From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 09:02:55 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA09576; Fri, 6 May 94 09:02:55 GMT Received: from grolsch-2.cs.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA09570; Fri, 6 May 94 05:02:52 -0400 Received: by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca id AA10975 (5.65c/IDA-1.3.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 6 May 1994 02:02:50 -0700 X400-Received: by mta cs.ubc.ca in /PRMD=/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Fri, 6 May 1994 2:02:48 UTC-0700 X400-Received: by /PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Fri, 6 May 1994 2:02:47 UTC-0700 Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 2:02:47 UTC-0700 X400-Originator: rodb@cs.ubc.ca X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/;940506020247] Content-Identifier: 1267 Conversion: Prohibited From: Rod Barman To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <199405060744.TAA28966@kcbbs.gen.nz> Message-Id: <"1267*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: USE THE MINIBOARD !!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Ean X.400 to MIME gateway) Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I'm an EE too and though I missed the intro/charter here is my suggestion if you want to minimize cost, maximize free software, and maximize time spent programming: USE THE MINIBOARD !!!! 68HC11 based, artwork/docs available from mit via ftp, boards and kits available REAL cheap (check comp.robotics or I can email the info to anyone who asks), interactive C available, gcc port available, support for macs, pc's, unix, etc. All that this group would have to decide on is which output pins on the '11 drive what injectors/coil drivers and which inputs go to where and then program !!! I can post to the list more info if there is interest ... YMMV, worth what you paid for it, etc. -- Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 12:40:14 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA10690; Fri, 6 May 94 12:40:14 GMT Received: from gw.bbt.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA10682; Fri, 6 May 94 08:40:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (uucp@localhost) by gw.bbt.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) with UUCP id IAA03265 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 6 May 1994 08:41:33 -0400 Received: from mckean.bbt.com (mckean [192.55.93.48]) by macros (8.6.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id IAA17816 for ; Fri, 6 May 1994 08:39:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 08:39:51 -0400 From: Ron Rader aka PTM Message-Id: <199405061239.IAA17816@macros> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Intro / CPU types Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >I've used quite a variety of microcontrollers and before we dive in and >declare that XYZ is the only true way, it would make some sense to >determine what capabilities the system requires. I don't have the time for an intro/project description at the point, but I will add that all the discussion centering around specifics is jumping the gun. If the purpose of this list is to collectively design an EFI/ignition control system, we're really gonna have to adhere to a more formal development lifecycle. Steve is right. Exactly _what_ are we designing? What requirements are we trying to satisfy? I'll tell ya one thing, if I'm gonna contribute, it had better be cheap. Ron "Belch" Rader From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 13:10:21 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA10920; Fri, 6 May 94 13:10:21 GMT Received: from cs.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA10914; Fri, 6 May 94 09:10:20 -0400 Received: from needmore.cs.utexas.edu (haskett@needmore.cs.utexas.edu [128.83.138.122]) by cs.utexas.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA21165 for ; Fri, 6 May 1994 08:10:02 -0500 Received: by needmore.cs.utexas.edu (5.64/Client-v1.4) id AA18922; Fri, 6 May 94 08:09:50 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 08:09:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Brian Scott Haskett Subject: O2 Sensors To: Do-It-Yourself EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Can someone who is electrically-inclined please explain how O2 sensors are read? I understand the output of the sensors (basically an s-curve that is an on/off switch, between 0 and 1 volt), but do you read this voltage? I have heard that due to something (high-impedance?), you cannot read this voltage with a normal voltmeter or you will ruin the sensor. Can someone explain WHY this is and what the correct way to read the sensor is? Also, how will we read the sensor for our EFI system? Will a regular A/D board be able to do it? thanks- Brian PS I have no idea what impedance is. From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 13:38:10 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11155; Fri, 6 May 94 13:38:10 GMT Received: from localhost.eng.