From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 10:20:55 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA22246; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:10:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi id GAA22236; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:10:07 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 06:10:07 -0400 From: jsg (John S Gwynne) Message-Id: <199707011010.GAA22236@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Subject: [admin] List services (automated monthly post) Apparently-To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi This message is post monthly as a reminder of the available list services. For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu. To post: Send to "[list name]@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if different than your "From" address] To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if different than your "From" address] The archive to each mailing list is available through the following sources: 1) WWW. http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 2) ftp. ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ 3) Majordomo. Send "index [list name]" to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu. You will find a file "archive_date_index" whose contents show the period covered by each of the archive files "archive_num_*". Digest mode is available for each mailing list. Send "lists" to Majordomo for a listing a mailing lists served. To switch to the digest mode, unsubscribe from the regular list and then subscribe to the digest version (i.e., diy_efi-digest). WWW site (for diy_efi and efi332): http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/ Please send information to be added to this posting to jsg@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu. John From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 13:30:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA22726; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:18:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA22721; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:18:28 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr4-dialup60.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with ESMTP id <01IKPTX57TNY96Y7L6@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:17:51 EDT Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 09:13:18 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: TPI on a 6cyl To: diy_efi Message-id: <01IKPU07MIHG96Y7L6@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Greetings, I have a Buick 3.8L engine bagged from a FWD Buick LeSabre, which has the same ECM and basic wiring harness as the Buick GN. I have confirmed this with someone who works for Buick, and take him at his word explicitly. There are minor emission-hose differences according to the Chilton's manuals I have, however they are very minor. Most of the differences are internal to the engine, such as cam-lobe sizing, bearing sizes, bolt pattern on the back of the block (The GN uses a RWD style block, and the LeSabre uses a FWD style block), the heads are different, and of course, the code within the ECM are different. What's a little known fact is some of the internals are completely swappable, according to what I've found from several machine shops in the area as well as a local GM dealer. I'm :at some point: going to take this little FWD 3.8L and replace some of the internals with GN aftermarket parts, and build a high-performance engine. There are many, many sites on the web that talk about GN engines, and the 3.8L FWD upgrades (such as adding a turbo), as well as the new generation 3800II engine. Search infoseek for 'Buick 3.8L' and you will receive a lot of hits... I'd pass along my Internet Explorer "favorites" list, however my machine at work was recently "upgraded" to the corporate standard desktop, which required the LAN guys to reformat my disk without asking. Best of luck! Frederic J. Breitwieser Jr. Homebrew Automotive Mailing List http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html Bridgeport, Connecticut USA ---------- ---------- > Are you saying that the GN system is the same as other buick 6cyl FI > systems of the same time period with just a different EPROM?I don't know > much about different GM systems and the years and models during which > things changed. I just know a little about TPI systems since there is so > much on the web and in catalogs for those things. I have also seen > numerous sites on Buick turbos, but figured it was a special system for > GN. > Is the MAF different between GNs and non turbo buicks? Do non turbo > buicks have the distributorless ignitions? > I am interested in something REALLY common, so that I can get it from > the local junkyard CHEAP! From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 13:30:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA22828; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:21:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.tctc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA22823; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:21:04 -0400 Received: from moh (dial1-6.tctc.com [205.243.39.6]) by linux.tctc.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29017 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:21:01 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970701132859.006871d4@tctc.com> X-Sender: moh@tctc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:28:59 -0500 To: diy_efi From: Mark Subject: Re: Jaguars Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 08:23 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install >tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is >http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just >like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > >Vance > >PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source for >sending unit? Hi vance, I tried the url but no luck. Could you verify or correct it if it's wrong? I sure would appreciate it. TIA Mark> From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 13:54:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA22962; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 13:43:51 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melbourn.webrider.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA22947; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:43:02 -0400 Received: from dialup.webrider.net.au (port2-annex1.webrider.net.au [203.25.112.102]) by melbourn.webrider.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA23128 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:51:17 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33B905BB.16C8@webrider.net.au> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 23:27:23 +1000 From: Alex Organization: WebRider Internet Access User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: '89 Firebird ECM PROM References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Re John Hess John, The IC you are talking about is an 128K CMOS EEPROM. If you have a look at any EEPROM manufactures data books you will find that they are 'garden variety' chips. Regards Alex From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 15:08:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA23208; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:55:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from michelle.cobweb.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA23203; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:55:38 -0400 Received: from annex3p13.cobweb.net by michelle.cobweb.net (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/07Aug96-0824PM) id AA15936; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:56:26 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970701105207.007a2150@mail.cobweb.net> X-Sender: blazer40@mail.cobweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 10:52:07 -0400 To: diy_efi, diy_efi From: Matt Teagarden Subject: Re: Jaguars In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970701132859.006871d4@tctc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi it's http://www.jagsthatrun.com -Matt >I tried the url but no luck. Could you verify or correct it if it's wrong? >I sure would appreciate it. TIA >Mark> (-/---------------------\ | / | | | |\ | / |_________| |_______| \__|________ | ____ ____ | | / \ Chevrolet / \ | [|___/ OO \________________/ 00 \___|] 0000 0000 00 00 Matt Teagarden Blazer40@cobweb.net Pittsburgh, PA Http://www.cobweb.net/~blazer40 1985 406V8 S-Blazer From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 15:31:55 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA23350; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:22:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gaia.imes.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA23345; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:22:14 -0400 Received: from elvis (auspc149.imes.COM) by gaia.imes.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA17175; Tue, 1 Jul 97 08:23:15 PDT Message-Id: <9707011523.AA17175@gaia.imes.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "steve ravet" To: Jennifer Rose , diy_efi Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:58:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Jaguars Priority: normal In-Reply-To: <199707010323.UAA18742@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:23:31 -0700 (PDT) > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > From: Jennifer Rose > Subject: Jaguars > Reply-to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He > install > tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb > page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated > with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 > into s-10s. > > Vance > > PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source > for sending unit? > the WWW page is www.jagsthatrun.com I also recommend his books, I have the S-10 one and the general TPI one. Couldn't have done my S-10 swap without it. --steve From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 16:14:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA23677; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:59:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dewey.mindlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA23672; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:59:17 -0400 Received: from facts [204.174.29.11] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wj5Kl-0003Zd-00; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:59:16 -0700 Message-ID: <33B92890.632@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 08:56:00 -0700 From: Terry Martin Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: '89 Firebird ECM PROM References: <33B905BB.16C8@webrider.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Alex wrote: > > Re John Hess > > John, The IC you are talking about is an 128K CMOS EEPROM. If you have a > look at any EEPROM manufactures data books you will find that they are > 'garden variety' chips. > > Regards Alex I had a peek into one with a microscope, and it was etched "TI" Texas Instuments, 27C128, which is a UV type EPROM not an EEPROM. However, if you are thinking of hacking the code, or modifying it, the information you require is available from the diy_efi site, through one or another of the regulars. Hope it helps. Terry From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 19:23:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA25149; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:09:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA25144; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:08:56 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22844 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id MAA28887; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:08:38 -0700 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:08:38 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: fuel rail needed In-Reply-To: <33B8A57E.4E79@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, Ed wrote: > Isn't the MSD fuel rail tubular, rather than the usual rectangular rail > found on most EFI applications? > > -Ed ya it's different allright. Anybody got any experience with this kind of rail? Pro's/con's anybody? jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 19:40:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA25266; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:27:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA25261; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:27:36 -0400 Received: from computor (ppp-206-170-171-75.scrm01.pacbell.net [206.170.171.75]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.8.5/8.7.1+antispam) with ESMTP id MAA04728 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33B95A07.542EFE6B@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 12:27:04 -0700 From: Mark Romans X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Jaguars X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <9707011523.AA17175@gaia.imes.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi steve ravet wrote: > > Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:23:31 -0700 (PDT) > > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > From: Jennifer Rose > > Subject: Jaguars > > Reply-to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > > > Hi Thomas > > > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He > > install > > tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb > > page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated > > with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 > > into s-10s. > > > > Vance > > > > PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source > > > for sending unit? > > > > the WWW page is www.jagsthatrun.com > > I also recommend his books, I have the S-10 one and the general TPI > one. Couldn't have done my S-10 swap without it. > > --steve Hi All; I bought JTR's book and it is good. It gives you a lot of info that would cost a lot of $ to learn the hard way. I also have done two Jag XJ sed engine conversions. I used kits from John's Cars in TX. His kits are the best. Months ago I saw a thread on this list that said his kits are too expensive. BS. If you pay yourself $3.00/Hr you will come out ahead by buying his kit. John's Cars can be reached at 1-800-866-5247. I know I've built two. You can learn the expensive way if you want. My 2 cents worth. Mark. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 19:40:35 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA25277; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 19:30:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA25272; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:30:29 -0400 Received: from LMTAS_Net.lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA20448; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:29:31 -0500 Message-ID: <33B95ABF.2384@lmtas.lmco.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 14:30:07 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Organization: Lockheed Martin Tactical Aerospace Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi, boughton@bignet.net Subject: RE: Big overlap cams and EFI References: <199707010024.AAA20610@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi `From: James Boughton `Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:06:34 -0400 `Subject: RE: Big overlap cams and EFI `[ snip] ` There are also any number of diagnostic routines that may be effected = `by the change in idle MAP. Did the PROM burner guy give you any more of = `a hint as to what the problem is that arises from longer cams? `Jim Boughton `boughton@bignet.net `Owner - Boughton Engine Systems Technology (B.E.S.T.) Thanks for the input. This digital info is what I'm lacking in. As if I could do something with it at this time. No, the guy at Turbo City wasn't that helpful with that kind of info. Being a mechanical type and trying to retain as much unaltered electronic equipment as possible, I was thinking along the lines of trying to dampen the vacuum signal mechanically. A resevoir or orifice or both, but thought this would also slow down the signal during off idle situations. On a nonemisson application, why couldn't the idle fuel flow be set at a specific injector dwell dependent on just the engine temp and maybe also the intake air temp, if available? Joe Boucher '70 Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 1 22:00:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA25531; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:47:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from odin.cair.du.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA25526; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:47:20 -0400 Received: by odin.cair.du.edu; id AA27138; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 (MDT) From: John Haag X-Sender: jhaag@odin.cair.du.edu To: DIY_EFI Subject: TPI and Jags That Run Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I'm new to the list and a ROOKIE with a lot to learn about EFI but wanted to comment about the actual conversion of a car to a TPI engine (not the EFI part of the conversion). After a lot of research and large amounts of hindsight, I'd recommend John's Cars as well. I have an 89 Firebird TPI engine in a '79 Datsun 280ZX. My conversion is working out well but it would have been a lot easier/quicker (I think) if I dealt with John's. The Jags That Run book is great but it didn't cover the later model Datsun 280 ZX in much detail. A lot of the info was relevant but John's seems to have the right parts already engineered and available for purchase. And please---this is no knock on the Jags book! I wouldn't recommend a conversion without it. Virtually everyone who has done a Datsun conversion would strongly agree about the value of the book. Just my opinion John Haag Denver, CO From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 01:29:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA26153; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:16:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mars.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA26148; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:16:50 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (d105.t1.tecinfo.com [208.143.106.239]) by mars.tecinfo.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00944 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:16:46 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:16:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707020116.UAA00944@mars.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "George M. Dailey" Subject: Re: Jaguars Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Where are those speedometers located. I must have a coupple. GMD At 08:23 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install >tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is >http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just >like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > >Vance > >PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source for >sending unit? > > > George M. Dailey gmd@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 03:08:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA26395; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:04:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from auth.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA26389; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:04:50 -0400 Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [206.245.192.1]) by auth.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA25407 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from javer96 (ppp189.snowcrest.net [207.201.19.45]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA28648 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 20:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707020304.UAA28648@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: RE :JTR Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi all Thanks for correct url for JTR :). Couldn't remember right url. Aside from napa, GM connectors are available from AVECO in larger quanities. Peeked in catalog from are fastener salesgal. Just need to find out how to get a hold of them direct. Thanks Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 03:09:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA26400; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:05:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wilhelm.baps.BoM.GOV.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA26394; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:04:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199707020304.XAA26394@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: from platypus.baps.BoM.GOV.AU by wilhelm.baps.BoM.GOV.AU with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA13385; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:04:29 +1000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Stuart Baly" To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:04:23 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Fuel line, fittings Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I've just got myself the injection hardware off an import L18 Nissan engine, with a view to fitting it to my Datsun 1600. At the moment, I'm getting the parts together for the fuel supply. My problem is that the supply and return lines to the fuel rail were cut, so they haven't got those nice little flared collars near the ends to clamp the fuel hose over. Is there a special tool that can form these collars, perhaps a brake line flaring tool, or is there another way? Also, in a similar vein, intake pipework on a turbo engine is under pressure. When making this pipework from stainless tube, how are the ends formed to give the connecting hoses a secure grip? =========================================== Stuart Baly (s.baly@bom.gov.au) Technical Officer Cape Grim Baseline Air Pollution Station Cape Grim, Tasmania, Australia =========================================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 03:20:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA26443; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:16:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA26438; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:16:21 -0400 From: prusch@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA20571 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: from por-or14-23.ix.netcom.com(205.184.181.87) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020544; Tue Jul 1 22:16:10 1997 Message-ID: <33B9C5F8.1CF@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:07:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Jaguars References: <199707010323.UAA18742@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Jennifer Rose wrote: > > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > > Vance > >I purchased the Z car V-98 conversion from him and did the conversion. His books are well written and informative. My V-8 swap can be seen at.... WWW.DATSUNS.COM Look under. . . "CARS" "Pauls Modified 280 Z" Paul Ruschman 75 280 ZR1 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 03:20:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA26457; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:17:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA26448; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:16:58 -0400 From: prusch@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA20620 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from por-or14-23.ix.netcom.com(205.184.181.87) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020582; Tue Jul 1 22:16:51 1997 Message-ID: <33B9C5F8.1CF@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:07:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Jaguars References: <199707010323.UAA18742@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Jennifer Rose wrote: > > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > > Vance > >I purchased the Z car V-98 conversion from him and did the conversion. His books are well written and informative. My V-8 swap can be seen at.... WWW.DATSUNS.COM Look under. . . "CARS" "Pauls Modified 280 Z" Paul Ruschman 75 280 ZR1 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 03:20:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA26458; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:17:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA26446; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:16:58 -0400 From: prusch@ix.netcom.com Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA20614 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:16:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: from por-or14-23.ix.netcom.com(205.184.181.87) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma020579; Tue Jul 1 22:16:39 1997 Message-ID: <33B9C5F8.1CF@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 20:07:36 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Jaguars References: <199707010323.UAA18742@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Jennifer Rose wrote: > > Hi Thomas > > Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. > > Vance > >I purchased the Z car V-98 conversion from him and did the conversion. His books are well written and informative. My V-8 swap can be seen at.... WWW.DATSUNS.COM Look under. . . "CARS" "Pauls Modified 280 Z" Paul Ruschman 75 280 ZR1 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 04:00:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA26574; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 03:51:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from iquest3.iquest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA26569; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:51:56 -0400 Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 23:51:56 -0400 Message-Id: <199707020351.XAA26569@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: (qmail 21230 invoked from network); 2 Jul 1997 03:45:11 -0000 Received: from and-002-22.iquest.net (HELO speartec.iquest.net) (206.53.241.118) by iquest3.iquest.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 1997 03:45:11 -0000 X-Sender: speartec@pop.iquest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: john spears Subject: RE: TPI on a 6cyl Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi It's a better idea to try to match cylinder displacement to the TPI system, then an overall system horsepower rating. I think with the stock calibrations, it's more like injector size vs. cylinder displacement as opposed to hp rating. The number of cylinders the TPI ECM is controlling is selectable in the PROM, so this should not be a problem. If the engine uses a variable reluctance 6X distributor, then using an HEI / EST ignition module, makes the interface between your engine and the TPI ECM pretty straightforward. Minor differences in individual cylinder sizing can be handled with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Depending on your manifold design, the fueling won't be "perfect", but you can get fairly close. The TPI manifold is incredibly efficient between 2000 and 3500 rpm, so this is reflected in the fueling characteristics of the stock calibration. Just a few thoughts on the subject. John Spears Speartech Fuel Injection Systems From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 05:03:43 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA26784; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 04:55:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA26779; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 00:55:34 -0400 Received: from [207.147.234.61] by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA4437 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 04:55:32 +0000 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970702045943.007031bc@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: e.schumacher@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 21:59:43 -0700 To: diy_efi From: eric schumacher Subject: Re: Fuel line, fittings Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Some thing to think about. I do a lot of this kind of stuff regard mixing and matching fittings. Asystem I have worked out over the years is to cut two fittings in half and silver solder the two halves you want back tohether again. How to bake them beautiful when you are don is a seperate issue. Pain em plait em etc. The end result is typically very good. If nickle plated they are very high class. In the case of your fuel lines I would get the fuel line ends I wanted and splice them to the lines in the car using a sleve over the joint. Silver solder the joint. Aneat way to finish the job is to put heat shrink tube over the splice area. Fast easy and reliable. Silver solder con be done with a Bernz torch. For 20 bucks you can buy a lifetime supply of flux and silver solder. At 01:04 PM 7/2/97 +0000, you wrote: >I've just got myself the injection hardware off an import L18 Nissan >engine, with a view to fitting it to my Datsun 1600. At the moment, >I'm getting the parts together for the fuel supply. My problem is From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 06:05:46 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA26959; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:59:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from edam.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA26954; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 01:59:12 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-08c13.direct.ca [204.174.249.189]) by edam.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id WAA21983 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707020559.WAA21983@edam.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Speedo Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Guys Electronic speedos are in 88 up GMC trucks, and 88 up JCARs.. To drive em you need the mag four pole sender on the tranny and the buffer amp or 30 pole reluctor sendor and a DRAC. The buffer can be found in Fbodys, the drac in trucks.. GL all :peter At 08:16 PM 7/1/97 -0500, you wrote: >Where are those speedometers located. I must have a coupple. >GMD > >At 08:23 PM 6/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi Thomas >> >> Noticed - no one mentioned Mike Knell out here in calif. He install >>tpi v-8s into jags, also has a book on tpi swapping. Think his webb page is >>http:\\www.jtr.com - check it out. BTW i'm not affiliated with him - just >>like his book. Plan on buy the one for swapping v-8 into s-10s. >> >>Vance >> >>PS: bought three of the electronic speedo - any one have good source for >>sending unit? >> >> >> >George M. Dailey >gmd@tecinfo.com > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 13:07:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA27586; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:53:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melete.ch.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA27581; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:53:40 -0400 Received: from chmail.ch.intel.com by melete.ch.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:53:09 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by chmail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id FAA10319 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 05:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.ch.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Wed, 02 Jul 97 05:48:10 PDT Date: Wed, 02 Jul 97 05:52:00 PDT From: Mark Eidson Message-ID: To: DIY_EFI Subject: A question on EFI theory Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Text item: If one were to design a system from scratch and have complete control over fuel maps, etc., could a system be made that measured the MAP between the throttle body and supercharger rather than at the intake manifold? Could the fuel map be designed to compensate for the increased volumetric efficency of the supercharger at a given RPM and MAP? Putting it another way could I use my Holley 4di throttle body on a Whipple supercharger on a small block chevy with the MAP and vacuum taken off the throttle body port rather than the intake manifold? Thanks, me. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Subject: TPI and Jags That Run To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X-Sender: jhaag@odin.cair.du.edu From: John Haag Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by odin.cair.du.edu; id AA27138; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 Received: from odin.cair.du.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.S GI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA25526; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:47 :20 -0400 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA25531; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:47:24 GMT Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:45:29 GMT Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by chm ail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13048 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:33 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 13:15:56 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA27717; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:09:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melbourn.webrider.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA27706; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:08:55 -0400 Received: from dialup.webrider.net.au (port5-annex1.webrider.net.au [203.25.112.105]) by melbourn.webrider.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id XAA09849 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:17:03 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33BA52CA.51BD@webrider.net.au> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 23:08:26 +1000 From: Alex Organization: WebRider Internet Access User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Fuel line, fittings References: <199707020304.XAA26394@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Stuart Baly wrote: > > I've just got myself the injection hardware off an import L18 Nissan > engine, with a view to fitting it to my Datsun 1600. At the moment, > I'm getting the parts together for the fuel supply. My problem is > that the supply and return lines to the fuel rail were cut, so they > haven't got those nice little flared collars near the ends to clamp > the fuel hose over. > Is there a special tool that can form these collars, perhaps a brake > line flaring tool, or is there another way? > Also, in a similar vein, intake pipework on a turbo engine is under > pressure. When making this pipework from stainless tube, how are the > ends formed to give the connecting hoses a secure grip? > =========================================== > Stuart Baly (s.baly@bom.gov.au) > Technical Officer > Cape Grim Baseline Air Pollution Station > Cape Grim, Tasmania, Australia > =========================================== Hello Stuart regards the pressure in the intake plumbing on your new EFI motor, remember that the turbo is pumping at less pressure (?~8 10lbs?)than what is found present inside your engines cooling system (~13-15lbs). Use good hose clamps and tighten them sensibly firm. You could also use a light powered glue if your really worried (ie Aussie Grip from Repco or Burson Auto parts. re your cut fuel rail, just go to the wreckers and cut some off another car, take them to a welders and have them brazed on to your new rails. Simple. Regards and Oh! I bet your 1600 has got plenty of bog in its rear quarters :-) Alex From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 14:55:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA27957; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:45:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from m1.sprynet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA27952; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:45:25 -0400 Received: from mboggs (dd03-010.dub.compuserve.com [199.174.145.10]) by m1.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA12834 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 07:45:22 -0700 Message-Id: <199707021445.HAA12834@m1.sprynet.com> From: "Mark Boggs" To: Subject: Re: A question on EFI theory Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:45:09 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >If one were to design a system from scratch and have complete control over fuel maps, etc., could a system be made that measured the MAP between the throttle body and supercharger rather than at the intake manifold? digressing from your question, a bit... If I had the ability to design from scratch, I would go with something like the "new" FP Performance product that has a wide range O2 sensor and a very quick computer. I'm pretty sure that they also have to use some sort of MAF to measure incoming air flow, too. Being able to run in closed loop at WOT would be the best, I would think. Could this type of system eliminate the need for MAP or is it still necessary to help determine engine load? From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 15:48:45 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA28272; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:43:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailer.fsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA28267; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:42:58 -0400 Received: from garnet.acns.fsu.edu (gmhub.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.10]) by mailer.fsu.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02390 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:42:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garnet1.acns.fsu.edu (garnet1.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.2]) by garnet.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA49210 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:42:56 -0400 Received: from default (xyp41.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.2.61]) by garnet1.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA18701 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:42:54 -0400 Message-ID: <33BA771A.C0F4A311@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 11:43:22 -0400 From: Thomas Wright X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Re: Buick GNs X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <33B91868.C1C@boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Corey L. Cole wrote: > Thomas Wright wrote: > > Are you saying that the GN system is the same as other buick 6cyl FI > > > systems of the same time period with just a different EPROM?I don't > know > > much about different GM systems and the years and models during > which > > things changed. I just know a little about TPI systems since there > is so > > much on the web and in catalogs for those things. I have also seen > > numerous sites on Buick turbos, but figured it was a special system > for > > GN. > > Is the MAF different between GNs and non turbo buicks? Do non turbo > > > buicks have the distributorless ignitions? > > I am interested in something REALLY common, so that I can get it > from > > the local junkyard CHEAP! > > Any information or source of information on different GM systems > > including models and the years of changes on common cars would be > > extremely helpful. > > Thanks > > Tom > > Yes, it's true. The ECM (or PCM :) is the same between turbo and > non-turbo > cars. The non-turbo cars also had the distributorless ignition like > the > GN. I'm not sure about the MAF as to whether or not it's the same > part > on turbo vs. non-turbo. > > Your best bet is to zoom over to the Buick Grand National web page: > http://www.gnttype.org/gnttype/www/ > > I believe there's some parts interchange information there, and you > can search > the archives as well. It's something that's been pretty well hashed > over > several times. > > Good luck, > -- > == > =========================================================================== > > Corey L. Cole | I was standing on the side of the > road, > M/S 19-HH | rain falling on my shoe. > E-mail: corey.l.cole@boeing.com | I was heading for the east coast, > Phone: 206-662-3596 | Lord knows I've paid some dues. > | Tangled up in blue. > ======================================================= > ====================== Hey, Thanks alot for the info! After doing a little research, it seems like this is definitely THE system. Distrubutorless ignition and everything! And finding a regular old 86-87 Buick 3.8 V6 in the junkyard should be easy and cheap. It seems that this system would probably work on my car with my old injectors (plus resister pack) and everything. And there definitely are enough high performance parts out there to expand the system way beyond what I'll ever need. The only tricky parts are the cam AND crank sensors (no such things on my engine, of course.) I have an old distributor that I can modify. But based on what I have read at the various sights I've visited, I am kind of confused. What type of signals do these sensors put out? The consensus seems to be that they are hall effect sensors, but the camshaft sensor is a solid disk with a slot cut in it that the sensor reads. What sort of "hall effect" sensor is this? It sounds more like some sort of optical pickup (you will have to excuse me, but my knowledge of electronic theory is limited to a physics class that was more oriented towards civil engineering. And that was a long time ago!) I am trying to figure out how I am going to duplicate these signals. Are all "magnetic pickups" the same as "hall effect", or are "hall effect" sensors just one type of magnetic pickup or vice versa? Sorry for the stupid questions, Tom From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 2 18:24:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA28798; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 18:12:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA28793; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 14:12:18 -0400 Received: from mweber.interaccess.com (d120.nnb2.interaccess.com [204.149.98.120]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id NAA07884 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:11:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970702131542.0069da64@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: mweber@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 13:15:42 -0500 To: diy_efi From: Michael J Weber Subject: Re: Buick GNs In-Reply-To: <33BA771A.C0F4A311@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> References: <33B91868.C1C@boeing.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > > Hey, >Thanks alot for the info! After doing a little research, it seems like >this is definitely THE system. Distrubutorless ignition and everything! >And finding a regular old 86-87 Buick 3.8 V6 in the junkyard should be >easy and cheap. It seems that this system would probably work on my car >with my old injectors (plus resister pack) and everything. And there >definitely are enough high performance parts out there to expand the >system way beyond what I'll ever need. >The only tricky parts are the cam AND crank sensors (no such things on >my engine, of course.) I have an old distributor that I can modify. >But based on what I have read at the various sights I've visited, I am >kind of confused. What type of signals do these sensors put out? The >consensus seems to be that they are hall effect sensors, but the >camshaft sensor is a solid disk with a slot cut in it that the sensor >reads. What sort of "hall effect" sensor is this? It sounds more like >some sort of optical pickup (you will have to excuse me, but my >knowledge of electronic theory is limited to a physics class that was >more oriented towards civil engineering. And that was a long time >ago!) I am trying to figure out how I am going to duplicate these >signals. Are all "magnetic pickups" the same as "hall effect", or are >"hall effect" sensors just one type of magnetic pickup or vice versa? >Sorry for the stupid questions, >Tom The cam sensor is a hall effect which stays high (above 7.5 Volts) until 25 degrees ATDC of the #1 cylinder. This is used to time the firing of the injectors only it doesn't have anything to do with spark timing. The crank sensor uses a ring with three tabs. Each tab is used to fire two spark plugs, since it is a waste spark system with three coils for six plugs. I don't know how big the tabs are on the crank damper but you can probably get one that would work from a junkyard. Michael J Weber mweber@interaccess.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 03:14:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA29840; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 03:06:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from auth.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA29835; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 23:06:32 -0400 Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [206.245.192.1]) by auth.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id UAA00274 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from javer96 (ppp99.snowcrest.net [207.201.18.131]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA02691 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:06:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707030306.UAA02691@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: Speedo Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi George Speedo is from America Science & Surplus - part number 26134 for $3.75 each. Phone number is 847-982-0870. They have a $10 min order - had to order three. Just got mine today - the're electronic\mechanical face, have odometer, trip. No lit with them, but with just three wire this shouldn't be hard. Still looking for sending unit to fit transfer case. Will visit wrecking to see if Peters hint about j-car will work. My tpi unit needs two pulse per rev. Could fab a divide by two to use newer sending unit. BTW old speedo is very noisy in pu. Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 09:03:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA00436; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:57:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from relay.mod.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA00431; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 04:57:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199707030857.EAA00431@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: from hermes.dra.hmg.gb by relay.mod.uk with local SMTP id ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:57:18 +0100 Received: from taz.dra.hmg.gb by hermes.dra.hmg.gb (MX V4.2 VAX) with SMTP; Thu, 03 Jul 1997 09:57:14 GMT Received: from mareed2.dra.hmg.gb ([146.80.23.150]) by taz.dra.hmg.gb (MX V4.2 AXP) with SMTP; Thu, 03 Jul 1997 09:57:12 GMT Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Mark a Reed" To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:01:08 +0000 Subject: Natural Gas instead of petrol X-Confirm-Reading-To: mareed@dra.hmg.gb X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <33B95A07.542EFE6B@pacbell.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi all, Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure regulator? If the regulation pressure was set correctly then the fuel/air mixture could be set to allow the use of existing mixture maps in the EFI system. Is this feasible or a wild dream ? Mark Reed Farnborough UK mareed@dra.hmg.gb From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 09:23:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA00529; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:17:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melbourn.webrider.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA00521; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 05:16:32 -0400 Received: from dialup.webrider.net.au (port2-annex1.webrider.net.au [203.25.112.102]) by melbourn.webrider.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA24975 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:25:18 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33BB6DDD.62CB@webrider.net.au> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:16:13 +1000 From: Alex Organization: WebRider Internet Access User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: 68__xx Assembler Progs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Some body recently asked about assembler programs for the 6801(?). Try this link... ftp://ftp.ee.ualberta.ca/pub/cookbook/softw/ibm/index.html Regards Alex From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 10:29:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA00649; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:22:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melbourn.webrider.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA00644; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:21:48 -0400 Received: from dialup.webrider.net.au (port2-annex1.webrider.net.au [203.25.112.102]) by melbourn.webrider.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA25640 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 20:30:51 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33BB7D4D.36FF@webrider.net.au> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 20:22:05 +1000 From: Alex Organization: WebRider Internet Access User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol References: <199707030857.EAA00431@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Mark a Reed wrote: > > Hi all, > > Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting > the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure > regulator? > > If the regulation pressure was set correctly then the fuel/air > mixture could be set to allow the use of existing mixture maps in the > EFI system. > > Is this feasible or a wild dream ? > > Mark Reed > Farnborough UK > > mareed@dra.hmg.gb %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Hi Mark Your idea may be hard to put into practice. A wild dream; maybe not because men do fly to the moon and yet they said it was impossible once..... Normally, the gas must go from its cylinder (liquid storage=very cold), to a convertor (liquid gas heated by eng. coolant to become gas as we know it), and then to a mixing ring where it is allowed to evenly disperse into the incomming air supply. If you were to inject the gas as a liquid it will cause freezing problems around your fuel rail and who knows how it will respond once inside the cylinder. It doesn't go 'bang' as well as pump gas when in its gaseous state so it will probably react even worse if injected as a liquid. BUT!!! if you work out a way to do it you will make a cool fortune. Regards Alex. PS An old mate of mine became a diesel mech. He said once that on some trucks they use LPG in a similar manner to the way 'petrol heads' use NO2 in cars. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 10:56:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA00714; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:53:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gate.volvo.se by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA00708; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:53:02 -0400 Received: by gate.volvo.se; id MAA11535; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:52:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from unknown(131.97.124.70) by gate.volvo.se via smap (3.2) id xma011522; Thu, 3 Jul 97 12:52:40 +0200 Received: from spf01.got.vtc.volvo.se by nike.volvo.se with ESMTP (8.6.12/1.37) id MAA02743; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:52:40 +0200 Received: from spf100.vtc.volvo.se (spf100.got.vtc.volvo.se [131.97.20.6]) by spf01.got.vtc.volvo.se (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA19592 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:52:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from bd2107.got.vtc.volvo.se by spf100.vtc.volvo.se (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA25746; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:49:27 +0200 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:49:27 +0200 Message-Id: <199707031049.MAA25746@spf100.vtc.volvo.se> X-Sender: t031740@vtcpop.got.vtc.volvo.se X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Marek Niemand Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi No way it will work. The ECU is programmed to make injectors deliver just right amount of fuel at right time for every possible load/speed point. In principle lenght and timing of an electical pulse to injectors spill valve controlls this. That in its turn is dependant on hydraulic behavior of the injectors and fuel system. So, besides the mechanical conversions including special tank,valves, pipes and so on, you would have to remapp the entire ECU. It is much easier to convert carburated engine. Regards. Marek At 10:01 1997-07-03 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting >the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure >regulator? > >If the regulation pressure was set correctly then the fuel/air >mixture could be set to allow the use of existing mixture maps in the >EFI system. > >Is this feasible or a wild dream ? > >Mark Reed >Farnborough UK > >mareed@dra.hmg.gb > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 11:29:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id LAA00849; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:22:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailgw00.execpc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA00844; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:22:53 -0400 Received: from mail.execpc.com (mail [169.207.16.2]) by mailgw00.execpc.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id GAA16163 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:22:52 -0500 Received: from default (brontosaurus.mdm.mke.execpc.com [169.207.68.99]) by mail.execpc.com (8.8.6/8.8.3) with SMTP id GAA16103 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:22:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970703062111.00b0263c@mail.execpc.com> X-Sender: zurlo@mail.execpc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 06:21:11 -0500 To: diy_efi From: Jim Zurlo Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol In-Reply-To: <199707031049.MAA25746@spf100.vtc.volvo.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 12:49 PM 7/3/97 +0200, you wrote: >Hi >No way it will work. >The ECU is programmed to make injectors deliver just right amount of fuel at >right time for every possible load/speed point. >In principle lenght and timing of an electical pulse to injectors spill >valve controlls this. >That in its turn is dependant on hydraulic behavior of the injectors and >fuel system. >So, besides the mechanical conversions including special tank,valves, pipes >and so on, you would have to remapp the entire ECU. >It is much easier to convert carburated engine. >Regards. Marek > There is a product from DAI called the translator that changes the mapping based on whether gasoline or natural gas is being used. I understand it has problems with the transient enrichment, but works OK under steady state conditions. Jim Z. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 12:02:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id LAA00922; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:56:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA00916; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 07:56:44 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id GAA16864 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:56:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pat-nj3-25.ix.netcom.com(204.31.242.121) by dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma016860; Thu Jul 3 06:56:39 1997 Message-ID: <33BB9468.78CB@ix.netcom.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 08:00:40 -0400 From: Dan Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol References: <199707030857.EAA00431@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi How about the common forklift that uses propane. Can the system be adapted for your use? I think the forklifts use the propane in its liquid state. If have wondered if a car having problems passing emissions might be able to run dual purpose propane/natural gas or gasoline. Just switch the fuel when needed. Dan L > Hi all, > > Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting > the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure > regulator? > > If the regulation pressure was set correctly then the fuel/air > mixture could be set to allow the use of existing mixture maps in the > EFI system. > > Is this feasible or a wild dream ? > > Mark Reed > Farnborough UK > > mareed@dra.hmg.gb From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 13:49:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA01366; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:42:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uia.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA01361; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:42:43 -0400 Received: from hh1123174.direcpc.com (157.22.213.107) by uia.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:42:49 -0700 From: "Robert Harris" To: Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 06:40:50 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1344210327-9593749@uia.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi LPG (Propane), and CNG (Natural Gas) both boil at ridiculously low temperatures - and are normally used as dry vapors and blended by an additional mixer. Kits are available cheap to convert just about anything - except maybe your vintage Stanley Steamer - to either dual fuel or dedicated gas. The conversions use outputs from the existing EFI and EGO to feedback and optimize both mixture and timing for the carb. Both gas's run extremely clean - but in a dual fuel, most states require you to pass emissions on both fuels. A friendly smog check station may allow you to switch fuels, but the same station might just enter your numbers and stick the sensor up the shop goat's tailpipe. The main problems with conversions is that Propane has more energy per pound than gasoline, but less pounds per gallon, so mileage goes down. Even more so with CNG. Cost on propane has skyrocketed recently so it is generally not as cost effective as CNG which is being heavily promoted by your local gas company. On the good side, both feature high octane - well above the best pump gas - and make excellent hi-performance fuels. Of course there is the matter of the extremely "crude" carburetor ("mixer") that seems to disgust most liquidphiles. Before you run your mouth ("Contempt before Investigation") based on liquid fuels you should know that NO liquid device - not even EFI comes any where close to being as efficient a mixer as a gas carb. Simple physics. If the liquid "boils" at minus ridiculous, then you are always dealing with a dry, 100% homogenous mixture. Cold starting and warm-up enrichment? Not needed - waste of time - complete proper mixture already. Accelerator pump (transit circuit)? Useless. Dry homogenous fuel does not "drop out' or refuse to vaporize under vacuum change" Altitude and temperature compensation. Useless. Mixer meters dry vapor fuel with dry air by pressure thru carb. Roughly right thru all normal temp and altitudes. Manifolds for "good" fuel/air distribution? Anything your EFI can use, so can propane or CNG - not a thang - and no heat EVER is needed to "Vaporize" fuel. Set up of a gas carb is knuckle dragging simple. Set mixture screw and idle speed. done. Kits available from MSD to optimize spark for dual fuel applications. Electronic feedback from the existing EFI is used to "optimize" the mixture so the frigging smog shit still works - primarily the cat's. On non smog motors, can be combined with wide range exhaust sensor and have adjustable mixture. OBTW, propane in a well built engine, runs just fine extremely lean - like 18 or 19 to one. Lean mixtures run cooler than rich mixtures, so it aint no thang. Last, the major problem with injection is the fuel is stored in a liquid form well above its free air boiling point controlled by pressure. Any metering device that lowers the pressure will flash vaporize the fuel. Excess fuel (bypass) must then be pressurized to significantly higher pressure (and temp) before it can re-liquidify and be returned to the storage tank. A lot of work is going on in this area, but IMHO it is simply turd polishing as you accomplish 99.9% of EFI goals with a simple carb and feedback, but then, what the hell - most of us (myself included) like to complicate shitting. If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. Robert Harris ---------- > From: Dan > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol > Date: Thursday, July 03, 1997 5:00 AM > > How about the common forklift that uses propane. Can the system be > adapted for your use? I think the forklifts use the propane in its > liquid state. If have wondered if a car having problems passing > emissions might be able to run dual purpose propane/natural gas > or gasoline. Just switch the fuel when needed. > > Dan L > > > > Hi all, > > > > Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting > > the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure > > regulator? > > > > If the regulation pressure was set correctly then the fuel/air > > mixture could be set to allow the use of existing mixture maps in the > > EFI system. > > > > Is this feasible or a wild dream ? > > > > Mark Reed > > Farnborough UK > > > > mareed@dra.hmg.gb From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 15:43:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA01940; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:34:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA01935; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:34:31 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr9-dialup59.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with ESMTP id <01IKSR9WXUN296YEC2@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:32:38 EDT Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 09:56:37 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol To: diy_efi Message-id: <01IKSRARUTZW96YEC2@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting > the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure > regulator? Its of my opinion that a ::conversion:: would be more effort than its worth, as LPG and Gasoline have different combustion temperatures, different ability to do work, different oxygen requirements. However, here in NYC there are plenty of LPG city transit buses that utilize a fuel injected LPG system. So its not a pipe dream, its a reality. But. Do we as consumers have access to tanks of LPG? Is it cost effective? What about performance? These are very important trade-offs to consider. However it does burn cleaner :) You'd need to research the combustability of LPG and its O2 requirements, and from there, figure out the injectors to be used, the mappings of LPG to O2 for different RPM/speeds, and go from there! Frederic J. Breitwieser Jr. Homebrew Automotive Mailing List http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html Bridgeport, Connecticut USA From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 16:55:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA02165; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:48:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from statler.cc.wwu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA02160; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:48:55 -0400 Received: by statler.cc.wwu.edu (5.65/WWU-M1.0/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA10922; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:48:52 -0700 Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:48:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol In-Reply-To: <199707030857.EAA00431@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Mark a Reed wrote: > Hi all, > > Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting > the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure > regulator? Strictly speaking, no. But with an appropriate fuel rail, and appropriately sized natural gas injectors, and some dynamic modification of acceleration enrichment, it works very well. We have an injected natural gas Dodge Neon here at the VRI. It passed the ULEV emissions standard, which I don't think any production gasoline engnie car has done yet. Once the correctly sized injectors were sources, the adaptive ecu worked with the CNG quite well. And the rail presure is set at about 150 psig. The CNG is never a liquid in pur tanks, even at 3600 psig. Liquid NG requires lower temperatures, and that means a vacuum flask. We used carbon fiber and polyethylene tanks. I think Literider is the brand. The car runs great with the o2 sensor adjustment that I posted to the group about a month ago, and a circuit to reduce the apparent throttle position input acceleration in order to reduce acceleration enrichment. Without this, it will go too rich on acceleration and will even quit. One other thing, the ignition timing is considerably advanced. If NOX emissions are not a problem, then a higher compression ratio works well. We used 14:1 without a problem, with ignition timing near stock. Without this CR increase, the advance (static) was in excess of 30 degrees, if I remember correctly. > > If the regulation pressure was set correctly then the fuel/air > mixture could be set to allow the use of existing mixture maps in the > EFI system. > > Is this feasible or a wild dream ? > > Mark Reed > Farnborough UK > > mareed@dra.hmg.gb > Good luck, Seth Allen From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 17:47:33 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA02352; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:42:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailer.fsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA02347; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:42:31 -0400 Received: from garnet.acns.fsu.edu (gmhub.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.10]) by mailer.fsu.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03265 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (garnet2.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.3]) by garnet.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA58503 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:42:29 -0400 Received: from default (xyp98.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.2.118]) by garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA93505 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 13:42:28 -0400 Message-ID: <33BBE49F.C4157895@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 13:42:55 -0400 From: Thomas Wright X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: GM ECMs and harnesses X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Does any body know what the part number is for the ECM on a 1992 to @1995 Chevy V6 4300? Will it physically plug into a V8 TPI harness? I was thinking about the possibility of using a GM CPI system (chevy V6 4300 version of TPI) on my 6cyl car. I noticed that there are many aftermarket V8 TPI harness for sale for not very much money, that are designed for custom (hot rod, off road, etc.) installations (unnecessary crap eliminated) for relatively cheap. It might be worth the money for a good, new harness, without the hassle of untangling a fatigued, baked harness from a wreck. But all the aftermarket harnesses are for V8 TPIs. I would need to modify it to work with a V6 system and computer. Does anybody know if this is possible (I mean easy - anything is possible)? Thanks, Tom Wright From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 19:08:17 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA01067; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:02:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wakko.efn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA01062; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 15:02:44 -0400 Received: from charlesm (dynip92.efn.org [204.214.97.92]) by wakko.efn.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA11243 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 12:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970703190022.00dd96f8@mailhost.efn.org> X-Sender: cmorgan@mailhost.efn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 12:00:22 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Charles Morgan Subject: Re: GM ECMs and harnesses Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 01:42 PM 7/3/97 -0400, you wrote: >Does any body know what the part number is for the ECM on a 1992 to >@1995 Chevy V6 4300? Will it physically plug into a V8 TPI harness? >I was thinking about the possibility of using a GM CPI system (chevy V6 >4300 version of TPI) on my 6cyl car. I noticed that there are many >aftermarket V8 TPI harness for sale for not very much money, that are >designed for custom (hot rod, off road, etc.) installations >(unnecessary crap eliminated) for relatively cheap. It might be worth >the money for a good, new harness, without the hassle of untangling a >fatigued, baked harness from a wreck. But all the aftermarket harnesses >are for V8 TPIs. I would need to modify it to work with a V6 system and >computer. >Does anybody know if this is possible (I mean easy - anything is >possible)? Tom, Fuel Injection Specialties will make a 4.3L CPI wiring harness for you. The 4.3L CPI engine is not true TPI--it uses only a single injector ('92-'95), with pressure operated poppet valves at each cylinder. You didn't say what kind of 6cyl engine you have now, but I'm not sure the CPI manifold would fit anything other than a 4.3L engine. Even then I'm not sure it would fit a carbureted or TBI 4.3L--the CPI block is somewhat different to accomodate a balance shaft. Charlie Morgan From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 21:42:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA00781; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:37:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from random.tpgi.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA00776; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 17:37:47 -0400 Received: from jalbury (gou-ppp-075.tpgi.com.au [203.29.140.75]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA08356 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:37:09 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33BC1B73.2007@tpgi.com.au> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 07:36:51 +1000 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: IM BACK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi HI TO ALL OUT IN CYBERLAND IVE BEEN OFF LINE FOR A FEW WEEKS NOW DUE TO A MEGA CRASH....AND A BIT OF EXTRA WORK.......NOW THE PROBLEM IS IVE LOST ALL MY OLD EMAIL...YOU KNOW THE FEELING EH! ANYWAY IVE ALSO LOST MY EMAIL ADDRESS FOR A FEW OF YOU GUYS AND IVE GOT SOME STUFF THAT HAS TO BE EMAILED OVER (THE PINOUTS FOR THE AUSTRALIAN CARS THAT RUN THE DELCO 808 P4) MOST OF THE STUFF ON MY HD WAS BACKED UP SO I DIDNT LOOSE TOO MUCH, BUT ONE THING THAT I DID LOOSE WAS MY COPY OF DIACOM .....HAS ANY BODY GOT A COPY THAT THEY CAN SEND ME???? (IVE LOST THE BLOKES ADDRESS WHO WAS KIND ENOUGH TO POST IT LAST TIME ) I FINALY GOTEN A HOLD OF SOME INTERFACE PLANS THAT ARE MENT TO WORK WITH IT BUT NOW I DONT HAVE THE PROG....SO I STILL DONT KNOW IF THE USA VIN'S ARE COMPATABLE WITH OUR AUSTRALIAN CARS....... THANKS TO ALL JUSTIN jalbury@tpgi.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 23:38:20 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA01089; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:32:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mars.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA01084; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:32:51 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (d73.t1.tecinfo.com [208.143.106.205]) by mars.tecinfo.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA09132 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:32:48 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:32:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707032332.SAA09132@mars.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "George M. Dailey" Subject: Re: Speedo Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Thanks Vance. BTW, have you thought about securing small magnets to the drive shaft and using a distributer pickup coil? gmd At 08:06 PM 7/2/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi George > > Speedo is from America Science & Surplus - part number 26134 for >$3.75 each. Phone number is 847-982-0870. They have a $10 min order - had to >order three. Just got mine today - the're electronic\mechanical face, have >odometer, trip. No lit with them, but with just three wire this shouldn't be >hard. Still looking for sending unit to fit transfer case. Will visit >wrecking to see if Peters hint about j-car will work. My tpi unit needs two >pulse per rev. Could fab a divide by two to use newer sending unit. BTW old >speedo is very noisy in pu. > >Vance > > > George M. Dailey gmd@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 3 23:42:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA01123; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:40:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailer.fsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA01118; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:40:10 -0400 Received: from garnet.acns.fsu.edu (gmhub.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.10]) by mailer.fsu.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA13455 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:40:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (garnet2.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.3]) by garnet.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA127634 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:40:08 -0400 Received: from default (xyp98.