From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 14:53:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA29732 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:53:05 -0400 Received: from rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu (rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu [169.237.126.246]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29727 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:53:03 -0400 Received: from pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (pko@pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu [169.237.126.225]) by rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA28528 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (8.6.12) id LAA07208; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:51:45 -0700 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:51:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Ko To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Haltech, MSD, 13B-REW Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a set of baffling problems which I would like to ask this list. But let me start by describing my setup and some assumptions. I have a rx7 rotary engine, 13B-REW, setup with a Haltech E6A management system. I am using the stock factory rx7 magnetic trigger pickups on the E-shaft. Two MSD "signal stabilizers" are used, one for the home magnetic pickup and one for the synchro. These "signal stabilizers" changes the output of the magnetic pickup to a square-wave, which is the only input the E6A can use. All three coils at fired by MSD spark boxes, one for each coil. The MSD spark boxes are fired thru the white wire directly from the Haltech ignition output. Settings on Haltech: Both input triggers: rising Ignition output: rising Output constant duty: 30% trigger pickup 67 degrees BTC multitooth 24 tooth offset 5 Problem: I cannot get the timing light to fire at the timing mark on the pulley wheel. I means the ignition is off, way off. The mark is ~45 degrees before where it should be. Strange thing with the rotary engine is that it still runs even if the timing is way off. The car runs but inconsistently with misfires. Assumptions: 1. I am assuming the inductive pickup on the timing gun is correct. I've read somewhere that the inductive pickups on timing guns has problems reading a coil fired by a MSD spark box. 2. The MSD spark boxes fire from a rising edge thru the white wire. I assumed this because the testing procedure for testing spark on the box is to ground the white wire and release it and the coil fires instantaneously on the release. 3. The MSD 8509 signal stabilizer is getting and outputing the correct signals. The instructions which came with this MSD 8509 is a joke. I am assuming the 8509 inputs a rising magnetic trigger wave, ie, a sine wave with a fall, rise, fall signal where the trigger point is at the rise. The problem may be that the mazda signal is a falling wave, ie, rise, fall, rise signal where the trigger point is at the fall. I've tried reversing these leads to the 8509 and still the timing gun is still ~40 degrees off the mark. So which one is right, because the engine runs either way the leads are hooked up. I assumed the 8509 outputs a rising square-wave because thats what the unit is originally designed for, to fire a MSD spark box directly. 4. I am assuming the setting on the Haltech timing numbers is right. Those numbers are supposed to be off another running 13B-REW. However, I don't want to change these numbers until I know the correct setup of the 8509 and MSD spark box triggers. Thanks, your help is greatly appreciated. Paul Ko pko@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~pko Formula SAE UCDavis Team Captain http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~fsae From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 15:29:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA32762 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:29:18 -0400 Received: from problem.problem.org (gateway.problem.org [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA32758 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:29:15 -0400 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m10VKRh-000025C; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:26:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Subject: Re: Torque measurement To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:26:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: from "Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com" at Apr 8, 99 01:09:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Since the motor mounts are connected to the block , you need to rotate the > block to compress the load cell not the crank. > The hardest part with this method is figuring out the scale in foot pounds. > Usually load cells are calibrated with certified weights hung from a known > length, usually a 1 foot long bar, hence 'foot- pound' I don't know how you > could calculate the moment of movement that the block would place on the > load cell. I would guess if you bolted a 1 foot bar on the engine at the > center line of the crank and placed a 1 pound weight on the end of the bar, > you would be able to calibrate the load cell out put for 1 foot Lb. Of > course you would > want to cal it to 300 ft.Lbs or what you think the engine would put out. If > you use a 2 foot bar then 1 pound on the end would apply a force of 2 foot > Lbs. This would save some cal weight. Your idea is excellent and should > give some good results. Another way to read the torque would be to connect a > load cell to the block about where the front freeze plug is, and the other > end to the frame. This will make a solid motor mount that might damage the > Trans case if you torque it to hard. You might want to try this using the > same cal procedure, and if it works go to the mount system. except the bar has weight better to place it vertical and use a scale to get the weight required a 5" bar and 80 lbs pull would be 400 ft lbs Clive From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 16:03:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA03173 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:03:02 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com ([216.32.180.111]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03170 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:03:00 -0400 Received: (qmail 12984 invoked by uid 65534); 8 Apr 1999 20:01:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990408200129.12983.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.18.199.196] From: "N T" To: References: Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:01:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gosh the 460 [actually a 7.5] is a little bit much for a "light" car! :) Sure would be fun to drive though. The constant replacement of melted tires would get expensive . Why not consider a 351? The 351 is a bit more durable than a 302, and the last time I drove a 351 I sure noticed quite a bit more low end than a 302. ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Ford To: diyefi Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 11:53 AM Subject: 302 or 460 build up > Hi All; > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. > I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car > Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) > > what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 will > be closer to 400hp) > > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 16:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA03821 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:13:27 -0400 Received: from pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca (pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca [129.128.5.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA03815 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:13:25 -0400 Received: from gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca (gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca [129.128.98.18]) by pilsener.ucs.ualberta.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21829 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (mbeaubie@localhost) by gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA86420 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:12:24 -0600 Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:12:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Matt Beaubien X-Sender: mbeaubie@gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Engine load vs RPM and torque In-Reply-To: <199904080900.FAA18539@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg, > >I'd like to be able to input the weights of the piston and rod, and the > >torque value to obtain their loadings. Most people will tell you the largest > >loads are seen on the exhuast stroke at TDC, > > This is in tension--- > > but that doesn't explain why > >those turbo Honda's start bending rods at 10 psi... > > This is instability under compressive loading (column failure. I realize the difference, even though my first year statics course was 5 years ago ;-). What I'm getting at is most references say that the tension loads are so much greater that you don't have to worry about the compressive loads. Not so when artificial aspiration or severe knock is encountered. > Aluminium is not good for SUSTAINED high revs because of no fixed endurance > limit in tension. Drag racers sure can get away with a lot that OEM's or even oval/road racers can't. Are you uncomfortable driving cars with Al suspension pieces due to no endurance limit...? Matt Beaubien mbeaubie@ualberta.ca 3 x 510 1 x 300ZXT From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 16:29:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA06054 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:29:58 -0400 Received: from quandary.hal.com (quandary.hal.com [148.57.5.50]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06050 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:29:56 -0400 Received: from fiat.hal.com (fiat.hal.com [148.57.73.131]) by quandary.hal.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA19835; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:28:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (stuart@localhost) by fiat.hal.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA23638; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:28:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: fiat.hal.com: stuart owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:28:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Stuart Hastings To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 In-Reply-To: <199904080900.FAA18539@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm interested in improving the performance of my boat. The boat engine is a 1988-model Chevy 4.3L V6, with a 2bbl carburetor. This is an early 4.3L V6, with no balance shaft, and no roller tappets. Outboard Marine Corp, my engines' "marinizer," rated it at 175 crankshaft HP or 160 propshaft HP. (Current practice is to rate boat engine HP at the prop.) OMC also offered this engine with a 4bbl carburetor, and claimed 205 crankshaft HP for it. I checked with OMC, and the carb/intake is the ONLY difference between these engines. OMC has confirmed that the 4bbl setup will add 30HP to my engine. (I recall compression as 8.4:1(?unsure), and OMC specifies 89 octane gas.) My particular engine has about 220 hours, and seems to have been well cared-for; compression is still about 165psi in all cylinders. I've done some preliminary queries, and discovered I can buy a used 4bbl carburetor + manifold for about $350, plus shipping and miscellaneous expenses (gaskets, carb rebuild kit, new throttle linkage). Probably $450 total by the time I'm done. I'm thinking if a lousy carburetor is so expensive, what about using EFI? I scanned the DIY-EFI archives for 4.3L, and discovered the preferred 4.3L EFI is the extremely rare SFI used on the Syclone, and the almost-as-good second-best is the CIS (one injector, six ports). However, the CIS system seems to have an aluminum intake manifold, so I don't think I can use it without the added expense of "fresh-water" cooling. Volvo and MerCruiser sell V6 engines with TBI EFI, but these are much newer and rarer than 4bbls, so I haven't even bothered asking about junked ones. If you're not a boater, please understand that most cheap boats use low-pressure lake water for cooling, and ignore the consequent slow digestion of the iron block. Really. In the Real World, most boat engines die of neglect long before they rust away anyway. A side-effect of "raw-water" cooled engines is their use of very-low-temperature thermostats; since the cooling water is almost unpressurized, a 160F thermostat lessens the likelihood of steam bubbles and burned valves. Another unique boat engine problem is the exhaust. Most marinized car engines have water-jacketed exhaust manifolds, because anything as hot as an exhaust manifold is a fire hazard on a boat. I think this means that an EGO is pretty much out of the question on a boat engine, but I presume most EFI systems can be made to run OK open-loop if I'm not concerned about absolute maximum performance. Most sterndrive systems exhaust underwater through the propeller hub because a) it's cool and safe, b) it's quiet, c) water flow will vacuum exhaust from the engine while running at speed. I don't think the boat exhaust system is a significant restriction for this V6 engine; does anyone on the list know otherwise? I presume that adding an aluminum CIS intake manifold to my raw-water-cooled engine will turn it into a giant battery :-) with accellerated galvanic corrosion. It's possible to fit these engines with a (misnamed) "fresh-water cooling" system, consisting of a heat exchanger, extra plumbing, automotive coolant, and a 180F thermostat, but that's another $300-$500 investment. The higher running temperature is good for combustion efficiency, oil life, and engine durability, but many such boat engines will require an oil cooler too (still more $$). This is all a little extravagant for a motor that runs about 50 hours per year in fresh (non-salt) water. I don't know what the Syclone/SFI manifold is made of, but I presume it's rare enough in junkyards that it's not a realistic candidate. That brings me to TBI. I gather (from reading the DIY-EFI archives &etc) that balance-shaft V6 TBI systems are fairly common (read "cheap") in junkyards; they were used in El Caminos, Caprices, and Astros. I haven't actually seen one, so I don't know if the intake manifold is Aluminum or Iron. Said donor vehicles probably all have balance shafts underneath their intake manifolds, and roller camshafts for reduced friction. However, I see no reason why a balance shaft manifold won't fit my ... "unbalanced" :-) V6 block and heads. Alas, the existing GM roller tappets won't fit in my block; if I really wanted a roller cam, the easiest route would be to marinize a "Vortec" engine myself. I'll guess there are a few V6 aftermarket roller cams, and I'll guess they're pretty expensive too. In the long run, it would probably be more cost-effective to trade for a newer boat. Currently-offered V6 sterndrives (MerCruiser & Volvo) are still Chevy V6s with balance shafts, roller cams, 9.4:1 compression, and 2bbl/4bbl/TBI fuel systems, and are rated at 190/205/210 propshaft HP when turning 4400/4600/4600 RPM. Assuming the 15HP crank-to-prop overhead in my own sterndrive, this would suggest approximately 205/220/225 crankshaft HP for these modern marinized V6s. For compaison, the 1988 non-balance-shaft V6s had 2bbl/4bbl intakes, and were rated at 175/205 crankshaft HP when turning 4400/4600 RPM. It also suggests the roller cam and newer heads ("Vortec"?) of the modern engines are worth 30HP all by themselves. The MerCruiser TBI system claims to have a "water cooled fuel system"; I don't know what that is, or why it's necessary on a boat (where under-hood temps are probably much cooler than a typical car). Does anyone know what this is, and why it's necessary (IMHO, Mercury wouldn't fit this if it wasn't *absolutely* necessary). I'll interject something about my own capabilities here. I'm a programmer by trade, and while it sounds fun to disassemble ROMs and tweak BL tables with a laptop while under way, I don't have time for such a big project. EFI for my boat is only feasible if I can get a stock system from a junked car that will tolerate the marine environment and "bolt-up" readily. Ideally, I'd like to buy a complete system from one donor car, including distributor, intake, TBI, computer, sensors, and fuel pump. I can probably deal with some throttle bracket fabrication, new fuel lines, and I think I can add a fuel pump to my boat's gas tank. However, if an EFI project gets any bigger, I can't handle it at this stage of my life (I have four kids, oldest is 8; they are why I have the boat :-). Since the point of this project is to increase HP, there's no point in pursuing it unless the generic GM TBI system would supply 200+ crankshaft HP from my unbalanced, non-roller-cam V6. 1. Are GM 4.3L V6 TBI systems capable of 200+ HP? 2. Is the GM 4.3L V6 TBI manifold made of Aluminum or Iron (or Plastic?). 3. I presume the standard TBI in-tank pump needs some baffling; what *exactly* is required? Can I swipe the tank-wall fitting (probably steel) from a TBI car and modify it for my boats aluminum gas tank? 4. Automotive carburetors typically vent bowl fumes externally. Marine carbs vent bowl fumes into the carb intake (above the butterflys), so fumes don't collect in the bilge and explode. I presume that a properly-installed TBI system won't leak gas or fumes into the bilge. Correct? 5. My Prestolite non-electronic "marine" distributor has fine metal screening glued over the bottom vent holes. Can I "marinize" an electronic TBI distributor by duplicating this screening? A distributorless system elegantly avoids this, but then I presume I need the flywheel pickup that may or may not fit my heavy, clutchless marine flywheel. And my marine bellhousing probably doesn't have any provision for a crank sensor either. 6. Are there any blatant misconceptions in my thinking, outlined above? 7. If an appropriate TBI system exists (cheap, powerful, marine-compatible), what donor cars should I look for? 8. Would I be smarter to grit my teeth and buy a used 4bbl for $450? 9. Would I be smarter yet to forget the whole project, because the existing 2bbl works fine, and an additional 30HP (17%) won't improve the boat's performance by very much ;-) ? My research so far has been a few Fuel Injection books, and the DIY-EFI archives, and the DIY-EFI stuff is much more useful. I'm very impressed with the depth of the technical discussions on this list; thus far, the price of my research has been inversely proportional to its value :-) . Thanks in advance, stuart hastings stuart@hastings.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 16:59:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA07682 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:59:22 -0400 Received: from canyon.stratos.net (canyon.stratos.net [209.117.223.62]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA07678 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:59:19 -0400 Received: from jimyeagley (as5300-6-52.clv.stratos.net [207.87.125.180]) by canyon.stratos.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21369 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a701be8200$c6995120$0100a8c0@jimyeagley> From: "Jim Yeagley" To: Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:45:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Pat, I wouldn't expect a whole lot of torque from the 302. It's got a pretty short stroke, 3" I think, and short stroke motors are typically made for high revving, upper rpm horsepower. Not to say you can't get low end from it, but it would not be cost effective. The 460 spells torque. If you want to stick with the Windsor engine family(302), why not go with a 351W? It's pretty much a stroked 302, slightly taller and wider, but most 302 bracketry will bolt right up. Plus, considering the popularity of the 5.0l Mustang, go fast goodies are plentiful. Jim Yeagley 1996 Dodge Indy Ram See it and many others at: www.indyram.org 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) webmaster@indyram.org jimyeagley@stratos.net -----Original Message----- >Hi All; > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) > >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 will >be closer to 400hp) From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 17:00:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA07711 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:00:15 -0400 Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (web131.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.174]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA07707 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:00:14 -0400 Message-ID: <19990408210004.4633.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [209.192.7.51] by web131.yahoomail.com; Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:00:04 PDT Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:00:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Grandi Subject: Re: Ceramic turbocharger info source?? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike The listing I have for CT-20 turbos does'nt tell me which ones are ceramic or not. Hope this helps,most of these are Japanese only cars: All Toyota 85 Corolla 85 Corolla Diesel 85,86,87 4 Runner 85 Crown 85 Pickup 86,87 Camry 88 4X2 and 4x4 88 Sport Truck Also check out the Japanese Lexus SC300, they made a twin turbo version of this inline motor for Japan only that had 2 ceramic turbos.. Good luck! --- ECMnut@aol.com wrote: > Andre, > please give me some details on the CT-20.. I have an EFI project > that could benifit from it. What engines/cars was it in? > All I can find are CT-26's > TIA > Mike V > > In a message dated 4/7/99 5:21:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ferrariformulauno@yahoo.com writes: > > > All the toyota CT-20/26's that I have seen and rebuilt were with steel > > shafts. We used to > > make a T3 fit in a Toyota turbo since you cannot buy individual components > > from Toyota. They > > === Andre _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 18:06:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA08852 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:06:52 -0400 Received: from firewall.ceco.com (firewall-user@firewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08849 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:06:50 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by firewall.ceco.com; id RAA21435; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:05:49 -0500 Received: from cccntcon01.ceco.com(130.197.125.232) by firewall.ceco.com via smap (V4.2) id xma021070; Thu, 8 Apr 99 17:05:21 -0500 Received: by cccntcon01.ceco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2KVVTP4S>; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:05:36 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Torque measurement Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:05:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You are correct. I should have said make the bar 2 foot long, drill a hole dead center,bolt it center line with the crank, then hang the weight on the end in the direction of torque reaction.That way the bar weight is balanced and does not affect the over all torque. > -----Original Message----- > From: Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 > [SMTP:clive@problem.tantech.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 2:27 PM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Torque measurement > > > > > Since the motor mounts are connected to the block , you need to rotate > the > > block to compress the load cell not the crank. > > The hardest part with this method is figuring out the scale in foot > pounds. > > Usually load cells are calibrated with certified weights hung from a > known > > length, usually a 1 foot long bar, hence 'foot- pound' I don't know how > you > > could calculate the moment of movement that the block would place on the > > load cell. I would guess if you bolted a 1 foot bar on the engine at the > > center line of the crank and placed a 1 pound weight on the end of the > bar, > > you would be able to calibrate the load cell out put for 1 foot Lb. Of > > course you would > > want to cal it to 300 ft.Lbs or what you think the engine would put out. > If > > you use a 2 foot bar then 1 pound on the end would apply a force of 2 > foot > > Lbs. This would save some cal weight. Your idea is excellent and > should > > give some good results. Another way to read the torque would be to > connect a > > load cell to the block about where the front freeze plug is, and the > other > > end to the frame. This will make a solid motor mount that might damage > the > > Trans case if you torque it to hard. You might want to try this using > the > > same cal procedure, and if it works go to the mount system. > > > except the bar has weight > better to place it vertical and use a scale to get the weight required > a 5" bar and 80 lbs pull would be 400 ft lbs > > Clive From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 19:26:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA10071 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:26:31 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA10068 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:26:30 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA04621 for mail_from ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:25:26 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:24:55 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: Torque measurement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Since the motor mounts are connected to the block , you need to rotate the >block to compress the load cell not the crank. >The hardest part with this method is figuring out the scale in foot pounds. >Usually load cells are calibrated with certified weights hung from a known >length, usually a 1 foot long bar, hence 'foot- pound' I don't know how you >could calculate the moment of movement that the block would place on the >load cell. I would guess if you bolted a 1 foot bar on the engine at the >center line of the crank and placed a 1 pound weight on the end of the bar, >you would be able to calibrate the load cell out put for 1 foot Lb. Of >course you would >want to cal it to 300 ft.Lbs or what you think the engine would put out. If >you use a 2 foot bar then 1 pound on the end would apply a force of 2 foot >Lbs. This would save some cal weight. Your idea is excellent and should >give some good results. Another way to read the torque would be to connect a >load cell to the block about where the front freeze plug is, and the other >end to the frame. This will make a solid motor mount that might damage the >Trans case if you torque it to hard. You might want to try this using the >same cal procedure, and if it works go to the mount system. > >Don > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ord Millar [SMTP:ord@aei.ca] >> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:49 AM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Torque measurement >> >> I have some strain guages that I was thinking of attaching to my motor >> mounts, the idea being to measure the torque output of the engine. I want >> to calibrate it by imobilizing the crank relative to the block, and then >> using a torque wrench to apply a know torque in the oposite direction at >> the >> crank pulley bolt. >> >> Is there a reason why this won't work? It seems too easy... Well--you would be measuring the torque output of the TRANSMISSION, not the engine--so you would need to calibrate the thing a fair amount higher for the low gears. Look at the engine-tranny package as a black box to visualize why this is so. And calibrating with a bar stuck through the output yoke, with the tranny in gear, might be a lot easier approach. Greg >> >> From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 20:09:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA10686 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:09:15 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA10683 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:09:14 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p3.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.3]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA05886 for mail_from ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:08:10 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:07:38 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Engine load vs RPM and torque Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Greg, > >> >I'd like to be able to input the weights of the piston and rod, and the >> >torque value to obtain their loadings. Most people will tell you the largest >> >loads are seen on the exhuast stroke at TDC, >> >> This is in tension--- >> >> but that doesn't explain why >> >those turbo Honda's start bending rods at 10 psi... >> >> This is instability under compressive loading (column failure. > >I realize the difference, even though my first year statics course was 5 >years ago ;-). What I'm getting at is most references say that the tension >loads are so much greater that you don't have to worry about the compressive >loads. Not so when artificial aspiration or severe knock is encountered. > >> Aluminium is not good for SUSTAINED high revs because of no fixed endurance >> limit in tension. > >Drag racers sure can get away with a lot that OEM's or even oval/road racers >can't. Are you uncomfortable driving cars with Al suspension pieces due to >no endurance limit...? > YES!! Also uncomfortable on ski lifts that use cast aluminium balancer arms between sheaves on their towers!! Use a Ti alloy if weight is that big an issue!! (Nothing beats cubic $$$$$!!) Forged Al is OK in cyclic compressive loading (like a full floating wheel hub), but, as much as I like the forged (6061 alloy) Alcoa wheels, even they crack quite a lot in the wrong kind of service! Regards, Greg >Matt Beaubien >mbeaubie@ualberta.ca >3 x 510 >1 x 300ZXT From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 20:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11116 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:39:07 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11108 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:38:55 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-229.ts5.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.229]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA16004 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ed01be8221$0f57da60$7301d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: Subject: Re: Engine load vs RPM and torque Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:42:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Inertia forces at TDC and BDC are easily calculated with a little trig. Gas pressure forces can be calculated by knowing compression and temperature rise. Also, knowing power, BMEP can be calculated and an indicator diagram inferred. It is generally accepted that maximum pressure occurs at 12 deg ATDC. Gary Derian > Hi all, > > This is a little off charter but is still related somewhat (especially to > those with artificial aspiration.) > > I'm looking for some software or code (Matlab, Working Model etc...) that > will allow me to calculate the loads seen by the piston, rod, etc for > various torque/speed combinations. For instance, is it better to make 100 HP > using 15 psi of boost at 5500 rpm or 100 HP at 6500 RPM using 7 psi of > boost... > > I'd like to be able to input the weights of the piston and rod, and the > torque value to obtain their loadings. Most people will tell you the largest > loads are seen on the exhuast stroke at TDC, but that doesn't explain why > those turbo Honda's start bending rods at 10 psi... > > I have a small single cyl that I'm going to be putting a blower on. In it's > current configuration, the factory tells me additional revs will seriously > comprimise reliability. OK, but with the blower, what is the ideal speed for > my desired HP? > > Repond off list if you feel compelled. Thanks. > > > Matt Beaubien > mbeaubie@ualberta.ca > 3 x 510 > 1 x 300ZXT From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 20:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11117 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:39:07 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11109 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:38:56 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-229.ts5.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.229]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA16014 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ee01be8221$0feeea40$7301d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <00a701be8200$c6995120$0100a8c0@jimyeagley> Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:55:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu How light? I think a 460 will imbalance the car and spin tires at will. It won't make the car faster, unless light means 4500 lb. Gary Derian > > > >Hi All; > > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. > >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car > >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) > > > >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 will > >be closer to 400hp) > From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 20:38:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA11105 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:38:55 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA11101 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:38:44 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-229.ts5.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.229]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA15995 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:37:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ec01be8221$0e8e6fe0$7301d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: Subject: Re: Torque measurement Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 19:39:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To apply a pure torque, use a T-handle. Pull up on one side and push down on the other. Otherwise the force of the weight is also applied to the engine. Gary Derian Subject: Re: Torque measurement > > > except the bar has weight > better to place it vertical and use a scale to get the weight required > a 5" bar and 80 lbs pull would be 400 ft lbs > > Clive From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 21:14:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11838 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:14:32 -0400 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11834 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:14:31 -0400 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jUYWa18494 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <594c86eb.243eadf0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:12:16 EDT Subject: Re: Engine load vs RPM and torque To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/8/99 8:11:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bearbvd@sni.net writes: > as much as I like the forged (6061 alloy) Alcoa wheels, even > they crack quite a lot in the wrong kind of service! > > Regards, Greg > Well, I just HAVE to put my $.02 in! When I was in the Army, we used two different types of wheels on our M60 based tanks, steel and alum. The steel wheels would bend frequently and need to be replaced when convenient, but the aluminum wheels ... they were constantly BREAKING and of course required immediate replacement if you didn't want to drive around on your hubs. I have not been too fond of aluminum wheels ever since, no matter how 'faddish' they may be. ESPECIALLY on trucks. I mean, what's the point? Is the few pounds you save really going to help the handling with a live axle suspension? But then most people with trucks (SUVs) these days won't ever see a dirt road, much less off-road, anyway. But the idea of alum. wheels on a truck is stupid if you ask me. Ted From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 21:16:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11897 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:16:21 -0400 Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11892 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:16:18 -0400 Received: from ordchris (ppp-111-199.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.111.199]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA28491 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:15:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00fd01be8225$f200eba0$126f6bcf@ordchris> From: "Ord Millar" To: Subject: Re: Torque measurement Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:11:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >> Since the motor mounts are connected to the block , you need to rotate the >> block to compress the load cell not the crank. My "plan" was to prevent the crank from rotating relative to the block, then apply torque to the crank, and thus to the block. Other than the fact that my torque wrench is only good to +/- 2% or so, is there a problem with that? >> The hardest part with this method is figuring out the scale in foot pounds. >> Usually load cells are calibrated with certified weights hung from a known >> length, usually a 1 foot long bar, hence 'foot- pound' I don't know how you >> could calculate the moment of movement that the block would place on the >> load cell. I would guess if you bolted a 1 foot bar on the engine at the >> center line of the crank and placed a 1 pound weight on the end of the bar, >> you would be able to calibrate the load cell out put for 1 foot Lb. Of >> course you would >> want to cal it to 300 ft.Lbs or what you think the engine would put out. If >> you use a 2 foot bar then 1 pound on the end would apply a force of 2 foot >> Lbs. This would save some cal weight. Your idea is excellent and should >> give some good results. Another way to read the torque would be to connect a >> load cell to the block about where the front freeze plug is, and the other >> end to the frame. This will make a solid motor mount that might damage the >> Trans case if you torque it to hard. You might want to try this using the >> same cal procedure, and if it works go to the mount system. > I think it would be extremely difficult to get a 2" long bar in the engine bay with weights hanging on it, because there is not a lot of room. > >except the bar has weight >better to place it vertical and use a scale to get the weight required >a 5" bar and 80 lbs pull would be 400 ft lbs > That could work if I remove the hood. I will try to glue one of the guages onto the mount, or onto the nut that holds a mount, and see what kind of noise I get when the engine is running. Calibration might be moot. From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 21:18:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA11983 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:18:03 -0400 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11980 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:18:02 -0400 From: KD6JDJ@aol.com Received: from KD6JDJ@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jBIFa27562 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <93164f70.243eadeb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:12:11 EDT Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gary Derian > > > >Hi All; > > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. > >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car > >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) > > > >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 will > >be closer to 400hp) > Gary I want to cast my vote for a well built 302 rather than either a 351 or 460. A -- The 460 is too big and heavy for any light street car. B -- The 351 is heavier and taller than the 302, and will get you about 17 percent more HP than the 302. C -- The Windsor 351 heads can be installed on the 302. The block can be redrilled to accept the larger 351 stud diameter. D -- You can get a cam to provide you with the 'torque at RPM' that want. I bet that a stock cam , slightly advanced , will get you as much low RPM torque as any street machine you will ever try to impress. Just my 2 cents worth Jerry From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 21:47:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA12474 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:47:13 -0400 Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12471 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:47:12 -0400 Received: from default - 208.255.42.190 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 18:45:40 -0700 Message-ID: <006e01be822a$da350e20$be2affd0@default> From: "David" To: Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:46:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greetings, I have to agree on the 351. Look at the December 1998 issue of Hot Rod and see the FI unit they built. I would love to have this in my Lincoln. David -----Original Message----- From: KD6JDJ@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:26 PM Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up |Gary Derian |> |> |> >Hi All; |> > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. |> >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car |> >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) |> > |> >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 |will |> >be closer to 400hp) |> | | Gary | I want to cast my vote for a well built 302 rather than either a 351 or 460. | A -- The 460 is too big and heavy for any light street car. | B -- The 351 is heavier and taller than the 302, and will get you about 17 |percent more HP than the 302. | C -- The Windsor 351 heads can be installed on the 302. The block can be |redrilled to accept the larger 351 stud diameter. | D -- You can get a cam to provide you with the 'torque at RPM' that want. I |bet that a stock cam , slightly advanced , will get you as much low RPM |torque as any street machine you will ever try to impress. | | Just my 2 cents worth Jerry | | From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 22:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA12802 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:07:26 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA12799 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:07:25 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-97.mtco.com [206.69.130.97]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA21276 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:06:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <370D60FB.286AAA0A@mtco.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:07:55 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Engine load vs RPM and torque References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Matt Beaubien wrote: > Greg, > > > >I'd like to be able to input the weights of the piston and rod, and the > > >torque value to obtain their loadings. Most people will tell you the largest > > >loads are seen on the exhuast stroke at TDC, > > > > This is in tension--- > > > > but that doesn't explain why > > >those turbo Honda's start bending rods at 10 psi... > > > > This is instability under compressive loading (column failure. > > I realize the difference, even though my first year statics course was 5 > years ago ;-). What I'm getting at is most references say that the tension > loads are so much greater that you don't have to worry about the compressive > loads. Not so when artificial aspiration or severe knock is encountered. > > > Aluminium is not good for SUSTAINED high revs because of no fixed endurance > > limit in tension. > > Drag racers sure can get away with a lot that OEM's or even oval/road racers > can't. Are you uncomfortable driving cars with Al suspension pieces due to > no endurance limit...? I had a 440 Dodge that ate rod bearings over 7500 rpm. One rod came out bent in a half moon shape, so short that the piston skirt was banging on the crank throws, with 55 psi at idle. I also took many pieces of piston skirt out of a running turbo motor after detonating. One set of full grove main bearings looked like they were heated until putty like, then squeezed out by the crank. My point is that rod failure can be caused by overloading the bearings... maybe the Honda just doesn't have enough bearing surface area or crank diameter to handle the power. Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 22:25:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA13071 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:25:06 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13068 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:25:05 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-97.mtco.com [206.69.130.97]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA16840 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:24:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <370D651F.CB35C8A2@mtco.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:25:35 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Pat Ford wrote: > Hi All; > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. > I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car > Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) > > what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 will > be closer to 400hp) If you want something with "fear factor", go for a 512ci or so (stroked 460), 502ci FBC or 500ci HEMI. It keeps the women and children off the streets. Raise the hood, start the motor, and crack the throttle - most people will run for cover. If you want a sleeper, the 302 blower/turbo motors are lots of fun in a light car, but the whistle/whine gives them away. 302 on a bottle is cheap, quiet, and could be a money maker if they don't see the NOx bottle. One of my personal favorites is an old 390 FE with dual quads, tell 'em it's a 427 and you won't have to run anybody. The other is the 412ci 351 Windsor stroker. Tell 'em it's a 302, they'll think it's a 351 because of the deep sound. Just get a good set of heads and don't win by more than a car length. Last but not least is the 300ci 4"x4" 6 popper. it takes a lot of head work (you can use cut up 351 heads) but it makes torque in spades and is almost indestructable. Every UPS truck in the country has one. And they are reasonably light. I love to be different. Put a T04B on that!!!! Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 22:31:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA13205 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:31:34 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13201 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:31:32 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-97.mtco.com [206.69.130.97]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA22156 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:30:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <370D66A3.F0DF772F@mtco.com> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 21:32:03 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Stuart Hastings wrote: > I'm interested in improving the performance of my boat. > > > I presume that adding an aluminum CIS intake manifold to my > raw-water-cooled engine will turn it into a giant battery :-) with > accellerated galvanic corrosion. Have the manifold HPC coated inside and out ! TomS From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 22:48:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA13515 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:48:37 -0400 Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13512 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:48:35 -0400 Received: from ordchris (ppp-111-199.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.111.199]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA13985 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <017101be8232$d9acaaa0$126f6bcf@ordchris> From: "Ord Millar" To: Subject: Re: Torque measurement Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:43:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 10:30 PM Subject: RE: Torque measurement > >Well--you would be measuring the torque output of the TRANSMISSION, not the >engine--so you would need to calibrate the thing a fair amount higher for >the low gears. Look at the engine-tranny package as a black box to >visualize why this is so. And calibrating with a bar stuck through the >output yoke, with the tranny in gear, might be a lot easier approach. > >Greg Hmmmm(n). I uderstand what you are saying, but if the transmission is in neutral, and I open the throttle, the engine rotates oposite to the crank direction. There is no output from the transmission... Is this just the energy that is being stored in the flywheel causing this oposite reaction, or am I more lost than I think? Ord From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 22:59:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA13789 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:59:46 -0400 Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA13785 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:59:45 -0400 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jBDMa12394 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:56:49 EDT Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Stuart, the Syclone & later vortec truck 4.3's had aluminum intakes. You can have'em coated though. Also, the Syclone/Typhoon V6 is MPFI, not SFI. It fires all 6 injectors at once. For a port injection setup, you could use an intake manifold and fuel injector hardware from a 93-99? 4.3 H.O. V6 which was a popular option in the S-trucks. It has nice long torquey runners.. The EMC used in Syclones was the 87-90 turbo sunbird (1227749) unit. Can we talk you into a blower or a turbo? The chip already exists.. 8-) HTH Mike V > I'm thinking if a lousy carburetor is so expensive, what about using EFI? > I scanned the DIY-EFI archives for 4.3L, and discovered the preferred 4.3L > EFI is the extremely rare SFI used on the Syclone, and the almost-as-good > second-best is the CIS (one injector, six ports). However, the CIS system > seems to have an aluminum intake manifold, so I don't think I can use it > without the added expense of "fresh-water" cooling. Volvo and MerCruiser > sell V6 engines with TBI EFI, but these are much newer and rarer than > 4bbls, so I haven't even bothered asking about junked ones. From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 8 23:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA14302 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:26:30 -0400 Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA14299 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:26:29 -0400 Received: from pft101.rh.psu.edu (209-122-219-22.s276.tnt1.atn.pa.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.219.22]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA22995 for ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:32:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990408233400.006b70dc@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: pxtx@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 23:34:00 -0400 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Paul Tholey Subject: parts parts parts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Okay fellas, I have been getting re-settled cause I changed ISP. I have beel wheelin' and dealin' with you guys for some time. There are a few loose ends I need to tie up. I beleive I owe a couple of people some wire pigtails. You know who you are, so drop me a line so we can square. For the rest of the list. I am still pulling from my local U-Pull-It yard. Most of the cars are everyday stuff up to 1992. A while back I grabbed bunch of 730 ecm's and harnesses cause I needed money for a trip to Bike Week. Thanks so much for the support. I ended up running out of time before I filled everyones orders. Gosh. This sounds like I could go into business. Anyways, if anyone still wants me to look for parts, I will. This gives me an excuse to stay at the yard all week, and look for the ever elusive 749! The deal remains, 730 ecm are going for $35, and harnesses are $100. I do on occasion run into some TBI SBC trucks. Sorry guys, no TPI and the sort. I know the 727 ecm is getting popular but I don't have any yet. The best I can do is make a list of orders and send the stuff as I get it. Thanks again, Paul Tholey From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 00:14:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15400 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:14:24 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15395 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:14:21 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 00:15:44 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.16] by grolen.com id 1801.wrk; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:12:00 EDT Message-ID: <370D7C58.1B2C61A1@grolen.