From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 09:32:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08335 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:32:43 -0400 Received: from elbert.tombrown (elbert.tombrown.com [204.131.166.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08332 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:32:42 -0400 Received: from lasal.net (216.64.129.57 [216.64.129.57]) by elbert.tombrown with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id RQHKPR3T; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:39:47 -0600 Message-ID: <37CD2B1A.4D2E54D@lasal.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 07:33:14 -0600 From: Gary Moulton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Manual idle control Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I have a 1994 Jeep, 4.0L engine with MOPAR's efi system. I would like to electrically control the idle for a slower speed and be able to increase the idle for winching or running my onboard air compressor. Back in my GM repair days we had a tool that plugged between the IAC and its harness with a switch that would step the idle up or down, can a home-brew item like this be built for this type of efi system? Thanks in advance GaryM From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 11:01:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09456 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:01:44 -0400 Received: from sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net (sttl2.sttl.uswest.net [206.81.192.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09453 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:01:42 -0400 Received: (qmail 3279 invoked by alias); 1 Sep 1999 15:01:40 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu@fixme Received: (qmail 3246 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 1999 15:01:39 -0000 Received: from dialupz101.sttl.uswest.net (HELO dynamodave) (216.161.242.101) by pop.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 15:01:39 -0000 Message-ID: <029701bef48a$e1eb21e0$658cb5d1@dynamodave> From: "David Hiatt" To: References: <199909010900.FAA06290@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #499 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:52:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_024D_01BEF44F.010EE660" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_024D_01BEF44F.010EE660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello guys my name is David Hiatt and here's my question: I'm looking to put a fuel injection system on a 190 c.u. Corvair engine built for an airplane. Could I get some suggestions on where I might start my search for the right (components or system). I'm looking for lightweight, very reliable, and fairly simple. The engine will have a custom built intake system (six individual runners) I think a single injector at the throttle body would be the cheapest and lightest with slightly less power than six injectors (direct port). Thoughts anyone??? ------=_NextPart_000_024D_01BEF44F.010EE660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello guys my name is David Hiatt and here's my question:

I'm looking to put a fuel injection system on a 190 c.u. Corvair = engine=20 built for an airplane. Could I get some suggestions on where I might = start my=20 search for the right (components or system). I'm looking for = lightweight, very=20 reliable, and fairly simple. The engine will have a custom built intake = system=20 (six individual runners) I think a single injector at the throttle body = would be=20 the cheapest and lightest with slightly less power than six injectors = (direct=20 port).

Thoughts anyone???

------=_NextPart_000_024D_01BEF44F.010EE660-- From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 13:48:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11668 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:48:24 -0400 Received: from sttlpop2.sttl.uswest.net (sttl2.sttl.uswest.net [206.81.192.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11663 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:48:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 16538 invoked by alias); 1 Sep 1999 17:48:16 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu@fixme Received: (qmail 16508 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 1999 17:48:15 -0000 Received: from dialupaa21.sttl.uswest.net (HELO dynamodave) (216.161.243.21) by pop.sttl.uswest.net with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 17:48:15 -0000 Message-ID: <034a01bef4a2$285cc400$658cb5d1@dynamodave> From: "David Hiatt" To: "EFI forum" Subject: test Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:48:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0346_01BEF467.7B886DE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0346_01BEF467.7B886DE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David L. Hiatt Auburn, Washington 98092 ------=_NextPart_000_0346_01BEF467.7B886DE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

David L. Hiatt
Auburn, = Washington
98092

------=_NextPart_000_0346_01BEF467.7B886DE0-- From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 13:50:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11721 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:50:24 -0400 Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11716 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:50:22 -0400 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti01a25-0080.dialup.online.no [130.67.3.80]) by online.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA11416 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:50:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909011750.TAA11416@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #499 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:48:39 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Dave! I have tryed to get some software to do the same....no luck yet. Have been in contact with Delco and Mark Laubenstein who made the hardware and Ron Gaskins who made the software . They are wery helpful and I feel they dont like the secret filosofy . Delco has the software you need Its called PC-CAL/PC-HUD. All the marinizers has this program and about 4 persons in US including Arizona speed and marine.You need to have an agreement with GMPTG to get the software. The person to contact to get this is Rich Waggoner M/C 483 720 210 GM Powertrain 777 Joslyn Aveny Pontiac , MI 48340 They adviced to contact him on phone first : 248 857 2321. Please keep me posted if you have better luck or find ant other software Espen Hilde From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 17:41:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14727 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:41:31 -0400 Received: from slinky.snni.com (jon@slinky.snni.com [204.216.104.250]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14724 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:41:29 -0400 Received: from localhost (jon@localhost) by slinky.snni.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA05241 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:11:21 -0700 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:11:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jon V." X-Sender: jon@slinky.snni.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Lotus engines and bike TB's In-Reply-To: <199908311900.PAA29486@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Nic wrote: > >Actually, I liked a lot of the ideas presented. I think the motorcycle TB > >assy is probably too small in the throat, but that was the idea I liked > >best. > > Think about it this way: If you strip a throttle body of a 1300 Suzuki bike > that redlines at 12000rpm and mount it on a 2.5l engine that only does > 6000rpm you are looking at the same flow rate. Yeah, I was thinking about it two ways... assuming that my Internet calculator skills are sufficient to the task, a 2L engine that redlines at 6.8-7.2K (about where mine does/would) needs ~23036 CFM to feed it. The 1300, 12KRPM motocycle engine would need ~26327 CFM (These numbers are pulled from the net, and I didn't check the assumptions that went into them... just CID, RPM, and (a high) 95%VE), which sounds like it is a perfect fit and everything is WONDERFUL and I'm just wishing I could figure out where I'm gonna find a Suzuki without an owner for long enough to... um... anyway... I'm trying to find the parts... That was way one, BUT... That was assuming identical volumetric efficiencies, and I'm not sure that is valid. The high-winding motocycle would gain more from an easy flow path at the top end... but it would also be in some ways less likely to have it, just because street riders are less likely to hit a 12K redline regularly than I am to hit a 6.5-7K redline.... well... I don't *know* that really... my ol'dad used to have a Honda with a redline way out in the stratosphere... like 17K RPM... and he says he used the whole range.... but then again it was a megaphoned 2-stroke racer when he got it (stopped three times driving it home sort of thing) and that sort of breaks most of the rules anyway. > I got a set of throttle > bodies + injectors + FI pump for $40. And they are in mint condition. See, now THAT is what I consider cheap. I've been trying to find that sort of deal... I'll need to try harder. Where/how did you get that deal??? > Quick question: Why does most bikes use individual TB assemblies for > each cylinder while most cars use a single TB? I know how much pain > it is to keep the sync on a bike right, so what is the real gain? I think it is the reason most motorcycles don't have 30Lbs flywheels... they don't need a lot of low end torque, being as light as the are, but a good top end helps a lot. The individual throttle plates are good for better air flow (top end) but don't help with torque the way merged airflow intake systems do. At least, that's what I've mungled my way into believing... ya'might wanna check the reasoning before you go quoting it at parties. The current pair of carbs on my engine would, stock, go into a long flow intake system to get a good air flow going in the mid RPM range. The previous owner torched that and I in my infinitesimal wisdom torched what he did in favor of a pair of air filters from a small ford turbo engine... the result is that I need to unbolt the air filters to check the oil, but I have no appreciable intake resistance, as documented by the fact that the old crankcase breather system which used to attach between the air filter and the carbs and pull a respectable if not all that impressive vacuum now pulls ZIP when attached to just one of the carbs. Most motorcycles seem to have one throat per cylinder one way or another. My Yamaha 1100 has four 34MM carbs feeding it. > I'm not sure which route to go with the bike. I can either make the > Suzuki TB's fit (lots of pain) or simply make a manifold with injectors > at the ports and a single TB at the intake of the surge tank. Will there > be any real difference? > How about the difference between TBI and multipoint injection? Multipoint sounds neater. Actually, TBI injection is really just a snazzy digital way of making a carb that works.... > Does the fact that it is an Turbo affect the answers? Good question! I don't know, but I would ignorantly guess that it makes all of the air flow issues for torque irrelevant. Whatever restrictions a lack of throttle plates would add could be overcome by jumping the boost, and whatever a long air pipe can do for assuring good air flow at low RPMs the turbo will do better. I don't know... but I *like* $40! I gotta find me a deal like that. -Jon ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- This was the most unkindest cut of all. -- William Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar" From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 19:11:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15529 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:11:42 -0400 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15525 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:11:41 -0400 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:12:08 -0400 Received: from [216.64.100.10] by grolen.com id 99560.wrk; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:10:44 EDT Message-ID: <37CDB244.DD206626@grolen.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:09:56 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Repaired file (was Re: stepped-on..) References: <19990901060535.496.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I've repaired acsu0024 and put it on the FTP site. Let me know how it works. Shannen Brent Obermiller wrote: > > Okay, yes I'm sorry I was going from memory... I did put 96h in place of the > 00h in the last byte but the symptom is still there. Any ideas? > -Brent > > mailto:ober_b@sssnet.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 21:25:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16850 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:25:05 -0400 Received: from hotmail.com (f309.hotmail.com [207.82.251.222]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA16847 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:25:03 -0400 Received: (qmail 3734 invoked by uid 0); 2 Sep 1999 01:24:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19990902012433.3733.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.68.45.176 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:24:32 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.68.45.176] From: "Bill the arcstarter" To: mporter@zianet.com, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Stepper/servo motor control.... Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:24:32 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu "Michael D. Porter" wrote: >I have determined that I can do what I need with a circuit to control a >stepper or servo motor from a variable resistance. What I need is a >motor/circuit combination which will provide an absolute position for a >given resistance. For reasons of cost, the cheapest means of input for >altitude is a barometric sensor for an L-Jetronic digital fuel injection >system--essentially, the input device is a sealed bellows with a strain >gauge inside. Yes there is a very (sl)easy way to do this. Buy a steering servo for an RC car or plane. This contains the motor, feedback device, and all. You have to feed it a pulsetrain (PWM). The duty cycle determines the shaft position. I'm thinking about doing the same for a buddy's diesel wabbit injection pump. ;) This has been hacked to death in other electronics sites on the 'net. Don Lancaster's for example. Also look around the PIC lists and sites. If you need more help perhaps I can give it? -Bill ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 1 23:55:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18122 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:55:10 -0400 Received: from duval.se.mediaone.net (duval.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.67]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18119 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:55:09 -0400 Received: from mediaone.net (surf422.pompano.net [24.129.29.122]) by duval.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10511 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CDF58E.FFCD9945@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 23:57:02 -0400 From: Jeff Smith Organization: Gagging Sloth Records X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-MOEATL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Ford ECU connector? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, A friend was showing me the ECU in his Ford Contour, and it appears to have a connector on the back for something. Anyone know what? If you take off the little connector, there is a card edge there, about 30 pins or so, but I don't know what the pinout is, or what it is supposed to do. Anyone know? jds From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 07:35:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21869 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:35:33 -0400 Received: from wasp.co.za (IDENT:root@wasp.co.za [196.31.211.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21866 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:35:19 -0400 Received: from nvdwpc (nvdwpc.wasp.co.za [196.31.211.37]) by wasp.co.za (8.9.1/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA13316 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:35:09 +0200 Message-Id: <4.1.19990902132927.013b44d0@wasp.co.za> X-Sender: nvdw@wasp.co.za X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:38:45 +0200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Nic van der Walt Subject: Re: Lotus engines and bike TB's In-Reply-To: <199909020900.FAA20740@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> I got a set of throttle >> bodies + injectors + FI pump for $40. And they are in mint condition. > >See, now THAT is what I consider cheap. I've been trying to find that sort >of deal... I'll need to try harder. Where/how did you get that deal??? I strolled into the local bike wrecker's shop and asked him: "What parts have you got of EFI bikes?". He canned himself and told me a long story that went like this: Once upon a time EFI bikes became a fashion and every speedfreak yuppie bought himself one. Then they all ended up doing one of two things: 1) Crash the bike. 2) Jump start the bike. In the first instance it's easy to see how the nifty bits ended up in a box, but the second is interesting. Seems that most of those brainboxes died easily when jumpstarting from a car.... The dealers couldn't replace them and our enterprizing shopowner started importing aftermarket carbs for those bikes. He claims he exhanged 100's of EFI systems with carbs. Anyway, all those EFI systems are lying in a pile at the back of his shop. Moral: Try you local bike wreckers. Regards, Nic van der Walt ------------------------------------------------------------ Cellpoint Systems SA http://www.cellpt.co.za GSM Technology for Positioning and Telematics ------------------------------------------------------------ From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 09:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23091 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:20:53 -0400 Received: from mx1.magmacom.com (mx1.magmacom.com [206.191.0.217]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23087 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:20:51 -0400 Received: from mail2.magma.ca (mail2y.magma.ca [206.191.0.227]) by mx1.magmacom.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA18083 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:20:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from goodall@localhost) by mail2.magma.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23968; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909021320.JAA23968@mail2.magma.ca> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Colin Goodall Subject: Re: Lotus engines and bike TB's X-Account: goodall X-Sender-IP: 199.166.253.130 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Yeah, I was thinking about it two ways... assuming that my > Internet calculator skills are sufficient to the task, a 2L > engine that redlines at 6.8-7.2K (about where mine does/would) > needs ~23036 CFM to feed it. The 1300, 12KRPM motocycle engine > would need ~26327 CFM (These numbers are pulled from the net, > and I didn't check the assumptions that went into them ... > That was assuming identical volumetric efficiencies, and > I'm not sure that is valid. On many of the large displacement sport bikes they now employ some form of ram- air induction which may very likely throw your assumptions off about flow rates. Colin Goodall goodall@magmacom.com P.S. This is my first posting to the mailing list so forgive me if I am out of line ;-) From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 09:54:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23675 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:54:32 -0400 Received: from lasvegas.net (mail.lasvegas.net [207.168.185.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23672 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:54:31 -0400 From: neilaura@accessworldnet.com Received: from desktop (dialup-65.lasvegas.net [207.168.187.65]) by lasvegas.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA17153 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:54:27 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990902064729.006956e4@mail.accessworldnet.com> X-Sender: neilaura@mail.accessworldnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:47:32 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #501 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu A friend was showing me the ECU in his Ford Contour, and it appears to have a connector on the back for something. Anyone know what? If you take off the little connector, there is a card edge there, about 30 pins or so, but I don't know what the pinout is, or what it is supposed to do. Anyone know? jds Just had a look at one of my reference books. It lists a 104 Pin connector for the entire Contour range, nothing else. The pin chart also shows that about 40 of the pins are unused which seems strange. If you can get the numbers off the casing I'll check with one of my friends at the local Ford dealership. Neil From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 10:03:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23813 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:03:09 -0400 Received: from smtp.tetranet.net (mail.tetranet.net [207.246.192.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23810 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:03:08 -0400 Received: from tetranet.net (stl-152.max21.tetranet.net [207.246.192.152]) by smtp.tetranet.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA20961 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:03:06 -0500 Message-ID: <37CE835F.AB3FD14D@tetranet.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 09:02:07 -0500 From: DC Smith X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Manual idle control References: <199909011900.PAA12539@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Gary, Back in my cable television days, I used a cruise control diaphram off of a chrysler to pull the throttle open a little, when running the bucket on my bucket truck. It was wired to trigger a vacuum solenoid that controlled the cruise diaphram, whenever any of the bucket control switches were activated. This was due to having an engine operated pump running off of a V belt, and would speed the operation of the bucket, upon demand. I could also bypass this for low speed operation in tight quarters. I had this bucket really flyin when I wanted it to. :) > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 07:33:14 -0600 > From: Gary Moulton > Subject: Manual idle control > > Hi, > I have a 1994 Jeep, 4.0L engine with MOPAR's efi system. I would like to > electrically control the idle for a slower speed and be able to increase > the idle for winching or running my onboard air compressor. Back in my > GM repair days we had a tool that plugged between the IAC and its > harness with a switch that would step the idle up or down, can a > home-brew item like this be built for this type of efi system? > Thanks in advance > GaryM > > ------------------------------ *********************************************************************** Dan Smith 84 Regal 12.03@110.45 GSCA# 1459 St.Charles, Missouri mailto:morepoweral@tetranet.net http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral *********************************************************************** From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 10:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24266 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:27:07 -0400 Received: from users.qual.net (users.qual.net [209.57.253.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24263 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:27:06 -0400 Received: from gderian (dialcust-62.ts7.cv.oh.verio.net [205.212.2.62]) by users.qual.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12046 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <015401bef54e$b6f4bfe0$7601d4cd@gderian> From: "Gary Derian" To: References: <199909020900.FAA20740@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #501 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:07:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu See the following responses: Gary Derian > > Yeah, I was thinking about it two ways... assuming that my Internet > calculator skills are sufficient to the task, a 2L engine that redlines at > 6.8-7.2K (about where mine does/would) needs ~23036 CFM to feed it. The > 1300, 12KRPM motocycle engine would need ~26327 CFM (These numbers are I think those cfm numbers are off. If you do the math, you will discover that 140 cfm produces 100 hp. > I think it is the reason most motorcycles don't have 30Lbs flywheels... > they don't need a lot of low end torque, being as light as the are, but a > good top end helps a lot. The individual throttle plates are good for > better air flow (top end) but don't help with torque the way merged > airflow intake systems do. You can merge intake tubes with individual throttles as easily as a single throttle body. You gain response with individual throttles. > > Does the fact that it is an Turbo affect the answers? > > Good question! I don't know, but I would ignorantly guess that it makes > all of the air flow issues for torque irrelevant. Whatever restrictions a > lack of throttle plates would add could be overcome by jumping the boost, > and whatever a long air pipe can do for assuring good air flow at low RPMs > the turbo will do better. A turbo benefits from tuned low restriction flow just as much as a naturally aspirated engine. Making a turbo boost high then restricting the flow causes extra backpressure in the exhaust and extra heat in the intake. > A friend was showing me the ECU in his Ford Contour, and it appears to > have a connector on the back for something. Anyone know what? If you > take off the little connector, there is a card edge there, about 30 pins > or so, but I don't know what the pinout is, or what it is supposed to > do. Anyone know? I just read a Car & Driver article which tested aftermarket chips. They plugged the Contour chip into that edge. From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 10:35:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24378 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:35:57 -0400 Received: from mail.wfubmc.edu (mail.wfubmc.edu [152.11.242.104]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24375 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:35:56 -0400 Received: from mihmp ([152.11.20.200]) by mail.wfubmc.edu (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with ESMTP id AAA1A53 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:37:49 -0400 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990902103208.00960e20@mail.lig.bellsouth.net> X-Sender: n5xmt@mail.lig.bellsouth.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:35:21 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: David Cooley Subject: Re: Ford ECU connector? In-Reply-To: <199909020900.FAA20740@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu At 05:00 AM 9/2/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >A friend was showing me the ECU in his Ford Contour, and it appears to >have a connector on the back for something. Anyone know what? If you >take off the little connector, there is a card edge there, about 30 pins >or so, but I don't know what the pinout is, or what it is supposed to >do. Anyone know? Yep.. That is called the J3 connector or Service port. It gives you direct access to the address/data bus. Check out : http://www2.austin.cc.tx.us/ESA/tc_eec.htm They have links to EECSUCKA, a device you plug to the J3 port that reads the scrambled internal ford rom, and a J3 adapter. All pinouts etc are there. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@bellsouth.net Packet: N5XMT@KQ4LO.#INT.NC.USA.NA T.A.P.R. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 11:08:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25360 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:08:41 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA25357 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:08:40 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.106.140] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11MYTb-0006dUC for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:08:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <041101bef555$e0b5d1f0$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: Engine CFM Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:14:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:11:20 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Jon V." [snip] >Yeah, I was thinking about it two ways... assuming that my Internet >calculator skills are sufficient to the task, a 2L engine that redlines at >6.8-7.2K (about where mine does/would) needs ~23036 CFM to feed it. The >1300, 12KRPM motocycle engine would need ~26327 CFM (These numbers are >pulled from the net, and I didn't check the assumptions that went into >them... just CID, RPM, and (a high) 95%VE), which sounds like it >is a perfect fit and everything is WONDERFUL and I'm just wishing I could >figure out where I'm gonna find a Suzuki without an owner for long enough >to... um... anyway... I'm trying to find the parts... Hi, These are the types of assumptions that do need checking out, especially if you are sizing injectors. A 2L engine is about 121 cubic inches. for every revolution it has two cylinders that do an intake stroke so it requires 121 / 2 = 60.5 cubic inches of air per engine revolution. This works out to 7200 RPM * 60.5 cubic inches per rev = 435600 cubic inches per minute. With 12^3 cubic inches in a cubic foot we divide into the cubic inches per minute to get 435600/1728 = 252 CFM or 15,120 Cubic Feet per Hour. Quite a different number from ~23036 CFM. Now just work out how how much 15,120 Cubic Feet weighs and you should get how many lbs of fuel required per hour at 100% duty cycle assuming 100% VE. John From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 2 22:37:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00436 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:37:40 -0400 Received: from teapot06.domain1.bigpond.com (teapot06.domain1.bigpond.com [139.134.5.237]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA00433 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:37:38 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot06.domain1.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id da247367 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:34:58 +1000 Received: from DC-101-1.bpb.bigpond.com ([203.40.101.1]) by mail1.bigpond.com (Claudes-Conscious-MailRouter V2.4d 1/665868); 03 Sep 1999 12:34:57 Message-ID: <003101bef5b5$65db2920$016528cb@power> From: "K V Jaeger" To: Cc: Subject: DIY_EFI digest V4 #501 / Lotus Engines / sizing of induction Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:37:13 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEF5F8.48DE1100" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEF5F8.48DE1100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jon V, You must have miscalculated somewhere along the line. A small engine = will never pull those big CFM numbers. {Engine cu.in x rpm / 1728 (No. of cu. ins in a cubic foot)} x VE =3D = CFM Ugly engines, VE =3D 75% Highly tuned racing engine (at point of max. torque) =3D 100+ % VE Tuned runner street engine =3D who knows, it varies. To convert cc to cubic inches (according to Commercial Hydraulics manual = I just picked up) multiply by 0.06102. Much can be learned about engine breathing from a file that can be = downloaded at the following ftp site:- ftp://ftp.superflow.com.au The = file is called Dynomation Zip. From this file, you can print the manual = (Doc). The wealth of knowledge about engine breathing contained in the = manual is exceptional.=20 You can try coming from the www.superflow.com.au direction. Stop off and = visit Holden Racing Team. These cars use MoTeC ECU's. Another Australian = ECU is the Autronic, but I have noticed that you guys call it something = else. I think the US dealer must re-badge this race ECU. Haltech is = another Australian ECU, but these are a long way off the mark when = compared to Motec's logic, hardware, power and interface software. This = is my own opinion of course.=20 =20 Totally different subject =20 A while back Motorola were putting out an eval. board for one of their = Coldfire processors. It came with Integrated Systems C/C++ compiler, a = communication card for the PC, a serial cable. The debug firmware = provided debug / disassembly and everything that opens and shuts. It = just seemed that such a tool might be a handy little number for what = most are doing. We paid $130.00 AU ($85.00 US). To cut a long story = short we ended up using another type of processor with a lot more grunt = for about the same money as the Coldfire, but this eval. package was = well worth the money. Anyone familiar with it? I am interested in the different projects going on. This digest is a lot = of work for someone at your end, I am not sure who? I am sure, that we = at this end should all be most grateful for your efforts.=20 Regards, Ken Thompson. WhistleBlowers@bigpond.com ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEF5F8.48DE1100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jon V,