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.2.118]) by garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA83458 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 19:40:07 -0400 Message-ID: <33BC3871.67888959@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> Date: Thu, 03 Jul 1997 19:40:34 -0400 From: Thomas Wright X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: GM ECMs and harnesses X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <1.5.4.32.19970703190022.00dd96f8@mailhost.efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Charles Morgan wrote: > At 01:42 PM 7/3/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Does any body know what the part number is for the ECM on a 1992 to > >@1995 Chevy V6 4300? Will it physically plug into a V8 TPI harness? > >I was thinking about the possibility of using a GM CPI system (chevy > V6 > >4300 version of TPI) on my 6cyl car. I noticed that there are many > >aftermarket V8 TPI harness for sale for not very much money, that are > > >designed for custom (hot rod, off road, etc.) installations > >(unnecessary crap eliminated) for relatively cheap. It might be > worth > >the money for a good, new harness, without the hassle of untangling > a > >fatigued, baked harness from a wreck. But all the aftermarket > harnesses > >are for V8 TPIs. I would need to modify it to work with a V6 system > and > >computer. > >Does anybody know if this is possible (I mean easy - anything is > >possible)? > > Tom, Fuel Injection Specialties will make a 4.3L CPI wiring harness > for you. > The 4.3L CPI engine is not true TPI--it uses only a single injector > ('92-'95), with pressure operated poppet valves at each cylinder. You > > didn't say what kind of 6cyl engine you have now, but I'm not sure the > CPI > manifold would fit anything other than a 4.3L engine. Even then I'm > not > sure it would fit a carbureted or TBI 4.3L--the CPI block is somewhat > different to accomodate a balance shaft. > > Charlie Morgan Yep, I just found that out after going to the public library and checking out the Chilton manuals. It was actually on the Fuel Injection Specialties site that I read "Another system was introduced in 1992 called Central Port Injection ... This system is the equivalent of the TPI for the V6 ..." I guess I misinterpreted them. Tom Wright PS. my engine is a Jaguar straight 6 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 01:22:31 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA01634; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:18:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from auth.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA01628; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:18:21 -0400 Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net (mtshasta.snowcrest.net [206.245.192.1]) by auth.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with ESMTP id SAA00278 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from javer96 (ppp64.snowcrest.net [207.201.18.80]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA07984 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 18:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707040118.SAA07984@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: Magnets Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi George Have heard of that idea before - just like to keep things as neat as practical. My pu is a 4x4 and i have been known to actually use the 4 x part. Wanted to remove old speedo gear\cable adaptor from transfer case slip in newer(different)sending unit. rewire vss to tpi\cruise and be done. To answer other question about appearence - unit looks like a normal mech speed from front. About 4 x 6 inches, 10-160 mph\20-260 kmh, odometer and tirp odometer - three wire hookup. Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 04:35:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA00573; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 04:29:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wagner.mtco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA00568; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 00:29:22 -0400 Received: from 169-82-69.ipt.aol.com (169-82-69.ipt.aol.com [152.169.82.69]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.8.5/8.5.9) with SMTP id XAA08744 for ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:13:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 23:13:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707040413.XAA08744@wagner.mtco.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.mtco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: A question on EFI theory Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > >Text item: > > > >If one were to design a system from scratch and have complete control over fuel >maps, etc., could a system be made that measured the MAP between the throttle >body and supercharger rather than at the intake manifold? Could the fuel map be >designed to compensate for the increased volumetric efficency of the >supercharger at a given RPM and MAP? > >Putting it another way could I use my Holley 4di throttle body on a Whipple >supercharger on a small block chevy with the MAP and vacuum taken off the >throttle body port rather than the intake manifold? > >Thanks, me. > It is possible, but if it were me, and I was designing a EFI system (and I have) I would place a pressure tap after the blower to connect the map sensor. You can still use the holley throttle body and injectors. But using a reference in this way will make tuning a whole lot easier. David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 08:03:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA00864; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:56:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mulder.rce.ricardo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA00859; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 03:56:15 -0400 Received: by mulder.rce.ricardo.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:55:18 +0100 Message-ID: From: Andrew Rabbitt To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Natural Gas instead of petrol Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:56:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > But. Do we as consumers have access to tanks of LPG? Is it cost > effective? What about performance? These are very important > trade-offs to > consider. However it does burn cleaner :) > This is a myth. It only burns 'cleaner' when you get ti set up right. If you don't it can produce as much CO and HC (and NOx) emissions as anything else. Also, in many countries, LPG is a widely used fuel, therefore conversion kits and fuel are readily available. Andrew Rabbitt From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 08:04:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA00878; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:00:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mulder.rce.ricardo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA00873; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 04:00:07 -0400 Received: by mulder.rce.ricardo.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:59:20 +0100 Message-ID: From: Andrew Rabbitt To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: IM BACK Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:00:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi seems that the caps-lock got stuck during the crash too! > ---------- > From: Justin Albury[SMTP:jalbury@tpgi.com.au] > Sent: 04 July 1997 07:06 > To: DIY_EFI > Subject: IM BACK > > HI TO ALL OUT IN CYBERLAND > > IVE BEEN OFF LINE FOR A FEW WEEKS NOW DUE TO A MEGA CRASH....AND A BIT > OF EXTRA WORK.......NOW THE PROBLEM IS IVE LOST ALL MY OLD EMAIL...YOU > KNOW THE FEELING EH! ANYWAY IVE ALSO LOST MY EMAIL ADDRESS FOR A FEW > OF > YOU GUYS AND IVE GOT SOME STUFF THAT HAS TO BE EMAILED OVER (THE > PINOUTS > FOR THE AUSTRALIAN CARS THAT RUN THE DELCO 808 P4) > > MOST OF THE STUFF ON MY HD WAS BACKED UP SO I DIDNT LOOSE TOO MUCH, > BUT > ONE THING THAT I DID LOOSE WAS MY COPY OF DIACOM .....HAS ANY BODY GOT > A > COPY THAT THEY CAN SEND ME???? (IVE LOST THE BLOKES ADDRESS WHO WAS > KIND ENOUGH TO POST IT LAST TIME ) I FINALY GOTEN A HOLD OF SOME > INTERFACE PLANS THAT ARE MENT TO WORK WITH IT BUT NOW I DONT HAVE THE > PROG....SO I STILL DONT KNOW IF THE USA VIN'S ARE COMPATABLE WITH OUR > AUSTRALIAN CARS....... > > THANKS TO ALL > > JUSTIN > > jalbury@tpgi.com.au > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 09:24:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA01101; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:17:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA01095; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 05:17:42 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1326685; 4 Jul 97 9:44 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id JAA01392 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:35:05 +0100 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:35:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199707040835.JAA01392@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: sourcing SSI 67f687 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi, I'm a new subscriber and returning to my project after some 18 month's lapse. Together with a friend we have produced an ECU, based on 68HC11F1 processor and Silicon Systems 67F687 engine interface chip (absolutely brilliant device!). My immediate problem is where to get the 67F687? Our prototype used a pre-production engineering sample sourced from the then UK distributor Sirretta Microelectronics who no longer have the franchise. Investigations so far here in the UK have been to no avail, none of the SSI representatives seem able to supply. We know there is stock at the factory, we have spoken to them; does anyone know of a source (one or two only required at the moment) at a sensible price? Richard and Colin richm@sykes.demon.co.uk From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 10:03:54 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA01224; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:58:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melbourn.webrider.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA01218; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 05:58:40 -0400 Received: from dialup.webrider.net.au (port2-annex1.webrider.net.au [203.25.112.102]) by melbourn.webrider.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA12491 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:08:10 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33BCAF8D.774@webrider.net.au> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 18:08:45 +1000 From: Alex Organization: WebRider Internet Access User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: IM BACK References: <33BC1B73.2007@tpgi.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Justin Too bad about your 'tragic' loss. Now, about this info ... "THE PINOUTS FOR THE AUSTRALIAN CARS THAT RUN THE DELCO 808 P4", could you send that to me as well please? Thanks and best regards Alex > > jalbury@tpgi.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 14:04:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA01921; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 13:57:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pioneers.mts.mb.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA01916; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 09:57:00 -0400 Received: from mustang.mts.mb.ca by pioneers.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Jun96-0309PM) id AA02156; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:57:47 -0500 Received: from smtpos2.mts.mb.ca by mustang.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/18Jul96-1101AM) id AA32605; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:57:47 -0500 Received: by smtpos2.mts.mb.ca (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA6835; Fri, 04 Jul 97 08:58:10 -0500 Message-Id: <9707041358.AA6835@smtpos2.mts.mb.ca> Received: from MTS with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id 46F9787156C76D14862564C8007291B2; Fri, 4 Jul 97 08:58:10 To: DIY_EFI From: Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS Date: 4 Jul 97 8:58:09 Subject: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hello everyone, I stumbled across your web page while surfing the net for info on oxygen sensors, was impressed by the good info and thought that I might learn more by joining your mailing list. I am the proud owner of a somewhat obscure brand of Italian-made motorcycle, a Moto Guzzi. I am constantly modifying it to improve performance. This past winter I bored out the carburetors from a 30 mm to 36 mm throat. This of course meant that I had to revise all the jetting in the carbs to accomodate the increased air flow. I did this using the traditional method of observing spark plug color. This of course takes a lot of time so I thought a better way might be to monitor the output voltage of an oxygen sensor. I am aware of the unit which K&N sells but I thought it was very over-priced for what you get. I purchased a universal replacement O2 sensor (made by or at least packaged and distributed by KEM Automotive Products), machined a fitting and TIG welded it onto the crossover pipe on my exhaust. I find that under normal running conditions I typically read about 0.9 to 1.0 volts from the sensor. From what I read about O2 sensors this should indicate a very rich mixture however the engine seems to run quite well and the plugs show a light tan colour. I believe the sensor does respond to lean mixtures because when I deliberately make the idle mixture overly lean I read 0.3 to 0.4 volts. Also when I am running wide open throttle on the highway and snap the throttle shut I momentarily read 0.1 to 0.2 volts until the carb responds to the new conditions. After all this rambling I guess my question is has anyone had any experience in using an O2 sensor for monitoring fuel/air ratios? Also does anyone have any info on what the output voltage curve versus fuel/air ratio should be? Thanks. Look forward to hearing from you. Neil From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 14:31:16 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA01987; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 14:24:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA01982; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:24:38 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.211] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id la188355 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:27:37 -0400 Received: by port211.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8863.A2EB4A00@port211.tnt1.bignet.net>; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:18:37 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC8863.A2EB4A00@port211.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: A question on EFI theory Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:18:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8863.A2FC12E0" X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8863.A2FC12E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, I am not familiar with the Whipple supercharger, but I would guess its = performance characteristics to be the same as any positive displacement = type supercharger (correct me if I am wrong). If you look in John = Heywood's book "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals" on page 258 you = will find a performance map of a roots blower as well as the equation = relating volumetric efficiency to several other parameters. The figure = in the book indicates that, knowing the mass flow rate (i.e. throttle = position), the rpm, and the upstream pressure for the supercharger, you = have a known output pressure from the supercharger. Thus it should be = no problem to calibrate for the system you mentioned. This is simple = theory, and you may find with some experience that things are not quite = so simple, but if you designed your own system any other problems should = not be hard to overcome. Good Luck, Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ---------- From: Mark Eidson[SMTP:Mark_Eidson@ccm.ch.intel.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 8:52 AM To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: A question on EFI theory Text item:=20 If one were to design a system from scratch and have complete control = over fuel=20 maps, etc., could a system be made that measured the MAP between the = throttle=20 body and supercharger rather than at the intake manifold? Could the = fuel map be designed to compensate for the increased volumetric efficency of the=20 supercharger at a given RPM and MAP? =20 Putting it another way could I use my Holley 4di throttle body on a = Whipple=20 supercharger on a small block chevy with the MAP and vacuum taken off = the=20 throttle body port rather than the intake manifold? Thanks, me. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Subject: TPI and Jags That Run To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X-Sender: jhaag@odin.cair.du.edu From: John Haag Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by odin.cair.du.edu; id AA27138; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 = -0600 Received: from odin.cair.du.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP = (940816.S GI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA25526; Tue, 1 Jul = 1997 17:47 :20 -0400 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA25531; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:47:24 GMT Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by thalia.fm.intel.com = (8.8.4/10.0i); Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:45:29 GMT Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com = [132.233.247.11]) by chm ail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13048 for = ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:33 -0700 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Jul 1997 15:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO notes.interconnection.co.uk) (193.133.122.144) by quay.mail.pipex.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 1997 15:16:51 -0000 Received: by notes.interconnection.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) id 802564CA.0053CADC ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:15:14 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISL To: DIY_EFI Message-ID: <802564CA.00536CDD.00@notes.interconnection.co.uk> Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:15:09 +0100 Subject: moto guzzi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Kerrie Thornton@ISL 04/07/97 16:15 Hi Neil, Motor guzzi's are not so obscure. My girlfriends brother has had 2. The 2nd was a le mans replica. He thinks they're great. The first thing he does is put a very loud exhaust on! This apparently makes up for the lack of performance in relation to a jap bike. Kerrie. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 21:07:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA00741; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:54:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA00736; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:54:10 -0400 Received: from desktop (usr2-dialup12.mix1.WillowSprings.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01IKUGSAHZZE99ENCY@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 16:52:59 EDT Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 04 Jul 1997 16:51:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 16:51:30 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: RE: Speedo To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Message-id: <01BC889A.86214640%frederic.breitwieser@mcione.com> Organization: The Xephic Group MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4008 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi What I'm going to do is put anti-lock brake sprocket/sensors on the front wheels, and derive a signal from there. Found out that the 1995 S-10 4WD blazer has those, and still fit the 1986 S-10 FWD spindles. Almost too easy :) On Thursday, July 03, 1997 7:33 PM, George M. Dailey [SMTP:gmd@tecinfo.com] wrote: > Thanks Vance. BTW, have you thought about securing small magnets to the > drive shaft and using a distributer pickup coil? From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 22:28:10 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA00979; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 22:16:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA00974; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 18:16:01 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max2-cy-ca-03.earthlink.net [204.119.165.103]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA02058 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33BD6A05.4912@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 14:24:21 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi folks, I'm a new subscriber to the list, and am looking for the "definitive source" for information on Bosch's LH-Jetronic efi system. I've visited the diy_efi website, searched the archives, and have secured the names of a few titles. I'm wondering, however, for those of you who may be familiar with them, how they compare with Probst's _Bosch Fuel Injection & Engine Management_ (Bentley, 1991)? Probst's book is well-written and easy to understand, but does not go quite to the level of detail I was hoping for. I suspect, however, that any further level of detail which I may seek must be at the application-specific level. In my case, it's for both an '87 Volvo 740 turbo and an '88 Volvo 760 turbo. I'm interested in finding out how LH-Jetronic is employed on other platforms, too, though, such as the Porsche 928s, Saabs, and a couple of the big Bimmers. The '740 turbo is a project car currently undergoing enhancements. I've been told that the stock efi system, with the addition of a rising rate pressure regulator, will provide sufficient fuel delivery for horsepower applications up to 280. Beyond that, supplementary components would need to be employed, such as a fifth injector. If I were to find this car running shy on fuel (which I doubt will happen, but who can say for sure?), I would prefer not to go the 5th injector route, and would rather size the system up a notch or two, if possible. In order to do this, though, I'll have to gain a better understanding regarding some of the particulars of LH-Jet, such as MAF sensor flow parameters and limits, recalibration possibilities, possible reprograming of the PROM, etc. Any advice would be appreciated. -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 4 23:32:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA01248; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:21:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout20.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA01243; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:21:05 -0400 From: Wilkrod@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout20.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id TAA05962 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 19:21:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970704192105_-1594395211@emout20.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Howdy The Bosch Blue book of which you speek is most likely the most specific in detail that you will see. Bosch is quite anal on releasing any specific details on any of the products that they make. Good luck on finding any more info. than that supplied in the Blue book. Regards Jeff 86 Lotus Esprit From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 01:37:10 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA01493; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:25:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from vectorbd.vectorbd.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA01488; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:25:11 -0400 Received: from wa2zkd.vectorbd.com (test01.vectorbd.com [172.16.4.1]) by vectorbd.vectorbd.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10949; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:25:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:30:39 +0100 (utc) From: Jim Lill To: Michael McBroom cc: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? In-Reply-To: <33BD6A05.4912@earthlink.net> Message-ID: X-X-Sender: jpl@vectbd.vectorbd.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I lack a copy to get the ISBN # from but Bosch themselves published a 40 or so page softbound book on it. I'll try to get the # when I return from vacation in a week. -Jim Lill http://www.vectorbd.com/users/jpl From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 01:45:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA01553; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:36:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA01548; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 21:36:45 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max1-cy-ca-27.earthlink.net [204.119.165.52]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA09363 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 18:36:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33BD9901.6F65@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 17:44:49 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Source for LH-Jetronic info? References: <970704192105_-1594395211@emout20.mail.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Wilkrod@aol.com wrote: > The Bosch Blue book of which you speek is most likely the most specific in > detail that you will see. Bosch is quite anal on releasing any specific > details on any of the products that they make. Good luck on finding any more > info. than that supplied in the Blue book. How unfortunate. What, are there no turncoats, no defectors who have, or are willing to, reveal Bosch arcana to the rest of the world? > Regards > Jeff > 86 Lotus Esprit =Love= your car, btw. -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 03:52:54 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA01707; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 03:41:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA01702; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 23:41:49 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max1-cy-ca-27.earthlink.net [204.119.165.52]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA02258 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 20:41:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33BDB65A.45CC@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 19:50:02 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Electromotiv TEC systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Anybody here have any experience with the Electromotive TEC-I or TEC-II? According to their ads and their website (http://www.electromotive-inc.com) the TEC-II especially sounds like the cat's meow. If it did everything it says, I could eliminate three different but interdependent systems in my car. -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 06:39:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA01947; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 06:31:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wagner.mtco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA01942; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:31:43 -0400 Received: from 169-139-208.ipt.aol.com (169-139-208.ipt.aol.com [152.169.139.208]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.8.5/8.5.9) with SMTP id BAA16759 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:31:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:31:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707050631.BAA16759@wagner.mtco.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.mtco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Anybody here have any experience with the Electromotive TEC-I or >TEC-II? According to their ads and their website >(http://www.electromotive-inc.com) the TEC-II especially sounds like the >cat's meow. If it did everything it says, I could eliminate three >different but interdependent systems in my car. > >-- >Best, > >Michael McBroom > I have a TEC-II and like it. But you will find most people say it is a piece of crap. That is probably because it is a bit difficult to get use to the way it programs and they cannot get the calibration correct. I have made mine work and it works great. David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 07:27:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA02021; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 07:23:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA02016; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 03:22:57 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id CAA07237 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:22:55 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 02:22:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707050722.CAA07237@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ven-ca3-34.ix.netcom.com(207.92.176.98) by dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma007223; Sat Jul 5 02:22:52 1997 X-Sender: fcmtb@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi No David, TEC2s themselves aren't crap, the company is. I'll agree, many people don't understand the tuning concept. I don't understand them. Fred At 01:31 AM 7/5/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Anybody here have any experience with the Electromotive TEC-I or >>TEC-II? According to their ads and their website >>(http://www.electromotive-inc.com) the TEC-II especially sounds like the >>cat's meow. If it did everything it says, I could eliminate three >>different but interdependent systems in my car. >> >>-- >>Best, >> >>Michael McBroom >> >I have a TEC-II and like it. But you will find most people say it is a >piece of crap. That is probably because it is a bit difficult to get use to >the way it programs and they cannot get the calibration correct. I have >made mine work and it works great. > >David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 >69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 >If you are going to go fast, go real fast. > > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 08:17:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA02082; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:10:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA02077; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 04:10:06 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max1-cy-ca-19.earthlink.net [204.119.165.44]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA18175 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 01:10:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33BDF543.1DC8@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 00:18:27 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems References: <199707050722.CAA07237@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Fred Miranda wrote: > > No David, TEC2s themselves aren't crap, the company is. > > I'll agree, many people don't understand the tuning concept. > I don't understand them. Could you be more specific? -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 12:10:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA02700; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 12:02:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA02695; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:02:39 -0400 Received: from desktop (usr2-dialup8.mix1.WillowSprings.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01IKVCJ0SCDC99ENUX@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 08:01:46 EDT Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 05 Jul 1997 08:00:19 -0400 Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 08:00:18 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: RE: Electromotiv TEC systems To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Message-id: <01BC8919.7B48FD60%frederic.breitwieser@mcione.com> Organization: The Xephic Group MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4008 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > > No David, TEC2s themselves aren't crap, the company is. > Could you be more specific? I can... I have never bought any of their products, and after two calls to their pre-sales tech support, I wasn't able to get the answers that I wanted out of them. The guy I spoke to on both occasions was vague, not very responsive, and basically left me with the impression that he was doing ME a favor, even though if I was buying one of their products, I'd be doing THEM a favor. So much for the customer being important :) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List NEW WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html Email: frederic.breitwieser@mcione.com & FJB203@aol.com Bridgeport, Connecticut From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 14:54:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA03118; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 14:48:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA03113; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:48:45 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.44] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id da188763 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:51:45 -0400 Received: by port44.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8930.27236D80@port44.tnt1.bignet.net>; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:42:36 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC8930.27236D80@port44.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Date: Sat, 5 Jul 1997 10:42:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8930.2744FF40" X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8930.2744FF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Neil, As far as I can tell, the problem with using an oxygen sensor to do = wide range fuel/air work is that they are not accurate in the rich = region. The cheapest system I am familiar with to do wide range = measurement is $1000.00US. The problem is that the partial pressure of = oxygen in the exhaust is dependent on temperature on the rich side of = stoichiometric. For more information, consult John Heywood's book = "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals", page 302, where you will also = find a voltage output vs. lambda curve. Also, another error is introduced since the oxygen sensor functions = according to the Nernst equation, which gives the voltage output of the = oxygen sensor mainly as a function of partial pressure of oxygen in the = exhaust and of temperature of the sensor. Most oxygen sensors have no = temperature compensation, which creates inaccuracies with typical = production based oxygen sensor measurement systems. Remember automotive = manufacturers use this sensor mainly to determine where stoichiometric = operation is. Let me know if this helps. BTW, after calibrating engines with wide = range sensors to get close, I have also used spark plug color to fine = tune WOT operation on race days. Make sure you consult a spark plug = manufacturer rep. for their suggestions. They can be quite helpful. Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ---------- From: Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS[SMTP:Neil_Poersch@mts.mb.ca] Sent: Friday, July 04, 1997 4:58 AM To: DIY_EFI Subject: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions This of course meant that I had to revise all the jetting in the carbs to accomodate the increased air flow. I did=20 this using the traditional method of observing spark plug color. This of course takes a lot of time so I thought a better way might be to monitor the output voltage of an oxygen sensor. I am aware of the unit which K&N sells but I thought it was very over-priced for what you get. I purchased a universal replacement O2 sensor (made by or at least=20 packaged and distributed by KEM Automotive Products), machined a=20 fitting and TIG welded it onto the crossover pipe on my exhaust. I find that under normal running conditions I typically read about 0.9 to 1.0 volts from the sensor. From what I read about O2 sensors this should indicate a very rich mixture however the engine seems to run quite well and the plugs show a light tan colour. I believe the sensor does respond to lean mixtures because when I deliberately make the idle mixture overly lean I read 0.3 to 0.4 volts. Also when I am running wide open throttle on the highway and snap the throttle shut I momentarily read 0.1 to 0.2 volts until the carb = responds to the new conditions. After all this rambling I guess my question is has anyone had any experience in using an O2 sensor for monitoring fuel/air ratios? Also does anyone have any info on what the output voltage curve versus=20 fuel/air ratio should be? ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8930.2744FF40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiUOAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9uICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwBfDQEFgAMADgAA AM0HBwAFAAoAKgAdAAYANwEBIIADAA4AAADNBwcABQAKAA8AGQAGABgBAQmAAQAhAAAAODNGNUU5 QjQxRUY1RDAxMUEzMTM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA2wYBA5AGANwJAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgAHSqVGJvAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9u ICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbyJUamFtOn1hPUeEdCjE0RFU1QA AAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABib3VnaHRvbkBiaWduZXQubmV0AAMA BhDcUq+iAwAHEDUJAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABORUlMLEFTRkFSQVNJQ0FOVEVMTCxUSEVQUk9CTEVN V0lUSFVTSU5HQU5PWFlHRU5TRU5TT1JUT0RPV0lERVJBTkdFRlVFTC9BSVJXT1JLSVNUSEFUVEhF WUFSRU5PVEFDQ1VSAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAUggAAE4IAADuDgAATFpGdW1LfTD/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKD AFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EW DzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRR3QvyYwBAB7EDECwKhgGRKxSwBCBmCsFhBCBJIDZjA5ET 0GwbIBzwaGXaIBNQbwJgE+AgA/AdYDwgdQCQGRAcYAOgb3h0eWcJ8CARsACABbF0OG8gZB/wA/AN sCByyxkBHYBmClBsLwtwBcCydwWwayAEAB1RYQVAjR1heRxgFhAgbm8FQP0A0GMIcCIgHYALgB1T BRAjEXAggGVnaQIgLiCMIFQdcRFwZWFwB5BtBUBzE7MckWEeABwwbf8DEAcwIWEeMh/vB4AccAhw bxPgCfAFQCHRJBkwKZAu+SmQVVMk1R2mIdkdkArAvnQHMR2RB5Aosh7wZh72+SO1ZXgRgB5wKSMN sCWA3m4NsCkRAiAc8W0lgCNhvyyTI8kAkCBhLNETwG8kMdskoAeAdCQhJNFGBbEEYPcisQuAAhBy AMAr8AIgHUATBaAAgHVsBUBKb2jdA6BIInAhgARwJwQgBuDybyGwIkkCMASRLBEIUOcG0C4hJKEg RRkQC4AdgDxGdS7QJmApAQdAcyJHHUAKsCDBMzAyHUB3+x1wIrF5CGAeER0gHGA38JUf8GYLgGQc YCB2BvBnAZAgwQhgdHA7IDqAcz8k0AtgBtA3gBywCHB2Zf4uG0s54R1AAHAi8DjxLdB+cgNgBcAh 0QuAMgAEcHX2YwmAMNFuPzAdUx8MIPDfP5AzcgQgIyEFsGQekidxjx1iB8AEoCWhZXF1M2X/OOAk MiSQPGAh4h2AOp0s0fc/3yhwC3FsIoFBcUDnLML/K88s3y3mAHA6UEWiL3pFtPMfdCTRTW8loR8L BCARgP88YCLRL1sFoC+BAIBDSwUA7yVgE9A+oiMkYwiQBCAnJLx5cCQwSMM/AjaTYhxw/z9BRh0o mSXUO5EH8CjhBtB/PgEuECdwBGBIoE6hA4F1/xwwQSAowU5RHnA/siHRRoz/J3IRwASQJrA3ITjk MWwe8G8vkzaiBAA8i0wRwChxID5rIuAH4AaQWMQdcGxw8VYyQlRXPZEBgD4BUuH8aWJcUh6hCfA3 AlI1IEnvTgYncR8wBUBjFaARsB1A/xygToM501iRP1EKsSGwC1D+dR6wFYMnYjohP7E3YB2A+FdP VFwZLzFR4R2AN4DzE7BNEmFrTJFJQjlCM9bvOnBk2Ve6JGFwJNAzIR1S+yFRKLBnHzA2g1YyJQEi gPscwlbAIEMgHjAdgF7yIPB2bDyGCoVKB3BfYAhgZzpoJ3BuCoUG4HA0QGLkaWc3IHQuccFu/Ar0 GSbQMTgpkAIAaS0xPDQ0DfAM0HQTC1kxNs8KoANgE9BBICAtdjcKh9d06wwwdbZGA2E6dz51tmMb sxryIFBvWFERcC+YTVRTNjF7sltTe8AUUDoa8l97RUBtdOs7kAbQLhzAXXbfd+0GYH8CMHkfeit4 0CBQaCAdQEoTNBAigDA0HUAxOTlANyA0OjU4FLBNM34/d+1Ub4B/eitESWBZX0VGSYQvf051fGJq dfGGT3orNaFTOCbsIE8R4R+EUQpQbMQKi/90bBpJcq9zv5A9hadY4kmB/wWgCHBYoSiBKREiA2PC OlBbJ3EWEHYEAGQSbJFtM/42k391xR1iisACQB6SI7X5HMByYmLDQZIEYSNyHWL/P4FREVPyIUIY 4F5AJNEcoP8gACBQb1ZY0x50HWIyAJbA7x4wJKFIwTHhaARwSXObsP8EkJdAHqFk3iTTBAAKhZVI /wGQaKBHchWgRYQHcR9gH/D/HKChAXAyJOA6cFbAAkA+Af53aCAocHGgpoFt4SdwCoX/BGADACdw a/M7BzqmSZAe3vueIyZhYadQTBcKhTdgHjDxQ6VLJk4fYR0gNSE7Ua+mGK1iHHE8YHIigG+v4f4t E1AkMD9Ba9I44CIhOUHfCoVjEW7tHKA7QHIRcZ1j/60yr+FQIAMga4ELYD8wKPPbjdEfdSgAwCBh YrARHFE/BUAd4BxwBUAKhQqwY2v/OFE6UTpBQeATwAUQrpE/QbG2gUtFTRSwVxhQUzT8cykdQADB MbA3IDpSCoXHOiCatEsSVElHHhAdEP8NsDpQrWECIUJEBQBNUB+g76/hHZAFIDADbSKALeWyX/86 IyIDN2E+ASLgM0G0oTdg/wMAHqEz0aBUHIJSpUcxURGvOlFxAXImKbA5J2IxKcD/OoMcEQNhTGt4 0rEkHKDEyP+1eI72WNSmQb2AI6FB4BzA3yOBOnGv8iQjJrB4L9OhEP+9YL7yLaM29BGwVhGW4zdg /wqFbhS9YTmxwYMdgWVByqP/B+ClAaejAZADoBWCCHDAX39WwCbQzTFMaSABB5FJAXD/w2EnYrcR v5HMlDUhBZAuEf9aswOgiIYNsGBBL6IdEKdx+2iSnMNkHeDMd7AyRzHVo9vIlSmwMydiKbA0xnQ8 hv89Utb1JlLC1iBDXCEjwnXBfnTZUTAlMbBwQKdSSxJz/TXwcKyZ3sfKwK6jBGA3o/8FEMSWKbAa 0NtzEeDGhDdg/0igAyCbRtTmYsKexyLBB9H7w1hu7UFf05eRWMQgkAbQ9ybQHqEcoGeOgQQgv7FD IP9stCHCs6GqgTlANyGWsuvh/wqFLeAvkQiQP5IjsR53tYifa9KotR6SIPdcU3M/JOD/PVLXZtSy 6+dkAuvwMvMvIv+xM6k/JSE8Qq/SKLAEILv29/BLyrZWwD9yP5hvlBwKhQUVMQD70AAAAwAQEAAA AAADABEQAAAAAEAABzCAuCziTYm8AUAACDCAuCziTYm8AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAjnA= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8930.2744FF40-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 5 23:19:54 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA06876; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 23:09:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from devhla1.cebaf.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA06871; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 19:09:20 -0400 Message-Id: <199707052309.TAA06871@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: by devhla1.cebaf.gov (1.40.112.4/16.2) id AA108184159; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 19:09:19 -0400 From: Bruce Bowling Subject: ECU Box info To: diy_efi Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 19:09:19 EDT In-Reply-To: <01BC8919.7B48FD60%frederic.breitwieser@mcione.com>; from "Frederic Breitwieser" at Jul 05, 97 8:00 am X-Hpvue$Revision: 1.8 $ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Vue-Mime-Level: 4 X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 112.5] Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I am looking for the ECU pinout for an 86 Nissan Sentra XE ECU (I think it is a LE-Jet). Looking in the shop manuals at the local library was of no use. Thanks for any help- Bruce -- ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- Bruce A. Bowling Staff Scientist Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility 12000 Jefferson Ave - Newport News, VA 23606 (804) 249-7240 bowling@cebaf.gov http://devserve.cebaf.gov/~bowling ----------------------------------------------------- <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 01:22:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA07483; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 01:11:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA07478; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 21:10:59 -0400 Received: from default ([207.146.53.69]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA22835 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 01:10:53 +0000 Message-ID: <33BEF07E.5F24@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 20:10:22 -0500 From: "David C. Carlson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re:P&E BDM PAL's References: <199707052309.TAA06871@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi P&E sells BDM pal's for $25 each or $15 if you buy 10. I think they also have the schematic as a free down-load. You must pay for the software for each unit, it costs about $50. The P&E website is at . Do not take my word, it has been a while please check with them. I have used their stuff for the HC16 and have had good luck. The Nohau at $1500 is better, but too expensive for DIY. P$E also has support and knows what it takes to get the lpt: to work under Win95 with fast computers. I do not work for P&E. I also do not want to spoil the DIY spirit. I think you however have more fun working with the FI stuff than BDM problems. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 03:18:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA07836; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 03:07:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.mia.bellsouth.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA07831; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 23:07:42 -0400 Received: from dads-pc (host-207-53-124-76.mia.bellsouth.net [207.53.124.76]) by mail.mia.bellsouth.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA20714 for ; Sat, 5 Jul 1997 23:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33BF0BE2.3045@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 23:07:14 -0400 From: John C Zarli Organization: Nuts & Volts Electric, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: GM TBI V6>V8 Engine Swap Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I'm embarking on an engine swap for a V6 Astrovan that currently uses a 1227727 ECM. I have confirmed that this same ECM is the same as used on 90-91 TBI V8's. Will I need to replace both the CalPak AND the PROM? What is stored on the Cal-PAk what is in the PROM? What happens if I don't change either? Can I at least start the V8 engine with the V6 chips? I'm staying close to a stock TBI except that I will be using a mild Hyd Roller Cam (210/214dur). Will I need a "custom" chip, or would a "stock" chip be able to learn that much of a change? I also have the large 2" TBI unit from a Big Block TBI available to play with....might this be a useful addition? Is any of the info or SW for programming these systems "public domain" or at least real cheap? Failing that, a recommendation (or a volunteer) to furnish whatever it is that I will need would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for all the questions, but I figure if anyone out there can answer one, they can probably answer the rest (vbg) From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 09:12:11 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA08369; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 08:59:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from edam.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA08364; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 04:59:00 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-01b11.direct.ca [204.174.248.27]) by edam.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id BAA23328 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 01:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 01:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707060858.BAA23328@edam.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: GM TBI V6>V8 Engine Swap Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi John If you stick with the TBI and go to the V8 all you need is the calpak... The throttle body is different as is the distributer but everything else is the same.. The calpak for a truck costs 50$ canadian GL:peter At 11:07 PM 7/5/97 -0400, you wrote: >I'm embarking on an engine swap for a V6 Astrovan that currently uses a >1227727 ECM. I have confirmed that this same ECM is the same as used on >90-91 TBI V8's. >Will I need to replace both the CalPak AND the PROM? > >What is stored on the Cal-PAk what is in the PROM? > >What happens if I don't change either? >Can I at least start the V8 engine with the V6 chips? > > >I'm staying close to a stock TBI except that >I will be using a mild Hyd Roller Cam (210/214dur). > Will I need a "custom" chip, or would a "stock" chip be able to learn >that much of a change? > >I also have the large 2" TBI unit from a Big Block TBI available to play >with....might this be a useful addition? > > >Is any of the info or SW for programming these systems "public domain" >or at least real cheap? > >Failing that, a recommendation (or a volunteer) to furnish whatever it >is that I will need would be greatly appreciated. > >Sorry for all the questions, but I figure if anyone out there can answer >one, they can probably answer the rest (vbg) > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 09:44:57 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA08475; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 09:36:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA08470; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 05:36:25 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-01b11.direct.ca [204.174.248.27]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id CAA20527 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 02:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 02:36:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707060936.CAA20527@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Truck ECM Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Guys Wonder if a kind soul has read the E000 to FFFF internal roms in the #727 Truck ECM yet who would let me have a copy of the read.. Elsewise might have to blow up perfectly good ecm tommorrow. Tnx all:peter From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 09:46:45 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA08483; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 09:38:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from edam.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA08478; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 05:38:50 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-01b11.direct.ca [204.174.248.27]) by edam.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id CAA26716 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 02:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 02:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707060938.CAA26716@edam.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: GM TBI V6>V8 Engine Swap Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi John Just read the rest of your message.. When I was using the stock 5.7 cal I ran a performer cam, with 202 heads and cyclone ar headers with dual exhaust.. Had to turn up the idle to about 700 but it ran fine after that.. Also a PLUG for Steve at TTS: He sells a package you might want.. Don't have his number but check the archives.. L8tr:peter >I'm staying close to a stock TBI except that >I will be using a mild Hyd Roller Cam (210/214dur). > Will I need a "custom" chip, or would a "stock" chip be able to learn >that much of a change? > >I also have the large 2" TBI unit from a Big Block TBI available to play >with....might this be a useful addition? > > >Is any of the info or SW for programming these systems "public domain" >or at least real cheap? > >Failing that, a recommendation (or a volunteer) to furnish whatever it >is that I will need would be greatly appreciated. > >Sorry for all the questions, but I figure if anyone out there can answer >one, they can probably answer the rest (vbg) > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 17:40:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA09306; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 17:34:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail1.halcyon.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA09301; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 13:34:48 -0400 Received: from coho.halcyon.com (samco@coho.halcyon.com [198.137.231.21]) by mail1.halcyon.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01420 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 10:35:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 10:34:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Samuel Y. Stoney" To: diy_efi Subject: Electromotive tec 2 unit fs In-Reply-To: <199707060900.JAA08382@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi all, I've got a tec 2 unit for sale. It is from a Ducati FI project; one I never succeeded with because of problems unrelated to the TEC unit. It is a custom unit set up for a 90 degree V2 or 4.I have the super blend software that allows one to blend in tps and map values for smoother off idle performance. Anybody have a project that could use this? Sam Stoney SamCo Racing "When indecisive or in doubt - race in circles, scream, and shout." From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 18:54:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA09469; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 18:47:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout12.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA09464; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:47:12 -0400 From: JRECPA@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout12.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id OAA01482 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 14:47:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970706144711_-924622444@emout12.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Electromotive tec 2 unit fs Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi how much for the tec-2 unit? From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 6 23:30:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA10068; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:24:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA10063; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 19:24:27 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0ECX7NG8S00FZ7@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:23 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:25:25 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:25:19 +1200 Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 11:25:09 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: analog EFI To: diy_efi Message-id: <0ECX7NG8T00FZ7@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All I have a '73 Ford Capri with a 2L 4 cyl engine I also have an analog EFI system that I am about to put in. It uses a map sensor and a pickup from the -ve of the coil to control only the fuel. It has 6 pots that set the on time for the injectors over the rev range. I want to put a MSD ignition module in but I think that this will cause the efi ecm to freak out? Am I right in thinking this? Thanks Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 01:42:32 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA10973; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:37:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA10967; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:37:29 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du191-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.191]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA26731 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 18:37:20 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970706183931.0096b640@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 18:39:33 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re: sourcing SSI 67f687 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi The SSI chip is out of production, sorry! Sandy At 09:35 AM 7/4/97 +0100, you wrote: >Hi, >I'm a new subscriber and returning to my project after some 18 month's >lapse. Together with a friend we have produced an ECU, based on 68HC11F1 >processor and Silicon Systems 67F687 engine interface chip (absolutely >brilliant device!). My immediate problem is where to get the 67F687? >Our prototype used a pre-production engineering sample sourced from the then >UK distributor Sirretta Microelectronics who no longer have the franchise. >Investigations so far here in the UK have been to no avail, none of the SSI >representatives seem able to supply. We know there is stock at the factory, >we have spoken to them; does anyone know of a source (one or two only >required at the moment) at a sensible price? > >Richard and Colin richm@sykes.demon.co.uk > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 01:50:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA10995; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 01:47:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA10990; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 21:47:24 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du191-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.191]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA27373 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 18:47:15 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970706184927.00a23790@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 18:49:29 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re:P&E BDM PAL's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Their is also one addition but more expensive alternitive, the $199 USD BDM debugger and interface from HMI. I have it, but have not yet tried it. It works on the serial port, instead of the parallel. Sandy From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 03:40:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA11169; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 03:30:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wagner.mtco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA11164; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:30:42 -0400 Received: from 172-195-187.ipt.aol.com (172-195-187.ipt.aol.com [152.172.195.187]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.8.5/8.5.9) with SMTP id WAA28281 for ; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:30:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 22:30:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707070330.WAA28281@wagner.mtco.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.mtco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) Subject: RE: Electromotiv TEC systems Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >> > No David, TEC2s themselves aren't crap, the company is. >> Could you be more specific? > >I can... I have never bought any of their products, and after two calls to >their pre-sales tech support, I wasn't able to get the answers that I >wanted out of them. The guy I spoke to on both occasions was vague, not >very responsive, and basically left me with the impression that he was >doing ME a favor, even though if I was buying one of their products, I'd be >doing THEM a favor. > >So much for the customer being important :) > > >Frederic Breitwieser >Homebrew Automotive Mailing List >NEW WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html > >Email: frederic.breitwieser@mcione.com & FJB203@aol.com >Bridgeport, Connecticut > > > It is really odd, but any time I have called Electromotive I have talked to people who knew what they were talking about. They do act a little snooty at times but you have to just understand how to deal with that type of person. Comes from being an engineer in a Union plant. I learn a lot of finess there. David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 06:43:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA11723; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 06:31:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dewey.mindlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA11716; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:31:14 -0400 Received: from facts [204.174.29.12] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wl7KK-0000bH-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:31:12 -0700 Message-ID: <33C08CA1.6C25@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 23:28:49 -0700 From: Terry Martin Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: [Fwd: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Received: from dewey.mindlink.net [204.174.16.4 by mail.vcr.istar.ca with smtp (Exim 1.62 #10) id 0wl6wy-0002iL-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:07:04 -0700 Received: from root by dewey.mindlink.net with local (Exim 1.61 #1 id 0wl6xJ-0000XG-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:07:25 -0700 From: Mail Delivery System To: terry_martin@mindlink.bc.ca Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-Id: Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:07:25 -0700 This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to all of its recipients. The following address(es) failed: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio_state.edu: unknown mail domain ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ Return-path: Received: from facts [204.174.29.12] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wl6xI-0000XE-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:07:25 -0700 Message-ID: <33C08715.3104@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 23:05:09 -0700 From: Terry Martin Reply-To: terry_martin@mindlink.bc.ca Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio_state.edu Subject: Getting around those messy passive anti-theft systems (VATS/PASSkey/PassLock& so on) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While my interest is in the actual passive anti-theft system, those fussing about with efi stuff need to know (A)your ECM/PCM/OBC won't work without it or a work-around, (B)If you want to alarm your vehicle and use the remote start feature, (good for bikers in Quebec that don't want to get blowed up good), you have to work around the anti-theft stuff, (C)If you drive a 85 1/2 Vette or '88 1/2 Camaro/Firebird and you want to keep your wheels, equip it with a delayed kill switch for when someone sticks a gun in your face and says gimmee. The system is demonstrably effetective, however, making the most attractive vehicle for auto theft reliant on the measure of control retained by the operator changes the nature of the crime from an anonymous theft to a confrontational robbery. If they want your wheels, and the only way to get them is to poke you in the eye with a '45, guess what's going to get poked. Me, I'd give up the keys. I will provide work arounds for the anti-theft stuff if asked, but don't expect to be able to rip off a car with it. A) Anyone stupid enough to try to boost a equipped car is unlikely to know what a work-around is, and (B) it takes too long, and (C) if you're a car thief, go get it from a dealership, they are about as dumb as you are. Terry From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 06:43:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA11728; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 06:31:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dewey.mindlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA11722; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 02:31:16 -0400 Received: from facts [204.174.29.12] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wl7KM-0000bJ-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:31:14 -0700 Message-ID: <33C08CB7.1F10@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 23:29:11 -0700 From: Terry Martin Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: [Fwd: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Received: from dewey.mindlink.net [204.174.16.4 by mail.vcr.istar.ca with smtp (Exim 1.62 #10) id 0wl7Bd-0004JE-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:22:13 -0700 Received: from root by dewey.mindlink.net with local (Exim 1.61 #1 id 0wl7Bz-0000Zo-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:22:35 -0700 From: Mail Delivery System To: terry_martin@mindlink.bc.ca Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender Message-Id: Date: Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:22:35 -0700 This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to all of its recipients. The following address(es) failed: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio_state.edu: unknown mail domain ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ Return-path: Received: from facts [204.174.29.12] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wl7By-0000Zm-00; Sun, 6 Jul 1997 23:22:34 -0700 Message-ID: <33C08AB1.EC3@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 1997 23:20:33 -0700 From: Terry Martin Reply-To: terry_martin@mindlink.bc.ca Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio_state.edu Subject: Hacking the code for efi controllers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for individuals or firms with the time and knowhow to decompile the processor code and/or build a program that sequentially toggles the bitmaps of controller related to the anti-theft system in any type of vehicle, along with the firmware to scan the output and break down the bitmap functions of the ECM/PCM/OBC code. This is an associate position with an international firm of consultants specializing in the analysis of vehicle anti-theft systems, failures, fraudulent theft claims, and providing the insurance industry with effectiveness ratings, and identification of security cracks in the systems. terry_martin@mindlink.bc.ca http://mindlink.net/terry_martin/facts.html From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 11:55:15 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id LAA12229; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 11:37:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA12224; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 07:37:41 -0400 From: LotusM50@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id HAA27379 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 07:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 07:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970707073739_1789952280@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi In a message dated 97-07-07 01:06:35 EDT, pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) writes: << It is really odd, but any time I have called Electromotive I have talked to people who knew what they were talking about. They do act a little snooty at times but you have to just understand how to deal with that type of person. Comes from being an engineer in a Union plant. I learn a lot of finess there. >> This has been my experience as well. I also went out to visit them to pick up the TEC-II I purchased from them. They were extrememtly helpful and took alot of time with me figuring out what I needed, and sorting out a swet up. Got the full tour and spent a few hours at the place. Even got into a good discussion with the founder on automotive/energy/environmental economics and politics. -Bonn From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 13:15:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA12352; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 13:04:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA12347; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:04:01 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr5-dialup35.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with ESMTP id <01IKY79KQ40E96YLP9@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:03:51 EDT Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 08:56:27 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Electromotiv TEC systems To: diy_efi Message-id: <01IKY79PVKZC96YLP9@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > people who knew what they were talking about. They do act a little snooty > at times but you have to just understand how to deal with that type of Hey Dave. We probably are saying the same thing... just that I appear to be more annoyed by it :) Fred From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 16:58:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA14485; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:51:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA14476; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 12:51:30 -0400 Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-140.apple.com [17.128.100.140]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA10952 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:49:22 -0700 Received: from [17.221.21.215] (knowb2.apple.com [17.221.21.215]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA28056 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 09:49:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199707071649.JAA28056@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: Natural Gas instead of petrol Date: Mon, 7 Jul 97 09:51:28 -0700 x-sender: briankk@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Brian Knowles To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On the 3rd of July, Mark Reed asked the list: >Hi all, > >Could a EFI system be converted easily to Natural Gas by connecting >the fuel rail to a gas bottle with the appropriate pressure >regulator? > >If the regulation pressure was set correctly then the fuel/air >mixture could be set to allow the use of existing mixture maps in the >EFI system. > >Is this feasible or a wild dream ? > >Mark Reed >Farnborough UK > How short our collective memories. Wasn't it , umm, last week that we had a post from a fellow in Houston who had done exactly that? He used CNG, regulated it down to about 100psi rail pressure, and two sets of Ford MS injectors per cyl, claimed 625 hp from a 302 Mustang, which he still has, and invited people to come and inspect. That was this list wasn't it? Or was it the Ford list....? possibly befuddled, Brian From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 18:46:54 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA15299; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 18:39:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA15293; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:39:09 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr8-dialup35.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01IKYIX6LW7E96YC8K@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 14:37:23 EDT Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 14:40:20 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: GN Compatibility X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970707144020.00927c20@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Greetings, I'm hoping this is not :too: far off topic, if so, my advance apologies to the list. I'm building up a FWD Buick 3.8L engine (1986), hoping I can use GN internals, such as the crank, pistons, rods, heads etc, hopefully to achieve the legendary GN performance (or close to it). I have found out that the wiring harness, ECM, and electrical components are the same, obviously with a different PROM in the ECM. Any advice or information would be appreciated. By verifying this level of compatibility, my 160HP FWD block has access to many, many quality aftermarket products. Two GM dealers weren't able to give me any clear information or direction. Thanks in advance, feel free to write directly :) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 7 21:29:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA15837; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 21:22:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pioneers.mts.mb.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA15832; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:22:15 -0400 Received: from mustang.mts.mb.ca by pioneers.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Jun96-0309PM) id AA31812; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:23:03 -0500 Received: from smtpos2.mts.mb.ca by mustang.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/18Jul96-1101AM) id AA06611; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 16:23:03 -0500 Received: by smtpos2.mts.mb.ca (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA0317; Mon, 07 Jul 97 16:23:27 -0500 Message-Id: <9707072123.AA0317@smtpos2.mts.mb.ca> Received: from MTS with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id 7C3BC08B65EE515F862564CD00741BCB; Mon, 7 Jul 97 16:23:27 To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" From: Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS Date: 7 Jul 97 16:13:58 Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi boughton @ bignet.net (James Boughton) 05/07/97 10:42 AM Jim, Thanks for the info. > As far as I can tell, the problem with using an oxygen sensor to do wide range fuel/air >work is that they are not accurate in the rich region. The cheapest system I am familiar with to do >wide range measurement is $1000.00US. The problem is that the partial pressure of oxygen in >the exhaust is dependent on temperature on the rich side of stoichiometric. I suspected this was the case. I wonder if an O2 sensor with an integrated heater would help? >For more information, consult John Heywood's book "Internal Combustion Engine >Fundamentals", page 302, where you will also find a voltage output vs. lambda curve. My local library has a 1988 version but that may be too old to contain a section on O2 sensors. I will check it out. > Also, another error is introduced since the oxygen sensor functions according to the >Nernst equation, Can you recommend a source of info on the Nernst equation? From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 00:48:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA16373; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:43:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA16368; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:42:59 -0400 Received: from javer96 (ppp150.snowcrest.net [207.201.19.6]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA16457 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 17:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707080042.RAA16457@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: Fuel pump Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All Had my fuel pump give out on me today. Due to the heat 100+ deg. Going to fab heat shield to try to band aid problem. The setup in the pu is a low press pump, small storage tank, high press pump - high press pump is the one quitting . Anyone have suggestions or ideas? This the third time in 2yrs. Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 02:57:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA16802; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:50:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA16797; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:50:34 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.204] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ha190145 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:54:03 -0400 Received: by port204.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8B27.56EEB080@port204.tnt1.bignet.net>; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:44:33 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC8B27.56EEB080@port204.