From owner-diy_efi Mon Oct 3 18:16:35 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01544; Mon, 3 Oct 94 18:16:35 GMT Received: from maxwell.ee.washington.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA01539; Mon, 3 Oct 94 14:16:31 -0400 Received: by maxwell.ee.washington.edu (1.37.109.4/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA03618; Mon, 3 Oct 94 11:16:26 -0700 From: Mike Gruber Message-Id: <9410031816.AA03618@maxwell.ee.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Processor selection for datalogger To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 11:16:25 PDT In-Reply-To: <9410031730.AA29000@ohura.cca.rockwell.com>; from "sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com" at Oct 03, 94 12:30 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Dig: If you have expertise in electronics, why not just use some op amp circuits to move the sensor output voltages into the range 0-5 volts? Then your 68HC11 could deal with all of the sensor outputs with 256 levels possible for each sensor, since each sensor would range over all of the same range. That way you get to use the 6811, like you want... Mike Gruber From owner-diy_efi Mon Oct 3 20:41:08 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01824; Mon, 3 Oct 94 20:41:08 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA01819; Mon, 3 Oct 94 16:40:58 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22753; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:40:51 -0500 Received: by ohura.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29181; Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:40:48 -0500 Message-Id: <9410032040.AA29181@ohura.cca.rockwell.com> To: DIY_EFI Cc: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com Subject: Re: Processor selection for datalogger In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Oct 94 11:16:25 PDT." <9410031816.AA03618@maxwell.ee.washington.edu> Date: Mon, 03 Oct 94 15:40:48 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >If you have expertise in electronics, why not just >use some op amp circuits to move the sensor output >voltages into the range 0-5 volts? I hate to sound anal, but I want better than .02 resolution. I can get by with it I guess, but I'd like to have ~10 bit or so. I was also considering using a switchable reference to use for some of the sensors that operate in a narrower range. I also would like more than one "pulse accumulator". I plan on doing RPM and timing measurements using the stock EST and REF signals, along with an accumulation of the DRAC/VSS counts. I could implement these with external counters, but I wanted to keep my parts count as low as possible. The processor won't need to do any big number crunching, just basically poll the sensors and spit the results to the PC. The PC software can do all the data manipulation. Is the 6816 code compatible? Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com Syclone/Typhoon mailing list Have turbo, will travel. From owner-diy_efi Wed Oct 5 00:18:18 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA05983; Wed, 5 Oct 94 00:18:18 GMT Received: from tomcat.al.noaa.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA05978; Tue, 4 Oct 94 20:18:15 -0400 Received: from aztec.al.noaa.gov by tomcat.al.noaa.gov with SMTP id AA02649 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 4 Oct 1994 18:24:31 -0600 Message-Id: <199410050024.AA02649@tomcat.al.noaa.gov> Date: 4 Oct 1994 18:18:19 -0700 From: "Ciciora Steve" Subject: FW: Processor selection for datalogger To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI _______________________________________________________________________________ To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com From: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu on Mon, Oct 3, 1994 14:55 Subject: Re: Processor selection for datalogger >If you have expertise in electronics, why not just >use some op amp circuits to move the sensor output >voltages into the range 0-5 volts? I hate to sound anal, but I want better than .02 resolution. I can get by with it I guess, but I'd like to have ~10 bit or so. I was also considering using a switchable reference to use for some of the sensors that operate in a narrower range. ____ What I do is hook a ($20) LT1290 8 ch, 12 bit A/D converter to the SPI. 4 wires (a data clock and an analog converter clock, data in and data out). A few lines of code and away you go! ____ I also would like more than one "pulse accumulator". I plan on doing RPM and timing measurements using the stock EST and REF signals, along with an accumulation of the DRAC/VSS counts. I could implement these with external counters, but I wanted to keep my parts count as low as possible. ____ Can you use