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Subject: RE: Dale's 68332
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Speaking of 6833X systems, what is available in the area of evaluation boards
for this microcontroller?  Are they reasonably priced for the basement EFI'er?


From owner-diy_efi  Tue Nov  8 20:13:44 1994
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From: Dale Ulan <ulan@ee.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: Dale's 68332
To: DIY_EFI
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 94 13:13:20 MST
In-Reply-To: <9411081529.AA13336@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu>; from "John S Gwynne" at Nov 08, 94 10:29 am
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>    In message <9411080221.AA10587@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> , you write:
>  
> Sounds good... I look forward to see what you come-up with.
> Is this an "open" design where you will share both the
> board schematics and software source code?
> 

Yes. I imagine I won't have source 'publishable' for a couple
months as I write it...

I was writing it in assembler (68000 assembler is nice
to work with), and my 'real time' kernel is basically the
main program loop... although the 68k does multitasking nicely,
I don't find it necessary for this application.

My communication with a host PC will be at 38400 (or somewhere
around there), with a host program on the PC, so the 68k doesn't
have to deal with a terminal-based UI. All of my development
is taking place on IBM-PC based development tools.

-Dale

From owner-diy_efi  Tue Nov  8 23:06:48 1994
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From: Craig Pugsley <c.pugsley@trl.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199411082306.AA17713@shiva.trl.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Found.. 8051 FAQ.
To: DIY_EFI
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 10:06:16 +1100 (EST)
Cc: ciciora@spot.Colorado.EDU
In-Reply-To: <199411082019.AA14690@tomcat.al.noaa.gov> from "Ciciora Steve" at Nov 8, 94 01:10:39 pm
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> >This is what I plan to do to get it running: 
> > 
> >I'm going to just use a "3-D" look-up table, with RPM on one axis and
> >load on the other (load being just engine vacuum level for starters).
> >The location pointed to by RPM and load will be a number that is used
> >for a counter that turns on the injectors: 
> > 
> >I plan to use 4 bits (=16 points) for the RPM axis and 5 bits (=32 
> >points) for the load axis, giving a total of 512 settings - (Co 
> >incidentally the same way that other well known controllers are laid 
> >out). 
> > 
> >Craig. 
> > 
>  
>   It sounds like your line of reasoning is very similar to mine!  I'm
> working on some code to do 4 point linear interpolation for the fuel map.
> My fuel map will take an 8 bit number (0->255) for the engine RPM and an
> 8 bit number for the engine load.

One problem with using a 255 RPM x 255 LOAD = 64K settings - impractical
(impossible) to calibrate each and every one of those points.

I guess you could do your on dyno/road calibration with something like
what I suggested above (32 load settings x 16 rpm settngs) and then
linearly interpolate the intermediate settings (Either in real time in
the processor or via a PC and program the memory with the full 255x255
map)

> My map will be 17 x 17 x 8 bit numbers.

IE (17 load x 17 rpm settings?)
I'm un-decided if an 8 bit injection time will have enough 'dynamic
range' from idle to full throttle, though it's probably easier to deal
with an 8 bit number.

> Even though i will use the upper 4 bits (0->15)
> for the lookup of the map, to get a point on either side of the 0->15 
> number you need 17 points, hence the 17 x 17 map instead of 16 x 16.
> >From then I will use the lower 4 bits to do a 4 point linear interpolation.

Sorry, I don't understand. Can you explain it in a bit more detail?
(Maybe an ASCII diagram)

Thanks for re-posting the fuel amount theory article. (I have it
somewhere but finding it is another story)

Craig.

From owner-diy_efi  Tue Nov  8 23:29:14 1994
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From: met@pine.cse.nau.edu (MTN-KAT)
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 16:29:08 -0700
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I have a Digikey catalog, they don't seem to cover the components that I need.
Could some of y'all give me some names and numbers?

I was using my 800 directory, after several wrong numbers I checked the issue
date, 1987! Just a bit out of date, eh?

Thanks!

Millam

From owner-diy_efi  Tue Nov  8 23:41:22 1994
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From: Cary McCallister <cmcalstr@hpcvts.cv.hp.com>
Message-Id: <9411082343.AA23010@hpcvts.cv.hp.com>
Subject: 800 numbers
To: DIY_EFI
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 94 15:43:11 PST
In-Reply-To: <199411082329.QAA10182@pine.cse.nau.edu>; from "MTN-KAT" at Nov 8, 94 4:29 pm
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>
>I was using my 800 directory, after several wrong numbers I checked the issue
>date, 1987! Just a bit out of date, eh?