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA11149; Fri, 6 May 94 09:38:08 -0400 Message-Id: <9405061338.AA11149@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Cc: jsg Subject: Re: archiving this list In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 05 May 94 22:34:47 CDT." Date: Fri, 06 May 94 09:38:07 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- In message , you write: | Is this list being archived anywhere? Yes. I'll give instruction on how to get it after I try it this weekend. John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 14:46:38 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11559; Fri, 6 May 94 14:46:38 GMT Received: from grolsch-2.cs.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA11553; Fri, 6 May 94 10:46:35 -0400 Received: by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca id AA13989 (5.65c/IDA-1.3.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 6 May 1994 07:45:54 -0700 X400-Received: by mta cs.ubc.ca in /PRMD=/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Fri, 6 May 1994 7:45:52 UTC-0700 X400-Received: by /PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Fri, 6 May 1994 7:45:52 UTC-0700 Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 7:45:52 UTC-0700 X400-Originator: rodb@cs.ubc.ca X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/;940506074552] Content-Identifier: 1269 Conversion: Prohibited From: Rod Barman To: Brian Scott Haskett Cc: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <"1269*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: Re: USE THE MINIBOARD !!!! Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Ean X.400 to MIME gateway) Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, since you asked ... GETTING STARTED WITH THE MINI BOARD This short document is an introduction to the Mini Board. This information is posted to the Internet newsgroup "comp.robotics" periodically or upon request, or may be mailed to individuals who specifically requested information. This document may be distributed without restriction. The Mini Board is a miniature microprocessor-based controller board designed for control of small robotic devices. It may be used for any number of applications that require sensing with analog and digital electronic sensors and/or control of DC and stepper motors. It may programmed to operate "stand-alone" (i.e, running a program autonomously from its internal memory) or attached via an RS-232 serial line to provide sensing and control capability to a desktop computer. The Mini Board was designed at the MIT Media Laboratory. The printed circuit board design, electronic schematic, related software, and documentation are are copyrighted but may be distributed and used freely. This means that you may use the Mini Board for any application you like without having to pay anyone for its design, but you must leave the copyright information intact if you re-distribute boards and/or plans. The remainder of this note provides the following additional information: 1. An introduction to the Mini Board: its functionality, hardware design, and available software. 2. How to obtain documentation, software, and printed circuit board artwork for the Mini Board. 3. How to obtain physical boards, parts kits, and assembled boards. 4. How to join the "robot-board" mailing list, which is formed largely of Mini Board users. For more information, please contact Fred Martin at fredm@media.mit.edu. 1. THE MINI BOARD 2.0 A miniature controller board for small mobile robots The MINI BOARD 2.0 is a complete embedded computer board for robotic applications. It can directly power four DC motors and receive inputs from numerous sensors. Its miniature size (smaller than a business card) makes it suited well for mobile applications as well as other embedded control. It can be programmed in 6811 assembler code or C for stand-alone operation, or it can serve as a serial-line based controller operated by a desktop computer. * overall dimensions: 3.3" by 1.86", smaller than a business card. If desired, an off-board serial connector can be used, allowing an additional .6" of board length can be chopped off. * nearly all parts can be purchased from Digikey (including all connectors and switches). Extensive use of resistor packs minimizes component count. * uses Motorola 68hc811e2 microprocessor with 2048 bytes of internal, electrically erasable PROM and 256 bytes of RAM. * four motor drivers for bidirectional control of small DC motors (up to 600 mA current, 36 volts each motor). * eight analog inputs; eight digital inputs or outputs; several timer and counter I/O pins, all broken out to convenient header ports. * on-board 5v regulator allows board to be powered by any DC power source from 5.6 to 36 volts. * RS-232 compatible RJ-11 port for communication/program download between host computer. * two modular high speed serial jacks, allowing networks of multiple MB 2.0's to be constructed using common 4-wire phone cable. Multiple-mastering bus protocols supported. * optional battery level monitoring using voltage divider from supply voltage before regulation. * XIRQ line broken out to a pad: when this line is given 12.5v, an 'hc711e9 chip with 12K of EPROM can be programmed in place. * MS-DOS, Macintosh, and Unix software provided for downloading programs to board. 