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:18:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18996 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:18:03 -0500 Received: from mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.215]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id RAA18374; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA26789; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:18:02 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRL8IhYSEZE6kTQwXsnKM7nWr3bNwIVAJNoFWBLORyw/K0eCJt8M3HsylEa From: Dodge1979@webtv.net (Roger Anderson) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:18:01 -0600 (CST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Super chargers + MAP Message-ID: <12518-366889C9-3139@mailtod-151.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: Jemison Richard 's message of Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:48:43 -0500 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Rick- I've got one of Corky Bell's fuel regs for my turbo zx-11. Seems to work well-around 225.00. rog From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 20:27:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19189 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:27:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19184 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:27:14 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas3-cs-13.dial.bright.net [207.58.99.15]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id UAA09749 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:26:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <011801be1fee$e661d000$0f633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Buiding a Map Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:30:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu OK, Ive got a ecm (aftermarket) that uses pulse width in it's tables, for fuel. I have some oem tables that are VE. Knowing that the oem are about 8.3msec at 6,000 off the bench testing then if it was a 83%VE then could I just use the rest of the numbers as units of msec., for getting a rough calibration to start tuning with. Or is there once again alot missing. I realise this would be maybe hardly run able, but just looking for a starting place. Thanks in advance Bruce From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 21:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19796 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:06:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from laker.net (root@jet.laker.net [205.245.74.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19789 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:06:22 -0500 Received: from laker.net (IDENT:root@rsnetworks.com [205.245.75.204]) by laker.net (8.9.0/8.9.LAKERNET.NO-SPAM.SPAMMERS.AND.RELAYS.WILL.BE.TRACKED.AND.PROSECUTED.) with ESMTP id VAA27190 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:06:21 -0500 Message-ID: <3668A287.926283E0@laker.net> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 03:03:35 +0000 From: Stephen Mathews X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.35 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Parts for sale References: <029001be1f07$3bc06810$d9b941a7@syclone> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ron Gregory wrote: > Ford EFI intake off '92/'93 5.0 Lincoln. Has sensors and most > wiring. Engine was dropped in a non-computer car, and intake > is just sitting in a buddy's storage area. Make offer. > ~~~~~~ > Ron Gregory Syclone VIN #1452 > rgregory@iname.com Garland, TX Does that include the computer and harness? From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 21:06:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19792 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:06:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA19784 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:06:20 -0500 Received: from chopper (du161-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.161]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA12629 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:06:18 -0800 Message-Id: X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:06:00 +0000 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Ganz Subject: Re: readings eps files In-Reply-To: <739accb8.366827ba@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id VAA19785 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For some of the EPS files that I did with the HP Printer driver you have to remove the first and/or second lines, but I can't exactly remember. This may be the same problem. The do open fine in Ghostscript. Sandy At 01:19 PM 12/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > > Help anyone? > I downloaded the eps files for the 332 pc board but am having trouble opening > the file to view it. I thought I had a graphics program to support the file > but all I get is asci II or something. Any help would be appreciated. >                              Wayne From diy_efi-owner Fri Dec 4 22:10:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20718 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:10:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20714 for ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:10:45 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA19201 for mail_from ; Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:08:05 -0700 Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 20:08:05 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Buiding a Map Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >OK, Ive got a ecm (aftermarket) that uses pulse width in it's tables, >for fuel. I have some oem tables that are VE. Knowing that the oem >are about 8.3msec at 6,000 off the bench testing then if it was a >83%VE then could I just use the rest of the numbers as units of msec., for >getting a rough calibration to start tuning with. > Or is there once again alot missing. I realise this would be maybe >hardly run able, but just looking for a starting place. >Thanks in advance >Bruce Should work pretty darn well--curve will be same shape, the one point that you calibrate it at should get the rest of it to where it belongs. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 00:36:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA21812 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:36:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA21808 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:36:56 -0500 Received: from old486 (slip129-37-167-57.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.57]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA44650 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:36:53 GMT Message-ID: <3668C671.7361@ibm.net> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 00:36:49 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: readings eps files References: <872566D0.006815FB.00@us.ibm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu kv@us.ibm.com wrote: > > Is there really such a thing as ASCII 2? I have heard people say that so > many times but always thought it was just plain ASCII. > > Anyway- eps is basically postscript (an ascii printing language)(some > people use it for more than printing- see Don Lancaster on the WWW). You > can use several sharware programs to view it (ghostscript) and you can > likely print it to a postscript printer (just drag or copy the file to a > printer port) or you can convert it to something else... my favorite > postscript convertor can be found at http://www.square1.nl/Frames/home.html > > They have a 30 day free trial. > > Don Lancaster is the postscript hacker Guru (IMHO)--- you can find him at > www.tinaja.com > > KV. > ________________________________________________ > Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development > 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com > > WLundquist@aol.com on 12/04/98 10:19:38 AM > > Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > cc: (bcc: Kevin Vannorsdel/San Jose/IBM) > Subject: readings eps files > > Help anyone? > I downloaded the eps files for the 332 pc board but am having trouble > opening > the file to view it. I thought I had a graphics program to support the file > but all I get is asci II or something. Any help would be appreciated. > Wayne E.P.S. , for encapsulated Post Script. Post Script is a graphics programming language which allows scaling of all components - very handy in the days before WinDoze and TrueType Fonts. Today it is used mostly in typesetting applications. A PostScript emulator allows you to read post-script files, and print them on a non post-script printer. From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 01:47:05 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23078 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:47:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23073 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:47:01 -0500 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01236 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:49:54 +1100 Received: from gou-ppp-065.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.65), claiming to be "acer-p166" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda01220; Sat Dec 5 17:49:48 1998 Message-ID: <3668D6F1.3FEB@tpgi.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 17:47:13 +1100 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP References: <001c01be1f0b$1ed48ca0$4d198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > Bruce only one problem.....the computer wont know how much boost is being made. ok if you are adapting a blower to a ecu that normaly wouldnt like boost then probly it would be ok....but seens as though most of us guys on the list play with delco's Id reckon that a 2-3 bar map would be better....... Justin From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 01:50:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA23127 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:50:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA23123 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:50:01 -0500 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01660 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:52:55 +1100 Received: from gou-ppp-065.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.65), claiming to be "acer-p166" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda01651; Sat Dec 5 17:52:50 1998 Message-ID: <3668D7A7.70A9@tpgi.com.au> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 17:50:15 +1100 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Buiding a Map References: <011801be1fee$e661d000$0f633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > OK, Ive got a ecm (aftermarket) that uses pulse width in it's tables, > for fuel. I have some oem tables that are VE. Knowing that the oem > are about 8.3msec at 6,000 off the bench testing then if it was a > 83%VE then could I just use the rest of the numbers as units of msec., for > getting a rough calibration to start tuning with. > Or is there once again alot missing. I realise this would be maybe > hardly run able, but just looking for a starting place. > Thanks in advance > Bruce try using a ford map ......they put out a pulse width ..... Just a thought Justin From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 11:20:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA26595 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:20:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26591 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:20:52 -0500 Received: from stevemit (1Cust165.tnt15.lax3.da.uu.net [153.37.94.165]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28195 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:20:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <000201be206b$3145cc80$a55e2599@stevemit> From: "Steve" To: Subject: Re: Alcohol - EFI Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:56:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Guys, In CART and the IRL they both use methanol with EFI. THey go through an elaborate ritual of starting the engine on racing gasoline with a different program in the ecm. Then after the engine is warmed up, they switch programs and fuel to methanol. At the end of the day they pickle the engine by running gasoline through the system to prevent all of the nasty corrosion problems. They leave the methanol in the main tank and have quick disconnects for the fuel lines to the pump and the return from the fuel rail. I watched them go through the whole ritual at Fontana at the last CART race. Also, all of the aluminum fuel system parts are hard anodized to prevent corrosion, like the barrel throttles and injector rails. The heads are plain aluminum though, no coatings. >From what I understand sprint cars and every other form of racing on methanol uses similar rituals to preserve the equipment. Hell even gasoline can have problems, when exxon started making race gas for the IMSA series a while ago the first stuff was eating all of the rubber in the fuel system and melting the plastic parts of the injectors. Teams were replacing fuel lines like crazy, until they started pickeling the cars at the end of each weekend. Just my .02 Steve >I see all kinds of alloy engine parts mentioned as candidates for being eaten >away due to the use of alcohol >except the most important parts: > >ALLOY HEADS ???? > >Are they not affected?? > >Thanks for the feedback > >Sietze > lots of stuff snipped> From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 12:21:51 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27296 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:21:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27292 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:21:50 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-81.mtco.com [206.69.130.81]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA16423 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:21:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36696BF7.41EF7448@mtco.com> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 11:23:03 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP References: <001c01be1f0b$1ed48ca0$4d198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > If the supercharger is between the throttle body, and engine, wouldn't > a 1 bar MAP work just fine if it picked up the signal at the base of > the throttle body (reguardless of boost?). > Granted a 2-3bar MAP could have better resolution. > Anybody see any downsides to the first sentence > Bruce Don't do it, Get the 2-3bar. At WOT as boost comes on, the MAP will see vacuum at the compressor inlet that will increase with RPM. It will take a really strange fuel curve to run right...... maybe a 1 bar map on both sides with programming to identify boost. Another thought. How about someone building a air speed meter... measure the speed of the air entering the engine/turbo/throttle body,etc. and using that to determine flow. or just build a non restricting air flow measuring device. Is there something in the aircraft arena that will work??? From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 12:28:38 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27366 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:28:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27362 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:28:37 