You might try using the online version.  URL http://att.net/dir800

Cary


From owner-diy_efi  Wed Nov  9 03:49:31 1994
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From: Craig Pugsley <c.pugsley@trl.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199411090349.AA28733@shiva.trl.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: FW: 67F687
To: DIY_EFI
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 14:48:51 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199411081750.AA14247@tomcat.al.noaa.gov> from "Ciciora Steve" at Nov 8, 94 10:41:48 am
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Hi there,
 I just looked up the 67F687 data sheet - wow! This baby's got it all.

55 pages, looks like it will work w/8 bit micros.

I rang up for pricing, and was told in 1 off qtys it's $AUS 48.10 each
(Which is $US 36 approx) - I think the hardware contained in the chip
would reduce your programming load by half. (& in a commercial design
with the numbers ground off anyone copying your design wouldn't know
WHAT it was ;-)

Craig.

From owner-diy_efi  Wed Nov  9 04:06:12 1994
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From: Jeff Francis <jeff@prufrock.bga.com>
Message-Id: <199411090405.WAA03745@prufrock.bga.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics suppliers?
To: DIY_EFI
Date: Tue, 8 Nov 1994 22:05:55 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <199411082329.QAA10182@pine.cse.nau.edu> from "MTN-KAT" at Nov 8, 94 04:29:08 pm
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According to MTN-KAT:

> I have a Digikey catalog, they don't seem to cover the components that I need.
> Could some of y'all give me some names and numbers?

> I was using my 800 directory, after several wrong numbers I checked the issue
> date, 1987! Just a bit out of date, eh?

	I'm not sure exactly what you need for components, but I've
ordered from Jameco in the past.  1-800-831-4242.  They have no
minimum order (!!!), though there is a $5 "processing fee" for orders
under $25.

	I've also purchased through JDR MicroDevices.  I was *very*
pleased with them.  They have friendly, helpful order-takers and very
speedy delivery.  Note that this was about a year ago.  Haven't
ordered many goodies lately.  Don't have a catalog handy for a phone
number, but it should be available from 800 Directory Assistance.


-- 
           Jeff Francis              -------------------------------------
      1 512 444 4003 (home)          Ligneous and petrous projectiles can
      1 512 795 3010 (work)          potentially fracture my osseous
          Austin, TX USA             structure, but pejorative appelations
    jeff@prufrock.bga.com (home)     will forever remain innocuous.
    Jeff_Francis@sns.net  (work)     -------------------------------------

From owner-diy_efi  Wed Nov  9 22:30:45 1994
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Message-Id: <199411092237.AA00507@tomcat.al.noaa.gov>
Date: 9 Nov 1994 15:29:10 -0700
From: "Ciciora Steve" <sciciora@al.noaa.gov>
Subject: FW: Re: Found.. 8051 FAQ.
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(stuff deleted)

>>   It sounds like your line of reasoning is very similar to mine!  I'm
>> working on some code to do 4 point linear interpolation for the fuel map.
>> My fuel map will take an 8 bit number (0->255) for the engine RPM and an
>> 8 bit number for the engine load.

>One problem with using a 255 RPM x 255 LOAD = 64K settings - >impractical
>(impossible) to calibrate each and every one of those points.

No, you misunderstood.  The map in the EFI box has 17 x 17 x 8 bits = 289 bytes
stored.  These are the values the user can modify.  What I do is 4 point linear
interpolation between the 4 points nearest to the desired value. 
Impractical/impossible?  Remember Y=mX + B?  Just do it 3 times using integer
math.  The results (the way I do it) is a 16 bit number.  Just use the number
of Most Significant Bits you need.  At this point I'm not willing to guess how
many bits I will need.
  I only use the 4 most significant bits of the 8 bit load and the 8 bit RPM
numbers to get my 4 points from my table to interpolate between.  16 RPM x 16
Load = 256 values.  If you want a data point on each side of these 256 values,
you can use a 17 x 17 point table.  I use the 4 least significant bits to scale
between the 17 x 17 data points.

>I guess you could do your on dyno/road calibration with something >like
>what I suggested above (32 load settings x 16 rpm settngs) and then
>linearly interpolate the intermediate settings (Either in real time >in
>the processor or via a PC and program the memory with the full >255x255 map)

Yup.  I'm only guessing that a 17 x 17 map will be enough.  What did you base
your decision on using 32 load numbers on?  Do you know something I don't?

>> My map will be 17 x 17 x 8 bit numbers.

>IE (17 load x 17 rpm settings?)

Yup.

>I'm un-decided if an 8 bit injection time will have enough 'dynamic
>range' from idle to full throttle, though it's probably easier to >deal with
an 8 bit number.

My 4 bit linear interpolation code returns a 16 bit result.  I'm sure that 16
bits is more than needed, and would not be suprised if 8 bits is enough.  I'm
not that far along to decide (yet...).

