From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 1 17:27:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA00373; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:18:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from anvil.gatech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA08495; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:15:45 -0400 Received: from acmex.gatech.edu (gt0035b@acmex.gatech.edu [130.207.165.22]) by anvil.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA23914 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:15:23 -0400 From: gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu (Henry David Sommer) Received: (gt0035b@localhost) by acmex.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA19211 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:15:21 -0400 Message-Id: <199509011715.NAA19211@acmex.gatech.edu> Subject: Hi Tim To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 13:15:21 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9508290150.AA0538@SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu> from "tdrury@SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu" at Aug 28, 95 06:48:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 772 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu HI Tim How are things with you? Did you ever get that suspension put in your car? I'm looking into getting a wireless serial cable for Ennis to use in setting up the DFI. Sterling showed us a brochure on one the has about a 1000 ft range and is suposed to be pretty imune to interfernce. However it's kind of expensive and we haven't found anyone with experince with such things. Do you know anything about them? Maybe a good place to get one? Thanks, Henry Henry Sommer | gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu | Georgia Institute of Technology Year 88 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 | 96 | ME and MATE | FSAE since 92 car # 66 | 23 | 23 | 42 | 42 | 99 | 99 | 5? | Maintainer of FSAE mailing list place 11 | 2 | 6 | 23 | 3 | 6 | 11 | ? | FSAE-request@list.gatech.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 1 21:36:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA02870; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 21:35:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA02856; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 17:35:06 -0400 Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id aa24226; 1 Sep 95 21:21 +0100 Received: from clintsmc.demon.co.uk by post.demon.co.uk id aa16094; 1 Sep 95 21:18 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 20:12:37 GMT From: Clint Sharp Message-Id: <316@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Re: Developing an Engine Control System Part 1 of 3 X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS Lines: 7 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Can I get Circuit Cellar Ink in the UK for just these three issues? -- We apologise for the lack of coherent humorous comments. Normal service will be resumed shortly. clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 5 22:19:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA12568; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 22:00:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from igw.fmc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA12554; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 18:00:23 -0400 Received: by igw.fmc.com id AA04614 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:00:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199509052200.AA04614@igw.fmc.com> Received: by igw.fmc.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Tue, 5 Sep 1995 17:00:19 -0500 Date: 5 Sep 1995 15:01:13 -0800 From: "YueMin Wong" Subject: None To: " EFI" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu REGARDING None Is it possible to get the EFI332 and the BDM interface board? If so, who can I contact to buy one? By the way, the schematic & layout FTP link doesn't work on the EFI332 Hardware page. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 6 00:57:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA12986; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:44:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA12972; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 20:44:36 -0400 Received: (from cb5222@localhost) by eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA05880 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:46:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199509060046.TAA05880@eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu> Subject: CD ignition To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:46:08 -0500 (CDT) From: (Chris Burian) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 192 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, Where can I find schematics for a CD ignition system? The only drawings I can find show me how they work, but are short on details on how to actually put one together. Thanks, Chris From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 6 01:25:08 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA13107; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 01:12:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA13093; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 21:12:24 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma007218; Wed Sep 6 09:38:39 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma012490; Wed Sep 6 11:07:22 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id LAA24259 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:07:20 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199509060107.LAA24259@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: 30 LED O2 meter.. To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:07:19 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 380 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Guys, I found the 30 led O2 meter at ftp.att.com in /pub/rx7/rx7_info/afmeter.zip When unzipped, there is an afmeter.gif and afmeter.ps afmeter.gif is unreadable, but afmeter.ps is good if you can veiw/print it. According to the readme, the design is based on one posted by Andrew Dennison, who is on DIY_EFI. The design is by Khouri Giordano, hardkore@li.net Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 6 04:45:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA22776; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 04:33:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA22762; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:33:16 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA29945; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:33:03 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/SpoolDir by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 6 Sep 95 14:33:29 +1000 Received: from SpoolDir by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 6 Sep 95 14:32:59 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI, efi332 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 14:32:52 EST+10 Subject: Re: EFI332 boards and WWW Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <1E4E320AB9@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Is it possible to get the EFI332 and the BDM interface board? If so, who can I > contact to buy one? There are currently discussions about designing V1.00 of the EFI332 board. I don't think there are any of the V0.40 boards left. I will redesign the BDM pcb as a double sided board which will be available from AP circuits - the same place from which you will be able to order the EFI332-1.00 boards. > By the way, the schematic & layout FTP link doesn't work > on the EFI332 Hardware page. > This has been fixed. The files are now on the Web server. Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 6 15:56:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA26809; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 15:53:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from igw.fmc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA26795; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:53:07 -0400 Received: by igw.fmc.com id AA22434 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 6 Sep 1995 10:52:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199509061552.AA22434@igw.fmc.com> Received: by igw.fmc.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 6 Sep 1995 10:52:40 -0500 Date: 6 Sep 1995 08:53:20 -0800 From: "YueMin Wong" Subject: Re: EFI332 boards and WWW To: "DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Reply to: RE>>EFI332 boards and WWW Andrew, > There are currently discussions about designing V1.00 of the EFI332 > board. I don't think there are any of the V0.40 boards left. I will > redesign the BDM pcb as a double sided board which will be available > from AP circuits - the same place from which you will be able to > order the EFI332-1.00 boards. Do you have a tentative date when the redesign will happen? I am very interested in getting a board to play around a bit. Excuse the ignorance, but how can I contact AP Circuits? Do they accept credit cards and do they have an email address or fax number? Yue Min From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 6 16:37:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA26888; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 16:35:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from igw.fmc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA26874; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 12:35:47 -0400 Received: by igw.fmc.com id AA21649 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:35:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199509061635.AA21649@igw.fmc.com> Received: by igw.fmc.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 6 Sep 1995 11:35:43 -0500 Date: 6 Sep 1995 09:36:29 -0800 From: "YueMin Wong" Subject: EFI386 software environment To: " EFI" X-Mailer: Mail*Link SMTP-QM 3.0.2 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu REGARDING EFI386 software environment The link: ftp://stereo.eng.ohio-state.edu/pub/jsg/ seems to be broken. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 7 14:12:11 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA21797; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 14:07:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from voga.rmit.EDU.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA21783; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:07:47 -0400 Received: from minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU by voga.rmit.EDU.AU with SMTP id AA07621 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/qva1-oz for ); Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:07:29 +1000 Received: (from s914440@localhost) by minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU (8.6.12/8.6.9/ram3) id AAA12293 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:06:59 +1000 From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Message-Id: <199509071406.AAA12293@minyos.xx.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: o2 sensors..testing To: diy_efi (diy_efi list) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:06:58 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 887 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, I have been scrounging around various efi repairers and fitters here, looking for parts- mainly sensors for our project. I came up with an o2 sensor (3 wire) today from a recent ish ford- bosch p/n 0 258 003 050 (12V) or ford (oz) p/n E73F-9F472-AA. The guy said "umm I think it's OK, yeah I huvnt rote anifig on it, Muss be! Does anyone have a quick/reliable way to test this thing? The heater coil measures around 4.5 ohms and seems to work (heats up: draws ~2A initially, then drops to ~1A). How can I be sure if it still can sense o2 as it should? Also gave me a GM/delco computer p/n 1227808 condition unknown, but no memory card (I assume that is what would live in the 66 pin header socket). I am curious as to the loom pinout of this thing and its potential usefulness, as I can probably turn up a memory card if need be. All comments appreciated! thanks, Brian. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 7 18:22:29 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA23262; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:20:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gw2.att.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA23248; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 14:19:58 -0400 Received: from ihgp1.ih.att.com by ig1.att.att.com id AA22382; Thu, 7 Sep 95 10:46:36 EDT Received: by ihgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.2.1 sol2) id AA22756; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 09:45:44 -0500 From: Bohdan.L.Bodnar@att.com Received: by ihgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.2.1 sol2) id AA22733; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 09:45:41 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 09:45:41 -0500 Message-Id: <9509071445.AA22733@ihgp1.ih.att.com> Original-From: bohdan@ihgp.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar) To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: o2 sensors..testing Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Take a high impedance voltmeter and stick it across the sense lead and the threads of the sensor. Put the sensor underneath a propane torch. You should read 1 volt once the sensor heats up. This DOES NOT test the sensor's transient response characteristics -- the sensor may not be capable of responding quickly to a/f mixture changes. Incidently, if the sensor has a greenish tinge, throw it out -- it's been contaminated by coolant being burned in the cylinders. Regards, Bohdan Bodnar From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 7 19:37:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA26945; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 19:34:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA26918; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 15:32:05 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by VCA.GI.COM (PMDF V5.0-5 #7516) id <01HUZTKP0DTCJP7X36@VCA.GI.COM>; Thu, 07 Sep 1995 12:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <304F4890@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Thu, 07 Sep 1995 12:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 12:31:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Cylinder 1 detector (was: Re: The EFI332 I/O Board) To: "diy_efi (postings)" , "EFI332 (Postings)" Message-id: <304F4890@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 23 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce A. Bowling writes: ~ > What about the cam sensor for sequential EFI? My target is a SBC; have ~ > you come across anything for that purpose that might fit inside or ~ > replace the distributor? ~ >I was going to break off seven of the eight teeth on the reluctor >currently in the Chevy distributor. The distributor turns rather >slowly, and there really is not much out-of-balance condition. >Cost: $0.00 This is a great idea for a direct ignition system (DIS) or "almost distributorless" ignition. Use an existing (modified) distributor for a single cylinder detection (synchronization), and a pickup from the crank (pulley) for the accurate timing. Using an existing distributor is a lot easier than trying to mount a pickup on the cylinder head near the cam (OHC engines). Note: any mechanical advance mechanisms in the distributor should be removed or permanently locked. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 8 02:57:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA02390; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 02:50:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA02361; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 22:50:01 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by VCA.GI.COM (PMDF V5.0-5 #7516) id <01HV08VN0E0WJP892E@VCA.GI.COM>; Thu, 07 Sep 1995 19:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <304FAF3B@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Thu, 07 Sep 1995 19:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 19:50:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: RE: jargon! To: "diy_efi (postings)" , "EFI332 (Postings)" Message-id: <304FAF3B@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 53 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Could you put together a list of all the abbreviations you commonly > use and post it? Here's a few that I can think of at the moment: TDC = Top Dead Center BTC = Bottom Dead Center DIS = DistributorLess Ignition ECU = Electronic Control Unit (?) MCU = MicroController Unit (eg. 68HC11) POR = Power On Reset RAM = Random Access Memory ROM = Read Only Memory PROM = Programmable Read Only Memory EPROM = Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory EEPROM = Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory "E-squared PROM" = same as EEPROM MAF = Mass Air Flow ("MAF meter") MAP = Manifold Absolute Pressure BP = Barometric Pressure LSB = Least Significant Bit (or Byte) MSB = Most Significant Bit (or Byte) BJT = Bipolar Junction Transistor LED = Light Emitting Diode LCD = Liquid Crystal Display MOS = Metal Oxide Semiconductor CMOS = Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor FET = Field Effect Transistor MOSFET = Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor A = Amp V = Volt R = Resistance RPM = Revolutions Per Minute SAE = Society of Automotive Engineers TPS = Throttle Position Sensor OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer OBD = On Board Diagnostics SMD = Surface Mount Device uP = micro Processor PLCC = Plastic Leadless Chip Carrier A/F = Air Fuel Ratio EGT = Exhaust Gas Temperature CAN = Controller Area Network (?) PWM = Pulse Width Modulator ADC = Analog to Digital Converter A/D = Analog to Digital DAC = Digital to Analog Converter SOL = Shit Out of Luck CYA = Cover Your Ass Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 8 03:39:07 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA02697; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 03:33:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA02683; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:33:05 -0400 Received: from rowan.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA00866; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:33:28 -0400 Received: by rowan.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA16303; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:32:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 23:32:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Valentine To: DIY_EFI Subject: RE: jargon! In-Reply-To: <304FAF3B@gismtpgate.gi.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 7 Sep 1995, Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS) wrote: > > > Could you put together a list of all the abbreviations you commonly > > use and post it? > > Here's a few that I can think of at the moment: Here's a few more: IAC = Idle Air Control motor ALDL = Assembly Line Diagnostic Link CTS = Coolant Temp Sensor MPFI = Multi Port Fuel Injection TBI = Throttle Body Injection TPI = Tuned Port Intake MAT = Manifold Air Temp sensor > SOL = Shit Out of Luck > CYA = Cover Your Ass My vote for this area: SNAFU = Situation Normal - All F*ck'd Up --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 8 12:41:31 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA03576; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:39:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from genesis.nred.ma.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA03562; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:39:26 -0400 From: genesis!mvarc!an!adh Received: from mvarc.UUCP by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id IAA25224; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 08:17:46 -0400 Received: from an by mvarc.n-andover.ma.us with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0sr1vV-0002jLC; Fri, 8 Sep 95 07:48 EDT Message-Id: Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 07:48 EDT Apparently-From: mvarc!an!adh To: DIY_EFI Subject: RE: jargon! Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Bob Valentine My vote for this area: SNAFU = Situation Normal - All F*ck'd Up don't forget FUBAR -- F***** Up Beyond All Recognition _______________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics adh@an.bradford.ma.us ---Schroedinger From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 8 16:08:17 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA04730; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:05:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA04716; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:04:58 -0400 Received: from twisto by wotan.compaq.com with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #12) id m0sr5nd-0009tGC; Fri, 8 Sep 95 10:57 CDT Received: from bangate.compaq.com by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #10) id m0sr5nS-000uMrC; Fri, 8 Sep 95 10:56 CDT Received: by bangate.compaq.com; Fri, 8 Sep 95 10:56:50 CDT Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 10:56:44 CDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Cc: From: Subject: Jargon and efi reference Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I've added some of the recent abbreviations to the reference file, and some other things. Here it is for your dining pleasure... --steve ps please send me suggestions/corrections sravet@bangate.compaq.com A list of references on Engine Management Currently maintained by Steve Ravet sravet@bangate.compaq.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Books ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Adler, Ulrich, _Electronic Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda Closed-Loop Control, L-Jetronic: Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH, copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226008-4. (yellow book, 20 numbered pages; this is written on the back cover: "English translation of the German edition dated: September 1985.") Adler, Ulrich, _Mechanical Gasoline Fuel-Injection System with Lambda Closed-Loop Control, K-Jetronic: Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH, copyright 1981, ISBN 1-85-226030-0. (yellow book, 24 numbered pages; this is written on the back cover: "English translation of the 2nd German edition dated: September 1985.") Adler, Ulrich, _Combined Ignition and Fuel-Injection System with Lambda Closed-Loop Control, Motronic: Technical Instruction_, Robert Bosch GmbH, copyright 1985, ISBN 1-85-226009-2. (yellow book, 44 numbered pages; this is written on the back cover: "English translation of the 2nd German edition from September 1985.") Adler et al, "Automotive Electric/Electronic Systems", Robert Bosch GmbH, Stuttgart, Germany, ISBN 0-89883-509-7, 1988. This is the "red" handbook. Covers all forms of automotive systems. Good general reading with excellent coverage of basic functions like starters, alternators, ignition, sparkplugs. Covers some detail of Bosch's fuel injection systems. Available from the SAE on sale for $19 (order B-528). Adler et al, "Automotive Handbook, 3rd Edition", Robert Bentley, Cambridge, MA, ISBN 0-8376-0330-7, 1993. + This is the "blue" handbook which used to be pocket size. Covers all forms of automotive design and systems. Good reference source, but expressed in metric. Has conversion tables. Covers materials well. Some data on emissions (478-489) similar to 2nd Edition. Also has data on some of the representative automobiles from various world companies in back section. Available from the SAE for $29 (order BOSCH3). Price for SAE members is $23. _Bosch Electronic Fuel Injection Systems, Shop Manual_, , Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1986, ISBN 0-87938-237-6. (maintenance manual for Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Datsun, Mercedes, Opel, Porsche, Renault, Saab, Volkswagen, and Volvo, model years 1970 - 1979). DaRosa -- Fundamentals of Energy Processes Very general, with an excellent chapter or two on combustion, and lots of other source of energy discussion. $60 Jeff Hartman,"Fuel injection - Installation, Performance tuning, Modifications" ISBN 0-87938-743-2 Publisher Motorbooks international, PO Box 1, Osceola, WI 54020 1-800-826-6600 (in the US), Reccomended Price $19.95 US. Probably the best value for money book on EFI. The book has snippets of everything - If it had detail on all the subjects it mentioned it would be the definitive reference. The Audience is intended as street rodders mainly, but there are good bits and peices for the DIY_EFI'er - Reccomended reading. Heywood, J.B., "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals", McGraw-Hill, USA, ISBN 0-07-028637-x, 1988. College text on IC engine design and theory. General reference on engine topics. Also contains many references to other works. Available from the SAE for $69 (order B-526). Lenz, D.H.P., "Mixture Formation in Spark-Ignition Engines", SAE, Warrendale, PA, ISBN 1-56091-188-3, 1992. Excellent text on carbureation, combustion and fuel infection concepts. Some important data on emissions (70-74, 249-251) with description of trends over years. This book also published by Springer-Verlag/Wien, NY, who translated it from German (Lenz, Gemischbildung bei Ottomotoren) in 1990. Available from SAE on sale for $55 (order R-113). Price for SAE members is $45. I actually bought a copy for $39 at the SAE Congress last month. Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection Troubleshooting Guide: Import Vehicles_, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona, 1989, ISBN 1-55561-031-5. (chapter contents include Bosch D, K, KE, L, LH, and Digifant (Japanese and European); Daihatsu; Honda PGM-FI; Isuzu I-TEC; Lucas-Bosch; Mazda RE-EGI; Mitsubishi ECI and MPFI; Nissan TBI; Subaru SPFI; this book has the EFI system wiring diagrams of many import cars.) Mitchell International, Inc., _Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection Troubleshooting Guide: Domestic Vehicles, Fisher Books, Tucson, Arizona, 1991, ISBN 1-55561-032-3. (chapter contents include AMC/Jeep; AMC; AMC/RENIX; AMC/RENIX II; Bosch; Chrysler; Eagle; Ford; GM; this book has the EFI system wiring diagrams of many domestic cars.) Norbye, Jan P., _Automotive Fuel Injection Systems, A Technical Guide_, Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1981, ISBN 0-87938-139-6. (primarily a history and description of fuel injection systems, includes chapters on Bosch Mechanical Systems for Mercedes-Benz Cars, Kugelfischer Fuel Injection, Rochester Fuel Injection, The Bendix Electrojector, Cadillac and the Bendix Analog and Digital Fuel-Injection Systems, Bosch L- and K- Jetronic, Motronic, Mono-Jetronic, Lucas Digital Fuel Injection, Chrysler's Single-Point Injection; Ford's Electronic Engine Control System, Zenith Fuel-Management Systems, Fiat/Marelli Experimental System, Bosch / Pierburg Electronic Carburetor, Aftermarket Fuel Injection) Probst, C.O., "Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management", Robert Bentley, Cambridge, MA, ISBN 0-8376-0300-5, 1989. Covers most of the Bosch systems from D-Jetronic through Motronic. Covers variety of vehicles. Has good section in begining on combustion and emissions information, but a better description is in other BOSCH texts and sources. Available from the SAE on sale for $19 (order B-557). Probst, C.O., "How to Understand, Service and Modify Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control", Robert Bentley, Cambridge, MA, ISBN 0-8376-0301-3, 1993. Covers basic engine control theory and Ford systems to 1988. Excellent book on topic. Similar to author's other work on Bosch systems. Available from SAE for $30 (order B-584). Ribbens, William B., Mansour, Norman P., et al, _Understanding Automotive Electronics_, third edition, Howard W. Sams & Company, Indianapolis, Indiana, 1988, ISBN 0-672-27064-6. (Contents includes Automotive Fundamentals, The Systems Approach to Control and Instrumentation, Electronics Fundamentals, Microcomputer Instrumentation and Control, Sensors and Actuators, The Basics of Electronic Engine Control, Digital Engine Control System, Vehicle Motion Control, Automotive Instrumentation, Diagnostics, Future Automotive Electronics Systems) Watson, B., "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection", Motorbooks International, Osceola, WI, ISBN 0-87938-570-7, 1992. Covers most of the Bosch systems from D-Jetronic through LH-Jetronic. Mainly aimed at VW. Has good section in begining on testing electronic components. Minimal amount of emissions information - better description is in other BOSCH texts and sources. Cost $19.95 in 1994. Watson, Ben, _How to Tune and Modify Ford Fuel Injection_, Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1992, ISBN 0-87938-621-5. ("For Fuel-Injected Ford Cars and Trucks with EEC III and EEC IV Engine Maintenance Systems," chapters include History of Fuel Injection, Brief Overview of Electronics, Tools, Tuning the Fuel-injected Engine, Automotive Emissions, EEC III, EEC IV Components and Operation, EEC IV Onboard Diagnostics, Troubleshooting by Symptom, Performance Modifications, Legalities of Engine Modification; the performance chapter is weak, only 10 pages). Watson, Ben, _How to Repair and Modify Chevrolet Fuel Injection, Motorbooks International, Osceola, Wisconsin, 1991, ISBN 0-87938-502-2. Electronic controls and sensors: proceedings of the SAE International Congress and Exposition (1992: Detroit, MI). ISBN 1-56091-215-4. This book is 120 pages long. Unfortunately, I do not have it (yet) as it is in an ATT library in NJ whereas I'm in IL! If you choose to purchase it, the ISBN and title should be sufficient for a bookstore to track it down. I recall this book has some articles on nifty research done in universities in Europe on adaptive controls and some stuff on a truly exotic oxygen sensor which allows more than bang-bang control of the a/f mixture. Laser/Talon Tech Info Manual Call 1-800-626-1523 and ask for the 1990 Laser/Talon Tech Info Manual part number 81-699-9039. Shipping will probably be more than the cost of this ~200 page book. They take plastic. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Papers ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SAE (412)776-4970 SAE (412)776-0790 FAX 750346 -- HEI-A New Ignition System Through New Technology It covers the charge time question as well at their solution. If you've not yet read the paper, it describes some really clever innovations: adjustable dwell depending on how near saturation, a 5.5 amp limit in the driver so you could have a low resistance for fast saturation times at high speeds, but that wouldn't fry at low speeds. 790742 -- Readable paper on the Ford CFI 5.0L 1980 cars. It covers most of the 'twiddle factors' required to get the vehicle running properly. 800164 -- Covers GM TBI system. Easy reading. 810449 -- Mathematical Model of a Throttle Body Fuel Injection System Discusses effect of battery voltage on injectors and fuel pump pressure 810494 -- 810495 -- 800468 -- _Hot Wire Air Mass Meter - A New Air Flow Meter for Gasoline Fuel Injection Systems_,Sauer, Rudolf, 1980, ISSN 0148-7191. (The author is from Bosch. This paper appears to be one of the first on MAF meters - the classical Bosch design with the thin platinum wire in the direct air flow. It has many equations explaining its operation.) 830615 -- _Hot Wire Air Flow Meter for Engine Control System_, Nishimura, Yutaka; Ohyama, Yoshishige; Sasayama, Takao; et al., 1983, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Hitachi Ltd. This paper describes the Hitachi type MAF, which measures air flow in a bypass air passage. I believe that this type of MAF is being used on Ford cars, starting with the Mustang GT in 1987.) 840137 -- _Bosch Mass Air Flow Meter: Status and Further Aspects_, Sumai, Jaihind, and Sauer, Rudolf, 1984. (The authors are from Bosch. This paper discusses flow passages, air flow around the thermal element, use of wire grid in the air flow stream, mechanical forces on the sensor element, dirt build up on the thermal sensor element, response rate, velocity profiles, and influence of altitude on intake manifold pulsations. Actual test data is provided.) 880561 -- Frequency Domain Characterization of Mass Flow Sensors, by W. C. Follmer, 1988. 890298 -- _Switching Controlled Thermal Mass Air Flow Sensor_, Tanimoto, Kohji; Bessho, Mikio; Inada, Masanori; 1989, ISSN 0148-7191. (Reprinted from SP-771 - _Sensors and Actuators: 1989_. Authors are from Mitsubishi Electric. This paper discusses a typical MAF meter using a switching transistor to supply the voltage to the heated wire. This reduces power consumption. The output of the meter is a digital signal, with the pulse width related to the flow rate. One advantage of this type of meter is that the EFI computer does not need an analog to digital converter to acquire the data - it can use a digital counter.) 890301 -- _A Hot Wire Air Flow Meter for Intake Air Flow Measurement_,Nishimura, Yutaka; Ohyama, Yoshishige; et al., 1989, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Hitachi, Ltd. This paper "outlines the development status of the Hitachi hot wire air flow meter." Also covered are "approaches to improve response time" and "to avoid deterioration in the measurement accuracy caused by dirt deposits on the hot wire probe.") 890459 -- _Combined Boost Pressure and Knock Control System for S.I. Engines Including 3-D Maps for Control Parameters_, Rohde, Siegfried, and Philipp, Matthias, 1989, ISSN 0148-7191. (Reprinted from SP-780, _Power Boost: Light, Medium, and Heavy Duty Engines_. Authors are from Bosch. This paper discusses the Motronic EFI system with knock sensor and turbo boost pressure control; good info on control methods.) 900258 -- _Hot Wire Air Flow Meter for Engine Control Systems_, Takahashi, Ken; Tsuruoka, Shigeo; Nishimura, Yutaka; et al., 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Hitachi Ltd. This paper discusses a new type of wire probe, resulting in improved response time.) 900259 -- _Advanced Design for Bypass Type of Hot-Wire Air Flow Meter_, Arai, Nobukatsu; Sekine, Yoshihito; et al., 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (Reprinted from SP-805 - _Sensors and Actuators 1990_. Authors are from Hitachi. This paper discusses a bypass type MAF meter integrated into a throttle body.) 900488 -- _Combustion Knock Sensing: Sensor Selection and Application Issues_, Dues, Steven M.; Adams, Joseph M., Shinkle, George A., 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from Delco Remy Div., General Motors Corp. This paper discusses basic knock phenomena, sensor types, application issues, process flowchart, location selection, sensor selection criteria, sensor comparisons, popular misconceptions.) 900616 -- Mean Value Modelling of Spark Ignition Engines, by Hendricks and Sorenson, 1990. 900780 -- _On-Chip Realtime Operating System for the Engine Control System_, Matsubara, Shoji; Kuwahara, Takashi; Gerhard, F. Bruce; 1990, ISSN 0148-7191. (The authors are from NEC Electronics. Discusses the "NEC uPD78602 16-Bit Single-Chip Microcomputer that incorporates a real-time operating system as firmware (alias Realtime Task Manager: RTM) as an example.") 910258 -- Discusses modeling intake manifold and fuel film dynamics. 910501 -- Sasayama, et al. Describes alternative methods of using O2 sensors 920289 Modeling, filtering, and closed loop control? 930352 -- Wang, et.al. Describes alternative methods of using O2 sensors 930856 -- Operating characteristics of Zirconia sensors. 940373 "Adaptive Air-Fuel Ratio Control of a Spark-Ignition Engine" 940379 -- Describes a new pressure sensor that they use for misfire detection, knock control, ignition control, etc. I have a feeling that you may be seeing these in pass. cars in the not too distant future. Still some signal processing circuitry required but the price has to be better than a PCB or Kistler unit. 950531 -- Brialsford, et al. Describes alternative methods of using O2 sensors FISITA -- Adaptive Transient Air-Fuel Ratio Control to Minimize Gasoline Engine Emissions, by Beaumont, Noble, and Scarisbrick, 1992. HS3000 -- Complete specification of OBD-II -- Describes an experiment performed by the EPA wherein they discover that O2 sensors in fact do not sense O2 until they reach 800 degrees C. Until that point they measure H and CO. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Parts ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ACH-04-08 Amp This is a 3-axis accelerometer (y-axis, z-axis, and rotational acceleration around z-axis) that is fully programmable. You can read only 1 axis at a time in either digital or analog format. y-axis sensitivity is 1.5 mV/g, z-axis is 12 mV/g, and rotational is 0.3 mV/rad/s^2. I don't have time to quote the entire data sheet but I think is has programmable gain (ie. ranges). I was wrong about the price: it is $30 (maybe I was thinking $10 per axis?). Oh yeah, this data sheet and price is preliminary. HIP9010 Harris Semiconductor An integrated knock sensor signal processor. This thing (HIP9010) is controlled by a microprocessor bus port, and does programmable gain, filtering, windowing and integration. It produces an analog output voltage for knock amplitude. MC3484-S4 Fuel injector driver. They cost about $4.50 each from Hamilton-Avnet, but you have to buy at least 40 or 50 at a time. LM1964 An amplifier designed especially for amplifying O2 sensor signals. It's in National's special purpose devices book (Linear 3). LM9044 Lambda Sensor Interface Amplifier Nat'l C LM1949 Injector Drive Controller SAMTEC makes QFP to PGC Adapter boards for a variety of QFP Packages. Chip Specific Adapters "SPEC" for a variety of Motorola and Intel Chips, SAMTEC phn 800 726-8329. CSP3000 -- Signal processor for automotive applications The Car Signal Processor (CSP3000) is a signal processor designed for use in automotive applications. 24 analog inputs and 8 PWM outputs represent the interfaces with the analog world. The digital, 12 bits wide I/O port and two serial bus interfaces permit the exchange of digital data within the application or between processors. FEATURES OF THE CSP: - 12 Bit RISC processor (FP) - 256 words of internal RAM (12 bit) - 2048 works of internal ROM (20 bit) - internal clock generator - 12 Bidirectional IO lines - 2 serial ports - up to 24 analog inputs - 8 PWM outputs - up to 24 digital inputs - all digital inputs with hysteresis - 2 independant RESET pins for FP and PWM system - PLCC 68 package - EMU version available in 132 pin LLCC package MC68332 -- CPU32 modular controller The MC68332 is one of a Motrola's family of modular architecture controller chips. The '332 contains the following modules: * CPU32, a 32bit M68000 style processor with all 68020 functionality except the bitfield operations. * TPU, a 16 bit RISC time processing unit that has 16 I/O pins and can independently perform all sorts of time functions such as PWM, period measurement, position synchronized pulse generation, missing pulse detection, etc (great for engine management). * QSM, a serial module that contains one standard asynchronous serial port and one synchronous port. * SIM, a system integration module that does chip selects, etc. * 2K of onboard static ram. 67F687 The 67F687 is a high performance MSICs ( Mixed Signal Integrated Circuit ) designed to work with a microprocessor in an engine management system. Using two sensor inputs (crank and cam), the 67F687 tracks engine position through one or two complete revolutions with a resolution of 0.25 degrees. Designed to be flexible, the 67F687 will accept a variety of sensor types and pulse patterns. It generates ignition and injection output pulses based on position and time parameters supplied by the host microprocessor, relieving it of many of the real time interrupt routines associated with these tasks. These outputs can directly drive power devices to actuate automotive ignition coils and fuel injectors. A sense input from each device allows individual diagnostics, short circuit protection and ignition coil current limiting. A timer, which measures coil charge time at the ignition sense inputs, enhances closed loop dwell control. Communication with a host microprocessor is through a parallel data and address bus. A general purpose parallel I/O port offers level sensitive input and output capability, in addition to edge detect inputs and PWM outputs. Silicon Systems Automotive Products 14351 Myford Road Tustin, CA 92680 USA Attn: Tony Anderson Electro Corp. 1845 - 57th Street Sarasota, FL 34243 voice: 813-355-8411 fax: 813-355-3120 A complete line of sensors. MC3334 Ignition controller chip. It's an 8-pin DIP that uses a sensing capacitor to determine if the coil was completely charged for the last spark. It adjusts the dwell for the next spark accordingly. CS-452 and CS-453 Injector drivers In the Cherry Semiconductor Automotive IC Data Book (1992), they list an "injector solenoid driver." The part number is CS-452 (2.4A peak current), and the CS-453 (4.4 A peak current). These parts appear to be equivalents to the Motorola MC3484S2-2 and MC3484S4-2, respectively. The pinout and package are the same. Comparison of the specs shows identical performance. I have no idea what these cost, or if they are still available. HIP 7030A0 and HIP7020 OBD-II/J1850 drivers Harris has a complete and inexpensive line of OBD_II SAE J1850 comm protocol IC's. The protocols are too complex for a mail post (unless I had a week to write...) but the SAE publication HS-3000 is the complete shebang...One of the harris IC's is the HIP7030A0... It is a 68HC05 cpu with SENDEC, crc generation etc... It only requires code and the HIP7020 Bus tranceiver chip. CA3228 Harris Semiconductor -- A complete DIY cruise control less switches and servo. Requires a bare minimum of external components. MGP20N40CL The Motorola MGP20N40CL is a nice IGBT for ignition coil drive. It has internal clamping diodes for voltage protection (400V) and can handle 20 amps. In practice, with peak coil currents of 10A, it only needs a small heat sink. You can drive it directly from a 5V CMOS output. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Software ----------------------------------------------------------------------- PADS -- Circuit layout software. Has all the symbols, 68000, 8031, 80x86, TTL, CMOS, etc. It seems easy to add to this as well. Outputs Gerber, Postscript, etc. Got the copy I have off a CDROM. Walnut Creek Simtel 10/93 collection. Anyway, try ftp.uu.net, wuarchive.wustl.edu, ftp.funet.fi etc. The directory at ftp.uu.net should be /system/msdos/simtel/cad. The files are padslib.zip, padslog.zip, padspcb.zip. Dunno what the versions are. RTEMS -- Real time OS You can ftp it from lancelot.gcs.redstone.army.mil in /pub/rtems. Look for version 3.1.03. GCC -- DOS hosted cross compiler for 68000 series CPUs There are now binaries (and the changed source files for anyone interested) available via anon. ftp. The binaries are gcc 2.6.0 for djgpp (msdos) host and 68000 family embedded target. The ftp address is: ftp.lysator.liu.se in directory /pub/msdos/gnu/gcc-dos-m68k ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Definitions ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ADC = Analog to Digital Converter A/D = Analog to Digital ALDL -- Assembly Line Diagnostic Link. The connector under the dash on GM cars. It can be used to dump diagnostic information from the ECM, but requires special equipment to use. BP = Barometric Pressure BTC = Bottom Dead Center CAN = Controller Area Network. A proposed network protocol for automotive use outside the US. The US proposal is SAE standard J1850, aka OBD CTS -- Coolant Temp Sensor CYA = Cover Your Ass DAC = Digital to Analog Converter A/F = Air Fuel Ratio DIS = DistributorLess Ignition EGT = Exhaust Gas Temperature ECM -- Engine Control Module? It's the engine management computer. ECU = Electronic Control Unit (?) Same as ECM IAC -- Idle Air Control motor. A stepper motor controlled by the ECM. It determines how much air gets through to the engine when the throttle is at idle. The computer controls it to maintain a constant idle. MAF -- Mass Air Flow. An FI technique where the mass of air flowing into the intake is directly measured via a hot wire , rotating vane, or hinged flap. The computer reads this value and injects the proper amount of fuel. MAP -- Manifold Air Pressure. The air pressure in the intake. MAT = Manifold Air Temp sensor MCU = MicroController Unit (eg. 68HC11) MPFI -- Multi Port Fuel Injection. One (or more) injectors per cylinder. OBD = On Board Diagnostics. Mandated in the US, this forces auto manufacturers to use common protocols and connectors for automotive diagnostics. OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer. PLCC = Plastic Leadless Chip Carrier PWM = Pulse Width Modulator SAE = Society of Automotive Engineers SBC -- Single Board Computer or Small Block Chevy SD -- Speed density. An FI technique where the amount of air entering the engine is calculated from engine RPM, MAP, and a pre-calculated volumetric efficiency for the engine. SNAFU = Situation Normal - All F*ck'd Up SOL = Shit Out of Luck TBI = Throttle Body Injection. One or more injectors located at the throttle body. Basically a more efficient carb. TPI = Tuned Port Intake TDC = Top Dead Center. Piston at the top of the cylinder TPS = Throttle Position Sensor. Tells the ECM how "open" the throttle is. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Sep 10 00:57:44 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA15002; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 00:54:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA14988; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 20:53:58 -0400 Received: (from cb5222@localhost) by eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA02980 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 19:55:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199509100055.TAA02980@eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu> Subject: Why the traditional # of teeth To: diy_efi Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 19:55:30 -0500 (CDT) From: (Chris Burian) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 88 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Why do the common wheels have either 36 or 60 teeth? Why not 48 or 64? Thanks, Chris From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 11 06:29:57 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA17109; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 06:26:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA17095; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 02:26:14 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma009766; Mon Sep 11 14:45:41 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma002957; Mon Sep 11 16:16:47 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id QAA07498 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 16:16:43 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199509110616.QAA07498@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: [Aus] trying to find LM1964V To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 16:16:40 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 308 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi there, Can anyone tell me where I can buy one or two LM1964 Oxygen sensor amplifiers in Australia (or even by credit card from the US). The local distributor (HarTec) wants a minimum order of 100 @$aus 7.19 +tax (@21%), so not much change out of $1k for a lousy op amp. Cheers, Craig. pugsley@trl.oz.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 11 14:56:27 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA18387; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 14:48:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devnull by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA18373; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 10:48:31 -0400 Received: from trinity by devnull (8.6.8/8.6.6) id JAA22332; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 09:48:15 -0500 Received: by trinity (4.1/TSS2.1) id AA11076; Mon, 11 Sep 95 09:48:19 CDT From: joe@mpd.tandem.com (Joe Senner) Message-Id: <9509111448.AA11076@trinity> Subject: Re: [Aus] trying to find LM1964V To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 09:48:19 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199509110616.QAA07498@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> from "Craig Pugsley" at Sep 11, 95 04:16:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 572 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ]Can anyone tell me where I can buy one or two LM1964 Oxygen sensor ]amplifiers in Australia (or even by credit card from the US). The local ]distributor (HarTec) wants a minimum order of 100 @$aus 7.19 +tax ](@21%), so not much change out of $1k for a lousy op amp. I've not been able to find them here locally (Austin Texas) but I have a local distributor researching the issue for me. I'll post if I get any news. what are the specs behind this chip? what about it makes it O2 sensor specific as opposed to any typical op-amp? -- Joe Senner Bookawitz K Whiner MC#3 From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 11 17:14:18 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA19378; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 17:07:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bastion_int.bedison.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA19364; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:07:24 -0400 Received: from mail1.bedison.com ([156.73.106.10]) by bastion_int.bedison.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA13556 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:04:33 -0400 Received: from ccMail by mail1.bedison.com (IMA Internet Exchange v1.04) id 0546d2d0; Mon, 11 Sep 95 13:09:01 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 13:05:08 -0400 Message-ID: <0546d2d0@mail1.bedison.com> From: George_McLaughlin@bedison.com (George McLaughlin) Subject: Reprogramming Stock ECM PROM Unit To: DIY_EFI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: cc:Mail note part Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I am interested in modifying the stock ECM PROM chip in my 1990 Lotus Esprit SE and am looking for some help. I would be greatly appreciative therefore if anyone with knowledge in this particular area could provide some pointers or direct me to some references (books, magazines, internet, etc.). I am interested in all aspects of this development from hardware, software, and engineering knowledge needed to reprogram the stock tables. Thanks in advance. George F. McLaughlin III george_mclaughlin@bedison.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 12 00:40:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA20997; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 00:36:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA20983; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:36:03 -0400 Received: from rowan.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA22763; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:36:41 -0400 Received: by rowan.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA00512; Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:36:05 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 20:36:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Valentine To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board In-Reply-To: <950802023938_46053851@aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > To all those interested in my PC-based EFI controller schematic, software and > supporting techie info. I'm planning to put together a zipfile with > everything needed to get it up and running with minimal trouble. I will > either place it at an FTP site or uuencode it and send it to people on > request. In any case, I will be away until 8/14 so be patient, I will make > it availble when I return. Thanks for all the interest. So what ever happened to this? I don't think I missed any mail from DIY-EFI. 8^> --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 12 18:23:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA01491; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:09:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA01476; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 14:09:37 -0400 From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Received: from pandora ([13.250.20.7]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14823(2)>; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 11:09:15 PDT Received: from x-wb-ngm-mime.cinops.xerox.com by pandora (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05201; Tue, 12 Sep 95 14:23:22 EDT X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 12-Sep-1995 13:01:13 -0600; at X-SO-AREA-HUB.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 12-Sep-1995 14:04:22 -0400; at X-WB-NGM-MIME.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 12-Sep-1995 13:22:58 -0600; at X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 10:08:17 PDT To: DIY_EFI Subject: Chrysler systems? Anyone familiar? Message-Id: <"<3FA155308175657C>3FA155308175657C@X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX"@-SMF-> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Is anyone familiar with Chrysler fuel injection setups? I'm interested in using a multipoint setup on my TBI car (converting). I'm probably going to go with a programmable setup . . . . Questions: Any recommendations on manufacturers of programmable units? I'm currrently looking at Simple Digital Systems, out of Canada. Has anyone used SDS (Simple Digital Systems) products? I've got all sorts of brochures from them, and they seem reasonably priced. How much can I expect to gain in efficiency/hp? (Stock 2.5TBI puts out 100 hp and 135 ft. lbs of torque . . if I'm only going to gain 5 hp . . . it's not worth the effort . . . but if we get into the 20-30 range . . . ) Thanks in advance for any and all input!!! Later! Brad Miller From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 12 21:23:45 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA02308; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:15:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA02294; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:15:27 -0400 Received: from happyformula.meche.rpi.edu (happyformula.meche.rpi.edu [128.113.110.70]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id RAA24669 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:15:19 -0400 Received: (lansie@localhost) by happyformula.meche.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) id RAA19962 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:15:19 -0400 From: "Edward J. Lansinger" Message-Id: <9509121715.ZM15352@happyformula.meche.rpi.edu> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:15:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com "Chrysler systems? Anyone familiar?" (Sep 12, 10:08am) References: <"<3FA155308175657C> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Chrysler systems? Anyone familiar? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I am familiar with the Chrysler multi-point system used on the '84-'87 turbos. If you do no modifications to improve airflow through your engine, then your HP gains will be modest at best. The OEM computer will already be commanding ideal or close-to-ideal air/fuel ratios at wide-open- throttle. I'd have a hard time believing you could squeeze even an additional 5%. For wide-open throttle stuff, unless there is a big problem with fuel distribution (which I doubt), just going to a multi-point system won't make much difference. You could tune individual cylinders, but you're still only looking at a percent or two per cylinder. With no modifications directed at improving airflow, I'd guess your best bet would be to concentrate on spark delivery for HP increases. The SPI system is (I'm sure) tuned for 87 octane gas, and conservatively at that. I don't believe that system tries to estimate octane rating. So, if you're confident of the condition of the engine internally and can guarantee you'll use your favorite high-octane flavor of fuel, you could bump the WOT spark advance curve. I'd guess you are looking at an easy 5-10% gain. If you do improve airflow, or change fuels, or just want to have fun, then it makes perfect sense to modify the injection system. - Ed Lansinger From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 12 21:32:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA02373; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:27:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA02359; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:27:06 -0400 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA25691; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:26:56 -0400 Date: 12 Sep 95 16:59:27 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Reprogramming Stock ECM PROM Unit Message-ID: <950912205927_100341.377_EHQ105-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu George_McLaughlin@bedison.com (George McLaughlin) wrote: > Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I am interested in > modifying the stock ECM PROM chip in my 1990 Lotus Esprit SE and > am looking for some help. > I would be greatly appreciative therefore if anyone with > knowledge in this particular area could provide some pointers or > direct me to some references (books, magazines, internet, etc.). > I am interested in all aspects of this development from > hardware, software, and engineering knowledge needed to > reprogram the stock tables. Get the Bosch red and blue handbooks. Read as much as your brain can stand ; You then have the basics in place. Then digest all the archives of DIY EFI. Assuming you've got the original factory manuals for the car, then read the one on the ECM cover to cover a few times and try and understand what inputs and outputs your system has together with how the control is achieved. If the system is similar to my Elan, and I believe it is, then boost level is controlled by modulating the manifold pressure with a solenoid valve to restrict power. The engine has a fuel cutout if the preset maximum boost level is exceeded. The usual way to increase midrange power is to remove or reduce the effect of the modulation valve by fitting a bleeder valve (cheap and nasty) or by changing the wastegate actuator, increasing the fuelling, and reprogramming the boost tables (the proper way). The Esprit post 86 or so and the Elan use a Delco sourced ECM. I've bought a spare ECM and pulled the PROM chip on it. It contains I think both the program code and the tables. There is the possibility though that the main processor chip has on board memory which is not easily accesible. I've run my code on a simulator and am in the very early stages of seeing what exactly goes on in there. I have a different objective to you though in that i'm trying to extract the ALDL information. To sum up, DIY prom mods are not easy, and realistically it will take maybe a couple of years for anything like an understanding of what is going on in there to be achieved. If you want to learn go ahead, if not buy a preprogrammed chip from someone with an unblemished reputation (very difficult). Martin Evans From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 12 21:34:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA02393; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:29:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA02379; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:29:50 -0400 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA26050; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 17:29:44 -0400 Date: 12 Sep 95 16:59:31 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Delco ECM uP type Message-ID: <950912205931_100341.377_EHQ105-2@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone out there know what the basis of the uP used in my Delco sourced ECM is? The service number is: 161322411.6D MAN FED 16161499 AXMZ The prom is a 27128 type mounted on a blue/brown header plugged into the pcb. On the pcb are a number of 52 pin plcc packaged ic's markings as follows 2 chips marked 519K 9115 1049 16079435 1 chip marked DELCO 16126532 161 9049 JAPAN A 035 1 chip marked 185 16126997 KQEVZ9028D The chip is probably not a 68HC11 as it seems to write to the TMSK2 register twice in the first few lines of code and also tries to read the CFORC register which is supposed to be write only. I'm begining to come to the conclusion that the uP is either a special or maybe a 6801/6805. The code 27C107 P5 is etched on the topside of the board with 27107 P8 in the silk screening. Anyone got any ideas? Martin Evans From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 12 22:58:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA04760; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 22:52:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kla.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA04746; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:52:08 -0400 Received: from newkla.kla.com by kla.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12149; Tue, 12 Sep 95 15:53:42 PDT Received: from sled.rr.rapid.kla by newkla.kla.com (4.0/SMI-4.0) id AA01762; Tue, 12 Sep 95 15:51:14 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 15:51:14 PDT From: steveb@newkla.kla.com (Steven Buchholz) Message-Id: <9509122251.AA01762@newkla.kla.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Reprogramming Stock ECM PROM Unit Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, the response to the post on the Lotus Esprit was so informational, I thought I'd throw my case out to the group. First an introduction ... My name is Steve Buchholz, and I am an electrical and systems engineer working for a company called KLA Instruments in San Jose, CA (USA). I have been lurking on the DIY-EFI list for a little while, and I found out about the list thanks to Joe Senner. I own 3 vehicles that employ elec- tronic controls, one BMW motorcycle and two Audi cars. The motorcycle uses the Bosch Motronic system, w/o OXS, and one of the Audis uses a mod- ified Bosch K-jetronic ('83 Quattro Turbo Coupe), while the other a more standard KE-jetronic ('88 5000 Turbo Quattro). I have some experience with troubleshooting the automotive systems, although I have not attempted to reverse engineer any of the three. I hope that over time I can be a worthy contributor to the list, and if anyone does have any Audi-specific (or probably VW as well) troubleshooting questions I may be able to offer some assistance. I have the small format Bosch Automotive Handbook with me at almost all times, and I also have copies of the Bosch K-jetronic and KE-jetronic pamphlet/books. I'm a little less informed on the Motronic. My question ... has any of the members of the DIY-EFI list done any rever- se engineering of the systems that are used in the Audi turbocharged cars? If so, have you found any useful references for doing so, and how difficult a task was it? Are there any sources other than the dealer for acquiring replacement ECUs for troubleshooting? Any information will be gratly appreciated. Thanks! Steven L. Buchholz s_buchho@kla.com San Jose, CA (USA) From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 12 23:14:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA04894; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 23:08:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA04880; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 19:08:49 -0400 Received: by ns1.eds.com (hello) id TAA18510; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 19:08:44 -0400 Received: by nnsa.eds.com (hello) id TAA18805; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 19:08:44 -0400 Received: from koiasw15.delcoelect.com by kocrsv01.delcoelect.com with SMTP id AA17744 (5.65c/IDA-1.5/CORE for ); Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:08:43 -0500 Received: by koiasw15.delcoelect.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00850; Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:08:42 -0500 From: c1ilep@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Lawrence E. Piekarski) Message-Id: <9509122308.AA00850@koiasw15.delcoelect.com> Subject: Re: Reprogramming Stock ECM PROM Unit To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:08:42 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <950912205927_100341.377_EHQ105-1@CompuServe.COM> from "Martin Evans" at Sep 12, 95 04:59:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >George_McLaughlin@bedison.com (George McLaughlin) wrote: > >> Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I am interested in >> modifying the stock ECM PROM chip in my 1990 Lotus Esprit SE and >> am looking for some help. > >To sum up, DIY prom mods are not easy, and realistically >it will take maybe a couple of years for anything like >an understanding of what is going on in there to be >achieved. If you want to learn go ahead, if not buy a >preprogrammed chip from someone with an unblemished >reputation (very difficult). > >Martin Evans BINGO! I transferred a while back from the Service Department here at Delco. I wrote the remanufacturing tests used to verify that the remanufactured "boxes" met or exceeded OEM quality standards. Delco remanufactures most of what we build, so I have seen a wide cross- section of products. My main focus was with powertrain, and I was responsible for Saturn, the Northstar, Truck & Bus, some Daewoo, some Opel, Lotus, and a few highend controllers modeled after the Northstar. For example, I spent nearly a year working on the Northstar. Now, I am not electronics whiz sitting in my garage with a scope and a prom burner, I had multiple computers, a 8000+ page listing, a logic analyzer, the 2700+ page specification, stacks of propriety "standards" documents. Plus I was good friends with the lead software engineer, and knew the rest of the team, plus I knew (and bugged the s**t or of) the man how wrote the OEM test. And, all I had to do was port the test from one tester to another, and enhance the test. It still took me nine months. I simply cannot imagine making DIY mods at home. Naturally, I can't give out any proprietary information, my wife likes the fact that I am employed. :-) I did toy with the idea of tweaking my '93 SW2. I got the source code and calibration for my car and looked through it for a while, but honestly didn't see anything I wanted to change. I stayed away from the spark and fuel tables, though. As far as I am concerned, that is a black art. -- (* Larry Piekarski, Lead Software Engineer *) (* Luxury Car HVAC Display Heads *) (* c1ilep@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com *) (* Delco Electronics, Kokomo, IN *) From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 06:55:59 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA07752; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 06:45:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cougar.multiline.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA07738; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 02:45:00 -0400 Received: from at.multiline.com.au (at.multiline.com.au [203.5.127.35]) by cougar.multiline.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA29058 for ; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:37:39 +0800 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:37:39 +0800 Message-Id: <199509130637.OAA29058@cougar.multiline.com.au> X-Sender: at@multiline.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: at@multiline.com.au (Adam Tate) Subject: Nitrous with EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Has anyone had experience with running nitrous on a fuel injected motor? I have a Holden Commodore which runs the Buick 3.8 litre V6. I am planning to run an adjustable (up to 100hp) kit from OZRACE products (OZNOS). It injects nitrous (and I assume fuel) through a spacer plate inbetween the trottle body and the manifold. Any comments would be most appreciated. Adam Tate. [at@multiline.com.au] http://www.multiline.com.au/~atate/index.html From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 13:25:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA08409; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:22:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA08385; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:22:23 -0400 From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Received: from pandora ([13.250.20.7]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14404(2)>; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 06:22:10 PDT Received: from by pandora (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB06901; Wed, 13 Sep 95 09:36:19 EDT X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 13-Sep-1995 08:15:10 -0600; at X-SO-AREA-HUB.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 13-Sep-1995 9:17:44 -0400; at X-WB-NGM-MIME.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 13-Sep-1995 08:36:51 -0600; at X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 05:22:15 PDT To: DIY_EFI Subject: Chrysler TBI vs. MPI Message-Id: <"<3BFF55308175657C>3BFF55308175657C@X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX"@-SMF-> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the info - I've talked with some of the Chrysler engineering guru's and they said the stock TBI manifold (2.2/2.5) sucks. That's why Chrysler never released another computer, tweaking the spark/fuel curves only resulted in a 3-5 hp difference, hardly worth the effort. Now, when they decided to try the MPI (multipoint injection - basically leaving off the turbo), they seen a 10++ hp difference. The stock TBI manifold is so shallow and constricted that it's choking the air way down. Even the stock 2.2 carb manifolds were really bad on flow rates, as some cylinders would run lean and everything was turbulent in the runners. So - here's what I'm looking at, using a Turbo II intake manifold (2 peice design with MPI) and just leaving off the turbo (for now). That will give me a tuned intake system. To that I'll add a programmable EFI setup -- probably the one from SDS (Simple Digital Systems). I'm also considering going to the regular "carb/pre-swirl" head. The "swirl/lean-burn" head doesn't flow as well as just the older stock heads. If I could get the car to 130 hp before going to a turbo or blower, I'd be pleased. If anyone has any suggestions or comments, please let me know!! Thanks! From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 15:11:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA08925; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 15:08:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.hud.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA08911; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:08:31 -0400 Received: from ariel.hud.ac.uk by mail.hud.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <19740-0@mail.hud.ac.uk>; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:08:05 +0100 Received: by ariel.hud.ac.uk with Microsoft Mail id <3056F3EC@ariel.hud.ac.uk>; Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:08:28 bst From: Paul Shackleton To: diy-EFI Subject: List of Programmable EFIs Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:07:00 bst Message-ID: <3056F3EC@ariel.hud.ac.uk> Encoding: 11 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have a reasonably definitive list of programmable EFIs on the market. Preferably with a vendor name, price and brief description, and where in the world the vendor is based. I am in the UK so am more interested in possibilities over here but would not discount anything based on location. Thanks in advance for anything useful Paul Shackleton University of Huddersfield. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 17:24:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA18146; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:18:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA18132; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:18:51 -0400 Received: from slip3-20.acs.ohio-state.edu by postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (8.6.9/5.901231) id NAA19994; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:18:49 -0400 Message-Id: <199509131718.NAA19994@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "David Caldwell" Organization: The Ohio State University To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1995 13:18:41 +0000 Subject: Electromotive X-Confirm-Reading-To: caldwell.62@osu.edu X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu This is David Caldwell. I'm working on a FI project for OSU's Formula SAE team. We are an undergrad design project. We presently use a Haltech F7 controller. I'd like to know if anyone is aware of other suppliers of FI systems. I've been told Electromotive has a few. How can I contact them, pnone number, Fax, etc? I'd like to use the available systems as a guide to the overall operations and features. Then, we can modify what we presently use to maximize the potential of our application. Thanks for any help you can give us! _____________________________________ Don't Accept Second Best--Bobby Rahal _____________________________________ David Caldwell Phone: (614)298-8351 259A West Norwich Ave. Email: caldwell.62@osu.edu Columbus, Ohio 43201 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 17:55:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA18243; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:51:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA18229; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:51:34 -0400 From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Received: from pandora ([13.250.20.7]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15876(5)>; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:51:12 PDT Received: from by pandora (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB07960; Wed, 13 Sep 95 14:05:20 EDT X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 13-Sep-1995 12:42:28 -0600; at X-SO-AREA-HUB.