From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 02:25:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA31900 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:25:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA31894 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:25:48 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id RAA04864 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:23:34 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:23:34 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199902010723.RAA04864@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sounds Good But wouldn't this only work for OPEN LOOP mode?? Once you nail it of your car is cold and hasn't enable closed loop mode even if the ECU still generated BLM's at WOT or cruise when cold based on O2 sencor voltage it doesn't alter fueling to try to stay at 14.7:1 anyway. or am i wrong ???? >What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an >output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read >this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a chassis >dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >This would even help the normally aspirated guys. > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 02:29:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA31984 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:29:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA31979 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:28:58 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id RAA04875 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:26:45 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:26:45 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199902010726.RAA04875@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: Re: Adam vs Vapor Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu WHAT OTHER LIST... FEED ME. FEEEEEEEEEED ME At 06:21 PM 31/1/99 -0500, you wrote: >On another list it was mentioned some of the blokes in Oz may have >compared some IR Carb'd stuff to Plenum, EFI, using maybe even the >same size runners. Was curious if anyone around here was involved, >or know directly what the results were.... >Cheers >Bruce > > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 02:53:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA32485 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:53:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA32481 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 02:53:38 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id RAA04961 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:51:24 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:51:24 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199902010751.RAA04961@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu As far as I know the KALMAKER will work in nearly all DELCO ecu in Australia manufactured up intil about 1996 except the latest model cars the use the newer generation ECU and MAF instead of MAP. 1227277,1227808,16183082 and 16206305 and the 16176424 PCM are about all the p/n's I know that will run KALMAKER Apart from the first two the 277 and 808 that need a extra chip installed to enable the 8192 baud ALDL they are all basically the same UNIT inside if you remove the cover as the pinout is identical and memcal's can be swapped between them all except PCM to ECM. The USA equivivent to the 808 is i believe the 1227165 (165) But I have also plugged BIN's from USA that I found into my bench ECU and they worked fine so I assume the P4 ecu has various partnumbers throught the world and KALMAKER should work perfectly on the 165 at least. What ECU does the 88 IROC with 350TPI have on it. >>> >>>The boys at KALMAKER are very switched on. But they may have zero experience in the USA >>>stuff... >>> >>> >>>sorry, this is not possible. It is designed to work with a Holden Delco >>>ECM... Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 05:26:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA01410 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:26:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.alphalink.com.au (mail.alphalink.com.au [203.24.205.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA01403 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 05:26:37 -0500 Received: from default (ppp14-19-Melbourne.alphalink.com.au [202.161.98.205]) by mail.alphalink.com.au (8.9.2/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA06062 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:26:25 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199902011026.VAA06062@mail.alphalink.com.au> From: "paul" To: Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:09:58 +1100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the screen and sensor. Some of us race people are on tight budgets! PAUL ---------- > From: Ross Myers > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:27 PM > > > > >Hi all, > > Any idea how much the EGOR would cost? > > In another message someone mentioned building something for under > >$200 .Would this be a wide range sensor and viewed on an LCD screen? Could > >a PIC be used to read the info and send it to the screen? > >PAUL > > > Just to add my bit, I know Motec sells a wide band monitoring device for > over $1000, it also uses a 68332 Micro!!!, go here to view - > http://www.motec.com.au/lambda.htm > > Regards > > Ross Myers > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 06:10:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA01860 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:10:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA01850 for diy_efi; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:10:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:10:01 -0500 From: John S Gwynne Message-Id: <199902011110.GAA01850@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. To post: Send to "[list name]@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 06:25:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA02152 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:25:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02148 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:25:11 -0500 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24517 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:25:13 +1100 Received: from gou-ppp-080.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.80), claiming to be "tpgi.com.au" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda24476; Mon Feb 1 22:25:06 1999 Message-ID: <36B58F48.30ACE640@tpgi.com.au> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:26:00 +1100 From: Niki Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. References: <3.0.3.32.19990201015414.011a30b8@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I spoke to the lads from efi direct at the summer nats last month about kalmaker......well the bloke i spoke to reckons he or should i say they could make kalmaker run on the holden stuff only but coul change the base program to what ever they wanted....be it 1 or 2 bar boost or have exter I/O lines .......so if this is the case one would think that they could make it run on the USA stuff eh!! ....oh yeh ....you need lots of $$$$$$$ to get it running and then add extra every time you want to do another car.....if you just burn a eprom of the file then the car cuts out after a given time .....cute eh!!! (NO!) Justin Andrew Choset wrote: > I became very interested in this when I saw the website, so I proceeded to > e-mail the manufacturer, in order to find out if I could make use of the > product in my 88 IROC with 350TPI. Unfortunately, here's the reply I > received: > > >sorry, this is not possible. It is designed to work with a Holden Delco > ECM... > > >Cheers > > >Brad-- > >The Toy Shop Automotive Boutique > >EFI DIRECT Pty Ltd > >Technology ~ Excellence > >The Home of KalMaker Software > > Is this the case? I'd appreciate any insight into the matter. > > Thanks, > > Andrew Choset > > >> Most of the Aussies on the list will know about this company, but for the > >> other folks who don't they have some nice stuff. > >> > >> http://www.efidirect.com.au/kalmakermenu.htm > >> > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 06:35:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA02324 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:35:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02320 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:35:53 -0500 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27894 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:35:51 +1100 Received: from gou-ppp-080.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.80), claiming to be "tpgi.com.au" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda27875; Mon Feb 1 22:35:47 1999 Message-ID: <36B591CA.C438F0DF@tpgi.com.au> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:36:43 +1100 From: Niki Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Memcal's References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu yeh keep the address comming my way and i will dig out a hand full.... Justin ECMnut@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/29/99 5:30:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, > EFISYSTEMS@aol.com writes: > > > While we're on the memcal subject....I am in need of approx 30 blue > > memcal covers....(I had some meet an unfortunate death) Does anyone know > > where > > to buy these or does anyone have some to sell??????Thanks, > > Carl, don't say "buy", the wrong people get excited.. 8~) > gimme a snail mail address offline.. I have 2 or 3.. > Maybe others have some....? > MIke V From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 06:39:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA02454 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:39:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from buffy.tpgi.com.au (buffy.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02449 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:39:52 -0500 Received: (from smtpd@localhost) by buffy.tpgi.com.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA29027 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:40:00 +1100 Received: from gou-ppp-080.tpgi.com.au(203.29.140.80), claiming to be "tpgi.com.au" via SMTP by buffy.tpgi.com.au, id smtpda28974; Mon Feb 1 22:39:53 1999 Message-ID: <36B592C0.B9B0D008@tpgi.com.au> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:40:48 +1100 From: Niki Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff References: <199902011026.VAA06062@mail.alphalink.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu FUELTRONICS also sell them OZ! 0883632199.......cant think of URL .....getting late! Justin! paul wrote: > Hi all, > I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these > are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even > as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the > screen and sensor. > Some of us race people are on tight budgets! > PAUL > > ---------- > > From: Ross Myers > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > > Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 1:27 PM > > > > > > > > >Hi all, > > > Any idea how much the EGOR would cost? > > > In another message someone mentioned building something for > under > > >$200 .Would this be a wide range sensor and viewed on an LCD screen? > Could > > >a PIC be used to read the info and send it to the screen? > > >PAUL > > > > > > Just to add my bit, I know Motec sells a wide band monitoring device for > > over $1000, it also uses a 68332 Micro!!!, go here to view - > > http://www.motec.com.au/lambda.htm > > > > Regards > > > > Ross Myers > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 08:38:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:38:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03797 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:38:04 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id IAA01820 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:38:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005501be4de8$8aed1fe0$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:41:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Choset To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 2:11 AM Subject: Re: Tweak your Delco's boys!!!!. With some wiring changes, ie converting over to MAP. You would have an 808. The 165 has the "other chip". While more clumbersome, a good editiong program, and emulator get you there also. Cheers Bruce >I became very interested in this when I saw the website, so I proceeded to >e-mail the manufacturer, in order to find out if I could make use of the >product in my 88 IROC with 350TPI. Unfortunately, here's the reply I >received: > >>sorry, this is not possible. It is designed to work with a Holden Delco >ECM... > >>Cheers > >>Brad-- >>The Toy Shop Automotive Boutique >>EFI DIRECT Pty Ltd >>Technology ~ Excellence >>The Home of KalMaker Software > >Is this the case? I'd appreciate any insight into the matter. > >Thanks, > >Andrew Choset > > > > > >>> Most of the Aussies on the list will know about this company, but for the >>> other folks who don't they have some nice stuff. >>> >>> http://www.efidirect.com.au/kalmakermenu.htm >>> >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 08:45:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03924 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:45:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03920 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:45:08 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id IAA08733 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:45:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005a01be4de9$87464280$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:48:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is needed. Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. Bruce >Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an >idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd >buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture >this........................................................you are working >on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial >aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps it >was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are still >faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. Remapping >the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex >editing. > >What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an >output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read >this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a chassis >dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >This would even help the normally aspirated guys. > >Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows where >I can find one) then let me know, please. > > > >Thanks; >Walt. > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM >Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Raymond C Drouillard >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >> >>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >>Bruce >> >> >>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, >>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components for >>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when it's >>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >>> >>>Ray Drouillard >>> >>> >>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >>>writes: >>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >>>>would >>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a >>>>wide O2 meter. >>>> >>>>Steve >>>> >>>>Mike Pitts wrote: >>>> >>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >>>>> >>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >>>>accomplished >>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >>>>> >>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >>>>> >>>>> -Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>___________________________________________________________________ >>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >>> >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 09:19:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04625 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:19:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailb.telia.com (mailb.telia.com [194.22.194.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04621 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:19:32 -0500 Received: from d1o86.telia.com (root@d1o86.telia.com [62.20.182.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03851 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:19:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from aa (t2o86p71.telia.com [62.20.182.191]) by d1o86.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA05307 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:19:24 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <199902011419.PAA05307@d1o86.telia.com> From: "Gustaf Ulander" To: Subject: SV: fuel pumps/reservoirs Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:13:48 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all! Long time no post... ---------- > Från: Mike Pilkenton > > Well I'm deep into my engine conversion project and need to install an > electric fuel pump for the EFI engine (3.1L V6). Question is do I have to > put the fuel pump back in the tank or can I install the pump up by the > engine. I know I need the high pressure type made for FI engines and not > the carb (low pressure). Mounting anaftermarket in-line pump up by the > engine sure would be more convenient. Any advice would be appreciated. > I had a similar problem when converting my Capri ( http://www.look.at/Ford_Capri , BlackMagicCapri ) to Bosch K-jetronic. Did as some described here, a small reservoir (0,7 liters) in the engine compartment, fed by the standard mech. fuel pump. Low pressure (LP) in near the bottom, outlet to the high pressure (HP) pump at the bottom. Return line from K-jet at near the top, LP return to the gas tank at the top. Seemed to work Ok except for a hesitation accelerating out of lefthanders at the track. Probably because the mech fuel pump couldn't keep up. Since I am about to redesign the reservoir to this season, I'd be interested in any input on the design. Regards Gustaf Ulander, Sweden From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 09:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA05011 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:37:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cannon.ecf.utoronto.ca (root@cannon.ecf.utoronto.ca [128.100.8.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA05007 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:37:27 -0500 Received: from localhost by cannon.ecf.utoronto.ca with SMTP id <2680>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:37:14 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:37:11 -0500 From: Wen Yen Chan X-Sender: chanwe@skule.ecf To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) In-Reply-To: <005a01be4de9$87464280$74198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello, Checkout the Field SFC-VTEC controller. In addition to allowing you to change the VTEC cut-over point it allows some adjustments (the transfer function can be a non linear function of engine speed and map) to be made to the fuel curves. On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Sherwin > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM > Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > > This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is > needed. > Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. > There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. > Bruce > > > >Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an > >idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd > >buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture > >this........................................................you are working > >on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial > >aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps > it > >was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are still > >faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. Remapping > >the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex > >editing. > > > >What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an > >appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an > >output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP > >computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 > >A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, > >then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read > >this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a > chassis > >dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. > >This would even help the normally aspirated guys. > > > >Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows > where > >I can find one) then let me know, please. > > > > > > > >Thanks; > >Walt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bruce Plecan > >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM > >Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > > > > > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Raymond C Drouillard > >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM > >>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff > >> > >>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. > >>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. > >>Bruce > >> > >> > >>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design > >>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The > >>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, > >>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components for > >>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when it's > >>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. > >>> > >>>Ray Drouillard > >>> > >>> > >>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski > >>>writes: > >>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many > >>>>would > >>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a > >>>>wide O2 meter. > >>>> > >>>>Steve > >>>> > >>>>Mike Pitts wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? > >>>>> > >>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier > >>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit > >>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional > >>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable > >>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to > >>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually > >>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier > >>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is > >>>>accomplished > >>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these > >>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " > >>>>> > >>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ > >>>>> > >>>>> -Mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>___________________________________________________________________ > >>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > >>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > >>> > >> > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 10:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05731 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:20:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05727 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:20:36 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.7] (p7.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.7]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA03326 for mail_from ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:20:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:20:34 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >FUELTRONICS also sell them > Gotta URL for FUELTRONICS??? Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 10:25:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05811 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:25:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.cas.honeywell.com [129.239.10.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05807 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:25:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199902011525.KAA05807@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:25:37 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Anyone trigger a electronic IG module with points? Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:19:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Anyone trigger a electronic IG module with points? > You might want to try a company called "Pertronix". I did a search on the net and found one site at: http://www.justbmws.com/pertronix.html We have used these point conversion electronic ignitions in our sandrails with great success. We run a lot of different engines and they seem to make one for everything. The best part is that just in case it does screw up, you can still put the points back in and drive home! Good luck....Tim. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 10:48:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06403 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:48:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06399 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:48:29 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA26753 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:48:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00f101be4dfa$c3113480$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:51:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:33 AM Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Might try www.fueltronics.com.au Least that's what Doc says Bruce >>FUELTRONICS also sell them >> >Gotta URL for FUELTRONICS??? > >Greg > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 10:56:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06602 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:56:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ci.west-valley.ut.us (icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us [204.246.130.98]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA06598 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:56:26 -0500 Received: from WVCDomain-Message_Server by ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:59:36 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 08:59:14 -0700 From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Different Strokes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id KAA06599 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James thanks. Max RPM = 7000, but only in a serious race. The car is mostly for fun and as a hotrod to build and admire. Most of the driving will be on warm summer afternoons. >>> James Ballenger 01/29 5:51 PM >>> David Sagers wrote: > The builder said that a short stroke engine will respond better to a turbo as it'll rev faster. So I'm looking for someone with knowledge and experience with turbo engines. Do I go with the shorter stoke that'll rev faster, or go with the 4" stroke that makes a lot of torque, especially in the low RPM ranges. Low RPM torque seems to be important as this is going to be a street engine generally run in the lower RPM ranges. I've thought about a twin turbo Poncho 400 ;^) How high do you need to rev to get full boost? The smaller stroke responding better would make sense. With enough boost, you could get plenty of torque and good hp. How high are you going to rev this engine? James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 11:04:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06818 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:04:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.az.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.az.home.com [24.1.240.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06813 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:04:17 -0500 Received: from beast ([24.1.193.136]) by mail.rdc1.az.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990201160415.GRIU6286.mail.rdc1.az.home.com@beast> for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:04:15 -0800 From: "Barry E. King" To: Subject: RE: More UEGO stuff Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:04:31 -0700 Message-ID: <000401be4dfc$8dd9a160$0500a8c0@beast.kingdom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Their new addy is http://www.fueltronics.com.au/. Regards, Barry > -----Original Message----- > >FUELTRONICS also sell them > > > Gotta URL for FUELTRONICS??? > > Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 11:19:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07212 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:19:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07208 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:19:34 -0500 Received: from 77.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.77) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:35:41 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams), Frederic Breitwieser , tony.cooper@virgin.net Subject: Wide Range EGO Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:18:59 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <36b8d001.1501889@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ray, others - if the parts are about 20 bucks cept the UEGO and a board first off - small quantity -is about 50 bucks - I'll take up a collection and write you a check for several as soon as you are ready. Don't forget to include in the price pizza and a bucket of beer. Hell, all most of want is to: A: Understand the technology - we think its neat (dating myself) B: Use the technology for our thangs C: Acquire it without domestic budget consent Please don't misunderstand if some of us are very curious. Saying its doable affects some of us like showing up with a truck load of girl scout cookies at a dirty old man in raincoats convention. We NEED need need need want want want pant pant oh oh oh - who's yor daddeeeeeee!!!!! one. A quick consensus says 0 - 5 volts output - fine for meters etc O to 1 with Stoic about .5 makes it almost a drop in. And the adjustable crossing point - pleeeeze. And hopefully electronically setable so a stamp can control it. Most of us just want one, and if it turns into a viable commercial opportunity for you, more power, just as long as C above applies. Thanking you in advance for your none look up the patent - it will only be available to those willing to Monica the developer attitude and approach. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 11:45:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07766 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:45:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from jsgpc.mrcday.com (root@jsgpc.mrcday.com [206.107.67.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07760 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:45:16 -0500 Received: from jsgpc.mrcday.com (jsg@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jsgpc.mrcday.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA26145 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:45:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199902011645.LAA26145@jsgpc.mrcday.com> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: jsg@donet.com Subject: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:45:13 -0500 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm becoming more and more interested in understanding the code (not just tables) of my 165. I would like to see a forum were we could more openly share such information. (is that possible?). I would like your comments on setting up a third mailing list that focuses on the project 101 material. This list would complement diy_efi and efi332 and serve to separate project 101 material into its own archive. I would also like a volunteer to actively maintain a web page for it (at the efi332 site). Possible name: proj101@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu john gwynne From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 12:01:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08410 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from crash.netspeak.com (email.webphone.com [208.143.140.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08406 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:32 -0500 Received: by crash with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:32 -0500 Message-ID: From: Mike Pitts To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Different Strokes Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:01:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>How high do you need to rev to get full boost? This is a *common* misconception about turbocharged engines. Boost is not RPM dependent, as it is with superchargers. Boost is mostly a function of engine load. IE: You can be driving down the highway at 3000 RPM (for instance) with zero boost or even vacuum. But pulling a heavy trailer up a steep hill at the same, or even lower RPM, can yield full boost. -Mike From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 12:20:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09003 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:20:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08998 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:20:56 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id MAA14070 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:20:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <011801be4e07$ac46a0c0$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:23:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: jsg@donet.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:54 AM Subject: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 I'd be all for it, with one big note, that it includes the basics, ie there is some talent to be called upon, who have the time, to read the code, but don't have the oportunity to go back to school to learn how. I for one have been trying to figure it out, but that darn CSH keeps falling over my eyes. Also, I'd only agree to the 165 as a starting point. The 730 is really nice, to work with. If the intent is just to do one ecm, then I'd say picking one that is as versatile as possible, something like a 8625. Cheers Bruce Doc, and Grumpy are already booting up their laptops > >I'm becoming more and more interested in understanding the >code (not just tables) of my 165. I would like to see >a forum were we could more openly share such information. >(is that possible?). > >I would like your comments on setting up a third >mailing list that focuses on the project 101 material. >This list would complement diy_efi and efi332 and serve >to separate project 101 material into its own archive. >I would also like a volunteer to actively maintain a web >page for it (at the efi332 site). > >Possible name: proj101@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >john gwynne > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 12:43:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09933 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:43:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.cas.honeywell.com [129.239.10.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09929 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:43:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199902011743.MAA09929@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:43:43 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:39:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Intake Runner Length > > > > What for ecm?. > We ended up conjuring our own. (Mainly by swiping circuits out of every known ecm in the free world). We wanted a box with knobs on it that controls the basic fuel curve. It's not a good idea to take a lap top out into the sand dunes to change the fuel curve. > We want to try > >different intake manifold combinations. > > > For plenum, start at engine displacement, and going as high as 2x > displacement wouldn't be a worry, as long as it worked. > When I can I build the plenum, so I can add layers of spacers. > I'd also, do that for runner lengths if I were you. > Now, the runner diameters is a real nasty issue, ie lots of possibles. > Stock Car Racing Mag several years ago had an article about them > as I recall. > With a VW head aren't you rather limited in port diameter?. > Bruce > Actually not, the after-market heads can get quite large. I have actually seen some valves that looked as big a Coke can. I made a trip to our local pick-n-pull junk yard here in Phx, and I haven't done the numbers yet, but the average runner length is about 17 inches, and the plenums are about the same as engine displacement. Here is where it gets interesting: The average daily driver car has round runners about 1 1/4 or so in dia. The go-fast cars (Ford Mustang 5.0, Honda V-tek, etc.) usually have square or rectangle runners. And the drag racers say the "trick" runner shape should be like the letter "D". I didn't expect so many variations! Thanks for all the inputs.....Tim. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 12:44:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09985 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:44:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oscva.orbital.com (orbital.com [199.36.24.99]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09981 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:44:57 -0500 Received: from smtphq.orbital.com (smtphq.orbital.com [199.36.16.253]) by oscva.orbital.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11194 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:44:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by smtphq.orbital.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 8525670B.0060D521 ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:37:40 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ORBVA From: Teller.John@orbital.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <8525670B.0060D4EE.00@smtphq.orbital.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:40:38 -0500 Subject: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm in the process of rebuilding the carbon-fouled head on my Buick 2.5L 4, and have taken apart the Throttle body for a thorough dunking in the can of parts cleaner. Of course, the regulator can't go in there because of the rubber bits, but all the GM manuals explicitly state that it must not be taken apart, even though it is attached to a very dirty bracket that ought to go in the bath with the rest of the TB. Is there something highly calibrated in there that would be destroyed if the regulator were disassembled, or is the warning there because the thing needs to be taken apart in a press and the spring pressure let out slowly? --- John T. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 12:58:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA10331 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:58:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA10326 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:58:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA14760 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:58:40 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:58:39 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 In-Reply-To: <199902011645.LAA26145@jsgpc.mrcday.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 jsg@donet.com wrote: > > I'm becoming more and more interested in understanding the > code (not just tables) of my 165. I would like to see > a forum were we could more openly share such information. > (is that possible?). > > I would like your comments on setting up a third > mailing list that focuses on the project 101 material. > This list would complement diy_efi and efi332 and serve > to separate project 101 material into its own archive. > I would also like a volunteer to actively maintain a web > page for it (at the efi332 site). > > Possible name: proj101@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > john gwynne > I would probably try to add a generic understand and reversing manufacturers ECM code list. Alot of the code is very similar between all of the different ECM's. The code is different, but the functions are very very similar. Maybe call the list gmecm? or something similar? Roger From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 13:12:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10759 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:12:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10755 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:12:10 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA11409 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:12:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <015a01be4e0e$d46eea60$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:15:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Teller.John@orbital.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator I've taken them apart just using my hands to hold the spring collasped. But, I do have a firm gripe (with my hands, now reality is another matter) Bruce >Is there something highly calibrated in there that would be destroyed if >the regulator were disassembled, or is the warning there because the thing >needs to be taken apart in a press and the spring pressure let out slowly? > >--- John T. > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 13:23:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11068 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp.thegrid.net (smtp.thegrid.net [209.162.1.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11064 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:47 -0500 Received: (qmail 12544 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 18:23:46 -0000 Received: from pop.thegrid.net (209.162.1.5) by smtp.thegrid.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 18:23:46 -0000 Received: from al (oak-ts1-h2-49-31.ispmodems.net [209.162.49.31]) by pop.thegrid.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA01446; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 10:23:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990201103321.0096b780@mail.thegrid.net> X-Sender: i857176@mail.thegrid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:34:59 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, twsharpe@mtco.com From: Al Lipper Subject: Re: ECU6 EFI system construction In-Reply-To: <36A56B55.586443B9@mtco.com> References: <01be4419$22f7f820$567690d1@mpilkent.vt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom, I'm almost ready to post the schematics for ECU7 - the latest revision. I'll let everyone know when they're up. In the meantime, check http://members.aol.com/ALIPPER/ for updates. Al From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 13:29:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11243 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:29:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11239 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:29:11 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA01007 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:29:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <016f01be4e11$355499e0$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:32:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length >> What for ecm?. > We ended up conjuring our own. (Mainly by swiping circuits out of >every known ecm in the free world). We wanted a box with knobs on it that >controls the basic fuel curve. It's not a good idea to take a lap top out >into the sand dunes to change the fuel curve. Care to give any details about the ecm?. and the plenums are about the same as engine displacement. Here is >where it gets interesting: The average daily driver car has round runners >about 1 1/4 or so in dia. The go-fast cars (Ford Mustang 5.0, Honda V-tek, >etc.) usually have square or rectangle runners. And the drag racers say the >"trick" runner shape should be like the letter "D". I didn't expect so many >variations! The round vs rect, is really common American compared to Euro, over the years this may be mellowing some. The D port is from what "chev" has done with the exhaust port, probably some else did it first, it's just they are so common...... Bruce > Thanks for all the inputs.....Tim. > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 13:37:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11525 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:37:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (216-064-096-005.inaddr.vitts.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11521 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:37:40 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:40:43 -0500 Received: from [205.247.203.141] by grolen.com id 6c970.wrk; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:36:46 EDT Message-ID: <36B5F34D.C5C00B23@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:32:45 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator References: <8525670B.0060D4EE.00@smtphq.orbital.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There's a diaphragm and a spring inside. Be prepared for it, and all will be fine. A press is probably overkill. Consider a lawyer working for GM. "Take it apart? What if it starts leaking fuel? That could be dangerous!" At least that was the impression one of the GM instructors left me with. Shannen Teller.John@orbital.com wrote: > > I'm in the process of rebuilding the carbon-fouled head on my Buick 2.5L 4, > and have taken apart the Throttle body for a thorough dunking in the can of > parts cleaner. Of course, the regulator can't go in there because of the > rubber bits, but all the GM manuals explicitly state that it must not be > taken apart, even though it is attached to a very dirty bracket that ought > to go in the bath with the rest of the TB. > > Is there something highly calibrated in there that would be destroyed if > the regulator were disassembled, or is the warning there because the thing > needs to be taken apart in a press and the spring pressure let out slowly? > > --- John T. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 13:39:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11562 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:39:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ci.west-valley.ut.us (icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us [204.246.130.98]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11557 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:39:22 -0500 Received: from WVCDomain-Message_Server by ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:42:33 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 11:41:45 -0700 From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Different Strokes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id NAA11559 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks all for the info, there are a lot of very bright people on this list, and I appreciate your help. I'm calling the engine builder this afternoon and will build a 4" stroke SBC using a Rodeck alum block made for the 4' stroke. In order to make this combination live for a long time I'll be using a 4340 non twisted crankshaft, 6" Carrillo rods and pistons from JE or Wiseco. I'm also going to take the advice to have the pistons coated, both the crowns and the skirts, and I'm going to send the heads and exhaust manifolds in for the heat barrier coatings. I also agree with ECMnut@aol.com when he said "I think your biggest headache will be traction." (and yes, you are welcome to come over for a test ride!!) Thanks again everyone! >Carl Summers wrote: > It has been my experience that it does take less time for the >engine to accelerate with a shorter stroke,,,but like you said the >larger cu in will give more streetable torque and that would >probably be the trade off I would take if I already had the parts >as you do.....The biggest downfall of the 4" arm is the fact that >you have very little(if any...was this 350 mains or 400?) journal >overlap and if you are planning to make alot of hp(1000+) and/or >rpm,,expect this crank to crack probably after 30 1/4 mile >blasts.....just some experience....hth's >-Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 13:54:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12000 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:54:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [205.247.203.87] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11996 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:54:10 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:57:13 -0500 Received: from [205.247.203.141] by grolen.com id 6ea80.wrk; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:53:16 EDT Message-ID: <36B5F72B.7569CFC1@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:49:15 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Love This References: <36B2EF2B.2A67@worldnet.att.net> <36B5218C.820D38B4@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the driver > board be mase to work?? > > TIA TOM That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I can hear the relay clicking away.. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 13:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA12026 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:54:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from emersonele-bh.emrsn.com (emersonele-bh.emrsn.com [207.140.48.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA12022 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:54:28 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by emersonele-bh.emrsn.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) id MAA07587 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:54:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from svnsfp03.automaticswitch.com(10.3.0.4) by emersonele-bh.emrsn.com via smap (4.1) id xma006840; Mon, 1 Feb 99 12:53:27 -0600 Received: by svnsfp03.dmnspf01 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE4DE9.AD12ED10@svnsfp03.dmnspf01>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:49:23 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Guenther,Max" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: delco_edit Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:49:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Where is delco edit. I looked in 332 incoming but can't find it. Found gnuplot.exe. though. Could someone e-mail it to me if its not there anymore. And if I'm blind please let me know! It appears to me that # of cylinders does not determine the ECM.? In other words I might find a Grand Am with the same ECM as the Corvette? 1227727 I believe. Just change the chip and away? Thanks, Max From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 14:08:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12491 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:08:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12487 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:08:03 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id NAA21647; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:08:43 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma021601; Mon, 1 Feb 99 13:07:47 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA06307; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:07:06 -0600 Message-ID: <36B5FAFF.AF3DD13E@arm.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:05:35 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bruce Plecan , diy_efi Subject: Re: Latest Shareware of Drag Strip Plus References: <005101be4d77$89bc0440$06633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Bruce... The latest version of drag strip plus is in the incoming directory at ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, race406s.zip --steve Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Ya wanna post this in place of the old one?. > Thanks > Bruce > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: race406s.zip > race406s.zip Type: Zip Compressed Data (application/x-zip-compressed) > Encoding: base64 From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 14:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12512 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:08:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [205.247.203.87] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12508 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:08:50 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:11:53 -0500 Received: from [205.247.203.141] by grolen.com id 70fb2.wrk; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:07:56 EDT Message-ID: <36B5FA9A.6F6616CB@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 14:03:54 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fusible link questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James Weiler wrote: > > gents, > > Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather > than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that I'm > missing? Fusible links are designed to take a brief overloads without failing. They're great for things like fan motors, which have high initial current draw. According to a service bulletin, fuses can blow because of expansion/contraction of the element due to quick high loads. I'm not making this up, they called it thermal fatigue. And fuses need a fuse holder and extra wiring. (Co$t) > > Secondly, how do you convert fusible link guage to Amps? i.e. 20 GA > fusible link will blow at what amperage? I don't know that, but a fusible link should be 2 AWG sizes smaller than the wire it's attached to. 10 ga wire should have 14 ga fusible link. Length should be kept to a minimum. Shannen > > thanks to all in advance > jw From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 14:15:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12629 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:15:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA12625 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:15:03 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id NAA21787; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:15:43 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma021773; Mon, 1 Feb 99 13:14:58 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA06472; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:14:17 -0600 Message-ID: <36B5FCAE.C772F96B@arm.