From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 06:10:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA15580 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:10:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA15561 for diy_efi; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:10:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 06:10:01 -0500 From: John S Gwynne Message-Id: <199903011110.GAA15561@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. 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WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 07:26:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA16359 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:26:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from q45a.bytes.net (root@q45a.bytes.net [205.147.64.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA16355 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:26:02 -0500 Received: from bytes.net (stl-max21-link-143.tetranet.net [206.42.249.143]) by q45a.bytes.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA06427 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 04:25:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36DA8750.5D67CD47@bytes.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 06:25:52 -0600 From: DC Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Web Page Update Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Finally got a couple of days off.. With my work schedule, and maintaining/building the fleet of vehicles I have in my driveway, (yes, they all run) :) I haven't had much time for email lately. Soooo.. yesterday I FINALLY got a chance to update my web page a little. I hadn't made any changes since the fall of 1997, and it was severely outdated, as far as my car goes. The main page is pretty much the same, but http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral/mycar.htm now has some pretty fair pictures of my turbo V-6 Buick motor. I took the pictures last july while I was converting the car to the 86/7 Turbo Regal setup. The parts, with the exception of the 3" downpipe and 36 lb injectors, are all stock GM pieces. (this page is not for the modem impaired) I have no dbouts this car would run high 11's in this cool air, since it ran 12 teens in the 1/4 mile in 80 degree weather. The race track opens here april 4th.. :) Keep in mind, I pieced this car together, one bolt at a time. I also have a (rather large) picture someone sent me of the MAF translator used to convert the MAF signal from a Delco LT-1 MAF to work on the 7148 ECM in the 86/7 GN's and T's. This is at: http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral/maftrans.htm Check it out! (this page isn't linked anywhere) BTW, with my email address change, I keep getting 2 of all the list posts. Could someone stop email from going to dcsmith@gnttype.org It's been a few weeks since I unsubscribed that address. Thanks! PS. If anything doesn't work, let me know, please. *********************************************************************** Dan Smith 84 Regal 12.13@112 GSCA# 1459 St.Charles, Missouri mailto:dcsmith@bytes.net mailto:dcsmith@gnttype.org mailto:morepoweral@bytes.net mailto:morepoweral@gnttype.org mailto:morepoweral@tetranet.net mailto:smithd@fsi023.flightsafety.com http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral *********************************************************************** From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 08:10:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16930 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:10:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16926 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:10:33 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-24.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.42]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id IAA06067 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:10:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008f01be63e5$51d61dc0$2a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Web Page Update Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:13:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I someone would send me a copy of this page I'd appreciate it. I can't get there from here Thanks Bruce > I also have a (rather large) picture someone sent me of the MAF >translator used to convert the MAF signal from a Delco LT-1 MAF to work >on the 7148 ECM in the 86/7 GN's and T's. This is at: >http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral/maftrans.htm From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 08:54:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA17478 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:54:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from smtp2.casema.net (root@ns1.casema.net [195.96.96.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA17473 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:54:10 -0500 Received: from casema.net (2dyn57.soest.casema.net [195.96.101.57]) by smtp2.casema.net (8.9.1/CASEMA) with ESMTP id OAA21648 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:54:08 +0100 Posted-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:54:08 +0100 Message-ID: <36DA9C04.821E7E46@casema.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:54:12 +0100 From: Marcel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Electronic AFM adjustments & large injectors. References: <199903011000.FAA14871@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Clarence L.Snyder wrote: > Partly right - partly wrong. It will work as you say untill the airflow > maxes out the AFM - then it gets non-linear real fast. But, when I have this offset adjustment tool, I can adapt ANY natural log AFM to work well, including ones that flow enough! Do different capacity AFM's max out at different voltages or do they add a scaling factor to this "ln flow" formula to fit within the 0-5V range? I'd have to adjust that scaling factor too, if I want to adapt a different AFM. That might make things a bit more complicated. Anyone know at what hp level stock Toyota 4A-GE (redhat) AFM's max out? I know the injectors will at about 140-150hp, but when does the AFM? Of course if I take care of all this and publish the details with schematic, we'd have a nice universal mod package for ppl who want to retain most factory stuff (like me) and still get better mixture spread than with spring tension adjustments. thanks, Marcel From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 09:12:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17926 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:12:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com ([207.142.110.135]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17922 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:12:07 -0500 Received: from alfred ([207.142.175.30]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:11:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990301091036.00736e2c@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:10:36 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: Newbie ALDL question In-Reply-To: <618f2f9f.36be7313@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bill - Managed to get the ALDL interface working quite well - are you still interested in this project? I'm using a QuickBasic program to read the data - had no luck w/ GCAR. BTW, in your last letter, you referenced using "4 diodes" in the MAX232 circuit - should those be transistors (2N3904)? I used a MAX233 chip - no external caps; '04 inverter not needed. Get *lots* of data out, now just have to correlate it w/ what my scan tool reads. Any collaboration gladly accepted! Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 09:18:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18105 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com ([207.142.110.135]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18101 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:05 -0500 Received: from alfred ([207.142.175.35]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:00 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990301091719.00736e74@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:17:19 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: ALDL project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? Got the interface put together, works great, reading the ALDL data w/ QuickBasic program - just have to work out which numbers mean what. I'm reading a '91 GM ECU (Syclone). Anyone know what data is what? I was thinking of pots or 555s on the various sensors, but maybe someone already has the answers. Thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 09:44:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA18739 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:44:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-81.s18.as1.brp.erols.com [207.172.226.81]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA18735 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:44:35 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00293 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:44:34 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:44:33 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903011444.JAA00293@webserver> Message-ID: <36DAA6AF.1C54AAE9@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:39:43 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ALDL project References: <3.0.1.32.19990301091719.00736e74@smtp.cybersol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? I haven't worked on it in a while, it went to the way side as I'm doing up a Mopar block now, got sucked into a jeep project, and about 400 other things. I'm interested in it without a doubt. Can you send me a small sample of the data? I'd like to take a look if you don't mind... -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 09:55:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA19014 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:55:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA19008 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:55:02 -0500 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01763; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:54:53 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:54:53 -0500 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EFI for Propane In-Reply-To: <19990226.021106.15334.5.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:57:27 -0500 > From: Raymond C Drouillard > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: EFI for Propane > > > >....What about cooling the lpg to a point where its liquid, then we > >could use regular efi injectors, we dont have to create a box that must > >regulate injection time for the variable pressure that temperature is > doing > > > >for lpg fuel pressure.Can a Lucas disc type injector cope with the > >pressure? > >What about two injectors in series?One ontop of the other? > >I have been thinking of just pumping twostroke oil into the lpg tank > >to get a mix. > >Espen Hilde > > I was thinking of feeding the liquid into the injecter at perhaps 330 > PSI, and using something similar to a diesel injecter on the other end > that opens at 300 PSI. That way the injecter would see a 30 PSI it may be more then 300psi require to keep the propane liquid, and a pump would be needed to get the liquid to the warm end of the fuel system > difference in pressures, and be dealing with a warm liquid. The standard > injecter would be used as a valve, and the propane would vaporize once it > leaves the injecter (regulater or whatever you want to call it). > > I would rather have an injecter that can handle the 300 PSI without such > a jerry rig, though. on the way home I was thinking about this and a major problem would be vapour lock the vapour pressure of gas is less then propane just my $0.02 > Ray > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 10:18:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19650 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:18:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19644 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:18:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07169 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:14 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:14 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Newbie ALDL question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990301091036.00736e2c@smtp.cybersol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Barry Tisdale wrote: > Bill - > > Managed to get the ALDL interface working quite well - are you still interested in this project? I'm using a QuickBasic program to read the data - had no luck w/ GCAR. BTW, in your last letter, you referenced using "4 diodes" in the MAX232 circuit - should those be transistors (2N3904)? I used a MAX233 chip - no external caps; '04 inverter not needed. > > Get *lots* of data out, now just have to correlate it w/ what my scan tool reads. > > Any collaboration gladly accepted! > > Barry > I don't know about the syclone, but something useful, diacom appears to store the data stream exactly as it comes of the interface in their data files. I have a ALDL spec for my car, and using that spec I was able to get meaningful data out of the diacom data file. Also, there will be two bytes at the front of each data stream, that will be the prom id, it will be repeated at the beginning of each set of data, then there are typically several bytes of data that are error flags (trouble codes, usually all zeros if everything is good). There should be a spec for the syclone, someone did send me a spec for my car (93 Z28), and it does seem to be correct, because I have been able to decode meaningful data from the diacom data files (things that weren't displayed, or not displayed accurate enough). Roger From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 10:19:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA19689 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:19:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA19684 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:19:25 -0500 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA03216; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:19:20 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:19:20 -0500 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Speed Sensor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Benjamin Marsh wrote: > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:41:44 +1100 (EST) > From: Benjamin Marsh > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Speed Sensor > > > The L-jet in my Soob is giving a fault code 33 which corresponds to > a speed sensor in the workshop manual - I have pulled the dash out to > try and find it. The closest thing I can find is a 3" long plastic > strip with metal tabs at each end and a thing in the middle that kinda > looks like a high voltage light bulb. Is this the speed sensor? ii so soobies tended to have the sensors in the speedo head but what you describe sounds like the reed switch sensor they used > will just replacing it fix the problem or is the speed sensor somewhere > else that I haven't looked. > > When driving at moderate load I can feel the car slightly shudder and > then the ECS light comes on - is the speed sensor at fault or is it > a sort of limp home mode thing on the comp? The car feels to go a lot > better when the ECS light is off rather than on... is the car spfi ( throttle body ) if it is check the reluctor in the distributer, they had problems there otherwise I'd look at the afm > > Car is a 1987 Leone RX Turbo dooh then it's mpfi. > Ben > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 10:58:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA20643 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:58:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA20639 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:58:57 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id JAA00424; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:58:57 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma000356; Mon, 1 Mar 99 09:58:14 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA05448; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:58:12 -0600 Message-ID: <36DAB88C.E50A8562@arm.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:55:56 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Propane EFI References: <36d91719.980500@smtp.uia.net> <36D852B5.D1FE68CC@ipa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu "Jeffrey T. Birt" wrote: > > Yeah I've heard of people using it to replace freon. I've also heard of AC > systems BLOWING UP because of it. Try it at your own risk. Just my two-cents. We've all heard of cars blowing up because of it. Ever seen one? Besides the movies, I mean? What do you suppose was used before freon was invented? Hydrocarbons and ammonia. Does it bother you that you carry 100 pounds of gasoline with you, complete with an electric pump that can supply gallons per minute to an engine fire? Just because the EPA says it's bad, doesn't mean that it's bad. --steve -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 11:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20833 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:06:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arl.arizona.edu (mail.arl.Arizona.EDU [128.196.108.45]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20829 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:06:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (tyuhas@localhost) by mail.arl.arizona.edu (8.9.2/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id JAA29951 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:11:02 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:11:01 -0700 (MST) From: Terrill Yuhas To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: GM IAC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu First off, I want to thank all those who helped me with suggestions on my rough idle/idle hunting problem with a GM 3.1L V6. Turns out the IAC was pretty varnished up. After a good bead blasting :-) , all was assembled and things are working much better. Of course there was a tense moment (pucker factor: 7), when while cleaning out the throttle body, I shot the cleaner straw into the intake. What's the minimum requirements for this cone-shaped-hat club again? Anyhow, my question is that the manuals I have (Haynes and the bigger Chilton's model specific guide) mention an O-ring for the IAC. I didn't find any O-ring or gasket of any sort. It was just plastic on aluminum. Should this be the case? I don't have the full story on how the IAC functions but maybe this could explain the degradation at idle when the engine is hot with the different material expansion rates. Dunno...just thinking out loud so sorry if that sounds really dumb. Thanks! Terrill From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 11:09:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20935 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:09:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20930 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:09:09 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.19] (p19.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.19]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA21911 for mail_from ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:09:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:09:06 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: EFI for Propane Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:57:27 -0500 >> From: Raymond C Drouillard >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re: EFI for Propane >> >> >> >....What about cooling the lpg to a point where its liquid, then we >> >could use regular efi injectors, we dont have to create a box that must >> >regulate injection time for the variable pressure that temperature is >> doing >> > >> >for lpg fuel pressure.Can a Lucas disc type injector cope with the >> >pressure? >> >What about two injectors in series?One ontop of the other? >> >I have been thinking of just pumping twostroke oil into the lpg tank >> >to get a mix. >> >Espen Hilde >> >> I was thinking of feeding the liquid into the injecter at perhaps 330 >> PSI, and using something similar to a diesel injecter on the other end >> that opens at 300 PSI. That way the injecter would see a 30 PSI > >it may be more then 300psi require to keep the propane liquid, and a pump >would be needed to get the liquid to the warm end of the fuel system > >> difference in pressures, and be dealing with a warm liquid. The standard >> injecter would be used as a valve, and the propane would vaporize once it >> leaves the injecter (regulater or whatever you want to call it). Trouble is, it will begin to vaporize (flash) on its way through the injector. Greg >> >> I would rather have an injecter that can handle the 300 PSI without such >> a jerry rig, though. > >on the way home I was thinking about this and a major problem would be >vapour lock the vapour pressure of gas is less then propane > > >just my $0.02 > >> Ray >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> > >Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com >QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com >(613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews >(613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 11:14:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21203 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:14:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arl.arizona.edu (mail.arl.Arizona.EDU [128.196.108.45]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21198 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:14:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (tyuhas@localhost) by mail.arl.arizona.edu (8.9.2/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id JAA29975 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:57 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:18:56 -0700 (MST) From: Terrill Yuhas To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ALDL project In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990301091719.00736e74@smtp.cybersol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm interested in it. This is the interface at http://www.mindspring.com/~amattei/aldl.htm , right? Terrill On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Barry Tisdale wrote: > Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? > > Got the interface put together, works great, reading the ALDL data w/ QuickBasic program - just have to work out which numbers mean what. I'm reading a '91 GM ECU (Syclone). Anyone know what data is what? I was thinking of pots or 555s on the various sensors, but maybe someone already has the answers. > > Thanks - Barry > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 11:17:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21306 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:17:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com ([207.142.110.135]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21302 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:17:45 -0500 Received: from alfred ([207.142.175.32]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:17:43 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990301111653.006bfce8@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 11:16:53 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: ALDL project In-Reply-To: <36DAA6AF.1C54AAE9@xephic.dynip.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19990301091719.00736e74@smtp.cybersol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey, Fredrick, hello again - I'll have to xfer the data from my other computer - just have screen shots right now, will write the 'data save' maybe tonight. Basically, lots of numbers - raw data; w/o the scaling factors applied, pretty meaningless. Using Basic routines rather than assembly, seems fast enough. Have to tweak the hardware a bit to do it this way, though. TTYL - Barry At 02:39 PM 3/1/99 +0000, you wrote: >> Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? > >I haven't worked on it in a while, it went to the way side >as I'm doing up a Mopar block now, got sucked into a jeep >project, and about 400 other things. I'm interested in it >without a doubt. > >Can you send me a small sample of the data? I'd like to >take a look if you don't mind... > >-- >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport, CT 06606 From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 12:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22849 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:07:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22845 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:07:41 -0500 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA24841; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:07:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 88256727.005D9B31 ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:02:25 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: Benjamin Marsh Message-ID: <88256727.005D999A.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:01:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Speed Sensor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> There are three different types of "speed sensors" on most Euro cars. One is the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), which is usually mounted to the tranny on FWD cars (and sends pulsed signals to the ECU). This one is used for speedo readings, and eliminates the need for a speedo cable. I doubt you car uses this! The second type is the individual wheel speed sensor used on ABS equipped vehicles. composed of a gapped wheel (or race) and a magnetic pick up. Every wheel has this combo, if 4 channel ABS is present. Probably not applicable to your car... The third type often used is the engine speed sensor. This measures the engine rpm (and can determine the angular timing of the crank, or position). Most are composed of a 60 toothed wheel bolted to the crank, and a magnetic pick up (sometimes an optical one is used). E30 model BMWs had a factory toothed crank wheel/crank pulley that was outside the block. Late model VWs have an internal toothed wheel bolted to the crank, inside of the block (flywheel end). VWs happen to read TDC off of the trailing edge of the 13th tooth, other cars are similar. This rpm signal goes to the ECU, get's processed...then the ECU sends a different signal to the instrument cluster (Tachometer). The engine speed sensor will be in the engine bay. If it's an internal crank wheel, the sensor will be mounted into the block and will look like a knock sensor...but will be mounted much lower in the block. If you have an external crank wheel, it will be plainly visible off to the side of the crank pulley. However, the L-Jetronic system might not have what I'm talking about. I'd have to thumb through my Bosch FI book to figure that out. It's been awhile since I owned one of those cars. =) <> He he. Tell me more about this "Leone" car. Good name, I must say. Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 12:14:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23006 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:14:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23002 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:14:39 -0500 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01J8BB9RAZXS0000FM@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:14:36 CDT Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 09:52:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Propane EFI To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <589539.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Yeah I've heard of people using it to replace freon. I've also heard -> of AC systems BLOWING UP because of it. Try it at your own risk. -> Just my two-cents. Ah, yes. MACS propaganda, on the level of spontaneous human combustion. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 13:06:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24219 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:06:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24215 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:06:09 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-21.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.90]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA08237 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:06:08 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00df01be640e$9ceab5e0$5a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GM IAC Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:09:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >What's the minimum requirements for this >cone-shaped-hat club again? If you repeat something silly 4-5 times before ya remember it, damage something, or if you let the smoke out of three devices all at once that is an instant winner. > >Anyhow, my question is that the manuals I have (Haynes and the bigger >Chilton's model specific guide) mention an O-ring for the IAC. I didn't >find any O-ring or gasket of any sort. It was just plastic on aluminum. >Should this be the case? Some use gaskets, If there is one I use it, if not I don't go outta my way to replace it. The IAC is a stepper motor, and the ecm counts pulses sent to it for up/down idle. So if it get gummy and slows down in reaction to these pulses the amount of air bypassed is wrong. Bruce I don't have the full story on how the IAC >functions but maybe this could explain the degradation at idle when the >engine is hot with the different material expansion rates. Dunno...just >thinking out loud so sorry if that sounds really dumb. >Thanks! >Terrill From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 13:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24587 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:22:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24583 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:22:58 -0500 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA11879; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:22:57 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:22:57 -0500 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Speed Sensor In-Reply-To: <88256727.005D999A.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 1 Mar 1999 Jason_Leone@amat.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:01:11 -0800 > From: Jason_Leone@amat.com > To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu > Cc: Benjamin Marsh > Subject: Re: Speed Sensor > > < a speed sensor in the workshop manual - I have pulled the dash out to > try and find it. The closest thing I can find is a 3" long plastic > strip with metal tabs at each end and a thing in the middle that kinda > looks like a high voltage light bulb. Is this the speed sensor? ii so > will just replacing it fix the problem or is the speed sensor somewhere > else that I haven't looked.>> > > There are three different types of "speed sensors" on most Euro cars. One is the > Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), which is usually mounted to the tranny on FWD cars > (and sends pulsed signals to the ECU). This one is used for speedo readings, and > eliminates the need for a speedo cable. I doubt you car uses this! on subarus the vss is on the back of the speedometer ( even on the gl-10 digital dash) > > The second type is the individual wheel speed sensor used on ABS equipped > vehicles. composed of a gapped wheel (or race) and a magnetic pick up. Every > wheel has this combo, if 4 channel ABS is present. Probably not applicable to > your car... not on 87 sub's > The third type often used is the engine speed sensor. This measures the engine > rpm (and can determine the angular timing of the crank, or position). Most are > composed of a 60 toothed wheel bolted to the crank, and a magnetic pick up > (sometimes an optical one is used). E30 model BMWs had a factory toothed crank > wheel/crank pulley that was outside the block. Late model VWs have an internal > toothed wheel bolted to the crank, inside of the block (flywheel end). VWs > happen to read TDC off of the trailing edge of the 13th tooth, other cars are > similar. This rpm signal goes to the ECU, get's processed...then the ECU sends a > different signal to the instrument cluster (Tachometer). this sensor is in the distributor, try removing the dist cap and check the radial play on the dist. shaft. I think the dist on the 87 4x4 and turbos was an optical interrupter if it is clean it out w/ brake cleaner and compressed air. > > The engine speed sensor will be in the engine bay. If it's an internal crank > wheel, the sensor will be mounted into the block and will look like a knock > sensor...but will be mounted much lower in the block. If you have an external > crank wheel, it will be plainly visible off to the side of the crank pulley. it's in the dist > > However, the L-Jetronic system might not have what I'm talking about. I'd have > to thumb through my Bosch FI book to figure that out. It's been awhile since I > owned one of those cars. =) > from 84 to 90 I was a mechanic at a Subaru, Saab, bmw dealership in Kingston ( di you know bmw stands for broken motor works) > <> the rx's were fun I wish I had one 8-( > > He he. Tell me more about this "Leone" car. Good name, I must say. > in Canada this was just called a subaru ( it was around this time the second model line was brought into canada ((the justy))) > Jason > '93 SLC > > > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 13:33:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24829 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:33:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail3.lig (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24825 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:33:17 -0500 Received: from bellsouth.net (host-209-215-5-69.gso.bellsouth.net [209.215.5.69]) by mail3.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07645 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:33:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36DADD68.178E067@bellsouth.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 13:33:12 -0500 From: Bryan Moody X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Electronic AFM adjustments & large injectors. References: <199903011000.FAA14871@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <36DA9C04.821E7E46@casema.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I like your idea. Let me know how it works. Marcel wrote: > > Clarence L.Snyder wrote: > > > Partly right - partly wrong. It will work as you say untill the airflow > > maxes out the AFM - then it gets non-linear real fast. > > But, when I have this offset adjustment tool, I can adapt > ANY natural log AFM to work well, including ones that flow enough! > > Do different capacity AFM's max out at different voltages or do they > add a scaling factor to this "ln flow" formula to fit within the 0-5V > range? > > I'd have to adjust that scaling factor too, if I want to adapt a > different AFM. That might make things a bit more complicated. > > Anyone know at what hp level stock Toyota 4A-GE (redhat) AFM's > max out? I know the injectors will at about 140-150hp, but > when does the AFM? > > Of course if I take care of all this and publish the details > with schematic, we'd have a nice universal mod package for > ppl who want to retain most factory stuff (like me) and still > get better mixture spread than with spring tension adjustments. > > thanks, > > Marcel -- Bryan Moody Greensboro, NC 86 Concours COG Southeast Area Director http://www.concours.org/se IBA: BBG, CCC Gold From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 14:41:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26160 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:41:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26156 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:41:00 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-131.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.131]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA42790 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:40:58 GMT Message-ID: <36DAED57.4666@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:41:11 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Speed Sensor References: <88256727.005D999A.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What you have found is likely a magnetic reed switch, which is often used as a speed sensor, built more or less into the speedo. Put an ohmmeter on it and turn the speedo cable, the ohmeter should go back and forth between 0 ohms and infinity. From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 15:49:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27282 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:49:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27278 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:49:01 -0500 Received: from cruzers.com (surf27.cruzers.com [205.215.232.27]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02805 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:02:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36DAFD5E.D2731044@cruzers.com> Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 12:49:38 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu David A. Cooley wrote: > Looking to find any info on a 730 ECM in a 1987 Buick Somerset Regal, 2.5L > 4cyl... That's a strange combination. The Somerset Regal is just a Grand Am (N body), right? If so, it should probably have a '748 with the 2.5. The '730 would imply a 2.8, or perhaps a 2.0. > Any one have table locations etc? My brother just bought one and wants me > to help him pump it up a bit. We need more information - a P4 ECM can have many different table arrangements. What is the 8th byte of the EPROM? -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 19:02:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA29755 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:02:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gdi4.gdi.net (root@gdi4.gdi.net [209.26.2.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA29750 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:02:01 -0500 Received: from bigden (usr6-02.gdi.net [209.26.117.130]) by gdi4.gdi.net (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28110 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:05:59 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990301190139.0084bad0@gdi.net> X-Sender: padgett@gdi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 19:01:39 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Padgett 0sirius Subject: Re: GM IAC In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Anyhow, my question is that the manuals I have (Haynes and the bigger >Chilton's model specific guide) mention an O-ring for the IAC. I didn't >find any O-ring or gasket of any sort. It was just plastic on aluminum. Well is an air seal that does not get particularly hot so almost anything will work. Once used a gasket made from a paper bag for a seal & it worked fine. Will need to reset after installation. A. Padgett Peterson, P.E. Cybernetic Psychophysicist Anti-Virus, Cryptographics, & Antique Radio Researcher http://www.freivald.org/~padgett/index.html mailto:padgett@gdi.net PGP 5.5 Key on request From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 19:46:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA30375 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:46:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from host.kenelec.com.au (host.kenelec.com.au [203.27.242.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA30369 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:46:39 -0500 Received: from stuart.kenelec.com.au (stuart [203.27.242.104]) by host.kenelec.com.au (8.8.8/SCO5) with SMTP id KAA28107 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:43:28 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199903020043.KAA28107@host.kenelec.com.au> X-Sender: stuart@kenelec.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 11:42:56 +1100 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Stuart Bunning Subject: Re: Newbie ALDL question In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990301091036.00736e2c@smtp.cybersol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is anyone willing to email me a copy of that Qbasic program for 8192 aldl I am about to start writing qbasic code to do the exact thing myself so i though maybe someone is willing to share there eye bleeding hours of programming with me for free?????? At 09:18 AM 1/3/99 -0600, you wrote: > > >On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Barry Tisdale wrote: > >> Bill - >> >> Managed to get the ALDL interface working quite well - are you still interested in this project? I'm using a QuickBasic program to read the data - had no luck w/ GCAR. BTW, in your last letter, you referenced using "4 diodes" in the MAX232 circuit - should those be transistors (2N3904)? I used a MAX233 chip - no external caps; '04 inverter not needed. >> >> Get *lots* of data out, now just have to correlate it w/ what my scan tool reads. >> >> Any collaboration gladly accepted! >> >> Barry >> >I don't know about the syclone, but something useful, diacom appears >to store the data stream exactly as it comes of the interface in their >data files. I have a ALDL spec for my car, and using that spec I >was able to get meaningful data out of the diacom data file. Also, >there will be two bytes at the front of each data stream, that will be >the prom id, it will be repeated at the beginning of each set of data, >then there are typically several bytes of data that are error flags >(trouble codes, usually all zeros if everything is good). > >There should be a spec for the syclone, someone did send me a spec for >my car (93 Z28), and it does seem to be correct, because I have been >able to decode meaningful data from the diacom data files (things that >weren't displayed, or not displayed accurate enough). > > Roger > Best Regards, STUART BUNNING SALES ENGINEER KENELEC SCIENTIFIC PTY LTD 23-25 REDLAND DRIVE MITCHAM VICTORIA 3132 AUSTRALIA PHONE: 61 3 9873 1022 FAX: 61 3 9873 0200 EMAIL: stuart@kenelec.com.au WEB: http://www.kenelec.com.au/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 20:00:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA30780 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:00:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA30775 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:00:58 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-21.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.90]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id UAA20894 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:00:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701be6448$8dea0660$5a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:03:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Ludis Langens To: Diy_efi Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:03 PM Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... I thought that wasn't a valid way to ID proms. Bruce >> Looking to find any info on a 730 ECM in a 1987 Buick Somerset Regal, 2.5L >> 4cyl... >That's a strange combination. The Somerset Regal is just a Grand Am (N >body), right? If so, it should probably have a '748 with the 2.5. The >'730 would imply a 2.8, or perhaps a 2.0. >> Any one have table locations etc? My brother just bought one and wants me >> to help him pump it up a bit. >We need more information - a P4 ECM can have many different table >arrangements. What is the 8th byte of the EPROM? From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 20:50:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA31884 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:50:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from npcc.net (npcc.net [206.160.236.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA31880 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:50:36 -0500 Received: from MG (dial132.npcc.net [206.160.236.212]) by npcc.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA27964 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:50:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Mark Grady" To: Subject: Newbie BCC question Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:49:24 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2212 (4.71.2419.0) In-Reply-To: <199903020043.KAA28107@host.kenelec.com.au> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hope this question doesn't reveal my ignorance too much.... I have a '96 Chevy Lumina APV at work. It doesn't have the RF key fob remote entry system. The owner's manual isn't with this van, never was. The doors lock every single stinkin' time you shift out of park. You have to manually unlock them to get out. This is rather annoying. I have a '96 Pontiac version that does have remote entry, you can change the mode of the Fort Knox lock option by holding the lock switch for 10 seconds, then pressing the unlock button on the key fob. How and what you press locks/unlocks the driver's door or none at all, etc. Does anyone know how to perform this same re-programming trick if you don't have the remote? Some other secret code? Turn signal on left, rear defroster on, right power mirror moving left, seat reclining... something like that? Mark mailto:mgrady@bnin.net From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 22:32:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA00897 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:32:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com ([207.142.110.135]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA00892 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:32:16 -0500 Received: from alfred ([208.25.96.149]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:32:09 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990301222325.006c169c@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 22:23:25 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: ALDL, again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way back when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the paper; I can only guess @ what's intended. Some are obvious, many are cryptic. Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I did it in QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 22:56:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA01348 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:56:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01343 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 22:56:47 -0500 Received: from computer (ts035d36.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.198.240]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA18002 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:56:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: ALDL project Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 19:57:17 -0800 Message-ID: <000801be6460$c3647010$f0c6adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990301091719.00736e74@smtp.cybersol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If you list the part number and Chip broadcast code perhaps we can find something. Ward -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Barry Tisdale Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 6:17 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: ALDL project Anyone still currently working on the ALDL / PC project, or interested in it? Got the interface put together, works great, reading the ALDL data w/ QuickBasic program - just have to work out which numbers mean what. I'm reading a '91 GM ECU (Syclone). Anyone know what data is what? I was thinking of pots or 555s on the various sensors, but maybe someone already has the answers. Thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 23:41:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02037 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:41:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02033 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:41:32 -0500 Received: from computer (ts035d36.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.198.240]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA02567 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:41:27 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: ALDL, again Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 20:42:01 -0800 Message-ID: <000901be6467$03b33d80$f0c6adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990301222325.006c169c@smtp.cybersol.com> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Most likely you are unaware that GM has around a hundred different diag data standards, There are four different data xmission standards, including OBD II. perhaps is you stated your needs ..... ECM P/N, and or broadcast code ... Ward -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Barry Tisdale Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:23 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: ALDL, again Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way back when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the paper; I can only guess @ what's intended. Some are obvious, many are cryptic. Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I did it in QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 23:50:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02206 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:50:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02201 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:50:23 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4N9ECEV; Mon, 01 Mar 1999 23:49:54 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:15:41 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI for Propane Message-ID: <19990301.004934.13318.2.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01BE6254.94826120@d176-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> <19990226.201942.4558.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> <36D8BD5A.3FF7@ibm.