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 13-Sep-1995 13:46:40 -0400; at X-WB-NGM-MIME.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 13-Sep-1995 13:04:11 -0600; at X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:49:33 PDT To: DIY_EFI Subject: Introductions . . . Message-Id: <"D41E57308175657C@X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX"@-SMF-> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry - didn't properly introduce myself. . . . just jumped in feet first . . . I'm Bradley Miller, with the Midwest Shelby Dodge Automobile Club, Inc. Currently I'm the treasurer and membership coordinator. I've got a BS in Computer Information Systems from DeVry Institute of Technology. I've got a deep affixation with automotive repair/upgrades/re-engineering. My current daily-driver is a '93 Plymouth Duster with a 2.5L TBI motor, and my "let's see what this'll do" car is a '83 Shelby Charger with a 2.2L. The Shelby has extensive mods, including a Lunati camshaft and dual 40mm DCOE Weber carbs. I've also played a little with just aircleaners and exhaust work on the Duster, but it needs more help. The Shelby is a wild ride though, as it smokes the tires into third . . . I know . . I know . . hardly a definitive "power test", but it's already tamed many higher displacement brothern. I'm going to try to get it down to the ol' 1320 tonight to see what it'll do with the new intake/carbs. I'm also the assistant editor/contributor to our newsletter. We put out a nice 8 page newsletter every month. (Email me direct with your snail mail address for a copy . . . you won't believe the quality!) Thanks for any and all info!!! I'm hoping to provide a lot of contributions here also! Bradley Miller From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 19:01:22 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA18713; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 18:48:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA18699; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:48:33 -0400 Message-Id: <199509131848.OAA18699@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA094938106; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:48:26 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: Electromotive To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 14:48:25 EDT In-Reply-To: <199509131718.NAA19994@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>; from "David Caldwell" at Sep 13, 95 1:18 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ ~ This is David Caldwell. I'm working on a FI project for OSU's Formula SAE ~ team. We are an undergrad design project. We presently use a Haltech F7 controller. I'd like ~ to know if anyone is aware of other suppliers of FI systems. I've been told Electromotive ~ has a few. How can I contact them, pnone number, Fax, etc? I'd like to use the available ~ systems as a guide to the overall operations and features. Then, we can ~ modify what we presently use to maximize the potential of our application. ~ Thanks for any help you can give us! ~ ~ ~ _____________________________________ ~ Don't Accept Second Best--Bobby Rahal ~ _____________________________________ ~ ~ David Caldwell Phone: (614)298-8351 ~ 259A West Norwich Ave. Email: caldwell.62@osu.edu ~ Columbus, Ohio 43201 ~ I'd rather bolt on a one-barrel carb than to deal with Electromotive! - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 19:54:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA19018; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:44:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from merak.fapesp.br by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA19004; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 15:44:40 -0400 Received: from prolan.com.br (server.prolan.com.br) by merak.fapesp.br with PMDF#10108; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:44 BSC (-0300 C) Received: from PROLAN/MAILQ by prolan.com.br (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:46:45 -0300 Received: from MAILQ by PROLAN (Mercury 1.11); Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:41:03 -0300 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 16:40:58 GMT -0300 From: Newton Cesar Subject: RCPT: Electromotive To: DIY_EFI Message-id: X-Envelope-to: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Priority: normal Organization: Solucoes Integradas Prolan Ltda. X-mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.11a) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 13 Sep 95 13:18 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Electromotive Was read at 16:40, 13 Sep 95. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 21:42:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA19562; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 21:32:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from relay.xlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA19548; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 17:32:29 -0400 Received: from xlink1.xlink.net by relay.xlink.net id <05487-0@relay.xlink.net>; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 23:32:09 +0000 Received: from xlink1.xlink.net by xlink1.xlink.net id <05322-0@xlink1.xlink.net>; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 23:32:01 +0200 Received: from gate by xlink1.xlink.net id aa05311; 13 Sep 95 21:31 GMT Received: from charon (informatik) by gate with SMTP id AA18889 (5.65c8/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:01:55 +0200 Received: From INFORMATIK/WORKQUEUE by charon via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950913220601.576; 13 Sep 95 22:06:10 +0100 Message-Id: From: peter katzmann Organization: EDAG FULDA To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 22:05:58 CET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: RCPT: Electromotive Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 X-Charset: LATIN1 X-Char-Esc: 29 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 13 Sep 95 13:18 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Electromotive Was read at 22:05, 13 Sep 95. Message of the day: Grabel's Law: 2 is not equal to 3 -- not even for large values of 2. ---- EDAG-Fulda | P. Katzmann | E-Planung | Steinauer Str.| 36003 Fulda PO.BOX 340 | tel. 0661/6000-454/464 | W. Germany | in: pet@informatik.ee.edag.de katzman@ibm.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 13 23:13:22 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA19698; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 23:06:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA19684; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:06:27 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA06235 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:06:20 -0400 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 19:06:20 -0400 Message-ID: <950913190618_98754361@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Electromotive Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-13 14:21:56 EDT, caldwell.62@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (David Caldwell) writes: > This is David Caldwell. I'm working on a FI project for OSU's Formula SAE >team. We are an undergrad design project. We presently use a Haltech F7 >controller. I'd like >to know if anyone is aware of other suppliers of FI systems. I've been told >Electromotive >has a few. How can I contact them, pnone number, Fax, etc? I'd like to use >the available >systems as a guide to the overall operations and features Hi David: Electromotive, Inc. 14004-J Willard Road Chantilly, VA 22021 USA (703) 378-2444 They can be quite helpful. Cheers for now, Bonn From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 14 00:07:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA19795; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 00:04:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from yarrina.connect.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA19781; Wed, 13 Sep 1995 20:04:38 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by yarrina.connect.com.au with UUCP id KAA27719 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:04:28 +1000 Received: from charon.adacel.com.au by server.adacel.com.au with SMTP id AA02261 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 14 Sep 1995 10:02:49 +1000 Received: From ADACEL1/WORKQUEUE by charon.adacel.com.au via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.950914095506.480; 14 Sep 95 09:55:22 +1000 Message-Id: To: DIY_EFI From: "David Smith" Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 09:55:01 GMT+1000 Subject: RCPT: Electromotive Priority: normal X-Mailer: WinPMail v1.0 (R1) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 13 Sep 95 13:18 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Electromotive Was read at 9:55, 14 Sep 95. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 15 04:03:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA00733; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 03:53:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA00718; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:53:32 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA05399 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:53:59 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-074.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0stRo9-0009iXC; Thu, 14 Sep 95 22:51 EST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 22:51 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Electromotive X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >~ >~ This is David Caldwell. I'm working on a FI project for OSU's Formula SAE >~ team. We are an undergrad design project. We presently use a Haltech F7 controller. I'd like >~ to know if anyone is aware of other suppliers of FI systems. I've been told Electromotive >~ has a few. How can I contact them, pnone number, Fax, etc? I'd like to use the available >~ systems as a guide to the overall operations and features. Then, we can >~ modify what we presently use to maximize the potential of our application. >~ Thanks for any help you can give us! >~ >~ >~ _____________________________________ >~ Don't Accept Second Best--Bobby Rahal >~ _____________________________________ >~ >~ David Caldwell Phone: (614)298-8351 >~ 259A West Norwich Ave. Email: caldwell.62@osu.edu >~ Columbus, Ohio 43201 >~ >I'd rather bolt on a one-barrel carb than to deal with Electromotive! > >- Bruce > > >-- >----------------------------------------------------- ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >----------------------------------------------------- > Bruce A. Bowling > Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls > The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility > 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 > (804) 249-7240 > bowling@cebaf.gov > http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling >----------------------------------------------------- ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >----------------------------------------------------- > > Back when I was on the VT SAE Formula team at Virginia Tech we used the Electromotive system. It has a lot of features and is well built. We were able to acheive excellent horsepower and fuel economy with this system. However: I MUST AGREE WITH BRUCE. Electormotive was very difficult to deal with. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@holli.com jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 15 04:23:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA00804; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 04:17:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA00778; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 00:16:08 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA06094; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:15:05 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/SpoolDir by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 15 Sep 95 14:16:03 +1000 Received: from SpoolDir by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 15 Sep 95 14:14:45 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: efi332, DIY_EFI, efi332 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 14:14:39 EST+10 Subject: EFI332 Web Page Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The IP address for the EFI332 web page has (unfortunately) changed. Yuo should still be able to use: http:// www.cim.swin.edu.au/wwwhome/aden/efi332/332_index.html with your nameserver resolving the new address, but if you have problems try: http://136.186.9.15/wwwhome/aden/efi332/332_index.html Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 15 12:07:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id LAA01396; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:59:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA01382; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 07:59:40 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA25901 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 07:55:23 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 07:55:23 -0400 Message-ID: <950915075523_100121196@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Electromotive Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-15 00:41:09 EDT, jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) writes: > >However: I MUST AGREE WITH BRUCE. Electormotive was very difficult to >deal with. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >J.J.W. Harris Delco Electronics >Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate >Center >Powertrain Electronics I recently (last year) bought an Electomotive unit to fuel inject a 75 Lotus for the street. I was preety green in this area of aotumotive engineering, but I must say. the Electromotive was EXTREMELY helpful, and very easy to deal with. I had no problems what so ever, gave me alot of advice and technical assistance, gave me a tour of their facility, took part parts that I realized I didn't need without question, and we had a good and well informed discussion of enviromental and automotive policy. Indeed, it was a rare treat to deal with them. Plus they have a great product. I am really quite surprised at the difficulty the two people on this list have had. I would, without hesitiation, deal with them again. -Bonn Macy Energy and Environmental Economist From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 15 12:46:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA01476; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:41:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA01462; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 08:41:09 -0400 Received: from fp590.acs.ohio-state.edu by postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (8.6.9/5.901231) id IAA07524; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 08:41:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 08:41:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199509151241.IAA07524@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: caldwell.62@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: caldwell.62@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu (David Caldwell) Subject: Re: Electromotive X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >>~ >>I'd rather bolt on a one-barrel carb than to deal with Electromotive! >> >>- Bruce >>----------------------------------------------------- >><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>----------------------------------------------------- >> Bruce A. Bowling >> Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls >> The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility >> 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 >> (804) 249-7240 >> bowling@cebaf.gov >> http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling >>----------------------------------------------------- >><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>----------------------------------------------------- >> >> >Back when I was on the VT SAE Formula team at Virginia Tech we used the >Electromotive system. It has a lot of features and is well built. We >were able to acheive excellent horsepower and fuel economy with this >system. > >However: I MUST AGREE WITH BRUCE. Electormotive was very difficult to >deal with. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >J.J.W. Harris Delco Electronics >Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center >Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 >jwharris@holli.com >jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com <>Thanks for the warnings! VT's car ran well at Pontiac this year.<> ______________________________________ Don't Accept Second Best.--Bobby Rahal ______________________________________ David Caldwell Phone: (614)291-3456 1946 Indianola Ave Email: caldwell.62@osu.edu Columbus, Ohio 43201 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 15 17:04:18 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA02941; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 16:54:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA02927; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:54:07 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16159 for ; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:55:08 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-060.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0stdzs-0009iXC; Fri, 15 Sep 95 11:52 EST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 11:52 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Electromotive X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >In a message dated 95-09-15 00:41:09 EDT, jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) >writes: > >> >>However: I MUST AGREE WITH BRUCE. Electormotive was very difficult to >>deal with. >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>J.J.W. Harris Delco Electronics >>Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate >>Center >>Powertrain Electronics > >I recently (last year) bought an Electomotive unit to fuel inject a 75 Lotus >for the street. I was preety green in this area of aotumotive engineering, >but I must say. the Electromotive was EXTREMELY helpful, and very easy to >deal with. I had no problems what so ever, gave me alot of advice and >technical assistance, gave me a tour of their facility, took part parts that >I realized I didn't need without question, and we had a good and well >informed discussion of enviromental and automotive policy. Indeed, it was a >rare treat to deal with them. Plus they have a great product. I am really >quite surprised at the difficulty the two people on this list have had. I >would, without hesitiation, deal with them again. > >-Bonn Macy >Energy and Environmental Economist > > > That's interesting. Mabye things have changed over the last several years. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 15 19:44:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA00816; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 19:33:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix4.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA00802; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 15:33:51 -0400 Received: from by ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id KAA01587; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:35:15 -0700 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:35:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199509151735.KAA01587@ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: aldl data stream decoding To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu trying decode the aldl output and or input on a 1988 gm thank you ARTHUR OKUN From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 16 00:43:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA01600; Sat, 16 Sep 1995 00:35:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id UAA01586; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 20:34:58 -0400 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 20:34:58 -0400 From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Message-Id: <199509160034.UAA01586@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from info.forthnet.gr by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816 .SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA01147; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 17:52:30 -0400 Received: from athena.compulink.gr by info.forthnet.gr via FORTHnet with SMTP; id AAA16919 (8.6.12/FORTHNET-2.0); Sat, 16 Sep 1995 00:49:37 +0300 (EET DST) Organization: From: Grigoris Dimitriadis X-Mailer: SCO System V Mail (version 3.2) To: diy_efi Subject: Help on Lancia Date: Sat, 16 Sep 95 0:52:11 EET Message-ID: <9509160052.aa25295@athena.compulink.gr> Hi I am in the process of modifying my Lancia Integrale and having altered several parts of the engine i.e raising the turbo boost mechanicaly,flowing the head,replacing the Map sensor,fiting free flowing exhaust etc. i have reached the stage where i need to reprogram the eprom according to my own specifications. I have been going throwgh the eprom data for a long time,but i have not yet been able to find the specific locations of fueling,advance maps. Is it possible that the eprom contains both the maps and the operation programm of the ECU or does it contain only the maps? Could you,please,give me some clues as to how to identify the maps and how to understand the use of each map individualy? Furthermore,the boost pressure is controled by the ECU which means that the eprom contains hex numbers on the basis of which pulses are created on an electromagnetic bleed valve which increases or decreases the indication of the pressure in the wastegate diaphragm,thereby,controlling the pressure. There must be a map reffering to the above,thereby,controling the pressure according with the engine LOAD,engine RPM and the position of the throtle. Could anyone,please,help me find the exact location of the map? I will send the eprom data in UUE format named 'LANCIA.UUE' in another mail for your convenience. In case none can help me with my specific problems,is it possible for you to steer me to the right direction for my quest? My car is a Lancia Integralle Evo III 16V model '94 with catalytic converter. The ECU is WEBER-MARELLI IAW 4WG 274 93 The microcontroller of the ECU is MOTOROLA MC68HCP11E1VFN Thanks in advance greg@compulink.gr From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 18 11:23:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id LAA20754; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 11:14:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.hud.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA20740; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:14:21 -0400 Received: from ariel.hud.ac.uk by mail.hud.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <19207-0@mail.hud.ac.uk>; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 12:14:10 +0100 Received: by ariel.hud.ac.uk with Microsoft Mail id <305D5491@ariel.hud.ac.uk>; Mon, 18 Sep 95 12:14:25 bst From: Paul Shackleton To: diy-EFI Subject: Possible EFI suppliers Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 12:13:00 bst Message-ID: <305D5491@ariel.hud.ac.uk> Encoding: 14 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm sure I posted a similar message to this recently but don't remember receiving it back so I probably cocked up somewhere. Anyway here goes. Does anyone have a list of suppliers of programmable EFI systems and details of the systems they provide? Preferably low price and available in UK. I belive Microdynamics do one and there's also the Weber and Lumenition systems and one from Motec in Australia. Are there any more. Especially ones where just the "black box" is available, like one that I believe is shortly to be produced by Emerald cams? Paul Shackleton University of Huddersfield. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 18 20:09:59 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA23425; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:04:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA23411; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:04:37 -0400 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA15405; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:04:30 -0400 Date: 18 Sep 95 16:02:02 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Re: Possible EFI suppliers Message-ID: <950918200202_100341.377_EHQ76-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Paul Shackleton wrote: >I'm sure I posted a similar message to this recently but don't remember >receiving it back so I probably cocked up somewhere. Anyway here goes. >Does anyone have a list of suppliers of programmable EFI systems and details >of the systems they provide? Preferably low price and available in UK. I >belive Microdynamics do one and there's also the Weber and Lumenition >systems and one from Motec in Australia. Are there any more. Especially ones >where just the "black box" is available, like one that I believe is shortly >to be produced by Emerald cams? Paul, The list has been exceptionally quiet recently what is everybody doing. Are things really still happening on this list? Recent issue of Autosport had this ad: Engine Management Systems Compact ECU's for full ignition and fuel control All ystems have closed loop fuel mapping Superb graphical software included Prices from only GBP550 for four cylinders Free training and trade terms for professional engine builders Contact: DTA Florence Street, Bradford, BD3 8EX Tel: 01274 667960 Fax: 01274 663627 Local for both me (in Leeds) and you but i'm not sure if your definition of cheap equals GBP550 Martin From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 18 20:10:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA23449; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 20:07:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dub-img-3.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA23435; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:06:59 -0400 Received: by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA06749; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:06:51 -0400 Date: 18 Sep 95 16:03:52 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Copy of: Delco ECM uP type Message-ID: <950918200351_100341.377_EHQ76-6@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone out there know what the basis of the uP used in my Delco sourced ECM is? The service number is: 161322411.6D MAN FED 16161499 AXMZ The prom is a 27128 type mounted on a blue/brown header plugged into the pcb. On the pcb are a number of 52 pin plcc packaged ic's markings as follows 2 chips marked 519K 9115 1049 16079435 1 chip marked DELCO 16126532 161 9049 JAPAN A 035 1 chip marked 185 16126997 KQEVZ9028D The chip is probably not a 68HC11 as it seems to write to the TMSK2 register twice in the first few lines of code and also tries to read the CFORC register which is supposed to be write only. I'm begining to come to the conclusion that the uP is either a special or maybe a 6801/6805. The code 27C107 P5 is etched on the topside of the board with 27107 P8 in the silk screening. Anyone got any ideas? Martin Evans From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 18 21:12:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA24041; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:10:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA24027; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:10:46 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0sunRo-000CutC; Mon, 18 Sep 95 16:09 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Copy of: Delco ECM uP type To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:09:52 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <950918200351_100341.377_EHQ76-6@CompuServe.COM> from "Martin Evans" at Sep 18, 95 04:03:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 855 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Martin Evans writes: > > Does anyone out there know what the basis of the uP used in > my Delco sourced ECM is? > > The service number is: > 161322411.6D MAN FED 16161499 AXMZ > supposed to be write only. I'm begining to come to > the conclusion that the uP is either a special or maybe > a 6801/6805. I'm not intimately familiar with GM uP's, but I know that the ECM in my 91 GMC 2500 used a custom chip that was based on the 6801. If anyone needs it, I have a 6801 disassembler (c source and dos .exe) at ftp://ftp.edge.net/prv/lusky (think I got the source from Dave Cooley). -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 18 21:31:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA24087; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:27:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gw2.att.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA24073; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:27:31 -0400 Received: from ihgp1.ih.att.com by ig2.att.att.com id AA04586; Mon, 18 Sep 95 16:52:53 EDT Received: by ihgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.2.1 sol2) id AA13786; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:46:15 -0500 From: Bohdan.L.Bodnar@att.com Received: by ihgp1.ih.att.com (5.0/EMS-1.2.1 sol2) id AA13753; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:46:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 15:46:11 -0500 Message-Id: <9509182046.AA13753@ihgp1.ih.att.com> Original-From: bohdan@ihgp.ih.att.com (Bohdan L Bodnar) To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Copy of: Delco ECM uP type Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I don't know the details of the processor, but I do know that 1980s GM powertrain control computers were based on Motorola's MC6800 family. The design was done at Zenith's Automotive electronics division at Glenview, IL. Bohdan Bodnar From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 18 21:51:14 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA24141; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:46:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA24127; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:46:25 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA08969 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 18 Sep 95 14:46:12 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA20840; Mon, 18 Sep 95 14:46:07 MST Received: from dock.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA08717; Mon, 18 Sep 95 16:46:05 -0500 Received: from rabbit.mot.delcoelect.com by dock.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14230; Mon, 18 Sep 95 16:57:05 CDT Received: from cobrajet.mot.delcoelect.com by rabbit.mot.delcoelect.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id QAA01482 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:45:46 -0500 From: Matt Sale Received: by cobrajet.mot.delcoelect.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id RAA15881 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:45:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199509182145.RAA15881@cobrajet.mot.delcoelect.com> Subject: Re: Copy of: Delco ECM uP type To: DIY_EFI Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 16:45:46 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <950918200351_100341.377_EHQ76-6@CompuServe.COM> from "Martin Evans" at Sep 18, 95 04:03:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 587 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Does anyone out there know what the basis of the uP used in > my Delco sourced ECM is? > > The service number is: > 161322411.6D MAN FED 16161499 AXMZ > > The prom is a 27128 type mounted on a blue/brown > header plugged into the pcb. > > On the pcb are a number of 52 pin plcc packaged ic's > markings as follows > > > Martin Evans > > Don't know for sure, but it should be either a 68HC11A8 or 68HC11E9. I don't remember any other uP's that were packaged in 52-pin PLCC's. -- Matthew D. Sale Delco/Motorola Joint Design Center E-mail: mds@mot.delcoelect.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 18 23:27:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA24422; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 23:25:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA24408; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 19:25:18 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA17503; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:25:08 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/SpoolDir by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 19 Sep 95 09:25:37 +1000 Received: from SpoolDir by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 19 Sep 95 09:25:08 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 09:25:08 EST+10 Subject: Re: Possible EFI suppliers Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <1514AE7194B@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anyone have a list of suppliers of programmable EFI systems and details > of the systems they provide? In Australia there are lots of systems available: Microtech Injec Motec (as you mentioned) Wolf (designed by a guy on this list) Autronic and several others I can't remember... A local magazine did a review of several engine management systems a few months ago but I can't remember which one; I'll try to remember to check tonight. Preferably low price and available in UK. I > belive Microdynamics do one and there's also the Weber and Lumenition > systems and one from Motec in Australia. Are there any more. Especially ones > where just the "black box" is available, like one that I believe is shortly > to be produced by Emerald cams? > > > Paul Shackleton > University of Huddersfield. > Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 19 01:22:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA24699; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 01:20:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA24685; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:20:23 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma020038; Tue Sep 19 11:18:11 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma014984; Tue Sep 19 11:17:56 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id LAA00193 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:17:54 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199509190117.LAA00193@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Possible EFI suppliers To: DIY_EFI Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 11:17:52 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <1514AE7194B@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> from "Andrew Dennison" at Sep 19, 95 09:25:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1082 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > In Australia there are lots of systems available: > Microtech > Injec > Motec (as you mentioned) > Wolf (designed by a guy on this list) > Autronic > and several others I can't remember... Haltech Fueltronics (sort of.. Lots of EFI electronics and reprogrammed GM ecus hot up chips etc) C.O.M.E. (ONLY reprogrammed GM P4s/C3s) Link-EMX (From NZ) Holley (Throttle body injection using Crane?? computer) Electromotive Autronic is made by the guy who did the electronics for the first of the Motec screwdriver models nearly 10 years ago. The Owner of fueltronics is also on the internet but doesn't use mail > A local magazine did a review of several engine management systems a > few months ago but I can't remember which one; I'll try to remember > to check tonight. Try FF+R Feb94 P14. Comparison of the sub $1k market. A certain screwdriver model wasn't liked by the author much. I did have a reference to a BYTE article with an F1 computer in it that makes even the top line aftermarket units look like toys.. I'll try to find it. Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 19 02:23:35 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA24885; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 02:21:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA24871; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:21:14 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02258 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:23:25 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-081.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0susHG-0009iVC; Mon, 18 Sep 95 21:19 EST Message-Id: Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 21:19 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Copy of: Delco ECM uP type X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >> Does anyone out there know what the basis of the uP used in >> my Delco sourced ECM is? >> >> The service number is: >> 161322411.6D MAN FED 16161499 AXMZ >> >> The prom is a 27128 type mounted on a blue/brown >> header plugged into the pcb. >> >> On the pcb are a number of 52 pin plcc packaged ic's >> markings as follows >> > >> >> Martin Evans >> >> > >Don't know for sure, but it should be either a 68HC11A8 or 68HC11E9. I >don't remember any other uP's that were packaged in 52-pin PLCC's. > > >-- >Matthew D. Sale >Delco/Motorola Joint Design Center E-mail: mds@mot.delcoelect.com > > > It's an A8. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 19 02:37:23 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA24973; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 02:34:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA24959; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 22:34:42 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02564 for ; Mon, 18 Sep 1995 21:36:58 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-081.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0susUO-0009iVC; Mon, 18 Sep 95 21:32 EST Message-Id: Date: Mon, 18 Sep 95 21:32 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: aldl data stream decoding X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >trying decode the aldl output and or input on a 1988 gm > > >thank you > > ARTHUR OKUN > > I was at a SAE OBDII toptec and found this out about avialability of ALDL data information: The final rule for avialability of emission service related information is contained in the Federal Register Vol. 60, No. 153, Wednesday, Aug., 9 1995. Page 40474. This rule requires manufacturers to make avialable all serivce information supplied to dealers at a reasonable cost. There is an online computer system called FedWorld which can be accessed up to 3 hours a day at 703-321-3339. This tells what is available, where and the cost. It can be also accessed by telneting to fedworld.gov. The Equipment and Tool Institute, 1806 Johns Drive, Glenview, IL 60025-1657 708-729-8550, 708-729-3670 (fax) provides a annual forum called the Domestic Tech Week where (scan)tool makers meet with the big three to discuss new model changes including Class II data stream information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 19 19:50:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA28032; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:45:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA28018; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:45:03 -0400 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA17439; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 15:44:45 -0400 Date: 19 Sep 95 15:37:00 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Re: Copy of: Delco ECM uP type Message-ID: <950919193659_100341.377_EHQ70-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Martin Evans wrote: > Does anyone out there know what the basis of the uP used in > my Delco sourced ECM is? > On the pcb are a number of 52 pin plcc packaged ic's > markings as follows Matthew D. Sale then wrote: >Don't know for sure, but it should be either a 68HC11A8 or 68HC11E9. >I don't remember any other uP's that were packaged in 52-pin PLCC's. J.W. Harris in reply wrote: >It's an A8. Does this ECM possibly use dual processors (one for backup mode one for normal operation). The reason for asking this is that two of the IC's carry identical markings that may possibly indicate that this is the case. I've run my code on the SIM68 simulator and came across the following possible problem. Trace of a reset of my ECU which possibly as indicated above does contains a 6811. Note locations indicated ***. Is there any significance in the fact that the code writes the same value twice to TMSK2 the first being valid and the second apparently outside the 64 cycle limit for access to this register. Is this because of the use of SMOD? Vector to $C008 P-C008 Y-0000 X-0000 A-00 B-00 C-50 S-0000 LDAA #$80 P-C00A Y-0000 X-0000 A-80 B-00 C-58 S-0000 ORAA $00 P-C00C Y-0000 X-0000 A-C5 B-00 C-58 S-0000 STAA $00 P-C00E Y-0000 X-0000 A-C5 B-00 C-58 S-0000 LDS #$01FF P-C011 Y-0000 X-0000 A-C5 B-00 C-50 S-01FF LDAA #$01 P-C013 Y-0000 X-0000 A-01 B-00 C-50 S-01FF STAA $103D P-C016 Y-0000 X-0000 A-01 B-00 C-50 S-01FF LDAA #$98 P-C018 Y-0000 X-0000 A-98 B-00 C-58 S-01FF STAA $1039 P-C01B Y-0000 X-0000 A-98 B-00 C-58 S-01FF LDAA #$03 P-C01D Y-0000 X-0000 A-03 B-00 C-50 S-01FF STAA $1024 *** P-C020 Y-0000 X-0000 A-03 B-00 C-50 S-01FF CLRA P-C021 Y-0000 X-0000 A-00 B-00 C-54 S-01FF STAA $1000 P-C024 Y-0000 X-0000 A-00 B-00 C-54 S-01FF STAA $1008 P-C027 Y-0000 X-0000 A-00 B-00 C-54 S-01FF LDAA #$38 P-C029 Y-0000 X-0000 A-38 B-00 C-50 S-01FF STAA $1009 P-C02C Y-0000 X-0000 A-38 B-00 C-50 S-01FF LDAA #$A0 P-C02E Y-0000 X-0000 A-A0 B-00 C-58 S-01FF STAA $1020 P-C031 Y-0000 X-0000 A-A0 B-00 C-58 S-01FF LDAA #$51 P-C033 Y-0000 X-0000 A-51 B-00 C-50 S-01FF STAA $1028 P-C036 Y-0000 X-0000 A-51 B-00 C-50 S-01FF End of 64 cycles LDAA #$04 P-C038 Y-0000 X-0000 A-04 B-00 C-50 S-01FF STAA $102B P-C03B Y-0000 X-0000 A-04 B-00 C-50 S-01FF JSR $F51F P-F51F Y-0000 X-0000 A-04 B-00 C-50 S-01FD LDX #$1000 P-F522 Y-0000 X-1000 A-04 B-00 C-50 S-01FD LDAA #$98 P-F524 Y-0000 X-1000 A-98 B-00 C-58 S-01FD STAA $1039 P-F527 Y-0000 X-1000 A-98 B-00 C-58 S-01FD LDAA #$03 P-F529 Y-0000 X-1000 A-03 B-00 C-50 S-01FD STAA $1024 *** P-F52C Y-0000 X-1000 A-03 B-00 C-50 S-01FD TMSK2 was written to the same value at P= $C020 above LDAA #$88 P-F52E Y-0000 X-1000 A-88 B-00 C-58 S-01FD STAA $1026 P-F531 Y-0000 X-1000 A-88 B-00 C-58 S-01FD LDAA #$38 P-F533 Y-0000 X-1000 A-38 B-00 C-50 S-01FD STAA $1009 P-F536 Y-0000 X-1000 A-38 B-00 C-50 S-01FD LDAA $800F P-F539 Y-0000 X-1000 A-41 B-00 C-50 S-01FD STAA $1021 P-F53C Y-0000 X-1000 A-41 B-00 C-50 S-01FD BCLR $0C,X $F8 P-F53F Y-0000 X-1000 A-41 B-00 C-54 S-01FD BCLR $0B,X $98 P-F542 Y-0000 X-1000 A-41 B-00 C-54 S-01FD TPA P-F543 Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-54 S-01FD SEI P-F544 Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-54 S-01FD BSET $3C,X $05 P-F547 Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-50 S-01FD BCLR $3C,X $0A P-F54A Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-50 S-01FD (Write to HPRIO) (Bit 6 is SMOD) TAP P-F54B Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-54 S-01FD RTS P-C03E Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-54 S-01FF JSR $EE74 P-EE74 Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-54 S-01FD RTS P-C041 Y-0000 X-1000 A-54 B-00 C-54 S-01FF LDAA #$08 P-C043 Y-0000 X-1000 A-08 B-00 C-50 S-01FF STAA $5000 P-C046 Y-0000 X-1000 A-08 B-00 C-50 S-01FF LDD #$E35A P-C049 Y-0000 X-1000 A-E3 B-5A C-58 S-01FF BRCLR $05 $04 $02 P-C04D Y-0000 X-1000 A-E3 B-5A C-58 S-01FF ANDB #$F7 P-C04F Y-0000 X-1000 A-E3 B-52 C-50 S-01FF STD $3FFC P-C052 Y-0000 X-1000 A-E3 B-52 C-58 S-01FF LDX #$01FF P-C055 Y-0000 X-01FF A-E3 B-52 C-50 S-01FF CLRA P-C056 Y-0000 X-01FF A-00 B-52 C-54 S-01FF STAA $00,X P-C058 Y-0000 X-01FF A-00 B-52 C-54 S-01FF DEX P-C059 Y-0000 X-01FE A-00 B-52 C-50 S-01FF CPX #$0019 P-C05C Y-0000 X-01FE A-00 B-52 C-50 S-01FF BNE $F8 P-C056 Y-0000 X-01FE A-00 B-52 C-50 S-01FF STAA $00,X P-C058 Y-0000 X-01FE A-00 B-52 C-54 S-01FF DEX P-C059 Y-0000 X-01FD A-00 B-52 C-50 S-01FF Dump of the top of memory: 3FA0 EE 42 01 88 00 1B 00 1C EE BD EE A9 EE 7F EE 96 3FB0 00 45 00 43 00 47 00 00 00 00 8C 1B 00 00 00 00 3FC0 F4 A8 F4 A8 F4 A8 F4 A8 F4 A8 F4 A8 F4 A8 F4 A8 3FD0 F4 A8 F4 A8 F4 A8 F5 6A F4 AC F4 B0 F4 B4 F4 B8 3FE0 C2 20 F4 BC F3 A3 F2 91 F4 C0 F3 FA F3 C4 F3 E3 3FF0 F4 C4 F4 C8 F4 CC F4 D0 F4 D4 C0 00 C0 04 C0 08 Sorry for the long post! Martin Evans From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 20 00:55:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA03255; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 00:52:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix6.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA03241; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 20:52:51 -0400 Received: from by ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id RAA00527; Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:52:37 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 17:52:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199509200052.RAA00527@ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: Re: Copy of: Delco ECM uP type To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu list diy_efi archive_num_12 list diy_efi archive_num_13 list diy_efi archive_num_14 list diy_efi archive_num_15 list diy_efi archive_num_16 list diy efi archive_num_17 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 20 13:21:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA04456; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:14:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA04442; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:14:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199509201314.JAA04442@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA135022875; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 09:14:35 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: 2-D interpolation for HC11 To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 9:14:35 EDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone out there have some code worked up on a 'HC11 which performs 2-D table lookup on 8-bit unsigned data? I have a project here at work which uses two pressure sensors attached to the A/D ports, and I need to perform a calculation z = F(x,y), with x and y being the A/D readings, and z is the resultant table lookup. Thanks in advance - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 20 15:59:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA05318; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:46:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gateway.sequent.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA05300; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 11:46:49 -0400 Received: from sequent.sequent.com (sequent.sequent.com [138.95.19.1]) by gateway.sequent.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA08519 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:41:37 -0700 Received: from localhost by sequent.sequent.com (8.6.12/1.34) id IAA05234; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 08:45:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199509201545.IAA05234@sequent.sequent.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: 'Period Of Double Amplitude' Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 08:45:41 PDT From: Harmon Sommer Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I ran across the phrase 'Period Of Double Amplitude' while reading on motorcycle stability. I think it is related to oscillation or vibration, but I do not know what it means. Any definitions of, or text references about this phrase, will be appreciated. Thx, harmons@sequent.com (Harmon Sommer) From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 20 17:48:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA05830; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:44:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA05816; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:44:46 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA21856 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:44:32 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA03968; Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:44:31 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18065; Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:44:30 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10748; Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:40:53 CDT Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:40:53 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509201740.AA10748@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Introduction Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Finally got around the signing up for the DIY_EFI list, and wading through some of the old email messages... whew! ;-) I'm another long time electronics and automotive nut. Senior project at Cal Poly (BSET '83) was a Time-speed-distance computer based on a 8085. Even used a homebuilt eprom burner to load those 2716's! ;-) Few years back I started looking at using 8031 & 80552's as a basis for a fuel injection system. While the electronics was straight forward, I never got anything under the hood due to a lack of "mechanical things" to get everything bolted up. ;-( Last year I managed to get a full size milling machine (Index, like a Bridgeport) and metal lathe (LeBlond) into the garage. So at least now I can whittle down those hunks of aluminum! ;-) Haven't used the 68HC11 or '16s in any thing, but hopefully will be able to take a one week class and get up to speed on them. Hmm, I wonder if I could get my boss to send me to a 68332 class for a week? ;-) Cheers, Tom Walter Datsun's ['67 2000; '68 2000; '71 510; '72 510] Austin, TX. Ford: '95 Aerostar walter@roadster.sps.mot.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 20 17:48:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA05848; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:45:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA05832; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:45:06 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA22050 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:44:57 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA03978; Wed, 20 Sep 95 10:44:56 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18068; Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:44:55 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10751; Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:41:18 CDT Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:41:18 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509201741.AA10751@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Wiring harness connectors / Conformal coating Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu A few questions, which I did not see addressed in past email messages: Wiring Bulk head connectors: While I would love to find the Male/Femal Bosch style connectors (made by AMP, but I have not found a source for them), I am curious as to what other people are using? Conformal Coatings: For those with computers under the hood, ect. Did you coat the board? Pot it? What type of material did you use? Thanks, Tom Walter From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 20 18:26:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA06105; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:22:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from omega.uta.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA06090; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 14:22:22 -0400 Received: (from csh5742@localhost) by omega.uta.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA10290; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:22:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 13:22:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Craig Henry X-Sender: csh5742@omega To: DIY_EFI cc: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Wiring harness connectors / Conformal coating In-Reply-To: <9509201741.AA10751@roadster.autotest> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, thomas walter x5955 wrote: > A few questions, which I did not see addressed in past email messages: > > Wiring Bulk head connectors: > While I would love to find the Male/Femal Bosch style connectors (made by > AMP, but I have not found a source for them), I am curious as to what other > people are using? I personally like the Weather-Pack connectors from Packard-Electric. You will have to go through a distributor like Bowman Industries. But hang-on... they are expensive! Hope this helps! Craig Henry. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 20 22:55:59 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA07103; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:49:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA07089; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 18:49:48 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA14219 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 17:44:54 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-060.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0svXvo-0009iqC; Wed, 20 Sep 95 17:47 EST Message-Id: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 17:47 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Wiring harness connectors / Conformal coating X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >On Wed, 20 Sep 1995, thomas walter x5955 wrote: > >> A few questions, which I did not see addressed in past email messages: >> >> Wiring Bulk head connectors: >> While I would love to find the Male/Femal Bosch style connectors (made by >> AMP, but I have not found a source for them), I am curious as to what other >> people are using? > > I personally like the Weather-Pack connectors from Packard-Electric. >You will have to go through a distributor like Bowman Industries. But >hang-on... they are expensive! > >Hope this helps! > Craig Henry. > > > Packard makes some good stuff and their connectors are popular with the aftermarket. As far as cost, connector shells should be able to be salvaged from a local junkyard for almost nothing. Fabricate or buy a tool to remove the pins. Square pins can usually be released with a paper clip. Round pins need a very thin tube the exact diameter of the pin. We made one in college but it requires a precise lathe and a lot of patience. Pins should be available through a local GM dealer and they should be able to give you the J-XXX numbers of the pin tools. If your'e in a bind, the larger weatherpack pins can be reused if a you carefully make a reliable soldered connection. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 21 01:13:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA07319; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 01:04:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA07304; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 21:03:56 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA26318; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:03:19 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/SpoolDir by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 21 Sep 95 11:03:56 +1000 Received: from SpoolDir by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 21 Sep 95 11:03:14 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:03:06 EST+10 Subject: Re: 2-D interpolation for HC11 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <182F25171A8@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Does anyone out there have some code worked up on > a 'HC11 which performs 2-D table lookup on 8-bit > unsigned data? I have a project here at work which > uses two pressure sensors attached to the A/D ports, > and I need to perform a calculation z = F(x,y), > with x and y being the A/D readings, and z is > the resultant table lookup. > Hi Bruce, I have some table interpolation code for the HC11 however it is a 1-D table with 16 bit values. The code is optomised inline assembler for the HITECH-C compiler. The code has been tested thoroughly - I sumulated every boundary condition and it allows for positive and negative slope in the map. I started to write a 2-D map but I didn't really need it at the time... I'll send the code if you think it may be useful. Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 21 04:18:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA07641; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 04:09:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gater3.sematech.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA07627; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 00:09:45 -0400 Received: from GATEV4.SEMATECH.ORG by gater3.sematech.org (8.6.12/F-1.9) with ESMTP id XAA18802; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:09:36 -0500 Received: from MR.SEMATECH.Org by SEMATECH.Org (PMDF V4.3-13 #5463) id <01HVILM6VE0G8Y5ORV@SEMATECH.Org>; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:09:10 -0500 (CDT) Received: with PMDF-MR; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:08:07 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta MAILV2; Relayed; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:08:07 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta GATEV1; Relayed; Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:07:51 -0500 (CDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 22:56:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759 Subject: RE: Pin pushers To: diy_efi Message-id: <01HVILM7VK3Q8Y5ORV@MR.SEMATECH.Org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Posting-date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 23:03:00 -0500 (CDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-MTS-identifier: [;70803202905991/1723786@VAXEN] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all, I've been lurking for the most part with little to say. However, you all have finally broached a subject I can comment on. If you need a tool to release the pins on a used weatherpak connector they are as close as any decent electronics parts store, maybe even Radio Shack. We, in the trade, call them pin pushers. What the official name is I haven't a clue. Basically they are a cylinder that fits over the pin and releases the catch a rod then slides thru the cylinder to push the pin out. I have dozens lying around at work. If you buy new pins they generally come with a pin installer and pusher. Take the connector with you so you can get the right size. Steve M Knickerbocker From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 21 13:56:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA08754; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 13:40:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA08740; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:40:24 -0400 Message-Id: <199509211340.JAA08740@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA003330813; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 09:40:13 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: 2-D interpolation for HC11 To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 9:40:12 EDT In-Reply-To: <182F25171A8@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au>; from "Andrew Dennison" at Sep 21, 95 11:03 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ Hi Bruce, ~ I have some table interpolation code for the HC11 however it is a 1-D ~ table with 16 bit values. The code is optomised inline assembler for ~ the HITECH-C compiler. The code has been tested thoroughly - I ~ sumulated every boundary condition and it allows for positive and ~ negative slope in the map. I started to write a 2-D map but I didn't ~ really need it at the time... ~ I'll send the code if you think it may be useful. ~ ~ Andrew ~ Yes, I will take a copy - I am sure can use it. Researching into the 2-D interpolation problem, the "cleanest" algorithm that I have found to date is in the Handbook of Mathematical Functions by Abramowitz and Stegun, which uses the 4-point method: f(x0+ph, y0+qk) = (1-p) * (1-q) * f(0,0) + p * (1-q) * f(1,0) + (1-p) * q * f(0,1) + p * q * f(1,1) with: x0, y0 = some arbitrary baseline (D.C. offset) p = normalized 1st coordinate value (ranging from 0 to 1) p = normalized 2nd coordinate value (ranging from 0 to 1) f(0,0) = function value at grid point coordinate (0,0) f(0,1) = function value at grid point coordinate (0,1) f(1,0) = function value at grid point coordinate (1,0) f(1,1) = function value at grid point coordinate (1,1) There are 5, 6, and 7 point formulas as well, but more complicated. Anyone out there know of anything else more suited for integer or fixed-point math? Thanks again, Andrew - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 21 14:11:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA08809; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 14:00:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA08795; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 10:00:35 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA26581 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 21 Sep 95 07:00:23 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA23787; Thu, 21 Sep 95 07:00:21 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01884; Thu, 21 Sep 95 09:00:20 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11396; Thu, 21 Sep 95 08:56:42 CDT Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 08:56:42 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509211356.AA11396@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: RE: Pin pushers Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Thanks for the feedback on the connectors. ON the "pin pushers" I have used various paper clips, home made extracters, etc. Also seen to LOOSE them someplace. ;-( In the autoparts store, Leslie(?) brand tools (red & white packaging) sells an "automotive" pin pusher... about six common "pin pushers" all connected to an hex piece of green anodized aluminum. Cost about $10... > If your'e in a bind, the larger > weatherpack pins can be reused if a you carefully make a > reliable soldered > connection. Quick comment on soldering "under the hood". If a cable is fully strain relieved, then soldering is OK... BUT, If the solder "wicks" down the cable, it will make a stiff wire meet a flexible cable (at the point where the solder stopped wicking). With vibration, and time, the wire will break at that point. (Use of a heat sink on the wire prevents this problem.) Favorite connectors: Molex brand crimp and "heat shrink" style. The heat shrink has an internal melt glue, resulting in a weather proof connection. (Usually a package of 10 cost $5.00 - OUCH!) [Years back I used to run Pro-Rally cars, and build harnesses for some of the teams (ugh!). Thankfully no DNF's from wiring problems... only trees in the wrong places. ;-) Sorry to be so wordy, but in looking over old messages I haven't seen too much on the "wiring end" of the business. Hopefully someone will find this type of info usefull. Cheers, Tom Walter Austin, TX. P.S. For those around AUSTIN: I picked up some big bags of heat shrink tubing (five year shelf life - expired 6/95). If you need some, drop me an email. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 21 15:41:53 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA10125; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 15:32:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA10111; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:32:08 -0400 From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Received: from pandora ([13.250.20.7]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15444(4)>; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 08:28:57 PDT Received: from by pandora (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB21450; Thu, 21 Sep 95 11:43:18 EDT X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 21-Sep-1995 10:15:36 -0600; at X-SO-AREA-HUB.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 21-Sep-1995 11:15:48 -0400; at X-WB-NGM-MIME.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 21-Sep-1995 10:36:42 -0600; at X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 07:22:24 PDT To: DIY_EFI Message-Id: <"<9F9B60308175657C>9F9B60308175657C@X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX"@-SMF-> Subject: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello - I was noticing the discussion on suppliers, and wanted to know if anyone had heard of this company: Racetech Engineering Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 Phone: (403) 274-0154 Here's some info from their flyer/ads: Simple Digital Systems EM-1 If You have ever cursed and struggled with one of those PC programmable engine management systems and thought there must be a better way, well now there it. Its called SDS EM-1. - SDS is the easiest digital management system to install and program on the market today - period - No high priced software to purchase of licensing agreements to sign - Full sensor diagnostics available in real time - Crank triggered, fully programmable ignition with optional knock control - SDS needs no laptop or PC for programming It sounds pretty good - and if everything goes ok with sponsors/feasibility study, I might use this in the Car & Driver One Lap of America race next year. Right now I've gotta come up with enough sponsors for costs - - but the system sounds great and is priced REALLY good . . . . If anyone wants anymore info, or has any info to share with me, please email me direct. Thanks! Bradley Miller Xerox Business Services, Kansas City Midwest Shelby Dodge Inc. Email: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Alternate: Brad2dbone@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 02:06:51 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA24729; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:01:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA24715; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:01:36 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA01723 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 20:57:08 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-062.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0svxOw-0009ilC; Thu, 21 Sep 95 20:59 EST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 20:59 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: RE: Pin pushers X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Thanks for the feedback on the connectors. > >ON the "pin pushers" I have used various paper clips, >home made extracters, etc. Also seen to LOOSE them >someplace. ;-( > >In the autoparts store, Leslie(?) brand tools (red & white >packaging) sells an "automotive" pin pusher... about >six common "pin pushers" all connected to an hex piece >of green anodized aluminum. Cost about $10... > > >> If your'e in a bind, the larger >> weatherpack pins can be reused if a you carefully make a >> reliable soldered >> connection. > >Quick comment on soldering "under the hood". If a cable is fully >strain relieved, then soldering is OK... BUT, If the solder "wicks" >down the cable, it will make a stiff wire meet a flexible cable >(at the point where the solder stopped wicking). With vibration, and >time, the wire will break at that point. (Use of a heat sink on >the wire prevents this problem.) > >Favorite connectors: Molex brand crimp and "heat shrink" style. >The heat shrink has an internal melt glue, resulting in a weather >proof connection. (Usually a package of 10 cost $5.00 - OUCH!) > >[Years back I used to run Pro-Rally cars, and build harnesses for >some of the teams (ugh!). Thankfully no DNF's from wiring problems... >only trees in the wrong places. ;-) > >Sorry to be so wordy, but in looking over old messages I haven't >seen too much on the "wiring end" of the business. Hopefully someone >will find this type of info usefull. > >Cheers, > >Tom Walter >Austin, TX. > >P.S. For those around AUSTIN: I picked up some big bags of heat >shrink tubing (five year shelf life - expired 6/95). If you need >some, drop me an email. > > > Yes, this is a very important point. Solder that has wicked up the wire will cause it to fatigue and crack in short order. Use a very hot iron and work quickly to produce a good joint without making a "cold" joint. When using the weather-pack connectors with round pins, crimp the wire with the first set of tabs in the center and bend the wire up from the pin as shown: Insulated wire --|Stripped ================ || \ || ----------- >>>>>>> <----Pin Second tabs First Tabs || Solder and slide the already installed rubber grommet up the wire to the pin and crimp the second pair of tabs around it. This will allow the wire to pass through the center of the grommet. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 02:48:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA24922; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 02:46:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from curly.cc.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA24908; Thu, 21 Sep 1995 22:46:00 -0400 Received: from mechman.mm.swin.edu.au by curly.cc.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA01127; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:45:18 +1000 Received: from MECHMAN/SpoolDir by mechman.mm.swin.edu.au (Mercury 1.21); 22 Sep 95 12:45:18 +1000 Received: from SpoolDir by MECHMAN (Mercury 1.21); 22 Sep 95 12:44:44 +1000 From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:44:40 EST+10 Subject: Re: 2-D interpolation for HC11 Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.01) Message-Id: <19CA80E1ECD@mechman.mm.swin.edu.au> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Yes, I will take a copy - I am sure can use it. Ok. It's at the end of this post. > > Researching into the 2-D interpolation problem, the "cleanest" > algorithm that I have found to date is in the Handbook of > Mathematical Functions by Abramowitz and Stegun, which uses > the 4-point method: > > f(x0+ph, y0+qk) = (1-p) * (1-q) * f(0,0) + p * (1-q) * f(1,0) + > (1-p) * q * f(0,1) + p * q * f(1,1) > with: > x0, y0 = some arbitrary baseline (D.C. offset) > p = normalized 1st coordinate value (ranging from 0 to 1) > p = normalized 2nd coordinate value (ranging from 0 to 1) > f(0,0) = function value at grid point coordinate (0,0) > f(0,1) = function value at grid point coordinate (0,1) > f(1,0) = function value at grid point coordinate (1,0) > f(1,1) = function value at grid point coordinate (1,1) > > There are 5, 6, and 7 point formulas as well, but more complicated. > > Anyone out there know of anything else more suited for > integer or fixed-point math? My code does most of it's calculations in fractions, ie 0 -> 0xFFFF is 0 to 1. You use the same basic algorithms as floating point except scale your data to use the dynamic range of your integers (while avoiding overflows). This code was used to calculate the required position of a stepper motor based on the duty cycle of a fuel injector. The map has 16 equispaces elements but can be easily hacked for 8, 16, 32, 64, etc. These are the global variables the code manipulates: short Stepper_Desired_Position; /* output from interpolation*/ unsigned short Injector_Duty_Cycle; /* input variable */ unsigned short Injector_Map [16]; /* 16 element table */ char Current_Map_Index; /* the data point currently being used */ /*************************** Table Interpolate *****************************/ /** This function uses the Injector Duty Cycle to calculate the required **/ /** stepper motor position. **/ /***************************************************************************/ void Table_Interpolate () { #asm ;register unsigned char Index; ;Index = (unsigned char) Injector_Duty_Cycle / 0x1000; ldd _Injector_Duty_Cycle ldx #1000h idiv xgdx ;Index in ACCB ;if (Index == 0) subb #0 ;Test ACCB bne t_else stab _Current_Map_Index ;for map adjustment ;Stepper_Desired_Position = Injector_Map [0] * (Injector_Duty_Cycle & 0x0FFF) / 0x0FFF; ldd _Injector_Duty_Cycle anda #15 ;mask with 0x0FFF ldx #0FFFh fdiv ;Duty * 2^16 / 0x0FFF xgdx ;get fraction in D ldab _Injector_Map+1 ;ls byte of Injector_Map[0] mul ;ms byte of fraction in a tab ;keep ms byte of result clra ;extend to 16 bits std _Stepper_Desired_Position jmp t_end ;else ;Stepper_Desired_Position = Injector_Map [Index-1] + ;((Injector_Map [Index] - Injector_Map [Index-1]) * ;(Injector_Duty_Cycle & 0x0FFF) / 0x0FFF); t_else ldx #_Injector_Duty_Cycle brclr 0,x, 08h, t1 stab _Current_Map_Index ;Closest data point is Index addb #-1 bra t2 t1 addb #-1 stab _Current_Map_Index ;Closest data point is Index-1 t2 clra asld ;Index * 2 for 16 bit table addd #_Injector_Map std ctemp ;save pointer to Injecter_Map [Index-1] ldd _Injector_Duty_Cycle anda #15 ;mask with 0x0FFF ldx #0FFFh fdiv ;Duty * 2^16 / 0x0FFF pshx ;save fraction on stack ldx ctemp ldd 2,X ;Get Injector_Map [Index] subd 0,X ;subtract Injector_Map [Index-1] staa ctemp ;sign extended part (0x00 or 0xFF) pula ;get high byte of fraction bgt t3 ;if subd result was positive negb ;else subd result was negative mul ;b is unsigned map difference nega ;make ms byte of result -ve again bra t4 ;end of else t3 mul ;b contains low byte of map difference t4 tab ;keep ms byte of result ldaa ctemp ;sign extend to 16 bits addd 0,X ;add Injector_Map [Index-1] std _Stepper_Desired_Position pulb ;remove the rest of x from stack t_end #endasm } Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate The CIM Centre Address: CIM Centre Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Swinburne University Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 PO Box 218 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 WWW: http://cim.mm.swin.edu.au/ Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 10:37:20 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA25663; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:33:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA25649; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:33:47 -0400 Received: by basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk (MX V4.1 VAX) id 67; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:33:35 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:33:34 +0100 From: pmc1eng@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk To: DIY_EFI Message-ID: <00996C67.B70ACCE0.67@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk> Subject: Introduction Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello everybody! I'm a Portuguese student completing the final year of Automobile Engineering at Bolton Institute - England. I learnt about this mailing list in the DIY_EFI homepage, and although my knowledge of electronics (programming;PCB building;decoding;etc,etc) is rather low, I'll be glad to help with queries about other aspects of car/ engine tchnology. At the moment I'm gathering info for my graduating project : The influence of a dynamic air intake in the behaviour of a road car EFI. Does anybody knows about relevant info ? Many thanks in advance ! Pedro Costa (MadMax) E-mail: pmc1eng@bolton.ac.uk From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 10:55:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA25699; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:50:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA25685; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:50:40 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA04642 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:50:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 06:50:31 -0400 Message-ID: <950922065031_105867982@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-21 14:54:35 EDT, you write: >Here's some info from their flyer/ads: > >Simple Digital Systems EM-1 >If You have ever cursed and struggled with one of those PC programmable >engine management systems and thought there must be a better way, well >now there it. Its called SDS EM-1. > >- SDS is the easiest digital management system to install and program >on the market today - period >- No high priced software to purchase of licensing agreements to sign >- Full sensor diagnostics available in real time >- Crank triggered, fully programmable ignition with optional knock control >- SDS needs no laptop or PC for programming > > Hi. I would really be interested in any information you might have on this system. I haven't heard of it before. Thanks! Bonn From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 17:30:42 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA26912; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:27:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from vnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA26898; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:27:04 -0400 Received: from tdata (tdata.vnet.net) by vnet.net with SMTP id AA23718 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for < diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu>); Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:26:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199509221726.AA23718@vnet.net> Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 13:00:55 EDT From: tdata@vnet.net (Jim Santoro) To: diy_efi X-Mailer: PMMail v1.1 UNREGISTERED SHAREWARE Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I came across the PC based efi files on the DIY Web site. However there are no links to the schematic files. Does anyone know where they are? Thanks, Jim From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 18:53:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA27529; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 18:48:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA27515; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:48:29 -0400 From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Received: from pandora ([13.250.20.7]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14672(4)>; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:48:07 PDT Received: from by pandora (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AB24527; Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:02:29 EDT X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 22-Sep-1995 13:33:30 -0600; at X-SO-AREA-HUB.