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:12:46 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fusible link questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James Weiler wrote: > > gents, > > Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather > than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that I'm > missing? Just from the couple cars I own, I see fusible links used between the battery and the fuse box, but not after the fuse box, and not directly to anything else. Why they use them instead of inline fuses, I'm not sure. > > Secondly, how do you convert fusible link guage to Amps? i.e. 20 GA > fusible link will blow at what amperage? > > thanks to all in advance > jw --steve From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 14:23:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12878 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:23:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12873 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:23:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA03489 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:50 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:23:50 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Love This In-Reply-To: <36B5F72B.7569CFC1@grolen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > Tom Sharpe wrote: > > > > > > > How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the driver > > board be mase to work?? > > > > TIA TOM > That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I > can hear the relay clicking away.. > Shannen My guess would be that you would need at least two stages, first a small transistor to provide enougn current to drive the actual power transistor. I don't know what you would need for a power transistor. I think the 2N3055 maxs out a 15 amps in a TO-3 case with a heat sink, so you might need to look for something slightly bigger, and you would probably have to watch the PWM on/off cycle to make sure the on/off steps are not too fast for the power transistor. Roger From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 14:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12980 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:28:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12976 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:28:02 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA08014 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:28:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01b101be4e19$6d722a60$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: delco_edit Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:31:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Guenther,Max To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 2:04 PM Subject: delco_edit Name changed to Promedit, bottom half of page FTP Bruce > Where is delco edit. I looked in 332 incoming but can't find it. >Found gnuplot.exe. though. Could someone e-mail it to me if its not >there anymore. And if I'm blind please let me know! > > >It appears to me that # of cylinders does not determine the ECM.? In >other words I might find a Grand Am with the same ECM as the Corvette? >1227727 I believe. Just change the chip and away? >Thanks, >Max > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 14:32:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA13110 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:32:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA13106 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:32:03 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id NAA22292; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:32:43 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma022284; Mon, 1 Feb 99 13:32:11 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA06799; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:31:30 -0600 Message-ID: <36B600B6.71AA06A3@arm.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 13:29:58 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 References: <199902011645.LAA26145@jsgpc.mrcday.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I think it's an excellent idea. I agree with both Bruce's and Roger's comments also, if it covered a half dozen GM ecms or so that'd be great. Since I'm already on the diy_efi and efi_332 pages I can do the 101 page also. --steve jsg@donet.com wrote: > > I'm becoming more and more interested in understanding the > code (not just tables) of my 165. I would like to see > a forum were we could more openly share such information. > (is that possible?). > > I would like your comments on setting up a third > mailing list that focuses on the project 101 material. > This list would complement diy_efi and efi332 and serve > to separate project 101 material into its own archive. > I would also like a volunteer to actively maintain a web > page for it (at the efi332 site). > > Possible name: proj101@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > john gwynne From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 15:13:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14222 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:13:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icst.icst.com (icst.icst.com [12.3.42.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14218 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:13:18 -0500 From: rauscher@icst.com Received: from icsvfnt.icst.com (icsvfnt.icst.com [199.183.101.2]) by icst.icst.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA13962 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:00:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by icsvfnt.icst.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA917900164; Mon, 01 Feb 99 15:16:08 -0500 Message-Id: <9902019179.AA917900164@icsvfnt.icst.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Mon, 01 Feb 99 15:09:22 -0500 To: Subject: PWM driver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I can throw together a circuit to do this. I've used PWM for DC motor control circuits before. How about a low side driver, it would be easier to do. (This is a switch that grounds the motor). For input control, just an analog 0-12V for stopped to full on, with all speeds in-between. I'll get it together and scanned hopefully before the week is out. Oh, do fuel pumps really draw 15 Amps? Ouch. One word of caution thou, PWM is electrically noisy. You will want to put the controller close to the pump, as not to disrupt every electrical device in your car. BobR. Tom Sharpe wrote: >How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the driver >board be mase to work?? > >TIA TOM > ------------------------------ From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 15:14:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14301 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:14:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14293 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:14:47 -0500 Received: from grover (grover [131.204.46.41]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA29604 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:14:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:14:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" X-Sender: gparmer@grover To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Thoughts on a new list... proj101 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I would probably try to add a generic understand and reversing > manufacturers ECM code list. Alot of the code is very similar > between all of the different ECM's. The code is different, but the > functions are very very similar. Maybe call the list gmecm? or > something similar? I like this "gmecm" idea too. Much of the prog101 work has already been done for certain ECMs. For those of us who like the idea of a single piece of software to edit several different ECMs, an ".ecu" file (for promedit) for each known prom shouldn't be all that difficult. Known ECMs I've seen detailed info about recently: 1) '7148 from a Turbo Regal/GN -- http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/chips/gmprom.html 2) '7749 from Syclone/Typhoon -- www.syty.org (also http://gunther.infohwy.com/~rgregory/proms.html) 3) '7747 from '90 P/U efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/oem/gm 4) 16159278 from '93 Z28 http://www.hit.net/~rah/disassnotes.html I'd bet that the '165 from a TPI F-Body and several of the 'vette models have been hacked too, but I can't come up with the URLs at the moment. -greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 15:16:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14413 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:16:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from srv02.spar-tek (spartek.rain.com [206.163.43.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14408 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:16:51 -0500 Received: by SRV02 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:21:59 -0800 Message-ID: <41CDB9BD7551D1118F9400A0C95A1E0A0D11D6@SRV02> From: Eric Aos To: "'diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: SV: fuel pumps/reservoirs Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:21:58 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I saw one several years ago (mid 80's). It was used on a Mechanical FI, but IMO it should work fine here. Little John Buttera (built funny cars, and an Indy car) did this for a street car. He used a small tank, with a float bowl from a Holley carb mounted to the side for level control, and ran the return line back to the original tank. I presume it was to keep the fuel from sitting under the hood too long, and absorbing too much heat (?). Just seems safer than 1 litter (however much that is) of fuel under pressure that near a hot motor. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:21:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15912 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:21:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from srv02.spar-tek (spartek.rain.com [206.163.43.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15908 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:21:22 -0500 Received: by SRV02 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:40:14 -0800 Message-ID: <41CDB9BD7551D1118F9400A0C95A1E0A0D11D7@SRV02> From: Eric Aos To: "'diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: 730 variations Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:40:12 -0800 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu After several weeks of lurking, and reading through the archives, I have a question. I am working on doing an IR Pontiac. It seems the ideal ECM to use is the 730. I have read in several places that the best setup is 90-92. I have a feeling that just saying Camaro will double the price of the parts, would one of the 6 cylinder applications be the same? Is the difference in the ECM, or is it just the Memcal (or is that Mempack ?). From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:22:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15935 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:22:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15930 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:22:18 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA26005 for mail_from ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:22:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:22:15 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > The D port is from what "chev" has done with the exhaust port, >probably some else did it first, it's just they are so common...... >Bruce IIRC, the exhaust ports on the Ford 427 FE "cammer" were the first to be D shaped---with the flat on the short side of the curve. In other words, round, except for where the flow would separate anywayz. Believe it was claimed to help keep velocity up, and more importantly, turbulence down. Regards, Greg >> Thanks for all the inputs.....Tim. >> From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:22:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15942 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:22:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15938 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:22:19 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA26014 for mail_from ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:22:17 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:22:17 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Love This Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Tom Sharpe wrote: >> > >> >> How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the >>driver >> board be mase to work?? >> >> TIA TOM >That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I >can hear the relay clicking away.. >Shannen I believe it's (the actual switching) done with an SCR, but that is coming from a total klutz in terms of electronics. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16029 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:23:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16025 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:23:56 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-47.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.116]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA29031 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:23:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <021201be4e29$9d7886e0$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: PWM driver Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:27:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: rauscher@icst.com To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:26 PM Subject: PWM driver Might think about using two IRFZ20's The surge on is big. I think on a TRex pump we went to 25A fuses, once. I'm no EE, but from what I looked at ganging some Power MOSFETs on the output looked like the hot setup, then add or minus as ya want Bruce > > >I can throw together a circuit to do this. I've used PWM for DC motor >control circuits before. How about a low side driver, it would be easier >to do. (This is a switch that grounds the motor). > >For input control, just an analog 0-12V for stopped to full on, with >all speeds in-between. > >I'll get it together and scanned hopefully before the week is out. > >Oh, do fuel pumps really draw 15 Amps? Ouch. > >One word of caution thou, PWM is electrically noisy. You will want to >put the controller close to the pump, as not to disrupt every electrical >device in your car. > >BobR. > > > > > >Tom Sharpe wrote: > >>How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the driver >>board be mase to work?? >> >>TIA TOM >> >------------------------------ > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:27:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16156 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:27:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oscva.orbital.com (orbital.com [199.36.24.99]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16151 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:27:36 -0500 Received: from smtphq.orbital.com (smtphq.orbital.com [199.36.16.253]) by oscva.orbital.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA18820 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:27:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by smtphq.orbital.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 8525670B.007535E1 ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:20:15 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ORBVA From: Teller.John@orbital.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <8525670B.007533A5.00@smtphq.orbital.com> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:23:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Great! By press I meant an arbor press, which I have used to press insulation displacement connectors onto ribbon cables. The regulator housing and bracket are pretty filthy, so I think I will brave the GM lawyers and disassemble the thing for cleaning... Thanks! --- John T. To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: (bcc: John Teller/ORBVA) Subject: Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator There's a diaphragm and a spring inside. Be prepared for it, and all will be fine. A press is probably overkill. Consider a lawyer working for GM. "Take it apart? What if it starts leaking fuel? That could be dangerous!" At least that was the impression one of the GM instructors left me with. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16173 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:28:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.ptd.net (srv1.ptd.net [204.186.0.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA16169 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:28:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:28:02 -0500 From: brucep@ptd.net Message-Id: <199902012128.QAA16169@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: (qmail 10018 invoked from network); 1 Feb 1999 21:27:58 -0000 Received: from cable019073.cable.eph.ptd.net (HELO brucepal) (204.186.19.73) by mail.ptd.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 1999 21:27:58 -0000 X-Sender: brucep@postoffice.ptd.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Calling all Ignition gurus . . . Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've lurked long enough and watched all the discussion here and learned alot . . . now I have some questions I am building an ignition system for a one cylinder tractor, This will be used on a 30 cid alcohol burning 1/4 scale pulling tractor. My plan after reading all there is to read about ignitions in the archive is to use a GM HEI coil. My system will be setup like this: Homemade nylon/plastic collar with epoxied in metal trigger(steel or iron?) attached to the crank, Ford distibutor coil pickup, (using the ford due to size) hooked to the 4 pin GM module, which in turn will be hooked to the HEI coil. In theory this appears to work, will it? Anyone do it yet? Will a GM coil run a single cylinder up to 8000rpms? I saw some info saying above 5000 rpms the coil drops off but that would be on a multiengine car right, since u would have one trigger per rev not 4,6 or 8? I realize that I will have a wasted spark on the exhaust stroke. My advance will be a manual cable that will rotate the pickup coil after the engine is started. Might play with a vacuum advance/or electronic setup later on in the season if this even works (anyone wanna help out I'm electronic stupid)? After reading all the info here I kinda think that it wouldn't be all that hard to put a GM (?) fuel injection system on this tractor, hardest part would be a chip for a single cylinder I guess? Carb rules for this class says must be normal aspiration so injection is legal, saw one guy running a hilborn at the nationals this past weekend. Cost is a big factor in this design, I need to use "junk yard parts" since I do not have alot to spend, besides it sure is alot better to beat the big $$$ guys with "junk" Thanks in advance for any info, and if this wasn't a good posting for this group sorry, but it is my first post in a year :) Bruce "advanced dealer in the great material continuum" From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:30:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16239 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:30:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from Gatekeeper.sciatl.com (Gatekeeper.SciAtl.COM [192.133.190.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16235 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:30:50 -0500 Received: from [172.18.27.117] by Gatekeeper.sciatl.com for id QAA24130; Mon Feb 1 16:30:49 1999 Message-ID: <36B61D01.7BAEAD55@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:30:41 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 730 variations References: <41CDB9BD7551D1118F9400A0C95A1E0A0D11D7@SRV02> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Andrew K. Mattei" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I pulled a 730 out of a really rusty '89 Cavalier Wagon about 2 weeks ago. I paid about $100 for the whole *car*. ;^D I plan on using the '90-92 TPI Camaro Memcal with it. Hopefully just the Memcal won't be too much :) Oh, and count me in on that "new" GM ECM list as well. Love to learn more about my 165... -Andrew Eric Aos wrote: > > After several weeks of lurking, and reading through the archives, I have > a question. I am working on doing an IR Pontiac. It seems the ideal ECM > to use is the 730. I have read in several places that the best setup is > 90-92. I have a feeling that just saying Camaro will double the price of > the parts, would one of the 6 cylinder applications be the same? Is the > difference in the ECM, or is it just the Memcal (or is that Mempack ?). -- *********************************************************************** I tell my son that there are 22 letters in the alphabet, and 4 verbs... Be, see, tee, and pee... Exist, look around, play golf, and pee... Drives my wife crazy... ;^) -Andrew From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:37:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16379 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:37:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.cas.honeywell.com [129.239.10.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16373 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:37:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199902012137.QAA16373@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR7771R>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:37:33 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Looking for injectors Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:34:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > << What kind? Type, brand, flow rate, O-ring, Hose-barb????? > >> > 24,27,32lb For GM TPI > Can't help you there, however I do have some sources for port-style injectors. Sorry.....Tim. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 16:59:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16764 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:59:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM [129.239.31.106]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16760 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:59:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199902012159.QAA16760@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR778A5>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:59:36 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:56:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> What for ecm?. > > We ended up conjuring our own. (Mainly by swiping circuits out of > >every known ecm in the free world). We wanted a box with knobs on it > that > >controls the basic fuel curve. It's not a good idea to take a lap top > out > >into the sand dunes to change the fuel curve. > > > Care to give any details about the ecm?. > The ecm started out using a 68HC11, but to make a very long story short, we ended up making an analog system. The digital stuff is a nightmare. You have to remember that this IS the most electrically noisy environment around. Magnesium engines, steel frames, aluminum do-dads, high RF fields from radios, lots of emi from magneto's, (to really screw up a ecm, watch what a MSD 7AL2 multi-spark does using solid core wires), but the topper is when some of these village-idiots use a garden tractor battery to try starting a 13:1 compression motor! Yes it can be done, and when we did this years ago, we were heading for a box the size of a coffin to buffer, hold-up, condition, isolate, the signals. The killer was using methanol and trying to convince the O2 sensor to stay alive. When we went to a basic analog system, 99.99999% of the problems went away. (No processor resets, endless loops, watch-dog timers, etc..etc..). Going to a speed-density system, (TPS and Tach), sequential-double fire, we could use pot to trim overall curve, idle, mid, top end. Adding a MAP gave us the additional curve for the boost correction fuel. I can't go into schematics without giving up too many secrets, but I'll try to answer questions. (Hope I answered some of your questions Bruce). Tim. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 17:07:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16952 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:07:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com (stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com [192.161.36.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA16948 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:07:03 -0500 Received: from stl-hub-01.boeing.com ([192.48.21.13]) by stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA23204 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:07:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from hpnfssvr.msc.az.boeing.com by stl-hub-01.boeing.com with ESMTP for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:07:02 -0800 Received: from hprs9.msc.az.boeing.com (hprs9.msc.az.boeing.com [134.51.1.56]) by hpnfssvr.msc.az.boeing.com with ESMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA20273 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:12:38 -0700 (MST) Received: (from tc75918@localhost) by hprs9.msc.az.boeing.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) id PAA04547 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:06:51 -0700 (MST) From: d houlton x0710 Message-Id: <199902012206.PAA04547@hprs9.msc.az.boeing.com> Subject: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:06:51 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <36B0D7E0.E6F38F86@grolen.com> from "Shannen Durphey" at Jan 28, 99 04:34:24 pm Organization: McDonnell Douglas Helicopter X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Shannen Durphey wrote: > > If you have any chances to roll around some of the car shows with well > restored examples from the early 40's to late 50's, you'll see that > the upper scale cars were designed to be very smooth. In the > transmissions, there were vacuum powered clutches, variable speed > transmissions, standard trans with torque converters. Even ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oooh!, the magic words. I was just about to ask about this. Can anyone give me some info or point me to a source about torque convertors and how exactly they work. Are these tightly interdependant on an automatic trans (because of the fluid used) or could they possibly be used independantly? I.e., adapted for use on a manual trans. Forgetting for the moment about the specific machiningg, adapters, etc that would be required to physically hook it up, is it possible or feasible to make it work outside of an automatic trans? Is it's hydraulic fluid supply sealed inside the convertor? Could you fill the convertor and seal it and expect it to work for very long or does it need a continuous flow of fluid for cooling? If so, would pressure need to be modulated for any reason or does it just need a continuous flow? thanks for any info --Dan From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 17:12:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17135 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:12:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17131 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:12:18 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 6RVYa07010 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:07:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:07:55 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: 730 variations Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 2/1/99 4:30:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, EOA@spartek.com writes: << After several weeks of lurking, and reading through the archives, I have a question. I am working on doing an IR Pontiac. It seems the ideal ECM to use is the 730. I have read in several places that the best setup is 90-92. I have a feeling that just saying Camaro will double the price of the parts, would one of the 6 cylinder applications be the same? Is the difference in the ECM, or is it just the Memcal (or is that Mempack ?). >> FYI, The 727 is identical to 730 except it is designed to be mounted in the engine compartment. (possibly more convenient when doing a conversion). You can get a 727 and the entire harness and sensors from the engine compartment of any late '80s or early '90s Pontiac Grand Prix with a v6 (I believe '88 to @ '91). Then you just put a V8 Memcal in it. Check this sight out: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/p4xref.html#1227727 I have the memcal I pulled from a 727('88 Grand Prix) running in my 730 right now (I have an I6). If I had known this from the beginning, I would not have had to drill a whole in my firewall to run the harness, and I would now have more room in my glove department (where my 730 now resides). Ted From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 17:16:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17197 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:16:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17193 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:16:11 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA09958 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:16:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <026201be4e30$e7511500$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 730 variations Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:19:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Eric Aos To: 'diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu' Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:39 PM Subject: 730 variations There are lots of late 80's FWD cars using the 730. The memcal is the difference, yes. As long as the tag says 1227730 an the original board is inside you'll be fine. Bruce >After several weeks of lurking, and reading through the archives, I have >a question. I am working on doing an IR Pontiac. It seems the ideal ECM >to use is the 730. I have read in several places that the best setup is >90-92. I have a feeling that just saying Camaro will double the price of >the parts, would one of the 6 cylinder applications be the same? From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 17:16:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17209 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:16:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17205 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:16:21 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-070.nordson.com [207.206.59.70]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA05627 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:16:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <036601be4e30$65fbf380$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: fuel pumps Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:15:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Not only fires but locate it so that even in a severe crash, the tank and lines will not get crushed or torn loose. A tank under the back seat area with the fuel pump nearby is a good location. You don't need floats or other stuff, feed a cone shaped tank tangentially at the bottom. Vent the top back to the main fuel tank, supply the high pressure pump from the middle of the bottom. Gary Derian > >I'm not being smart or a wise a--, but do you like fires?. >Have as absolutely few as possible connections, even, under the hood. >Use only AN Lines, and Fittings, and practice making a couple dozen lines >before you try it for the final fitting. >I've seen everything possible that could go wrong go wrong under the hood, >and way too many fires. > Keeping the pump, filter, seperator, accumulator (mini storage tank) and >as much misc fuel stuff by the tank and away from any heat source. >Sorry to ramble I just hate engine fires >Bruce > > >>I will also be converting to EFI shortly and wonder if the following will >>work: >> >>Use a low pressure electric pump mounted by the tank feeding forward to an >>insulated fuel resovoir ( say 1 liter in size) mounted in the engine >>compartment equipped with a float to keep the level constant. Then feed the >>high pressure pump locally from the bottom of the resovoir and route the >>regulator bypass outlet back to the top of the resovoir. The only problem >>that I can see is possibly vapour being trapped at the top of the tank. >> >>---------- From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 17:19:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17264 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:19:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17260 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:19:27 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-070.nordson.com [207.206.59.70]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA06427 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:19:26 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <037701be4e30$d45e9e40$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: fusible link questions Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:18:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I think most newer cars have done away with fusible links and use high amp fuses. Fuse size is determined by the wire gauge it feeds, not necessarily the circuit load. Of course, the circuit load determines the wire gauge. Gary Derian >> gents, >> >> Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather >> than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that I'm >> missing? > >Fusible links are designed to take a brief overloads without failing. >They're great for things like fan motors, which have high initial >current draw. According to a service bulletin, fuses can blow because >of expansion/contraction of the element due to quick high loads. I'm >not making this up, they called it thermal fatigue. And fuses need a >fuse holder and extra wiring. (Co$t) > >> >> Secondly, how do you convert fusible link guage to Amps? i.e. 20 GA >> fusible link will blow at what amperage? >I don't know that, but a fusible link should be 2 AWG sizes smaller >than the wire it's attached to. 10 ga wire should have 14 ga fusible >link. Length should be kept to a minimum. >Shannen >> >> thanks to all in advance >> jw From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 17:23:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17409 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:23:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17403 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:23:06 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA19497 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:23:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <026501be4e31$e0fa0bc0$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Calling all Ignition gurus . . . Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:26:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: brucep@ptd.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 4:42 PM Subject: Calling all Ignition gurus . . . Ahhh pulling tractors 30CID Single?. If you magnet/pickup will light a LED it'll fire the gm module. An 8,000 rpm single, I can't off hand think of an answer for the ecm. Bruce >I've lurked long enough and watched all the discussion here and learned alot >. . . now I have some questions > >I am building an ignition system for a one cylinder tractor, This will be >used on a 30 cid alcohol burning 1/4 scale pulling tractor. My plan after >reading all there is to read about ignitions in the archive is to use a GM >HEI coil. My system will be setup like this: > >Homemade nylon/plastic collar with epoxied in metal trigger(steel or iron?) >attached to the crank, Ford distibutor coil pickup, (using the ford due to >size) hooked to the 4 pin GM module, which in turn will be hooked to the HEI >coil. In theory this appears to work, will it? Anyone do it yet? > >Will a GM coil run a single cylinder up to 8000rpms? I saw some info saying >above 5000 rpms the coil drops off but that would be on a multiengine car >right, since u would have one trigger per rev not 4,6 or 8? > >I realize that I will have a wasted spark on the exhaust stroke. My advance >will be a manual cable that will rotate the pickup coil after the engine is >started. Might play with a vacuum advance/or electronic setup later on in >the season if this even works (anyone wanna help out I'm electronic stupid)? > >After reading all the info here I kinda think that it wouldn't be all that >hard to put a GM (?) fuel injection system on this tractor, hardest part >would be a chip for a single cylinder I guess? Carb rules for this class >says must be normal aspiration so injection is legal, saw one guy running a >hilborn at the nationals this past weekend. > >Cost is a big factor in this design, I need to use "junk yard parts" since I >do not have alot to spend, besides it sure is alot better to beat the big >$$$ guys with "junk" Thanks in advance for any info, and if this wasn't a >good posting for this group sorry, but it is my first post in a year :) > >Bruce > >"advanced dealer in the great material continuum" > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 17:59:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA18194 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:59:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.cas.honeywell.com [129.239.10.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA18189 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:59:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199902012259.RAA18189@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR770NW>; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:59:37 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Calling all Ignition gurus . . . Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:54:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Homemade nylon/plastic collar with epoxied in metal trigger(steel or > iron?) > attached to the crank, Ford distibutor coil pickup, (using the ford due to > size) hooked to the 4 pin GM module, which in turn will be hooked to the > HEI > coil. In theory this appears to work, will it? Anyone do it yet? > Yes, I have on my father's 1897 Fairbanks-Morris. (The one with the two big flywheels on it. Used to have a moving-contact ignitor. What a pain in the ^&^%). It now doing work on a home-made log splitter. I used a large bolt in one of the flywheels that goes past a Ford Magnetic Pick-up. No advance needed because top RPM is around 450. > Will a GM coil run a single cylinder up to 8000rpms? I saw some info > saying > above 5000 rpms the coil drops off but that would be on a multiengine car > right, since u would have one trigger per rev not 4,6 or 8? Yes it will run a single cyl. past 8000 rpms. We are using it now on some 4-cyl. engines to over 8000 now! Make sure that you use the GM HEI coil. They make a fender mount one that has a HV tower on it for hooking up a coil wire to. Tim. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 18:02:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18281 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:02:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from saturn.golden.net (saturn.golden.net [199.166.210.187]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18277 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:02:18 -0500 Received: from AS52-25-227.cas-kit.golden.net (AS52-25-227.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.132.227]) by saturn.golden.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA00814 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:02:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199902012302.SAA00814@saturn.golden.net> X-Sender: trinity@golden.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:02:30 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: trinity@golden.net (Mike) Subject: Re: 730 variations Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >After several weeks of lurking, and reading through the archives, I have >a question. I am working on doing an IR Pontiac. It seems the ideal ECM >to use is the 730. I have read in several places that the best setup is >90-92. I have a feeling that just saying Camaro will double the price of >the parts, would one of the 6 cylinder applications be the same? Is the >difference in the ECM, or is it just the Memcal (or is that Mempack ?). > My old 1988 Cavalier Z24 had a '730 in it. I think any FWD MPFI 2.8 or 3.1L V6 from about 1988 to 1991 or so had the '730 - Celebrity, Sunbird, Cavalier, Lumina - ...they're as common as dirt. The only thing to watch out for on older '730s is poor solder joints causing stalling, hesitation etc. Later ECMs are better in this regard. MEMCAL is the preferred term. AFAIK, the ECMs are the same and only the MEMCAL changes. If you're going to make use of the knock sensor, you need to make sure you get a MEMCAL from the engine you're putting in the car (e.g. a 305 MEMCAL for a 305 engine) - even if you change the PROM - because the knock filter assembly on the MEMCAL is designed for each engine type and may not function well on other engine lines. -- Mike From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 18:18:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18520 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:18:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18516 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:18:10 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-51.mtco.com [206.69.130.51]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA09216 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:18:09 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B63665.C597D468@mtco.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 17:19:01 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator References: <199901312142.OAA19993@user1.inficad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Daniel Houlton wrote: > Mike Pitts wrote: > > > > Some of you may remember my recent post about my desire to > > build a rising rate pressure regulator to mount in the stock location. > > Carl Summers informed me that he already has such a device. > > > > > http://www.emi.net/~mpitts/reg.htm > > > > Couple of questions: How much or a rising rate do you get? 2:1, > 3.2:1 , 5:1? Is this amount adjustable? How much was it? I'm > looking for one too and was planning on the Kenne Bell version. > Kinda procrastinating because it's about $200. > > --Dan How about a PWM controller with the Fuel pressure sensor under Love it and a simple pic type of control that delivers say 25 psi at 0-2000 rpm and 75 psi above 6000 rpm and a straight line between the two points. Need a pressure sensor and a tach lead.... simple.. replace the regulator with a small jet, a-la mechanical fuel injection. Someone come up with the circuit and I'll prototype it. Regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 18:18:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18539 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:18:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18535 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:18:58 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p15.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.15]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA06597 for mail_from ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:18:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 16:18:55 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Shannen Durphey wrote: >> >> If you have any chances to roll around some of the car shows with well >> restored examples from the early 40's to late 50's, you'll see that >> the upper scale cars were designed to be very smooth. In the >> transmissions, there were vacuum powered clutches, variable speed >> transmissions, standard trans with torque converters. Even > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Oooh!, the magic words. I was just about to ask about this. Can >anyone give me some info or point me to a source about torque convertors >and how exactly they work. Are these tightly interdependant on an >automatic trans (because of the fluid used) or could they possibly be >used independantly? I.e., adapted for use on a manual trans. > >Forgetting for the moment about the specific machiningg, adapters, etc that >would be required to physically hook it up, is it possible or feasible >to make it work outside of an automatic trans? Is it's hydraulic fluid >supply sealed inside the convertor? Could you fill the convertor and >seal it and expect it to work for very long or does it need a continuous >flow of fluid for cooling? If so, would pressure need to be modulated >for any reason or does it just need a continuous flow? > >thanks for any info >--Dan Don't recall whatinell they called it, but for a while Porsche used a fluid coupling AND a vacuum operated clutch (which was triggered by a microswitch on the manual shift lever) in front of a manual tranny in the 911's. The fluid coupling ran in engine oil, IIRC. (A fluid coupling does not multiply torque, has only two elements, called pump and turbine.) Easiest way to think of how one works (at least for me) is to think of a centrifugal pump driving a centrifugal turbine--and then eliminate the two housings, and all the attendant weight and inefficiencies, by just wrapping the impeller and turbine wheels into a taurus shape, and mounting them face to face. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 18:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18603 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:25:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from post.mail.demon.net (post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.27]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18599 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:25:40 -0500 Received: from [158.152.248.203] (helo=default) by post.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 107Sip-0005z7-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:25:39 +0000 From: "Ian Jones" To: Subject: New Binary editing s/w Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:23:27 -0000 Message-ID: <000001be4e39$df49a300$cbf8989e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For peoples interest I have uploaded some DOS binary file editing software to ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/EMUL16.ZIP Ian Jones Cobi Electronics From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 19:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19143 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:01:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19139 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:01:14 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA28779 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:01:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv5-44.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.7.91]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA26196 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:01:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001be4e58$2c058380$5b079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 18:59:48 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Not quite Bruce. Picture the following "Remapping" procedure............................... Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in closed loop under all conditions. Basically, you would now have a VE driven cal, with closed loop correction capability. But, instead of "learning" towards stoich, the system would learn towards a safe setpoint (of say 11.5:1) defined by the electronic gizmo I had proposed. You could never map a turbo/supercharged car to stoich, but 11.5 should be safe under most conditions. Warm the engine, and verify that it is indeed in closed loop. Attach the little gizmo and drive the vehicle. As you drive, the computer will iterate towards a set of BLM's. Stop every once in awhile, and check that you have covered all of the BLM cells and perhaps even massage some of the raw VE tables in order to help speed up the process. When you are done, you will have a VE map of correct "shape", but incorrect "magnitude". When you are happy with the BLM learning exercise, then you must shift the new VE map to reflect stoich rather than the atrificial setpoint. This is just a ratiometric number crunching exercise that is easily handled in something like Exel, or Lotus, with data parsing. After the "new" map has been dumped into the cal, restore the A/F modifiers and PE function, and PRESTO, you would have a pretty good baseline cal that you can begin to fine tune. This is similar to the procedure that I use for remapping my MAP based projects, but that elusive little electronic gizmo would make my life a lot easier and would eliminate a lot of iterative data manipulation. Any thoughts, suggestions, recommendations? Again, build a wide band A/F meter that can emulate a zirconia oxygen sensor, and accommodate a user setpoint, and much of the world could be at your doorstep. Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:16 AM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Walter Sherwin >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM >Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > >This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is >needed. >Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. >There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. >Bruce > > >>Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an >>idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd >>buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture >>this........................................................you are working >>on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial >>aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps >it >>was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are still >>faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. Remapping >>the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex >>editing. >> >>What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >>appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an >>output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >>computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >>A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >>then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read >>this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a >chassis >>dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >>This would even help the normally aspirated guys. >> >>Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows >where >>I can find one) then let me know, please. >> >> >> >>Thanks; >>Walt. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bruce Plecan >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM >>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >> >> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Raymond C Drouillard >>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >>>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >>> >>>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >>>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >>>Bruce >>> >>> >>>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >>>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >>>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, >>>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components for >>>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when it's >>>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >>>> >>>>Ray Drouillard >>>> >>>> >>>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >>>>writes: >>>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >>>>>would >>>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a >>>>>wide O2 meter. >>>>> >>>>>Steve >>>>> >>>>>Mike Pitts wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >>>>>> >>>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >>>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >>>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >>>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >>>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >>>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >>>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >>>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >>>>>accomplished >>>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >>>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >>>>>> >>>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >>>>>> >>>>>> -Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>___________________________________________________________________ >>>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >>>> >>> >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 19:12:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:12:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19339 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:12:02 -0500 From: JRECPA@aol.com Received: from JRECPA@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id XROAa01221 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:03:58 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:03:58 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 2/1/99 3:10:31 PM US Mountain Standard Time, tc75918@hprs9.msc.az.boeing.com writes: << Forgetting for the moment about the specific machiningg, adapters, etc that would be required to physically hook it up, is it possible or feasible to make it work outside of an automatic trans? Is it's hydraulic fluid supply sealed inside the convertor? Could you fill the convertor and seal it and expect it to work for very long or does it need a continuous flow of fluid for cooling? If so, would pressure need to be modulated for any reason or does it just need a continuous flow? thanks for any info --Dan >> you should expect to provide some cooling fluid flow depending on the stall speed and if you will have a lockup converter you will need to control that with fluid pressure. Your best bet is to take a front pump and converter from a donor tranmission. James From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 19:25:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19646 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:25:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19642 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:25:47 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA05062 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:25:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv3-16.oshawa.idirect.com [207.136.121.144]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA10163 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:25:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006101be4e5b$98f16560$5b079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:24:18 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The "gizmo", would be used as part of a specific remapping procedure. All of the details are outlined in a response to Bruce's similar question/statement. You could not use this approach while the computer was in open loop. It has to be "forced" into artificial closed loop for tuning purposes. I am always interested in automating the recalibration process. See the other message, and feel free if you have thoughts/comments. Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Stuart Bunning To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 11:51 PM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > >Sounds Good But wouldn't this only work for OPEN LOOP mode?? > >Once you nail it of your car is cold and hasn't enable closed loop mode even >if the ECU still generated BLM's at WOT or cruise when cold based on O2 >sencor voltage it doesn't alter fueling to try to stay at 14.7:1 anyway. or >am i wrong ???? > > > >>What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >>appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an >>output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >>computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >>A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >>then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read >>this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a chassis >>dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >>This would even help the normally aspirated guys. >> > > >Best Regards, > >STUART BUNNING >SALES ENGINEER >KENELEC PTY LTD > >23-25 REDLAND DRIVE >MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 >AUSTRALIA > >PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 >FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 >EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au >WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 19:31:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19835 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:31:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19831 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:31:09 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id TAA06291 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:31:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv3-16.oshawa.idirect.com [207.136.121.144]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA13109 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:31:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007a01be4e5c$5876efe0$5b079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:30:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thank-you. Where could I find more information regarding the "Field SFC-VTEC" controller? Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Wen Yen Chan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 7:06 AM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >Hello, > >Checkout the Field SFC-VTEC controller. In addition to allowing you to >change the VTEC cut-over point it allows some adjustments (the transfer >function can be a non linear function of engine speed and map) to >be made to the fuel curves. > >On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Walter Sherwin >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM >> Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >> >> This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is >> needed. >> Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. >> There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. >> Bruce >> >> >> >Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an >> >idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd >> >buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture >> >this........................................................you are working >> >on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial >> >aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps >> it >> >was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are still >> >faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. Remapping >> >the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex >> >editing. >> > >> >What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >> >appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an >> >output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >> >computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >> >A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >> >then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively (read >> >this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a >> chassis >> >dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >> >This would even help the normally aspirated guys. >> > >> >Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows >> where >> >I can find one) then let me know, please. >> > >> > >> > >> >Thanks; >> >Walt. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Bruce Plecan >> >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM >> >Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >> > >> > >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: Raymond C Drouillard >> >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >> >>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >> >> >> >>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >> >>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >> >>Bruce >> >> >> >> >> >>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >> >>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >> >>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, >> >>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components for >> >>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when it's >> >>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >> >>> >> >>>Ray Drouillard >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >> >>>writes: >> >>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >> >>>>would >> >>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a >> >>>>wide O2 meter. >> >>>> >> >>>>Steve >> >>>> >> >>>>Mike Pitts wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >> >>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >> >>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >> >>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >> >>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >> >>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >> >>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >> >>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >> >>>>accomplished >> >>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >> >>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -Mike >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>___________________________________________________________________ >> >>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> >>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> >>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> >>> >> >> >> > >> >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 20:02:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA20723 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:02:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA20719 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:02:49 -0500 Received: from default ([12.77.179.99]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990202010247.JDXB27869@default> for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:02:47 +0000 From: "Gwyn Reedy" To: Subject: RE: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:57:53 -0500 Message-ID: <000301be4e47$1119ca60$63b34d0c@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Take a WWII tank or a 40's Chrysler product with 'fluid drive' and you have a fluid coupling with a standard transmission. Gwyn Reedy Brandon, Florida mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > Hermann > Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:19 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) > > > >Shannen Durphey wrote: > >> > >> If you have any chances to roll around some of the car shows with well > >> restored examples from the early 40's to late 50's, you'll see that > >> the upper scale cars were designed to be very smooth. In the > >> transmissions, there were vacuum powered clutches, variable speed > >> transmissions, standard trans with torque converters. Even > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > >Oooh!, the magic words. I was just about to ask about this. Can > >anyone give me some info or point me to a source about torque convertors > >and how exactly they work. Are these tightly interdependant on an > >automatic trans (because of the fluid used) or could they possibly be > >used independantly? I.e., adapted for use on a manual trans. > > > >Forgetting for the moment about the specific machiningg, > adapters, etc that > >would be required to physically hook it up, is it possible or feasible > >to make it work outside of an automatic trans? Is it's hydraulic fluid > >supply sealed inside the convertor? Could you fill the convertor and > >seal it and expect it to work for very long or does it need a continuous > >flow of fluid for cooling? If so, would pressure need to be modulated > >for any reason or does it just need a continuous flow? > > > >thanks for any info > >--Dan > > Don't recall whatinell they called it, but for a while Porsche > used a fluid > coupling AND a vacuum operated clutch (which was triggered by a > microswitch > on the manual shift lever) in front of a manual tranny in the 911's. The > fluid coupling ran in engine oil, IIRC. (A fluid coupling does > not multiply > torque, has only two elements, called pump and turbine.) > > Easiest way to think of how one works (at least for me) is to think of a > centrifugal pump driving a centrifugal turbine--and then eliminate the two > housings, and all the attendant weight and inefficiencies, by > just wrapping > the impeller and turbine wheels into a taurus shape, and mounting > them face > to face. > > Regards, Greg > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 20:09:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA20861 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:09:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA20856 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:09:00 -0500 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti34a24-0109.dialup.online.no [130.67.64.237]) by online.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA15382 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:08:58 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902020108.CAA15382@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: injector flow Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:09:41 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check out this injector flow carts from Auto speed newsletter: http://www.autospeed.com/A_0102/P_1/article.html Espen From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 20:13:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA21048 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:13:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21043 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:13:27 -0500 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti34a24-0109.dialup.online.no [130.67.64.237]) by online.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA20571 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:13:25 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199902020113.CAA20571@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: injector flow Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 02:09:41 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check out this injector flow carts from Auto speed newsletter: http://www.autospeed.com/A_0102/P_1/article.html Espen From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 20:54:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA22267 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:54:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA22262 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:54:29 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id UAA23363 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:54:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <035801be4e4f$636fb240$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:57:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 7:08 PM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) This cal with everything turned off would be the first trick. The only systems I have a clue about are gm so I speaking specifically about them. If your serious about even trying then I suggest you look at a aussie 808 since it uses the least code, and has room to write on the existing bin.. Would seem to me, just using a piggy back devise using the EGOR would be the ticket. Just use a Stamp/Pic and monitor the O2. Reverse engineering a prom to disable it is alot of work, and I've been warned that deleting to much can cause "routine" problems. One thing I think would work is using a series of 555s for fuel, and the oem box for timing. Bruce >Not quite Bruce. Picture the following "Remapping" >procedure............................... > >Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, >etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in >closed loop under all conditions. Basically, you would now have a VE driven >cal, with closed loop correction capability. But, instead of "learning" >towards stoich, the system would learn towards a safe setpoint (of say >11.5:1) defined by the electronic gizmo I had proposed. You could never >map a turbo/supercharged car to stoich, but 11.5 should be safe under most >conditions. > >Warm the engine, and verify that it is indeed in closed loop. Attach the >little gizmo and drive the vehicle. As you drive, the computer will iterate >towards a set of BLM's. Stop every once in awhile, and check that you have >covered all of the BLM cells and perhaps even massage some of the raw VE >tables in order to help speed up the process. When you are done, you will >have a VE map of correct "shape", but incorrect "magnitude". > >When you are happy with the BLM learning exercise, then you must shift the >new VE map to reflect stoich rather than the atrificial setpoint. This is >just a ratiometric number crunching exercise that is easily handled in >something like Exel, or Lotus, with data parsing. > >After the "new" map has been dumped into the cal, restore the A/F modifiers >and PE function, and PRESTO, you would have a pretty good baseline cal that >you can begin to fine tune. This is similar to the procedure that I use for >remapping my MAP based projects, but that elusive little electronic gizmo >would make my life a lot easier and would eliminate a lot of iterative data >manipulation. > >Any thoughts, suggestions, recommendations? Again, build a wide band A/F >meter that can emulate a zirconia oxygen sensor, and accommodate a user >setpoint, and much of the world could be at your doorstep. > > > >Walt. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:16 AM >Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Walter Sherwin >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM >>Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >> >>This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is >>needed. >>Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. >>There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. >>Bruce >> >> >>>Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an >>>idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd >>>buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture >>>this........................................................you are >working >>>on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial >>>aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps >>it >>>was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are >still >>>faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. >Remapping >>>the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex >>>editing. >>> >>>What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >>>appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to an >>>output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >>>computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >>>A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >>>then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively >(read >>>this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a >>chassis >>>dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >>>This would even help the normally aspirated guys. >>> >>>Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows >>where >>>I can find one) then let me know, please. >>> >>> >>> >>>Thanks; >>>Walt. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Bruce Plecan >>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM >>>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >>> >>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Raymond C Drouillard >>>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >>>>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >>>> >>>>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >>>>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >>>>Bruce >>>> >>>> >>>>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >>>>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >>>>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic form, >>>>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components >for >>>>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when >it's >>>>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >>>>> >>>>>Ray Drouillard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >>>>>writes: >>>>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >>>>>>would >>>>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a >>>>>>wide O2 meter. >>>>>> >>>>>>Steve >>>>>> >>>>>>Mike Pitts wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >>>>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >>>>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >>>>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >>>>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >>>>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >>>>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >>>>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >>>>>>accomplished >>>>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >>>>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>>>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>>>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 21:05:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22549 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:05:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [205.247.203.87] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22544 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:05:40 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:08:49 -0500 Received: from [205.247.202.69] by grolen.com id a8960.wrk; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:04:44 EDT Message-ID: <36B65C43.113FC76C@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:00:35 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg Hermann wrote: > > >Shannen Durphey wrote: > >> > >> If you have any chances to roll around some of the car shows with well > >> restored examples from the early 40's to late 50's, you'll see that > >> the upper scale cars were designed to be very smooth. In the > >> transmissions, there were vacuum powered clutches, variable speed > >> transmissions, standard trans with torque converters. Even > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > >Oooh!, the magic words. I was just about to ask about this. Can > >anyone give me some info or point me to a source about torque convertors > >and how exactly they work. Are these tightly interdependant on an > >automatic trans (because of the fluid used) or could they possibly be > >used independantly? I.e., adapted for use on a manual trans. > > > >Forgetting for the moment about the specific machiningg, adapters, etc that > >would be required to physically hook it up, is it possible or feasible > >to make it work outside of an automatic trans? Is it's hydraulic fluid > >supply sealed inside the convertor? Could you fill the convertor and > >seal it and expect it to work for very long or does it need a continuous > >flow of fluid for cooling? If so, would pressure need to be modulated > >for any reason or does it just need a continuous flow? > > > >thanks for any info > >--Dan > > Don't recall whatinell they called it, but for a while Porsche used a fluid > coupling AND a vacuum operated clutch (which was triggered by a microswitch > on the manual shift lever) in front of a manual tranny in the 911's. The > fluid coupling ran in engine oil, IIRC. (A fluid coupling does not multiply > torque, has only two elements, called pump and turbine.) > > Easiest way to think of how one works (at least for me) is to think of a > centrifugal pump driving a centrifugal turbine--and then eliminate the two > housings, and all the attendant weight and inefficiencies, by just wrapping > the impeller and turbine wheels into a taurus shape, and mounting them face > to face. > > Regards, Greg 1952 Dodge or Chrysler had TC+Manual. In order to engage gears or shift you used the clutch, but once you were in gear, you didn't have to press the clutch again. Pretty fragile, so say those in the know. Legendary Tucker had torque converter at either rear wheel. Big difference between torque converter and fluid coupling is the addition of the stator, which redirects fluid from the "turbine" above back to the "pump" in the direction of pump rotation, multiplying the effective torque of the engine. Don't know many details about the Chrysler setup,(just some old stories) but auto trans' TC gets fluid from the transmission, and when there's a heavy load applied, there's a lot of heat generation going on there. Lotsa mechanics have seen overheated TCs that have become discolored. Those designs need sufficient cooling. Vegas had holes in the trans housing and a fan spot welded to the converter to circulate air. I'm looking at a reference book called "Automatic Transmissions", by John C White, ISBN# 0-8273-2606-8, which has good torque converter info. There are past issues of "Cars and Parts" which discuss the old Dodge transmissions pretty heavily, although there seem to be a few variations on that one. The reverse of this is a clutched automatic, which for racing would be fully manual. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 21:41:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA23353 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:41:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA23349 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:41:21 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id MAA11215 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:39:07 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:39:07 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199902020239.MAA11215@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This sounds GREAT. In my situation I am about to start my car for the first time with EFI. I have used a stop watch and timed how long my car idled with just the fuel in the fuel bowl of the carby until it stalled. I then measured the fuel capacity of the fuel bowl in the carby. I have removed the carby and installed the TBI and now (havn't done this yet) are going to keep altering the VE table until the base pulse width for the injectors will supply the same amount of fuel as my carby did at idle over the same time period. Hopefully I will be able to start the car and it will idle. The problem is if I change RPM or load of the engine ( touch the trottle ) I would instantly go lean. If I was to set the entire VE map the same maybe your approach will enable to use BLM numbers to adjust the rest of my map. Comments and criticism is appreciated.... >Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, >etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in >closed loop under all conditions. Basically, you would now have a VE driven >cal, with closed loop correction capability. But, instead of "learning" >towards stoich, the system would learn towards a safe setpoint (of say >11.5:1) defined by the electronic gizmo I had proposed. You could never >map a turbo/supercharged car to stoich, but 11.5 should be safe under most >conditions. Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:01:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23848 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:01:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from MNSi.Net (ns1.mnsi.net [206.48.122.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA23843 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:01:18 -0500 Received: (uucp@localhost) by MNSi.Net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA11012 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:55:02 -0500 Received: from dyn208-28-61-22.cha.mnsi.net(208.28.61.22) by e450.mnsi.net via smap (V2.0) id xma010887; Tue, 2 Feb 99 02:54:33 GMT Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990201220625.007af290@in.mnsi.net> X-Sender: israels@in.mnsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:06:25 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Todd Israels Subject: Re: Different Strokes In-Reply-To: <36B53111.56C00725@mtco.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:44 PM 1/31/99 -0600, you wrote: > > >David Sagers wrote: > >> In a conversation with the machine shop this afternoon the engine builder said I should consider going with a shorter stroke. I can build a 4" stroke 434 ci, a 3.75" 406 ci, or a 3.48" stroke 355 ci engine. The block I have is already clearanced for the 4" stroke so the additional cost of preparing the block isn't a factor. I already own the 4" crank and rods, and the crank can be traded out for a shorter stroke without any additional cost. > >The SBC needs longer rods. The local 434 alcohol motors turn 7500+ and make 675+ HP w/ a 4BBL and a Donovan aluminum block. The longer stroke motors are hard on blocks and cranks, stock blocks won't last at all in a 432. 410s are now the rage. I have also seen a 355 (400 block 327 crank) at 11000 rpm. 383s, and 377s. Mine is a 6" rod 406. Turbo motors need extremely strong bottom ends. IMHO, the 432 will break the block a 6000 rpm w/ 15 lbs boost, >and the crank will be gone too. Go with the 406 or smaller. just another $.02 Tom > > > Just another thought on this subject I would think traction and driveability at lower RPM would be important. I would have the car run as normal untill about 2000RPM then wake up and go like crazy to 5000RPM or so. This will give good driveability in traffic and such and still run strong. This is the aproch I am using for my project A V8 Fiero. I wont be using a turbo but plan to use EFI to make a V8 run good off its cam and light up when I need (want) it. I drove a 355 Fiero and it started to drizzle, we could hardly leave a light or turn a corner without the rear breaking losse. The owner rarely drives the car and says he liked the original 350 2Barrel from a pickup better than the 355 monster it became. Just a thought on what will make the better street car. Good Luck with your project. Todd Israels From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:31:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24388 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:31:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24384 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:31:52 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-249.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.249]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA347212 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:31:43 GMT Message-ID: <36B671AC.50F@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:31:57 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: <199902012206.PAA04547@hprs9.msc.az.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu d houlton x0710 wrote: > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > If you have any chances to roll around some of the car shows with well > > restored examples from the early 40's to late 50's, you'll see that > > the upper scale cars were designed to be very smooth. In the > > transmissions, there were vacuum powered clutches, variable speed > > transmissions, standard trans with torque converters. Even > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Oooh!, the magic words. I was just about to ask about this. Can > anyone give me some info or point me to a source about torque convertors > and how exactly they work. Are these tightly interdependant on an > automatic trans (because of the fluid used) or could they possibly be > used independantly? I.e., adapted for use on a manual trans. > > Forgetting for the moment about the specific machiningg, adapters, etc that > would be required to physically hook it up, is it possible or feasible > to make it work outside of an automatic trans? Is it's hydraulic fluid > supply sealed inside the convertor? Could you fill the convertor and > seal it and expect it to work for very long or does it need a continuous > flow of fluid for cooling? If so, would pressure need to be modulated > for any reason or does it just need a continuous flow? > > thanks for any info > --Dan Actually, the manual trans used a fluid coupling, not a torque convrerter. Hy-Drive was one example, on the plymouth. The fluid coupling is a 2 element design and does NOT amplify torque. This was used on the original Powerglide and Hydramatic as well. Also called a torus, the fluid coupling is basically two fans - one blowing at the other. Using oil instead of air, and enclosing them in a housing increases the effisiency - just a little bit. A split "guide ring" in some models reduced the turbulence, helping efficiency a bit more. The dual coupling hydramatic used two of these couplings, one large and one small - which also acted as clutches for the automatic by running one full and one empty.On later Hydramatics, there was a third member added to the torus, called a multiplier. In these fluid couplings, the vanes were basically straight, except fotr the bultiplier which had vanes at a 45 degree angle. This was ALMOST a torque converter. The torque converter is a fluid coupling, with curved blades. The blades meet like the treads on a tractor tire so the oil thrown off the drive turbine(pump or impeller) gets caught in a "bucket" on the load turbine. Efficiency is much higher with a torque converter. Very few torque converters were two element, as the "stator", analogous to the multiplier, was so much more effective with the curved blades. Instead of the oil coming off the turbine trying to slow down the impeller, it is redirected to the turbine, giving off more of it's energy the second time round. The ford-o-matic was one of the first to use a three member TQ, along with later Powerglides,torque-flytes and cruise-o-matics.. Lockup TQs are nothing new - Studebaker used a 4 member TQ in the late 50s or early sixties with a direct drive clutch.The Dynaflow used a 4 member TQ - or twin turbine converter.Early PowerFlytes were also 4 unit. Some of these used a variable pitch turbine. The early Powerglide and Turboglide used 5 member converters - two pumps, two stators, and one turbine. Just a "short" history and description of the Torque converter. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:35:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24448 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:35:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24444 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:35:45 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA27251 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:35:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv6-28.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.7.123]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA09808 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:35:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003401be4e76$2153cc80$7b079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:34:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Curious...........how do you "Remap" a GM MAP based system at CSH Central? Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:33 PM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Walter Sherwin >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 7:08 PM >Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > >This cal with everything turned off would be the first trick. >The only systems I have a clue about are gm so I speaking specifically about >them. >If your serious about even trying then I suggest you look at a >aussie 808 since it uses the least code, and has room to >write on the existing bin.. > >Would seem to me, just using a piggy back devise using the EGOR >would be the ticket. Just use a Stamp/Pic and monitor the O2. >Reverse engineering a prom to disable it is alot of work, and I've >been warned that deleting to much can cause "routine" problems. >One thing I think would work is using a series of 555s for fuel, >and the oem box for timing. >Bruce > > >>Not quite Bruce. Picture the following "Remapping" >>procedure............................... >> >>Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, >>etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in >>closed loop under all conditions. Basically, you would now have a VE >driven >>cal, with closed loop correction capability. But, instead of "learning" >>towards stoich, the system would learn towards a safe setpoint (of say >>11.5:1) defined by the electronic gizmo I had proposed. You could never >>map a turbo/supercharged car to stoich, but 11.5 should be safe under most >>conditions. >> >>Warm the engine, and verify that it is indeed in closed loop. Attach the >>little gizmo and drive the vehicle. As you drive, the computer will >iterate >>towards a set of BLM's. Stop every once in awhile, and check that you have >>covered all of the BLM cells and perhaps even massage some of the raw VE >>tables in order to help speed up the process. When you are done, you will >>have a VE map of correct "shape", but incorrect "magnitude". >> >>When you are happy with the BLM learning exercise, then you must shift the >>new VE map to reflect stoich rather than the atrificial setpoint. This is >>just a ratiometric number crunching exercise that is easily handled in >>something like Exel, or Lotus, with data parsing. >> >>After the "new" map has been dumped into the cal, restore the A/F >modifiers >>and PE function, and PRESTO, you would have a pretty good baseline cal that >>you can begin to fine tune. This is similar to the procedure that I use >for >>remapping my MAP based projects, but that elusive little electronic gizmo >>would make my life a lot easier and would eliminate a lot of iterative data >>manipulation. >> >>Any thoughts, suggestions, recommendations? Again, build a wide band A/F >>meter that can emulate a zirconia oxygen sensor, and accommodate a user >>setpoint, and much of the world could be at your doorstep. >> >> >> >>Walt. >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Bruce Plecan >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:16 AM >>Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >> >> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Walter Sherwin >>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM >>>Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >>> >>>This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is >>>needed. >>>Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. >>>There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. >>>Bruce >>> >>> >>>>Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an >>>>idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now (I'd >>>>buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture >>>>this........................................................you are >>working >>>>on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial >>>>aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or perhaps >>>it >>>>was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are >>still >>>>faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. >>Remapping >>>>the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex >>>>editing. >>>> >>>>What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >>>>appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to >an >>>>output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >>>>computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say 11.5:1 >>>>A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >>>>then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively >>(read >>>>this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a >>>chassis >>>>dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >>>>This would even help the normally aspirated guys. >>>> >>>>Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows >>>where >>>>I can find one) then let me know, please. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Thanks; >>>>Walt. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Bruce Plecan >>>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM >>>>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Raymond C Drouillard >>>>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >>>>>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >>>>> >>>>>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >>>>>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >>>>>Bruce >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >>>>>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >>>>>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic >form, >>>>>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components >>for >>>>>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when >>it's >>>>>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ray Drouillard >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >>>>>>writes: >>>>>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >>>>>>>would >>>>>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a >>>>>>>wide O2 meter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Mike Pitts wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >>>>>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >>>>>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >>>>>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >>>>>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >>>>>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >>>>>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >>>>>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >>>>>>>accomplished >>>>>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >>>>>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>>>>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>>>>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:38:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24501 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:38:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24496 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:38:22 -0500 From: WATCHmeDRV@aol.com Received: from WATCHmeDRV@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WEIFa23181 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:34:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:34:11 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: wanted corvette transmission Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am looking for super T10 parts or the complete trans. It's a 4+3 for a corvette. If anyone can help me with some parts or a complete trans that you might have laying around, It would sure help me out. My # is 706-547-0052, if no answer please leave a message. Thanks, DETROIT AMERSON From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:53:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24948 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:53:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24942 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:53:08 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id NAA12035 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:50:53 +1000 (EST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:50:53 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199902020350.NAA12035@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: VE calculations from torque graph and manifold pressure. Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Given the fact that I have a DYNO torque curve of a motor over it entire RPM range for WOT I should be able to convert torque to VE as they are essently the same thing. I would first assume for arguement sake my moter is 100% efficient at max torque to simplify calculations and tweek it later. With the above results I should be able to build one column in my VE map in my 808 ECU. Would it be possible to somehow via math's calculations to work out (roughly) The VE numbers for all other load conditions. For example if at 3000RPM I have maximum torque at WOT 100% efficient could I assume that at 50KPA it would we only 50% efficient,25KPA 25% etc... Will this work ( for atleast a means to build a CRUDE!!! VE map so I can atleast start and drive the car slowly???) I am starting from scratch generation a VE as the motor I have put EFI on never had it from the factory so I don't have a factory MEMCAL to tweek... Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA24985 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:53:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA24981 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:53:57 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2E2Z2ZM; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:53:01 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:43:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Smooth strategy) Message-ID: <19990131.235248.15918.5.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <000301be4e47$1119ca60$63b34d0c@default> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-10 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:57:53 -0500 "Gwyn Reedy" writes: >Take a WWII tank or a 40's Chrysler product with 'fluid drive' and you have >a fluid coupling with a standard transmission. > >Gwyn Reedy >Brandon, Florida >mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com Mercedes also uses it in their Unimog 4X4 and 6X6 trucks. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:56:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25056 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:56:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25052 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:56:02 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2E2Z25C; Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:53:01 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us, frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com, tony.cooper@virgin.net Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:52:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Wide Range EGO Message-ID: <19990131.235248.15918.6.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <36b8d001.1501889@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,9-13,15,17,19,21-28,30,32,34-40,42-44,46-48,50,52-60 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have been wanting one of those gizmos for a long time, too. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to develop one, although I have done enough design work on it to know what it will look like. I would much rather have a tested circuit or, better yet, a PC board. Garfield had gotten one working and was in the middle of testing it when he was flamed off the board. Too bad... lots of people really wanted that circuit. Now, it would appear that a few people are trying it again. I wish them success, and hope that they get some return for their effort. Ray Drouillard On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 16:18:59 GMT bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) writes: >Ray, others - if the parts are about 20 bucks cept the UEGO and a board first >off - small quantity -is about 50 bucks - I'll take up a collection and write >you a check for several as soon as you are ready. Don't forget to include in >the price pizza and a bucket of beer. > >Hell, all most of want is to: >A: Understand the technology - we think its neat (dating myself) >B: Use the technology for our thangs >C: Acquire it without domestic budget consent > >Please don't misunderstand if some of us are very curious. Saying its doable >affects some of us like showing up with a truck load of girl scout cookies at >a dirty old man in raincoats convention. We NEED need need need want want >want pant pant oh oh oh - who's yor daddeeeeeee!!!!! one. > >A quick consensus says 0 - 5 volts output - fine for meters etc > >O to 1 with Stoic about .5 makes it almost a drop in. > >And the adjustable crossing point - pleeeeze. And hopefully electronically >setable so a stamp can control it. > >Most of us just want one, and if it turns into a viable commercial opportunity >for you, more power, just as long as C above applies. > >Thanking you in advance for your none look up the patent - it will only be >available to those willing to Monica the developer attitude and approach. > >1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" >1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" >1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant >1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" > >Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 22:59:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA25209 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:59:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA25205 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:59:34 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-88.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.88]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA246126 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 03:59:31 GMT Message-ID: <36B67840.63A7@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:00:00 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: pulse widths and ve questions References: <003401be4e76$2153cc80$7b079ad8@wsherwin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone out there with some real numbers as to pulse width range on port injected engines? Need to know real life idle vs full throttle numbers. Also, any idea what the VE of an average engine is at idle? enquiring mind wants to know. I know the theory behind it - just need some real numbers and I don't have a scanner to get them with. TIA From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 23:08:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25436 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:08:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25431 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:08:26 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA11618 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:08:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <043401be4e62$153af720$74198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:11:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:50 PM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) If you down load the Tunetip (both parts) from FTP 332, I explain it all. Bruce >Curious...........how do you "Remap" a GM MAP based system at CSH Central? > >Walt. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:33 PM >Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Walter Sherwin >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 7:08 PM >>Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >> >>This cal with everything turned off would be the first trick. >>The only systems I have a clue about are gm so I speaking specifically >about >>them. >>If your serious about even trying then I suggest you look at a >>aussie 808 since it uses the least code, and has room to >>write on the existing bin.. >> >>Would seem to me, just using a piggy back devise using the EGOR >>would be the ticket. Just use a Stamp/Pic and monitor the O2. >>Reverse engineering a prom to disable it is alot of work, and I've >>been warned that deleting to much can cause "routine" problems. >>One thing I think would work is using a series of 555s for fuel, >>and the oem box for timing. >>Bruce >> >> >>>Not quite Bruce. Picture the following "Remapping" >>>procedure............................... >>> >>>Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, >>>etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in >>>closed loop under all conditions. Basically, you would now have a VE >>driven >>>cal, with closed loop correction capability. But, instead of "learning" >>>towards stoich, the system would learn towards a safe setpoint (of say >>>11.5:1) defined by the electronic gizmo I had proposed. You could never >>>map a turbo/supercharged car to stoich, but 11.5 should be safe under most >>>conditions. >>> >>>Warm the engine, and verify that it is indeed in closed loop. Attach the >>>little gizmo and drive the vehicle. As you drive, the computer will >>iterate >>>towards a set of BLM's. Stop every once in awhile, and check that you >have >>>covered all of the BLM cells and perhaps even massage some of the raw VE >>>tables in order to help speed up the process. When you are done, you will >>>have a VE map of correct "shape", but incorrect "magnitude". >>> >>>When you are happy with the BLM learning exercise, then you must shift >the >>>new VE map to reflect stoich rather than the atrificial setpoint. This is >>>just a ratiometric number crunching exercise that is easily handled in >>>something like Exel, or Lotus, with data parsing. >>> >>>After the "new" map has been dumped into the cal, restore the A/F >>modifiers >>>and PE function, and PRESTO, you would have a pretty good baseline cal >that >>>you can begin to fine tune. This is similar to the procedure that I use >>for >>>remapping my MAP based projects, but that elusive little electronic gizmo >>>would make my life a lot easier and would eliminate a lot of iterative >data >>>manipulation. >>> >>>Any thoughts, suggestions, recommendations? Again, build a wide band >A/F >>>meter that can emulate a zirconia oxygen sensor, and accommodate a user >>>setpoint, and much of the world could be at your doorstep. >>> >>> >>> >>>Walt. >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Bruce Plecan >>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 6:16 AM >>>Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >>> >>> >>>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Walter Sherwin >>>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>>>Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:13 PM >>>>Subject: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) >>>> >>>>This idea, just universally raises the entire table. Seldon is what is >>>>needed. >>>>Playing with the coolant temp/MAT, and MAP signals all do the same thing. >>>>There ain't no short cuts, reprogramming done right, takes time. >>>>Bruce >>>> >>>> >>>>>Sounds like there is a lot of pent up UEGO talent out there. Here is an >>>>>idea for a product that about half of us could really use right now >(I'd >>>>>buy two if I could find such an animal). Picture >>>>>this........................................................you are >>>working >>>>>on a GM style MAP based system, that is to be converted to artificial >>>>>aspiration. Perhaps it was originally artificially aspirated, or >perhaps >>>>it >>>>>was not. Once the basic control "system" is in place, you and I are >>>still >>>>>faced with the challenge of remappping the open loop VE tables. >>>Remapping >>>>>the VE's can be done labouriously, through data logging, and post hex >>>>>editing. >>>>> >>>>>What about a control box which would take a UEGO signal, and perform an >>>>>appropriate transform equation, and then export the resultant signal to >>an >>>>>output port which one could connect to the O2 sensor pin of an OEM MAP >>>>>computer. The goal would be to make an artificial setpoint (say >11.5:1 >>>>>A/F ratio) appear to the OEM computer as stoich. If this were possible, >>>>>then one could use the OEM computer to generate BLM's and iteratively >>>(read >>>>>this as safely) reach the perfect "MAP" while driving, or while on a >>>>chassis >>>>>dyno. Imagine, in one afternoon, you could do the work of several days. >>>>>This would even help the normally aspirated guys. >>>>> >>>>>Just food for thought. If anyone comes up with one of these (or knows >>>>where >>>>>I can find one) then let me know, please. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thanks; >>>>>Walt. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Bruce Plecan >>>>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >>>>>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 9:39 PM >>>>>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: Raymond C Drouillard >>>>>>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >>>>>>Date: Saturday, January 30, 1999 11:39 PM >>>>>>Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff >>>>>> >>>>>>Gee, sounds so easy. Hmm, care to whip up a ION?. >>>>>>I certainly hope you weren't making light of Steve's work. >>>>>>Bruce >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I would buy one. Of course, if I happen to "stumble" across a design >>>>>>>before the kit is available, I would simply build it myself. The >>>>>>>circuitry on a UEGO isn't all that complicated. In its most basic >>form, >>>>>>>it is a single op-amp and a few discretes. Add a few more components >>>for >>>>>>>a double-ended power supply, something to shut off the ion pump when >>>it's >>>>>>>not warm, something to regulate the heater, and you have it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ray Drouillard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>On Sat, 30 Jan 1999 14:25:13 -0600 Steve Gorkowski >>>>>>>writes: >>>>>>>>If one would come as a kit for under $200.00 with sensor. How many >>>>>>>>would >>>>>>>>buy the kit ? No sense to design if one if no one was interested in a >>>>>>>>wide O2 meter. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Steve >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Mike Pitts wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any interest? Is this a waste of bandwidth? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "This invention provides an self-calibrating buffer amplifier >>>>>>>>> for a Universal Exhaust Gas Oxygen sensor interface circuit >>>>>>>>> which couples and processes a voltage signal proportional >>>>>>>>> to pumping cell current to a level and reference voltage suitable >>>>>>>>> for input to an A-to-D convertor. The goal of this invention is to >>>>>>>>> increase the accuracy of air-to-fuel ratio control by continually >>>>>>>>> correcting for the effects of offset quantities in the amplifier >>>>>>>>> stage necessary to the interface circuitry. This goal is >>>>>>>>accomplished >>>>>>>>> by an approach which effectively generates and subtracts these >>>>>>>>> offset quantities from the processed signal. " >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://patent.womplex.ibm.com/details?pn=US05211154__ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Mike >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>___________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >>>>>>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at >>http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >>>>>>>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 23:34:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA25987 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:34:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.twd.net (mail.third-wave.com [147.72.92.154]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25983 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:34:38 -0500 Received: from default (inda27.westol.com [147.72.88.42]) by mail.twd.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA11312 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:34:33 -0500 Message-ID: <002f01be4e65$8845ece0$2a584893@default> From: "Curtis Mittong" To: Subject: Chevy ECMs Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:35:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE4E3B.9E9ED940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE4E3B.9E9ED940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a 96 Impala SS with an LT1. I also have a bare LT1 block that I plan to bore and stroke to 409. I already know about all of the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but wondered how much HP will the stock PCM handle with reprogramming and about #52 injectors? Will I be able to do it? If not, what PCM should I use? Curtis ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE4E3B.9E9ED940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a 96 Impala SS with an = LT1.  I also=20 have a bare LT1 block that I plan to bore and stroke to 409.  I = already=20 know about all of the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but wondered how = much HP=20 will the stock PCM handle with reprogramming and about #52 = injectors?  Will=20 I be able to do it?  If not, what PCM should I use?
 
Curtis
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BE4E3B.9E9ED940-- From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 23:40:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26057 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:40:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26053 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:40:49 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA19971 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:40:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007101be4e66$9db26ee0$1f198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: pulse widths and ve questions Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:43:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Clarence L.Snyder To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:17 PM Subject: pulse widths and ve questions >Anyone out there with some real numbers as to pulse width range on port >injected engines? Need to know real life idle vs full throttle numbers. Idle 1.7-2.5msec., WOT 3,000rpm 11ish 6,000 8.5msec Any TPS/MAP accleration enrichment 100% duty cycle possible. THESE NUMBERS ARE VERY GENERALIZED. They happen to be common among several calibrations I've looked at, your results may vary. Bruce >Also, any idea what the VE of an average engine is at idle? >enquiring mind wants to know. >I know the theory behind it - just need some real numbers and I don't >have a scanner to get them with. >TIA > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 23:47:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26238 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:47:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26233 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:47:26 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id UAA16870; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:47:25 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:47:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) In-Reply-To: <000301be4e47$1119ca60$63b34d0c@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Gwyn Reedy wrote: > Take a WWII tank... More info on this, please. From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 23:48:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26277 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:48:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [207.48.84.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26272 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:48:13 -0500 From: thergen@svn.net Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA27510 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:48:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 20:48:04 -0800 (PST) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PWM driver In-Reply-To: <9902019179.AA917900164@icsvfnt.icst.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Interesting article at http://www.penton.com/ed/Pages/magpages/jan1199/ifd/0111id.htm that has a blurb on a pwm DC motor control. It's not directly applicable, but it does go into detail on its intended application. There's also a simple circuit do generate 23v if you want to do a high side driver for your pwm at http://www.penton.com/ed/Pages/magpages/oct1298/pease/1012bp.htm figure 2. Tom On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 rauscher@icst.com wrote: > > > I can throw together a circuit to do this. I've used PWM for DC motor > control circuits before. How about a low side driver, it would be easier > to do. (This is a switch that grounds the motor). > > For input control, just an analog 0-12V for stopped to full on, with > all speeds in-between. > > I'll get it together and scanned hopefully before the week is out. > > Oh, do fuel pumps really draw 15 Amps? Ouch. > > One word of caution thou, PWM is electrically noisy. You will want to > put the controller close to the pump, as not to disrupt every electrical > device in your car. > > BobR. > > > > > > Tom Sharpe wrote: > > >How do you PWM a 15 amp load??? Someone design a circuit please. Can the driver > >board be mase to work?? > > > >TIA TOM > > > ------------------------------ > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Feb 1 23:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA26542 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:56:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA26538 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:56:13 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-166.mtco.com [206.69.130.166]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA15849 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:56:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B685C2.62125794@mtco.com> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 22:57:38 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) References: <001001be4e58$2c058380$5b079ad8@wsherwin> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Walter Sherwin wrote: > Not quite Bruce. Picture the following "Remapping" > procedure............................... > > Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, > etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in > closed loop under all conditions. Basically, you would now have a VE driven > cal, with closed loop correction capability. But, instead of "learning" > towards stoich, the system would learn towards a safe setpoint (of say > 11.5:1) defined by the electronic gizmo I had proposed. > >> If we are learning, let's learn 11.5:1 < 10" vacuum (MAP???) stoich at 15"+ vacuum (could learn lean burn also) and a straight line between them. Come up with "standard" correction factors for H20 (warm up) and Air Temp and you're done. It's not really that simple, but close..... Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 00:01:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26642 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:01:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26637 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:01:33 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id VAA32102; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:01:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:01:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) In-Reply-To: <36B65C43.113FC76C@grolen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > Lotsa mechanics have seen overheated TCs that have become > discolored. Used to see many mopar high stall TCs in copcars with the reman paint burnt off in the center, like a donut hole... > Don't know many details about the Chrysler setup,(just some old > stories) but auto trans' TC gets fluid from the transmission, and when > there's a heavy load applied, there's a lot of heat generation going > on there. > Dodge transmissions pretty heavily, although there seem to be a few > variations on that one. > Yes, they played lotsa games with the idea. Some of the convertors were filled and sealed, then they gave that one up. Some were tied into the engine oil system rather than the trans. Some used a 4 speed trans that was full synchro and/or slickshifted. They even had some that were used with hemi V8s. Great for turning gasoline into hot oil ;-) From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 00:02:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26656 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:02:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26652 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:02:13 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA32498 for mail_from ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:02:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:02:11 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Smooth strategy) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:57:53 -0500 "Gwyn Reedy" writes: >>Take a WWII tank or a 40's Chrysler product with 'fluid drive' and you >have >>a fluid coupling with a standard transmission. >> >>Gwyn Reedy >>Brandon, Florida >>mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com Early four speed Hydra Matics (up to '56) (Also the boxes which got B&M hydro started, and which were made famous by folks like Big John Mazmanian & his Hemi-Willys coupe in the old A-Gas NHRA class) used a two element fluid coupling, which only carried about 45% of the torque in the top two gears. The post '56 four speed H-M units had a second, smaller fluid coupling as well as the main one. Forget exactly what it did. Greg > >Mercedes also uses it in their Unimog 4X4 and 6X6 trucks. > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 00:15:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA26939 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:15:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA26935 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:15:12 -0500 Received: from computer (ts031d10.lax-ca.concentric.net [206.173.193.22]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA01642 for ; Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:15:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: pulse widths and ve questions Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:15:28 -0800 Message-ID: <000001be4e6b$0c34d9d0$16c1adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <36B67840.63A7@ibm.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Pulse width's typically range from 800 usec to 18-19 msec. Ward -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Clarence L.Snyder Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 8:00 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: pulse widths and ve questions Anyone out there with some real numbers as to pulse width range on port injected engines? Need to know real life idle vs full throttle numbers. Also, any idea what the VE of an average engine is at idle? enquiring mind wants to know. I know the theory behind it - just need some real numbers and I don't have a scanner to get them with. TIA From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 00:33:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27234 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:33:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from axis (root@axis.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27229 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:33:02 -0500 Received: from mainpc (d46.jeack.com.au [203.24.125.209]) by axis (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA10358 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:34:04 GMT Message-ID: <00ef01be4e6e$2be43de0$d17d18cb@mainpc> From: "Ross Myers" To: Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:37:48 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi all, > I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these >are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even >as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the >screen and sensor. >Some of us race people are on tight budgets! >PAUL I know what you are saying Paul, but my point was if they felt the need for a 32bit micro to run the thing something must be tricky. Regards Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 00:46:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27612 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:46:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27607 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:46:19 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id AAA19293 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:45:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00f801be4e6f$9825c0e0$1f198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:48:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sharpe To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:09 AM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Tell ya what over at syty they have programmer, and a complete editor how about just telling me what you think needs defeated to do this. Then what code changes to keep it closed loop, and have enough range for your mixture corrections. I'd like to see how you treat the IAC. I'm not saying it can't be done, but man whatta bunch of work. Bruce >Walter Sherwin wrote: >> Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, >> etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in >> closed loop under all conditions. > It's not really that simple, but close..... Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 00:54:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA27845 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:54:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA27841 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:54:24 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id AAA25828 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:54:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010f01be4e70$e37434e0$1f198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:57:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Ross Myers To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:46 AM Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff My favorite quote, from a very good programmer, "we throw code at it till it works". Bruce > >> I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these >>are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even >>as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the >>screen and sensor. >>Some of us race people are on tight budgets! >>PAUL >I know what you are saying Paul, but my point was if they felt the need for >a 32bit micro to run the thing something must be tricky. >Regards >Ross Myers From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 01:29:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA28533 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:29:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA28528 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:29:56 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-13.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id BAA17434 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:29:55 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <019501be4e75$d82fbd20$1f198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 01:32:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0192_01BE4E4B.EEAA3B40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0192_01BE4E4B.EEAA3B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Mittong To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu = Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:48 PM Subject: Chevy ECMs =20 52x8=3D416 416lbs/hr .5lbs/HP 832HP. That's one heck of an engine, or oops on the math. Bruce =20 =20 I have a 96 Impala SS with an LT1. I also have a bare LT1 block = that I plan to bore and stroke to 409. I already know about all of the = mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but wondered how much HP will the stock = PCM handle with reprogramming and about #52 injectors? Will I be able = to do it? If not, what PCM should I use? Curtis ------=_NextPart_000_0192_01BE4E4B.EEAA3B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Curtis Mittong <poohbear@twd.net>
To: = diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu=20 <diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu>
Date:=20 Monday, February 01, 1999 11:48 PM
Subject: Chevy=20 ECMs
 
52x8=3D416   =20 416lbs/hr     .5lbs/HP    =20 832HP.
That's one heck of an engine, or = oops on the=20 math.
Bruce

I have a 96 Impala SS with an = LT1.  I=20 also have a bare LT1 block that I plan to bore and stroke to = 409.  I=20 already know about all of the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but = wondered=20 how much HP will the stock PCM handle with reprogramming and about = #52=20 injectors?  Will I be able to do it?  If not, what PCM = should I=20 use?
Curtis
------=_NextPart_000_0192_01BE4E4B.EEAA3B40-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 06:35:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA31008 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:35:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA31004 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:35:07 -0500 Received: from default ([12.77.138.113]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990202113506.ENDU8892@default> for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:35:06 +0000 From: "Gwyn Reedy" To: Subject: RE: Smooth strategy) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:30:13 -0500 Message-ID: <000701be4e9f$66834c80$718a4d0c@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In 1956 the Hydra-matic got the second fluid coupling. Oldsmobile called it 'Jet-a-way' Hydramatic. It was internal to the transmission and replaced the bands for the 2-3 shift. Instead of clamping (or releasing)the band, they just filled or emptied the small coupling. I remember it well, although I might have the 2-3 shift thing wrong. Something else tells me that the coupling got 'used' twice during a complete shift sequence. Purpose was to add smoothness to the shifts. TV ads touted the engineering skill required to fill or empty the coupling in just one second. Was a high school kid at the time and devoured car magazines. The 56 Olds had a one second slower 0-60 time than the 55, yet had about 25 more horsepower. Thus we figured the extra fluid coupling was costing between 1 to 2 seconds. There were kids in my class whose families had both 55 and 56 models, so it got discussed a lot. Gwyn Reedy Brandon, Florida mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Greg > Hermann > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 12:02 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Smooth strategy) > > > >On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:57:53 -0500 "Gwyn Reedy" writes: > >>Take a WWII tank or a 40's Chrysler product with 'fluid drive' and you > >have > >>a fluid coupling with a standard transmission. > >> > >>Gwyn Reedy > >>Brandon, Florida > >>mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com > > Early four speed Hydra Matics (up to '56) (Also the boxes which got B&M > hydro started, and which were made famous by folks like Big John Mazmanian > & his Hemi-Willys coupe in the old A-Gas NHRA class) used a two element > fluid coupling, which only carried about 45% of the torque in the top two > gears. The post '56 four speed H-M units had a second, smaller fluid > coupling as well as the main one. Forget exactly what it did. > > Greg > > > >Mercedes also uses it in their Unimog 4X4 and 6X6 trucks. > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 06:35:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA31015 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:35:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA31011 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:35:10 -0500 Received: from default ([12.77.138.113]) by mtiwmhc05.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990202113509.ENEA8892@default> for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:35:09 +0000 From: "Gwyn Reedy" To: Subject: RE: TC's and manual trans Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 06:30:17 -0500 Message-ID: <000801be4e9f$686a0de0$718a4d0c@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No substantial info - I only reference a WWII song (will get the name and band if you really want it) about being inducted into the Army. Rhymes about saluting and kp etc. One of the lines is ,"they give you a tank with fluid drive." Had many a ride in a 1950 Dodge (plus or minus a year) with fluid drive. Some woman at the church used to pick me up in the summer to go to vacation church school. I was about 8 or 9 years old and even then it bothered me to see her start out in high gear. You had to use the clutch to stop, but when ready to move, she just let out the clutch and pressed the accelerator. Very slow acceleration. If you wanted to go faster (relative term in a 6 cyl flathead) you could row through all the gears. I presume this was a derivative of what was put into the tanks in wartime production. Hydra-Matic came out before the war (1938?) but not sure if any other automatic or semi-automatic did. I was under the impression that Hydra-Matics were put into tanks as well. Maybe that was what the song was referring to and they were just using 'fluid drive' to get a rhyme. Drifting even farther off topic... It is interesting to study automotive history regarding the introduction of new engineering features into production vehicles. But looking at that alone is misleading. If you look at racing or aircraft development, the production auto engineering looks quite retarded. Guess that is what comes from having to meet a budget. An example - there was recently a discussion about turbocharging on the early 60's Corvair and Olds 215 engine. From the '90s that sounds advanced. Trouble is aircraft engines had been turbocharged for decades before - and compound supercharged as well (turbo and mechanical). Gwyn Reedy Brandon, Florida mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Jim Davies > Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:47 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) > > > > > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Gwyn Reedy wrote: > > > Take a WWII tank... > > More info on this, please. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 07:50:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA31957 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailgate.mccain.ca (mailgate.mccain.ca [198.164.100.102]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA31953 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:50:21 -0500 Received: by mffvlexc1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id <1CSNXG0G>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:55:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: "BUTLER, Tom" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:55:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Don't recall whatinell they called it, but for a while Porsche used a > fluid > coupling AND a vacuum operated clutch (which was triggered by a > microswitch > on the manual shift lever) in front of a manual tranny in the 911's. The > fluid coupling ran in engine oil, IIRC. (A fluid coupling does not > multiply > torque, has only two elements, called pump and turbine.) > > Easiest way to think of how one works (at least for me) is to think of a > centrifugal pump driving a centrifugal turbine--and then eliminate the two > housings, and all the attendant weight and inefficiencies, by just > wrapping > the impeller and turbine wheels into a taurus shape, and mounting them > face > to face. > > Regards, Greg > [BUTLER, Tom] These were also fairly common in VW's From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 07:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA31987 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:53:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA31983 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:53:53 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-193.nordson.com [207.206.59.193]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA00414 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:53:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004b01be4eaa$f6de1930$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:52:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The first turbocharged engine was a stationary power plant engine in 1905 by Brown Boveri and Co., predecessor to the current ABB. Gary Derian > >Drifting even farther off topic... It is interesting to study automotive >history regarding the introduction of new engineering features into >production vehicles. But looking at that alone is misleading. If you look at >racing or aircraft development, the production auto engineering looks quite >retarded. Guess that is what comes from having to meet a budget. An >example - there was recently a discussion about turbocharging on the early >60's Corvair and Olds 215 engine. From the '90s that sounds advanced. >Trouble is aircraft engines had been turbocharged for decades before - and >compound supercharged as well (turbo and mechanical). > >Gwyn Reedy >Brandon, Florida From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 08:07:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA32253 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:07:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtprtp.nortel.com (smtprtp.nortel.com [192.122.117.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA32248 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:07:21 -0500 Received: from zrtpd004.us.nortel.com (actually nrtpd004) by smtprtp.nortel.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:07:06 -0500 Received: by zrtpd004.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:07:05 -0500 Message-ID: <7985004A6A01D21197320000F80837979F39DE@zbvwd000.ca.nortel.com> From: "Ernst Denbroeder" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Love This Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:07:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I > >can hear the relay clicking away.. > >Shannen > > I believe it's (the actual switching) done with an SCR, but that is coming > from a total klutz in terms of electronics. > Close... :) SCR's are used for AC applications. An SCR relys on the 0V crossing to turn off. And a TRIAC is two SCR's in parallel (sort of). :) Ernst. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 08:08:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA32284 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA32280 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:02 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-193.nordson.com [207.206.59.193]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA02838 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005e01be4eac$f6b39be0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:06:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A torque converter must have at least three elements. The extra torque comes from the reaction at the stator. Its the hydraulic equivalent to a lever and fulcrum where the extra force comes from the fulcrum. A torque converter is not more efficient than a fluid coupling but it does multiply torque when it is slipping adding an extra gear for starts. At low slippage (cruise conditions) the stator freewheels and a torque converter reverts to a fluid coupling. A 4 or 5 element converter would be the equivalent of a compound lever. Gary Derian >Efficiency is much higher with a torque converter. Very few torque >converters were two element, as the "stator", analogous to the >multiplier, was so much more effective with the curved blades. Instead >of the oil coming off the turbine trying to slow down the impeller, it >is redirected to the turbine, giving off more of it's energy the second >time round. >The ford-o-matic was one of the first to use a three member TQ, along >with later Powerglides,torque-flytes and cruise-o-matics.. >Lockup TQs are nothing new - Studebaker used a 4 member TQ in the late >50s or early sixties with a direct drive clutch.The Dynaflow used a 4 >member TQ - or twin turbine converter.Early PowerFlytes were also 4 >unit. Some of these used a variable pitch turbine. The early Powerglide >and Turboglide used 5 member converters - two pumps, two stators, and >one turbine. >Just a "short" history and description of the Torque converter. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 08:14:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA32469 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:14:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.49]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA32465 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:14:05 -0500 Received: from default (sdn-ar-002malexiP036.dialsprint.net [168.191.58.148]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA09933 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 05:14:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <003501be4ead$5d5346c0$943abfa8@default> From: "Curt Platteborze" To: Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:10:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE4E83.7370B0C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE4E83.7370B0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Curtis, The GM PCM will handle up to 30 LB injectors, I have heard a few 36 LB = programs but with some problems running rich. I assume you will be running a blower or NOS to get up over the 800 HP = mark. I am running two sets of injectors on a custom intake manifold on my 95. = I plan to install the complete Electromotive system soon with the Crank = trigger set up as well. Hope this helps. Curt -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Mittong To: diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu = Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:48 PM Subject: Chevy ECMs =20 =20 I have a 96 Impala SS with an LT1. I also have a bare LT1 block = that I plan to bore and stroke to 409. I already know about all of the = mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but wondered how much HP will the stock = PCM handle with reprogramming and about #52 injectors? Will I be able = to do it? If not, what PCM should I use? =20 Curtis ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE4E83.7370B0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Curtis,
 
The GM PCM will handle up to 30 LB injectors, I have = heard a=20 few 36 LB programs but with some problems running rich.
 
I assume you will be running a blower or NOS to get = up over=20 the 800 HP mark.
 
I am running two sets of injectors on a custom = intake manifold=20 on my 95. I plan to install the complete Electromotive system soon with = the=20 Crank trigger set up as well.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Curt
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Curtis Mittong <poohbear@twd.net>
To: = diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu=20 <diy_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio= -state.edu>
Date:=20 Monday, February 01, 1999 11:48 PM
Subject: Chevy=20 ECMs

I have a 96 Impala SS with an = LT1.  I=20 also have a bare LT1 block that I plan to bore and stroke to = 409.  I=20 already know about all of the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but = wondered=20 how much HP will the stock PCM handle with reprogramming and about = #52=20 injectors?  Will I be able to do it?  If not, what PCM = should I=20 use?
