From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 02:22:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA20299 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 02:22:24 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA20295 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 02:22:20 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sat, 01 May 1999 02:24:46 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.11] by grolen.com id 12a20.wrk; Sat, 1 May 1999 02:21:04 EDT Message-ID: <372A9B54.FAAC8F18@grolen.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 02:12:36 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Need Fuel Injector Data References: <008e01be9293$8529a7a0$8b9dfea9@gbclark.com> <004f01be92ab$4bdead20$4e198fd1@nacelp> <372A5640.D2D9A214@grolen.com> <372A67B8.9AA47370@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There needs to be something to offset the forgotten birthdays, meetings, bill payments, appointments, etc. Thanks. Shannen Steve Ravet wrote: > > "swagaero". Why do I remember stuff like that? > > --steve > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > There was a website which mentioned using Saturn parts for aircraft > > EFI conversions. Can't quite remember the name, but I will post it > > when I do. If you can't wait, the person who owned the site was a > > member of this list at one time. His posts should be in the archives. > > Shannen > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > Couple things come to mind. > > > GM 1987 Sunbird 2.0L 4 cylinder Turbo might be close, they are P+H. > > > www.lindertech.com that's off the top of my head but they are in gasoline > > > Alley > > > Indianapolis, IN. Then RC Eng in SoCal.. > > > How much info do you have about that ecms prom calibrations?. > > > If your point man is gone, you might need to reevaluate your posistion. > > > Bruce > > > > > > > A friend of mine and I are working on an unusual project. We are adapting > > > a > > > > '93 Saturn ECM and two DIS modules to run a Continental O-200 aircraft > > > > engine. The engine is 200 C.I. (3.3 L) 4 cylinder dual plug and should > > > make > > > > about 120 HP at about 2800 RPM. > > > > > > > > Can anyone supply us with the information or give us an idea of where we > > > can > > > > find a chart with the injector data? > > -- > Steve Ravet > sravet@arm.com > Advanced Risc Machines, INC > www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 06:10:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23064 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:10:21 -0400 Received: (from jsg@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23050 for diy_efi; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:10:05 -0400 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 06:10:05 -0400 From: jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-Id: <199905011010.GAA23050@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. To post: Send to "[list name]@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ now mirrored at http://tech.buffalostate.edu/efi Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 06:13:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23151 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:13:01 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23146 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:12:57 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23166 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA01601 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372AD427.108972D8@vt.edu> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 06:15:03 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs References: <01be9442$db3b46c0$6d930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <3729D85C.2F474632@vt.edu> <19990430.231958.4054.5.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > I don't argue with the above. What I am saying is that if you run it at > max VE without throttling it, you will generate MUCH more power than you > need. If you throttle it, you will not have a good VE. Throttling works > by lowering VE. I agree. But do you have to throttle? > Agreed. There is no throttling with a properly used CVT. You reduce > power by LOWERING THE RPM of the entine to the point where it is > producing the desired power. > > The engine is constantly at WOT, and the power output is controlled by > controling the engine speed. Um I don't agree with this, with a perfect cvt the change in applied power would be due to gearing changes. > I am comparing a throttled engine at the speed of max VE with an > unthrottled engine that has been slowed down enough to reduce the power > to the desired level. Based on that, my statement is correct. Your absolutely correct. Our disagreement seems to be in the function of the cvt itself. > IF YOU RUN AN ENGINE AT MAXIMUM VE WITHOUT THROTTLING IT, YOU WILL GET MORE > POWER THAN YOU NEED, AND NOTHING YOU CAN DO WITH THE TRANSMISSION (besides > wasting the power through friction) WILL REDUCE THE POWER LEVEL. > If you are cruising at a speed that requires 25 HP to maintain, and your > engine is capable of putting out 200 HP, you have to either throttle it > or run it at a speed where it only generates 25 HP. You CAN NOT run it > at its peak VE point or its peak power point and only generate 25 HP > unless you throttle it. > There, I said the same thing in several different ways. Hopefully, the > concepts won't be misunderstood. Please read it carefully before writing > a rebuttal. I have read it carefully and try to do so with all the messages I reply to. I enjoy learning the theory involved here. Which is what I am trying to do, learn. There are few perfect students and I, unfortunately, do misunderstand concepts. If you feel it is a chore to respond to my comments, you don't have too as much as I do enjoy the conversation. When we are in first gear of a typical car today, we have a high (numerically) gear ratio which increases the effective torque at the driving wheels to get the car going, right? Why isnt the reverse true? With a perfect cvt, there is not limitation on the gearing so we can reduce the engine torque through very low (numerically) gearing, is there a reason this is not feasible with a perfect cvt? By these means we could also control the load on the engine... James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 06:15:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23223 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:15:08 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23220 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:15:01 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23192 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA20230 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372AD4A2.FD1CA317@vt.edu> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 06:17:06 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: atomization enhancement References: <4.1.19990501005646.00926e90@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu "David A. Cooley" wrote: > Most injectors will go to 80 maybe 100 PSI differential tops across them > before they will either stick fully open or stick fully closed. How does the increased pressure affect control of the pulsewidth, if at all? James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 06:20:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23338 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:20:08 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23331 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:19:51 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23253 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24631 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:19:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372AD5C0.FB77E712@vt.edu> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 06:21:53 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs References: <01be9529$8a7d0740$44930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howard Wilkinson wrote: > The reason for the stepped transmission is to increase gear range > beyond what the belt drive can provide.... you'd probably have to use > an axle ratio of 1x (not available as far as I know) to get high > enough gearing to load an engine down under virtually any conditions Could a second belt system be employed in connection with the first to offer a wider range of ratios? I guess it could be 1:1 and inactive until engaged by rpm/vacuum and then be able to increase or decrease the ratio as neccessary. James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 06:57:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA23930 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:57:54 -0400 Received: from mercury.mv.net (root@mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23927 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:57:53 -0400 Received: from dora (darkstar.mv.com [199.125.78.23]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with SMTP id GAA01973 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990501065015.0167e4c0@pop.mv.net> X-Sender: darkstar-ma@pop.mv.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 06:50:15 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: Flame - Not In-Reply-To: <3729F56F.B36B6EB1@globetrotter.qc.ca> References: <372965cd.5282913@smtp.uia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Your typical (cheap, non-ohv) 4-stroke lawnmower engine is a flat head--the head has nothing but holes for plugs, no valves. The valves are mounted in the block instead. At 02:24 PM 4/30/99 -0400, you wrote: >Robert, > >I am more of an ignoramus than most on this list- just a fresh >mechanical engineering graduate. Could you detail what a *flathead* >motor design consists of? > >Thanks! Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 07:32:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24424 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:32:50 -0400 Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24420 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:32:48 -0400 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com (7821) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id jYXPa20981 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:32:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <238814f8.245c4036@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 07:32:06 EDT Subject: Re: cam grinds for SC To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 4/29/99 7:13:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jsg@donet.com writes: << Subj: cam grinds for SC Date: 4/29/99 7:13:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time From: jsg@donet.com Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm about to install a Vortech supercharger on my SBC 305 TPI, and I'm thinking about changing cams too. The vortech FAQ has this to say about cams: 4) What is the correct cam to run with my supercharger? Cam selections are best discussed with the various cam manufacturers. Many people select cams which are not the correct choice for centrifugal superchargers. When discussing the cam with a manufacturer make sure they understand a Turbo cam or a cam for a Roots style supercharger is different than a centrifugal cam. Generally speaking the supercharger and the cam do the same thing (increase volumetric efficiency), be cautious of choosing a cam that has large amounts of lift and duration. Ideally for a street application retaining decent idle, emissions and drivability are important, for this reason we suggest a "moderate" camshaft. Given the choice between two cams we suggest the milder of the two for street applications. Of course that is of little help, and I would like some idea of what's going on before contacting manufactures. So, what does make for a good cam for applications like this? How do these cams differ from turbo or roots specific cams? john >> Hi John, Man, where do I start........this thread could be extremely long but I'll try to keep it to the point.....Turbo cams diff from supercharged cams for two major reasons.....backpressure between the exhaust valve and turbo and spool up times,and truely a bunch more incidental ones....but that's a whole different discussion...... As for the supercharged stuff here goes......There is probably a very good cam for your app available off the shelf or if not can be custom ground at a reasonable cost,,,but I will need more info from you to recommend one......As for some experience on the subject I would like to share with the group this regarding lobe separation and overlap cycles.......overlap cycles affect octane requirements and fuel efficiency...... example....540 bbc 7.5:1 compression 100 octane fuel 775 hp 5500 rpm 11 lbs boost. engine would not detonate on the dyno with 92 octane but if loaded for long periods of time(boat) would begin detonating within 7-8 minutes unless we used 100 octane....cam was 222-226 @.050 on 116LC......Customer wants to run 92 octane, when decreased timing far enough to eliminate detonation EGT's would go too high for extended use....advise of decrease in fuel mileage and install cam 246-254 @.050 on 116LC. engine makes the same 775hp at 5500 but now is only 8lbs of boost. Intake air temps within 10 degrees of each other but requires almost 20% more fuel(using Horiba airfuel meter and allowing an offset for the overlap to scew the sensor readings) Egt's are now 1375-1400 and stable on 92 octane for unlimited periods of time........The overlap cycle helps cool the surface temp of the combustion chamber and piston and exhaust valve...but results in a waste of charge out the exhaust.......same customer later wants 1000 hp, turn boost up to 11 lbs and engine makes 980hp at 5600 but jumped from 11lbs boost at 5600 to 14lbs of boost at 5800.....VE of engine fell off at 5600 and supercharger did not.....Install new cam with exact same overlap cycle but intake valve closing event 20 degrees later.....engine makes exact same power to 5600 but makes 1184 hp at 6100 rpm at same 11lbs of boost......This told me my heads were flowing as much air as the supercharger could push(pressure had equalized in the cylinder in comparison to the manifold) until there wasn't enough time(RPM vs valve event) to continue to fill.....again required 100 octane fuel to make the higher horsepower but was very stable and hey how long does it take to change pulleys to run 92octane????? As far as cams go in reference to centrifugal vs. roots....with a roots type the only thing holding the air back is the throttle blade,,,but with a centrifugal it is also rpm dependant and the wrong camshaft will produce less torque at low speeds than you probably had stock.......and in reference to the cylinder head stuff, if I had poorer heads on this app I would have gained hp by adding intake closing event time....another way to help a poor environment such as a stock engine......I have ended up with as high as 121LC cams on some supercharged street engines just to fill the cylinder more without giving up the effiency.....but you might think about an EGT guage if your gonna tow.........I know I have just touched the surface of this conversation but will attempt to answer any questions I can.....I don't know everything there is to know about every app regarding supercharger cams but am more than willing to help with the experiences I have had. John, I would like to know any mods done to your engine,,,,static compression ratio,,,,rpm band and how much hp you're trying to achieve.....is it going to be a flat tappet hydraulic or hydraulic roller????? Anyway, I hope that helps and I'll try to respond as quickly as possible,,,,,just doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day....it's 4:30 am here and gotta be up soon to tune some stuff at the track....ttyl -Carl Summers From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 07:38:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA24518 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:38:46 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA24515 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:38:45 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA23358 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA24444 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 06:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372AD79E.39823122@vt.edu> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 06:29:50 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs References: <01be952c$96ffd1c0$44930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howard Wilkinson wrote: > James: > BMEP is an acronym for Brake Mean Effective Pressure...... It may > be considered to mean the pressure developed in the cylinder by the > combusion process. At low throttle settings BMEP is low, at WOT in > the max torque range BMEP is max....... Actual BMEP values vary > between engines as a result of compression ratio, boosting, camming, > etc. The max torque developed by an engine per cubic inch > displacement is a direct relation to max BMEP. Thus at high RPM BMEP > values are lower than at low RPM due to lower induction efficiency, > although the power output BHP is greater. In general engines live > longer operating at lower BMEP..... H.W. Thanks for the explanation Howard. It would make sense since most of the timing is in by the time todays engines reach peak torque so that at this point an engine would be doing the most negative torque btdc. A lot more bearing wear would probably result. It seems if we were building engines for performance at that one point, we could minimize it though. Also high rpm failures and varying loads due to changing engine speed would no longer be a factor. James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 09:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25457 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:07:33 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25452 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:07:32 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA18958 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:07:29 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 07:07:55 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Transplant Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Nah - some insane whacko is building a unique engine from various scrap parts >and ancient hot rod ideas. When it get's finished, it will be vaguely fordish >and definitely unusual and maybe not too expensive. Nice flame, Bob!! Greg > > >Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:24:55 -0400 >From: H Villemure >Subject: Re: Flame - Not > >Robert, > >deleted stuff > >And about your Mach 1- what transplant? The Cobra 427? Talk about torque >monster... > > >1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" >1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" >1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant >1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" > >Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 09:07:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25460 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:07:35 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25456 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:07:33 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA18961 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:07:31 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 07:07:57 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Flame - Not Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Flatheads....... Well don't let's forget Briggs & Stratton, Tecumsa, >Kohler........ H.W. > Or Indians! (The engines, not the tribe!) Greg From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 09:10:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25578 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:10:40 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25575 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:10:38 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA19007 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:10:36 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 07:11:02 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Aaron: > Unfortunately I have yet to see a water injection system that I >like..... Stay tuned. also up here there are not enough months when water >injection is practical. Stay tuned. (Do not adjust your set!) Greg H.W. From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 09:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA25803 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:28:56 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA25800 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:28:55 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA19164 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 07:28:52 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 07:29:17 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >You also commented about noise in the FE engine with .035 lash..... it >wasn't any louder than most solid lifter engines, and was in a 2 ton >cab over truck so lifter noise wasn't noticed...... supprisingly some >of the Ford factory specs for lifter adjustment on some of the stock >FE engines with solid lifters which were high performance engines in >the early & mid 60's were at or very close to this gap. You will find >this on some of the 390, 406, and 427 engines I believe..... Three >duces, solid lifter cam, and 400+ hp. Those were real engines!! >H.W. > The 421 Poncho and the 413 Max Wedge III each had it all over the 390/406 FE's! Whether your expert ear heard it or not, the take up ramps on solid lifter cams vs. hydraulic lifter cams are entirely different! The initial ramp on a hydraulic cam is quite quick, so as to set the check valve in the lifter closed. The initial ramp on a solid lifter cam is much gentler, so as to take up the lash with minimal impact on various valve train parts. If you run a solid cam with hydraulic lifters, the timing and lift will be inconsistent--generally less duration and lift at higher engine speeds, which is about the opposite of what you want. If you run a hydraulic cam with solid lifters, you subject your entire valve train to a lot of unnecessary impact--Which is OK I guess, if you have no respect for your engine, an infinite supply of money, or do not rev the engine to the potential of the cam you are running. But--I am sure that you knew that, and just hadn't told us yet! BTW--please start snipping the messages you reply to--not only does it take a lot of bandwidth when you do not do this, it takes forever do do it for you when replying! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 10:10:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26409 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:10:56 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26406 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:10:54 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19483 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 08:10:51 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 08:11:16 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >"David A. Cooley" wrote: > >> Most injectors will go to 80 maybe 100 PSI differential tops across them >> before they will either stick fully open or stick fully closed. > > How does the increased pressure affect control of the pulsewidth, if >at all? > >James Ballenger Flow through an injector per unit time will vary directly with the square root of the pressure across it. "Pressure across it" means the arithmetic difference between the gauge pressure in the fuel rail and the gauge pressure in the manifold at any given condition. At very short pulse widths, the higher pressure will affect the opening and closing characteristics of the injector enough that things will not be quite this simple. Kinsler FI has done a bunch of work with running injectors at high pressures. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 10:33:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26621 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:33:02 -0400 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26618 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:33:01 -0400 From: CEIJR@aol.com Received: from CEIJR@aol.com (14407) by imo17.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id jCFTa10654 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3596eb25.245c6a76@aol.com> Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 10:32:22 EDT Subject: Re: atomization enhancement To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James: Although we haven't done extensive testing yet, we have benched some injectors at varying pressures and pulse widths. As we suspected before setting up the bench, the generally accepted formulas are not very accurate. An increase in pulse from 2 ms to 4 ms does not exactly double flow. Nor does flow vary directly with the square root of the pressure. The dynamics of opening and closing are affected differently by pressure for different injector types and sizes, and obviously flow is affected by the percentage of the pulse a particular injector takes to open and close. Math is good for ballpark estimates, and injector selection, but bench testing and then dyno testing are unfortunately necessary for final tuning. Charlie Iliff From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 10:35:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26657 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:35:41 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26654 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:35:39 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm2-108.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.108]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA17169 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 08:35:59 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:25:03 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9570$bc8a2b40$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James: There's got to be a million ways of accomplishing this...... The regular transmission with steps is more efficient than the belt drive. The idea here is that the belt drive provides the continuous stepless effect and the transmission provides ranges..... perhaps it isn't necessary, but I am assuming that at very light loads extreme high gearing will be required to load the engine enough to hold it down to the desired speed at WOT. This may not be necessary if you are willing to use a hybrid system which uses a conventional throttle when you get beyond your target operating range. That is to say if you optimise for typical highway driving so that you can gear enough to hold the engine down, probably on downgrades you'll have to resort to conventional throttling anyway. My thinking is that if you provide a high enough gear ratio to accomplish the objective of nearly always being able to throttle with the transmission, it will at times be necessary to gear down further than your belt drive transmission allows for power, just as gravity may overcome your ability to throttle with load at the other end. H.W. -----Original Message----- From: James Ballenger To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 5:22 AM Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs > > >Howard Wilkinson wrote: > >> The reason for the stepped transmission is to increase gear range >> beyond what the belt drive can provide.... you'd probably have to use >> an axle ratio of 1x (not available as far as I know) to get high >> enough gearing to load an engine down under virtually any conditions > > Could a second belt system be employed in connection with the first to >offer a wider range of ratios? I guess it could be 1:1 and inactive until >engaged by rpm/vacuum and then be able to increase or decrease the ratio >as neccessary. > >James Ballenger > > > From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 10:35:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26662 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:35:44 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA26659 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 10:35:41 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm2-108.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.108]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA17204 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 08:36:02 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Transplant Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 07:27:20 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9571$0dec8500$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim: Please explain the term "floating rod bearings"......... I've never heard it before...... The only "floating rod bearings" I've experienced are those which spin between the bearing and the rod.......... Definitely a bad deal.... forshadows doom! H.W. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 12:24 AM Subject: Re: Transplant > > >On Sat, 1 May 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > >> Nah - some insane whacko is building a unique engine from various scrap parts >> and ancient hot rod ideas. When it get's finished, it will be vaguely fordish >> and definitely unusual and maybe not too expensive. >> >Floating rod bearings too? > > > From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 11:08:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA27095 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 11:08:07 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA27092 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 11:08:05 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm2-105.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.105]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00394 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 09:08:25 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:15:11 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9577$bd1d1840$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg: Snip....... As regards your comments about cam ramp angles...... I was aware of that issue and don't regard it as relevant at the extreme lash involved...... 50K+ trouble free miles on this engine in a single axle semi tractor (391 engine) bear that out. Life expectancy of a gas engine in this application isn't much over about 80K no matter what engine you use, and it is still running strong and has been trouble free. H.W. From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:08:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27966 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:08:15 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27963 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:08:13 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAOITVM4HS0000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 11:08:11 CDT Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 11:03:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: cam grinds for SC To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616446.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> To my mind, roots type or centrifugal type superchargers would both -> benefit from small overlap cams. This is because these are the only -> engines that have greater intake pressure than exhaust pressure. Too -> much overlap just blows intake out the exhaust. Scavenging. From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA27961 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:08:11 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA27958 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:08:10 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAOITSU6W00000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 11:08:08 CDT Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 11:03:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Direct Injection To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616445.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> valve opens. On SEFI when does the fuel inject? It doesn't really matter. The intake port has plenty of turbulence. Most port injection systems are batched; for the few that are truly "sequential", the injector timing can be played with at idle for smoothness or emissions, but at quarter-power you'll be injecting through the whole intake stroke anyway; at full throttle the injector will be on most of the 720 degree cycle. From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:10:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28049 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:10:39 -0400 Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28046 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:10:37 -0400 Received: from 86.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.86) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sat, 1 May 1999 09:13:51 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Direct Injection - Stratified Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 16:10:03 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <372c216a.19083555@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Try some out of box thinking. The propaganda is that Stratified Charge is to facilitate burning an overall lean mixture thereby increasing milage. The actual working is that a normal to richish mixture is first ignited and this burning charge is then used to ignite a much more reluctant main charge. Using a fuel scavenged pre-chamber ( one where the fuel is shot thru the pre chamber into the main chamber and the ignition takes place in the pre-chamber) , think about using two fuels. The first - thru the prechamber, is an easy to ignite, relatively fast burning fuel that will generate a nice flame jet and readily ignite the main chamber. The next, a slower burning, much harder to ignite main fuel that is admitted to the cylinder in a more normal fashion. What now happens is that the Flame Jet lights off the slower burning main charge rather quickly and fast normal combustion now occurs. The pre-chamber fuel is something like say gasoline. The main chamber is say Methane ( Natural Gas ) for the economy minded. No problem - just a little complication. But suppose that the main mixture was very rich and it was something very hard to ignite - such as a blend on alcohol and nitro-methane? The prime power limiting factor for such blends is how fast and how much can you get the fuel lit off. Even with super energy twin plug systems, much of the fuel does not burn in the cylinder but finishes combustion in the exhaust pipes. The Flame Jet ( directly stolen - its still a stratified charge - just the fuel and mixture considerations have changed ) could probably be used for a significant increase in power. And nothing stops the pre chamber fuel from being something different like gasoline from the main chamber and further, nothing stops you from using mutually incompatible fuels in both chambers, since the only contact with each other will be in combustion. Contemplate gasoline with a heavy hydrazine shot for the pre-chamber and mutually incompatible Nitro-Methane in the main. Massive power effects from both - with no time for the slow incompatibility products to form. This is where learning how and why and not blanketly parroting the latest hype pays off. Its the out of box thinking that violates nothing but would never be thought of that wins races and succeeds well whenever tried. Think about it. 1963 Ford C-600 Prison Bus Conversion "Home" 1971 Lincoln Continental 460 "Christine" 1972 "Whale" Mustang awaiting transplant 1978 Dodge Long Bed Peeek Up "Bundymobile" Habaneros - not just for breakfast anymore From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:15:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28202 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:15:14 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28199 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:15:13 -0400 Received: from ms01-83.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.83] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10dcQ3-0004Ry-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:15:12 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 09:15:55 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? In-Reply-To: <238814f8.245c4036@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I know this is NC but I"ve exhausted my related Nissan/Datsun list w/ no good info. A few of us have sb chevy V8's and several have experienced heater core problems d/2 higher/greater coolant flows/pressure (I don't know specifically), they've replaced w/ brand new units and halfway thru winding out and leaving another NSX (their ride, mine wouldn't do that;^) their heater core will fail again. They only discussed ways to just bypass the heater core which is simple but I live in the often rainy pacific nw so need heat occassionally throughout the year and would prefer some sort of pressure reducer mini-manifold but I"m not familiar w/ what hardwar is out their or the simplest way to solve this. I'm not sure if it's simply a matter of too much flow or pressure or combo of both that fails them. Mine's still OK but I haven't ran it very hard yet and want to preempt a painful heater core R&R etc. thanks for any and all ideas in advance Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:22:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28382 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:22:04 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28378 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:22:03 -0400 Received: from ms01-83.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.83] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10dcWf-0005HG-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:22:02 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501091744.0380a2e0@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 09:23:07 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: torque convertor choice? In-Reply-To: <238814f8.245c4036@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu probably NC as well but I do plan on installing my holley TB 4Di system shortly so it's related to my EFI setup.. My car is in the tranny shop this week and it's a rare time it's out of the car (700R4)so thought I'd run by my present converter and see if you recc'd a different one. Refresher... 3100lb loaded car w/ 206/212 @.050 Xtreme cam, 9.5:1, performer RPM heads, and stock bottom end 327 w/ good flows, ~300flywheelhp anyhow. they dynoed my tranny today and said my convertor is a 1550rpm, my car is a daily year round driver that gets lots of city driving and some hard track days roadracing/and autocross in the summer. Tranny guy seemed to think a 21-2200 stall would be much better suited. Oh yeah, I may bump the cam up a level in the future (possible a roller) but certainly not milder. comments ideers? gains/losses to a 2000+ stall? much mpg loss??, read about the S10 '95+ convertor being a bolt in 2000stall for the 700, my torque would probably bump that to 2200? Should it stand up in my application? I heard they fragged in some Impalas but they're a lot heavier. THe S10 95+ has same internals as the vette's 700R4 convertor if that helps. thanks in advance ! Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28534 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:34:49 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28531 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:34:47 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id MAA19771 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:34:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007101be93f0$9abd8ba0$1f633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <4.1.19990501005646.00926e90@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:35:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Caterpillar has carried this to extremes and > >has some diesel engines running ungodly high pressures....I don't know > >the exact figures. On our International it's 2,800-3,200 PSI. But, this is diesel. > > I propose changing out the injectors on my vehicle with injectors > >rated for lower flow, and raising the pressure to compensate. > >Pressure would be adjusted in "open loop" mode using an exhaust > >analyzer. It has been said that most injectors are rated at pressures > >far above what they are operated at. > > I'm sure this is far from an original idea, and that some of you > >have done it..... How much difference does it make, and what about > >pump load at the higher pressures..... how much increase in pressure > >is required. > > I'd like to hear about peoples experiences and mishaps doing this > > Most injectors will go to 80 maybe 100 PSI differential tops across them > before they will either stick fully open or stick fully closed. Some of the disc type completely lock closed at as low as 90, the pintle "seem" OK to 110, or so. Again this are reported numbers, but the 90 and disc was from a reputable source. Grumpy > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net > Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== > From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:50:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA28864 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:50:05 -0400 Received: from mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (mail2.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA28861 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:50:04 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-69.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.69]) by mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA02423 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990501124706.0093fdc0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 12:49:58 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: atomization enhancement In-Reply-To: <372AD4A2.FD1CA317@vt.edu> References: <4.1.19990501005646.00926e90@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 06:17 AM 5/1/99 -0400, you wrote: > > How does the increased pressure affect control of the pulsewidth, if at >all? The pressure on the Pintle or disc (depending on type) will cause the injector to take longer to open once current is applied. It will get to a point where the magnetic force from it's coil cannot overcome the force the fuel is putting on the pintle/disc and it sticks closed, or if the design has the fuel pressure in such a way it aids the opening and closing of the injector, it will reach a point where the return spring cannot close the injector against the fuel pressure, sticking open. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:57:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29078 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:57:07 -0400 Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29075 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:57:05 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D9J2TXGW; Sat, 01 May 1999 12:56:31 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:36:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Message-ID: <19990501.135441.13870.4.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01be9529$8a7d0740$44930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <372AD5C0.FB77E712@vt.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-11,13,15-21 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 01 May 1999 06:21:53 -0400 James Ballenger writes: > > >Howard Wilkinson wrote: > >> The reason for the stepped transmission is to increase gear range >> beyond what the belt drive can provide.... you'd probably have to use >> an axle ratio of 1x (not available as far as I know) to get high >> enough gearing to load an engine down under virtually any conditions > > Could a second belt system be employed in connection with the first to >offer a wider range of ratios? I guess it could be 1:1 and inactive until >engaged by rpm/vacuum and then be able to increase or decrease the ratio >as neccessary. > >James Ballenger Gears are more efficient than belts. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:57:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29085 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:57:11 -0400 Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29079 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:57:09 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D9J2TXFN; Sat, 01 May 1999 12:56:31 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:35:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Message-ID: <19990501.135441.13870.3.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01be9442$db3b46c0$6d930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <372AD427.108972D8@vt.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-17,19-21,23-25,28-29,33-34,38-42 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Agreed. There is no throttling with a properly used CVT. You reduce >> power by LOWERING THE RPM of the entine to the point where it is >> producing the desired power. >> >> The engine is constantly at WOT, and the power output is controlled by >> controling the engine speed. > >Um I don't agree with this, with a perfect cvt the change in applied power >would be due to gearing changes. CHANGING THE GEARING CHANGES THE ENGINE SPEED! THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT! > >> I am comparing a throttled engine at the speed of max VE with an >> unthrottled engine that has been slowed down enough to reduce the power >> to the desired level. Based on that, my statement is correct. > >Your absolutely correct. Our disagreement seems to be in the function of the >cvt itself. A CVT doesn't change the power (besides the ordinary efficiency losses). If you attempt to reduce the torque to the drive wheels by changing the gear ratio, you will either slow down the engine or speed up the vehicle. An unthrottled engine running at a specific speed (max torque, for example) is going to put out a specific amount of power. If this is more power than is required to maintain the desired cruise speed, the vehicle will speed up. If you want to prevent this without throttling - that is, if you want to maintain the same cruise speed without throttling, you will need to change the gear ratio. Assuming that you don't speed up, the engine will HAVE to slow down. Ray Drouillard ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 12:57:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA29086 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:57:11 -0400 Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA29081 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:57:09 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D9J2TXBH; Sat, 01 May 1999 12:56:31 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:06:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Flame - Not Message-ID: <19990501.135441.13870.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-11,13-17,19-21,23,25,27,29,31-36,41-44 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:21:36 -0400 (EDT) William T Wilson writes: >On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, H Villemure wrote: > >> I am more of an ignoramus than most on this list- just a fresh >> mechanical engineering graduate. Could you detail what a *flathead* >> motor design consists of? > >Yeah.. the heads are flat. ;) Nothing in them but the plugs. > >During the early part of the century up through the 50's, Ford made >flathead V8s which were extremely good engines and used in a wide variety >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline >6-cylinder. I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, also. > >There are some nice advantages to the flathead, not the least of which is >simplicity. There are no timing belts, chains, or any of that muck; it's >all gear driven. It is somewhat hard to get at the cams, though. Valves >are in the block right by the manifolds, so even a valve job is easy. It >is a very simple design. However, the performance is lacking compared to >OHV or OHC type engines. > No worry about the valve colliding with the piston. I imagine that if one wanted to make one today, ceramic coating could be used to combat the disadvantage of heat loss through the odd-shaped combustion chamber. Also, the more modern notion of a "pinch zone" wouldn't be too hard to impliment, and could actually take up the whole area of the piston. Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 13:29:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA29508 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:29:16 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29505 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:29:15 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA04293 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:29:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What I do is, epoxy the 5/8" heater hose fitting on the manifold shut, and then cure it at 200dF. Then drill a 5/16" hole in it. That is enough for heat and defrost, here in Ohio. If you want really good control over the heater coolant, use a heater valve off a 87 Buick GN/Ttype, it's vacuum applied, On, type. If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. Then drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. The above is just what works for me. Bruce > I know this is NC but I"ve exhausted my related Nissan/Datsun list w/ no > good info. > A few of us have sb chevy V8's and several have experienced heater core > problems d/2 higher/greater coolant flows/pressure (I don't know > specifically), they've replaced w/ brand new units and halfway thru winding > out and leaving another NSX (their ride, mine wouldn't do that;^) their > heater core will fail again. > They only discussed ways to just bypass the heater core which is simple but > I live in the often rainy pacific nw so need heat occassionally throughout > the year and would prefer some sort of pressure reducer mini-manifold but > I"m not familiar w/ what hardwar is out their or the simplest way to solve > this. I'm not sure if it's simply a matter of too much flow or pressure or > combo of both that fails them. Mine's still OK but I haven't ran it very > hard yet and want to preempt a painful heater core R&R etc. > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 13:43:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA30007 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:43:16 -0400 Received: from box1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-88.s25.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.88]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29997; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:43:08 -0400 Received: from xephic.dynip.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by box1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id J0FRN9BS; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:43:04 -0400 Message-ID: <372B3D28.B6118ED3@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:43:04 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Organization: Xephic Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SYTY , Low Fanglers Tech , GMECM , DIYEFI Subject: 1227749 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greetings, After spending most of the morning wandering around two local junkyards, I lucked out and found two of the elusive 7749 ECMs, one passed my "power up" test, the second one didn't, and the yard I got them from said they'd exchange the bad one when they get a wrecked turbo sunbird in later today (which means middle of next week to everyone else). Also picked up a 2-bar MAP sensor using GM part numbers as a reference, for $15. It was sitting on a shelf believe it or not, so that piece is done. Coincidentally, the body harness I snagged to give my old beater truck power everything (windows, locks, cruise, digital dash) plugs right into two of the three underhood ECM harnesses with ease, and I have to verify the wiring to ensure I don't have any ground and batt leads interconnecting. At least the connectors fit... moving wires around has become quite easy after all the practice I'm getting! Sorry for the cross post... so many people have given me help and advice I wanted to make sure you all know I appreciate it !!!! Oh, and I pressure tested my homemade fuel rails this morning and they leak right through the aluminum tubing. I found that odd. I know aluminum is somewhat porous compared to other metals, but 100psi of air pressure on the end of the fuel rail, submerging it into a litter box full of water resulted in small bubbles forming on the surface of the aluminum. When the pressure is released, the bubbles appear to receed back into the aluminum. Very odd. Just thought you'd all get a kick out of it. --- Frederic Breitwieser Xephic Technology "Leadership in IT" Bridgeport, CT 06606 Web: http://www.xephic.dynip.com Voice: (203) 372-2707 Fax: (603) 372-1147 From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 13:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA30238 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:49:55 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA30235 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:49:54 -0400 Received: from ms01-166.