From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 4 23:03:51 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA01334; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:01:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from nic.cerf.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA01329; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 18:00:59 -0500 Received: from mailserv.ada.com (ada.com [199.106.6.41]) by nic.cerf.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA21552 for ; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dax.ada.com by mailserv.ada.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA19749; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:00:42 -0800 Received: from pacific.ada.com by dax.ada.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA26693; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:00:41 -0800 Received: by pacific.ada.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA27044; Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:00:40 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:00:40 -0800 From: prasad@ada.com (krishna prasad) Message-Id: <9601042300.AA27044@pacific.ada.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Pulse width program for twin and single cyl engines.. Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I was browsing through the www site and noticed that the pulse width program has only 4/8/12 cyl eng options. I am working on a FI sys for single and twin cyl engs for motorcycles. Does anyone know how I can get the pulse width data for a single or twin cyl engines.. Also, has anyone experimented with the miniboard from the media lab (MIT). Thanks.. Krishna. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 05:17:25 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA02230; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 05:07:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA02225; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:07:30 -0500 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma024380; Fri Jan 5 09:58:00 1996 Received: from cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au(144.135.109.134) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma010383; Fri Jan 5 16:05:47 1996 Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU (shiva.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.20.34]) by cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA22322 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:05:47 +1100 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id QAA06880 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:05:40 +1100 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199601050505.QAA06880@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: WWW pages.. To: DIY_EFI Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:05:39 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 501 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, probably been mentioned before, but: http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/tocdoc.htm has a few interesting bits and peices of EFI info, specifically: http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/tocdoc12.htm#Chap12 http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/tocdoc07.htm http://www.autosite.com/garage/encyclop/tocdoc13.htm#Chap13 Anyone know of any pages with some automotive electrical connector manufacturers/resellers? I found the AMP page (www.amp.com) but it didn't have much. Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 05:41:32 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA02287; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 05:34:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from genesis.nred.ma.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA02281; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:34:23 -0500 Received: from mvarc.UUCP by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id AAA01549; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:20:28 -0500 Received: from an by mvarc.n-andover.ma.us with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0tY2QC-0002jKC; Thu, 4 Jan 96 22:02 EST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 22:02 EST From: adh@an.bradford.ma.us To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Gasification Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Markus Strobl [] The basis of the principle was to run the intake charge very hot. The secret was to do this without detonation. one cancels the other [according to smokey] -- the trick is to run it hot enough so that the gasoline gasifies completely, like lpg. the turbo was to maintain charge density and increase mixing. _______________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics adh@an.bradford.ma.us ---Schroedinger From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 16:08:19 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA03707; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:01:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA03702; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:01:06 -0500 Received: by bchnetgw.bchydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03990; Fri, 5 Jan 96 08:01:01 PST Received: from bchgate.bchydro.bc.ca by bchnetgw via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma003983; Fri Jan 5 08:00:54 1996 Received: by BCHydro.bc.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14074; Fri, 5 Jan 96 08:00:39 PST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 08:00:39 PST Message-Id: <9601051600.AA14074@BCHydro.bc.ca> Received: from unknown by bchgate via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma014003; Fri Jan 5 08:00:02 1996 X-Sender: beggs@bchgate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: John.Beggs@BCHydro.bc.ca (John W. Beggs) Subject: Electronic Ignition X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Not exactly efi but still related, would someone explain the input circuit of a ignition module driven from a magnetic pickup. The magnetic pickup output is a low level AC signal and it drives what? Thanks. -------------------------------------- | John W. Beggs, | | BC Hydro, | | 6911 Southpoint Drive, | | Burnaby, B.C., V3N 4X8, Canada. | | (604)528-2776; FAX (604) 528-1883| -------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 17:37:31 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA04982; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 17:29:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mana.eecs.uic.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA04977; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:29:10 -0500 Received: (from rorem@localhost) by mana.eecs.uic.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA02187; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:28:53 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:28:53 -0600 From: Doug Rorem Subject: Re: Automotive Electronics Journal To: diy_efi, mrb@mail.mpx.com.au Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >To all, >could someone help me find the fax and phone number for a magazine I used to >get years ago. It was called the "Automotive Electronics Journal" and had >great information on automotive/engine management electronics. I'm not sure >if it is still published. >The old address I have is: PO Box 3011, Southeastern,PA 19398-3011 USA. > > regards, > Mark Boxsell. Mark... | TITLE: Automotive electronics journal. | PLACE: [New York, N.Y. : |PUBLISHER: Fairchild Publications, | YEAR: 1989 9999 | PUB TYPE: Serial | FORMAT: v. : ill. ; 38 cm. |FREQUENCY: Biweekly |NUMBERING: Began with Oct. 9, 1989 issue? | NOTES: Description based on: Vol. 1, no. 7 (Oct. 23, 1989); title from | caption. | ISSN: 1054-4828; 1041-9934; 1041-9334 | SUBJECT: Automobiles -- Electronic equipment -- Periodicals. |ALT TITLE: Automotive electronics journal | Automotive electronic news 1041-9934 (DLC)sn 88003382 | (OCoLC)18899105 The computer I checked said that it's held only at the Library of Congress (Washington DC) and at Rockwell International in Michigan which looked strange. I called Fairchild (book division) in New York and they said the journal was stopped a long time ago and wasn't picked up by anyone else. Fairchild Books & Visuals 7 E 12th Street NY, NY 10003 phone # 800-247-6622 212-887-1866 -- Doug Rorem University of Illinois at Chicago (312)-996-5439 [voice] EECS Department RM 1120 (312)-413-1065 [fax] 851 S. Morgan Street (708)-996-2226 [pager] Chicago, IL 60607-7053 rorem@uic.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 18:11:36 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA05338; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:08:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spsgate.sps.mot.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA05331; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:08:00 -0500 Received: from mogate (mogate.sps.mot.com) by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA22972 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Jan 96 11:07:54 MST Received: from txbc.sps.mot.com ([192.88.171.200]) by mogate (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.0) id AA25994; Fri, 5 Jan 96 11:07:51 MST Received: from roadster.sps.mot.com by txbc.sps.mot.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20450; Fri, 5 Jan 96 12:07:50 -0600 Received: by roadster.autotest (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03923; Fri, 5 Jan 96 12:02:16 CST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 12:02:16 CST From: walter@roadster.sps.mot.com (thomas walter x5955) Message-Id: <9601051802.AA03923@roadster.autotest> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Not exactly efi but still related, would someone explain the input circuit > of a ignition module driven from a magnetic pickup. The magnetic pickup > output is a low level AC signal and it drives what? Input circuitry would be a comparator. The signal will grow with rpms, some some sort of gain circuitry should be used to provide an offset reference. Darn, really wish I could sketch a simple circuit (It is pretty straight forward once you see it). Might be easiest to try to find a datasheet for a "High Energy Ignition Circuit" such as the Motorola MC3334P. (The datasheet note "designed to serve the aftermarket Delco five terminal ignition applications"). Hmm, not sure if that device is being built anymore (it is listed in my '88 edition of the Motorola Linear and Interface databook). Tom Walter Austin, TX. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 18:58:34 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA05599; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:54:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail2.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA05594; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:54:21 -0500 Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com id AB11234 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:54:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199601051854.AB11234@internet-mail2.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:54:29 -0500 Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:54:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:54:21 +0500 From: ehernan3@ford.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Gasification X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 980 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu "Despite up-front speculation, things don't appear to work that way. BMEP/BTU for propane and NG are no better than for gasoline engines, except at very low RPM." That's primarily because the energy content(MJ/kg) of propane and NG are nearly the same as gasoline, not because of droplet size. But since gaseous fuels DO displace more volume, propane(and especially NG) mixtures have less bang for the buck in terms of MJ/m^3. No practical fuel can beat gasoline for this, especially when completely vaporized, which is another reason why propane and NG are no better. Droplet size DOES affect fuel conversion efficiency, which is pretty good for gasoline to begin with. But more importantly, smaller drops increase burn rates, which allow one to run the engine much leaner and/or consume more EGR, both of which reduce feedgas emissions and improve fuel efficiency significantly. Faster burn rates allow higher compression ratios, which increases fuel efficiency and power. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 19:24:11 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA05755; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:17:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA05750; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:17:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199601051917.OAA05750@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA058069449; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:17:29 -0500 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 14:17:27 EST In-Reply-To: <9601051802.AA03923@roadster.autotest>; from "thomas walter x5955" at Jan 05, 96 12:02 (noon) X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ Might be easiest to try to find a datasheet for a "High ~ Energy Ignition Circuit" such as the Motorola MC3334P. (The ~ datasheet note "designed to serve the aftermarket Delco five ~ terminal ignition applications"). Hmm, not sure if that device ~ is being built anymore (it is listed in my '88 edition of the ~ Motorola Linear and Interface databook). ~ ~ Tom Walter ~ Austin, TX. ~ ~ I just "discovered" the National chip LM1815, which is an adaptive reluctance amplifier. The neat thing about this chip is it has different triggering modes, one of which is the adaptive mode which requires the positive input spike to be at least 80% of the preceeding pulse, in order to reduce fale triggerings. The chip produces a pulse on zero-crossing (positive to negative) and has an on-board triggered one-shot. They cost around $3.50 and looks like it is available. - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 21:39:27 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA06709; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:29:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA06703; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:29:19 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id OAA09764 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:15:37 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:30 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:20:34 EDT Message-Id: <9600052120.AA17143@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Vendor List To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:20:31 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: <199601041410.JAA12596@moe.infi.net>; from "Orin B. Harding" at Jan 4, 96 9:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Attached to this note is a self-extracting zip file that will > produce a MS Word doccument named Vendor.Doc...Hopefully this will > solve the format problems with the earlier list... > First, I would like to say that you haven't solved my problem. My mail system is a UNIX based OS that has a standard mail package. Problem is that it will not accept any form of binary attachment unless it is UUENCODED. UUENCODing is supposed to be the norm on the Internet, but with the proliferation of new software seems it is being ignored. Secondly, to the authors whose word processor doesn't end lines with a CRLF, --- YER PISSIN' ME OFF! My mail system simply crashes when it receives a message with a line length of 3874 characters, and it takes me an hour to recover from it so's I can read my mail. I don't know if I'm the only one with these problems. If so, I'll shut up and wait for a software upgrade. Used to be, everyone was nice and stuck to the Internet standards, now it seems that you can ignore the rules and damn the inconvenience to anybody else. Those are my thoughts, not yours dn -- \/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 21:52:38 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA06967; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:44:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA06960; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:44:18 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id OAA09774 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:35:52 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:50 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:26:59 EDT Message-Id: <9600052126.AA17144@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:26:56 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: <9601051802.AA03923@roadster.autotest>; from "thomas walter x5955" at Jan 5, 96 12:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Not exactly efi but still related, would someone explain the input circuit > > of a ignition module driven from a magnetic pickup. The magnetic pickup > Might be easiest to try to find a datasheet for a "High > Energy Ignition Circuit" such as the Motorola MC3334P. (The Allegro Microsystems makes the chip used in the 7 pin GM module. Their data sheet is a bit brief, but explains the internal workings to a certain degree. I think motorola is still making the 3334 for aftermarket module makers. Either company may have application notes for the devices which would be a wealth of info. dn -- \/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 21:52:43 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA06975; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 21:45:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA06968; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:45:01 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id OAA09773 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:35:46 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:50 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:35:44 EDT Message-Id: <9600052135.AA17145@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:35:41 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: <199601022218.RAA16027@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu>; from "Miller,Brad" at Jan 2, 96 5:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Re: > Racetech Engineering > Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. > Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 > Phone: (403) 274-0154 Since I live in Calgary, I gave these guys a call. The system they sell is for port injection only (no TBI) and is a fuel only system at present (no ignition control) They are in the process of revamping the design to include full Engine Management capabilities. This unit will be coming out mid 96. The good thing about it, it's cheap. Comes with LCD display/programmer, MAP and O2 sensors, and it's $CDN860, which is a little over US$600. Sounds ok in principle, I got some brochures coming in the mail, if it sounds good I'll go take a look. If anyone wants updates, drop me a line... dn -- \/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 23:23:06 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA07586; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:15:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linet01.li.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA07581; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:15:55 -0500 Received: from lisuser17.li.net (lisuser17.li.net [199.173.74.117]) by linet01.li.net (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA09179 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:16:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:16:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199601052316.SAA09179@linet01.li.net> X-Sender: jgn@li.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: jgn@li.net (John G. Napoli) Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I am interested in the info as to what you find.........thanks! > > >Re: > >> Racetech Engineering >> Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. >> Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 >> Phone: (403) 274-0154 > >Since I live in Calgary, I gave these guys a call. The system they >sell is for port injection only (no TBI) and is a fuel only system at >present (no ignition control) They are in the process of revamping the >design to include full Engine Management capabilities. This unit will >be coming out mid 96. The good thing about it, it's cheap. Comes >with LCD display/programmer, MAP and O2 sensors, and it's $CDN860, >which is a little over US$600. Sounds ok in principle, I got some >brochures coming in the mail, if it sounds good I'll go take a look. >If anyone wants updates, drop me a line... > >dn > > > >-- >\/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\/ Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca /\ >\/ Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell /\ >\/ Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 /\ >\/ Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 /\ >\/ @ + /\ >\/ < /\ >\/ __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" /\ >\/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/\ > > > Napoli From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 23:35:15 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA07640; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:30:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from xmission.xmission.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA07635; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:29:58 -0500 Received: from xmission.xmission.com (slc165.xmission.com [204.228.136.165]) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA08571 for ; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:29:43 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199601052329.QAA08571@xmission.xmission.com> X-Sender: lndshrk@xmission.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 16:29:54 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Land Shark Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Vendor List Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 14:20 1/5/96 MDT, you wrote: >First, I would like to say that you haven't solved my problem. My >mail system is a UNIX based OS that has a standard mail package. Step one ... get PINE installed >Problem is that it will not accept any form of binary attachment >unless it is UUENCODED. UUENCODing is supposed to be the norm on the >Internet, but with the proliferation of new software seems it is being >ignored. Not any more .. MIME is the STANDARD for Binary *attachments* >Used to be, everyone was nice and stuck to >the Internet standards, now it seems that you can ignore the rules and >damn the inconvenience to anybody else. Nope, the standards changed :) Jim From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 5 23:42:04 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA07706; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:37:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mbox.ualr.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA07701; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 18:37:57 -0500 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #4503) id <01HZNE7T8DJK00009D@UALR.EDU>; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:24:45 CDT Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 05:50:00 +0000 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Gasification To: diy_efi Message-id: <219095.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 X-Envelope-to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu -> ity, and BSFC. It was presented to the Big Three, who dismissed the -> i= dea for a variety of reasons, all of which disgusted the inventor. -> Hi= s name was Smokey Yunick, about whose reputation I have mixed -> feeling= s. Ah, the Yunick Miracle Motor, the essential parts of which were "secret." Yunick used an interheater instead of an intercooler, very little water jacketing, and claimed to run the engine at temperatures approaching thermonuclear meltdown. He claimed the turbocharger was "just a check valve" and produced no boost. I never figured out how he kept it from detonating to bits. Supposedly GM and VW were both curious enough to pony up for a look, but the results were never made public. After a few typical Popular Science gosh-wow articles, the thing faded away. Yunick was a columnist for Popular Science. Yunick spent his last days at Circle Track, raving about pelicans, green cards, calling for the government to support NASCAR, and writing articles on the history of the small block Chevy which didn't agree with anything previously published. He disappeared from CT without so much as a by-your-leave a couple of issues ago. Whether he got canned for advancing senility, or if it was a result of CT's recent editorial shuffle and realignment as a "fan" magazine, I don't know. ====dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us========================DoD#978======= can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT ==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92== From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 6 00:23:04 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA07839; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:17:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from qsi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA07834; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:17:50 -0500 Received: from qsirmt06.qsi.com by qsi.com (4.1/3.2.012693-Quality Systems Incorporated); id AA05803 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Jan 96 19:18:35 EST Received: by qsirmt06.qsi.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BADBA2.797F9820@qsirmt06.qsi.com>; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:17:37 -0600 Message-Id: <01BADBA2.797F9820@qsirmt06.qsi.com> From: Jim Pearl To: "'Orin B. Harding'" Cc: "'DIY_EFI'" , "'Fordnatics'" Subject: RE: CRANE EFI System - InterACQ package Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:17:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BADBA2.797F9820" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BADBA2.797F9820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Orin, I'm CC'ing the Fordnatics list on this note as there may be many = Ford guys out there interested in this product - I hope you don't mind.=20 As for the vendor list, it worked fine for me on my PC using MS Exchange = (yeah I know - UNIX the prob - got WINZIP so you can TAR it?). I'm = pretty new to the Internet but perhaps one of the more knowledgeable = Ford guys could give you a suggestion as to how best to distribute a = large text list of EFI vendors (hint hint). BTW Ford guys, when replying = keep in mind that this mailing is going to the DIY_EFI list too so be = careful about the "reply to all" so we don't foul that list - thanks! P.S. I wrote this as I read the manual that I received from John = Mccauley (prez Saleen club). He bought the package and thought I'd be = interested in it - I'm in turn sharing it with you - I may ramble a bit = in the text (grin) - be kind! What I've got is the instruction manual for a product called InterACQ. = It's not from Crane but rather from the guy who built the Interceptor = and licensed it to Crane. The InterACQ is both a software and hardware = package for the Interceptor and Mazda PMS units. You must replace at least two EPROMs and modify the circuit board to = accept higher capacity EPROMS (one jumper). It mentions that this last = mod isn't required for PMS units which I believe are the boxes sold by = Peter Farrel here in Manassas for the RX7. It's interesting to note = while reading through the instructions that the InterACQ software = somehow registers the particular Interceptor unit as some sort of copy = protection. With some of the new chips the unit gains the ability to = work with both Mass Air and Speed Density computers. The new "off road" = chips allow you to change warm up parameters, allows it's use on 4,6,&8 = cylinder Fords. You can make "global compensations" that effect ALL = ranges of the computer such as idle, cruise, etc.. You can change the = idle speed and the speed that the idle motor reacts - however this part = won't work with the newest Crane units since it's missing some of the = circuitry (SN02460 and above). It gives you two data acquisition screens = - one for CGA\VGA that's text and faster than the VGA only graphical = display. It allows you to set triggers for RPM and throttle opening to start and = terminate automatic data logging. The software can play back data that = has been logged and show what portion of the Interceptors data table is = being accessed for easy modification - including portions you can't = change directly because of interpolation of values. These tables show things like boost, WOT, Extended RPM, and part = throttle maps. You can log Duty cycle, Timing (assumes distributor in = STOCK location), O2 (L/R) in volts like the DFI, TPS sensor in % = (remember this is used to trigger accessories like NOS with the = Interceptor), Mass Airflow in lbs/hr of air, manifold pressure in inches = - also the optional boost MAP sensor, and the temp of Air and Water - = this is great for those Vortech guys to see just how HOT that intake air = is (grin) - love that intercooler! Net fuel and timing adjustments are = also displayed and logged - such as 8% for boost + 10% adjustment from = WOT=3D18% total. Status of the smart inputs and smart switches is also = displayed. The instructions go on to describe how the Interceptor is setup to = trigger manually and automatically. A caution about the fact that data = is stored in RAM is mentioned and then goes on to tell how to download = it - remember because of the 640K limit you only get about 12 minutes of = data - still not too shabby! My DFI does like 15 seconds at full tilt! = It doesn't mention how quickly it grabs data, the DFI does it as fast as = the processor allows and delivers reams. On a normal log though it's = only once per second and that's really bad - I can go from 2000 RPM to = redline and into the next gear sometimes in that time period - not cool = for troubleshooting! The manual then goes on to describe how the data can be converted to = text and looked at via a text editor. From looking at it I can tell you = that some serious macros in Excel or something will have to be done - = the DFI output is MUCH easier. The Interceptor software here will = actually give you numbers that represent the voltages of things like = temp sensors etc.. The software doesn't make these conversions from the = A to D converter so it's a little weird. Of course since my DFI is using = a few Ford sensors some of the readings for Water temp and such are off. = The Air temp appears correct though, bet some of the Vortech guys wish = they could have ambient +10 degrees or so going into their intake = (smile). One last thing that looked nice - the software manual mentions that = there are a few maintenance menus - one of which allows updates to the = software as well as backups for some of the data contained in the unit = (with some bold cautions earlier in the manual about that). Another note as I read this back over - John mentioned beating on them = to create a handheld unit with a backlit display and other features. If = you're serious about using the Interceptor like at least one friend of = mine you know that the lack of a backlight is a real pain in the rear! = If you want this and other features contact these people. I know they've = been working on this software and other features for at least a couple = of years. I nearly went with an Interceptor years ago but didn't because = I'd have had to rely on a friend of a friend buddy buddy thing to get = this software bootleg - I understand that back then it was against his = marketing agreements for this guy to sell it per Crane. He's out from = under them now apparently and I'm told that he's a good guy (I've spoken = some to him and had a good experience years ago). I don't remember the = price quoted for this software but it wasn't too bad. I'll update = everyone as I get more info. I'd really like to hear more about the Ford = piggyback I understand will be released sometime late in '96 too... The company's name is Plus 1 Micro, Inc. P.O. Box 1781 - Lawrenceville, = GA - 30246-1781. No phone number seen in the manual but I'll try to get = it for everyone. Last but not least I swear - anyone interested in trading DFI MAPS or = discussing the system i.e. tricks and tips for programming it contact = me, I'm cooperative but not real good when it comes to tuning I'm afraid = (sigh). Hope this was helpful! ---------- >From: Orin B. Harding[SMTP:orin@nr.infi.net] Sent: Friday, January 05, 1996 8:12 AM To: JVP@qsi.com Subject: CRANE EFI System Jim, Would you please post the information you have on the CRANE EFI = system...Also, I've had several negative comments regarding the VENDOR = list zip file, those without PC based systems cannot read the file. Any = suggestions as to how I should send this file to make it usable to all? = Thanks... 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RAEG0iIwKOIMMv5AUEP/WJGXY6qDPHFIMK9l+KPcM/+coVbgAYA6YPJhABFI4ghy/4hhhDGmUQxB hbEt8Vg13EJ/8fIwI1Ih51ABEOL0CYE//5ywJyBIMKtwmS+9E72VpsGeR0GhLhB7gJwyTkNWBRAo Jzc0m/BHQi3sR1SmweiQOejC92D60f+nwVkimLACkJ8QELDpED1wmEJSRzgiNOQhKVYMr8+f0K/R vFYFfVYAAPDQAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzCA5zhazNu6AUAACDCA5zhazNu6AR4APQABAAAA BQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAEqU= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BADBA2.797F9820-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 6 00:31:21 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA07894; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:27:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA07889; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:27:10 -0500 From: MTaylorfi@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA03493 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:27:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:27:09 -0500 Message-ID: <960105192708_107683007@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Gasification Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey there, It was asked if efficiencies came from the turbo or "gasification". Like jets engines that use regeneration, some of energy that is lost out thru the exhausr pipe is "pumped" back into the engine. Gee, I actually learned something in Thermo. See ya, Mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 6 03:29:25 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA08325; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 03:24:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id WAA08319; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:24:02 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:24:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199601060324.WAA08319@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com (Miller,Brad) Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hmm - - the brochures that I got had the ignition module in it - - cost for basic fuel mixture was $682. Ignition control was $903 and Full (with knock control) was $1003. Interesting to know if it isn't really available yet . . . . otherwise I got those brochures and instructions in error . . . . hmm . . . ---------- <*>From: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu <*>To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu <*>Cc: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu <*>Subject: RE: More EFI vendor info >> SDS EM-1 <*>Date: Friday, January 05, 1996 12:35PM <*> <*> <*> <*>Re: <*> <*>> Racetech Engineering <*>> Bay G 1007 55th Ave. N.E. <*>> Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2E6W1 <*>> Phone: (403) 274-0154 <*> <*>Since I live in Calgary, I gave these guys a call. The system they <*>sell is for port injection only (no TBI) and is a fuel only system at <*>present (no ignition control) They are in the process of revamping the <*>design to include full Engine Management capabilities. This unit will <*>be coming out mid 96. The good thing about it, it's cheap. Comes <*>with LCD display/programmer, MAP and O2 sensors, and it's $CDN860, <*>which is a little over US$600. Sounds ok in principle, I got some <*>brochures coming in the mail, if it sounds good I'll go take a look. <*>If anyone wants updates, drop me a line... <*> <*>dn <*> <*> <*> <*>-- <*>\/<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<\/ Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca /\ <*>\/ Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell /\ <*>\/ Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 /\ <*>\/ Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 /\ <*>\/ @ + /\ <*>\/ < /\ <*>\/ __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" /\ <*>\/>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>/\ <*> From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 6 03:40:39 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA08405; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 03:35:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hermes.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA08398; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:35:11 -0500 Received: from INTEL7.intel.com by hermes.intel.com (8.7.1/10.0i); Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:34:49 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 19:35:02 PST From: "Clinton L. Corbin" Message-Id: <9601060335.utk12923@INTEL7.intel.com> X-To: HERMES::"diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Re: Gasification To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 6 03:48:31 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA08632; Sat, 6 Jan 1996 03:44:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hermes.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA08627; Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:44:27 -0500 Received: from INTEL7.intel.com by hermes.intel.com (8.7.1/10.0i); Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:35:21 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 19:44:25 PST From: "Clinton L. Corbin" Message-Id: <9601060344.utk12943@INTEL7.intel.com> X-To: HERMES::"diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Re: Gasification To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hey there, > >It was asked if efficiencies came from the turbo or "gasification". Like >jets engines that use regeneration, some of energy that is lost out thru the >exhausr pipe is "pumped" back into the engine. Gee, I actually learned >something in Thermo. > >See ya, > >Mike Just want to add my two cents about this engine! If I remember right, he was heating the air BEFORE it was compressed. The regeneration used on turbines is AFTER compression, but before it reaches the combustion chamber. Adding heat after compression is good, adding it before is bad. That was one area of that motor that just didn't ring true. Besides, you can bet you bottom dollar that if this motor was really so great, GM or Ford (or Honda, or Toyota, or ...) would have jumped on it. Look how much money they spend each year trying to make motors just a little bit "cleaner" and a little bit more fuel efficient. Any of the "it was bought out because it was too good" conspiricies (SP?) are a joke. The laws of thermodynamics are pretty much set. One more thing to think about: if it really was so good, way didn't they release any hard data on the thing? Just something to think about. Clint ccorbin@intel7.intel.com -- Needless to say, nothing I chat about has anything to do with my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 7 15:14:48 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA11096; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 14:53:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from iquest1.iquest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA11091; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 09:53:44 -0500 Received: from walnut.holli.com by iquest1.iquest.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #11) id m0tYwTg-000BDgC; Sun, 7 Jan 96 09:53 EST Received: from rus-ts2-19.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0tYwRN-0009inC; Sun, 7 Jan 96 09:51 EST Message-Id: Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 09:51 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Allegro Microsystems makes the chip used in the 7 pin GM module. I was told that this is an aftermarket copy of our chip. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@eng.delcoelect.com jwharris@holli.com Of course, all responses are my own and should not be mistaken for those of Delco Electronics or General Motors. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 7 22:51:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA12195; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:42:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA12190; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:41:56 -0500 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id ad18625; 7 Jan 96 21:56 GMT Received: from clintsmc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.122.156]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa25001; 7 Jan 96 21:56 GMT Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:38:41 GMT From: Clint Sharp Message-Id: <477@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> To: diy_efi Subject: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS X-User: Approved: yes Lines: 15 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu A friend has just acquired a 1989 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth and is experiencing some problems with the turbo. If the car is driven on boost then all is fine until it comes off boost. When he accelerates again the turbo doesn't produce any boost (at least it doesn't feel like it, no spine snapping acceleration) and acts like a fast 2l car. Any suggestions? (I've been elected to fix it as he thinks it's an electrical fault) The ECU has been modified and he hasn't got the original chip. Does anyone have a copy of the standard chip they can mail me? Any suggestions as to the cause of the problem would be gladly accepted. -- We apologise for the lack of coherent humorous comments. Normal service will be resumed shortly. clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 8 00:43:45 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA12354; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:33:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA12349; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:33:27 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm5-04.magicnet.net [204.96.116.154]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA24182 for ; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:33:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199601080033.TAA24182@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 20:30:56 -0500 To: diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >A friend has just acquired a 1989 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth >and is experiencing some problems with the turbo. If the car is >driven on boost then all is fine until it comes off boost. It sounds like the wastegate actuator is sticking and leaving the wastegate open. It'll stay that way until the turbo cools off. Contact ian Sandford at Superchips on 01280 816781 for a standard chip. He'll do one cheap for you if you want it. Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Chairman Superchips Ltd "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 8 05:36:20 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA12794; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 05:29:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA12789; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:29:26 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id WAA12371 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:20:35 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Sun, 7 Jan 96 22:36 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Sun, 7 Jan 96 22:29:03 EDT Message-Id: <9600080529.AA17186@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition To: diy_efi Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 22:29:01 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: ; from "J.W. Harris" at Jan 7, 96 9:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > I was told that this is an aftermarket copy of our chip. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. I stand corrected. I wasn't aware that Delco made their own chips. The statement I made was based on the fact that I had hung a scope on a 7 pin module, and it behaved exactly as the datasheet said it would, and also in a telephone conversation with an Allegro applications engineer a while back on an unrelated topic, he mentioned that most of the automotive chips they sell are to major automobile manufacturers. I was trying to convince him that while I wasn't GM, and I likely wasn't going to buy a million chips, he should send me some evaluation samples anyway. I asked him directly who he was referring to, but he wouldn't tell me. (note how I did get you to say that this is the type of chip Delco uses even though you said you couldn't confirm this in an earlier thread!) The point is kind of moot, however, since the original question was about pickups and how they work, and aftermarket or not, it still has to behave identically to the original. (at least in theory, other concerns such as reliability, etc. come into play). Allegro may even be a licensed second-source for the part. The data sheet has some information on how to interface to the device, which should come in handy to anyone trying to understand the workings of the HEI. ps how is your ECM project coming along? dn -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 @ + < __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 8 16:47:06 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA13788; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:28:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id LAA13783; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:28:48 -0500 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 11:28:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199601081628.LAA13783@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com (Miller,Brad) Subject: RE: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hmm - - a problem that "I've been told" happens with some turbo cars, is that once your are honking them pretty good, the rings will sometimes align - - thus the thing will smoke a bit and loose some power. After you continue driving them "out of boost" the things will then move around and reseat to where they aren't aligned. Just my 2 cents worth . . . throw back the change . . . <*>A friend has just acquired a 1989 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth <*>and is experiencing some problems with the turbo. If the car is <*>driven on boost then all is fine until it comes off boost. When <*>he accelerates again the turbo doesn't produce any boost (at least <*>it doesn't feel like it, no spine snapping acceleration) and acts <*>like a fast 2l car. Any suggestions? (I've been elected to fix it <*>as he thinks it's an electrical fault) Bradley Miller Xerox Business Services, Kansas City Midwest Shelby Dodge Automobile Club Inc. Email: Brad_Miller@so.xerox.com Alternate: Brad2dbone@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 8 19:08:26 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA14656; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:56:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.bogo.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA14651; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:56:02 -0500 Received: from sian.bogo.co.uk (sian.bogo.co.uk [193.112.165.22]) by mail.bogo.co.uk (8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA22154 for ; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:55:47 GMT Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:55:47 GMT Message-Id: <199601081855.SAA22154@mail.bogo.co.uk> X-Sender: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk (RAGHBIR SIAN) Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >>A friend has just acquired a 1989 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth >>and is experiencing some problems with the turbo. If the car is >>driven on boost then all is fine until it comes off boost. > >It sounds like the wastegate actuator is sticking and leaving the wastegate >open. It'll stay that way until the turbo cools off. > >Contact ian Sandford at Superchips on 01280 816781 for a standard chip. >He'll do one cheap for you if you want it. > >Peter Wales >President Superchips Inc >Chairman Superchips Ltd "Timing is everything" > > It very much sounds like the wastegate like Peter has pointed out, but they also have an uncanny habit of having faulty air temperature sensors. This in turn turns the amal valve to feed the wastegate continously. You did not say whether it is equiped with a catalytic converter, if it is then all the above apply plus the the mixture becomes very rich which can also have the same ish kind of effect. The other place i would look at is the MAP sensor inlet pipe (people snap and glue these ends) Regarding a copy of the original chip you could send me the modified chip and i can tell you what has been changed code wise. The data set that i have is for a GpN car. I disassembled this code including all the other cosworth's as well (sierra 3dr, sapphire 2wd, sapphire 4wd and the Escort cosworth) quit a while back. >From what i have seen from other proms is that nothing is hardly changed apart from the boost cut and reinstate, the rev limits and possibly the fuel map depending on the injectors. If you want some data on the prom i.e. locations for most of the calibration tables then let me know. I hope this helps. RAGHBIR SIAN "As Always A ***CONTROL*** Freak" Engine Control and Combustion analyst E-mail: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk Mob. 0378 653098 RAGHBIR SIAN "As Always A ***CONTROL*** Freak" Engine Control and Combustion analyst E-mail: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk www: http://www.bogo.co.uk/sian/home.html From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 9 06:05:05 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA15800; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 05:54:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix7.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA15795; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 00:54:35 -0500 Received: from by ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id VAA24496; Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:54:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:54:32 -0800 Message-Id: <199601090554.VAA24496@ix7.ix.netcom.com> From: eric_e@ix.netcom.com (Eric Elliott ) Subject: New injection system To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu HI, GMC is selling an injection system that might be least difficult to adapt to your engine. The system does not need fuel manifolds nor injector mounts at each port. GM has V8 and Vsick systems in production now, using an injector pack within the intake manifold. Pressure operated spray valves at the intake ports are connected by plastic lines from individual injection solenoid valves within the pack. The fuel pressure regulator appears to be on the pack. A second unit within the intake manifold might include both the manifold air temp and pressure sensors. Eliminated are much external plumbing, sense lines, and some heat considerations. TRUCKIN’ magazine, volume 22, number 2, February 1996 has description and pictures, plus some info on the thoughts behind the OBD2 system hardware and software. Customer service phone is 714.693.1866 Before you ask, I bought TRUCKIN for the bikini. Eric Elliott From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 01:58:06 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA17588; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:44:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cougar.multiline.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA17583; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 20:44:17 -0500 Received: from at.multiline.com.au ([203.5.127.246]) by cougar.multiline.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA03944 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:34:54 +0800 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:34:54 +0800 Message-Id: <199601100134.JAA03944@cougar.multiline.com.au> X-Sender: at@multiline.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: Adam Tate Subject: Adjustable electronic ignition Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Just a quick question, My Holden Commodore runs a Buick 3.8 litre V6 and uses a crankshaft sensor for the ignition timing. What I want to do is vary the timing, preferably from inside the car. One way to change it, although being non-variable, would be to offset the sensor slightly to obtain a fixed advance or retard in the timing. What I would prefer however, is to intercept the signal before the ECM, and somehow modify it electronically to make it appear that it is advanced slightly. Can I do this with a simple capacitance type delay, or would I need to use a specialised circuit? Also, any ideas what the delay would have to be - milliseconds, nanoseconds ? Ideally I would like to have some sort of dash mounted box with an adjustable dial or something along those lines. All input is most appreciated. Adam Tate. [at@multiline.com.au] http://www.multiline.com.au/~atate/index.html From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 04:25:55 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA17837; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:12:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA17832; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:12:10 -0500 From: KMJMS@aol.com Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA07241 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:12:09 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:12:09 -0500 Message-ID: <960109231202_36987226@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu This is all very interesting. Are your Ford Electronic engine controls the same as FoMoCo of Usa EEC IV system? I would be interested in seeing data about your Ford ECU proms. Kirk Davies From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 04:46:54 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA17860; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 04:30:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA17855; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 23:29:54 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id VAA15201 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:20:55 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Tue, 9 Jan 96 21:26 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Tue, 9 Jan 96 21:27:36 EDT Message-Id: <9600100427.AA17213@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: RE: SDS EM-1 To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 21:27:34 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: <199601052316.SAA09179@linet01.li.net>; from "John G. Napoli" at Jan 5, 96 6:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > I am interested in the info as to what you find.........thanks! > >Re: > > > >> Racetech Engineering SDS EM-1 I just got the brochure in the mail, unit is as follows: "D" unit includes: adjustable parameters: ECU FUEL - 250 RPM increments - 255 points LCD programmer MAP/TPS - 64 points Injector drivers AIR TEMP - 64 points TPS WTR TEMP - 32 points Temp Sensors STARTING - 32 points Wiring Harness ACCEL - 3 points Fuel Trim Ctrl CL LOOP - 5 points BOOST LIMIT REV LIMIT "E" unit adds Coil/amp IGN TIMING - 100 points Crank Sensor KNOCK CONTROL (OPT) Options: MAP sensor O2 sensor Knock Sensor (E only) PRICES: EM-1D EM-1E W/KNOCK 4 cyl $860 $1150 $1295 6 cyl $880 $1170 $1315 8 cyl $935 N/A - (available mid '96) Rotary $890 N/A All prices in $CDN, mult by .72 for $US The programmer looks nifty, has 2 gauge modes for monitoring, you can toggle back and forth between gauge and setup modes, as well as set all parameters with engine running. The reason I originally said the ignition control unit wasn't available yet is 'cause I was interested in the V8 unit... All in all, it looks interesting, one of the days I'm going to drop by this guy's place and see what it looks like "in the flesh". regards dn -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 @ + < __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 05:59:40 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA18023; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:44:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA18017; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:44:16 -0500 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma023010; Wed Jan 10 10:28:10 1996 Received: from cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au(144.135.109.134) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma018469; Wed Jan 10 16:38:27 1996 Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU (shiva.