6811 monitor program provided for recording changes in sensor state, controlling motors and interacting with other board features over serial line. * C/assembler libraries provided for code development using Dunfield Development Systems' Micro-C compiler, and ImageCraft's freeware icc11 C compiler. 2. MINI BOARD DOCUMENTATION, SOFTWARE, AND PC BOARD ARTWORK Full documentation for the Mini Board is available via anonymous FTP to "cherupakha.media.mit.edu" (Internet 18.85.0.47). Go to "pub/miniboard" directory and begin by reading the README file located there. ** You will need a PostScript printer to print out the documentation files; the main document is about 60 pages long. ** If you do not have ready access to a PostScript printer, you may order a hard copy by sending a check or money order for $5 (U.S. dollars) made out to "MIT Epistemology and Learning" at: Epistemology and Learning Publications M.I.T. Media Laboratory 20 Ames Street Room E15-315 Cambridge, MA 02139 Request the "Mini Board 2.0 Technical Reference." International orders are accepted without any surcharge; you just have to obtain a check payable in U.S. currency. Software for the MS-DOS, Macintosh, and Unix platforms is also provided on the FTP server. The provided software includes a 6811 assembler and a program for downloading assembled programs to the Mini Board. ImageCraft's icc11 C compiler for MS-DOS is also available from the MIT FTP site. If you are interested in using the Micro-C environment, you must buy Micro-C from Dunfield Development Systems (which has no affiliation with MIT). Information on doing this accompanies the Mini Board documentation. Printed circuit board artwork files, produced by Douglas Electronic's "Professional Layout" program for the Macintosh, are on-line the FTP server. For more information about using this format, see the information on the server. Gerber-format files are also available on the FTP server. People who don't have access to anonymous FTP can do FTP-by-mail, provided as a public service by DEC. Send a message containing the single word "help" to "ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com" for instructions. You probably will want to start your queries by retrieving the file named "allfiles.ftp", which is at the top-level directory of our FTP server. This file is a recursive directory listing of all files on the server. 3. OBTAINING PHYSICAL PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARDS. Two individuals are independent suppliers of Mini Board technology: * Gregory Ratcliff (gratclif@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu), 1763 Hess Boulevard, Columbus, Ohio 43212; (614) 487-0694 (late evenings EST). Greg sells blank boards for $6, parts kits, and assembled boards. Please contact him for information. * Mark Reeves (mdreeves@wart.nando.net), 1117 Braemar Court, Cary, NC 27511; BBS and voice (919) 481-3170 (voice hours from 5-7 pm EST). Mark sells blank boards for $4.75, a variety of parts kits, and assembled boards. See the file pub/miniboard/mb-kits.txt on the cherupakha FTP server or contact Mark directly for more info. Mark is a supplier of the recent board revision called the "Mini Board 2.0 Extended." This version of the Mini Board includes a power switch and DC power jack for ease of use. Please see the file pub/miniboard/mbextend.txt for more information. 4. MINI BOARD USERS' MAILING LIST Greg Kulosa has established a mailing list for users of the Mini Board and other robot controller boards. To join the list, send an e-mail message with the Subject: line containing the following text: subscribe robot-board to "listserv@oberon.com". Then you will be automatically added to the list. To send a message to the people on the list, write e-mail to "robot-board@oberon.com". Please *DO NOT* send administrative things to the main "robot-board" mailing list address, as then everyone will get annoyed. If you have trouble, you can contact Greg directly at "gkulosa@oberon.com". -----------------------end of document-------------------------- -----------------last updated Tue Mar 22 16:15:35 1994----------------- -- Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 14:49:36 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11640; Fri, 6 May 94 14:49:36 GMT Received: from hp-cv.cv.hp.