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-81.mtco.com [206.69.130.81]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id LAA18415 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:28:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36696D8F.5EC70591@mtco.com> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 11:29:51 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: xs11 EFI References: <1601eefe.3667197f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Chaasman@aol.com wrote: > I looked at PIC's, but found an inexpensive (compared to the PIC) "starter > kit" for the HC11. I am replaceing the HC11 system (GM uses HC11s) with the '332 but while investigating, there are also several HC12 boards in the $100 range with a lot more capability. There is a SBC with 32K EEPROM on the HC12 that looks very good. try http://www.axman.com/cme12b32.htm Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 12:37:27 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27481 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:37:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27477 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 12:37:26 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id LAA04444 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:37:24 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199812051737.LAA04444@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ron-ny8-23.ix.netcom.com(205.184.175.183) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma004432; Sat Dec 5 11:37:22 1998 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:42:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: LM3914 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <115ac147.366871dc@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I made an O2 sensor meter with LED display driver LM3914 for my truck and it's > really neat. I got the info from you guys, thanks. I added a transistor to > the LED brightness control section and connected it so the LEDs dim when I > turn on my headlights. This headlight dimming feature throws the 1volt > calibration off about .1 volt when I turn on the headlights. How come? I > have a 2.2k resistor and a 1k pot between pins 6 and 7 that I adjust to > calibrate full scale to 1 volt. Pin 7 goes to ground thru a PNP transistor and > a 680 ohm resistor on the emitter. The base of this transistor is connected to > a wire that has 12v when headlights are on. > One question on the O2 sensor. How fast should the voltage swing rich/lean > overall? Mine swings rich to lean fairly steadily about every .5 to 1 > second, seems slower than what I expected. response time varies with rpm, this sounds ok for idle, try higher r's. alex From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 13:03:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28014 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:03:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28010 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:03:44 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-188.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.188]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id KAA16445 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:03:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36698533.6761@pacbell.net> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 11:10:43 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Super chargers + MAP References: <001c01be1f0b$1ed48ca0$4d198fd1@nacelp> <36696BF7.41EF7448@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom Sharpe wrote: > Another thought. How about someone building a air speed meter... measure > the speed of the air entering the engine/turbo/throttle body,etc. and > using that to determine flow. or just build a non restricting air flow > measuring device. Is there something in the aircraft arena that will > work??? Called a Pitot tube. I'm contemplating using such a scheme for a TBI-style carb replacement in my old VW bus. It looks do-able on the flow bench. Regards, Jack From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 14:11:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28740 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:11:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from Au.oro.net (root@Au.oro.net [198.68.62.48]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28736 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:11:09 -0500 Received: from gv2-210.oro.net (gv2-210.oro.net [209.77.96.210]) by Au.oro.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03926 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:11:06 -0800 Message-ID: <366985A0.7C8B@oro.net> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 11:12:32 -0800 From: Vogt Family X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Coil On Cap Ignition Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I read that new Chevys have a coil on cap ignition system. Has anybody put one of these on an older motor yet? Birken From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 16:58:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA30409 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:58:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from a.crl.com (A.crl.com [165.113.1.65]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA30405 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:58:07 -0500 Received: from a.crl.com (A108008.ccr1.as.crl.com [168.75.108.8]) by a.crl.com (8.8.7/) via ESMTP id NAA03591 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:58:03 -0800 (PST) env-from (beltec@a.crl.com) Message-ID: <3669AC53.57A0F08@a.crl.com> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 13:57:40 -0800 From: Dennis Bell Organization: Beltec X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: LM3914 References: <115ac147.366871dc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Make sure that the base voltage on your brightness control transistor does not exceed about 5 volts when the lights are on. The typical base to emitter reverse breakdown voltage is around 6 volts. If you exceed this voltage you will inject current into pin 7 and raise the reference voltage when the lights are on.. A resistor divider can be used on the base to limit the voltage. Regards, Dennis BIGED2022@aol.com wrote: > I made an O2 sensor meter with LED display driver LM3914 for my truck and it's > really neat. I got the info from you guys, thanks. I added a transistor to > the LED brightness control section and connected it so the LEDs dim when I > turn on my headlights. This headlight dimming feature throws the 1volt > calibration off about .1 volt when I turn on the headlights. How come? I > have a 2.2k resistor and a 1k pot between pins 6 and 7 that I adjust to > calibrate full scale to 1 volt. Pin 7 goes to ground thru a PNP transistor and > a 680 ohm resistor on the emitter. The base of this transistor is connected to > a wire that has 12v when headlights are on. > One question on the O2 sensor. How fast should the voltage swing rich/lean > overall? Mine swings rich to lean fairly steadily about every .5 to 1 > second, seems slower than what I expected. > Thanks > Eddie Lord From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 17:07:24 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA30546 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:07:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA30542 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:07:23 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-4.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.22]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA05701 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:06:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <016501be209c$24e00240$16198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Another no checksum Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:11:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu 93 Buick 3.8 ecm 16177107, BCC BFJW, 256K prom where I's expect the checksum to be (0006+0007), there are 00, and 00. Anyone seen this before?. I can supply .bin if that helps. Thanks in Advance. Bruce Doc played a blank CD at full blast last night and drove the mime next door crazy. From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 17:38:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA30948 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:38:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA30942 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:38:27 -0500 Received: from 436164245worldnet.att.net ([12.77.139.184]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19981205223806.JLUO12685@436164245worldnet.att.net>; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:38:06 +0000 From: "Gwyn Reedy" To: "Sixties Truck List" , "DIY-EFI List" , "Diesel Page List" , "CK Series List" , "Antique Tractor List" Subject: Resend:Truck Rear Ends Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:35:51 -0500 Message-ID: <000901be209f$9d422800$678a4d0c@436164245worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I recently blew away my address list and have been rebuilding it, apparently not too accurately! First time I sent this message out I got a lot of 'wrong address - send it again' messages. Apologies to those who see it the second time. MGR I wish I had a list of what rear ends are typically used in which trucks. For example, there was a recent post about finned differential covers and the web site mentions support for Dana 44, 60, 70, and 80 rear ends. I don't know which of those is half ton, or 3/4 or one ton etc, nor which brand uses what model. I'm also am aware of some models of GM corporate rear ends. I was looking for a one ton rear end for a project truck. Found one with a 3.73 ratio, which was what I wanted. Only then did I realize it did not have full floating axles, but has the bearings riding on the axle shaft itself. The seller said most of the 1 ton and smaller rears have been that way for 10 years. Since then I eyeball every truck I see on the road, and some have full floating axles, most do not. Thus my interest in what rear end is what. Separate but related issue: With the weight bearing axle type of rear end, when the axle surface becomes worn, is there commonly available a resurfaced axle or do you just put in a new axle? Any information will be appreciated. I'd really love to find some web site where it has all been researched, but doubt that exists. Yet another question: Anyone have internet sources for rear end components (new or used) for medium trucks (like my Chevy C-50s)? I'm curious if different gear ratios are available and what a ring and pinion for a 20,000 pound rating rear end might cost. Reason for this - I drive the C-50 almost exclusively on the highway. Never need to use the granny low gear, almost never need even a 2nd gear, low range rear end start. And the engine roars at 4000 rpm at 65-70 mph. I'd really like to get about a 20-25% higher rear end ratio. With a 5 speed trans and 2 speed rear there are plenty of options to shift down a bit for hills etc. Just don't need the axle busting 45-1 overall ratio you get in low-low. Gwyn Reedy Brandon, Florida Chevy Trucks: '38 and '46 Ton and a half '70 and '71 2 Ton (C-50) '66 C-10 (all apart) '72 Cheyenne half ton '69 El Camino SS396 (apart) mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 18:37:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31593 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:37:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31589 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:37:48 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-6.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.75]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id SAA09822 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:37:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001c01be20a8$c7892100$4b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Interesting trivia Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:41:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Some time ago Scott S explained some interesting facts about the ecm substitiuting values when things go out of parameters. Well, got to verify some things today, using a 1227730 BCC AUJP. At 3.8v TPS the diacom reads the TPS at 100%. At high rpm, 10ish K/Pa, high TPS (4,80v), commanded AFR was 13.3. Going to TPS 4.99v and commanded AFR fell to 15.3..... Max TPS when AFR changed was 4.85v. If my figures are slightly off to computed numbers my equipment is far from lab grade (closer to 4th grade school level, hohohahahehe). Also, C/L enable temp is 45dC... Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Sat Dec 5 20:28:13 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA32489 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:28:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from golden.net (golden.net [199.166.210.183]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA32485 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:28:12 -0500 Received: from AS52-24-190.cas-kit.golden.net (AS52-24-190.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.132.190]) by golden.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA14995 for ; Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:28:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812060128.UAA14995@golden.net> X-Sender: trinity@golden.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 21:27:43 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: trinity@golden.net (Mike P.) Subject: Re: Another no checksum Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >93 Buick 3.8 ecm 16177107, BCC BFJW, 256K prom >where I's expect the checksum to be (0006+0007), there >are 00, and 00. Anyone seen this before?. I can supply >.bin if that helps. >Thanks in Advance. >Bruce Doc played a blank CD at full blast last night and > drove the mime next door crazy. > I'm interested in a copy of that BIN Bruce...send a copy if you can :) -- Mike From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 10:28:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA04822 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:28:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk (mail4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA04818 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:28:00 -0500 Received: from modem-74.lutetium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.35.74] helo=phil-martin) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05iplimit-2 #5) id 0zmg6I-0001SJ-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:27:58 +0000 Message-ID: <000701bd6a15$089b60e0$4a23883e@phil-martin> From: "Phil Martin" To: Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 16:25:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6A1D.6931A920" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6A1D.6931A920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Help how do I view eps postscript files or print them on a none = postscript printer? or has anyone got the pcb and circuit layouts in a different format? thanks.. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6A1D.6931A920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Help how do I view eps postscript = files or print=20 them on a none postscript printer?
 
or has anyone got the pcb and = circuit layouts in=20 a different format?
 
thanks..