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.20.34]) by cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA06492 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:38:26 +1100 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id QAA11533 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:38:25 +1100 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199601100538.QAA11533@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:38:24 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199601100134.JAA03944@cougar.multiline.com.au> from "Adam Tate" at Jan 10, 96 09:34:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2119 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Just a quick question, > My Holden Commodore runs a Buick 3.8 litre > V6 and uses a crankshaft sensor for the ignition timing. What I want to do > is vary the timing, preferably from inside the car. One way to change it, > although being non-variable, would be to offset the sensor slightly to > obtain a fixed advance or retard in the timing. What I would prefer however, > is to intercept the signal before the ECM, and somehow modify it > electronically to make it appear that it is advanced slightly. > > Can I do this with a simple capacitance type delay, or would I need to use a > specialised circuit? Also, any ideas what the delay would have to be - > milliseconds, nanoseconds ? Ideally I would like to have some sort of dash > mounted box with an adjustable dial or something along those lines. > According to the info I have (for a VN 1988 commodore with 3.8 V6 and GM P3 computer), there are 2 hall effect devices near the harmonic balancer that read pulses from 2 seperate rings. The outer ring has 18 pulses of equal spacing and the inner ring has 3 un-equal length slots & the computer counts how many of the 18 pulses occur in the length of the un-equal pulses to determine where the engine is. (It doesn't need to know if the cylinder's TDC is for the compression or for the exhaust stroke as it uses a wasted spark system). What this means is that electronically adjusting the timing would require microprocessor intervention, NOT a simple capacitor etc delay. you MIGHT be able to fool the micro by clocking the 3 pulse set into a FIFO device, and bump up the clock rate momentarily to get advance etc. but if you break your crank don't blame me. You might be able to do it by the fixed mechanical advance idea and letting the knock sensor tune to computer properly. (& this would be a LOT quicker & simpler to try) I am wondering why you want to do this anyway? I think the extra power you might gain would be less than if you used premium unleaded or a good exhaust system. Cheers, Craig. PS any suggestions for a good source of automotive connectors? From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 14:24:14 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA18521; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:06:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA18516; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:06:23 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm2-24.magicnet.net [204.96.116.114]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA29127; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:06:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199601101406.JAA29127@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:54:01 -0500 To: diy_efi, diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 11:12 PM 1/9/96 -0500, diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: >This is all very interesting. Are your Ford Electronic engine controls the >same >as FoMoCo of Usa EEC IV system? The Cosworth Sierra uses Weber Marelli ECUs and the first ones were simply an EPROM in a socket. LAter on they tried protecting them by scrambling the info but it didn't take too long to decode. They are nothing like an EEC4 as they use a 6803 CPU Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 14:29:49 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA18548; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:17:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from arl-img-4.compuserve.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA18543; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:17:27 -0500 Received: by arl-img-4.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id JAA26750; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:17:14 -0500 Date: 10 Jan 96 09:12:31 EST From: Jeff Hansen <103600.3364@compuserve.com> To: Adam Tate Cc: Anyone Concerned Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition Message-ID: <960110141230_103600.3364_IHI52-1@CompuServe.COM> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I intend to develop an adjustible boost retard system for my car and add it to the fuel injection pulse reducer that I have developed (info on my home page). I am planning on performing the delays digitally using up/down counters, or a small micro. I will probably use an am2051 micro. I think it will be easier to intercept the output signal to the coil, delay it there, and then regenerate it. When I get it working I will post design information on my home page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Jeff_Hansen From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 17:05:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA18713; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 16:55:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from igate1.hac.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA18708; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:55:51 -0500 Received: from EDEN1.HAC.COM by igate1.hac.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08987; Wed, 10 Jan 96 08:53:31 PST Received: from daedalus.hdos.hac.com by EDEN1.HAC.COM (PMDF V4.3-13 #5884) id <01HZU8GQAPOW001OWA@EDEN1.HAC.COM>; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: From HDOS_DPC/WORKQUEUE by daedalus.hdos.hac.com via Charon-4.0A-VROOM with IPX id 100.960110115335.384; 10 Jan 96 11:55:41 +0500 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:51:23 ET From: John T Stein Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition To: diy_efi Message-Id: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Windows (v1.22) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:34:54 +0800 > From: Adam Tate > Subject: Adjustable electronic ignition > To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Reply-to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Just a quick question, > My Holden Commodore runs a Buick 3.8 litre > V6 and uses a crankshaft sensor for the ignition timing. What I want to do > is vary the timing, preferably from inside the car. One way to change it, > although being non-variable, would be to offset the sensor slightly to > obtain a fixed advance or retard in the timing. What I would prefer however, > is to intercept the signal before the ECM, and somehow modify it > electronically to make it appear that it is advanced slightly. > > Can I do this with a simple capacitance type delay, or would I need to use a > specialised circuit? Also, any ideas what the delay would have to be - > milliseconds, nanoseconds ? Ideally I would like to have some sort of dash > mounted box with an adjustable dial or something along those lines. > > All input is most appreciated. > > Adam Tate. > [at@multiline.com.au] > http://www.multiline.com.au/~atate/index.html > Adam, While "playing" with the ignition timing by introducing delays into the crank encoder signal will work, a better place to introduce the delay is in the electronic spark timing (EST) command line which is generated by the ECM and received by the the Direct Ignition (DIS) module. The desired ignition time in represented by the shift in crank angle between the pulse waveform on the EST command line and that on the "reference" line which the DIS creates from the crank encoder and sends to the ECM. The problem that results from simply intrtoducing delay into the EST signal results from the fact that the mapping between delay (time) and firing angle (crank degrees) is a function of engine speed -- and what you really need is to "delay" by a constant percentage of reference-waveform PERIOD, not a constant TIME INTERVAL Delaying by a constant number of cycles of the oscillator of a phase-locked loop that tracks a multiple of the reference waveform frequency is one way to attack this in hardware. John From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 18:56:45 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA18953; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:48:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id NAA18948; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:48:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 13:48:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199601101848.NAA18948@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se Subject: Adjustable electronic ignition Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Just a quick question, > My Holden Commodore runs a Buick 3.8 li= tre >V6 and uses a crankshaft sensor for the ignition timing. What I want to= do >is vary the timing, preferably from inside the car. One way to change i= t, >although being non-variable, would be to offset the sensor slightly to >obtain a fixed advance or retard in the timing. What I would prefer how= ever, >is to intercept the signal before the ECM, and somehow modify it >electronically to make it appear that it is advanced slightly. = > >Can I do this with a simple capacitance type delay, or would I need to = use a >specialised circuit? Also, any ideas what the delay would have to be - >milliseconds, nanoseconds ? Ideally I would like to have some sort of d= ash >mounted box with an adjustable dial or something along those lines. > >All input is most appreciated. > >Adam Tate. >[at@multiline.com.au] >http://www.multiline.com.au/~atate/index.html > Hi! I am not an expert on this specific car but i have had the same ideas with my home made c-mos ignition system to rep= lace the mecanical advance system and have given it some thought. It`s not very easy. The problem is that you can=B4t control the rpm-depe= ndent advance system in your system (i guess) and if you add a fixed timing de= lay between the pickup and controlunit it will result in a progressiv advanc= e in degrees. A delay of say 0.5ms vill result at 1000rpm in a advace of 60/2*1000=3Dtime between ign pulses/cyl=3D30ms 365/30=3D 12.17deg/ms*0.5 =3D 6.08deg. At 6000 rpm that will be 6*6.08=3D= 36.5 deg. = That is maby what you want if the rest of the system was fixed but inst= ead you will add that advance also to this. So you see you will probably need a = rpm dependend time-delay. It will require 1 or 2 op-amps (for leveldetektion= and shaping) 1 from the dashboard controlled timer and rpm dependent VCO, controlling the timer. I have done such a combination in a home made fue= l ignition once, aiming for cheap circuits. I used 1 NE555 and 1 74LS121 w= ith success. The first thing will of course be to check the output of the pickup to d= etermin input and output level of the system. A hint: tryout the system for temp-dependancy! All this would be an alternative to a mecanical adjustment of the pickup= =2E But that will requier servomotors (or equal)to make a dashboard adjustable t= iming. Tommy Palm [tommy.palm@oron.ds.sll.se] From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 22:40:14 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA19531; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:33:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from iquest1.iquest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA19526; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:33:43 -0500 Received: from walnut.holli.com by iquest1.iquest.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #11) id m0ta95K-000BAgC; Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:33 EST Received: from rus-ts1-08.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0ta930-0009mrC; Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:31 EST Message-Id: Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 17:31 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >According to the info I have (for a VN 1988 commodore with 3.8 V6 and GM >P3 computer), there are 2 hall effect devices near the harmonic balancer >that read pulses from 2 seperate rings. The outer ring has 18 pulses of >equal spacing and the inner ring has 3 un-equal length slots & the >computer counts how many of the 18 pulses occur in the length of the >un-equal pulses to determine where the engine is. (It doesn't need to >know if the cylinder's TDC is for the compression or for the exhaust stroke >as it uses a wasted spark system). Information on this system, as well as other GM service information that would answer many diy efi questions is available from Mascotech Marketing, 800-393-4831. You want the book on distributorless ignition systems, 16020.05-2. $8.00. I can tell as much as the book says. The DIS module syncs itself with the crank by observing the 18x signal while the 3x signal is low. 3x has three unequal length slots. It then knows which cylinder pair to fire. 18x is divided by 6 to produce a 3x symmetrical signal to send to the PCM along with 18x. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@eng.delcoelect.com jwharris@holli.com Of course, all responses are my own and should not be mistaken for those of Delco Electronics or General Motors. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 10 23:24:01 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA19621; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 23:18:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA19616; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 18:18:35 -0500 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma006143; Thu Jan 11 04:05:02 1996 Received: from cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au(144.135.109.134) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma016326; Thu Jan 11 10:14:27 1996 Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU (shiva.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.20.34]) by cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA26718 for ; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:14:26 +1100 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id KAA14472 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:14:24 +1100 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199601102314.KAA14472@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 10:14:23 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "J.W. Harris" at Jan 10, 96 05:31:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 346 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Information on this system, as well as other GM service information that > would answer many diy efi questions is available from Mascotech Marketing, > 800-393-4831. You want the book on distributorless ignition systems, > 16020.05-2. $8.00. Any other good books on P3/C4 operation? (algorithms etc?) Do they take visa/mc? Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 11 03:26:20 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA20211; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 03:16:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA20206; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:16:12 -0500 From: MTaylorfi@aol.com Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA06977 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:16:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:16:07 -0500 Message-ID: <960110221555_38024800@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Design a bracket for the pick-up unit so that it can be advanced (turned counter-clockwise relative to the front of the crank shaft) from the original position. See ya, Mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 11 05:03:18 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA20418; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 04:55:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from qsi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA20413; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 23:55:46 -0500 Received: from qsirmt08.qsi.com by qsi.com (4.1/3.2.012693-Quality Systems Incorporated); id AA19819 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 10 Jan 96 23:56:34 EST Received: by qsirmt08.qsi.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BADFB7.1BA02800@qsirmt08.qsi.com>; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 23:55:24 -0600 Message-Id: <01BADFB7.1BA02800@qsirmt08.qsi.com> From: Jim Pearl To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: RE: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 23:55:22 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Check for a compressor bypass valve and see if it's operating correctly = or in bad shape. When you drop off boost suddenly it will blow off the = excess boost, when you get back on it this valve must seal up for boost = to be produced. If it doesn't or if it didn't pop correctly then boost = might be slow or not coming at all. I'm not positive that your car had = one of these stock but I would expect so with it being a Cosworth... ---------- >From: Clint Sharp[SMTP:clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, January 07, 1996 11:38 AM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom A friend has just acquired a 1989 Ford Sierra Sapphire Cosworth and is experiencing some problems with the turbo. If the car is=20 driven on boost then all is fine until it comes off boost. When he accelerates again the turbo doesn't produce any boost (at least=20 it doesn't feel like it, no spine snapping acceleration) and acts like a fast 2l car. Any suggestions? (I've been elected to fix it as he thinks it's an electrical fault) The ECU has been modified and he hasn't got the original chip. Does anyone have a copy of=20 the standard chip they can mail me? Any suggestions as to the=20 cause of the problem would be gladly accepted. --=20 We apologise for the lack of coherent humorous comments. Normal service will be resumed shortly. clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 11 09:39:48 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id JAA20741; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 09:33:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA20736; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 04:33:41 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.143]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Thu, 11 Jan 96 20:33:35 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 20:33:35 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Just a quick question, > My Holden Commodore runs a Buick 3.8 litre >V6 and uses a crankshaft sensor for the ignition timing. What I want to do >is vary the timing, preferably from inside the car. One way to change it, >although being non-variable, would be to offset the sensor slightly to >obtain a fixed advance or retard in the timing. What I would prefer however, >is to intercept the signal before the ECM, and somehow modify it >electronically to make it appear that it is advanced slightly. > >Can I do this with a simple capacitance type delay, or would I need to use a >specialised circuit? Also, any ideas what the delay would have to be - >milliseconds, nanoseconds ? Ideally I would like to have some sort of dash >mounted box with an adjustable dial or something along those lines. > >All input is most appreciated. > >Adam Tate. >[at@multiline.com.au] >http://www.multiline.com.au/~atate/index.html > > Adam, you can use a Haltech IG4 programmable ignition timing computer to control the timing on your Commodore. It will give you even more load points than the factory! plus data logging, etc. I guess it's not exactly a DIY solution but I thought I would let you know it can be used in that way. regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 11 18:10:51 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA21989; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 17:59:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA21983; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:59:32 -0500 Received: from post.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.72]) by relay-4.mail.demon.net id ab24005; 11 Jan 96 17:46 GMT Received: from clintsmc.demon.co.uk ([158.152.122.156]) by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa03919; 11 Jan 96 17:44 GMT Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 17:34:17 GMT From: Clint Sharp Message-Id: <482@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom X-Mailer: FIMail V0.9d X-User: Alpha Test Version Of FI-Mail, DisWin 1.5C:\WINSOCK\WINDIS X-User: Approved: yes Lines: 17 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In your message dated Tuesday 9, January 1996 you wrote : > This is all very interesting. Are your Ford Electronic engine controls the > same > as FoMoCo of Usa EEC IV system? > > I would be interested in seeing data about your Ford ECU proms. > > > Kirk Davies > No, sorry, the EEC-IV ECU is a radically different beast although there are performance chips available for that unit in the UK at least. -- We apologise for the lack of coherent humorous comments. Normal service will be resumed shortly. clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 11 23:03:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA23223; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:58:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA23218; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 17:57:56 -0500 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma015504; Fri Jan 12 03:43:04 1996 Received: from cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au(144.135.109.134) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma020380; Fri Jan 12 09:52:58 1996 Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU (shiva.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.20.34]) by cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA11866 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:52:56 +1100 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id JAA29143 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:52:54 +1100 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199601112252.JAA29143@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:52:53 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Boxsell" at Jan 11, 96 08:33:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 879 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Just a quick question, > > My Holden Commodore runs a Buick 3.8 litre > >V6 and uses a crankshaft sensor for the ignition timing. What I want to do > > Adam, > you can use a Haltech IG4 programmable ignition timing computer to > control the timing on your Commodore. It will give you even more load points > than the factory! plus data logging, etc. I guess it's not exactly a DIY > solution but I thought I would let you know it can be used in that way. > regards, > Mark Boxsell > MRB Design Also, haltech now have an F5GM which plugs straight into a VN/VP loom (& probably any other GM car running a P3 computer, but you'd have to check). One would presume that as it replaces the whole ECU it would do ign timing. Cost is around $aus 1200 (~us 870) Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 02:36:33 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA23803; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 02:29:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix9.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA23798; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:29:32 -0500 Received: from by ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id SAA20399; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:29:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:29:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199601120229.SAA20399@ix9.ix.netcom.com> From: eric_e@ix.netcom.com (Eric Elliott ) Subject: MAP sensor calibration To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu These two pages contain calibration data for five models of intake manifold pressure sensors. The data was given to me, accuracy is not known. Sorry if the data is not formatted best for you. Not knowing the standard format, I used tabs for easy editing. Will format to suit and resend as directed! Eric Elliott ----------------cut here--------------------------------------- GMC EFI engine MAP sensors calibration data, page one Input model 460 model 835 model 834 IN Hg output VDC output VDC output VDC 0 4.620 4.602 0.560 -1.0 4.442 4.424 0.741 -2.0 4.264 4.249 0.923 -3.0 4.086 4.075 1.105 -4.0 3.908 3.899 1.287 -5.0 3.73 3.724 1.469 -6.0 3.552 3.548 1.652 -7.0 3.374 3.370 1.834 -8.0 3.196 3.195 2.016 -9.0 3.018 3.019 2.199 -10.0 2.84 2.842 2.380 -11.0 2.662 2.667 2.562 -12.0 2.484 2.485 2.745 -13.0 2.306 2.303 2.928 -14.0 2.128 2.121 3.111 -15.0 1.95 1.940 3.293 -16.0 1.772 1.758 3.475 -17.0 1.594 1.577 3.657 -18.0 1.416 1.395 3.840 -19.0 1.238 1.219 4.022 -20.0 1.178 1.043 4.204 Connector green red gray output wire green green green sensor 0 to 28"Hg 0 to 28"Hg 0 to 28"Hg range direct acting direct acting reverse act. output volts 0.175V 0.178V 0.182V per inch Hg. input GMC EFI engine MAP sensors calibration data, page 2. Input model 833 Input model 886 ? output VDC IN H2O output VDC 0 4.629 0.0 2.347 0.1 4.612 0.5 2.435 0.2 4.593 1.0 2.522 0.3 4.575 1.5 2.610 0.4 4.557 2.0 2.698 0.5 4.539 2.5 2.786 0.6 4.521 3.0 2.874 0.7 4.502 3.5 2.961 0.8 4.484 4.0 3.049 0.9 4.466 4.5 3.136 1 4.448 5.0 3.224 1.1 4.429 5.5 3.312 6.0 3.395 sensitivity sensitivity 0.182V/inch Hg 0.175V/inch Hg Connector blue Connector yellow output wire gray output wire green wire stripe black trace wire stripe ?? sensor ??? sensor -25" to +9# range reverse act. range reverse act. Data was given in inches water for the 886. Unit of measure were not specified for the 833. Possibly the data represents about 0.18 volts output per inch mercury pressure input for both 886 & 833. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 03:42:48 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA23935; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 03:31:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hermes.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA23929; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:31:48 -0500 Received: from INTEL7.intel.com by hermes.intel.com (8.7.1/10.0i); Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:25:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:31:30 PST From: "Clinton L. Corbin" Message-Id: <9601120331.utk19712@INTEL7.intel.com> X-To: HERMES::"diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: RISC microcontrolers for efi To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Folks, Just wandering if anyone has looked at he newer PowerPC based microcontrollers from Motorola and IBM. How well would they work for a efi application? It appears that both companys are pushing (and supporting) these chips pretty hard. Anything that would make them very difficult (or very expensive) to use an efi application? How good are the supporting chips? Any comments? Clint ccorbin@intel7.intel.com Needless to say, my comments do not represent my employer in any way. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 06:49:06 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA24399; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 06:40:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cello.QNET.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA24394; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:40:23 -0500 Received: from dialup40.palm.ca.qnet.com by cello.QNET.COM with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0tad8m-0001QzC; Thu, 11 Jan 96 22:39 PST Message-Id: Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 22:39 PST X-Sender: masmith089@pop3.av.qnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: masmith Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 10:16 PM 1/10/96 -0500, you wrote: >Design a bracket for the pick-up unit so that it can be advanced (turned >counter-clockwise relative to the front of the crank shaft) from the original >position. > >See ya, > >Mike > now thats thinking - its rmp independent and everything. Matt Smith - rocket scientist. - seriously. Matt Smith masmith089@qnet.com Mailer Eudora 1.5.2 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 06:51:58 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA24412; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 06:47:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix4.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA24407; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:47:24 -0500 Received: from by ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id WAA01550; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:47:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:47:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199601120647.WAA01550@ix4.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: Re: RISC microcontrolers for efi To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > >Folks, > Just wandering if anyone has looked at he newer PowerPC based >microcontrollers from Motorola and IBM. How well would they work for a efi >application? It appears that both companys are pushing (and supporting) these >chips pretty hard. Anything that would make them very difficult (or very >expensive) to use an efi application? How good are the supporting chips? >Any comments? > >Clint >ccorbin@intel7.intel.com Needless to say, my comments do not represent > my employer in any way. > other than the high prices at the present time they should work great i bet in five years or so they will be the standard of the industry for many applications From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 16:08:56 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA26129; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:01:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pyromania.apana.org.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA26124; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:01:16 -0500 Received: (from pbarrie@localhost) by pyromania.apana.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id DAA22375; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 03:00:55 +1100 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 03:00:55 +1100 (EST) From: me To: diy_efi Subject: O2 Sensor type? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have aquired an O2 sensor from a manufacturer's test bench and cannot source any data on it . I would appreciate any-one pointing me in the right direction as to the type , manufacturer , or specs. on this unit . I wish to use it as an A/F meter so I need reliable information . The unit is a six wire device with csOoo JAPAN on the body and the numbers 1830 1183 on the hexagon . Thanking You , Philip Barrie From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 19:21:37 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA26738; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:14:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns2.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA26733; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:14:45 -0500 Received: by ns2.eds.com (hello) id OAA08816; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:14:44 -0500 Received: by nnsp.eds.com (hello) id OAA18395; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:14:13 -0500 Received: from ctlw3904 by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA10191; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:14:23 -0500 Received: from ctlp0140.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.71.49]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA265114044; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:14:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 14:07:22 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: RE: RISC microcontrolers for efi To: diy_efi X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have it from a reliable source that Motorola has already squeezed out Intel as the ucontroller supplier for their next (i.e. real soon now) line of PCM's, and that they do use the PowerPC core. This information is two years old. I'm slightly suprised you don't know that already, Clint (ccorbin@intel7.**intel.com**). What group do you work for? Ed Lansinger GM Powertrain Premium V (Northstar & Aurora) Software & Calibration Group From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 20:50:07 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA26989; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 20:31:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns2.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA26982; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:31:17 -0500 Received: by ns2.eds.com (hello) id PAA17566; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:31:07 -0500 Received: by nnsp.eds.com (hello) id PAA26803; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:30:33 -0500 Received: from ctlw3904 by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA13048; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:30:42 -0500 Received: from ctlp0140.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.71.49]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA273888622; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:30:22 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 15:25:20 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: RE: RISC microcontrolers for efi To: diy_efi X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Fri, 12 Jan 96 I wrote: >I have it from a reliable source that Motorola has already >squeezed out Intel as the ucontroller supplier for their next >(i.e. real soon now) line of PCM's, and that they do use >the PowerPC core. This information is two years old. I'm slightly >suprised you don't know that already, Clint (ccorbin@intel7.**intel.com**). >What group do you work for? > >Ed Lansinger >GM Powertrain Premium V (Northstar & Aurora) Software & Calibration Group > Sorry - overzealous editing on my part. I was referring to Ford's next PCM. Neither GM nor Chrysler has used Intel microcontrollers for their PCM's in a while, if ever. Ed Lansinger From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 21:13:51 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA27107; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 21:05:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from babbage.ece.uc.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA27102; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:05:53 -0500 Received: from uceng.uc.edu (aluistro@uceng.uc.edu [129.137.189.1]) by babbage.ece.uc.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00691 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:05:51 -0500 (EST) Received: (from aluistro@localhost) by uceng.uc.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA02973 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:05:40 -0500 From: Anthony Edward Luistro Message-Id: <199601122105.QAA02973@uceng.uc.edu> Subject: Need LOTS OF HELP making efi system To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 16:05:39 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199601112252.JAA29143@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> from "Craig Pugsley" at Jan 12, 96 09:52:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I am of dire need of help! I am merely a beginner on efi systems. However, I need to design a fuel injection system for a 4-cylinder Yamaha motorcycle engine to power a small formula car. Can anybody give me some advice on WHERE to begin on this project? Purchasing a aftermarket efi system is possible, but there are enough funds to do this (therefore, it is not really an option). Would it be cheaper to make one yourself? If so, where should I look to get more details and ideas. Can someone give me a general direction of how to make a simple 4 injector efi system (nothing too fancy)? All your help will be greatly appreciated! Anthony Luistro From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 12 23:22:31 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA27518; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:17:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.eds.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA27513; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:16:55 -0500 Received: by ns1.eds.com (hello) id SAA13545; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:16:51 -0500 Received: by nnsa.eds.com (hello) id SAA11041; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:16:21 -0500 Received: from ctlw3904 by fsrd37z0; (5.65/1.1.8.2/23Sep94-0943AM) id AA01555; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:16:33 -0500 Received: from ctlp0140.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com ([130.172.71.49]) by ctlw3904.mpg.gmpt.gmeds.com (1.37.109.11) id AA003258570; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:16:10 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 17:20:05 EST From: Ed Lansinger Subject: RE: Need LOTS OF HELP making efi system To: diy_efi X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Anthony Luistro wrote: >I am of dire need of help! > >I am merely a beginner on efi systems. However, I need to design a fuel >injection system for a 4-cylinder Yamaha motorcycle engine to power a >small formula car. Formula SAE, right? Along with many other sources of info you can find through this list, have you read my articles in Circuit Cellar INK on doing just that? >Purchasing a aftermarket efi system is possible, but there are enough funds >to do this (therefore, it is not really an option). Would it be cheaper to >make one yourself? NO! (Well, OK, probably not.) But it isn't infinitely more expensive, especially if you have help. If this is Formula SAE, your _production_ cost *will* be lower for the purpose of the Cost Analysis. >Can anybody give me some advice on WHERE to begin on this project? I can, but we probably needn't clutter the list with it. email me at lansie@rpi.edu. I'd like to know how much time and money you have, how many people and their capabilities, and your performance goals. Ed Lansinger Rensselaer Formula SAE '92-'94 Rensselaer Formula Lightning '95- GM Powertrain Premium V (Northstar/Aurora) Software & Calibration Group From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 13 03:30:09 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA27859; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 03:16:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from anvil.gatech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA27854; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:16:54 -0500 Received: from acmey.gatech.edu (gt9803a@acmey.gatech.edu [130.207.165.23]) by anvil.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA24419 for ; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:16:53 -0500 From: gt9803a@prism.gatech.edu (Ennis Bragg) Received: (gt9803a@localhost) by acmey.gatech.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA22154 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:16:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199601130316.WAA22154@acmey.gatech.edu> Subject: Re: Need LOTS OF HELP making efi system To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:16:52 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Ed Lansinger" at Jan 12, 96 05:20:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1476 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Ed writes: > Anthony Luistro wrote: > >I am of dire need of help! > I can, but we probably needn't clutter the list with it. email > me at lansie@rpi.edu. I'd like to know how much time and money you > have, how many people and their capabilities, and your performance > goals. Ed, I don't think it would be cluttering the list. I think we need to see some discussions like that. Anthony, I am in the middle of doing the same thing here at Georgia Tech. I took a class on the HC11 last quarter and have spent a solid 4 months or so on the project. (not counting the previous 3 years of learning about our Honda 600cc motor and Accel DFI system.) If you haven't gotten started at this point, I wouldn't expect to have anything for the 96 competition. I don't mean to sound discouraging, but the project you are about to begin will take you much much longer than you could ever imagine. I think a good place for you to start would be Ed's articles from Circuit Cellar and another set or articles written by Tim Drury (Ga Tech) for Performance Engineering magazine a couple of years ago. You can find Tim's articles at his home page at: http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe/ddis.html Tim designed an ignition system only but the design process he talks about in his article applies to designing a fuel injection system. Good Luck! Ennis -- Ennis Bragg Team Leader Georgia Tech Motorsports gt9803a@prism.gatech.edu http://www.cc.gatech.edu/people/home/gt9803a/ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 13 03:58:40 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA28147; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 03:45:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix8.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA28142; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 22:45:50 -0500 Received: from ix-cha-nc3-24.ix.netcom.com by ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id TAA27536; Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:45:41 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:45:41 -0800 Message-Id: <199601130345.TAA27536@ix8.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: dewhisna@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Donald Whisnant Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Instead of having to use charts to calibrate a MAP sensor -- charts that have been derived from some "standard, ideal condition MAP sensor" -- why not create your own chart for your own MAP sensor? That way it will be guaranteed to be accurate with your sensor ... [I derive this from the pressure transducers that we use at work to measure water level in a vat of paper stock -- inches of water level is much much more sensitive than inches of Hg!] ... Procedure: Create a manometer from a couple of clear pieces of acrylic tubing. And 2 clear acrylic 90's for the tubing... For example, to measure to 30" of Hg, one side needs to be about 17" and the other side needs to be about 34". Diameter of the tube doesn't matter except for cost (remember you must fill the tube with Hg!) ... Long Side- : : : : : -Short side : : :__: Make you a ruler scale to go behind the long side (or just buy a yard stick)... If you make your own scale, make the scale be 1/2"=1 measured inch, this will simplify your measurements -- in other words, for each inch displaced downward, you are displacing an inch on the other side upwards. So, 1 inch movement on one side is equivalent to 2 inches of pressure. Next, get a handheld vacuum pump (available at most hobby stores or mail orderable from places like Edmund Scientific). Get several feet of tygon tubing -- with proper diameters and adaptors to fit over the end of the MAP sensor, the end of the vacuum pump, and the end of the acrylic tubing. This tubing is available from most hardware stores. Then get enough mercury from your favorite chemistry/hobby supply store to fill the tube (the amount will depend on the diameter you choose -- but a 3/4" tube usually requires almost 1 quart of fluid) --- BE CAREFUL NOT TO SPILL THE MERCURY AS IT PRODUCES VERY TOXIC FUMES! Fill the manometer so that it is about an inch or so below the top of the SHORT SIDE. Set the inch scale behind the longer side so that the ZERO is at the top of the fluid on that side (with the numbers increasing going up -- indicating inches of vacuum) On the LONG SIDE of the manometer, make a Tee fitting of the three units (i.e. manometer, handheld vacuum pump, and MAP sensor)... BUT, leave the short side OPEN -- stoping up or blocking air flow into/out-of the short side will make your reading inaccruate.. MAP SENSOR----T----: : : Hand Vacuum__: : pump : : : : :__: ^___ scale is behind the long side With a 5 volt power supply (could be just a simple 9V battery and a 7805 regulator), apply power to the MAP sensor and connect a volt meter to the sensor's output. Write down the voltage returned by the sensor for 0 inches of vacuum. Then, pump the hand unit until 1" is indicated (don't forget that 1" of movement on 1 side really is 2 inches of vacuum). Record the reading from the sensor... And repeat in desired increments until the desired amount of vacuum is reached (or you run out of manometer)... Note: If the vacuum leaks down when you stop pumping, either your tygon tubing has a leak, you have a bad stop valve on your pump (or it isn't shut totally), or you have a bad MAP sensor. Also Note: Make sure that the manometer is level... When finished, pour your Hg back into its container (making sure not to spill it) and save it for next time. This technique works on almost any type of pressure transducer -- i.e. MAP sensors, BARO sensors, altimeters, etc. etc... To measure inches of water instead of inches of Hg, just use distilled water instead of Hg.... In fact, you can measure inches of Hg with water, but you will need a very long manometer (or you will have to make a special inclined manometer) to read it. -- I don't remember the conversion factor right off, but it seems like there is about 27.+ inches of water per 1 inch of Hg! You may also prefer to use glass tubing instead of acrylic tubing -- especially if you are good at glass bending... You can also buy ready made manometers from Dwyer and other instrumentation/calibration suppliers -- in fact, they may even sell Hg or an Hg substitute (i.e. some liquid with the same density as Hg)... To measure pressures instead of vacuums, just move everything from the long side to the short side and replace the vacuum pump with a squeeze bulb (like those used on blood pressure instruments -- available from most any medical supply house)... Donald Whisnant dewhisna@ix.netcom.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 13 06:15:21 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA28497; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 05:59:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from opus.mtu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA28492; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:59:42 -0500 Received: from mtu.edu (mtu.edu [141.219.70.1]) by opus.mtu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id AAA17565 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:59:41 -0500 Received: from bounce.civil.mtu.edu (root@bounce.civil.mtu.edu [141.219.20.235]) by mtu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id AAA08827 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:59:41 -0500 From: Timothy Coste Received: from gradlab11.me.mtu.edu (tlcoste@gradlab11.me.mtu.edu [141.219.26.90]) by bounce.civil.mtu.edu (8.6.10/MTU-R1.8) with ESMTP id AAA28897 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:58:21 -0500 Received: (from tlcoste@localhost) by gradlab11.me.mtu.edu (8.6.12/MTU-C1.3) id AAA03375 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:59:37 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:59:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199601130559.AAA03375@gradlab11.me.mtu.edu> To: diy_efi Subject: Honda LAF sensor... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi all, Before I get to my comment/question, I thought I'd give a little background of myself, as this is the first time I've posted to the list. I'm current;y finishing up my Ph.D. research at Michigan Tehnological University (in the farthest north of the UP of MI). My research is on fuel injection systems...specifically, I've been developing and using a fiber-optic based sensor in the intake of a Ford 1.9l engine to measure port wall wetting and trying to correlate the film readings with engine out emissions, in cylinder pressure data, and the effects of changing fuel preparation (through injector design and phasing). (Long winded sentence...can you tell I'm working on my Ph.D.? :) ) As a mech. eng., some of the electrical playing discussed here is out of my league as far as practical applications, but the topics have been very interesting so far and hopefully I can learn more. Is there any good resources around for learning how to modify software in factory ECU's? On to the reason for this post. In the Dec. '95 Automotive Engineering (SAE monthly mag) there was an article on the Honda VTEC-E Civic. In it, it said that the man. x-mission cars would have a linear air fuel (LAF) sensor to handle the 22:1 ratio that the engine can operate at. It didn't say if it was also linear on the important end (rich), but if so, it should bode well for the price of LAF sensors to come down rapidly. I can't imagine Honda putting an $800-1000 LAF sensor in a Civic. Does anyone know anymore about these? I've seen a lot of articles on Hondas lean burn engines, but I don't remember any technical references to their A/F sensors. Hopefully the end result will be a $100 LAF you can pick up at a parts store! Thanks for listening, and I hope I can learn a lot and contribute at least a little to the list. Tim Coste tlcoste@mtu.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 13 11:38:29 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA28908; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 11:35:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA28903; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 06:35:45 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.121]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Sat, 13 Jan 96 22:35:41 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 22:35:41 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: Honda LAF sensor... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Hi all, > > Before I get to my comment/question, I thought I'd give a little >background of myself, as this is the first time I've posted to the >list. I'm current;y finishing up my Ph.D. research at Michigan >Tehnological University (in the farthest north of the UP of MI). >My research is on fuel injection systems...specifically, I've >been developing and using a fiber-optic based sensor in the intake >of a Ford 1.9l engine to measure port wall wetting and trying to >correlate the film readings with engine out emissions, in cylinder >pressure data, and the effects of changing fuel preparation (through >injector design and phasing). (Long winded sentence...can you tell >I'm working on my Ph.D.? :) ) As a mech. eng., some of the >electrical playing discussed here is out of my league as far as >practical applications, but the topics have been very interesting >so far and hopefully I can learn more. Is there any good resources >around for learning how to modify software in factory ECU's? > > On to the reason for this post. In the Dec. '95 Automotive >Engineering (SAE monthly mag) there was an article on the Honda >VTEC-E Civic. In it, it said that the man. x-mission cars would >have a linear air fuel (LAF) sensor to handle the 22:1 ratio that >the engine can operate at. It didn't say if it was also linear >on the important end (rich), but if so, it should bode well for >the price of LAF sensors to come down rapidly. I can't imagine >Honda putting an $800-1000 LAF sensor in a Civic. Does anyone >know anymore about these? I've seen a lot of articles on Hondas >lean burn engines, but I don't remember any technical references >to their A/F sensors. Hopefully the end result will be a $100 >LAF you can pick up at a parts store! > > Thanks for listening, and I hope I can learn a lot and contribute >at least a little to the list. > > Tim Coste > tlcoste@mtu.edu > Tim, See my answer to Philip Barrie. I hope you are right! In my experience they are refered to as "wide range" sensors rather than "linear" sensors. regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 13 11:38:29 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA28901; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 11:35:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA28896; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 06:35:35 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.121]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Sat, 13 Jan 96 22:35:30 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 22:35:30 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >I have aquired an O2 sensor from a manufacturer's test >bench and cannot source any data on it . I would appreciate >any-one pointing me in the right direction as to the type , >manufacturer , or specs. on this unit . I wish to use it as >an A/F meter so I need reliable information . The unit is >a six wire device with csOoo JAPAN on the body and the >numbers 1830 1183 on the hexagon . > >Thanking You , > >Philip Barrie > Philip, You lucky guy your have "scored" a wide range NTK UEGO sensor (it's worth about $950 Australian dollars (approx $700 US)). The only problem is you need the controller to run it. The device can read from 10 - 20 AFR and a similar unit (NTK say it is not the same but I have my doubts, I priced it as a spare part about 3 years ago it was $250 US) is used on the VTEC-E Honda Civic. The controller is about $350 Aust ($220 US) and is a small box designed for firewall mounting about the size of a cigarette packet and gives a nice 0 - 5 volt output. There is also an intelligent controller (ie. microcomputer controlled) but it is mega dollars. We all wonder how the factory guys map there cars so well don't we, well they do it with this device !!! It's sort of the holy grail in EFI at least it was 9 years ago when I first discovered it. If you have a close look at some Formula 1 engine photo's from the "Turbo era" have a look at the Honda exhaust pipes. How times change, now it's on a production car. "CS" is a joint venture between NGK and NTK in Japan. Who is NTK you ask ? NTK is the ceramic (industrial) division of NGK spark plugs. As I understand it Horiba have taken over the marketing in the USA (there are some cross patents or something?) so if you give them a call they should be able to help. You could give NTK USA a try too as the situation may have changed. Bosch have a similar product called the LSM11 (4 wire but still wide range). hope this helps, Mark Boxsell MRB Design Sydney Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 13 16:09:07 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA29336; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 16:06:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uswat.advtech.uswest.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA29331; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 11:06:46 -0500 Received: from egate.mnet.uswest.com ([151.116.23.138]) by uswat.advtech.uswest.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24185 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:06:45 -0700 (MST) Received: from centhub (centhub.mnet.uswest.com [151.116.23.137]) by egate.mnet.uswest.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA16159 for ; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:14:32 -0700 (MST) Received: by centhub.mnet.uswest.com (M-Net Hub.951228) Received: from sp5-316.nts.uswest.com by cp.uswest.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA11500; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:04:49 -0700 Received: by sp5-316.nts.uswest.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA07605; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:04:51 -0700 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 09:04:51 -0700 From: scicior@cp.uswc.uswest.com (Steve Ciciora) Message-Id: <9601131604.AA07605@sp5-316.nts.uswest.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Need LOTS OF HELP making efi system X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Cellar and another set or articles written by Tim Drury (Ga Tech) for > Performance Engineering magazine a couple of years ago. You can find Tim's > articles at his home page at: > > http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe/ddis.html > > Tim designed an ignition system only but the design process he talks about > in his article applies to designing a fuel injection system. > > Good Luck! > Unfortunantly, just like in the series, part 2 dosn't seem to exhist. I've gotten really excited about this series, but have not seen the input/output conditioning circuitry, nor any software. This is what is really of interest to me. Is Tim on the list? will the software ever be available? All in all, it's a good start; more than I have done! (My 6811 ignition controller failed to work when I hooked it up to the coils :-( -Steven Ciciora From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 14 05:51:00 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA01319; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 05:45:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix6.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA01314; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 00:45:32 -0500 Received: from by ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id VAA09226; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:45:29 -0800 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:45:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199601140545.VAA09226@ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: eric_e@ix.netcom.com (Eric Elliott ) Subject: MAP sensor calibration To: diy_efi >From: Donald Whisnant >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 19:45:41 -0800 >Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Instead of having to use charts to calibrate a MAP sensor -- charts that >have been derived from some "standard, ideal condition MAP sensor" -- why >not create your own chart for your own MAP sensor? That way it will be >guaranteed to be accurate with your sensor ... [I derive this from the >pressure transducers that we use at work to measure water level in a vat >of paper stock -- inches of water level is much more sensitive than >inches of Hg!] ... I think that comparison of data taken from “standard, ideal condition MAP sensor”s purchased in a Georgia salvage yard, will show the sensors are quite linear and consistent, even after traveling all the way to the salva ge yard. Also, the ECU doesn’t get data from calibration of individual sensors, it just lives with the sensors as installed. >Procedure: Create a manometer from a couple of clear pieces of acrylic tubing. >And 2 clear acrylic 90's for the tubing... >For example, to measure to 30" of Hg, one side needs to be about 17" and >the other side needs to be about 34". Diameter of the tube doesn't matter >except for cost (remember you must fill the tube with Hg!) ... Use water NOT Hg, for 13.54:1 better resolution, same accuracy and zero toxicity. A Hiese digital manometer was used to calibrate the five sensors. Can you visually resolve 0.001 inch Hg? The Heise digital pressure gage u sed to calibrate the sensors may have been much more accurate than the technician that used it. As I wrote with the sensor data, the units of measure are suspect. Eric Elliott From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 14 05:51:01 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA01307; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 05:42:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix6.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA01302; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 00:42:11 -0500 Received: from by ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id VAA08783; Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:42:09 -0800 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 21:42:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199601140542.VAA08783@ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: eric_e@ix.netcom.com (Eric Elliott ) Subject: EFI system purchase To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone want to sell a port EFI system for a 350 CI SBC? Eric Elliott AR, USA 800.827.5038 501.251.3659 eric_e@ix.netcom.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 14 07:16:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA01590; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 07:12:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from sh1.ro.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA01585; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 02:12:14 -0500 Received: from ts2p3.ro.com (ts2p3.ro.com [205.216.92.53]) by sh1.ro.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA12588 for ; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 01:19:53 -0600 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 01:19:53 -0600 Message-Id: <199601140719.BAA12588@sh1.ro.com> X-Sender: toy4x4@ro.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: toy4x4@ro.com (Jack Alford) Subject: Re: EFI system purchase Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Does anyone want to sell a port EFI system for a 350 CI SBC? Junkyards do ... I bought a TBI there for $50 ... - jack alford ==> toy4x4@ro.com --> Decatur, AL From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 14 07:27:28 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA01648; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 07:24:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from relay3.UU.NET by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA01643; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 02:24:00 -0500 Received: from rome.ntr.net by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzylh05477; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 02:23:58 -0500 (EST) Received: by rome.ntr.net (940816.SGI.8.6.9/) id CAA16233; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 02:25:55 -0500 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 1996 02:25:54 -0500 (EST) From: Corey Stup To: diy_efi Subject: MAP sensors In-Reply-To: <199601140545.VAA09226@ix6.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I'll be making a run to the local import junk yard this week. Does anyone have any suggestions to which MAP sensors I should look for? This will be for use in my EFI/Ignition project for my 4 cylinder VW and Fiat. Models (car) and descriptions would be helpful, since we all know how things are quite screwy at the 'yard.... Thanks in advance! -- Corey Stup -- Louisville, KY From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 14 08:01:42 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA01722; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 07:55:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cello.QNET.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA01717; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 02:54:55 -0500 Received: from dialup06.palm.ca.qnet.com by cello.QNET.COM with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #1) id m0tbNG0-0001ucC; Sat, 13 Jan 96 23:53 PST Message-Id: Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 23:53 PST X-Sender: masmith089@pop3.av.qnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: masmith Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 07:45 PM 1/12/96 -0800, you wrote: >Instead of having to use charts to calibrate a MAP sensor -- charts that >have been derived from some "standard, ideal condition MAP sensor" -- why >not create your own chart for your own MAP sensor? >... >... Then get enough mercury from your favorite chemistry/hobby supply store > ... >1 quart of fluid) --- BE CAREFUL NOT TO SPILL THE MERCURY AS IT PRODUCES >VERY TOXIC FUMES! > ... >Donald Whisnant >dewhisna@ix.netcom.com > mercury vapor - the actual evaporated mercury, not an oxide or anything - is toxic as hell and the consequences are longterm..... any dense liquid could be used instead - the relevant factor of conversion is density relative to water. - the tubes will have to be longer.... for example motor oil - thick syrup - (anybody else got any ideas?) even if you have to build something 10 feet high with a step ladder, its still safer than slow poisoning. (alternatively - build it DOWN into a swimming pool for example. you might find it hard to buy a quart of mercury without half a dozen EPA forms, at least in the US anyway.. Matt Smith masmith089@qnet.com Mailer Eudora 1.5.2 From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 02:29:22 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA03460; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 02:17:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from iquest1.iquest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA03455; Sun, 14 Jan 1996 21:17:42 -0500 Received: from walnut.holli.com by iquest1.iquest.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #11) id m0tbeUQ-000BEvC; Sun, 14 Jan 96 21:17 EST Received: from rus-ts2-21.holli.com by walnut.holli.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #15) id m0tbeS5-0009iwC; Sun, 14 Jan 96 21:15 EST Message-Id: Date: Sun, 14 Jan 96 21:15 EST X-Sender: jwharris@holli.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: jwharris@holli.com (J.W. Harris) Subject: Re: Adjustable electronic ignition X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Any other good books on P3/C4 operation? (algorithms etc?) >Do they take visa/mc? yes, not much, yes ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- J.W. Harris Delco Electronics Corp. Project Engineer One Corporate Center Powertrain Electronics M.S. CT40C Kokomo, IN 46904-9005 jwharris@eng.delcoelect.com jwharris@holli.com Of course, all responses are my own and should not be mistaken for those of Delco Electronics or General Motors. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 14:06:11 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA04347; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:51:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ibmPCUG.CO.UK by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA04342; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:51:14 -0500 Received: from kate.ibmpcug.co.uk by alice.ibmPCUG.CO.UK id aa03492; 15 Jan 96 13:50 GMT Received: from turbo by kate.ibmpcug.co.uk id aa14303; 15 Jan 96 13:50 GMT Received: by win-uk.net!turbo; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:48:05 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.60 Message-ID: <105@turbo.win-uk.net> To: diy_efi, diy_efi Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:48:05 Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? From: "Brian Warburton, c/o Turbo Systems Ltd" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >>The unit is >>a six wire device with csOoo JAPAN on the body and the >>numbers 1830 1183 on the hexagon . >> >>Thanking You , >> >>Philip Barrie >> > >Philip, >I priced it >as a spare part about 3 years ago it was $250 US) is used on the VTEC-E >Honda Civic. > Mark Boxsell > MRB Design > Sydney Australia Hi Folks, I tried my local Honda Dealer on this one, but unfortunately here in England we don't have a Civic VTEC-E model so he couldn't help without knowing the Chassis and Engine Number of the car in question. Tricky as there isn't a Honda car involved, I'd like to play with one for other applications. There's no chance anyone has a U.S. or Oz. Honda part number for this sensor is there, Honda UK should be able to trace it from either of those numbers ? Thanks in anticipation for your help .... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brian Warburton, "Still searching for the perfect curve....." email: bwarb@turbo.win-uk.net Advanced Automotive Electronics Ltd, Van-Nuys House, Scotlands Drive, Farnham Common, England. SL2-3ES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 14:06:19 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA04353; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 13:51:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ibmPCUG.CO.UK by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA04348; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 08:51:23 -0500 Received: from kate.ibmpcug.co.uk by alice.ibmPCUG.CO.UK id ab03493; 15 Jan 96 13:50 GMT Received: from turbo by kate.ibmpcug.co.uk id aa14301; 15 Jan 96 13:50 GMT Received: by win-uk.net!turbo; Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:48:05 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.60 Message-ID: <105@turbo.win-uk.net> To: diy_efi, diy_efi Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:48:05 Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? From: "Brian Warburton, c/o Turbo Systems Ltd" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >>The unit is >>a six wire device with csOoo JAPAN on the body and the >>numbers 1830 1183 on the hexagon . >> >>Thanking You , >> >>Philip Barrie >> > >Philip, >I priced it >as a spare part about 3 years ago it was $250 US) is used on the VTEC-E >Honda Civic. > Mark Boxsell > MRB Design > Sydney Australia Hi Folks, I tried my local Honda Dealer on this one, but unfortunately here in England we don't have a Civic VTEC-E model so he couldn't help without knowing the Chassis and Engine Number of the car in question. Tricky as there isn't a Honda car involved, I'd like to play with one for other applications. There's no chance anyone has a U.S. or Oz. Honda part number for this sensor is there, Honda UK should be able to trace it from either of those numbers ? Thanks in anticipation for your help .... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brian Warburton, "Still searching for the perfect curve....." email: bwarb@turbo.win-uk.net Advanced Automotive Electronics Ltd, Van-Nuys House, Scotlands Drive, Farnham Common, England. SL2-3ES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 15:20:05 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA04909; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:14:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA04904; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:14:13 -0500 From: MTaylorfi@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA02665 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:14:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:14:12 -0500 Message-ID: <960115101410_116991408@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: EFI system purchase Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey there, There is one here for sale in Denver, CO. in the want ads. The number is 303-427-1984. The system is complete (i.e. TPI, computer and wiring harness). He's asking $1000 for it. See ya, Mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 15:22:05 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA05022; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:18:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hp9000a1.uam.mx by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA05017; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:18:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199601151518.KAA05017@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hp9000a1.uam.mx (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA073049192; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 09:19:52 -0600 From: Alcantara Mendez Oscar Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 15 Jan 96 9:19:52 CST In-Reply-To: <199601140545.VAA09226@ix6.ix.netcom.com>; from "Donald" at ix.netcom.com>, netcom.com> m.com> Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85.2.1] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have the response chart for a chrysler map sensors used in turbo and non turbo models. If anybody wants to have a free copy send me an e-mail to almo@hp9000a1.uam.mx Oscar Alcantara From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 16:16:16 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA05275; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:09:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linet01.li.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA05270; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:09:18 -0500 Received: from lisuser26.li.net (lisuser26.li.net [199.173.74.126]) by linet01.li.net (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA05244 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:31:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:31:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199601151531.KAA05244@linet01.li.net> X-Sender: jgn@li.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: jgn@li.net (John G. Napoli) Subject: Re: Need LOTS OF HELP making efi system Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >I am of dire need of help! > >I am merely a beginner on efi systems. However, I need to design a fuel >injection system for a 4-cylinder Yamaha motorcycle engine to power a >small formula car. > >Can anybody give me some advice on WHERE to begin on this project? >Purchasing a aftermarket efi system is possible, but there are enough funds >to do this (therefore, it is not really an option). Would it be cheaper to >make one yourself? If so, where should I look to get more details and >ideas. Can someone give me a general direction of how to make a simple >4 injector efi system (nothing too fancy)? All your help will be greatly >appreciated! > > >Anthony Luistro > Earlier in 1995, the magazine CIRCUIT CELLAR INK ran articles in three consecutive months on exactly this topic. Sounds like you might be assigned to a similar project. The articles were excellent, and I believe that the author might visit this list. Napoli From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 16:18:33 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA05371; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:16:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from zaphod.develcon.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA05364; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 11:16:28 -0500 Received: from wayneb.develcon.com (wayneb.develcon.com [198.169.2.58]) by zaphod.develcon.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02409 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:15:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199601151615.KAA02409@zaphod.develcon.com> X-Sender: wayneb@zaphod.develcon.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 10:22:06 -0600 To: diy_efi From: Wayne Braun Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 09:19 AM 1/15/96 CST, you wrote: >I have the response chart for a chrysler map sensors >used in turbo and non turbo models. >If anybody wants to have a free copy send me >an e-mail to >almo@hp9000a1.uam.mx >Oscar Alcantara > Certainly would like a copy. Any information like this is helpfull, even if it is not for the exact unit I am using. It will help me get into the ballpark with some of the other things I am doing. Thanks Wayne Braun Wayne Braun Product Support Develcon Electronics Email: Wayne.Braun@Develcon.com HTTP://WWW.Develcon.com Phone: (306) 933-3300 or 1-800-667-9333 FAX: (306)978-8860 From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 15 20:28:58 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA06073; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 20:21:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from camins.camosun.bc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA06068; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 15:21:24 -0500 Received: from camins.Camosun.BC.CA by camins.Camosun.BC.CA (PMDF V5.0-4 #3258) id <01I01F370Y1I002OGI@camins.Camosun.BC.CA>; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 12:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 12:21:09 -0700 (PDT) From: mecheng9312@camins.Camosun.BC.CA Subject: EFI Ratings In-reply-to: <199601140542.VAA08783@ix6.ix.netcom.com> To: diy_efi Cc: diy_efi Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi everyone! Does anyone have information on power requirements/ratings for Bosch & GM injectors. I need the information for a fuel injection testor unit that I am designing for a college project. Also, information on pulse rates for different conditions would be handy. Thanks, Jason White. (mecheng9312@camins.camosun.bc.ca) From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 00:22:04 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA07118; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 00:02:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from guardian.aesprodata.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA07112; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:02:32 -0500 From: dzorde@aesprodata.com.au Received: by guardian.aesprodata.com.au with UUCP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA25862; Tue, 16 Jan 96 08:02:47 +0800 Received: from cc:Mail by afcperth.aesprodata.com.au id AA821808617 Tue, 16 Jan 96 08:10:17 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 08:10:17 Message-Id: <9600168218.AA821808617@afcperth.aesprodata.com.au> To: diy_efi Subject: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu For anyone out there! I am currently connecting a new efi system and I was wondering whether to include a fuse in the common 12V supply to all the injectors, just to avoid the injector drivers in the efi unit stuffing up if one of the injectors short out and draw major current through the efi unit. Any thoughts? Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 00:32:48 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA07176; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 00:26:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix10.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA07171; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 19:26:51 -0500 Received: from ix-cha-nc1-09.ix.netcom.com by ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id QAA17287; Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:26:48 -0800 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 16:26:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199601160026.QAA17287@ix10.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: dewhisna@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Donald Whisnant Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >From: masmith >Date: Sat, 13 Jan 96 23:53 PST >Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration > >At 07:45 PM 1/12/96 -0800, you wrote: >>Instead of having to use charts to calibrate a MAP sensor -- charts that >>have been derived from some "standard, ideal condition MAP sensor" -- why >>not create your own chart for your own MAP sensor? >>... >>... Then get enough mercury from your favorite chemistry/hobby supply store >> ... >>1 quart of fluid) --- BE CAREFUL NOT TO SPILL THE MERCURY AS IT PRODUCES >>VERY TOXIC FUMES! >> >... >>Donald Whisnant >>dewhisna@ix.netcom.com >> >mercury vapor - the actual evaporated mercury, not an oxide or anything - >is toxic as hell and >the consequences are longterm..... > >any dense liquid could be used instead - the relevant factor of conversion >is density relative >to water. - the tubes will have to be longer.... >for example >motor oil - thick syrup - (anybody else got any ideas?) >even if you have to build something 10 feet high with a step ladder, its >still safer than slow poisoning. >(alternatively - build it DOWN into a swimming pool for example. >you might find it hard to buy a quart of mercury without half a dozen EPA >forms, at least in the US anyway.. > > >Matt Smith >masmith089@qnet.com >Mailer Eudora 1.5.2 > True... I guess I should have also put another disclaimer to the procedure that I posted: WARNING: HG FUMES ARE LETHAL. USE ONLY IN A WELL VENTILATED EXHAUSTED WORK AREA. ... so now the warnings are posted so if anyone tries this and gets Hg poisoning, don't say I didn't warn you... :) ... And yes it is possible to buy a quart of mercury without the environment monkeys (EPA) screwing with you :) ... ... But as you say, it is still safer and easier to use an Hg substitute and make a scale conversion. .... Try checking with Dwyer Instruments to see what substitute they recommend, I'm sure they know of one, or probably even sell one as well... .. Perhaps a glycerin compound? Donald Whisnant dewhisna@ix.netcom.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 09:46:19 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id JAA08171; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:37:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA08166; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 04:37:29 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.147]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Tue, 16 Jan 96 20:37:23 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 20:37:23 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >>> >> >>Philip, >>I priced it >>as a spare part about 3 years ago it was $250 US) is used on the VTEC-E >>Honda Civic. >> Mark Boxsell >> MRB Design >> Sydney Australia > >Hi Folks, > >I tried my local Honda Dealer on this one, but unfortunately here in >England we don't have a Civic VTEC-E model so he couldn't help >without knowing the Chassis and Engine Number of the car in >question. Tricky as there isn't a Honda car involved, I'd like to >play with one for other applications. There's no chance anyone has >a U.S. or Oz. Honda part number for this sensor is there, Honda UK >should be able to trace it from either of those numbers ? > > Thanks in anticipation for your help .... > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Brian Warburton, "Still searching for the perfect curve....." >email: bwarb@turbo.win-uk.net > Advanced Automotive Electronics Ltd, > Van-Nuys House, Scotlands Drive, > Farnham Common, England. SL2-3ES >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > Brian, Try NGK in England they should be able to help, ask for information on the UEGO sensor (pronounced U-A-GO). Remember I only suspected the Honda sensor was similar (NGK say it is not the same but we have all stories like that before). I have never been able to confirm this. Also controller for Honda sensor appears to be in the ECU. regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design Sydney Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 09:46:20 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id JAA08178; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 09:37:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA08173; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 04:37:53 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.147]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Tue, 16 Jan 96 20:37:50 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 20:37:50 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > For anyone out there! > > I am currently connecting a new efi system and I was wondering whether > to include a fuse in the common 12V supply to all the injectors, just > to avoid the injector drivers in the efi unit stuffing up if one of > the injectors short out and draw major current through the efi unit. > Any thoughts? > > > Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au > > Dan, Yes a good idea. Size of fuse will depend on whether you are using 16 ohm or 3 ohm injectors. Better than blowing a track off the pcb ! regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design Sydney Australia From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 12:16:36 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA08406; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 12:03:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gate.icl.fi by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA08401; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 07:02:55 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by gate.icl.fi (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA25505 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:01:15 +0200 Received: from ressu.icl.fi(141.192.16.9) by gate.icl.fi via smap (V1.3) id sma025499; Tue Jan 16 14:00:56 1996 Received: from plus.to.icl.fi by icl.fi (4.1/JJ010694) id AA27150; Tue, 16 Jan 96 14:05:44 +0200 Received: from kwi_nt.icl.fi ([141.192.38.80]) by plus.to.icl.fi (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA20137; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:01:19 +0200 Received: by kwi_nt.icl.fi with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE41B.34D78760@kwi_nt.icl.fi>; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:02:00 +-200 Message-Id: <01BAE41B.34D78760@kwi_nt.icl.fi> From: Krister Wikstrom To: "'DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: EFI articles Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 14:01:54 +-200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello all, Does anyone know on which issues of Circuit Cellar INK the articles on EFI were (95?)? Also (I know little about engine physics), could someone give any advice on how much the mixture can be made lean without destroying the engine. I'm talking about a project on Toyota 4x4 I'm starting. I think, that it could give better mileage, if the mixture is made leaner from normal during "steady" run? -KWi- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 13:56:52 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA08725; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:47:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from genesis.nred.ma.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA08720; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 08:47:48 -0500 Received: from mvarc.UUCP by genesis.nred.ma.us (8.6.9/genesis0.0) id IAA26696; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 08:21:37 -0500 Received: from an by mvarc.n-andover.ma.us with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #5) id m0tcA35-0002jKC; Tue, 16 Jan 96 06:59 EST Message-Id: Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 06:59 EST From: adh@an.bradford.ma.us To: diy_efi Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Donald Whisnant >From: masmith [] >any dense liquid could be used instead - the relevant factor of conversion >is density relative >to water. - the tubes will have to be longer.... >for example >motor oil - thick syrup - (anybody else got any ideas?) >even if you have to build something 10 feet high with a step ladder, its >still safer than slow poisoning. >(alternatively - build it DOWN into a swimming pool for example. >you might find it hard to buy a quart of mercury without half a dozen EPA >forms, at least in the US anyway.. [] But as you say, it is still safer and easier to use an Hg substitute and make a scale conversion. .... Try checking with Dwyer Instruments to see what substitute they recommend, I'm sure they know of one, or probably even sell one as well... .. Perhaps a glycerin compound? replacing the mercury is definitely a Good Thing [tm]. when i was a chem student, i had a professor that sprinkled sulfur powder on a fluorescent light that broke on the floor, because of the health hazard the tiny amount of mercury presented [sulfur easily reacts with mercury, and the resultant compound is a solid]. but so far all the alternatives suggested have confused density with viscosity. mercury is extremely dense - in the ballpark with lead - and has a -low- viscosity, whereas the substitutes mentioned are all close to water in density. off the top of my head, all the fluids i can think of are also close in density to water... :^< _______________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay LIFE, n: A phenomenon that resists the second law of thermodynamics adh@an.bradford.ma.us ---Schroedinger From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 17:09:28 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA09797; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 17:00:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.hud.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA09792; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 12:00:14 -0500 Received: from ariel.hud.ac.uk by mail.hud.ac.uk with Internet SMTP (PP) id <16329-0@mail.hud.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 16:32:39 +0000 Received: by ariel.hud.ac.uk with Microsoft Mail id <30FBD32B@ariel.hud.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Jan 96 16:32:43 gmt From: Paul Shackleton To: diy-EFI Subject: H.E.G.O. Sources Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 16:30:00 gmt Message-ID: <30FBD32B@ariel.hud.ac.uk> Encoding: 16 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I realise this might be a "how long is a piece of string" question but....... In UK scrap yards, which is the best HEGO sensor to go for? (ie what make and model of car?) Best means cheapest and/or most abundant. I presume I will be able to connect it up to a standard digital volt meter to read it and will have to provide a 12V supply to heat it up? Any help will prevent endless explanations at the scrap yard. An idea of the sort of price I should be paying would also be appreciated. Paul University of Huddersfield From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 16 18:24:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA09980; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 18:13:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix12.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA09975; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 13:13:02 -0500 Received: from by ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id KAA17704; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:12:59 -0800 Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 10:12:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199601161812.KAA17704@ix12.ix.netcom.com> From: jzalesny@ix.netcom.com (JimZ -92' AWD Tsi ) Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > >I have the response chart for a chrysler map sensors >used in turbo and non turbo models. >If anybody wants to have a free copy send me >an e-mail to >almo@hp9000a1.uam.mx >Oscar Alcantara Please send me a copy. Many Many ThanX JimZ jzalesny@ix.netcom.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 00:53:26 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA11774; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:45:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA11769; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 19:45:00 -0500 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id LAA20228 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:44:57 +1100 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199601170044.LAA20228@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:44:56 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Boxsell" at Jan 16, 96 08:37:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1398 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Try NGK in England they should be able to help, ask for information > on the UEGO sensor (pronounced U-A-GO). Remember I only suspected the Honda > sensor was similar (NGK say it is not the same but we have all stories like > that before). I have never been able to confirm this. Also controller for > Honda sensor appears to be in the ECU. > regards, > Mark Boxsell FWIW, I have recently bought an NGK UEGO and have the prices sitting in front of me. Sensor AUD$950, loom $120 and controller $750 ex tax. They're not cheap! I ran some calibration runs last week against an ADS9000 four gas analyser. There is some problem with the UEGO in that the voltage output wrt AFR has a 1.7V discrepency at stoiciometric and about 1.0V at the extremes of my tests (12:1 and 25:1). I'll be faxing NGK later today to find out why the output is out of spec. Robert Dingli -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 02:50:55 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA12021; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:45:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from guardian.aesprodata.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA12013; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 21:44:03 -0500 From: dzorde@aesprodata.com.au Received: by guardian.aesprodata.com.au with UUCP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA04456; Wed, 17 Jan 96 10:44:24 +0800 Received: from cc:Mail by afcperth.aesprodata.com.au id AA821904779 Wed, 17 Jan 96 10:52:59 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 10:52:59 Message-Id: <9600178219.AA821904779@afcperth.aesprodata.com.au> To: diy_efi Subject: injectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Can standard injectors be used for NOS, or do you need special injectors with harder springs to keep them closed to compensate for higher pressures with gas ? Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 05:17:51 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA12565; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 05:05:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.telstra.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA12560; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:05:15 -0500 Received: from mail_gw.fwall.telecom.com.au(192.148.147.10) by mail via smap (V1.3) id sma019452; Wed Jan 17 09:49:07 1996 Received: from cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au(144.135.109.134) by mail_gw.telecom.com.au via smap (V1.3) id sma027444; Wed Jan 17 16:02:17 1996 Received: from shiva.trl.OZ.AU (shiva.trl.OZ.AU [137.147.20.34]) by cdn_mail.dn.itg.telecom.com.au (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id QAA25741 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:02:15 +1100 Received: (from pugsley@localhost) by shiva.trl.OZ.AU (8.6.10/8.6.12) id QAA11430 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:02:14 +1100 From: Craig Pugsley Message-Id: <199601170502.QAA11430@shiva.trl.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: injectors To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:02:12 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: <9600178219.AA821904779@afcperth.aesprodata.com.au> from "dzorde@aesprodata.com.au" at Jan 17, 96 10:52:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 834 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Can standard injectors be used for NOS, or do you need special > injectors with harder springs to keep them closed to compensate for > higher pressures with gas ? > > Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au You can run standard injectors with 350 PSI of LPG pressure, (well, the gas is fed in from the bottom but the whole body is under presure). Injectors aren't intended to run this high pressure and it would be at just about the safety limit. I beleive you can pulse width modulate a standard N2O solenoid valve to get the flow adjustable so I suppose you could use stock injectors as the nozzles & a solenoid valve (& preferably another valve that is only on or off to stop any leakage.) Keep in mind that the flow rate will depend on the duty cycle AND the gas pressure (which varies a lot) Cheers, Craig. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 05:29:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA12604; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 05:18:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA12598; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 00:18:18 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id VAA02195 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Tue, 16 Jan 1996 21:56:04 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Tue, 16 Jan 96 22:05 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Tue, 16 Jan 96 22:01:57 EDT Message-Id: <9600170501.AA17361@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: MAP sensor calibration To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 22:01:54 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: ; from "adh@an.bradford.ma.us" at Jan 16, 96 6:59 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > but so far all the alternatives suggested have confused density with > viscosity. mercury is extremely dense - in the ballpark with lead - > and has a -low- viscosity, whereas the substitutes mentioned are all > close to water in density. For my 2 bits worth on the subject, there is no real substitute for mercury in a manometer. Motor oil is actually *lighter* than water. Mercury has a density of around 11, as I recall, while water is 1.0. Nothing else at that end of the periodic table is a liquid at room temperature. Even adding a heavy chemical such as zinc chloride to water until you get a saturated solution will only allow you to reach a practical density of about 2.0, and this stuff is nearly as nasty as mercury. Why don't you just go to your local gage supplier and get a gage calibrated in " Hg? They are not that expensive (depending on how accurate you need), and you'd have a hard time injuring yourself with one, unless you dropped it on your toe :-] Try a laboratory supply house, or an industrial gage supplier. May even be able to find something on the local surplus market. regards dn -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 @ + < __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 08:34:33 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA12939; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:24:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA12934; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 03:24:23 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.116]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Wed, 17 Jan 96 19:24:16 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 19:24:16 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >FWIW, I have recently bought an NGK UEGO and have the prices sitting in >front of me. Sensor AUD$950, loom $120 and controller $750 ex tax. They're >not cheap! > >I ran some calibration runs last week against an ADS9000 four gas analyser. >There is some problem with the UEGO in that the voltage output wrt AFR >has a 1.7V discrepency at stoiciometric and about 1.0V at the extremes >of my tests (12:1 and 25:1). I'll be faxing NGK later today to find out >why the output is out of spec. > >Robert Dingli >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au > >Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab >Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering > (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 > University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Robert, Are yes, but is your ADS9000 correct! Four gas analysers use a "chemical cell" O2 sensor and they have a life of only about 12-18 months. Oxygen is used along with the other gases(3) to calculate the AFR so if this sensor is not reading correctly your AFR will be all over the place. The other problem is that most "cal gas bottles" do not contain any oxygen so it is hard to check. With the "firewall mounted" controller NTK only claim +/- 0.5 AFR as far as I can remember. I would be very suspicious of it being 1.7 volts out at stoiciometric that does not sound correct to me. After all it only gives a 0-5 volt output so an error of 1.7 volts is pretty bad!!!! Make sure you have enough power for the heater circuit I have run into problems with cicarette lighter plugs ie. dirty contacts, etc. The early controllers could drive a meter movement directly however the later type which you have cannot, so make sure you are not "loading" the output. High impedence input or build yourself a voltage follower op-amp to give it some grunt! Also it is very sensitive you can watch each cylinder's gases coming down the exhaust pipe if you hang a scope off it! Also do you have the correct output table ie. volts to AFR. Also 25:1 is a bit on the lean side of things to be testing spans. Quoted scale shows 10:1 - 22:1 so 25:1 is really pushing it. 14.7:1 AFR = 3 volts. 10:1 AFR = 1.7 V 22:1 AFR = 2.65 V Hope this helps, Mark Boxsell MRB Design Sydney Australia Fax (02)629 4796 (International 61 2 629 4796) From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 08:55:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA12988; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:47:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gate1.ks.se by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA12983; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 03:47:27 -0500 From: Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se Received: by gate1.ks.se id AA14745 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:45:56 +0100 Received: from ming.ds.sll.se(159.38.50.119) by gate1.ks.se via smap (V1.3) id sma014742; Wed Jan 17 09:45:52 1996 Received: from by ming.ds.sll.se with SMTP (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA23522; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:53:56 +0100 X-Openmail-Hops: 1 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:53:44 +0100 Message-Id: Subject: MAP-dampening Mime-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="Meddelandetext" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi! I have a question concerning MAP-sensor signal shapening. I have done a = couple of home made FI systems during the last 10 years with success. My last p= roject has a standard absolute airpressure sensor from motorola (MXP200AP) that= is very quick. I have no experience in signal shaping of the jumpy idle pre= ssure of the engine. My earlier EFI's has had std air flow sensors so i have n= ot met this problem before. The only hint i have concerning dampening in MAP se= nsors is the old Bosch D-jettronic that has a flap valve with a small restrict= ion that opens big when pressure differens gets high to aviod slow responset= ime. My question is if i shold dampen the sensor pneumaticly or only electronica= lly = (excuse my bad english). The advantidge with mecanical is more safety ag= ainst destroying the sensor with pressure peak if backfire accurs. The sensor = have a maxpress of 10 bars (145 PSI) and a linear output between 0-2,5 ATM (practical). The engine is a 2.1 lit Volvo turbo with maxboost of 1.5bar (21 PSI) so= backfire can get rather nasty if they accour. I preffer mild cams so the= idle roughness is as on a standard engine. Power > 260hp. The processor (ST6) is rather slow and the A/D has no sample-hold. Conve= rting time is 70 microsek. I have not had any indications yet that it's too sl= ow. Does somebody have any hint on witch way too go concerning dampening w/o= too slow response from the MAP-sensor? Thankfull for any help! Tommy Palm tommy.palm@oron.ds.sll.se SWEDEN From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 18:27:43 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA15584; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:10:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from finite.nrl.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA15579; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:10:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199601171810.NAA15579@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by finite.nrl.navy.mil (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA29213; Wed, 17 Jan 96 13:10:20 -0500 From: Derrick Early Subject: EFI with SPIF? To: DIY_EFI (diy_efi) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 13:10:19 "EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Howdy all, Do any of the EFI vendors sell a system that does both sequential port fuel injection and knock control? This requires a cam sensor, right? Yours, -- Derrick Early early@finite.nrl.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 20:37:50 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA16385; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:30:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from big.fishnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA16380; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 15:30:07 -0500 Received: from port34.fishnet.net (port34.fishnet.net [205.216.133.234]) by big.fishnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA12182 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:30:13 GMT Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 12:30:13 GMT Message-Id: <199601171230.MAA12182@big.fishnet.net> X-Sender: fcmefi@mail.fishnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: fcmefi@fishnet.net (Fred Miranda) Subject: Re: MAP-dampening Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi! > >I have a question concerning MAP-sensor signal shapening. I have done a couple >of home made FI systems during the last 10 years with success. My last project >has a standard absolute airpressure sensor from motorola (MXP200AP) that is >very quick. I have no experience in signal shaping of the jumpy idle pressure >of the engine. My earlier EFI's has had std air flow sensors so i have not met >this problem before. The only hint i have concerning dampening in MAP sensors >is the old Bosch D-jettronic that has a flap valve with a small restriction >that opens big when pressure differens gets high to aviod slow responsetime. My >question is if i shold dampen the sensor pneumaticly or only electronically >(excuse my bad english). The advantidge with mecanical is more safety against >destroying the sensor with pressure peak if backfire accurs. The sensor have a >maxpress of 10 bars (145 PSI) and a linear output between 0-2,5 ATM >(practical). > if you have any old weber jets laying around, try experimenting with different jets and hose lengths (put the jet at the manifold) If you over dampen it you will need to compensate with more acceleration enrichments. on an undampened system it would be interesting to experiment with the timing of the samples if I ever get a system of my own going, I would like to try a sensor per intake runner and feed each on an individual basis. Probably a bit overboard, but would be interesting. Fred From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 20:37:57 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA16374; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:29:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id PAA16369; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 15:29:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 15:29:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199601172029.PAA16369@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >> For anyone out there! >> = >> I am currently connecting a new efi system and I was wondering wh= ether = >> to include a fuse in the common 12V supply to all the injectors, = just = >> to avoid the injector drivers in the efi unit stuffing up if one = of = >> the injectors short out and draw major current through the efi un= it. = >> Any thoughts? >> = >> = >> Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au >> = >> > >Dan, > Yes a good idea. Size of fuse will depend on whether you are usin= g 16 >ohm or 3 ohm injectors. Better than blowing a track off the pcb ! > regards, > Mark Boxsell > MRB Design > Sydney Australia > I agree! In the 2.5 ohm systems i have checked they don't take more than 1- 1.5amp/injector. Around 2 amp should bee a good choise since the most transistors used have a much higher max limit (this concerning 1 transis= tor per injector). regards, Tommy Palm tommy.palm@oron.ds.sll.se Sweden From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 22:33:39 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA17435; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:21:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA17430; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 17:21:49 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm1-22.magicnet.net [204.96.116.72]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA18387 for ; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 17:21:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199601172221.RAA18387@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 17:22:06 -0500 To: diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu If there was any real need for a fuse in the injector line, the manufacturers would have put one there on production cars. Anyone know if there is a car with one fitted? I don't, but then I don't know everything, I only think I do ;) Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 23:05:01 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA17556; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:50:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gater3.sematech.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA17551; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 17:49:36 -0500 Received: from GATEV4.SEMATECH.ORG by gater3.sematech.org (8.6.12/F-1.9) with ESMTP id QAA14910; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:49:32 -0600 Received: from MR.SEMATECH.Org by SEMATECH.Org (PMDF V5.0-5 #5463) id <01I04H008OKW8WW5SV@SEMATECH.Org> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:49:35 -0600 (CST) Received: with PMDF-MR; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:35:39 -0600 (CST) MR-Received: by mta GATEV3; Relayed; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:48:43 -0600 Alternate-recipient: prohibited Disclose-recipients: prohibited Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:26:00 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Knickerbocker 512-356-3000 X6759 Subject: possible cheap FI controller To: diy_efi Message-id: <01I04H1P3BJ28WW5SV@MR.SEMATECH.Org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Posting-date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 16:33:00 -0600 (CST) Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-MTS-identifier: [;93536171106991/1941325@VAXEN] A1-type: MAIL Hop-count: 3 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I have been persuing several possible controllers for a home brewed FI. The main criteria is cost, with availability a close second. My question is has anyone looked into using a Chrysler Electronic Fuel Control computer to drive a TBI or batch fire injector system? This is the Eighties version of lean burn. My 87 Diplomat has one and in addition to controlling the spark it also cycles a fuel enrichment solenoid in the carburator. The only conventional sensor not used by this system is a TPS. However I don't think it would be to hard to develop a board to condition the fuel enrichment signal based on a TPS input. These systems mount on the air cleaner and are in abundance in yards. Any thoughts? Steve M Knickerbocker From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 23:51:06 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA17707; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 23:38:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from lynx.cbr.dit.csiro.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA17702; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:38:17 -0500 Received: from polaris.cbr.dit.csiro.au by lynx.cbr.dit.csiro.au (8.6.12/1.06S) id KAA14851; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:38:01 +1100 From: gavin@cbr.dit.csiro.au (Gavin Walker) Received: by polaris.cbr.dit.csiro.au (8.6.12/1.07C) id KAA10984; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:37:59 +1100 Message-Id: <199601172337.KAA10984@polaris.cbr.dit.csiro.au> Subject: Hi To: DIY_EFI (DIY EFI) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:37:58 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 661 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello Everyone, I'm new to the list and I've been lurking around for a few days seeing what goes down here. I'm interested in cars and efi systems seem to be the current trend. Manufacturers put a lot of effort into EFI systems, as do a number of third part suppliers (Haltech, Motec, Injec, Wolf, etc). So I have to ask why do people build them from scratch? - they work better - they're cheaper or - are they just a heck of a lot of fun -- _--_|\ -|- Gavin Walker / \ | \_.--.*/ <- Canberra, gavin.walker@dit.csiro.au v Australia Phone +61-6-2167030 Fax +61-6-2167111 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 17 23:51:13 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA17717; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 23:44:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA17712; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:44:04 -0500 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id KAA19575 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:44:01 +1100 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199601172344.KAA19575@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:44:00 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Boxsell" at Jan 17, 96 07:24:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3959 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Mark and other diy-efiers > > > >I ran some calibration runs last week against an ADS9000 four gas analyser. > >There is some problem with the UEGO in that the voltage output wrt AFR > >has a 1.7V discrepency at stoiciometric and about 1.0V at the extremes > >of my tests (12:1 and 25:1). I'll be faxing NGK later today to find out > >why the output is out of spec. > > > Robert, > Are yes, but is your ADS9000 correct! Four gas analysers use a > "chemical cell" O2 sensor and they have a life of only about 12-18 months. > Oxygen is used along with the other gases(3) to calculate the AFR so if this > sensor is not reading correctly your AFR will be all over the place. The > other problem is that most "cal gas bottles" do not contain any oxygen so it > is hard to check. This was my first thought. I re-calibrated the ADS9000 and found that it was almost spot on. The ADS9000 is one of three that we have in the lab along with a full EPA emissions bench and various individual sensors. It has 2-3 separate chemical sensors for the various gases and all of these are showing the correct values at stoic. A switching type EGO also backs up these readings as do the torque readings. I am inclined to believe the ADS9000 is correct. > With the "firewall mounted" controller NTK only claim +/- 0.5 AFR as far as > I can remember. The NGK data in front of me claims : temperature dependency +- 0.03V dispersion of amplifier in TC-6000 +- 0.02V > I would be very suspicious of it being 1.7 volts out at stoiciometric that > does not sound correct to me. After all it only gives a 0-5 volt output so > an error of 1.7 volts is pretty bad!!!! Sorry, I meant 0.17V. It shows 2.830-2.832 V at lambda one. > Make sure you have enough power for the heater circuit I have run into > problems with cicarette lighter plugs ie. dirty contacts, etc. It is connected directly to the battery which gives a very steady 14.2 volts while running. > The early controllers could drive a meter movement directly however the > later type which you have cannot, so make sure you are not "loading" the > output. High impedence input or build yourself a voltage follower op-amp to > give it some grunt! I looked into this also. A moving coil voltmeter gives the same reading as the high impedance DVM. > Also it is very sensitive you can watch each cylinder's gases coming down > the exhaust pipe if you hang a scope off it! That's what I'm using it for. It's a lots more useful than waiting for a four gas analyser to settle. > Also do you have the correct output table ie. volts to AFR. Also 25:1 is a > bit on the lean side of things to be testing spans. Quoted scale shows 10:1 > - 22:1 so 25:1 is really pushing it. > 14.7:1 AFR = 3 volts. > 10:1 AFR = 1.7 V > 22:1 AFR = 2.65 V I think we may be talking about a different NGK controller here. Firstly, the one I am using cost AUD$750 ex tax rather than the $350 that you quoted. Secondly, the span for the controllers (of which there are three types) are 10:1 - 30:1 AFR for the normal unit (TC-6000), 14.5:1 - 52:1 AFR for the TC-6000C and 10:1 - 14.5:1 for the TC-6000D. All controllers use the same sensor. The TC-6000 which should give 3V at 14.57:1, 1.85 V at 10:1 and 3.45V at 22:1. Given that our engine can run smoothly over lambda 4 (but ideally up to lambda 2) 22:1 is a bit rich for a lean limit. > > Hope this helps, Thanks for your input. I'll let you know how it goes. Robert Dingli -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 00:00:32 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA17811; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 23:54:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA17806; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:54:30 -0500 From: MTaylorfi@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA21812 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:54:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 18:54:28 -0500 Message-ID: <960117185352_44978654@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: injectors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Only about 60 psi can be applied to an injector (roughly). NOS is about 1000 PSI, a considerable difference. See ya, Mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 00:06:11 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA17850; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 00:02:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA17845; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 19:02:46 -0500 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id LAA19986 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:02:36 +1100 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199601180002.LAA19986@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:02:36 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199601172221.RAA18387@magicnet.magicnet.net> from "Peter Wales" at Jan 17, 96 05:22:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1189 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Peter writes, > > If there was any real need for a fuse in the injector line, the > manufacturers would have put one there on production cars. > > Anyone know if there is a car with one fitted? I have a small collection of various looms at work. The later model ones (Toyota I believe) have a three fuse fuse-box with an 80-100 amp main fuse which I suppose goes to the alternator and general power rails, and a couple of 30-40 amp fuses. One of these may power the high current loads such as the injectors. Since they can be unbolted from the original loom and mounted directly onto the battery terminal clamps easily, I find them quite usefule for efi conversions Older cars had fusable links. Robert Dingli -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 03:22:32 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA18477; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 03:13:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from qsi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA18472; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:13:16 -0500 Received: from qsirmt09.qsi.com by qsi.com (4.1/3.2.012693-Quality Systems Incorporated); id AA01781 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 17 Jan 96 22:14:05 EST Received: by qsirmt09.qsi.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE528.E81EDFE0@qsirmt09.qsi.com>; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:12:36 -0600 Message-Id: <01BAE528.E81EDFE0@qsirmt09.qsi.com> From: Jim Pearl To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: EFI with SPIF? Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:12:34 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BAE528.E82FA8C0" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE528.E82FA8C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out the new DFI Sequential box, I'm pretty sure it does this. = There old boxes were some sort of batch fire but did do knock sensing - = I have one of these on my Mustang.. ---------- >From: Derrick Early[SMTP:early@finite.nrl.navy.mil] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 1996 7:10 AM To: diy_efi Subject: EFI with SPIF? Howdy all, Do any of the EFI vendors sell a system that does both sequential port = fuel injection and knock control? This requires a cam sensor, right? Yours, -- Derrick Early early@finite.nrl.navy.mil ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE528.E82FA8C0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiQEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABABMAAABSRTogRUZJIHdpdGggU1BJRj8AMgUBBYADAA4AAADMBwEAEQAWAAwAIgADACwBASCA AwAOAAAAzAcBABEAFgALADEAAwA6AQEJgAEAIQAAAEU0RkU3NjVGMTk1MUNGMTE5NUYxNDQ0NTUz NTQwMDAwAO4GAQOQBgAIBAAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5 AKDptTFb5boBHgBwAAEAAAATAAAAUkU6IEVGSSB3aXRoIFNQSUY/AAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABuuVb MbVfdv7lURkRz5XxREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAADAAAAEpWUEBR U0kuQ09NAAMABhDXIlPqAwAHEKQBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABDSEVDS09VVFRIRU5FV0RGSVNFUVVF TlRJQUxCT1gsSU1QUkVUVFlTVVJFSVRET0VTVEhJU1RIRVJFT0xEQk9YRVNXRVJFU09NRVNPUlRP RkJBVENIRklSRUJVVERJRERPS05PAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAmwIAAJcCAADNBAAATFpGdQmYktX/AAoB DwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM7cC5AcTAoM0 EswUxX0KgIsIzwnZOxefMjU1AoAHCoENsQtgbmcxMDMvFFALChViDAFjAEAgQ7JoBZBrIAhgBUB0 HJBEIG4H0URGSQZRcRcKUAIwBzEgBuB4LCAwSSdtIBNQEcB0eSwgcwhwHUBpBUBkb8cHkR0gBAAu IFQckB+xrQbwZB6CB5F3IOJzA3CXIfIAIBzQZh6AYXQRcCggZmkfsWIc8WRpwyFAIBAga25vHLER sFMAgRqgIC0e0CARgHY/IQEdYCKiHSERsCWhIG2ZH3BNdRPAGpEuLgqFQQqLbGkxODAC0WnwLTE0 NA3wDNApUwtZXDE2CqADYBPQYwVALV8rdwqHKisMMCr2RgNhOn8sfir2DIIdkASQBRAcsUUBCsBs eVtTTVRQdDplMMJAI0ADABPQLo5uMNAyICVweS5tAxB+XSwfLS0GYAIwLl8va1dDCYAdYHNkYXke wEpNAHB1CsAfcDE3HsAxwDk5NiA3OhrAFLDmTTMPLS1UbzVPL2sj0DR5Xw3AaTlfNB51Yu5qKzE7 fy9rRR2xA/AdIGEGAFBJRj8nfyiDMx42KfcUUQvyKvZIb3emZB9wB0BsLEL8RCQg3wBwH3Al9EID JYBuIBARoP8kkUZgRkAfgBOzHREi8CAErwbgQnERsB4HcCJyZgpQ7mwKhQuAP/JpJoEAcCFAjyRE BaACMANgbD8gILF9BAAgF6AeACNRBCBJYGM+YR8AJKIFsB7ABRBnaOp0Qu1ZCGFzRoYr9zA7/wqF MW8ydkL8Q29EfysFCoUFFsEAWcAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzCAjQYXW+W6AUAACDCAjQYX W+W6AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAA/hM= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE528.E82FA8C0-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 03:46:18 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA18549; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 03:39:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from qsi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA18544; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:39:13 -0500 Received: from qsirmt08.qsi.com by qsi.com (4.1/3.2.012693-Quality Systems Incorporated); id AA02424 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 17 Jan 96 22:39:56 EST Received: by qsirmt08.qsi.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE52C.84C5FEC0@qsirmt08.qsi.com>; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:38:27 -0600 Message-Id: <01BAE52C.84C5FEC0@qsirmt08.qsi.com> From: Jim Pearl To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Injectors and fuses Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:38:26 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BAE52C.84C5FEC0" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE52C.84C5FEC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've seen fusible links but never fuses. Perhaps fuses have a problem = with the load changing that links don't have? I'd think that an injector = would cause a pulsing load right? ---------- >From: Peter Wales[SMTP:pjwales@magicnet.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 1996 4:22 PM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses If there was any real need for a fuse in the injector line, the manufacturers would have put one there on production cars.=20 Anyone know if there is a car with one fitted?=20 I don't, but then I don't know everything, I only think I do ;) Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE52C.84C5FEC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhsEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABABgAAABSRTogSW5qZWN0b3JzIGFuZCBmdXNlcwA7CAEFgAMADgAAAMwHAQARABYAJgAaAAMA PgEBIIADAA4AAADMBwEAEQAWACUAGQADADwBAQmAAQAhAAAAODhENjc1MUExRjUxQ0YxMTk1RjE0 NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA1wYBA5AGAIgEAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAA AABAADkAACygzl7lugEeAHAAAQAAABgAAABSRTogSW5qZWN0b3JzIGFuZCBmdXNlcwACAXEAAQAA ABYAAAABuuVezqAaddaJUR8Rz5XxREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAA DAAAAEpWUEBRU0kuQ09NAAMABhC/EAoZAwAHEDECAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJVkVTRUVORlVTSUJM RUxJTktTQlVUTkVWRVJGVVNFU1BFUkhBUFNGVVNFU0hBVkVBUFJPQkxFTVdJVEhUSEVMT0FEQ0hB TkdJTkdUSEFUTElOS1NET05USEFWRT9JRFRISU5LAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAFQMAABEDAACPBQAATFpG dTkXK1H/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKD M7cC5AcTAoM0EswUxX0KgIsIzwnZOxefMjU1AoAHCoENsQtgbmcxMDMvFFALChViDAFjAEAgSTAn dmUgEbAJ8CBmrnUAkAJgHLBsC4BrBCDkYnUFQG5lHKAFwB0hsQeQLiBQBJARgHAEIE0eoyARgByh YSATUG+JHWFtIAPwdGggIQDhHYFvYWQgEXEaoAuAWmchIWEFQB2kZAIgJ/sFQB/yPxxxIaAhAB2x IkSrA5ELgGoFkHQFsXcIYPpsIaFhHrEgMiWQAJAiIcMhcwUQZ2h0PwqFCosRHaAxODAC0WktMTw0 NA3wDNApYwtZMTbPCqADYBPQJSAgLSuHCofXKjsMMCsGRgNhOiyOKwZvDIIfARPQBcBXB0AHkFsA U01UUDpwanctMLJAAMAiAGMeQHQu/TIhXSwvLT0GYAIwLm8vewZXCYAeQHNkYXksFCBKAHB1CsB5 IDECNzdQMTk5NiA0ZDoyEeBQTTKvLT1Uhm807y97ZGl5Xw3AnGlABaAlkANwYi4J8MhnLm8kEG8t E8AicDJlPeBkdTj/M751YqclAjsfL3tSZUGASST1PwQgAHAhoB6jJ48okzM2zyoHFFEL8isGSWYh Iheg/SDQYUQiN9AXoAdAHjEJgP8dEAWxIEAeoiTRISMk5x2hnmU3UCExCoUDgXVmAND+dAhwBJAE ICV0H/MmUAVA/wIgHLBIBAIgIFI+8CUgPlDfA6Al0BGgHvBE3EFIsE4C+GtubwfgBpBH9QQAIDH/ T4Eg1E4CKTACQAmAI6BE3P5JIvQ3UB4CITEDoFSVUSR1HlJ5JAJnN1BUkAIgbMc30CQEVJIgOylE 3AqFfzBJWWYXoACQDbACMEEBcN8EkBFwBSAEIEOgYy4QFzGVWzBhCoVDEYBpcgOCqVuZTHQhoEJP EGsiEfURgG0KhSIHYSISUhFWiH4iWI9FD0YfRykKhRbBAAFl4AAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABA AAcwYONIql7lugFAAAgwYONIql7lugEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAN06 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE52C.84C5FEC0-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 03:54:27 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA18603; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 03:49:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA18597; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:48:33 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id UAA04987 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:36:18 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Wed, 17 Jan 96 20:40 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Wed, 17 Jan 96 20:43:09 EDT Message-Id: <9600180343.AA17391@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 20:43:06 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: <199601172029.PAA16369@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu>; from "Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se" at Jan 17, 96 3:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > In the 2.5 ohm systems i have checked they don't take more than 1- > 1.5amp/injector. Around 2 amp should bee a good choise since the most A little judicious application of Ohm's Law will reveal that at 12V, a 2.5 ohm load will draw almost 5 Amps!. Considering that the standard battery voltage is closer to 14V, the current draw becomes even larger. Mind, you, the inductance of the injector will self limit the current until the inductor "charges" up, the above calculation would be worst case if the injector was on 100% of the time. Most injector drivers are also current limited, but this only protects the injector, not the driver circuit. The 1-1.5 A figure you quote is most likely the average current, not the peak. Fuses would have to be rated to handle peak currents, with a safety factor of about 25% added on for good measure. I would use an 8-10 A, standard automotive fuse, this will protect the driver from catastrophic failure, but should never blow under normal conditions. I would think that most auto makers use some fuse in the circuit, whether it is replaceable (read visible) or not is another issue. May be just a fusible link in the wiring somewhere. regards dn -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 @ + < __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 04:54:37 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA18881; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 04:47:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA18876; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 23:47:01 -0500 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0tcmEL-000CuNC; Wed, 17 Jan 96 22:45 CST Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:45:45 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <01BAE52C.84C5FEC0@qsirmt08.qsi.com> from "Jim Pearl" at Jan 17, 96 10:38:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 616 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim Pearl writes: > > I've seen fusible links but never fuses. Perhaps fuses have a problem = > with the load changing that links don't have? I'd think that an injector = > would cause a pulsing load right? I don't have the wiring diagram's handy, but I'm fairly certain that my 91 GMC 2500 (TBI 350) had a fuse for the injectors in the fusebox. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.hotrod.com (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 05:45:05 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA18977; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 05:33:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cube.curtin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA18972; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 00:33:33 -0500 Received: from cc.curtin.edu.au by cc.curtin.edu.au (PMDF V5.0-3 #7809) id <01I05OHUVF44AYLD2K@cc.curtin.edu.au> for diy_efi@Coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:33:27 +0800 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:33:27 +0800 From: Rob Skala Subject: Opinions on idea ..... To: diy_efi Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi All, I've been on this list a while and have learned a great deal of information about EFI systems. Thanks for all the knowledge. Any way I have an idea that I want to bounce of you all. I want to build an EFI system for my project car. The car is a Mazda RX-7 with the 12A turbo rotary engine. The original EFI system has gone the great "tinkerer" in the sky, but I still have all the other components. The original system used a flap-type air metering device. Anyway this is my idea. I was going to have the air-flow meter calibrated using a flow-bench or something similar to obtain Vout as a function of airflow. Then using the air temp sensor I can convert this into mass flow. From there it should be simple to compute the amount of fuel required for any flow into the engine. Any drawback to this sort of approach, or is there a simpler way to do this. Any comments or criticisms will be appreciated.....I'm only new to this sort of thing !!!!! Thankyou all for your help. Regards, Rob Robert D Skala Materials Research Group Curtin University of Technology GPO Box U1987 Perth 6001 WESTERN AUSTRALIA Telephone: +61 9 351 2331 Fax: +61 9 351 2377 email: skala_rd@cc.curtin.edu.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 09:01:14 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA19343; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:49:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA19338; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 03:49:26 -0500 From: Lfaustini@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA07417 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 03:49:24 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 03:49:24 -0500 Message-ID: <960118020244_63730418@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Cosworth used a 6803???? Why?? The 8061 in every for car is far, far supirior to the 6803. If they intended to do any real-time interpolation, or run a multi-tasking executive, they chose the wrong chip. I'm not saying you cant write a multi-tasking executive on a small 8-bit micro (I have) but why wouldnt they use the already-known-good ford eec-iv ?? -----Lou Faustini From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 12:24:11 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA19685; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:16:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA19679; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 07:16:11 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.135]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Thu, 18 Jan 96 23:16:01 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 23:16:01 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Cosworth used a 6803???? > > > Why?? The 8061 in every for car is far, far supirior to the 6803. If >they intended to do any real-time interpolation, or run a multi-tasking >executive, they chose the wrong chip. I'm not saying you cant write a >multi-tasking executive on a small 8-bit micro (I have) but why wouldnt they >use the already-known-good ford eec-iv ?? > > -----Lou Faustini > > > Bloody hell Lou we are only trying to run the engine! We have no operating system, keyboard, graphics card, network(not usually), printer, hard disk, floppy disk, tape drive, SCSI card, modem, sound card, etc, etc. I can't believe you guy's argue about this stuff. Have you ever thought it might be CHEAPER. regards, Mark Boxsell. MRB Design From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 12:24:16 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA19691; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:16:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA19686; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 07:16:26 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.135]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Thu, 18 Jan 96 23:16:10 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 23:16:10 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Robert Dingli, > >I think we may be talking about a different NGK controller here. Firstly, >the one I am using cost AUD$750 ex tax rather than the $350 that you quoted. >Secondly, the span for the controllers (of which there are three types) are >10:1 - 30:1 AFR for the normal unit (TC-6000), 14.5:1 - 52:1 AFR for the >TC-6000C and 10:1 - 14.5:1 for the TC-6000D. All controllers use the same >sensor. They used to be that price !!!! > >The TC-6000 which should give 3V at 14.57:1, 1.85 V at 10:1 and 3.45V at 22:1. >Given that our engine can run smoothly over lambda 4 (but ideally up to lambda >2) 22:1 is a bit rich for a lean limit. I used the UEGO it on racing engines mainly. This engine of yours sounds interesting. Whats your BMEP and hows your NOX? regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design Fax (02)629 4796 (International 61 2 6294796) From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 12:25:38 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA19702; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:20:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from finite.nrl.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA19697; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 07:20:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181220.HAA19697@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by finite.nrl.navy.mil (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA00587; Thu, 18 Jan 96 07:20:00 -0500 From: Derrick Early Subject: RE: EFI with SPIF? To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 7:19:59 "EST In-Reply-To: <01BAE528.E81EDFE0@qsirmt09.qsi.com>; from "Jim Pearl" at Jan 17, 96 10:12 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Check out the new DFI Sequential box, I'm pretty sure it does this. = > There old boxes were some sort of batch fire but did do knock sensing - = > I have one of these on my Mustang.. Thank you for the reply Jim. I talked to the guys at Electromotive. They said that they can make their TEC-II do SPFI, but they asked why would you want to do that. They normally do a phased squirt of two injectors at a time for a 4 cyl engine. In other words the injectors are fired when its piston is at the top of its stroke. I asked if their knock control scheme retards all four cylinders, and they said yes. They haven't allowed for the control of the timing for each of the cylinders like Bosche does. He suggested that I shouldn't be tuning so close to knock anyways. Yours, -- Derrick Early early@finite.nrl.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 13:38:27 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA19940; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:26:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA19935; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:25:57 -0500 From: atsakiri@ford.com Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA26903 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:24:00 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181324.AA26903@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:24:00 -0500 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:24:00 -0500 To: diy_efi Cc: atsakiri@ford.com Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 17 Jan 96 17:22:06 EST." <199601172221.RAA18387@magicnet.magicnet.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 08:25:33 -0500 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > If there was any real need for a fuse in the injector line, the > manufacturers would have put one there on production cars. Bold assumption. :) Tony --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 14:19:13 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA20017; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:05:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from svcs1.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA20012; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:05:09 -0500 Received: from ns.digex.net (dcc11784.slip.digex.net [205.197.200.191]) by svcs1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA24566 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:05:04 -0500 Message-ID: <30FE537A.609D@access.digex.net> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:04:42 -0500 From: Bill Lewis X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b4 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI-Digest Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Remember one of Murphy's Laws is "A transistor protected by a fast acting fuse will protect the fuse by blowing first." If you expect the fuse to be of value, you'll have to design your output drivers carefully. In the case of bipolar, even if the maximum collector current isn't exceeded, maximum power dissipation could be. I've never seen a fuse blow in a car for any legitimate reason, only when I was fubling around with the battery connected. And a fuse adds a few more connections to go bad. Ever have any experiences with those crappy fuses the German auto makers loved. /Bill From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 15:22:37 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA20527; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:16:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA20522; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:16:02 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm5-01.magicnet.net [204.96.116.151]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA01740; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:15:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181515.KAA01740@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:16:15 -0500 To: diy_efi, diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:43 PM 1/17/96 MDT, diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: I would think that most auto >makers use some fuse in the circuit, whether it is replaceable >(read visible) or not is another issue. May be just a fusible >link in the wiring somewhere. Darrell, No auto manufacturer is going to bury a fusible link in the wiring anywhere which will totally disable the car and cannot be replaced! No fuses in the injector feeds. CPU maybe, but not injectors. Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 15:43:53 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA20730; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:35:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id KAA20725; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:34:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:34:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181534.KAA20725@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se Subject: Hi Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hello Everyone, > I'm new to the list and I've been lurking around for a few days >seeing what goes down here. I'm interested in cars and efi systems >seem to be the current trend. > > Manufacturers put a lot of effort into EFI systems, as do a number >of third part suppliers (Haltech, Motec, Injec, Wolf, etc). So I have >to ask why do people build them from scratch? > > - they work better = > - they're cheaper > or > - are they just a heck of a lot of fun > >-- = > _--_|\ -|- Gavin Walker > / \ | = > \_.--.*/ <- Canberra, gavin.walker@dit.csiro.au > v Australia Phone +61-6-2167030 Fax +61-6-2167111 > Hi yourself! For mee (that is new on this list but old in the game) its your 2 last p= oints that suits, fun and cost. I have a losts of turbo-friends that also don'= t want too pay for their extra power and just surfs on my know-how and near kos= tfree inventions. Since my hobby car is a -64 i can laborate with every factor= =2E Its a way to keep up my know-how in termodynamics, elektrionics and programmin= g too. Maby a little crazy, Tommy Palm tommy.palm@oron.ds.sll.se SWEDEN = From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 15:43:56 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA20760; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:36:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id KAA20755; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:36:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:36:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181536.KAA20755@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se Subject: Opinions on idea ..... Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >Hi All, > >I've been on this list a while and have learned a great deal of = >information about EFI systems. Thanks for all the knowledge. Any way I = = >have an idea that I want to bounce of you all. > >I want to build an EFI system for my project car. The car is a Mazda RX= =2D7 = >with the 12A turbo rotary engine. The original EFI system has gone the = = >great "tinkerer" in the sky, but I still have all the other components.= = >The original system used a flap-type air metering device. Anyway this i= s = >my idea. I was going to have the air-flow meter calibrated using a = >flow-bench or something similar to obtain Vout as a function of airflow= =2E = >Then using the air temp sensor I can convert this into mass flow. From = = >there it should be simple to compute the amount of fuel required for an= y = >flow into the engine. Any drawback to this sort of approach, or is ther= e = >a simpler way to do this. > >Any comments or criticisms will be appreciated.....I'm only new to this= = >sort of thing !!!!! > >Thankyou all for your help. > >Regards, > >Rob > > >Robert D Skala >Materials Research Group >Curtin University of Technology >GPO Box U1987 >Perth 6001 >WESTERN AUSTRALIA >Telephone: +61 9 351 2331 >Fax: +61 9 351 2377 >email: skala_rd@cc.curtin.edu.au > > >Hello! I'm also a small engine turbo-nutter and have so been for 14 years when = i soon foud out that all stock FI system did not have the fuel amount that i ne= eded. I needed aroud 100hp per cyl. I started to look for a flowmeter and calibrated 2 different flap-meters= =2E The biggest i found in Sweden was for Alfa 164 3,0. After some more years i = found that every flowmeter i looked at had a too big flow restriction and it d= oes not play well with turbos and response. Most standard turbos don' t like more than 0,07 bars underpress w/o leaking oil (=3Dlower maxpower= ). I did some very interesting resarch concerning a home made mass meter using th= e carman-vortex princip and used ultrasonic pickups and senders to detetec= t mass ( i skip the long tale here). After 2 more years i saw that everyone now= days took the speed/density way with a simple MAP-sensing and now i work with= that in my last home made EFI. The disadvantidge is extensive programming and= mapping everytime you build a new turbo engine (about every year for mee= ) otherwise its only advantages as i see. = So skip some years and trow away your flap-meter if you are interested t= o get some more power and respons out of your nice car, thats my advice (but i= have endless patiens and inventive glow!!)! Hope i did not hurt any feelings! Cheers, Tommy tommy.palm@oron.ds.sll.se From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 15:43:57 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA20749; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:36:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id KAA20744; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:36:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:36:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181536.KAA20744@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Item Subject: Meddelandetext > > >> In the 2.5 ohm systems i have checked they don't take more than 1- >> 1.5amp/injector. Around 2 amp should bee a good choise since the most > > >A little judicious application of Ohm's Law will reveal that at >12V, a 2.5 ohm load will draw almost 5 Amps!. With 2,5 ohm systems i meant that the injectors have a resistance of 2,5 ohm. they are then connected to a resistor, a transistor and diod ( and some more electronics for overvolt protection). The peak current is checked with a 100 MHz oscilloscope and i have testrunned it with 1 amps transistors for days and days in bench w/o any problems. The injector gets rather hot in testbenchdriving. My own system uses a high peak open current and then a lower hold current than standard systems and don't need more than 0,6 amp fusing (slow fuses, fast peak currents goes mutch higher on my home made system). Actually since the serieresistor on stock systems i have looked at had around 6-8 ohms so the max current when shortcurcuiting shold not blow either the transistor or board on low ohm MPI systems (14.4-06/6=2.3 amps per injector). Short curcuiting all injectors seemes unlikely. I don't have any comments concerning high ohm systems. Considering that >the standard battery voltage is closer to 14V, the current draw >becomes even larger. Mind, you, the inductance of the injector >will self limit the current until the inductor "charges" up, the >above calculation would be worst case if the injector was on 100% >of the time. Most injector drivers are also current limited, but >this only protects the injector, not the driver circuit. > >The 1-1.5 A figure you quote is most likely the average current, >not the peak. Fuses would have to be rated to handle peak >currents, with a safety factor of about 25% added on for good >measure. I would use an 8-10 A, standard automotive fuse, I meant 2 amp per injector minimum so a 8-10 ohm for the whole system (if you have >=4 inj) might give ocillating voltagedrops over the fuse and holders soo check that its not between batterysupply and controllcircuits. As i wrote before a low ohm system should not need fusing inside. Any low amp fusing (>15 amp) should always preferably bee done inside the curcuitry. Thats a good answer wy its not done on the factory made systems. this >will protect the driver from catastrophic failure, but should >never blow under normal conditions. I would think that most auto >makers use some fuse in the circuit, whether it is replaceable >(read visible) or not is another issue. May be just a fusible >link in the wiring somewhere. > >regards >dn > > > Tommy > >-- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca > Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell > Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 > Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 > @ + > < > __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 15:59:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA20925; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:50:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA20920; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:50:24 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm5-01.magicnet.net [204.96.116.151]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04603; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:50:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181550.KAA04603@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:50:21 -0500 To: diy_efi, diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 03:49 AM 1/18/96 -0500, diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: >Cosworth used a 6803???? > > > Why?? The 8061 in every for car is far, far supirior to the 6803. Lou, remember that Cosworth is an independant company, owned by Vickers I think. They went to Weber Marelli because they could make a system which worked and was available in small numbers. I would be surprised if there was anyone at Ford at that time who could design and program the EEC4 system. Don't forget this was done in England, not the US. The Weber Marelli system was new, and they wanted customers so they probably developed the system for peanuts. It went on the Aston Martin and the Maserati Bi Turbo and Lancia Integrale so it did work quite well. Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 15:59:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA21019; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:52:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA21014; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:51:55 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm5-01.magicnet.net [204.96.116.151]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04714; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:51:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181551.KAA04714@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:52:08 -0500 To: diy_efi, diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Cc: atsakiri@ford.com Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 08:25 AM 1/18/96 -0500, diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > >> If there was any real need for a fuse in the injector line, the >> manufacturers would have put one there on production cars. > >Bold assumption. :) I'm Boldly going again ;) Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 16:05:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA21229; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 16:01:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA21222; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:01:16 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm5-01.magicnet.net [204.96.116.151]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA05542; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:01:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181601.LAA05542@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:01:28 -0500 To: diy_efi, diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From >there it should be simple to compute the amount of fuel required for any >flow into the engine. Any drawback to this sort of approach, or is there >a simpler way to do this. Rob, This is a theoretical approach, and IMHO it won't work!!! There will be more variables to consider. Battery voltage, water temperature, humidity, etc etc. The problem is that although you may get within striking distance, you would be better off building something, generating the mapping system and then mapping it on a dyno, either chassis or engine. That way you actually generate the numbers the engine wants and not the theoretical ones which are only ballpark, and will need mapping in anyway. If you do not have access to a dyno, use an oxygen sensor, there is a thread running on them right now. Just drive around and tune it that way Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 17:21:21 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA21648; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:10:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA21643; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:10:42 -0500 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AC16519 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:08:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181708.AC16519@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:08:40 -0500 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:08:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:10:08 +0500 From: ehernan3@ford.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 589 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu "i soon foud out that all stock FI system did not have the fuel amount that i needed. I needed aroud 100hp per cyl" The Eagle Talon(and it's triplet brethren from Mitsubishi and Plymouth) which is sold in the US performs at 97.5-107.5 bhp/L(depending on which model year). They have been modified to produce in excess of 150 bhp/L on a surprisingly regular basis using the factory vortex-based flow meter. There is another internet digest devoted to these cars that is probably known to this group. If not, I'll write back with their address. Ed Hernandez ehernan3@ed8719.pto.ford.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 17:23:05 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA21670; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:17:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA21665; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:17:17 -0500 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA18002 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:14:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199601181714.AA18002@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:14:47 -0500 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:14:47 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:13:50 +0500 From: ehernan3@ford.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Need LOTS OF HELP making efi system X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 951 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Tim Coste wrote: "I can't imagine Honda putting an $800-1000 LAF sensor in a Civic." On the other hand, no one could imagine VTEC technology in a Civic, either. I've benchmarked the competition to some degree and continue to be impressed with the amount of money that Honda put into the engines which go into their most basic cars. I wish I had budgets like that! I think that $800 is excessive even for Honda, but if that's a 'retail' price, OEMs can get them at perhaps a third of the cost. Now it becomes remotely possible for Honda. Tack on the fact that they must improve their CAFE as a percentage of their existing capability, and you start to understand that it takes more money to find 5% improvement on a 35mpg vehicle than it does a 20mpg barge. Selling at a smaller margin is better than not selling at all, and Honda's reputation allows them the luxury of increasing the margin if needed. Ed Hernandez ehernan3@ed8719.pto.ford.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 18:03:08 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA21779; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:53:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uswat.advtech.uswest.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA21774; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:53:07 -0500 Received: from egate.mnet.uswest.com ([151.116.23.138]) by uswat.advtech.uswest.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA21916 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:53:02 -0700 (MST) Received: from centhub (centhub.mnet.uswest.com [151.116.23.137]) by egate.mnet.uswest.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA01548 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:00:50 -0700 (MST) Received: by centhub.mnet.uswest.com (M-Net Hub.951228) Received: from sp5-316.nts.uswest.com by cp.uswest.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA20837; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:51:03 -0700 Received: by sp5-316.nts.uswest.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA12421; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:51:02 -0700 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:51:02 -0700 From: scicior@cp.uswc.uswest.com (Steve Ciciora) Message-Id: <9601181751.AA12421@sp5-316.nts.uswest.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > At 08:25 AM 1/18/96 -0500, diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > > > >> If there was any real need for a fuse in the injector line, the > >> manufacturers would have put one there on production cars. > > > >Bold assumption. :) > > I'm Boldly going again ;) > > Peter Wales > President Superchips Inc Florida > Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham > "Timing is everything" > I.M.H.O. (In My Humble Opinion), manufacturers are trying to save every cent they can, and don't expect to have many people 'mess' with their wiring. If someone does mess with the wiring (like a service tech), and if they short something out, it's their fault, and not the manufacturer's, :-) But for _MY_ F.I. system, I know I will be messinging w/ the wiring a lot, and if I short something out, it's my fault and it will cost me. So, I will put in lots of fuses (cheap insurance), cary spares, and be careful not to short anything out. I don't think there is much of a need for manufacturers to fuse the injectors, but I _do_ think there is a need for me to fuse my injectors. If there is a need for you to do it, well, that's up to you. Have Fun! -Steven Ciciora From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 20:26:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA22864; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:10:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from qh001.infi.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA22859; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:10:21 -0500 Received: from Default by moe.infi.net with SMTP (Infinet-S-3.3) id PAA17749; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:01:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199601182001.PAA17749@moe.infi.net> X-Sender: orin@nr.infi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:55:51 -0500 To: diy_efi From: orin@nr.infi.net (Orin B. Harding) Subject: Injector Data Needed X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have information on the injectors that were used by GM on the 1.9L, 2.0L, and the 2.3L or 2.5L "Iron Duke" 4's in the mid to late '80's. This was a throttle body injection system..Thanks in advance for any info you have regarding #/hr, markings, etc.... Orin Harding - Greensboro, NC ('74 MGB-GT - '79 MGB Roadster) From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 20:26:45 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA22881; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:19:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gwa.ericsson.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA22876; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:19:23 -0500 Received: from mr2.exu.ericsson.se (mr2.exu.ericsson.com [138.85.147.12]) by gwa.ericsson.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA13104 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:19:22 -0600 (CST) Received: from exucom.exu.ericsson.se (root@exucom.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.1.10]) by mr2.exu.ericsson.se (8.7.1/NAHUB-MR1.1) with SMTP id OAA16910 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:19:21 -0600 (CST) Received: from b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (eusmsrt@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.20.125]) by exucom.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA04337 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:19:19 -0600 From: Markus Strobl Received: (eusmsrt@localhost) by b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA04467 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:19:16 -0600 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:19:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199601182019.OAA04467@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > At 08:25 AM 1/18/96 -0500, diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > > > >> If there was any real need for a fuse in the injector line, the > >> manufacturers would have put one there on production cars. > > > >Bold assumption. :) > > I'm Boldly going again ;) > > Peter Wales > President Superchips Inc Florida > Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham > "Timing is everything" > According to the service manual on my 96 Camaro, the PCM monitors the resistance of each fuel injector, and if the resistance drops too low, the driver is disabled, and a trouble code is set. Markus Strobl From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 21:06:12 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA23025; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:50:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA23020; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:50:23 -0500 From: tdrury@SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu Received: by SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/1.2) id AA0191; Thu, 18 Jan 96 15:44:56 -0500 Message-Id: <9601182044.AA0191@SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu> Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 15:43:10 EST To: wikstrom.krister@icl.fi, james@uclink.berkeley.edu, dchamber@gil.com.au, thcollin@mtu.edu, cmcalstr@hpcvts.cv.hp.com, weir@ash.crd.ge.com, damon.stewart@gccbbs.com, sciciora@aztec.al.bldrdoc.gov, DLF0779@tntech.edu, andrew@deakin.edu.au, winder@ipld01.hac.com, patman@express.ctron.com, fridman@cpsc.ucalgary.ca, lorraine@latcs1.lat.oz.au, DIY_EFI Cc: tim.drury@gtri.gatech.edu Subject: Digital Distributorless Ignition System Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The Programmable, Digital Distributorless Ignition System is finished! Thank God. Anyhow, all of you had expressed interest in the system sometime in the past so I wanted to update you. The best way to get the articles is via my Web page at http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe. In the second article, I'm missing the two equations and the table, but I hope to have them in by the time you get this message. Also, more legible versions of the schematics will be made available on my FTP site (same address, userid: anonymous). The DOS version of the PC software will be place on the FTP site also. Please send me any comments and questions. I'm working on the 3-axis accelerometer toy now. Let me know if you're interested. It will have a 128x128 graphic LCD in a handheld device. The accelerometers are attached to an unsprung (hopefully close to the roll center) point on the car and a cable will plug into the unit. Should record about a half-hour of data - great for autocrossing. -tim drury From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 22:19:06 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA23542; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:01:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from qsi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA23537; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:01:01 -0500 Received: from qsirmt09.qsi.com by qsi.com (4.1/3.2.012693-Quality Systems Incorporated); id AA06725 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 96 17:01:47 EST Received: by qsirmt09.qsi.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE5C6.702EA3A0@qsirmt09.qsi.com>; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:00:15 -0600 Message-Id: <01BAE5C6.702EA3A0@qsirmt09.qsi.com> From: Jim Pearl To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: EFI with SPIF? Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:00:14 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BAE5C6.703644C0" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE5C6.703644C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is one company that makes an aftermarket Knock Sensor that claims = to retard the cylinders individually. It includes a meter showing the = amount of retard and an optional A/F meter as well. The Electromotive = computers look pretty good with VERY powerful software, however the = software is pretty ridiculously priced for the average car nut like = myself. A shop maybe, but not a tinkerer - too bad, if it weren't for = that I'd have one on my car now. They're local to me too and I'm told = they're good people. I can tell you a bit more about them if you're = interested.. While we're on the subject, anyone have any idea as to the best way to = make a "knock meter" similar to the MSD unit for a GM knock sensor ala = Buick GN? The GM GN sensor appears to be the same as my DFI sensor = including the little add-on processor that sits in the engine = compartment. Even something as simple as a tri-color LED to indicate = low, medium, and high knock would be fine. I'd like something other than = my laptop or the stutter my car makes to indicate when the sensor is = indicating knock. Perhaps even a way to disconnect it from the DFI and = just drive the LED(s) would be good...=20 Would the MSD unit possibly work in conjunction with mine maybe? it = doesn't appear to use the second processor.. Thanks! ---------- >From: Derrick Early[SMTP:early@finite.nrl.navy.mil] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 1996 1:19 AM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE: EFI with SPIF? > Check out the new DFI Sequential box, I'm pretty sure it does this. = =3D > There old boxes were some sort of batch fire but did do knock sensing = - =3D > I have one of these on my Mustang.. Thank you for the reply Jim. I talked to the guys at Electromotive. =20 They said that they can make their TEC-II do SPFI, but they asked why would you want to do that. They normally do a phased squirt of two injectors at a time for a 4 cyl engine. In other words the injectors are fired when its piston is at the top of its stroke. I asked if their knock control scheme retards all four cylinders, and they said yes. They haven't allowed for the control of the timing for each of the cylinders like Bosche does. He suggested that I shouldn't be tuning so close to knock anyways. 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Ah! but these injectors aren't connected directly accross 12V. Manufacturers either use a current limiting resistor or peak and hold drivers. Some new vehicles now use high impedence injectors (16 ohm??) so the injector can be hit directly with 12V and thus save a few cents per vehicle. Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate CIM Centre - Swinburne University PO Box 218 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 Australia Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 18 23:06:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA23920; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:50:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA23915; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:50:45 -0500 From: marchil@ibm.net Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id WAA88470 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:50:42 GMT Received: from slip129-37-164-71.pq.ca.ibm.net(129.37.164.71) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id smapXoCrx; Thu Jan 18 22:50:25 1996 Received: by localhost (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.9)/1.0um) id AA0016; Thu, 18 Jan 96 17:49:34 -0800 Message-Id: <9601190149.AA0016@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 17:46:40 To: diy_efi Subject: Opinions on idea ...... X-Mailer: Ultimedia Mail/2 Lite, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Id: <15_72_1_822005202> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Description: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Rod You have the right idea but the flap-type air meter will restrict the air flow, I think you would be better off with a MAF sensor and use a frequency to voltage converter and then obtain Vout. U will have much better air flow and less air turbulance in the manifold. If you could Email me information on the 12A turbo you have in Australia it would be welcomed since we did not have this option on the RX-7's in north america, I to am a rotary lover, and could get this engine from a local mazda dealer but he does not have any specs, only that it would cost me 1200$CA for a complete used engine. Thank's Alain //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Marchil@IBM.NET // Alain Marchildon // 1271 Bernard West // Outremont, Quebec Canada // H2V 1V8 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 00:52:12 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA24314; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:31:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA24309; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 19:30:57 -0500 From: KMJMS@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA06155 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 19:30:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 19:30:19 -0500 Message-ID: <960118193016_120716879@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: EFI with SPIF? Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi guys I am having trouble viewing the files you send can anybody help out? Kirk From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 01:18:52 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA24450; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:04:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA24445; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:04:56 -0500 From: SRavet@bangate.compaq.com Received: from twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com(really [131.168.254.216]) by wotan.compaq.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 18 Jan 96 19:04:53 -0600 (CST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.2 built 17-jan-96) Received: from bangate.compaq.com(really [131.168.114.234]) by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 18 Jan 96 19:04:51 -0600 (CST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.1 built 17-jan-96) Received: by bangate.compaq.com; Thu, 18 Jan 96 19:04:38 CST Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 19:04:37 CST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Subject: Cyberdyne A/F meter Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu This was posted to the monte carlo list. Can anyone comment on the accuracy of the Cyberdyne A/F meter? This thing apparently costs about $30... ------------------- Steve- I too am amazes at my next statement, but the Cyberdyne *can* tell the aproximate a/f ratio with their 10 segment meter!! With the meter came a sheet that has the meaning of eack segment of the gauge. It gives the a/f mixture for gas, propane & alcohol! The most rich is 12:1 and the most lean was (is) 17:1. I could even see the O2 sensor heating up when I did a cold start. The lites would lite up one by one till I had about 12:1 a/f mixture and in a few more minutes, the engine would go into closed loop and the gauge would start bouncing up and down to achieve the stoich mixture. I'm telling you, this little baby worked real good. At wot, w/o the larger fuel pump, I would drop the lites (lean out) at about 16 lbs of boost and 6500 rpm, with the larger pump, I could hold 20 psi till 7500 rpm. This gauge saved my ass a few times. Frank ------------------- Steve Ravet sravet@bangate.compaq.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 01:20:27 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA24469; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:09:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from lucy.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA24464; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:09:36 -0500 Received: from [136.186.89.110] by lucy.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA11267; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:09:30 +1100 Message-Id: <199601190109.AA11267@lucy.swin.edu.au> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:09:40 EST+10 Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On 18 Jan 96 at 14:19, Markus Strobl wrote: > According to the service manual on my 96 Camaro, the PCM monitors > the resistance of each fuel injector, and if the resistance drops > too low, the driver is disabled, and a trouble code is set. > The new motorola (and Harris?) 'high impedence" drivers do this. The most important reason for fuses is to stop those those clouds of smoke when something goes horribly wrong - You will find that EVERY 12V rail in a vehicle (except maybe the starter motor) will (or should) have some protection. Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate CIM Centre - Swinburne University PO Box 218 Hawthorn Victoria 3122 Australia Phone: +61 3 9214 8296 Fax: +61 3 9819 4949 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 01:47:37 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA24556; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:33:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from lynx.cbr.dit.csiro.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA24551; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:33:55 -0500 Received: from polaris.cbr.dit.csiro.au by lynx.cbr.dit.csiro.au (8.6.12/1.06S) id MAA19761; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:33:50 +1100 From: gavin@cbr.dit.csiro.au (Gavin Walker) Received: by polaris.cbr.dit.csiro.au (8.6.12/1.07C) id MAA21567; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:33:49 +1100 Message-Id: <199601190133.MAA21567@polaris.cbr.dit.csiro.au> Subject: ECUs To: DIY_EFI (DIY EFI) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:33:48 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1567 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello, Here's a newbie thinking about the obvious. In control systems you there are three main categories: stochastic, derived and hybrids. Stochastic systems analyse input and out and and try and set up discrete mappings according to optmisation criteria. Derived attempt to solve the physical systems and so specify them as equations rather than tables. A hydbrid uses both where appropriate. Using empirical data to calibrate derived equations and pure stochastic solutions where the equations are too difficult. It seems, from the discussion here, most ECUs seem to be stochastic. I assume this is due to the "try it and see" empirical background of automotive engineers. My soldering skills are best not talked about in polite circles so an ideal development platform would be one like. - ECU running a multitasking operating system - Services available to access input and manipulate outputs (like timing, etc). - Each service would have a local butter to store/read data cyclicly so the optimization can be done externally. - Persistent code/data storage such as FRAM chips. - Laptop interface So you'd have some, say Java, firmware on the FRAM and more bulky code on the PC. Adding new drivers would create new Java objects to manipulate them. Does anything close to this exist or is it all pipe dreams? -- _--_|\ -|- Gavin Walker / \ | \_.--.*/ <- Canberra, gavin.walker@dit.csiro.au v Australia Phone +61-6-2167030 Fax +61-6-2167111 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 04:46:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA25257; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 04:34:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from net.dris.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA25252; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:34:00 -0500 Received: from peo7.dris.com (peo7.dris.com [199.120.109.207]) by net.dris.com (8.7.1/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA11435 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:41:04 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:41:04 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601190441.WAA11435@net.dris.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.dris.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@dris.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >If you do not have access to a dyno, use an oxygen sensor, there is a thread >running on them right now. Just drive around and tune it that way > > >Peter Wales I have actually tuned my car this way, using an o2 sensor to find various points of the map. The other points can be extrapolated from a curve generated from the points that were tested. It really works good for a street car. David J. Doddek |pantera@dris.com Owner SGD Electronics & Development Engr for Caterpillar |h 309 685-7965 Formula SAE Team Sidewinder 94-95 |w 309 578-2931 89 T-bird SC, 69 Fairlane w/SGD EFI |fx 217 428-4686 74 Pantera w/Electromitive Tec-II Twin turbos and Nitros | Hey, If you are going to go fast, go REEEAAL FAST. | From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 04:46:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA25269; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 04:35:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from net.dris.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA25264; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:34:40 -0500 Received: from peo7.dris.com (peo7.dris.com [199.120.109.207]) by net.dris.com (8.7.1/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA11447 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:41:51 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:41:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601190441.WAA11447@net.dris.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.dris.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@dris.com (David Doddek) Subject: circuit cellar magazine Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Many people have ask about Circuit Cellar INK magizine. I am including here the subscription info. It is really a good mag and worth the price. Send: $21.95 US $31.95 Canada $49.95 Other (in US funds) to: Circuit Cellar Ink Subscriptions PO BOX 698 Holmes, PA. 19043-9613 Or call 1-800-269-6301 David J. Doddek |pantera@dris.com Owner SGD Electronics & Development Engr for Caterpillar |h 309 685-7965 Formula SAE Team Sidewinder 94-95 |w 309 578-2931 89 T-bird SC, 69 Fairlane w/SGD EFI |fx 217 428-4686 74 Pantera w/Electromitive Tec-II Twin turbos and Nitros | Hey, If you are going to go fast, go REEEAAL FAST. | From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 04:46:28 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA25262; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 04:34:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from net.dris.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA25250; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:33:43 -0500 Received: from peo7.dris.com (peo7.dris.com [199.120.109.207]) by net.dris.com (8.7.1/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA11432 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:40:52 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:40:52 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601190440.WAA11432@net.dris.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.dris.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@dris.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >I've never seen a fuse blow in a car for any legitimate reason, only >when I was fubling around with the battery connected. And a fuse adds a >few more connections to go bad. Ever have any experiences with those >crappy fuses the German auto makers loved. > >/Bill > > I have actually seen a fuse blow with age. Especially a fast blow type that is subject to high turn on transients like a fuse protecting a motor. As the transient hits, the fuse is heated up for a brief moment but not enough to blow. This crystilizes the fuse link partially actually degrading it's performance. Also don't forget the really shitty fuses that lucas used. David J. Doddek |pantera@dris.com Owner SGD Electronics & Development Engr for Caterpillar |h 309 685-7965 Formula SAE Team Sidewinder 94-95 |w 309 578-2931 89 T-bird SC, 69 Fairlane w/SGD EFI |fx 217 428-4686 74 Pantera w/Electromitive Tec-II Twin turbos and Nitros | Hey, If you are going to go fast, go REEEAAL FAST. | From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 05:09:47 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA25355; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 04:59:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA25350; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 23:59:13 -0500 Received: (from steveb@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA02343 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:45:21 +1300 (NZDT) From: Steve Baldwin Message-Id: <199601190445.RAA02343@kcbbs.gen.nz> Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:45:20 +1300 (NZDT) In-Reply-To: <199601181601.LAA05542@magicnet.magicnet.net> from "Peter Wales" at Jan 18, 96 11:01:28 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > If you do not have access to a dyno, use an oxygen sensor, there is a thread > running on them right now. Just drive around and tune it that way Peter, I was intending to use an O2 sensor in my own system but only as a first approximation, primarily to give me an idea of volumetric efficiency at various rpm and perhaps to calibrate the airflow sensor. Your response above, infers (to me anyway) that you can tell a bit more than this. I would have thought that 'seat of the pants' would fall in between an O2 sensor and a dyno as scientific apparatus. What have I missed ? Steve. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 05:40:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA25470; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:28:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA25465; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:28:10 -0500 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA26856 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:28:08 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:28:08 -0500 Message-ID: <960118230008_120918142@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Injectors and fuses Date: 96-01-18 11:01:46 EST From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) >> I would think that most auto >> vmakers use some fuse in the circuit, whether it is replaceable >> (read visible) or not is another issue. May be just a fusible >> link in the wiring somewhere. > Darrell, > No auto manufacturer is going to bury a fusible link in the wiring > anywhere which will totally disable the car and cannot be replaced! > No fuses in the injector feeds. CPU maybe, but not injectors. > Peter Wales Peter, GM uses fuses in all injector circuits that I have seen. Remember that the fuse is not there to protect drivers in the ECM, it is to prevent a fire in the wiring if something goes wrong! Your house is wired with CBs or fuses, right? These are not to protect the device you plugged in. They are there to protect the wiring and prevent a fire! Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 05:52:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA25517; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:40:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA25512; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:40:26 -0500 From: Lfaustini@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA18616 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:40:24 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:40:24 -0500 Message-ID: <960118232356_400814005@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Ford Sierra Cosworth ECU Prom Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Jeez, want to sart a wholy war?? just say a few words about who used what microcontroler and why... :) 6803 is not a bad chip, and I am sure the Cosworth system works well. I was -just- saying, if I had the resources, which maybe Cosworth did not, I would choose the 8061 (which is a custom 8096) over the 6803 any day. And maybe twice on sunday. Doesn't mattter, I would choose a 6811, or even better, a 68000 (332??) if I had total financial freedom..... and then I would surround it in Altera FPGA's.... and have a car that was smarter and faster then the average fax-moedm.. :) (which usually has 2X the power of PC its hooked up to :) ) ---Lou From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 06:14:07 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA25578; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 06:01:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from jerboa.devetwa.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA25573; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:01:32 -0500 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by jerboa.devetwa.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA08511 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:11:03 +0800 Received: from wpsmtp.devetwa.edu.au(163.232.4.1) by jerboa via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma008508; Fri Jan 19 14:10:11 1996 Received: from WATafe-Message_Server by wpsmtp.devetwa.edu.au with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:58:50 +0800 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:01:48 +0800 From: Danny Wallace To: DIY_EFI Subject: C cellar mag - reply - in Oz Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu For those in Australia a couple of other options: 1) If you WWW access, CC Ink have a site at http://www.circellar.com/ with subscription and back issue info if you care to send your credit card details via the net. 2) International Subscription Agencies Pty Ltd will liase with the mag. The rate is about $20 extra ($91 for the yearly 12 issues). Ph: 1800 777 134 (freecall) P.O. Box 709 Toowong Qld 4066 Danny Wallace wallad@devetwa.edu.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 12:58:46 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA26432; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:48:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA26427; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:47:57 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.134]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Fri, 19 Jan 96 21:29:11 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 21:29:11 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: ECUs Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hello, > Here's a newbie thinking about the obvious. > > In control systems you there are three main categories: stochastic, >derived and hybrids. Stochastic systems analyse input and out and and >try and set up discrete mappings according to optmisation criteria. >Derived attempt to solve the physical systems and so specify them as >equations rather than tables. A hydbrid uses both where appropriate. >Using empirical data to calibrate derived equations and pure >stochastic solutions where the equations are too difficult. > > It seems, from the discussion here, most ECUs seem to be >stochastic. I assume this is due to the "try it and see" empirical >background of automotive engineers. > > My soldering skills are best not talked about in polite circles so >an ideal development platform would be one like. > > - ECU running a multitasking operating system > - Services available to access input and manipulate outputs (like > timing, etc). > - Each service would have a local butter to store/read data > cyclicly so the optimization can be done externally. > - Persistent code/data storage such as FRAM chips. > - Laptop interface > > > So you'd have some, say Java, firmware on the FRAM and more bulky >code on the PC. Adding new drivers would create new Java objects to >manipulate them. > > Does anything close to this exist or is it all pipe dreams? > >-- > _--_|\ -|- Gavin Walker > / \ | > \_.--.*/ <- Canberra, gavin.walker@dit.csiro.au > v Australia Phone +61-6-2167030 Fax +61-6-2167111 > Gavin,Gavin,Gavin, remember an engine is just a dirty smelly thing which does not liked being "modelled". regards, Mark Boxsell. MRB Design From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 12:58:47 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA26463; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:49:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from finite.nrl.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA26458; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:49:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199601191249.HAA26458@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by finite.nrl.navy.mil (1.37.109.4/16.2) id AA01940; Fri, 19 Jan 96 07:49:47 -0500 From: Derrick Early Subject: RE: EFI with SPFI? To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 7:49:46 "EST In-Reply-To: <01BAE5C6.702EA3A0@qsirmt09.qsi.com>; from "Jim Pearl" at Jan 18, 96 5:00 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Jim, > There is one company that makes an aftermarket Knock Sensor that claims = > to retard the cylinders individually. It includes a meter showing the = > amount of retard and an optional A/F meter as well. Who is it? > they're good people. I can tell you a bit more about them if you're = > interested.. Any additional information about Electromotive will be greatly appreciated. Yours, -- Derrick Early early@finite.nrl.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 12:58:50 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA26449; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:49:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA26443; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:49:17 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.134]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Fri, 19 Jan 96 21:37:29 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 21:37:29 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >> >> If you do not have access to a dyno, use an oxygen sensor, there is a thread >> running on them right now. Just drive around and tune it that way > > >Peter, > >I was intending to use an O2 sensor in my own system but only as a first >approximation, primarily to give me an idea of volumetric efficiency at >various rpm and perhaps to calibrate the airflow sensor. >Your response above, infers (to me anyway) that you can tell a bit more >than this. I would have thought that 'seat of the pants' would fall in >between an O2 sensor and a dyno as scientific apparatus. >What have I missed ? > >Steve. > Steve, this stuff is like anything if you can measure what you are doing you can sort it out. The better you can measure the better your result. (It also helps if you know what your are doing.) But 'seat of the pants' can be a lot of fun depending on what your driving ! regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 12:58:52 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA26439; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:48:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kyoko.mpx.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA26434; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 07:48:09 -0500 Received: from jolt(really [203.17.137.134]) by kyoko.mpx.com.au via smail with smtp id for ; Fri, 19 Jan 96 21:31:03 +1100 (EST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.8 built 5-oct-95) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 21:31:03 +1100 (EST) X-Sender: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: mrb@mail.mpx.com.au (Mark Boxsell) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >>I've never seen a fuse blow in a car for any legitimate reason, only >>when I was fubling around with the battery connected. And a fuse adds a >>few more connections to go bad. Ever have any experiences with those >>crappy fuses the German auto makers loved. >> >>/Bill >> >> >I have actually seen a fuse blow with age. Especially a fast blow type that >is subject to high turn on transients like a fuse protecting a motor. As >the transient hits, the fuse is heated up for a brief moment but not enough >to blow. This crystilizes the fuse link partially actually degrading it's >performance. > >Also don't forget the really shitty fuses that lucas used. > >David J. Doddek |pantera@dris.com >Owner SGD Electronics & Development Engr for Caterpillar |h 309 685-7965 >Formula SAE Team Sidewinder 94-95 |w 309 578-2931 >89 T-bird SC, 69 Fairlane w/SGD EFI |fx 217 428-4686 >74 Pantera w/Electromitive Tec-II Twin turbos and Nitros | >Hey, If you are going to go fast, go REEEAAL FAST. | > > Are yes! Lucas prince of darkness. regards, Mark Boxsell MRB Design From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 14:40:21 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA26805; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:28:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from moe.infi.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA26800; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:28:31 -0500 Received: from Default by moe.infi.net with SMTP (Infinet-S-3.3) id JAA16946; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:28:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199601191428.JAA16946@moe.infi.net> X-Sender: orin@nr.infi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:22:42 -0500 To: diy_efi From: orin@nr.infi.net (Orin B. Harding) Subject: Injector Data Needed X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have information on the injectors that were used by GM on the 1.9L, 2.0L, and the 2.3L or 2.5L "Iron Duke" 4's in the mid to late '80's. This was a throttle body injection system..Thanks in advance for any info you have regarding #/hr, markings, etc.... After I sent this message I made a mistake and removed myself from the mailing list....If anyone has sent a reply to this question, please send it again....Thanks... Orin Harding - Greensboro, NC ('74 MGB-GT - '79 MGB Roadster) From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 14:40:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA26816; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:31:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA26811; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:31:31 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm3-01.magicnet.net [204.96.116.21]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA26046 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:31:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199601191431.JAA26046@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:31:34 -0500 To: diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >I was intending to use an O2 sensor in my own system but only as a first >approximation, primarily to give me an idea of volumetric efficiency at >various rpm and perhaps to calibrate the airflow sensor. >Your response above, infers (to me anyway) that you can tell a bit more >than this. I would have thought that 'seat of the pants' would fall in >between an O2 sensor and a dyno as scientific apparatus. >What have I missed ? The problem will be in the steady state conditions. It will be very difficult to tell that the fuelling is correct when travelling on a road at 50 MPH. You could adjust it quite a long way to go from too rich to too lean andthe engine would just run the same. The situation when you are accelerating is different as the fuelling will have to be closer to correct to run nicely. So, if you get the fuelling correct at steady speed, when you accelerate you will only have to supply a small amount of enrichment to get smooth acceleration without hesitation or bogging. Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 15:00:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA26936; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:50:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA26931; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:49:58 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm1-03.magicnet.net [204.96.116.53]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA27614 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:49:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199601191449.JAA27614@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:49:55 -0500 To: diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > No auto manufacturer is going to bury a fusible link in the wiring > > anywhere which will totally disable the car and cannot be replaced! > GM puts 2 fuses in the system for the ECM system. One 20 Amp one permantly on for the computer and the other 20 Amp one switched by the ignition. The second one also feeds the injectors and the fuel pump and anything else which is controlled by the ECM. No fusible links! Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 16:19:39 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA27458; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:00:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id LAA27453; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:00:44 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:00:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199601191600.LAA27453@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: Tommy.Palm@oron.ds.sll.se Subject: Digital Distributorless Ignition System Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Item Subject: Meddelandetext > >The Programmable, Digital Distributorless Ignition System is finished! Thank >God. Anyhow, all of you had expressed interest in the system sometime in the >past so I wanted to update you. > >The best way to get the articles is via my Web page at >http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe. I tried to find this website but it did not exist. Whats wrong? Tommy > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 20:50:37 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA28485; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:27:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.pilot.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA28480; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:26:54 -0500 Received: from verity.com (unknown-143-5.verity.com [192.187.143.5]) by mail.pilot.net with SMTP id MAA09250 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:26:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from cato.verity.com by verity.com (4.1/SMI-4.1_Verity-Main-950202) id AA08348; Fri, 19 Jan 96 12:27:49 PST From: neville@Verity.COM (Neville Newman) Received: (neville@localhost) by cato.verity.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA24868 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:26:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:26:25 -0800 Message-Id: <199601192026.MAA24868@cato.verity.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ...... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: marchil@ibm.net > Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 17:46:40 > > Hi Rod > > You have the right idea but the flap-type air meter will restrict the air flow, I think > you would be better off with a MAF sensor and use a frequency to voltage converter and > then obtain Vout. > U will have much better air flow and less air turbulance in the manifold. > i had wondered about this myself, so when i had my car (1.3L Fiat w/ L-Jet) on a dyno a while back, i gave it a test. At full-power, with stady readinds on the dyno screen, i pinned air vane in place and pulled the hose off the backside. There was no change in any of the readings from the dyno or the Sun 4-gas analyzer that was hooked up. The obvious conclusion is that the mixture didn't change, and thus there was no difference in restriction between having the air vane sensor in the way or not. Not the most scientific test in the world, but it convinced me. -neville From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 20:57:13 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA28605; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:38:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA28600; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:38:53 -0500 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0tdMrA-000CwyC; Fri, 19 Jan 96 13:52 CST Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:52:16 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199601191449.JAA27614@magicnet.magicnet.net> from "Peter Wales" at Jan 19, 96 09:49:55 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 794 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Peter Wales writes: > > > No auto manufacturer is going to bury a fusible link in the wiring > > > anywhere which will totally disable the car and cannot be replaced! > > > GM puts 2 fuses in the system for the ECM system. One 20 Amp one permantly > on for the computer and the other 20 Amp one switched by the ignition. > > The second one also feeds the injectors and the fuel pump and anything else > which is controlled by the ECM. > > No fusible links! My 91 GMC 2500 (TBI 350) had about half a dozen fusible links. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.hotrod.com (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 22:18:07 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA29297; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 22:05:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA29292; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:05:23 -0500 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com id AA05820 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:03:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199601192203.AA05820@internet-mail.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:03:14 -0500 Received: by internet-mail.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:03:14 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:01:25 +0500 From: ehernan3@ford.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 513 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu "Steve, this stuff is like anything if you can measure what you are doing you can sort it out." Don't count on it! For example, no one but your exhaust valves and piston crowns can tell you what running stoich at WOT feels like. Without certain feedback from the track timer, O2 sensor or even exhaust temps, you are only likely to feel stoich to lean mixtures when you burn your pistons. THEN the car slows down. Even the track timer can be dangerous, so it more than helps if you know what you are doing. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 22:32:47 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA29356; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 22:16:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA29351; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:16:39 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm5-15.magicnet.net [204.96.116.165]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA10846 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:16:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199601192216.RAA10846@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:16:42 -0500 To: diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Jonathan R. Lusky writes > >My 91 GMC 2500 (TBI 350) had about half a dozen fusible links. > In the injector supply? Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 19 23:54:39 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA01041; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 23:36:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix13.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA01036; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 18:36:44 -0500 Received: from by ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id PAA03033; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:20:24 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:20:24 -0800 Message-Id: <199601192320.PAA03033@ix13.ix.netcom.com> From: eric_e@ix.netcom.com (Eric Elliott ) Subject: PROM programmer info needed To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I need information and software for a GTEK prom programmer. Model 7228, serial # 2CX0606. Without the software, it is just a small box with two jacks and a power cable. Eric Elliott From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 00:24:01 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA01192; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 00:13:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from diamond.idbsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA01187; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 19:13:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199601200013.TAA01187@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by diamond.idbsu.edu (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA055676923; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:15:23 -0700 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:15:23 -0700 From: Andrew Huang To: diy_efi Cc: diy_efi In-Reply-To: <199601192026.MAA24868@cato.verity.com> (neville@verity.com) Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ...... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, > U will have much better air flow and less air turbulance in the manifold. I'm a new name on the list and, throwing caution to the wind, might I ask whether turbulence is a bad thing in a manifold? At one point, I believe, turbulence was sought as a feature to promote mixing of the mixture, as it were. Or, has the technology of the injectors obviated the need for it? -andy huang (Seeking, slowly, to port fuel injection from a VW CIS K-jet to a Lotus Europa.) From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 00:35:49 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA01256; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 00:28:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from big.fishnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA01250; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 19:28:30 -0500 Received: from port15.fishnet.net (port15.fishnet.net [205.216.133.215]) by big.fishnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA23428 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:28:28 GMT Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:28:28 GMT Message-Id: <199601191628.QAA23428@big.fishnet.net> X-Sender: fcmefi@mail.fishnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ...... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >i had wondered about this myself, so when i had my car (1.3L Fiat w/ L-Jet) >on a dyno a while back, i gave it a test. At full-power, with stady readinds >on the dyno screen, i pinned air vane in place and pulled the hose off >the backside. There was no change in any of the readings from the dyno or >the Sun 4-gas analyzer that was hooked up. The obvious conclusion is that >the mixture didn't change, and thus there was no difference in restriction >between having the air vane sensor in the way or not. Not the most scientific >test in the world, but it convinced me. > > -neville I did a test some years ago when I had the stock EFI on the turbo rotary. put a vac gauge just downstream of the air flow meter. If I remember right I saw 5-7" vac under boost at 6-7kRPM. That is one of the reasons I switched to a TEC. Fred From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 01:14:47 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA01360; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 01:03:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pacific.mea.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA01355; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:03:36 -0500 From: PRodda@MSM.mea.com Received: from [140.237.101.24] by pacific.mea.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA28997; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:03:33 -0500 X400-Originator: PRodda@MSM.mea.com X400-Recipients: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=JUNK/ADMD=JUNK/C=US/;0013500001282557000004] X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Priority: Urgent Message-Id: <0013500001282557000004*@MHS> To: "DIY(u)EFI(a)coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: stochiometric mixture WOT workaround Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:03:34 -0800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >"Steve, > this stuff is like anything if you can measure what you are doing you can >sort it out." > >Don't count on it! For example, no one but your exhaust valves and piston >crowns can tell you what running stoich at WOT feels like. Without certain >feedback from the track timer, O2 sensor or even exhaust temps, you are only >likely to feel stoich to lean mixtures when you burn your pistons. THEN the >car >slows down. Even the track timer can be dangerous, so it more than helps if >you >know what you are doing. comment on the above - i have used EGT to flag a cockpit warning light when EGT runs too high for too long (running open loop ECU with turbo + injection) as a counter to accidentally running high WOT EGT. crude, but it works well enough when you're DIY at this game. originally intended having it trigger water/methanol injection to lower temps - abandoned idea as we are talking fast road use here not track (i don't want to have to fill a container with MW50 every now and again). mebbe use EGT as additional feedback into ECU to avoid ye meltdown syndrome? comments? paul. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 01:14:49 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA01375; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 01:05:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix11.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA01370; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 20:05:40 -0500 Received: from by ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id PAA27399; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:21:36 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:21:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199601192321.PAA27399@ix11.ix.netcom.com> From: eric_e@ix.netcom.com (Eric Elliott ) Subject: Available wiring and hardware To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I have a source in the custom engine and wiring harness industry thru which I can get the services and items listed below. Custom wiring harnesses under $300. All new parts, correct wire, simplified harness with all connections for proper closed loop operation. No used OEM plugs on butt splices! Kits of terminals and plug bodies for GM engines. Other engines added per demand. Accessory mounting brackets machined from aluminum stock. Tunnel ram manifolds converted for EFI use on US V8 engines, 260 to 600 CI. Modification of existing harnesses for simple connection to your vehicle. Modification of existing harnesses for added sensors and actuators. For $150, a wiring harness kit of plugs, terminals, heatshrink tubing and wire, partially assembled. The partial assembly avoids the need for all but one special terminal crimper. To install: Plug wires onto your sensors, actuators and injectors. Route the wires as needed. Slide heatshrink tubing on wires as needed. Terminate wires to computer plugs. Splice some wires in the harness. Shrink the heatshrink tubing. The special crimper would be a Packard tool for GM ECU or other tool to match your computer plugs. Or the computer plugs could be sold wired with a bags of butt splices included. I hope to be able to offer complete kits to connect (install) your computer to your engine. If all goes well, all sensors, actuators, connectors will be available as a low cost package. Eric Elliott From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 02:28:25 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA01705; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 02:19:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix2.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA01700; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 21:18:58 -0500 Received: from by ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id PAA14119; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:22:57 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:22:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199601192322.PAA14119@ix2.ix.netcom.com> From: eric_e@ix.netcom.com (Eric Elliott ) Subject: Electric parts sources To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi, I need a source for Ford electrical connectors. From Ford, the connectors cost over twice the price of GMC connectors. I need a source for electric terminal crimping tools for Packard (GMC) terminals. Packard crimpers are available at $25 to $150. Are cheaper tools available for the connectors used on GMC engines? Are crankshaft timing wheels still to be laser cut? Could the crimp tools also be laser cut? The tools would not need hardened steel to do enough terminals for 1 or 2 engines. I need sources for Bosch and Chrysler electrical parts including all sensors, actuators, connectors used in engine systems. Car Dealer prices are high enough to justify carburetors! Eric Elliott From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 02:47:29 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id CAA01763; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 02:37:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix6.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA01752; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 21:36:53 -0500 Received: from by ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id SAA20523; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 18:36:28 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 18:36:28 -0800 Message-Id: <199601200236.SAA20523@ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ..... To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > > From >>there it should be simple to compute the amount of fuel required for any >>flow into the engine. Any drawback to this sort of approach, or is there >>a simpler way to do this. > >Rob, > >This is a theoretical approach, and IMHO it won't work!!! > >There will be more variables to consider. Battery voltage, water >temperature, humidity, etc etc. The problem is that although you may get >within striking distance, you would be better off building something, >generating the mapping system and then mapping it on a dyno, either chassis >or engine. That way you actually generate the numbers the engine wants and >not the theoretical ones which are only ballpark, and will need mapping in >anyway. > >If you do not have access to a dyno, use an oxygen sensor, there is a thread >running on them right now. Just drive around and tune it that way > > >Peter Wales >President Superchips Inc Florida >Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham >"Timing is everything" > >the BIG problem is trying to meet emission standards using a mathamatical model other than that keep everything on the rich side and i believe no problem. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 19:18:28 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA03498; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 19:05:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.interramp.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA03490; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 14:05:29 -0500 Received: from bullwinkle by smtp1.interramp.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1.3-PSI-irsmtp) id OAA11719; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 14:05:20 -0500 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 14:05:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199601201905.OAA11719@smtp1.interramp.com> X-Sender: usb01259@pop3.interramp.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: sandy ganz Subject: Re: Digital Distributorless Ignition System Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The web site and ftp address dont seem to work, are they correct? Sandy At 03:43 PM 1/18/96 EST, you wrote: > >The Programmable, Digital Distributorless Ignition System is finished! Thank >God. Anyhow, all of you had expressed interest in the system sometime in the >past so I wanted to update you. > >The best way to get the articles is via my Web page at >http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe. In the second article, I'm missing the two >equations and the table, but I hope to have them in by the time you get this >message. Also, more legible versions of the schematics will be made available >on my FTP site (same address, userid: anonymous). The DOS version of the PC >software will be place on the FTP site also. > >Please send me any comments and questions. I'm working on the 3-axis >accelerometer toy now. Let me know if you're interested. It will have a >128x128 graphic LCD in a handheld device. The accelerometers are attached to >an unsprung (hopefully close to the roll center) point on the car and a cable >will plug into the unit. Should record about a half-hour of data - great for >autocrossing. > >-tim drury > > > ************************************** Name: sandy ganz E-mail: sandyg@visix.com (sandy ganz) * __ \ / / ( / \/ \/ / __) / /\ * Machine: Bullwinkle ************************************** From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 21:45:50 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA04124; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:34:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hp9000a1.uam.mx by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA04119; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:34:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199601202134.QAA04119@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by hp9000a1.uam.mx (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA279153747; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 15:35:48 -0600 From: Alcantara Mendez Oscar Subject: Map's chart To: diy_efi Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 15:35:47 CST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85.2.1] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry I have a lot of troubles the last week but finally I found my charts. Hg Volts 14 1.81 15 1.99 16 2.17 17 2.35 18 2.53 19 2.71 20 2.89 21 3.07 22 3.25 23 3.44 24 3.62 25 3.8 26 3.99 27 4.17 28 4.36 29 4.54 30 4.72 31 4.9 32 5.08 The pin out is: 1 2 3 1 2 3 5.1 Vout GND Front view This chart is for normal aspirated engines How I can put a graphic chart on the DIY_EFI? Forgive my delay. Oscar Alcantara. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 22:02:59 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA04204; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:56:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA04199; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:56:12 -0500 From: marchil@ibm.net Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA53481 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:56:07 GMT Received: from slip129-37-164-79.pq.ca.ibm.net(129.37.164.79) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id smaV_EDFW; Sat Jan 20 21:55:54 1996 Received: by localhost (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.9)/1.0um) id AA0013; Sat, 20 Jan 96 16:18:02 -0800 Message-Id: <9601210018.AA0013@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 15:40:22 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ...... X-Mailer: Ultimedia Mail/2 Lite, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Id: <11_56_1_822170423> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Description: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:15:23 -0700 From: Andrew Huang To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu //I'm a new name on the list and, throwing caution to the wind, might I //ask whether turbulence is a bad thing in a manifold? At one point, I //believe, turbulence was sought as a feature to promote mixing of the //mixture, as it were. Or, has the technology of the injectors obviated //the need for it? //-andy huang Hi Turbulence was yes it was, but only to properly mix the fuel and air in the intake manifold with carb's or tbi's, since we are injecting the fuel close to the intake port we are looking for smooth passages to get the least amount of friction thus we have more cfm, now days to mix the fuel and air heads with swirl combustion chambers are used. //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Marchil@IBM.NET // Alain Marchildon // 1271 Bernard West // Outremont, Quebec Canada // H2V 1V8 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 22:03:01 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA04227; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:57:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA04216; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:57:14 -0500 From: marchil@ibm.net Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA12573 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:57:09 GMT Received: from slip129-37-164-79.pq.ca.ibm.net(129.37.164.79) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id smaMxECrx; Sat Jan 20 21:56:50 1996 Received: by localhost (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.9)/1.0um) id AA0015; Sat, 20 Jan 96 16:19:12 -0800 Message-Id: <9601210019.AA0015@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 15:40:22 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ...... X-Mailer: Ultimedia Mail/2 Lite, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Id: <11_56_1_822170423> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Description: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:15:23 -0700 From: Andrew Huang To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu //I'm a new name on the list and, throwing caution to the wind, might I //ask whether turbulence is a bad thing in a manifold? At one point, I //believe, turbulence was sought as a feature to promote mixing of the //mixture, as it were. Or, has the technology of the injectors obviated //the need for it? //-andy huang Hi Turbulence was yes it was, but only to properly mix the fuel and air in the intake manifold with carb's or tbi's, since we are injecting the fuel close to the intake port we are looking for smooth passages to get the least amount of friction thus we have more cfm, now days to mix the fuel and air heads with swirl combustion chambers are used. //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Marchil@IBM.NET // Alain Marchildon // 1271 Bernard West // Outremont, Quebec Canada // H2V 1V8 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 22:03:03 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA04212; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:56:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA04207; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:56:43 -0500 From: marchil@ibm.net Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA51461 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:56:38 GMT Received: from slip129-37-164-79.pq.ca.ibm.net(129.37.164.79) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id smaV_4Dmb; Sat Jan 20 21:56:17 1996 Received: by localhost (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.9)/1.0um) id AA0014; Sat, 20 Jan 96 16:18:36 -0800 Message-Id: <9601210018.AA0014@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 15:40:22 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ...... X-Mailer: Ultimedia Mail/2 Lite, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Id: <11_56_1_822170423> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Description: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 17:15:23 -0700 From: Andrew Huang To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Cc: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu //I'm a new name on the list and, throwing caution to the wind, might I //ask whether turbulence is a bad thing in a manifold? At one point, I //believe, turbulence was sought as a feature to promote mixing of the //mixture, as it were. Or, has the technology of the injectors obviated //the need for it? //-andy huang Hi Turbulence was yes it was, but only to properly mix the fuel and air in the intake manifold with carb's or tbi's, since we are injecting the fuel close to the intake port we are looking for smooth passages to get the least amount of friction thus we have more cfm, now days to mix the fuel and air heads with swirl combustion chambers are used. //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Marchil@IBM.NET // Alain Marchildon // 1271 Bernard West // Outremont, Quebec Canada // H2V 1V8 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 22:03:07 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA04236; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:57:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA04231; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:57:33 -0500 From: marchil@ibm.net Received: (from uucp@localhost) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA12596 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:57:31 GMT Received: from slip129-37-164-79.pq.ca.ibm.net(129.37.164.79) by smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id sma4SIDmb; Sat Jan 20 21:57:15 1996 Received: by localhost (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.9)/1.0um) id AA0016; Sat, 20 Jan 96 16:56:20 -0800 Message-Id: <9601210056.AA0016@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 96 16:18:05 To: diy_efi X-Mailer: Ultimedia Mail/2 Lite, IBM T. J. Watson Research Center Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Id: <11_56_1_822172686> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Content-Description: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:28:28 GMT X-Sender: fcmefi@mail.fishnet.net To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Fred Miranda Subject: Re: Opinions on idea ...... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk >i had wondered about this myself, so when i had my car (1.3L Fiat w/ L-Jet) >on a dyno a while back, i gave it a test. At full-power, with stady readinds >on the dyno screen, i pinned air vane in place and pulled the hose off >the backside. There was no change in any of the readings from the dyno or >the Sun 4-gas analyzer that was hooked up. The obvious conclusion is that >the mixture didn't change, and thus there was no difference in restriction >between having the air vane sensor in the way or not. Not the most scientific >test in the world, but it convinced me. > > -neville Yes but you are running with the vane completly opened, with it at partial opening you will have restriction to account for. Hey K&N are making million's with ther air filters that offer less restriction and smooth out air flow. And many independant dyno tests have been done on there air filters and all show improuvements in HP and air flow. Alain //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Marchil@IBM.NET // Alain Marchildon // 1271 Bernard West // Outremont, Quebec Canada // H2V 1V8 From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jan 20 22:03:45 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA04243; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 21:58:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from knuth.mtsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA04238; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 16:58:06 -0500 Received: by knuth.mtsu.edu (Smail3.1.29.1 #14) id m0tdlH4-000CwVC; Sat, 20 Jan 96 15:56 CST Message-Id: From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky) Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses To: diy_efi Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 15:56:38 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199601192216.RAA10846@magicnet.magicnet.net> from "Peter Wales" at Jan 19, 96 05:16:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 564 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Peter Wales writes: > > >Jonathan R. Lusky writes > > > >My 91 GMC 2500 (TBI 350) had about half a dozen fusible links. > > > In the injector supply? Not soley... the RUN circuit of the igntion had a fusible link, and the injector supply fuse in the fuse box was fed off the RUN circuit. -- Jonathan R. Lusky lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu http://www.hotrod.com (615) 726-8700 ------------------------------------- ------------------------------ 68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350 \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 00:55:49 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA04957; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 00:42:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from qsi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA04952; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 19:42:35 -0500 Received: from qsirmt06.qsi.com by qsi.com (4.1/3.2.012693-Quality Systems Incorporated); id AA16362 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 20 Jan 96 19:43:21 EST Received: by qsirmt06.qsi.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE76F.5435AD60@qsirmt06.qsi.com>; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 19:41:44 -0600 Message-Id: <01BAE76F.5435AD60@qsirmt06.qsi.com> From: Jim Pearl To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Cyberdyne A/F meter Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 19:41:43 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BAE76F.543ED520" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE76F.543ED520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't mean to sound skeptical of your results but if the Cyberdyne = gauge is using a standard sensor it's nearly impossible for it to do the = things you've described. The readout from the "standard" sensor(s) is = NOT linear and they operate more like a light switch than any sort of = A/F sensor (so I've been told many times). Just out of curiosity - did = you ever compare the readouts given by the gauge with a true A/F meter = such as a Horiba? If they compared closely I'd believe it otherwise I'm = more inclined to believe that the Cyberdyne gauge is nothing different = than the Edelbrock one. BTW - ever ask Cyberdyne what happened to their = digital A/F gauge? This was advertised awhile back and I'd seen pictures = of it. I called Cyberdyne and talked to an engineer about it - he told = me they never could get an ACCURATE reading from it, it used the same = sensor as your $30 model. Sorry... Bottom line - O2 sensors the manufacturers use in cars are meant really = only to give the computer an indication when it's either below, above, = or right on stoichmetric (sp?). Since the computer is either attempting = to hit 14.7:1 or ignoring the sensor the manufacturers saved a few = pennies and used a sensor that's not very sensitive to other ratios. If = you search the net (DIY page?) you'll find a very detailed account on O2 = sensors that explains much of this and even an article where someone = disassembled the Edelbrock unit and had few nice things to say about = it's design. Perhaps the Honda O2 will hold promise down the road? ---------- >From: SRavet@bangate.compaq.com[SMTP:SRavet@bangate.compaq.com] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 1996 7:04 PM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Cyberdyne A/F meter This was posted to the monte carlo list. Can anyone comment on the=20 accuracy of the Cyberdyne A/F meter? This thing apparently costs about=20 $30... ------------------- Steve- I too am amazes at my next statement, but the Cyberdyne *can* = tell the aproximate a/f ratio with their 10 segment meter!! With the meter = came a sheet that has the meaning of eack segment of the gauge. It gives the a/f mixture for gas, propane & alcohol! The most rich is 12:1 and the = most lean was (is) 17:1. I could even see the O2 sensor heating up when I did a cold start. The lites would lite up one by one till I had about 12:1 a/f mixture and in a few more minutes, the engine would go into closed loop and the gauge would start bouncing up and down to achieve the = stoich mixture. I'm telling you, this little baby worked real good. At wot, w/o the larger fuel pump, I would drop the lites (lean out) at about 16 lbs of boost and 6500 rpm, with the larger pump, I could hold 20 psi till = 7500 rpm. This gauge saved my ass a few times. Frank ------------------- Steve Ravet sravet@bangate.compaq.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE76F.543ED520 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiwBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABABgAAABSRTogQ3liZXJkeW5lIEEvRiBtZXRlcgCpBwEFgAMADgAAAMwHAQAUABMAKQArAAYA VQEBIIADAA4AAADMBwEAFAATACEALQAGAE8BAQmAAQAhAAAAQTREMDZFODI2MDUzQ0YxMTk1RjE0 NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAzgYBA5AGAPQJAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAA AABAADkAoNoPnqHnugEeAHAAAQAAABgAAABSRTogQ3liZXJkeW5lIEEvRiBtZXRlcgACAXEAAQAA ABYAAAABuuehng+CbtClU2ARz5XxREVTVAAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAA DAAAAEpWUEBRU0kuQ09NAAMABhDd7LFpAwAHEPMIAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJRE9OVE1FQU5UT1NP VU5EU0tFUFRJQ0FMT0ZZT1VSUkVTVUxUU0JVVElGVEhFQ1lCRVJEWU5FR0FVR0VJU1VTSU5HQVNU QU5EQVJEU0VOU09SSVRTTkVBUkxZSU1QT1NTSUJMAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAgwgAAH8IAABhDgAATFpG dVJk0jT/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKD M7cC5AcTAoM0EswUxX0KgIsIzwnZOxefMjU1AoAHCoENsQtgbmcxMDMvFFALChViDAFjAEAgSXQg ZAIgJwVAB4ADkXRIbyBzCGBuZB1waxJlBTBpYwdAIG9mFCB5CGEgF6BzdWxydAQgYnUFQAaQHUBo IGUgQ3liBJBkecJuIBBnYXVnIBAEAMwgdQCQGqAgYR1wAZA/HbALER1wCfAdgAXAaXROJwQgIKAK wGx5H7Bt9HBvBBBpAmAgEAIQIsJ/HUIcoB/jH/AhgQQgHrEnHnYgEA2wBPIgUGQuIPZUIAEXoGEc oB+RA1If44oiIeYiImUocykhIuBOT1QgbAuAI0EhsKcdsR/xI4BvcASQYRPQfxzwBbAgECoAHfAh sSoAZ/ZoBUAD4XQRcB/hA5EAcI8jgCKhBUAegUEvRiJmeylQHWBJJgIgUAnwHUFsXx3AA4EjgB4g B4EpJtBK7yFgLdEfkR6BYwhxI9Ai4DUjgC0ckGkdwB6xIGX/JhAFwAWgI7AKwCVCJxcEIOxnaSYQ A6BiMDEgASDU5yyxLPAhwHRyClAuEweAbxPQBcAfICzhYQQgIcBI8wWwJABhPxxwH9MjgDMl/R3A YxcwEbAjcS8QHcAgUNcqADLRJIJvH/FyA/EgEP8vECfgK4MLgDkwKhEqkR1g3zn2LREkoSAPIRNu OqEhgn8yUA3QBJAJ8D1CHSI9cUXJDbBsYgNgY2secCCg8SbQQlRXMiEy0zdQQQDtPah3PSIRgHAr EDwlPWH+aQXAMlA0cAGQFKEuMSDT1zgAJvAhMXc3UmQy4R4g+xGwHcBhQwADEC9BANBBAK8qcjmy EbAvgXAeMHQIcP8HkR6BIuAm0ByAHkEkIB3A/z2oKnMHQB3wPEMDkQnwNHD/IKBB8gbgH5IFQDIw JTIvw/8zgyOAIKAy5B8wHcAhAAVAAQORQUNDVVJBVN5FJyMhgiezIuAsJIIhYPM8Mj1xc2FNcSJ1 N1Ees7gkMzArcUCRJtBTBbC4cnkuU8AKhQqFQjqg7x1QJ+AqAjIhTxHgInQEIPM9YgOBdWYA0Eii VjFQ8f87wUmBVjEzYh0CBUAnMUmw/SrhbiNxHVE0cj1TMyIfkP9B8gOgC4AyUB5AHiACIELxny+B IuNEMDqyOeJvd1Cg/0xBJhBQoAWxBRAsYluhE8Babx4waDahBRBjLsFw+j8woVM70VoNITFcdStA PxPRHhEhkR1RJXAFQDE02C43OhxgIrJnPtAFEP9iElFSIoRWb1FxJhBGwSRA/wfRQ4EDAAeRKnJQ 8yHBZDb3K0AjAjqgIDLhLYEigSLg31njHWA6ox7wW3JzSVEekz8iYQrALOM9gCCgBUAoRPRJWUhg YUVhKXAl0kmw/yRAWyEhsWjDDbABkEcRRsE+Y05RP8FboVW7PTFlePsLUwQgbTcSHoElYWbUMtH/ LUJYMR4hJCFb0SuhHYAHgP9BITJBUYAEEBPgJBFRJECI/x2gJJEqchGAHcBmMgMAX/P7JYMdUmEj gExGIwEmQWNR/SbQUASQQ1FWRDegIhFVovsD8G0haC/CE1ADcDsCHKDud0AkA2AnUD9T/Ar0KgBI MTgwAtFpLWKwNM8N8AzQfiMLWTE2CqADYP8T0EiQMiCARwqHfvsMMH/GekYDYTqBTn/GDIIGAFK5 ZcF0QDfgGqArQS4zIwJxheJbU01UUDr7hQ+GFl2A74H9BmACMIMvV4Q7JvAIcHMiIHlQoEofVrEK wCOAfaBQoDE5OaQ2IGLgMDR44E2InzmB/VRvit+EOzJQeV+ZDcBpQE5SA3BiLkux5C5vJXBvLSHh hcEJgMZ1jt+JrnViaoABkP+fhDs9qDZnfE99UzM2fsf/FFEL8pBXRbYjwRPQQ8Yrcf8CMFpBI1Ed YCoAE8Am0D2Q/y00c5IzIQeAbvQ9YgqFbqH/CHAA0CrhH942ZzgARZQ+9P9DYTNhAjAjcQWgE8A3 YUxTvwqFUsFTz4BIgF4KhVMT0H8mEDIwHIAdUEthJ+BRkGHuembCHOFN0ngsgZRyoPKXUKAfgj1s Kh5AbiodQL05cGwKhT1iQ2ADYHgHcPkrQmEvHpBqQzWURBQawA0iYWeg8zajISEgV/+xBTaVHkAH gKG2HXA9cE7B/z0TEYBWRR0RIYIegR0QQPH/sdaitSDTSVEFQDRyVkOhtr+wYXsQrFBIsSRDINBz UKDXeuEKsCChJiGwbAWgepF/srAm8gRgMPFfESzwITEx/jJi8Sp1vAMKhSQgA5FF8vYoBAApcDFi 4UlTTmNx8z9IIT1TVbdM4VtxIZF1cP9bxByBMmC0BxcRHcEBkAAg/ybUKgAT0EXRTmPEcsICc5L/ NNFzkh4gbSEcgHYSTES84v+470qEV8FmFCuDexBWwMSR71CgPWJLtMTFZx1gC4AdUf85M8LWFzAr AL0nNUVOY8PD+x9wHZFjwdUqcntkS2ERcP88xVFhXpMKhbmVSVE7Ua6y/yGCHrHKciExxHGloEcy NNF9xNBySxJY4suRBHAm0EHHBUDE0FCRdy9vrvkLYPZyIQAFwGYKUAMgWpAjsHdQoByAxNRkurHW 1MSDKH++YydxKXA9MccVjkBAsHOfCoUegQbgvCIqcjY1fcD5HvBwbdYhsubXJdfmTlTfepMB0Ehg AJDGVDfcoQqF/9zhJtIhMSDUZbSsAXQBZgXvMFNT7YLgAHBrp3+oj6mf9z2AhwMKhXMrMIcvhkNU Zv/UYiXSyLJOoQMAIWBbxjMS97iCzAGrAGvB1XNSMYBHAf/fsFGANxBBQFPemu+b/3/VCwqFFsEA 8wAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAwAAAEAABzCAl/qAoOe6AUAACDCAl/qAoOe6AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJF OiAAAAAAGHM= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE76F.543ED520-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 01:29:25 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA05041; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 01:17:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from xmission.xmission.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA05036; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 20:17:51 -0500 Received: from xmission.xmission.com (slc70.xmission.com [204.228.136.70]) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA23273 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:17:48 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199601210117.SAA23273@xmission.xmission.com> X-Sender: lndshrk@xmission.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 18:17:54 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Land Shark Subject: Re: Digital Distributorless Ignition System Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 14:05 1/20/96 -0500, you wrote: >>Please send me any comments and questions. I'm working on the 3-axis >>accelerometer toy now. Let me know if you're interested. It will have a >>128x128 graphic LCD in a handheld device. The accelerometers are attached to >>an unsprung (hopefully close to the roll center) point on the car and a cable >>will plug into the unit. Should record about a half-hour of data - great for >>autocrossing. Tim .. YES YES YES ... I'm interested .. will I be able to use this setup as a sort of "pocket dyno" for engine tuning ... I'm more concerned with linear acceleration than the "friction circle" Jim Conforti From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 06:26:54 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA05608; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 06:20:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from caritas.efn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA05603; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 01:20:00 -0500 Received: from dynip112.efn.org (dynip112.efn.org [204.214.97.112]) by caritas.efn.org (8.7.3/8.7.2) with SMTP id WAA12307 for ; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 22:18:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 22:18:24 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601210618.WAA12307@caritas.efn.org> X-Sender: cmorgan@mailhost.efn.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Charles Morgan Subject: Engine Reversal and EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I want to put a stock fuel-injected Chevy 4.3L engine into a Corvair. I have three questions that I hope someone in this group might be able to answer. (1) The crankshaft rotation (and hence firing order) must be reversed (thought the camshaft and distributor rotation is preserved). Would this preclude using the stock fuel injection system (either TBI or CMFI)? If so, are there workarounds? (2) The Corvair speedometer is driven by a cable turned by a front wheel. Can this, through appropriate gearing, be used for a vehicle speed sensor? (3) 1993 and later computers also interface with the transmission. Since I'm going to use the Corvair transmission, how should I terminate the unused terminals (i.e., leave open, ground, ground through resistance)? Thanks, Charlie Morgan From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 13:01:37 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA06241; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:57:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.bogo.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA06236; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 07:57:18 -0500 Received: from sian.bogo.co.uk (sian.bogo.co.uk [193.112.165.22]) by mail.bogo.co.uk (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA10590 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:57:07 GMT Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:57:07 GMT Message-Id: <199601211257.MAA10590@mail.bogo.co.uk> X-Sender: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk (RAGHBIR SIAN) Subject: Re: Digital Distributorless Ignition System Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >The Programmable, Digital Distributorless Ignition System is finished! Thank >God. Anyhow, all of you had expressed interest in the system sometime in the >past so I wanted to update you. > >The best way to get the articles is via my Web page at >http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe. In the second article, I'm missing the two >equations and the table, but I hope to have them in by the time you get this >message. Also, more legible versions of the schematics will be made available >on my FTP site (same address, userid: anonymous). The DOS version of the PC >software will be place on the FTP site also. > >Please send me any comments and questions. I'm working on the 3-axis >accelerometer toy now. Let me know if you're interested. It will have a >128x128 graphic LCD in a handheld device. The accelerometers are attached to >an unsprung (hopefully close to the roll center) point on the car and a cable >will plug into the unit. Should record about a half-hour of data - great for >autocrossing. > >-tim drury > Tim .. YES YES YES ... I'm interested .. will I be able to use this setup as > a sort of "pocket dyno" for engine tuning ... I'm more concerned with linear > acceleration than the "friction circle" > > Jim Conforti > Tim.. I am interested too in the accelerometer but for the 'friction circle'. Keep me posted. Regarding the place where the sensor would go Tim you wrote: >>The accelerometers are attached to>an unsprung (hopefully close to the roll >>center) So what would you do when the roll centre of the vehicle concerned changes in relation to suspension movement.... Okay just kidding. Or may be place two of the units one at the front and one at the rear. I remember this was one of the places the formula one boys placed the sensors for high bandwidth active ride control. By the way what has happened to the article on your DDIS and your Web site. May be a slight technical glitch ya... Let me know when this site is fully operational. Regards R.S.Sian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Raghbir Sian Engine Control and Combustion Analyst "As Always A ***CONTROL*** Freak" A committee is a group of the unwilling, chosen from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.... Anonymous Life is just one damned thing after another... Joseph Heller Time spent on any item of the agenda will be in inverse proportion to the sum involved. E-mail: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 17:00:25 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA06691; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:46:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA06686; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 11:46:02 -0500 Received: from ptp16.tecinfo.com (ptp16.tecinfo.com [206.30.166.250]) by ns.tecinfo.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02096 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:40:56 -0600 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:40:56 -0600 Message-Id: <199601211640.KAA02096@ns.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: george dailey Subject: Re: Digital Distributorless Ignition System Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 12:57 PM 1/21/96 GMT, you wrote: >> >>The Programmable, Digital Distributorless Ignition System is finished! Hey tim drury, I'm new to the group (and the net) but have considerable experience in retrofitting OEM EFI systems into ancient vehicles. Please tell me that you have a DDIS for small block chevys that's compatable with the exiesting CCC EST system. thanks GMD@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 17:50:04 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA06835; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:45:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from svcs1.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA06830; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:44:59 -0500 Received: from ns.digex.net (dcc11784.slip.digex.net [205.197.200.191]) by svcs1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14369 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:44:56 -0500 Message-ID: <31027B8F.1BA@access.digex.net> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:44:47 -0500 From: Bill Lewis X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Engine Reversal and EFI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Engines normally have the piston pin bores slightly offset toward the thrust side to reduce friction and piston slap. Running the engine the other direction will throw this all out of whack. Some engines also have oiling systems with the direction of rotation taken into account. For example, something spinning a certain direction slings oil off itself and onto something else to be lubricated. If I'm not mistaken, the 4.3 litre Chevy is a small block V8 chopped down. Often twin engine installations in boats run the engines in opposite directions, so you might look into SBC marine setups to see if a reverse direction engine is produced, and what they've done to support it. /Bill From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 18:00:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA06864; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:55:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from vixa.voyager.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA06859; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:55:38 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (ip-231.dial.voyager.net [198.109.136.231]) by vixa.voyager.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA16127 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:55:23 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 12:55:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199601211755.MAA16127@vixa.voyager.net> X-Sender: ws6transam@vixa.voyager.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: ws6transam@voyager.net (Daniel R Burk) Subject: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Does anyone have the hexadecimal engine codes for the GM ALDL computers as used in '82 through '92? I have an '84 that I want to begin communicating with, but I do not know which addresses I need to poll to receive the engine diagnostics data. So far I have struck out in finding them via the random method. Also, the ALDL interface seems to have the pins in the wrong locations than the "official" designation. Here's what I mean: OFFICIAL: for the 12 pin ALDL port. Pin Function My Connector has these pins A Ground Pin A B ALDL Diagnostics B C C D D E 160 Baud data line F F G H 8192 Baud data line J K L M The connector pinout is arranged in this fashion: F E D C B A G H J K L M The communications protocol seems to be to pull the diagnostics line high, and send the hex command "F4" down the data line. (Your choice of baud rate.) You then release the diagnostics line and wait for your data. I base this information on old documents I found at work involving automotive data acquisition. Any help would be appreciated. --- Dan. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 18:20:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA07036; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:16:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu id NAA07031; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:16:30 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:16:30 -0500 From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Message-Id: <199601211816.NAA07031@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Received: from freenet.msp.mn.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (94081 6.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06359; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 09:22:22 -0500 Received: from [160.94.23.46] (dialup-14-c-46.gw.umn.edu [160.94.23.46]) by fre enet.msp.mn.us (8.7.3/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA08370 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:21:58 GMT Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 14:21:58 GMT Message-Id: <199601211421.OAA08370@freenet.msp.mn.us> From: "Jim Staff" Reply-To: "Jim Staff" To: diy_efi Subject: Help Please!!! Hello. I'm working on a system for super mileage vehicle competition, and I need to build an injection system. And I was wondering if I could get help from the people here at DIY_EFI. I'm an electronics guy and have no clue how this automotive specifics stuff works. So I'll give you a rundown on what I have to work with and if anyone could help me you could reply to DIY_EFI server or to m e personally at Staffj@freenet.msp.mn.us. Basics =============================================================================== = Engine : Briggs & stratton 3HP, 4 cycle single cylinder (Wow huh?) Intake : Carb. Ingition : Briggs & Stratton's Factory Points Ignition. Notes : Exactly the same engine you'll find in 90% of the lawn mowers in the world. It runs like a pig and is a massive gas hog. The compression ration as measures was Å8:1 and I know it runs really rich. Modification : I have a second PTO shaft that is infact the cam shaft. It provides a single RPM/Power cycle. That way I don't have to arbitrate the exhaust and power strokes. Advanced =============================================================================== = Modification 1--Tachometer. The Tachometer I'm going to use is as good as finished. I thought it was best to use a Hall Effect sensor as a pickup on the cam shaft. This is then put through a devide by 10 and a devide by 5 then it is inverted and fed as an interupt into my computer system. Modification 2--Electronic Ignition.(Or at least better ignition) Since I have to have a car battery on theis thing anyway, I want to replace the Briggs standard points ignition system. I'll replace it with a pickup coil system and a switching modual from an GM car and a ignition coil from a Ford. I think I'm trigger it with a hall sensor on the cam shaft just before the piston reaches TDC, I'll make the sensor movable so that you can adjust the spark advancement by hand. I thought alternatively I could have that sensor act as a sentinal and make the computer time it. But since I'm using a 286 PC I can only get hundreths of a second from the RTC. I was wondering if this is an OK amount of slack? Well anyway anything is a good replacement for the points system. Modification 3--EFI This is were I get completly lost. I know that injectors take Å+5V at a good chunk of amps. They run on a square wave duty cycle. I don't know how I could create this duty wave from my digital output. Since a bus cycle is a specific amount of time I can't hold the bus. And I have no clue how a real ECU does it. I could use a lot of help here. If there is any specific or general stuff you know I'd like to hear it. I do believe that on the market somewhere there has t o be an IC that turns an 8 bit binary number into a pulse width for the injector. Modification 4--Feedback for the EFI I need help in this area too. I know that an O2 sensor provides a voltage based on the amount of air present in the exhaust. I'm going to sample this wit h an analog to digital converter. Most of them are +1.2 V to +.1 V so my sources tell me. I haven't pinned down a MAF sensor yet but I believe that they are als o voltage analog signals, so I can do the same thing with this. If it's not could you please tell me what it really is and how to change it into some kind of voltage. The last thing I want to have is a temp sensor that way I can calculat e the true mass of the air going into the engine. Then I can solve the equation for x (amount of gas needed) and inject it. Mod 5--LCD display I want to use a standard 16x2 LCD line display and have it track RPM and MPG From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 18:46:40 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id SAA07288; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:42:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id NAA07283; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:42:55 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:42:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199601211842.NAA07283@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> From: "Jim Staff" Subject: Help Please!!! Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hello. I'm working on a system for super mileage vehicle competition, and I need to build an injection system. And I was wondering if I could get help from the people here at DIY_EFI. I'm an electronics guy and have no clue how this automotive specifics stuff works. So I'll give you a rundown on what I have to work with and if anyone could help me you could reply to DIY_EFI server or to m e personally at Staffj@freenet.msp.mn.us. Basics =============================================================================== = Engine : Briggs & stratton 3HP, 4 cycle single cylinder (Wow huh?) Intake : Carb. Ingition : Briggs & Stratton's Factory Points Ignition. Notes : Exactly the same engine you'll find in 90% of the lawn mowers in the world. It runs like a pig and is a massive gas hog. The compression ration as measures was Å8:1 and I know it runs really rich. Modification : I have a second PTO shaft that is infact the cam shaft. It provides a single RPM/Power cycle. That way I don't have to arbitrate the exhaust and power strokes. Advanced =============================================================================== = Modification 1--Tachometer. The Tachometer I'm going to use is as good as finished. I thought it was best to use a Hall Effect sensor as a pickup on the cam shaft. This is then put through a devide by 10 and a devide by 5 then it is inverted and fed as an interupt into my computer system. Modification 2--Electronic Ignition.(Or at least better ignition) Since I have to have a car battery on theis thing anyway, I want to replace the Briggs standard points ignition system. I'll replace it with a pickup coil system and a switching modual from an GM car and a ignition coil from a Ford. I think I'm trigger it with a hall sensor on the cam shaft just before the piston reaches TDC, I'll make the sensor movable so that you can adjust the spark advancement by hand. I thought alternatively I could have that sensor act as a sentinal and make the computer time it. But since I'm using a 286 PC I can only get hundreths of a second from the RTC. I was wondering if this is an OK amount of slack? Well anyway anything is a good replacement for the points system. Modification 3--EFI This is were I get completly lost. I know that injectors take Å+5V at a good chunk of amps. They run on a square wave duty cycle. I don't know how I could create this duty wave from my digital output. Since a bus cycle is a specific amount of time I can't hold the bus. And I have no clue how a real ECU does it. I could use a lot of help here. If there is any specific or general stuff you know I'd like to hear it. I do believe that on the market somewhere there has t o be an IC that turns an 8 bit binary number into a pulse width for the injector. Modification 4--Feedback for the EFI I need help in this area too. I know that an O2 sensor provides a voltage based on the amount of air present in the exhaust. I'm going to sample this wit h an analog to digital converter. Most of them are +1.2 V to +.1 V so my sources tell me. I haven't pinned down a MAF sensor yet but I believe that they are als o voltage analog signals, so I can do the same thing with this. If it's not could you please tell me what it really is and how to change it into some kind of voltage. The last thing I want to have is a temp sensor that way I can calculat e the true mass of the air going into the engine. Then I can solve the equation for x (amount of gas needed) and inject it. Mod 5--LCD display I want to use a standard 16x2 LCD line display and have it track RPM and MPG From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 20:33:26 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA07664; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:28:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA07659; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 15:28:18 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id NAA05779 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:20:52 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Sun, 21 Jan 96 13:27 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Sun, 21 Jan 96 13:29:52 EDT Message-Id: <9600212029.AA17553@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses To: diy_efi Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 13:29:49 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: <199601182249.AA02727@lucy.swin.edu.au>; from "Andrew Dennison" at Jan 19, 96 9:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > Ah! but these injectors aren't connected directly accross 12V. > Manufacturers either use a current limiting resistor or peak and hold > drivers. > Yeah, I wasn't referring to what the driver may do to alter the current drive to the injector. That's a whole separate issue. I was assuming worst case where the driver is a dead short, having self destructed for whatever reason, thus applying battery directly to the injector. This is, after all, exactly what the fuse is for in the first place, to protect the wiring harness and, if you're lucky, the injector itself from some catastrophic failure elsewhere in the system. regards, dn -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 @ + < __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jan 21 20:33:30 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA07670; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:28:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.debug.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA07665; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 15:28:42 -0500 Received: from debug.UUCP (debug@localhost) by linux.debug.ab.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with UUCP id NAA05762 for coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu!diy_efi; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 13:10:55 -0700 Received: by debug.cuc.ab.ca (/\=-/\ Smail3.1.16.1 #16.19) id ; Sun, 21 Jan 96 13:17 MST Received: by dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca (qqmail/QNX) ; Sun, 21 Jan 96 13:16:01 EDT Message-Id: <9600212016.AA17552@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca> Subject: Re: Injectors and fuses To: diy_efi Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 13:15:59 MDT From: dn In-Reply-To: <199601181515.KAA01740@magicnet.magicnet.net>; from "Peter Wales" at Jan 18, 96 10:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > No auto manufacturer is going to bury a fusible link in the wiring anywhere > which will totally disable the car and cannot be replaced! > I totally disagree with your above statement, 'cause I have had to replace, on several occasions, fusible links (alternator output and main power feed to the fuse panel come to mind) which are completely buried deep in the wiring harness in some inaccesible location, and without which the car would not run at all. > No fuses in the injector feeds. CPU maybe, but not injectors. I have yet to see any automobile which doesn't have fuses in ALL main power feeds throughout the electrical system. As was pointed out by another reply to this thread, the fuses are there to protect the vehicle's wiring, not whatever is connected to that wiring. Fusible links are usually used for high current feeds (say, alternator output) where it is impractical (read too expensive) to put in an 80A fuse. Note that in my original message I said "MAY BE used". In order to keep wiring complexity down, and thus the number of fuses required, auto manufacturers may group several systems together on the same power feed. Thus any given fuse in the panel may be labelled, say, "AUX", but may feed injectors, fuel pump, and cigarrette lighter from this circuit. It may not be OBVIOUS that the injector drivers are fused, but they are. regards, dn -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darrell A. Norquay Internet: dn@dlogtech.cuc.ab.ca Datalog Technology Inc. Bang: calgary!debug!dlogtech!darrell Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: +1 (403) 243-2220 Fax: +1 (403) 243-2872 @ + < __/ "Ain't no substitute for clock speed or compression ratio" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 01:02:30 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA08177; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 00:55:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from guardian.aesprodata.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA08172; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 19:55:47 -0500 From: dzorde@aesprodata.com.au Received: by guardian.aesprodata.com.au with UUCP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA01410; Mon, 22 Jan 96 08:55:30 +0800 Received: from cc:Mail by afcperth.aesprodata.com.au id AA822329821 Mon, 22 Jan 96 08:57:01 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 08:57:01 Message-Id: <9600228223.AA822329821@afcperth.aesprodata.com.au> To: diy_efi Subject: Re[2]: Engine Reversal and EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu We run a Fiat 850 sport with a 127 engine, this also runs the wrong way. We could get away with just turning the pistons around on the rods and get the cam ground for the other way. This will now run at 9000 rpm all day. Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Engine Reversal and EFI Author: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu at INTERNET Date: 22/1/96 8:35 AM Engines normally have the piston pin bores slightly offset toward the thrust side to reduce friction and piston slap. Running the engine the other direction will throw this all out of whack. Some engines also have oiling systems with the direction of rotation taken into account. For example, something spinning a certain direction slings oil off itself and onto something else to be lubricated. If I'm not mistaken, the 4.3 litre Chevy is a small block V8 chopped down. Often twin engine installations in boats run the engines in opposite directions, so you might look into SBC marine setups to see if a reverse direction engine is produced, and what they've done to support it. /Bill From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 01:45:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA08283; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:40:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA08276; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:40:56 -0500 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA13702 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:40:54 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:40:54 -0500 Message-ID: <960121204030_123300850@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Engine codes for '84 T/A Date: 96-01-21 13:31:47 EST From: ws6transam@voyager.net (Daniel R Burk) > Does anyone have the hexadecimal engine codes for the GM ALDL computers > as used in '82 through '92? I have an '84 that I want to begin > communicating with, but I do not know which addresses I need to poll to > receive the engine diagnostics data. So far I have struck out in > finding them via the random method. Also, the ALDL interface seems to > have the pins in the wrong locations than the "official" designation. You have a slow ALDL box. It is 160 baud, and it only sends data, it does not receive. Sometimes GM did not have a separate ALDL data pin, and the data comes out on the CEL line. > Here's what I mean: OFFICIAL: for the 12 pin ALDL port. [deleted] > The connector pinout is arranged in this fashion: > F E D C B A > G H J K L M > The communications protocol seems to be to pull the diagnostics line > high, and send the hex command "F4" down the data line. (Your choice > of baud rate.) You then release the diagnostics line and wait for your > data. I base this information on old documents I found at work > involving automotive data acquisition. > Any help would be appreciated. Toss what you have been reading? That is incorrect as stated. It is part of the 8192 baud protocol to send something similar, but that has no application in your ECM. There is no easy way to reverse engineer this. One way is to get the code out of the ECM's ROM and disassemble it, and figure out what it is sending. Another is to learn all you can about what it is sending (get a factory manual) and use another scan tool and try to figure out what is what from the outside. Good luck, Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 04:40:30 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA08955; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 04:34:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from lucy.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA08950; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 23:34:18 -0500 Received: from [] ([136.186.89.110]) by lucy.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA08601; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:34:12 +1100 Message-Id: <199601220434.AA08601@lucy.swin.edu.au> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:34:28 EST+10 Subject: SHAMELESS EFI332 PROMOTION - was Re: ECUs Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On 19 Jan 96 at 12:33, Gavin Walker wrote: > My soldering skills are best not talked about in polite circles so > an ideal development platform would be one like. > > - ECU running a multitasking operating system > - Services available to access input and manipulate outputs > (like timing, etc). - Each service would have a local butter to > store/read data cyclicly so the optimization can be done > externally. - Persistent code/data storage such as FRAM chips. - > Laptop interface > > > So you'd have some, say Java, firmware on the FRAM and more bulky > code on the PC. Adding new drivers would create new Java objects to > manipulate them. > > Does anything close to this exist or is it all pipe dreams? > The EFI332 project is a step towards what your dreaming about - it uses a 32 bit processor and will use RTEMS - a real time multi tasking OS. The real time bits are controlled by a fancy timer system and there is FLASH memory and battery backed RAM, all you'd need to do is write the java firmware! Check out the EFI332 web page: http://www.cim.swin.edu.au/~aden/web-docs/efi332/332_index.html Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate IRIS - Industrial Research Institute - Swinburne University 545 Burwood Rd. Hawthorn Victoria 3122 Australia Phone: +61 3 9214 5033 Fax: +61 3 9214 5050 From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 05:53:39 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA09399; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 05:46:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA09394; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 00:46:03 -0500 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id QAA23331 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:46:02 +1100 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199601220546.QAA23331@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: Re: O2 Sensor type? To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:46:01 +1100 (EST) In-Reply-To: from "Mark Boxsell" at Jan 18, 96 11:16:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2177 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi Mark, since this discussion is getting a little off the diy-efi track, I'm replying personally. > They used to be that price !!!! Perhaps there has been an upgrade?? The circuit is quite complicated. > I used the UEGO it on racing engines mainly. Tell me more.. > This engine of yours sounds interesting. Whats your BMEP and hows your NOX? The engine uses a novel Hydrogen Assited Jet Ignition (HAJI) ignition syetem which gives stable ignition out to extremely lean operating conditions. The HAJI injector fits into the spark plug hole and contains a direct injection hydrogen injector, a very small spark plug and a small prechamber. The hydrogen is only for ignition and only provides a tiny fraction of the input energy. The combustion occurs over a very short period, an order of magnitude less than conventional ignition. It may have applications in high speed racing engines (>20000 rpm). Back to your questions.. The BMEP is what you would expect at those operating conditions as apart from stable ignition, the system doesn't increase that energy output. At lambda 2, the NOx is around ambient and certainly at the lower limits of our ~$30000 NOx measuring apparatus. The system is currently being tested on a single cylinder optical CFR which has a see through piston crown for combustion analysis. We have also tested it on the same Lancia 16V 2 litre which I use for my control work. There are many more details on the HAJI www site. I don't know the address exactly, but you can find it by doing a net search on HAJI or even through the University of Melbourne, Mech Eng and then the Transport Energy Group. Robert > MRB Design PS what do MRB Deisgn do?? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 06:22:32 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA09522; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 06:17:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA09515; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:17:02 -0500 Received: (from dingli@localhost) by mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (8.6.11+a+b/8.6.11) id RAA24614 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 17:17:01 +1100 From: robert dingli Message-Id: <199601220617.RAA24614@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU> Subject: previous mis-post To: DIY_EFI (DIY_EFI ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 17:17:00 +1100 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 664 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Sorry about the previous post, I didn't intend to clutter the whole list with such a specific discussion. Of course, if anyone else is interested, please feel free to let me know. Robert Dingli -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Dingli r.dingli@ee.mu.oz.au Power and Control Systems Thermodynamics Research Lab Electrical Engineering Mechanical Engineering (+613) 9344 7966 (+613) 9344 6728 University of Melbourne, Parkville, 3052, Victoria, AUSTRALIA ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 06:35:22 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA09560; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 06:28:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA09555; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:28:20 -0500 From: ALIPPER@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA01705; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:28:19 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:28:19 -0500 Message-ID: <960122012819_403128205@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: staffj@freenet.msp.mn.us, DIY_EFI Subject: Re: PC Based EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Jim, I'm glad to see your interest in the PC-based EFI. You ask: > First. I looked at the way you decode the address >structure on the ISA bus, and how does that stop other >devices from addressing the injector. Since you only use >the first 5 address lines.... The addressing is making use of the CPU's I/O port addressing mode, NOT memory addressing. Port addressing only uses A0-A9. My design decodes A5-A9 as the address block in which the EFI will operate, then within that, it only uses A0-A4 for the locations it requires. (note the inclusion of the IOR and IOW signals in order to enable any of the devices). > Second. The circuit you use to drive the injector. Your >not drive the injector all by yourself are you? It looks >to me as though you're giving it to the cars ignition >system.. Could you clarify this. The injector may be operated in several modes (see the doc files). Ordinarily, it fires the injector(s) once every spark (as do virtually all TBI systems). In certain cicumstances (e.g. starting and rapid accelleration) this is not adequate. During these times, it may be switched to async mode where the injector fires off of on of the timer outputs at an adjustable interval. There is no need at all for interrupts in this design, thereby simplifying the implementation. As you can see, it can even be operated from BASIC. Hope this helps. - Al - From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 13:02:50 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA10358; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:50:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from opus.mtu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA10353; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 07:50:29 -0500 Received: from mtu.edu (mtu.edu [141.219.70.1]) by opus.mtu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id HAA01861 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 07:50:27 -0500 Received: from mmserver.mm.mtu.edu (mmserver.mm.mtu.edu [141.219.20.61]) by mtu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id HAA12661 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 07:50:27 -0500 Received: from metlab2.my.mtu.edu (metlab2.my.mtu.edu [141.219.20.82]) by mmserver.mm.mtu.edu (8.6.9/MTU-1.3) with SMTP id HAA20360 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 07:50:18 -0500 From: "Paul E. Campbell" Received: (from pecampbe@localhost) by metlab2.my.mtu.edu (8.6.9/MTU-1.2) id HAA02395 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 07:50:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199601221250.HAA02395@metlab2.my.mtu.edu> Subject: Re: SHAMELESS EFI332 PROMOTION - was Re: ECUs To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 07:50:23 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199601220434.AA08601@lucy.swin.edu.au> from "Andrew Dennison" at Jan 22, 96 03:34:28 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3459 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > On 19 Jan 96 at 12:33, Gavin Walker wrote: > > My soldering skills are best not talked about in polite circles so > > an ideal development platform would be one like. > > > > - ECU running a multitasking operating system This is possible..BUT, You'd want a real time and/or event-driven OS. If you happen to be running a huge number cruncher like the mean value engine model as a flat out nonoptimized system strictly for optimizing the lookup tables on the fly, then I can potentially SEE the possibility of running that during the idle times available when the real time requirements don't pre-empt your model right off the system. > > - Services available to access input and manipulate outputs > > (like timing, etc). - Each service would have a local butter to > > store/read data cyclicly so the optimization can be done > > externally. - Persistent code/data storage such as FRAM chips. - > > Laptop interface Laptop is no problem. Know what RS-232 is? Good, know what a MAX232 is? Costs about $2-$10 for the laptop interface (serial port), depending on just how much you want to spend on your DB-25 or DB-9 for gold plating, better connectors, etc. Now, as far as the "FRAM" goes, ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? Do you realize how expensive that stuff is? It will not kill you to maybe use something dirt cheap like SRAMs with a "power shutdown mode" while the engine is off or even using a nice serial EEPROM for ultra-low power. > > So you'd have some, say Java, firmware on the FRAM and more bulky > > code on the PC. Adding new drivers would create new Java objects to > > manipulate them. What is this fascination with Java? Native code runs way faster and speed is the key any day with engine controllers..I can argue the merits of a 32 bit processor running every timing loop vs. using a cheap 8 bitter using PLL's to handle the faster timing requirements and offsetting the processor load, but running Java? I really fail to see the point of Java even for it's intended purpose..there are tons of other better already existing languages for the purpose Java is used for (Postscript Level 2, TCL/TK come to mind) as well as if you are actually going to stick a byte coded interpreter in the box just to make your life harder (Forth has much better support in the microcontroller world). > The EFI332 project is a step towards what your dreaming about - it > uses a 32 bit processor and will use RTEMS - a real time multi > tasking OS. The real time bits are controlled by a fancy timer system > and there is FLASH memory and battery backed RAM, all you'd need to > do is write the java firmware! I'll bite this time. Why use flash memory over a serial EEPROM? I can only think of three reasons: 1. You've got a PCMCIA slot for the world's easiest reprogramming. 2. Faster read/write times (overkill if it already uses battery backed RAM). 3. Denser storage. I used a serial EEPROM in my last project (a 6 month data logger)... I needed power failure protected memory. It has a whopping 8 pins on it, and you don't need 4 of them (address select lines..tied to power or ground). The serial stream format is kind of awkward but trivial to use once you get working subroutines written. They cost about $5 for a 4K chip, which equates to about 3 months for my data logger purposes. That's also about the size of the storage requirements I've seen quoted on the EFI list for their engine lookup tables. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 13:36:59 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA10614; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:26:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA10609; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 08:26:28 -0500 From: tdrury@SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu Received: by SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.14/1.2) id AA0099; Mon, 22 Jan 96 08:26:47 -0500 Message-Id: <9601221326.AA0099@SPBTED.gtri.gatech.edu> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 96 08:23:52 EST To: DIY_EFI Subject: DDIS Web/FTP site Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >The web site and ftp address dont seem to work, are they correct? > >Sandy Web: http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe FTP: spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (login: anonymous) I was hoping people would visit my machine and I got my wish! There has been so much volume that the HTTP and FTP daemon have been dying. I'm working on the problem so please be patient. Keep trying! BTW, the equations are now in the second article and all the links are working. Please let me now if you have problems. -tim From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 15:34:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA11438; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:21:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devserve.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA11429; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:21:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199601221521.KAA11429@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devserve.cebaf.gov (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA109884129; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:22:09 -0500 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: Re: Engine Reversal and EFI To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:22:09 EST In-Reply-To: <199601210618.WAA12307@caritas.efn.org>; from "Charles Morgan" at Jan 20, 96 10:18 pm X-Hpvue$Revision: 1.8 $ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Message/rfc822 X-Vue-Mime-Level: 4 X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 109.14] Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ~ (1) The crankshaft rotation (and hence firing order) must be reversed ~ (thought the camshaft and distributor rotation is preserved). Would this ~ preclude using the stock fuel injection system (either TBI or CMFI)? If so, ~ are there workarounds? I would think that all you have to do is follow the new firing order (ignition, etc). If the EFI uses any type of crank sensor wheel which also synchronizes the system, it will have to be flipped. ~ ~ (2) The Corvair speedometer is driven by a cable turned by a front wheel. ~ Can this, through appropriate gearing, be used for a vehicle speed sensor? This should work. If memory recalls, the Chevy setup wants 1000 pulses per mile. ~ ~ (3) 1993 and later computers also interface with the transmission. Since ~ I'm going to use the Corvair transmission, how should I terminate the unused ~ terminals (i.e., leave open, ground, ground through resistance)? ~ If the old transmission was just and overdrive tranny with a lockup converter (e.g. 700R4, etc), the wires only control the converter. So you can leave the wires hanging in this case. Anything else I am not sure of. ~ - Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist - Instrumentation and Controls The Continuous Electron Beam Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23602 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 22:05:39 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA13935; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 21:42:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pacific.mea.