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 00:04:40 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Stuart Hastings wrote: > > I'm interested in improving the performance of my boat. > > Most marinized car > engines have water-jacketed exhaust manifolds, because anything as hot as > an exhaust manifold is a fire hazard on a boat. I think this means that an > EGO is pretty much out of the question on a boat engine, Mount your sensor in the exhaust crossover of the intake. I gather (from reading the DIY-EFI archives &etc) that > balance-shaft V6 TBI systems are fairly common (read "cheap") in > junkyards; they were used in El Caminos, Caprices, and Astros. I haven't > actually seen one, so I don't know if the intake manifold is Aluminum or > Iron. Aluminum. >Said donor vehicles probably all have balance shafts underneath > their intake manifolds, and roller camshafts for reduced friction. Worked on an early "Marinized" 4.3, roughly 88 vintage. Had aftermarket roller cam installed by Mercruiser. > I'll interject something about my own capabilities here. I'm a programmer > by trade, and while it sounds fun to disassemble ROMs and tweak BL tables > with a laptop while under way, I don't have time for such a big project. > EFI for my boat is only feasible if I can get a stock system from a junked > car that will tolerate the marine environment and "bolt-up" readily. > Ideally, I'd like to buy a complete system from one donor car, including > distributor, intake, TBI, computer, sensors, and fuel pump. I can > probably deal with some throttle bracket fabrication, new fuel lines, and > I think I can add a fuel pump to my boat's gas tank. However, if an EFI > project gets any bigger, I can't handle it at this stage of my life (I > have four kids, oldest is 8; they are why I have the boat :-). Marine Holley system an option? > I presume that a > properly-installed TBI system won't leak gas or fumes into the bilge. > Correct? EFI systems need a vapor handling system. If hot fuel circulates back to the tank, you get vapor build up. Putting the return line close to the tank may cure this problem, but may allow vapors to form in the TB supply system. > > 5. My Prestolite non-electronic "marine" distributor has fine metal > screening glued over the bottom vent holes. Can I "marinize" an electronic > TBI distributor by duplicating this screening? A distributorless system > elegantly avoids this, but then I presume I need the flywheel pickup that > may or may not fit my heavy, clutchless marine flywheel. And my marine > bellhousing probably doesn't have any provision for a crank sensor either. > GM TBI as used on the 4.3 uses the distributor for the reference signal, not a crank sensor > 6. Are there any blatant misconceptions in my thinking, outlined above? > > 7. If an appropriate TBI system exists (cheap, powerful, > marine-compatible), what donor cars should I look for? Pickups, S-10, Astro vans are the best choices IMHO. Again, is aftermarket an option? > > 8. Would I be smarter to grit my teeth and buy a used 4bbl for $450? Ummm.. Do you really enjoy making changes to a working system? > > 9. Would I be smarter yet to forget the whole project, because the > existing 2bbl works fine, and an additional 30HP (17%) won't improve the > boat's performance by very much ;-) ? Depends on your willingness to invest time, and your level of patience if things don't work out as planned. > > My research so far has been a few Fuel Injection books, and the DIY-EFI > archives, and the DIY-EFI stuff is much more useful. I'm very impressed > with the depth of the technical discussions on this list; thus far, the > price of my research has been inversely proportional to its value :-) . > Somewhere around here there's an address to send donations. ; ) > Thanks in advance, You're welcome. Shannen > > stuart hastings > stuart@hastings.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 00:48:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA15974 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:48:00 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA15970 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:47:59 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p5.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.5]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA14782 for mail_from ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:46:53 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:46:23 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Engine load vs RPM and torque Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >In a message dated 4/8/99 8:11:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bearbvd@sni.net >writes: > >> as much as I like the forged (6061 alloy) Alcoa wheels, even >> they crack quite a lot in the wrong kind of service! >> >> Regards, Greg >> > >Well, I just HAVE to put my $.02 in! >When I was in the Army, we used two different types of wheels on our M60 >based tanks, steel and alum. The steel wheels would bend frequently and need >to be replaced when convenient, but the aluminum wheels ... they were >constantly BREAKING and of course required immediate replacement if you >didn't want to drive around on your hubs. >I have not been too fond of aluminum wheels ever since, no matter how >'faddish' they may be. ESPECIALLY on trucks. I mean, what's the point? Is >the few pounds you save really going to help the handling with a live axle >suspension? But then most people with trucks (SUVs) these days won't ever >see a dirt road, much less off-road, anyway. But the idea of alum. wheels on >a truck is stupid if you ask me. On a semi truck, Alcoas can increase payload over 1000 lbs.!! That translates to $$$, not better handling. They do also run a lot truer, thus increasing tire life, and suspension parts life--which means more $$$$. These are proven facts in big time fleet use--Even with replacing the cracked ones, they PAY for themselves rather handsomely!!! Another factor with 24.5" wheels is the much lower polar moment of the Alcoas, which helps fuel economy a tad. The thing that brings on cracks in the Alcoas is lots of tight, slow turns with a loaded truck. Straight down the interstate, they last almost indefinitely. Fuel tankers going over Loveland Pass (no hazardous loads through the tunnels under the divide on I-70) eat up Alcoas at an impressive rate because of all the hairpin turns. Greg > >Ted From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 02:57:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA17988 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:57:50 -0400 Received: from pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca (pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA17985 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:57:49 -0400 Received: by pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 8825674E.00255CEB ; Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:48:06 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <8825674E.00255BCC.00@pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:48:02 -0700 Subject: RE: Halp Diamond Star Motoring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All Thanks to David, Bruce and Mike as well as others for help with the 2.0 mitsibushi.. Prob was a broken exhaust cam.. Cam sensor is driven off intake cam broken halfway to be exact.. Well hope is not an interference engine.. Oh yes went to trade show today.. The auto xray guy showed me their new up grade for the autoxray which will do both domestic and foreign OBD11.. Price for the upgrade is 199$ can and 47 for cable. I will believe when I get it. :peter From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 09:08:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21227 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:08:01 -0400 Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21224 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:07:59 -0400 Received: from mihmp ([152.11.20.200]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA406F for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:07:51 -0400 Message-ID: <001101be8289$9f083c00$c8140b98@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> From: "David A. Cooley" To: Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:05:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Mount your sensor in the exhaust crossover of the intake. > Is there enough flow there to get a good steady reading? From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 09:07:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21221 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:07:52 -0400 Received: from firewall8.cummins.com (firewall-user@[205.230.25.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21218 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:07:50 -0400 Received: by firewall8.cummins.com; id IAA18717; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:06:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from unknown(143.222.15.21) by firewall8.cummins.com via smap (4.1) id xma018670; Fri, 9 Apr 99 08:06:12 -0500 Received: from blitzen.eeg.cummins.com by ceco1.cummins.com (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) id AA24799; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:06:12 -0500 Received: from comet.eeg.cummins.com by blitzen.eeg.cummins.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id IAA11439; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:06:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from cummins.com by comet.eeg.cummins.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id IAA12684; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:06:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <370DFB42.A63CED1B@cummins.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:06:10 -0500 From: Matt S Bower X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Torque measurement References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > > > > > Since the motor mounts are connected to the block , you need to rotate the > > block to compress the load cell not the crank. > > The hardest part with this method is figuring out the scale in foot pounds. > > Usually load cells are calibrated with certified weights hung from a known > > length, usually a 1 foot long bar, hence 'foot- pound' I don't know how you > > could calculate the moment of movement that the block would place on the > > load cell. I would guess if you bolted a 1 foot bar on the engine at the > > center line of the crank and placed a 1 pound weight on the end of the bar, > > you would be able to calibrate the load cell out put for 1 foot Lb. Of > > course you would > > want to cal it to 300 ft.Lbs or what you think the engine would put out. If > > you use a 2 foot bar then 1 pound on the end would apply a force of 2 foot > > Lbs. This would save some cal weight. Your idea is excellent and should > > give some good results. Another way to read the torque would be to connect a > > load cell to the block about where the front freeze plug is, and the other > > end to the frame. This will make a solid motor mount that might damage the > > Trans case if you torque it to hard. You might want to try this using the > > same cal procedure, and if it works go to the mount system. > > except the bar has weight > better to place it vertical and use a scale to get the weight required > a 5" bar and 80 lbs pull would be 400 ft lbs > > Clive Not if he puts an Identical bar on the other side. That is how we calibrate load cells on dyno's in our test cells. we have mounts on the dyno and we have bars that fit into them on each side at centerline of the shaft. The two bars are equal length and weight so that they counter each other and put you back to zero. Than we add the weight. Our bars, since we have the room, are to put us four feet from center so that we use 25lb weights to calibrate every 100ftlbs. We have used this method for years. Matt From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 09:11:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21326 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:11:22 -0400 Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA21323 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:11:21 -0400 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA01234; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:10:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:10:35 -0400 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, Stuart Hastings wrote: > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:28:51 -0700 (PDT) > From: Stuart Hastings > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 > > I'm interested in improving the performance of my boat. > > The boat engine is a 1988-model Chevy 4.3L V6, with a 2bbl carburetor. > This is an early 4.3L V6, with no balance shaft, and no roller tappets. > Outboard Marine Corp, my engines' "marinizer," rated it at 175 crankshaft > HP or 160 propshaft HP. (Current practice is to rate boat engine HP at the > prop.) OMC also offered this engine with a 4bbl carburetor, and claimed > 205 crankshaft HP for it. I checked with OMC, and the carb/intake is the > ONLY difference between these engines. OMC has confirmed that the 4bbl > setup will add 30HP to my engine. (I recall compression as > 8.4:1(?unsure), and OMC specifies 89 octane gas.) My particular engine has > about 220 hours, and seems to have been well cared-for; compression is > still about 165psi in all cylinders. > > I've done some preliminary queries, and discovered I can buy a used 4bbl > carburetor + manifold for about $350, plus shipping and miscellaneous > expenses (gaskets, carb rebuild kit, new throttle linkage). Probably $450 > total by the time I'm done. by boat standards that is cheap > die of neglect long before they rust away anyway. A side-effect of > "raw-water" cooled engines is their use of very-low-temperature > thermostats; since the cooling water is almost unpressurized, a 160F > thermostat lessens the likelihood of steam bubbles and burned valves. any warmer and you start getting mineral deposits > > Another unique boat engine problem is the exhaust. Most marinized car > engines have water-jacketed exhaust manifolds, because anything as hot as > an exhaust manifold is a fire hazard on a boat. I think this means that an > EGO is pretty much out of the question on a boat engine, but I presume on a 5.7 magnum I worked on on of the runners was un jacketed for about 4" and an o2 sensor > > I presume that adding an aluminum CIS intake manifold to my > raw-water-cooled engine will turn it into a giant battery :-) with > accellerated galvanic corrosion. you can get away with al and fe if you add a zinc anode > It's possible to fit these engines with > a (misnamed) "fresh-water cooling" system, consisting of a heat > exchanger, extra plumbing, automotive coolant, and a 180F thermostat, but > that's another $300-$500 investment. The higher running temperature is > good for combustion efficiency, oil life, and engine durability, but many > such boat engines will require an oil cooler too (still more $$). This is > all a little extravagant for a motor that runs about 50 hours per year in > fresh (non-salt) water. it also extends the boating season > > Since the point of this project is to increase HP, there's no point in > pursuing it unless the generic GM TBI system would supply 200+ crankshaft > HP from my unbalanced, non-roller-cam V6. > > 1. Are GM 4.3L V6 TBI systems capable of 200+ HP? > > 2. Is the GM 4.3L V6 TBI manifold made of Aluminum or Iron (or Plastic?). > > 3. I presume the standard TBI in-tank pump needs some baffling; what > *exactly* is required? Can I swipe the tank-wall fitting (probably steel) > from a TBI car and modify it for my boats aluminum gas tank? how deep is the tank if it is tall you can get away with a fuel fitting down low on the back > > 4. Automotive carburetors typically vent bowl fumes externally. Marine > carbs vent bowl fumes into the carb intake (above the butterflys), so > fumes don't collect in the bilge and explode. I presume that a > properly-installed TBI system won't leak gas or fumes into the bilge. > Correct? yeap > > 5. My Prestolite non-electronic "marine" distributor has fine metal > screening glued over the bottom vent holes. Can I "marinize" an electronic > TBI distributor by duplicating this screening? A distributorless system > elegantly avoids this, but then I presume I need the flywheel pickup that > may or may not fit my heavy, clutchless marine flywheel. And my marine > bellhousing probably doesn't have any provision for a crank sensor either. that screen is a flame arrestor, if you have an explosive bulge something else is more likely to spark the bang > > 6. Are there any blatant misconceptions in my thinking, outlined above? > > 7. If an appropriate TBI system exists (cheap, powerful, > marine-compatible), what donor cars should I look for? > > 8. Would I be smarter to grit my teeth and buy a used 4bbl for $450? > > 9. Would I be smarter yet to forget the whole project, because the > existing 2bbl works fine, and an additional 30HP (17%) won't improve the > boat's performance by very much ;-) ? can you get to hull speed? once at hull speed it takes huge power to get any real speed increase ( I don't remember the exact # but it was something along the line of %40 more power for %10 more speed) the added power would help getting a skier up > > My research so far has been a few Fuel Injection books, and the DIY-EFI > archives, and the DIY-EFI stuff is much more useful. I'm very impressed > with the depth of the technical discussions on this list; thus far, the > price of my research has been inversely proportional to its value :-) . > > Thanks in advance, > > stuart hastings > stuart@hastings.org > > > > > > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 09:37:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA21816 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:37:50 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com ([216.32.180.107]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA21813 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:37:48 -0400 Received: (qmail 92012 invoked by uid 65534); 9 Apr 1999 13:36:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990409133610.92011.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [207.18.199.124] From: "N T" To: References: <00a701be8200$c6995120$0100a8c0@jimyeagley> Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:35:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The 302 is a 4 inch bore with a 3" stroke. They are really not built for high RPMs. Once you get them over about 3700 RPMs they start to sound like they'd rather be at 2500. Torque is fairly good. You'll probably see 275-300 ft/lbs at around 2300-2600 RPMs. I drive an F-150 w/ the 302 and it does quite fast. For a pretty bulky truck, it goes quite fast. The stock camshaft of the 302 is quite good for low end.. Is not suited to high RPMs though. The 351 likes low RPMs even more and high RPMs even less. The nice thing about the 302's is how commonplace they are. ALOT of people consider them ford's best product, and as Jim was mentioning, the "go-fast" goodies for mustangs bolt up easily. Now who could resist forced induction ?! Even a Supercharger is commonly available and easy to install. I'd definitly say the 302 is a great engine. I'd also agree with the posts saying the 460 is just toooo much. Unless you consider a full size pickup truck light (i dunno, maybe you drive a freightliner usualy?!) light, you're probably going to want a good shortblock engine. Dont forget the 302/351 can be cam-swapped,etc and you'll get the torque where you want it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Yeagley To: Sent: Thursday, April 08, 1999 3:45 PM Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up > Pat, > > I wouldn't expect a whole lot of torque from the 302. It's got a pretty > short stroke, 3" I think, and short stroke motors are typically made for > high revving, upper rpm horsepower. Not to say you can't get low end from > it, but it would not be cost effective. > > The 460 spells torque. If you want to stick with the Windsor engine > family(302), why not go with a 351W? It's pretty much a stroked 302, > slightly taller and wider, but most 302 bracketry will bolt right up. Plus, > considering the popularity of the 5.0l Mustang, go fast goodies are > plentiful. > > Jim Yeagley > 1996 Dodge Indy Ram > See it and many others at: www.indyram.org > 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) > webmaster@indyram.org > jimyeagley@stratos.net > > -----Original Message----- > > > >Hi All; > > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. > >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car > >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) > > > >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 will > >be closer to 400hp) > > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 10:01:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22438 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:01:23 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22435 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:01:21 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16326 for mail_from ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:00:08 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 07:59:39 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu HI-- Did anybody say a Clevor yet?? (351W block with 351C heads of the 2 barrel persuasion.) >Greetings, >I have to agree on the 351. Look at the December 1998 issue of Hot Rod and >see the FI unit they built. > >I would love to have this in my Lincoln. > >David >-----Original Message----- >From: KD6JDJ@aol.com >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:26 PM >Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up > > >|Gary Derian >|> >|> >|> >Hi All; >|> > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. >|> >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car >|> >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) >|> > >|> >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 >|will >|> >be closer to 400hp) >|> >| >| Gary >| I want to cast my vote for a well built 302 rather than either a 351 or >460. >| A -- The 460 is too big and heavy for any light street car. >| B -- The 351 is heavier and taller than the 302, and will get you about >17 >|percent more HP than the 302. >| C -- The Windsor 351 heads can be installed on the 302. The block can be >|redrilled to accept the larger 351 stud diameter. >| D -- You can get a cam to provide you with the 'torque at RPM' that want. >I >|bet that a stock cam , slightly advanced , will get you as much low RPM >|torque as any street machine you will ever try to impress. >| >| Just my 2 cents worth Jerry >| >| From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 10:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA22692 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:08:51 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22687 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:08:49 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16742 for mail_from ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:07:41 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 08:07:11 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Torque measurement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >-----Original Message----- >From: Greg Hermann >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 10:30 PM >Subject: RE: Torque measurement > > > > >> >>Well--you would be measuring the torque output of the TRANSMISSION, not the >>engine--so you would need to calibrate the thing a fair amount higher for >>the low gears. Look at the engine-tranny package as a black box to >>visualize why this is so. And calibrating with a bar stuck through the >>output yoke, with the tranny in gear, might be a lot easier approach. >> >>Greg > > >Hmmmm(n). I uderstand what you are saying, but if the transmission is in >neutral, and I open the throttle, the engine rotates oposite to the crank >direction. There is no output from the transmission... Is this just the >energy that is being stored in the flywheel causing this oposite reaction, >or am I more lost than I think? > >Ord Yep--in the situation you describe, it is the reaction to the rotational inertia of the ratating assembly that makes the engine rock. Greg From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 10:27:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA23079 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:27:24 -0400 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23076 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:27:23 -0400 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (MOT-ftpbox 1.0) with ESMTP id JAA00790 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:26:15 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from pcmail1.csg.mot.com (PCMAIL1.csg.mot.com [144.188.23.22]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with SMTP id JAA09093 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:26:14 -0500 (CDT)] Received: from pcmail.css.mot.com (telematics.css.mot.com [144.186.137.10]) by pcmail1.csg.mot.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA04326 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:26:11 -0500 Message-ID: <370E0DB3.BE0C77C@pcmail.css.mot.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:24:52 -0500 From: Thomas Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: MAF Sensor Question References: <199904070900.FAA22594@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Has anyone ever worked with the differences in the MAF for a Buick 3800 "C" and the older Buick 3.8L GN or non turbo "3" engine? I would like to change over to the older MAF if I can for cost and airflow reasons. The MAF on the 3800 is the Hitachi MAF, and said to have a different frequency output than the older MAF. Is there any repair work that can be done on the MAF's? Mine gives no fault codes, but it does seem to be working incorrectly. My engine has poor power output when ambient temp is above 60 Degrees F, excellent power around 45 F, and decent when below 30F. Temp sensor and O2 have been replaced, MAT has been replaced, and nothing seems to affect it. Any ideas on replacing MAF or repairing existing MAF? Cost of the new MAF is near $300, the GN MAF is $106. Has anyone ever turbocharged a 3800? Thanks! Thomas Martin 80 Turbo Trans AM 400 Pontiac Power! 85 Cutlass Supreme Rocket 350 CCC 91 Bonneville LE 3800 Buick Power! From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 12:09:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25641 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:09:34 -0400 Received: from Tandem.com (suntan.tandem.com [192.216.221.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25638 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:09:33 -0400 Received: from exccup-conn01.mis.tandem.com (exccup-conn01.mis.tandem.com [130.252.226.231]) by Tandem.com (8.9.3/2.0.1) with ESMTP id JAA29589 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:08:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by exccup-conn01.mis.tandem.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:08:22 -0700 Message-ID: <2BAEE918EF6CD1118FA800805F57F12E026DFDF1@EXCAUS-11601> From: "Stegbauer, Michael" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Halp Diamond Star Motoring Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:08:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Peter, Unfortunately, it is an interference engine. The timing belts have a habit of breaking and taking a few (or many) valves along for the ride. Those in the know recommend changing the timing and balance belts every 30,000 miles. I've never heard of anyone breaking a cam though, so maybe you've got something else going on. After markets cams are not real popular, but they do exist so you can probably pick up a used cam on the parts trader. Though, once you start pulling parts you're likely to find out that it's not worth fixing. Good Luck, Mike -----Original Message----- From: Peter Fenske [mailto:pfenske@bcit.bc.ca] Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 1:48 AM To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Halp Diamond Star Motoring Hi All Thanks to David, Bruce and Mike as well as others for help with the 2.0 mitsibushi.. Prob was a broken exhaust cam.. Cam sensor is driven off intake cam broken halfway to be exact.. Well hope is not an interference engine.. Oh yes went to trade show today.. The auto xray guy showed me their new up grade for the autoxray which will do both domestic and foreign OBD11.. Price for the upgrade is 199$ can and 47 for cable. I will believe when I get it. :peter From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 12:13:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25683 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:13:52 -0400 Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA25680 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 12:13:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 31187 invoked from network); 9 Apr 1999 10:12:40 -0600 Received: from ts5-05.rpt.cyberhighway.net (HELO gm) (209.161.38.113) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 1999 10:12:40 -0600 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:16:35 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE8272.0C5B5F70.rmjones@cyberhighway.net> From: "M. Jones" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: marinized 4.3L (was DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:16:34 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Stuart Hastings wrote: > > I'm interested in improving the performance of my boat. (snip) Hi, Stuart-- I added an aftermarket (Holley 4D) system to my 351W-powered inboard, so I can share a few generic tidbits. Shannen Durphey suggested mounting the O2 sensor in the intake crossover. I did this, and it seems to work just fine. If I were to do it again, though, I would devise a short, unjacketed section of exhaust (externally insulated) and mount the sensor there. The Pleasure Craft Marine manifold design would make it relatively easy to fab an adapter; don't know about your OMC's. Less worry about whether or not you've done the right thing! Or don't use the sensor at all. I've run with mine disconnected and notice no discernable difference in performance. (I can't say whether or not a stock GM system will allow this; somebody else on-list surely can.) An external aftermarket TBI pump will likely work fine; mine feeds 280 hp or so with no difficulty even down to the last few gallons in the tank. I used the original pick-up which penetrates the top of the tank. (My tank is vertically mounted at the transom.) My return line is mounted at the level sender flange. Through one complete season in some very hot whether, running for hours on end I've never noticed an increase in vapor coming from the tank vent. Never had any hot-fuel problems of any type. No start problems or lean-out or anything of that sort. BTW the Coasties say that the pump is supposed to mounted on-engine or within 1 foot. As to will it be worth it, If your boat is typical you probably won't see more than a 2-5 mph top speed increase. Where you'll notice the difference is in pulling skiers up and acceleration in general. The instant starts hot and cold make it all worthwhile, IMO, even without any performance increase. I have an aluminum Edelbrock, with a zinc anode mounted in an unused water passage tap. Even without the anode, in fresh water it will take 20 years before you run into corrosion problems -- especially if your boat is trailered. HTH, Mike Jones From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 14:20:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA28312 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:20:33 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28307 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:20:32 -0400 Received: from eric ([12.64.2.78]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990409181922.CJCO855@eric> for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:19:22 +0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990409111109.00920a30@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: e.schumacher@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:17:19 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Eric Schumacher Subject: Re: Torque measurement In-Reply-To: <00a601be81c6$b7e505a0$b66f6bcf@ord-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Long ago there were some guys that bolted a linear position sensor to the fire wall (for transverse engines) and the input shaft to the top of the block. Amount of position shift of engine against mounts indicated amount of torque. Was caliblated with torque rwrench on crank end with car in high gear and front bumper against a tree. In-accuracies are due to the changes of properties of rebber when it changes temp. Lotsa luck Eric 85 GTI with VR6 Power At 10:48 AM 4/8/99 -0300, you wrote: >I have some strain guages that I was thinking of attaching to my motor >mounts, the idea being to measure the torque output of the engine. I want >to calibrate it by imobilizing the crank relative to the block, and then snip From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 14:59:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA29191 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:59:33 -0400 Received: from ristoreipas.microdata.fi (ristoreipas.microdata.fi [194.100.116.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29188 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:59:28 -0400 Received: from nts1.pcss.fi (nts1.microdata.fi [193.64.45.11]) by ristoreipas.microdata.fi (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20882 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:02:50 +0300 (EEST) Received: by nts1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:58:14 +0200 Message-ID: <6FA58B03A836D111977F0060B068FAFD0221D67F@nts1> From: Niinikoski Juha To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Mitsubishi MUT-II test connector Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:58:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know anything about Mitsubishi MUT-II test connector ? Vehicle what I am talking about is new 99 Pajero 2800 turbo diesel. Connector looks like standard OBD-II connector but having little notch at pin # 1 end. I have not yet measured anything from the connector but in the future I will do this. Pins populated at the connector and descriptions according OBD-II standard: 1 = ? 4 = chassis ground 5 = signal ground 7 = ISO K-line ? 8 = ? 12 = ? 13 = ? 14 = CAN low ? 16 = batt + Juha Niinikoski Espoo Finland From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 15:43:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30014 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:43:17 -0400 Received: from firewall.ceco.com (firewall-user@firewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA30007 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:43:14 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by firewall.ceco.com; id OAA22743; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:42:02 -0500 Received: from cccntcon01.ceco.com(130.197.125.232) by firewall.ceco.com via smap (V4.2) id xma022213; Fri, 9 Apr 99 14:41:35 -0500 Received: by cccntcon01.ceco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2KVV4BCY>; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:42:03 -0500 Message-ID: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Torque measurement Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:41:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A dyno works the same way. The rotor of the dyno is coupled to the engine under test. The dyno case is supported by trunion bearings. water is circulated between the rotor and case. The rotor tries to turn the case, and a load cell on the case reads out torque. In an engine, the crank is the rotor and the block is the case, a load cell on the block would read out torque just like a dyno does. If you want to measure off of the drive shaft an in line load cell would be needed. The cost of an in line is over $3K a tension compression load cell is around $500. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: bearbvd@sni.net [SMTP:bearbvd@sni.net] > Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 9:07 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Torque measurement > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Greg Hermann > >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 10:30 PM > >Subject: RE: Torque measurement > > > > > > > > > >> > >>Well--you would be measuring the torque output of the TRANSMISSION, not > the > >>engine--so you would need to calibrate the thing a fair amount higher > for > >>the low gears. Look at the engine-tranny package as a black box to > >>visualize why this is so. And calibrating with a bar stuck through the > >>output yoke, with the tranny in gear, might be a lot easier approach. > >> > >>Greg > > > > > >Hmmmm(n). I uderstand what you are saying, but if the transmission is in > >neutral, and I open the throttle, the engine rotates oposite to the crank > >direction. There is no output from the transmission... Is this just the > >energy that is being stored in the flywheel causing this oposite > reaction, > >or am I more lost than I think? > > > >Ord > > Yep--in the situation you describe, it is the reaction to the rotational > inertia of the ratating assembly that makes the engine rock. > > Greg > From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 15:49:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA30129 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:49:16 -0400 Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA30126 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:49:15 -0400 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jVUAa20343 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:47:26 EDT Subject: Re: Carl Summers please To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/7/99 7:39:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mpilkent@ptw.com writes: << Subj: Carl Summers please Date: 4/7/99 7:39:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: mpilkent@ptw.com (Mike Pilkenton) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu (DIY-EFI) Carl, I think I may have an old email address for you, could you please contact me off-list. I still need help with my 3.1L V6 project. Mike Pilkenton >> Hi Mike, I've been out of town and haven't been able to check the mail much and it was overloaded.......I'll contact you over the weekend.........cyall later -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 18:37:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA32388 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:37:11 -0400 Received: from www0c.netaddress.usa.net (www0c.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.32]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32385 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:37:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 18300 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Apr 1999 22:07:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990409220758.18299.qmail@www0c.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.32 by www0c via web-mailer(M3.0.0.60) on Fri Apr 9 22:07:58 GMT 1999 Date: 9 Apr 99 15:07:58 PDT From: Dean Schwartz To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Three Questions X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.0.0.60) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id SAA32386 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >From time to time members of this list have proven to have access to some great resources, and I hope you'll help me figure out three questions, 2 of them are EFI related. I have some Seimens injectors with the following numbers on the injectors, 3145 & A020. I'm trying to find out what flow these are rated. I have a pair of small block chevy heads casting number 33417369, any way to tell the chamber and port volumes from the casting number? Finally, will a TPI system fit under the hood of a '81 Corvette hood, without modifying the hood or the TPI system? Dean ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 20:10:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA01512 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:10:43 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA01509 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:10:42 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:12:13 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.12] by grolen.com id a1090.wrk; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:08:18 EDT Message-ID: <370E94B8.CEC1F24C@grolen.com> Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:00:56 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #216 References: <001101be8289$9f083c00$c8140b98@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It's been done succesfully. Might be good only for "baseline", not for moving the sensor and using an existing calibration. Also, should have put more thought into this. TBI manifolds don't have the full crossover. This would be for an "adapted" 4bbl --> TBI manifold. Shannen David A. Cooley wrote: > > > > >Mount your sensor in the exhaust crossover of the intake. > > > > Is there enough flow there to get a good steady reading? From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 21:03:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02162 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:03:09 -0400 Received: from home2.stratos.net (mail.tracside.com [209.117.220.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA02159 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:03:08 -0400 Received: from jimyeagley [209.119.15.158] by home2.stratos.net (SMTPD32-4.03) id A3027293020C; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 21:01:54 EST Message-ID: <001e01be82eb$f8a8f3a0$0100a8c0@jimyeagley> From: "Jim Yeagley" To: Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:49:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- The 302 is a 4 inch bore with a 3" stroke. They are really not built for high RPMs. Once you get them over about 3700 RPMs they start to sound like they'd rather be at 2500. Torque is fairly good. You'll probably see 275-300 ft/lbs at around 2300-2600 RPMs. I drive an F-150 w/ the 302 and it does quite fast. For a pretty bulky truck, it goes quite fast. The stock camshaft of the 302 is quite good for low end.. Is not suited to high RPMs though. ------------------- Try a different cam in your 302, then you'll realize what a short stroke motor is built for. The only reason you feel like your truck has torque is because of the gearing. My '79 302 Mustang felt like a 4 banger before 2000 rpm. Go 351 for torque or as someone mentioned the L-6 300. That 6 is one hell of a torque monster, but the 351W parts will still be cheaper! Jim Yeagley 1996 Dodge Indy Ram See it and many others at: www.indyram.org 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) webmaster@indyram.org jimyeagley@stratos.net From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 21:18:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02385 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:18:27 -0400 Received: from achilles.noc.ntua.gr (achilles.noc.ntua.gr [147.102.222.210]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02381 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:18:25 -0400 Received: from atlas.central.ntua.gr (atlas.central.ntua.gr [147.102.240.1]) by achilles.noc.ntua.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23094 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:17:11 +0300 (EET DST) Received: by atlas.central.ntua.gr with SMTP id EAA13158 ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 04:17:57 +0300 (EET_DST) From: "John Andrianakis" To: Subject: Re: TEC II Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:35:06 +0300 Message-ID: <01be8218$6fcbb640$LocalHost@john> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Are you sure about this? Too many late model european cars carry the 4 wire bosch sensor. Do you know thep art number for the LS? Thanks in advance. John Andrianakis -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: ÐÝìðôç, 8 Áðñéëßïõ 1999 11:10 ìì Subject: Re: TEC II >><> >> >>No. >> >><>UEGO is foolishness, and asking for expensive repairs!>> >> >>AND...again, I say that a standard 4-wire Bosch 0-1v EGO is fine. If it's good >>enough for a GT2 turbo 911, I think it can do the job. > > >That bosch IS the LS II WIDE BAND O2 sensor!! > >Otherwise known as a UEGO sensor. > >Greg > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 21:33:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02742 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:33:11 -0400 Received: from web105.yahoomail.com (web105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA02739 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:33:09 -0400 Message-ID: <19990410013211.28073.rocketmail@web105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by web105.yahoomail.com; Fri, 09 Apr 1999 18:32:11 PDT Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 18:32:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu OK, here's the answer. Aluminum 429/460. torque and HP in one large, light package! Andy --- Jim Yeagley wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > The 302 is a 4 inch bore with a 3" stroke. They are > really not built for > high RPMs. Once you get them over about 3700 RPMs > they start to sound like > they'd rather be at 2500. Torque is fairly good. > You'll probably see 275-300 > ft/lbs at around 2300-2600 RPMs. > > I drive an F-150 w/ the 302 and it does quite fast. > For a pretty bulky > truck, it goes quite fast. The stock camshaft of the > 302 is quite good for > low end.. Is not suited to high RPMs though. > ------------------- > > Try a different cam in your 302, then you'll realize > what a short stroke > motor is built for. The only reason you feel like > your truck has torque is > because of the gearing. My '79 302 Mustang felt > like a 4 banger before 2000 > rpm. Go 351 for torque or as someone mentioned the > L-6 300. That 6 is one > hell of a torque monster, but the 351W parts will > still be cheaper! > > Jim Yeagley > 1996 Dodge Indy Ram > See it and many others at: www.indyram.org > 1975 Pontiac Grandville Brougham Conv. (in baskets) > webmaster@indyram.org > jimyeagley@stratos.net > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 9 21:42:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA03026 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:42:34 -0400 Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA03023 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:42:33 -0400 Received: from gateway (pool-209-138-42-148.bltm.grid.net [209.138.42.148]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA23581 for ; Fri, 9 Apr 1999 21:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990409214116.007a7100@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: purrfect@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 21:41:16 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: donna habel Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The company that made the special intake to mate 351C heads on the 351W block has gone out of business. Unless you can find one at a swap meet or want to custom fab an intake this route is out. This was something folks did to pump up the power of a 351W when there wasn't any performance parts for it. Nowdays the speed parts for 351W blocks are available and relatively cheap. Bruce Habel 69 Cougar w/351W 69 Cougar w/351C - efi project wannabe 69 Cougar convertible w/nothing At 07:59 AM 4/9/1999 -0600, you wrote: >HI-- > >Did anybody say a Clevor yet?? (351W block with 351C heads of the 2 barrel >persuasion.) > >>Greetings, > >>I have to agree on the 351. Look at the December 1998 issue of Hot Rod and >>see the FI unit they built. >> >>I would love to have this in my Lincoln. >> >>David >>-----Original Message----- >>From: KD6JDJ@aol.com >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:26 PM >>Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up >> >> >>|Gary Derian >>|> >>|> >>|> >Hi All; >>|> > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. >>|> >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car >>|> >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) >>|> > >>|> >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 >>|will >>|> >be closer to 400hp) >>|> >>| >>| Gary >>| I want to cast my vote for a well built 302 rather than either a 351 or >>460. >>| A -- The 460 is too big and heavy for any light street car. >>| B -- The 351 is heavier and taller than the 302, and will get you about >>17 >>|percent more HP than the 302. >>| C -- The Windsor 351 heads can be installed on the 302. The block can be >>|redrilled to accept the larger 351 stud diameter. >>| D -- You can get a cam to provide you with the 'torque at RPM' that want. >>I >>|bet that a stock cam , slightly advanced , will get you as much low RPM >>|torque as any street machine you will ever try to impress. >>| >>| Just my 2 cents worth Jerry >>| >>| > > > From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 03:02:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA07283 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:02:35 -0400 Received: from serv1.is1.u-net.net (serv1.is1.u-net.net [195.102.240.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA07280 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:02:33 -0400 Received: from [194.119.178.152] (helo=f3.u-net.com) by serv1.is1.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.00 #2) id 10Vri8-0001oC-00; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 06:57:48 +0000 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:06:43 +0100 X-Mailer: Virtual Access by Atlantic Coast PLC, http://www.soft-shop.com Message-Id: To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, Andre Grandi Subject: Re: Ceramic turbocharger info source?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 In-Reply-To: <19990408210004.4633.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> From: Chris Wilson Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In article <19990408210004.4633.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com>, Andre Grandi apparently wrote: > Also check out the Japanese Lexus SC300, they made a twin turbo version of this > inline motor for Japan only that had 2 ceramic turbos.. > Good luck! I believe only the Lexus / Toyota Soarer 2.5 twin turbo,not the 3 litre version,had twin ceramic turbos.AFAIK the 3 litre was only made naturally aspirated,even in its home market.The wifes Jap import 2.5 *does* have twin ceramic turbos.So does my Jap import Supra.Not sure if either have CT-20 's or 26's though,thankfully they both seem OK,and haven't needed close scrutiny :-) -- Best Regards, Chris Wilson. http://www.maximum-bhp.u-net.com From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 05:45:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA08597 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:45:14 -0400 Received: from bo.nznet.gen.nz (ns1.nznet.gen.nz [203.167.232.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA08593 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 05:45:10 -0400 Received: from amiga3k (ms2-24.nznet.gen.nz [203.167.232.154]) by bo.nznet.gen.nz (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA18802 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:46:34 +1200 Date: 10 Apr 99 20:08:29 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: Re: Torque measurement To: "Eric Schumacher" In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990409111109.00920a30@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> Message-ID: <911.769T1468T12083659@geocities.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Eric Schumacher wrote: >Long ago there were some guys that bolted a linear position sensor to the >fire wall (for transverse engines) and the input shaft to the top of the >block. Amount of position shift of engine against mounts indicated amount >of torque. Was caliblated with torque rwrench on crank end with car in high >gear and front bumper against a tree. In-accuracies are due to the changes >of properties of rebber when it changes temp. Sounds good. What about putting a postion sensor on both the inner and outer CV joint (for front wheel drive engine) and measuring the twist in the driveshaft? My Mini has a 450mm by 25mm driveshaft. Anyone know rough calculations for torque v twist? The motor puts about 340 Nm on the ground (100Nm at the crank) in top gear. -- Tom Parker - tparker@geocities.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 08:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA09680 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:20:37 -0400 Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA09677 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:20:35 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp38.