From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 08:41:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA03054 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:41:40 -0800 Received: from web10315.mail.yahoo.com (web10315.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.157]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id IAA03050 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:41:35 -0800 Message-ID: <20010305164130.24368.qmail@web10315.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.8.17.66] by web10315.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 08:41:30 PST Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:41:30 -0800 (PST) From: Grant Crockett Subject: Tuning with EGT To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org In-Reply-To: <85256A06.0048C650.00@keybank.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to optimum performance, without detonation. end ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 09:30:18 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03293 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:30:18 -0800 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA03289 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:30:12 -0800 Received: from richm ([62.255.116.22]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010305172958.RPHX281.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@richm> for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:29:58 +0000 From: "Rich M" To: Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:26:59 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20010305164130.24368.qmail@web10315.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to indicate onset of detonation? Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 09:32:53 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03305 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:32:53 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA03301 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:32:47 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-5.fwi.com [209.84.174.70]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22478 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:32:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00c901c0a59a$f273dd00$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: References: <20010305164130.24368.qmail@web10315.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:37:22 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We have found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to 90% of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place (in the chamber or in the exhaust). Just my $0.02 Jason > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 09:52:00 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03477 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:52:00 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (f250.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.128]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA03470 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:51:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host f250.law7.hotmail.com [216.33.236.128] claimed to be hotmail.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:51:22 -0800 Received: from 151.198.174.132 by lw7fd.law7.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 17:51:22 GMT X-Originating-IP: [151.198.174.132] From: "justin ivan" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:51:22 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2001 17:51:22.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[E436C610:01C0A59C] Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I have seen various discussion on this issue. I would agree that tuning by EGT alone can be dangerous becuase it can occur at different AFR's. Likewise tuning with AFR alone can also be a limitation becuase you don't know how close to the threshold before detonation you are. My comments apply largely to turbo efi cars as that is my experience but it is very possible to be at desired AFR but be 100+ deg F cool on the EGT, that means that ther is some room for more power to be made. I feel that both are probably better then one or the other. That being said I would rather have an AFR if I was limited to only one. Justin >From: "Jason R. Haines" >Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT >Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:37:22 -0500 > >We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We >have >found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time >constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to >90% >of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors >are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause >similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place >(in >the chamber or in the exhaust). > >Just my $0.02 > >Jason > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the >quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the >quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 10:36:08 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA03788 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:36:08 -0800 Received: from femail3.rdc1.on.home.com (femail3.rdc1.on.home.com [24.2.9.90]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA03756; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:34:07 -0800 Received: from cr29243a ([24.157.48.113]) by femail3.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010305183326.MGKZ6398.femail3.rdc1.on.home.com@cr29243a>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:33:26 -0800 Message-ID: <00a301c0a5bc$20f47420$71309d18@pr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: , References: <000b01c0a07c$ce2cb840$6d442dd8@chris> Subject: Re: Troubleshooting Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:34:58 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > I am having trouble with my fuel injection.Some co workers and I are stumped > as to what is wrong. > > The Integrator will bounce between 240-255 and 0. At idle it will read in > the upper 200's. It will hit 0 with throttle tip in and go back and forth > between 2xx and 0 during driving. 02 fluctuates and crosscounts. All other > sensors seem to be reading ok. Block learn is 124 to 128, as seen on a Snap > on Scanner. > >Chris Does your vehicle have an actual driveability problem that you are attempting to cure, or is this just something that you've noticed while staring at the scantool periodically? I had a similar situation once, and eventually decided it was a software and/or scan tool glitch. The problem only occurred when using my Snap-On MT2500 scan tool, but was absent when using a Tech I. The vehicle ran fine. Every once in awhile, one frame of data would get messed up, and then the next would typically be fine. Never more than 2 messed frames in a row. The only two parameters that were affected were the INT and the ESC status. INT would read funny (ie: 27.....41.....48......0......63.....66......70......225.....232......... real numbers from scans of that vehicle). ESC would toggle from NO to YES whenever the INT was messed. If you don't have an actual driveability problem, and if you don't think that your computer is suffering some form of reset (monitor the EST bypass line, and power & ground lines, with an oscilloscope to look for glitches), then I would ignore the whole deal. Walt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 10:37:25 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA03801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:37:25 -0800 Received: from firewall2.ceco.com (firewall-user@firewall2.ceco.com [198.29.253.131]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA03797 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:37:18 -0800 From: don.broadus@exeloncorp.com Received: by firewall2.ceco.com; id MAA02850; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:38:10 -0600 Received: from cccntmswp02.ceco.com(130.197.113.222) by firewall2.ceco.com via smap (V4.2) id xma029385; Mon, 5 Mar 01 12:36:52 -0600 Received: from cccntcon52.exeloncorp.com (unverified) by cccntmswp02.ceco.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:35:29 -0600 Received: by cccntcon52.ceco.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:35:29 -0600 Message-ID: <6D07A7DEF8E8D21182700080D8701070047F0FD2@cccntxch51.ceco.com> To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:35:17 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Has anybody tried the new RTD type EGT that are on the newer cars they are supposed to be much faster than thermocouples > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason R. Haines [SMTP:jhaines@lingenfelter.com] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:37 AM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We > have > found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time > constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to > 90% > of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors > are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause > similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place > (in > the chamber or in the exhaust). > > Just my $0.02 > > Jason > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ********************************************************************************* This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corp. proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corp. family of Companies. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. Thank You. ********************************************************************************* ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 10:57:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA03985 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:57:54 -0800 Received: from mta06.onebox.com (mta06.onebox.com [216.33.158.213]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA03981 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:57:48 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([64.68.77.140]) by mta06.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010305185659.CMGE4763.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:56:59 -0800 Received: from [143.166.82.240] by onebox.com with HTTP; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:56:59 -0800 Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:56:59 -0600 Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT From: "Josh Pullen" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20010305185659.CMGE4763.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org EGT's can really only indicate that you may be running lean or not. But there are can be other causes for detonation than just a lean condition. -- Josh Pullen 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo http://jmpvm.dyndns.org ---- "Rich M" wrote: > Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to > indicate > onset of detonation? > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > > the quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 11:40:42 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA04361 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:40:42 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA04357 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:40:36 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.190]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010305194024.JQSL10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:40:24 -0500 Message-ID: <00f701c0a5ac$365e94e0$be0ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <20010305185659.CMGE4763.mta06.onebox.com@onebox.com> Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:40:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org EGT's are about reaching the thermal limits of the engine. No more, nor less. You can change the EGTs by changing timing, and fuel, etc.. You monitor EGTs, not tune to a specific EGT, though folks often fall into it worked for Mr ABC, so it is a Golden Rule. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Pullen" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:56 PM Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT > EGT's can really only indicate that you may be running lean or not. > But there are can be other causes for detonation than just a lean condition. > > -- > Josh Pullen > 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo > http://jmpvm.dyndns.org > > > ---- "Rich M" wrote: > > Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to > > indicate > > onset of detonation? > > Rich > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > > > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > > > end > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---------- > > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > > > the quotes) > > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. > Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 12:26:03 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA04739 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:26:03 -0800 Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA04734 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:25:57 -0800 Received: from default (user220.net067.fl.sprint-hsd.net [207.30.237.220]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27072 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:24:32 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001701c0a5b2$37afbe40$0200000a@default> From: "Larry Heath" To: References: <20010305164130.24368.qmail@web10315.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:24:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 18:04:52 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06277 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:04:52 -0800 Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.73]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA06273 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:04:46 -0800 From: bjanesi@juno.com Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"S7g5Z/nL3jelbxYzoEfJU3Ug+HfLf13Dl1F84TCH1uewhC4dSGu0Cw=="> Received: (from bjanesi@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FXTH2XRV; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:04:03 EST To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 20:27:36 -0500 Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? Message-ID: <20010305.205651.-172331.0.bjanesi@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-9,15-16,19-20 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org "Rich M" wrote... >in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the > unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the shop - > we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing it > to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use. > However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different > unit....... The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models - one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand). I went so far as to buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after purchase. IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that was in a very clean state of tune. I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust CO measurement. Brad ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Mon Mar 5 19:40:14 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA06775 for diy_efi-outgoing; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:40:14 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA06767 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:40:03 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.128]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010306033959.MWJP10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:39:59 -0500 Message-ID: <02af01c0a5ef$194cbc40$be0ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <20010305.205651.-172331.0.bjanesi@juno.com> Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:36:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Sounds like an update on the old Heathkit CO2 meter kit. Sensor was just part of a whetstone bridge. State of the art circa 1975 Bruce From: > "Rich M" wrote... > >in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the > > unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the > shop - > > we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing > it > > to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use. > > However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different > > unit....... > > The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models - > one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand). I went so far as to > buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after > purchase. IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly > around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that > was in a very clean state of tune. > > I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be > interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust > CO measurement. > > Brad ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 6 05:25:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA09541 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 05:25:21 -0800 Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA09537 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 05:25:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3] claimed to be westbyserver.mwt.net Received: from mwt.net (pm3-2-168.oakdale.mwt.net [207.190.90.168] (may be forged)) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f26DPDD21012 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:25:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3AA4E515.121593AE@mwt.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:24:37 -0600 From: steve X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15-4mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: : Re: $175 CO meter? References: <200103060900.BAA08410@hektor.valesh.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Nice meter but needs changes needed to read accurate regulate voltage into whetstone bridge then put a constant velocity pump on it . Remember to not go way lean it will invert and show rich. Nice meter just a bit slower than new wide band o2 meters but no sensor to change ever . Tune race car with one for years. Steve > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:36:57 -0500 > From: "Bruce Plecan" > Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? > > Sounds like an update on the old Heathkit CO2 meter kit. > Sensor was just part of a whetstone bridge. > State of the art circa 1975 > Bruce ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 6 06:39:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA09854 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:39:47 -0800 Received: from pioneers1.mts.mb.ca (pioneers1.mts.mb.ca [142.160.2.11]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA09850 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:39:41 -0800 From: Neil.Poersch@mts.mb.ca Received: from smtp_mts.mts.mb.ca (smtp_mts.mts.mb.ca [142.160.162.230]) by pioneers1.mts.mb.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA19404 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:39:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:39:13 -0600 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on SMTP_MTS/GW/MTS(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 03/06/2001 08:39:06 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Ditto that for me. The thought of using a cheap home CO meter is very enticing. As a home tuner I really don't care what the absolute value of a particular measurement is. I'm only interested in the relative magnitude. I would use this for tuning my motorcycle and a small portable unit would be very attractive. Obviously one would have to remove the sensor for insertion into the exhaust gas stream and make a DC supply but that should be easy. This could be a good example of the cost efficiencies of mass manufacturing allowing a non-standard use. Comments anyone? Neil > I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust CO measurement. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 6 11:46:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA10992 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:46:24 -0800 Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA10988 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:46:17 -0800 Received: from earthlink.net (ip179.lansing6.mi.pub-ip.psi.net [38.33.20.179]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10675 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:46:12 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3AA53DB2.964451CB@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:42:42 -0500 From: Daniel and Laura Burk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: EGOR project notes? References: <20010305.205651.-172331.0.bjanesi@juno.com> <02af01c0a5ef$194cbc40$be0ac9d8@brucescompute> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Hi Bruce! Long time, no type. Andris Skulte told me that the EGOR project was in a state where it output an analog signal to a high-impedance input. I looked at the project notes but there does not seem to be any documentation that accompanies the schematics. Is there any documentation that describes the circuit and the operation of this system? Has anyone created a printed circuit board? Email me if you want to discuss it further. I'd like to know the current state of this project. Thanks, Daniel Burk renewed DIY_EFI'er who dropped off the list back in '97 to start a family. http://www.isthq.com/~dan/fcar.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 6 15:57:44 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA12586 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:57:44 -0800 Received: from web10004.mail.yahoo.com (web10004.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.40]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id PAA12581 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:57:38 -0800 Message-ID: <20010306235737.40611.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.26.156.210] by web10004.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:57:37 PST Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:57:37 -0800 (PST) From: Stone Subject: Hello (wideband O2) To: DIY_EFI@lists.diy-efi.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I just joined the list. This is probably a frequently asked question, if so I'm sorry, but where can I buy a wideband O2 sensor kit for my car? I saw the DYI kit at diy-efi.org but I got a D in Electronics in college for a reason :) FETs etc scare me. JMS sells a kit for $1100. I have a friend who works for Ford near Dearborn who said he can get me one for about $800. Are these reasonable prices? I can weld a bung in my exhaust no problem but I'd prefer to not have to fab my own LED display. Thanks. Gaston __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 6 17:45:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA13201 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:45:47 -0800 Received: from gemini.tntech.edu (gemini.tntech.edu [149.149.11.7]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA13197 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:45:41 -0800 Received: from us109.security.tntech.edu ([149.149.11.109]) by tntech.edu (PMDF V6.0-24 #38966) with ESMTP id <01K0VZKC22RS006B34@tntech.edu> for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:44:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:38:28 -0600 From: Holly and Chris Mills Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? In-reply-to: <20010305.205651.-172331.0.bjanesi@juno.com> X-Sender: scmills@gemini.tntech.edu To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Message-id: <5.0.0.25.2.20010306183737.01672100@gemini.tntech.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_4625903==_.ALT" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org --=====================_4625903==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I've missed much of this thread - can you advise where I can find (or what it takes to build) this CO meter? I'd love to have one. At 07:27 PM 3/4/01, you wrote: >"Rich M" wrote... > >in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the > > unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the >shop - > > we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing >it > > to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use. > > However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different > > unit....... > >The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models - >one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand). I went so far as to >buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after >purchase. IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly >around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that >was in a very clean state of tune. > >I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be >interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust >CO measurement. > >Brad >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org Chris in Mid-TN ICQ# 5944649 1978 Volkswagen Westfalia (almost done) 1965 VW Beetle with a Type IV power (perpetual project) 1949 Chevy 3100 p/u (daily driver) 1999 Honda CR-V (wife's ride) 1981 Honda CB900 Custom moto-sickle (other daily driver) 1972 Hodaka Wombat (FOR SALE) (needs new home) 1997 Wife named Holly 2000 model son named Zane several used felines (2 shiny black, one in primer) --=====================_4625903==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I've missed much of this thread - can you advise where I can find (or what it takes to build) this CO meter?

I'd love to have one.

At 07:27 PM 3/4/01, you wrote:
"Rich M" <rsrich@cwcom.net>  wrote...
>in a green box  it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the
> unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the
shop -
> we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing
it
> to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use.
> However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different
> unit.......

The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models -
one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand).  I went so far as to
buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after
purchase.  IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly
around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that
was in a very clean state of tune.

I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be
interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust
CO measurement.

Brad
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Chris in Mid-TN

ICQ# 5944649

1978 Volkswagen Westfalia               (almost done)
1965 VW Beetle   with a Type IV power   (perpetual project)
1949 Chevy 3100 p/u             (daily driver)
1999 Honda CR-V                 (wife's ride)
1981 Honda CB900 Custom moto-sickle     (other daily driver)
1972 Hodaka Wombat (FOR SALE)   (needs new home)

1997 Wife named Holly
2000 model son named Zane

several used felines (2 shiny black, one in primer)

--=====================_4625903==_.ALT-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 6 23:28:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id XAA15613 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:28:47 -0800 Received: from mail.yifansoft.com (qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA15609 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:28:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50] claimed to be mail.yifansoft.com Received: (qmail 10128 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 07:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO TheRebel) (216.192.200.129) by host5.yifansoft.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 07:27:05 -0000 From: "James Ballenger" To: Subject: RE: Electromotive software Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:29:02 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c0a6d8$49357200$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <000701c0a27a$dcafea40$a4d1fea9@oemcomputer> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Their software is very nice and very easy to tune with. I can provide screenshots for any functions you guys would want. Their 3d maps of fuel and ignition are a lot nicer than my haltech units. James Ballenger >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Programmer >Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 1:10 PM >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >Subject: Electromotive software > > >Hey guys, >Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod >using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very >cool...Looks like a >very tuneable system. > >Lyndon. > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" >(without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Tue Mar 6 23:42:07 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id XAA15708 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:42:07 -0800 Received: from mail.yifansoft.com (qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id XAA15696 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:41:57 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50] claimed to be mail.yifansoft.com Received: (qmail 15189 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 07:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO TheRebel) (216.192.200.129) by host5.yifansoft.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 07:40:23 -0000 From: "James Ballenger" To: Subject: RE: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 02:42:20 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c0a6da$248aa040$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <008d01c0a33c$f50848e0$9800a8c0@midsouth.rr.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Great website. Any idea why the subarban coils are referenced as a coil kit? I wonder why they would be more expensive than the camaro version? Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am looking for the harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I might find some harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or won't help me out on this one. Thanks, James Ballenger >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Jurgen Hartwig >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:20 PM >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > >> this one came off of a 99 Camaro. there was also a 98 TA (the tag on >the >> car reads "600hp TA", believe it, I saw the dyno sheet, blower & >squeeze) >> there that had the exact same setup. the part number on the >coils (all >16) >> was 12558948 (top line, p/n?), 09T29-0200 (bottom line, Date code?) >> > > >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification. > Hopefully, >someone can assist. > >However, I did do some rudimentary searching for the coils. >The cheapest >factory coils were $28.17 for the coils you have now, >12558948, and $37.53 >for the 2000 Suburban coils, 5.3L. These prices were quoted from >www.gmpartsdirect.com. They were quite a bit cheaper than all >the other >vendors. > >Now, as you already know, the coil-on-plug setup on the V8s is not >physically coil on each plug. There is a spark plug wire. Apparently, >the reason for this setup is to keep the exhaust manifolds >from damaging >the coils. However, there are some COP (coil-on-plug) setups which >physically sit atop the spark plug and are bolted to a bracket for >support. From what I have seen, some Toyotas and Isuzus may >utilize this >coil. This would likely be preferably to the GM coils for those not >driving V8. > >GM also installs the COP on their Lincoln line, including LS >and the SUV, >I believe. I wonder if GM installs COP on every V8, or only a handful. > >When I am in town sometime, I will make a point to stop at >some junkyards >and probe around. > >Jay > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" >(without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 00:16:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA15966 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:16:16 -0800 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA15962 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:16:10 -0800 Received: from whirlwind.CamaroElectronics.com (we-24-30-105-68.we.mediaone.net [24.30.105.68]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f278FAj14704 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:15:40 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307000710.00d771c0@mail.camaroelectronics.com> X-Sender: ira%camaroelectronics.com@mail.camaroelectronics.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:14:37 -0800 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: Ira Emus Subject: RE: CNP coils In-Reply-To: <002001c0a6da$248aa040$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> References: <008d01c0a33c$f50848e0$9800a8c0@midsouth.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org At 02:42 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification. > > Hopefully, someone can assist. My 2000 Camaro shop manual shows the coil connections are: A - Ground B - Reference low (seems to be ground in the PCM, probably ground return for the "Control signal") C - Control signal D - 12V with ignition on. The manual indicates that the coil is fired by grounding pin C. I hope that helps. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 05:17:48 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA17625 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:17:48 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA17619 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 05:17:41 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-4.fwi.com [209.84.174.69]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA26667 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:17:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007d01c0a709$910f09c0$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: spark timing measurement and recording Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:21:37 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition timing at the engine. Accurate Technologies sells a unit to do this but it costs several thousand dollars. One of the ECM wide band meters also offers this information but it too costs several thousand dollars. I would think with a crank position sensor and a pickup on a spark plug wire that this would not be that difficult to record. Any ideas on how to build such a device? Anyone else already make something like this but at lower cost? It would be nice to record ignition timing along with rpm and the other normally recorded variables in our data acquisition systems. Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 08:24:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA18665 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:24:13 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA18661 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:24:07 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.219]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010307162353.XOCH10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:23:53 -0500 Message-ID: <005201c0a723$0364b740$db0ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <002001c0a6da$248aa040$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> Subject: Re: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:23:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a Pigtail / Connector Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced. Bruce From: "James Ballenger" > Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am looking for the > harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I might find some > harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or won't help me > out on this one. > James Ballenger ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 08:33:31 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA18717 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:33:31 -0800 Received: from lsmls02.we.mediaone.net ([24.130.1.15]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA18713 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:33:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [24.130.1.15] claimed to be lsmls02.we.mediaone.net Received: from whirlwind.CamaroElectronics.com (we-24-30-105-68.we.mediaone.net [24.30.105.68]) by lsmls02.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f27GWoU07702 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:32:50 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307083027.00d6db20@mail.camaroelectronics.com> X-Sender: ira%camaroelectronics.com@mail.camaroelectronics.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 08:31:53 -0800 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: Ira Emus Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording In-Reply-To: <007d01c0a709$910f09c0$5ecdfea9@jrh> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition timing >at the engine. I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if you had the meter or something similar. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 09:17:44 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA19103 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:17:44 -0800 Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com ([199.74.158.61]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA19099 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:17:38 -0800 From: Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [199.74.158.61] claimed to be mail.verizonwireless.com Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com by mail.verizonwireless.com (414/1100) with ESMTP id f27HBXI02165 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:11:37 -0500 (EST) Received: by hqbedigw2.corp.bam.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:17:02 -0500 Message-ID: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3BC@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:09:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. We see temps from 1700 F to 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything over 1900 but we have seen it. Typical range I would say for blown applications is 1600 - 1800 F. As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder tuning, but there is no absolute value that you can tune for. Its more or less used as a reference from the last pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem with any one cylinder. We use 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a great basis to tune from. steve -----Original Message----- From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 10:58:08 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA19920 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:58:08 -0800 Received: from protactinium ([194.73.73.176]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA19916 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:58:02 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [194.73.73.176] claimed to be protactinium Received: from [62.6.88.232] (helo=z2s3l4) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14aj84-00043a-00 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:57:44 +0000 Message-ID: <003901c0a738$cee69900$e858063e@z2s3l4> From: "Huw Scourfield" To: Subject: Positive edge triggered ignition module Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:59:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Anyone know what vehicle might use a +ve edge triggered constant energy module?, needs to be sold in UK really for availability etc. Thinking of buying one of Perfect Powers cheaper ignition controllers. Thanks, Huw ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 12:00:57 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA20449 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:00:57 -0800 Received: from mail.yifansoft.com (qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA20444 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:00:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50] claimed to be mail.yifansoft.com Received: (qmail 10771 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 19:59:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO TheRebel) (216.192.206.133) by host5.yifansoft.com with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 19:59:12 -0000 From: "James Ballenger" To: Subject: RE: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:01:11 -0500 Message-ID: <002301c0a741$5bd989f0$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <005201c0a723$0364b740$db0ac9d8@brucescompute> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else.. The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and dont have a cross ref to Gm part #. The local AC Delco suppliers, namely GM dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have to do some traveling to get to one. That gmpartsdirect site is great, too bad I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up. James Ballenger >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Bruce Plecan >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > >Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a >Pigtail / Connector >Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced. >Bruce > > > >From: "James Ballenger" > >> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am >looking for the >> harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I >might find >some >> harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or >won't help me >> out on this one. >> James Ballenger > > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" >(without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 12:35:01 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA20817 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:35:01 -0800 Received: from firewall.etn.com (firewall.etn.com [151.110.127.15]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA20812 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:34:55 -0800 Received: from [151.110.126.97] by firewall.etn.com via smtpd (for hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 20:34:55 UT Received: by cleohshub02.etn.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:33:49 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Shirley, Mark R" To: "'diy_efi@diy-efi.org'" Subject: RE: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:33:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Call Packard. They are in Ohio somewhere. I don't have the # handy. Ask for a CSR. They should be able to help. Don't tell them you want one. Tell them you need samples for prototypes. -----Original Message----- From: James Ballenger [mailto:vtjballeng@yifan.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:01 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: CNP coils Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else.. The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and dont have a cross ref to Gm part #. The local AC Delco suppliers, namely GM dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have to do some traveling to get to one. That gmpartsdirect site is great, too bad I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up. James Ballenger >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Bruce Plecan >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > >Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a >Pigtail / Connector >Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced. >Bruce > > > >From: "James Ballenger" > >> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am >looking for the >> harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I >might find >some >> harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or >won't help me >> out on this one. >> James Ballenger > > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" >(without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 12:51:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA20961 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:51:19 -0800 Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com (imo-m03.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.6]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA20957 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:51:13 -0800 From: Moofaloof@aol.com Received: from Moofaloof@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id o.22.12dd5331 (15857) for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:50:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from web46.aolmail.aol.com (web46.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.7]) by air-id05.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:50:37 -0500 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:50:36 EST Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <22.12dd5331.27d7f91d@aol.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Yes, exactly. I use a Fluke 97 scopemeter and pick off the crank trigger signal and the signal to the coil on DIS cars or use an inductive pickup on the plug wire. jc In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ira Emus writes: << At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition timing >at the engine. I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if you had the meter or something similar. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 12:51:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA20971 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:51:28 -0800 Received: from web10305.mail.yahoo.com (web10305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.130.83]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id MAA20965 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:51:22 -0800 Message-ID: <20010307205118.88816.qmail@web10305.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.8.17.66] by web10305.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:51:18 PST Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:51:18 -0800 (PST) From: Grant Crockett Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org In-Reply-To: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3BC@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org How close is your probe to the exhaust port? --- Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com wrote: > I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. > We see temps from 1700 > F to > 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything > over 1900 but we have seen > it. > > Typical range I would say for blown applications is > 1600 - 1800 F. > > As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder > tuning, but there is no > absolute > value that you can tune for. Its more or less used > as a reference from the > last > pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem > with any one cylinder. > We use > 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a > great basis to tune from. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > > Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us > look for a max of about > 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish > line, i.e. max load max > rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high > octane ratings, generally > no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are > generally not prone to > detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of > guys use the EGT's in > tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs > use to tune gas fired > engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel > being very clean burning > and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys > seem to use the same > basic temp range as a max, although I have seen > references to EGT's much > lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for > max power. > > Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as > far as response time > goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in > this application. The > faster the response rate of the couple the shorter > the average life of the > unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with > standard response times > of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last > any significant amount of > time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the > minimum wire size that would > be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 > sec response time going > from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. > > Along these same lines I have a question; does any > have any info about > tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or > other similar sensor to > allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster > basis than the typical > EGT thermocouple sensors. > > Later Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Crockett" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with > exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that > the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to > high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature > readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 13:05:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA21178 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:05:47 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA21172 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:05:36 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-8.fwi.com [209.84.174.73]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21113; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:04:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004501c0a74a$cd138180$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: "GMECM" Cc: "DIY_EFI" Subject: reading block learn values from GM EFI systems? Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 15:51:19 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Does anyone know of a way to read/view all of the individual block learn/fuel trim values for each cell/block that are stored in the ECM/PCM (when retaining block learn values is enabled)? Could this be obtained through the diagnostic port or copied off of some internal chip? Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 13:18:49 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA21423 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:18:49 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA21417 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:18:42 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.219]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010307211838.ZKWL10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:18:38 -0500 Message-ID: <00a301c0a74c$30737540$db0ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <002301c0a741$5bd989f0$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> Subject: Re: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:18:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org If a store carries AC Spark Plugs they have access to ordering the book. Matter of fact they can order a book for you. Mine is getting seriously old now, but as I recall was $5. Sounds like you give up way too easy, also, pays to make friends. Bruce From: "James Ballenger" > Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that > that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else.. > The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and > dont have a cross ref to Gm part #. The local AC Delco suppliers, namely GM > dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have to > do some traveling to get to one. That gmpartsdirect site is great, too bad > I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up. > > James Ballenger > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > >Behalf Of Bruce Plecan > >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM > >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > > > > > >Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a > >Pigtail / Connector > >Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced. > >Bruce > > > > > > > >From: "James Ballenger" > > > >> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am > >looking for the > >> harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I > >might find > >some > >> harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or > >won't help me > >> out on this one. > >> James Ballenger > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------- > >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" > >(without the quotes) > >in the body of a message (not the subject) to > >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 13:34:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA21758 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:34:13 -0800 Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com ([199.74.158.61]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA21753 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:34:07 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [199.74.158.61] claimed to be mail.verizonwireless.com Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com by mail.verizonwireless.com (414/1100) with ESMTP id f27LS5I18320 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:28:05 -0500 (EST) Received: by hqbedigwy2.corp.bam.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:32:40 -0500 Message-ID: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3C4@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> From: "Flanagan, Steve" To: "'diy_efi@diy-efi.org'" Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:25:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org about 4 in from the header bracket (exhaust port). I think, but in this range, I have not looked at car since last Oct. At my brothers (he owns it). Just for group share: our tuner put it on the dyno last year and leaned it out chasing a inconsistent sputter, we saw over 1900 and within 6-10 passes it went to pieces. We ran several seasons around 1800 and never had any structural damage when examined during freshen ups. Be warned, 1900+ is the danger zone, 1800-1900 is playing with fire also. Hope this helps, By the way, the motor is all state of the art, no OEM. So don't try this with your leased car!!!!! Steve -----Original Message----- From: Grant Crockett [mailto:idratherbedriving@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:51 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT How close is your probe to the exhaust port? --- Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com wrote: > I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. > We see temps from 1700 > F to > 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything > over 1900 but we have seen > it. > > Typical range I would say for blown applications is > 1600 - 1800 F. > > As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder > tuning, but there is no > absolute > value that you can tune for. Its more or less used > as a reference from the > last > pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem > with any one cylinder. > We use > 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a > great basis to tune from. > > steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > > Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us > look for a max of about > 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish > line, i.e. max load max > rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high > octane ratings, generally > no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are > generally not prone to > detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of > guys use the EGT's in > tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs > use to tune gas fired > engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel > being very clean burning > and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys > seem to use the same > basic temp range as a max, although I have seen > references to EGT's much > lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for > max power. > > Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as > far as response time > goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in > this application. The > faster the response rate of the couple the shorter > the average life of the > unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with > standard response times > of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last > any significant amount of > time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the > minimum wire size that would > be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 > sec response time going > from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. > > Along these same lines I have a question; does any > have any info about > tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or > other similar sensor to > allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster > basis than the typical > EGT thermocouple sensors. > > Later Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Crockett" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with > exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that > the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to > high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature > readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 13:42:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA21905 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:42:13 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA21898 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:42:05 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.219]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010307214203.ZPBT10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:42:03 -0500 Message-ID: <00ea01c0a74f$75ed12e0$db0ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3C4@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:42:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Again, don't tune to a specific temperature. Record the temp at optimine performance. I don't know of any engine that will survive at over 2000dF, but there are any number that get best performance at like 1200dF. EGT is in part about the thermal limits of the engine, not always max HP Bruce From: "Flanagan, Steve" about 4 in from the header bracket (exhaust port). I think, but > in this range, I have not looked at car since last Oct. At my > brothers (he owns it). > Just for group share: our tuner put it on the dyno last year and > leaned it out chasing a inconsistent sputter, we saw over 1900 > and within 6-10 passes it went to pieces. > We ran several seasons around 1800 and never had any structural > damage when examined during freshen ups. > Be warned, 1900+ is the danger zone, 1800-1900 is playing with fire > also. > Hope this helps, By the way, the motor is all state of the art, > no OEM. So don't try this with your leased car!!!!! > Steve > From: Grant Crockett [mailto:idratherbedriving@yahoo.com] > How close is your probe to the exhaust port? > --- Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com wrote: > > I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. > > We see temps from 1700 > > F to > > 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything > > over 1900 but we have seen > > it. > > > > Typical range I would say for blown applications is > > 1600 - 1800 F. > > > > As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder > > tuning, but there is no > > absolute > > value that you can tune for. Its more or less used > > as a reference from the > > last > > pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem > > with any one cylinder. > > We use > > 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a > > great basis to tune from. > > > > steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us > > look for a max of about > > 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish > > line, i.e. max load max > > rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high > > octane ratings, generally > > no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are > > generally not prone to > > detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of > > guys use the EGT's in > > tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs > > use to tune gas fired > > engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel > > being very clean burning > > and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys > > seem to use the same > > basic temp range as a max, although I have seen > > references to EGT's much > > lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for > > max power. > > > > Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as > > far as response time > > goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in > > this application. The > > faster the response rate of the couple the shorter > > the average life of the > > unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with > > standard response times > > of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last > > any significant amount of > > time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the > > minimum wire size that would > > be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 > > sec response time going > > from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. > > > > Along these same lines I have a question; does any > > have any info about > > tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or > > other similar sensor to > > allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster > > basis than the typical > > EGT thermocouple sensors. > > > > Later Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Grant Crockett" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with > > exhaust > > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that > > the > > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to > > high > > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature > > readings? > > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > > > end ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 14:08:58 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA22208 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:08:58 -0800 Received: from femail1.rdc1.on.home.com (femail1.rdc1.on.home.com [24.2.9.88]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA22203 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:08:52 -0800 Received: from cr29243a ([24.157.48.113]) by femail1.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010307220714.ZICY14622.femail1.rdc1.on.home.com@cr29243a> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:07:14 -0800 Message-ID: <000d01c0a76c$7096a000$71309d18@pr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: References: <007d01c0a709$910f09c0$5ecdfea9@jrh> Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:09:34 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Who's WBEGO gives you spark along with A/F?...... > Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition timing > at the engine. Accurate Technologies sells a unit to do this but it costs > several thousand dollars. One of the ECM wide band meters also offers this > information but it too costs several thousand dollars. I would think with a > crank position sensor and a pickup on a spark plug wire that this would not > be that difficult to record. Any ideas on how to build such a device? Anyone > else already make something like this but at lower cost? It would be nice to > record ignition timing along with rpm and the other normally recorded > variables in our data acquisition systems. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 14:23:32 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA22337 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:23:32 -0800 Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com ([199.74.158.61]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA22333 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:23:25 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [199.74.158.61] claimed to be mail.verizonwireless.com Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com by mail.verizonwireless.com (414/1100) with ESMTP id f27MHNI18193 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:17:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by hqbedigwy1.corp.bam.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:19:23 -0500 Message-ID: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3CA@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> From: "Flanagan, Steve" To: "'diy_efi@diy-efi.org'" Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:15:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Agreed Bruce. In our application the 1700-1800 works fine, but on another setup (Nitros, NA, Blower, more or less HP), you may find yourself wondering why the engine left pieces all the way down the track. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan [mailto:nacelp@bright.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 4:42 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Again, don't tune to a specific temperature. Record the temp at optimine performance. I don't know of any engine that will survive at over 2000dF, but there are any number that get best performance at like 1200dF. EGT is in part about the thermal limits of the engine, not always max HP Bruce From: "Flanagan, Steve" about 4 in from the header bracket (exhaust port). I think, but > in this range, I have not looked at car since last Oct. At my > brothers (he owns it). > Just for group share: our tuner put it on the dyno last year and > leaned it out chasing a inconsistent sputter, we saw over 1900 > and within 6-10 passes it went to pieces. > We ran several seasons around 1800 and never had any structural > damage when examined during freshen ups. > Be warned, 1900+ is the danger zone, 1800-1900 is playing with fire > also. > Hope this helps, By the way, the motor is all state of the art, > no OEM. So don't try this with your leased car!!!!! > Steve > From: Grant Crockett [mailto:idratherbedriving@yahoo.com] > How close is your probe to the exhaust port? > --- Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com wrote: > > I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. > > We see temps from 1700 > > F to > > 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything > > over 1900 but we have seen > > it. > > > > Typical range I would say for blown applications is > > 1600 - 1800 F. > > > > As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder > > tuning, but there is no > > absolute > > value that you can tune for. Its more or less used > > as a reference from the > > last > > pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem > > with any one cylinder. > > We use > > 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a > > great basis to tune from. > > > > steve > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us > > look for a max of about > > 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish > > line, i.e. max load max > > rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high > > octane ratings, generally > > no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are > > generally not prone to > > detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of > > guys use the EGT's in > > tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs > > use to tune gas fired > > engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel > > being very clean burning > > and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys > > seem to use the same > > basic temp range as a max, although I have seen > > references to EGT's much > > lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for > > max power. > > > > Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as > > far as response time > > goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in > > this application. The > > faster the response rate of the couple the shorter > > the average life of the > > unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with > > standard response times > > of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last > > any significant amount of > > time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the > > minimum wire size that would > > be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 > > sec response time going > > from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. > > > > Along these same lines I have a question; does any > > have any info about > > tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or > > other similar sensor to > > allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster > > basis than the typical > > EGT thermocouple sensors. > > > > Later Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Grant Crockett" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with > > exhaust > > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that > > the > > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to > > high > > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature > > readings? > > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > > > end ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 14:36:06 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA22468 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:36:06 -0800 Received: from femail1.rdc1.on.home.com (femail1.rdc1.on.home.com [24.2.9.88]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA22462 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:36:00 -0800 Received: from cr29243a ([24.157.48.113]) by femail1.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010307223437.DPZ14622.femail1.rdc1.on.home.com@cr29243a> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:34:37 -0800 Message-ID: <002b01c0a770$43645b00$71309d18@pr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: References: <004501c0a74a$cd138180$5ecdfea9@jrh> Subject: Re: reading block learn values from GM EFI systems? Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:36:57 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Every ECM/PCM is gonna differ somewhat. If using OBDI, how about issuing something like either a Mode 2 or a Mode 3 data dump command, to spit relevant address values out the ALDL port upon request? Or, how about modifying your Mode 1 data stream profile to include the relevant BLM values in place of other less useful parameters, and then stream the BLM's to your ALDL tool? OBDII would be different again. If using an emulator, you may be able to extract these values directly via the editor interface? Kind of depends upon exactly what you are working with. > Does anyone know of a way to read/view all of the individual block > learn/fuel trim values for each cell/block that are stored in the ECM/PCM > (when retaining block learn values is enabled)? Could this be obtained > through the diagnostic port or copied off of some internal chip? > > > Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 14:50:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA22651 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:50:33 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA22647 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:50:27 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-14.fwi.com [209.84.174.79]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29908 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:50:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c0a759$94f3afa0$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: References: <007d01c0a709$910f09c0$5ecdfea9@jrh> <000d01c0a76c$7096a000$71309d18@pr1.on.wave.home.com> Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:52:53 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Who's WBEGO gives you spark along with A/F?...... The ECM (Engine Control and Monitoring, http://www.ecmco.com ) model 2400 gives AFR, spark timing, rpm and MAP. It can record the data or output it to a PC. It is a great unit but costs $8000. To record rpm you just clip a pickup to any spark plug wire. To get timing you need to mount a sensor to the engine to pickup up TDC. Jason > > > > > Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition > timing > > at the engine. Accurate Technologies sells a unit to do this but it costs > > several thousand dollars. One of the ECM wide band meters also offers this > > information but it too costs several thousand dollars. I would think with > a > > crank position sensor and a pickup on a spark plug wire that this would > not > > be that difficult to record. Any ideas on how to build such a device? > Anyone > > else already make something like this but at lower cost? It would be nice > to > > record ignition timing along with rpm and the other normally recorded > > variables in our data acquisition systems. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 16:04:31 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA23693 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:04:31 -0800 Received: from pimout2-int.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA23689 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:04:26 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101] claimed to be pimout2-int.prodigy.net Received: from cm28638a (nas-48-191.dallas.navipath.net [216.67.48.191]) by pimout2-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f2804OP114708 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:04:24 -0500 Message-ID: <00ae01c0a762$bab0dac0$085943d8@cm28638a> From: "Chris Remshaw" To: Subject: Newbie... Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 18:00:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C0A730.6F2B2060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C0A730.6F2B2060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I have = only begun to understand any of it. I am a computer programmer, but a = more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into programming = ECU's. Where is a good place to start (on the web, off the web, etc.)? = I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done modifications to my = own. I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS. =20 Thanks, Chris Remshaw ------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C0A730.6F2B2060 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi all,
  I have read this digest off and = on for the=20 past two years, and I have only begun to understand any of it.  I = am a=20 computer programmer, but a more internet-based one, and I would love to = get more=20 into programming ECU's.  Where is a good place to start (on the = web, off=20 the web, etc.)?  I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have = done=20 modifications to my own.  I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS.  =
 