You must have miscalculated somewhere = along the=20 line. A small engine will never pull those big CFM = numbers.

{Engine cu.in x rpm / 1728 (No. of cu. = ins in a=20 cubic foot)} x VE =3D CFM

Ugly engines, VE =3D 75%

Highly tuned racing engine (at point of = max.=20 torque) =3D 100+ % VE

Tuned runner street engine =3D who = knows, it=20 varies.

To convert cc to cubic inches = (according to=20 Commercial Hydraulics manual I just picked up) multiply by = 0.06102.

Much can be learned about engine = breathing from a=20 file that can be downloaded at the following ftp site:- ftp://ftp.superflow.com.au The = file is=20 called Dynomation Zip. From this file, you can print the manual (Doc). = The=20 wealth of knowledge about engine breathing contained in the manual = is=20 exceptional.

You can try coming from the www.superflow.com.au direction. = Stop off=20 and visit Holden Racing Team. These cars use MoTeC ECU's. = Another=20 Australian ECU is the Autronic, but I have noticed that you guys = call it=20 something else. I think the US dealer must re-badge this race ECU. = Haltech=20 is another Australian ECU, but these are a long way off the mark when = compared=20 to Motec's logic, hardware, power and interface software. This is = my own=20 opinion of course.

Totally different subject =20

A while back Motorola were putting out = an eval.=20 board for one of their Coldfire processors. It came with Integrated = Systems=20 C/C++ compiler, a communication card for the PC, a serial cable. The = debug=20 firmware provided debug / disassembly and everything that opens and = shuts. It=20 just seemed that such a tool might be a handy little number for = what most=20 are doing. We paid $130.00 AU ($85.00 US). To cut a long story short we = ended up=20 using another type of processor with a lot more grunt for about the same = money=20 as the Coldfire, but this eval. package was well worth the money. Anyone = familiar with it?

I am interested in the different = projects going=20 on. This digest is a lot of work for someone at your end, I am not = sure=20 who? I am sure, that we at this end should all be most = grateful=20 for your efforts.

Regards,

Ken Thompson.

WhistleBlowers@bigpond.com=

------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BEF5F8.48DE1100-- From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 3 02:51:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03114 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 02:51:11 -0400 Received: from online.no (pilt-s.online.no [148.122.208.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03111 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 02:51:09 -0400 Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti01a22-0057.dialup.online.no [130.67.1.185]) by online.no (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA21638 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:51:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909030651.IAA21638@online.no> From: "Espen Hilde" To: Subject: Mercruiser 502 EFI Software Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:49:26 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Dave! I have tryed to get some software to do the same....no luck yet. Have been in contact with Delco and Mark Laubenstein who made the hardware and Ron Gaskins who made the software . They are wery helpful and I feel they dont like the secret filosofy . Delco has the software you need Its called PC-CAL/PC-HUD. All the marinizers has this program and about 4 persons in US including Arizona speed and marine.You need to have an agreement with GMPTG to get the software. The person to contact to get this is Rich Waggoner M/C 483 720 210 GM Powertrain 777 Joslyn Aveny Pontiac , MI 48340 They adviced to contact him on phone first : 248 857 2321. Please keep me posted if you have better luck or find an other software Espen Hilde From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 3 05:01:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA04298 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:01:22 -0400 Received: from teapot23.domain2.bigpond.com (teapot23.domain2.bigpond.com [139.134.5.165]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA04295 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:01:20 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot23.domain2.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ha049719 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:58:33 +1000 Received: from DC-101-115.bpb.bigpond.com ([203.40.101.115]) by mail2.bigpond.com (Claudes-Galvanized-MailRouter V2.4d 3/2482897); 03 Sep 1999 18:58:33 Message-ID: <001801bef5ea$fe267c40$736528cb@power> From: "K V Jaeger" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Correction/comments/V4 #501/Lotus/sizing Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:01:58 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF62E.08BFAB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF62E.08BFAB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jon, In amongst the fruit buns and iced coffee of morning tea, I neglected to = mention one very important part to the CFM calculation. I stated the = formula incorrectly. I was going to mention air requirements of 2 stroke = and 4 stroke (or even Mazda Rotary), but got side tracked. In the case of a 4 stroke engine, induction occurs on every other turn = of the engine and will therefore pump half the air previously stated.=20 What is possible on the two stroke engine, is something else again. = Orbital Engine Corporation of Western Australia have some good reading = matter on two stroke breathing. www.orbeng.com.au I have not checked = their site for some time. They also have a factory in Detroit, but I do = not know about a US website. =20 Sorry about the goose chase, Regards, K.T. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF62E.08BFAB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jon,

In amongst the fruit buns and iced = coffee of=20 morning tea, I neglected to mention one very important part to the CFM=20 calculation. I stated the formula incorrectly. I was going to mention = air=20 requirements of 2 stroke and 4 stroke (or even Mazda Rotary), but got = side=20 tracked.

In the case of a 4 stroke engine, = induction occurs=20 on every other turn of the engine and will therefore pump half the air=20 previously stated.

What is possible on the two stroke = engine, is=20 something else again. Orbital Engine Corporation of Western Australia = have some=20 good reading matter on two stroke breathing. www.orbeng.com.au I have not = checked their=20 site for some time. They also have a factory in Detroit, but I do not = know about=20 a US website.

