From owner-diy_efi Fri Dec 2 17:33:49 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA24633; Fri, 2 Dec 94 17:33:49 GMT Received: from aces1.acenet.auburn.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA24628; Fri, 2 Dec 94 12:33:45 -0500 Received: from aces6 (aces6.acenet.auburn.edu) by acenet.auburn.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1 aces1 1.0) id AA01370; Fri, 2 Dec 94 11:33:43 CST From: Gregory A. Parmer Received: by aces6 (5.0/SMI-4.1) id AA02507; Fri, 2 Dec 1994 11:33:42 +0600 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 11:33:42 +0600 Message-Id: <9412021733.AA02507@aces6> To: DIY_EFI Subject: design question... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1542 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I keep listening in to learn others approaches, but I'm always looking for a better way. Does anyone have the specs/response time of the SCSI bus handy? It seems to me that a "black box" for I/O would be the best solution *if* the necessary bandwidth/response time could be achieved using a parallel, SCSI, or maybe a PCMCIA bus. I'd just like to see some room for greater flexibility in design than a dedicated controller with a mondo i/o bus (although I realize that the "black box" design could be a timing nightmare). An industry standard bus would be a major advantage if it could be done. ============================== | Controller | (parallel, scsi, or other standard) | (anything from a SBC to |<-------------------------- | a notebook PC) | | ============================== | V =========================== | I/O "Black Box" | =========================== | | | | | | | | | | | | (Multiple ttl i/o ports) Are the neccessary response times not possible? -greg Greg Parmer INTERNET: gparmer@acenet.auburn.edu Lead Specialist, Network Support VOICE: (205) 844-9660 Alabama Cooperative Extension Service FAX: (205) 844-3501 Auburn University, AL 36849-5646 From owner-diy_efi Fri Dec 2 19:08:35 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA25027; Fri, 2 Dec 94 19:08:35 GMT Received: from smtp.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA25022; Fri, 2 Dec 94 14:08:32 -0500 Received: from mail.utexas.edu (mail.utexas.edu [128.83.126.1]) by smtp.utexas.edu (8.6.7/8.6.6) with ESMTP id NAA26979 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:05:25 -0600 From: BigBrother@mail.utexas.edu Received: from [128.83.204.81] (slip-1-81.ots.utexas.edu [128.83.204.81]) by mail.utexas.edu (8.6.7/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA17936 for ; Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:03:24 -0600 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 13:03:24 -0600 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI Subject: The 8254 programmable interval timer Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > | We need real-time INPUTS for the crankshaft > | and cam position sensors, and real-time OUTPUTS > | for all injectors. > | > | Is there some special chip that works right > | on the bus to handle this? > Yes, the SSI67F687 was one such chip mentioned here > on this list. Silicon Systems was more than happy > to send me some of there propaganda. I also believe > I could use a 82C54 with a GAL or two (... flywheel > tooth counter and a PLL ...) to do this also. That's interesting. I'm not familiar with all of the 8000 Series stuff, but that sounds pretty neat. Is the 8254 kind of an like the output compare of the 68hc11? I do have a book (8088 Projects) that describes the 8259 which has 8 interupts. I suppose that could be used for the inputs. How many outputs does the 8259 have? By the way, how is the new 68k EFI board coming? I put a hault on my plans to construct .9, since your new and improved version is almost done. From owner-diy_efi Sun Dec 4 04:02:42 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29780; Sun, 4 Dec 94 04:02:42 GMT Received: from naitgate.nait.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29774; Sat, 3 Dec 94 23:02:37 -0500 Received: by naitgate.nait.ab.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22646; Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:59:10 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 20:59:09 -0700 (MST) From: Grant Beattie Subject: Simple Digital Systems To: wheeltowheel , DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI There is a company in Calgary, Alberta, Canada by the name of RaceTech Engineering that sells an engine control unit called Simple Digital Systems (programmable digital fuel injection). Does anyone have any experience with or information regarding this system? Thanks, GB From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 01:47:41 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01490; Wed, 7 Dec 94 01:47:41 GMT Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA01484; Tue, 6 Dec 94 20:47:06 -0500 Received: by shiva.trl.OZ.AU id AA19857 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:46:54 +1100 Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:46:54 +1100 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199412070146.AA19857@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> To: DIY_EFI Subject: (fwd) Circuit Cookbook FTP site Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Seen on SCI.ELECTRONICS: This is an automatic posting sent to sci.electronics twice per month. I maintain an FTP archive site containing a great deal of information which may be of interest to those reading this newsgroup. Its primary purpose is to serve as a repository for schematic diagrams and circuit information, though there is a bit of electrical engineering related software available as well. The site is known as "The Circuit Cookbook", and may be found via anonymous FTP at ftp.ee.ualberta.ca in the /pub/cookbook directory. I will be happy to answer any questions relating to the information available on the archive, but please ensure that you obtain the README file first, as many potential questions are addressed in there. I hope you find the site to be of interest. Dan -- Dan Charrois - University of Alberta, Electrical Engineering INTERNET: charro@ee.ualberta.ca | PGP Public Key available upon request From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 03:26:41 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02082; Wed, 7 Dec 94 03:26:41 GMT Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA02077; Tue, 6 Dec 94 22:26:37 -0500 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA26472; Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:28:15 -0500 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA29029; Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:26:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:26:36 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Valentine To: DIY_EFI Subject: EFI questions... Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I'm the "other half" of a fuel injection project on a Olds 350. So far, my co-conspiritior and I have decided on using a MAF based system, mainly for simplicity (In programming and in implementation). I'm starting to look at the programming half, and am getting in a little over my head. Here's some questions I need answered: 1. In a MAF based system, how is load on the motor figured? Along with that, given a choice of standard sensors, what's the simplest way to figure load? (I assume MAP) 2. Are there any example of fuel maps available for public inspection? I'm interested in seeing how some people have interpolated the values, and what values they're using. Ideally, I'd like to find a V8 map... 3. TPS sensors -- what info do we derive from them. For now, about all I can think of is how hard we're accelerating. I'm sort of thinking of it as a analog accelerator pump. One of the software folks asked, "Why do we even need them?" 4. Is there a list/FAQ of "commonly used sensors" and how they relate to each other and the system as a whole? 5. Knock sensors -- has anyone experimented with them in DIY systems? I'm still not totally immeresed in how they operate, but from a GM book, I managed to gain that they will put out a AC signal or around 2.5 volts when a knock state is present. Are there different sensors for different engines, since a V8 might have a different knock "signature" than a I4? 6. A little off the FI subject; I noticed that the GM DIS system (At least on a '91 Cavalier) uses the same control wires as the old C3 compu-distributor system. Do they use the same form of control? If so, what's the control method. That's all for now... BTW, the volume thru the List seems very low lately... any reason? --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 05:15:15 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02263; Wed, 7 Dec 94 05:15:15 GMT Received: from sunrise.Stanford.EDU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA02258; Wed, 7 Dec 94 00:15:12 -0500 Received: (from carryer@localhost) by sunrise.Stanford.EDU (8.6.8/8.6.6) id VAA20902; Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:15:09 -0800 Date: Tue, 6 Dec 1994 21:15:09 -0800 From: Ed Carryer Message-Id: <199412070515.VAA20902@sunrise.Stanford.EDU> To: DIY_EFI Cc: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: (message from Bob Valentine on Tue, 6 Dec 1994 22:26:36 -0500 (EST)) Subject: Re: EFI questions... Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Bob, the laod figure for a MAF equipped engine is Mass Air per Intake Stroke. i.e. flow rate(mass/unti time) divided by the cylinder fillings/unit time. If you haven't dis-assembled what you've got (fuel system wise). I'd set up the MAF w/ a computer to do data acq. and map the engine myself. It will be somewhat off because of the change in intake dynamics (assuming you are replacing a carb or TBI) but should get you in the ballpark. A map from another engine might get you into the right county but not as good as mapping your engine. It will be heavily influenced by valve timing, valve size, intake dynamics... best to get as many of these right as possible. With a 'perfect' MAF you shouldn't need a TPS, but we all know about perfect sensors ;) A simulated 'pump shot' is one good use of TPS. Knock sensors, at least the ones I know about are pretty nasty. they are really just accelerometers mounted on the intake manifold (usually). they are usually tuned to the resonant frequency of the combustion chamber so as to reject as much backgound noise as possible. But they still require after treatment to get a determination of 'knock' this usually involves things like integrating the output over a crank angle window when knock should occur (if present) and comparing that to some threshold (black art here...) to determine knock. what sounds like a straight forward task gets real messy in reality. Does anyone know if the situation is better than this today ? My experience is several years old now. good luck, ed -- From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 05:19:08 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02280; Wed, 7 Dec 94 05:19:08 GMT Received: from eigen.ee.ualberta.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA02275; Wed, 7 Dec 94 00:19:06 -0500 Message-Id: <9412070519.AA02275@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by eigen.ee.ualberta.ca (1.37.109.4/15.6) id AA04104; Tue, 6 Dec 94 22:19:02 -0700 From: Dale Ulan Subject: Re: EFI questions... To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 6 Dec 94 22:19:01 MST In-Reply-To: ; from "Bob Valentine" at Dec 6, 94 10:26 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > 1. In a MAF based system, how is load on the motor figured? > Along with that, given a choice of standard sensors, what's > the simplest way to figure load? (I assume MAP) You can determine load nicely by dividing MAF by RPM. In fact, you must do this to determine the injection pulse width. > > 2. Are there any example of fuel maps available for public > inspection? I'm interested in seeing how some people > have interpolated the values, and what values they're using. > Ideally, I'd like to find a V8 map... Actually, if you are using a *fast* MAF sensor, which is not filtered very much, and if you use some of the modern engine control system theory, you first end up determining the engine mass air flow directly in grams per second. You do this by sampling the MAF synchronous with the crankshaft, but you must over-sample by at least 2 times. You can vary the over-sampling rate if you want. I do it at 45/2 degree increments up to about 3500 rpm. Above this, I use 45 degree. After this, the calculations are easy to do from first principles. The real trick is getting a real sensor curve for the MAF sensor. You may want to ask Bosch for a full calibration curve for one of their sensors. Choose one you like first, though. Generally the sensors are so fast that transients are reproduced well. So are cylinder filling events. > 3. TPS sensors -- what info do we derive from them. For now, > about all I can think of is how hard we're accelerating. > I'm sort of thinking of it as a analog accelerator pump. > One of the software folks asked, "Why do we even need them?" You use it if you are dealing with slow sensors that can't correctly respond to transients. Also a problem with slow computers, etc. Basically when the control system doesn't match the theoretical requirements. Yes, you use an accelerator pump on it. If you're a bit more adventurous, check out some of the articles in the 1992 through 1994 engine control special publications (SAE). There's one on a manifold pressure observer. This one looks like it might be neat to implement. > > Are there different sensors for different engines, since > a V8 might have a different knock "signature" than a > I4? Yes. They have different resonant frequencies. There are also different amplifier modules for those systems with separate knock amplifier modules. > > 6. A little off the FI subject; I noticed that the GM DIS system > (At least on a '91 Cavalier) uses the same control wires as > the old C3 compu-distributor system. Do they use the same > form of control? If so, what's the control method. If it's a 4-wire system, probably yes. You have a ground, ref out to computer, spark signal in from computer, and bypass from computer. Bypass = low... spark occurs when ref pulse is on h-l transition. ref pulse is fed to coil directly. The computer doesn't have to do anything. Bypass = high... spark occurs when spark signal line goes from low to high. Coil is on when spark signal line is high. Spark signal line has a pull-up in the distributor run off of the bypass line. -Dale From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 07:56:07 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02539; Wed, 7 Dec 94 07:56:07 GMT Received: from aztec.co.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA02533; Wed, 7 Dec 94 02:55:55 -0500 Received: by aztec.co.za (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0rFHCy-000KdPC; Wed, 7 Dec 94 09:54 EET Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 09:54:40 +0200 (SAT) From: Wouter de Waal Subject: Re: EFI questions... To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <9412070519.AA02275@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Tue, 6 Dec 1994, Dale Ulan wrote: > You may want to ask Bosch for a full calibration curve for one of Do you have a good contact at Bosch? Or if not, who are the guys to ask? I assume they're _not_ on the net :-) Seriously, I have many questions to ask these guys. If I knew _who_ to ask. Wouter From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 09:58:44 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02673; Wed, 7 Dec 94 09:58:44 GMT Received: from kaiwan.kaiwan.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA02668; Wed, 7 Dec 94 04:58:41 -0500 Received: from kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (1300@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com [192.215.30.9]) by kaiwan.kaiwan.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id BAA21481; Wed, 7 Dec 1994 01:58:20 -0800 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Received: (from patriot@localhost) by kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id BAA05689; Wed, 7 Dec 1994 01:58:15 -0800 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 01:58:14 -0800 (PST) From: Nate To: mc68hc11@bobcat.etsu.edu, robot-board@oberon.com, DIY_EFI Subject: New Chip, Great Idea Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I got some information on a new chip, this is a great idea for those of you who design stuff that uses a HC11 or 8051 and need more ports and less board space used. The chips are the "PSD" family. They contain Eprom, RAM, address decode logic, ports and such. Most of the stuff you normaly have as seperate chips. The chip has a window for erase of the Eprom. They have many models, so you should ask for the information sheets they have. Oh, it connects directly to the micro, no "latch" chip needed! looks like you call 800-TEAM-WSI 800-832-6974 in calif 800-562-6363 I guess you would ask for the PSD programable MCU peripherals. I don't know about the cost of these, but they say it saves money. They always say that anyway. The only thing I would like to see with them is the ability to make a input flip a flip flop then toggle a output port in situations where I would have to put some "glue" logic and could waste a port. It looks like the chip won't allow that. It looks great as a port expander because it also takes out the need for a Eprom socket and RAM. Let me know what you think when you get the data. This should make some of these "mini boards" a whole lot smaller! From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 17:15:58 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07387; Wed, 7 Dec 94 17:15:58 GMT Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA07381; Wed, 7 Dec 94 12:15:51 -0500 Received: from twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com by wotan.