Thanks,
Chris = Remshaw
------=_NextPart_000_00AB_01C0A730.6F2B2060-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 16:11:00 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA23838 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:11:00 -0800 Received: from mail49.fg.online.no ([148.122.161.49]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA23824 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:10:48 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [148.122.161.49] claimed to be mail49.fg.online.no Received: from siemens-nixdorf (ti34a02-0029.dialup.online.no [130.67.69.29]) by mail49.fg.online.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA20492 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:09:33 +0100 (MET) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 3 Jan 1988 10:44:09 +0100 Message-ID: <01B1E1AA.4EBE5360.mwichstr@online.no> From: espen hilde To: "'diy_efi@diy-efi.org'" Subject: SV: Tuning with EGT Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1988 10:43:45 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft-program for e-post for Internett/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Hi ! Great discusion! Why are all people tuning 2 strokes using just EGT ? Is it because they dont know any better? 1250 is the limit for Mercury 2.5 EFIs How is it possible to know if you need more advance or more fuel? I have read that exhaust temp and NOX is increasing when detonations are present. thanks Espen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 19:15:14 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA25801 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:15:14 -0800 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA25789 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:15:00 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-166.90.23.133.SanDiego1.Level3.net [166.90.23.133]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA27694 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:14:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: Subject: RE: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:15:35 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00a301c0a74c$30737540$db0ac9d8@brucescompute> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org what book are you talking about? what does it cross reference (from what to what)? does it have a part number on the cover that I can have him order? BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Plecan Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:19 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: CNP coils If a store carries AC Spark Plugs they have access to ordering the book. Matter of fact they can order a book for you. Mine is getting seriously old now, but as I recall was $5. Sounds like you give up way too easy, also, pays to make friends. Bruce From: "James Ballenger" > Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that > that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else.. > The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and > dont have a cross ref to Gm part #. The local AC Delco suppliers, namely GM > dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have to > do some traveling to get to one. That gmpartsdirect site is great, too bad > I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up. > > James Ballenger > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > >Behalf Of Bruce Plecan > >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM > >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > > > > > >Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a > >Pigtail / Connector > >Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced. > >Bruce > > > > > > > >From: "James Ballenger" > > > >> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am > >looking for the > >> harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I > >might find > >some > >> harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or > >won't help me > >> out on this one. > >> James Ballenger > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------- > >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" > >(without the quotes) > >in the body of a message (not the subject) to > >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 19:16:43 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA25824 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:16:43 -0800 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA25811 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:16:27 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-166.90.23.133.SanDiego1.Level3.net [166.90.23.133]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04061 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:16:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: Subject: RE: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:17:02 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010307000710.00d771c0@mail.camaroelectronics.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org thank you amigo, this is a great help. Bob Wooten -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Ira Emus Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 12:15 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: CNP coils At 02:42 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification. > > Hopefully, someone can assist. My 2000 Camaro shop manual shows the coil connections are: A - Ground B - Reference low (seems to be ground in the PCM, probably ground return for the "Control signal") C - Control signal D - 12V with ignition on. The manual indicates that the coil is fired by grounding pin C. I hope that helps. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 19:19:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA25874 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:19:19 -0800 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA25866 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:19:12 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-166.90.23.133.SanDiego1.Level3.net [166.90.23.133]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA15762 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:19:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: Subject: RE: CNP coils Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:19:46 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <002001c0a6da$248aa040$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org My dealer is pretty helpful, just making time to go see them is the hard part. when I have more concrete part numbers I will share them. thanks for the comment on the site. I added some time slips into the spec sheet section, nothing fabulous, just is what it is. BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of James Ballenger Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 11:42 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: CNP coils Great website. Any idea why the subarban coils are referenced as a coil kit? I wonder why they would be more expensive than the camaro version? Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am looking for the harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I might find some harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or won't help me out on this one. Thanks, James Ballenger >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Jurgen Hartwig >Sent: Friday, March 02, 2001 12:20 PM >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > >> this one came off of a 99 Camaro. there was also a 98 TA (the tag on >the >> car reads "600hp TA", believe it, I saw the dyno sheet, blower & >squeeze) >> there that had the exact same setup. the part number on the >coils (all >16) >> was 12558948 (top line, p/n?), 09T29-0200 (bottom line, Date code?) >> > > >Bob, sorry I don't have the info about the pin identification. > Hopefully, >someone can assist. > >However, I did do some rudimentary searching for the coils. >The cheapest >factory coils were $28.17 for the coils you have now, >12558948, and $37.53 >for the 2000 Suburban coils, 5.3L. These prices were quoted from >www.gmpartsdirect.com. They were quite a bit cheaper than all >the other >vendors. > >Now, as you already know, the coil-on-plug setup on the V8s is not >physically coil on each plug. There is a spark plug wire. Apparently, >the reason for this setup is to keep the exhaust manifolds >from damaging >the coils. However, there are some COP (coil-on-plug) setups which >physically sit atop the spark plug and are bolted to a bracket for >support. From what I have seen, some Toyotas and Isuzus may >utilize this >coil. This would likely be preferably to the GM coils for those not >driving V8. > >GM also installs the COP on their Lincoln line, including LS >and the SUV, >I believe. I wonder if GM installs COP on every V8, or only a handful. > >When I am in town sometime, I will make a point to stop at >some junkyards >and probe around. > >Jay > >--------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" >(without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 19:25:23 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA25982 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:25:23 -0800 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA25977 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:25:17 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-166.90.23.133.SanDiego1.Level3.net [166.90.23.133]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA10102 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:25:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: Subject: RE: Tuning with GET Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:25:51 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3BC@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org what are you running that is making 1600 hp? is there a web site that shows this beast?(off list if you don't want to continue the subject on list). thanks, BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:09 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. We see temps from 1700 F to 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything over 1900 but we have seen it. Typical range I would say for blown applications is 1600 - 1800 F. As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder tuning, but there is no absolute value that you can tune for. Its more or less used as a reference from the last pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem with any one cylinder. We use 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a great basis to tune from. steve -----Original Message----- From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 19:34:50 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA26099 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:34:50 -0800 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA26093; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:34:43 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-166.90.23.133.SanDiego1.Level3.net [166.90.23.133]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA16705; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:34:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: , Subject: Igniter & coil Theory of Op Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:35:18 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Evening all, earlier today I loaded into incoming a doc called "Igniter & Coil theory" as I am working on my little project I realize that the more I know the less I know & have to learn how to walk before I run. that being said, I finished the drawing today & would like a sanity check. if you don't mind check it out & let me know if I have told any cardinal lies, or if they are mostly venial ones. thanks, Bob Wooten r71chevy@earthlink.net www.r71camaro.homestead.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 20:15:08 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26709 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:15:08 -0800 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA26700 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:14:58 -0800 Received: from pacbell ([63.196.112.239]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G9V008NI2F93W@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:13:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:13:58 -0800 From: Carl Summers Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT In-reply-to: <6D07A7DEF8E8D21182700080D8701070047F0FD2@cccntxch51.ceco.com> To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I have a couple of the RTD's here and have used them at my old job.... very nice devices and seem much faster than K type. I wish I would have kept the transfer function,,,,oh well, have to call Hereaus(sic?) -Carl Summers -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of don.broadus@exeloncorp.com Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 10:35 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Has anybody tried the new RTD type EGT that are on the newer cars they are supposed to be much faster than thermocouples > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason R. Haines [SMTP:jhaines@lingenfelter.com] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:37 AM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We > have > found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time > constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to > 90% > of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors > are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause > similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place > (in > the chamber or in the exhaust). > > Just my $0.02 > > Jason > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org **************************************************************************** ***** This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corp. proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corp. family of Companies. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. Thank You. **************************************************************************** ***** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 20:21:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA26776 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:21:40 -0800 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA26771 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:21:34 -0800 Received: from pacbell ([63.196.112.239]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G9V008N328PI1@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:10:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:10:02 -0800 From: Carl Summers Subject: RE: Tuning with GET In-reply-to: To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Hi list, been real busy so I haven't followed this thread. I have tuned quite a few twin turbo setups and EGT is pretty unreliable and extremely slow. One TT 540 I did was 1639hp at 6000 rpm. Timing has a dramatic affect on EGT. This engine stabilized around 1430F EGT but when timing was too low...EGT's were all over the place. Individual cylinder tuning had some effect but was not the cure all for the EGT variances. Individual cylinder ignition timing would be really good for us but we don't have the control to do coil on plug yet. I just finished a TT 572BBC that was 1145hp at 6000 on 92 octane. Took quite a bit of work but EGT's are stable in the high 1300's and loaded it on the dyno till we started overheating the dyno tanks(about 10 minutes) without a trickle of knock. Most applications I work on are more of a severe environment than drag racing as this is a marine environment. Climbing EGT's will cause ultimate exhaust valve failure even with inconel valves. We have done quite a bit of cam timing changes to help reduce EGT and still maintain a decent spool up time. What cu in and environment is the 1600hp you are doing??? ttyl -Carl Summers -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Bob Wooten Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 7:26 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with GET what are you running that is making 1600 hp? is there a web site that shows this beast?(off list if you don't want to continue the subject on list). thanks, BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:09 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. We see temps from 1700 F to 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything over 1900 but we have seen it. Typical range I would say for blown applications is 1600 - 1800 F. As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder tuning, but there is no absolute value that you can tune for. Its more or less used as a reference from the last pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem with any one cylinder. We use 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a great basis to tune from. steve -----Original Message----- From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Wed Mar 7 20:37:46 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA27022 for diy_efi-outgoing; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:37:46 -0800 Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA27018 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:37:40 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-209.244.71.87.SanDiego1.Level3.net [209.244.71.87]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28950 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:37:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: Subject: RE: Tuning with GET Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:38:07 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org WOW, those kind of numbers are just amazing to me. My partner & I are considering doing a Turbo (Twin?) BBC for drag racing but, I think that this is a little overzealous @ this point. I think that the first step is a EFI BBC, then maybe a Single turbo & then we will talk about BIG HP. what we are shooting for is about 1000 hp Turbo, efi, that we can squeeze. one step @ a time. got to get the 383 running right, then we will go from there. thanks for the info. where do you work if you don't mind me asking? BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Carl Summers Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:10 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with GET Hi list, been real busy so I haven't followed this thread. I have tuned quite a few twin turbo setups and EGT is pretty unreliable and extremely slow. One TT 540 I did was 1639hp at 6000 rpm. Timing has a dramatic affect on EGT. This engine stabilized around 1430F EGT but when timing was too low...EGT's were all over the place. Individual cylinder tuning had some effect but was not the cure all for the EGT variances. Individual cylinder ignition timing would be really good for us but we don't have the control to do coil on plug yet. I just finished a TT 572BBC that was 1145hp at 6000 on 92 octane. Took quite a bit of work but EGT's are stable in the high 1300's and loaded it on the dyno till we started overheating the dyno tanks(about 10 minutes) without a trickle of knock. Most applications I work on are more of a severe environment than drag racing as this is a marine environment. Climbing EGT's will cause ultimate exhaust valve failure even with inconel valves. We have done quite a bit of cam timing changes to help reduce EGT and still maintain a decent spool up time. What cu in and environment is the 1600hp you are doing??? ttyl -Carl Summers -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Bob Wooten Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 7:26 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with GET what are you running that is making 1600 hp? is there a web site that shows this beast?(off list if you don't want to continue the subject on list). thanks, BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:09 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. We see temps from 1700 F to 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything over 1900 but we have seen it. Typical range I would say for blown applications is 1600 - 1800 F. As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder tuning, but there is no absolute value that you can tune for. Its more or less used as a reference from the last pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem with any one cylinder. We use 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a great basis to tune from. steve -----Original Message----- From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 01:50:32 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA28813 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:50:32 -0800 Received: from melpop01.goconnect.net ([202.92.76.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA28808 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:50:14 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [202.92.76.50] claimed to be melpop01.goconnect.net Received: from default ([202.92.84.162]) by melpop01.goconnect.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id G9VHXP00.TNU for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:49:01 +1100 Message-ID: <000001c0a7ad$ff101a00$a2545cca@default> From: "Warwick Anderson" To: References: <01B1E1AA.4EBE5360.mwichstr@online.no> Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:59:30 +1100 Organization: Racingfit PT& EPIC! Racing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >From racing go Karts, people use EGT, basicly to get the motor tune back to where you think it is making most power. with the 2 stroke KT100S motors you need to tune them each time you go out via a low speed and high speed needle on the carb. I have used it (egt) but didnt find it that much help. thing is when you replace the sensor in the pipe you get a whole bunch of different readings so you need to start again logging what was good tunes ect. ----- Original Message ----- From: "espen hilde" To: Sent: Sunday, January 03, 1988 8:43 PM Subject: SV: Tuning with EGT > > Hi ! Great discusion! > Why are all people tuning 2 strokes using just EGT ? > Is it because they dont know any better? > 1250 is the limit for Mercury 2.5 EFIs > How is it possible to know if you need more advance or more fuel? > I have read that exhaust temp and NOX is increasing when detonations are present. > thanks > Espen > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 02:59:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id CAA29143 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 02:59:28 -0800 Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA29135 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 02:59:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host cruzers.com [205.215.232.2] claimed to be blackie.cruzers.com Received: from cruzers.com (robbie-147.cruzers.com [209.165.194.147]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA23689 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 03:00:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3AA7633B.8D2A5153@cruzers.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 02:47:37 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Diy_efi Subject: Winter gas vs summer gas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Has anyone here experienced problems with "winter" gas? Especially the oxygenated, reformulated, winter gas sold in California in (I think) November, December, and January? The previous two winters, the winter gas caused two of my vehicles to occasionally ping under mild throttle conditions. Each year, by the time the weather warmed up enough (February) to consider diagnosing the pinging, the problem went away. One vehicle is PFI and the other has a computer-carb. A neighbor reported similar problems with a TBI engine. This winter, I didn't have the pinging. Instead, the carb vehicle liked to stall when the engine was cool. The engine acted/sounded like it went totally pig rich, the rpms dropped, it started rich misfiring, and eventually stalled. I replaced a few "iffy" parts, but couldn't fully solve the problem. I've been driving around for several weeks with a DVM hooked to the O2 sensor. The DVM showed that the cool engine wasn't nearly as rich as it sometimes got when fully warmed up. A few days ago, I filled up with gas for the first time since January. (30 gallon gas tank...) Problem solved. Hrmph! -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 06:25:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA30018 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:25:19 -0800 Received: from mx.spiritone.com (mx.spiritone.com [205.139.108.5]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id GAA30014 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:25:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 17830 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 14:25:05 -0000 Received: (ofmipd 204.245.204.50); 8 Mar 2001 14:24:43 -0000 Date: 8 Mar 2001 06:25:03 -0800 Message-ID: <000301c0a7db$913f6020$2b01a8c0@verio.com> From: "Eric Aos" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Winter gas vs summer gas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <3AA7633B.8D2A5153@cruzers.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I have to re-jet my pickup every time they change gas here in Oregon. This year wasn't as bad as the last ones though. Eric > > Has anyone here experienced problems with "winter" gas? > Especially the > oxygenated, reformulated, winter gas sold in California in (I think) > November, December, and January? > > The previous two winters, the winter gas caused two of my vehicles to > occasionally ping under mild throttle conditions. Each year, by the > time the weather warmed up enough (February) to consider > diagnosing the > pinging, the problem went away. One vehicle is PFI and the > other has a > computer-carb. A neighbor reported similar problems with a > TBI engine. > > This winter, I didn't have the pinging. Instead, the carb > vehicle liked > to stall when the engine was cool. The engine acted/sounded like it > went totally pig rich, the rpms dropped, it started rich > misfiring, and > eventually stalled. I replaced a few "iffy" parts, but couldn't fully > solve the problem. I've been driving around for several weeks with a > DVM hooked to the O2 sensor. The DVM showed that the cool > engine wasn't > nearly as rich as it sometimes got when fully warmed up. > > A few days ago, I filled up with gas for the first time since > January. > (30 gallon gas tank...) Problem solved. Hrmph! > > -- > Ludis Langens ludis (at) > cruzers (dot) com > Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 06:25:10 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA30012 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:25:10 -0800 Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com ([199.74.158.61]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA30001 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:24:57 -0800 From: Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [199.74.158.61] claimed to be mail.verizonwireless.com Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com by mail.verizonwireless.com (414/1100) with ESMTP id f28EIqH17517 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:18:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by hqbedigw2.corp.bam.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:24:25 -0500 Message-ID: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3CB@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with GET Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:16:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Carl to answer your question. The 1600 hp is on a Ford 302 Stroker (now 347), single turbo (Thumper 100mm), Pro 5.0 mustang drag car. The Turbo can make around 1800HP, we will see this season. We used to run two T-72 Twins, but the rules made us change, saw very similar HP. Spool up time has been an issue, but seemed to figure that out last season. This year with a Stick - spool should not be an issue. We had a web site, but for some reason it is down. Need to contact to the admin who did it. -----Original Message----- From: Bob Wooten [mailto:r71chevy@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:38 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with GET WOW, those kind of numbers are just amazing to me. My partner & I are considering doing a Turbo (Twin?) BBC for drag racing but, I think that this is a little overzealous @ this point. I think that the first step is a EFI BBC, then maybe a Single turbo & then we will talk about BIG HP. what we are shooting for is about 1000 hp Turbo, efi, that we can squeeze. one step @ a time. got to get the 383 running right, then we will go from there. thanks for the info. where do you work if you don't mind me asking? BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Carl Summers Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 8:10 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with GET Hi list, been real busy so I haven't followed this thread. I have tuned quite a few twin turbo setups and EGT is pretty unreliable and extremely slow. One TT 540 I did was 1639hp at 6000 rpm. Timing has a dramatic affect on EGT. This engine stabilized around 1430F EGT but when timing was too low...EGT's were all over the place. Individual cylinder tuning had some effect but was not the cure all for the EGT variances. Individual cylinder ignition timing would be really good for us but we don't have the control to do coil on plug yet. I just finished a TT 572BBC that was 1145hp at 6000 on 92 octane. Took quite a bit of work but EGT's are stable in the high 1300's and loaded it on the dyno till we started overheating the dyno tanks(about 10 minutes) without a trickle of knock. Most applications I work on are more of a severe environment than drag racing as this is a marine environment. Climbing EGT's will cause ultimate exhaust valve failure even with inconel valves. We have done quite a bit of cam timing changes to help reduce EGT and still maintain a decent spool up time. What cu in and environment is the 1600hp you are doing??? ttyl -Carl Summers -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Bob Wooten Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 7:26 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with GET what are you running that is making 1600 hp? is there a web site that shows this beast?(off list if you don't want to continue the subject on list). thanks, BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:09 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT I use 8 EGTs to aid in tuning a 1600 HP Turbo setup. We see temps from 1700 F to 1900 F. Lets say we do not like to see anything over 1900 but we have seen it. Typical range I would say for blown applications is 1600 - 1800 F. As far as tuning, its aids in individual cylinder tuning, but there is no absolute value that you can tune for. Its more or less used as a reference from the last pass. Its also great to see if you have a problem with any one cylinder. We use 116 octane. Combined with wide band 02 provides a great basis to tune from. steve -----Original Message----- From: Larry Heath [mailto:lgheath@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 3:24 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 06:42:44 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA30173 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:42:44 -0800 Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com ([199.74.158.61]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA30168 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 06:42:38 -0800 From: Steve.Flanagan@VerizonWireless.com X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [199.74.158.61] claimed to be mail.verizonwireless.com Received: from mail.verizonwireless.com by mail.verizonwireless.com (414/1100) with ESMTP id f28EaXH28333 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:36:33 -0500 (EST) Received: by hqbedigw1.corp.bam.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:42:06 -0500 Message-ID: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3CD@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: spark timing measurement and recording Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:34:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org If you are going to spend that much, why not just buy an Accel DFI, or Speed Pro, or Motec, Haltronic, etc system that lets your read 02 and control individual spark and fuel. You can be in most of these systems for under 4K. But then again, this site is about DIY. -----Original Message----- From: Jason R. Haines [mailto:jhaines@lingenfelter.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:53 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording > Who's WBEGO gives you spark along with A/F?...... The ECM (Engine Control and Monitoring, http://www.ecmco.com ) model 2400 gives AFR, spark timing, rpm and MAP. It can record the data or output it to a PC. It is a great unit but costs $8000. To record rpm you just clip a pickup to any spark plug wire. To get timing you need to mount a sensor to the engine to pickup up TDC. Jason > > > > > Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition > timing > > at the engine. Accurate Technologies sells a unit to do this but it costs > > several thousand dollars. One of the ECM wide band meters also offers this > > information but it too costs several thousand dollars. I would think with > a > > crank position sensor and a pickup on a spark plug wire that this would > not > > be that difficult to record. Any ideas on how to build such a device? > Anyone > > else already make something like this but at lower cost? It would be nice > to > > record ignition timing along with rpm and the other normally recorded > > variables in our data acquisition systems. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 07:12:57 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA30442 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:12:57 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA30438 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:12:51 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-12.fwi.com [209.84.174.77]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20028 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:12:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <006d01c0a7e2$d32c09a0$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: References: <19D424DA3941D41189DE0008C7EB79DB52E3CD@hqbedex3.corp.bam.com> Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:16:55 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I want to be able to record spark timing on any engine that we test on the engine dynamometer or on the chassis dynamometer (maybe even in vehicle so on the road or on the water). Most will be EFI applications (many different ECMs) and some will be carb's. Also, the aftermarket ECM's can't be used for emissions certified applications. Jason > If you are going to spend that much, why not just buy an Accel DFI, or Speed > Pro, > or Motec, Haltronic, etc system that lets your read 02 and control > individual spark and fuel. > You can be in most of these systems for under 4K. But then again, this site > is about DIY. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason R. Haines [mailto:jhaines@lingenfelter.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 5:53 PM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording > > > > Who's WBEGO gives you spark along with A/F?...... > > The ECM (Engine Control and Monitoring, http://www.ecmco.com ) model 2400 > gives AFR, spark timing, rpm and MAP. It can record the data or output it to > a PC. It is a great unit but costs $8000. To record rpm you just clip a > pickup to any spark plug wire. To get timing you need to mount a sensor to > the engine to pickup up TDC. > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition > > timing > > > at the engine. Accurate Technologies sells a unit to do this but it > costs > > > several thousand dollars. One of the ECM wide band meters also offers > this > > > information but it too costs several thousand dollars. I would think > with > > a > > > crank position sensor and a pickup on a spark plug wire that this would > > not > > > be that difficult to record. Any ideas on how to build such a device? > > Anyone > > > else already make something like this but at lower cost? It would be > nice > > to > > > record ignition timing along with rpm and the other normally recorded > > > variables in our data acquisition systems. > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 07:22:09 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA30524 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:22:09 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA30520 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:22:02 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-12.fwi.com [209.84.174.77]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25881 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:21:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00bd01c0a7e4$19ccad00$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: References: Subject: Re: Fuel Pressure Sensor Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:26:03 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I think some marine applications (MEFI3 EFI engines) may use an optional fuel pressure sensor but I haven't figured out what applications yet. BTW - the new Duramax Isuza/GM diesel has a fuel pressure sensor that read to something like 35,000 psi but is probably not very accurate at 43 psi 8-). Jason > Where could I find a fuel pressure sensor cheap? Are there any OEM > sources I could get out of a junkyard? Thanks, > > > James Scott Flanagan > Mechanical Engineering Undergraduate > Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 > Email: gte861v@prism.gatech.edu > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 07:25:39 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id HAA30578 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:25:39 -0800 Received: from smtpgw.bnl.gov (mail@smtpgw.bnl.gov [130.199.3.16]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id HAA30574 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:25:33 -0800 Received: from bnl.gov ([130.199.128.163]) by smtpgw.bnl.gov with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 ) id 14b2EO-0005pw-00 for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 10:21:32 -0500 Received: from inst911 (inst911.ags.bnl.gov [130.199.100.93]) by bnl.gov (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA06687 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:25:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20010308102447.01b09b50@exchange01.bnl.gov> X-Sender: rschroeder@exchange01.bnl.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 10:24:47 -0500 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: Ron Schroeder Subject: RE: Winter gas vs summer gas and Intro In-Reply-To: <000301c0a7db$913f6020$2b01a8c0@verio.com> References: <3AA7633B.8D2A5153@cruzers.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org At 06:25 AM 3/8/01 -0800, you wrote: >I have to re-jet my pickup every time they change gas here in Oregon. This >year wasn't as bad as the last ones though. >Eric > >> >> Has anyone here experienced problems with "winter" gas? >> Especially the >> oxygenated, reformulated, winter gas sold in California in (I think) >> November, December, and January? Hi, I am Ron Schroeder. Electronics nut for a real job, Car nut for hobby. I have a 1973 Pinzgauer, a military vehicle from the Swiss Army, made in Austria. It's engine is a 2.5L 4 cyl inline air cooled engine with 2 Solex 36 NDIX racing carbs and headers. I am getting tired of syncronizing the carbs and cold start problems so I would like to fuel inject it. I am thinking of a single GM TBI for a start. Since this engine is so different from any factory GM aplication, I don't know what to do about the fuel mapping and how to simulate the coolant temp sensor (no coolant in an air cooled engine). I would like to reduce the emissions and improve the smoothness more than increase power. Better fuel economy wouldn't hurt either. It puts out 90HP at 4000 rpm and about 125lb/ft of torque at 2000 rpm. It needs the low rpm torque peak due to the wide ratio transmission. Eric, did you re-jet leaner or richer? When I worked at a Ford dealership I found a very common complaint was poor running with the oxygenated winter fuel mostly with the MBTE formula rather than the ethanol or methanol addative formula. Ron Schroeder WD8CDH E. E. S. wd8cdh@bnl.gov rjs@bnl.gov ron@112motors.com 631 344-4561 Day 631 286-5677 Nite ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 10:09:36 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA31287 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:09:36 -0800 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA31283 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:09:30 -0800 Received: from [62.7.116.121] (helo=helene) by tungsten.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14b4qs-000774-00 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:09:27 +0000 From: "Ade + Lamb Chop" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:09:24 -0000 Subject: OT: wiring diagram for Honda 1600 DOHC "ZC" engine Message-ID: <3AA7CAD4.31145.BD940C@localhost> In-reply-to: <00bd01c0a7e4$19ccad00$5ecdfea9@jrh> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Hi All, I have a DOHC non-vtec honda engine from a CRX (89) and an ECU from an 88 honda integra ex16 (same engine). Both cars are UK spec. I am after a efi wiring diagrams so that I can get the engine to run. I have a haynes manual that covers the US SOHC CRXs will that be the same system? Thanx, Ade ICQ. 75653589 www.adesite.co.uk ade.honda-mini.co.uk www.mini-list.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 10:12:31 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA31309 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:12:31 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA31305 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:12:25 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-48.fwi.com [209.84.174.113]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11149 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:12:01 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002b01c0a7fb$def06420$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: References: <22.12dd5331.27d7f91d@aol.com> Subject: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:16:11 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Thanks for the information. I called Fluke and they confirmed that the model 98 can perform spark advance and rpm measurement and recording (to a PC). One problem - they don't make the Fluke model 98 anymore and it does not currently have a replacement either. I was told that they got caught off guard by a chip manufacturer's decision to stop making one of the critical chips used in the model 98. They bought a one-time buy of chips to service future model 98 repairs but had to stop making the model 98. Any other scope meters from other companies that offer this feature? Thanks, Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:50 PM Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording > Yes, exactly. I use a Fluke 97 scopemeter and pick off the crank trigger signal and the signal to the coil on DIS cars or use an inductive pickup on the plug wire. > jc > > > > > In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ira Emus writes: > > << At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition timing > >at the engine. > > I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC > crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if you > had the meter or something similar. > > Ira > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > >> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 10:24:36 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA31439 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:24:36 -0800 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA31430 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:24:28 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114] claimed to be fw-austin.austin.arm.com Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id MAA24796; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:24:27 -0600 Received: from unknown(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (V5.0) id xma024794; Thu, 8 Mar 01 12:23:52 -0600 Received: from arm.com (auspc21 [192.168.3.121]) by aussun1.austin.arm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26497 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:23:48 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3AA7CD2C.E3A4BBE0@arm.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:19:24 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Newbie... References: <00ae01c0a762$bab0dac0$085943d8@cm28638a> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Chris, it seems like there's a ton of information for GM cars, somewhat less for Fords, and basically none for anything else. So it might be hard to find out about your Eclipse. But, you can look around at the gmecm page and learn a lot about GM EFI strategy. Another great place is the archives of both diy-efi and gmecm. Both archives can be downloaded from their respective WWW pages, and searched with a text editor or word processor. I wouldn't try reading from end to end, but browse around in them and read stuff that looks interesting. There isn't a good place to start, that I know of at least, other than read a lot and ask questions. Good luck! --steve > Chris Remshaw wrote: > > Hi all, > I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I > have only begun to understand any of it. I am a computer programmer, > but a more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into > programming ECU's. Where is a good place to start (on the web, off > the web, etc.)? I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done > modifications to my own. I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS. > > Thanks, > Chris Remshaw -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com ARM,Inc. www.arm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 10:25:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA31468 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:25:28 -0800 Received: from eid01.eidnet.org ([206.191.105.11]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA31463 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:25:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [206.191.105.11] claimed to be eid01.eidnet.org Received: from oemcomputer ([206.191.105.92]) by eid01.eidnet.org (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-59363U3000L300S0V35) with SMTP id org for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:04:32 -0700 Message-ID: <000d01c0a7fd$290f31c0$a4d1fea9@oemcomputer> From: "Programmer" To: References: <22.12dd5331.27d7f91d@aol.com> <002b01c0a7fb$def06420$5ecdfea9@jrh> Subject: Re: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:25:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Jason, There should be a couple sites that you could get a good refurbished 98 from--I'll dig them up. Lyndon ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason R. Haines To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] > Thanks for the information. I called Fluke and they confirmed that the model > 98 can perform spark advance and rpm measurement and recording (to a PC). > One problem - they don't make the Fluke model 98 anymore and it does not > currently have a replacement either. I was told that they got caught off > guard by a chip manufacturer's decision to stop making one of the critical > chips used in the model 98. They bought a one-time buy of chips to service > future model 98 repairs but had to stop making the model 98. Any other scope > meters from other companies that offer this feature? > > Thanks, > > > Jason > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording > > > > Yes, exactly. I use a Fluke 97 scopemeter and pick off the crank trigger > signal and the signal to the coil on DIS cars or use an inductive pickup on > the plug wire. > > jc > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ira > Emus writes: > > > > << At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: > > >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition > timing > > >at the engine. > > > > I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC > > crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if > you > > had the meter or something similar. > > > > Ira > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > >> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 10:25:44 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA31481 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:25:44 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA31470 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:25:30 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.16]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010308182515.GKHE10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:25:15 -0500 Message-ID: <016801c0a7fd$24bffbe0$100ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: Subject: Re: CNP coils Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:25:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: "Bob Wooten" > what book are you talking about? A book showing all the AC Delco Pigtails. what does it cross reference (from what to > what)? Pics of connetor to part number, and connector by item to part no. does it have a part number on the cover that I can have him order? My 96 catalog is Part No., 16A-101 Bruce > > BW > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Bruce Plecan > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:19 PM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > > If a store carries AC Spark Plugs they have access to ordering the book. > Matter of fact they can order a book for you. Mine is getting seriously > old now, but as I recall was $5. Sounds like you give up way too easy, > also, pays to make friends. > Bruce > > > > From: "James Ballenger" > > Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that > > that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else.. > > The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and > > dont have a cross ref to Gm part #. The local AC Delco suppliers, namely > GM > > dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have > to > > do some traveling to get to one. That gmpartsdirect site is great, too > bad > > I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up. > > > > James Ballenger > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > >Behalf Of Bruce Plecan > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM > > >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > > > > > > > > > >Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a > > >Pigtail / Connector > > >Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced. > > >Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "James Ballenger" > > > > > >> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am > > >looking for the > > >> harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I > > >might find > > >some > > >> harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or > > >won't help me > > >> out on this one. > > >> James Ballenger > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------- > > >------------- > > >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" > > >(without the quotes) > > >in the body of a message (not the subject) to > > >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 10:43:49 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA31774 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:43:49 -0800 Received: from protactinium ([194.73.73.176]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA31770 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:43:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [194.73.73.176] claimed to be protactinium Received: from [213.122.200.252] (helo=z2s3l4) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14b5Nv-00046U-00 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:43:36 +0000 Message-ID: <005f01c0a7ff$fff7c1a0$fcc87ad5@z2s3l4> From: "Huw Scourfield" To: Subject: Fw: Positive edge triggered ignition module Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:45:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org OK, since no-one knows of any UK based models using this, how about World-wide? Surely there must be some, don't want to be building inverting circuits. Huw ----- Original Message ----- From: Huw Scourfield To: <> Sent: 07 March 2001 18:59 Subject: Positive edge triggered ignition module > Anyone know what vehicle might use a +ve edge triggered constant energy > module?, needs to be sold in UK really for availability etc. Thinking of > buying one of Perfect Powers cheaper ignition controllers. > Thanks, > Huw > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 10:59:35 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA32102 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:59:35 -0800 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA32098; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 10:59:29 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114] claimed to be fw-austin.austin.arm.com Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id MAA24956; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:59:28 -0600 Received: from unknown(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (V5.0) id xma024954; Thu, 8 Mar 01 12:59:06 -0600 Received: from arm.com (auspc21 [192.168.3.121]) by aussun1.austin.arm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28379; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:59:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3AA7D571.5A3F294D@arm.