Sorry about the goose = chase,

Regards,

K.T.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BEF62E.08BFAB20-- From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 3 06:37:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05146 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:37:43 -0400 Received: from teapot06.domain1.bigpond.com (teapot06.domain1.bigpond.com [139.134.5.237]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA05143 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:37:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot06.domain1.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ja263597 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:34:57 +1000 Received: from DC-101-183.bpb.bigpond.com ([203.40.101.183]) by mail1.bigpond.com (Claudes-Dreamy-MailRouter V2.4d 1/751550); 03 Sep 1999 20:34:56 Message-ID: <000a01bef5f8$73cb4b30$b76528cb@power> From: "K V Jaeger" To: Subject: Fw: Correction/comments/V4 #501/Lotus/sizing Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:15:58 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01BEF62F.FD09DB50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BEF62F.FD09DB50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: K V Jaeger=20 To: DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu=20 Cc: jon@valvesh.com=20 Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Correction/comments/V4 #501/Lotus/sizing Jon, Your private e-mail does not seem to be working. In amongst the fruit buns and iced coffee of morning tea, I neglected to = mention one very important part to the CFM calculation. I stated the = formula incorrectly. I was going to mention air requirements of 2 stroke = and 4 stroke (or even Mazda Rotary), but got side tracked. In the case of a 4 stroke engine, induction occurs on every other turn = of the engine and will therefore pump half the air previously stated.=20 What is possible on the two stroke engine, is something else again. = Orbital Engine Corporation of Western Australia have some good reading = matter on two stroke breathing. www.orbeng.com.au I have not checked = their site for some time. They also have a factory in Detroit, but I do = not know about a US website. =20 Sorry about the goose chase, Regards, K.T. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BEF62F.FD09DB50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

----- Original Message -----=20

From: K V=20 Jaeger

To: DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.en= g.ohio-state.edu=20

Cc: jon@valvesh.com

Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 5:01 PM

Subject: Re: Correction/comments/V4 = #501/Lotus/sizing

Jon,

Your private e-mail does not seem to be = working.

In the case of a 4 stroke engine, = induction occurs=20 on every other turn of the engine and will therefore pump half the air=20 previously stated.

Sorry about the goose = chase,

Regards,

K.T.

------=_NextPart_000_0035_01BEF62F.FD09DB50-- From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 3 13:00:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09868 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:00:48 -0400 Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09857; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:00:43 -0400 From: PHXSYS@aol.com Received: from PHXSYS@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id jLYUa01400 (3931); Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:00:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:00:01 EDT Subject: ALDL OBDII linking for sensor values To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi This is my first post. I have a project where I want to obtain sensor data directly to a microprocessor (PIC or Stamp). I want to get specific parameters: RPM, TPS,CTS,MAP/MAF, O2 maybe a few others and use that data to control some additional equipment I will add to the vehicle. I am adding and LPG system to my 1994 chevy p/u. With the flick of a switch I will be able to run on LPG or unleaded fuel. I thought this might be an easy way to get data through the diagnostic link to simplify the installation and wiring. I am not really sure how to get started. Here are some sites I have found that offer some info, but I need help seeing the big picture. www.hit.net\~rah\disassnotes.html www.isthq.com\~dan\aldl.htm www.ag.auburn.edu\~gparmer\bookmark.htm www.franken.de\users\dagobah\luke\scantool.html http://www.obdii.com/obdii.html Thanks Jon From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 3 15:50:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12319 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:50:13 -0400 Received: from exchmail.pns.anl.gov (exchmail.pns.anl.gov [146.139.156.118]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12316 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:50:12 -0400 Received: by exchmail.pns.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:50:43 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kurek, Larry" To: "'Cl-F-Body'" , "'DIY EFI Main List'" , "'F-Body Classic'" , "'Fourth Gen'" , "'Third Gen'" Subject: Complete LT1 For Sale Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:50:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone interested in a complete LT1, sans Optispark? It is from a 96 and has a wiring harness and PCM with it. I believe it has about 40K miles. FWIW, this is a friend of a friend who has it, so I have not personally looked at it yet. If anyone is interested (seriously) I will drive over and look at it. He is asking $1800, but I think I can talk him down a bit :) If anyone IS interested, let me know. It is near Chicago, and I can deliver it anywhere in Illinois, WI, IN, IA, MI (lower lower) or St Louis :) TTYL! Larry From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 3 21:38:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16690 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:38:18 -0400 Received: from m1.boston.juno.com (m1.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.199]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16687 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:38:17 -0400 From: jimlinder@juno.com Received: (from jimlinder@juno.com) by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EKMUA3FC; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:37:08 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:39:08 -0500 Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #503 Message-ID: <19990903.203909.-398635.2.JIMLINDER@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,6-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu All Injector Wizzards We have just found some Bosch Blue top performance tuned fuel injectors for the 350 Inch Chevy engines. All units are flow matched in sets of 8 for $ 260.00 per set exchange. Cores are $ 3.00 each if you wish to purchase them outright. Check out the website at www.lindertech.com Jim Linder the injector " guru " From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 3 22:16:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA17170 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:16:29 -0400 Received: from mail1.toronto.istar.net (mail1.toronto.istar.net [209.89.75.17]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17167 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:16:28 -0400 Received: from ms01-180.vcr.istar.ca ([137.186.176.180] helo=i-star) by mail1.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 11N5NS-00078r-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:16:27 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990903192052.00a438c0@istar.ca> X-Sender: zxv@istar.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:23:55 -0700 To: "kv@us.ibm.com" From: Ross Corrigan Subject: new EFI fuel lines, what to use? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu We're plumbing new fuel lines on my dad's 240Z for his LT1 install. His car was not EFI OEM so we're changing the fuel tank likely as well. I'm wondering what material should be used for bending new fuel lines? I'll also be adding new fuel lines to my 280ZX which had EFI OEM but I'd like to replace the lines w/ larger for better return and supply so I'll learn on my dad's:-) As well any size reccomendations? he's running the OEM '95 Lt1, 275 hp or so, I'll be running anything from my current 300hp 327 to a 400hp 406 or similar. thanks (do we have to get a bender? I've bent brake lines v. well using round objects smartly....) thanks Ross Corrigan / Vancouver, Canada '80 327ZX IZCC#255, Edmonton Z-car Club #44, British Columbia ZCR Life's a journey, not a destination.. Enjoy the pitstops and maximize the straights mailto:zxv@istar.ca *New ICQ # 11549358 http://home.iSTAR.ca/~zxv/index.shtml http://207.212.212.139/~corrigan/gearheads/pics/wheels/sirbg.jpg where a Z belongs From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 4 01:51:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA21155 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:51:15 -0400 Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21152; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:51:14 -0400 From: PHXSYS@aol.com Received: from PHXSYS@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QFQa05147 (4457); Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <34def7f1.25020d2a@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:50:34 EDT Subject: Re: ALDL stuff To: btisdale@cybersol.com, gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Barry Thanks for the help. I am mainly looking for TPS, MAP, O2, RPM, SPEED, BLM, INT. I am not sure what or how to send for a request message to the serial port. I don't have a problem with the serial rs232 interface to a PIC. Are there different interface modes ie slow or fast? Is the data just sent in consecutive bytes and I filter the bytes I want or can I request the data I am looking for? I think the 94 TBI truck does use the 8192 baud and sends 63 bytes. I am not sure what info is at each byte location. Can anyone help? I have diacom PC interface. Is there a way to use that interface to determine the required request message and the type and order of data output from the ALDL? Maybe I have asked too many questions, but I can tell I am getting close to figuring out how to accomplish this. Thanks in advance Jon In a message dated 9/3/99 9:38:28 PM US Mountain Standard Time, btisdale@cybersol.com writes: << Jon - Got into reading the ALDL myself, for tuning purposes, on my 1991 GMC Syclone. First, is to interface the CPU you're using to the data bus from the ALDL. I think your 94 Chev probably uses the 8192 baud as does mine. Not sure what your PIC or Stamp is looking for voltage-wise, but my laptop needs standard RS232 protocol, like +/- 12v, converted from the ALDL's 0-5v. After you can read the idle string, (endless F0 55 BB, in my case), then sending a request message to the serial port, you can get the data you need. Let me know what exactly you're looking for & I'll see if I can help. My prog's in QuickBasic and I've apparently still got some timing problems; occasional crashes/resets every few seconds to few minutes. Still under development; but FUN! Barry >> From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 4 14:26:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26304 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:26:53 -0400 Received: from mail.info2000.net (IDENT:root@mail.info2000.net [204.144.228.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26301 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:26:52 -0400 From: cwagner@info2000.net Received: from default (20717487193.ria.net [207.174.87.193]) by mail.info2000.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14828 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:18:11 -0600 Message-Id: <199909041818.MAA14828@mail.info2000.net> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:21:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: bosch computers X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does any one know how to modify any of the KE-Jetronic computers, or at least have any idea what the adjustment resistors are for. The computer in mind is from an 85 VW Quantum with the 5 cylinder engine and I would like to use it in a four cylinder configuration. The only problems I can see would be the idle speed and the fuel cut off at max rpm. From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 4 16:12:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27229 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:12:33 -0400 Received: from cwcom.net (email.mcmail.com [195.44.0.153]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27226 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 16:12:31 -0400 Received: from rm ([195.44.14.66]) by cwcom.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.167.16); Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:11:46 +0100 Message-ID: <002501bef711$964ebd80$420e2cc3@rm> From: "Rich Mauruschat" To: Subject: Re: Throttle plates for individual throttle injection Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:08:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu -----Original Message----- From: DIY_EFI Digest To: DIY_EFI-Digest@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: 31 August 1999 11:20 Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #497 OK Jon, I take your point - you don't want to be messing with carbs at that sort of price!! Here in the UK you can get a pair of rough carbs for next to nothing, 40mm usually though. Rich >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:49:21 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Jon V." >Subject: Re: Throttle plates for individual throttle injection > >If I could find a "cheap" set of Del'orto carbs and manifold, the last >thing I would do is hack into them! Where I come from, a USED set of >45MM Del'ortos (the size recommended for this engine) with the right >manifold for my engine cost over $900 US, Used and NOT rebuilt... Now, >I'll admit that I didn't do MUCH looking, but I've got one company that >would LOVE to sell me a pair of 45MM Del'ortos with manifold... for $1400 >US! > >So, either I want your bank account or I want your source for carbs... >'cause AFAIK I could buy a whole damn car for the price of a set of those >"cheap" carbs that you are talkin' about. >- -Jon From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 4 23:46:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA32551 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:46:56 -0400 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32542; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:46:53 -0400 From: PHXSYS@aol.com Received: from PHXSYS@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id jWMGa28698 (3889); Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:46:18 EDT Subject: ALDL data stream for 1994 5.7 TBI To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Does anyone know what ALDL data stream is for Chev p/u 1994 5.7 TBI? Some of the members of this list have been very helpful providing info for the 5.7 TPI (vin P). They suggested appeal to the list for this application. I'd settle for a point in the right direction or some pointer on how I may be able to start with the TPI (vin P) data and decode the 5.7 TBI (K). Thanks in advance Jon From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 5 09:58:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05115 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:58:14 -0400 Received: from lasvegas.net (mail.lasvegas.net [207.168.185.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05111 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:58:13 -0400 From: neilaura@accessworldnet.com Received: from desktop (dialup-83.lasvegas.net [207.168.187.83]) by lasvegas.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA12798 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:58:10 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990905070044.006942dc@mail.accessworldnet.com> X-Sender: neilaura@mail.accessworldnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:00:46 -0700 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #507 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >>If I could find a "cheap" set of Del'orto carbs and manifold, the last >>thing I would do is hack into them! Where I come from, a USED set of >>45MM Del'ortos (the size recommended for this engine) with the right >>manifold for my engine cost over $900 US, Used and NOT rebuilt... Now, >>I'll admit that I didn't do MUCH looking, but I've got one company that >>would LOVE to sell me a pair of 45MM Del'ortos with manifold... for $1400 >>US! >> Another throw-away idea. Use the butterfly part of a Q-jet carb. If you are un familiar with Q-jets, the carb splits into 3 major sub assembley's. The part with the butterflys is an aluminium plate about 6" X 6" and 1/2" thick. Has a primary side of approx 40-50mm and a secondary side measured in yards. Should be real easy to cut in half to give dual 40-50mm butterflies with a centre of about 4", it has the added bonus of an air idle adjustment already fitted. The very best part is there are literally millions about and are either free or real cheap. Neil From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 6 05:01:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA17835 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:01:15 -0400 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com (carbon.btinternet.com [194.73.73.92]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17832 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 05:01:13 -0400 Received: from [212.140.99.205] (helo=alansmit) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11NueE-0003Wp-00 for DIY_EFI@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:01:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01bef846$730d4040$cd638cd4@alansmit> From: "Alan Smith" To: "DIY-EFI" Subject: Wanted - Corrado or Golf VR6 BIN Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:01:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF84E.D3A50F20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF84E.D3A50F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have original BIN files for VR6 or Corrado or Golf ECU ? Also, does anyone know how to get the fault codes from this ECU ? Alan Smith ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF84E.D3A50F20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Does anyone have original BIN files for VR6 or = Corrado or Golf=20 ECU ?

Also, does anyone know how to get the fault codes = from this=20 ECU ?

