From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 1 21:51:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA26086; Sat, 1 Apr 95 21:51:08 GMT Received: from sunrise.Stanford.EDU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA26079; Sat, 1 Apr 95 16:51:04 -0500 Received: (from carryer@localhost) by sunrise.Stanford.EDU (8.6.9/8.6.6) id NAA09662; Sat, 1 Apr 1995 13:20:02 -0800 Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 13:20:02 -0800 From: Ed Carryer Message-Id: <199504012120.NAA09662@sunrise.Stanford.EDU> To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <9503312219.AA01826@ivan.gallium.com> (MSargent@gallium.com) Subject: Re: Changing injector pulse rate at idle? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Mike Sargent wrote: This results in a consistant pressure across the injector, as well as providing higher flow as the throttle opens. The reason for varying the fuel pressure with manifold pressure is to mantain a constant delta-P across the injector and therefore remove that as a variable in determining fuel flow rate vs injector pulse-width. It therefore does *not* provide higher flow as the throttle opens, except to the extent that the wide throttle results in a longer pulse-width. BTW: With this set up, you may be able to get away without a fuel return line. Don't try it ! You won't like the results. One of the side benefits of regulating the pressure at the injector rail is that there is a constant flow of fuel through the rail. This fuel is coming from a cooler environment than underhood and therefore cools the fuel rail. Without this flow, and this does happen in some old TBI designs, is that the fuel will actually vaporize in the rail, giving you wildly varying fuel delivery and, at it's most benign, a rough idle (this is mostly an idle problem since that's when underhood temps. are at the peak and the fuel pressure is at it's minimum) This is based on many hours in the hot arizona sun, trying to cure hot fuel problems on a carburetted turbo about 15 years ago. The final solution, at idle and hot start at least, was to add an electric fuel pump to the tank so that fuel was always being pushed, and a return line from the mechanical fuel pump on the block. A return from the carb was the preferred solution, but it wouldn't pass crash testing. ed -- From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 10:00:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA27001; Sun, 2 Apr 95 10:00:41 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA26996; Sun, 2 Apr 95 06:00:36 -0400 Message-Id: <9504021000.AA26996@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 03:02:32 PST 1995 Content-Length: 5466 Content-Type: text From: smtp@wmata.wd.cubic.com X-Smtp-Diagnosis: UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Apparently-To: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field End-of-Header: Content-Type: message Content-Length: 4581 bytes From DIY_EFI Fri Mar 31 15:17:57 0500 1995 remote from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA21688; Fri, 31 Mar 95 20:18:03 GMT Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA21683; Fri, 31 Mar 95 15:17:59 -0500 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01616; Fri, 31 Mar 1995 15:17:57 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 15:17:57 -0500 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9503312017.AA01616@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Shortly, I will be ready to release a beta version of the dynamic engine simulation (EngSim) I have been working on. This first incarnation provides the dynamic position of engine components (crank, cam, piston, etc) as a function of time/rpm. I also have the start of airflow information, but this is not complete. All of the pertinent variables are "settable" using a input card format. These variables include: Initial: time, crankshaft and camshaft angle, rpm, change in rpm, engine temp, etc. Engine: cid, bore, stroke, rod length, fire order, etc, Camshaft: Centerline, lobe separation, duration(s), flowbench CFM's etc. Dynamic Variables: delta time, delta crank angle, total running time, etc. I have also put in a capability for "events". This allows one variable to influence another's value. For instance, it may be desirable to start the simulation at 2000 RPM, then after 5 seconds, go to 3000 RPM at a change rate of 100 RPM/sec, then maintain 3000 RPM for 10 seconds, then change again, etc. One can use the event mechanism to accomplish this. I used events to put in a engine temperature "warm-up" curve which I measured from a real engine. Outputs include a complete "dump" at every "n" crankshaft degrees (user sets "n" and the amount of data dumped), with info on every cylinder (EngSim currently tracks 4, 6, or 8 cylinders with a user-defined firing order), piston postion, speed, acceleration, and swept volume, valve lift/airflow (for each cylinder), engine temperature, etc. One question: Should I post the code directly to the mailgroup, or use Majordomo, or an FTP site (which I will need)? Should I post the user's manual to the mailgroup ahead of time? The code is written in non-ANSI "C", and was compiled successfully using "gcc" on a HP workstation. It should compile on another platform with very little work. On my machine (roughly 100 MIPS) for a 8-cylinder simulated engine, using 1 degree crankshaft increments and 5 seconds simulation time, the execution time was 22 seconds. This should be kept in mind if one wants to use a slower computer. The ultimate goal of EngSim is to provide resonalble simulated electrical outputs (TPS voltage, crankshaft trigger wheel pulses, etc) to "feed" into high-level ECU control algorithms, in order to help debug them. Algorithm control loops can be verified for proper response before implementing them in a real hardware environment. It is better to find an error in a user's control algorithm using EngSim (or equivalent) then discovering it with a running engine. EngSim was not designed to be a precise airflow model, or predict structural problems in an engine. Right now, there is no "hook" to the outside world of the variables at time N. There are many ways to accomplish this. One is to hook directly into the MAIN() routine and compile everything together. One can also dump EngSim output to a file and use the "test" code to read it back in. The way I am looking at is to use TCP/IP Berkeley Sockets and run EngSim as a background process server, and test codes are attached as clients. ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 10:28:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA27051; Sun, 2 Apr 95 10:28:39 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA27044; Sun, 2 Apr 95 06:28:35 -0400 Message-Id: <9504021028.AA27044@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 03:02:37 PST 1995 Content-Length: 4228 Content-Type: text From: smtp@wmata.wd.cubic.com X-Smtp-Diagnosis: UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Apparently-To: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field End-of-Header: Content-Type: message Content-Length: 3343 bytes From DIY_EFI Fri Mar 31 17:19:19 0500 1995 remote from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA22776; Fri, 31 Mar 95 22:45:07 GMT Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA22765; Fri, 31 Mar 95 17:45:04 -0500 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by cicerone.uunet.ca with SMTP id <169190-1>; Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:28:53 -0500 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14093; Fri, 31 Mar 95 17:14:15 EST Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014087; Fri Mar 31 17:14:10 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09927; Fri, 31 Mar 95 16:59:40 EST Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA01826; Fri, 31 Mar 95 17:19:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 17:19:19 -0500 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9503312219.AA01826@ivan.gallium.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Changing injector pulse rate at idle? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The standard Bosch fuel pressure regulators (and probably everone elses) are referenced to manifold pressure. That results in a lower fuel pressure at idle (low manifold pressure), and a higher fuel pressure at WOT (higher manifold pressure). Typically these regulators produce around 30 PSI fuel pressure at idle, and go up to about 45 PSI at WOT. Note that as the intake manifold pressure increased by 15 PSI, so did the fuel pressure. This results in a consistant pressure across the injector, as well as providing higher flow as the throttle opens. There are companies which make "rising rate" fuel pressure regulators. These regulators increase the fuel pressure at a rate greater than the increase in manifold pressure. For example, as the manifold pressure increases from 0 to 15 PSI, the fuel pressure might increase from 30 to 60 PSI, increasing at a 2:1 rate over the manifold pressure. If you really want to go with computer controlled fuel pressure, I would suggest measuring the fuel pressure, feeding that into the DIY ECU, and using a proportional speed controller for DC motors to control the fuel pump. These controllers are used in radio controlled cars, and produce full voltage output, but vary the duty cycle. The good controllers use massive power FETs, and some of the top of the line speed controllers can handle up to 100 Amps. I don't know the current draw of an EFI fuel pump, but I suspect that most of the racing speed controllers would work correctly. BTW: With this set up, you may be able to get away without a fuel return line. Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 10:28:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA27046; Sun, 2 Apr 95 10:28:37 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA27040; Sun, 2 Apr 95 06:28:32 -0400 Message-Id: <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 03:02:34 PST 1995 Content-Length: 2980 Content-Type: text From: smtp@wmata.wd.cubic.com X-Smtp-Diagnosis: UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Apparently-To: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field UX:rmail: ERROR: Cannot append to /var/mail/wwm Return to coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI UX:rmail: INFO: Mail saved in 'dead.letter' UX:rmail: ERROR: Unusable address in 'Sender:' header field End-of-Header: Content-Type: message Content-Length: 2095 bytes From DIY_EFI Fri Mar 31 16:11:18 ET 1995 remote from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA21996; Fri, 31 Mar 95 21:18:36 GMT Received: from igate1.hac.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA21991; Fri, 31 Mar 95 16:18:33 -0500 Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26238; Fri, 31 Mar 95 13:16:40 PST Received: from hyperion.hdos.hac.com by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01HOSCJKNDR400TZ4I@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Fri, 31 Mar 1995 13:17:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from daedalus.hdos.hac.com by hyperion.hdos.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25200; Fri, 31 Mar 95 16:18:22 EST Received: From HDOS_DPC/WORKQUEUE by daedalus.hdos.hac.com via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950331161429.256; 31 Mar 95 16:16:47 +0500 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 16:11:18 ET From: John T Stein Subject: Re: Changing injector pulse rate at idle? To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Message-Id: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Craig wrote: > > > > John > > Another technique for better operation at light loads is to > reduce the fuel pressure - this allows you to keep the pulse width in a > known area of operation, while reducing the amount of fuel put through. > I'd suggest this would normally only be a high/low pressure - not > variable. > > But hey, what would I know, I'm just an EFI hack ;-) > > Cheers, > Craig. > Craig, Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). BTW, we're all hacks here, aren't we?? Thanks, John From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 17:52:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 18:19:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28339; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:19:56 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28334; Sun, 2 Apr 95 14:19:53 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504021819.AA28334@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 18:21:52 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 11:21 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 18:43:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28389; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:43:48 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28384; Sun, 2 Apr 95 14:43:45 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504021843.AA28384@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 18:45:44 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 11:45 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 19:08:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28433; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:08:30 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28428; Sun, 2 Apr 95 15:08:26 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504021908.AA28428@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 19:10:23 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 12:10 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 19:37:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28488; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:37:04 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28483; Sun, 2 Apr 95 15:37:00 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504021937.AA28483@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 19:39:00 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 12:38 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 19:59:51 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28522; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:59:51 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28517; Sun, 2 Apr 95 15:59:48 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504021959.AA28517@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 20:01:41 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:01 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 20:23:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28566; Sun, 2 Apr 95 20:23:38 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28561; Sun, 2 Apr 95 16:23:34 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022023.AA28561@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 20:25:33 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:25 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 20:48:50 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28606; Sun, 2 Apr 95 20:48:50 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28601; Sun, 2 Apr 95 16:48:47 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022048.AA28601@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 20:50:46 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:50 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 21:15:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28648; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:15:16 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28643; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:15:13 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022115.AA28643@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 21:17:12 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 14:17 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 21:48:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28696; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:48:34 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28691; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:48:31 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022148.AA28691@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 21:50:30 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 14:50 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 22:11:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28743; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:11:16 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28738; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:11:11 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022211.AA28738@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 22:13:11 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 15:13 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 22:37:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28777; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:37:04 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28772; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:37:00 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022237.AA28772@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 22:38:58 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 15:38 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 23:06:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28819; Sun, 2 Apr 95 23:06:32 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28814; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:06:28 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022306.AA28814@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 23:08:28 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 16:08 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 2 23:31:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28859; Sun, 2 Apr 95 23:31:13 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28854; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:31:09 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504022331.AA28854@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun Apr 2 23:33:07 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 16:33 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 00:01:57 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28904; Mon, 3 Apr 95 00:01:57 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28899; Sun, 2 Apr 95 20:01:54 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030001.AA28899@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 00:03:53 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:03 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 00:28:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28939; Mon, 3 Apr 95 00:28:24 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28934; Sun, 2 Apr 95 20:28:20 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030028.AA28934@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 00:30:21 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:30 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 01:04:54 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28981; Mon, 3 Apr 95 01:04:54 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28976; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:04:50 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030104.AA28976@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 01:06:50 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:06 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 01:26:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29031; Mon, 3 Apr 95 01:26:32 GMT Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29026; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:26:27 -0400 Received: by shiva.trl.OZ.AU id AA14245 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:26:18 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199504030126.AA14245@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: O2 sensors.. To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 11:26:17 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9504030104.AA28976@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> from "DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" at Apr 3, 95 01:06:50 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 996 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi there, FYI, Seen over on the GN list (Regarding O2 sensors w/leaded fuel): O2 sensors... When that heated sensor finally does fail on leaded fuel clean it real good with brake cleaner and you might revive it and get even more use out of it. However the Zirconia sensor is subject to failure and drift when subjected to lead. The heated Zirconia sensor should last many (10+) times longer than without the heater. NTK/NGK makes a TiO2 (Titania) sensor that is almost completely immune to lead contamination. However, it has a 12mm thread and requires an adaptor and a compensation resistor for proper installation replacing a Zirconia based sensor, unless you can find one of the rare 18mm TiO2s. The TiO2 also has a much smaller sensing head for less exhaust obstruction. I wish I knew part numbers for you all. Call NTK/NGK and maybe they can help (anyone speak Japanese?). The 12mm TiO2 is a current production part for one of the Nissan Pathfinder engines but which one? Craig. From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 01:29:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29046; Mon, 3 Apr 95 01:29:48 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29041; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:29:45 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030129.AA29041@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 01:31:42 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:31 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 01:47:27 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29074; Mon, 3 Apr 95 01:47:27 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29069; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:47:24 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030147.AA29069@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 01:49:24 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:49 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 01:53:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29090; Mon, 3 Apr 95 01:53:34 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29085; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:53:30 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030153.AA29085@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 01:55:30 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 18:55 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:00:51 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29110; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:00:51 GMT Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29105; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:00:48 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #21) id m0rvbR2-000CuWC; Sun, 2 Apr 95 21:00 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: O2 sensors.. To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 21:00:08 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199504030126.AA14245@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> from "Craig Pugsley" at Apr 3, 95 11:26:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 769 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Craig Pugsley writes: > NTK/NGK makes a TiO2 (Titania) sensor that is almost completely > immune to lead contamination. However, it has a 12mm thread and > requires an adaptor and a compensation resistor for proper > installation replacing a Zirconia based sensor, unless you can find > one of the rare 18mm TiO2s. The TiO2 also has a much smaller I had several 18mm TiO2's back in the lab in Austin.... dunno where Wu got them, but I believe they were Bosch sensors and they were in Mopar boxes. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:09:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29140; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:09:30 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29135; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:09:27 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030209.AA29135@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 02:11:27 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:11 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:16:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29156; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:16:16 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29151; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:16:12 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030216.AA29151@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 02:18:11 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:18 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:23:17 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29175; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:23:17 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29170; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:23:14 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030223.AA29170@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 02:25:09 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:25 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:32:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29198; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:32:09 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29193; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:32:06 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030232.AA29193@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 02:34:06 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:34 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:42:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29216; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:42:21 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29211; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:42:18 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030242.AA29211@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 02:44:18 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:44 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:46:22 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29233; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:46:22 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29228; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:46:19 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030246.AA29228@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 02:48:19 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:48 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 02:56:31 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29252; Mon, 3 Apr 95 02:56:31 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29247; Sun, 2 Apr 95 22:56:28 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030256.AA29247@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 02:58:25 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:58 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 03:02:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29273; Mon, 3 Apr 95 03:02:39 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29268; Sun, 2 Apr 95 23:02:36 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030302.AA29268@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 03:04:34 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 20:04 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 03:10:52 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29480; Mon, 3 Apr 95 03:10:52 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29475; Sun, 2 Apr 95 23:10:49 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030310.AA29475@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 03:12:49 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 20:12 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 03:11:20 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29486; Mon, 3 Apr 95 03:11:20 GMT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29476; Sun, 2 Apr 95 23:10:49 -0400 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 95 23:10:49 -0400 From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Subject: Returned mail: Deferred Message-Id: <9504030310.AA29476@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 sh died because of kill (9)--requeueing message ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA29475; Sun, 2 Apr 95 23:10:49 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504030310.AA29475@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon Apr 3 03:12:49 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 20:12 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 12:30:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01358; Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:30:21 GMT Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA01353; Mon, 3 Apr 95 08:30:18 -0400 Received: by gold.tc.umn.edu; Mon, 3 Apr 95 07:30:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:30:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Ryan A Erickson Subject: Re: your mail To: DIY_EFI Cc: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <9504030223.AA29170@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Am I the only person that has received this message about 30 times today (Monday)? On Mon, 3 Apr -1 DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Sun, 2 Apr 95 19:25 PDT > Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) > for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT > Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) > for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 > Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) > id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 > Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) > id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 > Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> > X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 > To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." > <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Length: 630 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 > From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com > X-Mts: smtp > Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > > > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > > > > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was > to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- > able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max > allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the > vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. > > Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. > > Dig > sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com > > > > > From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 13:44:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01943; Mon, 3 Apr 95 13:44:05 GMT Received: from access2.