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,10-24,28-32 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >You don't need a pump if you take propane off the bottom of the tank - >called liquid withdrawal. This is standard for automotive propane >systems. It IS liquid when it hits the "evaporator" - you know, that >water heated thingamagig used on "carbed" propane units. The pressure >varies with tank(vapour) temperature - not with fuel level, so it would The reason for increasing the pressure is that it is warmer under the hood than at the tank. The pressure in the tank would be insufficient to keep the propane in a liquid state in the plumbing under the hood. Even a little bubbling would cause less fuel to be injected than is intended by the ECU. >not be hard to calibrate an EFI to use liquid propane. The problem I see >is getting an injector to do the deed. Mabee try the electronic >controlled injectors from something like a Ford Powerstroke or >electronically managed Cummins or Mack. Not sure how they work, or if >they require lubrication. Size the injector to flow 15% more fuel than >you would use for gasoline to start because energy density of propane is >about that much lower (If I remember correctly - my propane days go back >a little while) >The big problem, at least here in Ontario, would be getting the bugger >certified so you would be allowed to re-fuel it. Lots of little things >you would not think of, I'm sure. Very good point! Even here in Michigan, it would be a good idea to get the documentation on the standards. It makes good sense to build the system to safety standards that were developed from exerience. Some experience is very costly... Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 1 23:50:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA02210 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:50:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from m28.boston.juno.com (m28.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.186]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA02205 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:50:24 -0500 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m28.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D4N9ECLA; Mon, 01 Mar 1999 23:49:54 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:29:32 -0500 Subject: Re: EFI for Propane Message-ID: <19990301.004934.13318.4.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,6-8,10,12-19,24-25,33-34,38-40 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>> I was thinking of feeding the liquid into the injecter at perhaps 330 >>> PSI, and using something similar to a diesel injecter on the other end >>> that opens at 300 PSI. That way the injecter would see a 30 PSI >> >>it may be more then 300psi require to keep the propane liquid, and a pump >>would be needed to get the liquid to the warm end of the fuel system >> >>> difference in pressures, and be dealing with a warm liquid. The standard >>> injecter would be used as a valve, and the propane would vaporize once it >>> leaves the injecter (regulater or whatever you want to call it). > >Trouble is, it will begin to vaporize (flash) on its way through the >injector. > >Greg The idea of the above scheme is to keep it in a liquid state on BOTH sides of the injecter. The injecter would be used as a valve. The liquid propane would be fed into the injecter at 330 (or whatever) PSI, and exit at 300 (or whatever), which would result in a 30 PSI pressure drop. The LIQUID propane would then be piped to something that is similar to a diesel injecter. It would esentially be a pressure relief valve (like that thingie on a pressure cooker) that would let enough liquid propane out to keep the pressure at 300 PSI. When the injecter is shut off, the propane remains in the line at 300 PSI. When the engine is started again, propane is fed to the EFI injecter at 330 PSI, and the injecter meters it. It is then vended to the inside of the manifold by the relief valve. The relief valve would have to stand up to the vaporizing propane, but the injecter would only see warm liquid at a 30 PSI pressure difference. What needs to be found is an injecter that is sturdy enough to withstand 330 PSI without bursting. Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 07:24:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA06470 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:24:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from emersonele-bh.emrsn.com (emersonele-bh.emrsn.com [207.140.48.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA06466 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:24:19 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by emersonele-bh.emrsn.com (8.8.8/8.6.11) id GAA16518 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 06:24:16 -0600 (CST) Received: from svnsfp03.automaticswitch.com(10.3.0.4) by emersonele-bh.emrsn.com via smap (4.1) id xma016446; Tue, 2 Mar 99 06:23:13 -0600 Received: by svnsfp03.dmnspf01 with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BE647C.CB0CAB40@svnsfp03.dmnspf01>; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:17:55 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Guenther,Max" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: ALDL, again Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:17:54 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu How do you get copies of GM's papers? Are they on the web anywhere? Thanks, Max >---------- >From: Barry Tisdale[SMTP:btisdale@cybersol.com] >Reply To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 10:23 PM >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: ALDL, again > >Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the GM >paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way back >when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. > >Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data >into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are >just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the >paper; I can only guess @ what's intended. Some are obvious, many are >cryptic. > >Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on this; >hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. Software >to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I did it in >QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? > >Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry > From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 07:33:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA06605 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:33:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com ([207.142.110.135]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA06601 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:33:29 -0500 Received: from alfred ([207.142.175.57]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:33:27 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990301235056.00702fc8@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 23:50:56 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: RE: ALDL project In-Reply-To: <000801be6460$c3647010$f0c6adce@computer> References: <3.0.1.32.19990301091719.00736e74@smtp.cybersol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu 1991 GMC Syclone 4.3 turbo ECM# 1227749 Scan ID: 3971 Delco ID: AYBN 4175 GM part # 16164174 Actual chip being used is an aftermarket, but lookup table, open loop changes only. Data xmitted by stock chip & aftermarket chip corresponds. Thanks - Barry At 07:57 PM 3/1/99 -0800, you wrote: >If you list the part number and Chip broadcast code perhaps we can find >something. >Ward > From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 08:48:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA07678 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:48:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07668 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:48:42 -0500 From: DAVE_HEMPSTEAD@HP-Andover-om3.om.hp.com Received: from andom1.an.hp.com (andom1.an.hp.com [15.4.128.104]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id FAA24046 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:48:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by andom1.an.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.3 TIS 5.0 Openmail) id IAA04010 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:48:40 -0500 (EST) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:48:29 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: My ALDL is running MIME-Version: 1.0 TO: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="cc:Mail" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="cc:Mail" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To everyone with ALDL questions. I've got a 95 GM ECM running a 96 LT-1. I received lots of help from others on this list (and other lists), and now have an ALDL scanner running. In fact I used it last night to look at the desired idle speed. Remember, nearly ECM uses a different command set, but if you are interested, you will find lots of info on my web page. Check out: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/1624 I've got a schematic for the ALDL to PC comm port. I've got a description for MY ALDL commands. I've got an executable for running on your Windows 95 (or 98 I think) laptop. It lets you see all the raw data plus decoded data updated on the screen. I've got disassembled code from inside my ECM. Have fun. Good luck. Dave Hempstead dave_hempstead@hp.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 09:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA07924 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:02:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns01.sbphrd.com (firewall-user@ns01.sbphrd.com [208.198.64.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA07920 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:02:34 -0500 From: John_Warr-1@sbphrd.com Received: by ns01.sbphrd.com; id IAA03350; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 08:49:06 -0500 Received: from phinet.sbphrd.com(139.136.64.5) by ns01.sbphrd.com via smap (4.1) id xma003255; Tue, 2 Mar 99 08:48:44 -0500 Received: from uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com (uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com [139.136.216.185]) by phinet.sbphrd.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14415 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:01:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 80256728.004D0188 ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:01:06 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SB_PHARM_RD To: DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <80256728.004D0015.00@uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 14:00:40 +0000 Subject: Propane Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ray wrote: >The relief valve would have to stand up to the vaporizing propane, but >the injecter would only see warm liquid at a 30 PSI pressure difference. >What needs to be found is an injecter that is sturdy enough to withstand >330 PSI without bursting. 330 psi.... that is about 22 bar in christian units. Surely, that is a fairly trivial pressure in the diesel world, where 30 bar is " normal ", and equipment works up to about 3 MPa. IMHO Y'rs &c John Warr '75 XJ-S... can pass anything on the road... except a petrol station. From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 09:51:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA08801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:51:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from oscva.orbital.com (orbital.com [199.36.24.99]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA08797 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:51:52 -0500 Received: from smtphq.orbital.com (smtphq.orbital.com [199.36.16.253]) by oscva.orbital.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA06059 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:51:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by smtphq.orbital.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 85256728.00512FCA ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:46:46 -0500 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ORBVA From: Teller.John@orbital.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <85256728.00512A66.00@smtphq.orbital.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:46:53 -0500 Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes, the Somerset is in fact a 2-door N body (aka Grand Am or Calais). It was only made for a few years -- 85 to 87 I think. When Buick quit making the X body Skylark, it started making a 4-door version of the Somerset which it rebadged as Skylark. My 85 Somerset has the 1226864 ECM with the 2.5L 4-cyl - currently undergoing a serious rebuild! Ludis Langens on 03/01/99 03:49:38 PM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: Diy_efi cc: (bcc: John Teller/ORBVA) Subject: Re: 730 in a buick... David A. Cooley wrote: > Looking to find any info on a 730 ECM in a 1987 Buick Somerset Regal, 2.5L > 4cyl... That's a strange combination. The Somerset Regal is just a Grand Am (N body), right? If so, it should probably have a '748 with the 2.5. The '730 would imply a 2.8, or perhaps a 2.0. > Any one have table locations etc? My brother just bought one and wants me > to help him pump it up a bit. We need more information - a P4 ECM can have many different table arrangements. What is the 8th byte of the EPROM? -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 09:58:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA09039 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:58:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com [157.254.234.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA09035 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:58:04 -0500 Received: from smtprelay.tce.com (smtprelay.indy.tce.com [157.254.96.114]) by dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA08271 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:57:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from tceexch2.INDY.TCE.COM ([157.254.93.10]) by smtprelay.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24579 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:57:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by TCEEXCH2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:56:54 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B22601DE83F6@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Propane Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 09:56:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey John, Catch me offline. I'd love to hear about that bike! I've got a few XSs! rick > -----Original Message----- > From: John_Warr-1@sbphrd.com [SMTP:John_Warr-1@sbphrd.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 9:01 AM > To: DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Propane > > Ray wrote: > > >The relief valve would have to stand up to the vaporizing propane, but > >the injecter would only see warm liquid at a 30 PSI pressure difference. > >What needs to be found is an injecter that is sturdy enough to withstand > >330 PSI without bursting. > > 330 psi.... that is about 22 bar in christian units. Surely, that is a > fairly trivial pressure in the diesel world, where 30 bar is " normal ", > and equipment works up to about 3 MPa. > > IMHO > > > Y'rs &c > > > > John Warr > > '75 XJ-S... can pass anything on the road... except a petrol station. > From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 10:17:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA09502 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:17:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA09498 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:17:24 -0500 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA10862; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:17:28 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 10:17:28 -0500 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EFI for Propane In-Reply-To: <19990301.004934.13318.2.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1999 23:15:41 -0500 > From: Raymond C Drouillard > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: EFI for Propane > > > Very good point! Even here in Michigan, it would be a good idea to get > the documentation on the standards. It makes good sense to build the > system to safety standards that were developed from exerience. Some > experience is very costly... > > Ray I'm in the middle of a move so it might be a while but I still have the Ontario lpg inpectors training manual. If I find it soon, I'll scan it and upload it ( I also did the installers course so manuals are around for that as well) > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 15:30:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15226 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:30:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA15222 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:30:04 -0500 Message-ID: <19990302202855.16588.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send1e; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 12:28:55 PST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:28:55 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: streetdyno software To: diy efi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu First, has anyone verified that this is at all accurate? Second, where would the best place for the recorder to be? Under the hood? Andy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 15:54:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA15727 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:54:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com (stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com [192.161.36.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA15723 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:54:55 -0500 Received: from stl-hub-01.boeing.com ([192.48.21.13]) by stl-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.0/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA14428 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:54:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from bcstec.ca.boeing.com by stl-hub-01.boeing.com with ESMTP for DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:54:58 -0800 Received: (from ericl@localhost) by bcstec.ca.boeing.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA09604 for DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:54:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 12:54:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Eric J. Lilleness" Message-Id: <199903022054.MAA09604@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Holley 4D1 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm considering a Holley 4Di for a moderately built Ford 460, about 475 HP. My main goal is passing emissions, but I would also like some of the other features of EFI, such as not hitting 2500 RPM when I cold-start the damn thing at 0530 to go to work....... As an FYI, I had a shop to the actual motor R&R, but picked all the components myself, as well as porting the heads, so feel free to send questions on big Fords my way. Questions: (1) How will emissions on a Holley 4Di equipped engine compare to a factory EFI? (2) Is there a way to insure that (as an example) the front right injector will always be the injector that fires during the #1 cylinder's intake stroke? This would seem to require that the ECU "knows" what cylinder each ignition pulse is intended for. (3) If the answer to the above is "no", will emissions be about the same as, or worse than batch-fired port injection? (4) Is the timing of the injector firing progammable in a manner similar to ignition advance varying as a function of RPM? (5) Iv'e heard a few love/hate stories on Holley EFI; but how are their current products, especially the 4Di? Thanks, Eric From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 16:13:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16134 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:13:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16130 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:13:37 -0500 Received: from hiwaay.net (tnt8-216-180-14-203.dialup.HiWAAY.net [216.180.14.203]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id PAA27277 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:13:36 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36DC553A.6F212432@hiwaay.net> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 15:16:44 -0600 From: Daniel Ciobota X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: streetdyno software References: <19990302202855.16588.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Andy et al., I'm not sure if I posted on the list that I already verified the street dyno to be within 10hp of my last professional chassis dyno runs, and that was before a few additional minor mods. So, yes, I consider it to be pretty accurate for tuning. I ran the voltage divider wire through the stock firewall plug and drilled for an rca connector in a hidden spot on my center console. I wouldn't recommend running any kind of recording equipment under the hood; the heat would destroy it pretty quickly. I was planning to do more street dyno runs, but, alas, I sold the mustang and purchased a vette. I'm in the process of learning more about aldl, so you folks out there talking about it have a very attentive audience... I saw the laptop interface, and as soon as I have the time I'll do some data dumps. Btw, my vette is an 89 (L98 tpi motor), anyone have experience with those? Daniel From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 16:39:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16789 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:39:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send102.yahoomail.com (send102.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.90]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA16785 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:39:39 -0500 Message-ID: <19990302214020.7949.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send102.yahoomail.com; Tue, 02 Mar 1999 13:40:20 PST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:40:20 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Re: Holley 4D1 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I had a 900cfm 4Di. I just bought another one sunday. They are great for power and tuneability. I don't know about emmisions, but they should be just fine if tuned properly. The injectors fire sequentially. Yes, all 4. One injector fires, then the next, and so on. Andy ---"Eric J. Lilleness" wrote: > > I'm considering a Holley 4Di for a moderately built Ford 460, about 475 HP. > > My main goal is passing emissions, but I would also like some of the other > features of EFI, such as not hitting 2500 RPM when I cold-start the damn thing > at 0530 to go to work....... > > As an FYI, I had a shop to the actual motor R&R, but picked all the components > myself, as well as porting the heads, so feel free to send questions on big > Fords my way. > > Questions: > > (1) How will emissions on a Holley 4Di equipped engine compare to a factory EFI? > > (2) Is there a way to insure that (as an example) the front right injector > will always be the injector that fires during the #1 cylinder's intake stroke? > This would seem to require that the ECU "knows" what cylinder each ignition > pulse is intended for. > > (3) If the answer to the above is "no", will emissions be about the same as, > or worse than batch-fired port injection? > > (4) Is the timing of the injector firing progammable in a manner similar to > ignition advance varying as a function of RPM? > > (5) Iv'e heard a few love/hate stories on Holley EFI; but how are their > current products, especially the 4Di? > > Thanks, Eric > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 16:44:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA16895 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:44:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA16890 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:44:13 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA18400 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:43:59 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903022143.PAA18400@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny8-07.ix.netcom.com(198.211.17.199) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma018302; Tue Mar 2 15:43:40 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:39:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ALDL, again Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990301222325.006c169c@smtp.cybersol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way back when, as they all contain the same typos an> > Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no > > Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a> > Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry > I am looking at obd-2 data, some of the J2190 packet data could be similiar. I have made vehicle units to hook into scan tool to decode. Have been looking at a 96 C-3500 which also sends out 8192. I am still sorting thru the 1792 possible obd-2 J1979 open std messages. I will work on ALDL and KWP2000 next and glad to help. alex From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 17:12:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA17606 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:12:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA17602 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:12:58 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id PAA24187 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:12:50 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903022212.PAA24187@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: streetdyno software To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 15:12:49 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <19990302202855.16588.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> from "andy quaas" at Mar 02, 1999 12:28:55 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu andy quaas wrote: > > First, has anyone verified that this is at all accurate? Second, > where would the best place for the recorder to be? Under the hood? > > Andy OK, I haven't tried StreeDyno yet, but I have been using HomeDyno and I can verify that it's right on. I've got some charts to show the results on http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/Amigo/Turbo/dynoruns.htm Specifically, I've charted the HomeDyno with the chassis dyno (done by ProDyno in Temp, AZ) results and they're just about right on. http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/Amigo/Turbo/Images/dyno_preturbo_home_pro_composite.jpg One caveat is that HomeDyno can only plot out to about 5000 rpm with my recordings. I'm not sure why, but I'm guessing that there's enough noise that it confuses it at that rpm. The voltage divider method of StreetDyno might work better in that respect. I only make runs to 5500 so I'm not too worried about it. It could also be the inductive sensor I wired up as it doesn't seem to be a common problem. The point? This is all just basic physics. You have to know your weight and gearing and guess pretty good at things like frontal area and drag coeffiecient for this to be accurate. If you've got a chassis dyno plot to compare against, it's pretty easy to figure the unknowns in. I can only imagine that StreetDyno is capable of the same accuracy as HomeDyno. --Dan From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 18:00:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18519 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:00:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18515 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:00:25 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA09644 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:00:10 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903022300.RAA09644@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny4-22.ix.netcom.com(198.211.16.214) by dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009446; Tue Mar 2 16:59:14 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:55:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Inquiry on EFI testing System Priority: normal In-reply-to: <6616.990227@usa.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The Echlin lab in Conn. is in transistion and possible for sale. They have several engine dynos, CARB approved emission lab, mileage acumulation and test facilities for duarability of fuel injectors, o2 sensors and brakes. alex > Hello Everyone, > I am an engineer in China Automobile Technology Research Center. > Granted by the Director of the center, we are going to build up a test > center to control the quality of automobile control system including > engine EFI subsystem. But I don't know where I should begin with. Is > there any similar center in the states? > What I want to know is: > 1) Needed equipments and suppliers > 2) Related standards > 3) Related URLs. > Thank you very much for your help! > I would be very grateful if you send emails directly to me. > > Best regards, > Qiang Chen > > > ================================== > Qiang Chen > 9-2-16,Nanjiang Xili, Jialing Rd., > Nankai District, Tianjin 300113, > P.R.China > Phone: 86(22)2769-3021 > Email: q_chen@usa.net > > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 18:10:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA18714 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:10:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18710 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:10:47 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA12532 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 17:10:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903022310.RAA12532@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny4-22.ix.netcom.com(198.211.16.214) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma012324; Tue Mar 2 17:09:16 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:05:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: streetdyno software Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199903022212.PAA24187@user2.inficad.com> References: <19990302202855.16588.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> from "andy quaas" at Mar 02, 1999 12:28:55 PM X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > OK, I haven't tried StreeDyno yet, but I have been using HomeDyno and > I can verify that it's right on. I've got some charts to show the > results on http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/Amigo/Turbo/dynoruns.htm > > Specifically, I've charted the HomeDyno with the chassis dyno (done > by ProDyno in Temp, AZ) results and they're just about right on. > http://www.inficad.com/~houlster/Amigo/Turbo/Images/dyno_preturbo_home_pro_composite.jpg > > One caveat is that HomeDyno can only plot out to about 5000 rpm with > my recordings. I'm not sure why, but I'm guessing that there's enough > noise that it confuses it at that rpm. The voltage divider method of > StreetDyno might work better in that respect. I only make runs to 5500 > so I'm not too worried about it. > > It could also be the inductive sensor I wired up as it doesn't seem to > be a common problem. > > The point? This is all just basic physics. You have to know your weight > and gearing and guess pretty good at things like frontal area and drag > coeffiecient for this to be accurate. If you've got a chassis dyno > plot to compare against, it's pretty easy to figure the unknowns in. > > I can only imagine that StreetDyno is capable of the same accuracy as > HomeDyno. Would it help to calculate the road load HP by coast down? These results 55 to 45 can be found in IM240 lookup table you can down load(large) at EPA web site. There is also a frontal area roadload HP correction formula in Code of Federal Register used for testing. alex From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 19:05:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA19695 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:05:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19691 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 19:05:12 -0500 Received: from default (anx-gar0118.deltanet.com [204.177.113.118]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA00110 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:05:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: ALDL project Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 16:07:02 -0800 Message-ID: <000001be6509$c37924c0$7671b1cc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990301235056.00702fc8@smtp.cybersol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Your AYBN Calibration is a P4 series ECM using the ecm you listed, the applications are: my 1991 1/2 4.3l LB5 vin Z Syclone Truck my 1992 4.3l LB5 Vin Z 'T' truck my 1992 4.3l LB5 Vin Z 'T' truck I suspect that this is a uneque series not used by other platforms. 8192 baud in a "handshake" modality. There are 5 different Comm modes Mode 1: Diagnostic data, 63 bytes long Mode 2: A memory dump (64 contagious bytes at a time) Mode 3: Selectable memory bump, may format and dump up to 8 bytes Mode 4: Provides the ability to alter specific ECM function on the fly. AFR. EGR SPK Etc. Mode 7: Command mode, (restores normal operation) All of these command require the issuance of a message request for each occurrence of the desired mode. I assume from your prior e-mail you are using mode one at this time is that correct ? and what else would you like to know ? ard > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Barry > Tisdale > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 8:51 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: RE: ALDL project > > > 1991 GMC Syclone 4.3 turbo > ECM# 1227749 > Scan ID: 3971 > Delco ID: AYBN 4175 > GM part # 16164174 > > Actual chip being used is an aftermarket, but lookup table, open > loop changes only. Data xmitted by stock chip & aftermarket chip > corresponds. > > Thanks - Barry > > At 07:57 PM 3/1/99 -0800, you wrote: > >If you list the part number and Chip broadcast code perhaps we can find > >something. > >Ward > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 20:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA21214 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:43:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gdi4.gdi.net (root@gdi4.gdi.net [209.26.2.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA21210 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:43:12 -0500 Received: from bigden (usr4-137.gdi.net [209.26.116.205]) by gdi4.gdi.net (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06565 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:47:19 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990302204245.00842290@gdi.net> X-Sender: padgett@gdi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:42:45 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Padgett 0sirius Subject: Re: ALDL, again In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990301222325.006c169c@smtp.cybersol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well just a quick look at my Fiero (1227170/APR0164) ALDL (C3) gives a stream like this: 000 A4 00 2A 4D C5 00 38 3B 14 80 90 00 20 00 60 24 010 1A 87 90 01 4A 00 97 00 68 A0 00 2A 4B C5 00 37 020 34 14 80 8F 00 20 00 60 25 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 030 00 70 A0 00 2A 46 C5 00 36 33 14 80 8E 00 20 00 040 60 24 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 00 6E (then repeats for the next frame). 00 2a (42) is the reported PROM ID. Diacom software interprets as follows: Engine Speed................... 1275 RPM Vehicle Speed.................. 0 MPH Coolant Temperature............ 224 F Manifold Air Temperature....... 106 F Throttle Sensor Voltage........ 0.40 VDC MAP / Vacuum Sensor Voltage.... 1.08 VDC Oxygen Sensor Voltage.......... 628 mV Oxygen Sensor Transitions...... 1 # Battery Voltage................ 13.6 VDC Idle Air Position.............. 70 # Injector Pulse Width........... 1.7 mS Spark Advance.................. 26.1 DEG EGR Duty Cycle................. 0 % Integrator..................... 128 # Block Learn Multiplier......... 144 # Closed Loop Status............. Off Fuel Mixture Status............ Rich Battery Status................. Norm Torque Converter Clutch........ Off Park/Neutral Switch............ Off Power Steering Switch.......... Off EGR Diagnostic Switch.......... Off Learn Control.................. Off Using available data, it seems likely that the "A0" at offset 019h (sorry, I find it easier to think in hex) is coolant temp (1.35*160-8), "33" at offset 039h is the RPM (1275/4=51/33h), & 46h at offset 035h is IAC (70). Suspect the rest can be decoded the same way once I get a chance to compare several readings. Or is all of this common knowlege /way off ? Am trying to come back up to speed. A. Padgett Peterson, P.E. Cybernetic Psychophysicist Anti-Virus, Cryptographics, & Antique Radio Researcher http://www.freivald.org/~padgett/index.html mailto:padgett@gdi.net PGP 5.5 Key on request From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 21:20:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA21730 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:20:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA21726 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:20:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA26584 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:20:35 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:20:35 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ALDL, again In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990302204245.00842290@gdi.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Padgett 0sirius wrote: > Well just a quick look at my Fiero (1227170/APR0164) ALDL (C3) gives a > stream like this: > 000 A4 00 2A 4D C5 00 38 3B 14 80 90 00 20 00 60 24 > 010 1A 87 90 01 4A 00 97 00 68 A0 00 2A 4B C5 00 37 > 020 34 14 80 8F 00 20 00 60 25 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 > 030 00 70 A0 00 2A 46 C5 00 36 33 14 80 8E 00 20 00 > 040 60 24 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 00 6E > (then repeats for the next frame). > > 00 2a (42) is the reported PROM ID. Diacom software interprets as follows: > > Engine Speed................... 1275 RPM > Vehicle Speed.................. 0 MPH > Coolant Temperature............ 224 F > Manifold Air Temperature....... 106 F > Throttle Sensor Voltage........ 0.40 VDC > MAP / Vacuum Sensor Voltage.... 1.08 VDC > Oxygen Sensor Voltage.......... 628 mV > Oxygen Sensor Transitions...... 1 # > Battery Voltage................ 13.6 VDC > Idle Air Position.............. 70 # > Injector Pulse Width........... 1.7 mS > Spark Advance................... 26.1 DEG > EGR Duty Cycle................. 0 % > Integrator..................... 128 # > Block Learn Multiplier......... 144 # > Closed Loop Status............. Off > Fuel Mixture Status............ Rich > Battery Status................. Norm > Torque Converter Clutch........ Off > Park/Neutral Switch............ Off > Power Steering Switch.......... Off > EGR Diagnostic Switch.......... Off > Learn Control.................. Off > > Using available data, it seems likely that the "A0" at offset 019h (sorry, > I find it easier to think in hex) is coolant temp (1.35*160-8), "33" at > offset 039h is the RPM (1275/4=51/33h), & 46h at offset 035h is IAC (70). > Suspect the rest can be decoded the same way once I get a chance to compare > several readings. > > Or is all of this common knowlege /way off ? Am trying to come back up to > speed. >From my experience, your conclusions are correct. And knowing this, with a few more frames you should be able to decode all of the info displayed by diacom. There is probably some additional info that is in the data stream but not displayed by diacom. There are quite a few bits of info I found about, and decoded, that were in the raw diacom file but not displayed by diacom. Roger From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 21:32:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA22010 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:32:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA22001 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:31:52 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.56]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id VAA06984 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:31:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008f01be651e$688abe60$38633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: ALDL project Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:34:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Boy this mode 4 sounds neat, any clues about how that's actually done.. Bruce >Mode 1: Diagnostic data, 63 bytes long >Mode 2: A memory dump (64 contagious bytes at a time) >Mode 3: Selectable memory bump, may format and dump up to 8 bytes >Mode 4: Provides the ability to alter specific ECM function on the fly. AFR. >EGR SPK Etc. >Mode 7: Command mode, (restores normal operation) > >All of these command require the issuance of a message request for each >occurrence of the desired mode. >and what else would you like to know ? >ard From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 22:51:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23467 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:51:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23463 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:51:14 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id jANa019622 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:47:24 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <2c83fef3.36dcb0cc@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:47:24 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ALDL project Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu sorry, I should read eevrything in the mailbox before I start typing.. MV: > > my 1991 1/2 4.3l LB5 vin Z Syclone Truck > my 1992 4.3l LB5 Vin Z 'T' truck > my 1992 4.3l LB5 Vin Z 'T' truck > From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 22:53:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA23522 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:53:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA23518 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:53:34 -0500 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id LTEIa04795 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:44:08 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 22:44:08 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ALDL, again Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Allow me; GMC Syclone ECM, 1227749, 8192 baud, BC code is AYBM-4052 I have the same . HTH Mike V > Most likely you are unaware that GM has around a hundred different diag data > standards, There are four different data xmission standards, including OBD > II. perhaps is you stated your needs ..... ECM P/N, and or broadcast code > ... > Ward > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Barry > Tisdale > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:23 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: ALDL, again > > > Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the > GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way > back when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. > > Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data > into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are > just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the > paper; I can only guess @ what's intended. Some are obvious, many are > cryptic. > > Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on > this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. > Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I > did it in QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? > > Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry > From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 23:30:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24277 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:30:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24273 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:30:09 -0500 Received: from gderian (dialcust-235.ts5.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.235]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA02711 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:30:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <047d01be652e$68ce3cc0$eb01d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: EFI for Propane Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:37:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I was just at the SAE Exposition in Detroit (where else?) There was an LPG injection system on display. The system was just like a non-return EFI system, right down to the submerged fuel pump in the tank. The injectors were mounted in the port and were fed from a fuel rail. The hoses were high pressure, though. The injectors were white and very large in diameter (the coil part). The engine was a Ford 5.4 Triton V8. Next to the injectors was another gismo that looked just like a really long injector but there was no fuel line. After scratching my head for a while and noticing a potted circuit board in the top, I realized that this thing covered a spark plug. It appears to be an integral coil that clips right to the plug. There is a 2 conductor connector for each one. On another note, there was also a company, Adrenaline Research, selling a combination plasma ignition and ion sensor. http://www.adrenalineresearch.com/smartfire.htm Gary Derian From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 23:30:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24293 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:30:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mx01.together.net (mx01.together.net [204.97.120.61]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24289 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:30:28 -0500 Received: from ezra (dial-29-tnt-03.btvt.together.net [209.91.3.29]) by mx01.together.net (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA29187; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:30:06 -0500 Message-ID: <003e01be652e$e5028080$8e2cfea9@ezra> From: "Ezra Hall" To: "Bob Hale x594" Cc: "Steve Gorkowski" , Subject: Re: UEGO bias (Heater requirements) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:32:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bob, Thanks for the info. I am interested in the schematics you have, any chance you could scan them? Or fax them? I am particularly interested in any information on protection of the pumping cell until proper temp has been obtained, or any other conditions that might be using to determine when it is safe to enable the feedback loop. The patents I have looked at do not provide enough details, and I don't want to "blacken" my sensor... I made some measurements tonight on my UEGO sensor to determine the Thermal Coef of resistivity for the heating element. I did this by measuring its resistance at room temp, then at ~200DegC (heated the unit for 30minutes in the oven). I fashioned a 10mA current source (calibrated to +-2%), and used this to apply current to the heating element to more accurately measure resistance. To measure temp, I placed a thermocouple in one of the holes on the sensor tip, and wrapped the assembly tightly in Al foil. Here are the measurements at various temps as it heated up. The last measurement was after approx. 30 minutes in the oven. Temp (C) R (ohms) Coef (Ohm/C) 25 3.02 NA 165 4.39 0.0098 209 4.89 0.0102 220 4.95 0.0099 221 5.06 0.0104 I will use 0.01 Ohm/Deg C for simplicity, any idea what metal is used? I then sampled heater current vs. time (2Hz sample rate) while applying 5 volts then 10 volts to the heater. Here are a few data points for reference: Time Amps Volts Ohms Deg C 0.00 1.23 4.90 3.98 121.37 10.00 1.06 4.90 4.62 185.26 20.00 1.01 4.90 4.85 208.15 30.00 0.97 4.90 5.05 228.15 40.00 0.94 4.90 5.21 244.28 50.00 0.94 4.90 5.21 244.28 60.00 0.93 4.90 5.27 249.88 70.00 1.64 9.70 5.91 314.46 80.00 1.40 9.70 6.93 415.86 90.00 1.33 9.70 7.29 452.32 100.00 1.29 9.70 7.52 474.94 110.00 1.27 9.70 7.64 486.78 Sitting in free air, this thing obviously is not going to reach 650 Deg C with 9.7 volts to the heater in any reasonable amount of time. That would explain all the patents on controlling the temp of these sensors by using resistance as the feedback parameter of a simple control system... I will CC the diy-efi list in case anyone else is interested in this info. Steve Gorkowski sent me some pictures of current vs. time for his sensor, so I know he will be interested. Let me know if you can send me any additional info from the NTK documents. Thanks, Ezra -----Original Message----- From: Bob Hale x594 To: ehall@together.net Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 4:20 PM Subject: UEGO bias >I saw your posting in the diy_efi archives regarding the heater voltage >for the wide range Honda sensor. I was looking for data on such sensors >for my own purposes, and thought that I would forward what I have learned >to you. > >I contacted NGK/NTK regarding wide range sensors and they eventually sent >me some data. They didn't want to acknowledge the Honda part number, but >they did send me data on a sensor which appears to be identical to the >Honda sensor, based on descriptions that I have read in the diy_efi >archives. > >The NTK UEGO part number is TL-7111-W1, and NTK wants $600 plus an >agreement to not sell it, to use it only on an engine, etc. The >companion interface box is another $400, and the cable is $60. > >The NTK data says that the heater supply voltage is 10.5 +- 0.5 volts, >that the heater resistance is 2.9 to 3.4 ohms at room temperature, >that the pumping current is 3.86 to 5.34 ma with 16% oxygen atmosphere. >It also cautions that the user shouldn't have the sensor present in >an exhaust system if the heater isn't powered up, and shouldn't >install the heater in a low spot where liquid water could condense. >Also, prohibitions on fuel that contains lead, phosphorous, sulfur, >and silicon are in effect. There is a conceptual schematic diagram >of how to implement instrumentation around it (no component values). > >The sensor is a two-stage unit: the first stage is supplied with >a current and that pumps oxygen into a chamber where the second >stage reacts that oxygen with exhaust gas with a 450 mv bias present. >The exhaust oxygen content is inferred by measuring the current in the >second stage. > >I hope that this is useful to you. Please feel free to make use >of it as you see fit. > >Best regards, > >Bob Hale bob_hale@credence.com From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 23:31:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24326 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:31:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24320 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:31:23 -0500 From: Carsonwv@aol.com Received: from Carsonwv@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id UPIBa26130 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:11:11 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <2f4209e.36dcb65f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:11:11 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Newbie ALDL question Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yeah, I am still interested in the project, I must have mistated myself with the diodes. I did use 4 2n4400 transistors. I have gotten some stuff out, but it only seems to work if I plug the wire to the serial in while the ignition is on. I'd be interested in trying your Qbasic program if you get a chance. I am tentatively going to try and write something in Visual Basic but am having problems with my new motherboard. I believe my board is wired ok I made 2 and they both sdo the same thing... (for all I know I made both incorrectly) Thanks Bill From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 2 23:35:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA24447 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:35:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA24442 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:35:48 -0500 Received: from fmsmsx17.intel.com (fmsmsx17.fm.intel.com [132.233.58.209]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.6 1998/11/24 22:10:56 iwep Exp iwep $) with ESMTP id EAA27708 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:35:47 GMT Received: by FMSMSX17 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:35:47 -0800 Message-ID: <0948C812BA5FD211AC3F00A0C96920CA40509C@fmsmsx46.fm.intel.com> From: "Eidson, Mark" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Holley 4D1 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 20:35:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a 700CFM 4Di on a 70 Mustang and it passes emmisions with no problems. Has anyone figured out all the fields in the download file? BTW, the eev21 software won't run, on my Thinkpad 600. It gives a divide error even when run from DOS. Any ideas? me -----Original Message----- From: andy quaas [mailto:realsquash@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 2:40 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Holley 4D1 I had a 900cfm 4Di. I just bought another one sunday. They are great for power and tuneability. I don't know about emmisions, but they should be just fine if tuned properly. The injectors fire sequentially. Yes, all 4. One injector fires, then the next, and so on. Andy ---"Eric J. Lilleness" wrote: > > I'm considering a Holley 4Di for a moderately built Ford 460, about 475 HP. > > My main goal is passing emissions, but I would also like some of the other > features of EFI, such as not hitting 2500 RPM when I cold-start the damn thing > at 0530 to go to work....... > > As an FYI, I had a shop to the actual motor R&R, but picked all the components > myself, as well as porting the heads, so feel free to send questions on big > Fords my way. > > Questions: > > (1) How will emissions on a Holley 4Di equipped engine compare to a factory EFI? > > (2) Is there a way to insure that (as an example) the front right injector > will always be the injector that fires during the #1 cylinder's intake stroke? > This would seem to require that the ECU "knows" what cylinder each ignition > pulse is intended for. > > (3) If the answer to the above is "no", will emissions be about the same as, > or worse than batch-fired port injection? > > (4) Is the timing of the injector firing progammable in a manner similar to > ignition advance varying as a function of RPM? > > (5) Iv'e heard a few love/hate stories on Holley EFI; but how are their > current products, especially the 4Di? > > Thanks, Eric > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 00:05:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25003 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:05:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24999 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:05:00 -0500 From: Turvovo@aol.com Received: from Turvovo@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id CIGHa04329 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:04:24 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <25bb4014.36dcc2d8@aol.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:04:24 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: RC fuel injectors for sale Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 218 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For sale: Lucas 370cc/min fuel injectors, Bosch small o-ring style, low impedence Balanced and blueprinted by RC engineering Used for dyno tuning and found to be insufficient for needs, new condition Good for ~225hp at 80% duty cycle Paid $80 each, sell all 4 for $200 If interested please e-mail John Magnuson at turvovo@aol.com Thanks. From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 00:05:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25017 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:05:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25013 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:05:33 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id XAA27929; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:05:38 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma027927; Tue, 2 Mar 99 23:04:59 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id XAA06503; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 23:04:52 -0600 Message-ID: <36DC6D4D.92E18ADF@arm.com> Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 22:59:25 +0000 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ALDL, again References: <3.0.5.32.19990302204245.00842290@gdi.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If you go the the diy_efi WWW page, click on oem systems, then click gm, then click programming 101 you'll see in there a list of "units", which is how to get from the binary value you see in an PROM (or aldl stream, I suppose) to a real world unit like temp, rpm, mph, map, etc. That may help you decode the stream. --steve Padgett 0sirius wrote: > > Well just a quick look at my Fiero (1227170/APR0164) ALDL (C3) gives a > stream like this: > 000 A4 00 2A 4D C5 00 38 3B 14 80 90 00 20 00 60 24 > 010 1A 87 90 01 4A 00 97 00 68 A0 00 2A 4B C5 00 37 > 020 34 14 80 8F 00 20 00 60 25 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 > 030 00 70 A0 00 2A 46 C5 00 36 33 14 80 8E 00 20 00 > 040 60 24 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 00 6E > (then repeats for the next frame). > > 00 2a (42) is the reported PROM ID. Diacom software interprets as follows: > > Engine Speed................... 1275 RPM > Vehicle Speed.................. 0 MPH > Coolant Temperature............ 224 F > Manifold Air Temperature....... 106 F > Throttle Sensor Voltage........ 0.40 VDC > MAP / Vacuum Sensor Voltage.... 1.08 VDC > Oxygen Sensor Voltage.......... 628 mV > Oxygen Sensor Transitions...... 1 # > Battery Voltage................ 13.6 VDC > Idle Air Position.............. 70 # > Injector Pulse Width........... 1.7 mS > Spark Advance.................. 26.1 DEG > EGR Duty Cycle................. 0 % > Integrator..................... 128 # > Block Learn Multiplier......... 144 # > Closed Loop Status............. Off > Fuel Mixture Status............ Rich > Battery Status................. Norm > Torque Converter Clutch........ Off > Park/Neutral Switch............ Off > Power Steering Switch.......... Off > EGR Diagnostic Switch.......... Off > Learn Control.................. Off > > Using available data, it seems likely that the "A0" at offset 019h (sorry, > I find it easier to think in hex) is coolant temp (1.35*160-8), "33" at > offset 039h is the RPM (1275/4=51/33h), & 46h at offset 035h is IAC (70). > Suspect the rest can be decoded the same way once I get a chance to compare > several readings. > > Or is all of this common knowlege /way off ? Am trying to come back up to > speed. > A. Padgett Peterson, P.E. Cybernetic Psychophysicist > Anti-Virus, Cryptographics, & Antique Radio Researcher > http://www.freivald.org/~padgett/index.html > mailto:padgett@gdi.net PGP 5.5 Key on request -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@arm.com www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 00:06:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25036 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:06:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25032 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:06:22 -0500 Received: from computer (ts038d39.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.199.147]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA26888 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:06:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: ALDL, again Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:06:51 -0800 Message-ID: <000001be6533$a61f9e20$93c7adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I think this ia s C3 ECM and your looking at it as async data ? The ECM your looking at has a 25 byte output starting with the 2 byte EPROM ID, this is the scan ID the catch is that the data is syncronous at 160 baud. This data string requires no stimulation it just chatters on endlessly. Calib APR/0164 HAS A SCAN ID OF 0042 Following the 2 ID bytes are some interesting flag bytes, and so on. Coolant si the 4th byte, to conversion is: COOLANT TEMPERATURE, Deg c = (n * 0.75) - 40 (n = the decimal values of the binary output) WARD. -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Roger Heflin Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 6:21 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ALDL, again On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Padgett 0sirius wrote: > Well just a quick look at my Fiero (1227170/APR0164) ALDL (C3) gives a > stream like this: > 000 A4 00 2A 4D C5 00 38 3B 14 80 90 00 20 00 60 24 > 010 1A 87 90 01 4A 00 97 00 68 A0 00 2A 4B C5 00 37 > 020 34 14 80 8F 00 20 00 60 25 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 > 030 00 70 A0 00 2A 46 C5 00 36 33 14 80 8E 00 20 00 > 040 60 24 1A 88 90 01 4A 00 97 00 6E > (then repeats for the next frame). > > 00 2a (42) is the reported PROM ID. Diacom software interprets as follows: > > Engine Speed................... 1275 RPM > Vehicle Speed.................. 0 MPH > Coolant Temperature............ 224 F > Manifold Air Temperature....... 106 F > Throttle Sensor Voltage........ 0.40 VDC > MAP / Vacuum Sensor Voltage.... 1.08 VDC > Oxygen Sensor Voltage.......... 628 mV > Oxygen Sensor Transitions...... 1 # > Battery Voltage................ 13.6 VDC > Idle Air Position.............. 70 # > Injector Pulse Width........... 1.7 mS > Spark Advance................... 26.1 DEG > EGR Duty Cycle................. 0 % > Integrator..................... 128 # > Block Learn Multiplier......... 144 # > Closed Loop Status............. Off > Fuel Mixture Status............ Rich > Battery Status................. Norm > Torque Converter Clutch........ Off > Park/Neutral Switch............ Off > Power Steering Switch.......... Off > EGR Diagnostic Switch.......... Off > Learn Control.................. Off > > Using available data, it seems likely that the "A0" at offset 019h (sorry, > I find it easier to think in hex) is coolant temp (1.35*160-8), "33" at > offset 039h is the RPM (1275/4=51/33h), & 46h at offset 035h is IAC (70). > Suspect the rest can be decoded the same way once I get a chance to compare > several readings. > > Or is all of this common knowlege /way off ? Am trying to come back up to > speed. >From my experience, your conclusions are correct. And knowing this, with a few more frames you should be able to decode all of the info displayed by diacom. There is probably some additional info that is in the data stream but not displayed by diacom. There are quite a few bits of info I found about, and decoded, that were in the raw diacom file but not displayed by diacom. Roger From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 00:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25272 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:17:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25268 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:17:43 -0500 Received: from 20.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.20) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:21:11 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: fanglers@xephic.dynip.com, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Combustion - Third Edition by Irwin Glassman Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 05:17:08 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <36dec459.9129843@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It's here. It's mine -all mine. No more Inter Library Loan. It's all mine. Go ahead - gloat - but I got the word from on high about all that is needed to be known about combustion - at least a readable primary source by someone who is referenced by everyone in all papers. All you ever wanted to know about combustion - de mything most folk lore and explaining what actually happens. Mine - all mine. Unfair advantage - I love It!!!!. Clearly needing a life over enthusiastic bibliophile. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 00:18:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA25307 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:18:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA25302 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 00:18:38 -0500 Received: from computer (ts038d39.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.199.147]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA01426 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:18:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: ALDL project Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 21:19:09 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be6535$5d9524c0$93c7adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <008f01be651e$688abe60$38633acf@nacelp> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes mode 4 did sound interesting, but the problem, is that only P4 ECM have this feature and virtualy erery one onf them require disfferent interogation/response words. And the problem is the the changed taht you woulds make don't blend in to the calibration very well. For example you can alter the spark output at any given point, but this is a global change, like tunring the distributer, how do you translate this to a spark table. Very trickey, as a result after if figured it out I never used it. I have how ever used mode 2 and 3, my 1st download from a flash mem PCM was done with mode 2, 64 bytes at a time. Mode 3 letst you havwe na abreviated diagnostc of your own design that can run up to a frame / -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce Plecan Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 6:35 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ALDL project Boy this mode 4 sounds neat, any clues about how that's actually done.. Bruce >Mode 1: Diagnostic data, 63 bytes long >Mode 2: A memory dump (64 contagious bytes at a time) >Mode 3: Selectable memory bump, may format and dump up to 8 bytes >Mode 4: Provides the ability to alter specific ECM function on the fly. AFR. >EGR SPK Etc. >Mode 7: Command mode, (restores normal operation) > >All of these command require the issuance of a message request for each >occurrence of the desired mode. >and what else would you like to know ? >ard From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 04:04:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA27634 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:04:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from queenie (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA27630 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:04:42 -0500 Received: from cruzers.com (surf51.cruzers.com [205.215.232.51]) by queenie (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26285 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 01:18:09 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36DCF922.4BF478B0@cruzers.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 00:56:07 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: ALDL, again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Padgett 0sirius > Well just a quick look at my Fiero (1227170/APR0164) ALDL (C3) gives a > stream like this: > Using available data, it seems likely that the "A0" at offset 019h (sorry, > I find it easier to think in hex) is coolant temp (1.35*160-8), "33" at > offset 039h is the RPM (1275/4=51/33h), & 46h at offset 035h is IAC (70). > Suspect the rest can be decoded the same way once I get a chance to compare > several readings. > > Or is all of this common knowlege /way off ? Am trying to come back up to > speed. The V6 Fiero ALDL frame content description was posted to diy_efi a _long_ time ago. An archive search should find it. A slightly better version is also available on the web - a listee typed in a GM document describing lots of old C3 ALDL formats. The URL is/was: http://www.isthq.com/~dan/aldl.htm After looking at Dan's info, if you still have questions about what the various flag bits in the frame do, I can provide all the gory details. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 06:13:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA28831 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:13:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ns01.sbphrd.com (firewall-user@ns01.sbphrd.com [208.198.64.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA28825 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:13:21 -0500 From: John_Warr-1@sbphrd.com Received: by ns01.sbphrd.com; id GAA09911; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:00:23 -0500 Received: from phinet.sbphrd.com(139.136.64.5) by ns01.sbphrd.com via smap (4.1) id xma009863; Wed, 3 Mar 99 06:00:00 -0500 Received: from uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com (uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com [139.136.216.185]) by phinet.sbphrd.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA21812; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:12:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.2 (693.3 8-11-1998)) id 80256729.003D970F ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:12:43 +0000 X-Lotus-FromDomain: SB_PHARM_RD To: DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com Message-ID: <80256729.003D95D0.00@uksmtp01.ha.uk.sbphrd.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:12:14 +0000 Subject: Over enthusiastic bibliophile. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You might also like to add "Atomization & Sprays" by Arthur Lefebvre to your book shelf. Other empty spaces could be filled with Kuznetsov & Sabel'niko, and Norman Chigier's "Combustion Measurements".... but if the books are expensive, wait till you start pricing up the apparatus. Y'rs &c John Warr "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world Beats a 52 Vincent and a red headed girl." From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 08:23:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA29857 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:23:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail1.cybersol.com ([207.142.110.135]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA29853 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:23:13 -0500 Received: from alfred ([207.142.175.22]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:22:29 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990303075548.0073668c@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 07:55:48 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: ALDL, again In-Reply-To: <36DCF922.4BF478B0@cruzers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks to everyone who responded to my original post. Have things pretty well sorted out now as to what the data means. Now, just have to do some pretty bar graphs for real-time dash display & some data massagers for Excel display / graphing of relevant functions. Thanks again - Barry From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 09:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA30385 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:04:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-67.s4.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA30381 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:04:03 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00096 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:04:10 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:04:10 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903031404.JAA00096@webserver> Message-ID: <36DD4032.98AD7451@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:59:14 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Holley 4D1 References: <0948C812BA5FD211AC3F00A0C96920CA40509C@fmsmsx46.fm.intel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I have a 700CFM 4Di on a 70 Mustang and it passes emmisions with no > problems. Has anyone figured out all the fields in the download file? BTW, > the eev21 software won't run, on my Thinkpad 600. It gives a divide error > even when run from DOS. Any ideas? me Let me guess, PCDOS 6 or 7, right? The solution is to load "setver.exe" and add the Holley executable to the "setver list" and force the version number of DOS as 5.0. This makes the issue go away. You'll find that on a lot of application specific DOS software with the Thinkpads... You remember how to use setver, right? -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 09:33:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA30917 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:33:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scotty.nni.com (nni.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA30912 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:33:58 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.9.98]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:31:13 -0500 Message-ID: <36DD6FC6.5DCF@nni.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:22:14 -0800 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Fuel Pressure Error Amp, PWM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu As promised, I've uploaded the controller schematics for a feedback circuit. This circuit, used in conjunction with a fuel pressure sensor and the PWM controller, should complete a fuel pressure regulating system. Find in the 'incoming': FPRERR.GIF and FPRERR.TXT This circuit is an error amp/charge pump to control the PWM circuit. I've tested it on the bench using simulated inputs and ouputs, so it should work as a whole. Those that try this out, let me know how it works. I'll be in the garage today finishing up intalling the EFI harness and hopefully the throttle body. Seems I now have too much time on my hands. (Anybody in SE PA looking for a good software guy?) BobR. -- From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 09:41:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31079 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:41:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31075 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:41:54 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id GAA66622; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:41:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 06:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: RC fuel injectors for sale In-Reply-To: <25bb4014.36dcc2d8@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have a source for coated armature wire that is low resistance and small diameter, similar to the wire used in EFI injectors? All the wire Ihave been able to find is either small diameter/high resistance or large diameter/ low resistance. From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 10:20:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA31974 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:20:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.lig (mail2.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA31970 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:20:45 -0500 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-91.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.91]) by mail2.lig (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA21845 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 10:20:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.19990303101941.0093b4f0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 10:20:42 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: RC fuel injectors for sale In-Reply-To: References: <25bb4014.36dcc2d8@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 06:41 AM 3/3/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Does anyone have a source for coated armature wire that is low resistance >and small diameter, similar to the wire used in EFI injectors? All the >wire Ihave been able to find is either small diameter/high resistance or >large diameter/ low resistance. > Not sure what guage they use, but any enamel/formvar coated copper wire should do the trick... The resistance problem is related to wire guage... the larger the guage number, the smaller diameter and higher resistance per foot. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 I am Pentium of Borg...division is futile...you will be approximated. =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 11:47:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA00578 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:47:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bdserv.bytedesigns.com (qmailr@ns1.bytedesigns.com [209.52.99.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA00574 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 11:47:21 -0500 Received: (qmail 26770 invoked from network); 3 Mar 1999 16:51:30 -0000 Received: from bdmail3.bytedesigns.com (qmailr@209.52.99.135) by ns1.bytedesigns.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 1999 16:51:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 8900 invoked from network); 3 Mar 1999 16:47:24 -0000 Received: from bdbus.bytedesigns.com (HELO bdserv) (209.52.99.171) by bdmail3.bytedesigns.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 1999 16:47:24 -0000 Message-ID: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> From: "Heinz Wittenbecher" To: Subject: Am I in the right place? Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:49:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Apologies if I'm not. It wasn't quite clear in the Charter on whether DIY means only DIYers that build from scratch or whether perhaps it includes folks like myself that converted his GMC motorhome's 455 Olds to ported fuel injection that's using the Accel ECU. I recently added an engine monitor with individual egt's etc and will be adding theAccel VIC unit in the next few days. Obviously I'm a newbie to efi and really just an amateur technician that enjoys his GMC. It's a learn by doing program and every once in a while I'm stuck and find myself looking for help. I.e. setting up the EFI in general (using Accel's Calmap software in realtime), not so much for dragstrip performance but maximun reliability with reasonal fuel economy and performance. The engine monitor has a datalogging function and I expect to be using Excel or some other program to monitor the engine over time to hopefully pre-empt breakdowns without wasting time left on engine. If I'm in the wrong place, my apologies in advance and if so I'll scoot outa here. If I am in the right place I'd like to ask whether any information is available for the proper mixture setting using EGT's. I did search the archives but was not able to draw any conclusion. In my airplane days we used to go peak and then enrichen 50-75 degrees. Would the same apply or can each cylinder be run closer to peak? With the VIC I expect to be able to adjust each injector so that no compromised setting has to be used. TIA - Heinz '76 GMC Classic MH www.bytedesigns.com/gmc From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 12:52:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02327 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:52:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02323 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:52:53 -0500 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA12638 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:52:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 88256729.0061B956 ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:47:24 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <88256729.0061AE79.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:45:26 -0800 Subject: Vehicle stats database Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> You know, the "Car Test" program has over 900 cars in it's database. It has the gear ratios, test weight, coefficient of drag, and the surface frontal area. It can be a good program to compare/contrast different vehicles and their performance. Examples: '98 Chevy Camaro SS 3510 lb. test weight (w/ driver) .34 Coefficient of Drag 22 sq.ft. Frontal Area '92 VW Corrado SLC 3000 lb. test weight (w/ driver) .32 Coefficient of Drag 19.4 sq.ft. Frontal Area '97 BMW M3 Dinan 3440 lb. test weight (w/ driver) .32 Coefficient of Drag 20.2 sq.ft. Frontal Area Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 12:52:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA02321 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:52:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02317 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:52:46 -0500 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA14489; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:52:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:52:54 -0500 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? In-Reply-To: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Heinz Wittenbecher wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 08:49:35 -0800 > From: Heinz Wittenbecher > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Am I in the right place? > > Apologies if I'm not. welcome, sound like you do belong > > If I'm in the wrong place, my apologies in advance and if so I'll scoot outa > here. If I am in the right place I'd like to ask whether any information is > available for the proper mixture setting using EGT's. I did search the > archives but was not able to draw any conclusion. In my airplane days we > used to go peak and then enrichen 50-75 degrees. cool a lean roll using egt's I'd be curious about this too, might be a way to double check optimal a/f ratio. Do you remember what a/f ratio this produced? >Would the same apply or can > each cylinder be run closer to peak? With the VIC I expect to be able to > adjust each injector so that no compromised setting has to be used. > > TIA - Heinz > '76 GMC Classic MH > www.bytedesigns.com/gmc > > > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 13:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02536 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:01:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA02532 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:01:37 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id MAA06592; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:01:44 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma006574; Wed, 3 Mar 99 12:01:43 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA01700; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:00:28 -0600 Message-ID: <36DD7845.6FE4EC63@arm.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 11:58:29 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You're in the right place... GMECM and EFI332 have specific charters, but diy_efi is open to just about any kind of engine management topic. Heinz Wittenbecher wrote: > > Apologies if I'm not. > It wasn't quite clear in the Charter on whether DIY means only DIYers that > build from scratch or whether perhaps it includes folks like myself that > converted his GMC motorhome's 455 Olds to ported fuel injection that's using > the Accel ECU. I recently added an engine monitor with individual egt's etc > and will be adding theAccel VIC unit in the next few days. Obviously I'm a > newbie to efi and really just an amateur technician that enjoys his GMC. > > It's a learn by doing program and every once in a while I'm stuck and find > myself looking for help. I.e. setting up the EFI in general (using Accel's > Calmap software in realtime), not so much for dragstrip performance but > maximun reliability with reasonal fuel economy and performance. The engine > monitor has a datalogging function and I expect to be using Excel or some > other program to monitor the engine over time to hopefully pre-empt > breakdowns without wasting time left on engine. > > If I'm in the wrong place, my apologies in advance and if so I'll scoot outa > here. If I am in the right place I'd like to ask whether any information is > available for the proper mixture setting using EGT's. I did search the > archives but was not able to draw any conclusion. In my airplane days we > used to go peak and then enrichen 50-75 degrees. Would the same apply or can > each cylinder be run closer to peak? With the VIC I expect to be able to > adjust each injector so that no compromised setting has to be used. > > TIA - Heinz > '76 GMC Classic MH > www.bytedesigns.com/gmc -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 13:03:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA02604 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:03:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-64.s1.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA02598 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:03:26 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA00296 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:03:23 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:03:23 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903031803.NAA00296@webserver> Message-ID: <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 17:58:36 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > It wasn't quite clear in the Charter on whether DIY means only DIYers that > build from scratch or whether perhaps it includes folks like myself that > converted his GMC motorhome's 455 Olds to ported fuel injection that's using > the Accel ECU. I recently added an engine monitor with individual egt's etc Do it Yourself in this list just means that you are attaching FI to something. That's been my take anyway. A lot of folks are dissecting OEM ECMs, some are adapting them to other things (Like me, adapting a Chebby TPI to a Mopar 431 stroker), and others are actually building circuits from scratch, either with the EFI332 team project here, or a seperate system of their choosing. Still others run the Accell, Haltech, Holley or Electromotive systems, and some are still installing. And some are lurkers, which is just fine too :) > and will be adding theAccel VIC unit in the next few days. Obviously I'm a > newbie to efi and really just an amateur technician that enjoys his GMC. I think it was the Jeff Hartman book that had an EFI buildup for a twin-turbo'd system for a GMC Motorhome. I loaned someone my book so I can't verify it... but I didn't see it in my Corky Bell "Maximum Boost" book, so I'm pretty sure its in the Fuel Injection book. You might want to spend a few bucks (like 20) and check out the book... there's a lot of good information, and as I said, one of the buildups is a GMC motorhome, though the coverage is light to say the least. > available for the proper mixture setting using EGT's. I did search the If the system is lean, EGT's are much higher normally. -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 14:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04280 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:07:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04276 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:07:25 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-52.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.52]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA134824 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:07:23 GMT Message-ID: <36DD870C.42E7@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:08:13 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: injector drivers References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What is the simplest way to drive a set of ford V8 injectors from a digital signal ? I want something readily available (not unobtanium plated special parts) and inexpensive, that is simple to implement, test, and repair if necessary From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 14:26:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA04667 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:26:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-64.s1.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA04662 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:26:35 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAB00243 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:26:22 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:26:22 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903031926.OAB00243@webserver> Message-ID: <36DD8BBE.44B459CA@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:21:34 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: injector drivers References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> <36DD870C.42E7@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > What is the simplest way to drive a set of ford V8 injectors from a > digital signal ? I want something readily available (not unobtanium A mosfet with a diode in parallel with the mosfet facing the wrong way to protect it from coil voltage spikes. That's if your interface/computer circuit handles the hold function via software. If its through hardware, you need something limilar to the LM1949 chip which does peak and hold very nicely. -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 14:59:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA05355 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:59:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from bdserv.bytedesigns.com (qmailr@ns1.bytedesigns.com [209.52.99.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA05351 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:59:10 -0500 Received: (qmail 28896 invoked from network); 3 Mar 1999 20:03:29 -0000 Received: from bdmail3.bytedesigns.com (qmailr@209.52.99.135) by ns1.bytedesigns.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 1999 20:03:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 10311 invoked from network); 3 Mar 1999 19:59:20 -0000 Received: from bdbus.bytedesigns.com (HELO bdserv) (209.52.99.171) by bdmail3.bytedesigns.com with SMTP; 3 Mar 1999 19:59:20 -0000 Message-ID: <011b01be65b0$a2be9100$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> From: "Heinz Wittenbecher" To: Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:01:32 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0810.800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thank you for confirming I'm at the right place (among tinkerers). >> In my airplane days we >> used to go peak and then enrichen 50-75 degrees. > >cool a lean roll using egt's I'd be curious about this too, might be a >way to double check optimal a/f ratio. Do you remember what a/f ratio >this produced? No idea on actual a/f ratios. It was used only at cruise power and altitude. Basically adjusting fuel (manually) to the amount of air available at the particular altitude. I guess my main concern is burning of valves, etc. if running too lean, hence the question as to how close to peak is feasable to run without doing damage. My plan is to do some data logging for the first few hundred or perhaps first 1000 miles on my next trip to get a baseline of egt and other temp readings for the Accell settings that have been in use for the last 10k and then to start playing with the VIC. Perhaps it'll explain itself, i.e. if I'm running several hundred degrees from peak even getting it to within a hundred should be an improvement and not likely to hurt anything. I'll pass on what I find. In the meantime I'll be a happy lurker. Heinz From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 15:00:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05386 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:00:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-64.s1.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA05381 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:00:09 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA00271 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:59:43 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:59:43 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903031959.OAA00271@webserver> Message-ID: <36DD938F.79132B59@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:54:55 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: injector drivers References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> <36DD870C.42E7@ibm.net> <36DD8BBE.44B459CA@xephic.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > A mosfet with a diode in parallel with the mosfet facing the > wrong way to protect it from coil voltage spikes. That's if > your interface/computer circuit handles the hold function I entirely said that backwards. Drive the mosfet, with a reverse-biased diode in parallel. There, that makes more sense! -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 15:12:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05758 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:12:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05754 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:12:39 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id OAA11309; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:12:46 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma011304; Wed, 3 Mar 99 14:12:20 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA12919; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:12:12 -0600 Message-ID: <36DD9721.F2AD19D1@arm.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:10:09 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: injector drivers References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> <36DD870C.42E7@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sandy designed a driver board that is useful for injectors or ignition coils for the efi332 project. There are probably some spares floating around... It incorporates a 1949 for peak/hold functions but works OK as a saturated type driver as well. --steve "Clarence L.Snyder" wrote: > > What is the simplest way to drive a set of ford V8 injectors from a > digital signal ? I want something readily available (not unobtanium > plated special parts) and inexpensive, that is simple to implement, > test, and repair if necessary -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 15:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA05794 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:13:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mhub1.tc.umn.edu (mhub1.tc.umn.edu [160.94.5.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05789 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:13:53 -0500 Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by mhub1.tc.umn.edu with ESMTP for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:13:51 -0600 Received: from [160.94.65.195] by gold.tc.umn.edu with ESMTP for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:13:51 -0600 Message-Id: <36DD97FC.10ACE0F9@tc.umn.edu> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:13:49 -0600 From: MARK C KIECKER X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; IRIX 6.5 IP32) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: help unsubscirbe References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> <36DD870C.42E7@ibm.net> <36DD8BBE.44B459CA@xephic.dynip.com> <36DD938F.79132B59@xephic.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ive been trying to unsubscibe this list. I was wondering if someone could use laymens terms and syntax for the steps in this proceedure. From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 15:45:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA06956 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:45:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hwembaz0001.honeywell.com (hwembaz0001.cas.honeywell.com [129.239.10.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06950 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:45:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199903032045.PAA06950@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hwembaz0001.Honeywell.COM with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <1DR8TDM9>; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:45:33 -0700 From: "Van Setten, Tim (AZ75)" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: injector drivers Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:39:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > What is the simplest way to drive a set of ford V8 injectors from a > digital signal ? I want something readily available (not unobtanium > plated special parts) and inexpensive, that is simple to implement, > test, and repair if necessary > First, what kind of injectors are you trying to drive? Low impedance, high impedance, throttle-body, port? Are you going to batch fire, alternate banks, etc.? Need more input. Tim. From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 15:49:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA07160 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:49:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from kalessin.southern.co.nz (kalessin.southern.co.nz [202.37.188.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07152 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:49:39 -0500 Received: (mail@localhost) by kalessin.southern.co.nz (8.8.5/8.6.6.Beta6) id JAA15395 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:49:33 +1300 (NZDT) Received: from ppp033.southern.co.nz(202.37.189.33) by kalessin.southern.co.nz via smap (V2.0) id xma015377; Thu, 4 Mar 99 09:49:02 +1300 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990304094848.00dbb770@southern.co.nz> X-Sender: mikem@southern.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:48:48 +1300 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Mike Morrin Subject: Ignition lead inductive pickups wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I need a supply of a quntity of clip-on inductive pickups, similar to those used on ignition timing lights. I need a quantity of around 50. Has anyone seen these for sale anywhere? regards, Mike Morrin From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 15:51:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA07266 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:51:40 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07262 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:51:39 -0500 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA21018; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:51:47 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:51:47 -0500 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? In-Reply-To: <011b01be65b0$a2be9100$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Heinz Wittenbecher wrote: > Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:01:32 -0800 > From: Heinz Wittenbecher > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? > > Thank you for confirming I'm at the right place (among tinkerers). > > >> In my airplane days we > >> used to go peak and then enrichen 50-75 degrees. > > > >cool a lean roll using egt's I'd be curious about this too, might be a > >way to double check optimal a/f ratio. Do you remember what a/f ratio > >this produced? > > No idea on actual a/f ratios. > It was used only at cruise power and altitude. Basically adjusting fuel > (manually) to the amount of air available at the particular altitude. I'd guess probly around 12:1 ( for peak power??) > > I guess my main concern is burning of valves, etc. if running too lean, > hence the question as to how close to peak is feasable to run without doing > damage. I've been worried about my tracker the exhaust manifold gets red hot ( I noticed it after running out of wiper fluid at night > > My plan is to do some data logging for the first few hundred or perhaps > first 1000 miles on my next trip to get a baseline of egt and other temp > readings for the Accell settings that have been in use for the last 10k and > then to start playing with the VIC. Perhaps it'll explain itself, i.e. if > I'm running several hundred degrees from peak even getting it to within a > hundred should be an improvement and not likely to hurt anything. > > I'll pass on what I find. In the meantime I'll be a happy lurker. this is a good place to learn > > Heinz > > > > > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 15:56:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA07378 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:56:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07374 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:56:33 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-132.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.132]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id MAA28494 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 12:56:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36DDB23F.220F@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:05:51 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: injector drivers References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> <36DD870C.42E7@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Clarence L.Snyder wrote: > > What is the simplest way to drive a set of ford V8 injectors from a > digital signal ? I want something readily available (not unobtanium > plated special parts) and inexpensive, that is simple to implement, > test, and repair if necessary Per Gar, take a look at Cherry Semi CS-452, CS-453. Jack From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 16:18:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07830 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:18:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send103.yahoomail.com (send103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.92]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA07826 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:18:35 -0500 Message-ID: <19990303211927.23236.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send103.yahoomail.com; Wed, 03 Mar 1999 13:19:27 PST Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 13:19:27 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Electronic advance problems... To: diy efi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu this is long.... Someone contacted me with a problem that they are having with their projection 4Di. They have it tuned up on a 454 with a 1988 remote-coil HEI distributor. It will run for 43 minutes (every time), no matter if its idling or driving down the road. They are also using the ESC module and knock sensor. They tried a 1980's big-cap electronic advance HEI and it did the exact same thing. They were running with a vacuum-advance HEI and it ran just fine until they swapped in the new one. Here's the weird part-The holley has a separate tach wire that you use if you have the vacuum advance distributor that doesn't get used when you use the elec. dist. After the thing dies, they disconnect the 4-wire connector from the dist. and isntall the tach wire onto the negative side of the coil. The thing starts right up. They shut it off immidiately and reconnect the 4-wire connector and it runs for another 43 minutes. Any ideas? I told them to nix the ESC and try it. Andy _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 17:20:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09344 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:20:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from exchmail.pns.anl.gov (exchmail.pns.anl.gov [146.139.156.118]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09339 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:20:38 -0500 Received: by exchmail.pns.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:21:16 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Kurek, Larry" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: What ECM is Better... Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:21:15 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Guys: By a stroke of pure bad luck, I have a spare ECM that I can either keep, or turn in as a core ($50). However, I have two choices...I have a 746 ECM and the 302 that I replaced. Both are good....which is better to keep for future use :) FWIW, I ended up replacing a perfectly good ECM when it ended up being a bad coil :( I had a guy help me (first mistake) by hooking a scope up to the injector harness...I had no pulses, yet I *did* have them at the ECM from the distributor reference signal. So...I figured the ECM was shot. I now have a set of NOID lights to test this in the future :) TTYL! Larry From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 17:20:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09325 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:20:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09321 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:20:23 -0500 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti01a22-0034.dialup.online.no [130.67.10.34]) by online.no (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21210 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:20:21 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199903032220.XAA21210@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: Re: Combustion - Third Edition by Irwin Glassman Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:20:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi! Please ,cant you give us some input on your way throu the book? Maybe to much to ask for...... Espen Hilde ---------- > From: Robert Harris > To: fanglers@xephic.dynip.com; diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Combustion - Third Edition by Irwin Glassman > Date: 3. mars 1999 06:17 > > It's here. It's mine -all mine. No more Inter Library Loan. It's all mine. > Go ahead - gloat - but I got the word from on high about all that is needed to > be known about combustion - at least a readable primary source by someone who > is referenced by everyone in all papers. > > All you ever wanted to know about combustion - de mything most folk lore and > explaining what actually happens. Mine - all mine. Unfair advantage - I > love It!!!!. > > Clearly needing a life over enthusiastic bibliophile. > > 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" > 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" > 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant > 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" > > Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 17:22:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA09450 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:22:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA09446 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:22:33 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-44.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.62]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA01665 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:22:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <013901be65c4$c1f66b60$3e198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Combustion - Third Edition by Irwin Glassman Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:25:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Robert Harris To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 12:31 AM Subject: Combustion - Third Edition by Irwin Glassman So ya gonna gloat all day or share a little, Bruce >It's here. It's mine -all mine. No more Inter Library Loan. It's all mine. >Go ahead - gloat - but I got the word from on high about all that is needed to >be known about combustion - at least a readable primary source by someone who >is referenced by everyone in all papers. > >All you ever wanted to know about combustion - de mything most folk lore and >explaining what actually happens. Mine - all mine. Unfair advantage - I >love It!!!!. > > Clearly needing a life over enthusiastic bibliophile. > >1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" >1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" >1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant >1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" > >Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore > From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 17:44:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA10108 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:44:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA10104 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:44:43 -0500 Received: from default (anx-gar0117.deltanet.com [204.177.113.117]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA12140 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: Vehicle stats database Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 14:46:33 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be65c7$b001ae30$7571b1cc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <88256729.0061AE79.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a good idea jason, and you are correct according to Newton. I would like to know the URL for this dbase ? EPA is a pain, and are light trucks on the same dbase ? Ward > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of > Jason_Leone@amat.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 9:45 AM > To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Vehicle stats database > > > < your weight > and gearing and guess pretty good at things like frontal area and drag > coeffiecient for this to be accurate. If you've got a chassis dyno > plot to compare against, it's pretty easy to figure the unknowns in.>> > > You know, the "Car Test" program has over 900 cars in it's > database. It has the > gear ratios, test weight, coefficient of drag, and the surface > frontal area. It > can be a good program to compare/contrast different vehicles and their > performance. > > Examples: > '98 Chevy Camaro SS > 3510 lb. test weight (w/ driver) > .34 Coefficient of Drag > 22 sq.ft. Frontal Area > > '92 VW Corrado SLC > 3000 lb. test weight (w/ driver) > .32 Coefficient of Drag > 19.4 sq.ft. Frontal Area > > '97 BMW M3 Dinan > 3440 lb. test weight (w/ driver) > .32 Coefficient of Drag > 20.2 sq.ft. Frontal Area > > Jason > '93 SLC > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 18:00:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10552 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:00:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10548 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:00:47 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-44.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.62]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id SAA06539 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:00:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <016d01be65ca$193d4ec0$3e198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: What ECM is Better... Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:03:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If it's a $20 core I'd say keep em both. Too much more, then no, depends on what your local market drives Bruce >By a stroke of pure bad luck, I have a spare ECM that I can either keep, or >turn in as a core ($50). However, I have two choices...I have a 746 ECM and >the 302 that I replaced. Both are good....which is better to keep for future >use :) > >FWIW, I ended up replacing a perfectly good ECM when it ended up being a bad >coil :( I had a guy help me (first mistake) by hooking a scope up to the >injector harness...I had no pulses, yet I *did* have them at the ECM from >the distributor reference signal. So...I figured the ECM was shot. I now >have a set of NOID lights to test this in the future :) > >TTYL! > >Larry > From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 18:08:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA10725 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:08:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA10721 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:08:06 -0500 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id RAA07094 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:07:25 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199903032307.RAA07094@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny10-42.ix.netcom.com(198.211.18.106) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma007006; Wed Mar 3 17:06:41 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:02:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Vehicle stats database Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000101be65c7$b001ae30$7571b1cc@default> References: <88256729.0061AE79.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > This is a good idea jason, and you are correct according to Newton. > I would like to know the URL for this dbase ? EPA is a pain, and are light > trucks on the same dbase ? > Ward > http://www.epa.gov/oms/im.htm about half way down page I have heard there is a bigger state one maybe texas? alex From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 18:29:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA11152 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:29:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA11148 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 18:29:53 -0500 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id PAA18399; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:29:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 88256729.008097F1 ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:24:35 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: Mark_Duewel@dca.ca.gov, diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <88256729.0080950B.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 15:22:55 -0800 Subject: Re: Vehicle stats database Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> Mark, I did a quick search on the web to find it, and you can download it from here: http://www.miata.net/bin/cartst.exe I have nothing to do w/ the above site or organization...so scan it for viruses before you install it. Car Test is an MSDOS based program, but runs in the Win95 DOS shell though. It takes a bit to figure out the correct "F" keys to use, but once you get the hang of it...it's easy. Spend an hour on it, and you'll have a blast (well, if you enjoy a few beers at the same time, he he). It's pretty funny doing drag races or track laps (w/ a pace car). Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 19:30:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA12341 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:30:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gdi4.gdi.net (root@gdi4.gdi.net [209.26.2.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA12337 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:30:23 -0500 Received: from bigden (usr2b-15.gdi.net [209.26.36.143]) by gdi4.gdi.net (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22112 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 19:34:40 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990303192954.00847440@gdi.net> X-Sender: padgett@gdi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:29:54 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Padgett 0sirius Subject: Re: ALDL, again In-Reply-To: <36DCF922.4BF478B0@cruzers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > A slightly better >version is also available on the web - a listee typed in a GM document >describing lots of old C3 ALDL formats. The URL is/was: > http://www.isthq.com/~dan/aldl.htm Thank you, I have that but it does not give a reference to the *order* of the data stream which will take several frames to discover (and my day job keeps me pretty busy designing PKI and my wife's '90 Bonneville lost a cam bearing and...). For instance the integrator counts is 128 which is a 080h. Problem is there are two bytes in the data stream with that value. Not rocket science, just needs to be done. A. Padgett Peterson, P.E. Cybernetic Psychophysicist Anti-Virus, Cryptographics, & Antique Radio Researcher http://www.freivald.org/~padgett/index.html mailto:padgett@gdi.net PGP 5.5 Key on request From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 20:43:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA13128 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:43:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA13122 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:43:10 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-207-104-100-148.sndg02.pacbell.net [207.104.100.148]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id RAA28370 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:43:07 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36DDF554.172A@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 18:52:04 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Ignition lead inductive pickups wanted References: <3.0.5.32.19990304094848.00dbb770@southern.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Home dyno page has a source, IIRC. If you can't find it e-mail me and I'll dig out the URL. Jack Mike Morrin wrote: > > Hi, > > I need a supply of a quntity of clip-on inductive pickups, similar to those > used on ignition timing lights. I need a quantity of around 50. > > Has anyone seen these for sale anywhere? From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 23:14:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA14959 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:14:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA14955 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:14:17 -0500 Received: from orion.idirect.com (orion.idirect.com [207.136.80.167]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12184 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:14:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (ts7-9o-31.idirect.com [216.154.8.31]) by orion.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA04203 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:14:16 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005501be660e$82bc33e0$1f089ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:13:30 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >You're in the right place... GMECM and EFI332 have specific charters, >but diy_efi is open to just about any kind of engine management topic. > How does a person get hooked into the GMECM list? Thanks; Walt. From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 23:17:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA15017 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:17:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15013 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:17:15 -0500 Received: from computor (ppp-209-77-89-44.scrm01.pacbell.net [209.77.89.44]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id UAA22862 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:17:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <002d01be65f6$0afa7960$2c594dd1@computor> From: "Mark Romans" To: Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:18:21 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Steve: Is the GMECM list going yet? I really want to be on that if possible. Thanks. Mark -----Original Message----- From: steve ravet To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 10:06 AM Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? >You're in the right place... GMECM and EFI332 have specific charters, >but diy_efi is open to just about any kind of engine management topic. > >Heinz Wittenbecher wrote: >> >> Apologies if I'm not. >> It wasn't quite clear in the Charter on whether DIY means only DIYers that >> build from scratch or whether perhaps it includes folks like myself that >> converted his GMC motorhome's 455 Olds to ported fuel injection that's using >> the Accel ECU. I recently added an engine monitor with individual egt's etc >> and will be adding theAccel VIC unit in the next few days. Obviously I'm a >> newbie to efi and really just an amateur technician that enjoys his GMC. >> >> It's a learn by doing program and every once in a while I'm stuck and find >> myself looking for help. I.e. setting up the EFI in general (using Accel's >> Calmap software in realtime), not so much for dragstrip performance but >> maximun reliability with reasonal fuel economy and performance. The engine >> monitor has a datalogging function and I expect to be using Excel or some >> other program to monitor the engine over time to hopefully pre-empt >> breakdowns without wasting time left on engine. >> >> If I'm in the wrong place, my apologies in advance and if so I'll scoot outa >> here. If I am in the right place I'd like to ask whether any information is >> available for the proper mixture setting using EGT's. I did search the >> archives but was not able to draw any conclusion. In my airplane days we >> used to go peak and then enrichen 50-75 degrees. Would the same apply or can >> each cylinder be run closer to peak? With the VIC I expect to be able to >> adjust each injector so that no compromised setting has to be used. >> >> TIA - Heinz >> '76 GMC Classic MH >> www.bytedesigns.com/gmc > >-- >Steve Ravet >steve.ravet@arm.com >Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. >www.arm.com > From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 23:53:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA15635 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:53:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15631 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:53:46 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11870 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:53:45 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id UAA23955 for diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:53:45 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903040453.UAA23955@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: I'm Back... (fwd) To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (DIY EFI List) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:53:44 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This bounced to me: > From: rr > Reply-To: RRauscher@nni.com > X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: I'm Back... > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > List members, I managed to climb back from the edge of the earth. Please > note > the change of email address. My new address is rrauscher@nni.com. > Anything > sent to my old address since Feb 19th, I have not read. (I've just found > out > that address is still valid, don't know why, but it is). > Good to be back.... > BobR > P.S. More to come. > -- From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 3 23:59:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA15793 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:59:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-1.global2000.net (root@mail-1.global2000.net [209.203.129.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA15788 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:59:25 -0500 Received: from dapiper.viperlink.com (ip-312.global2000.net [209.203.145.12]) by mail-1.global2000.net (8.9.12/SecureModePlus) with SMTP id XAA31298 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:59:22 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199903040459.XAA31298@mail-1.global2000.net> X-Sender: dapiper@mail.one.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:59:18 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: David Piper Subject: Dynojet for sale/lease Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there anybody out there? Who wants a great performance tuning tool, that is. This is Dynojet's model 248H chassis dyno with lube oil style hydraulic lift suitable for above ground installations. Includes computer, printer, latest SW upgrade, tie downs and many spares. Unit includes CDS data acquisition system which can measure any pressure, temperature or flow on the engine simultaneously, while measuring HP and torque. For example; boost, fuel press and flow, EGT, exh back press, turbine back press, intercooler in/out temps, Lambda (O2 sensor) and intk charge temp and press. Use the latest tool for quantifying the performance of aftermarket parts for your customer's satisfaction. Substantiate the impriovements of your ECU chip reprogramming business. Perform development work for race teams with the official licensed dyno of NASCAR. Price is $10K and take over lease payments of $705/mo. There are 24 payments remaining. Relocation forces sale. For info on the DynoJet, see dynojet.com web site or call anytime. Contact: David Piper Days 518-233-2499 Eves 518-237-4780 dapiper@one.net From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 01:39:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA17407 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:39:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17403; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 01:39:12 -0500 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26623; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:39:11 -0800 (PST) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id WAA13490; Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:39:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199903040639.WAA13490@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: More bounces... To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (DIY EFI List), efi332@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (EFI332) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 22:39:11 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Got to keep that s*bscribe word out of the first few lines... > Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:48:29 +0000 > From: steve ravet > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) > X-Accept-Language: en > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , > "efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" > Subject: GM ECM list is up and running > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've gotten a few questions about the GM ECM list. It is UP and RUNNING > right now. To subscribe, send an email to > majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > In the body, put > subcribe gmecm > Simple as that! > -- > Steve Ravet > ARM, INC > steve.ravet@arm.com > www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 02:01:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA17786 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:01:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA17782 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:01:35 -0500 Received: from koala (137.82.2.60) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:01:05 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:00:38 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: aluminum intake cosmetics In-Reply-To: <199903040459.XAA31298@mail-1.global2000.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry about the non-EFI question but it's sort of related. I need some advice on how to best preserve the good looks of a freshly glass beaded intake manifold. Alot of people are saying stay away from clear coat as it will chip and flake off, supposedly it doesn't stick well to aluminum. (?) I've also been told about powder coating but was wondering if there were any pros or cons to that too? Should I just leave it alone? Polishing would be ideal but I refuse to spend a couple $100 over cosmetics (spend a whole day doing it myself is ok however). As usual any and all advice is much appreciated. cheers, jw P.S. If anybody can give me any tips on how to polish in the tight areas of an intake then I might try my hand at it. I assume I need I die grinder (will a dremmel drill do?) but don't know what I need for buffing pads or where to get them. From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 05:21:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20125 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 05:21:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from queenie (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20120 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 05:21:01 -0500 Received: from cruzers.com (surf40.cruzers.com [205.215.232.40]) by queenie (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA00197 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:34:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36DE5EFE.27CD1B7F@cruzers.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 02:22:56 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Re: ALDL, again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Padgett 0sirius wrote: > > > http://www.isthq.com/~dan/aldl.htm > > Thank you, I have that but it does not give a reference to the *order* of > the data stream which will take several frames to discover. > For instance the integrator counts is 128 which is a 080h. > Problem is there are two bytes in the data stream with that value. It _does_ list the order - bytes 1 through 25, in that order. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 05:48:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA20359 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 05:48:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA20355 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 05:48:14 -0500 Received: from 96.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.96) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu, 4 Mar 1999 02:53:31 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, fanglers@xephic.dynip.com Subject: Combustion Third Edition Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:47:37 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <36df6071.1972699@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu First perusal thoughts Its a primary reference work - filled with many I and we's, meaning the author did a lot of primary research. This is definitely not a Doctoral Thesis survey work. Next, its written in understandable english - not acabuerocratic gobbledegook - another sure sign the author understands the material and is actually trying to convey his thoughts to the reader. Also, the math is mostly algebra - readily understandable and actually sometimes useful. How dare the author actually give the reader a chance to understand it? Starts out with a somewhat clear explanation of combustion related thermodynamics and builds on it thru out the book. Breaks down the combustion process for hydrogen, nitrogen and most small hydrocarbons. Did you know that methane (cow farts) is a primary combustion product along with ethane to a lesser extend and this is the primary unburned hydrocarbons that the EPA and the Enviro-Whackos have their panties in a bunch about. Talks about phases of combustion. Differences between homogeneous and heterogenous combustion. Goes into droplet burning. Actually tries to lead you into understanding what happens in the fire. Very little auto-specific content - but major understanding of what and why. Will toss tidbits as I read further. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 08:10:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA21631 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:10:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21627 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:10:48 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id GAA26756 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 06:10:47 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903041310.GAA26756@user2.inficad.com> Subject: How do AICs work? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu (EFI ) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 06:10:45 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have some questions about some AIC/AFC (Additional Injector/Fuel Controllers) I'm hoping maybe someone here can answer. I understand the basis for these in that you somehow measure how much extra fuel you need either through the MAF or MAP and some other sensors of your stock ECM (temp, TPS, etc) and inject the required extra fuel through 1 or 2 extra injectors. This is presumably without the stock ECM knowing or caring about it. I'm wondering how this can be. I've turbo'd my 4 cyl engine and I've measured the duty cycle of my injectors with an automotive multimeter and found that they reach 100% duty cycle @ 9 psi @ 5000 rpm. Now supposing I added an AIC that injected the extra fuel the boost requires. Forget for now how the AIC figures out how much it needs to inject, just that it does. The stock ECM though is still reading directly how much air the engine is ingesting. My ECM has shown to be capable of injecting the correct amount of fuel under boost up until the duty cycle of the injectors is maxed out. It reads the air mass from the MAF and dumps the correct amount of fuel for it. My mixture at WOT (*above 3000 rpm) stays rich all the way to 5K. With the AIC also dumping fuel to make up for the boost I end up with an extremely rich mixture. At 3/4 throttle, closed-loop mode this would be fine. But once I hit WOT, the computer switches to open-open loop. It doesn't know that my AIC is injecting fuel as well, and it isn't watching the O2 sensor to know that the mixture is going rich. So my WOT mixture is going to be way too rich and my stock injectors duty cycle is still going to max out at 5000 rpm assuming of course it'll rev that high from choking on all the fuel. None of the AICs I've seen seem to make the stock ECM compensate in open- loop for the extra fuel being injected. It seems like the AIC would also have to either intercept and massage the signals from various sensors before reaching the ECM, or intercept the signal to the stock injectors and chop them off so they don't fire as long. So why is this apparently not a problem? What am I missing? thanks --Dan From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 08:17:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA21743 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:17:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from darius.concentric.net (darius.concentric.net [207.155.198.79]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21739 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:17:12 -0500 Received: from mcfeely.concentric.net (mcfeely [207.155.198.83]) by darius.concentric.net (8.9.1a/(98/12/15 5.12)) id IAA00535; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:17:11 -0500 (EST) [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Received: from jhess (ts003d24.dal-tx.concentric.net [206.173.140.132]) by mcfeely.concentric.net (8.9.1a) id IAA24299; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:17:09 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c701be6641$4f49da20$5bfb11ac@jhess> From: "John Hess" To: Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:17:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu et moi, ici! -----Original Message----- From: Mark Romans To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? >Hi Steve: Is the GMECM list going yet? I really want to be on that if >possible. Thanks. >Mark >-----Original Message----- >From: steve ravet >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 10:06 AM >Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? > > >>You're in the right place... GMECM and EFI332 have specific charters, >>but diy_efi is open to just about any kind of engine management topic. >> >>Heinz Wittenbecher wrote: >>> >>> Apologies if I'm not. >>> It wasn't quite clear in the Charter on whether DIY means only DIYers >that >>> build from scratch or whether perhaps it includes folks like myself that >>> converted his GMC motorhome's 455 Olds to ported fuel injection that's >using >>> the Accel ECU. I recently added an engine monitor with individual egt's >etc >>> and will be adding theAccel VIC unit in the next few days. Obviously I'm >a >>> newbie to efi and really just an amateur technician that enjoys his GMC. >>> >>> It's a learn by doing program and every once in a while I'm stuck and >find >>> myself looking for help. I.e. setting up the EFI in general (using >Accel's >>> Calmap software in realtime), not so much for dragstrip performance but >>> maximun reliability with reasonal fuel economy and performance. The >engine >>> monitor has a datalogging function and I expect to be using Excel or some >>> other program to monitor the engine over time to hopefully pre-empt >>> breakdowns without wasting time left on engine. >>> >>> If I'm in the wrong place, my apologies in advance and if so I'll scoot >outa >>> here. If I am in the right place I'd like to ask whether any information >is >>> available for the proper mixture setting using EGT's. I did search the >>> archives but was not able to draw any conclusion. In my airplane days we >>> used to go peak and then enrichen 50-75 degrees. Would the same apply or >can >>> each cylinder be run closer to peak? With the VIC I expect to be able to >>> adjust each injector so that no compromised setting has to be used. >>> >>> TIA - Heinz >>> '76 GMC Classic MH >>> www.bytedesigns.com/gmc >> >>-- >>Steve Ravet >>steve.ravet@arm.com >>Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. >>www.arm.com >> > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 09:40:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23220 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:40:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cccntcon01.ucm.com (stonewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23216 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:40:23 -0500 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by CCCNTCON01 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:40:18 -0600 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Electronic advance problems... Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:40:20 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sounds to me like the HEI module is over heating. See if it has heat sink grease on it, that would explain the 43 min time out. > -----Original Message----- > From: andy quaas [SMTP:realsquash@yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 1999 3:19 PM > To: diy efi > Subject: Electronic advance problems... > > this is long.... > > Someone contacted me with a problem that they are having with their > projection 4Di. They have it tuned up on a 454 with a 1988 > remote-coil HEI distributor. It will run for 43 minutes (every time), > no matter if its idling or driving down the road. They are also using > the ESC module and knock sensor. They tried a 1980's big-cap > electronic advance HEI and it did the exact same thing. They were > running with a vacuum-advance HEI and it ran just fine until they > swapped in the new one. Here's the weird part-The holley has a > separate tach wire that you use if you have the vacuum advance > distributor that doesn't get used when you use the elec. dist. After > the thing dies, they disconnect the 4-wire connector from the dist. > and isntall the tach wire onto the negative side of the coil. The > thing starts right up. They shut it off immidiately and reconnect the > 4-wire connector and it runs for another 43 minutes. > > Any ideas? I told them to nix the ESC and try it. > > Andy > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 09:46:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23346 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:46:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-64.s1.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23342 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:46:41 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00309 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:46:43 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:46:43 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903041446.JAA00309@webserver> Message-ID: <36DE9BB1.3A2067AF@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 14:41:53 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Should I just leave it alone? Polishing would be ideal but I > refuse to spend a couple $100 over cosmetics (spend a whole day doing it > myself is ok however). Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a sand blaster yourself. My machine shop showed me aluminum paint, which is a primer and a paint all in one... they have it in black, silver, and red, and purchase it for 5 bucks a can. I looked at the can, and its generic, however they said they get it from a local body shop. Not a great lead, but maybe a well-equipped auto store can turn you into the right direction. Powder coating I think would be acceptable, but I've never tried. let me know how you make out, because I'll be ready to paint my aluminum Edelbrock in a few days! I'll do the reverse too -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 09:53:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23550 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:53:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scotty.nni.com (mail.djs.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23546 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:53:53 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.10.213]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:50:56 -0500 Message-ID: <36DEBE19.2706@nni.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:08:41 -0800 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: I'm Back... (fwd) References: <199903040453.UAA23955@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is interesting, as I sent this message to the list. I checked the archives and it's not there! Some others received the message as I got a response from them. O'well. BobR >This bounced to me: > >> From: rr >> Reply-To: RRauscher@nni.com >> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: I'm Back... >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >> List members, I managed to climb back from the edge of the earth. Please >> note >> the change of email address. My new address is rrauscher@nni.com. >> Anything >> sent to my old address since Feb 19th, I have not read. (I've just found >> out >> that address is still valid, don't know why, but it is). >> >> Good to be back.... >> >> BobR -- From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 10:27:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24282 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:27:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24278 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:27:34 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.35]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA00354 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:27:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00f801be6653$f3bfbae0$23633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: I'm Back... (fwd) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:30:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check again, I found it. Depending on what's going on with the big machine. Might not be till much later, or even days for the list to be up to date. There have been times when the archives have been down for days. Bruce >This is interesting, as I sent this message to the list. I checked the >archives and it's not there! Some others received the message as I got >a response from them. O'well. > >BobR > >>This bounced to me: >> >>> From: rr >>> Reply-To: RRauscher@nni.com >>> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) >>> MIME-Version: 1.0 >>> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>> Subject: I'm Back... >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> >>> List members, I managed to climb back from the edge of the earth. Please >>> note >>> the change of email address. My new address is rrauscher@nni.com. >>> Anything >>> sent to my old address since Feb 19th, I have not read. (I've just found >>> out >>> that address is still valid, don't know why, but it is). >>> >>> Good to be back.... >>> >>> BobR > >-- > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 10:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24396 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:30:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24391 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:30:42 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp108.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.108]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA28029 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:25:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001c01be6653$d085c920$6c7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: How do AICs work? Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:29:36 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >It doesn't know that my AIC is injecting fuel as well, and it isn't watching >the O2 sensor to know that the mixture is going rich. So my WOT mixture is >going to be way too rich and my stock injectors duty cycle is still going >to max out at 5000 rpm assuming of course it'll rev that high from choking >on all the fuel. >So why is this apparently not a problem? What am I missing? Have the controller kick on under boost instead of WOT, say maybe at 6 psi right before your factory injectors max out. Then just wick up the boost until it is no longer slobbering rich. Soren Rounds From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 10:35:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24552 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:35:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from styx.ibmoto.com (styx.ibmoto.com [129.38.252.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24548 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:34:59 -0500 Received: from dancer.ibmoto.com (carmine@dancer.ibmoto.com [129.38.130.11]) by styx.ibmoto.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA10574 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:34:58 -0600 (CST) From: Carmine Nicoletta Received: (carmine@localhost) by dancer.ibmoto.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) id JAA38372 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:34:57 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:34:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199903041534.JAA38372@dancer.ibmoto.com> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Timing Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry if this isn't diy_efi related, but I have a question regarding timing on a 5.0L HO 84 T/A. The timing tab on the timing cover is gone (replaced it with a new one due to a leaky seal). How do I set the correct timing without a tab indicator? Will access to diacom help? Thanks Carmine From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 10:38:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA24717 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:38:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24713 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:38:44 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA04190 for mail_from ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:38:41 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:38:41 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Should I just leave it alone? Polishing would be ideal but I >> refuse to spend a couple $100 over cosmetics (spend a whole day doing it >> myself is ok however). > >Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 >bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a >sand blaster yourself. My machine shop showed me aluminum >paint, which is a primer and a paint all in one... they have >it in black, silver, and red, and purchase it for 5 bucks a >can. I looked at the can, and its generic, however they >said they get it from a local body shop. > >Not a great lead, but maybe a well-equipped auto store can >turn you into the right direction. Powder coating I think >would be acceptable, but I've never tried. let me know how >you make out, because I'll be ready to paint my aluminum >Edelbrock in a few days! I'll do the reverse too Send them to HPC guys---have them coated inside and out--look good, and help performance too! Regards, Greg > > >-- >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport, CT 06606 > >http://www.xephic.dynip.com >1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental >1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV >1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) >2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 10:53:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA25143 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:53:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com [157.254.234.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA25138 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:53:52 -0500 Received: from smtprelay.tce.com (smtprelay.indy.tce.com [157.254.96.114]) by dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA20939 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:53:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from tceexch2.INDY.TCE.COM ([157.254.93.10]) by smtprelay.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24046 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:54:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by TCEEXCH2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:29:50 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B22601DE843E@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: TEST Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 07:10:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Test. I'm just trying to see if my internet access is suspended. Sorry for the inconvenience. No need to reply to this. From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 11:05:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25480 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:05:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arl.arizona.edu (mail.arl.Arizona.EDU [128.196.108.45]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25474 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:05:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (tyuhas@localhost) by mail.arl.arizona.edu (8.9.2/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id JAA09803 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:09:19 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:09:18 -0700 (MST) From: Terrill Yuhas To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: MPFI and SFI Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I was looking at options when it comes time to replace my GM MPFI V6. The newer versions of this V6 are SFI so a couple of thoughts came to mind (clearing out the cobwebs). I also checked in the archives for some extra info on the topic but essentially: - From my understanding, SFI engines use a cam sensor to tell the ECM where in the firing order it is so it sounds like most of the differences are in the ECM. Working on that (weak) theory, if one year the engine is batch and the next it's sequential, you could drop in the sequential motor and run it as MPFI? - If I read this right in the archives, SFI is more of a driveability enhancement than a "power adder" so if it produces 180hp SFI, then it should produce the same batch-fired? Just trying to get my EFI myths and legends straight! Also, if George Dailey is still on the list I'd appreciate to hearing on how his almost similar swap went about two years ago. There wasn't a "closure" post in the archives so I don't know if it ended in utter failure or not. Thanks, Terrill From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 11:14:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA25770 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:14:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA25765 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:14:21 -0500 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01J8FG20VQUO0000FM@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 10:14:18 CDT Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:03:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <591429.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 -> bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a For $50 or so you can buy an inexpensive siphon feed sandblaster, and then you'll have it for the next project. Of course, you'll need a compressor, but you probably wanted one anyway. Then a nice garage to keep the sandblaster and compressor in... hmm, might be better to just have someone else do it. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 12:19:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27623 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:19:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27619 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:19:16 -0500 Received: from koala (137.82.2.60) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:18:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:18:18 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: Greg Hermann cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Who or what are they? Got a 1-800 number or a web page? thanks, jw On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > Send them to HPC guys---have them coated inside and out--look good, and > help performance too! > > Regards, Greg > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 13:07:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28598 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:07:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28594 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:07:37 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA04941 for mail_from ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:07:20 -0700 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:07:20 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Who or what are they? Got a 1-800 number or a web page? >thanks, >jw High Performance Coatings--Salt Lake City, Okie City. Do not have number handy, Let me know if 1-800 info cannot get it for you. They do headers, pistons, manifolds, chambers, ports, you name it. (Several different types of coatings.) Greg > > >On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > >> Send them to HPC guys---have them coated inside and out--look good, and >> help performance too! >> >> Regards, Greg >> > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 13:19:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA28882 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:19:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from problem.problem.org (trends-gw.available [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA28869 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:19:17 -0500 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m10Icll-0000GNC; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:22:49 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Subject: Re: Holley 4D1 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:22:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: <19990302214020.7949.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com> from "andy quaas" at Mar 2, 99 01:40:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > I had a 900cfm 4Di. I just bought another one sunday. They are great > for power and tuneability. I don't know about emmisions, but they > should be just fine if tuned properly. The injectors fire > sequentially. Yes, all 4. One injector fires, then the next, and so > on. how tunable is this also what approx cost are they going for used I have a unique use for 1 can you control which injector fires in which order or do they just cycle around in a circle ( I guess I could switch wires around to get the firing order I wanted) Clive > > Andy > > > ---"Eric J. Lilleness" wrote: > > > > I'm considering a Holley 4Di for a moderately built Ford 460, about > 475 HP. > > > > My main goal is passing emissions, but I would also like some of the > other > > features of EFI, such as not hitting 2500 RPM when I cold-start the > damn thing > > at 0530 to go to work....... > > > > As an FYI, I had a shop to the actual motor R&R, but picked all the > components > > myself, as well as porting the heads, so feel free to send questions > on big > > Fords my way. > > > > Questions: > > > > (1) How will emissions on a Holley 4Di equipped engine compare to a > factory EFI? > > > > (2) Is there a way to insure that (as an example) the front right > injector > > will always be the injector that fires during the #1 cylinder's > intake stroke? > > This would seem to require that the ECU "knows" what cylinder each > ignition > > pulse is intended for. > > > > (3) If the answer to the above is "no", will emissions be about the > same as, > > or worse than batch-fired port injection? > > > > (4) Is the timing of the injector firing progammable in a manner > similar to > > ignition advance varying as a function of RPM? > > > > (5) Iv'e heard a few love/hate stories on Holley EFI; but how are > their > > current products, especially the 4Di? > > > > Thanks, Eric > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 13:36:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA29145 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:36:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from eamail1.unisys.com (eamail1.unisys.com [192.61.103.80]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29141 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:36:18 -0500 Received: from ih85.ea.unisys.com (ih85.ea.unisys.com [192.61.103.85]) by eamail1.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA03379; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:35:14 GMT Received: from us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com (us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com [192.61.145.102]) by ih85.ea.unisys.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA10622; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:35:15 GMT Received: by us-ea-gtwy-7.ea.unisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:35:15 -0600 Message-ID: <3B103A0D158ED211B0DE00609703ED8217DA8D@us-rb-exch-1.rb.unisys.com> From: "Falb, John" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" , Greg Hermann Subject: RE: aluminum intake cosmetics Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 12:36:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu also try http://www.goracing.com/techline/cat-4.html clear protective coating -----Original Message----- From: James Weiler [mailto:james@brc.ubc.ca] From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 13:53:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA29560 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:53:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29554 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:53:55 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.35]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA25596; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:53:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <024801be6670$c6ec5560$23633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: Handheld O-Scope Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:56:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 (800) 543-4330 Just passing this along Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 13:56:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA29660 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:56:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com [157.254.234.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29656 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:56:28 -0500 Received: from smtprelay.tce.com (smtprelay.indy.tce.com [157.254.96.114]) by dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA15771 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:55:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from tceexch2.INDY.TCE.COM (tceexch2.indy.tce.com [157.254.92.18]) by smtprelay.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA19603 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:56:49 -0500 (EST) Received: by TCEEXCH2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:55:52 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B22601DE8464@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: aluminum intake cosmetics Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:54:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi James. I happen to have a lot of experience with home grown polishing. You can make yourself a polishing rig out of a dryer motor, a 2 x 12 (I clamp my setup to the workbench - that way I can remove it when I'm not polishing), 2 - 2inch x 1/8" pieces of angle iron 20-24" long, 2 pillow block bearings with 1/2 - 3/4" dia inside dia and a bar of steel (I'd suggest about 24 -28" long). To make a long story short - basically you need to find someone with a lathe to turn down the ends down to about 1/2" and thread the ends for you. The shaft goes through the bearings (which are bolted to the angle iron and therefore the board. The angle iron needs 4 slots (I made mine about 3 inches long each and used 7/16" hardware - so the slot needs to be 7/16" or a smiggin' larger). This allows adjustment for the fan belt that connects the motor to the shaft. Then you need (forgot to list 2 pulleys) - actually I've got 4 - 2", 3", 4" and 6" which gives me a lot of different ratios. Basically though I use 2 and 2 and 2 and 4 the most so 3 pulleys would get you by. Buffs - I use 6" x 1/2", 8" x 1/2", with widths of 1/2" and 1". I use almost exclusively spiral sewn cotton buffs. I get what I want with them and it saves me money. I also mix compounds on the same buff - AHhhhh! Yea, if you're independently wealthy then go a buff for each compound - I can't afford it and I get the results I want (at least on aluminum and stainless steel). Compounds, I use emery (the coarsest), stainless compound, tripoli, white and red jeweler's rouge. Over time I've whittled this down to stainless, white and red. I use emery for really terrible looking motorcycle cases. cleans them up fast so I can get moving. For your intake manifolds though - you need more. I have a electric die grinder (about 14" long and weighs about 3-4 pounds). Sucker gets heavy as you use it. You use a mandrel and cotton cone buffs with this thing. I use white rouge and jewelers with this thing. Anything coarser leaves a finish that doesn't match the coloring I get with the other wheels (this thing turns very fast). You have to use this to get down in all those little places. Believe it or not, I do not have to use this anywhere to polish the cases of any motorcycle case I've ever done. Can do it all with 6" buffs! So you picked a tough piece to learn on. Hope it helps. BTW, once you get the hang of it - it should take about 3 hours to have that intake manifold looking perfect! Like a mirror! I'm actually working on an article on how to make one of these setups on my web page http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Dropzone/8979 but just haven't quite got it done! It should be out there in a month or so though. rick > -----Original Message----- > From: James Weiler [SMTP:james@brc.ubc.ca] > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 2:01 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: aluminum intake cosmetics > > > Sorry about the non-EFI question but it's sort of related. I need some > advice > on how to best preserve the good looks of a freshly glass beaded intake > manifold. Alot of people are saying stay away from clear coat as it will > chip and flake off, supposedly it doesn't stick well to aluminum. (?) > I've also been told about powder coating but was wondering if there were > any pros or cons to that too? > > Should I just leave it alone? Polishing would be ideal but I > refuse to spend a couple $100 over cosmetics (spend a whole day doing it > myself is ok however). > As usual any and all advice is much appreciated. > cheers, > jw > > P.S. If anybody can give me any tips on how to polish in the tight areas > of an intake then I might try my hand at it. I assume I need I die > grinder (will a dremmel drill do?) but don't know what I need for buffing > pads or where to get them. From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 14:37:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA30719 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:37:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ihgw2.lucent.com (ihgw2.lucent.com [207.19.48.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA30714 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:37:54 -0500 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com by ihig2.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id NAA24803; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:25:03 -0600 Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id OAA20708; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:37:41 -0500 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id OAA20705; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:37:39 -0500 Message-ID: <36DEE17C.848203CF@lucent.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 14:39:40 -0500 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: <591429.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Dave, You were going down the right road. Why did you quit. I've been traveling down that road for 30 years, and the end isn't in site. I however, only have to finish the siding on my new 5 car garage. Ken Dave Williams wrote: > > -> Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 > -> bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a > > For $50 or so you can buy an inexpensive siphon feed sandblaster, and > then you'll have it for the next project. Of course, you'll need a > compressor, but you probably wanted one anyway. Then a nice garage to > keep the sandblaster and compressor in... hmm, might be better to just > have someone else do it. > > ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== > I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? > my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? > =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 14:46:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA30986 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:46:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA30982 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:46:23 -0500 Received: from koala (137.82.2.60) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:45:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:45:25 -0800 (PST) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: Ken Kelly cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics In-Reply-To: <36DEE17C.848203CF@lucent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I think we should start a new mailing list that centers around flaming people with 5 car garages. :) Your the kind of guy I could grow to hate pretty fast. Lucky bastard :) cheers, jw On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Ken Kelly wrote: > Dave, > You were going down the right road. Why did you quit. I've > been traveling down that road for 30 years, and the end > isn't in site. I however, only have to finish the siding on > my new 5 car garage. > > Ken > > Dave Williams wrote: > > > > -> Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 > > -> bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a > > > > For $50 or so you can buy an inexpensive siphon feed sandblaster, and > > then you'll have it for the next project. Of course, you'll need a > > compressor, but you probably wanted one anyway. Then a nice garage to > > keep the sandblaster and compressor in... hmm, might be better to just > > have someone else do it. > > > > ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== > > I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? > > my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? > > =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 15:33:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA32058 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:33:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ihgw2.lucent.com (ihgw2.lucent.com [207.19.48.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA32054 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:33:26 -0500 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com by ihig2.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id OAA22775; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:20:33 -0600 Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id PAA25701; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:33:13 -0500 Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id PAA25690; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:33:09 -0500 Message-ID: <36DEEE7C.3E035A13@lucent.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:35:08 -0500 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Weiler Original-CC: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James, Not luck - Perseverence. I've been collecting for 30 years - I'm in my 50's, and I pounded every last nail in the thing. I carried every shingle up the ladder and nailed it in place. Never give up. Even an old Fart like me can do it. I even put in 11 foot ceilings. After I finish the garage I will save for a lift. I responded to the original post because it was going my way. I always buy the tool rather than paying for labor. In the long run it pays. I may have skinned a few knuckles, and had a few sprains, but the tools go in my collection and I'll have them forever. Ken James Weiler wrote: > > I think we should start a new mailing list that centers around flaming > people with 5 car garages. :) > Your the kind of guy I could grow to hate > pretty fast. Lucky bastard :) > > cheers, > jw > > On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Ken Kelly wrote: > > > Dave, > > You were going down the right road. Why did you quit. I've > > been traveling down that road for 30 years, and the end > > isn't in site. I however, only have to finish the siding on > > my new 5 car garage. > > > > Ken > > > > Dave Williams wrote: > > > > > > -> Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 > > > -> bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a > > > > > > For $50 or so you can buy an inexpensive siphon feed sandblaster, and > > > then you'll have it for the next project. Of course, you'll need a > > > compressor, but you probably wanted one anyway. Then a nice garage to > > > keep the sandblaster and compressor in... hmm, might be better to just > > > have someone else do it. > > > > > > ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== > > > I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? > > > my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? > > > =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 15:59:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA32506 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:59:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-64.s1.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA32500 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:59:00 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00243 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:56:28 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 15:56:28 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903042056.PAA00243@webserver> Message-ID: <36DEF24D.AD4F064E@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 20:51:25 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: <36DEEE7C.3E035A13@lucent.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > thing. I carried every shingle up the ladder and nailed it > in place. Never give up. Even an old Fart like me can do it. > I even put in 11 foot ceilings. After I finish the garage I > will save for a lift. I responded to the original post That's way kewl Ken, nice job! As far as a lift goes, a friend of mine (well, aquantence really) created a bridge crane by building his 3 car garage with two I-Beams across the top of the cinder blocks on the back and the front, and created an I-Beam pair of cross pieces with large steel wheels. This piece slides left and right across the garage, and has a piece in the center that moves across those movable I-Beams, so the crane can be positioned where he wants. He has a manual chain lift which is pretty neat too.. he said the crane took many, many weekends to build, and cost him about 2500 for all the materials. When I buy a house, I will be copying his design, it came out really slick. > skinned a few knuckles, and had a few sprains, but the tools > go in my collection and I'll have them forever. This is very true. Unfortunately for me, I have a one car garage, and having a place to PUT the tools is a big problem! I need to move, like, tomorrow. -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 16:28:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00289 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:28:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from send1e.yahoomail.com (send1e.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA00285 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:28:18 -0500 Message-ID: <19990304212705.7183.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by send1e; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 13:27:05 PST Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:27:05 -0800 (PST) From: andy quaas Subject: Re: Holley 4D1 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The fuel, spark, and knock are completely programmable. The fuel map has 64 x 64 resolution. Up to 41.8 degrees of ignition advance (can't remember the resolution, but at least 10 x 10). You can download the software at my website (www.genevaonline.com/~efi/files/eev21. exe or zip). There is a map for acceleration and such, cold-start compensation, and other little things (oxy trig, idle, etc). Used I would say around $600-800. The injectors do fire in a circle. There are in fact 4 drivers in the ECM. andy ---Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > how tunable is this > also what approx cost are they going for used > I have a unique use for 1 > can you control which injector fires in which order or do they just cycle > around in a circle ( I guess I could switch wires around to get the firing order > I wanted) > > Clive _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 16:29:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00324 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:29:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00319 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:29:15 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.35]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA18196 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:29:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <027e01be6686$790d05e0$23633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:32:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ya also tend to learn a couple things on the way, least for me that seems true. Bruce > I always buy the tool rather >than paying for labor. In the long run it pays. I may have >skinned a few knuckles, and had a few sprains, but the tools >go in my collection and I'll have them forever. > Ken From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 16:42:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00849 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:42:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00845 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:42:17 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-175.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.175]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA12278 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:42:15 GMT Message-ID: <36DEFE78.1C7F@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:43:20 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: <36DEEE7C.3E035A13@lucent.com> <36DEF24D.AD4F064E@xephic.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Go to www.eastwoodco.com for all your polishing needs. From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 16:45:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00963 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:45:03 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00959 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 16:45:02 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-175.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.175]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA49810 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:45:00 GMT Message-ID: <36DEFF24.7840@ibm.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 16:46:12 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: <36DEEE7C.3E035A13@lucent.com> <36DEF24D.AD4F064E@xephic.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I need to move, like, tomorrow. > You mean , like YESTERDAY, Fred. From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 17:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01619 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:05:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01615 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:05:24 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id OAA48756; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:05:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:05:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics In-Reply-To: <36DEEE7C.3E035A13@lucent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Ken Kelly wrote: > James, > Not luck - Perseverence. I've been collecting for 30 years > - I'm in my 50's, and I pounded every last nail in the > thing. I carried every shingle up the ladder and nailed it > in place. Never give up. Even an old Fart like me can do it. > I even put in 11 foot ceilings. After I finish the garage I > will save for a lift. I responded to the original post > because it was going my way. I always buy the tool rather > than paying for labor. In the long run it pays. I may have > skinned a few knuckles, and had a few sprains, but the tools > go in my collection and I'll have them forever. > Unless there is a divorce in your future... From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 17:18:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA01885 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:18:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-64.s1.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA01881 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 17:18:42 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00284 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:18:46 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:18:46 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903042218.RAA00284@webserver> Message-ID: <36DF059D.556F76A2@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 22:13:49 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: <36DEEE7C.3E035A13@lucent.com> <36DEF24D.AD4F064E@xephic.dynip.com> <36DEFF24.7840@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > You mean , like YESTERDAY, Fred. Same thing, more or less LOL. Actually, to move, I have too much stuff now. First, the jeep project has to go. Its only taking a month longer than it was supposed to. -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 18:06:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA02806 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:06:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA02802 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:06:48 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-41.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.110]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id SAA01437 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:06:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <038d01be6694$19450820$23633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: MPFI and SFI Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:08:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Terrill Yuhas To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 11:20 AM Subject: MPFI and SFI Your terms are so general that I'm lost at what you mean. Do you want to change ecms, or cars?. If ecms what do you have?. Bruce >I was looking at options when it comes time to replace my GM MPFI V6. The >newer versions of this V6 are SFI so a couple of thoughts came to mind >(clearing out the cobwebs). I also checked in the archives for some extra >info on the topic but essentially: > >- From my understanding, SFI engines use a cam sensor to tell the ECM >where in the firing order it is so it sounds like most of the differences >are in the ECM. Working on that (weak) theory, if one year the engine is >batch and the next it's sequential, you could drop in the sequential motor >and run it as MPFI? > >- If I read this right in the archives, SFI is more of a driveability >enhancement than a "power adder" so if it produces 180hp SFI, then it >should produce the same batch-fired? > >Just trying to get my EFI myths and legends straight! > >Also, if George Dailey is still on the list I'd appreciate to hearing on >how his almost similar swap went about two years ago. There wasn't a >"closure" post in the archives so I don't know if it ended in utter >failure or not. > >Thanks, > >Terrill > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 18:22:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03032 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:22:22 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03026 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:22:20 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-41.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.110]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id SAA27050 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:22:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <039d01be6696$4510a980$23633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: Dwell control vs timing control Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:25:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu gm specific I been thinking way to much on this, but, I'll stick my head out again, and say what your reading in the prom is timing corrections, and the stuff for being a cylinder late in the computations. If the dwell controll, was in the prom, then disconnecting the distributor from the ecm would stop the engine from running. So the dwell control is in the module. So every thing in the prom would look the same from Dissy to DIS. Just a matter of when the timing starts, as set by est signal. Thoughts anyone?. Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 18:56:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA03599 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:56:04 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03595 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:56:02 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-42.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.60]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id SAA23683 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:56:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <03e801be669a$fa26dc00$23633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: 93+ gm truck ecms Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:59:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu anyone know any details on the vss signal to the ecm?. They read off of a buffer amplifier. Bruce From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 19:24:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA04166 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:24:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA04162 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:24:32 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv18.1) id 8VTUa05230 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:22:59 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <8d028055.36df23e3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:22:59 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Dwell control vs timing control Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 3/4/99 6:24:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@bright.net writes: > gm specific > I been thinking way to much on this, but, I'll stick my head out again, and > say > what your reading in the prom is timing corrections, and the stuff for being > a cylinder late in the computations. > If the dwell controll, was in the prom, then disconnecting the distributor > from > the ecm would stop the engine from running. So the dwell control is in the > module. > So every thing in the prom would look the same from Dissy to DIS. Just > a matter of when the timing starts, as set by est signal. > Thoughts anyone?. > Bruce > According to the P4 Document, the module controls dwell in EST BYPSS mode, and the ECM controls dwell in EST mode. I know this is how Ford does it too, according to some books I've read. Also, you can see the dwell in the EST signal, and the GM EST signal looks just like the Ford SPOUT signal that I've seen in some books...Dwell control and all. In short, based on everything I've read and seen, I am about 99% certain that the ECM controls dwell under NORMAL operating conditions. But you are absolutely right that the EST signal for a DIS and a Dissy are identical, it is just the TIMING that is off. When I use the Dissy prom with my DIS, every thing is about 60 degrees too far advanced. What I don't understand is why when I changed the KREANGL (Spark Reference Angle) in the SyTy .bin, absolutely NOTHING happens. According to the P4 Document, KREFANGL is subtracted from the total timing computed by the ECM. This should fix the problem but it doesn't. I can detect no changes in spark angle no matter what value I put in there. It seems to have no effect whatsoever. I guess this is why someone simply inverted the Reference Pulse Because there is no other way I can find to bring the timing back to where it should be. There should be no reason to invert the EST signal. It's the Reference Pulse that is off. If you get the ECM to read the Rising Edge instead of the Falling edge (by inverting the signal) then everything should work alot better. Maybe still a few degrees off, but not 60 degrees off! In short, Bruce, you were right that the solution is to invert the signal (Reference Pulse). I just wanted to try a few things in the Prom first, but nothing worked. Which brings me to a question: How do you build a circuit that inverts a signal? :) Ted From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 20:32:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA05253 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:32:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f190.hotmail.com [209.185.130.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA05249 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:32:51 -0500 Received: (qmail 2212 invoked by uid 0); 5 Mar 1999 01:25:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990305012520.2211.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.246.130.80 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:25:20 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.246.130.80] From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: GN/Ttype List Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:25:20 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Back in message #129 or there abouts, someone mentioned the GN/Ttype list. Where do I find that list? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 21:09:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA05787 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:09:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA05783 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:09:58 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-42.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.60]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id VAA24616 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:09:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004601be66ad$af5967c0$3c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: GN/Ttype List Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:12:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: David Sagers To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 8:43 PM Subject: GN/Ttype List Should find it off of http://www.gnttype.org Bruce >Back in message #129 or there abouts, someone mentioned the GN/Ttype >list. Where do I find that list? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 21:36:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA06215 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:36:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA06211 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:36:44 -0500 Received: from computer (ts010d37.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.182.241]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA18949 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:36:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: Dwell control vs timing control Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:37:14 -0800 Message-ID: <000501be66b1$1441be50$f1b6adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <8d028055.36df23e3@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The ECM controlled dwell and compensates to spark latency when the bypass is connected, when bypass is open, or just starting up, dwell is controlled by the Distributor module, (or spark module in direct ignition systems). Some small anoint of spark advance is generated in the "open" bypass mode, about 6-8 degrees. Ward -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Tedscj@aol.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 4:23 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Dwell control vs timing control In a message dated 3/4/99 6:24:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, nacelp@bright.net writes: > gm specific > I been thinking way to much on this, but, I'll stick my head out again, and > say > what your reading in the prom is timing corrections, and the stuff for being > a cylinder late in the computations. > If the dwell controll, was in the prom, then disconnecting the distributor > from > the ecm would stop the engine from running. So the dwell control is in the > module. > So every thing in the prom would look the same from Dissy to DIS. Just > a matter of when the timing starts, as set by est signal. > Thoughts anyone?. > Bruce > According to the P4 Document, the module controls dwell in EST BYPSS mode, and the ECM controls dwell in EST mode. I know this is how Ford does it too, according to some books I've read. Also, you can see the dwell in the EST signal, and the GM EST signal looks just like the Ford SPOUT signal that I've seen in some books...Dwell control and all. In short, based on everything I've read and seen, I am about 99% certain that the ECM controls dwell under NORMAL operating conditions. But you are absolutely right that the EST signal for a DIS and a Dissy are identical, it is just the TIMING that is off. When I use the Dissy prom with my DIS, every thing is about 60 degrees too far advanced. What I don't understand is why when I changed the KREANGL (Spark Reference Angle) in the SyTy .bin, absolutely NOTHING happens. According to the P4 Document, KREFANGL is subtracted from the total timing computed by the ECM. This should fix the problem but it doesn't. I can detect no changes in spark angle no matter what value I put in there. It seems to have no effect whatsoever. I guess this is why someone simply inverted the Reference Pulse Because there is no other way I can find to bring the timing back to where it should be. There should be no reason to invert the EST signal. It's the Reference Pulse that is off. If you get the ECM to read the Rising Edge instead of the Falling edge (by inverting the signal) then everything should work alot better. Maybe still a few degrees off, but not 60 degrees off! In short, Bruce, you were right that the solution is to invert the signal (Reference Pulse). I just wanted to try a few things in the Prom first, but nothing worked. Which brings me to a question: How do you build a circuit that inverts a signal? :) Ted From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 22:18:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA06910 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:18:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06906 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:18:58 -0500 Received: from orion.idirect.com (orion.idirect.com [207.136.80.167]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12999 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:18:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from wsherwin (liv6-20.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.7.115]) by orion.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA95237 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:18:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008201be66cf$f2fbbc40$73079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: More bounces... Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:18:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Okay, what am I missing here? Every time I send a message to "Majordomo....." it kicks it back. I've tried various combinations, but to no avail. Exactly what syntax should I use for the title, and message body? Thanks; Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Orin Eman To: DIY EFI List ; EFI332 Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 12:05 AM Subject: More bounces... >Got to keep that s*bscribe word out of the first few lines... > >> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:48:29 +0000 >> From: steve ravet >> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) >> X-Accept-Language: en >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , >> "efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" >> Subject: GM ECM list is up and running >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> I've gotten a few questions about the GM ECM list. It is UP and RUNNING >> right now. To subscribe, send an email to > >> majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> In the body, put > >> subcribe gmecm > > >> Simple as that! > > > >> -- >> Steve Ravet >> ARM, INC >> steve.ravet@arm.com >> www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 23:02:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA07838 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:02:07 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA07832 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:02:05 -0500 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-242.mtco.com [206.69.130.242]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA16509 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:02:03 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36DF5796.68DFC5B@mtco.com> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 22:03:35 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: <3B103A0D158ED211B0DE00609703ED8217DA8D@us-rb-exch-1.rb.unisys.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Falb, John wrote: > also try > http://www.goracing.com/techline/cat-4.html > > clear protective coating I used TechLine ceramics on my pistons, etc. recommend them.. Get an old electric oven... & follow the instructions Tom S From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 23:15:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08112 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:15:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.sunbeach.net (mail.admbml.com [205.214.199.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA08108 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:15:08 -0500 Received: from default [196.3.193.77] by mail.sunbeach.net (SMTPD32-4.06) id A908A2700C8; Thu, 04 Mar 1999 23:09:44 EST Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990305001631.0074b088@mail.sunbeach.net> X-Sender: edwards@mail.sunbeach.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 00:16:31 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Pedro Haynes Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics In-Reply-To: <36DEE17C.848203CF@lucent.com> References: <591429.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Once i found a diagram of a sand blaster that you can build from an old propane tank. If I am lucky enough to find it I will post the site. Pedro ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ >Dave, > You were going down the right road. Why did you quit. I've >been traveling down that road for 30 years, and the end >isn't in site. I however, only have to finish the siding on >my new 5 car garage. > > Ken > >Dave Williams wrote: >> >> -> Sandblast the manifold first... which will cost you 10-20 >> -> bucks depending on the machine shop, if you don't have a >> >> For $50 or so you can buy an inexpensive siphon feed sandblaster, and >> then you'll have it for the next project. Of course, you'll need a >> compressor, but you probably wanted one anyway. Then a nice garage to >> keep the sandblaster and compressor in... hmm, might be better to just >> have someone else do it. >> >> ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== >> I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? >> my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? >> =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm >> > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 23:40:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08611 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:40:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08605 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:40:13 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id VAA08370 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:39:46 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903050439.VAA08370@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: How do AICs work? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:39:46 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <001c01be6653$d085c920$6c7889d0@soren> from "soren" at Mar 04, 1999 07:29:36 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu soren wrote: > > Dan H. wrote: > >It doesn't know that my AIC is injecting fuel as well, and it isn't > watching > >the O2 sensor to know that the mixture is going rich. So my WOT mixture is > >going to be way too rich and my stock injectors duty cycle is still going > >to max out at 5000 rpm assuming of course it'll rev that high from choking > >on all the fuel. > > >So why is this apparently not a problem? What am I missing? > > > Have the controller kick on under boost instead of WOT, say maybe at 6 > psi right before your factory injectors max out. Then just wick up the > boost until it is no longer slobbering rich. > > Soren Rounds But that doesn't do anything about preventing the stock injectors from maxing out. They'll still hit 100% duty cycle and stay there for the duration of max boost. I know realisticaly that's only going to be a few seconds, but isn't this extremely bad for them? I thought exceeding the 80% duty cycle very often or for very long burns them out in a hurry. Also, what about the ECM? What are the chances that it freaks out when the injectors hit 100%? Does it not care or will it assume something has failed and go to fail safe mode? I ask this because it happened last week. I had to slow way down for a car turning in front of me. After I got by, I nailed it but was in a pretty low gear. RPMs went to redline in a hurry and boost hit I think about 9 psi. It happened pretty fast and I wasn't watching carefully enough. Immediately after, my truck started coughing and sputtering, barely running. The engine light started flashing. I was paranoid I blew a head gasket or something. I pulled over and shut down. After a few minutes of checking under the hood and not finding anything obvious I tried to restart. It started and ran fine (so did my heart BTW). When I got home, I checked the codes and there were two of them, both indicating faulty injectors(s). I figured out it had gone into failsafe mode. I tested by pulling the MAF connector to force it into failsafe and sure enough, it coughed and sputtered and ran just like it had on the road. I know now that the injectors max out at 9 psi and 5K rpm and I'm sure I exceeded that. How likely is it that the ECM switched to failsafe because of this? I'm beginning to think I will have to intercept the MAF signal and alter it no matter how I do the extra fueling. Neither additional injectors or a rising rate FPR by themselves will prevent the stock injectors from hitting 100%. Even intercepting the signal to the injectors to prevent it from happening won't work because the ECM will still *think* they're at 100%. If I need to intercept and modify the MAF signal anyways, then I'd much rather swap to larger injectors than run the rising rate FPR or plumb in additional injectors. It's much cleaner I think, doesn't have any bad sides that I can see (so long as I don't go so big it won't idle) and it's much more stealthy. I'll have a much better chance of sliding this whole thing by the smog police if I don't have a huge regulator or extra fuel lines and injectors running everywhere. Any insight is appreciated. thanks --Dan From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 23:42:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08704 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:42:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08700 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:42:57 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id UAA70240; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:42:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 20:42:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990305001631.0074b088@mail.sunbeach.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Pedro Haynes wrote: > > Once i found a diagram of a sand blaster that you can build from an old > propane tank. If I am lucky enough to find it I will post the site. > A sandblast cabinet can be made from plywood, K3 board etc and will last a long time if you do not sandblast the cabinet directly. Sears used to sell a cheapo sandblaster that can be easily converted to use in the cabinet. These units came with steel nozzles, but ceramic were available from Sears for a reasonable price [this was a few years ago...] Cheap, but effective... Sand is pretty cheap by the sack. I usually used 20-30 for sheet metal, cast iron or whatever. Glass beads are a lot more money and often are a waste of time IMO. When the sand gets dirty, rounded off, etc it stops working. At the price of sand, you can afford to dump it. Keep the sand dry... From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 4 23:47:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA08965 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:47:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08958 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:47:45 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id VAA08505 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:47:41 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903050447.VAA08505@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:47:41 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <024801be6670$c6ec5560$23633acf@nacelp> from "Bruce Plecan" at Mar 04, 1999 01:56:56 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer > > Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 > (800) 543-4330 How much use is this? I don't know much about them other than the higher the frequency, the higher the cost. What's the minimum we should be looking for to do EFI type stuff or just general circuit building? Is this one good enough to be useful or will it rapidly show it's limitations? I've seen 20, 30, 60 and up to 100 Hz scopes. How much is really needed? --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 00:01:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09370 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:01:02 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09366 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:01:01 -0500 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-42.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.60]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id AAA16593 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:01:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000601be66c5$93c982c0$3c198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:03:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Houlton To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 11:56 PM Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope Please correct that to read 5Mhz I've been told 20Mhz is more than enough for automotive use, but I'm still getting up to speed Bruce >Bruce Plecan wrote: >> Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer >> Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 >> (800) 543-4330 >How much use is this? I don't know much about them other than the higher >the frequency, the higher the cost. What's the minimum we should be looking >for to do EFI type stuff or just general circuit building? Is this one >good enough to be useful or will it rapidly show it's limitations? I've >seen 20, 30, 60 and up to 100 Hz scopes. How much is really needed? >--Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 00:01:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09406 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:01:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09402 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:01:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA06647 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:01:30 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 23:01:29 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope In-Reply-To: <199903050447.VAA08505@user2.inficad.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Daniel Houlton wrote: > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer > > > > Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 > > (800) 543-4330 > > How much use is this? I don't know much about them other than the higher > the frequency, the higher the cost. What's the minimum we should be looking > for to do EFI type stuff or just general circuit building? Is this one > good enough to be useful or will it rapidly show it's limitations? I've > seen 20, 30, 60 and up to 100 Hz scopes. How much is really needed? > You mean Mhz scopes. From what I know, 1Mhz would be fine for all automotive work, that is so long as you don't mess with the internals of the computer, then you probably need 20Mhz-100Mhz+ depending on the clock rate of the computer you are dealing with. Most automotive inputs are pretty low frequency, in fact so low that .5Mhz may be enough for auto work. Roger From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 00:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09671 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:09:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scotty.nni.com (mail.djs.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09666 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:09:25 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.9.167]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:06:38 -0500 Message-ID: <36DF908F.15F3@nni.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 00:06:39 -0800 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Dwell control vs timing control References: <039d01be6696$4510a980$23633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu My understanding of GM's dwell control is that it is in the distributor. The module measures the coil drive current, once the current reaches a certain level, the drive is reduced to maintain that level. It would be difficult for the ECM to control the max current level through the coil. The 'ole Kettering systems used a ballest resistor to limit the max current. Let's see, Motorola has something on this, hang on a minute... Weeelll, longer than a minute, but here it is: "High Energy Ignition Circuits": MC3334P/MCC3334/MCCF3334, in the Linear and Interface Circuits databook. Typically peaks at 5.5Amps and holds there until coil fires. For some reason, I thought that this is the chip GM uses in their HEI modules. (This is kinda like the peak & hold injector drivers, except that the current is held at max, not ramped down at hold). Even the off state duration is controlled to allow full coil discharge. HTH BobR P.S. Further reading, just before sending this, states (in the databook), that this device is designed to serve aftermarket Delco five terminal ignition applications... Hmmm, does make you wonder what GM is really doing in the seven terminal distributors. (I can see some bench work to get the scoop on this one). >gm specific >I been thinking way to much on this, but, I'll stick my head out again, and >say >what your reading in the prom is timing corrections, and the stuff for being >a cylinder late in the computations. > If the dwell controll, was in the prom, then disconnecting the distributor >from >the ecm would stop the engine from running. So the dwell control is in the >module. > So every thing in the prom would look the same from Dissy to DIS. Just >a matter of when the timing starts, as set by est signal. >Thoughts anyone?. >Bruce -- From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 00:13:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA09830 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:13:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09818 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:13:41 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id WAA09050 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:13:30 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903050513.WAA09050@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Voltage controller? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu (EFI ) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:13:29 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi. Me again. Sorry, but I've got more questions. For my turbo, I don't yet have an intercooler and don't know when I will. In the meantime, I've planned on building a water injection system using basically a boost pressurized tank and a couple pumps to provide a pressure differential to inject water after the turbo. Instead though, it's very likely that I'll be getting an ERL AquaMist from a friend to try out. This is the $500 job I think. Uses a high pressure magnetic/diaphram pump or something. I won't be getting the controller they sell for it, just the basic system. I'm pretty sure I read on their page that the pump pressure is controlled by a 0 - 12V signal. It could be it's just driven by 0 - 12V, but I thought it was a seperate signal. Power is through a seperate 12V supply. Maybe not though. This is how their controller controlls it. How would I produce this signal from a MAP sensor? Say I get a 2 Bar sensor. These are linear from 0 - 5V representing vacuum - ~15 psi (over ambient) right? Now if the MAP sensor put out 0 - 12V instead and the pump took a 0 - 5V signal, I could just use a pot and direct connect the sensor to the pump. I need to go the other way though. I need to step up the 0-5V MAP signal to a 0 - 12V signal for the pump. Any suggestions how to do it? What about if instead of a 0 - 12V signal I need a 0 - 12V power (presumably much higher amps than the MAP can supply) source? What I need is something like a 30 amp relay that can supply a variable voltage instead of full voltage or none. I'm sure something like this exists, but I'm (obviously) not an EE so I don't know what to look for. Oooh! What about an "electronic" pot? Something that can control resistance from a voltage signal instead of physically turning a dial? I could then provide full, high amp voltage to the pump through a relay and run it through this "electronic" pot. The pot would adjust the resistance according to the MAP output. Map signal goes up signalling pot resistance to go down and the pump gets more voltage resulting in higher water pressure. A seperate Hobbs switch could control the relay to arm the system at whatever boost pressure I want. Is this totally off the wall or is it doable? thanks --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 01:26:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA11675 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:26:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA11670 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:26:19 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp108.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.108]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA13429 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:21:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <006301be66d0$ed542ce0$6c7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: How do AICs work? Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:25:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >If I need to intercept and modify the MAF signal anyways, then I'd much >rather swap to larger injectors than run the rising rate FPR or plumb in >additional injectors. It's much cleaner I think, doesn't have any bad >sides that I can see (so long as I don't go so big it won't idle) and >it's much more stealthy. I'll have a much better chance of sliding this >whole thing by the smog police if I don't have a huge regulator or extra >fuel lines and injectors running everywhere. > >Any insight is appreciated. I definitely agree that larger injectors are the way to go depending on your budget. The lack of extra plumbing is definitely a plus. However, if the ECM is reacting to the extra boost and going to 100% duty cycle on the stock injectors but cannot react to the change in fuel mixture caused by an additional injector (because it is in open loop), how could it react to the change in fuel mixture caused by the larger injectors when the ECM commanded 100% d.c.(again in open-loop)? It appears to me as if they would be similar in actual function. Soren Rounds From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 01:35:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA11799 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:35:18 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA11795 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:35:15 -0500 Received: from computer (ts028d34.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.196.142]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA11854 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:35:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: More bounces... Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:35:45 -0800 Message-ID: <000701be66d2$6666c8d0$8ec4adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: <008201be66cf$f2fbbc40$73079ad8@wsherwin> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Walter Sherwin Sent: Thursday, March 04, 1999 10:18 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: More bounces... Okay, what am I missing here? Every time I send a message to "Majordomo....." it kicks it back. I've tried various combinations, but to no avail. Exactly what syntax should I use for the title, and message body? Thanks; Walt. -----Original Message----- From: Orin Eman To: DIY EFI List ; EFI332 Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 12:05 AM Subject: More bounces... >Got to keep that s*bscribe word out of the first few lines... > >> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:48:29 +0000 >> From: steve ravet >> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) >> X-Accept-Language: en >> MIME-Version: 1.0 >> To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , >> "efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" >> Subject: GM ECM list is up and running >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> I've gotten a few questions about the GM ECM list. It is UP and RUNNING >> right now. To subscribe, send an email to > >> majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> In the body, put > >> subcribe gmecm > > >> Simple as that! > > > >> -- >> Steve Ravet >> ARM, INC >> steve.ravet@arm.com >> www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 01:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA11889 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:39:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA11876 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 01:39:10 -0500 Received: from computer (ts028d34.lap-ca.concentric.net [206.173.196.142]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA13817 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:39:06 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: ALDL, again Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 22:39:41 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01be66d2$f2865dd0$8ec4adce@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check out http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/9938/ Ward -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of ECMnut@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 7:44 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ALDL, again Allow me; GMC Syclone ECM, 1227749, 8192 baud, BC code is AYBM-4052 I have the same . HTH Mike V > Most likely you are unaware that GM has around a hundred different diag data > standards, There are four different data xmission standards, including OBD > II. perhaps is you stated your needs ..... ECM P/N, and or broadcast code > ... > Ward > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Barry > Tisdale > Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 7:23 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: ALDL, again > > > Still working on the ALDL / PC thing. I've gotten *several* copies of the > GM paper on the diagnostic link; all are probably from the same source, way > back when, as they all contain the same typos and inaccuracies. > > Has anyone actually 'decoded' the actual data, i.e., converted the raw data > into meaningful information? Some of the calcs given in the GM paper are > just plain wrong. Lots of data acronyms have no references elsewhere in the > paper; I can only guess @ what's intended. Some are obvious, many are > cryptic. > > Anybody gone through this? I'd like to help / collaborate w/ anyone on > this; hardware to get the data from ALDL to COM port is easy, works well. > Software to capture & log the data doesn't require a genius (after all, I > did it in QuickBasic). Trouble is, "what do it all mean..."? > > Any help *very* gladly accepted - thanks - Barry > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 02:24:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA12671 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:24:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailhost1.attcanada.net (mailhost1.attcanada.net [206.191.82.42]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA12667 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:24:28 -0500 Received: from d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net ([142.194.123.192]) by mailhost1.attcanada.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990305072044.EDW25720@d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:20:44 +0000 Received: by d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BE669F.01E87F80@d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:27:53 -0700 Message-ID: <01BE669F.01E87F80@d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> From: Marc Piccioni To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: aluminum intake cosmetics Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:34:54 -0700 Encoding: 28 TEXT, 51 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu try getting the manifold clear anodized, the final appearance looks like magnesium - a light gray. ---------- From: James Weiler[SMTP:james@brc.ubc.ca] Sent: March 3, 1999 4:00 PM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: aluminum intake cosmetics Sorry about the non-EFI question but it's sort of related. I need some advice on how to best preserve the good looks of a freshly glass beaded intake manifold. Alot of people are saying stay away from clear coat as it will chip and flake off, supposedly it doesn't stick well to aluminum. (?) I've also been told about powder coating but was wondering if there were any pros or cons to that too? Should I just leave it alone? Polishing would be ideal but I refuse to spend a couple $100 over cosmetics (spend a whole day doing it myself is ok however). As usual any and all advice is much appreciated. cheers, jw P.S. If anybody can give me any tips on how to polish in the tight areas of an intake then I might try my hand at it. I assume I need I die grinder (will a dremmel drill do?) but don't know what I need for buffing pads or where to get them. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C4'`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!@```!M<&EC8VEO;FE M871T8V%N861A+FYE= `#``805E07> ,`!Q!U`P``'@`($ $```!E````5%)9 M1T545$E.1U1(14U!3DE&3TQ$0TQ%05)!3D]$25I%1"Q42$5&24Y!3$%04$5! M4D%.0T5,3T]+4TQ)2T5-04=.15-)54TM04Q)1TA41U)!62TM+2TM+2TM+2U& M4D]-.DI!30`````"`0D0`0```) $``",! ``4P<``$Q:1G4]6R"&_P`*`0\" M%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K @F +!TS9@N !T >8&QP2X*A2,*BR# ,3@P`M%I+7@Q-#0-\ S0)(,+63&N M-@J@`V 3T&,%0"TFIZ\*AR5;## F)D8#83HGKB,F)@R"($IA!X)790,#$ 20 M6U--5% Z`FHK)B+0!C85TG3RA=!F W`C ICRJ;30K $7 @,XD> M\#$Y,E @-#HD()@@4$TMGRA=5&\OWY,JFQZ@>5\-P&E -T$)&N R+@GP9RYO M:&AI;RT3P&$3T#?@9.YU,P\NKBT@:B9A-2\JF_\'0"& "X A@0N `9 @X06@ M9G,'@!SP8W,BKR.S,]XV)2<;U28F"H53!; 0:&P@WT3P(G =`CB!0J%W3O$#4K\>!06@.* >8 0@1+ @`_#\;&P*A1%P!2 > M81WP&G'+(.%%4&8>\'-U'\ ^<"<)@$JQ4*%D;P>0;B?S!4!$$6-K4,!%D ,@ M2!$C/69-`2@_*0J%22?_2/$'0$4`2#$)\$@!'>%"Q/U2\'<$@5 3'0)$@"H4`D/M)`4@@$AT 6@4M#M3?$D&L RP&]( M\% "/H7;5:!BUG='T$WQ9$[Q4Z#]6<-T3!83L$6016 $`$5 JU1@1]%E9"$I M(I9!!"#]7I!U'X);45'2!T ?D4;CN6>";74QX1^Q%Z!C!S O1<)1%PG@$: L M"H5J=_$^_% N4T7Q2B%;4 ;@SF0W4O!@ M`CWA_QTS'/ B$DXA2P!'-FZB/>;_'4$#H$/ /9 B$AR"9R!'P/]IPT2230%# MP$L!(8 =8$85OT/ 'J!')@G "X!8(BA0TO4AP607H&T'@ ,@>-!X Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA12683 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:24:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailhost1.attcanada.net (mailhost1.attcanada.net [206.191.82.42]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA12674 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 02:24:35 -0500 Received: from d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net ([142.194.123.192]) by mailhost1.attcanada.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990305072052.EDZ25720@d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:20:52 +0000 Received: by d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BE669F.0629F9C0@d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net>; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:28:00 -0700 Message-ID: <01BE669F.0629F9C0@d192-cg101h2-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> From: Marc Piccioni To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Timing Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 00:03:17 -0700 Encoding: 19 TEXT, 42 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Get a book titled basic cams and exhaust at any speed shop and read the procedure to find TDC, then fabricate a replacement point to indicate TDC and install a timing tape on the OD of the balancer. ---------- From: Carmine Nicoletta[SMTP:carmine@ibmoto.com] Sent: March 4, 1999 8:34 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Timing Sorry if this isn't diy_efi related, but I have a question regarding timing on a 5.0L HO 84 T/A. The timing tab on the timing cover is gone (replaced it with a new one due to a leaky seal). How do I set the correct timing without a tab indicator? Will access to diacom help? Thanks Carmine begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@`'`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D# $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\,`0```!@```!M<&EC M8VEO;FE 871T8V%N861A+FYE= `#``80<-O4B@,`!Q#]`0``'@`($ $```!E M````1T5404)/3TM4251,141"05-)0T-!35-!3D1%6$A!55-4051!3EE34$5% M1%-(3U!!3D1214%$5$A%4%)/0T5$55)%5$]&24Y$5$1#+%1(14Y&04)224-! M5$5!4D503$%#14U%3@`````"`0D0`0````D#```%`P``+@4``$Q:1G4.X___ M_P`*`0\"%0*H!>L"@P!0`O()`@!C: K !& =1/ '+ 2!S< G@'8!S:"QO`#'36$!I8@1@(: N!:!M?ETMGRZM!F " M,"_?,.M-DPK $7 @-")0,3DY$* @.#HS-!2P331?.2ZM5&\VGS#K)/!Y7YD- MP&E /@$:X#(N"?" 9RYO:&EO+28!'Q/0/J A4#G/-6YU8FI_++$[[S#K!V$F ML2C_*@,SWC8K=QO5-=<%L'(?8 :0QR"Q! `DP'-N)P5 /<67(&$+8!/09")0 M8G4%0-1)(!& =B-"<0I0$\#W/Q #H!>@9PL11%@FA2=!`1S -2XP3"!(3^,Y M0#F 5"]!*- B$"#1_R:',9 G12:%!:!*4 7 ! #M"H5G`B @X"@CA27!!4#_ M`_ @P!RQ,@`'X%#2(5 A@S, Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA15027 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:34:48 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from ristoreipas.microdata.fi (ristoreipas.microdata.fi [194.100.116.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA15022 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:34:36 -0500 Received: from nts1.microdata.fi (nts1.microdata.fi [193.64.45.11]) by ristoreipas.microdata.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA02142 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:34:52 +0200 (EET) Received: by nts1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:44:52 +0200 Message-ID: <6FA58B03A836D111977F0060B068FAFD0221D5AB@nts1> From: Niinikoski Juha To: "'DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: 4L80E / ALDL Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:44:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi I am new on the list and don't know if this is right place to start 4L80E TCM thread ? I have 97 N/A diesel Hummer with 4L80E electronic transmission. Some time ago I decided to try to build a display unit with what you can watch few most critical transmission parameters like temperature TCC slippage and possible clutch slippage. So far I have managed to hack ALDL interface and protocol. Of course this happened by the hard way. First I taught that Hummer 97 Implementation where OBD-II because of OBD-II like connector but it is ALDL 8192. I have build couple of display prototypes. One with Motorola HC12 CPU and 4x40 LCD display.HC12 contains also 8-channell A/D converter. I have plan to include some other measurements too. Second one is really cheap build with Microchip PIC16F84 "washing machine" processor and 2x20 LCD. If anybody is interested I can provide more information about my projects. Where I need help. 1. I am now stuck with decoding parameters what TCM provides. I have found most easy / evident ones like RPMs, temperature, selector switches etc. Most of the response data is still unknown for me. Do anyone have documents or more information about 4L80E ALDL commands / responses ? 2. What is the right way to start communication with TCM. I have figured out that read parameters command is F5 57 01 00 B3 but you need to give command twice first time. After ALDL bus have "woken up" you need only one command to get response. If you do not issue new commands within about one second bus goes to sleep mode again. Are there some sort of wake up procedure or is this (sending first command two times) right way to do it ? Juha Niinikoski Espoo Finland 97 N/A Diesel Hummer From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 08:16:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA15468 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:16:44 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15464 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:16:44 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-78.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.78]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA18472 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:16:42 GMT Message-ID: <36DFD97D.3F24@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:18:05 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu SFI at 6000RPM is 30CPS, ganged injectors (double fire) is 60CPS. That's .06 Khz. Ford MAPs run something around 300Hz. I'd say a 5mhz should be lots. The handhelds are nice, but like a scope-meter the display is puny. Better to find one of the older diagnostic scopes (can't remember the make, but I used to have one) that ran off the car battery for in-shop use. There were several occaisions where it rode in the passenger's seat with me in the back and the apprentice driving so I could find out what was going on on the road. From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 08:27:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA15593 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:27:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out2.ibm.net (out2.ibm.net [165.87.194.229]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA15589 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:27:33 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-187.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.187]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA150900 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:27:32 GMT Message-ID: <36DFDB33.56D1@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:28:56 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Voltage controller? References: <199903050513.WAA09050@user2.inficad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Use a voltage to grequency conversion, then have the frequency output drive a 555 oneshot. By tuning both the frequency output and the pulse width you pwm control the pump. I'm no engineer either, but both circuits are bretty simple. Could likely use 555 for both stages, or even run one as a monostable with the MAP connected to the control terminal - would give you roughly 2:1 ratio range? From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 08:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA15653 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:29:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu (peaches.ph.utexas.edu [128.83.179.26]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA15649 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:29:45 -0500 From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu Received: from m198214180161.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA68394; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:32:58 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990305072739.009e2a80@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 07:27:39 -0600 To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: EEC Report Cc: Andrew March , Auburn Performance Equipment , Eric Goehl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu As the list ole-timers know, I was a member of this list for a long time ..... but, I started a list dedicated specifically to the Ford EEC-IV and "herding" the list has monopolized my "spare" time. I have checked back in to report that we've been quite successful (perhaps this has already been reported here ??? don't know). The current status: . there is now source code for many eecs -- and some of those have been partially disassembled . the engine control data parameters have (mostly) been identified and found in memory . there are now at least three products available that will allow you to take advantage of your EEC (here they are, in the order of their "release" / introduction to the EEC list): 1 - Andy's EECSUCKA PCB board allows reading the memory from any eec-iv (cost, about $25 for bare PCB .... group buy now in progress, if you're interested) .... Andrew March http://www.icenet.com.au/~amarch/eec.htm 2 - Matt Happy at Auburn Performance Equipment has introduced his product called the "SpeedBrain", which replaces the '87-'95 (I'm not certain of the exact years) Mustang MAF EFI. This is what most folks are converting to when they do mods -- but, it leaves out those who have the E4OD tranny. Auburn Performance Equipment http://www.tiac.net/users/goape/sb.htm 3 - Eric Goehl has just completed an EEC "adaptor board". This is what the elusive "calibrator" was to have been. It plugs into your existing EEC computer (err, cornfuzer on the BB list ;-) ...... and allows you to examine the memory and to change any and all control parameters -- or to even substitute a totally new / different program if you're clever enough ! .... the beauty of this is it allows you to control _ANY_ eec-iv on any vehicle (by saying eec-iv, I've excluded eec-v which, I think, is on '96 and later trucks). The disadvantage to Eric's unit is the software exists but is not as good as we or Eric want it to be, so it is still being worked on .... expect some really cool stuff once the guys on the eec list get tired of arguing about which "platform" to use ;-) http://www.eec-tuner.com/ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ cost of these units is (approximation only here .... I'm working with a 'faded' cranial cornfuzer 1 - eecsucka .... about $25 ..... but, it's purchase is complicated by Andy being down under and there's a problem with converting to Aussie funny-money ;-) 2 - SB costs about $700. 3 - eec tuner from Eric is about $300 (once again, very reasonable for what you get -- esp considering what it'd cost you to do it yourself). Finally, if anyone is interested in the technical side of the EEC, consider joining the EEC list ..... and there is information posted at various www and ftp sites. Write me for info. Tom Cloud From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 08:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA16210 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:55:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA16206 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:55:01 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-167-90.pq.ca.ibm.net [129.37.167.90]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA18248 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:54:59 GMT Message-ID: <36DFE287.2EA5@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 08:56:23 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Voltage controller? References: <199903050513.WAA09050@user2.inficad.com> <36DFDB33.56D1@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu U> se a voltage to grequency conversion, then have the frequency output > drive a 555 oneshot. By tuning both the frequency output and the pulse > width you pwm control the pump. > I'm no engineer either, but both circuits are bretty simple. Could > likely use 555 for both stages, or even run one as a monostable with the > MAP connected to the control terminal - would give you roughly 2:1 ratio > range? > Just thought of a possibly simpler method. Use a FORD MAP, which is a variable frequency output, and run the one-shot off of it. From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 09:29:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA16990 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:29:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from home2.stratos.net (home2.stratos.net [209.117.223.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16985 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:29:04 -0500 Received: from jimyeagley [209.117.221.98] by home2.stratos.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id AA2EDAA0224; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:29:02 EST Message-ID: <01bc01be6709$77e956e0$208556cf@jimyeagley.stratos.net> From: "Jim Yeagley" To: Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:09:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu About the sandblasters: I seem to remember a while back buying a blaster for around $25 or $30 from an auto body supply house. It looked like the head of a paint gun, without the cup, and had replaceable ceramic venturis. The tube coming out of the bottom where the cup would normally be simply had a hose attached, the other end had another tube that could be shoved into the top of a bag of sand. Attach air at the base of the handle and you're done. The cabinet mentioned before would be perfect to use with this gun, with some cheapo lexan panel to view through. The whole thing could probably be built for less than $60. But didn't the original post state that the intake was already blasted? If you want to powdercoat it, get the $99 kit from eastwood. I think it's eastwood.com, but you can surely get there from myclassiccar.com. You need around 10 psi air and a cheapo oven, and pretty soon you'll be coating all kinds of parts for you and your buddies, and paying for the setup in no time. Anything you can fit into an oven can be done, including brackets, alternator bodies, exhaust manifolds, mufflers, etc. Like someone else already said, he buys the tools instead of paying the labor, and I'd wager HPC would be charging more than $100 to coat your intake. Jim Yeagley 1996 Dodge Indy Ram See it and many others at: www.indyram.org 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) webmaster@indyram.org jimyeagley@stratos.net From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 09:52:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA17458 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:52:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA17453 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:52:08 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id HAA15240 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:52:06 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903051452.HAA15240@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: How do AICs work? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:52:06 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <006301be66d0$ed542ce0$6c7889d0@soren> from "soren" at Mar 04, 1999 10:25:10 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu soren wrote: > > >If I need to intercept and modify the MAF signal anyways, then I'd much > >rather swap to larger injectors than run the rising rate FPR or plumb in > >additional injectors. It's much cleaner I think, doesn't have any bad > >sides that I can see (so long as I don't go so big it won't idle) and > >it's much more stealthy. I'll have a much better chance of sliding this > >whole thing by the smog police if I don't have a huge regulator or extra > >fuel lines and injectors running everywhere. > > > >Any insight is appreciated. > > > I definitely agree that larger injectors are the way to go depending on > your budget. The lack of extra plumbing is definitely a plus. However, if > the ECM is reacting to the extra boost and going to 100% duty cycle on the > stock injectors but cannot react to the change in fuel mixture caused by an > additional injector (because it is in open loop), how could it react to the > change in fuel mixture caused by the larger injectors when the ECM commanded > 100% d.c.(again in open-loop)? It appears to me as if they would be similar > in actual function. > > Soren Rounds Regardless of how the extra fuel is added, the idea is to keep the ECM from commanding 100% d.c. by intercepting the MAF signal, changing (reducing) it, and then passing it on to the ECM. How much to reduce it is the tricky part as the MAF output is not linear to the airflow through it. In the case of the addition injector or higher fuel pressure, I'd have to figure houw much to reduce the MAF signal based on how much extra fuel the higher pressure or extra injectors will dump. i.e. if the extra injectors are dumping 30% of the total fuel, the MAF signal to the ECM would have to be reduced enough such that the ECM injects 30% less fuel. With larger injectors that flow say 50% more fuel than stock, the MAF signal would need to be reduced enough so that the ECM would inject only 66% of the fuel it would of from the un-modified signal. When it's in open-loop WOT, it reads the MAF directly and squirts an appropriate amount of fuel. The extra fuel from having larger injectors is offset by a shorter pulsewidth (and therefore duty cycle) commanded by the ECM from seeing a lower signal from the MAF. --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 10:08:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA17960 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:08:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scotty.nni.com (mail.djs.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17955 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:08:41 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.9.85]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:05:54 -0500 Message-ID: <36E01D0E.51F3@nni.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:06:06 -0800 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Voltage controller? References: <199903050513.WAA09050@user2.inficad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Dan, If you wanted to convert the 5v MAP to a 12v signal, relative, use an op-amp. Just use an amp with a gain of 2.4 (12 / 5). Use this in the non-inverting configuration. The only problem with this is head-room, most amps won't go to the plus rail. A better approach might be PWM. Look in the 'incoming' directory for the files: PWM2.gif and PWM2.txt (not sure of the exact case). These are the circuit diagram and writeup for a PWM controller that can be used with any permanent magnet DC motor. This circuit can be driven from the MAP with only an Op-amp buffer at the front end. For more op-amp stuff (ideas), get ahold of a National Semi Linear databook, or hit their web site for app notes. They have a ton of stuff on practical uses of op-amps. (AN-20 & AN-31 are good ones). BobR. P.S. The files FprErr.gif & .txt also have some novel uses of op-amps. Daniel Houlton wrote: > > Hi. Me again. Sorry, but I've got more questions. For my turbo, I don't > yet have an intercooler and don't know when I will. In the meantime, I've > planned on building a water injection system using basically a boost > pressurized tank and a couple pumps to provide a pressure differential to > inject water after the turbo. > > Instead though, it's very likely that I'll be getting an ERL AquaMist from > a friend to try out. This is the $500 job I think. Uses a high pressure > magnetic/diaphram pump or something. I won't be getting the controller > they sell for it, just the basic system. > > I'm pretty sure I read on their page that the pump pressure is controlled > by a 0 - 12V signal. It could be it's just driven by 0 - 12V, but I > thought it was a seperate signal. Power is through a seperate 12V > supply. Maybe not though. This is how their controller controlls it. > How would I produce this signal from a MAP sensor? > > Say I get a 2 Bar sensor. These are linear from 0 - 5V representing > vacuum - ~15 psi (over ambient) right? Now if the MAP sensor put out 0 - 12V > instead and the pump took a 0 - 5V signal, I could just use a pot and > direct connect the sensor to the pump. I need to go the other way though. > I need to step up the 0-5V MAP signal to a 0 - 12V signal for the pump. > > Any suggestions how to do it? What about if instead of a 0 - 12V signal > I need a 0 - 12V power (presumably much higher amps than the MAP can > supply) source? What I need is something like a 30 amp relay that can > supply a variable voltage instead of full voltage or none. I'm sure > something like this exists, but I'm (obviously) not an EE so I don't know > what to look for. > > Oooh! What about an "electronic" pot? Something that can control > resistance from a voltage signal instead of physically turning a dial? I > could then provide full, high amp voltage to the pump through a relay and > run it through this "electronic" pot. The pot would adjust the resistance > according to the MAP output. Map signal goes up signalling pot resistance > to go down and the pump gets more voltage resulting in higher water > pressure. > > A seperate Hobbs switch could control the relay to arm the system at > whatever boost pressure I want. Is this totally off the wall or is it > doable? > > thanks > --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 10:12:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18117 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:12:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com [157.254.234.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18113 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:12:07 -0500 Received: from smtprelay.tce.com (smtprelay.indy.tce.com [157.254.96.114]) by dmzraw1.extranet.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA13295 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:09:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from tceexch2.INDY.TCE.COM ([157.254.93.10]) by smtprelay.tce.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17256 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:10:39 -0500 (EST) Received: by TCEEXCH2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:09:47 -0500 Message-ID: <5D6B33A38300D211AC9B00609748B22601DE849C@tceis3.indy.tce.com> From: Jemison Richard To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: aluminum intake cosmetics Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:09:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim, FWIW, I have one of these and it worked but not all that great. And I had a big compressor pushing it. I got my job done but really had to work to get it - took forever. Haven't touched it since. My son has it if he hasn't pitched it! rick > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Yeagley [SMTP:jimyeagley@stratos.net] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 8:10 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics > > About the sandblasters: > > I seem to remember a while back buying a blaster for around $25 or $30 > from > an auto body supply house. It looked like the head of a paint gun, > without > the cup, and had replaceable ceramic venturis. The tube coming out of the > bottom where the cup would normally be simply had a hose attached, the > other > end had another tube that could be shoved into the top of a bag of sand. > Attach air at the base of the handle and you're done. The cabinet > mentioned > before would be perfect to use with this gun, with some cheapo lexan panel > to view through. The whole thing could probably be built for less than > $60. > Jim Yeagley > 1996 Dodge Indy Ram > See it and many others at: www.indyram.org > 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) > webmaster@indyram.org > jimyeagley@stratos.net > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 10:13:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18191 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:13:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18187 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:13:38 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.57]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA00437 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:13:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00e301be671b$2cd6b8c0$39633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: How do AICs work? Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:16:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Houlton To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 10:04 AM Subject: Re: How do AICs work? While it's common practice not to exceed 85%, if your oem calibration does, what makes you believe that for that application 100% is wrong?. You mention smog police, and steathy, ya really think they'll miss the turbo?. Did you ever figure out for sure if the MAF is voltage or freq?. Bruce >soren wrote: >> >> >If I need to intercept and modify the MAF signal anyways, then I'd much >> >rather swap to larger injectors than run the rising rate FPR or plumb in >> >additional injectors. It's much cleaner I think, doesn't have any bad >> >sides that I can see (so long as I don't go so big it won't idle) and >> >it's much more stealthy. I'll have a much better chance of sliding this >> >whole thing by the smog police if I don't have a huge regulator or extra >> >fuel lines and injectors running everywhere. >> > >> >Any insight is appreciated. >> >> >> I definitely agree that larger injectors are the way to go depending on >> your budget. The lack of extra plumbing is definitely a plus. However, if >> the ECM is reacting to the extra boost and going to 100% duty cycle on the >> stock injectors but cannot react to the change in fuel mixture caused by an >> additional injector (because it is in open loop), how could it react to the >> change in fuel mixture caused by the larger injectors when the ECM commanded >> 100% d.c.(again in open-loop)? It appears to me as if they would be similar >> in actual function. >> >> Soren Rounds > > >Regardless of how the extra fuel is added, the idea is to keep the ECM from >commanding 100% d.c. by intercepting the MAF signal, changing (reducing) it, >and then passing it on to the ECM. How much to reduce it is the tricky part >as the MAF output is not linear to the airflow through it. > >In the case of the addition injector or higher fuel pressure, I'd have to >figure houw much to reduce the MAF signal based on how much extra fuel the >higher pressure or extra injectors will dump. i.e. if the extra injectors are >dumping 30% of the total fuel, the MAF signal to the ECM would have to be >reduced enough such that the ECM injects 30% less fuel. > >With larger injectors that flow say 50% more fuel than stock, the MAF signal >would need to be reduced enough so that the ECM would inject only 66% of the >fuel it would of from the un-modified signal. > >When it's in open-loop WOT, it reads the MAF directly and squirts an appropriate >amount of fuel. The extra fuel from having larger injectors is offset by a >shorter pulsewidth (and therefore duty cycle) commanded by the ECM from seeing >a lower signal from the MAF. > > >--Dan > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 10:32:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18695 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:32:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu (peaches.ph.utexas.edu [128.83.179.26]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18690 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:32:25 -0500 From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu Received: from m198214180161.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA68594; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:35:41 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990305092513.0085ea30@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 09:25:13 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope In-Reply-To: <36DFD97D.3F24@ibm.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:18 AM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote: >SFI at 6000RPM is 30CPS, ganged injectors (double fire) is 60CPS. That's anyone looking for scopes ?? I have two -- one an HP (don't have model or BW, but suspect it's about 20 MHz) and the other, a Phillips PM-3055 with 60 MHz BW. Both are benchtop scopes -- not handheld. Also have some other test equipment and a Weller WTCP soldering iron in good condition, if anyone's interested. Tom Cloud From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 10:32:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18713 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:32:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18709; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:32:40 -0500 From: DAVE_HEMPSTEAD@HP-Andover-om3.om.hp.com Received: from andom1.an.hp.com (andom1.an.hp.com [15.4.128.104]) by palrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id HAA21520; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 07:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost) by andom1.an.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.1/8.7.3 TIS 5.0 Openmail) id KAA21970; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:32:37 -0500 (EST) X-OpenMail-Hops: 1 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:32:31 -0500 Message-Id: Subject: ALDL +ECM document MIME-Version: 1.0 TO: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="cc:Mail" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="cc:Mail" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, A month or so ago, someone posted a document on a GM ECM from either the late 80's (88-89) or early 90's describing how that software worked, and a bunch of the ALDL commands. It gave a very nice description of some of the filtering done on the signals, and how some of the engine settings were calculated. Unfortunately, I didn't keep an electronic copy, and have been asked for a copy of it. Can anyone re-point me to this document??? THanks, Dave Hempstead From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 10:38:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18905 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:38:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.arl.arizona.edu (mail.arl.Arizona.EDU [128.196.108.45]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18900 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:38:23 -0500 Received: from localhost (tyuhas@localhost) by mail.arl.arizona.edu (8.9.2/8.9.0.Beta5) with ESMTP id IAA12649 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:42:39 -0700 (MST) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:42:38 -0700 (MST) From: Terrill Yuhas To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: MPFI and SFI In-Reply-To: <038d01be6694$19450820$23633acf@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Terrill Yuhas > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 11:20 AM > Subject: MPFI and SFI > > Your terms are so general that I'm lost at what you mean. Do you want to > change ecms, or > cars?. If ecms what do you have?. > Bruce > Sorry about that. I found a nice 3400 V6 in a minivan. The ECM had already been pirated. I wondered if the 1227730 that I currently have could still run the 3400 even though it is SFI and my injection system is currently set up as batch fire. Terrill From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 10:41:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA18989 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:41:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from cbgw2.lucent.com (cbgw2.lucent.com [207.24.196.52]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA18985 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:41:29 -0500 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com by cbig2.firewall.