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0rFPy1-000vIdC; Wed, 7 Dec 94 11:15 CST Received: from bangate.compaq.com by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0rFPxy-000uHCC; Wed, 7 Dec 94 11:15 CST Message-Id: Received: by bangate.compaq.com with VINES ; Wed, 7 Dec 94 11:15:47 CST Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 11:14:19 CST From: Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com Subject: re: EFI questions... To: diy_efi Cc: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Bob Valentine Wrote: | I'm the "other half" of a fuel injection project on a Olds | 350. | So far, my co-conspiritior and I have decided on using a MAF | based system, | mainly for simplicity (In programming and in implementation). Bob -- ignore my suggestion (obviously) that you should subscribe to the diy_efi mailing list. For some reason I thought you had posted to the hotrod list, which I also get. Brain fart. --steve From owner-diy_efi Wed Dec 7 17:52:06 1994 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07717; Wed, 7 Dec 94 17:52:06 GMT Received: from uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA07712; Wed, 7 Dec 94 12:51:58 -0500 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by mail.uunet.ca with SMTP id <86903-3>; Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:52:28 -0500 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04729; Wed, 7 Dec 94 12:47:47 EST Received: from odin.prior.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.prior.com via smap (V1.3) id sma004727; Wed Dec 7 12:47:35 1994 Received: from ivan.prior.com by odin.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24060; Wed, 7 Dec 94 12:46:37 EST Received: by ivan.prior.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.prior.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA13205; Wed, 7 Dec 94 12:58:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 7 Dec 1994 12:58:07 -0500 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9412071758.AA13205@ivan.prior.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Introduction... Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I just joined this list, so I thought I'd introduce myself. My name is Mike Sargent and I work for Gallium Software in Nepean Canada (a suburb of Ottawa). I have a B.Math in Computer Science from the University of Waterloo. Since graduating (14 years ago) I've been working for Gallium (formerly Prior Data Sciences). Currently I am a software manager responsible for porting Delrina's FormFlow from Windows to UNIX. I am very experienced in software, specifically real-time data aquisition and control. I have done some hardware design work at the hobby level. My project is to convert my boat from points-and-carb to a modern engine management system. The boat engine is a Mercruiser MC470. The MC470 is a 3.6L I4 developing 170HP (stock). This engine is unique in that the block is not a marinized version of an automobile block (most sterndrives are). This engine is based on 1/2 of a Ford 460 V8. Mercuriser cast a new block using only 4 cylinders, but most of the internal parts are stock 460 parts. In particular, the head is a Ford casting (D3VE if you care). I suspect that the block, crank, cam, and both manifolds are unique, but most other parts are stock 460 parts. I'll know for sure when I strip down the engine (in a couple of weeks). I purchased a spare engine so my experimentation won't leave me high and dry (literally). The ignition system is a standard points system with centrifical (but not vacuum) advance. I put in an MSD-6M-2 this summer which made quite an improvement. The carberator is a 2BBL which probably needs a rebuild. Starting is a bit of a chore, and performance is so-so. I'd really like to replace that with a modern EFI system. I'm going to rebuild the entire engine from the pan up. The long block rebuild will concentrate on increasing efficiency and strength. I would like to have the long block strong enough to handle a blower or nitrous, but those aren't in the immediate plans. My goal is to have an easy to start, reliable, engine ready for next summer. Hopefully it will deliver 1HP per cubic inch (say around 230 horses). BTW: If I try to get any files from Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I recieve the following message: > From Majordomo-Owner@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Wed Dec 7 11:16:56 1994 > Date: Wed, 7 Dec 94 16:09:03 GMT > To: MSargent@gallium.com > From: Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Majordomo file: list 'diy_efi' file 'litlist.ps' > Reply-To: Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > MAIL DELETED BECAUSE OF LACK OF DISK SPACE I check with our system administrator and he doesn't think the disk space problem is at our end. I requested litlist.ps because it was the smallest file, but others fail as well. Does anyone know how I can get access to the files. I would really like to read through archive_current to catch up. Thanks in advance, Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| BIX: mfsargent@bix.com | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+