- Steven Ciciora

From owner-diy_efi  Thu Nov 10 01:14:44 1994
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 1994 17:14:29 -0800 (PST)
From: James C Patterson <james@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Carb adjustment using exhaust temp...
To: Electronic Fuel Injection <DIY_EFI>
In-Reply-To: <199411092340.PAA05490@uclink3.berkeley.edu>
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This is somewhat off the aim of this group but until I do an EFI I might
as well use what I've got.
 
Someone at one point (I think it was this list) mentioned using
thermocouples in the exhaust (one per cylinder) to measure for mixture and
balance.  What type of readings would you be looking for?  Higher
temperatures on lean burning or just the opposite?  And are there actual
values to look for other then the realitive Delta-T?

The engine is a Nissan staight 6 with dual carbs, therefore the mixture 
balance issue.

If I can work this out it will very simple to install sheathed
thermocouples in the air injection ports of the header and run a
data-logger to pull up some real-time info of actual use. 
 
James
james@uclink.berkeley.edu
 
 

From owner-diy_efi  Thu Nov 10 01:14:46 1994
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From: Craig Pugsley <c.pugsley@trl.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199411100114.AA16364@shiva.trl.OZ.AU>
Subject: EFI mapping ideas.
To: DIY_EFI
Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 12:14:08 +1100 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <199411092237.AA00507@tomcat.al.noaa.gov> from "Ciciora Steve" at Nov 9, 94 03:29:10 pm
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> >One problem with using a 255 RPM x 255 LOAD = 64K settings - >impractical
> >(impossible) to calibrate each and every one of those points.
> 
> No, you misunderstood.  The map in the EFI box has 17 x 17 x 8 bits = 289 bytes
> stored.  These are the values the user can modify.  What I do is 4 point linear
> interpolation between the 4 points nearest to the desired value. 

OK, so the user has to calibrate 289 points, right? -A lot less than 64K
:-)

Then you interpolate between the settings if the value.

EG:
Injector on-time
|
|          **# 
|        #*   **
|       *       *#       (#= user calibrated) 
|      *                 (*= computer interpolated)
|     *
|    #
|_______________________ LOAD (= vacuum)
     ^   ^   ^   ^       (^=points where the user calibrates)
(At a fixed engine RPM)

So, you are interpolating between 2 points on the RPM axis and 2 points
on the Load axis, making an overall interpolation between 4 points?
If it works properly it should be quite nice.

> Yup.  I'm only guessing that a 17 x 17 map will be enough.  What did you base
> your decision on using 32 load numbers on?  Do you know something I don't?

From what I can determine, the load is much more important than the RPM.
(I did some measurements of an aftermarket computer, and the pulse time
the injector was on for did not vary with RPM (Well, when under engine
vacuum. When under boost it did)

The 32 load points is what several well known computers use (EG
Haltech).
If you're using interpolation 32 wouldn't matter, you might even get
away with something as low as 4 or 8. I'd say 17x17 w/interpolation
should be more than adaquate.
In the initial stages I won't be using interpolation, hence using 32
bits.

> >I'm un-decided if an 8 bit injection time will have enough 'dynamic
> >range' from idle to full throttle, though it's probably easier to >deal with
> an 8 bit number.
> 
> My 4 bit linear interpolation code returns a 16 bit result.  I'm sure that 16
> bits is more than needed, and would not be suprised if 8 bits is enough.  I'm
> not that far along to decide (yet...).

I think that the 16bits you get out of interpolation from 8 bit numbers
can still only really be considered to be 8 bit accurate.
HOWEVER, I might well be missing something here (Take the above comment
as being possible/probably incorrect).
If 8 bits is accurate enough for fuel metering there won't be a problem
anyway.

Anyone else on the list like to comment about their fuel mapping ideas?

Craig.

pugsley@trl.oz.au

From owner-diy_efi  Thu Nov 10 03:14:15 1994
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From: klemm@optilink.dsccc.com (Joe Klemm)
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Date: Wed, 9 Nov 94 19:13:14 PST
Message-Id: <9411100313.AA10431@hayesss2>
To: DIY_EFI
Subject: Re: EFI mapping ideas.
Sender: owner-diy_efi
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Reply-To: DIY_EFI


I'm not sure if I understand the fuel mapping 4 point linear interpolation
correctly.  But it seems to me if you interpolate 4 points between two 8 bit
numbers what you get is almost a 10 bit value (1020 values compared to 1024)
not 16.

I did this a few years ago while temperture characterizing a VCO and it worked
fine. But each time you add an interpolated point you only increase the
resolution by one bit.