the input capture registers? ____ The processor won't need to do any big number crunching, just basically poll the sensors and spit the results to the PC. The PC software can do all the data manipulation. Is the 6816 code compatible? ____ While I don't have (much) direct experience, it is not 100 percent code compatible. Some instructions don't translate directly. But it is similar to the 6811, and if you are familiar w/ it, learning the 6816 shouldn't be too tough. You need different software tools, though ____ Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com Syclone/Typhoon mailing list Have turbo, will travel. - Steven Ciciora (sorry I can't indent 'included' text) From owner-diy_efi Wed Oct 5 03:58:17 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA06684; Wed, 5 Oct 94 03:58:17 GMT Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA06679; Tue, 4 Oct 94 23:58:14 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by amlibs.com with smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu.id.m0qsNWP-0007WWC;Tue (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #5), 4.Oct.94.22:00.MDT Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA127740; Tue, 4 Oct 1994 21:39:27 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 21:37:33 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: GM P5 ECU To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there anyone out there with *any* info on this PCM? The 1994 Camaro uses this .. with NO EPROM! Has flash on-board .. Uses dual processors (prob 68xx16) Hints? Jim Conforti 1-800-288-8020 (x5471) From owner-diy_efi Wed Oct 5 13:27:27 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07396; Wed, 5 Oct 94 13:27:27 GMT Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA07391; Wed, 5 Oct 94 09:27:25 -0400 Received: by gold.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 5 Oct 94 08:26:05 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 08:26:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Ryan A Erickson Subject: GM computers To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Does anyone know of some sources or have some info on GM computers. My intentions are to change the intake manifold and cam on a GM 3.1 L V6, turbocharge it and throw it in the back of a cheap '84 Fiero. I would also like to be able to adjust as much as possible from the cabin of the car (A/F, spark timing, boost, etc?) Now if one had a lot of money you could buy stuff that would do this, but that takes all the fun out of a do-it-yourself project. What I'd like to know is about the different GM ECM's, their inputs, their EPROM's, the location of the tables on those EPROM's;basically, I'd like to know everything there is to know about GM ECM's. Thank you, Ryan From owner-diy_efi Wed Oct 5 16:39:50 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA08833; Wed, 5 Oct 94 16:39:50 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA08828; Wed, 5 Oct 94 12:39:46 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10710; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:39:43 -0500 Received: by ohura.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01968; Wed, 5 Oct 1994 11:39:40 -0500 Message-Id: <9410051639.AA01968@ohura.cca.rockwell.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: FW: Processor selection for datalogger In-Reply-To: Your message of "04 Oct 94 18:18:19 PDT." <199410050024.AA02649@tomcat.al.noaa.gov> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 11:39:39 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >What I do is hook a ($20) LT1290 8 ch, 12 bit A/D converter to the SPI. 4 >wires (a data clock and an analog converter clock, data in and data out). A >few lines of code and away you go! I've decided to stick with the HC11's A/D for the prototype version- I can live with the resolution limitation initially. Eventually, I will want better resolution, and this looks like a fairly good method. >Can you use the input capture registers? Yes. They'll work better in fact. I didn't know they had such a thing on-board. I've spent waaay too much time in segment:offset land. ;) Actually, I could use one more of these, but I think I can work around it >While I don't have (much) direct experience, it is not 100 percent code >compatible. >You need different software tools, though This was a major concern for me- low development cost/effort. I'm not only cheap, I'm lazy too. :) My only remaining concern is performance. I'll be monitoring: REF/EST (Timing) #1 Injector PW VSS/DRAC (Vehicle speed) Coolant temp Manifold Air Temp 0xy Sensor Barometer/MAP Auxillary Boost TPS voltage (position) Fuel pressure All I'll need to do is chunk these values out the SCI. What kind of update rate will I be able to see on the PC