From owner-diy_efi Mon Sep 26 14:11:54 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA18050; Mon, 26 Sep 94 14:11:54 GMT Received: from abacus.gsfc.nasa.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA18044; Mon, 26 Sep 94 10:11:51 -0400 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 10:17:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Dirk Broer To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <940926101730.294@abacus.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: Re: UEGO Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >Does anybody know if Ford's project to develop an EGO with >proportional air/fuel ratio voltage output was ever completed? >It would be nice to have one of those sensors to simplify the >calibration of an efi system. I remeber Jon Lusky mentioned >something like this existed, but it cost hundreds of bucks and >only lasted 100 hours or so. UEGO sensors come up every now and then on the HotRod list. The last I hear they were available but they are very expensive - hundreds of dollars range. However, if all you need it for is tuning - it is my understanding that air/ fuel ratio can me determined from the CO level. One of the rags like Hotrod or Carcraft tested a device that you would calibrate by measuring free air. Then you stick it in the exhaust pipe and it tells you the CO level (ppm I assume) and from there you can determine the approximate air/fuel ratio. With catastrophic converters your answer would be off - at least around stoichiometric. So I suspect a tap befor the cats would be necessary. I don't know if I still have the above issue, nor did I remember who made the device. I suspect there is more than one available. So can you build a cheap one? There are plenty of CO detectors for fire/smoke alarms out there. Maybe one could be used in an automotive enviroment? Dirk From owner-diy_efi Mon Sep 26 22:56:30 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20771; Mon, 26 Sep 94 22:56:30 GMT Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA20766; Mon, 26 Sep 94 18:56:27 -0400 Received: from twisto by wotan.compaq.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #11) id m0qpOxV-000vIjC; Mon, 26 Sep 94 17:55 CDT Received: from heimdall.eng.hou.compaq.com by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0qpOv0-000uGqC; Mon, 26 Sep 94 17:53 CDT Received: by heimdall.eng.hou.compaq.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #8) id m0qpOv0-000bTlC; Mon, 26 Sep 94 17:53 CDT Message-Id: Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 17:53 CDT From: sravet@heimdall.eng.hou.compaq.com (Steve Ravet) To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI hey folks -- There is a list of PCB manufacturers in the FAQ for sci.electronics that will do small runs. I have included one in particular that sounded good, there are many more. John, is there a way we could turn your design into a two layer board? This particular outfit will produce two double sided plated thru hole boards 4x5 for about $80 or so. well worth it, in my opinion. Anyway, I'd like to see your schematics, but i don't have access to any kind of layout software. can you generate a gif or postscript file? --steve ps i'm mailing this from an alternate site 'cause my mailer is down. hope this makes it. oh yeah, i forgot how much i *hate* vi --- included message --- Where can I get a PCB commercially manufactured? V1.02 This is a list of services that will produce PCBs for you from artwork or software files. I will not say which I have used so as not to bias this list :-) Please send any additions, corrections, testimonials, experiences to me at filip@alpha.med.pitt.edu #### A.P. Circuits Ltd. #14-3650 19th Street NE., Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2E 6V2. Tel: 1-403-250-3406 BBS: 1-403-291-9342 (9600 baud 8,N,1) ------------------- (From Chris Guli) I'm moderately experienced with home fabrication of PCBs, but the more I look at it, the more attractive a PCB house looks. I've come across a Canadian vendor [this one] that will produce two 4x5" board, DS/PTH, for about $79 total. The per board price goes down as total area increases. You have to consider your time, so out-sourcing may be worth it. (from their ad in Electronics Now) * Plated thru hole PCB's prototype quantities * Two board or $25 minimum * Fast, economical. * For complete information call or write us (From Alan Ruff) They have a file called NEWUSER.ZIP on thier BBS that customers can get and work out their own quote. This is for a "proto1" fab with no mask or legend. They have the lowest price I've found so far. (From Darin Latimer) I just got my first double sided plated thru board back from AP CIRCUITS LTD and it looks great! I sent the Gerber files, N/C drill file and a Visa # by modem Monday noon and the boards (you have to order in multiples of 2) were here Friday morning. The pair of 1/16"FR4, 1oz copper, 4"x5", ~350 hole boards cost $84 CANADIAN plus shipping (US$ ~ 1.2CAN$, and no duty because of free trade agreement). This is their Proto 1 price schedule which doesn't have solder or componment masks, silkscreen etc., although