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.166] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10ddth-0002N9-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:49:53 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501104729.039697f0@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 10:49:12 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu well here's the last of my q's that have gone unresolved off other resources.... Local super comp dragster racing team has been selling of some unused new stuff in the local penny ads. They have one custom Bruce Crower ground roller cam, 650 lift, 300 duration w/ 105 centre left brand new that's too conservative for their efforts of late for $100CD. They sold a 2nd one same specs to a 'vette owner who had it reground to 575 lift, 112 lobe centres. I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" (any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their price I should be able to get a reground roller for 30% or so below new and to my own custom specs, assuming their's room in this monster for a 214/218 at 114 or 115 or similar (or v. open to reccomendations....). I know I'd need the Bronze distr. gear for $40CD or so as well. Just checking this out. For their cost I might just pick it up and decide later as I don't think resale 'netwise would be hard to break even. thanks again Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 13:50:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA30286 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:50:45 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA30283 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:50:44 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA21689 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e801be93fb$367898a0$1f633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 13:51:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > How does the increased pressure affect control of the pulsewidth, if > >at all? > >James Ballenger > Flow through an injector per unit time will vary directly with the square > root of the pressure across it. "Pressure across it" means the arithmetic > difference between the gauge pressure in the fuel rail and the gauge > pressure in the manifold at any given condition. > At very short pulse widths, the higher pressure will affect the opening and > closing characteristics of the injector enough that things will not be > quite this simple. Speaking specifically of "on" times of less than 2 msec. most all injectors get "erratic", in their flow rates. Pintle are the least, disc being worst. This was done at just 3 bar test pressures, so I'd imagine at higher PSI they would be even worse. Some time ago Greg H rattled on about rising rate regulators, and turn down ratios, or some such stuff over my head, but after seeing the pix off Mike Pitts set up using one of Carl S's riasing rate regulators, looks like the road to go, IMHO.. I'm still really curious about seeing some details about how an injector acts with a min "off" time. This 2 msec might apply at both ends of the scale. So just running a step from, 2 msec to 100% duty cycle might be the answer. Or just hoping for the best and program thru the jump, and let the injector do as it will.. Happy > > Kinsler FI has done a bunch of work with running injectors at high pressures. > Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 14:45:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA31077 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 14:45:48 -0400 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA31073 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 14:45:46 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id NAA06419; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:45:56 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma006363; Sat, 1 May 99 13:45:38 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA12126; Sat, 1 May 1999 13:45:04 -0500 Message-ID: <372AF5C5.242113D5@arm.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:38:29 +0100 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The JTR S-10 book shows 2 Everco 5/8" heater hose fittings, one with a built-in restriction (3/8"). Part #H2894. They also list a similar GM part, #10039163, used on some 4cyl S-10s, to restrict flow. I am pretty sure there is an in-line restrictor used on some Corvettes, but I can't find in in JTR book. > > I know this is NC but I"ve exhausted my related Nissan/Datsun list w/ no > > good info. > > A few of us have sb chevy V8's and several have experienced heater core > > problems d/2 higher/greater coolant flows/pressure (I don't know > > specifically), they've replaced w/ brand new units and halfway thru > winding > > out and leaving another NSX (their ride, mine wouldn't do that;^) their > > heater core will fail again. > > They only discussed ways to just bypass the heater core which is simple > but > > I live in the often rainy pacific nw so need heat occassionally throughout > > the year and would prefer some sort of pressure reducer mini-manifold but > > I"m not familiar w/ what hardwar is out their or the simplest way to solve > > this. I'm not sure if it's simply a matter of too much flow or pressure > or > > combo of both that fails them. Mine's still OK but I haven't ran it very > > hard yet and want to preempt a painful heater core R&R etc. > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@arm.com www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 15:23:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA31488 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:23:13 -0400 Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA31484 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:23:12 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du175-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.175]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA32711 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:20:43 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501122425.00ad3170@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 12:27:28 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501104729.039697f0@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. Sandy At 10:49 AM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >well here's the last of my q's that have gone unresolved off other >resources.... > >Local super comp dragster racing team has been selling of some unused new >stuff in the local penny ads. They have one custom Bruce Crower ground >roller cam, 650 lift, 300 duration w/ 105 centre left brand new that's too >conservative for their efforts of late for $100CD. They sold a 2nd one >same specs to a 'vette owner who had it reground to 575 lift, 112 lobe centres. > >I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" >(any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their >price I should be able to get a reground roller for 30% or so below new and >to my own custom specs, assuming their's room in this monster for a 214/218 >at 114 or 115 or similar (or v. open to reccomendations....). I know I'd >need the Bronze distr. gear for $40CD or so as well. > >Just checking this out. For their cost I might just pick it up and decide >later as I don't think resale 'netwise would be hard to break even. > >thanks again > >Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > > '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR >Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the >straights > >mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 >http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml >http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a >Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 16:33:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA32275 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:33:42 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA32271 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:33:41 -0400 Received: from ms01-82.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.82] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10dgSC-0007Hl-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:33:40 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501131530.038476d0@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:21:00 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? In-Reply-To: <372AF5C5.242113D5@arm.com> References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 01:38 PM 5/1/99 +0100, you wrote: >The JTR S-10 book shows 2 Everco 5/8" heater hose fittings, one with a >built-in restriction (3/8"). Part #H2894. They also list a similar GM >part, #10039163, used on some 4cyl S-10s, to restrict flow. > >I am pretty sure there is an in-line restrictor used on some Corvettes, >but I can't find in in JTR book. Thanks for the info so far guys! I have two JTR books (TPI/TBI & ZV8's) but can't afford to buy every one for fun reading. So the above fitting is a pipe thread 'union' w/ an inline restrictor orifice? I suppose I could make one from a piece of aluminum roundstock or any other ideer I suppose. I was curious if the orifice could lead to excessive backpressure behind the restriction? (didn't take a lot of fluid mechanics) ie. should this be setup be like bypassing your heater core but instead of blocking off the heater core circuit completely leaving it open but only w/ a 3/8" supply or similar? Make a small aluminum manifold (like an adjustable fuel pressure regulator) but instead of a regulator just a 3/8's orifice to supply the heater core?? thanks again Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 16:33:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA32281 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:33:45 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA32278 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:33:44 -0400 Received: from ms01-82.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.82] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10dgSE-0007Hl-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:33:43 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501132107.0396bdd0@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:29:26 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? In-Reply-To: <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 01:29 PM 5/1/99 -0400, you wrote: > >What I do is, epoxy the 5/8" heater hose fitting on the manifold shut, and >then cure it at 200dF. Then drill a 5/16" hole in it. That is enough for >heat and defrost, here in Ohio. so you restricted your supply to your heater to 5/16's internally w/ no other visible mods...I like that:-) what kind of epoxy specifically do you use? If you want really good control over the >heater coolant, use a heater valve off a 87 Buick GN/Ttype, it's vacuum >applied, On, type. don't follow this too well, this is an inline valve in the heater supply line? vacuum applied but what triggers the application of the vaccuum? an electric switch? or do you mean at high vaccuum (low rpm's/throttle) it's open and it closes under WOT? off of manifold vaccuum? That would be slick as well. > If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole >in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. Then >drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. missed this one, better review my coolant circuit schematics in my Haynes manual, I have hole's in my thermostat , Robert Shaw hiflo unit to accomodate my stewart water pump setup. Or do you mean bleed off a line from the thermo/water neck housing of 1/8" supply for the heater and return it into the water pump? > The above is just what works for me. >Bruce Loving these ideas guys! Can't wait to get my car back from the tranny guru to start on one of them. Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 16:40:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA32454 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:40:57 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA32451 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:40:56 -0400 Received: from ms01-220.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.220] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10dgZC-0000BF-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:40:55 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501133535.00bdd760@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:38:19 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501122425.00ad3170@mail.wgn.net> References: <4.1.19990501104729.039697f0@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 12:27 PM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth >it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have >it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of >straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile >a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much >and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's >worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. > >Sandy That's one q I'd been wondering on, can they successfully retreat the 'new' outer core to a suitable hardness while maintaining a more ductile inner core. I guess I'm always trying to figure out a way to get my foot in the door and gradually create the more expensive product w/ less money;^) having a hard time phoning them as they're 'only' a 5 day 9-5 company...hmm that's what we are and I like it;^) Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 16:59:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA00342 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:59:35 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00338 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:59:34 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.31]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id QAA27131 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:59:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016701be9415$9683d9c0$1f633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <4.1.19990501132107.0396bdd0@istar.ca> Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:00:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >What I do is, epoxy the 5/8" heater hose fitting on the manifold shut, and > >then cure it at 200dF. Then drill a 5/16" hole in it. That is enough for > >heat and defrost, here in Ohio. > so you restricted your supply to your heater to 5/16's internally w/ no > other visible mods...I like that:-) what kind of epoxy specifically do you > use? JB Weld, or about anything gray . > If you want really good control over the > >heater coolant, use a heater valve off a 87 Buick GN/Ttype, it's vacuum > >applied, On, type. > don't follow this too well, this is an inline valve in the heater supply > line? vacuum applied but what triggers the application of the vaccuum? an > electric switch? or do you mean at high vaccuum (low rpm's/throttle) it's > open and it closes under WOT? off of manifold vaccuum? That would be slick > as well. Lots of cars use vacuum motors for defroster, heat etc, just T into that if that's what you have to operate the heater valve. > > If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole > >in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. Then > >drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. > missed this one, better review my coolant circuit schematics in my Haynes > manual, I have hole's in my thermostat , Robert Shaw hiflo unit to > accomodate my stewart water pump setup. Or do you mean bleed off a line > from the thermo/water neck housing of 1/8" supply for the heater and > return it into the water pump? There is a hole in the block/passenger side behind the water pump (that is about 3/8", that is a water bypass), just tap and plug it, then drill a hole in it to reduce it's size. Period. > > > The above is just what works for me. > >Bruce > > Loving these ideas guys! Can't wait to get my car back from the tranny > guru to start on one of them. > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 17:29:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA00759 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 17:29:42 -0400 Received: from sal.awwwsome.com (sal.awwwsome.com [206.155.34.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA00756 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 17:29:40 -0400 Received: from c9d2j6 ([206.155.34.247]) by sal.awwwsome.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34763U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA18211 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 14:29:26 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990501142928.007ae6d0@sal.awwwsome.com> X-Sender: darkmon@sal.awwwsome.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 14:29:28 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 07:11 AM 5/1/99 -0600, you wrote: >>Aaron: >> Unfortunately I have yet to see a water injection system that I >>like..... > >Stay tuned. > > also up here there are not enough months when water >>injection is practical. > >Stay tuned. > >(Do not adjust your set!) > >Greg > > H.W. > > > The gears in my head turn slowly due the heavy medication they have me on :-) but I have to imagine that if it's too cold for water injection, certainly you must be breathing in cold air as well, which, coupled to an effective air-to-air intercooler, should help stave off detonation. What am I not understanding here? Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 18:06:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01367 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:06:03 -0400 Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01364 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:06:01 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27606 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:06:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id PAA26235 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:05:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199905012205.PAA26235@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: MC6840 timer specs. To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 15:05:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <372856E6.2BB7@sr.hp.com> from "Mike Brown" at Apr 29, 99 05:56:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Daniel R. Henriksson wrote: > > > > Hi > > I need the specs. on the MC6840 timer IC, i've searched around on the net with no luck, there must be some datasheet pdf's out there... > > > > (Weber Marelli WD48.08 uses one of those 6840's...) > > BR > > Daniel Henriksson > Daniel, > I searched arround also for a data sheet on this part also with out > much luck. It is a pretty old part. Finally found a older Hitachi data > book and got one from there. I also ordered a set from.... can't For those in the Seattle area, Active Electronics in Bellevue have a Hitachi data book with the HD6840 and variations in it. (You can actually buy a 68x40 there at the moment - can't remember what the x was, B probably!) Orin. From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 18:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01382 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:06:44 -0400 Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [167.160.200.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01379 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:06:43 -0400 From: thergen@svn.net Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA06909 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:06:14 -0700 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 15:06:14 -0700 (PDT) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501132107.0396bdd0@istar.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I don't know if it's the same one as used on the gn, but take a look at gm part #14044414. It has four ports. Normally, without vacuum applied, is allows coolant to flow through the heater core. With vacuum applied, it bypasses the core and routes the coolant back to the engine. It's usually actuated when the a/c is in the max position. The valve does not seal perfectly, and some coolant does go to the core in closed position. However, I think you could loosen the screw that holds the lever arm onto the rotating part of the valve and just rotate the valve piece 90 degress such that it is "open" (coolant goes through core) under vacuum and "closed" without vacuum. I don't think there was any keying between the lever are and the valve piece that would prevent this (take a look before you buy). Connecting it to manifold vacuum may then make it do what you want. Make sure the valve is installed such that is routes coolant back to the motor when "closed" and doesn't simply cut off the coolant flow. Of course, the restrictors would be cheaper. Tom On Sat, 1 May 1999, Ross Corrigan wrote: > At 01:29 PM 5/1/99 -0400, you wrote: > If you want really good control over the > >heater coolant, use a heater valve off a 87 Buick GN/Ttype, it's vacuum > >applied, On, type. > > don't follow this too well, this is an inline valve in the heater supply > line? vacuum applied but what triggers the application of the vaccuum? an > electric switch? or do you mean at high vaccuum (low rpm's/throttle) it's > open and it closes under WOT? off of manifold vaccuum? That would be slick > as well. > From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 18:40:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA01856 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:40:56 -0400 Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01851 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:40:54 -0400 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti34a25-0047.dialup.online.no [130.67.65.47]) by online.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA00811 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:40:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905012240.AAA00811@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 00:39:10 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > If you change the ratio of the transmission enough to get the RPMs down > in the 1000 and under range, you can lower the power output drastically. > The main caveat is to design the cam profile so that the engine will run > efficiently at that speed. You don't need variable displacement or > variable compression ratio to do this. Variable valve timing will do the > trick - and the technology is already fairly commonplace. Offcourse.......you are right , I have wanted to try a 4 stroke with reed valves in the intake and run a camshaft thats good for top end...... Espen From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 19:34:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA02622 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 19:34:48 -0400 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA02619 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 19:34:47 -0400 Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id SAA11429; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:34:57 -0500 Received: from aussun1.austin.arm.com(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (4.1) id xma011424; Sat, 1 May 99 18:34:30 -0500 Received: from arm.com by aussun1.arm.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id SAA15349; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:34:18 -0500 Message-ID: <372B398F.15C14F16@arm.com> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 18:27:43 +0100 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> <4.1.19990501131530.038476d0@istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ross Corrigan wrote: > > At 01:38 PM 5/1/99 +0100, you wrote: > >The JTR S-10 book shows 2 Everco 5/8" heater hose fittings, one with a > >built-in restriction (3/8"). Part #H2894. They also list a similar GM > >part, #10039163, used on some 4cyl S-10s, to restrict flow. > > > >I am pretty sure there is an in-line restrictor used on some Corvettes, > >but I can't find in in JTR book. > > Thanks for the info so far guys! I have two JTR books (TPI/TBI & ZV8's) > but can't afford to buy every one for fun reading. So the above fitting is > a pipe thread 'union' w/ an inline restrictor orifice? The Everco parts are fittings that screw into your water pump where the heater hose attaches. It's NPT on one end, 5/8" hose barb on the other. Take out the one you have and attach this one. GM part should be similar. The corvette part, if you can find it, goes inline in the hose. Cut the hose, stick it in, put 2 hose clamps on. The S-10 book is a fun read. --steve -- Steve Ravet ARM, INC steve.ravet@arm.com www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 20:43:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03650 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 20:43:20 -0400 Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03647 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 20:43:19 -0400 Received: from 207-172-145-17.s17.as4.fdk.md.dialup.rcn.com (207-172-145-17.s17.as4.fdk.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.145.17]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA12726 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 20:43:17 -0400 (EDT) From: charlesmorris@erols.com (Charles) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: John Deere Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 00:42:56 GMT Message-ID: <372c9f00.527186@smtp.erols.com> References: <199905010622.CAA20306@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> In-Reply-To: <199905010622.CAA20306@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id UAA03648 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 1 May 1999 02:22:31 -0400, you wrote: > PUT na na na PUT na na PUT PUT PUT na na na na... >Sounds like a John Deere 2cyl tractor. Massive flywheel and long >stroke crank made for similar sounds at idle. >Shannen Actually, all my 2-cyl John Deere's go: PUT PUT na na PUT PUT na na PUT PUT na na. Fires at 0 and 180 degrees, then coasts for 540 degrees (hence the massive flywheel). -Charles JD 50 JD 420 ;) From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 20:53:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA03846 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 20:53:18 -0400 Received: from benatar.snurgle.org (fluffy@c266492-a.lakwod1.co.home.com [24.1.8.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03843 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 20:53:17 -0400 Received: from localhost (fluffy@localhost) by benatar.snurgle.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA14436 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 20:52:22 -0400 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 20:52:22 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Flame - Not In-Reply-To: <19990501.135441.13870.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 1 May 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used > >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline > >6-cylinder. > > I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, > also. Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 21:03:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04073 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:03:54 -0400 Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04070 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:03:52 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id SAA40966; Sat, 1 May 1999 18:03:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 18:03:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501104729.039697f0@istar.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 1 May 1999, Ross Corrigan wrote: > I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" > (any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their Havent dealt with them for a while, but they have been around for years and, when I did deal with them they were top notch. From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 21:32:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA04619 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:32:34 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA04614 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:32:32 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-077.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.77]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA11088 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 19:32:53 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Espen's Reed Valves Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 18:35:28 -0700 Message-ID: <01be95ce$64efeec0$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Espen: That's one I've never heard..... or even considered...... what a thought.... Has someone been doing that.....Wow the possibilities are fantastic..... With such a setup you could use a centrifugal advanced cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought it seems like a brilliant solution.... wish I'd thought of that one..... I'm going to have to think on that a bit more. It takes care of the intake at least. H.W. > >Offcourse.......you are right , I have wanted to try a 4 stroke with reed >valves >in the intake and run a camshaft thats good for top end...... >Espen > > From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 22:06:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA05178 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:06:18 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA05175 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:06:16 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA17076 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 20:06:14 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 20:06:40 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Greg: > >Snip....... > >As regards your comments about cam ramp angles...... I was aware of >that issue and don't regard it as relevant at the extreme lash >involved...... 50K+ trouble free miles on this engine in a single >axle semi tractor (391 engine) bear that out. Life expectancy of a >gas engine in this application isn't much over about 80K no matter >what engine you use, and it is still running strong and has been >trouble free. H.W. Then I guess I must be nuts to be building a gas engine for duty in a 27500 GCVW vehicle which is designed make 925 ft lbs from 1600 thru 4000 rpm, continuous duty, anywhere from sea level up to 11K MSL , on ULR fuel, and have a 10000 hour (500K mile) design life! (And have a cruising bsfc below .35 #/bhphr.!) I am sure that the dude with forty years of professional engineering and mechanical experience should listen very carefully to the guy who didn't know that flattys used floating bearings, and rather reliably, on engine design issues! Howard--I think you might have some potential! If you would quit taking up so much bandwidth on this list telling yourself how much you know, I think that you might actually have the capacity to learn something here! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 22:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA05316 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:15:49 -0400 Received: from mail.wgn.net (mail.wgn.net [207.213.0.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA05312 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:15:47 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du169-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.169]) by mail.wgn.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with SMTP id TAA31020 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 19:13:19 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990501191741.00ac73b0@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 19:20:04 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Sandy Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990501133535.00bdd760@istar.ca> References: <4.1.19990501122425.00ad3170@mail.wgn.net> <4.1.19990501104729.039697f0@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a roller that was for a pro-stock, something like .775" lift, just a bit much for my use, not much, but just on the edge for a road race card (BBC). So Had it cut back to the .700 or so (I forget). I decided to back to the nice safe Chevy ZL1 Solid lifter cam, always worked good, so why change. Sandy At 01:38 PM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:27 PM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >>You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth >>it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have >>it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of >>straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile >>a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much >>and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's >>worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. >> >>Sandy > >That's one q I'd been wondering on, can they successfully retreat the 'new' >outer core to a suitable hardness while maintaining a more ductile inner >core. I guess I'm always trying to figure out a way to get my foot in the >door and gradually create the more expensive product w/ less money;^) >having a hard time phoning them as they're 'only' a 5 day 9-5 company...hmm >that's what we are and I like it;^) > > >Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > > '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR >Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the >straights > >mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 >http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml >http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a >Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 23:06:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06086 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:06:49 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06082 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:06:48 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA29019 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:06:45 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:07:12 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Caterpillar has carried this to extremes and >> >has some diesel engines running ungodly high pressures....I don't know >> >the exact figures. > >On our International it's 2,800-3,200 PSI. But, this is diesel. > >> > I propose changing out the injectors on my vehicle with injectors >> >rated for lower flow, and raising the pressure to compensate. >> >Pressure would be adjusted in "open loop" mode using an exhaust >> >analyzer. It has been said that most injectors are rated at pressures >> >far above what they are operated at. >> > I'm sure this is far from an original idea, and that some of you >> >have done it..... How much difference does it make, and what about >> >pump load at the higher pressures..... how much increase in pressure >> >is required. >> > I'd like to hear about peoples experiences and mishaps doing this >> >> Most injectors will go to 80 maybe 100 PSI differential tops across them >> before they will either stick fully open or stick fully closed. > >Some of the disc type completely lock closed at as low as 90, the pintle >"seem" OK to 110, or so. Again this are reported numbers, but the 90 and >disc was from a reputable source. >Grumpy Some custom (efi, not diesel) injectors are running 200--300 psi delta. Formula car apps. and such. $ 600 or so apiece. Greg > >> =========================================================== >> David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net >> Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 >> Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they >didn't?! >> =========================================================== >> From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 23:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06146 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:10:19 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06142 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:10:17 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA29046 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:10:15 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:10:42 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Flame - Not Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Could you detail what a *flathead* >>> motor design consists of? >> >>Yeah.. the heads are flat. ;) Nothing in them but the plugs. >> >>During the early part of the century up through the 50's, Ford made >>flathead V8s which were extremely good engines and used in a wide >variety > While on the subject, let's not forget the "F" head--one valve in the head and one in the block! Jeep, for one did it. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 23:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06497 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:22:29 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06494 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:22:28 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12771 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04325 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372BC4E2.5482C27B@vt.edu> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:22:11 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: atomization enhancement References: <3596eb25.245c6a76@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CEIJR@aol.com wrote: > James: > Although we haven't done extensive testing yet, we have benched some > injectors at varying pressures and pulse widths. As we suspected before > setting up the bench, the generally accepted formulas are not very accurate. > An increase in pulse from 2 ms to 4 ms does not exactly double flow. Nor does > flow vary directly with the square root of the pressure. The dynamics of > opening and closing are affected differently by pressure for different > injector types and sizes, and obviously flow is affected by the percentage of > the pulse a particular injector takes to open and close. Math is good for > ballpark estimates, and injector selection, but bench testing and then dyno > testing are unfortunately necessary for final tuning. Just out of curiosity, how many points did you take the data at? What I'm getting at is, can a mathematical approximation be made for a particular type or size injector and how much might it vary from another injector type? Was the flow = Sqrt(pressure) close? James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 23:34:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06663 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:34:16 -0400 Received: from mail.networkone.net (qmailr@mail.networkone.net [209.144.112.75]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA06660 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:34:15 -0400 Received: (qmail 28025 invoked from network); 2 May 1999 03:34:26 -0000 Received: from pm3-4-19.la.networkone.net (HELO salmon) (209.144.126.211) by mail.networkone.net with SMTP; 2 May 1999 03:34:26 -0000 From: "Mike Pilkenton" To: "DIY-EFI" , "4/6 Cyl. Performance" Subject: radiators? Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 20:34:10 -0700 Message-ID: <01be944c$a4841ee0$d37e90d1@salmon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I know this is a little off topic for the efi list but I'm finishing up my 3.1L V6 engine transplant project into my Opel GT and it's time to think about cooling. Can anyone suggest a decent OEM radiator that would be sufficient for the GM 60 degree V6 and fit in a tight area say about 13 in tall by 16 in wide? Mike From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 23:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06796 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:39:07 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06793 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:39:05 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA29385 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:39:03 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 21:39:29 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >You can do some regrinding to rollers, I did, but it was almost not worth >it. The problem that I was told is that if you do too much you need to have >it re-heatreated, and then it typically gets out of wack in terms of >straightness or so he said. They can take some off and change the profile >a bit, but you need to check with a grinder that can do it to see how much >and actually what it will cost. In the long run, more problems then it's >worth, just get the grind you want and save the exercise. > >Sandy Yep--Roller cams are generally made out of 8620 steel--a gear steel, like is used for ring and pinion gears. These cams are case hardened, using copper plating to mask the parts of their surface (everything but the lobes) which do not get the high carbon case (plate the whole thing, then grind the copper off of the lobes). I think the carburized case is only .030 to .050" thick, and you really need most of it for the lobes to live. Re heat-treating such a cam is not at all simple to do properly--you would have to rough grind to new profile, re plate, grind plating off of lobes, recarburize, and then finish grind. (If you want it right.) Pretty likely to be every bit as expensive as a new one. Just get one, new, the way you want. Regards, Greg > >At 10:49 AM 5/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >>well here's the last of my q's that have gone unresolved off other >>resources.... >> >>Local super comp dragster racing team has been selling of some unused new >>stuff in the local penny ads. They have one custom Bruce Crower ground >>roller cam, 650 lift, 300 duration w/ 105 centre left brand new that's too >>conservative for their efforts of late for $100CD. They sold a 2nd one >>same specs to a 'vette owner who had it reground to 575 lift, 112 lobe >centres. >> >>I'll check out the regrind price from the local grind guru's "Shadbolt" >>(any horror stories on them? I've only heard good so far), but at their >>price I should be able to get a reground roller for 30% or so below new and >>to my own custom specs, assuming their's room in this monster for a 214/218 >>at 114 or 115 or similar (or v. open to reccomendations....). I know I'd >>need the Bronze distr. gear for $40CD or so as well. >> >>Just checking this out. For their cost I might just pick it up and decide >>later as I don't think resale 'netwise would be hard to break even. >> >>thanks again >> >>Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada >> >> '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR >>Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the >>straights >> >>mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 >>http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml >>http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a >>Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 23:40:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06853 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:40:41 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06850 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:40:40 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13432 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06250 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372BC923.86669A84@vt.edu> Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:40:19 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole > in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. Is that the weep hole or something else? Why would you want to plug it? > Then drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. > The above is just what works for me. I had very good luck with the small (1/8") hole cooling down my overheating escort, when I had it. James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sat May 1 23:43:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA06984 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:43:57 -0400 Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA06981 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:43:56 -0400 Received: from q2w3e4r5 (vts-ral1-S25.vnet.net [166.82.100.35]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA16434 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:44:53 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rudi Machilek" To: Subject: RE: 1227749 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:43:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000501be944d$ff1dfaa0$64015fc3@q2w3e4r5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <372B3D28.B6118ED3@xephic.dynip.com> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id XAA06982 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Oh, and I pressure tested my homemade fuel rails this morning and they leak right through the aluminum tubing. I found that odd. I know aluminum is somewhat porous compared to other metals, but 100psi of air pressure on the end of the fuel rail, submerging it into a litter box full of water resulted in small bubbles forming on the surface of the aluminum. When the pressure is released, the bubbles appear to receed back into the aluminum. Very odd. Just thought you'd all get a kick out of it. Seamed tubing, aluminum, or stainless even, may show bubbles when tested with nitrogen (air). If the bubbles do not flow, no real big deal. Any liquid fuel is a lot bigger molecule than nitrogen. Use seamless tubing to avoid that. For fun, take some 304 or 316 SS tubing (even seamless) and submerge it in Clorox for a week. Now leak test that. Provides a new definition for porous. Use 317 SS (not very available) and almost no effect. Materials studies are a great way to burn a bunch of hours. Rudi Machilek From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 00:29:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07872 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:29:35 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07869 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:29:33 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-069.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.69]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA26288 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:29:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Flame - Not Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:20:11 -0700 Message-ID: <01be95e5$679c52a0$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu William: You wrote: > >Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as >I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. > On this note, one of the old 4 banger Jeep engines was called an F head and had 4 overhead valves in the head, and 4 flathead type valves in the block.... an interesting design. H.W. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 00:29:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA07880 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:29:41 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA07876 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:29:39 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-069.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.69]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA26332 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:29:58 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:35:24 -0700 Message-ID: <01be95e7$87c0dc20$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg: More power to you if you can accomplish that...... I happen to live in the real world, and deal with old fashioned Ford & GM engines such as the FE series and the Small block & big block GM engines. The comment on life expectancy is based on 20+ years of working on these engines. I'd love to see a gas engine with a 500K life in a farm truck, and a bcsf below .35............. With the technology people are using around here the service life I spoke of is realistic based on real life experience, not labratory environments..... some go over 100K TBO, but not many, and it is a struggle to achieve a bcsf of .50 (impossible with a Holley carb). I've worked on a lot of engines over the years, but apparently not seen the bearing setup you describe...... I presume you are refering to Ford 239 engine when speaking of "flattys", and assume you speak of a single bearing spanning an entire rod journal (2 rods)..... I've owned vehicles with these engines, but never had to work on them. I'll believe the .35 and 500k figure when I see it in real life! -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann > >Then I guess I must be nuts to be building a gas engine for duty in a 27500 >GCVW vehicle which is designed make 925 ft lbs from 1600 thru 4000 rpm, >continuous duty, anywhere from sea level up to 11K MSL , on ULR fuel, and >have a 10000 hour (500K mile) design life! (And have a cruising bsfc below >.35 #/bhphr.!) > From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 00:36:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08010 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:36:46 -0400 Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08007 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:36:44 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D9LAVXT8; Sun, 02 May 1999 00:36:40 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 01:32:04 -0400 Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Message-ID: <19990502.013640.9254.1.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10-13 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 1 May 1999 21:07:12 -0600 bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) writes: >Some custom (efi, not diesel) injectors are running 200--300 psi delta. >Formula car apps. and such. $ 600 or so apiece. > >Greg Well... so much for the thought of getting four of them and using them to inject liquid propane. Oh well... Ray ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 00:37:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08019 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:37:03 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08016 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:37:01 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA30150 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 22:36:59 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:37:26 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Flame - Not Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >On Sat, 1 May 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >> >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used >> >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline >> >6-cylinder. >> >> I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, >> also. > >Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as >I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. There was also the not-so modern SOHC hemi Tornado. Quite the motor in its IKA (Argentinian) twelve port headed, triple DCEO Webered trim! (310 HP from 230 cid at only 5200 rpm! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 00:37:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08034 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:37:08 -0400 Received: from smtp1.vnet.net (smtp1.vnet.net [166.82.1.31]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08025 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:37:06 -0400 Received: from q2w3e4r5 (vts-ral1-S25.vnet.net [166.82.100.35]) by smtp1.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id AAA22099 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:37:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rudi Machilek" To: Subject: RE: Fuel Pump Check Valve... Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 00:36:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000601be9455$602c4e80$64015fc3@q2w3e4r5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F45E@sea-mail> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id AAA08029 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Swagelok - outlets in any major city. Can specify seal material and are rebuildable. Rudi Machilek From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 00:44:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA08167 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:44:17 -0400 Received: from sal.awwwsome.com (sal.awwwsome.com [206.155.34.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08164 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:44:09 -0400 Received: from c9d2j6 ([206.155.34.251]) by sal.awwwsome.