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD6A1D.6931A920-- From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 11:49:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA05365 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:49:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.twd.net (mail.third-wave.com [147.72.92.154]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA05361 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:49:00 -0500 Received: from default (inda01.westol.com [147.72.88.16]) by mail.twd.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA12692 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:48:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01be2138$573f3d40$10584893@default> From: "Curtis Mittong" To: Subject: GM HEI computer control Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:49:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE210E.6D8760C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE210E.6D8760C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I upgraded my 66 Bonny to HEI a few years back. It's non-comp controlled, like from a 77 or so. Is the only difference between this and a comp control the ignition module? Is the vacuum advance different, or is it mechanical advance only? I need to know when I go to EFI. Thanks, Curtis ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE210E.6D8760C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I upgraded my 66 Bonny to HEI a few years = back.  It's=20 non-comp controlled, like from a 77 or so.  Is the only difference = between=20 this and a comp control the ignition module?  Is the vacuum advance = different, or is it mechanical advance only?  I need to know when I = go to=20 EFI.
 
Thanks,
Curtis
------=_NextPart_000_001B_01BE210E.6D8760C0-- From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 12:13:01 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA05817 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:13:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.twd.net (mail.third-wave.com [147.72.92.154]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05812 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:12:57 -0500 Received: from default (inda01.westol.com [147.72.88.16]) by mail.twd.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA13336 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:12:49 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01be213b$af94bc60$10584893@default> From: "Curtis Mittong" To: Subject: GM optispark Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:13:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BE2111.C5F549E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BE2111.C5F549E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone familiar with GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a pretty self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven unit and a nearby coil pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty regularly at 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. They are not rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one extremely expensive unit. What about avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was thinking a crank positioning sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1. Will the computer signals be compatible with my stuff? I want to keep the stock computer setup, just plug and go. Thanks, Curtis ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BE2111.C5F549E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here's a mental project for anyone = with extra=20 time.  To: anyone familiar with GM optispark units.  As you = know the=20 whole thing is a pretty self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a = small,=20 cam-driven unit and a nearby coil pack.  The problem is LT1 water = pumps die=20 pretty regularly at 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing = ruining=20 it.  They are not rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one = extremely=20 expensive unit.  What about avoiding the time bomb = altogether?  I was=20 thinking a crank positioning sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la=20 Northstar or LS1.  Will the computer signals be compatible with my=20 stuff?  I want to keep the stock computer setup, just plug and=20 go.
 
Thanks,
Curtis
------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BE2111.C5F549E0-- From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 12:39:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06195 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:39:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06191 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:39:35 -0500 Received: from king ([12.77.24.114]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.05 118 121 101) with SMTP id <19981206173934.HMMH4525@king> for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:39:34 +0000 Message-ID: <00cb01be2140$48d82160$72184d0c@king> From: "Jon" To: Subject: Re: Resend:Truck Rear Ends Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:36:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Gwyn Reedy To: Sixties Truck List ; DIY-EFI List ; Diesel Page List ; CK Series List ; Antique Tractor List Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 5:42 PM Subject: Resend:Truck Rear Ends >I was looking for a one ton rear end for a project truck. Found one with a >3.73 ratio, which was what I wanted. Only then did I realize it did not have >full floating axles, but has the bearings riding on the axle shaft itself. >The seller said most of the 1 ton and smaller rears have been that way for >10 years. Since then I eyeball every truck I see on the road, and some have >full floating axles, most do not. Thus my interest in what rear end is what. > >Separate but related issue: With the weight bearing axle type of rear end, >when the axle surface becomes worn, is there commonly available a resurfaced >axle or do you just put in a new axle? > My experience has only been on 1/2 and 3/4 ton stuff, but they all use bearing-on-axle type setup. When (not if) the bearing goes out, it takes the axle out with it (leaves deep groove). There are special offset bearings available at a cheaper cost than a new axle and bearing. I have had good luck with them. HTH Jon From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 13:03:32 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06468 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:03:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06464 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:03:31 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-132.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.132]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06304 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:03:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981206130134.0092fe40@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 13:03:28 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: GM optispark In-Reply-To: <002d01be213b$af94bc60$10584893@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'd recomend a class action lawsuit against GM for designing the water pump to go at 25-35K miles and designing the optispark assy to be destroyed by coolant/water. If you call your local BBB, GM is *REQUIRED* to arbitrate and abide by the judgement of the BBB in *ALL* cases. Once the BBB get's a hold of this, they'll take GM to the cleaners! At 12:13 PM 12/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > > Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone familiar with > GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a pretty self-contained > unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven unit and a nearby coil > pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty regularly at 25-35k miles > spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. They are not rebuildable, > they have to be replaced in one extremely expensive unit. What about > avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was thinking a crank positioning sensor > and one coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1. Will the computer > signals be compatible with my stuff? I want to keep the stock computer > setup, just plug and go. > > Thanks, > Curtis =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 13:31:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA06804 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:31:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA06800 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:31:07 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA21371 for mail_from ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:28:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:28:06 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: GM optispark Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone familiar >with GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a pretty >self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven unit and a >nearby coil pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty regularly at >25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. They are not >rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one extremely expensive unit. What >about avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was thinking a crank positioning >sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1. Will the >computer signals be compatible with my stuff? I want to keep the stock >computer setup, just plug and go. > >Thanks, >Curtis > Mebbe buying and installing an Edelbrock or Weiand waterpump would avoid: (1) having to buy any more water pumps (2) the source of the problems with the existing ignition units and (3) existing cooling inadequacies. (Not to say that it wouldn't be neat to convert to the other type of ignition anyway!!) Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 14:11:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07363 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:11:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07359 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:11:10 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-15.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.33]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA01705 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:10:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <012f01be214c$b154ac20$21198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GM optispark Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:14:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012C_01BE2122.C7DE6C80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BE2122.C7DE6C80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Mittong To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu = Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:35 PM Subject: GM optispark =20 Electromotive sells a DIS (4 coils, not 8). Some one on the list = did that some time ago, you'd have to hunt the archives, unless he's = still active. Cheers Bruce =20 =20 =20 Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone = familiar with GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a = pretty self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven = unit and a nearby coil pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty = regularly at 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. = They are not rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one extremely = expensive unit. What about avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was = thinking a crank positioning sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la = Northstar or LS1. Will the computer signals be compatible with my = stuff? I want to keep the stock computer setup, just plug and go. =20 Thanks, Curtis ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BE2122.C7DE6C80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Curtis Mittong <poohbear@twd.net>
To: = diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu=20 <diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu>
Date:=20 Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:35 PM
Subject: GM=20 optispark
 
Electromotive sells a DIS (4 coils, = not=20 8).  Some one on the list did that some time ago, you'd have to = hunt=20 the archives, unless he's still active.
Cheers
Bruce
        =20

Here's a mental project for = anyone with=20 extra time.  To: anyone familiar with GM optispark units.  = As you=20 know the whole thing is a pretty self-contained unit with a cap and = rotor in=20 a small, cam-driven unit and a nearby coil pack.  The problem = is LT1=20 water pumps die pretty regularly at 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all = over=20 the thing ruining it.  They are not rebuildable, they have to = be=20 replaced in one extremely expensive unit.  What about avoiding = the time=20 bomb altogether?  I was thinking a crank positioning sensor and = one=20 coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1.  Will the = computer=20 signals be compatible with my stuff?  I want to keep the stock = computer=20 setup, just plug and go.
 
Thanks,
Curtis
------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BE2122.C7DE6C80-- From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 14:13:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA07423 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:13:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA07419 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:13:35 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-15.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.33]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA03490 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:12:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <014101be214d$07c1eaa0$21198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:17:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_013E_01BE2123.1E2B9FE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01BE2123.1E2B9FE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Mittong To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu = Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:32 PM Subject: GM HEI computer control =20 The oem EFI type distributors have no mechanical, or vac advance. = There are some aftermarket efi types that are fuel control only. Bruce =20 =20 I upgraded my 66 Bonny to HEI a few years back. It's non-comp = controlled, like from a 77 or so. Is the only difference between this = and a comp control the ignition module? Is the vacuum advance = different, or is it mechanical advance only? I need to know when I go = to EFI. =20 Thanks, Curtis ------=_NextPart_000_013E_01BE2123.1E2B9FE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Curtis Mittong <poohbear@twd.net>
To: = diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu=20 <diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu>
Date:=20 Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:32 PM
Subject: GM HEI = computer=20 control
 
The oem EFI type distributors have = no=20 mechanical, or vac advance.  There are some aftermarket efi = types that=20 are fuel control only.
Bruce

I upgraded my 66 Bonny to HEI a few years = back.  It's=20 non-comp controlled, like from a 77 or so.  Is the only = difference=20 between this and a comp control the ignition module?  Is the = vacuum=20 advance different, or is it mechanical advance only?  I need to = know=20 when I go to EFI.
 
Thanks,
Curtis
------=_NextPart_000_013E_01BE2123.1E2B9FE0-- From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 15:02:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08099 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:02:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08095 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:02:56 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-63.mtco.com [206.69.130.63]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA20179 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 14:02:54 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <366AE338.949D065E@mtco.com> Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 14:04:08 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Resend:Truck Rear Ends References: <000901be209f$9d422800$678a4d0c@436164245worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gwyn Reedy wrote: > For example, there was a recent post about finned differential covers and > the web site mentions support for Dana 44, 60, 70, and 80 rear ends. I don't > know which of those is half ton, or 3/4 or one ton etc, nor which brand uses > what model. I'm also am aware of some models of GM corporate rear ends. Dana 44 is a light duty 1/2 ton used in early jeep CJ rear and Bronco front and lots of GM/Ford/Chry SUV (Blazer) front ends. It;s now used in Vetts. (PS the side gars are interchangeable with a 9" Ford, but they are 30 spline). The 60 is generally the heavy half rear end also used in Hemi Chryslers and lite 3/4 ton trucks, usually not floaters. The 70-80's used to be old 1 ton and larger w/ floaters (I Think). Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 15:27:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA08427 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:27:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send105.yahoomail.com (send105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.128]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA08422 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:27:41 -0500 Message-ID: <19981206203131.5049.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.172.166.173] by send105.yahoomail.com; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 12:31:31 PST Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:31:31 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Re: Resend:Truck Rear Ends To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu They have been using the 14-bolt GM corporate rear-axle since like 1972 or so. It came in 3 versions that i know of... a 9.5" semi-float (no hub protruding from center of wheel), a 10.5" full-float (11" drums), and a 10.5" full-float (13" drums). They used the full-floater in most 3/4 tons from 73 to 80. They then started using the semi-floater in the lighter 3/4 tons. Now they use this semi-float in anything from a light 3/4 ton to a 1-ton. You just have to look at what you find. If its fro mthe 70s, its prolly the full-floater. If 85+, you'll just have to look. There is also a version of the 14-bolt semi-floater that has a new 1/2 ton, 6-lug bolt pattern. If you have any questions, jsut ask. Andy Q ---Jon wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gwyn Reedy > To: Sixties Truck List ; DIY-EFI List > ; Diesel Page List > ; CK Series List ; Antique > Tractor List > Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 5:42 PM > Subject: Resend:Truck Rear Ends > > > > > > >I was looking for a one ton rear end for a project truck. Found one with a > >3.73 ratio, which was what I wanted. Only then did I realize it did not > have > >full floating axles, but has the bearings riding on the axle shaft itself. > >The seller said most of the 1 ton and smaller rears have been that way for > >10 years. Since then I eyeball every truck I see on the road, and some have > >full floating axles, most do not. Thus my interest in what rear end is > what. > > > >Separate but related issue: With the weight bearing axle type of rear end, > >when the axle surface becomes worn, is there commonly available a > resurfaced > >axle or do you just put in a new axle? > > > > > My experience has only been on 1/2 and 3/4 ton stuff, but they all use > bearing-on-axle type setup. When (not if) the bearing goes out, it takes the > axle out with it (leaves deep groove). There are special offset bearings > available at a cheaper cost than a new axle and bearing. I have had good > luck with them. HTH > Jon > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 16:07:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA08967 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:07:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rfd1.oit.umass.edu (mailhub.oit.umass.edu [128.119.175.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08963 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:07:24 -0500 Received: from wilde.oit.umass.edu by rfd1.oit.umass.edu (PMDF V5.1-12 #29083) with ESMTP id <0F3K00FPRAO773@rfd1.oit.umass.edu> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:07:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (dkennedy@localhost) by wilde.oit.umass.edu (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA02992 for ; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 16:07:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 16:07:18 -0500 (EST) From: David J Kennedy Subject: Re: Resend:Truck Rear Ends In-reply-to: <00cb01be2140$48d82160$72184d0c@king> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Jon wrote: > > -----Original Message---> > >I was looking for a one ton rear end for a project truck. Found one with a > >3.73 ratio, which was what I wanted. Only then did I realize it did not > have > >full floating axles, but has the bearings riding on the axle shaft itself. > >The seller said most of the 1 ton and smaller rears have been that way for > >10 years. Since then I eyeball every truck I see on the road, and some have > >full floating axles, most do not. Thus my interest in what rear end is > what. > > > >Separate but related issue: With the weight bearing axle type of rear end, > >when the axle surface becomes worn, is there commonly available a > resurfaced > >axle or do you just put in a new axle? > > GM, Dodge, and Ford all use full floating axles in their 1-ton (and more) rated trucks. You can also find 3/4 ton HD trucks that will use a full floating axle as well. GM uses a "Corprate 14-bolt" with a 10.5" ring gear. Dodge uses Dana 60, Dana 70, and Dana 80 rear axles, and Ford uses their own 10.25" ring gear "Sterling Axle" or the Dana 80. All above axles are full floating types, with the exception that GM also has a Semi-floating version of the 14-bolt with a 9.5" ring gear, and you can find Dana 60 that are also semi-floating as well. David Kennedy From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 16:47:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA09368 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:47:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA09364 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:47:17 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:46:46 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: GM HEI computer control Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:46:47 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id QAA09365 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello Curtis, fellow Pontiac fan. The only HEI that we can use for Pontiac EFI is one from a 1980-81 301 engine. Look for the 4 wire connector , pull the rotor off and as Bruce said there won't be any advance weights or vacuum canister. I plan to EFI a 1973 350 Pontiac using a 2BBL intake modified for TBI. Don -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 1:17 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control   -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Mittong < poohbear@twd.net > To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu < diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:32 PM Subject: GM HEI computer control   The oem EFI type distributors have no mechanical, or vac advance.  There are some aftermarket efi types that are fuel control only. Bruce I upgraded my 66 Bonny to HEI a few years back.  It's non-comp controlled, like from a 77 or so.  Is the only difference between this and a comp control the ignition module?  Is the vacuum advance different, or is it mechanical advance only?  I need to know when I go to EFI.   Thanks, Curtis From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 20:51:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11307 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:51:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11303 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:51:58 -0500 From: ARoss10661@aol.com Received: from ARoss10661@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id AVMa016642 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:49:47 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:49:47 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Coil On Cap Ignition Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 18 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 98-12-05 14:14:19 EST, you write: << I read that new Chevys have a coil on cap ignition system. Has anybody put one of these on an older motor yet? >> I converted one to go on my 1974 Volvo B-20 4 cylinder Al From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 21:12:31 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11532 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 21:12:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11528; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 21:12:30 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DVT4LJGD; Sun, 06 Dec 1998 21:12:14 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:42:31 -0500 Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control Message-ID: <19981206.221134.4598.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <001f01be2138$573f3d40$10584893@default> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-3,5-12,17-19 From: cosmic.ray@juno.com (Raymond C Drouillard) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:49:06 -0500 "Curtis Mittong" writes: >I upgraded my 66 Bonny to HEI a few years back. It's non-comp controlled, >like from a 77 or so. Is the only difference between this and a comp >control the ignition module? Is the vacuum advance different, or is it >mechanical advance only? I need to know when I go to EFI. > >Thanks, >Curtis The computer controlled system has no vacuum or mechanical advance. Spark advance is handled by the computer. To hook it up to a computer, you will need a seven-pin module and the appropriate connecter. Also, you will need to remove and plug the hose from the vacuum advance, and figure out a way to tie down the mechanical advance. Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 22:34:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12426 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:34:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12422 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:34:02 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA18338 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:34:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:33:48 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E43@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:33:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I thought I'd post an exerpt from the Accelerated Motion web page - http://www.amotion.com/amcams.html#500 Hope it helps Rick Lobe Center Separation is as big a consideration as duration. This is what determines how much valve overlap (the amount of the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time) your engine will have and what your vacuum and idle quality will be. Street cams with wide lobe center separation (114) will have a good idle, high vacuum, and a nice wide RPM range. Separations closer to 108 (less separation means more valve overlap) will create problems for some computer engine controls due to their rougher idle and lower manifold vacuum. They have a shorter RPM range but produce much stronger mid-range power with some improvement to the top end. Now we get to valve lift. Many customers believe that the cam with the highest lift will perform much better than a moderate lift cam. While it is true that a high lift cam will provide better flow by getting the valve further out of the way, there are limits to this as well as other considerations. First, high lift on a short duration cam would be very hard on the valve train if it could keep the valve at the higher lift long enough to be effective. Second, high lift causes several problems in the valve train including valve to piston interference (especially with narrow lobe separations), valve spring retainer to valve guide/seal interference, rocker arm to stud interference, and valve spring coil bind. Adjustable rocker arms are often required to take up any clearance created when the valve is closed. All of this must be checked and corrected before a high lift cam can operate properly. Finally, if you are using a cam with enough duration to make a high lift effective, the usual limit for noticable improvement is reached when the lift equals 25% of the intake valve diameter. This means that if your intake valve diameter is only 1.84" you will get the best flow at only .460" lift. Lifts higher than 25% of the valve diameter will add more duration at the maximum flow point but excessive lifts will cause more problems than they are worth in an engine that is not fully race prepared. The bottom line on cam lift is that it is pointless to go overboard. All newer designs have adequate lift for the operating range of the cam. The minimal gains from an extra high lift cam are not worth the extra work in a street vehicle. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jemison Richard [SMTP:JemisonR@tce.com] > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 3:51 PM > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... > > Tom, > > Sorry for the confusion. We're on the same page. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Sharpe [SMTP:twsharpe@mtco.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 1998 1:48 PM > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... > > > > > > > > Jemison Richard wrote: > > > > > > > [Jemison Richard] Turbos actually do care I believe. Most > > turbo > > > cams are wide center line, mild duration, moderate to high lift cams. > > You > > > don't want to lose all that pressure out the exhaust pipe! Also, > > cylinder > > > filling is largely taken care of my the pressure developed by the > turbo. > > So > > > you don't need cylinder scavenging. You already have a large pressure > > > differential across the cylinder to remove combustion gases and > recharge > > the > > > cylinder. > > > > > > Also, grab your favorite cam grinders spec sheets or catalog > > and > > > compare hot street and turbo cams and check me out on this. > > > > > > Rick > > > > Two points, Removing the combustion gasses is a problem with Turbo > motors > > as the > > exhaust pressure can be higher than the intake. They take a standard, > mild > > cam > > and crutch the exhaust by openning it sooner; more time to blow down. > Net > > result > > is wider CL. > [Jemison Richard] Got a megacycle cams sheet in front of me for 750 > Honda (sorry this is the only one I have right now but for reference they > list a high perf street cam with I/E order Lift .400 / .375 dur@.04 > 262/257 Centerline 105.104.5 > their turbo cam for same bike > Lift .342 / .312 dur@.04 215/222 Centerline 106/106 > > This is fairly typical. That was my point. Less lift - I agree > earlier exhaust opening but not a whole lot - very conservative durations > and wider centerline (less overlap). > > > You're right though, boost is better than lotts of cam and RPM, but a > > turbo at > > high rpm will still need a big cam thou not as big as a na motor. > > > > My point was (originally), that we should tune the idle by driveability > > and > > 'dead recon' the idle mixture from there and forget all that learning > > stuff (at > > idle). Just use the O2 for a reference. That assumes that we can easily > > change > > the map and have a good trimmer for the map sensor. > > > > My 482 idled like a kitten with a Predator carb, alcohol, and roller > > cam..... it > > just dribbled raw fuel out of the headers at idle, not enough to clean > the > > floor, but almost. (another sick try at humor). > [Jemison Richard] Yea, the roller cam does wonders for idle > quality. I never had problems with the fuel literally running down the > pipes but the low end mixture was major goofy. > > > > later Tom > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Dec 6 23:24:52 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA13041 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:24:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13037 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:24:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA11895 for ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:24:50 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:24:49 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GM optispark In-Reply-To: <012f01be214c$b154ac20$21198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have the electromotive unit. It has a crank trigger with quite a few teeth (each 6 degrees I think), and generates the needed signals for the computer to be happy. It runs really good once it starts. The starting is not quite as quick as with the stock opti, but I really improved and changed the readings at idle (better igntion/burning). I probably should put something on my web page. I have got a request from the fourth-gen f-body list to write up my experience. Roger 93 Z28, !opti, 115k original waterpump. On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Curtis Mittong > To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:35 PM > Subject: GM optispark > > Electromotive sells a DIS (4 coils, not 8). Some one on the list did that some time ago, you'd have to hunt the archives, unless he's still active. > Cheers > Bruce > > > > Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone familiar with GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a pretty self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven unit and a nearby coil pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty regularly at 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. They are not rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one extremely expensive unit. What about avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was thinking a crank positioning sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1. Will the computer signals be compatible with my stuff? I want to keep the stock computer setup, just plug and go. > > Thanks, > Curtis > From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 00:39:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA13825 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:39:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA13821 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:39:12 -0500 Received: from ms01-41.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.41] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 0zmtO3-0002DG-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:39:11 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19981206214247.00c1cee0@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 21:43:05 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >The computer controlled system has no vacuum or mechanical advance. >Spark advance is handled by the computer. To hook it up to a computer, >you will need a seven-pin module and the appropriate connecter. Also, >you will need to remove and plug the hose from the vacuum advance, and >figure out a way to tie down the mechanical advance. So my HEI vaccum advance distr. can be used as a CC HEI by only changing the connector and the internal module? (assuming I successfully eliminate the mechanical and vaccuum advance?, so the 7 pin module fits in the pre CC HEI dizzy?) a great tidbit to know Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 01:03:47 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA14135 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:03:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.sun.ac.za (mail.sun.ac.za [146.232.128.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14130 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:03:37 -0500 Received: from sed.sun.ac.za ([146.232.144.12]) by mail.sun.ac.za with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu id 0zmtlX-0007Dd-00; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:03:27 +0200 Received: from SUN_SED/SpoolDir by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 7 Dec 98 08:05:10 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by SUN_SED (Mercury 1.32); 7 Dec 98 08:04:44 +0200 Received: from halmar.sed.sun.ac.za (146.232.146.112) by sed.sun.ac.za (Mercury 1.32); 7 Dec 98 08:04:38 +0200 Received: by halmar.sed.sun.ac.za with Microsoft Mail id <01BE21B8.3B5E7DE0@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za>; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:04:36 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE21B8.3B5E7DE0@halmar.sed.sun.ac.za> From: Carlo Putter To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: readings eps files Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:04:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE21B8.3B67A5A0" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE21B8.3B67A5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, A quick and dirty trick would be to import it into microsoft word. I can import eps files, but ou cannot view it, you have to print it!!!! Cheers Carlo -----Original Message----- From: WLundquist@aol.com [SMTP:WLundquist@aol.com] Sent: Friday, December 04, 1998 8:20 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: readings eps files Help anyone? I downloaded the eps files for the 332 pc board but am having trouble opening the file to view it. I thought I had a graphics program to support the file but all I get is asci II or something. Any help would be appreciated. Wayne ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE21B8.3B67A5A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiQGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAEAIAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVk dQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5v aGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAnZGl5X2VmaUBlZmkz MzIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOkRJWV9FRklARUZJMzMyLkVO Ry5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZp MzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAIB918BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QC AAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAADAP1fAQAAAAMA/18AAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAAul4 AQSAAQAXAAAAUkU6IHJlYWRpbmdzIGVwcyBmaWxlcwDZBwEFgAMADgAAAM4HDAAHAAgABAAjAAEA GAEBIIADAA4AAADOBwwABwAIAAMAHQABABEBAQmAAQAhAAAAREEwNDE5RTRBOThERDIxMUJFNDgw MDAwRTgyRTExMUEAFQcBA5AGAOgFAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAA AAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGBDDHenIb4BHgBwAAEAAAAXAAAAUkU6IHJlYWRpbmdzIGVw cyBmaWxlcwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb4hp3bZ5BkE242pEdK+SAAA6C4RGgAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAA U01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABjcHV0dGVyQHNlZC5zdW4uYWMuemEAAAADAAYQ/X63QgMABxDW AQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEksQVFVSUNLQU5ERElSVFlUUklDS1dPVUxEQkVUT0lNUE9SVElUSU5U T01JQ1JPU09GVFdPUkRJQ0FOSU1QT1JURVBTRklMRVMsQlVUT1VDQU5OT1RWSUVXSVQsWU9VSEFW RQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAMsCAADHAgAA+AMAAExaRnWEyM+QAwAKAHJjcGcxMjUWMgD4C2BuDhAwMzOd AfcgAqQD4wIAY2gKwOBzZXQwIAcTAoMAUKEQdnBycTIRdn0KgNkIyCA7CW8OMDUCgAqBbHVjAFAL A2MSEgvEIBhIaSwKogqAQSBxEnUN4GsgAHBkIGRiaQAgeSB0BRAYMXclCGBsGIBiZRjwbyB9B3Bw CREaEBpxAjAaAG1zDeADYHNvAYAZUQsgLjAgSSBjA5EaJWVwrQQgZgMQB5AsGbB1BUDTCGAcIm5v BUB2CJAH4NsakB1weR3REQB2GdMSwJsawRqBISBBF4RDaAngfxEgIIUKwAkAF4Qh+AswbPhpMzYB QBaQAUASwB5AhQWQdBIEMTYgLSSyek8FEGcLgAdABdAHkHP4YWdlJLMh9iPEI5ELE8EjxmktMTQ0 AUAjEDgxODABQAzQKFNiICpGA2E6DINiEWBXTIZ1GHAYAXN0QGEG8AIuBaBtIFtTTVTkUDoqf21d IfUpgAZghwIwKecpoGlkYXkdcBpEBZBlBtAEkCAwNAEdcDE5OTggODrJFyFQTS03VG8p5xigZHlf ARBpQDIhD2AyAi4J8Gcub2hpb9otKvBhI+AywGQMcC1HuHViaiPxKecJcGEYoP8PIAQgHOcmXydq IxQLtheTMEhlbHAYUR8AbmWGPxeEHBBkb3duCQD/NaAJgBjwIPAc2B0QBbE7knsykR+wYxmwOzAL IB2DYX8rgB9BNcEY8QhgAmAZ0G/+cAnwNcEXhDuSHSIZ4h515xvyO5AIYGdoBUAcEBEASRiAYSAJ wGFwMyBjHwQgI7FCYSuAGfFzdXDvGkM/9heEPcNsAyAcECXg6xpxBCBhBPBpHAAcEAWx3xtgB4A7 kDXBG/BBOgAfMP85shlnQoASwAWQBzAj4Bvg7ReEIEm/SnlXLtA6MBeEBROBAExwAAMAEBAAAAAA AwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzAgabJPpyG+AUAACDAgabJPpyG+AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAA AABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAA ADguMAADACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAA AAAeAEKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AABdUA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE21B8.3B67A5A0-- From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 01:25:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA14371 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:25:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA14365 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:25:21 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA00806 for mail_from ; Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:22:13 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:22:13 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Agree except as follows: >First, high lift on a short duration cam would be very hard on the valve >train if it could keep the valve at the higher lift long enough to be >effective. True enough for a stock valve train. With proper mods, not such a big deal. >Second, high lift causes several problems in the valve train including valve >to piston interference (especially with narrow lobe separations), valve >spring retainer to valve guide/seal interference, rocker arm to stud >interference, and valve spring coil bind. If you are not checking and dealing with this stuff, why did you bother building an engine at all??? Buy one off someone's shelf!! Adjustable rocker arms are often required to take up any clearance created when the valve is closed. All of >this must be checked and corrected before a high lift cam can operate >properly. Of course it must all be checked, and what is said is true for a grinder who just goes to a smaller base circle on the cam. But if you are doing it right, custom length push rods, and a base circle close to stock are better. >Finally, if you are using a cam with enough duration to make a high lift >effective, the usual limit for noticable improvement is reached when the >lift equals 25% of the intake valve diameter. The 25% of valve diameter is all that is needed for maximum flow axiom (straight out of David Vizard) is quite true for totally unshrouded valves and straight shot ports--such as with a DOHC hemi chamber. It is slightly less true for a pent-roof (typical four valve) chamber or a pushrod hemi chamber. It is well proven that it is BS for a typical wedge chamber and ports. Take a look at some flow numbers!! This means that if your intake valve diameter is only 1.84" you will get the best flow at only .460" lift. If you have a DOHC hemi chamber. Been there and done that with Jags, Alfas, and Porsches. > Lifts higher than 25% of the valve diameter will add more duration at the >maximum flow point but excessive lifts will cause more problems than they >are worth in an engine that is not fully race prepared. Then why don't they stop the valve at the optimum lift point, and leave it there longer, instead of just stretching out an existing valve lift curves duration, and increasing lift by doing so?? Too much work to develop a really unique profile for each grind??? Yep, I AM a cynic!! :-) >The bottom line on cam lift is that it is pointless to go overboard. Duh!! All newer designs have adequate lift for the operating range of the cam. Why do I have doubts about this one??? :-) The minimal gains from an extra high lift cam are not worth the extra work in a >street vehicle. I agree if what you are doing is bolting in a cam, manifold & headers, plus maybe heads. But if you are seriously BUILDING an engine, this stuff is exactly what you came to the party to do!! My point is that you should put your heads on a flow bench and flow test them with the valves at various lifts, and with something round and the size of your bores under the chamber (so as to duplicate shrouding conditions as well as possible). Let the flow bench TELL you what valve lift the flow (both intake and exhaust) maxes out at with YOUR heads, rather than listening to whatever the cam guy wants to tell you!! If you have the flow v. lift curves for your heads, any reputable cam grinder will INSIST on seeing them!! In fact a REALLY reputable grinder will INSIST that you get them if he is not already familiar with your particular heads! Picking a valve lift at the point where the flow starts to level out (rather than where it maxes out) usually makes the most sense for a street motor, because of durability considerations. If you are using proper quality valve gear for the level of engine you are building, valve spring life will be the determining factor every time. And multiple springs (double, or, even better, triple) will give you the BEST fatigue life every time for any given level of spring force. So will larger diameter springs. And so will longer than stock valves and springs with other factors remaining constant. And roller followers will give you better performance AND efficiency at ANY chosen RPM range every time, because they allow higher valve accelerations and velocities at a given level of cam life, and even make possible valve rates that are IMPOSSIBLE with flat tappets. Why put race engine quality work into a street engine?? Cuz it is fun to do, cuz it runs better, cuz it sounds better, cuz it lasts a lot longer if you do it right, and cuz it feels GOOD every time you drive it!! (But NOT because it is cheap!) Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 07:45:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA17989 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:45:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA17985 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:45:48 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-34.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.52]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id HAA10754 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:45:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005501be21e0$08390ca0$34198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GM optispark Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:49:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 11:41 PM Subject: Re: GM optispark In you mention of slower to start is this most likely due to having to spin over a full turn at times to synch things?. Or does it take several full crank revolutions to get things organized?. Quesses here are fine by me. Bruce > >I have the electromotive unit. > >It has a crank trigger with quite a few teeth (each 6 degrees I >think), and generates the needed signals for the computer to be happy. >It runs really good once it starts. The starting is not quite as >quick as with the stock opti, but I really improved and changed the >readings at idle (better igntion/burning). I probably should put >something on my web page. I have got a request from the fourth-gen >f-body list to write up my experience. > > > Roger > 93 Z28, !opti, 115k original waterpump. > >On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Curtis Mittong >> To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:35 PM >> Subject: GM optispark >> >> Electromotive sells a DIS (4 coils, not 8). Some one on the list did that some time ago, you'd have to hunt the archives, unless he's still active. >> Cheers >> Bruce >> >> >> >> Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone familiar with GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a pretty self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven unit and a nearby coil pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty regularly at 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. They are not rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one extremely expensive unit. What about avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was thinking a crank positioning sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1. Will the computer signals be compatible with my stuff? I want to keep the stock computer setup, just plug and go. >> >> Thanks, >> Curtis >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 08:48:03 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA18502 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:48:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.enter.net (root@mail.enter.net [204.170.70.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA18498 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:48:00 -0500 From: rbraun@mail.enter.net Received: from rbraun (atmax-2-47.enter.net [192.204.98.105]) by mail.enter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA14131; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:47:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199812071347.IAA14131@mail.enter.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:47:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Resend:Truck Rear Ends CC: nc-f-body@f-body.org Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19981206203131.5049.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a 9.5" version, with 8 lug wheels on a HD 3/4 ton 8600# GVW K2500 pick-up, now here's the thing, it had a posi, the kind with the centrifugal weight, which broke and was removed by the last owner, Can I just stick a spring in between the side gears and make a standard posi out of it? It already has the clutch packs on each side. Which spring will fit it? I figure this will work if I can find the correct spring. Respond to rbraun@enter.net not on the diy-efi list, thanks. > They have been using the 14-bolt GM corporate rear-axle since like > 1972 or so. It came in 3 versions that i know of... a 9.5" semi-float > (no hub protruding from center of wheel), a 10.5" full-float (11" > drums), and a 10.5" full-float (13" drums). They used the > full-floater in most 3/4 tons from 73 to 80. They then started using > the semi-floater in the lighter 3/4 tons. Now they use this > semi-float in anything from a light 3/4 ton to a 1-ton. You just have > to look at what you find. If its fro mthe 70s, its prolly the > full-floater. If 85+, you'll just have to look. There is also a > version of the 14-bolt semi-floater that has a new 1/2 ton, 6-lug bolt > pattern. If you have any questions, jsut ask. > > Andy Q Randy Braun rbraun@enter.net 30th Ann. T/A coming soon.... 91 GTA for sale 82 Firebird From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 09:03:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18701 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:03:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18697 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:03:39 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id JAA07351 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:03:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:03:28 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E4C@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Your tuning tips page Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:03:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan, I have a question regarding your tuning tips page. The TPS chart has very low readings and I'm not clear on why this is so or rather how you are using these values? Could you enlighten me? Thanks. Oh, here's the chart (in case you have more than one tuning article around): %Throttle Position Sensor for Wide Open Throttle (RPM vs % factor) 0 35 400 2 800 26 1200 25 1600 24 2000 23 2400 22 2800 21 3200 20 Rick From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 09:17:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18929 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:17:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18925 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:17:06 -0500 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id GAA29863 for <@deliverator.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:08:03 -0800 (PST) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu> id JAA08411; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:17:02 -0500 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id JAA24203 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:17:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9812070917.ZM24119@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:17:00 -0500 In-Reply-To: "Curtis Mittong" "GM optispark" (Dec 6, 12:13pm) References: <002d01be213b$af94bc60$10584893@default> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GM optispark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Dec 6, 12:13pm, Curtis Mittong wrote: > Subject: GM optispark > > Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone familiar > with GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a pretty > self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven unit and a > nearby coil pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty regularly at > 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. They are not > rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one extremely expensive unit. What > about avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was thinking a crank positioning > sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1. Will the > computer signals be compatible with my stuff? I want to keep the stock > computer setup, just plug and go. > >-- End of excerpt from Curtis Mittong Ah, but they ARE! If you care to look at an OptiSpark dissection at http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/optisprk/optisprk.htm you will see just how to take apart and clean these units. I've also read (haven't confirmed though) that there are replacement internal parts for OptiSparks available at many parts houses, like Napa. From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 09:17:54 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18944 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:17:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from home2.stratos.net (mail.tracside.com [209.117.220.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA18940 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:17:53 -0500 Received: from jim-yeagley [209.119.12.68] by home2.stratos.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A38FF110144; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:17:51 EDT Message-ID: <007d01be21e9$0cda9220$440c77d1@jim-yeagley> From: "Jim Yeagley" To: Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:54:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> Funny you should bring up Pontiacs. My plans are for EFI and an overdrive trans in my '75 Grandville. TBI will be my choice, as I'll have a friend machine me an adapter for the stock 4 bbl intake. I also had the question of the distributor, so this thread is of great interest... Jim Yeagley Member: www.indyram.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 09:51:39 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19544 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:51:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19540 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:51:36 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-66.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.66]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA12541 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:51:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981207094920.00938d90@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 09:51:33 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: RE: Your tuning tips page In-Reply-To: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E4C@tceis3.indy.tce.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 09:03 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >Bruce Plecan, > >I have a question regarding your tuning tips page. The TPS chart has very >low readings and I'm not clear on why this is so or rather how you are using >these values? Could you enlighten me? Thanks. > >Oh, here's the chart (in case you have more than one tuning article around): > >%Throttle Position Sensor for Wide Open Throttle (RPM vs % factor) > 0 35 > 400 2 > 800 26 >1200 25 >1600 24 >2000 23 >2400 22 >2800 21 >3200 20 Rick, I think it's a mis-statement... It's not %TPS Vs RPM for WOT (WOT is throttle physically open all the way) but it's %TPS Vs. RPM for PE (Power Enrichment). Later, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 09:52:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19568 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:52:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19564 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:52:27 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-133.nordson.com [207.206.59.133]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21237 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:52:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002d01be21f0$ab765840$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:48:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu When lift = 25% of valve diameter, the "curtain area" of the valve equals the throat area. Actual flow usually increases at higher lift but not much. A valve cannot be opened rapidly to this point and held for a while, then closed rapidly. The dynamics of a mass/spring system prevent this. A valve is first kicked open by the cam. Then the spring tries to stop it and reverse its direction, then the valve is caught by the closing ramp. The physics of this motion dictate the cam profile. More lift/duration requires stronger parts and or reduced life. Gary Derian > >Then why don't they stop the valve at the optimum lift point, and leave it >there longer, instead of just stretching out an existing valve lift curves >duration, and increasing lift by doing so?? Too much work to develop a >really unique profile for each grind??? Yep, I AM a cynic!! :-) > From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 10:02:20 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19820 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:02:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.lig.bellsouth.net (mail.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19816 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:02:19 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-66.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.66]) by mail.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA28883 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:02:18 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19981207095803.009390c0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:02:17 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: GM optispark In-Reply-To: <9812070917.ZM24119@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> References: <"Curtis Mittong" <002d01be213b$af94bc60$10584893@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 09:17 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Ah, but they ARE! If you care to look at an OptiSpark dissection at >http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/optisprk/optisprk.htm you will see just how >to take apart and clean these units. I've also read (haven't confirmed >though) that there are replacement internal parts for OptiSparks available >at many parts houses, like Napa. The 94/early 95's were of one design and the late 95's and up went to another design... GM no longer sells parts or complete units for the "older" ones, as it has superseded them with the new design. (Things are slightly different in the new design other than just the vent tubes). GM doesn't sell components for the new design, and the aftermarket doesn't either. My Father owns a garage and has tried for 3 different vehicles with bad optispark units to get pieces from NAPA and other parts houses, but no one is making them. My dad's cost on the thing is about $340.00... retail is $450+ from the dealer. Cleaning would be the only option, but if the sensor is bad, or the "cap" and/or rotor is carbon tracked, you're in for a replacement unit. Later, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 10:22:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20296 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:22:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20292 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:22:06 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:21:19 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: GM HEI computer control Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:21:16 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I would like to use the stock Q-Jet intake 1967-72 but I would think the top would need to be milled out like a torquer intake, and I don't have any one that can do that. The reason I suggested a 1980-81 301 distributor is that it a drop in. If a 77 HEI is modified The advance mech. will need to be locked at zero or locked advanced, I don't know which one it is. Good luck with your project . -----Original Message----- From: Jim Yeagley [SMTP:jimyeagley@stratos.net] Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 7:54 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control <> Funny you should bring up Pontiacs. My plans are for EFI and an overdrive trans in my '75 Grandville. TBI will be my choice, as I'll have a friend machine me an adapter for the stock 4 bbl intake. I also had the question of the distributor, so this thread is of great interest... Jim Yeagley Member: www.indyram.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 10:58:36 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA21041 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:58:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21037 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:58:35 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.20] (p20.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.20]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19048 for mail_from ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:58:31 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:58:31 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ><EFI is one from a 1980-81 301 engine. Look for the 4 wire connector , pull >the rotor off and as Bruce said there won't be any advance weights or vacuum >canister. I plan to EFI a 1973 350 Pontiac using a 2BBL intake modified for >TBI.>> > >Funny you should bring up Pontiacs. My plans are for EFI and an overdrive >trans in my '75 Grandville. TBI will be my choice, as I'll have a friend >machine me an adapter for the stock 4 bbl intake. I also had the question >of the distributor, so this thread is of great interest... > >Jim Yeagley >Member: www.indyram.org Yo--why not find a tri-power manifold, and do a 3x2 TBI ?? Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 11:07:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21245 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:07:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA21240 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:07:52 -0500 Message-ID: <19981207160346.21273.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send1e; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:03:46 PST Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:03:46 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Re: Resend:Truck Rear Ends To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I wouldn't want to try it. Those gov-locks were known for blowing up. One wheel will get spinning and then the thing locks and breaks all the little fingers off inside the diff. Maybe you should just get a new diff? A swap to a full-floater is practically a bolt-in on your truck. They're cheap in So. WI, too. Andy ---rbraun@mail.enter.net wrote: > > I have a 9.5" version, with 8 lug wheels on a HD 3/4 ton 8600# GVW > K2500 pick-up, now here's the thing, it had a posi, the kind with the > centrifugal weight, which broke and was removed by the last owner, > Can I just stick a spring in between the side gears and make a > standard posi out of it? It already has the clutch packs on each > side. Which spring will fit it? I figure this will work if I can > find the correct spring. > > Respond to rbraun@enter.net not on the diy-efi list, thanks. > > > > > They have been using the 14-bolt GM corporate rear-axle since like > > 1972 or so. It came in 3 versions that i know of... a 9.5" semi-float > > (no hub protruding from center of wheel), a 10.5" full-float (11" > > drums), and a 10.5" full-float (13" drums). They used the > > full-floater in most 3/4 tons from 73 to 80. They then started using > > the semi-floater in the lighter 3/4 tons. Now they use this > > semi-float in anything from a light 3/4 ton to a 1-ton. You just have > > to look at what you find. If its fro mthe 70s, its prolly the > > full-floater. If 85+, you'll just have to look. There is also a > > version of the 14-bolt semi-floater that has a new 1/2 ton, 6-lug bolt > > pattern. If you have any questions, jsut ask. > > > > Andy Q > Randy Braun rbraun@enter.net > 30th Ann. T/A coming soon.... > 91 GTA for sale > 82 Firebird > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 11:31:23 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21632 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:31:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tcemail.indy.tce.com (inet-gw.indy.tce.com [157.254.232.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21628 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:31:22 -0500 Received: from indyglobal.indy.tce.com ([157.254.93.122]) by tcemail.indy.tce.com (8.8.8/8.8.3) with ESMTP id LAA26732 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:31:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by indyglobal.indy.tce.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:31:11 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B226FF4E4D@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Your tuning tips page Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:31:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu David, Thanks. Makes a lot more sense! Rick > -----Original Message----- > From: David A. Cooley [SMTP:n5xmt@bellsouth.net] > Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 9:52 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: Your tuning tips page > > At 09:03 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Bruce Plecan, > > > >I have a question regarding your tuning tips page. The TPS chart has > very > >low readings and I'm not clear on why this is so or rather how you are > using > >these values? Could you enlighten me? Thanks. > > > >Oh, here's the chart (in case you have more than one tuning article > around): > > > >%Throttle Position Sensor for Wide Open Throttle (RPM vs % factor) > > 0 35 > > 400 2 > > 800 26 > >1200 25 > >1600 24 > >2000 23 > >2400 22 > >2800 21 > >3200 20 > > Rick, > I think it's a mis-statement... It's not %TPS Vs RPM for WOT (WOT is > throttle physically open all the way) but it's %TPS Vs. RPM for PE (Power > Enrichment). > Later, > Dave > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net > Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be > approximated. > =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 11:34:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21743 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:34:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ausxc01.us.dell.com (ausxc01.us.dell.com [143.166.233.140]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21739 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:34:29 -0500 From: Terry_Sare@dell.com Received: by ausxc01.us.dell.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:32:35 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: TI App Notes Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:32:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Here are some app notes for driving injector, antilock and knock sensing. http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/psheets/diagrams/appnotes/auto.htm ts From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 11:48:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA22040 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:48:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.95]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA22034 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:48:53 -0500 Received: from mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.216]) by mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id IAA15335; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:48:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from production@localhost) by mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id IAA00605; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:48:53 -0800 (PST) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQglVG88L36diH7gNQE09QGdr2btAIUFzLNK7Bxpz2cnEXTsfR4Nn0+XTQ= From: Dodge1979@webtv.net (Roger Anderson) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:48:52 -0600 (CST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: motorcycle efi tb... Message-ID: <5390-366C06F4-1351@mailtod-152.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Guys: Seems my modified throttle body for my zx-11 was lost/hocked during shipment. Anyone know of any companies that manufacture tbs? thanks, rog From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 12:05:07 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22740 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:05:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver ([208.30.20.232]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22736 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:05:04 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from satellite205cds (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAC00276 for ; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:05:02 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:05:02 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199812071705.MAC00276@webserver> Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981207120022.00804cb0@xephic.dynip.com> X-Sender: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:00:22 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howdy, >You did not say whether the truck is an automatic or manual tranny. The truck is a manual 4-speed, with granny gears and slightly bent shifting forks, which I have to fix. >Whatever else you do to the engine, the 383 (B) big blcok is the one to >use--but unfortunately the bell housing has a different bolt pattern. You This I'm anticipating. I shall be seeking out in a junkyard this coming weekend while on a trip to NC to find the appropriate tranny & bellhousing, and flywheel for the 383. The 383 I have has a flexplate currently. I did buy the engine after all for a mere $75 for a running, but greasy, engine. Tested it and it runs fine with no leaks. Good enough to use as a foundation for a rebuild. >will need a TF 727 housing for a B-RB motor (not a hard core to find in >bone-yards on a car) , as your existing truck tailshaft and tailshaft >housing will assemble into the other case. A bell housing for a manual This is good information. I was worried I'd have to have a custom driveshaft, or half shaft made, since the driveshaft on this truck is two pieces, with a center pivot of some sort in the middle, attached to the frame. I could have the first shaft shortened if the new tranny is longer. >413, 426 or 440 from a car. If you can find a 440 out of a motorhome or the >like, the block is way stouter than those in a car (for boost Yes, like you said, out of a motorhome. This would be ideal, and it was an option for this truck that year (at least the 440). I will see what I can find. >out for 8 bolt crank flanges, as opposed to six bolt ones. Flywheels/flex >plates for the eight bolt units are tough to find. Yes, however see my last message regarding a flexplate - maybe that will help you use the crank you mentioned in your other message. Worse case, I can buy this flexplate for 72 bucks, and have a custom flywheel made to match the bolt pattern on the crank for several hundred dollars, using the ring gear from something. >truck type crank!! Somebody will have a detail to prove me wrong, but All I can say at this point is "yikes". This truck is going to be utilized as a "serious" hauler, once I get the appropriate engine into it. This is why I sought out a used 3/4 ton truck rather than a 1/4 ton - 5th wheel hitch time! >Even the 383 B you have, with no boost, will put the 318 to shame in terms >of all-around truck/towing performance, no matter what you do to the 318!! After driving this around, I think any engine would put the 318 to shame performance wise. Though the compression is very good forgetting that it has 100k miles on it without a rebuild, blowing no smoke. The engine did what its supposed to do, and is known for - reliable and last. just that the truck has absolutely no pickup (no pun intended). >applications--at least the equal of a big block Ford. Would not say the >same for a 318, let alone if boosted. Thanks for your suggestions Greg - this is going to be a fun winter project. I'll find what I can in various boneyards, then get involved in the EFI thing. More than likely, I'll be doing the Haltech system, maybe even a GM truck EFI system from a GM truck. Ideally what I wanted is the tuned port injection on camaros, but I haven't figured out how to fangle the Accel aftermarket runners to the Chrysler 318 manifold, eventually to be the 383 intake manifold. Should be an interesting situation :) Frederic Breitwieser Fairfield County CT http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1989 500cid Twin-Turbo HMMV 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1973 460cid Lincoln Continental 1975 Dodge D200 3/4 Ton Club Cab 2000 Buick Twin-Turbo GTP (in progress) "Forced Induction as a Way of Life!" From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 12:05:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22735 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:05:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver ([208.30.20.232]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22729 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:05:01 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from satellite205cds (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAB00276 for ; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:04:54 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:04:54 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199812071704.MAB00276@webserver> Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19981207114901.00800820@xephic.dynip.com> X-Sender: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:49:01 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Mopar 8-bolt truck cranks (somewhat off-EFI-topic) In-Reply-To: <3664217c.863563@smtp.erols.com> References: <199811301000.FAA12834@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <199811301000.FAA12834@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I have one of those truck cranks. Sold to me by a guy who may >well have known better - I thought I just needed a Hemi flywheel. Actually, you can purchase a SFI-approved flexplate for this crank from Summit Racing Products. BMM-10231 62-up 8-bolt Chrysler Crank Flexplate $71.69 Good to 6k RPM if following the SFI rating specifications. Hope that helps. Frederic Breitwieser Fairfield County CT http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1989 500cid Twin-Turbo HMMV 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1973 460cid Lincoln Continental 1975 Dodge D200 3/4 Ton Club Cab 2000 Buick Twin-Turbo GTP (in progress) "Forced Induction as a Way of Life!" From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 12:56:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23986 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:56:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (root@mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23978 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:56:34 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.11] (p11.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.11]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA04566 for mail_from ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:56:24 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:56:24 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: ox sensor on sequential efi,high overlap cam.... Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >When lift = 25% of valve diameter, the "curtain area" of the valve equals >the throat area. Actual flow usually increases at higher lift but not much. >A valve cannot be opened rapidly to this point and held for a while, then >closed rapidly. The dynamics of a mass/spring system prevent this. A valve >is first kicked open by the cam. Then the spring tries to stop it and >reverse its direction, then the valve is caught by the closing ramp. The >physics of this motion dictate the cam profile. More lift/duration requires >stronger parts and or reduced life. AS I said, this is true ONLY when the valve is UNSHROUDED in its real world environment. Take a look at the max lift for drag (or NASCAR) race cams for hemi headed engines vs. those for wedge chambered engines. Because of valve SHROUDING, wedge chambered valves will see increases in flow at lifts beyond 25% of valve head diameter. This is a PROVEN fact, both on flow benches and in racing. This fact is just one of the many proven performance advantages of the hemi chamber!! AND -NO, the physics of the situation DO NOT prevent operating a valve in the manner I described, any more than they prevent the valve from residing in one position (on its seat in a closed position) for a finite length of time during each cycle. YES, this kind of a cam profile would require stiffer valve springs, and stronger, more expensive, lower friction valve gear to get the job done. And "ramps" at the top of the lift curve as well as at the bottom. Because higher valve acceleration rates are required to do it this way. And because the valve would have to be stopped smoothly at the top of its lift, just as it is at the bottom. But as long as the cam profile is designed so as to keep the derivative of JERK to a minimum, and the springs are properly damped, the physics will be fine. (The word "JERK" is not used as an editorial term here, it is the appropriate and correct technical term for the first derivative (rate of change) of acceleration! :-) What I am talking about above is the next derivative still--the rate of change of Jerk. Never have heard a formal techy term for it, but I suppose you could call it "smoothness". But the whole idea of what we do is to get more performance by spending more money on neater parts--and the kind of cam profile described is most certainly one way to do it!! Regards, Greg > >Gary Derian >> >>Then why don't they stop the valve at the optimum lift point, and leave it >>there longer, instead of just stretching out an existing valve lift curves >>duration, and increasing lift by doing so?? Too much work to develop a >>really unique profile for each grind??? Yep, I AM a cynic!! :-) >> From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 13:20:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24440 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:20:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send101.yahoomail.com (send101.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.87]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA24435 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:20:52 -0500 Message-ID: <19981207181937.25539.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send101.yahoomail.com; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 10:19:36 PST Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:19:36 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: 2 GM TBI units, one ECM To: diy efi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I searched the archives and I am left with some questions. On the corvette cross-fire injection, what ECM is used? How are the IAC(s) done? What is the big difference between a 8747 and 7747? I know the older big-block's came with 90 lb/hr injectors, so does the 8747 have larger inj. drivers? Thanks. Andy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 13:24:29 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24528 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:24:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dub-img-7.compuserve.com (dub-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.206.137]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24524 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:24:28 -0500 Received: (from root@localhost) by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.16) id NAA03003 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:23:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:23:35 -0500 From: Jefferson S Creech Subject: Re: EFI on a Dodge 318 To: "INTERNET:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Message-ID: <199812071323_MC2-62BE-C7DF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id NAA24525 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Message text written by INTERNET:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>will need a TF 727 housing for a B-RB motor (not a hard core to find in >>bone-yards on a car) , as your existing truck tailshaft and tailshaft >>housing will assemble into the other case. A bell housing for a manual >This is good information. I was worried I'd have to have a custom >driveshaft, or half shaft made, since the driveshaft on this truck is two >pieces, with a center pivot of some sort in the middle, attached to the >frame. I could have the first shaft shortened if the new tranny is longer.< Not too many years ago , I replaced the Tranny in my '82 D-150. I found out the hard way that the tail shaft on the 904 that I replaced the 727 that was behind the slant-6 had a shorter tailshaft . Simple , I thought , just find a 727 to fit a slant-6 . Found one in a car , bought it , installed it , and the tailshaft was still too short . By this time my original Tranny was long since gone . I finally found the correct one at a local rebuilder . Be sure to check all the lengths on any Trans you're thinking of buying . this ended up costing me over $800 for what would have been under $350 if I'd gone ahead and had the "expensive" rebuild done , instead of going the "cheap" way out with the boneyard solution . This of course was with a slant-6 , The 383 (or any B or RB) may only have one size (length) for the 727 between cars and trucks . I do know you will only find the 727 behind a big block . By the way , the 383 (B) and 426 (RB , both Wedge and Hemi ) have a 4.250" stock bore size , not 4.125 as previously reported . HTH Scott From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 13:30:00 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24642 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:30:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24638 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:29:59 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-35.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.104]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA12854 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:29:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005701be2210$1da31240$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:33:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 11:00 AM Subject: RE: GM HEI computer control The early Big Block Chevy TBI's used an adapter that went to Q-Jet Flange, Porably an aftermarket source, if ya hunt around. Bruce >I would like to use the stock Q-Jet intake 1967-72 but I would think the top >would need to be milled out like a torquer intake, and I don't have any one >that can do that. The reason I suggested a 1980-81 301 distributor is that >it a drop in. If a 77 HEI is modified The advance mech. will need to be >locked at zero or locked advanced, I don't know which one it is. Good luck >with your project . > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Yeagley [SMTP:jimyeagley@stratos.net] > Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 7:54 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: GM HEI computer control > > <Pontiac > EFI is one from a 1980-81 301 engine. Look for the 4 wire connector >, pull > the rotor off and as Bruce said there won't be any advance weights >or vacuum > canister. I plan to EFI a 1973 350 Pontiac using a 2BBL intake >modified for > TBI.>> > > Funny you should bring up Pontiacs. My plans are for EFI and an >overdrive > trans in my '75 Grandville. TBI will be my choice, as I'll have a >friend > machine me an adapter for the stock 4 bbl intake. I also had the >question > of the distributor, so this thread is of great interest... > > Jim Yeagley > Member: www.indyram.org > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 13:39:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24883 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:39:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24879 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:39:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA14432 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:39:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:39:53 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: GM optispark In-Reply-To: <005501be21e0$08390ca0$34198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am not sure if it is just taking 1-1.5 turns to sync things, or if it is taking more, Sometimes it starts immediately, and sometimes it takes maybe a second or so. How fast does the starter spin the emgine? that would give me a pretty good idea of how many spins we were talking about. I added my electromotive install notes (additional things to note if you are installing it), and comments link to my web page. My home page is at: http://www.hit.net/~rah It is at http://www.hit.net/~rah/noopti.html Roger On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Heflin > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 11:41 PM > Subject: Re: GM optispark > > In you mention of slower to start is this most likely due to having to spin > over a full turn at times to synch things?. Or does it take several full > crank revolutions to get things organized?. Quesses here are fine by me. > Bruce > > > > > >I have the electromotive unit. > > > >It has a crank trigger with quite a few teeth (each 6 degrees I > >think), and generates the needed signals for the computer to be happy. > >It runs really good once it starts. The starting is not quite as > >quick as with the stock opti, but I really improved and changed the > >readings at idle (better igntion/burning). I probably should put > >something on my web page. I have got a request from the fourth-gen > >f-body list to write up my experience. > > > > > > Roger > > 93 Z28, !opti, 115k original waterpump. > > > >On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Curtis Mittong > >> To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > >> Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 12:35 PM > >> Subject: GM optispark > >> > >> Electromotive sells a DIS (4 coils, not 8). Some one on the list did > that some time ago, you'd have to hunt the archives, unless he's still > active. > >> Cheers > >> Bruce > >> > >> > >> > >> Here's a mental project for anyone with extra time. To: anyone > familiar with GM optispark units. As you know the whole thing is a pretty > self-contained unit with a cap and rotor in a small, cam-driven unit and a > nearby coil pack. The problem is LT1 water pumps die pretty regularly at > 25-35k miles spewing dexcool all over the thing ruining it. They are not > rebuildable, they have to be replaced in one extremely expensive unit. What > about avoiding the time bomb altogether? I was thinking a crank positioning > sensor and one coil for each cylinder a la Northstar or LS1. Will the > computer signals be compatible with my stuff? I want to keep the stock > computer setup, just plug and go. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Curtis > >> > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Dec 7 14:20:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25573 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:20:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25569 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:20:24 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-35.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.104]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA28746 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:19:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010801be2217$28c146e0$68198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 2 GM TBI units, one ECM Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:24:06 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: andy quaas To: diy efi Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 2:10 PM Subject: 2 GM TBI units, one ECM >I searched the archives and I am left with some q