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 22-Sep-1995 14:36:52 -0400; at X-WB-NGM-MIME.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 22-Sep-1995 13:54:49 -0600; at X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:40:29 PDT To: DIY_EFI Subject: FW: SDS information requests Message-Id: <"<39FA62308175657C>39FA62308175657C@X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX"@-SMF-> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu | <*> | <*>Hi. | <*> | <*>I would really be interested in any information you might have on this | <*>system. I haven't heard of it before. | <*> | <*>Thanks! | <*> | <*>Bonn | | | Anyone who wants info on the SDS system, please email me direct. I'm | getting packages to send out via snail mail with all the info, | including the manual for setting up the system. Very neat. Talk to | ya' all later! | | Bradley Miller | Xerox Business Services, Kansas City | Midwest Shelby Dodge Club Inc. | Email: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com | Alternate: Brad2dbone@aol.com | From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 19:24:23 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA27798; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:20:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA27784; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:20:33 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:20:10 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.1; from fridman@localhost) id ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:20:11 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:20:11 -0600 Message-Id: <199509221920.NAA29013@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: PC EFI www pages Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > I came across the PC based efi files on the DIY Web site. However there are > no links to the schematic files. Does anyone know where they are? > Thanks, > Jim I'm in the process of updating these files. Check back on Saturday;) For all the new members of diy_efi, the WWW page is: http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~fridman/diy_efi. RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle (FOR SALE) fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 19:37:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA27935; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 19:33:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA27921; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:33:40 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA19182 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 22 Sep 95 12:33:22 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA28965; Fri, 22 Sep 95 12:33:20 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA09244; Fri, 22 Sep 95 14:33:19 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12558; Fri, 22 Sep 95 14:29:39 CDT Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 14:29:39 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509221929.AA12558@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: SDS information requests Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Brad, Could you send the info on the SDS system. Thanks, Tom Walter 1715 Woods Blvd Round Rock, TX. 78681 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 22 20:25:14 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA28293; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 20:18:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA28279; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 16:18:00 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA01242 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 22 Sep 95 13:17:50 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA29817; Fri, 22 Sep 95 13:17:48 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA11958; Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:17:47 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA12636; Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:14:08 CDT Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:14:08 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509222014.AA12636@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: SDS information requests Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Brad, > > Could you send the info on the SDS system. > [rest snipped of my previous post snipped!] Arrrrgggg! Right after Brad posted that note to email him direct, I hit "reply to sender" on my Sun workstation which grabs the DIY_EFI address and blasted the response to all on the list. Sorry about that! TGIF! Tom Walter Austin, TX. (OK, really Round Rock, TX - but no one knows where that is!) From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 23 04:02:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA02514; Sat, 23 Sep 1995 03:57:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA02500; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 23:57:37 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:57:13 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.1; from fridman@localhost) id ; Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:57:16 -0600 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:57:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199509230357.VAA00726@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: efi from an at bus plug in board Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > To all those interested in my PC-based EFI controller schematic, software and > > supporting techie info. I'm planning to put together a zipfile with > > everything needed to get it up and running with minimal trouble. I will > > either place it at an FTP site or uuencode it and send it to people on > > request. In any case, I will be away until 8/14 so be patient, I will make > > it availble when I return. Thanks for all the interest. > > So what ever happened to this? I don't think I missed any mail from > DIY-EFI. 8^> > > --> Bob Valentine <-- > --> ravalent@liii.com <-- > "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" > I have set up Al Lipper's PC EFI information on the diy_efi www home pages. The URL is http://www.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~fridman/diy_efi. The PC EFI pages are in projects/PC_EFI. Dave Morrill's schematic of the O2 LED meter is also there along with John S Gwynne's 68HC000 board. I also added a "Component Information" category with a description of the 67f687 chip and some micro controller FAQs. Does anyone want to volunteer to organize and keep track of the "EFI books and publications" page? If you are working on project and want to share the details with the rest of the diy_efi mailing list, please let me know. I would like to see more people in the "DIY_EFI Members" section;) Your suggestions are always welcome. RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle (FOR SALE) fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Sep 24 19:32:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA11529; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 19:08:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dub-img-5.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA11515; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 15:08:33 -0400 Received: by dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA05904; Sun, 24 Sep 1995 15:08:18 -0400 Date: 24 Sep 95 15:07:00 EDT From: "Roger S. Cohen" <72772.2212@compuserve.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: index Message-ID: <950924190700_72772.2212_EHL175-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu index diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Sep 25 22:20:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA15372; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:58:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA15355; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:53:14 -0400 From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Received: from pandora ([13.250.20.7]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14497(6)>; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 14:52:56 PDT Received: from x-wb-ngm-mime.cinops.xerox.com by pandora (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27995; Mon, 25 Sep 95 18:07:26 EDT X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 25-Sep-1995 16:48:36 -0600; at X-SO-AREA-HUB.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 25-Sep-1995 17:53:37 -0400; at X-WB-NGM-MIME.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 25-Sep-1995 17:09:26 -0600; at X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 13:54:48 PDT To: DIY_EFI Subject: SDS Message-Id: <"<952B67308175657C>952B67308175657C@X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX"@-SMF-> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Again . . thanks for everyone who replied wanting information. I'm getting information together and sending it . . . and if you've missed out, please email me with your snail mail address and I'll get you information. As a bonus . . . . depending upon how you look at it . . . I'm also sending you our newsletter. A very good bonus . . . in my opinion. I don't know how many of you will actually need it, or actually even drive cars like them, but it's always worth a shot. See ya' all later! Bradley Miller Xerox Business Services, Kansas City, MO USA Midwest Shelby Dodge Auto Club Inc. Email: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Alternate: Brad2dbone@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 26 17:40:46 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA18703; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:25:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA18686; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:23:53 -0400 Received: by bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09357; Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:23:03 PDT Received: from bchgate.bchydro.bc.ca by bchnetgw via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma009351; Tue Sep 26 10:22:52 1995 Received: by BCHydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28526; Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:22:47 PDT Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:22:47 PDT Message-Id: <9509261722.AA28526@BCHydro.bc.ca> Received: from unknown by bchgate via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma028338; Tue Sep 26 10:22:32 1995 X-Sender: beggs@bchgate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: John.Beggs@BCHydro.bc.ca (John Beggs) Subject: Re: SDS X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu If you are sending to Canada, I would appreciate a copy: John Beggs, BC Hydro, Podium A03, 6911 Southpoint Drive, Burnaby, BC, V3N 4X8 Canada Thanks. >Again . . thanks for everyone who replied wanting information. I'm >getting information together and sending it . . . and if you've missed >out, please email me with your snail mail address and I'll get you From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Sep 26 21:57:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA02658; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 21:48:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA02644; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:48:02 -0400 Received: by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA28636; Tue, 26 Sep 1995 17:47:51 -0400 Date: 26 Sep 95 17:47:08 EDT From: "Roger S. Cohen" <72772.2212@compuserve.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: index request Message-ID: <950926214708_72772.2212_EHL67-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu index diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 05:12:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA05734; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:04:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA05716; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 01:04:17 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma021652; Wed Sep 27 15:00:13 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma014726; Wed Sep 27 14:59:27 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id OAA17609 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:59:25 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199509270459.OAA17609@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: [Q] EFI computers on different engines To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:59:24 +1000 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2057 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi there, A freind of mine is on a budget and wants to use a 2nd hand EFI computer from the wrecker's and adapt it to suit an EFI engine he has (for which no computer is available). Essentially the particular computer he has is a nippon denso to suit a Mazda MA engine (Not really relevant), BUT it has a trapdoor type air flow meter, air temp, water temp etc inputs and is analogue (early 80s technology). He wants me to make up a box that tweaks various inputs to get the fuelling correct. My understanding of these trapdoor type systems is that almost all of the fuelling calculation is based on the trapdoor potentiometer, along with idle curcuit (switched by AFM or throttle position), accellerator pump type enrichment (again from throttle position), cold start enrichment (Water temp sensor) and air temperature sensor (for air density) Questions: i/ If I have a MAP sensor and alter this signal ONLY and feed it into the trapdoor potentiometer input on the ECU (ie use a MAP instead of a trapdoor AFM), and leave all of the other sensors STOCK (unmodified), is this system likely to function successfully? The concept I had planned to utilise here was to have a series of LM3914 bar graph drivers arranged with some pots to make a 'graphic equaliser' so the input voltage can make a custom tailored output: _____ __________________ |MAP| | LM 3914 (x3) | | |---------| | |___| |__________________| | | | | | | | }=pot that varies output between }_ }_ }_ }_ }_ }_ }_ 0&5v when that output is on. | | | | | | | |__|__|__|__|__|__|____________> Output voltage to ECU I figure that this should allow a MAP sensor to approximate a trapdoor AFM, as it is essentially fully adjustable. Assume for this question that the computer is off a similar type of engine. ii/ Before I invest un-nessecary time in this project, am I wasting effort trying to do this? How hard is it likely to be? Anyone tried this? Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 09:45:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA06084; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:37:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailhub.hkstar.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA06070; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 05:37:39 -0400 Received: from star90.hkstar.com (star90.hkstar.com [202.82.10.90]) by mailhub.hkstar.com (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA28885 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:37:26 +0800 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:37:26 +0800 Message-Id: <199509270937.RAA28885@mailhub.hkstar.com> X-Sender: aitech@mail.hkstar.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: aitech@hkstar.com Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unscribe From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 14:19:48 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA07157; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:17:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA07143; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:17:14 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA00855 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 27 Sep 95 07:17:02 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA07655; Wed, 27 Sep 95 07:17:00 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA08058; Wed, 27 Sep 95 09:16:59 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA15824; Wed, 27 Sep 95 09:13:15 CDT Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 09:13:15 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509271413.AA15824@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: [Q] EFI computers on different engines Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: Craig Pugsley > He wants me to make up a box that tweaks various inputs to get the > fuelling correct. [rest snipped just to save bandwidth] Will this be an analog box to precondition the signals? Have you thought about a uC box to replace the original? Have you done any uC work? [wants to remove air box vane meter... and replace it with a map sensor] The early Nippon Denso should be the BOSCH L jetronic analog design. Contact switches for idle and full throttle should be on the throttle body. If the air box is an 7 pin style, two of the pins are just for a relay contact to turn the fuel pump on. Safety feature that if the engine stalls, no air flow, hence shutting down the fuel pump. I'd look at using a oil pressure switch to control that function if you replace the air box. Safety first! > > My understanding of these trapdoor type systems is > that almost all of the fuelling calculation is based on the trapdoor > potentiometer, along with idle curcuit (switched by AFM or throttle > position), Yes. Ideal would be to "bench test" the donor computer, with all the parts to get an idea of the functions of how much the air vane position modifies the amount of fuel injected. > accellerator pump type enrichment (again from throttle position), I take it you mean WOT (wide open throttle) switch. > cold start enrichment (Water temp sensor) and air temperature > sensor (for air density) If it is a early analog box there should be two water sensors: one for normal running, the other is the "cold start-time switch" to control the enrichment injector for cold starting. Later uC systems have done away with the enrichment injector, just open the standard injectors on cold starts! > Questions: > i/ If I have a MAP sensor and alter this signal ONLY and feed it into > the trapdoor potentiometer input on the ECU (ie use a MAP instead of a trapdoor > AFM), and leave all of the other sensors STOCK (unmodified), is this > system likely to function successfully? If possible, you may want to make a series of measurements to get an approximate idea of the voltage vs. airflow from the air box from the donor system. Once you know that function, then it would be NICE to have an actual system to compare manifold pressure vs. air vane voltage readings. This should give an idea of the function between the two. PROBLEM: If the engine has a radical camshaft, with much pulsing of the intake track it will be more difficult to monitor the air with a MAP sensor. In that case I would be tempted to look at adding a throttle position sensor (linear pot on the throttle shaft) to give a more repeatable idea of the throttle position. [Throttle position AND a MAP sensor will give a better idea of the engine's fuel requirements]. > The concept I had planned to utilise here was to have a series of LM3914 > bar graph drivers arranged with some pots to make a 'graphic equaliser' > so the input voltage can make a custom tailored output: > > _____ __________________ > |MAP| | LM 3914 (x3) | > | |---------| | > |___| |__________________| > | | | | | | | }=pot that varies output between > }_ }_ }_ }_ }_ }_ }_ 0&5v when that output is on. > | | | | | | | > |__|__|__|__|__|__|____________> Output voltage to ECU > > I figure that this should allow a MAP sensor to approximate a trapdoor > AFM, as it is essentially fully adjustable. > Assume for this question that the computer is off a similar type of > engine. Neat way to do it! ;-) But fails on the KISS (Keep it simple, Silly) principle. Once you know the function, it maybe easier to use a op-amp or two. Function would be a matter of air vane vs. throttle position (or just MAP, if the cam is mild). For initial testing, may not be a bad idea to hook up a 3 wire oxygen sensor and monitor it to ensure you are usually in the rich conditions. Nothing worse then helping out a friend, only to melt down their engine from too lean conditions. [I'd love to have a wide range sensor for road testing... just out of my budget, too!] There are those on this list who are much better qualified than I, but thought I would at least toss out a few ideas to get the ball rolling. Cheers, Tom Walter Austin, TX. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 14:36:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA07281; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:32:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA07267; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:32:37 -0400 Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA28955; Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:32:24 EDT Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:32:24 EDT Message-Id: <9509271432.AA28955@oasys.dt.navy.mil> From: "Robert Gallant" To: DIY_EFI Subject: Modifing O2 output Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Howdy all; I need to modify the output of my O2 sensor (specifically I need to drop the voltage my computer sees from the sensor). I know what you are thinking, don't ask. This is hopefully only a temporary fix. I will describe the whole system when it is working correctly. Anyway what would the wisdom of the net suggest: 1) An op amp set up to do the division. or 2) Just a voltage divide made up of resistors. If (2) what should I limit the current through the divider to. Thanks for the info. Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 15:12:44 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA07616; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:08:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA07601; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:08:16 -0400 From: tphilli5@ford.com Message-Id: <199509271508.LAA07601@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:08:04 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:08:04 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:08:04 -0400 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-0); Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:08:04 -0400 To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:14:03 -0400 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unscribe From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 16:17:11 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA07761; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:13:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eros.britain.eu.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA07747; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:13:19 -0400 Received: from impmh.uucp by eros.britain.eu.net with UUCP id ; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:12:07 +0100 Received: by impmh (5.45/5.17) id AA23028; Wed, 27 Sep 95 16:47:23 BST Received: by benjy (5.45/5.17) id AA05755; Wed, 27 Sep 95 16:47:22 BST From: mpm@impmh.uucp (Martin Mayhead) Message-Id: <9509271547.AA05755@benjy> Subject: index diy_efi To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 16:47:22 BST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu index diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 16:30:51 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA07891; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:26:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mercury.Sun.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA07877; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 12:26:54 -0400 Received: from snail.Sun.COM by mercury.Sun.COM (Sun.COM) id JAA11812; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:26:40 -0700 Received: from UK.Sun.COM (sunuk) by snail.Sun.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10418; Wed, 27 Sep 95 09:24:32 PDT Received: from midsun.UK.Sun.COM by UK.Sun.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4-sd.fkk110) id AA05143; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:24:44 +0100 Received: from discovery.uk.sun.com by midsun.UK.Sun.COM (5.0/SMI-5.0-sec(uk - sec)) id AA25956; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:24:43 +0100 Received: by discovery.uk.sun.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA04939; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:23:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:23:31 +0100 From: Roger.Collier@UK.Sun.COM (Roger Collier) Message-Id: <9509271623.AA04939@discovery.uk.sun.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Modifing O2 output X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I expect a 1megohm potentiometer will be OK. You can tweak it so the computer thinks it's stoich while the sensor thinks it's at max power. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 17:26:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA08077; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:22:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from nrcnet.nrc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA08063; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:22:28 -0400 Received: from DECNET-MAIL by NRCNET.NRC.CA (PMDF #12639) id <01HVRT2V6IY88WWRD0@NRCNET.NRC.CA>; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:19 EST Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:19 EST From: Peter Orban Subject: Re: Modifing O2 output To: DIY_EFI Message-id: <01HVRT2V6IY88WWRD0@NRCNET.NRC.CA> X-Envelope-to: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X-VMS-To: NRCNET::IN%"DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > I need to modify the output of my O2 sensor (specifically I need to drop the > voltage my computer sees from the sensor). > > I know what you are thinking, don't ask. This is hopefully only a temporary > fix. I will describe the whole system when it is working correctly. Oxygen sensors on production engines are pretty much on/off (lean/rich) type sensors. I would expect that the sensor signal processing starts with some kind of comparator in an EFI control unit. Having that said, if you still want to divide your signal, I would suggest a high input impedance circuit as the internal resistance of a ox sensor is quite high (several 100 kohm, and it varies with temperature, age, etc.). Good luck, Peter -- Peter Orban National Research Council of Canada Internet: peter.orban@nrc.ca From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 17:45:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA08487; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:38:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gatekeeper.nsc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA08473; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:38:16 -0400 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by gatekeeper.nsc.com (5.65/fma-120691) with SMTP; id AA26509 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:37:54 -0700 Received: from gpo.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA04183 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:37:53 -0700 Received: from SPF.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by gpo.nsc.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA05136; Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:33:48 -0700 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 10:33:47 -0700 Message-Id: <9509271733.AA05136@gpo.nsc.com> From: dmorrill%spf.dnet@gpo.nsc.com (DAVE MORRILL HPL DESIGN ENG 207-775-8574) To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu"%GPO.dnet@gpo.nsc.com Cc: DMORRILL@gpo.nsc.com Subject: Modifying O2 output Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello, Someone suggested a 1 Meg potentiometer, I agree. You may want to add an op-amp (lm324) in a voltage follower configuration before and after the pot to buffer it. Keep it simple and try the just the pot without the op-amp first. A tip to keep the pot from moving from vibration etc. once you have it set where you want it is to put a dab of paint or nail polish where the shaft meets the body of the pot. Best, Dave. From: GPO::"owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" 27-SEP-1995 11:23:57.43 To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu CC: Subj: Modifing O2 output Howdy all; I need to modify the output of my O2 sensor (specifically I need to drop the voltage my computer sees from the sensor). I know what you are thinking, don't ask. This is hopefully only a temporary fix. I will describe the whole system when it is working correctly. Anyway what would the wisdom of the net suggest: 1) An op amp set up to do the division. or 2) Just a voltage divide made up of resistors. If (2) what should I limit the current through the divider to. Thanks for the info. Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 18:11:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA08704; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 18:09:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from tfsbldg7.tfs.varian.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA08690; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:09:49 -0400 From: david.atchley@seb.varian.com Received: by tfsbldg7.tfs.varian.com; Wed, 27 Sep 95 11:09:38 PDT Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 11:09:36 PDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Subject: index diy_efi X-Incognito-SN: 474 X-Incognito-Format: VERSION=2.01a ENCRYPTED=NO Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu index diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 19:42:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA09284; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 19:37:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from alpha.xerox.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA09270; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:37:12 -0400 From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Received: by alpha.xerox.com via suspension id <16665(3)>; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 11:47:38 PDT Received: from pandora ([13.250.20.7]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16499(2)>; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 10:07:39 PDT Received: from x-wb-ngm-mime.cinops.xerox.com by pandora (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02418; Wed, 27 Sep 95 13:13:44 EDT X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 27-Sep-1995 11:55:44 -0600; at X-SO-AREA-HUB.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Transferred: 27-Sep-1995 13:00:38 -0400; at X-WB-NGM-MIME.XEROX X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 27-Sep-1995 12:16:06 -0600; at X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:01:52 PDT To: DIY_EFI Subject: Hmm . . . suggestions on Chrysler fuel injection Message-Id: <"<058469308175657C>058469308175657C@X-SO-4260-MS1.XEROX"@-SMF-> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I've gotten some ideas from Chrysler engineer/racer on how to make a fuel injection setup for my car. Currently I'm running 2 - 40mm DCOE Weber Carbs. It runs like a bat out of hell - - but as usual - - I'm looking for more. Here's the skinny on his suggestions: Get a '88 one-peice intake manifold Use wiring harness from '86 Shelby Charger (mine's an '83 Shelby Charger non-turbo) Use wiring harness overlay from Chrysler (?? part number - - getting that info) Use 1986 Omni GLHS logic module System will have a 46mm TBI with appropriate TPS and AIS Of course I'll need all the goodies, like fuel pump/tank/rails/wiring Basically, this setup is just leaving the turbo out of the equation - - in it's place I'm going to biuld a 2.5L, Lunatic cam, Hooker header, 10:1 compression motor. Later on, I may want to go to turbo charging . . . but at that stage I'll probably go aftermarket, as I want to keep the higher compression for more low end torque. (Probably back to 9-9.5:1) Any suggestions? He said he'd give me the logic module, and the rest of the stuff shouldn't be over $200 from the boneyard. Hmm . . . . interesting prospects . . . Later! Bradley Miller Xerox Business Services, Kansas City, MO USA Midwest Shelby Dodge Automobile Club Inc. Email: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Alternate: Brad2dbone@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 19:58:43 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA09328; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 19:52:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gatekeeper.nsc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA09314; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:52:03 -0400 Received: from nsc.nsc.com by gatekeeper.nsc.com (5.65/fma-120691) with SMTP; id AA02883 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 27 Sep 95 12:51:49 -0700 Received: from gpo.nsc.com by nsc.nsc.com (5.65/1.34) with SMTP id AA11631 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 27 Sep 95 12:51:47 -0700 Received: from SPF.DECnet MAIL11D_V3 by gpo.nsc.com (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA10519; Wed, 27 Sep 95 12:45:32 -0700 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 95 12:45:31 -0700 Message-Id: <9509271945.AA10519@gpo.nsc.com> From: dmorrill%spf.dnet@gpo.nsc.com (DAVE MORRILL HPL DESIGN ENG 207-775-8574) To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu"%GPO.dnet@gpo.nsc.com Cc: DMORRILL@gpo.nsc.com Subject: PC efi board schematics Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello, I downloaded Al Lipper's PC efi project. I can't read the eps or the cad files, using viewers that work on other eps files (ghostview). Excel 5.0 won't read the dxf cad files. Has anyone else had this problem? Al, can you send out the files in GIF format even though the quality is bad? I am very interested in this project and am planning to develop a derivative of this myself. Thanks, Al, for sharing you work and data. Best, Dave. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 20:34:23 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA09427; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 20:27:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA09413; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:27:20 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:27:35 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.1; from fridman@localhost) id ; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:26:42 -0600 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 14:26:42 -0600 Message-Id: <199509272026.OAA17124@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: PC efi board schematics Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Hello, > I downloaded Al Lipper's PC efi project. I can't read the eps or the > cad files, using viewers that work on other eps files (ghostview). Excel 5.0 > won't read the dxf cad files. The files are zipped. You need to unzip the zip file you get when you click on the link to get the individual P.S. files. If you did this and still could not view the individual files, then can you tell me the errors you got when viewing? I have no problems printing the diagrams or viewing with ghostivew. The unzip program is public domain software as far as I know. RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 20:44:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA09473; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 20:38:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dione.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA09459; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:38:05 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by VCA.GI.COM (PMDF V5.0-5 #7516) id <01HVRTPA14IOK1PFAL@VCA.GI.COM> for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <3069B615@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 13:38:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-id: <3069B615@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 53 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu It depends on the output impedance of the O2 sensor. Try a 100K ohm load. If the voltage drops significantly, then I would go with an op amp with a high impedance input. Personally, I would use the op amp always; this also allows you to easily add some lowpass filtering. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- | From: owner-diy_efi-outgoing | To: DIY_EFI | Subject: Modifying O2 output | Date: Wednesday, September 27, 1995 10:32AM | | Howdy all; | | I need to modify the output of my O2 sensor (specifically I need to drop the | | voltage my computer sees from the sensor). | | I know what you are thinking, don't ask. This is hopefully only a temporary | | fix. I will describe the whole system when it is working correctly. | | Anyway what would the wisdom of the net suggest: | | 1) An op amp set up to do the division. | | or | | 2) Just a voltage divide made up of resistors. | | If (2) what should I limit the current through the divider to. | | Thanks for the info. | | Rob | gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil | John S Gwynne Gwynne.1@osu.edu ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ _ T h e O h i o - S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7297 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 21:50:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA09796; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 21:46:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spot.Colorado.EDU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA09782; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:46:36 -0400 Received: (from ciciora@localhost) by spot.Colorado.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.12/CNS-3.6) id PAA13633; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:46:20 -0600 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 15:46:20 -0600 (MDT) From: CICIORA STEVEN JOSEP To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output In-Reply-To: <3069B615@gismtpgate.gi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 27 Sep 1995, Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS) wrote: > > It depends on the output impedance of the O2 sensor. Try a 100K ohm load. > If the voltage drops significantly, then I would go with an op amp with a > high impedance input. Personally, I would use the op amp always; this also > allows you to easily add some lowpass filtering. > > Bryan Zublin > bzublin@gi.com > ---------- I think I remember reading somewhere (this list? the hotrod list?) that one way to get a little bit more liniarity out of an 02 sensor is to apply (something like) 0.6 v to it and measure the current into or out of it. I also seem to remember seeing a circuit that will switch a load resistor (or two) accross the output of the o2 sensor. Since the output impediance of the O2 sensor is dependent on temperature, mabe this was a way to see if it was warmed up, or to measure exhaust temperature. I always thought that a ballpark way to measure exhaust temperature might be to measure the current going to the heater (on heated O2 sensors, of course). Anyway... if the above two situations are the case for you, than a voltage divider wont work. I know you said not to ask, but what are you trying to do? I've thought about what you mention, and I'm not sure you can fool the computer into thinking that it is a little bit leaner than it really is. From what little bit of looking I've done at the output of O2 sensors, it is usually much above .6 (.7?) volts (like 1 volt) or much below (like .2 volts). Almost like a switch. Hope I provided more insight than confusion! -Steven ciciora From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Sep 27 22:12:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA09884; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 22:08:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA09870; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 18:08:40 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0sy4dL-000DZmC; Wed, 27 Sep 95 17:07 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output To: DIY_EFI Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 17:07:19 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "CICIORA STEVEN JOSEP" at Sep 27, 95 03:46:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1282 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu CICIORA STEVEN JOSEP writes: > > Anyway... if the above two situations are the case for you, than a > voltage divider wont work. I know you said not to ask, but what are you > trying to do? I've thought about what you mention, and I'm not sure you > can fool the computer into thinking that it is a little bit leaner than > it really is. From what little bit of looking I've done at the output of > O2 sensors, it is usually much above .6 (.7?) volts (like 1 volt) or much > below (like .2 volts). Almost like a switch. I don't know exactly how our electronics guy built the circuit, but I did use a circuit that shifted EGO output by almost 1V (adjustable). This let me run closed loop around about 600mv, which was about 0.90-0.94 lambda with the EGO's I was using. It worked great for what I was doing, but i did go through about 6 oxygen sensors before I found a pair that behaved like I wanted, and had a hard time convincing my presentation judge at NGV Challenge '93 that it really worked. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 03:17:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA10360; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 03:15:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA10346; Wed, 27 Sep 1995 23:15:51 -0400 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma006644; Thu Sep 28 13:14:00 1995 Received: from shiva.trl.oz.au(137.147.20.34) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma008709; Thu Sep 28 13:13:00 1995 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id NAA07154; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:12:56 +1000 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199509280312.NAA07154@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: [Q] EFI computers on different engines To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:12:55 +1000 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9509271413.AA15824@roadster.autotest> from "thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)" at Sep 27, 95 09:13:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 5235 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ****************************************************************** * FIRSTLY A GENERAL QUESTION: * * DOES ANYONE HAVE A WIRING DIAGRAM FOR A TOYOTA FITTED WITH A * * 3T GTEU 1.8l Twincam turbo? I HAVE A COMPUTER (AGAIN ANALOG) * * TO SUIT THIS ENGINE, AND AM WONDERING WHAT IT'S EXTERNAL * * CONNECTIONS TO THE SENSORS ARE SO I CAN MAKE SOME MEASUREMENTS * ****************************************************************** Thanks for your reply Tom, interesting reading. > > He wants me to make up a box that tweaks various inputs to get the > > fuelling correct. > > [rest snipped just to save bandwidth] > > Will this be an analog box to precondition the signals? That was the initial idea (a bit easier to fiddle with rather than having to 90% design a digital system before anything works). See below for what I intend to do now.. > Have you thought about a uC box to replace the original? > Have you done any uC work? I am about 1/3 of the way thru designing a microcontroller version (8051 family-the 332 stuff is a bit too advanced for me :-) However, he wants a cheap and quick system up & going, hence trying to use an OEM box and tweak it's inputs to make it behave appropriately. Besides, the extra experience with oem boxes will help my understanding for doing my own from scratch. > [wants to remove air box vane meter... and replace it with > a map sensor] > > The early Nippon Denso should be the BOSCH L jetronic analog > design. Contact switches for idle and full throttle should be on > the throttle body. Yes, it's operation is virtually identical to an L jet. I got a generic EFI repair book (lots of manufacturers, condensed info of connections, voltages etc). Happily, it seems that these ecus are virtually identical, with the diagram in the book conveiniently matching what I've got on hand. I got my hands on this box last night, it's got 5 analog ICs (Custom.. consecutive part numbers), several dozen C+R, a few transistors and a diode or two. There is about 10 resistors on PCB pins, which I thought was intriguing.. Then I realised these would almost certainly be the calibration resistors. Hmm.. (light globe above head comes on) I could make up a panel with a pot for each resistor, do a bit of reverse engineering and figure out what each one does - so I should be able to come up with something in a few weeks rather than #*&$ months/years! If anyone is interested I'll keep the group informed of any progress. OTOH, I've also got a digital ECU (from an 89 Mazda MX6 2.2l non turbo), so if the inputs to that could be tweaked it might self learn enough to work quite well. An importer of japanese engines here have piles of 2nd hand computers (at $US 15 each!! :-) and pumps, injectors etc. So, if I can get a workable solution with one particular type of computer that's in ready supply I could sell about 1/2 a dozen straight away (a few freinds are displaying keen interest in EFI). > > My understanding of these trapdoor type systems is > > that almost all of the fuelling calculation is based on the trapdoor > > potentiometer, along with idle curcuit (switched by AFM or throttle > > position), > > Yes. Ideal would be to "bench test" the donor computer, with all the > parts to get an idea of the functions of how much the air vane > position modifies the amount of fuel injected. Exactly what I plan on doing. I've already got a set of readings from an aftermarket computer tuned for the sort of engine I'm trying to run (Mazda 12A turbo rotary), so I've got a half decent start point. > > Questions: > > i/ If I have a MAP sensor and alter this signal ONLY and feed it into > > the trapdoor potentiometer input on the ECU (ie use a MAP instead of a trapdoor > > AFM), and leave all of the other sensors STOCK (unmodified), is this > > system likely to function successfully? > > If possible, you may want to make a series of measurements to get an > approximate idea of the voltage vs. airflow from the air box from the > donor system. Once you know that function, then it would be NICE to > have an actual system to compare manifold pressure vs. air vane voltage > readings. This should give an idea of the function between the two. Hmm.. funny you should mention that ;-) I was planning to get a throttle body, trapdoor sensor on one side, MAP on the vacuum side, Vacuum cleaner/leaf blower to simulate the engine. Then I'll vary the throttle and the vacuum to simulate different engine conditions and take some readings from the AFM and from the MAP. If there is a straight line corellation then an opamp solution would be adequate, but if it's a curve then I think the LM3914 solution would offer a much better degree of tunability. (I HATE non linear analog electronics) Regarding the pulsing in the manifold, I think that could be smoothed electronically or with a small damping chamber in the vacuum line. > There are those on this list who are much better qualified than I, > but thought I would at least toss out a few ideas to get the ball > rolling. Hey, sometimes the 'grass roots' approach is easier to understand than the hi tech approach. Your input is very much appreciated. Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 08:09:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA10811; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:08:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix8.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA10797; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 04:08:39 -0400 Received: from by ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id BAA05654; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 01:08:26 -0700 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 01:08:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199509280808.BAA05654@ix8.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > >CICIORA STEVEN JOSEP writes: >> >> Anyway... if the above two situations are the case for you, than a >> voltage divider wont work. I know you said not to ask, but what are you >> trying to do? I've thought about what you mention, and I'm not sure you >> can fool the computer into thinking that it is a little bit leaner than >> it really is. From what little bit of looking I've done at the output of >> O2 sensors, it is usually much above .6 (.7?) volts (like 1 volt) or much >> below (like .2 volts). Almost like a switch. > >I don't know exactly how our electronics guy built the circuit, >but I did use a circuit that shifted EGO output by almost 1V >(adjustable). This let me run closed loop around about 600mv, >which was about 0.90-0.94 lambda with the EGO's I was using. It worked >great for what I was doing, but i did go through about 6 oxygen sensors >before I found a pair that behaved like I wanted, and had a hard time >convincing my presentation judge at NGV Challenge '93 that it really >worked. > >-- >Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu >http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 >------------------------------------- ------------------------------ >68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd > I BELIVE THE ECU WILL AUTOCALIBRATE TO COMPENSATE FOR THE REDUCED VOLTAGE OUTPUT BELOW A CERTAIN LEVEL YOU WILL GET AN ERROR CODE. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 08:09:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA10789; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 08:06:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA10775; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 04:06:03 -0400 Received: from by ix.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id BAA29984; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 01:05:48 -0700 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 01:05:48 -0700 Message-Id: <199509280805.BAA29984@ix.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: Re: [Q] EFI computers on different engines To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > >****************************************************************** >* FIRSTLY A GENERAL QUESTION: * >* DOES ANYONE HAVE A WIRING DIAGRAM FOR A TOYOTA FITTED WITH A * >* 3T GTEU 1.8l Twincam turbo? I HAVE A COMPUTER (AGAIN ANALOG) * >* TO SUIT THIS ENGINE, AND AM WONDERING WHAT IT'S EXTERNAL * >* CONNECTIONS TO THE SENSORS ARE SO I CAN MAKE SOME MEASUREMENTS * >****************************************************************** > >Thanks for your reply Tom, interesting reading. > >> > He wants me to make up a box that tweaks various inputs to get the >> > fuelling correct. >> >> [rest snipped just to save bandwidth] >> >> Will this be an analog box to precondition the signals? > >That was the initial idea (a bit easier to fiddle with rather than >having to 90% design a digital system before anything works). >See below for what I intend to do now.. > >> Have you thought about a uC box to replace the original? >> Have you done any uC work? > >I am about 1/3 of the way thru designing a microcontroller version (8051 >family-the 332 stuff is a bit too advanced for me :-) >However, he wants a cheap and quick system up & going, hence trying to >use an OEM box and tweak it's inputs to make it behave appropriately. >Besides, the extra experience with oem boxes will help my understanding >for doing my own from scratch. > >> [wants to remove air box vane meter... and replace it with >> a map sensor] >> >> The early Nippon Denso should be the BOSCH L jetronic analog >> design. Contact switches for idle and full throttle should be on >> the throttle body. > >Yes, it's operation is virtually identical to an L jet. I got a generic >EFI repair book (lots of manufacturers, condensed info of connections, >voltages etc). Happily, it seems that these ecus are virtually >identical, with the diagram in the book conveiniently matching what I've >got on hand. > >I got my hands on this box last night, it's got 5 analog ICs (Custom.. >consecutive part numbers), several dozen C+R, a few transistors and a >diode or two. There is about 10 resistors on PCB pins, which I thought >was intriguing.. Then I realised these would almost certainly be the >calibration resistors. Hmm.. (light globe above head comes on) I could >make up a panel with a pot for each resistor, do a bit of reverse >engineering and figure out what each one does - so I should be able to >come up with something in a few weeks rather than #*&$ months/years! >If anyone is interested I'll keep the group informed of any progress. > >OTOH, I've also got a digital ECU (from an 89 Mazda MX6 2.2l non turbo), so >if the inputs to that could be tweaked it might self learn enough to >work quite well. > >An importer of japanese engines here have piles of 2nd hand computers >(at $US 15 each!! :-) and pumps, injectors etc. So, if I can get a workable >solution with one particular type of computer that's in ready supply I could >sell about 1/2 a dozen straight away (a few freinds are displaying keen >interest in EFI). > >> > My understanding of these trapdoor type systems is >> > that almost all of the fuelling calculation is based on the trapdoor >> > potentiometer, along with idle curcuit (switched by AFM or throttle >> > position), >> >> Yes. Ideal would be to "bench test" the donor computer, with all the >> parts to get an idea of the functions of how much the air vane >> position modifies the amount of fuel injected. > >Exactly what I plan on doing. I've already got a set of readings from an >aftermarket computer tuned for the sort of engine I'm trying to run >(Mazda 12A turbo rotary), so I've got a half decent start point. > >> > Questions: >> > i/ If I have a MAP sensor and alter this signal ONLY and feed it into >> > the trapdoor potentiometer input on the ECU (ie use a MAP instead of a trapdoor >> > AFM), and leave all of the other sensors STOCK (unmodified), is this >> > system likely to function successfully? >> >> If possible, you may want to make a series of measurements to get an >> approximate idea of the voltage vs. airflow from the air box from the >> donor system. Once you know that function, then it would be NICE to >> have an actual system to compare manifold pressure vs. air vane voltage >> readings. This should give an idea of the function between the two. > >Hmm.. funny you should mention that ;-) >I was planning to get a throttle body, trapdoor sensor on one side, MAP >on the vacuum side, Vacuum cleaner/leaf blower to simulate the engine. >Then I'll vary the throttle and the vacuum to simulate different engine >conditions and take some readings from the AFM and from the MAP. If >there is a straight line corellation then an opamp solution would be >adequate, but if it's a curve then I think the LM3914 solution would >offer a much better degree of tunability. (I HATE non linear analog >electronics) > >Regarding the pulsing in the manifold, I think that could be smoothed >electronically or with a small damping chamber in the vacuum line. > >> There are those on this list who are much better qualified than I, >> but thought I would at least toss out a few ideas to get the ball >> rolling. > >Hey, sometimes the 'grass roots' approach is easier to understand >than the hi tech approach. Your input is very much appreciated. > >Cheers, >Craig. > I THINK HYPERTEK USES A SIMILAR APPROACH ON FORDS TO IMPROVE PREFORMANCE BY THAT A MEAN A MICROPROCESSOR BASED DIGITAL SIGNAL PROCESSOR BETWEEN THE ECU AND ENGINE SENSORS AND CONTROLS IF I EVER BUILD ONE FOR MY 1988 2.8 L BUICK I WILL PROBABLY USE A PIC 16 MICROPROCESSOR WITH AN ERASE WINDOW THE BUICK USES A MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR OF BOSCHE DESIGN AND A MAP SENSOR NEWER GM CAR WITH THE SAME ENGINE NOLONGER USE THE MAF SENSOR. IWONDER HOW WELL THEY WORK WITHOUT IT? FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD IT REQUIRES MORE COMPUTING POWER TO CONTROL THE ENGINE WITHOUT IT IE CAN BE DONEWITH SIMPLE ANALOG ELECTRONICS LIKE YOU DESCRIBE IN YOUR LETTERS From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 10:48:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA11017; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 10:37:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA10999; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 06:31:16 -0400 Received: from kastor [134.169.34.8] by ra.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) with ESMTP id LAA18417 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:24:28 +0100 Received: from knick@localhost by kastor.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (8.6.10/tubsibr) id LAA22104 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:24:28 +0100 From: Jens Knickmeyer Message-Id: <199509281024.LAA22104@kastor.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de> Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 11:24:27 MET In-Reply-To: from "CICIORA STEVEN JOSEP" at Sep 27, 95 03:46:20 pm Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > I think I remember reading somewhere (this list? the hotrod list?) > that one way to get a little bit more liniarity out of an 02 sensor is to > apply (something like) 0.6 v to it and measure the current into or out of > it. I also seem to remember seeing a circuit that will switch a load >From a WWW page about O2 sensors, I got the following information: --> start of quotation <-- Almost always, the answer is no. You must be careful to not *apply* voltage to the sensor, but measuring it's output voltage is not harmful. As noted by other posters, a cheap voltmeter will not be accurate, but will cause no damage. This is *not* true if you try to measure the resistance of the sensor. Resistance measurements send voltage into a circuit and check the amount returning. --> end of quotation <-- So Steven's input confuses me a bit. May I apply voltage to an O2 sensor or not? Any inputs welcome. Jens From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 13:26:47 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA11564; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:18:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from interlock.lubrizol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA11546; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:17:48 -0400 From: mwc@lubrizol.com Received: by interlock.lubrizol.com id AA08875 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:16:10 -0400 Message-Id: <199509281316.AA08875@interlock.lubrizol.com> Received: by interlock.lubrizol.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:16:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 09:11:59 PDT Subject: injector sizing To: DIY_EFI X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi. I'm new to the EFI list. Excuse me if these questions are exhausted: I have a '84 928S with L-Jetronic. I'm interested in increasing performance, but my budget will allow only one step at a time. Before I add a hot cam, can I oversize my injectors without any negative effects? I think stock is 19 lb/hr, and I'd like 25 - 30 lb/hr. I would think that open-loop mode would run too rich; if I'm right, can it be adjusted on L-Jet? Where can I find / buy new Bosch injectors at a good price? Do all Bosch injectors have the same physical dimensions, so that I just need to determine supply? Much appreciated, Matt Carpenter E-mail: mwc@lubrizol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 14:01:21 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA12231; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:56:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA12180; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:56:30 -0400 Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA22271; Thu, 28 Sep 95 09:56:14 EDT Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 09:56:14 EDT Message-Id: <9509281356.AA22271@oasys.dt.navy.mil> From: "Robert Gallant" To: DIY_EFI Cc: gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > voltage divider wont work. I know you said not to ask, but what are you > trying to do? I've thought about what you mention, and I'm not sure you Thanks for all the replies about the O2 sensor. I think I'll try just a voltage divider with a total resistance of about 1Mohm. If that doesn't work correctly, I'll go with the op-amp or just run without the sensor (temporarily). I have the new Holley ProJection Di system on a supercharged '86 Mazda Rx7. The new Holley system is digital, comes with all sensors, and programmed with a laptop pc. The old Holley system was analog. The throttlebody is a 4bbl setup with four 65 lb/hr injectors and IAC. They have throttle body's from 600-1000 cfm and 45, 65 and larger injectors. The fuel pump is also different from the old system and is capable of delivering 400 lb/hr. The system measures TPS, RPM, MAP, O2, intake air temp, and water temp. The Di version also provides the capability to program spark advance maps (I'm not currently using that part of the system). The program lets you manipulate warm up enrichment, set idle speed, rev limit, and decel fuel cut timing. It has programmable maps for accel pump, injection volume, O2 trigger voltage, and ignition timing. The maps are 3D, with the x axis = RPM, z axis = load (MAP) on some and throttle position on other, and y axis = the variable parameter (example is injection volume). There are also two displays for monitoring the system. One shows the injection volume map. It numerically displays load, rpm, and injection volume and also shows the map with a pointer indicated where the engine is operating. The other is a numerical display that shows the output from all of the sensors plus: O2 sensor compensation, injection volume, injector duration, ignition advance, .... It looks as if a fair amount of thought went into the design of the system and has LOTS of tunability. Now the problem I ran into is that my car like to idle VERY rich and the computer only lets you set O2 trigger voltages up to 0.8v. The computer tries to adjust the O2 compensation to maintain the trigger voltage. As a result the car won't idle. Holley is going to burn me a custom chip (they are being EXTREMELY helpful) and they are thinking about the best way to accomplish the rich idle I need. So in the mean time I was going to try and fool the computer by droping the O2 sensor voltage. This would let, say 0.8 volts into the computer be something like 0.9 volts out of the sensor. Ya, ya I know the sensors are not linear way out there but it lets the car idle! BTW: I have no affiliation with Holley, blah blah blah ..... Later Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 15:08:33 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA12757; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:01:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA12743; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:01:28 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA23292 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:56:39 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-077.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0syKQt-0009ilC; Thu, 28 Sep 95 09:59 EST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 09:59 EST X-Sender: teldridg@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: teldridg@holli.com (Tim Eldridge) Subject: getting index X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu index DIY_EFI From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 15:40:44 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA12929; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:33:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA12915; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:32:49 -0400 Received: by ns1.eds.com (hello) id LAA01851; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:32:38 -0400 Received: by nnsa.eds.com (hello) id LAA27729; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:32:38 -0400 Received: from ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA09815; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:32:02 -0400 Received: from ctlp0140.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.71.49]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA088022356; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:32:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 10:52:31 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: RE: Hmm . . . suggestions on Chrysler fuel injection To: DIY_EFI X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Bradley Miller wrote: >I've gotten some ideas from Chrysler engineer/racer on how to make a >fuel injection setup for my car. .. >Get a '88 one-peice intake manifold I'd recommend the two-piece to make porting, etc. easier. >Use wiring harness from '86 Shelby Charger (mine's an '83 Shelby >Charger non-turbo) >Use wiring harness overlay from Chrysler (?? part number - - getting >that info) >Use 1986 Omni GLHS logic module .. >Basically, this setup is just leaving the turbo out of the equation - - >in it's place I'm going to biuld a 2.5L, Lunatic cam, Hooker header, >10:1 compression motor. Later on, I may want to go to turbo charging . >the higher compression for more low end torque. (Probably back to 9-9.5:1) The logic module would, I think, be worthless if you aren't going to do a turbo setup. Your off-boost airflow and timing will be totally different with the cam, header, compression, and displacement changes. You will most likely be better off with an aftermarket EFI system that you can calibrate for your engine (or make your own!). Forget the 9.5:1 compression w/turbo unless you are running Turbo Blue or methanol *all* the time. >System will have a 46mm TBI with appropriate TPS and AIS Use the 52mm throttle body from the 3.0l minivan. Use that minivan's injectors, too (20% more flow, assuming your airflow increases by that much, too). >Any suggestions? He said he'd give me the logic module, and the rest >of the stuff shouldn't be over $200 from the boneyard. I don't know what you are looking for - asphalt-munching torque or racetrack-dominating power. I don't think there's enough meat in the cylinder walls to punch the block out to 2.5l. If you're set on larger displacement, you might want to start with a 2.5l motor rather than your 2.2. An interesting idea would be to use the 2.5l turbo motor as your starting point. You might want to remove the balance shafts to reduce inertia. My overall recommendation would be to stick with the Stage I-II-III-... modifications described in the Mopar Performance catalog. These are the result of a lot of good engineering and testing and will save you much $$$ in the long run and many headaches. Your best bet for extreme performance starting with a 2.2 (turbo) is the MP Super 60 kit. I understand this will take an L-body down into the 12's. Either that or be the first to stuff in a 16V turbo motor... I don't know who your contact is at Chrysler, but it should be Rich Zelkowski if you decide to go the turbo route. Regardless of whether you go turbo or non-turbo, the guys at Lambros Race Engineering [(314)725-7181] specialize in L-body/2.2l performance mods and generally know what they're talking about. They are typically more than willing to shoot the breeze and discuss your ideas. If you are thinking about dropping in, say, the 2.2l intercooled turbo into your L-body I have a contact that can give you a lot of advice. Ed Lansinger '86 Dodge Omni GLH Turbo Bored, Blueprinted, Balanced, HP computer, etc. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 15:57:05 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA13445; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:50:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA13426; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:50:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199509281550.LAA13426@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA028853422; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:50:22 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: injector sizing To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:50:21 EDT In-Reply-To: <199509281316.AA08875@interlock.lubrizol.com>; from "mwc@lubrizol.com" at Sep 28, 95 9:11 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ ~ ~ Hi. I'm new to the EFI list. Excuse me if these questions ~ are exhausted: ~ ~ I have a '84 928S with L-Jetronic. I'm interested in increasing ~ performance, but my budget will allow only one step at a time. ~ ~ Before I add a hot cam, can I oversize my injectors without ~ any negative effects? I think stock is 19 lb/hr, and I'd like ~ 25 - 30 lb/hr. I would think that open-loop mode would run ~ too rich; if I'm right, can it be adjusted on L-Jet? ~ You may be able to screw with the supply pressure. The square root of the ratio of the fuel pressures equals the ratio of the injector flows. - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 16:08:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA13861; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 16:05:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA13847; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 12:05:10 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA23959 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:00:17 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-077.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0syLQS-0009iyC; Thu, 28 Sep 95 11:03 EST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 11:03 EST X-Sender: teldridg@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: teldridg@holli.com (Tim Eldridge) Subject: index request X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu index diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 17:21:32 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA15169; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 17:15:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA15155; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:15:10 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA06893 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 28 Sep 95 10:14:53 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA15481; Thu, 28 Sep 95 10:14:51 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA19625; Thu, 28 Sep 95 12:14:50 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16755; Thu, 28 Sep 95 12:11:05 CDT Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 12:11:05 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509281711.AA16755@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: index request Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Ted, you're sending a request to a mailing list... ;-( try sending it to "majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" --Tom > From owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Thu Sep 28 11:39:35 1995 > Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 11:03 EST > X-Sender: teldridg@holli.