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA13930; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:42:24 -0500 From: PRodda@MSM.mea.com Received: from [140.237.101.24] by pacific.mea.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01070; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:42:15 -0500 X400-Originator: PRodda@MSM.mea.com X400-Recipients: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=JUNK/ADMD=JUNK/C=US/;0013500001285121000004] X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Message-Id: <0013500001285121000004*@MHS> To: "DIY(u)EFI(a)coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: cossies, holy wars and non-emission cont Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:42:24 -0800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ======================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@open.ac.uk ======================== >Jeez, want to sart a wholy war?? just say a few words about who used >what microcontroler and why... :) >6803 is not a bad chip, and I am sure the Cosworth system works well. I >was -just- saying, if I had the resources, which maybe Cosworth did not, I >would choose the 8061 (which is a custom 8096) over the 6803 any day. And >maybe twice on sunday. Doesn't mattter, I would choose a 6811, or even >better, a 68000 (332??) if I had total financial freedom..... and then I >would surround it in Altera FPGA's.... and have a car that was smarter and >faster then the average fax-moedm.. :) (which usually has 2X the power of >PC its hooked up to :) ) > > >---Lou i did not, unfortunately, get any of the 'Holy War' volleys to which Lou refers but here's a quick thought on the 'Holy War' sierra cosworth 6803 ecu - bear in mind the small fact that no car manufacturer is going to spend more than they absolutely have to - the 6803 is pretty damned cheap and not bad at doing a mass-market job. the closest that most drivers (even cossie freaks) get to the gubbins of their ECUs is to maybe do a 'chip change' on the eprom and/or change MAP sensors and injectors. the lunatic fringe (i.e. most of us who are interested in HAVING some control (not simply working with existing control s/w)). ps - is there anyone else out there who comes from (and is going back to) a NON-emission controlled country (yes, they're out there! South Africa for one...)? paul. ======================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@open.ac.uk ======================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jan 22 22:05:42 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA14022; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 21:50:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pacific.mea.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA14017; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:50:41 -0500 From: PRodda@MSM.mea.com Received: from [140.237.101.24] by pacific.mea.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA01452; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:50:33 -0500 X400-Originator: PRodda@MSM.mea.com X400-Recipients: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=JUNK/ADMD=JUNK/C=US/;0013500001285157000004] X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Message-Id: <0013500001285157000004*@MHS> To: "DIY(u)EFI(a)coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Superchips ICON - anyone know anything a Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:50:45 -0800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu =========================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@ukonline.co.uk =========================== I am curious - admittedly I haven't spoken to Superchips but am still curious about just how much the behaviour/response of these nasty 'tamper-proof' ecus can be modified by the Superchips' ICON box. From the bits I've read, it sounds damned simple in concept and clever in execution - but very little info appears to be in circulation otherwise. Anyone know much about this clever device? This is sheer curiosity - sounds to me to be good for 'mildly' modified engines (somehow don't get the feeling that it'd be able to handle too much variation (particularly on the ignition side - injection pulses can still be delayed ever so slightly without killing things too much)). paul. =========================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@ukonline.co.uk =========================== UMM -- I THINK I APPENDED INCORRECT EMAIL ADDRESS TO MY COMMENT ON THE COSSIE ECU. SORRY. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 00:08:08 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA14897; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:44:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ecsis.ecsis.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA14891; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:44:36 -0500 Received: from annex-113.ecsis.net by ecsis.ecsis.net with smtp (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0teVuV-0006blC; Mon, 22 Jan 96 17:44 CST Received: by annex-113.ecsis.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BAE8F4.5BE04A80@annex-113.ecsis.net>; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:06:31 -0600 Message-ID: <01BAE8F4.5BE04A80@annex-113.ecsis.net> From: "Brandon L. Walters" To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Opinions on idea ...... Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:51:29 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BAE8F4.5C0B0400" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE8F4.5C0B0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andrew Huang[SMTP:ajh@diamond.idbsu.edu] wrote: ...might I ask whether turbulence is a bad thing in a manifold? It can be OK, especially at part throttle, for the reason you said. = This is why you see experienced tuners intentionally leaving burr marks = in some intake ports. If air was the only fluid in the runner, and the = injected fuel was perfectly mixed before the spark plug saw it, a = smooth, "laminar flow"-ing intake runner would be best. Brandon ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE8F4.5C0B0400 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiAAAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABABwAAABSRTogT3BpbmlvbnMgb24gaWRlYSAuLi4uLi4AJAgBBYADAA4AAADMBwEAFgANADMA HQABAEgBASCAAwAOAAAAzAcBABYADQAZABsAAQAsAQEJgAEAIQAAADA1MDc3NTlGQkU1NENGMTE5 QTM2MDA2MDhDNjdCNEE4ABIHAQOQBgDoAwAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMA NgAAAAAAQAA5AMAMmQUD6boBHgBwAAEAAAAcAAAAUkU6IE9waW5pb25zIG9uIGlkZWEgLi4uLi4u AAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG66QMFkZ91Bw1UvhHPmjYAYIxntKgAAB4AHgwBAAAAAwAAAE1TAAAeAB8M AQAAABoAAABXaW5kb3dzL0JSQU5ET05XL0JSQU5ET05XAAAAAwAGEIZVuJoDAAcQcAEAAB4ACBAB AAAAZQAAAEFORFJFV0hVQU5HU01UUDpBSkhARElBTU9ORElEQlNVRURVV1JPVEU6TUlHSFRJQVNL V0hFVEhFUlRVUkJVTEVOQ0VJU0FCQURUSElOR0lOQU1BTklGT0xEP0lUQ0FOQkVPSywAAAAAAgEJ EAEAAABoAgAAZAIAAKYDAABMWkZ13JVXlf8ACgEPAhUCqAXrAoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAG wwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk78RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2BgbmcxMDMU UAsDbBBpMTgwAtFpLTE8NDQN8AzQGnMLWTE2FwqgA2AT0GMFQEFuZBMWEAfgSHUZAVtTTQBUUDph amhAZAcHMARgHKAuaWRic+R1LgmAdV0LRhRRC/KiYwBAICB3HCI6Gy/nHDQKixnQMzYbFx+VIa85 HzogLiYQI08cNG1p9GdoBUBJHx8gISZPHDToYXNrIEBoEcArIAXAInQIcGJ1bAnwY2WGIAQAKsAg YmFkK4D6aAuAZywwA6AscAOBBpC5BvBkPwqPH2wuFUkFQApjA5FiLCBPSywgzQeQcAWQBzFseSrA BUDvLkEFQCtAHCF0K+AxMAIQOytxKyAgFhAq0AIgIHm5CGAgcwtwHlAgMFQs4H8EICxBKxAx4DQT CeAxQHjPMXAIgSwBLLF1bgSQNPFzAjAJ8HRpAiAxsyvgYTZ2LPIrwHIFwADAcmufNxI0QANwLCEC MGFrLCBKcBWxczSRSWYqwGl9BcB3KtAzUwIgMdEY4HX/HnAtIjNjNtA24TEwAHAssu05omocUTaR ZgpQAyA7It02IWYcUTHRJ7B4NpEw4P8zISwgM2IxYDjxMiAKQC0Q8zRQB+BpdD0hNEAEYBww+mgx MCILYCewN7AFwBjg8G93Ii0s9DnjPMQgQN8IYC3gMNIw4BPALi4VLhW8QnI9QQIgLhUVMQBHUAMA EBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwgCCoYv/ougFAAAgwgCCoYv/ougEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAA ACAL ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAE8F4.5C0B0400-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 00:12:11 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA14920; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:57:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uswat.advtech.uswest.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA14915; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 18:56:58 -0500 Received: from egate.mnet.uswest.com ([151.116.23.138]) by uswat.advtech.uswest.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA08381 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:56:50 -0700 (MST) Received: from centhub (centhub.mnet.uswest.com [151.116.23.137]) by egate.mnet.uswest.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA08957 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 17:04:42 -0700 (MST) Received: by centhub.mnet.uswest.com (M-Net Hub.951228) Received: from sp5-316.nts.uswest.com by cp.uswest.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA25090; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:54:54 -0700 Received: by sp5-316.nts.uswest.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA01826; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:54:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:54:54 -0700 From: scicior@cp.uswc.uswest.com (Steve Ciciora) Message-Id: <9601222354.AA01826@sp5-316.nts.uswest.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: Re: DDIS Web/FTP site X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Web: http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe > FTP: spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (login: anonymous) > > I was hoping people would visit my machine and I got my wish! There has > been so much volume that the HTTP and FTP daemon have been dying. I'm > working on the problem so please be patient. Keep trying! > > BTW, the equations are now in the second article and all the links are > working. Please let me now if you have problems. > > -tim I was able to access your site back when you only had part I. Now that you have announced Part II, I have had no luck accessing your site. Anyone else have any luck? What is the chance you can email me the article? Thanks! -Steven Ciciora From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 03:34:21 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA15373; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 03:08:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from moe.infi.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA15368; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:08:02 -0500 Received: from Default by moe.infi.net with SMTP (Infinet-S-3.3) id WAA02156; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:07:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199601230307.WAA02156@moe.infi.net> X-Sender: orin@nr.infi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:02:03 -0500 To: diy_efi From: orin@nr.infi.net (Orin B. Harding) Subject: Re: DDIS Web/FTP site X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > >> Web: http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu/hpe >> FTP: spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (login: anonymous) >> >> I was hoping people would visit my machine and I got my wish! There has >> been so much volume that the HTTP and FTP daemon have been dying. I'm >> working on the problem so please be patient. Keep trying! >> >> BTW, the equations are now in the second article and all the links are >> working. Please let me now if you have problems. >> >> -tim > > I was able to access your site back when you only had part I. Now that >you have announced Part II, I have had no luck accessing your site. Anyone >else have any luck? > >What is the chance you can email me the article? > >Thanks! > >-Steven Ciciora > > I accessed it this afternoon and received parts I & II along with drawings, etc...No problems at all.. Orin Harding - Greensboro, NC ('74 MGB-GT - '79 MGB Roadster) From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 04:54:16 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA15546; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:30:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix5.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA15541; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:30:21 -0500 Received: from ix-cha-nc1-19.ix.netcom.com by ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id UAA15944; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 20:30:14 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 20:30:14 -0800 Message-Id: <199601230430.UAA15944@ix5.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: dewhisna@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Donald Whisnant Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > >From: FIScot@aol.com >Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:40:54 -0500 >Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A > > Subj: Engine codes for '84 T/A > Date: 96-01-21 13:31:47 EST > From: ws6transam@voyager.net (Daniel R Burk) > > > Does anyone have the hexadecimal engine codes for the GM ALDL computers > > as used in '82 through '92? I have an '84 that I want to begin > > communicating with, but I do not know which addresses I need to poll to > > receive the engine diagnostics data. So far I have struck out in > > finding them via the random method. Also, the ALDL interface seems to > > have the pins in the wrong locations than the "official" designation. > Scott and Dan: I have several of the older ECM's that I want to communicate with also (we've talked about this a little before Dan). I am putting a new engine (a '93 4.3L Vortec V6) into my '85 Grand Prix. The new engine came complete with its own ECM. What I want to do is first communicate to the old ECM. And then to the new '93 ECM. Question 1) Where did you guys obtain this data on the ALDL port of the 8192 baud rate spec and 160 baud ALDL diag box?? I have the SAE HS-3000 doc, but it basically only talks about the newer OBD-II, which will come in handy later when I start tinkering on my '95 Firebird... Question 2) I have been trying to read the old ROM in the '85 ECM without success. I've been told that it is just a mask programmed version of the 2732. But one of my eprom programmers just reads all 0's and the other just reads all 1's -- the conclusion I drew was that the chip isn't getting enabled and the 0 and 1 difference is the difference in the pull-ups used on the two units. Has anyone else tried this and/or has a solution?? -- I've contemplated using several cpu output ports and just writing ALL possible binary combinations to ALL lines on the chip via current limiting resistors and then use a set of input ports to read the pins at the chip side of the resistors. This will do 2 things: it will tell me an exact pin out -- after I sort through the data -- and it will tell me how to enable the stupid thing... Any idea guys??? I've got a meeting Thursday with an engineer and a rep from Harris on their OBD-II J1850 communcations chips and I've got a conference scheduled with Motorola with one of their engineers and reps on the same. Eventually, I will be able to communicate with this blasted ECMs and PCMs... Donald Whisnant dewhisna@ix.netcom.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 05:24:45 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id FAA15840; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 05:00:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kcbbs.gen.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA15835; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 00:00:09 -0500 Received: (from steveb@localhost) by kcbbs.gen.nz (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA17251 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:46:18 +1300 (NZDT) From: Steve Baldwin Message-Id: <199601230446.RAA17251@kcbbs.gen.nz> Subject: Re: cossies, holy wars and non-emission cont To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:46:17 +1300 (NZDT) In-Reply-To: <0013500001285121000004*@MHS> from "PRodda@MSM.mea.com" at Jan 22, 96 01:42:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > ps - is there anyone else out there who comes from (and is going back to) a > NON-emission controlled country (yes, they're out there! South Africa for > one...)? > > paul. No emission laws here in New Zealand. We are only just banning leaded petrol in favour of something a bit more carcinogenic. And there's still plenty of Morris 1000's in daily use. Folk law has that a Qantas pilot once said, "We are approaching Auckland airport. Please set your watches back 10 years." :-) Steve. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 07:09:27 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA16030; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 06:46:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from guardian.aesprodata.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA16025; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 01:45:57 -0500 From: dzorde@aesprodata.com.au Received: by guardian.aesprodata.com.au with UUCP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA11176; Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:45:41 +0800 Received: from cc:Mail by afcperth.aesprodata.com.au id AA822437867 Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:57:47 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 96 14:57:47 Message-Id: <9600238224.AA822437867@afcperth.aesprodata.com.au> To: diy_efi Subject: engine reversal Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey James I keep getting a bounce back from your mail server, so I'll post the answers here. Hope no one else minds. Well its a 71 model. It uses a 127 (903cc) block with the standard 850 crank (I think). I know the pistons have been swapped around on the rods to allow for the engine running the opposite way. Currently it has a suzuki SOHC head on it (don't know what suzuki, someone else actually spent a day going around with an 850 head gasket, and comparing it to all others). To accomodate for oil a few external oil lines have been put in to feed the top end. The fuel is via an electric fuel pump feeding two 40mm side draft Webbers. Water cooling is via a front mounted radiator. At last dyno test the car was putting out just over 90HP at the rear wheels. We have been thinking of EFI as well, probably a system of a jap import to make it cheap. If you want lots of power try stroking the crank to a 1050 crank, bore out the engine to 80mm (I think) and put in Honda pistons. This should take it to somewhere near 1500cc and close to 200HP at the rear wheels. This is one of our idears, or just put in a rotary. As for other places for information, I am not too sure. I do know there is an internet site somewhere that has a lot of Fiat info, however it may be in italian. If you search for it and happen to find it can you let me know where it is. Anyway hope it helped, I have heard of special built racing engines being available in the US for the 850 for only a few thousand. Mabye you could find some info on this. Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 15:19:54 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA16750; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:29:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bessel.tutech.fi by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA16745; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:29:02 -0500 From: imonkare@bessel.tutech.fi Received: by bessel.tutech.fi (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA43286; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:29:42 +0200 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:29:42 +0200 (WET) To: diy_efi Subject: Ford EEC-IV Ignition Module Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hi! Could someone help me with a Ford EEC-IV TFI ignition module of a=20 Ford Sierra (with HALL sensor and european ECU). I=B4ve built a control=20 unit of a Siemens SAB80C517 microcontroller and now I have some=20 difficulties in controlling the IM. I=B4ve come this far: output ------- ------ of | | HALL |_________| / \ / Start advance (say 12 deg BTDC) "Max" advancd (about 90 deg BTDC) "Start advance" is the point where EEC-IV fires when starting the engine.= =20 Even if the ECU is disconnected the IM fires at "start advance" (limp=20 home). The ECU tells to the IM when to fire with a rising edge. I tried=20 that too. I switched the ignition signal OFF at "max advance" an ON when=20 I wanted to fire, I could fire only AFTER "start advance". When I had an=20 advance of about 30 deg the IM fired at "start advance". So, a few questions: Am I so far right? Does ECU take care of dwell? With the falling edge? How to calculate that? Here is something about me. I=B4m studing telecommunications in Institute= =20 of Techology in Turku, Finland. I=B4ve built a control unit of a Siemens=20 SAB80C517. So far I have software only for ingition (almost ready),=20 injection is coming in summer. My car is a Ford Taunus =B482 with Motronic= =20 (from Sierra) and turbo. imonkare@bessel.tutech.fi From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 16:28:57 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA16883; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:44:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix6.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA16871; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:43:58 -0500 Received: from by ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id HAA10905; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:43:18 -0800 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:43:18 -0800 Message-Id: <199601231543.HAA10905@ix6.ix.netcom.com> From: jzalesny@ix.netcom.com (JimZ -92' AWD Tsi ) Subject: Re: Map's chart To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > This chart is for normal aspirated engines >How I can put a graphic chart on the DIY_EFI? >Forgive my delay. >Oscar Alcantara. Oscar, I'm looking for the MAS information for the DSM line of products. This includes the Plymouth Laser/Eagle Talon/Mitsubishi Eclipse line of cars. The MAS is a FM frequency signal producer. My car came with a tubocharger and I'm trying to defeat the problem of fuel cut by limiting the FM signal supplied by the MAS. If you have any data for this I would like to receive a copy of it. ThanX Jim Zalesny (I'm glad your system is up and working) From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 17:37:10 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA17182; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:41:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from moe.infi.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA17177; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:41:43 -0500 Received: from Default by moe.infi.net with SMTP (Infinet-S-3.3) id LAA11034; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:41:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199601231641.LAA11034@moe.infi.net> X-Sender: orin@nr.infi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:35:45 -0500 To: diy_efi From: orin@nr.infi.net (Orin B. Harding) Subject: Re: DDIS Web/FTP site X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Try the following addresses for the Digital Distributorless Ignition System papers...I just tried it and received both. The addresses in the last message don't work... >>> Web: http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu:80/hpe/ddis1.html (Part 1) http://spbted.gtri.gatech.edu:80/hpe/ddis2.html (Part 2) Orin Harding - Greensboro, NC ('74 MGB-GT - '79 MGB Roadster) From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 18:03:07 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA17352; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:19:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from internet-mail2.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA17347; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:19:00 -0500 Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com id AA19593 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:18:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199601231718.AA19593@internet-mail2.ford.com> Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-2); Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:18:46 -0500 Received: by internet-mail2.ford.com (Protected-side Proxy Mail Agent-1); Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:18:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:18:49 +0500 From: ehernan3@ford.com (Edward Hernandez (R)) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Map's chart X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 954 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu JIm Zalesny wrote: "My car(Talon/Eclipse/Laser) came with a tubocharger and I'm trying to defeat the problem of fuel cut by limiting the FM signal supplied by the MAS." You realize this is Mitsu's way of protecting the engine from running lean when it demands more fuel than the stock system can deliver. Please upgrade your fuel system before bypassing the fuel cut. You should also install an EGT monitor and/or A/F meter(even though the meter reads voltage from the stock non-linear O2 sensor, it'll tell you if you've gone leaner than stoich, which you should never do at WOT). Of course, you may already know all this, but a little redundant advice never burnt any pistons... While I'm on the topic, the T/E/L info is below: Submissions: talon@dsm.org Subscriptions: majordomo@dsm.org (send the word "help" in a message body) Home Page: http://www.dsm.org FTP Archives: ftp://talon:eclipse@ftp.dsm.org Ed Hernandez ehernan3@ed8719.pto.ford.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 22:30:35 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA18409; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:05:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ibmPCUG.CO.UK by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA18404; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:04:57 -0500 Received: from kate.ibmpcug.co.uk by alice.ibmPCUG.CO.UK id ab17625; 23 Jan 96 22:03 GMT Received: from turbo by kate.ibmpcug.co.uk id aa22364; 23 Jan 96 22:03 GMT Received: by win-uk.net!turbo; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:59:10 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.60 Message-ID: <111@turbo.win-uk.net> To: diy_efi, diy_efi Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:59:09 Subject: Re: Ford EEC-IV Ignition Module From: "Brian Warburton, c/o Turbo Systems Ltd" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi! Could someone help me with a Ford EEC-IV TFI ignition module of a=20 >Ford Sierra (with HALL sensor and european ECU). I=B4ve built a control=20 >unit of a Siemens SAB80C517 microcontroller and now I have some=20 >difficulties in controlling the IM. > >I=B4ve come this far: > >output ------- ------ >of | | >HALL |_________| > / \ > / Start advance (say 12 deg BTDC) > "Max" advancd > (about 90 deg BTDC) > >"Start advance" is the point where EEC-IV fires when starting the engine.= >=20 >Even if the ECU is disconnected the IM fires at "start advance" (limp=20 >home). The ECU tells to the IM when to fire with a rising edge. I tried=20 >that too. I switched the ignition signal OFF at "max advance" an ON when=20 >I wanted to fire, I could fire only AFTER "start advance". When I had an=20 >advance of about 30 deg the IM fired at "start advance". > >So, a few questions: Am I so far right? >From the way you've described your TFI unit functionality, my guess is that it's not a Ford TFI unit but a Ford EDIS unit. This takes in the 36-1 signal from the VRS sensor (not HALL) and converts it to a signal with 50% dutycycle and rising edges at 10 deg BTDC for each cylinder which it feeds through to the EEC-iv. In return the EEC-iv sends out a required spark advance signal every firing event where the width of the pulse sent relates to the spark advance required. The pulse timing from the ECU does NOT affect the ignition timing. After a certain number of firing events without receiving a valid advance pulse from the ECU, the EDIS switches to it's default spark advance which is 10 deg BTDC. The EDIS unit of course drives the standard Ford twin-coil pack (wasted spark). >Does ECU take care of dwell? With the falling edge? How to calculate that? > Dwell is handled automatically by the EDIS unit, but rate of change of spark advance must be limited by the ECU to a few degrees per firing event to avoid screwing it up. > >imonkare@bessel.tutech.fi > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 22:30:38 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA18401; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:04:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ibmPCUG.CO.UK by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA18392; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:04:27 -0500 Received: from kate.ibmpcug.co.uk by alice.ibmPCUG.CO.UK id ab17621; 23 Jan 96 22:03 GMT Received: from turbo by kate.ibmpcug.co.uk id aa22353; 23 Jan 96 22:03 GMT Received: by win-uk.net!turbo; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:59:10 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.60 Message-ID: <111@turbo.win-uk.net> To: diy_efi, diy_efi Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:59:09 Subject: Re: Ford EEC-IV Ignition Module From: "Brian Warburton, c/o Turbo Systems Ltd" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Hi! Could someone help me with a Ford EEC-IV TFI ignition module of a=20 >Ford Sierra (with HALL sensor and european ECU). I=B4ve built a control=20 >unit of a Siemens SAB80C517 microcontroller and now I have some=20 >difficulties in controlling the IM. > >I=B4ve come this far: > >output ------- ------ >of | | >HALL |_________| > / \ > / Start advance (say 12 deg BTDC) > "Max" advancd > (about 90 deg BTDC) > >"Start advance" is the point where EEC-IV fires when starting the engine.= >=20 >Even if the ECU is disconnected the IM fires at "start advance" (limp=20 >home). The ECU tells to the IM when to fire with a rising edge. I tried=20 >that too. I switched the ignition signal OFF at "max advance" an ON when=20 >I wanted to fire, I could fire only AFTER "start advance". When I had an=20 >advance of about 30 deg the IM fired at "start advance". > >So, a few questions: Am I so far right? >From the way you've described your TFI unit functionality, my guess is that it's not a Ford TFI unit but a Ford EDIS unit. This takes in the 36-1 signal from the VRS sensor (not HALL) and converts it to a signal with 50% dutycycle and rising edges at 10 deg BTDC for each cylinder which it feeds through to the EEC-iv. In return the EEC-iv sends out a required spark advance signal every firing event where the width of the pulse sent relates to the spark advance required. The pulse timing from the ECU does NOT affect the ignition timing. After a certain number of firing events without receiving a valid advance pulse from the ECU, the EDIS switches to it's default spark advance which is 10 deg BTDC. The EDIS unit of course drives the standard Ford twin-coil pack (wasted spark). >Does ECU take care of dwell? With the falling edge? How to calculate that? > Dwell is handled automatically by the EDIS unit, but rate of change of spark advance must be limited by the ECU to a few degrees per firing event to avoid screwing it up. > >imonkare@bessel.tutech.fi > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 22:30:38 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA18402; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:04:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ibmPCUG.CO.UK by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA18391; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:04:23 -0500 Received: from kate.ibmpcug.co.uk by alice.ibmPCUG.CO.UK id aa17627; 23 Jan 96 22:03 GMT Received: from turbo by kate.ibmpcug.co.uk id aa22265; 23 Jan 96 22:02 GMT Received: by win-uk.net!turbo; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:31:13 X-Mailer: WinNET Mail, v2.60 Message-ID: <110@turbo.win-uk.net> To: Date:Tue@ibmPCUG.CO.UK;, 23.Jan.1996.2131:12@ibmPCUG.CO.UK; Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:31:12 Subject: Re: Superchips ICON - anyone know anything a From: "Brian Warburton, c/o Turbo Systems Ltd" Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >=========================== >EMAIL: paul.rodda@ukonline.co.uk >=========================== >I am curious - admittedly I haven't spoken to Superchips but am still >curious about just how much the behaviour/response of these nasty >'tamper-proof' ecus can be modified by the Superchips' ICON box. From the >bits I've read, it sounds damned simple in concept and clever in execution - >but very little info appears to be in circulation otherwise. Anyone know >much about this clever device? > >This is sheer curiosity - sounds to me to be good for 'mildly' modified >engines (somehow don't get the feeling that it'd be able to handle too much >variation (particularly on the ignition side - injection pulses can still be >delayed ever so slightly without killing things too much)). > Having looked at a similar idea a couple of years ago coupled with seeing an advert for the ICON, my guess on how it works is that it connects between the coil drivers coming out of the standard ECU and the coil pack. It intercepts the coil on/off signals from the ECU, modifies them dependent on an RPM-in Spark-Modifier-out 2-D Map (RPM being calculated by looking at the time between spark events) and then sends them on their way again. Plus points are that it allows you to vary spark on previously unmodified ECU's, minus points are that you apparently can't modify the maps yourself, you have to request new maps from Superchips, Second concern is that any ECU requested spark advance will always happen one event late as you can't tell the ECU's advanced the spark until you've got the coil-off from the ECU whereupon it should already have happened so you can't adjust it until the next firing event. For what it's worth, I'd guess it has a PIC inside and probably not a lot else apart from some coil drivers and circuit protection logic. Of course, Peter from Superchips is a member here so he may correct my asumptions .... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Brian Warburton, "Still searching for the perfect curve....." email: bwarb@turbo.win-uk.net Advanced Automotive Electronics Ltd, Van-Nuys House, Scotlands Drive, Farnham Common, England. SL2-3ES ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 23:56:30 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA18934; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:51:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from lucy.swin.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA18929; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:50:54 -0500 Received: from [] ([136.186.89.110]) by lucy.swin.edu.au (5.65c/1.34) id AA20067; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:50:12 +1100 Message-Id: <199601232350.AA20067@lucy.swin.edu.au> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Andrew Dennison" Organization: Swinburne University To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:50:28 EST+10 Subject: Re: SHAMELESS EFI332 PROMOTION - was Re: ECUs Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On 22 Jan 96 at 7:50, Paul E. Campbell wrote: > > I'll bite this time. Why use flash memory over a serial EEPROM? I > can only think of three reasons: > > 1. You've got a PCMCIA slot for the world's easiest reprogramming. The CPU can reprogram its own flash, it's also a hell of a lot faster to program FLASH than EEPROM. > 2. Faster read/write times (overkill if it already uses battery > backed RAM). > 3. Denser storage. 4. Flexability - use SRAM for development and flash for final code storage, whatever. We intend to use serial EEPROM for some data storage on the I/O board. The processor board (which I was discussing) was developed to be general enough that it could be used for any generic 68332 application. I know you could build a basic EFI system with an 8 bit micro of any flavor and 2K of memory (yea - lets also write in machine code :), but for not much more money you can have a 32bit system with heaps of memory and not have to worry about running out of memory, cpu time, etc. > > The serial stream format is kind of awkward but trivial to use once > you get working subroutines written. These serial devices are great for extra I/O, EEPROM, etc > They cost about $5 for a 4K chip, which equates to about 3 months > for my data logger purposes. That's also about the size of the > storage requirements I've seen quoted on the EFI list for their > engine lookup tables. FLASH $9 for 128K. Sometimes it's worth remembering that your way isn't the only way:) Andrew ------------------------------------ Andrew Dennison - Research Associate IRIS - Industrial Research Institute - Swinburne University 545 Burwood Rd. Hawthorn Victoria 3122 Australia Phone: +61 3 9214 5033 Fax: +61 3 9214 5050 From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jan 23 23:56:36 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA18942; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:54:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from guardian.aesprodata.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA18937; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:53:51 -0500 From: dzorde@aesprodata.com.au Received: by guardian.aesprodata.com.au with UUCP (5.65/1.2-eef) id AA15949; Wed, 24 Jan 96 07:53:29 +0800 Received: from cc:Mail by afcperth.aesprodata.com.au id AA822499557 Wed, 24 Jan 96 08:05:57 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 08:05:57 Message-Id: <9600248224.AA822499557@afcperth.aesprodata.com.au> To: diy_efi Subject: Fiat WWW page Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu For those that are interested in the Fiat home page, I now have an address. Official but not technical home page: www.fiat.it Not official but technical home page: www.autocar.com/faqs/fiat/fiat_faq.html For 903 Fiat engine exists a Weber Single Point Injection system developed for Fiat Cinquecento 903. Have a good work! Flavio +--------------------------------------------------------------------- -+ | Magneti Marelli - Weber Flavio Corradini | | Engine Control Division EMail: corradini@bologna.marelli.it | | Via Timavo, 33 Tel.: +39 51 6157.835/6157.838 | | I-40134 Bologna (ITALY) Fax.: +39 51 6157.782/6157.735 | +--------------------------------------------------------------------- -+ I haven't looked at the pages myself yet, but they should be interesting. Dan dzorde@aesprodata.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 01:57:55 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id BAA19214; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:47:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pacific.mea.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA19209; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:47:36 -0500 From: PRodda@MSM.mea.com Received: from [140.237.101.24] by pacific.mea.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA10408; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:47:33 -0500 X400-Originator: PRodda@MSM.mea.com X400-Recipients: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=JUNK/ADMD=JUNK/C=US/;0013500001288793000004] X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Message-Id: <0013500001288793000004*@MHS> To: "DIY(u)EFI(a)coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: ICON do it! Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 17:47:34 -0800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu =========================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@ukonline.co.uk =========================== Thanks for the thoughts, Brian. Sounds about right - I must admit that I do have my reservations about the idea for anything other than mildly modified engines or for a little 'tweaking' of factory settings on a std unit. Be interesting to hear from Superchips! Paul. =========================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@ukonline.co.uk =========================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 04:22:27 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA19584; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:06:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA19579; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:06:12 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm5-09.magicnet.net [204.96.116.159]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA17248 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:06:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199601240406.XAA17248@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:03:22 -0500 To: diy_efi From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Superchips ICON - anyone know anything a Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu my guess on how it works is that it >connects between the coil drivers coming out of the standard ECU and >the coil pack. It intercepts the coil on/off signals from the ECU, >modifies them dependent on an RPM-in Spark-Modifier-out 2-D Map snip > >For what it's worth, I'd guess it has a PIC inside and probably not >a lot else apart from some coil drivers and circuit protection >logic. You are both (Brian and Paul) absolutely correct. The ICON has an EPROM with a modified timing curve, pic and a few bits of glue circuitry and protection stuff, and a very pretty box :) The ICON is suitable for mildly modified engines and stock engines, but you have to remember that the load is reverse calculated from the RPM and the timing and if it is wildly different from stock, the new timing will be wrong. Of course we can make a custom one, but we need to get the car on our dyno to do it. Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Chairman Superchips Ltd "Timing is everything" Superchips home page with all the answers http://www.superchips.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 06:14:20 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id GAA19791; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 06:03:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA19786; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:03:06 -0500 Received: from happyformula.meche.rpi.edu (happyformula.meche.rpi.edu [128.113.110.70]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id BAA29011 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:03:04 -0500 Received: (lansie@localhost) by happyformula.meche.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) id BAA13022 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:03:04 -0500 From: "Edward J. Lansinger" Message-Id: <9601240103.ZM18140@happyformula.meche.rpi.edu> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:03:02 -0500 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 07feb95) To: DIY_EFI Subject: (Fwd) Developing an Engine Control System Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I can't remember who was talking about engine simulators. If you are out there could you reply to this person? (directly - I don't think he's on this list) Thanks. - Ed Lansinger --- Forwarded mail from Gabe Phan Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:57:14 -0800 (PST) From: Gabe Phan To: lansie@rpi.edu Subject: Developing an Engine Control System I'm an EE at the University of California, Riverside doing a senior project. I am doing a simulation of an internal combustion engine given the spark firing and injector signal. I am also developing an engine control for a hydrogen vehicle in a later stage. I was inquiring any information or sources to that may be useful. I read your article in Circuit Cellar INK on developing an engine control. Sources on a model for an IC engine would be helpful. Thank you. + ------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+ | / / / / \ \ Gabe Phan | blakey@engr.ucr.edu | | / /___ / /___ \ \ ------------- | | | /_____/ /_____/ \ \____ ____ | | | O O O O O O O O \_____\ <____> | | +-------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+ ---End of forwarded mail from Gabe Phan From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 12:30:54 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA20312; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:21:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from bessel.tutech.fi by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA20307; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 07:21:31 -0500 From: imonkare@bessel.tutech.fi Received: by bessel.tutech.fi (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA43242; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:22:11 +0200 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:22:09 +0200 (WET) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Ford EEC-IV Ignition Module In-Reply-To: <111@turbo.win-uk.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > =20 > >Hi! Could someone help me with a Ford EEC-IV TFI ignition module of a=3D= 20 > >Ford Sierra (with HALL sensor and european ECU). I=3DB4ve built a contro= l=3D20 > >unit of a Siemens SAB80C517 microcontroller and now I have some=3D20 > >difficulties in controlling the IM. > > > >I=3DB4ve come this far: > > > >output ------- ------ > >of | | > >HALL |_________| > > / \ > > / Start advance (say 12 deg BTDC) > > "Max" advancd > > (about 90 deg BTDC) > > > >"Start advance" is the point where EEC-IV fires when starting the engine= .=3D > >=3D20 > >Even if the ECU is disconnected the IM fires at "start advance" (limp=3D= 20 > >home). The ECU tells to the IM when to fire with a rising edge. I tried= =3D20 > >that too. I switched the ignition signal OFF at "max advance" an ON when= =3D20 > >I wanted to fire, I could fire only AFTER "start advance". When I had an= =3D20 > >advance of about 30 deg the IM fired at "start advance". > > > >So, a few questions: Am I so far right? =20 > From the way you've described your TFI unit functionality, my guess > is that it's not a Ford TFI unit but a Ford EDIS unit. This takes > in the 36-1 signal from the VRS sensor (not HALL) and converts it > to a signal with 50% dutycycle and rising edges at 10 deg BTDC > for each cylinder which it feeds through to the EEC-iv. In return > the EEC-iv sends out a required spark advance signal every firing > event where the width of the pulse sent relates to the spark > advance required. The pulse timing from the ECU does NOT affect the > ignition timing. After a certain number of firing events without > receiving a valid advance pulse from the ECU, the EDIS switches to > it's default spark advance which is 10 deg BTDC. The EDIS unit of > course drives the standard Ford twin-coil pack (wasted spark).=20 >=20 >=20 > >Does ECU take care of dwell? With the falling edge? How to calculate tha= t? > > >=20 > Dwell is handled automatically by the EDIS unit, but rate of > change of spark advance must be limited by the ECU to a few degrees > per firing event to avoid screwing it up. =20 Brian, I=B4m not sure about the name (TFI or EDIS), but it uses a HALL sensor for= =20 sure. I have the system installed on my car and with EEC-IV ECU it works=20 fine. Ilari Monkare, imonkare@bessel.tutech.fi From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 15:29:51 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA20846; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:20:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from xmission.xmission.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA20841; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:20:49 -0500 Received: from xmission.xmission.com (slc70.xmission.com [204.228.136.70]) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA05052; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:20:46 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 08:20:46 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199601241520.IAA05052@xmission.xmission.com> X-Sender: lndshrk@xmission.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Land Shark Subject: Simulating an IC engine ... Cc: blakey@engr.ucr.edu Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 01:03 AM 1/24/96 -0500, you wrote: >I am doing a simulation of an internal combustion engine given the >spark firing and injector signal. >Sources on a model for an IC engine would be >helpful. Thank you. Guys, please keep me in the loop on this .. I need to simulate a few BMW 6's also .. Jim Conforti From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 15:45:05 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA21060; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:35:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pacific.mea.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA21055; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:35:19 -0500 From: PRodda@MSM.mea.com Received: from [140.237.101.24] by pacific.mea.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18228; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:35:15 -0500 X400-Originator: PRodda@MSM.mea.com X400-Recipients: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X400-Mts-Identifier: [/PRMD=JUNK/ADMD=JUNK/C=US/;0013500001289406000004] X400-Content-Type: P2-1988 (22) Message-Id: <0013500001289406000004*@MHS> To: "DIY(u)EFI(a)coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: inconagain Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 07:35:14 -0800 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu =========================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@ukonline.co.uk =========================== tks for the confirmation, peter. not trying to knock the ICON unit at all - was simply curious to know just how much it is capable of doing/not doing. thanks for the response. cheerio paul r. =========================== EMAIL: paul.rodda@ukonline.co.uk =========================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 17:13:02 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA21326; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:54:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.oeonline.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA21321; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:54:24 -0500 Received: from oeonline.oeonline.com by mail.oeonline.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0tf8O7-00042yC; Wed, 24 Jan 96 11:49 EST Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:46:10 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Wesley - SLIP X-Sender: mwesley@oeonline.oeonline.com To: diy_efi cc: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Cyberdyne A/F meter In-Reply-To: <01BAE76F.5435AD60@qsirmt06.qsi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Sat, 20 Jan 1996, Jim Pearl wrote: > I don't mean to sound skeptical of your results but if the Cyberdyne = > gauge is using a standard sensor it's nearly impossible for it to do the = > things you've described. The readout from the "standard" sensor(s) is = > NOT linear and they operate more like a light switch than any sort of = > A/F sensor (so I've been told many times). Just out of curiosity - did = > you ever compare the readouts given by the gauge with a true A/F meter = > such as a Horiba? If they compared closely I'd believe it otherwise I'm = We did just that. I compared 5 different 'guages' with 50 O2 sensors against a Horbia, Bosch LA2, and NTK 5001 and none of them were even close. We would see A/F errors of up to 3 full points off. The 'guage' would read '12:1' and actual would be more like 9:1! Of course it would vary for sensor to sensor, but out of the 50 sensors we tested, NONE were close. They were real good around stoich, but above or below that. O2 sensors used were from Bosch, Tomco, and NTK. The stock O2 sensors are too non-linear away from stoich to be useful. Of course if one has spent money on a 'guage' it's hard to convice them otherwise. Similar testing was also done at Bosch with the same results (compare aftermarket 'guage' to real A/F ratio measurement devices). Mike... From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jan 24 19:54:55 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA21767; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:38:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from opus.mtu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA21762; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:38:03 -0500 Received: from mtu.edu (mtu.edu [141.219.70.1]) by opus.mtu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA29535 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:37:55 -0500 Received: from bounce.civil.mtu.edu (root@bounce.civil.mtu.edu [141.219.20.235]) by mtu.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA02660 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:37:50 -0500 From: Timothy Coste Received: from gradlab10.me.mtu.edu (tlcoste@gradlab10.me.mtu.edu [141.219.26.80]) by bounce.civil.mtu.edu (8.6.10/MTU-R1.8) with ESMTP id OAA02993 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:36:24 -0500 Received: (from tlcoste@localhost) by gradlab10.me.mtu.edu (8.6.12/MTU-C1.3) id OAA03255 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:37:42 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:37:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199601241937.OAA03255@gradlab10.me.mtu.edu> To: diy_efi Subject: RE: Cyberdyne A/F meter Content-Length: 524 Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Hey Mike, Be careful at 9:1. I was flipping through our Horiba manual and it says that the sensor life can be measured in tens of hours when run that rich. I can't quote the numbers right now (it was actually late last week I was reading up on it) but the way rich running just kills the poor suckers. And our university budget can't take replacing $900 sensors once a week. Hopefully your budget is better than ours though. :) Just though I'd mention it in case you weren't aware. Tim Coste tlcoste@mtu.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 03:46:10 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA23506; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 03:25:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hermes.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA23501; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 22:25:39 -0500 Received: from INTEL7.intel.com by hermes.intel.com (8.7.1/10.0i); Wed, 24 Jan 1996 19:08:32 -0800 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 96 19:25:36 PST From: "Clinton L. Corbin" Message-Id: <9601250325.utk8123@INTEL7.intel.com> X-To: HERMES::"diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Re: Engine Reversal and EFI To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >down. Often twin engine installations in boats run the engines in >opposite directions, so you might look into SBC marine setups to see if >a reverse direction engine is produced, and what they've done to >support it. > >/Bill My understanding of the twin (and triple) engine installations in off-shore power boats is that both (or all three) engines turn in the same direction. The only difference is that the outdrive (be it sterndrive, v-drive, or other) is geared for reverse rotation. Just my two bits... Clint From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 04:19:49 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA23846; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 04:08:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA23841; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:08:40 -0500 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA17937; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:08:40 -0500 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA15588; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:06:13 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:06:12 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Valentine To: hotrod@dsea.com, DIY_EFI Subject: Identify This ECM Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I just picked up what is supposed to be a ECM and engine harness from a TPI Camaro. I'm 99% sure it's a TPI since it's got 8 injector connectors. There does not seem to be once for a cold start injector. Unknown if it's from a 305 or a 350. ECM has a two cavity connector. Can anyone identify it from these numbers: Service Number: 1227165 Sticker on ROM: Delco ABYA 5400 Sticker inside box: 5088365 Barcoded sticker on harness connector: 310038212158301 Are there any simple tests I can do on the unit to see if it's alive, aside from powering it up and hooking up a check light? I don't have access to a TPI car to try it in. Intended home would be on a 350 Olds.... pre-home-built unit. 8^) I crossposted this since it could be answered in either/or mailing list... --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 04:20:58 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id EAA23856; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 04:14:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA23851; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:14:16 -0500 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA18043; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:15:44 -0500 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA15762; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:13:16 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 23:13:16 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Valentine To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Engine Reversal and EFI In-Reply-To: <9601250325.utk8123@INTEL7.intel.