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34763U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA23747 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 21:43:36 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990501214339.007ac710@sal.awwwsome.com> X-Sender: darkmon@sal.awwwsome.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 21:43:39 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves In-Reply-To: <01be95ce$64efeec0$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 06:35 PM 5/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >Espen: > That's one I've never heard..... or even considered...... what a >thought.... Has someone been doing that.....Wow the possibilities are >fantastic..... With such a setup you could use a centrifugal advanced >cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of >the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought >it seems like a brilliant solution.... wish I'd thought of that >one..... I'm going to have to think on that a bit more. It takes care >of the intake at least. H.W. > >> >>Offcourse.......you are right , I have wanted to try a 4 stroke with reed valves >>in the intake and run a camshaft thats good for top end...... >>Espen >> >> > > Honda did this in 1982 in their XR500 four-stroke dirt bike. It was a 500cc (saw that coming) single and the reed valve apparently was used to eliminate low-speed reversion which caused big singles to stumble or stall at very low RPM. A friend of mine owned and rode one but I don't suppose he ever removed the valve to evaluate its effectiveness. Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 01:32:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09185 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:32:49 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09181 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:32:48 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17572 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA24679 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372BE419.B33BD791@vt.edu> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 01:35:21 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs References: <01be9570$bc8a2b40$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howard Wilkinson wrote: > My thinking is that if you provide a high enough gear ratio to > accomplish the objective of nearly always being able to throttle with > the transmission, it will at times be > necessary to gear down further than your belt drive transmission > allows for power, just as gravity may overcome your ability to > throttle with load at the other end. H.W. I agree, though I would say a wide enough gear ratio rather than high enough because the range would have to be beyond the scope of todays transmissions to keep the engine constant. James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 01:37:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09339 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:37:31 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09336 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:37:30 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-16.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.85]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id BAA25827 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027b01be945d$ef2373e0$1f633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> <372BC923.86669A84@vt.edu> Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 01:37:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It reduces the amount of water bypasing the radiator, and also, helps to pressurize the coolant in the head at higher rpm, reducing localized hot spotting. All, very good things.. The hole in the thermostat is to make sure no air accumulates on the bottom side of it. If ya llook close on some hot rods the first day after running the heater full one for weeks the temp guage rises rather high the first time the thermostat opens. The colder the weather the worse quicker this happens. Bruce > > If when ya do the cam, on the passenger side of the water pump is a hole > > in the water pump/block. Tap that out and put a 1/8 pipe plug in, it. > Is that the weep hole or something else? Why would you want to plug it? > > Then drill a 1/16 or 1/8" hole in it. Also, a 1/8" hole in the thermostat. > > The above is just what works for me. > I had very good luck with the small (1/8") hole cooling down my overheating > escort, when I had it. > James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 01:44:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09536 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:44:18 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09532 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:44:17 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA17910 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA11038 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372BE6CA.76906E73@vt.edu> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 01:46:50 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs References: <01be9442$db3b46c0$6d930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <372AD427.108972D8@vt.edu> <19990501.135441.13870.3.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > CHANGING THE GEARING CHANGES THE ENGINE SPEED! THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT! Shifting gears changes the engine speed. The point is if we didnt need to shift and had a smooth transition through the whole range we could keep the engine rpm constant. When you are in first gear you rev up the engine in a static gear and then shift it to start reving in a new static gear. You could make the gearing dynamic, a cvt, and be able to keep the engine speed constant. > A CVT doesn't change the power (besides the ordinary efficiency losses). > If you attempt to reduce the torque to the drive wheels by changing the > gear ratio, you will either slow down the engine or speed up the vehicle. > > An unthrottled engine running at a specific speed (max torque, for > example) is going to put out a specific amount of power. If this is more > power than is required to maintain the desired cruise speed, the vehicle > will speed up. A cvt wouldnt change the effective torque at the crank, but would modify it at the drive wheels. What happens if you keep your rpm constant and shift from 1st to 4th? You can keep the load on the engine constant and therefore the rpm constant by changing the gear ratio. I suppose a problem occurs when there is little load on the engine, but the could be countered by an insanely low (numerically) gear keeping in mind I am discussing a perfect cvt with infinite range. > If you want to prevent this without throttling - that is, if you want to > maintain the same cruise speed without throttling, you will need to > change the gear ratio. Assuming that you don't speed up, the engine will > HAVE to slow down. You don't have to slow the engine down, you reduce the transmission ratio. James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 01:46:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09617 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:46:43 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09614 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:46:41 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA30756 for mail_from ; Sat, 1 May 1999 23:46:38 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:47:05 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Greg: > More power to you if you can accomplish that...... I happen to >live in the real world, and deal with old fashioned Ford & GM engines >such as the FE series and the Small block & big block GM engines. The >comment on life expectancy is based on 20+ years of working on these >engines. > I'd love to see a gas engine with a 500K life in a farm truck, and >a bcsf below .35............. With the technology people are using >around here the service life I spoke of is realistic based on real >life experience, not labratory environments..... some go over 100K >TBO, but not many, and it is a struggle to achieve a bcsf of .50 >(impossible with a Holley carb). I've worked on a lot of engines over >the years, but apparently not seen the bearing setup you >describe...... I presume you are refering to Ford 239 engine when >speaking of "flattys", and assume you speak of a single bearing >spanning an entire rod journal (2 rods)..... I've owned vehicles with >these engines, but never had to work on them. > I'll believe the .35 and 500k figure when I see it in real life! > The 500K figure takes a good engine to begin with, and then some high tech tricks and quality parts on top of that. The engine I have started out with has a lengthy track record of running 10K hours on the heads, and 25 K hours on the bottom end, on natural gas, at about 80% load, 2400 rpm on well head irrigation pump applications. And that--with "farmer" maintenance! So--I think, with some careful attention to details, my durability goal is attainable. As for the GM motors--going for durability is a bad joke. (With the exception of the GMC (247/270/305) I- 6, V-6's and V-12's!) The FE and 385 Fords are considerably better than the usual GM's, and a 534 is better still, although a (top oiler) FE needs a lot of hand work on the oil passages in the block in order to live a long happy life. RB Mopars do a LOT better in the durability dept. than either. Too bad Mopar never built a REALLY big block motor!! As to the bsfc--check out some dyno charts for small block f & c engines running IR manifolded Weber carbs. .375 bsfc is common on these engines with this type of an induction setup and good headers--given a competent tuner. In fact--these numbers could just lead a guy to believe that there is something to this business of wanting better fuel atomization and a fuel squirt timed to coincide with high inhale velocity in the port! So--with good efi, .35 should be within reach for light loads. The real challenge will be in seeing how much lower than that can be had!! A competently tuned Holley will get down to about .45 bsfc on a decent motor, in my experience. (Somewhat lower if not into the power valve, and maybe just a little higher at WOT if you know how to set the pvcr correctly.) Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 01:50:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09742 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:50:45 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09738 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:50:43 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 01:53:27 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id e2d0.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:49:28 EDT Message-ID: <372BE56A.88F12AF0@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 01:40:58 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> <372AF5C5.242113D5@arm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'vr brazed a washer to the end of the heater hose nipple. That seems to provide a good restriction. Shannen steve ravet wrote: > > The JTR S-10 book shows 2 Everco 5/8" heater hose fittings, one with a > built-in restriction (3/8"). Part #H2894. They also list a similar GM > part, #10039163, used on some 4cyl S-10s, to restrict flow. > > I am pretty sure there is an in-line restrictor used on some Corvettes, > but I can't find in in JTR book. > > > > I know this is NC but I"ve exhausted my related Nissan/Datsun list w/ no > > > good info. > > > A few of us have sb chevy V8's and several have experienced heater core > > > problems d/2 higher/greater coolant flows/pressure (I don't know > > > specifically), they've replaced w/ brand new units and halfway thru > > winding > > > out and leaving another NSX (their ride, mine wouldn't do that;^) their > > > heater core will fail again. > > > They only discussed ways to just bypass the heater core which is simple > > but > > > I live in the often rainy pacific nw so need heat occassionally throughout > > > the year and would prefer some sort of pressure reducer mini-manifold but > > > I"m not familiar w/ what hardwar is out their or the simplest way to solve > > > this. I'm not sure if it's simply a matter of too much flow or pressure > > or > > > combo of both that fails them. Mine's still OK but I haven't ran it very > > > hard yet and want to preempt a painful heater core R&R etc. > > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada > > -- > Steve Ravet > ARM, INC > steve.ravet@arm.com > www.arm.com From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 01:51:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA09765 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:51:05 -0400 Received: from quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (root@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu [198.82.160.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA09761 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:51:03 -0400 Received: from sable.cc.vt.edu (sable.cc.vt.edu [128.173.16.30]) by quackerjack.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA18118 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from vt.edu (jballeng.campus.vt.edu [198.82.113.131]) by sable.cc.vt.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id BAA25395 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372BE861.3092A136@vt.edu> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 01:53:37 -0400 From: James Ballenger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> <372BC923.86669A84@vt.edu> <027b01be945d$ef2373e0$1f633acf@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > It reduces the amount of water bypasing the radiator, and also, helps to > pressurize the coolant in the head at higher rpm, reducing localized hot > spotting. Ok, I just didnt know which hole you were referring to. Would the increase in pressure at that point lead to a lower volume of water passed through the heads? Or would that be counter-acted by the decrease in volume at the bypass? > All, very good things.. The hole in the thermostat is to make sure no air > accumulates on the bottom side of it. If ya llook close on some hot rods > the first day after running the heater full one for weeks the temp guage > rises rather high the first time the thermostat opens. The colder the > weather the worse quicker this happens. I have seen people do this on each side of the thermostat, where did you drill the hole? James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 02:11:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10266 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:11:41 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA10263 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:11:40 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-16.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.85]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id CAA13917 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02cb01be9462$b4d4bfa0$1f633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> <372BC923.86669A84@vt.edu> <027b01be945d$ef2373e0$1f633acf@nacelp> <372BE861.3092A136@vt.edu> Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 02:12:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Ok, I just didnt know which hole you were referring to. Would the increase in > pressure at that point lead to a lower volume of water passed through the > heads? Or would that be counter-acted by the decrease in volume at the bypass? On the passenger side of the waterpump/block there is a bypass hole about 3/8" in diameter. Just look at a gasket and you'll see it. SBC. > > > All, very good things.. The hole in the thermostat is to make sure no air > > accumulates on the bottom side of it. If ya llook close on some hot rods > > the first day after running the heater full one for weeks the temp guage > > rises rather high the first time the thermostat opens. The colder the > > weather the worse quicker this happens. > > I have seen people do this on each side of the thermostat, where did you drill > the hole? Anywhere exposed to coolant. You just want a way for trapped air to pass the thermostat. Bruce > > James Ballenger > From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 02:12:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10278 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:12:04 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA10274 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:12:03 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 02:14:47 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id 11580.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:10:48 EDT Message-ID: <372BEA6B.B51A1A43@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 02:02:19 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Flame - Not References: <19990501.135441.13870.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > On Fri, 30 Apr 1999 22:21:36 -0400 (EDT) William T Wilson > writes: > >On Fri, 30 Apr 1999, H Villemure wrote: > > > >> I am more of an ignoramus than most on this list- just a fresh > >> mechanical engineering graduate. Could you detail what a *flathead* > >> motor design consists of? > > > >Yeah.. the heads are flat. ;) Nothing in them but the plugs. > > > >During the early part of the century up through the 50's, Ford made > >flathead V8s which were extremely good engines and used in a wide > variety > >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used > >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline > >6-cylinder. > > I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, > also. > Packard straight eight was flathead, I think the 6 cyl Jeep engine began life as a Willys Hercules 6, and I think Dodge made a flathead 6 cyl also. Then there's the 348/409 Chebby which has valves in head but no combustion cchamber cast in. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 02:32:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA10768 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:32:34 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA10764 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:32:33 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 02:35:18 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id 13e90.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:31:18 EDT Message-ID: <372BEF38.FE05270@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 02:22:48 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: John Deere References: <199905010622.CAA20306@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <372c9f00.527186@smtp.erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Charles wrote: > > On Sat, 1 May 1999 02:22:31 -0400, you wrote: > > > PUT na na na PUT na na PUT PUT PUT na na na na... > > >Sounds like a John Deere 2cyl tractor. Massive flywheel and long > >stroke crank made for similar sounds at idle. > >Shannen > > Actually, all my 2-cyl John Deere's go: > > PUT PUT na na PUT PUT na na PUT PUT na na. > > Fires at 0 and 180 degrees, then coasts for 540 degrees > (hence the massive flywheel). > > -Charles > JD 50 > JD 420 > ;) That's interesting about the timing. I do remember less consistency in the exhaust sound though, with an occasional POP thrown in to give the dogs something to bark at. Your Deeres are undoubtedly in a better state of tune. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 03:05:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11307 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:05:14 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11304 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:05:13 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 03:07:58 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id 187d0.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:03:58 EDT Message-ID: <372BF6E1.E8BA323D@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 02:55:29 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990501091036.03912b60@istar.ca> <00e201be93f8$363b9700$1f633acf@nacelp> <372BC923.86669A84@vt.edu> <027b01be945d$ef2373e0$1f633acf@nacelp> <372BE861.3092A136@vt.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James Ballenger wrote: > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > It reduces the amount of water bypasing the radiator, and also, helps to > > pressurize the coolant in the head at higher rpm, reducing localized hot > > spotting. > > Ok, I just didnt know which hole you were referring to. Would the increase in > pressure at that point lead to a lower volume of water passed through the > heads? Or would that be counter-acted by the decrease in volume at the bypass? The bypass allows coolant to return to the inlet side of the pump from the engine block. Reducing the diameter of the hole is akin to plugging a leak in a pressure line. There's more volume and pressure available at the end of the line with the leak plugged. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 03:48:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11896 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:48:22 -0400 Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11888 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:48:18 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-60.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.60]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id AAA24155 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:48:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <372BFEF3.1DF8@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 00:29:55 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu An additional consideration with re-grinding cams is the torsional relaxation caused by removing significant amounts of metal. This changes the phase relationships between lobes. I have in my possession a performance regrind TR6 cam which has a 14 degree phase error between front and rear lobe pair centers. The grind was done by a national rep grinder (and purportedly checked with their cam doctor). This is probably a worst-case deal, as this cam is long and slender, and has ~.125" additional lift ground-in, but much smaller phase errors screw things up noticeably. This too can be avoided by proper regrinding techniques, but once again, by the time you do it right, you coulda bought a new one... I check new ones too :) Regards, Jack From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 03:48:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA11895 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:48:22 -0400 Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA11890 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 03:48:20 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-60.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.60]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id AAA24161 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 00:48:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <372C0025.5133@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 00:35:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: floating flatheads References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Pardon me for interrupting the spirited repartee, but what the heck is a floating bearing, Greg? I know about inserts and rollers, have poured and bored babbit bushes... Piston pins "float" in rod bushes - Unless they don't. Perhaps you are referring to dip/splash oiling schemes, as opposed to pressure lubrication? Anyway, would appreciate an elaboration. Thanks, Jack From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 04:24:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA12690 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 04:24:12 -0400 Received: from sal.awwwsome.com (sal.awwwsome.com [206.155.34.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA12687 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 04:24:10 -0400 Received: from c9d2j6 ([206.155.34.164]) by sal.awwwsome.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34763U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA25484 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:23:55 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990502012347.00814320@sal.awwwsome.com> X-Sender: darkmon@sal.awwwsome.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 01:23:47 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:37 PM 5/1/99 -0600, you wrote: > >There was also the not-so modern SOHC hemi Tornado. Quite the motor in its >IKA (Argentinian) twelve port headed, triple DCEO Webered trim! (310 HP >from 230 cid at only 5200 rpm! > >Regards, Greg > > > Hey, cool, I've seen one but know nothing about them. What did they come in? The one I saw was a Jeep military truck, and did NOT have three DCOE Webers!! What would be packing the hot version? Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 05:53:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA13506 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 05:53:31 -0400 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA13503 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 05:53:27 -0400 From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com Received: from EFISYSTEMS@aol.com (259) by imo18.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id jLDUa16141 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 05:52:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <94ef9f93.245d7a65@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 05:52:37 EDT Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs,,,this is for Greg H.........I can feel flames coming To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Greg, And I was just starting to like this guy.......truly no offense Howard but you've got alot to learn..........I used to have people call me for advise just so they could tell me they've been doing it for over twenty years and I need to wipe behind my ears and all I could think was...man......twenty years and you still can't get it right????...just a youngsters thought.... -Carl Summers In a message dated 5/1/99 9:33:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owly@mcn.net writes: << Subj: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: 5/1/99 9:33:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: owly@mcn.net (Howard Wilkinson) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply-to: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg: More power to you if you can accomplish that...... I happen to live in the real world, and deal with old fashioned Ford & GM engines such as the FE series and the Small block & big block GM engines. The comment on life expectancy is based on 20+ years of working on these engines. I'd love to see a gas engine with a 500K life in a farm truck, and a bcsf below .35............. With the technology people are using around here the service life I spoke of is realistic based on real life experience, not labratory environments..... some go over 100K TBO, but not many, and it is a struggle to achieve a bcsf of .50 (impossible with a Holley carb). I've worked on a lot of engines over the years, but apparently not seen the bearing setup you describe...... I presume you are refering to Ford 239 engine when speaking of "flattys", and assume you speak of a single bearing spanning an entire rod journal (2 rods)..... I've owned vehicles with these engines, but never had to work on them. I'll believe the .35 and 500k figure when I see it in real life! >> From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 08:26:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA14752 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:26:47 -0400 Received: from mail-atm.nycap.rr.com (root@mail-100bt.nycap.rr.com [24.92.33.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA14749 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:26:46 -0400 Received: from nycap.rr.com (toshiba-46-175.nycap.rr.com [24.92.46.175]) by mail-atm.nycap.rr.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA09719 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:26:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <372C43FC.7D5F3626@nycap.rr.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 08:24:28 -0400 From: Glen Beard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: cam grinds for SC References: <199904291400.KAA07311@jsgpc.mrcday.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu jsg@donet.com wrote: > I'm about to install a Vortech supercharger on my SBC 305 TPI, and > I'm thinking about changing cams too. > > Of course that is of little help, and I would like some idea of what's > going on before contacting manufactures. So, what does make for a good > cam for applications like this? I'm running a CompCam's Extreme blower cam on my 6# Vortech supercharged LT1. It has 218i/230e with a 114 lobe sep. Lifts are .528i/.544e with 1.6:1 roller rockers. The exhaust side, as someone said earlier, needs a larger duration and lift to scavenge the exhaust gasses. Intake isn't as important as it was with the naturally aspirated engine because the blower increases the volumetric efficiency over 100% anyway. The lobe separation at 114 keeps the overlap smaller to prevent blowing your intake air/fuel charge right out the exhaust port. (power and fuel economy takes a dive) Check my page for all the other mods I have done. I'm making 450-500rwhp. (not certain anymore...) -- Glen Beard 95 T/A conv M6 Vortech open y-pipe ;) http://home.nycap.rr.com/gbeard1/TransAm.html From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 10:22:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15526 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:22:08 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15523 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:22:06 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.3] (p3.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.3]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA24011 for mail_from ; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:22:04 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 08:22:31 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >You don't have to slow the engine down, you reduce the transmission ratio. James--you are missing the whole point. An unthrottled engine, such as a diesel, at a constant speed is one thing. The biggest loss with a throttled engine is the pumping losses--so at light loads you would need to lug the engine down far enough to get only the output needed at WOT. The control problem is not so simple as holding a constant engine speed, even with a continuously variable tranny. Greg > >James Ballenger From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 10:23:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15551 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:23:54 -0400 Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15548 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:23:53 -0400 From: CEIJR@aol.com Received: from CEIJR@aol.com (7816) by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id jTVAa20661 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <335f9280.245db9c7@aol.com> Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:23:03 EDT Subject: Re: atomization enhancement To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James: About 5 data points each on four or five sets of injectors, just enough to show us that the injectors didn't follow predicted lines. Seldom as much as 15% off, but often 10% and never within 2% of predicted. A really good study would take a long time, and not realy do much, at least for our small race engine program, since engine efficiencies vary so much at different rpm's. Charlie Iliff From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 10:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15588 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:25:35 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15585 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:25:34 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-182.ts4.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.182]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA03653 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <024f01be94a7$3ac6a9e0$1f01d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <01be94ce$f838d300$44930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:10:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There has been some recent research that indicates the best atomization occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the intake valve when the valve opens. Atomization of fuel as it leaves the injector is not terribly important. Gary Derian > I'd like to propose a simple atomization enhancement strategy. It is > well known that higher pressure results in better atomization in a > fuel injection system.... Caterpillar has carried this to extremes and > has some diesel engines running ungodly high pressures....I don't know > the exact figures. > I propose changing out the injectors on my vehicle with injectors > rated for lower flow, and raising the pressure to compensate. > Pressure would be adjusted in "open loop" mode using an exhaust > analyzer. It has been said that most injectors are rated at pressures > far above what they are operated at. > I'm sure this is far from an original idea, and that some of you > have done it..... How much difference does it make, and what about > pump load at the higher pressures..... how much increase in pressure > is required. > I'd like to hear about peoples experiences and mishaps doing this > ;-) > > H.W. > From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 10:25:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA15599 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:25:49 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA15592 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:25:47 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-182.ts4.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.182]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA03675 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <025001be94a7$429a2480$1f01d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <372c216a.19083555@smtp.uia.net> Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:22:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Any time a device that restricts flow is introduced into the path of air and fuel, power is reduced. A pre-chamber is such a device and such an engine will lose efficiency compared to an open chamber design. As long as an engine runs lean enough to use all the available fuel, leaner is only useful to reduce pumping losses, which does improve economy, but leaner is not the only way to reduce pumping losses. Gary Derian snip > Try some out of box thinking. The propaganda is that Stratified Charge is to > facilitate burning an overall lean mixture thereby increasing milage. snip > , think about using two fuels. The first - thru the prechamber, is an easy to > ignite, relatively fast burning fuel that will generate a nice flame jet and > readily ignite the main chamber. snip From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 11:25:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16255 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:25:30 -0400 Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16252 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:25:28 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id IAA25292; Sun, 2 May 1999 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 08:25:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990502012347.00814320@sal.awwwsome.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 2 May 1999, Aaron Willis wrote: > At 10:37 PM 5/1/99 -0600, you wrote: > > > >There was also the not-so modern SOHC hemi Tornado. Quite the motor in its > >IKA (Argentinian) twelve port headed, triple DCEO Webered trim! (310 HP > >from 230 cid at only 5200 rpm! > > > Hey, cool, I've seen one but know nothing about them. What did they come > in? The one I saw was a Jeep military truck, and did NOT have three DCOE > Webers!! What would be packing the hot version? > Jeep used the Continental 6-226 for years. A typical long stroke flathead engine. Jeep even called some models the 6-226. As an elcheapo way of modernizing this ancient engine, they came up with the OHC head. The long, spindly 6-226 connecting rods loved the higher RPM that came with the new head...NOT. Most of these engines [that I saw] were on auto wrecker core piles. The head always looked OK which is more than you could say about the sides of the block. Oh, yeah. Continental has an interesting policy on parts prices. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 11:55:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16701 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:14 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16697 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:12 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-069.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.69]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02795 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:55:32 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:22:53 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9641$fb69ad00$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It would seem to me that no matter what you do as far as restriction, as soon as the key is shut off, the increase in cooling system pressure will be equal throughout the system. I find it hard to imagine that the heater core would be subjected to enough increased pressure from the water pump to be an issue. The water pump mainly creates a pressure differential throughout the system so that coolant can circulate..... I suspect that there is very little if any increase relative to atmospheric pressure over what the static system pressure is. A good heater core should be capable of withstanding any internal cooling system pressure likely to be seen in an automobile with a properly functioning pressure cap. H.W. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 11:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16706 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:18 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16703 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:17 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-069.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.69]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02830 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:55:38 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:48:55 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9645$9ee88160$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Greg: I've personally seen irrigation pump motors run on propane over 10K hrs. This is a considerably different environment than a farm truck. As for Holley carbs, it is unfortunate that pot metal has very low salvage value. I'll just have to take your word for it on the potential of these carbs.... I've never seen it. When you do get one of these working halfway decently, they have a very short life expectancy between overhauls. I've over the years replaced every Holly carb I ever owned with the good old style Autolight / Motorcraft carbs that actually can be made to work correctly and efficiently throughout their operating range. It is unfortunate that the Holly, Motorcraft, and Autolight carb familys used neoprene diaphragms in accelerator pumps and in power valves.... they don't like today's gas at all. Personally I feel that of the 4 bbl carbs available, the plain old Quadrajet would have had the most potential of any of them if they had only made replaceable secondary orfices.... once these are worn there's nothing to be done. I've built a puller and removed them, and I suppose you could manufacture a replacement, but...... Now we've got EFI. I take nearly all horsepower claims with more than a grain of salt...... I also must confess to be a grave doubter of bscf numbers. What I've often run into in the aviation field are people who state the max horsepower, and then state a fuel consumption figure which is obviously taken at 20% or 30% throttle in such a way as to imply that their engine for example puts out 100 hp on 2 gpm when in truth their 100hp engine will not put out a sustained 100hp, nor will it do it on the absurd figure of 2gpm. The engine is in fact putting out about 24 hp when the fuel consumption is measured. I suspect that this nonsense is not confined only to aviation. All bscf figures which exceed .5 by very much automatically fall under suspicion here :-)..... No offense intended. H.W. -----Original Message----- From: Greg Hermann >The 500K figure takes a good engine to begin with, and then some high tech >tricks and quality parts on top of that. The engine I have started out with >has a lengthy track record of running 10K hours on the heads, and 25 K >hours on the bottom end, on natural gas, at about 80% load, 2400 rpm on >well head irrigation pump applications. And that--with "farmer" >maintenance! So--I think, with some careful attention to details, my >durability goal is attainable. > >As to the bsfc--check out some dyno charts for small block f & c engines >running IR manifolded Weber carbs. .375 bsfc is common on these engines >with this type of an induction setup and good headers--given a competent >tuner. In fact--these numbers could just lead a guy to believe that there >is something to this business of wanting better fuel atomization and a fuel >squirt timed to coincide with high inhale velocity in the port! So--with >good efi, .35 should be within reach for light loads. The real challenge >will be in seeing how much lower than that can be had!! A competently tuned >Holley will get down to about .45 bsfc on a decent motor, in my experience. >(Somewhat lower if not into the power valve, and maybe just a little higher >at WOT if you know how to set the pvcr correctly.) > >Regards, Greg > > > From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 11:55:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16721 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:22 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16714 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:21 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-069.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.69]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02857 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:55:42 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:51:19 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9645$f3fe6d40$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu James: I'm not speaking of keeping the engine constant..... only keeping it a WOT........ The RPM is the throttle and is controlled by the gearing and load. H.W. -----Original Message----- From: James Ballenger To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 12:17 AM Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs > > >Howard Wilkinson wrote: > >> My thinking is that if you provide a high enough gear ratio to >> accomplish the objective of nearly always being able to throttle with >> the transmission, it will at times be >> necessary to gear down further than your belt drive transmission >> allows for power, just as gravity may overcome your ability to >> throttle with load at the other end. H.W. > >I agree, though I would say a wide enough gear ratio rather than high >enough because the range would have to be beyond the scope of todays >transmissions to keep the engine constant. > >James Ballenger > > From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 11:55:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA16731 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:27 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA16727 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:55:26 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-069.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.69]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02893 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 09:55:47 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:00:47 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9647$46261d60$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Jack: I have long suspected that many cams have considerable error in the alignment of lobe centers. I once was asked to change out the third Subaru (EA 81) engine for a fellow who had installed 2 rebuilt engines only to have to return them to the rebuilder due to rattling. This was a major Seattle area rebuilder. When I looked at the engine pior to removal to determine exactly what was happening, I discovered that it was valve noise, but that it couldn't be adjusted out of it. This seemed odd to me, so I took measurements with feeler guages while turning the engine over a little at a time, an discovered a low spot right at the base of the ramp which when proper adjustment was made opposite the lobe yielded a measurement of about .025. Human error seem to be inescapable. Unfortunately with camshafts it is very difficult to verify that they are what they are supposed to be. H.W. -----Original Message----- From: goflo@pacbell.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 2:39 AM Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) >An additional consideration with re-grinding cams is the >torsional relaxation caused by removing significant amounts >of metal. This changes the phase relationships between lobes. >I have in my possession a performance regrind TR6 cam which >has a 14 degree phase error between front and rear lobe pair >centers. The grind was done by a national rep grinder (and >purportedly checked with their cam doctor). > >This is probably a worst-case deal, as this cam is long and >slender, and has ~.125" additional lift ground-in, but much >smaller phase errors screw things up noticeably. >This too can be avoided by proper regrinding techniques, but >once again, by the time you do it right, you coulda bought a >new one... > >I check new ones too :) > >Regards, Jack > > > From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 12:04:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17101 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:04:35 -0400 Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17098 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:04:34 -0400 Received: (from cosmic.ray@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id D9MH8XS4; Sun, 02 May 1999 12:04:15 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:47:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Message-ID: <19990502.130410.9254.0.Cosmic.Ray@juno.com> References: <01be9442$db3b46c0$6d930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <372BE6CA.76906E73@vt.edu> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-6,8-9,11,13,15,17,19-22,24,26,28-30,32,34-36,38, 40,42,44,46,48-50,52-53,55-57,59-65,68-71,74-75,77-79,83-84,86-91 From: Raymond C Drouillard Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 02 May 1999 01:46:50 -0400 James Ballenger writes: > > >Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > >> CHANGING THE GEARING CHANGES THE ENGINE SPEED! THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT! > > Shifting gears changes the engine speed. The point is if we didnt need >to shift and had a smooth transition through the whole range we could keep >the engine rpm constant. When you are in first gear you rev up the engine in >a static gear and then shift it to start reving in a new static gear. You >could make the gearing dynamic, a cvt, and be able to keep the engine speed >constant. > > >> A CVT doesn't change the power (besides the ordinary efficiency losses). >> If you attempt to reduce the torque to the drive wheels by changing the >> gear ratio, you will either slow down the engine or speed up the vehicle. >> >> An unthrottled engine running at a specific speed (max torque, for >> example) is going to put out a specific amount of power. If this is more >> power than is required to maintain the desired cruise speed, the vehicle >> will speed up. > > A cvt wouldnt change the effective torque at the crank, but would modify >it at the drive wheels. What happens if you keep your rpm constant and shift >from 1st to 4th? You can keep the load on the engine constant and therefore >the rpm constant by changing the gear ratio. I suppose a problem occurs >when there is little load on the engine, but the could be countered by an >insanely low (numerically) gear keeping in mind I am discussing a perfect cvt >with infinite range. > >> If you want to prevent this without throttling - that is, if you want to >> maintain the same cruise speed without throttling, you will need to >> change the gear ratio. Assuming that you don't speed up, the engine will >> HAVE to slow down. > >You don't have to slow the engine down, you reduce the transmission ratio. > >James Ballenger > James, Please find a textbook or go to the library and look up the formulas that relate torque, speed, and power. Also, look up the formulas that relate gear ratio, torque multiplication, and speed multiplication. I have memorized them long ago. A lot of what you are saying flys directly in the face of those mathematical relationships. I have tried very patiently to explain how such a system will work, but something just isn't working. After you have memorized those formulas, reread the messages. If you do this, enlightenment will come. Hint: If you run an engine at WOT, it will produce a specific amount of power at a specific speed. If this power is more than necessary to overcome friction, the vehicle WILL speed up. It makes no difference whether you are using a stepped or continuously variable transmission. Adding a control system to a CVT will succeed in keeping the engine speed stady, but the vehicle will STILL speed up. It's simple physics. Look up the formulas and try to apply them. Ray Drouillard, BSEE ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 12:12:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17241 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:12:34 -0400 Received: from mailhost2.attcanada.net (mailhost2.attcanada.net [206.191.82.43]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17237 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:12:33 -0400 Received: from d189-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net ([142.194.124.189]) by mailhost2.attcanada.net (InterMail v03.02.07.03 118-128) with SMTP id <19990502161245.FTI21624@d189-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:12:45 +0000 Received: by d189-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BE9484.2EF11CE0@d189-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net>; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:11:45 -0600 Message-ID: <01BE9484.2EF11CE0@d189-cg101h1-clgr-pdi.attcanada.net> From: Marc Piccioni To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: thank you Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:11:37 -0600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Just a short note to say that I am dropping off the list for a while, due to an extended trip. I wish to thank all the members who have answered my newbie EFI questions. Regards /Marc From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 12:21:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA17436 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:21:07 -0400 Received: from mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (mail2.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.56]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA17433 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:21:06 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-114.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.114]) by mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA13081 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:20:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990502122000.00948100@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 12:21:01 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: atomization enhancement In-Reply-To: <024f01be94a7$3ac6a9e0$1f01d4cd@gderian> References: <01be94ce$f838d300$44930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:10 AM 5/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >There has been some recent research that indicates the best atomization >occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the intake valve when >the valve opens. Atomization of fuel as it leaves the injector is not >terribly important. Yes, but that's not atomization, that's vaporization... and if it's caused by the exhaust hitting the puddled fuel, that means it's being blown back into the intake runner causing intake dilution and fuel distribution problems. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 13:03:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18124 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:03:14 -0400 Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18121 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:03:12 -0400 From: goflo@pacbell.net Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-206-170-125-104.sndg02.pacbell.net [206.170.125.104]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id KAA00786 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 10:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <372C86E0.2F42@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 10:09:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBXG (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) References: <01be9647$46261d60$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Not real familiar with Subaru grinds, but involute ramps are common in some designs - Chrysler went through many permutations of such on 2.2/2.5 motors, for instance. Regrinding such profiles with conventional regrinding equipment is possible, but a poor job will result in an engine which runs poorly, for no obvious reason... Regards, Jack Howard Wilkinson wrote: > > Jack: > I have long suspected that many cams have considerable error in > the alignment of lobe centers. > I once was asked to change out the third Subaru (EA 81) engine for > a fellow who had installed 2 rebuilt engines only to have to return > them to the rebuilder due to rattling. This was a major Seattle area > rebuilder. When I looked at the engine pior to removal to determine > exactly what was happening, I discovered that it was valve noise, but > that it couldn't be adjusted out of it. This seemed odd to me, so I > took measurements with feeler guages while turning the engine over a > little at a time, an discovered a low spot right at the base of the > ramp which when proper adjustment was made opposite the lobe yielded a > measurement of about .025. > Human error seem to be inescapable. Unfortunately with camshafts > it is very difficult to verify that they are what they are supposed to > be. H.W. > > -----Original Message----- > From: goflo@pacbell.net > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 2:39 AM > Subject: Re: Cam regrinds feasible? (roller regrind) > > >An additional consideration with re-grinding cams is the > >torsional relaxation caused by removing significant amounts > >of metal. This changes the phase relationships between lobes. > >I have in my possession a performance regrind TR6 cam which > >has a 14 degree phase error between front and rear lobe pair > >centers. The grind was done by a national rep grinder (and > >purportedly checked with their cam doctor). > > > >This is probably a worst-case deal, as this cam is long and > >slender, and has ~.125" additional lift ground-in, but much > >smaller phase errors screw things up noticeably. > >This too can be avoided by proper regrinding techniques, but > >once again, by the time you do it right, you coulda bought a > >new one... > > > >I check new ones too :) From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 13:43:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18732 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:43:50 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18729 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:43:49 -0400 Received: from ms01-193.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.193] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10e0HK-0006Ti-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:43:46 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990502101411.01574630@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 10:24:17 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? In-Reply-To: <01be9641$fb69ad00$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howard, I don't know any data specific terms to the heater core failures my southern friends experienced (I'm in BC and they're all in the US) but it always went during a WOT dust off of some other hipo car. They replaced initially w/ junkyard units, they failed, then with several Nissan units to find they failed under same circumstances. My inexperienced slant at it is they had a far higher volume/flow than that heater core would normally experience d/2 their rate of acceleration/ hybrid chevy systems/ and most likely the Nissan pumps weren't designed for this flow. If not designed for that flow and given much higher flow than OEM it could create higher pressure than they were designed for given their has to be restrictions in the heater core system leading to this pressure increase (if flow isn't accomodated pressure goes up). I agree w/ you that static pressure as you described shouldn't be a problem as the systems are very similar in design pressures and all related components were in as new condition. These were all low 4 second 0-60 cars setup as sweet daily drivers on NA chevy's. Not fun having a heater core blow during a WOT high speed run that fogs your windshield. Just dont' want that to be me. thanks again for all this feedback, I"m going to gather them up as a FAQ to post on my page eventually for us ZV8's. FWIW, their Datsun heater cores were 20+ yrs old and functioning fine when they first went, no quality problems their. At 08:22 AM 5/4/99 -0700, you wrote: >It would seem to me that no matter what you do as far as restriction, >as soon as the key is shut off, the increase in cooling system >pressure will be equal throughout the system. I find it hard to >imagine that the heater core would be subjected to enough increased >pressure from the water pump to be an issue. The water pump mainly >creates a pressure differential throughout the system so that coolant >can circulate..... I suspect that there is very little if any increase >relative to atmospheric pressure over what the static system pressure >is. A good heater core should be capable of withstanding any internal >cooling system pressure likely to be seen in an automobile with a >properly functioning pressure cap. H.W. > > > Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 13:56:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA18919 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:56:07 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA18916 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:56:06 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-45.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.114]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id NAA15713 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007f01be94c5$20dbdaa0$72198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <01be94ce$f838d300$44930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <024f01be94a7$3ac6a9e0$1f01d4cd@gderian> Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:56:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Also, be advised many of the low end aromatics boil at 120-150dF depending on the seasonal brew. Bruce > There has been some recent research that indicates the best atomization > occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the intake valve when > the valve opens. Atomization of fuel as it leaves the injector is not > terribly important. > Gary Derian > I'd like to propose a simple atomization enhancement strategy. It is > > well known that higher pressure results in better atomization in a > > fuel injection system.... Caterpillar has carried this to extremes and > > has some diesel engines running ungodly high pressures....I don't know > > the exact figures. > > I propose changing out the injectors on my vehicle with injectors > > rated for lower flow, and raising the pressure to compensate. > > Pressure would be adjusted in "open loop" mode using an exhaust > > analyzer. It has been said that most injectors are rated at pressures > > far above what they are operated at. > > I'm sure this is far from an original idea, and that some of you > > have done it..... How much difference does it make, and what about > > pump load at the higher pressures..... how much increase in pressure > > is required. > > I'd like to hear about peoples experiences and mishaps doing this H.W. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 14:01:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19081 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:01:52 -0400 Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19078 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:01:51 -0400 Received: from terminus.idirect.com (terminus.idirect.com [207.136.80.70]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23129 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wsherwin (liv4-13.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.7.13]) by terminus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA26152 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d801be94de$cf3bb5c0$0d079ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Check Valve... Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:59:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Another quick question for you guys... :) > >Anyone know of a source for an inline, high pressure check valve...in either >a 5/16" or 3/8" (dual barbed), or -6AN? Talk to Kinsler Fuel Injection (1-248-362-1145). They have two different style check valves (and fittings for same), which can be used expressly for this purpose . The first is a "flapper" style check, which has the advantages of a very low cracking pressure and good flow potential. The second is of the "spring loaded poppet" style, which offers more positive sealing while imposing a relatively high cracking pressure. If purchasing industrial hydraulic equivalents (Parker, etc...), be mindful of the overall flow potential and pressure drop issues. They can tend to be somewhat constricted internally, despite the appearance of large entry/exit ports. Walt. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 14:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19561 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:25:35 -0400 Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19558 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:25:34 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id LAA14312 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seacon.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 2 May 1999 18:26:22 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F469@sea-mail> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: valve job question Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:24:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu question for the group mind. In my younger days when doing valve jobs for customers cars, I would clean off the carbon that was on top of the cylinders. I used to rotate the engine around and bring the pistons up to tdc and whirl away with a drill bit mounted wire brush. nowadays I wonder if all it did was make the piston top pretty and introduce lots of debris into the engine especially the cylinder walls, creating years of wear in minutes. I'm doing a valve job on my Chevy v8, and I don't want to incur any more wear on the cylinder walls nor do I really want to spin the motor around as I want to drop the distributor right back in where I pulled it. the engine was leaking oil past the guides and has a uniform amount of build up on top of the pistons. should I leave it alone, ? spray some chemical thing on the top and leave it then wipe it all away , then most likely leave some lubricant in the cylinders. or do something else ? thanks, Ted Stowe From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 14:34:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19710 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:34:03 -0400 Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19707 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:34:02 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id LAA15241 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 11:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seacon.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 2 May 1999 18:34:50 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F46A@sea-mail> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: machine shop suggestion needed for drilling side draft intake man ifold for injectors Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 11:32:44 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu hi. I have a cast iron intake for a inline 4 cyl that I would like to have drilled for injectors. it is a challenge to make this work and if I had a manifold to practice on I'd do it myself but I'd rather have someone who knows what they are doing handle it. (cast iron, thin, and the surface area is curved) can anyone give me any suggestions for speed shops , or whatever that could do this ? thanks. Ted. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 14:51:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19927 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:51:02 -0400 Received: from box1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-77.s14.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.77]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19922 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:50:59 -0400 Received: from xephic.dynip.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by box1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id KDZCGY60; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:50:56 -0400 Message-ID: <372C9E90.DBD94F63@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 14:50:56 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Organization: Xephic Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: machine shop suggestion needed for drilling side draft intake manifold for injectors References: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F46A@sea-mail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > I have a cast iron intake for a inline 4 cyl that I would like to have > drilled for injectors. I just did this on my aluminum intake, and the concepts are the same. http://www.xephic.dynip.com/dodge/383intake.htm > it is a challenge to make this work and if I had a manifold to practice on > I'd do it myself but I'd rather have someone who knows what they are doing > handle it. Since mine was aluminum, it was easier than cast iron to bore using "stubby" drill bits in my drill press. The injector bungs were made out of aluminum tubing, lathed to fit the contour of the injectors, then TIG welded in. Normally I use the www.durafix.com product, however I had an opportunity to learn how to TIG recently, then use my friend's welder to achieve this. However, if you can drill the holes yourself, or pay someone to drill them, you can still braze in the injector bungs yourself. The durafix site if you call them used to have steel brazing rods that work on the same principle, however I didn't see them on the website. Anyway, using a propane torch, you can braze in steel injector bungs and make a nice seal. JB Weld will achieve the same thing. Another option my friend came up with is to thread the injector bungs, thread the milled holes in the intake, and wrap teflon tape (or use locktite) around the threads and screw them in. I hope that helped. --- Frederic Breitwieser Xephic Technology "Leadership in IT" Bridgeport, CT 06606 Web: http://www.xephic.dynip.com Voice: (203) 372-2707 Fax: (603) 372-1147 From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 14:51:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA19962 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:51:50 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA19958 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:51:49 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-45.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.114]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id OAA01214 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:51:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c701be94cc$e97ee7c0$72198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F469@sea-mail> Subject: Re: valve job question Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 14:52:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Once ya get tit reassembles just use a plant mister, and spray in some water. Not alot, at once just a little for a while. Steam cleans.. Next time might do it first. Bruce > nowadays I wonder if all it did was make the piston top pretty and introduce > lots of debris into the engine especially the cylinder walls, creating years > of wear in minutes. > I'm doing a valve job on my Chevy v8, and I don't want to incur any more > wear on the cylinder walls nor do I really want to spin the motor around as > I want to drop the distributor right back in where I pulled it. > the engine was leaking oil past the guides and has a uniform amount of build > up on top of the pistons. > should I > leave it alone, ? > spray some chemical thing on the top and leave it then wipe it all away , > then most likely leave some lubricant in the cylinders. > or do something else ? thanks, Ted Stowe From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 14:54:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA20047 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:54:42 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20044 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 14:54:40 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04782 for mail_from ; Sun, 2 May 1999 12:54:38 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 12:55:05 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >On Sun, 2 May 1999, Aaron Willis wrote: > >> At 10:37 PM 5/1/99 -0600, you wrote: >> > >> >There was also the not-so modern SOHC hemi Tornado. Quite the motor in its >> >IKA (Argentinian) twelve port headed, triple DCEO Webered trim! (310 HP >> >from 230 cid at only 5200 rpm! >> > >> Hey, cool, I've seen one but know nothing about them. What did they come >> in? The one I saw was a Jeep military truck, and did NOT have three DCOE >> Webers!! What would be packing the hot version? >> >Jeep used the Continental 6-226 for years. A typical long stroke flathead >engine. Jeep even called some models the 6-226. As an elcheapo way of >modernizing this ancient engine, they came up with the OHC head. The long, >spindly 6-226 connecting rods loved the higher RPM that came with the new >head...NOT. > >Most of these engines [that I saw] were on auto wrecker core piles. The >head always looked OK which is more than you could say about the sides of >the block. > >Oh, yeah. Continental has an interesting policy on parts prices. All true. The Argentinian Kaiser plant in Cordoba came up with some revised rods along with the twelve port head. The car you would find such a beast in was called a "Torino"--but not at all like a Ford by the same name. It was based on the late sixties Rambler American body tub, but had an outer skin done by Pinin Farina. It also had IRS, and about 8 inches of wheel travel at each corner, and a five speed gear box which was built under license from ZF. The IKA Torinos absolutely dominated closed circuit AND over the road racing in south america for a number of years, and one or two of them even got entered in the endurance race at the Nurbergring one year, but they were not very successful, mostly due to the rather long logistics line from home. Note the rather low engine speed for the peak power on the Torino version of the Tornado engine--this speaks to Jim's comments about the Continental block, even with far better rods installed. Scary to think how much power they could have made with a stronger block and crank and some more revs and 48 mm in place of 45 mm Webers! In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head (individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high revver. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 15:08:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20170 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:08:53 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20167 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:08:51 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA04916 for mail_from ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:08:49 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:09:17 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >It would seem to me that no matter what you do as far as restriction, >as soon as the key is shut off, the increase in cooling system >pressure will be equal throughout the system. I find it hard to >imagine that the heater core would be subjected to enough increased >pressure from the water pump to be an issue. The water pump mainly >creates a pressure differential throughout the system so that coolant >can circulate..... I suspect that there is very little if any increase >relative to atmospheric pressure over what the static system pressure >is. A good heater core should be capable of withstanding any internal >cooling system pressure likely to be seen in an automobile with a >properly functioning pressure cap. H.W. Your suspicions and imaginings are incorrect on this one, Howard. While the heater core may or may not take the pressure OK, the water pump makes a substantial amount of pressure head inside the water jackets. And this additional head is VERY important to preventing localized boiling (beyond nucleate boiling) in the hottest parts of the heads. The head is created by the restriction to coolant flow which is provided by the thermostat, and is why a thermostat should not be removed (or, if it is, should be replaced by something which restricts coolant flow to the same extent as the stat did). The pressure head which the water pump generates is proportional to the square of the pump rpm, and at , say, 5000 pump rpm, for a pump with an impeller the size of most water pumps, it would not be unreasonable to expect to see 25 or 30 psi of pressure in the water jackets in ADDITION the pressure from the radiator cap!! And if the thermostat restriction is removed, the water pump will cavitate due to not having enough NPSH at the resulting (higher flow at less developed head) point on its curve for that particular impeller speed! Regads, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 15:21:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20349 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:21:33 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20346 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:21:31 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05066 for mail_from ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:21:29 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:21:58 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >At 10:10 AM 5/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >>There has been some recent research that indicates the best atomization >>occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the intake valve when >>the valve opens. Atomization of fuel as it leaves the injector is not >>terribly important. > >Yes, but that's not atomization, that's vaporization... and if it's caused >by the exhaust hitting the puddled fuel, that means it's being blown back >into the intake runner causing intake dilution and fuel distribution problems. BINGO, Dave!! Not to mention that this approach to fuel vaporization is thermodynamically far less efficient than ATOMIZATION! Using the latent heat of the fuel to cool the inlet valve, only so the valve can rob heat from the next power stroke to heat back up is a thermal inefficiency. Letting the latent heat of well atomized fuel make the compression process in the cylinder more nearly isothermal than adiabatic increases net power output by reducing the amount of work which the engine must do during the compression stroke! Good vaporization of fuel is important to emissions--but it can happen either way. Good atomization of fuel is important only to power and efficiency, so it has been somewhat shortchanged in the research funding. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 15:34:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20592 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:34:14 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20589 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:34:13 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05263 for mail_from ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:34:11 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:34:38 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: floating flatheads Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Pardon me for interrupting the spirited repartee, but what >the heck is a floating bearing, Greg? I know about inserts >and rollers, have poured and bored babbit bushes... >Piston pins "float" in rod bushes - Unless they don't. >Perhaps you are referring to dip/splash oiling schemes, as >opposed to pressure lubrication? >Anyway, would appreciate an elaboration. > >Thanks, Jack There is clearance between the bearing insert and the housing, as well as between the bearing insert and its journal. Sometimes, such a bearing is pinned to the housing, as in turbochargers (if you have a copy of the McInnes book, there is a write up on them, as applied to turbos, in there). I believe that for a while, like in the late forties, floating rod bearing were the supposedly "hot set-up" to have in a lakester flatty. Didn't mean to be quite so sharp with the guy, but I really do HATE to see so much mis-info coming from one source, all at once, with such an authoritative tone! After all--there do seem to be some on the list who really want to learn, and that kind of stuff does not help them at all! As far as I am concerned--twenty years of maintaining farm equipment in the way that most of that poor stuff gets taken care of is twenty years of doing things wrong that the guy needs to un-learn! Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 15:35:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20646 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:35:17 -0400 Received: from mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20642 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:35:16 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-114.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.114]) by mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA17099 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990502153201.0093f830@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 15:34:58 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: atomization enhancement In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 01:21 PM 5/2/99 -0600, you wrote: > >BINGO, Dave!! > >Not to mention that this approach to fuel vaporization is thermodynamically >far less efficient than ATOMIZATION! Using the latent heat of the fuel to >cool the inlet valve, only so the valve can rob heat from the next power >stroke to heat back up is a thermal inefficiency. Letting the latent heat >of well atomized fuel make the compression process in the cylinder more >nearly isothermal than adiabatic increases net power output by reducing the >amount of work which the engine must do during the compression stroke! I would presume thebest of both worlds for efficiency and power would be to have injectors large enough to be able to inject all the fuel needed for each stroke while the valve was open... Atomized fuel enters the combustion chamber with the air. Problems come at low RPM/load situations where the injector is now too large to flow small quantities efficiently... How about 2 injectors per cyl, say a 10lb/hr and a 60 lb/hr, the 10 is used for idle, the larger is slowly phased in as RPM/load increases to keep the total injection squirt during the valve open time. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 15:57:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA20884 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:57:19 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA20881 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 15:57:18 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.4] (p4.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.4]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA05499 for mail_from ; Sun, 2 May 1999 13:57:15 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 13:57:43 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Howard, I don't know any data specific terms to the heater core failures my >southern friends experienced (I'm in BC and they're all in the US) but it >always went during a WOT dust off of some other hipo car. They replaced >initially w/ junkyard units, they failed, then with several Nissan units to >find they failed under same circumstances. My inexperienced slant at it is >they had a far higher volume/flow than that heater core would normally >experience d/2 their rate of acceleration/ hybrid chevy systems/ and most >likely the Nissan pumps weren't designed for this flow. If not designed >for that flow and given much higher flow than OEM it could create higher >pressure than they were designed for given their has to be restrictions in >the heater core system leading to this pressure increase (if flow isn't >accomodated pressure goes up). I agree w/ you that static pressure as you >described shouldn't be a problem as the systems are very similar in design >pressures and all related components were in as new condition. > Your evaluation is spot on, Ross! If the higher pump head pressure from the larger, faster turning water pump did not get the cores immediately, the pitting corrosion from the higher flow velocities than intended would get them before too long. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 16:19:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21253 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:19:23 -0400 Received: from serv1.is1.u-net.net (serv1.is1.u-net.net [195.102.240.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21249 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:19:21 -0400 Received: from [212.229.170.25] (helo=f3.u-net.com) by serv1.is1.u-net.net with smtp (Exim 2.00 #2) for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu id 10e2e0-0000GW-00; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:15:20 +0000 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:25:11 +0100 X-Mailer: Virtual Access by Atlantic Coast PLC, http://www.soft-shop.com Message-Id: To: DIY_EFI Mailing List Subject: Crank position sensor relocation query. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Chris Wilson Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I am running a Honda Mugen Formula 3 single seater race engine,in a chassis that is much later than the power unit.I have an interference problem,with the exotically materialed and manufactured primary pipes fouling an adaptor on the back of the exhaust cam,that acts as a crank position sensor.The management system is Mugens own,and this adaptor is a coil,with a ferrite core.Across the end of the core rotates a drum,with an iron segment moulded into it.The whole assembly is mounted in a die cast casing,that bolts to the back of the exhaust cam housing.The primaries foul this casing,quite severely.I either remake the primaries,which are in titanium,and a work of art,or I move the crank position sensor.The inlet cam has the distributor,with a toothed wheel sender also within it,to give RPM readings,bolted to the back of the cam housing,opposite the position sender.Where does the team suggest I could get a crank position signal from? Any neat ideas? Thanks. -- Best Regards, Chris Wilson. http://www.maximum-bhp.u-net.com From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 16:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA21595 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:37:14 -0400 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA21592 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:37:13 -0400 Received: from [212.229.170.25] (helo=f3) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10e2z9-0001S3-0A for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:37:11 +0000 Message-ID: <002401be94dc$5fc032e0$0201a8c0@unet.com> From: "Chris Wilson" To: References: <199904290046.IAA06309@silver.hkabc.net> Subject: Re: Toyota management mod limitations?? Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 21:42:56 +0100 Organization: Gatesgarth Racing Developments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: WILMAN To: Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 1:38 AM Subject: Re: Toyota management mod limitations?? > Try gems@gems.co.uk. They do an " Implant" for Toyota ECU's which then > allow them to be programmable. OK,thanks,they are a UK firm,so handy for us.We will check this out.Appreciative of the information,cheers. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 17:19:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22314 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:19:44 -0400 Received: from benatar.snurgle.org (fluffy@c266492-a.lakwod1.co.home.com [24.1.8.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22311 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:19:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (fluffy@localhost) by benatar.snurgle.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15900 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:18:40 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:18:34 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: Re: valve job question In-Reply-To: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F469@sea-mail> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 2 May 1999, Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > In my younger days when doing valve jobs for customers cars, I would clean > off the carbon that was on top of the cylinders. I used to rotate the engine > around and bring the pistons up to tdc and whirl away with a drill bit > mounted wire brush. The problem with this is that it will drop little bits of carbon goop down between the piston and the cylinder, where they will make things sad. This is not the end of the world, but it doesn't do it any good, either. Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that important because they just come right back when the engine runs the next time. Last time I had the head off an engine, I used a little scraper tool to scoop all the gunk onto the center of the piston, where I can vacuum it up. No gunk in the cylinder. > should I leave it alone, ? You may as well, unless there's a whole bunch of it. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 17:55:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA22808 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:55:20 -0400 Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA22805 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:55:19 -0400 Received: from orion.idirect.com (orion.idirect.com [207.136.80.167]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20698 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wsherwin (liv2-3.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.6.131]) by orion.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA75384 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 17:55:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004e01be94ff$824fed00$83069ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:54:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >The pressure head which the water pump generates is proportional to the >square of the pump rpm, and at , say, 5000 pump rpm, for a pump with an >impeller the size of most water pumps, it would not be unreasonable to >expect to see 25 or 30 psi of pressure in the water jackets in ADDITION the >pressure from the radiator cap!! And if the thermostat restriction is >removed, the water pump will cavitate due to not having enough NPSH at the >resulting (higher flow at less developed head) point on its curve for that >particular impeller speed! > >Regads, Greg > Greg, what you say here is quite correct. A couple of years ago, we flogged a near stock BBC (with stock serpentine water pump) for several days on a well equipped dyno. One of the measured parameters was the post pump water jacket pressure. We were quite surprised to observe approximately 55psig of "head" (from a 15psig baseline) at 5000 engine RPM. Post examination of the data revealed the expected speed/pressure curve of a generic centrifugal pump. Walt. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 18:16:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA23204 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:16:51 -0400 Received: from icarus.idirect.com (icarus.idirect.com [207.136.80.7]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA23201 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:16:50 -0400 Received: from orion.idirect.com (orion.idirect.com [207.136.80.167]) by icarus.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23490 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from wsherwin (liv2-13.oshawa.idirect.com [216.154.6.141]) by orion.idirect.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA78814 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 18:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007101be9502$839054e0$83069ad8@wsherwin> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: Subject: Re: Need Fuel Injector Data Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 18:15:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Take a peek at Saturn injector 17109717, from the 1.9Litre engine, or 17109718 from same. They are both low impedance, and around 17 #/Hr @ 44 psig. Good Luck! Walt. >A friend of mine and I are working on an unusual project. We are adapting a >'93 Saturn ECM and two DIS modules to run a Continental O-200 aircraft >engine. The engine is 200 C.I. (3.3 L) 4 cylinder dual plug and should make >about 120 HP at about 2800 RPM. > From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 19:05:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23843 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:05:44 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23840 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:05:43 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 19:08:41 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.15] by grolen.com id 98900.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:04:32 EDT Message-ID: <372CD801.133DC730@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 18:56:01 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990502101411.01574630@istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ross Corrigan wrote: > thanks again for all this feedback, I"m going to gather them up as a FAQ to > post on my page eventually for us ZV8's. > > FWIW, their Datsun heater cores were 20+ yrs old and functioning fine when > they first went, no quality problems their. Ross, what kind of car is this? I ran SB Chevy (several, actually) in a 240Z and never experienced a problem. WOT dustoff?? When do you need WOT?? ; ) Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 19:11:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA23955 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:11:49 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA23952 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:11:48 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 19:14:46 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.15] by grolen.com id 99500.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:10:32 EDT Message-ID: <372CD969.363133B@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:02:02 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: valve job question References: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F469@sea-mail> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > > should I > > spray some chemical thing on the top and leave it then wipe it all away , > then most likely leave some lubricant in the cylinders. > > thanks, Ted Stowe For about 8 bucks, you can get GM Top Engine Cleaner in a can. Pour some into each cylinder and allow it to sit overnight, then most of the carbon will wipe off. Avoid getting it on your hands, don't run the car without changing the oil after the treatment. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 19:33:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24339 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:33:25 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24335 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:33:23 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 19:36:21 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.15] by grolen.com id 9c030.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:32:06 EDT Message-ID: <372CDE77.BCA9847C@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:23:35 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: valve job question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu William T Wilson wrote: > > On Sun, 2 May 1999, Stowe, Ted-SEA wrote: > > > In my younger days when doing valve jobs for customers cars, I would clean > > off the carbon that was on top of the cylinders. I used to rotate the engine > > around and bring the pistons up to tdc and whirl away with a drill bit > > mounted wire brush. > > > Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that > important because they just come right back when the engine runs the next > time. Sounds like a tire shop I went to once. "No need to clean the mud off the wheel before we balance it. It just gets muddy again anyway." Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 19:47:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24658 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:47:43 -0400 Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24653 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:47:41 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id QAA54526; Sun, 2 May 1999 16:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 16:47:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 2 May 1999, Greg Hermann wrote: > > > >Oh, yeah. Continental has an interesting policy on parts prices. > > All true. The Argentinian Kaiser plant in Cordoba came up with some revised > rods along with the twelve port head. The car you would find such a beast > in was called a "Torino"--but not at all like a Ford by the same name. It > was based on the late sixties Rambler American body tub, but had an outer > skin done by Pinin Farina. It also had IRS, and about 8 inches of wheel > travel at each corner, and a five speed gear box which was built under > license from ZF. > > Note the rather low engine speed for the peak power on the Torino version > of the Tornado engine--this speaks to Jim's comments about the Continental > block, even with far better rods installed. Scary to think how much power > they could have made with a stronger block and crank and some more revs and > 48 mm in place of 45 mm Webers! > Continental also mfrd an inline 6 cylinder, pushrod, 12 port 7 main industrial engine. The only one I ever saw was in a Trackmobile. Delivered new with the governor not working. It never popped, and it wasnt for lack of trying. Could make it sound just like a good, strong SBC going thru the traps...If they had combined short block and cylinder heads... From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 19:47:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA24650 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:47:39 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA24646 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:47:38 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 19:50:37 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.15] by grolen.com id 9dcd0.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:46:26 EDT Message-ID: <372CE1D3.F57CC018@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 19:37:55 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs References: <01be9645$9ee88160$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howard Wilkinson wrote: > > Greg: > I've personally seen irrigation pump motors run on propane over > 10K hrs. This is a considerably different environment than a farm > truck. > It is unfortunate that the Holly, > Motorcraft, and Autolight carb familys used neoprene diaphragms in > accelerator pumps and in power valves.... they don't like today's gas > at all. There's a simple modification for Holley carbs that prevents power valve damage due to backfire, and the pump diaphragms can be replaced without complete o'haul. > Personally I feel that of the 4 bbl carbs available, the plain old > Quadrajet would have had the most potential of any of them if they had > only made replaceable secondary orfices.... once these are worn > there's nothing to be done. Around 1985 a company called "The Carburetor Shop" offered a kit designed to replace the secondary metering jets. Generally I see worn rods, not jets. Most common seems to be a "ring" worn around the rod caused by the rods "rattling" in the stainless plates that make up the jets. > I've built a puller and removed them, and Puller? I have a drill bit that I've ground to cut the aluminum carb away from the jet, then a small pick easily pulls the exposed jet. > I suppose you could manufacture a replacement, I pull the replacement jet from an unused Q jet. I buy the carbs cheap and strip them for parts. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 20:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA25208 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:06:24 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA25205 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:06:23 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas2-cs-45.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.114]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id UAA23931 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901be94f8$d9a322e0$72198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <01be9645$9ee88160$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <372CE1D3.F57CC018@grolen.com> Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 20:06:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Your saying you've had the secondary metering rod orfices go bad?. By how much?.... Never saw any worn enough that that worried me. Finding the optimum opending for the secondary air valve was the PITA for me. Well right after digging up all the metering rod hangers, and many needles. Then I built a jig for blueprinting the hangers.. Once ya got the idle jet, idle channel restrictor right then ya could play with the primary idle bypasses. Then you just had to diddle with the primary jets, and dancing needles (ecm content). Had one on a LG4 auto that ran 15.0s, and got 30+mph on the freeway. Same metering also ran 13's on a 355 (crossfire manifold sorta) Grumpy > > Quadrajet would have had the most potential of any of them if they had > > only made replaceable secondary orfices.... once these are worn > > there's nothing to be done. > Around 1985 a company called "The Carburetor Shop" offered a kit > designed to replace the secondary metering jets. Generally I see worn > rods, not jets. Most common seems to be a "ring" worn around the rod > caused by the rods "rattling" in the stainless plates that make up the > jets. > > I've built a puller and removed them, and > Puller? I have a drill bit that I've ground to cut the aluminum carb > away from the jet, then a small pick easily pulls the exposed jet. > > I suppose you could manufacture a replacement, > I pull the replacement jet from an unused Q jet. I buy the carbs > cheap and strip them for parts. > Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 21:35:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA26534 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:35:44 -0400 Received: from box1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-64.s1.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.64]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA26528 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:35:42 -0400 Received: from xephic.dynip.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by box1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id KFHJTASW; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:35:39 -0400 Message-ID: <372CFD6B.17C29251@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:35:39 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Organization: Xephic Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Low Fanglers Tech , DIYEFI Subject: Dodge Intake Construction Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Not too exciting, but I started building the plenum for my Dodge 383 stroker EFI conversion. So far, I have a plenum floor :) http://xephic.dynip.com/dodge/dodge.html --- Frederic Breitwieser Xephic Technology "Leadership in IT" Bridgeport, CT 06606 Web: http://www.xephic.dynip.com Voice: (203) 372-2707 Fax: (603) 372-1147 From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 22:26:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27297 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:26:29 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27293 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:26:27 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAQIPLRKU80000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:26:21 CDT Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 20:49:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: High economy, was Fuel injection plugs To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616801.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Van Dorne has built a CVT for the Williams F1 car that could handle -> 700 hp. Probably the same CVT. 70hp for 100,000 miles in a Subaru, or 700hp for 100 miles in a Williams. Van Doorne has used several belt-type systems over the years, but they all have sharp limits as to the amount of torque they can handle before the wear rate goes through the roof. Lear pumped a lot of money into 'traction drive' (torus and roller) variants during the 1960s, and even got a few of them installed in buses for testing. They did well, but in order to keep wear under control the elements became huge - the reason they tested them in buses was because they wouldn't *fit* in cars. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 22:26:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27304 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:26:52 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27300 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:26:51 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAQIQ5JFRK0000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 21:26:47 CDT Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:16:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Transplant To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616806.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Floating rod bearings too? Hell, no! This is a late-model motor - 1953. Uses ordinary snap-in shell bearings. Even has a distributor on a stick instead of the crab distributor driven off the cam snout. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 22:57:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA27778 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:57:03 -0400 Received: from oceanus.island.net (oceanus.island.net [199.60.19.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA27775 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:57:02 -0400 Received: from gmoore (dyn14.comox.island.net [209.52.232.24]) by oceanus.island.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/island) with SMTP id TAA10014 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 19:56:55 -0700 Message-ID: <005201be9510$ac1930e0$2ee834d1@gmoore> From: "Greg Moore" To: Subject: TPS Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 19:57:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE94D5.FD2D4560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE94D5.FD2D4560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, I just stumbled on this list. I've got a question I'm hoping someone can = answer for me. I'm converting a '59 Mercedes Unimog to multiport EFI. I've got a Ford = throttle position sensor (part # E45F-9B989 AA 4M01C) but the lugs seem = to be 90 degrees out of wack. Is there a similar sensor that would work = for me? The air door is a 65 mm Edelbrock/BBK unit intended for a '95 = Mustang V8 if that helps. Thanks everyone. Cheers, Greg "20th century 'mog" '59 Unimog ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE94D5.FD2D4560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all,
 
I just stumbled on this list. I've got a question = I'm hoping=20 someone can answer for me.
 
I'm converting a '59 Mercedes Unimog to multiport = EFI. I've=20 got a Ford throttle position sensor (part # E45F-9B989 AA 4M01C) but the = lugs=20 seem to be 90 degrees out of wack. Is there a similar sensor that would = work for=20 me? The air door is a 65 mm Edelbrock/BBK unit intended for a '95 = Mustang V8 if=20 that helps.
 
Thanks everyone.
 
Cheers, Greg  "20th century 'mog"
'59 Unimog
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01BE94D5.FD2D4560-- From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 23:06:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA27992 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:06:45 -0400 Received: from lennier.qonline.com.au (root@lennier.qonline.com.au [203.103.144.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA27989 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:06:40 -0400 Received: from mharding (queenlatifah.qonline.com.au [203.103.236.230]) by lennier.qonline.com.au (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA32730 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:11:27 +1000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990503130634.007a3c90@mail.qonline.com.au> X-Sender: mharding@mail.qonline.com.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:06:34 +1000 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Matthew Harding Subject: Re: valve job question In-Reply-To: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F469@sea-mail> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >off the carbon that was on top of the cylinders. I used to rotate the engine >around and bring the pistons up to tdc and whirl away with a drill bit >mounted wire brush. > > >nowadays I wonder if all it did was make the piston top pretty and introduce >lots of debris into the engine especially the cylinder walls, creating years >of wear in minutes. Like you i've been known to do the same thing with the drill bit mounted wire brush whilst the head is off (on my own motors), just filling in time i guess and more than anything making it look shmick for any one who comes by :P when I do I simply make sure that I have someone else holding the compressed air across the top of the piston at the same time, and rags down the adjacent cylinders. generally most of the debris gets blown away, and any that is down the gap can be blown out with the compressed air. When you rotate that piston to the bottom again, just carefully wipe up the bore with a clean rag, that will get any lingering debris. If you are really concerned, just turn the engine over by hand a couple more times, and look for any more being dropped by the piston as it goes down the bore. just my thoughts :) One thing i do think it can help with is a high compression engine pinging, because (for a short time) there is no carbon deposits to stay hot enough to ignite the fuel/air. again just my thoughts, and some observation... cya From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 23:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28372 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:20:45 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28369 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:20:43 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Sun, 02 May 1999 23:23:45 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.14] by grolen.com id ba6e0.wrk; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:19:28 EDT Message-ID: <372D13C1.BC417ADB@grolen.com> Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 23:10:57 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs References: <01be9645$9ee88160$67930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <372CE1D3.F57CC018@grolen.com> <000901be94f8$d9a322e0$72198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Plecan wrote: > > Your saying you've had the secondary metering rod orfices go bad?. > By how much?.... > Never saw any worn enough that that worried me. > Finding the optimum opending for the secondary air valve was the PITA for > me. > Well right after digging up all the metering rod hangers, and many needles. > Then I built a jig for blueprinting the hangers.. > Once ya got the idle jet, idle channel restrictor right then ya could play > with the primary idle bypasses. Then you just had to diddle with the primary > jets, and dancing needles (ecm content). > Had one on a LG4 auto that ran 15.0s, and got 30+mph on the freeway. > Same metering also ran 13's on a 355 (crossfire manifold sorta) > Grumpy The electronic Q's just aren't that common. I've only worked on a handful of them. I was told by a GM Training Center guy "just throw it out and get a Holley" when I was in college. Wish I'd known ya then, I needed something to come back with. Secondary jets... I've changed the later style to the early ones. The early ones look more like a cup than a stamped orifice. The height is a little different, I was playing around. In the beginning I had some silly notion of using replaceable jets. I've mostly seen the rods wear enough to be a problem, but I've pulled a couple orifices that were worn to an oval in a 1 ton field service truck. Lotsa fuel at WOT, looked like a diesel. Good thing I saved the drill bit. On my own stuff, I try to find a carb without the idle air bushings. These also usually have larger holes for the mixture screws. Try to simplify things a bit. Ever run into a hanger with one arm at a very different height? I've gotten a few, don't know what caused it. Each one was causing a pop from the secondary, got to be the first thing I looked for. 30 mpg, that's great. I thought I was doing well to get 18 from the 455 in the Monte. Neat thing, was 18 with 2.26 rear gear, still 18 with 3.08 gear. Runs out of cam with 3.08 though. I heard about your "carbfire" manifold. I never tried that with mine, didn't know I could remove the extra casting. Still love the crossfire setup, way underrated. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 23:50:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28975 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:50:34 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28971 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:50:32 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAQLMWNX680000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:50:27 CDT Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 21:38:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Transplant - Bearings To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616855.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Please explain the term "floating rod bearings"......... I've -> never heard it before...... The only "floating rod bearings" I've -> experienced are those which spin between the bearing and the -> rod.......... Definitely a bad deal.... forshadows doom! Back in the 1930s many engines used bearings that were cast directly onto the rod or block surfaces and machined or scraped to size. The bearing material was an alloy called Babbitt, (there were actually a number of different Babbitt alloys) and the resulting bearings were referred to as "babbitt bearings." Cast babbitt bearings were relatively time-consuming to make, so as labor prices went up they became less cost-effective. It was also found that thinner bearings could hold up to load better than thick bearings. Many engines began using "shell" or "insert" bearings - thin strips of steel with a thin layer of bearing material - Babbitt alloy, lead/silver, etc. - cast or laminated in place. These bearings were normally a tight fit in their housings; in fact, the OD of the bearing was usually slightly *larger* than the housing; the difference is called "crush" and is what keeps the bearing from spinning in the housing. These types of bearings are in common use today. Ford went to an insert bearing on the flathead, but the rod bearings were strange - they were babbitted on both sides, and floated in between the crankshaft and rod. Later they went to conventional interference fit bearings. The hot-rodders of the day claimed there was little difference between the floating and interference bearings. I've found no detailed technical information on why Ford chose to do the floating bearings instead of interference bearings, or why they changed. I suspect it had something to do with cost, as the flathead V8 was rigorously designed down to a price. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 23:50:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28985 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:50:50 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28979 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:50:48 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAQLN9QNJK0000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:50:44 CDT Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:09:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Espen's Reed Valves To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616863.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the century. The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's intake charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked like a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 23:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA28997 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:50:59 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA28994 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:50:57 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAQLNFUVSG0000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:50:53 CDT Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:20:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Flame - Not To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616866.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> cyl also. Then there's the 348/409 Chebby which has valves in head -> but no combustion cchamber cast in. Just like the 430/462 Ford, or the Mercedes 300, or... From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 23:51:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29008 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:51:05 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29004 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:51:04 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAQLNLHP3K0000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:51:00 CDT Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:28:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616867.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> There has been some recent research that indicates the best -> atomization occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the -> intake valve when the valve opens. 1) you're talking about a pretty small amount of fuel here, which is supposed to be in vaporized or fine droplet form anyway 2) that valve is hopping up and down pretty-damned-quick, even at idle. Not much chance for puddling there. 3) there's one hell of a lot of turbulence in that intake port, both from the valve's movement on and off the seat and from charge reversion during overlap, not to mention turbulence from the other cylinders on a common manifold. On an alcohol-burning Chevy in a sprint car, bogged down coming out of a corner, I could believe in fuel puddling on the back of the intake valve. In almost anything else, it's "show me" time. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Sun May 2 23:51:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA29012 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:51:08 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29009 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 23:51:06 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAQLNOJJKW0000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:51:04 CDT Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:31:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <616868.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Any time a device that restricts flow is introduced into the path of -> air and fuel, power is reduced. A pre-chamber is such a device and -> such an engine will lose efficiency compared to an open chamber -> design. A prechamber doesn't necessarily have to restrict flow. It can be *in addition* to normal flow, as was used in various Japanese automobile engines a few years ago. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 00:56:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA30218 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:56:29 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA30215 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 00:56:28 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-072.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.72]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA10408 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:56:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:03:17 -0700 Message-ID: <01be96b4$96d0d260$4f930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce: The "spreadbore" (I believe that's the term) design of the Quadrajet results in the secondarys contributing to normal driving far more than on carbs with equal primarys & secondaries. As a result a little bit of wear in these rods or orfices makes a big difference in performance. I could show you quite a number of Quadrajet carbs with visibly egged out secondary orfices.... These are 100k+ carbs, and I just throw them away and find a good one. Unfortunately I've found that the factory "rebuilts" often have this same problem. Perhaps as I deal more in pickups and trucks than in cars, the is some difference in the operating environment which accounts for the problem...... Who knows. I just know that if I have one that doesn't work, it nearly always turns out to have egged secondary jets. H.W. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 7:28 PM Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs > >Your saying you've had the secondary metering rod orfices go bad?. >By how much?.... >Never saw any worn enough that that worried me. >Finding the optimum opending for the secondary air valve was the PITA for >me. >Well right after digging up all the metering rod hangers, and many needles. >Then I built a jig for blueprinting the hangers.. >Once ya got the idle jet, idle channel restrictor right then ya could play >with the primary idle bypasses. Then you just had to diddle with the primary >jets, and dancing needles (ecm content). > Had one on a LG4 auto that ran 15.0s, and got 30+mph on the freeway. >Same metering also ran 13's on a 355 (crossfire manifold sorta) >Grumpy > > >> > Quadrajet would have had the most potential of any of them if they had >> > only made replaceable secondary orfices.... once these are worn >> > there's nothing to be done. >> Around 1985 a company called "The Carburetor Shop" offered a kit >> designed to replace the secondary metering jets. Generally I see worn >> rods, not jets. Most common seems to be a "ring" worn around the rod >> caused by the rods "rattling" in the stainless plates that make up the >> jets. >> > I've built a puller and removed them, and >> Puller? I have a drill bit that I've ground to cut the aluminum carb >> away from the jet, then a small pick easily pulls the exposed jet. >> > I suppose you could manufacture a replacement, >> I pull the replacement jet from an unused Q jet. I buy the carbs >> cheap and strip them for parts. >> Shannen > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 01:05:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA30553 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 01:05:47 -0400 Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA30550 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 01:05:46 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id WAA11418; Sun, 2 May 1999 22:05:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 22:05:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Transplant - Bearings In-Reply-To: <616855.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 2 May 1999, Dave Williams wrote: > > -> Please explain the term "floating rod bearings"......... I've > -> never heard it before...... The only "floating rod bearings" I've > -> experienced are those which spin between the bearing and the > -> rod.......... Definitely a bad deal.... forshadows doom! > > Ford went to an insert bearing on the flathead, but the rod bearings > were strange - they were babbitted on both sides, and floated in between > the crankshaft and rod. Later they went to conventional interference > fit bearings. The hot-rodders of the day claimed there was little > difference between the floating and interference bearings. I've found > no detailed technical information on why Ford chose to do the floating > bearings instead of interference bearings, or why they changed. I > suspect it had something to do with cost, as the flathead V8 was > rigorously designed down to a price. > I have run across a set of used boxed rods for a 354 Chrysler hemi that were modified to use floating rod bearings. These were used in a fueler. Ford also used this style of rod bearing in the GAA and GAF V8 tank engines. Whether they were also used in the original V-12 A/C engine I don't know. Maybe this is like the offset versus fork-and-blade con rod designs, where costs seemed to dictate the winner but there does not seem to be any documentation on tests etc. From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 02:17:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA31401 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:17:44 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA31398 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:17:43 -0400 Received: from ms01-220.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.220] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10eC2v-0004Nd-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:17:42 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990502231209.015ab820@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 23:18:06 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Ross Corrigan Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? In-Reply-To: <372CD801.133DC730@grolen.com> References: <4.1.19990502101411.01574630@istar.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 06:56 PM 5/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >Ross Corrigan wrote: > >> thanks again for all this feedback, I"m going to gather them up as a FAQ to >> post on my page eventually for us ZV8's. >> >> FWIW, their Datsun heater cores were 20+ yrs old and functioning fine when >> they first went, no quality problems their. Shannen wrote: >Ross, what kind of car is this? Mine's a 280ZX, theirs were a 240Z and a 280ZX. I ran SB Chevy (several, actually) in >a 240Z and never experienced a problem. WOT dustoff?? When do you >need WOT?? ; ) hard to tag 10's or 11's w/o WOT they found;^) I only need it long enough to prove to the passenger they can't grab that C note taped to the dash;^) Funny you say that, a camaro guy was talking about testing a certain tranny in 4th or similar at WOT and the datsun V8 guy said he couldn't stay at WOT long enought to test much of anything 'cept his nerves;^) {wide open throttle till you see God and then lift} Ross (dreaming again ) C Any pics or writeups of your Z8's?? I'm starting a collection of web info to supplement a friends webpage http://www.whit.org:80/jcaudle/ I always enjoy reading and viewing others rides to see what they've done etc, better than any car mags IMO;^) Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 02:22:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA31479 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:22:16 -0400 Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA31476 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 02:22:14 -0400 Received: from 44.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.44) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Sun, 2 May 1999 23:31:33 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 06:21:07 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <372d3edc.649036@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Its not. The back side of the intake valve under medium load can exceed 600F ( Vizard ) and this is one of the reasons that simply ceramic coating the face of the intake can drop the charge temperature 60 degrees or more. It has long been used in constant flow systems like the hilborn to greatly aid accelerations. The hot valve simply transfers its heat to the fuel. Member that the intake valve has just been exposed to 360 degrees of intense heat during combustion and exhaust by simply being in the chamber. Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 12:21:01 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: atomization enhancement At 10:10 AM 5/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >There has been some recent research that indicates the best atomization >occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the intake valve when >the valve opens. Atomization of fuel as it leaves the injector is not >terribly important. Yes, but that's not atomization, that's vaporization... and if it's caused by the exhaust hitting the puddled fuel, that means it's being blown back into the intake runner causing intake dilution and fuel distribution problems. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 07:21:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA01776 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:21:45 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA01773 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:21:44 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 03 May 1999 07:24:51 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.12] by grolen.com id 3a900.wrk; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:20:32 EDT Message-ID: <372D8481.D986B3C7@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:12:01 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: NC hybrid setup/coolant blows heater core/how to avoid? References: <4.1.19990502101411.01574630@istar.ca> <4.1.19990502231209.015ab820@istar.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ross Corrigan wrote: > > At 06:56 PM 5/2/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Ross Corrigan wrote: > > > > Any pics or writeups of your Z8's?? I'm starting a collection of web info > to supplement a friends webpage Maybe I've got some entertaining stories, but that's about it. Only other thing I've got left is the 240Z emblem from the hatchback. Had a folder full of stuff that went with the car. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 07:51:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA02166 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:51:24 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA02163 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:51:23 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 03 May 1999 07:54:31 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.12] by grolen.com id 3e430.wrk; Mon, 3 May 1999 07:50:06 EDT Message-ID: <372D8B6F.CCB1B951@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:41:35 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: 747 for timing only Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Did the BIN for the 747 ignition only setup get posted to the incoming directory? If not, can someone forward a copy to me? Thanks. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 08:02:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02534 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:02:39 -0400 Received: from mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (mail3.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02525; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:02:33 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-209-214-60-46.int.bellsouth.net [209.214.60.46]) by mail3.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA29440; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:02:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990503075822.0093ccf0@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 08:01:53 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Emulators Cc: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all, The emulator board Beta order is being sent off this morning. Files have been transferred and the Money Order will be sent here shortly. The PCB house says 3-4 weeks (Without almost doubling the price... this is standard delivery) and when I receive them, they will be shipped right out. Hopefully, everything will run smoothly, Gerber files have all they need etc... I'm a bit pre-occupied right now as my son was kidnapped on Wed, 4-28-99. I'll let everyone know when I have a ship date from the PCB house. Thanks, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 08:15:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02827 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:15:38 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02824 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:15:37 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990503121533.UTKF24126.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 05:15:33 -0700 Message-ID: <004901be955e$bb9dad90$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <008e01be9293$8529a7a0$8b9dfea9@gbclark.com> <004f01be92ab$4bdead20$4e198fd1@nacelp> <372A5640.D2D9A214@grolen.com> <372A67B8.9AA47370@arm.com> <372A9B54.FAAC8F18@grolen.com> Subject: Re: Need Fuel Injector Data Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:16:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Shannen Durphey To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 2:12 AM Subject: Re: Need Fuel Injector Data > There needs to be something to offset the forgotten birthdays, > meetings, bill payments, appointments, etc. > Thanks. > Shannen > Steve Ravet wrote: > > > > "swagaero". Why do I remember stuff like that? Not sure if the group is aware, but Steve, the founder of SwagAero died in a plane crash this last year. Apparently a partner is carrying on. > > > > --steve > > > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > > > There was a website which mentioned using Saturn parts for aircraft > > > EFI conversions. Can't quite remember the name, but I will post it > > > when I do. If you can't wait, the person who owned the site was a > > > member of this list at one time. His posts should be in the archives. > > > Shannen > > > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > > > Couple things come to mind. > > > > GM 1987 Sunbird 2.0L 4 cylinder Turbo might be close, they are P+H. > > > > www.lindertech.com that's off the top of my head but they are in gasoline > > > > Alley > > > > Indianapolis, IN. Then RC Eng in SoCal.. > > > > How much info do you have about that ecms prom calibrations?. > > > > If your point man is gone, you might need to reevaluate your posistion. > > > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > A friend of mine and I are working on an unusual project. We are adapting > > > > a > > > > > '93 Saturn ECM and two DIS modules to run a Continental O-200 aircraft > > > > > engine. The engine is 200 C.I. (3.3 L) 4 cylinder dual plug and should > > > > make > > > > > about 120 HP at about 2800 RPM. > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone supply us with the information or give us an idea of where we > > > > can > > > > > find a chart with the injector data? > > > > -- > > Steve Ravet > > sravet@arm.com > > Advanced Risc Machines, INC > > www.arm.com > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 08:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA02950 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:19:46 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02946 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:19:45 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990503121944.UUWO24126.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 05:19:44 -0700 Message-ID: <006f01be955f$516a3820$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <01be9571$0dec8500$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Subject: Re: Transplant Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:20:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Howard Wilkinson To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Transplant > Jim: > Please explain the term "floating rod bearings"......... I've > never heard it before...... The only "floating rod bearings" I've > experienced are those which spin between the bearing and the > rod.......... Definitely a bad deal.... forshadows doom! > H.W. > Some engines were MADE with spinning inserts - bearing material on both sides. Others use a loose cage rollers, with the rod being the outer race, and the crank the inner. Obviously the latter are NOT pressure lubed. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Davies > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Date: Saturday, May 01, 1999 12:24 AM > Subject: Re: Transplant > > > > > > > >On Sat, 1 May 1999, Robert Harris wrote: > > > >> Nah - some insane whacko is building a unique engine from various > scrap parts > >> and ancient hot rod ideas. When it get's finished, it will be > vaguely fordish > >> and definitely unusual and maybe not too expensive. > >> > >Floating rod bearings too? > > > > > > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 08:32:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03316 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:32:20 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03313 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:32:19 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990503123218.UYOJ24126.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 05:32:18 -0700 Message-ID: <00c401be9561$12a6cc00$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: Subject: Re: Flame - Not Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:32:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: William T Wilson To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 8:52 PM Subject: Re: Flame - Not > On Sat, 1 May 1999, Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > > >of their cars and a number of early street rods. Not only Ford used > > >flathead engines though; I've got one in a '55 Jeep, which is an inline > > >6-cylinder. > > > > I believe that they were used with the inline 4 cylinder Jeep engines, > > also. > > Some of the old 4-cylinder Jeeps were flatheads, some were OHV. As far as > I know all modern Jeep engines are OHV or OHC. Many old Jeep 4s wer "F" heads - intake in the head, exhaust in the block. > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 08:47:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA03678 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:47:23 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA03663 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:47:21 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990503124714.VDVM24126.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 05:47:14 -0700 Message-ID: <010201be9563$2913ffb0$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:47:53 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Hermann To: Sent: Sunday, May 02, 1999 1:47 AM Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs > >Greg: > > More power to you if you can accomplish that...... I happen to > >live in the real world, and deal with old fashioned Ford & GM engines > >such as the FE series and the Small block & big block GM engines. The > >comment on life expectancy is based on 20+ years of working on these > >engines. > I had a '57 Fargo with the big (264.5)flathead six. At 249,000 miles I headed from Ontario Canada to Tulsa Oklahoma. It used a quart of oil every day at 65 - 70 mph. I sold the truck about 5 years later with the same engine in it - and the guy who bought it put a 340 six-pack in so we sold the engine to another guy for his '47 dodge coupe. Ih had the head replaced once, and a valve job that I am aware of. The 264 had the forged crank. From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 09:24:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04595 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:56 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04583 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:54 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-14.ts1.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.14]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21840 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013201be9567$19ea2ce0$be01d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:09:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Wasn't one of these engines also used in the Checker Marathon before they switched to Chevy? Gary Derian In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head (individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high revver. > > > Continental also mfrd an inline 6 cylinder, pushrod, 12 port 7 main > industrial engine. The only one I ever saw was in a Trackmobile. Delivered > new with the governor not working. It never popped, and it wasnt for lack > of trying. Could make it sound just like a good, strong SBC going thru > the traps...If they had combined short block and cylinder heads... From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 09:24:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04597 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:56 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04585 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:54 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-14.ts1.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.14]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21864 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013401be9567$1b524860$be01d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <616868.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:16:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu It doesn't have to be a big restriction, and the overall benefits may outweigh the drawbacks but the combustion that takes place in the chamber is restricted from delivering pull power. You must be referring to the Honda CVCC which was a good solution to emissions at the time. My comment was mostly directed to prechamber diesels where all the fuel is injected into the prechamber. Gary Derian > > -> Any time a device that restricts flow is introduced into the path of > -> air and fuel, power is reduced. A pre-chamber is such a device and > -> such an engine will lose efficiency compared to an open chamber > -> design. > > A prechamber doesn't necessarily have to restrict flow. It can be *in > addition* to normal flow, as was used in various Japanese automobile > engines a few years ago. > > ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 09:25:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04601 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:25:00 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04586 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:54 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-14.ts1.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.14]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21857 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013301be9567$1ab39760$be01d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <616863.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:12:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu My guess is the reeds restrict flow at high rpm. Look at the size of a reed cage in a 125cc motorcycle engine. The whole cage is maybe 2 by 3 inches. The really early engines used no cam for the intake valves, just a lightly sprung poppet valve. Gary Derian > > -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of > -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought > > Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also > some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the > century. > > The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the > carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's intake > charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked like > a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 09:24:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA04596 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:56 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (members.harborcom.net [209.57.253.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04584 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:54 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-14.ts1.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.14]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21873 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <013501be9567$1be95840$be01d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <01be94ce$f838d300$44930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <024f01be94a7$3ac6a9e0$1f01d4cd@gderian> Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 08:31:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A "puddle" of fuel in this context can mean a cloud of droplets in the port. The shock wave that hits this breaks up the drops into smaller ones. Sure it gets diluted, etc. but its the best we have for now and it does work pretty well. The only way to inject atomized fuel in a short period of time is with a mechanical injection pump except maybe the stuff used in single rail diesels. Does anyone know what the single rail diesels use for pressure and injectors? One question I have is When does a SEFI system fire the injectors, during the intake stroke or some other time? Gary Derian > There has been some recent research that indicates the best atomization > occurs when the exhaust hits the puddled fuel behind the intake valve when > the valve opens. Atomization of fuel as it leaves the injector is not > terribly important. > > Gary Derian > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 10:02:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA05607 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:02:38 -0400 Received: from mercury.mv.net (root@mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA05602 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:02:36 -0400 Received: from dora (darkstar.mv.com [199.125.78.23]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with SMTP id KAA25019 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990503092903.016c9dd0@pop.mv.net> X-Sender: darkstar-ma@pop.mv.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:29:03 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: floating flatheads In-Reply-To: <372C0025.5133@pacbell.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A floating bearing is free to spin on either surface, the rod, or the crank. Both the rods and the crank are surface for this, and the bearing has load surfaces on both sides. Oiling is done with mulitple holes, and groves. At 12:35 AM 5/2/99 -0700, you wrote: >Pardon me for interrupting the spirited repartee, but what >the heck is a floating bearing, Greg? I know about inserts >and rollers, have poured and bored babbit bushes... >Piston pins "float" in rod bushes - Unless they don't. >Perhaps you are referring to dip/splash oiling schemes, as >opposed to pressure lubrication? >Anyway, would appreciate an elaboration. > >Thanks, Jack > > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 10:31:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06133 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:31:25 -0400 Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06130 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:31:23 -0400 Received: from 106.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.106) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 3 May 1999 07:43:15 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:30:46 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <372dacff.770149@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know that. For Example - the Texaco /MANN design where the fuel is injected past a sparking plug that is firing repeatedly. Gets the best of both diesel for economy and otto cause it can burn rich of stoic and great economy because it can run WOT always and no denotation. Then there is the unscavenged "blind"prechamber also known as a torch cell, which is not involved in air flow. The fuel scavenged prechamber ( the more common ) variant - which has fuel shot thru it - kinda like the spark plug injector thingee that started this thread. Its not involved in air flow. The air scavenged pre chamber ala Honda CVCC - which has a separate intake valve ( very small ) and port and runner - again not interfering with flow - Honda continued this design with a three valve head that had two intakes, one exhaust and a cvcc valve. Didn't seem to slow them down much. Didn't seem to have any negative impact on air flow or power or economy. In fact, excepting some obscure diesel designs, none of the popular pre-chambers is a device that is involved in the main air flow so they can't possible introduce a restriction into the path of fuel or air. The minor loss of theoretical peak thermal efficiency is greatly offset by the vast increase in range of combustion, quality of fuel, and faster burning. But hey - I must be a dumbshit - I only researched it extensively instead of simply anally extracting some spurious so there comment. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:31:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - -> Any time a device that restricts flow is introduced into the path of - -> air and fuel, power is reduced. A pre-chamber is such a device and - -> such an engine will lose efficiency compared to an open chamber - -> design. A prechamber doesn't necessarily have to restrict flow. It can be *in addition* to normal flow, as was used in various Japanese automobile engines a few years ago. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 10:43:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA06497 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:43:41 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA06492 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 10:43:39 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-067.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.67]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA19137 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 08:44:02 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 07:09:15 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9700$dca13860$50930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Dave: I'm not sure if you are speaking of the many "hit & Miss" type engines which used an ordinary valve with a light spring which was sucked open during the intake stroke..... I presume this is what you mean by "reed valve".....or was there some other form of reed valve used? A friend of mine has a number of these engines still in use. H.W. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Williams To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 10:24 PM Subject: Espen's Reed Valves -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first thought Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the century. The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's intake charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked like a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 11:01:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06800 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:01:24 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06797 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:01:23 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm2-101.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.101]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAB29789 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:01:45 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: injector firing rates Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:06:18 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9708$d47ac220$50930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Can anybody tell me what the max practical firing rate for most of these injectors is ..... how many time a minute or second....obviously pulse width limits this, but at minimum pulse width what are the limitations of the typical injector? H.W. From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 11:01:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06794 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:01:21 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06791 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:01:19 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm2-101.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.101]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA29664 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:01:35 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Re: valve job question Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:03:11 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9708$64f0fc80$50930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu An old trick which I will relate, but not advocate, is to run the piston down to the bottom of the cylinder, and smear grease on the cylinder wall above it. You then run the piston up and the top ring gathers the grease ahead of it on the way up. You then perform you piston cleaning chore with your wire brush while protecting the other cylinders, etc, and blow or suck the surface clean when done. Then you crank the piston back down, and the grease with any crud that found it's way down around the piston remains near the top of the hole where you can wipe it out. This is a trick many of the old timers used, and it works, but I'm sure it is not considered good form these days. H.W. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Harding To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 9:54 PM Subject: Re: valve job question >>off the carbon that was on top of the cylinders. I used to rotate the engine >>around and bring the pistons up to tdc and whirl away with a drill bit >>mounted wire brush. >> >> >>nowadays I wonder if all it did was make the piston top pretty and introduce >>lots of debris into the engine especially the cylinder walls, creating years >>of wear in minutes. > >Like you i've been known to do the same thing with the drill bit mounted >wire brush whilst the head is off (on my own motors), just filling in time >i guess and more than anything making it look shmick for any one who comes >by :P > >when I do I simply make sure that I have someone else holding the >compressed air across the top of the piston at the same time, and rags down >the adjacent cylinders. generally most of the debris gets blown away, and >any that is down the gap can be blown out with the compressed air. > >When you rotate that piston to the bottom again, just carefully wipe up the >bore with a clean rag, that will get any lingering debris. > >If you are really concerned, just turn the engine over by hand a couple >more times, and look for any more being dropped by the piston as it goes >down the bore. > >just my thoughts :) > >One thing i do think it can help with is a high compression engine pinging, >because (for a short time) there is no carbon deposits to stay hot enough >to ignite the fuel/air. > >again just my thoughts, and some observation... > >cya > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 11:01:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA06826 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:01:55 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA06823 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:01:54 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p2.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.2]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA26990 for mail_from ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:01:50 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:21 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >A "puddle" of fuel in this context can mean a cloud of droplets in the port. >The shock wave that hits this breaks up the drops into smaller ones. Sure >it gets diluted, etc. but its the best we have for now and it does work >pretty well. The only way to inject atomized fuel in a short period of time >is with a mechanical injection pump except maybe the stuff used in single >rail diesels. Or with an air boost. Does anyone know what the single rail diesels use for >pressure and injectors? The injectors are directly above the chambers, and are actuated by an extra cam lobe/rocker arm. No idea what the pressure in the injector itself goes up to when it gets actuated--but HIGH--Probably hydraulic tappet style pressures. On a Cummins PT system (Pressure/Time) the fuel rail pressure varies with engine speed/ load, as this pressure is what determines how full the injectors get before getting activated by the cam. Up to maybe 300 psi in the rail. Changing the "button" in the Cummins fuel pump changes the pressure /speed output curve of the pump, and thus changes the amount of fuel injected at full load on a Cummins. (Not all Cummins B series (pick-up) engines have PT injection. This is 855, KT, and triple nickel stuff.) On Jimmys, there is a rack the length of the head which varies injector stroke, (adjusting the lash on the injector rockers and adjusting to equalize the strokes of the injectors is the source of the term "running the rack" or "running the overhead") and the fuel rail in the head is at relatively constant pressure, maybe 150 psi?? But--again, the actual injection pressure is on up there. Regards, Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 12:06:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id MAA08516 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:06:34 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08513 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:06:33 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-228.ts5.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.1.228]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA00415 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005301be957d$888ac900$e401d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <372dacff.770149@smtp.uia.net> Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:48:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. Gary Derian > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know that. snip From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 13:06:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09794 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:06:13 -0400 Received: from smtp2.vnet.net (smtp2.vnet.net [166.82.1.32]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09791 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:06:11 -0400 Received: from q2w3e4r5 (vts-ral1-S25.vnet.net [166.82.100.35]) by smtp2.vnet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA28814 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:07:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rudi Machilek" To: Subject: RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:05:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01be9587$35376920$64015fc3@q2w3e4r5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <013201be9567$19ea2ce0$be01d4cd@gderian> Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id NAA09792 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Entire Toronado front drive assemble was also used in the GM Transmode RV. As I recall, the carburetor was a Carter Thermo-quad that was prone to warping and leaking. Would have loved an EFI set-up. We loaded them down with gas analyzers and mini lab set-ups and drove them all over the US. Pretty decent gas mileage but prone to overheating. Another great idea not engineered thoroughly. Rudi Machilek >In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head >(individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the >good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, >as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with >aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, >highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high >revver. From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 13:08:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA09857 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:08:20 -0400 Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA09852 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:08:19 -0400 Received: from oscar (oscar [131.204.46.35]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA07776 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:08:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:08:18 -0500 (CDT) From: "Gregory A. Parmer" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel injection plugs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > I'd love to see a gas engine with a 500K life in a farm truck, and > >a bcsf below .35............. With the technology people are using > >around here the service life I spoke of is realistic based on real >... > The 500K figure takes a good engine to begin with, and then some high tech > tricks and quality parts on top of that. The engine I have started out with > has a lengthy track record of running 10K hours on the heads, and 25 K > hours on the bottom end, on natural gas, at about 80% load, 2400 rpm on > well head irrigation pump applications. And that--with "farmer" I missed the beginning, but you guys are arguing for the sake of arguing now. You both know that these 2 engines/scenarios are completely non-comparable. Gasoline truck vs natural gas stationary unit. Haha. Curiosity forces me ask what type of engine is this ex pumping unit? Our LPG Olds 455 unit sings a sweet tune in that app, altho it is far from efficient with today's low pressure irrigation. The Continental flathead unit sits with a hole in the block. -greg From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 13:46:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA10805 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:46:27 -0400 Received: from mail1.cybersol.com ([207.142.110.135]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA10802 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:46:26 -0400 Received: from alfred ([207.142.175.168]) by mail1.cybersol.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57990U2200L100S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 13:45:47 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990503134509.006ba2f8@smtp.cybersol.com> X-Sender: btisdale@smtp.cybersol.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:45:09 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Injectors & harness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a Syclone or Typhoon @ my local wrecking yard....... Thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 14:25:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11815 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:25:45 -0400 Received: from benatar.snurgle.org (fluffy@c266492-a.lakwod1.co.home.com [24.1.8.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11812 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:25:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (fluffy@localhost) by benatar.snurgle.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17173 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:24:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:23:52 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: valve job question In-Reply-To: <372CDE77.BCA9847C@grolen.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 2 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that > > important because they just come right back when the engine runs the next > > time. > > Sounds like a tire shop I went to once. "No need to clean the mud off > the wheel before we balance it. It just gets muddy again anyway." Heh. No, that's different, because the carbon deposits don't affect the operation of the engine. Really. Unless there's so much of it that it causes dieseling. My suggestion is more akin to saying "no need to clean the mud off the wheel before you rotate the tires." :} From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 14:28:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA11885 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:28:34 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.sni.net (root@mailrelay.sni.net [199.117.160.129]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA11882 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:28:32 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.6] (p6.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.6]) by mailrelay.sni.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA24063 for mail_from ; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:28:30 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:29:00 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Entire Toronado front drive assemble was also used in the GM Transmode RV. >As I recall, the carburetor was a Carter Thermo-quad that was prone to >warping and leaking. And dissolving in some Pemex gasolines, at various, very inopportune times! Would have loved an EFI set-up. We loaded them down with gas analyzers and mini lab set-ups and drove them all over the US. Pretty decent gas mileage but prone to overheating. Another great idea not engineered thoroughly. Think you might have the Jeep/Continental/TORNADO 230 cid OHC I-6 engine we were talking about with the 455 Olds V-8 that was used in the TORONADO, Rudi! :-) Regards, Greg > >Rudi Machilek > >>In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head >>(individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the >>good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, >>as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with >>aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, >>highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high >>revver. From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 14:51:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA12639 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:51:12 -0400 Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12636 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:51:10 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id LAA13088 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 11:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seacon.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 3 May 1999 18:52:12 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F477@sea-mail> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: valve job question Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:50:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu hmm well these are more like burned oil deposits, actually the more WD 40 I spray on them the more I can seem to wipe them up. I will go get a can of that GM top engine cleaner. sounds like a nicer thing to do. > -----Original Message----- > From: William T Wilson [SMTP:fluffy@snurgle.org] > Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:24 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: valve job question > > On Sun, 2 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that > > > important because they just come right back when the engine runs the > next > > > time. > > > > Sounds like a tire shop I went to once. "No need to clean the mud off > > the wheel before we balance it. It just gets muddy again anyway." > > Heh. No, that's different, because the carbon deposits don't affect the > operation of the engine. Really. Unless there's so much of it that it > causes dieseling. > > My suggestion is more akin to saying "no need to clean the mud off the > wheel before you rotate the tires." > > :} From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 15:31:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13557 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:31:00 -0400 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [129.188.136.102]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13554 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:30:59 -0400 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (MOT-motgate2 1.0) with ESMTP id OAA29843 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:32:24 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from pcmail1.csg.mot.com (PCMAIL1.csg.mot.com [144.188.23.22]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with SMTP id OAA24725 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:30:58 -0500 (CDT)] Received: from pcmail.css.mot.com (telematics.css.mot.com [144.186.137.10]) by pcmail1.csg.mot.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA04168 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:30:55 -0500 Message-ID: <372DF97D.27CF1458@pcmail.css.mot.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:31:10 -0500 From: Thomas Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 1227749 References: <199905011743.NAA30013@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have a decent contact at a local boneyard (he owns it!), what vehicles should I be on the lookout for to find a 1227749 ECM? He has a large stack of ECM's, and many 80's cars. Thomas Martin From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 15:35:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13666 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:35:14 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13663 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:35:13 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-1.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.19]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA05248 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c001be959c$240fbac0$13198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990503134509.006ba2f8@smtp.cybersol.com> Subject: Re: Injectors & harness Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:35:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu All GM TPI injectors use the same connector, as well as most ford. Pep boys might even have them. True Value does, but I don't have the number Bruce > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a Syclone or Typhoon @ my local wrecking yard....... > Thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 15:35:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA13724 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:35:58 -0400 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA13718 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:35:56 -0400 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (MOT-motgate 1.0) with ESMTP id OAA10785 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:35:56 -0500 (CDT)] Received: [from pcmail1.csg.mot.com (PCMAIL1.csg.mot.com [144.188.23.22]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with SMTP id OAA27392 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:35:56 -0500 (CDT)] Received: from pcmail.css.mot.com (telematics.css.mot.com [144.186.137.10]) by pcmail1.csg.mot.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA04264 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:35:53 -0500 Message-ID: <372DFAA7.7FCFD5EA@pcmail.css.mot.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:36:07 -0500 From: Thomas Martin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Reverse Cooling? References: <199905011743.NAA30013@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Has anyone retorfitted an older V8 (non LT1) with reverse cooling? Is there any drawbacks to reverse cooling vs conventional? It is worth the mechanical rework to do? I am curious to see why GM did it on the LT1, and from what I have gathered, dropped it on the LS1. Knowing GM, there MUST have been a good reason. Thanks! Thomas Martin From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 15:50:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14335 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:50:17 -0400 Received: from vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (vcc11.vcc.bc.ca [207.102.127.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14332 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:50:16 -0400 Received: (from jimd@localhost) by vcc11.vcc.bc.ca (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) id MAA68410; Mon, 3 May 1999 12:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:50:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) In-Reply-To: <000c01be9587$35376920$64015fc3@q2w3e4r5> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 3 May 1999, Rudi Machilek wrote: > Entire Toronado front drive assemble > > >In this country--the Tornado engines Two different critters... From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 15:53:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14441 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:53:07 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14438 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:53:06 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-1.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.19]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id PAA28813 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:53:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012001be959e$a3460900$13198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <199905011743.NAA30013@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <372DFAA7.7FCFD5EA@pcmail.css.mot.com> Subject: Re: Reverse Cooling? Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:53:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Martin To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 3:36 PM Subject: Reverse Cooling? Moroso actually used to sell a kit for doing that. Trouble was it wouldn't double the HP, so was too much work. Bruce > Has anyone retorfitted an older V8 (non LT1) with reverse cooling? > > Is there any drawbacks to reverse cooling vs conventional? It is worth the > mechanical rework to do? > > I am curious to see why GM did it on the LT1, and from what I have gathered, dropped > it on the LS1. Knowing GM, there MUST have been a good reason. > > Thanks! > Thomas Martin > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 15:54:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14487 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:54:25 -0400 Received: from voyager.c-com.net (voyager.c-com.net [209.127.0.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14484 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:54:24 -0400 Received: from Todd_L (dial49.phoenix.net [205.241.121.63]) by voyager.c-com.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA21620 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:54:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <372E11B2.CD8@c-com.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:14:26 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? References: <372dacff.770149@smtp.uia.net> <005301be957d$888ac900$e401d4cd@gderian> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu http://www.interlog.com/~boni/fish/fish.html Sincerely, Todd....!! Gary Derian wrote: > > Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by > anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. > > Gary Derian > > > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know > that. > snip From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 15:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id PAA14497 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:54:35 -0400 Received: from voyager.c-com.net (voyager.c-com.net [209.127.0.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14493 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:54:34 -0400 Received: from Todd_L (dial49.phoenix.net [205.241.121.63]) by voyager.c-com.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA21681 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 14:54:33 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <372E17B0.195C@c-com.net> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 14:40:00 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors & harness References: <3.0.1.32.19990503134509.006ba2f8@smtp.cybersol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello People, My name is Todd, I'm new to the DIY FI thread, but believe this e-mail thread system is a heaven sent... What is the easiest setup to use on a 450+ cube BB from scratch... in order to put out at least what it does in it's carb'd form of 450+ HP, future plans are to twin turbo the beast.... Ya'll are WAY more experienced with this kindof stuff.. I'd like ya'lls input in this matter! Any help is SO appreciated....!! The engine is a built 440 cu in engine and I want to inject it with the most efficient system available for the least expensive price... i.e. already existing OEM parts, if possible.... Laptop programmable is probably a must.... Thanks.... Todd.... P.S. - I plan on using an EEC-IV with aftermarket injectors and throttle body because of the larger displacement and HP... What do ya'll think? Thanks again.... Barry Tisdale wrote: > > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a Syclone or Typhoon @ my local wrecking yard....... > > Thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 16:52:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id QAA15701 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:52:15 -0400 Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA15696 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 16:52:12 -0400 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti34a27-0095.dialup.online.no [130.67.69.223]) by online.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA18315 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:52:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199905032052.WAA18315@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 22:50:28 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi! I want to use a reed cage from a outboard two stroke engine or crosser bike. With carbon fiber reed pedals for minimum restriction,or boyesen reeds.There is little difference in max output from two stroke with reedvalve and rotary valve.By using a hotter cam than you would do without reeds, I think you can have more hp at max and gobs of torque down low.I would be difficult to mount the reeds as close to the valves as possible, I think a 4 valver is most suited because of the two inlet runners making a easy transition to the wide reed cage. Using a rotary file and file the two runners together and mount the reed cage as the start of the intakemanifold. Espen. > Dave: > I'm not sure if you are speaking of the many "hit & Miss" type > engines which used an ordinary valve with a light spring which was > sucked open during the intake stroke..... I presume this is what you > mean by "reed valve".....or was there some other form of reed valve > used? A friend of mine has a number of these engines still in use. > H.W. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Williams > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 10:24 PM > Subject: Espen's Reed Valves > > > > -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of > -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first > thought > > Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also > some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the > century. > > The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the > carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's > intake > charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked > like > a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 17:15:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id RAA16282 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 17:15:00 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA16279 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 17:14:59 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-1.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.19]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA20226 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 17:14:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019901be95aa$139a2280$13198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <199905032052.WAA18315@online.no> Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:15:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Espen Hilde Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves Remember how expensive internal engine parts are. If the reeds brake they can raise hell inside an engine. They are good for just a very limited range, before they "peg" open.... To get enough reed area for a "big" engine to breath thru would be a huge reed cage. Bruce > I want to use a reed cage from a outboard two stroke engine or crosser > bike. > With carbon fiber reed pedals for minimum restriction,or boyesen > reeds.There is little difference in max output from two stroke with > reedvalve and rotary valve.By using a hotter cam than you would do without > reeds, > I think you can have more hp at max and gobs of torque down low.I would be > difficult to mount the reeds as close to the valves as possible, I think a > 4 valver is most suited because of the two inlet runners making a easy > transition to the wide reed cage. Using a rotary file and file the two > runners > together and mount the reed cage as the start of the intakemanifold. > Espen. > > Dave: > > I'm not sure if you are speaking of the many "hit & Miss" type > > engines which used an ordinary valve with a light spring which was > > sucked open during the intake stroke..... I presume this is what you > > mean by "reed valve".....or was there some other form of reed valve > > used? A friend of mine has a number of these engines still in use. > > H.W. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave Williams > > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > > Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 10:24 PM > > Subject: Espen's Reed Valves > > -> cam to get variable duration and the reed valves would take care of > > -> the blowback problem at the low end...... At least a first > > thought > > Alfa Romeo built some engines like that 20 years ago. There were also > > some stationary engines using reed valves at the beginning of the > > century. > > The Alfa setup let them run a long duration cam without confusing the > > carburetor with reversion pulses or contaminating one cylinder's > > intake > > charge with another's exhaust coming through on overlap. It looked > > like > > a fine idea to me, and I have no idea why they dropped it. From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 18:19:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17278 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 18:19:01 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17275 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 18:19:00 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JARNYD0L280000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 3 May 1999 17:07:44 CDT Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 17:07:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <617187.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by -> anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. The stratified, lean-burn, and DI technologies produce higher levels of oxides of nitrogen than conventional designs. NOx is hard to deal with; there are catalytic convertors that can handle *some* NOx, but not the amounts a really fuel-efficient engine can put out. It comes down to a choice - do you want to use cheap smog control technology, or do you want maximum fuel efficiency? Note DIY isn't necessarily concerned with smog. ==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 18:41:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id SAA17798 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 18:41:15 -0400 Received: from sal.awwwsome.com (sal.awwwsome.com [206.155.34.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA17794 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 18:41:14 -0400 Received: from c9d2j6 ([206.155.34.236]) by sal.awwwsome.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34763U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA25686 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 15:40:58 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990503154050.007ca270@sal.awwwsome.com> X-Sender: darkmon@sal.awwwsome.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:40:50 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves In-Reply-To: <019901be95aa$139a2280$13198fd1@nacelp> References: <199905032052.WAA18315@online.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 05:15 PM 5/3/99 -0400, you wrote: >Remember how expensive internal engine parts are. If the reeds brake they >can raise hell inside an engine. > They are good for just a very limited range, before they "peg" open.... >To get enough reed area for a "big" engine to breath thru would be a huge >reed cage. >Bruce I see your point. Does anyone have access top a reed cage from, say, a 500cc motocrosser? That should flow enough air for the 60+ horsepower it produces. Is it too big to fit nicely into a typical intake port? Say an eight-cylinder engine, so eight times 60 = 480 horse capacity. It seems too simple to me, maybe somebody can help me out here? I understand that flow through a two-stroke engine cannot be compared directly to that of a four-stroke, but am too lazy to do the figuring and figured I'd offer this to the group as fodder... Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 19:25:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id TAA18342 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:25:18 -0400 Received: from mail.networkone.net (qmailr@mail.networkone.net [209.144.112.75]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA18338 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 19:25:13 -0400 Received: (qmail 25463 invoked from network); 3 May 1999 23:25:30 -0000 Received: from pm3-5-26.la.networkone.net (HELO 333) (209.144.125.26) by mail.networkone.net with SMTP; 3 May 1999 23:25:30 -0000 Message-ID: <01be01be95bc$46457560$1a7d90d1@333> From: "Rick" To: References: <372dacff.770149@smtp.uia.net> <005301be957d$888ac900$e401d4cd@gderian> <372E11B2.CD8@c-com.net> Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:25:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The real story behind these fishy carbs http://www.syc.org/e/dennis27.htm Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 2:14 PM Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified - FISH Carb Vault....?? > http://www.interlog.com/~boni/fish/fish.html > > Sincerely, > > Todd....!! > > Gary Derian wrote: > > > > Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by > > anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. > > > > Gary Derian > > > > > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > > > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know > > that. > > snip > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 20:16:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA18942 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:16:28 -0400 Received: from pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (pneumatic-tube.sgi.com [204.94.214.22]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA18932; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:16:18 -0400 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com (aspire.dearborn.sgi.com [169.238.139.226]) by pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via SMTP id RAA5437899; Mon, 3 May 1999 17:16:08 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) id UAA06412; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:16:06 -0400 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) id UAA57447; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:16:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9905032016.ZM255250@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 20:16:05 -0400 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: ARAP bin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu The "hot ticket" for '89 '165 chips is supposed to be the ARAP. >From one of Bruce's prior posts: arap 4194 5.7 Auto 89 Vet Anybody have an ARAP binary they could mail to me and/or upload to /incoming? Thanks! --andrew -- Andrew Gunnesch sgi, onsite at Ford Motor Company Voice: 248-848-4517 FAX: 313-441-6341 V-net: 327-4517 From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 20:40:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id UAA19365 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:40:10 -0400 Received: from mail.sltic.com (www.sltic.com [207.51.206.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA19362 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:40:09 -0400 Received: from execpc.com [208.143.28.11] by mail.sltic.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-4.02) id A413651D013E; Mon, 03 May 1999 19:49:23 CST6CDT Message-ID: <372E40D6.72AB2013@execpc.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 19:35:34 -0500 From: Chad Clendening X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Espen's Reed Valves References: <199905032052.WAA18315@online.no> <3.0.6.32.19990503154050.007ca270@sal.awwwsome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I may still have one from a 72 Evinrude 600 ( 650 ? ) cc 2 cylinder snowmobile in a bucket. If memory serves, the thing had 8 reeds and was 3 tall, 1 1/2 " wide and 2" deep, for each cylinder. I can look for it if anyone wants specifics. Chad Aaron Willis wrote: > At 05:15 PM 5/3/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Remember how expensive internal engine parts are. If the reeds brake they > >can raise hell inside an engine. > > They are good for just a very limited range, before they "peg" open.... > >To get enough reed area for a "big" engine to breath thru would be a huge > >reed cage. > >Bruce > > I see your point. Does anyone have access top a reed cage from, say, a > 500cc motocrosser? That should flow enough air for the 60+ horsepower it > produces. Is it too big to fit nicely into a typical intake port? Say an > eight-cylinder engine, so eight times 60 = 480 horse capacity. It seems > too simple to me, maybe somebody can help me out here? > I understand that flow through a two-stroke engine cannot be compared > directly to that of a four-stroke, but am too lazy to do the figuring and > figured I'd offer this to the group as fodder... > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 21:00:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA19757 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:00:08 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f185.hotmail.com [209.185.131.248]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA19754 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:00:07 -0400 Received: (qmail 49774 invoked by uid 0); 4 May 1999 00:59:36 -0000 Message-ID: <19990504005936.49773.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.246.130.80 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 03 May 1999 17:59:36 PDT X-Originating-IP: [204.246.130.80] From: "David Sagers" To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: CFM Questions Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 17:59:36 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone know how to calculate CFM rates? I was talking to the shop that's building the turbo set up for my chevy engine. He said that at 15 lbs of boost each runner on a stock TPI will flow 600 cfm. I think the stock runners are 1.25" But 600 cfm sounds really high for such a small tube, even at 15 lbs of boost. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 21:23:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20108 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:23:10 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20105 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:23:08 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 03 May 1999 21:26:27 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id aabb1.wrk; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:21:54 EDT Message-ID: <372E49B1.CA19B85A@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 21:13:21 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Transplant References: <01be9571$0dec8500$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <006f01be955f$516a3820$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CLsnyder wrote: > > > Some engines were MADE with spinning inserts - bearing material on both > sides. Others use a loose cage rollers, with the rod being the outer race, > and the crank the inner. Obviously the latter are NOT pressure lubed. What engines used roller bearings? What applications? Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 21:34:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA20355 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:34:55 -0400 Received: from scotty.nni.com (scotty.nni.com [216.107.0.100]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA20352 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:34:54 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME ([216.107.10.151]) by scotty.nni.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-57102U15000L10000S0V35) with SMTP id com for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 21:34:48 -0400 Message-ID: <372E64AC.EED@nni.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 20:08:28 -0700 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: 747 for timing only References: <372D8B6F.CCB1B951@grolen.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu No, I haven't put it up there yet. I've been busy again, something about finding a job. Did you know that there are people out there, that insist on finding you a job? The nerve of some folks! Really does cut into the free time . I've been playing around with the aldl list, trying to have the timing values output. I think I've got it, but it's raining today. I promise that I'll get it there soon, I need to clean-up the bin by removing the fueling changes that aren't being used. BobR. P.S> Shannen, I'm sending a copy of what I have... I'll post when the final hit's incoming. Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Did the BIN for the 747 ignition only setup get posted to the incoming > directory? If not, can someone forward a copy to me? > Thanks. > Shannen From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 22:12:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA20966 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:12:15 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA20963 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:12:13 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 03 May 1999 22:15:33 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.13] by grolen.com id b15d0.wrk; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:10:58 EDT Message-ID: <372E5530.62E8589A@grolen.com> Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 22:02:24 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors & harness References: <3.0.1.32.19990503134509.006ba2f8@smtp.cybersol.com> <00c001be959c$240fbac0$13198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Wait, there's a catch. If this has the same injector as used in the later 4.3l Vortech engine, it's got a different connector. Barry, if the injector looks like a bug and is buried in the center of a large, 2 piece manifold you can find similar parts in Astrovans and S-10s with the VIN W engine. Shannen Bruce Plecan wrote: > > All GM TPI injectors use the same connector, as well as most ford. > Pep boys might even have them. > True Value does, but I don't have the number > Bruce > > > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC > port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use > these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a > Syclone or Typhoon @ my local wrecking yard....... > > Thanks - Barry From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 23:01:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA21756 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:01:20 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA21753 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:01:19 -0400 Received: from nacelp (dark-cas1-cs-1.dial.bright.net [209.143.25.19]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id XAA21702 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <031201be95da$736d3aa0$13198fd1@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990503134509.006ba2f8@smtp.cybersol.com> <00c001be959c$240fbac0$13198fd1@nacelp> <372E5530.62E8589A@grolen.com> Subject: Re: Injectors & harness Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 23:01:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Shannen Durphey To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:02 PM Subject: Re: Injectors & harness The injectors I just bought out of a sy really look like the ones I put in the Buick GN fuel rails. Bruce > Wait, there's a catch. If this has the same injector as used in the > later 4.3l Vortech engine, it's got a different connector. > Barry, if the injector looks like a bug and is buried in the center of > a large, 2 piece manifold you can find similar parts in Astrovans and > S-10s with the VIN W engine. > Shannen > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > All GM TPI injectors use the same connector, as well as most ford. > > Pep boys might even have them. > > True Value does, but I don't have the number > > Bruce > > > > > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 GMC > > port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle use > > these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a > > Syclone or Typhoon @ my local wrecking yard....... > > > Thanks - Barry > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 23:19:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22144 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:19:58 -0400 Received: from phobos.talarian.com (mailhost.talarian.com [207.5.32.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22137 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:19:56 -0400 Received: from tegu (tegu.talarian.com [207.5.32.96]) by phobos.talarian.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA15518 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:19:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "James Montebello" To: Subject: RE: Transplant Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 20:17:21 -0700 Message-ID: <003001be95dc$a043bc50$602005cf@tegu.talarian.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <372E49B1.CA19B85A@grolen.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > What engines used roller bearings? What applications? > Shannen A great many engines use roller bearings. The bottom ends of most two-stroke engines are all roller bearings. A good many four-stroke motorcycle engines have also been made using rolling-element bottom ends. Harleys use them, most four-stroke singles, and quite a few large displacement fours made by Suzuki and Kawasaki used rollers. Even on engines with plain main and big end bearings, rollers are typically used at the ends of the crankshaft, and in the gearboxes. Porsche made a few racing engines that used roller bearing bottom ends in the '50s, and '60s. In all cases, the crankshafts are multiple pieces pressed together around the bearings and one-piece rods. For very high-stress operation, these bits would be welded together. If the crank needed to be rebuilt, the weld was ground off, and the parts pressed apart. Most of these engines are not low power applications, either. The two-stroke GP machines made today produce in excess of 400hp/liter unsupercharged. The big roller bearing Suzuki and Kawasaki engines are very popular in drag-bike applications. james montebello From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 23:53:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22643 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:53:09 -0400 Received: from svn.net (thergen@svn1.svn.net [167.160.200.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22639 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:53:08 -0400 From: thergen@svn.net Received: from localhost (thergen@localhost) by svn.net (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA09478 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:52:32 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 20:52:32 -0700 (PDT) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors & harness In-Reply-To: <031201be95da$736d3aa0$13198fd1@nacelp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu My '92 6 cyl vortec 4.3 (vin W) has a single CPI injector (Central Port Injector as describe in the factory service manual). It is a single injector with six flexible tubes coming off and special nozzles at the end that maintain pressure in in the tubes when the injector not flowing. The nozzles have plastic clips that hold them into holes at the end of each intake runner. I thought the Syclone (vin Z?) actually had 6 injectors. Anyways, the CPI does inject at the port, but I haven't heard it called a TPI injector. Tom On Mon, 3 May 1999, Bruce Plecan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Shannen Durphey > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:02 PM > Subject: Re: Injectors & harness > > The injectors I just bought out of a sy really look like the ones I put in > the Buick GN fuel rails. > Bruce > > > Wait, there's a catch. If this has the same injector as used in the > > later 4.3l Vortech engine, it's got a different connector. > > Barry, if the injector looks like a bug and is buried in the center of > > a large, 2 piece manifold you can find similar parts in Astrovans and > > S-10s with the VIN W engine. > > Shannen > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > All GM TPI injectors use the same connector, as well as most ford. > > > Pep boys might even have them. > > > True Value does, but I don't have the number > > > Bruce > > > > > > > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 > GMC > > > port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle > use > > > these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a > > > Syclone or Typhoon @ my local wrecking yard....... > > > > Thanks - Barry > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 23:56:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22696 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:56:06 -0400 Received: from smtp.thegrid.net (smtp.thegrid.net [209.162.1.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA22693 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:56:05 -0400 Received: (qmail 3366 invoked from network); 4 May 1999 03:56:03 -0000 Received: from pop.thegrid.net (209.162.1.5) by smtp.thegrid.net with SMTP; 4 May 1999 03:56:03 -0000 Received: from al (oak-ts1-h1-48-94.ispmodems.net [209.162.48.94]) by pop.thegrid.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA13437; Mon, 3 May 1999 20:56:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990503210456.009cdc70@mail.thegrid.net> X-Sender: i857176@mail.thegrid.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 21:05:46 -0700 To: "Marc van der Vossen" , efi@cardozo.org, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Al Lipper Subject: ECU7 EFI project plans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Marc, it is good to hear of your interest, as well as your experience with th 80C552. It sounds like you've done some nice work with it. At the present time, we have a relatively final version of the ECU7 schematic (newer than the one on the web), as well as a completed PC board layout. Unfortunately, it is expensive to have a small quantity of PC boards made (close to $500), so I've been unable to move ahead until I can either find a cheaper way to have them made, or find enough people to split the cost. I'm planning to post the most recent version of ECU7 to the web, as soon as I can get some more web space. The schematic and PCB were done with OrCAD 386+, so if you have compatible software, I'd be happy to e-mail you the original source files. We've been looking for someone with 80C552 experience for a while, so hearing from you is very fortuitous. Even better, it sounds like you've already done some of what we need. The first thing is the writing of a .HEX loader that will allow an intel .HEX file received over the serial port to be loaded into the 5v flash memory. The second thing is for the old assembly routines (EFI02.ASM) that worked on ECU6, running on the Intel 80C51GB to be converted to use the 552. The 80C51GB used PCA's where the 552 has its own capture/compare timers. Also, the A/D converter read routines need adaptation. It's really a rather simple file, and hopefully the documentation is clear. Once we can get one of these built and working, I expect progress can be swift. Thanks for all of your help, Marc - it's good to have you on the project. Al efi@cardozo.org At 09:57 PM 5/3/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi All, > >With interest I read your page about your DIY-EFI. I was reading the >revision 7 files and noticed you will be using the 80C552. Although I do not >think these are best for EFI, I do think they will work well. I have made my >own 80C552 board and it has some nice features. Like flash programming (on >board), downloading .HEX files to the board for execution (without burning >them in flash). I am very interested in EFI and have quite some knowledge in >assembler programming the 80C552. I would be very interested in cooperating >with you. If you are also interested, can you please mail me back with the >status of revision 7 and a short to-do list ? > >Thanks in advance and keep up the good work > >Marc >marc@vdvossen.nl > > > From diy_efi-owner Mon May 3 23:59:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id XAA22806 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:59:58 -0400 Received: from mbox.ualr.edu (mbox.ualr.edu [144.167.10.38]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22803 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:59:57 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V5.1-12 #24705) id <01JAS09XWXVK0000HN@UALR.EDU> for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:59:54 CDT Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 22:51:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Transplant To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-id: <617359.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -> What engines used roller bearings? What applications? Bugatti - all the straight eights were ball and roller bearing Alfa Romeo - many of the prewar engines Lots of airplanes and motorcycles From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 00:04:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA23011 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:04:35 -0400 Received: from missouri.mcn.net (root@missouri.mcn.net [204.212.170.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA23007 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:04:34 -0400 Received: from owlymcn.net.mcn.net (pm1-077.bigtimber.mcn.net [207.12.147.77]) by missouri.mcn.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA19227 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 22:04:57 -0600 (MDT) From: "Howard Wilkinson" To: Subject: Fish Carb.... not dead yet? Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:07:24 -0700 Message-ID: <01be9775$f2c1af60$4a930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A friend of mine used to own one of the original fish carbs, and I've had it apart and examined it. It was tried on a number of vehicles, and the results were uniformly dissapointing..... and not for lack of trying. I personally put the fish in the same category as the Borke engine and many other wonderful technologies over the years that didn't work......... An old friend of mine tells of having all sorts of gas savers, magnets on gas lines, etc on his car, but of having to remove them due to the inconvenience of having to stop every 50 miles or so and siphon off surplus gas....... If you believe that one, I've got some land in Florida you might be interested in ;-) H.W. From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 00:08:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA23167 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:08:22 -0400 Received: from mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (mail1.lig.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.55]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA23164 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:08:21 -0400 Received: from n5xmt (host-216-76-183-55.int.bellsouth.net [216.76.183.55]) by mail1.lig.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA15995 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990504000555.00945100@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 00:08:01 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Injectors & harness In-Reply-To: References: <031201be95da$736d3aa0$13198fd1@nacelp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:52 PM 5/3/99 -0700, you wrote: >My '92 6 cyl vortec 4.3 (vin W) has a single CPI injector (Central Port >Injector as describe in the factory service manual). It is a single >injector with six flexible tubes coming off and special nozzles at the end >that maintain pressure in in the tubes when the injector not flowing. The >nozzles have plastic clips that hold them into holes at the end of each >intake runner. > >I thought the Syclone (vin Z?) actually had 6 injectors. > It does >Anyways, the CPI does inject at the port, but I haven't heard it called a >TPI injector. > The TPI just means tuned port injection... CPI is actually TPI, as the CPI manifold is tuned for specific torque peaks at 2 different RPM instead of just one...Air door closed (low RPM) and one with it open (high RPM). =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 00:58:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id AAA23881 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:58:35 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA23878 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:58:33 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 04 May 1999 01:01:55 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.12] by grolen.com id 7290.wrk; Tue, 4 May 1999 00:57:18 EDT Message-ID: <372E7C2C.821B555C@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 00:48:44 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors & harness References: <3.0.1.32.19990503134509.006ba2f8@smtp.cybersol.com> <00c001be959c$240fbac0$13198fd1@nacelp> <372E5530.62E8589A@grolen.com> <031201be95da$736d3aa0$13198fd1@nacelp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ok. Then the 4.3W and the Syclone don't share injectors. The W engine has one injector connected to 6 poppet nozzles, each through a hose. Looks a little like a deformed spider. Shannen Bruce Plecan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Shannen Durphey > To: > Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:02 PM > Subject: Re: Injectors & harness > > The injectors I just bought out of a sy really look like the ones I put in > the Buick GN fuel rails. > Bruce > > > Wait, there's a catch. If this has the same injector as used in the > > later 4.3l Vortech engine, it's got a different connector. > > Barry, if the injector looks like a bug and is buried in the center of > > a large, 2 piece manifold you can find similar parts in Astrovans and > > S-10s with the VIN W engine. > > Shannen > > > > Bruce Plecan wrote: > > > > > > All GM TPI injectors use the same connector, as well as most ford. > > > Pep boys might even have them. > > > True Value does, but I don't have the number > > > Bruce > > > > > > > I'm looking for a couple of injectors & connectors from a Syclone ('91 > GMC > > > port injected 4.3) for setting up a test rig. Does any other vehicle > use > > > these port injectors & matching connectors? I'm not likely to find a > > > Syclone or Typhoon @ my local wrecking yard....... > > > > Thanks - Barry > > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 01:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id BAA24357 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 01:13:04 -0400 Received: from uia.net (uia.net [157.22.213.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA24354 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 01:13:01 -0400 Received: from 95.GST.ONT.cyberg8t.com (207.67.188.95) by uia.net with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.2); Mon, 3 May 1999 22:13:03 -0700 From: bob@bobthecomputerguy.com (Robert Harris) To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Fish Carbs Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 05:12:26 GMT Organization: Bob - the Computer Guy Message-ID: <372e805e.639806@smtp.uia.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Same reason as the valve in block L head "Flat Head" reigned supreme for 40 odd years. Just because it is very good doesn't make it cheap - and to the vast majority of the automotive purchasers cheap is the only virtue. Never confuse good with cheap - or you will buy Compak Packard Bell Hewlett Packard Gateway Cyrix and AMD etc. Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:48:36 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. Gary Derian > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know that. snip -- From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 02:09:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25188 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 02:09:29 -0400 Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25184 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 02:09:27 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id XAA24546 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seacon.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 4 May 1999 06:10:28 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F4AA@sea-mail> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: fuel line check valve reality check Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 23:08:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu howdy. I am trying to find 2 'flapper' type, low threshold, fuel check valves for my 72 xj6, my thought is to tie both fuel tanks together with a one way valve in each line, then have that go to a 'T' then to the chev mechanical pump. (I have a Chevy eng in it and I want to remove the old original electric fuel pumps & related mess in the trunk.) an email to Earl's got me a $50.00 price per valve, not including the fittings. I called another place and got a price of $195.00 for a single electric shut off valve, (I briefly thought of using 2 of them). this is a low-tech daily driver, why are one way check valves & stuff so expensive ?? yikes ! is there some plain old ford/chev, one way check valve someplace ? thanks, Ted. From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 02:15:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25321 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 02:15:04 -0400 Received: from sal.awwwsome.com (sal.awwwsome.com [206.155.34.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25317 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 02:15:02 -0400 Received: from c9d2j6 ([206.155.34.224]) by sal.awwwsome.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-34763U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA3420 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 23:14:46 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990503231450.007c7390@sal.awwwsome.com> X-Sender: darkmon@sal.awwwsome.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 23:14:50 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Aaron Willis Subject: OT max economy, engine stress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have been trying the "floor-it-in-high" driving technique for a tank or two, and results appear promising, so far. My question for y'all is whether I ought to be concerned with what I have always been told is very hard on an engine - asking it to do a lot of work at very low RPM. My car doesn't really "like" to be lugged below about 2000 RPM, depending on load. It shakes and shudders if I load it down to heavily, although it does continue to pull. Am I beating the bottom end out of the engine? Also curious about heating the fuel to improve economy. Worth half a damn? Any words of encouragement or caution? Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 02:31:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id CAA25675 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 02:31:19 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id CAA25672 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 02:31:18 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 04 May 1999 02:34:42 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.12] by grolen.com id 13c10.wrk; Tue, 4 May 1999 02:30:02 EDT Message-ID: <372E91E6.C20A3094@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 02:21:26 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fish Carb.... not dead yet? References: <01be9775$f2c1af60$4a930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Howard Wilkinson wrote: > > A friend of mine used to own one of the original fish carbs, and I've > had it apart and examined it. It was tried on a number of vehicles, > and the results were uniformly dissapointing..... and not for lack of > trying. I personally put the fish in the same category as the Borke > engine and many other wonderful technologies over the years that > didn't work......... An old friend of mine tells of having all sorts > of gas savers, magnets on gas lines, etc on his car, but of having to > remove them due to the inconvenience of having to stop every 50 miles > or so and siphon off surplus gas....... If you believe that one, > I've got some land in Florida you might be interested in ;-) H.W. You'd have better luck selling ocean front property in MT. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 03:05:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id DAA26257 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 03:05:45 -0400 Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au (digger1.defence.gov.au [203.5.217.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA26254; Tue, 4 May 1999 03:05:39 -0400 Received: from dsto-ms2.dsto.defence.gov.au (dsto-ms2.defence.gov.au [131.185.2.150]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA27437; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:34:43 +0930 (CST) Received: from exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au (unverified [131.185.2.94]) by dsto-ms2.dsto.defence.gov.au (Integralis SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 04 May 1999 16:35:08 +0930 Received: by exchsa1.dsto.defence.gov.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 4 May 1999 16:35:27 +0930 Message-Id: From: "Jackson, Trevor" To: "'gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" , diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: 305 TPI and 808 ECM Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 16:35:30 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm currently trying to help a friend get a 305 TPI engine running, but without much success so far. I believe that the engine is from an 87 or 88 Camero auto (bought from a wrecked car), the wiring loom is from a manual Camero, and the ECM we have is from the Australian Holden Commodore (which from what I've read from the archives is the 1227808). I understand that the '808 ecm is more or less equivalent to the '165 ecm, and so we should be able to use it OK. The problem we have is with the Memcals. We have the Memcal that came with the ecm, which is a ASBX 9285 from the 307 engine that is used in the Commodores, and a Memcal from (we think) a 89 Camero with a 305 TPI (EPROM AGYM 3493). As yet we have been able to get the engine running using the 89 Camero Memcal, but it does run (not very well though) using the Memcal from the Commodore. We think that the Memcal from the 89 Camero is not working because we do not have a VATS signal to send to the ecm - I plan to build the circuit to emulate that so that we can see if that is the problem. If this is the problem, is the program/data from the AGYM 3493 EPROM suitable for this engine, or do I need to get hold of a different EPROM image and program up another EPROM? BTW, can anyone tell me what is the correct EPROM image for an 87/88 305 TPI engine? I've only just discovered these mailing lists and am slowly making my way through the archives. There is a mountain of info there - I just need to find the relevant pieces. regards Trevor Jackson From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 04:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id EAA27467 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 04:39:35 -0400 Received: from benatar.snurgle.org (fluffy@c266492-a.lakwod1.co.home.com [24.1.8.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA27464 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 04:39:33 -0400 Received: from localhost (fluffy@localhost) by benatar.snurgle.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA18536 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 04:38:46 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 04:38:46 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OT max economy, engine stress In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990503231450.007c7390@sal.awwwsome.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 3 May 1999, Aaron Willis wrote: > My question for y'all is whether I ought to be concerned with > what I have always been told is very hard on an engine - asking it to > do a lot of work at very low RPM. My car doesn't really "like" to be > lugged below about 2000 RPM, depending on load. It shakes and > shudders if I load it down to heavily, although it does continue to > pull. If your engine is shuddering, you should downshift. Some engines (most diesels, GM Lx1 series V8) will pull like mad more or less from idle. It really takes an effort to lug these engines. Fortunately, the Trans Am and, I think, Camaro of recent years have an "engine lugging solenoid" which forces you to shift into fourth gear at about 20-25 mph. :} The 3-cylinder engine in my Geo Metro has the world's strangest torque curve, and doesn't mind being lugged at all. For a small engine, this is highly unusual, IMO. Nevertheless, it's ready to go at 1500 RPM. This is, I'm sure, part of why it gets 45-50 MPG. :} > Am I beating the bottom end out of the engine? Well, you aren't doing it any good. Just don't lug the engine. It serves no purpose and, although most modern engines will put up with it (and a variety of other abuses) without too much complaint, you accomplish nothing by doing it, so don't. > Also curious about heating the fuel to improve economy. Worth > half a damn? Any words of encouragement or caution? Useless on fuel injected engine, IMO. May obtain some benefit on setup where fuel is vaporized. Fuel injection system atomizes fuel and hot fuel will do nothing except (marginally) increase risk of detonation. From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 05:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28105 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 05:37:56 -0400 Received: from qatar.net.qa (qatar.net.qa [194.133.33.11]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28101 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 05:37:52 -0400 Received: from abberdeen (Bay2bd.qatar.net.qa [206.82.133.44]) by qatar.net.qa (8.8.8/Internet-Qatar) with SMTP id MAA04604 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 12:36:16 +0300 (GMT) Message-ID: <006901be9611$21ead0c0$15b385c2@abberdeen> From: "Tom Bennett" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: Pintle Caps Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:25:56 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All, I have just received some new seals and caps for my Bosch injectors #0 280 150 164, The question is, the original Pintle cap has a slightly smaller hole than the new one, original stamped #3 new one #2. Is this going to be a major problem if I use the new ones? regards Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 05:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id FAA28183 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 05:44:57 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA28180 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 05:44:56 -0400 From: xxalexx@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id EAA26846 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 04:44:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199905040944.EAA26846@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Received: from nyf-ny1-32.ix.netcom.com(198.211.16.32) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma026842; Tue May 4 04:44:49 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:32:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: alternative engines X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Univ. of Alabamba is working on a anti-gravity car. Says could be ready within 10 yrs. Will not need fuel injection or conventional fuel as we know it. There is a photo of a car airborne, but did not say if prototype. article in this issue of Discover Magazine. alex From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 07:09:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA29249 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:09:04 -0400 Received: from mailgw01.execpc.com (sendmail@mailgw01.execpc.com [169.207.2.78]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29246 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:09:02 -0400 Received: from zurlo (planetx-1-147.mdm.mkt.execpc.com [169.207.142.149]) by mailgw01.execpc.com (8.9.1) id GAA18256 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:09:00 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990504060958.0083ea90@mail.execpc.com> X-Sender: zurlo@mail.execpc.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 06:09:58 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Jim Zurlo Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified In-Reply-To: <372dacff.770149@smtp.uia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Almost all large (>6 liters/cylinder) lean burn natural gas engines are stratified charge. They have a prechamber where fuel only is admitted. The spark plug is located in the prechamber. This allows the engine to run much leaner (lambda = 2) than an open chamber engine. For a given lambda stratified charge does produce more NOx, but the prechamber allows the engine to be run leaner where NOx emissions are lower. Prechamber engines have the best efficiency, topping out around 43% thermal efficiency now. For the ultimate in low NOx emissions nothing beats a stoichiometric engine with a three way converter. There has been a renewed interest in direct injection gasoline engines recently for improved fuel econonmy. The only sticking point is reducing the exhaust NOx emissions with a lean NOx catalyst. Lot's of people are working on that and there are solutions (Selective Catalytic Reduction) but they are really expensive and require a source of ammonia. Not something you want to carry around in a vehicle. Jim Zurlo zurlo@execpc.com At 02:30 PM 5/3/99 GMT, you wrote: >Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge >design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know that. > >For Example - the Texaco /MANN design where the fuel is injected past a >sparking plug that is firing repeatedly. Gets the best of both diesel for >economy and otto cause it can burn rich of stoic and great economy because it >can run WOT always and no denotation. > >Then there is the unscavenged "blind"prechamber also known as a torch cell, >which is not involved in air flow. > >The fuel scavenged prechamber ( the more common ) variant - which has fuel >shot thru it - kinda like the spark plug injector thingee that started this >thread. Its not involved in air flow. > >The air scavenged pre chamber ala Honda CVCC - which has a separate intake >valve ( very small ) and port and runner - again not interfering with flow - >Honda continued this design with a three valve head that had two intakes, one >exhaust and a cvcc valve. Didn't seem to slow them down much. Didn't seem to >have any negative impact on air flow or power or economy. > >In fact, excepting some obscure diesel designs, none of the popular >pre-chambers is a device that is involved in the main air flow so they can't >possible introduce a restriction into the path of fuel or air. > >The minor loss of theoretical peak thermal efficiency is greatly offset by the >vast increase in range of combustion, quality of fuel, and faster burning. > >But hey - I must be a dumbshit - I only researched it extensively instead of >simply anally extracting some spurious so there comment. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 22:31:00 -0500 >From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) >Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified > >- -> Any time a device that restricts flow is introduced into the path of >- -> air and fuel, power is reduced. A pre-chamber is such a device and >- -> such an engine will lose efficiency compared to an open chamber >- -> design. > > A prechamber doesn't necessarily have to restrict flow. It can be *in >addition* to normal flow, as was used in various Japanese automobile >engines a few years ago. > >==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us====================================== >I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? >my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? >=================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm > > > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 07:24:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA29436 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:27 -0400 Received: from box1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-114.s51.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29433 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:25 -0400 Received: from xephic.dynip.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by box1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id KFHJTBLY; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:21 -0400 Message-ID: <372ED8E5.9E9DA778@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 07:24:21 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Organization: Xephic Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ECU7 EFI project plans References: <4.1.19990503210456.009cdc70@mail.thegrid.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Unfortunately, it is expensive to have a small quantity of PC boards made > (close to $500), so I've been unable to move ahead until I can either find If your design calls for a single sided or double sided PC board, there is a product I saw at a tradeshow a year or two ago that you can plot your board using a special tonor to contact paper, then rub the pcboard onto the copper clad board, then etch. I'll see if I can find the brochure and get more information... I had saved it because it would facilitate my being able to make one-offs. Since you posted the pcboard routes on the ftp site... it might be a cheesy way of one making their own boards. I'll see what I can dig up. --- Frederic Breitwieser Xephic Technology "Leadership in IT" Bridgeport, CT 06606 Web: http://www.xephic.dynip.com Voice: (203) 372-2707 Fax: (603) 372-1147 From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 07:50:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA29755 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:50:52 -0400 Received: from mercury.mv.net (root@mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29752 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:50:50 -0400 Received: from dora (darkstar.mv.com [199.125.78.23]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with SMTP id HAA01332 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:50:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990504072517.016e2480@pop.mv.net> X-Sender: darkstar-ma@pop.mv.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 07:25:17 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: Transplant In-Reply-To: <372E49B1.CA19B85A@grolen.com> References: <01be9571$0dec8500$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <006f01be955f$516a3820$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu There were (aftermarket) roller bearings available for VW air cooled engines (probably still are). At 09:13 PM 5/3/99 -0400, you wrote: >CLsnyder wrote: > >> > >> Some engines were MADE with spinning inserts - bearing material on both >> sides. Others use a loose cage rollers, with the rod being the outer race, >> and the crank the inner. Obviously the latter are NOT pressure lubed. >What engines used roller bearings? What applications? >Shannen > > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 07:54:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id HAA29881 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:54:14 -0400 Received: from mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA29878 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:54:13 -0400 From: jweir@att.net Received: from webmail.worldnet.att.net ([135.145.254.78]) by mtiwmhc01.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990504115413.FGSB9014@webmail.worldnet.att.net> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:54:13 +0000 Received: from [204.34.247.254] by webmail.worldnet.att.net; Tue, 04 May 1999 11:54:07 +0000 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fish Carbs Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 11:54:07 +0000 X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Apr 10 1999) X-Authenticated-Sender: jweir@att.net Message-Id: <19990504115413.FGSB9014@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Ahh this might be a great time to bring up the triangle of truisms GOOD ^ / \ / \ / \ ------- CHEAP EASY when any too are true the third must be false. Jason -- 88 Wrangler - 155K miles and counting 258 I6, 4.0 head, Cherokee header, 2 1/2 exhaust with high flow cat & Flowmaster GM TBI, Crane 260H Cam TJ Fender Flares http://home.att.net/~jweir CNC 4X4 Member - http://cnc.4x4.org/ > Same reason as the valve in block L head "Flat Head" reigned supreme for 40 > odd years. Just because it is very good doesn't make it cheap - and to the > vast majority of the automotive purchasers cheap is the only virtue. Never > confuse good with cheap - or you will buy Compak Packard Bell Hewlett Packard > Gateway Cyrix and AMD etc. > > > Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:48:36 -0400 > From: "Gary Derian" > Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified > > Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by > anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. > > Gary Derian > > > > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know > that. > snip > > -- From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 08:24:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA30381 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:24:50 -0400 Received: from box1.xephic.dynip.com (207-172-226-114.s51.as1.brp.ct.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.226.114]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30378 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:24:48 -0400 Received: from xephic.dynip.com (p03-41.stamford.dialin.ntplx.com [204.213.186.141]) by box1.xephic.dynip.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id KFHJTBML; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:24:44 -0400 Message-ID: <372EE80A.E6DADBEF@xephic.dynip.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 08:28:58 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Organization: Xephic Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fish Carbs References: <19990504115413.FGSB9014@webmail.worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > GOOD > ^ > / \ > / \ > / \ > ------- > CHEAP EASY Good one Jason... good one. I wonder how my twin-turbo 431 efi stroker fits into this... unreliable ^ / \ / \ ----- expensive complex ROFL -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 08:24:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA30376 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:24:39 -0400 Received: from firewall8.cummins.com (firewall-user@[205.230.25.51]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30372 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:24:35 -0400 Received: by firewall8.cummins.com; id HAA02262; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from unknown(143.222.15.21) by firewall8.cummins.com via smap (4.1) id xma002244; Tue, 4 May 99 07:24:26 -0500 Received: from blitzen.eeg.cummins.com by ceco1.cummins.com (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) id AA26711; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:25 -0500 Received: from prancer.eeg.cummins.com by blitzen.eeg.cummins.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id HAA05558; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from cummins.com by prancer.eeg.cummins.com (8.8.8+Sun/SMI-SVR4) id HAA10114; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:24:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <372EE6F8.1CAB965D@cummins.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 07:24:24 -0500 From: Matt S Bower X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mime-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Reverse Cooling? References: <199905011743.NAA30013@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <372DFAA7.7FCFD5EA@pcmail.css.mot.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu GM went to it earlier than the LT1. If you look at late 80's IROC's TA's and vettes they should all be reverse flowed. The reason as I can recall was something to do with trying to control the head temps for emmisions. They were able to get around the need with the LS1 engine and went back to the standard flow which I believe keeps the whole system at a more uniform temp. Bottom line still is that the gains weren't high enough for anyone else to fool with it. Thomas Martin wrote: > > Has anyone retorfitted an older V8 (non LT1) with reverse cooling? > > Is there any drawbacks to reverse cooling vs conventional? It is worth the > mechanical rework to do? > > I am curious to see why GM did it on the LT1, and from what I have gathered, dropped > it on the LS1. Knowing GM, there MUST have been a good reason. > > Thanks! > Thomas Martin From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 08:38:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA30528 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:38:29 -0400 Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web136.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.12]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA30525 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:38:27 -0400 Message-ID: <19990504124105.14455.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [136.1.1.18] by web136.yahoomail.com; Tue, 04 May 1999 05:41:05 PDT Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:41:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Roy Subject: Re: atomization enhancement To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Hi all The Bosch single rail system being introduced on diesels uses a mechanical pump to generate a fuel rail pressure of around 1800 bar. The injectors are triggered like petrol injection injectors by a signal from the ECU. --- Greg Hermann wrote: > >A "puddle" of fuel in this context can mean a cloud > of droplets in the port. > >The shock wave that hits this breaks up the drops > into smaller ones. Sure > >it gets diluted, etc. but its the best we have for > now and it does work > >pretty well. The only way to inject atomized fuel > in a short period of time > >is with a mechanical injection pump except maybe > the stuff used in single > >rail diesels. > > Or with an air boost. > > Does anyone know what the single rail diesels use > for > >pressure and injectors? > > The injectors are directly above the chambers, and > are actuated by an extra > cam lobe/rocker arm. No idea what the pressure in > the injector itself goes > up to when it gets actuated--but HIGH--Probably > hydraulic tappet style > pressures. On a Cummins PT system (Pressure/Time) > the fuel rail pressure > varies with engine speed/ load, as this pressure is > what determines how > full the injectors get before getting activated by > the cam. Up to maybe 300 > psi in the rail. Changing the "button" in the > Cummins fuel pump changes the > pressure /speed output curve of the pump, and thus > changes the amount of > fuel injected at full load on a Cummins. (Not all > Cummins B series > (pick-up) engines have PT injection. This is 855, > KT, and triple nickel > stuff.) > > On Jimmys, there is a rack the length of the head > which varies injector > stroke, (adjusting the lash on the injector rockers > and adjusting to > equalize the strokes of the injectors is the source > of the term "running > the rack" or "running the overhead") and the fuel > rail in the head is at > relatively constant pressure, maybe 150 psi?? > But--again, the actual > injection pressure is on up there. > > Regards, Greg > > > > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 08:56:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id IAA30877 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:56:29 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30874 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:56:28 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990504125626.DJBC15282.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 05:56:26 -0700 Message-ID: <000701be962d$9aaa2850$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <013201be9567$19ea2ce0$be01d4cd@gderian> Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:57:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Derian To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) > Wasn't one of these engines also used in the Checker Marathon before they > switched to Chevy? > No, Checker used Continental flat heads, and an overhead valve version of the same engine before switching to Chevy (1964). A few Chrysler engines were also used. > Gary Derian > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:02:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31021 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:02:54 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31017 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:02:52 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990504130251.DMEI15282.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:02:51 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01be962e$80208730$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <372dacff.770149@smtp.uia.net> <005301be957d$888ac900$e401d4cd@gderian> Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:03:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Derian To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Direct Injection - Stratified > Gee Robert, if all these engines are so good, why aren't they used by > anyone? Maybe they are in the same vault with the Fish carburetor. > > Gary Derian > > > > Contrary to public myth, there actually is more than one stratified charge > > design - but then anyone who was not blindly prejudiced would have know > that. > snip > Can anybody spell COST? As long as the bean-counters and stock prices have more to say about automotive design than the engineers they will not see the light of day. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:07:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31189 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:46 -0400 Received: from ihemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [192.11.222.161]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31185 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:45 -0400 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com (h135-5-45-7.lucent.com [135.5.45.7]) by ihemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14355 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA05899; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:36 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA05896; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:07:35 -0400 Message-ID: <372EF198.D9D1B513@lucent.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:09:44 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: CFM Questions References: <19990504005936.49773.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Dave, Flow is measured for a given pressure drop across the runner. I really can't imagine that this means a 600cfm flow with a 15 psi pressure drop. Who would ever spec a runner with that much drop. What is the pressure differential that creates a 600cfm flow through the tube. Then can you live with that much pressure drop? Ken David Sagers wrote: > > Anyone know how to calculate CFM rates? I was talking to the shop that's > building the turbo set up for my chevy engine. He said that at 15 lbs of > boost each runner on a stock TPI will flow 600 cfm. I think the stock > runners are 1.25" But 600 cfm sounds really high for such a small tube, > even at 15 lbs of boost. > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:09:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31262 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:09:42 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31258 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:09:41 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990504130938.DPOL15282.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:09:38 -0700 Message-ID: <002501be962f$73144490$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <000c01be9587$35376920$64015fc3@q2w3e4r5> Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:10:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Rudi Machilek To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 1:05 PM Subject: RE: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) > Entire Toronado front drive assemble was also used in the GM Transmode RV. As I recall, the carburetor was a Carter Thermo-quad that was prone to warping and leaking. Would have loved an EFI set-up. We loaded them down with gas analyzers and mini lab set-ups and drove them all over the US. Pretty decent gas mileage but prone to overheating. Another great idea not engineered thoroughly. TOTALLY different engine you are speaking of here Rudy. The TORNADO was a Willys engine - used in the Jeeps. The Buick V6 engine used in the Jeepster was also branded a TORNADO for a few years. The TORONADO was the Olds monster. > > Rudi Machilek > > >In this country--the Tornado engines only came with an eight port head > >(individual exhausts, but two logged intakes), and obviously without the > >good rods. It came in early sixties Gladiator pick-ups and Wagoneers. And, > >as one might expect for a hemi head with a short duration cam with > >aggressive valve lift rates, it got rather good mileage--about 17.5 mpg, > >highway--- in a well tuned 4x4 Gladiator. But--no, it was not a high > >revver. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:10:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31294 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:10:17 -0400 Received: from ihemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [192.11.222.161]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31290 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:10:16 -0400 Received: from pace10.wh.lucent.com (h135-5-45-7.lucent.com [135.5.45.7]) by ihemlsrv.firewall.lucent.com (Pro-8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16104 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA06059; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:10:08 -0400 Received: from lucent.com by pace10.wh.lucent.com (SMI-8.6/EMS-1.4.1 sol2) id JAA06056; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:10:07 -0400 Message-ID: <372EF230.845B00E0@lucent.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:12:16 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Organization: Lucent Technologies X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-EMS-1.4 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Transplant References: <01be9571$0dec8500$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <006f01be955f$516a3820$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> <372E49B1.CA19B85A@grolen.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Most 60's outboard engines used roller bearings, the 2 cycle versions probably still do. In a 2 cycle engine they are common because the lubrication (oiling) is only from the Fuel mix. Ken Shannen Durphey wrote: > > CLsnyder wrote: > > > > > > Some engines were MADE with spinning inserts - bearing material on both > > sides. Others use a loose cage rollers, with the rod being the outer race, > > and the crank the inner. Obviously the latter are NOT pressure lubed. > What engines used roller bearings? What applications? > Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:17:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA31521 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:17:48 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA31518 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:17:46 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990504131745.DTSF15282.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:17:45 -0700 Message-ID: <003501be9630$94f8c300$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: Subject: Re: valve job question Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:18:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: William T Wilson To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 2:23 PM Subject: Re: valve job question > On Sun, 2 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that > > > important because they just come right back when the engine runs the next > > > time. > > > > Sounds like a tire shop I went to once. "No need to clean the mud off > > the wheel before we balance it. It just gets muddy again anyway." > > Heh. No, that's different, because the carbon deposits don't affect the > operation of the engine. Really. Unless there's so much of it that it > causes dieseling. > > My suggestion is more akin to saying "no need to clean the mud off the > wheel before you rotate the tires." > Actually, carbon deposits CAN affect engine running. Compression ratio is increased, making the engine more prone to detonation. If the cabon starts to flake you get hot spots, making the engine more prone to detonation. Soft carbon absorbs some fuel, causing cold low-speed driveability problems and causing engines to fail sniffer tests. Coating the cyl wall with grease before bringing the piston to TDC for decarbonizing was standard procedure - along with washing the cyl walls and rings down with ATF any time a head was removed to remove ALL traces of glycol from the rings before re-assembly. Glycol on the rings can cause an oil consumption problem on an otherwise OK engine very quickly. 25 years as an auto mechanic - a good number of rebuilds, valve jobs, and decarbs under my belt. Never a problem with ring / cyl damage. > :} > > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:44:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32095 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:44:58 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32092 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:44:57 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990504134455.EHNE15282.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:44:55 -0700 Message-ID: <007101be9634$607e7a80$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <01be9571$0dec8500$43930ccf@owlymcn.net.mcn.net> <006f01be955f$516a3820$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> <372E49B1.CA19B85A@grolen.com> Subject: Re: Transplant Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:45:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Shannen Durphey To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 9:13 PM Subject: Re: Transplant > CLsnyder wrote: > > > > > > Some engines were MADE with spinning inserts - bearing material on both > > sides. Others use a loose cage rollers, with the rod being the outer race, > > and the crank the inner. Obviously the latter are NOT pressure lubed. > What engines used roller bearings? What applications? > Shannen > MOST 2 strokers use roller bearings, and some obscure 4 strokes - I believe a few high speed Euro motorcycle engines. A few OLD splash lubed engines also used them. From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:47:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32145 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:47:54 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32140 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:47:52 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990504134751.EJCE15282.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:47:51 -0700 Message-ID: <008501be9634$c961d3d0$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <003001be95dc$a043bc50$602005cf@tegu.talarian.com> Subject: Re: Transplant Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:48:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: James Montebello To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:17 PM Subject: RE: Transplant > > What engines used roller bearings? What applications? > > Shannen > > A great many engines use roller bearings. The bottom ends > of most two-stroke engines are all roller bearings. > SNIPP > In all cases, the crankshafts are multiple pieces pressed > together around the bearings and one-piece rods. For very > high-stress operation, these bits would be welded together. > If the crank needed to be rebuilt, the weld was ground off, > and the parts pressed apart. > No, not all. OMC uses an automotive style crank with split caps and rollers. > Most of these engines are not low power applications, either. > The two-stroke GP machines made today produce in excess of > 400hp/liter unsupercharged. The big roller bearing Suzuki > and Kawasaki engines are very popular in drag-bike applications. > > james montebello > > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:52:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32242 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:52:24 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc1.on.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com [24.2.9.66]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32238 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:52:23 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail v4.00.03 201-229-104) with SMTP id <19990504135222.ELKB15282.mail.rdc1.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 06:52:22 -0700 Message-ID: <009d01be9635$6adcf050$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "CLsnyder" To: References: <372e805e.639806@smtp.uia.net> Subject: Re: Fish Carbs Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:52:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Harris To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 1:12 AM Subject: Fish Carbs > Same reason as the valve in block L head "Flat Head" reigned supreme for 40 > odd years. Just because it is very good doesn't make it cheap - and to the > vast majority of the automotive purchasers cheap is the only virtue. Never > confuse good with cheap - or you will buy Compak Packard Bell Hewlett Packard > Gateway Cyrix and AMD etc. > > Sounds like the "voice of experience" speaking!! Like I always say, "If you want first quality oats, you have to pay first quality price. If, on the other hand, you wish to settle for oats that have already been through the horse, they come a bit cheaper" From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32281 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:53:01 -0400 Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32276 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:53:00 -0400 From: AL8001@aol.com Received: from AL8001@aol.com (8045) by imo11.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id jPWDa13119 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:51:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:51:35 EDT Subject: Inside the 99 Chrysler 300M ECM/TCM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 2.5 for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For a upcoming project, I've purchased a 99 Chrysler 300M V6 3.5L engine/trans/computer. At some point in the future I would like to alter the speed limiter/rev limiter and possibly some other items. For general information I will post some of the major chips in the ECM and the Trans controll module. All of these numbers have shown up on the www.jjsurface.com web site, even though they don't show up on the chips manufacturers site. JJ surface states they will sell in quanities of 1 to 1,000,000. Perhaps they could help with other automotive chips. Engine Module PN 04606840AP It also has a serial number, wonder if it's also imbeded in the flash chip? Potted in clear/amber silicone. Device purpose Memory PN M28F220-90M3 Brand ST ( www.st.com) Package SO44 4M Flash memory, soldered to the board Device purpose Unknown PN 4745389 Brand ST Package Rectangular, pins on all sides ~ 18 pin X ~26 pin Shows up on the www.jjsurface.com site, but not on www.st.com Device Purpose CPU PN SC435409MFC16 (Copyright Chrysler 95) Brand Motorola Package Square, pins on all sides ~110 total Shows up on the www.jjsurface.com site but not on the search.motorola.com site Device Purpose Unknown PN 04812391AB Chry Corp97 H9833BRJN Brand H in a square, Harris ( www.semi.harris.com) Package Rectangular 28 pin surface mount It's listed on the JJ Surface site but not on the Harris site. Dosn't seem to be knock sensing, the KS IC on the Harris site has 20 pins. Harris seems to have a good automotive area http://www.semi.harris.com/auto/index.htm Trans Computer PN 04606936AD It also has a serial number, wonder if it's also imbeded in the flash chip? Potted in clear/amber silicone. Device purpose Memory PN M28F102-150XK3 Brand ST Package Square, pins on all sides PN says it is a PLCC44 package, but it is a soldered surface mount. I'll post more info as it becomes available. Harold From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 09:59:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA32447 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:59:09 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA32443 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:59:08 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 04 May 1999 10:01:36 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.11] by grolen.com id 4f3a0.wrk; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:57:52 EDT Message-ID: <372EFADD.5BCD62F7@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:49:17 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: valve job question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu William T Wilson wrote: > > On Sun, 2 May 1999, Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > Cleaning the carbon deposits off of the piston isn't really all that > > > important because they just come right back when the engine runs the next > > > time. > > > > Sounds like a tire shop I went to once. "No need to clean the mud off > > the wheel before we balance it. It just gets muddy again anyway." > > Heh. No, that's different, because the carbon deposits don't affect the > operation of the engine. Really. Unless there's so much of it that it > causes dieseling. > > My suggestion is more akin to saying "no need to clean the mud off the > wheel before you rotate the tires." > > :} WHAT??? Carbon doesn't affect engine operation??? Where, pray tell, did you get that information? If you're sending an aluminum head out for a valve job, typically the gasket surface gets planed in the process. Now you leave the carbon on the pistons, knowing full well it wasn't dieseling before the head job. The head comes back with slightly smaller chambers and nice tight valves, and you bolt it on and go. If the engine's a high compression, late model type (like a Geo Metro at 13:1), there's a good chance you'll burn the exhaust valves the first time you head out on the highway. But it won't diesel. But hey, the engine this original question was about is a small block Chevy. Pretty durable, probably 8.5:1 compression, iron heads. No problems there, right? But maybe there's a bunch of carbon built up on numbers 6 and 8 cylinders from worn guides. So ya take the car out with your nice, tight valves, and get on it 'cause you know it's got more power. There's some rattling, not too much, probably just too much timing advance. So you play with the timing, get on it some more, play with the timing, but you end up with your total advance pretty low and not as much power as you expected. But it doesn't diesel, it's only two cylinders, and they're only showing problems at higher RPM, so the carbon can't be causing it. Must be, oh, a mystery. Sure the carbon comes back when you run the engine. But what you see during a tear down is an accumulation over a large period of time and after a fair amount of wear. Putting an engine back together like that is asking for trouble, and I would consider it a sign of laziness knowing how easily carbon buildup can be removed. Shannen From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:04:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA32514 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:04:48 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA32511 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:04:47 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.3] (p3.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.3]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA09546 for mail_from ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:04:43 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:05:16 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: atomization enhancement Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Scuse me-- Perhaps I misunderstood what was meant by a single rail system--the Jimmy's--a mid 1930's design-- hardly had an ecu! Greg >> Hi all > > The Bosch single rail system being introduced on >diesels uses a mechanical pump to generate a fuel >rail pressure of around 1800 bar. The injectors are >triggered like petrol injection injectors by a >signal from the ECU. > >--- Greg Hermann wrote: >> >A "puddle" of fuel in this context can mean a cloud >> of droplets in the port. >> >The shock wave that hits this breaks up the drops >> into smaller ones. Sure >> >it gets diluted, etc. but its the best we have for >> now and it does work >> >pretty well. The only way to inject atomized fuel >> in a short period of time >> >is with a mechanical injection pump except maybe >> the stuff used in single >> >rail diesels. >> >> Or with an air boost. >> >> Does anyone know what the single rail diesels use >> for >> >pressure and injectors? >> >> The injectors are directly above the chambers, and >> are actuated by an extra >> cam lobe/rocker arm. No idea what the pressure in >> the injector itself goes >> up to when it gets actuated--but HIGH--Probably >> hydraulic tappet style >> pressures. On a Cummins PT system (Pressure/Time) >> the fuel rail pressure >> varies with engine speed/ load, as this pressure is >> what determines how >> full the injectors get before getting activated by >> the cam. Up to maybe 300 >> psi in the rail. Changing the "button" in the >> Cummins fuel pump changes the >> pressure /speed output curve of the pump, and thus >> changes the amount of >> fuel injected at full load on a Cummins. (Not all >> Cummins B series >> (pick-up) engines have PT injection. This is 855, >> KT, and triple nickel >> stuff.) >> >> On Jimmys, there is a rack the length of the head >> which varies injector >> stroke, (adjusting the lash on the injector rockers >> and adjusting to >> equalize the strokes of the injectors is the source >> of the term "running >> the rack" or "running the overhead") and the fuel >> rail in the head is at >> relatively constant pressure, maybe 150 psi?? >> But--again, the actual >> injection pressure is on up there. >> >> Regards, Greg >> >> >> >> >> > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:17:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00373 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:17:33 -0400 Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00370 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:17:31 -0400 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com (532) by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id jIWSa20910 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3fe48fd7.24605b44@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:16:36 EDT Subject: Re: fuel line check valve reality check To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL NetMail v1.0 sub 7 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 5/4/99, 2:13:32 AM, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu writes: <> The SII and SIII XJ6 uses valves that are both one-way and electric shut-off. I think they are $30 - $40 a piece new, and of course if you can find one in a junk yard that would be even better. They are located in the rear wheel well, next to the gas tank, and behind a shield. I think they are probably exactly what you need since you will still be able to maintain the ability to switch between tanks. I have tried to simplify the system in my SII but have found there is no way around using the electric valves. Otherwise you have problems with one tank emptying before the other and introducing air into the gas line. Ted From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00416 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:19:46 -0400 Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00413 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:19:45 -0400 Received: from mihmp ([152.11.20.200]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAA9FD for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:20:26 -0400 Message-ID: <002401be9638$ec353ec0$c8140b98@mihmp.agfa.bayer.com> From: "David A. Cooley" To: Subject: Re: Inside the 99 Chrysler 300M ECM/TCM Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:18:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Engine Module >PN 04606840AP >It also has a serial number, wonder if it's also imbeded in the flash chip? Yes it is... > >Device purpose Memory >PN M28F220-90M3 >Brand ST ( www.st.com) >Package SO44 >4M Flash memory, soldered to the board > >Device purpose Unknown >PN 4745389 >Brand ST >Package Rectangular, pins on all sides ~ 18 pin X ~26 pin >Shows up on the www.jjsurface.com site, but not on www.st.com > >Device Purpose CPU >PN SC435409MFC16 (Copyright Chrysler 95) >Brand Motorola >Package Square, pins on all sides ~110 total >Shows up on the www.jjsurface.com site but not on the search.motorola.com > site > Sounds like the MC68HC16... there are a few variants, one or two of which include OBD_II J1850 messaging capabilities >Device Purpose Unknown >PN 04812391AB Chry Corp97 > H9833BRJN >Brand H in a square, Harris ( www.semi.harris.com) >Package Rectangular 28 pin surface mount >It's listed on the JJ Surface site but not on the Harris site. Dosn't seem to >be knock sensing, the KS IC on the Harris site has 20 pins. Harris seems >to have a good automotive area >http://www.semi.harris.com/auto/index.htm This could also be a J1850 controller... HIP7030 series From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:21:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00477 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:21:08 -0400 Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00473 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:21:06 -0400 From: Tedscj@aol.com Received: from Tedscj@aol.com (14425) by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20) id jBKYa17022 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:19:55 EDT Subject: Re: Re: Transplant To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL NetMail v1.0 sub 7 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 5/4/99, 9:51:47 AM, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu writes: <> I think '50s Prsche high performance engine with the OHC used them (Carrera?). From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:26:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00674 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:26:54 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00670 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:26:53 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 04 May 1999 10:29:22 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.11] by grolen.com id 53320.wrk; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:25:36 EDT Message-ID: <372F015D.7774B810@grolen.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 10:17:01 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Reverse Cooling? References: <199905011743.NAA30013@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <372DFAA7.7FCFD5EA@pcmail.css.mot.com> <372EE6F8.1CAB965D@cummins.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Matt S Bower wrote: > > GM went to it earlier than the LT1. If you look at late 80's IROC's > TA's and vettes they should all be reverse flowed. Nope. Not reverse flow. Only rev. flow V8s were LT1 and LT4 engines. Waterpump rotation was reverse of Vee belt models, but coolant flow was in block, out manifold like previous years. > The reason as I can > recall was something to do with trying to control the head temps for > emmisions. Reduces head temps allowing higher compression without detonation. Same effect can be achieved with ceramic coatings. >They were able to get around the need with the LS1 engine > and went back to the standard flow which I believe keeps the whole > system at a more uniform temp. Bottom line still is that the gains > weren't high enough for anyone else to fool with it. > > Thomas Martin wrote: > > > > Has anyone retorfitted an older V8 (non LT1) with reverse cooling? > > > > Is there any drawbacks to reverse cooling vs conventional? It is worth the > > mechanical rework to do? > > > > I am curious to see why GM did it on the LT1, and from what I have gathered, dropped > > it on the LS1. Knowing GM, there MUST have been a good reason. Who really knows GM? Shannen > > > > Thanks! > > Thomas Martin From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:34:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA00936 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:34:50 -0400 Received: from rio.com (rio.com [206.96.130.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA00933 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:34:48 -0400 Received: from soren (ppp46.t0.rio.com [208.137.120.46]) by rio.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA26193 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 07:28:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004401be963b$072d51c0$34010e0a@soren> From: "soren" To: Subject: Re: alternative engines Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:33:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Univ. of Alabamba is working on a anti-gravity car. >Says could be ready within 10 yrs. That's what they have been saying about fusion power for the last 30 years or so.... Soren From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:40:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01114 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:40:04 -0400 Received: from problem.problem.org (gateway.problem.org [209.47.148.176] (may be forged)) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01111 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:40:02 -0400 Received: by problem.problem.org (Smail3.2.0.104 #1) id m10egMQ-00006YC; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:39:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Subject: Re: Fish Carbs To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:39:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" In-Reply-To: <372EE80A.E6DADBEF@xephic.dynip.com> from "Frederic Breitwieser" at May 4, 99 08:28:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > GOOD > > ^ > > / \ > > / \ > > / \ > > ------- > > CHEAP EASY > > Good one Jason... good one. I wonder how my twin-turbo 431 efi > stroker fits into this... > > unreliable > ^ > / \ > / \ > ----- > expensive complex > I think this is developing into a graphical representation of the Fangle Quotient. See the 2 dimensional representation of the 4 dimensional FQ quantification below. w Fangle-O-Meter Graphic Representation easy cheap | practical \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / \ | / unreliable--------------|--------------------good / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ / | \ useless | difficult expensive | You will notice that we have 4 axis, which represent the major properties of good Fanglage. As we move in the positive direction on each axis we have the desirable properties of good Fanglage, and as we move in the other direction we have the undesirable properties, many government projects seem to end up in this region, "The Black Hole of Resources", whether intentionally or otherwise. The scales are limitless and measured in the following units: The u-g scale in Yugo-Rollses with 0 being approximately 1 Chevy. The e-c scale in money with 0 being a budget the average Fangler could afford, ie. cheaper than a mobile home in Ohio. The d-e scale in SHM-CDB (shade tree howls-can do blindfolded) with 0 requiring a moderate amount of attention, but no use of "magic words" or tools of destruction, ie. replacing a bolt on carburator setup, or adjusting valve lash. The u-p scale in GE-ME (government employees-mechanical engineers) with 0 being 1 7-11 night clerk. Can now give meaningful fanglage co-ordinates to all ouf our projects. As an example, Fred's EFI-383 project would come in about at Toyota, VCR, 4 SHMs, Marine Mechanic. Totally understandable units, that explain the workings of the projects in Fangler's terms. Clive Clive From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:46:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01198 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:22 -0400 Received: from voyager.c-com.net (voyager.c-com.net [209.127.0.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01195 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:21 -0400 Received: from Todd_L (dial8.phoenix.net [205.241.121.22]) by voyager.c-com.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23840 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:46:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <372F1967.2E6E@c-com.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 08:59:35 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: CFM Questions References: <19990504005936.49773.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Can't help ya with the CFM Calc Formula, sorry, However, a Stock 426 Hemi only flows between 300-400 cfm per runner and it was supposed to outflow ANYTHING... Good luck with your project... Do you have a web site which details your build up? ALSO, is it a single or dual turbo setup? Thanks! Todd....!! ---------- David Sagers wrote: > > Anyone know how to calculate CFM rates? I was talking to the shop that's > building the turbo set up for my chevy engine. He said that at 15 lbs of > boost each runner on a stock TPI will flow 600 cfm. I think the stock > runners are 1.25" But 600 cfm sounds really high for such a small tube, > even at 15 lbs of boost. > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:46:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01204 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:28 -0400 Received: from voyager.c-com.net (voyager.c-com.net [209.127.0.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01201 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:46:27 -0400 Received: from Todd_L (dial8.phoenix.net [205.241.121.22]) by voyager.c-com.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA23874 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:46:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <372F1BC3.7F50@c-com.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:09:39 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Transplant References: <003001be95dc$a043bc50$602005cf@tegu.talarian.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu COOL DEAL! Thanks for sharing that info, haven't ever heard/read about stock roller bearing apps! Only Hig Dollar Race setups!! Good to know! LATER! Todd....!! ---------- James Montebello wrote: > > > What engines used roller bearings? What applications? > > Shannen > > A great many engines use roller bearings. The bottom ends > of most two-stroke engines are all roller bearings. > > A good many four-stroke motorcycle engines have also been made > using rolling-element bottom ends. Harleys use them, most > four-stroke singles, and quite a few large displacement fours > made by Suzuki and Kawasaki used rollers. Even on engines > with plain main and big end bearings, rollers are typically > used at the ends of the crankshaft, and in the gearboxes. > > Porsche made a few racing engines that used roller bearing > bottom ends in the '50s, and '60s. > > In all cases, the crankshafts are multiple pieces pressed > together around the bearings and one-piece rods. For very > high-stress operation, these bits would be welded together. > If the crank needed to be rebuilt, the weld was ground off, > and the parts pressed apart. > > Most of these engines are not low power applications, either. > The two-stroke GP machines made today produce in excess of > 400hp/liter unsupercharged. The big roller bearing Suzuki > and Kawasaki engines are very popular in drag-bike applications. > > james montebello From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:51:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01385 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:51:14 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01381 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:51:11 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.11] (p11.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.11]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA11948 for mail_from ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:51:09 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:51:41 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >----- Original Message ----- >From: Gary Derian >To: >Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 8:09 AM >Subject: Re: Flame - Not (Tornado engine?) > > >> Wasn't one of these engines also used in the Checker Marathon before they >> switched to Chevy? >> >No, Checker used Continental flat heads, and an overhead valve version of >the same engine before switching to Chevy (1964). A few Chrysler engines >were also used. >> Gary Derian >> I think that's exactly what he was saying--but that the Continental they used was a LOT stronger than the 6-226 that Jeep used. 7 mains, forged crank, etc. Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:55:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01505 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:55:43 -0400 Received: from firewall.ceco.com (firewall-user@firewall.ceco.com [198.29.253.130]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA01502 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:55:41 -0400 From: Don.F.Broadus@ucm.com Received: by firewall.ceco.com; id JAA18145; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:55:39 -0500 Received: from cccntcon51.ceco.com(130.197.125.204) by firewall.ceco.com via smap (V4.2) id xma018047; Tue, 4 May 99 09:55:34 -0500 Received: by cccntcon51.ceco.com.197.130.IN-ADDR.ARPA with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:56:14 -0500 Message-ID: <6D07A7DEF8E8D21182700080D8701070391B47@cccntxch51.ceco.com> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: Reverse Cooling? Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 09:54:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Another benefit of the reverse cooling was the dual thermostat setup that reduced the thermal shock to the engine during warm up. As far as I can tell the late LT1 is the only reverse cooled SBC. The reverse cooled engines had different block castings and water pumps and intake manifolds. > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt S Bower [SMTP:m.s.bower@cummins.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 7:24 AM > To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Reverse Cooling? > > GM went to it earlier than the LT1. If you look at late 80's IROC's > TA's and vettes they should all be reverse flowed. The reason as I can > recall was something to do with trying to control the head temps for > emmisions. They were able to get around the need with the LS1 engine > and went back to the standard flow which I believe keeps the whole > system at a more uniform temp. Bottom line still is that the gains > weren't high enough for anyone else to fool with it. > > Thomas Martin wrote: > > > > Has anyone retorfitted an older V8 (non LT1) with reverse cooling? > > > > Is there any drawbacks to reverse cooling vs conventional? It is worth > the > > mechanical rework to do? > > > > I am curious to see why GM did it on the LT1, and from what I have > gathered, dropped > > it on the LS1. Knowing GM, there MUST have been a good reason. > > > > Thanks! > > Thomas Martin From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 10:58:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA01570 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:58:03 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA01565 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:58:01 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.11] (p11.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.11]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12313 for mail_from ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:57:58 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:58:30 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Transplant Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >----- Original Message ----- >From: Shannen Durphey >To: >Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 9:13 PM >Subject: Re: Transplant > > >> CLsnyder wrote: >> >> > > >> > Some engines were MADE with spinning inserts - bearing material on both >> > sides. Others use a loose cage rollers, with the rod being the outer >race, >> > and the crank the inner. Obviously the latter are NOT pressure lubed. >> What engines used roller bearings? What applications? >> Shannen >> >MOST 2 strokers use roller bearings, and some obscure 4 strokes - Porsche 2 liter carrera 4. I believe >a few high speed Euro motorcycle engines. A few OLD splash lubed engines >also used them. From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 11:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01632 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:01:15 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01629 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:01:12 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.8]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id LAA17690 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002501be963f$06b3b820$08633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <004401be963b$072d51c0$34010e0a@soren> Subject: Re: alternative engines Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:01:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: alternative engines Ex-Wife had anti-gravity Broom 10+ years ago. Grumpy (Pardon, lack of efi content) > >Univ. of Alabamba is working on a anti-gravity car. > >Says could be ready within 10 yrs. > > > That's what they have been saying about fusion power for the last 30 > years or so.... > > Soren > From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 11:01:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01639 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:01:26 -0400 Received: from voyager.c-com.net (voyager.c-com.net [209.127.0.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01635 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:01:25 -0400 Received: from Todd_L (dial8.phoenix.net [205.241.121.22]) by voyager.c-com.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA28412 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:01:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <372F2483.E36@c-com.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:46:59 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OT max economy, engine stress References: <3.0.6.32.19990503231450.007c7390@sal.awwwsome.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Prob with putting high load on engine with low rpm is that the oil pressure is usually lower at lower rpm's thus smaller film of oil between crank and main journal bearings and rod and rod bearings and cam and cam bearings and rockers and rocker pedestals, etc... More chance for metal to metal contact....thus more chance for scuffing/scarring of metal and more chance for spinning bearings.... Heating the fuel DOES atomize the fuel better, however the hotter the mixture the less dense the mixture as well, it's a trade off and there's definitely a point at whcih heating the micture for atomization is detrimental to combustion. Also predetonation is more achievable at higher inlet temps, as I'm sure you already know... Later! Todd....!! ----------- Aaron Willis wrote: > > I have been trying the "floor-it-in-high" driving technique for a tank or > two, and results appear promising, so far. > My question for y'all is whether I ought to be concerned with what I have > always been told is very hard on an engine - asking it to do a lot of work > at very low RPM. My car doesn't really "like" to be lugged below about > 2000 RPM, depending on load. It shakes and shudders if I load it down to > heavily, although it does continue to pull. > Am I beating the bottom end out of the engine? > > Also curious about heating the fuel to improve economy. Worth half a > damn? Any words of encouragement or caution? > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 11:03:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01754 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:03:41 -0400 Received: from voyager.c-com.net (voyager.c-com.net [209.127.0.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01751 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:03:40 -0400 Received: from Todd_L (dial8.phoenix.net [205.241.121.22]) by voyager.c-com.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA29160 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:03:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <372F250C.4054@c-com.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:49:16 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: alternative engines References: <199905040944.EAA26846@dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Couldn't one definition of an anti-gravity car be an 'Airplane'? Later! Todd....!! ------------ xxalexx@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Univ. of Alabamba is working on a anti-gravity car. > Says could be ready within 10 yrs. > Will not need fuel injection or conventional fuel as we know it. > There is a photo of a car airborne, but did not say if prototype. > article in this issue of Discover Magazine. > alex From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 11:03:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01764 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:03:44 -0400 Received: from accessone.com (root@blaze.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01757 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:03:42 -0400 Received: from seasteel.perkinscoie.com (seasteel.perkinscoie.com [209.168.2.2]) by accessone.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/PIH) with SMTP id IAA23668 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 08:03:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seacon.perkinscoie.com by seasteel.perkinscoie.com via smtpd (for mailhost.accessone.com [198.68.191.19]) with SMTP; 4 May 1999 15:04:06 UT Received: (private information removed) Message-ID: <83FCF6B73CC1D211BAA900A0C92C03380189F4AD@sea-mail> From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: fuel line check valve reality check Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:01:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu really ? I had no idea. thanks Ted I will check into this. -----Original Message----- From: Tedscj@aol.com [mailto:Tedscj@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 7:17 AM To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: fuel line check valve reality check In a message dated 5/4/99, 2:13:32 AM, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu writes: <> The SII and SIII XJ6 uses valves that are both one-way and electric shut-off. I think they are $30 - $40 a piece new, and of course if you can find one in a junk yard that would be even better. They are located in the rear wheel well, next to the gas tank, and behind a shield. I think they are probably exactly what you need since you will still be able to maintain the ability to switch between tanks. I have tried to simplify the system in my SII but have found there is no way around using the electric valves. Otherwise you have problems with one tank emptying before the other and introducing air into the gas line. Ted From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 11:06:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA01814 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:06:11 -0400 Received: from trojan.highend.com (root@trojan.highend.com [207.19.240.70]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA01808 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:06:09 -0400 Received: from hermes.highend.com (hermes.highend.com [207.19.240.82]) by trojan.highend.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA10547 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:18:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gloria_w.highend.com by hermes.highend.com (Lotus SMTP MTA v1.1 (385.6 5-6-1997)) with SMTP id 86256767.00520D95; Tue, 4 May 1999 09:56:14 -0500 Message-ID: <372F0C2B.F@texas.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 10:03:07 -0500 From: Stephen Cranford X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Reverse Cooling? References: <199905011743.NAA30013@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> <372DFAA7.7FCFD5EA@pcmail.css.mot.com> <372EE6F8.1CAB965D@cummins.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Matt S Bower wrote: > > GM went to it earlier than the LT1. If you look at late 80's IROC's > TA's and vettes they should all be reverse flowed. The reason as I can > recall was something to do with trying to control the head temps for > emmisions. They were able to get around the need with the LS1 engine > and went back to the standard flow which I believe keeps the whole > system at a more uniform temp. Bottom line still is that the gains > weren't high enough for anyone else to fool with it. > Try again...The L98's in the C4's and 3rd gen F-Body's weren't reverse flow at all. The LT1 is GM's one and only reverse flow V8. Reverse flow cooling led to cylinder temp problems that GM thought wouldn't be a problem and that's why the LS1 isn't reverse flow. -- Stephen Cranford 92 RS Sapphire Blue w/Purple Pearl & White Stripes 86 IROC-Z28 Red w/black hood and NO interior..new toy! 89 GMC 4WD 1/2 ton Suburban http://austin.f-body.org/ http://cranford.home.texas.net From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 11:16:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02017 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:16:00 -0400 Received: from horizon.hit.net (rah@horizon.hit.net [206.252.160.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02014 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:15:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (rah@localhost) by horizon.hit.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05167 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 10:15:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 10:15:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Roger Heflin To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Reverse Cooling? In-Reply-To: <372F0C2B.F@texas.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 4 May 1999, Stephen Cranford wrote: > Matt S Bower wrote: > > > > GM went to it earlier than the LT1. If you look at late 80's IROC's > > TA's and vettes they should all be reverse flowed. The reason as I can > > recall was something to do with trying to control the head temps for > > emmisions. They were able to get around the need with the LS1 engine > > and went back to the standard flow which I believe keeps the whole > > system at a more uniform temp. Bottom line still is that the gains > > weren't high enough for anyone else to fool with it. > > > > Try again...The L98's in the C4's and 3rd gen F-Body's weren't reverse > flow at all. The LT1 is GM's one and only reverse flow V8. Reverse > flow cooling led to cylinder temp problems that GM thought wouldn't be a > problem and that's why the LS1 isn't reverse flow. What did the cylinder temp problems cause to happen? Roger From diy_efi-owner Tue May 4 11:37:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) id LAA02475 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:37:49 -0400 Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02471 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:37:47 -0400 Received: from nacelp ([207.58.99.8]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id LAA01516 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 11:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007d01be9644$23ee12a0$08633acf@nacelp> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: Subject: Re: OT max economy, engine stress Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:38:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: William T Wilson To: Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 4:38 AM Subject: Re: OT max economy, engine stress "Lugging" an engine till it shutters, ain't good. The shutter is usually do to the t