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:44:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8B27.56FF7960" X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8B27.56FF7960 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Neil wrote: >I wonder if an O2 sensor with an integrated heater would help? I don't think the heater will control to a constant temperature. The = OEMs use the heater to allow them to go closed loop faster on the = Federal Test Procedure (FTP) tests which reduces emissions. Without a = heater the controller must wait for exhaust gases to heat the zirconia = element to its operating temperature which is too far into the test for = them. >My local library has a 1988 version but that may be too old to contain = a=20 >section on O2 sensors. I will check it out. My copy of Heywood is from 1988, also. I think this is the only edition = he wrote. >Can you recommend a source of info on the Nernst equation? Page 301 in Heywood has the Nernst equation as it applies to oxygen = sensors. It may be worth your while to look into the diy_efi book list = which lists several publications regarding oxygen sensors. There is = even an EPA paper listed there that claims the sensor reads H2 and CO = until it is fully heated (I haven't read this yet). John Gwynne: If you have a copy of the aforementioned paper I would = like to read it also. I believe it was you who listed the document? = Yes?:-) Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8B27.56FF7960 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiICAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9uICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwBfDQEFgAMADgAA AM0HBwAHABYALAAcAAEAQQEBIIADAA4AAADNBwcABwAWACIAJgABAEEBAQmAAQAhAAAANDhFQTA1 RjkxNkY3RDAxMUEzMTM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAAygYBA5AGANwFAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAIMPD2kiLvAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9u ICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbyLSNqA+QXqSfcWEdCjE0RFU1QA AAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABib3VnaHRvbkBiaWduZXQubmV0AAMA BhAa7SgKAwAHEL4DAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABORUlMV1JPVEU6SVdPTkRFUklGQU5PMlNFTlNPUldJ VEhBTklOVEVHUkFURURIRUFURVJXT1VMREhFTFA/SURPTlRUSElOS1RIRUhFQVRFUldJTExDT05U Uk9MVE9BQ09OU1RBAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAUQQAAE0EAACTBwAATFpGdcqLLrz/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKD AFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EW DzI1NQKACoENsQtgYG5nMTAzFFALDjFuNgqgA2AT0GMFQAqLbPhpMzYN8AtVFFEL8hq2KwfAAxF3 GsI6CoU+SVceAAIgBIEgBpAgA5FPnxHgEbAAgAWxA/B0aB+iFwuAE9AJwGET0GQgaC5lIWEgYQhg bCGSbHCuPwqFCocce2MAQCAe8LpkAiAnBUAgoAuAayVR/mUhpwMQAyAFoAIwA2ADIPx0bx+gJrIT wABwJUET4A5wBJAhYAhwZS4gIKJUJdFPRU0EIHURsLcluidCJpBvB+AlwW0nMnpnJ1BjFaARsCGQ FaBv8HAgZmETwQXAAiAls25GCYAoYQMgVAeQBUBQDQNgYwmAKKEgKEZU3FApKBETwAQgdyVwEXB6 IBYRdS5gBCAT4AQBafsnoSjRVyCRCGAFQCdwKhZrJdEmxWwfUW0pkAVAd88LcAVAAhAFwGV4EYAz Qj5nLJAHkSdBIbIls3pp/nImwQcwMGAy8AeAJ/InUN8gkAQgLFAoYguAZygaL4X/BAAnMSdQLIAf YQIwJ1AlwvcvMjPDKxIuHF8a2yNPJFemPjsfGtRNeSwhYy2x9RwAYiFQckAgEYAEICdwwDE5ODgg dgSQMLJ8IGIxgSCgNUEAwEAgYv8psTkxBvAhkCdBJsILcSdh/zz/Pg8czhGwGwBCEizxH+fvMPIe 8SaDIbBjJaAzoTFxfi5ErwviGyxFL0ACBaBwxUAgbx+QSGV5HxAEcPc44gNSQXMsKqEgQEkTJWbv OPE48iXRAiBsQCAJgCCQ/0ISJdEeE0p4G887n0qvRd91HOxDA5F5CGAv4QWgbf82cSGQJ3AgQAhw LmBOQguAHwIQLOYHwASgLgFlcXWPN3ECICLPVh9QYWcl4PwzMCTARFFOhkEiWw8s8XNBMTOhYXAL UAiQNNNv/Hh5XnADoEipQscfEAAg/yCwWOEgYSVwMvAnMiwxSfHTObZR8HlfDcBpQkBlIv9TwDNS L6NmwgQgEbBB0S2x/HB1AmAvsFvjBCAWEDSQ/wsgN5JiLykBLqE48WfhRGHxA6BFUEFoQGFwH1Fm wr8hgSXBLqFCkyvAC3BtUTTTIBUWEGFkBCBIEeAAcPkhkENPKYACMAMRM6FPAu8iQFGxIbMhkCge 8BGAa3HXJTFuwlDEeRHAKUp2S+UISm9oA6BHd3lu/m4eUEkhH5BY4nGCJ2NOJP0lwmEz0TZjMMEh gWwkHvL7IkJTwGtkw3IDYUJP9kMg/2GhdUEzoTOAcoFY8S+QZPETbJck8WN1NnI/IFlhB5A/Oi0p cv0HcCDSQghgZ2gnQG5L5Qbg4X4kQGJpZ3RgSmB/sX9XPzwvgd9Tb4CPS+UVMQABhiAAAAADABAQ AAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMIA1SHtHi7wBQAAIMIA1SHtHi7wBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAD2 yw== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8B27.56FF7960-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 02:59:53 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA16820; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 02:57:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA16815; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 22:57:17 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11668 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id TAA06007; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:56:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 19:56:59 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: Fuel pump In-Reply-To: <199707080042.RAA16457@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Mon, 7 Jul 1997, Jennifer Rose wrote: > Hi All > > Had my fuel pump give out on me today. Due to the heat 100+ deg. > Going to fab heat shield to try to band aid problem. The setup in the pu is > a low press pump, small storage tank, high press pump - high press pump is > the one quitting . Anyone have suggestions or ideas? This the third time in > 2yrs. Where is the heat coming from? Is the small storage tank ever emptied by the high pres. pump thus causing the high pres. pump to run dry? I would suspect you'd notice this but at WOT you might be having too much fun. :) jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 04:33:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA16944; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 04:27:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailer.fsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA16939; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:27:06 -0400 Received: from garnet.acns.fsu.edu (gmhub.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.10]) by mailer.fsu.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA02221 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (garnet2.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.3]) by garnet.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA21725 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:27:04 -0400 Received: from default (xyp24.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.2.44]) by garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA29747 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 00:27:03 -0400 Message-ID: <33C1C1AF.1DA91530@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 00:27:27 -0400 From: Thomas Wright X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Fuel pump X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199707080042.RAA16457@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Jennifer Rose wrote: > Hi All > > Had my fuel pump give out on me today. Due to the heat 100+ > deg. > Going to fab heat shield to try to band aid problem. The setup in the > pu is > a low press pump, small storage tank, high press pump - high press > pump is > the one quitting . Anyone have suggestions or ideas? This the third > time in > 2yrs. > > Vance I installed a fuel injection system on my previously cabuerated car about a year ago. I started having some driveability problems a few months ago and finally figured out it was my fuel pumps. I think it is all three of them! The car has two gas tanks with in-tank (low pressure) fuel pumps feeding the main fuel injection (high pressure) pump. (Only one low pressure pump feeds the high pressure pump at a time. Only one tank is in use at a time.) One of the in-tank fuel pumps failed completely, and now, after running off just one tank, the others are going bad (one or both, I think both.) I have always heard that keeping the in-tank, low-pressure pumps to feed the high-pressure fuel injection pump was a good idea, but now I am beginning to wonder. Since fuel in the fuel injection systems circulates, there is a much higher flow-rate than with carburetor systems that must only fuel what the motor needs at the moment. Could it be that the pumps that are designed for carburetors can't keep up, and thus they burn out? Then the lack of decent flow can in turn burn out the fuel injection pump? Maybe the fuel injection pump is fighting even a good low-pressure pump and thus burns out? I have figured out that MY (maybe not yours) low pressure pumps will only pump to their capacity and no more (even if you try to "suck" more out of them.) I figure this because if you unplug the power from them and remove the fuel hose, not a drop will come out, even with a full tank. I think this would definitely put a strain on the high pressure pump if the low pressure pump could not keep up with its capacity. Tom Wright From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 12:29:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA17672; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:18:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA17663; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:18:17 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA25888; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:17:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:17:26 -0500 Message-Id: <9707081217.AA25888@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: Fuel pump Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi [ snip ] >I have always heard that keeping the in-tank, low-pressure pumps to feed >the high-pressure fuel injection pump was a good idea, but now I am >beginning to wonder. >Since fuel in the fuel injection systems circulates, there is a much >higher flow-rate than with carburetor systems that must only fuel what >the motor needs at the moment. >Could it be that the pumps that are designed for carburetors can't keep >up, and thus they burn out? Then the lack of decent flow can in turn >burn out the fuel injection pump? Maybe the fuel injection pump is >fighting even a good low-pressure pump and thus burns out? >I have figured out that MY (maybe not yours) low pressure pumps will >only pump to their capacity and no more (even if you try to "suck" more >out of them.) I figure this because if you unplug the power from them >and remove the fuel hose, not a drop will come out, even with a full >tank. I think this would definitely put a strain on the high pressure >pump if the low pressure pump could not keep up with its capacity. Tom, the pumps I'm familiar with are "gerotor" types. I.e. they are like oil pumps .... not impeller types, and they seal pretty tightly -- that's how they manage to build up pressure. That's also why you can't suck any (or not very much) through them. I installed the Holley ProJection and had no problems, until I started having problems ;-) My Bronco was stalling after driving for awhile. Holley replaced the pump (I had a fuel pressure gauge on it and it showed low pressure when I stalled). The new pump worked great for a day or so and then it was back to the same ole same ole. Then I installed a Holley Red pump (actually a Holley LOUD pump) before their supplied Carter inline pump. That made it go farther before it stalled. I finally disassembled the whole danged system -- including taking the gas tank and the pickup off. Checked the pickup filter sock. It looked okay, but I replaced it anyway. That was the only thing I hadn't replaced .... it worked great ever after that. [I later put the old sock in gasoline and it appeared that there was something on it that swelled up in the petrol and clogged it slightly.] All that to say that I believe I'd be okay with the single Carter pump -- though the output pressure is definitely more stable with 7 psig input rather atmospheric, and several books I've read about the Holley system suggest putting the Holley red in front. But, I also think you have noted a distinct possibility that when one fails it could cause starvation in the other and subsequent failure of it also. Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 12:29:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA17671; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:18:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA17660; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:18:16 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA25882; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:17:24 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 07:17:24 -0500 Message-Id: <9707081217.AA25882@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Jim, you're sending those undecipherable attachments with your e-mail (see bottom) 8^) >Neil wrote: >>I wonder if an O2 sensor with an integrated heater would help? > >I don't think the heater will control to a constant temperature. The OEMs use the heater to allow them to go closed loop faster on the Federal Test Procedure (FTP) tests which reduces emissions. Without a heater the controller must wait for exhaust gases to heat the zirconia element to its operating temperature which is too far into the test for them. you'd need some feedback -- a thermistor or such and then a control circuit for the heater. If the mfgrs would use a PTC thermistor (probably can't make one that'd stand the heat) or use a ferrite's Curie point a-la the Weller soldering iron temperature control elements -- but now we're just wishing. [ snip ] >Jim Boughton >boughton@bignet.net > > >Attachment Converted: C:\UTCONN\EUDORA\ATTACHMENTS\REIntrod > Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 13:32:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA17890; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:26:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.mustangeng.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA17885; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 09:26:42 -0400 Received: from mustangeng.com. by mail.mustangeng.com (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ea081982 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 08:26:19 -0500 Received: from MEI-Message_Server by mustangeng.com with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 08 Jul 1997 08:26:12 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 08:23:47 -0500 From: James Thorne To: diy_efi Subject: Injected CNG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi How short our collective memories. Wasn't it , umm, last week that we had a post from a fellow in Houston who had done exactly that? He used CNG, regulated it down to about 100psi rail pressure, and two sets of Ford MS injectors per cyl, claimed 625 hp from a 302 Mustang, which he still has, and invited people to come and inspect. That was this list wasn't it? Or was it the Ford list....? possibly befuddled, Brian ______________________________________________________ That was me. You are correct the discussion was on this list. I thought it odd that no one else noticed that we had covered this just last week. James Thorne From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 14:18:19 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA01128; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:15:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from carlton.innotts.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA01123; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 10:15:35 -0400 Received: from 163.177.12.216 (eng1-002.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.43.2]) by carlton.innotts.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA27085 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:15:33 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <33C24BCC.27555E6A@innotts.co.uk> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 15:16:55 +0100 From: Richard Cartledge Organization: fac51 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Info needed on Lucas single-point efi X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I am looking for any info on the web or books on LUCAS Single-point fuel injection. I can find mech abou the BOSCH L-jet on my '86 BMW, but nothing for my friends '91 River 820SLi 16v. His car is doing 11mpg, so I want to help him sort this out ASAP. Thanks for any info, Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 17:36:46 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA02575; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:28:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA02570; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:28:04 -0400 Received: from oroboros.demon.co.uk ([158.152.100.96]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1307080; 8 Jul 97 18:22 BST Message-ID: Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:00:22 +0100 To: diy_efi From: Chris Morriss Subject: Re: analog EFI In-Reply-To: <0ECX7NG8T00FZ7@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Trial Version 3.03a Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi In message <0ECX7NG8T00FZ7@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz>, Simon Quested writes >Hi All > >I have a '73 Ford Capri with a 2L 4 cyl engine I also have an analog >EFI system that I am about to put in. It uses a map sensor and a >pickup from the -ve of the coil to control only the fuel. It has 6 >pots that set the on time for the injectors over the rev range. > >I want to put a MSD ignition module in but I think that this will cause the efi >ecm to freak out? > >Am I right in thinking this? > >Thanks > >Simon >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) > Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support > Centre for Computing and Biometrics > LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND > Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ It may not. I'm not sure which of the MSD units do the "multiple spark discharge" thing to the coil. I don't think they all do. If it is a multiple discharge type then it probably will screw up the trigger signal to the efi unit. It may depend on the time constant of the input filter in the unit. Is it not possible to trigger the EFI unit from the MSD ignition trigger? I don't know if this is a Hall effect trigger or the variable reluctance type, but it will give you one pulse per cylinder. It's a pity that the MSD module doesn't put out a trigger-output pulse for the synchronisation of external EFI units. (It might do that of course, perhaps someone else might know) bye, -- Chris Morriss From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 18:15:10 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA02807; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:07:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA02802; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:07:55 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA25924; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:07:03 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:07:03 -0500 Message-Id: <9707081807.AA25924@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: analog EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >In message <0ECX7NG8T00FZ7@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz>, Simon Quested > writes >>Hi All >> >>I have a '73 Ford Capri with a 2L 4 cyl engine I also have an analog >>EFI system that I am about to put in. It uses a map sensor and a >>pickup from the -ve of the coil to control only the fuel. It has 6 >>pots that set the on time for the injectors over the rev range. >> >>I want to put a MSD ignition module in but I think that this will cause the efi >>ecm to freak out? check out http://www.msdignition.com/ or e-mail msdign@msdignition.com/ Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 18:19:45 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA02979; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:18:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA02973; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:18:15 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17646; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:17:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:17:23 -0500 Message-Id: <9707081817.AA17646@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: analog EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi oops, don't put the "/" on the end of the e-mail address >>I want to put a MSD ignition module in but I think that this will cause the efi >>ecm to freak out? check out http://www.msdignition.com/ or e-mail WRONG msdign@msdignition.com/ ++++ WRONG msdign@msdignition.com Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 19:04:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA03257; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:01:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA03252; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:01:27 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by GI.COM (PMDF V5.1-8 #7516) with SMTP id <01IKZRQZJSRMA73FY0@GI.COM> for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 12:01:13 PDT Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <33C28E5C@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Tue, 08 Jul 1997 12:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 10:38:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: ECU Box info To: "diy_efi (postings)" Message-id: <33C28E5C@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Encoding: 21 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Bruce, I have a book called Mitchell's Electronic Fuel Injection, Troubleshooting Guide, Import Vehicles, which shows the pinouts for many European and Japanese cars. It is published by Fisher Books, 1989. (It is listed on the EFI web page) It shows a "1987-88 Sentra E16i", but it is throttle body FI so probably not what you want. It also lists various Nissan models as being L-Jetronic for model years 1976 through 88. Maybe one of these diagrams will match your car. For example, the 200SX or Stanza (both are listed) might be the same as the Sentra. Check your local bookstore, they might have a copy. Or else I could send you the details of one model if you know which one. Bryan Zublin From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 19:05:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA03283; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:04:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA03277; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:04:10 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.14] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ua190600 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:07:31 -0400 Received: by port14.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8BB0.0B9EE940@port14.tnt1.bignet.net>; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:03:08 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC8BB0.0B9EE940@port14.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:03:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8BB0.0BC07B00" X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BB0.0BC07B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry about the attachment, but I have no idea how it got there! I hope = it doesn't show up all the time. Tom Cloud wrote >Jim, you're sending those undecipherable attachments with >your e-mail (see bottom) =20 >you'd need some feedback -- a thermistor or such and then a >control circuit for the heater. If the mfgrs would use a PTC >thermistor (probably can't make one that'd stand the heat) >or use a ferrite's Curie point a-la the Weller soldering iron >temperature control elements -- but now we're just wishing. Actually, I am working on a temperature compensated oxygen sensor for = fuel/air measurement in the rich region. Getting the oxygen sensor with = a built in thermocouple has been the most difficult part. I am curious = why you didn't suggest a thermocouple for temperature measurement? It = seems the best method to me, but I've been wrong many times before:-). Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BB0.0BC07B00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IggTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9uICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwBfDQEFgAMADgAA AM0HBwAIAA8AAwADAAIA+gABIIADAA4AAADNBwcACAAOADUAOgACAGIBAQmAAQAhAAAARTc3ODRG N0RBMUY3RDAxMUEzMTM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA3wYBA5AGACgFAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkA4M+kj9GLvAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9u ICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbyL0Y+DfU946PehEdCjE0RFU1QA AAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABib3VnaHRvbkBiaWduZXQubmV0AAMA BhDuv7LJAwAHENYCAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABTT1JSWUFCT1VUVEhFQVRUQUNITUVOVCxCVVRJSEFW RU5PSURFQUhPV0lUR09UVEhFUkVJSE9QRUlURE9FU05UU0hPV1VQQUxMVEhFVElNRVRPTUNMT1VE V1JPVEVKSU0sWU9VAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAoAMAAJwDAACLBgAATFpGddagGLT/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKD AFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EW DzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRHQvyYwBABgAFsHJ5IMcBoAhgBUB0aGUbQAJAjQDQaAeA AjAsIGIbgRRJIBGAdhvQbm8gqmkNsGEdAG8H4GkFQExnbxuTFhAhIBzibyZwG9AeIWRvB5BuJ6UF QHMd4nVwG0BsAyA1G7J0B3EuCoUKi2xpTDM2DfAZ3yBUA3AgwkMVoHVkIHcDYBPQXQqFPiMdE1Al AWMFQErrB3AckHkIYCcWECAgCfDqZAuAZxuhbxGwIHAoAO8FkAUgHqEBoGwb2gQgA/B/G7AKhyM/ Ja8mtSdxBcBl9i0AwAMRKBGwG9AG4AJA/QNwKSGMKx0h6CyPJuIxP28rzyzfJ4EkwG4J4CTAcysD cBvQZjahYgDQayDsLS0bQB6DbQQALxAFwPkFsXN1EXAbQCgAG6IDoP5hMx80LyYuBaACMANgAyDx KQByY3UeIQIQBcAbslcbwBvwBJAuHvFmG6NtrmYJwCpRCGBsJMB1KJHxHcBQVEM57zr/Ji44Gd4o JqE3cAJgGzBjAHAgAb0AwGsb0AIgIRERgHQ2Yf8TwDlFPnMvRkFPQl8mlwWxT0BENzAbEB4gZScE IEMxCHIgcG8LgAVAYS3zC2Abo1dlIMAEkDbRQBD/BnEoMT2QAiBHn0ivQv8T4PsfUClQdAhwG9A9 Bk1AE+DfKiM3wRyyHWAH4HdLoCex7mpAQAVAA/FoKCEhfU7v1RrBQSbwdSCxeRyQHPDmYSRgP+By aygiAiA34h9Ru1HBAIA+oSTAb3h5vmc5oSfhNuAFwD4CZgpQ3GwvC3AFwAeAYTjwFhB/HFIdgAOg G7IFEDkRFhBn9mkCID7hRxHAITAoM0XRf1rLKnI34RywAxBdBjhAb98FoCCAKYERgAQgYgnhPzT3 KIAfkQaQZl2gQAAFQAqxfnQ+4lgiPbAFEAhgKlFolxswJ3Fi8WQf83VnWuC/VKE39WFmPgNRuVxp Px7x+yARCeBtBCAbsmIgVKEHgN8oYTlhHXAHgByVJx0xYiN/JOEoMQOBGzAhMmICPgFlmDotKSF9 JyEgQghgPGdoLxBOdhthbwNAYvxpZzaQY9BwgVA/Mr0ijxdxfwqjFTEAdaADABAQAAAAAAMAERAA AAAAQAAHMOBXA0vQi7wBQAAIMOBXA0vQi7wBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAABLiA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BB0.0BC07B00-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 19:28:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA03340; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:23:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA03335; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:23:20 -0400 From: Formeister@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA13657 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970708152312_-1461076648@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Hydraulic to Hp Conversion (again) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Appologies Could someone please send me the formula for converting hydraulic flow at a certain pressure that was just posted for the person creating a fluid drive go-kart. I didn't realize I would need this so soon and tossed it. Or, if anyone offhand would know the Hp required to drive a belt driven SPICA mechanical fuel injection pump at WOT for a 1800cc engine producing 132 Hp with one injector per cylinder (popping pressure of approx 320 psi). Fuel injection feed pump pressure around 60 psi. TIA, Frank Formeister From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 19:39:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA03383; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:36:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA03378; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 15:36:27 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA18072; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:35:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:35:36 -0500 Message-Id: <9707081935.AA18072@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi yeah, they're on all your posts ... >Sorry about the attachment, but I have no idea how it got there! I hope it doesn't show up all the time. > >Tom Cloud wrote >>Jim, you're sending those undecipherable attachments with >>your e-mail (see bottom) > > > >>you'd need some feedback -- a thermistor or such and then a >>control circuit for the heater. If the mfgrs would use a PTC >>thermistor (probably can't make one that'd stand the heat) >>or use a ferrite's Curie point a-la the Weller soldering iron >>temperature control elements -- but now we're just wishing. > > Actually, I am working on a temperature compensated oxygen sensor for fuel/air measurement in the rich region. Getting the oxygen sensor with a built in thermocouple has been the most difficult part. I am curious why you didn't suggest a thermocouple for temperature measurement? It seems the best method to me, but I've been wrong many times before:-). I thought I did mention a thermocouple, but after reading the above, I see I screwed up several ways. A PTC thermistor or ferro-magnetic controller are both self-contained temperature regulators and wouldn't require any external controller -- unless you wanted more precise control than they afford. The thermocouple obviously requires external signal conditioning and then a controller for the heater. It is my understanding that EGO sensors are more "accurate" (i.e. better defined) at known temperatures, but are they accurate enough to warrant the hassle of either measuring or regulating the temperature ?? Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 21:00:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA03573; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:57:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail2.isdnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA03568; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:57:35 -0400 Received: from vectra (ppp33.mel.hol.fr [194.149.180.172]) by mail2.isdnet.net (8.8.5/Havas On Line) with SMTP id WAA01343 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:57:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <33C2AA7F.6B44@hol.fr> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 23:00:47 +0200 From: collet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E [fr]-HAVAS1 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: about Bosch L Jectronic X-URL: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/subscribing.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dear, I was suprised and enjoy to see diy_efi, it doesn't exist in France. So I will enjoy if any body can help me about the Bosch L Jectronic system. I would like to know if an electronic schema exist or not. On the board we can see two specific component: firt one is used for transform the primary signal for ignition and the other one I don't no it's like an hybrid, so by what can I change this two component? Thank you From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 21:18:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA03705; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:16:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA03700; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 17:16:05 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id QAA12302 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:16:03 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:16:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707082116.QAA12302@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ven-ca1-05.ix.netcom.com(205.186.74.37) by dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma012286; Tue Jul 8 16:15:35 1997 X-Sender: fcmtb@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Have you thought about looking at the resistance of the built in heater element. I put an amp meter on mine once and could see the current drop as the sensor got hotter.(have an egt gauge too) I thought I heard though that the accepted way to measure the temp was via the sensor's output impedance. I've got info somewhere on a O2 interface chip that looks at output impedance to determine when the sensor is warmed up enough to go on line. Fred > Actually, I am working on a temperature compensated oxygen sensor for fuel/air measurement in the rich region. Getting the oxygen sensor with a built in thermocouple has been the most difficult part. I am curious why you didn't suggest a thermocouple for temperature measurement? It seems the best method to me, but I've been wrong many times before:-). > >Jim Boughton >boughton@bignet.net > >Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\ATTACHME\REIntro2 > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 8 23:12:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA04284; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:08:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melete.ch.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA04277; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 19:08:17 -0400 Received: from chmail.ch.intel.com by melete.ch.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:08:16 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by chmail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id QAA18751 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 16:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.ch.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Tue, 08 Jul 97 16:02:58 PDT Date: Tue, 08 Jul 97 16:03:00 PDT From: Mark Eidson Message-ID: To: diy_efi Subject: Re[2]: A question on EFI theory Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Text item: Thanks Jim, The Whipple is a positive displacement type supercharger and you have confirmed my thinking. Thinking about it some more having the MAP sensor between the throttle body and a turbo inlet probably would not work because the turbo's output pressure is not known at a given engine RPM. me ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: A question on EFI theory Author: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu at SMTPGATE Date: 7/4/97 10:18 AM ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8863.A2FC12E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, I am not familiar with the Whipple supercharger, but I would guess its = performance characteristics to be the same as any positive displacement = type supercharger (correct me if I am wrong). If you look in John = Heywood's book "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals" on page 258 you = will find a performance map of a roots blower as well as the equation = relating volumetric efficiency to several other parameters. The figure = in the book indicates that, knowing the mass flow rate (i.e. throttle = position), the rpm, and the upstream pressure for the supercharger, you = have a known output pressure from the supercharger. Thus it should be = no problem to calibrate for the system you mentioned. This is simple = theory, and you may find with some experience that things are not quite = so simple, but if you designed your own system any other problems should = not be hard to overcome. Good Luck, Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ---------- From: Mark Eidson[SMTP:Mark_Eidson@ccm.ch.intel.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 1997 8:52 AM To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: A question on EFI theory Text item: =20 If one were to design a system from scratch and have complete control = over fuel=20 maps, etc., could a system be made that measured the MAP between the = throttle=20 body and supercharger rather than at the intake manifold? Could the = fuel map be designed to compensate for the increased volumetric efficency of the=20 supercharger at a given RPM and MAP? =20 Putting it another way could I use my Holley 4di throttle body on a = Whipple=20 supercharger on a small block chevy with the MAP and vacuum taken off = the=20 throttle body port rather than the intake manifold? Thanks, me. Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: Subject: TPI and Jags That Run To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X-Sender: jhaag@odin.cair.du.edu From: John Haag Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by odin.cair.du.edu; id AA27138; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:47:16 = -0600 Received: from odin.cair.du.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP = (940816.S GI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA25526; Tue, 1 Jul = 1997 17:47 :20 -0400 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA25531; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:47:24 GMT Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by thalia.fm.intel.com = (8.8.4/10.0i); Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:45:29 GMT Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com = [132.233.247.11]) by chm ail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13048 for = ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 15:40:33 -0700 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Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8863.A2FC12E0" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:18:33 -0400 Subject: RE: A question on EFI theory To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" From: James Boughton Message-ID: <01BC8863.A2EB4A00@port211.tnt1.bignet.net> Received: by port211.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8863.A2EB4A00@port211.tnt1.bignet.net>; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:18:37 -0 400 Received: from [204.254.121.211] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with E SMTP id la188355 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:27 :37 -0400 Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (9408 16.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA01982; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 10:24 :38 -0400 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA01987; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 14:24:44 GMT Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Fri, 4 Jul 1997 15:43:35 GMT Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by chm ail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA17514 for ; Fri, 4 Jul 1997 08:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 01:37:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA04721; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:29:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA04716; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 21:29:14 -0400 Received: from javer96 (ppp118.snowcrest.net [207.201.18.150]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA29966 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 18:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707090129.SAA29966@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: RE:RE:fuel pump Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All More detail about fuel system. Pu has two tanks, no socks on pickups. A fuel filter on each line to cross over valve. Then to low press pump, which feed small storage tank - 1.5 qts. Thur another fuel filter into high press pump, from there into high press fuel filter. Goes up to fuel rail\press reg back to small tank. The tank also has return to tank via crossover. The heat is coming from exhaust pipe about 12 inch away from frame rail where all this is mounted. Problem occurs in hot temp in slow traffic. Will finish heat shield made out of aluminum tomorrow. Hope this helps. Have considered installing high press pump in both tanks, but most electric cross over valves are only rated at 60 psi. 50 psi at engine is probably 100 psi at pump. Thank for all the help Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 02:26:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA04978; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:22:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA04973; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:22:27 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.204] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ja190797 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:25:58 -0400 Received: by port204.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8BED.4DFA71A0@port204.tnt1.bignet.net>; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:21:39 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC8BED.4DFA71A0@port204.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:21:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8BED.4E23A480" X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BED.4E23A480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't get the attachment when I receive my posts! I am lost! If you = have any ideas on how to remedy this please help me. I use Microsoft = Exchange for my mail reader. I have had some problems with Internet = Explorer, but none with Exchange. I don't even know where to look for = this problem. As far as Exhaust Gas Oxygen (EGO) sensors go the manufacturers who = supply these for furnace control go to the extra effort of supplying a = thermocouple with their sensors. They also claim very good accuracy, = however, the spec. I have is for 700=B0C to 1700=B0C which is just the = top end for exhaust gases. I guess the answer is that I am not sure, but am willing to try. I = learn something new every day. >It is my understanding that EGO sensors are more "accurate" >(i.e. better defined) at known temperatures, but are they >accurate enough to warrant the hassle of either measuring >or regulating the temperature ?? >Tom Cloud Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BED.4E23A480 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IicCAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9uICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwBfDQEFgAMADgAA AM0HBwAIABYAFQAfAAIALwEBIIADAA4AAADNBwcACAAWAAsAGAACAB4BAQmAAQAhAAAAQTUzOUZD NzFERUY3RDAxMUEzMTM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA6QYBA5AGAHgFAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAYJfK0A6MvAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9u ICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbyMDtCYcfw5pvfeEdCjE0RFU1QA AAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABib3VnaHRvbkBiaWduZXQubmV0AAMA BhD5Jw5FAwAHEA8DAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJRE9OVEdFVFRIRUFUVEFDSE1FTlRXSEVOSVJFQ0VJ VkVNWVBPU1RTSUFNTE9TVElGWU9VSEFWRUFOWUlERUFTT05IT1dUT1JFTUVEWVRISVNQTEVBU0VI RUxQTUVJVVNFTUlDAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA7gMAAOoDAABEBgAATFpGdUXUfn3/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKD AFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EW DzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRHQvyYwBAAzABkSBJICpkAiAnBUBnEcAgdLBoZSBhAkAA 0GgHgHkCMCB3HBADoBtAFhBjCGVpdhwgbXkgcCJvE8BzISAbMWFtjiAVoBPAHmJmIHkIYF4gEYAd sQBwHfBpDbBhlwQgAiAfsG8H4HRvHVG9B4BkHfAcAAQAHgBsIHGTHCAcEGxwHdBlLh5ysnUiUU1p BQAeIG8BgPggRXgRcRkQHCACEAXA7x3hAMADERYQYQSBIvMfw/kRgGQgI9AHgB4AA2ACYP8T4AQg A/AcABswAjAEkRvRDyQgC1AFsASQLCBidf0FQG4CIBwgJ5MkJiLzG2T2ZR2wA6BrKVAH4BzxFhBz IRIVoG9rJKMhxCcULusKhhsCQQQgZgrBIIEkIBcRgCNABUBHIIFPeHmDG8ADoChFR08pJqB/CfAj 0BGgG7AhMBwCA4F1+S6gY3QIcASQJ3Eg4CagvHVwC1AhogeQJJRmCHD+bgDQHCAFoAIwA2ADIDEi 6TE0ZXg0cGErEA3QFbFvIKAfYDK0C4BnHDAb8nK/BGAFoDLAIiAnhBwBaQXA+zClIvFUHBAd8AdA I9A0MPcLYR7AHbByHfAxIARwHDDsY2MIcADQeSjwIOErIfMo4RwCc3AFkCLwJgUh4QkksjcwDfAn YjBDfSESMT2XHPAjkCfAIeFq/y9SHAIhICKwCfAmkCSyNWC9LzRnIkE5AC26G0BnClD/BBEcAwCA O6AFwCHhHAAcQP8ehClQBUAysBYQKPQesQPw/GxsNsI08jpgIvMiIQShfyayIcE20SgwB+A7sh3w ZO5hRlAKhUicPhnNJwET0N8x8BswBUAh4R3hdUBgMjH/AZBAYEXDQ+IwUTCXCsAdwdkosSAiOuQT 0CIKi0WwPDM2SsEZ70nvSvUoafouIuFiEcAoARtQDcALgP8JgDCAQ/ErcgOgE9E8YE7B/TIRc0T1 K/I5UQqHUF9Rb29K9U6GQEEIYGc4ISEwd/8KwDWQHMEcAhGABBA3wTYx/x2QNyIiwSCACHEZEFZ/ V4/fSm4FsRYQQpALYHRMlCwB8VToID8/SJxdn16vStdSVANwIEMVoHUmkDw7OeBmMUA8YBxxQYFw aB4uKSA1YCCAUwBkdT5fYr8L4mKoGZ8ao0o6EUI7WkIhIG5ppQbga/RAYvRpZygxLigxTx9QLkrm C2mlFTEAcTAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcw4H+0Zg2MvAFAAAgw4H+0Zg2MvAEeAD0AAQAA AAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAqg ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BED.4E23A480-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 02:28:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA05003; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:25:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailhub.omen.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA04998; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:25:36 -0400 Received: from wattsg (pbg@ttyE62.quokka.omen.com.au [203.15.92.63]) by mailhub.omen.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05442 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:25:32 +0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:26:23 -0000 Message-ID: <01BC8C52.8CE5AB40@geoff@omen.com.au> From: Geoff Watts To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: RE:fuel pump Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:26:23 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4008 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Not vapour lock? - how big/small are your lines? geoff -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Rose [SMTP:javer96@snowcrest.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 1997 1:29 AM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: RE:RE:fuel pump Hi All More detail about fuel system. Pu has two tanks, no socks on pickups. A fuel filter on each line to cross over valve. Then to low press pump, which feed small storage tank - 1.5 qts. Thur another fuel filter into high press pump, from there into high press fuel filter. Goes up to fuel rail\press reg back to small tank. The tank also has return to tank via crossover. The heat is coming from exhaust pipe about 12 inch away from frame rail where all this is mounted. Problem occurs in hot temp in slow traffic. Will finish heat shield made out of aluminum tomorrow. Hope this helps. Have considered installing high press pump in both tanks, but most electric cross over valves are only rated at 60 psi. 50 psi at engine is probably 100 psi at pump. Thank for all the help Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 02:34:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA05032; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:31:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from donkeykong.rs.itd.umich.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA05027; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:31:34 -0400 Received: by donkeykong.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.0-mailhub) id WAA00298; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fparker@gorf.rs.itd.umich.edu(141.211.63.89) by donkeykong.rs.itd.umich.edu via smap (2.0-umich) id xma000292; Tue, 8 Jul 97 22:31:30 -0400 Received: from localhost by gorf.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.5-client) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:31:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank F Parker X-Sender: fparker@gorf.rs.itd.umich.edu To: diy_efi Subject: RE: O2 sensor output vs temp vs impedance In-Reply-To: <199707082116.QAA12302@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Tue, 8 Jul 1997, Fred Miranda wrote: > I thought I heard though that the accepted way to measure the temp was via > the sensor's > output impedance. I've got info somewhere on a O2 interface chip that looks > at output > impedance to determine when the sensor is warmed up enough to go on line. > Fred, Would be interested in that IC chip #. I know that NAtional makes some o2 sensor interface chips. The answer on whether to control sensor temp for accurate a/f measurements is an emphatic YES- you must do that. I have a enginering graph from Bosch for their LSM-11 sensor which is specially made for rich field a/f measurements. It is their Motorsports sensor. It does , however, have about the same output curve as a std production O2 sensor. This graph shows internal resistance of sensor changes as follows: SENSOR INTERNAL RESISTANCE TEMP 10 ohms 900 deg C 35 ohms 750 deg C 120 ohms 650 deg C This results in the following change in a/f for a particular output voltage, say 0.78 volts. VOLT A/F TEMP 0.78 13.23 900 deg C 0.78 14.11 750 deg C 0.78 14.41 650 deg C Thus you can see that there is over a 1 a/f # change if you do not control the temp. Bosch does in their high $ LA-2 meter and so does Bob Bailey in his $1000 O2 meter that uses the LSM-11. I have one of these and have had it checked on a dyno against both a MOTEC a/f meter( $5000) and the measured air and fuel flows. It was very close to the measured values. $1000 is not cheap, but way less than any other ACCURATE meter and mandatory if you are to do any serious tuning with a DFI or major mods of a production efi. Hope this helps. Frank Parker fparker@umich.edu PS: Very good book on automotive sensors (including O2) is "Automotive Electronics Handbook" by Jurgen, ISBN:0-07-033189-8 fp From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 02:34:55 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA05039; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 02:32:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA05034; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:32:22 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.204] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id sa190806 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:35:58 -0400 Received: by port204.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8BEE.B3041DC0@port204.tnt1.bignet.net>; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:31:38 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC8BEE.B3041DC0@port204.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:31:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC8BEE.B31E0E60" X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BEE.B31E0E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well I see Fred also receives "the attachment" :-) I see it says = something about eudora. I don't use eudora so I am wondering if this is = on your machine? =09 >Have you thought about looking at the resistance of the built in heater = element. >I put an amp meter on mine once and could see the current drop as the = sensor got >hotter.(have an egt gauge too) Yes, I looked at the resistance of the heater, but it was fairly slow to = respond and only changed from 6 ohms to around 12 ohms which I was = concerned about trying to measure since changes in lengths of the leads = could have a large effect on the output. >I thought I heard though that the accepted way to measure the temp was = via >the sensor's >output impedance. I've got info somewhere on a O2 interface chip that = looks >at output >impedance to determine when the sensor is warmed up enough to go on = line. >Fred Yes, I suppose you could check the impedence of the sensor, but the main = point of measuring temperature is to improve accuracy as opposed to = determine the sensors readiness. If you look at the Nernst equation it = is linear with temperature. Also, according to Heywood the exhaust gas = oxygen partial pressure is also a function of temperature (above and = beyond the function that is associated with the sensor output). All I = can say is I hope it works :-) It has to be more accurate than a = standard oxygen sensor. >> Actually, I am working on a temperature compensated oxygen sensor for fuel/air measurement in the rich region. Getting the oxygen sensor with = a built in thermocouple has been the most difficult part. I am curious = why you didn't suggest a thermocouple for temperature measurement? It seems = the best method to me, but I've been wrong many times before:-). >> >>Jim Boughton >>boughton@bignet.net >> >>Attachment Converted: C:\EUDORA\ATTACHME\REIntro2 >> Jim Boughton - again! ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BEE.B31E0E60 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IiYCAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AGQBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AFNNVFAAZGl5X2VmaUBj b3Vsb21iLmVuZy5vaGlvLXN0YXRlLmVkdQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAACMA AABkaXlfZWZpQGNvdWxvbWIuZW5nLm9oaW8tc3RhdGUuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgAB MAEAAAAlAAAAJ2RpeV9lZmlAY291bG9tYi5lbmcub2hpby1zdGF0ZS5lZHUnAAAAAAIBCzABAAAA KAAAAFNNVFA6RElZX0VGSUBDT1VMT01CLkVORy5PSElPLVNUQVRFLkVEVQADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoB AAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAAAAAAA9xNAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgB BIABACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9uICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwBfDQEFgAMADgAA AM0HBwAIABYAHwAjAAIAPQEBIIADAA4AAADNBwcACAAWABcAHQACAC8BAQmAAQAhAAAAQTkzOUZD NzFERUY3RDAxMUEzMTM0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA7QYBA5AGAKQHAAASAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAA AAsAKQAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAoEd7OBCMvAEeAHAAAQAAACcAAABSRTogSW50cm9kdWN0aW9u ICYgTzIgU2Vuc29yIFF1ZXN0aW9ucwAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAbyMEDhicfw5qvfeEdCjE0RFU1QA AAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQAAABib3VnaHRvbkBiaWduZXQubmV0AAMA BhARjBENAwAHEMcFAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABXRUxMSVNFRUZSRURBTFNPUkVDRUlWRVMiVEhFQVRU QUNITUVOVCI6LSlJU0VFSVRTQVlTU09NRVRISU5HQUJPVVRFVURPUkFJRE9OVFVTRUVVRE9SQVNP SUFNV09OREVSSU5HAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAGwYAABcGAADEDAAATFpGdde8WY3/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKD AFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EW DzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRhQvyYwBAIFdlbAMgREkgEbBlIEYWESARB0BzbyAWEGNl aaJ2B5EidGgbgGECQA0A0GgHgAIwIiA6LZQpIBs1aQVAc2ETsNcbUANwEcBoC4BnG+AG4CJ1BUBl dWQFsGEu0x4SIDBuJwVAdRGwIAXDHwEbMWFtIHcCIASBex9yBpAgH1EEICNBAiAgmnkIYSAAwR9h ZT8KiyBsaTE4MALRaS34MTQ0DfAM0CYTGd8DMMcBkQrhC2gxNiAKhyhqNwqgA2AT0GMFQCStMzab Jr8awT4sPSqWSGEckOcjwiMRCGBnaAVAH7QVoPxvax9zBUAc4hYQAJATwJ8AcBxgI5AjAhuAYnUD EHsFQAuAIBzwHSAEkCAAbHsT4B2RLik9LL8tzxsxcPcf4QORIiBwJBARwDMxI6F+bSRhI5ExwQBw G9AFoHXubBvQG2Ic4mMIcBYQAjD3ILADYDewYQQgHOIRsACA/QWxZyqwM+80/y3uL4ACQDkEkC4o EYAvAQORZWe5BUBnYS+gOcEwYCk8D6cL4isMPI8gWQeQLBsx/zBSG8Iw7zH1MvREgDJgMqEVBUB3 OvFmC3BybHnfG1AVoAfgQMBFknAiYTjzvwIgSDERcRkQG8EDUiApEH5vHXA7ARwgCsAIYDkRMfsR 4Erjdx9gEXAbMUeyBaCPMbEEoBvCH8N0cnkfcv9IsQeAOvAIcDtBC4AxwUn0/yNRA6AzcBkQHOAj gTIEM3D8YWRM8jliP6QwQArAQJH/DcEq0iOhHOIf0TchM9YrH/8sLz1/NmovdhtAMvELIC9l/yMR RTUA0BxgBTAbwUewSEDfTokc4hPRN7BHsnYHMEEP51ZPLe47KCdzXP9eDy3uP1OkHoA3oAmAMaIg cEkn/y8BO9EysQIQHwNMUASQOJL9UjFPEeALgDMhR/BPYwUg/1nUMFJgz2HfYu9FMVOkaK//ab8t 7mRnSKINsDMhOGNmMb9TRDtlI0FHsHCAG8F1N7D/CfBZlBwgO9AjkiVwJHBUD/9s723/KqUbonR/ Qh9070Q3/U7gcEkQITEvMjlEEXAFkP5rRVNkYwnwMcg7ZEckHOL/AMAywUkQZxEx4k60TkNcQf8E kB0gTvIjQUixZGEDYD/C/1qACHAA0EhAOvE6wHvCWVH/cCo7KAQgFhBRUCRhBBAgcv8jAC8yMFJF JgfABKATwCAA9HF1HSBpI6EekSNBc7LfCsED8BzggNogcUEcAUSAj1pxBbCFgU5jSGV5IlDzBHBF U2V4EYAhIEBCI4H8eHlAkH+RCsCH8AdANxDfRaFO4yNBG/MhsGZLkCrgd4gCMfKA+SgfsT/DG9Bi f4uASSIc4o8XWeOOcgQQb75jBzBaw4kjOzhTpCmKE/0bImMDkR7BI2JY8TrAHnP9IlByaIAd1T8B OvIcIJFA/yQQBbCCZhPQWdJmojGCZKD/WUGM9Ttkc/9VHy39dh51398uORSwKuCH0BsQeUSCIiP/ lyAfcmaTgOoFoGRxAICTY7+aa0fgBbB5NY8QGwAvSAG/TqYdgjKyRWNMchYQZ4gB/SBxRxHAh/BO UlNypGuJE/9c5jJnHOFwgJMwCGALUEah/zrxkUBxBQRgh4GFgA3QTHD/OWAFQI1iIHMiITohiAAh IN1MQXl5NS8yhYBkIOJO4H5nT9Ev0atspTGA26ZpP/+XkxthSwIc8Kp2sNIfMovC706SRyRlE6yD dwNgH4EDge9bIQdzkUClMWUd4TPWnk9fn18uSLjfue+6/0oHcCD+Qi+TAiC8D70fvi8fwb+j8EBi aWckcDPAw+G//1/BD8IfxF/Fb8Z/QR03IF0IUG4ckAAgCYA6y1A6AFxcRVVET1JBAcwwQVRUQUNI TWJFzDBSRUkCMANgMj/Hj8ifya90Dxn+vzogLfcb4EBgC4Ahz78qv5xv1S8LCsEVMQDZMAADABAQ AAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMCDpHBcPjLwBQAAIMCDpHBcPjLwBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAAO iQ== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC8BEE.B31E0E60-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 03:38:24 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA05179; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:28:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA05174; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:28:22 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA04557 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:28:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:28:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707090328.WAA04557@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ven-ca3-60.ix.netcom.com(207.92.176.124) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma004524; Tue Jul 8 22:28:01 1997 X-Sender: fcmtb@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: RE: Introduction & "the attachment" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Yeah, I get this stuff all the time. I just ignore it and clear out the directory once and a while ;-) I think some have figured out how to turn it off though.(senders that is) Fred At 10:31 PM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >Well I see Fred also receives "the attachment" :-) I see it says something about eudora. I don't use eudora so I am wondering if this is on your machine? From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 03:38:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA05164; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:26:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wagner.mtco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA05159; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:26:29 -0400 Received: from 169-218-73.ipt.aol.com (169-218-73.ipt.aol.com [152.169.218.73]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.8.5/8.5.9) with SMTP id WAA20104 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:26:24 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:26:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707090326.WAA20104@wagner.mtco.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.mtco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: analog EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi The MSD ignitions that are multi spark have a open collector tach output. Just use that to run the EFI unit. >In message <0ECX7NG8T00FZ7@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz>, Simon Quested > writes >>Hi All >> >>I have a '73 Ford Capri with a 2L 4 cyl engine I also have an analog >>EFI system that I am about to put in. It uses a map sensor and a >>pickup from the -ve of the coil to control only the fuel. It has 6 >>pots that set the on time for the injectors over the rev range. >> >>I want to put a MSD ignition module in but I think that this will cause the efi >>ecm to freak out? >> >>Am I right in thinking this? >> >>Thanks >> >>Simon >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) >> Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support >> Centre for Computing and Biometrics >> LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND >> Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >It may not. I'm not sure which of the MSD units do the "multiple spark >discharge" thing to the coil. I don't think they all do. If it is a >multiple discharge type then it probably will screw up the trigger >signal to the efi unit. It may depend on the time constant of the input >filter in the unit. >Is it not possible to trigger the EFI unit from the MSD ignition >trigger? I don't know if this is a Hall effect trigger or the variable >reluctance type, but it will give you one pulse per cylinder. It's a >pity that the MSD module doesn't put out a trigger-output pulse for the >synchronisation of external EFI units. (It might do that of course, >perhaps someone else might know) > >bye, >-- >Chris Morriss > > David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 04:30:47 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA05202; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:38:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA05197; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:38:06 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id WAA05940 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:37:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:37:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707090337.WAA05940@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ven-ca3-60.ix.netcom.com(207.92.176.124) by dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma005893; Tue Jul 8 22:37:36 1997 X-Sender: fcmtb@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: RE: O2 sensor output vs temp vs impedance Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi You're right Frank, the info I have is on the National LM9040. They call it a dual lambda interface. Got it from their web site. Also Frank, any way you could put a copy of that graph on the DIY web site so all of us could get a look at it. I have a copy but it's a crappy gif of a fax. Fred At 10:31 PM 7/8/97 -0400, you wrote: >Would be interested in that IC chip #. I know that NAtional makes some >o2 sensor interface chips. > >The answer on whether to control sensor temp for accurate a/f measurements >is an emphatic YES- you must do that. I have a enginering graph from >Bosch for their LSM-11 sensor which is specially made for rich field a/f >measurements. It is their Motorsports sensor. It does , however, have >about the same output curve as a std production O2 sensor. This graph >shows internal resistance of sensor changes as follows: > SENSOR INTERNAL RESISTANCE TEMP > > 10 ohms 900 deg C > 35 ohms 750 deg C > 120 ohms 650 deg C > >This results in the following change in a/f for a particular output >voltage, say 0.78 volts. > > VOLT A/F TEMP > > 0.78 13.23 900 deg C > 0.78 14.11 750 deg C > 0.78 14.41 650 deg C > >Thus you can see that there is over a 1 a/f # change if you do not >control the temp. Bosch does in their high $ LA-2 meter and so does >Bob Bailey in his $1000 O2 meter that uses the LSM-11. I have one of these >and have had it checked on a dyno against both a MOTEC a/f meter( $5000) >and the measured air and fuel flows. It was very close to the measured >values. $1000 is not cheap, but way less than any other ACCURATE meter >and mandatory if you are to do any serious tuning with a DFI or major >mods of a production efi. > >Hope this helps. > >Frank Parker >fparker@umich.edu > >PS: Very good book on automotive sensors (including O2) is "Automotive >Electronics Handbook" by Jurgen, ISBN:0-07-033189-8 > >fp > > > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 06:10:19 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA05373; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 05:52:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA05368; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 01:52:22 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id WAA32663 for ; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 22:51:30 -0700 Message-ID: <33C327B3.5CE8AC4A@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 22:54:59 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions References: <01BC8BED.4DFA71A0@port204.tnt1.bignet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi James Boughton wrote: > > I don't get the attachment when I receive my posts! I am lost! If you have any ideas on how to remedy this please help me. I use Microsoft Exchange for my mail reader. I have had some problems with Internet Explorer, but none with Exchange. I don't even know where to look for this problem. > A couple things. You don't see the attachments, because as far as Exchange is concerned, it is formatting data. The same formatting data that it sends out so that other people running Billybob software, can see all your colored text and fonts and other stuff like that. The other thing is you don't have wrap turned on, so that your lines just go out forever. Again, you don't see that because Exchange wraps it for you when you receive the message. To fix these things (going from memory here from when I used to run Billybob) you need to go into the options dialog, I think it might be under the View menu, and go to the compose or send part of it, and choose plain text as the message format, along with wrap to, oh 72 characters or so. This should get rid of the attachments, because it is no longer sending any formatting data because it is in plain text. Just so you can see what the attachments look like, I have included the one from this message of your that I am replying to below. As you can see, the actual text that you wrote is a tiny part of it. -j- 00000000 789f3e22 27020106 90080004 00000000 x.>"'........... 00000010 00010001 00010790 06000800 0000e404 ................ 00000020 00000000 0000e800 010d8004 00020000 ................ 00000030 00020002 00010490 06006401 00000100 ..........d..... 00000040 00000c00 00000300 00300300 00000b00 .........0...... 00000050 0f0e0000 00000201 ff0f0100 00006300 ..............c. 00000060 00000000 0000812b 1fa4bea3 10199d6e .......+.......n 00000070 00dd010f 54020000 00006469 795f6566 ....T.....diy_ef 00000080 6940636f 756c6f6d 622e656e 672e6f68 i@coulomb.eng.oh 00000090 696f2d73 74617465 2e656475 00534d54 io-state.edu.SMT 000000a0 50006469 795f6566 6940636f 756c6f6d P.diy_efi@coulom 000000b0 622e656e 672e6f68 696f2d73 74617465 b.eng.ohio-state 000000c0 2e656475 00001e00 02300100 00000500 .edu.....0...... 000000d0 0000534d 54500000 00001e00 03300100 ..SMTP.......0.. 000000e0 00002300 00006469 795f6566 6940636f ..#...diy_efi@co 000000f0 756c6f6d 622e656e 672e6f68 696f2d73 ulomb.eng.ohio-s 00000100 74617465 2e656475 00000300 150c0100 tate.edu........ 00000110 00000300 fe0f0600 00001e00 01300100 .............0.. 00000120 00002500 00002764 69795f65 66694063 ..%...'diy_efi@c 00000130 6f756c6f 6d622e65 6e672e6f 68696f2d oulomb.eng.ohio- 00000140 73746174 652e6564 75270000 00000201 state.edu'...... 00000150 0b300100 00002800 0000534d 54503a44 .0....(...SMTP:D 00000160 49595f45 46494043 4f554c4f 4d422e45 IY_EFI@COULOMB.E 00000170 4e472e4f 48494f2d 53544154 452e4544 NG.OHIO-STATE.ED 00000180 55000300 00390000 00000b00 403a0100 U....9......@:.. 00000190 00000201 f60f0100 00000400 00000000 ................ 000001a0 0003dc4d 01088007 00180000 0049504d ...M.........IPM 000001b0 2e4d6963 726f736f 6674204d 61696c2e .Microsoft Mail. 000001c0 4e6f7465 00310801 04800100 27000000 Note.1......'... 000001d0 52453a20 496e7472 6f647563 74696f6e RE: Introduction 000001e0 2026204f 32205365 6e736f72 20517565 & O2 Sensor Que 000001f0 7374696f 6e73005f 0d010580 03000e00 stions._........ 00000200 0000cd07 07000800 16001500 1f000200 ................ 00000210 2f010120 8003000e 000000cd 07070008 /.. ............ 00000220 0016000b 00180002 001e0101 09800100 ................ 00000230 21000000 41353339 46433731 44454637 !...A539FC71DEF7 00000240 44303131 41333133 34343435 35333534 D011A31344455354 00000250 30303030 00e90601 03900600 78050000 0000........x... 00000260 12000000 0b002300 00000000 03002600 ......#.......&. 00000270 00000000 0b002900 00000000 03003600 ......).......6. 00000280 00000000 40003900 6097cad0 0e8cbc01 ....@.9.`....... 00000290 1e007000 01000000 27000000 52453a20 ..p.....'...RE: 000002a0 496e7472 6f647563 74696f6e 2026204f Introduction & O 000002b0 32205365 6e736f72 20517565 7374696f 2 Sensor Questio 000002c0 6e730000 02017100 01000000 16000000 ns....q......... 000002d0 01bc8c0e d09871fc 39a6f7de 11d0a313 ......q.9....... 000002e0 44455354 00000000 1e001e0c 01000000 DEST............ 000002f0 05000000 534d5450 00000000 1e001f0c ....SMTP........ 00000300 01000000 14000000 626f7567 68746f6e ........boughton 00000310 40626967 6e65742e 6e657400 03000610 @bignet.net..... 00000320 f9270e45 03000710 0f030000 1e000810 .'.E............ 00000330 01000000 65000000 49444f4e 54474554 ....e...IDONTGET 00000340 54484541 54544143 484d454e 54574845 THEATTACHMENTWHE 00000350 4e495245 43454956 454d5950 4f535453 NIRECEIVEMYPOSTS 00000360 49414d4c 4f535449 46594f55 48415645 IAMLOSTIFYOUHAVE 00000370 414e5949 44454153 4f4e484f 57544f52 ANYIDEASONHOWTOR 00000380 454d4544 59544849 53504c45 41534548 EMEDYTHISPLEASEH 00000390 454c504d 45495553 454d4943 00000000 ELPMEIUSEMIC.... 000003a0 02010910 01000000 ee030000 ea030000 ................ 000003b0 44060000 4c5a4675 45d47e7d ff000a01 D...LZFuE.~}.... 000003c0 0f021502 a805eb02 83005002 f2090200 ..........P..... 000003d0 63680ac0 73657432 37060006 c3028332 ch..set27......2 000003e0 03c50200 70724271 11e27374 656d0283 ....prBq..stem.. 000003f0 337702e4 07130280 7d0a8008 cf09d93b 3w......}......; 00000400 f1160f32 35350280 0a810db1 0b60e06e ...255.......`.n 00000410 67313033 14500b0a 14511d0b f2630040 g103.P...Q...c.@ 00000420 03300191 2049202a 64022027 05406711 .0.. 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From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 07:19:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA05527; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:11:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail1.isdnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA05522; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:11:17 -0400 Received: from vectra (ppp28.mel.hol.fr [194.149.180.167]) by mail1.isdnet.net (8.8.5/Havas On Line) with SMTP id JAA19097 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:11:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <33C33A79.6BDF@hol.fr> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 09:15:05 +0200 From: collet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E [fr]-HAVAS1 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: (pas d'objet) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dear, I am very suprised and enjoy, to see diy_efi, because it doesn't exist in France. So my question is about the L-Jectronic Bosch system. I would like to know if it's possible to get an electronique schema, because we can see on the board two specifics components: the firt one is for transform the primary signal come from the ignition and the second I don't know it's like an hybrid component so by what can I change those components? Thank you for your help! From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 07:34:56 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA05605; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:26:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA05600; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 03:26:01 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1523850; 9 Jul 97 8:20 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id IAA25863 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:15:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:15:31 +0100 Message-Id: <199707090715.IAA25863@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: Info needed on Lucas single-point efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 15:16 08/07/97 +0100, you wrote: >I am looking for any info on the web or books on LUCAS Single-point fuel >injection. > >I can find mech abou the BOSCH L-jet on my '86 BMW, but nothing for my >friends '91 River 820SLi 16v. > >His car is doing 11mpg, so I want to help him sort this out ASAP. > >Thanks for any info, Richard > > Is your 11mpg accompanied by obviously rich running? May be worth checking the coolant sensor operation, a common problem with earlier Lucas systems; the sensor fails showing a falsely low temperature measurement and hence over rich fuelling. Also has power been disconnected from the ECU? The SPi system has an 'adaptive' fueling control which adjusts gradually for changes in operating conditions and engine condition etc. When power is disconnected the ECU suffers severe amnesia and forgets all it has learnt in one go and takes time to readjust. This is usually apparent from idle exhaust gas CO readings, which default to approx. 6% until reset electronically via the diagnostic connector (no mechanical adjustment available on SPi). As an aside, is the 820SLi actually single point injection? 'i' suffix models are usually multi-point and 'e' suffix single point but this may not be universal. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 09:46:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA05839; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:38:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from carlton.innotts.co.uk by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA05834; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 05:38:06 -0400 Received: from 163.177.12.216 (eng1-007.pool.dircon.co.uk [194.112.43.7]) by carlton.innotts.co.uk (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA10973 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:38:04 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <33C35C0B.2DBD937@innotts.co.uk> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 10:39:20 +0100 From: Richard Cartledge Organization: fac51 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Info needed on Lucas single-point efi X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199707090715.IAA25863@sykes.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Rich Mauruschat wrote: > At 15:16 08/07/97 +0100, you wrote: > >I am looking for any info on the web or books on LUCAS Single-point > fuel > >injection. > > > >I can find mech abou the BOSCH L-jet on my '86 BMW, but nothing for > my > >friends '91 River 820SLi 16v. > > > >His car is doing 11mpg, so I want to help him sort this out ASAP. > > > >Thanks for any info, Richard > > > > > > Is your 11mpg accompanied by obviously rich running? May be worth > checking > the coolant sensor operation, a common problem with earlier Lucas > systems; > the sensor fails showing a falsely low temperature measurement and > hence > over rich fuelling. > Also has power been disconnected from the ECU? The SPi system has an > 'adaptive' fueling control which adjusts gradually for changes in > operating > conditions and engine condition etc. When power is disconnected the > ECU > suffers severe amnesia and forgets all it has learnt in one go and > takes > time to readjust. This is usually apparent from idle exhaust gas CO > readings, which default to approx. 6% until reset electronically via > the > diagnostic connector (no mechanical adjustment available on SPi). > As an aside, is the 820SLi actually single point injection? 'i' suffix > > models are usually multi-point and 'e' suffix single point but this > may not > be universal. ----------------Thanks for the info, the mixture seems to have no manual adjustment so I think maybe the temp sensor is faulty, I got about 200ohms when hot from the sensor. When the air inlet trunking is removed from the injector bowl, the the throttle butterfly is awash with fuel even at idle. The car seems to run OK though. The battery has probably been flat as the car has just been purchased from the back of a used car showroom and had probably stood a while. I don't have a gas analyser, so it would probably be best to have the mixture set electronically by a professional garage - I'll change the sensor anyway. Regards and thanks, Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 12:56:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA06120; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:43:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA06115; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:43:49 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA12472; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:42:57 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:42:57 -0500 Message-Id: <9707091242.AA12472@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >James Boughton wrote: >> >> I don't get the attachment when I receive my posts! I am lost! If you have any ideas on how to remedy this please help me. I use Microsoft Exchange for my mail reader. I have had some problems with Internet Explorer, but none with Exchange. I don't even know where to look for this problem. >> > >A couple things. You don't see the attachments, because as far as >Exchange is concerned, it is formatting data. The same formatting data >that it sends out so that other people running Billybob software, can >see all your colored text and fonts and other stuff like that. The other >thing is you don't have wrap turned on, so that your lines just go out >forever. Again, you don't see that because Exchange wraps it for you >when you receive the message. when we all go with MS software, this will no longer be a problem ... 8^) Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 13:24:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA06274; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:13:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06269; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:13:25 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr9-dialup34.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01IL104WJFD296YPA0@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:11:39 EDT Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 09:12:03 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970709091203.008ff5f0@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Well I see Fred also receives "the attachment" :-) I see it says something about eudora. I don't use eudora so I am wondering if this is on your machine? This "Fred" also is now using Eudora... so I can take my email to and from work on diskettes. Try that with Exchange/Outlook. Anyways, in order to turn off the attachment crap, from the inbox, go into your personal address book, and create an entry called "DIYEFI". Put in diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu as the address. Turn off UUCP, turn off RTF, and set it for MIME. When you go to post a new message, as the TO: address put "DIYEFI" and it will work fine. When responding to an existing post, Outlook and/or Exchange will automatically grab the settings for the DIYEFI entry since they have the same address. I posted this to the entire list so everyone using OUTLOOK and EXCHANGE could clip and paste this and hopefully make the internet more attachment friendly :) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 13:44:56 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA06417; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:36:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06412; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:36:18 -0400 Received: from LMTAS_Net.lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA26371; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:36:39 -0500 Message-ID: <33C3940E.E5A@lmtas.lmco.com> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 08:37:18 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Organization: Lockheed Martin Tactical Aerospace Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injected CNG References: <199707090234.CAA05060@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > From: James Thorne > Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 08:23:47 -0500 > Subject: Injected CNG > > How short our collective memories. Wasn't it , umm, last week that we > had a post from a fellow in Houston who had done exactly that? > > He used CNG, regulated it down to about 100psi rail pressure, and two > sets of Ford MS injectors per cyl, claimed 625 hp from a 302 Mustang, > which he still has, and invited people to come and inspect. > > That was this list wasn't it? Or was it the Ford list....? > > possibly befuddled, > > Brian > ______________________________________________________ > > That was me. You are correct the discussion was on this list. I thought it odd that no one else > noticed that we had covered this just last week. > > James Thorne > Where do you get the CNG? At the Texas state fair a few years ago Lone Star Gas displayed a home pump. You hooked up to your gas line at home and hooked it to your car when you come home at night. I've been curious about Propane and CNG for years because of the reported 110 octane. 13:1 compression, here I come! Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 13:45:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA06431; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:38:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailer.fsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06426; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:38:32 -0400 Received: from garnet.acns.fsu.edu (gmhub.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.10]) by mailer.fsu.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA19878 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:38:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (garnet2.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.3]) by garnet.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA144221 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:38:30 -0400 Received: from default (xyp011.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.2.31]) by garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA114705 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:38:29 -0400 Message-ID: <33C39514.87D831B9@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 09:41:41 -0400 From: Thomas Wright X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: (pas d'objet) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <33C33A79.6BDF@hol.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi collet wrote: > Dear, > I am very suprised and enjoy, to see diy_efi, because it doesn't exist > in France. > So my question is about the L-Jectronic Bosch system. > I would like to know if it's possible to get an electronique schema, > because we can see > on the board two specifics components: the firt one is for transform > the primary signal > come from the ignition and the second I don't know it's like an hybrid > component so by > what can I change those components? > Thank you for your help! Here is a site on the L-jet. It is interesting but not real specific. http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124775/Injection.html No schematic, though. Tom Wright From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 14:06:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA06528; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:56:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06523; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 09:56:35 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA17610; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:55:43 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:55:43 -0500 Message-Id: <9707091355.AA17610@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >>Well I see Fred also receives "the attachment" :-) I see it says >something about eudora. I don't use eudora so I am wondering if this is on >your machine? > >This "Fred" also is now using Eudora... so I can take my email to and from >work on diskettes. Try that with Exchange/Outlook. I can also copy my mailboxes to a text file and then edit them ... that's one way I collect data for such things as the eec-iv list Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 14:40:23 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA06673; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:37:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from marine.sonic.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA06666; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:37:31 -0400 From: sdelanty@sonic.net Received: from sub.sonic.net (sub.sonic.net [208.201.224.8]) by marine.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23529 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:38:38 -0700 Received: from d133.pm4.sonic.net (d133.pm4.sonic.net [208.201.229.133]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA19757 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:37:27 -0700 X-envelope-info: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:37:27 -0700 Message-Id: <199707091437.HAA19757@sub.sonic.net> X-Sender: sdelanty@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi Subject: Re: analog EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >>I want to put a MSD ignition module in but I think that this will cause the efi >>ecm to freak out? >> >>Am I right in thinking this? >It may not. I'm not sure which of the MSD units do the "multiple spark >discharge" thing to the coil. I don't think they all do. If it is a >multiple discharge type then it probably will screw up the trigger >signal to the efi unit. It may depend on the time constant of the input >filter in the unit. >Is it not possible to trigger the EFI unit from the MSD ignition >trigger? I don't know if this is a Hall effect trigger or the variable >reluctance type, but it will give you one pulse per cylinder. It's a >pity that the MSD module doesn't put out a trigger-output pulse for the >synchronisation of external EFI units. (It might do that of course, >perhaps someone else might know) My MSD6A has a "tach output" terminal that gives one pulse per cyl firing. I think that would run the EFI just fine. Happy motoring, Steve Delanty 1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 14:40:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA06678; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:37:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from marine.sonic.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA06672; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:37:34 -0400 From: sdelanty@sonic.net Received: from sub.sonic.net (sub.sonic.net [208.201.224.8]) by marine.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA23551 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:38:40 -0700 Received: from d133.pm4.sonic.net (d133.pm4.sonic.net [208.201.229.133]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA19770 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:37:30 -0700 X-envelope-info: Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:37:30 -0700 Message-Id: <199707091437.HAA19770@sub.sonic.net> X-Sender: sdelanty@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Hydraulic to Hp Conversion (again) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Appologies > >Could someone please send me the formula for converting hydraulic flow at a >certain pressure that was just posted for the person creating a fluid drive >go-kart. I didn't realize I would need this so soon and tossed it. > >Or, if anyone offhand would know the Hp required to drive a belt driven SPICA >mechanical fuel injection pump at WOT for a 1800cc engine producing 132 Hp >with one injector per cylinder (popping pressure of approx 320 psi). Fuel >injection feed pump pressure around 60 psi. HP = pressure(PSI) X flow(GPM) / 1714 This assumes a 100% efficient pump. Don't forget to add Your pump and belt drive losses. Happy motoring, Steve Delanty 1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 14:42:39 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA06723; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:40:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dns.box.bit-net.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA06718; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:40:52 -0400 Received: from localhost by dns.box.bit-net.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/30Jul96-0143PM) id AA01159; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:40:51 -0400 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:40:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Jody Shapiro To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injected CNG In-Reply-To: <33C3940E.E5A@lmtas.lmco.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Joe Boucher wrote: > I've been curious about Propane and CNG for years because of the > reported 110 octane. > > 13:1 compression, here I come! You may be interested in a book by Jeff Hartman called, "High Performance Automotive Fuels and Fluids". He discusses CNG in there... -Jody -- 97 Blue Vortech Z28 http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 14:47:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA06764; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:45:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uclink4.berkeley.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA06759; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:45:18 -0400 Received: from uclink.berkeley.edu (uclink.berkeley.edu [128.32.155.3]) by uclink4.berkeley.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id HAA00245 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (james@localhost) by uclink.berkeley.edu (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05095 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:44:10 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:44:09 -0700 (PDT) From: James C Patterson To: diy_efi Subject: Re: (pas d'objet) In-Reply-To: <33C39514.87D831B9@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Looks like TUT has changed their web server. The new address for Tero Antero Katajainen L-Jetronic page is http://www.students.tut.fi/~k124775/Injection.html James Patterson james@uclink.berkeley.edu On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Thomas Wright wrote: > > Here is a site on the L-jet. It is interesting but not real specific. > http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124775/Injection.html > No schematic, though. > > Tom Wright > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 16:02:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA07158; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:50:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from synunix.netsynergy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA07153; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:50:45 -0400 From: mcosta@netsynergy.com Received: from smtplink2.netsynergy.com (smtplink2.netsynergy.com [205.246.18.27]) by synunix.netsynergy.com (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id PAA09107 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:44:26 GMT Received: from cc:Mail by smtplink2.netsynergy.com id AA868473938; Wed, 09 Jul 97 11:42:04 EST Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 11:42:04 EST Encoding: 13 Text Message-Id: <9706098684.AA868473938@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> To: diy_efi Subject: HC11 EFI Code Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Does anyone have some working HC11 EFI code. I've looked around for some and have only managed to find garbled bits of code, that are readable but the instructions are all over the place along with the comments, making hard to put back together and make sense out of. If you have anything you are willing to share, please email me at: mcosta@netsynergy.com I am trying to develop a basic system for a couple of projects, and could really use a good starting point. I am very familar with the hc11 instruction set, but no so familiar with all the nuances of efi. Any help would be appreciated. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 17:20:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA07514; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:12:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from endeavor.flash.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA07509; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:12:22 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (tc4-184.flash.net [209.30.12.184]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA26415 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:07:12 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33C3E2B2.5726@flash.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 12:12:50 -0700 From: Mark Fabiny Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-FlashNet (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injected CNG References: <199707090234.CAA05060@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> <33C3940E.E5A@lmtas.lmco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Where do you get the CNG? At the Texas state fair a few years ago Lone > Star Gas displayed a home pump. You hooked up to your gas line at home > and hooked it to your car when you come home at night. A dozen or so gas stations in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area were offering CNG. These were fast-fill stations that took about the same amount of time to fill your tank compared to gasoline. The home compressors are definitely slow-fill (over night). Several gas stations nationwide have closed their CNG pumps because of lack of demand. The CNG market has been nearly killed because the government pulled back mandates requiring fleets to convert to alternate fuels (or they accepted reformulated gasoline as an alternate fuel). Also, OBDII has made it nearly impossible for aftermarket companies to develop conversion kits without help from the OEM's. Ford, GM, and Chrylser are still producing some CNG vehicles (last I heard), but the viability of CNG as an automotive fuel is struggling. Mark Fabiny Fort Worth, TX ex-CNG Double E From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 17:45:17 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA07815; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:39:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ormail.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA07810; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:39:27 -0400 Received: from relay.jf.intel.com (relay.jf.intel.com [134.134.131.6]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id KAA28599 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by relay.jf.intel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id KAA01642 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:39:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.jf.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #8) Wed, 09 Jul 97 10:39:21 PDT Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 07:56:00 PDT From: Todd King Message-ID: To: diy_efi Subject: conversion question + Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi A couple of questions; a) what is the conversion for gal/hr to pounds/hr for gasoline? b) Also, with the turbo cars we see a dramatic rise in EGT during a 1/4 mile pass, with EGT typically rising to 1550-1700F by the end. Can anyone comment on the big picture here, energy, phyics or otherwisewise, as to what is going on with turbo engines and EGT at wot? I realize that the exh manifold up to the turbine is at much higher pressure than for n.a., the turbine is extracting energy from the exh flow, etc. but is this EGT rise "necessary" for the turbo to keep up at wot/high compressor pressure ratios/high flows, ie is the high EGT sort of indicative of the potential energy "well" existing in the manifold, necessary for the turbo to draw from to "keep up" with it's chores on the comprssor side? Wow, I'm clear as mud here, right? :-) Todd tking@scic.intel.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 17:45:21 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA07873; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:43:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ariel.gi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA07864; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:43:23 -0400 Received: from gismtpgate.gi.com (po1.gi.com) by GI.COM (PMDF V5.1-8 #7516) with SMTP id <01IL13BP7RO8A73E8W@GI.COM> for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 10:43:18 PDT Received: by gismtpgate.gi.com with Microsoft Mail id <33C3CDA3@gismtpgate.gi.com>; Wed, 09 Jul 1997 10:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Subject: Re: analog EFI (MSD6A schematic) To: "'crsm@oroboros.demon.co.uk'" , "diy_efi (postings)" , "'questeds@lincoln.ac.nz'" Cc: "'cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu'" Message-id: <33C3CDA3@gismtpgate.gi.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Encoding: 15 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >It's a >pity that the MSD module doesn't put out a trigger-output pulse for the >synchronisation of external EFI units. (It might do that of course, >perhaps someone else might know) You can download the file msd6a_02.pdf which has a schematic of the MSD6A and discusses the various interfaces. Use the Adobe Acrobat Reader (free from www.adobe.com to read/print it). The site address is: ftp://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/incoming/ Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 18:37:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA08080; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:32:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from sgi.sgi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA08075; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:32:30 -0400 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by sgi.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/970507) via ESMTP id LAA05791 for <@external-mail-relay.sgi.com:diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 11:31:58 -0700 env-from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> id OAA06482; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:31:56 -0400 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id OAA20874 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:30:37 -0400 From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9707091430.ZM20872@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:30:37 -0400 In-Reply-To: Mark Fabiny "Re: Injected CNG" (Jul 9, 12:12pm) References: <199707090234.CAA05060@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> <33C3940E.E5A@lmtas.lmco.com> <33C3E2B2.5726@flash.net> X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injected CNG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Jul 9, 12:12pm, Mark Fabiny wrote: > Several gas stations nationwide have closed their CNG pumps because of > lack of demand. The CNG market has been nearly killed because the > government pulled back mandates requiring fleets to convert to alternate > fuels (or they accepted reformulated gasoline as an alternate fuel). > Also, OBDII has made it nearly impossible for aftermarket companies to > develop conversion kits without help from the OEM's. Ford, GM, and > Chrylser are still producing some CNG vehicles (last I heard), but the > viability of CNG as an automotive fuel is struggling. Around here in Dearborn, MI I see lots of FFV and CNG vehicles. They're definitely making and experimenting with them (Ford, anyhow) --andrew From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 20:28:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA08305; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:24:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA08300; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:24:20 -0400 Received: from Default (max3-ot-ca-13.earthlink.net [206.149.196.163]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA16633 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:24:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707092024.NAA16633@italy.it.earthlink.net> X-Sender: sbrooks@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Sam Brooks Subject: INFORMATION FOR MICROSOFT EXCHANGE USERS Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi James Boughton said; >I don't get the attachment when I receive my posts! I am lost! >If you have any ideas on how to remedy this please help me. >I use Microsoft Exchange for my mail reader. I have had some problems >with Internet Explorer, but none with Exchange. >I don't even know where to look for this problem. Hi, The following information may prove to be of value to you. Sam Brooks KitCar Listowner sbrooks@earthlink.net INFORMATION FOR MICROSOFT EXCHANGE USERS: ======================================== If you use Microsoft Exchange to read and send mail, please take the time to read this text carefully. If you do not follow the instructions, you will have difficulty posting to some forums on the Internet. THE EXCHANGE PROBLEM: ===================== When Microsoft Exchange is used to send mail to Internet addresses, it sometimes includes extra material at the end of your message. Other Exchange users will not see this material - it will be decoded and used to tell their copy of Exchange which fonts and colours you used -but people using other mail programs will just see lots of garbage tacked on the end of your message, or they will be told that there is a file attached to the message. The majority of people on the Internet do not use Exchange, and these attachments aren't any use to them. As far as I have been able to tell through experimentation, it is not possible to change a single configuration option to prevent unwanted attachments with Exchange. You must change the appropriate option for each Internet address that you send mail. SENDING ATTACHMENTS WITH YOUR MAIL: ================================== It is not possible to turn attachments on and off for a particular message. Whether or not attachments are added to your message seems to depend on whether you are using sending to an entry in the address book, or to an address that you just typed in. When an address is not in the address book, you can use colour, fonts and different styles in a message, but MS Exchange will usually discard it all before sending the message, without telling you that it is doing so. Sometimes, however, attachments will be added; according to the help file, this happens when you use a 'one shot' address - one that's just typed in to the To: box. If an address is in the book, you can tell Exchange whether or not you want the information about colour, fonts and so on included when you send mail to that address. The only reliable way to control whether or not attachments are sent is to send mail using the address book entry every time, and to configure the entry so that attachments will not be sent. To configure this, pull down the Tools menu in Exchange and select Address Book. Find the entry that you want to change and double click on it. Now, if it's not on top automatically, click on the tab marked "SMTP - Internet". You will see two boxes, labelled "Display Name" and "E-mail address." Check that these are correct, and then look at the check box below, which is labelled "Always send messages in Microsoft Exchange rich text format." Unless you know that the people you are writing to also use MS Exchange, you should make sure that there is NO TICK IN THIS BOX. When this box is ticked, Exchange adds attachments to your message, giving details about fonts and colours in a non-standard Microsoft format. If in doubt about the mail program that someone else is using, or if you are posting to a public forum such as a mailing list or a newsgroup, you should ensure that this option is turned off. Sending unnecessary attachments is anti-social and wasteful. How wasteful? A message 38 letter long, with one word in colour and one in a different font, acquires an attachment of 1514 letters to describe it to Exchange users! WINMAIL.DAT and application/ms-tnef =================================== These are the two things that appear in mail that you send to other people from Exchange; WINMAIL.DAT is a UUencoded file, and application/ms-tnef is a MIME type. Both have the same effect on people not using Exchange - they see garbage at the end of your messages, and often have to pay to download it. Options for attachments are set in Exchange via the Tools menu; select Services, then choose Internet Mail and select Properties. The button near the bottom of the Window labelled Message Format allows you to choose whether MIME format messages are sent from MS Exchange. In general, it is probably better to use MIME than not; if you don't select MIME, Exchange will use UUencoding, which is an older and less sophisticated way of handling attachments. Exchange and the uk-motss mailing lists ======================================= Both the uk-motss and uk-motss-women lists are currently set up to reject any messages that contain file attachments, including information from Microsoft Exchange, whether in MIME or UUencoded formats. If your post is returned to you by the list system, with an error that includes either: 'UUencoded file attachments are not allowed on this list' or'The MIME content type application/ms-tnef is not allowed on this list' then Microsoft exchange is adding extra information to the bottom of your messages, and you should follow the instructions above to prevent this happening in future. The best solution is to create an entry in your address book for each list that you are a member of, and set it up as described above. Make sure that you always use the address book entry when you send mail to the list. Nigel Whitfield, List Maintainer. ================ ADDENDUM FROM KITCAR LIST: ========================== The KitCar List is also set up to reject any messages/posts that contain file attachments of the type mentioned in this file. Your posts never make it to the KitCar List for general distribution, but are "bounced" over to me for disposition. HTH Sam Brooks KitCar List Admin kitcar-owner@bolis.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 20:28:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA08290; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:20:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA08285; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:20:09 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max2-cy-ca-02.earthlink.net [204.119.165.102]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA14941 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 13:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33C3F296.6AD6@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 13:20:39 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: conversion question + References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Todd King wrote: > > A couple of questions; a) what is the conversion for gal/hr to > pounds/hr for gasoline? Whenever you want to convert from the volume of a substance to the mass of that substance (or vice versa), you must know the density (or specific gravity). In the case of gasoline, according to one of my references, the density of gasoline can vary from 0.66 to 0.69 gm/cm^3 (at STP). Split the difference, and call it 0.675gm/cm^3. I've worked out a conversion that will take one from ml/min to lb/hr, which is handy when comparing Bosch to US injectors. Dividing ml/min by 11.2 will give you lb/hr. Conversely, multiplying lb/hr by 11.2 will give you ml/min. In your case, you will need to arrive at the density of gasoline in US units. I figure it to be 0.675gm/cm^3 x 4546cm^3/gal x 1 lb/453.6gm = 6.765 lb/gal of gasoline, on average. I'm sure someone else here will have a chart listing the density of gasoline in US units. I don't. But my calcs should be close. The rest is easy. Divide lb/hr by 6.765 to get gal/hr, multiply gal/hr by 6.765 to get lb/hr. > b) Also, with the turbo cars we see a dramatic > rise in EGT during a 1/4 mile pass, with EGT typically rising to > 1550-1700F by the end. Can anyone comment on the big picture here, > energy, phyics or otherwisewise, as to what is going on with turbo > engines and EGT at wot? I realize that the exh manifold up to the > turbine is at much higher pressure than for n.a., the turbine is > extracting energy from the exh flow, etc. but is this EGT rise > "necessary" for the turbo to keep up at wot/high compressor pressure > ratios/high flows, ie is the high EGT sort of indicative of the > potential energy "well" existing in the manifold, necessary for the > turbo to draw from to "keep up" with it's chores on the comprssor > side? Wow, I'm clear as mud here, right? :-) First off, the spike in EGT you're seeing isn't because of what you've theorized. It's because at elevated boost conditions, your fuel system is going lean on you. Overly high O2 concentrations can superheat your EGT, causing melted pistons and other wonderful byproducts. I would recommend that you go with larger injectors, additional injectors, or a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to counteract the lean condition your engine is experiencing. Secondly, the exhaust side of the turbo should not be seeing significantly high pressures. High backpressures on the exhaust side of a turbo *kill* performance. If you're running a low restriction, or open, exhaust, and a turbo that's been properly sized for your application, high back pressures are most likely not your problem. -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 20:32:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA08346; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:30:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA08334; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:30:18 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA07118 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:30:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:30:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707092030.PAA07118@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ven-ca1-08.ix.netcom.com(205.186.74.40) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma006755; Wed Jul 9 15:27:24 1997 X-Sender: fcmtb@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: Re: conversion question + Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Todd, a: I think I saw that gas weighs 6.1-6.5#/gal depending on the type. b: Most turbos won't *need* any 1700f but they will spool up faster with some excess heat(ie from retarded timing or lean mixture). I guess if your turbine side was somewhat oversized it might just need all the energy(in whatever form) it could get. Fred At 07:56 AM 7/9/97 PDT, you wrote: > A couple of questions; a) what is the conversion for gal/hr to > pounds/hr for gasoline? b) Also, with the turbo cars we see a dramatic > rise in EGT during a 1/4 mile pass, with EGT typically rising to > 1550-1700F by the end. Can anyone comment on the big picture here, > energy, phyics or otherwisewise, as to what is going on with turbo > engines and EGT at wot? I realize that the exh manifold up to the > turbine is at much higher pressure than for n.a., the turbine is > extracting energy from the exh flow, etc. but is this EGT rise > "necessary" for the turbo to keep up at wot/high compressor pressure > ratios/high flows, ie is the high EGT sort of indicative of the > potential energy "well" existing in the manifold, necessary for the > turbo to draw from to "keep up" with it's chores on the comprssor > side? Wow, I'm clear as mud here, right? :-) > > Todd tking@scic.intel.com > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 20:33:57 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA08354; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:31:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from endeavor.flash.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA08349; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:31:44 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (pm13-158.flash.net [209.30.9.158]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA28933 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 15:26:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33C41170.2E8B@flash.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 15:32:16 -0700 From: Mark Fabiny Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-FlashNet (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Injected CNG References: <199707090234.CAA05060@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> <33C3940E.E5A@lmtas.lmco.com> <33C3E2B2.5726@flash.net> <9707091430.ZM20872@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Andrew F. Gunnesch wrote: > Around here in Dearborn, MI I see lots of FFV and CNG vehicles. They're > definitely making and experimenting with them (Ford, anyhow) Andrew, I didn't mean to imply that CNG's use in automobiles was dead. All I'm trying to say is that the natural gas vehicle industry was MUCH more optimistic about its future 2 years ago than it is today. CNG may indeed gain acceptance as an alternative to gasoline, it will just take longer than most had hoped. FYI: Last I heard, Ford was offering the FFV Tauras, dedicated CNG Crown Victoria, bi-fuel Econoline van, and bi-fuel F150 truck, and GM had re-introduced its CNG Sierra pickup. Mark From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 20:46:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA08402; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:43:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pioneers.mts.mb.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA08397; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:42:57 -0400 Received: from mustang.mts.mb.ca by pioneers.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Jun96-0309PM) id AA20272; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:56:49 -0500 Received: from smtpos2.mts.mb.ca by mustang.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/18Jul96-1101AM) id AA25744; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:54:19 -0500 Received: by smtpos2.mts.mb.ca (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA3250; Wed, 09 Jul 97 12:54:43 -0500 Message-Id: <9707091754.AA3250@smtpos2.mts.mb.ca> Received: from MTS with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id C1457464F3D06D71862564CF0061FFF8; Wed, 9 Jul 97 12:54:42 To: diy_efi From: Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS Date: 9 Jul 97 12:52:33 Subject: RE: O2 sensor output vs temp vs impedance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I second this request. This is exactly what I am looking for. Neil >Also Frank, any way you could put a copy of that graph on the DIY web site >so all of us could get a look at it. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 20:46:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA08413; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:44:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pioneers.mts.mb.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA08407; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 16:44:06 -0400 Received: from mustang.mts.mb.ca by pioneers.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/12Jun96-0309PM) id AA25732; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:50:37 -0500 Received: from smtpos2.mts.mb.ca by mustang.mts.mb.ca; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/18Jul96-1101AM) id AA24017; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:48:06 -0500 Received: by smtpos2.mts.mb.ca (IBM OS/2 SENDMAIL VERSION 1.3.2)/1.0) id AA3246; Wed, 09 Jul 97 12:48:31 -0500 Message-Id: <9707091748.AA3246@smtpos2.mts.mb.ca> Received: from MTS with "Lotus Notes Mail Gateway for SMTP" id E19CB65856A238BB862564CF0061384D; Wed, 9 Jul 97 12:48:30 To: diy_efi Cc: Frank F Parker From: Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS Date: 9 Jul 97 12:49:10 Subject: RE: O2 sensor output vs temp vs impedance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Frank > I have a enginering graph from Bosch for their LSM-11 sensor Is this sensor extremely expensive? and interchangeable with a standard sensor? >PS: Very good book on automotive sensors (including O2) is "Automotive >Electronics Handbook" by Jurgen, ISBN:0-07-033189-8 I think I've seen this book on the SAE Web site. Does it have enough detailed info about O2 sensors to warrant my buying it or are they mentioned only in a paragraph or so? Neil From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 9 21:07:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA08495; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:04:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail2.isdnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA08490; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 17:03:55 -0400 Received: from vectra (ppp38.mel.hol.fr [194.149.180.177]) by mail2.isdnet.net (8.8.5/Havas On Line) with SMTP id XAA25325 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:03:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <33C3FD9D.6713@hol.fr> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 23:07:41 +0200 From: collet X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E [fr]-HAVAS1 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Bosch L-Jectronic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On my board I have a 25 pins out connector (not oxy. sensor) and one of the specific component of 14 pins is built by Siemens for Bosch and it has two number:0124;6352 and it's for transform the signal for ignition. I see the www about the L jectronic, not bad but I dont get what I research. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 00:43:30 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA08931; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:35:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from u1.farm.idt.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA08926; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:35:31 -0400 Received: from hpvl4 (ppp-13.ts-3.hp.idt.net [169.132.73.61]) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA13706 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33C42FAB.B01@idt.net> Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 20:41:15 -0400 From: Bernard Ward X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: (pas d'objet) References: <33C33A79.6BDF@hol.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi collet wrote: > > Dear, > I am very suprised and enjoy, to see diy_efi, because it doesn't exist in France. > So my question is about the L-Jectronic Bosch system. > I would like to know if it's possible to get an electronique schema, because we can see > on the board two specifics components: the firt one is for transform the primary signal > come from the ignition and the second I don't know it's like an hybrid component so by > what can I change those components? > Thank you for your help! Zoot Alor! Barney From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 00:52:23 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA09055; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 00:48:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from corinna.its.utas.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA09050; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 20:48:53 -0400 Received: from 144.6.1.12.utas.edu.au (nhm-dialin-2.its.utas.edu.au [144.6.5.2]) by corinna.its.utas.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.4-utas-ff) with ESMTP id KAA06095 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:48:50 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33C43177.DA978B0C@iname.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:48:56 +1000 From: Steven Arnold X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Coolant temp sensor circuitry, injector lugs X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi What method do most efi computers use for measuring the resistance of the coolant temp sensor - a wheatstone bridge, a constand current source, or perhaps just a potential divider type setup? (This question may have been more appropriate for the efi332 list) Also, the injector connectors used on late model Mazda engines, some Mitsubishi's etc - what are they, where can the lugs that fit in them be found? thanks From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 01:24:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA09110; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:21:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ormail.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA09105; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:21:20 -0400 Received: from relay.jf.intel.com (relay.jf.intel.com [134.134.131.6]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id SAA20025 for ; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by relay.jf.intel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id SAA18432 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 18:21:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.jf.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #8) Wed, 09 Jul 97 18:21:17 PDT Date: Wed, 09 Jul 97 18:18:00 PDT From: Todd King Message-ID: To: diy_efi Subject: Re: EGT rising at wot with boost Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi <<< First off, the spike in EGT you're seeing isn't because of what you've theorized. It's because at elevated boost conditions, your fuel system is going lean on you. Overly high O2 concentrations can superheat your EGT, causing melted pistons and other wonderful byproducts. I would recommend that you go with larger injectors, additional injectors, or a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to counteract the lean condition your engine is experiencing. >>> Well, no, there's something else going on here that I'm asking about. I agree that leanness will cause problems but we (being a relatively large sample size) see the rise whether rich, right on, double extra injectors, six 55#/hr inj on a 231" engine, whatever. I see it on my car when it's pig rich. I guess a good illustration of the effect is the dramatic photos one sees of turbo engines at full boogie on a dyno with exh parts glowing bright red all the way up to the turbine; much cooler pipes though (ie no glow) after the turbine, which has extracted its energy. <<< Secondly, the exhaust side of the turbo should not be seeing significantly high pressures. High backpressures on the exhaust side >>> I must not have been clear enough; the higher pressure I was referring to is in the exh manifold before the turbine, not after, and relative to n.a. exh press which is close to atmosphereic (for open exh). Todd tking@scic.intel.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 01:29:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA09135; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:28:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA09130; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:28:12 -0400 Received: by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.0-mailhub) id VAA25745; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fparker@galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu(141.211.63.92) by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu via smap (2.0-umich) id xma025742; Wed, 9 Jul 97 21:28:09 -0400 Received: from localhost by galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.5-client) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:28:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank F Parker X-Sender: fparker@galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu To: diy_efi Subject: Re: conversion question + In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > rise in EGT during a 1/4 mile pass, with EGT typically rising to > 1550-1700F by the end. Can anyone comment on the big picture here, > energy, phyics or otherwisewise, as to what is going on with turbo > engines and EGT at wot? I realize that the exh manifold up to the > turbine is at much higher pressure than for n.a., the turbine is > extracting energy from the exh flow, etc. but is this EGT rise > "necessary" for the turbo to keep up at wot/high compressor pressure > ratios/high flows, ie is the high EGT sort of indicative of the > potential energy "well" existing in the manifold, necessary for the > turbo to draw from to "keep up" with it's chores on the comprssor > side? Wow, I'm clear as mud here, right? :-) > > Todd tking@scic.intel.com > Todd, Corky Bell's new book published by Robert Bently called "Maximum Boost" is all about turbos and their theory, installation and tuning. It is excellent. From there you will learn that normal turbine back pressure is 2-3 times manifold pressure but the lower the better to a certain point as pressure is necessary to extract the energy as you suggested. I found in my own turbo car that had a pretty restrictive cat and exhaust, that I had very high temps (1650 deg F) until I lowered the pressure after the turbo. I measured it by silver soldering a thin (.035) wall 1/8 in tube into a hose clamp, drilling the outlet pipe and clamping tube to pipe and running hose up to a pressure gauge. I had 2 times turbine outlet ( not inlet) pressure but after bigger cat and pipes lowered the pressure to about a psi and lowered egt by 200 deg. Frank Parker fparker@umich.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 01:44:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA09177; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:43:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA09172; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:43:29 -0400 Received: by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.0-mailhub) id VAA26263; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fparker@galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu(141.211.63.92) by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu via smap (2.0-umich) id xma026261; Wed, 9 Jul 97 21:43:29 -0400 Received: from localhost by galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.5-client) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:43:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank F Parker X-Sender: fparker@galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu To: diy_efi Subject: RE: O2 sensor output vs temp vs impedance In-Reply-To: <9707091754.AA3250@smtpos2.mts.mb.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > I second this request. This is exactly what I am looking for. > > Neil > > >Also Frank, any way you could put a copy of that graph on the DIY web site > >so all of us could get a look at it. > Yes, I will do this as soon as I can buy a good 24 bit or better color scanner that will work with my Gateway 166 MMX portable. Not much available for parallal port. May get PCMCIA scuzzi (sp) interface? SUGGESTIONS gratefully accepted. Frank Parker fparker@umich.edu > > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 01:45:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA09160; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:38:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA09155; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:38:55 -0400 Received: by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.0-mailhub) id VAA26103; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:38:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fparker@galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu(141.211.63.92) by berzerk.rs.itd.umich.edu via smap (2.0-umich) id xma026101; Wed, 9 Jul 97 21:38:53 -0400 Received: from localhost by galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/3.5-client) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 21:38:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Frank F Parker X-Sender: fparker@galaxian.rs.itd.umich.edu To: Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS cc: diy_efi Subject: RE: O2 sensor output vs temp vs impedance In-Reply-To: <9707091751.AA3248@smtpos2.mts.mb.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On 9 Jul 1997, Neil Poersch/MTSCom/MTS wrote: > > > I have a enginering graph from Bosch for their LSM-11 sensor > > Is this sensor extremely expensive? and interchangeable with a standard sensor? > It costs about $180 and is interchangeable- a big advantage since std prod ecm will work. > >PS: Very good book on automotive sensors (including O2) is "Automotive > >Electronics Handbook" by Jurgen, ISBN:0-07-033189-8 > > I think I've seen this book on the SAE Web site. Does it have enough detailed > info about > O2 sensors to warrant my buying it or are they mentioned only in a paragraph or > so? > This book has a complete large chapter on O2 sensors written by Bosch engineers. It is very good. Book is expensive-$89 list but I have seen it free as part of Tab Book Club. Frank fparker@umich.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 02:36:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA09358; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 02:30:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.airmail.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA09353; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 22:30:22 -0400 Received: from main from [206.66.4.99] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for id ; Wed, 9 Jul 97 21:30:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970710023146.006ca950@mail.airmail.net> X-Sender: ricrain@mail.airmail.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 09 Jul 1997 21:31:46 -0500 To: diy_efi From: Ric Rainbolt Subject: RE: O2 sensor output vs temp vs impedance Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Yes, I will do this as soon as I can buy a good 24 bit or better color >scanner that will work with my Gateway 166 MMX portable. Not much >available for parallal port. May get PCMCIA scuzzi (sp) interface? >SUGGESTIONS gratefully accepted. > >Frank Parker >fparker@umich.edu If you will ship a copy, I'll scan it and post it. I'll even pay for the FEDEX charges if you'll do so. Ric Rainbolt ricrain@airmail.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 03:24:17 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA09641; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 03:17:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA09636; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:17:43 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0ED32G3KM000BU@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:16 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:18:40 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:17:53 +1200 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:17:45 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: analog EFI (MSD6A schematic) To: diy_efi Message-id: <0ED32G3KN000BU@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Bryan Exclent stuff !!! Thanks for the help Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 08:36:35 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA10287; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:22:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA10282; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:22:15 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id BAA06116 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:22:02 -0700 Message-ID: <33C49C6A.128B17FA@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 01:25:14 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Coolant temp sensor circuitry, injector lugs References: <33C43177.DA978B0C@iname.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Steven Arnold wrote: > > What method do most efi computers use for measuring the resistance of > the coolant temp sensor - a wheatstone bridge, a constand current > source, or perhaps just a potential divider type setup? (This question > may have been more appropriate for the efi332 list) You might want to have a look at the IO board schematic on the ftp site. The efi332 project uses an MC145051 A/D converter after the various inputs are run through a choke and a resistor with a cap to ground (just a basic filter) and another resistor to VCC (voltage divider in simplest terms). A/D converter just takes the input voltage and converts it into a value that is sent as serial data to the QSM module in the CPU. -j- (trying to write some code for the QSM->A/D as we speak) From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 08:56:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA10325; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:52:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA10320; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 04:52:52 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1523268; 10 Jul 97 9:44 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id JAA18792 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:36:26 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:36:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199707100836.JAA18792@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: Coolant temp sensor circuitry, injector lugs Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 10:48 10/07/97 +1000, you wrote: >What method do most efi computers use for measuring the resistance of >the coolant temp sensor - a wheatstone bridge, a constand current >source, or perhaps just a potential divider type setup? (This question >may have been more appropriate for the efi332 list) > >Also, the injector connectors used on late model Mazda engines, some >Mitsubishi's etc - what are they, where can the lugs that fit in them be >found? > >thanks > > > Generally (in the stuff that we see in the UK at least) the coolant sensor is connected as the bottom half of a potential divider with a pull-up resistor to supply, generally 5V logic supply. The signal is then taken from the divider junction. A popular value of pull-up resistor is approx. 1K8 ohms where the sensor resistance at 20C is approx. 2K ohms, at 100C approx. 180 ohms. (this seems to be the case for Bosch systems at least; Ford have a tendency to use a higher resistance sensor). Occasionally a constant current source is used. An interesting deviation from this is found in some of the later GM Multec systems (Opel/Vauxhall) where the pull-up resistor is switched part way through the range to improve the resolution at the range extremes. Hope this helps Richard. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 09:37:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA10445; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:33:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA10440; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 05:32:59 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1101490; 10 Jul 97 9:25 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id JAA18114 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:25:28 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:25:28 +0100 Message-Id: <199707100825.JAA18114@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: injector flow rates Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Does anyone have details of flow rates (static and dynamic at specified pressure) for Bosch injectors? The part numbers I am particularly interested in are: 0 280 150 203 0 280 150 209 0 280 150 211 0 280 150 219 0 280 150 227 0 280 150 702 0 280 150 703 0 280 150 725 0 280 150 727 0 280 150 734 0 280 150 744 A longer list would be great! Cheers, Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 09:42:15 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA10475; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:40:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wt09.wt.tno.nl by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA10470; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 05:40:52 -0400 Received: from wt3069.wt.tno.nl (wt3069.wt.tno.nl [134.221.53.171]) by wt09.wt.tno.nl (NTMail 3.02.10) with ESMTP id ha075381 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:40:43 +0200 X-Sender: haas@mailhost.wt.tno.nl X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:40:43 +0200 To: diy_efi From: Haas@wt.tno.nl (Joeri de Haas) Subject: Re: conversion question + Message-Id: <09404349901775@wt.tno.nl> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Todd, Have you considered boost dependent ignition retard as one of the possible cause of EGT rise ? Also Turbocharged engines usually run lower compression ratios leading to a less efficient expansion which also gives higher EGT 's. Joeri de Haas > A couple of questions; a) what is the conversion for gal/hr to > pounds/hr for gasoline? b) Also, with the turbo cars we see a dramatic > rise in EGT during a 1/4 mile pass, with EGT typically rising to > 1550-1700F by the end. Can anyone comment on the big picture here, > energy, phyics or otherwisewise, as to what is going on with turbo > engines and EGT at wot? I realize that the exh manifold up to the > turbine is at much higher pressure than for n.a., the turbine is > extracting energy from the exh flow, etc. but is this EGT rise > "necessary" for the turbo to keep up at wot/high compressor pressure > ratios/high flows, ie is the high EGT sort of indicative of the > potential energy "well" existing in the manifold, necessary for the > turbo to draw from to "keep up" with it's chores on the comprssor > side? Wow, I'm clear as mud here, right? :-) > > Todd tking@scic.intel.com > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 13:25:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA10877; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:16:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA10872; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:16:26 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.56] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id na203411 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:19:59 -0400 Received: by port56.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8D11.C4507960@port56.tnt1.bignet.net>; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:15:10 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC8D11.C4507960@port56.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:15:06 -0400 Encoding: 23 TEXT, 45 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Fred wrote: >Anyways, in order to turn off the attachment crap, from the inbox, go into >your personal address book, and create an entry called "DIYEFI". Put in >diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu as the address. Turn off UUCP, turn off >RTF, and set it for MIME. >Frederic Breitwieser >Homebrew Automotive Mailing List >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html Where is UUCP and RTF? I checked the MIME check box, but I don't really know what this does (and if it works I probably don't care). I think I cured the attachment problem by changing the character set from some ISO set to the US ASCII. I am still hoping to find a way to avoid the hard returns at the end of every line though. Too much thought for me :-0 Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net --- begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@P-`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F`' ``0```"<```!213H@26YT M``@0`0```&4```!&4D5$5U)/5$4Z04Y95T%94RQ)3D]21$525$]455). M3T9&5$A%051404-(345.5$-205 L1E)/351(14E.0D]8+$=/24Y43UE/55)0 M15)33TY!3$%$1%)%4U-"3T]++$%.1$-2``````(!"1 !````: ,``&0#```. M!@``3%I&=96.#/[_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L," M@S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B:1W81.P+" +@" %L/$$@2!T;R&0"' A(0W082&0:&4@80) M`-!HRP> `C @!0!A<"#P`U+7(E,+@ ;@>"#P9R&P"X!?(: =%QW_'P\XQKR!G%C($(6 M$#B `_!?!Y $D#F_.L\<'D@#<&5V8A80!^!!+' #: ) (' Z+R]W1L N9UAE;V,X@#W!+@6@;2PO31M@!;!# M.(!Y+PA$;W<`@"\T-C!,-2\+@ VP>"Y&4&WV;#E/&?Y7(G 6$"$`!"#7,[(I M\S>Q/RQ 22- (G#\8VL;$2)B./)-="F1)('68BQQ36!D`B G!4 J4;,K8"L@ M:VY(D!T5=Q& WP5 (F!,04^@!Y$H*@(&D'4X Received: from random.tpgi.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA10970; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:08:24 -0400 Received: from justin (gou-ppp-070.tpgi.com.au [203.29.140.70]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA04959 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:07:44 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33C4EC85.2BCC@tpgi.com.au> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 00:07:01 +1000 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: Diacom Interface! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi all I know over the past we have all gotten in on the topic of PC - ALDL type interfaces and so on....I know i played around for hours and hours tyring to get it all to work.....HA! didnt have much luck with the tricky baud rates.... anyway has anyone got the diacom progies floating around in the collection of auto stuff??? if so may i have a copy PLEASE ....in return ill post a copy of "DIACOM" compatable interface plans. I know that its not a normal reguest for the group but i know that all will enjoy.....and most have travlled down this road. jalbury@tpgi.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 14:54:53 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA11086; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:49:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hot.co.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA11078; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:49:27 -0400 Received: from lizard (ppp5.hot.co.za [196.13.64.14]) by hot.co.za (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA03291 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:53:49 +0200 Message-Id: <199707101453.QAA03291@hot.co.za> X-Sender: redelec@hot.hot.co.za X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:47:56 +0100 To: diy_efi From: jon hanson Subject: Re: injector flow rates Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Does anyone have details of flow rates (static and dynamic at specified >pressure) for Bosch injectors? >The part numbers I am particularly interested in are: >0 280 150 203 >0 280 150 209 >0 280 150 211 >0 280 150 219 >0 280 150 227 >0 280 150 702 >0 280 150 703 >0 280 150 725 >0 280 150 727 >0 280 150 734 >0 280 150 744 >A longer list would be great! > >Cheers, >Richard > > I only have a reference for one of the above (every little bit helps) part no application flow rate (cc/min) @pressure (bar) 0280 150 203 BMW 195 2.7 the ref (Jeff Hartmanns book) doesn't specify if the flow rate is static or dynamic regards Jon Hanson From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 14:55:40 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA11101; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:53:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA11093; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:53:03 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max1-cy-ca-53.earthlink.net [204.119.165.78]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA12575 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33C4F768.B34@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 07:53:28 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: injector flow rates References: <199707100825.JAA18114@sykes.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Rich Mauruschat wrote: > > Does anyone have details of flow rates (static and dynamic at specified > pressure) for Bosch injectors? > The part numbers I am particularly interested in are: > 0 280 150 203 > 0 280 150 209 > 0 280 150 211 > 0 280 150 219 > 0 280 150 227 > 0 280 150 702 > 0 280 150 703 > 0 280 150 725 > 0 280 150 727 > 0 280 150 734 > 0 280 150 744 > A longer list would be great! Check out the list at http://www.co.jyu.fi/~rax/suutin.htm Some of the part #'s you were inquiring about are listed, plus several more. It's mostly in Finnish, but you can still get the flow data off the chart. -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 15:17:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA11171; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:13:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA11166; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:13:24 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr7-dialup51.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01IL2ILFEDQE96YRQ9@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:11:15 EDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:06:18 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: RE: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions In-reply-to: <01BC8D11.C4507960@port56.tnt1.bignet.net> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi, "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970710110618.00909580@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Where is UUCP and RTF? I checked the MIME check box, but I don't really know >what this does (and if it works I probably don't care). I think I cured the attachment RTF is rich text format, which is Window's way of making things pretty to look at. Unfortunately, until the world gets to Outlook, we gotta turn it off. Mime is a type of encoding, see the bottom of all your messages... that MIME encoding. UUCP is the default if you turn MIME off, UUCP goes on. Its one or the other. >problem by changing the character set from some ISO set to the US ASCII. I am >still hoping to find a way to avoid the hard returns at the end of every line >though. Not doable my friend... anything I want unformatted to archive for later use, I cut and paste into word, and do a "search and replace" removing all the carriage returns. A lot of work if you ask me :) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 15:17:39 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA11184; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:14:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA11179; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:14:39 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-05c11.direct.ca [204.174.249.43]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id IAA06746 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707101514.IAA06746@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Diacom Interface! Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Regarding interfaces This software works for 8192. GL:Peter /********************************************************** GCAR1.C ***********************************************************/ #include #include #include #include #include "comdefs.h" /* register definitions */ #include "alt_key.h" #include "ascii.h" #define BUF_SIZE 200 /* Size of Rx and Tx buffers */ #define FALSE 0 #define TRUE !FALSE #define FORMAT 0x03 /* 8N1 format in LCR */ #define BAUD 8192 void interrupt com_svc (__CPPARGS); /* RX data ISR */ void interrupt (*old_svc) (__CPPARGS); /* old int. vector */ void init_com (int port, char format, int baud); /* initialize COM port */ void restore (int port); /* restore COM vector */ void put_com (char c); /* transmit data */ int get_com (void); /* receive data */ void do_command(void); /* process Keys */ long atox(char *cmdline); int tohex(char letter); /* The following are treated as global variables and are */ /* declared outside the main program. */ FILE *stream; char text_buff[140]; int file_status = FALSE; int rx_buff[BUF_SIZE]; /* receive data buffer */ char tx_buff[BUF_SIZE]; /* transmit data buffer */ int rx_in_ptr, rx_out_ptr; /* write & read pointers*/ int tx_in_ptr, tx_out_ptr; /* write & read pointers*/ int retransmit_out_ptr, retransmit_in_ptr; int transmitting, tx_out_ptr_check; int carrier_sense; int run; /* program run/quit flag */ int com_base; /* COM port base address */ int displacement; /* flow control */ void main (void) { int c; int port; /* COM port number 1-4 */ file_status = FALSE; init_com( port=1, FORMAT, BAUD ); /* initialize COM port */ printf("\n\n GM Car Monitor:\n\n\ t Transmits x Exits l Loads Hex data\n"); printf("\nEnter filename to save data (or for no file)\n\ Filename: "); gets(text_buff); if( isgraph(*text_buff )) if ((stream = fopen(text_buff, "wt")) == NULL) { printf("Cannot open text file.\n"); } else file_status = TRUE; printf("Press l to load the Hex data Transmit string\nMonitor mode..."); run = TRUE; /* program run/quit flag */ while( run ) /* Run till we get bored */ { c = get_com (); /* check for character; */ if (c != -1) /* if one was received, */ { printf("%.2X ",(unsigned char)c ); /* print it */ if(file_status) fprintf(stream,"%.2X ",(unsigned char)c ); /* print it to file */ } if (kbhit ()) /* if a key has been hit */ { c = getch (); /* read char from kybd */ if (c == NUL) /* if it's a NUL, */ do_command(); /* 2nd byte as command */ } } if( file_status ) fclose(stream); /* close file */ restore(port); } void put_com(char c) /* Fill Tx Buffer */ { int tx_ptr; tx_ptr = (tx_in_ptr+1) % BUF_SIZE; /* point to next spot in */ if (tx_ptr != tx_out_ptr) /* buffer; if available */ { tx_buff[tx_ptr] = c; /* save received data */ tx_in_ptr = tx_ptr; /* and update rx input ptr */ } } int get_com(void) /* Receive character */ { if(rx_out_ptr == rx_in_ptr) return (-1); else { displacement--; rx_out_ptr = (rx_out_ptr+1) % BUF_SIZE; /* point to next spot in */ return (rx_buff[rx_out_ptr]); } } void do_command(void) { switch (getch()) /* select command */ { case ALTX: /* x exits program */ run = FALSE; break; case ALTT: /* t transmits data */ printf("-- " ); if(file_status) fprintf(stream,"-- " ); /* print it to file */ carrier_sense=1; delay(10); if(carrier_sense) { outp( (com_base+MCR), (inp( com_base+MCR ) & ~RTS) ); /* enable Tx */ tx_out_ptr = retransmit_out_ptr; /* retrieve transmit pointers */ tx_in_ptr = retransmit_in_ptr; /* for retransmitting */ transmitting=TRUE; tx_out_ptr_check=tx_out_ptr; if(inp(com_base+LSR) & THRE) if( tx_out_ptr != tx_in_ptr ) { tx_out_ptr = (tx_out_ptr+1) % BUF_SIZE; /* point to next spot */ outp( com_base+THR, tx_buff[tx_out_ptr] ); /* and Tx */ } } break; case ALTL: /* l loads hex string */ printf("\n\n Load Hex String"); printf("\nEnter each Hex byte followed by "); printf("\npress twice on last byte\n"); for(;;) { gets(text_buff); if( tohex(*text_buff) < 0 ) break; put_com((char)atox(text_buff)); } retransmit_out_ptr = tx_out_ptr; /* save transmit pointers */ retransmit_in_ptr = tx_in_ptr; /* for retransmitting */ printf("Press t to transmit string\n"); break; } } /********************************************************** INIT_COM - initialize COMx port and interrupt vector ***********************************************************/ void init_com (int port, char format, int baud) { char c; int com_int, irq_msk; unsigned dbaud; dbaud = (unsigned)(115200L/baud); /* rate divisor*/ switch (port) /* port-specific defns. */ { case 1: com_base = COM1; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_C; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ4M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; case 2: com_base = COM2; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_B; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ3M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; case 3: com_base = COM3; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_C; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ4M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; case 4: com_base = COM4; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_B; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ3M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; default: break; }; asm CLI; /* disable interrupts */ outp (com_base+LCR, DLAB); /* access divisor latch */ outp (com_base+DLL, (char)dbaud); /* set UART bit rate */ outp (com_base+DLM, (char)(dbaud >> 8)); outp (com_base+LCR, format); /* set word length, etc.*/ old_svc = getvect (com_int); /* save old COMx vector */ setvect (com_int, com_svc); /* vector -> com_svc () */ rx_in_ptr = rx_out_ptr = 0; /* init buffer pointers */ tx_in_ptr = tx_out_ptr = 0; /* init buffer pointers */ retransmit_out_ptr = retransmit_in_ptr = 0; transmitting = 0; carrier_sense = 0; displacement = 0; c = inp (PIC_IMR); outp (PIC_IMR, c & ~irq_msk); /* enable interrupt on */ outp (com_base+IER, ERBFI | ETBEI); /* Data Ready & THRE */ c = inp (com_base+RBR); /* clear RX data reg */ outp (com_base+MCR, OUT2|DTR|RTS); /* gate 8250 INT to 8259 */ asm STI; /* enable interrupts */ } /********************************************************** RESTORE - disable COMx interrupt and restore old vector You *must* call this function before you exit! ***********************************************************/ void restore (int port) { char c; int com_int, irq_msk; switch (port) /* port-specific defns. */ { case 1: com_base = COM1; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_C; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ4M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; case 2: com_base = COM2; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_B; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ3M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; case 3: com_base = COM3; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_C; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ4M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; case 4: com_base = COM4; /* port base address */ com_int = INT_B; /* hardware int number */ irq_msk = IRQ3M; /* PIC interrupt mask */ break; default: break; }; c = inp (PIC_IMR); outp (PIC_IMR, c | irq_msk); /* disable COMx int */ outp (com_base+IER, 0x00); outp (com_base+MCR, 0x00); /* all modem outputs off */ setvect (com_int, old_svc); /* restore COMx vector */ } /********************************************************** COM_SVC - receive and transmit data interrupt service routine Reads received character from 8250 and places it in the receive data buffer if there is room - if there isn't, the character is discarded. Note that wraparound of the buffer pointer is handled by incrementing modulo BUF_SIZE. ***********************************************************/ void interrupt com_svc (__CPPARGS) { char c; int rx_ptr, status; carrier_sense = 0; if( (status=inp(com_base+IIR)) & ID1 ) /* Receive Interrupt? */ { c = inp (com_base+RBR); /* read received char */ rx_ptr = (rx_in_ptr+1) % BUF_SIZE; /* point to next spot in */ if (rx_ptr != rx_out_ptr) /* buffer; if available */ { rx_buff[rx_ptr] = c; /* save received data */ rx_in_ptr = rx_ptr; /* and update rx input ptr */ displacement++; } if(transmitting) { tx_out_ptr_check = (tx_out_ptr_check+1) % BUF_SIZE; if(c != tx_buff[tx_out_ptr_check]) tx_out_ptr = tx_in_ptr; // Kill packet transmission } if( (inp(com_base+LSR) & (THRE)) == (THRE) ) // if so, disable Tx { outp( (com_base+MCR), (inp( com_base+MCR ) | RTS) ); transmitting = FALSE; } } if( status & ID0 ) /* Transmit Interrupt? */ { if( tx_out_ptr != tx_in_ptr ) { tx_out_ptr = (tx_out_ptr+1) % BUF_SIZE; /* point to next spot */ outp( com_base+THR, tx_buff[tx_out_ptr] ); /* and Tx */ } } // Flow control may be implemented somewhere else. // if( displacement >= (int)(0.8*BUF_SIZE) ) // put_com(DC3); // if( displacement <= (int)(0.2*BUF_SIZE) ) // put_com(DC1); outp (PIC_ICR, EOI); /* 8259 end of interrupt */ } long atox(char *cmdline) /* see tohex for details */ { long x = 0; int y; while( (y = tohex(*cmdline++)) >= 0 ) x = (x << 4) + y; return x; } int tohex(char letter) /* Returns TRUE (number) or ERROR (negative) */ { if( (letter >= '0') && (letter <= '9') ) letter = letter - '0'; else if( (letter >= 'A') && (letter <= 'F') ) letter = letter - 'A' + 10; else if( (letter >= 'a') && (letter <= 'f') ) letter = letter - 'a' + 10; else letter = -1; return (int)letter; } At 12:07 AM 7/11/97 +1000, you wrote: >Hi all > >I know over the past we have all gotten in on the topic of PC - ALDL >type interfaces and so on....I know i played around for hours and hours >tyring to get it all to work.....HA! didnt have much luck with the >tricky baud rates.... anyway has anyone got the diacom progies >floating around in the collection of auto stuff??? if so may i have a >copy PLEASE ....in return ill post a copy of "DIACOM" compatable >interface plans. I know that its not a normal reguest for the group but >i know that all will enjoy.....and most have travlled down this road. > >jalbury@tpgi.com.au > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 15:50:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA11255; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:45:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from master.nayzak.