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Clinton L. Corbin wrote: > >down. Often twin engine installations in boats run the engines in > >opposite directions, so you might look into SBC marine setups to see if > >a reverse direction engine is produced, and what they've done to > >support it. > > > >/Bill > My understanding of the twin (and triple) engine installations in off-shore > power boats is that both (or all three) engines turn in the same direction. > The only difference is that the outdrive (be it sterndrive, v-drive, or > other) is geared for reverse rotation. Just my two bits... I've seen it done both ways, but most commonly one motor is reversed. Every reverse-rotation Crusader marine engine I've seen is PLASTERED with caution stickers about its rotation and not to set the timing too far back. A marine mechanic I spoke to said the only difference between a CW and a CCW motor was the cam and the starter - makes sense. He also mentioned that the reverse motors usually had a hotter cam since they didn't make as much power as their normal rotation cousins. --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology" From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 12:13:03 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA24818; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:59:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.bogo.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA24813; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:58:40 -0500 Received: from sian.bogo.co.uk (sian.bogo.co.uk [193.112.165.22]) by mail.bogo.co.uk (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16951 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:58:25 GMT Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:58:25 GMT Message-Id: <199601251158.LAA16951@mail.bogo.co.uk> X-Sender: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk (RAGHBIR SIAN) Subject: Re Lambda Sensors Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu As the debate about Lambda sensors has been increasing on the list i have decided to release some information that i worked out a while back working for an O.E manufacturer. (no names mentioned.) I measured the values of Voltage by comparing the lanbda display using a Bosch Motorsport lambda conditioning module which is horrendously expensive and is used by most major racing teams not to mention O.E. manufacturers all over the world. The table is for an isolated ground (4 wire) NTK EGO sensor. I repeat this table is only valid for the above sensor. The table is as follows: LAMBDA O/P (mV) 0.64 1188 0.66 1153 0.68 1133 0.7 1130 0.72 993 0.74 973 0.76 953 0.78 933 0.8 913 0.82 904 0.85 891 0.87 883 0.9 871 0.92 854 0.95 829 0.97 798 0.98 782 0.99 616 1 450 1.05 194 1.1 47 1.15 35 1.2 30 1.25 24 1.3 21 1.4 18 1.48 15 Yes it does switch as you can see the gradient changes at three major places substantially. I do not want budding mathematicians to tell me that the gradient changes more than 3 times, i kNOW so save it. I did mathematics too. You should be grateful that somebody has released information like this. Don't tell me you could have done it better cos you haven't done it yet. I hope this will answer alot of the questions asked on the list regarding lambda sensors. The test was carried with both the Bosch sensor (reference) and the NTK sensor placed more or less (+ or - 2mm) the same distance from Exhaust manifold and paced at 180 degrees to each other so as to minimize the temperature and gas composition differential between both the sensors. Regards R.S.Sian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Raghbir Sian Engine Control and Combustion Analyst "As Always A ***CONTROL*** Freak" A committee is a group of the unwilling, chosen from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.... Anonymous Life is just one damned thing after another... Joseph Heller Time spent on any item of the agenda will be in inverse proportion to the sum involved. E-mail: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 12:41:37 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA24864; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:23:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA24859; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:23:18 -0500 Received: from ptp2.tecinfo.com (ptp2.tecinfo.com [206.30.166.236]) by ns.tecinfo.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA20831 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:17:57 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:17:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199601251217.GAA20831@ns.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: george dailey Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 12:55 PM 1/21/96 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone have the hexadecimal engine codes for the GM ALDL computers >as used in '82 through '92? > > Any help would be appreciated. > >--- Dan. * * * Dan, I also wish to crack the enigma of the GMC CCC serial data protocol. Here is what I know. Listed below is the "official" pin description from Chilton repair manuals. Notice that GM does not distinguish between M and E. One source has wrote that M is used in conjunction with E for 'high speed communication'. NOT! My '89 350 TPI set up did not have an E connection, just an empty slot. This leads me to believe that it is E or M and not both. My personal tests indicate that serial data will only be transmitted when B is grounded. This test was done by connecting the ALDL to my PC using Procom terminal software. All I got was unreadable data . It appeared in about 3 paragraph chunks that repeated over and over. I'd be willing to bet that it's ASCII. I tried different setting but never got anything readable. GM computers can only transmit data ( up to '92 I think) What's needed to crack the code is a program that reads a serial data line and prints it as raw binary data. Then, any electronic hacker worth his weight in semiconductors can figure out what's going on. I'm still assuming it's ASCII though, I sure as hell don't know for sure. If one of our suave programmers can write the program, I would be willing to connect it to my hardware and share the information that the ECM regurgitates. If anybody's interested, the program needs to do the following in general: Read pin #3 of a RS232 port Determine the frequency of the incoming transmission (show us just how clever you can be) Collect a few paragraphs (ugh pages?) of data Print the data to an ASCII data file, line by line in the following format 101000110111001110000111110100101110001010101010001110001001 inform the user of the calculated transmission frequency The user then pulls up the ASCII data file in a word processor and tries to assemble it . 3 endings are possible. *The code is cracked and we will be immortal in the eyes of all GM car owners. * The code is cracked and GM marks us for termination. *We can't make heads or tails of the data and admit defeat. PS a company called DIACOM makes software that can read the serial data and print the engine diagnostic information to a IBM PC/AT via RS232 for $300.00 800-888-4146 >Pin Function >A Ground >B ALDL Diagnostics >C >D >E serial data >F >G >H not used >J not used >K not used >L not used >M serial data > > The connector pinout is arranged in this fashion: [This is true] > F E D C B A > G H J K L M > gmd@tecinfo.com > > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 12:50:22 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA24908; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:44:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA24903; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:44:53 -0500 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id HAA12403; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:44:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:44:50 -0500 Message-ID: <960125074449_406009787@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi cc: ravalent@liii.com Subject: Re: Identify This ECM Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Identify This ECM Date: 96-01-24 23:52:31 EST From: ravalent@liii.com (Bob Valentine) > Can anyone identify it from these numbers: > Service Number: 1227165 > Sticker on ROM: Delco ABYA 5400 > Sticker inside box: 5088365 > Barcoded sticker on harness connector: 310038212158301 > Are there any simple tests I can do on the unit to see if it's alive, > aside from powering it up and hooking up a check light? I don't have > access to a TPI car to try it in. Bob, That service number ECM is used in 86-89 Camaro TPI's and maybe Corvettes from the same era. I don't know from the ABYA whether it is 305/350, standard or automatic, but if you could send me the code, I could look at it and tell you what it was intended for, and also whether the PASSKey is enabled. (If so, you would have to substitute the PASSKey signal, or modify the EPROM.) The 89 models did not use the cold start injector, and would not have the 9th injector connection in the harness. The 86-88 models did use a cold start injector. All model years 86-89 also used a MAF, not a MAP sensor. If you are looking for a cleaner looking installation, I would consider using a MAP based system. If you have DIACOM, power the unit up and see if it communicates! Otherwise, it is hard to tell just from the CEL the exact status of the ECM. Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 13:52:08 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA25041; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:45:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from magicnet.magicnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id IAA25036; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:45:14 -0500 Received: from ns.magicnet.net (pm1-01.magicnet.net [204.96.116.51]) by magicnet.magicnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA27259; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:45:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199601251345.IAA27259@magicnet.magicnet.net> X-Sender: pjwales@mailhost.magicnet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:44:29 -0500 To: diy_efi, hotrod@dsea.com, DIY_EFI From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Identify This ECM Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The ABYA 5400 Eprom goes into a 1987 Camaro L98 Motor 5.7l MFI MD8 Transmission, 4spd Auto Axle GH3 2.77:1 What else do you needto know? Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" Superchips home page with all the answers http://www.superchips.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 14:39:06 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA25312; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:30:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA25307; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:30:01 -0500 From: FIScot@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA11611 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:30:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:30:00 -0500 Message-ID: <960125092959_406065021@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subj: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Date: 96-01-25 08:09:17 EST From: gmd@tecinfo.com (george dailey) > Dan, I also wish to crack the enigma of the GMC CCC serial data > protocol. Here is what I know. Listed below is the "official" pin > description from Chilton repair manuals. Notice that GM does not > distinguish between M and E. One source has wrote that M is used in > conjunction with E for 'high speed communication'. NOT! My '89 350 > TPI set up did not have an E connection, just an empty slot. This > leads me to believe that it is E or M and not both. My personal tests > indicate that serial data will only be transmitted when B is grounded. > This test was done by connecting the ALDL to my PC using Procom > terminal software. All I got was unreadable data . It appeared in > about 3 paragraph chunks that repeated over and over. I'd be willing > to bet that it's ASCII. I tried different setting but never got > anything readable. GM computers can only transmit data ( up to '92 I > think) I understand why you (and others) are having a hard time! ;-) This is not a flame, but there is *ALOT* of misinformation in the previous paragraph. The 89 Camaro can do BOTH slow and fast ALDL speeds. When you ground the ALDL pin B, the ECM goes into slow ALDL mode. In that mode it is only transmitting data at the slow rate. (Unless of course if you ground the pin while already in the fast mode, then it ignores the ALDL pin.) C3 ECMs can only transmit, and only in the slow mode. The fast ALDL is limited to the P4 and newer ECMs. P4 and above require much more knowledge to get the ALDL data. Basically, the E pin is slow data, and the M pin is fast data. But this too is not hard and fast. Sometimes both are connected together. In the above case, the fast and slow data are both on pin M. To enter fast ALDL mode, you have to listen to the ECM, wait for the correct data to be sent, and send it the correct message that it is expecting. Won't spit out all that data without it! But even this is not universal. I have seen a P4 that only transmits in fast mode, and does not receive. The data is not in ASCII, but regular 8-bit (mostly) unsigned integers. There are some 16-bit values that come out. The factory service manual explains alot of what the data is that comes out, and all you who want to figure this out need to RTM. > What's needed to crack the code is a program that reads a serial data > line and prints it as raw binary data. Then, any electronic hacker > worth his weight in semiconductors can figure out what's going on. I'm > still assuming it's ASCII though, I sure as hell don't know for sure. I think it is much easier to read the EPROM, figure out the code, and then know what is going on. > If one of our suave programmers can write the program, I would be > willing to connect it to my hardware and share the information that the > ECM regurgitates. If anybody's interested, the program needs to do the > following in general: [text deleted] > The user then pulls up the ASCII data file in a word processor and > tries to assemble it . 3 endings are possible. > * The code is cracked and we will be immortal in the eyes of all GM car > owners. > * The code is cracked and GM marks us for termination. > * We can't make heads or tails of the data and admit defeat. I'll bet #3. > PS a company called DIACOM makes software that can read the serial data > and print the engine diagnostic information to a IBM PC/AT via RS232 > for $300.00 800-888-4146 For 300 USD you will spend a lot less overall to just buy it! How many hours will it take to figure it out? A mere 500/600 hours of labor? This is 50 cents an hour. You better be doing it for the love of it. Also, remember the code changes model to model, year to year... There are too many variables..... Buy DIACOM and save some grief, unless you like to hack..... now that is another story! Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 14:41:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id OAA25326; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:38:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linet01.li.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA25321; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:38:03 -0500 Received: from lisuser31.li.net (lisuser31.li.net [199.173.74.131]) by linet01.li.net (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA28488 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:38:03 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:38:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199601251438.JAA28488@linet01.li.net> X-Sender: jgn@li.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: jgn@li.net (John G. Napoli) Subject: Re: Engine Reversal and EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Reverse-spin motors also need provision for distributor thrust. I believe that this is handled by reversing the cut of the gear on the cam and a 'reversed' dist drive gear. > >On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Clinton L. Corbin wrote: > >> >down. Often twin engine installations in boats run the engines in >> >opposite directions, so you might look into SBC marine setups to see if >> >a reverse direction engine is produced, and what they've done to >> >support it. >> > >> >/Bill > >> My understanding of the twin (and triple) engine installations in off-shore >> power boats is that both (or all three) engines turn in the same direction. >> The only difference is that the outdrive (be it sterndrive, v-drive, or >> other) is geared for reverse rotation. Just my two bits... > > I've seen it done both ways, but most commonly one motor is >reversed. Every reverse-rotation Crusader marine engine I've seen is >PLASTERED with caution stickers about its rotation and not to set the >timing too far back. > > A marine mechanic I spoke to said the only difference between a CW >and a CCW motor was the cam and the starter - makes sense. He also >mentioned that the reverse motors usually had a hotter cam since they >didn't make as much power as their normal rotation cousins. > > --> Bob Valentine <-- > --> ravalent@liii.com <-- > "Clinging Tenaciously to the Trailing Edge of Technology" > > Napoli From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 15:46:35 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id PAA27065; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:33:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.oeonline.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA27060; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:33:48 -0500 Received: from oeonline.oeonline.com by mail.oeonline.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0tfTc5-00047OC; Thu, 25 Jan 96 10:29 EST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:31:28 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Wesley - SLIP X-Sender: mwesley@oeonline.oeonline.com To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: RE: Cyberdyne A/F meter In-Reply-To: <199601241937.OAA03255@gradlab10.me.mtu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Timothy Coste wrote: > Hey Mike, > > Be careful at 9:1. I was flipping through our Horiba manual and > it says that the sensor life can be measured in tens of hours when > run that rich. I can't quote the numbers right now (it was actually > late last week I was reading up on it) but the way rich running > just kills the poor suckers. And our university budget can't take > replacing $900 sensors once a week. Hopefully your budget is better > than ours though. :) Just though I'd mention it in case you weren't > aware. Yeah, the UEGO's don't live too long under extreme conditions. When I was at Ford, we could only use them for 3 hours with continuos operation at WOT and then they would go south. I wrote some software for Ford that would control the dyno sweeping fuel and spark at WOT to find MBT, BDL and LBT so we would be at WOT for extended periods. For my racing company, I normally use my Bosch LA2 with the LSM11 sensor. It can take more abuse and is quite accurate except for extreme lean conditions. Plus I can tap into the LSM11 output and feed that into the EEC-IV so it can use the LSM11 for closed loop and I can monitor lambda. Saves me from having to put an extra bung in the exhaust. I should have a low cost A/F ratio tool available real soon. Just finshing up the temperature compensation. Good from 9:1 to 24:1, datalogs A/F, RPM and spark advance for analysis, and it's cheap >$700! Mike... From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 16:31:50 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA27382; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:23:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA27367; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:17:29 -0500 Received: by basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk (MX V4.1 VAX) id 62; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:16:52 +0000 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:16:50 +0000 From: pmc1eng@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk To: diy_efi Message-ID: <0099CEC8.FF02FAAF.62@basil.acs.bolton.ac.uk> Subject: RE: Simulating an IC engine ... Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu I'm using a 4 stroke engine simulator software for my graduation project. It's called "Dynomation" and there's a demo version available at: www.public.iastate.edu/~punk/dynomation/dma.html Pedro Costa (MadMax) From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 17:04:25 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id QAA27433; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:50:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from xmission.xmission.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA27428; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:50:37 -0500 Received: from xmission.xmission.com ([204.228.138.67]) by xmission.xmission.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA06355; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:50:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:50:28 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199601251650.JAA06355@xmission.xmission.com> X-Sender: lndshrk@xmission.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Land Shark Subject: Re: Re Lambda Sensors Cc: sian@mail.bogo.co.uk Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 11:58 AM 1/25/96 GMT, you wrote: >I measured the values of Voltage by comparing the lanbda display using a >Bosch Motorsport lambda conditioning module which is horrendously expensive >and is used by most major racing teams not to mention O.E. manufacturers all >over the world. > >The table is for an isolated ground (4 wire) NTK EGO sensor. I repeat this >table is only valid for the above sensor. Thanks for the table .. TWO QUESTIONS though :) 1) Isn't the "voltage vs. Lambda" somewhat dependent on the temp of the sensor and if so, how is that controlled to eliminate that variable.. 2) WHICH NTK (ala NGK) sensor is it?? do you have a PART # for me (please please) Oh (OK it was really 3 questions ;) how expensive IS a Bosch system?? I'm looking for a really DECENT lambda measuring device ... Jim From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 17:24:53 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id RAA27491; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:15:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gwa.ericsson.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA27486; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:15:21 -0500 Received: from mr2.exu.ericsson.se (mr2.exu.ericsson.com [138.85.147.12]) by gwa.ericsson.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA01671 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:12:10 -0600 (CST) Received: from exucom.exu.ericsson.se (root@exucom.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.1.10]) by mr2.exu.ericsson.se (8.7.1/NAHUB-MR1.1) with SMTP id LAA29044 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:12:09 -0600 (CST) Received: from b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (eusmsrt@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.20.125]) by exucom.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA09730 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:12:08 -0600 From: Markus Strobl Received: (eusmsrt@localhost) by b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA05161 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:12:07 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:12:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199601251712.LAA05161@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > PS a company called DIACOM makes software that can read the serial data and > print the engine diagnostic information to a IBM PC/AT via RS232 for $300.00 > 800-888-4146 Yes, but doesn't the diacom package contain some kind of interface box? I know GM PCMs use a weird speed, 8192. BTW, if anyone has ANY info on the new OBDII boxes (ie how to communicate with them), PLEASE drop me a line. I would love to hook up my PC to it. Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 20:02:35 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id TAA28428; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:52:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uswat.advtech.uswest.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA28423; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:52:43 -0500 Received: from egate.mnet.uswest.com ([151.116.23.138]) by uswat.advtech.uswest.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA02880 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:52:36 -0700 (MST) Received: from centhub (centhub.mnet.uswest.com [151.116.23.137]) by egate.mnet.uswest.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA18555 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:00:23 -0700 (MST) Received: by centhub.mnet.uswest.com (M-Net Hub.951228) Received: from sp5-316.nts.uswest.com by cp.uswc.uswest.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA20975; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:50:19 -0700 Received: by sp5-316.nts.uswest.com (5.0/SMI-SVR4) id AA06762; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:50:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:50:19 -0700 From: scicior@cp.uswc.uswest.com (Steve Ciciora) Message-Id: <9601251950.AA06762@sp5-316.nts.uswest.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > From owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Thu Jan 25 12:42 MST 1996 > From: Markus Strobl > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:12:07 -0600 > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A > > > PS a company called DIACOM makes software that can read the serial data and > > print the engine diagnostic information to a IBM PC/AT via RS232 for $300.00 > > 800-888-4146 > > Yes, but doesn't the diacom package contain some kind of interface box? I > know GM PCMs use a weird speed, 8192. > Well, it acutally hooks up to the parallel port. And the instructions imply that the software has to initialize the hardware molded into the specialized cable. Have not gotten around to look at what goes in and out of this cable yet, since I no longer need to home-brew an ALDL interface. The only reason I can think of for there to be hardware in the cable is so that my 4.77 MHZ laptop can still read in 8192 baud data. I imagine a faster computer can just pole the parallel port and read in the data that way. > BTW, if anyone has ANY info on the new OBDII boxes (ie how to communicate > with them), PLEASE drop me a line. I would love to hook up my PC to it. > > Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M > -Steven Ciciora From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 20:59:17 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id UAA28706; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:47:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail11.digital.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA28701; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:47:39 -0500 From: m_mcdonald@marx.ENET.dec.com Received: from us1rmc.bb.dec.com by mail11.digital.com (5.65v3.2/1.0/WV) id AA15709; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:32:12 -0500 Received: from marx.enet by us1rmc.bb.dec.com (5.65/rmc-22feb94) id AA11510; Thu, 25 Jan 96 15:17:34 -0500 Message-Id: <9601252017.AA11510@us1rmc.bb.dec.com> Received: from marx.enet; by us1rmc.enet; Thu, 25 Jan 96 15:32:48 EST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 15:32:48 EST To: diy_efi Cc: eusmsrt@exu.ericsson.se, m_mcdonald@marx.ENET.dec.com Apparently-To: eusmsrt@exu.ericsson.se, diy_efi Subject: Re: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A; DIACOM and OBD-II questions Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >> PS a company called DIACOM makes software that can read the serial data and >> print the engine diagnostic information to a IBM PC/AT via RS232 for $300.00 >> 800-888-4146 This is an excellent software package. A demonstration diskette is available for $5.00 from DIACOM's manufacturer, Rinda Technologies in Chicago. It's also available as a download from Compu$erve. Once logged in there -- either GO AUTO or GO AUTOS, select For Techs Only, and look for library files with the keyword DIACOM. BTW, the DIACOM cable connects to a PC's parallel port instead of to a serial port. > Yes, but doesn't the diacom package contain some kind of interface box? I > know GM PCMs use a weird speed, 8192. The DIACOM hardware/software package is complete. It takes care of weird speeds such as 8192 baud. > BTW, if anyone has ANY info on the new OBDII boxes (ie how to communicate > with them), PLEASE drop me a line. I would love to hook up my PC to it. I'm pretty sure that DIACOM software will handle the new OBD-II hardware and software combination. If you want to make your own package, begin by purchasing the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) document with OBD-II standards. It's a maroon-covered manual with a number of HS-3000 or HS-3500. The SAE is in Warrendale, Pennsylvania with an area code of 412. The manual costs either $45.00 (ouch!) or $65.00 (ouch! ouch!), but it contains the information you need. For example, I recall reading that the OBD-II data stream is 10400 baud and 8/N/1. > Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M Marll McDonald KB1AGM 1993 Ford Escort 1.9L, 1940 Ford coupe with flathead V-8 engine m_mcdonald@marx.enet.dec.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 21:10:13 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id VAA28865; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:01:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gwa.ericsson.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA28860; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:01:07 -0500 Received: from mr2.exu.ericsson.se (mr2.exu.ericsson.com [138.85.147.12]) by gwa.ericsson.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA09596 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:01:06 -0600 (CST) Received: from exucom.exu.ericsson.se (root@exucom.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.1.10]) by mr2.exu.ericsson.se (8.7.1/NAHUB-MR1.1) with SMTP id PAA02047 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:01:05 -0600 (CST) Received: from b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (eusmsrt@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.20.125]) by exucom.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA26168 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:01:02 -0600 From: Markus Strobl Received: (eusmsrt@localhost) by b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA05220 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:00:58 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:00:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199601252100.PAA05220@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A; DIACOM and OBD-II questions Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Thank's for your reply. > I'm pretty sure that DIACOM software will handle the new OBD-II hardware > and software combination. I've been told that it doesn't work for OBDII. Does Rinda tech have a e-mail address? Or phone #? > If you want to make your own package, begin by > purchasing the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) document with > OBD-II standards. It's a maroon-covered manual with a number of HS-3000 > or HS-3500. The SAE is in Warrendale, Pennsylvania with an area code of > 412. The manual costs either $45.00 (ouch!) or $65.00 (ouch! ouch!), but ouch, ouch, ouch! > it contains the information you need. For example, I recall reading that > the OBD-II data stream is 10400 baud and 8/N/1. ^^^^^ Where do they get those baudrates from? I'm I right in assuming a standard PC serial port can't read that speed? If so, what kind of HW would be needed to interface? Once the HW connection is made, it shouldn't be that hard to communicate, since OBDII PCMs have to follow the offocial standard. Atleast that's what I hope.. > > Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M > Marll McDonald KB1AGM Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 23:04:29 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id WAA29485; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:54:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA29479; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:51:57 -0500 Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.2 VAX) id 458; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:50:17 MST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:50:16 MST From: DAN FURGASON To: DIY_EFI Message-ID: <0099CEC5.49446A02.458@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: aldl data stream Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The ALDL for my 89 Suburban is a continuous 160 bit/sec bit stream. It begins with a sync character of 9 consecutive "1" s. Each subsequent byte begins with a "0" and then the 8 data bits. The stream continues until all data is read. Another sync character is sent and the stream repeats with updated values. If you program in C++ there is a printer status call to read the parallel port, so the code to get the data is really easy(timing is a pain). Among other things, o2, throttle pos, and map are in the data stream. Dan Furgason From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 23:19:38 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA29532; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:12:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gwa.ericsson.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA29515; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:08:00 -0500 Received: from mr2.exu.ericsson.se (mr2.exu.ericsson.com [138.85.147.12]) by gwa.ericsson.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA14022 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:07:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from exucom.exu.ericsson.se (root@exucom.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.1.10]) by mr2.exu.ericsson.se (8.7.1/NAHUB-MR1.1) with SMTP id RAA03506 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:07:58 -0600 (CST) Received: from b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (eusmsrt@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se [138.85.20.125]) by exucom.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA05308 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:07:57 -0600 From: Markus Strobl Received: (eusmsrt@localhost) by b01e25.exu.ericsson.se (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA05271 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:07:55 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:07:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199601252307.RAA05271@b01e25.exu.ericsson.se> To: diy_efi Subject: Diacom, OBDII interface (was Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > PS a company called DIACOM makes software that can read the serial data and > > > print the engine diagnostic information to a IBM PC/AT via RS232 for $300.00 > > > 800-888-4146 > > > > Yes, but doesn't the diacom package contain some kind of interface box? I > > know GM PCMs use a weird speed, 8192. > > > Well, it acutally hooks up to the parallel port. And the instructions > imply that the software has to initialize the hardware molded into the > specialized cable. Have not gotten around to look at what goes in and > out of this cable yet, since I no longer need to home-brew an ALDL interface. > The only reason I can think of for there to be hardware in the cable is > so that my 4.77 MHZ laptop can still read in 8192 baud data. I imagine > a faster computer can just pole the parallel port and read in the data > that way. Could you please explain more about this. I'm no wizard when it comes to parallel ports. What is meant by poling the port? And how do they adapt the parallel port to a serial interface? I bet the cable could be duplicated for a few bucks, and if someone can explain what it does, I'd be happy to experiment on this. Markus From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jan 25 23:42:26 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id XAA29571; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:31:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA29566; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:31:31 -0500 Received: from ptp18.tecinfo.com (ptp18.tecinfo.com [206.30.166.252]) by ns.tecinfo.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA23168 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:26:16 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:26:16 -0600 Message-Id: <199601252326.RAA23168@ns.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: george dailey Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 11:12 AM 1/25/96 -0600, you wrote: >Yes, but doesn't the diacom package contain some kind of interface box? I >know GM PCMs use a weird speed, 8192. > >Markus Strobl 96 Z28 6M > >Mark, from what I have seen in advertisements, the interface connector is so small, that if any electronics are used, they are very few, very small, and probably consist of protection devices if they exist at all. The interface was dirt simple. An ALDL on one end and a RS232 DB9 connector on the other. No external power supply leads. George M. Dailey GMD@tecinfo From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 00:36:24 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA29682; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:28:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA29677; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:28:07 -0500 Received: from ptp19.tecinfo.com (ptp19.tecinfo.com [206.30.166.253]) by ns.tecinfo.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA23406 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:22:46 -0600 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:22:46 -0600 Message-Id: <199601260022.SAA23406@ns.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: george dailey Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu At 09:30 AM 1/25/96 -0500, you wrote: RTM > >What GM service manual do I need to purchase? The last time I went to my GM dealer I asked about a service manual and was told they could not get service manuals. What's the part number? BTW, When I was trying to defeat the vats system, several GM service and parts people said they never herd of a VATS module. gmd@tecinfo way down south in Greenville, Mississippi > > > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 00:54:29 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id AAA29720; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:41:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wotan.compaq.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA29715; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:41:48 -0500 From: SRavet@bangate.compaq.com Received: from twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com(really [131.168.254.216]) by wotan.compaq.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 25 Jan 96 18:41:46 -0600 (CST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.2 built 17-jan-96) Received: from bangate.compaq.com(really [131.168.114.234]) by twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 25 Jan 96 18:41:46 -0600 (CST) (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.1 built 17-jan-96) Received: by bangate.compaq.com; Thu, 25 Jan 96 18:41:42 CST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 96 18:41:40 CST Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: Subject: re: Diacom, OBDII interface (was Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Markus Strobl Wrote: | | > > > PS a company called DIACOM makes software that can read the serial data | and | > > > print the engine diagnostic information to a IBM PC/AT via RS232 for | $300.00 | > > > 800-888-4146 | > > | > > Yes, but doesn't the diacom package contain some kind of interface box? I | > > know GM PCMs use a weird speed, 8192. | > > | > Well, it acutally hooks up to the parallel port. And the instructions | > imply that the software has to initialize the hardware molded into the | > specialized cable. Have not gotten around to look at what goes in and | > out of this cable yet, since I no longer need to home-brew an ALDL interface. | > The only reason I can think of for there to be hardware in the cable is | > so that my 4.77 MHZ laptop can still read in 8192 baud data. I imagine | > a faster computer can just pole the parallel port and read in the data | > that way. | | Could you please explain more about this. I'm no wizard when it comes to | parallel ports. What is meant by poling the port? And how do they adapt | the parallel port to a serial interface? I bet the cable could be duplicated | for a few bucks, and if someone can explain what it does, I'd be happy to | experiment on this. | | Markus | First off, the ALDL connector uses TTL positive logic voltage levels (5v=1, 0v=0). The serial port on the PC uses RS-232 voltage levels, (-13V=1, +13V=0). So the serial line from the ALDL cannot just be connected directly to the serial port of the PC. You could get a level inverter/shifter (MAX 232?) and produce the proper voltage levels for your serial port, but now you have the problem that 8192 is a non-standard baud rate. You can program you PC to 8192 is 8228, which is probably close enough. So that would work, except that earlier GM ECMs are 160 baud and some non-standard format that isn't RS-232. So Diacom connects the ALDL serial port to a PC parallel port. How does that work? the logic voltage levels on some of the printer port pins can be read directly by software thru an I/O port. Diacom implements a software UART. The software polls the printer port until it sees the start bit, then it collects the other bits using the computers timer to tell when they are on the line. This works without any hardware for any type of data stream, which is why they use it. You plug in the VIN, and Diacom knows what type of baud rate to expect from that. I hate posting stuff from old memory, but I can't find my J1850 (OBD-II) article. So here's what I remember about it: it supports two data rates, I think 1MB/s and 2MB/s. It is not even close to RS-232 regardless of the data rate, so it'll never hook to a serial port. Harris (and maybe others) make a two chip set for it, one is the basic data framer, the other is an 8152 clone with OBD-II intelligence built in. Steve Ravet sravet@bangate.compaq.com Baby you're a genius when it comes to cooking up some chili sauce... From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 03:32:39 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA00094; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:23:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA00089; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:23:40 -0500 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA07680; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:24:50 -0500 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA01188; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:22:21 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:22:21 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Valentine To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Engine codes for '84 T/A In-Reply-To: <199601251217.GAA20831@ns.tecinfo.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Dan, I also wish to crack the enigma of the GMC CCC serial data protocol. > and not both. My personal tests indicate that serial data will only be > transmitted when B is grounded. This test was done by connecting the ALDL > to my PC using Procom terminal software. All I got was unreadable data . > It appeared in about 3 paragraph chunks that repeated over and over. I'd be > willing to bet that it's ASCII. I tried different setting but never got > anything readable. GM computers can only transmit data ( up to '92 I think) I can't find it, but I had a old, old, OLD mail note that said the baud rate is 8192, and that can be obtained by changing the crystal on a old serial port board (XT type). > If one of our suave programmers can write the program, I would be willing > to connect it to my hardware and share the information that the ECM Mabye one of the RS232 hackers can figure out what crystal to choose. 8^) > gmd@tecinfo.com --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation" From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 04:00:22 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id DAA00181; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:53:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pine.liii.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA00172; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:53:46 -0500 Received: from oak.liii.com by pine.liii.com with SMTP (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA08040; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:55:08 -0500 Received: by oak.liii.com (5.67b/15Feb94-Long Island Information) id AA02191; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:52:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:52:39 -0500 (EST) From: Bob Valentine To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Identify This ECM In-Reply-To: <199601251345.IAA27259@magicnet.magicnet.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Can anyone identify it from these numbers: Service Number: 1227165 Sticker on ROM: Delco ABYA 5400 Sticker inside box: 5088365 Barcoded sticker on harness connector: 310038212158301 Scot Sealander wrote: > Bob, That service number ECM is used in 86-89 Camaro TPI's and maybe > Corvettes from the same era. I don't know from the ABYA whether it is > 305/350, standard or automatic, but if you could send me the code, I > could look at it and tell you what it was intended for, and also > whether the PASSKey is enabled. (If so, you would have to substitute > the PASSKey signal, or modify the EPROM.) Ummmm... what code are you looking for? > cold start injector. All model years 86-89 also used a MAF, not a MAP > sensor. If you are looking for a cleaner looking installation, I would > consider using a MAP based system. > Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com And Peter Wales wrote: > The ABYA 5400 Eprom goes into a 1987 Camaro > L98 Motor 5.7l MFI > MD8 Transmission, 4spd Auto > Axle GH3 2.77:1 > What else do you need to know? Easy way to see if it's alive, without a scan tool, Diacom, or car to throw it in. I'm gonna fire it up tonight and see what the idiot light does. If it does live, does anyone have a stock MAP Eprom they want to get rid of? Would make the installation much easier. Does changing throttle body sizes have any effect on the calibration of the unit? Where it's going I would NOT be using the factory style TPI throttle body. Since this box would be going on a Olds motor, and the original TPI motor had a electronic distributor, would I be able to just hook the newer distributor module to the Olds pickup (It's got a standard HEI in it now) to get the right signals for the ECM? Does the TPI distibutor have a Hall Effect unit in it? > Peter Wales Thanks guys... I got the replies before my message even showed up! --> Bob Valentine <-- --> ravalent@liii.com <-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 08:04:23 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id HAA00744; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 07:48:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ix12.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA00739; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 02:48:01 -0500 Received: from by ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id XAA17961; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:47:54 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:47:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199601260747.XAA17961@ix12.ix.netcom.com> From: arthurok@ix.netcom.com (ARTHUR OKUN ) Subject: Re: Identify This ECM To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu You wrote: > > > Can anyone identify it from these numbers: > > Service Number: 1227165 > Sticker on ROM: Delco ABYA 5400 > Sticker inside box: 5088365 > Barcoded sticker on harness connector: 310038212158301 > >Scot Sealander wrote: > >> Bob, That service number ECM is used in 86-89 Camaro TPI's and maybe >> Corvettes from the same era. I don't know from the ABYA whether it is >> 305/350, standard or automatic, but if you could send me the code, I >> could look at it and tell you what it was intended for, and also >> whether the PASSKey is enabled. (If so, you would have to substitute >> the PASSKey signal, or modify the EPROM.) > > Ummmm... what code are you looking for? > >> cold start injector. All model years 86-89 also used a MAF, not a MAP >> sensor. If you are looking for a cleaner looking installation, I would >> consider using a MAP based system. > >> Scot Sealander FIScot@aol.com > >And Peter Wales wrote: > >> The ABYA 5400 Eprom goes into a 1987 Camaro >> L98 Motor 5.7l MFI >> MD8 Transmission, 4spd Auto >> Axle GH3 2.77:1 > >> What else do you need to know? > > Easy way to see if it's alive, without a scan tool, Diacom, or car to >throw it in. I'm gonna fire it up tonight and see what the idiot light does. > > If it does live, does anyone have a stock MAP Eprom they want to get >rid of? Would make the installation much easier. > > Does changing throttle body sizes have any effect on the calibration >of the unit? Where it's going I would NOT be using the factory style TPI >throttle body. > > Since this box would be going on a Olds motor, and the original TPI >motor had a electronic distributor, would I be able to just hook the >newer distributor module to the Olds pickup (It's got a standard HEI in >it now) to get the right signals for the ECM? Does the TPI distibutor >have a Hall Effect unit in it? > >> Peter Wales > > Thanks guys... I got the replies before my message even showed up! > > --> Bob Valentine <-- > --> ravalent@liii.com <-- > > > you can get an map updated chip from your local gm dealer for under $50 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 09:33:49 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id JAA00888; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:27:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA00882; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:26:57 -0500 Received: from process.paume.itb.ac.id (process.paume.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.106]) by maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA15859 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:35:54 +0700 Received: from PROCESS/SpoolDir by process.paume.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Fri, 26 Jan 96 16:25:34 +0700 Received: from SpoolDir by PROCESS (Mercury 1.12); Fri, 26 Jan 96 16:25:21 +0700 From: "Dari Anis" To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:25:18 +007 Subject: Re: Identify This ECM X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Message-ID: <119515294C@process.paume.itb.ac.id> Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Date sent: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 08:44:29 -0500 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu, hotrod@dsea.com, DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: pjwales@magicnet.net (Peter Wales) Subject: Re: Identify This ECM Send reply to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu The ABYA 5400 Eprom goes into a 1987 Camaro L98 Motor 5.7l MFI MD8 Transmission, 4spd Auto Axle GH3 2.77:1 What else do you needto know? Peter Wales President Superchips Inc Florida Chairman Superchips Ltd Buckingham "Timing is everything" Superchips home page with all the answers http://www.superchips.com I want to know about MFI. What kind of processor do you use? - anis - From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 11:26:44 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id LAA01070; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:16:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gatekeeper.vs-ulm.dasa.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA01065; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 06:16:05 -0500 Received: from VS2E2/SpoolDir by magic.vs-ulm.dasa.de (Mercury 1.21); 26 Jan 96 12:13:57 -0100 Received: from SpoolDir by VS2E2 (Mercury 1.21); 26 Jan 96 12:13:41 -0100 From: "Joachim Glasstetter" To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:13:41 +0000 Subject: RCPT: Re: Identify This ECM Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Message-Id: Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 26 Jan 96 16:25 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Identify This ECM Was read at 12:13, 26 Jan 96. =================================================== Dipl.-Ing. Joachim Glasstetter VS2E22 Daimler-Benz Aerospace AG Woerthstrasse 85 89077 Ulm Germany Tel. +49 731 392 4731 '70 VW Beetle Fax +49 731 392 4958 '92 VW POLO G40 '83 VW POLO GT =================================================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 12:55:43 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id MAA01214; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 12:47:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uga.cc.uga.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA01209; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 07:47:56 -0500 Received: from bmesun1.MCG.EDU by uga.cc.uga.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 26 Jan 96 07:47:06 EST Received: from [] ([158.93.51.164]) by bmesun1.MCG.EDU (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06756; Fri, 26 Jan 96 07:50:26 EST Message-Id: <9601261250.AA06756@bmesun1.MCG.EDU> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "David M Parrish" To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 07:55:45 +0000 Subject: RCPT: Re: Identify This ECM Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10) Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Confirmation of reading: your message - Date: 26 Jan 96 16:25 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Identify This ECM Was read at 7:55, 26 Jan 96. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jan 26 13:09:35 1996 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA01247; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:02:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from svcs1.digex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA01242; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:02:46 -0500 Received: from ns.digex.net (dcc11784.slip.digex.net [205.197.200.191]) by svcs1.digex.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11218 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:02:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3108D0FE.303A@access.digex.net> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:02:54 -0500 From: Bill Lewis X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: SSI 67F687 References: <199601261000.KAA00961@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-