side? (Guesses welcomed) Sorry if these are tired-old questions. I'm new to the WWOM. (Wide World Of Motorola) :) Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com Syclone/Typhoon mailing list. It'll blow you away. From owner-diy_efi Thu Oct 6 00:29:54 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA10292; Thu, 6 Oct 94 00:29:54 GMT Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA10287; Wed, 5 Oct 94 20:29:51 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #21) id m0qsgin-000CuQC; Wed, 5 Oct 94 19:30 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: GM computers To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 19:30:09 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Ryan A Erickson" at Oct 5, 94 08:26:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1318 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Ryan A Erickson writes: > > > Does anyone know of some sources or have some info on GM computers. > My intentions are to change the intake manifold and cam on a GM 3.1 L V6, > turbocharge it and throw it in the back of a cheap '84 Fiero. I would > also like to be able to adjust as much as possible from the cabin of the > car (A/F, spark timing, boost, etc?) Now if one had a lot of money you > could buy stuff that would do this, but that takes all the fun out of a > do-it-yourself project. What I'd like to know is about the different GM > ECM's, their inputs, their EPROM's, the location of the tables on those > EPROM's;basically, I'd like to know everything there is to know about GM > ECM's. Info on GM proms is consider proprietary by GM and youre going to have a really hard time find anyone willing to share. By the questions you ask it also seems that you've never even bothered to look at any factory service/emissions manuals for a fuel injected GM vehicle. I think you'd be much better off with an aftermarket ECM, anyway. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/erc/lusky.html (615) 455-9915 ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi Thu Oct 6 05:13:35 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA10832; Thu, 6 Oct 94 05:13:35 GMT Received: from eigen.ee.ualberta.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA10827; Thu, 6 Oct 94 01:13:29 -0400 Message-Id: <9410060513.AA10827@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by eigen.ee.ualberta.ca (1.37.109.4/15.6) id AA28788; Wed, 5 Oct 94 23:13:24 -0600 From: Dale Ulan Subject: Re: GM computers To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 23:13:22 MDT In-Reply-To: ; from "Ryan A Erickson" at Oct 5, 94 8:26 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > > Does anyone know of some sources or have some info on GM computers. > My intentions are to change the intake manifold and cam on a GM 3.1 L V6, > turbocharge it and throw it in the back of a cheap '84 Fiero. I would > also like to be able to adjust as much as possible from the cabin of the > car (A/F, spark timing, boost, etc?) Now if one had a lot of money you > could buy stuff that would do this, but that takes all the fun out of a > do-it-yourself project. What I'd like to know is about the different GM > ECM's, their inputs, their EPROM's, the location of the tables on those > EPROM's;basically, I'd like to know everything there is to know about GM > ECM's. You can easily identify the ECM type by the type of EPROM carrier used. The EPROM will be hidden under a small 'sub-lid' of the ECM, and in some kind of carrier. A C3 PROM will be in a small black plastic chip carrier made by RN. A P4 PROM will be in a large long chip carrier with a dual-row header plug on the bottom. The new ECM (P5?) uses on-board FLASH memory. A C3 ECM is based on the Motorola 6801 processor. Different versions of the C3 have different I/O on them, depending on the application. They also have different software in there, too. For example, the 1988 to 1991 GMC pickups have the same ECM for both the 305 and 350 engines, however, they have different PROMs. This ECM is probably not interchangable with one off of a 1986 Firebird, even though they are both C3 ECM's. They have different masked ROM, and different address decoding for the EPROM. They usually have the GM timer chip set, which does spark and injector timing. The P4 ECM is based on the Motorola 68HC11 processor. There are also many variations on this basic ECM type. Same applies as above... except that all of the software is contained in the 32k EPROM used in these ones... there is no on-board masked ROM in most P4 applications that I'm aware of. For both of these old ECMs, you'll have to figure out the mapping on your own. I've done it for one firmware version only, and it's a lot of work. Of course, the OEM algorithms are far superior to any aftermarket code, but calibrating it can be a bear mostly because of a lack of documentation. The tables are generally arranged with options and checksums first, then spark advance basic tables, followed by a bunch of fuelling tables, which include the large 'volumetric efficiency' tables, and finishing off with diagnostic and idle speed limits. The new processor is probably based on the Motorola 68F333 processor, which is *very* difficult to deal with for most of us... at least for a couple of months. I'd like to get my hands on one of the new beasts.... :-) -Dale From owner-diy_efi Thu Oct 6 12:11:09 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11221; Thu, 6 Oct 94 12:11:09 GMT Received: from linus.mitre.