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA11634; Fri, 6 May 94 10:49:26 -0400 Received: from hp-pcd.cv.hp.com by hp-cv.cv.hp.com with SMTP (1.36.108.7/15.5+IOS 3.22+CV 1.0ext) id AA12967; Fri, 6 May 1994 07:49:23 -0700 Received: from by hp-pcd.cv.hp.com with SMTP (1.37.109.8/15.5+IOS 3.22+OM+CV 1.0) id AA09975; Fri, 6 May 1994 07:49:22 -0700 From: cary_mccallister@hp-corvallis.om.hp.com X-Openmail-Hops: 2 Date: Fri, 6 May 94 07:48:39 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <"1267*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: Re: USE THE MINIBOARD !!!! Cc: DIY_EFI Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Item Subject: USE THE MINIBOARD !!!! The miniboard would be okay, but I would recommed the F1 board that was recently released. It has a higher amount of memory it can address, just the thing for holding mapped data. Cary McCallister ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: USE THE MINIBOARD !!!! Author: Non-HP-Diy-Efi-Owner (Diy_Efi-Owner@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu) at HP-Corvallis,unix1 Date: 5/6/94 2:02 AM Hi, I'm an EE too and though I missed the intro/charter here is my suggestion if you want to minimize cost, maximize free software, and maximize time spent programming: USE THE MINIBOARD !!!! 68HC11 based, artwork/docs available from mit via ftp, boards and kits available REAL cheap (check comp.robotics or I can email the info to anyone who asks), interactive C available, gcc port available, support for macs, pc's, unix, etc. All that this group would have to decide on is which output pins on the '11 drive what injectors/coil drivers and which inputs go to where and then program !!! I can post to the list more info if there is interest ... YMMV, worth what you paid for it, etc. -- Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 15:00:23 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11689; Fri, 6 May 94 15:00:23 GMT Received: from stdvax.gsfc.nasa.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA11683; Fri, 6 May 94 11:00:22 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 10:58:45 -0400 (EDT) From: OADDAB@STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV (DIRK BROER) Message-Id: <940506105845.2dc04180@STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV> Subject: Fuel pump regulation vs. supply voltage To: DIY_EFI X-Vmsmail-To: @EFI Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Question: how good is the fuel pump regulation as the supply voltage varies? Typically you run a high pressure pump - lets say 75psi and then use a regulator that references to manifold vacuum - something like 50psi above manifold vacuum. This helps insure that a given pulse width will alow a given amount of fuel in - no matter what the intake pressure is - even if its under boost. Pressures like 100psi - could be a safety concern so a little careful planning is in order. Use only fuel lines desinged for this pressure - better yet use braided steel lines for all flexible lines. Dirk From Diy_Efi-Owner Fri May 6 15:03:37 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11710; Fri, 6 May 94 15:03:37 GMT Received: from grolsch-2.cs.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu diy_efi-outgoing id AA11704; Fri, 6 May 94 11:03:35 -0400 Received: by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca id AA14281 (5.65c/IDA-1.3.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 6 May 1994 08:03:15 -0700 X400-Received: by mta cs.ubc.ca in /PRMD=/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Fri, 6 May 1994 8:03:13 UTC-0700 X400-Received: by /PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/; Relayed; Fri, 6 May 1994 8:03:13 UTC-0700 Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 8:03:13 UTC-0700 X400-Originator: rodb@cs.ubc.ca X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=ca/ADMD=/C=/;940506080313] Content-Identifier: 1270 Conversion: Prohibited From: Rod Barman To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <9405061338.AA11149@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: <"1270*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: Focus/Agenda Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Ean X.400 to MIME gateway) Sender: Diy_Efi-Owner Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, Since no one asked for it, I'll give you my opinion on what we should be doing :-). Let's take a two prong approach. First, let's start engine management by designing a ignition controller based on some microcontroller (the miniboard, the miniboard, the miniboard !!!) and get a bunch of people using that. We can start real simple and move on to fancy things like knock control. Then when we got our map reading routines, lap top communications, trouble codes :-) down we can move up to FI. Second, (and this is a pet project of mine) let's also work on an engine monitoring system based on a PC laptop and either through the parallel port or through a serial line to the same controller. Here I prefer the PC parallel port driving an optically buffered fancy multi-channel A/D and software. We can splurge and by the Sun electric high tension lead sensor cables. Finally, to those of you who really, really want to use XXX processor you can always follow along at home on your own system. You may want to pick up a miniboard anyways so that you can make your project car run in the meantime :-). -- Rod Barman, IRIS NCE @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence, University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca