From owner-diy_efi Fri Oct 21 16:56:53 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA04122; Fri, 21 Oct 94 16:56:53 GMT Received: from uu.psi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA04117; Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:56:46 -0400 Received: from osi.UUCP by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA01307 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:43:17 -0400 Received: from cerberus.osi.com by osi.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21962; Fri, 21 Oct 94 09:33:02 PDT Received: by cerberus.osi.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA00553; Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:29:29 +0800 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:29:29 +0800 From: mws1@osi.osi.COM (Matt Silveira x257) Message-Id: <9410211629.AA00553@cerberus.osi.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Water Injection? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 393 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Dear Gregory: I am very interested in what you're trying to do with H2O injection. I am working on one, too! My system is for the EFI / EEC system on a Ford Ranger- 1993 model with a 99X 4.0 L engine. I am attempting to reduce severe ping when driving aggressively or passing (mainly WOT conditions.) Any response or reply would be *GREATLY* appreciated! Sincerely, Matt Silveira From owner-diy_efi Mon Oct 24 19:25:58 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA27294; Mon, 24 Oct 94 19:25:58 GMT Received: from localhost.eng.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA27289; Mon, 24 Oct 94 15:25:56 -0400 Message-Id: <9410241925.AA27289@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi Subject: mailing list for 68hc11 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 94 15:25:55 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI -------- FYI, I see there is a mailing list for the 68hc11. Those of you considering this CPU may want to subscribe. (I haven't tried it myself, so this is not an endorsement... ) ======== cut here ======== If you'd like to subscribe, send the following message to listserv@bobcat.etsu.edu note address =====> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ subscribe mc68hc11 John Doe If you'd like to unsubscribe, send the following message to the address above... unsub mc68hc11 ======== cut here ======== John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Oct 24 22:16:13 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29641; Mon, 24 Oct 94 22:16:13 GMT Received: from gw1.att.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29636; Mon, 24 Oct 94 18:16:11 -0400 Received: from uscbu.ih.att.com by ig1.att.att.com id AA22029; Mon, 24 Oct 94 16:46:59 EDT Received: by uscbu.ih.att.com (4.1/EMS-1.0.2 main.cf 1.37 10/5/93 (SMI-4.1/SVR4)) id AA04507; Mon, 24 Oct 94 15:47:40 CDT From: Bohdan.L.Bodnar@att.com Received: from usgp1.ih.att.com by uscbu.ih.att.com (4.1/EMS-1.0.2 main.cf 1.37 10/5/93 (SMI-4.1/SVR4)) id AA04494; Mon, 24 Oct 94 15:47:37 CDT Received: by usgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA16285; Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:49:36 +0600 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 15:49:36 +0600 Message-Id: <9410242049.AA16285@usgp1.ih.att.com> Original-From: bohdan@uscbu.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar) To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Water Injection? Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI If one is patient, water injection can be used to decarbonize cylinders. The pertinent reaction is something like: C + H2O -> CO + H2. Both are then burned in the oxidation section of the catalytic converter. I tried this once, with limited success. I also also totally coked an O2 sensor this way! Although I replaced the sensor, I was told that it probably would be as good as new if I had driven the car on a highway for a few hundred miles (no problem in my case -- LONG highway commute each day). The procedure I used (which, I was told, was far too conservative and slow) was to run the engine (2.3 liters carbureted in 1986 Mustang) around 1500 RPM and, using a squirt bottle, gently squirt about one quart of tap water into the carburetor. I suppose if I had more time on my hands, I'd get around to doing this again on the Mustang. As it is, I'm almost as well off burning premium fuel and ensuring my EGR system is fully operational. Regards, Bohdan Bodnar From owner-diy_efi Tue Oct 25 08:29:41 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA14508; Tue, 25 Oct 94 08:29:41 GMT Received: from aztec.co.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA14503; Tue, 25 Oct 94 04:29:34 -0400 Received: by aztec.co.za (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0qzhFf-000Ke6C; Tue, 25 Oct 94 10:29 EET Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 10:29:03 +0200 (SAT) From: Wouter de Waal Subject: New members To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <9410241925.AA27289@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Thanks to John Gwynne, there are now two new members on this list, myself (Wouter) and Bill. We would both like to know what's been happening, so if there's a way of getting "back issues", please tell. Otherwise, would some kind soul please give us a quick summary? PS I'm interested in using a 68000 to control the FI of a VW type IV. Bill seems to like the HC11 more :-) Wouter de Waal (wrm@aztec.co.za) From owner-diy_efi Wed Oct 26 14:24:35 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA27673; Wed, 26 Oct 94 14:24:35 GMT Received: from aztec.co.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA27668; Wed, 26 Oct 94 10:24:26 -0400 Received: by aztec.co.za (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0r09GZ-000KdzC; Wed, 26 Oct 94 16:23 EET Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 16:23:51 +0200 (SAT) From: Wouter de Waal Subject: Various comments To: efi list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi again By now everybody must know that I am +- the latest member of this list. I grabbed the archive file from the majordomo and looked it through. Seems as if everybody gives a description of who / what they are, so here goes: I graduated about two years ago with a Masters in Electronical Engineering, subjects Digital Signal Processing, Computers & Telecommunications. While at university I built a 68000 computer. Specs as follows: 3 x Eurocards on proprietary DIN41612 A/C bus Card 1: 68000, Interrupt logic, clock, buffers Card 2: 64K Ram, 192K Rom, Rom vectors to $000000 for reset, then Ram gets mapped there to enable interrupt vector changing. Card 3: 2 x UARTS, Parallel port, Timer. All cards are _single_ sided, with parallel jumpers on component side. (No Thru-hole plating was available at my budget, namely 0) Development cycle consisted of: 1. Write code (assembler) 2. Hand assemble to hex 3. Type hex into debug on PC 4. Blow Eproms 5. Go home, stick Eproms in and single step till first error (Oh yes, single stepping is just a flip-flop controlling /DTACK, set by /AS and reset by a pushbutton) 6. Goto 1 Using this I got a pretty nice monitor kernel working. (Please all stand in line and shout "Masochist") At the start of this year I got Internet access. Great. Since then I've got the Dr. Dobbs tiny basic working, after getting quite a good assembler from bode. The latest is that I've actually got the Gnu compiler to run under LynxOS, which happens to be a real time Unix. Pretty expensive for a hobbyist though, but we're the local resellers. Quite a good Unix. But I'll hopefully be getting Linux in a couple of weeks time. So John, please let me know what to do to get gcc running and emitting 68000 code that I can use for a simple embedded system. And what do I use for libraries? Anyway, getting back to EFI. I've just rebuilt a VW Type IV engine, which will be going into my Puma soon. (A Puma is a glassfibre body sitting on a bug chassis, that was produced locally and in Brazil. Probably still is being produced in Brazil) This engine uses D-Jetronic, and being a tinkerer as well as the abovementioned masochist, I would like to play with the system. For starters I'll look at the inputs to the EFI box, and the outputs, and get the map. Later I can start the specialised stuff, like using better sensors. Even after reading the archives, I can't figure out what the consensus is on hot-wire mass sensors versus manifold vacuum sensing. Vacuum seems to be cheaper and easier from a hardware point of view, but Bosch sez that it's less accurate. Help! Some comments on stuff I got out of the archives, if anybody is interested in some semi-fresh input: From John, May 6th: ... >- At some point I believe we'll have to vote on design issues. I would like >to find a volunteer that would organize the necessary software for this. Some >questions I would also liked answered are (and *please* don't just start a >discussion on this now--think about it): > - How many *will* actually build "something". > - How much are you willing to spend? > - How will those who can't build hardware, get hardware to help > on software? If you wish to become the "official" pollster, e-mail >me at "DIY_EFI-owner". ... I will *definitely* be building something. Not willing to spend _too_ much, gotta keep the wife & cats fed... From lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu: >> well restricted in its range of uses. I'll be using leaded fuel, so that >> rules that out. What about in an alky engine. Is an O2 sensor any use ? > >Since you are using leaded fuel, is it safe to assume this is a racecar? Some uncivilised parts of the world still use leaded exclusively. Like here where I am. Is it impossible to measure the mixture when using leaded, or do you just need different sensors? >You don't need an FI system to have a thermocouple in each exhaust >port... they provide nice info on cylinder balance, and can quickly >point out problems. UEGO's are also realllly nice, but they're kinda >expensive. Where would one find a thermocouple to fit in the exhaust? And of how much use are they? OK almost finished. Final item: what I currently plan to build to use as an EFI controller. My requirements are that I can use the system at home to play with, as well as in the car. This means that I have some widely separate requirements, such as an IDE interface and possibly VGA, at least Hercules display, and a PC keyboard port. And DRAM. On the other hand I want battery backed up RAM (Not Dallas, frightfully expensive over here) and EEPROM. Flash support would be nice. Lots of timers, for both systems. 2 serial ports, RS232 or RS422 selectable. Lots of static ram for a "flight recorder". So I've been planning something similar to what John has been doing, but with more ram, timers etc. This board would have two ports, one for additional ram & stuff when the thing is working as a computer, and an IO port for attaching all the A/D converters etc. The motherboard would be the expensive one, so I would hope to get it right the first time. I plan to integrate my existing design with the one by cyliax and John's one. PS .za, for those who are wondering, is South Africa. Nice place. Come visit sometime. Wouter de Waal Development Engineer CCII Systems Kenilworth South Africa From owner-diy_efi Wed Oct 26 14:44:05 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA27728; Wed, 26 Oct 94 14:44:05 GMT Received: from abacus.gsfc.nasa.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA27723; Wed, 26 Oct 94 10:44:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 10:50:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Dirk Broer To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <941026105017.10e2@abacus.gsfc.nasa.gov> Subject: RE: Intro message Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Subj: Various comments >My requirements are that I can use the system at home to play with, as >well as in the car. This means that I have some widely separate requirements, >such as an IDE interface and possibly VGA, at least Hercules display, and >a PC keyboard port. And DRAM. On the other hand I want battery backed up Go with a serial port - stick to ANSI conventions and use any VT100 or a PC / Laptop with emulation software. The serial port must be interrupt driven and for simplicity use XON/XOFF hand shaking (so you can use old / cheap vt100's) Also consider writing a bootstrap program that will accept code accross the serial port - when you have the right code - then reburn the prom without the bootstrap - but with the correct code. For bootstrap - look into the requirements for Borland's Turbo C remote debugger. Perhaps you can make it work with the 68000. As far as I know the Borland interface is the easiest / best way to debug embedded systems (at least intel based). Dirk From owner-diy_efi Wed Oct 26 17:53:42 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29114; Wed, 26 Oct 94 17:53:42 GMT Received: from localhost.eng.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29109; Wed, 26 Oct 94 13:53:39 -0400 Message-Id: <9410261753.AA29109@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Various comments In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 26 Oct 94 16:23:51 +0200." Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 13:53:38 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI -------- In message , you write: | be getting Linux in a couple of weeks time. So John, please let me know | what to do to get gcc running and emitting 68000 code that I can use | for a simple embedded system. And what do I use for libraries? gcc and 68000 -- This is worth the effort to build. I used "m68k-sun-sunos4" as the target, but I think most people use os3. Let me now when you're ready, and I can put together some things like libgcc.a. libraries -- glibc-1.08.8 (a pre-release) has embedded system support. The main release is expected after one or two more pre-releases (not out yet). RTEMS also has the C-library in it, but it's configured for the 68020. (it's a modified glibc and (I believe) parallels the new glibc embedded support; its author had a hand in the GNU version). I am porting RTEMS to the 68000 and what I now call the EFI68k (my 68000 board). I'm about half way through it (maybe ???). This is a real multi-tasking kernel that I also strongly recommend. There are some *.ps files on this mail server that describe it. I hope to have the port finished in a month or so. | My requirements are that I can use the system at home to play with, as | well as in the car. This means that I have some widely separate requirements, | such as an IDE interface and possibly VGA, at least Hercules display, and | a PC keyboard port. And DRAM. On the other hand I want battery backed up Does this mean you will buy, say, a 'PC' video card and plug it into your board? If so, I've heard this can be fairly difficult to do if your are not using a 80x86 variant since all 'PC' cards (such as the video card) carries its own boot-rom. One must read, decode, then re-write a new boot routine. Most people find it easier to just buy the video chip set and make their own board. (maybe that's what you meant) (If you do either, I would like to know.) I would agree with Dirk, "Go with a serial port..." If you need more, I would think about having a 'PC' communicating to the controller (IMHO). Oh, and don't forget gdb can be configured to work as a remote debugger over the serial port. No need for the Borland stuff :). John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Thu Oct 27 00:59:25 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA00551; Thu, 27 Oct 94 00:59:25 GMT Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA00545; Wed, 26 Oct 94 20:59:14 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #21) id m0r0JAv-000CuZC; Wed, 26 Oct 94 19:58 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Various comments To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 26 Oct 1994 19:58:41 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Wouter de Waal" at Oct 26, 94 04:23:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1990 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Wouter de Waal writes: > > I've just rebuilt a VW Type IV engine, which will be going into my Puma > soon. (A Puma is a glassfibre body sitting on a bug chassis, that was > produced locally and in Brazil. Probably still is being produced in Brazil) > > This engine uses D-Jetronic,and being a tinkerer as well as the abovementioned > masochist, I would like to play with the system. For starters I'll look > at the inputs to the EFI box, and the outputs, and get the map. Later > I can start the specialised stuff, like using better sensors. Even > after reading the archives, I can't figure out what the consensus is on > hot-wire mass sensors versus manifold vacuum sensing. Vacuum seems to > be cheaper and easier from a hardware point of view, but Bosch sez that > it's less accurate. Help! At WOT, the speed denisty systems are almost always much more accurate than mass air based systems. Mass air is easier to calibrate, tho. > Some uncivilised parts of the world still use leaded exclusively. Like > here where I am. Is it impossible to measure the mixture when using > leaded, or do you just need different sensors? You can do it, for maybe a 100 miles or so before the EGO's are totally shot. > >You don't need an FI system to have a thermocouple in each exhaust > >port... they provide nice info on cylinder balance, and can quickly > >point out problems. UEGO's are also realllly nice, but they're kinda > >expensive. > > Where would one find a thermocouple to fit in the exhaust? And of how > much use are they? I'm not sure where mine came from. I know Omega makes some. The are just normal K-type thermocouples encased in a thin 12" stainless steel probe. I'm not sure how much they cost. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://frank.mtsu.edu:8001/~lusky/ (615) 455-9915 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi Thu Oct 27 01:16:37 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA00711; Thu, 27 Oct 94 01:16:37 GMT Received: from localhost.eng.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA00706; Wed, 26 Oct 94 21:16:35 -0400 Message-Id: <9410270116.AA00706@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Various comments In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 26 Oct 94 19:58:41 CDT." Date: Wed, 26 Oct 94 21:16:34 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI -------- In message , you write: | I'm not sure where mine came from. I know Omega makes some. The are | just normal K-type thermocouples encased in a thin 12" stainless steel ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | probe. I'm not sure how much they cost. ^^^^^ This doesn't sound like the "pictures" I've seen with bosses welded onto the manifold holding the thermocouples. Would you elaborate... 12" - why so long? Is this something you just hold against the manifold to make a measurement? John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------