Alan Smith

------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BEF84E.D3A50F20-- From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 6 20:58:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26615 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:58:18 -0400 Received: from rgate2.ricochet.net (rgate2.ricochet.net [204.179.143.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26612 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:58:17 -0400 Received: from jawbreaker (mg-20425420-49.ricochet.net [204.254.20.49]) by rgate2.ricochet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA00602 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:58:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990906205745.013a9c80@pop.ricochet.net> X-Sender: synchris@pop.ricochet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 20:57:48 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Chris Conlon Subject: cruise control actuator for throttle by wire? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I saw a few days back where someone mentioned using a cruise control actuator to adjust idle speed. This is probably way silly, but I wondered if anyone has tried to use a cruise control actuator (and a feedback system, etc) to make a throttle by wire system? I imagine that the system would be too slow at least, and probably too inaccurate to boot... but I'd be interested in hearing anyone's experiences with any similar project. Thanks in advance, Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 6 23:38:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28854 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:38:56 -0400 Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28851 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:38:50 -0400 From: srgnt03@earthlink.net Received: from srgnt (1Cust129.tnt2.santa-clara.ca.da.uu.net [63.23.197.129]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA27963 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D48782.228A@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 20:33:22 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NSCP (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Wanted - Corrado or Golf VR6 BIN References: <199909061900.PAA23231@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Does anyone have original BIN files for VR6 or Corrado or Golf ECU ? > > Also, does anyone know how to get the fault codes from this ECU ? > > Alan Smith > I DO have a bunch of Electromotive TEC II bin files for a VR6 (including turbo maps). I DON'T have Motronic VR6 bin files (and not many people do!). The OBD I VR6 can "blink" out the fault codes using the check engine light. All you need is a jumper wire to bridge the data connectors for a couple seconds, and the codes will blink out. You should buy a Corrado Bentley Manual for OBD I VR6 stuff, or get the lame Golf/Jetta Bentley Manual for OBD II knowledge. BTW, you can't blink out OBD II codes like you can OBD II. Now, what are you doing Alan? I have extensive experience with the VR6, so I can offer advice. Jason '93 SLC From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 7 10:19:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02919 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:19:51 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA02916 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:19:50 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.106.139] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11OM5q-0006d2C for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <030d01bef93c$df1a4f70$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: RE: cruise control actuator for throttle by wire? Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:20:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I'm not at all sure if the cruise control actuator would be fast enough to handle the idle speed but it's always worth a try. The new SAABs are production vehicles with Throttle by Wire. What might also work quite well are Model Airplane Servos. Cheers, John >Subject: cruise control actuator for throttle by wire? > >I saw a few days back where someone mentioned using a cruise control >actuator to adjust idle speed. This is probably way silly, but I >wondered if anyone has tried to use a cruise control actuator (and >a feedback system, etc) to make a throttle by wire system? I imagine >that the system would be too slow at least, and probably too inaccurate >to boot... but I'd be interested in hearing anyone's experiences with >any similar project. > > Thanks in advance, > Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 7 13:26:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07642 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:23 -0400 Received: from benatar.snurgle.org (c266492-a.lakwod1.co.home.com [24.1.8.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07633 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:18 -0400 Received: from localhost (fluffy@localhost) by benatar.snurgle.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01414 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:15 -0400 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:15 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Drive By Wire In-Reply-To: <199909070900.FAA31869@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, DIY_EFI Digest wrote: > I saw a few days back where someone mentioned using a cruise control > actuator to adjust idle speed. This is probably way silly, but I > wondered if anyone has tried to use a cruise control actuator (and > a feedback system, etc) to make a throttle by wire system? I imagine I've considered doing it. But I decided not to because I can't really see what advantage you would gain from it, unless you want to have a semi-intelligent computer controlled throttle for some reason. The reason I wanted to do it would be to be able to have logging and assisted heel-and-toe for track driving. But you don't need that for logging and I didn't think it was worth it otherwise. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 7 19:01:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12103 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:01:33 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc2.on.home.com (ha1.rdc2.on.home.com [24.9.0.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12100 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:01:27 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc2.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP id <19990907230121.BLAG22922.mail.rdc2.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:01:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000201bef985$0812f7e0$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Clare Snyder" To: References: <199909071900.PAA09436@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Re: cruise control servo - fly by wire Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:57:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: DIY_EFI Digest To: Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 3:00 PM Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #511 > > DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, September 7 1999 Volume 04 : Number 511 > > > > In this issue: > > RE: cruise control actuator for throttle by wire? > Drive By Wire > > See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the > DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 07:20:02 -0700 > From: "John Dammeyer" > Subject: RE: cruise control actuator for throttle by wire? > I would think the electric cruise units might stand a chance - the vacuum, definitely NOT. From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 7 23:10:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14720 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:10:54 -0400 Received: from leviathan-tu1.mtco.com (leviathan-tu1.mtco.com [208.155.33.34]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA14717 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:10:53 -0400 Received: (qmail 8583 invoked from network); 8 Sep 1999 03:12:53 -0000 Received: from tnt4-149.mtco.com (HELO mtco.com) (206.69.130.149) by leviathan-tu1.mtco.com with SMTP; 8 Sep 1999 03:12:53 -0000 Message-ID: <37D5D42E.3BCB300A@mtco.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:12:46 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: O2 Sensor Voltage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Group, I made a 10 LED O2 display which worked fairly well but was hard to read as I used assorted LEDs, etc. and it flashed a lot. I built another using an LCD display from a cheap meter (0-200 mv), a 9v power supply (7809 chip etc.) and a 1/10 voltage divider (set of 1/4w resistors). It works from a 12V power supply and a 1.5V battery -- reads .1593 volts It has 4 wires - sensor in, sensor ground, +12 and ground. I wired it to my efi harness - replaced the LED display. I used a common ground (same as the LED one). The meter displays 1 indicating the voltage is greater than scale (> 2 volts). My volt meter shows +14v (ok here) and .4-.7 v on the O2 sensor (engine running). What's wrong? I thought O2 sensors read 0-1V. Is the meter too sensitive? Am I getting feedback somewhere? Do I need another ground? HELP!!! TIA. Tom From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 7 23:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14843 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:18:47 -0400 Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14840 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:18:46 -0400 From: ChvyRs92@aol.com Received: from ChvyRs92@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id jRMQ0DX1K3 (4116) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:18:10 EDT Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #510 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu stop sending this From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 09:37:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22210 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:37:38 -0400 Received: from mercury.mv.net (root@mercury.mv.net [199.125.85.40]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22206 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:37:36 -0400 Received: from DORA (darkstar.mv.com [199.125.78.23]) by mercury.mv.net (8.8.8/mem-971025) with SMTP id JAA19782 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:37:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990908093344.010eee68@199.125.85.40> X-Sender: darkstar-ma@199.125.85.40 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 09:33:44 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: O2 Sensor Voltage In-Reply-To: <199909080900.FAA19142@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu most of these digital meters must have an isolated power supply, that is the common power supply lead cannot be connected to the common measured voltage. At 05:00 AM 9/8/1999 -0400, you wrote: ------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:12:46 -0500 >From: Tom Sharpe >Subject: O2 Sensor Voltage > >Group, I made a 10 LED O2 display which worked fairly well but was hard >to read as I used assorted LEDs, etc. and it flashed a lot. I built >another using an LCD display from a cheap meter (0-200 mv), a 9v power >supply (7809 chip etc.) and a 1/10 voltage divider (set of 1/4w >resistors). It works from a 12V power supply and a 1.5V battery -- reads >.1593 volts > >It has 4 wires - sensor in, sensor ground, +12 and ground. I wired it to >my efi harness - replaced the LED display. I used a common ground (same >as the LED one). The meter displays 1 indicating the voltage is greater >than scale (> 2 volts). My volt meter shows +14v (ok here) and .4-.7 v >on the O2 sensor (engine running). > >What's wrong? I thought O2 sensors read 0-1V. Is the meter too >sensitive? Am I getting feedback somewhere? Do I need another ground? >HELP!!! TIA. Tom > >------------------------------ Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 11:54:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24415 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:54:34 -0400 Received: from exchmail.pns.anl.gov (exchmail.pns.anl.gov [146.139.156.118]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24411; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:54:30 -0400 Received: by exchmail.pns.anl.gov with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:54:55 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Kurek, Larry" To: "'Cl-F-Body'" , "'DIY EFI Main List'" , "'DIY-EFI GMECM'" , "'F-Body Classic'" , "'Fourth Gen'" , "'Third Gen'" Cc: "'lockitup@bright.net'" Subject: Bad news about Lambert Pontiac/GMC...Dal :( Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:54:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Guys: I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but I just spoke with Dal and he asked me to pass this info along to the lists I am on. Please forward to others as appropriate. It seems his dealership has had second thoughts on internet parts sales. For whatever reason, they weren't making as much as they wanted to, so they are shutting this off. Dal has said they will honor ALL pending requests/orders that are in the works, and will still take performance parts orders (to clear inventory). However, all other requests for "general" parts are out :( Dal has indicated that he will send a message out later with more details...so please don't swamp him with questions on this. All I can say is I wish Dal the best in whatever comes for him...he was a great guy and really helped a lot of us, myself included, a lot. TTYL! Larry From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 12:22:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25139 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:22:15 -0400 Received: from mail.info2000.net (IDENT:root@mail.info2000.net [204.144.228.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25136 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:22:14 -0400 From: cwagner@info2000.net Received: from default ([206.168.206.19]) by mail.info2000.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA04668 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:12:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199909081612.KAA04668@mail.info2000.net> To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:17:14 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: 730 locations X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anybody know where the web site is that had disasembled proms for GM? All I remember is taht it was at www.geocities.com/motorcity/shop. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 14:50:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27183 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:50:16 -0400 Received: from mailext12.compaq.com (mailext12.compaq.com [207.18.199.188]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27180; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:50:15 -0400 Received: by mailext12.compaq.com (Postfix, from userid 60001) id 90628578FE; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:50:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailext12.compaq.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailext12.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842D254602; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:50:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mailint02.im.hou.compaq.com([not looked up]) (peer mailint02.compaq.com[207.18.199.35]) by mailext12.compaq.com with ESMTP id rcv027812; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:49:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: by mailint02.im.hou.compaq.com (Postfix, from userid 60001) id 2B096BC4C9; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:50:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mail.compaq.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailint02.im.hou.compaq.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26751B2A43; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:50:11 -0500 (CDT) Received: from exchou-gh02.cca.cpqcorp.net([not looked up]) (peer exchou-gh02.cca.cpqcorp.net[16.110.248.202]) by mail.compaq.com with ESMTP id rcv109967; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:50:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: by EXCHOU-GH02 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2559.0) id ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:50:09 -0500 Message-ID: <0828A425DCABD111A25000805FEA11B40350F97B@exchou-prod0902.eng.hou.compaq.com> From: "Crabtree, Tony" To: "'fourth-gen@f-body.org'" , "'Cl-F-Body'" , "'DIY EFI Main List'" , "'DIY-EFI GMECM'" , "'F-Body Classic'" , "'Third Gen'" Cc: "'lockitup@bright.net'" Subject: RE: [4] Bad news about Lambert Pontiac/GMC...Dal :( Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:50:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2559.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Wopnder if Banks Chevy in New Jersey will still do what Dal used to do? 1 800 447-2107 Ask for Chris McCabe... He was giving free shipping and the usual 10% over cost deal on most parts... -----Original Message----- From: Kurek, Larry [mailto:lkurek@anl.gov] Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:55 AM To: 'Cl-F-Body'; 'DIY EFI Main List'; 'DIY-EFI GMECM'; 'F-Body Classic'; 'Fourth Gen'; 'Third Gen' Cc: 'lockitup@bright.net' Subject: [4] Bad news about Lambert Pontiac/GMC...Dal :( Guys: I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but I just spoke with Dal and he asked me to pass this info along to the lists I am on. Please forward to others as appropriate. It seems his dealership has had second thoughts on internet parts sales. For whatever reason, they weren't making as much as they wanted to, so they are shutting this off. Dal has said they will honor ALL pending requests/orders that are in the works, and will still take performance parts orders (to clear inventory). However, all other requests for "general" parts are out :( Dal has indicated that he will send a message out later with more details...so please don't swamp him with questions on this. All I can say is I wish Dal the best in whatever comes for him...he was a great guy and really helped a lot of us, myself included, a lot. TTYL! Larry -------------------------------------------------------------------- Subscription info can be found at http://www.f-body.org/lists.htm The list rules can be found at http://www.f-body.org/listrules.htm Failure to snip these lines will result in your post being lost. From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 17:15:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29896 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:15:10 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29893 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:15:08 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.106.43] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11Op3Y-0006f4C for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <03df01befa40$192ec8e0$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: re: O2 Sensor Voltage Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:20:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, I think you have to consider the input impedance of the measuring device when checking out the O2 sensor. Unlike parts available from semiconductor manufacturers there doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there about O2 sensors. However, measuring the voltage the way you are is fine as long as the load the meter presents isn't too low. Normally a standard digital meter is adequate. As for an isolated ground... this isn't really needed unless the O2 sensor is also still connected to the Engine Control Unit. This is because you don't know what the electronics inside the ECU looks like. Both sides may be isolated above ground so connecting one side to ground will do strange things. But as far as measuring the ECU output relative to ground, I use a standard LM324 operation amplifier to isolate the low input impedance of the uC A/D converter from the O2 sensor and once side of the O2 sensor is connected to ground. What I have also determined empirically is that 0.5V is 14.7:1 ratio and that 0.7 is about 14.3:1 and 0.3 is about 14.9:1 or thereabouts. Note too that some A/D devices (like your digital meter display module), may require a stable signal in order to create a valid reading. This is why some systems use a Sample and Hold (S/H) circuit to freeze the value while the A/D performs the conversion. Cheers, John From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 19:37:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA31430 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:37:24 -0400 Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31421; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:37:20 -0400 From: PHXSYS@aol.com Received: from PHXSYS@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id jLAHa13741 (3962); Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5aee0be9.25084d02@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:36:34 EDT Subject: Sequential Injection injector overlap? To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu, gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi I was wondering if anyone knows if the injector pulse widths overlap on sequential injection. The application is a Chrysler 3.3 v-6, 97 model year, but I am sure GM is similar. What I mean by overlap is, say injector 1 has fired, is it possible (or likely) for the next injector to fire while the previous injector is still on? Thanks Jon From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 20:32:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32357 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:32:09 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32353 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:32:06 -0400 From: xxalexx@popd.ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA06047 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:32:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909090032.TAA06047@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Received: from user-2iveapt.dialup.mindspring.com(165.247.43.61) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005997; Wed Sep 8 19:31:21 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:02:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re:Corrado or Golf VR6 BIN In-reply-to: <199909061900.PAA23231@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu If 16 pin obd2 connector, I can provide low cost tool. Alex http://www.obd-2.com >Wanted - Corrado or Golf VR6 BIN > Also, does anyone know how to get the fault codes from this ECU ? > > Alan Smith > From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 20:32:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA32367 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:32:14 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32364 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:32:11 -0400 From: xxalexx@popd.ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id TAA06065 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:32:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909090032.TAA06065@dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com> Received: from user-2iveapt.dialup.mindspring.com(165.247.43.61) by dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma005997; Wed Sep 8 19:31:40 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:02:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: O2 meter X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Check aquistion time on your digital meter. This probably a intergrator, with conversions time of 0.5 Hz. You could be getting a average and aliasing similiar to a DVM. Alex From diy_efi-owner Wed Sep 8 21:57:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00822 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:57:17 -0400 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz [203.96.92.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00819 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:57:15 -0400 Received: from xtra.co.nz ([203.96.104.8]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990909020005.YWGO3442178.mta1-rme@xtra.co.nz>; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:00:05 +1200 Message-ID: <37D70F9C.60783C3F@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:38:36 +1200 From: Steve Spiers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: toyota , "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Fuel pump Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi I am having probems with my 1600 with twin 40mm DCOE's I have bought this up before. It misses at high RPM I have checked everything and I am now just trying out theorys that people come up with. I checked the fuel supply into the carbs and it just dribbled out. What is an adiquate fuel flow rate and pressure that the pump should be supplying? Thanks Steve From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 06:52:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05363 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:52:59 -0400 Received: from mail.sun.ac.za (mail.sun.ac.za [146.232.128.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05359 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:52:51 -0400 Received: from ingweb.ing.sun.ac.za ([146.232.146.113]) by mail.sun.ac.za with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #1) id 11P1oj-0008AM-00 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:52:37 +0200 Received: by ingweb.ing.sun.ac.za with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:48:21 +0200 Message-ID: From: Putter C To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: O2 Sensor Voltage Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:55:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Remember that the O2 sensor has no driving capability, so you cannot put an resistive voltage devider on it. (As far as my knowledge reaches) So I suggest an OP-amp with an "Infinite" input impedance (Voltage folower) with the resistive devider after that. Carlo Putter Stellenbosch South Africa Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:12:46 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: O2 Sensor Voltage Group, I made a 10 LED O2 display which worked fairly well but was hard to read as I used assorted LEDs, etc. and it flashed a lot. I built another using an LCD display from a cheap meter (0-200 mv), a 9v power supply (7809 chip etc.) and a 1/10 voltage divider (set of 1/4w resistors). It works from a 12V power supply and a 1.5V battery -- reads .1593 volts It has 4 wires - sensor in, sensor ground, +12 and ground. I wired it to my efi harness - replaced the LED display. I used a common ground (same as the LED one). The meter displays 1 indicating the voltage is greater than scale (> 2 volts). My volt meter shows +14v (ok here) and .4-.7 v on the O2 sensor (engine running). What's wrong? I thought O2 sensors read 0-1V. Is the meter too sensitive? Am I getting feedback somewhere? Do I need another ground? HELP!!! TIA. Tom From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 08:47:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06329 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:47:51 -0400 Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06325; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:47:50 -0400 Received: from hpanlhc.an.hp.com (hpanlhc0.an.hp.com [15.63.115.100]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id IAA01649; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hp.com (hpantfr.an.hp.com [15.55.104.118]) by hpanlhc.an.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3 TIS Messaging 5.0) id IAA16706; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D7AC61.A892B3F3@hp.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:47:30 -0400 From: Dave Hempstead Organization: Hewlett Pachard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , "gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , "kenkelly@lucent.com" Subject: Modified PCM code to change RAM????? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I remember awhile back someone had changed their PCM code, to allow them to modify RAM variables via ALDL. I think they modified the Mode 4 command. If you are still out there, could you send me the mods you made in the code. I remember they were not too complex, and I'd like to do something similar to my 95 LT1 PCM. (I want to continue my reverse engineering of my PCM, and want to be able to modify ram on my bench setup, while running) Thanks, Dave Hempstead dave_hempstead@hp.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 09:21:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07376 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:21:41 -0400 Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07373; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:21:39 -0400 Received: from hpanlhc.an.hp.com (hpanlhc0.an.hp.com [15.63.115.100]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id FAA10807; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hp.com (hpantfr.an.hp.com [15.55.104.118]) by hpanlhc.an.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3 TIS Messaging 5.0) id IAA16706; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:47:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D7AC61.A892B3F3@hp.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:47:30 -0400 From: Dave Hempstead Organization: Hewlett Pachard X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , "gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" , "kenkelly@lucent.com" Subject: Modified PCM code to change RAM????? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I remember awhile back someone had changed their PCM code, to allow them to modify RAM variables via ALDL. I think they modified the Mode 4 command. If you are still out there, could you send me the mods you made in the code. I remember they were not too complex, and I'd like to do something similar to my 95 LT1 PCM. (I want to continue my reverse engineering of my PCM, and want to be able to modify ram on my bench setup, while running) Thanks, Dave Hempstead dave_hempstead@hp.com From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 09:29:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07660 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:29:10 -0400 Received: from smtp1.supernet.com (IDENT:qmailr@smtp1.desupernet.net [204.249.184.44]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA07656 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:29:09 -0400 Received: (qmail 26823 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 13:30:23 -0000 Received: from port5-2.ephrata.desupernet.net (HELO speedy) (208.170.178.209) by smtp1.supernet.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 13:30:23 -0000 Message-Id: <4.1.19990909091702.0091bc50@mail.desupernet.net> X-Sender: kgakuu@mail.desupernet.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:29:23 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Kihurani Gakuu Subject: Re:Sequential Injection overlap? In-Reply-To: <199909090900.FAA04368@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:36:34 EDT >From: PHXSYS@aol.com >Subject: Sequential Injection injector overlap? > >Hi > >I was wondering if anyone knows if the injector pulse widths overlap on >sequential injection. The application is a Chrysler 3.3 v-6, 97 model year, >but I am sure GM is similar. What I mean by overlap is, say injector 1 has >fired, is it possible (or likely) for the next injector to fire while the >previous injector is still on? > >Thanks >Jon I think it is likely. From the standpoint of a 4 cylinder engine, there would be an injection every 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation. At 6000 RPM an injector fires every 5 milliseconds. If the injector pulsewidth is greater than 5 ms, then it's safe to assume that there will be an overlap. I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on the RPM and the injector pulse width. Kih From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 10:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09083 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:33:44 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09080 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:33:42 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.106.32] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11P5G6-0006dHC for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <047701befad1$1c54a210$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: Re: Sequential Injection injector overlap? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:29:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:36:34 EDT >From: PHXSYS@aol.com >Subject: Sequential Injection injector overlap? > >Hi > >I was wondering if anyone knows if the injector pulse widths overlap on >sequential injection. The application is a Chrysler 3.3 v-6, 97 model year, >but I am sure GM is similar. What I mean by overlap is, say injector 1 has >fired, is it possible (or likely) for the next injector to fire while the >previous injector is still on? > >Thanks > >Jon Yes. ....... OK. I'll elaborate. ;-) Basic rules for injector selection are as small as possible in order to be able to accurately meter out the tiny quantities needed at idle. Otherwise you may find that the injector has been asked to open, then close before the pintle barely even moves off the seat. You can assume that an injector needs at least 1ms as a minimum pulse width. If the injector is too large idle will be rough and erratic. Down side of this is that the injector must then open before the intake valve opens in order to supply enough fuel and at full RPM the injector may be open for 80% of an engine cycle. ie: at 6500RPM (18ms) it could be open for 14ms so it actually turns on during or at the end of the the power stroke of the cylinder. Because each cylinder in a 4 cyl engine has a power stroke the injectors do indeed overlap and you might have 3 of them on at the same time at high revs. There are all sorts of tricks you can use to get around this rough idle. An extra throttle body injector for idle speeds is one. A dual set of injectors, 1 small and the other big much like the two barrel carburetor. Honda, in order to have a smooth idle and raw power at the top end uses a 14lb/hr injector for their 1600cc VTEC engines. They have a smooth idle because the CAM is mild mild mild until 4000RPM at which point the VTEC solenoid is activated and the intake profile goes to HOT HOT HOT. Even so, the 125HP engine can just barely make rated horsepower with 14lb/hr injectors and about an 88% duty cycle. In other words I don't believe the engine in the street configuration is rated for sustained full power at the top RPM without overheating the injectors. But it does run continuously at peak torque RPM of 5200RPM with about 50% injector duty cycle. Regards, John Dammeyer From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 17:08:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:08:28 -0400 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16794 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:08:24 -0400 Received: from sacec.iconzz.co.nz ([202.36.38.105]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA055190936911308 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:08:28 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: X-Sender: sacec@mail.ak.iconz.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:02:13 +1200 To: diy_efi-digest@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Roy Baker Subject: toyota, GM ecu, waste spark, Kalmaker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi guys I have a project that I need some help on. I have a Toyota 3SGE motor (4 cyl) in my club man 7 I am building. I have Kalmaker software from Australia and a 16183082 ECU (it says 808 on the case but it has the high speed chip). The car has separate throttle bodies one per cylinder. (made in USA) I need to interface the Toyota Distributor with the ECU or perhaps fit a waste spark system. The Toyota dis uses 24 tooth crank angle sensor, 2 TDC sensors (reluctor type) 1) I have built a hall effect sensor to fit to the front pulley of the engine with two sensors for a waste spark system. What I need now is a circuit to take these pulse and give them to the GM ECU and gate the return EST to fire the correct coil. Of all the GM ignition modules produced is there a version for a 4 cyl waste spark system that fits between the 4 wire of the GM ECU and hall effect sensors? 2) I could grind the lobes from the crank sensor and produce 4 pulse as per standard arrangement and use the 2 TDC markers to gate a 4 coil set up. Are there any web sites that can give me a few clues as to the types of circuits for the above two methods. My programming skills are very limited so I dismissed this approach once I found my STAMP was to slow to count the 24 pulses per rev when the dis was rotated by my electric drill at 2500 rpm! Any advice or help would be gratefully receive. This is my first posting sorry for the length. From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 17:08:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16808 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:08:31 -0400 Received: from mail.iconz.co.nz (oldmail.iconz.co.nz [202.14.100.36]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16796 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:08:25 -0400 Received: from sacec.iconzz.co.nz ([202.36.38.105]) by mail.iconz.co.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA055310936911310 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:08:30 +1200 (NZST) Message-Id: <199909092108.JAA055310936911310@mail.iconz.co.nz> X-Sender: sacec@mail.ak.iconz.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:03:14 +1200 To: diy_efi-digest@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Roy Baker Subject: O2 Sensor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does any one know how far from the exhaust valve the O2 Sensor can be placed. Due to restrictions I can place it : 1) About 1 pipe meter length from the motor (exhaust valve), 2) About 1.8 meters from the exhaust valve and after the muffler. This will however be within 200 mm of the open end of the exhaust pipe. Perhaps some power boat people or Hot Rod fans have tried different location? The Exhaust pipe is on the outside of the car and the reasons are aesthetics. From diy_efi-owner Thu Sep 9 20:44:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19315 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:44:27 -0400 Received: from smartt.com (root@ktk6.smartt.com [209.52.5.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19310 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:44:25 -0400 Received: from lowell (burn-mx07016.smartt.com [209.52.2.143]) by smartt.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA17872 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00ca01befb25$99073260$8f0234d1@lowell> From: "Lowell Foo" To: References: <199909091900.PAA14499@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Motec? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:42:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Anyone running a Motec box, drop me an email at lowell@smartt.com My car is a Talon with an M48 pro, wideband, adv tuning and logging, IEX and v5.11 software. From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 10 01:10:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA22471 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:10:15 -0400 Received: from rgate.ricochet.net (rgate1.ricochet.net [204.179.143.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22468 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:10:14 -0400 Received: from jawbreaker (mg-20425422-207.ricochet.net [204.254.22.207]) by rgate.ricochet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA24808 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:10:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990910010940.0142ce68@pop.ricochet.net> X-Sender: synchris@pop.ricochet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:09:43 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Chris Conlon Subject: Re: cruise control servo - fly by wire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:57:52 -0400 >From: "Clare Snyder" > >I would think the electric cruise units might stand a chance - the vacuum, >definitely NOT. Ok, I'll bite. Electric cruise control units? Is there an aftermarket (or cheap OE unit) I can get? The stock cruise control on the car is the vaccum type, so if I'm not gonna use that, the alternative has to be affordable (under $300 or so for the servo part). I had some ideas about rigging up 4-6 different solenoid valves, each with a different size restrictor, to be able to open and close a vaccum type unit at different speeds. It seems like a lot of work, though, and even so not likely to give good results. Thanks to everyone for all the help. I'm checking with one of my model airplane friends to see if they have any usable servo stuff. Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 10 09:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26926 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:30:19 -0400 Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26923 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:30:18 -0400 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id jHDYa06251 (4310) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:29:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:29:39 EDT Subject: O2 seor placement. Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #516 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 246 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I have put a heated O2 sensor way down on the header collector of a 396 Camaro with no problem at all. Was tempted to try it a few meters further back, but didn't wanna poke the hole in the new pipes. Don't know about the one-wire sensors. That might be tough. The heated 3 wire bosch should work without a problem. Also resists lead contamination better than one-wire, if that is an issue. HTH Mike V << Does any one know how far from the exhaust valve the O2 Sensor can be placed. Due to restrictions I can place it : 1) About 1 pipe meter length from the motor (exhaust valve), 2) About 1.8 meters from the exhaust valve and after the muffler. This will however be within 200 mm of the open end of the exhaust pipe. Perhaps some power boat people or Hot Rod fans have tried different location? The Exhaust pipe is on the outside of the car and the reasons are aesthetics. >> From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 10 09:56:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27200 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:56:39 -0400 Received: from guiness.etc.ec.gc.ca (fwncr1-1.ncr.ec.gc.ca [199.212.18.68]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27193 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:56:34 -0400 Received: from etc.ec.gc.ca (mcgonneg.etc.ec.gc.ca [131.235.127.59]) by guiness.etc.ec.gc.ca (8.9.1/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA01028 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:57:40 GMT Message-ID: <37D93895.A50F40D@etc.ec.gc.ca> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:57:57 -0700 From: Will McGonegal Organization: Environment Canada X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: cruise control servo - GM type References: <199909100900.FAA24174@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu For a while we used the stock GM electronic cruise control units to do throttle control while testing engines on dynamometers at our lab. The unit has a stepper motor (3 phase) and another solenoid to engage/disengage the stepper motor. This is handy if you need to disengage the stepper and close the throttle quickly. We didn't use the built in brains (which normally accepts a pulse speedometer input, resume, brake, coast, accel inputs), but tapped into the stepper directly to control the throttle cable. It worked OK, but was a bit slower than we really wanted. I don't think it costs much, around $200, but I'm not sure, Someone else purchased the units. The wiring diagram form a GM manual specifies what the input are if you choose to use the GM on board brains. Will McGonegal Emissions Research and Measurement Division Environment Canada From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 10 18:19:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02148 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:19:07 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA02145 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:19:06 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.106.146] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11PZ0U-0006eDC for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <05bc01befbdb$5dc936b0$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: Vapour Pressure Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:24:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All, Does anyone have the formulae for Vapor Pressure? If I assume RH is 75% and can measure the Air Temperature inside the intake manifold what is the calculation for vp? Thanks, John From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 10 21:05:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03672 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:05:38 -0400 Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03669 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:05:36 -0400 From: bjanesi@juno.com Received: (from bjanesi@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK7S5L3X; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:03:01 EDT To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:13:57 -0400 Subject: Volvo/Saab Bosch MAF swap for VAF Message-ID: <19990910.205410.-151221.4.bjanesi@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,6-10,12-17,19-25,28-32,35-36,46-47,52-57 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Some of you may recall that I've been investigating the possibility of swapping a Bosch MAF from a Saab or Volvo (they call it a AMM), for the stock Bosch VAF meter in my Merkur XR4Ti (Ford Sierra in the rest of the world). Here's what I've discovered about the two MAF on the bench: '87 Volvo 740 2.3 Turbo MAF Bosch p/n 0 280 212 007 (black plastic case) Pin #1 Ground (MAF signal - local) Pin #2 Ground for filament burn-off and CO idle adjustment (at PCM) Pin #3 MAF output (~1 - 5v) Pin #4 Filament burn-off (4v for 1 second after shut-down, controlled by PCM) Pin #5 12v Power input Pin #6 CO Idle adjustment '87 Saab 900 2.0 N/A MAF Bosch p/n 0 280 212 005 (aluminum case) Pin #1 Filament burn-off (4v fro 1 second after shut-down, controlled by PCM) Pin #2 12v Power input Pin #3 Ground for filament burn-off and CO idle adjustment (at PCM) Pin #4 Ground (MAF signal - local) Pin #5 MAF output (~1 - 5 v) Pin #6 CO idle adjustment For bench testing purposes, I was only using three circuits: The MAF output & ground and the 12v input (conveniently provided by a fresh battery). Here's what I discovered: Powered, still air Powered, maximum human breadth Volvo MAF 1.32 volts 2.70 volts Saab MAF 1.55 volts 3.95 volts Not surprisingly, the two MAFs are calibrated differently, with the N/A Saab MAF likely to max out (5v) with much less air flow than the Volvo turbo MAF. Now, back to my replacement objective... The stock Merkur VAF has a base starting output (powered but no air flow) of .5v, which is much less than either of these devices (relatively speaking). So I'm thinking about sticking an in-line POT on the output line to provide an adjustable base-line voltage and match it to the .5v that the PCM is looking for from the stock VAF. I realize matching the base-line voltage does not guarantee a match across the full range, but it's a starting point. What I'd really like to do is find a way to use the built-in CO idle adjustment screw, since it will otherwise go un-used since this function is not supported by the Ford PCM. If it turns out that adjusting the MAF output in a monolithic fashion can not closely reproduce the original VAF output, I'll have to look at a "black box" solution from vendors such as Split Second or Pro-M which provide the ability to have 2 or 3 adjustments to the MAF depending upon the flow. I'm not smart enough to figure that one out myself. Any comments, corrections, open discusions, etc are welcome. Brad Anesi (bjanesi@juno.com) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 10 22:09:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04210 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:09:12 -0400 Received: from wired.com (get.wired.com [204.62.131.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04203 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:09:10 -0400 Received: from excalibur.hotwired.com (excalibur.hotwired.com [204.62.131.55]) by wired.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA30255 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:09:09 -0700 Received: (nobody@localhost) by excalibur.hotwired.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.6.12) id TAA21644; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909110209.TAA21644@excalibur.hotwired.com> X-Authentication-Warning: excalibur.hotwired.com: nobody set sender to nobody@wired.com using -f From: xxalexx To: diy_efi Subject: You got mail from Wired News Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu xxalexx sent you this message and story from Wired News. need injector number for this engine W I R E D N E W S - - - - - - - - - - The Little Engine that Might by Leander Kahney Taking on the world's giant energy business, a tiny startup is set to launch an engine that requires no fuel, produces no pollution, and is free to run. Naturally, the experts think it's too good to be true -- although they can't exactly say why. See also: Plasma-Powered Trip to the Stars Entropy Systems, a seven-person startup based in Youngstown, Ohio, is scheduled to launch the Entropy engine early next year, said the technology's inventor, Sanjay Amin, a mechanical engineer and co-founder of the company. The Entropy engine acts like a heat sponge, absorbing heat in the atmosphere and converting it to power, Amin said. Since it consumes no fossil fuels, nuclear fuels, or electrical power, it produces no emissions, directly or indirectly. Its only byproduct is cold air. Initially, the technology will be used to create an outboard motor for small pleasure boats, simply because it's the easiest market to break into, Amin said. But as it is developed, the technology could be used to run refrigerators, air conditioners, generators -- even automobiles. "There's no reason it can't power a car," Amin said. So far, Amin has built a prototype, which he said generates one-tenth of one horsepower. The outboard motor -- yet to be built -- will produce between two and three horsepower. It will be roughly the same size as a conventional outboard motor and only marginally more expensive. But, apart from routine maintenance and lubrication, the engine will be free to run. Named after the unit in physics that describes the amount of available energy in a system, the Entropy engine consists of a central chamber, filled with air, that has a piston in the center, Amin said. The engine operates on a cycle. First, a starter motor spins the engine to a high speed, which pushes the gas to the edge of the central chamber, as in a centrifuge. As the gas moves to the edge, it creates a partial vacuum in the center that draws the piston out, compressing the gas. In the second part of the cycle, the engine is slowed, and the gas redistributes itself throughout the chamber, which increases the pressure on the piston. Heat trapped in the gas is converted into the energy that moves the piston, which cools the air in the engine chamber. The engine will run year-round in any climate, even in sub-zero temperatures. Although it operates better in warmer climates, it will work in any environment above absolute zero (minus 273 degrees Celsius). "In physical terms, even ice has a lot of heat," Amin said. Amin claims to have patented the technology in the United States, Australia, and Europe. He said he has published a book on thermodynamics and in 1996 received an Engineer of the Year award from the American Society of Engineers of Indian Origin. Always obsessed with engines, Amin built steam engines as a teenager. He has devoted more than a decade to the Entropy engine. He began by looking at gravity as a power source, which eventually led to the idea of using atmospheric heat. The technology was developed in part when Amin was studying at Youngstown State University, which helped launch the fledgling company. Bill Dunn, an associate professor of mechanical engineering at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, said that while he hasn't seen the engine in action, he has examined the materials on Entropy's Web site. He said the logic appears sound, but the outcome -- free power -- doesn't make sense. "It's the end result -- that you can create power from heat at ambient temperature -- that flies in the face of the basic laws of physics," said Dunn, who acknowledges that he hasn't devoted time to figure out why the engine shouldn't work. "To track down where his thinking may be flawed is a difficult thing to do," Dunn said. In Amin's favor, Dunn noted that he has attracted backing from "some very intelligent people." Hedging his bets, Dunn said breakthrough technologies have frequently been greeted with skepticism. "Every time someone suggests something like this, you should at least give them the benefit of an open mind." Iain MacGill, an energy campaigner at Greenpeace, said that because vehicle pollution makes up about a third of US greenhouse gas emissions, a pollution-free engine would be an incredible breakthrough. Nevertheless, it sounds to him like fiction. "It's got a flavor of 'too-good-to-be-true' about it," he said. "I'm a wee bit skeptical." - - - - - - - - - - W I R E D N E W S Wired News is a real-time news service offering news briefs and in-depth reporting on politics, business, culture, and technology. For the most up-to-date coverage on the digital world, go to ... http://www.wired.com/news/ You are receiving this email because a friend or acquaintance sent it to you. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, please contact the sender, and not Wired News. Copyright 1999 Wired Digital, Inc. From diy_efi-owner Fri Sep 10 22:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04380 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:29:34 -0400 Received: from mail.rdc2.on.home.com (ha1.rdc2.on.home.com [24.9.0.15]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04377 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:29:33 -0400 Received: from cr929909a ([24.112.22.40]) by mail.rdc2.on.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP id <19990911022927.KGXN7242.mail.rdc2.on.home.com@cr929909a> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:29:27 -0700 Message-ID: <002901befbfd$857704e0$28167018@ktchnr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Clare Snyder" To: References: <199909100900.FAA24174@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #516 fly by wire Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:29:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: cruise control servo - fly by wire > > >Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:57:52 -0400 > >From: "Clare Snyder" > > > >I would think the electric cruise units might stand a chance - the vacuum, > >definitely NOT. > > Ok, I'll bite. Electric cruise control units? Is there an aftermarket > (or cheap OE unit) I can get? The stock cruise control on the car is > the vaccum type, so if I'm not gonna use that, the alternative has to > be affordable (under $300 or so for the servo part). > The late model Ford Aerostar uses it, I suspect a lot of other fords as well. Possibly others. Toyota used one a few years ago, not sure of current usage, From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 09:57:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08527 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:57:55 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08524 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:57:54 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA20656 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:57:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909111357.IAA20656@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from user-2ivead0.dialup.mindspring.com(165.247.41.160) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020644; Sat Sep 11 08:57:44 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Alex C. Peper" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:27:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Vapour Pressure In-reply-to: <199909110900.FAA06799@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Good set of humidity calculations for engines is in code of federal regulation title 40 section 86.344-79. available in public university. also has water-vapour dry volume calculation alex > Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:24:29 -0700 > From: "John Dammeyer" > Subject: Vapour Pressure > > Hi All, > > Does anyone have the formulae for Vapor Pressure? If I assume RH is 75% and can > measure the Air Temperature inside the intake manifold what is the calculation > for vp? > > Thanks, > > John > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 09:58:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08539 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:58:24 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.10]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08536 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:58:23 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id IAA20682 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:58:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909111358.IAA20682@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com> Received: from user-2ivead0.dialup.mindspring.com(165.247.41.160) by dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma020644; Sat Sep 11 08:57:46 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Alex C. Peper" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:27:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Volvo/Saab Bosch MAF swap for VAF In-reply-to: <199909110900.FAA06799@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I made some controllers for Bosch Hot Wire and Bosch Vane with PIC 73 Used built in 8 bit converter and 10 bit PWM output direct connection on hot wire.( used voltage divider and opamp on 10 V. vane meter.) Was used as O2 sensor adaptive feed back control, with 12 point internal correction table. Also had prototype to load EEPROM values and rpm input. You could look into adjustable gain opamps and DAC's Alex > Some of you may recall that I've been investigating the possibility of > swapping a Bosch MAF from a Saab or Volvo (they call it a AMM), for the > stock Bosch VAF meter in my Merkur XR4Ti (Ford Sierra in the rest of the > world). Here's what I've discovered about the two MAF on the bench: > > '87 Volvo 740 2.3 Turbo MAF Bosch p/n 0 280 212 007 (black plastic > case) > > Pin #1 Ground (MAF signal - local) > Pin #2 Ground for filament burn-off and CO idle adjustment (at PCM) > Pin #3 MAF output (~1 - 5v) > Pin #4 Filament burn-off (4v for 1 second after shut-down, controlled by > PCM) > Pin #5 12v Power input > Pin #6 CO Idle adjustment > > '87 Saab 900 2.0 N/A MAF Bosch p/n 0 280 212 005 (aluminum case) > > Pin #1 Filament burn-off (4v fro 1 second after shut-down, controlled by > PCM) > Pin #2 12v Power input > Pin #3 Ground for filament burn-off and CO idle adjustment (at PCM) > Pin #4 Ground (MAF signal - local) > Pin #5 MAF output (~1 - 5 v) > Pin #6 CO idle adjustment > > For bench testing purposes, I was only using three circuits: The MAF > output & ground and the 12v input (conveniently provided by a fresh > battery). Here's what I discovered: > Powered, still air Powered, maximum human breadth > Volvo MAF 1.32 volts 2.70 volts > Saab MAF 1.55 volts 3.95 volts > > Not surprisingly, the two MAFs are calibrated differently, with the N/A > Saab MAF likely to max out (5v) with much less air flow than the Volvo > turbo MAF. > > Now, back to my replacement objective... The stock Merkur VAF has a base > starting output (powered but no air flow) of .5v, which is much less than > either of these devices (relatively speaking). So I'm thinking about > sticking an in-line POT on the output line to provide an adjustable > base-line voltage and match it to the .5v that the PCM is looking for > from the stock VAF. I realize matching the base-line voltage does not > guarantee a match across the full range, but it's a starting point. What > I'd really like to do is find a way to use the built-in CO idle > adjustment screw, since it will otherwise go un-used since this function > is not supported by the Ford PCM. > > If it turns out that adjusting the MAF output in a monolithic fashion can > not closely reproduce the original VAF output, I'll have to look at a > "black box" solution from vendors such as Split Second or Pro-M which > provide the ability to have 2 or 3 adjustments to the MAF depending upon > the flow. I'm not smart enough to figure that one out myself. > > Any comments, corrections, open discusions, etc are welcome. > > Brad Anesi > (bjanesi@juno.com) From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 10:53:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08934 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:37 -0400 Received: from benatar.snurgle.org (c266492-a.lakwod1.co.home.com [24.1.8.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08931 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (fluffy@localhost) by benatar.snurgle.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA14157 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:29 -0400 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:29 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Wired foo In-Reply-To: <199909110900.FAA06799@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, DIY_EFI Digest wrote: > Naturally, the experts think it's too good to be true -- although they > can't exactly say why. I don't know why they can't. I can; it violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy has to increase. That engine decreases entropy by converting heat energy into rotational energy. The engine has to output entropy somewhere. My guess would be that the problem lies with all the accelerating and decelerating that this engine is supposed to do. How are they going to arrange for that? From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 12:30:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09805 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:30:10 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA09802 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:30:08 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.107.13] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11Pq2L-0006deC for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001b01befc73$c9d06930$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: Measuring MAF Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:35:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I'll put in my two cents here. Don't know how clever you are with electronics but if you purchase a differential pressure transducer you can build a simple flow meter by measuring the difference in pressure at two points. Create a supply tube that has a restriction and measure the pressure at the restriction and the point before the restriction. (venturi in effect). As long as you know the temperature of the air flow and the size of the tubes you can calculate the airflow. Then, just use a DC powered fan with a variable power supply to push air through this pipe into the MAF sensor. Alternatively, you might be able to rent a hot wire anemometer from an air conditioning firm and if you place that in the air stream of your air supply you can also calibrate the MAF sensor. I'm willing to bet that once you get a few accurate set points you can probably extrapolate the entire curve. BTW. Thanks for the info on the SAAB. I have a 900 Turbo. Regards, John >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:13:57 -0400 >From: bjanesi@juno.com >Subject: Volvo/Saab Bosch MAF swap for VAF [snip] > >If it turns out that adjusting the MAF output in a monolithic fashion can >not closely reproduce the original VAF output, I'll have to look at a >"black box" solution from vendors such as Split Second or Pro-M which >provide the ability to have 2 or 3 adjustments to the MAF depending upon >the flow. I'm not smart enough to figure that one out myself. > >Any comments, corrections, open discusions, etc are welcome. > >Brad Anesi >(bjanesi@juno.com) > From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 14:00:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10621 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:00:29 -0400 Received: from mail.fwi.com (mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.144]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10618 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:00:28 -0400 Received: from jhaines.fwi.com (decatur-line-36.fwi.com [209.84.174.101]) by mail.fwi.