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:54:41 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gmecm@diy-efi.org, diy_efi Subject: WWW page updates Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org 1) Bob Valentine has written a tuning document for the 1227730 ECM. It's on the gmecm page, under ECM info then 1227730. 2) Chet Wagner sent me some pdf files of an article he found on the internet about an ECM testbench. It includes a pattern for making a PCB board, but the description is a little thin. It was originally from the A Tech Traning page (www.atechtraining.com). It's also on the gmecm page, under projects then ECM testbench. --steve -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com ARM,Inc. www.arm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 11:13:22 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32395 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:13:22 -0800 Received: from dribble.cme.nist.gov (dribble.cme.nist.gov [129.6.32.31]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA32390 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:13:15 -0800 Received: from geras (geras.ped.cme.nist.gov [129.6.72.125]) by dribble.cme.nist.gov (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18374 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:13:09 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.1.20010308141239.00c2b2b0@mailhub.cme.nist.gov> X-Sender: brenegar@mailhub.cme.nist.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 14:13:09 -0500 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: Brian Renegar Subject: Re: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] In-Reply-To: <000d01c0a7fd$290f31c0$a4d1fea9@oemcomputer> References: <22.12dd5331.27d7f91d@aol.com> <002b01c0a7fb$def06420$5ecdfea9@jrh> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org There's one on ebay here: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=567361311 Brian >There should be a couple sites that you could get a good refurbished 98 >from--I'll dig them up. > >Lyndon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 11:41:37 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA32705 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:41:37 -0800 Received: from front001.cluster1.charter.net (outbound.charter.net [24.216.159.200]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA32700 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:41:31 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host outbound.charter.net [24.216.159.200] claimed to be front001.cluster1.charter.net Received: from [63.147.183.166] (HELO ares) by front001.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with SMTP id 25406292 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 14:40:58 -0500 From: "David Gregory" To: Subject: RE: wiring diagram for Honda 1600 DOHC "ZC" engine Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:51:20 -0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <3AA7CAD4.31145.BD940C@localhost> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org what you need is a Helms Manual( www.helminc.com ) Also you should check out www.hybrid.honda-perf.org and www.crx.honda-perf.org. Those guys can help you for sure. But if i were you i'd get the Helms, no matter what (they are the same as the "official" honda shop manual) HTH, David P.S. if you have more questions, you can email me off list, dcg1174@tntech.edu, as this is decidedly off topic -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Ade + Lamb Chop Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 12:09 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: OT: wiring diagram for Honda 1600 DOHC "ZC" engine Hi All, I have a DOHC non-vtec honda engine from a CRX (89) and an ECU from an 88 honda integra ex16 (same engine). Both cars are UK spec. I am after a efi wiring diagrams so that I can get the engine to run. I have a haynes manual that covers the US SOHC CRXs will that be the same system? Thanx, Ade ICQ. 75653589 www.adesite.co.uk ade.honda-mini.co.uk www.mini-list.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 12:08:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA00429 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:08:33 -0800 Received: from lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (lsmls01.we.mediaone.net [24.130.1.20]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA00425 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:08:27 -0800 Received: from whirlwind.CamaroElectronics.com (we-24-30-105-68.we.mediaone.net [24.30.105.68]) by lsmls01.we.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f28K8Qj24722 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:08:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010308120711.00d823d0@mail.camaroelectronics.com> X-Sender: ira%camaroelectronics.com@mail.camaroelectronics.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:07:49 -0800 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: Ira Emus Subject: Re: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] In-Reply-To: <002b01c0a7fb$def06420$5ecdfea9@jrh> References: <22.12dd5331.27d7f91d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org At 01:16 PM 3/8/01 -0500, you wrote: >Thanks for the information. I called Fluke and they confirmed that the model >98 can perform spark advance and rpm measurement and recording (to a PC). >One problem - they don't make the Fluke model 98 anymore and it does not >currently have a replacement either. I was told that they got caught off >guard by a chip manufacturer's decision to stop making one of the critical >chips used in the model 98. They bought a one-time buy of chips to service >future model 98 repairs but had to stop making the model 98. Any other scope You can find 98's on Ebay for around $1700. Ira ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 12:20:18 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA00560 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:20:18 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id MAA00549 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:20:00 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-47.fwi.com [209.84.174.112]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA03744; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:19:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004001c0a80d$bac9c340$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: "GMECM" Cc: "DIY_EFI" Subject: mini GM 2 bar MAP sensor? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:23:58 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Does anyone know if a mini 2 bar GM MAP sensor exists (similar in size to the mini 1 bar MAP sensor used on the newer GM engines like the LS1)? Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 13:04:06 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA01045 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:04:06 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA01039 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:03:53 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-36.fwi.com [209.84.174.101]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA03275; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:03:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c0a813$dc59ede0$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: "GMECM" Cc: "DIY_EFI" Subject: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data acquisition input? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:06:37 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Does anyone know what I need to do to build a circuit to be able to take standard GM temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, oil temp.) and produce a 0 to 10 volt output for our data acquisition system. We currently have 12 vdc and 13.8 vdc power available although we could add some other DC power supply if needed. Sorry if this seems basic but that is what happens when you let mechanical engineers start working with electronics and electrical systems. Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 13:18:00 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA01266 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:18:00 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id NAA01262 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:17:54 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.16]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010308211753.HFRM10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:17:53 -0500 Message-ID: <021501c0a815$42827780$100ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <000901c0a813$dc59ede0$5ecdfea9@jrh> Subject: Re: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data acquisition input? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:18:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Just cause the Datalogging allows 0-10 doesn't mean you have to use it. the display maybe customizable (?) to read just the 0-5 part anyway. Other then the air flow computation, the other stuff really isn't that critical. And things like IAT sensors are rather slow to change anyway Bruce > Does anyone know what I need to do to build a circuit to be able to take > standard GM temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, oil temp.) and produce a 0 to 10 > volt output for our data acquisition system. We currently have 12 vdc and > 13.8 vdc power available although we could add some other DC power supply if > needed. > > Sorry if this seems basic but that is what happens when you let mechanical > engineers start working with electronics and electrical systems. > > Thanks, > > > Jason > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 14:58:31 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id OAA02514 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:58:31 -0800 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com (imo-m06.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.161]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id OAA02510 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 14:58:25 -0800 From: Moofaloof@aol.com Received: from Moofaloof@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id o.f5.7e1f5b7 (5712) for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:57:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from web33.aolmail.aol.com (web33.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.9]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:57:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:57:43 EST Subject: Re: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org The '97 will do this measurement as well. Check ebay they come up for sale there all the time. $500 - $800. In a message dated Thu, 8 Mar 2001 1:40:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Programmer" writes: << Jason, There should be a couple sites that you could get a good refurbished 98 from--I'll dig them up. Lyndon ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason R. Haines To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:16 AM Subject: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] > Thanks for the information. I called Fluke and they confirmed that the model > 98 can perform spark advance and rpm measurement and recording (to a PC). > One problem - they don't make the Fluke model 98 anymore and it does not > currently have a replacement either. I was told that they got caught off > guard by a chip manufacturer's decision to stop making one of the critical > chips used in the model 98. They bought a one-time buy of chips to service > future model 98 repairs but had to stop making the model 98. Any other scope > meters from other companies that offer this feature? > > Thanks, > > > Jason > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording > > > > Yes, exactly. I use a Fluke 97 scopemeter and pick off the crank trigger > signal and the signal to the coil on DIS cars or use an inductive pickup on > the plug wire. > > jc > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ira > Emus writes: > > > > << At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: > > >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition > timing > > >at the engine. > > > > I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC > > crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if > you > > had the meter or something similar. > > > > Ira > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > >> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 15:19:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA02700 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:19:28 -0800 Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.61]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA02696 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 15:19:21 -0800 Received: from 207-172-76-1.s255.tnt1.fdk.md.dialup.rcn.com ([207.172.76.1]) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14b9gk-0004F3-00 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:19:19 -0500 From: Charles To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: EGT and thermocouples Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:19:26 -0500 Message-ID: References: <200103080900.BAA28339@hektor.valesh.com> In-Reply-To: <200103080900.BAA28339@hektor.valesh.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by hektor.valesh.com id PAA02697 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org On Thu, 8 Mar 2001 01:00:10 -0800, you wrote: >Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about >1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max >rpm. I have a thermocouple in the exit of my exhaust manifold, just upstream of the turbo. (Engine is a BMW 3.5 liter factory turbo six cylinder, 8:1 forged pistons, 275 degree cam, "log" manifold). I am running 15 psi boost with two large extra fuel injectors mounted upstream of the throttle body (engine is normally port-injected) and an MSD Boost Timing Master set to about 0.7 degree/lb boost. 35 degrees at the crank at 0 psi. Temps run about 950 F at idle (timing retarded for emissions), cruise is about 1200-1250 and WOT is 1600-1650 at 15 psi boost. With a small squirt of nitrous (single Fogger nozzle, 40 hp) it pegs the gauge which only has a scale to 1600. I don't keep it on long! Problem is thermocouple life. I first tried an open-junction (i.e.unprotected) and it lasted about 5 minutes. A 1/16" diameter Inconel sheathed unit worked for about 2 months of vigorous street driving before the end burned off. I'd love to find a fast K-type thermocouple that will not require a $40 replacement six times a year... -Charles '81 BMW 745i ------------------------------------------------- Tired of noise from Dulles Airport, BWI or National? Check out www.caan.org and call your Congressman! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 16:10:58 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA03172 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:10:58 -0800 Received: from perama01.erggroup.com (perama01.erggroup.com [203.23.26.2]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA03168 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:10:51 -0800 Subject: Re: Igniter & coil Theory of Op To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: "Dan Zorde" Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:10:17 +0800 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on aupera03/ERG_Group(Release 5.0.4 |June 8, 2000) at 09/03/2001 08:10:18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Does anyone know if there is a problem with the link for this document on the ftp site. When I click on it I get this reply "Due to malformed syntax, the request could not be understood by the server. The client should not repeat the request without modifications." I can download other stuf of the ftp site, so it seems there is something wrong with this one doc. Dan dzorde@erggroup.com Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:35:18 -0800 From: "Bob Wooten" Subject: Igniter & coil Theory of Op Evening all, earlier today I loaded into incoming a doc called "Igniter & Coil theory" as I am working on my little project I realize that the more I know the less I know & have to learn how to walk before I run. that being said, I finished the drawing today & would like a sanity check. if you don't mind check it out & let me know if I have told any cardinal lies, or if they are mostly venial ones. thanks, Bob Wooten r71chevy@earthlink.net www.r71camaro.homestead.com ---------------------------- ERG Group -------------------------- The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may only be read by the intended recipient. ----------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 16:11:37 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id QAA03180 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:11:37 -0800 Received: from mail.mpks.net (mpks.net [208.149.60.10]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id QAA03175 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 16:11:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host mpks.net [208.149.60.10] claimed to be mail.mpks.net Received: from gerald [208.149.61.22] by mail.mpks.net (SMTPD32-6.06) id AEC45DA8028A; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:07:32 -0600 Message-ID: <003f01c0a82d$c8e947a0$163d95d0@gerald> From: "Gerald Pelnar" To: References: <3AA7633B.8D2A5153@cruzers.com> Subject: Re: Winter gas vs summer gas Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:45:50 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org ----- Original Message ----- From: Ludis Langens > Has anyone here experienced problems with "winter" gas? Especially the > oxygenated, reformulated, winter gas sold in California in (I think) > November, December, and January? > > The previous two winters, the winter gas caused two of my vehicles to > occasionally ping under mild throttle conditions. Each year, by the > time the weather warmed up enough (February) to consider diagnosing the > pinging, the problem went away. One vehicle is PFI and the other has a > computer-carb. A neighbor reported similar problems with a TBI engine. Winter gas has a lower vapor pressure, so it vaporizes easier at low temps. I'm not sure how that affects how it burns, but it may have something to do with it. > This winter, I didn't have the pinging. Instead, the carb vehicle liked > to stall when the engine was cool. The engine acted/sounded like it > went totally pig rich, the rpms dropped, it started rich misfiring, and > eventually stalled. That sounds more like summer gas in cooler temps. It's not vaporizing (puddling in the manifold) and not mixing with the air so not burning. Did you not have any problems with the PFI car this year? Gerald Pelnar McPherson, KS wd0fyf@mpks.net http://www.mpks.net/homepage/wd0fyf/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 17:06:11 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA03910 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:06:11 -0800 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA03904 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:06:05 -0800 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:06:07 -0500 Received: from [206.15.142.228] by grolen.com id a0cc0.wrk; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:06:24 EDT Message-ID: <3AA8D320.3F7BB661@grolen.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:57:04 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@diy-efi.org" Subject: test message, don't read Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org you flunked. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 17:34:01 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA04690 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:34:01 -0800 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA04668 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:33:39 -0800 Received: from pacbell ([63.196.112.239]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G9W00L5YPM203@mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:32:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:32:27 -0800 From: Carl Summers Subject: RE: test message, don't read In-reply-to: <3AA8D320.3F7BB661@grolen.com> To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I didn't read it. :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Shannen Durphey Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 4:57 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: test message, don't read you flunked. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 17:39:21 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id RAA04872 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:39:21 -0800 Received: from postal.grolen.com (postal.grolen.com [216.64.96.5]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id RAA04860 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:39:06 -0800 Received: from wg.grolen.com (unverified [216.64.96.6]) by postal.grolen.com (Rockliffe SMTPRA 2.1.4) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:39:08 -0500 Received: from [206.15.142.228] by grolen.com id a4ef0.wrk; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:39:30 EDT Message-ID: <3AA8DAE2.201D6711@grolen.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:30:10 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "gmecm@diy-efi.org" , "diy_efi@diy-efi.org" Subject: To last year's powwow attendees... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Sorry for the double post. Trying to determine better/best lodgings for this year. If you don't mind contacting me offlist and letting me know where you stayed, what they charged? Thanks. Shannen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 18:26:39 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id SAA06393 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:26:39 -0800 Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com (imo-m02.mx.aol.com [64.12.136.5]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id SAA06388 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:26:32 -0800 From: ECMnut@aol.com Received: from ECMnut@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id o.d8.359cde1 (16790) for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:25:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:25:55 EST Subject: Re: test message, don't read To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org In a message dated 3/8/01 8:40:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, InTech@writeme.com writes: > > I didn't read it. :) > Hows it goin Carl? Mike V ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 19:22:16 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA07268 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:22:16 -0800 Received: from morphine.autolinq.com (morphine.autolinq.com [207.96.225.42]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA07264 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:22:09 -0800 Received: from psycode.com ([207.253.206.160]) by morphine.autolinq.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id 193 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:26:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3AA84BDC.1C3B8DAF@psycode.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:19:56 -0500 From: Nigel Heron X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@diy-efi.org" Subject: fuel rail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org hi, i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet aluminum. What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? thanks, -nigel. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 19:30:57 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA07458 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:30:57 -0800 Received: from falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA07454 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:30:51 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-64.156.202.233.SanDiego1.Level3.net [64.156.202.233]) by falcon.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA14358 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:30:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: Subject: RE: CNP coils Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:31:24 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 In-Reply-To: <016801c0a7fd$24bffbe0$100ac9d8@brucescompute> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org thanks Bruce, as usual a plethora of useful information. BW -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Bruce Plecan Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:25 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: CNP coils From: "Bob Wooten" > what book are you talking about? A book showing all the AC Delco Pigtails. what does it cross reference (from what to > what)? Pics of connetor to part number, and connector by item to part no. does it have a part number on the cover that I can have him order? My 96 catalog is Part No., 16A-101 Bruce > > BW > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Bruce Plecan > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 1:19 PM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > > If a store carries AC Spark Plugs they have access to ordering the book. > Matter of fact they can order a book for you. Mine is getting seriously > old now, but as I recall was $5. Sounds like you give up way too easy, > also, pays to make friends. > Bruce > > > > From: "James Ballenger" > > Thank you for pointing out the obvious... In the message below I said that > > that was not a good option for me and I was looking for something else.. > > The local autostores are willing to help, but don't carry the pigtails and > > dont have a cross ref to Gm part #. The local AC Delco suppliers, namely > GM > > dealerships, are less than enthusiatic about looking up parts and I have > to > > do some traveling to get to one. That gmpartsdirect site is great, too > bad > > I couldn't get a harness based on the part I was looking up. > > > > James Ballenger > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > >Behalf Of Bruce Plecan > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 11:24 AM > > >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > >Subject: Re: CNP coils > > > > > > > > > > > >Any AC/Delco supplier should be able to get a hold of a > > >Pigtail / Connector > > >Catalog. Has pics, and connectors cross referenced. > > >Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "James Ballenger" > > > > > >> Also, I have quite a few GM part #'s for sensors and I am > > >looking for the > > >> harness side for hooking up. Anyone have any ideas where I > > >might find > > >some > > >> harness information? The local auto stores don't have it or > > >won't help me > > >> out on this one. > > >> James Ballenger > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------- > > >------------- > > >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" > > >(without the quotes) > > >in the body of a message (not the subject) to > > >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 19:51:58 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA07821 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:51:58 -0800 Received: from sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au (innovative.iinet.net.au [203.59.144.24]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA07801 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 19:51:40 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host innovative.iinet.net.au [203.59.144.24] claimed to be sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id LAA13043 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:51:33 +0800 Received: from UNKNOWN(203.6.142.20), claiming to be "flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au" via SMTP by innovative.iinet.net.au, id smtpdNyIkNw; Fri Mar 9 03:51:10 2001 Received: (from bernie@localhost) by flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id LAA26164 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:51:08 +0800 From: Bernd Felsche Message-Id: <200103090351.LAA26164@flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au> Subject: Re: fuel rail In-Reply-To: <3AA84BDC.1C3B8DAF@psycode.com> from Nigel Heron at "Mar 8, 2001 10:19:56 pm" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:51:07 +0800 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Nigel Heron tapped away at the keyboard with: > i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of > billet aluminum. > What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a > basic guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, > etc.? Sorry; no hard and fast formulae... But it would also depend on injection strategy; batch/sequential firing including any possible overlapping of duty cycles with sequential. Also, coming into the equation is the fuel pump delivery rate and pressure. The location of the pressure regulator also comes into the equation(s). I'm sure that one could sit down and work it out from scratch. My initial instinct would be to verify that the fuel pump is up to the job (i.e. capable of feeding all injectors at 100% duty cycle at the required pressure), and then look at the response of the pressure regulator. Given that the amount of fuel injected is very small, any steady-state analysis of the flow properties of the fuel rail would be a waste of time. There are 2 reasons why fuel rails are sized in a particular way: 1. to keep a fairly-constant fuel pressure during injection, and 2. to reduce the noise of pressure pulses. Both of those can be helped by using a pulse-dampers which is common in Bosch pulsed-injection systems (though VW tended not to use them on Digifant at least, perhaps because of high fuel pump delivery pressure or flexible mounting of the fuel rail). These dampers are small pressure accumulators, typically mounted on the fuel rail. You can always "cheat" and look at the size of the fuel rail(s) on a higher-performance production vehicle. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! | X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature| / \ and postings | to help me spread! | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 20:17:41 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA08785 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:17:41 -0800 Received: from mail.starstream.net (mail.starstream.net [206.170.160.4]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA08778 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:17:30 -0800 Received: from computer ([64.168.111.33]) by mail.starstream.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-70725U6000L600S0V35) with SMTP id net for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:05:33 -0800 Message-ID: <007d01c0a84f$983d2280$216fa840@computer> From: romans@starstream.net (romans, mark) To: References: <22.12dd5331.27d7f91d@aol.com> <002b01c0a7fb$def06420$5ecdfea9@jrh> Subject: Re: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:15:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Hi Jason: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=567361311 Fluke 98, 900.00, no bids so far, 2 days left. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason R. Haines" To: Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:16 AM Subject: Fluke model 98 [was Re: spark timing measurement and recording] > Thanks for the information. I called Fluke and they confirmed that the model > 98 can perform spark advance and rpm measurement and recording (to a PC). > One problem - they don't make the Fluke model 98 anymore and it does not > currently have a replacement either. I was told that they got caught off > guard by a chip manufacturer's decision to stop making one of the critical > chips used in the model 98. They bought a one-time buy of chips to service > future model 98 repairs but had to stop making the model 98. Any other scope > meters from other companies that offer this feature? > > Thanks, > > > Jason > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: spark timing measurement and recording > > > > Yes, exactly. I use a Fluke 97 scopemeter and pick off the crank trigger > signal and the signal to the coil on DIS cars or use an inductive pickup on > the plug wire. > > jc > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:37:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ira > Emus writes: > > > > << At 08:21 AM 3/7/01 -0500, you wrote: > > >Has anyone used any equipment to actually measure and record ignition > timing > > >at the engine. > > > > I have a Fluke Model 98 scopemeter that will do this if there is a TDC > > crank pickup. Can't imagine it would be that hard to rig up a pickup if > you > > had the meter or something similar. > > > > Ira > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > >> > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 20:30:43 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA09087 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:30:43 -0800 Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (chmls05.mediaone.net [24.147.1.143]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA09082 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:30:36 -0800 Received: from mediaone.net (setheahsd.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.247.152]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f294UVS09680 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 23:30:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3AA85C68.4F4E98E@mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:30:35 -0500 From: Seth X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: fuel rail References: <3AA84BDC.1C3B8DAF@psycode.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org http://www.rossmachine.com/racing/ these guys make custom 16v VW fuel rails from billet. you might want to see what they have done. -Seth Nigel Heron wrote: > > hi, > > i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet > aluminum. > What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic > guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? > > thanks, > -nigel. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 20:42:42 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA09263 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:42:42 -0800 Received: from fw-austin.austin.arm.com (firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id UAA09258 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:42:36 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host firewall-user@ns2.arm.com [208.202.62.114] claimed to be fw-austin.austin.arm.com Received: by fw-austin.austin.arm.com; id WAA26362; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:42:35 -0600 Received: from unknown(192.168.3.3) by fw-austin.austin.arm.com via smap (V5.0) id xma026360; Thu, 8 Mar 01 22:42:01 -0600 Received: from arm.com (auspc21 [192.168.3.121]) by aussun1.austin.arm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19576 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 22:42:01 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3AA85E39.AD29A2A0@arm.com> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 22:38:17 -0600 From: steve ravet X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Igniter & coil Theory of Op References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org it downloaded OK for me, I suspect the problem is the spaces and "&" in the filename. I've renamed it to ignitor_coil_theory.doc, try that and see if it works. --steve Dan Zorde wrote: > Does anyone know if there is a problem with the link for this document on > the ftp site. When I click on it I get this reply "Due to malformed > syntax, the request could not be understood by the server. The client > should not repeat the request without modifications." I can download > other stuf of the ftp site, so it seems there is something wrong with this > one doc. --steve -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com ARM,Inc. www.arm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 20:59:35 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA09448 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:59:35 -0800 Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA09443 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:59:28 -0800 Received: from pacbell ([63.196.112.239]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0G9W00AHYZ5LN6@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 20:58:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:58:33 -0800 From: Carl Summers Subject: RE: fuel rail In-reply-to: <3AA85C68.4F4E98E@mediaone.net> To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Like someone else mentioned here earlier, there is no sure fire way to know the correct inside diameter,,,lot's of variables.... if you are making your own use as large as you can and you might even think about a fuel dampener as well. Datalogging the pressure in the rail under conditions is the only way to know if you have a harmonic problem. hth's -Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Seth Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:31 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: fuel rail http://www.rossmachine.com/racing/ these guys make custom 16v VW fuel rails from billet. you might want to see what they have done. -Seth Nigel Heron wrote: > > hi, > > i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet > aluminum. > What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic > guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? > > thanks, > -nigel. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Thu Mar 8 21:24:30 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id VAA09840 for diy_efi-outgoing; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:24:30 -0800 Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id VAA09833 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:24:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103] claimed to be pimout4-int.prodigy.net Received: from sacnt01pdc01 (nas-108-127.oakland-t.navipath.net [64.20.108.127]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f295O1I53508 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:24:06 -0500 From: "lance" To: Subject: RE: Newbie... Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:24:11 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 In-Reply-To: <3AA7CD2C.E3A4BBE0@arm.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Rumor has it the DSM guys have completely disassembled their code and they have a guy who has written some interesting mods (2 stage rev limiter to build boost at the line, etc). I'd contact Dave Buschur The4Bangr@aol.com and ask about DSMs. He just recently joined the Toyota Supra Owner's group and has been very open about his findings even though he is a well known competitor in Import Drag racing. Good luck! Lance -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of steve ravet Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:19 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Newbie... Chris, it seems like there's a ton of information for GM cars, somewhat less for Fords, and basically none for anything else. So it might be hard to find out about your Eclipse. But, you can look around at the gmecm page and learn a lot about GM EFI strategy. Another great place is the archives of both diy-efi and gmecm. Both archives can be downloaded from their respective WWW pages, and searched with a text editor or word processor. I wouldn't try reading from end to end, but browse around in them and read stuff that looks interesting. There isn't a good place to start, that I know of at least, other than read a lot and ask questions. Good luck! --steve > Chris Remshaw wrote: > > Hi all, > I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I > have only begun to understand any of it. I am a computer programmer, > but a more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into > programming ECU's. Where is a good place to start (on the web, off > the web, etc.)? I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done > modifications to my own. I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS. > > Thanks, > Chris Remshaw -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com ARM,Inc. www.arm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 00:55:34 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id AAA11345 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:55:34 -0800 Received: from blackie.cruzers.com (cruzers.com [205.215.232.2]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id AAA11340 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:55:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host cruzers.com [205.215.232.2] claimed to be blackie.cruzers.com Received: from cruzers.com (robbie-122.cruzers.com [209.165.194.122]) by blackie.cruzers.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA02708 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:57:25 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3AA89B08.33881F01@cruzers.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 00:58:04 -0800 From: Ludis Langens X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Winter gas vs summer gas References: <3AA7633B.8D2A5153@cruzers.com> <003f01c0a82d$c8e947a0$163d95d0@gerald> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Gerald Pelnar wrote: > > That sounds more like summer gas in cooler temps. It's not vaporizing > (puddling in the manifold) and not mixing with the air so not burning. Did > you not have any problems with the PFI car this year? The fuel injected car is sleeping in a dry garage for the winter. The problem occurred at air temperatures of 40 to 60F. There was also one instance of lousy idling in a traffic jam on a warm sunny 65F day. Note to self: Get gas from Nevada/Arizona/Oregon when doing chip tuning. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 01:24:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA11730 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:24:17 -0800 Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com ([24.93.35.226]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA11726 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:24:10 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [24.93.35.226] claimed to be Mail.austin.rr.com Received: from mail pickup service by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:19:13 -0600 Received: from sm3.texas.rr.com ([24.93.35.210]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 04:05:08 -0600 Received: from hektor.valesh.com (hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) by sm3.texas.rr.com (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f269uuU19544; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 03:56:57 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA08424 for diy_efi-digest-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:00:23 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA08410 for DIY_EFI-Digest-Send@lists.diy-efi.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Message-Id: <200103060900.BAA08410@hektor.valesh.com> From: DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner@diy-efi.org (DIY_EFI Digest) To: DIY_EFI-Digest@lists.diy-efi.org Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #520 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, March 6 2001 Volume 05 : Number 520 In this issue: Re: CS-453 Basic TPS circuit help needed RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI Tuning with EGT RE: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: Troubleshooting RE: Tuning with EGT RE: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: $175 CO meter? Re: $175 CO meter? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:44:40 +1100 From: Wayne Macdonald Subject: Re: CS-453 Has anyone found a replacement for the cherry CS-453 driver ? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:14:51 -0500 From: Rodney_L_Wiggins@keybank.com Subject: Basic TPS circuit help needed Does any one have a schematic for a circuit I can use to convert the 0-1 volt signal from my stock TPS to the 0-5 volt signal required by my accel unit. I am piggybacking the accel setup on the stock settup and to allow the stock computer to handle timing and idle control (for now). Anyway, I could run both TPSs if there is good reason to go through the fabrication of such a setup. I am quite weak on the EE side of things so any guidance would be appreciated. I understand the basic use of an op-amp but I don't know what sort of regulation or protection is necessary to make this circuit reliable in an automotive application. And I surely don't want to risk hurting either ECU. TIA! Rod - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:41:21 -0500 From: "Shirley, Mark R" Subject: RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A582.589C3E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, I've seen the new software too. Pretty nice. - -----Original Message----- From: Bob Wooten [mailto:r71chevy@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:25 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI Tom, I read an article about a gent that worked for Accels parent company that just built this wicked 1000 hp turbo motor. he was using the latest version of the CalMap software (CalMap 2001 or something like that). this is supposed to go along with their next gen ECM's that I hear are not out yet. from what I understand, both are supposed to be worth the wait. one of the guys on this list (Pretty sure it was this list), just got the new eval version of it & was goo goo about it. he said that he had to call them to get them to send it to him. from what it sounds Accel is pretty serious about this now & are making stuff to compete with the WBO2 units & w/easier programmability. Good luck Bob Wooten - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of RSRACE@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:01 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI Does anyone have the software for Accel DFI. I am looking at purchasing it for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and possibly save $200. E-mail me if you have info. Thanks Tom - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A582.589C3E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, I've seen the new software too.  Pretty nice. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Wooten [mailto:r71chevy@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:25 AM
To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI

Tom,
 
I read an article about a gent that worked for Accels parent company that just built this wicked 1000 hp turbo motor.  he was using the latest version of the CalMap software (CalMap 2001 or something like that).  this is supposed to go along with their next gen ECM's that I hear are not out yet.  from what I understand, both are supposed to be worth the wait.  one of the guys on this list (Pretty sure it was this list), just got the new eval version of it & was goo goo about it.  he said that he had to call them to get them to send it to him. 
 
from what it sounds Accel is pretty serious about this now & are making stuff to compete with the WBO2 units & w/easier programmability.
 
Good luck
Bob Wooten
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of RSRACE@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:01 PM
To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org
Subject: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI

Does anyone have the software for Accel DFI.  I am looking at purchasing it
for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and possibly save
$200.  E-mail me if you have info.

Thanks
Tom
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A582.589C3E60-- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:41:30 -0800 (PST) From: Grant Crockett Subject: Tuning with EGT Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to optimum performance, without detonation. end - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:26:59 -0000 From: "Rich M" Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to indicate onset of detonation? Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:37:22 -0500 From: "Jason R. Haines" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We have found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to 90% of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place (in the chamber or in the exhaust). Just my $0.02 Jason > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:51:22 -0500 From: "justin ivan" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT I have seen various discussion on this issue. I would agree that tuning by EGT alone can be dangerous becuase it can occur at different AFR's. Likewise tuning with AFR alone can also be a limitation becuase you don't know how close to the threshold before detonation you are. My comments apply largely to turbo efi cars as that is my experience but it is very possible to be at desired AFR but be 100+ deg F cool on the EGT, that means that ther is some room for more power to be made. I feel that both are probably better then one or the other. That being said I would rather have an AFR if I was limited to only one. Justin >From: "Jason R. Haines" >Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT >Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:37:22 -0500 > >We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We >have >found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time >constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to >90% >of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors >are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause >similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place >(in >the chamber or in the exhaust). > >Just my $0.02 > >Jason > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the >quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the >quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:34:58 -0800 From: "Walter Sherwin" Subject: Re: Troubleshooting > I am having trouble with my fuel injection.Some co workers and I are stumped > as to what is wrong. > > The Integrator will bounce between 240-255 and 0. At idle it will read in > the upper 200's. It will hit 0 with throttle tip in and go back and forth > between 2xx and 0 during driving. 02 fluctuates and crosscounts. All other > sensors seem to be reading ok. Block learn is 124 to 128, as seen on a Snap > on Scanner. > >Chris Does your vehicle have an actual driveability problem that you are attempting to cure, or is this just something that you've noticed while staring at the scantool periodically? I had a similar situation once, and eventually decided it was a software and/or scan tool glitch. The problem only occurred when using my Snap-On MT2500 scan tool, but was absent when using a Tech I. The vehicle ran fine. Every once in awhile, one frame of data would get messed up, and then the next would typically be fine. Never more than 2 messed frames in a row. The only two parameters that were affected were the INT and the ESC status. INT would read funny (ie: 27.....41.....48......0......63.....66......70......225.....232......... real numbers from scans of that vehicle). ESC would toggle from NO to YES whenever the INT was messed. If you don't have an actual driveability problem, and if you don't think that your computer is suffering some form of reset (monitor the EST bypass line, and power & ground lines, with an oscilloscope to look for glitches), then I would ignore the whole deal. Walt. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:35:17 -0600 From: don.broadus@exeloncorp.com Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Has anybody tried the new RTD type EGT that are on the newer cars they are supposed to be much faster than thermocouples > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason R. Haines [SMTP:jhaines@lingenfelter.com] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:37 AM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We > have > found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time > constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to > 90% > of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors > are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause > similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place > (in > the chamber or in the exhaust). > > Just my $0.02 > > Jason > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ********************************************************************************* This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corp. proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corp. family of Companies. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. Thank You. ********************************************************************************* - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:56:59 -0600 From: "Josh Pullen" Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT EGT's can really only indicate that you may be running lean or not. But there are can be other causes for detonation than just a lean condition. - -- Josh Pullen 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo http://jmpvm.dyndns.org - ---- "Rich M" wrote: > Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to > indicate > onset of detonation? > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > > the quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:40:58 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT EGT's are about reaching the thermal limits of the engine. No more, nor less. You can change the EGTs by changing timing, and fuel, etc.. You monitor EGTs, not tune to a specific EGT, though folks often fall into it worked for Mr ABC, so it is a Golden Rule. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Pullen" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:56 PM Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT > EGT's can really only indicate that you may be running lean or not. > But there are can be other causes for detonation than just a lean condition. > > -- > Josh Pullen > 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo > http://jmpvm.dyndns.org > > > ---- "Rich M" wrote: > > Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to > > indicate > > onset of detonation? > > Rich > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > > > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > > > end > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---------- > > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > > > the quotes) > > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. > Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:24:00 -0500 From: "Larry Heath" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 20:27:36 -0500 From: bjanesi@juno.com Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? "Rich M" wrote... >in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the > unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the shop - > we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing it > to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use. > However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different > unit....... The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models - one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand). I went so far as to buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after purchase. IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that was in a very clean state of tune. I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust CO measurement. Brad ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:36:57 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? Sounds like an update on the old Heathkit CO2 meter kit. Sensor was just part of a whetstone bridge. State of the art circa 1975 Bruce From: > "Rich M" wrote... > >in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the > > unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the > shop - > > we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing > it > > to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use. > > However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different > > unit....... > > The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models - > one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand). I went so far as to > buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after > purchase. IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly > around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that > was in a very clean state of tune. > > I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be > interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust > CO measurement. > > Brad - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #520 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 01:50:56 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA12036 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:50:56 -0800 Received: from deborah.paradise.net.nz (deborah.paradise.net.nz [203.96.152.32]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA12030 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:50:42 -0800 Received: from workstation (203-79-69-191.apx0.paradise.net.nz [203.79.69.191]) by deborah.paradise.net.nz (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f299oWA07798 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:50:36 +1300 (NZDT) Message-ID: <008d01c0a87e$92de9420$01010080@workstation> From: "Tony Bryant" To: Subject: Re: fuel rail Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:51:49 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > >i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet >aluminum. >What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic >guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? > Big as practical. The only disadvantage in going "too big" is weight. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 01:55:10 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA12090 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:55:10 -0800 Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com ([24.93.35.226]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id BAA12080 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:54:51 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [24.93.35.226] claimed to be Mail.austin.rr.com Received: from mail pickup service by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:28:50 -0600 Received: from sm3.texas.rr.com ([24.93.35.210]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 04:05:08 -0600 Received: from hektor.valesh.com (hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) by sm3.texas.rr.com (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f269uuU19544; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 03:56:57 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA08424 for diy_efi-digest-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:00:23 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA08410 for DIY_EFI-Digest-Send@lists.diy-efi.org; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Message-Id: <200103060900.BAA08410@hektor.valesh.com> From: DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner@diy-efi.org (DIY_EFI Digest) To: DIY_EFI-Digest@lists.diy-efi.org Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #520 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, March 6 2001 Volume 05 : Number 520 In this issue: Re: CS-453 Basic TPS circuit help needed RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI Tuning with EGT RE: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: Troubleshooting RE: Tuning with EGT RE: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: Tuning with EGT Re: $175 CO meter? Re: $175 CO meter? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:44:40 +1100 From: Wayne Macdonald Subject: Re: CS-453 Has anyone found a replacement for the cherry CS-453 driver ? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:14:51 -0500 From: Rodney_L_Wiggins@keybank.com Subject: Basic TPS circuit help needed Does any one have a schematic for a circuit I can use to convert the 0-1 volt signal from my stock TPS to the 0-5 volt signal required by my accel unit. I am piggybacking the accel setup on the stock settup and to allow the stock computer to handle timing and idle control (for now). Anyway, I could run both TPSs if there is good reason to go through the fabrication of such a setup. I am quite weak on the EE side of things so any guidance would be appreciated. I understand the basic use of an op-amp but I don't know what sort of regulation or protection is necessary to make this circuit reliable in an automotive application. And I surely don't want to risk hurting either ECU. TIA! Rod - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 09:41:21 -0500 From: "Shirley, Mark R" Subject: RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A582.589C3E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yes, I've seen the new software too. Pretty nice. - -----Original Message----- From: Bob Wooten [mailto:r71chevy@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:25 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI Tom, I read an article about a gent that worked for Accels parent company that just built this wicked 1000 hp turbo motor. he was using the latest version of the CalMap software (CalMap 2001 or something like that). this is supposed to go along with their next gen ECM's that I hear are not out yet. from what I understand, both are supposed to be worth the wait. one of the guys on this list (Pretty sure it was this list), just got the new eval version of it & was goo goo about it. he said that he had to call them to get them to send it to him. from what it sounds Accel is pretty serious about this now & are making stuff to compete with the WBO2 units & w/easier programmability. Good luck Bob Wooten - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of RSRACE@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:01 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI Does anyone have the software for Accel DFI. I am looking at purchasing it for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and possibly save $200. E-mail me if you have info. Thanks Tom - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A582.589C3E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, I've seen the new software too.  Pretty nice. 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Wooten [mailto:r71chevy@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 1:25 AM
To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI

Tom,
 
I read an article about a gent that worked for Accels parent company that just built this wicked 1000 hp turbo motor.  he was using the latest version of the CalMap software (CalMap 2001 or something like that).  this is supposed to go along with their next gen ECM's that I hear are not out yet.  from what I understand, both are supposed to be worth the wait.  one of the guys on this list (Pretty sure it was this list), just got the new eval version of it & was goo goo about it.  he said that he had to call them to get them to send it to him. 
 
from what it sounds Accel is pretty serious about this now & are making stuff to compete with the WBO2 units & w/easier programmability.
 