you can request them. To qualify for Proto 1 prices the minimum order is a total 12 square inches of one design and must average less than 24 holes per square inch. Their design rules are .008" lands and .008" spacing. Their Proto 2 service is more expensive but allows choice of laminate, solder and component masks, odd board shapes, For more information download NEWUSER.ZIP from their BBS at 403 291 9342 9600,8,N,1, or mail at AP Circuits Ltd, #14-3650 - 19th Street NE., Calgary, Alberta, Canada, T2E 6V2. (From Mike Loving) Well today I got my PC boards from AP circuits. The boards look good though I have yet to test them. One MAJOR complaint, but it does not relate to the boards and I have yet to take it up with AP circuits. I requested ground shipping (I was not in a hurry and did not wanna pay for express, super-duper, extras buckos, air shipping), they sent next day air and billed next day air. $25 canadian for next day air, seems like UPS ground woulda been about 5 bux and gotten here next week. Just a caveat for those who are contemplating buying some boards. The boards look great though. From owner-diy_efi Tue Sep 27 06:08:52 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA21613; Tue, 27 Sep 94 06:08:52 GMT Received: from smtp.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA21608; Tue, 27 Sep 94 02:08:49 -0400 Received: from mail.utexas.edu (mail.utexas.edu [128.83.126.1]) by smtp.utexas.edu (8.6.7/8.6.6) with ESMTP id BAA04010 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 01:08:19 -0500 From: BigBrother@mail.utexas.edu Received: from [128.83.128.81] (slip-10-1.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.128.81]) by mail.utexas.edu (8.6.7/8.6.6) with SMTP id BAA00537 for ; Tue, 27 Sep 1994 01:08:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199409270608.BAA00537@mail.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 01:08:15 -0600 To: DIY_EFI Subject: 2 Layer PCB boards. Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I hear this all of the time: when refering to a 2 layer board, does that mean front and back, or actually 2 layers (boards) such that there is a front, back, and "middle" sandwiched between? BTW, that is great that place in Canada makes those PCB boards. I'm sick of home fab IT SUCKS. I've spent well over $80 on the different techniques of home fab, and even when the boards do come out right, it still takes you hours, and hours to do it. Jeff From owner-diy_efi Tue Sep 27 12:54:35 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA22215; Tue, 27 Sep 94 12:54:35 GMT Received: from eigen.ee.ualberta.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA22210; Tue, 27 Sep 94 08:54:32 -0400 Message-Id: <9409271254.AA22210@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by eigen.ee.ualberta.ca (1.37.109.4/15.6) id AA04897; Tue, 27 Sep 94 06:54:29 -0600 From: Dale Ulan Subject: Re: 2 Layer PCB boards. To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 27 Sep 94 6:54:27 MDT In-Reply-To: <199409270608.BAA00537@mail.utexas.edu>; from "BigBrother@mail.utexas.edu" at Sep 27, 94 1:08 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > I hear this all of the time: when refering to a 2 layer board, does > that mean front and back, or actually 2 layers (boards) such that there > is a front, back, and "middle" sandwiched between? 2-layer refers to a double-sided board (2 copper layers). 3 (and higher) layer refers to boards with sandwiched copper layers. 4 layer boards are the 'standard' multilayer board for most multilayer applications: top and bottom for signal, two mid layers for power and ground. I've seen boards with up to 8 layers in them. > BTW, that is great that place in Canada makes those PCB boards. I'm sick > of home fab IT SUCKS. I've spent well over $80 on the different techniques > of home fab, and even when the boards do come out right, it still takes you > hours, and hours to do it. Which company are you referring to? There are at least three decent PC board makers up here. I know there's one in Vancouver, another somewhere in eastern Canada, and the one I usually use in in Calgary. -Dale From owner-diy_efi Tue Sep 27 13:21:12 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA22492; Tue, 27 Sep 94 13:21:12 GMT Received: from abacus.gsfc.nasa.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA22487; Tue, 27 Sep 94 09:21:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 9:26:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Dirk Broer To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <940927092650.4d0@abacus.