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA01938; Mon, 3 Apr 95 09:44:02 -0400 Received: by access2.digex.net id AA01328 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:43:02 -0400 From: Bill Lewis Message-Id: <199504031343.AA01328@access2.digex.net> Subject: Re: your mail To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:43:01 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Ryan A Erickson" at Apr 3, 95 07:30:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 105 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI You are not alone Ryan I've received over a dozen copies.../Bill -- Bill Lewis - wrl@access.digex.net From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 14:37:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02245; Mon, 3 Apr 95 14:37:25 GMT Received: from igate1.hac.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA02240; Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:37:18 -0400 Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17466; Mon, 3 Apr 95 07:35:21 PDT Received: from hyperion.hdos.hac.com by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01HOW7ICZ7KG00UW4R@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Mon, 03 Apr 1995 07:36:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from by hyperion.hdos.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB25666; Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:38:02 EDT Received: From HDOS_DPC/WORKQUEUE by daedalus.hdos.hac.com via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950403103349.640; 03 Apr 95 10:36:26 +0500 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:33:46 ET From: John T Stein Subject: Re: your mail To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 07:30:11 -0500 (CDT) > From: Ryan A Erickson > Subject: Re: your mail > To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Cc: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-to: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Am I the only person that has received this message about 30 times today > (Monday)? > > No, I got numerous copies too, thought our server developed a stutter! John From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 15:01:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02429; Mon, 3 Apr 95 15:01:01 GMT Received: from localhost.eng.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA02423; Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:00:58 -0400 Message-Id: <9504031500.AA02423@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: your mail Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 11:00:58 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI -------- | > Am I the only person that has received this message about 30 times today | > (Monday)? | > | > | No, I got numerous copies too, thought our server developed a stutter! Rest assured that everyone on the list got all of those copies. I came in late last night and found the endless loop in progress. I un-subscribed the "bad guy" and flush the mail queue... I hope nothing important was in the queue :). John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 17:53:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA03104; Mon, 3 Apr 95 17:53:41 GMT Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA03099; Mon, 3 Apr 95 13:53:38 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06613; Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:53:34 -0400 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:53:34 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9504031753.AA06613@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: DIY_EFI Subject: EngSim (again) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I do not know if this message came out right - I had about 70 "bounced" replies from the EFI mailserver after I sent the message Friday afternoon. So, here is the message again...... - Bruce Shortly, I will be ready to release a beta version of the dynamic engine simulation (EngSim) I have been working on. This first incarnation provides the dynamic position of engine components (crank, cam, piston, etc) as a function of time/rpm. I also have the start of airflow information, but this is not complete. All of the pertinent variables are "settable" using a input card format. These variables include: Initial: time, crankshaft and camshaft angle, rpm, change in rpm, engine temp, etc. Engine: cid, bore, stroke, rod length, fire order, etc, Camshaft: Centerline, lobe separation, duration(s), flowbench CFM's etc. Dynamic Variables: delta time, delta crank angle, total running time, etc. I have also put in a capability for "events". This allows one variable to influence another's value. For instance, it may be desirable to start the simulation at 2000 RPM, then after 5 seconds, go to 3000 RPM at a change rate of 100 RPM/sec, then maintain 3000 RPM for 10 seconds, then change again, etc. One can use the event mechanism to accomplish this. I used events to put in a engine temperature "warm-up" curve which I measured from a real engine. Outputs include a complete "dump" at every "n" crankshaft degrees (user sets "n" and the amount of data dumped), with info on every cylinder (EngSim currently tracks 4, 6, or 8 cylinders with a user-defined firing order), piston postion, speed, acceleration, and swept volume, valve lift/airflow (for each cylinder), engine temperature, etc. One question: Should I post the code directly to the mailgroup, or use Majordomo, or an FTP site (which I will need)? Should I post the user's manual to the mailgroup ahead of time? The code is written in non-ANSI "C", and was compiled successfully using "gcc" on a HP workstation. It should compile on another platform with very little work. On my machine (roughly 100 MIPS) for a 8-cylinder simulated engine, using 1 degree crankshaft increments and 5 seconds simulation time, the execution time was 22 seconds. This should be kept in mind if one wants to use a slower computer. The ultimate goal of EngSim is to provide resonalble simulated electrical outputs (TPS voltage, crankshaft trigger wheel pulses, etc) to "feed" into high-level ECU control algorithms, in order to help debug them. Algorithm control loops can be verified for proper response before implementing them in a real hardware environment. It is better to find an error in a user's control algorithm using EngSim (or equivalent) then discovering it with a running engine. EngSim was not designed to be a precise airflow model, or predict structural problems in an engine. Right now, there is no "hook" to the outside world of the variables at time N. There are many ways to accomplish this. One is to hook directly into the MAIN() routine and compile everything together. One can also dump EngSim output to a file and use the "test" code to read it back in. The way I am looking at is to use TCP/IP Berkeley Sockets and run EngSim as a background process server, and test codes are attached as clients. ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 3 19:43:50 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA03923; Mon, 3 Apr 95 19:43:50 GMT Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA03918; Mon, 3 Apr 95 15:43:46 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA16153 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:43:44 MST Received: from emailchd by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA27460; Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:43:43 MST Received: from wdc.sps.mot.com (margay.sps.mot.com) by emailchd (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.1) id AA18310; Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:43:36 MST Received: by wdc.sps.mot.com (4.1/WDC-1.02) Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:43:34 MST Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 12:43:34 MST From: Mark Shaw Message-Id: <9504031943.AA18095@wdc.sps.mot.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Subscription Types? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Is there a "digest" form of this mailing list where a complete day's postings are collected into one document for transmission? I prefer the digest form to the numerous messages during the day (especially when one of the posters goes amuk:-( Mark From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 01:54:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA05077; Tue, 4 Apr 95 01:54:03 GMT Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA05072; Mon, 3 Apr 95 21:53:53 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11a/8.6.11) id LAA22808 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:10:29 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199504040110.LAA22808@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Changing injector pulse rate at idle? To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:10:28 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "John T Stein" at Mar 30, 95 04:39:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1947 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI John, > In my original posting I had said that the injector pulse period I > had observed at idle was varying between about 40 milliseconds > and about 45 milliseconds with a constant idle speed. > > While a slightly wandering idle speed might cause the pulse period > to drift THROUGH the range from 40 to 45 milliseconds, what I > observed was a period that was EITHER 40 milliseconds OR 45 > milliseconds, with no intermediate values. I would expect idle speed > wander to yield periods BETWEEN these extremes as well as the > extremes themselves. > > The apparantly deterministic nature of the variation in period was what > led me to ask about possible reasons. It seems like the ECM is doing > this intentionally, but for what reason?? > > BTW, the engine in question is throttle-body injected, not port > injected as Robert mentioned in his reponse. While some averaging of > the injector duty cycle, and hence the air/fuel ratio would occur in the > intake manifold, varying the pulse rate still seems like a strange thing > for the ECM to do. > > Any suggestions?? The simple solution would be that 5mS is the limit of your system's resolution (as some earlier has pointed out). From my research into crank speed measurements, it is not unusual to observe repeatable cyclic crank speed fluctuations, but as mentioned, one would expect to observed periods other than exactly 40 or 45 mS. What is the resolution of your measuring device? Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 344 7966 (+613) 344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 13:02:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA08030; Tue, 4 Apr 95 13:02:32 GMT Received: from igate1.hac.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA08025; Tue, 4 Apr 95 09:02:29 -0400 Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06454; Tue, 4 Apr 95 06:00:40 PDT Received: from hyperion.hdos.hac.com by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01HOXIIKW1DC00TZJ8@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Tue, 04 Apr 1995 06:02:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from daedalus.hdos.hac.com by hyperion.hdos.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA25978; Tue, 4 Apr 95 09:03:38 EDT Received: From HDOS_DPC/WORKQUEUE by daedalus.hdos.hac.com via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950404085943.384; 04 Apr 95 09:02:04 +0500 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:59:01 ET From: John T Stein Subject: Re: Changing injector pulse rate at idle? To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Robert Dingli wrote, > > The simple solution would be that 5mS is the limit of your system's > resolution (as some earlier has pointed out). > > From my research into crank speed measurements, it is not unusual to > observe repeatable cyclic crank speed fluctuations, but as mentioned, > one would expect to observed periods other than exactly 40 or 45 mS. > What is the resolution of your measuring device? > > Robert Robert, I made my measurements with an oscilloscope triggered on the injector pulse itself, so the time resolution of the measurement is not a limit. The explanation offered earlier by Michael Sargent and to which you referred is appealing. ASSUMING the engine controller has a "hold off" counter which delays the injector pulse by a specific crank angle after the crank signal, a slight jitter in the crank period COULD cause the controller to change the TIME delay introduced by the "hold off" counter in an effort to keep the delay ANGLE constant. If the LSB of the counter were to be 5 milliseconds.... The question is, is such a "hold-off" counter typically used"?? Thanks for the comments, John From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 13:14:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA08081; Tue, 4 Apr 95 13:14:04 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA08076; Tue, 4 Apr 95 09:14:00 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07006; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:13:56 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19050; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:13:56 -0500 Message-Id: <9504041313.AA19050@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Subscription Types /Alternative pumps In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 03 Apr 95 12:43:34 MST." <9504031943.AA18095@wdc.sps.mot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 04 Apr 95 08:13:49 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Is there a "digest" form of this mailing list where a complete day's > postings are collected into one document for transmission? I prefer > the digest form to the numerous messages during the day (especially when > one of the posters goes amuk:-( I think I need to explain myself here. I did *NOT* send 12+ messages to this list. A mail loop occured at the site of a message that I replied to, causing the message to get repeatedly sent back to the list. I would never "bomb" this or any list like that. I'm currently on 6 or so lists myself, so I know what a pain it can be to weed repeated posts out of an inbox. With that cleared up, I'll get back to EFI. Is anyone familiar with the GM alternative fuel vehicles? I've been looking for an in-tank fuel pump with better than 110 GPH @ 50 psi, and it seems that one of the pumps from an alcohol fueled vehicle may have similar (or better) specs. Thanks, and apologies for the mail problems. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 17:04:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11030; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:04:39 GMT Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA11025; Tue, 4 Apr 95 13:04:36 -0400 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by cicerone.uunet.ca with SMTP id <167063-2>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:51:47 -0400 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18799; Tue, 4 Apr 95 12:44:35 EDT Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018797; Tue Apr 4 12:44:08 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13818; Tue, 4 Apr 95 12:29:11 EDT Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA20485; Tue, 4 Apr 95 12:49:17 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 12:49:17 -0400 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9504041649.AA20485@ivan.gallium.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Driving an MSD Ignition Box Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Probably the easy way would be to call Autotronics and ask them. I'd be > curious to find out what it takes to fire those. Good Luck! So, I called MSD. They're very cooperative. The white wire (points) trigger is connected to a 40 ohm pull-up to +12 volts. Connecting a transistor between the white wire and ground will trigger the box. The transistor should be rated between 30 and 50 volts, and will need to be able to handle at least 300 mA. The engineer I talked to suggested an MJ520, but the requirements are so easy to meet that there are a large number of transistors that will do the job. Because the input is purely resistive, there is no need to add additional components to handle back EMF, etc. As for the trigger pulse, he suggested that the pulse be a positive going pulse of at least 0.5 mS duration. The duration is needed because (as Bruce suggested) there is a debounce circuit in the MSD box. So, normally the trigger will be at ground level, going high when the box is to fire, held high for at least 0.5 mS, and then returns to ground. Ed Lansinger was asking for some more information about the MSD boxes, so I'll try to summarize some of the information from the catalog. Specifications (for MSD-6A, -6AL, and -6M-2): Operating Voltage: 12 VDC Operating Current: 10 A @ 10,000 RPM Maximum RPM: 10,000 (8 cyl) Spark Duration: 20 degrees (8 cyl) Energy Output: 600 milli-joules (Cap. Discharge) Output Voltage (to coil): 450 V Output Voltage (coil out): 40 kV Weight: Varies by model between 2 3/4 lbs and 4 lbs Size: Varies by model; max. 8"L x 4"W x 2 3/4"H A scope trace diagram (without units) shows the multi-spark output versus the output of a conventional ignition. The MSD box is shown as producing 5 sparks for each one produced by the conventional ignition, at 1,000 RPM. Each of the multiple sparks is shown as having similar voltage and duration to the conventional spark. As RPM increases, the number of sparks decrease. I can't find anything in the literature to confirm this, but I have heard it said that above 3,000 RPM, the MSD boxes are only giving one spark. From personal experience (I installed an MSD-6M-2 in my boat), they are easy to install, and work very well. I had a bad case of "loading up", where the engine ran very poorly after idling for a while. The MSD box cleared this up completely. YMMV For reference, MSD is manufactured by Autotronic Controls. They also manufacture a broad line of other ignition and fuel injection components. Autotronic Controls Corporation 1490 Henry Brennan Drive El Paso, Texas 79936 (915)857-5200 (915)857-3344 (FAX) (915)855-7123 (Customer Service Tech Line) +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 19:29:36 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11433; Tue, 4 Apr 95 19:29:36 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA11428; Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:29:33 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HOXW1PMM5SD6HXIU@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Tue, 04 Apr 1995 12:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F819E1B@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 04 Apr 95 12:29:31 PDT Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 12:29:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box To: "diy_efi (postings)" Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Message-Id: <2F819E1B@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 29 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI This is my first posting to diy_efi. > A scope trace diagram (without units) shows the multi-spark output > versus the output of a conventional ignition. The MSD box is shown as > producing 5 sparks for each one produced by the conventional ignition, > at 1,000 RPM. Each of the multiple sparks is shown as having similar > voltage and duration to the conventional spark. As RPM increases, the > number of sparks decrease. I can't find anything in the literature to > confirm this, but I have heard it said that above 3,000 RPM, the MSD > boxes are only giving one spark. I did some measurements a while back on an MSD 6A. I looked at the output with an oscilloscope while varying the input frequency (RPM) with a function generator. I plotted the number of sparks vs. RPM for a 4 cylinder engine. I'll post the data hopefully tomorrow. As I recall, the number of multiple sparks drops off quite quickly as RPM rises. And, compared to 4 cylinder applications, 8 cylinder applications will drop off twice as fast. The only way I see of improving this is to use two MSDs instead of one, with each firing half of the cylinders. I also have a schematic of the MSD 6A, obtained the brute force way (reverse engineering). It is consists completely of discretes, no ICs. I guess I could send someone a copy if they were interested. Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 19:30:52 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11446; Tue, 4 Apr 95 19:30:52 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA11441; Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:30:50 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HOXW38THXSD6HFD5@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Tue, 04 Apr 1995 12:30:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F819E65@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 04 Apr 95 12:30:45 PDT Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: DIY_EFI archive To: "diy_efi (postings)" Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Message-Id: <2F819E65@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 8 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Is there a diy_efi archive that I can download? I am a new subscriber, and would like to read past notes so I become familiar with past topics. Thanks, Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 20:04:11 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12119; Tue, 4 Apr 95 20:04:11 GMT Received: from access3.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA12114; Tue, 4 Apr 95 16:04:08 -0400 Received: by access3.digex.net id AA25329 (5.67b8/IDA-1.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:03:49 -0400 From: Bill Lewis Message-Id: <199504042003.AA25329@access3.digex.net> Subject: Is Jacob's Electronics box snake oil? To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 16:03:49 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9504041649.AA20485@ivan.gallium.com> from "Michael F. Sargent" at Apr 4, 95 12:49:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 249 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Does anybody know what that gadget made by Jacob's Electronics actually does? It uses a ground sense wire that is supposed to be connected near the center of a V8's intake manifold. Is it snake oil? .../Bill -- Bill Lewis - wrl@access.digex.net From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 21:26:46 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12602; Tue, 4 Apr 95 21:26:46 GMT Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA12597; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:26:42 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:21:48 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.2; from fridman@localhost) id ; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:26:01 -0600 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 15:26:01 -0600 Message-Id: <199504042126.PAA02959@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: DIY_EFI archive Cc: BZUBLIN@po2.gi.com Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > Is there a diy_efi archive that I can download? I am a new subscriber, and > would like to read past notes so I become familiar with past topics. > If you have access to a WWW viewer, try http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~fridman/diy_efi. Its the diy_efi www site. If not, then send mail to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu with the words "index diy_efi" as the body of the message. This will return all available articles. Then use "get diy_efi
" to retrieve it from the mail server. RF. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Fridman fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Dept. of Computer Science http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/ University of Calgary Calgary, Alberta voice (403) 220-5104 Canada fax (403) 284-4707 From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 21:29:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12698; Tue, 4 Apr 95 21:29:19 GMT Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA12692; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:29:16 -0400 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by cicerone.uunet.ca with SMTP id <168264-3>; Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:23:56 -0400 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20342; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:17:09 EDT Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020339; Tue Apr 4 17:16:59 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16904; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:02:01 EDT Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA22929; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:22:11 -0400 Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 17:22:11 -0400 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9504042122.AA22929@ivan.gallium.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Is Jacob's Electronics box snake oil? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Jacob's makes a whole bunch of boxes and gadgets. Can you give a few more details? I have their catalog and "The Drs. Guide ..." at home. I'll bring them in tomorrow. Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 21:47:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12856; Tue, 4 Apr 95 21:47:24 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA12851; Tue, 4 Apr 95 17:47:21 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HOY0TLX6WGD6IFCZ@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Tue, 04 Apr 1995 14:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F81BE3B@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 04 Apr 95 14:46:35 PDT Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 14:47:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: DIY_EFI archive To: fridman Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" , DIY_EFI Message-Id: <2F81BE3B@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 16 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > If you have access to a WWW viewer, try > http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~fridman/diy_efi. > Its the diy_efi www site. I am able to view this site with my WWW viewer (Netscape). However, when I click on the "archives" icon, I get the following response: The requested URL /~fridman/diy_efi/archive.html was not found on this server. Is it down? Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 22:19:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12949; Tue, 4 Apr 95 22:19:10 GMT Received: from gatekeeper.nsc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA12944; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:19:06 -0400 Received: from voder.nsc.com by gatekeeper.nsc.com (5.65/fma-120691) with SMTP; id AA04502 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:19:00 -0700 Received: from baghwan.nsc.com by voder.nsc.com (5.61/1.34) with SMTP id AA28705 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:18:56 -0700 Received: from naxion.nsc.com by baghwan.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA26235 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:18:54 PDT Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 15:18:54 PDT From: barrett@baghwan.nsc.com (Chip Barrett-Smith 8-582-0742) Message-Id: <9504042218.AA26235@baghwan.nsc.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Bryan, I'd love to get a copy of the schematic if you can email it. Chip barrett@baghwan.nsc.com From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 4 22:37:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA13008; Tue, 4 Apr 95 22:37:34 GMT Received: from elvis-e4.viewlogic.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA13003; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:37:31 -0400 Received: from falcon2 (falcon2.viewlogic.com) by elvis.viewlogic.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27012; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:21:00 EDT Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:20:59 EDT From: matthew@viewlogic.com (Matthew Wallis) Message-Id: <9504042221.AA27012@elvis.viewlogic.com> Received: by falcon2 (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00930; Tue, 4 Apr 95 18:39:23 EDT To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > I also have a schematic of the MSD 6A, obtained the brute force way > (reverse engineering). It is consists completely of discretes, no > ICs. I guess I could send someone a copy if they were interested. > > > Bryan Zublin > General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA > bzublin@gi.com Could you send me a copy. The best way would be a postscript file. Thanks - Matthew From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 01:25:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA13470; Wed, 5 Apr 95 01:25:09 GMT Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA13463; Tue, 4 Apr 95 21:25:04 -0400 Received: from biscuit-tin.ee.mu.OZ.AU (dingli@biscuit-tin.ee.mu.OZ.AU [128.250.75.26]) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11a/8.6.11) with ESMTP id LAA18911 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:25:01 +1000 From: robert dingli Received: (dingli@localhost) by biscuit-tin.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.10) id LAA16519 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:21:30 +1000 Message-Id: <199504050121.LAA16519@biscuit-tin.