From owner-diy_efi Tue Aug 23 20:22:47 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20092; Tue, 23 Aug 94 20:22:47 GMT Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA20083; Tue, 23 Aug 94 16:22:42 -0400 Received: from twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com by wotan.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #11) id m0qd2Kx-000vIfC; Tue, 23 Aug 94 15:20 CDT Received: from bangate.compaq.com by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0qd2JD-000pdBC; Tue, 23 Aug 94 15:19 CDT Message-Id: Received: by bangate.compaq.com with VINES ; Tue, 23 Aug 94 15:19:03 CDT Date: Tue, 23 Aug 94 14:51:10 CDT From: Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com Subject: Multiplex bus for cars. To: diy_efi Cc: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI If you get the EDN Products edition (just came out today), there is an article about a standard bus that SAE has adopted for communication between sensors, controllers, instrument cluster, etc. It is a one or two wire serial bus using variable pulse width modulation. The one wire implementation was developed by GM and has a data rate of 10.4 kbits/sec. The two wire implementation comes from Ford and has a data rate of 41.6 kbits/sec. Harris Semiconductor makes a two chip set to interface to the bus. One handles contention and frames packets. This chip operates from -40C to +125C, and has protection against transients, ESD, and reverse battery connection. The other provides a byte-level interface to a microprocessor. This second chip is available in a "smart" verison that includes a 68HC05 core. The standards are: SAE J1850: physical link layer and message structure. SAE J2178/1: describes actual messages others that the article only mentioned. California already is requiring all car manufacturers to use a common bus to provide emmission data to an external tool. The rest of the US will probably follow suit eventually. Sounds like there will soon be "smart" sensors that interface directly to the bus, eliminating the need for A/D converters, etc. Harris's address is: Harris Semiconductor 724 US Hwy 202 Somerville, NJ 08876 No phone number was listed, and there was no "circle xyz" for more information number. Thought ya'll might find this interesting. --steve From owner-diy_efi Wed Aug 31 20:43:25 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19447; Wed, 31 Aug 94 20:43:25 GMT Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19442; Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:43:19 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by dnxjcit.us.dynix.com with SMTP id AA28081 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:47:09 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA114611; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:42:42 -0600 Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:41:50 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: Hello .. Mc Fly?? To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Have I been dropped .. Or is the list just REAL quiet .. Jim Conforti From owner-diy_efi Wed Aug 31 21:24:21 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19594; Wed, 31 Aug 94 21:24:21 GMT Received: from grolsch-2.cs.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19589; Wed, 31 Aug 94 17:24:16 -0400 Received: (from ean@localhost) by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA01560 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:24:11 -0700 X400-Received: by mta cs.ubc.ca in /PRMD=/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:24:09 UTC-0700 X400-Received: by /PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:24:09 UTC-0700 Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 14:24:09 UTC-0700 X400-Originator: rodb@cs.ubc.ca X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/;940831142409] Content-Identifier: 1567 Conversion: Prohibited From: Rod Barman To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <"1567*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: Re: Hello .. Mc Fly?? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Ean X.400 to MIME gateway) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Real quite big Jim. -- Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From owner-diy_efi Wed Aug 31 21:46:27 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19786; Wed, 31 Aug 94 21:46:27 GMT Received: from psi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19707; Wed, 31 Aug 94 17:45:09 -0400 Received: from khis.com (charon.khis.com) by psi.com (4.1/2.1-PSI/PSINet) id AA17884; Wed, 31 Aug 94 17:44:46 EDT Received: from alamo by khis.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02407; Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:48:02 CDT Received: from khan.khis.com by alamo (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09944; Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:35:58 CDT From: king@khis.com (Robert King) Message-Id: <9408312135.AA09944@alamo> Subject: Re: Hello .. Mc Fly?? To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 16:39:43 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Jim Conforti" at Aug 31, 94 02:41:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 964 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Have I been dropped .. > > Or is the list just REAL quiet .. Actually, I haven't gotten any traffic lately either. However, I'll be converting my 88 Mustang from Speed Density to Mass Air soon (hopfully this weekend,) so I'll have a full report coming... +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Robert A. King | | | Systems Software Engineer | | | Kodak Health Imaging Systems | "I drank WHAT?!?" -- Socrates | | | | | king@khan.khis.com | | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The opinions expressed here arn't even mine, much less my employer's! | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Wed Aug 31 22:01:33 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19842; Wed, 31 Aug 94 22:01:33 GMT Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19837; Wed, 31 Aug 94 18:01:26 -0400 Received: from twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com by wotan.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #11) id m0qfxZX-000vJuC; Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:51 CDT Received: from bangate.compaq.com by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0qfxX5-000pc4C; Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:49 CDT Message-Id: Received: by bangate.compaq.com with VINES ; Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:29:34 CDT Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:21:01 CDT From: Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com Subject: re: Hello .. Mc Fly?? To: diy_efi Cc: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Jim Conforti Wrote: | Have I been dropped .. | | Or is the list just REAL quiet .. | | Jim Conforti | | It is still here (shhhhh!!) :-) In the interest of making noise, I will ask a question. If I ever get around to working on my project car ('78 monte carlo, 305), I will need an injection manifold with injectors, throttle body, airflow sensor, etc. What would be a good donor car to scavenge this from? I am thinking '82 or later camaro might be a candidate. This is strictly junkyard type parts, no high-dollar edelbrock stuff. It will probably be a while before I can buy anything as I now have a car payment on a *real* car, but it won't hurt to look. How much can I expect to pay for everything from the intake back? (ie injectors, fuel rail and pump, throttle body, etc. no electronics though). Also, if anyone is actually *building* something, this might be a good time to give the group an update on progress, etc. Also, I used to be on the hotrod list (alt.hotrod). I got dropped when it changed sites, and can't get signed back up. Does anyone know if the list is still active, if so can you *please* send me directions on getting back on. --steve From owner-diy_efi Wed Aug 31 22:31:43 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19891; Wed, 31 Aug 94 22:31:43 GMT Received: from mercury.uah.ualberta.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19886; Wed, 31 Aug 94 18:31:40 -0400 Received: from [129.128.109.42] by mercury.uah.ualberta.ca (5.4.2/200.1.1.4) id AA09503; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 16:29:34 -0600 Message-Id: <9408312229.AA09503@mercury.uah.ualberta.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 16:33:39 -0700 To: diy_efi From: agc@mercury.uah.ualberta.ca (Andrei Chichak) Subject: Injection of a siamesed(sp?) head Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Okay here's the problem... a BMC/Leyland/Rover "A" series engine (as used in an Austin Mini or MG Midget) has a siamesed head. That means that each pair of cylinders shares a common intake port. In this case a four cylinder engine has 2 intake ports and 3 exhausts. The BMC "B" series engine is the same (as used in the MGB). Here is the question...with a sequential injection system, should one use two injectors in each port - one per cylinder - or one injector servicing a pair of cylinders firing twice the rate? Opinions? Andrei -- Andrei Chichak | Information Systems agc@mercury.uah.ualberta.ca | University of Alberta Hospitals (403) 492 - 4431 (work) | 8440 112 Street Edmonton, Alberta (403) 492 - 3090 (fax) | CANADA T6G 2B7 From owner-diy_efi Wed Aug 31 23:11:52 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20102; Wed, 31 Aug 94 23:11:52 GMT Received: from newsgw.mentorg.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA20097; Wed, 31 Aug 94 19:11:46 -0400 Received: from wv.mentorg.com by newsgw.mentorg.com (8.6.4/CF5.22R) id TAA21575; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 19:10:45 -0400 Received: from em-wv03.mentorg.com by wv.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.22R) id QAA00165; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 16:11:43 -0700 Received: from nath.MENTORG.COM by em-wv03.mentorg.com (8.6.8.1/CF5.19H) id QAA12698; Wed, 31 Aug 1994 16:11:42 -0700 From: derek_deeter@MENTORG.COM (Derek Deeter) Received: by nath.MENTORG.COM (4.1/CF3.4) id AA18664; Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:11:40 PDT Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 16:11:40 PDT Message-Id: <9408312311.AA18664@nath.MENTORG.COM> To: DIY_EFI Subject: re: Hello .. Mc Fly?? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI The hotrod list info is: Reply-to: hotrod@dsea.com X-gifs-to: met@pine.cse.nau.edu X-gifs-from: ftp.nau.edu X-archives: ece.rutgers.edu X-comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com X-comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com Approved: frank@dsea.com From owner-diy_efi Wed Aug 31 23:37:18 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20163; Wed, 31 Aug 94 23:37:18 GMT Received: from Audrey.levels.unisa.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA20158; Wed, 31 Aug 94 19:37:08 -0400 Received: from pepe.levels.unisa.edu.au by spri.levels.unisa.edu.au with ESMTP id JAA04517; Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:06:45 +0930 Received: from localhost by pepe.levels.unisa.edu.au id JAA00236; Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:04:28 +0930 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:04:28 +0930 From: don@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (Don Gossink) Message-Id: <199408312334.JAA00236@pepe.levels.unisa.edu.au> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Injection of a siamesed(sp?) head Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Andrei, I happen to be one of those rare mini fanatics, I like most mini drivers are always looking for that oddity or something to make the brick go faster. Consequently I have looked at the problem of EFIying it. Firstly Rover does do an EFI already for the A and B series motors! Yet it is a single point injector. ie. it merely has one fuel release point, therfore simply replacing the old S.U. carbie. After many discussions with people all over the place, the best solution would involve six injectors. Two Large ones and four smaller ones, this shouldn't be to bad for a standard cpu to handle seeing most handle up to 8 injectors. Anyway why 6? Ill attempt to Draw how they should be placed Cylinder Head Inlet Manifold \ | / \ | / *\ /* *\ /* # # # - Large Injectors * - smaller injectors. Since this diagram is a bit rough the smaller injectors are lined up as best as possible to with the cylinder they are to supply fuel to. The arrangement should be that the larger ones a the back are used at low rpm so that sufficient swirl is created, and hence more torque. Whilst the smaller ones will take over at the mid rpm level and continue to the endpoint. anyaway I think this answers your question! Goodluck Don From owner-diy_efi Thu Sep 1 02:30:12 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20846; Thu, 1 Sep 94 02:30:12 GMT Received: from localhost.eng.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA20841; Wed, 31 Aug 94 22:30:09 -0400 Message-Id: <9409010230.AA20841@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi Subject: Project update (long) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 22:30:09 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Project update: Ok, a lot has happen since the last I posted. I now have a working 68HC000 single board computer running. For those that are interested, the reset of this post describes the board, the programming environment, things to-do, and lastly the next ``system level'' building block. 1) 68HC000 main board: This board is a 6-by-4 inch (cleared hole ground plane) card that that is in itself a complete embedded controller. The processor is a 68HC000 rated at 16MHz; although I'm currently running it at 12 MHz. The board has complete address and data buffering with all the necessary reset and power-up functions. An external expansion port is included that provides 2Meg of address space for future additions. Two 27C010-120's provide 1/2Meg of EPROM storage for programs and permanent data lookup tables. Two DS1225-150's provide 16K of battery backup SRAM. These chips have internal lithium batteries that have enough capacity to last for more than 10 years. In these chips, ``adaptive'' lookup tables and data can be stored and maintained without the risk of losing the information when power is removed. An NS16550AF and MAX232 provide a serial link to the outside world that has all the modem handshake signals in addition to a few user definable spares that can be used as we see fit. The schematic and board layout were created using ``EE Designer III.'' I will make the files available if anyone is interested. For those that do not have this software, it may be easiest to mail actual drawings (D-size). It takes about 36 hours to wire-wrapping. It would be nice to put this up on the WWW server, but I don't have the time. Others may be interested in something a little more modern like a 683XX or maybe the 68HC16 (I see Coactive is working on a GCC port). 