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: RE PCB boards Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >I hear this all of the time: when refering to a 2 layer board, does >that mean front and back, or actually 2 layers (boards) such that there >is a front, back, and "middle" sandwiched between? Two layer is normal front and back. Beyond that you go to "multi-layer" in which the circuit boards are made up of multiple 2-layer sections bonded together. If you ca get away with 2 layers it is much easier - and cheaper. Multilayer ads another level of complexity, limits what changes you can do to the board afterwards, and introduces many more areas for mistakes. Typically for multilayer boards we add "Coupons" to the layout. These are little circuits that are made at the same time as the main circuit board and can later be destructively tested to insure that the main circuit board was done correctly. Typically the two outermost levels become ground planes for EMI shielding. Your $100 circuit board would quickly become a $600 one... Not to mention to be practicle you would probably need software with auto-routing capability. >BTW, that is great that place in Canada makes those PCB boards. I'm sick >of home fab IT SUCKS. I've spent well over $80 on the different techniques >of home fab, and even when the boards do come out right, it still takes you >hours, and hours to do it. At NASA one of the branches has a milling machine (C&C ? ) hooked to a CAD system. The mill cuts away at the copper clad board - the same mill also drills the holes. No chemical etching!! Dirk From owner-diy_efi Tue Sep 27 17:03:50 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA27406; Tue, 27 Sep 94 17:03:50 GMT Received: from tomcat.al.noaa.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA27401; Tue, 27 Sep 94 13:03:46 -0400 Received: from aztec.al.noaa.gov by tomcat.al.noaa.gov with SMTP id AA23860 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 27 Sep 1994 11:10:00 -0600 Message-Id: <199409271710.AA23860@tomcat.al.noaa.gov> Date: 27 Sep 1994 11:03:24 -0700 From: "Ciciora Steve" Subject: FW: To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Someone writes... ________________________________________________________ hey folks -- There is a list of PCB manufacturers in the FAQ for sci.electronics that will do small runs. I have included one in particular that sounded good, there are many more. John, is there a way we could turn your design into a two layer board? This particular outfit will produce two double sided plated thru hole boards 4x5 for about $80 or so. well worth it, in my opinion. Anyway, I'd like to see your schematics, but i don't have access to any kind of layout software. can you generate a gif or postscript file? --steve I've made the offer privatly, and now I'll make it publically, but I'll probably regret it... I'd be willing to take a stab at laying out the 68000 board. I have PCAD w/ a good autorouter. While I don't much care for PCAD, I think I'm getting good at it. All I need is the final version of the sch. It dosn't have to be caded up; I an going to have to re-do it in PCAD anyway. I can't guess how much it will cost or how big the board will be, heck I don't even know how many chips there are! If I get a sch., I will have a better idea. Anyone else interested? (After all the CPU arguments, isn't it funny which one looks like we might end up using? The person who does the most work sets the standard!) - Steven Ciciora sciciora@al.noaa.gov From owner-diy_efi Wed Sep 28 19:57:52 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA05408; Wed, 28 Sep 94 19:57:52 GMT Received: from jagger.Berkeley.EDU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA05403; Wed, 28 Sep 94 15:57:43 -0400 Received: by jagger.Berkeley.EDU (5.57/1.28) id AA27021; Wed, 28 Sep 94 12:57:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 12:57:37 -0700 From: dwfaris@jagger.Berkeley.EDU (Dave Faris) Message-Id: <9409281957.AA27021@jagger.Berkeley.EDU> To: DIY_EFI Subject: New Subscriber Intro Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi DIY-EFI people, I'm newly subscribed, so I thought I'd make a quick introduction. My name (obviously) is Dave Faris (occassionally, I sign myself Big Wave Dave....a not so accurate throw-back to my high-school days). I'm doing research towards my PhD at University Of California Berkeley. I rarely get to play around with my own cars (I have a 1986 Jeep CJ7, and a 1972 Chevy Impala 400), but this is mostly a result of time and money. I am, however, actively involved in building and working engines. I formerly worked at NISMO - Japan, doing both simulations (!?!?!) and experiments regarding all kinds of fuel injection and combustion chamber/port systems. I've been back in the US now for a while (thank god), and I'm currently building a single cylinder, high speed research engine.....it's called a CFR Engine, it's kindof a standard in the old fuel ratings industry, but it was basically a beast (very big....to withstand big time detonation). We've lightened it up a bit, and hope to do something called "CYCLE RESOLVED CONTROLS" This means making fast measurements, and doing fuel injection/ignition and possibly even swirl control EVERY CYCLE. Our main goal is to implement In-Cylinder-Pressure-Measurement on this cycle resolved basis, and use this signal to control injection/spark/maybe even port swirl or port activation/deactivation. Right now, I'm spending most of my time with little sub-systems..... you know, water pumps, heat exchanger, etc.... Soon, I will get to ignition and injection systems, at which point you all may be able to point me in the right directions. Until then, I will monitor newsletter traffic and suck it all up. Thanks for your time. Cheers Dave From owner-diy_efi Fri Sep 30 03:36:55 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12409; Fri, 30 Sep 94 03:36:55 GMT Received: from localhost.eng.