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 11:21:29 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <2F819E1B@gismtpgate.gi.com> from "Zublin, Bryan" at Apr 4, 95 12:29:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2954 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi guys, All this talk about the MSD multi spark system reminds me about a VERY interesting paper on the topic, > > A scope trace diagram (without units) shows the multi-spark output > > versus the output of a conventional ignition. The MSD box is shown as > > producing 5 sparks for each one produced by the conventional ignition, > > at 1,000 RPM. Each of the multiple sparks is shown as having similar > > voltage and duration to the conventional spark. As RPM increases, the > > number of sparks decrease. I can't find anything in the literature to > > confirm this, but I have heard it said that above 3,000 RPM, the MSD > > boxes are only giving one spark. > > I did some measurements a while back on an MSD 6A. I looked at the output > with an oscilloscope while varying the input frequency (RPM) with a > function generator. I plotted the number of sparks vs. RPM for a > 4 cylinder engine. I'll post the data hopefully tomorrow. As I recall, > the number of multiple sparks drops off quite quickly as RPM rises. And, > compared to 4 cylinder applications, 8 cylinder applications will drop > off twice as fast. The only way I see of improving this is to use two MSDs > instead of one, with each firing half of the cylinders. > I have an SAE paper here somewhere (details to be posted upon discovery) by researchers at Toyota and Nippondenso. It is a combination inductive/CDI ignition system which has the characteristics of a huge initial spark voltage (CDI) and long duration (inductive). One of the side benefits is that the inductive and CDI sections of the circuit can be charged while the other is discharging. With suitable control, this allows a continous discharge - ie no charge time delay between sparks. The setup called for a separate coil from the main tranformer coil to store the inductive energy, and of course a capacitor for the CDI energy. Both sub sections then discharged through a single transformer coil. > I also have a schematic of the MSD 6A, obtained the brute force way > (reverse engineering). It is consists completely of discretes, no > ICs. I guess I could send someone a copy if they were interested. > I, for one, would be very interested to see how simple the system actually is. I have the capability to multi spark my current system but will wait until I ditch the dizzy totally. The small cap (originally designed for points) tends to crossfire at the slightest provocation. Robert 'looking for that paper' Dingli -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 344 7966 (+613) 344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 03:06:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA13731; Wed, 5 Apr 95 03:06:12 GMT Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA13726; Tue, 4 Apr 95 23:05:48 -0400 Received: by shiva.trl.OZ.AU id AA29272 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:05:32 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199504050305.AA29272@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Primarys and secondarys.. How? To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 13:05:29 +1000 (EST) Cc: r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au, c.pugsley@shiva.trl.OZ.AU X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 933 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi there, While I'm directing this question to Robert, I'll put it in the public forum for other comments.. With an engine with a primary and secondary stage, do you need different fuel curves for the primary and secondary (IE in a Mazda rotary, where the primary and secondary have different port timing (~= two intake valves in a piston engine following different cam profiles). IE can you have '4 barrel injection', or is it easier to run the primary and secondary stages in parallell (ie a 'weber' throttle body with primarys and secondarys from each rotor being fed by one throat on the carb). Will the extra effort of setting up a primary and secondary be worthwhile in terms of drivability/power (Which is the case with a carb, but that's probably more of a gas speed thing in that case). Cheers, Craig. (PS- Rob, there is an RX3 in the latest FF+R with a wolf 3d in it. Writeup seemed pretty positive about the system). From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 03:49:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA13789; Wed, 5 Apr 95 03:49:43 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA13784; Tue, 4 Apr 95 23:49:37 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HOYDHO9R9SD6IC7B@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Tue, 04 Apr 1995 20:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F82134C@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 04 Apr 95 20:49:32 PDT Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 20:50:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: EFI Books and Papers in my Library To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F82134C@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 192 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I thought that I would make a list of the books and papers that I own that are related to EFI. I think that this can be added to the reference list; some of these are duplicates. Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com BOOKS Sorted by Author. Adler, Ulrich, _Electronic Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda Closed-Loop Control, L-Jetronic: Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH, copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226008-4. (yellow book, 20 numbered pages; this is written on the back cover: "English translation of the German edition dated: September 1985.") Adler, Ulrich, _Mechanical Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda Closed-Loop Control, K-Jetronic: Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH, copyright 1981, ISBN 1-85-226030-0. (yellow book, 24 numbered pages; this is written on the back cover: "English translation of the 2nd German edition dated: September 1985.") Adler, Ulrich, _Combined Ignition and Fuel-Injection System with Lambda Closed-Loop Control, Motronic: Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH, copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226009-2. (yellow book, 44 numbered pages; this is written on the back cover: "English translation of the 2nd German edition from September 1985.") _Bosch Electronic Fuel Injection Systems, Shop Manual_, , Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1986, ISBN 0-87938-237-6. (maintenance manual for Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Datsun, Mercedes, Opel, Porsche, Renault, Saab, Volkswagen, and Volvo, model years 1970 - 1979). Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection Troubleshooting Guide: Import Vehicles_, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona, 1989, ISBN 1-55561-031-5. (chapter contents include Bosch D, K, KE, L, LH, and Digifant (Japanese and European); Daihatsu; Honda PGM-FI; Isuzu I-TEC; Lucas-Bosch; Mazda RE-EGI; Mitsubishi ECI and MPFI; Nissan TBI; Subaru SPFI; this book has the EFI system wiring diagrams of many import cars.) Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection Troubleshooting Guide: Domestic Vehicles, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona, 1991, ISBN 1-55561-032-3. (chapter contents include AMC/Jeep; AMC; AMC/RENIX; AMC/RENIX II; Bosch; Chrysler; Eagle; Ford; GM; this book has the EFI system wiring diagrams of many domestic cars.) Norbye, Jan P., _Automotive Fuel Injection Systems, A Technical Guide_, Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1981, ISBN 0-87938-139-6. (primarily a history and description of fuel injection systems, includes chapters on Bosch Mechanical Systems for Mercedes-Benz Cars, Kugelfischer Fuel Injection, Rochester Fuel Injection, The Bendix Electrojector, Cadillac and the Bendix Analog and Digital Fuel-Injection Systems, Bosch L- and K- Jetronic, Motronic, Mono-Jetronic, Lucas Digital Fuel Injection, Chrysler's Single-Point Injection; Ford's Electronic Engine Control System, Zenith Fuel-Management Systems, Fiat/Marelli Experimental System, Bosch / Pierburg Electronic Carburetor, Aftermarket Fuel Injection) Ribbens, William B., Mansour, Norman P., et al, _Understanding Automotive Electronics_, third edition, Howard W. Sams & Company, Indianapolis, Indiana, 1988, ISBN 0-672-27064-6. (Contents includes Automotive Fundamentals, The Systems Approach to Control and Instrumentation, Electronics Fundamentals, Microcomputer Instrumentation and Control, Sensors and Actuators, The Basics of Electronic Engine Control, Digital Engine Control System, Vehicle Motion Control, Automotive Instrumentation, Diagnostics, Future Automotive Electronics Systems) Watson, Ben, _How to Tune and Modify Ford Fuel Injection_, Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1992, ISBN 0-87938-621-5. ("For Fuel-Injected Ford Cars and Trucks with EEC III and EEC IV Engine Maintenance Systems," chapters include History of Fuel Injection, Brief Overview of Electronics, Tools, Tuning the Fuel-injected Engine, Automotive Emissions, EEC III, EEC IV Components and Operation, EEC IV Onboard Diagnostics, Troubleshooting by Symptom, Performance Modifications, Legalities of Engine Modification; the performance chapter is weak, only 10 pages). Watson, Ben, _How to Repair and Modify Chevrolet Fuel Injection, Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1991, ISBN 0-87938-502-2. SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS (SAE) TECHNICAL PAPERS Sorted by SAE publication number. Matsubara, Shoji; Kuwahara, Takashi; Gerhard, F. Bruce; _On-Chip Realtime Operating System for the Engine Control System_, SAE paper 900780, 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from NEC Electronics. Discusses the "NEC uPD78602 16-Bit Single-Chip Microcomputer that incorporates a real-time operating system as firmware (alias Realtime Task Manager: RTM) as an example.") Dues, Steven M.; Adams, Joseph M., Shinkle, George A., _Combustion Knock Sensing: Sensor Selection and Application Issues_, SAE paper 900488, 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Delco Remy Div., General Motors Corp. This paper discusses basic knock phenomena, sensor types, application issues, process flowchart, location selection, sensor selection criteria, sensor comparisons, popular misconceptions.) Arai, Nobukatsu; Sekine, Yoshihito; et al., _Advanced Design for Bypass Type of Hot-Wire Air Flow Meter_, SAE paper 900259, 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (Reprinted from SP-805 - _Sensors and Actuators 1990_. Authors are from Hitachi. This paper discusses a bypass type MAF meter integrated into a throttle body.) Takahashi, Ken; Tsuruoka, Shigeo; Nishimura, Yutaka; et al., _Hot Wire Air Flow Meter for Engine Control Systems_, SAE paper 900258, 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Hitachi Ltd. This paper discusses a new type of wire probe, resulting in improved response time.) Rohde, Siegfried, and Philipp, Matthias, _Combined Boost Pressure and Knock Control System for S.I. Engines Including 3-D Maps for Control Parameters_, SAE paper 890459, 1989, ISSN 0148-7191. (Reprinted from SP-780, _Power Boost: Light, Medium, and Heavy Duty Engines_. Authors are from Bosch. This paper discusses the Motronic EFI system with knock sensor and turbo boost pressure control; good info on control methods.) Nishimura, Yutaka; Ohyama, Yoshishige; et al., _A Hot Wire Air Flow Meter for Intake Air Flow Measurement_, SAE paper 890301, 1989, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Hitachi, Ltd. This paper "outlines the development status of the Hitachi hot wire air flow meter." Also covered are "approaches to improve response time" and "to avoid deterioration in the measurement accuracy caused by dirt deposits on the hot wire probe.") Tanimoto, Kohji; Bessho, Mikio; Inada, Masanori; _Switching Controlled Thermal Mass Air Flow Sensor_, SAE paper 890298, 1989, ISSN 0148-7191. (Reprinted from SP-771 - _Sensors and Actuators: 1989_. Authors are from Mitsubishi Electric. This paper discusses a typical MAF meter using a switching transistor to supply the voltage to the heated wire. This reduces power consumption. The output of the meter is a digital signal, with the pulse width related to the flow rate. One advantage of this type of meter is that the EFI computer does not need an analog to digital converter to acquire the data - it can use a digital counter.) Sumai, Jaihind, and Sauer, Rudolf, _Bosch Mass Air Flow Meter: Status and Further Aspects_, SAE paper 840137, 1984. (The authors are from Bosch. This paper discusses flow passages, air flow around the thermal element, use of wire grid in the air flow stream, mechanical forces on the sensor element, dirt build up on the thermal sensor element, response rate, velocity profiles, and influence of altitude on intake manifold pulsations. Actual test data is provided.) Nishimura, Yutaka; Ohyama, Yoshishige; Sasayama, Takao; et al., _Hot Wire Air Flow Meter for Engine Control System_, SAE paper 830615, 1983, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Hitachi Ltd. This paper describes the Hitachi type MAF, which measures air flow in a bypass air passage. I believe that this type of MAF is being used on Ford cars, starting with the Mustang GT in 1987.) Sauer, Rudolf, _Hot Wire Air Mass Meter - A New Air Flow Meter for Gasoline Fuel Injection Systems_, SAE paper 800468, 1980, ISSN 0148-7191. (The author is from Bosch. This paper appears to be one of the first on MAF meters - the classical Bosch design with the thin platinum wire in the direct air flow. It has many equations explaining its operation.) From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 03:55:22 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA13806; Wed, 5 Apr 95 03:55:22 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA13801; Tue, 4 Apr 95 23:55:19 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HOYDORPSDCD6HI7F@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Tue, 04 Apr 1995 20:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F8214A3@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 04 Apr 95 20:55:15 PDT Date: Tue, 04 Apr 1995 20:56:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: SAE papers on sale To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F8214A3@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 14 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI It's good to see that the SAE has books on sale - at a discount. Interesting titles: Engine Management & Driveline Controls, SP-788, list $62, sale $15. Power Boost, SP-818, list $45, sale $29. Sensors and Actuators 1991, P242, list $85, sale $29. Sensors and Actuators 1990, SP-805, list $64, sale $39. Sensors and Actuators 1989, SP-771, list $70, sale $19. Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 10:43:31 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15225; Wed, 5 Apr 95 10:43:31 GMT Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA15220; Wed, 5 Apr 95 06:43:26 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id UAA13966; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:42:24 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199504051042.UAA13966@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Primarys and secondarys.. How? To: c.pugsley@trl.oz.au (Craig Pugsley) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 20:42:24 +1000 (EST) Cc: DIY_EFI (DIY_EFI ) In-Reply-To: <199504050305.AA29272@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> from "Craig Pugsley" at Apr 5, 95 01:05:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2309 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Craig asks, > > With an engine with a primary and secondary stage, do you need different > fuel curves for the primary and secondary (IE in a Mazda rotary, where > the primary and secondary have different port timing (~= two intake > valves in a piston engine following different cam profiles). > First, some background .. Rotaries tend to have rather peculiar fuelling requirements. While parallel injection once per revolution works fine in a piston engine, we found that it resulted in unequal fuelling for a rotary. Each rotor draws in air every revolution, 180 deg out of phase of the other, and produces relatively large pressure pulsations in the intake manifold. As a result the fuel has the be injected either twice per revolution or sequentially. We settled on sequential injection for the primaries to avoid injector cut-off problems near idle and the larger non-linearity in fuel flow near 100% duty cycle. The single secondary output (which is used on only a fraction of applications) injects twice as often to provide equal fuelling. As for fuel curves, the speed density mapping is calibrated empirically. This system lumps the injector response, engine fuel requirements and desired AFR as one overall adjustable parameter for each speed and load combination (128 in all). As long as the secondary port always opens at the same (or similar) rpm, it is simply up to the user to incorporate any no-linearities into the map. > > (PS- Rob, there is an RX3 in the latest FF+R with a wolf 3d in it. > Writeup seemed pretty positive about the system). > The efi system used is one of our earliest prototypes. Since then, we have added a fully mapped ignition system to the ECU which independently controls the coils for distributorless rotary ignition with separate leading and trailing adjustments. Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 344 7966 (+613) 344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 13:49:20 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15604; Wed, 5 Apr 95 13:49:20 GMT Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA15598; Wed, 5 Apr 95 09:48:12 -0400 Received: from achill.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (achill [134.169.34.18]) by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA09012 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:47:08 +0200 Received: (from knick@localhost) by achill.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) id PAA21400 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:47:07 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199504051347.PAA21400@achill.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:47:06 MET DST In-Reply-To: <2F819E1B@gismtpgate.gi.com> from "Zublin, Bryan" at Apr 4, 95 12:29:00 pm Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI wrote: > > I also have a schematic of the MSD 6A, obtained the brute force way > (reverse engineering). It is consists completely of discretes, no > ICs. I guess I could send someone a copy if they were interested. > Bryan, I would like to get a copy, if possible. If there are more requests, maybe you could make it available via an ftp site? Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 14:10:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15667; Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:10:55 GMT Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA15662; Wed, 5 Apr 95 10:10:51 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14598; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:10:48 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:10:48 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9504051410.AA14598@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Is Jacob's Electronics box snake oil? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Yes, it is nothing but a big globual of thick, yellow, rattlesnake oil. The dyno tests that I personally say performed on a chevy 350, mopar 440, and toyota 22R showed no improvement over a cheap $20.00 capacitive-discharge unit. Jacob is a marketing genius, but if you go to the track, how many cars do you see with jacobs stuff? None - almost all racers use the MSD system. - Bruce From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 15:13:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15993; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:13:56 GMT Received: from moontarz.nuance.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA15988; Wed, 5 Apr 95 11:13:53 -0400 Received: by moontarz.nuance.com.Nuance.Com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1) id OAA18121; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:10:30 GMT Message-Id: <199504051410.OAA18121@moontarz.nuance.com.Nuance.Com> Subject: re: msd schematics To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 10:10:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Kenneth C. King" In-Reply-To: <199504051347.PAA21400@achill.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> from "Jens Knickmeyer" at Apr 5, 95 03:47:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 543 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > wrote: > > I also have a schematic of the MSD 6A, obtained the brute force way > > (reverse engineering). It is consists completely of discretes, no > > ICs. I guess I could send someone a copy if they were interested. > > Bryan, > I would like to get a copy, if possible. If there are more requests, > maybe you could make it available via an ftp site? > > Jens Knickmeyer greetings: add me to the 'meeee tooooo!' chorus. i am most interested in the information on how to build such a creature. later, kc From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 15:24:18 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16215; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:24:18 GMT Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA16210; Wed, 5 Apr 95 11:24:14 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:18:50 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.2; from fridman@localhost) id ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:23:07 -0600 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:23:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199504051523.JAA05333@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > > > I also have a schematic of the MSD 6A, obtained the brute force way > > (reverse engineering). It is consists completely of discretes, no > > ICs. I guess I could send someone a copy if they were interested. > > > > > > Bryan Zublin > > General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA > > bzublin@gi.com Send me a copy and I'll make it available through the diy_efi www server. RF. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Fridman fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca Dept. of Computer Science http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/ University of Calgary Calgary, Alberta voice (403) 220-5104 Canada fax (403) 284-4707 From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 16:32:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16654; Wed, 5 Apr 95 16:32:02 GMT Received: from chaph.usc.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA16649; Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:31:57 -0400 Received: from [128.125.8.60] (edscott.usc.edu [128.125.8.60]) by chaph.usc.edu (8.6.10/8.6.4) with SMTP id JAA13233 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:31:55 -0700 Message-Id: <199504051631.JAA13233@chaph.usc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 09:36:23 +0530 To: DIY_EFI From: eherbulo@scf.usc.edu (Ed Herbulock) Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > wrote: >> >> I also have a schematic of the MSD 6A, obtained the brute force way >> (reverse engineering). It is consists completely of discretes, no >> ICs. I guess I could send someone a copy if they were interested. >> > >Bryan, Add me to the list of people requesting the MSD 6A schematic. Thanks, Ed Herbulock eherbulo@scf.usc.edu Long Beach, CA From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 16:33:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16703; Wed, 5 Apr 95 16:33:15 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA16687; Wed, 5 Apr 95 12:33:10 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HOZ46CFTGGD6I71Z@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Wed, 05 Apr 1995 09:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F82C63F@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Wed, 05 Apr 95 09:33:03 PDT Date: Wed, 05 Apr 1995 09:32:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: MSD 6A schematic To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F82C63F@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 12 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I have gotten many requests for the MSD 6A schematic that I have. It is currently in hand drawn form. I need to enter it into some kind of CAD or drawing program so that it can be transferred electronically. I have AutoCad (DOS and Windows versions) and also the Visio drawing package. Neither is great for doing schematics, but they work. They can output postscript and other formats. I also have ORCAD, but have never used it. Does anyone have any preferences? BZ Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA , USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 17:01:26 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA17194; Wed, 5 Apr 95 17:01:26 GMT Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA17189; Wed, 5 Apr 95 13:01:22 -0400 Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA22430; Wed, 5 Apr 95 13:01:18 EDT Date: Wed, 5 Apr 95 13:01:18 EDT Message-Id: <9504051701.AA22430@oasys.dt.navy.mil> From: "Robert Gallant" To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: MSD 6A schematic Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI In message <2F82C63F@gismtpgate.gi.com> writes: > > I have gotten many requests for the MSD 6A schematic that I have. It is > currently in hand drawn form. I need to enter it into some kind of CAD or > drawing program so that it can be transferred electronically. I have > AutoCad (DOS and Windows versions) and also the Visio drawing package. > Neither is great for doing schematics, but they work. They can output > postscript and other formats. I also have ORCAD, but have never used it. > Does anyone have any preferences? BZ How about turning the schematic into a pict or tiff or gif... after drawing it in what ever package you like. I don't have any of the packages you mentioned, but can open just about any kind of picture. Thanks again Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 18:06:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA17653; Wed, 5 Apr 95 18:06:02 GMT Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA17648; Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:05:56 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA16172; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:05:49 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:05:49 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9504051805.AA16172@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: MSD 6A schematic Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I think that postscript would be fine. If you can scan the hand-drawn schematic into a file, that would be just as fine. Remember, we are all "mooching" off of you, so we will take whatever form we can get. - Bruce From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 19:23:46 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA18259; Wed, 5 Apr 95 19:23:46 GMT Received: from ux4.cso.uiuc.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA18254; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:23:43 -0400 Received: (from cburian@localhost) by ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id OAA01470 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:23:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199504051923.OAA01470@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu> Subject: archive? To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 14:23:39 -0500 (CDT) From: (Chris Burian) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 359 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi, I just joined the list. Is there an archive? Is discussion of distributorless ignition strictly off limits? Sometime in the next couple years I want to build a port fuel injection system and distributorless ignition for a pontiac 400 and/or for a suzuki 1100, my two favorite powerplants. I'm an EE student at the Univ. of Illinois. Chris Burian From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 19:27:27 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA18275; Wed, 5 Apr 95 19:27:27 GMT Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA18270; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:27:24 -0400 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by cicerone.uunet.ca with SMTP id <168641-3>; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:28:23 -0400 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22069; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:07:03 EDT Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma022067; Wed Apr 5 15:06:39 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28906; Wed, 5 Apr 95 14:51:34 EDT Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA28381; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:11:50 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 15:11:50 -0400 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9504051911.AA28381@ivan.gallium.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: MSD 6A schematic Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > I have gotten many requests for the MSD 6A schematic that I have. Why not generate a PostScript file (like the schematics were) and then most people will be able to at least print it? Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 5 23:44:59 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19424; Wed, 5 Apr 95 23:44:59 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19419; Wed, 5 Apr 95 19:44:56 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504052344.AA19419@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed Apr 5 22:46:31 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Wed, 5 Apr 95 15:46 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 00:29:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19697; Thu, 6 Apr 95 00:29:37 GMT Received: from pine.cse.nau.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19692; Wed, 5 Apr 95 20:29:35 -0400 Received: (from met@localhost) by pine.cse.nau.edu (8.6.11/NAU-2.2) id RAA05720 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:29:29 -0700 Message-Id: <199504060029.RAA05720@pine.cse.nau.edu> From: met@pine.cse.nau.edu (MTN-KAT) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 17:29:29 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" "MSD 6A schematic" (Apr 5, 9:32am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: MSD 6A schematic Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I don't suppose that you have access to Pspice, do you? I'd be willing to pay for postage to send me a hard-copy if something electronic doesn't come along. Millam From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 00:42:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19752; Thu, 6 Apr 95 00:42:09 GMT Received: from wmata.wd.Cubic.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA19747; Wed, 5 Apr 95 20:42:06 -0400 From: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <9504060042.AA19747@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!DIY_EFI To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed Apr 5 23:43:44 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 End-Of-Header: Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 2 'Problem with mailfile') En-Route-To: wwm Content-Length: 1934 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by wmata.wd.cubic.com; Wed, 5 Apr 95 16:43 PDT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for wwm@wmata.wd.cubic.com id AA28293; Sun, 2 Apr 95 17:52:10 GMT Received: from hwking.cca.rockwell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA28288; Sun, 2 Apr 95 13:52:03 -0400 Received: by hwking.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17966; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:59 -0500 Received: by star.cca.rockwell.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15997; Sun, 2 Apr 1995 12:51:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9504021751.AA15997@star.cca.rockwell.