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA11250; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:45:21 -0400 Received: (from vanceand@localhost) by master.nayzak.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with UUCP id IAA02542 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:46:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: master.nayzak.com: vanceand set sender to sheridan@vanceandhines.com using -f Received: from [192.168.0.17] (bsheridan [192.168.0.17]) by vanceandhines.com (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id PAA16696 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:17:54 GMT X-Sender: sheridan@192.168.0.3 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 08:23:27 +0100 To: diy_efi From: sheridan@vanceandhines.com (Brad Sheridan) Subject: Re: Coolant temp sensor circuitry, injector lugs Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Also, the injector connectors used on late model Mazda engines, some >Mitsubishi's etc - what are they, where can the lugs that fit in them be >found? Do they use Nippon Denso injectors? I've been told that 87-89 Maximas, which use Nippon Denso injectors, had wiring harness problems, so as a result, Nissan dealers should have these connectors in stock, but the one dealer I've checked with so far was out. If they use Bosch, the Nissan dealer has those too, and they're also used in most European cars, so getting them from a VW dealer or the like should be easy. If you're not sure of the diff. between Bosch and Denso, the Bosch connectors are rectangular, and have a metal clip to secure the connector, the Denso are rectangular also, but have rounded off corners, and AFAIK don't use a metal clip to secure the connector. Instead they have a plastic push tab on the connector that secures it. The injectors should also have Denso or Bosch written on them somewhere. Hope this helps, Brad From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 15:56:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA11274; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 15:53:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailfw1.ford.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA11269; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:53:41 -0400 Received: by mailfw1.ford.com id AA16403 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:53:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199707101553.AA16403@mailfw1.ford.com> Received: by mailfw1.ford.com (Internal Mail Agent-2); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:53:40 -0400 Received: by mailfw1.ford.com (Internal Mail Agent-1); Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:53:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 11:52:50 -0400 From: "Edward C. Hernandez" Organization: V engine, Components B Department X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4m) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: linear EFI References: <9608231349.AA48934@hagar.ph.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Almost a year ago, tom cloud wrote: > > >TBI will lose the whole rpm range to a good port injected intake. > >Ergo... > > > >-- > >Ed Hernandez > > okay, Ed. You said your specialty was manifolds. Let me pick your > brain, if that's okay. Currently have the Holley 650 cfm TBI on > Edelbrock Performer manifold on 351W. Plan to get Motorsport 351W > (the cast-iron head dude with 346 hp rated). Do you think I'd lose > to put a 351W HO TPI system from a junk yard on it instead? Would > then play with either building a controller, modifying a Ford unit > or maybe (as pondered in previous post) a GM controller. > > I.E.: Do you think I'll lose by dumping the Performer and going to the > Ford stock TPI manifold? You may remember that the reason I dropped myself of the list was because I couldn't read all the mail. I still have 800 messages to go, and I know this is a late answer(maybe too late), but you will lose by dumpering the Performer. My opinion, not a fact. 799 to go... Ed Hernandez Ford AVT Motorsport Technology ehernan3@ed8719.pto.ford.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 16:45:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA11378; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:39:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ormail.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA11373; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:39:49 -0400 Received: from relay.jf.intel.com (relay.jf.intel.com [134.134.131.6]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id JAA09677 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by relay.jf.intel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id JAA09337 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 09:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.jf.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #8) Thu, 10 Jul 97 09:39:46 PDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 97 09:36:00 PDT From: Todd King Message-ID: To: diy_efi Subject: Re: turbo EGT rise, and wideband O2 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi <<< Corky Bell's new book published by Robert Bently called "Maximum Boost" is all about turbos and their theory, installation and tuning. It is excellent. From there you will learn that normal turbine back pressure is 2-3 times manifold pressure but the lower the better to a certain point as pressure is necessary to extract the energy as you suggested. >>> So it's out finally- I asked Corky (of Bell Engineering in San Antonio- I'm from there too; formerly Cartech in Dallas, which was formerly associated with Haltech, which is now in Australia or similar I believe... get me- quite the name-dropper!:-) a few months back but it was not yet out. I'll check it out! I've seen some interesting data from the Engine Analyzer SW on backpressure with turbo; I think the exh man press is typically a bit higher than the pressure on the intake side, or thereabouts. <<< I found in my own turbo car that had a pretty restrictive cat and exhaust, that I had very high temps (1650 deg F) until I lowered the pressure after the turbo. >>> I have a 3" mandrel bent downpipe from the turbo, which is run open at the track; no backpressure problem here! :-) <<< > >Also Frank, any way you could put a copy of that graph on the DIY web site > >so all of us could get a look at it. > Yes, I will do this as soon as I can buy a good 24 bit or better color scanner that will work with my Gateway 166 MMX portable. >>> I'll scan it here at work if you'll send me a copy of it; or you can just truck on over to your nearest Kinko's for the same result... BTW I hit up the company employee resource center recently for everything they had from the SAE- turned up lots of very intereasting stuff, all currently stacked on my desk (you want it when??? Haw-haw-haw...) Wouldn't you know it- several papers on wideband O2, like #890299: "Wide-Range A/F Sensor", or even better, #880559: "A Portable Fast Response A/F Ratio Meter Using an Extended Range Oxygen Sensor" by Nissan engineers. And you were wondering how all these automotive "garages" were suddenly coming up with these engineering "design feats" to bring out their new wonder A/F meters? :-) These papers are dated from the late 80's... Oh, and I can't resist one that'll make the list collectively cringe- #910259: "A PC Engine Control Development System"... remember that thread <*shiver*>? Todd tking@scic.intel.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 16:56:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA11410; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:51:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA11405; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:51:41 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr9-dialup52.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01IL2M2W32EO99EQMF@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:50:39 EDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:53:23 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Diacom Interface! In-reply-to: <199707101514.IAA06746@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970710125323.009078d0@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >This software works for 8192. Howdy there Peter... 8192 Baud... that's not for the 1986 ECM's is it? They are a tad old, so I wasn't sure if they were the phase modulated 160 baud ECMs. Just curious... saw your post and if my ECM can work at 8192 baud, you just saved me a month of research :) Thansk! Fred From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 17:09:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA11473; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 17:04:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA11468; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:04:52 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA08124 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:04:54 -0700 Message-ID: <33C516F2.4FD8CAB8@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:08:02 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions References: <3.0.1.32.19970710110618.00909580@mail56.MCIONE.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > >Where is UUCP and RTF? I checked the MIME check box, but I don't really know > >what this does (and if it works I probably don't care). I think I cured > the attachment > > RTF is rich text format, which is Window's way of making things pretty to > look at. Unfortunately, until the world gets to Outlook, we gotta turn it > off. > > Mime is a type of encoding, see the bottom of all your messages... that > MIME encoding. UUCP is the default if you turn MIME off, UUCP goes on. > Its one or the other. > > >problem by changing the character set from some ISO set to the US ASCII. > I am > >still hoping to find a way to avoid the hard returns at the end of every > line >though. > > Not doable my friend... anything I want unformatted to archive for later > use, I cut and paste into word, and do a "search and replace" removing all > the carriage returns. A lot of work if you ask me :) > Man, that Billybob stuff sure sounds like a hassle. ;) -j- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 20:12:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA11819; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:03:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA11814; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:03:53 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr12-dialup6.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01IL2SRPJO8I96YRG1@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:02:31 EDT Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 14:18:19 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Introduction & O2 Sensor Questions In-reply-to: <33C516F2.4FD8CAB8@johnny-enterprises.com> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970710141819.008f2e80@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3.0.1.32.19970710110618.00909580@mail56.MCIONE.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Man, that Billybob stuff sure sounds like a hassle. ;) Can be :) Not to us computer types. Car engineering is the hassle :) Cheers, Fred From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 20:13:57 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA11838; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:12:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fireball.smartnet.co.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA11833; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:12:06 -0400 Received: from nico (pta-dialin-04.smartnet.co.za [196.25.216.133]) by fireball.smartnet.co.za (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA00236 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:16:01 +0200 Message-Id: <199707102016.WAA00236@fireball.smartnet.co.za> From: "nico badenhorst" To: Subject: re . le jetronic fault codes Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:10:39 +0300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi hi guys , i have a small favor to ask, (please exuse me if this is a bit off the subject,) has anybody heard of a variation of the bosch jetronic system called the le jetronic, or l3 jetronic? i am desperately looking for the description of the error codes generated by this system. anyboby knows where i can find this ? the agents are typicaly thight lipped about this .. any info on this will be apreciated thanx a lot , nico badenhorst From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 20:33:32 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA11939; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:29:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA11934; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:29:21 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-52-1301.direct.ca [204.174.250.97]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id NAA07896 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707102029.NAA07896@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Diacom Interface! Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Fred and all You will need the include files. Either mail me direct or if people want i will include em with the text.. If you ecm uses a blue calpak it will work. If just a 2732 it is 160 baud.. I have posted the interface previously.. It is in tango format. Unfortunately i can't get the scanner to work so that is the format it will stay it.. GL:peter At 12:53 PM 7/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >>This software works for 8192. > >Howdy there Peter... 8192 Baud... that's not for the 1986 ECM's is it? >They are a tad old, so I wasn't sure if they were the phase modulated 160 >baud ECMs. > >Just curious... saw your post and if my ECM can work at 8192 baud, you just >saved me a month of research :) > >Thansk! > >Fred > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 20:43:43 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA12063; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:40:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA12058; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:40:15 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-52-1301.direct.ca [204.174.250.97]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id NAA10119 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:40:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707102040.NAA10119@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: HC11 EFI Code Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Well here is an example 10 year old engineering project.. Have fun:peter ***************************************************************** FUEL INJECTION CODE VERSIONC ***************************************************************** IOREGS EQU $1000 PORTA EQU $00 PORTB EQU $04 CFORC EQU $0B TCNT EQU $0E TIC3 EQU $14 TOC2 EQU $18 TOC3 EQU $1A TOC4 EQU $1C TOC5 EQU $1E TCTL1 EQU $20 TCTL2 EQU $21 TMSK1 EQU $22 TFLG1 EQU $23 TMSK2 EQU $24 TFLG2 EQU $25 PACTL EQU $26 ADCTL EQU $30 ADR1 EQU $31 ADR2 EQU $32 ADR3 EQU $33 ADR4 EQU $34 OPTION EQU $39 JMPTOF EQU $00D0 JMPTOC2 EQU $00DC JMPTOC5 EQU $00D3 JMPIC3 EQU $00E2 RTIVEC EQU $00EB JMP_OP EQU $7E ;Code for jump instruction RISEIC3 EQU %00000001 MASKIC3 EQU %00000001 CLRIC3 EQU %00000001 TOFMASK EQU %10000000 OUTRHLF EQU $FFB5 ;Ascii output routines in monitor OUTLHLF EQU $FFB2 OUT1BYT EQU $E4D5 OUT1BSP EQU $E4E4 OUT2BSP EQU $E4E1 OUTCRLF EQU $E4ED OUTSTRG EQU $E4FD BUFFALO EQU $E0B2 ;Return to monitor FUEL EQU $C600 ;Fueling table CHOKE EQU $C700 ;Choke enrichment table COLD EQU $C710 ;Cold run enrichment table ORG $0000 PERIOD RMB 3 TIMER2 RMB 3 CLOCK RMB 2 CLOCKA RMB 2 SECOND RMB 1 TOC2CNT RMB 2 TOC5CNT RMB 2 COUNTER RMB 2 TOFCNT RMB 1 BANK1 RMB 1 BANK2 RMB 1 START RMB 1 RPMVAL RMB 1 RPMFRAC RMB 1 VACVAL RMB 1 VACFRAC RMB 1 AVAL RMB 1 BVAL RMB 1 CVAL RMB 1 DVAL RMB 1 X1VAL RMB 1 X2VAL RMB 1 DIFVAL RMB 1 T1 RMB 2 T2 RMB 2 CALCVAL RMB 2 MAPVAL RMB 1 FUELVAL RMB 2 MULFLAG RMB 1 QUOTE RMB 5 ;QUOTIENT BIN TO BCD ROUTINE ****************************************************************** START OF PROGRAM * ***************************************************************** ORG $C000 RMP SEI ;Disable interrupts LDX #IOREGS ******************************************************************INIT TIMER OVERFLOW ROUTINE(give periods greater than 32 mS) * ***************************************************************** CLR TOFCNT ;set overflow counter to zero LDAA #JMP_OP STAA JMPTOF LDD #TOFINT STD {JMPTOF+1} LDAA #TOFMASK STAA TMSK2,X ;Enable timer overflow interrupt - TOI STAA TFLG2,X ;Clear the timer overflow flag - TOF ******************************************************************SETUP UP INPUT CAPTURE INTERRUPT ROUTINE(to measure RPM) * ***************************************************************** LDAA #JMP_OP STAA JMPIC3 LDD #IC3INT STD {JMPIC3+1} LDAA #RISEIC3 STAA TCTL2,X LDAA #CLRIC3 STAA TFLG1,X ;Clear input capture flag - IC3F LDD #0 STD PERIOD STAA {PERIOD+2} STD CLOCK ****************************************************************** IDLE AIR MOTOR CONTROL SETUP * ***************************************************************** LDAA #JMP_OP STAA JMPTOC2 LDD #TOC2INT STD {JMPTOC2+1} LDAA #%01010000 STAA TCTL1,X LDAA #$41 ;Enable OC2I and IC3I STAA TMSK1,X LDD #!60000 ;slowest stepper speed STD TOC2CNT ADDD TCNT,X ;Hold off first TOC2 interrupt STD TOC2,X ****************************************************************** Set up and start A to D * ***************************************************************** LDAA #%10000000 ;ADPU = 1 STAA OPTION,X LDAA #%00110000 ;SCAN = 1, MULT = 1, CHAN 0 TO 3 STAA ADCTL,X LDAA #4 STAA BANK1 LDAA #8 STAA BANK2 LDAA #1 STAA START LDD #2000 ;Something to start out with STD FUELVAL ****************************************************************** SETUP REAL TIME INTERRUPT (Clock) * ***************************************************************** TD LDD $0000 STD CLOCKA LDAA $61 STAA SECOND LDAA #JMP_OP STAA RTIVEC LDD #CONT STD {RTIVEC+1} LDAA #%00000010 STAA PACTL,X LDAA #%11000000 STAA TMSK2,X LDAA #%01000000 STAA TFLG2,X ****************************************************************** START OF MAIN REPITITIVE LOOP * ***************************************************************** EDGE1 SEI ;Disable interrupts sensitive LDAA PERIOD STAA TIMER2 LDD {PERIOD+1} ;Get a working copy of ignition period STD {TIMER2+1} ; in usec CLI ;Enable interrupts CPD #!37500 ;If RPM < 400 then START mode BLS ON1 ****************************************************************** STARTING ROUTINE * ***************************************************************** STMODE LDAA #1 STAA START LDAB {IOREGS+ADR3} ;GET STARTING TEMP LSRB LSRB LSRB LSRB LDX #CHOKE ABX LDAA 0,X LDAB #!200 MUL ;STARTING PULSE WIDTH STD FUELVAL JMP OUTIT ON1 XGDX TST TIMER2 ;If greater than 65535 then START mode BNE STMODE LDD #!2343 ;If greater than 6400 RPM then CPD {TIMER2+1} ; set to 6400 RPM BLO ON2 STD {TIMER2+1} ON2 CLR START LDX {TIMER2+1} LDD #!37500 ;400 RPM = 37500 USEC IDIV DEX XGDX STAB RPMVAL XGDX LDX {TIMER2+1} FDIV ;get fraction XGDX LSRA LSRA LSRA LSRA STAA RPMFRAC LDAB {IOREGS+ADR2} STAB VACVAL ANDB #%00001111 STAB VACFRAC LDAB VACVAL ANDB #%11110000 STAB VACVAL LDX #FUEL ABX LDAB RPMVAL ABX LDAA 0,X STAA AVAL CMPB #15 BEQ OK1 INX OK1 LDAA 0,X STAA BVAL LDAB #16 LDAA VACVAL CMPA #$F0 BEQ OK2 ABX OK2 LDAA 0,X STAA DVAL LDAA RPMVAL CMPA #15 BEQ OK3 DEX OK3 LDAA 0,X STAA CVAL * X1 = AVAL + (BVAL - AVAL) * RPMFRAC / 16 LDX AVAL PSHX LDAA RPMFRAC PSHA JSR CALCIT STAB X1VAL * X2 = DVAL + (CVAL - DVAL) * RPMFRAC / 16 LDX CVAL PSHX LDAA RPMFRAC PSHA JSR CALCIT STAB X2VAL * MAPVAL = X1VAL + (X2VAL - X1VAL) * VACFRAC / 16 LDX X1VAL PSHX LDAA VACFRAC PSHA JSR CALCIT STAB MAPVAL LDAA #!156 MUL STD FUELVAL ****************************************************************** OUTPUT PARAMETERS TO TERMINAL * ***************************************************************** OUTIT LDX #STARTIT JSR OUTSTRG LDX #START JSR OUT1BSP LDD {TIMER2+1} JSR BINBCD JSR OUTBCD LDX #USEC ;Print "uSec" JSR OUTSTRG LDX #{ADR2+IOREGS} JSR OUT1BSP JSR OUT1BSP JSR OUT1BSP LDX #AVAL JSR OUT1BSP LDX #VACVAL JSR OUT1BSP LDX #RPMVAL JSR OUT1BSP LDX #PW JSR OUTSTRG LDD FUELVAL LSRD JSR BINBCD JSR OUTBCD LDX #USEC JSR OUTSTRG LDD CLOCKA JSR BINBCD JSR OUTBCD JSR OUTCRLF ;Add a CR/LF LDX #!500 ;Let the poor PC catch up!!!!!!! BIGWAIT CLR COUNTER WAIT DEC COUNTER BNE WAIT DEX BNE BIGWAIT JSR SESTEP JMP EDGE1 ****************************************************************** OUTPUT A BCD VALUE SUBROUTINE * ***************************************************************** OUTBCD LDAA QUOTE ;Print the period in hex JSR OUTRHLF LDAA {QUOTE+1} JSR OUTRHLF LDAA {QUOTE+2} JSR OUTRHLF LDAA {QUOTE+3} JSR OUTRHLF LDAA {QUOTE+4} JSR OUTRHLF RTS ****************************************************************** BINARY TO BCD CONVERSION SUBROUTINE * ***************************************************************** BINBCD LDX #$2710 ;LOAD DIVISOR 10,000 IDIV XGDX STAB QUOTE XGDX LDX #$3E8 ;LOAD DIVISOR 1000 IDIV XGDX STAB {QUOTE+1} XGDX LDX #$64 ;LOAD DIVISOR 100 IDIV XGDX STAB {QUOTE+2} XGDX LDX #$A ;LOAD DIVISOR 10 IDIV XGDX STAB {QUOTE+3} XGDX STAB {QUOTE+4} RTS ***************************************************************** * IDLE AIR MOTOR SPEED AND DIRECTION CONTROL SUBROUTINE * ***************************************************************** SESTEP LDX #IOREGS LDAB ADR4,X CMPB #$C0 BHS UPP CMPB #$40 BLO DOWNE LDAB #$00 STAB PORTB,X BRA MOVER DOWNE LDAB #$10 STAB PORTB,X JMP MOVER UPP LDAB #$30 STAB PORTB,X MOVER RTS ****************************************************************** TIMER OVERFLOW INTERRUPT ROUTINE * ***************************************************************** TOFINT INC TOFCNT BPL TOFINT1 ;Do not let TOFCNT overflow DEC TOFCNT TOFINT1 LDAA #TOFMASK STAA {IOREGS+TFLG2} ;Clear the timer overflow flag RTI ***************************************************************** * REAL TIME INTERRUPT ROUTINE (Clock) * *****************************************************************CONT LDAA SECOND DECA BNE CONTA LDD CLOCKA ADDD #$0001 STD CLOCKA LDAA #!61 CONTA STAA SECOND LDAA #%01000000 STAA {IOREGS+TFLG2} RTI ****************************************************************** MAIN IGN TIMER AND INJECTOR DRIVER INTERRUPT ROUTINE * ***************************************************************** IC3INT LDX #IOREGS LDD TIC3,X BMI IC3INT1 TST TFLG2,X BPL IC3INT1 INC TOFCNT IC3INT1 SUBD CLOCK STD {PERIOD+1} BCC IC3INT2 DEC TOFCNT IC3INT2 LDAA TOFCNT STAA PERIOD CLC ROR PERIOD ;Change to usec ROR {PERIOD+1} ROR {PERIOD+2} CLR TOFCNT LDD TIC3,X STD CLOCK BMI IC3INT3 LDAA TFLG2,X BPL IC3INT3 DEC TOFCNT IC3INT3 LDAA START ;Check for START mode: 0 = RUN BEQ IC3INT6 JSR FIREB1 DEC BANK1 BNE IC3INT4 BRA IC3INT7 IC3INT6 DEC BANK1 BNE IC3INT4 JSR FIREB1 IC3INT7 LDAA #8 STAA BANK1 IC3INT4 LDAA START ;Check for START mode: 0 = RUN BEQ IC3INT8 JSR FIREB2 DEC BANK2 BNE IC3INT5 BRA IC3INT9 IC3INT8 DEC BANK2 BNE IC3INT5 JSR FIREB2 IC3INT9 LDAA #8 STAA BANK2 IC3INT5 LDAA #1 STAA TFLG1,X ;Clear input capture flag - IC3F RTI ****************************************************************** Idle control motor interrupt routine * ***************************************************************** TOC2INT LDX #IOREGS LDD TOC2CNT ADDD TOC2,X STD TOC2,X LDAA #$40 STAA TFLG1,X RTI ***************************************************************** * SET INJECTOR OUTPUT PULSEWIDTH INTERRUPT ROUTINE * ***************************************************************** FIREB1 LDD FUELVAL BEQ FIREB1E ADDD TCNT,X STD TOC3,X BSET TCTL1,X,%00110000 ;Set OC3 to 1 on forced compare LDAA #%00100000 ;Force OC3 STAA CFORC,X BCLR TCTL1,X,%00010000 ;Set OC3 to 0 on timer compare FIREB1E RTS FIREB2 LDD FUELVAL BEQ FIREB2E ADDD TCNT,X STD TOC4,X BSET TCTL1,X,%00001100 LDAA #%00010000 STAA CFORC,X BCLR TCTL1,X,%00000100 FIREB2E RTS ****************************************************************** RECOVER PARAMETERS LOST BEFORE RTI SUBROUTINE * ***************************************************************** CALCIT TSX LDD 3,X ;Get back AVAL (CVAL, X1VAL) and CBA ; BVAL (DVAL, X2VAL) BHI CALCIT1 STAA 4,X STAB 3,X BRA CALCIT2 CALCIT1 LDAA #16 SUBA 2,X STAA 2,X CALCIT2 LDD 3,X SBA LDAB 2,X MUL STD T1 LSRD LSRD LSRD LSRD STD T2 ADDB 4,X STD CALCVAL PULX ;Get the RETURN address PULA ;Clean up the STACK PULY PSHX ;Return RETURN address to STACK RTS ****************************************************************** TEXT STORAGE * *****************************************************************USEC FCB ' uS ' FCB $04 STARTIT FCB ' Start = ' FCB $04 PW FCB ' Pulse Width = ' FCB $04 ****************************************************************** FUEL CONTROL MAP * ***************************************************************** ORG $C600 FCB !90,!130,!145,!161,!163,!165,!167,!169 FCB !173,!171,!169,!165,!163,!161,!159,0 FCB !85,!120,!133,!157,!158,!160,!162,!163 FCB !164,!163,!161,!159,!157,!155,!154,0 FCB !80,!110,!125,!141,!142,!143,!145,!153 FCB !153,!153,!148,!146,!144,!142,!141,0 FCB !75,!105,!115,!123,!129,!131,!133,!137 FCB !143,!141,!139,!135,!131,!127,!124,0 FCB !70,!90,!105,!117,!118,!122,!125,!130 FCB !131,!131,!127,!125,!122,!119,!118,0 FCB !65,!70,!95,!110,!111,!115,!119,!125 FCB !127,!126,!123,!120,!116,!113,!112,0 FCB !60,!62,!80,!104,!105,!110,!111,!117 FCB !119,!117,!111,!108,!107,!106,!105,0 FCB !55,!56,!72,!97,!98,!99,!103,!110 FCB !113,!111,!107,!102,!101,!99,!98,0 FCB !50,!51,!68,!87,!88,!90,!96,!101 FCB !106,!103,!98,!95,!93,!91,!90,0 FCB !44,!45,!62,!75,!79,!85,!92,!98 FCB !101,!99,!93,!90,!86,!85,!84,0 FCB !42,!43,!55,!71,!76,!80,!84,!89 FCB !92,!89,!86,!83,!81,!75,!73,0 FCB !40,!41,!43,!52,!58,!63,!67,!73 FCB !71,!73,!69,!97,!65,!63,!61,0 FCB !37,!37,!37,!41,!48,!54,!58,!61 FCB !63,!61,!59,!57,!55,!54,!53,0 FCB !36,!36,!36,!38,!42,!47,!51,!54 FCB !55,!53,!51,!50,!48,!47,!46,0 FCB !34,!34,!34,!35,!38,!42,!46,!48 FCB !49,!47,!45,!44,!43,!42,!41,0 FCB !27,!27,!28,!29,!31,!33,!35,!37 FCB !38,!37,!35,!33,!31,!30,!29,0 ****************************************************************** COLD START ENRICHMENT TABLE * ***************************************************************** ORG $C700 FCB !120,!110,!100,!90,!80,!75,!70,!65 FCB !60,!55,!50,!45,!40,!35,!30,!20 END From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 23:20:27 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA12875; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:14:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA12870; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:14:02 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-06c13.direct.ca [204.174.249.93]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id QAA07381 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 16:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707102313.QAA07381@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Diacom Interface! Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi HI guys This software is for 8192 only.. It will only give you a hex dump of the aldl data stream.. You must order most P4s to transmitt the data stream #730 needs F4 57 01 00 CS #165 needs 80 56 00 CS with a caveat though. Being capable of both 8192 and 160 you must wait till a slow frame finishes and then transmitt the aldl request.. Included is the first include file GL:peter At 12:53 PM 7/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >>This software works for 8192. > >Howdy there Peter... 8192 Baud... that's not for the 1986 ECM's is it? >They are a tad old, so I wasn't sure if they were the phase modulated 160 >baud ECMs. > >Just curious... saw your post and if my ECM can work at 8192 baud, you just >saved me a month of research :) > >Thansk! > >Fred > Cut****************************************************************** /* ALT_KEY.H */ /* Defines PC extended key codes */ #define NUL_CHAR 3 #define ShTab 15 #define ALTQ 16 #define ALTW 17 #define ALTE 18 #define ALTR 19 #define ALTT 20 #define ALTY 21 #define ALTU 22 #define ALTI 23 #define ALTO 24 #define ALTP 25 #define ALTA 30 #define ALTS 31 #define ALTD 32 #define ALTF 33 #define ALTG 34 #define ALTH 35 #define ALTJ 36 #define ALTK 37 #define ALTL 38 #define ALTZ 44 #define ALTX 45 #define ALTC 46 #define ALTV 47 #define ALTB 48 #define ALTN 49 #define ALTM 50 #define F1 59 #define F2 60 #define F3 61 #define F4 62 #define F5 63 #define F6 64 #define F7 65 #define F8 66 #define F9 67 #define F10 68 #define Home 71 #define Up 72 #define PgUp 73 #define Left 75 #define Right 77 #define End 79 #define Down 80 #define PgDn 81 #define Ins 82 #define Del 83 From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 23:54:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA13050; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:50:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mars.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA13039; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:50:05 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (d66.t1.tecinfo.com [208.143.106.198]) by mars.tecinfo.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA23465 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:50:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:50:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707102350.SAA23465@mars.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "George M. Dailey" Subject: Re: Fuel pump Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Get a Feiro sending unit and put an L98 pump in it. You will have to trim the tubing on it but you can eliminate the low pres pump and small tank. Sending unit is identical as is the mounting flange. Same depth also. GMD At 05:42 PM 7/7/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All > > Had my fuel pump give out on me today. Due to the heat 100+ deg. >Going to fab heat shield to try to band aid problem. The setup in the pu is >a low press pump, small storage tank, high press pump - high press pump is >the one quitting . Anyone have suggestions or ideas? This the third time in >2yrs. > >Vance > > > George M. Dailey gmd@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 10 23:54:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA13051; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:50:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mars.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA13045; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:50:07 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (d66.t1.tecinfo.com [208.143.106.198]) by mars.tecinfo.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA23473 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:50:04 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 18:50:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707102350.SAA23473@mars.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "George M. Dailey" Subject: RE:RE:fuel pump Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi 50 psi is the pressure from pump to regulator. All excess fuel not needed to mainain this pressure is dumped back to the tank. The feiro sending unit is the answer to your prayers. Both of them! works for me, and they're tested on several million cars! gmd At 06:29 PM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote: >Have considered installing high press pump in both tanks, but most >electric cross over valves are only rated at 60 psi. 50 psi at engine is >probably 100 psi at pump. > >Thank for all the help > Vance > > > George M. Dailey gmd@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 01:46:57 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA13288; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:33:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA13283; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 21:33:21 -0400 Received: from default ([207.146.52.73]) by mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA9825 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:33:12 +0000 Message-ID: <33C58D2A.7AC0@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:32:26 -0500 From: "David C. Carlson" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: fuel pump current draw References: <199707102350.SAA23473@mars.tecinfo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I desire to size a relay for a medium pressure EFI fuel pump. Does anyone have data on the Bosch pumps for starting inrush, and average running current? Has anyone considered driving the fuel pump with a MOSFET or IGBT? Thanks in advance, Dave From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 02:26:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA13387; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:17:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA13382; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:17:45 -0400 Received: from javer96 (ppp68.snowcrest.net [207.201.18.84]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA13385 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:17:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707110217.TAA13385@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: RE:RE:fuel pump Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi George Thanks for idea on in tank sending units. Any ideas for cross over valve that will stand pressure? Do you need to fab baffle for tanks? My pu is a 74 with 16 gal tanks. Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 02:26:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA13395; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:19:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA13390; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:19:09 -0400 Received: from javer96 (ppp68.snowcrest.net [207.201.18.84]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA13561 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 19:19:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707110219.TAA13561@mtshasta.snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: Re: fuel pump current draw Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 08:32 PM 7/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >I desire to size a relay for a medium pressure EFI fuel pump. Does >anyone have data on the Bosch pumps for starting inrush, and average >running current? Has anyone considered driving the fuel pump with a >MOSFET or IGBT? > >Thanks in advance, > >Dave > >Bosch relays used in auto apps are rated at 20 or 30 amps -easy to get Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 03:42:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA13502; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:34:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from usr05.primenet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA13497; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:34:39 -0400 Received: from primenet.com (root@mailhost02.primenet.com [206.165.5.53]) by usr05.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA26872 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:34:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from stbhome (ip173.msp.primenet.com [206.165.50.173]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA07787 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:34:37 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <33C5A9D1.5590@primenet.com> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:35:30 -0500 From: Simon Bosworth X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: Need Ford MAF sensor connector Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Does anyone out there have a connector, (preferably with some wire attached), that will mate with a Ford MAF sensor from a '92 Escort 1.9L. I suspect that the connector is the same for many Ford engines. I am going to use the sensor and throttle body on my EFI MGB project. Thanks, Simon -- ------------------------ Simon Bosworth simonb@primenet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 03:55:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA13533; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:47:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA13528; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:47:43 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-06c09.direct.ca [204.174.249.89]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id UAA24053 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707110347.UAA24053@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: fuel pump current draw Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I don't want to sound like a GM sales man but the latest GM relays 90 up are quite reliable and cheap. Get a harness with three of em and weatherpack connectors from a j car for 20$.from a wrecker.. Note not camaro they fetch more because of them no good rod guys.. CYall:peter At 07:19 PM 7/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 08:32 PM 7/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >>I desire to size a relay for a medium pressure EFI fuel pump. Does >>anyone have data on the Bosch pumps for starting inrush, and average >>running current? Has anyone considered driving the fuel pump with a >>MOSFET or IGBT? >> >>Thanks in advance, >> >>Dave >> >>Bosch relays used in auto apps are rated at 20 or 30 amps -easy to get > >Vance > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 03:55:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA13541; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:50:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA13536; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:50:00 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-06c09.direct.ca [204.174.249.89]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id UAA24288 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707110349.UAA24288@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: C stuff Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi all here is second include for coms prog Should help all you good C++ guys get going on diacom clone. Sorry to tie up the bandwidth. but we gotta get something going here. Tnx:peter /* ASCII.H DRT v 1.00 930302 */ /* Standard definitions of ASCII control characters */ #define NUL 0x00 #define SOH 0x01 #define STX 0x02 #define ETX 0x03 #define EOT 0x04 #define ENQ 0x05 #define ACK 0x06 #define BEL 0x07 /* beep */ #define BS 0x08 /* backspace */ #define HT 0x09 /* tab */ #define LF 0x0A /* linefeed */ #define VT 0x0B #define FF 0x0C /* formfeed (^L) */ #define CR 0x0D /* carriage return */ #define SO 0x0E #define SI 0x0F #define DLE 0x10 #define DC1 0x11 /* ^Q */ #define DC2 0x12 #define DC3 0x13 /* ^S */ #define DC4 0x14 #define NAK 0x15 #define SYN 0x16 #define ETB 0x17 #define CAN 0x18 #define EM 0x19 #define SUB 0x1A #define ESC 0x1B #define FS 0x1C #define GS 0x1D #define RS 0x1E #define US 0x1F #define SP 0x20 /* space */ #define DEL 0x7F /* delete */ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 05:33:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA13673; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 05:22:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA13668; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:22:49 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-10a10.direct.ca [204.174.245.58]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id WAA13644 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 22:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707110522.WAA13644@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re:more C stuff Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Gang This will be the last include and I will try my best to disappear.. /* COMDEFS.H DRT v 2.10 950218 This include file contains most of the definitions needed for a PC serial communications program. It should be in the same directory as your source code. Place the following statement in your source file: #include "comdefs.h" // note "", not <>! */ /* Don't worry about what the following does, but be sure */ /* to keep it if you might use a different version of the */ /* Turbo or Borland C/C++ compiler... */ #ifdef __cplusplus /* defined for C++ 3.x */ #define __CPPARGS ... /* supports C++ 3 & BC */ #else #define __CPPARGS /* supports C++ 2.x */ #endif /* 8259 Priority Interrupt Controller registers and bits */ #define PIC_ICR 0x20 /* interrupt ctrl reg */ #define PIC_IMR 0x21 /* interrupt mask reg */ #define IRQ4M 0x10 /* COM1/3 interrupt mask */ #define IRQ3M 0x08 /* COM2/4 interrupt mask */ #define EOI 0x20 /* End of Interrupt bit */ #define INT_C 0x0C /* COM1/3 interrupt no. */ #define INT_B 0x0B /* COM2/4 interrupt no. */ /* Port-specific definitions */ #define COM1 0x3F8 /* COM port base address */ #define COM2 0x2F8 #define COM3 0x3E8 #define COM4 0x2E8 /* The following declarations refer to the offset from */ /* the base address of COMx for each of the 8250 registers */ #define THR 0 /* DLAB = 0 */ #define RBR 0 /* 0 */ #define DLL 0 /* 1 */ #define DLM 1 /* 1 */ #define IER 1 /* 0 */ #define IIR 2 #define LCR 3 #define MCR 4 #define LSR 5 #define MSR 6 /* Line control register bit definitions */ #define DLAB 0x80 /* 1 => baud divisor */ #define SBRK 0x40 /* 1 => set TX to space */ #define STKP 0x20 /* 1 => mark or space */ #define EPS 0x10 /* 1 => even or space */ #define PEN 0x08 /* 1 => enables parity */ #define STB 0x04 /* 1 => 1.5 or 2 stops */ #define WLS1 0x02 /* 00 = 5; 01 = 6 bits */ #define WLS2 0x01 /* 10 = 7; 11 = 8 bits */ /* Line status register bit definitions */ #define TSRE 0x40 /* TX shift reg empty */ #define THRE 0x20 /* TX holding reg ety */ #define BI 0x10 /* break detected */ #define FE 0x08 /* framing error */ #define PE 0x04 /* parity error */ #define OE 0x02 /* overrun error */ #define DR 0x01 /* RX data ready */ /* Modem control register bit definitions */ #define LOOP 0x10 /* 1 => local loopback */ #define OUT2 0x08 /* set to enable ints */ #define OUT1 0x04 /* user output 2 */ #define RTS 0x02 /* Request to Send o/p */ #define DTR 0x01 /* Data Terminal Ready */ /* Modem status register bit definitions */ #define RLSD 0x80 /* 1 => carrier detect */ #define RI 0x40 /* 1 => ring indicator */ #define DSR 0x20 /* 1 => Data Set Ready */ #define CTS 0x10 /* 1 => Clear to Send */ #define DRLSD 0x08 /* 1 => change in RLSD */ #define TERI 0x04 /* 1 => RI changed 1->0 */ #define DDSR 0x02 /* 1 => change in DSR */ #define DCTS 0x01 /* 1 => change in CTS */ /* Interrupt enable register bit definitions */ #define EDSSI 0x08 /* int on RI or RLSD >1 */ #define ELSI 0x04 /* break or data error */ #define ETBEI 0x02 /* int on THRE -> 1 */ #define ERBFI 0x01 /* int on DR -> 1 */ /* Interrupt identification register bit definitions */ #define ID1 0x04 /* ID1 ID0 Int. Source */ #define ID0 0x02 /* 1 1 brk or error */ /* 1 0 data ready */ /* 0 1 THR empty */ /* 0 0 RI/RLSD */ #define IPEN 0x01 /* interrupt pending */ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 06:42:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA13763; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 06:34:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA13758; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 02:34:50 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du177-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.177]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA21896 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:34:34 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970710233653.00a302d0@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:36:56 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re: fuel pump current draw Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Just get one of those Bosch Style relays (Small Cube types), most are good for 20 amps, and that is more then enough! Sandy At 08:32 PM 7/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >I desire to size a relay for a medium pressure EFI fuel pump. Does >anyone have data on the Bosch pumps for starting inrush, and average >running current? Has anyone considered driving the fuel pump with a >MOSFET or IGBT? > >Thanks in advance, > >Dave > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 07:35:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA13844; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:28:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA13839; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 03:28:47 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa0927973; 11 Jul 97 8:27 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id IAA01601 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:19:23 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:19:23 +0100 Message-Id: <199707110719.IAA01601@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: re . le jetronic fault codes Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 22:10 10/07/97 +0300, you wrote: >hi guys , > >i have a small favor to ask, (please exuse me if this is a bit off the >subject,) >has anybody heard of a variation of the bosch jetronic system called the le >jetronic, or l3 jetronic? >i am desperately looking for the description of the error codes generated >by this system. >anyboby knows where i can find this ? > >the agents are typicaly thight lipped about this .. >any info on this will be apreciated >thanx a lot , > >nico badenhorst > > nico, Neither LE or L3 jetronic systems generate error codes; LE jetronic is an analoge system (no microprocessor!) used in Europe until eary '90's, L3 is an early digital system which followed it. Certainly in Europe the first Bosch system to use error codes was ML4.1 Motronic which followed L3. I hope this is the whole truth, it's certainly my understanding, hopefully someone will put me right if it's a load of tosh. Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 08:27:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA13919; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:20:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail1.uct.ac.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA13914; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:19:59 -0400 Received: by mail1.uct.ac.za via sendmail with stdio id for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:19:52 +0200 (SAT) (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #4 built 1996-Sep-28) Message-Id: Received: by mail1.uct.ac.za (Mort 2.18) id 1404 from SPORTS; Fri Jul 11 10:19:51 1997 From: "Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr" To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:30:50 UTC-2 Subject: Re:Which language do I learn? X-Confirm-Reading-To: "Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr" X-pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi all. I want to learn a programming language most suited to the sort of stuff discussed on this list i.e. for ignition and FI control. "C" seems to come up often, but I've also seen reference to Visual Basic, Delphi, etc. I know the VERY basics "C", but so little that it would be easy to change at this point. Speaking of "c", there seems to be so many variants of that! Please help. Thanks. AndrewDr A. N. Bosch Physiology Department/ Sports Science Institute University of Cape Town Medical School P. O. Box 115 Newlands 7700 South Africa From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 08:50:42 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA13952; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:42:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from quay.pipex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA13947; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:42:27 -0400 From: Kerrie.Thornton@interconnection.co.uk Received: (qmail 42 invoked from network); 11 Jul 1997 08:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO notes.interconnection.co.uk) (193.133.122.144) by quay.mail.pipex.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 1997 08:42:19 -0000 Received: by notes.interconnection.co.uk(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.05 (274.9 11-27-1996)) id 802564D1.002F9CC8 ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:40:03 +0100 X-Lotus-FromDomain: ISL To: DIY_EFI Message-ID: <802564D1.002EFE4C.00@notes.interconnection.co.uk> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:37:38 +0100 Subject: connectors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Kerrie Thornton@ISL 11/07/97 09:37 Hi all, The most common connectors, certainly bosch, are supplied by the AMP group. They are the junior timer range (originally designed for washing machines). These are the ones with the sprung wire running around the body of the connector. If you need some, then get in touch with a distributor and ask for samples (it works for me). The connectors usually carry the amp part no. even if someone elses name is written on them. Kerrie. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 08:50:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA13960; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:44:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA13955; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 04:44:26 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1302520; 11 Jul 97 9:39 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id JAA06790 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:39:20 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:39:20 +0100 Message-Id: <199707110839.JAA06790@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: DIY_EFI From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: EEC-iv connectors Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Can anybody help me find a source of Ford EEC-iv connectors to purchase? European spec. 3-row 60 pin format - I'm not sure if US components would be the same? I need to source both halves, ECU and engine harness and terminals. Part numbers and/or contact address would be much appreciated. Thanks Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 09:32:35 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA14088; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:26:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA14083; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 05:26:22 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0500132; 11 Jul 97 9:38 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id JAA06131 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:29:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:29:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199707110829.JAA06131@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: injector flow rates Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 07:53 10/07/97 -0700, you wrote: >Rich Mauruschat wrote: >> >> Does anyone have details of flow rates (static and dynamic at specified >> pressure) for Bosch injectors? >> The part numbers I am particularly interested in are: >> 0 280 150 203 >> 0 280 150 209 >> 0 280 150 211 >> 0 280 150 219 >> 0 280 150 227 >> 0 280 150 702 >> 0 280 150 703 >> 0 280 150 725 >> 0 280 150 727 >> 0 280 150 734 >> 0 280 150 744 >> A longer list would be great! > >Check out the list at http://www.co.jyu.fi/~rax/suutin.htm > >Some of the part #'s you were inquiring about are listed, plus several >more. It's mostly in Finnish, but you can still get the flow data off >the chart. > >-- >Best, > >Michael McBroom > >'87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) >'88 765T 154k >_____________________________________________________________Thanks Michael, great info. Anyone translate Finnish?? If anyone can fill in the rest of my list I would be grateful. Rich ____________ > >Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of >Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= >of Language http://mcbrooms.com >California State University, Fullerton >_________________________________________________________________________ > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 11:34:24 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id LAA14283; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:23:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wrzx07.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA14278; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:23:26 -0400 Received: from stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (wrzn12.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de [132.187.1.194]) by wrzx07.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09774 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:23:23 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from WRZN12/SpoolDir by stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (Mercury 1.32); 11 Jul 97 13:23:24 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by WRZN12 (Mercury 1.32); 11 Jul 97 13:23:05 +0200 Received: from user (132.187.248.6) by stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (Mercury 1.32) with ESMTP; 11 Jul 97 13:23:00 +0200 From: "Peter Rueb" To: Subject: Fw: injector flow rates Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:18:42 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Message-ID: <1B5966A0329@stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Here are some Values. All Fuel injectors are on one microfiche every bosch dealer should have. The numbers are from 0 288 150 203 up to about 900. So that would be too much to copy complete. Many injectors have the the same parameters but different sizes, and some of them are for CH 20v3 Gas or Heptane. Hope this helps. ---------- > Von: Rich Mauruschat > An: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Betreff: injector flow rates > Datum: Donnerstag, 10. Juli 1997 10:25 > > Does anyone have details of flow rates (static and dynamic at specified > pressure) for Bosch injectors? > The part numbers I am particularly interested in are: flow rate ccm/1000 cyc. p(bar) (ccm/min) > 0 280 150 203 185 5.05 2.5 0 280 150 204 167 4.6 2.5 0 280 150 205 170 4.08 2.5 0 280 150 206 167 7.9 2.5 0 280 150 207 107 7.9 2.5 0 280 150 208 133 3.15 2.5 > 0 280 150 209 167 3.96 2.5 0 280 150 210 133 3.15 2.5 > 0 280 150 211 146 3.37 3.0 0 280 150 213 300 8.77 3.0 0 280 150 214 185 4.38 3.0 0 280 150 215 214 5.77 2.5 0 280 150 216 214 5.77 2.5 0 280 150 217 167 5.17 2.5 0 280 150 218 217 9.7 2.5 > 0 280 150 219 167 4.95 2.5 0 280 150 220 146 3.45 3.0 0 280 150 221 149.6 (CH20v3) 171 (Heptane) > 0 280 150 227 > 0 280 150 702 189 3.95 3.0 > 0 280 150 703 149 3.1 3.0 > 0 280 150 725 170 3.6 2.5 > 0 280 150 727 131 4.1 2.5 > 0 280 150 734 200 4.3 2.5 > 0 280 150 744 214 7.1 2.5 > A longer list would be great! > > Cheers, > Richard Peter Rueb s68558@stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 12:20:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA14450; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:12:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from usarc-fw.army.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA14445; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:12:36 -0400 Received: from usarc-fw.army.mil (root@localhost) by usarc-fw.army.mil (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01988 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from usarcexch.army.mil ([55.124.130.251]) by usarc-fw.army.mil (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01984 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:14:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199707111214.IAA01984@usarc-fw.army.mil> Received: by USARCEXCH with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) id <3RFKL0JF>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:13:59 -0400 From: "Collins, Jackie, MAJ" To: diy_efi Subject: RE: Need Ford MAF sensor connector Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:52:16 -0400 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1458.49) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I'd be very interested in learning more about your MGB project. Could you give me some details? Thanks, Jack > ---------- > From: Simon Bosworth[SMTP:simonb@primenet.com] > Sent: Thursday, 10 July 1997 23:35 > To: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Need Ford MAF sensor connector > > Does anyone out there have a connector, (preferably with some wire > attached), that will mate with a Ford MAF sensor from a '92 Escort > 1.9L. > I suspect that the connector is the same for many Ford engines. I am > going to use the sensor and throttle body on my EFI MGB project. > > Thanks, > Simon > > > -- > ------------------------ > Simon Bosworth > simonb@primenet.com > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 13:53:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA14894; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:18:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gateway.symtx.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA14889; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:18:39 -0400 Received: from locutus.symtx.com by gateway.symtx.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA15902; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:15:54 -0500 Received: by locutus.symtx.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC8DD3.0854C3C0@locutus.symtx.com>; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:18:37 -0500 Message-Id: <01BC8DD3.0854C3C0@locutus.symtx.com> From: Greg Woods To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: GM TBI questions - again Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:18:36 -0500 Encoding: 16 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hey all, as some of you may remember I recently completed installation of a 86 GM TBI system into my 2.8l cherokee. I drove it around 1500 miles over the 4th of july weekend without any problems! However, their are a few things puzzling me. The car pops / backfires upon deceleration. Does this mean the air/fuel is too rich at that time? How can I fix this?? Also, upon acceleration I've noticed that the car is missing. I didn't notice this before the swap. Is their any way the TBI system could be causing this?? TIA Greg woods gwoods@symtx.com austin, tx 86 xj 2.8l tbi From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 14:16:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA14980; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:08:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.mustangeng.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA14975; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:08:40 -0400 Received: from mustangeng.com. by mail.mustangeng.com (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ja083625 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:08:28 -0500 Received: from MEI-Message_Server by mustangeng.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:08:05 -0500 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:05:05 -0500 From: James Thorne To: diy_efi Subject: DIY_EFI Digest V2 #232 -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Where do you get the CNG? At the Texas state fair a few years ago Lone Star Gas displayed a home pump. You hooked up to your gas line at home and hooked it to your car when you come home at night. I've been curious about Propane and CNG for years because of the reported 110 octane. 13:1 compression, here I come! _______________________________________________________________ There several service stations here in Houston that sell CNG. The Shell station on Beltway8 at Bellaire blvd is where we got it. But there are several others. Price: about 0.79 per Gal equiv. James Thorne From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 15:04:27 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA15061; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 14:57:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA15056; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:57:08 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-10c07.direct.ca [204.174.245.87]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id HAA19475 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 07:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707111457.HAA19475@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: GM TBI questions - again Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Greg.. Backfire on decel is prob a sticking injector. Fuel should almost be cut off. Check the tps setting too. Missing on accel could be spark as well as leanness. Can be many things.. So make sure the injectors don't leak or stick, check all the ig components, and check the tps for the prop voltage.. GL:peter At 08:18 AM 7/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Hey all, > >as some of you may remember I recently completed installation of a 86 GM TBI system >into my 2.8l cherokee. I drove it around 1500 miles over the 4th of july weekend >without any problems! However, their are a few things puzzling me. >The car pops / backfires upon deceleration. Does this mean the air/fuel is too rich >at that time? How can I fix this?? Also, upon acceleration I've noticed that the car >is missing. I didn't notice this before the swap. Is their any way the TBI system >could be causing this?? > >TIA > >Greg woods >gwoods@symtx.com >austin, tx >86 xj 2.8l tbi > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 15:53:30 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA15163; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:46:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from envy.ugcs.caltech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA15158; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 11:46:24 -0400 Received: from puree.ugcs.caltech.edu (puree.ugcs.caltech.edu [131.215.128.149]) by envy.ugcs.caltech.edu with ESMTP (8.8.5/UGCS:4.44) id IAA20889 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:46:23 -0700 (PDT) From: senator@ugcs.caltech.edu (Bill Bradley) Received: by puree.ugcs.caltech.edu (8.8.5/UGCS:4.43) id IAA12241; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707111546.IAA12241@puree.ugcs.caltech.edu> Subject: Re: GM TBI questions - again To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 08:46:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01BC8DD3.0854C3C0@locutus.symtx.com> from "Greg Woods" at Jul 11, 97 08:18:36 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > without any problems! However, their are a few things puzzling me. > The car pops / backfires upon deceleration. Does this mean the air/fuel is too rich There should be a deceleration fuel cut-off. When the throttle is closed, but the engine is above idle speed. Do you have the throttle position sensor hooked up (and adjusted)? > at that time? How can I fix this?? Also, upon acceleration I've noticed that the car > is missing. I didn't notice this before the swap. Is their any way the TBI system > could be causing this?? Possibly. Too lean of a mix will cause missing. Again, this sounds like a TPS problem. Bill From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 16:10:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA15201; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:04:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gaia.imes.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA15196; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:04:00 -0400 Received: from elvis (auspc149.imes.COM) by gaia.imes.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23161; Fri, 11 Jul 97 09:03:24 PDT Message-Id: <9707111603.AA23161@gaia.imes.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "steve ravet" To: "Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr" , diy_efi Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 10:55:13 +0000 Subject: Re:Which language do I learn? Priority: normal In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Hi all. I want to learn a programming language most suited to the > sort of stuff discussed on this list i.e. for ignition and FI > control. "C" seems to come up often, but I've also seen reference to > Visual Basic, Delphi, etc. I know the VERY basics "C", but so little > that it would be easy to change at this point. Speaking of "c", > there seems to be so many variants of that! Please help. You can't go wrong if you learn C. Compilers are available for virtually every processor ever made, and C is a low enough level language that you know more or less what sort of assembly will be generated. You'll also have to know some assembly for whatever processor you use. Vis basic, Delphi, C++ builder, and other products are much higher level languages. They are great for quickly prototyping a graphical application with menus, dialog boxes, etc. in windowing systems but have no place on the EFI computer itself. However, these would be good choices for a program on your laptop that you use to communicate with and change parameters on the EFI compter via a serial link. my suggestion: continue learning C. It will prove valuable in lots of things besides your EFI project. --steve From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 16:10:43 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA15193; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:02:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from irvine.clubnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA15188; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:02:31 -0400 Received: from smeade.edm.net (irv1-ppp26.dial.clubnet.net [206.126.139.26]) by irvine.clubnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11846 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707111602.JAA11846@irvine.clubnet.net> From: "Steve Meade" To: Subject: Re: Re:Which language do I learn? Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:02:23 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ---------- > From: Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re:Which language do I learn? > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 3:30 AM > > Hi all. I want to learn a programming language most suited to the > sort of stuff discussed on this list i.e. for ignition and FI > control. "C" seems to come up often, but I've also seen reference to > Visual Basic, Delphi, etc. I know the VERY basics "C", but so little > that it would be easy to change at this point. Speaking of "c", there > seems to be so many variants of that! Please help. > I'm sure I'm going to get blasted on this but I think it is best to learn Delphi (you'll actually be learning Pascal) because then you can generate easy to use programs quickly for either EFI or any stuff in general. C is more of the excepted norm but Delphi compilations are fast and much more versatile, and much easier to use, and very cheap right now. Oh, if you learn C you can count on having to learn C++ which is the object oriented version of C. With Delphi you get it all in one step. > Thanks. > AndrewDr A. N. Bosch > Physiology Department/ Sports Science Institute > University of Cape Town Medical School > P. O. Box 115 > Newlands 7700 > South Africa =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Steve Meade smeade@deltanet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 16:55:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA16076; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:47:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spartan.ac.BrockU.CA by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA16071; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:47:51 -0400 Received: from badger.ac.BrockU.CA by spartan.ac.BrockU.CA via ESMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/951211.SGI) for <@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA:diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> id MAA05917; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:47:45 -0400 Received: from Joe.iaw.on.ca by badger.ac.BrockU.CA via SMTP (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/951211.SGI) for id MAA01780; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:47:42 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970711130502.0073811c@badger.ac.brocku.ca> X-Sender: ja95ad@badger.ac.brocku.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:05:06 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Joe Aubertin Subject: Re: Need Ford MAF sensor connector Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 10:35 PM 7/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone out there have a connector, (preferably with some wire >attached), that will mate with a Ford MAF sensor from a '92 Escort >1.9L. >I suspect that the connector is the same for many Ford engines. I am >going to use the sensor and throttle body on my EFI MGB project. > >Thanks, >Simon Just go to a junk yard and grab one. Just bring some wire cuttters and cut the wires to the length you want. Thats what i did when i did my 88 Mustang GT Speed Density to Mass Air Conversion. > > >-- >------------------------ >Simon Bosworth >simonb@primenet.com > > __________________________________________________________ Joe Aubertin 1988 Ford Mustang GT & 1990 Cavalier Z24 Welland mailto:ja95ad@badger.ac.brocku.ca (5.0 mail) Ontario mailto:wot-mm@geocities.com (5.0 mail) Canada mailto:aubertin@iaw.com (joke list / misc ml) Brock University Joe Home Page: http://www.iaw.com/~aubertin/ Mustang Page: (ideas / tech articals welcome) http://www.iaw.com/~aubertin/88mgt/88mgt.htm __________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 16:58:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA16102; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:52:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-out2.apple.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA16097; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:52:47 -0400 Received: from scv2.apple.com (A17-128-100-140.apple.com [17.128.100.140]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA26240 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:50:38 -0700 Received: from [17.221.21.215] (knowb2.apple.com [17.221.21.215]) by scv2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA06582 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 09:50:50 -0700 Message-Id: <199707111650.JAA06582@scv2.apple.com> Subject: Re: injector flow rates Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 09:52:44 -0700 x-sender: briankk@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Brian Knowles To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Thursday, Jon Hanson said: (snip) >I only have a reference for one of the above (every little bit helps) > >part no application flow rate (cc/min) @pressure (bar) >0280 150 203 BMW 195 2.7 > >the ref (Jeff Hartmanns book) doesn't specify if the flow rate is >static or dynamic Hmmm..static flow rate.. Can't quite get my mind around that concept... This would be, like, economy mode? Brian From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 17:15:55 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA16155; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:08:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA16150; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:08:35 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA18386 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:08:34 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:08:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707111708.MAA18386@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ven-ca3-48.ix.netcom.com(207.92.176.112) by dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma018348; Fri Jul 11 12:08:17 1997 X-Sender: fcmtb@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: Re: conversion question + Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Michael, I've come up with different figures than you for the conversion. All I have for specific gravity is for race fuels, two brands, this is interesting. F&L 76 100 UL .72 .777 108L .72 110L .722 .728 114L .728 115L .75 118L .704 The trends are opposite. What's with that? Looks like changing brands would require tuning changes also. I did come across a post somewhere stating that in Au. 91oct was .73-74 and that 96oct was .76 Next for the conversion. You had a figure of "4546cm^3/gal" My calculator converts to 3785.4cc/gal With my figures of spec grav ranging from .704 to .777 I get a range of 5.875 to 6.48 #/gal At 01:20 PM 7/9/97 -0700, you wrote: >Todd King wrote: >> >> A couple of questions; a) what is the conversion for gal/hr to >> pounds/hr for gasoline? > >Whenever you want to convert from the volume of a substance to the mass >of that substance (or vice versa), you must know the density (or >specific gravity). In the case of gasoline, according to one of my >references, the density of gasoline can vary from 0.66 to 0.69 gm/cm^3 >(at STP). Split the difference, and call it 0.675gm/cm^3. > >I've worked out a conversion that will take one from ml/min to lb/hr, >which is handy when comparing Bosch to US injectors. Dividing ml/min by >11.2 will give you lb/hr. Conversely, multiplying lb/hr by 11.2 will >give you ml/min. > >In your case, you will need to arrive at the density of gasoline in US >units. I figure it to be 0.675gm/cm^3 x 4546cm^3/gal x 1 lb/453.6gm = >6.765 lb/gal of gasoline, on average. I'm sure someone else here will >have a chart listing the density of gasoline in US units. I don't. But >my calcs should be close. > >The rest is easy. Divide lb/hr by 6.765 to get gal/hr, multiply gal/hr >by 6.765 to get lb/hr. >Best, > >Michael McBroom > >'87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) >'88 765T 154k >_________________________________________________________________________ > >Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of >Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= >of Language http://mcbrooms.com >California State University, Fullerton >_________________________________________________________________________ > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 19:19:32 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA16486; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:05:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA16481; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:05:45 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du213-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.213]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA08675 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:05:28 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970711120742.00962350@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:07:51 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re: Re:Which language do I learn? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 09:02 AM 7/11/97 -0700, you wrote: >---------- >> From: Bosch, AN, Andrew, Dr >> To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Subject: Re:Which language do I learn? >> Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 3:30 AM >> >> Hi all. I want to learn a programming language most suited to the >> sort of stuff discussed on this list i.e. for ignition and FI >> control. "C" seems to come up often, but I've also seen reference to >> Visual Basic, Delphi, etc. I know the VERY basics "C", but so little >> that it would be easy to change at this point. Speaking of "c", there >> seems to be so many variants of that! Please help. >> > I'm sure I'm going to get blasted on this but I think it is best to learn >Delphi (you'll actually be learning Pascal) because then you can generate >easy to use programs quickly for either EFI or any stuff in general. C is >more of the excepted norm but Delphi compilations are fast and much more >versatile, and much easier to use, and very cheap right now. Oh, if you >learn C you can count on having to learn C++ which is the object oriented >version of C. With Delphi you get it all in one step. > Delphi is very good (I work for Borland!), but if you like the way Delphi works, but really want C/C++, the product to get is C++ Builder. It is exaclty like delphi V2.0 and you don't have to be a C++ expert to use it, ie, don't need to be a MFC expert to write window programs. 2 Cents From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 19:19:33 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA16496; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:07:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from italy.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA16491; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:07:09 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max1-cy-ca-08.earthlink.net [204.119.165.33]) by italy.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA22151 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33C6847D.10CC@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:07:41 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: conversion question + References: <199707111708.MAA18386@dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Fred Miranda wrote: > > Hi Michael, > I've come up with different figures than you for the conversion. > All I have for specific gravity is for race fuels, two brands, this is > interesting. > F&L 76 > 100 UL .72 .777 > 108L .72 > 110L .722 .728 > 114L .728 > 115L .75 > 118L .704 > > The trends are opposite. What's with that? It appears that F&L is adding more substance(s) of a higher specific gravity to increase octane, whereas 76 is adding more substance(s) of a lower specific gravity to acheive the same result. > Looks like changing brands would require tuning changes also. Sure does. Looks like changing octane will, too. I guess the bottom line is, if you're into serious tuning at the race track, bring along something to measure specific gravity on a batch-by-batch basis. That reminds me -- I've seen top fuel drag crews do exactly that (I took a photo of Dan Pastorini taking a specific gravity measurement at Famoso during the May Meets, oh must have been over ten years ago). I'd wondered at the time if it were really that critical to measure specific gravity. I guess, when the difference between winning and going home early can be measured in hundredths of a second, every detail helps. > Next for the conversion. > You had a figure of "4546cm^3/gal" > My calculator converts to 3785.4cc/gal Woops! You're absolutely right! I've got a Casio SF-5780, one of those fold-up business organizer jobs. I checked it just now -- it says 4.546l/gal . . . but 3.785l/US gal. What's up with THAT? Seems to me, it should read 4.546l/IMP gal, and 3.785l/gal (wondering if I bought a "gray market" model now). Oh well, glad you caught it, at least. Now I gotta redo my conversion factors. -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 19:21:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA16514; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:09:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA16509; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:09:41 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du213-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.213]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA08971 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:09:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970711121137.00a32c00@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 12:11:47 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re:Which language do I learn? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >You can't go wrong if you learn C. Compilers are available for >virtually every processor ever made, and C is a low enough level >language that you know more or less what sort of assembly will be >generated. You'll also have to know some assembly for whatever >processor you use. Vis basic, Delphi, C++ builder, and other >products are much higher level languages. True in some cases, but Delphi and C++ Builder allow you to create the simple stand alone apps (console, or dll's) that you might want without any of the fancy class lib stuff. C++builder is a really good choice if you want to do C/C++ programming _AND_ you later want to create Windoze applications. >They are great for quickly >prototyping a graphical application with menus, dialog boxes, etc. in >windowing systems but have no place on the EFI computer itself. >However, these would be good choices for a program on your laptop >that you use to communicate with and change parameters on the EFI >compter via a serial link. > >my suggestion: continue learning C. It will prove valuable in lots >of things besides your EFI project. > Yes!, the language of love for compute people, no flames ;-) Sandy From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 20:08:43 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA16792; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 19:55:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from freenet5.afn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA16787; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:55:41 -0400 Received: from Rhonda (ppp-01-ts13.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.206.216]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.5/AFN-1.0) with SMTP id PAA00866 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 15:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970711155424.1a0fdf4e@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn14222@pop3.afn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Chief Subject: Fiat woes Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I have messed around a little more trying to get my Fiat Spider 2000 FI running after sitting 4 years. Runs, revs to 2000rpm or so and dies. Good spark. Ignition is advancing. No vacuum leaks. Fuel pressure good. (40 psi with key on, 30 psi at idle) Air flow meter checks out OK. When I pull the plugs, they are sooty black indicating a rich condition I believe. But if it's rich, why does it deep dying out? The car refuses to rev about 2000 rpm or so. I watched the pressure guage the other day. At idle, 30 psi, rev the car and it cuts out at around 2000 rpm at which time the pressure rises towards 40 psi again until the car recovers and revs again. If you hold the throttle open enough, it will cycle by revving up, dying, revving up, dying, etc. What do you all make of the pressure rise. I assume the injectors stop firing at some point. Is it likely that they reach a certain point and stop firing or is it a computer telling them not to fire kind of thing? I have been advised from fellow list members to put a LED on the injector connectors to see when they are firing. Sorry, haven't done that yet but I will try. Any ideas?? Thanks in advance. Ed Hilker aka "Chief" '84 SS w/700-R4 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 21:06:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA16916; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 20:53:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from nz1.netzone.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA16911; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 16:53:42 -0400 Received: (from danielg@localhost) by nz1.netzone.com (8.8.6/8.6.9) id NAA13477 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:52:33 -0700 (MST) From: Daniel Grambihler Message-Id: <199707112052.NAA13477@nz1.netzone.com> Subject: Re: Fiat woes To: diy_efi Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 13:52:33 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.16.19970711155424.1a0fdf4e@pop3.afn.org> from "Chief" at Jul 11, 97 03:55:29 pm X-Confirm-Reading-To: danielg@eskimo.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Chief: You might try checking your crank sensor (I'm assuming you have one). I've seen this type of problem on other FI systems that came down to a faulty crank sensor (started stumbling above a certain RPM - cutting out like the ignition was dying). good luck - Daniel > > > I have messed around a little more trying to get my Fiat Spider 2000 FI > running after sitting 4 years. Runs, revs to 2000rpm or so and dies. > > Good spark. > Ignition is advancing. > No vacuum leaks. > Fuel pressure good. (40 psi with key on, 30 psi at idle) > Air flow meter checks out OK. > When I pull the plugs, they are sooty black indicating a rich condition I > believe. But if it's rich, why does it deep dying out? > > The car refuses to rev about 2000 rpm or so. I watched the pressure guage > the other day. At idle, 30 psi, rev the car and it cuts out at around 2000 > rpm at which time the pressure rises towards 40 psi again until the car > recovers and revs again. If you hold the throttle open enough, it will > cycle by revving up, dying, revving up, dying, etc. > > What do you all make of the pressure rise. I assume the injectors stop > firing at some point. Is it likely that they reach a certain point and stop > firing or is it a computer telling them not to fire kind of thing? > > I have been advised from fellow list members to put a LED on the injector > connectors to see when they are firing. Sorry, haven't done that yet but I > will try. > > Any ideas?? > > Thanks in advance. > > Ed Hilker aka "Chief" > '84 SS w/700-R4 > > -- Daniel Grambihler danielg@eskimo.com '47 CJ2A '87 328 GTS '95 D90 #3064 '96 900SS/CR From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 22:02:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA17036; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:48:58 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailer.fsu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA17031; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:48:54 -0400 Received: from garnet.acns.fsu.edu (gmhub.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.10]) by mailer.fsu.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04636 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:48:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (garnet2.acns.fsu.edu [128.186.195.3]) by garnet.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA31376 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:48:52 -0400 Received: from default (xyp25.acns.fsu.edu [146.201.2.45]) by garnet2.acns.fsu.edu (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA52793 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:48:51 -0400 Message-ID: <33C6AB00.E3FD6A36@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:52:01 -0400 From: Thomas Wright X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: Ford eec on a Jag 6 cyl X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi, I've been trying to find an adaptable oem fuel injection system to replace the Bosch L-Jet on my Jaguar 6cyl engine. The L-jet is woefully inadequate after 4000 rpm, especially on my modified engine which produces significantly more power above 4000 rpm than stock. After considering many systems, I have decided that the best and most easily adaptable one would be an EEC-iv with MAF, non-sequential, off of a V6 Mustang, T-bird or Ranger\Explorer. The only problem would be duplicating the signal from the Hall-effect sensor from the distributor. I already know that it is a square wave with about 50% duty cycle. The questions I have are : What is the amplitude(V)? What does the computer actually look for? Does it have to be a 50%duty cycle, or does the computer just need to see the correct number of pulses? The reason I ask is that the distributor on my stock Jaguar distributor already uses a Ford Dura Spark magnetic pickup! I really don't want to use the EEC to control spark-timeing, just fueling. Therefore, I would like to keep the stock ignition system intact and simply send the appropriate signal to the computer. (maybe I'll do ign timing in the future, but for now, just one thing at a time.) I have an old aftermarket optical pick up that I can mount in my distributor in addition to the DuraSpark. It has a square wave output, but duty cycle is more like 10% (if that). Even better, the stock Jag ignition system uses uses a GM four pin ignition module in addition to the Ford DS! (in case you haven't figured it out, Lucas doesn't seem to actually make its own parts, just takes parts from Ford, GM, and Bosch and throws them together.) Anyway, It would be extremely easy (and cheap) to replace the four pin module with a seven pin module that has an output for the GM computer. For this reason, I considered the GM V6 MAF system, but concluded it wouldn't be worth the effort. Its not very adaptable. There are numerous After market MAF sensors for use with larger injectors with the Ford system, unlike the GM system. And the sequential Buick/ Olds system would require extensive fabrication in the form of two different crank sensors to make work. (although it is an other wise excellent system.) Does anybody know if the Ford EEC would understand the signal from the GM module? I have no idea what the signal looks like, just that it is good enough for the GM ecu. Does anybody know what the output signal from the GM seven pin ignition module looks like? To sum it up, I need to find some way to produce a signal that the EEC will understand. Thanks for any help, Tom Wright From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 11 22:14:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA17050; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 21:59:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melbourn.webrider.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA17044; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 17:59:11 -0400 Received: from dialup.webrider.net.au (port1-annex1.webrider.net.au [203.25.112.101]) by melbourn.webrider.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id IAA14309 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:09:36 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33C6AC9F.188@webrider.net.au> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 07:58:55 +1000 From: Alex Organization: WebRider Internet Access User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Diacom Interface! References: <199707102029.NAA07896@feta.direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi peter paul fenske wrote: > > Hi Fred and all > You will need the include files. > Either mail me direct or if people want i will > include em with the text.. If you could Peter, please send thos eto me also. Regards Alex Used to 'ave monster ported R100 small block eater. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 12 03:12:24 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA17589; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 03:03:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mars.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA17584; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 23:03:12 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (d13.t1.tecinfo.com [208.143.106.141]) by mars.tecinfo.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA02394 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:03:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 11 Jul 1997 22:03:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707120303.WAA02394@mars.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "George M. Dailey" Subject: RE:RE:fuel pump Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Well Vance, when I was TBI, the truck would stumble with low fuel in a 5g turn. Well, maybe it wasn't 5gs...you get the pitcher...a real tight turn. I never had this problem with TPEFI. My tank comes from a '75 chevy truck (13 gal), but it sits in the bed cross ways. I'm just damn creative! My tank used to be in the cab. If there were tabloid tv news shows in 1958, they would have had a ball with this truck. Remember the pyrotechniques glued to that poor old '75 chevy truck to "simulate sparks that could occure in unique crashes"? I think the FI type solenoid valve at JC witney will work perfectly. GMD At 07:17 PM 7/10/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hi George > > Thanks for idea on in tank sending units. Any ideas for cross over >valve that will stand pressure? Do you need to fab baffle for tanks? My pu >is a 74 with 16 gal tanks. > > >Vance > > > George M. Dailey gmd@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 12 05:28:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA17762; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:19:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.hutchtel.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA17757; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:19:02 -0400 Received: from hutch-129.hutchtel.net by ns1.hutchtel.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/02Oct95-1014AM) id AA16126; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:18:34 -0500 Message-Id: <9707120518.AA16126@ns1.hutchtel.net> From: "Joe Chiasson" To: Subject: Re: GM TBI questions - again Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:14:43 -0500 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > From: Greg Woods > To: 'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: GM TBI questions - again > Date: Friday, July 11, 1997 8:18 AM > > Hey all, > > as some of you may remember I recently completed installation of a 86 GM TBI system > into my 2.8l cherokee. I drove it around 1500 miles over the 4th of july weekend > without any problems! However, their are a few things puzzling me. > The car pops / backfires upon deceleration. Does this mean the air/fuel is too rich > at that time? How can I fix this?? Upon deceleration your injectors should pretty much be shut off. Either you have a tip leaker or your TPS is out of wack. (If you have a tip leaker you would have a problem starting the engine after sitting for a while, of which you did not mention) > Also, upon acceleration I've noticed that the car is missing. I didn't notice this > > before the swap. Is their any way the TBI system could be causing this?? You could be leaning out or have a wild spark adavnce causing detonation outside the cylinder. Perhaps you injectors are not staying open, perhaps your tps is out of wack, perhaps your fule pump cannot supply enough flow at higher loads. Check tps first!!!!! From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 12 05:33:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id FAA17779; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 05:27:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.hutchtel.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id BAA17774; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 01:27:26 -0400 Received: from hutch-129.hutchtel.net by ns1.hutchtel.net; (5.65/1.1.8.2/02Oct95-1014AM) id AA12456; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:26:58 -0500 Message-Id: <9707120526.AA12456@ns1.hutchtel.net> From: "Joe Chiasson" To: Subject: Re: injector flow rates Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 00:23:09 -0500 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > From: jon hanson > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: injector flow rates > Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 10:47 AM > > >Does anyone have details of flow rates (static and dynamic at specified > >pressure) for Bosch injectors? > >The part numbers I am particularly interested in are: > >0 280 150 203 > >0 280 150 209 > >0 280 150 211 > >0 280 150 219 > >0 280 150 227 > >0 280 150 702 > >0 280 150 703 > >0 280 150 725 > >0 280 150 727 > >0 280 150 734 > >0 280 150 744 > >A longer list would be great! > > > >Cheers, > >Richard > > > > > > I only have a reference for one of the above (every little bit helps) > > part no application flow rate (cc/min) @pressure (bar) > 0280 150 203 BMW 195 2.7 > > > the ref (Jeff Hartmanns book) doesn't specify if the flow rate is > static or dynamic > > regards Jon Hanson > > > Static, for the most part Volume/Time or Mass/Time at a specific pressure is a static, this is how much fuel can flow over a given period of time with the injector open. Dynamic for the most part is report as Volume/Pulse or Mass/Pulse, this is how much fuel will flow during a given pulse width. Excuse me if I got this wrong, it is late at night and I am tired. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 12 08:30:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA17970; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 08:09:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melbourn.webrider.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA17965; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 04:09:29 -0400 Received: from dialup.webrider.net.au (port1-annex1.webrider.net.au [203.25.112.101]) by melbourn.webrider.net.au (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA19531 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:19:52 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33C73B9F.1934@webrider.net.au> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:09:04 +1000 From: Alex Organization: WebRider Internet Access User X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Fiat woes References: <1.5.4.16.19970711155424.1a0fdf4e@pop3.afn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Fiat owner (My deepest sympathy to you and your family Sir) Have you looked at your fuel filter yet? regards alex Non-fiat owner From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 12 18:38:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA18810; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:28:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uia.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA18805; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 14:28:24 -0400 Received: from hh1123174.direcpc.com (157.22.213.87) by uia.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:28:05 -0700 From: "Robert Harris" To: , Subject: EGO and the Smog Pump Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 11:26:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1343415611-943303@uia.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dah, correct me if I am wrong ( aw go ahead and do it anyway) but doesn't the EGO sense total oxygen in the exhaust stream and get "happy" around stoic? If true, then when we shove extra oxygen via the smog pump into the exhaust, do we not have to shove unburned fuel from a too too rich mixture into the exhaust to make shore that the result is stoic at the sensor? Am I missing something here or is the total extra oxygen so low that it doesn't make much difference in the fuel consumed?? If the first ingredient ain't Habanero, then the rest don't matter. Robert Harris From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 12 22:35:20 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA19181; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:26:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA19176; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 18:26:29 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-52-0501.direct.ca [204.174.240.193]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id PAA22868 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 15:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707122226.PAA22868@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_861347903==_" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Diacom Interface! X-Attachments: C:\FUEL\ALDL\ALT_KEY.H; C:\FUEL\ALDL\ASCII.H; C:\FUEL\ALDL\COMDEFS.H; Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi --=====================_861347903==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here ya go GL:peter At 07:58 AM 7/12/97 +1000, you wrote: >peter paul fenske wrote: >> >> Hi Fred and all >> You will need the include files. >> Either mail me direct or if people want i will >> include em with the text.. > > >If you could Peter, please send thos eto me also. > >Regards > >Alex > >Used to 'ave monster ported R100 small block eater. > > --=====================_861347903==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ALT_KEY.H" /* ALT_KEY.H */ /* Defines PC extended key codes */ #define NUL_CHAR 3 #define ShTab 15 #define ALTQ 16 #define ALTW 17 #define ALTE 18 #define ALTR 19 #define ALTT 20 #define ALTY 21 #define ALTU 22 #define ALTI 23 #define ALTO 24 #define ALTP 25 #define ALTA 30 #define ALTS 31 #define ALTD 32 #define ALTF 33 #define ALTG 34 #define ALTH 35 #define ALTJ 36 #define ALTK 37 #define ALTL 38 #define ALTZ 44 #define ALTX 45 #define ALTC 46 #define ALTV 47 #define ALTB 48 #define ALTN 49 #define ALTM 50 #define F1 59 #define F2 60 #define F3 61 #define F4 62 #define F5 63 #define F6 64 #define F7 65 #define F8 66 #define F9 67 #define F10 68 #define Home 71 #define Up 72 #define PgUp 73 #define Left 75 #define Right 77 #define End 79 #define Down 80 #define PgDn 81 #define Ins 82 #define Del 83 --=====================_861347903==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ASCII.H" /* ASCII.H DRT v 1.00 930302 */ /* Standard definitions of ASCII control characters */ #define NUL 0x00 #define SOH 0x01 #define STX 0x02 #define ETX 0x03 #define EOT 0x04 #define ENQ 0x05 #define ACK 0x06 #define BEL 0x07 /* beep */ #define BS 0x08 /* backspace */ #define HT 0x09 /* tab */ #define LF 0x0A /* linefeed */ #define VT 0x0B #define FF 0x0C /* formfeed (^L) */ #define CR 0x0D /* carriage return */ #define SO 0x0E #define SI 0x0F #define DLE 0x10 #define DC1 0x11 /* ^Q */ #define DC2 0x12 #define DC3 0x13 /* ^S */ #define DC4 0x14 #define NAK 0x15 #define SYN 0x16 #define ETB 0x17 #define CAN 0x18 #define EM 0x19 #define SUB 0x1A #define ESC 0x1B #define FS 0x1C #define GS 0x1D #define RS 0x1E #define US 0x1F #define SP 0x20 /* space */ #define DEL 0x7F /* delete */ --=====================_861347903==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="COMDEFS.H" /* COMDEFS.H DRT v 2.10 950218 This include file contains most of the definitions needed for a PC serial communications program. It should be in the same directory as your source code. Place the following statement in your source file: #include "comdefs.h" // note "", not <>! */ /* Don't worry about what the following does, but be sure */ /* to keep it if you might use a different version of the */ /* Turbo or Borland C/C++ compiler... */ #ifdef __cplusplus /* defined for C++ 3.x */ #define __CPPARGS ... /* supports C++ 3 & BC */ #else #define __CPPARGS /* supports C++ 2.x */ #endif /* 8259 Priority Interrupt Controller registers and bits */ #define PIC_ICR 0x20 /* interrupt ctrl reg */ #define PIC_IMR 0x21 /* interrupt mask reg */ #define IRQ4M 0x10 /* COM1/3 interrupt mask */ #define IRQ3M 0x08 /* COM2/4 interrupt mask */ #define EOI 0x20 /* End of Interrupt bit */ #define INT_C 0x0C /* COM1/3 interrupt no. */ #define INT_B 0x0B /* COM2/4 interrupt no. */ /* Port-specific definitions */ #define COM1 0x3F8 /* COM port base address */ #define COM2 0x2F8 #define COM3 0x3E8 #define COM4 0x2E8 /* The following declarations refer to the offset from */ /* the base address of COMx for each of the 8250 registers */ #define THR 0 /* DLAB = 0 */ #define RBR 0 /* 0 */ #define DLL 0 /* 1 */ #define DLM 1 /* 1 */ #define IER 1 /* 0 */ #define IIR 2 #define LCR 3 #define MCR 4 #define LSR 5 #define MSR 6 /* Line control register bit definitions */ #define DLAB 0x80 /* 1 => baud divisor */ #define SBRK 0x40 /* 1 => set TX to space */ #define STKP 0x20 /* 1 => mark or space */ #define EPS 0x10 /* 1 => even or space */ #define PEN 0x08 /* 1 => enables parity */ #define STB 0x04 /* 1 => 1.5 or 2 stops */ #define WLS1 0x02 /* 00 = 5; 01 = 6 bits */ #define WLS2 0x01 /* 10 = 7; 11 = 8 bits */ /* Line status register bit definitions */ #define TSRE 0x40 /* TX shift reg empty */ #define THRE 0x20 /* TX holding reg ety */ #define BI 0x10 /* break detected */ #define FE 0x08 /* framing error */ #define PE 0x04 /* parity error */ #define OE 0x02 /* overrun error */ #define DR 0x01 /* RX data ready */ /* Modem control register bit definitions */ #define LOOP 0x10 /* 1 => local loopback */ #define OUT2 0x08 /* set to enable ints */ #define OUT1 0x04 /* user output 2 */ #define RTS 0x02 /* Request to Send o/p */ #define DTR 0x01 /* Data Terminal Ready */ /* Modem status register bit definitions */ #define RLSD 0x80 /* 1 => carrier detect */ #define RI 0x40 /* 1 => ring indicator */ #define DSR 0x20 /* 1 => Data Set Ready */ #define CTS 0x10 /* 1 => Clear to Send */ #define DRLSD 0x08 /* 1 => change in RLSD */ #define TERI 0x04 /* 1 => RI changed 1->0 */ #define DDSR 0x02 /* 1 => change in DSR */ #define DCTS 0x01 /* 1 => change in CTS */ /* Interrupt enable register bit definitions */ #define EDSSI 0x08 /* int on RI or RLSD >1 */ #define ELSI 0x04 /* break or data error */ #define ETBEI 0x02 /* int on THRE -> 1 */ #define ERBFI 0x01 /* int on DR -> 1 */ /* Interrupt identification register bit definitions */ #define ID1 0x04 /* ID1 ID0 Int. Source */ #define ID0 0x02 /* 1 1 brk or error */ /* 1 0 data ready */ /* 0 1 THR empty */ /* 0 0 RI/RLSD */ #define IPEN 0x01 /* interrupt pending */ --=====================_861347903==_-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 02:36:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA19601; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 02:27:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from usr04.primenet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA19596; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 22:27:28 -0400 Received: from primenet.com (root@mailhost02.primenet.com [206.165.5.53]) by usr04.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00455 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:27:27 -0700 (MST) Received: from stbhome (ip198.msp.primenet.com [206.165.50.198]) by primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA13728 for ; Sat, 12 Jul 1997 19:27:24 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <33C83D41.3CAF@primenet.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 21:28:17 -0500 From: Simon Bosworth X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Need Ford MAF sensor connector References: <199707111214.IAA01984@usarc-fw.army.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Collins, Jackie, MAJ wrote: > > I'd be very interested in learning more about your MGB project. Could > you give me some details? Thanks, > > Jack > Jack, the project is going slowly. I just picked up a MAF sensor and throttle body from a '92 Ford Escort 1.9L. This should be suitable engine capcity wise. I needed an new fuel tank so before I installed the new one I welded in a fitting to take the return fuel from the pressure regulator. It seemed like a good time to do it while the tank could be welded with impunity :). My next step will probably be do a distributorless ignition. After that I will make up a plenum and intake runners with injector mounts. I plan on using two injectors per intake runner, (only two of them on an MGB). Hopefully the EFI332 project will be a bit further advanced by then. I already have the EFI332 CPU and driver boards, but have not put them together yet. Are you planning an EFI project of your own ? Cheers, Simon ------------------------ Simon Bosworth simonb@primenet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 08:01:24 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA19955; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 07:52:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA19950; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 03:52:09 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id AAA03578 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:52:27 -0700 Message-ID: <33C88A08.AA60A38@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:55:52 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: EGO and the Smog Pump References: <1343415611-943303@uia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Robert Harris wrote: > > Dah, correct me if I am wrong ( aw go ahead and do it anyway) > but doesn't the EGO sense total oxygen in the exhaust stream > and get "happy" around stoic? If true, then when we shove > extra oxygen via the smog pump into the exhaust, do we not have > to shove unburned fuel from a too too rich mixture into the exhaust > to make shore that the result is stoic at the sensor? Am I missing > something here or is the total extra oxygen so low that it doesn't > make much difference in the fuel consumed?? There are a couple factors involving the smog pump. Firstly, by injecting air (has O2 in it) into the exhaust manifold right at the port, it enables any unburnt hydrocarbons to get burned, or reburned even. Besides cleaning up the exhaust, this post combustion also increases the temp going into the cat, which helps the reaction that takes place there. Secondly, at least in the old days, exhaust sniffers measured hydrocarbons in ppm, so if you add air, you are reducing the ppm, even though the actual total emissions would stay the same (except for the reburning effect). This was especially true in the few years of smog pumps with no cats. Because the O2 part of the injected air gets used up in the post combustion process, it shouldn't change the output. I'm not even sure if air pumps are still the rage or not though. Even the cleanest of piston engine combustions are still pretty dirty right at the exhaust port. Burning gasoline, even with the best of combustion chamber designs, and "perfect" injector and spark management, you still have to massage the exhaust to get it to meet the current spec. Don't all new US gasoline vehicals have cats? I am no expert on what's currently out there in production land. Are there any? Not sure about post combustion enhancers (smog pumps). Seems like most of the stuff I have worked on had 'em, but I try to stay away from that new stuff as much as I can. -j- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 13:07:42 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA20332; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 12:58:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fireball.smartnet.co.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA20327; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 08:58:01 -0400 Received: from nico (pta-dialin-15.smartnet.co.za [196.25.216.144]) by fireball.smartnet.co.za (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA19220 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 15:02:17 +0200 Message-Id: <199707131302.PAA19220@fireball.smartnet.co.za> From: "nico badenhorst" To: Subject: le jetronic fault codes? Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:46:44 +0300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Richard, i know the motronic ml4.1 system, as fitted to (in my case) the 2L gsi opel kadett ( 8v) i think its called a vauxhall astra ? in the uk ? ,anyway i know this system returns the error codes via the engine warning light on the dashboard if certain pins in the diagnostic plug are shorted out.. so my other car is a opel monza 1.6L gsi ( again i think its called a belmont in uk?) the efi seems to be very similar to the L jetronic sytem ? ,but it does seem to have a micro proccesor since it returns error codes in the same way as the ml4.1 system its been my understanding that this system on the 1.6l is the le or maybe l3 jetronic, have i maybe got the wrong name acociated with this aplication? any more info? thanx a lot , nico From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 17:33:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA21951; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:24:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from irvine.clubnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA21946; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 13:24:08 -0400 Received: from smeade.edm.net (irv1-ppp29.dial.clubnet.net [206.126.139.29]) by irvine.clubnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA18827 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:24:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707131724.KAA18827@irvine.clubnet.net> From: "Steve Meade" To: Subject: Re: EGO and the Smog Pump Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 10:24:03 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ---------- > From: Johnny > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: EGO and the Smog Pump > Date: Sunday, July 13, 1997 12:55 AM > > Robert Harris wrote: > > > > Dah, correct me if I am wrong ( aw go ahead and do it anyway) > > but doesn't the EGO sense total oxygen in the exhaust stream > > and get "happy" around stoic? If true, then when we shove > > extra oxygen via the smog pump into the exhaust, do we not have > > to shove unburned fuel from a too too rich mixture into the exhaust > > to make shore that the result is stoic at the sensor? Am I missing > > something here or is the total extra oxygen so low that it doesn't > > make much difference in the fuel consumed?? > > There are a couple factors involving the smog pump. Firstly, by > injecting air (has O2 in it) into the exhaust manifold right at the > port, it enables any unburnt hydrocarbons to get burned, or reburned > even. Besides cleaning up the exhaust, this post combustion also > increases the temp going into the cat, which helps the reaction that > takes place there. Secondly, at least in the old days, exhaust sniffers > measured hydrocarbons in ppm, so if you add air, you are reducing the > ppm, even though the actual total emissions would stay the same (except > for the reburning effect). This was especially true in the few years of They still do measure in PPM in the US judging by my last smog test. How much smog is actually reduced by the smog pump action? > smog pumps with no cats. Because the O2 part of the injected air gets > used up in the post combustion process, it shouldn't change the output. > I'm not even sure if air pumps are still the rage or not though. > I was looking through my Porsche parts catalog and there are smog pump listings for 911's up through '94, all 928's (V8), early 924's (2.0L VW I4), and 914 2.0 (2.0 VW w/Porsche heads). So, apparently smog pumps have been pretty popular at Porsche until recently. I don't know how adding O2 before the lambda sensor could preserve its output though. Does all of the O2 injected air get used up in post combustion burn? If it does, than wouldn't some of the leftover O2 from original (cylinder) combustion get used too and alter the O2 sensor reading? Or, does it work out that the reading is preserved since injected O2 won't get used up if there's not enough fuel which would still read a lean condition? > Even the cleanest of piston engine combustions are still pretty dirty > right at the exhaust port. Burning gasoline, even with the best of > combustion chamber designs, and "perfect" injector and spark management, > you still have to massage the exhaust to get it to meet the current > spec. Don't all new US gasoline vehicals have cats? I am no expert on I don't know if it's written in legislature anywhere but I don't believe there are any mass production passenger vehicles with gasoline internal combustion engines that don't have cats. Out here in CA you can fail a smog test "visually" meaning that your car can pass the sniffer test (OK emissions) and still fail because it has an "unauthorized part or modification." You may see a lot of parts which say they have "CARB" exemption numbers. That means their product is registered and allowed by the California Air Resources Board. Though, I know there are some engines out there that probably could pass without cats when new. One problem though is that in the US car manufacturers must warrant the emissions system for 5 years and lots of miles. If the car ever fails within five years the manufacturer must fix it. For that reason the cats are a good insurance policy for clean cars which are clean when new but after 30,000 miles of owner-neglect they might not be. An interesting side note, I bought an '86 Porsche 944 that was originally purchased in Missourri. It does not have the "California" smog package on it. I live in CA and had to have the smog done to register my car. Now this car is 11 years old with 74,000miles and doesn't have the CA smog stuff. Here's some test highlights at 2500RPM: Hydrocarbons: Allowable: 150PPM Tested: 003PPM CO%: Allowable: 1.20% Tested: 0.01% CO2 Tested: 15.4% O2 Tested: 0.0% > what's currently out there in production land. Are there any? Not sure > about post combustion enhancers (smog pumps). Seems like most of the > stuff I have worked on had 'em, but I try to stay away from that new > stuff as much as I can. > > -j- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Steve Meade smeade@deltanet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 20:49:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA22271; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:38:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA22266; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:38:00 -0400 Received: from preferrc ([207.116.100.37]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA26548 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:37:58 +0000 Message-ID: <33C93D56.2FF@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:40:54 -0400 From: "Christopher G. Moog" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-WorldNet (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: EGO and the Smog Pump References: <199707131724.KAA18827@irvine.clubnet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Steve Meade wrote: > > > > > Robert Harris wrote: > > > > > > Dah, correct me if I am wrong ( aw go ahead and do it anyway) > > > but doesn't the EGO sense total oxygen in the exhaust stream > > > and get "happy" around stoic? If true, then when we shove > > > extra oxygen via the smog pump into the exhaust, do we not have > > > to shove unburned fuel from a too too rich mixture into the exhaust > > > to make shore that the result is stoic at the sensor? Am I missing > > > something here or is the total extra oxygen so low that it doesn't > > > make much difference in the fuel consumed?? > > Many cars route the air pump outlet as follows: 1. To the exhaust port when first started. This allows unburnt HC to burn lowering emissions and heating the cat(s) and EGO sensor. The engine is operating in open loop and the EGO is not functioning. 2. To the cat once warmed up. The engine controls will keep the engine slightly rich producing CO. The CO scavenges the oxygen released when the three way cat reduces NOx to nitrogen and oxygen. This helps prevent the reverse reaction (oxygen and nitrogen recombining to form NOx compounds). The air pump outlet is sent to the cat (at the midpoint of the cat, where oxidation is occuring) this helps to burn any HCs and to oxidize any remaining CO to CO2 (and yes some of the nitrogen and oxygen are recombined to form NOx but the metals used don't encourage this reaction). Since the cat is down stream of the EGO the sensor is reading oxygen out of the engine. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 20:49:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA22263; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:35:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maila.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA22258; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 16:35:04 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA05126 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:32:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t2o44p28.telia.com [195.198.42.88]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA22057 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:07:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707132007.WAA22057@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: fuel-cut Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 22:11:04 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hello all, Iam working with an Bosch Motronic system for Volvo 940 Turbo. Is there any one out there ho knows the address for the fuel-cut ? (Boxnr 0 280 000 962,954,937,939,984) (I have talked to Superchip but they dont know how to do it) Please help me iam desperate! Stefan From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 21:41:16 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA22363; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:29:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from irvine.clubnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA22358; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:29:24 -0400 Received: from smeade.edm.net (irv1-ppp29.dial.clubnet.net [206.126.139.29]) by irvine.clubnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21241 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707132129.OAA21241@irvine.clubnet.net> From: "Steve Meade" To: Subject: Re: fuel-cut Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:29:20 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ---------- > From: Stefan Olsson > To: DIY_EFI > Subject: fuel-cut > Date: Sunday, July 13, 1997 1:11 PM > > Hello all, > > > Iam working with an Bosch Motronic system for Volvo 940 Turbo. > Is there any one out there ho knows the address for the fuel-cut ? > (Boxnr 0 280 000 962,954,937,939,984) > (I have talked to Superchip but they dont know how to do it) > I don't know the location for the fuel cutoff, but there's another problem involved. Depending on the version of Motronic (1.0, 1.1, 1.3, etc) there is at least one checksum and possibly more. My understanding is that the chips are worthless if you don't change the checksum when you change something inside of it. > Please help me iam desperate! > The only person who can really help you is Jim Conforti. But, he's really busy. > Stefan =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Steve Meade smeade@deltanet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 13 23:38:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA22608; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 23:31:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailc.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA22603; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 19:31:31 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by mailc.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA23526 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:31:30 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t2o44p44.telia.com [195.198.42.104]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA23105 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:31:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707132331.BAA23105@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: Re:Source for LH-Jetronic info? Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 01:34:33 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Michael I have worked a lot with this engines (B230ET,FT) and i think its an fantastic engine ! You can tune it to over 350Hp without any bigger modifications (exept for the early mod there You must change the pushrods) If You whant more info send me the number on Your ECU and Your E-mail addr Best regards Stefan Sweden From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 00:45:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA22685; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:38:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from u1.farm.idt.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA22680; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:38:32 -0400 Received: from hpvl4 (ppp-3.ts-3.hp.idt.net [169.132.73.51]) by u1.farm.idt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA18879 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33C9765E.46F8@idt.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:44:14 -0400 From: Bernard Ward X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: fuel-cut References: <199707132007.WAA22057@d1o44.telia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Stefan Olsson wrote: > > Hello all, > > Iam working with an Bosch Motronic system for Volvo 940 Turbo. > Is there any one out there ho knows the address for the fuel-cut ? > (Boxnr 0 280 000 962,954,937,939,984) > (I have talked to Superchip but they dont know how to do it) > > Please help me iam desperate! > > Stefan You might want to talk to Volvo Tuner ipd@www.ipdusa.com, as they are very knowledgeable on all things "Volvo" Barney From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 12:40:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA23695; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:35:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA23690; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:35:28 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15804; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:34:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 07:34:36 -0500 Message-Id: <9707141234.AA15804@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Edward C. Hernandez" From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: linear EFI Cc: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Almost a year ago, tom cloud wrote: >> >> >TBI will lose the whole rpm range to a good port injected intake. >> >Ergo... >> > >> >-- >> >Ed Hernandez >> >> okay, Ed. You said your specialty was manifolds. Let me pick your >> brain, if that's okay. Currently have the Holley 650 cfm TBI on >> Edelbrock Performer manifold on 351W. Plan to get Motorsport 351W >> (the cast-iron head dude with 346 hp rated). Do you think I'd lose >> to put a 351W HO TPI system from a junk yard on it instead? Would >> then play with either building a controller, modifying a Ford unit >> or maybe (as pondered in previous post) a GM controller. >> >> I.E.: Do you think I'll lose by dumping the Performer and going to the >> Ford stock TPI manifold? > >You may remember that the reason I dropped myself of the list was >because I couldn't read all the mail. I still have 800 messages to go, >and I know this is a late answer(maybe too late), but you will lose by >dumpering the Performer. My opinion, not a fact. 799 to go... > > >Ed Hernandez >Ford AVT Motorsport Technology >ehernan3@ed8719.pto.ford.com the "Engine Analyzer" software I bought (after I asked you that above) agrees with you. The GT-40 EFI manifold is approximately the same in performance as the Performer, but not the stock efi manifold (again, according to the software). Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 13:19:34 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA23768; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:16:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA23763; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:16:42 -0400 Received: from [158.152.196.243] ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022607; 14 Jul 97 13:56 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id NAA25543 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:32:47 +0100 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:32:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199707141232.NAA25543@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: le jetronic fault codes? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 14:46 13/07/97 +0300, you wrote: >Hi Richard, > >i know the motronic ml4.1 system, as fitted to (in my case) the 2L gsi opel >kadett ( 8v) >i think its called a vauxhall astra ? in the uk ? ,anyway i know this >system returns the >error codes via the engine warning light on the dashboard if certain pins >in the diagnostic >plug are shorted out.. > >so my other car is a opel monza 1.6L gsi ( again i think its called a >belmont in uk?) >the efi seems to be very similar to the L jetronic sytem ? ,but it does >seem to have >a micro proccesor since it returns error codes in the same way as the ml4.1 >system >its been my understanding that this system on the 1.6l is the le or maybe >l3 jetronic, >have i maybe got the wrong name acociated with this aplication? >any more info? > >thanx a lot , >nico > > Nico, I still believe my original stance that neither LE or L3 offer error codes of any form; although there is a small possibility (I am not 100% sure in all honesty) that L3 may offer limited 'blink code' information as you are familiar with on ML4.1, I am trying to positively answer this question for my own interest. Incidentally, 4.1 offers serial datastream error code information from the diagnostic connector as well as 'blink code'. As far as the 1.6 gsi is concerned, I think that all 1.6 engines are fitted with Multec management (as opposed to Motronic), this is certainly the case in Europe, Multec supports both blink code and serial datastream error codes. What age is the 1.6? Richard. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 13:53:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA23903; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:48:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gateway.symtx.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA23898; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:48:45 -0400 Received: from locutus.symtx.com by gateway.symtx.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20300; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:45:52 -0500 Received: by locutus.symtx.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC9032.BBF8F1B0@locutus.symtx.com>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:48:43 -0500 Message-Id: <01BC9032.BBF8F1B0@locutus.symtx.com> From: Greg Woods To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: GM TBI questions - again Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:48:42 -0500 Encoding: 35 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi original post: > > Hey all, > > > > as some of you may remember I recently completed installation of a 86 GM TBI system > > into my 2.8l cherokee. I drove it around 1500 miles over the 4th of july weekend > > without any problems! However, their are a few things puzzling me. > > The car pops / backfires upon deceleration. Does this mean the air/fuel is too rich > > at that time? How can I fix this?? update: Thanks to all who responded with ideas. Basically everyone suggested that I start at the TPS sensor. This brings me to another clue that I forgot to mention (oops, sorry about that!:)) When I place the computer in diagnostics mode, my computer strobs out an error 22. Using the haynes manual GM error code translation, it tells me this is a "Throttle position sensor voltage low". So I get my DMM out and look at the voltage on the TPS with the ignition on (engine not started). It reads around 390 mV. The manual specifies < 1 volt is OK. But I decide to rotate the TPS to raise the voltage reading anyway. I do this and now the voltage is around 510mV, but perfomance does not improve. I must not be interpreting this error code correctly. Can someone tell me what it means? Should I just replace the TPS?? When I rebuilt the throttle body, I put an ohm meter across the POT and looked at the resistance as I swung the wiper. It went from around 0 to ~2.5K smoothly and appeared perfectly normal to me. Thats why I don't understand how it could be bad? TIA! BTW, what is a "tip" or a "tip leaker"?? Greg Woods gwoods@symtx.com austin, tx 86 cherokee 2.8l TBI From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 14:13:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA24220; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:11:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from synunix.netsynergy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA24215; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:11:05 -0400 From: mcosta@netsynergy.com Received: from smtplink2.netsynergy.com (smtplink2.netsynergy.com [205.246.18.27]) by synunix.netsynergy.com (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id OAA29216 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:04:42 GMT Received: from cc:Mail by smtplink2.netsynergy.com id AA868899956; Mon, 14 Jul 97 10:04:47 EST Date: Mon, 14 Jul 97 10:04:47 EST Encoding: 7 Text Message-Id: <9706148688.AA868899956@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Electromotive question Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi The electromotive manual says that the tec-II uses some sort of other processor besides an hc-11 (I think) to calculate fuel and spark information, relieving the burden from the microcontroller. My question is does any one know who makes this secondary processor and what its called. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 16:04:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA24497; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:01:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA24492; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:01:21 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-02b13.direct.ca [204.174.248.77]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id JAA16034 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 09:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707141601.JAA16034@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: Electromotive question Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Well the easiest way to interface to a HC11 is to use another HC11 via the SPI buss. Of course a 68705 could be used as well as a custom ASIC.. Have fun:peter At 10:04 AM 7/14/97 EST, you wrote: > The electromotive manual says that the tec-II uses some sort of other > processor besides an hc-11 (I think) to calculate fuel and spark > information, relieving the burden from the microcontroller. My > question is does any one know who makes this secondary processor and > what its called. > > > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 16:29:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA24539; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:26:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mpdgw2.symbios.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA24534; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:26:09 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by mpdgw2.symbios.com (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) id KAA00653 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:26:08 -0600 Received: from aztec.co.symbios.com(153.72.199.214) by mpdgw2.symbios.com via smap (V1.3) id sma000501; Mon Jul 14 10:25:36 1997 Received: from mpdmsgtw.co.symbios.com (cosmpdelp.co.symbios.com [153.72.104.222]) by Symbios.COM (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA03941 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:25:34 -0600 Received: by mpdmsgtw.co.symbios.com with Microsoft Mail id <33CA52F7@mpdmsgtw.co.symbios.com>; Mon, 14 Jul 97 10:25:27 MDT From: "Atkinson, David" To: "'EFI'" Subject: FW: Electromotive question Date: Fri, 11 Jul 97 18:10:00 MDT Message-ID: <33CA52F7@mpdmsgtw.co.symbios.com> Encoding: 30 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Yup. It's called a HREIC ("hirec") chip - it's an ASIC developed by Electromotive (or so they claim...) that determines engine speed, position and acceleration in hardware. It stands for High Resolution Electronic Ignition Controller. I think you'd have a real tough time getting your hands on one... but if you were to design your own... Not sure about the status of any related patents - it might be worthwhile to investigate since the use of a device like this makes programming the ECU so much easier, and you can probably use a slower, less capable microcontroller (less expensive) with this approach. My $.02 ---------- From: mcosta Sent: Monday, July 14, 1997 10:04 AM To: diy_efi Subject: Electromotive question The electromotive manual says that the tec-II uses some sort of other processor besides an hc-11 (I think) to calculate fuel and spark information, relieving the burden from the microcontroller. My question is does any one know who makes this secondary processor and what its called. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 17:38:46 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA25085; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:33:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from monsoon.dial.pipex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA25080; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:33:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199707141733.NAA25080@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: (qmail 12274 invoked from network); 14 Jul 1997 17:21:50 -0000 Received: from aj073.du.pipex.com (HELO qf09.dial.pipex.com) (193.130.249.73) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 14 Jul 1997 17:21:50 -0000 From: "Jonathan Robins" To: Subject: Motronic 4.3 Pin outs Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:21:15 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi all I wonder if any of you could possibly help me. As well as my EFI project I have now become involved in a project to change the engine in a Volvo 850 from a 2.5L 20V to a T5 turbo engine. The ECU on the 2.5L engine is an LH3.2 Jetronic system which has two ECU modules, one to control fuel and the other for ignition. However, the new engine uses the Motronic 4.3 ECU which consists of just one module that controls everything. My question is, Where can I get the pin outs for both ECU systems so that I can wire the Motronic ECU to the car which did have the Jetronic system in it? Any advice or thoughts would be welcomed! Thanks Jonathan Robins From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 17:58:57 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA25306; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:53:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA25301; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:53:38 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA28314; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:52:48 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 12:52:48 -0500 Message-Id: <9707141752.AA28314@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi, EEC-EFI List From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: EEC-iv connectors Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Can anybody help me find a source of Ford EEC-iv connectors to purchase? >European spec. 3-row 60 pin format - I'm not sure if US components would be >the same? I need to source both halves, ECU and engine harness and >terminals. Part numbers and/or contact address would be much appreciated. >Thanks >Richard I posted this to the eec-iv list and got: Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:16:32 -0400 To: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu From: Greg Lowe Subject: 60 pin EEC connector Tom I have these connectors, I use them for the Informer. Don't know if there is a difference in the US vs European though. Wouldn't think so. 3 row, split in half, with a bolt in the center, 60 pin. Regards, Greg Lowe Informer: http://www.intercall.com/~gendev/informer Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 18:58:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA25443; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:54:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dns.box.bit-net.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA25438; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:54:15 -0400 Received: from localhost by dns.box.bit-net.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/30Jul96-0143PM) id AA29879; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:54:13 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:54:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Jody Shapiro To: diy_efi Subject: Re: conversion question + In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Frank F Parker wrote: > Corky Bell's new book published by Robert Bently called "Maximum Boost" > is all about turbos and their theory, installation and tuning. It is Do you have an ISBN? I sent an email to sales@rb.com but they must to be too busy to respond.. :/ Thanks, -Jody -- 97 Blue Vortech Z28 http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 19:14:46 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA25501; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:10:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pomerol.gdb.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA25496; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:10:12 -0400 Received: from coral (coral.gdb.ORG [192.239.76.219]) by pomerol.gdb.org (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29920 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:09:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33CA79A7.52495503@gdb.org> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:10:31 -0400 From: Charles Beatty Organization: Genome Database X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: unsubscribing X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi We had a user leave who was subscribed to this group. I can "become" him for purposes of unsubscribing. What address and syntax do I need to use? Thanks. -- Charles Beatty cbeatty@gdb.org Manager of Systems Administration 410-614-3008 Voice Genome Database 410-614-0434 FAX Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine gdbwww.gdb.org From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 19:39:15 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA25567; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:36:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from endeavor.flash.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA25562; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:36:48 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (pm15-207.flash.net [209.30.9.207]) by endeavor.flash.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03959 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:31:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33CA9C10.76B7@flash.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 14:37:20 -0700 From: Mark Fabiny Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-FlashNet (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: conversion question + References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Jody Shapiro wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Frank F Parker wrote: > > > Corky Bell's new book published by Robert Bently called "Maximum Boost" > > is all about turbos and their theory, installation and tuning. It is > > Do you have an ISBN? > > I sent an email to sales@rb.com but they must to be too busy to respond.. > :/ > > Thanks, > -Jody Amazon.com shows the book for $34.95, shipping in 2 to 3 days. See them at http://www.amazon.com. You can do a search by title and author to get the info on the book. Mark From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 20:26:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA25685; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:17:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wolfenet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA25680; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:17:09 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA08090 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:17:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id NAA19421 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:17:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707142017.NAA19421@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: conversion question + To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 13:17:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <33CA9C10.76B7@flash.net> from "Mark Fabiny" at Jul 14, 97 02:37:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Jody Shapiro wrote: > > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Frank F Parker wrote: > > > > > Corky Bell's new book published by Robert Bently called "Maximum Boost" > > > is all about turbos and their theory, installation and tuning. It is > > > > Do you have an ISBN? > > > > I sent an email to sales@rb.com but they must to be too busy to respond.. > > :/ > > > > Thanks, > > -Jody > Amazon.com shows the book for $34.95, shipping in 2 to 3 days. See them > at http://www.amazon.com. You can do a search by title and author to > get the info on the book. >From www.barnesandnoble.com: Pub. Price: $34.95 B&N Price: $27.96 You Save: $6.99 (20%) ISBN#: 0837601606 Format: Paperback Date Published: April 1997 Orin. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 20:58:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA25766; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:43:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dns.box.bit-net.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA25761; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:43:25 -0400 Received: from localhost by dns.box.bit-net.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/30Jul96-0143PM) id AA11092; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:43:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:43:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Jody Shapiro To: diy_efi Subject: "Maximum Boost" Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi by Corky Bell ISBN is 0837601606 List price is $34.95 and that's the cost through Robert Bentley (the publisher) and Amazon. I'll have to see what Barnes & Noble wants for it. Thanks, -Jody -- 97 Blue Vortech Z28 http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 14 21:00:10 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA25819; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:58:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from email.nist.gov by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA25814; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:58:25 -0400 Received: from sin (sin.nist.gov [129.6.180.60]) by email.nist.gov (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA14380; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:57:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.16.19970714165824.4aa7f3a6@mailserver.nist.gov> X-Sender: jwallace@mailserver.nist.gov X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (16) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:58:26 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Jay Wallace Subject: Re: conversion question + Cc: Jody Shapiro Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 02:54 PM 7/14/97 -0400, you wrote: >On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Frank F Parker wrote: > >> Corky Bell's new book published by Robert Bently called "Maximum Boost" >> is all about turbos and their theory, installation and tuning. It is > >Do you have an ISBN? > Jody, the ISBN for Bell's book Maximum Boost is 0837601606. Classic Motorbooks says that they have them in stock for $34.95 +$5. s/h. They do not appear to have a web page but their phone number is 800.826.6600. Jay From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 00:26:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA26571; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 00:21:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mars.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA26566; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:21:01 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (d57.t1.tecinfo.com [208.143.106.187]) by mars.tecinfo.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA24628 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:20:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 19:20:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707150020.TAA24628@mars.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "George M. Dailey" Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Gentlemen, it's official. MY TPI has actually lost about 1mpg in the city. Highway milage aint worth bragging about either. I simply must have the best fuel economy possible with the '89 GM 5.7L TPI system. What does the TPI engine & ECM like as far as final drive ratio?? I'm at a loss as to why my TPI system is not performing at it's best. Any ideas? Do I need to drop to a lower gear ratio? Below is a engine speed vs vehicle speed data set. This is calculated data, but it aggrees with my instruments. 2.73:1 rear end ratio 27.125" dia tires. Thanks for the data Chief! rpm 1st 3.06 2nd 1.62 3rd 1.0 4th 0.70 500 4.829933 9.123207 14.7796 21.11371 600 5.79592 10.94785 17.73551 25.33645 700 6.761906 12.77249 20.69143 29.55919 800 7.727893 14.59713 23.64735 33.78193 900 8.69388 16.42177 26.60327 38.00467 1000 9.659866 18.24641 29.55919 42.22742 1100 10.62585 20.07106 32.51511 46.45016 1200 11.59184 21.8957 35.47103 50.6729 1300 12.55783 23.72034 38.42695 54.89564 1400 13.52381 25.54498 41.38287 59.11838 1500 14.4898 27.36962 44.33879 63.34112 (I show 65mph at 1500rpm) 1600 15.45579 29.19426 47.29471 67.56386 1700 16.42177 31.0189 50.25062 71.78661 1800 17.38776 32.84355 53.20654 76.00935 1900 18.35375 34.66819 56.16246 80.23209 2000 19.31973 36.49283 59.11838 84.45483 2100 20.28572 38.31747 62.0743 88.67757 2200 21.25171 40.14211 65.03022 92.90031 2300 22.21769 41.96675 67.98614 97.12306 2400 23.18368 43.79139 70.94206 101.3458 Help' GMD At 02:59 PM 6/13/97 -0400, I wrote: >>...I've wrote >>it off to my 2.73:1 gear ratio and 27-1/8" diameter P255 60-15's. Does >>anyone have the gear ratios for the 700R4 tranny? It seems like my gas >>milage in the city has dropped from 13 -14 to 12-13. Dope! >> >>GMD > >Ratios are 3.06, 1.62, 1.00, 0.70. > >Ed Hilker aka "Chief" >84'SS - 700R4 > > > George M. Dailey gmd@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 01:10:17 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA26632; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:04:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA26627; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:04:31 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22134; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:03:42 -0500 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:03:42 -0500 Message-Id: <9707150103.AA22134@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Gentlemen, it's official. MY TPI has actually lost about 1mpg in the city. [ snip ] did the mpg drop occur suddenly or gradually ?? remember that a worn engine is less efficient and will get less mpg as it ages Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 01:41:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA26723; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:36:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from edam.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA26718; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:36:42 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-03a12.direct.ca [204.174.248.108]) by edam.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id SAA13973 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:36:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707150136.SAA13973@edam.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi HI George Well the TPI in my truck gives me about 20 MPG irregardless of what I do.. Definitely better than CARB. Although at 90 MPH Am using 3.08 in truck with 700R4.. I guess you could try bumping the timing. I am running 14 initial and can still use reg. Seldom does knock show up on the scanner This timing is worth 2MPG over stock.. You could also play with the timing map. Also lock up the TCC earlier but this gets to be a pain.. Mind you I forget if you are using a TPI ecm. The TBI does strange things.. and will run a wee bit rich on a TPI although prob ok. Cya:peter At 07:20 PM 7/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >Gentlemen, it's official. MY TPI has actually lost about 1mpg in the city. >Highway milage aint worth bragging about either. I simply must have the best >fuel economy possible with the '89 GM 5.7L TPI system. What does the TPI >engine & ECM like as far as final drive ratio?? I'm at a loss as to why my >TPI system is not performing at it's best. Any ideas? Do I need to drop to a >lower gear ratio? Below is a engine speed vs vehicle speed data set. This is >calculated data, but it aggrees with my instruments. 2.73:1 rear end ratio >27.125" dia tires. Thanks for the data Chief! > >rpm 1st 3.06 2nd 1.62 3rd 1.0 4th 0.70 >500 4.829933 9.123207 14.7796 21.11371 >600 5.79592 10.94785 17.73551 25.33645 >700 6.761906 12.77249 20.69143 29.55919 >800 7.727893 14.59713 23.64735 33.78193 >900 8.69388 16.42177 26.60327 38.00467 >1000 9.659866 18.24641 29.55919 42.22742 >1100 10.62585 20.07106 32.51511 46.45016 >1200 11.59184 21.8957 35.47103 50.6729 >1300 12.55783 23.72034 38.42695 54.89564 >1400 13.52381 25.54498 41.38287 59.11838 >1500 14.4898 27.36962 44.33879 63.34112 (I show 65mph at 1500rpm) >1600 15.45579 29.19426 47.29471 67.56386 >1700 16.42177 31.0189 50.25062 71.78661 >1800 17.38776 32.84355 53.20654 76.00935 >1900 18.35375 34.66819 56.16246 80.23209 >2000 19.31973 36.49283 59.11838 84.45483 >2100 20.28572 38.31747 62.0743 88.67757 >2200 21.25171 40.14211 65.03022 92.90031 >2300 22.21769 41.96675 67.98614 97.12306 >2400 23.18368 43.79139 70.94206 101.3458 > >Help' >GMD > >At 02:59 PM 6/13/97 -0400, I wrote: >>>...I've wrote >>>it off to my 2.73:1 gear ratio and 27-1/8" diameter P255 60-15's. Does >>>anyone have the gear ratios for the 700R4 tranny? It seems like my gas >>>milage in the city has dropped from 13 -14 to 12-13. Dope! >>> >>>GMD >> >>Ratios are 3.06, 1.62, 1.00, 0.70. >> >>Ed Hilker aka "Chief" >>84'SS - 700R4 >> >> >> >George M. Dailey >gmd@tecinfo.com > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 01:54:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA26755; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 01:52:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtshasta.snowcrest.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA26750; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:52:20 -0400 Received: from javer96 (ppp97.snowcrest.net [207.201.18.129]) by mtshasta.snowcrest.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA23673 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970714184915.006b3074@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: javer96@snowcrest.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 18:49:15 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Jennifer Rose Subject: Mileage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi George Ya describing are wonderful new fuel out here in CA. Lost about 10% in mileage - 11 mpg to 10 mpg in my pu Vance From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 03:19:17 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA27040; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 03:14:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA27032; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:14:17 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA12804 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:15:24 -0700 Message-ID: <33CAEB81.FA1AE9A@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:16:17 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: unsubscribing References: <33CA79A7.52495503@gdb.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Charles Beatty wrote: > > We had a user leave who was subscribed to this group. I can "become" him > for purposes of unsubscribing. What address and syntax do I need to use? > > Thanks. > > -- > Charles Beatty cbeatty@gdb.org > Manager of Systems Administration 410-614-3008 Voice > Genome Database 410-614-0434 FAX > Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine gdbwww.gdb.org majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu unsubscribe diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 03:52:31 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA27181; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 03:47:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA27176; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 23:47:13 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA05268 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id UAA15981; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:46:48 -0700 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 20:46:48 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: conversion question + In-Reply-To: <199707142017.NAA19421@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 1997, Frank F Parker wrote: > > > > > > > Corky Bell's new book published by Robert Bently called "Maximum Boost" > > > > is all about turbos and their theory, installation and tuning. It is > > > Hi I'm very turbo ignorant and need a good starter book. Would anybody care to recommend this one or any other book as a good place to start? I need something in the same format as the Jeff Hartman book on EFI. thanks in advance jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 12:57:20 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA28758; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:51:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from turtle.mcc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA28753; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 08:51:21 -0400 From: bishop@mcc.com Received: from niobium.mcc.com.mcc (niobium.mcc.com [128.62.30.70]) by turtle.mcc.com (8.6.10/mcc.8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA11635 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:51:20 -0500 Received: from [128.62.61.199] by niobium.mcc.com.mcc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA10493; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:51:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:51:19 -0500 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi Subject: Re: MAF sensors Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Do you still have any of the MAF sensors for sale. I am interested in two. Please email me back if these are avaliable. Thanks, ThomB I'm cleaning out my garage and have (3) MAF sensors for sale. These are GM >pieces for V-8 motors (part #25007899) and all are new (never in service). >Make offer > > > Bill From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 12:59:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA28778; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:59:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ni1.ni.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA28773; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 08:59:06 -0400 Received: from weasel_in_a_box (turbo.ni.net [199.107.92.159]) by ni1.ni.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA20801 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:58:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19970715053537.009937b0@pop.ni.net> X-Sender: jdeifik@pop.ni.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 05:35:37 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Jeff Deifik Subject: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I have a 1987 shelby csx (dodge 2.2 intercooled turbo). I have the shelby stage II computer, and a rebuilt engine with mostly turbo II parts inside, with a super-60 cam, turbo, 20% bigger than stock injectors, and a super-60-like head. About 10k miles on engine. While getting a smog check everything was ok at idle, but at 2000 rpm there was an intermittent rich condition. After some digging around, some blow-by was found. A leak-down test was performed, as well as a compression check. The leakdown was 5% in all cylinders, except #3 was 14-15 percent. The compression test was 135, 125, 125, 150 dry, and 145, 150, 150, 155 wet. There was also some valvetrain noise. When the valve cover was removed, there was visible wear on some of the cam lobes. I have heard that no super-60 cam seems to survive beyond 10k miles, due to the aggressive profile, or a bad heat treatment. The engine was torn down, and the #3 cylinder wall was found to be worn smooth, while all the other walls looked fine. I think that the intermittent rich condition may have been confined to the #3 cylinder, which may have washed the oil from the cylinder wall, causing the wear, and the bad leakdown. I was wondering what might cause this intermittent rich condition. The injectors had less than 20k miles on them. The o2 sensor had less than 20k miles on it. I run unleaded gas. The engine showed no fault codes. I had a new cap & rotor and ignition wires & sparkplugs. I am not sure which cam lobes were getting flattened. Could a flattened cam lobe cause the intermittent rich condition? It looked like the top of the lobes had been flattened, which I would guess would be bad for high rpm use, but should be pretty harmless otherwise. I don't recall which lobes were flattened, but roughly 4 of the lobes were showing signs of wear. I can find out. I will be getting 13% bigger than stock injectors, which I have heard are fine for 15 lbs of boost, and which should improve the part throttle fuel injection metering. I will get a milder cam, and a high volumn oil pump. I wish to figure out what was causing the intermittent rich condition, so I don't have to rebuild the motor again at 10k miles. I will probably also build a o2 led monitor to check for the rich condition. Jeff turbo Deifik jdeifik@weasel.com turbo@weasel.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 14:21:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA28981; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:15:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mserv.rug.ac.be by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA28975; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:13:55 -0400 Received: from allserv.rug.ac.be by mserv.rug.ac.be with SMTP id AA28370 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for ); Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:12:49 +0200 Received: from erosseel by allserv.rug.ac.be (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA23880; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:12:48 +0200 Message-Id: <199707151412.QAA23880@allserv.rug.ac.be> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Evert Rosseel" Organization: University Gent To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:58:39 +1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condi Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42a) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > I think that the intermittent rich condition may have been confined to the > #3 cylinder, which may have washed the oil from the cylinder wall, causing > the wear, and the bad leakdown. > > I am not sure which cam lobes were getting flattened. > Could a flattened cam lobe cause the intermittent rich condition? > It looked like the top of the lobes had been flattened, which I would guess > would be bad for high rpm use, but should be pretty harmless otherwise. > I don't recall which lobes were flattened, but roughly 4 of the lobes > were showing signs of wear. I can find out. If one of the inlet cams has a flattened profile, the corresponding cylinder will run rich (less air admitted into this cylinder) and the others will run lean (overal stoichiometric condition for all cylinders together). If excessive the engine will run on 3 cylinders (continuous misfire on one cylinder). I have personally seen an engine with a cam lobe completely gone, which did still run on 3 of the 4 cylinders. The intermittent effect may be caused by the lambda control system. Evert **************************************************************** * Dr. ir. Evert Rosseel * * Laboratory for Machines * * Department of Mechanical and Thermal Engineering * * University Gent * * Sint-Pietersnieuwstraat 41, 9000 Gent, Belgium * * Tel : ++32 9 264.33.06 * * Fax : ++32 9 264.35.86 * * Email : Evert.Rosseel@rug.ac.be * * WWW : http://allserv.rug.ac.be/~erosseel/motoren.htm * **************************************************************** From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 14:50:43 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA29090; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:43:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA29085; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:43:53 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr12-dialup28.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01IL9H12RLIE96Z618@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:42:22 EDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 09:36:17 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Mileage In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.19970714184915.006b3074@snowcrest.net> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970715093617.00904300@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Ya describing are wonderful new fuel out here in CA. Lost about 10% in >mileage - 11 mpg to 10 mpg in my pu While all of you are complaining about gas mileage, feel free to enjoy the HIGH mileage you are all getting. 1989 Chevy 454 powered Hummer. 8 MPG highway. 5-6 in the woods. Ugh. Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 16:02:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA29306; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:58:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA29301; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:58:07 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0701424; 15 Jul 97 15:55 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id PAA24747 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:50:07 +0100 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:50:07 +0100 Message-Id: <199707151450.PAA24747@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: le jetronic fault codes? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 14:46 13/07/97 +0300, you wrote: >Hi Richard, > >i know the motronic ml4.1 system, as fitted to (in my case) the 2L gsi opel >kadett ( 8v) >i think its called a vauxhall astra ? in the uk ? ,anyway i know this >system returns the >error codes via the engine warning light on the dashboard if certain pins >in the diagnostic >plug are shorted out.. > >so my other car is a opel monza 1.6L gsi ( again i think its called a >belmont in uk?) >the efi seems to be very similar to the L jetronic sytem ? ,but it does >seem to have >a micro proccesor since it returns error codes in the same way as the ml4.1 >system >its been my understanding that this system on the 1.6l is the le or maybe >l3 jetronic, >have i maybe got the wrong name acociated with this aplication? >any more info? > >thanx a lot , >nico > > Nico, Sorry! I may have misled you over the 1.6L sytem; early 1.6 GSi Corsa/GTE Nova (uk) ie. 1988-1991 approx. used L3 Jetronic. L3 is easy to recognise - ECU is mounted integrally with the airflow meter and has a 15 way 2-row connector. It is the later 1.6 engines which use Multec. Hope this is clearer Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 16:26:17 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA29407; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:22:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mercury.online.uleth.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA29402; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:22:06 -0400 Received: from furgason2.physics.uleth.ca ([142.66.41.2]) by mercury.online.uleth.ca (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA12815 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:20:31 -0600 Message-ID: <33CBA374.3C6AF5D1@uleth.ca> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 10:21:08 -0600 From: furgason@uleth.ca (Daniel Furgason) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199707150136.SAA13973@edam.direct.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is one time when I closed the plug gap down to around .035". If I run the plugs around .100"-.125" I get significantly better milege. I have been as high as 24 mpg. Around town I generally get 14 -15 mpg. Timing doesn't seem to be too critical for mileage, however, I usually run about 4 deg BTC static just for the response. Dan Furgason From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 17:27:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA29520; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:14:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA29512; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:14:39 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id MAA03480 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:14:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from pat-nj1-19.ix.netcom.com(204.31.242.51) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma003465; Tue Jul 15 12:14:07 1997 Message-ID: <33CBB0EB.33DB@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 13:18:35 -0400 From: Dan Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios References: <199707150136.SAA13973@edam.direct.ca> <33CBA374.3C6AF5D1@uleth.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi 21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban 5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. Dan L > Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The > only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is > one time when I closed the plug gap down to around .035". If I run the > plugs around .100"-.125" I get significantly better milege. I have been > as high as 24 mpg. Around town I generally get 14 -15 mpg. Timing > doesn't seem to be too critical for mileage, however, I usually run > about 4 deg BTC static just for the response. > > Dan Furgason From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 18:25:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA29823; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:13:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dns.box.bit-net.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA29818; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:13:45 -0400 Received: from localhost by dns.box.bit-net.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/30Jul96-0143PM) id AA21365; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:13:45 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:13:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Jody Shapiro To: diy_efi Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios In-Reply-To: <33CBB0EB.33DB@ix.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Dan wrote: > 21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban > 5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical > around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory > thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. > > Dan L > > > Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The > > only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is *************** imperial gallon... someone else can do the imperial gal -> US gal conversion. I already have a head-ache. :) -Jody -- 97 Blue Vortech Z28 http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 18:36:19 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA29980; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:27:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fireball.smartnet.co.za by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA29975; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:26:55 -0400 Received: from nico (pta-dialin-29.smartnet.co.za [196.25.216.158]) by fireball.smartnet.co.za (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA30690 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:31:03 +0200 Message-Id: <199707151831.UAA30690@fireball.smartnet.co.za> From: "nico badenhorst" To: Subject: Re: le jetronic fault codes? Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:23:44 +0300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ---------- > From: Rich Mauruschat > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: le jetronic fault codes? > Date: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 5:50 PM > > At 14:46 13/07/97 +0300, you wrote: > >Hi Richard, > > > >i know the motronic ml4.1 system, as fitted to (in my case) the 2L gsi opel > >kadett ( 8v) > >i think its called a vauxhall astra ? in the uk ? ,anyway i know this > >system returns the > >error codes via the engine warning light on the dashboard if certain pins > >in the diagnostic > >plug are shorted out.. > > > >so my other car is a opel monza 1.6L gsi ( again i think its called a > >belmont in uk?) > >the efi seems to be very similar to the L jetronic sytem ? ,but it does > >seem to have > >a micro proccesor since it returns error codes in the same way as the ml4.1 > >system > >its been my understanding that this system on the 1.6l is the le or maybe > >l3 jetronic, > >have i maybe got the wrong name acociated with this aplication? > >any more info? > > > >thanx a lot , > >nico > > > > > Nico, > Sorry! I may have misled you over the 1.6L sytem; early 1.6 GSi Corsa/GTE > Nova (uk) ie. 1988-1991 approx. used L3 Jetronic. L3 is easy to recognise - > ECU is mounted integrally with the airflow meter and has a 15 way 2-row > connector. It is the later 1.6 engines which use Multec. > Hope this is clearer > Richard hi richard , that's the one :) , my model is in fact a 90 model , and the ecu is integrated in the airflow meter. so thanxs for clearing that up , now , any idea where i can find a description of the error codes? do you think the codes in question might be more or less the same as the motronic ml4.1? getting there , nico From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 18:41:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA29992; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:33:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA29987; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:33:09 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA18430; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id LAA16478; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:32:44 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:32:44 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: Jeff Deifik cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19970715053537.009937b0@pop.ni.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi So this is just my guess. I assume that your Dodge is a speed density system and not a hot wire (mass air flow meter) system. In which case the computer is programed to deliver a certain amount of fuel at a certain RPM/throttle position/load. When a lobe is flattened you're not taking in as much air as you should be but the computer is oblivious to this fact since it does not physically measure the amount of incoming air it infers it from the programed look up tables. Since there is less air but a predetermined amount of fuel going in you wind up with a rich situation. I think it makes perfect sense. Worn engine means less air entering but the same amount of fuel thus the richness. (just to beat the point into the ground) Then again what do I know. What do other people think? cheers jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 19:27:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA00177; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:15:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from chappy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA00172; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:15:10 -0400 Received: (from korn@localhost) by chappy.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA10588 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:37:23 -0400 From: "Robert J. Korn" Message-Id: <199707151937.PAA10588@chappy.com> Subject: fuel inj parts from MSD To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:37:23 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <9707111603.AA23161@gaia.imes.com> from "steve ravet" at Jul 11, 97 10:55:13 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I just received a flyer from MSD on fuel management products. It has some nice stuff, EGO, TEMP, Pumps, regulators, and some tech notes including drawings of the injector and pocket hole dimensions. The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut the pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions in one shot. I saw some other people were interested in FI for single and twin cyl motorcycle engines. MSD has a set of adapters that let you mount a standard fuel injector in a 3/4 threaded hole and feed it with a rubber hose. Its essentially a cap with a hose barb and a threaded pocket that hook togeather with a wire spring. They also sell EGO bungs, injector & EGO connectors and DIY Stainless steel fuel rail parts. the injector pocket drawing is very detailed. Its worth a look I do have access to a scanner if anyone wants to see the drawings but for a freebie catalog its a must have......... From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 19:27:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA00169; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:13:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA00156; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:13:45 -0400 Received: by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net; id OAA05584; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:09:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(192.1.52.1) by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net via smap (V3.1.1) id xma004237; Tue, 15 Jul 97 13:56:58 -0500 Received: by exchange1.ixc-comm.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9127.F3051580@exchange1.ixc-comm.net>; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:04:02 -0500 Message-ID: From: John Hess To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: 700R4 ratios Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 14:04:58 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >---------- >From: Jody Shapiro[SMTP:jshapiro@bit-net.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 1:13 PM >To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios > >On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Dan wrote: > >> 21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >> 5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >> around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >> thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. >> >> Dan L >> >> > Just for the record I have an 89 suburban 5.7 tbi with a 3:73 rear. The >> > only time I've ever done worse than 21 mpg highway (Imperial gallon) is > *************** > >imperial gallon... > >someone else can do the imperial gal -> US gal conversion. I already have >a head-ache. :) > >-Jody > >-- >97 Blue Vortech Z28 >http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ > The figures given are closer to kilometers per imperial gallon than miles per gallon (of any kind). From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 19:31:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA00191; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:18:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA00185; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:18:46 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr11-dialup53.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01IL9QKE05W096YYER@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:15:25 EDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:09:09 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios In-reply-to: <33CBB0EB.33DB@ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi, diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970715150909.009057d0@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <199707150136.SAA13973@edam.direct.ca> <33CBA374.3C6AF5D1@uleth.ca> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. Maybe that gent is carrying around a full cargo of helium balloons, thus making his vehicle lighter :) It depends on driving style, load, hills, etc. I get 29.5 MPG regularly with my '93 Continental, as long as I don't speed over 65 too much, and don't stomp it too hard. Locally, I hit 'bout 12-13 MPG. Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 20:01:21 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA00319; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:49:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from fxiod06.is.chrysler.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA00314; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:49:23 -0400 From: jb24@chrysler.com Received: by fxiod06.is.chrysler.com; id PAA01889; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:48:54 -0400 Received: from odhubpr1-le0.oddc.chrysler.com(192.168.212.80) by fxiod06.is.chrysler.com via smap (3.2) id xma001877; Tue, 15 Jul 97 15:48:49 -0400 Received: from ODEMXPR1.ODDC.CHRYSLER.COM (odemxpr1-dgen0.oddc.chrysler.com [129.9.196.20]) by odhubpr1-nf0.oddc.chrysler.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/chrysler-relay.1.2-kcd) with SMTP id PAA14407 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:48:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ODEMXPR1.ODDC.CHRYSLER.COM (Soft-Switch LMS 2.0) with snapi via NOTES id 0041200000175590; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:47:36 -0400 To: Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich co Message-ID: <0041200000175590000002L002*@MHS> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:47:36 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; name="MEMO 07/15/97 15:39:19" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dodge Turbo IIs have adaptive fueling. EGO modifies speed/density lookup table based on exhaust mixture. I would lean toward the ecu leaning out the mixture to compensate for one rich cylinder, as was said earlier. John Bucknell jb24@chrysler.com 85 GLH Turbo (still goes like heck) From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 20:24:19 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA00376; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:12:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA00371; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:12:30 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15684; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:11:41 -0500 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:11:41 -0500 Message-Id: <9707152011.AA15684@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >>21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >>5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >>around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >>thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. > >Maybe that gent is carrying around a full cargo of helium balloons, thus >making his vehicle lighter :) > >It depends on driving style, load, hills, etc. I get 29.5 MPG regularly >with my '93 Continental, as long as I don't speed over 65 too much, and >don't stomp it too hard. Locally, I hit 'bout 12-13 MPG. yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd love to know how to get 15 mpg Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 21:11:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA00445; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:03:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from stimpy.fp.co.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA00440; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:03:41 -0400 Received: from minor.fp.co.nz (minor [97.1.1.12]) by stimpy.fp.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA23170 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:03:39 +1200 (NZST) Received: from psc.fp.co.nz by minor.fp.co.nz (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with ESMTP id JAA16472 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:03:38 +1200 Received: from SCRATCHY/SpoolDir by psc.fp.co.nz (Mercury 1.31); 16 Jul 97 09:04:48 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by SCRATCHY (Mercury 1.31); 16 Jul 97 09:04:18 +1100 From: "Tony Bryant" Organization: Fisher & Paykel PSC To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:04:08 +1200 Subject: Toothed wheels Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <16A3451254C@psc.fp.co.nz> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi What was the verdict with the TDC mark on toothed wheels? Which was the best (with an LM1815?) Missing tooth, Extra tooth, 2 Missing teeth, Shifted tooth, Extra sensor on a different mark? $$$ MAKE CAR FAST $$$ bryantt@psc.fp.co.nz From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 21:11:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA00436; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:01:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from stimpy.fp.co.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA00431; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:00:55 -0400 Received: from minor.fp.co.nz (minor [97.1.1.12]) by stimpy.fp.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA23115 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:00:40 +1200 (NZST) Received: from psc.fp.co.nz by minor.fp.co.nz (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with ESMTP id JAA15906 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:00:38 +1200 Received: from SCRATCHY/SpoolDir by psc.fp.co.nz (Mercury 1.31); 16 Jul 97 09:01:49 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by SCRATCHY (Mercury 1.31); 16 Jul 97 09:01:20 +1100 From: "Tony Bryant" Organization: Fisher & Paykel PSC To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:01:11 +1200 Subject: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <16A27A834F8@psc.fp.co.nz> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi R.e. Leak down testing. What units is leakdown typically measured in? What are some example good and bad numbers? And what pressure does the cylinder get pressured to? Thanks. $$$ MAKE CAR FAST $$$ bryantt@psc.fp.co.nz From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 22:11:31 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA00574; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:04:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linet02.li.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA00567; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:04:05 -0400 Received: from linet01 (jgn@linet01.li.net [199.171.6.11]) by linet02.li.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA18064 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:04:04 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:04:03 -0400 (EDT) From: John Napoli X-Sender: jgn@linet01 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios In-Reply-To: <9707152011.AA15684@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Tom Cloud wrote: > > yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, > like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have > a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. > It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into > it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd > love to know how to get 15 mpg > My 88 Chevy fullsize p/u has the same gears and really tall tires. I get 17 or better on the highway -- have sen 22 - and 12 to 15 around town. John From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 22:47:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA00743; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:38:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA00738; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:38:29 -0400 Received: by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net; id RAA02061; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:34:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(192.1.52.1) by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net via smap (V3.1.1) id xma001646; Tue, 15 Jul 97 17:31:07 -0500 Received: by exchange1.ixc-comm.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC9145.DF4D3040@exchange1.ixc-comm.net>; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:38:14 -0500 Message-ID: From: John Hess To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: 700R4 ratios Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:39:10 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Let's face it. A Continental is NOT a billboard! >---------- >From: Frederic Breitwieser[SMTP:frederic.breitwieser@mcione.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 1997 2:09 PM >To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios > >>21MPG in a 5,700lb suburban?! I have a Tahoe and a Suburban >>5.7 tbi and see 15MPG highway with the Tahoe! 11 MPG is typical >>around town and that's driving very nicely. Not even the factory >>thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway. > >Maybe that gent is carrying around a full cargo of helium balloons, thus >making his vehicle lighter :) > >It depends on driving style, load, hills, etc. I get 29.5 MPG regularly >with my '93 Continental, as long as I don't speed over 65 too much, and >don't stomp it too hard. Locally, I hit 'bout 12-13 MPG. > > >Frederic Breitwieser >Homebrew Automotive Mailing List >Bridgeport, CT 06606 >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html >1989 AG Hummer 4-Door >1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental >2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car > > > > > >--- > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 22:47:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA00751; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:41:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ccnet3.ccnet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA00746; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:41:09 -0400 Received: from localhost (fmlin@localhost) by ccnet3.ccnet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02519 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:39:17 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:39:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Frank/G.speed" X-Sender: fmlin@ccnet3 To: diy_efi Subject: g.Analyst's g.Link cable spec? In-Reply-To: <199707150900.JAA27612@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I finally got a used g.Analyst. Couple months ago I posted: "This is slightly off topic (sorry), but does anyone know if G-A's peripherals connector is indeed non standard serial port?! This is from their literature: "The g.Link is an accessory for the g.Analyst that plugs into the peripherals connector on the transducer. The g.Link converts the g.Analyst's non-standard, internal signal levels, using miniature electronic circuitry, into industry standard RS-232 voltage levels..." I was hoping somebody has the pinouts so I can get a cable built cheaper than the $100 Valentine Research is asking." I had got a reply but since at that time the unit I looked at were sold so I didn't get the spec. (was it you Fred?) Frank M. Lin | G.speed - Z.Speed Trust HKS DC-Sports Razo/Carmate Soei fmlin@ccnet.com | Web page - http://www.ccnet.com/~fmlin/gspeed.html 95 del Sol VTEC | Info sheet - "finger fmlin@ccnet.com > gspeed.info" ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Honda 1/4 mi. registery - http://www.ccnet.com/~fmlin/pbh/fastest From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 23:04:43 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA00784; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:56:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA00779; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:56:24 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDDUCMDS000BU@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:55 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:57:25 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:56:33 +1200 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:39:33 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Map sensor and boost solenoid To: diy_efi Message-id: <14780CF4E1C@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? Thanks Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 23:51:16 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA00847; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:43:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA00838; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:43:21 -0400 Received: from NB01167825.internetMCI.COM (usr2-dialup7.mix1.WillowSprings.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01IL9ZVSVRX499F02G@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:42:12 EDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:28:22 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios In-reply-to: <9707152011.AA15684@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19970715072822.006971d4@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, >like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have This is true, I'll have to look up the weight, however I believe its in the 4000lb range. Not a lot of plastic :) >a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. >It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into I do as well... sudden fuel mileage drop is a good indicator that something is wrong or about to be wrong. >it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd >love to know how to get 15 mpg I had a F-250 crewcab with a 460, with 48"x18" tires, and definately was in the single digits ALL the time. Even when it was flatbedded somewhere :) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 23:51:19 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA00846; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:43:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA00836; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:43:20 -0400 Received: from NB01167825.internetMCI.COM (usr2-dialup7.mix1.WillowSprings.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01IL9ZVSVRX499F02G@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:42:09 EDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:57:54 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: dodge 2.2 turbo II odd efi problem, intermittent rich condition In-reply-to: X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19970715155754.0069b0ac@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <3.0.3.32.19970715053537.009937b0@pop.ni.net> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >situation. I think it makes perfect sense. Worn engine means less air >entering but the same amount of fuel thus the richness. (just to beat the >point into the ground) > >Then again what do I know. What do other people think? While I cannot verify or refute your comments, your logic is absolutely reasonable :). Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 23:53:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA00858; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:47:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA00853; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:47:20 -0400 Received: from NB01167825.internetMCI.COM (usr2-dialup7.mix1.WillowSprings.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01IL9ZYSV4FG99F025@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:44:32 EDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 07:45:10 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: RE: 700R4 ratios X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19970715074510.0069d3d4@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Let's face it. A Continental is NOT a billboard! True, but my point was this... its not exactly a 800lb MiniCooper either. 4000lb curb weight before the supercharger, before the fullsize spare tire, before all the crap in the trunk, etc, is nothing to sneeze at either. I'm not fighting... just was trying to make a comparison that obviously didn't work for me at the time Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 15 23:56:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA00867; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:50:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wolfenet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA00862; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:50:14 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA16746 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:50:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id QAA02400 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707152350.QAA02400@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:50:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <14780CF4E1C@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> from "Simon Quested" at Jul 16, 97 10:39:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source > for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said > that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this > sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? Ridiculous. Try Allied Electronics (www.allied.avnet.com) MPX200AP is $8.35. I'd go for the MPX4250 which is signal conditioned and temperature compensated on-chip with a 0-4.69V output off a 5.1V supply for $22.26. Unfortunately Allied have a $50 minimum, but that's not usually a problem for me! Orin. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 01:36:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA01001; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:28:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from waldorf.cc.wwu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA00996; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:28:51 -0400 Received: by waldorf.cc.wwu.edu (5.65/WWU-M1.0/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA12495; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:28:49 -0700 Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid In-Reply-To: <199707152350.QAA02400@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Tue, 15 Jul 1997, Orin Eman wrote: > > I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source > > for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said > > that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this > > sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? > > Ridiculous. Try Allied Electronics (www.allied.avnet.com) MPX200AP is > $8.35. I'd go for the MPX4250 which is signal conditioned and > temperature compensated on-chip with a 0-4.69V output off a 5.1V > supply for $22.26. > > Unfortunately Allied have a $50 minimum, but that's not usually a problem > for me! > > Orin. > _ I got by with a $25 minimum about 1.5 months ago. If I had thought about it and bought the LM1925 voltage regulator with delayed reset at the same time, I wouldn't have had to padd the order for the MXP 4250 out to $25... Going to go check stuff out on the scope on friday.. injectors driver board and maybe the HC11 and code. Seth From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 01:36:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA00992; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:25:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout09.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA00986; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:25:51 -0400 From: JColl62271@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout09.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id VAA26044 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970715212545_915411341@emout09.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Fiat woes Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Used to own a Spyder 2000 which would run great and then suddenly die out. It would coast for a while as if it had just bearly enough power to keep the engine ticking over, then it would surge back to life. Each time everything you mentioned would check out. After weeks of hair pulling and expensive Eytalian car mechanics I found the source of my problem to be a crappy fuel pump relay which would run the pump, but had so much resistance though the points that the pump would barely run. I guess at some times it would heat up enough to quit altogether. The old L-jetronic didn't diagnose itself, so it took awhile to find. Repalaced the relay, bosch, can't recall the pn, and the problem went away. Hope yours is as simple. Jack From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 01:45:16 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA01031; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 01:38:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from sweden.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA01026; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:38:29 -0400 Received: from default (1Cust126.Max45.Philadelphia.PA.MS.UU.NET [153.35.169.126]) by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA21729 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33CC25A4.FF391064@Earthlink.Net> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:36:36 -0400 From: Frank Piccolo X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Map sensor and boost solenoid X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <14780CF4E1C@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi For what you are doing yes. You can get a PIC 20MHz controller from Digikey for under $20.00. Should be ample for what your doing. Frank Simon Quested wrote: > Hi All > > I'm building a boost controller and I'd like to find a cheep source > for a map sensor and 3 boost control solenoids. One place I rang said > that they could supply me with a motorolla MPX200AP for US$140 this > sounds expensive for a semiconductor are they tring to rip me off? > > Thanks > > Simon > > +++++ > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) > Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support > Centre for Computing and Biometrics > LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND > Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 02:48:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA01107; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:40:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA01102; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:40:15 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME ([207.147.178.31]) by mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA6053 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:40:08 +0000 X-Sender: anson..lee@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: george lee Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:40:08 +0000 Message-ID: <19970716024003.AAA6053@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 07:37 PM 7/15/97 +0000, you wrote: >I just received a flyer from MSD on fuel management products. >It has some nice stuff, EGO, TEMP, Pumps, regulators, and some tech >notes including drawings of the injector and pocket hole dimensions. > >The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut the >pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions in >one shot. > >I saw some other people were interested in FI for single and twin cyl >motorcycle engines. MSD has a set of adapters that let you mount a >standard fuel injector in a 3/4 threaded hole and feed it with a rubber >hose. Its essentially a cap with a hose barb and a threaded pocket >that hook togeather with a wire spring. > >They also sell EGO bungs, injector & EGO connectors and DIY Stainless >steel fuel rail parts. > >the injector pocket drawing is very detailed. Its worth a look > >I do have access to a scanner if anyone wants to see the drawings >but for a freebie catalog its a must have......... >every thing but msd web page info ? From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 02:57:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA01140; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:50:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mbox.ualr.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA01135; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:50:52 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #15587) id <01ILA4EAU1KW00009I@UALR.EDU>; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:50:45 CDT Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 17:43:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: fuel inj parts from MSD To: diy_efi Message-id: <360736.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 X-Envelope-to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi -> The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut -> the pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions -> in one shot. Yes. They want $166 for that drill bit. When I converted a carb manifold a few months ago I was astonished to find that a) a straight hole will work just fine b) OEM/aftermarket hole sizes wander all over the place A straight piece of tubing somewhere around 9/16 ID will do the job. Various places want $5 to $8 for pre-made bungs you can weld directly to the manifold, with the stepped hole already drilled. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 03:29:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA01201; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:21:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA01196; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:21:43 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id UAA17820 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:23:17 -0700 Message-ID: <33CC3ECB.7618E9D5@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 20:23:55 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) References: <16A27A834F8@psc.fp.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Tony Bryant wrote: > > R.e. Leak down testing. > > What units is leakdown typically measured in? > > What are some example good and bad numbers? > > And what pressure does the cylinder get pressured > to? > Typically, you would use 80psi on the supply side. In aviation, again typically, when the cylinder gets down below 60psi, it won't pass. In racing, it's usually used to find the bad hole and listening where the air is escaping from will tell you pretty much exactly what's bad about it. All it is, is an orfice of known size between the supply side and it's guage, and the cylinder side and it's guage. The more the leakage, the higher the differential from one side to the other. If you run 80psi on the supply side, I would expect at least 70psi on the cylinder side. If you can't get that, then listen for where the air is leaking. If you hear it in the intake manifold, the intake valve is leaking, headers means exhaust valve and so on. Most of the time, I consider valve leakage to be cause for pulling that head and taking care of it, while ring leakage is going to always be there a little bit, and you just have to make the determination of what's acceptable to you. It is a very good device for finding the weak cylinder, and for telling you exactly why it's weak. You can also use it to log trends across all of the cylinders. If you do a leak down every time you do a tune up or other routine maintenance, and keep a record of it, you can get a pretty good idea of cylinder condition, and it will take a lot of the guess work out of troubleshooting when something goes wrong. -j- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 03:38:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA01226; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:32:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA01221; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:32:01 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.224] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ba332905 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:35:33 -0400 Received: by port224.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC9177.00F01100@port224.tnt1.bignet.net>; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:29:56 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC9177.00F01100@port224.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:29:53 -0400 Encoding: 35 TEXT, 48 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >R.e. Leak down testing. >What units is leakdown typically measured in? In theory leakdown is in percentage leakage. However, typical gauges vary a lot from gauge to gauge so you need to be familiar with the gauge you are using. I have heard that there are some gauges used for leakdown testing of aircraft engines that are much better than the automotive ones, but I have no experience with them. >What are some example good and bad numbers? Race engines: >10% Street engines: >50% (obviously it depends on how much you care.) Most of the time what you are looking for is cylinder to cylinder discrepancies. Whether the engine is cold or hot can also have big effects. Some engines only seal well when fully warm. >And what pressure does the cylinder get pressured >to? The gauge manufacturer usually specifies a line pressure for the cylinder. It is usually less than 100psi. >Thanks. >$$$ MAKE CAR FAST $$$ >bryantt@psc.fp.co.nz Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C@#`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;FL" M@P!0`O()`@!C: K 7!I8Y$'0&QY( > M87,(<.,)@"10;C\@((\+TR:?Y2&821]Q:&4%L"6@))?3)&$+@"!P!)!C"? ! MD)QG922#*Z$>T"!('U T978$D"P;-24E(&=L874KL 0@=@K ):!ANR2 &M @ M`U(MY!^ ;R]5VG,OT'D(8!LU;@G@)C#%+\%B*\!F86T#$ "LQ M")!N*V R5VTN_R L(C\C2C8W/J QX M0,M&6;P1P+J!N)C!B828PS&YU!M $ MD',_* \GO]TA7%(`T$,1.@0Z0, 9,'(E&S53= G1.==(P36#20`F@"AO8G9I M"&#N\Y$ W!&O%4$E-"\SH%`B#_)9 ;-1&P+<$LH"6 3]$)\/4O`'4E@G<* MP#_?0.\:U/Y!1!%/XQ-0!Y E\A\Q.D/_*\!2QRNP7HA5YD;?(A\:IV\OP$3_ M8B@;-50RQP.!=5\QT!L`)@$%P#/0=25S<_LK,%/@9E/Q+J)50EZF&S7_-X)? MBC0B!4 D86?V)) $$?,[PQDP,' `D%NF8M\:W=]E#V+/&L5F@ !P:U00("\W MG,.&\]Y,TK)!W @0@A@9V@OP#@VVP;@?P1 5[$Q('1\$!' M7PM&$K(,`V[]%3$`@T ``P`0$ $````#`!$0`````$ `!S!@/%:4EY&\`4 ` @"#!@/%:4EY&\`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B `````K*0` ` end From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 03:43:21 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA01236; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:36:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from stimpy.fp.co.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA01230; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:36:34 -0400 Received: from minor.fp.co.nz (minor [97.1.1.12]) by stimpy.fp.co.nz (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27603 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:36:29 +1200 (NZST) Received: from psc.fp.co.nz by minor.fp.co.nz (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) with ESMTP id PAA26089 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:36:26 +1200 Received: from SCRATCHY/SpoolDir by psc.fp.co.nz (Mercury 1.31); 16 Jul 97 15:37:39 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by SCRATCHY (Mercury 1.31); 16 Jul 97 15:37:15 +1100 From: "Tony Bryant" Organization: Fisher & Paykel PSC To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:37:13 +1200 Subject: Fuel pressure guage isolator Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: <170C12F28AF@psc.fp.co.nz> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure guage to the other side, so that fuel can never get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. Has anybody made one of these, and if so, how? Alternatively, would your average electric oil pressure sender unit survive the nasties of high octane unleaded? From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 04:09:11 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA01273; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:59:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wagner.mtco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA01268; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:58:57 -0400 Received: from 170-120-45.ipt.aol.com (170-120-45.ipt.aol.com [152.170.120.45]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.8.5/8.5.9) with SMTP id WAA26582 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:58:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 22:58:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707160358.WAA26582@wagner.mtco.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.mtco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > When I converted a carb manifold a few months ago I was astonished to >find that > >a) a straight hole will work just fine >b) OEM/aftermarket hole sizes wander all over the place > > A straight piece of tubing somewhere around 9/16 ID will do the job. > 14 mm is the actual size. 9/16 is just a bit larger. David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 04:12:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA01288; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 04:06:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA01283; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:06:00 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA02490 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:05:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nbw-nj10-19.ix.netcom.com(207.94.119.83) by dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma002451; Tue Jul 15 23:05:46 1997 Message-ID: <33CC720F.1A6C@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:02:40 -0700 From: Ed or Jose X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator References: <170C12F28AF@psc.fp.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Tony Bryant wrote: > > What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the > fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure > guage to the other side, so that fuel can never > get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. > Auto Meter sells such an isolator. I have last year's catalog somewhere here...I'll post the part # as soon as I find it. I believe it's designed to handle up to 300 psi. -Ed From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 04:12:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA01295; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 04:06:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ridgecrest.ca.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA01290; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:06:16 -0400 From: sam2@ridgecrest.ca.us Received: from annex068.ridgecrest.ca.us (annex068 [199.120.150.78]) by ridgecrest.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8-custom) with SMTP id VAA11945 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Posted-Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707160406.VAA11945@ridgecrest.ca.us> X-Sender: sam2@ridgecrest.ca.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) X-Mailer: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Typically, you would use 80psi on the supply side. In aviation, again >typically, when the cylinder gets down below 60psi, it won't pass. In You mean you can't use 60psi? How do you hold the piston at top dead center at 80psi? From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 04:33:57 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA01346; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 04:25:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA01341; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:25:48 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA19262 for ; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:25:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:25:45 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707160425.XAA19262@dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com> Received: from ven-ca2-04.ix.netcom.com(205.186.74.68) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma019226; Tue Jul 15 23:25:20 1997 X-Sender: fcmtb@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Fred Miranda Subject: Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I've been using a VDO oil pressure sender for fuel pressure on my GTX for 3-4yrs now. Don't know if high octane unleaded would be any different than 92. Fred At 03:37 PM 7/16/97 +1200, you wrote: >What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the >fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure >guage to the other side, so that fuel can never >get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. > >Has anybody made one of these, and if so, how? > >Alternatively, would your average electric oil pressure >sender unit survive the nasties of high octane unleaded? > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 07:39:30 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id HAA01552; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:29:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id DAA01547; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 03:29:20 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1303147; 16 Jul 97 8:26 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id IAA17416 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:22:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:22:31 +0100 Message-Id: <199707160722.IAA17416@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 15:37 15/07/97 -0400, you wrote: >I just received a flyer from MSD on fuel management products. >It has some nice stuff, EGO, TEMP, Pumps, regulators, and some tech >notes including drawings of the injector and pocket hole dimensions. > >The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut the >pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions in >one shot. > >I saw some other people were interested in FI for single and twin cyl >motorcycle engines. MSD has a set of adapters that let you mount a >standard fuel injector in a 3/4 threaded hole and feed it with a rubber >hose. Its essentially a cap with a hose barb and a threaded pocket >that hook togeather with a wire spring. > >They also sell EGO bungs, injector & EGO connectors and DIY Stainless >steel fuel rail parts. > >the injector pocket drawing is very detailed. Its worth a look > >I do have access to a scanner if anyone wants to see the drawings >but for a freebie catalog its a must have......... > > Robert, Yes please! sounds interesting. Presumably these MSD guys are in the US? How can they be contacted? do they have e-mail? Thanks Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 10:42:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id KAA01877; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:33:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from korky.fe.up.pt by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id GAA01872; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 06:33:27 -0400 Received: by korky.fe.up.pt; id AA08392; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:34:28 GMT Received: from xyppp2.fe.up.pt by crazy.fe.up.pt; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/16Oct95-0259PM) id AA15057; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:34:50 GMT Message-Id: <9707161134.AA15057@crazy.fe.up.pt> From: "Carlos Costa" To: Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 21:38:53 +0100 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > From: Robert J. Korn > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: fuel inj parts from MSD > Date: Terga-feira, 15 de Julho de 1997 20:37 > > I just received a flyer from MSD on fuel management products. > It has some nice stuff, EGO, TEMP, Pumps, regulators, and some tech > notes including drawings of the injector and pocket hole dimensions. > I do have access to a scanner if anyone wants to see the drawings > but for a freebie catalog its a must have......... Sounds great!... Where/how can I get my hands on a catalog? (I'm in Europe...) Carlos mec144@crazy.fe.up.pt Faculdade de Engenharia da Universidade do Porto From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 12:47:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA02281; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:38:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from oasys.dt.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA02276; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:38:23 -0400 Received: from gallant.dt.navy.mil by oasys.dt.navy.mil (5.61/oasys.dt.navy.mil) id AA17704; Wed, 16 Jul 97 08:38:06 EDT Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 08:38:06 EDT Message-Id: <9707161238.AA17704@oasys.dt.navy.mil> From: "Robert Gallant" To: autox@autox.team.net, vettes@asuvm.inre.asu.edu, diy_efi, hotrod@dsea.com, rx7@world.std.com Subject: [all] ProJection DFI for sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: POPmail 2.3b7 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I'm selling my Holley Projection DFI (PC programmable). Its approx 1.5 years old. 700 CFM 4-bbl throttle body 65 and 80 lb/hr injector sets idle air control programmable ignition timing data acquisition software System measures: RPM Intake air temp Water temp O2 Manifold absolute pressure Email me for additional information. Rob gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 13:02:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA02363; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:53:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gateway.symtx.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA02357; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:53:55 -0400 Received: from locutus.symtx.com by gateway.symtx.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA27943; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:50:57 -0500 Received: by locutus.symtx.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC91BD.677B6DC0@locutus.symtx.com>; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:53:53 -0500 Message-Id: <01BC91BD.677B6DC0@locutus.symtx.com> From: Greg Woods To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:53:51 -0500 Encoding: 25 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi DIY_EFI-Digest-Owner@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu wrote: > >I just received a flyer from MSD on fuel management products. > >It has some nice stuff, EGO, TEMP, Pumps, regulators, and some tech > >notes including drawings of the injector and pocket hole dimensions. > > > Robert, > Yes please! sounds interesting. Presumably these MSD guys are in the US? How > can they be contacted? do they have e-mail? > Thanks > Richard MSD info: Web: http://www.msdignition.com/1msdign.htm Email: msdtech@msdignition.com Phone(tech support) (915) 855-7123 MSD is located in ElPaso, TX, USA. Greg Woods gwoods@symtx.com austin, TX 86XJ, TBI From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 14:06:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA02725; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:58:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA02720; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:58:16 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA20002 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:00:02 -0700 Message-ID: <33CCD401.2502DCB2@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:00:33 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) References: <199707160406.VAA11945@ridgecrest.ca.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi sam2@ridgecrest.ca.us wrote: > > >Typically, you would use 80psi on the supply side. In aviation, again > >typically, when the cylinder gets down below 60psi, it won't pass. In > > You mean you can't use 60psi? How do you hold the piston at top dead center > at 80psi? What I meant was, with the supply side guage reading 80psi, the other gauge shouldn't read below 60psi, but your milage will vary. To keep it at TDC, you get it centered really well first, and then hang on like hell to the prop to keep it from starting to go one way or the other. Usually, I rest the prop blade on my shoulder, or get someone to help while I read the guage. In a car you put a breaker bar on the crank bolt and brace it against the floor or the frame or whatever you can. The key is to get the piston really centered on top first. Let the 0 angle of the con rod help you out. -j- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 14:09:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA02745; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:03:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA02739; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:03:42 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr2-dialup35.