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-L sol2) id KAA28367; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:41:37 -0500 Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id KAA16867; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:40:57 -0500 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id KAA16862; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: <36DFFB7F.789EB313@lucent.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:42:55 -0500 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics (Sand Blasting) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Let me second Jim's comment. Keep the sand Dry! I had a lot of problems with my pressurized sandblaster clogging. It was caused by moisture in the compressed air. I had a water trap on the input to the sandblaster, but it didn't work in the humid northeast summers. I moved the compressor to my basement, and put 30 feet of copper tubing looped through my Basement (usually 10 degrees cooler than the outside temp). My water seperator really started to fill up, and my sandblaster stopped clogging. Cooling the air really helped seperate the water, and gave me dryer air. Ken Jim Davies wrote: > > On Fri, 5 Mar 1999, Pedro Haynes wrote: > > > > > Once i found a diagram of a sand blaster that you can build from an old > > propane tank. If I am lucky enough to find it I will post the site. > > > A sandblast cabinet can be made from plywood, K3 board etc and will last a > long time if you do not sandblast the cabinet directly. Sears used to sell > a cheapo sandblaster that can be easily converted to use in the cabinet. > These units came with steel nozzles, but ceramic were available from Sears > for a reasonable price [this was a few years ago...] Cheap, but > effective... Sand is pretty cheap by the sack. I usually used 20-30 for > sheet metal, cast iron or whatever. Glass beads are a lot more money and > often are a waste of time IMO. When the sand gets dirty, rounded off, etc > it stops working. At the price of sand, you can afford to dump it. Keep > the sand dry... From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 11:10:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA19988 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:10:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA19980 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:10:11 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id jVTUa23206 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:09:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:09:27 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: ALDL +ECM document Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 3/5/99 10:35:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, DAVE_HEMPSTEAD@HP-Andover-om3.om.hp.com writes: > Hi, > A month or so ago, someone posted a document on a GM ECM from either the > late > 80's (88-89) or early 90's describing how that software worked, and a bunch > of > the ALDL commands. It gave a very nice description of some of the filtering > > done on the signals, and how some of the engine settings were calculated. > Unfortunately, I didn't keep an electronic copy, and have been asked for a > copy > of it. Can anyone re-point me to this document??? > http://members.home.com/syclone/Turbo_P4_Doc.pdf Assuming the link still works. From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 11:19:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20191 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:19:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20187 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:19:05 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp89.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.89]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA02870 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:14:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <005001be6723$bcafb2a0$597889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: How do AICs work? Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:17:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >While it's common practice not to exceed 85%, if your oem calibration does, >what makes you believe that for that application 100% is wrong?. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that apparently the injectors on my turbo Impulse run at 98% duty cycle under boost in stock trim (Hitachi fuel injection, 8 psi boost). That figure is from some literature from Isuzu; tested levels appear as 100% on my crappy multimeter duty cycle setting. I've never had an injector lock up on me. Soren Rounds From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 11:23:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20292 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:23:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from webserver (207-172-226-139.s12.as2.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.139]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20285 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:23:31 -0500 Resent-From: frederic.breitwieser@xephic.dynip.com Received: from xephic.dynip.com (Administrators@localhost) by webserver (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00280; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 11:23:22 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 11:23:22 -0500 (Eastern Daylight Time) Resent-Message-Id: <199903051623.LAA00280@webserver> Message-ID: <36E003D5.4A90CCCA@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 16:18:29 +0000 From: Frederic Breitwieser X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu Subject: Re: EEC Report References: <3.0.5.32.19990305072739.009e2a80@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Finally, if anyone is interested in the technical side of the EEC, > consider joining the EEC list ..... and there is information posted > at various www and ftp sites. Write me for info. Hey Tom, Thanks for posting the links and the write up... just bookmarked all of them. I recently aquired on the cheap a nearly complete EFI system out of an 1988 Grand Marquis that I was able to start and run at various RPMs before the battery died that I have brought into the car (junk car didn't have an alternator). Anyway, the ecm says: E8SF-AE1A 8KD I have the injector harness, the sensor harness minus the O2 sensor portion, someone had already disconnected them unfortunately, but I do have the MAF (I think its a MAF) the throttle body/valve, and the IAC and all the connectors. I've had this for a few weeks now and debating for my Mopar 431 stoker that's coming down the pike very soon applying this ECM to the hardware. Originally, I was going GM TPI, as I have a complete setup for this as well (1993 Camaro). For some reason, the Ford stuff was much easier to get/obtain and much cheaper. Anyway, I'm just updating ya :) Do you have the links for the EEC-IV project website(s) as well as the mailing list? I was subscribed for a while, but apparently no longer and am missing the links. Would be appreciated! -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.xephic.dynip.com 1993 Superchaged Lincoln Continental 1989 500cid Turbocharged HWMMV 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab (soon to be twin turbo 440) 2000 Buick GTP (twin turbo V6) From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 11:30:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20508 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:30:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA20504 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:30:10 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id KAA29119; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:30:10 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma029117; Fri, 5 Mar 99 10:29:48 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA23642; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:29:47 -0600 Message-ID: <36E0061D.D831AB5F@arm.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:28:13 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope References: <3.0.5.32.19990305092513.0085ea30@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Tom, didn't know you were still on the list. I might be interested in one of your scopes, what's your price range? --steve cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu wrote: > > At 08:18 AM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote: > >SFI at 6000RPM is 30CPS, ganged injectors (double fire) is 60CPS. That's > > anyone looking for scopes ?? I have two -- one an HP (don't have model > or BW, but suspect it's about 20 MHz) and the other, a Phillips PM-3055 > with 60 MHz BW. Both are benchtop scopes -- not handheld. Also > have some other test equipment and a Weller WTCP soldering iron > in good condition, if anyone's interested. > > Tom Cloud -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 11:38:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA20788 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:38:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA20783 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:38:14 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id JAA16577 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:38:12 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903051638.JAA16577@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: Voltage controller? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:38:12 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <36E01D0E.51F3@nni.com> from "rr" at Mar 05, 1999 10:06:06 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu rr wrote: > > Dan, > > If you wanted to convert the 5v MAP to a 12v signal, relative, use an > op-amp. Just use an amp with a gain of 2.4 (12 / 5). Use this in the > non-inverting configuration. The only problem with this is head-room, > most amps won't go to the plus rail. > > A better approach might be PWM. Look in the 'incoming' directory for > the files: PWM2.gif and PWM2.txt (not sure of the exact case). > Thanks, I just found that on the ftp site this morning. I think that'll do what I want. I got on the ERL site to do some more checking. They say the pump is controlled by varying frequency and duration of the controlling pulse. In the specs for the pump, they list an Input voltage of around 14V, Input current of 8A, and a control input of 0-12V @ 5mA(digital). This would be a PWM signal right? Does the voltage in this case of the control input matter? Since the motor has a seperate power source wouldn't a particular pulse frequency @ say 4V have the same result as the same pulse @ 8, 10 or 12V? thanks --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 11:59:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA21501 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:59:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA21497 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:59:22 -0500 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA26451; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 8825672B.005CBA33 ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:52:49 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: Daniel Houlton Message-ID: <8825672B.005CB76B.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:52:04 -0800 Subject: Use larger inj. & dual -pots/SMOG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> Damn skippy! That's how to do it. No aux injectors, no rising rate FPR, or any band-aids like that. Go with larger injectors, and fab up the dual-pot MAF sensor signal intercept. It's the cleanest low buck way to get the job done (in your case). You can mount the pots in your glovebox if you want! No SMOG check is going to get you if you make the wiring appear OEM (w/ OEM connectors, tie-wraps, etc.). I'm not so lucky. I'm in CA, and have to get the car SMOG checked every two years. I'll have to remove the ENTIRE custom turbo set-up: Electromotive TEC II, larger injectors, FPR, copper headgasket (have to raise the CR back up to 10:1), 3" exhaust & 3" downpipe, J-pipe, all plumbing, all TEC II wiring, install an OEM wiring harness to the engine...ARRRGH!!! I guess I could use it as an excuse to swap in a freshly bored out short block, while I have the head off. Maybe upgrade to all forged pistons/rods. =) Anybody go to a SMOG referee station to get their car exempted? I can dial the emissions in to better than OEM w/ the TEC II and a laptop. Or, I could have a "SMOG" program just for it, w/ the EGR functioning as well. CA SMOG test is simple enough. They check the car at 900 rpm for 30 seconds, then 2500 rpm for 30 or 45 seconds, then check it again at 900 rpm. Visual inspection checks the fuel filler flap (so the car can't use leaded), the Cat, the EGR vacuum pump test, vacuum lines, and a watchful eye for any aftermarket goodies (turbo/NOS/SC, etc.). Thoughts on the SMOG ref station? If I didn't pass, the car would be VIN marked for life! =( Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:00:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA21852 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:00:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21848 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:00:48 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id KAA16905 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:00:46 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903051700.KAA16905@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: How do AICs work? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:00:45 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <00e301be671b$2cd6b8c0$39633acf@nacelp> from "Bruce Plecan" at Mar 05, 1999 10:16:32 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Houlton > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 10:04 AM > Subject: Re: How do AICs work? > > While it's common practice not to exceed 85%, if your oem calibration does, > what makes you believe that for that application 100% is wrong?. Because of everything I've read on fuel injecton and injectors say that a duty cycle that high will damage the injectors in short order. Some say 80% is the limit. Some say 90%. But they all agree that 100% is bad. Also, I doubt my OEM calibration does exceed 80 or 85%. The engine never made enought hp stock to need it. It's only hitting 100% I'm sure because of the extra hp the turbo is making. > You mention smog police, and steathy, ya really think they'll miss the > turbo?. Not sure. I'm in AZ and I've found them to be somewhat liberal in what they'll let pass as long as it looks safe and passes the sniffer. I had an un- certified header last time I went in, but it retained the EGR and O2 sensor and passed the sniffer no problem so they didn't say a word. I also called before putting the header on and spoke to one of the techs that do the tests. He said as long as no smog equipment is removed and it passes the sniffer they don't much care if the actual parts have an smog number on them or not. My turbo actually looks very factory installed other than the induction hoses which I plan to re-do by then to make it look cleaner and neater. I do believe that unless I get one that know Amigos, they won't know it didn't come from the factory. And even if they do, I doubt they'll flunk it unless I mess with the smog equipment or it fails the sniffer. The extra injectors and lines just make it look less factory. > Did you ever figure out for sure if the MAF is voltage or freq?. It's definitely voltage. Previously I had it only up to about 4.3 V, but I hooked the meter back up to it last night and took it out on the freeway and at high loads and boost, it got 5.7V out of it. This was around 4500 rpm or so and about 8 psi of boost which isn't quite where the injectors maxed out yet. The MAF has 3 wires: 12V power (regulated 12V I think, not battery voltage.), ground and the signal wire. I really would like to get it flow tested to plot the V out against the cfm it flows. Can't find a place that can do it though. I did check the manual for my automotive multimeter and it turns out it can measure frequency from MAFs (RTFM right?) using one of the modes intended for measuring rpm. Havent tried it yet though to see. thanks --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:04:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22060 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:04:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22056 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:04:27 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id KAA16979 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:04:26 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903051704.KAA16979@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: How do AICs work? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:04:26 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <005001be6723$bcafb2a0$597889d0@soren> from "soren" at Mar 05, 1999 08:17:59 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu soren wrote: > > > >While it's common practice not to exceed 85%, if your oem calibration does, > >what makes you believe that for that application 100% is wrong?. > > > Oh yeah I forgot to mention that apparently the injectors on my turbo > Impulse run at 98% duty cycle under boost in stock trim (Hitachi fuel > injection, 8 psi boost). That figure is from some literature from Isuzu; > tested levels appear as 100% on my crappy multimeter duty cycle setting. > I've never had an injector lock up on me. > > Soren Rounds > That's interesting. Do you happen to know who makes them or what type they are? Bosch, Lucas, pintle, disc, etc? --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:05:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22106 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:05:38 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22101 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:05:36 -0500 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-217.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.217]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id JAA08362 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:05:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <36E01BD2.3928@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:00:50 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope References: <199903050447.VAA08505@user2.inficad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Any scope is better than no scope, but the rule of thumb is that the scope BW oughta be 5X the signal of interest. The scope will lie to you about the waveform otherwise. Slow scopes won't show you hi-frequency noise/ringing/ oscillation riding your signal levels, for instance. Frequently an issue, especially on breadboards. There are lots of 100 Mhz Teks out there surplus, typically $300-500. These can be very good value for money. Don't buy an analog storage scope. (Unless you want one). Different animal. I've been using a 50 Mhz Tek 556 for years, a genuine dinosaur :) It's an awesome piece, but I keep thinking about those 30-year-old electrolytics ... Regards, Jack Daniel Houlton wrote: > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer > > Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 > > (800) 543-4330 > How much use is this? I don't know much about them other than the higher > the frequency, the higher the cost. What's the minimum we should be looking > for to do EFI type stuff or just general circuit building? Is this one > good enough to be useful or will it rapidly show it's limitations? I've > seen 20, 30, 60 and up to 100 Hz scopes. How much is really needed? Hi Dan. From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:09:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22200 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:09:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from tmc6.astm.cmri.cmu.edu (TMC.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU [128.2.224.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22196 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:09:21 -0500 Received: by TMC.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU with Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) id ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:03:57 -0500 Message-ID: <311B7EA14AAAD111B6AC0000C0E4A3CF0D8AF8@TMC.ASTM.CMRI.CMU.EDU> From: Michael Kasimirsky To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: aluminum intake cosmetics Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:35:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > High Performance Coatings--Salt Lake City, Okie City. Do not > have number > handy, Let me know if 1-800 info cannot get it for you. > > They do headers, pistons, manifolds, chambers, ports, you > name it. (Several > different types of coatings.) I had the exhaust system on a Suzuki GSX-R750 coated by HPC and I was not impressed. It cost over $200 for the coating and the pipe rusted in less than two years. I've heard of people getting better results than I did, but they won't be getting any more money from me to find out. If anything, I'd use Jet Hot Coatings since at least they offer a 3 year warrantee. But in reality, I'll buy stainless pipes or get used to frequent reapplication of high-temp paint. Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider FASTTRAX & WERA Expert #21 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports & Bridgestone mtk@tmc.astm.cmri.cmu.edu From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:14:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22391 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:14:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from happy.firstnethou.com (happy.firstnethou.com [206.42.12.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22386 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:14:39 -0500 Received: from msi (ppp-247-124.firstnethou.com [209.83.247.124]) by happy.firstnethou.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id LAA53592 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:12:52 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990305104633.006b1970@firstnethou.com> X-Sender: esc@firstnethou.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 10:46:33 -0600 To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: esc Subject: New to list, have a question. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi everyone, I'm Eric Comstock and I just joined this list. I thought I would start by asking a question. First my situation. I am working on a Chevy 350 using a Holley Projection4 TBI. This is one of the origional analog units that used the MSD controller. I also have the closed loop kit (O2 only) installed. So it gets inputs from the throttle position sensor, the distributor(RPM), the starter, coolent temperature, and the O2 sensor. I installed a shut-off switch on the Closed loop kit, so that baseline adjustments can be easily made. The closed loop kit intercepts the TPS voltage and adjusts it in order to fool the computer into adjusting the fuel flow. OK, everything worked fairly well until I installed a RAM-AIR system on the car. Now the difference between high speed on a cold night and low speeds on a hot day is too much for the system to cope with. I'm really not sure what to do about it. The only thing that I have been able to come up with so far is to build my own computer to run things. I am an experienced programmer, but that project would be a little outside of my realm of experience. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Should I just go buy the new Digital Projection system and hope it will work better? Thanks Eric Comstock esc@firstnethou.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:18:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA22558 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:18:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22553 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:18:10 -0500 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA29670; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:17:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 8825672B.005E7A7A ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:11:57 -0800 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: Daniel Houlton cc: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <8825672B.005E781A.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:11:14 -0800 Subject: Grass roots Water Injection/ injectors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> Uhh, before blowing all that cash on the AquaMist set-up...PLEASE read this page! It's what the doctor ordered. Grass roots water injection for forced-induction. http://home.ccci.org/Key_Information/MerkurPage.htm#H20 You also mentioned that your injectors were hitting the 100% duty cycle wall under full boost (9psi), and that you heard anything over 80% was dangerous. Well, it depends on a lot of variables, but running most Bosch injectors at 90% is fine. They can handle it all day long. 95% is pushing it. 100% is unacceptable. If you could tweak the injector pulse width values in the code, you could swap in larger injectors and simply run the duty cycle at significantly less at idle...and close the pulsewidth to the about the lowest value the ECU can go (let's say 5ms). Then have normal values up top. That would avoid running extremely rich at idle, but would be fine under boost. One of the problems with my Motronic 2.9 version, is that it can't lower the pulsewidth below about 4ms. When 440cc/min injectors were swapped in, it would run rich at idle. The code couldn't be tweaked any further. Result? Plenty of fuel under boost, but black smoke at idle. Kiss $35 worth of new NGK dual-electrode plugs goodbye. Fouled beyond cleaning. Motronic out, Electromotive in. No more MAF sensor troubles either. Speed Density and forced-induction is a match made in hot rod heaven, IF...you have the right software. =) Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:56:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23707 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:56:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23702 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:56:23 -0500 Received: from soren (ppp89.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.89]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA10620 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:50:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001e01be6731$35957bc0$597889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: How do AICs work? Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 09:54:25 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Oh yeah I forgot to mention that apparently the injectors on my turbo >> Impulse run at 98% duty cycle under boost in stock trim (Hitachi fuel >> injection, 8 psi boost). That figure is from some literature from Isuzu; >> tested levels appear as 100% on my crappy multimeter duty cycle setting. >> I've never had an injector lock up on me. >> >> Soren Rounds >> > >That's interesting. Do you happen to know who makes them or what type they >are? Bosch, Lucas, pintle, disc, etc? They are peak & hold type, I think NGK, most likely pintle type. Flow 225 cc/min @85% dc & 43 psi Soren From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 12:56:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA23721 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:56:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from zoostation.cns.ohiou.edu (root@zoostation.cns.ohiou.edu [132.235.197.80]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA23717 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:56:32 -0500 Received: from mansfield.cns.ohiou.edu (mansfield.cns.ohiou.edu [132.235.197.61]) by zoostation.cns.ohiou.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA21943 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:56:31 -0500 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 12:56:32 -0500 From: Doug Mansfield To: Do-it-Yourself Fuel Injection Mailing List Subject: DIS and DIST ref pulse Message-ID: <1515591066.920638592@mansfield.cns.ohiou.edu> Originator-Info: login-id=dmans; server=zoostation.cns.ohiou.edu X-Mailer: Mulberry (Win32) [1.4.0, s/n U-301155] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I understand the DIS/IDI systems use a sync pulse each revolution of the crank, but with Ted's recent SyTy experiments, it seems that the ECM does not use this sync pulse? Does the DIS module "consume" this pulse? I guess what I am really getting at is what does the signal that goes to the ECM look like from a DIS v. DIST system compared to the signal that goes to the module. Are they 5v? When do they go high/go low? Does the module create the pulse for the ECM or does the reluctor? Thanks for any insight. Doug From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:04:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA23862 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:04:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA23858 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:04:56 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.57]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA02590 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:04:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <022501be6733$1a2cf6e0$39633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: New to list, have a question. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:07:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: esc To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 12:29 PM Subject: New to list, have a question. Welcome aboard. How about using a oem ecm to run the injectors?. If you go to the home page, and oem systems, and parts, there might be some info to help. Also, going through the archives, and searching would help. Bruce >Hi everyone, >I'm Eric Comstock and I just joined this list. > >I thought I would start by asking a question. First my situation. > >I am working on a Chevy 350 using a Holley Projection4 TBI. This is one of >the origional analog units that used the MSD controller. I also have the >closed loop kit (O2 only) installed. So it gets inputs from the throttle >position sensor, the distributor(RPM), the starter, coolent temperature, >and the O2 sensor. I installed a shut-off switch on the Closed loop kit, >so that baseline adjustments can be easily made. > >The closed loop kit intercepts the TPS voltage and adjusts it in order to >fool the computer into adjusting the fuel flow. > >OK, everything worked fairly well until I installed a RAM-AIR system on the >car. Now the difference between high speed on a cold night and low speeds >on a hot day is too much for the system to cope with. > >I'm really not sure what to do about it. The only thing that I have been >able to come up with so far is to build my own computer to run things. I >am an experienced programmer, but that project would be a little outside of >my realm of experience. > >Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? > >Should I just go buy the new Digital Projection system and hope it will >work better? > >Thanks > > >Eric Comstock >esc@firstnethou.com > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24168 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:13:53 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24164 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:13:52 -0500 Received: from [204.132.128.15] (p8.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.8]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA31236 for mail_from ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:13:49 -0700 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:13:49 -0700 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: aluminum intake cosmetics Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> High Performance Coatings--Salt Lake City, Okie City. Do not >> have number >> handy, Let me know if 1-800 info cannot get it for you. >> >> They do headers, pistons, manifolds, chambers, ports, you >> name it. (Several >> different types of coatings.) > >I had the exhaust system on a Suzuki GSX-R750 coated by HPC >and I was not impressed. It cost over $200 for the coating and >the pipe rusted in less than two years. I've heard of people getting >better results than I did, but they won't be getting any more money >from me to find out. If anything, I'd use Jet Hot Coatings since >at least they offer a 3 year warrantee. But in reality, I'll buy >stainless Hmmmm--well if you did not go for the "extreme duty " HPC coating, but needed it, that is the first problem. I can't buy stainless headers for my current projects, so am fabricating them from 321 SS (not particularly easy to buy headers in 321 SS anyway), which is the RIGHT stuff for headers. THEN--gonna have HPC put their extreme duty coating on them, inside and out for the thermal qualities--obviously not for corrosion prevention. Prolly gonna insulate the tubes over the coating too, but that's another story. Heat retention is the true purpose of these coatings, not necessarily corrosion protection. And the thermal properties of the coatings were what I was talking to the guys about--- Greg >pipes or get used to frequent reapplication of high-temp paint. > >Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer >Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider >FASTTRAX & WERA Expert #21 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports & Bridgestone >mtk@tmc.astm.cmri.cmu.edu From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:18:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24334 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:18:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from taylor.graphic1.com (mail@taylor.graphic1.com [207.213.0.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24330 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:18:05 -0500 Received: from localhost (httpd@localhost) by taylor.graphic1.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA09015 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:24:36 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:24:36 -0800 (PST) From: Ron To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: When you run out of pulsewidth... In-Reply-To: <006301be66d0$ed542ce0$6c7889d0@soren> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Please excuse if this is a naive question - I'm a very interested newbie. The Jag V12's I like to putz with use a coldstart injector in the center of the manifold. If you ran out of duty cycle could you just turn this on to increase fuel volume? Or expand on this with more of a 'throttle body injector' type of arrangement to keep the plumbing down? Got lots of airflow at that time anyway. Ron@graphic1.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:22:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24537 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:22:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scotty.nni.com (mail.djs.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24533 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:22:31 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.10.4]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:19:41 -0500 Message-ID: <36E04A7E.6135@nni.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:19:58 -0800 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Voltage controller? References: <199903051638.JAA16577@user2.inficad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm having some trouble following what you are saying. Can you post the URL for the Aqua-mist site? It sounds like the pump itself has some sort of controller built in, that needs another controller to run? As far as the 0-12v@5ma signal, and the level, it would depend upon what the digital level detector's are set to, as to whether a lower voltage would work or not. BobR. > > rr wrote: > > > > Dan, > > > > If you wanted to convert the 5v MAP to a 12v signal, relative, use an > > op-amp. Just use an amp with a gain of 2.4 (12 / 5). Use this in the > > non-inverting configuration. The only problem with this is head-room, > > most amps won't go to the plus rail. > > > > A better approach might be PWM. Look in the 'incoming' directory for > > the files: PWM2.gif and PWM2.txt (not sure of the exact case). > > Dan wrote: > > Thanks, I just found that on the ftp site this morning. I think that'll > do what I want. I got on the ERL site to do some more checking. They > say the pump is controlled by varying frequency and duration of the controlling > pulse. In the specs for the pump, they list an Input voltage of around 14V, > Input current of 8A, and a control input of 0-12V @ 5mA(digital). This > would be a PWM signal right? Does the voltage in this case of the control > input matter? Since the motor has a seperate power source wouldn't a particular > pulse frequency @ say 4V have the same result as the same pulse @ 8, 10 or > 12V? > > thanks -- From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:24:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24628 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:24:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24621 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:24:13 -0500 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id KAA65060; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:24:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:24:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC Report In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990305072739.009e2a80@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 5 Mar 1999 cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu wrote: > > 2 - Matt Happy at Auburn Performance Equipment has introduced his > product called the "SpeedBrain", which replaces the '87-'95 (I'm not > certain of the exact years) Mustang MAF EFI. This is what most > folks are converting to when they do mods -- but, it leaves out > those who have the E4OD tranny. Auburn Performance Equipment > > http://www.tiac.net/users/goape/sb.htm A possible work-around for the E4OD would be to use a pre-PowerStroke Diesel EECIV computer to control the trans, as that is all it does... From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:26:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA24738 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:26:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA24731 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:26:40 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.57]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA06639 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:26:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <028b01be6736$23df8a60$39633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: DIS and DIST ref pulse Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:29:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Doug Mansfield To: Do-it-Yourself Fuel Injection Mailing List Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 1:10 PM Subject: DIS and DIST ref pulse >I understand the DIS/IDI systems use a sync pulse each revolution of the >crank, but with Ted's recent SyTy experiments, it seems that the ECM does >not use this sync pulse? Sync pulse is for SEFI, batch fired don't use it. Bruce Does the DIS module "consume" this pulse? >I guess what I am really getting at is what does the signal that goes to >the ECM look like from a DIS v. DIST system compared to the signal that >goes to the module. Are they 5v? When do they go high/go low? Does the >module create the pulse for the ECM or does the reluctor? >Thanks for any insight. >Doug From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:38:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25233 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:38:11 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25229 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:38:09 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id LAA18525 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 11:38:04 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903051838.LAA18525@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: Grass roots Water Injection/ injectors To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 10:48:44 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <8825672B.005E781A.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> from "Jason_Leone@amat.com" at Mar 05, 1999 09:11:14 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jason_Leone@amat.com wrote: > > < yet have an intercooler and don't know when I will. In the meantime, I've > planned on building a water injection system using basically a boost > pressurized tank and a couple pumps to provide a pressure differential to > inject water after the turbo.Instead though, it's very likely that I'll be > getting an ERL AquaMist from a friend to try out. This is the $500 job I think. > Uses a high pressure > magnetic/diaphram pump or something. I won't be getting the controller > they sell for it, just the basic system.>> > > Uhh, before blowing all that cash on the AquaMist set-up...PLEASE read this Yeah I should have mentioned. I'm not *buying* the AquaMist (not with money anyways), I'm *getting* one, basically free from a friend. I agree they're way too expensive for me, but hey, I can't turn it down. > page! It's what the doctor ordered. Grass roots water injection for > forced-induction. > > http://home.ccci.org/Key_Information/MerkurPage.htm#H20 Been there. Excellent page with temp reduction results and everything. This is pretty much the system I was basing mine on. FYI for those that haven't been there yet, he got better temp reductions with the water injection (< $100) then he did with his custom Spearco air/water IC (~$700). > > You also mentioned that your injectors were hitting the 100% duty cycle wall > under full boost (9psi), and that you heard anything over 80% was dangerous. > Well, it depends on a lot of variables, but running most Bosch injectors at 90% > is fine. They can handle it all day long. 95% is pushing it. 100% is > unacceptable. If you could tweak the injector pulse width values in the code, > you could swap in larger injectors and simply run the duty cycle at > significantly less at idle...and close the pulsewidth to the about the lowest > value the ECU can go (let's say 5ms). Then have normal values up top. That would > avoid running extremely rich at idle, but would be fine under boost. One of the > problems with my Motronic 2.9 version, is that it can't lower the pulsewidth > below about 4ms. When 440cc/min injectors were swapped in, it would run rich at > idle. The code couldn't be tweaked any further. Result? Plenty of fuel under > boost, but black smoke at idle. Kiss $35 worth of new NGK dual-electrode plugs > goodbye. Fouled beyond cleaning. Motronic out, Electromotive in. No more MAF > sensor troubles either. Speed Density and forced-induction is a match made in > hot rod heaven, IF...you have the right software. =) > > Jason > '93 SLC Yeah, that's a big if. If I had an aftermerked EFI I could do about anything I wanted. Too expensive though and I'm not willing to replace the stock ECM. In a sports car? yeah maybe. But not worth it to me for my truck. Even modifying the stock ECM is out since there's no scanners or chip makers for it that I'm aware of. Not sure I'd want to fork over the cash for a one-time chip anyways. Too little bang for the buck. I would go to a complete system like an Electromotive unit before I did that. --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 13:57:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25631 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:57:13 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu (peaches.ph.utexas.edu [128.83.179.26]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25627 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:57:13 -0500 From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu Received: from m198214180161.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA31340; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:00:28 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990305125447.008794d0@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 12:54:47 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: New to list, have a question. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990305104633.006b1970@firstnethou.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:46 AM 3/5/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hi everyone, >I'm Eric Comstock and I just joined this list. > >I thought I would start by asking a question. First my situation. > >I am working on a Chevy 350 using a Holley Projection4 TBI. This is one of >the origional analog units that used the MSD controller. I also have the >closed loop kit (O2 only) installed. So it gets inputs from the throttle >position sensor, the distributor(RPM), the starter, coolent temperature, >and the O2 sensor. I installed a shut-off switch on the Closed loop kit, >so that baseline adjustments can be easily made. > >The closed loop kit intercepts the TPS voltage and adjusts it in order to >fool the computer into adjusting the fuel flow. > >OK, everything worked fairly well until I installed a RAM-AIR system on the >car. Now the difference between high speed on a cold night and low speeds >on a hot day is too much for the system to cope with. Eric, I also have an early ProJection .... doesn't have the EGO feedback though. This is probably not going to be any real help to you, but I thought I'd share some quick thoughts with you . the projection is an alpha-n controller -- only uses rpm and tps to determine fuel flow . the temp input is, as best as I can determine, basically an on-off kind of thing to enrich the mixture and energize the throttle kicker, so I don't consider it a bona fide "input" for normal operation . the "ego feedback" unit is only to keep the system closer to stoic ...... a problem I constantly have is the unit always runs rich .... it can be adjusted leaner, but then it will run entirely too lean at certain points (I have a DPM watching an EGO, so I get a little "feedback" myself ;-) ... if you agree with the above (that the ego feeback is to try to keep the unit from running so rich, and maybe to prevent the operating points where it also runs too lean, and that it's not to really improve on the operating characteristics of the unit ....) . then, consider that a MAP input might be more logical ?? I had entertained the idea of either building my own ego feedback unit or a map feedback unit -- or could actually sum the two together ?? All that's needed is to sum the input from the tps with the conditioned voltage(s) from the other devices. To me, the map input makes more sense and would elevate the unit from the status of simple alpha-n controller to a simple speed-density unit (which their literature claims it is anyway!). Why haven't I done that? The Bronco it's in is my "fun" truck and doesn't get driven often and it has other needs first. Second, I am now collecting parts to put the oem ford maf setup on it. This will cost $1000 or more by the time I'm done, but it should work without hiccups and I don't think any bandaid fix is ever going to really fix the projection (not even their digital unit). just some rambling thoughts on the ProJection ...... Tom Cloud From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 14:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25736 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:00:51 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from rgate.ricochet.net (rgate1.ricochet.net [204.179.143.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25732 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:00:50 -0500 Received: from home (mg-20425420-102.ricochet.net [204.254.20.102]) by rgate.ricochet.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA25443 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:00:44 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990305140222.006eb03c@pop.ricochet.net> X-Sender: synchris@pop.ricochet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 14:02:27 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Chris Conlon Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 12:03 AM 3/5/99 -0500, Bruce Plecan wrote: Bruce Plecan wrote: > Just saw an ad for one in MCM flyer > Handheld O-Scope 5 Hz $199 > (800) 543-4330 I'm looking to get a handheld scope, and I wanted to know if people had any other leads on where to look. Places I've already looked: Fluke / HP / Tek Jameco and the places mentioned a couple weeks back about multimeters and such. Mainly I'd like a better sense of what's out there before I buy. Roughly I'd like 5MHz, dual trace, frequency counter and all the usual multimeter functions, $500 or less. (Which unless I mug someone pretty much rules out the big 3...) TIA, Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 14:01:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25794 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:01:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA25789 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:01:53 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id jOICa23206 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:01:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <5c86f8cc.36e029fe@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:01:18 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: DIS and DIST ref pulse Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 3/5/99 12:59:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, mansfield@cns.ohiou.edu writes: > I understand the DIS/IDI systems use a sync pulse each revolution of the > crank, but with Ted's recent SyTy experiments, it seems that the ECM does > not use this sync pulse? Does the DIS module "consume" this pulse? > > I guess what I am really getting at is what does the signal that goes to > the ECM look like from a DIS v. DIST system compared to the signal that > goes to the module. Are they 5v? When do they go high/go low? Does the > module create the pulse for the ECM or does the reluctor? > > Thanks for any insight. > > > Doug My DIS module recieves a synced pulse from the magnetic pickup which is reading a reluctor. The wheel is a "6+1" wheel (actually a pulley that I rigged up). The DIS module DOES NOT send a synced pulse to the ECM. However, there is an unused pin on the DIS module. Perhaps this could be the sync pulse. But with my batchfire ECM (7730) that pin is unused and the plug is molded in such a way that I can't get to it to see what it's doing. Ted From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 14:06:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26021 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:06:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from happy.firstnethou.com (happy.firstnethou.com [206.42.12.