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 02 Apr 95 03:02:34 PST." <9504021028.AA27040@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 02 Apr 95 12:51:51 -0500 From: sdbartho@cca.rockwell.com X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Sounds like a SUPER idea to me, do you happen to know if anyone makes > electrically commandable regulators? If not I guess I could try to > adapt a vacuum-servo type (ugh). > I was considering making a similar system for a GM regulator. My idea was to use a GM electronically controlled wastegate bleeder valve and an adjust- able fuel pressure regulator. Use the the adjustment screw to set the max allowable fuel pressure, and then use the bleeder to pull off some of the vacuum/boost signal until you reached the desired pressure. Kinda ugly but it seems like it should work. Dig sdbartho@hwking.cca.rockwell.com From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 01:06:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20049; Thu, 6 Apr 95 01:06:08 GMT Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA20044; Wed, 5 Apr 95 21:06:03 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17583; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:06:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:06:00 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9504060106.AA17583@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: DIY_EFI Subject: upcomimg EngSim Doc Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I am posting the user's manual to the first incarnation of EngSim in a subsequent mail message. I have an anonymous ftp site set up with a very early version of the code: ftp.cebaf.gov/pub/bb/engsim_0.50.tar.Z I want to wring out the bugs in it, so try it out and let me know if it works, or better yet if it does not work. - Bruce ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 01:13:06 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20147; Thu, 6 Apr 95 01:13:06 GMT Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA20142; Wed, 5 Apr 95 21:13:02 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17596; Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:13:00 -0400 Date: Wed, 5 Apr 1995 21:13:00 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9504060113.AA17596@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: DIY_EFI Subject: EngSim doc Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI EngSim V 0.50 User's Manual Bruce Bowling April 03, 1995 I. Introduction --------------- EngSim (pronounced N-SIM) is a dynamic engine simulator which provides the user with engine operational information and data. The code was designed to provide dynamical representations of engines under differing environmental conditions. This code will be eventually be used to provide simulated engine running conditions for various engine management algorithms. The code for EngSim can be distributed freely, with the original author and source intact. II. EngSim Theory Of Operation ------------------------------ EngSim is a time-oriented dynamical model in which controlling and controlled parameters can be set by the user. The simulation is based on a crankshaft incrementation value, which is an input by the user. This increment value determines the time-step of the simulation. Therefore, a simulated engine with an crankshaft increment value of 1 degree, running at 1000 RPM, will have a greater time increment (1.6e-4 seconds) than the same engine turning at 7000 RPM (2.3e-5 seconds). This leads to the fact that engines simulated at higher RPMs will take require longer EngSim execution times than the equivalent engine at a slower RPM. The "running" time of a simulated engine is based on total seconds, an user input. Initial simulation time, initial crankshaft angle, initial engine RPM and rate of change RPM (RPMDOT) are alterable from the default state (see below). The initial camshaft angle is also user-defined, and this is the place one can set the camshaft installation advance/retard angle relative to crank angle. There are several engine-defined inputs which will require user-inputs. (It should be noted that the default values chosen match a Chevrolet 350 engine owned by the author) These include engine CID (cubic inch displacement), piston diameter, connecting rod length, crankshaft stroke, and number of cylinders. EngSim assumes cylindrical symmetry (i.e. all cylinders are identical), so one only has to input info on one cylinder and EngSim will do the work of duplication. Camshaft inputs are based on cam manufacturer's data sheet, which include intake lobe centerline, intake/exhaust lobe separation, and lifts at baseline, 0.050, and max lift. It is assumed that all intake and all exhaust lobes are identical, and that symmetric ramp patterns are used. EngSim uses a "relaxed" (natural) cubic spline fit on the input data, resulting in a continuous "lobe". (Splines were chosen over Legendre polynomials mainly due to the sparse information available on camshaft sheets). Once the inputs are parsed and munged-upon, EngSim starts execution. The user can select different parameter groups for printout. Be warned that EngSim can produce vast amounts of output very quickly, especially at fine crankshaft increments and high crankshaft RPMs. One very power feature of EngSim is the use of "events". An event is a condition when one variable controls the value of another. For instance, it may be desirable to change engine RPMs during a simulation run based on specific trigger times . The event mechanism allows this to occur. The inputs are the controlled variable with controlling event points, and the controlled variable with corresponding values. Other uses for events are controlling engine coolant temperature over time, tracking engine RPM with throttle, letting throttle change rates to control vacuum changes, etc. III. Compiling EngSim --------------------- EngSim was written in non-ANSI "C", and will compile on many of the C compilers floating around. The author has successfully compiled the code using the generic Unix "cc", and the GNU "gcc" compilers. One must link in math libraries to handle the transcendential functions used in EngSim. Unix syntax: gcc -o engsim engsim.c -lm with gcc being replaced with "cc", or c68k, etc. There is nothing exotic about the code, so compiling on a PC should be straight-forward. But there are no guarantees. Let the author know what problems occur in compiling, so they can be fixed on future releases. IV. User Inputs --------------- General Inputs: For the current release of EngSim, the simulation control file is named "simfile" and must exist in the same directory as the EngSim executable. An error will occur if the file is not where EngSim wants it to be. If you want to use all default settings, make a "simfile" with nothing inside of it, to fool EngSim. For general inputs, the file format is of the form: variable value One can put an equals sign if one wants to, for example variable = value There can be blank lines in the file, they will be ignored. One can also put in text, as long as the first word does not match a variable or keyword, such as "event" or "t0" (see below). But I advise against it. Variables will assume the default value if they are not entered in this file, so a lot of the time-based initialization values will not usually be entered. The ordering of the appearance of general inputs is irrelevant (not true with events, see below). Remember: Garbage in, garbage out. The following are the available user inputs understood by EngSim: t0 (time) - Initial starting time in seconds. Default is 0.0, and this is a good number to use, unless you know what you are doing (which the author does not). crankang0 - Initial crankshaft angle in degrees, from 0.0 to 720. Default is 0.0, so use it! camang0 - Initial camshaft angle in degrees, relative to the crankshaft initial angle. If the camshaft simulated is installed "straight-up", with no advance or retard, then the default value of 0.0 is great. This is the place to enter in the global camshaft starting angle relative to the crank. rpm0 - Initial engine RPM, in revs/minute. The default is 1000 RPM, so if you are lucky this may work for you, otherwise change it. If you enter 0.0 for an RPM, besides being a dumb input for a dynamical simulation, it can cause the simulation to crash or better yet "hang" in an infinite loop which may still be spewing output to the disk, eventually filling the disk up and crashing the computer. You were warned. rpmdot0 - Initial Rate-of-change of RPM, in RPMs/seconds. Default setting is 0.0, 99% of time this is what you need. crankanginc - Crankshaft angle increment value for simulation. This value is used as a controller on crankshaft resolution. Smaller increment angles will yield a finer resolution, but will increase computation time. The default of 1 degree works well for most uses. tend - Simulation ending time, in seconds. This is the value which determines the running time (simulation seconds) and must be greater than any time-related events in order for the event to occur. If this value is not set, EngSim will determine a value internally which will produce a run of two crankshaft revolutions at the given (or default) RPM. If a high number is given, like 1000000 seconds, be prepared to wait a lifetime for the results, perhaps shorter when the disk crashes because the printout options had been set. prnang - Determines how often a printout line will occur, for the user-chosen outputs, in crankshaft degrees. For example, if the crankanginc is set to 1.0, and the prnang is set to 2.0, a printout line(s) will occur every 2 crank degrees. The resolution is in crankanginc degrees, so if one set crankanginc to 90 degrees, and prnang to 1.0 degrees, a printout line will occur at 90 degrees. It makes more sense when used the other way: if crankanginc is set to 1.0 degrees, and prnang is set to 90. degrees, the printout will still occur at 90 degree increments, but the simulation internals will operate at the finer resolution of 1.0 degree. Enough! cid - Engine cubic inch displacement. 350 is the obvious default. ncyl - Number of cylinders. One can use any number, as long as it is 4, 6, or 8. bore - Cylinder bore in inches. Default is 4.0 stroke - Crankshaft stroke in inches (default = 3.75) rlen - Connecting rod length from center of big end to center of little end. Default is 7.50 Cylinder_1_fireorder - Engine firing order. Determines piston position Cylinder_2_fireorder offset and cam timing in the internals. Default: Cylinder_3_fireorder (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) respectively. If you put in Cylinder_4_fireorder something stupid, stupid things will result. Cylinder_5_fireorder Cylinder_6_fireorder Cylinder_7_fireorder Cylinder_8_fireorder cam_in_cl - Camshaft intake lobe centerline, referenced in crank degrees from TDC exhaust/intake stroke boundary. The default value is 106.0 degrees CRANK. cam_lobe_sep - Camshaft intake-exhaust lobe separation, in CAMSHAFT degrees. I did not come up with this screwy referencing angle scheme - this is how it is done by many cam manufacturers. The default is 110. CAM degrees. cam_in_dur - Advertised intake valve duration, in degrees crank. Default is 270.0 cam_in_dur050- Intake valve duration at 0.050 CAMSHAFT lift. Just get it off the camshaft card given with the cam. Default = 224. cam_ex_dur - Like cam_in_dur, except for exhaust. Same default. cam_ex_dur050- Like cam_in_dur050, except for exhaust. Same default. rocker_ratio - Rocker arm ratio. Default is 1.5 cooltemp - Coolant Temperature in degrees F, even though nothing really depends on this unit. Default is a toasty 160. cooltempdot - Rate-of-change of variable cooltemp, default is zero. cool2cvtslp - One can perform a linear translation of the coolant temperature to some other units. For instance, if one measured the resistance of a temperature transducer and a function of temperature, found the slope and offset values of the linear transfer function, the slope part is entered here. This and the following variables (all with "2cvt" in the name) are provided for convience. The slope and offset (see below) yield a system variable "cool2cvt": cool2cvt = cool2cvtslp * cooltemp + cool2cvtoff The default is something stupid. cool2cvtoff - The offset part of the user-defined transfer function (see above). Default is something. carbtemp - Air intake temperature, historically the air sucked through the carburetor. Units are degrees F, and the default is 60 degrees. carbtempdot - Another rate-of-change variable, this time affecting carbtemp. The "dot" on the variable indicates a time derivative, in this case time in seconds. So a value of 10.0 represents a change in carbtemp of +10.0 degrees per second, like driving into an oven. Default is 0.00000000 carb2cvtslp - See "cool2cvtslp". carb2cvtoff - See "cool2cvtoff". The equation creating carb2cvt is: carb2cvt = carb2cvtslp * carbtemp + carb2cvtoff throttle - Throttle plate opening in degrees, usually between 5 and 89 degrees. Default = 5.0. Nothing (yet) depends on the throttle position, but one can tie in events that control this value based on time. Soon, EngSim will have airflow stuff, so changes in throttle will change RPM, vacuum, etc. But for now, the user must tie these together, using events. throttledot - How fast you mash down on the accelerator. 0 is the startup. th2cvtslp - See "carb2cvtslp". th2cvtoff - See "carb2cvtoff". Equation for final "th2cvt" variable: th2cvt = th2cvtslp * throttle + th2cvtslp vacuum - Intake manifold vacuum, in Kpa. Nice units. vacuumdot - How much the vacuum changes over time, default is zero. vac2cvtslp - see "th2cvtslp". vac2cvtoff - see "th2cvtoff". Governing equation: vac2cvt = vac2cvtslp * vacuum + vac2cvtoff Events What are events? They are a convienent means of changing the value of a variable as a step function of another. One can see setting up a run which runs the engine at different RPMs, or changes the throttle position, etc. Most events are time related, so that the passage of time tiggers the change in a variable. EngSim only allows the changing of variable as a function of time, but soon EngSim should allow any variable to affect any other variable. But not now. Lets peer into a event setup, as inputted in "simfile", with correct syntax: event t 0. 1. 2. 3. rpm 2000. 3000. 1500. 2000. endevent the keyword of "event" all alone indicates the specification of an event. There has to be a corresponding "endevent" keyword to close out and complete the event. If you leave out this keyword, something very bad will happen, I just do not know what. The line "t 0. 1. 2. 3." indicates the "controller" variable, in this case time (t is the variable in the input specifications). The current version of EngSim only allows time as the controller variable, and the first line is always the controller variable, so always (until told otherwise) put in "t" in the first line. The numbers are the event time, so something shall happen after 1 second, then something else should happen after 2 seconds, etc. These are the time events. The line "rpm 2000. 3000. 1500. 2000." represents the "controlled" events. the variable controlled is rpm. The number corresponds to the associative event number above, and indicates what the value should be when the event happens. In the example, out of the hole (t=0.), the rpm is 2000. It ramps up at a rate which yields 3000 rpm at t=1 second. The rpm then linearly ramps down to 1500 at t=2 seconds, then finally ramp to 2000 rpm at t=3 seconds (remember t is simulation time). After 3 seconds, the rpm is held steady at 2000 rpm until the end of the run. The change in rpm, in this case, is computed in the event section of the code. It changes the rpm value itself at each time step, not using the rpmdot variable. Remember this. One can have up to 10 events, and there can be up to 10 controller points, but only one pair of controller/controlled. However, add a new event with the same time points and a new controlled variable. Example, one second into the run, the throttle shall be mashed and the vacuum shall go low, then high, and the rpm shall increase. Here are the events set up in simfile: event t 0. 1. 1.2 throttle 5. 5. 85. end event event t 0. 1. 1.2 3. vacuum 20. 20. 70. 35. endevent event t 0. 1. 3. rpm 2000. 2000. 4000. endevent If you understand the above then you can use events, otherwise you cannot. ASCII Printouts EngSim currently has one mode for output - ASCII printout. The amount of printout is controlled by prinout switches specified in "simfile". The printout occurs in the file "engsim.out", placed in the same directory as EngSim. They are of the form: print what where what is one of the following: inputs - Echo of the pertinent simulation variable at t=t0. This is good to see if what you actually wanted got interpreted correctly by EngSim. global - Prints out the time-related values at a frequency specified by "prnang" (see above). Simulation time, crank and cam position, rpm, and rpmdot. sensor - Output, every prnang crank degrees, the current throttle, vacuum, and coolant / intake temperatures. pistonpos - Piston position, all ncyl of 'em, at prnang increments. pistonvel - Piston velocity (ft/sec), all ncyl, at prnang matches. pistonacc - Piston acceleration (ft/sec/sec). pistoncid - Instantaneous swept volume of cylinder (all ncyl) in cubic inches. cam - Intake and exhaust current valve position (all ncyl) in inches at the valve. all - Prints out all of the above at prnang events. V. Running EngSim ----------------- Simply type: engsim There will be no output to the user's screen. If print options were set, the file engsim.out is created and filled in. EngSim is somewhat robust, however it probably has a fair amount of undiscovered bugs. So if you discover one, let me know (Email: bowling@cebaf.gov) so I can incorporate a fix. VI. Obtaining EngSim ------------------- One can get engsim via. anonymous ftp from the following location ftp.cebaf.gov/pub/bb/engsim_0.50.tar.Z Uncompressing and untarring will produce a "c" source, an include file, this document, and an example simfile. From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 18:58:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA23497; Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:58:04 GMT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA23487; Thu, 6 Apr 95 14:58:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 14:58:02 -0400 From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Message-Id: <9504061858.AA23487@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.S GI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_E FI diy_efi-outgoing id AA21399; Thu, 6 Apr 95 03:06:19 -0400 Received: by shiva.trl.OZ.AU id AA25262 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17: 04:40 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199504060704.AA25262@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Primarys and secondarys.. How? To: r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au (robert dingli) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:04:38 +1000 (EST) Cc: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <199504051042.UAA13966@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> from "robert dingli" a t Apr 5, 95 08:42:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1974 > Craig asks, > > > > With an engine with a primary and secondary stage, do you need different > > fuel curves for the primary and secondary (IE in a Mazda rotary, where > > the primary and secondary have different port timing (~= two intake > > valves in a piston engine following different cam profiles). > > First, some background .. > > Rotaries tend to have rather peculiar fuelling requirements. > While parallel injection once per revolution works fine in a piston engine, > we found that it resulted in unequal fuelling for a rotary. Each rotor > draws in air every revolution, 180 deg out of phase of the other, and produce s > relatively large pressure pulsations in the intake manifold. As a result > the fuel has the be injected either twice per revolution or sequentially. > We settled on sequential injection for the primaries to avoid injector > cut-off problems near idle and the larger non-linearity in fuel flow near > 100% duty cycle. The single secondary output (which is used on only a > fraction of applications) injects twice as often to provide equal fuelling. Egads! sounds complicated. Injecting twice per revolution at high RPM could get a bit dicey. I presume if it's in a situation like mild primarys (eg stock/extend) and bridge or J secondarys that you could use MAP for the primarys and throttle position for the secondarys (Ie with the 4 barrell setup). (Or would the vacuum fluctuation be too wild in the primarys? - nessecitating 2 Throttle position sensors or using mechanical secondarys and taking the single TPS as your only load input) I thought it would be a nice idea to use petrol (gasoline) in the primarys and methanol in the secondarys for more power. A freind is about to try this idea on his carbed car, as the primary and secondary float bowls - I'll report on the outcome. > As for fuel curves, the speed density mapping is calibrated empirically. I love that bit - makes tuning lots easier. Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 18:58:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA23521; Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:58:24 GMT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA23516; Thu, 6 Apr 95 14:58:23 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 14:58:23 -0400 From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Message-Id: <9504061858.AA23516@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.S GI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_E FI diy_efi-outgoing id AA21429; Thu, 6 Apr 95 03:21:28 -0400 Received: by shiva.trl.OZ.AU id AA25859 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17: 21:10 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199504060721.AA25859@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Methanol, O2 sensors, N2O solenoids. To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 17:21:09 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 786 Hi people. A few more qns: i/ Is methanol bad for EFI system components (pump/hoses/injectors)? I heard that it can be corrosive in this situation. ii/ Does the output of an oxygen sensor reflect the air-fuel mixture being correct FOR ALL FUELS? IE in a petrol engine at stoic (14.7:1) the voltage is in the 'transition zone' of ~0.2-0.7v Will this voltage 'transition zone' hold true for any fuel type at a stochiometric (ideal) air - fuel ratio? iii/ Can Nitrous solenoids be 'dithered' by duty cycle (like a lot of idle air valves are)? The idea here is to make the onset of nitrous delivery more smooth. (Assume the amount of fuel put into the engine is increased proportional to the nitrous amount) Thanks, Craig. pugsley@trl.oz.au From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 21:00:20 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA24856; Thu, 6 Apr 95 21:00:20 GMT Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper resend -p bulk -M 10000 -l Diy_Efi -f Diy_Efi-Owner -h coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -s -r DIY_EFI diy_efi-outgoing id AA24851; Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:00:15 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:55:02 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.2; from fridman@localhost) id ; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:59:26 -0600 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 14:59:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199504062059.OAA09711@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: archive? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > I just joined the list. Is there an archive? Is discussion of > distributorless ignition strictly off limits? Sometime in the next > couple years I want to build a port fuel injection system and > distributorless ignition for a pontiac 400 and/or for a suzuki 1100, > my two favorite powerplants. I'm an EE student at the Univ. of Illinois. > > Chris Burian > Welcome aboard. If you have access to a WWW viewer, try http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~fridman/diy_efi. Its the diy_efi www site. If not, then send mail to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu with the words "index diy_efi" as the body of the message. This will return all available articles. Then use "get diy_efi
" to retrieve it from the mail server. BTW, as far as I know, you are the only one besides me interested in motorcycles;) Its nice to have company. RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle (FOR SALE) fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 21:50:07 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA26506; Thu, 6 Apr 95 21:50:07 GMT Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA26494; Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:49:32 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 17:49:32 -0400 From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Message-Id: <9504062149.AA26494@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: [admin] test... ignore Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI testing 1 2 3 .... From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 23:25:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA26858; Thu, 6 Apr 95 23:25:48 GMT Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA26846; Thu, 6 Apr 95 19:25:44 -0400 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by cicerone.uunet.ca with SMTP id <168850-3>; Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:26:29 -0400 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02138; Thu, 6 Apr 95 19:19:41 EDT Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002136; Thu Apr 6 19:19:32 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23000; Thu, 6 Apr 95 19:04:20 EDT Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA03626; Thu, 6 Apr 95 19:24:46 -0400 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 19:24:46 -0400 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9504062324.AA03626@ivan.gallium.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Methanol, O2 sensors, N2O solenoids. Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I'll take a shot at these.... i/ Is methanol bad for EFI system components (pump/hoses/injectors)? I heard that it can be corrosive in this situation. Automotive components designed for gasoline may cause problems. Aftermarket parts are available which are designed for use with up to 100% methanol (M100). ii/ Does the output of an oxygen sensor reflect the air-fuel mixture being correct FOR ALL FUELS? IE in a petrol engine at stoic (14.7:1) the voltage is in the 'transition zone' of ~0.2-0.7v Will this voltage 'transition zone' hold true for any fuel type at a stochiometric (ideal) air - fuel ratio? I bought the MSD Rich-Lean Indicator, which is a heated O2 sensor and a small box with flashing red and green LEDs. The instructions indicate that this will show a both red and green lights to indicate a stoic mixture, for gasoline, M100 and propane. There are no adjustments possible. I don't know the answer to your question, but the above makes me suspect that the answer is "yes". iii/ Can Nitrous solenoids be 'dithered' by duty cycle (like a lot of idle air valves are)? The idea here is to make the onset of nitrous delivery more smooth. (Assume the amount of fuel put into the engine is increased proportional to the nitrous amount) The proportional NO2 systems being sold by NOS apparently do the same thing. Write or call for their literature, and I'd guess you'll get enough info to be certain. Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 6 23:49:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA26942; Thu, 6 Apr 95 23:49:34 GMT Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA26928; Thu, 6 Apr 95 19:49:31 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #21) id m0rx1I2-000CvlC; Thu, 6 Apr 95 18:48 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Methanol, O2 sensors, N2O solenoids. To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 6 Apr 1995 18:48:42 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9504062324.AA03626@ivan.gallium.com> from "Michael F. Sargent" at Apr 6, 95 07:24:46 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1969 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Michael F. Sargent writes: > ii/ Does the output of an oxygen sensor reflect the air-fuel mixture > being correct FOR ALL FUELS? IE in a petrol engine at stoic > (14.7:1) the voltage is in the 'transition zone' of ~0.2-0.7v > Will this voltage 'transition zone' hold true for any fuel type > at a stochiometric (ideal) air - fuel ratio? > > I bought the MSD Rich-Lean Indicator, which is a heated O2 sensor and a small > box with flashing red and green LEDs. The instructions indicate that this will > show a both red and green lights to indicate a stoic mixture, for gasoline, > M100 and propane. There are no adjustments possible. > > I don't know the answer to your question, but the above makes me suspect that > the answer is "yes". The answer is yes. You can get into something called "hydrogren shift" with fuels with a high Hydrogen/Oxygen ratio though (or was it H/Carbon?) which throws off the output, but I don't think it's enough to worry about unless you are trying for ULEV or something. > iii/ Can Nitrous solenoids be 'dithered' by duty cycle (like a lot of > idle air valves are)? The idea here is to make the onset of > nitrous delivery more smooth. (Assume the amount of fuel put into > the engine is increased proportional to the nitrous amount) > > The proportional NO2 systems being sold by NOS apparently do the same thing. > Write or call for their literature, and I'd guess you'll get enough info to > be certain. The NOS systems are using their plain old solenoids for this. However, the seat really takes a beating and can no longer be used for normal ON-OFF (it will leak...bad). NOS adds a second solenoid for arm/disarm. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 01:36:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA29875; Fri, 7 Apr 95 01:36:43 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA29861; Thu, 6 Apr 95 21:36:39 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HP11FALG4GD6IV7T@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Thu, 06 Apr 1995 18:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F849711@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Thu, 06 Apr 95 18:36:17 PDT Date: Thu, 06 Apr 1995 18:37:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: MAP map or MAF map To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F849711@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 22 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >> As for fuel curves, the speed density mapping is calibrated empirically. >I love that bit - makes tuning lots easier. What is the consensus with the diy-efi'ers out there: do you prefer manifold air pressure (MAP) sensing or mass air flow (MAF) sensing to determine the air flow into the engine. Seems to me that probability of success and ease of tuning would be achieved with the MAF sensor. It measures mass flow directly, and is not affected by changes in temperature or barometric pressure. A first order approximation of the injector pulse width could be made if one knows the flow rate of the injector and the mass air flow. This would make getting the engine running for the first time much easier. Ford sells their MAF for the 5.0 liter Mustang GT for around $150. It can flow enough for at least 210 horsepower. Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 12:08:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA00853; Fri, 7 Apr 95 12:08:24 GMT Received: from gmlink2.gmeds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA00839; Fri, 7 Apr 95 08:08:13 -0400 Received: from kopt0017 (kopt0017.delcoelect.com) by gmlink2.gmeds.com with SMTP id AA05610 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 08:08:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199504071208.AA05610@gmlink2.gmeds.com> Received: by kopt0017 (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA100006509; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 07:08:29 -0500 From: Jim Buchanan Subject: Re: archive? To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 7:08:29 CDT In-Reply-To: <199504062059.OAA09711@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>; from "Robert Fridman" at Apr 6, 95 2:59 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Robert Fridman: > > I just joined the list. Is there an archive? Is discussion of > > distributorless ignition strictly off limits? Sometime in the next > > couple years I want to build a port fuel injection system and > > distributorless ignition for a pontiac 400 and/or for a suzuki 1100, > > my two favorite powerplants. I'm an EE student at the Univ. of Illinois. [...] > > BTW, as far as I know, you are the only one besides me interested in motorcycles;) > Its nice to have company. Make that three! I just found this list due to a post on comp.arch.embedded. I subscribed yesterday. Wouldn't a 2 valve boxer with FI be interesting? Just dreaming right now, I still don't have the instrumentation I've been working on for a year done... When I saw your name, I thought this was a post from the BMW list :-) I doubt I post as much here as I do on the BMW list, probably any information I provide would have to be screened by security before I posted it. Bummer. I'll probably just lurk. Jim Buchanan c22jrb@kopt0002.delcoelect.com jbuchana@holli.com ========== Web page out of order :-( =========== "Unix was not designed to stop people from doing stupid things, because that would also stop them from doing clever things." -Doug Gwyn ================='73 BMW R75/5 "Frau Bluecher"============================ From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 14:06:20 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01118; Fri, 7 Apr 95 14:06:20 GMT Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA01104; Fri, 7 Apr 95 10:06:16 -0400 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by cicerone.uunet.ca with SMTP id <167795-1>; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:07:44 -0400 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03133; Fri, 7 Apr 95 10:00:58 EDT Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003131; Fri Apr 7 10:00:43 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29570; Fri, 7 Apr 95 09:45:25 EDT Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA15415; Fri, 7 Apr 95 10:05:58 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 10:05:58 -0400 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9504071405.AA15415@ivan.gallium.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Ford sells their MAF for the 5.0 liter Mustang GT for around $150. It can > flow enough for at least 210 horsepower. Upgrading the MAF is a very popular hop-up trick. I would expect that you would be able to find a used 5.0l MAF real cheap. Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 15:54:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01315; Fri, 7 Apr 95 15:54:12 GMT Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA01301; Fri, 7 Apr 95 11:54:07 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:48:56 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.2; from fridman@localhost) id ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:53:24 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 09:53:24 -0600 Message-Id: <199504071553.JAA12349@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: archive? Cc: c22jrb@kopt0002.delcoelect.com Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > BTW, as far as I know, you are the only one besides me interested in motorcycles;) > > Its nice to have company. > > Make that three! > Aha! Three and counting. Is anyone else interested in motorcycles on this list? > Wouldn't a 2 valve boxer with FI be interesting? Just dreaming right now, I > still don't have the instrumentation I've been working on for a year done... I've been thinking about this for about 2 years now. The problem is that the 280 Watt alternator can't supply enough power at low revs to feed the fuel pump and injectors and the rest of the bike so the battery drains. A company called Luftmiester offers a F.I. kit for the old twins for about $2000. It works well as long as you keep the revs up. The only solution to this is to fit an external alternator from a small car driven off of the crank. > > I doubt I post as much here as I do on the BMW list, probably any > information I provide would have to be screened by security before I > posted it. Bummer. I'll probably just lurk. Working for Delco eh? Trade secrets and all;) You can be our contact at Delco. I'm sure there is lots of public stuff that you can share with us. RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle (FOR SALE) fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 18:07:00 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA02136; Fri, 7 Apr 95 18:07:00 GMT Received: from gmlink2.gmeds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA02122; Fri, 7 Apr 95 14:06:56 -0400 Received: from kopt0017 (kopt0017.delcoelect.com) by gmlink2.gmeds.com with SMTP id AA27306 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:06:38 -0400 Message-Id: <199504071806.AA27306@gmlink2.gmeds.com> Received: by kopt0017 (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA280878018; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 13:06:58 -0500 From: Jim Buchanan Subject: Re: archive? To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 7 Apr 95 13:06:58 CDT In-Reply-To: <199504071553.JAA12349@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca>; from "Robert Fridman" at Apr 7, 95 9:53 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Working for Delco eh? Trade secrets and all;) You can be our contact at Delco. > I'm sure there is lots of public stuff that you can share with us. We've been talking about an official "net presence", but one thing is already clear -It's not up to the individual employee to decide what is public and what isn't. We've just had our already rather limited Usenet access cut back due to an unfortunate post from here, so we're treading on ice. OBDIYFI: Has anyone tried using the Bosch K-Jetronic from a water cooled VW on another engine? I'm thinking of another project car in the mid-future (maybe 2 years) and was thinking of an air-cooled VW. I've always used a single two-barrel Holley or two one-barrel Webers on them in the past. My experiences with the factory fuel-injection on air cooled VW's has left me unimpressed. The K-Jetronic on my two Rabbits was great though. It adapted perfectly to different cams, head-work and different exhaust. Jim Buchanan c22jrb@kopt0002.delcoelect.com jbuchana@holli.com ========== Web page out of order :-( =========== "Cats! The amazing carnivore that can _see_in_the_dark_!" ================='73 BMW R75/5 "Frau Bluecher"============================ From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 19:58:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA03021; Fri, 7 Apr 95 19:58:15 GMT Received: from [198.111.80.23] by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA03007; Fri, 7 Apr 95 15:58:07 -0400 Received: from srlns1.srl.ford.com by internet-mail.ford.com with SMTP id AA06458 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:58:05 -0400 Received: from ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com (ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com [19.3.98.21]) by srlns1.srl.ford.com (8.6.8/FordSRL 1.0) with SMTP id PAA07381 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:58:04 -0400 From: tsakiris@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com Received: by ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA17145; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:58:10 -0400 Received: from localhost by pt9254.ped.pto.ford.com (5.65/PED-CLIENT) id AA20192; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:58:10 -0400 Message-Id: <9504071958.AA20192@pt9254.ped.pto.ford.com> To: DIY_EFI Cc: tsakiris@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com Subject: Internet access (sorry if repeat, first might have not made it) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 95 15:58:09 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >We've been talking about an official "net presence", but one thing is >already clear -It's not up to the individual employee to decide what is >public and what isn't. > >We've just had our already rather limited Usenet access cut back due to an Same here. No more ftp. It's a very sensitive subject. I'd often like to do more than lurk, but I'm trying to walk that fine line. To those out there, please be sensitive to this situation. Phrases like "contact at " might tip the balance. I know no one would cause difficulty intentionally, but you might not be aware of how sensitive this issue can be at some companies. Anthony Tsakiris From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 20:31:36 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA03266; Fri, 7 Apr 95 20:31:36 GMT Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA03252; Fri, 7 Apr 95 16:31:33 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA23951; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:31:20 -0400 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 16:31:20 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9504072031.AA23951@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: #1@cebaf.gov, DIY_EFI, EngSim@cebaf.gov, bug@cebaf.gov Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Well, Mike Sargent found the first bug in EngSim - on some machines, if you access strtok after it returned NULL the previous time, it crashes due to segmentation fault. I put in his fix, so one bug squashed, N more to find! There is now version 0.51 out on ftp.cebaf.gov/pub/bb ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 20:52:00 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA03335; Fri, 7 Apr 95 20:52:00 GMT Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA03321; Fri, 7 Apr 95 16:51:53 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:46:44 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.2; from fridman@localhost) id ; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:51:12 -0600 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 14:51:12 -0600 Message-Id: <199504072051.OAA13304@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: archive? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > We've been talking about an official "net presence", but one thing is > already clear -It's not up to the individual employee to decide what is > public and what isn't. > > We've just had our already rather limited Usenet access cut back due to an > unfortunate post from here, so we're treading on ice. > I meant public as in Delco published and made available. You probably would have access to the complete works or at least be able to get at it. Don't you have a library of Delco publications? No worries;) RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle (FOR SALE) fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 22:31:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA03752; Fri, 7 Apr 95 22:31:05 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA03738; Fri, 7 Apr 95 18:31:02 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HP298SHZ5CD6J9G4@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Fri, 07 Apr 1995 15:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F85BD23@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Fri, 07 Apr 95 15:30:59 PDT Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 15:29:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Fuel injector driver from Cherry Semiconductor To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F85BD23@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 24 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI In the Cherry Semiconductor Automotive IC Data Book (1992), they list an "injector solenoid driver." The part number is CS-452 (2.4A peak current), and the CS-453 (4.4 A peak current). These parts appear to be equivalents to the Motorola MC3484S2-2 and MC3484S4-2, respectively. The pinout and package are the same. Comparison of the specs shows identical performance. I have no idea what these cost, or if they are still available. I once spoke to one of the Haltek engineers. He said that they were using the Motorola part in their EFI unit. I believe that he said that Motorola was going to stop making this part. Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone ever performed any tests to determine if this type of driver has significant advantages over a simple power MOSFET switch? From what I can tell, the peak/hold type of driver has the following benefits: faster opening of the injector; lower power dissipation, and less affect from power supply changes. I suspect that very few OEMs use this IC because of the cost. PS. Coming soon to a computer near you: MSD 6A schematics! Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 7 23:00:00 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA03820; Fri, 7 Apr 95 23:00:00 GMT Received: from grolsch-2.cs.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA03806; Fri, 7 Apr 95 18:59:53 -0400 Received: (from ean@localhost) by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (8.6.10/8.6.9) id PAA18314 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:38:58 -0700 X400-Received: by /PRMD=ca/ADMD=telecom.canada/C=ca/; Relayed; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:38:56 UTC-0700 Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 15:38:56 UTC-0700 X400-Originator: rodb@cs.ubc.ca X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=ca/ADMD=telecom.canada/C=ca/;950407153856] Content-Identifier: 2643 From: Rod Barman To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <9504071958.AA20192@pt9254.ped.pto.ford.com> Message-Id: <"2643*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: Re: Internet access -- Removing foot from mouth Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Ean X.400 to MIME gateway) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Same here. No more ftp. It's a very sensitive subject. I'd often like to > do more than lurk, but I'm trying to walk that fine line. To those out > there, please be sensitive to this situation. Phrases like "contact at > " might tip the balance. I know no one would cause difficulty > intentionally, but you might not be aware of how sensitive this issue can be > at some companies. I wasn't aware that the situation was so delicate. I've made a few such comments in the past and if they've caused anybody trouble I both regret making them and apologize. --rod. -- Rod Barman, IRIS ISDE-6 @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 8 02:10:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA04485; Sat, 8 Apr 95 02:10:12 GMT Received: from mv.MV.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA04471; Fri, 7 Apr 95 22:10:07 -0400 Received: by mv.mv.com (8.6.10/mv(b)/mem-940616) id WAA04501 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 7 Apr 1995 22:10:06 -0400 From: station.MV.COM!mvarc!an!adh Message-Id: <199504080210.WAA04501@mv.mv.com> Received: by station.mv.com (1.64/waf) via UUCP; Fri, 07 Apr 95 08:55:36 EST for mv!coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi Received: by mvarc.station.mv.com (1.64/waf) via UUCP; Fri, 07 Apr 95 08:11:34 EST for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi (John S Gwynne) Subject: re: nitrous solenoids Date: Fri Apr 7 08:33 EST 1995 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI From: Craig Pugsley Hi people. A few more qns: iii/ Can Nitrous solenoids be 'dithered' by duty cycle (like a lot of idle air valves are)? The idea here is to make the onset of nitrous delivery more smooth. (Assume the amount of fuel put into the engine is increased proportional to the nitrous amount) one of the nitrous companies makes such a proportional system. wear on the solenoid valves is fairly rapid, so they use two valves in series - one dithered, one on/off. _______________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics adh@an.bradford.ma.us ---Schroedinger From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 8 06:14:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA05209; Sat, 8 Apr 95 06:14:24 GMT Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA05195; Sat, 8 Apr 95 02:14:21 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #21) id m0rxTlz-000CuOC; Sat, 8 Apr 95 01:13 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Internet access (sorry if repeat, first might have not made it) To: DIY_EFI Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 01:13:31 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9504071958.AA20192@pt9254.ped.pto.ford.com> from "tsakiris@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com" at Apr 7, 95 03:58:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 829 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI tsakiris@ed8200.ped.pto.ford.com writes: > > Same here. No more ftp. It's a very sensitive subject. I'd often like to > do more than lurk, but I'm trying to walk that fine line. To those out > there, please be sensitive to this situation. Phrases like "contact at > " might tip the balance. I know no one would cause difficulty > intentionally, but you might not be aware of how sensitive this issue can be > at some companies. Getting waaaaaay off topic, why don't you get an account with a local ISP and do your netsurfing at home? -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 8 17:25:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07936; Sat, 8 Apr 95 17:25:16 GMT Received: from netcom5.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA07921; Sat, 8 Apr 95 13:25:12 -0400 Received: by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id KAA01939; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:25:08 -0700 From: vnegrete@netcom.com (Vince Negrete) Message-Id: <199504081725.KAA01939@netcom5.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Fuel injector driver from Cherry Semiconductor To: DIY_EFI Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:25:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2F85BD23@gismtpgate.gi.com> from "Zublin, Bryan" at Apr 7, 95 03:29:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 396 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > PS. Coming soon to a computer near you: MSD 6A schematics! > > Bryan Zublin > General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA > bzublin@gi.com > Is this MSD 6A an ECM schematic ? I also got wind that Ford had a ECM that could be re-programmed? Where could I find the FAQ on this? Any designs at the completion stage that I could get a hold of? I need something I can work with. Thanks vince From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 8 17:39:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA08057; Sat, 8 Apr 95 17:39:12 GMT Received: from netcom5.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA08042; Sat, 8 Apr 95 13:39:09 -0400 Received: by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id KAA03246; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:39:07 -0700 From: vnegrete@netcom.com (Vince Negrete) Message-Id: <199504081739.KAA03246@netcom5.netcom.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: DIY_EFI Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:39:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9504072031.AA23951@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> from "Bruce Bowling" at Apr 7, 95 04:31:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 192 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > There is now version 0.51 out on ftp.cebaf.gov/pub/bb > > Great. Does anyone have a finished design out on the chopping block yet of an ECM? Or maybe a hacked version??? Thanks vince From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 8 18:08:53 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA08624; Sat, 8 Apr 95 18:08:53 GMT Received: from netcom5.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA08610; Sat, 8 Apr 95 14:08:50 -0400 Received: by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id LAA05682; Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:08:47 -0700 From: vnegrete@netcom.com (Vince Negrete) Message-Id: <199504081808.LAA05682@netcom5.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Fuel injector driver from Cherry Semiconductor To: DIY_EFI Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:08:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 432 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > PS. Coming soon to a computer near you: MSD 6A schematics! > > > > Bryan Zublin > > General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA > > bzublin@gi.com > > > > Is this MSD 6A an ECM schematic ? > I also got wind that Ford had a ECM that could be re-programmed? > Where could I find the FAQ on this? > > Any designs at the completion stage that I could get a hold of? > > I need something I can work with. > > Thanks > vince > From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 9 10:16:22 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11680; Sun, 9 Apr 95 10:16:22 GMT Received: from netcom13.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA11666; Sun, 9 Apr 95 06:16:19 -0400 Received: by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id DAA10142; Sun, 9 Apr 1995 03:16:15 -0700 From: vnegrete@netcom.com (Vince Negrete) Message-Id: <199504091016.DAA10142@netcom13.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Fuel injector driver from Cherry Semiconductor To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 03:16:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 393 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > PS. Coming soon to a computer near you: MSD 6A schematics! > Bryan Zublin > General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA > bzublin@gi.com Is this MSD 6A an ECM schematic ? I also got wind that Ford had a ECM that could be re-programmed? Where could I find the FAQ on this? Any designs at the completion stage that I could get a hold of? I need something I can work with. Thanks vince From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 9 10:18:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11699; Sun, 9 Apr 95 10:18:43 GMT Received: from netcom13.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA11685; Sun, 9 Apr 95 06:18:41 -0400 Received: by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id DAA10211; Sun, 9 Apr 1995 03:18:38 -0700 From: vnegrete@netcom.com (Vince Negrete) Message-Id: <199504091018.DAA10211@netcom13.netcom.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 03:18:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 193 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > There is now version 0.51 out on ftp.cebaf.gov/pub/bb Great. Does anyone have a finished design out on the chopping block yet of an ECM? Or maybe a hacked version??? > Thanks > vince From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 03:36:53 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA14090; Mon, 10 Apr 95 03:36:53 GMT Received: from asi1.anutech.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA14076; Sun, 9 Apr 95 23:36:45 -0400 Received: (from hugh@localhost) by asi1.anutech.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA28261; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:31:15 +1000 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:31:14 +60000 From: "H. Blemings" Subject: FAQ ? To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi, I'm a recent (OK, This morning :) subscriber to the list and was wondering if there is a FAQ available. I've had a look 'round the WWW stuff - my thanks and compliments to those who put it together - but was looking for some stuff which is probably more FAQ oriented. My Project: My brother in law is a mechanic and is looking at putting a 2.6 litre EFI engine from a Holden Rodeo (not sure of the US equivalent) into his Holden Gemini coupe (both of which actually use Isuzu motors). I've wanted to build an EFI system for a long time but had never got past the thinking stage, particularly since aftermarket commercial units are comparatively cheap anyway. So the plan is to build what will hopefully prove to be a fairly generic hardware system (HC11 probably) and evolve the software as our experience grows. Cheers, Hugh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hugh Blemings | email : hugh@asi1.anutech.com.au | phone : 015 485558 / +61 15 485558 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Proverbs 3:5,6 - Read The Book for further details :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 05:31:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA14242; Mon, 10 Apr 95 05:31:40 GMT Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA14228; Mon, 10 Apr 95 01:31:28 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id PAA17568 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:31:13 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199504100531.PAA17568@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: efi bikes To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:31:13 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199504062059.OAA09711@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> from "Robert Fridman" at Apr 6, 95 02:59:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1363 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Robert Fridman mentioned : > > BTW, as far as I know, you are the only one besides me interested in motorcycles;) > Its nice to have company. While I'm personally not interested in bikes (a self preservation instinct thingie), one of my partners is and so are some of our applications. Recently, a customer installed a complete Wolf efi and ignition system onto his Honda CBX1000. The bike is a 1000 cc bored/stroked to 1200 and has had a turbo fitted for good measure. The six cylinder now happily (and quickly) spins to 10000 rpm without a glitch. The owner plans to manufacture and market complete kits in the furture. If his workmanship on this project is anything to go by, then I would certainly recommend it to anyone with an eye for quality, oh and a death wish. The only bike I've ever ridden is a 50cc mini motto. I don't think I'll volunteer to ride this one. :-) Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 344 7966 (+613) 344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 05:56:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA14280; Mon, 10 Apr 95 05:56:13 GMT Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA14266; Mon, 10 Apr 95 01:56:08 -0400 Received: from romulus.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA13760; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:55:51 +1000 Received: From MECHMAN/WORKQUEUE by romulus.mm.swin.edu.au via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.950410155514.992; 10 Apr 95 15:55:50 -1000 Message-Id: From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:02:19 EST-10 Subject: Re: FAQ ? Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.20-pr2) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > From: "H. Blemings" > I'm a recent (OK, This morning :) subscriber to the list and was wondering > if there is a FAQ available. I've had a look 'round the WWW stuff - my > thanks and compliments to those who put it together - but was looking for > some stuff which is probably more FAQ oriented. > Hi Hugh It's good to see another aussie on the list! Unfortunately there isn't a FAQ for this list. I've got a summary of another project that has spun off this list. This project (designated EFI332) is aimed at the development of an EFI system which is based on the Motorola MC68332 - a 32 bit processor with a timer subsystem ideal for EFI. I will send the summary to you seperately. If you want to subscribe to that mailing list use the same process as you just did but substitute EFI332 for DIYEFI. > So the plan is to build what will hopefully prove to be a > fairly generic hardware system (HC11 probably) and evolve the software as > our experience grows. There are people on the list who have used the HC11 extensively (myself included) but I'd suggest joining in on the EFI332 discussion. Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 3 214 8296 Fax: +61 3 214 4949 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/welcome.html From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 06:01:59 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA14311; Mon, 10 Apr 95 06:01:59 GMT Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA14282; Mon, 10 Apr 95 01:57:08 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id PAA19115 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:56:55 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199504100556.PAA19115@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:56:54 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <2F849711@gismtpgate.gi.com> from "Zublin, Bryan" at Apr 6, 95 06:37:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1708 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Bryan writes, > > > >> As for fuel curves, the speed density mapping is calibrated empirically. > > >I love that bit - makes tuning lots easier. > > What is the consensus with the diy-efi'ers out there: do you prefer > manifold air pressure (MAP) sensing or mass air flow (MAF) sensing to > determine the air flow into the engine. Seems to me that probability of > success and ease of tuning would be achieved with the MAF sensor. It > measures mass flow directly, and is not affected by changes in temperature > or barometric pressure. A first order approximation of the injector pulse > width could be made if one knows the flow rate of the injector and the mass > air flow. This would make getting the engine running for the first time > much easier. > MAF systems require inlet air temp for compensation as do MAP systems. MAF system also use a barometric pressure sensor for compensation while MAP systems don't. > Ford sells their MAF for the 5.0 liter Mustang GT for around $150. It can > flow enough for at least 210 horsepower. > Ford sells there MAP for around Aus$40-50 (US$30-37). It can provide an air flow estimate for almost any non-turbo car or bike and you still need one for a MAF system. Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 344 7966 (+613) 344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 07:46:53 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA14451; Mon, 10 Apr 95 07:46:53 GMT Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA14437; Mon, 10 Apr 95 03:46:46 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id PAA18575 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:48:32 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199504100548.PAA18575@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Fuel injector driver from Cherry Semiconductor To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:48:32 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <2F85BD23@gismtpgate.gi.com> from "Zublin, Bryan" at Apr 7, 95 03:29:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1398 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > In the Cherry Semiconductor Automotive IC Data Book (1992), they list an > "injector solenoid driver." The part number is CS-452 (2.4A peak current), > and the CS-453 (4.4 A peak current). These parts appear to be equivalents > to the Motorola MC3484S2-2 and MC3484S4-2, respectively. The pinout and > package are the same. Comparison of the specs shows identical performance. > I have no idea what these cost, or if they are still available. > Pinouts are the same, except that the legs are bent differently. Minimum order quantity 2000. > I once spoke to one of the Haltek engineers. He said that they were using > the Motorola part in their EFI unit. I believe that he said that Motorola > was going to stop making this part. Can anyone confirm this? > Yes, I heard this about a year ago from our local distributor. > PS. Coming soon to a computer near you: MSD 6A schematics! > Can't wait Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 344 7966 (+613) 344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 11:04:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA14642; Mon, 10 Apr 95 11:04:43 GMT Received: from gmlink2.gmeds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA14628; Mon, 10 Apr 95 07:04:39 -0400 Received: from kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (sv01_03.delcoelect.com) by gmlink2.gmeds.com with SMTP id AA23690 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Mon, 10 Apr 1995 07:04:37 -0400 Received: from koiasw15.delcoelect.com by kocrsv01.delcoelect.com with SMTP id AA20479 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/CORE for ); Mon, 10 Apr 1995 05:34:35 -0500 Received: by koiasw15.delcoelect.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11739; Mon, 10 Apr 95 05:32:08 EST From: Lawrence E. Piekarski Message-Id: <9504101032.AA11739@koiasw15.delcoelect.com> Subject: Re: archive? To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 05:32:08 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199504071806.AA27306@gmlink2.gmeds.com> from "Jim Buchanan" at Apr 7, 95 01:06:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1321 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI [ [> Working for Delco eh? Trade secrets and all;) You can be our contact at Delco. [> I'm sure there is lots of public stuff that you can share with us. [ [We've been talking about an official "net presence", but one thing is [already clear -It's not up to the individual employee to decide what is [public and what isn't. [ [We've just had our already rather limited Usenet access cut back due to an [unfortunate post from here, so we're treading on ice. Looks like I joined the list the same day you did. I'll bet we are not the only two ;-) I am curious, what Usenet access was cut back? Is that the rec.motorcycle issue that came up? From what I gathered on delco.misc, I thought we lost the bike stuff due to foul language, not a posting of confidential info. If that is the case, can I ask what was posted (I don't care who) so I can get a flavor of what is good/bad. BTW, did you ride your bike out on 50 South on Saturday? We were having a garage sale and I saw an older horizontal Black BMW come buy twice. -- (* Larry Piekarski, Software Engineer 1997 Cadillac Instrument Panel *) (* c1ilep@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com Delco Electronics, Kokomo, IN *) (* BOBBITT VIRUS: Removes a vital part of your hard disk then *) (* re-attaches it. (But that part will never work again.) *) From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 14:30:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15560; Mon, 10 Apr 95 14:30:01 GMT Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 14:30:01 GMT From: owner-diy_efi Message-Id: <9504101430.AA15560@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Apparently-To: diy_efi-outgoing (Message jsg:712) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 08:14:30 EDT To: owner-diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu As I have specifically stated I won't advertise on this list, this will be brief and in andswer to a request. I have adaptors which will allow a Ford ECU to be reprogrammed through the 'service port'. They plug on the back of an EEC4 or EEC5 and will convert the Ford system to an Eprom. They'll cost you $98.00 each and if there is any interest, please contact me directly. If there is a lot of interest I may will contact the group owner and ask if it can go public. Peter Peter Wales Superchips Inc "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 15:22:49 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16062; Mon, 10 Apr 95 15:22:49 GMT Received: from [198.111.80.23] by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA16048; Mon, 10 Apr 95 11:22:36 -0400 Received: from etcv01.eld.ford.com by internet-mail.ford.com with SMTP id AA27817 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Mon, 10 Apr 1995 11:22:34 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 11:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: PATTEEUW@etcv01.eld.ford.com To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <950410112329.210024e6@etcv01.eld.ford.com> Subject: RE: Fuel injector driver from Cherry Semiconductor Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Regarding peaking and hold in general ... The IC's that are currently available on the open market are (probably) silicon built to a specific manufacturers (ie. Delco, Ford or Chrysler). Ford does but IC from both Motorola and Cherry (I don't know which from whom). The benefits you list were the reasons for this type of driver. I think we (Ford) have now switched completely to "high" impedance injectors (ie. >= 12 ohms) which only draw a nominal 1 amp and don't require the peak and hold drivers. Power MOSFET are only recently being used because in the past they were too expensize. Jack Patteeuw I speak for myself and not my company ! From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 15:37:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16115; Mon, 10 Apr 95 15:37:25 GMT Received: from [198.111.80.23] by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA16101; Mon, 10 Apr 95 11:37:21 -0400 Received: from etcv01.eld.ford.com by internet-mail.ford.com with SMTP id AA28862 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Mon, 10 Apr 1995 11:37:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 11:38:15 -0400 (EDT) From: PATTEEUW@etcv01.eld.ford.com To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <950410113815.210024e6@etcv01.eld.ford.com> Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Ford sells their MAF for the 5.0 liter Mustang GT for around $150. It can > flow enough for at least 210 horsepower. > I think the part being refered to, is an "aftermarket" MAF sold through Ford's performance catalog. It has a larger bore than the standard MAF used on the 5.0. Jack Patteeuw From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 16:36:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16277; Mon, 10 Apr 95 16:36:21 GMT Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA16263; Mon, 10 Apr 95 12:36:16 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 10:30:50 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.2; from fridman@localhost) id ; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 10:35:34 -0600 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 10:35:34 -0600 Message-Id: <199504101635.KAA22387@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: efi bikes Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Recently, a customer installed a complete Wolf efi and ignition system > onto his Honda CBX1000. The bike is a 1000 cc bored/stroked to 1200 > and has had a turbo fitted for good measure. The six cylinder now happily > (and quickly) spins to 10000 rpm without a glitch. The owner plans to > manufacture and market complete kits in the furture. If his workmanship > on this project is anything to go by, then I would certainly recommend > it to anyone with an eye for quality, oh and a death wish. > Sheesh! Talk about excess;) I hope your partner has braced the frame and forks if he plans to take corners with the bike. As an aside: Why did he choose the CBX? There aren't many of those around. Probably because he has one and wanted to show the rest of the squids with the latest wiz bang rockets that the old iron is still fast... RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle (FOR SALE) fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 17:03:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16355; Mon, 10 Apr 95 17:03:08 GMT Received: from gmlink2.gmeds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA16341; Mon, 10 Apr 95 13:03:01 -0400 Received: from kopt0017 (kopt0017.delcoelect.com) by gmlink2.gmeds.com with SMTP id AA13019 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:02:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199504101702.AA13019@gmlink2.gmeds.com> Received: by kopt0017 (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA258053126; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 11:58:46 -0500 From: Jim Buchanan Subject: RE: Fuel injector driver from Cherry Semiconductor To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 11:58:45 CDT In-Reply-To: <950410112329.210024e6@etcv01.eld.ford.com>; from "PATTEEUW@etcv01.eld.ford.com" at Apr 10, 95 11:23 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Jack Patteeuw: > > Regarding peaking and hold in general ... > > The IC's that are currently available on the open market are (probably) silicon > built to a specific manufacturers (ie. Delco, Ford or Chrysler). Ford does but > IC from both Motorola and Cherry (I don't know which from whom). The benefits > you list were the reasons for this type of driver. > It should be safe to say (well they tell this to the high-school kids on tour :-) ) that we make almost all of out silicon here at Kokomo. Not all though. Jim Buchanan c22jrb@kopt0002.delcoelect.com jbuchana@holli.com ========== Web page out of order :-( =========== "Cthulu -When you're tired of picking the _lesser_ of two evils." ================='73 BMW R75/5 "Frau Bluecher"============================ From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 10 22:06:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA18507; Mon, 10 Apr 95 22:06:15 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA18493; Mon, 10 Apr 95 18:06:08 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HP6F8WIJQ8D6JNPL@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F89ABC7@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Mon, 10 Apr 95 15:05:59 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:07:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: FW: FAQ ? To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F89ABC7@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 15 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > that has spun off this list. This project (designated EFI332) is > aimed at the development of an EFI system which is based on the > Motorola MC68332 - a 32 bit processor with a timer subsystem ideal > for EFI. I will send the summary to you seperately. If you want to > subscribe to that mailing list use the same process as you just did > but substitute EFI332 for DIYEFI. Andrew, Can you send me the summary also? Thanks, BZ Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 01:19:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA18971; Tue, 11 Apr 95 01:19:01 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA18957; Mon, 10 Apr 95 21:18:54 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HP6LYXLPV4D6JUQ3@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Mon, 10 Apr 1995 18:18:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F89D8ED@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Mon, 10 Apr 95 18:18:37 PDT Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 18:16:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: FW: MAP map or MAF map To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F89D8ED@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 20 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >> Ford sells their MAF for the 5.0 liter Mustang GT for around $150. It can >> flow enough for at least 210 horsepower. > I think the part being referred to, is an "aftermarket" MAF sold through Ford's > performance catalog. It has a larger bore than the standard MAF used on the > 5.0. > Jack Patteeuw When I quoted the $150 price, I was referring to the stock unit, ie. direct replacement part. The 210 (+/- 10) horsepower figure is what the Mustang can do in stock form. BZ Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 01:29:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19002; Tue, 11 Apr 95 01:29:30 GMT Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA18988; Mon, 10 Apr 95 21:29:02 -0400 Received: from romulus.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA17533; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 11:28:09 +1000 Received: From MECHMAN/WORKQUEUE by romulus.mm.swin.edu.au via Charon-4.0-VROOM with IPX id 100.950411112729.864; 11 Apr 95 11:28:09 -1000 Message-Id: From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 11:26:33 EST-10 Subject: Re: Protocol Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.20-pr2) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > From: "H. Blemings" > Hi Andrew, > > I wanted to bounce the following off you before I put it out to a wider > readership in case I'm re-inventing the wheel! > Hi Hugh, I've sent this reply to the list as I think that the others may have some interest in your ideas. > Part of my EFI project is going to include a telemetry link for remote > monitoring and programming. Whilst thinking about this it occured to me > that it would be useful to make use of a standard protocol if one exists, > or alternatively to try and put one together in collaboration with people > on the net so that people can exchange monitoring tools etc. and > hopefully save some duplication of work. > It may be possible to implement the ODB1850?? (I can't remember exactly what it is called) standard which has been mentioned previously on this list. I guess it has a standard protocol for data monitoring. Anyone care to shed some light on this?? If there is no suitable standard then maybe we could define one which allows for tuning / monitoring / downloading? which could be inplemented in the EFI332 or other projects. This would allow a suite of tuning, telemetry, etc tools to be developed which could work for a generic EFI system. Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Phone: +61 3 214 8296 Fax: +61 3 214 4949 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/welcome.html From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 02:47:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19133; Tue, 11 Apr 95 02:47:34 GMT Received: from merlin.nando.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA19119; Mon, 10 Apr 95 22:47:31 -0400 Received: by merlin.nando.net (4.1/davel-nando/Jan95) id AA01413; Mon, 10 Apr 95 22:47:22 EDT Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 22:47:21 -0400 (EDT) From: David Cooley To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Protocol In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, Andrew Dennison wrote: > > > It may be possible to implement the ODB1850?? (I can't remember exactly > what it is called) standard which has been mentioned previously on > this list. I guess it has a standard protocol for data monitoring. > Anyone care to shed some light on this?? > Harris has a complete and inexpensive line of OBD_II SAE J1850 comm protocol IC's. The protocols are too complex for a mail post (unless I had a week to write...) but the SAE publication HS-3000 is the complete shebang... One of the harris IC's is the HIP7030A0... It is a 68HC05 cpu with SENDEC, crc generation etc... It only requires code and the HIP7020 Bus tranceiver chip. Later, Dave Cooley cooldave@nando.net From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 04:00:23 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19256; Tue, 11 Apr 95 04:00:23 GMT Received: from [203.10.57.17] by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA19242; Tue, 11 Apr 95 00:00:14 -0400 Received: (from hugh@localhost) by asi1.anutech.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA16001; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 14:09:00 +1000 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 14:08:59 +60000 From: "H. Blemings" Subject: Re: Protocol To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi, On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, David Cooley wrote: (In response to Andrew/my post about a standard telemetry protocol) > Harris has a complete and inexpensive line of OBD_II SAE J1850 comm > protocol IC's. The protocols are too complex for a mail post (unless I > had a week to write...) but the SAE publication HS-3000 is the complete > shebang... > One of the harris IC's is the HIP7030A0... It is a 68HC05 cpu with > SENDEC, crc generation etc... It only requires code and the HIP7020 Bus > tranceiver chip. Sounds interesting - I'm not familiar with the OBD_II protocol so can't really comment whether it is the same as what I had in mind. I've started a rough document about what I had in mind and shall endeavour to post it later on today - please feel free to comment, particularly if I'm re-inventing the wheel :) Cheers, Hugh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hugh Blemings | email : hugh@asi1.anutech.com.au | phone : 015 485558 / +61 15 485558 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Proverbs 3:5,6 - Read The Book for further details :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 05:26:06 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19395; Tue, 11 Apr 95 05:26:06 GMT Received: from asi1.anutech.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA19361; Tue, 11 Apr 95 01:07:26 -0400 Received: (from hugh@localhost) by asi1.anutech.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA16802; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 15:16:11 +1000 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 15:16:11 +60000 From: "H. Blemings" Subject: Re: Protocol To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Here is the first revision of the protocol document, please feel free to comment. Cheers, Hugh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Hugh Blemings | email : hugh@asi1.anutech.com.au | phone : 015 485558 / +61 15 48555= 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- (Proverbs 3:5,6 - Read The Book for further details :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ---------8< Clip'n' Save or throw away! 8<------------- Standard Engine Telemetry Protocol. This is very much a draft!! Hugh Blemings Revision 0.1 950411 1.0 Introduction This document aims to encourage the development of a standard protocol for use in the remote monitoring of internal combustion engines both petrol and diesel. It is hoped that the protocol will prove useful for both real time monitoring and the transfer of logged real time data. It would be desirable to provide for remote programming capability in such a protocol and discussion on this aspect is encouraged. A primary design goal is that of an efficient protocol which will not place unnecessarily large demands on system resources both in terms of processing power and link bandwidth. To this end only a rudimentary check sum system is proposed with no provision for re-sending of erroneous data when in real time mode. It is suggested that in more mission critical applications, a higher level link protocol could be run over the top of this protocol to provide more comprehensive error control. With the above aim in mind the proposed protocol normally makes use of the processors native units for most values, the local display or monitoring software is charged with the task of converting the data sent into "real world" units. Finally, recognising the possibility that the protocol would be used as an overall telemetry system for a vehicle, provision is made for data to be sent which strictly speaking is not related to the engine, for example road speed, brake temperature, gear etc. 2.0 Telemetry Data It is suggested that the following variables be incorporated as standard inclusions into the protocol with auxiliary analogue and digital channels being made available. Please note that this list is based on what has come to mind personally and hence should not be considered exhaustive, I would add that I=92m not an automotive expert by any stretch so some of the suggested parameters may be a little odd :) Engine RPM, Coolant temperature, Oil temperature, Manifold Air Pressure, Mass Air Flow, Engine position, Firing order, Ignition advance, Dwell angle, Turbo Boost, Wastegate status (open/closed ?), Intake air temperature, intercooler temperature (is this relevant), Clutch position, Battery voltage, Alternator current =20 Gearbox/Transfer case Current Gear, Oil temperature, Transfer case oil temperature =20 General Brake status, Brake temperature, Tyre pressure, Tyre temperature, Outside air temperature, Cabin air temperature (to check if the airconditioner is working :) Road speed, X/Y/Z acceleration 3.0 Protocol Structure This section is by no means complete or fully though through but... I envisage the need for two conceptual operating modes, one being real time in which the data sent is assumed to be current at that instant minus transmission and data conversion delays. The second mode which should enmesh closely with the protocol established for the real time mode would essentially add some sort of time stamp so that data can be positioned correctly in the time domain. This mode would be used for situations where data is logged then downloaded when convenient. The protocol would make use of a serial link running 8 bits, no parity (?) and one stop bit, just like a desktop PC. Baud rate need not be specified but it is suggested somewhere around 9600 would be standard. The data will be sent in a binary format. An ASCII mode might be nice but this may increase bandwidth and processing requirements unnecessarily. Any thoughts ? Individual messages, which if enabled are automatically sent when a variable changes, would consist of a single byte header and a number (typically 1 or 2) of data bytes followed by a simple checksum. A maximum update rate for each variable would need to be specified along with the ability to send a command back to the remote unit to control whether a particular parameter is to be sent or not. This would allow a bad connection generating spurious data to be masked for example. I have in mind to set the header information up in such a fashion as to allow efficient message generation and subsequent decoding. For example, I would foresee all messages that have one data byte would use a header byte less than say 0x40, over 0x40 indicates two data bytes etc. More detail will follow soon... Comments invited! ------------------- END From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 05:31:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19427; Tue, 11 Apr 95 05:31:40 GMT Received: from asi1.anutech.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA19377; Tue, 11 Apr 95 01:21:14 -0400 Received: (from hugh@localhost) by asi1.anutech.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA16802; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 15:16:11 +1000 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 15:16:11 +60000 From: "H. Blemings" Subject: Re: Protocol To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Here is the first revision of the protocol document, please feel free to comment. Cheers, Hugh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- Hugh Blemings | email : hugh@asi1.anutech.com.au | phone : 015 485558 / +61 15 48555= 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- (Proverbs 3:5,6 - Read The Book for further details :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- ---------8< Clip'n' Save or throw away! 8<------------- Standard Engine Telemetry Protocol. This is very much a draft!! Hugh Blemings Revision 0.1 950411 1.0 Introduction This document aims to encourage the development of a standard protocol for use in the remote monitoring of internal combustion engines both petrol and diesel. It is hoped that the protocol will prove useful for both real time monitoring and the transfer of logged real time data. It would be desirable to provide for remote programming capability in such a protocol and discussion on this aspect is encouraged. A primary design goal is that of an efficient protocol which will not place unnecessarily large demands on system resources both in terms of processing power and link bandwidth. To this end only a rudimentary check sum system is proposed with no provision for re-sending of erroneous data when in real time mode. It is suggested that in more mission critical applications, a higher level link protocol could be run over the top of this protocol to provide more comprehensive error control. With the above aim in mind the proposed protocol normally makes use of the processors native units for most values, the local display or monitoring software is charged with the task of converting the data sent into "real world" units. Finally, recognising the possibility that the protocol would be used as an overall telemetry system for a vehicle, provision is made for data to be sent which strictly speaking is not related to the engine, for example road speed, brake temperature, gear etc. 2.0 Telemetry Data It is suggested that the following variables be incorporated as standard inclusions into the protocol with auxiliary analogue and digital channels being made available. Please note that this list is based on what has come to mind personally and hence should not be considered exhaustive, I would add that I=92m not an automotive expert by any stretch so some of the suggested parameters may be a little odd :) Engine RPM, Coolant temperature, Oil temperature, Manifold Air Pressure, Mass Air Flow, Engine position, Firing order, Ignition advance, Dwell angle, Turbo Boost, Wastegate status (open/closed ?), Intake air temperature, intercooler temperature (is this relevant), Clutch position, Battery voltage, Alternator current =20 Gearbox/Transfer case Current Gear, Oil temperature, Transfer case oil temperature =20 General Brake status, Brake temperature, Tyre pressure, Tyre temperature, Outside air temperature, Cabin air temperature (to check if the airconditioner is working :) Road speed, X/Y/Z acceleration 3.0 Protocol Structure This section is by no means complete or fully though through but... I envisage the need for two conceptual operating modes, one being real time in which the data sent is assumed to be current at that instant minus transmission and data conversion delays. The second mode which should enmesh closely with the protocol established for the real time mode would essentially add some sort of time stamp so that data can be positioned correctly in the time domain. This mode would be used for situations where data is logged then downloaded when convenient. The protocol would make use of a serial link running 8 bits, no parity (?) and one stop bit, just like a desktop PC. Baud rate need not be specified but it is suggested somewhere around 9600 would be standard. The data will be sent in a binary format. An ASCII mode might be nice but this may increase bandwidth and processing requirements unnecessarily. Any thoughts ? Individual messages, which if enabled are automatically sent when a variable changes, would consist of a single byte header and a number (typically 1 or 2) of data bytes followed by a simple checksum. A maximum update rate for each variable would need to be specified along with the ability to send a command back to the remote unit to control whether a particular parameter is to be sent or not. This would allow a bad connection generating spurious data to be masked for example. I have in mind to set the header information up in such a fashion as to allow efficient message generation and subsequent decoding. For example, I would foresee all messages that have one data byte would use a header byte less than say 0x40, over 0x40 indicates two data bytes etc. More detail will follow soon... Comments invited! ------------------- END From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 12:49:45 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19873; Tue, 11 Apr 95 12:49:45 GMT Received: from cosmail2.ctd.ornl.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA19859; Tue, 11 Apr 95 08:49:42 -0400 Received: from a7fpc1 (a7fpc1.etd.ornl.gov [134.167.106.3]) by cosmail2.ctd.ornl.gov (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA22059 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 08:49:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 08:49:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199504111249.IAA22059@cosmail2.ctd.ornl.gov> X-Sender: a7f@cosmail2.ctd.ornl.