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA13491 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:00:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199909111800.NAA13491@mail.fwi.com> X-Sender: jhaines@mail.fwi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:36:32 -0500 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Jason Haines Subject: electronic trans controller In-Reply-To: <199908060900.FAA01232@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I know this was an old post but someone asked about stand alone electronic transmission controllers (in this case for the 4L60E). I am not sure how easy it would be to make this work but the diesel truck transmission controllers controls the 4L80E transmission. We have used this in many conversion applications to control this very heavy duty transmission. The controller is as follows: 16147609 GM diesel truck 1991-1993 6.5L diesel A sample calibration is as follows 16173828BACZ?CK, 1 ton1992-1993AT6.5L D, "F" Also, DFI/Accel had an aftermarket controller available but only a few made it to the public before they stopped production. FelPro then came out with a controller and I am not sure if it is still available. Jason From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 14:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10939 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:59:48 -0400 Received: from rgate.ricochet.net (rgate1.ricochet.net [204.179.143.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10936 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:59:47 -0400 Received: from jawbreaker (mg-20425422-100.ricochet.net [204.254.22.100]) by rgate.ricochet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA26112; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:59:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990911145912.006ecac8@pop.ricochet.net> X-Sender: synchris@pop.ricochet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:59:16 -0400 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Chris Conlon Subject: diy fly by wire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Ok, I'll bite. Electric cruise control units? Is there an aftermarket >> (or cheap OE unit) I can get? The stock cruise control on the car is > >The late model Ford Aerostar uses it, I suspect a lot of other fords as >well. Possibly others. Toyota used one a few years ago, not sure of current Thank you to everyone who helped with info about cruise control stuff. Now I have plenty of leads and feel pretty sure I can get something to do the job. One thing in my favor is that I don't have to use the stock TB or actuator cam. So, if the actuator has a longer, slower throw than what I wanted, I can make up for it with a different TB cam and spring. As for safety, the first line is in the feedback loop that keeps the TB lined up with the position commanded by the right foot. If the TB is too far out of sync for too long (200-300 msec-ish), fuel and spark are cut. When the PWM fuel pressure system is put in, the fuel pump will be cut off also. The second line of safety is a switch so the driver can cut off fuel/spark/fuel pump. As you might guess there's a whole lot of development going on all at once in this project, and I'd really rather not have it get away from me. Also by conincidence I was looking at some Eaton info and they have what is basically a small TB, actuated by a vaccum/diaphragm type of thing. Sort of like a very simple version of the cruise control actuator system. $85 for the generic one, TB bore about 1.5" IIRC. Thanks again, Chris C. From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 16:47:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11916 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:47:36 -0400 Received: from wolfenet.com (root@smtp1.wolfenet.com [207.178.61.5]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11913 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:47:35 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22703 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:47:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id NAA27570 for diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909112047.NAA27570@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Wired foo To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:47:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "William T Wilson" at Sep 11, 99 10:53:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, DIY_EFI Digest wrote: > > Naturally, the experts think it's too good to be true -- although they > > can't exactly say why. > I don't know why they can't. I can; it violates the Second Law of > Thermodynamics. Entropy has to increase. That engine decreases entropy > by converting heat energy into rotational energy. The engine has to > output entropy somewhere. You can convert heat energy into rotational energy easily enough... it's what you car engine does. There is a lot of heat energy to convert though. I suspect that there isn't enough heat energy in ambient air to drive it through their system and have any energy left over. In fact, I'd guess you would have to input energy. Imagine if it did work - a self-powered refrigerator! Orin. From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 19:30:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12564 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:30:01 -0400 Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12559 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:30:00 -0400 From: bjanesi@juno.com Received: (from bjanesi@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK9767TD; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:29:33 EDT To: xxalexx@popd.ix.netcom.com Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:53:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Bosch MAF for VAF swap Message-ID: <19990911.192049.-31557.1.bjanesi@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,6-7,12-13,15-32 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Alex- Thanks for the response. Although I have a basic understanding of electronics, I'm not an electrical design engineer, so this is probably a bit over my head. Tying the MAF output to the O2 sensor output does sound interesting though, but what about cold start-up when running open loop? I guess there would have to be a default setting for open loop. I know the Split Second Co. has a control box with 3 different pots; I believe one sets the base idle, one sets mid-range, and the 3rd sets voltage at maximum air-flow. Fine tuning is done primarily via observation of an O2 sensor meter, so it is a manual approach to what it sounds like you have done automatically with the adaptive feedback. Any chance you have a schematic on any of this? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks again, Brad (brad.anesi@netiq.com <--- use this address if sending attachments) ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:27:41 +0000 From: "Alex C. Peper" Subject: Re: Volvo/Saab Bosch MAF swap for VAF I made some controllers for Bosch Hot Wire and Bosch Vane with PIC 73 Used built in 8 bit converter and 10 bit PWM output direct connection on hot wire.( used voltage divider and opamp on 10 V. vane meter.) Was used as O2 sensor adaptive feed back control, with 12 point internal correction table. Also had prototype to load EEPROM values and rpm input. You could look into adjustable gain opamps and DAC's Alex ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From diy_efi-owner Sat Sep 11 19:30:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12576 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:30:15 -0400 Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12573 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:30:13 -0400 From: bjanesi@juno.com Received: (from bjanesi@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK9767R5; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:29:33 EDT To: johnd@autoartisans.com Cc: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:51:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Bosch MAF for VAF Message-ID: <19990911.192049.-31557.0.bjanesi@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,8-9,11-20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34-36,38,40,42-48 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the input John- I think the problem is not so much knowing the flow, as it is correctly adjusting the hot-wire voltage output over a range of flow conditions to match what is normally delivered to the PCM by the stock VAF meter. Monitoring via an air-fuel (O2 sensor) meter, is probably a better way to correctly adjust this, but I suspect a single static adjustment will only provide a match at one flow setting, and not the entire range (but I don't yet have any specific data to back up that statement). FWIW, I do have an extra pressure transducer pulled from an APC-equipped Saab turbo. What year is your 900? Brad Anesi ----------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:35:41 -0700 From: "John Dammeyer" Subject: Measuring MAF Hi, I'll put in my two cents here. Don't know how clever you are with electronics but if you purchase a differential pressure transducer you can build a simple flow meter by measuring the difference in pressure at two points. Create a supply tube that has a restriction and measure the pressure at the restriction and the point before the restriction. (venturi in effect). As long as you know the temperature of the air flow and the size of the tubes you can calculate the airflow. Then, just use a DC powered fan with a variable power supply to push air through this pipe into the MAF sensor. Alternatively, you might be able to rent a hot wire anemometer from an air conditioning firm and if you place that in the air stream of your air supply you can also calibrate the MAF sensor. I'm willing to bet that once you get a few accurate set points you can probably extrapolate the entire curve. BTW. Thanks for the info on the SAAB. I have a 900 Turbo. Regards, John ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 12 15:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20433 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:14:56 -0400 Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20430 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:14:54 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA09316 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:14:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909121914.OAA09316@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Received: from user-2ivea2h.dialup.mindspring.com(165.247.40.81) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009276; Sun Sep 12 14:14:22 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Alex C. Peper" To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:43:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: MAF offset In-reply-to: <199909120900.FAA17302@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu I cut the MAF line and placed a A/D - micro. - D/A in the line. This is known as intercept method. You can modify the input to what ever output you want. O2 voltage, RPM, and water temp were other inputs, but only one output. I am not sure what would happen if you tapped the O2 line into the MAF. For cold start and safety I used a normally closed bypass relay I might be doing some more work on this in future, if you need a simple offset box for small donation let me know. Alex > Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:53:55 -0400 > From: bjanesi@juno.com > Subject: Re: Bosch MAF for VAF swap > > Hi Alex- > > Thanks for the response. Although I have a basic understanding of > electronics, I'm not an electrical design engineer, so this is probably a > bit over my head. Tying the MAF output to the O2 sensor output does > sound interesting though, but what about cold start-up when running open > loop? I guess there would have to be a default setting for open loop. > > I know the Split Second Co. has a control box with 3 different pots; I > believe one sets the base idle, one sets mid-range, and the 3rd sets > voltage at maximum air-flow. Fine tuning is done primarily via > observation of an O2 sensor meter, so it is a manual approach to what it > sounds like you have done automatically with the adaptive feedback. > > Any chance you have a schematic on any of this? Any info would be > appreciated. > > Thanks again, > > Brad (brad.anesi@netiq.com <--- use this address if sending attachments) > Alex C Peper http://www.obd-2.com From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 12 17:36:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21742 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:36:34 -0400 Received: from benatar.snurgle.org (c266492-a.lakwod1.co.home.com [24.1.8.253]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21739 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:36:32 -0400 Received: from localhost (fluffy@localhost) by benatar.snurgle.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA16721 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:36:24 -0400 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:36:24 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #520 In-Reply-To: <199909120900.FAA17302@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, DIY_EFI Digest wrote: > > I don't know why they can't. I can; it violates the Second Law of > > Thermodynamics. Entropy has to increase. That engine decreases entropy > > by converting heat energy into rotational energy. The engine has to > > output entropy somewhere. > > You can convert heat energy into rotational energy easily enough... > it's what you car engine does. There is a lot of heat energy to > convert though. Yeah, but the car engine does this by starting with comparatively well ordered heat energy. The air inside the combustion chamber is hot, the air outside is not. After one complete power stroke (all 4 cycles from intake to exhaust) suddenly the air outside the combustion chamber is a little hotter and the air inside has all been pumped out. Some of that energy is converted to rotation, but some of it just contributed to global warming. Entropy has increased and the second law is happy. This engine does the reverse. It takes regular air, magically extracts the heat from it, then turns it into rotational energy and blows out the cold air. Entropy has decreased because you've taken unordered heat energy and converted it not only into rotation but into ordered heat, too. That's against the rules. > I suspect that there isn't enough heat energy in ambient air > to drive it through their system and have any energy left over. There's tons of heat energy in ambient air. You just can't use it for anything other than heating stuff. :} From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 12 19:29:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22615 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:29:02 -0400 Received: from mailrelay4.sni.net (mailrelay4.sni.net [199.117.160.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22610 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:29:01 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay4.sni.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA25551 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:39:00 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:40:49 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #518 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:24:29 -0700 >From: "John Dammeyer" >Subject: Vapour Pressure > >Hi All, > >Does anyone have the formulae for Vapor Pressure? If I assume RH is 75% >and can >measure the Air Temperature inside the intake manifold what is the calculation >for vp? > >Thanks, > >John You need some combination of psychrometric charts or GOOD steam tables. A good steam table will include a section giving the equations upon which the values stated in the tables are based. If RH is 75%, the VP will be 75% of the VP (partial pressure of H2O vapor) at saturated conditions for that temp. Greg From diy_efi-owner Sun Sep 12 19:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22713 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:38:58 -0400 Received: from mailrelay4.sni.net (mailrelay4.sni.net [199.117.160.9]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22709 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:38:57 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.1] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay4.sni.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04611 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:04:56 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:07:41 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #520 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, September 12 1999 Volume 04 : Number 520 > > > >In this issue: > > Re: Wired foo > Re: Bosch MAF for VAF swap > Re: Bosch MAF for VAF > >See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the >DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:47:32 -0700 (PDT) >From: Orin Eman >Subject: Re: Wired foo > >> On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, DIY_EFI Digest wrote: > >> > Naturally, the experts think it's too good to be true -- although they >> > can't exactly say why. > >> I don't know why they can't. I can; it violates the Second Law of >> Thermodynamics. Entropy has to increase. That engine decreases entropy >> by converting heat energy into rotational energy. The engine has to >> output entropy somewhere. > >You can convert heat energy into rotational energy easily enough... >it's what you car engine does. There is a lot of heat energy to >convert though. > >I suspect that there isn't enough heat energy in ambient air >to drive it through their system and have any energy left over. >In fact, I'd guess you would have to input energy. > >Imagine if it did work - a self-powered refrigerator! > >Orin. > The second law of thermo is the only law of physics that hasn't changed since the time of Newton. Somehow, I doubt that this guy has found a glitsch in what Sir Isaac wrote! If he has--more power to him, he will surely be way wealthier than Bill Gate$!! If not, his investors will be somewhat poorer, and angrier. I'm not gonna hold by breath to see the thing work as claimed! Greg From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 13 11:14:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA30836 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:14:50 -0400 Received: from nt5.ains.net.au (NT5.ains.net.au [202.61.243.2]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30833 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:14:47 -0400 Received: from injec.com ([210.9.53.188]) by nt5.ains.net.au (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 9-31337L) with ESMTP id AAA183 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:18:03 +1000 Message-ID: <37DD14BF.F455E367@injec.