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset="us-ascii"> > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: teldridg@holli.com (Tim Eldridge) > Subject: index request > X-Mailer: > Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Content-Length: 15 > > index diy_efi > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 18:03:55 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA15307; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 17:57:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dub-img-3.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA15293; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:57:24 -0400 Received: by dub-img-3.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id NAA12472; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:57:12 -0400 Date: 28 Sep 95 13:55:26 EDT From: "Roger S. Cohen" <72772.2212@compuserve.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Archive info? Message-ID: <950928175526_72772.2212_EHL182-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Members of DIY_EFI: Probably an old subject, but can anyone guide me to the proper archive to find specifications for the GM "SCAN" output for their ECU? Would like to do some basic research and play with some real-time displays before experimenting with original design. Thanks, Roger Cohen From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 18:08:30 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA15373; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 18:06:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA15359; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:06:46 -0400 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA28571 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 28 Sep 95 11:06:29 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA16933; Thu, 28 Sep 95 11:06:25 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA23141; Thu, 28 Sep 95 13:06:24 -0500 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17062; Thu, 28 Sep 95 13:02:39 CDT Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 13:02:39 CDT From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955 (apprvl-Clark Meier)) Message-Id: <9509281802.AA17062@roadster.autotest> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: index request Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu OPPS! Bad enough to send a note to someone for accidently sending it to a mailing list, WORSE is when I SEND it to all on the list and NOT the original sender. Need to hack mailtool v3 one of these days to fix that! ;-) Back to other things... Tom From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 19:22:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA15505; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:19:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA15491; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:19:17 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0syOSl-000DojC; Thu, 28 Sep 95 14:17 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output To: DIY_EFI Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 14:17:43 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <9509281356.AA22271@oasys.dt.navy.mil> from "Robert Gallant" at Sep 28, 95 09:56:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1787 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Robert Gallant writes: > Now the problem I ran into is that my car like to idle VERY rich and the > computer only lets you set O2 trigger voltages up to 0.8v. The computer tries > to adjust the O2 compensation to maintain the trigger voltage. As a result the > car won't idle. > > Holley is going to burn me a custom chip (they are being EXTREMELY helpful) and > they are thinking about the best way to accomplish the rich idle I need. So in > the mean time I was going to try and fool the computer by droping the O2 sensor > voltage. This would let, say 0.8 volts into the computer be something like 0.9 > volts out of the sensor. Ya, ya I know the sensors are not linear way out there > but it lets the car idle! What's your EGT like, Rob? You may not even be able to get 800mv out of your EGO at idle... (depends on the sensor). On our M85 car, I couldn't even get 700mv at idle when I was blowing raw fuel out the exhaust (mega rich). Anyway, it sounds like you need an open loop idle... is there any way to set the holley system to go open loop below a certain TPS output? Does the Holley system have a water temp threshold for going into closed loop? If so, maybe you can put a throttle actuated double throw microswitch on the CTS lead and use two seperate coolant temp sensors with majorly different calibrations? (one thats guaranteed to keep you in open loop at idle). You'd have an interesting spike in your coolant temp (fuel) correction curve (if you have one), but it might work :) -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Sep 28 19:55:45 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA15570; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 19:47:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA15556; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 15:47:34 -0400 Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA23183; Thu, 28 Sep 95 15:47:20 EDT Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 15:47:20 EDT Message-Id: <9509281947.AA23183@oasys.dt.navy.mil> From: "Robert Gallant" To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > What's your EGT like, Rob? You may not even be able to get 800mv out of > your EGO at idle... (depends on the sensor). On our M85 car, I > couldn't even get 700mv at idle when I was blowing raw fuel out the > exhaust (mega rich). Anyway, it sounds like you need an open loop > idle... is there any way to set the holley system to go open loop > below a certain TPS output? Does the Holley system have a water > temp threshold for going into closed loop? If so, maybe you can put > a throttle actuated double throw microswitch on the CTS lead and use > two seperate coolant temp sensors with majorly different calibrations? > (one thats guaranteed to keep you in open loop at idle). You'd have an > interesting spike in your coolant temp (fuel) correction curve (if you have > one), but it might work :) With the sensor disconnected from the computer, I measured .92 volts at idle. Remember this is a rotary. The higher EGT might help obtain the higer voltage reading. Open loop idle was one of the things holley was looking at doing for me. Here's another question. I had initially been told to look for a rapid increase in EGT just before detonation occurs. I think I saw it stated on this list that EGT will drop during the onset of detonation. Any idea which is correct. I am tuning for a conservative 1600 F at full throttle full boost. Later Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 00:59:13 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA16083; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:55:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA16069; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:55:45 -0400 From: ALIPPER@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA19518 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:55:28 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:55:28 -0400 Message-ID: <950928205527_69283840@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: PC efi board schematics Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-27 16:56:03 EDT, you write: >Hello, > I downloaded Al Lipper's PC efi project. I can't read the eps or the >cad files, using viewers that work on other eps files (ghostview). Excel 5.0 >won't read the dxf cad files. > > Has anyone else had this problem? Al, can you send out the files in >GIF format even though the quality is bad? I am very interested in this >project and am planning to develop a derivative of this myself. Thanks, Al, >for sharing you work and data. > > I don't have a good GIF converter, but would be happy to work with anyone who does. The DXF and EPS files are valid, but I too have found that some software (Like MS word) cannot read them. So, if anyone has a good format converter, let me know, or just convert them and let me know - I'll have them posted. - Al - From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 01:04:14 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA16122; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:04:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA16108; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:04:02 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by VCA.GI.COM (PMDF V5.0-5 #7516) id <01HVTH9MHUJKK1PVFO@VCA.GI.COM>; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 18:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <306B45C9@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 18:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 18:03:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: RE: 3T GTEU wiring diagram sought.. To: "diy_efi (postings)" , "toyota-mods@cyberauto.com" Message-id: <306B45C9@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 35 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Try the following web page: http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ and follow the links to: http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/vehicles/3T-GTEfi.html There is a lot of info here on the 3T-GTEU engine and EFI computer. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: toyota-mods-owner To: toyota-mods Subject: 3T GTEU wiring diagram sought.. Date: Friday, September 29, 1995 9:39AM Hi there, I have in my hand a fuel computer for a 3T GTEU engine, that came from a Japanese engine importer. I am trying to find a diagram for how the computer connects to the engine and sensors (ie an EFI wiring diagram). Can anyone help me out here? Even the pinout of the connector on the ECU would be a start. [Background info: This computer appears to be an analog op amp based type computer. There are a dozen or so resistors mounted on PCB pins that are the calibration for the 'computer'. I am trying to figure out if I can use this computer with pots to replace the resistors to make my own cheap 'programmable' computer] Cheers, Craig. pugsley@trl.oz.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 01:50:24 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA16242; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:46:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from jerboa.devetwa.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA16228; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:46:26 -0400 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by jerboa.devetwa.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA11684 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:53:09 +0800 Received: from wpsmtp.devetwa.edu.au(163.232.4.1) by jerboa via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma011665; Fri Sep 29 09:52:54 1995 Received: from WATafe-Message_Server by wpsmtp.devetwa.edu.au with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 09:44:25 +0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:12:34 +0800 From: Danny Wallace To: DIY_EFI Subject: Ignition Book Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All, I've seen mention of a book titled "Optimizing your Ignition" in a catolugue (Oz), but that supplier was unable to get stock. Anybody know where this book can be found? According to guy in the RaceParts shop who couldn't get it in, "Oh, you wouldn't want that, its really technical and goes way over everyones head". Sound just like what I want :-) !! Thanks, Danny Wallace wallad@devetwa.edu.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 01:50:31 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA16260; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:50:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wave.sheridan.wy.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA16246; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 21:50:16 -0400 Received: from (slip8.wave.sheridan.wy.us [204.120.134.48]) by wave.sheridan.wy.us (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA10839 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 20:08:07 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 19:40:28 PDT From: jac@wave.sheridan.wy.us (john carroll) To: DIY_EFI Subject: RE: O2 sensor operation Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu My GM manual 16009.?0-1 indicates on page 5-9 and 5-10 that normal operation is for the output voltage to cross the .45 volt reference signal quite often. If it stays above or below for "too long" an error code is set. My personal observation is that the it does indeed cross often. an error code is also set if it stays between .3 and .6 with no crossings. Proper operation is to cross .3 and .6 "often" I doubt that it is possible to bias the operation by skewing the output of the sensor. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 03:23:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA16427; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 03:17:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gater4.sematech.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA16413; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:16:58 -0400 Received: from gatev3.sematech.org by gater4.sematech.org (8.6.12/F-1.9) with ESMTP id WAA08027; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:16:46 -0500 Received: from MR.SEMATECH.Org by SEMATECH.Org (PMDF V4.3-13 #5463) id <01HVTQ4HUU5C8WW4ZT@SEMATECH.Org>; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:16:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: with PMDF-MR; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:14:55 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta MAILV2; Relayed; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:14:55 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta GATEV1; Relayed; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:14:55 -0500 (CDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:12:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759 Subject: Ignition Book To: diy_efi Message-id: <01HVTQ4K8AX28WW4ZT@MR.SEMATECH.Org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID uicK+ZNBuww5GJQ74nisng)" Posting-date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:12:00 -0500 (CDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-MTS-identifier: [;55412282905991/1741124@VAXEN] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu --Boundary (ID uicK+ZNBuww5GJQ74nisng) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII --Boundary (ID uicK+ZNBuww5GJQ74nisng) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:04:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Steve Knickerbocker"@MR.SEMATECH.Org Subject: Ignition Book MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 00:00:00 -0500 (CDT) A1-type: DOCUMENT Hi All, I've seen mention of a book titled "Optimizing your Ignition" in a catolugue (Oz), but that supplier was unable to get stock. Anybody know where this book can be found? According to guy in the RaceParts shop who couldn't get it in, "Oh, you wouldn't want that, its really technical and goes way over everyones head". Sound just like what I want :-) !! Thanks, Danny Wallace wallad@devetwa.edu.au ------------------------------------------------------------------- Got the book. It's called "The Doctor's guide to optimising your ignition system" by Dr. Christopher Jacobs, Phd. They're in Midland, Texas. Phone number is 800-627-8800 or (915)685-3345. Snail mail: Jacobs Electronics, ATTN: Tubbs, 500 N. Baird, Midland, TX 79701. If the guy at the raceparts shop thinks this book is way over peoples heads they I'd be real skeptical of his intelligence. It starts out explaining in the simplest way possible how electrons flow and builds from there. It is more oriented towards the person who knows little about electronics but wants to learn more about automotive ignitions. I have know idea as to the current cost and I don't remember what I paid many years ago. BTW, my edition is obsolete so maybe the new one is very technical. Thunderstruck... --Boundary (ID uicK+ZNBuww5GJQ74nisng)-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 03:49:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA16527; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 03:45:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from genesis.nred.ma.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA16513; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:45:07 -0400 From: genesis!mvarc!an.bradford.ma.us!adh Received: from mvarc.UUCP by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id XAA03420; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 23:44:06 -0400 Received: from an.bradford.ma.us by mvarc.n-andover.ma.us with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0WnET4-0002jDC; Fri, 10 May 85 08:34 EDT Message-Id: Date: Fri, 10 May 85 08:34 EDT Apparently-From: mvarc!an.bradford.ma.us!adh To: DIY_EFI Subject: RE: Hmm . . . suggestions on Chrysler fuel injection Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Ed Lansinger writes: I don't think there's enough meat in the cylinder walls to punch the block out to 2.5l. If you're set on larger displacement, you might want to start with a 2.5l motor rather than your 2.2. afaik, 2.2s and 2.5s had the same bore; -early- 2.5s had a taller block than the 2.2s, -late- 2.5s shared the same block. dunno the crossover year though, but it suggests that the early 2.5 could be stroked even bigger... An interesting idea would be to use the 2.5l turbo motor as your starting point. You might want to remove the balance shafts to reduce inertia. wouldn't you have to rebalance the engine afterwards? of course, if you were going to anyways... _______________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics adh@an.bradford.ma.us ---Schroedinger From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 05:51:38 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA16723; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 05:49:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix6.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA16709; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 01:49:48 -0400 Received: from by ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id WAA10148; Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:49:36 -0700 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 22:49:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199509290549.WAA10148@ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: RE: O2 sensor operation To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > >My GM manual 16009.?0-1 indicates on page 5-9 and 5-10 that normal >operation is for the output voltage to cross the .45 volt reference signal >quite often. If it stays above or below for "too long" an error code is set. >My personal observation is that the it does indeed cross often. an error >code is also set if it stays between .3 and .6 with no crossings. Proper >operation is to cross .3 and .6 "often" I doubt that it is possible to bias >the operation by skewing the output of the sensor. > is info that detailed availible in astandard gm shop manual if not possibly i could obtain the manual you are refering to from helm with the exact part number thank you > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 10:08:29 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA16997; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:05:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA16983; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 06:05:32 -0400 Received: by basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk (MX V4.1 VAX) id 13; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:05:02 +0100 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:05:01 +0100 From: pmc1eng@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk To: DIY_EFI Message-ID: <009971E3.E2C979E0.13@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk> Subject: motronic questions Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all! I'm in the process of reading a few EFI books to increase my knowledge of their reaction to external inputs before I dive into the "intake tunning" part of my project (now in the DIY_EFI web page, under "topics of interest"-thanx RF!). Here's a couple of questions to which I can't find an answer in the books: 1) What is the lambda map doing in the Motronic EFI when there's a lambda sensor in the exhaust ensuring that A/F ratio stays constant = 1 regardless of rpm or load ? It goes as low as 0.85 in some areas of the map, and that's not considering cold start or acceleration enrichment ! 2) What's the EFI like in the K-series Rover engine? Is it similar to Bosch Motronic in terms of sophistication ? More questions will follow shortly :) Thanx for any help ! Pedro (MadMax) E-mail: pmc1eng@bolton.ac.uk From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 14:54:50 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA17385; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:48:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA17371; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:48:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199509291448.KAA17371@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA032206108; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:48:28 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: Ignition Book To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 10:48:28 EDT In-Reply-To: <01HVTQ4K8AX28WW4ZT@MR.SEMATECH.Org>; from "Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759" at Sep 28, 95 10:12 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ Hi All, ~ I've seen mention of a book titled "Optimizing your Ignition" in ~ a catolugue (Oz), but that supplier was unable to get stock. ~ Anybody know where this book can be found? According to guy in ~ the RaceParts shop who couldn't get it in, "Oh, you wouldn't want ~ that, its really technical and goes way over everyones head". ~ Sound just like what I want :-) !! ~ Thanks, ~ Danny Wallace ~ wallad@devetwa.edu.au ~ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ~ Got the book. It's called "The Doctor's guide to optimising your ignition ~ system" by Dr. Christopher Jacobs, Phd. They're in Midland, Texas. Phone ~ number is 800-627-8800 or (915)685-3345. Snail mail: Jacobs Electronics, ATTN: ~ Tubbs, 500 N. Baird, Midland, TX 79701. If the guy at the raceparts shop ~ thinks this book is way over peoples heads they I'd be real skeptical of his ~ intelligence. It starts out explaining in the simplest way possible how ~ electrons flow and builds from there. It is more oriented towards the person ~ who knows little about electronics but wants to learn more about automotive ~ ignitions. I have know idea as to the current cost and I don't remember what I Dr. Jacobs is also a master in marketing. I know of 4 instances where his so-called "computer" ignition was dyno-ed, and there was no gain over stock ignitions. I saw one of their computers after it was un-potted, and it is nothing more than a CD ignition system. No computer (maybe an analog feedback circuit). - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 16:57:34 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA17562; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:44:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gatekeeper.nsc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA17548; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:44:15 -0400 Received: from voder.nsc.com by gatekeeper.nsc.com (5.65/fma-120691) with SMTP; id AA10389 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:43:48 -0700 Received: from baghwan.nsc.com by voder.nsc.com (5.61/1.34) with SMTP id AA19389 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:43:46 -0700 Received: from naxion.nsc.com by baghwan.nsc.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29751 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:43:44 PDT Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 09:43:44 PDT From: barrett@baghwan.nsc.com (Chip Barrett-Smith 8-582-0742) Message-Id: <9509291643.AA29751@baghwan.nsc.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: PC efi board schematics Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >GIF format even though the quality is bad? I am very interested in this > >project and am planning to develop a derivative of this myself. Thanks, Al, > >for sharing you work and data. > > > > > > I don't have a good GIF converter, but would be happy to work with anyone who > does. The DXF and EPS files are valid, but I too have found that some > software (Like MS word) cannot read them. So, if anyone has a good format > converter, let me know, or just convert them and let me know - I'll have them > posted. > > - Al - > > You can ftp gwswn11p.zip from oak.oakland.edu. This converts many formats to another. I believe that it is in pub/win3 but it might be in SimTel... Chip From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 17:22:57 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA17640; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:17:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA17626; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 13:17:18 -0400 Received: from aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca [136.159.4.5]) by fsa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.8) id ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:17:18 -0600 From: fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Robert Fridman) Received: by aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (1.1; from fridman@localhost) id ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:17:18 -0600 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 11:17:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199509291717.LAA24104@aa.cpsc.ucalgary.ca> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: PC efi board schematics Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >GIF format even though the quality is bad? I am very interested in this > > >project and am planning to develop a derivative of this myself. Thanks, Al, > > >for sharing you work and data. > > > > > > > > > > I don't have a good GIF converter, but would be happy to work with anyone who > > does. The DXF and EPS files are valid, but I too have found that some > > software (Like MS word) cannot read them. So, if anyone has a good format > > converter, let me know, or just convert them and let me know - I'll have them > > posted. > > > > - Al - > > > > > You can ftp gwswn11p.zip from oak.oakland.edu. This converts many formats to > another. I believe that it is in pub/win3 but it might be in SimTel... > Chip > I made the zipped GIF files available as well. They were converted from PostScript into GIF by the XV program. If you know of a better converter, please let me know. RF. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 83 R100 DoD 749 Robert Fridman 71 Super Beetle fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca 84 320i From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 17:52:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA17736; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:45:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA17722; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 13:45:27 -0400 Received: (from cburian@localhost) by eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA20501 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:46:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199509291746.MAA20501@eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu> Subject: Re: Ignition Book To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:46:53 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199509291448.KAA17371@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> from "Bruce Bowling" at Sep 29, 95 10:48:28 am From: (Chris Burian) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1117 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Bruce writes: > Dr. Jacobs is also a master in marketing. I know of 4 instances where > his so-called "computer" ignition was dyno-ed, and there was no gain > over stock ignitions. I saw one of their computers after it was > un-potted, and it is nothing more than a CD ignition system. > No computer (maybe an analog feedback circuit). No ignition will do better than a stock one properly tuned with brand new parts being tested on a dyno. It's the ability to fire under less than ideal conditions where the different designs make a difference. I've tested (with a friend who drag races semi-pro) dual point vs. GM HEI vs. MSD 6 and found no repeatable significant difference in qtr. mile times or trap speeds. But, undoubtedly, one is going to stand out against the others starting though fouled plugs at 10 below zero. (Prob. the capacitive discharge because it will put out full coil power down to 6V or so battery voltage, plus CD is best at firing fouled plugs). BTW, Dr. Jacobs book is good, IMO. I got it free by filling out a reader service card in Hot Rod (this was about 8 years ago). Chris From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 19:35:18 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA17928; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:29:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA17914; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:29:37 -0400 Message-Id: <199509291929.PAA17914@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA191072965; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:29:25 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: Ignition Book To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:29:24 EDT In-Reply-To: <199509291746.MAA20501@eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu>; from "Chris Burian" at Sep 29, 95 12:46 (noon) X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ ~ Bruce writes: ~ ~ > Dr. Jacobs is also a master in marketing. I know of 4 instances where ~ > his so-called "computer" ignition was dyno-ed, and there was no gain ~ > over stock ignitions. I saw one of their computers after it was ~ > un-potted, and it is nothing more than a CD ignition system. ~ > No computer (maybe an analog feedback circuit). ~ ~ No ignition will do better than a stock one properly tuned with brand new ~ parts being tested on a dyno. It's the ability to fire under less than ~ ideal conditions where the different designs make a difference. I've ~ tested (with a friend who drag races semi-pro) dual point vs. GM HEI vs. ~ MSD 6 and found no repeatable significant difference in qtr. mile times ~ or trap speeds. But, undoubtedly, one is going to stand out against the ~ others starting though fouled plugs at 10 below zero. (Prob. the capacitive ~ discharge because it will put out full coil power down to 6V or so ~ battery voltage, plus CD is best at firing fouled plugs). ~ Absolutely! But the Dr. touts that a measured gain of 15 HP can be had by his box. Just like his variable-reluctance magic coil will add 5 HP alone (hence the PhD in marketing). They may help a oil-burner or a gas-flooder run a little better, but the average car will not get the gain stated. And where is the computer which is built-in the box? Hard to see with all that potting compound. There are a ton of CD ignitions out on the market, and what info I have indicates that Jacobs box (for over $100.00) is on par with generic add-on CD ignitions which can be bought from Whitneys (which has also sold Jacobs ignitions) for $30.00. MSD ignitions are also CD, but the added multiple spark is something the others (like Jacobs) do not have. They both put about 450 volts across the coil, using a DC-to-DC converter. MSD also does not "pot" their boxes. I used MSD ignitions when I raced, and so do most of the racers out there. I use this as a benchmark - racers will kill for thousandths of a second, and will test everything under the sun. Most use MSD hands down. There is a reason, and I do not think that many racers buy the same thing as the competitor just to be "in", they purchase equipment to win. Given the choice between Jacobs and MSD-6A (which costs $118.00 from Summit), I'd choose MSD (and have). -Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 20:11:03 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA17994; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:04:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA17980; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:04:51 -0400 Received: (from pjwales@localhost) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA17874; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:04:35 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:04:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter J Wales To: DIY_EFI cc: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: injector sizing In-Reply-To: <199509281316.AA08875@interlock.lubrizol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Thu, 28 Sep 1995 mwc@lubrizol.com wrote> > Before I add a hot cam, can I oversize my injectors without > any negative effects? I think stock is 19 lb/hr, and I'd like > 25 - 30 lb/hr. I would think that open-loop mode would run > too rich; if I'm right, can it be adjusted on L-Jet? Why bother? If you change them the computer will lean the fuelling out on part throttle (closed loop) and you will be too rich on open loop so you are going to lean it out mechanically. Leave it like it is and take Bruces suggestion of an increase in fuel pressure. There is enough fuel for approximately 15% more power than the stock engine can supply with the stock injectors Peter Wales President Superchips From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 21:34:28 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA18131; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 21:28:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.pilot.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA18117; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:27:57 -0400 Received: from verity.com (unknown-143-5.verity.com [192.187.143.5]) by mail.pilot.net (8.7/8.7.Beta.12) with SMTP id OAA10798 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cato.verity.com by verity.com (4.1/SMI-4.1_Verity-Main-950202) id AA02013; Fri, 29 Sep 95 14:26:45 PDT From: neville@Verity.COM (Neville Newman) Received: (neville@localhost) by cato.verity.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA20171 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:27:44 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:27:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199509292127.OAA20171@cato.verity.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu i dyno-tested an early Jacobs ignition (it was definitely the non-computer version) on my Fiat X1/9, compared to a Marelli Plex electronig ignition (no multi-spark, no CD). The engine was definitely not new - i built it 3 years before and it had about 5K miles and lots of autocrosses and track time on it. i know the chambers were dirty because when i first bolted the engine together, i could run 20 degrees static advance with no detonation on pump premium, and i definitely can't do that anymore. On the same night, i saw no difference in performance between Jacobs, Marelli (with Lodge plugs), or Marelli (with Splitfire plugs - waste of money). The numbers were all within our window of error on the dyno readings. However, what i've seen in the recent Jacobs ads is a description of a system that sounds a *LOT* like the new one from SAAB, which uses "continuous" resistance measurements over the plug gap to determine what to do on the next firing cycle. Of course, if this is what Jacobs is doing, they can still only modify the ignition based on the feedback. SAAB, on the other hand, can modify ignition/fuel/boost all at the same time. About 1 1/2 years ago, i saw a short engineering note on the SAAB system in one of my car mags (R&T or Autoweek). They used the new system in a test in Los Angeles. The measured emissions (O2, CO2, CO, HC, NOx) were cleaner coming out the tailpipe than the air that went in. Even more amazing was the followup shock-factor demonstration, where they fed the same engine's inlet from the tailpipe of a running SAAB 96? 