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA11216; Thu, 6 Oct 94 08:11:06 -0400 Received: from vlsi (vlsi.mitre.org [129.83.12.2]) by linus.mitre.org (8.6.7/RCF-6S) with SMTP id IAA27494 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 1994 08:11:02 -0400 Received: from jackson.mitre.org by vlsi (5.61/MITRE-SS2) id AA09630; Thu, 6 Oct 94 08:11:00 -0400 Received: by jackson.mitre.org (5.61/RCF-4C) id AA02522; Thu, 6 Oct 94 08:11:01 -0400 Message-Id: <9410061211.AA02522@jackson.mitre.org> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: FW: Processor selection for datalogger In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 05 Oct 94 11:39:39 CDT." <9410051639.AA01968@ohura.cca.rockwell.com> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 08:11:00 -0400 From: "Roberto L. Landrau" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hello everyone. I am new to this list. Please forgive me if I am asking a FAQ (I didn't see indications of it on previous articles). I am not an FI expert trying to build my own controller from scratch, yet, but I am trying to squeeze a few more horses out of my car right now. I would like to build a data logger to monitor a few engine parameters. I was wondering if someone on the list can save me some time and ``trial and error'' iterations. See below. >>What I do is hook a ($20) LT1290 8 ch, 12 bit A/D converter to the >>SPI. 4 wires (a data clock and an analog converter clock, data in >>and data out). A few lines of code and away you go! >I've decided to stick with the HC11's A/D for the prototype version- >I can live with the resolution limitation initially. Eventually, I >will want better resolution, and this looks like a fairly good >method. >My only remaining concern is performance. I'll be monitoring: >REF/EST (Timing), #1 Injector PW, VSS/DRAC (Vehicle speed), Coolant >temp, Manifold Air Temp, 0xy Sensor, Barometer/MAP, Auxillary Boost, >TPS voltage (position), Fuel pressure Does anyone have a feel for what the injector PW signal looks like (timing)? I suspect it is a pulse between 1-10msec wide at idle. The technical service manual for my car describes the sequence and the crank angle at which the injection takes place, but it doesn't tell you how wide the pulses are. My specific question is: how wide is the injector pulse signal? How often do I need to sample to get a reasonable reading (i.e. is it 5msec +/- 0.000001msec, needing a 1e6 counter, or is it 1-100msec, etc.)? I realize this varies from car to car, but I am only looking for an ``order of magnitude'' starting point. Thanks. -------- Roberto L. Landrau landrau@mitre.org The MITRE Corporation rll@linus.mitre.org Bedford, MA 01730 rll@linus.UUCP From owner-diy_efi Thu Oct 6 16:27:51 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12686; Thu, 6 Oct 94 16:27:51 GMT Received: from smtp.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA12681; Thu, 6 Oct 94 12:27:31 -0400 Received: from mail.utexas.edu (mail.utexas.edu [128.83.126.1]) by smtp.utexas.edu (8.6.7/8.6.6) with ESMTP id LAA21887 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:26:37 -0500 From: BigBrother@mail.utexas.edu Received: from [128.83.111.151] (slip-20-7.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.111.151]) by mail.utexas.edu (8.6.7/8.6.6) with SMTP id LAA06536 for ; Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:26:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199410061626.LAA06536@mail.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:26:41 -0600 To: DIY_EFI Subject: P4 GM ECM using 68HC11 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI What cars was the P4 used in? Is it in all the TPI camaros/firebirds? Thats the only GM ECM I've seen using a 27256. It would be great to tear one of those down and figure it out. Is the OEM code on ROM on the chip? I know you can get 68hc11 mask programmed at motorolla, but considering there is an external 32k EPROM maybee they don't use that. Either way, I'm definately headed to the junkyard this weekend to get one. Thanks, Jeff