2) The programming environment This really worked out nice and is the reason why I went with this CPU (in addition to cost). I have GCC configured as a cross compiler on ``coulomb'' (an R4K SGI Indigo). I modified the loader script and the make file rules so code generation is invisible to the user. Consider the following example which is a RAM test I used to continuously walk a bit through memory. In the event of failure, the CPU lock in an infinite loop. **************** cut here ************* void Main() { register int i, j; for (;;) for (i=0x200000;i<=0x203fff-0x200; i++) for (j=1; j<=0x80; j <<= 1 ) { *(char *)i = (char)j; if (*(char *)i != (char)j) for(;;); } } **************** cut here ************* By simply typing ``make ram_test'', we have ready to burn data for the EPROM's (in s-record format). **************** cut here ************* S0050000743155 S11804504E5600004E71207C00200000B1FC00203DFF6E1A7073 S1180465010C80000000806E0C1080B010670260FED08060EC44 ....cut cut cut ..... S1060405F80004F4 S9030000FC **************** cut here ************* Most of the EPROM data for this simple program are exception vectors for the 68000 exception table. A disassembly of the actual program is as follows: (a small wrapper program, not shown here, is automaticly included to initializes RAM (.data and .bss section) before calling our program.) **************** cut here ************* 00000048: 4E560000 link.w fp,#0 0000004C: 4E71 nop 0000004E: 207C00200000 movea.l #$200000,a0 00000054: B1FC00203DFF cmpa.l #$203DFF,a0 0000005A: 6E1A bgt *+26 0000005C: 7001 moveq #1,d0 0000005E: 0C8000000080 cmpi.l #$80,d0 00000064: 6E0C bgt *+12 00000066: 1080 move.b d0,(a0) 00000068: B010 cmp.b (a0),d0 0000006A: 6702 beq *+2 0000006C: 60FE bra *-2 0000006E: D080 add.l d0,d0 00000070: 60EC bra *-20 00000072: 5248 addq.w #1,a0 00000074: 60DE bra *-34 00000076: 60D4 bra *-44 00000078: 4E5E unlk fp 0000007A: 4E75 rts **************** cut here ************* This code was complied unoptimized as you might guess. Optimization in this case would not have resulted in the test that was called for since the optimizer assumes the memory to be working and, for this particular test, would not have re-read a value after having written it to memory; however FYI, it cuts the length of this code in half. The optimizer actually does a reasonably good job. Maybe only slightly slower and larger than if written in assembly. It's a must for the EFI project as I see it. In addition to generating EPROM data, I also have a RAM model that lets a program be down-loaded over the serial port from coulomb into the SRAM. Thus, smaller programs can be ran interactively. I've complied glibc, but it really needs a ``mini'' kernel to be useful. I may write one or hack the library not to make kernel calls. I don't know yet.... 3) Things to do I need to enable the interrupts that will service the serial port and the soon to be added watch-dog timer. Other than that, this board is about full. the signal are very clean and the timing requirement are easily meant at 12MHz. After these changes, I'll do some kind of burn-in test for a week or so as a final test. At some-point I will also configure gdb to work over the serial line. 4) Next building block - I need a ``smart'' power supply for use in the car..... - I'm also working on a companion board with 1Meg of DRAM and some other stuff such as DIY_EFI bus support. John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Thu Sep 1 05:34:58 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA21218; Thu, 1 Sep 94 05:34:58 GMT Received: from uahcs2.cs.uah.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA21213; Thu, 1 Sep 94 01:34:52 -0400 Received: (from kking@localhost) by uahcs2.cs.uah.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA22504 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 1 Sep 1994 00:34:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 00:34:59 -0500 From: Ken King Message-Id: <199409010534.AAA22504@uahcs2.cs.uah.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Injection of a siamesed(sp?) head Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI greetings: i have a similar problem w/ the inline 6 cyl i'm planning on doing up in a few months. actually, it's worse, as only cyl's 3&4 fire at 180 degrees apart. 1&3 and 5&6 fire 120/240 degrees apart. some sort of sequential setup is needed, but it can't go over 120 degrees in duration or all the excess duration will end up in the longer duration cyl, leaning out the 120 degree cyl. thoughts have included having a pair of injectors aimed across, squirting thru the intake port at the valve in question, limiting the amount of fuel the other port can rob. the only other way i can see to do this is to back the injectors up 2 or 3 inches and have a partially wet manifold, allowing both sides access to pre-mixed air and fuel. any clues will be gratefully accepted... later, kc