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.168]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id HAA02918 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:16:43 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <370F400C.2844BCB0@mwt.net> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:11:56 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up References: <3.0.1.32.19990409214116.007a7100@pop.mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There are adapter plates out there that let you use 351c heads with intake on 351w block. My race engine has them on. They still make the intake but use the adapters they are cheaper solution. Steve donna habel wrote: > The company that made the special intake to mate 351C heads on the 351W > block has gone out of business. Unless you can find one at a swap meet or > want to custom fab an intake this route is out. This was something folks > did to pump up the power of a 351W when there wasn't any performance parts > for it. Nowdays the speed parts for 351W blocks are available and > relatively cheap. > > Bruce Habel > 69 Cougar w/351W > 69 Cougar w/351C - efi project wannabe > 69 Cougar convertible w/nothing > > At 07:59 AM 4/9/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >HI-- > > > >Did anybody say a Clevor yet?? (351W block with 351C heads of the 2 barrel > >persuasion.) > > > >>Greetings, > > > >>I have to agree on the 351. Look at the December 1998 issue of Hot Rod and > >>see the FI unit they built. > >> > >>I would love to have this in my Lincoln. > >> > >>David > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: KD6JDJ@aol.com > >>To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >>Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:26 PM > >>Subject: Re: 302 or 460 build up > >> > >> > >>|Gary Derian > >>|> > >>|> > >>|> >Hi All; > >>|> > This isn't strickly efi but efi will go on it so.. > >>|> >I'm getting a 302 ( 5.0L) or a 460 (7.3L) to build for a light car > >>|> >Hp isn't what I'm after I want torque ( more fun, less tickets) > >>|> > > >>|> >what would you guys suggest for around 300hp and lotsa grunt( the 460 > >>|will > >>|> >be closer to 400hp) > >>|> > >>| > >>| Gary > >>| I want to cast my vote for a well built 302 rather than either a 351 or > >>460. > >>| A -- The 460 is too big and heavy for any light street car. > >>| B -- The 351 is heavier and taller than the 302, and will get you about > >>17 > >>|percent more HP than the 302. > >>| C -- The Windsor 351 heads can be installed on the 302. The block can be > >>|redrilled to accept the larger 351 stud diameter. > >>| D -- You can get a cam to provide you with the 'torque at RPM' that want. > >>I > >>|bet that a stock cam , slightly advanced , will get you as much low RPM > >>|torque as any street machine you will ever try to impress. > >>| > >>| Just my 2 cents worth Jerry > >>| > >>| > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 11:56:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA11598 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:56:44 -0400 Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA11595 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:56:42 -0400 Received: from 103.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.103) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sat, 10 Apr 1999 08:57:38 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: 302 vs 460 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:52 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <37116fcb.4216923@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What type vehicle are you using? With less than the weight of a fat lady separating the two and much of that compensatible by moving the battery to the trunk, aluminum intake and headers - contrary to popular opinion it aint gonna matter much. Size - it's not that much bigger - go measure one. Performance. When you are into massive overkill on a 302, you are about a good street buildup on a 385. If RPM is your thing, stick a 370 ( 3.09") crank in it and experience the song of power. The best aftermarket 302/351 intake flow about like a 385 exhaust - and then there is the aftermarket heads - priced about the same - and willing to take you into the stratosphere - and they be aluminum. So size is your thing - an iron SVO block will take you out to 600+ cubic inches. Aluminum to much much more. Build the torquiest 302/351 you want. Then build a 460, put a radical cam and intake on it optimized for mid upper range. The residual torque left over will still exceed that of the 320/351 and when it comes on the cam - it be all over - you can't put enough positive pressure on a 302 to catch a wound up 385. A bore and offset crank can take you over 500 cubic inches. So whine and snivel and wimp out with a sissy block. You will never experience the gut tearing rumble of a big block coming on. You will never see the fear and terror in her eyes as you blip the throttle and break traction in any gear at just about any speed. You will miss the shock of your seat breaking under rocket ship acceleration. And leaving the line in a cloud of smoke after sitting there at 600 rpm idle and smoking till your tired of it will not be one of your rewards. But it will handle a modest bit better and every Rice Rocket in town will still out handle you and make you think you need viagra. And you'll spend a lot more to get what a 385 (370/429/460) gives you with a stock rebuild. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 12:19:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA12161 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:19:38 -0400 Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12158 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:19:37 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id JAA30884; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:18:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 In-Reply-To: <37116fcb.4216923@smtp.uia.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > > Performance. When you are into massive overkill on a 302, you are about a > good street buildup on a 385. > > So whine and snivel and wimp out with a sissy block. You will never > experience the gut tearing rumble of a big block coming on. You will never > see the fear and terror in her eyes as you blip the throttle and break > traction in any gear at just about any speed. You will miss the shock of your > seat breaking under rocket ship acceleration. And leaving the line in a cloud > of smoke after sitting there at 600 rpm idle and smoking till your tired of it > will not be one of your rewards. > The experience of a big-block, light street vehicle should not be missed, IMO. It gives you the "reach" not possible with lesser combinations. Reccomended for all the above reasons... From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 13:32:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA13241 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:32:51 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA13238 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:32:49 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-101.mtco.com [206.69.130.101]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id MAA13520 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:31:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <370F8B51.758331D6@mtco.com> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:33:05 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim Davies wrote: > On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > > > > > Performance. When you are into massive overkill on a 302, you are about a > > good street buildup on a 385. > > > > So whine and snivel and wimp out with a sissy block. You will never > > experience the gut tearing rumble of a big block coming on. You will never > > see the fear and terror in her eyes as you blip the throttle and break > > traction in any gear at just about any speed. You will miss the shock of your > > seat breaking under rocket ship acceleration. And leaving the line in a cloud > > of smoke after sitting there at 600 rpm idle and smoking till your tired of it > > will not be one of your rewards. > > > The experience of a big-block, light street vehicle should not be missed, > IMO. It gives you the "reach" not possible with lesser combinations. > Reccomended for all the above reasons... I had a 482 BBC in a 2400 lb CJ5 sand digger with a powerglide and 4wd, and won Gravelrama and the spring nationals and I'm a member of the over-the-hill gang. Most of the vehicles in my class were lighter small blocks with 4 speeds which were quicker out of the hole, and that's a problem on a 300 foot sand track. The best compliment I ever got was from a competitor who said "I heard you comming and there was nothing I could do!" 4.2 sec @ 85 mph in 300 feet (20 years ago). Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 17:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15019 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:58:35 -0400 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk (mail5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.20]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15016 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:58:33 -0400 Received: from modem-85.rhenium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.37.85] helo=f3.u-net.com) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10W5kY-0007yr-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:57:14 +0100 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:02:47 +0100 X-Mailer: Virtual Access by Atlantic Coast PLC, http://www.soft-shop.com Message-Id: To: DIY_EFI Mailing List Subject: Monitoring knock sensor signals? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Chris Wilson Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a Jap import (to the UK where I live)Supra Mk IV twin turbo (1994).I'd like to monitor signals from the knock sensor,to know when a retard signal or whatever it tells the ECU to do,is occurring. Feasible ? Any ideas how ? Thanks. -- Regards, Chris Wilson http://www.f3.u-net.com From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 19:44:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA15855 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:44:55 -0400 Received: from orion.idirect.com (orion.idirect.com [207.136.80.167]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA15852 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:44:54 -0400 Received: from wsherwin (liv5-4.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.7.51]) by orion.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA66590 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003501be83c4$fd3b4060$33079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:42:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You will never >see the fear and terror in her eyes as you blip the throttle and break >traction in any gear at just about any speed. No truer words have been spoken! Of course "her" response may have other associated negative consequences on that same evening :) Go Big! Walt. From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 22:57:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA17431 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:57:31 -0400 Received: from mail.networkone.net (qmailr@mail.networkone.net [209.144.112.75]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA17428 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:57:30 -0400 Received: (qmail 2787 invoked from network); 11 Apr 1999 02:56:24 -0000 Received: from pm3-3-28.la.networkone.net (HELO salmon) (209.144.126.156) by mail.networkone.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 1999 02:56:24 -0000 From: "Mike Pilkenton" To: Subject: Re: Carl Summers please Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 19:51:11 -0700 Message-ID: <01be83c6$28185880$9c7e90d1@salmon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Carl, I remembered getting an email address change notice from someone but couldn't remember who that was. Anyway, as you can read, I'm getting close to finishing the installion portion of my conversion and will probably be ready to fire it up in a month or so. What's your schedule on working with me on this ECM project? Is it possible to meet you somewhere? Where about in the country do you live? Mike ----------------- >Hi Mike, > I've been out of town and haven't been able to check the mail much >and it was overloaded.......I'll contact you over the weekend.........cyall >later >-Carl Summers > From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 23:12:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17639 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:12:47 -0400 Received: from web125.yahoomail.com (web125.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.193]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA17636 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:12:46 -0400 Message-ID: <19990411031305.22874.rocketmail@web125.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.181.30] by web125.yahoomail.com; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:13:05 PDT Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:13:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Good reading (DIS) To: diy efi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check out http://www.motorage.com/edindex/099742.htm It explains the DIS ignition principals in good detail. Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Sat Apr 10 23:37:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA17949 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:37:43 -0400 Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17946 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:37:41 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id UAA28360 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sea-mail.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 11 Apr 1999 03:37:14 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03389373D2@sea-mail> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: is there a basic Chevy v8 list ? Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:35:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I hate to bother you guys with non-efi stuff. if anyone remembers vacuum line layouts for the Rochester 2gv (2bbl for a 73 ish 350), please email me off list. this critter has 4 and I have no idea which is which, the Rochester books I just bought are useless for this. (just in...special deal on slightly new Rochester books). thanks, Ted Stowe From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 01:32:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA19452 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:32:37 -0400 Received: from rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu (rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu [169.237.126.246]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA19449 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:32:35 -0400 Received: from pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (pko@pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu [169.237.126.225]) by rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA28521; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (8.6.12) id WAA19554; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:30:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:30:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Ko To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Trigger Signal: MSD 6A, 7AL ?? In-Reply-To: <199904090039.UAA11133@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know how the trigger signal for the MSD ignition boxes look like? This is thru the points wire (white). I assume it is a rising signal because points output a rising signal and also the testing procedure for the MSD is to ground and release the white wire, where the trigger is upon the release from ground. Thanks in advance, Paul Ko pko@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~pko Formula SAE UCDavis Team Captain http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~fsae From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 01:32:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA19448 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:32:35 -0400 Received: from rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu (rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu [169.237.126.246]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA19444 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:32:34 -0400 Received: from pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (pko@pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu [169.237.126.225]) by rosarita.engr.ucdavis.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA28521; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by pinto.engr.ucdavis.edu (8.6.12) id WAA19554; Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:30:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:30:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Ko To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Trigger Signal: MSD 6A, 7AL ?? In-Reply-To: <199904090039.UAA11133@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know how the trigger signal for the MSD ignition boxes look like? This is thru the points wire (white). I assume it is a rising signal because points output a rising signal and also the testing procedure for the MSD is to ground and release the white wire, where the trigger is upon the release from ground. Thanks in advance, Paul Ko pko@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~pko Formula SAE UCDavis Team Captain http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~fsae From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 04:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA21198 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:27:47 -0400 Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA21194 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 04:27:44 -0400 Received: from martin-new ([194.168.68.182]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990411082618.NHUJ16164.mta1-svc@martin-new> for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:26:18 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:25:53 +0100 Message-ID: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> From: Martin Easterbrook To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Monitoring knock sensor signals? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:24:41 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a unit I purchased from the UK importer of "Link" automotive electronics parts. It's called a "Knocklink" and comes in a small box with several lights on it to indicate knock severity. It T's in to the knock sensor output and doesn't affect its normal operation. I bought it from an ad in CCC about 18months ago but for one reason and another I haven't finished fitting it yet (not that it's a difficult job, I just lost interest in working on the car). I'm planning on finishing it off and fitting the "lambdalink" mixture monitor over the next couple of weeks as I've got a burst of enthusiasm again. I haven't seen ads for these parts recently, but I'll see if I can find a contact number for you somewhere. Martin mailto:martin.easterbrook@vigin.net -----Original Message----- From: Chris Wilson [SMTP:chris@f3.u-net.com] Sent: 10 April 1999 23:03 To: DIY_EFI Mailing List Subject: Monitoring knock sensor signals? I have a Jap import (to the UK where I live)Supra Mk IV twin turbo (1994).I'd like to monitor signals from the knock sensor,to know when a retard signal or whatever it tells the ECU to do,is occurring. Feasible ? Any ideas how ? Thanks. -- Regards, Chris Wilson http://www.f3.u-net.com From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 07:13:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22275 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:13:22 -0400 Received: from public.shenzhen.cngb.com (public.shenzhen.cngb.com [203.93.104.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA22270 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:12:16 -0400 Received: from zhu ([203.93.104.167]) by public.shenzhen.cngb.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA19363 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:11:36 +0900 (CDT) Message-ID: <371082EE.949451DD@public.shenzhen.cngb.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:09:34 +0800 From: zhu zhong hua X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: who know the website address of Mr.bruce bowling X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I find that Mr Bruce Bowling write the engine control program from efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. But website information of Mr. Bruce Bowling is wrong. I can't access it. Who know the website address? zhu zhong hua From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 07:32:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA22475 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:32:23 -0400 Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA22472 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:32:22 -0400 Received: from psu.edu (access-isdn1-47.bd.psu.edu [146.186.227.177]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA32154 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:30:57 -0400 Message-ID: <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 07:30:52 -0400 From: "Paul S. Draper" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: EEC-IV Modifying References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, I've recently decided that I want to switch my 1969 Mustang Twin Turbo 302 project from carb to efi. The catch is, that I want to do it as cheap as possible. This means using stock Ford EEC-IV stuff. My only problem is that I want to use Low Impedance Injectors(2.2-2.4 ohms) with an EEC that was originally designed to used High Impedance injectors (~14.50 ohms). I know that I just can't switch injectors without killing components within the EEC. I have searched through the archives and have found a little bit of information on this, but after looking at an EEC schematic I found on an FTP site, I'm a little confused. The information I read in the archives from Dan Malek stated that the Switching Transistors, Zener Diodes, and Heat sinks need to be changed. But, I didn't see any transistors used for the injectors on the schematic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong schematic? The part number on it is XSK-E7RF-3451-A1. That part number says that it's for a 1987 Ford, and by looking at the schematic it looks like it's from a Speed Density application. What do I need to switch to make this work? If anybody can help me with this I'd greatly appriciate it. Also, for those of you looking for Ford Injector Flow Ratings I have compiled a table on my site with this information. If you have anything to add, correct, or if you know where I can find more info, please let me know. The page can be found by following the the link to my site in my sig line, and clicking on the OEM fuel system components link on my front page. Thanks, Paul -- Paul S. Draper psd105@psu.edu 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 09:50:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23477 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:50:40 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23472 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:50:39 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.84]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id JAA26106 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:49:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005301be8422$3033acc0$54633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: Subject: Re: Trigger Signal: MSD 6A, 7AL ?? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:49:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Ko To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 1:30 AM Subject: Trigger Signal: MSD 6A, 7AL ?? That is correct. >From the sound of things, I'd try inverting a signal and see where the timing goes. Do you have a scope where you can look at things?. Is there anyway to eliminate some of the electronics?. Bruce > Does anyone know how the trigger signal for the MSD ignition boxes look > like? This is thru the points wire (white). I assume it is a rising > signal because points output a rising signal and also the testing > procedure for the MSD is to ground and release the white wire, where the > trigger is upon the release from ground. > > Thanks in advance, > > Paul Ko > pko@mindspring.com > http://www.mindspring.com/~pko > > Formula SAE UCDavis Team Captain > http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~fsae > > > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 09:55:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA23555 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:55:16 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA23552 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:55:15 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.84]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id JAA29986 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005901be8422$d4e84960$54633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:54:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul S. Draper To: Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 7:30 AM Subject: EEC-IV Modifying Before deciding on ecms, is there a T/C S/C ford application (perferably correct number of cylinders)?. Be a shame to do a bunch of work and find out the system doesn't see Boost. Does the ecm look for a barometric value?. I don't know about fords strategy on stuff is why I ask. Bruce > Hi all, > > I've recently decided that I want to switch my 1969 Mustang Twin Turbo 302 > project from carb to efi. The catch is, that I want to do it as cheap as > possible. This means using stock Ford EEC-IV stuff. My only problem is that I > want to use Low Impedance Injectors(2.2-2.4 ohms) with an EEC that was > originally designed to used High Impedance injectors (~14.50 ohms). I know > that I just can't switch injectors without killing components within the EEC. > I have searched through the archives and have found a little bit of information > on this, but after looking at an EEC schematic I found on an FTP site, I'm a > little confused. The information I read in the archives from Dan Malek stated > that the Switching Transistors, Zener Diodes, and Heat sinks need to be > changed. But, I didn't see any transistors used for the injectors on the > schematic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong schematic? The part number on it is > XSK-E7RF-3451-A1. That part number says that it's for a 1987 Ford, and by > looking at the schematic it looks like it's from a Speed Density application. > What do I need to switch to make this work? > > If anybody can help me with this I'd greatly appriciate it. Also, for those of > you looking for Ford Injector Flow Ratings I have compiled a table on my site > with this information. If you have anything to add, correct, or if you know > where I can find more info, please let me know. The page can be found by > following the the link to my site in my sig line, and clicking on the OEM fuel > system components link on my front page. > > Thanks, > > Paul > -- > Paul S. Draper > psd105@psu.edu > 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project > http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 11:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA24892 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:46:28 -0400 Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24889 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:46:27 -0400 Received: from psu.edu (access-isdn1-42.bd.psu.edu [146.186.227.172]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA78962 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:45:00 -0400 Message-ID: <3710C375.F914DB60@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:44:53 -0400 From: "Paul S. Draper" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> <005901be8422$d4e84960$54633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: Before deciding on ecms, is there a T/C S/C ford application (perferably > correct number of cylinders)?. > Be a shame to do a bunch of work and find out the system doesn't see Boost. > Does the ecm look for a barometric value?. > I don't know about fords strategy on stuff is why I ask. > Bruce I would be using a Mass-Air Flow Meter (senses air flow into engine) and EEC. It seems to be the best choice using Ford stuff. The T/C cars used a Vane Air Flow meter (senses air-flow), which would probably be too restrictive for my application as it only flows ~380 CFM. Also the EEC is for a 2.3L 4 cyl (using Low impedance injectors). The S/C EEC's use a MAF meter also, but they are 3.8L 6 cyl. Ford did/does use a Speed Density (senses Manifold Pressure) EEC for v8's, but it doesn't respond well to camshaft changes or any MAP value higher the Atmospheric (ie Boost). So, I figure the best way for me to go is to used Ford's MAF EEC-IV and Meter, and change what's necessary to allow me to use low impedance injectors. One idea is to pull the necessary pieces from an EEC that uses low impedance injectors, and transplant them into the EEC that I will use. I'm just looking for suggestions and some insight from people on the list who might have already done this, or know what needs to be done. Thanks, Paul -- Paul S. Draper psd105@psu.edu 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 12:41:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA25569 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:41:05 -0400 Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25566 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:41:04 -0400 Received: from [153.34.238.50] (1Cust50.tnt1.santa-ynez.ca.da.uu.net [153.34.238.50]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP for ; id LAA09829 Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:39:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904111639.LAA09829@smtp2.gte.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 09:35:54 -0700 Subject: Re: Good reading (DIS) From: "Fran and Bud" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Good reference!! Searched for more and got hits for Parts II and III but could not access the URL. Can you access them for additional post? ---------- >From: Squash >To: diy efi >Subject: Good reading (DIS) >Date: Sat, Apr 10, 1999, 8:13 PM > >Check out http://www.motorage.com/edindex/099742.htm > >It explains the DIS ignition principals in good >detail. > >Andy > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 13:08:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25788 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:08:44 -0400 Received: from sparc.brc.ubc.ca (sparc.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25785 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:08:43 -0400 Received: from koala (137.82.2.60) by sparc.brc.ubc.ca with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2.1); Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:06:48 -0700 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:06:05 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: "Paul S. Draper" cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying In-Reply-To: <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Why can't we just add a resistor in series to a low impedance injector and make it a high impedance injector? I'm missing something here, aren't I? jw From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 13:16:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25939 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:16:16 -0400 Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25936 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:16:15 -0400 Received: from psu.edu (access-isdn1-25.bd.psu.edu [146.186.227.155]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA141812; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:14:42 -0400 Message-ID: <3710D87B.7E664301@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:14:36 -0400 From: "Paul S. Draper" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: James Weiler CC: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James Weiler wrote: > Why can't we just add a resistor in series to a low impedance injector > and make it a high impedance injector? > > I'm missing something here, aren't I? > jw I wish it were that easy!!! :-) Unfortunetly, it's not. Paul -- Paul S. Draper psd105@psu.edu 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 13:44:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA26283 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:44:42 -0400 Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA26280 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:44:41 -0400 Received: from ordchris (ppp-111-96.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.111.96]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA19317 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:43:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ad01be8442$4fbac220$1b6d6bcf@ordchris> From: "Ord Millar" To: Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:14:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I know a lot of guys running EEC-IV's with boosted 302 applications, and NONE of them read boost pressure into the EEC, they either use fuel management units to increase fuel rail pressure with boost (usually 6:1 or 8:1), or else they program assuming boost vs. RPM is a table of constants. These methods seem to work OK. You could also look into the APE Speed-Brain, which connects to the standard 302-EEC IV wiring harness, but is allegedly easier to program. There is the 7.3L Turbo Diesel truck engine, I believe they used EEC-IV prior to 1995. I don't know how much help a diesel calibratipon starting point will be, however. BTW, a company called alternative auto will modify EEC-IVs for low impedance injectors, and their price seemed reasonable, so it can't be too difficult. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 10:41 AM Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Paul S. Draper >To: >Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 7:30 AM >Subject: EEC-IV Modifying > >Before deciding on ecms, is there a T/C S/C ford application (perferably >correct number of cylinders)?. >Be a shame to do a bunch of work and find out the system doesn't see Boost. >Does the ecm look for a barometric value?. >I don't know about fords strategy on stuff is why I ask. >Bruce > > >> Hi all, >> >> I've recently decided that I want to switch my 1969 Mustang Twin Turbo 302 >> project from carb to efi. The catch is, that I want to do it as cheap as >> possible. This means using stock Ford EEC-IV stuff. My only problem is >that I >> want to use Low Impedance Injectors(2.2-2.4 ohms) with an EEC that was >> originally designed to used High Impedance injectors (~14.50 ohms). I >know >> that I just can't switch injectors without killing components within the >EEC. >> I have searched through the archives and have found a little bit of >information >> on this, but after looking at an EEC schematic I found on an FTP site, I'm >a >> little confused. The information I read in the archives from Dan Malek >stated >> that the Switching Transistors, Zener Diodes, and Heat sinks need to be >> changed. But, I didn't see any transistors used for the injectors on the >> schematic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong schematic? The part number on >it is >> XSK-E7RF-3451-A1. That part number says that it's for a 1987 Ford, and by >> looking at the schematic it looks like it's from a Speed Density >application. >> What do I need to switch to make this work? >> >> If anybody can help me with this I'd greatly appriciate it. Also, for >those of >> you looking for Ford Injector Flow Ratings I have compiled a table on my >site >> with this information. If you have anything to add, correct, or if you >know >> where I can find more info, please let me know. The page can be found by >> following the the link to my site in my sig line, and clicking on the OEM >fuel >> system components link on my front page. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Paul >> -- >> Paul S. Draper >> psd105@psu.edu >> 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project >> http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 >> >> > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 14:17:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA26823 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:17:45 -0400 Received: from mercury.mv.net (root@mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA26820 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:17:43 -0400 Received: from dora (darkstar.mv.com [199.125.78.23]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with SMTP id OAA28069 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990411141108.01cc91e0@pop.mv.net> X-Sender: darkstar-ma@pop.mv.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:11:08 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: Trigger Signal: MSD 6A, 7AL ?? In-Reply-To: References: <199904090039.UAA11133@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu sounds like points, then. Points trigger on a falling current (points opening after being closed), so the MSD test would be right. (I know, it sounds backwards, but it works--a collapsing magnetic field will generate a *much* higher voltage) At 10:30 PM 4/10/99 -0700, you wrote: >Does anyone know how the trigger signal for the MSD ignition boxes look >like? This is thru the points wire (white). I assume it is a rising >signal because points output a rising signal and also the testing >procedure for the MSD is to ground and release the white wire, where the >trigger is upon the release from ground. > >Thanks in advance, > >Paul Ko >pko@mindspring.com >http://www.mindspring.com/~pko > >Formula SAE UCDavis Team Captain >http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~fsae > > > > > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 14:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27009 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:25:41 -0400 Received: from maild.telia.com (root@maild.telia.com [194.22.190.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27006 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:25:38 -0400 Received: from d1o4.telia.com (root@d1o4.telia.com [195.67.202.241]) by maild.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA28418; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:24:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from a010263808 (t2o4p25.telia.com [195.67.202.85]) by d1o4.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA21055; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:24:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006401be8448$cd41b5e0$55ca43c3@a010263808> From: "Anders Grop" To: , "James Weiler" Cc: Subject: SV: EEC-IV Modifying Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:26:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id OAA27007 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi! I know that you can buy ballast resistors (4-5ohm) from Link engine management for this purpose. How many volts are normally used with low impedance injectors(lii)? I have heard that for lii they use a high current initially to get a fast opening and then the current is lowered during the "hold" period. This is done to get a little bit more accuracy in fuel delivery compared to what you get with high imp.inj. Paul, please explain why you don´t want to use ballast resistors? Regards, Anders -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Från: Paul S. Draper Till: James Weiler Kopia: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Datum: Sunday, April 11, 1999 7:33 PM Ämne: Re: EEC-IV Modifying >James Weiler wrote: > >> Why can't we just add a resistor in series to a low impedance injector >> and make it a high impedance injector? >> >> I'm missing something here, aren't I? >> jw > >I wish it were that easy!!! :-) Unfortunetly, it's not. > >Paul >-- >Paul S. Draper >psd105@psu.edu >1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project >http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 > > > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 14:38:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27227 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:38:01 -0400 Received: from mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (mail1.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27224 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:38:00 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-61.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.61]) by mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA17809 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990411143534.00933ce0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:36:28 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying In-Reply-To: References: <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:06 AM 4/11/99 -0700, you wrote: >Why can't we just add a resistor in series to a low impedance injector >and make it a high impedance injector? > >I'm missing something here, aren't I? Yep.. That will change the overall DC resistance, but the injector will now see a reduced voltage and will be slower to open. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 14:38:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27236 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:38:10 -0400 Received: from mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (mail1.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27233 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:38:09 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-61.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.61]) by mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA17069 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990411143322.0093d100@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:35:20 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying In-Reply-To: <3710C375.F914DB60@psu.edu> References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> <005901be8422$d4e84960$54633acf@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 11:44 AM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: >I would be using a Mass-Air Flow Meter (senses air flow into engine) and EEC. >It seems to be the best choice using Ford stuff. The T/C cars used a Vane Air >Flow meter (senses air-flow), which would probably be too restrictive for my >application as it only flows ~380 CFM. Also the EEC is for a 2.3L 4 cyl (using >Low impedance injectors). The S/C EEC's use a MAF meter also, but they are >3.8L >6 cyl. Ford did/does use a Speed Density (senses Manifold Pressure) EEC for >v8's, but it doesn't respond well to camshaft changes or any MAP value higher >the Atmospheric (ie Boost). Paul, Your best bet to place this question would probably be to ther EEC mailing list... They have disassembled the EEC's and know them inside and out, are writing their own "chips", have a cheap device to go on the J3 connector and "suck" the rom out of the EEC for modification etc... They can be subscribed to at: eec-subscribe@eelink.net =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 14:41:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA27367 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:41:32 -0400 Received: from f04n01.cac.psu.edu (f04s01.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27364 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:41:31 -0400 Received: from psu.edu (access-isdn1-46.bd.psu.edu [146.186.227.176]) by f04n01.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA95090 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:40:03 -0400 Message-ID: <3710EC7A.EF5D180B@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:39:55 -0400 From: "Paul S. Draper" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying References: <01ad01be8442$4fbac220$1b6d6bcf@ordchris> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ord Millar wrote: > I know a lot of guys running EEC-IV's with boosted 302 applications, and > NONE of them read boost pressure into the EEC, they either use fuel > management units to increase fuel rail pressure with boost (usually 6:1 or > 8:1), or else they program assuming boost vs. RPM is a table of constants. > These methods seem to work OK. If you use the right size injectors, there is no reason to use a FMU. With the right size injectors, fuel pressure can be brought up by having the pressure regulator referenced to manifold pressure. > You could also look into the APE Speed-Brain, which connects to the standard > 302-EEC IV wiring harness, but is allegedly easier to program. I know someone who tried to order one of these, never recieved it, and they were beating about the bush about why they hadn't sent it after 6 weeks...Plus I don't have alot of money to dump into anything fancy, I just want to be able to run Low Impedance Injectors on a Mass Air EEC-IV. > There is the 7.3L Turbo Diesel truck engine, I believe they used EEC-IV > prior to 1995. I don't know how much help a diesel calibratipon starting > point will be, however. Prolly not much. The difference in injection style, and the fact the the engine doesn't run much over 3000 rpm...that'll prolly be the BIG problem. My engine in Naturally aspirated config pulls all the way to 6000, with a carb. > BTW, a company called alternative auto will modify EEC-IVs for low impedance > injectors, and their price seemed reasonable, so it can't be too difficult. No, it can't be difficult, that's why I want to do it myself. :-) The other problem is I don't fell like paying ~$200 and waiting 4-6 weeks for them to mod it. The other option I've seen is to buy a box that plugs in-line between the injectors and EEC that allows you to use Low Impedance Injectors. But it costs ~$200 too. The whole basis for my project is to do it as cheaply as possible. Most of the parts I'm using are stock Ford parts, that were modified by me for this project. The turbos are even off of Ford production cars, pruchased for $25 ea in perfect working order!! Paul (btw. I updated my Ford Fuel Injector page this morning, I added more injectors, P/N's, resistances, and re-organized it.) -- Paul S. Draper psd105@psu.edu 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 15:02:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27625 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:02:25 -0400 Received: from f04n01.cac.psu.edu (f04s01.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27622 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:02:24 -0400 Received: from psu.edu (access-isdn1-46.bd.psu.edu [146.186.227.176]) by f04n01.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA28142 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:00:55 -0400 Message-ID: <3710F15F.9619F19C@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:00:47 -0400 From: "Paul S. Draper" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: EEC-IV Modifying for low impedance injectors References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, I've recently decided that I want to switch my 1969 Mustang Twin Turbo 302 project from carb to efi. The catch is, that I want to do it as cheap as possible. This means using stock Ford EEC-IV stuff. My only problem is that I want to use Low Impedance Injectors(2.2-2.4 ohms) with an EEC that was originally designed to used High Impedance injectors (~16.20 ohms). I know that I just can't switch injectors without killing components within the EEC. I have searched through the dyiefi archives and have found a little bit of information on this, but after looking at an EEC schematic I found on an FTP site, I'm a little confused. The information I read in the archives from Dan Malek stated that the Switching Transistors, Zener Diodes, and Heat sinks need to be changed. But, I didn't see any transistors used for the injectors on the schematic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong schematic? The part number on it is XSK-E7RF-3451-A1. That part number says that it's for a 1987 Ford, and by looking at the schematic it looks like it's from a Speed Density application. What do I need to switch to make this work? If anybody can help me with this I'd greatly appreciate it. Also, for those of you looking for Ford Injector Flow Ratings I have compiled a table on my site with this information. If you have anything to add, correct, or if you know where I can find more info, please let me know. The page can be found by following the the link to my site in my sig line, and clicking on the OEM fuel system components link on my front page. Thanks, Paul -- Paul S. Draper psd105@psu.edu 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 15:19:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27968 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:19:27 -0400 Received: from prod1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-93.s30.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.93]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27951 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:19:15 -0400 Received: from PROD1 ([172.16.0.1]) by prod1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 2XWYHYAQ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:17:35 -0400 Message-ID: <004e01be844f$f4e56630$010010ac@prod1.xephic.dynip.com> From: "Frederic Breitwieser" To: Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying for low impedance injectors Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:17:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes Paul, most OEM ECMs designed for high impedance injectors will fry their output stages if lower impedance injectors are used... sorta the same concept as putting a 2ohm speaker on a 8 ohm stereo - have your fire extinguisher ready :) However all is not lost... I've opened two EEC's and it appears the injector drivers are nothing more than transistors... therefore these could be changed to higher current capable devices, or, its entirely acceptable to create your own cascaded output stage. I did this with a GM ECM for the same reason... Its nothing more than an inductor in parallel with the ECM output and ground, which then feeds a 1k resistor driving a large MOSFET which connects to 12V Battery, the low-impedance injector, which in turn connects to ground. This worked very well for non-peak/hold style injectors. The ECM I used was the GM 1418 Grand National ECM (Buick V6 Turbo) Hope that helped From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 15:19:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA27962 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:19:24 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA27958 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:19:23 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-11.mtco.com [206.69.130.11]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA32758 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:17:53 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3710F5C0.7C24AB3B@mtco.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:19:28 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> <005901be8422$d4e84960$54633acf@nacelp> <3710C375.F914DB60@psu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Paul S. Draper wrote: > So, I figure the best way for me to go is to used Ford's MAF EEC-IV and Meter, > and change what's necessary to allow me to use low impedance injectors. One > idea is to pull the necessary pieces from an EEC that uses low impedance > injectors, and transplant them into the EEC that I will use. I'm just looking > for suggestions and some insight from people on the list who might have already > done this, or know what needs to be done. There is a Ford site on the web somewhere that will do the conversion for you. I don't have the URL but a search should find it. You could drive the injectors with 2 EFI332 boards between the EEC-iv and the injectors. Sharpe You could do the conversion yourself with help from an EE or two. From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 15:54:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA28374 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:54:53 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28371; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:54:52 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-11.mtco.com [206.69.130.11]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA09387; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:53:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3710FE11.655D25CB@mtco.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:54:57 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Circuit boards Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? How about the glue? Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 15:55:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA28379 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:55:05 -0400 Received: from f04n01.cac.psu.edu (f04s01.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28376 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:55:04 -0400 Received: from psu.edu (access-isdn1-53.bd.psu.edu [146.186.227.183]) by f04n01.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA56232 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:53:35 -0400 Message-ID: <3710FDB3.F8616CB9@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:53:24 -0400 From: "Paul S. Draper" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying for low impedance injectors References: <004e01be844f$f4e56630$010010ac@prod1.xephic.dynip.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > Yes Paul, most OEM ECMs designed for high impedance injectors will fry their > output stages if lower impedance injectors are used... sorta the same > concept as putting a 2ohm speaker on a 8 ohm stereo - have your fire > extinguisher ready :) That's what I don't want to happen. :-) But I do have a Fire Extinguisher in my car just in case! > However all is not lost... I've opened two EEC's and it appears the injector > drivers are nothing more than transistors... That's what I've read. > therefore these could be > changed to higher current capable devices, I was thinking of making a Junk Yard trip and picking up one of each EEC, one that I want to use, and one that was designed to run Low Impedance injectors. Then either getting new transistors to match the low z eec, and installing them in the other EEC, or just swaping them. > Its nothing more than an inductor in parallel with the ECM output and > ground, which then feeds a 1k resistor driving a large MOSFET which connects > to 12V Battery, the low-impedance injector, which in turn connects to > ground. > > Hope that helped Yup, it did. Though I really should stop looking at this EEC Schematic I found...cause it has Battery Voltage,12v, going through a 390 ohm resistor in series and a .01uF cap in parallel, then into a 5 pin IC, out of the IC to a 3.6v? 5W diode in parallel, and a 1000pF cap in parallel, then to the injector then to ground. The 5 pin IC is what is confusing, or is this the MOSFET? I'm not an EE...just a ME with just enough electronics knowledge to get myself in trouble... :-) Thanks! Paul -- Paul S. Draper psd105@psu.edu 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 16:07:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA28580 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:07:53 -0400 Received: from f04n07.cac.psu.edu (f04s07.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA28577 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:07:52 -0400 Received: from psu.edu (access-isdn1-53.bd.psu.edu [146.186.227.183]) by f04n07.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA209480 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:06:23 -0400 Message-ID: <371100B4.B2BD9E41@psu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:06:13 -0400 From: "Paul S. Draper" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> <005901be8422$d4e84960$54633acf@nacelp> <3710C375.F914DB60@psu.edu> <3710F5C0.7C24AB3B@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > There is a Ford site on the web somewhere that will do the conversion for you. I > don't have the URL but a search should find it. I know who they are, just don't want to pay them to do it. :-) > You could drive the injectors with 2 > EFI332 boards between the EEC-iv and the injectors. Sharpe What's an EFI332 Board? > You could do the conversion yourself with help from an EE or two. Hey, I know a couple of those EE guys! :-) Paul -- Paul S. Draper psd105@psu.edu 1969 Mustang 302 Twin Turbo Project http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/factory/9893 From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 17:11:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA29775 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:11:51 -0400 Received: from roper.uwyo.edu (pmdf@roper.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA29772 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:11:49 -0400 Received: from asuwlink.uwyo.edu (asuwlink.uwyo.edu [129.72.10.2]) by ROPER.UWYO.EDU (PMDF V5.2-32 #33749) with ESMTP id <0FA100L0UMLXS9@ROPER.UWYO.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (cortega@localhost) by asuwlink.uwyo.edu (8.8.8/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA24819 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:05:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Christopher M Ortega Subject: Briggs and Stratton In-reply-to: <371082EE.949451DD@public.shenzhen.cngb.com> X-Sender: cortega@asuwlink To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Authentication-warning: asuwlink.uwyo.edu: cortega owned process doing -bs Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To whom it may concern, I am looking to replace a regular carbueration system on a briggs and stratton 5 HP engine with a single port fuel injection system. I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions for feedback control, LED display of RPM's, or the amplifier needed from the spark. Please respond ASAP!! Christopher Ortega From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 17:43:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA30192 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:43:11 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA30189 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:43:10 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.5] (p5.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.5]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA11630 for mail_from ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:41:39 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:41:16 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: Torque measurement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >A dyno works the same way. The rotor of the dyno is coupled to the engine >under test. The dyno case is supported by trunion bearings. water is >circulated between the rotor and case. The rotor tries to turn the case, and >a load cell on the case reads out torque. In an engine, the crank is the >rotor and the block is the case, a load cell on the block would read out >torque just like a dyno does. If you want to measure off of the drive shaft >an in line load cell would be needed. The cost of an in line is over $3K a >tension compression load cell is around $500. > Don I did NOT want to read off the driveshaft--I simply suggested CALIBRATING off of it! The torque reaction at the motor mounts is most definitely the torque reaction of the engine/transmission ASSEMBLY, the reaction to the output torque in the driveshaft, and therefore will vary with what gear the tranny is in as well as with the engine's output torque. Regards, Greg > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bearbvd@sni.net [SMTP:bearbvd@sni.net] >> Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 9:07 AM >> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re: Torque measurement >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Greg Hermann >> >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 10:30 PM >> >Subject: RE: Torque measurement >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >>Well--you would be measuring the torque output of the TRANSMISSION, not >> the >> >>engine--so you would need to calibrate the thing a fair amount higher >> for >> >>the low gears. Look at the engine-tranny package as a black box to >> >>visualize why this is so. And calibrating with a bar stuck through the >> >>output yoke, with the tranny in gear, might be a lot easier approach. >> >> >> >>Greg >> > >> > >> >Hmmmm(n). I uderstand what you are saying, but if the transmission is in >> >neutral, and I open the throttle, the engine rotates oposite to the crank >> >direction. There is no output from the transmission... Is this just the >> >energy that is being stored in the flywheel causing this oposite >> reaction, >> >or am I more lost than I think? >> > >> >Ord >> >> Yep--in the situation you describe, it is the reaction to the rotational >> inertia of the ratating assembly that makes the engine rock. >> >> Greg >> From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 18:40:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31067 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:40:20 -0400 Received: from mail.sunbeach.net (mail.admbml.com [205.214.199.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA31064 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:40:18 -0400 Received: from default [196.3.198.42] by mail.sunbeach.net (SMTPD32-4.06) id A2E42770102; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:32:04 EST Message-ID: <003201be8463$eabf8000$2ac603c4@default> From: "Pedro Haynes" To: Subject: Re: Trigger Signal: MSD 6A, 7AL ?? Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:40:27 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greetings all!!! I have my computer board all soldered now for the 5 chip BDM. I was searching for it on the site but I cannot seem to find it, What is the name of the 5 chip bdm. In addition I like to know how my circuits work, why is there a serial jack on the Computer board? Is it for down loading the program? From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 18:40:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31062 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:40:03 -0400 Received: from web105.yahoomail.com (web105.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA31059 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:40:02 -0400 Message-ID: <19990411223848.17912.rocketmail@web105.yahoomail.com> Received: from [204.95.195.97] by web105.yahoomail.com; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:38:48 PDT Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 15:38:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: Good reading (DIS) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu http://www.motorage.com/edindex/129720.htm This is part II And this is part III: http://204.243.31.38/cgi-win/csearch.exe/index.htm/4855771.000/3.qf/ma?&A=2&D0=0&Dv=0&Dg=332914&Df=17&Qv=0&K1=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2emotorage%2ecom%2fedindex%2f029826%2eHTM Don't mis-type it! Andy p.s. i was able to connect 2 it. --- Fran and Bud wrote: > Good reference!! > Searched for more and got hits for Parts II and III > but could not access the > URL. > Can you access them for additional post? > ---------- > >From: Squash > >To: diy efi > >Subject: Good reading (DIS) > >Date: Sat, Apr 10, 1999, 8:13 PM > > > > >Check out > http://www.motorage.com/edindex/099742.htm > > > >It explains the DIS ignition principals in good > >detail. > > > >Andy > > > >_________________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get your free @yahoo.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 18:42:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31140 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:42:10 -0400 Received: from mail.sunbeach.net (mail.admbml.com [205.214.199.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA31137 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:42:08 -0400 Received: from default [196.3.198.42] by mail.sunbeach.net (SMTPD32-4.06) id A35915A6006A; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:34:01 EST Message-ID: <004401be8464$30932be0$2ac603c4@default> From: "Pedro Haynes" To: Subject: Now the BDM Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:42:24 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Greetings all!!! >I have my computer board all soldered now for the 5 chip BDM. I was >searching for it on the site but I cannot seem to find it, What is the name >of the 5 chip bdm. In addition I like to know how my circuits work, why is >there a serial jack on the Computer board? Is it for down loading the >program? > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 18:48:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31328 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:48:05 -0400 Received: from mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (mail2.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31325; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:48:04 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-31.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.31]) by mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA28214; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990411183628.0098eea0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:46:31 -0400 To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Conversion suggestions... Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all, My brother has an interesting (?) project... He has a 1980 Dodge Van with a 225 slant 6. It has a Holley 1bbl carb and runs like crap. He wants to go with EFI, but doesn't want to go Port fuel injection unless there was a manifold/fuel rail made for this engine from the factory (afraid to try and cut it up!). I don't think there was, so he's going TBI. Curious what GM factory TBI setup would work for him and be close out of the box... did any of the GM trucks come with an inline 6 and TBI? Thanks, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 18:53:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA31534 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:53:28 -0400 Received: from mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA31531 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:53:27 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-31.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.31]) by mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA09526 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:51:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990411184949.0098e2b0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:51:51 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Conversion suggestions... In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990411183628.0098eea0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Think I answered part of my own question... Looking through the OTC PROM ID supplement (thru 91) it shows a 4.1L 6 in 1984 (Vin D). Used a 1226021 ECM, but no idea if it was TBI or carb'd... Also shows 4 cal's for it... AKB8233, AKC8238, AKD8246 and AMO8252 If anyone has any more info, It would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Dave At 06:46 PM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all, >My brother has an interesting (?) project... >He has a 1980 Dodge Van with a 225 slant 6. It has a Holley 1bbl carb and >runs like crap. >He wants to go with EFI, but doesn't want to go Port fuel injection unless >there was a manifold/fuel rail made for this engine from the factory >(afraid to try and cut it up!). I don't think there was, so he's going TBI. >Curious what GM factory TBI setup would work for him and be close out of >the box... did any of the GM trucks come with an inline 6 and TBI? =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 19:30:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA32106 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:30:07 -0400 Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA32103 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:30:06 -0400 Received: from soren (ppp188.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.188]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA28552 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:22:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003c01be8472$d29e9920$bc7889d0@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: Conversion suggestions... Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 16:27:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >My brother has an interesting (?) project... >He has a 1980 Dodge Van with a 225 slant 6. It has a Holley 1bbl carb and >runs like crap. >He wants to go with EFI, but doesn't want to go Port fuel injection unless >>Curious what GM factory TBI setup would work for him and be close out of >the box... did any of the GM trucks come with an inline 6 and TBI? >Thanks, >Dave Howell sells a system for a 258 Jeep I-6 that uses an ECM and throttle body from GM 4.3L V-6/5.0 L V-8 trucks. I can't think of too many reasons you couldn't get a similar foundation to work on the Dodge slant 6 with a little work. Soren Rounds From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 20:18:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA00734 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:18:56 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA00731 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:18:55 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:19:46 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.11] by grolen.com id a2071.wrk; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:16:16 EDT Message-ID: <37113986.8BEEDCCA@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:08:38 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Conversion suggestions... References: <4.1.19990411184949.0098e2b0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry, all carb'ed w/ California emissions. Any time I see a prom or ecm listing for any GM truck that's pre 1986, I suspect carb + CA. But I don't mind looking up cal id's, just in case. Shannen David A. Cooley wrote: > > Think I answered part of my own question... > Looking through the OTC PROM ID supplement (thru 91) it shows a 4.1L 6 in > 1984 (Vin D). > Used a 1226021 ECM, but no idea if it was TBI or carb'd... > Also shows 4 cal's for it... > AKB8233, AKC8238, AKD8246 and AMO8252 > > If anyone has any more info, It would be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Dave > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 21:45:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA02253 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:45:45 -0400 Received: from auemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (auemail1.lucent.com [192.11.223.161]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02250 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:45:43 -0400 Received: from nwmail.wh.lucent.com (h135-5-40-100.lucent.com [135.5.40.100]) by auemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA11006 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id VAA01447; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:28:04 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by nwmail.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4 sol2) id VAA01442; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:28:03 -0400 Message-ID: <37114B8C.AAF52F8B@lucent.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:25:32 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Circuit boards References: <3710FE11.655D25CB@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom, I socketed the flash chips on my 95 Camaro LT1 PCM. It had a clear waterproofing all over the board. This seemed to also be under the chips. I built a copper foil damn around the Flash chips, then used a heat gun to remove the surface mount Flash chips, The heat from the heat gun melted the solder and softened all the goo up so I could pull off the chips. I then cleaned up the area with repeated cleaning with alcohol. Alcohol did not really disolve it , but with scrubbing it cleaned the board up enough to allow me to solder on the sockets. Ken Tom Sharpe wrote: > > I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The > CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is > also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. > > Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? > > How about the glue? > > Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 22:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02807 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:07:33 -0400 Received: from smtp2.gte.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02803 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:07:32 -0400 Received: from [153.34.238.200] (1Cust200.tnt1.santa-ynez.ca.da.uu.net [153.34.238.200]) by smtp2.gte.net with ESMTP for ; id VAA21107 Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:05:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904120205.VAA21107@smtp2.gte.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:02:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Good reading (DIS) From: "Fran and Bud" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Got it! Thanks. Bud ---------- >From: Squash >To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: Re: Good reading (DIS) >Date: Sun, Apr 11, 1999, 3:38 PM > >http://www.motorage.com/edindex/129720.htm This is >part II > >And this is part III: > >http://204.243.31.38/cgi-win/csearch.exe/index.htm/4855771.000/3.qf/ma?&A=2 &D0=0&Dv=0 >&Dg=332914&Df=17&Qv=0&K1=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2emotorage%2ecom%2fedindex%2f029826%2eHTM > >Don't mis-type it! > >Andy >p.s. i was able to connect 2 it. > > > >--- Fran and Bud wrote: >> Good reference!! >> Searched for more and got hits for Parts II and III >> but could not access the >> URL. >> Can you access them for additional post? >> ---------- >> >From: Squash >> >To: diy efi >> >Subject: Good reading (DIS) >> >Date: Sat, Apr 10, 1999, 8:13 PM >> > >> >> >Check out >> http://www.motorage.com/edindex/099742.htm >> > >> >It explains the DIS ignition principals in good >> >detail. >> > >> >Andy >> > >> >>_________________________________________________________ >> >Do You Yahoo!? >> >Get your free @yahoo.com address at >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> > >> > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 22:10:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA02899 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:10:27 -0400 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA02896 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:10:24 -0400 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jLYZa25415 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5d340afb.2442af60@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:07:28 EDT Subject: Re: Circuit boards To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom, I think you may have answered this before, but now that you have socketed these chips, can you remove them for programming, just like eproms? Thx, Mike V > I socketed the flash chips on my 95 Camaro LT1 PCM. It had a clear > waterproofing all over the board. This seemed to also be under the chips. I > built a copper foil damn around the Flash chips, then used a heat gun to > remove > the surface mount Flash chips, The heat from the heat gun melted the solder > and > softened all the goo up so I could pull off the chips. I then cleaned up the > area with repeated cleaning with alcohol. Alcohol did not really disolve it , > > but with scrubbing it cleaned the board up enough to allow me to solder on > the > sockets. From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 23:02:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA04146 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:02:01 -0400 Received: from mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04143 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:02:00 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-165.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.165]) by mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA23701 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990411225741.00938850@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 22:58:06 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Conversion suggestions... In-Reply-To: <37113986.8BEEDCCA@grolen.com> References: <4.1.19990411184949.0098e2b0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:08 PM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: >Sorry, all carb'ed w/ California emissions. Any time I see a prom or >ecm listing for any GM truck that's pre 1986, I suspect carb + CA. >But I don't mind looking up cal id's, just in case. >Shannen Hmm... How about the 1989 Chevy R20 pickup with the 4.8L L6? =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 23:16:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA04430 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:16:07 -0400 Received: from mailhost2.attcanada.net (mailhost2.attcanada.net [206.191.82.43]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04427 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:16:06 -0400 Received: from d58-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net ([142.194.124.58]) by mailhost2.attcanada.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990412030619.FUM856@d58-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:06:19 +0000 Received: by d58-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BE8460.23FD9220@d58-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net>; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:13:26 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE8460.23FD9220@d58-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> From: Marc Piccioni To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Circuit boards Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:07:45 -0600 X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom Usually mass production PCB assembly techniques, under each part is a drop of "crazy glue" like adhesive to hold the bit in place during wavesoldeing. If you have a PCB that you don't care about try acetone to dissolve the potting compound. Usually after the pins are desoldered, a careful application of force will crack the adhesive loose. /Marc ---------- From: Tom Sharpe[SMTP:twsharpe@mtco.com] Sent: April 11, 1999 1:54 PM To: efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Circuit boards I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? How about the glue? Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AH#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S M,BYE;F``,P`0`` M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S M,BY%3D`' ``0```!,```!213H@0VER8W5I="!B;V%R9',```(!<0`!````%@`` M``&^A)&C8S^$!M'P41'2OIQ$15-4`````!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% ````` M'@`?# $````8````;7!I8V-I;VYI0&%T=&-A;F%D82YN970``P`&$%T]0F\# M``<0N@(``!X`"! !````90```%1/355354%,3%E-05-34%)/1%5#5$E/3E!# M0D%34T5-0DQ95$5#2$Y)455%4RQ53D1%4D5!0TA005)425-!1%)/4$]&(D-2 M05I91TQ512),24M%041(15-)5D543TA/3$142$4``````@$)$ $```"=`P`` MF0,``$(&``!,6D9U91M#$/\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@*P'-E=#(W M!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q,"@S02S!3%?0J BPC/"=D[ M%Y\R-34"@ <*@0VQ"V!N9S$P,R\44 L*%%$+\F,`0"!41P-P"H4*A55S=0= M;#QY( # !!$34 1P=6,$=&D"("!00T(@?QXA$^ "8!WP$] 1< ,`<4$*4',L M('5N!($@^F4`T&@>4 K !4 $`!] !"!D`V!P(&]F(%(B!0!A>AWP9PI!(B @ M;&EK91] 9&@)!Y!I=B-P=&\@:(T&\&0?T".P(&)I(8%[`Z +46,C<&\"/R)+%P;P) )>(%H-YM*X @ MH2;@'99A`8 @T?\K0PN (;$I,0VP)F,7H2" DR'0*1)F=0,@87 +4-YI*1 > MPR)!`A!R)8$#\.<=T"D`(I!C:R23(Y<7,$IO$; N'+PO30K 8T<O"HT"T3P"5\?2'%(WTGG1'] #G5B:JD)+)1@OH_'+Q(8]$I922Q(N)G/1M8\ !P:P0@)2%!9';_`' E@5I M/-@6"H46P0!Q$ ````,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! M```#T``0````4```!213H@`````'M[ ` end From diy_efi-owner Sun Apr 11 23:24:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA04644 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:24:00 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f155.hotmail.com [207.82.251.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA04641 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:23:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 23099 invoked by uid 0); 12 Apr 1999 03:22:17 -0000 Message-ID: <19990412032217.23098.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.140.85.228 by wy1lg.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:22:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.140.85.228] From: "Chris Moore" To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Another Question about the Northstar Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:22:15 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi everyone, I think you all know the problem I was having. But for those who don't, My wheels will not peel out. I have a power problem in the low end. Again I think it has to do with the Torque Management system on the 4.6 Northstar. I was looking into just making a pulse generator to produce a wheel speed signal and run it into the brake module. But I was thinking. The Northstar has two wires that run into the PCM from the EBTCM(Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) that have to do with the controling of the Torque Management. The first wire is Delivered Torque and the second wire is Desired Torque Output. These are the wires that let the PCM know how many injectors to shut down and how much timing to retard. It is read by a scanner by percentage.0% to 100%. Now, common sense tells me that one of the wires are a power wire and one is a ground or a return. Is there any way that I could run the correct voltage to the PCM that will say that there is 0% of Torque Management and that would do away with the EBTCM all together. With that being done, that would save me all the hassles of trying to fool the EBTCM. There are other variables to that we would have to try to fool like the RPM, VSS, Throttle position. If we could just figure out how much voltage to send than we could just get rid of the EBTCM and all the other variables would not matter. I hope someone can help me. Thanks everyone for the help. Chris Moore _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 00:14:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA05722 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:14:12 -0400 Received: from aapl.com.au ([203.17.125.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA05718 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:14:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 13080 invoked from network); 12 Apr 1999 04:12:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO gpg.aapl.com.au) (10.61.3.21) by 203.17.125.246 with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 04:12:32 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990412141715.00730cf4@mail.aapl.com.au> X-Sender: george_gorman@mail.aapl.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:17:15 +1000 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: George Gorman Subject: RE: Halp Diamond Star Motoring In-Reply-To: <2BAEE918EF6CD1118FA800805F57F12E026DFDF1@EXCAUS-11601> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Broken OH cams in alloy heads can result from a bad overheating experience - the head permanently warps and can put enough force on the cam bearings to crack the cams. This advice came courtesy of a backyarder experienced with 2 ltr mazda 626/ford telstar alloy heads. George Gorman At 09:08 9/04/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Peter, > >Unfortunately, it is an interference engine. The timing belts have a habit >of breaking and taking a few (or many) valves along for the ride. Those in >the know recommend changing the timing and balance belts every 30,000 miles. >I've never heard of anyone breaking a cam though, so maybe you've got >something else going on. > >After markets cams are not real popular, but they do exist so you can >probably pick up a used cam on the parts trader. Though, once you start >pulling parts you're likely to find out that it's not worth fixing. > >Good Luck, >Mike > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Peter Fenske [mailto:pfenske@bcit.bc.ca] >Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 1:48 AM >To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: RE: Halp Diamond Star Motoring > > > > >Hi All > >Thanks to David, Bruce and Mike as well as others for help with >the 2.0 mitsibushi.. > >Prob was a broken exhaust cam.. Cam sensor is driven off intake cam >broken halfway to be exact.. > >Well hope is not an interference engine.. From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 00:40:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06081 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:40:14 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06078 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:40:13 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA13470 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:38:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904120438.XAA13470@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny1-02.ix.netcom.com(198.211.16.2) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013454; Sun Apr 11 23:38:11 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:29:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Briggs and Stratton References: <371082EE.949451DD@public.shenzhen.cngb.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Possible that new B&S or using fuel inj. to meet emission stds. Some Honda engines? Also check your local drag strip and kart track. alex > I am looking to replace a regular carbueration system on a briggs and > stratton 5 HP engine with a single port fuel injection system. I was > wondering if anybody had any suggestions for feedback control, LED display > of RPM's, or the amplifier needed from the spark. Please respond ASAP!! > From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 00:40:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06089 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:40:21 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06086 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:40:20 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA13472 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:38:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904120438.XAA13472@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny1-02.ix.netcom.com(198.211.16.2) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma013454; Sun Apr 11 23:38:13 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:29:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mitsubishi MUT-II test connector In-reply-to: <6FA58B03A836D111977F0060B068FAFD0221D67F@nts1> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anyone know anything about Mitsubishi MUT-II test connector ? Vehicle > what I am talking about is new 99 Pajero 2800 turbo diesel. > > Connector looks like standard OBD-II connector but having little notch at > pin # 1 end. I have not yet measured anything from the connector but in the > future I will do this. > Pins populated at the connector and descriptions according OBD-II standard: > 1 = ? > 4 = chassis ground > 5 = signal ground > 7 = ISO K-line ? > 8 = ? > 12 = ? > 13 = ? > 14 = CAN low ? > 16 = batt + > Pin 2, 7, 10 , 15 or OBD2 pins so very possible you have a ISO-K for diagnostics, which most Asian cars do. There is clauses in J1962-5 that state you can use these pins for other things. Ford uses 2 and 10 for PWM but also has pin 7 for some other use. I have SAE J1962 1994 connector specs in SAE HS-3000 1995 which does not show any CAN or KWP2000. I am not sure if these have been fully approved as a J1850 alternative http://www.od2ii.com has a connector diagram showing CAN pins. Pin 7 is at Bat. voltage logic 0 It will be a while before I get SAE-3000 1998 You could also check ISO 14299 and 14230 alex http://www.obd-2.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 00:42:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA06186 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:42:22 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA06182 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:42:21 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:43:14 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.10] by grolen.com id 4f21.wrk; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:39:36 EDT Message-ID: <3711773F.848FF208@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:31:59 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Conversion suggestions... References: <4.1.19990411184949.0098e2b0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> <4.1.19990411225741.00938850@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You're not going to like this. That combination doesn't exist. ; ) The only vehicle I show with that engine in that year is the step van chassis (P2, P3), and it's got a 1 bbl carb. I looked at 88 and found a 4.8 R,V truck. It's 1 bbl carb'ed. I think 1/2 ton vehicles were subject to CA emissions (more stringent, more likely to have better fuel system) and larger ones weren't. Also, there's no TBI 3.8 that I know of. Seriously, look into the TBI from the Jeep I6, and GM ECM for control. I think this is what Jason Weir did. He's got some stuff up on the web. Shannen David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 08:08 PM 4/11/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Sorry, all carb'ed w/ California emissions. Any time I see a prom or > >ecm listing for any GM truck that's pre 1986, I suspect carb + CA. > >But I don't mind looking up cal id's, just in case. > >Shannen > > Hmm... > How about the 1989 Chevy R20 pickup with the 4.8L L6? > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net > Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 01:16:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA06978 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:16:41 -0400 Received: from hoser.com (eclark@hosencom.opencom.net [208.145.238.9] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA06975 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:16:40 -0400 From: eclark@hoser.com Received: from localhost (eclark@localhost) by hoser.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA31960 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:08:27 -0500 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:08:27 -0500 (CDT) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Circuit boards In-Reply-To: <37114B8C.AAF52F8B@lucent.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Ken Kelly wrote: > Tom, > I socketed the flash chips on my 95 Camaro LT1 PCM. It had a clear > waterproofing all over the board. This seemed to also be under the chips. I I never saw any of this on my 93 Firebird LT1 ECM, but I did notice it on the board inside the VATS box when I pulled that out. -Eric 93 Firebird Formula (parting out) 66 Chevy Impala (soon to have a 93 LT1) From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 02:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA07711 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:13:45 -0400 Received: from pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca (pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id CAA07707 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:13:44 -0400 Received: by pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 88256751.00214839 ; Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:03:31 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <88256751.002146B7.00@pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:03:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Conversion suggestions... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Dave Closest I can think is to go with the S10 2 bbl TBI setup. Use the stock 2BBl 225 intake with a adapter to mount the 2 bbl TBI. Lots of mopars had these.. While you are at it find a leaner burn dist, use the main pickup to feed a 8 pin HEI module tied to the ecm and stock S10 coil.. YOU will have to mount a frame mount fuel pump and the cal may have to be richened gL:peter From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 02:36:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08084 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:36:36 -0400 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08081 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:36:35 -0400 From: FHPSTANG1@aol.com Received: from FHPSTANG1@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jPQMa25416 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:33:38 EDT Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/11/99 3:25:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, psd105@psu.edu writes: << The whole basis for my project is to do it as cheaply as possible. Most of the parts I'm using are stock Ford parts, that were modified by me for this project. The turbos are even off of Ford production cars, purchased for $25 ea in perfect working order!! >> This sounds like my project. I have a 1979 Mustang, in which I will install a stock 5.0L HO motor, and use two T-03 turbos off of Turbo Coupes. I plan on running an '89 mustang 5.0 MAF EEC-IV EFI system. For quite some time now I have been looking at how to add the low imp. drivers out of a 2.3L computer, into the 5.0 computer. I have disassembled BOTH computers, and the operation looks like it could be very simple. I have a few questions, and was also referred to the EEC Mailing list. However, I haven't had the chance to ask that list questions, and then wait around for the answers. But the EEC mailing list is the place to go! John Miller 91 FHP Special Service 89/86 'stang & 85 Merkur 2.3L Turbo Hybrid 84 GT350 5.0 T-Top 79 Twin TURBO Project From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 02:55:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08283 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:55:24 -0400 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08280 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:55:23 -0400 From: FHPSTANG1@aol.com Received: from FHPSTANG1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jMONa17645; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:52:40 EDT Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying for low impedance injectors To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: psd105@psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/11/99 4:06:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, psd105@psu.edu writes: << The information I read in the archives from Dan Malek stated that the Switching Transistors, Zener Diodes, and Heat sinks need to be changed. But, I didn't see any transistors used for the injectors on the schematic, maybe I'm looking at the wrong schematic? >> OK, You need to get your hands on an EEC-IV (2.3L Turbo) And crack that puppy open. You can see the injector drivers. HOWEVER, the 2.3L EEC only has 2 injector drivers. One driver fires 2 injectors. So they are "Batch Fired". The 5.0 EEC on the other hand has one driver per injector. But the same drivers (Or Switching Transistors) are used to control other things as well, (Such as the IAC, EGR etc) and there are a total of 8 drivers (All the same) in ONE 2.3L EEC. >From what i can see, the computer sends a signal to the driver, which allows the current to flow through, a diode and capacitor are involved, and that's it. It's a very simple part of the circuit. Now where was that EEC-IV Schematic??? I want a copy of that! John Miller From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 02:56:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA08319 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:56:47 -0400 Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA08315 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:56:46 -0400 From: FHPSTANG1@aol.com Received: from FHPSTANG1@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jOBKa21404 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:54:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4554555c.2442f2a8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:54:32 EDT Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying for low impedance injectors To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/11/99 4:22:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, frederic@xephic.dynip.com writes: << Its nothing more than an inductor in parallel with the ECM output and ground, which then feeds a 1k resistor driving a large MOSFET which connects to 12V Battery, the low-impedance injector, which in turn connects to ground. This worked very well for non-peak/hold style injectors. The ECM I used was the GM 1418 Grand National ECM (Buick V6 Turbo) Hope that helped >> Ummmmmm, could that be put into a schematic, I am having a little difficulty picturing this.... John Miller From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 03:04:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA08442 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:04:14 -0400 Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA08439 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:04:13 -0400 From: FHPSTANG1@aol.com Received: from FHPSTANG1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jBAJa16609 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:01:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5c193019.2442f467@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:01:59 EDT Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying for low impedance injectors To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/11/99 4:51:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, psd105@psu.edu writes: << Yup, it did. Though I really should stop looking at this EEC Schematic I found...cause it has Battery Voltage,12v, going through a 390 ohm resistor in series and a .01uF cap in parallel, then into a 5 pin IC, out of the IC to a 3.6v? 5W diode in parallel, and a 1000pF cap in parallel, then to the injector then to ground. >> Oh that helped ME!!!!! I have been trying to find a way to get the values of the Diodes and Caps, since these are CHIP Style and soldered directly to the board. I Have a nice multi-tester... but it won't give me the values of these components. And another thing, I made my own schematic (Reversed Engineered) of a 2.3L EEC driver circuit, and it MAKES NO DAMN SENSE. I understand circuits well enough, But this thing is WAY OUT THERE! It looks like the voltage can get to the injector, whether or not the Transistor (As I call a driver) is on or off! So what's up? It seems to be in parallel, which makes no sense, series would... but not parallel. I thought I had just goofed.. But it seems that this is how it is! John Miller From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 06:06:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA10585 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:06:02 -0400 Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA10581 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:05:59 -0400 Received: from cruzers.com (surf32.cruzers.com [205.215.232.32]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA00969; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 03:16:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3711CE32.F6CCE58E@cruzers.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 02:43:15 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: GM 3.4 DOHC injector flow rates Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know the flow rates for these two injector part numbers? They are both for the 3.4L DOHC engine (vin "X") used in the GM W-bodies. 1995: 17090844, green & yellow 1996: 17121882, green -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 07:14:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA11004 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:14:01 -0400 Received: from web114.yahoomail.com (web114.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.86]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA11000 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:13:58 -0400 Message-ID: <19990412111412.16466.rocketmail@web114.yahoomail.com> Received: from [136.1.1.18] by web114.yahoomail.com; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:14:12 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:14:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Roy Subject: sequential gearboxes To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi there I know this is not fuel injection but thought maybe someone would have some info. How does a sequential gearbox change work and could it be possible to convert a gated box ie H pattern to a sequential change. Thanks Roy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 08:01:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11484 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:01:00 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11479 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:00:58 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-168.ts4.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.168]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA12245 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00db01be84db$b25a01e0$a801d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <01BE83FD.4C171BE0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> <371087EB.6A89A66F@psu.edu> <005901be8422$d4e84960$54633acf@nacelp> <3710C375.F914DB60@psu.edu> Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:47:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What about using 2 2.3L EEC systems? Gary Derian > > > correct number of cylinders)?. > > Be a shame to do a bunch of work and find out the system doesn't see Boost. > > Does the ecm look for a barometric value?. > > I don't know about fords strategy on stuff is why I ask. > > Bruce > > I would be using a Mass-Air Flow Meter (senses air flow into engine) and EEC. > It seems to be the best choice using Ford stuff. The T/C cars used a Vane Air > Flow meter (senses air-flow), which would probably be too restrictive for my > application as it only flows ~380 CFM. Also the EEC is for a 2.3L 4 cyl (using > Low impedance injectors). The S/C EEC's use a MAF meter also, but they are 3.8L From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 08:03:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11567 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:03:03 -0400 Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11563 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:03:02 -0400 Received: from mwt.net (ppp36.oec.mwt.net [156.46.76.166]) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA08964 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:58:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3711DECF.98330596@mwt.net> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 06:53:52 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Circuit boards References: <3710FE11.655D25CB@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I listed a address for a company called Dynaloy I use depot compound but they may have just the made to remove that stuff. Steve Tom Sharpe wrote: > I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The > CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is > also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. > > Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? > > How about the glue? > > Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 08:30:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA11954 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:30:06 -0400 Received: from prod1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-100.s37.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA11951 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:30:04 -0400 Received: from PROD1 ([172.16.0.1]) by prod1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 2ZG8DA2F; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:28:25 -0400 Message-ID: <001601be84df$f6255dd0$010010ac@prod1.xephic.dynip.com> From: "Frederic Breitwieser" To: Subject: Re: EEC-IV Modifying for low impedance injectors Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:28:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Ummmmmm, could that be put into a schematic, I am having a little difficulty >picturing this.... Yeah John, I'll add this to my "honeydo" list. Let me get my taxes done first :) From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 08:40:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12235 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:40:55 -0400 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12232 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:40:53 -0400 Received: from [158.152.85.138] (helo=g8stw) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10Wfzi-000CFU-0B for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:39:19 +0000 From: "g8stw" To: Subject: RE: sequential gearboxes Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:39:15 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be84e1$7a205580$0a0a7b64@g8stw> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19990412111412.16466.rocketmail@web114.yahoomail.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have done some preliminary work on this, there are two possible ways, a) using Hydraulics and b) using pneumatics. Pneumatics being cheaper and possibly faster you also need a micro-controller and some position sensors. If you want to discuss this further you can email direct if you wish. John john@g8stw.demon.co.uk > > I know this is not fuel injection but thought maybe > someone would have some info. > > How does a sequential gearbox change work and could it > be possible to convert a gated box ie H pattern to a > sequential change. > > Thanks Roy From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 08:48:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA12430 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:48:10 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA12426 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:48:09 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-8.ts6.