Good luck
Bob Wooten
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of RSRACE@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:01 PM
To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org
Subject: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI

Does anyone have the software for Accel DFI.  I am looking at purchasing it
for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and possibly save
$200.  E-mail me if you have info.

Thanks
Tom
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A582.589C3E60-- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 08:41:30 -0800 (PST) From: Grant Crockett Subject: Tuning with EGT Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to optimum performance, without detonation. end - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:26:59 -0000 From: "Rich M" Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to indicate onset of detonation? Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:37:22 -0500 From: "Jason R. Haines" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We have found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to 90% of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place (in the chamber or in the exhaust). Just my $0.02 Jason > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:51:22 -0500 From: "justin ivan" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT I have seen various discussion on this issue. I would agree that tuning by EGT alone can be dangerous becuase it can occur at different AFR's. Likewise tuning with AFR alone can also be a limitation becuase you don't know how close to the threshold before detonation you are. My comments apply largely to turbo efi cars as that is my experience but it is very possible to be at desired AFR but be 100+ deg F cool on the EGT, that means that ther is some room for more power to be made. I feel that both are probably better then one or the other. That being said I would rather have an AFR if I was limited to only one. Justin >From: "Jason R. Haines" >Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT >Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:37:22 -0500 > >We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We >have >found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time >constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to >90% >of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors >are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause >similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place >(in >the chamber or in the exhaust). > >Just my $0.02 > >Jason > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the >quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the >quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:34:58 -0800 From: "Walter Sherwin" Subject: Re: Troubleshooting > I am having trouble with my fuel injection.Some co workers and I are stumped > as to what is wrong. > > The Integrator will bounce between 240-255 and 0. At idle it will read in > the upper 200's. It will hit 0 with throttle tip in and go back and forth > between 2xx and 0 during driving. 02 fluctuates and crosscounts. All other > sensors seem to be reading ok. Block learn is 124 to 128, as seen on a Snap > on Scanner. > >Chris Does your vehicle have an actual driveability problem that you are attempting to cure, or is this just something that you've noticed while staring at the scantool periodically? I had a similar situation once, and eventually decided it was a software and/or scan tool glitch. The problem only occurred when using my Snap-On MT2500 scan tool, but was absent when using a Tech I. The vehicle ran fine. Every once in awhile, one frame of data would get messed up, and then the next would typically be fine. Never more than 2 messed frames in a row. The only two parameters that were affected were the INT and the ESC status. INT would read funny (ie: 27.....41.....48......0......63.....66......70......225.....232......... real numbers from scans of that vehicle). ESC would toggle from NO to YES whenever the INT was messed. If you don't have an actual driveability problem, and if you don't think that your computer is suffering some form of reset (monitor the EST bypass line, and power & ground lines, with an oscilloscope to look for glitches), then I would ignore the whole deal. Walt. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:35:17 -0600 From: don.broadus@exeloncorp.com Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT Has anybody tried the new RTD type EGT that are on the newer cars they are supposed to be much faster than thermocouples > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason R. Haines [SMTP:jhaines@lingenfelter.com] > Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:37 AM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT > > We used to use EGTs for tuning but have switched to individual AFRs. We > have > found the AFR to react much faster than the EGT. If you look at the time > constansts for most thermocouples, the amount of time required to get to > 90% > of the actual reading is often measured in seconds while the UEGO sensors > are measured in milliseconds. Also, you can be rich or lean and cause > similar EGT's to occur depending on where the combustion is taking place > (in > the chamber or in the exhaust). > > Just my $0.02 > > Jason > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ********************************************************************************* This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corp. proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corp. family of Companies. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. Thank You. ********************************************************************************* - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:56:59 -0600 From: "Josh Pullen" Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT EGT's can really only indicate that you may be running lean or not. But there are can be other causes for detonation than just a lean condition. - -- Josh Pullen 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo http://jmpvm.dyndns.org - ---- "Rich M" wrote: > Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to > indicate > onset of detonation? > Rich > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > end > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ---------- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > > the quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:40:58 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT EGT's are about reaching the thermal limits of the engine. No more, nor less. You can change the EGTs by changing timing, and fuel, etc.. You monitor EGTs, not tune to a specific EGT, though folks often fall into it worked for Mr ABC, so it is a Golden Rule. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Pullen" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 1:56 PM Subject: RE: Tuning with EGT > EGT's can really only indicate that you may be running lean or not. > But there are can be other causes for detonation than just a lean condition. > > -- > Josh Pullen > 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo > http://jmpvm.dyndns.org > > > ---- "Rich M" wrote: > > Hmmm, that's an interesting thought - can EGT be used in any way to > > indicate > > onset of detonation? > > Rich > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > > > Behalf Of Grant Crockett > > > Sent: 05 March 2001 16:42 > > > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > > > Subject: Tuning with EGT > > > > > > > > > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > > > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > > > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > > > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > > > > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > > > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > > > optimum performance, without detonation. > > > > > > end > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ---------- > > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without > > > the quotes) > > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. > Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:24:00 -0500 From: "Larry Heath" Subject: Re: Tuning with EGT Most guys that drag race use EGT to tune. Most of us look for a max of about 1200 to 1250 degrees F as the car crosses the finish line, i.e. max load max rpm. This is of course using fuels with very high octane ratings, generally no less than 105 octane and as much as 118, that are generally not prone to detonation even under extreme conditions. I lot of guys use the EGT's in tuning alcohol fueled engines, as the typical signs use to tune gas fired engines are generally not present, the alcohol fuel being very clean burning and has such a wide range of flammability. Most guys seem to use the same basic temp range as a max, although I have seen references to EGT's much lower than the 1200 to 1250 range as being ideal for max power. Thermocouples (K type) are generally fairly slow as far as response time goes, at least for the typical thermocouples used in this application. The faster the response rate of the couple the shorter the average life of the unit is. I have seen bare wire thermocouples with standard response times of as little as .004 sec, but these would not last any significant amount of time, in an exhaust gas environment. About the minimum wire size that would be usable as a EGT is .015" and this has about a .8 sec response time going from 100 to 800 degrees in 60 ft/sec gas. Along these same lines I have a question; does any have any info about tuning alcohol fueled engines using an O2 sensor or other similar sensor to allow A/F ratios to be determined on a much faster basis than the typical EGT thermocouple sensors. Later Larry - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Crockett" To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: Tuning with EGT > Has anybody done air-fuel mixture tuning with exhaust > gas temp rather than O2 sensor? I have read that the > thermocouple has a much quicker reaction time to high > heat/lean fuel conditions than an O2 sensor. > > If so, what are you getting for temperature readings? > I am wondering what temps (deg F) would equate to > optimum performance, without detonation. > > end > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 20:27:36 -0500 From: bjanesi@juno.com Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? "Rich M" wrote... >in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the > unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the shop - > we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing it > to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use. > However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different > unit....... The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models - one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand). I went so far as to buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after purchase. IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that was in a very clean state of tune. I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust CO measurement. Brad ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:36:57 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? Sounds like an update on the old Heathkit CO2 meter kit. Sensor was just part of a whetstone bridge. State of the art circa 1975 Bruce From: > "Rich M" wrote... > >in a green box it sounds like it may be made by 'Gunsons'. If it is the > > unit I'm thinking of, your conclusion is correct - best left in the > shop - > > we had one here at work for evaluation (albeit a bit unfairly comparing > it > > to an infra-red absorption meter) and it wasn't much use. > > However I may be completely wrong and thinking of a different > > unit....... > > The Gunson is the only one I have ever seen (okay, they make two models - > one with a digital gauge, the other a sweep hand). I went so far as to > buy one of these (the digital one), only to return shortly after > purchase. IMO, it is for very crude measurements - mine swung wildly > around a range of negative (?) PPM to over a hundred PPM on a car that > was in a very clean state of tune. > > I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be > interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust > CO measurement. > > Brad - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #520 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 03:47:24 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id DAA12863 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 03:47:24 -0800 Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com ([24.93.35.226]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA12855 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 03:46:52 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:14:50 -0600 Received: from sm3.texas.rr.com ([24.93.35.210]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:58:58 -0600 Received: from cornell.edu (cornell.edu [132.236.56.6]) by sm3.texas.rr.com (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f26DojU30606 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:50:45 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15072 for zcarter@austin.rr.com; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:58:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from hektor.valesh.com (hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) by cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15052 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:58:56 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA09541 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 05:25:21 -0800 Received: from westbyserver.mwt.net (westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA09537 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 05:25:15 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host westbyserver.westby.mwt.net [156.46.73.3] claimed to be westbyserver.mwt.net Received: from mwt.net (pm3-2-168.oakdale.mwt.net [207.190.90.168] (may be forged)) by westbyserver.mwt.net (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f26DPDD21012 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:25:14 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3AA4E515.121593AE@mwt.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 07:24:37 -0600 X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) From: steve X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.15-4mdk i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: : Re: $175 CO meter? References: <200103060900.BAA08410@hektor.valesh.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Nice meter but needs changes needed to read accurate regulate voltage into whetstone bridge then put a constant velocity pump on it . Remember to not go way lean it will invert and show rich. Nice meter just a bit slower than new wide band o2 meters but no sensor to change ever . Tune race car with one for years. Steve > Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:36:57 -0500 > From: "Bruce Plecan" > Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? > > Sounds like an update on the old Heathkit CO2 meter kit. > Sensor was just part of a whetstone bridge. > State of the art circa 1975 > Bruce ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 03:47:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id DAA12862 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 03:47:13 -0800 Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com ([24.93.35.226]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id DAA12854 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 03:46:52 -0800 From: Neil.Poersch@mts.mb.ca X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [24.93.35.226] claimed to be Mail.austin.rr.com Received: from mail pickup service by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:14:50 -0600 Received: from sm3.texas.rr.com ([24.93.35.210]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:16:19 -0600 Received: from cornell.edu (cornell.edu [132.236.56.6]) by sm3.texas.rr.com (8.11.0/8.11.1) with ESMTP id f26F85U15581 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:08:05 -0600 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04283 for zcarter@austin.rr.com; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:15:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from hektor.valesh.com (hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) by cornell.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04261 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:15:41 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA09854 for diy_efi-outgoing; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:39:47 -0800 Received: from pioneers1.mts.mb.ca (pioneers1.mts.mb.ca [142.160.2.11]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA09850 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:39:41 -0800 X-PH: V4.1@cornell.edu (Cornell Modified) Received: from smtp_mts.mts.mb.ca (smtp_mts.mts.mb.ca [142.160.162.230]) by pioneers1.mts.mb.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA19404 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:39:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: $175 CO meter? To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:39:13 -0600 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on SMTP_MTS/GW/MTS(Release 5.0.3 |March 21, 2000) at 03/06/2001 08:39:06 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Ditto that for me. The thought of using a cheap home CO meter is very enticing. As a home tuner I really don't care what the absolute value of a particular measurement is. I'm only interested in the relative magnitude. I would use this for tuning my motorcycle and a small portable unit would be very attractive. Obviously one would have to remove the sensor for insertion into the exhaust gas stream and make a DC supply but that should be easy. This could be a good example of the cost efficiencies of mass manufacturing allowing a non-standard use. Comments anyone? Neil > I suspect the $35 home CO meter may actually be more accurate, and I'd be interested to hear of your success (or failure) in using it for exhaust CO measurement. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 04:11:06 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id EAA13083 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:11:06 -0800 Received: from femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com [24.0.95.140]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id EAA13078 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:10:53 -0800 Received: from home.com ([24.9.222.204]) by femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010309121044.RQCW4561.femail13.sdc1.sfba.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:10:44 -0800 Message-ID: <3AA8C84D.A2488C91@home.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 07:10:53 -0500 From: Rob O X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Newbie... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Check out www.tmo.com, Buschur has no clue on disassembling code and will tell you that in his Northern Ohio way ROb_O lance wrote: > > Rumor has it the DSM guys have completely disassembled their code and they > have a guy who has written some interesting mods (2 stage rev limiter to > build boost at the line, etc). I'd contact Dave Buschur The4Bangr@aol.com > and ask about DSMs. He just recently joined the Toyota Supra Owner's group > and has been very open about his findings even though he is a well known > competitor in Import Drag racing. Good luck! > > Lance > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of steve ravet > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:19 AM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Newbie... > > Chris, it seems like there's a ton of information for GM cars, somewhat > less for Fords, and basically none for anything else. So it might be > hard to find out about your Eclipse. But, you can look around at the > gmecm page and learn a lot about GM EFI strategy. Another great place > is the archives of both diy-efi and gmecm. Both archives can be > downloaded from their respective WWW pages, and searched with a text > editor or word processor. I wouldn't try reading from end to end, but > browse around in them and read stuff that looks interesting. There > isn't a good place to start, that I know of at least, other than read a > lot and ask questions. Good luck! > > --steve > > > Chris Remshaw wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I > > have only begun to understand any of it. I am a computer programmer, > > but a more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into > > programming ECU's. Where is a good place to start (on the web, off > > the web, etc.)? I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done > > modifications to my own. I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS. > > > > Thanks, > > Chris Remshaw > > -- > Steve Ravet > steve.ravet@arm.com > ARM,Inc. > www.arm.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 04:17:23 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id EAA13172 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:17:23 -0800 Received: from mail.bae.co.uk (mail.bae.co.uk [141.245.40.233]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id EAA13168; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:17:08 -0800 Received: by mail.bae.co.uk (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA09209; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:20:41 GMT Received: from unknown (141.245.68.234) by BAe-DMZ via CSC. ID xaia08737; Fri, 9 Mar 01 12:19:47 GMT Received: from ngban8.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.229]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with ESMTP id <0G9X009JRJBMDS@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:14:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ngbauh.ng.bae.co.uk (unverified) by ngban8.ng.bae.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:30:44 +0000 Received: (from x400@localhost) by ngbauh.ng.bae.co.uk (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) id LAA19398; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:31:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: by GOLD 400; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:12:52 +0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:12:52 +0000 From: Mike Blakey Subject: Accuracy of timing? To: DIY_EFI@lists.diy-efi.org, efi332@lists.diy-efi.org Message-id: <"010309113055Z.WT19305. 2*/PN=Mike.Blakey/OU=Personnel/OU=NOTES/O=BAe MAA/PRMD=BAE/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/"@MHS> X-Mailer: NetJunction (NetJunction 5.0-p1)/MIME Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org My previous DIS was time based and the accuracy was about 0.2ms, I have changed my processor and the way the code works, and my accuracy is now >0.3 deg. I have worked out a way of getting >0.1 deg accuracy with an 8bit table value, but is this necessary? How accurate does it have to be? ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately by telephoning +44(1252) 373232. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 04:57:52 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id EAA13641 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:57:52 -0800 Received: from mail.bae.co.uk (mail.bae.co.uk [141.245.40.233]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id EAA13636; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 04:57:43 -0800 Received: by mail.bae.co.uk (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA24830; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:01:32 GMT Received: from unknown (141.245.68.234) by BAe-DMZ via CSC. ID xai024742; Fri, 9 Mar 01 13:01:08 GMT Received: from ngban8.ng.bae.co.uk ([141.245.68.229]) by ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk (PMDF V5.2-33 #44998) with ESMTP id <0G9X00J46LAJBM@ngbaux.net.bae.co.uk>; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:56:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ngbauh.ng.bae.co.uk (unverified) by ngban8.ng.bae.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:59:41 +0000 Received: (from x400@localhost) by ngbauh.ng.bae.co.uk (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) id LAA27946; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:59:45 +0000 (GMT) Received: by GOLD 400; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:08:14 +0000 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:08:14 +0000 From: Mike Blakey Subject: MAP Sensor To: DIY_EFI@lists.diy-efi.org, efi332@lists.diy-efi.org Message-id: <"010309115924Z.WT27280.135*/PN=Mike.Blakey/OU=Personnel/OU=NOTES/O=BAe MAA/PRMD=BAE/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/"@MHS> X-Mailer: NetJunction (NetJunction 5.0-p1)/MIME Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org My company has changed my e-mail address so I've resent this post... I have made my own MAP sensor from a differential bridge sensor (-1 to 0 bar). It works fine but I'm unsure of the expected range on a manifold, so far I've only managed to get down to -780 mbar. If this is about typical I can alter the gain and span to get better resolution over the expected range. My sensor also is differential to atmospheric pressure, where as the OEM sensors do not seem to be, is the correct? ******************************************************************** This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately by telephoning +44(1252) 373232. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. ******************************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 05:08:12 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA13768 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:08:12 -0800 Received: from web906.mail.yahoo.com (web906.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.81]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id FAA13763 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:08:05 -0800 Received: (qmail 1411 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2001 13:08:01 -0000 Message-ID: <20010309130801.1410.qmail@web906.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.246.35.53] by web906.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 05:08:01 PST Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:08:01 -0800 (PST) From: Carter Shore Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #525 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org In-Reply-To: <200103090900.BAA11413@hektor.valesh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org On Thu, 08 Mar 2001, Nigel Heron wrote: > Subject: fuel rail > > hi, > > i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v > vw out of billet aluminum. > What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel > rail? is there a basic guidline based on injector > size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? > > thanks, > - -nigel. Nigel, listers, You can get fuel rail extrusion for $12/ft from Arizona Speed and Marine: http://www.azspeed-marine.com/products/fuelinj/injacc.html This rail is sized for V-8's, (approx 1/2" ID), so it's probably not too large. Of course, you may still have to deal with harmonics, etc., but at that price, you can afford to build a few and experiment. I bought my rail from them, a 3ft piece. NFI, etc. I'm using Ford Bosch style injectors, so I got a 14 MM (.551 ") reamer for finishing the injector holes. Have not machined it yet, so I can't report on the results. Has anyone considered putting a piece of open cell foam (like inside a fuel cell) or maybe a metal or plastic mesh inside one of these rails? The idea being to dampen the acoustic characteristics without impeding the flow. I'd favor a piece of coarse stainless mesh, rolled up into a cylinder, and inserted into the passage. The foam makes me uncomfortable for the long haul. Anyone know the speed of sound in gasoline at 43 psi, and 100 F? Maybe the resonant frequency of the chamber can be calculated. Of course, if you are committed to making your own rail from scratch, good luck! Carter Shore __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 05:19:56 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA13931 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:19:56 -0800 Received: from ukxslf01.twr.co.uk (ntas7.kbdd.co.uk [195.70.68.3]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA13927 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:19:50 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host ntas7.kbdd.co.uk [195.70.68.3] claimed to be ukxslf01.twr.co.uk Received: by ukxslf01.twr.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:17:43 -0000 Message-ID: <676B13ECA86ED411B4EC00508BAC11F458720C@ukxslf01.twr.co.uk> From: "Murphy, Ian" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: RE: MAP Sensor Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:17:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org MAP stands for Manifold Absolute Pressure, so substituting a gauge (referenced to atmosphere) pressure is incorrect. MAP is often used to calculate charge density and hence fuelling using thermodynamic / fluid dynamics maths involving Ideal Gas laws. Of course, if you include a Baro sensor when designing a system, you can infer MAP from a gauge sensor. Ian > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Blakey [SMTP:mike.blakey@baesystems.com] > Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 11:08 AM > To: DIY_EFI@lists.diy-efi.org; efi332@lists.diy-efi.org > Subject: MAP Sensor > > My company has changed my e-mail address so I've resent this post... > > I have made my own MAP sensor from a differential bridge sensor (-1 to 0 > bar). It > works fine but I'm unsure of the expected range on a manifold, so far I've > only > managed to get down to -780 mbar. If this is about typical I can alter the > gain and > span to get better resolution over the expected range. My sensor also is > differential to atmospheric pressure, where as the OEM sensors do not seem > to be, > is the correct? > > > > ******************************************************************** > This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended > recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender > immediately by telephoning +44(1252) 373232. You should not copy it > or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to > any other person. > ******************************************************************** > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 05:47:28 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA14276 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:47:28 -0800 Received: from mail.yifansoft.com (qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id FAA14271 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:47:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host qmailr@ns1.yifansoft.com [64.61.26.50] claimed to be mail.yifansoft.com Received: (qmail 32433 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 13:47:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO TheRebel) (216.192.199.9) by host5.yifansoft.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 13:47:13 -0000 From: "James Ballenger" To: Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #525 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:47:39 -0500 Message-ID: <004501c0a89f$827cd760$0bc8c8c8@Vtech> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20010309130801.1410.qmail@web906.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Our team made our own from Electromotive Fuel rail stock http://www.emi.cc/fuel_system.htm. Which looks identical to the stuff from Arizona Speed and Marine. It was extremly easy to work with. Just use a drill bit of the right size for the injector holes and a npt tap on one side for the fuel input and you are good to go. We also hogged out some extra material on the mill, but that is only necessary for the exteremely weight conscious. We don't have any noise problems, but we are not flowing much either... and our engine is pretty noisy anyway. James Ballenger >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Carter Shore >Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 8:08 AM >To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #525 > > >On Thu, 08 Mar 2001, Nigel Heron wrote: > >> Subject: fuel rail >> >> hi, >> >> i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v >> vw out of billet aluminum. >> What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel >> rail? is there a basic guidline based on injector >> size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? >> >> thanks, >> - -nigel. > >Nigel, listers, > >You can get fuel rail extrusion for $12/ft from >Arizona Speed and Marine: > >http://www.azspeed-marine.com/products/fuelinj/injacc.html > >This rail is sized for V-8's, (approx 1/2" ID), so >it's probably not too large. Of course, you may still >have to deal with harmonics, etc., but at that price, >you can afford to build a few and experiment. > >I bought my rail from them, a 3ft piece. NFI, etc. > >I'm using Ford Bosch style injectors, so I got a 14 MM >(.551 ") reamer for finishing the injector holes. >Have not machined it yet, so I can't report on the >results. > >Has anyone considered putting a piece of open cell >foam (like inside a fuel cell) or maybe a metal or >plastic mesh inside one of these rails? The idea being >to dampen the acoustic characteristics without >impeding the flow. > >I'd favor a piece of coarse stainless mesh, rolled up >into a cylinder, and inserted into the passage. The >foam makes me uncomfortable for the long haul. > >Anyone know the speed of sound in gasoline at 43 psi, >and 100 F? Maybe the resonant frequency of the chamber >can be calculated. > >Of course, if you are committed to making your own >rail from scratch, good luck! > >Carter Shore > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ >--------------------------------------------------------------- >------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" >(without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to >majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 05:51:27 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA14334 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:51:27 -0800 Received: from localhost.localdomain (qnxmail.qnx.com [209.226.137.76]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA14325 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 05:51:17 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host qnxmail.qnx.com [209.226.137.76] claimed to be localhost.localdomain Received: from smtp.ott.qnx.com (smtp.ott.qnx.com [10.0.2.158]) by localhost.localdomain (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA07595 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:49:34 -0500 Received: from node141.ott.qnx.com ([10.0.0.141]) by smtp.ott.qnx.com (8.8.8/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA13100 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:52:07 -0500 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:53:41 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: fuel rail To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: Voyager Email for QNX (vmail v2.02) Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org and the fuel sits around soaking up heat Previously, you (Tony Bryant) wrote: { { { > { >i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet { >aluminum. { >What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic { >guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? { > { { { Big as practical. The only disadvantage in going "too big" is weight. { { { ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- { To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) { in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org { -- Pat Ford email: pford@qnx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 06:07:50 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA14557 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:07:50 -0800 Received: from web1006.mail.yahoo.com (web1006.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.96]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id GAA14553 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:07:45 -0800 Received: (qmail 470 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2001 14:07:44 -0000 Message-ID: <20010309140744.469.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [204.167.223.70] by web1006.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 06:07:44 PST Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:07:44 -0800 (PST) From: Josh Criswold Subject: OBD-II To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org In-Reply-To: <200103090900.BAA11413@hektor.valesh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Can anyone reccomend a tech article describing the OBD-II standard? I am an SAE member, so an SAE article is good. Anyone familiar with the Siemens system on the 3.2L BMW M3s? Josh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 06:25:17 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id GAA14800 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:25:17 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id GAA14793 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:25:04 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.10.24]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010309142502.LCRO10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:25:02 -0500 Message-ID: <00c201c0a8a4$c203b660$180ac9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <20010309130801.1410.qmail@web906.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #525 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:25:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Considered yes, done no, just the tiniest of grit can hold an injector open. Something I'd rather not risk. Even with the stainless, there is no way that I know of that cut it perfectly. If you can hear the injectors, your exhuast system is too quiet, ... Bruce > Has anyone considered putting a piece of open cell > foam (like inside a fuel cell) or maybe a metal or > plastic mesh inside one of these rails? The idea being > to dampen the acoustic characteristics without > impeding the flow. > I'd favor a piece of coarse stainless mesh, rolled up > into a cylinder, and inserted into the passage. The > foam makes me uncomfortable for the long haul. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 08:29:52 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA16046 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:29:52 -0800 Received: from pimout4-int.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA16041 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:29:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103] claimed to be pimout4-int.prodigy.net Received: from sacnt01pdc01 (nas-108-18.oakland-t.navipath.net [64.20.108.18]) by pimout4-int.prodigy.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f29GTfI41442 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:29:42 -0500 From: "lance" To: Subject: RE: Newbie... Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:29:56 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3AA8C84D.A2488C91@home.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Agreed Buschur knows nothing of code. Just a personalized place to start looking for DSM info. BTW nice link! Lance -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Rob O Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 4:11 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Newbie... Check out www.tmo.com, Buschur has no clue on disassembling code and will tell you that in his Northern Ohio way ROb_O lance wrote: > > Rumor has it the DSM guys have completely disassembled their code and they > have a guy who has written some interesting mods (2 stage rev limiter to > build boost at the line, etc). I'd contact Dave Buschur The4Bangr@aol.com > and ask about DSMs. He just recently joined the Toyota Supra Owner's group > and has been very open about his findings even though he is a well known > competitor in Import Drag racing. Good luck! > > Lance > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of steve ravet > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:19 AM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Newbie... > > Chris, it seems like there's a ton of information for GM cars, somewhat > less for Fords, and basically none for anything else. So it might be > hard to find out about your Eclipse. But, you can look around at the > gmecm page and learn a lot about GM EFI strategy. Another great place > is the archives of both diy-efi and gmecm. Both archives can be > downloaded from their respective WWW pages, and searched with a text > editor or word processor. I wouldn't try reading from end to end, but > browse around in them and read stuff that looks interesting. There > isn't a good place to start, that I know of at least, other than read a > lot and ask questions. Good luck! > > --steve > > > Chris Remshaw wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I > > have only begun to understand any of it. I am a computer programmer, > > but a more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into > > programming ECU's. Where is a good place to start (on the web, off > > the web, etc.)? I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done > > modifications to my own. I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS. > > > > Thanks, > > Chris Remshaw > > -- > Steve Ravet > steve.ravet@arm.com > ARM,Inc. > www.arm.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 08:54:54 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA16440 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:54:54 -0800 Received: from smtp.scotland.net (smtp.scotland.net [194.247.65.1]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA16429 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:54:44 -0800 Received: from e1h2p159.scotland.net ([148.176.234.160] helo=emma) by smtp.scotland.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14bQ9l-0001ni-00; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:54:21 +0000 Message-ID: <007d01c0a8b8$a98e54a0$0100007f@emma> From: "Hugh" To: Cc: "Scott Flanagan" References: Subject: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:36:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0A8B7.223BCD80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0A8B7.223BCD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Scott Flanagan mentioned he was trying to map out a rising rate fuel = pressure regulator. I am also looking for a rising rate regulator that reacts to turbo = boost. All the turbo fuel pressure regulators I have seen, raise fuel pressure = at a rate equal to the amount of boost.=20 I would like to find a fuel pressure regulator that gives something like = 2 : 1 to give around 75 / 90 psi at 20 psi boost. The aim is to bypass the need to fit larger injectors when increasing = the power output of the engine and also the standard injectors will = allow the car to idle better. I also want to fit a fuel pressure sensor linked into the ECU to keep an = eye on fuel pressure. Hugh=20 ++44 1224 209 592 home ++44 7980 443 803 mobile ++44 1224 312 668 fax hugh@sol.co.uk =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0A8B7.223BCD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Scott Flanagan mentioned he was = trying to map out=20 a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
 
I am also looking for a rising rate = regulator=20 that reacts to turbo boost.
 
All the turbo fuel pressure = regulators I have=20 seen, raise fuel pressure at a rate equal to the amount of = boost.=20
 
I would like to find a fuel pressure=20 regulator that gives something like 2 : 1 to give around 75 / = 90 psi=20 at 20 psi boost.
 
The aim is to bypass the need to fit = larger=20 injectors when increasing the power output of the engine and also the = standard=20 injectors will allow the car to idle better.
 
I also want to fit a fuel pressure = sensor linked=20 into the ECU to keep an eye on fuel pressure.
 
 
Hugh
 
++44 1224 209 592 home
 
++44 7980 443 803 mobile
 
++44 1224 312 668 fax
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01C0A8B7.223BCD80-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 09:25:40 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA17184 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:25:40 -0800 Received: from mail.fwi.com (root@mail.fwi.com [209.84.160.95]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA17170 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:25:28 -0800 Received: from jrh (decatur-line-19.fwi.com [209.84.174.84]) by mail.fwi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00482 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:25:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000201c0a8be$85789a20$5ecdfea9@jrh> From: "Jason R. Haines" To: References: <000901c0a813$dc59ede0$5ecdfea9@jrh> <021501c0a815$42827780$100ac9d8@brucescompute> Subject: Re: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data acquisition input? Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:38:00 -0500 Organization: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I want to build a circuit to use the stock GM sensors in a standalone type of application (not as part of the GM wiring harness/ECM). I have 5 volt, 10 volt, 12 volt and 13.8 volt power supplies already available in the data acquisition system. I want as close to the full 10 volt range as possible for the input into the data acquisition to improve reasolution and accuracy. Yes, I could use 0 to1 volt but I'd rather not if I don't have to (the display and transfer function is programmable so it doesn't even have to be linear although it makes it much easier if it is). Jason > > Just cause the Datalogging allows 0-10 doesn't mean you have to use it. > the display maybe customizable (?) to read just the 0-5 part anyway. > Other then the air flow computation, the other stuff really isn't that > critical. And things like IAT sensors are rather slow to change anyway > Bruce > > > Does anyone know what I need to do to build a circuit to be able to take > > standard GM temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, oil temp.) and produce a 0 to > 10 > > volt output for our data acquisition system. We currently have 12 vdc and > > 13.8 vdc power available although we could add some other DC power supply > if > > needed. > > > > Sorry if this seems basic but that is what happens when you let mechanical > > engineers start working with electronics and electrical systems. > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 09:29:20 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA17241 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:29:20 -0800 Received: from mta08.onebox.com (mta08.onebox.com [216.35.104.108]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id JAA17226 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:29:09 -0800 Received: from onebox.com ([64.68.77.135]) by mta08.onebox.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010309172833.YLBE289.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:28:33 -0800 Received: from [143.166.82.240] by onebox.com with HTTP; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:28:33 -0800 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:28:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator From: "Josh Pullen" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20010309172833.YLBE289.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I have an SX fuel pressure regulator and it is adjustable. I had it set at 2:1 at one point but adjusted it down to 1.5:1. -- Josh Pullen 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo http://jmpvm.dyndns.org ---- "Hugh" wrote: > Scott Flanagan mentioned he was trying to map out a rising rate fuel > pressure regulator. > > I am also looking for a rising rate regulator that reacts to turbo > boost. > > All the turbo fuel pressure regulators I have seen, raise fuel pressure > at a rate equal to the amount of boost. > > I would like to find a fuel pressure regulator that gives something > like 2 : 1 to give around 75 / 90 psi at 20 psi boost. > > The aim is to bypass the need to fit larger injectors when increasing > the power output of the engine and also the standard injectors will > allow the car to idle better. > > I also want to fit a fuel pressure sensor linked into the ECU to keep > an eye on fuel pressure. > > > Hugh > > ++44 1224 209 592 home > > ++44 7980 443 803 mobile > > ++44 1224 312 668 fax > > > hugh@sol.co.uk > > > > __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 10:28:04 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id KAA18529 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:28:04 -0800 Received: from smtp.scotland.net (smtpa.scotland.net [194.247.64.1]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id KAA18524 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:27:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host smtpa.scotland.net [194.247.64.1] claimed to be smtp.scotland.net Received: from e2h2p39.scotland.net ([148.176.238.40] helo=emma) by smtp.scotland.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14bRbu-0004RM-00 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:27:30 +0000 Message-ID: <018401c0a8c5$a1db4760$0100007f@emma> From: "Hugh" To: References: <20010309130801.1410.qmail@web906.mail.yahoo.com> <00c201c0a8a4$c203b660$180ac9d8@brucescompute> Subject: AUTRONIC SM2 ECU. Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 17:44:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_015B_01C0A8C0.8863C140" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_015B_01C0A8C0.8863C140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone experience of the Autronic ECU = http://www.turbofast.com.au/autronic/sm2ecu.html It seems to be very comprehensive in it's capabilities and similar to = Motec, but are there any technical things like accuracy of spark = delivery, fuel delivery, anything else? that can be used to judge this = system against others. Hugh=20 ++44 1224 209 592 home ++44 7980 443 803 mobile ++44 1224 312 668 fax hugh@sol.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_015B_01C0A8C0.8863C140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Has anyone experience of the = Autronic ECU http://www.turb= ofast.com.au/autronic/sm2ecu.html
 
It seems to be very comprehensive in = it's=20 capabilities and similar to Motec, but are there any technical things = like=20 accuracy of spark delivery, fuel delivery, anything else? that = can be=20 used to judge this system against others.
 
Hugh
 
++44 1224 209 592 home
 
++44 7980 443 803 mobile
 
++44 1224 312 668 fax
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_015B_01C0A8C0.8863C140-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 11:13:46 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA18932 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:13:46 -0800 Received: from hotmail.com (oe52.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.41]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA18928 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:13:38 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host oe52.law9.hotmail.com [64.4.8.41] claimed to be hotmail.com Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:13:07 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [208.44.92.165] From: "Tom" To: References: <200103090900.BAA11413@hektor.valesh.com> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #525 Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:13:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2001 19:13:07.0472 (UTC) FILETIME=[F93D6900:01C0A8CC] Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Todd Day has the code deciphered, not Dave Beer-nuts :-) Most of his changes are rev-limiter and convenience items, not performance related though. email is today@dsm.org or read about the ecu changes at www.tmo.com Have fun, -tom > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:24:11 -0800 > From: "lance" > Subject: RE: Newbie... > > Rumor has it the DSM guys have completely disassembled their code and they > have a guy who has written some interesting mods (2 stage rev limiter to > build boost at the line, etc). I'd contact Dave Buschur The4Bangr@aol.com > and ask about DSMs. He just recently joined the Toyota Supra Owner's group > and has been very open about his findings even though he is a well known > competitor in Import Drag racing. Good luck! > > Lance > > - -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of steve ravet > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 10:19 AM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: Newbie... > > > Chris, it seems like there's a ton of information for GM cars, somewhat > less for Fords, and basically none for anything else. So it might be > hard to find out about your Eclipse. But, you can look around at the > gmecm page and learn a lot about GM EFI strategy. Another great place > is the archives of both diy-efi and gmecm. Both archives can be > downloaded from their respective WWW pages, and searched with a text > editor or word processor. I wouldn't try reading from end to end, but > browse around in them and read stuff that looks interesting. There > isn't a good place to start, that I know of at least, other than read a > lot and ask questions. Good luck! > > - --steve > > > Chris Remshaw wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I have read this digest off and on for the past two years, and I > > have only begun to understand any of it. I am a computer programmer, > > but a more internet-based one, and I would love to get more into > > programming ECU's. Where is a good place to start (on the web, off > > the web, etc.)? I'm knowledgable on the basics of cars and have done > > modifications to my own. I have a '91 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS. > > > > Thanks, > > Chris Remshaw ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 11:31:26 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA19046 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:31:26 -0800 Received: from web1002.mail.yahoo.com (web1002.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.92]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id LAA19042 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:31:16 -0800 Received: (qmail 280 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Mar 2001 19:31:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20010309193112.279.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [136.1.1.33] by web1002.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:31:12 PST Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:31:12 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Beaubien Subject: Pow wow To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org In-Reply-To: <200103090956.BAA12114@hektor.valesh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Is there any more information on the EFI pow-wow next weekend? I'm curious who will be there with what toys etc., and an approximate schedule. Thanks, Matt. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 11:46:05 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id LAA19239 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:46:05 -0800 Received: from invictus.bright.net (invictus.bright.net [205.212.123.12]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id LAA19233 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 11:45:57 -0800 Received: from brucescompute ([216.201.41.142]) by invictus.bright.net with SMTP id <20010309194552.MZFA10619.invictus@brucescompute> for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:45:52 -0500 Message-ID: <01c301c0a8d1$947990c0$8e29c9d8@brucescompute> From: "Bruce Plecan" To: References: <20010309193112.279.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Pow wow Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:46:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Doc has it all written down in a hermidically sealed Mayo jar, and won't even let me see it. I did see him revising it cause of some now scheduling problems from the latest snow storm. There is no formal scheduling of events, it's what folks what to talk about, and just whatever they want to bring to show and tell. Bruce > Is there any more information on the EFI pow-wow next > weekend? I'm curious who will be there with what toys > etc., and an approximate schedule. > Thanks, > Matt. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 13:21:22 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA20279 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:21:22 -0800 Received: from bserv.com (bserv.com [204.101.197.2]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id NAA20275 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 13:21:16 -0800 Received: (qmail 29397 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 21:21:10 -0000 Received: from pm10p17.bserv.com (HELO oemcomputer.bserv.com) (204.101.197.177) by bserv.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 21:21:10 -0000 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20010309161444.009eda00@bserv.com> X-Sender: tigers@bserv.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:16:30 -0500 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org From: Bob Tom Subject: Re: OBD-II In-Reply-To: <20010309140744.469.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200103090900.BAA11413@hektor.valesh.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org At 06:07 AM 3/9/01 -0800, you wrote: >Can anyone reccomend a tech article describing the >OBD-II standard? I am an SAE member, so an SAE >article is good. Josh Give http://www.obdii.com/ a try. Explore around their site and then try their LINK listing. Bob Tom Burlington, Ont., Canada '97 Dakota Sport, 4x2, CC, Flame red, 5.2L, auto., 3.92SG ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 15:07:13 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21260 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:07:13 -0800 Received: from admin.nni.com (admin.nni.com [216.107.0.218]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA21256 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:07:06 -0800 Received: from [216.107.54.80] (account rrauscher@nni.com HELO nni.com) by admin.nni.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b9) with ESMTP id 1449989 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:07:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3AA96221.CC5324F9@nni.com> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 18:07:13 -0500 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: circuit to use GM temperature sensors for voltage based data acquisition input? References: <000901c0a813$dc59ede0$5ecdfea9@jrh> <021501c0a815$42827780$100ac9d8@brucescompute> <000201c0a8be$85789a20$5ecdfea9@jrh> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Jason, The coolant & iat/mat sensors are thermistors. Just use a pullup to 10 volts with the other end grounded. GM uses both a 1K & 384 ohm pullup. The ecm will change it for greater or less resolution. The tps is a variable resistor, just feed it the 10v and ground the other end. The wiper goes to the data-acq. The map is a 5v device, period. Give it 5v and it will be happy. 0 - 5v out. You can check the ecm schematics on Ludis's site for additional info. BobR. Jason R. Haines wrote: > I want to build a circuit to use the stock GM sensors in a standalone type > of application (not as part of the GM wiring harness/ECM). I have 5 volt, 10 > volt, 12 volt and 13.8 volt power supplies already available in the data > acquisition system. I want as close to the full 10 volt range as possible > for the input into the data acquisition to improve reasolution and accuracy. > Yes, I could use 0 to1 volt but I'd rather not if I don't have to (the > display and transfer function is programmable so it doesn't even have to be > linear although it makes it much easier if it is). > > Jason > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 15:27:46 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21524 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:27:46 -0800 Received: from femail3.rdc1.on.home.com (femail3.rdc1.on.home.com [24.2.9.90]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA21518 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:27:39 -0800 Received: from cr29243a ([24.157.48.113]) by femail3.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010309232647.SYIV6398.femail3.rdc1.on.home.com@cr29243a> for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:26:47 -0800 Message-ID: <005c01c0a909$c71de980$71309d18@pr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: References: <007d01c0a8b8$a98e54a0$0100007f@emma> Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:28:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A8C6.B8C0ADC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A8C6.B8C0ADC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For non 1:1 gain rates you might want to ask around both www.cartech.com = and www.powertrain.net for a couple of good examples of what's possible. = Be wary of the ultimate injector operating pressures for your = particular injectors & drivers. Also, be wary of your deliverable = pumping volume at elevated pressures. Very high pressure AND flow are = often hard to simultaneously realize without specific forethought. Walt. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Hugh=20 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org=20 Cc: Scott Flanagan=20 Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 8:36 AM Subject: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Scott Flanagan mentioned he was trying to map out a rising rate fuel = pressure regulator. I am also looking for a rising rate regulator that reacts to turbo = boost. All the turbo fuel pressure regulators I have seen, raise fuel = pressure at a rate equal to the amount of boost.=20 I would like to find a fuel pressure regulator that gives something = like 2 : 1 to give around 75 / 90 psi at 20 psi boost. The aim is to bypass the need to fit larger injectors when increasing = the power output of the engine and also the standard injectors will = allow the car to idle better. I also want to fit a fuel pressure sensor linked into the ECU to keep = an eye on fuel pressure. Hugh=20 ++44 1224 209 592 home ++44 7980 443 803 mobile ++44 1224 312 668 fax hugh@sol.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A8C6.B8C0ADC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For non 1:1 gain rates you might want to ask = around both=20 www.cartech.com and www.powertrain.net for a couple = of good=20 examples of what's possible.  Be wary of the ultimate injector = operating=20 pressures for your particular injectors & drivers.  Also, be = wary of=20 your deliverable pumping volume at elevated pressures.  Very high = pressure=20 AND flow are often hard to simultaneously realize without specific=20 forethought.
 
Walt.
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Hugh =
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 = 8:36=20 AM
Subject: Rising rate fuel = pressure=20 regulator

Scott Flanagan mentioned he was = trying to map=20 out a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
 
I am also looking for a rising rate = regulator=20 that reacts to turbo boost.
 
All the turbo fuel pressure = regulators I have=20 seen, raise fuel pressure at a rate equal to the amount of = boost.=20
 
I would like to find a fuel = pressure=20 regulator that gives something like 2 : 1 to give around 75 = / 90 psi=20 at 20 psi boost.
 
The aim is to bypass the need to = fit larger=20 injectors when increasing the power output of the engine and also the = standard=20 injectors will allow the car to idle better.
 
I also want to fit a fuel pressure = sensor=20 linked into the ECU to keep an eye on fuel pressure.
 
 
Hugh
 
++44 1224 209 592 home
 
++44 7980 443 803 = mobile
 
++44 1224 312 668 fax
 
 

 
------=_NextPart_000_0059_01C0A8C6.B8C0ADC0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 15:43:10 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id PAA21766 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:43:10 -0800 Received: from femail3.rdc1.on.home.com (femail3.rdc1.on.home.com [24.2.9.90]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id PAA21762 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:43:03 -0800 Received: from cr29243a ([24.157.48.113]) by femail3.rdc1.on.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010309234224.TNNL6398.femail3.rdc1.on.home.com@cr29243a> for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 15:42:24 -0800 Message-ID: <007801c0a90b$f5bb4880$71309d18@pr1.on.wave.home.com> From: "Walter Sherwin" To: References: Subject: Re: fuel rail Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 18:43:59 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org The desired I.D. of the injector rails is as much a function of the gross recirculating flow rate (ie: the max bypassed flow rate, when the injectors are at low BPW's) of the entire pumping circuit, as it is the peak draw of X number of injectors for a given rail. Surges and pulsations are best emeliorated with rail mounted snubbers or dampners (Bosch have some nice ones). As long as your rail I.D. is about 30-50% larger than the I.D. of the lines feeding it, then you should be golden. The necessity of excess hydraulic rail volume is only an issue when feeding a very long rail, that in turnfeeds a number of synchronously batch fired injectors. IMO Walt. > Like someone else mentioned here earlier, there is no sure fire way to know > the correct inside diameter,,,lot's of variables.... if you are making your > own use as large as you can and you might even think about a fuel dampener > as well. Datalogging the pressure in the rail under conditions is the only > way to know if you have a harmonic problem. hth's > -Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Seth > Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:31 PM > To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: fuel rail > > > http://www.rossmachine.com/racing/ > > these guys make custom 16v VW fuel rails from billet. you might want to > see what they have done. > > -Seth > > Nigel Heron wrote: > > > > hi, > > > > i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet > > aluminum. > > What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic > > guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? > > > > thanks, > > -nigel. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 19:56:47 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id TAA24248 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:56:47 -0800 Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id TAA24237 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:56:34 -0800 Received: from earthlink.net (ip140.leesburg4.va.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.171.140]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28722 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 19:56:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3AA9A641.E61A5046@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 22:57:53 -0500 From: Joseph Obernberger X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator References: <20010309172833.YLBE289.mta08.onebox.com@onebox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Cartech makes a variable rate of gain fuel pressure regulator where one can set the 'no-boost' pressure, and then set a bleed screw to how much the regulator increases fuel pressure per psi of boost. joeo Josh Pullen wrote: > I have an SX fuel pressure regulator and it is adjustable. I had it > set at 2:1 at one point but adjusted it down to 1.5:1. > > -- > Josh Pullen > 1994 HKS T04R Supra Turbo > http://jmpvm.dyndns.org > > ---- "Hugh" wrote: > > Scott Flanagan mentioned he was trying to map out a rising rate fuel > > pressure regulator. > > > > I am also looking for a rising rate regulator that reacts to turbo > > boost. > > > > All the turbo fuel pressure regulators I have seen, raise fuel pressure > > at a rate equal to the amount of boost. > > > > I would like to find a fuel pressure regulator that gives something > > like 2 : 1 to give around 75 / 90 psi at 20 psi boost. > > > > The aim is to bypass the need to fit larger injectors when increasing > > the power output of the engine and also the standard injectors will > > allow the car to idle better. > > > > I also want to fit a fuel pressure sensor linked into the ECU to keep > > an eye on fuel pressure. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 20:06:02 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA24378 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:06:02 -0800 Received: from sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au (innovative.iinet.net.au [203.59.144.24]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id UAA24372 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:05:53 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host innovative.iinet.net.au [203.59.144.24] claimed to be sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id MAA15729 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:05:47 +0800 Received: from UNKNOWN(203.6.142.20), claiming to be "flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au" via SMTP by innovative.iinet.net.au, id smtpdSwKmWr; Sat Mar 10 04:05:19 2001 Received: (from bernie@localhost) by flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id MAA30659 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:05:16 +0800 From: Bernd Felsche Message-Id: <200103100405.MAA30659@flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au> Subject: Re: fuel rail In-Reply-To: from Pat Ford at "Mar 9, 2001 08:53:41 am" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:05:15 +0800 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Pat Ford tapped away at the keyboard with: > Previously, you (Tony Bryant) wrote: > { >i'm going to be making a custom fuel rail for my 16v vw out of billet > { >aluminum. > { >What is the appropriate internal volume of a fuel rail? is there a basic > { >guidline based on injector size, fuel pressure, max rpm, etc.? > { > > { > { > { Big as practical. The only disadvantage in going "too big" is weight. > and the fuel sits around soaking up heat There will be more fuel available to soak up the heat. And a larger surface area will absorb more heat. However, most fuel rails I've seen (all Bosch-based) are set up to flush through their entire length, with feed on one end and the pressure regulator that dumps the return flow, at the other. The long fuel lines and the tank (as well as the fuel in it) act as a heat sink. [BTW: Am I the only one now getting 2 to 4 copies of every article _and_ digest?] -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! | X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature| / \ and postings | to help me spread! | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Fri Mar 9 22:20:41 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id WAA25181 for diy_efi-outgoing; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:20:41 -0800 Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id WAA25176 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:20:34 -0800 Received: from j0w0q1 (dialup-166.90.22.26.SanDiego1.Level3.net [166.90.22.26]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA17374 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:20:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Bob Wooten" To: Subject: RE: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:20:59 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0A8E7.37D82DC0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <007d01c0a8b8$a98e54a0$0100007f@emma> Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0A8E7.37D82DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been looking into a blower for my car & most of the mfg's suggest a FMU (Fuel Management Unit) when I asked specifically how it worked they said that it is a device that goes in the return line off of your fuel rail. as Manifold pressure goes up it restricts more. sounds to me like a Back Pressure regulator that has the sense line going somewhere other than the input side. most of them are adjustable & the better ones are apparently pretty linear. this might be an accurate way to do what you are trying to do. I talked with techs @ Paxton, ATI, & Vortech & they all have the "same" thing. there are a ton of them on the fox bodied rustangs here in Southern California & I guess they serve their purpose. I would be willing to be that a bunch of the turbo guys have them as well. Bob Wooten http://www.procharger.com , http://www.paxtonauto.com/ , http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/welcome/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Hugh Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 8:37 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Cc: Scott Flanagan Subject: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Scott Flanagan mentioned he was trying to map out a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. I am also looking for a rising rate regulator that reacts to turbo boost. All the turbo fuel pressure regulators I have seen, raise fuel pressure at a rate equal to the amount of boost. I would like to find a fuel pressure regulator that gives something like 2 : 1 to give around 75 / 90 psi at 20 psi boost. The aim is to bypass the need to fit larger injectors when increasing the power output of the engine and also the standard injectors will allow the car to idle better. I also want to fit a fuel pressure sensor linked into the ECU to keep an eye on fuel pressure. Hugh ++44 1224 209 592 home ++44 7980 443 803 mobile ++44 1224 312 668 fax hugh@sol.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0A8E7.37D82DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have=20 been looking into a blower for my car & most of the mfg's suggest a = FMU=20 (Fuel Management Unit)  when I asked specifically how it worked = they said=20 that it is a device that goes in the return line off of your fuel = rail.  as=20 Manifold pressure goes up it restricts more.  sounds to me like a = Back=20 Pressure regulator that has the sense line going somewhere other than = the input=20 side.  most of them are adjustable & the better ones are = apparently=20 pretty linear.  this might be an accurate way to do what you are = trying to=20 do.  I talked with techs @ Paxton, ATI, & Vortech & they = all have=20 the "same" thing.  there are a ton of them on the fox bodied = rustangs here=20 in Southern California & I guess they serve their purpose.  I = would be=20 willing to be that a bunch of the turbo guys have them as well. =20
 
Bob=20 Wooten
 
 
http://www.procharger.com , http://www.paxtonauto.com/ ,= http://www.vortechs= uperchargers.com/welcome/
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org=20 [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of = Hugh
Sent:=20 Friday, March 09, 2001 8:37 AM
To: = diy_efi@diy-efi.org
Cc:=20 Scott Flanagan
Subject: Rising rate fuel pressure=20 regulator

Scott Flanagan mentioned he was = trying to map=20 out a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
 
I am also looking for a rising rate = regulator=20 that reacts to turbo boost.
 
All the turbo fuel pressure = regulators I have=20 seen, raise fuel pressure at a rate equal to the amount of = boost.=20
 
I would like to find a fuel = pressure=20 regulator that gives something like 2 : 1 to give around 75 = / 90 psi=20 at 20 psi boost.
 
The aim is to bypass the need to = fit larger=20 injectors when increasing the power output of the engine and also the = standard=20 injectors will allow the car to idle better.
 
I also want to fit a fuel pressure = sensor=20 linked into the ECU to keep an eye on fuel pressure.
 
 
Hugh
 
++44 1224 209 592 home
 
++44 7980 443 803 = mobile
 
++44 1224 312 668 fax
 
 

 
------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C0A8E7.37D82DC0-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 02:01:07 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id CAA26573 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:01:07 -0800 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com (tungsten.btinternet.com [194.73.73.81]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA26569 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:00:54 -0800 Received: from [62.7.33.170] (helo=helene) by tungsten.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14bgAq-0007kl-00 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:00:32 +0000 From: "Ade + Lamb Chop" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:00:31 -0000 Subject: Fuel systems Message-ID: <3AA9FB3F.1522.38BDBA@localhost> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Hi, I am in the process of putting a honda ZC engine in my mini. The mini is carbureted with a mechanical fuel pump on the engine. The honda has a high pressure pump (35-50psi depending on year of car with the vac hose disconnected from the regulator) in or nr the tank. This goes up to the fuel fuel rail which has a regulator on it.. the reg dumps excess fuel back to the tank to maintain the pressure. I am just wondering the best way to do the fuel system. I don't really fancy having 50psi fuel lines floating around the length of the car. Can I have a low pressure pump nr the tank then a high pressure pump in the engine bay? What should I do with the return line? can I run this to the inlet of the high pressure pump or do I need to run it back to the top of the tank? Ade ICQ. 75653589 www.adesite.co.uk ade.honda-mini.co.uk www.mini-list.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 02:23:20 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id CAA26743 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:23:20 -0800 Received: from sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au (innovative.iinet.net.au [203.59.144.24]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id CAA26735 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 02:22:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host innovative.iinet.net.au [203.59.144.24] claimed to be sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sprocket.innovative.iinet.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id SAA16352 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 18:22:43 +0800 Received: from UNKNOWN(203.6.142.20), claiming to be "flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au" via SMTP by innovative.iinet.net.au, id smtpdVvXKAq; Sat Mar 10 10:22:15 2001 Received: (from bernie@localhost) by flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id SAA31941 for diy_efi@diy-efi.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 18:22:13 +0800 From: Bernd Felsche Message-Id: <200103101022.SAA31941@flywheel.innovative.iinet.net.au> Subject: Re: Fuel systems In-Reply-To: <3AA9FB3F.1522.38BDBA@localhost> from Ade + Lamb Chop at "Mar 10, 2001 10:00:31 am" To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 18:22:13 +0800 (WST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL60 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Ade + Lamb Chop tapped away at the keyboard with: > I am in the process of putting a honda ZC engine in my mini. The > mini is carbureted with a mechanical fuel pump on the engine. > The honda has a high pressure pump (35-50psi depending on year of > car with the vac hose disconnected from the regulator) in or nr > the tank. This goes up to the fuel fuel rail which has a regulator > on it.. the reg dumps excess fuel back to the tank to maintain the > pressure. > I am just wondering the best way to do the fuel system. I don't > really fancy having 50psi fuel lines floating around the length of > the car. Well, staple them down. :-) Also, I didn't realize that a Mini had "length". >:-) It really isn't a problem if the fuel cutoff on engine stall works correctly. You can even add in a pressure switch at the pump so that if the outlet pressure of the fuel pump goes below a pre-determined level, that the pump cuts out. That would only be enabled after the engine has been running, of course! Just take care that the fuel lines aren't located where they're vulmerable to being hit by debris, torn in a crash or toasted by engine/exhaust. Many cars use polymer fuel lines because these are more resistant to damage; they won't fracture or crack as easily. > Can I have a low pressure pump nr the tank then a high pressure > pump in the engine bay? What should I do with the return line? can > I run this to the inlet of the high pressure pump or do I need to run > it back to the top of the tank? You want another fuel tank in the car? The return line should go into the tank. As discussed earlier, the fuel that's gone through the rail has been heated by the engine and you're better off drawing cooler fuel from the tank, least of all because it's more dense. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus! | X against HTML mail | Copy me into your ~/.signature| / \ and postings | to help me spread! | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 04:26:30 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id EAA27753 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 04:26:30 -0800 Received: from admin.nni.com (admin.nni.com [216.107.0.218]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id EAA27727; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 04:24:36 -0800 Received: from [216.107.54.199] (account rrauscher@nni.com HELO nni.com) by admin.nni.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b9) with ESMTP id 1485497; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:24:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3AAA1D0A.DFDFAF5C@nni.com> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:24:42 -0500 From: rr X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gmecm@diy-efi.org, diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: DIY-EGOR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org I have one last question about EGOR that I hope someone can answer. There is a very small current that needs to be supplied to the Vs cell. This is a constant current and of a small value. It is referred to as the Icp current. Does anyone know what the value of this current should be? Looking at the NTK_UEGO.PDF file that Stewart uploaded to incoming, it appears that it should be 15uA. The problem is that the pdf is hard to read. Can anyone verify this value? Thanks, BobR. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 05:47:52 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id FAA28416 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 05:47:52 -0800 Received: from mail7.triad.rr.com (mail7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id FAA28412 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 05:47:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host mail7.southeast.rr.com [24.93.67.54] claimed to be mail7.triad.rr.com Received: from markrile ([66.26.199.115]) by mail7.triad.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:47:30 -0500 Message-ID: <006d01c0a968$e625be20$73c71a42@triad.rr.com> From: "Mark S. Riley" To: References: Subject: Re: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:48:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005D_01C0A93E.E74FB140" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C0A93E.E74FB140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Most fmu's are not linear in fuel delivery and can cause significant = fuel curve deviation, usually extremely rich. They are included in the = blower, turbo kits as a cheap, effective way to keep the customer from = calling and complaining that the engine blew up on the test drive. Corky = Bell's Super FMU is more adjustable than about any of the others that I = have seen from around the world. It usually takes more work to get an = FMU to deliver an acceptable fuel curve than it does to dial in the = correct curve with injectors large enough to do the job correctly. = However, there are a lot of FMU's in use. And until the owners dyno and = check the fuel air ratio they are happy, cause it doesn't blow up when = they mash it. But they work for the people who don't have access to do = it any different. Makes blower and turbo kits saleable where otherwise = the libality issues would prevent their sale except to the select few. = Pick your poison. later, Mark Riley ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bob Wooten=20 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org=20 Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 1:20 AM Subject: RE: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator I have been looking into a blower for my car & most of the mfg's = suggest a FMU (Fuel Management Unit) when I asked specifically how it = worked they said that it is a device that goes in the return line off of = your fuel rail. as Manifold pressure goes up it restricts more. sounds = to me like a Back Pressure regulator that has the sense line going = somewhere other than the input side. most of them are adjustable & the = better ones are apparently pretty linear. this might be an accurate way = to do what you are trying to do. I talked with techs @ Paxton, ATI, & = Vortech & they all have the "same" thing. there are a ton of them on = the fox bodied rustangs here in Southern California & I guess they serve = their purpose. I would be willing to be that a bunch of the turbo guys = have them as well. =20 Bob Wooten http://www.procharger.com , http://www.paxtonauto.com/ , = http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/welcome/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On = Behalf Of Hugh Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 8:37 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Cc: Scott Flanagan Subject: Rising rate fuel pressure regulator Scott Flanagan mentioned he was trying to map out a rising rate fuel = pressure regulator. I am also looking for a rising rate regulator that reacts to turbo = boost. All the turbo fuel pressure regulators I have seen, raise fuel = pressure at a rate equal to the amount of boost.=20 I would like to find a fuel pressure regulator that gives something = like 2 : 1 to give around 75 / 90 psi at 20 psi boost. The aim is to bypass the need to fit larger injectors when = increasing the power output of the engine and also the standard = injectors will allow the car to idle better. I also want to fit a fuel pressure sensor linked into the ECU to = keep an eye on fuel pressure. Hugh=20 ++44 1224 209 592 home ++44 7980 443 803 mobile ++44 1224 312 668 fax hugh@sol.co.uk =20 ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C0A93E.E74FB140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Most fmu's are not linear in fuel = delivery and can=20 cause significant fuel curve deviation, usually extremely rich. They are = included in the blower, turbo kits as a cheap, effective way to = keep the=20 customer from calling and complaining that the engine blew up on = the test=20 drive. Corky Bell's Super FMU is more adjustable than about any of the = others=20 that I have seen from around the world. It usually takes more work to = get an FMU=20 to deliver an acceptable fuel curve than  it does to dial in = the=20 correct curve with injectors large enough to do the job correctly. = However,=20 there are a lot of FMU's in use. And until the owners dyno and check the = fuel=20 air ratio they are happy, cause it doesn't blow up when they mash = it. But=20 they work for the people who don't have access to do it any different. = Makes=20 blower and turbo kits saleable where otherwise the libality issues would = prevent=20 their sale except to the select few. Pick your poison. later, Mark=20 Riley
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bob=20 Wooten
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 = 1:20=20 AM
Subject: RE: Rising rate fuel = pressure=20 regulator

I=20 have been looking into a blower for my car & most of the mfg's = suggest a=20 FMU (Fuel Management Unit)  when I asked specifically how it = worked they=20 said that it is a device that goes in the return line off of your fuel = rail.  as Manifold pressure goes up it restricts more.  = sounds to me=20 like a Back Pressure regulator that has the sense line going somewhere = other=20 than the input side.  most of them are adjustable & the = better ones=20 are apparently pretty linear.  this might be an accurate way to = do what=20 you are trying to do.  I talked with techs @ Paxton, ATI, & = Vortech=20 & they all have the "same" thing.  there are a ton of them on = the fox=20 bodied rustangs here in Southern California & I guess they serve = their=20 purpose.  I would be willing to be that a bunch of the turbo guys = have=20 them as well. 
 
Bob=20 Wooten
 
 
http://www.procharger.com , http://www.paxtonauto.com/ ,= http://www.vortechs= uperchargers.com/welcome/
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org=20 [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of = Hugh
Sent:=20 Friday, March 09, 2001 8:37 AM
To:=20 diy_efi@diy-efi.org
Cc: Scott Flanagan
Subject: = Rising=20 rate fuel pressure regulator

Scott Flanagan mentioned he was = trying to map=20 out a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
 
I am also looking for a rising = rate regulator=20 that reacts to turbo boost.
 
All the turbo fuel pressure = regulators I have=20 seen, raise fuel pressure at a rate equal to the amount of = boost.=20
 
I would like to find a fuel = pressure=20 regulator that gives something like 2 : 1 to give = around 75 / 90=20 psi at 20 psi boost.
 
The aim is to bypass the need to = fit larger=20 injectors when increasing the power output of the engine and also = the=20 standard injectors will allow the car to idle better.
 
I also want to fit a fuel = pressure sensor=20 linked into the ECU to keep an eye on fuel pressure.
 
 
Hugh
 
++44 1224 209 592 = home
 
++44 7980 443 803 = mobile
 
++44 1224 312 668 = fax
 
 

 
------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C0A93E.E74FB140-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 08:02:07 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA29545 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:02:07 -0800 Received: from marine.sonic.net (marine.sonic.net [208.201.224.37]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id IAA29540 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:01:59 -0800 Received: (qmail 19061 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 16:01:55 -0000 Received: from sub.sonic.net (208.201.224.8) by marine.sonic.net with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 16:01:55 -0000 Received: from sonic.net (d114.pm3.sonic.net [208.201.229.114]) by sub.sonic.net (8.11.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id f2AG1OY11299 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:01:29 -0800 X-envelope-info: Message-ID: <3AAA4E5F.1A1AF26F@sonic.net> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:55:11 -0800 From: clayb X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re:AUTRONIC SM2 ECU. References: <200103092329.PAA21550@hektor.valesh.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org > It seems to be very comprehensive in it's capabilities and similar to = > Motec, but are there any technical things like accuracy of spark = > delivery, fuel delivery, anything else? that can be used to judge this = > system against others. I don't know the exact pulse width resolution, but I'm sure Ray Hall can give you the specs. I use the SMC, similar to the SM2, but missing a couple inputs and outputs for traction control, idle air, and some other niceties. It has no problem controlling large injectors (96 lb/hr) at idle. I'm able to make small corrections in fuel delivery. Ignition is similarly accurate. I understand they're also coming out with a knock sensing unit that will interface with their ECU, and do the usual individual spark and fuel adjustment. I believe it will also reduce the turbo boost, if necessary. - Clay ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 08:42:33 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA30019 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:42:33 -0800 Received: from mail.houston.rr.com ([24.93.35.225]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA30014 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:42:24 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [24.93.35.225] claimed to be mail.houston.rr.com Received: from mail pickup service by mail.houston.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:32:56 -0600 Received: from sm4.texas.rr.com ([24.93.35.211]) by mail.houston.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:14:26 -0600 Received: from happy.firstnethou.com (happy.firstnethou.com [206.42.12.1]) by sm4.texas.rr.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f24AEPL21819 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:14:25 -0600 Received: from hektor.valesh.com (majordom@hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) by happy.firstnethou.com (SGI-SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA73472 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:17:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA17608 for diy_efi-digest-outgoing; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 01:00:25 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA17593 for DIY_EFI-Digest-Send@lists.diy-efi.org; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Message-Id: <200103040900.BAA17593@hektor.valesh.com> From: DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner@diy-efi.org (DIY_EFI Digest) To: DIY_EFI-Digest@lists.diy-efi.org Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #518 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, March 4 2001 Volume 05 : Number 518 In this issue: Re: new Honda NTK sensor price Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...) Hello... and into to my KE-Jet project Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...) Problems with Zytec equiped Mazda Rally car. Re: Hello... and into to my KE-Jet project Re: Problems with Zytec equiped Mazda Rally car. Re: Hello... and into to my KE-Jet project Cal Map Software for Accel DFI RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 08:37:23 -0500 From: "Jason R. Haines" Subject: Re: new Honda NTK sensor price Sorry, sometimes I forget the international scope of this mailing list (you would think the Spanish, French and German junk mail I now get would remind me 8-) ). Yes, I was talking US dollars. BTW - thanks for the information on trying Canadian Honda dealers. Jason > > I thought some people might be interested to know that I called my local > > Honda dealer to get a price and availability quote on the Honda NTK > sensor. > > The price has gone up even higher. They quoted me a list price of $296.85. > > Jason > > I am safe to assume that this is a 'merican price? The Canadian Honda list > price for the 36531-P07-003 is $213.57, which I wholesale for $181.53 Cdn. > That works out to about $120 US. Just start ordering them from a Canadian > dealer. These price differences are quite common in fact and go either way. > If you are looking for a Honda part and the price seems out of wack, try > across the border. Oh yah, I also checked availability and Honda Can has > about 40 of these in stock. > > Chris "Mighty Mouse" Capowski > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:42:55 -0800 From: "Andrew R. Ghali" Subject: Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...) Let me throw my 2 cents in here for what it's worth: the problem with DC is turning it on & off. Generally, a CDI uses an SCR (silicon controlled rectifier) which works like this: when there is DC across it, it is off and will remain off until a trigger is applied to the gate. Once this happens, the SCR will remain switched on with a low impedence until the voltage across it goes to 0 (i.e. a zero crossing). This is what the capacitor does for you - it discharges through the coil primary until it's vlotage drops to zero, when the SCR shuts off (the zero crossing is actually due to th LC tank formed by the cap and coil). SCR's are used because they dissipate low power, require lower drive current, are small and cheap. If you tried to switch HV DC directly to the coil, you'd have to use industrial switching transistors rated for at least 600V, with a substantial HV diode behind it so the back EMF from the coil (at switch off) doesn't instantly destroy the transistor. These devices are larger, more expensive, disappate more power and require more drive than an SCR. At least, this is my under- standing of the issue. Here's a reference on SCR's: http://www.americanmicrosemi.com/tutorials/scr.htm Hope that helps a little bit. Andrew On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:41:24 -0800 (PST), Carter Shore wrote: >... >Sure, I'd drive the coil with a push-pull DC switching >circuit, an H bridge driver. There are already power >IC's to do this, for controlling DC motors and such. > >You would need to calculate the frequency of the >pulses (and perhaps still use one of those pesky >capacitors) to match the coil and configuration. The >output of the coil would be a sinusoid (approximately) >of constant peak voltage, though it would be clipped >to the arc over voltage of the plug at each firing. > >The number of pulses delivered would be controlled by >the ECU 'gating' signal. > >There would still be some energy left in the system at >gate OFF time, so you might need to absorb that >somehow. But it might be OK to just let it dissipate >naturally, or perhaps short the primary through a >shunt resistor. > >One circuit for each spark plug. Sounds like a CNP >module.(!?) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 15:40:11 -0800 From: "Shad Laws" Subject: Hello... and into to my KE-Jet project Hello- I just joined DIY-EFI and hope I'll be able to contribute some info as well as draw some from you guys :-) Here's my project: a 1971 VW Karmann Ghia, running a modified, upright-cooling-converted 1973 Porsche 914 2.0L engine with air conditioning that I built. For ignition control, I'm currently using a fully-adjustable dual-advance distributor (which isn't all that bad...), made from mixing and matching parts from old VW Bosch distributors (see March-May 2001 "VW Trends" to see how... :-). Of course, it operates without points and with a CDI box, so it's pretty nice. I don't really feel a great need to toy with this... However, it also has a "well-tuned" pair of Weber 40IDFs w/ 32mm venturis. "Well-tuned" is a very relative term - they are still carburetors and I would like to see them go! Taking cross-country trips with bags of spare jets for the Rockies is neat in that esoteric sort of way, but it gets old. I purchased the entire intake system from a 1984 Mercedes 190E 4-cylinder 2.3L. It is a KE-Jetronic system, which is essentially a purely mechanical fuel injection system with an electromagnetic control valve to alter the mixture from ideal as needed. This (and something to the fuel pump in the way of a relay or something of course) is the only output I want from the electronics system. I do plan to design a setup so I can change the current manually in the event of a failure, because around 10mA of current, a pot to adjust it, and a fuel mixture LED strip (which I already have) should do the trick nicely. Anyway, I already have the design for the non-electronic part of the system, complete with tuned runners and plenum to take advantage of resonance induction effects and the stock 2 3/8" Mercedes throttle body. That should be more than adequate... Here's the catch: the KE-Jetronic ECU likes water temperature as an input and wants my car to run mostly stochiometric. The aircooled engine wants to be rich under load, around 0.94 or so does nicely. By WOT, like any engine, 0.85 does make the seat of your pants happier, too. So, I planned to toy with the signal coming from the lambda sensor to force the computer into letting me run rich. However, after awhile, I realized that this band-aid approach was too much of a pain for what it was worth, especially after all the wiring diagrams I got for the danged ECU conflicted with one another and with the available pins on the device itself! Here's what I have as inputs: - -lambda O2 sensor on exhaust (4-wire type, so heats up quickly) [voltage] - -cylinder head temperature (thermocouple on a spark plug) [voltage] - -"engine speed" (cheap and easy - use the DF terminal from the generator) [voltage] - -closed throttle and WOT [toggle switches] - -throttle position sensor (currently a pot on the design board, but open to suggestions...) [resistance] I'm an ME and a ChE, so EE is the number one area I'd need help in :-) I have a good knowledge of electricity, fabrication, logic, programming, thermodynamics, mathematics, yadda yadda yadda, but just a very superficial base in electronics. BTW, on the "engine speed," I could also use the magnetic triggering module as a sensor - it gives a 12V pulse every time a spark plug fires. However, that's more accurate than I need... Since I still have a generator, there is a signal to the generator given by the voltage regulator to offset the voltage (which increases with RPM) enough so the net output is 12-14V. I figured it was a cheap and easy way to get a simple, although not terribly accurate, voltage reading. Ideally, what I'd like is the following: - -Use the CHT as my engine temperature sensor, giving me a bit to warm up by. - -Use a custom-built mixture profile using throttle position and the WOT switch as its variables to tell what my mixture should be. - -Use the lambda sensor to tell what the current mixture is (yes, I know it gets somewhat insensitive as you go away from 1.00) - -Use the closed throttle switch and the "engine speed" sensor to tell when the throttle is closed and I'm over about 2000rpm so I can kill the fuel supply, making mother earth happy with me :-) - -Use the "engine speed" sensor to tell when I'm over around 6000rpm to kill the fuel supply, making my engine innards very happy with my failed shift :-) I *think* that using an old laptop running in MS-DOS with GWBASIC or something of that nature would provide a stable, simple, and RELIABLE processor for the whole thing. On paper, it looks pretty easy: - -inputs: 3 voltage, 1 resistance, 2 toggle switch - -outputs: 1 current ...and NO ignition pulses to count or injector pulses to give! Simplicity... I can build the data tables and write the code, but designing the interface card for the computer is where I need help. How would I go about doing this, or is there something I can already buy? Anyone toyed with cards from companies like Elan Digital Systems in the UK? I also plan to use a seperate solenoid triggered by the A/C system I built to open a bypass valve to raise my idle with the A/C, but this can be entirely seperate from the rest of the system. Thank you for your time - I really do appreciate it. I thank you in advance for any help/advice you could give and hope I can give back the same... Take care, Shad Laws - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 13:39:22 -0800 (PST) From: Carter Shore Subject: Re: HV DC ignition (was RE: CDI ...) Yah, that was my initial objection to the DC scheme too. But what I failed to include in my last response, was to also put a HV DC rectifier circuit between the coil secondary and the spark plug. This would allow you to drive the primary of the coil with the H bridge driver, gated by the ECM, and create the desired HV DC ( > 25,000 V) at the spark plug. The technology for HV DC rectifiers is certainly mature, having been used in TV's for at least 25 years. But once again, I must ask, is there any advantage? Carter Shore - --- "Andrew R. Ghali" wrote: > > Let me throw my 2 cents in here for what it's worth: > the problem with DC is > turning it on & off. Generally, a CDI uses an SCR > (silicon controlled > rectifier) which works like this: when there is DC > across it, it is off > and will remain off until a trigger is applied to > the gate. Once this > happens, the SCR will remain switched on with a low > impedence until the > voltage across it goes to 0 (i.e. a zero crossing). > This is what the > capacitor does for you - it discharges through the > coil primary until it's > vlotage drops to zero, when the SCR shuts off (the > zero crossing is actually > due to th LC tank formed by the cap and coil). > SCR's are used because they > dissipate low power, require lower drive current, > are small and cheap. If > you tried to switch HV DC directly to the coil, > you'd have to use industrial > switching transistors rated for at least 600V, with > a substantial HV diode > behind it so the back EMF from the coil (at switch > off) doesn't instantly > destroy the transistor. These devices are larger, > more expensive, disappate > more power and require more drive than an SCR. At > least, this is my under- > standing of the issue. > > Here's a reference on SCR's: > http://www.americanmicrosemi.com/tutorials/scr.htm > > Hope that helps a little bit. > > Andrew > > On Fri, 2 Mar 2001 07:41:24 -0800 (PST), Carter > Shore wrote: > >... > >Sure, I'd drive the coil with a push-pull DC > switching > >circuit, an H bridge driver. There are already > power > >IC's to do this, for controlling DC motors and > such. > > > >You would need to calculate the frequency of the > >pulses (and perhaps still use one of those pesky > >capacitors) to match the coil and configuration. > The > >output of the coil would be a sinusoid > (approximately) > >of constant peak voltage, though it would be > clipped > >to the arc over voltage of the plug at each firing. > > > >The number of pulses delivered would be controlled > by > >the ECU 'gating' signal. > > > >There would still be some energy left in the system > at > >gate OFF time, so you might need to absorb that > >somehow. But it might be OK to just let it > dissipate > >naturally, or perhaps short the primary through a > >shunt resistor. > > > >One circuit for each spark plug. Sounds like a CNP > >module.(!?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 02:53:20 +0100 From: espen hilde Subject: Problems with Zytec equiped Mazda Rally car. Hi! Trying to help a friend who has a used 1987 Mazda 323 16v turbo 260hp groupe A Rally car.He has not driven the car and has problems getting the engine to start. he wants to partisipate in a rally in a week. First he discovered a bad vier for +to the coil inside the car ,this was fixed and the engine started ,he tuched the trottle and the engine died. No sparks after that. The car has a early Zytec injection the driver for the injectors are in a separate box and the driver for coil and coil are Rover / Lucas. The crank trigger is a thin plate with a missing 5cm part,its a hall sensor . this sensor is allmost brand new because of vier break near the sensor. when I ohm ed this sensor with 3 viers one black one green and one red, It ohmed 165ohm between the black and red vier,the green did not give any ohm at all ,and no signal when tested with a regular digital ohm meter was readed when trying to start the engine .Measuring the connector from ecu gave 12v from red and 12 v from green and black was ground.I did not hear any clikking when listening to the injectors with a piece of steel.5 volts was present to the sensors at ignition on .I tought the ecu or driver box was dead since it was no activity at the injectors but after I checked with a volt meter it was flikking volts when cranking,later I checked the input to the coil driver the same way and it was some changing voltage at cranking. Anyone now how to check the hall sensor properly? Maybe the coil driver is bad,is it possible to test this easy? Can any coil driver be used? Thanks in advance for any input. Espen . - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:34:44 -0600 From: Holly and Chris Mills Subject: Re: Hello... and into to my KE-Jet project Wow. You're heading down the same route I have been pondering - almost on the same car. I've got a '78 Bus and a '65 Beetle with a '78 Bus engine in it (converted to upright via the 911 replica kit - but I'm going to rework the lower shrouds to control warm up) and I want to eventually convert both to KE-Jetronic. The bus is running the OEM stuff and the Beetle was running dual Dells - 36mm the last I drove it. I'm mostly working on exterior looks but reading as much as I can about this type conversion for the fuel system so when I get there I'll be ready. Please post your results as you go along, I'd love to follow along and learn. At 05:40 PM 3/3/01, you wrote: >Hello- > >I just joined DIY-EFI and hope I'll be able to contribute some info as well >as draw >some from you guys :-) > >Here's my project: a 1971 VW Karmann Ghia, running a modified, >upright-cooling-converted 1973 Porsche 914 2.0L engine with air conditioning >that I built. > >For ignition control, I'm currently using a fully-adjustable dual-advance >distributor (which isn't all that bad...), made from mixing and matching >parts from old VW Bosch distributors (see March-May 2001 "VW Trends" to see >how... :-). Of course, it operates without points and with a CDI box, so >it's pretty nice. I don't really feel a great need to toy with this... > >However, it also has a "well-tuned" pair of Weber 40IDFs w/ 32mm venturis. >"Well-tuned" is a very relative term - they are still carburetors and I >would like to see them go! Taking cross-country trips with bags of spare >jets for the Rockies is neat in that esoteric sort of way, but it gets old. > >I purchased the entire intake system from a 1984 Mercedes 190E 4-cylinder >2.3L. It is a KE-Jetronic system, which is essentially a purely mechanical >fuel injection system with an electromagnetic control valve to alter the >mixture from ideal as needed. This (and something to the fuel pump in the >way of a relay or something of course) is the only output I want from the >electronics system. I do plan to design a setup so I can change the current >manually in the event of a failure, because around 10mA of current, a pot to >adjust it, and a fuel mixture LED strip (which I already have) should do the >trick nicely. > >Anyway, I already have the design for the non-electronic part of the system, >complete with tuned runners and plenum to take advantage of resonance >induction effects and the stock 2 3/8" Mercedes throttle body. That should >be >more than adequate... > >Here's the catch: the KE-Jetronic ECU likes water temperature as an input >and wants my car to run mostly stochiometric. The aircooled engine wants to >be rich under load, around 0.94 or so does nicely. By WOT, like any engine, >0.85 does make the seat of your pants happier, too. So, I planned to toy >with the signal coming from the lambda sensor to force the computer into >letting me run rich. However, after awhile, I realized that this band-aid >approach was too much of a pain for what it was worth, especially after all >the wiring diagrams I got for the danged ECU conflicted with one another and >with the available pins on the device itself! > >Here's what I have as inputs: >-lambda O2 sensor on exhaust (4-wire type, so heats up quickly) [voltage] >-cylinder head temperature (thermocouple on a spark plug) [voltage] >-"engine speed" (cheap and easy - use the DF terminal from the generator) >[voltage] >-closed throttle and WOT [toggle switches] >-throttle position sensor (currently a pot on the design board, but open to >suggestions...) [resistance] > >I'm an ME and a ChE, so EE is the number one area I'd need help in :-) I >have a good knowledge of electricity, fabrication, logic, programming, >thermodynamics, mathematics, yadda yadda yadda, but just a very >superficial base in electronics. > >BTW, on the "engine speed," I could also use the magnetic triggering module >as a sensor - it gives a 12V pulse every time a spark plug fires. However, >that's more accurate than I need... Since I still have a generator, there is >a signal to the generator given by the voltage regulator to offset the >voltage (which increases with RPM) enough so the net output is 12-14V. I >figured it was a cheap and easy way to get a simple, although not terribly >accurate, voltage reading. > >Ideally, what I'd like is the following: >-Use the CHT as my engine temperature sensor, giving me a bit to warm up by. >-Use a custom-built mixture profile using throttle position and the WOT >switch as its variables to tell what my mixture should be. >-Use the lambda sensor to tell what the current mixture is (yes, I know it >gets somewhat insensitive as you go away from 1.00) >-Use the closed throttle switch and the "engine speed" sensor to tell when >the throttle is closed and I'm over about 2000rpm so I can kill the fuel >supply, making mother earth happy with me :-) >-Use the "engine speed" sensor to tell when I'm over around 6000rpm to kill >the fuel supply, making my engine innards very happy with my failed shift >:-) > >I *think* that using an old laptop running in MS-DOS with GWBASIC or >something of that nature would provide a stable, simple, and RELIABLE >processor for the whole thing. On paper, it looks pretty easy: >-inputs: 3 voltage, 1 resistance, 2 toggle switch >-outputs: 1 current >...and NO ignition pulses to count or injector pulses to give! >Simplicity... > >I can build the data tables and write the code, but designing the interface >card for the computer is where I need help. How would I go about doing >this, or is there something I can already buy? Anyone toyed with cards from >companies like Elan Digital Systems in the UK? > >I also plan to use a seperate solenoid triggered by the A/C system I built >to open a bypass valve to raise my idle with the A/C, but this can be >entirely seperate from the rest of the system. > >Thank you for your time - I really do appreciate it. I thank you in advance >for any help/advice you could give and hope I can give back the same... > >Take care, >Shad Laws > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org CHRIS in Middle Tennessee scmills@tntech.edu ICQ: 5944649 '78 VW Westfalia '65 Beetle (Type IV powered) '99 CR-V 5 speed '49 Chevy 3100 Pickup '81 Honda CB900C For Sale: 1and a half LM 110HP Corvair motors $125 1 LM 3.55 4 speed Corvair tranny $75 1 EM 80 HP engine $100 1 set of header pipes for a Corvair $25 1 adaptor plate for Corvair engine to VW transaxle $25 1 1949 Chevy Pickup, 3100, black, original, good driver restored bed, no rust, 6V $3000 I VW bus driver's door $25 (no glass) 1 VW bus rear hatch $18 (glass) '72 Hodaka Wombat Enduro (no lights anymore, needs clutch) $150 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 23:52:10 -0700 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: Problems with Zytec equiped Mazda Rally car. Do you have a labscope ? Can you view the pattern from the hall effect--engine cranking ? It should be a nice clean square wave--same voltage out as supplied voltage. Lyndon. - -----Original Message----- From: espen hilde To: 'diy_efi@diy-efi.org' Date: March 3, 2001 6:48 PM Subject: Problems with Zytec equiped Mazda Rally car. >Hi! >Trying to help a friend who has a used 1987 Mazda 323 16v turbo 260hp >groupe A >Rally car.He has not driven the car and has problems getting the engine to >start. he wants to partisipate in a rally in a week. >First he discovered a bad vier for +to the coil inside the car ,this was >fixed and the engine started ,he tuched the trottle and the engine died. No >sparks >after that. >The car has a early Zytec injection the driver for the injectors are in a >separate box and the driver for coil and coil are Rover / Lucas. >The crank trigger is a thin plate with a missing 5cm part,its a hall sensor >. >this sensor is allmost brand new because of vier break near the sensor. >when I ohm ed this sensor with 3 viers one black one green and one red, >It ohmed 165ohm between the black and red vier,the green did not give any >ohm at all ,and no signal when tested with a regular digital ohm meter was >readed when trying to start the engine .Measuring the connector from ecu >gave 12v from red and 12 v from green and black was ground.I did not hear >any clikking when listening to the injectors with a piece of steel.5 volts >was present to the sensors at ignition on .I tought the ecu or driver box >was dead since it was no activity at the injectors but after I checked with >a volt meter >it was flikking volts when cranking,later I checked the input to the coil >driver the same way and it was some changing voltage at cranking. >Anyone now how to check the hall sensor properly? >Maybe the coil driver is bad,is it possible to test this easy? >Can any coil driver be used? >Thanks in advance for any input. >Espen . >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 23:44:20 -0800 From: "Shad Laws" Subject: Re: Hello... and into to my KE-Jet project Hey Chris- > I've got a '78 Bus and a '65 Beetle with a '78 Bus engine in it (converted > to upright via the 911 replica kit - but I'm going to rework the lower > shrouds to control warm up) and I want to eventually convert both to > KE-Jetronic. The bus is running the OEM stuff and the Beetle was running > dual Dells - 36mm the last I drove it. > > Please post your results as you go along, I'd love to follow along and learn. Well, here's the details of the design as they stand now: First off, I found the biggest 4-cylinder engine I could with a KE-Jet system, and tried to shy away from engines with ignition timing and/or extra goodies I didn't want (i.e. pre-1986 is nice). So, I nabbed the complete intake and fuel delivery system from the '84 Mercedes 2.3L. It has a 60mm throttle body which, according to my calculations, is more than plenty for my 5800rpm 2.0L engine :-) I'm taking stock Porsche 914 2.0L runners and modifying them. Basically, I'm cutting them off before they turn and hit my fan shroud and modifying the injector bosses and holders to accept the CIS injectors, then bolting these modified units straight on. They are beautiful, well-cast, smooth pieces - gotta take advantage of them! Then, I noted that the OD of these runners (after the cast-on part near the very end - they're pretty thin after those end) is almost exactly 1.5". So, I found a source for smooth-walled 1.5" ID silicone rubber flex hose to go over them. I can very easily cut this flex hose to any length I want, making tuning for resonance induction effects a snap. Then, I'll make a simple plenum with a volume that will aid in the resonance tuning to mate the four runners and a 2.5" flex hose of the same type as the other stuff. This flex hose will run to the right side of the engine compartment (lotsa room there in a Ghia) to meet the throttle body (which is very nicely connected to the air flow meter and fuel distributor thanks to Mercedes...). The air cleaner I'll fabricate myself and I haven't decided whether to use a paper element for it or just make an all-out oil bath cleaner, but I know that I'd like to stay away from the K&N so-called "filters." Of course, for fuel delivery I'm just using the Mercedes fuel pump and related goodies along with two new lines I'll have to run . On paper, the setup sounds pretty nice! We'll see how it all fits together in the end... The electronics part I talked about in the other post... Right now, I heavily leaning toward ready-made electronics, i.e. a laptop and a specialty interface PCMCIA card. That keeps the electronic fabrication to a minimum (my weak point) and the programming/design/etc. part to a maximum (my strong point). Plus, the programming is much simpler than it would be for pulsed injection... coupled with my fully-adjustable dual-advance distributor w/o points and w/ a CDI box, it'll do nicely for a simple and adjustable setup. In fact, if the entire electronics system fails, all I have to do is supply a variable current to the electromagnetic valve (adjustable by a pot) and the car keeps going on purely non-electronic means. Beautiful for when I'm beta testing this while travelling cross-country :-) Take care, Shad - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 01:00:47 EST From: RSRACE@aol.com Subject: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI - --part1_68.c8c3a85.27d3340f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have the software for Accel DFI. I am looking at purchasing it for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and possibly save $200. E-mail me if you have info. Thanks Tom - --part1_68.c8c3a85.27d3340f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have the software for Accel DFI.  I am looking at purchasing it
for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and possibly save
$200.  E-mail me if you have info.

Thanks
Tom - --part1_68.c8c3a85.27d3340f_boundary-- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:24:51 -0800 From: "Bob Wooten" Subject: RE: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C0A430.C3AF3980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, I read an article about a gent that worked for Accels parent company that just built this wicked 1000 hp turbo motor. he was using the latest version of the CalMap software (CalMap 2001 or something like that). this is supposed to go along with their next gen ECM's that I hear are not out yet. from what I understand, both are supposed to be worth the wait. one of the guys on this list (Pretty sure it was this list), just got the new eval version of it & was goo goo about it. he said that he had to call them to get them to send it to him. from what it sounds Accel is pretty serious about this now & are making stuff to compete with the WBO2 units & w/easier programmability. Good luck Bob Wooten -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of RSRACE@aol.com Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:01 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Cal Map Software for Accel DFI Does anyone have the software for Accel DFI. I am looking at purchasing it for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and possibly save $200. E-mail me if you have info. Thanks Tom - ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C0A430.C3AF3980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tom,
 
I read=20 an article about a gent that worked for Accels parent company that just = built=20 this wicked 1000 hp turbo motor.  he was using the latest version = of the=20 CalMap software (CalMap 2001 or something like that).  this is = supposed to=20 go along with their next gen ECM's that I hear are not out yet.  = from what=20 I understand, both are supposed to be worth the wait.  one of the = guys on=20 this list (Pretty sure it was this list), just got the new eval version = of it=20 & was goo goo about it.  he said that he had to call them to = get them=20 to send it to him. 
 
from=20 what it sounds Accel is pretty serious about this now & are making = stuff to=20 compete with the WBO2 units & w/easier = programmability.
 
Good=20 luck
Bob=20 Wooten
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org=20 [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of=20 RSRACE@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 10:01=20 PM
To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org
Subject: Cal Map = Software for=20 Accel DFI

Does=20 anyone have the software for Accel DFI.  I am looking at = purchasing it=20
for a Vette Project and would like to see the software and = possibly save=20
$200.  E-mail me if you have info.

Thanks =
Tom=20
- ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C0A430.C3AF3980-- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #518 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 08:43:19 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA30057 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:43:19 -0800 Received: from mail.houston.rr.com ([24.93.35.225]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA30035 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:42:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [24.93.35.225] claimed to be mail.houston.rr.com Received: from mail pickup service by mail.houston.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:33:29 -0600 Received: from sm4.texas.rr.com ([24.93.35.211]) by mail.houston.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Fri, 2 Mar 2001 03:42:19 -0600 Received: from happy.firstnethou.com (happy.firstnethou.com [206.42.12.1]) by sm4.texas.rr.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f229gJL03955 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 03:42:19 -0600 Received: from hektor.valesh.com (majordom@hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) by happy.firstnethou.com (SGI-SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05867 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 03:44:55 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA31543 for diy_efi-digest-outgoing; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 01:00:25 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA31530 for DIY_EFI-Digest-Send@lists.diy-efi.org; Fri, 2 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 01:00:12 -0800 Message-Id: <200103020900.BAA31530@hektor.valesh.com> From: DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner@diy-efi.org (DIY_EFI Digest) To: DIY_EFI-Digest@lists.diy-efi.org Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #515 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org DIY_EFI Digest Friday, March 2 2001 Volume 05 : Number 515 In this issue: Re: CDI systems info wanted Re: CDI systems info wanted Re: CDI systems info wanted Re: CDI systems info wanted Re: CDI systems info wanted Electromotive software Re: Electromotive software Re: Electromotive software Re: Igniters => DIS Re: Electromotive software Re: DIY- UEGO Mitsubishi EFI promedit Re: new Honda NTK sensor price CNP coils Re: DIY- UEGO See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:32 +0100 From: Arnaud Westenberg Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted Carter Shore wrote: > > Arnaud, > > There are some schematics of older CDI boxes out > there, that utilize only a couple of transistors, and > no IC's to produce a simple and reliable CDI function. > The simplicity of these systems allows easy analysis > of the the fundamental CDI operation. Attaching a > scope (with suitable HV probe) while operating is very > revealing. Do you have any pointers to those schematics so I can study a bit more? The simplicity of the schematics would really get me started :-) > I'm not quite sure what advantage you seek by > eliminating the capacitor. It's an integral part of > the system's operation. My idea was instead of discharging a capacitor into the primary of the coil, directly feeding the primary of the coil with an HV AC power supply. This would eliminate the ringing of the capacitor/coil combo and spark duration would be as long as one feeds the coil from the power supply. It's just an idea of a Mechanical engineer and I don't know if it can be realized due to the power requirements, maybe the power supply would be huge. > A single high voltage (400-600 V) power inverter can > easily supply enough energy to run several different > capacitor/SCR/coil sets, one for each spark plug. This > gives the simplicity and economy of a single HV power > stage, with the flexibility and fine control of > individual distributorless triggering. I see, but where do I look for information about how these power inverters operate and their construction? Would it be possible to build such a circuit wich directly powers the primary of the coil instead of charging a capacitor? Thanks again, Arnaud - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:47 +0100 From: Arnaud Westenberg Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted Warwick Anderson wrote: > > Iv got a good modern CDI/MSD which Im building slowly, I mean to scan the > plans for any who wants em... I would really appreciate that! > this unit can multi spark or be slightly changed to only spark twice per > firing. > In the plans it, it states it can handle 15,000 RPM for a V8. Indeed, this sounds like a rather sophisticated system. I'm getting really interested in your project! > for a basic CDI plan look at this link > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm > this one has one better thing than mine, it uses an off the shelf > transformer, where as mine you have to wind your own. something which im > still stuck on.... Thanks for the link, I'm going to study this system thoroughly. Maybe it does have an of the shelf transformer but it also says it's limited to 10Hz spark rate. As for the transformer, my luck is that I have an oncle who produces them for a living so I should be able to work that part out with him :-)) I still want to do everything myself, as much as I can, but you'll probably understand that or you wouldn't be on a DIY list :-) Arnaud - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:39 +0100 From: Arnaud Westenberg Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted chetwagner@qwest.net wrote: > > I have a couple of books with schematics of some older CDI systems. > I could hook my scanner back up and scan them so they can be put on incoming. > Let me know so I know if I have to fight with the internal scanner > card. Yes please fight that card :-) I really appreciate the information from you guys. > You could make a high voltage/frequency supply using a > frequency circuit and an ignition coil. I have made these before for > my high voltage projects, so I know that these can produce some > substantial sparks with the proper parts. Could you please elaborate a bit more on the power supply? What do you mean by frequency circuit, is that the subsystem driving the primary side of the transformer? Thanks, Arnaud - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:41 +0100 From: Arnaud Westenberg Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted Jurgen Hartwig wrote: > > I don't know jack about the inner workings of CDI, but there is an article > about the MSD-6A ignition box on the ftp site: > > ftp://ftp.diy-efi.org/pub/diy_efi/documents/msd6a_02.pdf Thanks for the link. I'll have to study a lot more before I can make some sense of the schematics though. Greetings Arnaud - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 10:13:52 +0100 From: Arnaud Westenberg Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted Stephen Burgess wrote: > > With my limited electronic knowledge I attempted to peek inside one of those > mysterious black boxes.....Friggin thing is so complicated it probably could > control a lot more than just a couple of coils charging.... Hmm, lets hope these systems don't necessarily have to be complecated because I'm no EE either, but hey, I'm willing to learn :-)) > What machine are you working on??? maybee your chip swap would work for my > purposes? I'm riding a Suzuki gsx 1100 '81. Although the transistor could be seen as a chip, it's not the ECU chip swap kind of thing, it's just a replacement for the older points systems. I don't know what you're looking for though. Arnaud - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 11:10:12 -0700 From: "Programmer" Subject: Electromotive software Hey guys, Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a very tuneable system. Lyndon. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 12:21:47 -0600 From: Gabe Subject: Re: Electromotive software I have an Electromotive system in my Vette.... I've been looking at their windows based software, but haven't purchased it yet (still running the DOS based super*blend software). I feel it's immensely easier to tune than my TPI 1227165 system on my truck, although not nearly as sophisticated. Gabe Programmer wrote: > Hey guys, > Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod > using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a > very tuneable system. > > Lyndon. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 12:04:32 -0700 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: Electromotive software What kind of $$$ did you end up spending ? Lyndon. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gabe To: Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:21 AM Subject: Re: Electromotive software > I have an Electromotive system in my Vette.... I've been looking at their > windows based software, but haven't purchased it yet (still running the DOS > based super*blend software). I feel it's immensely easier to tune than my TPI > 1227165 system on my truck, although not nearly as sophisticated. > > Gabe > > Programmer wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod > > using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a > > very tuneable system. > > > > Lyndon. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:13:43 -0600 From: "Jurgen Hartwig" Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS > They are already going on 2001 trucks too. I found them on a 00' suburban > 5.3L engine. GM part # 10457730. I still wonder if these have dwell > control however, because this could still be controlled at the PCM. How > were you able to verify that they do have dwell control? > James, I do not have any proof they have dwell control, other than that which was posted by Garfield. In both posts, he plainly stated they control dwell within and require a TTL level input. If someone with more capacity than I is willing to test a coil, take some pictures, and do a writeup, I will pay for a single Smartcoil/CNP. Waiting to hear back from the local dealer regarding the CNP. Will post with results. Jay - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 13:20:30 -0600 From: Gabe Subject: Re: Electromotive software Well.... That was 4 years ago, before I knew what could be done with a GMECM..... I got everything for a SBC - manifold, 27 lb/hr injectors, 4bbl 1,000 cfm airdoors, all sensors, high volume - high pressure fuel pump, software, all the tech support I wanted, etc.... Ended up having about $2,700 in it in the end. Could have done it much cheaper if I had the knowledge I have now. Live & learn..... If you go that route, just get their ECM/software and do the rest yourself, save lots of $$$. Gabe Programmer wrote: > What kind of $$$ did you end up spending ? > > Lyndon. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gabe > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 11:21 AM > Subject: Re: Electromotive software > > > I have an Electromotive system in my Vette.... I've been looking at their > > windows based software, but haven't purchased it yet (still running the > DOS > > based super*blend software). I feel it's immensely easier to tune than my > TPI > > 1227165 system on my truck, although not nearly as sophisticated. > > > > Gabe > > > > Programmer wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, > > > Anyone see the issue of "Sport Compact Car" with the Subaru Impreza mod > > > using the Electromotice TECII software ?? Looks very cool...Looks like a > > > very tuneable system. > > > > > > Lyndon. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the > quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 17:26:30 -0500 From: rr Subject: Re: DIY- UEGO Oh, I don't think I'd call it crude. Maybe still a prototype, but not crude. I am thankful that someone took the time to put something together. BobR. Chad Clendening wrote: > Everything in the "CRUDE wide ratio O2 model is an approximation of how the UEGO appears to > work. > > Chad > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:30:31 -0800 From: Peter Teulings Subject: Mitsubishi EFI Dear Mark, I found your website when looking for information about the diagnostics port of my Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4. I want to build a proprietary datalogger/scantool for my Psion computer and am looking for the protocol of the diagnostics port of the EFI. Do you know where I would be able to get such information? Thank in advance for your help. Sincerely yours, Peter Teulings - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 21:37:26 -0500 From: Chris Abreu Subject: promedit Can somebody please tell me how to change the values using promedit. Im sorry to waste everyone's time with what seems to be a stupid question. Ive been playing with the program for a while and can't figure out how to change the values. thanks chris - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 21:50:49 -0500 From: "Chris Capowski" Subject: Re: new Honda NTK sensor price - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason R. Haines" > I thought some people might be interested to know that I called my local > Honda dealer to get a price and availability quote on the Honda NTK sensor. > The price has gone up even higher. They quoted me a list price of $296.85. > Jason I am safe to assume that this is a 'merican price? The Canadian Honda list price for the 36531-P07-003 is $213.57, which I wholesale for $181.53 Cdn. That works out to about $120 US. Just start ordering them from a Canadian dealer. These price differences are quite common in fact and go either way. If you are looking for a Honda part and the price seems out of wack, try across the border. Oh yah, I also checked availability and Honda Can has about 40 of these in stock. Chris "Mighty Mouse" Capowski - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:02:10 -0800 From: "Bob Wooten" Subject: CNP coils I just got my hand on a CNP coil assy (the entire side off of a car, 4 coils, bracket, harness). I was pinning it out & have a few questions. I was hoping that the next time that someone gets one of these in their shop that they can take a voltage reading for me. this is came off an LS1 donor motor for a 70-something Vette retrofit, so I don't have a car to plug it up to. there are 4 wires per coil (plus the HV) pin 1 is a common to all the coils (the top) Pin 2 is the trigger signal (the next one down) Pin 3 is common to all the coils Pin 4 is common to all the coils (the bottom) from what Gar said, one of the commons is hot (+vcc), one is ground, & the last is the common ground for all the trigger signals. what I was hoping was that someone could take a few voltage readings & let me know what is what. or if someone has a print, that would do as well. I took some resistance readings & it is not readily clear what goes to what. the only thing that is obvious is that from pins 1 - 4 there is a diode across it as I was able to measure the biasing voltage (.518 V) with the meter. this one came off of a 99 Camaro. there was also a 98 TA (the tag on the car reads "600hp TA", believe it, I saw the dyno sheet, blower & squeeze) there that had the exact same setup. the part number on the coils (all 16) was 12558948 (top line, p/n?), 09T29-0200 (bottom line, Date code?) Thanks for the help Bob Wooten r71chevy@earthlink.net www.r71camaro.homestead.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:16:38 -0500 From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: DIY- UEGO My hearty thanks also, Chad - good job!! Barry At 05:26 PM 03/01/2001 -0500, rr wrote: > >Oh, I don't think I'd call it crude. Maybe still a prototype, but not crude. I am >thankful that someone took the time to put something together. > >BobR. > >Chad Clendening wrote: > >> Everything in the "CRUDE wide ratio O2 model is an approximation of how the UEGO appears to >> work. >> >> Chad >> >> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #515 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi". ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org From diy_efi-owner Sat Mar 10 08:44:35 2001 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA30110 for diy_efi-outgoing; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:44:35 -0800 Received: from mail.houston.rr.com ([24.93.35.225]) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with ESMTP id IAA30091 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:44:12 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: hektor.valesh.com: Host [24.93.35.225] claimed to be mail.houston.rr.com Received: from mail pickup service by mail.houston.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 10:34:46 -0600 Received: from sm4.texas.rr.com ([24.93.35.211]) by mail.houston.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Thu, 1 Mar 2001 04:01:20 -0600 Received: from happy.firstnethou.com (happy.firstnethou.com [206.42.12.1]) by sm4.texas.rr.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f219wjL17053 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 03:58:45 -0600 Received: from hektor.valesh.com (majordom@hektor.stardot-tech.com [209.19.108.20]) by happy.firstnethou.com (SGI-SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA68831 for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 03:55:13 -0600 (CST) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA21790 for diy_efi-digest-outgoing; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:00:29 -0800 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hektor.valesh.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id BAA21775 for DIY_EFI-Digest-Send@lists.diy-efi.org; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:00:14 -0800 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:00:14 -0800 Message-Id: <200103010900.BAA21775@hektor.valesh.com> From: DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner@diy-efi.org (DIY_EFI Digest) To: DIY_EFI-Digest@lists.diy-efi.org Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #514 Sender: owner-diy_efi@lists.diy-efi.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, March 1 2001 Volume 05 : Number 514 In this issue: RE: Igniters => DIS Re: Igniters => DIS RE: Igniters => DIS Re: CDI systems info wanted even more simple waste spark help or burnt fingers,smoke and little fried bits... Re: Igniters => DIS Re: CDI systems info wanted Re: CDI systems info wanted DIY- UEGO RE: Igniters => DIS Re: Igniters => DIS RE: Igniters => DIS RE: Igniters => DIS RE: Igniters => DIS See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:45:35 -0800 From: "Bob Wooten" Subject: RE: Igniters => DIS Jurgen, thanks, if you run across the info on the Motorola chip I would be grateful. I would go search their site but what site do I search (Motorola, Cheri or ON semi)? if you cant come up with it, I'll get over it. maybe first I will check the archives for the CNP or was the reference to DIS & Waste spark? I know it is a bunch of work, but it keeps me out of the bars & stimulates the mind. I am running a 383, super ram, 700r4 & a 7730/8D. check it our if you'd like www.r71camaro.homestead.com BW - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Jurgen Hartwig Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:43 AM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS > I have been working on my little DIS project & am counting on the coil > charging for a maximum of 3/4 of a rev of the crank. this being the case @ > idle the circuit would have the longest "on" time @ 23.1 mS @ 650 RPM, & the > shortest time of 1.5 mS @ 10K RPM (yea like my stroker is going to get to > 10K, God I hope not or I will put small bits of stroker all over the road). > think that this would be too long @ idle? I am going to mock it up with > LED's @ first & the plug the coils in later & see what happens. > Bob, in two pieces of literature I have (Ford FI manual and Wolf 3D manual), coil dwell, or charge time, is between 4ms and 6.5ms. I believe those are constant dwell times, and if that is true, then 23.1 ms is probably too much. There is a Motorola chip that controls dwell. However, I forget the number. I can try to find it if you would like, but to be honest, fabricating all this sounds like a lot of time. > > if this does happen to be too long a charge time then maybe I will give > James a ring & see if I cant get some of those smart igniters from him & > skip the IGBT all together. I would much rather pay the $4 each than $30 > each for igniters though. specially if I goto CNP ($30 X 8 = too much) > Bob, if memory serves, those CNP setups already have igniters on board. $240 for CNP, or $20 * 4 for GM coils + $30 * 4 for smart igniters. If you check the archives (1999) somebody (Gar or Bruce or perhaps Shannen) had done a writeup about CNP. I can't remember if they are TTL. If so, they might be your cheapest route. I can't remember what setup you were running (what fuel injection system? Aftermarket or OE?) Jay - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:41:21 -0600 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS Bob Wooten wrote: > > hmmmmmmmmm, there has to be a simple way to time this & keep $ & component > count down. makes me think, & keeps the cob webs out of the head. > > thanks amigo > BW Try the LM1949 from NAt Semi. A smart coil driver, it starts off with full voltage and reduces it as the coil charges. There's an example circuit (Sandy's driver board) on the efi332 page. - --steve - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com ARM,Inc. www.arm.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:59:10 -0800 From: "Bob Wooten" Subject: RE: Igniters => DIS tanx, off to check it out. BW - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org [mailto:owner-diy_efi@diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of steve ravet Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 6:41 PM To: diy_efi@diy-efi.org Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS Bob Wooten wrote: > > hmmmmmmmmm, there has to be a simple way to time this & keep $ & component > count down. makes me think, & keeps the cob webs out of the head. > > thanks amigo > BW Try the LM1949 from NAt Semi. A smart coil driver, it starts off with full voltage and reduces it as the coil charges. There's an example circuit (Sandy's driver board) on the efi332 page. - --steve - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@arm.com ARM,Inc. www.arm.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 13:55:03 +1100 From: "Warwick Anderson" Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted Iv got a good modern CDI/MSD which Im building slowly, I mean to scan the plans for any who wants em... this unit can multi spark or be slightly changed to only spark twice per firing. In the plans it, it states it can handle 15,000 RPM for a V8. now I just need to hunt down the cosworth DFV block... for a basic CDI plan look at this link http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm this one has one better thing than mine, it uses an off the shelf transformer, where as mine you have to wind your own. something which im still stuck on.... Hope this helps Waz. - -Subject: Re: CDI systems info wanted > Interesting project.... > > CDI information is hard to find, and those that have it are usually not in the > spirit of sharing. (maybee they came across it the hard way too, and want some > $$$ for all thier efforts) > > With my limited electronic knowledge I attempted to peek inside one of those > mysterious black boxes.....Friggin thing is so complicated it probably could > control a lot more than just a couple of coils charging.... > > What machine are you working on??? maybee your chip swap would work for my > purposes? > > Arnaud Westenberg wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > First I'd like to thank Rich M for suggesting the Motorola MGP20N40CL as > > a replacement for my broken oem transistor in my motorcycle ignition. > > It's running great again! > > > > I'm considering building a CDI ignition system for my bike and therefore > > I'd like to ask a few questions. The system will be controlled by a > > processor and have a coil per cylinder. Since I'm still in the EE > > learning phase, I'm looking for information about how to build the high > > voltage circuit used to charge the capacitor. > > > > Instead of charging a capacitor, I'm toying with the idea of having a > > high voltage alternating current power supply. Obvious benefit would be > > that spark duration could be as long as needed and could simply be > > controlled by the processor. However I guess that components would be > > quite large due to the power requirements. Are there any standard > > components/circuitry to realize such a power supply from 12V? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Greetings Arnaud > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 14:11:24 +1100 From: "Warwick Anderson" Subject: even more simple waste spark help or burnt fingers,smoke and little fried bits... Im about to build a waste spark system for the Hemi. Iv got 3 coils from a Toyota waste spark system, in which one coil pak sits on the plug and has a lead going to the other plug. to trigger this I will have 3 reluctor pickups and a single trigger. each reluctor pulse will go to a normal elec.ignition module and fire its two plugs. any one see a problem with this? I was going to use the CDI/MSD as a single unit switched by transistors to each coil pak but I think it was defeating the idea of waste spark? as the CDI still has to charge and fire six times as normal. but weather the CDI spark is better then waste spark spark I dont know... When I finish the CDI I might run some dyno tests with both of em. Any help would be great. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@lists.diy-efi.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 22:15:21 -0600 From: "Jurgen Hartwig" Subject: Re: Igniters => DIS > thanks, if you run across the info on the Motorola chip I would be grateful. > I would go search their site but what site do I search (Motorola, Cheri or > ON semi)? if you cant come up with it, I'll get over it. maybe first I > will check the archives for the CNP or was the reference to DIS & Waste > spark? > Hello Bob, I brainstormed and remembered where I saw the Motorola chip. A fellow from my alma mater, Georgia Tech, designed a DIS system for one of the school's Formula cars. The write-up is on the DIY-EFI webpage. The portion of the article you need to view is in Portion 2, labeled "Ignitor." Duh!!! :) Here is the weblink, http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi/projects/ddis/ddis2.htm I am no electronics expert by any means, but this looks to be what you are looking for. It has TTL input & dwell control, so it appears to fit your needs. Please excuse me if I am wrong. Regarding the CNP, or rather Smartcoil, as it was called in 1998 archives, here are two pieces you and others might find interesting. Both below quotes were written by Gar, I believe of EGOR fame. "A guy in our Aviation group that works in a GM lab sent me one of these off a decommissioned test vehicle, and they are NOT mere IGN coils, they're complete single-coil IGN "systems". They contain ALL the electronics for dwell control, current limiting, etc etc. These coils are DIRECTLY run from the ECM/PCM. There is NO module. They have 4 terminals (plus the HV terminal, that uses these ratchet style terminals I was tellin bout yesterday), two for Bat Gnd, and Bat +12V, and the other two are the digital EST signal and it's low-noise gnd return. Not usable for ION as a transformer-type coil, cuz you cain't get to either the primary or secondary on these puppies, but still a VERY elegant setup, indeed. That ain't all. The biggest shock is yet to come. Brace yerself. They're actually CHEAP (and nice and light, too). I couldn't believe it when I went to check them out further. The GM parts counter LIST price is $41 for each "smart coil", and EVEN the harness for tying four of them together is reasonable, list price of $62. You get 4 connectors for the 4 coils, and another larger connector. Not a bad price for 4 GM connectors and pigtails (if you decided you couldn't use the harness as is), at the very least, and you might even be able to get the bigger connector from Packard! The shorty coil wires (yes, these DON'T squat ontop the coils) have them real nice connectors I mentioned, and they as well are pretty reasonable, at $11 ea list." And "I have nary a clue as to what an ICM is; never heard that before, unless you mean just a "module". But these coils have all the electronics in them to do the dwell compensation, etc., so they have NO module, but are fired directly by a 5V logic level signal coming from the PCM. There is NO separate system for just the IGN, the PCM controls all the IGN & EFI. As far as a retrofit, not without some additional electronics. You need at LEAST a crank wheel to fire these per-plug coils in pairs, and if you really wanna fire only one plug at a time, then you HAVE to have a cam reference as well. In addition to mere triggering, you'd need something to model an advance curve, both the certifugal part that's rpm dependent, and the