 
Curtis
------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BE4E83.7370B0C0-- From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 08:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA32646 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:20:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icst.icst.com (icst.icst.com [12.3.42.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA32642 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:20:14 -0500 From: rauscher@icst.com Received: from icsvfnt.icst.com (icsvfnt.icst.com [199.183.101.2]) by icst.icst.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA18926 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:07:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by icsvfnt.icst.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA917961784; Tue, 02 Feb 99 08:23:07 -0500 Message-Id: <9902029179.AA917961784@icsvfnt.icst.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 99 08:15:38 -0500 To: Subject: Re: PWM driver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Are you sure you don't have an EE or something , you scored a direct hit on this one! BobR. Stay tuned for simple/effective circuit... Bruce wrote: >Might think about using two IRFZ20's >The surge on is big. I think on a TRex pump we went to 25A fuses, once. >I'm no EE, but from what I looked at ganging some Power MOSFETs on the >output looked like the hot setup, then add or minus as ya want >Bruce From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 08:31:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00201 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:31:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA00197 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:31:15 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id WPQKa06037 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:29:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:29:45 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yup, good approach Bruce, I bet Doc helped ya.. <| 8~) While a lot depends on how radical the engine is, if it is naturally aspirated, you should prolly start with ~32 #ers and take some vital signs under load.. Th GM ECM will be easier to tune with 32's than 52's. 32x8=256lbs/hr >> CSH Calcs> ==>> 512HP 39x8 312lbs/hr >> CSH Calcs> ==>> 624HP Mike V > 52x8=416 416lbs/hr .5lbs/HP 832HP. > That's one heck of an engine, or oops on the math. > Bruce >> I have a 96 Impala SS with an LT1. I also have a bare LT1 block >> that I plan to bore and stroke to 409. I already know about all of >> the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but wondered how much HP will >> the stock PCM handle with reprogramming and about #52 injectors? >> Will I be able to do it? If not, what PCM should I use? >> Curtis From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 08:59:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA00993 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:59:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cbgw1.lucent.com (cbgw1.lucent.com [207.24.196.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA00989 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:59:39 -0500 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com by cbig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id IAA11181; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:56:50 -0500 Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id IAA22447; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:58:52 -0500 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id IAA22440; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:58:51 -0500 Message-ID: <36B7053C.C814568F@lucent.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:01:32 -0500 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs References: <002f01be4e65$8845ece0$2a584893@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Curtis, The 96 PCM is OBD-II compliant. It is much more sensative to changes than the older units. It will set a lot of error codes if you make engine changes. A 94-95 PCM (16188051)from any LT1 will plug into your wiring harness and run the engine. It will not have OBD-II and not use the aftercat O2 sensors. Be sure to change the Knock sensor in the engine to match the original PCM application. Some people have had success changing the Knock module in the PCM to the one from the original PCM and not changing the KS. Ken > Curtis Mittong wrote: > > I have a 96 Impala SS with an LT1. I also have a bare LT1 > block that I plan to bore and stroke to 409. I already > know about all of the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but > wondered how much HP will the stock PCM handle with > reprogramming and about #52 injectors? Will I be able to > do it? If not, what PCM should I use? > > Curtis From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 10:15:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA02558 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:15:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02554 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:15:12 -0500 From: FHPREMACH@aol.com Received: from FHPREMACH@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id MZQIa03211 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:13:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <9ae6a319.36b71618@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:13:28 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Smooth strategy) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 2/1/99 7:59:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, cosmic.ray@juno.com writes: << On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:57:53 -0500 "Gwyn Reedy" writes: >Take a WWII tank or a 40's Chrysler product with 'fluid drive' and you have >a fluid coupling with a standard transmission. > >Gwyn Reedy >Brandon, Florida >mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com Mercedes also uses it in their Unimog 4X4 and 6X6 trucks. >> Yes, but why not go for a more violent type, and build a Clutchflite, or does anyone recall the old clutch conversions for Torqueflites? Kind of a poor mans Lenco. manual valve body and no missed shifts. They made versions of it in TH400 too. Fred From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 10:40:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA02968 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:40:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA02964 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:40:40 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-97.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.97]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA112874 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:40:35 GMT Message-ID: <36B71C96.113C@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:41:10 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: <005e01be4eac$f6b39be0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gary Derian wrote: > > A torque converter must have at least three elements. The extra torque > comes from the reaction at the stator. Its the hydraulic equivalent to a > lever and fulcrum where the extra force comes from the fulcrum. A torque > converter is not more efficient than a fluid coupling but it does multiply > torque when it is slipping adding an extra gear for starts. At low slippage > (cruise conditions) the stator freewheels and a torque converter reverts to > a fluid coupling. A 4 or 5 element converter would be the equivalent of a > compound lever. > > Gary Derian Reference Wm Crouse - Automotive mechanics- fifth edition - Webster/Mc Graw Hill. Torque converters with only 2 elements DID exist. The definitive difference between a fluid coupling and a TC is the shape of the vanes. Note, a 3 element fluid coupling also existed. You took auto mechanics in high school - I taught it :} > > > >Efficiency is much higher with a torque converter. Very few torque > >converters were two element, as the "stator", analogous to the > >multiplier, was so much more effective with the curved blades. Instead > >of the oil coming off the turbine trying to slow down the impeller, it > >is redirected to the turbine, giving off more of it's energy the second > >time round. > >The ford-o-matic was one of the first to use a three member TQ, along > >with later Powerglides,torque-flytes and cruise-o-matics.. > >Lockup TQs are nothing new - Studebaker used a 4 member TQ in the late > >50s or early sixties with a direct drive clutch.The Dynaflow used a 4 > >member TQ - or twin turbine converter.Early PowerFlytes were also 4 > >unit. Some of these used a variable pitch turbine. The early Powerglide > >and Turboglide used 5 member converters - two pumps, two stators, and > >one turbine. > >Just a "short" history and description of the Torque converter. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 10:42:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03063 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:42:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03059 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:42:23 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-97.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.97]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA37132 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:42:21 GMT Message-ID: <36B71D02.4AD2@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:42:58 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Love This References: <7985004A6A01D21197320000F80837979F39DE@zbvwd000.ca.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ernst Denbroeder wrote: > > > >That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I > > >can hear the relay clicking away.. > > >Shannen > > > > I believe it's (the actual switching) done with an SCR, but that is coming > > from a total klutz in terms of electronics. > > > Close... :) SCR's are used for AC applications. An SCR relys on > the 0V crossing to turn off. And a TRIAC is two SCR's in parallel (sort > of). :) > > Ernst. Also used (with commutation circuit) on DC controllers like the GE EV1 motor controller used on forklifts and some electric cars. REAL tricky getting the suckers to turn off though! From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 10:42:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03098 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:42:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03093 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:42:57 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-25.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.43]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA27537 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:42:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00b801be4ec3$275936e0$2b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: PWM driver Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:46:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: rauscher@icst.com To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:39 AM Subject: Re: PWM driver Actually was Doc's idea (weird cackling laugh in background) Bruce Doc just has gone round the bend, since shoveling snow out of the kitchen... Which brings up the whole matter of the last incident... >Are you sure you don't have an EE or something , you scored >a direct hit on this one! >BobR. >Stay tuned for simple/effective circuit... >Bruce wrote: >>Might think about using two IRFZ20's >>The surge on is big. I think on a TRex pump we went to 25A fuses, once. >>I'm no EE, but from what I looked at ganging some Power MOSFETs on the >>output looked like the hot setup, then add or minus as ya want >>Bruce From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 10:49:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03330 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:49:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03325 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:49:50 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-25.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.43]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA05590 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:49:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c301be4ec4$1d0b7800$2b198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:53:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 5:26 PM Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length Brutual snippage >> We wanted a box with knobs on it. that controls the basic fuel >>curve. The digital stuff is a nightmare. Magnesium engines, steel >>frames, aluminum do-dads, high RF fields from radios, lots of emi >>from magneto's, (to really screw up a ecm, watch what a MSD >>7AL2 multi-spark does using solid core wires), but the topper is >>when some of these village-idiots use a garden tractor battery to >>try starting a 13:1 compression motor! >> When we went to a basic analog system, 99.99999% of the >>problems went away. (No processor resets, endless loops, watch->>dog timers, etc..etc..). >> Going to a speed-density system, (TPS and Tach), sequential->>double fire, we could use pot to trim overall curve, idle, mid, top >>end. Adding a MAP gave us the additional curve for the boost >>correction fuel. I can't go into schematics without giving up too >>many secrets, but I'll try to answer questions. (Hope I answered >>some of your questions Bruce). >> Tim. Would it be safe to say you used 555's?. Would asking what for Op-Amps be OK?. Just 4 pots?. Bruce From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 10:57:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA03479 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:57:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA03474 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:57:05 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id HAA30308; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:56:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:56:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Smooth strategy) In-Reply-To: <000701be4e9f$66834c80$718a4d0c@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Gwyn Reedy wrote: > Something else tells me that the coupling got 'used' twice during a complete > shift sequence. Purpose was to add smoothness to the shifts. TV ads touted > the engineering skill required to fill or empty the coupling in just one > second. > It always seemed to be "in just one block" The "engineering skill" was infact a variable displacement vane pump. This fine piece of engineering returned in the TH125 and 700R4 in the 1980s. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 11:06:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03796 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:06:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtprtp.nortel.com (smtprtp.nortel.com [192.122.117.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA03791 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:06:19 -0500 Received: from zrtpd004.us.nortel.com (actually nrtpd004) by smtprtp.nortel.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:05:06 -0500 Received: by zrtpd004.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:05:07 -0500 Message-ID: <7985004A6A01D21197320000F80837979F39E3@zbvwd000.ca.nortel.com> From: "Ernst Denbroeder" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Chevy ECMs Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:05:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Curious... Is the 96 PCM a pre 96 with additional circuitry or is it a ground up redesign? Ernst. > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Kelly [SMTP:kenkelly@lucent.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:02 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs > > Curtis, > The 96 PCM is OBD-II compliant. It is much more sensative > to changes than the older units. It will set a lot of error > codes if you make engine changes. A 94-95 PCM (16188051)from > any LT1 will plug into your wiring harness and run the > engine. It will not have OBD-II and not use the aftercat O2 > sensors. Be sure to change the Knock sensor in the engine to > match the original PCM application. Some people have had > success changing the Knock module in the PCM to the one from > the original PCM and not changing the KS. > > Ken > > > Curtis Mittong wrote: > > > > I have a 96 Impala SS with an LT1. I also have a bare LT1 > > block that I plan to bore and stroke to 409. I already > > know about all of the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but > > wondered how much HP will the stock PCM handle with > > reprogramming and about #52 injectors? Will I be able to > > do it? If not, what PCM should I use? > > > > Curtis From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 11:08:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA03864 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:08:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03859 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:08:20 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id KAA06714; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:09:03 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma006645; Tue, 2 Feb 99 10:08:04 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA13869; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:07:21 -0600 Message-ID: <36B72231.77F13B31@arm.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 10:05:05 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Tim Drury article Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Several people have written me asking about the distributorless ignition article that Tim Drury wrote. There is a pointer to it on the DIY_EFI page. The article has been unavailable for some time now. Does anyone know the wherabouts of either Tim or his article? --steve From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 11:36:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA04738 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:36:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.problem.org (trends-gw.problem.com [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04734 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:36:33 -0500 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m107irm-0000HJC; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:39:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:39:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: from "BUTLER, Tom" at Feb 2, 99 08:55:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Don't recall whatinell they called it, but for a while Porsche used a > > fluid > > coupling AND a vacuum operated clutch (which was triggered by a > > microswitch > > on the manual shift lever) in front of a manual tranny in the 911's. The > > fluid coupling ran in engine oil, IIRC. (A fluid coupling does not > > multiply > > torque, has only two elements, called pump and turbine.) TipTronic Clive From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 12:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06129 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:20:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06124 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:20:36 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-082.nordson.com [207.206.59.82]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA05350 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:19:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01cd01be4ed0$199d5ce0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:18:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am defining a torque converter as a device that multiplies torque. If there are only 2 elements, where does the torque multiplication come from? If one element is attached to the engine and the second element is attached to the transmission, there is no way the second element can have more torque than the first. This two element thing you are describing may be a very nice device and it may have been called a torque converter but it cannot multiply torque. For that, you need a reaction member. I never took auto mechanics in high school. Gary Derian >Gary Derian wrote: >> >> A torque converter must have at least three elements. The extra torque >> comes from the reaction at the stator. Its the hydraulic equivalent to a >> lever and fulcrum where the extra force comes from the fulcrum. A torque >> converter is not more efficient than a fluid coupling but it does multiply >> torque when it is slipping adding an extra gear for starts. At low slippage >> (cruise conditions) the stator freewheels and a torque converter reverts to >> a fluid coupling. A 4 or 5 element converter would be the equivalent of a >> compound lever. > >Reference Wm Crouse - Automotive mechanics- fifth edition - Webster/Mc >Graw Hill. >Torque converters with only 2 elements DID exist. The definitive >difference between a fluid coupling and a TC is the shape of the vanes. >Note, a 3 element fluid coupling also existed. > >You took auto mechanics in high school - I taught it :} From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 12:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06328 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:31:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtprich.nortel.com (smtprich.nortel.com [192.135.215.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06323 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:31:54 -0500 Received: from zrtpd004.us.nortel.com (actually nrtpd004) by smtprich.nortel.com; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:31:37 -0600 Received: by zrtpd004.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:31:33 -0500 Message-ID: <7985004A6A01D21197320000F80837979F39E7@zbvwd000.ca.nortel.com> From: "Ernst Denbroeder" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Love This Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:31:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Also used (with commutation circuit) on DC controllers like the GE EV1 > motor controller used on forklifts and some electric cars. REAL tricky > getting the suckers to turn off though! > Interesting... never thought of an SCR in that context before. Although I can see how you'd use it in that application. Ernst. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 12:33:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA06363 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:33:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.problem.org (trends-gw.problem.com [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA06359 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:33:23 -0500 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m107jko-0000HJC; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:36:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:36:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: from "JRECPA@aol.com" at Feb 1, 99 07:03:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > << Forgetting for the moment about the specific machiningg, adapters, etc that > would be required to physically hook it up, is it possible or feasible > to make it work outside of an automatic trans? Is it's hydraulic fluid > supply sealed inside the convertor? Could you fill the convertor and > seal it and expect it to work for very long or does it need a continuous > flow of fluid for cooling? If so, would pressure need to be modulated > for any reason or does it just need a continuous flow? there are industrial units that operate as dry stand alone selealed units you could mount it sealed and have it enclosed by a box containinig some cooling liquid that is circulated though a rad etc. > you should expect to provide some cooling fluid flow depending on > the stall speed and if you will have a lockup converter you will need > to control that with fluid pressure. > > Your best bet is to take a front pump and converter from a donor > tranmission. maybe one with a tcc too the Ford AOD has a solid shaft through the centre that is used as lock drive for lockup mode, it inserts into splines machined into the converter housing Clive > > James > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 13:01:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07306 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:01:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM [129.239.31.106]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07301 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:01:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199902021801.NAA07301@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR784RC>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:01:35 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:57:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length > Massive Brutal snippage > Would it be safe to say you used 555's?. > Would asking what for Op-Amps be OK?. > Just 4 pots?. > Bruce > Sorry, no 555's in sight. The box is broke up into two basic parts. One for the injector timing, and the other for duty-cycle (pulse width for you digital types). Injector timing is done by converting the input pulses from the coil (freq.) into a dc voltage. Next step is using a dc-freq. converter (PLL) to set the rep. rate for the inj. timing. I found that when I run the inj. at approx. 8% faster than what the engine is running, the bottom end and mid range is fantastic! If it is set to 1:1, it stumbles or hesitates. I can momentarily speed up the freq. of the inj., and/or increase the duty-cycle for an accel. pump action, but it's not the same. An Accel pump seems to kill the off idle transition in a port inj. design. I can also slow down the freq. of the inj. (to eng. freq.) to lean out the idle if the pulse width gets to narrow. (Remember we are using anywhere from 32 lb/hr to 60 lb/hr, low impedance injectors). The TPS input goes thru different op-amps that the gain is controlled by the engine freq, thus the different ranges, idle, mid, and top or wide open. Did I help at all, Bruce? Tim From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 13:10:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07547 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:10:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07543 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:10:32 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1CZ57GZ0>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:10:20 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Love This Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:10:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu PWM of cooling fans is done almost exactly the same way injectors are fired, more or less duty cycle to a transistor. > -----Original Message----- > From: Clarence L.Snyder [SMTP:clare.snyder.on.ca@ibm.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:43 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Love This > > Ernst Denbroeder wrote: > > > > > >That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I > > > >can hear the relay clicking away.. > > > >Shannen > > > > > > I believe it's (the actual switching) done with an SCR, but that is > coming > > > from a total klutz in terms of electronics. > > > > > Close... :) SCR's are used for AC applications. An SCR relys > on > > the 0V crossing to turn off. And a TRIAC is two SCR's in parallel (sort > > of). :) > > > > Ernst. > Also used (with commutation circuit) on DC controllers like the GE EV1 > motor controller used on forklifts and some electric cars. REAL tricky > getting the suckers to turn off though! From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 13:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA07863 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:22:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.problem.org (trends-gw.problem.com [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07859 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:22:03 -0500 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m107kVt-0000HDC; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:25:29 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:25:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: from "Greg Hermann" at Feb 1, 99 02:22:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > > The D port is from what "chev" has done with the exhaust port, > >probably some else did it first, it's just they are so common...... > >Bruce > > IIRC, the exhaust ports on the Ford 427 FE "cammer" were the first to be D > shaped---with the flat on the short side of the curve. In other words, > round, except for where the flow would separate anywayz. Believe it was > claimed to help keep velocity up, and more importantly, turbulence down. actually what it does is slow the flow at the bottom of the port more than the flow at the top this helps the gases turn the corner Clive > > Regards, Greg > > >> Thanks for all the inputs.....Tim. > >> > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 13:53:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA08605 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:53:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (216-064-096-005.inaddr.vitts.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA08601 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:53:17 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:56:40 -0500 Received: from [205.247.202.68] by grolen.com id 6e8b0.wrk; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:52:22 EDT Message-ID: <36B74866.75D40DE@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:48:07 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PWM driver References: <00b801be4ec3$275936e0$2b198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: rauscher@icst.com > To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:39 AM > Subject: Re: PWM driver > > Actually was Doc's idea (weird cackling laugh in background) > Bruce Doc just has gone round the bend, since shoveling snow > out of the kitchen... Which brings up the whole matter > of the last incident... > Another lesson in applied physics? Shannen > >Are you sure you don't have an EE or something , you scored > >a direct hit on this one! > >BobR. > >Stay tuned for simple/effective circuit... > >Bruce wrote: > >>Might think about using two IRFZ20's > >>The surge on is big. I think on a TRex pump we went to 25A fuses, once. > >>I'm no EE, but from what I looked at ganging some Power MOSFETs on the > >>output looked like the hot setup, then add or minus as ya want > >>Bruce From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 15:13:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09760 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:13:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09756 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:13:58 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.7]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA13470 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:13:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009a01be4ee9$029f66a0$07633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:17:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 1:27 PM Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length > Massive Brutal snippage > >Injector timing is done by converting the input pulses from the coil (freq.) >into a dc voltage. Next step is using a dc-freq. converter (PLL) to set the >rep. rate for the inj. timing. I found that when I run the inj. at approx. >8% faster than what the engine is running, the bottom end and mid range is >fantastic! If it is set to 1:1, it stumbles or hesitates. I can >momentarily speed up the freq. of the inj., and/or increase the duty-cycle >for an accel. pump action, but it's not the same. An Accel pump seems to >kill the off idle transition in a port inj. design. I can also slow down >the freq. of the inj. (to eng. freq.) to lean out the idle if the pulse >width gets to narrow. (Remember we are using anywhere from 32 lb/hr to 60 >lb/hr, low impedance injectors). >The TPS input goes thru different op-amps that the gain is controlled by the >engine freq, thus the different ranges, idle, mid, and top or wide open. >Did I help at all, Bruce? Yep, but Doc, and Grumpy's eyes have glazed over. This Phased Locked Loop Stuff is like shuttle trajectory calculations, for them. OK, us........ Bruce >Tim > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 15:16:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA09798 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:16:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09794 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:16:56 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.7]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA17172 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:16:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: V-8 Datsun 240/260 owners sorry no DIY_EFI yet Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:20:04 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If you own one of these SBC conversions, please e-mail me, nacelp@bright.net Bruce From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 15:32:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10136 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:32:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.centuryinter.net (mail2.centuryinter.net [209.142.136.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10132 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:32:06 -0500 Received: from cen16176.centuryinter.net (ppp071.av.centuryinter.net [209.142.163.85]) by mail2.centuryinter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA16379 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:32:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990202143324.006c2fa4@mail.ot.centuryinter.net> X-Sender: cen16176@mail.ot.centuryinter.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:33:24 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Clarence Wood Subject: RE: Love This In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Could you, or someone, please explain PWM (assuming that PWM=Pulse Width Modulation) of cooling fans? I thought that cooling fans worked on an on/off system. Under what conditions would you want PWM control, and what is the pulse width that is being modulated? You guys really know how to humble a guy; I thought I had a lock on cooling fans!(:< Clarence At 12:10 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: >PWM of cooling fans is done almost exactly the same way injectors are fired, >more or less duty cycle to a transistor. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Clarence L.Snyder [SMTP:clare.snyder.on.ca@ibm.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:43 AM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re: Love This >> >> Ernst Denbroeder wrote: >> > >> > > >That's a good question. How do they PWM the coolant fans? I know I >> > > >can hear the relay clicking away.. >> > > >Shannen >> > > >> > > I believe it's (the actual switching) done with an SCR, but that is >> coming >> > > from a total klutz in terms of electronics. >> > > >> > Close... :) SCR's are used for AC applications. An SCR relys >> on >> > the 0V crossing to turn off. And a TRIAC is two SCR's in parallel (sort >> > of). :) >> > >> > Ernst. >> Also used (with commutation circuit) on DC controllers like the GE EV1 >> motor controller used on forklifts and some electric cars. REAL tricky >> getting the suckers to turn off though! > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 15:45:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA10562 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:45:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icst.icst.com (icst.icst.com [12.3.42.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA10558 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:45:21 -0500 From: rauscher@icst.com Received: from icsvfnt.icst.com (icsvfnt.icst.com [199.183.101.2]) by icst.icst.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA21540 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:32:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by icsvfnt.icst.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA917988420; Tue, 02 Feb 99 15:48:09 -0500 Message-Id: <9902029179.AA917988420@icsvfnt.icst.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 99 14:15:07 -0500 To: Subject: PWM motor controller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ok, have it done up. Find in the incoming directory a couple of files: Pwm.txt Write up on circuit pwm1.gif Image of schematic Have fun, and let us know how your experiments work out! BobR. Any questions, just post... -- From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 16:13:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA11287 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:13:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM [129.239.31.106]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11280 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:13:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199902022113.QAA11280@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR786QQ>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:13:18 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:11:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > IIRC, the exhaust ports on the Ford 427 FE "cammer" were the first to be > D > > shaped---with the flat on the short side of the curve. In other words, > > round, except for where the flow would separate anywayz. Believe it was > > claimed to help keep velocity up, and more importantly, turbulence down. > > > actually what it does is slow the flow at the bottom of the port > more than the flow at the top > this helps the gases turn the corner > "Gasses"? Stay with me, I'm on a learning curve here. I don't know if it is important anymore between the "D" or "Square" shaped runners anymore because it is only air going thru them. I can understand air speed in the runner, etc., but where it goes out the window for me is when you see the runner, where it attaches to the plenum, is a square corner! A lot of plenum / runner combinations are shaped like a "T". Believe me, I'm not trying to make an issue out of this, just trying to understand and make the best setup feasible. Thanks.....Tim. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 16:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA11551 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:22:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA11547 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:22:55 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.7]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA14477 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:22:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e101be4ef2$a3b5b7c0$07633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Love This Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:26:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Clarence Wood To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:11 PM Subject: RE: Love This > Could you, or someone, please explain PWM (assuming that PWM=Pulse Width Modulation) of cooling fans? It all relates to the digitial world. While resistors could be used to slow a fan motor down, they give off heat, and thus waste energy. PWM, is full on but for short periods of time, lots less wasted heat. Also, infinitely variable speed controls are possible. While was mentioned for cooling fans, I was looking for a fuel pump controller, but a motor issa motor. Bruce I thought that cooling fans worked on an on/off system. Under what conditions would you want PWM control, and what is the pulse width that is being modulated? You guys really know how to humble a guy; I thought I had a lock on cooling fans!(:< >Clarence From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 16:48:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12167 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:48:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca (pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA12162 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:48:56 -0500 Received: by pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 8825670C.00774E73 ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:43:08 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <8825670C.00774509.00@pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:42:42 -0800 Subject: Re: PCM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howday all Did some lookin round that Patent Web page Mike posted. Patent 5,267,542 might be interesting for those lookin at gm PCMs Bit of misinformation though gl:peter From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 16:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12378 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:55:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12374 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:55:18 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-087.nordson.com [207.206.59.87]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA20301 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:55:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <042901be4ef6$96dbc860$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Love This Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:53:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cooling fans are PWM controlled to minimize noise when full cooling is not needed. Gary Derian > > I thought that cooling fans worked on an on/off system. Under what >conditions would you want PWM control, and what is the pulse width that is >being modulated? You guys really know how to humble a guy; I thought I had >a lock on cooling fans!(:< >>Clarence > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 17:05:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12660 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:05:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-97.s34.as1.brp.erols.com [207.172.226.97]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12655 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:05:21 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00259 for ; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:04:39 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:04:39 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199902022204.RAA00259@webserver> Message-ID: <36B77558.2A6B2D21@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 21:59:52 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Love This References: <00e101be4ef2$a3b5b7c0$07633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > While was mentioned for cooling fans, I was looking for a fuel pump > controller, but a motor issa motor. However, not all motors are the same :) > I thought that cooling fans worked on an on/off system. Under what > conditions would you want PWM control, and what is the pulse width that is > being modulated? You guys really know how to humble a guy; I thought I had > a lock on cooling fans!(:< To vary the speed of the fan :) Faster at a standstill, faster with the A/C on, slower or off otherwise :) A lot of the day-time running lights work the same way, they run at a 50% duty cycle rather than 100%. Beats a large, hot resistor like you said in the chopped out portion of your post. -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 17:08:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA12784 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:08:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA12780 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:08:39 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA27331 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:08:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv7-45.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.7.188] (may be forged)) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA26512 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:08:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006801be4f11$9cb99940$bc079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:07:09 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yup, I agree. Say 'hi' sometime offline. Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sharpe To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 9:22 PM Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA was(Re: More UEGO stuff) > > >Walter Sherwin wrote: > >> Not quite Bruce. Picture the following "Remapping" >> procedure............................... >> >> Create a cal which defeats all of the A/F modifiers such as AE, EGR, ECT, >> etc. Also, disable open loop PE enrichment so that the computer stays in >> closed loop under all conditions. Basically, you would now have a VE driven >> cal, with closed loop correction capability. But, instead of "learning" >> towards stoich, the system would learn towards a safe setpoint (of say >> 11.5:1) defined by the electronic gizmo I had proposed. >> >> > >If we are learning, let's learn 11.5:1 < 10" vacuum (MAP???) stoich at 15"+ >vacuum (could learn lean burn also) and a straight line between them. Come up >with "standard" correction factors for H20 (warm up) and Air Temp and you're >done. > >It's not really that simple, but close..... Tom > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 17:33:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13608 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:33:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13604 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:33:14 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA03774 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:33:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv6-12.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.7.107]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA09870 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:33:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008f01be4f15$0af52ca0$bc079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: VE calculations from torque graph and manifold pressure. Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:31:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Given the fact that I have a DYNO torque curve of a motor over it entire RPM >range for WOT >I should be able to convert torque to VE Assuming you have plugged in the appropriate constants for your engine's displacement and injectors, then yes the shape of the WOT VE table will closely resemble the shape of the WOT torque curve. You might want to aim for 80% VE at peak torque, just to give yourself some headroom to play around in. >With the above results I should be able to build one column in my VE map in >my 808 ECU. >Would it be possible to somehow via math's calculations to work out (roughly) >The VE numbers for all other load conditions. To get close, just use a ratio factor. 50 MAP would lead you to a VE of 50% of the WOT VE table value, at that engine speed. You should be able to start to tune with such a Map. Have Fun; Walt. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 17:37:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA13758 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:37:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sgi.com (SGI.COM [192.48.153.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA13753 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:37:24 -0500 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980304.SGI-aspam: SGI does not authorize the use of its proprietary systems or networks for unsolicited or bulk email from the Internet.) via ESMTP id OAA04196 for <@sgi.engr.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:37:23 -0800 (PST) mail_from (gervais@rtrman.engr.sgi.com) Received: from rtrman.engr.sgi.com (rtrman.engr.sgi.com [150.166.97.164]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id OAA30402 for <@cthulhu.engr.sgi.com:diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:37:23 -0800 (PST) mail_from (gervais@rtrman.engr.sgi.com) Received: (from gervais@localhost) by rtrman.engr.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/960327.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA00830 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:37:22 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:37:22 -0800 From: gervais@rtrman.engr.sgi.com (Joe Gervais) Message-Id: <9902021437.ZM828@rtrman.engr.sgi.com> In-Reply-To: "Bruce Plecan" "V-8 Datsun 240/260 owners sorry no DIY_EFI yet" (Feb 2, 3:20pm) References: <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> X-Mailer: Z-Mail-SGI (3.2S.