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: a7f@ornl.gov (Jeffrey S. Armfield) Subject: Re: Protocol X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI In case you haven't heard, California Air Resources Board is starting to talk about an OBD III standard. Part of this new standard incorporates some Hughes developed remote monitoring technology. Each car will have on-board telemetry that will allow monitoring of your vehicle's diagnostics. If your "Check Engine" light turns on, you get a nice letter from CARB that tells you to get your engine fixed pronto. Jeffrey S. Armfield Development Engineer Advanced Propulsion Technology Center Oak Ridge National Laboratory P.O. Box 2009 , Oak Ridge, TN 37831-8087 Voice: (615) 574-0735 FAX: (615) 574-2102 From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 13:12:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA19926; Tue, 11 Apr 95 13:12:48 GMT Received: from [198.111.80.23] by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA19912; Tue, 11 Apr 95 09:12:45 -0400 Received: from etcv01.eld.ford.com by internet-mail.ford.com with SMTP id AA03943 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Tue, 11 Apr 1995 09:12:43 -0400 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 9:13:29 -0400 (EDT) From: PATTEEUW@etcv01.eld.ford.com To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <950411091329.210024c1@etcv01.eld.ford.com> Subject: Re: Protocol Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > Part of my EFI project is going to include a telemetry link for remote > monitoring and programming. Whilst thinking about this it occured to me > that it would be useful to make use of a standard protocol if one exists, > or alternatively to try and put one together in collaboration with people > on the net so that people can exchange monitoring tools etc. and > hopefully save some duplication of work. Ford was one of the first to use telemetry on race car (Formula 1), many years ago. Of course I can't tell you the protocol (even if I **DID** know it, which I don't). Actually there is a good discussion of low level, light weight UART based serial protocols in this months Embedded System Magazine. Jack Patteeuw From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 16:39:23 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA20782; Tue, 11 Apr 95 16:39:23 GMT Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA20768; Tue, 11 Apr 95 12:39:05 -0400 Received: by gold.tc.umn.edu; Tue, 11 Apr 95 11:37:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 11:37:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Ryan A Erickson Subject: BigBrother1 a/k/a OBD III To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <199504111249.IAA22059@cosmail2.ctd.ornl.gov> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, Jeffrey S. Armfield wrote: > > In case you haven't heard, California Air Resources Board is starting to > talk about an OBD III standard. Part of this new > standard incorporates some Hughes developed remote monitoring technology. > Each car will have on-board telemetry that will allow monitoring of your > vehicle's diagnostics. If your "Check Engine" light turns on, you get a nice > letter from CARB that tells you to > get your engine fixed pronto. > Big Brother won't be satisfied to just look over our shoulders, now he has to reach down our pants. Ryan From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 11 20:11:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA21961; Tue, 11 Apr 95 20:11:02 GMT Received: from bbfm.di.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA21947; Tue, 11 Apr 95 16:10:56 -0400 Received: from tune.di.com by bbfm.di.com (8.6.10/TD-1.12) with SMTP id NAA09775 for on Tue, 11 Apr 1995 13:11:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199504112011.NAA09775@bbfm.di.com> X-Sender: today@mail X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 13:11:02 -0700 To: DIY_EFI From: today@di.com (Todd Day) Subject: Re: Protocol Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >Each car will have on-board telemetry that will allow monitoring of your >vehicle's diagnostics. Cool! A new project! Can't wait to reverse engineer and defeat that one... Think of the aftermarket for "off road use only" gear. -todd- From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 12 04:49:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA23519; Wed, 12 Apr 95 04:49:40 GMT Received: from eskimo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA23505; Wed, 12 Apr 95 00:49:36 -0400 Received: by eskimo.com (5.65c/1.35) id AA04827; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 21:49:22 -0700 From: johnd@eskimo.com (John Dombey) Message-Id: <199504120449.AA04827@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: FAQ ? To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 21:49:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Dennison" at Apr 10, 95 03:02:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 286 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Andrew, If you could send your summary to me as well, I would appreciate it. I just subscribed a few days ago, but a friend and I are designing an efi system for our Triumph TR6's - more for fun than any real need. I hope to glean some good pointers from this list. Thanks, John From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 12 05:44:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA23631; Wed, 12 Apr 95 05:44:40 GMT Received: from kaiwan.kaiwan.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA23617; Wed, 12 Apr 95 01:44:37 -0400 Received: from kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (389@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com [198.178.203.9]) by kaiwan.kaiwan.com (8.6.9/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA03206; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 22:44:32 -0700 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Received: (from douglas@localhost) by kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA23971; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 22:44:13 -0700 *** KAIWAN Internet Access *** Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 22:44:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Black Feather Electronics To: "Jeffrey S. Armfield" Cc: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Protocol In-Reply-To: <199504111249.IAA22059@cosmail2.ctd.ornl.gov> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Tue, 11 Apr 1995, Jeffrey S. Armfield wrote: > > In case you haven't heard, California Air Resources Board is starting to > talk about an OBD III standard. Part of this new > standard incorporates some Hughes developed remote monitoring technology. > Each car will have on-board telemetry that will allow monitoring of your > vehicle's diagnostics. If your "Check Engine" light turns on, you get a nice > letter from CARB that tells you to > get your engine fixed pronto. > Since their computer isn't expecting a signal from you, unless you transmit, then it would be easy to just *snip* the transmiter out, or just put some foil over the whole thing till you decide to transmit again. Makes you wonder why these guys go through so much to try to control your life, when they can't even control their own budgets. You know that soon they are going to "outlaw" those little chips that make your car perform better, stating that you have modified SMOG equipment and that's a violation. "OK buddy, pull over.... my HC11 watchdog sniffed a illegal chip in your system, I need to search your car for contraband chip sets" I can just see it on "COPS" TV show. <- they already show guys violating people's inalienable rights, and no one says anything about it.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Black Feather Electronics | Home of the U-HC11 Microcontroller 645 Temple 7B | Boards, Kits and other 68HC11 stuff Long Beach California 90814 | Email for info or visit the www page Info & Orders: (800) 526-3717 | InterNet: BFE Tech Support: (310) 434-5641 | Web: "http://www.kaiwan.com/~douglas" From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 12 06:34:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA23703; Wed, 12 Apr 95 06:34:21 GMT Received: from eskimo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA23689; Wed, 12 Apr 95 02:34:17 -0400 Received: by eskimo.com (5.65c/1.35) id AA05182; Tue, 11 Apr 1995 23:34:11 -0700 From: gregb@eskimo.com (Greg Bengeult) Message-Id: <199504120634.AA05182@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: EFI332 To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 23:34:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: from "Andrew Dennison" at Apr 10, 95 03:02:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1536 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI According to the infinite wisdom of Andrew Dennison, > > (...intro words from H. Blemings of Oz...) > > Unfortunately there > isn't a FAQ for this list. I've got a summary of another project > that has spun off this list. This project (designated EFI332) is > aimed at the development of an EFI system which is based on the > Motorola MC68332 - a 32 bit processor with a timer subsystem ideal > for EFI. I will send the summary to you seperately. > Andrew, Please send me a copy of the summary, too. I will join the EFI332 list forthwith. I am also a new (~1 week) subscriber. I have a 1971 Triumph TR-6 that I plan to convert to port fuel injection at the same time that I install a newly rebuilt engine. I have the engine, I have some info on putting together an HC11-hosted EFI system, and I have a schedule that looks like it won't get done until about 2 years from now. Hope springs eternal ;-). Anyway, I like the idea of using a more powerful processor, so I would like to look into the 68332 design. Oh, BTW, I am an electrical engineer, specializing in embedded microprocessor system hardware and software design, and I would be happy to field pertinent questions from anyone on the list. -- Greg Bengeult // //| gregb@eskimo.com // //|| \\ // //=||= Amiga -- It's not just for breakfast anymore! \// // || From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 12 12:51:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA24101; Wed, 12 Apr 95 12:51:41 GMT Received: from oeonline.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA24087; Wed, 12 Apr 95 08:51:38 -0400 Received: by oeonline.oeonline.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0rz1nV-000AWKC; Wed, 12 Apr 95 08:45 EDT Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 08:45:00 -400 (EDT) From: Mike Wesley - SLIP Subject: Re: FW: MAP map or MAF map To: DIY_EFI Cc: "diy_efi (postings)" In-Reply-To: <2F89D8ED@gismtpgate.gi.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Mon, 10 Apr 1995, Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS) wrote: > > >> Ford sells their MAF for the 5.0 liter Mustang GT for around $150. It > can > >> flow enough for at least 210 horsepower. > > > I think the part being referred to, is an "aftermarket" MAF sold through > Ford's > > performance catalog. It has a larger bore than the standard MAF used on > the > > 5.0. > > > Jack Patteeuw > > When I quoted the $150 price, I was referring to the stock unit, ie. direct > replacement part. The 210 (+/- 10) horsepower figure is what the Mustang > can do in stock form. BZ > Actually, you can get just over 300 HP with the 'stock' MAF sensor when using the stock injectors. Mike... From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 12 13:01:44 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA24134; Wed, 12 Apr 95 13:01:44 GMT Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA24120; Wed, 12 Apr 95 09:01:41 -0400 Received: from dialup-1-59.gw.umn.edu by gold.tc.umn.edu; Wed, 12 Apr 95 08:01:24 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 08:00:21 GMT From: "Matthew Lee Franklin" Message-Id: <18079.fran0054@gold.tc.umn.edu> X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_11 X-Popmail-Charset: English To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: EFI332 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Greg Bengeult and others wrote: >> Motorola MC68332 - a 32 bit processor with a timer subsystem ideal >> for EFI. I will send the summary to you seperately. >more powerful processor, so I would like to look into the 68332 design. I have a question regarding the 'HC11 and '332 microprocessors. From hints I've heard I'm lead to believe that there are some sort of built in timers on these chips. I'm very familiar with using Intel 8254 programable interval timers in PC based, QuickBASIC and C programmed, EFI control systems. But, that is the extent of my timer knowlwdge. QUESTION: Are the built-in timers on those microcontrollers anywhere as easy to use as the separate 8254's? Please speak in laymans terms as I am a lowly ME with just enough EE to crawl. How many bits long are they and can they each use a seperate clock source? I thank you in advance for your prompt reply. Later, Matt From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 12 13:02:51 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA24157; Wed, 12 Apr 95 13:02:51 GMT Received: from oeonline.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA24143; Wed, 12 Apr 95 09:02:49 -0400 Received: by oeonline.oeonline.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0rz1yT-000BsXC; Wed, 12 Apr 95 08:56 EDT Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 08:56:41 -400 (EDT) From: Mike Wesley - SLIP Subject: Re: Protocol To: DIY_EFI Cc: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <950411091329.210024c1@etcv01.eld.ford.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Tue, 11 Apr 1995 PATTEEUW@etcv01.eld.ford.com wrote: > > Part of my EFI project is going to include a telemetry link for remote > > monitoring and programming. Whilst thinking about this it occured to me > > that it would be useful to make use of a standard protocol if one exists, > > or alternatively to try and put one together in collaboration with people > > on the net so that people can exchange monitoring tools etc. and > > hopefully save some duplication of work. > > Ford was one of the first to use telemetry on race car (Formula 1), many years > ago. Of course I can't tell you the protocol (even if I **DID** know it, which > I don't). > The protocol that Ford used in F1 is found in almost all new Ford's and is easily to get out of the ECM. I saw thier system in Brazil and it was crude (IMHO) but it got the job done. Mike... From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 18 16:38:53 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07083; Tue, 18 Apr 95 16:38:53 GMT Received: from dione.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA07069; Tue, 18 Apr 95 12:38:49 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HPHA5I24AOD6KJB5@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F93EB03@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 18 Apr 95 09:38:27 PDT Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 09:40:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box To: Robert Gallant Cc: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F93EB03@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 34 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI From: Robert Gallant To: bzublin Subject: Re: FW: Driving an MSD Ignition Box Date: Tuesday, April 18, 1995 8:10AM Hi Bryan; I was wondering what the status was on the posting of the MSD schematic. Also did you post the number of sparks vs rpm info. If so I must have missed it, could you please forward a copy to me. Thanks for the info. Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil ------------------------------------------------ Rob, The schematic is pretty much complete, I was able to fit it onto a single A size sheet. I found one mistake on my original, so I was going to compare it to the circuit board to verify. The other information on sparks vs. RPM is in a text file that I am working on. I started typing and ended up practically writing an essay on the subject! Hopefully all will be complete in a week or so. BZ Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 20 14:38:22 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA01574; Thu, 20 Apr 95 14:38:22 GMT Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA01560; Thu, 20 Apr 95 10:38:12 -0400 Received: from unauthenticated@[130.240.1.193] (osse40.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP id AA25868 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:38:02 +0200 X-Sender: set@eru.mt.luth.se Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 16:40:39 +0100 To: DIY_EFI From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: FI for BMW MC-twins Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi I'm new to this list but mabe some of you knows me from the Internet-BMW-Riders list. My Q to you, has anyone tryed to mount FI on the R100 models, maybee a Luftmeister kit or even more interesting a home made FI. ---- Sven-Erik Tiberg ----- -77 R100RS with Krausser 4 valve heads --- From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 21 18:41:26 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA04606; Fri, 21 Apr 95 18:41:26 GMT Received: from tucana.dur.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA04592; Fri, 21 Apr 95 14:41:21 -0400 Received: from venus.dur.ac.uk by tucana.dur.ac.uk id (8.6.10/ for dur.ac.uk) with SMTP; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:06:21 +0100 Received: from elgar.dur.ac.uk by venus.dur.ac.uk; Fri, 21 Apr 95 19:06:17 BST Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 19:06:15 +0100 (BST) From: G P J Collingwood To: DIY_EFI Subject: EFI for a Mini Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi! I'm new to this list, so if I'm on the wrong track please excuse me! Does anyone have any ideas on which current fuel injection systems could be modified to run on a 1400cc Mini engine, and then remapped for it? Giles Durham/Hexham UK From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 21 20:39:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA05225; Fri, 21 Apr 95 20:39:33 GMT Received: from gmlink2.gmeds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA05211; Fri, 21 Apr 95 16:39:30 -0400 Received: from kopt0017 (kopt0017.DelcoElect.com) by gmlink2.gmeds.com with SMTP id AA13337 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:38:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199504212038.AA13337@gmlink2.gmeds.com> Received: by kopt0017 (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA293676731; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:38:51 -0500 From: Jim Buchanan Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 21 Apr 95 15:38:50 CDT In-Reply-To: ; from "G P J Collingwood" at Apr 21, 95 7:06 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI [...] > Does anyone have any ideas on which current fuel injection systems could > be modified to run on a 1400cc Mini engine, and then remapped for it? > > Giles > Durham/Hexham UK Well, it's not quite EFI (it uses a really slick mechanical fuel metering system), but I'd consider getting the Bosch K-Jetronic system from a 1500/1600cc VW Rabbit/Golf engine. I'd just buy the entire vehicle if possible, one with a rusted out body and running engine might cost you less than the individual parts at a junkyard. It's a very nice system, quite dependable and adapts _very_ well to performance mods on a VW, so it seems a likely candidate for a swap to another engine. I've been thinking of adapting it to an air-cooled VW at some point in the future. Good luck! Jim Buchanan c22jrb@kopt0002.delcoelect.com jbuchana@holli.com =================== http://www.holli.com/~jbuchana ======================= "Kid, have you rehabilitated yourself?" -Arlow Guthrie =================== '73 BMW R75/5 "Frau Bluecher" ======================== From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 21 20:44:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA05295; Fri, 21 Apr 95 20:44:47 GMT Received: from devnull.mpd.tandem.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA05281; Fri, 21 Apr 95 16:44:43 -0400 Received: from trinity by devnull.mpd.tandem.com (8.6.8/8.6.6) id PAA19300; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:44:31 -0500 Received: by trinity (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA03217; Fri, 21 Apr 95 15:43:52 CDT From: joe@mpd.tandem.com (Joe Senner) Message-Id: <9504212043.AA03217@trinity> Subject: Information on Bosch Motronic systems To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 15:43:51 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "G P J Collingwood" at Apr 21, 95 07:06:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 546 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Can anyone point me at information on the layout of the prom chip in the motronic system? I'd like to do some tinkering with the one I've got. If this is proprietary, does anyone know what it takes to get some sort of aggreement with Bosch? I also suspect my unit supports several functions that the manufacturer decided to leave off, like cold idle bypass & such. Any technical information on pinouts & such would be a big help. This is a Motronic 1 system found in early 90's BMW motorcycles. -- Joe Senner http://www.onr.com/user/joe.html From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 21 20:51:31 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA05407; Fri, 21 Apr 95 20:51:31 GMT Received: from mercury.uah.ualberta.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA05393; Fri, 21 Apr 95 16:51:26 -0400 Received: from rigelras.uah.ualberta.ca by mercury.uah.ualberta.ca (5.4R3.00/200.1.1.4) id AA29255; Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:51:15 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 14:52:59 -0600 To: DIY_EFI From: agc@mercury.uah.ualberta.ca (Andrei G. Chichak) Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI At 19:06 4/21/95, G P J Collingwood wrote: >Does anyone have any ideas on which current fuel injection systems could >be modified to run on a 1400cc Mini engine, and then remapped for it? > >Giles >Durham/Hexham UK A brilliant question and one that has been much on my mind. I want to put EFI on my 1330 Cooper 'S engine and I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I am going to have to build it myself. I figure that a manifold could be cobbled together with two injectors per port, a couple of dual head coils, add an oxygen sensor in the centre branch of the exhaust, a crank sensor on the pulley, and one in what's left of the dizzy for cam position, add the obligatory throttle position sensor, and some sort of mass air flow sensor, temperature probe, knock sensor, tie it together with a bunch of glue, control it with a 68HC11, and POOF no more S.U. carbs or Lucas ignition (in theory). I have seen pictures of the Weber and Luminition systems installed on Mini's, but neither of them use any form of mixture feedback loop, plus you have to take them to a stockist to get them tuned to your engine. Many moons ago, I believe, Steven Ciciora suggested that I try a Bosch CIS system with the swinging gate metering system. This is quite a good suggestion if you had access to injectors of the appropriate size. The problem comes in with the weird intake system that a Mini has. Cylinders 1 and 2 share an intake port and 3 and 4 share the other. This makes for 180 degrees between intake cycles then a quiescent period of 360 degrees. With a CIS system that is always pissing out fuel, the first one to open will get the accumulated pissing of 360 degrees into the port, the valve opens for ~180 degrees (for arguments sake we will assume digital valves) then the valve closes and its buddy opens for ~180 degrees. Therefore the first cylinder will run richer than its buddy. The solution is to use a sequential system with two injectors per runner, shooting across the port at the valve. You would have to do quite a bit of rework on a grafted stock system, I suspect, since the capacity is so low, you have a well known knock region at about 2000 RPM, and you have siamessed intakes and half of the exhausts. Enough for now, I have less interesting things that I must attend to. Andrei -- Andrei Chichak | Information Systems agc@mercury.uah.ualberta.ca | University of Alberta Hospitals (403) 492 - 4431 (work) | 8440 112 Street Edmonton, Alberta (403) 492 - 3090 (fax) | CANADA T6G 2B7 http://cooper-s.uah.ualberta.ca From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 22 07:15:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA06751; Sat, 22 Apr 95 07:15:35 GMT Received: from mv.MV.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA06737; Sat, 22 Apr 95 03:15:31 -0400 Received: by mv.mv.com (8.6.10/mv(b)/mem-940616) id DAA11965 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 03:15:26 -0400 From: station.MV.COM!mvarc!an!adh Message-Id: <199504220715.DAA11965@mv.mv.com> Received: by station.mv.com (1.64/waf) via UUCP; Sat, 22 Apr 95 01:15:03 EST for mv!coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi Received: by mvarc.station.mv.com (1.64/waf) via UUCP; Sat, 22 Apr 95 00:08:18 EST for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini Date: Sat Apr 22 00:55 EST 1995 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Andrei Chichak said: Many moons ago, I believe, Steven Ciciora suggested that I try a Bosch CIS system with the swinging gate metering system. This is quite a good suggestion if you had access to injectors of the appropriate size. The problem comes in with the weird intake system that a Mini has. Cylinders 1 and 2 share an intake port and 3 and 4 share the other. This makes for 180 degrees between intake cycles then a quiescent period of 360 degrees. With a CIS system that is always pissing out fuel, the first one to open will get the accumulated pissing of 360 degrees into the port, the valve opens for ~180 degrees (for arguments sake we will assume digital valves) then the valve closes and its buddy opens for ~180 degrees. Therefore the first cylinder will run richer than its buddy. The solution is to use a sequential system with two injectors per runner, shooting across the port at the valve. you could weld tabs to the intake that would stick into the head and effectively divide the siamesed ports. it's been done before, i think with some of the detroit engines of the '50s. _______________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics adh@an.bradford.ma.us ---Schroedinger From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 22 12:34:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07054; Sat, 22 Apr 95 12:34:33 GMT Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA07040; Sat, 22 Apr 95 08:34:29 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HPMMRZCRYOD6LTC6@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 05:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2F98F7C7@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Sat, 22 Apr 95 05:34:15 PDT Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:00:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-Id: <2F98F7C7@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 28 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Robert Dingli wrote: > MAF systems require inlet air temp for compensation as do MAP systems. MAF > system also use a barometric pressure sensor for compensation while MAP > systems don't. Robert, I thought that one of the benefits of the MAF was that correction for barometric pressure (altitude) was NOT required. I do not have practical experience with MAFs, I am merely repeating what I have read in the literature (mainly SAE papers). Regarding the air temp compensation, isn't this inherent in the MAF because of the reference temp sensor that is upstream of the hot wire? > Ford sells there MAP for around Aus$40-50 (US$30-37). It can provide an > air flow estimate for almost any non-turbo car or bike and you still need > one for a MAF system. I agree that the MAP is the way to go for low cost and minimal restriction. It was my thought that an MAF sensor would simplify the calibration of an EFI system, assuming that one had the calibration curve for the actual sensor. I would still want to have a MAP sensor for the ignition map. Bryan Zublin General Instrument, San Diego, CA, USA bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 22 15:44:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07295; Sat, 22 Apr 95 15:44:09 GMT Received: from grolsch-2.cs.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA07281; Sat, 22 Apr 95 11:44:06 -0400 Received: (from ean@localhost) by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (8.6.10/8.6.9) id IAA10609 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 08:44:04 -0700 X400-Received: by /PRMD=ca/ADMD=telecom.canada/C=ca/; Relayed; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 8:44:03 UTC-0700 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 8:44:03 UTC-0700 X400-Originator: rodb@cs.ubc.ca X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=ca/ADMD=telecom.canada/C=ca/;950422084403] Content-Identifier: 2717 From: Rod Barman To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <2F98F7C7@gismtpgate.gi.com> Message-Id: <"2717*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map Mime-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Ean X.400 to MIME gateway) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > I thought that one of the benefits of the MAF was that correction for > barometric pressure (altitude) was NOT required. I do not have practical > experience with MAFs, I am merely repeating what I have read in the > literature (mainly SAE papers). Regarding the air temp compensation, isn't > this inherent in the MAF because of the reference temp sensor that is > upstream of the hot wire? MAF measures air MASS and does not in itself require air temperature compenstation. The confusion arises for two reasons: 1. Bosch air-vane style meters measure volume and do require temperature compensation and 2. air temperature information can still be useful to the engine management system to retard timing and reduce knock. So it is quite commone to find an air temperature sensor in most efi systems. --rod. -- Rod Barman, IRIS ISDE-6 @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 22 16:39:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA07381; Sat, 22 Apr 95 16:39:30 GMT Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA07367; Sat, 22 Apr 95 12:39:27 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08194; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:42:10 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA44462; Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:38:05 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:35:22 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map To: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Cc: "diy_efi (postings)" In-Reply-To: <2F98F7C7@gismtpgate.gi.