From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 12 22:41:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA01811; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 22:36:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA01806; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:36:27 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma019725; Wed Jul 12 16:33:03 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.13.110) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma027803; Wed Jul 12 17:33:47 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id RAA11043 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 17:33:44 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199507120733.RAA11043@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Ford/Power PC microcontrollers To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 17:33:43 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 234 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, There's a short article about Automotive apps of Power PC microcontrollers (not much on EFI :-( ) at: http://power.globalnews.com/articles/1318.htm Craig. PS How do I subscribe to EFI32? It's a bit quiet here at the moment.. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 12 22:50:07 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA02335; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 22:47:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kla.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA02330; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:47:15 -0400 Received: from newkla.kla.com by kla.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14851; Wed, 12 Jul 95 11:53:35 PDT Received: from sled.rr.rapid.kla by newkla.kla.com (4.0/SMI-4.0) id AA28961; Wed, 12 Jul 95 11:49:43 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 11:49:43 PDT From: steveb@newkla.kla.com (Steven Buchholz) Message-Id: <9507121849.AA28961@newkla.kla.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Information about subscribing? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I apologize for any imposition, but I would appreciate any information that is available for subscribing to the DIY EFI list. I've got cars and motorcycles with ECUs that are begging me to understand them and make them better ;-) TIA! =========|=========|=========|=========|=========|=========|=========|========= Steven L. Buchholz KLA Instruments Corporation - RAPID Engineering s_buchho@kla.com M/S A1-3400, PO Box 49055, San Jose, CA 95161-9055 (408) 456-6244 (office/voice mail) (408) 434-4284 (fax) '92 BMW K1 (lic - K1DRBAR) BMWMOA #61651 '88 5000CSQ Avant QCUSA #317 '83 Quattro Turbo Coupe QTC Registry #????? '78 Audi Fox GTI 4+5 (ACHTZIG) =========|=========|=========|=========|=========|=========|=========|========= From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 00:37:45 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA04465; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 00:35:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA04460; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 20:35:27 -0400 Received: from cupid.Dartmouth.EDU (cupid.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.8]) by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA13837 for ; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 20:35:26 -0400 Message-id: <8740523@cupid.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 12 Jul 95 20:35:26 EDT From: Jeffrey.Giberstein@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey Giberstein) Subject: batched injection To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Page 23 of Hartman's "Fuel Injection" states that if you batch fuel injection, you might as well take your timing off the spark coil because injection event timing is irrelevant. Is this really true? Wouldn't it be of benefit to performance if I took my injection timing from the crank sensor (there's already one there) so that one-half of the injection events would happen when the intake valve was open? whaddaya think jeff From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 01:50:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA04895; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 01:49:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA04890; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 21:48:57 -0400 Message-Id: <199507130148.VAA04890@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) cc: diy_efi, efi332 subject: [admin] service interruption In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 12 Jul 95 13:24:13 EDT." <9507121724.AA21918@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 21:48:57 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- In message <9507121724.AA21918@cebaf4.cebaf.gov> , you write: | John, | | Just wondering if the EFI mailgroups still work - | I have not gotten any messages for quite some time. | | - Bruce | | bowling@cebaf.gov This computer has now finished the first outdoor measurement session planed for this summer. For the next few weeks the mailing lists should not be interrupted; however, a second (2 week ???) interruption will probably occur in August. I've thought about moving the lists to another computer, but (1) this is the only one that I have an real control over, and (2) I don't have the time :(. Now that Coulomb is a little more stable, I hope the list activity will improve. John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 02:22:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA05062; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 02:20:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA05057; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 22:20:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199507130220.WAA05057@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI cc: hotrod@dsea.com Subject: SB Chevy TPI manifold help (urgent) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 22:20:49 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- I hope to find a SB Chevy TPI manifold at a local swap meet this weekend for an EFI project. I would like to know if anyone is aware of any significant design differences over the years. Bare in mind that I don't care if its MAP or MAF nor do I care about any ECU differences. I would like to know about any changes to the throttle body, mounting hole locations (engine or accessories), runners, etc. I intend to mount this on a target master engine. I'm somewhat aware that one of the head mounting bolts is at a different angle, but that the hole can be changed to fit the older heads (true?). Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 05:16:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA05831; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 05:14:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from sirius.UVic.CA by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA05826; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 01:14:13 -0400 Received: from uglz.UVic.CA by sirius.UVic.CA (4.1/SMI-4.1-Engr.UVic.CA-L) id AA10024; Wed, 12 Jul 95 22:14:11 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Jul 95 22:14:11 PDT From: pbjorn@sirius.UVic.CA (Paul Bjorn) Message-Id: <9507130514.AA10024@sirius.UVic.CA> To: diy_efi Subject: delco engineer Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I am looking for Ed lansinger's email address. would like to discuss delco electronics. Can anyone help me ? thanks Paul Bjorn pbjorn@sirius.UVic.CA From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 09:23:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id JAA06373; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:22:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA06368; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 05:22:01 -0400 Received: from snail.Sun.COM by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id CAA14618; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 02:22:00 -0700 Received: from UK.Sun.COM (sunuk) by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04968; Thu, 13 Jul 95 02:21:57 PDT Received: from midsun.UK.Sun.COM by UK.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-4.1e-UK) id AA13909; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:21:55 +0100 Received: from discovery.uk.sun.com by midsun.UK.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-5.0-sec(uk - sec)) id AA19085; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:21:46 +0100 Received: by discovery.uk.sun.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA02184; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:21:22 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:21:22 +0100 From: Roger.Collier@UK.Sun.COM (Roger Collier) Message-Id: <9507130921.AA02184@discovery.uk.sun.com> To: diy_efi Subject: ? Exhaust gas sensor X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I've been lurking on this list since yesterday... A question: Exhaust gas sensors. Are they all the same? What is the graph of output voltage against mixture? I assume that 0.5v is a stochiometrically correct mixture, lower is leaner, higher is richer, but how much? Having "found" a sensor and put it on my exhaust, I'd like to know what the ouptut means. Roger. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 12:22:28 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA06571; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:20:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from inetgw.fsc.ibm.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA06566; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:20:36 -0400 Received: by inetgw.fsc.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA11628; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 08:20:36 -0400 Message-Id: <9507131220.AA11628@inetgw.fsc.ibm.com> Received: from wmavm7.gburg.ibm.com(9.130.139.107) by inetgw.fsc.ibm.com via smap (V1.3) id sma046936; Thu Jul 13 08:19:35 1995 Received: from OWGVM6 by WMAVM7.GBURG.IBM.COM (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5476; Thu, 13 Jul 95 08:19:31 EDT Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 08:15:19 EDT From: "Felix Klauser" To: DIY_EFI Subject: ? exhaust gas sensor Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu For some good information on oxygen sensors, look at http://ram.chem.tulane.edu:8080/f-body/trivia/o2sensor.html Felix Klauser From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 13:10:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA06678; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:09:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06673; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:09:07 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA211410946; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:09:06 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:09:06 -0400 Message-Id: <950713090903_31808997@aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: SB Chevy TPI manifold hel... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu John, I recently bought one at a swap meet also.... Dont't buy a Corvette unit from '85 to about '90. These use an external EGR tube that runs from the exhaust manifold. Looks REAL ugly! The manifold base will have two EGR locations to plug if you don't use the EGR. (But the early ones have the center two manifold bolt holes with the 'old' pattern.) If it comes from a Camaro or Firebird from that time period, it will most likely have the 305 injectors (19 lb/hr). The '85 to '88, I think, use a 9th "start injector" . This is located on the drivers side, about in the middle of the manifold, where the runners bolt to the base. I think in '89 they eliminated it, so the runners will not swap between those years. There is also an IAC passage change about then, I not sure if there is a need to mate throttle bodies...... In '90 to '92 the MAF was eliminated, and they used the 1227730 ECM with a MAP sensor. To help in year ID, the plenum has a slight change in the 'ribs' or grooves in the top of it. The '85 to '89 have ribs that run nearly the entire length of the plenum, the '90 up have shorter length grooves, more like half way. If there is something else that I may help will, just E-mail....... Thanks, Scot Sealander FIScot@AOL.COM From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 13:40:29 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA06779; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:39:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06771; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:39:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199507131339.JAA06771@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA054722743; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:39:03 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: SB Chevy TPI manifold help (urgent) To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 9:39:02 EDT In-Reply-To: <199507130220.WAA05057@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu>; from "John S Gwynne" at Jul 12, 95 10:20 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu John, I got my TPI manifold from someone on the net. I posted to alt.autos.rod-n-custom and got 3 responses of people selling the TPI manifold. I got mine for $90.00 with all of the fuel rails, old injectors, air,water temp senders, etc. Junkyards will charge around $250.00 if they have one. As far as I know, all of the TPI manifolds will fit older heads by enlogating the one mounting hole to the head. I think that 1987 is the year that you have to enlongate the hole, older manifolds from 1984 to 1987 bolt right on (mine is a 1985 and it indeed bolts right up to an old head I have sitting in the garage. Good luck in finding one. I an good friends with a salvage yard around here and I will check there this weekend. If he has one, i can get it cheap for you. - Bruce ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 13:47:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA06827; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:47:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06822; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 09:47:44 -0400 Received: from snail.Sun.COM by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id GAA07166; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 06:47:32 -0700 Received: from UK.Sun.COM (sunuk) by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16461; Thu, 13 Jul 95 06:47:29 PDT Received: from midsun.UK.Sun.COM by UK.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-4.1e-UK) id AA25514; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:47:33 +0100 Received: from discovery.uk.sun.com by midsun.UK.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-5.0-sec(uk - sec)) id AA06215; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:47:32 +0100 Received: by discovery.uk.sun.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA03088; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:47:06 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:47:06 +0100 From: Roger.Collier@UK.Sun.COM (Roger Collier) Message-Id: <9507131347.AA03088@discovery.uk.sun.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks, That's just the information I needed. It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an LM3914 as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and the <0.25 led as "Danger-Keep Out" Roger. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 14:46:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA07362; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 14:45:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA07357; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:45:18 -0400 Message-Id: <199507131445.KAA07357@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA097176715; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:45:15 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:45:15 EDT In-Reply-To: <9507131347.AA03088@discovery.uk.sun.com>; from "Roger Collier" at Jul 13, 95 2:47 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Thanks, > That's just the information I needed. > > It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an LM3914 > as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and the > <0.25 led as "Danger-Keep Out" > > Roger. > Everyone but me! Do you have a schematic for the device handy? - Bruce ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 15:57:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA07878; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 15:53:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from acenet.auburn.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA07872; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 11:53:29 -0400 Received: from aces6 (aces6.acenet.auburn.edu) by acenet.auburn.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1 aces1 1.0) id AA18211; Thu, 13 Jul 95 10:53:28 CDT From: "Gregory A. Parmer" Received: by aces6 (5.x/SMI-4.1) id AA23637; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:53:27 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:53:27 -0500 Message-Id: <9507131553.AA23637@aces6> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: SB Chevy TPI manifold help (urgent) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I recently purchased a Cross Fire Inj manifold with dual throttle bodies. I am curious about the current wisdom on that manifold/injector. The cross-ram design from '69 is still quite sought after and this is just an electronic version of the same thing, so... The info I find seems to all be related to the late model injector types. Is there anyone here who can save me some time looking up flow rates, max duty cycle, min required voltage, etc for the old throttle body injectors? Each injector measures ~1 ohm across the posts. Would my guess that this is another "peak and hold" type of injector be accurate? What I read suggests that this is a Bosch inj but I have yet to find the specs on these things. I am guessing that there's a spec sheet in one of the books on the "EFI books and publications" list, but my first trip to the library didn't turn up anything worthwhile. Any hints? thanks, -greg Greg Parmer INTERNET: gparmer@acenet.auburn.edu Former Lead Specialist, Network Support! VOICE: (334) 844-9660 Alabama Cooperative Extension Service FAX: (334) 844-3501 Auburn University, AL 36849-5646 From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 16:40:14 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA08321; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 16:37:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA08316; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:37:15 -0400 Received: by bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04944; Thu, 13 Jul 95 09:38:00 PDT Received: from bchgate.bchydro.bc.ca by bchnetgw via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma004942; Thu Jul 13 09:37:57 1995 Received: by BCHydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23599; Thu, 13 Jul 95 09:37:58 PDT Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 09:37:58 PDT Message-Id: <9507131637.AA23599@BCHydro.bc.ca> Received: from unknown by bchgate via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma023579; Thu Jul 13 09:37:30 1995 X-Sender: beggs@bchgate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: John.Beggs@BCHydro.bc.ca (John Beggs) Subject: Bosch Injectors X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu My rough idle seems to be caused by dirty injectors ('80 633 BMW). I have tried a bottle of Techron but did not seem to make a difference. Has anyone had success with "have your injectors power cleaned for only $79.00"? If this is not viable, what are my chances of success in removing the injectors and cleaning with carb cleaner, etc? Thanks From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 16:45:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA08445; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 16:44:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from naitgate.nait.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA08440; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:44:53 -0400 Received: by naitgate.nait.ab.ca (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA55425; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:41:28 -0600 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 10:41:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Grant Beattie Subject: Tach from spark wire... To: dac@pms706.pms.ford.com Cc: DIY_EFI, karting@bronze.interlog.com In-Reply-To: <9501031838.AA25962@donatello.ICD.Teradyne.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Well I'm finally able to get back to my karting data acquitision system and so far the status is: - Remote front panel (under construction) contains 2-line x 16 char LCD and 4 panel switches (as well as three jacks for switch inputs like a SPLIT switch). Quite small and uses serial (SPI) interface. - Main CPU which at this time is recording MPH @ 5/sec and SPLITs on demand (using the above steering wheel mounted switch). The unit supports multiple sessions, review data on the LCD and upload the data to a PC. Next I want to add tach and CHT so that I can throw away my present gauge. Does anyone know how I can interface my little HC11 micro to count the sparks? Many of the kart gauges appear to have a little coil placed next to or around the spark wire. HAs anyone done this? Remember this is a go-kart and I can't get it from the existing tach ('cause I'm throwing it away and it kindo sucks anyhow ... Horstman brand). I can't really get it by using a hall sensor on the engine shaft 'cause it's too messy and the if the chain falls off it will trash the electronics. So I *think* I'm limited to getting it from the spark wire, but I'm open to other suggestions too. Thanks, GB From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 17:07:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA08760; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:05:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gw2.att.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA08755; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:05:09 -0400 Received: from ihgp.ih.att.com ([135.1.218.100]) by ig1.att.att.com id AA02744; Thu, 13 Jul 95 13:03:55 EDT Received: from ihgp1.ih.att.com by ihgp.ih.att.com (4.1/EMS-1.1.1 SunOS) id AA10452; Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:02:36 CDT Received: by ihgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA29111; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:02:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:02:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9507131702.AA29111@ihgp1.ih.att.com> From: bohdan@ihgp.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar) To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Bosch Injectors Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The low-cost solution is to run premium detergent gasoline for a while -- assuming the injectors are indeed plugged. If properly done, the "$79 cleaning" will clean your injectors very well; if, on the other hand, the cleaner is too concentrated, you'll end up replacing your injectors because the insulation in the solenoids was eaten away. I recommend an injector balance and/or flow test be made first. If the injectors pass, and the rough idle persists or is reduced AFTER the tests, you may have corroded electrical connections on the injectors. This problem is something which pops up on my 1986 Chrysler Le Baron once in a while (the computer often flags this as "fault code 26: peak injector current not reached"). This is ALWAYS accompanied by rough idle, intermittent hesitation during acceleration, etc. Television tuner cleaner usually clears this up for several weeks. Cordially, Bohdan Bodnar From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 17:43:00 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA08932; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:40:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gw2.att.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA08927; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:40:56 -0400 Received: from ihgp.ih.att.com ([135.1.218.100]) by ig1.att.att.com id AA14309; Thu, 13 Jul 95 13:40:01 EDT Received: from ihgp1.ih.att.com by ihgp.ih.att.com (4.1/EMS-1.1.1 SunOS) id AA15873; Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:37:27 CDT Received: by ihgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA05064; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:37:29 -0500 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 12:37:29 -0500 Message-Id: <9507131737.AA05064@ihgp1.ih.att.com> From: bohdan@ihgp.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar) To: diy_efi, dac@pms706.pms.ford.com Cc: karting@bronze.interlog.com Subject: Re: Tach from spark wire... Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu How about wrapping several turns of small wire around the ignition coil, running this into a pulse amplifier (e.g., an N-channel JFET with drain tied to Vdd with a high value resistor), run the output into a divide-by-two (you'll get two pulses per cycle on these lawnmower-type engines), run the output into a power amplifier, run this into your tach? If you're going to "custom-design" a tach, you can get rid of the flip-flop divider and go directly into the tach. The usual analog tach is nothing more than a monostable multivibrator driving driving a crude integrator whose output is read by a voltmeter (i.e., an ammeter in series with a resistor). Bohdan Bodnar From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 17:55:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA09006; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 17:54:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA09001; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:53:57 -0400 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA09274; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:58:24 -0400 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA06821; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:53:58 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 13:53:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Valentine To: diy_efi Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor In-Reply-To: <9507131347.AA03088@discovery.uk.sun.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an LM3914 > as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and the Yep, count me in on the "me-too!" line. I seem to recall that I used a LM3915, since it was a linear graph instead of the logarithmic graph that the 3914 used. The only sad part of this setup is that you can't daisy chain the chips, since the input voltage is so low... --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 19:30:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA09893; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 19:28:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from netmail2.microsoft.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA09888; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 15:28:21 -0400 Received: by netmail2.microsoft.com (5.65/25-eef) id AA25636; Thu, 13 Jul 95 13:01:22 -0700 Message-Id: <9507132001.AA25636@netmail2.microsoft.com> Received: by netmail2 using fxenixd 1.0 Thu, 13 Jul 95 13:01:22 PDT X-Msmail-Message-Id: 3B230576 X-Msmail-Conversation-Id: 3B230576 From: Jody Shapiro To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 12:23:51 PDT Subject: Re: SB Chevy TPI manifold hel... X-Msxmtid: red-55-msg950713192638MTP[01.00.00]000000bb-8755 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: > John, I recently bought one at a swap meet also.... Dont't buy a Corvette > unit from '85 to about '90. These use an external EGR tube that runs from John, If you don't have any luck at the swap meets, you might want to give Zeller Automotive a call (they're in New Hampshire, (Rochester possibly??)). They stock a large supply of used 3rd-generation (82-92) Camaro/Firebird parts, including TPI parts... -Jody From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 20:46:54 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA10402; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 20:44:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA10395; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 16:44:10 -0400 Received: from bal [134.169.34.11] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id VAA10012 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 21:27:28 +0200 Received: from knick@localhost by bal.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id VAA08497 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 21:27:27 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199507131927.VAA08497@bal.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 13 Jul 95 21:27:26 MET DST In-Reply-To: from "Bob Valentine" at Jul 13, 95 01:53:55 pm Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > > > > It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an LM3914 > > as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and the > > Yep, count me in on the "me-too!" line. ........ Same goes for me. Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig near Wolfsburg knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 13 22:51:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA12087; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 22:44:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA12082; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:44:47 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA220485485; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:44:45 -0400 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 1995 18:44:45 -0400 Message-Id: <950713184443_114338606@aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: SB Chevy TPI manifold hel... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Geez, I bought one too, dirt cheap.... The design is ah, ah, not so good. The intake runners are very small and John Lusky warned me about distribution problems (Notice the swirl plate under the throttle body.). It is NOT the same thing as the old Camaro 2 four barrel intake! I am thinking of getting an old Chevy 283 and using the truck TBI computer to run the injectors. About the only difference between the truck TBI and the CrossFire TBI is manifold layout. The CrossFire does use two IAC's though. My '81 Malibu desperately needs more power than the well-worn 229 V-6 puts out... What are you planning on doing with the CrossFire? Later, Scot Sealander FIScot@AOL.COM From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 03:37:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA12937; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 03:33:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from latcs1.lat.oz.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA12932; Thu, 13 Jul 1995 23:33:06 -0400 From: kozuhia@latcs1.lat.oz.au Received: from ipc2.lat.oz.au by latcs1.lat.oz.au (8.6.10/1.34) id NAA15896; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:33:07 +1000 Message-Id: <199507140333.NAA28474@ipc2.lat.oz.au> Subject: Re: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:33:14 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199507131927.VAA08497@bal.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> from "Jens Knickmeyer" at Jul 13, 95 09:27:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 382 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > wrote: > > > > > > > It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an LM3914 > > > as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and the > > > > Yep, count me in on the "me-too!" line. ........ > > Same goes for me. > > Jens. Ahh.. could i jump on as well, please? -- Ivan. kozuhia@latcs2.lat.oz.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 05:49:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA13127; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 05:47:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gmi.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA13122; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:47:53 -0400 Received: from apollo (apollo.gmi.edu) by gmi.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09746; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:51:32 -0400 Received: by apollo (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA11337; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:47:04 +0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 01:47:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon D. Stuckey" X-Sender: graydon@apollo To: diy_efi Subject: Re: batched injection In-Reply-To: <8740523@cupid.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On 12 Jul 1995, Jeffrey Giberstein wrote: > Page 23 of Hartman's "Fuel Injection" states that if you batch fuel injection, > you might as well take your timing off the spark coil because injection event > timing is irrelevant. Is this really true? Wouldn't it be of benefit to > performance if I took my injection timing from the crank sensor (there's > already one there) so that one-half of the injection events would happen when > the intake valve was open? Jeff, My understanding is that it doesn't matter too much when you inject. As a matter of fact, my friends state that injecting on a closed intake valve may be better for fuel vapourization. Hope this helps. Later, Graydon D. Stuckey graydon@apollo.gmi.edu '86 Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, GDS Racing Stage 1 '83 Mazda RX7 w/13B, GDS Racing Stage 58474 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 06:14:11 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA13191; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 06:13:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gmi.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA13186; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 02:13:20 -0400 Received: from apollo (apollo.gmi.edu) by gmi.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09867; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 02:16:55 -0400 Received: by apollo (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA11362; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 02:12:27 +0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 02:12:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon D. Stuckey" X-Sender: graydon@apollo To: diy_efi Subject: Introduction Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I am a new member here, and thought I should introduce myself. I am an HVAC Noise and Vibration engineer for Cadillac, but I do EFI on the side for the fun of it. I have EFI'd a Honda 600 with 20mm restrictor (Formula SAE), a few Mazda Rotaries, and a VW 2.0. I have helped out with a Chevy V-8, a Buick V-6 and a Kawasaki V-2 industrial motor. I use Electronics from Fuel management Systems from Chicago. They are oriented to the oems, so they are not user friendly to DIYers. They are calibrated with some very nice software, but it is VERY expensive. The hardware (ECU & wiring harness) is reasonable, however. My personal car is an '83 RX7 with an '86 engine, w/ EFI. It runs 14.89 in the 1/4 mile. My family car is an Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, with the old Bosch K-jetronic mechanical fuel injection. I am hoping to convert it to EFI soon. Later, Graydon D. Stuckey graydon@apollo.gmi.edu Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, GDS Racing Stage 1 '83 Mazda RX7 w/13B, GDS Racing Stage 5789 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 11:06:57 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA13549; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 11:04:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA13544; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 07:04:15 -0400 Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA09258; Fri, 14 Jul 95 07:04:12 EDT Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 07:04:12 EDT Message-Id: <9507141104.AA09258@oasys.dt.navy.mil> From: "Robert Gallant" To: diy_efi Subject: Re: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > > It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an > > > > LM3914 > > > > as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and > > > > the > > > > > > Yep, count me in on the "me-too!" line. ........ > > > > Same goes for me. I cheated and just used a small panel style voltmeter, mounted in the dash. Later Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 12:44:27 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA13730; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:43:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from voga.rmit.EDU.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA13725; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 08:43:16 -0400 Received: from minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU by voga.rmit.EDU.AU with SMTP id AA26354 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/qva1-oz for ); Fri, 14 Jul 1995 22:43:05 +1000 Received: (from s914440@localhost) by minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU (8.6.12/8.6.9/ram2) id WAA02120 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 22:43:05 +1000 From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Message-Id: <199507141243.WAA02120@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: intro, O2 sensors To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 22:43:05 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1568 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Greetings from Australia, Brian Tiedemann is my name, I have been subscribed a while, but with almost no traffic. Now that things are lining my mailbox, I will introduce myself: I am studying Computer Systems Engineering at RMIT in Melbourne. I have been playing with EFI for a couple of years, mainly on paper, and now to be on a Rover V8 derivative (5 litre). Luckily I have convinced RMIT to accept EFI as my 3rd/4th year project, and I will be hopefully designing a complete system. If anyone has experience with the Range Rover 3.5 litre EFI manifold I would love to hear from you, also general stuff regarding Bosch L-jetronics, particularly the Rover systems would be great. Can anyone tell me what flow rate, or how many horsepower roughly a Bosch 0-280-150-105 injector is good for? This is the standard injector used on the Range Rover, but I suspect them to be too small for a decent 5 litre. Lastly, on the oxygen sensor thread, what about using a high impedance amp/buffer circuit (op amp or something) if you want to gang several 3914/5s. Personally I can't see much point in this, as I understood that the change of voltage from a normal sensor is only meaningful over a fairly small range around stoich. This suggests that they may be more use as a too rich/too lean sensor rather than a measure of actual mixture ratios over a broader range. Also the panel meter approach requires care: must be V. high impedance, as sensors are not good as current sources, don't know whether damage is possible if too low. cheers for now Brian. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 16:35:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA14779; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:26:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gmi.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA14774; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:26:43 -0400 Received: from apollo (apollo.gmi.edu) by gmi.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA21708; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:30:19 -0400 Received: by apollo (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA11651; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:25:46 +0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:25:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon D. Stuckey" X-Sender: graydon@apollo To: diy_efi Subject: Oxygen sensor reliable? Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu All, As many of already know, the O2 sensor is only accurate at stoich and becomes very inaccurate above and below stoich. HOWEVER, It has been my experience on a real live dyno, with real live engines running, that max torque came at (for example, the VW 2.0) .8volts. When I reduce the mixture to .7 volts, the torque dropped a little, and when I increased the mix to .9 volts, the torque dropped. This would seem to indicate that the O2 sensor really is useful at richer mixtures than stoich. I found the same thing with every engine that I had on a Dyno. The engines that I have tuned by the seat-of-the-pants on the road, I thought I detected the same thing, but that is much more subjective. Just my .02 worth. I will usually trust the O2 sensor. Later, Graydon D. Stuckey graydon@apollo.gmi.edu '86 Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, GDS Racing Stage 1 '83 Mazda RX7 w/13B, GDS Racing Stage 58474 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 16:36:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA14798; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:35:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ormail.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA14793; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:35:25 -0400 Received: from relay.hf.intel.com by ormail.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0sWn5e-000UesC; Fri, 14 Jul 95 08:55 PDT Received: from ccm.hf.intel.com by relay.hf.intel.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0sWn5e-000qE1C; Fri, 14 Jul 95 08:55 PDT Received: by ccm.hf.intel.com (ccmgate 3.0) Fri, 14 Jul 95 08:55:46 PST Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 08:55:46 PST From: Herb Holmes Message-ID: <950714085546_15@ccm.hf.intel.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re[2]: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Text item: Please ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor Author: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu at SMTPGATE Date: 7/14/95 4:39 AM > > > > It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an > > > > LM3914 > > > > as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and > > > > the > > > > > > Yep, count me in on the "me-too!" line. ........ I'd like to have a copy too. Thanks, herb holmes hholmes@ccm.ch.intel.com Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: "Robert Gallant" Message-Id: <9507141104.AA09258@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 95 07:04:12 EDT Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA09258; Fri, 14 Jul 95 07:04:12 EDT Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816. SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA13544; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 07:0 4:15 -0400 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA13549; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 11:04:17 GMT Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by ormail.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0sWj1h-000UdVa; Fri, 14 Jul 95 04:35 PDT Received: from ormail.intel.com by relay.hf.intel.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0sWj1j-000qDMa; Fri, 14 Jul 95 04:35 PDT From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 16:57:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA14856; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 16:49:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix3.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA14851; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 12:49:30 -0400 Received: from by ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id JAA27908; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:48:11 -0700 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 09:48:11 -0700 Message-Id: <199507141648.JAA27908@ix3.ix.netcom.com> From: sevand@ix.netcom.com (Sevan Davitian ) Subject: Re: Introduction To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > >Hi, > > I am a new member here, and thought I should introduce myself. I >am an HVAC Noise and Vibration engineer for Cadillac, but I do EFI on the >side for the fun of it. I have EFI'd a Honda 600 with 20mm restrictor >(Formula SAE), a few Mazda Rotaries, and a VW 2.0. I have helped out >with a Chevy V-8, a Buick V-6 and a Kawasaki V-2 industrial motor. I use >Electronics from Fuel management Systems from Chicago. They are oriented >to the oems, so they are not user friendly to DIYers. They are >calibrated with some very nice software, but it is VERY expensive. The >hardware (ECU & wiring harness) is reasonable, however. My personal car >is an '83 RX7 with an '86 engine, w/ EFI. It runs 14.89 in the 1/4 >mile. My family car is an Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, with the old Bosch >K-jetronic mechanical fuel injection. I am hoping to convert it to EFI soon. > >Later, >Graydon D. Stuckey >graydon@apollo.gmi.edu >Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, GDS Racing Stage 1 >'83 Mazda RX7 w/13B, GDS Racing Stage 5789 > > What sort of EFI would you use ? From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 18:17:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA15214; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 18:11:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from netmail1.austin.ibm.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA15207; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:11:42 -0400 Received: from foules.austin.ibm.com (foules.austin.ibm.com [129.35.145.177]) by netmail1.austin.ibm.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA14298 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:11:26 -0500 Received: by foules.austin.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03-client-2.6) for at austin.ibm.com; id AA14999; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:04:15 -0500 From: dcole@austin.ibm.com (Dixon Cole) Message-Id: <9507141804.AA14999@foules.austin.ibm.com> Subject: Which 3-wire to use? To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 13:04:14 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 219 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dixon Cole - dcole@austin.ibm.com IBM RISC/System 6000 Division, Austin, TX (512) 838-8971, T.L. 678-8971 Level 3 Support From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 18:49:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA15438; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 18:48:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gmi.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA15433; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:48:23 -0400 Received: from apollo (apollo.gmi.edu) by gmi.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA29489; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:51:58 -0400 Received: by apollo (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA11793; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:47:28 +0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:47:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon D. Stuckey" X-Sender: graydon@apollo To: Sevan Davitian Cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: Introduction In-Reply-To: <199507141648.JAA27908@ix3.ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 14 Jul 1995, Sevan Davitian wrote: > What sort of EFI would you use ? I assume you are referring to the Audi Quattro project that I mentioned. I will use an FMS ECU and wiring harness, which will be a batch-fire simultaneous system. I have injectors from Bosch, and I will probably have to fab my own fuel rail. The stock Bosch K-jet's fuel pump is more than adequate for an EFI system, as is the fuel filter. I will use a pressure regulator to control boost like i am using now. The ignition will be controlled by the stock ECU. Later, Graydon D. Stuckey graydon@apollo.gmi.edu '86 Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, GDS Racing Stage 1 '83 Mazda RX7 w/13B, GDS Racing Stage 58474 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 20:04:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA16148; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 19:59:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from netmail.austin.ibm.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA16143; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 15:59:26 -0400 Received: from foules.austin.ibm.com (foules.austin.ibm.com [129.35.145.177]) by netmail.austin.ibm.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA232778 for ; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:59:18 -0500 Received: by foules.austin.ibm.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03-client-2.6) for at austin.ibm.com; id AA09808; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:57:39 -0500 From: dcole@austin.ibm.com (Dixon Cole) Message-Id: <9507141957.AA09808@foules.austin.ibm.com> Subject: 2nd try: 3-wire O2 sensor. To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 14:57:38 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry about the blank message... here's another try: Building a O2 meter using a 3-wire and a unity-gain op-amp ckt feeding an analog voltmeter. Heard something about using a 18MM sparkplug anti-fouler adapter used as a fitting for the O2 sensor to screw into. (cheap alternative to $8 weld-on bung that I'd have to order) Questions: What vehicles have 3-wire sensors that are cheap? (make, model, year)? Which one fits the anti-fouler or which anti fouler fits the sensor? Is it worth getting a used (junkyard) sensor or just pop for the new one? Thanks for the help! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dixon Cole - dcole@austin.ibm.com IBM RISC/System 6000 Division, Austin, TX (512) 838-8971, T.L. 678-8971 Level 3 Support From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 14 22:16:17 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA16469; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 22:10:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devnull by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA16464; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 18:10:22 -0400 Received: from trinity by devnull (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA09901; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 17:10:06 -0500 Received: by trinity (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA00988; Fri, 14 Jul 95 17:10:14 CDT From: joe@mpd.tandem.com (Joe Senner) Message-Id: <9507142210.AA00988@trinity> Subject: Re: 2nd try: 3-wire O2 sensor. To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 17:10:13 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9507141957.AA09808@foules.austin.ibm.com> from "Dixon Cole" at Jul 14, 95 02:57:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 236 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ]What vehicles have 3-wire sensors that are cheap? (make, model, year)? I picked up a 3 wire sensor at a local auto parts store for $28. it was for a Ford Mustang w/V8, Ford part number DY-606. works great. -- Joe Senner WhinerMC#3 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 15 04:41:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA17000; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 04:38:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eagle.natinst.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA16995; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 00:38:44 -0400 Received: (from klopfer@localhost) by eagle.natinst.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id XAA20335 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 14 Jul 1995 23:38:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 23:38:42 -0500 From: Mike Klopfer Message-Id: <199507150438.XAA20335@eagle.natinst.com> To: diy_efi Subject: 67f687 chips 4 sale Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu To get 67f687 chips I had to order 3 so if someone is interested I would be willing to part with two of them. They cost me $33. I don't know if they are available cheaper somewhere. Thats $33 each by the way. mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 15 13:38:49 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA17562; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 13:36:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from access1.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA17557; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 09:36:33 -0400 Received: (from wrl@localhost) by access1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA01457 ; for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 09:36:30 -0400 From: Bill Lewis Message-Id: <199507151336.JAA01457@access1.digex.net> Subject: Re: 67f687 chips 4 sale To: diy_efi Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 09:36:30 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507150438.XAA20335@eagle.natinst.com> from "Mike Klopfer" at Jul 14, 95 11:38:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 304 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > To get 67f687 chips I had to order 3 so if someone is interested I would be > willing to part with two of them. They cost me $33. I don't know if they are > available cheaper somewhere. Thats $33 each by the way. > > mike > I'll buy the other two .../Bill -- Bill Lewis - wrl@access.digex.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 15 20:30:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA18015; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 20:28:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA18010; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 16:28:43 -0400 Received: from mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu [128.111.148.100]) by beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu (MCL.UCSB.EDU-HPUX-1.0-b) with ESMTP id NAA12615 for ; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 13:28:41 -0700 Received: by mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (8.6.12) id NAA25890; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 13:28:40 -0700 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 13:28:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kent To: DIY_EFI Subject: Another green one Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Yep, just another new guy. My name is Mike Kent. I'm an ME student in Santa Barbara, CA. My current project is an '87 Mitsubishi Starion. It has a 2.6 liter turbo motor that came from the factory with a two injector TBI system. I have a spare motor from an '89 that I am in the process of building/blueprinting and am looking to fabricate a new intake manifold to take advantage of an Accel DFI injection system. I'd like a Motec but they seem to be kinda cost prohibitive. I'd like to find any other turbo motor folks attempting to build/tune an EFI system and learn how they are going about things (what ecu, map/maf, etc...). I have never been too deep into the electronic H/W scene so I may be a bit slow on recognizing h3jhr38shje's, but I'll do my best. My background is more in the area of engine dynamics (airflow, combustion, thermal eff) especially in regards to turbo applications. With the limited circuit science I figure I'll start with an 'easy' project first then work up. 1) Horiba esk A/F monitor w/ 0-5v output for data logging 2) closed loop boost controller w/ boost a variable function of RPM 3) Fuel/Ignition control (DFI or suitable other...) 4) maybe a Dynolab type thing using the ABS accelerometer... Any and all help is more than welcome. Thanx much, MK ukentm01@mcl.ucsb.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 16 01:05:06 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA18398; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 01:03:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA18392; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 21:03:11 -0400 From: ALIPPER@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA013366385; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 20:59:45 -0400 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 20:59:45 -0400 Message-Id: <950715205944_33558074@aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Intro Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm working on developing a TBI controller based on speed-density. The unit will be based on an 8051-type microncontroller, and will hopefully take into account RPM, MAP, throttle pos., temperature and O2 inputs. I've tested a minmally programmed prototype on an '82 Pontiac 6000, using my controller in place of it's OEM ECM. It was actually quite drivable. Future plans incluse getting it to work on a Chevy 350 in a '68 Corvette and a Pontiac 428 in a '78 Trans Am. I'm interested to know if anyone has heard anything about Holley's digital EFI system. If so, please let me know. Also, anyone else working on control algorithms, let's get in touch. Al Lipper alipper@aol.com ''78 Trans Am, Special Edition '82 Pontiac 6000, 2.5L EFI From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 16 02:27:27 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA18531; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 02:26:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA18526; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:26:39 -0400 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA19333; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:31:00 -0400 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA29614; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:26:36 -0400 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:26:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Valentine To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Re[2]: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor In-Reply-To: <950714085546_15@ccm.hf.intel.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > I'd like to have a copy too. Well, I replied first, so I guess I should give some detail. I can't find the original message, that come from the Hotrod list. (This was back when JDG was running it) Fairly simple - you need a meter that will show 0-1 volt. Go down to Radio Shack, get their "Semiconductor Reference Guide" (mine's the 1985 edition), or look in National Semi' "Linear Devices" book. Almost everywhere you see a LM3915/14, you see a 0 to 1 volt meter circuit. 10 of the 18 pins are used for the led's 1 is used for bar/dot mode 2 for juice (5 vdc) 1 is for the signal input (no buffering required) 4 are used to determine full scale voltage (Rlo, Rhi, Rout, Radust R=refernce) You need only one resistor to make it do 0-1 volt (actually, 1.2v is the minimum full scale reading). Mine was cobbled together in 15 minutes with wire-wrap, using NO resistor. ;^> If someone out there can scan in a picture, I'll be happy to fax them the diagram for this... --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology" From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 16 02:33:17 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA18554; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 02:32:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA18549; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:32:57 -0400 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA19456; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:37:22 -0400 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA29685; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:32:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:32:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Valentine To: diy_efi Subject: Re: 2nd try: 3-wire O2 sensor. In-Reply-To: <9507142210.AA00988@trinity> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > I picked up a 3 wire sensor at a local auto parts store for $28. it > was for a Ford Mustang w/V8, Ford part number DY-606. works great. Hmmm... how much juice do you have to feed it? Do you have a pinout for the connector? --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology" From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 16 03:50:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA18718; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 03:48:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devnull by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA18713; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:48:54 -0400 Received: from trinity by devnull (8.6.8/8.6.6) id WAA13043; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:48:41 -0500 Received: by trinity (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA10033; Sat, 15 Jul 95 22:48:48 CDT From: joe@mpd.tandem.com (Joe Senner) Message-Id: <9507160348.AA10033@trinity> Subject: Re: 2nd try: 3-wire O2 sensor. To: diy_efi Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 22:48:47 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Bob Valentine" at Jul 15, 95 10:32:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 740 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ]> I picked up a 3 wire sensor at a local auto parts store for $28. it ]> was for a Ford Mustang w/V8, Ford part number DY-606. works great. ] ] Hmmm... how much juice do you have to feed it? Do you have a pinout ]for the connector? dunno what it draws, I just wired it into the accessory circuit. the heat's on when the key's on :-) I wired this one into the motronic unit of a BMW motorcycle that didn't have one to start with, so the first thing I did was cut the connector off and pitch it :-) not a problem for this sensor though, it has two white wires and a black. the two the same color are the heater. the one left over is the signal. might be two black and a white, but you get the idea :-) -- Joe Senner WhinerMC#3 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 16 04:06:20 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA18755; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 04:05:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA18750; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:05:31 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0sXKxJ-000CuPC; Sat, 15 Jul 95 23:05 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: 2nd try: 3-wire O2 sensor. To: diy_efi Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:05:25 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Bob Valentine" at Jul 15, 95 10:32:57 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 833 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Bob Valentine writes: > > > > I picked up a 3 wire sensor at a local auto parts store for $28. it > > was for a Ford Mustang w/V8, Ford part number DY-606. works great. > > Hmmm... how much juice do you have to feed it? Do you have a pinout > for the connector? Two wires should be the same color, the 3rd should be a different color. Hook one of the two same-color wires to ground, the other to switched +12V. Connect the odd colored wire to the + DC input of your voltmeter. Connect the - DC input of your voltmeter to a good ground on the engine. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 16 05:00:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA18941; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 04:59:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gmi.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA18936; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:59:43 -0400 Received: from apollo (apollo.gmi.edu) by gmi.edu (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19431; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 01:03:22 -0400 Received: by apollo (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA12691; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:58:51 +0500 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 1995 00:58:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Graydon D. Stuckey" X-Sender: graydon@apollo To: Bob Valentine Cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: 2nd try: 3-wire O2 sensor. In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 15 Jul 1995, Bob Valentine wrote: > > I picked up a 3 wire sensor at a local auto parts store for $28. it > > was for a Ford Mustang w/V8, Ford part number DY-606. works great. > > Hmmm... how much juice do you have to feed it? Do you have a pinout > for the connector? Bob, My understanding is that the heater is self regulating. It draws very little current when the exhaust gases are present to keep it warm. It does draw current when warming up. I find that my heated O2 sensor is heated up and operational by the time I get to the end of my driveway. I have it wired to ignition, so it runs all the time the engine is on. Later, Graydon D. Stuckey graydon@apollo.gmi.edu '86 Audi 5000 CS Turbo Quattro, GDS Racing Stage 1 '83 Mazda RX7 w/13B, GDS Racing Stage 58474 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 16 05:30:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA19031; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 05:28:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA19026; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 01:28:28 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:27:34 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.2; from fridman@localhost) id ; Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:27:37 -0600 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 1995 23:27:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199507160527.XAA04807@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Re[2]: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor Cc: ravalent@liii.com Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > If someone out there can scan in a picture, I'll be happy to fax them > the diagram for this... > > --> Bob Valentine <-- > --> ravalent@liii.com <-- > "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology" > If you send me the info, I'll add it to our www pages. For those new to this list, the diy_efi www pages are in: http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~fridman/diy_efi I'm off on a 3 week bike trip on Tue. So if I don't get it on Mon. it'll have to wait until I come back. RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle (FOR SALE) fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 01:53:31 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA20281; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 01:51:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gopher.ee.itb.ac.id by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA20276; Sun, 16 Jul 1995 21:50:45 -0400 Received: from engine.me.itb.ac.id (engine.me.itb.ac.id [167.205.64.4]) by gopher.ee.itb.ac.id (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA11431 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:49:29 +0700 Received: from ENGINE/MAILQUEUE by engine.me.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 17 Jul 95 8:56:59 +0700 Received: from MAILQUEUE by ENGINE (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 17 Jul 95 8:56:37 +0700 From: "ARIEF HARIYANTO" Organization: Lab. Motor Bakar & Sist. Propulsi To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:56:29 GMT+0700 Subject: Re: Re[2]: The ME TOO list.. exhaust gas sensor Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Message-ID: <2753090717@engine.me.itb.ac.id> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unsub diy_efi - Arief Hariyanto - _ \\_|_|_|_|_|* \ // | | | | |_ / From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 06:55:52 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA20673; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 06:49:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pk-siec.oeto.pk.edu.pl by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA20667; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 02:49:52 -0400 From: zjuda@oeto.pk.edu.pl Received: from zjuda.pk-siec ([149.156.140.1]) by pk-siec.oeto.pk.edu.pl (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA17749; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 08:49:45 +0200 Message-Id: <9507170649.AA17749@pk-siec.oeto.pk.edu.pl> Date: Mon Jul 17 08:50:06 1995 To: diy_efi Subject: unsub Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unsub diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 13:11:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA21076; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:09:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA21071; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:08:42 -0400 Received: from diana [134.169.34.15] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id PAA10510 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:05:50 +0200 Received: from knick@localhost by diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id PAA26567 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:05:48 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199507171305.PAA26567@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Re: batched injection To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 15:05:47 MET DST In-Reply-To: from "Graydon D. Stuckey" at Jul 14, 95 01:47:03 am Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > > On 12 Jul 1995, Jeffrey Giberstein wrote: > > > Page 23 of Hartman's "Fuel Injection" states that if you batch fuel injection, > > you might as well take your timing off the spark coil because injection event > > timing is irrelevant. Is this really true? Wouldn't it be of benefit to > > performance if I took my injection timing from the crank sensor (there's > > already one there) so that one-half of the injection events would happen when > > the intake valve was open? > Jeff, > > My understanding is that it doesn't matter too much when you > inject. As a matter of fact, my friends state that injecting on a closed > intake valve may be better for fuel vapourization. > Even Bosch says that you should not inject into an open inlet valve (see the "Red Bosch Book"). Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig near Wolfsburg knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 13:41:53 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA21154; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:40:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from access1.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA21149; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:40:34 -0400 Received: (from wrl@localhost) by access1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA03542 ; for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:40:32 -0400 From: Bill Lewis Message-Id: <199507171340.JAA03542@access1.digex.net> Subject: Re: batched injection To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 09:40:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507171305.PAA26567@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> from "Jens Knickmeyer" at Jul 17, 95 03:05:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 369 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I've always assumed that since Bosch CIS seems to work so well, that the timing and duration of the injection didn't much matter. On the other hand, timed mechanical systems like the Kugelfischer used on the BMW tii, and the Bosch system used on the early 911, seem to be very concerned about the timing of the squirt. .../Bill -- Bill Lewis - wrl@access.digex.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 15:38:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA21892; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:37:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.hud.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA21887; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:37:11 -0400 Received: from ariel.hud.ac.uk by mail.hud.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <00791-0@mail.hud.ac.uk>; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:58:20 +0100 Received: by ariel.hud.ac.uk with Microsoft Mail id <300A7AF1@ariel.hud.ac.uk>; Mon, 17 Jul 95 16:00:01 bst From: Paul Shackleton To: diy-EFI Subject: getting started Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 15:59:00 bst Message-ID: <300A7AF1@ariel.hud.ac.uk> Encoding: 22 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi I am new to the list and to the subject. I would like some advice and pointers on how to get started. I would like to convert the vauxhall 16v engine in my westfield kit car from its current pair of twin choke carbs and home made clockwork ignition to a fairly simple mapped injection/ignition system, without breaking the bank. I am fairly clued up on the requirements of such a system but, not having any background in electronic systems, I really need pointing in the right direction as to what equipment I would need and how to tackle the gathering of sensory information and the control of the injection and sparks. Ideally I would like to be able to set up the map on a pc and download this to a 'black box', or even to just have trim screws on the black box with an ability to 'sense' the load sites. Can anyone help, perhaps by suggesting (easy to understand) reading material and sources of components. Or are my aims wildly optimistic and extravagantly expensive? Paul Shackleton P.M.Shackleton@hud.ac.uk University of Huddersfield England From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 15:38:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA21885; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 15:36:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA21880; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:36:21 -0400 Received: from cupid.Dartmouth.EDU (cupid.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.8]) by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04107 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:36:19 -0400 Message-id: <8789959@cupid.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 17 Jul 95 11:36:19 EDT From: Jeffrey.Giberstein@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey Giberstein) Subject: Sensor Info To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anybody have any hard data on the electrical characteristic of the 52mm Hitachi MAF sensor? I've got one on the way but I want to simulate voltages on a function generator so I can get the bugs out of my A/D conversion while I'm waiting for it. I'd also appreciate info on the dual pulse generator setup on the '87 Honda CBR 600. I've got the waveform on paper but would like to know where TDC happens without busting into the crankcase. Getting info out of Honda is like trying to crack U-boat code! Thanks, Jeff Giberstein -- jefe@dartmouth.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 16:16:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA22101; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:13:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from il50hpm1.micro.honeywell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA22096; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 12:13:54 -0400 Received: from po2.il50.micro.honeywell.com by il50hpm1.micro.honeywell.com with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA14664; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 11:15:09 -0500 Received: by mail_gw.micro.honeywell.com with Microsoft Mail id <300A9A9D@mail_gw.micro.honeywell.com>; Mon, 17 Jul 95 11:15:09 CST From: "Meier, Roger" To: "'Fridman, R (SMTP)-EFI'" Subject: Circuit fot O2 sensor Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 10:57:00 CST Message-Id: <300A9A9D@mail_gw.micro.honeywell.com> Encoding: 8 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Bob Valentine, If you cannot get the circuit to R. Fridman in time, send it via FAX to: Roger Meier 214-470-4278, and I will scan it and post it on the list. Robert can put on the DIY-EFI home page when he gets back from his trip. What format do you want it in? BMP, JPEG? It will be uuencoded of course. Regards, Roger (rmeier@p01.tx95.micro.honeywell.com) From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 17 20:55:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA23012; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 20:52:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA23007; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 16:52:45 -0400 Received: by bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA13198; Mon, 17 Jul 95 13:53:31 PDT Received: from bchgate.bchydro.bc.ca by bchnetgw via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma013196; Mon Jul 17 13:53:24 1995 Received: by BCHydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16536; Mon, 17 Jul 95 13:53:29 PDT Date: Mon, 17 Jul 95 13:53:29 PDT Message-Id: <9507172053.AA16536@BCHydro.bc.ca> Received: from unknown by bchgate via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma016516; Mon Jul 17 13:53:09 1995 X-Sender: beggs@bchgate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: John.Beggs@BCHydro.bc.ca (John Beggs) Subject: Fuel Injectors X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have any info on what is involved with having injectors backflushed? The injectors are removed and ?. Can this be done as a DIY, what is the solvent? I understand that Bosch injectors have a microscreen inside the injector and add to the tank cleaners or power cleaning does not clean the screens. (The screens are to trap any debris before the gas gets to the tip and thus prevents premature wearing.) Thanks. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 00:00:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA24512; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 23:59:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gw2.att.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA24507; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 19:59:06 -0400 Received: from ihgp.ih.att.com (ihgp-ebb.ih.att.com) by ig1.att.att.com id AA00546; Mon, 17 Jul 95 14:24:43 EDT Received: from ihgp1.ih.att.com by ihgp.ih.att.com (4.1/EMS-1.1.1 SunOS) id AA08821; Mon, 17 Jul 95 13:23:32 CDT Received: by ihgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.1 Sol2) id AA29207; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:23:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 13:23:42 -0500 Message-Id: <9507171823.AA29207@ihgp1.ih.att.com> From: bohdan@ihgp.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Sensor Info Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Does anybody have any hard data on the electrical characteristic of the 52mm >Hitachi MAF sensor? I've got one on the way but I want to simulate voltages on >a function generator so I can get the bugs out of my A/D conversion while I'm >waiting for it. If this is the same one that GM uses (I think it is), then get rid of the a/d converter and put in a frequency counter. There are three leads: signal ground, signal return, and 5.0 volts reference. No-flow frequency is around 140 Hz (measured on my 1995 Ciera). Typical operating frequencies are around 3 kHz. Although I don't have any flow (e.g., g/sec) vs. frequency specs, I may be able to dig something up from GM's training literature >Thanks, > >Jeff Giberstein -- jefe@dartmouth.edu You're quite welcome! Bohdan Bodnar bohdan.l.bodnar@att.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 02:33:50 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA27231; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 02:31:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA27225; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:31:14 -0400 From: Lfaustini@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA191894672; Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:31:12 -0400 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 22:31:12 -0400 Message-Id: <950717223111_117054298@aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Intro Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >>I'm interested to know if anyone has heard anything >>about Holley's digital >>EFI system. If so, please let me know Holley has a DIGITAL efi system now?? I currently am using the Holley pro-jection setup, but I bought it in 1990. It works prety good by the way, for a system that is -analog- and only uses throttle position and engine speed for inputs. Not bad, MSD engineers... Not bad at all... :) !! ----Lou From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 08:32:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA04557; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 08:25:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA04550; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 04:25:06 -0400 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id ar22351; 18 Jul 95 9:19 +0100 Received: from chipz.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa10732; 17 Jul 95 18:49 +0100 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 1995 17:48:33 GMT From: pjwales Message-Id: <14@chipz.demon.co.uk> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Re: batched injection X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS Lines: 16 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The timing of the fuel pulse is not important except for economy and probably emissions. For power, the injectors are probably open for most of the 2 revolutions between sparks so the timing is abitrary anyway. For economy and low throttle settings, you need to consider the coalescing of the fuel droplets into larger droplets which take longer to burn. Hence, the less time they are sitting around wetting the cylinder walls, the less fuel you will need to inject to get enough to be stoichiometric. -- Peter Wales Chairman Superchips Ltd President Superchips Inc "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 13:33:49 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA05004; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 13:26:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA04999; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 09:26:12 -0400 Received: from diana [134.169.34.15] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id OAA06723 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:13:10 +0200 Received: from knick@localhost by diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id OAA00974 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:13:08 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199507181213.OAA00974@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Rough idle problem To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 18 Jul 95 14:13:07 MET DST Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all! I have a problem with my VW Polo-G40 using the Digifant1 ECU, an intermittant fuel injection and ignition system. When I start the cold engine it runs fine. After a few minutes when it heats up, the idle rpm is reduced. When this happens, the idle gets rough. On cold days this is rather extreme, one could think the engine would die. When warmed up there is no problem. The valve which lets in additional air when the engine is cold (sorry, do not know the English word) works mechanically with a bimetal which is heated by electric current. This current is not stabilized or controlled by the ECU. Could it be that it opens too early, is this a known bug for such parts? I checked the temp. sens. by maesuring resistance and it looked ok. What about the inj. valves, I heard on an intermittant system they need some cleaning from time to time. How can I do this and what inj. cleaners are best? Any suggestions welcome, Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig near Wolfsburg knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 16:23:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA05529; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 16:15:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA05524; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:15:05 -0400 Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id MAA19037; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:15:03 -0400 Date: 18 Jul 95 12:14:10 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Re: Batched Injection / Injector Timing Message-ID: <950718161410_100341.377_EHQ122-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Batched Injection: Apart from the fact that a saving is made by using half the required number of injector drivers what advantage does batched injection offer? During dynamic load changes if you fire pairs of injectors do the optimum fuelling requirements of the engine lag behind those that can be generated by the ECU leading to poorer emissions and possibly reduced power output? Injector Timing: On the subject of injector timing my understanding is that if you inject onto a closed inlet valve the flow will be more predictable than when injecting during the actual induction stroke as the pressure differential across the injector is static. If you take this into consideration when mapping the engine in then is it not best from both emissions and indirectly the power point of view to inject right up to the point just before the inlet valve closes? If you take this event as a permanent set end point and build your fuelling up before this event then you have the maximum time available for fuelling combined with the optimum for the emissions case. All the commercial systems i've seen seem to work in reverse and fuel from around the ignition event of the previous stroke. I think the motive for this comes from the case where if load rapidly changes during the time between ignition events then this can be accomodated by extending the injector on time whereas with the fuelling built from the inlet valve closure there may be underfuelling until the next injection event. Timing Discs: I've heard the 58X timing disc mentioned here previously does this consist of 36 teeth with 2 missing at 180 degree seperation to give 58 transitions per revolution? Martin Evans 100341.377@compuserve.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 18:26:54 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA06020; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:14:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from access1.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA06015; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:14:23 -0400 Received: (from wrl@localhost) by access1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA28234 ; for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:14:22 -0400 From: Bill Lewis Message-Id: <199507181814.OAA28234@access1.digex.net> Subject: Re: Rough idle problem To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:14:21 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507181213.OAA00974@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> from "Jens Knickmeyer" at Jul 18, 95 02:13:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 561 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have seen a similar problem on Rabbits, etc with the Lambda K-Jetronic, only in reverse. The thermal air valve gets stuck in the normal 'hot' condition, causing a very low cold idle. You can test that valve by looking through it while it is heating up. Usually it is connected via the fuel pump relay, so you can just turn on the key. You'll need to connect +12V to it some other way. Porsche 914 with D-Jetronic would sometimes take a really long time for the idle to drop down due to a similar problem. .../Bill -- Bill Lewis - wrl@access.digex.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 19:05:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA06233; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:52:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA06228; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 14:52:45 -0400 Received: from mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu [128.111.148.100]) by beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu (MCL.UCSB.EDU-HPUX-1.0-b) with ESMTP id LAA13601 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:52:42 -0700 Received: by mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (8.6.12) id LAA00340; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:52:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 11:52:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kent To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: batched injection In-Reply-To: <14@chipz.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have always understood that the fuel tends to vaporize better when fired onto the backside of a hot intake valve. I would like to agree though that one could use less fuel to achieve the same effective a/f ratio by optimising the injector timing events to minimise fuel drop-out. This is what Electromotive states about their 'true sequential' injection system. "This new injection scheme targets the injector 'cut-on' angle of the correct cylender to start flow in conjuction with the opening of the intake valve for better torque, mileage, and emissions." While this may have no effect on the absolute power of an engine I feel the "crispness" and driveability of a powerplant is just as imporant as the peak power. Mike Kent another starving student / racer. 87' mitsu starion esi-r From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 18 19:31:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA06313; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 19:21:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA06308; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 15:21:09 -0400 Received: from mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu [128.111.148.100]) by beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu (MCL.UCSB.EDU-HPUX-1.0-b) with ESMTP id MAA14837 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:20:58 -0700 Received: by mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (8.6.12) id MAA04340; Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:20:56 -0700 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 12:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kent To: diy_efi Subject: 02 sensors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Yesterday I had a chat with a tuner in the LA area who said he had done some back to back tests of a Bosch sensored Haltech A/F meter and a Horiba. He found that the Bosch 3 wire sensor worked ok on the lean side of stoch as long as the EGT stayed constant. If there was any kind of change in EGT the indicated A/F would change on the Haltech but not the Horiba. The DFI injection system was programed to keep a constant 12:1 over the test window. I would like to know what others have found out about the accuracy of these inexpensive A/F meter set-ups. The idea of getting a multi thousand dollar Horiba is *way* out of the question for a mortal like me. If the cheap meters aren't accurate why use poor information? Mike Kent starving engr student '87 Mitsu Starion ESI-R From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 04:30:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA12605; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 04:25:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA12600; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 00:25:27 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #7) id m0sYnAf-000CxuC; Wed, 19 Jul 95 23:25 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: 02 sensors To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 19 Jul 1995 23:25:12 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Michael Kent" at Jul 18, 95 12:20:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1881 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Michael Kent writes: > > Yesterday I had a chat with a tuner in the LA area who said he had done > some back to back tests of a Bosch sensored Haltech A/F meter and a > Horiba. He found that the Bosch 3 wire sensor worked ok on the lean side > of stoch as long as the EGT stayed constant. If there was any kind of > change in EGT the indicated A/F would change on the Haltech but not the > Horiba. The DFI injection system was programed to keep a constant 12:1 > over the test window. That was my experience too... I was also using a 3-wire Bosch and Horiba MEXA101L on the same vehicles. I could trust the Bosch HEGO pretty well between .95L to 1.05L or so. Outside of that range it was pretty useless. On my CNG vehicle it was also fairly consistant (altho very nonlinear) on the leaner side even outside that range. On my M85 vehicle, I could create conditions where 600mV on the HEGO at one load (and EGT) was actually significantly richer than 800mV at a different load (and EGT). > I would like to know what others have found out about the accuracy of > these inexpensive A/F meter set-ups. Those inexpense meter setups are just a $35 generic HEGO and a cute bargraph voltmeter. None of them work worth a flip if you need accuracy away from stoich. > The idea of getting a multi thousand > dollar Horiba is *way* out of the question for a mortal like me. If the > cheap meters aren't accurate why use poor information? You can always do it the old fashioned ways... timeslips, reading plugs, and/or checking EGT's. The HEGO still works great for idle and low-load tuning, however. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 07:44:28 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA23027; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 07:42:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from isy.liu.se by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA23022; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 03:42:01 -0400 Received: from macken.isy.liu.se by isy.liu.se (5.65b/isy.minimaster-V1.0b2) id AA13586; Thu, 20 Jul 95 09:41:58 +0200 Received: from duett.isy.liu.se by macken.isy.liu.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02711; Thu, 20 Jul 95 09:40:08 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 09:40:08 +0200 From: matny@isy.liu.se (Mattias Nyberg) Message-Id: <9507200740.AA02711@macken.isy.liu.se> To: DIY_EFI Subject: high altitude Cc: matny@macken.isy.liu.se Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I've heard that the engine control system compensates the the amount of fuel at high altitudes because the air density is lower. If this function is not implemented, the result will be a rich mixture. I don't understand why this compensation is needed. In a speed density system, the air mass flow is calculated: ma = da * rpm/60 * Vd * nvol where ma = air mass flow rate da = air density Vd = displaced volume nvol = volumetric efficiency The air density (da) can be calculated from the gas law: da = p/(RT) where pressure (p) and temperature (T) of the inlet air is measured so the density should be known. So the question is, why do we need to compensate for high altitudes and how is it done? (The same question arises in a system which measures the air mass flow.) Mattias Nyberg matny@isy.liu.se From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 08:18:18 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA23088; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:16:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA23083; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 04:16:32 -0400 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa14359; 20 Jul 95 8:44 +0100 Received: from chipz.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa17894; 20 Jul 95 8:44 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 1995 18:05:36 GMT From: pjwales Message-Id: <15@chipz.demon.co.uk> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: getting started X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS Lines: 13 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I would suggest that the easiest way to get started would be to purchase all of the parts you need for the stock engines fuel injection system including the Bosch engine management system. Them reprogram that. It would probably be cheap as it could come from a breakers yard and as you intend to change the programming, the system from just about any Vauxhall will do. Just size the injectors correctly. You should also be able to get the manifolding and fuelling system as well -- Peter Wales Chairman Superchips Ltd President Superchips Inc "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 10:16:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id KAA23278; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:13:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.hud.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA23273; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 06:13:09 -0400 Received: from ariel.hud.ac.uk by mail.hud.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <02949-0@mail.hud.ac.uk>; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:11:26 +0100 Received: by ariel.hud.ac.uk with Microsoft Mail id <300E2C26@ariel.hud.ac.uk>; Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:12:54 bst From: Paul Shackleton To: diy-EFI Subject: Re: getting started-Peter Wales Reply Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:12:00 bst Message-ID: <300E2C26@ariel.hud.ac.uk> Encoding: 20 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Peter wrote: >I would suggest that the easiest way to get started would be to purchase all >of >the parts you need for the stock engines fuel injection system including the >Bosch engine management system. Then reprogram that. ############################### Thank-you for your reply. My next question has to be....what equipment/software would I require to access the Bosch ECU? Thanks in advance, Paul Shackleton (P.M.Shackleton@hud.ac.uk) University of Huddersfield. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 12:52:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA23487; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:49:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA23482; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:49:43 -0400 From: atsakiri@ford.com Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA04134 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:49:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199507201249.AA04134@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:49:40 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:49:40 -0400 To: diy_efi Subject: Speed density/altitude adjustments Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 08:49:38 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >I've heard that the engine control system compensates the >the amount of fuel at high altitudes because the air density >is lower. If this function is not >implemented, the result will be a rich mixture. I don't >understand why this compensation is needed. > >In a speed density system, the air mass flow is >calculated: > > ma = da * rpm/60 * Vd * nvol > >where > ma = air mass flow rate > da = air density > Vd = displaced volume > nvol = volumetric efficiency > >The air density (da) can be calculated from the gas law: > > da = p/(RT) > >where pressure (p) and temperature (T) of the inlet air is >measured so the density should be known. > >So the question is, why do we need to compensate for high >altitudes and how is it done? >(The same question arises in a system which measures the >air mass flow.) > >Mattias Nyberg One reason is that volumetric efficiency is affected by exhaust backpressure, which is in turn largely determined by ambient pressure (for a fixed set of exhaust hardware). So, the "nvol" term in your equation, typically mapped at sea level, should be adjusted for altitude. Without the adjustment, even steady state estimation of air flow will be in error. For mass air flow systems, flow is actually measured (at least the flow into the manifold), so the steady state air flow estimate needs no adjustment for altitude. Also, for a four stroke engine, there's a "2" missing in the equation. I realize you may not have intended to get that detailed, but just in case someone else tries to run some numbers, I think it should be more like: ma = da * rpm/60 * Vd/2 * nvol where units are kg kg rev 1 min m^3 1 cycle -- = ----- * --- * ------ * ------ * ------- * nvol s m^3 min 60 s cycle 2 rev --- Anthony Tsakiris The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 13:00:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA23522; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 12:59:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA23516; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 08:59:22 -0400 Received: from bal [134.169.34.11] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id OAA12557 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:58:12 +0200 Received: from knick@localhost by bal.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id OAA25812 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:58:10 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199507201258.OAA25812@bal.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Re: high altitude To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 14:58:09 MET DST In-Reply-To: <9507200740.AA02711@macken.isy.liu.se> from "Mattias Nyberg" at Jul 20, 95 09:40:08 am Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > > > I've heard that the engine control system compensates the > the amount of fuel at high altitudes because the air density > is lower. If this function is not > implemented, the result will be a rich mixture. I don't > understand why this compensation is needed. > > In a speed density system, the air mass flow is > calculated: > > ma = da * rpm/60 * Vd * nvol > > where > ma = air mass flow rate > da = air density > Vd = displaced volume > nvol = volumetric efficiency > > The air density (da) can be calculated from the gas law: > > da = p/(RT) > > where pressure (p) and temperature (T) of the inlet air is > measured so the density should be known. > > So the question is, why do we need to compensate for high > altitudes and how is it done? > (The same question arises in a system which measures the > air mass flow.) > > Mattias Nyberg > > matny@isy.liu.se > As far as I understand, air _mass_ flow compensates high altitudes (and therefore different air mass) in the way you describe. A correction has to be made for the air flow sensors (like on the Bosch K-jetronic). These sensors measure only the flow, whereas the newer sensors (with hot wire or hot film) measure air mass. Feel free to correct, Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig near Wolfsburg knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 14:36:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA23921; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:32:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from access1.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA23916; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:32:33 -0400 Received: (from wrl@localhost) by access1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA07343 ; for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:32:26 -0400 From: Bill Lewis Message-Id: <199507201432.KAA07343@access1.digex.net> Subject: Re: high altitude To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 10:32:25 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507201258.OAA25812@bal.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> from "Jens Knickmeyer" at Jul 20, 95 02:58:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 191 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In addition to the barometric pressure being lower with increasing altitude, isn't the concentration of oxygen in the atmostphere also lower? .../Bill -- Bill Lewis - wrl@access.digex.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 15:55:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA25298; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:52:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA25293; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:52:05 -0400 From: atsakiri@ford.com Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA03579 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:51:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199507201551.AA03579@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:51:56 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:51:56 -0400 To: diy_efi Subject: O2 concenctration, mass air flow Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 11:51:54 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >In addition to the barometric pressure being lower with increasing altitude, >isn't the concentration of oxygen in the atmostphere also lower? I don't know the answer to that one, but it sparks the following comments. Good point, it's air (wet even) that's measured, not oxygen. Also, these sensors are automotive grade, with accompanying accuracy. They get bounced, jarred, and dumped on a lot. One or two percent effects (not saying the concentration falls into this range) are beyond most sensors' capabilities over the range of temperature and environment experienced. Humidity will also introduce errors. No one I know of has humidity compensation. --- Anthony Tsakiris The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 17:15:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA02127; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:12:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA02122; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 13:12:09 -0400 From: furgason@hg.uleth.ca Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.1 VAX) id 706; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:12:07 MST Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:12:07 MST To: diy_efi Message-ID: <00993A1A.1D391894.706@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: high altitude Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Just a note about O2 concentration.... Until you hit the stratosphere (8 km) the concentration of O2 in the atmosphere is "constant". Only when there is sufficient UV radiation to start breaking molecules will the relative concentrations change in significant ways. Dan Furgason From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 18:37:06 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA03011; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 18:35:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA03006; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 14:34:55 -0400 Received: from mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu [128.111.148.100]) by beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu (MCL.UCSB.EDU-HPUX-1.0-b) with ESMTP id LAA11630 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:34:48 -0700 Received: by mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (8.6.12) id LAA03297; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:34:39 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 11:34:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kent To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: O2 concenctration, mass air flow In-Reply-To: <199507201551.AA03579@internet-mail.ford.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu As far as I know, Motec systems do calculate humidity into their altitude correction formulas. Mike Kent From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 20 19:15:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA04233; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 19:12:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA04227; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:12:44 -0400 From: atsakiri@ford.com Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA16287 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:12:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199507201912.AA16287@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:12:40 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 20 Jul 1995 15:12:40 -0400 To: diy_efi Subject: Motec humidity compensation Date: Thu, 20 Jul 95 15:12:38 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >As far as I know, Motec systems do calculate humidity into >their altitude correction formulas. > >Mike Kent What's a "Motec" system? Is that an in-vehicle engine controller or a dynamometer-based device? Does it adjust spark timing too? My earlier comment about not knowing of any systems which compensates for humidity referred to production, in-vehicle powertrain controllers. --- Anthony Tsakiris The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 21 00:05:36 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA15274; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 00:02:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA15269; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 20:02:13 -0400 Received: from mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu [128.111.148.100]) by beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu (MCL.UCSB.EDU-HPUX-1.0-b) with ESMTP id RAA02158 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:02:11 -0700 Received: by mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (8.6.12) id RAA18398; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:02:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 17:02:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kent To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Motec In-Reply-To: <199507201912.AA16287@internet-mail.ford.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The MoTec engine management system is an aftermarket ECU similar to the TEC-II or Accel DFI. It seems to be the only aftermarket system to use a 32-bit processor (TEC-II = 8-bit, DFI = 16-bit) and have nice GUI software. The makers claim it allows for traction-control, gear-change sensors, fuel-used meters, individual cylinder fuel and ignition tables, true-sequential firing of injectors, nitrous enrichment and retard, distributorless ignition, multiple rev-limiters, closed-loop control, data-logging, and oh yah, telemetry. I've never played with one myself, though it seems to be the hot ticket in the LA scene. They start at $2k. Motec 5355 Industrial Dr. Huntington Beach, CA 92649 (714)897-6804 Mike Kent ...wish I had one... From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 21 01:06:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA15458; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 01:02:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA15453; Thu, 20 Jul 1995 21:02:43 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma002604; Fri Jul 21 09:56:12 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.13.110) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma005086; Fri Jul 21 11:01:12 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id LAA19452 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:01:06 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199507210101.LAA19452@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Motec To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:01:01 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Michael Kent" at Jul 20, 95 05:02:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1473 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > The MoTec engine management system is an aftermarket ECU similar to the > TEC-II or Accel DFI. It seems to be the only aftermarket system to use a > 32-bit processor (TEC-II = 8-bit, DFI = 16-bit) and have nice GUI > software. The makers claim it allows for traction-control, gear-change > sensors, fuel-used meters, individual cylinder fuel and ignition tables, > true-sequential firing of injectors, nitrous enrichment and retard, > distributorless ignition, multiple rev-limiters, closed-loop control, > data-logging, and oh yah, telemetry. I've never played with one myself, > though it seems to be the hot ticket in the LA scene. They start at $2k. Yep, all that stuff is on the brochure. The MoTeCs are used on 'GroupA' race cars here (Which is basically V8 powered family sedan race cars around the 5-600 hp range). Based on the picture of the controller on their brochure, I'd speculate that they are using one of those 32bit motorola chips and a 67F687. As a side note, they sell 'upgrades' to their systems to convert from simultaneous to full sequential, upgrade the number of data points in the fuel maps etc, that are ALREADY in the system. The features get enabled by paying your money and you get back an enable code to turn on the function.. Pretty tricky eh! While their systems are very nice, you do pay for the privilege (ie the top of the line controller is around $2500US. Still, if you've got a $50k engine it's worth it.) Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 22 17:43:59 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA03448; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 17:33:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA03434; Sat, 22 Jul 1995 13:33:18 -0400 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa26182; 22 Jul 95 11:26 +0100 Received: from chipz.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa24156; 22 Jul 95 11:27 +0100 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 15:57:57 GMT From: pjwales Message-Id: <20@chipz.demon.co.uk> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Re: getting started-Peter Wales Reply X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS Lines: 9 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In your message dated Thursday 20, July 1995 you wrote : To access the data all you need is an eprom programmer. Read the data, decide where to make the changes and make another chip. The tough bit is deciding what to change Peter Wales Chairman Superchips Ltd President Superchips Inc "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 02:42:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA15833; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:18:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA15828; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:18:02 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA02391; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:17:50 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/MERCMAIL by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 24 Jul 95 12:18:25 +1000 Received: from MERCMAIL by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 24 Jul 95 12:18:01 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:17:58 EST+10 Subject: Re: Motec X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Andrew Dennison" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <165EEDD7433@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Based on the picture of the controller on > their brochure, I'd speculate that they are using one of those 32bit > motorola chips and a 67F687. I think they use the MC68332. I went to an informal seminar held at the Motec factory (it's an Australian product) and I was most impressed by the features of the controller and the EFI and general automotive stories told. I believe that the 'basic' fuel-only controller starts at $A1500. Every controller contains the hardware for full sequential fueling and spark control and these features may be enabled with a software key as mentioned by Craig. The system firmware is stored in flash memory so it may be possible to purchase software upgrades! I hope the EFI332 project comes close to this benchmark! Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 02:50:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA15867; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:35:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA15862; Sun, 23 Jul 1995 22:35:05 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA02529; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:34:22 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/MERCMAIL by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 24 Jul 95 12:34:56 +1000 Received: from MERCMAIL by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 24 Jul 95 12:34:30 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:34:27 EST+10 Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Andrew Dennison" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <166352E31CC@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce Bowling Wrote: > > It looks like everyone in the world has built a LED bargraph with an LM3914 > > as I did. I just need now to mark the .75-.875 volt led "max power" and the > > <0.25 led as "Danger-Keep Out" > > > > Roger. > > > > Everyone but me! Do you have a schematic for the device handy? > I posted an ascii schematic to the RX7 mailing list last year (or maybe the year before?) I can't find it at the moment but I will track it down if peaple are interested. Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 06:08:29 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA16879; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 06:02:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from yarrina.connect.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA16866; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:02:03 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by yarrina.connect.com.au with UUCP id QAA07342 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:01:42 +1000 Received: from charon.adacel.com.au by server.adacel.com.au with SMTP id AA08331 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:14:13 +1000 Received: From ADACEL1/WORKQUEUE by charon.adacel.com.au via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950724151324.288; 24 Jul 95 15:13:41 +1000 Message-Id: To: diy_efi From: "David Smith" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:13:15 GMT+1000 Subject: RCPT: Re: Motec Priority: normal X-Mailer: WinPMail v1.0 (R1) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 24 Jul 95 12:17 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Motec Was read at 15:13, 24 Jul 95. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 06:08:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA16874; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 06:02:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from yarrina.connect.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA16868; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 02:02:08 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by yarrina.connect.com.au with UUCP id QAA07333 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:01:36 +1000 Received: from charon.adacel.com.au by server.adacel.com.au with SMTP id AA08325 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:13:34 +1000 Received: From ADACEL1/WORKQUEUE by charon.adacel.com.au via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950724151245.480; 24 Jul 95 15:13:02 +1000 Message-Id: To: diy_efi From: "David Smith" Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 15:12:35 GMT+1000 Subject: RCPT: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor Priority: normal X-Mailer: WinPMail v1.0 (R1) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 24 Jul 95 12:34 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor Was read at 15:12, 24 Jul 95. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 13:27:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA17553; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:20:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA17548; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 09:20:22 -0400 Received: from diana [134.169.34.15] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id OAA01463 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:24:35 +0200 Received: from knick@localhost by diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id OAA11411 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:24:33 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199507241224.OAA11411@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 14:24:32 MET DST In-Reply-To: <166352E31CC@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> from "Andrew Dennison" at Jul 24, 95 12:34:27 pm Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > > I posted an ascii schematic to the RX7 mailing list last year (or > maybe the year before?) I can't find it at the moment but I will > track it down if peaple are interested. > > Andrew As for me, I am intersested. Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig near Wolfsburg knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 14:26:11 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA17785; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:15:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA17780; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:15:39 -0400 Received: by egate1.eds.com (hello) id KAA10964; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:15:38 -0400 Received: by igate1.eds.com (hello) id KAA11837; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:15:37 -0400 Received: from ctlw3924 by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA26763; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:13:42 -0400 From: James Kelly Received: by ctlw3924 (1.37.109.11) id AA194625645; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:20:45 -0400 Message-Id: <199507241420.AA194625645@ctlw3924> Subject: digest mode To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:20:45 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507241224.OAA11411@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> from "Jens Knickmeyer" at Jul 24, 95 02:24:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 138 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Is there a digest mode on this mailing list to collect all the messages for the day and deliver them as a single message once a day ?? From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 16:13:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA19455; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:03:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from lynx.informix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA19450; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:03:19 -0400 Received: from cheetah.informix.com by lynx.informix.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA29505; Mon, 24 Jul 95 09:07:51 -0700 From: Gary Dunn Received: by cheetah id ; Mon, 24 Jul 95 09:03:13 PDT Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 09:03:13 PDT Message-Id: <9507241603.AA29771@cheetah> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Please count me in on the schematic for the gas sensor. Thanks, Gary From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 16:21:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA19846; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:14:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate2.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA19841; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:14:43 -0400 Received: by egate2.eds.com (hello) id MAA05028; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:14:26 -0400 Received: by igate2.eds.com (hello) id MAA04442; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:14:26 -0400 Received: from koppa1.delcoelect.com by kocrsv01.delcoelect.com with SMTP id AA10660 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/CORE for ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:13:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199507241613.AA10660@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> Received: from KOPPA1/P_MAIL by koppa1.delcoelect.com (Mercury 1.1); Mon, 24 Jul 95 11:16:09 EST From: "The Chou duo" Organization: Delco Electronics To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:15:52 EST Subject: RCPT: Re: Motec Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows v1.11 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 24 Jul 95 12:17 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Motec Was read at 11:15, 24 Jul 95. *********************************************************************** Tom Chou, nachou@koppa1.delcoelect.com (317)451-5758 W, (317)868-9672 H ESC Calibration Development, Powertrain Electronics Unless indicated otherwise, the opinions expressed here are personal & NOT an official statement of General Motors / Delco Electronics. *********************************************************************** From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 16:42:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA20349; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:34:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA20344; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:34:29 -0400 Received: by egate1.eds.com (hello) id MAA20133; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:15:43 -0400 Received: by igate1.eds.com (hello) id MAA20558; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:14:28 -0400 Received: from koppa1.delcoelect.com by kocrsv01.delcoelect.com with SMTP id AA10646 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/CORE for ); Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:13:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199507241613.AA10646@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> Received: from KOPPA1/P_MAIL by koppa1.delcoelect.com (Mercury 1.1); Mon, 24 Jul 95 11:15:39 EST From: "The Chou duo" Organization: Delco Electronics To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:15:17 EST Subject: RCPT: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows v1.11 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 24 Jul 95 12:34 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor Was read at 11:15, 24 Jul 95. *********************************************************************** Tom Chou, nachou@koppa1.delcoelect.com (317)451-5758 W, (317)868-9672 H ESC Calibration Development, Powertrain Electronics Unless indicated otherwise, the opinions expressed here are personal & NOT an official statement of General Motors / Delco Electronics. *********************************************************************** From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 17:06:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA20636; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:59:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA20631; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 12:59:05 -0400 Message-Id: <199507241659.MAA20631@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: diy_efi Subject: [admin] Re: digest mode In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 24 Jul 95 10:20:45 EDT." <199507241420.AA194625645@ctlw3924> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 12:59:05 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- In message <199507241420.AA194625645@ctlw3924> , you write: | Is there a digest mode on this mailing list to collect all the messages | for the day and deliver them as a single message once a day ?? Not yet. The problem is that I would rather work on efi332 than on adding the digest mode :). The "pieces" for this are in majordomo-1.92 but it's not complete. I'll have to check for a new version. BTW, if you're sending RCPT back to the list after reading your mail... STOP IT! John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 17:09:14 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA20707; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:02:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA20702; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 13:02:35 -0400 Received: from mlode.com by mlode.mlode.com; Mon, 24 Jul 95 10:20 PST Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 10:20:28 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Huish Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor To: diy_efi In-Reply-To: <199507241224.OAA11411@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Length: 316 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > wrote: > > > > I posted an ascii schematic to the RX7 mailing list last year (or > > maybe the year before?) I can't find it at the moment but I will > > track it down if peaple are interested. > > > > Andrew > > As for me, I am intersested. > > Jens. I too am interested. Bob Cuda-65 From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 18:39:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA21766; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:34:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA21760; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:34:34 -0400 Received: from mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu [128.111.148.100]) by beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu (MCL.UCSB.EDU-HPUX-1.0-b) with ESMTP id LAA19977 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:34:28 -0700 Received: by mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (8.6.12) id LAA10396; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:34:18 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kent To: diy_efi Subject: injector timing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm not really clear... did we ever solve the fuel injector timing issue? I think the last thing was a quote from Electromotive about their Tec-II. What is it, batch fire or sequential??? MK From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 18:46:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA21867; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:43:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA21862; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:43:33 -0400 Received: from mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu [128.111.148.100]) by beauty.mcl.ucsb.edu (MCL.UCSB.EDU-HPUX-1.0-b) with ESMTP id LAA20549 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:43:26 -0700 Received: by mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu (8.6.12) id LAA11420; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:43:25 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 11:43:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Kent To: diy_efi Subject: ignition Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The old school likes distributors, new cars are coming with DIS. In your humble oppinion(s) which do you think would be the best choice for a home brew EFI. If you folks have any experience with some of the many "spark boxes" what was the improvement (if any) and how could one integrate this/these enhancements into an EFI system. I've seen a number of ignition control chips that handle knock retard duties, any experiences? Is it going to be easiest to just purchase someones and run it? Thanx MK From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 20:22:50 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA28180; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:21:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA28175; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:21:22 -0400 Received: from cupid.Dartmouth.EDU (cupid.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.8]) by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA16134 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 16:21:21 -0400 Message-id: <8885169@cupid.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 24 Jul 95 16:21:21 EDT From: Jeffrey.Giberstein@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey Giberstein) Subject: pulse width correction To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In perusing some sample EFI code, I noticed that a linear function was used to adjust injector pulse width for changes in battery voltage. The adjustments appeared to range from 600 microseconds to 2000 microseconds as voltage went from 16V to 6V. Is it standard practice to use a linear function for this correction or is it dependent only on the particular injector? Does anyone know of a source of information regarding ITO times and varying voltage can be found? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 21:44:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA28750; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 21:38:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dione.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA28745; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 17:38:08 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by VCA.GI.COM (PMDF V5.0-3 #7516) id <01HT92VC4W74G3JH8U@VCA.GI.COM> for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:37:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <3014128E@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 14:38:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: FW: pulse width correction To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-id: <3014128E@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 35 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have wondered about this myself. I assume that this is done mainly to handle the low voltage when the engine is not running (12V vs. 14 V), and during starting (< 12 V). Also, if the alternator dies, the voltage will slowly drop. One could measure the change in injector flow rate at a fixed duty cycle with changes in voltage to come up with a correction curve. I would guess that the "peak/hold" type of injector drivers would be less sensitive to voltage changes since they regulate the current to the injector, regardless of supply voltage. Comments? Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: owner-diy_efi-outgoing To: diy_efi Subject: pulse width correction Date: Monday, July 24, 1995 4:21PM In perusing some sample EFI code, I noticed that a linear function was used to adjust injector pulse width for changes in battery voltage. The adjustments appeared to range from 600 microseconds to 2000 microseconds as voltage went from 16V to 6V. Is it standard practice to use a linear function for this correction or is it dependent only on the particular injector? Does anyone know of a source of information regarding ITO times and varying voltage can be found? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 24 22:10:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA28911; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:07:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from anvil.gatech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA28906; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:07:08 -0400 Received: from acmex.gatech.edu (gt0035b@acmex.gatech.edu [130.207.165.22]) by anvil.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA01281 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:07:06 -0400 From: gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu (Henry David Sommer) Received: (gt0035b@localhost) by acmex.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA19834 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:07:05 -0400 Message-Id: <199507242207.SAA19834@acmex.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: RCPT: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 18:07:05 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507241613.AA10646@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> from "The Chou duo" at Jul 24, 95 11:15:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 716 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I don't care that you have read your mail today. The Chou duo wrote > > Confirmation of reading: your message - > > Date: 24 Jul 95 12:34 > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: ? exhaust gas sensor > > Was read at 11:15, 24 Jul 95. > > *********************************************************************** > Tom Chou, nachou@koppa1.delcoelect.com (317)451-5758 W, (317)868-9672 H > ESC Calibration Development, Powertrain Electronics > Unless indicated otherwise, the opinions expressed here are personal > & NOT an official statement of General Motors / Delco Electronics. > *********************************************************************** > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 00:02:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA29423; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:59:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA29418; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 19:59:03 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma012244; Tue Jul 25 08:50:51 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma027336; Tue Jul 25 09:57:52 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id JAA06656 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:57:47 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199507242357.JAA06656@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: GM C3 qns.. To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:57:38 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 666 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu After flipping thru a book with a few cars using the GM C3 computer, it appears that the wiring diagrams are very similar, and the only difference is the 'mem-cal' pack. Also, it looks like the mem-cal is programmed with vehicle weight, engine size, gear ratios etc and the fuel calcs are done from this info rather than having load/rpm/inj time graphs etc... Am I barking up the wrong tree or does this sound right? Any one from an 'offical' source want to make an 'un-offical' comment? :-) Also, should the 'check engine' light flash fault codes at engine startup or only when you bridge the ALDL connector? (This is my main question actually) Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 01:02:23 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA29571; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 00:59:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from yarrina.connect.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA29566; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:59:35 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by yarrina.connect.com.au with UUCP id KAA26294 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:59:22 +1000 Received: from charon.adacel.com.au by server.adacel.com.au with SMTP id AA12009 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:30:12 +1000 Received: From ADACEL1/WORKQUEUE by charon.adacel.com.au via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950725102922.480; 25 Jul 95 10:29:40 +1000 Message-Id: To: diy_efi From: "David Smith" Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:29:18 GMT+1000 Subject: Re: Spurious Receipts Priority: normal X-Mailer: WinPMail v1.0 (R1) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Apologies for the wasted bandwidth from the automatically generated receipt messages. Our sys admin is investigating. David Smith. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 01:58:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA29729; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 01:50:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA29724; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 21:50:38 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #7) id m0saZ8g-000CuUC; Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:50 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: GM C3 qns.. To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:50:30 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199507242357.JAA06656@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> from "Craig Pugsley" at Jul 25, 95 09:57:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 959 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Craig Pugsley writes: > > Also, it looks like the mem-cal is programmed with vehicle weight, > engine size, gear ratios etc and the fuel calcs are done from this info > rather than having load/rpm/inj time graphs etc... Am I barking up the > wrong tree or does this sound right? Any one from an 'offical' source want > to make an 'un-offical' comment? :-) Nope, youre barking up the wrong tree. THe PROM is full of spark and fuel maps, etc as well as some 6801-ish code. > Also, should the 'check engine' light flash fault codes at engine startup > or only when you bridge the ALDL connector? (This is my main question > actually) only when you ground the diagnostic pin on the ALDL. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 02:21:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA29838; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 02:18:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from omega.uta.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA29823; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 22:18:52 -0400 Received: (from csh5742@localhost) by omega.uta.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA18122; Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:52:04 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 20:52:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Henry X-Sender: csh5742@omega To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: GM C3 qns.. In-Reply-To: <199507242357.JAA06656@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Craig Pugsley wrote: ---/--- cut > Also, should the 'check engine' light flash fault codes at engine startup > or only when you bridge the ALDL connector? (This is my main question > actually) > > Cheers, > Craig. > The check engine light should come on durring start-up only to verify the bulb is working. To retrieve the trouble codes, you must turn the vehicle off, then turn the ignition on... do not start. Once the ignition is on then bridge the diagnostic enable to ground. The unit will then cycle through the codes, if any are stored. Code 12 will flash 3x if everything is working properly followed by a pause, then the trouble code(s) will flash in sequence ... 3x each. After the trouble code(s) are displayed, if any, another code 12 will flash 3X to signify completion. Do not start the vehicle with the diag. enabled and becareful, I don't accept any responsibility... as the pro's say :) later Craig From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 09:25:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id JAA00894; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:22:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mserv1.dl.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA00888; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 05:19:46 -0400 Received: from xserv1.dl_sun_server by mserv1.dl.ac.uk with SMTP id KAA13816 (8.6.12/5.3[ref postmaster@dl.ac.uk] for dl.ac.uk from A.Berry@dl.ac.uk); Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:19:39 +0100 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:19:39 +0100 From: "A.Berry" Message-Id: <199507250919.KAA13816@mserv1.dl.ac.uk> To: DIY_EFI Subject: need info about mems Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, Does anyone have any information about the Rover/Motorola engine management systems.? Andrew. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 10:28:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id KAA00983; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 10:26:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA00978; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 06:25:34 -0400 Received: from diana [134.169.34.15] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id MAA21875 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:24:50 +0200 Received: from knick@localhost by diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id MAA25613 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:24:49 +0200 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199507251024.MAA25613@diana.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Motec? To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 12:24:47 MET DST Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi everyone, a friend of mine is very interested in the Motec system, so if anyone can give me some info, please do so. We are esp. interested in what versions are available, how much they cost and what you get for the money. Is Motec reachable via WWW? Thanks, Jens. ------------------------------------ Jens Knickmeyer Technische Universitaet Braunschweig Mikroporzessorlabor 38106 Braunschweig near Wolfsburg knick@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de ------------------------------------ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 11:56:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA01128; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:55:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA01123; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:55:06 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA174743303; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:55:04 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 07:55:04 -0400 Message-Id: <950725075503_122384497@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Voltage Comp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: FW: pulse width correction From: BZUBLIN@po2.gi.com (Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)) RE: Injector voltage compensation > I have wondered about this myself. I assume that this is done mainly > to handle the low voltage when the engine is not running (12V vs. 14 > V), and during starting (< 12 V). Also, if the alternator dies, the > voltage will slowly drop. > One could measure the change in injector flow rate at a fixed duty > cycle with changes in voltage to come up with a correction curve. I > would guess that the "peak/hold" type of injector drivers would be less > sensitive to voltage changes since they regulate the current to the > injector, regardless of supply voltage. Comments? > Bryan Zublin > bzublin@gi.com I would guess that the manufacturers would have to be ready for all contingencies..... In code I have looked at, all of the regular saturated injectors use a voltage compensation adder table, similar to the idea expressed in the original append. There is also a table that appears to compensate for injector nonlinearity at low pulse widths. In the one ECM that I have that uses peak and hold injectors, the voltage compensation is a multiplier factor. The voltage compensation is not merely added, but multiplied by the Sync and Async pulsewidths. In Bryans' idea above, how would duty cycle and pulsewidth affect the voltage compensation? It would seem that it would only affect the turn-on/turn-off times, with full-open injector flow not affected by voltage. Anyone with hands-on experience? Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 15:07:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA02198; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:02:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gatekeeper.nsc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA02193; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:02:53 -0400 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by gatekeeper.nsc.com (5.65/fma-120691) with SMTP; id AA21609 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 25 Jul 95 08:02:50 -0700 Received: from gpo.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA12256 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 25 Jul 95 08:02:49 -0700 Received: from SPF.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by gpo.nsc.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA04127; Tue, 25 Jul 95 07:52:11 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 07:52:11 -0700 Message-Id: <9507251452.AA04127@gpo.nsc.com> From: dmorrill%spf.dnet@gpo.nsc.com (DAVE MORRILL HPL DESIGN ENG 207-775-8574) To: "DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu"%GPO.dnet@gpo.nsc.com Cc: DMORRILL@gpo.nsc.com Subject: EFI code Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello, I am an electrical/computer engineer and am just getting started on my own EFI project- a turbo aircooled VW motor w/ EFI, I plan to adapt a pre 1990 GM system but have not decided for sure yet. Just in the beginning planning stages for this winter project. Jeff (below), Do you have this code available on line? I would like to take a look at any available engine managment code and get any tips/advice on the GM systems from anyone out there (is GM the easiest to modify/adapt??), or any suggestions on this project in general. Thanks, Dave Morrill National Semiconductor Design Engineer dmorrill%spf.dnet@gpo.nsc.com From: GPO::"owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" 24-JUL-1995 17:15:15.47 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: Subj: pulse width correction In perusing some sample EFI code, I noticed that a linear function was used to adjust injector pulse width for changes in battery voltage. The adjustments appeared to range from 600 microseconds to 2000 microseconds as voltage went from 16V to 6V. Is it standard practice to use a linear function for this correction or is it dependent only on the particular injector? Does anyone know of a source of information regarding ITO times and varying voltage can be found? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 15:59:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA02926; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:55:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate2.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA02921; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:55:43 -0400 Received: by egate2.eds.com (hello) id LAA26842; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:55:39 -0400 Received: by igate2.eds.com (hello) id LAA24371; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:55:39 -0400 Received: from ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA13824; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:54:58 -0400 Received: from ctlp0045.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.55.179]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA078387528; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 11:52:08 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 11:48:17 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: Re: Voltage Comp To: diy_efi X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > In Bryans' idea above, how would duty cycle and pulsewidth affect the > voltage compensation? It would seem that it would only affect the > turn-on/turn-off times, with full-open injector flow not affected by > voltage. Anyone with hands-on experience? > > Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com > > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. ------------------------------------------------------- Ed Lansinger General Motors Powertrain Powertrain Control Center Premium V Software & Calibration Group Milford Proving Ground, Milford, MI elansi01@mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com 8-341-3049 (810) 684-3049 ------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 16:16:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA03121; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:10:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dartvax.dartmouth.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA03116; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:10:11 -0400 Received: from cupid.Dartmouth.EDU (cupid.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.8]) by dartvax.dartmouth.edu (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06407 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:10:09 -0400 Message-id: <8896578@cupid.Dartmouth.EDU> Date: 25 Jul 95 12:10:10 EDT From: Jeffrey.Giberstein@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey Giberstein) Subject: Re: EFI code To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry, I only have a text version of the code. It was sent along with some samples I got of SSI's 67f687. I imagine if you hassle them enough like I did you can squeeze it out of them. happy motoring, Jeff From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 17:57:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA04203; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:53:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mamacass.sp.trw.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA04198; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 13:53:37 -0400 Received: from zombie.dpdl (zombie.sp.TRW.COM) by mamacass.sp.trw.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12084; Tue, 25 Jul 95 10:53:32 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 10:53:32 PDT From: scot@mamacass.sp.trw.com (Scot O. Stockton) Message-Id: <9507251753.AA12084@mamacass.sp.trw.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Voltage Comp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > In Bryans' idea above, how would duty cycle and pulsewidth affect the > > voltage compensation? It would seem that it would only affect the > > turn-on/turn-off times, with full-open injector flow not affected by > > voltage. Anyone with hands-on experience? > > > > Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com > > > > > > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump flow > is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply voltages. > You could start there or measure things yourself. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Ed Lansinger Can we peons get our hands on these specs somehow? -S [Yes I'm new to this list.] ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Scot Stockton TRW Space & Electronics Group scot@mamacass.sp.trw.com ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 19:17:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA04786; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:12:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate2.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA04781; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:12:14 -0400 Received: by egate2.eds.com (hello) id PAA31139; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:12:05 -0400 Received: by igate2.eds.com (hello) id PAA28566; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:12:05 -0400 Received: from ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA16651; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:11:24 -0400 Received: from ctlp0045.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.55.179]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA097779312; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:08:32 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 15:03:45 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: Re: Voltage Comp To: diy_efi X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >> EFI fuel >> pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply voltages. >> You could start there or measure things yourself. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Ed Lansinger > >Can we peons get our hands on these specs somehow? >-S [Yes I'm new to this list.] >~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* >Scot Stockton TRW >Space & Electronics Group scot@mamacass.sp.trw.com >~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* When I was a peon ;) I found it was just a matter of getting in touch with the right engineer sympathetic to your cause. Being able to state succinctly what information you are looking for helped a lot. It never hurts to have a company or school name behind you, too. In many cases it was much simpler than that - with at least one pump manufacturer this information was in their sales brochure which they happily sent out for free. ------------------------------------------------------- Ed Lansinger General Motors Powertrain Powertrain Control Center Premium V Software & Calibration Group Milford Proving Ground, Milford, MI elansi01@mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com 8-341-3049 (810) 684-3049 ------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 20:03:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA05202; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:59:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dione.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA05194; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:59:17 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by VCA.GI.COM (PMDF V5.0-3 #7516) id <01HTADP8KGMOG3K500@VCA.GI.COM> for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <30154D21@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 12:59:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Source of MC68HC711E9 To: "diy_efi (postings)" Cc: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Message-id: <30154D21@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 16 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know of a good reliable source for the Motorola MC68HC711E9 microcontroller? This is the version that has the built in EPROM (one time programmable - OTP). There is also a ceramic version with the window so that the EPROM can be erased with UV light. I need 25 pieces of the OTP version (HC711E9CFN), and am willing to pay full price. I would also like to buy 3 pieces of the ceramic version (HC711E9CFS). I have been told from one distributor that they are on allocation. I am getting quotes also from Newark, but I need to cover my bases. Also, does anyone know the email address of any Motorola MCU user groups so that I can post this request? Thanks in advance, Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 20:44:06 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA05475; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:40:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from igate1.hac.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA05470; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:40:51 -0400 Received: from hyperion.hdos.hac.com ([146.58.30.1]) by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24034; Tue, 25 Jul 95 13:38:49 PDT Received: from daedalus.hdos.hac.com by hyperion.hdos.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03086; Tue, 25 Jul 95 16:42:41 EDT Received: From HDOS_DPC/WORKQUEUE by daedalus.hdos.hac.com via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950725163822.352; 25 Jul 95 16:40:42 +0500 Message-Id: From: "John T Stein" To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:38:18 ET Subject: Re: GM C3 qns.. Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 09:57:38 +1000 (EST) > From: Craig Pugsley > Subject: GM C3 qns.. > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Also, should the 'check engine' light flash fault codes at engine startup > or only when you bridge the ALDL connector? (This is my main question > actually) > > Cheers, > Craig. Craig, The "check engine" lamp only flashes codes when you have bridged the ALDL connector with the engine not running. Bridging the ALDL when the engine is running will cause the ECM to enter what GM refers to as "field service" mode in which the lamp flashes rapidly (about twice/second) when the ECM is operating open-loop, and about once per second when in closed loop. In field service mode the lamp duty cycle gives SOME indication of fuel mixture, with the lamp spending more time "on" as the mixture gets richer. John From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 21:51:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA05647; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:46:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mamacass.sp.trw.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA05642; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:46:46 -0400 Received: from zombie.dpdl (zombie.sp.TRW.COM) by mamacass.sp.trw.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14717; Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:46:39 PDT Date: Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:46:39 PDT From: scot@mamacass.sp.trw.com (Scot O. Stockton) Message-Id: <9507252146.AA14717@mamacass.sp.trw.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Fuel Pump Spec (was:Re: Voltage Comp) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >> EFI fuel > >> pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply voltages. > >> You could start there or measure things yourself. > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> Ed Lansinger > > > >Can we peons get our hands on these specs somehow? > >-S > When I was a peon ;) I found it was just a matter of getting in touch > with the right engineer sympathetic to your cause. Being able to > state succinctly what information you are looking for helped a lot. > It never hurts to have a company or school name behind you, too. > In many cases it was much simpler than that - with at least one pump > manufacturer this information was in their sales brochure which they > happily sent out for free. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Ed Lansinger OK, my particular interest is the Bosch pump that I have in my rod. It is the one supplied by ACCEL with their kit. I've tweaked here and there and I am thinking that I do not have sufficient flow above 3500 rpm for the engine. Anyone know who to call for Bosch pump info? Thanks. -S From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 21:59:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA05690; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:58:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA05685; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 17:58:12 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA09860; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:00:47 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA54178; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:55:04 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 15:53:35 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: Silicon Systems ... To: diy_efi In-Reply-To: <9507252146.AA14717@mamacass.sp.trw.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have the .ps file that contains the datasheet for that SS chip ??? I just found the HIP 9010 on harris.com and life is good :) Jim PS: Who is adding knock control to the 1987-91 BMW M3 ... gotta push the limits :) From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 22:44:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA05894; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:35:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA05889; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:35:05 -0400 Message-Id: <199507252235.SAA05889@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA155341702; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:35:02 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: Silicon Systems ... To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:35:02 EDT In-Reply-To: ; from "Jim Conforti" at Jul 25, 95 3:53 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ ~ ~ I just found the HIP 9010 on harris.com and life is good :) ~ ~ Jim ~ Where did you find the HIP 9010? I have been searching for quite a while, but with no luck! - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 22:47:00 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA05924; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:44:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dub-img-4.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA05919; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:44:54 -0400 Received: by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id SAA28142; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:44:46 -0400 Date: 25 Jul 95 18:32:36 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: SSI 67F687 Supply Problems? Message-ID: <950725223236_100341.377_EHQ51-2@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone know of a source (anywhere) that has the SSI 67F687 in stock? Here in the UK they are on 16 week delivery and rumors suggest that even that may be optimistic. Martin Evans 100341.377@compuserve.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 22:50:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA05962; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:49:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA05957; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 18:49:15 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08283; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:51:51 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22799; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:46:05 -0600 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 16:45:30 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: Re: Silicon Systems ... To: Bruce Bowling Cc: diy_efi In-Reply-To: <199507252235.SAA05889@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Bruce Bowling wrote: > Where did you find the HIP 9010? I have been searching for > quite a while, but with no luck! www.harris.com ... it's in the intelligent power devices section .. Jim From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 25 23:29:52 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA06283; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:22:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id TAA06278; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:22:17 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 19:22:17 -0400 From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Message-Id: <199507252322.TAA06278@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Jeffrey.Giberstein@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey Giberstein) Subject: MAF To: diy_efi I've got tons and tons of questions so I hope nobody minds. Thanks for all the help so far. I'm wondering why the general practice is to place MAF sensors upstream of the throttle body. I assume that this is to prevent it from being overly sensitive to backpressure and reversion pulses and other such mysterious business but it also seems like this would sacrifice a good deal of responsiveness. Supposing I wanted to place my MAF sensor a ways downstream of my throttle body but at a point in my manifold where it still had some capacitance below it. Do you think that its output would be so erratic that it would be useless? Any suggestions on an algorithm that would help? Thankkkkks, Jeff From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 00:19:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 01:19:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA06929; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:17:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA06924; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:17:12 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id LAA27282 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:17:01 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199507260117.LAA27282@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: your mail To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:17:00 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199507252322.TAA06278@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> from "John S Gwynne" at Jul 25, 95 07:22:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1943 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > From: Jeffrey.Giberstein@Dartmouth.EDU (Jeffrey Giberstein) > Subject: MAF > To: diy_efi > > I've got tons and tons of questions so I hope nobody minds. Thanks for all > the help so far. > > I'm wondering why the general practice is to place MAF sensors upstream of the > throttle body. I assume that this is to prevent it from being overly sensitive > to backpressure and reversion pulses and other such mysterious business but it > also seems like this would sacrifice a good deal of responsiveness. Supposing > I wanted to place my MAF sensor a ways downstream of my throttle body but at a > point in my manifold where it still had some capacitance below it. Do you > think that its output would be so erratic that it would be useless? Any > suggestions on an algorithm that would help? > > Thankkkkks, > Jeff, to maximise the responiveness of the complete system, you would be better off placing the throttle bodies as close to the inlet ports as possible. If possible, a separate butterfly for each runner would be best. The dynamics of the inlet system are significantly faster than the reponse time of the MAF sensor during quick throttle changes and thus there would be little gain in placing it further downstream. Ideally, the plenumn would have as small a volume as possible without restricting the gas flow, if response was all that you were worried about. A MAP or TPS based speed/density system would respond as fast as you desire. Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 01:57:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA07002; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:53:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA06997; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 21:53:04 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260153.VAA06997@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 03:11:48 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 19:07 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 02:17:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA07059; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:16:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA07054; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:16:01 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260216.WAA07054@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 03:34:46 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 19:30 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 02:17:45 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA07081; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:17:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA07070; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:17:17 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA01977; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:17:04 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/MERCMAIL by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 26 Jul 95 12:17:14 +1000 Received: from MERCMAIL by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 26 Jul 95 12:16:34 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:16:29 EST+10 Subject: Re: Silicon Systems ... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <195EF302417@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anyone have the .ps file that contains the datasheet for that > SS chip ??? > I have put the file 67f687.pdf on our ftp site. ftp://cim.cim.swin.edu.au/pub/uploads/aden/ This is in the adobe pdf format. Get the viewer from www.adobe.com Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 02:49:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA07312; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 02:45:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA07307; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 22:45:12 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260245.WAA07307@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 04:03:15 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 19:58 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 03:15:17 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA07373; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:13:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA07368; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:13:22 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260313.XAA07368@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 04:32:07 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 20:27 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 03:49:46 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA07449; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:44:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA07444; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 23:44:49 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260344.XAA07444@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 05:03:36 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 20:59 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 04:19:46 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA07517; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 04:12:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA07512; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:12:06 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260412.AAA07512@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 05:30:54 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 21:26 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 05:14:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA07649; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:12:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA07644; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:12:03 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260512.BAA07644@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 06:30:45 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 22:26 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 05:45:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA07724; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:44:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA07719; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 01:44:16 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260544.BAA07719@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 07:03:06 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Tue, 25 Jul 95 22:58 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 07:29:16 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA07889; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:11:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA07884; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 03:11:57 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260711.DAA07884@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 08:30:48 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Wed, 26 Jul 95 00:26 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 09:09:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id JAA08046; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 09:08:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA08041; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 05:08:33 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507260908.FAA08041@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 10:27:28 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Wed, 26 Jul 95 02:22 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 10:35:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id KAA08173; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:32:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA08168; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 06:32:39 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507261032.GAA08168@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 11:51:35 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Wed, 26 Jul 95 03:47 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 11:46:36 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA08294; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 11:45:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA08289; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 07:45:30 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507261145.HAA08289@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 13:04:29 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Wed, 26 Jul 95 04:59 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 12:31:52 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA08381; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:30:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA08376; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:12 -0400 From: atsakiri@ford.com Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA26425 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 Message-Id: <199507261230.AA26425@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Spec (was:Re: Voltage Comp) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:46:39 PDT." <9507252146.AA14717@mamacass.sp.trw.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:30:07 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Anyone know who to call for Bosch pump info? There's a Bosch facility near Detroit. You could trying calling information in the 810 area code. The city is Farmington Hills. --- Anthony Tsakiris The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 14:09:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA08584; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:06:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from interport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA08579; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:06:50 -0400 Received: (from fhd@localhost) by interport.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA16363 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:03:25 -0400 From: Frank Deutschmann Message-Id: <199507261403.KAA16363@interport.net> Subject: Re: your mail To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:03:24 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507260117.LAA27282@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> from "robert dingli" at Jul 26, 95 11:17:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1185 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu robert dingli sez: > Jeff, to maximise the responiveness of the complete system, you would be better > off placing the throttle bodies as close to the inlet ports as possible. If > possible, a separate butterfly for each runner would be best. The dynamics of > the inlet system are significantly faster than the reponse time of the MAF > sensor during quick throttle changes and thus there would be little gain in > placing it further downstream. Ideally, the plenumn would have as small > a volume as possible without restricting the gas flow, if response was all that > you were worried about. A MAP or TPS based speed/density system would respond > as fast as you desire. OK, I had always thought this too, but why don't we see this in practice, especially on the Sports Prototypes (GTP) or F1 cars? True, we see individual butterflies, but I have never seen multiple MAF sensors placed near the ports. And the plenum's always seem rather huge to me. Any thoughts? -frank -- fhd@interport.net | The will to win means nothing without the will to *prepare* to win. 1 212 559 5534 | -- Bobby Knight (of Indiana basketball fame) 1 917 992 2248 | 1 718 746 7061 | From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 14:48:46 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA08745; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:43:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from interport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA08740; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:43:10 -0400 Received: (from fhd@localhost) by interport.net (8.6.10/8.6.10) id KAA20552 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:39:45 -0400 From: Frank Deutschmann Message-Id: <199507261439.KAA20552@interport.net> Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Spec (was:Re: Voltage Comp) To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 10:39:45 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199507261230.AA26425@internet-mail.ford.com> from "atsakiri@ford.com" at Jul 26, 95 08:30:07 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 443 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu atsakiri@ford.com sez: > There's a Bosch facility near Detroit. You could trying calling > information in the 810 area code. The city is Farmington Hills. Robert Bosch, USA: Maywood, ILL 708/865-5200 Ask for technical information. -frank -- fhd@interport.net | The will to win means nothing without the will to *prepare* to win. 1 212 559 5534 | -- Bobby Knight (of Indiana basketball fame) 1 917 992 2248 | 1 718 746 7061 | From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 18:24:07 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA10368; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 18:18:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA10363; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 14:18:34 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507261818.OAA10363@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 19:36:35 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Original-Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1826 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Wed, 26 Jul 95 11:31 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA06633; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 00:17:58 GMT Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA06627; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:17:53 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA011567649; Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Date: Tue, 25 Jul 1995 20:14:10 -0400 Message-Id: <950725201402_122888121@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re:Voltage Comp Content-Length: 972 Content-Type: binary Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Voltage Comp From: elansi01@ctlw3908.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (Ed Lansinger) > Full-open injector flow is not affected by voltage per se. Fuel pump > flow is, so you've still got to correct the full-open time. EFI fuel > pump manufacturers characterize their pumps at a range of supply > voltages. You could start there or measure things yourself. This seems like it would only apply if the fuel pressure fell below the regulated preset. I don't know how much over capacity the fuel pump has, but with today's eye on bottom line, I imagine that it is not a large margin. It would seem a good idea to lower the RPM limiter when voltage is low. This might stop high RPM lean-out and the sometimes disastrous results..... And make the owner take the car to the repair shop to get it fixed. I see a new error code coming... Low RPM limiter due to low volts or fuel pressure.... Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com  From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 19:36:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA10873; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 19:32:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA10867; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 15:32:15 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507261932.PAA10867@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 20:50:18 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:30:07 -0400 Original-Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Spec (was:Re: Voltage Comp) Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1564 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Wed, 26 Jul 95 12:45 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA08381; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:30:14 GMT Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA08376; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:12 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA26425 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 From: atsakiri@ford.com Message-Id: <199507261230.AA26425@internet-mail.ford.com> To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Spec (was:Re: Voltage Comp) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:46:39 PDT." <9507252146.AA14717@mamacass.sp.trw.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:30:07 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Content-Length: 279 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Anyone know who to call for Bosch pump info? There's a Bosch facility near Detroit. You could trying calling information in the 810 area code. The city is Farmington Hills. --- Anthony Tsakiris The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 26 21:35:06 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA12139; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 21:28:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mlode.mlode.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA12125; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 17:28:22 -0400 From: diy_efi Message-Id: <199507262128.RAA12125@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Report-Version: 2 >To: coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi To: diy_efi Date: Wed Jul 26 22:44:52 GMT 1995 Original-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:30:07 -0400 Original-Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Spec (was:Re: Voltage Comp) Not-Delivered-To: due to 12 Inability To Transfer ORIGINAL MESSAGE ATTACHED (rmail: Error # 15 'Cannot create lock file') En-Route-To: rhuish Content-Length: 1564 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by mlode.mlode.com; Wed, 26 Jul 95 14:40 PST Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA08381; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 12:30:14 GMT Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA08376; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:12 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA26425 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 26 Jul 1995 08:30:09 -0400 From: atsakiri@ford.com Message-Id: <199507261230.AA26425@internet-mail.ford.com> To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Fuel Pump Spec (was:Re: Voltage Comp) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 25 Jul 95 14:46:39 PDT." <9507252146.AA14717@mamacass.sp.trw.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 95 08:30:07 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Content-Length: 279 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Anyone know who to call for Bosch pump info? There's a Bosch facility near Detroit. You could trying calling information in the 810 area code. The city is Farmington Hills. --- Anthony Tsakiris The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 27 00:28:45 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA13069; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:26:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA13055; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 20:26:08 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma029392; Thu Jul 27 09:16:35 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma024341; Thu Jul 27 10:24:17 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id KAA29618 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:24:12 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199507270024.KAA29618@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: LPG O2 sensors To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 10:24:09 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1057 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, Does anyone know if a standard O2 sensor will work with non-petrol fuels, such as LPG or Alcohol? I figure that if they work by residual oxygen then it should be OK (ignoring that the fuel might poison the sensor like leaded fuel). Also, FYI a local company is offering LPG EFI conversions for a range of popular EFI vehicles (certain others here might have a few things to say on this ;-). It appears that the liquid fuel from the tank goes to (probably via a pressure regulator) into a box that contains a standard EFI fuel system (pump/regulator etc). IE it's operation pumps the LPG around as a Liquid. The system uses an aftermarket computer (I would have thought it'd be more logical to use the stock computer with the pressure levels adjusted to get the flow rate correct, but I guess that might be a problem switching from petrol to LPG & all the self learning tables would be out of adjustment) Does anyone know how 'factory' efi vehicles with LPG option work? Surely they don't use the 'LPG carburettor' sort of equipment? Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 27 01:27:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA13491; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:26:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA13477; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 21:26:00 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #7) id m0sbHhr-000DIfC; Wed, 26 Jul 95 20:25 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: LPG O2 sensors To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 26 Jul 1995 20:25:47 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199507270024.KAA29618@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> from "Craig Pugsley" at Jul 27, 95 10:24:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1226 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Craig Pugsley writes: > > Does anyone know if a standard O2 sensor will work with non-petrol > fuels, such as LPG or Alcohol? I figure that if they work by residual > oxygen then it should be OK (ignoring that the fuel might poison the > sensor like leaded fuel). Yes, works fine. Be careful when using them with methanol, tho... we seemed to have EGT related problems, and only had a VERY narrow range around stoich that was consistant (like 50mV to each side). > It appears that the liquid fuel from the tank goes to (probably via a > pressure regulator) into a box that contains a standard EFI fuel system > (pump/regulator etc). IE it's operation pumps the LPG around as a > Liquid. You don't need to "pump" LPG. The vapor pressure should be adequate. > Does anyone know how 'factory' efi vehicles with LPG option work? Surely > they don't use the 'LPG carburettor' sort of equipment? Never seen a vehicle from the factory with LPG equipment... -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 27 01:27:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA13473; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 01:25:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA13459; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 21:24:59 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id LAA03353 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:24:41 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199507270124.LAA03353@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: efi intakes To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:24:41 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199507261403.KAA16363@interport.net> from "Frank Deutschmann" at Jul 26, 95 10:03:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2184 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Frank writes, > > robert dingli sez: > > Jeff, to maximise the responiveness of the complete system, you would be better > > off placing the throttle bodies as close to the inlet ports as possible. If > > possible, a separate butterfly for each runner would be best. The dynamics of > > the inlet system are significantly faster than the reponse time of the MAF > > sensor during quick throttle changes and thus there would be little gain in > > placing it further downstream. Ideally, the plenumn would have as small > > a volume as possible without restricting the gas flow, if response was all that > > you were worried about. A MAP or TPS based speed/density system would respond > > as fast as you desire. > > OK, I had always thought this too, but why don't we see this in practice, > especially on the Sports Prototypes (GTP) or F1 cars? True, we see individual > butterflies, but I have never seen multiple MAF sensors placed near the ports. > And the plenum's always seem rather huge to me. Any thoughts? > > -frank > -- I should have explained this a little better. To maximise response (as opposed to flow), one should aim to minimise the volume of the intake between the throttle plate(s) and the intake ports. In OEM efi system where there is a throttle-plenum-intake port intake, this means using as small a plenum as possible. In high performance applications where there is an air box-intake runners-individual throttle-intake ports intake, the volume of the air box (or plenum) is less significant. I have rarely come across racing applications which use MAF sensors. Most are throttle position based speed density system while turbo applications generally use MAP sensors. Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 27 02:07:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA13622; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 02:05:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA13608; Wed, 26 Jul 1995 22:05:27 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma006422; Thu Jul 27 10:55:15 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma002685; Thu Jul 27 12:02:42 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id MAA04495 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:02:39 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199507270202.MAA04495@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: LPG O2 sensors To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:02:37 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan R. Lusky" at Jul 26, 95 08:25:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 682 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > It appears that the liquid fuel from the tank goes to (probably via a > > pressure regulator) into a box that contains a standard EFI fuel system > > (pump/regulator etc). IE it's operation pumps the LPG around as a > > Liquid. > > You don't need to "pump" LPG. The vapor pressure should be adequate. > True, however this system is treating the LPG as a liquid fuel in the same sense as conventional petrol/gasoline. I was wondering if a standard LPG regulator would provide a constant pressure output, in the same manner as the fuel pressure regulator in a conventional gasoline EFI system. This would greatly simplify the installation, no pumps required. Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 27 04:27:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA14111; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 04:20:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from daneel.rdt.monash.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA14097; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 00:20:09 -0400 Received: from helena.rdt.monash.edu.au (helena.rdt.monash.edu.au [130.194.74.220]) by daneel.rdt.monash.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.4) with ESMTP id OAA24704 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 14:19:50 +1000 From: Angus Mackinnon Received: (angus@localhost) by helena.rdt.monash.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.4) id OAA06992 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 14:19:48 +1000 Message-Id: <199507270419.OAA06992@helena.rdt.monash.edu.au> Subject: Re: LPG O2 sensors To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 14:19:47 +1100 (GMT+11:00) In-Reply-To: <199507270202.MAA04495@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> from "Craig Pugsley" at Jul 27, 95 12:02:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1879 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > > It appears that the liquid fuel from the tank goes to (probably via a > > > pressure regulator) into a box that contains a standard EFI fuel system > > > (pump/regulator etc). IE it's operation pumps the LPG around as a > > > Liquid. > > > > You don't need to "pump" LPG. The vapor pressure should be adequate. > > > > True, however this system is treating the LPG as a liquid fuel in the > same sense as conventional petrol/gasoline. Craig, I assume you are talking about the Australian company LiquidPhase ( I think) based in Adelaide that is developing a liquid injection gas system. I can't remember the exact reasons but the LPG is pumped at high pressure (> 100psi seems to ring a bell, though this does seem extreme). The use of an aftermarket fuel injection computer is necessary as the injector pulse width is radically different to that for the OEM gasoline system I think that seperate injectors were used for the gas but I'm not sure, I'll have to chase up the article I read on it. > > I was wondering if a standard LPG regulator would provide a constant > pressure output, in the same manner as the fuel pressure regulator in a > conventional gasoline EFI system. This would greatly simplify the > installation, no pumps required. > The standard LPG system uses a converter to allow the liquid to expand to gas. The rate at which this happens is controlled by a diaphragm . So I don't think that it works quite the way you are thinking of. Regarding the O2 sensor, LPG systems fitted to cars after 1985 require that the O2 sensor be connected to provide closed loop control of the mixture to meet emission requirements for Victoria, Australia. ( I don't know what it is like in the USA. ) OEM LPG vehicles in Australia use LPG carbs as far as I know, I think the EFI is retained for dual fuel. Angus Mackinnon angus@rdt.monash.edu.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 27 16:45:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA16318; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 16:41:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from voga.rmit.EDU.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA16304; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 12:41:11 -0400 Received: from minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU by voga.rmit.EDU.AU with SMTP id AA27341 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/qva1-oz for ); Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:40:58 +1000 Received: (from s914440@localhost) by minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU (8.6.12/8.6.9/ram3) id CAA01262 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:40:58 +1000 From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Message-Id: <199507271640.CAA01262@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: questions... To: diy_efi (diy_efi list) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:40:57 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3578 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all, I introduced myself a while back, but have been silent. My project is beginning in ernest now, and I have a few questions: We have not decided upon the method of gauging air inflow to the engine. What are some pros and cons of Air Flow Meter based systems as compared to TPS/Manifold Vacuum based systems? What major strengths or weaknesses exist in these methods, and is there a consensus as to the "best" system? Any other systems? What specific sensors are required to implement each? In discussing common "fuel" circuit configurations, the question of why a mechanical type of fuel pressure regulator is commonly used, balanced against manifold pressure- does anyone use a pressure transducer in the fuel rail and compensate the injector open time for variations, rather than using a constant pressure? Any reasons why this is not used? I wondered about the effectiveness of the injectors over a broad pressure range- do they perform consistently with pressure changes? Also some method of circulating the fuel around the system for cooling is desirable to prevent vapour locks- any other good reasons for circulating the fuel? What does a fuel temp sensor's input effect directly and why? Is this considered only for the charge cooling effect or other reasons? My project is basically to be a processor based digital sequential injection and ignition controller, adaptable to other configurations, but to be developed around a cleaned up Rover 3.5 Litre V8 injection manifold (actually to be a 5 litre engine). This is a 3rd/4th year computer systems engineering project, as well as my special interest. The system is hoped to be able to handle LPG ignition control when using an LPG carby, with full injection and ignition control available when running high octane unleaded fuel. Starting on petrol and switching automatically to LPG will be also included. The system is hoped to be able to be expanded to handle knock sensing (hence sequential digital approach for inj and ign). System will probably be closed loop, and contain at least a "power" and "economy" mode for LPG and Petrol operation. We (there are three of us working on this) are at present trying to come up with a detailed definition for the system/project, and any input as relates to current state of the art systems and good/bad points of current or past methods would be greatly appreciated. At this point I think that timing of injection and ignition will probably be derived from crank position directly, and "which cylinder" resolution from cam or old distributor drive position (distributor no longer to be used). In order to fire the first cyl to reach TDC, cylinder pairs will probably be batch fired for at least the initial revolution during cranking, then sequential individual events once correct referencing is achieved. Whole system will "talk" via removable data link to a PC for calibration, monitoring and data collection (self calibration on the road maybe?). Anyone with any input relating to aspects of this project, or general comments, I would love to hear from you- either here on the list, or via direct email if more appropriate to s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au BTW what is the spec and current state of the efi332 project I hear mentioned? Can I be subscribed to its proceedings? I am also interested in what other peoples' projects entail- what features do you all hold dear? That's probably more than too many questions for now anyway, (I will probably find many more), so I'll say goodbye. Regards, Brian Tiedemann. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 27 19:37:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA17870; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:29:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA17856; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:28:59 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA10327; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:31:34 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA79582; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:25:51 -0600 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:25:02 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: 67f687 chip ... To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Guys, I cannot get Andrew's .pdf file to work for me ... Does anyone else have a copy, or a *.ps file of this datasheet? Jim From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 00:01:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA19211; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:56:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA19197; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:56:10 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA01262; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:56:05 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/MERCMAIL by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 28 Jul 95 09:56:12 +1000 Received: from MERCMAIL by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 28 Jul 95 09:55:55 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:55:48 EST+10 Subject: Re: 67f687 chip ... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <1C39BD3679B@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 13:25:02 -700 (MDT) > From: Jim Conforti > Subject: 67f687 chip ... > To: DIY_EFI > Reply-to: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Guys, > > I cannot get Andrew's .pdf file to work for me ... > > Does anyone else have a copy, or a *.ps file of this datasheet? > I've generated a postscript version of the file which you can retrieve as either a normal .ps file or a zipped version. The location is: ftp://cim.cim.swin.edu.au/pub/uploads/aden/ the files are: 67f687.pdf (binary) 67f687.ps (ascii) 67f687.zip (binary) I downloaded the .pdf file from our ftp site to check it and it's not corrupted... I hope this helps Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 00:09:22 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA19243; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:05:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA19229; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 20:05:04 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA01290; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:05:00 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/MERCMAIL by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 28 Jul 95 10:05:07 +1000 Received: from MERCMAIL by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 28 Jul 95 10:04:39 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:04:31 EST+10 Subject: Re: questions... Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <1C3C1174B5F@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Brian, I maintain the WWW page for the EFI332 project. It is located at: http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/wwwhome/aden/efi332/efi332.html Info on how to subscribe is contained there. To quote directly: This project is discussed via a mailing list maintained by John S Gwynne. You can subscribe by sending email to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu with the following commands in the body of your email message: subscribe efi_332 your_email_address It's good to see another Melbourne voice: there's at least 4 of us now! Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 04:00:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA22164; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 03:54:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cougar.multiline.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA22149; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:52:23 -0400 Received: from at.multiline.com.au (at.multiline.com.au [203.5.127.35]) by cougar.multiline.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA05869 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:38:05 +0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:38:05 +0800 Message-Id: <199507280338.LAA05869@cougar.multiline.com.au> X-Sender: at@multiline.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: at@multiline.com.au (Adam Tate) Subject: GM Holden Ignition X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I own a Holden Commodore V6, which runs the same computer (I think) as most other GM vehicles. The way I understand it, is that only the MEMCAL gets changed for particluar vehicles. Anyway, my question is - Is there a way to adjust total ignition advance outside of the MEMCAL. My engine has minor mods such as bigger intake, free flow exhaust and slight compression increase. I wish to run a more volatile fuel (namely avgas - BP100 racing fuel) and adjust the ignition to suit. I already have an aftermarket PowerChip MEMCAL fitted which gives quite good power and torque increases. I'm not really after big power gains here, it's more of an experiment than anything. If reprogramming the MEMCAL is the only alternative, how easy is it to do? I realise special hardware is required, but what about software? Also, I realise the high lead content of avgas will damage my catalytic converter, but just quietly, mine has been taken out. Also I am prepared to sacrifice an oxygen sensor in the name of research (well fun really). Any help is much appreciated. Adam Tate. [at@multiline.com.au] http://www.multiline.com.au/~atate/index.html From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 04:07:26 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA22201; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 04:03:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA22187; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:03:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199507280403.AAA22187@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: questions... In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 95 10:04:31 EST." <1C3C1174B5F@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 00:03:11 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- In message <1C3C1174B5F@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> , you write: | It's good to see another Melbourne voice: there's at least 4 of us | now! This is not EFI related, but I thought you might find this of interest. I did a for i in `cat diy_efi | sed "s/>//; s/.*\.//" | sort -f -u`; do grep -i "\.$i$" diy_efi | wc -l | sed "s/^ */$i /"; done on the diy_efi list to look at our demographics based on IP address. Here's the results: com 93 edu 49 au 26 ca 15 net 9 gov 7 org 7 se 7 uk 7 fi 5 mil 4 us 3 de 2 gr 2 nl 2 no 2 id 1 it 1 nz 1 za 1 It's interesting to see "com" out-numbers "edu" and "au" out-numbers "ca". (gee... I hope this doesn't start a flame war. :) ) John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 05:30:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA22412; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05:25:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gater3.sematech.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA22398; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 01:25:08 -0400 Received: from GATEV4.SEMATECH.ORG by gater3.sematech.org (8.6.12/F-1.9) with ESMTP id AAA11069; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:24:59 -0500 Received: from MR.SEMATECH.Org by SEMATECH.Org (PMDF V4.3-13 #5463) id <01HTDU67MF5S8ZE1XX@SEMATECH.Org>; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:23:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: with PMDF-MR; Thu, 27 Jul 1995 23:43:10 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta GATEV3; Relayed; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:23:28 -0500 (CDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 15:24:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759 Subject: LIQUID LPG INJECTION To: diy_efi Message-id: <01HTDU7GLPX08ZE1XX@MR.SEMATECH.Org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Posting-date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:56:00 -0500 (CDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-MTS-identifier: [;01343272705991/1605068@VAXEN] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all, I'd like to comment on the reports of a liquid LPG injection system. I think the reason this system is being developed is that as the LPG goes from as liquid to a gaseous state it absorps heat thereby cooling the intake charge considerably. Now in a turbocharged system you would have a built in intercooler without the extra plumbing or pressure drop associated with most intercoolers. Furthermore, a denser and cooler intake charge will provide more power, all other things being equal. This may help compensate for LPG's lower BTU content as compared to Gasoline in a non LPG optimised engine. Steve M Knickerbocker Thunderstruck... From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 07:51:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA22764; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 07:49:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA22750; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 03:48:58 -0400 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id RAA05007 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:48:26 +1000 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199507280748.RAA05007@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: GM Holden Ignition To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:48:26 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199507280338.LAA05869@cougar.multiline.com.au> from "Adam Tate" at Jul 28, 95 11:38:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1070 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Adam, ... > Also, I realise the high lead content of avgas will damage my > catalytic converter, but just quietly, mine has been taken out. Also I am > prepared to sacrifice an oxygen sensor in the name of research (well fun > really). Naughty, naughty. Just for the record, I've been using leaded fuel in my '74 Daimler 4.2 with an O2 sensor in the exhaust for over two years. It has not appeared to have suffered at all due to lead poisoning. > > Any help is much appreciated. > > Adam Tate. > [at@multiline.com.au] > http://www.multiline.com.au/~atate/index.html > > Robert -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 14:57:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA24908; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:55:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA24894; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:55:30 -0400 Received: from twisto by wotan.compaq.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0sbqcT-0009sTC; Fri, 28 Jul 95 09:42 CDT Received: from bangate.compaq.com by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0sbqc5-000uLaC; Fri, 28 Jul 95 09:42 CDT Received: by bangate.compaq.com; Fri, 28 Jul 95 9:42:03 CDT Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 9:42:01 CDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: Subject: re: Re: questions... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu John S Gwynne Wrote: | This is not EFI related, but I thought you might find this of | interest. I did a | | for i in `cat diy_efi | sed "s/>//; s/.*\.//" | sort -f -u`; | do grep -i "\.$i$" diy_efi | wc -l | sed "s/^ */$i /"; done | I really don't get it when people say unix is hard to understand.... :-) --steve From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 17:26:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA25311; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 17:24:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA25297; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:24:17 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08037; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:26:51 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA10473; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:21:01 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 11:19:53 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: Re: 67f687 chip ... To: Andrew Dennison Cc: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <1C39BD3679B@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks to Andrew and all who helped ... I now have a copy of the 687 datasheet ... Thanks ... Jim PS: What is the *deal* with availability ... is some OEM using most of them up?!? From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 18:43:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA25582; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:42:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA25568; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:42:05 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA08479; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:44:37 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA105045; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:38:53 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12:38:05 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: IGBT ?? To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Would someone of you EE types tell me WHAT an IGBT is .. And where you can get them?? They are all over the darn place in the 687 stuff ... Jim From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 19:48:53 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA25858; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:46:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate2.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA25844; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:46:13 -0400 Received: by egate2.eds.com (hello) id PAA24727; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:46:01 -0400 Received: by igate2.eds.com (hello) id PAA22914; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:46:00 -0400 Received: from ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA16963; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:45:20 -0400 Received: from ctlp0045.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.55.179]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA025530504; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:41:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 15:24:59 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: RE: IGBT ?? To: DIY_EFI X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Would someone of you EE types tell me WHAT an IGBT is .. Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor. Essentially a cross between a MOSFET and a BJT (oops, more EE-speak :) ). All you need to know is that you can connect this device directly to a normal CMOS output on your favorite microcontroller to switch large currents (as would flow through, say for sake of argument, an ignition coil). The required drive current is very low (zero at steady-state) as opposed to a normal BJT transistor. The heat dissipation is very low for large switch currents because the voltage drop across the device at saturation is only a couple of volts, as opposed to a high-voltage MOSFET which would typically have a high drain- source resistance in the "on" state and thus large power dissipation for large switch currents. The ones of biggest concern to DIYers have built-in transient overvoltage protection diodes to clamp high voltages, like when you leave the plug wires disconnected and try to start the engine. I have a part number that works very well for this sort of thing if anyone is curious. >And where you can get them?? Motorola makes them, but good luck! They are as hard to find as hen's teeth. I assume that's because they get Hoovered up immediately by the car companies (my employer included) and their suppliers. ------------------------------------------------------- Ed Lansinger General Motors Powertrain Powertrain Control Center Premium V Software & Calibration Group Milford Proving Ground, Milford, MI elansi01@mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com 8-341-3049 (810) 684-3049 ------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 19:59:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA25950; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:57:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from us.dynix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA25936; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:57:44 -0400 Received: from cpu.us.dynix.com by us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA09451; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:00:13 -0600 Received: by cpu.us.dynix.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA45965; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:54:29 -0600 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 13:52:55 -700 (MDT) From: Jim Conforti Subject: RE: IGBT ?? To: Ed Lansinger Cc: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 28 Jul 1995, Ed Lansinger wrote: > >Would someone of you EE types tell me WHAT an IGBT is .. > > Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor. Essentially a cross between a > MOSFET and a BJT (oops, more EE-speak :) ). :) MOSFET and BJT .. those I know .. OK .. I had just NEVER heard of an IGBT ... Jim From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 20:15:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA25998; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 20:14:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from juliet.ll.mit.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA25984; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:14:46 -0400 Received: from fuelrod ([129.55.49.1]) by juliet.ll.mit.edu id AA06417g; Fri, 28 Jul 95 16:02:43 EDT Received: by fuelrod (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03674; Fri, 28 Jul 95 13:54:39 MDT Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 13:54:39 MDT From: jvp%fuelrod@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Jim Pieronek) Message-Id: <9507281954.AA03674@fuelrod> To: DIY_EFI Subject: IGBT ?? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim Conforti writes: > > Would someone of you EE types tell me WHAT an IGBT is .. Insulated Gate Bipolar Transistor It is like an NPN bipolar transistor with an FET gate instead of a bipolar base. They are voltage controlled instead of current controlled. In applications switching more than 400 volts at more than, say, ten amps they are more efficient than FETs. I've never used them so I can't tell you much more. > > And where you can get them?? > The fine folks at Digi-Key are more than happy to list them in their catalog. Whether they have them on the shelf is another question altogether. Jim ======================================================================= J. V. Pieronek Phone: (505) 243-5822 MIT Lincoln Laboratory Internet: jvp@ll.mit.edu Terminal Radar Development Facility Albuquerque, New Mexico From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 28 23:14:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA27046; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:12:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gater3.sematech.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA27031; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 19:12:15 -0400 Received: from GATEV4.SEMATECH.ORG by gater3.sematech.org (8.6.12/F-1.9) with ESMTP id SAA16108; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:12:12 -0500 Received: from MR.SEMATECH.Org by SEMATECH.Org (PMDF V4.3-13 #5463) id <01HTEVGJEJXC8WXHAN@SEMATECH.Org>; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:10:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: with PMDF-MR; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:10:50 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta GATEV3; Relayed; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:10:28 -0500 (CDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:00:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759 Subject: Intro To: diy_efi Message-id: <01HTEVGO32O68WXHAN@MR.SEMATECH.Org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID 35IxQ201dyf1h8BGTtZgbg)" Posting-date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 18:01:00 -0500 (CDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-MTS-identifier: [;05018182705991/1607494@VAXEN] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu --Boundary (ID 35IxQ201dyf1h8BGTtZgbg) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII --Boundary (ID 35IxQ201dyf1h8BGTtZgbg) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:56:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759 Subject: Introduction To: Distribution List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 19:14:00 -0500 (CDT) Importance: normal A1-type: MAIL Hello all, I'd like to introduce myself. I am Steve M Knickerbocker. I currently work at Sematech in Austin, TX. My fields of expertise are in the areas of maintenance and field engineering in most area of electronics. I am interested in your concepts and am avidly reading the archive in order to get up to speed. My daily driver is a 72 Dodge Dart with a mild 360 in it. My wife's ride is an 87 Dodge Diplomat with a 318 (former leanburn) and my project car is a 38 Plymouth Coupe slated to recieve a 360 as well. As you can tell I have a fondness for MoPars and V8s. Thunderstruck... --Boundary (ID 35IxQ201dyf1h8BGTtZgbg)-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 29 03:01:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA27569; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 02:58:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eagle.natinst.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA27555; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 22:58:12 -0400 Received: (from klopfer@localhost) by eagle.natinst.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) id VAA15671 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 21:58:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 21:58:09 -0500 From: Mike Klopfer Message-Id: <199507290258.VAA15671@eagle.natinst.com> To: diy_efi Subject: efi from an at bus plug in board Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I've been thinking about doing efi using a board plugged into an AT bus on a pc. Perhaps the board could have a 67f687 and some a/d converters. I noticed that the efi332 project is talking about the MAX186 a/d. I saw it in a Digikey catalog for $17. I'm hoping that I could use a MACH110 ($11 Newark) which has 44 pins to do the glue to the AT bus. This might include the serial to parallel conversion for interfacing to the MAX186. I'd appreciate any information about using or the availability of the MACH110 or MAX186 chips. Since 386-40MHz motherboards are <$100 it might even make a convenient embedded controller. mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 29 03:34:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA27790; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 03:32:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from localhost by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA27776; Fri, 28 Jul 1995 23:32:16 -0400 Message-Id: <199507290332.XAA27776@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 28 Jul 95 21:58:09 CDT." <199507290258.VAA15671@eagle.natinst.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 95 23:32:16 -0400 From: John S Gwynne Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -------- In message <199507290258.VAA15671@eagle.natinst.com> , you write: | conversion for interfacing to the MAX186. I'd appreciate any information abou | t | using or the availability of the MACH110 or MAX186 chips. There was a shortage of MAX186's around April-May. I called all of the franchised distributors in the US with no luck. MAXIM was not even sampling them. DIGI-KEY had stopped taking orders. I finely received samples by the end of June and DIGI-KEY was shipping again by the end of July. My advice is to order in advance and order extras. (YMMV) John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 29 04:15:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA27982; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 04:12:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from postoffice.mail.cornell.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA27968; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 00:12:29 -0400 Received: from [132.236.155.146] (CU-DIALUP-0903.CIT.CORNELL.EDU [132.236.155.81]) by postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA05919 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 00:12:27 -0400 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 00:12:27 -0400 X-Sender: spm4@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: spm4@cornell.edu (Sean Magnuson) Subject: Yamaha FJ1200 Project Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey! I'm new here, and I must confess that the main reason I have subscribed is to obtain suggestions on converting my carbureted 1986 Yamaha FJ1200 motorcycle to fuel injection. I am currently using the four stock 36mm Mikuni carburetors with various jetting and slide-spring combinations to achieve different power curves, but I'm getting tired of changing the set-up every time I want to switch from quarter-mile runs to highway cruising. I've installed a four -into-one exhaust system, upgraded ignition system, slightly hotter cams, an air/fuel monitor, and fabricated a fiberglass airbox and ram-air system. I am interested in developing as much power as I can, but without sacrificing streetability. Having recently graduated, I am planning a trip across the U.S. with my dog, Max, in-tow. Yeah, you heard right - I fabricated a hitch and trailer system to keep him happy while providing valuable"trunk" space. I am looking for the ever-elusive combination of reliability, power, and mileage. I know there's someone out there who can help me, so here's my questions: Q: Is it best to go with a "generic" four cylinder system or a system designed for specific displacement and rpm characteristics? Q: Are there systems which allow easy programming via commercially available software? Q: Are there sources for dependable used systems - eg. small autos? Q: While I have read and understand most of the recent postings on DIY-EFI, I am not heavily versed in theoretical approaches. Are there microprocessors that can be hybridized or built from scratch by someone (like me) with a good practical understanding of circuit construction? Any suggestions or comments are appreciated. Sean Magnuson - Cornell University e-mail: spm4@cornell.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 30 04:32:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA00425; Sun, 30 Jul 1995 04:08:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from grolsch.cs.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA00411; Sun, 30 Jul 1995 00:08:30 -0400 Received: (from ean@localhost) by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (8.6.10/8.6.9) id VAA02846 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 21:08:26 -0700 X400-Received: by /PRMD=ca/ADMD=telecom.canada/C=ca/; Relayed; Sat, 29 Jul 1995 21:08:24 UTC-0700 Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 21:08:24 UTC-0700 X400-Originator: rodb@cs.ubc.ca X400-Recipients: non-disclosure:; X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-MTS-Identifier: [/PRMD=ca/ADMD=telecom.canada/C=ca/;950729210824] Content-Identifier: 3067 From: Rod Barman To: DIY_EFI In-Reply-To: <199507290332.XAA27776@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: <"3067*rodb@cs.ubc.ca"@MHS> Subject: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board MIME-Version: 1.0 (Generated by Ean X.400 to MIME gateway) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > There was a shortage of MAX186's around April-May. As a general rule, a semiconductor that's easily available today may be unobtainable tomorrow. Nothing makes sense in the semiconductor market anymore. I try to design things where components of which I have a choice are featured in the Digikey catalog. Even if I don't buy it from Digikey, I am reasonably sure I could get it from them. Motorola is especially bad at this. The MAX186 works great, especially with Moto SPI bus devices. I've thrown a circuit together following there example and it worked well. The MACH devices are nice. You've got to have software and a programmer to make them work of course. They use less power and cost less than the 22V10s they replaced !!. I would suggest you at least check out the efi332 project before embarking on something new on your own. --rod. -- Rod Barman, IRIS ISDE-6 @ Laboratory for Computational Intelligence University of British Columbia rodb@cs.ubc.ca From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 31 16:00:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA03894; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:54:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA03879; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:54:20 -0400 From: ALIPPER@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (1.37.109.11/16.2) id AA186236055; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:54:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 11:54:15 -0400 Message-Id: <950731115415_44578549@aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >I've been thinking about doing efi using a board plugged into an AT bus on >a pc... Last year I designed and built an EFI system using just such a board. I used a PC as the brain, and on the board I used a variety of "intelligent" peripheral chips to handle RPM measurement, injector pulse-width timing and sync, a 16-channel A/D converter, and a couple of dozen parallel inputs. The board was more of a concept test and software development platform than anything else, but really works (the car ran well enough). The nice thing about it is that it's so programmable, it can be adapted to run (or control) just about anything. It was designed so that it would allow the car to run even if the control program was interrupted, and therefore could use a really slow machine or program (great for development). It uses about $25 worth of parts and can even be proto-boarded. Anyway, I'd be happy to share the schematic (It was designed using OrCAD) and functional description with anyone who is interested - Just let me know. - Al - alipper@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 31 16:07:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA03927; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:06:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from orpheus.amdahl.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA03913; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 12:06:37 -0400 Received: from cliffy.eng.amdahl.com by orpheus.amdahl.com with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0scxMO-0001ZEC; Mon, 31 Jul 95 09:06 PDT Received: from opus.eng.amdahl.com by cliffy.eng.amdahl.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29710; Mon, 31 Jul 95 09:06:31 PDT Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 09:06:31 PDT From: tky00@eng.amdahl.com (Tim Yoshihara) Message-Id: <9507311606.AA29710@cliffy.eng.amdahl.com> To: diy_efi Subject: unsub Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unsub diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 31 17:19:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA04338; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:17:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from egate2.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA04324; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:17:32 -0400 Received: by egate2.eds.com (hello) id NAA14972; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:17:28 -0400 Received: by igate2.eds.com (hello) id NAA14117; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:17:27 -0400 Received: from ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA05420; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:16:48 -0400 Received: from ctlp0045.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.55.179]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA155280750; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 13:12:30 -0400 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:12:00 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: RE: IGBT ?? To: DIY_EFI X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The Motorola MGP20N40CL is a nice IGBT for ignition coil drive. It has internal clamping diodes for voltage protection (400V) and can handle 20 amps. In practice, with peak coil currents of 10A, it only needs a small heat sink. You can drive it directly from a 5V CMOS output. ------------------------------------------------------- Ed Lansinger General Motors Powertrain Powertrain Control Center Premium V Software & Calibration Group Milford Proving Ground, Milford, MI elansi01@mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com 8-341-3049 (810) 684-3049 ------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 31 18:31:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA04810; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:28:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from lynx.informix.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA04796; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 14:28:02 -0400 Received: from cheetah.informix.com by lynx.informix.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA02308; Mon, 31 Jul 95 11:32:55 -0700 From: Gary Dunn Received: by cheetah id ; Mon, 31 Jul 95 11:27:52 PDT Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 11:27:52 PDT Message-Id: <9507311827.AA03819@cheetah> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Al, I would be very interested in such a board. I have been thinking of doing a design like this for the past six months but I have never gotten out of the thought mode. If you are willing to share, that would be great and I would appreciate it very much. Thanks, Gary From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 31 18:35:49 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA04881; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:35:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from jsun.agen.okstate.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA04867; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 14:35:09 -0400 Received: by jsun.agen.okstate.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01176; Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:37:48 CDT Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:37:48 CDT From: vmike@agen.okstate.edu (Mike Veldman) Message-Id: <9507311837.AA01176@jsun.agen.okstate.edu> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Al, I am interested in taking a look at the schematic and description of the system you have assembled. I have a 4cyl engine on a stand that I'd like to set up in a similar manner. Please mail me the stuff if you can. Thanks alot. mike vmike@agen.okstate.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 31 20:10:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA05502; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:06:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from farside.atinc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA05488; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:06:10 -0400 Received: from cc.atinc.com by farside.atinc.com with SMTP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA13133; Mon, 31 Jul 95 16:04:50 -0400 Received: from cc:Mail by cc.atinc.com id AA807231951; Mon, 31 Jul 95 16:01:00 EST Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 16:01:00 EST From: "Bill Dermond" Message-Id: <9506318072.AA807231951@cc.atinc.com> To: diy_efi Subject: unsub Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unsub diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 31 20:10:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA05532; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:10:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gatekeeper.nsc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA05518; Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:10:12 -0400 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by gatekeeper.nsc.com (5.65/fma-120691) with SMTP; id AA09360 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:10:07 -0700 Received: from gpo.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA27415 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:10:05 -0700 Received: from SPF.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by gpo.nsc.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA03382; Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:07:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:07:12 -0700 Message-Id: <9507312007.AA03382@gpo.nsc.com> From: dmorrill%spf.dnet@gpo.nsc.com (DAVE MORRILL HPL DESIGN ENG 207-775-8574) To: "DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu"%GPO.dnet@gpo.nsc.com Cc: DMORRILL@gpo.nsc.com Subject: EFI from AT bus plug in Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Al, Great project! I too am interested in looking at the schematics, also interested in what you did for software. Myself and a friend are just getting started w/ our efi project and have been evaluating existing OEM systems for modification to suit our needs, but your idea sounds like it may be a more flexible approach as well as being easily expanded on. Best, Dave dmorrill%spf.dnet@gpo.nsc.com From: GPO::"owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" 31-JUL-1995 12:43:48.86 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: Subj: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board >I've been thinking about doing efi using a board plugged into an AT bus on >a pc... Last year I designed and built an EFI system using just such a board. I used a PC as the brain, and on the board I used a variety of "intelligent" peripheral chips to handle RPM measurement, injector pulse-width timing and sync, a 16-channel A/D converter, and a couple of dozen parallel inputs. The board was more of a concept test and software development platform than anything else, but really works (the car ran well enough). The nice thing about it is that it's so programmable, it can be adapted to run (or control) just about anything. It was designed so that it would allow the car to run even if the control program was interrupted, and therefore could use a really slow machine or program (great for development). It uses about $25 worth of parts and can even be proto-boarded. Anyway, I'd be happy to share the schematic (It was designed using OrCAD) and functional description with anyone who is interested - Just let me know. - Al - alipper@aol.com