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.2.8]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA21021 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011401be84e2$484e02e0$a801d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <19990412111412.16466.rocketmail@web114.yahoomail.com> Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:41:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Yes, its possible. The Ferrari F1 style gearchange for the F355 and now the F360 use conventional gearboxes with a hydraulic mechanism operating the shift rail, clutch, and drive by wire (EFI content). The Ferrari system is pretty comprehensive with safety overrides and a fully automatic mode. What are you trying to do? Is this for race or road use? Or, do you mean to make a big motorcycle type gearbox? Gary Derian > Hi there > > I know this is not fuel injection but thought maybe > someone would have some info. > > How does a sequential gearbox change work and could it > be possible to convert a gated box ie H pattern to a > sequential change. > > Thanks Roy From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:02:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12774 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:02:17 -0400 Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12771 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:02:15 -0400 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA05997; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:01:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:01:21 -0400 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 In-Reply-To: <37116fcb.4216923@smtp.uia.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:54:52 GMT > From: Robert Harris > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: 302 vs 460 > > What type vehicle are you using? With less than the weight of a fat lady > separating the two and much of that compensatible by moving the battery to the > trunk, aluminum intake and headers - contrary to popular opinion it aint gonna > matter much. probly a cobra kit car, I was a mechanic and did quite a few build up ( Jap. cars) but now I want one for me 8-) > > Size - it's not that much bigger - go measure one. hmm > > Build the torquiest 302/351 you want. Then build a 460, put a radical cam > and intake on it optimized for mid upper range. The residual torque left > over will still exceed that of the 320/351 and when it comes on the cam - it > be all over - you can't put enough positive pressure on a 302 to catch a wound > up 385. good point > > A bore and offset crank can take you over 500 cubic inches. > > So whine and snivel and wimp out with a sissy block. You will never > experience the gut tearing rumble of a big block coming on. You will never > see the fear and terror in her eyes as you blip the throttle and break > traction in any gear at just about any speed. You will miss the shock of your > seat breaking under rocket ship acceleration. And leaving the line in a cloud > of smoke after sitting there at 600 rpm idle and smoking till your tired of it > will not be one of your rewards. the first car I really drove alot was a 460 PI station wagon, the gas station was the only thing it didn't pass > > But it will handle a modest bit better and every Rice Rocket in town will > still out handle you and make you think you need viagra. And you'll spend a > lot more to get what a 385 (370/429/460) gives you with a stock rebuild. good point > > 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" > 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" > 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant > 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" > > Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:09:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA12934 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:09:36 -0400 Received: from lin1.chips.co.za (root@lin1.chips.co.za [160.124.87.202]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12931; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:09:32 -0400 Received: from ajordaan.dupec.co.za (pop77pos3.posix.co.za [160.124.91.77] (may be forged)) by lin1.chips.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA23710; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:13:51 +0200 Received: by ajordaan.dupec.co.za with Microsoft Mail id <01BE84F6.64A04980@ajordaan.dupec.co.za>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:08:59 +0200 Message-ID: <01BE84F6.64A04980@ajordaan.dupec.co.za> From: Armand Jordaan To: "'gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" , "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: Eletronic throttle control Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:08:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id JAB12932 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a non-GM question to ask... I have an Electro-mechanically controlled ("ETC" or "drive-by-wire") throttle body (Mannesman VDO part no X22 143 670). Apparently it is used on the new VW Golf A4. I can't find any idle air bypass on this throttle body, and wondered if anybody knows if the idle air is controlled by the electric motor only or is a supplemental idle actuator needed to control the idle air opening? Armand Jordaan From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13182 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:20:25 -0400 Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13179 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:20:24 -0400 Received: from mihmp ([152.11.20.200]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA1EF2; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:19:45 -0400 Message-ID: <002801be84e6$c22b1360$c8140b98@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> From: "David A. Cooley" To: Cc: Subject: Re: GM 3.4 DOHC injector flow rates Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:16:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I was told that *ALL* DOHC 3.4's used 30 Lb/hr injectors. -----Original Message----- From: Ludis Langens To: Diy_efi Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 6:04 AM Subject: GM 3.4 DOHC injector flow rates >Does anyone know the flow rates for these two injector part numbers? >They are both for the 3.4L DOHC engine (vin "X") used in the GM W-bodies. > > 1995: 17090844, green & yellow > > 1996: 17121882, green > >-- >Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com >Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:21:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13206 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:21:58 -0400 Received: from hoemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (hoemail1.lucent.com [192.11.226.161]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13203 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:21:57 -0400 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com (h135-5-45-7.lucent.com [135.5.45.7]) by hoemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21091 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA17721; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:20:19 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA17718; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:20:18 -0400 Message-ID: <3711F390.F7B4FC48@lucent.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:22:24 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Circuit boards References: <5d340afb.2442af60@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike, I'm Ken not Tom, but yes I read the original chips with My Eprom reader, I actually copied them to new Flash chips and plugged them into the Board. The original chip images were disassembled for our project. I have built an editor for the fuel and ignition tables. I keep adding to it as we learn more. Dave has a scanner running for the 94-95 LT1 PCM, and is working on a Flash download routine. If you are working with the 94-95 LT1 PCM drop me a line. Ken ECMnut@aol.com wrote: > > Tom, > I think you may have answered this before, but now that you have > socketed these chips, can you remove them for programming, > just like eproms? > Thx, Mike V > > > I socketed the flash chips on my 95 Camaro LT1 PCM. It had a clear > > waterproofing all over the board. This seemed to also be under the chips. I > > built a copper foil damn around the Flash chips, then used a heat gun to > > remove > > the surface mount Flash chips, The heat from the heat gun melted the > solder > > and > > softened all the goo up so I could pull off the chips. I then cleaned up > the > > area with repeated cleaning with alcohol. Alcohol did not really disolve > it , > > > > but with scrubbing it cleaned the board up enough to allow me to solder on > > the > > sockets. From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:25:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13258 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:25:32 -0400 Received: from hoemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (hoemail1.lucent.com [192.11.226.161]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13255 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:25:31 -0400 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com (h135-5-45-7.lucent.com [135.5.45.7]) by hoemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA23182 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:23:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA17938; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:23:54 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA17935; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:23:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3711F466.13206676@lucent.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:25:58 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Circuit boards References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Eric, The 93 PCM is a whole different beast. It uses Eprom, not Flash and is a batch fire, not sequential EFI. I'm not sure about construction techniques on it. Ken eclark@hoser.com wrote: > > On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Ken Kelly wrote: > > > Tom, > > I socketed the flash chips on my 95 Camaro LT1 PCM. It had a clear > > waterproofing all over the board. This seemed to also be under the chips. I > > I never saw any of this on my 93 Firebird LT1 ECM, but I did notice it on > the board inside the VATS box when I pulled that out. > > -Eric > 93 Firebird Formula (parting out) > 66 Chevy Impala (soon to have a 93 LT1) From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:33:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13479 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:33:28 -0400 Received: from hoemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (hoemail1.lucent.com [192.11.226.161]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13476 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:33:27 -0400 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com (h135-5-45-7.lucent.com [135.5.45.7]) by hoemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA28315 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA18474; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:31:44 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA18471; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:31:43 -0400 Message-ID: <3711F63D.7D708309@lucent.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:33:49 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Circuit boards References: <01BE8460.23FD9220@d58-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom, When I heated my Flash chips to the point of melting the solder, they still had something holding them to the board, but it was soft enough that when I grabbed the chip with some tweezers I could rock it back and forth. The chip came of after a few seconds of twisting. I assumed it was just the potting compound under the chip. If it was glue, the heat softened it. NOTE: I was using a commercial heat gun, not a hair drier. Ken Marc Piccioni wrote: > > Tom > > Usually mass production PCB assembly techniques, under each part is a drop > of "crazy glue" like adhesive to hold the bit in place during wavesoldeing. > If you have a PCB that you don't care about try acetone to dissolve the > potting compound. Usually after the pins are desoldered, a careful > application of force will crack the adhesive loose. > > /Marc > > ---------- > From: Tom Sharpe[SMTP:twsharpe@mtco.com] > Sent: April 11, 1999 1:54 PM > To: efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Circuit boards > > I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The > CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is > also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. > > Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? > > How about the glue? > > Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT > M>)\^(AH#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` > M`@````(``@`!!) &`& !```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ > M`0```&$`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S > M,BYE;F M;VAI;RUS=&%T92YE9'4`````'@`", $````%````4TU44 `````>``,P`0`` > M`"(```!D:7E?969I0&5F:3,S,BYE;F M`0````,`_@\&````'@`!, $````D````)V1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO > M:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=2<``@$+, $````G````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$5&23,S > M,BY%3D M``0````````#GD@!"( '`!@```!)4$TN36EC M" $$@ $`$P```%)%.B!#:7)C=6ET(&)O87)D M`!4`!P`M````+@$!(( #``X```#/!P0`"P`5``,`( ```!T!`0F `0`A```` > M1# P-C@T,T8U,48P1#(Q,4)%.4,T-#0U-3,U-# P,# `V 8!`Y &`!@%```2 > M````"P`C```````#`"8```````L`*0```````P`V``````! `#D`H+YCHY&$ > MO@$>`' ``0```!,```!213H@0VER8W5I="!B;V%R9',```(!<0`!````%@`` > M``&^A)&C8S^$!M'P41'2OIQ$15-4`````!X`'@P!````!0```%--5% ````` > M'@`?# $````8````;7!I8V-I;VYI0&%T=&-A;F%D82YN970``P`&$%T]0F\# > M``<0N@(``!X`"! !````90```%1/355354%,3%E-05-34%)/1%5#5$E/3E!# > M0D%34T5-0DQ95$5#2$Y)455%4RQ53D1%4D5!0TA005)425-!1%)/4$]&(D-2 > M05I91TQ512),24M%041(15-)5D543TA/3$142$4``````@$)$ $```"=`P`` > MF0,``$(&``!,6D9U91M#$/\`"@$/`A4"J 7K`H,`4 +R"0(`8V@*P'-E=#(W > M!@`&PP*#,@/%`@!P)S=&5M`H,SMP+D!Q,"@S02S!3%?0J BPC/"=D[ > M%Y\R-34"@ <*@0VQ"V!N9S$P,R\44 L*%%$+\F,`0"!41P-P"H4*A55S=0= > M;#QY( # !!$34 1P=6,$=&D"("!00T(@?QXA$^ "8!WP$] 1< ,`<4$*4',L > M('5N!($@^F4`T&@>4 K !4 $`!] !"!D`V!P(&]F(%(B!0!A>AWP9PI!(B @ > M;&EK91] 9&@)!Y!I=B-P=&\@:(T&\&0?T".P(&)I(8%[`Z +46,C MH"!4=V$C\',D864EX2[T($DB4'D(8"1 )C$AP5L?$B2@805 )S)D`B G705 > M8PK (W$&X'4%0'2N<&\"/R)+%P;P) )>(%H-YM*X @ > MH2;@'99A`8 @T?\K0PN (;$I,0VP)F,7H2" DR'0*1)F=0,@87 +4-YI*1 > > MPR)!`A!R)8$#\.<=T"D`(I!C:R23(Y<7,$IO$; N'+PO30K 8T< M.# "T6GP+3$T- WP#- U\PM9O#$V"J #8!_A!4 M.!>O"H M.1X?-Y8,@AQR!@`1@7!E6P!33510.G1W M,#K_/ M!$U#)`Q$Q,2" ,3E#P$-@Z#HU-!\`33[_. M0$ATIBX)\";0;V@>T"T3P"5\?2'%(WTGG1'] #G5B:J MT4:?/ M#:3# =23QFP;@"Q%S-!\U(S,V-I?;&]4WEDDG9@6@=0M0(W"!(D%% > M14-?25919?LH%%3083SP*<$EXBJ$'U6/,L <<".P"H5#4%4?0,,@L ?P3TT@ > M(!&P$^"])!)B(W BXB2 *+!W`Z#_)*$#H"9@+J,E$20A)5-8T_\I,00`"H4' > M0"9@(<$CL"8P^GD@@&-5H K!!: P$27Q/B@F("U!'F$B0"7A/RGO(C C\"#A > M82%Y)* FLAR\/$1O!Y$`<" M42G ;U>D)+)1@OH_'+Q(8]$I922Q(N)G/1M8\ !P:P0@)2%!9';_`' E@5I > M/-@6"H46P0!Q$ ````,`$! ``````P`1$ ````! > M```#T``0````4```!213H@`````'M[ > ` > end From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:34:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13496 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:34:07 -0400 Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13491 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:34:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA14582 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:32:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:32:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar In-Reply-To: <19990412032217.23098.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Chris Moore wrote: > Hi everyone, > I think you all know the problem I was having. But for those who > don't, My wheels will not peel out. I have a power problem in the > low end. Again I think it has to do with the Torque Management > system on the 4.6 Northstar. I was looking into just making a pulse > generator to produce a wheel speed signal and run it into the brake > module. But I was thinking. The Northstar has two wires that run > into the PCM from the EBTCM(Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) > that have to do with the controling of the Torque Management. The > first wire is Delivered Torque and the second wire is Desired Torque > Output. These are the wires that let the PCM know how many injectors > to shut down and how much timing to retard. It is read by a scanner > by percentage.0% to 100%. Now, common sense tells me that one of the > wires are a power wire and one is a ground or a return. Is there any > way that I could run the correct voltage to the PCM that will say > that there is 0% of Torque Management and that would do away with the > EBTCM all together. With that being done, that would save me all the > hassles of trying to fool the EBTCM. There are other variables to > that we would have to try to fool like the RPM, VSS, Throttle > position. If we could just figure out how much voltage to send than > we could just get rid of the EBTCM and all the other variables would > not matter. I hope someone can help me. Thanks everyone for the > help. > > Chris Moore Probably the best way to figure out what needs to be input is to find a helm manual for the car you got the engine from. The mhelm I have for my car hass quite a bit of detail on the wiring and what sort of signals and ranges are supposed to be on those wires. If the wires are "delivered torque" and "desired torque" then making sure the "desired torque" is a higher value than the "delivered torque" would probably make everything work correctly. And assuming (dangerous) that the input signals are both 5V, rig a voltage divider and give the "desired torque" a bit higher value than the delievered torque, and the computer should no longer back things off. The sure way to know though would be to find/borrow a copy of the helm for that car and study the section on the traction control system. Roger From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:48:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA13917 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:48:03 -0400 Received: from user.rose.com ([199.212.158.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA13913 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:48:01 -0400 Received: from JMV (s028.rose.com [205.189.215.28]) by user.rose.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA03907 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:02:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199904121302.JAA03907@user.rose.com> From: "Joseph Vella" To: "diy_efi" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:47:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: PMMail 2.00.1500 for OS/2 Warp 4.00 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Motronic error states / limp home mode Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu does anyone know a simple way to prevent the ecu from going into limp home without re-programming the eproms, maybe from the diagnostic port ? it is a '93 Audi S4 motronic, and I believe I'm getting the Manifold pressure sensor failure mode ( due to it not agreeing with the air mass sensor, due to running 23 PSI of boost ) making it enter limp home after about 10 seconds on boost. How long does the ECU take to recover from a power interruption (reset) thought two was that I would reset the ECU at 5 second intervals when the boost exceeded 15 PSI ( say .02 sec pulse of the supply voltage ) ? Thought 3 - which registers are responsible, I can cut a new EPROM if I have to, but I'd rather not if it isn't necessary. If someone has mapped one of these to 23PSI I wouldn't mind having the code ? Thanks! Joseph Vella joevella!!!@user.rose.com ( remove !!! to reply, if present ) A Software Company International Inc. RR1 Palgrave On. Canada L0N 1P0 Large Database Developers In Delphi / DB2 / Java / WEB based Data Delivery 16 and 32 bit development for Windows and OS/2 905-936-9100 Fax 905-936-9099 our home page: http://www.rose.com/~joevella 1959 Bellanca Cruisemaster - My Sweetie. 1995 Summit 470 1993 Audi S4Q 1890 Karn Tracker ( Pipe Organ) From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 09:59:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA14333 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:59:23 -0400 Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14330 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:59:21 -0400 Received: from ord-laptop (ppp-109-10.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.109.10]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21725 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:57:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009301be84e4$285dd300$0a6d6bcf@ord-laptop> From: "Ord Millar" To: Subject: Re: Circuit boards Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:53:14 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MG Chemicals conformal coating stripper, cat #831 is usually good for this. It's really thick, so it's easy to get it just on the area that you need to work on. It's a little bit aggressive, so you can't leave it for too long on the board. -----Original Message----- From: Ken Kelly To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, April 11, 1999 11:48 PM Subject: Re: Circuit boards >Tom, > I socketed the flash chips on my 95 Camaro LT1 PCM. It had a clear >waterproofing all over the board. This seemed to also be under the chips. I >built a copper foil damn around the Flash chips, then used a heat gun to remove >the surface mount Flash chips, The heat from the heat gun melted the solder and >softened all the goo up so I could pull off the chips. I then cleaned up the >area with repeated cleaning with alcohol. Alcohol did not really disolve it , >but with scrubbing it cleaned the board up enough to allow me to solder on the >sockets. > > Ken > >Tom Sharpe wrote: >> >> I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The >> CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is >> also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. >> >> Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? >> >> How about the glue? >> >> Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe > From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 10:20:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA14861 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:20:15 -0400 Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14858 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:20:14 -0400 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA18716; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:19:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:19:19 -0400 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: sequential gearboxes In-Reply-To: <000001be84e1$7a205580$0a0a7b64@g8stw> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, g8stw wrote: > > I have done some preliminary work on this, there are two possible ways, a) > using Hydraulics and b) using pneumatics. > Pneumatics being cheaper and possibly faster you also need a > micro-controller and some position sensors. their should be a mechanical solution like motor bikes use. picture a cyclinder with groves if you lose the gear shift lever so the shift rails are available. for each gear, you make each of the 3 rails go to a given position eg on my landrover f= towards the front r= towards the rear n= in the middle rail ( L to R ) Rev, 3-4 and 1-2 1st n n r 2nd n n f 3rd n r n 4th n f n rev f n n it shouldn't be hard to make this chart into a pattern of groves so when the cyl. rotate the rails are pushed in or pulled out. if the trany has shilt levers I think hurst used to have a linear shifter > > If you want to discuss this further you can email direct if you wish. > > John > > john@g8stw.demon.co.uk > > > > > > I know this is not fuel injection but thought maybe > > someone would have some info. > > > > How does a sequential gearbox change work and could it > > be possible to convert a gated box ie H pattern to a > > sequential change. > > > > Thanks Roy > > Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 10:30:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15196 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:30:01 -0400 Received: from ns2.us.dell.com (ns2.us.dell.com [143.166.82.252]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15193; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:30:00 -0400 From: Terry_Sare@dell.com Received: from ausxc06.us.dell.com (ausxc06.us.dell.com [143.166.99.78]) by ns2.us.dell.com (8.8.5/DELL-INET-10-14-1997) with ESMTP id IAA21031; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:28:25 -0600 (GMT) Received: by ausxc06.us.dell.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <23ZM6HPT>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:25:46 -0500 Message-ID: To: efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Circuit boards Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:24:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The Clear Coating is Conformal coating. Check on unused corner of board and see if the B12 carb cleaner will start it peeling. I used that on board I used to repair. Also used the, I think name was Chemtool, stuff you soaked carbs in to remove. As always, if carb cleaner says is dissolves plastic, don't get in on thing you want to keep. Failing that -- go to your nearest electronic supply store and get conformal coat remover. (NOT radio shack:-)). Terry -----Original Message----- From: Tom Sharpe [mailto:twsharpe@mtco.com] Sent: Sunday, April 11, 1999 2:55 PM To: efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Circuit boards I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? How about the glue? Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 11:20:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16588 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:20:56 -0400 Received: from firewall8.cummins.com ([205.230.25.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16581 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:20:54 -0400 Received: by firewall8.cummins.com; id KAA21744; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:18:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from unknown(143.222.15.21) by firewall8.cummins.com via smap (4.1) id xma021718; Mon, 12 Apr 99 10:18:15 -0500 Received: from blitzen.eeg.cummins.com by ceco1.cummins.com (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) id AA12820; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:18:14 -0500 Received: from comet.eeg.cummins.com by blitzen.eeg.cummins.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id KAA16526; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:18:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from cummins.com by comet.eeg.cummins.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id KAA27001; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:18:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <37120EB4.1CF95890@cummins.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:18:12 -0500 From: Matt S Bower X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Ford Serial data References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Can anyone help me out. I am looking for info on the ford eec IV data stream for a scantool. Have done some web searching and archive searching but have come up with nothing (maybe just missed the good one?). I normally stick with GM (What I know and like), but wife has a '93 Taurus and what can it hurt to see how they do things on the other side of the fence. Any info you can through my way will be a help. Thanks Matt From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 11:27:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16809 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:27:59 -0400 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16806 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:27:57 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id KAA06471; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:27:05 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma006400; Mon, 12 Apr 99 10:26:19 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA10953; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:25:35 -0500 Message-ID: <37120FB6.ACA8198F@arm.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:22:30 -0500 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Trigger Signal: MSD 6A, 7AL ?? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There is a comprehensive document on the FTP site in pdf format about MSD ignition. It's got a description about the inputs and outputs, schematic, parts list, etc. Go to the diy_efi WWW page, to ftp site index, and it's the very last link. --steve Paul Ko wrote: > > Does anyone know how the trigger signal for the MSD ignition boxes look > like? This is thru the points wire (white). I assume it is a rising > signal because points output a rising signal and also the testing > procedure for the MSD is to ground and release the white wire, where the > trigger is upon the release from ground. > > Thanks in advance, > > Paul Ko > pko@mindspring.com > http://www.mindspring.com/~pko > > Formula SAE UCDavis Team Captain > http://mae.engr.ucdavis.edu/~fsae -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 11:29:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16873 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:29:25 -0400 Received: from mail3.cadvision.com (mail3.cadvision.com [207.228.64.48]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16869 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:29:23 -0400 Received: from tigress.cdcgy.com (tigress.cdcgy.com [209.167.52.146]) by mail3.cadvision.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/CW) with SMTP id JAA14138 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:27:45 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990412092629.0095a5f0@cadvision.com> Received: from a17374.csd.canada.cdev.com by tigress.cdcgy.com via smtpd (for mail3.cadvision.com [207.228.64.48]) with SMTP; 12 Apr 1999 15:27:45 UT X-Sender: huntera@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:26:29 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Andrew Subject: Injector listing In-Reply-To: <3711F390.F7B4FC48@lucent.com> References: <5d340afb.2442af60@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi guys, Somewhere on the web I remember seeing a listing of injectors used on various vehicles. Does anyone know of a site with such a listing? Thanks, Andrew From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 11:52:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17611 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:52:59 -0400 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17608 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:52:58 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id KAA07345; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:52:05 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma007338; Mon, 12 Apr 99 10:51:28 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA11776; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:50:45 -0500 Message-ID: <3712159A.38C5308@arm.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:47:38 -0500 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If it's one "module" talking to another, then the communication is probably a digital stream ala OBD-II rather than analog signals. Like Roger said, though, the HELM manual is the way to go, should have all the info (at least an indication of whether the signal is analog or digital). --steve Roger Heflin wrote: > > On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Chris Moore wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > I think you all know the problem I was having. But for those who > > don't, My wheels will not peel out. I have a power problem in the > > low end. Again I think it has to do with the Torque Management > > system on the 4.6 Northstar. I was looking into just making a pulse > > generator to produce a wheel speed signal and run it into the brake > > module. But I was thinking. The Northstar has two wires that run > > into the PCM from the EBTCM(Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) > > that have to do with the controling of the Torque Management. The > > first wire is Delivered Torque and the second wire is Desired Torque > > Output. These are the wires that let the PCM know how many injectors > > to shut down and how much timing to retard. It is read by a scanner > > by percentage.0% to 100%. Now, common sense tells me that one of the > > wires are a power wire and one is a ground or a return. Is there any > > way that I could run the correct voltage to the PCM that will say > > that there is 0% of Torque Management and that would do away with the > > EBTCM all together. With that being done, that would save me all the > > hassles of trying to fool the EBTCM. There are other variables to > > that we would have to try to fool like the RPM, VSS, Throttle > > position. If we could just figure out how much voltage to send than > > we could just get rid of the EBTCM and all the other variables would > > not matter. I hope someone can help me. Thanks everyone for the > > help. > > > > Chris Moore > > Probably the best way to figure out what needs to be input is to find > a helm manual for the car you got the engine from. The mhelm I have > for my car hass quite a bit of detail on the wiring and what sort of > signals and ranges are supposed to be on those wires. If the wires > are "delivered torque" and "desired torque" then making sure the > "desired torque" is a higher value than the "delivered torque" would > probably make everything work correctly. And assuming (dangerous) > that the input signals are both 5V, rig a voltage divider and give the > "desired torque" a bit higher value than the delievered torque, and > the computer should no longer back things off. The sure way to know > though would be to find/borrow a copy of the helm for that car and > study the section on the traction control system. > > Roger -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 11:53:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA17676 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:53:49 -0400 Received: from web509.yahoomail.com (web509.yahoomail.com [128.11.68.76]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17659 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:53:43 -0400 Message-ID: <19990412155138.2880.rocketmail@web509.yahoomail.com> Received: from [193.131.172.49] by web509.yahoomail.com; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:51:38 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:51:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Martin Easterbrook Subject: high pressure fuel pumps - recommendations? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have some injectors designed for use at 16barg (230psi). I have measured them against other race injectors at 10bar (145psi), 16bar (230psi) and 30bar (435psi) on my test bed and found that the atomisation performance and linearity are very good at 16 bar and excellent at 30bar. I would like to run these on a car, but I need to find a suitable fuel pump setup. I need either a mechanical pump or a combination of electic pumps that can supply 98 octane pump fuel for 600hp at 16bar or 30 bar (ideally). The pump(s) would be fed from a pressurised pre-tank (running about 1barg). Any recommendations? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 12:16:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA18520 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:16:02 -0400 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA18517 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:16:01 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id LAA08187; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:15:05 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma008183; Mon, 12 Apr 99 11:14:57 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA12331; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:14:13 -0500 Message-ID: <37121B1A.F282577E@arm.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:11:06 -0500 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector listing References: <5d340afb.2442af60@aol.com> <3.0.1.32.19990412092629.0095a5f0@cadvision.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've seen a long Bosch list before posted to the list. It should be in the archives, a specific search should turn it up (remember to AND the search terms to narrow the search). There's a list of ford injectors in the OEM/FORD section of the DIY_EFI page. Also I've had good luck typing part numbers directly into Altavista (casting numbers, GM part numbers, etc.). --steve Andrew wrote: > > Hi guys, > Somewhere on the web I remember seeing a listing of injectors used on > various vehicles. Does anyone know of a site with such a listing? > > Thanks, > Andrew -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 12:32:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19065 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:37 -0400 Received: from P1 (www.contel.co.il [192.117.232.30]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19062 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:32:35 -0400 Received: from p1.isdn.net.il - 192.115.104.11 by isdn.net.il with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:29:57 +0300 Received: from isdn.net.il (pri2196.isdn.net.il [192.117.233.196]) by p1.isdn.net.il with SMTP (MailShield v1.5); Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:29:57 +0200 Message-ID: <37122EEE.64411E80@isdn.net.il> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:35:42 +0200 From: yaron sadot X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injector listing References: <5d340afb.2442af60@aol.com> <3.0.1.32.19990412092629.0095a5f0@cadvision.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu autospeed.com yaron Andrew wrote: > Hi guys, > Somewhere on the web I remember seeing a listing of injectors used on > various vehicles. Does anyone know of a site with such a listing? > > Thanks, > Andrew From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 12:46:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA19497 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:46:20 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA19493 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:46:19 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.14]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id MAA13637 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006d01be8503$dcfb37c0$0e633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <19990412155138.2880.rocketmail@web509.yahoomail.com> Subject: Re: high pressure fuel pumps - recommendations? Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:45:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Easterbrook To: Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 11:51 AM Subject: high pressure fuel pumps - recommendations? What style/manufacturer are these?. Bruce > I have some injectors designed for use at 16barg (230psi). I have > measured them against other race injectors at 10bar (145psi), 16bar > (230psi) and 30bar (435psi) on my test bed and found that the > atomisation performance and linearity are very good at 16 bar and > excellent at 30bar. > > I would like to run these on a car, but I need to find a suitable fuel > pump setup. I need either a mechanical pump or a combination of > electic pumps that can supply 98 octane pump fuel for 600hp at 16bar > or 30 bar (ideally). The pump(s) would be fed from a pressurised > pre-tank (running about 1barg). > > Any recommendations? > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 13:34:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA20941 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:34:17 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20938 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:34:16 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-212.ts5.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.212]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA03590 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007301be850a$5615f7c0$d401d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <911.769T1468T12083659@geocities.com> Subject: Re: Torque measurement Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:31:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Torsional deflection, in radians, for a solid bar is ((L*32)/(pi*d^4))*(T/G) where d is the diameter, T is torque and G is shear modulus. For your axle, I calculate 0.00267 which is 0.15 degrees. Gary Derian > > What about putting a postion sensor on both the inner and outer CV joint (for > front wheel drive engine) and measuring the twist in the driveshaft? > > My Mini has a 450mm by 25mm driveshaft. > > Anyone know rough calculations for torque v twist? > > The motor puts about 340 Nm on the ground (100Nm at the crank) in top gear. > > -- > Tom Parker - tparker@geocities.com > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 15:01:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA22818 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:01:13 -0400 Received: from symtx_ca_serv1.symca.com (symca.com [38.168.71.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA22815 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:01:12 -0400 Received: by symtx_ca_serv1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <2PKKV08D>; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:59:34 -0700 Message-ID: <03D6F0797C58D211B99600105A1598EF0239F1@symtx_ca_serv1> From: Greg Woods To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Circuit boards Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:59:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I have a couple of EEC_IV boards that I am trying to disassemble. The > CPU and ROM seem to be glued down then sodered into place. There is > also a heavy, clear coating (waterproofing?) over everything. > > Does anyone know what will disolve this without destroying the board? > > How about the glue? > > Thanks in Advance Tom Sharpe When I worked at Allied Signal in the General Aviation Division, we coated all our boards with a product called Hemi-Seal. It was a sort of waterproofing that enabled our boards to pass the extremely high humidity and salt water spray specs for FAA approval. It was a substance that is just like what your describing. I think Toms right when he suggests acetone to remove it. I think that'll work. hope this helped... Greg Woods gwoods@symtx.com austin, tx From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 15:43:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23808 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:43:09 -0400 Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23800 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:43:07 -0400 Received: from martin-new ([194.168.122.164]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.00.03.11 201-229-104-111) with SMTP id <19990412194127.BDTE16164.mta1-svc@martin-new> for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:41:27 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:44:09 +0100 Message-ID: <01BE8525.36D0F2A0.martin.easterbrook@virgin.net> From: Martin Easterbrook To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: high pressure fuel pumps - recommendations? Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:35:41 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu We designed them in-house for Formula One use (they're used on the McLaren, Prost, TWR and Jordan). They're made by Keihin Seiki in Japan - best known for carburettors. F1 customers are easy because they all design/manufacture their own mechanical pumps but some teams in other categories with less money (eg World Rally Car, FIA GT) want to use these injectors too. Martin mailto:martin.easterbrook@vigin.net -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: 12 April 1999 17:45 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: high pressure fuel pumps - recommendations? ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Easterbrook To: Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 11:51 AM Subject: high pressure fuel pumps - recommendations? What style/manufacturer are these?. Bruce > I have some injectors designed for use at 16barg (230psi). I have > measured them against other race injectors at 10bar (145psi), 16bar > (230psi) and 30bar (435psi) on my test bed and found that the > atomisation performance and linearity are very good at 16 bar and > excellent at 30bar. > > I would like to run these on a car, but I need to find a suitable fuel > pump setup. I need either a mechanical pump or a combination of > electic pumps that can supply 98 octane pump fuel for 600hp at 16bar > or 30 bar (ideally). The pump(s) would be fed from a pressurised > pre-tank (running about 1barg). > > Any recommendations? > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk > From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 15:46:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA23954 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:46:31 -0400 Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23949 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:46:30 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12738 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:44:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id MAA24130 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:44:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199904121944.MAA24130@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Motronic error states / limp home mode To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:44:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <199904121302.JAA03907@user.rose.com> from "Joseph Vella" at Apr 12, 99 09:47:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > it is a '93 Audi S4 motronic, and I believe I'm getting the Manifold pressure sensor > failure mode ( due to it not agreeing with the air mass sensor, due to running > 23 PSI of boost ) making it enter limp home after about 10 seconds on boost. I'm not surprised. It has a 2.5bar sensor and 23 psi is over 2.5bar. > How long does the ECU take to recover from a power interruption (reset) > thought two was that I would reset the ECU at 5 second intervals when the boost > exceeded 15 PSI ( say .02 sec pulse of the supply voltage ) ? Too long. At least one revolution to resync the crank/cam sensors. Then it will have forgotten any knock retard it had. Get a spark at the wrong time and you'll likely bend a rod at that boost. > Thought 3 - which registers are responsible, I can cut a new EPROM if I have to, > but I'd rather not if it isn't necessary. > If someone has mapped one of these to 23PSI I wouldn't mind having the code ? That would be EPROMs. There are two CPUs in the ECU, one for fuel/timing and one for boost control/knock retard. You would need a 3bar pressure sensor too which entails many more changes in the tables. This has been done, but it costs significant $. Talk to Ned Ritchie at Intended Acceleration... www.intendedacceleration.com for information. Orin. From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 15:59:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA24267 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:59:14 -0400 Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA24264 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:59:13 -0400 Received: from computor (ppp-209-77-89-88.scrm01.pacbell.net [209.77.89.88]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id MAA10251 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004401be851e$b239d440$58594dd1@computor> From: "Mark Romans" To: Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:57:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Use a tech2 or diacom to look at if torque management is being used. Northstars don't have a lot of torque. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 6:58 AM Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar > > >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Chris Moore wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> I think you all know the problem I was having. But for those who >> don't, My wheels will not peel out. I have a power problem in the >> low end. Again I think it has to do with the Torque Management >> system on the 4.6 Northstar. I was looking into just making a pulse >> generator to produce a wheel speed signal and run it into the brake >> module. But I was thinking. The Northstar has two wires that run >> into the PCM from the EBTCM(Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) >> that have to do with the controling of the Torque Management. The >> first wire is Delivered Torque and the second wire is Desired Torque >> Output. These are the wires that let the PCM know how many injectors >> to shut down and how much timing to retard. It is read by a scanner >> by percentage.0% to 100%. Now, common sense tells me that one of the >> wires are a power wire and one is a ground or a return. Is there any >> way that I could run the correct voltage to the PCM that will say >> that there is 0% of Torque Management and that would do away with the >> EBTCM all together. With that being done, that would save me all the >> hassles of trying to fool the EBTCM. There are other variables to >> that we would have to try to fool like the RPM, VSS, Throttle >> position. If we could just figure out how much voltage to send than >> we could just get rid of the EBTCM and all the other variables would >> not matter. I hope someone can help me. Thanks everyone for the >> help. >> >> Chris Moore > >Probably the best way to figure out what needs to be input is to find >a helm manual for the car you got the engine from. The mhelm I have >for my car hass quite a bit of detail on the wiring and what sort of >signals and ranges are supposed to be on those wires. If the wires >are "delivered torque" and "desired torque" then making sure the >"desired torque" is a higher value than the "delivered torque" would >probably make everything work correctly. And assuming (dangerous) >that the input signals are both 5V, rig a voltage divider and give the >"desired torque" a bit higher value than the delievered torque, and >the computer should no longer back things off. The sure way to know >though would be to find/borrow a copy of the helm for that car and >study the section on the traction control system. > > Roger > From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 17:35:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA26396 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:35:37 -0400 Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA26393 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:35:35 -0400 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA07356; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:33:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 88256751.0075EE6B ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:28:07 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: "Joseph Vella" Message-ID: <88256751.0075EBE6.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:26:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Motronic error states / limp home mode Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> You need to talk to Garrett Lim. He knows those Bosch Motronic ECUs better than anybody, and tweaks them better than anybody. There should be two data link connectors somewhere in the car (check under the shift boot). They can be jumpered to make the ECU spit out the OBD I DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Codes), via the check engine light. You can also clear any stored codes using the jumper method. It beats paying for a VAG 1551 scan. I don't think the "limp mode" can be reset that way, and I don't think the codes are stored in the EPROM either (if you wanted to do a chip swap to clear codes). Again, Garrett can answer all your questions, and can solve your code problems once and for all. http://www.giacusa.com/welcome.html Check out his sight, and drop him a line. Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 18:50:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA27467 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:50:12 -0400 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA27464 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:50:11 -0400 From: FHPREMACH@aol.com Received: from FHPREMACH@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jJVLa27564 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:47:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:47:00 EDT Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 38 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 99-04-12 10:32:23 EDT, you write: << > > > How does a sequential gearbox change work and could it > > be possible to convert a gated box ie H pattern to a > > sequential change. > > > > Thanks Roy >> Hi, I have been looking into this. The only restrictionis the need for a CNC mill with an active 4th Axis and the software to program it. That and size. Yes, it would be similar to a motorbike. I am intersted in programming it and building one for a Lotus 7 type special. I will be probably be using the 1965 Cortina GT motor and trans with an EFI system. Nicely, it has the shift mechanism forward enough to get rid of the problems of mounting the drum over the top of the box like a Mustang or similar application. Luckily, I am a rep for a CAD/CAM software, so I am going to do it and use it to demo some features. I will keep the list posted as it comes together. Fred Harmon From diy_efi-owner Mon Apr 12 23:22:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA31012 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:22:51 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA31009 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:22:49 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-79.mtco.com [206.69.130.79]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id WAA09200 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:21:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3712B883.9E85F28D@mtco.com> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:22:43 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Pat Ford wrote: > > What type vehicle are you using? With less than the weight of a fat lady > > separating the two and much of that compensatible by moving the battery to the > > trunk, aluminum intake and headers - contrary to popular opinion it aint gonna > > matter much. > > probly a cobra kit car, I have a 2400 lb shell valley with a heavy kevlar body and hard top, 406 SBC, Brodix, T350, 9" 2.75 auburn, efi, Vette brakes, yadayadayada. 11 flat@130 on street radials. There's a stock 428 in town and another 427 with good heads, both carburated 4 speeds. The 428 doesn't have a chance. The 427 can catch me in the quarter if he uses a lot of clutch and tire off the line. If he hit's it too hard, he can't catch me till 140+, he has already used up one Jag rear end. >From a rolling start, it's even until I hit second (70mph) then he starts pulling away. at 130 he has about 4 cars and I go third and it's over. My point is that if you don't have a real 500HP motor, leave it in the garage. Small blocks make good parade cars... Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 00:24:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA31825 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:24:17 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA31822 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:24:16 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.91]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id AAA17817 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:22:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004101be8565$5894f220$5b633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <3712B883.9E85F28D@mtco.com> Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:23:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Sharpe To: Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 11:22 PM Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 Yawn, My dog is smarter than your dog, is usually is for the wax brand comparing lists. Bruce > My point is that if you don't have a real 500HP motor, leave it in the garage. > Small blocks make good parade cars... Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 01:08:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA32596 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:08:07 -0400 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA32593 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:08:06 -0400 From: JCsDOOR@aol.com Received: from JCsDOOR@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jPSTa17650 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:04:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5742a71d.24442a79@aol.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:04:57 EDT Subject: Re: Eletronic throttle control To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu the iac valve handles all air .% of opening can be read off obd -2 data Jim Crance Co.,springs Co... From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 01:19:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA32706 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:19:19 -0400 Received: from dfw.nationwide.net (dfw.nationwide.net [198.175.15.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA32703 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:19:18 -0400 Received: from nationwide.net (PPP64.fortworth.nationwide.net [204.155.159.74]) by dfw.nationwide.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id AAA13037 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:15:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3712D3D3.C19665A6@nationwide.net> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:19:15 -0500 From: greg kring X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what happens to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the track, then back to street gas all week. Greg Kring Arlington, Texas From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 05:37:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA02834 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:37:25 -0400 Received: from bo.nznet.gen.nz (ns1.nznet.gen.nz [203.167.232.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA02831 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 05:37:21 -0400 Received: from amiga3k (ms2-37.nznet.gen.nz [203.167.232.167]) by bo.nznet.gen.nz (8.8.7/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA07603 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:38:22 +1200 Date: 13 Apr 99 21:33:06 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: Re: Torque measurement To: "Gary Derian" In-Reply-To: <007301be850a$5615f7c0$d401d4cd@gderian> Message-ID: <1114.772T318T12932297@geocities.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: THOR 2.5a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cool! Doesn't look feasable though. It would be a very good sensor to have that resolution. In first gear the torque is much greater but still same order of magnatude which you aren't going to detect with a coulpe of hall sensors and a magnet chip on a 10cm diamater cv joint! Gary Derian wrote: >Torsional deflection, in radians, for a solid bar is ((L*32)/(pi*d^4))*(T/G) >where d is the diameter, T is torque and G is shear modulus. For your axle, >I calculate 0.00267 which is 0.15 degrees. >Gary Derian >> >> What about putting a postion sensor on both the inner and outer CV joint >(for >> front wheel drive engine) and measuring the twist in the driveshaft? >> >> My Mini has a 450mm by 25mm driveshaft. >> >> Anyone know rough calculations for torque v twist? >> >> The motor puts about 340 Nm on the ground (100Nm at the crank) in top >gear. >> >> -- >> Tom Parker - tparker@geocities.com >> - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ -- Tom Parker - parkert@geocities.com - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 08:38:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA04354 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:38:33 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA04350 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:38:31 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.62]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id IAA06688 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006101be85aa$64f40200$3e633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <3712D3D3.C19665A6@nationwide.net> Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:37:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: greg kring To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have absolutely no doumentation on it. But: Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded fuels, with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, one way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy about what is in the gasoline we buy. Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps reduce stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what is actually killing the sensors. One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe to the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... Bruce Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl move under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got in trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what happens > to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of > the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip > using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the > sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy > to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The > whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide > open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. > Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the > track, then back to street gas all week. > Greg Kring > Arlington, Texas > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 09:13:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04906 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:13:11 -0400 Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04902 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:13:10 -0400 Received: from mihmp ([152.11.20.200]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA280B for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:12:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000401be85ae$e335a520$c8140b98@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> From: "David A. Cooley" To: Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:09:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Actually, The Export models of cars that are destined for countries with leaded fuels have the PCM's calibrated to operate with no O2 sensors or cats. As an example, the Export exhaust system for the impala SS is an H pipe from the manifolds down to the intermediate pipe that replaces the cats and has no bungs for O2 sensors... The Saudi Syclone/Typhoons were the same way... No cats, no O2 sensors. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:03 AM Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: greg kring >To: >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM >Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > >Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have >absolutely no doumentation on it. But: > Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded fuels, >with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. > The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, one >way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an >additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy >about what is in the gasoline we buy. > Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. > The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps reduce >stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what is >actually killing the sensors. > One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe to >the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... >Bruce > Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl move >under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got in >trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > >> I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what happens >> to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of >> the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip >> using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the >> sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy >> to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The >> whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide >> open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. >> Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the >> track, then back to street gas all week. >> Greg Kring >> Arlington, Texas >> > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 10:29:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06138 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:29:13 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06135 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:29:12 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.103]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA17034 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005701be85b9$d99f6ae0$67633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <000401be85ae$e335a520$c8140b98@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:28:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: David A. Cooley To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:09 AM Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? Ya but the Holdens used O2 sensors in New Zeland the whole time. The Saudi sy's had an O2, they snipped the wire thou. There are some posts in the archives, where people have exported cars to countries using leaded fuels and did just fine. Bruce > Actually, > The Export models of cars that are destined for countries with leaded fuels > have the PCM's calibrated to operate with no O2 sensors or cats. As an > example, the Export exhaust system for the impala SS is an H pipe from the > manifolds down to the intermediate pipe that replaces the cats and has no > bungs for O2 sensors... The Saudi Syclone/Typhoons were the same way... No > cats, no O2 sensors. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Plecan > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:03 AM > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: greg kring > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM > >Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > >Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have > >absolutely no doumentation on it. But: > > Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded fuels, > >with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. > > The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, > one > >way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an > >additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy > >about what is in the gasoline we buy. > > Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. > > The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps reduce > >stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what > is > >actually killing the sensors. > > One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe to > >the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... > >Bruce > > Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl move > >under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got in > >trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > > > >> I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what happens > >> to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of > >> the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip > >> using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the > >> sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy > >> to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The > >> whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide > >> open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. > >> Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the > >> track, then back to street gas all week. > >> Greg Kring > >> Arlington, Texas > >> > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 10:50:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06545 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:50:36 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06542 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:50:35 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA15833 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:48:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904131448.JAA15833@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny10-14.ix.netcom.com(198.211.18.78) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma015690; Tue Apr 13 09:47:45 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 09:37:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar In-reply-to: <004401be851e$b239d440$58594dd1@computor> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just open hood and pull out the relay. This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip anything over 5 mph when slipping. For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. Alex > Use a tech2 or diacom to look at if torque management is being used. > Northstars don't have a lot of torque. > Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Roger Heflin > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 6:58 AM > Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar > > > > > > > >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Chris Moore wrote: > > > >> Hi everyone, > >> I think you all know the problem I was having. But for those who > >> don't, My wheels will not peel out. I have a power problem in the > >> low end. Again I think it has to do with the Torque Management > >> system on the 4.6 Northstar. I was looking into just making a pulse > >> generator to produce a wheel speed signal and run it into the brake > >> module. But I was thinking. The Northstar has two wires that run > >> into the PCM from the EBTCM(Electronic Brake Traction Control Module) > >> that have to do with the controling of the Torque Management. The > >> first wire is Delivered Torque and the second wire is Desired Torque > >> Output. These are the wires that let the PCM know how many injectors > >> to shut down and how much timing to retard. It is read by a scanner > >> by percentage.0% to 100%. Now, common sense tells me that one of the > >> wires are a power wire and one is a ground or a return. Is there any > >> way that I could run the correct voltage to the PCM that will say > >> that there is 0% of Torque Management and that would do away with the > >> EBTCM all together. With that being done, that would save me all the > >> hassles of trying to fool the EBTCM. There are other variables to > >> that we would have to try to fool like the RPM, VSS, Throttle > >> position. If we could just figure out how much voltage to send than > >> we could just get rid of the EBTCM and all the other variables would > >> not matter. I hope someone can help me. Thanks everyone for the > >> help. > >> > >> Chris Moore > > > >Probably the best way to figure out what needs to be input is to find > >a helm manual for the car you got the engine from. The mhelm I have > >for my car hass quite a bit of detail on the wiring and what sort of > >signals and ranges are supposed to be on those wires. If the wires > >are "delivered torque" and "desired torque" then making sure the > >"desired torque" is a higher value than the "delivered torque" would > >probably make everything work correctly. And assuming (dangerous) > >that the input signals are both 5V, rig a voltage divider and give the > >"desired torque" a bit higher value than the delievered torque, and > >the computer should no longer back things off. The sure way to know > >though would be to find/borrow a copy of the helm for that car and > >study the section on the traction control system. > > > > Roger > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 12:59:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09421 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:59:47 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09418 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:59:46 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:00:55 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.17] by grolen.com id 67170.wrk; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:56:46 EDT Message-ID: <37137583.E4D3FB52@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:49:07 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar References: <199904131448.JAA15833@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It's an engine swap in a Fiero. He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine controls. Should he disconnect them? Shannen xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Just open hood and pull out the relay. > This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. > I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, > Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. > which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. > These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any > crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, > and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot > lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip > anything over 5 mph when slipping. > For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for > control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. > I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions > in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. > Alex > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 14:45:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11268 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:45:21 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11265 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:45:20 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id NAA29033 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:43:31 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904131843.NAA29033@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny10-45.ix.netcom.com(198.211.18.109) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma028927; Tue Apr 13 13:43:03 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:33:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar In-reply-to: <37137583.E4D3FB52@grolen.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > It's an engine swap in a Fiero. > He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine > controls. Should he disconnect them? > Shannen Just electrical relay box. The hydraulic brakes and mechanical systems will still work. Just in case try on street with no children and bring insurance card. Alex From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 16:04:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA12827 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:04:35 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12823 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:04:34 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.103]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA07300 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01db01be85e8$b0b03f40$67633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <199904131919.OAA21543@millenicom.millenicom.com> Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:03:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Jones To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:25 PM Subject: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER GM used them on the early BBC Chevy pickups. Would I insult ya if I said it's mentioned in the archives, I think the part no too. Bruce > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > manifold. > Has anyone seen one advertised? > thanks > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 16:17:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13149 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:17:16 -0400 Received: from problem.problem.org (gateway.problem.org [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13145 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:17:14 -0400 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m10X9ZP-0000H9C; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:14:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: <199904131919.OAA21543@millenicom.millenicom.com> from "Eugene Jones" at Apr 13, 99 03:25:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > manifold. > Has anyone seen one advertised? > thanks edelbrock among others used to sell 2-4bbls adaptors maybe you can modify one of those they are in the $ 20 range Clive From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 16:22:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13458 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:22:51 -0400 Received: from MNSi.Net (e450.mnsi.net [206.48.122.98]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13455 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:22:50 -0400 Received: from Todd (dyn208-28-61-74.cha.mnsi.net [208.28.61.74]) by MNSi.Net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id QAA11451 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:21:02 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413162530.008155d0@in.mnsi.net> X-Sender: israels@in.mnsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:25:30 -0400 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Todd Israels Subject: Re: DFI vs TEC II In-Reply-To: <19990405165134.73917.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 09:51 AM 4/5/99 PDT, you wrote: >Posted this question a few days ago and never saw it come across, so >I'll try again. > >Looking for advice concerning which EFI computer to use. I'm at the >point where I need to buy the EFI computer for my twin turbo SBC, in a >street/strip '81 Corvette. I'll be using a two bar sensor and want to >run it as a MAP system. Looking at the DFI and the TEC II systems. The >DFI seems to be very popular and is widely used. I remember seeing >several of these computers in use at the Silver State Classic two years >ago. > >The TEC II is touted as the best thing next to the expensive Motec >system. It has a data logging feature and many options for the various >types of software available, such as MAP, MAF. However, by time you pay >for the software license, the TEC II seems to be more expensive. > >Based on experience is the TEC II worth the extra $$, or is the DFI >everything needed? Is one easier to tune than the other? Does one >system do a better job of fine tuning fuel and ignition? >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > I have not used either but looked at both for a friend and chose TEC II because of the DIS ignition eliminates the distributor at the back of the motor on SBC for some applications. The DFI people seemed more helpful on the phone and more focused on the hot rod market. The system installed and started on a base map just fine. Took a bi to be familiar with it but I got it tuned to be a bit ritch especialy if you realy had your foot in it . The cat was removed and the car was taken to another shop to have the bigger turbo installed and finla tunning. It was driven for a month first no problem but minor soot at rear. (the car was an early turbo Trans Am, and i dinden want to melt anything in the newly rebuilt engine.) The other system we considerd in the simple digital systems in western Canada. The were cheaper and looked easier to get started with for not so computer literate people, since no software is required. If this is a first FI install nad you plan to keep it a long time the most important issues are service and support. You will need help and replacement parts. Todd Israels From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 16:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA13579 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:27:07 -0400 Received: from MNSi.Net (ns1.mnsi.net [206.48.122.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA13575 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:27:02 -0400 Received: from Todd (dyn208-28-61-74.cha.mnsi.net [208.28.61.74]) by MNSi.Net (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with SMTP id QAA14202 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:25:10 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413162940.00816990@in.mnsi.net> X-Sender: israels@in.mnsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:29:40 -0400 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Todd Israels Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER In-Reply-To: <199904131919.OAA21543@millenicom.millenicom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 03:25 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet >manifold. >Has anyone seen one advertised? >thanks > A 1/4 inch alluminum plate some transfer punches and a jigsaw(or mill) is al that is needed to make one if none available. Todd Israels From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 17:19:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA14804 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:19:24 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA14800 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:19:22 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:20:33 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id 8a0b4.wrk; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:16:22 EDT Message-ID: <3713B25A.D5778A9B@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:08:42 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Racing ECM available from GM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Maybe discontinued, but 1993 Olds Rocketparts book shows part no. 22551577 ECM for offroad applications using quad 4 engine, uses factory inputs, supports "rocket recorder"??? data acquisition system, and race cal's are available as sub part nos. Anyone have more info? Also available is motorsports wiring harness # 22551578 for above ECM, which has needed circuits only for use in racing classes. This stuff may be mainly intended for SCCA classes. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 17:33:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15058 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:33:04 -0400 Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15054 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:33:01 -0400 Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id HAA13224 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:31:10 +1000 (EST) Received: from Mothra (dialup-t1-206.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.206]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id HAA10587 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:37:15 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199904132137.HAA10587@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Simon & Heidi Young" To: Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 14:34:48 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Finally something I can contribute to, I'm still learning all this EFI stuff. Of course sequential boxes are kinda EFI related as one of the advantages they bring is the capacity to set up a "shift withou lift" system, programmed through the ECU. It woult be possible to rig a hydraulic or electro-mechanical system to make an H pattern box shift like a sequential (ie the lever acts like a seq.), the question is why bother, it will likely be more clumsy and innefficient than a properly set up H pattern. Anyway, if the box has synchros you will probably not be able to use the faster shift speed a seq. system may give you. The other alternative would be to modify the box to make it a true sequential. This would involve mounting the forks on a rail where they are free to slide and adding the "barrel" to make the right fork engage as the previous one disengages. Yes it's done exactly like a motorcycle box. Entirely possible and a challenging project for a well equipped machinist but for the DIYist ? I know where you are coming from though, how slick do those CART/BTCC/WRC shifts look. Simon Young Sunbury, Australia From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 17:34:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15141 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:34:24 -0400 Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15137 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:34:22 -0400 Received: from pft101.rh.psu.edu (209-122-217-47.s47.tnt1.atn.pa.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.217.47]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA10720 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:40:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990413174037.00685b70@pop.erols.com> X-Sender: pxtx@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:40:37 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Paul Tholey Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar In-Reply-To: <37137583.E4D3FB52@grolen.com> References: <199904131448.JAA15833@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu My vote is NO, cause the engine works as part of the traction control, cutting up to 5 cyl out. If the ABS light turns on and you press the throttle, the engine will begin to cut cyl. out to pick up for the ABS fault. HTH Paul Tholey At 12:49 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: >It's an engine swap in a Fiero. >He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine >controls. Should he disconnect them? >Shannen > >xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: >> >> Just open hood and pull out the relay. >> This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. >> I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, >> Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. >> which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. >> These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any >> crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, >> and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot >> lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip >> anything over 5 mph when slipping. >> For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for >> control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. >> I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions >> in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. >> Alex >> > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 17:51:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15539 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:51:44 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15536 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:51:40 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:52:44 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id 8e100.wrk; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:48:32 EDT Message-ID: <3713B9E3.695D50A@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:40:51 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER References: <199904131919.OAA21543@millenicom.millenicom.com> <01db01be85e8$b0b03f40$67633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Pretty sure I remember doing some research to get that number. It's called a "heater" in GM speak. Shannen Bruce Plecan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Jones > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:25 PM > Subject: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER > > GM used them on the early BBC Chevy pickups. > Would I insult ya if I said it's mentioned in the archives, I think the part > no too. > Bruce > > > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > > manifold. > > Has anyone seen one advertised? > > thanks > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 17:56:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA15624 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:56:04 -0400 Received: from prod1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-73.s10.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.73]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15616 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:55:40 -0400 Received: from PROD1 ([172.16.0.1]) by prod1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id 25BTVRFS; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:52:13 -0400 Message-ID: <000401be85f7$e394aae0$010010ac@prod1.xephic.dynip.com> From: "Frederic Breitwieser" To: , Subject: Re: DFI vs TEC II Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:52:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >types of software available, such as MAP, MAF. However, by time you pay >for the software license, the TEC II seems to be more expensive. Actually I did in fact reply to your message... however I just built a new server because the old one foobar'd, therefore maybe it didn't make it through successfully. I have a fair amount of experience with Haltach and TecII, and for a forced induction engine, its a mere toss-up. The one major, major advantage of the TEC-II is that its an under-hood bolt together system that uses OEM sensors (or Electromotive sensors - same thing) using spade connectors. The TEC units have screw terminals everywhere, and you can interface this to your engine very easily. Go to the junkyard, buy sensors, and take the wires going to said sensors and cut them as far back as you can. Reduces the price significantly actually. The software is very expensive, however it is as flexible as you can imagine. Boost, no boost, MAP/MAF, etc, and you can change your configuration very easily as you add one or two turbochargers . I think compared between the two, the TEC II is the leader. Bolt it to your firewall, and its done. From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 18:19:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA16301 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:19:16 -0400 Received: from smtp8.ny.us.ibm.com (smtp8.ny.us.ibm.com [198.133.22.20]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA16296 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:19:15 -0400 From: kv@us.ibm.com Received: from westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.132.205]) by smtp8.ny.us.ibm.com (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA85188 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 18:15:26 -0400 Received: from d53mta07h.boulder.ibm.com (d53mta07h.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.142.7]) by westrelay02.boulder.ibm.com (8.8.8m2/NCO v1.8) with SMTP id QAA155258 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:16:57 -0600 Received: by d53mta07h.boulder.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 87256752.007A64AB ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:16:51 -0600 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMUS To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <87256752.007A63BE.00@d53mta07h.boulder.ibm.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:16:45 -0600 Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have an adapter from Transdapt that mates a big block TB to a SB TBI manifold. I also thought I just recently saw a special manifold ---er --- maybe that was to stick a TBI manifold on the old style 350 heads... I think that is what it was- ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com Shannen Durphey on 04/13/99 02:40:51 PM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: (bcc: Kevin Vannorsdel/San Jose/IBM) Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Pretty sure I remember doing some research to get that number. It's called a "heater" in GM speak. Shannen Bruce Plecan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene Jones > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:25 PM > Subject: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER > > GM used them on the early BBC Chevy pickups. > Would I insult ya if I said it's mentioned in the archives, I think the part > no too. > Bruce > > > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > > manifold. > > Has anyone seen one advertised? > > thanks > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 21:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18145 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:04:12 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18142 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:04:10 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA05192 for mail_from ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:02:20 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:02:00 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: DFI vs TEC II Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >At 09:51 AM 4/5/99 PDT, you wrote: >>Posted this question a few days ago and never saw it come across, so >>I'll try again. >> >>Looking for advice concerning which EFI computer to use. I'm at the >>point where I need to buy the EFI computer for my twin turbo SBC, in a >>street/strip '81 Corvette. I'll be using a two bar sensor and want to >>run it as a MAP system. Looking at the DFI and the TEC II systems. The >>DFI seems to be very popular and is widely used. I remember seeing >>several of these computers in use at the Silver State Classic two years >>ago. >> >>The TEC II is touted as the best thing next to the expensive Motec >>system. It has a data logging feature and many options for the various >>types of software available, such as MAP, MAF. However, by time you pay >>for the software license, the TEC II seems to be more expensive. >> >>Based on experience is the TEC II worth the extra $$, or is the DFI >>everything needed? Is one easier to tune than the other? Does one >>system do a better job of fine tuning fuel and ignition? >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> Take a hard look at Autronics if Motec is too rich for you. Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 21:43:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18542 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:43:03 -0400 Received: from wagner.mtco.com (mail.mtco.com [206.102.132.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18539 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:43:01 -0400 Received: from mtco.com (tnt4-42.mtco.com [206.69.130.42]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA05760 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:41:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3713F298.A78E30A7@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:42:48 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 302 vs 460 References: <3712B883.9E85F28D@mtco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Tom Sharpe wrote: > Pat Ford wrote: > > probly a cobra kit car, > > yadayadayada. I appologize to the list for carrying on, but Cobra drivers are wound different. I meant to send the message offlist but failed again. Sharpe From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 21:43:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA18557 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:43:44 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA18554 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:43:42 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id UAA05514 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:41:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904140141.UAA05514@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny15-11.ix.netcom.com(198.211.19.139) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005477; Tue Apr 13 20:41:15 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:31:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Another Question about the Northstar In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990413174037.00685b70@pop.erols.com> References: <37137583.E4D3FB52@grolen.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Slight correction, on dyno with relay in the ABS light goes on at 53 mph and engine and brakes work fine. If you do pull relay the engine and brakes also work ok. If the car has antislip you can not get it to run over 5 mph. on a dyno. Here you are simulating doing a burn out on ice. The car sounds very strange in drive train and engine almost stalls. I did not realize the cyls.were cutting out. I thought it was in differential and transmission. To get it to run pull the relay which is simular to ABS. I usally pull both since I have limited time on dyno to figure which one it is. The only American car I ran was a Ford sedan. The owners manual said, if you want to disable antislip there is a switch located in the left side of glovebox. I tried this, but it seemed to only turn off with engine running and you had to press it on every start. I found this out during a cold start test. So I just yanked the relay out thru it across the room. came back in 8 hrs and car ran fine. Alex > My vote is NO, cause the engine works as part of the traction control, > cutting up to 5 cyl out. If the ABS light turns on and you press the > throttle, the engine will begin to cut cyl. out to pick up for the ABS fault. > > HTH > > Paul Tholey > > At 12:49 PM 4/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > >It's an engine swap in a Fiero. > >He's installed the brake/traction control module as well as engine > >controls. Should he disconnect them? > >Shannen > > > >xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: > >> > >> Just open hood and pull out the relay. > >> This common problem on chassis dynos, the car will not even go. > >> I have not tested any NorthStars so not sure of exact location, > >> Usally a large rectangular black box similiar to ABS relay. > >> which you can also pull if you do not want ABS. > >> These are rather fail safe systems so you should not have any > >> crash problems. You could hook up a dash mounted switch, > >> and label it burn out, most Euro cars have this. Note your idiot > >> lights will go on. ABS at the 1st occurence of 55, antislip > >> anything over 5 mph when slipping. > >> For data line I have seen wheel messages on the obd2 bus, but for > >> control probably uses higher speed CAN Class C protocol. > >> I was working on a Class B intercept box for alt fuel conversions > >> in 96 but have not looked into traction and brake systems yet. > >> Alex > >> > > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 22:32:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19010 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:32:16 -0400 Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19007 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:32:15 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D75P8SN4; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:25:28 EDT To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 23:23:42 -0400 Subject: Holley Pro-Jection 4D instructions Message-ID: <19990413.232342.4070.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,5-14 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I just purchased the six-knob programmer that is used on Holley Pro-Jection 4D. I am using it on my 4Di to more easily "rough in" the settings. Unfortunately, I lost the instructions for using it. If anyone has the instructions and can scan or fax them, I will be eternally grateful. If you scan the instructions, please send them to: cosmicray@provide.net. My Juno.com account doesn't receive binaries. Thanks in advance, Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Tue Apr 13 22:37:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA19082 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:37:13 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA19079 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:37:12 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id VAA00682 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:34:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199904140234.VAA00682@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny4-23.ix.netcom.com(198.211.16.215) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma000642; Tue Apr 13 21:34:19 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:24:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? In-reply-to: <005701be85b9$d99f6ae0$67633acf@nacelp> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There is some bosch part numbers in archive (not wide band) I pulled when out of a German car last year, the exhaust shroud was rather large and strange, and had accumulated alot of round deposits (lead) so probably in trash can. The catalyst has been known to go bad rather rapidly with leaded gas. alex > From: "Bruce Plecan" > To: > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:28:06 -0400 > Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David A. Cooley > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:09 AM > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > Ya but the Holdens used O2 sensors in New Zeland the whole time. > The Saudi sy's had an O2, they snipped the wire thou. > There are some posts in the archives, where people have exported cars to > countries using leaded fuels and did just fine. > Bruce > > > > Actually, > > The Export models of cars that are destined for countries with leaded > fuels > > have the PCM's calibrated to operate with no O2 sensors or cats. As an > > example, the Export exhaust system for the impala SS is an H pipe from the > > manifolds down to the intermediate pipe that replaces the cats and has no > > bungs for O2 sensors... The Saudi Syclone/Typhoons were the same way... No > > cats, no O2 sensors. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bruce Plecan > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:03 AM > > Subject: Re: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: greg kring > > >To: > > >Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:19 AM > > >Subject: effect of leaded gas on wideband O2? > > > > > >Now bear this in mind that this is just personal theory, and I have > > >absolutely no doumentation on it. But: > > > Up until the last year or so Some countries were using only leaded > fuels, > > >with O2 sensors. So the issue of being leaded, is void, in my book. > > > The US and some other countries have outlawed unleaded for street use, > > one > > >way to make that law totally enforceable for late model cars is using an > > >additive that kills O2 sensors. Which also explains some of the secrecy > > >about what is in the gasoline we buy. > > > Also, explains way there is such a large opinion as to O2 life. > > > The WB O2s all seem to be heated, and I just wonder if that helps > reduce > > >stuff from accumulating on the sensor during warm-up, which might be what > > is > > >actually killing the sensors. > > > One of the designers of the Fel-Pro unit used to/might still subscribe > to > > >the GN/Ttype list, just be sure to mention Buick V-6 in your post.... > > >Bruce > > > Sneezy's in trouble again. Was a Hooters and thought he saw an owl > move > > >under one of the gals shirt. He tried protecting here, and some how got > in > > >trouble for that.... Just doesn't pay trying to be a good samaritian > > > > > >> I know leaded gas will poison a standard oxygen sensor, but what > happens > > >> to the UEGO wideband sensor under repeated use with leaded gas? Most of > > >> the racers I know just leave their standard sensor in at the dragstrip > > >> using leaded gas, then switch back to unleaded for the street. When the > > >> sensor goes bad, about once or twice a year, they just replace it. Easy > > >> to do with a 30 buck sensor, not so with a high dollar wideband. The > > >> whole purpose of the wideband on my Fel-Pro system is to tune at wide > > >> open throttle, which happens at the track with 116 octane leaded gas. > > >> Any ideas on life expectancy? We are talking 5 or 6 passes down the > > >> track, then back to street gas all week. > > >> Greg Kring > > >> Arlington, Texas > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 01:56:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA22279 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:56:24 -0400 Received: from pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca (pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca [142.232.189.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA22276 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:56:23 -0400 Received: by pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca(Lotus SMTP MTA Internal build v4.6.2 (651.2 6-10-1998)) id 88256753.001FA522 ; Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:45:38 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: BCITMAIN From: "Peter Fenske" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <88256753.001FA391.00@pumpkin.bcit.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 22:45:33 -0700 Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howday Not quite sure but check out Holley PN 17-41 or PN 17-45 GL:peter From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 07:47:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24962 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:47:57 -0400 Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24959 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:47:55 -0400 Received: from casts10.casts (207-172-210-254.s254.tnt2.nrf.