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS) wrote: > I agree that the MAP is the way to go for low cost and minimal restriction. > It was my thought that an MAF sensor would simplify the calibration of an > EFI system, assuming that one had the calibration curve for the actual > sensor. I would still want to have a MAP sensor for the ignition map. Guys, a MAP sensor is unneeded if you have a MAF .. Take the Q signal from the MAF (Air Mass Flow in kg/hr) and do this LOAD=(Q*k)/RPM Now with the proper K for the engine (cyls, etc) LOAD will be equal to airmass per stroke ... You then use this as axis one of your ign. map and RPM as axis two! Saves a sensor .. at least on normally aspirated engines ... Jim Conforti From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 24 08:48:11 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA06677; Mon, 24 Apr 95 08:48:11 GMT Received: from tucana.dur.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA06663; Mon, 24 Apr 95 04:47:35 -0400 Received: from venus.dur.ac.uk by tucana.dur.ac.uk id (8.6.10/ for dur.ac.uk) with SMTP; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:47:06 +0100 Received: from deneb (deneb.dur.ac.uk) by venus.dur.ac.uk; Mon, 24 Apr 95 09:47:05 BST Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:47:02 +0100 (BST) From: G P J Collingwood To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini In-Reply-To: <199504212038.AA13337@gmlink2.gmeds.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 863 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Jim Buchanan wrote: > Well, it's not quite EFI (it uses a really slick mechanical fuel metering > system), but I'd consider getting the Bosch K-Jetronic system from a > 1500/1600cc VW Rabbit/Golf engine. > > It's a very nice system, quite dependable and adapts _very_ well to > performance mods on a VW, so it seems a likely candidate for a swap to > another engine. I've been thinking of adapting it to an air-cooled VW at > some point in the future. Has anyone had experience of moving this type of injection to another engine? Also does anyone know what years it was used on the VW Golf/Rabbit as my Book on EFI says that in 1988 the VW had something else fitted. Also does anyone have any opinions on how this system would perform compared to an SU carb? Giles Durham/Hexham UK 1980 Mini Clubman Estate 1398cc with 1.75" SU Carb From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 24 09:12:29 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA06729; Mon, 24 Apr 95 09:12:29 GMT Received: from eru.mt.luth.se by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA06715; Mon, 24 Apr 95 05:11:48 -0400 Received: from unauthenticated@[130.240.1.167] (osse210.mt.luth.se) by eru.mt.luth.se with SMTP id AA26676 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:11:37 +0200 X-Sender: set@eru.mt.luth.se Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:14:16 +0100 To: DIY_EFI From: set@mt.luth.se (Sven-Erik Tiberg) Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >Hi! > >I'm new to this list, so if I'm on the wrong track please excuse me! > >Does anyone have any ideas on which current fuel injection systems could >be modified to run on a 1400cc Mini engine, and then remapped for it? > >Giles >Durham/Hexham UK Hi Giles. Have you consider the Haltech programable EFI. --- sven-erik tiberg --- set@mt.luth.se --- From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 24 11:10:59 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA06876; Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:10:59 GMT Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA06862; Mon, 24 Apr 95 07:10:54 -0400 Received: from diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (diana [134.169.34.15]) by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA13277 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:10:23 +0200 Received: (from knick@localhost) by diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/8.6.10) id NAA06688 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 13:10:21 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199504241110.NAA06688@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 13:10:20 MET DST In-Reply-To: from "G P J Collingwood" at Apr 24, 95 09:47:02 am Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI wrote: > > Has anyone had experience of moving this type of injection to another engine? > Also does anyone know what years it was used on the VW Golf/Rabbit as my > Book on EFI says that in 1988 the VW had something else fitted. Also does > anyone have any opinions on how this system would perform compared to an > SU carb? Here in Germany VW used the K-jetronic from ~1975 (Golf GTI) to ~1985 when they started with the L-jetronic. Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 24 12:02:54 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA06949; Mon, 24 Apr 95 12:02:54 GMT Received: from gmlink2.gmeds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA06935; Mon, 24 Apr 95 08:02:51 -0400 Received: from kopt0017 (kopt0017.delcoelect.com) by gmlink2.gmeds.com with SMTP id AA27606 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:02:48 -0400 Message-Id: <199504241202.AA27606@gmlink2.gmeds.com> Received: by kopt0017 (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA045754984; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:03:04 -0500 From: Jim Buchanan Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 7:03:04 CDT In-Reply-To: <199504220715.DAA11965@mv.mv.com>; from "adh@station.mv.com" at Apr 22, 95 3:36 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Andrew Hay: > > Andrei Chichak said: > > Many moons ago, I believe, Steven Ciciora suggested that I try a > Bosch CIS system with the swinging gate metering system. This > is quite a good suggestion if you had access to injectors of the > appropriate size. The problem comes in with the weird intake > system that a Mini has. Cylinders 1 and 2 share an intake port > and 3 and 4 share the other. This makes for 180 degrees between > intake cycles then a quiescent period of 360 degrees. With a CIS [...] > > you could weld tabs to the intake that would stick into the head and > effectively divide the siamesed ports. it's been done before, i think > with some of the detroit engines of the '50s. Not a bad idea, but would it affect air flow? (I'm not at all familiar with this engine, let alone the details of the engine and it's head/manifold.) How about putting all four CIS injectors in a plenum under the throttle body (a plenum is required for K-jetronic anyway). You might not get ideal mixture distribution, but it would still be better than a carb (finer atomization). Lots of Detroit products do fine with single-point injection and still manage to run better than their ancestors with carburetors. Not ideal, but probably less work than the alternative. Jim Buchanan c22jrb@kopt0002.delcoelect.com jbuchana@holli.com =================== http://www.holli.com/~jbuchana ======================= "Some people will tell you that slow is good-and it might be on some days-but I am here to tell you fast is better. I've always believed this in spite of the trouble it's caused me." -Hunter Thomson =================== '73 BMW R75/5 "Frau Bluecher" ======================== From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 24 12:11:44 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA06981; Mon, 24 Apr 95 12:11:44 GMT Received: from gmlink2.gmeds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA06967; Mon, 24 Apr 95 08:11:41 -0400 Received: from kopt0017 (kopt0017.delcoelect.com) by gmlink2.gmeds.com with SMTP id AA28024 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for ); Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:11:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199504241211.AA28024@gmlink2.gmeds.com> Received: by kopt0017 (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA050175516; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:11:56 -0500 From: Jim Buchanan Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 7:11:55 CDT In-Reply-To: <2F98F7C7@gismtpgate.gi.com>; from "Zublin, Bryan" at Apr 21, 95 6:00 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Bryan Zublin: > I thought that one of the benefits of the MAF was that correction for > barometric pressure (altitude) was NOT required. I do not have practical > experience with MAFs, I am merely repeating what I have read in the > literature (mainly SAE papers). Regarding the air temp compensation, isn't > this inherent in the MAF because of the reference temp sensor that is > upstream of the hot wire? Are the air-flow sensors that use a flapper and a potentitiometer and the ones that use a counterbalanced disk in a cone doing essentially the same thing as a hot-wire MAF? I've often wondered about this. If they are, then at least in practice you can get by without measuring the barometric pressure with a MAF since most of the above-mentioned systems do not. AT least two of the above systems _do_ measure temperature, however one measures engine-block temperature, the other measures cylinder-head temperature. I assume this is for mixture adjustment as the engine warms up. Jim Buchanan c22jrb@kopt0002.delcoelect.com jbuchana@holli.com =================== http://www.holli.com/~jbuchana ======================= "Some people will tell you that slow is good-and it might be on some days-but I am here to tell you fast is better. I've always believed this in spite of the trouble it's caused me." -Hunter Thomson =================== '73 BMW R75/5 "Frau Bluecher" ======================== From owner-diy_efi Mon Apr 24 15:25:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA08267; Mon, 24 Apr 95 15:25:30 GMT Received: from mercury.uah.ualberta.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA08253; Mon, 24 Apr 95 11:25:24 -0400 Received: from rigelras.uah.ualberta.ca by mercury.uah.ualberta.ca (5.4R3.00/200.1.1.4) id AA11140; Mon, 24 Apr 1995 11:25:15 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:27:02 -0600 To: DIY_EFI From: agc@mercury.uah.ualberta.ca (Andrei G. Chichak) Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI At 18:55 3/30/22, station.MV.COM!mvarc!an!adh@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: >you could weld tabs to the intake that would stick into the head and >effectively divide the siamesed ports. it's been done before, i think >with some of the detroit engines of the '50s. There is a certian amount of this done in the casting. I suspect that the uneven mixture distribution in the siamesed head is mostly due to manifold wetting. Given an injector spraying in about the right direction should overcome this. Andrei -- Andrei Chichak | Information Systems agc@mercury.uah.ualberta.ca | University of Alberta Hospitals (403) 492 - 4431 (work) | 8440 112 Street Edmonton, Alberta (403) 492 - 3090 (fax) | CANADA T6G 2B7 http://cooper-s.uah.ualberta.ca From owner-diy_efi Tue Apr 25 05:59:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA12249; Tue, 25 Apr 95 05:59:41 GMT Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA12235; Tue, 25 Apr 95 01:59:36 -0400 Received: from localhost (steveb@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.5/8.5) id RAA29181; Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:49:19 +1200 From: Steve Baldwin Message-Id: <199504250549.RAA29181@kcbbs.gen.nz> Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 17:49:18 +1200 (NZST) In-Reply-To: <199504241211.AA28024@gmlink2.gmeds.com> from "Jim Buchanan" at Apr 24, 95 07:11:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2000 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > Bryan Zublin: > > I thought that one of the benefits of the MAF was that correction for > > barometric pressure (altitude) was NOT required. I do not have practical > > experience with MAFs, I am merely repeating what I have read in the > > literature (mainly SAE papers). Regarding the air temp compensation, isn't > > this inherent in the MAF because of the reference temp sensor that is > > upstream of the hot wire? > > Are the air-flow sensors that use a flapper and a potentitiometer and the > ones that use a counterbalanced disk in a cone doing essentially the same > thing as a hot-wire MAF? > > I've often wondered about this. > > If they are, then at least in practice you can get by without measuring the > barometric pressure with a MAF since most of the above-mentioned systems do > not. > > AT least two of the above systems _do_ measure temperature, however one > measures engine-block temperature, the other measures cylinder-head > temperature. I assume this is for mixture adjustment as the engine warms > up. > They aren't quite doing the same thing. The flapper type transducer itself measures volumetric flow while the hot wire anenometer output is directly proportional to the mass flow rate. Thus, the flapper flow meter requires additional information (density) to determine the actual mass flowrate. The density can be determined from the temperature of the incoming air (somebody's gas law applies). The upstream temp sensor in the hot wire sensor isn't there to measure the actual temperature of the incoming air but to determine the change in temperature between the heating element and the detection element. A simplified mass flow meter would consist of two sensors, one upstream and one downstream of the heating element. You would expect the down stream element to be warmer than the upstream one because of the (heat carrying) mass going in that direction. So the difference in heating at the sensor is proportional to the mass flow rate. Steve. From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 26 00:17:23 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15558; Wed, 26 Apr 95 00:17:23 GMT Received: from audrey.Levels.UniSA.Edu.Au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA15544; Tue, 25 Apr 95 20:17:14 -0400 Received: from amx.levels.unisa.edu.au by spri.levels.unisa.edu.au with ESMTP id JAA01195; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:29:13 +0930 Received: from localhost by amx.levels.unisa.edu.au id JAA07576; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:28:21 +0930 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 09:28:21 +0930 From: don@spri.levels.unisa.edu.au (Don Gossink) Message-Id: <199504252358.JAA07576@amx.levels.unisa.edu.au> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: EFI for a Mini Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI >There is a certian amount of this done in the casting. I suspect that the >uneven mixture distribution in the siamesed head is mostly due to manifold >wetting. Given an injector spraying in about the right direction should >overcome this. In reply to the first two statements, the direct answer is yes, in Vizard's "Tuning BL A series engine", David points out that the single carb feeding the siamese head has flow problems (Scotty would say I can no change the laws of physics Jim, anyway he goes further to say your twin carbs will overcome this problem and subsequently you pick up an easy 6Hp in a 1000cc and obviously more for the march larger engines. I seem to recall I contributed to an earlier discussion (perhaps it was Andrei who raised the question earlier) anyway I did give a rough diagram of how injectors should be placed and reasions why, mainly relating to swirl. I don't have the time to reproduce this but anyway who has a copy may want repost this. For those who aren't aware, SU's are no longer in manufacture so all minis produced now are EFI based, MiniSport in the U.K. do a computer module which squezes more powerout of the original EFI system (Rover use the same board over theircar range). Yet after talking to them, you still seem to pick up a lot more power by using the Weber-Alpha injection system ( yet it is very expensive). anyway gotta dash Don From owner-diy_efi Wed Apr 26 00:51:07 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15612; Wed, 26 Apr 95 00:51:07 GMT Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA15598; Tue, 25 Apr 95 20:51:03 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id KAA23056 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:50:57 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199504260050.KAA23056@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 10:50:56 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <2F98F7C7@gismtpgate.gi.com> from "Zublin, Bryan" at Apr 21, 95 06:00:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1477 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi everyone, my own misunderstanding seems to have caused a bit of confusion regarding MAF sensors. As Rod and Bryan have pointed out, the hot wire sensors operate on a different principle to the moving vane type. The types which I have been in contact with (Bosch Motronic and Ford EEC) both utilize air temp sensors and the Ford system uses a pressure sensor for barometric compensation. The Bosch is a moving vane type and the Ford (8 cyl SEFI) is a Hitachi hot wire unit which has its own air temp probe in addition to a plenum mounted sensor. The six cylinder has exactly the same sensors minus the MAF sensor and uses a speed density algorithm. In future, I'll qualify my comments by detailing the system that I've encountered first hand. As a suggestion, perhaps we could collate our collective OEM knowledge in some sort of list. For example, Make: Ford Falcon (Australian build) EA77 4.0 litre six cyl ECU: Ford EECV MPI speed density system, multi coil crank trig ignition etc. Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 344 7966 (+613) 344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 27 02:34:11 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA22333; Thu, 27 Apr 95 02:34:11 GMT Received: from holodeck.cc.vt.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA22319; Wed, 26 Apr 95 22:34:08 -0400 Message-Id: <9504270234.AA22319@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: from mcbill.async.vt.edu by holodeck.cc.vt.edu with SMTP (8.6.10/16.2) id WAA24865; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:34:04 -0400 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 22:34:04 -0400 X-Sender: mcbill@mail.vt.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: mcbill@vt.edu (Garrett McWilliams) Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Steve wrote: >The upstream temp sensor in the hot wire sensor isn't there to measure >the actual temperature of the incoming air but to determine the change >in temperature between the heating element and the detection element. >A simplified mass flow meter would consist of two sensors, one upstream >and one downstream of the heating element. You would expect the down >stream element to be warmer than the upstream one because of the (heat >carrying) mass going in that direction. >So the difference in heating at the sensor is proportional to the mass >flow rate. > I had thought the MAF sensor measured how much current it took to keep the heated wire at a constant temperature, i.e. more air going through cools it off more -> more current to maintain temp of the wire. Is this also used or am I way off base? Garrett McWilliams From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 27 03:23:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA22436; Thu, 27 Apr 95 03:23:12 GMT Received: from azstarnet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA22422; Wed, 26 Apr 95 23:23:08 -0400 Received: from dialup34.azstarnet.com (dialup34.azstarnet.com [169.197.1.34]) by web.azstarnet.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id UAA29751 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:23:16 -0700 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 20:23:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199504270323.UAA29751@web.azstarnet.com> X-Sender: gar@azstarnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: gar@AZStarNet.com (Garry Peterson) Subject: ECM to hack Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hacker's special! For Sale- ECM and harness from 89 Camaro TPI 350/th700R4 Last year of the mass air units. Complete ECM with prom, harness, and wiring diagram. For $50 plus shipping, I will C.O.D. it to your door. For more info, write gar@azstarnet.com I may be slow to respond (1 week?), so please be paitent. From owner-diy_efi Thu Apr 27 08:31:07 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA22848; Thu, 27 Apr 95 08:31:07 GMT Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA22834; Thu, 27 Apr 95 04:31:02 -0400 Received: from localhost (steveb@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.5/8.5) id UAA22306; Thu, 27 Apr 1995 20:20:47 +1200 From: Steve Baldwin Message-Id: <199504270820.UAA22306@kcbbs.gen.nz> Subject: Re: MAP map or MAF map To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 20:20:46 +1200 (NZST) In-Reply-To: <9504270234.AA22319@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> from "Garrett McWilliams" at Apr 26, 95 10:34:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1437 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > Steve wrote: > >The upstream temp sensor in the hot wire sensor isn't there to measure > >the actual temperature of the incoming air but to determine the change > >in temperature between the heating element and the detection element. > >A simplified mass flow meter would consist of two sensors, one upstream > >and one downstream of the heating element. You would expect the down > >stream element to be warmer than the upstream one because of the (heat > >carrying) mass going in that direction. > >So the difference in heating at the sensor is proportional to the mass > >flow rate. > > > > > I had thought the MAF sensor measured how much current it took to keep > the heated wire at a constant temperature, i.e. more air going through cools > it off more -> more current to maintain temp of the wire. Is this also used > or am I way off base? > Not at all. What I described was the 'original' hot wire anenometer. The next extension of the principle goes something like ....'Hmmmm. I can generate the heat by passing a current through a resistive wire. I can also measure the temperature of the wire by measuring its resistance. Therefore heater and sensor can be the same wire. So why can't I heat the wire and measure the current needed to maintain a steady temperature/resistance. QED. ' This is the hot wire anenometer. The thin film version is closer to the original layout. Steve. From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 28 20:24:07 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28126; Fri, 28 Apr 95 20:24:07 GMT Received: from relay1.UU.NET by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA28112; Fri, 28 Apr 95 16:23:59 -0400 Received: from gateway.prior.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQynlp29361; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 16:20:35 -0400 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08562; Fri, 28 Apr 95 16:08:12 EDT Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma008560; Fri Apr 28 16:07:42 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13553; Fri, 28 Apr 95 16:10:48 EDT Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA22139; Fri, 28 Apr 95 16:12:25 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 16:12:25 -0400 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9504282012.AA22139@ivan.gallium.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Announcing EngSim for Windows Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI I have ported Bruce Bowling's engsim program to MicroSoft Windows, and wrapped a nice data entry front end, and a graphical backend around it. I will be making the executable and documentation available early next week. If I get a chance to clean up the code enough, I will also post the full source code. It has been compiled using Borland C 3.1 for Windows. I will be getting BC 4.5 tonight, so it will be clean for the lastest version as well. It compiles with no errors or warnings, so it should be easy to move to another compiler (VC?). I am very interested in comments and constructive critisism so that future versions meet your needs. Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi Fri Apr 28 21:24:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA28346; Fri, 28 Apr 95 21:24:24 GMT Received: from tucana.dur.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA28332; Fri, 28 Apr 95 17:24:20 -0400 Received: from venus.dur.ac.uk by tucana.dur.ac.uk id (8.6.10/ for dur.ac.uk) with SMTP; Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:23:48 +0100 Received: from pahang.dur.ac.uk by venus.dur.ac.uk; Fri, 28 Apr 95 22:23:47 BST Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 22:23:46 +0100 (BST) From: G P J Collingwood To: DIY_EFI Subject: Injection & Compression Ratios Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi again, I read that an advantage of injection is that it allows the use of higher compression ratios. Ok I also know that when you turbocharge an engine you want a relatively low compression ratio (but why?). Hence: I am going to try my hardest to put K-Jetronic Mechanical FI on my 1398 A Series (Mini) engine. This (very modified) engine runs a 10.5 : 1 compression ratio, and the mini specialist reckons 11 : 1 is the best managable on ordinary fuel. When I put on the injection will this mean that the engine COULD run a compression ratio of say 12:1 or higher, hence 10.5:1 is relatively low and will be okay for running a turbo? The K-Jetronic is supposed to cope well with a turbo as it gives the engine the same air/fuel mixture, independent of the amount of air/fuel mixture ingested. Many thanks to anyone who can educate me on anything I've got wrong and thanks for dashing my hopes too!! Giles Durham/Hexham UK 1980 Mini Clubman Estate 1398cc From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 29 01:05:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA11876; Sat, 29 Apr 95 01:05:48 GMT Received: from jsun.agen.okstate.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA11862; Fri, 28 Apr 95 21:05:44 -0400 Received: by jsun.agen.okstate.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00115; Fri, 28 Apr 95 20:06:37 CDT Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 20:06:37 CDT From: gcouger@agen.okstate.edu (Gordon Couger) Message-Id: <9504290106.AA00115@jsun.agen.okstate.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Injection & Compression Ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI In WWII it was common to use water injection to prevent detonation. I am not sure but I believe that propane can run without detonation at 17 to 1 or better. You have to run propane on the rich side to keep from melting down your combustion chamber and valves. High horse power ag tractor engins have real serious problems with exsuast valve cooling. Running an engin on both propane and gasoline has been done with good results this might help you to run a higher compression ratio. You could carburate the propane in the intake are and inject the gasoline. The way it was done in pickups was to use a Holly carb that had sepreate float chambers and plumbing for the front and back barrels and only shut of the gasoline to the front two barrels and leave the back two working on propane just like they did on gasoline. Guys that were pulling trailers liked this combo. Gordon From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 29 20:41:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA15993; Sat, 29 Apr 95 20:41:16 GMT Received: from tucana.dur.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA15979; Sat, 29 Apr 95 16:41:12 -0400 Received: from venus.dur.ac.uk by tucana.dur.ac.uk id (8.6.10/ for dur.ac.uk) with SMTP; Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:40:55 +0100 Received: from altair (altair.dur.ac.uk) by venus.dur.ac.uk; Sat, 29 Apr 95 21:40:54 BST Date: Sat, 29 Apr 1995 21:40:53 +0100 (BST) From: G P J Collingwood To: DIY_EFI Subject: Turbos Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 306 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Hi, does anyone know of a similar list with dicussions about turbos? and is there any way of determining if an engine is capable of taking a turbo except by putting one on and seeing if the exhaust valve melts or what? (Sorry its not EFI related.) Giles Durham/Hexham UK 1980 Mini Clubman Estate 1398cc From owner-diy_efi Sat Apr 29 23:09:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA16443; Sat, 29 Apr 95 23:09:56 GMT Received: from gold.tc.umn.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA16429; Sat, 29 Apr 95 19:09:52 -0400 Received: from dialup-2-150.gw.umn.edu by gold.tc.umn.edu; Sat, 29 Apr 95 18:09:35 -0500 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 18:08:01 GMT From: "MLF" Message-Id: <17513.fran0054@gold.tc.umn.edu> X-Minuet-Version: Minuet1.0_Beta_11 X-Popmail-Charset: English To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Turbos Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI Giles wrote: >does anyone know of a similar list with dicussions about turbos? There is a very good (but a little old now) book on turbos by someone named Hugh McGinnis (spelling?). He is a mechanical engineer so it is technically pretty accurate, but he writes so even I can understand it. >and is there any way of determining if an engine is capable of taking a >turbo except by putting one on and seeing if the exhaust valve melts or what? Sorry its not EFI related.) One thing to check is the number of main bearings supporting the crankshaft. An inline four or V8 should have five from what I've heard. If it is a really old design, and has only three, you are hosed -- then look for a newer design engine to swap and adapt in. There are other limitations, like head gasket reliability... Also, you wouldn't have to crank the snot out of the boost right away. Gradually build up and see what it can handle. There are probably aftermarket exhaust (and intake) valves available made with premium alloys to handle that stress. Matt From owner-diy_efi Sun Apr 30 20:51:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) id AA18423; Sun, 30 Apr 95 20:51:42 GMT Received: from hawk.depaul.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (920330.SGI/920502.SGI) for /usr/local/mail/majordomo-1.92/wrapper filter id AA18409; Sun, 30 Apr 95 16:51:39 -0400 Received: (c394b13@localhost) by hawk.depaul.edu (8.6.10/8.5) id PAA09496; Sun, 30 Apr 1995 15:54:13 -0500 From: Nikolay Nesterov Message-Id: <199504302054.PAA09496@hawk.depaul.edu> Subject: Re: Turbos To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun, 30 Apr 1995 15:54:12 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "G P J Collingwood" at Apr 29, 95 09:40:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 575 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI > > Hi, > does anyone know of a similar list with dicussions about turbos? > and is there any way of determining if an engine is capable of taking a > turbo except by putting one on and seeing if the exhaust valve melts or what? > (Sorry its not EFI related.) > > Giles > Durham/Hexham UK > 1980 Mini Clubman Estate 1398cc > > > If you do find one, please let me know. I have an '86 SVO Mustang which comes (well came) with a 2.3L four cyl turbo "hi-perf" engine. Many things about its fuel injection are a mystery to me so a turbo list is very needed. thanks -Nick