2-cycle motor. The output was still within CA-legal emmissions limits. If Jacobs really patented this technology, as he seems to claim, then he'd be shouting from the rooftops that he had licensed it to SAAB. If he didn't invent it, then i doubt that he could afford to license it from SAAB. Either way, it leads me to believe that his recent ads are claiming something which is patently false (pun intended). -neville From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 22:30:41 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA18367; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 22:28:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.crl.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA18353; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:28:15 -0400 Received: from crl6.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA24299 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:27:28 -0700 Received: by crl6.crl.com id AA18955 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:40:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:40:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lawrence S. Harris III" To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book In-Reply-To: <199509291929.PAA17914@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > MSD ignitions are also CD, but the added multiple spark is something > the others (like Jacobs) do not have. They both put about 450 volts > across the coil, using a DC-to-DC converter. MSD also does not > "pot" their boxes. What is the frequency of the "Multiple Spark"? At really high RPMs, the multiple spark may not even be an advantage, since combustion happens so quickly. Has anyone out there looked into this? Larry Harris lharris@crl.com (770)682-8842 (voice) '86 Mustang LX 5.0 Coupe (152K) '82 BMW 635CSi Euro (122K) Meyers Tow'd Dune Buggy (1776cc) '83 Toyota Tercel (185K) From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Sep 29 23:58:04 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA18512; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:56:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gater4.sematech.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA18498; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:56:51 -0400 Received: from GATEV4.SEMATECH.ORG by gater4.sematech.org (8.6.12/F-1.9) with ESMTP id SAA04680; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:56:39 -0500 Received: from MR.SEMATECH.Org by SEMATECH.Org (PMDF V4.3-13 #5463) id <01HVUXEO9CWG8WW5Y2@SEMATECH.Org>; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:56:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: with PMDF-MR; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:56:01 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta MAILV2; Relayed; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:56:01 -0500 (CDT) MR-Received: by mta GATEV1; Relayed; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:55:56 -0500 (CDT) Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:50:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759 Subject: Re: Ignition Book To: diy_efi Message-id: <01HVUXET825Y8WW5Y2@MR.SEMATECH.Org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary (ID IELfTNIP3taIkABYDiWm4A)" Posting-date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:51:00 -0500 (CDT) Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-MTS-identifier: [;10658192905991/1743765@VAXEN] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 2 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu --Boundary (ID IELfTNIP3taIkABYDiWm4A) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII --Boundary (ID IELfTNIP3taIkABYDiWm4A) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:46:00 -0500 (CDT) From: "Steve Knickerbocker"@MR.SEMATECH.Org Subject: Re: Ignition Book MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Posting-date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 00:00:00 -0500 (CDT) A1-type: DOCUMENT What is the frequency of the "Multiple Spark"? At really high RPMs, the multiple spark may not even be an advantage, since combustion happens so quickly. Has anyone out there looked into this? Larry Harris lharris@crl.com (770)682-8842 (voice) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- My understanding is that the newer MSD multispark systems provide a series of sparks at lower rpm and one hot spark at higher rpm. I have no clue as to how they do this. I'm not sure if there is a sudden switch in modes at a certain rpm or if they gradually taper off the number of sparks/revolution till they reach a limit of 1. I'd think the latter would be a better deal. Thunderstruck... --Boundary (ID IELfTNIP3taIkABYDiWm4A)-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 01:10:09 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA18650; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:02:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dione.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA18635; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 21:02:35 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by VCA.GI.COM (PMDF V5.0-5 #7516) id <01HVUVGXIIOGK1QA0C@VCA.GI.COM> for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <306C96B4@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 18:01:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: Ignition Book To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-id: <306C96B4@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Encoding: 32 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have measured the frequency of the multiple spark. If I remember correctly, it occurs at a rate of 1 mS between sparks. At low engine speeds (cranking to start engine), it will fire 10 times or so. At about 2500 rpm, it only fires once. This is for a 4 cylinder. Cut all rpms in half for a V8. So, the advantage of multiple sparks is lost pretty quickly. Use two MSDs and multiplex them to regain the multiple sparks at higher rpms. I promised a set of schematics for the MSD 6A a loooong time ago, and am very delinquent on getting this out. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ---------- From: owner-diy_efi-outgoing To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book Date: Friday, September 29, 1995 2:40PM > MSD ignitions are also CD, but the added multiple spark is something > the others (like Jacobs) do not have. They both put about 450 volts > across the coil, using a DC-to-DC converter. MSD also does not > "pot" their boxes. What is the frequency of the "Multiple Spark"? At really high RPMs, the multiple spark may not even be an advantage, since combustion happens so quickly. Has anyone out there looked into this? Larry Harris lharris@crl.com (770)682-8842 (voice) '86 Mustang LX 5.0 Coupe (152K) '82 BMW 635CSi Euro (122K) Meyers Tow'd Dune Buggy (1776cc) '83 Toyota Tercel (185K) From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 02:58:37 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA18947; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 02:51:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA18933; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 22:51:11 -0400 Received: from rowan.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA16853; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 22:51:49 -0400 Received: by rowan.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA04529; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 22:51:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 22:51:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Bob Valentine To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > What is the frequency of the "Multiple Spark"? At really high RPMs, the > multiple spark may not even be an advantage, since combustion happens so > quickly. Has anyone out there looked into this? I think the consensus was that at high RPM the multiple spark is of no advantage over single spark. I agree; the MSD 6A on my car only helped idle quality and low RPM performance. No noticeable difference on the high end (but no detriment either). While we're on the MSD subject, I can't get a tach to fire off my 6A box. No signal out of the tach connector. Anyone ever fix these? --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 03:09:01 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA18977; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 03:02:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.crl.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA18963; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:02:36 -0400 Received: from crl14.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA06535 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:01:53 -0700 Received: by crl14.crl.com id AA19973 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:59:51 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:59:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Carter Hendricks To: DIY_EFI Cc: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book In-Reply-To: <199509291746.MAA20501@eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 29 Sep 1995 cburian@uiuc.edu wrote: > Bruce writes: > > > Dr. Jacobs is also a master in marketing. I know of 4 instances where and Chris replied... > > BTW, Dr. Jacobs book is good, IMO. I got it free... Well, I -paid- for it and had the sinking feeling that I'd just paid a little too much for someone's catalog. --Carter From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 03:24:12 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA19027; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 03:17:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.crl.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA19013; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:17:43 -0400 Received: from crl14.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA08350 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:17:00 -0700 Received: by crl14.crl.com id AA20210 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:17:50 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 20:17:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carter Hendricks To: DIY_EFI Cc: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book In-Reply-To: <199509292127.OAA20171@cato.verity.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Neville Newman wrote: > i dyno-tested an early Jacobs ignition (it was definitely the non-computer > version) on my Fiat X1/9, compared to a Marelli Plex electronig ignition > (no multi-spark, no CD). For those who don't know, which -should- be almost everyone, the "Marelli Plex" ignition was a GM HEI system [many of the modules were of actual GM manufacture] fitted to a heat-sink/coil and with a new distributor... provided as an OE crutch for Alfa Romeo's last mechanical injection systems and later supplied as an aftermarket kit for Alfas and FIATs. The HEI system is quite adequate for a 4 cylinder engine even at pretty high rpm limits, and the energy level is high enough as to have taught me the meaning [and feeling] of angina. Two weeks of chest tightness after a little mistake on the distributor machine... never did tell my wife... From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 04:58:26 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA19488; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 04:56:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from classic.iinet.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA19474; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 00:55:54 -0400 Received: from jazz97.dy.iinet.net.au (jazz97.dy.iinet.net.au [203.8.222.97]) by classic.iinet.com.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA01536 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:55:24 +0800 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:55:24 +0800 Message-Id: <199509300455.MAA01536@classic.iinet.com.au> X-Sender: steveb@classic.iinet.net.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: steveb@iinet.com.au (Steve Boak) Subject: EFI conputer prices Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi from Aus... I have been looking at prices for EFI computers in Austalia, and was suprised at the high cost. An original Suzuki ECU is $2850 (AUS), and the various after-market units rang from $1000 to $2000+ depending on the options. That's just for the hardware - fitting and tuning extra! Can someone please give me an idea of US or UK prices? Thanks... Steve P.S. I am trying to set up a Suzuki Swift GTI motor in a Suzuki Sierra (Samuri in the US?) 4WD, but I don't have the original ECU. I don't care how old I get, as long as I don't have to grow up. E-Mail to steveb@iinet.com.au, Homepage at http://www.iinet.com.au/~steveb From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 05:24:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA19607; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 05:23:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA19558; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:28 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA16882 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:11 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:11 -0400 Message-ID: <950930012310_112953183@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-29 16:24:13 EDT, bowling@cebaf.gov (Bruce Bowling) writes: >I used MSD ignitions when I raced, and so do most of the racers out >there. I use this as a benchmark - racers will kill for thousandths >of a second, and will test everything under the sun. Most use >MSD hands down. There is a reason, and I do not think that >many racers buy the same thing as the competitor just to >be "in", they purchase equipment to win. > >Given the choice between Jacobs and MSD-6A (which costs $118.00 from >Summit), I'd choose MSD (and have). > >-Bruce I would also choose the MSD over the Jacobs, and have. In my 1974 Jensen-Healey, I have a MSD 6AL, a MSD Blaster 2 coil, and and MSD timing computer to go along with it. There is alot more you can do with a MSD ignition than with a Jacobs. -Bonn From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 05:24:39 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA19605; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 05:23:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA19551; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:27 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA12478 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:14 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:14 -0400 Message-ID: <950930012314_112953200@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-29 23:42:20 EDT, ravalent@liii.com (Bob Valentine) writes: > > While we're on the MSD subject, I can't get a tach to fire off my >6A box. No signal out of the tach connector. Anyone ever fix these? > > Call MSD, give then your situation and they can tell you how to regain your tach. You may need one of the two or three "tach adapters" they have. The MSD Tech line phone # is 915-855-7123. -Bonn an advantage, since combustion happens so >quickly. Has anyone out there looked into this? > > Nology Engineering in California has looked into this and created their "Hot Wires". They apparently think that if the multiple spark occurs over 20 degrees of rotation, at high revs that is much too inaccurate for optimum combustion. Thier Hot Wires, shorten the spark, I believe, with a capacitor, down to a few nanoseconds. I'm not sure of the details. It's solid core, low reisitance wire, with a grounding strap. There was an article on them this summer in Turbo magazine, I think. They found positive results. -Bonn ion system. >No computer (maybe an analog feedback circuit). > >- Bruce > > I put a Jacobs ignition box and coil in a 1986 Volkswagen Scirocco, and gained 2 mpg on the highway and better throttle response and torque. I would agree however that it is little more than a CD system. No majic, but it can be effective, like a MSD box can. -Bonn From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 05:24:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA19608; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 05:23:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA19551; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:27 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA12478 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:14 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:14 -0400 Message-ID: <950930012314_112953200@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-29 23:42:20 EDT, ravalent@liii.com (Bob Valentine) writes: > > While we're on the MSD subject, I can't get a tach to fire off my >6A box. No signal out of the tach connector. Anyone ever fix these? > > Call MSD, give then your situation and they can tell you how to regain your tach. You may need one of the two or three "tach adapters" they have. The MSD Tech line phone # is 915-855-7123. -Bonn an advantage, since combustion happens so >quickly. Has anyone out there looked into this? > > Nology Engineering in California has looked into this and created their "Hot Wires". They apparently think that if the multiple spark occurs over 20 degrees of rotation, at high revs that is much too inaccurate for optimum combustion. Thier Hot Wires, shorten the spark, I believe, with a capacitor, down to a few nanoseconds. I'm not sure of the details. It's solid core, low reisitance wire, with a grounding strap. There was an article on them this summer in Turbo magazine, I think. They found positive results. -Bonn ion system. >No computer (maybe an analog feedback circuit). > >- Bruce > > I put a Jacobs ignition box and coil in a 1986 Volkswagen Scirocco, and gained 2 mpg on the highway and better throttle response and torque. I would agree however that it is little more than a CD system. No majic, but it can be effective, like a MSD box can. -Bonn From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 05:24:40 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA19606; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 05:23:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA19551; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:27 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA12478 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:14 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:23:14 -0400 Message-ID: <950930012314_112953200@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: Ignition Book Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In a message dated 95-09-29 23:42:20 EDT, ravalent@liii.com (Bob Valentine) writes: > > While we're on the MSD subject, I can't get a tach to fire off my >6A box. No signal out of the tach connector. Anyone ever fix these? > > Call MSD, give then your situation and they can tell you how to regain your tach. You may need one of the two or three "tach adapters" they have. The MSD Tech line phone # is 915-855-7123. -Bonn an advantage, since combustion happens so >quickly. Has anyone out there looked into this? > > Nology Engineering in California has looked into this and created their "Hot Wires". They apparently think that if the multiple spark occurs over 20 degrees of rotation, at high revs that is much too inaccurate for optimum combustion. Thier Hot Wires, shorten the spark, I believe, with a capacitor, down to a few nanoseconds. I'm not sure of the details. It's solid core, low reisitance wire, with a grounding strap. There was an article on them this summer in Turbo magazine, I think. They found positive results. -Bonn ion system. >No computer (maybe an analog feedback circuit). > >- Bruce > > I put a Jacobs ignition box and coil in a 1986 Volkswagen Scirocco, and gained 2 mpg on the highway and better throttle response and torque. I would agree however that it is little more than a CD system. No majic, but it can be effective, like a MSD box can. -Bonn From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 06:55:15 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA19813; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 06:50:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA19799; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 02:49:58 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0syviv-000CvHC; Sat, 30 Sep 95 01:48 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Ignition Book To: DIY_EFI Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:48:37 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199509291746.MAA20501@eehpx18.cen.uiuc.edu> from "Chris Burian" at Sep 29, 95 12:46:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 712 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Chris Burian writes: > or trap speeds. But, undoubtedly, one is going to stand out against the > others starting though fouled plugs at 10 below zero. (Prob. the capacitive > discharge because it will put out full coil power down to 6V or so > battery voltage, plus CD is best at firing fouled plugs). I'm not sure where the other MSD's die, but I know the 7A i ran a few years ago got flaky as hell at 10V and totally crapped out by 9.5V. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 08:41:10 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA19941; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 08:36:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA19927; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 04:36:07 -0400 Received: from by ix.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id BAA00716; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:35:52 -0700 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 01:35:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199509300835.BAA00716@ix.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: Re: injector sizing To: DIY_EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > >~ >~ >~ Hi. I'm new to the EFI list. Excuse me if these questions >~ are exhausted: >~ >~ I have a '84 928S with L-Jetronic. I'm interested in increasing >~ performance, but my budget will allow only one step at a time. >~ >~ Before I add a hot cam, can I oversize my injectors without >~ any negative effects? I think stock is 19 lb/hr, and I'd like >~ 25 - 30 lb/hr. I would think that open-loop mode would run >~ too rich; if I'm right, can it be adjusted on L-Jet? >~ >You may be able to screw with the supply pressure. The >square root of the ratio of the fuel pressures equals the >ratio of the injector flows. > >- Bruce > > >-- >----------------------------------------------------- ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >----------------------------------------------------- > Bruce A. Bowling > Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls > The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility > 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 > (804) 249-7240 > bowling@cebaf.gov > http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling >----------------------------------------------------- ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >----------------------------------------------------- > YOU MIGHT FIND LIKE I HAVE THAT FIXING OR REPLACING OUT OF SPEC. COMPONENTS LIKE MAF'S AND TEMP AND VAC TRANSDUCERS ETC. CAN MAKE A GREAT IMPROVEMENT IN AN ELECTRONICALY CONTROLLED ENGINE SOME TIMES EVEN THOUGH THE BAD PART DOSENT GENERATE AN ERROR CODE LIKE ON THE DOMESTICS IT CAN BE ENOUGH OUT OF SPEC. TO CAUSE A VERY NOTICABLE REDUCTION IN PREFORMANCE From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 14:36:19 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA20322; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:26:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA20308; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 10:26:22 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA22030 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:22:17 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-043.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0sz2py-0009ilC; Sat, 30 Sep 95 09:24 EST Message-Id: Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 09:24 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Modifying O2 output X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > wrote: > >> I think I remember reading somewhere (this list? the hotrod list?) >> that one way to get a little bit more liniarity out of an 02 sensor is to >> apply (something like) 0.6 v to it and measure the current into or out of >> it. I also seem to remember seeing a circuit that will switch a load > >>From a WWW page about O2 sensors, I got the following information: > >--> start of quotation <-- > > Almost always, the answer is no. You must be careful to not > *apply* voltage to the sensor, but measuring it's output voltage > is not harmful. As noted by other posters, a cheap voltmeter > will not be accurate, but will cause no damage. This is *not* > true if you try to measure the resistance of the sensor. > Resistance measurements send voltage into a circuit and check the > amount returning. > >--> end of quotation <-- > >So Steven's input confuses me a bit. May I apply voltage to an O2 sensor >or not? Any inputs welcome. > >Jens > > > The o2 sensor amplifiers we use apply a bias of 450 millivolts to the sensor through a 1.2 meg resistor. This voltage can be seen across the PCM input with a good digital voltmeter. When the sensor is cold, and has a very high output impedance, this bias will cause the system to indicate a steady half scale voltage. When the sensor warms up to about 600 F, it begins to function and this source is swamped out. To scale the o2 output you should build an op amp circuit with a couple of meg ohms of input impedance and I would guess about 100 - 200k of output impedance. I don't know how your system functions with a cold sensor. The control system should not "learn" out your adjustment to the system because it is made in the feedback portion of the loop. As long as it still switches correctly everything should work fine. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com Of course, all responses are my own and should not be mistaken for those of Delco Electronics or General Motors. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 15:18:25 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA20396; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:00:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mistletoe.holli.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA20382; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 11:00:52 -0400 Received: from walnut.holli.com (walnut.holli.com [198.70.38.5]) by mistletoe.holli.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA22391 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:56:47 -0500 Received: from holli-ko-043.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0sz3NM-0009ilC; Sat, 30 Sep 95 09:58 EST Message-Id: Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 09:58 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: injector sizing X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > >On Thu, 28 Sep 1995 mwc@lubrizol.com wrote> > >> Before I add a hot cam, can I oversize my injectors without >> any negative effects? I think stock is 19 lb/hr, and I'd like >> 25 - 30 lb/hr. I would think that open-loop mode would run >> too rich; if I'm right, can it be adjusted on L-Jet? > >Why bother? If you change them the computer will lean the fuelling out on >part throttle (closed loop) and you will be too rich on open loop so you >are going to lean it out mechanically. Leave it like it is and take >Bruces suggestion of an increase in fuel pressure. There is enough fuel >for approximately 15% more power than the stock engine can supply with >the stock injectors > >Peter Wales >President Superchips > > Of course, increasing the fuel pressure will have the same effect. Its safe to say that other than removing stupid things like rev limiters, etc. making mods to the stock controller without mechanical changes is pointless. The OEMs spend a lot of time tuing for optimum power and emissions. Increasing fuel flow without making any other engine changes to inrease airflow will probably have little if any affect. Start out with a set of headers, a good exhaust and induction system you will probably be able to increase fuel pressuer enough to get you back to the "zero" baseline. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com Of course, all responses are my own and should not be mistaken for those of Delco Electronics or General Motors. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 19:21:46 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA20848; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:16:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wave.sheridan.wy.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA20834; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:16:42 -0400 Received: from (slip3.wave.sheridan.wy.us [204.120.134.43]) by wave.sheridan.wy.us (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA14265 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:32:10 -0600 Message-Id: Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 12:39:46 PDT From: jac@wave.sheridan.wy.us (john carroll) To: DIY_EFI Subject: GM fuel injection manual # Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu my GM "FUEL INJECTION" manual is 16009.10-1 I got it form a kid that went to a training class and could not imagine what he would do afterwards with all the books that they gave to him. the number was worn off the front but i finally found it on the back (imagine!). According to the cover it was published in 1986, but it refers to later models. Try Delco training centers for these books. There is one in denver. Must be others. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 21:24:02 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA20988; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 21:19:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-5.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA20974; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:19:10 -0400 Received: by arl-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id RAA04346; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:18:53 -0400 Date: 30 Sep 95 17:17:36 EDT From: Martin Evans <100341.377@compuserve.com> To: "J.W. Harris" , DIY EFI Mailing List Subject: Re: ALDL Data Stream Decoding Message-ID: <950930211735_100341.377_EHQ88-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Mon, 18 Sep 95 jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) wrote: >I was at a SAE OBDII toptec and found this out about avialability of ALDL >data information: >The final rule for avialability of emission service related information >is contained in the Federal Register Vol. 60, No. 153, Wednesday, >Aug., 9 1995. Page 40474. >This rule requires manufacturers to make avialable all serivce information >supplied to dealers at a reasonable cost. >There is an online computer system called FedWorld which can be accessed >up to 3 hours a day at 703-321-3339. This tells what is available, where >and the cost. It can be also accessed by telneting to fedworld.gov. >The Equipment and Tool Institute, 1806 Johns Drive, Glenview, IL 60025-1657 >708-729-8550, 708-729-3670 (fax) provides a annual forum called the Domestic >Tech Week where (scan)tool makers meet with the big three to discuss new >model changes including Class II data stream information. Has anyone followed this up and obtained the specs for ALDL or found out what reasonable cost is? From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 22:00:58 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA21061; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 21:50:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.pilot.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA21047; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 17:50:41 -0400 Received: from verity.com (unknown-143-5.verity.com [192.187.143.5]) by mail.pilot.net (8.7/8.7.Beta.12) with SMTP id OAA26724 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:50:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cato.verity.com by verity.com (4.1/SMI-4.1_Verity-Main-950202) id AA22605; Sat, 30 Sep 95 14:49:29 PDT From: neville@Verity.COM (Neville Newman) Received: (neville@localhost) by cato.verity.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA20811 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:50:28 -0700 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:50:28 -0700 Message-Id: <199509302150.OAA20811@cato.verity.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: injector sizing Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu [comments about the downside of bumping un your injector sizes] i was too poor to afford agtermarket programmable EFI, so i solved this problem by installing a non-constant fuel pressure regulator. i got mine from Camden Superchargers on a beta test, and they made a couple of changes to the housing based on my comments, but i think it is stil available with the same design. They use two different size rubber diaphragms (one open to intake vacuum, the other to fuel bleed-off) to cause a linear increase in net fuel pressure as the vacuum on the reference port decreases. It worked like a charm. i also bumped my injector sizes because i was playing with M85 fuel at the time (requires richer mixture by volume) but that would not generally be necessary. i was able to reduce the baseline pressure, and use a large enough diaphragm ratio to achieve a nicely lean 18:1 A/F ratio at no-load/light-load cruise, and a healthy 12.5:1 ratio at full throttle. Camden was in Dallas, i believe, but i don't have their info here with me. For those who want a more expensive, but less tweakable, British version, Microdynamics markets a similar regulator. -neville From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 23:32:18 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA21240; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 23:22:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA21226; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:22:24 -0400 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA21762 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:22:12 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:22:12 -0400 Message-ID: <950930192211_69766854@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: EFI conputer prices Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Well, I always buy 'wrecking yard' ECMs. The price I am willing to pay is not over 35 USD. The thought of 2850 dollars (AUS) just scares me. I would not dare open the case! FIScot @aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Sep 30 23:42:56 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA21276; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 23:33:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA21262; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 19:33:31 -0400 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0szBO3-000CuOC; Sat, 30 Sep 95 18:32 CDT Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: injector sizing To: DIY_EFI Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:32:07 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199509302150.OAA20811@cato.verity.com> from "Neville Newman" at Sep 30, 95 02:50:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 570 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Neville Newman writes: > Camden was in Dallas, i believe, but i don't have their info > here with me. For those who want a more expensive, but less > tweakable, British version, Microdynamics markets a similar > regulator. Last time I checked, Camden is in Austin, TX on Breaker Ln. 1-512-555-1212 -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.edge.net/~lusky/ (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Oct 1 03:29:27 1995 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA21665; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 03:25:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.pilot.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA21651; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 23:25:47 -0400 Received: from verity.com (unknown-143-5.verity.com [192.187.143.5]) by mail.pilot.net (8.7/8.7.Beta.12) with SMTP id UAA29858 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 20:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cato.verity.com by verity.com (4.1/SMI-4.1_Verity-Main-950202) id AA26245; Sat, 30 Sep 95 20:24:35 PDT From: neville@Verity.COM (Neville Newman) Received: (neville@localhost) by cato.verity.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA20954 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 20:25:34 -0700 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 20:25:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199510010325.UAA20954@cato.verity.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: injector sizing Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Jonathan R. Lusky writes: > Neville Newman writes: > > Camden Superchargers, in Dallas, i believe > Last time i checked, Camden is in Austin, TX on Breaker Ln. > 1-512-555-1212 Thanks for the correction. i'm in California, and everything the other side of the Sierras is all the same to us !!