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA12403; Thu, 29 Sep 94 23:36:51 -0400 Message-Id: <9409300336.AA12403@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: MC68HC000 board and rtems kernel Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 23:36:50 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI -------- For those interested in the mc68hc000 board, I will try to forward several gif files to our www/ftp(?) site (I didn't see a place to drop incoming files for ftp. Is ftp.cpsc.ucalgary.ca available for this?) early next week. These files shall include the schematic and at least one picture of the board. --- PCB-- I'm not optimistic about a 2-layer board. My guess would be either a 4- or 6-layer board. Additionally, I feel it's too early to commit the design to a PCB until we actually have a EFI system running (IMHO). ___ Kernels-- RTEMS okay, here's the latest kernel I'm considering for the 68hc000 board. (and it comes with libc too!) ******************* old posting to crossgcc *************** Second, on the issue of a real-time executive. Recently, my research group has made a robust multiprocessor executive (RTEMS) available under terms similar to those of the NetBSD source. There is an Ada and C implementation of RTEMS. The Ada is a full implementation of the same algorithms and design. It is NOT a binding to the C. This executive is based on the same mid-1980's specifications that pSOS+ and VMEexec were. It runs on the 68k, i386 protected mode, and i960ca. It is currently being ported to the PA-RISC. It is available by anonymous ftp from lancelot.gcs.redstone.army.mil. The WWW home page is (if I remember correctly) http://lancelot.gcs.redstone.army.mil/rg4/rtems.html. RTEMS has a full test suite which provides very high test coverage (99%+) in both single and multiprocessor environments. There is timing test suite which provides the benchmarks we publish. The execution times are comparable to commercial executives. The longest period interrupts are disabled is approximately 12.5 us on a 20Mhz m68020. There is very little assembly language in RTEMS (interrupt dispatching and context switch). In fact, there are only 3 header files, one asm file, and one C file per CPU in the executive. None of these files is usually > 300 lines of code. Two of the 3 .h files are tiny. One defines the basic CPU dependent types and the other contains a CPU dependent version string. A set of flyers with basic features, timing information, and licensing is available via anonymous ftp from lancelot.gcs.redstone.army.mil in /pub/rtems/releases/3.1.0/c/rtems/releases/3.1.0/c/individual_manuals/all_f lyers.tgz. The next release of RTEMS should be available in the next couple of months and includes a few minor bug fixes and a reorganization of the source and makefiles to more closely follow that of other GNU/BSD distributions. *************************************************** For anyone interested, I have placed the flyers on the mail server here. Send 'help' to 'Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu' for information on how to retrieve them. This package looks pretty good and is *well* documented. It uses between 11-27 kbytes depending on the configuration (according to the documentation). John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Oct 3 17:30:40 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01435; Mon, 3 Oct 94 17:30:40 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA01430; Mon, 3 Oct 94 13:30:34 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA20032; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 12:30:31 -0500 Received: by ohura.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29000; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 12:30:29 -0500 Message-Id: <9410031730.AA29000@ohura.cca.rockwell.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Processor selection for datalogger Date: Mon, 03 Oct 94 12:30:28 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hiy'all I've decided to build a datalogging device to be used on a '91 GMC Syclone with a P4 ECM. Rather than spend gobs of time reverse-engineering the ALDL stream (It doesn't really tell me all I want to know anyway), I'm planning on building a small A/D device that would send a serial output to a laptop PC. I've looked at the 68HC11 to handle the A/D and counter functions that I'll need, but I don't think it has enough resolution for my application. I'm going to use a combination of the stock and aftermarket sensors, so my voltage ranges will be kinda all over the place. The thing I really liked about the '11 was the readily available tools, and it's cheap too. Any recommendations? What I'm really looking for is a hi-res 68HC11. A few more counter inputs would be nice too. Thanks Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com Syclone/Typhoon mailing list. Feel the power of the wind.