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.210.254]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA05087 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37147FE0.3254@smtp.erols.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:45:36 -0400 From: Nico Over Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: LOOKING FOR AN ADAPTER References: <199904131919.OAA21543@millenicom.millenicom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Eugene Jones wrote: > > I am looking for an adapter to use a GM tbi on a 4barrel Holly or Q-Jet > manifold. > Has anyone seen one advertised? > thanks I got one from Turbo City awhile back, It adapt the GM TBI to the square bore Holley bolt pattern. Was a bit pricey as I remember but it does work. Nico http://www.turbocity.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 07:52:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA25033 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:52:17 -0400 Received: from web121.yahoomail.com (web121.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA25030 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:52:15 -0400 Message-ID: <19990414115340.17419.rocketmail@web121.yahoomail.com> Received: from [136.1.1.18] by web121.yahoomail.com; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:53:40 PDT Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:53:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Roy Subject: Re: DFI vs TEC II To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu --- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > >types of software available, such as MAP, MAF. > However, by time you pay > >for the software license, the TEC II seems to be > more expensive. > > Actually I did in fact reply to your message... > however I just built a new > server because the old one foobar'd, therefore maybe > it didn't make it > through successfully. > > I have a fair amount of experience with Haltach and > TecII, and for a forced > induction engine, its a mere toss-up. The one > major, major advantage of the > TEC-II is that its an under-hood bolt together > system that uses OEM sensors > (or Electromotive sensors - same thing) using spade > connectors. The TEC > units have screw terminals everywhere, and you can > interface this to your > engine very easily. Go to the junkyard, buy > sensors, and take the wires > going to said sensors and cut them as far back as > you can. Reduces the > price significantly actually. The software is very > expensive, however it is > as flexible as you can imagine. Boost, no boost, > MAP/MAF, etc, and you can > change your configuration very easily as you add one > or two turbochargers > . > > I think compared between the two, the TEC II is the > leader. Bolt it to your > firewall, and its done. > > More info on TEC11 please and would it work on a 5 > cylinder engine. > > Thanks Roy > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 11:17:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA28312 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:17:34 -0400 Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA28309 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:17:33 -0400 Received: (qmail 13286 invoked from network); 14 Apr 1999 09:15:38 -0600 Received: from ts6-27.rpt.cyberhighway.net (HELO gm) (209.161.38.153) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 1999 09:15:38 -0600 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:18:09 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE8657.B6B75EE0.rmjones@cyberhighway.net> From: "M. Jones" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Holley Pro-Jection 4D instructions Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:18:09 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If I can remember (!) I'll scan them tonight and e-mail them to you directly. Mike J. ---------- From: Raymond C Drouillard[SMTP:cosmic.ray@juno.com] Reply To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 9:23 PM To: DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Holley Pro-Jection 4D instructions I just purchased the six-knob programmer that is used on Holley Pro-Jection 4D. I am using it on my 4Di to more easily "rough in" the settings. Unfortunately, I lost the instructions for using it. If anyone has the instructions and can scan or fax them, I will be eternally grateful. If you scan the instructions, please send them to: cosmicray@provide.net. My Juno.com account doesn't receive binaries. Thanks in advance, Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 11:43:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA29094 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:43:14 -0400 Received: from bluegill.adi.com (bluegill.adi.com [206.7.181.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29091; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:43:12 -0400 Received: from pickerel.adi.com (pickerel.adi.com [206.7.181.140]) by adi.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/ADI-8.4-DNI-2) with ESMTP id LAA16900; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pickerel (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pickerel.adi.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/ADI-8.4) with SMTP id LAA04891; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:41:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3714B714.7D6C@adi.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:41:08 -0400 From: David Rhoads Organization: Applied Dynamics International X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, efi332@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: eec@eelink.net Subject: Simulation/Modeling Tools Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Help ... I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various modeling/simluation languages/tools used in industry over the years. Things such as product, used in what industries/type of applications, pros & cons, etc. Any insights into various packages or websites with good overview info would be greatly appreciated. If you consider this topic inappropriate for the group list, please e-mail me directly. TIA -- . David Rhoads II . Applied Dynamics International . 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 . (734) 973-1300 . rhoads@adi.com website: www.adi.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 12:29:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA30494 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:29:07 -0400 Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA30491 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:29:05 -0400 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA16073; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 88256753.0059D8DB ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:21:22 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: "Frederic Breitwieser" , Todd Israels Message-ID: <88256753.0059D46F.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:19:19 -0700 Subject: TEC II heat notes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> Electromotive has decent support. Example: TEC II unit was heat soaked beyond belief, and would not take a new program of communicate w/ the laptop at all. Sent it back to Electro, and they didn't find anything wrong. Then, they heat cycled it...and discovered that the solder around the EPROM was melting at temp. Fixed the problem, unit sent back...all is well. I really don't think you'll need any replacement parts for the TEC II (if you don't heat soak it!). Most people don't balance the crank wheel well enough, so at high rpm the magnetic pickup gets destroyed (by the out of round teeth of the crank wheel). Most people run a little bit more of an air gap than Electromotive recommends (let's say .025", instead of .015"...this helps eliminate the "runout" problem). We aren't using a crank wheel (we tapped the factory engine speed sensor signal), so I don't have to be concerned about that. <> Keyword is "firewall". The heat soak problem I mentioned was due to the TEC II being mounted to the side of an Aluminum cylinder head (where the distributor used to be). The thermal conductivity of the mounting plate, combined with high under hood temps...simply overwhelmed the TEC II unit, when the car was shut off and left to sit for more than 30 minutes. We fabbed a SS heat shield, and sandwiched some ceramic header tape between the TEC II and the cylinder head. No problems at all. BUT...I highly recommend mounting the TEC II as far away from the engine as possible. Get it in the battery tray, the airbox location, the firewall...whatever. Just get it away from the engine. It can handle 180F air temps, but it has it's limits (we found them). It's better to make custom plug wires (in my case, we're talking custom length VW VR6 BERU plug boots w/ GM HEI coil boots) that allow you to mount the TEC II anywhere...than to have it get heat soaked. I think the car in question had something to do with it too. The VW Corrado VR6 engine compartment was designed for a supercharged 1.8L four cyl., and not a 2.8L V6 engine. The VR6 is a high temp engine to start with, but in a small engine compartment...things get hot under there. Very hot. Add a turbo, and temps are even higher. I can't wait for that problem. =( Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 12:42:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA30860 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:42:31 -0400 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA30857 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:42:29 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id LAA01167; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:41:25 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma001142; Wed, 14 Apr 99 11:40:40 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA21016; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:39:51 -0500 Message-ID: <3714C42F.FEA6D8BC@arm.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:37:03 -0500 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools References: <3714B714.7D6C@adi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Scientific American had an article about car companies using finite element type software to simulate crashes, sometime in the last 3 months or so. They mentioned at least 2 FE programs that car companies use. --steve David Rhoads wrote: > > Help ... > > I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that > I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various > modeling/simluation languages/tools used in industry over the years. > Things such as product, used in what industries/type of applications, > pros & cons, etc. Any insights into various packages or websites with > good overview info would be greatly appreciated. > > If you consider this topic inappropriate for the group list, please > e-mail me directly. > > TIA > > -- > . David Rhoads II > . Applied Dynamics International > . 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 > . (734) 973-1300 > . rhoads@adi.com website: www.adi.com -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 21:40:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA07676 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:40:04 -0400 Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA07673 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:40:02 -0400 Received: from tensecgn.ici.net (d-ma-superpop-6.ici.net [207.180.40.6]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA05963 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37067A3E.6EF7@ici.net> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 15:29:50 -0500 From: Tony Garcia Organization: G.N. Performance X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Software and programing cable References: <19990403132017.92367.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi everyone.Does anyone have an extra programing cable for the Acell dfi.Also any updated software.Thanks Tony From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 22:18:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA08446 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:18:08 -0400 Received: from postoffice.tidalwave.com (postoffice.tidalwave.com [208.214.129.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08443 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:18:06 -0400 Received: from mailchute.tidalwave.com (mailchute.tidalwave.com [208.214.129.18]) by postoffice.tidalwave.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31E12BB38; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:15:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mbs (mailchute.tidalwave.com [208.214.129.18]) by mailchute.tidalwave.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9479B2BAE9; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:15:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02bb01be86ff$fef4ef80$1504d3d0@mbs> From: "Michael Selig" To: Subject: 4 x 4 Fuel Injection Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:22:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am new to this list. I am an owner of a 350 gas Hummer for the last 3 years. Many on the Hummer mailing list have been talking about putting in a Whipple -worm type superchargers. I make claims that there have been reports that the whipple is associated with bottom end going, even with 4 bolts mains blazer engines. Some of the problems with Off road and Fording vehicles--are there watertigtness. I still state that EFI is the way to go. More low end smooth torque. I have been waiting for this current Throttle body injection engine to have problem, but it is hanging in there without a whimper or a miss. This is a post I made this week, based on several references I have come across. I know I have a long way to go.. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Selig To: Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:42 PM Subject: Electronic Multiport Fuel Injection-operations 2-- long winded alert- For those of you gassers who may be interested in these fuel injection systems, they are complex but really do increase gas mileage, throttle response, Hp about 20-40, and torque mostly at low rpms. I have now read 1 book and several articles on fuel injection and am getting a little more familiar with the concepts and hardware. I revised this twice --now it may provide some useful info. Most of the sensors and setup are also present on turbo diesel vehicles, so heads up. BACKGROUND DESCRIPTION: Fuel Injection differs from Carburetors, in that the fuel is pressurized before it enters the intake tract as opposed to being siphoned through a carburetor with engine vacuum. Early Mechanical systems were simply Nozzles and their primary function was to atomize the fuel as it was sprayed. The specific amount of fuel delivered was determined by the injector pump which housed a piston for every injector. The displacement of the piston determined the amount of fuel to be pumped. The piston also pressurized the fuel. The pump had to be accurately, mechanically timed to the engine, like the distributor and camshaft. Mechanical injection systems offered several significant advantages over carburetors, but were plagued by their lack of adaptability as well as expensive production and maintenance costs. Electronic injection although seemingly complex, is simpler in many ways. There are 2 main physical types --Throttle body injection and Multiport. In throttle body, the injectors are placed inside the throttle body housing above the throttle plates. These systems look like regular carbureted engines, and utilize wet manifolds. Wet manifolds carries air and fuel, are more restrictive because the runners most carry the mixture that falls out of suspension and collects on the runner floor. A dry manifold carries only air. The runners can be tailored for operating range of the engine. Multiport injection systems (MPI) have one injector per cylinder (some have 2) placed at the end of each runner of a dry intake manifold. Injectors are mounted 70-100 mm from the intake valve seat and spray atomized fuel at the back side of the intake valve. MPI systems still use a throttle body with specific sized bore, not unlike a carburetor, but monitor only air. The Injectors are specifically sized NOZZLES, but also valve actuated by built in electric solenoids. The electronic Control Module (ECU) determines when each injector opens and for how long. Fuel is provided to all the injectors by a common fuel RAIL, which is pressurized by an electric fuel pump usually located in the fuel tank. High fuel pressure causes atomization of the fuel as it comes out of the nozzles. These systems operate at standard psi and use vacuum. Modulated pressure regulators reduce rail pressure at times ie the amount of fuel delivered at idle. The regulator bleeds off excess fuel pressure back to the tank via a return line. Engines using forced induction are setup to provide additional fuel under BOOST. As a rule, every 1 psi of boost requires an additional 1 psi if fuel pressure. The injectors are sized according to their rate of flow, rather than measured in physical dimensions of spray mechanism. The rate is usually calculated by the amount of fuel that the injector passes in a given time. Aftermarket units use fuel/hour. OEM use a more precise standard- grams or cubic centimeters /second. The size of the injector, pressure and volume of fuel feeding it, are fixed characteristics that effect fuel delivery--the variable is the opening and closing of the injectors. The event that occurs each time an injector opens and closes is called a DUTY CYCLE or a PULSE. The length of time the injector stays open determines the PULSE WIDTH. The longer the pulse width, the more fuel being sprayed. During normal cruise--1 pulse/ firing cylinder. Rapid opening of the throttle-leads to multiple injector pulses per ignition signal. This provides the same enrichment function as the accelerator pump in a carburetor. PULSING is controlled by the Electronic control unit or computer. Raw data is processed and compared to data that has been programmed by the manufacturer, but the unit can also learn about operational or driver patterns of a specific vehicle. The ECU adjusts engine management via Activators.. These systems also come in 2 varieties--SEQUENTIAL vs BATCH Firing. Sequential--fires one injector at a time in a the sequence of the firing order. This offers better performance and fuel economy --but needs more precise controls. BATCH firing--triggers multiple injectors at a time, sometimes according to cylinder bank-as in our gas engines. Injectors open to 1/2 of the programmed pulse width and fire more than one pulse/cylinder/cycle. Therefore only a portion of the total fuel is injected and has to wait for the second half to be delivered, when the intake valve opens. The stock GM Throttle body computer pairs injection pulses. The ideal system sequences the injection pulses individually. There are 2 basic control types-- MAF---MASS AIR FLOW sensed, before 1990 GM and after the SPEED DENSITY SYSTEM. These systems give optimal fuel mixture at all RPMs and have made gas engines very reliable. They involve the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) with a Programmable Read Only Memory (PROM -our favorite) and multiple sensors. These modules are mapped units and sense changes in hardware --lower resistance filters, less exhaust resistance, camshaft changes, ie and adjust accordingly. These units have learning capability and also adjust to gas octane variability, air temp and driving mode (floored). The systems have many sensors, but have been found to be extremely reliable over many years: Mass Air Flow Sensor-MAF--Located in the air intake and measures air flow before reaching the engine. It measures air volume to the cylinder by monitoring the electrical resistance in a thin heated wire as it is cooled by incoming air. The more air that passes though the sensor the more voltage is required to heat it up. This sensor is less affected by engine mods. Air Change Temp sensor. Usually located in the duct from the air cleaner or in the intake manifold. Measure temp of incoming air. Used in conjunction with the TPS. MAP/MAF to determine volumetric efficiency. Idle air control (IAC)-Adjusts idle speed to engine load and temp. Threads into the housing below air intake. Coolant is routed through the IAC housing to enhance cold run operation. Throttle position switch (TPS)- Tells the ECM amount and speed at which the throttle is being opened or closed. Measures angle of throttle plates and how much throttle the operator is using. Calculates Air/fuel mixture needed during acceleration. Stock 0.54 volts. located on the passenger side. Knock Sensor-Works like a microphone to hear knock or pings and retards timing.. Is imperative. Must be installed in tge lower portion of the block. It must correspond with the MAP orMAF. Safeguards against poor quality gas. Engine coolant temp sensor- Usually threaded into the coolant passage of the intake manifold. Data is used to determine cold start or warm up enrichment, idle speed control, spark advance and Air/Fuel mixture. Oil pressure sensor--Cuts fuel in event of oil loss. Acts as a backup if the relay fails. After cranking for 5 seconds with a fail pump relay, the oil sender will detect oil and trigger the pump. Vehicle speed sensor--VVS --The ECU for most factory units use its input. Aftermarket unit eliminate the VSS hookup. The EFI will operate more efficiently ans smoothly with it. Most EFI vehicles use this for the electronic speedometer, eliminating the cable drive. === The SPEED DENSITY SYSTEMS are basically the same as the Mass Air Flow sensed but without the MAF and uses a Manifold absolute sensor (MAP) instead. Later systems use a MAP-manifold absolute pressure sensor. This one is cheaper, simpler, requires only a vacuum connection in addition to a harness connection. Factory systems mount the sensor to the intake manifold and reads manifold pressure. These vehicles need to be reprogrammed if modified. Manifold air temp sensor (MAT)-Sends air temp data to ECM. The MAP--functions like an electronic vacuum gauge--does not change A/F mixture. O2 sensor-Required. Measures O2 in rhe system and converts date to voltage which keeps incoming mixture at STOICHIOMETRIC or chemically ideal Air/Fuel mixture of around 14.7:1. Be they carbureted or injected, engines need to run at specific metered air fuel mixtures. This value changes with rpm and load. Lean or Rich has been used. Lean -too much air. Rich --too much fuel. Air fuel has been stated in N parts of air to a constant 1 part of fuel. Contemporary theory dictates the ideal is 14:1 for catalytic converter operation. Peak horsepower is attained at 13:1 ratio, but Max torque at 12.9:1 at wide open throttle. 16.7:1 is best for fuel economy and a sharp rise in emissions, rendering a catalytic converter ineffective. 12:1 is too rich to produce adequate horsepower and causes converter meltdown, due to inability to burn unused fuel. Excess fuel or too rich also washes oil from the cylinder walls--increasing ring and bore wear. Too lean-leads to cataclysmic event. O2 burns at extremely high temps. Higher combustion temps can lead to pre-ignition which can blow head gaskets and melt pistons. MODES: There is a Limp home mode--in case of major system malfunction. a OPEN LOOP mode-when not under control of the O2 sensor or during warm up or wide open operation. Air fuel is adjusted according to the TPS, engine rpm and other data. CLOSED LOOP-When up to temp, wide open, and gives good gas mileage. GM unit notes: There have been many variations from 1985 to now, so there is a problem with compatibility of parts. The angle of the bolt holes in the intake manifolds vary if you are considering picking up parts a yard. 85-86 manifolds angles same as rest, bolt to older engines. 87-92 center hole drilled at unique angle. Always get complete setup -- sensors, harness, computer, fuel pump and manifold from the same donor car. There are conflicts with Beltdrive accessories, exhaust plumbing, air cleaner. Stand alone wiring harnesses are available. Injectors for the 305 rated at 19 lbs/hour For 350 22 lbs/hour. If using small units and adapting to a 350. install adjustable fuel pressure regular in place if stock. Need higher pressure for smaller injectors. Fuel Lines: Need to be plumbed for High pressure operation--uses flare nut fittings. Need a low pressure return line that should be at least 2/3 tge size of the feed. A vent tube is also needed. Corvette fuel lines on the passenger side, F cars on drivers side. FUEL RAILS: Lines that distribute fuel to all the injectors. Fed by incoming fuel lines, pressurized by the fuel pump and pressure adjusted by the regulator via the Manifold vacuum signal. Connected also to the return line. Fuel pump: Most TPI systems use a min fuel pressure of 40-45 psi, so an electric fuel pump is necessary. Factory pumps are in the fuel tanks. OE tanks have problematic baffling to keep fuel from running away from the sump, during low fuel cornering. If the pump runs dry, the engine stumbles and stalls. The fuel pump also keep cool in the tank. When the pump runs dry it can quickly kill itself. Use an EFI tank with baffling or an external pump with fuel reservoir. PLENUM or upper manifold: All have cast in Passenger EGRS Pre 89s have another passage for cold start system--a triangular port between the 2 throttle openings for the Idle Air Control Circuit. All Plenums have a port for inlet air temp sensor and a power brake vacuum. 90-92 incorporate vacuum for the map sensor. SIDE RUNNERS: The big tubes that connect from Plenum to manifold. Passenger sides are all the same. Drivers side varies. Pre 89 uses the auxiliary injector. Street and Performance offers a plug kit to mate early runners with later electronics. Small tube feeds air to 9th injector--all drivers side units have it. Smaller runners support higher rpm. Throttle bodies: Usually around 48 mm butterflies. Pre 89 have a small triangular port on bottom which matches to the plenum to receive air for the IAC. Distributor: Ignition systems must be compatible with EFI. The ECU reads a signal from the distributor to determine injector firing order. What do you think? Does anyone know anymore?? ms Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment. "Reality will kill you unless you deal with it through myths and metaphors." Ray Bradbury Michael Selig, MD, FACC. www.lifelinecardiology.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 22:40:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA09077 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:40:42 -0400 Received: from radar.wwisp.com (root@radar.wwisp.com [207.98.230.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA09074 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:40:40 -0400 Received: from wwisp.com (bh-p3-1-ppp41.wwisp.com [207.98.225.41]) by radar.wwisp.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10857 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:38:44 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3715519C.B6BF2231@wwisp.com> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:40:28 -0500 From: "Chris G. Lucas" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: wanted corvette transmission References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check www.gearzone.net This is the "Home of Corvette 4+3 Overdrives". There is alot of information on this transmission here. Paul Blaccard (Admin) is very informed of these and other manual transmissions. His email is support@gearzone.net. Sorry it took so long, I am just onlooking the discussion as of now. I am wondering what I need to get started in interfacing the computer of a 94 Z28 6speed. I have no idea where to begin. Thanks Chris Lucas WATCHmeDRV@aol.com wrote: > I am looking for super T10 parts or the complete trans. It's a 4+3 for a > corvette. > If anyone can help me with some parts or a complete trans that you might have > laying around, It would sure help me out. My # is 706-547-0052, if no answer > please leave a message. > Thanks, > DETROIT AMERSON From diy_efi-owner Wed Apr 14 23:46:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA10206 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:46:27 -0400 Received: from vesuve.globetrotter.net (vesuve.globetrotter.net [142.169.1.81]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10203 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:46:26 -0400 Received: from globetrotter.qc.ca (ts1-32.f2006.quebectel.com [142.169.162.102]) by vesuve.globetrotter.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA03758; Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37156104.591A16B4@globetrotter.qc.ca> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:46:16 -0400 From: H Villemure Organization: Memoire Vive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools References: <3714B714.7D6C@adi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu David Rhoads wrote: > > Help ... > > I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that > I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various > modeling/simluation languages/tools The Pro/Eng (Pro/Engineer) package is indeed the most complete one I have seen with mechanical, heat transfer and motion simulations. Hope this helps, -- Helene V. ___________________ welcome to mk2@onelist.com visit us at http://come.to/helene-and-matti From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 03:07:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA12322 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:07:43 -0400 Received: from web115.yahoomail.com (web115.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.88]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA12319 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 03:07:41 -0400 Message-ID: <19990415070727.9879.rocketmail@web115.yahoomail.com> Received: from [136.1.1.18] by web115.yahoomail.com; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:07:27 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:07:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Roy Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Simon " Shift without lift " sounds good and i have heard a little about it, is this where the engine management system reduces engine rpm by cutting cylinders during a gearchange ? If I can be of any help with the EFI stuff let me know Roy --- Simon & Heidi Young wrote: > > Finally something I can contribute to, I'm still > learning all this EFI > stuff. > > Of course sequential boxes are kinda EFI related as > one of the advantages > they bring is the capacity to set up a "shift withou > lift" system, > programmed through the ECU. > > It woult be possible to rig a hydraulic or > electro-mechanical system to > make an H pattern box shift like a sequential (ie > the lever acts like a > seq.), the question is why bother, it will likely be > more clumsy and > innefficient than a properly set up H pattern. > Anyway, if the box has > synchros you will probably not be able to use the > faster shift speed a seq. > system may give you. > > The other alternative would be to modify the box to > make it a true > sequential. This would involve mounting the forks > on a rail where they are > free to slide and adding the "barrel" to make the > right fork engage as the > previous one disengages. Yes it's done exactly like > a motorcycle box. > Entirely possible and a challenging project for a > well equipped machinist > but for the DIYist ? > > I know where you are coming from though, how slick > do those CART/BTCC/WRC > shifts look. > > Simon Young > Sunbury, Australia > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 05:18:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA13341 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:18:50 -0400 Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13337 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:18:48 -0400 From: FHPREMACH@aol.com Received: from FHPREMACH@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.9) id jCQLa07510 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:16:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 05:16:12 EDT Subject: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/14/99 8:47:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, memvive@globetrotter.qc.ca writes: << David Rhoads wrote: > > Help ... > > I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that > I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various > modeling/simluation languages/tools The Pro/Eng (Pro/Engineer) package is indeed the most complete one I have seen with mechanical, heat transfer and motion simulations. Hope this helps, -- Helene V. >> I beg to differ. ProE is a cumbersome package. If you want to use what the big boys use, look to SDRC IDEAS and Fluent Rampant for design and Computational Fluid Dynamics respectively. This is what people like Ford, Ilmor and others of that caliber use. The company (an international aerodynamics research and consulting firm) where I was in charge of design of gaging and database development spent a great deal of time evaluating packages. We talked to a number of companies who had IDEAS and ProE experience and they were fairly unanimous in their recommendation for design and analysis. Fluent is the world leader in CFD for virtually every kind of fluids flow analysis as well as thermal and combustion analysis. IDEAS was recommended by them as a tool for preprocessing the data for their analysis suite. Talk to these people. You will find that they are both companies with strong educational ties. Fred From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 10:42:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA16801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:42:03 -0400 Received: from ihemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [192.11.222.161]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA16792 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:41:57 -0400 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com (h135-5-45-7.lucent.com [135.5.45.7]) by ihemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07030 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id KAA16490; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:39:50 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id KAA16487; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:39:49 -0400 Message-ID: <3715FAB3.258C6E40@lucent.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:41:55 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: wanted corvette transmission References: <3715519C.B6BF2231@wwisp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Chris, Check the gmecm list. Dave and I are working on this PCM. A scanner is available on Dave's web site, http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/1624/ and I have a PCM editor in progress. We are still working on the Flash programmer. I socketed my chips to allow changes for now. Ken "Chris G. Lucas" wrote: > > Check www.gearzone.net This is the "Home of Corvette 4+3 Overdrives". There is > alot of information on this transmission here. Paul Blaccard (Admin) is very > informed of these and other manual transmissions. His email is > support@gearzone.net. Sorry it took so long, I am just onlooking the discussion > as of now. I am wondering what I need to get started in interfacing the computer > of a 94 Z28 6speed. I have no idea where to begin. Thanks > > Chris Lucas > > WATCHmeDRV@aol.com wrote: > > > I am looking for super T10 parts or the complete trans. It's a 4+3 for a > > corvette. > > If anyone can help me with some parts or a complete trans that you might have > > laying around, It would sure help me out. My # is 706-547-0052, if no answer > > please leave a message. > > Thanks, > > DETROIT AMERSON From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 14:40:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20920 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:40:54 -0400 Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20917 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:40:52 -0400 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA16165 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 88256754.0065EFD8 ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:33:25 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <88256754.0065EE95.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:31:23 -0700 Subject: TEC II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <> Unfortunately (for Volvo/Audi folk), the TEC II direct fire ignition coils are dual cylinder firing (and the injector firing scheme is similar). So, the TEC II is limited to an even numbers of cylinders (4,6,8,and 12). Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 14:54:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA21126 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:54:03 -0400 Received: from smtp.WPI.EDU (root@smtp.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.62]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21123 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:53:58 -0400 Received: from bert.WPI.EDU (root@bert.WPI.EDU [130.215.24.121]) by smtp.WPI.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29308 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bobw@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bert.WPI.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16365 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:51:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:51:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Scott Winnicki To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Twincharger controling system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am curently trying to build a controler for my twin charged 87 TII RX7. The car has a 40 CI Supercharger blowing through the stock rx7 turbo. THe SC has a electric clutch and is curently manually operated (via a triger on the shifter) I have two pressure gagues mounted on the car (one pre-Turbo and one post turbo) Right now I usally triger the SC at about -10 Hg then let off on the SC when I see the pre turbo gauge starts to drop. In addition I have a one-way check valve that allows the SC to be bypassed The problem: It is really hard to manually turn on and off the SC during anything but dragging (straight line stop and start) I want to make a circut that will compare the pre turbo and post turbo pressures and operated the SC according. Any ideas? I think I will have to go digital, but I suck at designing circuts. thanks bob From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 17:19:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA24127 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:19:45 -0400 Received: from gamma.aei.ca (root@gamma.aei.ca [206.123.6.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24124 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:19:44 -0400 Received: from ord-laptop (ppp-109-2.mtl.aei.ca [207.107.109.2]) by gamma.aei.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA13069 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:17:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012401be877d$0825a860$3f6f6bcf@ord-laptop> From: "Ord Millar" To: Subject: Re: Twincharger controling system Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:01:12 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It sounds like you could do that with two (or more) 393 type comparators. Because their output is open-collector, you can hardware "AND" or "OR" them if you need to. Maybe a low pass filter first? -----Original Message----- From: Robert Scott Winnicki To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 5:38 PM Subject: Twincharger controling system > >I am curently trying to build a controler for my twin charged 87 TII RX7. >The car has a 40 CI Supercharger blowing through the stock rx7 turbo. THe >SC has a electric clutch and is curently manually operated (via a triger >on the shifter) I have two pressure gagues mounted on the car (one >pre-Turbo and one post turbo) Right now I usally triger the SC at about >-10 Hg then let off on the SC when I see the pre turbo gauge starts to >drop. In addition I have a one-way check valve that allows the SC to be >bypassed > >The problem: It is really hard to manually turn on and off the SC during >anything but dragging (straight line stop and start) > >I want to make a circut that will compare the pre turbo and post turbo >pressures and operated the SC according. Any ideas? I think I will have >to go digital, but I suck at designing circuts. > >thanks >bob > > From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 18:29:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA25304 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:29:12 -0400 Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA25300 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:29:09 -0400 Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id IAA27042 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:27:01 +1000 (EST) Received: from Mothra (dialup-t1-36.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.36]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id IAA27125 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:33:13 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199904152233.IAA27125@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Simon & Heidi Young" To: Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:54:58 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > " Shift without lift " sounds good and i have > heard a little about it, is this where the engine > management system reduces engine rpm by cutting > cylinders during a gearchange ? Sorta. With a dog ring box you can't shift without unloading the box. The dogs have a back cut which locks the gear and dog together under load. SWOL senses the load in the shift lever and unloads the box, letting it change. The exact details of what happens I could never get the engine guys (Cosworth) to tell me but from what I've seen it is little more than the equivalent of backing off the throttle and getting right back on as you would in a normal clutchless change. The turbo engines have a "ninth" butterfly between the turbo and plenum, this is controlled by a servo motor via the ECU, the throttle cable acts on the main butterflys and IGV (inlet guide vane, a system to keep the turbo spooled up while the throttle is closed). In action SWOL simply slams the ninth butterfly closed and open again, enough to free the dogs and let the shift proceed. There may be a spark cut but really it happens so fast I doubt that it is necessary. How things are handled on NA engines I'm not sure. I have seen one article in a local boy racer mag describing how to set up a flat change by sensing clutch depression and activating a rev limiter while you shift, dodgy at best. Simon Sunbury, Australia From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 21:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA28076 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:22:04 -0400 Received: from prod1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-98.s35.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.98]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA28069 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:21:41 -0400 Received: from PROD1 ([172.16.0.1]) by prod1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id JALABYCG; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:21:27 -0400 Message-ID: <001901be87a7$73149710$010010ac@prod1.xephic.dynip.com> From: "Frederic" To: Subject: Whippled Hummers Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:21:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >I am new to this list. I am an owner of a 350 gas Hummer for the last 3 >years. Many on the Hummer mailing list have been talking about putting in a Good choice :) See my tagline :) >Whipple -worm type superchargers. I make claims that there have been >reports that the whipple is associated with bottom end going, even with 4 >bolts mains blazer engines. Some of the problems with Off road and Fording Yes, whipple chargers will absolutely boost the low end, which is where you want it considering the application for the vehicle. >body injection engine to have problem, but it is hanging in there without a >whimper or a miss. This is a post I made this week, based on several Irregardless of engine, forced induction, etc, you have to make sure its absolutely water tight. Being fuel injected or not doesn't make a difference... you can always mount the ECM in a water proof metal box (small milk box-like thing). Gaskets, gaskets, gaskets. EFI has a major advantage over carbs - the engine can run in nearly any position fuel wise. A steep incline can result in lean or rich mixtures with a carb. THis is why my friends and I used a dual-holley intake, and have the carbs facing away from one another, on a steep incline, one's rich one's lean, which helped. Not as much as we hoped. EFI is really the way to go. Use good gaskets and good sealant. ------ Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1975 Dodge D200 Extended Cab/Bed (413 + twin turbos) 2000 Twin Turbo Buick GTP V6 From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 22:08:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA28856 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:08:29 -0400 Received: from vesuve.globetrotter.net (vesuve.globetrotter.net [142.169.1.81]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA28853 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:08:28 -0400 Received: from globetrotter.qc.ca (ts1-20.f2002.quebectel.com [142.169.160.90]) by vesuve.globetrotter.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA19357; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37169BFE.9251490D@globetrotter.qc.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:10:21 -0400 From: H Villemure Organization: Memoire Vive X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu How much $$$? Do you own a copy yourself? FHPREMACH@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 4/14/99 8:47:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > memvive@globetrotter.qc.ca writes: > > << David Rhoads wrote: > > > > Help ... > > > > I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that > > I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various > > modeling/simluation languages/tools > > The Pro/Eng (Pro/Engineer) package is indeed the most complete one I > have seen with mechanical, heat transfer and motion simulations. > > Hope this helps, > -- > Helene V. >> > > I beg to differ. ProE is a cumbersome package. If you want to use what the > big boys use, look to SDRC IDEAS and Fluent Rampant for design and > Computational Fluid Dynamics respectively. This is what people like Ford, > Ilmor and others of that caliber use. The company (an international > aerodynamics research and consulting firm) where I was in charge of design of > gaging and database development spent a great deal of time evaluating > packages. We talked to a number of companies who had IDEAS and ProE > experience and they were fairly unanimous in their recommendation for design > and analysis. Fluent is the world leader in CFD for virtually every kind of > fluids flow analysis as well as thermal and combustion analysis. IDEAS was > recommended by them as a tool for preprocessing the data for their analysis > suite. > Talk to these people. You will find that they are both companies with strong > educational ties. > Fred -- Helene V. ___________________ welcome to mk2@onelist.com visit us at http://come.to/helene-and-matti From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 23:02:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29922 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:02:30 -0400 Received: from millenicom.millenicom.com (root@millenicom.millenicom.com [209.150.128.197]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29919 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:02:29 -0400 Received: from genejone (gvl-pm3a-209.innova.net [206.139.129.209]) by millenicom.millenicom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA03477 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:59:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199904160259.VAA03477@millenicom.millenicom.com> From: "Eugene Jones" To: Subject: tbi adapter Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:07:04 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I asked for an adapter for a tbi to a carb intake and Bruce Plecan responded and others. I would like to find the gm part number to the "heater" adapter for 87-89 bigblock trucks, if anyone has it. no, I could not find it in the efi archives. I have designed a 3/4" aluminum plate that will bolt efi (350 or 454 type) to both a holley 4150/4160 intake or a holley spread-bore(quadrojet) manifolds. if you need a copy of this drawing (in microsoft word format) just let me know. I am having it quoted for machining by a couple of local machine shop (Greenville, S.C.) will post price later. thanks, Gene Jones From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 23:07:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30016 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:07:08 -0400 Received: from lnagate.foxboro.com.au (qmailr@lnagate.foxboro.com.au [202.12.113.254]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA30011 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:06:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 16253 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 03:06:37 -0000 Received: from foxlnqtc.qtc.foxboro.com.au (HELO foxboro.com.au) (202.12.112.10) by gatekeeper.foxboro.com.au with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 03:06:37 -0000 Received: from wayneb-nt (fwserver [202.12.112.56]) by foxboro.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15652; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:06:36 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990416130635.0093c380@mailhost.qtc.foxboro.com.au> X-Sender: wayneb@mailhost.qtc.foxboro.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:06:35 +1000 To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Wayne Blair Subject: ECU or ECM data files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, I've been getting requests for .ecu file for Promedit. Has any one built up any of these files for various ECU. If you could post any info files you'd like to share to the "incoming" area I can point people at it. Or is there a collection of these some where ? There is a newer version of promedit on the ftp site. IF! I get the time I'll enhance the program so it can work with the TUNA style info file also. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< bye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayne [Brisbane Australia] From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 23:08:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30065 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:08:07 -0400 Received: from lnagate.foxboro.com.au (qmailr@lnagate.foxboro.com.au [202.12.113.254]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA30036 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:07:40 -0400 Received: (qmail 16253 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 03:06:37 -0000 Received: from foxlnqtc.qtc.foxboro.com.au (HELO foxboro.com.au) (202.12.112.10) by gatekeeper.foxboro.com.au with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 03:06:37 -0000 Received: from wayneb-nt (fwserver [202.12.112.56]) by foxboro.com.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA15652; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:06:36 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990416130635.0093c380@mailhost.qtc.foxboro.com.au> X-Sender: wayneb@mailhost.qtc.foxboro.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:06:35 +1000 To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Wayne Blair Subject: ECU or ECM data files Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, I've been getting requests for .ecu file for Promedit. Has any one built up any of these files for various ECU. If you could post any info files you'd like to share to the "incoming" area I can point people at it. Or is there a collection of these some where ? There is a newer version of promedit on the ftp site. IF! I get the time I'll enhance the program so it can work with the TUNA style info file also. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< bye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayne [Brisbane Australia] From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 23:10:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30218 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:10:54 -0400 Received: from mail.networkone.net (qmailr@mail.networkone.net [209.144.112.75]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA30215 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:10:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 13353 invoked from network); 16 Apr 1999 03:11:47 -0000 Received: from pm3-6-17.la.networkone.net (HELO salmon) (209.144.125.81) by mail.networkone.