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:14:07 +1000 From: injec@nt5.ains.net.au (Phil) Organization: Injec Racing X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: magically extracts the heat References: <199909130900.FAA27208@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All, This one is fun isn't it ? > This engine does the reverse. It takes regular air, magically extracts > the heat from it, then turns it into rotational energy and blows out the > cold air. Entropy has decreased because you've taken unordered heat... The problem lends itself to a temperature gradient solution. For "flow" to occur we need a temperature differential between the two environments. While it is clear that low level heat is available in the atmosphere for conversion to energy of another variety the problem remains with exactly where the low energy state is to be found. If within the rotating machine there is a zone of infinite negative pressure or lower temp the "flow" will be unidirectional. A perfect perpetual motion machine. In this case there is also a component of "exhaust" that is sub normal in it's heat energy value. This would cause the flow to be around the "outside" of the machine. The reason is simple. If you extract some heat energy from a volume of air it will loose volume causing a pressure differential against the higher energy surroundings. thus the machine is actually doing better than unity with an amount of electrical energy to spare. Shirley it would be easier to spin the pump in the air conditioner backwards and then have it produce rather than consume energy. P.S If there is still a swag of silly money chasing this project I retract everything I said and would of course make myself available for a senior consultancy. Regards Phil Lamovie Injec Racing (a swag is a large aussie bag) From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 13 12:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA32065 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:46:12 -0400 Received: from atlrel1.hp.com (atlrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.210]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32062 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:46:11 -0400 Received: from postal.sr.hp.com (root@postal.sr.hp.com [15.4.46.173]) by atlrel1.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id MAA07455 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from banshee.sr.hp.com (root@banshee.sr.hp.com [15.4.45.18]) by postal.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id JAA08953 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sr.hp.com (claybu@prowler.sr.hp.com [15.4.55.119]) by banshee.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id JAA23473 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD2A4E.85477E49@sr.hp.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:46:07 -0700 From: "Clay Buccellato (Anthony)" Organization: RF sources X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; HP-UX B.10.20 9000/782) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Low impedance waste spark coils? References: <199908210900.FAA14895@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know of a good source for hot, low impedance, distributorless coils? They're not much different from standard coils, except for having two spark plugs in series on each side of the secondary windings. I'm also interested in a four-channel capacitive discharge driver for the coils, such as MSD's DSI-4, only with more current handling capability. I think the MSD is a bit limited, and cannot drive the really hot coils, just like their old 6AL box. As far as I can tell, the only coil packs currently available are the factory units from Ford and Chevy. I've been told that they suffer from insulation breakdown on the secondary side, if you try and drive them very hard. I'm looking for the waste-spark equivalent of the Crane PS-92, or MSD pro-power. I want lightning bolts :) I'm putting together an EFI setup for a BBC using the Speed-Pro ECU. I don't want to spend good money buying old technology (distributor), and I need an ignition system. I've checked with the big three, MSD, Crane, and Jacobs. Jacobs claims to have prototypes, but thats about it. Any ideas? -- -Clay From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 13 15:52:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03052 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:52:13 -0400 Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03043 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:52:00 -0400 Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust19.tnt11.denver.co.da.uu.net [63.14.42.19]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25858; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:51:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD5541.BB561959@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:49:21 -0600 From: Scott Beltz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "50racing@chariott.com" <50racing@chariott.com>, FORD EEC LIST , "50natics@lists.best.com" <50natics@lists.best.com>, "svt@olympiakos.com" , "diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Bailey AFM-1 wide band O2 system for tuning (SpeedBrain) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry for the cross post but I need input from anyone who has experience with wide band 02 systems especially the Bailey AFM-1. I am thinking about buying one because here in Denver the Dyno shops do not have a wide band systems. They only use the dynos to check for horsepower improvements. I have recently purchased a Speedbrain to fine tune my supercharged 5.8 SN95. I have been using Chris Johnson's chips for awhile but wanted more control of the system without having to re-burn and change chips. I have heard that there are some private individuals here in Denver that have wide bands for tuning there own cars but have not been able to talk with them yet. My question is with the quality of the Bailey AFM-1. This product is selling for about $1100 while the Lambda Meter and others are over $5000. Some information on the Bailey can be found on APE's WEB site. If anyone has experience with these Wide band systems please let me know what your thought are. I do not want to spend $5000+ for a system that with be used for my private use but also do not want to spend $1100 for a POS. Any help will be appreciated, Thanks Scott Beltz From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 13 16:49:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04277 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:49:33 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04274 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:49:31 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.106.78] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11Qd2V-0006clC for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:49:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012f01befe2a$5f21e150$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: Re: Low impedance waste spark coils? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:55:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >From: "Clay Buccellato (Anthony)" >Subject: Low impedance waste spark coils? >As far as I can tell, the only coil packs currently available are the >factory units from Ford and Chevy. I've been told that they suffer from >insulation breakdown on the secondary side, if you try and drive them >very hard. I'm looking for the waste-spark equivalent of the Crane >PS-92, or MSD pro-power. I want lightning bolts :) We're currently using the Ford units for aircraft applications and haven't yet had problem that we are aware of. Where did you hear that the insulation breaks down on the secondary side? I'm currently dumping a 1.5uFd Cap sitting at 225V into it through a triac. Works great. Regards, John From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 13 17:46:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05025 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:46:14 -0400 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05022 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:46:13 -0400 From: A70Duster@aol.com Received: from A70Duster@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id jRAHa02415 (4229) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:45:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:45:46 EDT Subject: Re: Vapor Pressure of Water To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu id RAA05023 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu << Does anyone have the formulae for Vapor Pressure? If I assume RH is 75% and can measure the Air Temperature inside the intake manifold what is the calculation for vp? >> I feel I have a good contribution for this one. >From steam tables, I calculated a forth order polynomial fitted curve for the pressures of saturated water vapor between 40 �F and 100 �F at 14.7 PSI. Partial Pressure of Water Vapor = (0.0672 - 0.0022175 * TEMP + 1.1065E-04 * TEMP ^ 2 - 8.7841E-07 * TEMP ^ 3 + 8.7671E-09 * TEMP ^ 4) To find the partial pressure (in PSI) of water vapor with known relative humidity, put in the temperature (�F) and multiply by the relative humidity value. Vapor pressure of water (below 100 �F) should never be over 1 PSI at STP. I have an executable program that determines relative humidity and oxygen to water ratio. The user needs to input a dry bulb temperature, wet bulb temperature, and atmospheric pressure. If interested, please email me back. From diy_efi-owner Mon Sep 13 21:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA07120 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:56:14 -0400 Received: from virazon.baps.bom.gov.au (virazon.baps.bom.gov.au [134.178.209.72]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07115 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:56:10 -0400 Received: from emu.baps.bom.gov.au (emu.baps.bom.gov.au [134.178.210.22]) by virazon.baps.bom.gov.au with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.3) id LAA04624 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:56:05 +1000 (EST) Received: by emu.baps.bom.gov.au with Microsoft Mail id <01BEFEA8.1787F720@emu.baps.bom.gov.au>; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:55:51 +1000 Message-ID: <01BEFEA8.1787F720@emu.baps.bom.gov.au> From: Stuart Baly To: "'diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: Re: Vapour Pressure Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:55:50 +1000 X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:40:49 -0600 >From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) >Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #518 > >>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:24:29 -0700 >>From: "John Dammeyer" >>Subject: Vapour Pressure >> >>Hi All, >> >>Does anyone have the formulae for Vapor Pressure? If I assume RH is 75% >>and can >>measure the Air Temperature inside the intake manifold what is the calculation >>for vp? >> >>Thanks, >> >>John > >You need some combination of psychrometric charts or GOOD steam tables. A >good steam table will include a section giving the equations upon which the >values stated in the tables are based. > >If RH is 75%, the VP will be 75% of the VP (partial pressure of H2O vapor) >at saturated conditions for that temp. > >Greg > John, To calculate the saturation vapor pressure, you need the Goff-Gratch formula, which is: log10(Ew)= -7.90298(Ts/T-1) + 5.02808*log10(Ts/T) - 1.3816*10^-7*(10^(11.334(1-T/Ts))-1) + 8.1328*(10^(-3.49149(Ts/T-1))-1) + log10(Ews) where Ew = saturation vapor pressure in millibar T = abs. temp. (in K) Ts = steam point temp (=373.16K) Ews = saturation pressure of water @ steam-point temp. (=1013.246 millibar) There's a handwritten correction to this formula in my reference book - 8.1328 has been marked as 'should be 0.0081328'. To check this, you should get the following results T (C) pressure (mb) 10 12.272 15 17.044 20 23.373 This was from the Smithsonian Meteorological Tables, 1951 edition. Relative humidity = Vapor Pressure/Saturation Vapor Pressure I take it 75% RH refers to ambient conditions - the RH will change drastically as the air passes through the throttle body. There's a whole mess of if, buts and empirical corrections in this area of meteorology. You'll probably need to get a hold of a good reference and check it out. Cheers, Stuart Baly. Bureau of Meteorology, Australia. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C,!`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`$ (```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````80`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO M+7-T871E+F5D=0!33510`&1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E M+F5D=0`````>``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````(@```&1I>5]E M9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=0````,`%0P!`````P#^#P8` M```>``$P`0```"0````G9&EY7V5F:4!E9FDS,S(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E M9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E+F5D=0````(!]U\!````80`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO M+7-T871E+F5D=0!33510`&1I>5]E9FE 969I,S,R+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E M+F5D=0`````#`/U?`0````,`_U\``````@'V#P$````$`````````NEX`02 M`0`4````4F4Z(%9A<&]U# $````%````4TU4 M4 `````>`!\,`0```!(```!3+D)A;'E 8F]M+F=O=BYA=0````,`!A#IC]>> M`P`'$-(%```>``@0`0```&4```!$051%.E-!5"PQ,5-%4#$Y.3DP-SHT,#HT M.2TP-C P1E)/33I"14%20E9$0%-.24Y%5"A'4D5'2$5234%.3BE354)*14-4 M.E)%.D1)645&241)1T535%8T(S4Q.$1!5$4Z1E))``````(!"1 !````X 4` M`-P%```B"0``3%I&=9V+5;$#``H`1&\'D0!P>0(@ ME&4@$0!V)J!T:":@>P(0%_!U"V G,R*3(O@_\" @268I("9 (T$'@ D'\$@@ M! `@-S4EXQMF`'!D(&,`P)Q)E<74P M@P0@=6\BP .@+V -X&@G`A6E=O\'0 I0!" :4!-A*R +@"<#MSE4)D L06(I M@ F +AK\SRDQ*?<3X"<25E [5!9P]RI"-N)#E2@*L2#@!T W$.,C)3;B2#)/ M,8 H,AA&OR^!(0`M84 #!: @4&D]Q/\GXB<0+X$3<"T00@5M$D,S17H"U45/!S M*<(I510X+C$S5:!7E.@M,RX5(#$5(%3&6-7_4Y98L$NX"H O8 20(X5-<[U3 M\"!4($[?1?= 46T[2 )<&9<\3O 05$Z8/YK5J%91":Q!" 6<&S!`,#>,4U>4A44# T-!6D M^PP!=W8R6A!DH79;;>)GH/=)(0-A)P-37_ G$#7@`P#U`Y%-$4!E!; (\3S0 M,"'W+. 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M`````````!X`0X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`````` <```>`#T``0````$``````````P`--/TW```::P`` ` end From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 14 03:41:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA10169 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:41:05 -0400 Received: from wasp.co.za (IDENT:root@wasp.co.za [196.31.211.1]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10166 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:40:54 -0400 Received: from nvdwpc (nvdwpc.wasp.co.za [196.31.211.37]) by wasp.co.za (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14007 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:40:39 +0200 Message-Id: <4.1.19990914093736.01333120@wasp.co.za> X-Sender: nvdw@wasp.co.za X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:44:49 +0200 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Nic van der Walt Subject: Perpetual motion machines In-Reply-To: <199909131900.PAA01937@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu >conversion to energy of another variety the problem remains with >exactly where the low energy state is to be found. If within the >rotating >machine there is a zone of infinite negative pressure or lower temp >the "flow" will be unidirectional. A perfect perpetual motion machine. Simple... All you need is a micro black hole and a way to control it! I think Heinlein described it in the fifties, so they can't even patent it. N. ;-) From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 14 09:43:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14269 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:43:13 -0400 Received: from mailrelay3.sni.net (mailrelay3.sni.net [199.117.160.142]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14266 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:43:12 -0400 Received: from [204.132.128.2] (p1.Steamboat.dialup.csn.net [204.132.128.1]) by mailrelay3.sni.net (8.9.1/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA17993 for mail_from ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:43:10 -0600 X-Sender: bearbvd@lynx.sni.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:43:47 -0600 To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu From: bearbvd@sni.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #523 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:55:22 -0700 >From: "John Dammeyer" >Subject: Re: Low impedance waste spark coils? > >>From: "Clay Buccellato (Anthony)" >>Subject: Low impedance waste spark coils? > >>As far as I can tell, the only coil packs currently available are the >>factory units from Ford and Chevy. I've been told that they suffer from >>insulation breakdown on the secondary side, if you try and drive them >>very hard. I'm looking for the waste-spark equivalent of the Crane >>PS-92, or MSD pro-power. I want lightning bolts :) > >We're currently using the Ford units for aircraft applications and haven't yet >had problem that we are aware of. Where did you hear that the insulation >breaks >down on the secondary side? I'm currently dumping a 1.5uFd Cap sitting at 225V >into it through a triac. Works great. > >Regards, > >John > Jacobs makes a maverick spark unit for Hardley Ablesons that might do just what you need. I think it is rated at about a joule per spark. Greg From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 14 14:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19436 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:14:16 -0400 Received: from zagnut.hotpop.com (postfix@zagnut.hotpop.com [204.57.55.32]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19433 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:14:14 -0400 Received: from jacky (uia.gst.pm83.cyberg8t.com [209.203.71.83]) by zagnut.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9FA80639F0 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00da01befedc$b706f7e0$630101c0@uia.net> From: "Jacky" To: References: <199909140900.FAA10870@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Re: Bailey AFM-1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:12:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu What is the address for APE's web site? Jacky From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 14 14:19:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19482 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:19:16 -0400 Received: from mail.islandnet.com (mail.islandnet.com [199.175.106.4]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA19479 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:19:15 -0400 Received: from johnd [199.175.106.142] by mail.islandnet.com with smtp id m11QxAd-0006d7C for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003101befede$8ce64a90$0100a8c0@johnd.islandnet.com> From: "John Dammeyer" To: Subject: Vapor Pressure Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:00:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3115.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi guys, Thanks for those equations. Neither of those are probably appropriate for real time calculations from cranking up to 7000RPM and 7"Hg to 30"Hg inside the intake manifold with my little 8 bit processor. I'd have to create some lookup tables. But that does bring up an interesting point. Al Grippo, in his paper where he shows how do derive pulse width, aludes to 3.1Kpa correction for vapor pressure in the intake manifold, assuming 75% humidity and 85F temperature. Now, will this be the vapor pressure of the gasoline as it changes state from liquid into gas or water as it expands in the manifold? My understanding of fuel injection is that the MAP sensor will detect the pressure inside the intake manifold before fuel is injected. Then the appropriate calculations (or table lookups) are done and the fuel is injected. Obviously, squirt an incompressable liquid into a closed volume and the pressure would go up a bit but I doubt this impacts the manifold pressure significantly. However, once that gasoline turns into a vapour it must exert some extra pressure. Is that what is calculated in the formula? Or, given that RH is really a derived term and the proper variable for moisture is dew point are we more concerned about the change in pressure caused by the air mixture (containing some water) warms up inside the intake manifold. Wouldn't the MAP sensor detect this? In the Grippo (and Bowling) formulas the larger the vp the smaller the pulse width. This probably implies that some of the pressure measured by the MAP sensor is due to water content vapor pressure and therefore there is less oxygen in the air charge for combustion and so less fuel is needed. Question is, how much of an impact would that really make if the fuel injection system is tuned sitting at the edge of the Pacific Ocean with perhaps 80%RH and then run inland where the RH for the same ambient temperature is only 30%. For that matter, what happens when the engine is run when the temperature equals the dew point (fog in the air)? I guess I have to pull out the books again and figure this out a molecular level. Cheers, John >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:45:46 EDT >From: A70Duster@aol.com >Subject: Re: Vapor Pressure of Water > [snip] >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:55:50 +1000 >From: Stuart Baly >Subject: Re: Vapour Pressure > [snip] >Cheers, >Stuart Baly. >Bureau of Meteorology, Australia. > > From diy_efi-owner Tue Sep 14 14:22:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: (from root@localhost) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19523 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:22:39 -0400 Received: from palrel3.hp.com (palrel3.hp.com [156.153.255.226]) by esl.eng.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19519 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:22:36 -0400 Received: from postal.sr.hp.com (root@postal.sr.hp.com [15.4.46.173]) by palrel3.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id LAA23183 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from banshee.sr.hp.com (root@banshee.sr.hp.com [15.4.45.18]) by postal.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_17190)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id LAA04936 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sr.hp.com (claybu@prowler.sr.hp.com [15.4.55.119]) by banshee.sr.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0) id LAA17289 for