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've been quiet on this list for a while. I swapped a 93 LT1 into my early Corvette, and thanks to this list and others, have enjoyed that swap and am about to do a similar swap into a 69 Camaro with a 97 Z28 motor that I couldn't pass up. I know some of the high horsepower guys I know have swapped from OBD II to OBD I PCMs due to difficulties of squeezing 600 HP out of an OBD II controlled motor. For a stock, smog exempt OBD II swap, are there any pitfalls that I should look out for? Anyone else on the list already done such a swap? Joe -- _________________________________________________________________________ Joe Gervais gervais@sgi.com Product Line Manager (650) 933-7479 voice High Performance Networking (650) 964-0811 fax Silicon Graphics www.sgi.com 2011 North Shoreline Blvd, Mail Stop 08L-855, Mountain View, CA 94043-1389 From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 17:49:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA14131 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14127 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA01788 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:49:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:49:30 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? In-Reply-To: <9902021437.ZM828@rtrman.engr.sgi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Joe Gervais wrote: > I've been quiet on this list for a while. I swapped a 93 LT1 into my early > Corvette, and thanks to this list and others, have enjoyed that swap and am > about to do a similar swap into a 69 Camaro with a 97 Z28 motor that I couldn't > pass up. > > I know some of the high horsepower guys I know have swapped from OBD II to OBD > I PCMs due to difficulties of squeezing 600 HP out of an OBD II controlled > motor. For a stock, smog exempt OBD II swap, are there any pitfalls that I > should look out for? Anyone else on the list already done such a swap? > > Joe > If you are swapping in the standard stock unmodified engine you will only need to fake out the sensors that you aren't using, such as the additional O2 sensors behind the cats. Also I believe there are some things that detect a loose gas cap, this will need to be faked out also, and probably several other sensors of the same sort. That is I believe why they generally put a 95 pcm in, they don't have to worry about it. The 96 + pcm does have some nice features, it will count misfires, but this is supposed to get rather confused if you put a cam that is too big in the car, and count alot of misfires and set SES lights and such. If the engine is being modified then the misfire detection seems to be the most troublesome thing, if you are staying in the same car. There are supposed to be "O2" sensors to properly fake out the behind the cat sensors inputs so the computer does not notice. I think it takes the front O2 sensor and makes up the rear signal based on that. And I guess the other problem is not many companies know how to program the 96+ cars, so that is really a problem. Roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:07:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14470 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:07:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (216-064-096-005.inaddr.vitts.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14466 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:07:17 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:10:43 -0500 Received: from [205.247.202.78] by grolen.com id 90cc0.wrk; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:06:24 EDT Message-ID: <36B783EF.238C973E@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:02:07 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Love This References: <042901be4ef6$96dbc860$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gary Derian wrote: > > Cooling fans are PWM controlled to minimize noise when full cooling is not > needed. > Electrical or acoustic? Shannen > Gary Derian > > > > > I thought that cooling fans worked on an on/off system. Under what > >conditions would you want PWM control, and what is the pulse width that is > >being modulated? You guys really know how to humble a guy; I thought I had > >a lock on cooling fans!(:< > >>Clarence > > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:09:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14538 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:09:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14534 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:09:39 -0500 Received: from cruzers.com (surf38.cruzers.com [205.215.232.38]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA17015 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:21:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36B785BD.CE978A81@cruzers.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 15:10:16 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Stuart Bunning wrote: > I have removed the carby and > installed the TBI and now (havn't done this yet) are going to keep altering > the VE table until the base pulse width for the injectors will supply the > same amount of fuel as my carby did at idle over the same time period. > Hopefully I will be able to start the car and it will idle. The problem is > if I change RPM or load of the engine ( touch the trottle ) I would > instantly go lean. If I was to set the entire VE map the same maybe your > approach will enable to use BLM numbers to adjust the rest of my map. You won't go as lean as you think. The MAP sensor is used to index into the VE map. But it normally is also multiplied into the fuel calculation. If you had a totally flat VE map, an increase in MAP would still increase the fuel delivered. (Further, an increase in RPM would cause fuel to be injected more often - also increasing the total fuel delivery over a unit of time.) > For example if at 3000RPM I have maximum torque at WOT 100% efficient could > I assume > that at 50KPA it would we only 50% efficient,25KPA 25% etc... I checked the VE table in a production PROM. At most RPM values, there was almost exactly a factor of two increase in VE from 20 KPa to 100 KPa. (Once the MAP gets multiplied in, that means a factor of ten in fuel from 20 KPa to 100 KPa.) Across the RPM range, the highest and lowest VEs varied by about a factor of 1.5. The only exception was the idle "corner" of the table (low rpm, low MAP / high vacuum). In this portion of the table, the VE dropped below what would be predicted by the previous ratios. Perhaps you should do your carb measurement at a load other than idle - and use the results to set an initial (flat) VE table. Regarding tuning with a UEGO: A wide range sensor allows the BLMs to be determined almost instantly. If the sensor indicated a ratio of 12.3 when the ECM wanted 14.6, a little bit of math can jump the BLM to very close to the correct value for the next cylinder cycle. There is no need to bump the BLM (or INT) by one count, wait a while, and perhaps repeat. Of course these smart BLM changes would require a code change in an ECM's program. With appropriate software, the VE table could be tuned fairly well on a dyno with just a quick sweep through the RPM ranges at 10 or 20 different throttle positions. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:11:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14643 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:11:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14639 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:11:44 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-17.mtco.com [206.69.130.17]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA00988 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:11:43 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B78685.1DD4D8E3@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:13:09 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: AutoClutch and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Why not go all the way and adopt the Ferrari setup. Use the standard friction clutch operated by a power steering pump and cylinder along with the finger switches on the steerring wheel to up/down shift, all controlled by the computer. Copy the ratchet shifter mechanism from a motorcycle. Just two pedals and no shifter..... Let's see.... has anyone seen a Ferrari in the local U-Pull?? Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:13:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14721 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:13:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.cas.honeywell.com [129.239.10.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14717 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:13:25 -0500 Message-Id: <199902022313.SAA14717@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR7809J>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:13:24 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Love This Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:10:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Love This > > > Could you, or someone, please explain PWM (assuming that PWM=Pulse > Width > Modulation) of cooling fans? > > Subject: RE: Love This > > > Could you, or someone, please explain PWM (assuming that PWM=Pulse > Width > Modulation) of cooling fans? > > Here's my .03 cents worth... Look at it from this angle. The light dimmer > is your house uses PWM to control the intensity of the light. The reason > the "brightness" of the light changes is because the "average power" > dissipated changes, ie. 1/2 bright, 50/50 duty cycle, full bright, 100% > duty cycle. > > In an electric motor, the start currents etc. are very high, so PWM is > used to overcome most of these losses. Again, the reason the motor runs > at 1/2 speed at 50/50 duty cycle is because the average power dissipated > is 1/2 of full power. > > Hope this helps....Tim. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:21:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14813 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:21:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14809 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:21:02 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.10] (p10.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.10]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA02254 for mail_from ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:20:59 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:20:59 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Smooth strategy) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >In a message dated 2/1/99 7:59:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, >cosmic.ray@juno.com writes: > ><< On Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:57:53 -0500 "Gwyn Reedy" writes: > >Take a WWII tank or a 40's Chrysler product with 'fluid drive' and you > have > >a fluid coupling with a standard transmission. > > > >Gwyn Reedy > >Brandon, Florida > >mailto:mgr@mgrcorp.com > > Mercedes also uses it in their Unimog 4X4 and 6X6 trucks. > >> >Yes, but why not go for a more violent type, and build a Clutchflite, or does >anyone recall the old clutch conversions for Torqueflites? Kind of a poor mans >Lenco. manual valve body and no missed shifts. They made versions of it in >TH400 too. >Fred Yep. Good stuff!! Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:24:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA14953 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:24:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA14949 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:24:43 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-17.mtco.com [206.69.130.17]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA16369 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:41 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B7898F.CF2129C@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:26:07 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Love This References: <042901be4ef6$96dbc860$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gary Derian wrote: > Cooling fans are PWM controlled to minimize noise when full cooling is not > needed. > > Gary Derian > Has anyone reverse eng. the circuits? Any parts available? Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:40:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15214 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:40:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15209 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:40:08 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.10] (p17.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.17]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA04132 for mail_from ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:40:05 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:40:05 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >> > Don't recall whatinell they called it, but for a while Porsche used a >> > fluid >> > coupling AND a vacuum operated clutch (which was triggered by a >> > microswitch >> > on the manual shift lever) in front of a manual tranny in the 911's. The >> > fluid coupling ran in engine oil, IIRC. (A fluid coupling does not >> > multiply >> > torque, has only two elements, called pump and turbine.) > > >TipTronic > >Clive BINGO!!! Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:49:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15442 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:49:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15438 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:49:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA17579 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:45 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:49:44 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Love This In-Reply-To: <36B783EF.238C973E@grolen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > Gary Derian wrote: > > > > Cooling fans are PWM controlled to minimize noise when full cooling is not > > needed. > > > Electrical or acoustic? > Shannen > I would say acoustical. On high speed setting the fans on my car are pretty loud. They are pretty quiet on the lower speed. Roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 18:54:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA15652 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:54:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA15648 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 18:54:47 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1CZ5730W>; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:54:37 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Love This Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:54:46 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Actually an AC light dimmer delays the firing of a triac so that only a portion of the sine wave goes to the lamp. For Dim the triac is on for 30 degrees of the 180 degrees positive peak and 30 degrees for the negative peak. PWM deals exclusively with square waves and DC applications. AC Motor control usually are variable frequency drive types. No harm intended. > -----Original Message----- > From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) [SMTP:Tim.Van.Setten@CAS.honeywell.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 5:11 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: Love This > > > Subject: Re: Love This > > > > > Could you, or someone, please explain PWM (assuming that PWM=Pulse > > Width > > Modulation) of cooling fans? > > > > Subject: RE: Love This > > > > > Could you, or someone, please explain PWM (assuming that PWM=Pulse > > Width > > Modulation) of cooling fans? > > > > Here's my .03 cents worth... Look at it from this angle. The light > dimmer > > is your house uses PWM to control the intensity of the light. The > reason > > the "brightness" of the light changes is because the "average power" > > dissipated changes, ie. 1/2 bright, 50/50 duty cycle, full bright, 100% > > duty cycle. > > > > In an electric motor, the start currents etc. are very high, so PWM is > > used to overcome most of these losses. Again, the reason the motor runs > > at 1/2 speed at 50/50 duty cycle is because the average power dissipated > > is 1/2 of full power. > > > > Hope this helps....Tim. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 20:13:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17071 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:13:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17067 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:13:55 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-86.mtco.com [206.69.130.86]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id TAA04150 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:13:53 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B7A328.12C10524@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 19:15:20 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA References: <36B785BD.CE978A81@cruzers.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ludis Langens wrote: > Of course these smart BLM changes would require a code change > in an ECM's program. With appropriate software, the VE table could be > tuned fairly well on a dyno with just a quick sweep through the RPM > ranges at 10 or 20 different throttle positions. That assumes you have a dyno..... Would probably also work on a chassi dyno.... Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 20:16:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17116 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:16:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA17108 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:15:53 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id LAA20113 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:13:36 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:13:36 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199902030113.LAA20113@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: Re: UEGO IDEA Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is the A/F ratio table found at xC4FA (ASBX) in my memcal responsible for part of the fuel supply multiplications that would be experienced even with a totally flat VE table? As my initial thought was if VE was flat it would lean out as load or RPM increased. The map below (hopefully your font it right or it will look like @$#@# ) changes the A/F ratio based on MAP and RPM ... My guess is that the VE table tells the ECU efficiency and the A/F table below tells the mixtures it will try to generate based on the VE table ????? Everyone talks about VE tables and ignition tables.. So what are the other A/F ratio table actuall used for. By looking at them it's pretty obvious 14.7 would = 14.7:1 air/fule ratio and at the right as load starts to get high we want power so the mixtures get righer?? But How mathimatically soes this contribute to adding additional fuel compared to the VE tables. SORRY IF THIS HAS BEEN COVERED !!! I guess I could/will burn a prom with a flat VE and flat A/F ratio table and hook it to my bench ecu and see what the CRO says as I change the MAP voltage or RPM slowly.. xC4FA DC.B 16,0,9 DC.B 140,147,147,147,130,130,130,130,130 DC.B 140,147,147,147,147,147,147,130,130 DC.B 140,147,147,147,147,147,147,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,147,135,134,134 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,147,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,147,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 145,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 140,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 140,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 DC.B 140,147,147,147,147,135,130,130,130 > >You won't go as lean as you think. The MAP sensor is used to index into >the VE map. But it normally is also multiplied into the fuel >calculation. If you had a totally flat VE map, an increase in MAP would > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 20:17:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA17165 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f275.hotmail.com [207.82.251.166]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17160 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:17:02 -0500 Received: (qmail 9283 invoked by uid 0); 3 Feb 1999 01:16:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990203011631.9282.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.68.35.150 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:16:31 PST X-Originating-IP: [216.68.35.150] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu, clare.snyder.on.ca@ibm.net Subject: RE: Love This Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 17:16:31 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Clarence L.Snyder wrote: >> Close... :) SCR's are used for AC applications. An SCR relys on >> the 0V crossing to turn off. And a TRIAC is two SCR's in parallel (sort >> of). :) >> >> Ernst. >Also used (with commutation circuit) on DC controllers like the GE >EV1 motor controller used on forklifts and some electric cars. REAL >tricky getting the suckers to turn off though! Yup. Anyone interested in this particular unnatural act (turning scrs off scrs) can see some scr commutation schemes on my page at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6160/hvtank/hvtank.html (Not for the electrically faint of heart) -Bill '84 Dodge Ram w/ Rochester 2-G carb from a '72 Chevelle ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 22:03:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA18791 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:03:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA18783 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:03:42 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.22]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA25869 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:03:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00bb01be4f22$39259800$16633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:06:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:47 PM Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length I worked at an R+D shop, and for a while Ollie Morris (one of the great of manifold designers), and find Smokey Yunick's quote of "square ain't as bad as it seems" (or words to that effect) meaningful. While many ports look like beautiful sculptures, sometimes it's just better to take you licks, and be done with it. Specially with a dry manifold. Considering at 6,000 rpm from butterfly to intake valve the "air" is only in the intake for like .008 (and possibly much lesss) of a sec. it ain't there long enough to estabish boundry layers/laminar flow enough to matter (for other than all out race applications). Worry about the bowl, and valve, the most. Specialy if were still talking about a turbo VW. Then we can get to keeping the total valve diameters not to exceed 85% of the bore, or shrouding gets to be an issue (non-hemi heads).. Sir Harry Ricardo, just realised I hadn't mentioned him in two weeks. Cheers Bruce Well, if the smoke alarm batteries fail, the Fire Dept is a distant second for a Food Timer. Gotta teach Doc to use the microwave. Least we got new windows in the Kitchen outta the deal. > I can understand air speed >in the runner, etc., but where it goes out the window for me is when you see >the runner, where it attaches to the plenum, is a square corner! A lot of >plenum / runner combinations are shaped like a "T". Believe me, I'm not >trying to make an issue out of this, just trying to understand and make the >best setup feasible. > Thanks.....Tim. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 22:26:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19151 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:26:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19147 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:26:44 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.22]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA27953 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:26:40 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010601be4f25$76457400$16633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: PWM motor controller Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:29:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: rauscher@icst.com To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:04 PM Subject: PWM motor controller Thanks Bruce > >Ok, have it done up. Find in the incoming directory >a couple of files: > Pwm.txt Write up on circuit > pwm1.gif Image of schematic >Have fun, and let us know how your experiments work out! >BobR. From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 22:31:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19266 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:31:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19262 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:31:43 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2HK6LU7; Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:31:05 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 21:38:26 -0500 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Message-ID: <19990201.233022.4630.2.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <00ef01be4e6e$2be43de0$d17d18cb@mainpc> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-5,7,9-15,17-23,27-29 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:37:48 +1100 "Ross Myers" writes: > > >>Hi all, >> I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these >>are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even >>as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the >>screen and sensor. >>Some of us race people are on tight budgets! >>PAUL > > >I know what you are saying Paul, but my point was if they felt the need for >a 32bit micro to run the thing something must be tricky. > >Regards > >Ross Myers Either that, or they want you to believe that it's tricky and pay the $$$$. Even if there is a pressure and thermal sensor, it wouldn't take much processing power to calculate a true lambda reading from all of that. Even if they are doing data logging... Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 22:57:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19758 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:57:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from stimpy.fp.co.nz (stimpy.fp.co.nz [202.12.105.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19754 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:57:19 -0500 Received: from minor.fp.co.nz (minor [97.1.1.12]) by stimpy.fp.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12856 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:57:11 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from psc.fp.co.nz by minor.fp.co.nz (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with ESMTP id QAA04605 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:57:07 +1300 Message-Id: <199902030357.QAA04605@minor.fp.co.nz> Received: from SCRATCHY/SpoolDir by psc.fp.co.nz (Mercury 1.31); 3 Feb 99 16:59:03 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by SCRATCHY (Mercury 1.31); 3 Feb 99 16:58:57 +1100 From: "Tony Bryant" Organization: Fisher & Paykel PSC To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:58:57 +1200 Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Priority: normal In-reply-to: <00bb01be4f22$39259800$16633acf@nacelp> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01b) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce says: > > I worked at an R+D shop, and for a while Ollie Morris (one of the great of > manifold designers), and find Smokey Yunick's quote of "square ain't as bad > as > it seems" (or words to that effect) meaningful. While many ports look like > beautiful > sculptures, sometimes it's just better to take you licks, and be done with > it. > Specially with a dry manifold. Considering at 6,000 rpm from butterfly to > intake valve the "air" is only in the intake for like .008 (and possibly > much lesss) of a sec. it ain't there long enough to estabish boundry > layers/laminar flow enough to matter (for other than all out race > applications). Worry about the bowl, and valve, > the most. Specialy if were still talking about a turbo VW. Then we can > get to keeping the total valve diameters not to exceed 85% of the bore, or > shrouding > gets to be an issue (non-hemi heads).. Sir Harry Ricardo, just realised I > hadn't mentioned him in two weeks. > Cheers Speaking of shrouding issues, I've just finished porting a head for my EFI Datsun L20B (2 valve non crossflow head). I made a cylinder sized pedestal extension for my flow bench, to attempt to simulate the shrouding effect of the cylinder walls (I have a 92% combined valve dia/bore ratio). To my amazement the flow went up as compared to the vastly unrealistic unshrouded situation I had before that. A quick investigation with the 'flow direction and velocity indicator' (a piece of sewing cotton tied to some welding wire), revealed that the flow patterns had changed from being concentrated on the ceiling, to being concentrated on the outside wall of the port, with the flow curling around the valve stem . I found the optimum port shape changed significantly. A completely different approach needed to be taken, than in my previous setup. I had always heard and read about how ports set low in the head don't flow worth a damn, but now I'm not so sure; my small low rectangular exhaust ports almost outflow my high, round smooth intakes! I also have a theory that low intake ports add significant swirl to the incoming mixture, for very little cost in flow. My 2c From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 23:05:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA19922 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:05:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19918 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:05:49 -0500 Received: from ordchris (ppp-109-217.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.109.217]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA07462 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:05:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <013e01be4f29$d7f28040$d96d6bcf@ordchris> From: "Ord Millar" To: Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:01:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce, can you explain the 85% diameter thing? It's not fitting into my brain too well... Ord -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:52 PM Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length > >-----Original Message----- >From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:47 PM >Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length > >I worked at an R+D shop, and for a while Ollie Morris (one of the great of >manifold designers), and find Smokey Yunick's quote of "square ain't as bad >as >it seems" (or words to that effect) meaningful. While many ports look like >beautiful >sculptures, sometimes it's just better to take you licks, and be done with >it. >Specially with a dry manifold. Considering at 6,000 rpm from butterfly to >intake valve the "air" is only in the intake for like .008 (and possibly >much lesss) of a sec. it ain't there long enough to estabish boundry >layers/laminar flow enough to matter (for other than all out race >applications). Worry about the bowl, and valve, >the most. Specialy if were still talking about a turbo VW. Then we can >get to keeping the total valve diameters not to exceed 85% of the bore, or >shrouding >gets to be an issue (non-hemi heads).. Sir Harry Ricardo, just realised I >hadn't mentioned him in two weeks. >Cheers >Bruce Well, if the smoke alarm batteries fail, the Fire Dept is a >distant > second for a Food Timer. Gotta teach Doc to use the >microwave. > Least we got new windows in the Kitchen outta the deal. > > >> I can understand air speed >>in the runner, etc., but where it goes out the window for me is when you >see >>the runner, where it attaches to the plenum, is a square corner! A lot of >>plenum / runner combinations are shaped like a "T". Believe me, I'm not >>trying to make an issue out of this, just trying to understand and make the >>best setup feasible. >> Thanks.....Tim. > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 23:10:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20058 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:10:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (mail2.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20054 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:10:43 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-137.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.137]) by mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA13869 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:10:03 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990202230937.0094c4a0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:10:37 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? In-Reply-To: <9902021437.ZM828@rtrman.engr.sgi.com> References: <"Bruce Plecan" <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 02:37 PM 2/2/99 -0800, you wrote: >I've been quiet on this list for a while. I swapped a 93 LT1 into my early >Corvette, and thanks to this list and others, have enjoyed that swap and am >about to do a similar swap into a 69 Camaro with a 97 Z28 motor that I couldn't >pass up. > >I know some of the high horsepower guys I know have swapped from OBD II to OBD >I PCMs due to difficulties of squeezing 600 HP out of an OBD II controlled >motor. For a stock, smog exempt OBD II swap, are there any pitfalls that I >should look out for? Anyone else on the list already done such a swap? You may want to go Pre-OBD_I as well... All of the OBD_I PCM's from GM I have seen on V8's have a pre and post cat O2 sensor... Pre OBD_I didn't. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 23:15:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20175 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:15:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail3.lig (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20171 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:15:46 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-137.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.137]) by mail3.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA11419 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:15:44 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990202231358.00944dc0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:15:42 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? In-Reply-To: References: <9902021437.ZM828@rtrman.engr.sgi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 04:49 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: >If you are swapping in the standard stock unmodified engine you will >only need to fake out the sensors that you aren't using, such as the >additional O2 sensors behind the cats. Also I believe there are some >things that detect a loose gas cap, this will need to be faked out >also, and probably several other sensors of the same sort. That is I >believe why they generally put a 95 pcm in, they don't have to worry >about it. The 96 + pcm does have some nice features, it will count >misfires, but this is supposed to get rather confused if you put a cam >that is too big in the car, and count alot of misfires and set SES >lights and such. I was on the Impala SS list for a while... The 94/5 pre-OBD_II pcm's still have the dual O2 sensors for each bank, pre and post cat. According to several list members, the 94/5 Vette and camaro/firebird also had the pre-post cat O2 sensors. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 23:20:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20237 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:20:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (ns.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20233 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:20:10 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-221.mtco.com [206.69.130.221]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA20552 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:20:08 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B7CECE.D12C48B5@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 22:21:34 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PWM motor controller References: <9902029179.AA917988420@icsvfnt.icst.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Pwm.txt Write up on circuit > pwm1.gif Image of schematic > > Have fun, and let us know how your experiments work out! > > BobR. > > Any questions, just post... I got out my rusty Tech America catalog and foundall the resistors and capacitors. I'm not a EE so I need lots of help. 1. What is a 18-24v 1Watt Zenier (I think I know but I need a PN). 2. IRFZ44 (pg73) T220 or IRFP044 (pg74) 4 pin package and 180W - 57 amps. 3. IN4753A or IN4755A (pg62) 36v 7ma - 43v 6ma 4. 470 uf 25V -- only electrolytic ??? 5. For the .1 uf and 3.3 uf cap, use electrolytic? can't find disk cap. What voltage?? 16? How do you convert pf to uf?? 6. I want to run it from a stamp computer (or possibly a HC11 SBC) driven from a Fuel pressure sensor and the tach lead. What do I need to change?? I think the input is 0-1 volt or 0-5 volts. Help 25 psi <= 2K rpm, 75 psi >= 6K rpm, rising rate from 2K to 6K rpm I could drive it directly from the 0-5V fuel pressure sensor. ------- the lights just went on again... Thanks in advance - I will test it with a pot - what wattage??? will a small one work? Tom Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 23:33:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20576 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:33:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20572 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:33:06 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.22]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA25090 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:33:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <014501be4f2e$bc15fc80$16633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:36:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Ord Millar To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 11:20 PM Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length Cylinder Bore x .85= some dimension. The sum of both valves head diameters should about equal that. 4" borex .85= 3.4 1.9" intake, and a 1.5" exhaust would work very well. None hemi type head. Not an absolute, but a good guide. Yates, and them NASCAR guys are now getting around that. But, they spend a ton of money to do it. Angle cutting the heads to get the stems more parrael to the cyl bore works to. Bruce >Bruce, > >can you explain the 85% diameter thing? It's not fitting into my brain too >well... > >Ord > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bruce Plecan >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 10:52 PM >Subject: Re: Intake Runner Length > > >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Van Setten, Tim (AZ75) >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 4:47 PM >>Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length >> >>I worked at an R+D shop, and for a while Ollie Morris (one of the great of >>manifold designers), and find Smokey Yunick's quote of "square ain't as bad >>as >>it seems" (or words to that effect) meaningful. While many ports look like >>beautiful >>sculptures, sometimes it's just better to take you licks, and be done with >>it. >>Specially with a dry manifold. Considering at 6,000 rpm from butterfly to >>intake valve the "air" is only in the intake for like .008 (and possibly >>much lesss) of a sec. it ain't there long enough to estabish boundry >>layers/laminar flow enough to matter (for other than all out race >>applications). Worry about the bowl, and valve, >>the most. Specialy if were still talking about a turbo VW. Then we can >>get to keeping the total valve diameters not to exceed 85% of the bore, or >>shrouding >>gets to be an issue (non-hemi heads).. Sir Harry Ricardo, just realised I >>hadn't mentioned him in two weeks. >>Cheers >>Bruce Well, if the smoke alarm batteries fail, the Fire Dept is a >>distant >> second for a Food Timer. Gotta teach Doc to use the >>microwave. >> Least we got new windows in the Kitchen outta the deal. >> >> >>> I can understand air speed >>>in the runner, etc., but where it goes out the window for me is when you >>see >>>the runner, where it attaches to the plenum, is a square corner! A lot of >>>plenum / runner combinations are shaped like a "T". Believe me, I'm not >>>trying to make an issue out of this, just trying to understand and make >the >>>best setup feasible. >>> Thanks.....Tim. >> >> >> > From diy_efi-owner Tue Feb 2 23:40:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA20694 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:40:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA20690 for ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:40:04 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-220.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.220]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA235256 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:40:01 GMT Message-ID: <36B7D338.1CE6@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 23:40:24 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: <01cd01be4ed0$199d5ce0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gary Derian wrote: > > I am defining a torque converter as a device that multiplies torque. If > there are only 2 elements, where does the torque multiplication come from? > If one element is attached to the engine and the second element is attached > to the transmission, there is no way the second element can have more torque > than the first. This two element thing you are describing may be a very > nice device and it may have been called a torque converter but it cannot > multiply torque. For that, you need a reaction member. > > I never took auto mechanics in high school. > > Gary Derian > > >Gary Derian wrote: > >> > >> A torque converter must have at least three elements. The extra torque > >> comes from the reaction at the stator. Its the hydraulic equivalent to a > >> lever and fulcrum where the extra force comes from the fulcrum. A torque > >> converter is not more efficient than a fluid coupling but it does > multiply > >> torque when it is slipping adding an extra gear for starts. At low > slippage > >> (cruise conditions) the stator freewheels and a torque converter reverts > to > >> a fluid coupling. A 4 or 5 element converter would be the equivalent of > a > >> compound lever. > > > >Reference Wm Crouse - Automotive mechanics- fifth edition - Webster/Mc > >Graw Hill. > >Torque converters with only 2 elements DID exist. The definitive > >difference between a fluid coupling and a TC is the shape of the vanes. > >Note, a 3 element fluid coupling also existed. > > > >You took auto mechanics in high school - I taught it :} Compared to a straight vane fluid coupling, it did a wonderful job -redirected SOME of the oil back onto the turbine instead of colliding with the pump. I always considered only the 3 element or more as torque converters too, but the fact remains, two element "torque converters" did exist - however few. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 00:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA22152 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:52:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA22148 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:52:18 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA26116 for mail_from ; Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:52:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:52:16 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Gary Derian wrote: >> >> I am defining a torque converter as a device that multiplies torque. If >> there are only 2 elements, where does the torque multiplication come from? >> If one element is attached to the engine and the second element is attached >> to the transmission, there is no way the second element can have more torque >> than the first. This two element thing you are describing may be a very >> nice device and it may have been called a torque converter but it cannot >> multiply torque. For that, you need a reaction member. >> >> I never took auto mechanics in high school. >> >> Gary Derian >> >> >Gary Derian wrote: >> >> >> >> A torque converter must have at least three elements. The extra torque >> >> comes from the reaction at the stator. Its the hydraulic equivalent to a >> >> lever and fulcrum where the extra force comes from the fulcrum. A torque >> >> converter is not more efficient than a fluid coupling but it does >> multiply >> >> torque when it is slipping adding an extra gear for starts. At low >> slippage >> >> (cruise conditions) the stator freewheels and a torque converter reverts >> to >> >> a fluid coupling. A 4 or 5 element converter would be the equivalent of >> a >> >> compound lever. >> > >> >Reference Wm Crouse - Automotive mechanics- fifth edition - Webster/Mc >> >Graw Hill. >> >Torque converters with only 2 elements DID exist. The definitive >> >difference between a fluid coupling and a TC is the shape of the vanes. >> >Note, a 3 element fluid coupling also existed. >> > >> >You took auto mechanics in high school - I taught it :} > Compared to a straight vane fluid coupling, it did a wonderful job >-redirected SOME of the oil back onto the turbine instead of colliding >with the pump. I always considered only the 3 element or more as torque >converters too, but the fact remains, two element "torque converters" >did exist - however few. No way--a two element torque converter is a violation of Newton's laws!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 03:51:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA24014 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:51:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from geocities.com (mail1.geocities.com [209.1.224.29]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA24010 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 03:51:22 -0500 Received: from dxz.arlec.com.au ([203.36.152.204]) by geocities.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA11103 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:51:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:51:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199902030851.AAA11103@geocities.com> X-Sender: dzorde@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: dzorde@geocities.com (dzorde) Subject: RE:RE:EFI Questions Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It just so happens our next race event in 2 weeks is at the drags, will have a play with timing and fuel then and see what happens. Thanks for your input so far. Dan dzorde@soanar.com.au -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: Monday, February 01, 1999 3:52 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: RE:EFI Questions Could it be due to the compression, yes. I still would first try to measure the performance, and see what changing the timing mixture does. Gray, is soot, soot is lack of O2. I don't know of anything contrary to that. Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 04:44:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA24505 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:44:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [205.247.203.87] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA24501 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:44:35 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:48:10 -0500 Received: from [205.247.203.129] by grolen.com id 25720.wrk; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 04:43:38 EDT Message-ID: <36B81947.E62CCD2@grolen.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 04:39:19 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? References: <"Bruce Plecan" <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> <4.1.19990202230937.0094c4a0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 02:37 PM 2/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I've been quiet on this list for a while. I swapped a 93 LT1 into my early > >Corvette, and thanks to this list and others, have enjoyed that swap and am > >about to do a similar swap into a 69 Camaro with a 97 Z28 motor that I > couldn't > >pass up. > > > >I know some of the high horsepower guys I know have swapped from OBD II to OBD > >I PCMs due to difficulties of squeezing 600 HP out of an OBD II controlled > >motor. For a stock, smog exempt OBD II swap, are there any pitfalls that I > >should look out for? Anyone else on the list already done such a swap? > > You may want to go Pre-OBD_I as well... > All of the OBD_I PCM's from GM I have seen on V8's have a pre and post cat > O2 sensor... Pre OBD_I didn't. > > Pre OBD_I? But that would mean using an ECM that's pre 1988. Shannen =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net > Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. > =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 07:51:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25871 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:51:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25867 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:51:42 -0500 Received: from mwt.net (ppp38.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.168]) by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA21827 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:50:18 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36B845AE.322A7AAE@mwt.