From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jun 1 11:44:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA22417; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:42:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from merlin.nando.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA22412; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 07:42:49 -0400 Received: from cooldave.nando.net (grail914.nando.net) by merlin.nando.net (4.1/davel-nando/Jan95) id AA01699; Thu, 1 Jun 95 07:42:16 EDT Message-Id: <9506011142.AA01699@merlin.nando.net> X-Sender: cooldave@mailhost.nando.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 07:26:30 -0500 To: diy_efi From: cooldave@nando.net (David Cooley) Subject: Re: OEM EFI computers Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >>I am wondering if the GNX really used the 6801, or if >>it was really a 6811. Anyone know this for sure? > >I think that that CPU was referred to as the GMP4, >it was a custom for GM, that used a 6801 core. > >ed >-- On the GN from 84 thru 87 including the 87 1/2 GNX, they used the GM P3.. The P4 was used after 87, including the Syclone and Typhoon. (91-93) Later, Dave =================================================================== David Cooley AKA N5XMT Fax: (919) 319-2896 Powered by WINDOWS 95! VM: (800) 753-6336 cooldave@nando.net EXT. 2718 cooley@opsusa.sms.siemens.com =================================================================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jun 1 13:54:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA25864; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:51:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA25859; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 09:51:27 -0400 Message-Id: <199506011351.JAA25859@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: fwd: Info on GM Vehicle Computers Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 09:51:27 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Please send postings to diy_efi@coulommb.eng.ohio-state.edu. Thanks. ------- Forwarded Message Received: from news1.mnsinc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA10627; Wed, 31 May 1995 23:53:12 -0400 Received: from localhost (mail@localhost) by news1.mnsinc.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) id BAA06840 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 01:00:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199506010500.BAA06840@news1.mnsinc.com> Received: from allent.mnsinc.com(199.164.210.98) by news1.mnsinc.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006838; Thu Jun 1 01:00:29 1995 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "David Allen" Organization: allent To: owner-diy_efi-outgoing Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 23:51:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Info on GM Vehicle Computers Reply-to: allent@news1.mnsinc.com X-Confirm-Reading-To: allent@mnsinc.com X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.0-WB3) I am seeking basic information on reading and decoding the single line serial output data of the Assembly Line Diagnostic Link (ALDL) in my 1988 Chevy Van. Although interestting, I am not as concerned about modifying the EPROM or getting at the CPU innards or operation -- I just want to know how I can deciper the data stream. It seems it should be a repetitive or cyclic data burst marked by framing bits. Any steer or information you could shed on this would be appreciated. I would like to fiddle with decoding the data and perhaps using some Visual Basic, providing a windows-based readout, as close as possible to real-time. Many Thanks, Dave Allen WA2BSL allent@mnsinc.com ------- End of Forwarded Message From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jun 1 15:28:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA28672; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 15:26:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from igate1.hac.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA28663; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:26:30 -0400 Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15900; Thu, 1 Jun 95 08:24:37 PDT Received: from hyperion.hdos.hac.com by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01HR6OG06RM80033TF@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Thu, 01 Jun 1995 08:26:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from daedalus.hdos.hac.com by hyperion.hdos.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10784; Thu, 1 Jun 95 11:27:46 EDT Received: From HDOS_DPC/WORKQUEUE by daedalus.hdos.hac.com via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950601112339.448; 01 Jun 95 11:25:58 +0500 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:20:58 ET From: John T Stein Subject: re: Re: Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR To: diy_efi Message-Id: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Wrote: > | > | > | Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com writes: > | > I've seen this exact problem in two '86 4x4 S-10 blazers (3.8 > | v6?) and an '88 > | > corsica (also 3.8 v6?). I never thought it was related, but > | now I wonder. > | > This probably belongs on rec.auto.tech, but since someone else > | brought it up, > | > I thought I'd offer my piece. Anyway, the symptom is > | hesitation just off > | > idle. Give it a little more throttle and it is cured, but it > | persists as long > | > as the the throttle is held barely open. It is a feature on > | the corsica > | > (had the problem since new), may be a bug or feature on the > | blazers, since > | > they were used by the time I drove them. > | > | Hmmm, 86 & 88 GM 2.8 V6? Don't those have the infamous GM MAF disease? > | If so, you need to the update PROM that converts the EFI over to speed > | density. > | > | -- > | Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu > | http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 I don't think the problem was MAF-related, or even unique to FI engines, the '83 2.8 L V6 on which I first saw the problem had a carburator (remember those??). Also, the stumble appeared to be a transient issue, if one held the throttle static just "off idle" the engine would stumble but eventually get its act together. It was almost as if the EGR valve "overshot", over-diluting the fuel / air mixture when confronted with the sudden application of vacuum when the throttle plate first uncovered the EGR. port and eventually settled to a stable point which did not over-dilute the mixture. Does this mechanism sound reasonable? If so, anyone have suggestions to correct it, short of putting the EGR under ECM control. A restriction in the EGR vacuum feed (a pneumatic low-pass) is not a contender as the EGR valve has an internal vacuum bleed. Thanks, John From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jun 1 16:11:52 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA29991; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 16:10:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gw2.att.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA29986; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 12:10:40 -0400 Received: from uscbu.ih.att.com ([135.1.218.100]) by ig1.att.att.com id AA09347; Thu, 1 Jun 95 12:10:31 EDT Received: from usgp1.ih.att.com by uscbu.ih.att.com (4.1/EMS-1.1.1 SunOS) id AA28628; Thu, 1 Jun 95 11:09:26 CDT Received: by usgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA02328; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:09:42 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:09:42 -0500 Message-Id: <9506011609.AA02328@usgp1.ih.att.com> From: bohdan@uscbu.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar) To: diy_efi Subject: re: Re: Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu OK...now you've perked my interest. Try the following as a failure mechanism: 1). EGR valve has carbon deposits 2). Normal EGR control vacuum (AVERAGE vacuum) slightly off idle and no load on engine is about 5" Hg 3). You open the throttle 4). Backpressure transducer applies control vacuum to the valve; however, the deposits prevent it from opening (or cause it open VERY slowly) 5). More control vacuum is applied 6). Valve snaps open, "over-EGR-ing" the engine 7). Engine stumbles, valve now operates more-or-less normally, control vacuum drops back to roughly what it should be. The 5" Hg is typical for engines at very light load and just off of idle. Higher readings suggest a malfunction in the transducer or restricted valve or EGR tube venting to atmosphere instead of the valve assembly. Incidently, some PWM controlled EGR valves don't have a control vacuum line; the EGR flow is inferred from MAF readings (and probably a bunch of other things). Cordially, Bohdan Bodnar From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jun 2 23:46:18 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA03571; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 23:42:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA03566; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 19:42:01 -0400 Received: by egate1.eds.com (hello) id TAA09000; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 19:41:50 -0400 Received: by igate1.eds.com (hello) id TAA06847; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 19:41:49 -0400 Received: from koppa1.delcoelect.com by kocrsv01.delcoelect.com with SMTP id AA11389 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/CORE for ); Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:41:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199506022341.AA11389@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> Received: from KOPPA1/P_MAIL by koppa1.delcoelect.com (Mercury 1.1); Fri, 2 Jun 95 18:43:16 EST From: "The Chou duo" Organization: Delco Electronics To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:42:49 EST Subject: Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows v1.11 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > | > | Hmmm, 86 & 88 GM 2.8 V6? Don't those have the infamous GM MAF disease? > | If so, you need to the update PROM that converts the EFI over to speed > | density. > | > | -- > | Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu > | http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 Could someone shed some light on this? What update PROM that converts from MAF to speed density? Did we (GM) do this? Any info would be helpful as I'm trying to do this very thing! *********************************************************************** Tom (or Nellie) Chou, nachou@koppa1.delcoelect.com (317)451-7970 (Tom), 7619 (Nel), 317-868-9672 (evenings) Unless indicated otherwise, the opinions expressed here are personal & NOT an official statement of General Motors / Delco Electronics. *********************************************************************** From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jun 3 00:05:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA03645; Sat, 3 Jun 1995 00:04:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA03640; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 20:04:10 -0400 Received: by egate1.eds.com (hello) id UAA10232; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 20:04:10 -0400 Received: by igate1.eds.com (hello) id TAA06855; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 19:48:20 -0400 Received: from koppa1.delcoelect.com by kocrsv01.delcoelect.com with SMTP id AA11592 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/CORE for ); Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:48:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199506022348.AA11592@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> Received: from KOPPA1/P_MAIL by koppa1.delcoelect.com (Mercury 1.1); Fri, 2 Jun 95 18:49:46 EST From: "The Chou duo" Organization: Delco Electronics To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 18:49:20 EST Subject: Re: OEM EFI computers Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows v1.11 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ======================================================== >>I am wondering if the GNX really used the 6801, or if >>it was really a 6811. Anyone know this for sure? > >I think that that CPU was referred to as the GMP4, >it was a custom for GM, that used a 6801 core. > >ed >-- On the GN from 84 thru 87 including the 87 1/2 GNX, they used the GM P3.. The P4 was used after 87, including the Syclone and Typhoon. (91-93) Later, Dave ===================================================================== That's not quite correct - it wasn't called a GMP3, it was the GMCM (GM Custom Micro). I don't think we ever had a processor named GMP3. *********************************************************************** Tom (or Nellie) Chou, nachou@koppa1.delcoelect.com (317)451-7970 (Tom), 7619 (Nel), 317-868-9672 (evenings) Unless indicated otherwise, the opinions expressed here are personal & NOT an official statement of General Motors / Delco Electronics. *********************************************************************** From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jun 3 00:47:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA03797; Sat, 3 Jun 1995 00:46:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from merlin.nando.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA03792; Fri, 2 Jun 1995 20:46:20 -0400 Received: from dcooley.sms.siemens.com ([165.226.14.74]) by merlin.nando.net (4.1/davel-nando/Jan95) id AA26884; Fri, 2 Jun 95 20:45:46 EDT Message-Id: <9506030045.AA26884@merlin.nando.net> X-Sender: cooldave@mailhost.nando.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 02 Jun 1995 20:48:05 -0400 To: diy_efi From: cooldave@nando.net (David Cooley) Subject: Re: Off-idle stumble resulting from ported EGR Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Could someone shed some light on this? What update PROM that >converts from MAF to speed density? Did we (GM) do this? Any info >would be helpful as I'm trying to do this very thing! Tom, There was a TSB for the 2.8's with the MAF system, that called for a replacement eprom... The new eprom disabled the maf, and it could be removed... I believe it was done on the fiero's before any others were affected... I have the eprom part numbers at home... I'll post them tomorrow. Later, Dave ============================================================================== David Cooley AKA N5XMT (919) 319-2734 Office cooldave@nando.net (919) 319-2896 FAX Powered by WINDOWS 95! (800) 753-6336 VM ============================================================================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jun 6 03:33:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA03728; Tue, 6 Jun 1995 03:31:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA03653; Mon, 5 Jun 1995 23:31:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199506060331.XAA03653@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi, efi332 Subject: [admin] Intermittent list service for the next month Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 23:31:07 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- As always, summers are a very busy time for me and Coulomb (the computer servicing our mailing list). During the next month, you can expect intermittent list service as Coulomb will not always be available. I recommend posting as usual, but don't be surprised by response time delays. Your local mailer should queue your email (typically for up to 7 days) until this computer is back on line. I will try to bring the system back in the evenings as often as is practical. My apologies for the inconvenience.... For those interested, Coulomb provides data storage and image processing services for one of the radars we use to make radar cross section measurements (RCS). During the next month, we will be making outdoor RCS measurement at the OSU "Big Ear" radio telescope (which we use as a LARGE compact range). John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jun 6 14:11:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA06139; Tue, 6 Jun 1995 14:09:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA06134; Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:09:23 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA26255; Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:09:22 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:09:22 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9506061409.AA26255@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Event loops Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu A question on event loops in OEM EFI's...... There appears to me that there are several methods to handle the global "events" of computing injector pulse widths and timing. Some that come to mind are the following (I am assumimg a model similar to the '332 TPU section, which handles the timing of injector firing and provides interrupts for events like TDC.) Note: the names for each of the methods I picked out of my head..... Method 1: 360/720 degree firing: One computes ALL of the FI parameters (table lookups, etc) for all of the injectors once a crankshaft revolution (batch) or once every two revolutions (sequential). Method 2: 90 degree firing: When injector N is firing, compute the firing parameters for injector N+1. Method 3: Priority computation: Re-compute when something changes - sample TPS, MAP and other sensors which have quick response at a higher rate than slower-changing sensors such a water temp. There are other..... So what method(s) do the OEM use? ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jun 6 15:12:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA06385; Tue, 6 Jun 1995 15:09:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bbfm.di.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA06380; Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:09:35 -0400 Received: from tune.di.com by bbfm.di.com (8.6.10/TD-1.13) with SMTP id IAA20387 for on Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:09:21 -0700 Message-Id: <199506061509.IAA20387@bbfm.di.com> X-Sender: today@mail.di.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 08:10:30 -0700 To: diy_efi From: today@di.com (Todd Day) Subject: Re: Event loops Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >So what method(s) do the OEM use? >Method 2: 90 degree firing: When injector N is firing, compute the firing >parameters for injector N+1. This is what the DSM (Eagle Talon and clones) ECUs do. The computation is made from several other precomputed variables at the end of each firing interrupt. There is a slow loop (non-interrupt driven) that is constantly updating all the variables that the interrupt routine needs (and does the relatively slow jobs of table lookup, etc). The Audi Quattro in the early 80's does this too. I suspect it might be a popular way of doing things since it is very straight forward and almost all CPUs these days have enough HP to do it. -todd- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jun 7 17:13:28 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA09385; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 17:03:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from web.azstarnet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA09380; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:03:41 -0400 Received: from dialup78.azstarnet.com (dialup78.azstarnet.com [169.197.1.78]) by web.azstarnet.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id KAA22985 for ; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 10:03:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 10:03:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199506071703.KAA22985@web.azstarnet.com> X-Sender: gar@azstarnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: gar@AZStarNet.com (Garry Peterson) Subject: Weather Pack Connectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local GM dealer has limited availibility and high pricing. Thanks, Garry From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jun 7 17:53:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA09510; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 17:52:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cicerone.uunet.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA09505; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:51:56 -0400 Received: from gateway.prior.com ([142.77.252.4]) by cicerone.uunet.ca with SMTP id <170393-2>; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:53:10 -0400 Received: by gateway.prior.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20339; Wed, 7 Jun 95 13:45:55 EDT Received: from odin.gallium.com(192.139.238.33) by gateway.gallium.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020337; Wed Jun 7 13:45:32 1995 Received: from ivan.gallium.com by odin.gallium.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11756; Wed, 7 Jun 95 13:44:02 EDT Received: by ivan.gallium.com (931110.SGI/930416.SGI) for @odin.gallium.com:diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id AA09341; Wed, 7 Jun 95 13:51:33 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:51:33 -0400 From: MSargent@gallium.com (Michael F. Sargent) Message-Id: <9506071751.AA09341@ivan.gallium.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu MSD uses some very nice wheather resistant connectors on their marine equiptment. You can order packages with one male and one female connector, with from 1 to 6 conductors, or you can order bulk pack (10 or 25 per pack I think). Summit Racing carries them, and their prices are quite good. However, if you need something to mate to existing GM connectors, this won't help much. Mike +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Michael F. Sargent | Net: msargent@gallium.com | Phone: 1(613)721-0902 | | Gallium Software Inc.| | FAX: 1(613)721-1278 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jun 7 18:44:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA09614; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 18:42:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from merlin.nando.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA09609; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 14:42:19 -0400 Received: from dcooley.sms.siemens.com ([165.226.14.74]) by merlin.nando.net (4.1/davel-nando/Jan95) id AA17914; Wed, 7 Jun 95 14:42:14 EDT Message-Id: <9506071842.AA17914@merlin.nando.net> X-Sender: cooldave@mailhost.nando.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 14:42:37 -0400 To: diy_efi From: cooldave@nando.net (David Cooley) Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local >GM dealer has limited availibility and high pricing. > >Thanks, >Garry There is a guy on Compuserve, name is John Flagg.. Owns or works for GMPP parts.. They make wiring harnesses and connectors, and have ALL the weatherpack connectors etc. at really good prices.. Don't have his number though.. Later, Dave ============================================================================== David Cooley AKA N5XMT (919) 319-2734 Office cooldave@nando.net (919) 319-2896 FAX Powered by WINDOWS 95! (800) 753-6336 VM ============================================================================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jun 7 19:09:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA09695; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 19:04:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cebaf4.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA09690; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:04:25 -0400 Received: by cebaf4.cebaf.gov (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01344; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:04:05 -0400 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:04:05 -0400 From: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) Message-Id: <9506071904.AA01344@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Electromotive sells some Weatherpack connectors, but at a price that compares with gold or silver - Bruce From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jun 7 19:53:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA09830; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 19:51:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA09825; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:51:43 -0400 Received: by egate1.eds.com (hello) id PAA28165; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:51:42 -0400 Received: by igate1.eds.com (hello) id PAA29997; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:51:42 -0400 Received: from koiasw15.delcoelect.com by kocrsv01.delcoelect.com with SMTP id AA15698 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/CORE for ); Wed, 7 Jun 1995 14:51:41 -0500 Received: by koiasw15.delcoelect.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03972; Wed, 7 Jun 95 14:51:41 EST From: "Lawrence E. Piekarski" Message-Id: <9506071951.AA03972@koiasw15.delcoelect.com> Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 14:51:40 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9506071842.AA17914@merlin.nando.net> from "David Cooley" at Jun 7, 95 02:42:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 760 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local >GM dealer has limited availability and high pricing. > >Thanks, >Garry > When I have ordered test instrumentation from third party vendors, I believe they purchased all their "GM" parts from Pioneer Electronics. I don't know if Pioneer will sell to anyone, or just third party suppliers to GM. All the vendors I have dealt with are in Indianapolis, so if the Pioneer in your area doesn't know anything about them, try the one in Indy. Other big GM cities include Detroit, Dayton, and Flint. -- (* Larry Piekarski, Lead Software Engineer *) (* Luxury Car HVAC Display Heads *) (* c1ilep@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com *) (* Delco Electronics, Kokomo, IN *) From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jun 7 21:23:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA10432; Wed, 7 Jun 1995 21:20:25 GMT Return-Path: Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 21:20:25 GMT Message-Id: <199506072120.VAA10432@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: derek_deeter@MENTORG.COM (Derek Deeter) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Three places, one of which ought to be able to help you out: Dr. K's Automotive Wiring Systems No. 11 Lakefront Ave. Gasden, AL 35903 (205) 543-7165 (800) 323-9384 -------------------------------- Centech, INC. Perkiomenville, PA 800-356-0356 (orders) 215-287-5730 (info) 215-287-6707 -------------------------------- Ron Francis Wires Works 800-292-1940 (order line) 215-485-1937 (info line) -- Derek Deeter derekd@wv.mentorg.com Mentor Graphics Corp. 8005 S.W. Boeckman Rd., Wilsonville, OR 97070-7777 From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jun 8 08:52:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA11877; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:46:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eskinews.eskimo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA11872; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 04:46:54 -0400 Received: from grue.UUCP by eskinews.eskimo.com (5.65c/1.35) id AA18855; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 01:46:53 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Lane To: DIY_EFI Subject: Still Subscribed Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Am I still subscribed to this list? (as blane@eskimo.com)? If so I need to be switched to blane@guetech.com, if not I need to be added. Pardon me for the interruption :) Brian --- G.U.E. Technical Institute / Electronics / Privacy / IF / (206)845-xxxx From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jun 8 13:01:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA12160; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 12:58:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA12154; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:56:27 -0400 Received: from process.paume.itb.ac.id (process.paume.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.106]) by maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA03293 for ; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 19:51:35 GMT Received: from PROCESS/SpoolDir by process.paume.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Thu, 8 Jun 95 19:51:56 +0700 Received: from SpoolDir by PROCESS (Mercury 1.12); Thu, 8 Jun 95 19:51:48 +0700 From: "Ucu M Subrata" To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 19:51:44 +007 Subject: Re: Still Subscribed Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Message-ID: <3547BF75F8@process.paume.itb.ac.id> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date sent: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 23:32:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: Brian Lane > To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Still Subscribed > Send reply to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Am I still subscribed to this list? (as blane@eskimo.com)? If so I need > to be switched to blane@guetech.com, if not I need to be added. > > Pardon me for the interruption :) > > Brian > > --- > G.U.E. Technical Institute / Electronics / Privacy / IF / (206)845-xxxx > Hi, nice to meet you..(and all of you) I've just subscribe this mailing list a few hour ago (found it from www) I'm now doing a modification to "Toyota Kijang"(Indonesia-produced Toyota Car) for CNG(Compressed Natural Gas/Methane) Injection System Does CNG fuel popular there??..(in Indonesia we have plenty of CNG sources but still CNG hasn't become a popular alternative fuel for motorcar here) See you Ucu M Subrata Research Engineer *Lab.of Combustion Engine and Propulsion System Institut Teknologi Bandung, Jl.Ganesha 10 BANDUNG,40116.INDONESIA Ph/Fax:62-22-2503394 *Lab.of IC Processing, Inter University on Microelectronics Institut Teknologi Bandung,Jl.Ganesha 10 BANDUNG,40116.INDONESIA Ph:2504987 ext 1371 Fax:2508763 From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jun 8 14:08:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA12340; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 14:03:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devnull by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA12335; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 10:03:18 -0400 Received: from trinity by devnull (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA10857; Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:03:02 -0500 Received: by trinity (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA23466; Thu, 8 Jun 95 09:03:11 CDT From: joe@mpd.tandem.com (Joe Senner) Message-Id: <9506081403.AA23466@trinity> Subject: Re: Still Subscribed To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:03:10 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Brian Lane" at Jun 7, 95 11:32:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 492 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ] Am I still subscribed to this list? (as blane@eskimo.com)? If so I need ]to be switched to blane@guetech.com, if not I need to be added. ] ] Pardon me for the interruption :) ] ] Brian geez, sorry. I run the bmw motorcycle list and neglected to look at the headers of the message. ignore my post :-) I get so many of those it's hard to remember to distinguish... sorry to all again... -- Joe Senner http://www.onr.com/user/joe.html Put your bones on the line, ride US129 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jun 11 07:13:50 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA19603; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 07:08:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.computek.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA19598; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 03:08:48 -0400 Message-ID: <9506110123.AA25264@ns1.computek.net> Received: from computek.net by ns1.computek.net; Sun, 11 Jun 95 01:23 CDT X-Sender: ricrain@computek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 3913 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI Date: Sun, 11 Jun 95 01:23 CDT From: ricrain@computek.net (Ric Rainbolt) Subject: Custom EFI project Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi. I've been lurking this group for about a month and now I have some questions. I am building a custom EFI computer for a car of mine that currently has mechanical fuel injection and a simple electronic-advance system with distributors. I would like to give you some background information on my endeavours. The engine that I am using as my test bed is an aluminum 3.0 litre 90 deg. V-8, with aluminum two-valve DOHC heads. I am currently in the process of rebuilding the motor to strengthen the bottom end. When done, it will have a billet forged crankshaft, forged aluminum pistons with a 7.2:1 compression ratio. I am converting it to electronic port fuel injection and distributorless ignition. After I have the engine operating with normal aspiration, I will be adding a pair of Garrett turbochargers (hence the low C/R) plumbed through at least one air-to-air intercooler (air-to-water is also a possibility). Also, I am converting the lubrication system from wet sump to dry, though this has no impact on the EFI! :-) I will be using eight Bosch fuel injectors (19lb/hr @ 3 bar). Fuel pressure will be 3-6 bar, controlled by the EFI. Oh, yea, pump gasoline 91 octane or better. Redline will be 8500 RPM. Boost pressure will be limited to 1 bar. Expected output is 380-400 HP, up from 205 HP. The CPU I have selected, due to exposure and access to tools, is a Phillips SAB80C167 (or C167). If you are not familiar with the C167, it has: 16-bit 10 MIPS sustained, 16-channel 10-bit A/D, 5 timer/counters, PWM, 2 capture/compare units, 50+ I/O lines, etc. Should be more than adequate, eh? Here's how I'm going to proceed (once the engine is rebuilt): ** STAGE I ** First, I'm going to get the engine to crank and idle (800 PRM). At this time, I will be using the stock ignition system, which is known good. So, basically all I'll need to implement is a group fired (1 bank of 8; i.e. all together) injection scheme to meter fuel the same way an "electronic carburetor" works. The sensors that will be used are: Throttle position sensor (TPS), system voltage (SYSV), exhaust Lambda (O2), top-dead-center (TDC), manifold pressure (MAP) and engine speed (RPM). At this time, coolant and air temp will be ignored. Any guestimates as to initial pulse duration (duty cycle) for the injectors to idle?? ** STAGE II ** Next, I will create a "basic" fuel map that is linearly proportional to manifold pressure and RPM (in other words, estimated airflow). Then I will run the engine at varying engine speeds from idle to 6500 RPM under no load and tweak the fuel map to achieve stochiometry. After this, "Throttle Pump" and "Decelerative Fuel Cut" will be implemented. ** STAGE III ** Next, I will rewrite the fuel injection control to drive the injectors as 4 banks of 2. The OEMs do this and I have read that, other than cutting the driver count in half, it provides cooling for the intake valve by wetting with the out-of-phase pulse. Is this true or should I opt for true sequential injection?? ** STAGE IV ** Then, I will add adjustments for the fuel curves for changes in intake air temp (IAT), coolant temp (CLT), just-after-start enrichment and system voltage (SYSV). ** STAGE V ** Saturn V? No, stage five. I will now to remove the stock igniton modules and connect them to a test harness which will be controlled by a PC. I will step through all MAP and RPM values and record the OEM ignition advance map. Then, I will program this in as my "base" map into my EFI and test my EFI using the same harness to verify the implementation. Now to install my ignition components on the engine and say "goodbye" to the distributors forever! ** MORE LATER *** Any questions, comments, flames or information?? Any help welcome. I'm willing to share results of anything I learn from this, including choice of electronics and sensors. Ric Rainbolt ricrain@computek.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jun 11 12:03:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA19898; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 12:01:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA19888; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 07:59:26 -0400 Received: from process.paume.itb.ac.id (process.paume.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.106]) by maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA28433 for ; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 18:58:45 GMT Received: from PROCESS/SpoolDir by process.paume.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Sun, 11 Jun 95 18:56:21 +0700 Received: from SpoolDir by PROCESS (Mercury 1.12); Sun, 11 Jun 95 18:55:44 +0700 From: "Ucu M Subrata" To: diy_efi Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 18:55:35 +007 Subject: Re: Custom EFI project Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Message-ID: <7C5A8C5B02@process.paume.itb.ac.id> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date sent: Sun, 11 Jun 95 01:23 CDT > From: ricrain@computek.net (Ric Rainbolt) > Subject: Custom EFI project > Send reply to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Saturn V? No, stage five. > I will now to remove the stock igniton modules and connect them to a test > harness which will be controlled by a PC. I will step through all MAP and > RPM values and record the OEM ignition advance map. Then, I will program > this in as my "base" map into my EFI and test my EFI using the same harness > to verify the implementation. > Now to install my ignition components on the engine and say "goodbye" to the > distributors forever! > > ** MORE LATER *** > > Any questions, comments, flames or information?? Any help welcome. I'm > willing to share results of anything I learn from this, including choice of > electronics and sensors. > > Ric Rainbolt > ricrain@computek.net > > Hi, nice to meet you.. I've been working on nearly the same project as you do.(Distibutorless Ignition with knock control and EFI (planned for CNG(Compressed Natural Gas)-Methane-Injected at approx 6 bar(Storage is 200 bar) I use the following type of sensors: Manifold Press(MAP) : MPX 5100 DP from Motorola (0-1500mBar) TDC : UGN3140 Hall-Effect Sensor from...(I forgot) Intake Air temp. : LM335 Zener,precision voltage sensor (10mV/K) TPS : Ordinary Potentiometer (linear type) Knock : from BOSH/Audi (I forgot the type), also Accelerometer from "Metrix"(Both Piezoelectric) (MAP,knock sensor are hard to find here, I have to order to USA :-( How about the sensors you are using? By the way, are you considering to use Knock feed-back to obtain the optimum Spark Advance Map for your engine? I did data acquisition (by PC) to obtain the optimum SA Map with the following procedure: 1. Record the knock frequency with accelerometer + data recorder and play- back to Spectrum Analyzer to obtain the specific frequency correlated to knock. (I had 9.2 Khz for the Ford Laser 10R engine measured)-it has a little shift in freq.as the temperatue change. 2. Build the signal conditioning electronic circuit to process the knock signal from accelerometer (amp,filter,peak detector) 3. Running the engine at various RPM and Load. At each pair of RPM and Load I use PC to set the Spark Advance, step by step to a more advance SA value, and when the knock is detected(by accelerometer and the circuit) the PC program stop advancing and record the SA advance before the knock occur as the optimal SA(the optimal SA is right before knock occur). 4. When the SA control running accelerometer+circ still used to detect knock (which may occur because of various engine condition) If knock occur, it retards the timing I used coil pack from mitsubishi (consists of 2 coil, 1 coil for 2 spark plug) Ok,...I'll wait for your reply ... From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jun 11 13:23:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA20026; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 13:20:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from igate1.hac.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA20021; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 09:20:52 -0400 Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21501; Sun, 11 Jun 95 06:18:30 PDT Received: from hyperion.hdos.hac.com by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01HRG8TO9HKW000H88@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Thu, 08 Jun 1995 04:46:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from daedalus.hdos.hac.com by hyperion.hdos.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13543; Thu, 8 Jun 95 07:48:35 EDT Received: From HDOS_DPC/WORKQUEUE by daedalus.hdos.hac.com via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950608074426.448; 08 Jun 95 07:46:45 +0500 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 07:41:44 ET From: John T Stein Subject: Re: Weather Pack Connectors To: diy_efi Message-Id: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anybody know of a good source of GM Weather Pack Connectors? The local > GM dealer has limited availibility and high pricing. > > Thanks, > Garry > > I have seen SOME of the weather pack types sold in "peg-board" display packaging at my local car parts retailers. They were marketed (repackaged??) by one of the major automotive electrical parts retailers, Kem I believe. If you need small quantities, this may be OK. good luck, John From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jun 11 21:21:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA20876; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 21:19:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA20871; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 17:19:48 -0400 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA09545; Sun, 11 Jun 1995 17:19:44 -0400 Date: 11 Jun 95 17:18:11 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Custom EFI Project Message-ID: <950611211811_100341.377_EHQ158-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Ric Rainbolt wrote: >I will be using eight Bosch fuel injectors (19lb/hr @ 3 bar). Fuel >pressure will be 3-6 bar, controlled by the EFI. Do you know the flow rate at 3.6bar? do you anticipate requiring fuel in excess of 19lb/hr? My initial thoughts follow. Feel free to criticise as i'm learning too! If you are trying to implement a crank and idle strategy for yor engine I think it will be necessary to look at TPS (to start with a switch contact indicating closed throttle will do), TDC and RPM. SYSV will have an impact but you will need to evaluate the change in your specific injectors flow rate with varying voltage. MAP should be used to compensate for atmospheric pressure before start commences. If you don't anticipate operating at altitude it makes life easier to forget it. Engine coolant temperature should, I think be pulled forwards from stage 4 of your implementation as the mixture requirements do vary wildly with temperature. My own vehicle indicates a change from approximately 0.8:1 at -40 deg C to 16.8:1 at 104 deg C. At 0 deg C the ratio is approximately 9.2:1. Initially ignoring the O2 sensor would make sense as it would not give a useful output until the sensor gets warm. Are you intending to close loop control with a 3 way catalyst eventually? Calculation time! For basic fuelling lambda will need to be controlled around 1.0 which implies 14.7:1 air to fuel ratio. Assuming 100% volumetric efficiency: Calculate for one cylinder Each cylinder measures 0.375 litre In one cycle it will consume 0.375 litre of air One cycle is 2 engine revolutions 800 revolutions per minute is 400 cycles 400 cycles is 400 x 0.375 litre = 150 litres/minute The density of air at 15 deg C is 1.225kg / m-3 1 m3 is 1000 litres therefore 150 litres is: 150 x 1.225/1000 = 0.18375 kg/minute For 14.7:1 air to fuel ratio the injector would need to supply per hour: 0.18375kg x 60min/hr /14.7 = 0.75kg The injectors flow 19lb/hr = 8.6kg/hr 0.75kg assuming linear flow/time characteristic is: 0.75/8.6kg is 8.7% on time The injector on time will therefore need controlling to give: at 0 deg C 14.7/9.2 x 8.7% = 14% on time at 104 deg C 14.7/16.8 x 8.7% = 7.6% on time Obviously we cannot expect 100% volumetric efficiency so mixtures will tend to be slightly richer than predicted so shorter times would be required. Martin Evans 100341.377@compuserve.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 12 19:16:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA22755; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:13:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.computek.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA22750; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 15:13:22 -0400 Message-ID: <9506121328.AA18555@ns1.computek.net> Received: from computek.net by ns1.computek.net; Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:28 CDT X-Sender: ricrain@computek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 1142 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:28 CDT From: ricrain@computek.net (Ric Rainbolt) Subject: Re: Custom EFI Project Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Ric Rainbolt wrote: > >>I will be using eight Bosch fuel injectors (19lb/hr @ 3 bar). Fuel >>pressure will be 3-6 bar, controlled by the EFI. > > > >Calculation time! > > > >Obviously we cannot expect 100% volumetric efficiency so mixtures will tend to >be slightly richer than predicted so shorter times would be required. Your calculations are correct but you failed to consider one important factor... at idle the throttle is closed and the motor is only pumping air at about 25-30% efficiency (0.3 bar absolute MAP * 90% efficient motor = 27%). However, it did prod me into remembering something important about my fuel calculations and now I am planning on adding a second set of injectors (also 19 lb/hr) to compensate for fuel flow under boost. After all at 1 bar of boost, the motor will be operating at nearly 180% pumping efficiency. At 8500 RPM, there is no reasonable pressure the single set of injectors can be run at to obtain correct mixture. By the way, I am using 11.5:1 as maximum enrichment (at operating temp) and of course 14.7:1 as stoch. Any comments? Ric Rainbolt ricrain@computek.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 12 20:00:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA22847; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:55:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA22842; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 15:55:49 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA10415; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:58:31 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA70945; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:54:18 -0600 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 13:52:39 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: Wide range EGO sensor/meter To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that use the UEGO type sensors ... You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ... I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much poorer I'm going to be .. Jim Conforti From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 12 20:18:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA22910; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:16:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from nsk.kodak.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA22905; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:16:50 -0400 Received: by nsk.kodak.com id AA18107 (5.67b+/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:09:49 -0400 Received: from khis_ns.khis.kodak.com(192.232.112.2) by nsk.kodak.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018100; Mon Jun 12 16:09:31 1995 Received: from dal-gw.dal.khis.Kodak.COM by khis_ns.khis.kodak.com with SMTP id AA20418 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:19:43 -0400 Received: from dal.khis.kodak.com (alamo.dal.khis.kodak.com) by dal-gw.dal.khis.kodak.com with SMTP id AA13691 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Mon, 12 Jun 1995 15:14:54 -0500 Received: from khan.khis.com by dal.khis.kodak.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11247; Mon, 12 Jun 95 15:16:15 CDT From: king@khis.Kodak.COM (Robert King) Message-Id: <9506122016.AA11247@dal.khis.kodak.com> Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 15:16:42 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Jim Conforti" at Jun 12, 95 01:52:39 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 433 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that > use the UEGO type sensors ... > > You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ... > > I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much > poorer I'm going to be .. About 2 grand for the Horiba setup. Mike Wesley of C&M Racing has a product called "Lambda View" that does the same thing for $650. -- Robert King From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 12 22:37:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA23147; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 22:34:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-3.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA23142; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:34:32 -0400 Received: by arl-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA27131; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 18:34:31 -0400 Date: 12 Jun 95 18:32:40 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Custom EFI Project Message-ID: <950612223240_100341.377_EHQ52-2@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Ric Rainbolt wrote commenting on calculations by Martin Evans: >>Your calculations are correct but you failed to consider one important factor... at idle the throttle is closed and the motor is only pumping air at about 25-30% efficiency (0.3 bar absolute MAP * 90% efficient motor = 27%).<< Big mistake by me, mentioned the MAP and then failed to take it into account.....it was a diesel you were controlling wasn't it .....no the partial brain failure must have been from the excess of beer celebrating Alesi's first GP win yesterday! Just as a comparison my vehicle with a 1.6L turbo with dual fired injectors, 0.65 bar boost continuous and 0.9bar short duration overboost idling at 950rpm uses injector pulse widths of 1.5 - 2 msec at idle. I haven't looked at their flow rate but suspect they are considerably in excess of 10kg/hr. Are you sure your injectors correctly sized for your application as you now mention another 8 injectors (or do you have shares in Bosch?) What drivers are you using for your injectors? Martin Evans From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 12 23:30:00 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA23217; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:28:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dons.ac.usfca.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA23212; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:28:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199506122328.TAA23212@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:22:29 -0700 (PDT) From: poetma00 In-Reply-To: from "Jim Conforti" at Jun 12, 95 01:52:39 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 418 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that > use the UEGO type sensors ... > > You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ... > > I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much > poorer I'm going to be .. Quite significant :-). I was given a quote for Horiba meter for about $2000 or more. I too was interested, but then ..... Markus Poetiray From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 12 23:43:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA23266; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:40:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.computek.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA23261; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:40:43 -0400 Message-ID: <9506121755.AA00945@ns1.computek.net> Received: from computek.net by ns1.computek.net; Mon, 12 Jun 95 17:55 CDT X-Sender: ricrain@computek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 652 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 17:55 CDT From: ricrain@computek.net (Ric Rainbolt) Subject: Re: Custom EFI Project Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Are you sure your injectors correctly sized for your application as you now >mention another 8 injectors (or do you have shares in Bosch?) > >What drivers are you using for your injectors? > If I go with a 35 lb injector, the idle will suffer terribly. 19 lb is perfect for this application with normal aspiration. This is why I chose 19 to start with, but now I want to run 1 bar boost, and don't want to kill the good idle characteristics. No stock in Bosch, but I am able to get the injectors for $25/ea, not too bad. The injector drivers are (will be) Power MOSFETs, they don't even need heat sinks, but I am putting one in! Ric Rainbolt From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jun 13 00:08:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA23340; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 00:07:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA23335; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:06:26 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA00649; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:06:16 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/MERCMAIL by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 13 Jun 95 10:06:17 +1000 Received: from MERCMAIL by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 13 Jun 95 10:06:13 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:06:06 EST+10 Subject: Re: Custom EFI project Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.20-pr2) Message-Id: <2E24C7A48B5@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Hi. I've been lurking this group for about a month and now I have some > questions. I am building a custom EFI computer for a car of mine that > currently has mechanical fuel injection and a simple electronic-advance > system with distributors. Check out the EFI332 project that some of us are working on. We are using the MC68332 with a timer system perfect for EFI and free software tools. I maintain a Web page for the project: http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/wwwhome/aden/efi332/efi332.html or (slightly shorter and should work) http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/~aden/efi332/efi332.html I'll keep pushing the Web page until people complain :) You can subscribe to EFI332 which in on the same Majordomo as DIYEFI. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jun 13 03:22:14 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA24043; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 03:21:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA24038; Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:21:15 -0400 Message-Id: <199506130321.XAA24038@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi cc: jsg Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:52:39." Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 23:21:15 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- In message , you writ e: | | Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that | use the UEGO type sensors ... I called Horiba almost two years ago. The MEXA110 analyzer was $8800. The most inexpensive item was $2500, but at the time that was not a standard off the self item so I wasn't able to get any more information. John De Armond spoke once of a Motes unit (made in Australia imported by JGM Automotive Tooling, 5692 Buckingham Drive, Huntington Beach CA 92649, (714) 895 7001. This was much cheaper but I can't seem to find the price... Also try Epcom Corp., PO Box 47032, Oak Park Michigan 48237, (313) 257 0627. A model 10630 air/fuel analyzer for about $1000. Please post what pricing information you find... John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jun 16 22:32:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA01603; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:19:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA01598; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 18:19:05 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA07062; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:20:02 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA125483; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:15:50 -0600 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:13:52 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: Wide Range EGO Sensors .. Part II To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have any info on the existing (available) wide range EGO sensors to determine A/F ratio and/or modes for making a std. HEGO sensor read a wider range of lambda values .. Jim Conforti PS: Yes, I'm trying to design my own, since it's going to be interfacing to my laptop anyway ... From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jun 16 22:46:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA02100; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:33:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linus.mitre.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA02095; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 18:33:19 -0400 Received: from jackson.mitre.org (jackson.mitre.org [129.83.12.14]) by linus.mitre.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA04528; Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:18:58 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jackson.mitre.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA03076; Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:18:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199506151618.MAA03076@jackson.mitre.org> To: diy_efi, n.mulvana@e-eng.hull.ac.uk Subject: Re: computer project Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:18:54 -0400 From: "Roberto L. Landrau" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I am very interested in doing something similar to the project described by Nigel on his message of 23 May 1995 (a computerized MPG meter). I was contemplating the idea of adding a flow meter to the fuel line, but that causes a problem: not all of the fuel that goes through the fuel filter is injected; some of it goes back to the tank. I would need two very accurate fuel sensors and take the difference between the two. This doesn't seem to be very practical. I have the same inputs that Nigel mentioned (pulse train proportional to speed and injector signals) except I don't know if I can use the inujector pulse width to determine fuel flow. With constant fuel pressure, I presume the flow rate is proportional to the pulse width, offset by the injector "dead" or "turn-on" time. The fuel pressure in my car varies as a fuction of vacuum (or intake air pressure) level. Would I have to add a fuel pressure sensor in order to compute fuel flow? In case it matters, the engine is a Mitsubishi 2.0l DOHC turbo and the application is the 1st generation Eclipse/Talon/Laser family. -------- Roberto L. Landrau landrau@mitre.org From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jun 16 22:57:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA02432; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:45:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from unix1.bART.nl by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA02427; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 18:45:30 -0400 Received: from dyna-26.bart.nl (dyna-26.bart.nl [194.72.68.145]) by unix1.bART.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA19062 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:02:24 +0200 Message-Id: <199506161702.TAA19062@unix1.bART.nl> X-Sender: jsturs@bart.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 06:56:10 -0100 To: DIY_EFI From: jsturs@bart.nl (Jim Sturcbecher) Subject: GM 1227730 ECM needed Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone out there have a GM 1227730 ECM they would part with. It does not need to be working or have the calpack as long as all the electronics are there. Am willing to pay for a clean example. Contact me direct on jsturs@bart.nl Later, Jim Sturcbecher jsturs@bart.nl From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jun 16 23:32:52 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA03816; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 23:20:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA03811; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:20:16 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0sLbam-000CxUC; Tue, 13 Jun 95 14:25 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Wide range EGO sensor/meter To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 14:25:40 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199506122328.TAA23212@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> from "poetma00" at Jun 12, 95 04:22:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 846 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu poetma00 writes: > > > Does anyone know the approx. cost of those Horiba (sp?) lambda meters that > > use the UEGO type sensors ... > > > > You know a REAL sensor, vs. a std. "stoich." sensor ... > > > > I'm about to crack totally and BUY one, but was curious as to how much > > poorer I'm going to be .. > Quite significant :-). I was given a quote for Horiba meter for about > $2000 or more. > I too was interested, but then ..... Wow, the price has really come down on those... I think they were around $10k back in 92 when got one at UTexas. Worth every penny, tho. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jun 17 00:57:28 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA04853; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:45:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA04848; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:45:38 -0400 Received: from pm2-17.magicnet.net (pm2-17.magicnet.net [204.96.116.107]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA27062 for ; Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:38:48 -0400 Message-Id: <199506132038.QAA27062@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:11:26 -0400 To: diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Custom EFI project Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I gave up trying to follow all of the maths involved in the injector sizing, but, when tuning the 4 Cylinder Cosworth motors in England, we got 350 HP from 350cc/min injectors which I beleive are 35 Lb/Hr. There are only 4 of them. If you use 16 off 19 lb / hour injectors you are going to have a lot of fuel flowing into the engine. Are you sure you need them? The other thing was you said the fuel pressure would be controlled electronically by the EFI unit to change from 3 to 6 bar. Why? and How? Peter Wales Superchips Inc "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jun 17 02:19:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA05318; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 02:13:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA05313; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 22:13:34 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by ARIEL.GI.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #7516) id <01HRS99T83WGG3D0RZ@ARIEL.GI.COM>; Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <2FE2394F@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Fri, 16 Jun 95 19:09:19 PDT Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 19:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: computer project To: "diy_efi (postings)" Cc: "n.mulvana" Message-id: <2FE2394F@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 25 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Roberto L. Landrau landrau@mitre.org writes: > With > constant fuel pressure, I presume the flow rate is proportional to > the pulse width, offset by the injector "dead" or "turn-on" time. > The fuel pressure in my car varies as a function of vacuum (or intake > air pressure) level. Would I have to add a fuel pressure sensor in >order to compute fuel flow? You need to determine the "duty cycle" of the injectors to calculate the flow rate. For example, if an injector is firing every 10 mS, and the ON pulse width is 1 mS, the duty cycle is 10%. Therefore, it is flowing 10% of its maximum flow rate (this ignores the dead time). Of course, you need to know what the maximum flow rate of the injectors is in order to complete the calculation. This can be measured if you have an injector, fuel pump, and pressure regulator. I think that you can assume that the pressure is relatively constant, because most EFI systems have a fuel pressure regulator that is referenced to the intake manifold (I think this is what you were referring to). This maintains the same pressure across the injector. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jun 17 22:47:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA06742; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 21:36:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from sirius.UVic.CA by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA06737; Sat, 17 Jun 1995 17:36:39 -0400 Received: from uglv.UVic.CA by sirius.UVic.CA (4.1/SMI-4.1-Engr.UVic.CA-L) id AA01744; Sat, 17 Jun 95 14:36:30 PDT Date: Sat, 17 Jun 95 14:36:30 PDT From: pbjorn@sirius.UVic.CA (Paul Bjorn) Message-Id: <9506172136.AA01744@sirius.UVic.CA> To: diy_efi Subject: GM prom code Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Can anyone tell me how to work with the hex code that is in a stock GM PROM, such as the one used in a 1991 Firebird, ECU part no 1227730 ?. I have a Prom reader, and have downloaded the data. I need to find out what locations in the Prom control what, with intention of modifying fuel and spark parameters to accomodate modifications. Also, when viewing a stock GM calpak, there are 3 chips mounted on a plastic carrier, I know the 28 pin unit is the Prom, but the 14 and 16 pin units remain unidentified. RAM maybe ? any help is greatly appreciated Thanks Paul Bjorn From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jun 18 08:10:14 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA07524; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 08:03:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mv.mv.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA07519; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 04:03:49 -0400 Received: by mv.mv.com (8.6.10/mv(b)/mem-940616) id EAA14212 for mv!coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 04:03:47 -0400 From: inforail.MV.COM!mvarc!an!adh Received: from mvarc by inforail.mv.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0sMzSS-000OvWC; Sat, 17 Jun 95 11:06 EDT Apparently-From: inforail!mvarc!an!adh Received: from an by mvarc.mv.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0sMzBJ-0002jCC; Sat, 17 Jun 95 10:49 EDT Message-Id: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 95 10:49 EDT Apparently-From: inforail!mvarc!an!adh To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Custom EFI project Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Ucu M Subrata" I did data acquisition (by PC) to obtain the optimum SA Map with the following procedure: 3. Running the engine at various RPM and Load. At each pair of RPM and Load I use PC to set the Spark Advance, step by step to a more advance SA value, and when the knock is detected(by accelerometer and the circuit) the PC program stop advancing and record the SA advance before the knock occur as the optimal SA(the optimal SA is right before knock occur). i've heard that optimum SA is actually a few degrees short of knock. is this true or false? if you have cruise control, could you use a straight and level [or constant grade] road as a 'rolling dyno'? hold a constant speed and watch the injector-pulse/throttle-pos as you walk the spark timing back and forth. --- is anyone working on lpg injection? just curious... _______________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics adh@an.bradford.ma.us ---Schroedinger From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 19 00:38:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA08562; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 00:31:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA08557; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 20:31:20 -0400 Received: from dancer.Dartmouth.EDU (dancer.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.7]) by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA00254 for ; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 20:31:19 -0400 Message-id: <17009904@dancer.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 18 Jun 95 20:31:18 EDT From: Alexander.M.Lichstein@Dartmouth.EDU (Alexander M. Lichstein) Subject: Re: computer project To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I am planning an i8052/SSI 67F687 based EFI with ignition as well for an Engineering project. Any good recources (books, papers) to get me up to speed? Where should I get sensors/actuators from etc. It is a 600cc engine with a max. 20mm venturi at the throttle body. Any special ideas to deal with this restrictor? Sorry to be so general, but I need some help to steepen my learning curve. - Z From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 19 03:03:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA08733; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 03:01:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA08722; Sun, 18 Jun 1995 22:56:10 -0400 Received: from process.paume.itb.ac.id (process.paume.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.106]) by maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA04301 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 09:51:02 GMT Received: from PROCESS/SpoolDir by process.paume.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 19 Jun 95 9:49:26 +0700 Received: from SpoolDir by PROCESS (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 19 Jun 95 9:49:24 +0700 From: "Ucu M Subrata" To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 09:49:19 +007 X-pmuue: EFI.HTM X-finfo: DOS,"EFI.HTM",,,,Text Subject: Literature Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Message-ID: <48DC622E69@process.paume.itb.ac.id> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu * This message contains the file 'EFI.HTM', which has been * uuencoded. 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M;G1E9W)A=&5D($-I&EB;&4L M('1H92`V-T8V.#<@=VEL;"!A8V-E<'0@82!V87)I971Y(&]F('-E;G-O7!E2!O9B!T:&4@ M0T*9')I M=F4@<&]W97(@9&5V:6-E#H@("`X,3,M,S4U+3,Q,C`-"D$@8V]M<&QE=&4@;&EN92!O9B!S96YS;W)S M+@T*#0I-0S,S,S0@26=N:71I;VX@8V]N=')O;&QE2!C:&%R9V5D M(&9O'0@6]U="!S;V9T=V%R92X- M"DAA7-T96TO M;7-D;W,OFEP+"!P861S<&-B+GII<"X@1'5N;F\@=VAA="!T:&4@=F5R M2`O<'5B+VUS9&]S+V=N=2]G8V,M9&]S M+6TV.&L-"CQHF]N:2P@5R!2:6)B96YS+"!&($-O;FYO;&QY+"!E=&,I#0I&;W)D("\@ M4FEC87)D;R`H02!"96%U;6]N="P@02!.;V)L92P@02!38V%R:7-B6]U2!V M97)Y#0IS=7-C97!T:6)L92!T;R!N;VES92!A;F0@;75L=&EP;&4@97AT7-T96T@:7,@=F5R>2!I;6UU;F4@=&\@;F]I7,@:6X@=&AE(&5N9VEN92!D>6YA;6EC&AA M=7-T('=H:6-H(&ES(&-U2!P87-S:6YG#0IT:&4@14=/('-E;G-O MGIL92!*+`T*0V]O:R!* M(&%N9"!$;V)B:6YS($LL($%M97)I8V%N($-O;G1R;VP@0V]N9F5R96YC92`Q M.3DP('!P(#(X.#$M,C@X-BX-"@T*+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM M+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM+2TM 2+2TM+2TM+2T-"CPO<')E/@T* end From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jun 19 06:26:36 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA08987; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 06:24:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA08980; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 02:21:31 -0400 Received: from process.paume.itb.ac.id (process.paume.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.106]) by maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA04878 for ; Mon, 19 Jun 1995 13:19:44 GMT Received: from PROCESS/SpoolDir by process.paume.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 19 Jun 95 13:17:58 +0700 Received: from SpoolDir by PROCESS (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 19 Jun 95 13:17:55 +0700 From: "Ucu M Subrata" To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 13:17:47 +007 X-file: EFI.HTM X-finfo: DOS,"EFI.HTM",,,,Text Subject: Literature Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Message-ID: <4C561F66EA@process.paume.itb.ac.id> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu EFI books and publications

EFI books and publications

This is a list of books and articles gathered from the diy_efi list. If you have any other titles, please let me know.

Very much under construction. Please be patient while I sort through all this;)

Comments/additions welcome. 


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Books
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Adler et al, "Automotive Electric/Electronic Systems", Robert
Bosch GmbH, Stuttgart, Germany, ISBN 0-89883-509-7, 1988.
  This is the "red" handbook.
  Covers all forms of automotive systems.  Good general reading with
  excellent coverage of basic functions like starters, alternators,
  ignition, sparkplugs.  Covers some detail of Bosch's fuel injection
  systems.  Available   from the SAE on sale for $19 (order B-528).

Adler et al, "Automotive Handbook, 3rd Edition", Robert Bentley,
Cambridge, MA, ISBN 0-8376-0330-7, 1993.
  This is the "blue" handbook which used to be pocket size.
  Covers all forms of automotive design and systems.  Good reference
  source, but expressed in metric.  Has conversion tables.  Covers 
  materials well.  Some data on emissions (478-489) similar to 2nd 
  Edition.  Also has data on some of the representative automobiles from
  various world companies in back section.   Available from the SAE for 
  $29 (order BOSCH3). Price for SAE members is $23.

Adler	"Emission Control for Spark-Ignition Engines", "Bosch Technical
 Instruction", Robert Bosch, Stuttgart, Germany, 1985.
 Covers basics of emissions, EGR, and catalytic converters.  Also
 briefly covers K-Jetronic, KE-Jetronic, L-Jetronic, LH-Jetronic,
 Mono-Jetronic, and Motronic systems.  Sections on other measures, testing
 and regulations.

Adler, U., "Battery Ignition Systems", "Bosch Technical Instruction",
 Robert Bosch, Stuttgart, Germany, 1971.
 Covers the basics of ignition systems in basic breaker systems and
 simple electronic versions.  Good general data on spark requirements.

Adler, U., "Electronic Battery-Ignition Systems", "Bosch Technical
 Instruction", Robert Bosch, Stuttgart, Germany, 1976.
 Covers more advanced electronic ignition systems.  Good general data
 on spark requirements.

DaRosa -- Fundamentals of Energy Processes
  Very general, with an excellent chapter or two on combustion, and
  lots of other source of energy discussion.   $60

Heywood, J.B., "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals", McGraw-Hill,
USA, ISBN 0-07-028637-x, 1988.
  College text on IC engine design and theory.  General reference on
  engine topics.  Also contains many references to other works.  Available
  from the SAE for $69 (order B-526).

Lenz, D.H.P., "Mixture Formation in Spark-Ignition Engines", SAE,
Warrendale, PA, ISBN 1-56091-188-3, 1992.
  Excellent text on carbureation, combustion and fuel infection concepts.
  Some important data on emissions (70-74, 249-251) with description of
  trends over years.  This book also published by  Springer-Verlag/Wien,
  NY, who translated it from German (Lenz, Gemischbildung bei Ottomotoren)
  in 1990.  Available from SAE on sale for $55 (order R-113).  Price for
  SAE members is $45.  I actually bought a copy for $39 at the SAE Congress
  last month.

Probst, C.O., "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management", Robert
Bentley, Cambridge, MA, ISBN 0-8376-0300-5, 1989.
  Covers most of the Bosch systems from D-Jetronic through Motronic. 
  Covers variety of vehicles.  Has good section in begining on combustion
  and emissions information, but a better description is in other BOSCH
  texts and sources.  Available from the SAE on sale for $19 (order B-557).

Jeff Hartman,"Fuel injection - Installation, Performance tuning,
Modifications"    ISBN 0-87938-743-2
Publisher Motorbooks international, PO Box 1, Osceola, WI 54020
1-800-826-6600 (in the US), Reccomended Price $19.95 US.
  Probably the best value for money book on EFI. The book has snippets
  of everything - If it had detail on all the subjects it mentioned
  it would be the definitive reference. The Audience is intended as
  street rodders mainly, but there are good bits and peices for the 
  DIY_EFI'er - Reccomended reading.


Probst, C.O., "How to Understand, Service and Modify Ford Fuel
Injection and Electronic Engine Control", Robert Bentley, Cambridge, MA,
ISBN 0-8376-0301-3, 1993.
  Covers basic engine control theory and Ford systems to 1988.
  Excellent book on topic.  Similar to author's other work on Bosch
  systems.  Available from SAE for $30 (order B-584).

Watson, B., "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection", Motorbooks
International, Osceola, WI, ISBN 0-87938-570-7, 1992.
  Covers most of the Bosch systems from D-Jetronic through LH-Jetronic. 
  Mainly aimed at VW.  Has good section in begining on testing electronic
  components.  Minimal amount of emissions information  - better description
  is in other BOSCH texts and sources.  Cost $19.95 in 1994.

Electronic controls and sensors: proceedings of the SAE International
Congress and Exposition (1992:  Detroit, MI).  ISBN 1-56091-215-4.  
  This book is 120 pages long.  Unfortunately, I do not have it (yet) as 
  it is in an ATT library in NJ whereas I'm in IL!  If you choose to purchase
  it, the ISBN and title should be sufficient for a bookstore to track it
  down.  I recall this book has some articles on nifty research done in
  universities in Europe on adaptive controls and some stuff on a truly
  exotic oxygen sensor which allows more than bang-bang control of the
  a/f mixture.

Laser/Talon Tech Info Manual
  Call 1-800-626-1523 and ask for the 1990 Laser/Talon Tech Info Manual
  part number 81-699-9039.  Shipping will probably be more than the
  cost of this ~200 page book.  They take plastic.

Adler, Ulrich, _Electronic Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda
 Closed-Loop Control, L-Jetronic:  Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH,
 copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226008-4.  (yellow book, 20 numbered pages; this
 is written on the back cover:  "English translation of the German edition
 dated:  September 1985.")


Adler, Ulrich, _Mechanical Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda
 Closed-Loop Control, K-Jetronic:  Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH,
 copyright 1981, ISBN 1-85-226030-0.  (yellow book, 24 numbered pages; this
 is written on the back cover:  "English translation of the 2nd German
 edition dated:  September 1985.")


Adler, Ulrich, _Combined Ignition and Fuel-Injection System with Lambda
 Closed-Loop Control, Motronic:  Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH,
 copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226009-2.  (yellow book, 44 numbered pages; this
 is written on the back cover:  "English translation of the 2nd German 
 edition from September 1985.")


_Bosch Electronic Fuel Injection Systems, Shop Manual_, , Motorbooks
 International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1986, ISBN 0-87938-237-6.
 (maintenance manual for Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Datsun, Mercedes, Opel,
 Porsche, Renault, Saab, Volkswagen, and Volvo, model years 1970 - 1979).


Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection
 Troubleshooting Guide: Import Vehicles_, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona,
 1989, ISBN 1-55561-031-5.  (chapter contents include Bosch D, K, KE, L,
 LH, and Digifant (Japanese and European); Daihatsu; Honda PGM-FI;
 Isuzu I-TEC; Lucas-Bosch; Mazda RE-EGI; Mitsubishi ECI and MPFI; Nissan
 TBI; Subaru SPFI;  this book has the EFI system wiring diagrams of many
 import cars.)


Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection
 Troubleshooting Guide: Domestic Vehicles, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona,
 1991, ISBN 1-55561-032-3.  (chapter contents include AMC/Jeep; AMC;
 AMC/RENIX; AMC/RENIX II; Bosch; Chrysler; Eagle; Ford; GM; this book has
 the EFI system wiring diagrams of many domestic cars.)


Norbye, Jan P., _Automotive Fuel Injection Systems, A Technical Guide_,
 Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1981, ISBN 0-87938-139-6.
 (primarily a history and description of fuel injection systems, includes
 chapters on Bosch Mechanical Systems for Mercedes-Benz Cars, Kugelfischer
 Fuel Injection, Rochester Fuel Injection, The Bendix Electrojector, Cadillac
 and the Bendix Analog and Digital Fuel-Injection Systems, Bosch L- and K-
 Jetronic, Motronic, Mono-Jetronic, Lucas Digital Fuel Injection, Chrysler's
 Single-Point Injection; Ford's Electronic Engine Control System, Zenith
 Fuel-Management Systems, Fiat/Marelli Experimental System, Bosch / Pierburg
 Electronic Carburetor, Aftermarket Fuel Injection)


Ribbens, William B., Mansour, Norman P., et al, _Understanding Automotive
Electronics_, third edition, Howard W. Sams & Company, Indianapolis, 
 Indiana,
 1988, ISBN 0-672-27064-6.  (Contents includes Automotive Fundamentals, The
 Systems Approach to Control and Instrumentation, Electronics Fundamentals,
 Microcomputer Instrumentation and Control, Sensors and Actuators, The Basics
 of Electronic Engine Control, Digital Engine Control System, Vehicle Motion
 Control, Automotive Instrumentation, Diagnostics, Future Automotive
 Electronics Systems)


Watson, Ben, _How to Tune and Modify Ford Fuel Injection_, Motorbooks
International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1992, ISBN 0-87938-621-5.  ("For
Fuel-Injected Ford Cars and Trucks with EEC III and EEC IV Engine 
Maintenance
Systems,"  chapters include History of Fuel Injection, Brief Overview of
Electronics, Tools, Tuning the Fuel-injected Engine, Automotive Emissions,
EEC III, EEC IV Components and Operation, EEC IV Onboard Diagnostics,
Troubleshooting by Symptom, Performance Modifications, Legalities of Engine
Modification;  the performance chapter is weak, only 10 pages).


Watson, Ben, _How to Repair and Modify Chevrolet Fuel Injection, Motorbooks
International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1991, ISBN 0-87938-502-2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Papers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Talk to SAE and get their most recent flier.  
        
  1-800-TEAM-SAE
  (412)776-4970
  (412)776-0790 FAX


750346 -- HEI-A New Ignition System Through New Technology
It covers the charge time question as well at their solution.  If you've not 
yet read the paper, it describes some really clever innovations: 
adjustable dwell depending on how near saturation, a 5.5 amp limit in 
the driver so you could have a low resistance for fast saturation times at 
high speeds, but that wouldn't fry at low speeds.

790742 -- 
Readable paper on the Ford CFI 5.0L 1980 cars. It covers most of
the 'twiddle factors' required to get the vehicle running properly.

800164 -- 
Covers GM TBI system.  Easy reading.

810449 -- Mathematical Model of a Throttle Body Fuel Injection System
Discusses effect of battery voltage on injectors and fuel pump pressure

810494 -- 

810495 -- 

880561 -- Frequency Domain Characterization of Mass Flow Sensors, 
             by W. C. Follmer, 1988.

900616 -- Mean Value Modelling of Spark Ignition Engines, by Hendricks
             and Sorenson, 1990.

910258 -- 
Discusses modeling intake manifold and fuel film dynamics.

920289
Modeling, filtering, and closed loop control?

930856 --
Operating characteristics of Zirconia sensors.

940373 "Adaptive Air-Fuel Ratio Control of a Spark-Ignition Engine"

940379 --
Describes a new pressure sensor that they use for misfire detection,
knock control, ignition control, etc. I have a feeling that you may
be seeing these in pass. cars in the not too distant future. Still
some signal processing circuitry required but the price has to be
better than a PCB or Kistler unit. 

FISITA -- Adaptive Transient Air-Fuel Ratio Control to Minimize Gasoline
             Engine Emissions, by Beaumont, Noble, and Scarisbrick, 1992.

       --
Describes an experiment performed by the EPA wherein they discover that
O2 sensors in fact do not sense O2 until they reach 800 degrees C.
Until that point they measure H and CO.



910258, 930856, and  920289 are also good. The first two are
by Elbert Hendricks and others, which are what I call essential reading.
The third paper covers operating characteristics of Zirconia sensors.

SAE 880561 - Frequency Domain Characterization of Mass Flow Sensors, 
             by W. C. Follmer, 1988.

FISITA -     Adaptive Transient Air-Fuel Ratio Control to Minimize Gasoline
             Engine Emissions, by Beaumont, Noble, and Scarisbrick, 1992.

SAE 900616 - Mean Value Modelling of Spark Ignition Engines, by Hendricks
             and Sorenson, 1990.

 
SAE 900616 - Mean Value Modelling of Spark Ignition Engines, by Hendricks
             and Sorenson, 1990.

SAE 930856? describes a method for keeping statistics on the
difference between measured and modelled output values and using these
statistics to modify Q(k).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Parts
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
HIP9010 Harris Semiconductor
An integrated knock sensor signal processor. This thing (HIP9010) is
controlled by a microprocessor bus port, and does programmable gain,
filtering, windowing and integration.  It produces an analog output
voltage for knock amplitude. 

MC3484-S4
Fuel injector driver.  They cost about $4.50 each from Hamilton-Avnet,
but you have to buy at least 40 or 50 at a time.

LM1964 
An amplifier designed especially for amplifying O2 sensor signals. 
It's in National's special purpose devices book (Linear 3).

LM1949 Injector Drive Controller
	
SAMTEC makes QFP to PGC Adapter boards for a variety of QFP Packages.
Chip Specific Adapters "SPEC" for a variety of Motorola and Intel Chips,
SAMTEC phn 800 726-8329.

CSP3000 -- Signal processor for automotive applications
The Car Signal Processor (CSP3000) is a signal processor designed for use
in automotive applications. 24 analog inputs and 8 PWM outputs represent
the interfaces with the analog world. The digital, 12 bits wide I/O port
and two serial bus interfaces permit the exchange of digital data within
the application or between processors.
FEATURES OF THE CSP:
- 12 Bit RISC processor (FP)
- 256 words of internal RAM (12 bit)
- 2048 works of internal ROM (20 bit)
- internal clock generator
- 12 Bidirectional IO lines
- 2 serial ports
- up to 24 analog inputs
- 8 PWM outputs
- up to 24 digital inputs
- all digital inputs with hysteresis
- 2 independant RESET pins for FP and PWM system
- PLCC 68 package
- EMU version available in 132 pin LLCC package

MC68332 -- CPU32 modular controller
The MC68332 is one of a Motrola's family of modular architecture
controller chips. The '332 contains the following modules:
  * CPU32, a 32bit M68000 style processor with all 68020 functionality
    except the bitfield operations.
  * TPU, a 16 bit RISC time processing unit that has 16 I/O pins
    and can independently perform all sorts of time functions such as
    PWM, period measurement, position synchronized pulse generation, 
    missing pulse detection, etc (great for engine management).
  * QSM, a serial module that contains one standard asynchronous serial 
    port and one synchronous port.  
  * SIM, a system integration module that does chip selects, etc.
  * 2K of onboard static ram. 


67F687
     The 67F687 is a high performance MSICs ( Mixed Signal Integrated Circuit )
designed to work with a microprocessor in an engine management system. Using two
sensor inputs (crank and cam), the 67F687 tracks engine position through one or 
two complete revolutions with a resolution of 0.25 degrees. Designed to be
flexible, the 67F687 will accept a variety of sensor types and pulse patterns.
It generates ignition and injection output pulses based on position and time
parameters supplied by the host microprocessor, relieving it of many of the real
time interrupt routines associated with these tasks. These outputs can directly
drive power devices to actuate automotive ignition coils and fuel injectors. A
sense input from each device allows individual diagnostics, short circuit
protection and ignition coil current limiting. A timer, which measures coil 
charge time at the ignition sense inputs, enhances closed loop dwell control.
Communication with a host microprocessor is through a parallel data and address
bus. A general purpose parallel I/O port offers level sensitive input and output
capability, in addition to edge detect inputs and PWM outputs.
Silicon Systems
Automotive Products
14351 Myford Road
Tustin, CA 92680  USA
Attn: Tony Anderson


Electro Corp.
1845 - 57th Street
Sarasota, FL
34243
voice: 813-355-8411
fax:   813-355-3120
A complete line of sensors.

MC3334 Ignition controller chip.
It's an 8-pin DIP that uses a sensing capacitor to determine if the
coil was completely charged for the last spark.  It adjusts the dwell
for the next spark accordingly.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Software
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
PADS -- Circuit layout software.
Has all the symbols, 68000, 8031, 80x86, TTL, CMOS, etc. It seems easy
to add to this as well. Outputs Gerber, Postscript, etc.  Got the copy
I have off a CDROM. Walnut Creek Simtel 10/93 collection.  Anyway, try
ftp.uu.net, wuarchive.wustl.edu, ftp.funet.fi etc. The directory at
ftp.uu.net should be /system/msdos/simtel/cad. The files are padslib.zip,
padslog.zip, padspcb.zip. Dunno what the versions are.

RTEMS -- Real time OS
You can ftp it from lancelot.gcs.redstone.army.mil in /pub/rtems. Look
for version 3.1.03.

GCC -- DOS hosted cross compiler for 68000 series CPUs
There are now binaries (and the changed source files for anyone interested)
available via anon. ftp. The binaries are gcc 2.6.0 for djgpp (msdos) host
and 68000 family embedded target. The ftp address is:
ftp.lysator.liu.se in directory /pub/msdos/gnu/gcc-dos-m68k




RECENT REFERENCES:
US Patent 5168853
SAE 940546, 940547
ASME ICE-Vol. 22, p73-83, October 1994


Other work into self tuning optimization and general automotive
adaptive control systems includes research at

UMIST (assoc with Lucas) (P Wellstead, P Scotson, etc)
Ohio State University (G Rizzoni, W Ribbens, F Connolly, etc)
Ford / Ricardo (A Beaumont, A Noble, A Scarisbrick)
UC Berkeley, MIT, Princeton  (J K Hedrick, D Cho, J Moskwa, C Nesbit, etc)

Now that you mention it I remember reading one of your papers (SAE 892142).
The system is a basic hill climbing technique that is unfortunately very
susceptible to noise and multiple extrema.  The work I'm implementing is
different in that it forms a 2 or 3 dimensional quadratic model and 
statistically fits available data to estimate the position of the peak.
The system can then 'jump' straight to the estimated optimum and re-tune 
from there.  The system is very immune to noise and tunes in within about 3
or 4 iterations.  New data is incorporated recursively and is inherently 
filtered in the algorithm.  
Dr. Gordon Blairs book "Two Stroke Engine Design" goes into this in 
great detail. He even supplies some programs written in Basic to 
calculate lengths. Its published by SAE & in the publications catalog.

An OEM solution is to model the delays in the engine dynamics to determine
which cylinder is producing the puff of exhaust which is currently passing
the EGO sensor.  The injectors can then be trimmed individually.
Ref "Individual Cylinder AFR Control with a Single EGO Sensor", Grizzle J,
Cook J and Dobbins K, American Control Conference 1990 pp 2881-2886.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jun 23 22:42:50 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA01930; Fri, 23 Jun 1995 22:38:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eigen.ee.ualberta.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA01925; Fri, 23 Jun 1995 18:38:08 -0400 Message-Id: <199506232238.SAA01925@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by eigen.ee.ualberta.ca (1.37.109.16/15.6) id AA077127086; Fri, 23 Jun 1995 16:38:06 -0600 From: Dale Ulan Subject: Possible *JOB* for someone out there To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 23 Jun 95 16:38:06 MDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu A company in Calgary is looking for someone to do software development for natural gas engine controllers. If anyone out there is interested, they'd probably be reading this newsgroup... so I figured I'd post this here. Oh yea, location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada. If you are interested, E-mail me and I'll send you a contact name and how to get ahold of him. I've been a bit busy trying to graduate (yes, I did pass all of my courses), so I'm a bit behind on what's going on in this group... -Dale