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 03:11:47 -0000 From: "Mike Pilkenton" To: "DIY-EFI" Subject: seek knowledge Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:05:49 -0700 Message-ID: <01be87b6$07b5b8a0$517d90d1@salmon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well this is probably a basic question for you experts but I have to start somewhere. I understand that the various MEMCALs contain the efi tables, fuel, spark curves, etc. in the form of hex codes programmed into the EEPROM. However there must be am operating system or basic program that runs on the computer and controls the logic. For example: step 1: go get engine data step 2: pump fuel and spark step 3: repeat Although this is extremely oversimplified, my question is: does this basic program also reside in the MEMCAL or is it resident somewhere else on the ECM computer? I would also like for someone to email me a sample program perhaps converted to some common programming language so as to illustrate the typical logic involved with runnung an efi system. I'm not ready to play with fuel and spark maps but just want to gain more systems level knowledge. Mike Pilkenton From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 23:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30471 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:17:21 -0400 Received: from mail.info2000.net (root@mail.info2000.net [204.144.228.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30466 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:17:19 -0400 From: cwagner@info2000.net Received: from chetwagn (pp91.info2000.net [204.144.227.91]) by mail.info2000.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA28981 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:09:45 -0600 Message-Id: <199904160309.VAA28981@mail.info2000.net> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:18:10 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: 7747ecu X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a modified ECU file for use with promedit. It is for use with any 7747 bin's. If anybody wants to give it a try, let me know and I will email it to you since I don't know how to upload it to the ftp area. From diy_efi-owner Thu Apr 15 23:28:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA30709 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:28:39 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA30706 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:28:38 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.102]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA06115 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:28:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01a801be8239$19e16060$1d633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <199904160259.VAA03477@millenicom.millenicom.com> Subject: Re: tbi adapter Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 23:28:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Jones To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 11:07 PM Subject: tbi adapter Try 11/18/97 Bruce > I asked for an adapter for a tbi to a carb intake and Bruce Plecan > responded and others. > I would like to find the gm part number to the "heater" adapter for 87-89 > bigblock trucks, if anyone has it. > no, I could not find it in the efi archives. > I have designed a 3/4" aluminum plate that will bolt efi (350 or 454 type) > to both a holley 4150/4160 intake or a holley spread-bore(quadrojet) > manifolds. if you need a copy of this drawing (in microsoft word format) > just let me know. I am having it quoted for machining by a couple of local > machine shop (Greenville, S.C.) will post price later. > thanks, > Gene Jones From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 01:16:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA32707 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:16:34 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.14]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA32704 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 01:16:33 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id AAA16338 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:15:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from dal-tx2-27.ix.netcom.com(207.94.120.155) by dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma016325; Fri Apr 16 00:15:53 1999 Message-ID: <001f01be87c8$181e4b00$9b785ecf@gponton> From: "G. Scott Ponton" To: Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:15:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Well I guess I will have to put my foot in my mouth on this one :-) I have been shifting a 4 speed without "lifting" for over 25 years. It's a little hard on the syncros in some boxes but isn't that hard to accomplish. It's just a matter of timing the shift with clutch and shifter. When the timing is perfect it's unusual for the RPMs to climb more than a couple of hundred between shifts. It's true that there is a need to unload the shift "dogs" in a normal trans. Although it's not become they are back cut. It has more to do with the surface area of the dogs. If you grind every other dog off of the gear you don't have to use the clutch at all. This was fairly commom practice in the 60's. They used to call them "crash boxes" Worked well until the tires and power levels got a lot better. Then strength became a factor. For awhile Perfection-Hi Test made special replacement shift syncro hubs and gears, which had larger dogs much like a motorcycle trans, for the muncie trans. Do to the liminted surface area they were prone to junmping out of gear on de-.accell as the detents weren't stiff enough. If you look closely at a motorcycle trans the dogs square without a back angle. These transmissions are held in the selected gears but fairly stout detents and notches in the sequential "barrel". Also due to being designed for sequential operation the surface area of the dogs is nearly equal to that of a stock automotive transmission. There also used to be a company which made sequential shifters for automotive 4 speeds. I haven't seen one advertised in over 20 years though. It worked much like a "V-gate" other than you didn't need to lift the handle to shift down from 3rd to 2cd. you just rowed the shifter handle back and forth to upshift and after you were in 4th the next time you moved the shifter you would go the other way. It never caught on, probably because you had to shift through all the gears every time you wanted to "find" a particular one. As the only thing you need to do is release the pressure on the gear set to dis-engage the current gear it should be possible to cut one or two ignition pulses in a NA app. Designing a shifter shouldn't be to hard to do. You could use air, hydraulic, or even electric. With the proper cam and ratchet design it would even be possible to upshift and downshift without having to go all the way to 4th before you could start downshift or all the way to 1st before upshifting. Just my $.02 Scott From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 07:46:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA03022 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:46:16 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA03019 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:46:15 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:48:57 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.11] by grolen.com id 3d9c0.wrk; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:44:56 EDT Message-ID: <371720E5.87F0F93E@grolen.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:37:09 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Test needed. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If anyone has a bench run distributor and a 2 channel O'scope, and would be willing to run a simple test, please send E-mail off list. I need to see if my memory is any good. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 08:44:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03573 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:44:58 -0400 Received: from bserv.com (bserv.com [204.101.197.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA03570 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:44:57 -0400 Received: from pm1p10.bserv.com (pm1p10.bserv.com [204.101.197.50]) by bserv.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA22149 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:33:42 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.16.19990416084407.0e27e92c@bserv.com> X-Sender: tigers@bserv.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (16) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:44:07 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Bob Tom Subject: Twin Turbos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I noticed in a reply about whippled hummers that Frederic Breitwieser has a 413 with twin turbos. I am interested in the possibility of running twin turbos with the current Magnum 5.2L engine. I would be interested in hearing about your experiences, any recommendations, and any companies/resources that you may know that can help me with this modification. If this subject is off-topic for the list, please e-mail me privately. Thanks. Bob Burlington, Ontario Current: 97 CC Sport,5.2L,3.55SG auto.,4x2,Gibson dual,KN 96 Grand Caravan ES,3.8L 85 Shelby Intercooled Turbo Charger,2.2L,5-spd man. 78 customized B100 with '69 340-4bbl,3-spd auto. 70 Challenger,383-4bbl,slap-stik auto.,3.23SG,hemi orange From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 09:05:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04090 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:05:14 -0400 Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04087 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:05:13 -0400 Received: from mihmp ([209.214.60.75]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA4AF7 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:06:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01be8809$b8671880$4b3cd6d1@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> From: "David A. Cooley" To: Subject: Re: 7747ecu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:04:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'd like to play... -----Original Message----- From: cwagner@info2000.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 11:20 PM Subject: 7747ecu I have a modified ECU file for use with promedit. It is for use with any 7747 bin's. If anybody wants to give it a try, let me know and I will email it to you since I don't know how to upload it to the ftp area. From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 09:33:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04520 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:28 -0400 Received: from bluegill.adi.com (bluegill.adi.com [206.7.181.131]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04517 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:25 -0400 Received: from pickerel.adi.com (pickerel.adi.com [206.7.181.140]) by adi.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/ADI-8.4-DNI-2) with ESMTP id JAA15795 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pickerel (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pickerel.adi.com (8.9.2/8.9.2/ADI-8.4) with SMTP id JAA24406 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37173C17.4BFA@adi.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:11 -0400 From: David Rhoads Organization: Applied Dynamics International X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4c) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #227 References: <199904160900.FAA01983@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Costs, even ballpark, on some packages could be a useful piece of additional information. The following message was sent to me offlist; Subject: tion and Modeling Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:45:36 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" To: There is lots of modeling in industry. Not too many years ago, it cost over $50,000 per seat of 3D CAD for software and hardware. Now it can be done for $8,000. The new systems run on Windows NT and Intel Pentium II and Pentium III. This makes it available to a whole new class of company. It is truly a revolution. Common low cost software is Solid Edge and Solid Works. Pro Engineer has dropped prices and is trying to compete in that arena. The really big buck systems, like Catia are useful to large global corporations are still expensive. Gary Derian > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:10:21 -0400 > From: H Villemure > Subject: Re: Simulation/Modeling Tools > > How much $$$? > Do you own a copy yourself? > > FHPREMACH@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 4/14/99 8:47:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > memvive@globetrotter.qc.ca writes: > > > > << David Rhoads wrote: > > > > > > Help ... > > > > > > I'm looking for some additional information to wrap up a term paper that > > > I'm writing. What I need is info/comments on various > > > modeling/simluation languages/tools > > > > The Pro/Eng (Pro/Engineer) package is indeed the most complete one I > > have seen with mechanical, heat transfer and motion simulations. > > > > Hope this helps, > > -- > > Helene V. >> > > > > I beg to differ. ProE is a cumbersome package. If you want to use what the > > big boys use, look to SDRC IDEAS and Fluent Rampant for design and > > Computational Fluid Dynamics respectively. This is what people like Ford, > > Ilmor and others of that caliber use. The company (an international > > aerodynamics research and consulting firm) where I was in charge of design of > > gaging and database development spent a great deal of time evaluating > > packages. We talked to a number of companies who had IDEAS and ProE > > experience and they were fairly unanimous in their recommendation for design > > and analysis. Fluent is the world leader in CFD for virtually every kind of > > fluids flow analysis as well as thermal and combustion analysis. IDEAS was > > recommended by them as a tool for preprocessing the data for their analysis > > suite. > > Talk to these people. You will find that they are both companies with strong > > educational ties. > > Fred > > - -- > Helene V. > ___________________ > welcome to mk2@onelist.com > visit us at http://come.to/helene-and-matti > > ------------------------------ -- . David Rhoads II . Applied Dynamics International . 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 . (734) 973-1300 . rhoads@adi.com website: www.adi.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 09:39:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04638 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:39:41 -0400 Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04635 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:39:40 -0400 Received: from mihmp ([209.214.60.11]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA73D6 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:40:36 -0400 Message-ID: <004501be880e$883ef6a0$0b3cd6d1@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> From: "David A. Cooley" To: Subject: Re: seek knowledge Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:39:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mike, Some PCM's (P6 and P4) have the operating program in the MEM-CAL... Others (C3) have the software in embedded ROM either on the CPU chip itself, or ROM chips built into the computer. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Pilkenton To: DIY-EFI Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 11:13 PM Subject: seek knowledge >Well this is probably a basic question for you experts but I have to start >somewhere. I understand that the various MEMCALs contain the efi tables, >fuel, spark curves, etc. in the form of hex codes programmed into the >EEPROM. However there must be am operating system or basic program that >runs on the computer and controls the logic. For example: > >step 1: go get engine data >step 2: pump fuel and spark >step 3: repeat > >Although this is extremely oversimplified, my question is: does this basic >program also reside in the MEMCAL or is it resident somewhere else on the >ECM computer? I would also like for someone to email me a sample program >perhaps converted to some common programming language so as to illustrate >the typical logic involved with runnung an efi system. I'm not ready to >play with fuel and spark maps but just want to gain more systems level >knowledge. > >Mike Pilkenton > > From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 10:19:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05280 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:19:05 -0400 Received: from trojan.highend.com (root@trojan.highend.com [207.19.240.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05277 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:19:03 -0400 Received: from hermes.highend.com (hermes.highend.com [207.19.240.82]) by trojan.highend.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA16226 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:30:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gloria_w.highend.com by hermes.highend.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 86256755.004DC291; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:09:20 -0500 Message-ID: <3717461E.24B3@texas.net> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:15:58 -0500 From: Stephen Cranford X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: tbi adapter References: <199904160259.VAA03477@millenicom.millenicom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I would be intersted in a copy of this. I have access to a machine shop(a friend of mine) so I could really use this. -- Stephen Cranford cranford@texas.net 92 RS Sapphire Blue w/Purple Pearl & White Stripes 86 IROC-Z28 Red w/black hood and NO interior..new toy! 89 GMC 4WD 1/2 ton Suburban http://austin.f-body.org/ http://cranford.home.texas.net Eugene Jones wrote: > > I asked for an adapter for a tbi to a carb intake and Bruce Plecan > responded and others. > > I would like to find the gm part number to the "heater" adapter for 87-89 > bigblock trucks, if anyone has it. > no, I could not find it in the efi archives. > > I have designed a 3/4" aluminum plate that will bolt efi (350 or 454 type) > to both a holley 4150/4160 intake or a holley spread-bore(quadrojet) > manifolds. if you need a copy of this drawing (in microsoft word format) > just let me know. I am having it quoted for machining by a couple of local > machine shop (Greenville, S.C.) will post price later. > > thanks, > Gene Jones From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 10:40:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05720 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:40:46 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05716; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:40:44 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-5.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.74]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id KAA12783; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:40:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b601be8297$049ca580$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: , Subject: To The ECM GUY Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:41:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks Bruce From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 11:21:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06551 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:21:29 -0400 Received: from millenicom.millenicom.com (root@millenicom.millenicom.com [209.150.128.197]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06548 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:21:28 -0400 Received: from genejone (gvl-pm3a-226.innova.net [206.139.129.226]) by millenicom.millenicom.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12276 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:18:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199904161518.KAA12276@millenicom.millenicom.com> From: "Eugene Jones" To: Subject: Re: Test needed. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:25:45 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What test do you need run? ---------- > From: Shannen Durphey > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Test needed. > Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 7:37 AM > > If anyone has a bench run distributor and a 2 channel O'scope, and > would be willing to run a simple test, please send E-mail off list. I > need to see if my memory is any good. > Shannen From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 11:36:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06970 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:36:14 -0400 Received: from prod1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-93.s30.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.93]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06957 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:36:07 -0400 Received: from xephic.dynip.com (p01-28.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com [204.213.186.28]) by prod1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id JALABYHC; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:35:40 -0400 Message-ID: <26350D8C.3317EC0F@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 1990 22:38:05 -0400 From: Frederic X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Twin Turbos References: <3.0.5.16.19990416084407.0e27e92c@bserv.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I noticed in a reply about whippled hummers that Frederic Breitwieser > has a 413 with twin turbos. I am interested in the possibility of > running twin turbos with the current Magnum 5.2L engine. Actually, its a 383B mopar block that's been stroked to 431 cid, via a turned down 440 crank and 440 YJ rods, and custom wiseco pistons for a 9.2:1 c/r. the engine will go in the truck this weekend if the rain lets up. Anyway, I used moly rings for minimal wear under the additional pressure (10lbs max - its a tow vehicle not a race vehicle). This is one of the key things to remember to do. Also, the intake manifold is fairly intersting. Following an article in one of the Mopar ragazines I milled eight holes in the intake runners of an aluminum Edelbrock "Streetmaster 383" intake, made injector bungs on a friend's lathe, then TIG welded them into the holes. Using a die grinder, I ground out the "hang down" thats in the intake runner, so the only thing exposed inside the runner would be about 1/16" of the injector tip. Took a bit of experimenting to get it right. Then, I sealed off the runners that clamp to the heads, sealed off each injector bung, and pressurized the carb seat surface to find leaks. Lots of leaks Cleaned that all up, then too the modified intake to a machine shop where they could "deck" the tops of the injector bungs to be the same height. They still haven't done this as of yet, and keep blowing me off, but that's another story. They will also make the fuel rails since I made two sets that were absolutely terrible. Anyway, with this intake configuration, I can slap a carb on the intake until I figure out all the EFI stuff. I waffled between EEC-IV Ford stuff (have a low-performance ECM and harness from a 88 Crown Vic) as well as the 93 GM TPI setup found on Camaros and Firebirds. Turned out my GM ECM is bad, so I'm seeking a 730 ECM and Andy Quaas and I will be sharing notes since we are working on engines with about the same displacement. The choice to go GM was more due to the GM steering column I have sitting here with cruise, tilt, etc, as well as a caddy body harness, with all motors, switches, digital dash, and all that happy stuff to embed into the truck. See, a junkyard caddy harness was $150, whereas a "replica" harness for the 75 Dodge truck will be 3 times that, and have power nothing. Unused connectors can always hang. Anyway, with the above information, you can see where I'm going. Now, onto the turbos. I have two smaller turbos because my top RPMs on this engine would be in the 4000 range (I originally was going for 5000 RPM, but no point in a tow vehicle), therefore I don't need vast, oversized turbos since the "top end" is very low. I have two turbos from Dodge Daytonas, and will try them and see if they provide enough air for my 10lb goal. If not, I can "step up" as necessary. I prefer OEM parts for easy, convienent replacement and junkyard availability. Anyway, the iron intake manifolds that came with the 383 have had the exhaust bolt holes for the Y-pipe welded close (brazed actually), then redrilled and threaded so the daytona turbos will "bolt right on". Cracked two left manifolds trying to tap the new holes. Anyway, turbos are mounted. The remainder of the exhaust system post-turbo hasn't been fabricated as of yet, and that will be the last thing to do. Quite honestly, since emmisions testing are no longer required for my 75 truck in Connecticut, I might just run straight pipes down the frame and have them stick out post wheel, without mufflers. 4000 RPM is not going to be *that* loud, with two turbos absorbing a fair amount of noise. Time will tell. Connecting the turbo fresh-air outlets to the intake required a little creativity. I have an edelbrock carb opening on the top of the streetmaster intake, thus a plenum had to be constructed out of sheet aluminum. The turbos are at the back of the engine, therefore two Ford throttle bodies have been bolted to the back side of the intake, immediately next to each other, one for each turbo. They have been "ganged" and the throttle cable will connect in between the two throttle bodies. More than likely, I will replace them with GM units so the GM ECM gets the throttle position sensor it wants. Have two FWD 3.8L Throttles that will fit with minimal drilling into the plenum I've made. On the back side of the plenum, there is aan ATR adjustable sneeze valve, which will be set for 10psi so that additional pressure over that setting will blast out into the open area. I think its ATR. It was a leftover from my twin-turbo Buick V6 project. Anyway, inside the plenum is a 2" thick transmission or oil cooler, that I sized the inside dimensions of my plenum around, as once welded, I wanted an air-tight fit. All pressurized air from the turbos will blast into the upper plenum, go through the intercooler, then into the lower plenum, then through the carb bore, then into the runners following the OEM path of a carb-based intake. The injectors I selected are 56lb units, however the more I play with the math, I am thinking they are gross overkill. Something in the 42-48lb range would probably be more suitable. What the intercooler will be attached to hasn't been decided yet. I did some preliminary experiments on a Buick V6 engine using radiator coolant as the "intercooling fluid", and while I didn't document this even remotely well, I will state that this actually works. Kudo's to Bruce "Grumpy" Plecan who drilled the idea into my head. The idea is to tap the radiator fluid pre-engine post-radiator since the coolant is about 100-110 degrees at this point, and the fresh air post-turbo is closer to 200 degrees. While not the absolute best design, Bruce was right in saying that the intercooler temperature would be more consistant, therefore providing consistant performance, and is MUCH easier to plumb than a Peterson coolant tank, a box of ice, a 12V marine sump pump, or any other creative solution you come up with. > 85 Shelby Intercooled Turbo Charger,2.2L,5-spd man. One of the things you *should* do, and I've done this many, many times, is to sit and stare at turbocharged cars. You can learn a lot about the mechanicals (mounting, brackets, etc) from the OEMs, so sit in front of your car that I snipped out your tagline, and see what they've done. Wander the junkyards for other turbo'd cars, and see what different companies do. Also, here are two weblinks of others who have achieved what you desire. Dodge, Chevy, Ford, the concepts are pretty much the same. http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~askulte/ttt/logbook.html http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/8668/tthowto.htm Corky Bell has a book called "Maximum Boost", and if you can get through his interesting sarcasm , you'll find it a great resource. There are some minor inaccuracies in there, and a lot of this is all subjective, none-the-less its a good resource. I'd also recommend you go with a fuel injection system, either OEM parts or something like Haltach or Electromotive or DFI etc. The reason being (and this is just my opinion) that lean conditions under boost will kill your engine faster than running it without oil, therefore the more precise control that EFI can give you, if configured correctly, will help your engine's survivability. And without boost, you can get acceptable mileage too. If you are looking for low-end boost, another option is to skip the turbochargers, and go with a Paxton or Vortech supercharger. They are much easier to install (an afternoon), and give the 5.2 engine a lot of kick for the effort you will put into it. Of course, they are in the 2600-3200 US dollar range, complete, from Summit Racing for example. Many ways to skin this cat ya know :) One last comment I will make before I bore everyone to tears... is that you are right on the border of the single/twin turbo line. Corky Bell's rule of thumb is 350 cid. Anything 350cid and larger, requires two turbos, whereas below that line, requires one turbo. Nothing wrong with two undersized turbos on a 318, or one larger turbo. In general, smaller turbos will spool up faster due to the lighter rotational weight of the blower pieces that spin to 80,000 RPM, and the orifaces entering the turbo of course would be a smaller diameter, therefore higher velocity of exhaust flow going in. Well, you get the idea. On my Buick V6 block, which is a mere 252 cid (plus .030 overbore), one turbo seemed just dandy. However, converting to two turbos, we saw improved performance by using two Daytona turbos (same ones I will be testing on the truck motor actually), and it worked fine. Then, as we built the motor up enough to withstand the the punishment, we used two TE43's (I think), which are very large turbos. However, at lower RPMs turbos of this size were completely useless, and it wasn't until the 6500 RPM range that things started to really hum. Unfortunately, the V6, with all the girdles, valve train support, and other fabricated "strengthening" things we added... the crank still kicked out at 8000 RPM after only 30 minutes. But 849 HP at 38lbs of boost was a lot of fun, using the same intake/intercooler design that I described above, and will be installing into the truck. Hope that helped somehow :) From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 11:38:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07047 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:38:28 -0400 Received: from mail4.cadvision.com (mail4.cadvision.com [207.228.64.49]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07044 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:38:24 -0400 Received: from tigress.cdcgy.com (tigress.cdcgy.com [209.167.52.146]) by mail4.cadvision.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1/CW) with SMTP id JAA04945 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:38:13 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990416093648.0096bb90@cadvision.com> Received: from a17374.csd.canada.cdev.com by tigress.cdcgy.com via smtpd (for mail4.cadvision.com [207.228.64.49]) with SMTP; 16 Apr 1999 15:38:13 UT X-Sender: huntera@cadvision.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:36:48 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Andrew Subject: Phone No#s In-Reply-To: <37173C17.4BFA@adi.com> References: <199904160900.FAA01983@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have the number for either Omega Engineering or Brooks MicroOval that offer flowmeters. I am building a fuel injector flowbench and want to use this item. Thanks, Andrew Calgary, Alberta, Canada From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 11:42:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07228 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:42:04 -0400 Received: from srv02.spar-tek (spartek.rain.com [206.163.43.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07222 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:42:02 -0400 Received: by SRV02 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:35:09 -0700 Message-ID: <41CDB9BD7551D1118F9400A0C95A1E0A1036BC@SRV02> From: Eric Aos To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:35:07 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Well I guess I will have to put my foot in my mouth on > this one :-) I > have been shifting a 4 speed without "lifting" for over 25 > years. Amen to that one. My first car was a '69 GTO with a 455 and a crashbox Muncie. Used to go through 2 sets of synchros a year :) From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 11:55:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA07636 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:55:22 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA07633 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:55:21 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-5.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.74]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id LAA17901 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016501be82a1$7026f760$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <371720E5.87F0F93E@grolen.com> Subject: Re: Test needed. Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:55:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Shannen Durphey To: Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 7:37 AM Subject: Test needed. I just wish I could be around to see how ya wire yourself up to make memory tests, with a two channel scope. Even if your doing simple tests. Grumpy > If anyone has a bench run distributor and a 2 channel O'scope, and > would be willing to run a simple test, please send E-mail off list. I > need to see if my memory is any good. > Shannen > From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 12:00:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08021 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:00:45 -0400 Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08016 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:00:44 -0400 From: A70Duster@aol.com Received: from A70Duster@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.11) id jNGPa16067 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:00:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7cd2c132.2448b87f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:59:59 EDT Subject: Re: Phone No#s, Omega To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The number for Omega is 800-TC-OMEGA. There web site is www.omega.com Hope this help! See ya, From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 12:41:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09248 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:41:16 -0400 Received: from minos.mis.amat.com ([207.82.111.150]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA09244 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:41:13 -0400 From: Jason_Leone@amat.com Received: from GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com (gwsmtpscla02.mis.amat.com [152.135.239.117]) by minos.mis.amat.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA17076 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:41:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.3 (778.2 1-4-1999)) id 88256755.005B2DA5 ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:35:54 -0700 X-Lotus-FromDomain: AMAT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-ID: <88256755.005B1CE2.00@GWSMTPSCLA02.mis.amat.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:33:03 -0700 Subject: [OT] Parametric Modeling/turbo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu With this talk of parametric solid modeling, I feel I'm qualified to jump in (I have over 5000+ hours on ProE). First off, ProE is a really powerful program. One of the most powerful ones on the planet. There are limitless "modules" that can be used (cable, piping, molds, CNC machine, jig & fixtures, etc.) with ProE. That being said, it's a difficult program for the average person to lean. The learning curve is steep. The hardware demands are high (I recommend 350Mhz, 128Mb RAM as the bare minimum!). A few years back, the PC hardware wasn't able to even run the software...we had to use SGI workstations and run it on UNIX. Now, anybody with WinNT, 450Mhz+, and 256Mb+ RAM won't have any problems (as long as the assemblies are under 200 parts!). Cost? BUHAHAHA! Well, it used to run about $20k for the basic vanilla version ProE...and another $30k for the tutorial (Coach Pro) software. SGI workstation was $10k. Yikes! Now days...Parametric Technology (company that makes ProE) has become very aggressive in their marketing. They offer a light version of ProE called PT Modeler (about $3500-$6500), that runs on Win95/98 or NT. This was in response to the upstart program called SolidWorks. SolidWorks is so much easier to learn than ProE, as it uses a lot of basic Windows commands that most people are already familiar with. Cost? About $3500. Power? Pretty good...it can do about 80% of what the basic ProE can do...but it does have a few short comings in the "sketch tools" commands. It does offer a lot of powerful things for the price! I recommend using NT as the operating system, and 256Mb RAM...with a 300Mhz+ CPU. SDRC IDEAS is really nice. KATIA is another one. HP Solid Designer is one. Most industries have a certain program they use, that's really tailroed to thier design process and their product. So how does this stuff help the hot rod people? Well, I use SolidWorks to design a lot of parts for my car. I use it to do a layout of components, to check for fit (or interference). For instance, I use it to design turbo piping. Once a basic model of the engine, and engine bay is in place...I'm free to route my 3D virtual pipes in tight places. That helps me drastically reduce the material cost when ordering material for R & D. I know how much material (and what bends) to get from Burns Stainless, before I even touch a pipe or a cut-off wheel. I use it to design brackets, molded plastic parts (custom A-pillar pod?), or to figure out how much these parts will weigh (plug in the material density, and it tells you). Pretty neat, eh? Of course, I use AutoCad to actually do the detailed 2D drawings that go to the machinist (all parametric modeling programs have a lack luster "drawing mode"). You can design anything you want, if you can imagine it...and are good enough to know how to use the tool (the modeling program). In closing, I'd like to say that all drafting/modeling programs are merely tools. That's all. You MUST have the knowledge to design something first and foremost. You must have a good materials and manufacturing process knowledge before creating and testing new parts in a software program. You must know how those parts are going to be made, and what's the most cost effective approach (based on the end-user's needs, the part itself, the design intent, lead time, and a lot of other factors). You must have a really good reference database! It's impossible to remember everything, or know everything...but if you know WHERE to find the data, that doesn't matter! Just because you know how to swing a hammer, doesn't mean you know how to build a house! Every single man made object you see, or touch...had to be drawn first, by somebody. Think about that. Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 12:43:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA09310 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:43:05 -0400 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA09307 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:43:03 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id LAA00090; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:42:44 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma000088; Fri, 16 Apr 99 11:42:17 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA16233; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:42:20 -0500 Message-ID: <371767D7.758B2A8@arm.com> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:39:51 -0500 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: seek knowledge References: <01be87b6$07b5b8a0$517d90d1@salmon> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For GMs: C3 type ECMs (80's, early 90's) had some code in a prom on the board, and had some more code plus all the data in a socketed PROM. P4 ECMs have all code and data in a socketed thing that includes an EPROM plus passive components that determine limp home mode, knock sensor parameters, etc. This is in general, there is at least one P4 that uses a plain socketed EPROM without all the other components. You have to be careful with the terms calpak, mempak, memcal because they refer to specific parts on different ECMs. As far as EFI software, Al Lipper has one written for the 8051. There is another one written in C for the efi332 project, search around on diy_efi for Al Lippers and on efi332 for the other one. These are written from scratch, not OEM programs. Mike Pilkenton wrote: > > Well this is probably a basic question for you experts but I have to start > somewhere. I understand that the various MEMCALs contain the efi tables, > fuel, spark curves, etc. in the form of hex codes programmed into the > EEPROM. However there must be am operating system or basic program that > runs on the computer and controls the logic. For example: > > step 1: go get engine data > step 2: pump fuel and spark > step 3: repeat > > Although this is extremely oversimplified, my question is: does this basic > program also reside in the MEMCAL or is it resident somewhere else on the > ECM computer? I would also like for someone to email me a sample program > perhaps converted to some common programming language so as to illustrate > the typical logic involved with runnung an efi system. I'm not ready to > play with fuel and spark maps but just want to gain more systems level > knowledge. > > Mike Pilkenton -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 13:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10138 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:22:59 -0400 Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [167.160.200.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10135 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:22:57 -0400 From: thergen@svn.net Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA03682 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:22:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:22:44 -0700 (PDT) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Phone No#s In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990416093648.0096bb90@cadvision.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'd check www.omega.com for contact info. On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Andrew wrote: > > Does anyone have the number for either Omega Engineering or Brooks > MicroOval that offer flowmeters. I am building a fuel injector flowbench > and want to use this item. > > Thanks, > > Andrew > Calgary, Alberta, Canada > From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 13:48:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10972 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:48:09 -0400 Received: from mail.info2000.net (root@mail.info2000.net [204.144.228.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10967 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:48:07 -0400 From: cwagner@info2000.net Received: from chetwagn (pp77.info2000.net [204.144.227.77]) by mail.info2000.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA11950 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:40:35 -0600 Message-Id: <199904161740.LAA11950@mail.info2000.net> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:49:00 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: ECU or ECM data files In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990416130635.0093c380@mailhost.qtc.foxboro.com.au> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It just so happens that I made up a detailed ecu file for the 7747 computer for use with promedit. I would send it to incoming if I knew how, maybe some one could help. The file even goes into setting BLM's and EGR on temp to name a few. > Hi all, I've been getting requests for .ecu file for Promedit. > Has any one built up any of these files for various ECU. > If you could post any info files you'd like to share to the > "incoming" area I can point people at it. > Or is there a collection of these some where ? > There is a newer version of promedit on the ftp site. > IF! I get the time I'll enhance the program so it can work with the > TUNA style info file also. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< bye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > wayne > [Brisbane Australia] From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 13:55:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA11184 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:55:56 -0400 Received: from qnx.com (qnx.com [209.226.137.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA11181 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:55:55 -0400 Received: (from pford@localhost) by qnx.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA12607; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:56:54 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:56:54 -0400 From: Pat Ford To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes In-Reply-To: <41CDB9BD7551D1118F9400A0C95A1E0A1036BC@SRV02> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Eric Aos wrote: > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:35:07 -0700 > From: Eric Aos > To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" > Subject: Re: sequential gearboxes > > > Well I guess I will have to put my foot in my mouth on > > this one :-) I > > have been shifting a 4 speed without "lifting" for over 25 > > years. > > Amen to that one. My first car was a '69 GTO with a 455 and a crashbox > Muncie. Used to go through 2 sets of synchros a year :) I thought that a crash box has gears wiht NO syncros (like my 61 rover) 1+2 no syncros and noisy as hell 3+4 smallist syncros Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 15:17:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA12971 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:17:56 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA12968 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:17:55 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-5.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.74]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA05009 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01e501be82bd$ba6ba840$4a198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <3.0.5.16.19990416084407.0e27e92c@bserv.com> <26350D8C.3317EC0F@xephic.dynip.com> Subject: Re: Twin Turbos (Massive snippage safe to read) Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:18:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Frederic To: Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 1990 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Twin Turbos > Turned out > my GM ECM is bad, so I'm seeking a 730 ECM and Andy Quaas and I will be > sharing notes since we are working on engines with about the same > displacement. I'd recommend ya look for a 749 instead. Running a 2 bar program would be MUCH better than a 1 bar. Would allow for much better boost control. Sneeze valve for a Truck, might be disaster... (Doc+Grumpy already taking bets). > On the back side of the plenum, there is aan ATR adjustable > sneeze valve, which will be set for 10psi so that additional pressure > over that setting will blast out into the open area. I think its ATR. Usually/Often a sneeze valve is for a high rpm+high load limit (often trimming, rather than absolute control). If I understand you right your wanting a low rpm monster. It might take a ton of work to limit/modulate a sneeze valve for this. Using the Wastegate signal off of the syty 749 would be one option. But, Intake tract boost control often winds up a bang/bang affair. Meaning anything wrong, and it flucctuates greatly. Just getting it right on a 400 CID is gonna be work, and since EGT reflects work done, heavy payloads might drive ya around the bend... Might think of using a EGR as a spill valve, would be to be electric not vac operated (ie newer Digitial type) > Corky Bell's > rule of thumb is 350 cid. Anything 350cid and larger, requires two > turbos, whereas below that line, requires one turbo. One think about sweeping statements is that they are usually wrong. Bruce From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 15:26:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13208 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:26:02 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13205 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:26:00 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.5] (p11.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.11]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA06077 for mail_from ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:25:48 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:25:37 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Phone No#s Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >I'd check www.omega.com for contact info. > > >On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, Andrew wrote: > >> >> Does anyone have the number for either Omega Engineering or Brooks >> MicroOval that offer flowmeters. I am building a fuel injector flowbench >> and want to use this item. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Andrew >> Calgary, Alberta, Canada Omega, Canada= (514) 856-6928 (Laval, Que.) Greg From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 15:57:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14027 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:57:53 -0400 Received: from prod1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-93.s30.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.93]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14024 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:57:50 -0400 Received: from xephic.dynip.com (p03-09.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com [204.213.186.109]) by prod1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id JALABY29; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:57:37 -0400 Message-ID: <26354B43.D1B01CA9@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 1990 03:01:23 -0400 From: Frederic X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-Caldera [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Twin Turbos (Massive snippage safe to read) References: <3.0.5.16.19990416084407.0e27e92c@bserv.com> <26350D8C.3317EC0F@xephic.dynip.com> <01e501be82bd$ba6ba840$4a198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I'd recommend ya look for a 749 instead. Running a 2 bar program would be > MUCH better than a 1 bar. I just haven't found one in the local junkyard. Been looking big time! Now, this particular ECM drives eight injectors, or does it drive a TBI setup only? I thought the latter, however I've been wrong before. > Sneeze valve for a Truck, might be disaster... (Doc+Grumpy already taking > bets). Actually, I'm anticipating this - and all of the statements you made about pulsating in the intake plenum due to the sneeze valve opening and closing repeatedly will more than likely be true. My other option is to use a wastegate setup, however I just don't have one at the moment. Ideally, I'd like to use VATS turbos, however they are not to be found in junkyards . > wanting a low rpm monster. It might take a ton of work to limit/modulate a > sneeze valve for this. Using the Wastegate signal off of the syty 749 would Yes, exactly. I adapted my thinking to low RPM only, hence the 4k cutoff point. > Might think of using a EGR as a spill valve, would be to be electric not > vac operated (ie newer Digitial type) This is a good idea actually... I had not planned to have any emmissions or recirculation anything... vented the old way, since the hood will never be opened at the emissions station. > One think about sweeping statements is that they are usually wrong. LOL, good point :) Frederic From diy_efi-owner Fri Apr 16 16:47:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA14881 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:47:26 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14872 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:47:19 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-5.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.74]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA14166 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <023701be82ca$353c46e0$4a198fd1@nace