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 06:48:47 -0600 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff References: <00ef01be4e6e$2be43de0$d17d18cb@mainpc> <19990201.233022.4630.2.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu They are probably using a digital control loop ( read the voltage with adc, set the current with dac ). Regulating heater wattage also. Just another way of controlling this sensor. When you have lots of margin dollars in the product and a team working on it full time it would make sense . Steve Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:37:48 +1100 "Ross Myers" > writes: > > > > > >>Hi all, > >> I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but > these > >>are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built > (even > >>as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the > >>screen and sensor. > >>Some of us race people are on tight budgets! > >>PAUL > > > > > >I know what you are saying Paul, but my point was if they felt the need > for > >a 32bit micro to run the thing something must be tricky. > > > >Regards > > > >Ross Myers > > Either that, or they want you to believe that it's tricky and pay the > $$$$. Even if there is a pressure and thermal sensor, it wouldn't take > much processing power to calculate a true lambda reading from all of > that. Even if they are doing data logging... > > Ray > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 07:52:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25890 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:52:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25886 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:52:42 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-140.nordson.com [207.206.59.140]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA07322 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:52:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002301be4f73$f5d605b0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: AutoClutch and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:51:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The Ferrari setup is WAY more complicated than that. Also motorcycles are non-synchro. A car trans won't shift with a ratchet shifter. But two pedals and no shifter is definitely the way to go. We have been shifting with 3 pedals and a shift lever since the '20s or teens. Gary Derian >Why not go all the way and adopt the Ferrari setup. Use the standard friction clutch >operated by a power steering pump and cylinder along with the finger switches on the >steerring wheel to up/down shift, all controlled by the computer. Copy the ratchet >shifter mechanism from a motorcycle. Just two pedals and no shifter..... > >Let's see.... has anyone seen a Ferrari in the local U-Pull?? Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 07:57:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25952 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:57:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA25948 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:57:50 -0500 Received: from dilbert (pix-140.nordson.com [207.206.59.140]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA08129 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:57:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003601be4f74$ad3c3f80$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: Love This Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:56:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Acoustic noise. Also reduces electric load. As far as electric noise goes, I don't know but it must not be a problem. Gary Derian >> Cooling fans are PWM controlled to minimize noise when full cooling is not >> needed. >> >Electrical or acoustic? >Shannen From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 08:22:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA26439 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:22:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA26435 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:22:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA04102 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:22:38 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 07:22:38 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? In-Reply-To: <36B81947.E62CCD2@grolen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > David A. Cooley wrote: > > > > At 02:37 PM 2/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >I've been quiet on this list for a while. I swapped a 93 LT1 into my early > > >Corvette, and thanks to this list and others, have enjoyed that swap and am > > >about to do a similar swap into a 69 Camaro with a 97 Z28 motor that I > > couldn't > > >pass up. > > > > > >I know some of the high horsepower guys I know have swapped from OBD II to OBD > > >I PCMs due to difficulties of squeezing 600 HP out of an OBD II controlled > > >motor. For a stock, smog exempt OBD II swap, are there any pitfalls that I > > >should look out for? Anyone else on the list already done such a swap? > > > > You may want to go Pre-OBD_I as well... > > All of the OBD_I PCM's from GM I have seen on V8's have a pre and post cat > > O2 sensor... Pre OBD_I didn't. > > > > > Pre OBD_I? But that would mean using an ECM that's pre 1988. > I think he means before pre-ODB-II which would be 93 or so. I don't thing anyone really has had any problems with the 94/95 f-body PCM's in this area. To the originaly person doing the swap, there is 1-2 on this list working on the disassembly of a 94/95 f-body PCM and if you know assembly the person would probably be glad for any help. One problem with going with an earlier ecm, is if you have the tranny with the engine then there may be a problem, as the tranny is electronically controlled and the electronic control was not done in the computer before 94. On the 93 ECM I have alot of the critical info already figured out. I have parts of the fuel system figured out, all of the TCC system is figured out. Roger From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 09:11:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA27541 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:11:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA27537 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:11:58 -0500 Received: from ord-laptop (ppp-111-133.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.111.133]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA03028 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:11:56 -0500 (EST) From: "Ord Millar" To: Subject: RE: PWM motor controller Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:11:42 -0400 Message-ID: <001401be4f76$c3703ac0$5f6e6bcf@ord-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <36B7CECE.D12C48B5@mtco.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu 1N4749A - 1 watt, 24V zener 1000 pF = 1nF, 1000 nF = 1uF (.1uF is 100000 pF) .1uF is easy to find in disk or ceramic monolithic, not electrolytic. 3.3uF can be found, should have a part number containing 335. -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Tom Sharpe Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 12:22 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PWM motor controller > Pwm.txt Write up on circuit > pwm1.gif Image of schematic > > Have fun, and let us know how your experiments work out! > > BobR. > > Any questions, just post... I got out my rusty Tech America catalog and foundall the resistors and capacitors. I'm not a EE so I need lots of help. 1. What is a 18-24v 1Watt Zenier (I think I know but I need a PN). 2. IRFZ44 (pg73) T220 or IRFP044 (pg74) 4 pin package and 180W - 57 amps. 3. IN4753A or IN4755A (pg62) 36v 7ma - 43v 6ma 4. 470 uf 25V -- only electrolytic ??? 5. For the .1 uf and 3.3 uf cap, use electrolytic? can't find disk cap. What voltage?? 16? How do you convert pf to uf?? 6. I want to run it from a stamp computer (or possibly a HC11 SBC) driven from a Fuel pressure sensor and the tach lead. What do I need to change?? I think the input is 0-1 volt or 0-5 volts. Help 25 psi <= 2K rpm, 75 psi >= 6K rpm, rising rate from 2K to 6K rpm I could drive it directly from the 0-5V fuel pressure sensor. ------- the lights just went on again... Thanks in advance - I will test it with a pot - what wattage??? will a small one work? Tom Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 09:35:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA28085 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:35:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icst.icst.com (icst.icst.com [12.3.42.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA28081 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:35:17 -0500 From: rauscher@icst.com Received: from icsvfnt.icst.com (icsvfnt.icst.com [199.183.101.2]) by icst.icst.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27035 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:22:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by icsvfnt.icst.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA918052686; Wed, 03 Feb 99 09:38:09 -0500 Message-Id: <9902039180.AA918052686@icsvfnt.icst.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 99 09:30:58 -0500 To: Subject: Re: PWM motor controller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu OK, lets see... >I got out my rusty Tech America catalog and found all the resistors and >capacitors. I'm not a EE so I need lots of help. Don't have a Tech America cat around, but I'll do my best... >1. What is a 18-24v 1Watt Zenier (I think I know but I need a PN). 1N4746 is an 18V, to 1N4749 being a 24V, DO-41 package. >2. IRFZ44 (pg73) T220 or IRFP044 (pg74) 4 pin package and 180W - 57 >amps. I use the TO-220 packages, cheaper and for this app you don't need the higher dissipation capability of the TO-247 package (IRFP044). >3. IN4753A or IN4755A (pg62) 36v 7ma - 43v 6ma Ah yes, part number and volts I used don't match, either will work, but I would tend to use the 36v, 1N4753. The best would be a TVS, unidirectional, 33V @ 600W. Spec number: P6KE33A, there are normally more characters following, but appear to be manufacture dependent. >4. 470 uf 25V -- only electrolytic ??? Electrolytic is fine, and cheap. >5. For the .1 uf and 3.3 uf cap, use electrolytic? can't find disk cap. >What voltage?? 16? How do you convert pf to uf?? The .1uf should be at least 16v. Ceramic disc is OK, but for best stability, use a film cap. Polyester or polypropylene are good. This cap should only affect the freq of the PWM, but sometimes there can be side effects. (cap on pin 2 of LM393). The 3.3uf, electrolytic is fine, again, min 16v, 25 or 35v works. pf to uf, lets see, 1000pf = 1nf = .001uf, thats pico, nano, micro farad. I think thats correct, just keep shifting the decimal point 3 at a time. >6. I want to run it from a stamp computer (or possibly a HC11 SBC) >driven from a Fuel pressure sensor and the tach lead. What do I need to >change?? I think the input is 0-1 volt or 0-5 volts. Help The Vin voltage range will be from 0 to 12V, drat, just thought of a potential problem. The duty cycle will vary with the power supply voltage. I keep forgetting that the auto volts vary greatly (as I slap my forehead, knocking my CSH askew). OK, this can work to our advantage, the incoming control volts also need to be stable. So, lets power the circuit from +5V, and have the incoming control volts (Vin), go from 0v to 5v for control. What we need to do, is to use a LM7805 3-terminal regulator to create a +5V supply. Run everything except the 2N2907 emitter from that. This should work, BUT, I'll breadboard it tonight and try it. OK, I'll test this out, and make the additions to the schematic. >25 psi <= 2K rpm, >75 psi >= 6K rpm, >rising rate from 2K to 6K rpm > >I could drive it directly from the 0-5V fuel pressure sensor. ------- >the lights just went on again... > >Thanks in advance - I will test it with a pot - what wattage??? will a >small one work? Yep, just about any old pot will do, even a 1 or 2 K Ohm will work. (Let's see, 5V / 1K Ohm = 5mA, 5Ma * 5V = 0.025W, which is under a 10th watt and worst case here, and I'm already thinking of using a 5v supply). > >Tom Sharpe BobR. -- From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 09:35:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA28093 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:35:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ihgw1.lucent.com (ihgw1.lucent.com [207.19.48.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA28089 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:35:41 -0500 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com by ihig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id IAA08970; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:36:40 -0600 Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA02573; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:35:33 -0500 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA02569; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:35:31 -0500 Message-ID: <36B85F2C.9E890C9E@lucent.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:37:32 -0500 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? References: <"Bruce Plecan" <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> <4.1.19990202230937.0094c4a0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu David, If the 94, 95 camaro had aftercat sensors they were for decoration only. I know a half dozen people using the 94, 95 LT1 computer in nearly stock configurations without Aftercat O2 sensors. There are two O2 sensors, but it is one in each bank, and they are both before the cats. Ken David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 02:37 PM 2/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I've been quiet on this list for a while. I swapped a 93 LT1 into my early > >Corvette, and thanks to this list and others, have enjoyed that swap and am > >about to do a similar swap into a 69 Camaro with a 97 Z28 motor that I > couldn't > >pass up. > > > >I know some of the high horsepower guys I know have swapped from OBD II to OBD > >I PCMs due to difficulties of squeezing 600 HP out of an OBD II controlled > >motor. For a stock, smog exempt OBD II swap, are there any pitfalls that I > >should look out for? Anyone else on the list already done such a swap? > > You may want to go Pre-OBD_I as well... > All of the OBD_I PCM's from GM I have seen on V8's have a pre and post cat > O2 sensor... Pre OBD_I didn't. > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net > Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 > I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. > =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 09:41:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA28264 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:41:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from algw2.lucent.com (algw2.lucent.com [205.147.213.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA28260 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:41:18 -0500 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com by alig2.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id JAA21143; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:55:10 -0500 Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA02849; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:41:08 -0500 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA02844; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:41:06 -0500 Message-ID: <36B8607B.DA843755@lucent.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 09:43:07 -0500 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs References: <7985004A6A01D21197320000F80837979F39E3@zbvwd000.ca.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ernst, I haven't disected a 96 unit, so I can't give you a direct answer. They seem to be very similar in many respects. I have my 95 apart, socketed the PCM, and I am building a Flash prom editor for this beast. If someone with a 96 wants to open his or hers we can compare notes. Ken Ernst Denbroeder wrote: > > Curious... > > Is the 96 PCM a pre 96 with additional circuitry or is it a ground up > redesign? > > Ernst. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ken Kelly [SMTP:kenkelly@lucent.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 9:02 AM > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs > > > > Curtis, > > The 96 PCM is OBD-II compliant. It is much more sensative > > to changes than the older units. It will set a lot of error > > codes if you make engine changes. A 94-95 PCM (16188051)from > > any LT1 will plug into your wiring harness and run the > > engine. It will not have OBD-II and not use the aftercat O2 > > sensors. Be sure to change the Knock sensor in the engine to > > match the original PCM application. Some people have had > > success changing the Knock module in the PCM to the one from > > the original PCM and not changing the KS. > > > > Ken > > > > > Curtis Mittong wrote: > > > > > > I have a 96 Impala SS with an LT1. I also have a bare LT1 > > > block that I plan to bore and stroke to 409. I already > > > know about all of the mechanical pitfalls I will hit, but > > > wondered how much HP will the stock PCM handle with > > > reprogramming and about #52 injectors? Will I be able to > > > do it? If not, what PCM should I use? > > > > > > Curtis From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 10:03:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA28867 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:03:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icst.icst.com (icst.icst.com [12.3.42.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA28863 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:03:14 -0500 From: rauscher@icst.com Received: from icsvfnt.icst.com (icsvfnt.icst.com [199.183.101.2]) by icst.icst.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA27230 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:50:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from ccMail by icsvfnt.icst.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00) id AA918054362; Wed, 03 Feb 99 10:06:05 -0500 Message-Id: <9902039180.AA918054362@icsvfnt.icst.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.00 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 99 09:59:27 -0500 To: Subject: PWM controller correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For those of you who didn't read through all of my response to Tom's questions, there is a potential got'cha. I have the 12v vehicle power being used to power up the PWM portion of the circuit. Vehicle volts vary greatly. This will cause a change in duty cycle as the vehicle volts change. Don't think we need this 'feature'. But, the fix is easy, use a LM7805 3-terminal regulator to create a stable 5 volt supply. Run the PWM portion (LM393), from this supply. (Checked the data book, LM393 is spec'd down to a 2V supply). This will also change the Vin control voltage to 0 to 5 volts. This should be better all around, as this will allow you to create a more stable control voltage. I'll breadboard this tonight, test it out, add the changes to the schematic, add in missing component specs, and get it posted. BobR. Thank you for your patience, we now return you to our normally scheduled program. -- From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 10:29:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29442 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:29:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29438 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:29:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28380 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:29:23 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:29:23 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs In-Reply-To: <36B8607B.DA843755@lucent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Ken Kelly wrote: > Ernst, > > I haven't disected a 96 unit, so I can't give you a direct > answer. They seem to be very similar in many respects. I > have my 95 apart, socketed the PCM, and I am building a > Flash prom editor for this beast. If someone with a 96 wants > to open his or hers we can compare notes. > > Ken > Ken, I assume you have been looking at what I am doing on the 93's. We might want to get together in writing the flash prom editors. I have noticed that other editors don't do very well with some of the single byte parameters. Mine is being written in VB 4.0, and I will probably need modules/screens for the TCC, fuel setup, spark setup, and misc parameters, and probably on a 96 for the trannyu shifting setup. Roger From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 10:34:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA29775 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:34:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com (mail1.cybersol.com [207.142.110.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA29771 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:34:37 -0500 Received: from alfred ([207.142.175.23]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:34:05 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990203103103.015adb64@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:31:03 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: VIRUS alert.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There's a virus (worm, actually), that attaches itself to your outgoing email w/o your knowing about it. I got it & may have passed it to this group, or individual members. Goes by the name HAPPY99.EXE - please check your drive - if you find it, do NOT run it, delete it. If there IS a problem w/ it, contact me for the fix. Sorry about that - Barry From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 10:40:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA30039 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:40:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.cas.honeywell.com [129.239.10.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA30034 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:40:17 -0500 Message-Id: <199902031540.KAA30034@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR79PWB>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:40:05 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Intake Runner Length Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:38:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > To my amazement the flow went up as compared to the vastly > unrealistic unshrouded situation I had before that. A quick > investigation with the 'flow direction and velocity indicator' (a piece > of sewing cotton tied to some welding wire), revealed that the flow > patterns had changed from being concentrated on the ceiling, to > being concentrated on the outside wall of the port, with the flow > curling around the valve stem . > > I found the optimum port shape changed significantly. A completely > different approach needed to be taken, than in my previous setup. > > I had always heard and read about how ports set low in the head > don't flow worth a damn, but now I'm not so sure; my small low > rectangular exhaust ports almost outflow my high, round smooth > intakes! > > I also have a theory that low intake ports add significant swirl to the > incoming mixture, for very little cost in flow. > > My 2c > Exactly right! We have been playing around with different porting schemes and found that you don't want the air to tumble in around the valve, instead, if you can make it swirl in (Vortec's idea?) you can get a lot more in. "Some" drag-racers claim that you want the swirl to go ccw also. (Why, and for what purpose? I can't imagine). We haven't got to playing with square or rectangular runners yet. Our cyl-to-bore ratio is 82%. (It's easier to turn up the boost to get more). Good input, thanks.....Tim. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 11:12:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA31414 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:12:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.centuryinter.net (mail2.centuryinter.net [209.142.136.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA31410 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:12:44 -0500 Received: from cen16176.centuryinter.net (ppp038.av.centuryinter.net [209.142.163.52]) by mail2.centuryinter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA03717 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:12:42 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990203101421.00710184@mail.ot.centuryinter.net> X-Sender: cen16176@mail.ot.centuryinter.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:14:21 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Clarence Wood Subject: Re: PWM motor controller In-Reply-To: <9902029179.AA917988420@icsvfnt.icst.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the info! I am planning to use the circuit for cooling fan control; will use water teperature sender instead of 5k pot; is there anything wrong with doing that? At 02:15 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Ok, have it done up. Find in the incoming directory >a couple of files: > > Pwm.txt Write up on circuit > pwm1.gif Image of schematic > > >Have fun, and let us know how your experiments work out! > >BobR. > > >Any questions, just post... > >-- > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 11:30:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA31923 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:30:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from exchmail.pns.anl.gov (exchmail.pns.anl.gov [146.139.156.118]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA31918 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:30:00 -0500 Received: by exchmail.pns.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:30:24 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Kurek, Larry" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 10:30:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, since I *have* a 94 Camaro, I can guarantee you that it does NOT have post cat O2 sensors. These made their debut on 96+ OBDII cars. Mine is OBDI. Other difference is that the F-body PCM uses only one knock sensor, whereas the Y-body (vette) uses two. AFAIK, the ONLY time post cat O2's were used (Y and F-body) was 96 up. Also, FWIW, there is a place called Casper electronics that makes the rear O2 simulators. heard they work pretty well :) TTYL! Larry > At 04:49 PM 2/2/99 -0600, you wrote: > > >If you are swapping in the standard stock unmodified engine you will > >only need to fake out the sensors that you aren't using, such as the > >additional O2 sensors behind the cats. Also I believe there are some > >things that detect a loose gas cap, this will need to be faked out > >also, and probably several other sensors of the same sort. > That is I > >believe why they generally put a 95 pcm in, they don't have to worry > >about it. The 96 + pcm does have some nice features, it will count > >misfires, but this is supposed to get rather confused if you > put a cam > >that is too big in the car, and count alot of misfires and set SES > >lights and such. > > I was on the Impala SS list for a while... The 94/5 > pre-OBD_II pcm's still > have the dual O2 sensors for each bank, pre and post cat. > According to several list members, the 94/5 Vette and > camaro/firebird also > had the pre-post cat O2 sensors. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 11:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA32056 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA32052 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:00 -0500 From: AL8001@aol.com Received: from AL8001@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id BBIHa20554 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:32:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <2636bc4a.36b87a15@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:32:21 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Throttle Body Fuel Pressure Regulator Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 99-02-01 12:49:11 EST, Teller.John@orbital.com writes: >Is there something highly calibrated in there that would be destroyed if >the regulator were disassembled, or is the warning there because the thing >needs to be taken apart in a press and the spring pressure let out slowly? > > The fuel regulator can be disassembled without any problems, unless it has high hours/ mileage. The reg consists of a steel disc on a swivel attatched to the diaphragm. The seat is a tube with a square end. The steel disc tends to get grooved by the tube, not a problem when the parts are bolted together. However, when you unbolt the diaphragm, it's imposible to reassemble the reg in exactly the same location. This will cause low fuel pressure. Harold From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 11:33:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA32089 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA32084 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:33:29 -0500 From: AL8001@aol.com Received: from AL8001@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id GDDMa03537 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:31:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:31:54 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: fusible link questions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >James Weiler wrote: >> >> gents, >> >> Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather >> than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that I'm >> missing? > > Fusible links really aren't that new, the 73 Dodge Dart used a few. The main advantges I see are: 1 Low cost to use. 2 No fuse block required, they can be installed close to the source of power. ( this reduces the length of unprotected wireing) 3 Circuits can be split up into smaller zones so a failure dosn't takeout vital systems. 4 No/ little chance of the fuse link wearing out. Yes wearing out. As someone has also posted, regular fuses that are used close to their rated capacity will pop for no apparent reason. This is from thermal cycleing. 5 I "think" fusible links have a lower resistance that a glass ( SFE 20) or a ATC/ ATO plastic fuse. It's posible to read a failed fuse, a silver spot usually means a dead short ( pinched wire) . A melted link is usually a overload ( fan motor with bad bearings) or possibily a worn out fuse. Other trivia. Light bulbs do wear out before burning out. Tunsgsten from the hot filament coats the inside of the glass reducing the transmitted light and the filament starts to develop thin spots. If the glass looks black/silver or the filament looks grainy black/ silver the bulb should be replaced. Mufflers do have bearings. It's possible to walk up hill to school both ways. Harold From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 11:39:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA32338 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:39:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA32332 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:39:52 -0500 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA04630; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:40:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 11:40:02 -0500 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: VIRUS alert.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990203103103.015adb64@smtp.cybersol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Barry Tisdale wrote: > Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:31:03 -0500 > From: Barry Tisdale > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: VIRUS alert.... > > There's a virus (worm, actually), that attaches itself to your outgoing email w/o your knowing about it. I got it & may have passed it to this group, or individual members. Goes by the name HAPPY99.EXE - please check your drive - if you find it, do NOT run it, delete it. > > If there IS a problem w/ it, contact me for the fix. > > Sorry about that - Barry > do you have any other details? ( I'm not worried at work but, home mail is win.95) This sounds strang but if anyone catches this bug could you send it to me ( as a programming virii are interesting ) I have a zoo full of them 8-) Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 12:39:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA01692 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:39:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cbgw1.lucent.com (cbgw1.lucent.com [207.24.196.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01688 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:38:59 -0500 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com by cbig1.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id MAA08196; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:36:04 -0500 Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id MAA14016; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:38:49 -0500 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id MAA14013; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:38:48 -0500 Message-ID: <36B88A21.71EE4309@lucent.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 12:40:49 -0500 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sounds Good. I just started mine. It is in VB5! I have the basic structure working. I have implemented the basic windows functions like Open & save as. I had a little trouble with the binary files - I'm not a basic programmer, but I have it all working now. I have read a file, checked the data internally, and written the data out into another file using Save as. The files are identicle. I am now coding the scramble & unscramble chip function. I expected to actually start the edit parameters later this week. As you know I have to deal with two chips, the event & the timer side. My plan is to start with basic edit by name with some reasonable scaling built in. I will add the fancy graphics and block edits later. I would like to see how similar our data tables are. It looks like I really have 0xFFF of data table in each chip. Some of the items may be the same. Let's talk off list. I have your email, and you have mine. Ken Roger Heflin wrote: > > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Ken Kelly wrote: > > > Ernst, > > > > I haven't disected a 96 unit, so I can't give you a direct > > answer. They seem to be very similar in many respects. I > > have my 95 apart, socketed the PCM, and I am building a > > Flash prom editor for this beast. If someone with a 96 wants > > to open his or hers we can compare notes. > > > > Ken > > > > Ken, > > I assume you have been looking at what I am doing on the 93's. We > might want to get together in writing the flash prom editors. I have > noticed that other editors don't do very well with some of the single > byte parameters. Mine is being written in VB 4.0, and I will probably > need modules/screens for the TCC, fuel setup, spark setup, and misc > parameters, and probably on a 96 for the trannyu shifting setup. > > Roger From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 13:32:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA03106 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:32:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (216-064-096-005.inaddr.vitts.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA03102 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:32:00 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:35:42 -0500 Received: from [205.247.203.138] by grolen.com id 6be10.wrk; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:31:02 EDT Message-ID: <36B894E0.9518D9E4@grolen.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:26:41 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: PWM motor controller References: <3.0.3.32.19990203101421.00710184@mail.ot.centuryinter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu GM temp sensor senders aren't linear. There are huge changes in resistance when cold, decreasing as temp increases. In fan country, (210+ degrees), resistance goes from around 185 Ohms @ 210F to 55 at 260. Just a FWIW. Shannen Clarence Wood wrote: > > Thanks for the info! I am planning to use the circuit for cooling fan control; will use water teperature sender instead of 5k pot; is there anything wrong with doing that? > > At 02:15 PM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Ok, have it done up. Find in the incoming directory > >a couple of files: > > > > Pwm.txt Write up on circuit > > pwm1.gif Image of schematic > > > > > >Have fun, and let us know how your experiments work out! > > > >BobR. > > > > > >Any questions, just post... > > > >-- > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 14:03:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA03904 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:03:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.centuryinter.net (mail2.centuryinter.net [209.142.136.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA03900 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:03:22 -0500 Received: from cen16176.centuryinter.net (ppp026.av.centuryinter.net [209.142.163.40]) by mail2.centuryinter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA03914 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:03:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990203130206.006bfe9c@mail.ot.centuryinter.net> X-Sender: cen16176@mail.ot.centuryinter.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 13:02:06 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Clarence Wood Subject: Re: PWM motor controller In-Reply-To: <9902039180.AA918052686@icsvfnt.icst.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 09:30 AM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: (snip) >>4. 470 uf 25V -- only electrolytic ??? > >Electrolytic is fine, and cheap. > (big snip) I am lost on this one! The only 470 I can find on the schematic is a resistor. Where is the 470 uf capacitor used? Clarence From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 14:49:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04773 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:49:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04769 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:48:59 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1CZ579T6>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:48:48 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: fusible link questions Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 13:49:12 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu GM shop manuals have a chart for fuse link applications and repair of blown links. The manual indicates that the fuse link should be 4 wire sizes smaller than the wire being protected. The only real problem with fuse links is when the crimps become corroded and heat up due to high resistance. > -----Original Message----- > From: AL8001@aol.com [SMTP:AL8001@aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 10:32 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: fusible link questions > > >James Weiler wrote: > >> > >> gents, > >> > >> Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather > >> than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that > I'm > >> missing? > > > > > > Fusible links really aren't that new, the 73 Dodge Dart used a few. The > main > advantges I see are: > > 1 Low cost to use. > > 2 No fuse block required, they can be installed close to the source of > power. > ( this reduces the length of unprotected wireing) > > 3 Circuits can be split up into smaller zones so a failure dosn't takeout > vital systems. > > 4 No/ little chance of the fuse link wearing out. Yes wearing out. As > someone > has also posted, regular fuses that are used close to their rated capacity > will pop for no apparent reason. This is from thermal cycleing. > > 5 I "think" fusible links have a lower resistance that a glass ( SFE 20) > or a > ATC/ ATO plastic fuse. > > It's posible to read a failed fuse, a silver spot usually means a dead > short ( > pinched wire) . A melted link is usually a overload ( fan motor with bad > bearings) or possibily a worn out fuse. > > Other trivia. Light bulbs do wear out before burning out. Tunsgsten from > the > hot filament coats the inside of the glass reducing the transmitted light > and > the filament starts to develop thin spots. If the glass looks > black/silver or > the filament looks grainy black/ silver the bulb should be replaced. > > Mufflers do have bearings. > > It's possible to walk up hill to school both ways. > > > Harold From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 16:16:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06183 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:16:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (mail1.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06179 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:16:34 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-176.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.176]) by mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA02333 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:15:51 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990203161536.009609f0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:16:22 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? In-Reply-To: <36B81947.E62CCD2@grolen.com> References: <"Bruce Plecan" <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> <4.1.19990202230937.0094c4a0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 04:39 AM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >Pre OBD_I? But that would mean using an ECM that's pre 1988. Actually, the 94/95 was more like OBD_I 1/2... 93 and earlier should work without the rear sensor =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 16:25:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06307 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:25:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (mail1.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06303 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:25:18 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-176.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.176]) by mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA09237 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:24:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990203162411.00966390@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:25:05 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Chevy ECMs In-Reply-To: <36B8607B.DA843755@lucent.com> References: <7985004A6A01D21197320000F80837979F39E3@zbvwd000.ca.nortel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 09:43 AM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >Ernst, > >I haven't disected a 96 unit, so I can't give you a direct >answer. They seem to be very similar in many respects. I >have my 95 apart, socketed the PCM, and I am building a >Flash prom editor for this beast. If someone with a 96 wants >to open his or hers we can compare notes. > Ken, What car is your 95 PCM from? I have an extra I'm dissecting for my 95 LeSabre... Still has a mem-cal, but has EEprom as well (I think...) =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 16:26:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06327 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:26:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from Gatekeeper.sciatl.com (Gatekeeper.SciAtl.COM [192.133.190.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06323 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:26:31 -0500 Received: from [172.18.27.117] by Gatekeeper.sciatl.com for id QAA22603; Wed Feb 3 16:26:30 1999 Message-ID: <36B8BEFF.EE84C5D4@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:26:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? References: <"Bruce Plecan" <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> <4.1.19990202230937.0094c4a0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> <4.1.19990203161536.009609f0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Andrew K. Mattei" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu "David A. Cooley" wrote: > >Pre OBD_I? But that would mean using an ECM that's pre 1988. > > Actually, the 94/95 was more like OBD_I 1/2... 93 and earlier should work > without the rear sensor I'll give you the OBD 1 1/2 - I can't use a paper clip to flash SES codes on my '94 Z28. However, there is *no* O2 sensor after the cat. Know that for a fact. The stock exhaust is sitting in my garage storage closet - and it butts right up to the cat... Plus, the ALDL info available is significantly more for the '94/95 than there was for the '93. Not that more is better, there's just more there... ;) -Andrew From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 16:27:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06337 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:27:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hutsnet1.hutch.com.au (root@hutsnet1.hutch.com.au [203.12.80.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06333 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:27:23 -0500 Received: from hutsg5p10.hutch.com.au (hutsg5p10.hutch.com.au [203.12.81.43]) by hutsnet1.hutch.com.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA06959 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 08:14:36 +1100 (EST) Received: by hutsg5p10.hutch.com.au with Microsoft Mail id <01BE501F.F5C96F60@hutsg5p10.hutch.com.au>; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:23:01 +1100 Message-ID: <01BE501F.F5C96F60@hutsg5p10.hutch.com.au> From: Wayne Macdonald To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Tim Drury article Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:45:50 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BE501F.F5CAF600" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE501F.F5CAF600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a copy of the article and can scan/ocr it in if anyone needs it. Wayne. ---------- From: steve ravet Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 3:05 AM To: diy_efi Subject: Tim Drury article Several people have written me asking about the distributorless ignition article that Tim Drury wrote. There is a pointer to it on the DIY_EFI page. The article has been unavailable for some time now. Does anyone know the wherabouts of either Tim or his article? --steve ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE501F.F5CAF600 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgEWAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAYAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAYQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMy LmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQBTTVRQAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVk dQAAAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAIgAAAGRpeV9lZmlAZWZpMzMyLmVuZy5v aGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAACQAAAAnZGl5X2VmaUBlZmkz MzIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1JwACAQswAQAAACcAAABTTVRQOkRJWV9FRklARUZJMzMyLkVO Ry5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAKcSAEEgAEA FgAAAFJFOiBUaW0gRHJ1cnkgYXJ0aWNsZQBVBwEFgAMADgAAAM8HAgAEAAAALQAyAAQAPwEBIIAD AA4AAADPBwIABAAAACwAJwAEADMBAQmAAQAhAAAAQUUwRTlCQzk2NkJCRDIxMTgwQTYwMDEwNEI2 NEQ1ODUAIAcBA5AGAPgDAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYA AAAAAEAAOQDwj/SCe0++AR4AcAABAAAAFgAAAFJFOiBUaW0gRHJ1cnkgYXJ0aWNsZQAAAAIBcQAB AAAAFgAAAAG+T3uC7MmbDq+7ZhHSgKYAEEtk1YUAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEA AAAWAAAAd21jZG9uYWxAaHV0Y2guY29tLmF1AAAAAwAGEGfVarEDAAcQdgEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAA AElIQVZFQUNPUFlPRlRIRUFSVElDTEVBTkRDQU5TQ0FOL09DUklUSU5JRkFOWU9ORU5FRURTSVRX QVlORS0tLS0tLS0tLS1GUk9NOlNURVZFUkFWRVRTRU5UOldFRE5FU0RBWSwAAAAAAgEJEAEAAABs AgAAaAIAAIkEAABMWkZ1uhUQrv8ACgEPAhUCpAPkBesCgwBQEwNUAgBjaArAc2V07jIGAAbDAoMy A8YHEwKDIjMPemhlbAMgRGzqZwKDNBMNfQqACM8J2eI7F58yNTUCgAqBDbHBC2BuZzEwMxQgCwqL EvIMAWMAQCBJIBHAIHZlIGEgBaBweeAgb2YgdBTwHOAAIMhpY2wc0W5kHQADkZME8ABwL28FACBp BUDvC4AfUB1wAHB5AiAc0CAwNwmABCAfYC4KhQqFV2EOeSAwIO0K9GxpMTiCMALRaS0xNDQN8GcM 0CQTC1kxNgqgA2B0+wWQBUAtJjcKhyTrDDAltvpGA2E6Jz4ltgyCHsAl4PUcwXIcsXQm3yftBmAC MJspHyorVwmAIDBzZCHgwiwowGVicnUKwB1AExrQMFAxOTFQIDM6NDA1E3BNK68n7VRvQy3vKitk aXlfDcBp4zIPLL51Ymol8TQvKit/B2EVMDCgMNEd1SI/I0Mz/jYktxXCDAEtKBzAK1ADINxwZR0g HiEco3cFEAJATQnwIAeAHOBzawuAZ/sc4AbgdQVAHZI2ACrwBRCeYkFgBbAeIAQRaWcDAN8d8AIg CoUd1h2QYTPhOtfzQBAl0S4gM/AU8BegH1DzBCAc8HBvC4Al4AXAQlAHH1ICIB2DRElZX0XsRkkK hQqwZ0V1HccRwMUEIGIJ4SB1bhywC3DfC2ACYBzQAhAFwHMDcEQhkwdxIFBvd0WBRG8Hkdsf9AqF a0vxHYN3RcFBM3sEIB1hZR9gRcE6swWxaPtGEh3kPyD8JjAq8zvfPO4vG9UltgqFFsEAVYADABAQ AAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMFBPllh7T74BQAAIMFBPllh7T74BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAD AA00/TcAAGAY ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE501F.F5CAF600-- From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 16:37:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06551 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:37:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.centuryinter.net (mail2.centuryinter.net [209.142.136.