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26013 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:06:37 -0500 Received: from msi (ppp-247-104.firstnethou.com [209.83.247.104]) by happy.firstnethou.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA79574 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:04:48 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990305125457.006bae78@firstnethou.com> X-Sender: esc@firstnethou.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 12:54:57 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: esc Subject: Re: New to list, have a question. In-Reply-To: <022501be6733$1a2cf6e0$39633acf@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 01:07 PM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-----Original Message----- >From: esc >To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 12:29 PM >Subject: New to list, have a question. > >Welcome aboard. >How about using a oem ecm to run the injectors?. >If you go to the home page, and oem systems, and parts, there might be some >info to help. >Also, going through the archives, and searching would help. >Bruce > > I'll take a look at the archives. Would you have any suggestions as to what whould be a good (read easy to reprogram) OEM ECM to work with? I would basically be starting from scratch. I do like the idea of being able to write my own code to run things, but I don't have any idea what would be involved on the hardware side of the problem. Eric Comstock esc@firstnethou.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 14:08:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26095 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:08:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu (peaches.ph.utexas.edu [128.83.179.26]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA26090 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:08:05 -0500 From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu Received: from m198214180161.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA68548; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 13:11:20 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990305130603.0087d900@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 13:06:03 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope In-Reply-To: <36E0061D.D831AB5F@arm.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19990305092513.0085ea30@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:28 AM 3/5/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Tom, didn't know you were still on the list. I might be interested >in one of your scopes, what's your price range? > >--steve I've not been on the list -- and intend to unsubscribe pretty soon. Just joined to report on the eec list's progress. I don't know what's fair for the scopes ...... the each list in Tucker and other used equipment sources for $600 + ..... the Philips because of its bandwidth and the HP for its name. (If bandwidth weren't important, I still don't know which I would choose -- I have two of the Philips and am keeping one for myself, but the HP is nice and it may be easier to get parts for it if it breaks ???) anyway, back to price .... I suppose $250 or so. I'm also looking for parts to do the ford efi on my bronco, so I'm needing lots of ford parts, like a mustang sefi maf harness ('89-'95 mustang), throttle body, injectors, etc, etc. If you're interested in that, I have a long list! So, are you still in Austin ? Tom Cloud From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 14:16:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26325 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:16:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from user2.inficad.com (houlster@user2.inficad.com [208.220.149.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26321 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:16:04 -0500 Received: (from houlster@localhost) by user2.inficad.com (8.9.1a/8.9.0) id MAA18905 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:15:59 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Houlton Message-Id: <199903051915.MAA18905@user2.inficad.com> Subject: Re: Voltage controller? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 12:15:59 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <36E04A7E.6135@nni.com> from "rr" at Mar 05, 1999 01:19:58 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL0b2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu rr wrote: > > I'm having some trouble following what you are saying. Can you post the > URL for the Aqua-mist site? Sorry, I meant to include that but forgot. http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/sys1/sys1a.html#pump That's the paragraph where they say it's controlled by frequency. Follow the "TECH-LINK" link at the end of the paragraph to get to the pump specs. > It sounds like the pump itself has some sort of controller built in, > that needs another controller to run? That's the way it sounds. Reading the paragraph more closely, it does state that it uses an on-board electronic controller. The "TECH" page says "pressure and delivery rate is regulated by internal hi-tech electronic circuitry". Then the specs at the bottom say it takes a 14V, 8A power source and a 0-12V, 5mA digital signal. Maybe it does just take a 0-12V voltage signal and convert it to PWM internally? That's kinda what it's starting to look like again. The word "digital" on the spec for the signal input is what made me think is used a PWM signal. Maybe it's just a buzz-word or marketing thing to make it sound fancier and it just uses a plain analog voltage signal? thanks --Dan From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 14:44:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27174 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:44:41 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27170 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:44:40 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.57]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA25765 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:44:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <033c01be6741$08a32f80$39633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: New to list, have a question. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:47:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: esc To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 2:23 PM Subject: Re: New to list, have a question. The gm 1227747 might be a good candidate. Some of it's been hacked and at Programming 101. But, some of the code is internal to the ecm. A 1227165, 1227730, have all the program on the memcal. The 747 uses 32K prom, the others 128/256K.. Bruce >>Welcome aboard. >>How about using a oem ecm to run the injectors?. >>If you go to the home page, and oem systems, and parts, there might be some >>info to help. >>Also, going through the archives, and searching would help. >>Bruce >I'll take a look at the archives. >Would you have any suggestions as to what whould be a good (read easy to >reprogram) OEM ECM to work with? >I would basically be starting from scratch. I do like the idea of being >able to write my own code to run things, but I don't have any idea what >would be involved on the hardware side of the problem. >Eric Comstock >esc@firstnethou.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 15:58:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA28365 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:58:17 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA28361 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 15:58:16 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id OAA05416; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:58:13 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma005391; Fri, 5 Mar 99 14:57:58 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA01997; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:57:57 -0600 Message-ID: <36E044ED.DB9A499F@arm.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 14:56:13 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: New to list, have a question. References: <3.0.1.32.19990305125457.006bae78@firstnethou.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I'll take a look at the archives. > Would you have any suggestions as to what whould be a good (read easy to > reprogram) OEM ECM to work with? > I would basically be starting from scratch. I do like the idea of being > able to write my own code to run things, but I don't have any idea what > would be involved on the hardware side of the problem. Eric, start at the diy_efi WWW page, click on OEM systems, then click GM. Read the "programming 101" article and the "tuning tips article". They're both about the 1227747 ECM, a TBI ECM used on GM trucks from '88 to '92 or something like that. There won't be much code to write, but a lot of major tables have been figured out so there's some table editing to make it match your particular engine. You can get an EPROM programmer and some junk ECMs a lot cheaper than the holley system.... --steve > > Eric Comstock > esc@firstnethou.com -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 16:32:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28915 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:32:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from out4.ibm.net (out4.ibm.net [165.87.194.239]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28910 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:32:34 -0500 Received: from little-p90 (slip129-37-161-112.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.112]) by out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA55472 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:32:32 GMT Message-ID: <36E04D73.52B7@ibm.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 16:32:36 -0500 From: "Clarence L.Snyder" Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope References: <199903050447.VAA08505@user2.inficad.com> <36E01BD2.3928@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I've been using a 50 Mhz Tek 556 for years, a genuine > dinosaur :) It's an awesome piece, but I keep thinking > about those 30-year-old electrolytics ... > Tell me about them! I've had two old scopes go "BANG" while I was using them - durn near jumped out of my skin and filled my drawers both times. Smoke and Kapok (or whatever the stuff was - looked like dandelion fluff) all over the room too. From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 17:08:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29435 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:08:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu (peaches.ph.utexas.edu [128.83.179.26]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA29431 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:08:07 -0500 From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu Received: from m198214180161.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA56568; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:11:23 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990305160618.007beaa0@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 16:06:18 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: electronics suppliers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu help .. someone gave me the name of an online place from whom I got LED and LCD DPMs for something line $6.00 each. They had lots of good stuff cheeeep! Now I can't find their address (lost their bookmark somehow). I know about Newark, Digikey, Mouser, Hosfelt, MCM ... (you can see my automotive and electronic links at http://www.austin.cc.tx.us./ESA/tc_auto.html ) thanks Tom Cloud From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 17:13:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29555 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:13:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29551 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:13:25 -0500 From: dciobota@hiwaay.net Received: from hiwaay.net (tnt4-208-166-127-220.dialup.HiWAAY.net [208.166.127.220]) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA29093 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 16:13:23 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <36E057DC.636D3888@hiwaay.net> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 14:17:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.0-final i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics References: <01bc01be6709$77e956e0$208556cf@jimyeagley.stratos.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim Yeagley wrote: > About the sandblasters: > > I seem to remember a while back buying a blaster for around $25 or $30 from > an auto body supply house. It looked like the head of a paint gun, without > the cup, and had replaceable ceramic venturis. The tube coming out of the > bottom where the cup would normally be simply had a hose attached, the other > end had another tube that could be shoved into the top of a bag of sand. > Attach air at the base of the handle and you're done. The cabinet mentioned > before would be perfect to use with this gun, with some cheapo lexan panel > to view through. The whole thing could probably be built for less than > $60. > I have one of those things and it works, although it's very messy without a sanding box. Eastwood has a bunch of different sandblasting kits and sandblasting boxes. Some of them have another suction hose next to the sandblasting tip to reclaim the sand. Daniel From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 17:17:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29656 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:28 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29652 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:27 -0500 Received: from default (anx-gar0113.deltanet.com [204.177.113.113]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA15770 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:17:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: DIS and DIST ref pulse Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:19:19 -0800 Message-ID: <000001be6756$36615770$7171b1cc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <028b01be6736$23df8a60$39633acf@nacelp> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Generally the DIS to ECM/PCM signal is the same as a DRP, Distributor Reference Pulse, active on the falling edge. Engine starting is handled by the DIS module with out help form the ECM/PCM. This is because of the very ling periods between DRP's. Ward > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce > Plecan > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 10:30 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: DIS and DIST ref pulse > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Mansfield > To: Do-it-Yourself Fuel Injection Mailing List > > Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 1:10 PM > Subject: DIS and DIST ref pulse > > > >I understand the DIS/IDI systems use a sync pulse each revolution of the > >crank, but with Ted's recent SyTy experiments, it seems that the ECM does > >not use this sync pulse? > > Sync pulse is for SEFI, batch fired don't use it. > Bruce > > Does the DIS module "consume" this pulse? > >I guess what I am really getting at is what does the signal that goes to > >the ECM look like from a DIS v. DIST system compared to the signal that > >goes to the module. Are they 5v? When do they go high/go low? Does the > >module create the pulse for the ECM or does the reluctor? > >Thanks for any insight. > >Doug > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 17:17:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29672 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29663 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:30 -0500 Received: from default (anx-gar0113.deltanet.com [204.177.113.113]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA15789 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:17:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: New to list, have a question. Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:19:20 -0800 Message-ID: <000101be6756$376077f0$7171b1cc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <022501be6733$1a2cf6e0$39633acf@nacelp> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce, exllent idea, a GM 1227747 would be perferct, it well documented and cheep. Ward. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce > Plecan > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 10:08 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: New to list, have a question. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: esc > To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 12:29 PM > Subject: New to list, have a question. > > Welcome aboard. > How about using a oem ecm to run the injectors?. > If you go to the home page, and oem systems, and parts, there > might be some > info to help. > Also, going through the archives, and searching would help. > Bruce > > > >Hi everyone, > >I'm Eric Comstock and I just joined this list. > > > >I thought I would start by asking a question. First my situation. > > > >I am working on a Chevy 350 using a Holley Projection4 TBI. > This is one of > >the origional analog units that used the MSD controller. I also have the > >closed loop kit (O2 only) installed. So it gets inputs from the throttle > >position sensor, the distributor(RPM), the starter, coolent temperature, > >and the O2 sensor. I installed a shut-off switch on the Closed loop kit, > >so that baseline adjustments can be easily made. > > > >The closed loop kit intercepts the TPS voltage and adjusts it in order to > >fool the computer into adjusting the fuel flow. > > > >OK, everything worked fairly well until I installed a RAM-AIR > system on the > >car. Now the difference between high speed on a cold night and > low speeds > >on a hot day is too much for the system to cope with. > > > >I'm really not sure what to do about it. The only thing that I have been > >able to come up with so far is to build my own computer to run things. I > >am an experienced programmer, but that project would be a little > outside of > >my realm of experience. > > > >Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? > > > >Should I just go buy the new Digital Projection system and hope it will > >work better? > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Eric Comstock > >esc@firstnethou.com > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 17:17:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29680 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:32 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29675 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:31 -0500 Received: from default (anx-gar0113.deltanet.com [204.177.113.113]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA15801 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:17:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: Use larger inj. & dual -pots/SMOG Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:19:22 -0800 Message-ID: <000201be6756$38751c40$7171b1cc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8825672B.005CB76B.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jason, I don't think so, The hardware has to be OEM, ECM sensors etc, The referee will by an engine swap if you swap a car engine into a car or truck/truck, but you can't pick and choose. It has to be an identifiable OEM configuration, else you don't get to the emission test part of the program, you go to exit do not pass go. This leaves using the OEM processor, generally a much better choice anyway, but you need to hack the code or by commercial code mod programs, they are amiable for a lot of applications. And as for the 2 step test, If you have a heavy duty truck, you got it right, otherwise its to the BAR97 Dyno test. The NOX portion usually gets the hot car guys in California. Of course you can sign up as a limited production car maker and start out with EPA 75 emissions testing, shed test etc. The EPA 75's are $750 a pop. Ward > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of > Jason_Leone@amat.com > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 8:52 AM > To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu > Cc: Daniel Houlton > Subject: Use larger inj. & dual -pots/SMOG > > > < rather swap to larger injectors than run the rising rate FPR or plumb in > additional injectors. It's much cleaner I think, doesn't have any bad > sides that I can see (so long as I don't go so big it won't idle) and > it's much more stealthy. I'll have a much better chance of sliding this > whole thing by the smog police if I don't have a huge regulator or extra > fuel lines and injectors running everywhere.>> > > Damn skippy! That's how to do it. No aux injectors, no rising > rate FPR, or any > band-aids like that. Go with larger injectors, and fab up the dual-pot MAF > sensor signal intercept. It's the cleanest low buck way to get > the job done (in > your case). You can mount the pots in your glovebox if you want! > No SMOG check > is going to get you if you make the wiring appear OEM (w/ OEM connectors, > tie-wraps, etc.). > > I'm not so lucky. I'm in CA, and have to get the car SMOG checked > every two > years. I'll have to remove the ENTIRE custom turbo set-up: > Electromotive TEC II, > larger injectors, FPR, copper headgasket (have to raise the CR > back up to 10:1), > 3" exhaust & 3" downpipe, J-pipe, all plumbing, all TEC II > wiring, install an > OEM wiring harness to the engine...ARRRGH!!! > > I guess I could use it as an excuse to swap in a freshly bored > out short block, > while I have the head off. Maybe upgrade to all forged pistons/rods. =) > > Anybody go to a SMOG referee station to get their car exempted? I > can dial the > emissions in to better than OEM w/ the TEC II and a laptop. Or, I > could have a > "SMOG" program just for it, w/ the EGR functioning as well. CA > SMOG test is > simple enough. They check the car at 900 rpm for 30 seconds, then > 2500 rpm for > 30 or 45 seconds, then check it again at 900 rpm. Visual > inspection checks the > fuel filler flap (so the car can't use leaded), the Cat, the EGR > vacuum pump > test, vacuum lines, and a watchful eye for any aftermarket goodies > (turbo/NOS/SC, etc.). Thoughts on the SMOG ref station? If I > didn't pass, the > car would be VIN marked for life! =( > > Jason > '93 SLC > > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 17:17:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29700 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail2.deltanet.com (mail2.deltanet.com [199.171.190.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29693 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:17:35 -0500 Received: from default (anx-gar0113.deltanet.com [204.177.113.113]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA15830 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:17:32 -0800 (PST) From: "Ward Spoonemore" To: Subject: RE: 4L80E / ALDL Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 14:19:26 -0800 Message-ID: <000401be6756$3aaedfa0$7171b1cc@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <6FA58B03A836D111977F0060B068FAFD0221D5AB@nts1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I thnk your project has merit, I also think the PIC chip is a winner for this kind of application. How bout dumping the data to a flash chip for use later, the real time display is of limited use and you can eliminat all the junk in the the truck. I can probably help with the decoding, Ill check back. Ward > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > [mailto:owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu]On Behalf Of Niinikoski > Juha > Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 4:45 AM > To: 'DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: 4L80E / ALDL > > > Hi > I am new on the list and don't know if this is right place to start 4L80E > TCM thread ? > > I have 97 N/A diesel Hummer with 4L80E electronic transmission. Some time > ago I decided to try to build a display unit with what you can watch few > most critical transmission parameters like temperature TCC slippage and > possible clutch slippage. So far I have managed to hack ALDL interface and > protocol. Of course this happened by the hard way. First I taught that > Hummer 97 Implementation where OBD-II because of OBD-II like connector but > it is ALDL 8192. > > I have build couple of display prototypes. One with Motorola HC12 CPU and > 4x40 LCD display.HC12 contains also 8-channell A/D converter. I > have plan to > include some other measurements too. Second one is really cheap > build with > Microchip PIC16F84 "washing machine" processor and 2x20 LCD. If anybody is > interested I can provide more information about my projects. > > > Where I need help. > 1. > I am now stuck with decoding parameters what TCM provides. I have found > most easy / evident ones like RPMs, temperature, selector > switches etc. Most > of the response data is still unknown for me. Do anyone have documents or > more information about 4L80E ALDL commands / responses ? > > 2. > What is the right way to start communication with TCM. I have figured out > that read parameters command is F5 57 01 00 B3 but you need to > give command > twice first time. After ALDL bus have "woken up" you need only one command > to get response. If you do not issue new commands within about one second > bus goes to sleep mode again. Are there some sort of wake up > procedure or is > this (sending first command two times) right way to do it ? > > Juha Niinikoski > Espoo Finland > 97 N/A Diesel Hummer > From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 19:05:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA31053 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:05:20 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from gdi4.gdi.net (root@gdi4.gdi.net [209.26.2.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA31048 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:05:19 -0500 Received: from bigden (usr2b-11.gdi.net [209.26.36.139]) by gdi4.gdi.net (8.8.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23632 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:51:45 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990305184634.0084c3d0@gdi.net> X-Sender: padgett@gdi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 18:46:34 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Padgett 0sirius Subject: Re: Handheld O-Scope In-Reply-To: <36E01BD2.3928@pacbell.net> References: <199903050447.VAA08505@user2.inficad.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Have to agree, when accurate measurements are essential, go with quality and the standards are Tek and HP. I have several Teks, all bought from surplus. 900 series is nice to carry around but a 7603 onna cart won't lie. I play with tube radios but tools are all solid state. At 10:00 AM 3/5/99 -0800, you wrote: >Any scope is better than no scope, but the rule of thumb >is that the scope BW oughta be 5X the signal of interest. A. Padgett Peterson, P.E. Cybernetic Psychophysicist Anti-Virus, Cryptographics, & Antique Radio Researcher http://www.freivald.org/~padgett/index.html mailto:padgett@gdi.net PGP 5.5 Key on request From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 19:41:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA31561 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:41:21 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA31557 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 19:41:21 -0500 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id SAA10683; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:41:21 -0600 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma010681; Fri, 5 Mar 99 18:40:58 -0600 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA14606; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 18:40:57 -0600 Message-ID: <36E07929.2CA8B5A2@arm.com> Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 18:39:05 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: electronics suppliers References: <3.0.5.32.19990305160618.007beaa0@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There's a place that specializes in surplus LCD displays, www.eio.com. Also some other surplus stuff, but mostly LCD. --steve cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu wrote: > > help .. > > someone gave me the name of an online place from whom I got > LED and LCD DPMs for something line $6.00 each. They had lots > of good stuff cheeeep! Now I can't find their address (lost their > bookmark somehow). > > I know about Newark, Digikey, Mouser, Hosfelt, MCM ... > > (you can see my automotive and electronic links at > http://www.austin.cc.tx.us./ESA/tc_auto.html ) > > thanks > Tom Cloud -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 20:40:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA32263 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:40:30 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law-f70.hotmail.com [209.185.131.133]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA32259 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:40:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 18629 invoked by uid 0); 6 Mar 1999 01:27:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990306012719.18628.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.246.130.80 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 05 Mar 1999 17:27:18 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.246.130.80] From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Which Intake Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 17:27:18 PST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There are some pretty smart people on this list and I need some help. I'm building a 434 ci twin turbo small block chevy, waste gates set at 12 psi, mild turbo cam, EFI, 8.5:1 compression and Brodix Track I heads, 215cc intake ports. It's going in a stock '81 Corvette, about 3,600 lbs. I was going to use some wildly ported Bowtie "101" heads and a matching intake, but the engine builder said the heads and intake were way too big for a streetable engine that needs lots of torque on the bottom end. He said the big ports and intake would kill throttle response in the lower (streetable) RPM range and that off idle would be clumsy. My question is then what kind of intake would anyone recommend. I want a car that is fun to drive on the street by making gobs of low end torque, but still be be able to run with the big blocks on the top end. I like the idea of using an existing EFI system as it saves me many $$ if I don't have to pay to have a manifold drilled, welded & converted to EFI, but building this right the first time is more important than saving money. I've looked at the GM TPI system, but since it was designed for a 305 ci, and runs out of breathing by 4500 RPM on a stock 305/350 small block, I figure it's way too small for 434ci. I've also considered something like the Lingenfelter(sp)and the Accel TPI systems. Most of these are suppose to be good for 5,800 RPM on a 350 SBC, and I wonder if they are big enough. Are the bigger volumes in the after market systems enough to feed a 434 engine in the low RPM range with the turbos pushing enough air through the TPI system to run the engine up to 6,500 RPM? Is there another system out there that I should consider? Thanks for your help. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 20:41:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA32310 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:41:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail@mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA32306 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 20:41:51 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle (du313-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.59]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA13816 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 17:41:49 -0800 Message-Id: <4.1.19990305174535.00afec40@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 05 Mar 1999 17:46:01 -0800 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: injector drivers In-Reply-To: <36DD9721.F2AD19D1@arm.com> References: <006301be6595$d236ece0$ab6334d1@bytedesigns.com> <36DD784C.FDAE12AA@xephic.dynip.com> <36DD870C.42E7@ibm.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes I have a very few left for emergency purposes, if you are in need send me a mail off line. Sandy At 02:10 PM 3/3/99 -0600, you wrote: >Sandy designed a driver board that is useful for injectors or ignition >coils for the efi332 project. There are probably some spares floating >around... It incorporates a 1949 for peak/hold functions but works OK >as a saturated type driver as well. > >--steve > >"Clarence L.Snyder" wrote: >> >> What is the simplest way to drive a set of ford V8 injectors from a >> digital signal ? I want something readily available (not unobtanium >> plated special parts) and inexpensive, that is simple to implement, >> test, and repair if necessary > >-- >Steve Ravet >steve.ravet@arm.com >Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. >www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 21:10:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00148 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:10:43 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00144 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:10:42 -0500 From: Dynacar@aol.com Received: from Dynacar@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id jTIQa13170 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:10:01 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <61e42422.36e08e79@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:10:01 EST To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: uego Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Some time back, a group was working on the honda sourced, NTK sensor electronics. Did it get finished? I would like to swap all the [ info/software/circuit.design LSM11 ] stuff for the NTK/Honda stuff, if it was finalised. The LSM11 stuff is mature and final - tested against Motec and Bosch LA1. Thanks Peter. From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 21:42:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA00656 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:42:14 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00652 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:42:14 -0500 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv19.3) id jRUPa16736 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:41:31 +1900 (EST) Message-ID: <1c8e0932.36e095db@aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 21:41:31 EST To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Wher to get ZIFs and EPROMs? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I just killed two memcals in one day pulling them out and putting them back in and pulling them out .......etc. Where do I get ZIF sockets and EPROMs so I can do this without ruining pins and sockets? Does anyone have any left over after buying in quantity? Would anybody be interested in some if I have to buy a minimum order's worth? Thanks for any direction, Ted From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 23:23:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01456 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:23:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01452 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:23:36 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.85]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA22717 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:23:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01be6789$84a5ee40$55633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: 90 6cyl bin Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:26:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Some time ago someone was looking for 730 type 6 cylinder bins. well if you need ID #88 (at 0008) I got a couple. Bruce From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 5 23:40:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA01689 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:40:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01685 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:40:36 -0500 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.85]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA13073 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:40:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701be678b$e44e3bc0$55633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: Subject: Re: Wher to get ZIFs and EPROMs? Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 23:43:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Tedscj@aol.com To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 9:51 PM Subject: Wher to get ZIFs and EPROMs? I'd try Digi-Key, or Newark get the ZIF with the long leads, and don't worry about getting it under the cover, if you do lots of proms accesss is the word, IMHO For used proms call Sherri at (407) 727-8817 Bruce >I just killed two memcals in one day pulling them out and putting them back in >and pulling them out .......etc. >Where do I get ZIF sockets and EPROMs so I can do this without ruining pins >and sockets? >Does anyone have any left over after buying in quantity? >Would anybody be interested in some if I have to buy a minimum order's worth? > >Thanks for any direction, >Ted > From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 6 00:52:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA02622 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:52:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from turing.une.edu.au (turing.une.edu.au [129.180.11.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA02618 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 00:52:30 -0500 Received: (from bmarsh@localhost) by turing.une.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA31256; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:52:26 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:52:26 +1100 (EST) From: Benjamin Marsh To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Miss in 87 Subaru RX In-Reply-To: <002701be678b$e44e3bc0$55633acf@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have an 1987 subaru RX with the mpfi turbo engine. The problem occurs when the engine is at normal operating temperature but not always - driving along at moderate loads and higher the car sometimes misses, backing off doesn't fix the problem and the car eventually rolls to a stop. If I wait until the car cools down sufficiently it goes again just fine - until it heats up. There is also a fair amount of fuel smoke associated with the car stopping which leads me to believe it is an ignition problem. Over the past 6 months this has happened three times. 1st I replaced the O2 sensor - problem went away. 2nd I replaced the O2 sensor - problem went away, until that evening when it happened again - I replaced spark plugs and again problem went away, that was about 6 weeks ago now it has happened again... I have a computer fault code of 33 which corresponds to a speed sensor malfunction, no other fault codes show up the SS fault shows up all the time, when the car misses though the ECS light flashes on and off - the speed sensor is still the only fault code shown. Last time it happened I had a boost gauge in the car which showed that during the miss I was getting full boost at full throttle even though the tach was showing at below 1000rpm this indicates I am still getting fuel into the engine which is going through into the exhaust and spooling the turbo. Does anybody have any idea what could possibly be causing this? BTW my local Subaru dealer has no idea - he says he has less of an idea than I do due to not having seen one of these cars before I brought it to him... Thank you for your help Ben Marsh From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 6 01:43:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA03247 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:43:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from eri.erinet.com (mail1.erinet.com [207.0.229.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA03243 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:43:28 -0500 Received: from sschaaf (dlp55.dayton.eri.net [207.90.117.56]) by eri.erinet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1.18) with SMTP id BAA15087 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 01:43:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <36E0CC85.7313@erinet.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 01:34:45 -0500 From: Scott Schaaf X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Miss in 87 Subaru RX References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have heard that in some GM trucks, if the speed sensor is disconnected, the fuel mixture will go REAL rich. I don't think that it could go rich enough to kill the car, but then again,,, who knows for SURE! May want to take a good look at the speed sensor! Good Luck, Scott.... Benjamin Marsh wrote: > > I have an 1987 subaru RX with the mpfi turbo engine. > The problem occurs when the engine is at normal operating > temperature but not always - driving along at moderate > loads and higher the car sometimes misses, backing off > doesn't fix the problem and the car eventually rolls to > a stop. If I wait until the car cools down sufficiently > it goes again just fine - until it heats up. There is also > a fair amount of fuel smoke associated with the car stopping > which leads me to believe it is an ignition problem. > > Over the past 6 months this has happened three times. > 1st I replaced the O2 sensor - problem went away. > 2nd I replaced the O2 sensor - problem went away, until > that evening when it happened again - I replaced spark plugs > and again problem went away, that was about 6 weeks ago > now it has happened again... > > I have a computer fault code of 33 which corresponds to > a speed sensor malfunction, no other fault codes show up > the SS fault shows up all the time, when the car misses though > the ECS light flashes on and off - the speed sensor is still the > only fault code shown. Last time it happened I had a boost gauge > in the car which showed that during the miss I was getting full > boost at full throttle even though the tach was showing at below > 1000rpm this indicates I am still getting fuel into the engine > which is going through into the exhaust and spooling the turbo. > > Does anybody have any idea what could possibly be causing this? > > BTW my local Subaru dealer has no idea - he says he has less > of an idea than I do due to not having seen one of these cars > before I brought it to him... > > Thank you for your help > > Ben Marsh From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 6 08:55:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA05561 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:55:08 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scotty.nni.com (mail.djs.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05557 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:55:06 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.9.102]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:52:19 -0500 Message-ID: <36E15BCF.7AA@nni.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:46:07 -0800 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Voltage controller? References: <199903051915.MAA18905@user2.inficad.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu OK, finally got into this site (it can be reeeaaallll slow). This is an interesting pump. Basically, it is a solenoid driven pump. Figure a bicycle pump with a magnetic solenoid pulling back the rod, then a powerful spring returning the rod to the original position to pump. The pump stroke is run at about 50Hz. There are electronics built into the pump itself, no separate controller. According to the schematic, the input siganl is just an on/off as the water is required. They use a pressure switch. Bottom line, Dan, I don't think that you need anything else to drive this pump. It's all self-contained... BobR. Daniel Houlton wrote: > > rr wrote: > > > > I'm having some trouble following what you are saying. Can you post the > > URL for the Aqua-mist site? > > Sorry, I meant to include that but forgot. > > http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/sys1/sys1a.html#pump > > That's the paragraph where they say it's controlled by frequency. Follow > the "TECH-LINK" link at the end of the paragraph to get to the pump specs. > > > It sounds like the pump itself has some sort of controller built in, > > that needs another controller to run? > > That's the way it sounds. Reading the paragraph more closely, it does > state that it uses an on-board electronic controller. > > The "TECH" page says "pressure and delivery rate is regulated by internal > hi-tech electronic circuitry". Then the specs at the bottom say it takes > a 14V, 8A power source and a 0-12V, 5mA digital signal. Maybe it does > just take a 0-12V voltage signal and convert it to PWM internally? That's > kinda what it's starting to look like again. > > The word "digital" on the spec for the signal input is what made me think > is used a PWM signal. Maybe it's just a buzz-word or marketing thing to > make it sound fancier and it just uses a plain analog voltage signal? > > thanks > --Dan From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 6 08:55:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA05567 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:55:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from scotty.nni.com (mail.djs.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA05563 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:55:15 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.9.102]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 08:52:28 -0500 Message-ID: <36E15D1E.302A@nni.com> Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:51:42 -0800 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Wher to get ZIFs and EPROMs? References: <1c8e0932.36e095db@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've a bunch of EPROMS that I'll sell: NMC27C256Q-250 These are National Semiconductor 256's, CMOS, quartz windows, at 250ns access. They are pulls that I purchased from Astro Marketing. If these will do, $1 @ plus ship. I have 30 that I can sell. I'm posting this so that maybe someone can help as to the access time, I don't know if these are correct for Ted's application. Nationals Web site has all the programming algo's for their EPROMS. BobR. Tedscj@aol.com wrote: > > I just killed two memcals in one day pulling them out and putting them back in > and pulling them out .......etc. > Where do I get ZIF sockets and EPROMs so I can do this without ruining pins > and sockets? > Does anyone have any left over after buying in quantity? > Would anybody be interested in some if I have to buy a minimum order's worth? > > Thanks for any direction, > Ted From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 6 09:37:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06228 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:37:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from mx02.together.net (mx02.together.net [204.97.120.62]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06224 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:37:22 -0500 Received: from ezra (dial-175-tnt-btvt-02.ramp.together.net [209.91.2.175]) by mx02.together.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA30408 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:37:20 -0500 Message-ID: <000901be67df$31b3fdc0$8e2cfea9@ezra> From: "Ezra Hall" To: Subject: DME EPROM Editor Software Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 09:39:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Folks, Check out the following URL: http://www.bonnevillemotorwerks.com/dmeedit.html I downloaded the demo software, and was able to view EPROM data from my Motronic unit. The demo software doesn't allow saving of data. I have sent a request for pricing info. Enjoy! Ezra Hall From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 6 11:54:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from mail@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07356 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:54:01 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: esl.eng.ohio-state.edu: mail set sender to owner-diy_efi using -f Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07351 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:54:00 -0500 Received: from gderian (dialcust-166.ts4.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.166]) by users.qual.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA15809 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:53:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008501be67f1$8a1eb4c0$a601d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: Subject: Re: aluminum intake cosmetics (Sand Blasting) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 11:50:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I plumb an old car A/C condenser in the air line. For painting cars, I put a bag of ice on it. It condenses all the liquid water out of the air. The two separators I have fill up quickly. Gary Derian >Let me second Jim's comment. Keep the sand Dry! I had a lot >of problems with my pressurized sandblaster clogging. It was >caused by moisture in the compressed air.