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06547 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:37:05 -0500 Received: from cen16176.centuryinter.net (ppp105.av.centuryinter.net [209.142.163.119]) by mail2.centuryinter.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA02101 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:37:02 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990203153823.006b4dd0@mail.ot.centuryinter.net> X-Sender: cen16176@mail.ot.centuryinter.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 15:38:23 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Clarence Wood Subject: RE: fusible link questions In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just installed a 100 amp altenator and the guy at the shop who sold me the unit told me to run a line of fusible link (14 Ga) from the Bat. terminal on the alternator to the positive terminal of the batery. The length of fusible link needed was about 4 ft. long. Should I have ran a 3ft 9in wire of 10 Ga and then soldered in a 3 inch piece of 14 Ga fusible link? Clarence At 01:49 PM 2/3/99 -0600, you wrote: >GM shop manuals have a chart for fuse link applications and repair of blown >links. The manual indicates that the fuse link should be 4 wire sizes >smaller than the wire being protected. The only real problem with fuse links >is when the crimps become corroded and >heat up due to high resistance. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AL8001@aol.com [SMTP:AL8001@aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 10:32 AM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re: fusible link questions >> >> >James Weiler wrote: >> >> >> >> gents, >> >> >> >> Can somebody tell me why fusible links are all the rage now rather >> >> than a fuse? Is there some niffty piece of info on these things that >> I'm >> >> missing? >> > >> > >> >> Fusible links really aren't that new, the 73 Dodge Dart used a few. The >> main >> advantges I see are: >> >> 1 Low cost to use. >> >> 2 No fuse block required, they can be installed close to the source of >> power. >> ( this reduces the length of unprotected wireing) >> >> 3 Circuits can be split up into smaller zones so a failure dosn't takeout >> vital systems. >> >> 4 No/ little chance of the fuse link wearing out. Yes wearing out. As >> someone >> has also posted, regular fuses that are used close to their rated capacity >> will pop for no apparent reason. This is from thermal cycleing. >> >> 5 I "think" fusible links have a lower resistance that a glass ( SFE 20) >> or a >> ATC/ ATO plastic fuse. >> >> It's posible to read a failed fuse, a silver spot usually means a dead >> short ( >> pinched wire) . A melted link is usually a overload ( fan motor with bad >> bearings) or possibily a worn out fuse. >> >> Other trivia. Light bulbs do wear out before burning out. Tunsgsten from >> the >> hot filament coats the inside of the glass reducing the transmitted light >> and >> the filament starts to develop thin spots. If the glass looks >> black/silver or >> the filament looks grainy black/ silver the bulb should be replaced. >> >> Mufflers do have bearings. >> >> It's possible to walk up hill to school both ways. >> >> >> Harold > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 16:53:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07032 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail3.lig (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07028 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:36 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-176.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.176]) by mail3.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA26063 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:30 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990203165158.00927f00@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 16:53:21 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? In-Reply-To: <36B8BEFF.EE84C5D4@mindspring.com> References: <"Bruce Plecan" <00a001be4ee9$6c88be40$07633acf@nacelp> <4.1.19990202230937.0094c4a0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> <4.1.19990203161536.009609f0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 04:26 PM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >"David A. Cooley" wrote: >> >Pre OBD_I? But that would mean using an ECM that's pre 1988. >> >> Actually, the 94/95 was more like OBD_I 1/2... 93 and earlier should work >> without the rear sensor > >I'll give you the OBD 1 1/2 - I can't use a paper clip to flash SES >codes on my '94 Z28. However, there is *no* O2 sensor after the cat. >Know that for a fact. The stock exhaust is sitting in my garage storage >closet - and it butts right up to the cat... > >Plus, the ALDL info available is significantly more for the '94/95 than >there was for the '93. Not that more is better, there's just more >there... ;) Yep.. I've got a 95 LeSabre with the 3800 V6. No 2nd O2, but there is a temp probe in the exhaust immediately after the cat... I keep thinking the guys on the Impala SS list said there was a 2nd O2 on each bank aftrer the cat, but I copuld be wrong... (Won't be the first time!) =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 16:53:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07038 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oscva.orbital.com (orbital.com [199.36.24.99]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07034 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:42 -0500 Received: from smtphq.orbital.com (smtphq.orbital.com [199.36.16.253]) by oscva.orbital.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA08336 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:41 -0500 (EST) Received: by smtphq.orbital.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 8525670D.007794E2 ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:46:08 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ORBVA From: Teller.John@orbital.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <8525670D.0077936A.00@smtphq.orbital.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:49:09 -0500 Subject: Groan... Not another VIRUS alert.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I know. I know. It isn't really EFI related, but... ;) I don't usually forward virus warnings because they're usually hoaxes but this one looks pretty dangerous, so a word to the wise.... IF YOU RECEIVE AN EMAIL ENTITLED "Badtimes", DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY! DO NOT ATTEMPT TO OPEN OR READ IT. This one is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. It will not only erase everything on your hard drive, but it will also delete anything on disks within 20 feet of your computer. It demagnetizes the stripes on ALL of your credit cards. It reprograms your ATM access code, screws up the tracking on your VCR and uses subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's you attempt to play. It will re-calibrate your refrigerator's coolness settings so all your ice cream melts and your milk curdles. It will reprogram your phone autodial to call only your mother-in-law's number. It will reverse the hot and cold water knobs on all your faucets. This virus will mix antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all your beer. It will leave dirty socks on the coffee table when you are expecting company. Its radioactive emissions will cause your toe jam and bellybutton fuzz (be honest, you have some) to migrate behind your ears. It will replace your shampoo with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while dating your current boy/girlfriend behind your back and billing their hotel rendezvous to your Visa card. It will cause you to run with scissors and throw things in a way that is fun until someone loses an eye. It will give you Dutch Elm Disease and Tinnitus. It will rewrite your backup files, changing all your active verbs to passive tense and incorporating undetectable misspellings which grossly change the interpretation of key sentences. It will leave the toilet seat up and leave your hair dryer plugged in dangerously close to a full bathtub. It will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses and pillows, but it will also refill your skim milk with whole milk. It will cause your sweaters to pill. It will replace all your luncheon meat with Spam. It is insidious and subtle. It is awful and terrifying to behold. Like Byron, it is mad, bad and dangerous to know. These are just a few signs of infection. I consider the bellybutton fuzz warning to be very serious! FORWARD THIS URGENT INFORMATION TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW IMMEDIATELY!!! If you still don't think this is another hoax, I may have a bridge you may be interested in! From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 17:23:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07627 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:23:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA07623 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:23:29 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-176.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.176]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11078 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:23:25 GMT Message-ID: <36B8CC82.4F62@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:24:02 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg Hermann wrote: > > No way--a two element torque converter is a violation of Newton's laws!! > > Regards, Greg Then what do you call a 3 element fluid coupling? The torque multiplier in the early hydramatic did not make it a torque converter - it was still a fluid coupling because it had tangential vanes. This was used on some Pontiac Hydros. The curved vanes of the torque converter reroute the oil to the backside of the pump instead of the front side - thereby increasing torque. The addition of the stator in a torque converter is much more effective than a multiplier in a fluid coupling for this reason. Don't believe me - go get a good automotive mechanics text book - preferably from the era when fluid couplings were not ancient history and check it out. An old fossil who's actually seen, driven, and worked on them. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 17:47:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA08343 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:47:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08338 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:47:57 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-118.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.118]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA62410 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:47:55 GMT Message-ID: <36B8D240.66EB@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:48:32 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: <01cd01be4ed0$199d5ce0$657cbdc0@dilbert.nordson.com> <36B7D338.1CE6@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu By the way, the fluid coupling was first used by Chrysler on the 1939 Custom Imperial 8. The unit was sealed with no external cooling. The Olds Hydramatic of 1937 -1938 used engine oil in the transmission. The Hudson of the same era used a wet disc clutch with "Hudsonite" fluid. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 17:50:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA08425 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:50:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08421 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:50:11 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1CZ58DG1>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:50:01 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Tim Drury article Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:50:25 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Please send one my way... Thanks Don > -----Original Message----- > From: wmcdonal@hutch.com.au [SMTP:wmcdonal@hutch.com.au] > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 7:46 AM > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: Tim Drury article > > I have a copy of the article and can scan/ocr it in if anyone needs it. > > Wayne. > > ---------- > From: steve ravet > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 3:05 AM > To: diy_efi > Subject: Tim Drury article > > Several people have written me asking about the distributorless > ignition > article that Tim Drury wrote. There is a pointer to it on the > DIY_EFI > page. The article has been unavailable for some time now. Does > anyone > know the wherabouts of either Tim or his article? > > --steve > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 17:53:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA08529 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:53:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA08525 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:53:39 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-118.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.118]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA51880 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:53:35 GMT Message-ID: <36B8D395.4518@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 17:54:13 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fusible link questions References: <3.0.3.32.19990203153823.006b4dd0@mail.ot.centuryinter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Clarence Wood wrote: > > Just installed a 100 amp altenator and the guy at the shop who sold me the unit told me to run a line of fusible link (14 Ga) from the Bat. terminal on the alternator to the positive terminal of the batery. The length of fusible link needed was about 4 ft. long. Should I have ran a 3ft 9in wire of 10 Ga and then soldered in a 3 inch piece of 14 Ga fusible link? > > Clarence snipp Most definitely!!! Actually, 10 gauge is light enough for a 100 amp alternator. Usually the fusible link is nasty to solder too - it is usually crimped. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 18:35:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA09515 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA09510 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:48 -0500 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA12478 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv3-12.oshawa.idirect.com [207.136.121.140]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA11624 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:35:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004d01be4fe6$f4c9f0a0$8c7988cf@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: OBD II LT1 Engine Swap Gotchas??? Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:34:24 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Also, FWIW, there is a place called Casper electronics that makes the rear >O2 simulators. heard they work pretty well :) > Please tell me more about Casper electronics. Thanks; Walt. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 19:06:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10304 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:06:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10300 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:06:10 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.15] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA03317 for mail_from ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:06:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:06:08 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Greg Hermann wrote: > >> >> No way--a two element torque converter is a violation of Newton's laws!! >> >> Regards, Greg >Then what do you call a 3 element fluid coupling? The torque multiplier >in the early hydramatic did not make it a torque converter - it was >still a fluid coupling because it had tangential vanes. This was used >on some Pontiac Hydros. >The curved vanes of the torque converter reroute the oil to the backside >of the pump instead of the front side - thereby increasing torque. The >addition of the stator in a torque converter is much more effective than >a multiplier in a fluid coupling for this reason. >Don't believe me - go get a good automotive mechanics text book - >preferably from the era when fluid couplings were not ancient history >and check it out. > >An old fossil who's actually seen, driven, and worked on them. And how many legs does a cow have if you call it's tail a leg?? Correct answer is either one or five, depending on the level of abstraction!! Very simply, there is no way to put more torque in to an output shaft whan what comes into the input shaft unless some part of the "contraption" puts a reaction torque into the case. PERIOD. "Every action must have an equal and opposite reaction." Not even Einstein altered that one!! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 19:18:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10693 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:18:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10689 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:18:50 -0500 Received: from koala (137.82.2.60) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:18:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:18:03 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: "Clarence L.Snyder" cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fusible link questions In-Reply-To: <36B8D395.4518@ibm.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hmmm, I just soldered in a few last night and had no problems. It soldered like regular wire does. Have I missed something here? jw On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Clarence L.Snyder wrote: > Most definitely!!! Actually, 10 gauge is light enough for a 100 amp > alternator. Usually the fusible link is nasty to solder too - it is > usually crimped. > From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 19:34:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA11125 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:34:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bud.nydev.com ([38.212.135.43]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA11121 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:34:31 -0500 Received: from bud by bud.nydev.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA21958; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:36:45 -0500 Message-ID: <36B8EB9D.5CBD@nydev.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:36:45 -0500 From: LS X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI CC: lens@nydev.com Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The Motec sensor is it the same as the LAF sensor that Honda uses. You know the one with pump cell control? In that case it should have 5 wires Cell Volatge input, Pump Cell Control, and Ref. Voltage those 3 for sensor part + 2 wires for heater part??? Look at http://www.splitsec.com/products/ego1/ego1ds.htm If Motec uses the same unit it is nothing more than volatge mapped, temperature compensated circuit with a fancier regular zirconium O2 sensor. Thanks Len From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 20:44:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA12363 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:44:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA12359 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:44:40 -0500 From: KD6JDJ@aol.com Received: from KD6JDJ@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id EMZOa05322 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:38:33 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <293ab3f.36b8fa19@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 20:38:33 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: fusible link questions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The fusable link is intended to protect the wiring harness from frying - through out the vehicle. It is the weakest link in the wiring 'chain'. They normally have a high temperature insulation that also protects any adjacent wires from being burned. It is not clear to me why you would need to put a fusible link in the wire that runs from the alternator + to the battery +. You sure dont want to "unload the alternator" while it is charging. And I asume that there are no other wires in series with that charging wire. I'd be glad to discuss this with you further , if needed. Jerry (some experience with charging systems) From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 21:03:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12655 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:03:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU (root@smtp.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.62]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12651 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:03:24 -0500 Received: from bert.WPI.EDU (root@bert.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.121]) by smtp.WPI.EDU (8.9.3.Beta0/8.9.3.Beta0) with ESMTP id VAA13922 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:03:12 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bobw@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bert.WPI.EDU (8.9.3.Beta0/8.9.3.Beta0) with ESMTP id VAA07468 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:03:12 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:03:11 -0500 (EST) From: Robert Scott Winnicki To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: any one played with MR2 superchargers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu subject says it all.... specifically, anyone ever taken one of these off the MR@ and used it somewhere else, like say a rotory. From what I've read about them they aren't to big, and have a very nice blowoff valve/SC bypass system built in. Plus they have the electronic cultch built in the pully. Any experts on these guys? my idea is to try to use one to spool up the turbo on a RX7, try to give it a little more low end. I have the SC it self (but none of the hoese and manifoilds from the MR2, plus I think my SC is in need of a rebuild. (It was a gift) any way... I'd like to talk to some one how knows them befor I go out and try to find a another one with all the hoeses still there. (plus from what I've heard they are hard to find.) bob From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 21:20:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13083 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:20:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13079 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:20:50 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.7] (p7.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.7]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA24414 for mail_from ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:20:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:20:48 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >The Motec sensor is it the same as the LAF sensor that Honda uses. >You know the one with pump cell control? In that case it should have >5 wires Cell Volatge input, Pump Cell Control, and Ref. Voltage >those 3 for sensor part + 2 wires for heater part??? Believe the MoTeC unit uses a Bosch sensor. Honda uses an NGK/NTK sensor. Regards, Greg > >Look at >http://www.splitsec.com/products/ego1/ego1ds.htm > >If Motec uses the same unit it is nothing more than volatge mapped, >temperature compensated circuit with a fancier regular zirconium O2 >sensor. > > > Thanks Len From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 21:40:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA13587 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com (mail1.cybersol.com [207.142.110.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13583 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:52 -0500 Received: from alfred ([208.25.96.239]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:40:44 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990203190741.0158edf0@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:07:41 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: Groan... Not another VIRUS alert.... In-Reply-To: <8525670D.0077936A.00@smtphq.orbital.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu John & group - Yeah, I know, nothing marks a newbie like forwarding a VIRUS ALERT!!!! However, I'm not a newbie and I DID receive this one (4x copies); several members of a dental mailing list I'm on RAN it, not too bright, but they did. Its technically not a virus, but a worm, that replicates itself till your hard disk has zero bytes left and performs other mayhem. Attaches itself to any outgoing email w/o the sender's knowledge. Interesting thing is that several of these folks have virus checkers running and *none* found anything amiss. The dark side still prevails...... FWIW - Barry At 04:49 PM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >I know. I know. It isn't really EFI related, but... ;) > >I don't usually forward virus warnings because they're usually hoaxes >but this one looks pretty dangerous, so a word to the wise.... From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 21:56:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14002 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:56:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m4.stny.lrun.com (m4.stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA13996 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:56:45 -0500 Received: from m5.stny.lrun.com (m5.stny.lrun.com [204.210.159.20]) by m4.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA02064 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:56:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from speedster (bing404h.stny.lrun.com [204.210.135.111]) by m5.stny.lrun.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_12836)/8.8.6) with SMTP id VAA13618 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:56:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <01da01be4fea$03fd8340$6f87d2cc@speedster.stny.lrun.com> From: "Thomas Matthews" To: Subject: Fuel injection cleaning tools Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:56:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone have a source for these FI cleaning tools, the ones that have a regulator valve and use a pressurized aerosol can? Summit used to sell these, but they have since discontinued these... TIA, Tom From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 21:59:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA14094 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:59:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.42]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA14089 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:59:16 -0500 Received: from king ([12.77.24.86]) by mtiwmhc07.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990204025854.BPKP20681@king> for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:58:54 +0000 Message-ID: <022b01be4fe9$cf5ff820$cf194d0c@king> From: "Jon Fedock" To: Subject: 808 Request Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:53:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello All, I have a request, hopefully someone here can help me out. I have 2 vehicles that I have transplanted TPI into. One is a 305/t-5 and the other is a 350/700r. I have a bad MAF on the 305, and would like to use this as an excuse to change over to a MAP style setup to eliminate some of my plumbing nightmare. Since I am using the 165 ECM, I am thinking of using a 808 calibration (ASBX ?). As I understand it, ASBX was for a 5.0L motor, so it should be pretty close? I can hadle the wiring differences. But not the Eprom. This is where it gets tricky. I don't have (or have access to) an EPROM burner. Would anyone on the list be willing to burn the required chip? I will pay for time, shipping, the chip itself, etc. Or, would I be better off to just go and get a 730 and a Memcal for a comparable Camaro/Firebird (More $$$)? My plan is to eventually put MAP on the other car also, but I know the calibration is probably too far off. One step at a time. Thanks for any input or correction, Jon Fedock From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 22:21:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA14718 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:21:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA14714 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:21:30 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-48.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.117]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA14321 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:21:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c201be4fed$e28baa80$75198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 808 Request Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:24:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Jon Fedock To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 10:10 PM Subject: 808 Request The info is out for editing what you need to do. All, you need is a burning program, eraser, some more reading and you can do your own. At this stage a custom is about the same as the materials for you so to all you want. Bruce >Hello All, > I have a request, hopefully someone here can help me out. I have 2 >vehicles that I have transplanted TPI into. One is a 305/t-5 and the other >is a 350/700r. I have a bad MAF on the 305, and would like to use this as an >excuse to change over to a MAP style setup to eliminate some of my plumbing >nightmare. Since I am using the 165 ECM, I am thinking of using a 808 >calibration (ASBX ?). As I understand it, ASBX was for a 5.0L motor, so it >should be pretty close? I can hadle the wiring differences. But not the >Eprom. This is where it gets tricky. I don't have (or have access to) an >EPROM burner. Would anyone on the list be willing to burn the required chip? >I will pay for time, shipping, the chip itself, etc. > Or, would I be better off to just go and get a 730 and a Memcal for a >comparable Camaro/Firebird (More $$$)? My plan is to eventually put MAP on >the other car also, but I know the calibration is probably too far off. One >step at a time. >Thanks for any input or correction, >Jon Fedock > From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 22:31:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA14934 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:31:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.problem.org (trends-gw.problem.com [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA14929 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:31:05 -0500 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m108FYp-0000ItC; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:34:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Subject: Re: any one played with MR2 superchargers? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:34:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: from "Robert Scott Winnicki" at Feb 3, 99 09:03:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > specifically, anyone ever taken one of these off the MR@ and used it > somewhere else, like say a rotory. From what I've read about them they > aren't to big, and have a very nice blowoff valve/SC bypass system built > in. Plus they have the electronic cultch built in the pully. Any experts > on these guys? my idea is to try to use one to spool up the turbo on a > RX7, try to give it a little more low end. I have the SC it self (but > none of the hoese and manifoilds from the MR2, plus I think my SC is in > need of a rebuild. (It was a gift) > > any way... I'd like to talk to some one how knows them befor I go out and > try to find a another one with all the hoeses still there. (plus from > what I've heard they are hard to find.) try asking this on the mr2 list (thnk its at mr2.com) let me know what you find out HKS does make a pulley for these that increases boost they probably do not flow enough air for a rotary you would need a charger large enough to feed a 5-6l engine to get a rotary to respond while maintaining a reasonable speed at the blower pulley but used chargers to fit a Mustang or GM Fbody are relatively easy to find used Clive From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 22:33:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15021 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:33:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.problem.org (trends-gw.problem.com [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15015 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:33:57 -0500 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m108Fbb-0000ItC; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:37:27 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Subject: Re: fusible link questions To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:37:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: <293ab3f.36b8fa19@aol.com> from "KD6JDJ@aol.com" at Feb 3, 99 08:38:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > The fusable link is intended to protect the wiring harness from frying - > through out the vehicle. It is the weakest link in the wiring 'chain'. They > normally have a high temperature insulation that also protects any adjacent > wires from being burned. > > It is not clear to me why you would need to put a fusible link in the wire > that runs from the alternator + to the battery +. You sure dont want to > "unload the alternator" while it is charging. And I asume that there are no > other wires in series with that charging wire. > > I'd be glad to discuss this with you further , if needed. somtimes the diode pack will short out and drain the battery or start a fire Clive From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 22:35:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15075 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:35:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [205.247.203.87] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15071 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:35:00 -0500 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [205.247.203.67]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:38:49 -0500 Received: from [205.247.202.69] by grolen.com id b4440.wrk; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:34:08 EDT Message-ID: <36B91428.8F37CDF5@grolen.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 22:29:44 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fusible link questions References: <3.0.3.32.19990203153823.006b4dd0@mail.ot.centuryinter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Clarence Wood wrote: Yes. In fact, I found a reference in a GM manual which says a maximum length of 9" or no protection's afforded. Also, some confusion on my part as to 4 wire gauge sizes or 2, basically it's written different ways in different books, but the end result is the same. 10 ga wire gets 14 ga link. Last but not least, GM manuals give wiring sizes in metric, fusible links are available in AWG. Handy conversion chart is not so handily buried in the beginning of the electrical section of the GM service manual. Shannen > Just installed a 100 amp altenator and the guy at the shop who sold me the unit told me to run a line of fusible link (14 Ga) from the Bat. terminal on the alternator to the positive terminal of the batery. The length of fusible link needed was about 4 ft. long. Should I have ran a 3ft 9in wire of 10 Ga and then soldered in a 3 inch piece of 14 Ga fusible link? > > Clarence > > At 01:49 PM 2/3/99 -0600, you wrote: > >GM shop manuals have a chart for fuse link applications and repair of blown > >links. The manual indicates that the fuse link should be 4 wire sizes > >smaller than the wire being protected. The only real problem with fuse links > >is when the crimps become corroded and > >heat up due to high resistance. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 22:40:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA15310 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:40:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA15304 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:40:48 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-48.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.117]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.1/8.9.1 ComNet Build) with SMTP id WAA14213; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:40:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c701be4ff0$96129c60$75198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: Injector Pulse Withs Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:43:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a bunch of work, so here it is. An actual table of injector pulse widths from a MAP 350 SBC, 92 MY auto MAP 10 20 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 RPM 500 .4 .7 .7 .7 2.8.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1000 .5 .7 1.3 1.7 2.2 1.9>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1500 0 1.5 1.8 2.4 1.5>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2000 0 0 2.0 2.4 1.3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2500 0 0 2.7 2.8 2.7>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3000 0 .7 2.1 3.1 3.4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3500 .4 .8 2.1 2.8 3.5 4.3 4.9 5.5 .1 6.7 7.2 8.6 9.3 9.3 10.3 10.9 4000 same as above This is a PE type program, so there is an adder VE that is applied at WOT. YOUR TABLE WILL LOOK DIFERENT then this, this is but one view at a spec coolant temp at a specif ait. For someone who has nothing to start with this is something to look at. Cheers Bruce From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 23:17:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16150 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:17:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16146 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:17:48 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-109.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.109]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA146434 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:17:46 GMT Message-ID: <36B91F91.612C@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:18:26 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Tim Drury article References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -- > > From: wmcdonal@hutch.com.au [SMTP:wmcdonal@hutch.com.au] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 7:46 AM > > To: 'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > > Subject: RE: Tim Drury article > > > > I have a copy of the article and can scan/ocr it in if anyone needs it. > > > > Wayne. > > Send me one too, please. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 23:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16341 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:22:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16336 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:22:22 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2K9FWQK; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:21:39 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:19:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Smooth strategy) Message-ID: <19990203.002122.15886.10.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-4,6-13,15-16,18-27,29-30,32,34-38,40-48 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:06:08 -0700 bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) writes: >>Greg Hermann wrote: >> >>> >>> No way--a two element torque converter is a violation of Newton's laws!! >>> >>> Regards, Greg >>Then what do you call a 3 element fluid coupling? The torque >multiplier >>in the early hydramatic did not make it a torque converter - it was >>still a fluid coupling because it had tangential vanes. This was used >>on some Pontiac Hydros. >>The curved vanes of the torque converter reroute the oil to the backside >>of the pump instead of the front side - thereby increasing torque. The >>addition of the stator in a torque converter is much more effective than >>a multiplier in a fluid coupling for this reason. >>Don't believe me - go get a good automotive mechanics text book - >>preferably from the era when fluid couplings were not ancient history >>and check it out. >> >>An old fossil who's actually seen, driven, and worked on them. > >And how many legs does a cow have if you call it's tail a leg?? > >Correct answer is either one or five, depending on the level of abstraction!! > >Very simply, there is no way to put more torque in to an output shaft whan >what comes into the input shaft unless some part of the "contraption" puts >a reaction torque into the case. PERIOD. > >"Every action must have an equal and opposite reaction." "The sum of the moments around any point is zero" to quote a basic statics book. > >Not even Einstein altered that one!! > >Regards, Greg > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 23:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16346 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:22:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16340 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:22:22 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D2K9FVWZ; Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:21:38 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:51:05 -0500 Subject: Re: More UEGO stuff Message-ID: <19990203.002122.15886.2.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <00ef01be4e6e$2be43de0$d17d18cb@mainpc> <19990201.233022.4630.2.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-6,8,10,12-25,27,29,31-36,38-45,47-61 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well... I guess if your goal is to use extra parts, it makes sense. Truthfully, though, I can't think of any advantage to doing it that way. I'm not into Rube Goldberg devices. Ray On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 06:48:47 -0600 Steve Gorkowski writes: >They are probably using a digital control loop ( read the voltage with adc, >set the current with dac ). Regulating heater wattage also. Just another way >of controlling this sensor. When you have lots of margin dollars in the >product and a team working on it full time it would make sense . > >Steve > >Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >> On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:37:48 +1100 "Ross Myers" > >> writes: >> > >> > >> >>Hi all, >> >> I checked out the motec site (autronics also sell one) but these >> >>are too expensive for me .That is why I was hoping one could be built (even >> >>as a kit) at a fraction of the cost.Motecs unit is just right with the >> >>screen and sensor. >> >>Some of us race people are on tight budgets! >> >>PAUL >> > >> > >> >I know what you are saying Paul, but my point was if they felt the need for >> >a 32bit micro to run the thing something must be tricky. >> > >> >Regards >> > >> >Ross Myers >> >> Either that, or they want you to believe that it's tricky and pay the >> $$$$. Even if there is a pressure and thermal sensor, it wouldn't take >> much processing power to calculate a true lambda reading from all of >> that. Even if they are doing data logging... >> >> Ray >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at >http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 23:27:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16543 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:27:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16539 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:27:13 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-109.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.109]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA41568 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:27:10 GMT Message-ID: <36B921C8.45B4@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:27:52 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: TC's and manual trans (was: Re: Smooth strategy) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg Hermann wrote: > Very simply, there is no way to put more torque in to an output shaft whan > what comes into the input shaft unless some part of the "contraption" puts > a reaction torque into the case. PERIOD. > > "Every action must have an equal and opposite reaction." > > Not even Einstein altered that one!! > > Regards, Greg To which I reply: Not everything is as it would seem it should be to others. Just becauce YOU choose to call a cow a horse just because it can pull a cart does not make it so - if the rest of the world calls it an ox. The accepted definition is as I relayed it. I didn't make it up. I didn't write the dictionary. I didn't write the text. Tell Wm Crouse to his face that he and his team of experts are wrong - don't tell me. That said, enough is enough so now let's get back to what this group is (supposedly) all about and start squirting gas instead of passing it. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 23:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA16605 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:28:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA16600 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:28:05 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-109.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.109]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA122566 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:28:01 GMT Message-ID: <36B921FB.2DE5@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:28:43 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fusible link questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James Weiler wrote: > > Hmmm, I just soldered in a few last night and had no problems. It > soldered like regular wire does. Have I missed something here? > > jw > > On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Clarence L.Snyder wrote: > > > Most definitely!!! Actually, 10 gauge is light enough for a 100 amp > > alternator. Usually the fusible link is nasty to solder too - it is > > usually crimped. > > Some solder relatively well - some are almost unsolderable. From diy_efi-owner Wed Feb 3 23:42:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17011 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:42:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out5.ibm.net (out5.ibm.net [165.87.194.243]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17007 for ; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:42:09 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-109.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.109]) by out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA47372 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 04:42:07 GMT Message-ID: <36B92549.2FA1@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 23:42:49 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector Pulse Withs References: <00c701be4ff0$96129c60$75198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > This is a bunch of work, so here it is. An actual table of injector pulse > widths from a MAP 350 SBC, 92 MY auto > MAP 10 20 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 > RPM > 500 .4 .7 .7 .7 2.8.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1000 .5 .7 1.3 1.7 2.2 1.9>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 1500 0 1.5 1.8 2.4 1.5>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 2000 0 0 2.0 2.4 1.3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 2500 0 0 2.7 2.8 2.7>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 3000 0 .7 2.1 3.1 3.4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > 3500 .4 .8 2.1 2.8 3.5 4.3 4.9 5.5 .1 6.7 7.2 8.6 9.3 9.3 10.3 10.9 > 4000 same as above > > Thanks Bruce! The RPM and MS are clear - exactly what units were used for MAP? From diy_efi-owner Thu Feb 4 00:43:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA18048 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:43:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au (n9480320@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au [137.154.156.194]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA18043 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 00:43:24 -0500 Received: from localhost by garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA20534 for ; Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:43:23 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:43:22 +1100 (EST) From: Steve Sassine To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fusible link questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > > > > The fusable link is intended to protect the wiring harness from frying - > > through out the vehicle. It is the weakest link in the wiring 'chain'. They > > normally have a high temperature insulation that also protects any adjacent > > wires from being burned. > > > > It is not clear to me why you would need to put a fusible link in the wire > > that runs from the alternator + to the battery +. You sure dont want to > > "unload the alternator" while it is charging. And I asume that there are no > > other wires in series with that charging wire. > > > >