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01ILATSUH1N096Z2HR@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:01:36 EDT Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:50:30 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Promised supercharger information X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: homebrew-autos@bolis.com, diy_efi, kitcar@bolis.com Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970716095030.00902870@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi My apologies for bulk-mailing the three lists. I had promised someone a copy of a "supercharged/Turbo" Theory article, however I lost this person's email/snailmail address. As embarrased as I am, I'd like to fulfill my promise :) Thanks, Fred From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 14:22:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA02815; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:15:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from synunix.netsynergy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA02810; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:15:32 -0400 From: mcosta@netsynergy.com Received: from smtplink2.netsynergy.com (smtplink2.netsynergy.com [205.246.18.27]) by synunix.netsynergy.com (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id OAA00979 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 14:09:07 GMT Received: from cc:Mail by smtplink2.netsynergy.com id AA869073023; Wed, 16 Jul 97 10:08:27 EST Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 10:08:27 EST Encoding: 15 Text Message-Id: <9706168690.AA869073023@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Engine Control IC'S Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Does anyone know of manufactures of IC's like electromotive's HREIC or the IC that the DIY_EFI page has the 55 page postscript spec sheet on i.e Silicon systems 67f687 engine interface peripheral. Neither of these products is available. Electromotive will not sell their IC, and the one from silicon systems is actually made by tdk and is no longer produced. If anyone has info on where I can find either on of these IC's or something similar to them, I would greatly appreciate the help. Thanks In Advance MIKE COSTA From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 15:12:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA03163; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:03:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA03156; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:03:11 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22452; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:02:22 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:02:22 -0500 Message-Id: <9707161502.AA22452@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >> yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, >> like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have >> a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. >> It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into >> it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd >> love to know how to get 15 mpg >> > >My 88 Chevy fullsize p/u has the same gears and really tall tires. I get >17 or better on the highway -- have sen 22 - and 12 to 15 around town. we're probably straying slightly from the forum content, but 5600 pounds weighs more than your pu loaded to its max (assuming it's a 1/2 ton) -- 4000# + 1000# = 5000#. Imagine what mpg you'd get if you drove it fully loaded ** all the time ** ..... and then add 600 more pounds, plus occupants ... and other paraphernalia -- up to another 1/2 ton [the 'burban weighs 5600# ... dry, no fuel, no occupants, no nothing -- not even floor mats ;-) ] Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 15:39:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA03355; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:30:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA03349; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:30:07 -0400 From: A70Duster@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id LAA16757 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970716112927_559089243@emout14.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Air mass sensor Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Somebody had some AMS for sale (GM 5.7 TPI flavored). Who was that? Thanks for the help. See ya, Mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 15:52:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA03445; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:44:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA03440; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:44:25 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1109722; 16 Jul 97 16:44 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id QAA18281 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:40:39 +0100 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:40:39 +0100 Message-Id: <199707161540.QAA18281@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: Engine Control IC'S Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 10:08 16/07/97 EST, you wrote: > > > > Does anyone know of manufactures of IC's like electromotive's HREIC or > the IC that the DIY_EFI page has the 55 page postscript spec sheet on > i.e Silicon systems 67f687 engine interface peripheral. Neither of > these products is available. Electromotive will not sell their IC, and > the one from silicon systems is actually made by tdk and is no longer > produced. If anyone has info on where I can find either on of these > IC's or something similar to them, I would greatly appreciate the > help. > > Thanks In Advance > > MIKE COSTA > Mike, I have used the 67f687 in my project, I started it at the time this chip was released (actually have engineering sample silicon!) and tried recently to bottom out the availability (or lack of) rumours. Long story, spoke to UK represenative for SSI/TDK and SSI factory, bottom line - now finished production. BUT.... I have it from the horses mouth that there is still die stock at the factory in the US. If someone is enterprising or brave? enough to commit to ordering a reasonable number (a few hundred I guess) I get the impression that these brill devices are technically still available but I couldn't get any idea of cost. If anyone fancies a go, I can supply a contact at the factory. This is the situation as of last week. GOOD LUCK! Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 16:37:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA03514; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:28:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA03508; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:28:29 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA27702; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:27:39 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:27:39 -0500 Message-Id: <9707161627.AA27702@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: RE: Leak down testing (not strictly EFI related) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > >>R.e. Leak down testing. > >>What units is leakdown typically measured in? > >In theory leakdown is in percentage leakage. However, >typical gauges vary a lot from gauge to gauge so you >need to be familiar with the gauge you are using. I have >heard that there are some gauges used for leakdown >testing of aircraft engines that are much better than the >automotive ones, but I have no experience with them. > >>What are some example good and bad numbers? > >Race engines: >10% >Street engines: >50% (obviously it depends on how > much you care.) >Most of the time what you are looking for is cylinder >to cylinder discrepancies. Whether the engine is cold >or hot can also have big effects. Some engines only >seal well when fully warm. > >>And what pressure does the cylinder get pressured >>to? > >The gauge manufacturer usually specifies a line pressure >for the cylinder. It is usually less than 100psi. I'd think the "measurement" would be in percent of charge lost per unit time, though the volume of the chamber being pressurized would have to be taken into account to be able to make comparison Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 16:38:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA03513; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:28:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA03502; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:28:27 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA27696; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:27:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:27:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9707161627.AA27696@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the >fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure >guage to the other side, so that fuel can never >get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. > >Has anybody made one of these, and if so, how? > >Alternatively, would your average electric oil pressure >sender unit survive the nasties of high octane unleaded? look in the Summit or Jegs catalog -- they sell isolators. also check out the pressure transducers in the Digi-Key catalog (p. 454 in May-June). The Measurement Specialties SS xducer costs ~ $85 and will work, but you're going to have to have some electronics (i.e. op-amp signal conditioning) to make it work Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 16:41:30 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA03543; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:35:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA03538; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:35:23 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA25978; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:34:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:34:34 -0500 Message-Id: <9707161634.AA25978@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 1 (Highest) To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Yes please! sounds interesting. Presumably these MSD guys are in the US? How >can they be contacted? do they have e-mail? try Todd Ryden Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 16:54:56 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA03588; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 16:48:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from chappy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA03583; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:48:08 -0400 Received: (from korn@localhost) by chappy.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id NAA13754 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:07:12 -0400 From: "Robert J. Korn" Message-Id: <199707161707.NAA13754@chappy.com> Subject: Re: fuel inj parts from MSD To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:07:12 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <360736.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> from "Dave Williams" at Jul 15, 97 05:43:00 pm Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > > > -> The most useful tool I saw was a modified drill bit that could cut > -> the pocket hole for an injector with the correct shape and dimensions > -> in one shot. > > Yes. They want $166 for that drill bit. > If you do a lot of work that might pay off but for me I'm happy with their detailed cross section of the pocket with proper angles and radius' marked ! I plan on making a few this weekend on my lathe. Should be able to do it for free since I have a scrap piece of aluminum rod lying around...... Have to admit that I hardly ever buy from these catalogs. I just use the info to make my own parts. On a side note, all the injectors under 25lb/hr that I've seen so far are saturated type 12 or 16 ohms. Just been wasting my time with peak and hold driver chips. The smallest so far is 19lb/hr. Does anybody have a recomendation for a smaller injector ? I have to check my sister's geo metro book for its flow rate. This might be a source of parts to swap into a motorcycle application. From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 17:26:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA03706; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:15:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from synunix.netsynergy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA03701; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:15:48 -0400 From: mcosta@netsynergy.com Received: from smtplink2.netsynergy.com (smtplink2.netsynergy.com [205.246.18.27]) by synunix.netsynergy.com (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id RAA02055 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:09:23 GMT Received: from cc:Mail by smtplink2.netsynergy.com id AA869083840; Wed, 16 Jul 97 13:07:20 EST Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 13:07:20 EST Encoding: 43 Text Message-Id: <9706168690.AA869083840@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re[2]: Engine Control IC'S Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi richard, please ,please give me the number of the factory contact I need some of these IC's. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Engine Control IC'S Author: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu at INTERNET Date: 7/16/97 12:55 PM At 10:08 16/07/97 EST, you wrote: > > > > Does anyone know of manufactures of IC's like electromotive's HREIC or > the IC that the DIY_EFI page has the 55 page postscript spec sheet on > i.e Silicon systems 67f687 engine interface peripheral. Neither of > these products is available. Electromotive will not sell their IC, and > the one from silicon systems is actually made by tdk and is no longer > produced. If anyone has info on where I can find either on of these > IC's or something similar to them, I would greatly appreciate the > help. > > Thanks In Advance > > MIKE COSTA > Mike, I have used the 67f687 in my project, I started it at the time this chip was released (actually have engineering sample silicon!) and tried recently to bottom out the availability (or lack of) rumours. Long story, spoke to UK represenative for SSI/TDK and SSI factory, bottom line - now finished production. BUT.... I have it from the horses mouth that there is still die stock at the factory in the US. If someone is enterprising or brave? enough to commit to ordering a reasonable number (a few hundred I guess) I get the impression that these brill devices are technically still available but I couldn't get any idea of cost. If anyone fancies a go, I can supply a contact at the factory. This is the situation as of last week. GOOD LUCK! Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 17:38:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA03778; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:31:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from uswgco3.uswc.uswest.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA03773; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:31:30 -0400 Received: from egate2.mnet.uswest.com (egate-ne1.mnet.uswest.com [151.117.138.135]) by uswgco3.uswc.uswest.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA13954 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from westhub.mnet.uswest.com (westhub.mnet.uswest.com [148.156.21.6]) by egate2.mnet.uswest.com (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA16085 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:30:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: from cp.uswc.uswest.com (cp [151.116.143.213]) by westhub.mnet.uswest.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA00815 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:31:30 -0700 Received: from sp5-316.uswc.uswest.com by cp.uswc.uswest.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01662; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:29:57 -0600 From: scicior@uswest.com (Steve Ciciora) Received: by sp5-316.uswc.uswest.com (SMI-8.6/uswc-solaris-client.950829) id LAA06344; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:21:46 -0600 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:21:46 -0600 Message-Id: <199707161721.LAA06344@sp5-316.uswc.uswest.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Small injectors (was Re: fuel inj parts from MSD) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: mHgTAjZKm+/21Ef6vH5uUw== Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > On a side note, all the injectors under 25lb/hr that I've seen so far > are saturated type 12 or 16 ohms. Just been wasting my time with > peak and hold driver chips. The smallest so far is 19lb/hr. > > Does anybody have a recomendation for a smaller injector ? > > I have to check my sister's geo metro book for its flow rate. This > might be a source of parts to swap into a motorcycle application. Let us know what you find out. A few years ago when I wanted to fuel inject my lawnmower (3.5 HP briggs and stratton, single cyl) I called BMWs of Denver. I think they wanted $150 each for an injector off a K75S (what my brother had at the time). Called the DUMP (Denver Used Motorcycle Parts) and they wanted about half that for a used injector. Still might be fun to inject a lawnmower if I could get a cheap injector... :-) Steven Ciciora From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 16 23:52:31 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA04466; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:40:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA04461; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:40:38 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id SAA11986 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:40:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nbw-nj11-59.ix.netcom.com(207.94.119.187) by dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma011959; Wed Jul 16 18:40:29 1997 Message-ID: <33CCDE05.513C@ix.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 07:43:17 -0700 From: Ed or Jose X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: [all] ProJection DFI for sale References: <9707161238.AA17704@oasys.dt.navy.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Speaking of Pro-Jection, has anybody used this systen on a 4-cylinder? I've posted such a question to Holley's discussion board with no answer. -Ed From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 00:45:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA04554; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:36:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA04549; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 20:36:17 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA21022; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:35:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:35:29 -0500 Message-Id: <9707170035.AA21022@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: [all] ProJection DFI for sale Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Speaking of Pro-Jection, has anybody used this systen on a 4-cylinder? >I've posted such a question to Holley's discussion board with no answer. > >-Ed So, Ed or Jose, glad you're here, 'cause maybe you can he'p me with something's that's been bothering me If you threaten to kill yourselves, is it considered a hostage situation ?? re your (either one of you 8^) question about the 4 cyl, I don't remember anything in the literature on my Projection about it. I've not checked to be certain (i.e. no 'scope), but it certainly sounds like the injectors are fired directly in sync with the ignition pulses -- and if so, one could think it might work okay with 4-cyl as the fuel delivery rate would be tied directly to the number of cylinders, the rpm and the tps (I don't have the digital ProJection) Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 02:36:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA04664; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 02:25:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA04659; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:25:37 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA21112; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:24:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:24:44 -0500 Message-Id: <9707170224.AA21112@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: EEC-EFI List From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: an eec plan Cc: diy_efi, Bronco Group Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi what do most of us (with Fords) want? For myself, I'd like to be able to fiddle with all the things I used to be able to do when it was carbs and points. Actually, it's more fun now -- if one could get to the software and knew what the hardware was. I propose: - a "generic" eec replacement .... one that plugs onto the cable and takes inputs and gives outputs ... one where the software is public domain (sorta like the efi-332 project) - I propose that it is most logically a modified eec-iv that will accomplish this end advantages: - you could do what I said above -- and get as sophisticated as you wanted - if the software was public domain, the knowledge would spread beyond our group(s) and the sophistication of performance freeks, in general, would go up -- and that's a good thing, though there will be whineys that will worry about so much knowledge in the hands of "hot-rodders" - we'll actually finally be free to experiment and perfect our vehicles like we want to -- and not be limited by someone else's contraption -- no matter how well thought out -- that will never quite do exactly what "I" want it to (plus I'll only have myself to blame when it doesn't work ;-) disadvantages: - replacement eec's will become very scarce 8^) - lotsa work to pull this together, including finding out how all the little gizmos in different years and models work so the software can be made to read them and so the hardware can drive them - probably a major software project ?? (there's lots of knowledge out there already) consider that, IMHO, probably 80% of the code in the eec-iv is unrelated to making your car "GO" -- it's probably related to the "adaptive learning" (darn, *I* do that now) and diagnostic features (and who knows what else) of the eec. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have all those things, but they're not necessary. To get yourself way up the curve of diminishing returns, all you really need is sensors for rpm, tps and MAP. Then you need fuel maps or some other way of modifying the fuel flow for specific engine and hop-up configurations. That's just the software. Obviously, the hardware would be more difficult -- but we've already got an eec-iv. Now if only we could know about the hardware in it and how to program it ??? - assuming that the hardware in the eec-iv is similar enough across all models that we can find one or several that will work for most applications (that could be a daunting task in itself) we'd have to have basic code that'd run the vehicle in at least a basic mode until refinements could be made -- but consider that even a MAF vehicle could have a SD program in it that just ignored the MAF (the only serious problem I see with this would be puffers) miscellaneous thoughts: - All I'm saying is that, given reasonable objectives, I think we can crack the eec-iv and put our own code into it and have a resultant that is superior to, and far less expensive than, any aftermarket system (I'm not talking about engine mods like heads and cams and stuff -- you'd have to do those with any other system you bought). - This is possible using the GM controller (there's lots of data on it and people who've already put it onto Ford products, replacing the eec-iv -- and one I know of (on diy-efi ... George, it's you, isn't it?) that swears by this method) - heck, something like the efi-332 project controller could be made to work - using a different controller would require either cutting the connector off the harness or splicing into it or finding a source for the eec connector - a major point that would determine the feasability of using the eec-iv as the workbench for this is - do all eec-iv's ( regardless of the model) use the same, or similar, pinouts - how do different options (like MAF, etc) fit into the connection scheme - how much variability is there in various sensors ( like MAP, temp, tps, rpm pickoff, MAF, etc) and actuators (like injectors and throttle bypass, etc) ... can a single eec or other controller be reasonably expected to read the inputs and control the outputs of the diverse range of years and models and options that exist in the Ford line ?? Now that I've posted the op-codes for the 8061/3 and there's an assembler written, we can begin to get to work. Also, remember that I've posted a collection of technical data on the eec (and I've got a greatly revised and better version that I've not had the time to finish that is "imminent" -- that's what I said 6 months or so ago) A great help would be if some of the people who've pioneered in this area, like Mike W. and others, would share a little more (Mike's already shared a bunch) -- e.g. about the questions I raise above (and, in particular, about the configuration of the hardware, like the VLSI, and variations, etc on the eec and in external hardware). - how different -- or similar -- are the various eec hardware configurations ?? - is it unreasonable to expect to find one (or several) eec's that could be programmed to accept data from a variety of versions of sensors and to output to the same variety ? We need a FAQ on the eec's and on the various sensors and actuators. We will need a FAQ on software drivers that do various functions Also, some of the members of these lists work for Ford. If you know how we can ask corporate for help to accomplish this, I think it'd help Ford, not hurt them. We're not interested in pirating their code (though it is in the boxes we own), but in playing with our expensive toys we bought from them. I need your help to get this going .... anyone ? ================================================ THE END ================================================ P.S. I'm not on fordnatics or any Mustang, Mercur, Lightning, T-Bird, etc list -- only BigBroncos, eec-iv and diy-efi, so if some of you, who are on those lists, would spread this around, maybe we can get some action. FYI -- to join the eec-iv list (an unofficial subset of diy-efi) =============== Subscription info is on the eec-iv web page at: http://eelink.umich.edu:80/~p-nowak/eec-efi/ or e-mail the list admin, Paul Nowak, directly at Paul Nowak =============== for eec-iv info, check out: http://www.iaw.com/~aubertin/88mgt/eec-iv/eec-iv.htm http://204.255.212.10/~jthorsse/eectest.html Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 03:11:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA04723; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 03:03:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from axe.intercall.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA04718; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:03:14 -0400 Received: from server (ts3-142.intercall.com [207.77.25.142]) by axe.intercall.com (8.7.4/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA16860 for ; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:03:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970716230629.00926a80@mustafa.hempseed.com> X-Sender: lowe@mustafa.hempseed.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:06:29 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Greg Lowe Subject: 60 Pin Connector Group Buy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi It seems that a lot of people have been interested in getting the 60 pin connector like the one on the EEC-IV. I would like to sponser a group buy of this connector. I looked on the sponsor page but could find no way to enter this part. If anyone would be interested in this, or the harness, connector please let me know. Regards, Greg Lowe The Informer: http://www.intercall.net/~gendev/informer From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 04:09:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA04810; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 04:00:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from sierra.onr.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA04805; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:00:29 -0400 Received: from default (Onramp_SA1-V1.onr.com [206.104.9.200]) by sierra.onr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA26735; Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:00:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33CD96D4.45ECA9D1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:51:48 -0500 From: "The other G Man!" Organization: ? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Cloud CC: EEC-EFI List , diy_efi Subject: Re: an eec plan X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <9707170224.AA21112@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Tom Cloud wrote: > > what do most of us (with Fords) want? > > For myself, I'd like to be able to fiddle with all the > things I used to be able to do when it was carbs and > points. Actually, it's more fun now -- if one could > get to the software and knew what the hardware was. > Does anyone know the min and max values returned from sensors in terms of voltage? From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 08:10:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA05925; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:02:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA05920; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 04:02:41 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1326824; 17 Jul 97 9:02 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id IAA09828 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:55:36 +0100 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:55:36 +0100 Message-Id: <199707170755.IAA09828@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 11:27 16/07/97 -0500, you wrote: >>What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the >>fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure >>guage to the other side, so that fuel can never >>get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. >> >>Has anybody made one of these, and if so, how? >> >>Alternatively, would your average electric oil pressure >>sender unit survive the nasties of high octane unleaded? > >look in the Summit or Jegs catalog -- they sell isolators. > >also check out the pressure transducers in the Digi-Key >catalog (p. 454 in May-June). The Measurement Specialties >SS xducer costs ~ $85 and will work, but you're going to >have to have some electronics (i.e. op-amp signal >conditioning) to make it work > >Tom Cloud > Beware if using semicondutor type transducers (ie no stainless interface diaphragm), they often do not take kindly to being exposed to liquid petrol, the sensing element is often only protected by a silicone gel barrier. Sometimes you can get away with it - worth bearing in mind though. Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 13:06:43 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA06416; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:53:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA06411; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:53:18 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1422823; 17 Jul 97 13:42 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id NAA30961 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:42:02 +0100 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:42:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199707171242.NAA30961@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: Fw: injector flow rates Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 13:18 11/07/97 +0200, you wrote: >Here are some Values. All Fuel injectors are on one microfiche every bosch >dealer should have. The numbers are from 0 288 150 203 up to about 900. >So that would be too much to copy complete. Many injectors have the the >same parameters but different sizes, and some of them are for CH 20v3 Gas >or Heptane. >Hope this helps. >---------- >> Von: Rich Mauruschat >> An: DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >> Betreff: injector flow rates >> Datum: Donnerstag, 10. Juli 1997 10:25 >> >> Does anyone have details of flow rates (static and dynamic at specified >> pressure) for Bosch injectors? >> The part numbers I am particularly interested in are: > flow rate ccm/1000 cyc. p(bar) > (ccm/min) > >> 0 280 150 203 185 5.05 2.5 > 0 280 150 204 167 4.6 2.5 > 0 280 150 205 170 4.08 2.5 > 0 280 150 206 167 7.9 2.5 > 0 280 150 207 107 7.9 2.5 > 0 280 150 208 133 3.15 2.5 >> 0 280 150 209 167 3.96 2.5 > 0 280 150 210 133 3.15 2.5 >> 0 280 150 211 146 3.37 3.0 > 0 280 150 213 300 8.77 3.0 > 0 280 150 214 185 4.38 3.0 > 0 280 150 215 214 5.77 2.5 > 0 280 150 216 214 5.77 2.5 > 0 280 150 217 167 5.17 2.5 > 0 280 150 218 217 9.7 2.5 >> 0 280 150 219 167 4.95 2.5 > 0 280 150 220 146 3.45 3.0 > 0 280 150 221 149.6 (CH20v3) > 171 (Heptane) >> 0 280 150 227 >> 0 280 150 702 189 3.95 3.0 >> 0 280 150 703 149 3.1 3.0 >> 0 280 150 725 170 3.6 2.5 >> 0 280 150 727 131 4.1 2.5 >> 0 280 150 734 200 4.3 2.5 >> 0 280 150 744 214 7.1 2.5 >> A longer list would be great! >> >> Cheers, >> Richard > >Peter Rueb >s68558@stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de > Peter, Many thanks for this list, fantastic. I shall try to track down this microfiche in the UK, I was not aware of its existence, even having spoken to Bosch. Do you know how the dynamic test (ccm/1000cyc.) is defined - ie what is the 'ON' time for each cycle? Not even Bosch were able to explain this to me. Comparing the static flow and dynamic flow rates on this list, there are some large differences between some injectors eg. 0 280 150 215: 0 280 150 744; both have the same static flow but very different dynamic figures - different pull-in time perhaps? Any ideas welcome Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 13:28:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA06551; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:19:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from coins0.coin.missouri.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA06545; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:19:30 -0400 Received: from coinc0.coin.missouri.edu (coinc0 [198.209.253.6]) by coins0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA18486; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:19:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: by coinc0.coin.missouri.edu (8.8.5) id IAA09420; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:19:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:19:14 -0500 (CDT) From: Dan Stokes X-Sender: dstokes@coinc0 To: The other G Man! cc: Tom Cloud , EEC-EFI List , diy_efi Subject: Re: an eec plan In-Reply-To: <33CD96D4.45ECA9D1@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, The other G Man! wrote: > > Does anyone know the min and max values returned from sensors in terms > of voltage? > They're almost all 0 .. 5V. The only exception is some of the "digitial" information return .. mainly ignition signals and the like. If it has to go into an A to D its 0 to 5V -Dan From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 14:40:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA06744; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:28:06 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA06737; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:28:00 -0400 Received: from LMTAS_Net.lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA21416; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:27:35 -0500 Message-ID: <33CE2C05.759E@lmtas.lmco.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:28:21 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Organization: Lockheed Martin Tactical Aerospace Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: an eec plan References: <199707170900.JAA06004@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi You've hit the same nail I've wanted to hit right on the head. With all the OEM equipment floating around in salvage yards, I've wanted to use that as a parts well for EFI development. But since I'm a late '70's educated Mechanical Engineer, I have virtually no skills to offer without a lot of self study. Joe Boucher '70 RS/SS Camaro '81 TBI Suburban Bedford, TX From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 15:02:46 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA07127; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:53:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA07122; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:53:19 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA13140; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:52:31 -0500 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:52:31 -0500 Message-Id: <9707171452.AA13140@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: Fuel pressure guage isolator Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >>>What I am in need of is a device I can plumb into the >>>fuel rail, and hook a standard oil or air pressure >>>guage to the other side, so that fuel can never >>>get into to cabin, even if the feeder hose is cut. ... >>look in the Summit or Jegs catalog -- they sell isolators. >> >>also check out the pressure transducers in the Digi-Key >>catalog (p. 454 in May-June). The Measurement Specialties >>SS xducer costs ~ $85 and will work, but you're going to >>have to have some electronics (i.e. op-amp signal >>conditioning) to make it work ... >Beware if using semicondutor type transducers (ie no stainless interface >diaphragm), they often do not take kindly to being exposed to liquid petrol, >the sensing element is often only protected by a silicone gel barrier. >Sometimes you can get away with it - worth bearing in mind though. >Richard good point, but the unit I specified from Digi-Key is SS (see above) and is specified safe with solvents, etc Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 15:15:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA07169; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:06:11 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wrzx07.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA07164; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:06:06 -0400 Received: from stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (wrzn12.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de [132.187.1.194]) by wrzx07.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA05536 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:06:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from WRZN12/SpoolDir by stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (Mercury 1.32); 17 Jul 97 17:06:05 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by WRZN12 (Mercury 1.32); 17 Jul 97 17:05:39 +0200 Received: from user (132.187.248.27) by stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (Mercury 1.32) with ESMTP; 17 Jul 97 17:05:29 +0200 From: "Peter Rueb" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: 16V Eprom Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:55:28 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Message-ID: <2494F325572@stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Can anyone mail me the eprom readout of a Golf/Corrado etc. 2.0l 16V engine? I need to know the structure of the ignition table for our new 2.0l 16V/G60 engine, so i do not knock it to death :-). Thanks, Peter Rueb s68558@stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 16:25:16 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA07382; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:07:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from utkux4.utcc.utk.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA07376; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:07:20 -0400 Received: from Peds by utkux4.utcc.utk.edu with SMTP (SMI-8.6/2.7c-UTK) id MAA05899; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:05:17 -0400 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:05:17 -0400 Message-Id: <199707171605.MAA05899@utkux4.utcc.utk.edu> X-Sender: chrishil@unixpop.utcc.utk.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "Christopher E. Hill" Subject: Programming language Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hello, I am wondering what is the best language for doing engineering type work is. What I would like to have is the abilty to do basic multiplication, exponents, logs, inverse trig functions, and dot and cross product. I also would like to have the program run under windows, or at least DOS. Any and all help is appreciated!! Thanks, Christopher E. Hill--chill6@utk.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 17:03:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA07540; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:46:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from irvine.clubnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA07535; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:46:32 -0400 Received: from smeade.edm.net (irv1-ppp28.dial.clubnet.net [206.126.139.28]) by irvine.clubnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06635 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:45:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707171645.JAA06635@irvine.clubnet.net> From: "Steve Meade" To: Subject: Re: Programming language Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:45:48 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ---------- > From: Christopher E. Hill > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Programming language > Date: Thursday, July 17, 1997 9:05 AM > > Hello, > I am wondering what is the best language for doing engineering type > work is. What I would like to have is the abilty to do basic > multiplication, exponents, logs, inverse trig functions, and dot and cross > product. I also would like to have the program run under windows, or at > least DOS. Any and all help is appreciated!! > I think it depends largely on what you plan on "interfacing" your programs with. If you are just looking for a relatively easy to program environment (all languages can do complex math ['cept maybe Logo]) that let's you make DOS and Windows programs than I would spend $89 and get Borland Delphi 3.0. If you want to write stuff and compatibility with others' work is of utmost performance, than I'd go with Borland C Builder since it's more of the "standard." However, there is a steeper learning curve for C. > Thanks, > > Christopher E. Hill--chill6@utk.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Steve Meade smeade@deltanet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 17:07:33 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA07691; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:56:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail2.deltanet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA07683; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:56:29 -0400 Received: from najay2-pc (najay2-pc.nb.rockwell.com [129.172.195.161]) by mail2.deltanet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA05916; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:55:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970717095731.0092a220@mail.deltanet.com> X-Sender: najay@mail.deltanet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:57:31 -0700 To: diy_efi, EEC-EFI List From: George Najarian Subject: Re: an eec plan Cc: diy_efi, Bronco Group In-Reply-To: <9707170224.AA21112@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi What about replacing the 8061 and proprietary EPROM with a 68332 and flash? We can eliminate all of the uncertainty of the 8061, and are only left with reverse engineering the analog stuff (and writing EFI code, of course). This might be a more reasonable course of action, and avoid all the nasty copyright issues. I have heard of this being done to as least one EEC (please don't bug me for details ... I can't provide them). At 09:24 PM 7/16/97 -0500, Tom Cloud wrote: > >what do most of us (with Fords) want? > >For myself, I'd like to be able to fiddle with all the >things I used to be able to do when it was carbs and >points. Actually, it's more fun now -- if one could >get to the software and knew what the hardware was. > > >I propose: > > - a "generic" eec replacement .... one that plugs onto >the cable and takes inputs and gives outputs ... one where >the software is public domain (sorta like the efi-332 project) > > - I propose that it is most logically a modified eec-iv that >will accomplish this end > > >advantages: > > - you could do what I said above -- and get as sophisticated >as you wanted > > - if the software was public domain, the knowledge would >spread beyond our group(s) and the sophistication of performance >freeks, in general, would go up -- and that's a good thing, though >there will be whineys that will worry about so much knowledge >in the hands of "hot-rodders" > > - we'll actually finally be free to experiment and perfect >our vehicles like we want to -- and not be limited by someone >else's contraption -- no matter how well thought out -- that >will never quite do exactly what "I" want it to (plus >I'll only have myself to blame when it doesn't work ;-) > > >disadvantages: > > - replacement eec's will become very scarce 8^) > > - lotsa work to pull this together, including finding out >how all the little gizmos in different years and models >work so the software can be made to read them and so the >hardware can drive them > > - probably a major software project ?? (there's lots >of knowledge out there already) consider that, IMHO, >probably 80% of the code in the eec-iv is unrelated to >making your car "GO" -- it's probably related to the >"adaptive learning" (darn, *I* do that now) and diagnostic >features (and who knows what else) of the eec. Don't >get me wrong, I'd love to have all those things, but >they're not necessary. To get yourself way up the curve >of diminishing returns, all you really need is sensors >for rpm, tps and MAP. Then you need fuel maps or some >other way of modifying the fuel flow for specific engine >and hop-up configurations. That's just the software. >Obviously, the hardware would be more difficult -- but >we've already got an eec-iv. Now if only we could >know about the hardware in it and how to program it ??? > > - assuming that the hardware in the eec-iv is similar >enough across all models that we can find one or several >that will work for most applications (that could be >a daunting task in itself) we'd have to have basic code >that'd run the vehicle in at least a basic mode until >refinements could be made -- but consider that even a >MAF vehicle could have a SD program in it that just ignored >the MAF (the only serious problem I see with this would >be puffers) > > > >miscellaneous thoughts: > > - All I'm saying is that, given reasonable objectives, I >think we can crack the eec-iv and put our own code into >it and have a resultant that is superior to, and far less >expensive than, any aftermarket system (I'm not talking about >engine mods like heads and cams and stuff -- you'd have to do >those with any other system you bought). > > - This is possible using the GM controller (there's lots >of data on it and people who've already put it onto >Ford products, replacing the eec-iv -- and one I know >of (on diy-efi ... George, it's you, isn't it?) that swears >by this method) > > - heck, something like the efi-332 project controller >could be made to work > > - using a different controller would require either >cutting the connector off the harness or splicing into >it or finding a source for the eec connector > > > - a major point that would determine the feasability of >using the eec-iv as the workbench for this is > > - do all eec-iv's ( regardless of the model) use the > same, or similar, pinouts > > - how do different options (like MAF, etc) fit into > the connection scheme > > - how much variability is there in various sensors > ( like MAP, temp, tps, rpm pickoff, MAF, etc) and > actuators (like injectors and throttle bypass, etc) > ... can a single eec or other controller be reasonably > expected to read the inputs and control the outputs > of the diverse range of years and models and options > that exist in the Ford line ?? > >Now that I've posted the op-codes for the 8061/3 and there's >an assembler written, we can begin to get to work. Also, >remember that I've posted a collection of technical data >on the eec (and I've got a greatly revised and better version >that I've not had the time to finish that is "imminent" -- >that's what I said 6 months or so ago) > >A great help would be if some of the people who've pioneered >in this area, like Mike W. and others, would share a little more >(Mike's already shared a bunch) -- e.g. about the questions I >raise above (and, in particular, about the configuration of the >hardware, like the VLSI, and variations, etc on the eec and >in external hardware). > > - how different -- or similar -- are the various eec hardware >configurations ?? > > - is it unreasonable to expect to find one (or several) eec's >that could be programmed to accept data from a variety of >versions of sensors and to output to the same variety ? > > >We need a FAQ on the eec's and on the various sensors >and actuators. > >We will need a FAQ on software drivers that do various >functions > >Also, some of the members of these lists work for Ford. >If you know how we can ask corporate for help to accomplish >this, I think it'd help Ford, not hurt them. We're not >interested in pirating their code (though it is in the >boxes we own), but in playing with our expensive toys we >bought from them. > >I need your help to get this going .... anyone ? > > > ================================================ > THE END > ================================================ > >P.S. > >I'm not on fordnatics or any Mustang, Mercur, Lightning, >T-Bird, etc list -- only BigBroncos, eec-iv and diy-efi, >so if some of you, who are on those lists, would spread this >around, maybe we can get some action. > > > >FYI -- to join the eec-iv list (an unofficial subset of diy-efi) > > > =============== > >Subscription info is on the eec-iv web page at: > > http://eelink.umich.edu:80/~p-nowak/eec-efi/ > > >or e-mail the list admin, Paul Nowak, directly at > > Paul Nowak > > =============== > >for eec-iv info, check out: > > http://www.iaw.com/~aubertin/88mgt/eec-iv/eec-iv.htm > http://204.255.212.10/~jthorsse/eectest.html > >Tom Cloud > > George Najarian | '95 Ford Mustang GTS Cobra (14.07/100.81) najay@deltanet.com | '86 Ford Mustang GT Convertible (15.0/92) http://users.deltanet.com/~najay/ Team.Net (Solo II E/SP) Najay Engineering - Custom EEC reprogramming service available. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 17:32:08 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA07738; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:19:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA07733; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:19:30 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.158] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id aa333840 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:22:20 -0400 Received: by port158.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC92B3.A19C2F20@port158.tnt1.bignet.net>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:16:26 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC92B3.A19C2F20@port158.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: an eec plan Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:16:21 -0400 Encoding: 17 TEXT, 38 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, The other G Man! wrote: >> >> Does anyone know the min and max values returned from sensors in terms >> of voltage? >> >They're almost all 0 .. 5V. The only exception is some of the "digitial" >information return .. mainly ignition signals and the like. >If it has to go into an A to D its 0 to 5V >-Dan Except the oxygen sensor which is 0 to 1V, although typically the a/d used is a 0 to 5V a/d Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(AL1`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;FL"@P!0`O()`@!C: K P`U(@$; `@ 6PQP0@)V$3T')M+A\U+N\O_QM^22VP-C"&(!& !"!T;R!G0:#7"X!!D0.104&"1$$1 M!"!_,S!!D3. /6\^?S^/'!0M;D0`<$.?1*Y%-',G`V\\>'DN(#OQ*7,>P&AI MYQ%P-/)#(S%6'- '0!X0B0A@9V@?-71Y<$L@IS+Q-$ G$F$O)[!U$;"[)[ U M`6%#%DWB1VQ*!W!\($),8D&01U8&X%#$0/9B.X$1P"Y2446_'!0?/U\+D1*R M# -3O14Q`% Received: from chappy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA07769; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:40:55 -0400 Received: (from korn@localhost) by chappy.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id OAA17432 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:03:29 -0400 From: "Robert J. Korn" Message-Id: <199707171803.OAA17432@chappy.com> Subject: MSD fuel management sample pics ionline To: diy_efi Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:03:29 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199707171645.JAA06635@irvine.clubnet.net> from "Steve Meade" at Jul 17, 97 09:45:48 am Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Because of the number of request I got I Uploaded a few sample pictures to ftp://ftp.korn.net/pub/incoming/MSD1.GIF ftp://ftp.korn.net/pub/incoming/MSD2.GIF ftp://ftp.korn.net/pub/incoming/MSD3.GIF ftp://ftp.korn.net/pub/incoming/MSD4.GIF ftp://ftp.korn.net/pub/incoming/MSD5.GIF then go to http://www.msdignition.com and get a catalog for yourself........ If you need them emailed just ask. From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 18:09:24 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA07814; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:55:18 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wrzx07.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA07809; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:55:13 -0400 Received: from stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (wrzn12.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de [132.187.1.194]) by wrzx07.rz.uni-wuerzburg.de (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15780 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:55:02 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from WRZN12/SpoolDir by stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (Mercury 1.32); 17 Jul 97 19:55:02 +0200 Received: from SpoolDir by WRZN12 (Mercury 1.32); 17 Jul 97 19:54:48 +0200 Received: from user (132.187.248.133) by stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de (Mercury 1.32) with ESMTP; 17 Jul 97 19:54:43 +0200 From: "Peter Rueb" To: "DIY_EFI" Subject: Fw: Fw: injector flow rates Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:53:54 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Message-ID: <64FB728E@stud-mail.uni-wuerzburg.de> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Peter, > Many thanks for this list, fantastic. I shall try to track down this > microfiche in the UK, I was not aware of its existence, even having spoken > to Bosch. Do you know how the dynamic test (ccm/1000cyc.) is defined - ie > what is the 'ON' time for each cycle? Not even Bosch were able to explain > this to me. Comparing the static flow and dynamic flow rates on this list, > there are some large differences between some injectors eg. 0 280 150 215: > 0 280 150 744; both have the same static flow but very different dynamic > figures - different pull-in time perhaps? Sorry that i forgot to mention the pulse time. As far as i remember most of them were 2.5ms or 2.2ms. But there were differences. It is also on the microfiche mentioned as ti (time interval). All injectors beginning with 0 280 150 XXX are the same size and shape. There are some other injectors for mono jetronic etc. that begin with 0 280 YYY where y is different. So if you want to change your injectors for whatever reason stick to the same numbers. The dynamic values are also important. They depend on the engine. If you have a big engine with e.g 4 cylinders 2.0l and maximum rpm of 5.500 you have a relative small range you need to fit. Other example: Look at the injectors of a small, but charged engine like fiat uno turbo with 1.4l and maximum boost 0.7 bar, rpm up to 7000. Here you need a injector with a relative wide range from 1.4l idle up to 2.4l effective at full boost and rpm. So the static value is important for full load and rpm and the dynamic value is important for part load and idle. If your dynamic value is to high for the engine you get no smooth idle, very bad emissions or worst no idle at all. So the injectors have different sizes inside, other weights of needles, different angles of the needle heads, stronger coils inside and other resistance values. We had the same problem with our VW 1.8l G60 engine converted to 2.0l 16V/G60. The fuel ammount was to small and we now use a injector that is around 20 percent bigger in static and dynamic value. This seems to work. The knock table is the main problem now. So i think this method works as long as you make minor changes to your engine. But if you plan to adapt a turbo you need to calculate a bit more. Please correct me someone who really knows if i am wrong. Good luck. Peter From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 18:32:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA07918; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:19:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA07913; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:19:26 -0400 Received: by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net; id NAA09055; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:15:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(192.1.52.1) by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net via smap (V3.1.1) id xma008350; Thu, 17 Jul 97 13:08:12 -0500 Received: by exchange1.ixc-comm.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC92B3.6689CF00@exchange1.ixc-comm.net>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:14:47 -0500 Message-ID: From: John Hess To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" , "'Steve Meade'" Subject: RE: Programming language Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:15:38 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I know this one is going to draw a lot of flack; but, for years, I have used PowerBASIC (the old TurboBASIC before it was sold back to the originator). It is extremely powerful, has a built in assembler, and has some pretty good second and third party support. I have written applications to include communications interfaces, communications programs, database programs, marketing and sales, and accounting software. You are limited only by your own programming capabilities. My programs are highly structured (by preference...you can write stringy code if that is your desire). It handles object files written in other languages, including Paschal and C/C++. If you desire, you can use the old PCBASIC commands or learn all the commands included in the package for more advanced programming and structures. Write your own subs, functions, and libraries. You ARE NOT subject to the frustrations of the VERY regimented structure of the other high level languages; but, much of that structure is available should you desire it. I would say one should at least take a look at the modern BASICs before making any snide remarks about BASIC in general or BASIC programmers in specific. ---------- From: Steve Meade[SMTP:smeade@deltanet.com] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 11:46 AM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Programming language ---------- > From: Christopher E. Hill > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Programming language > Date: Thursday, July 17, 1997 9:05 AM > > Hello, > I am wondering what is the best language for doing engineering type > work is. What I would like to have is the abilty to do basic > multiplication, exponents, logs, inverse trig functions, and dot and cross > product. I also would like to have the program run under windows, or at > least DOS. Any and all help is appreciated!! > I think it depends largely on what you plan on "interfacing" your programs with. If you are just looking for a relatively easy to program environment (all languages can do complex math ['cept maybe Logo]) that let's you make DOS and Windows programs than I would spend $89 and get Borland Delphi 3.0. If you want to write stuff and compatibility with others' work is of utmost performance, than I'd go with Borland C Builder since it's more of the "standard." However, there is a steeper learning curve for C. > Thanks, > > Christopher E. Hill--chill6@utk.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Steve Meade smeade@deltanet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 18:56:23 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA08054; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:44:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA08049; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:44:16 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr12-dialup24.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01ILCHW4BH8099EZQS@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:39:41 EDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 14:35:29 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: 68HC11 EFI X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970717143529.00903ba0@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I've been observing for a while now, with occasional rude comments. I have started to undergo a design for a Motorola 68HC11E9 based EFI system, and I didn't see anything similar in the DIYEFI archives. Does anyone know offhand if I just overlooked some good leaching material? Or are the previous mentioning of this particular processor related to personal projects only? I'm looking to compare my idea with something that exists, even in on a theory basis, to make sure my thoughts are in the right direction. Thanks in advance, direct replys welcome of course ;) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 19:31:15 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA08250; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:16:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA08245; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:16:19 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12432; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id MAA03132; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:15:40 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: Tom Cloud cc: EEC-EFI List , diy_efi, Bronco Group Subject: Re: an eec plan In-Reply-To: <9707170224.AA21112@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi So Tom I don't disagree with what you desire it's just that maybe you could be more specific in what you want control over. I can only speak for myself (and unfortunately I think a majority of list members) that all I want is to make an EEC-IV work well on my application. Once I've got it programmed I plan on leaving it alone. You obviously want more than this. With the 'calibrator' looming on the horizon I feel it will do more than what I want and probably for most list members to. If there was no 'calibrator' then I'd be right in there with you. I really like the idea of making an EEC-IV FAQ. I'd love to help out on that. What can I do? Tough project Tom.......maybe using a GM ECU would be easier. Peter Fensk seens to have complete control over his TPI. later guy jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 19:31:55 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA08279; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:19:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA08274; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:19:39 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA12772; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id MAA03161; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:19:07 -0700 Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:19:07 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: The other G Man! cc: Tom Cloud , EEC-EFI List , diy_efi Subject: Re: an eec plan In-Reply-To: <33CD96D4.45ECA9D1@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, The other G Man! wrote: > > Does anyone know the min and max values returned from sensors in terms > of voltage? > The book by Probst goes through all of the sensors from 1981-1993. What in particular are you looking for? jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 17 23:54:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA09396; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 23:43:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mars.tecinfo.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA09391; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:43:27 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (d17.t1.tecinfo.com [208.143.106.145]) by mars.tecinfo.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA02740 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:43:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:43:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707172343.SAA02740@mars.tecinfo.com> X-Sender: gmd@mail.tecinfo.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: "George M. Dailey" Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Well, it seems as if the EFI SBC delivers a wide range of fuel economy 12 - 25mpg. I like Peter F's milage, so I'm going to adjust the timing to 14 deg,. BTDC. What is the provable milage that the '89 TPI cars could routinely achieve? BTW Pete, what's your tire size and gear ratio? It may be time for me to change. Tom C. asked, "did the mpg drop occur suddenly or gradually ?? remember that a worn engine is less efficient and will get less mpg as it ages" It dropped right after I replaced my 350HT with the 700R4. No other changes period. No new big boned gilfriend, no doubble rations of food. It's strange that some people get 20mpg routine and others think "Not even the factory thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway." I have noticed that those that get the high milage swear by it as do those with the gas hoggs. The truth is an elusive quarry! Could the differences be due to just a few small things like a highly tuned EFI system? Back when I ran carbs, everybody got 8mpg city and 12 highway with a SBC and that's all I have to say about that. Thanks for the input gentlemen, I'll let you know what the timing does. GMD At 10:02 AM 7/16/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>> yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, >>> like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have >>> a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. >>> It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into >>> it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd >>> love to know how to get 15 mpg >>> >> >>My 88 Chevy fullsize p/u has the same gears and really tall tires. I get >>17 or better on the highway -- have sen 22 - and 12 to 15 around town. > >we're probably straying slightly from the forum content, >but 5600 pounds weighs more than your pu loaded to its >max (assuming it's a 1/2 ton) -- 4000# + 1000# = 5000#. >Imagine what mpg you'd get if you drove it fully loaded > ** all the time ** ..... and then add 600 more pounds, >plus occupants ... and other paraphernalia -- up to another >1/2 ton [the 'burban weighs 5600# ... dry, no fuel, no >occupants, no nothing -- not even floor mats ;-) ] > >Tom Cloud > > George M. Dailey gmd@tecinfo.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 00:59:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA09482; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:51:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mbox.ualr.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA09477; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 20:50:57 -0400 Received: from vn-gateway by UALR.EDU (PMDF V4.2-11 #15587) id <01ILCSSECQEO00009I@UALR.EDU>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:50:53 CDT Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:40:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) Subject: RE: Programming language To: diy_efi Message-id: <361355.7.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059 X-Envelope-to: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi -> NOT subject to the frustrations of the VERY regimented structure of -> the other high level languages; but, much of that structure is -> available should you desire it. Just like a mechanic has more than one wrench, a programmer should be able to handle more than one language. In many cases, the language itself is secondary to the specific *implementation* of the language, things like, "will this sucker generate code small enough to stuff in my EPROM?" or "how much does this sucker cost, anyway?" The latter figured heavily in my rejection of various microcontroller boards; I'm not going to "license" someone's proprietary tinyBASIC or tinyC implementation for $695 to run on their $89 board. Are they in the software business or the hardware business? Most modern language interpretations - even many COBOLs and FORTRANs - allow direct memory and port addressing, interrupts, and whatnot. The rest of them have been borrowing ideas from each other to the point that few implementations have the restrictions of the old days when the languages were "pure." ====dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us========================DoD#978======= can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation... ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT ==5.0 RX7 -> Tyrannosaurus RX! == SAE '82 == Denizens of Doom M/C '92== From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 01:49:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA09631; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:39:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA09626; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:39:02 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-12c13.direct.ca [204.174.245.189]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id SAA08159 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707180137.SAA08159@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi George It is a 4200 Lbs 85 GMC PU 2whl drive with 3.08 P235/15 mich radials..and yep the gas mileage stays at 20MPG now that is imperial .. Make sure your knock sensor works.. Ie don't carry it too far..With the stock chev cam this is prob too much advance, with the performer cam it is ok.. Everything is kinda complicated.. Ps you guys who use the #165 ECM with TPI should be giving STEVE at TTS a call. His package would be ideal for this.. CYall:peter Ps does anyone know how to use a ASTRA scanner. gRRRRRRR At 06:43 PM 7/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >Well, it seems as if the EFI SBC delivers a wide range of fuel economy 12 - >25mpg. I like Peter F's milage, so I'm going to adjust the timing to 14 >deg,. BTDC. What is the provable milage that the '89 TPI cars could >routinely achieve? BTW Pete, what's your tire size and gear ratio? It may be >time for me to change. > >Tom C. asked, "did the mpg drop occur suddenly or gradually ?? remember that >a worn engine is less efficient and will get less mpg as >it ages" > >It dropped right after I replaced my 350HT with the 700R4. No other changes >period. No new big boned gilfriend, no doubble rations of food. > >It's strange that some people get 20mpg routine and others think "Not even >the factory >thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway." I have noticed that those that >get the high milage swear by it as do those with the gas hoggs. The truth is >an elusive quarry! Could the differences be due to just a few small things >like a highly tuned EFI system? Back when I ran carbs, everybody got 8mpg >city and 12 highway with a SBC and that's all I have to say about that. > >Thanks for the input gentlemen, I'll let you know what the timing does. > >GMD > > >At 10:02 AM 7/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>> yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, >>>> like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have >>>> a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. >>>> It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into >>>> it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd >>>> love to know how to get 15 mpg >>>> >>> >>>My 88 Chevy fullsize p/u has the same gears and really tall tires. I get >>>17 or better on the highway -- have sen 22 - and 12 to 15 around town. >> >>we're probably straying slightly from the forum content, >>but 5600 pounds weighs more than your pu loaded to its >>max (assuming it's a 1/2 ton) -- 4000# + 1000# = 5000#. >>Imagine what mpg you'd get if you drove it fully loaded >> ** all the time ** ..... and then add 600 more pounds, >>plus occupants ... and other paraphernalia -- up to another >>1/2 ton [the 'burban weighs 5600# ... dry, no fuel, no >>occupants, no nothing -- not even floor mats ;-) ] >> >>Tom Cloud >> >> >George M. Dailey >gmd@tecinfo.com > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 02:32:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA09840; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:25:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA09835; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:25:11 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.23] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id la334163 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:28:39 -0400 Received: by port23.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC92FF.F4AE2320@port23.tnt1.bignet.net>; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:22:47 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC92FF.F4AE2320@port23.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: 68HC11 EFI Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:22:43 -0400 Encoding: 45 TEXT, 56 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Fred, I am working on a project using an hc11 chip and have been quietly contemplating a full engine management system. Maybe we can share some information. I know people who have the ability to answer many questions. Could you share your project scope (i.e. fuel only or spark and fuel)? I have some background in the algorithm development area, but I am still learning about hardware and software. Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ---------- From: Frederic Breitwieser[SMTP:frederic.breitwieser@mcione.com] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 2:35 PM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: 68HC11 EFI I've been observing for a while now, with occasional rude comments. I have started to undergo a design for a Motorola 68HC11E9 based EFI system, and I didn't see anything similar in the DIYEFI archives. Does anyone know offhand if I just overlooked some good leaching material? Or are the previous mentioning of this particular processor related to personal projects only? I'm looking to compare my idea with something that exists, even in on a theory basis, to make sure my thoughts are in the right direction. Thanks in advance, direct replys welcome of course ;) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C "`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F2&3 MO $>`' ``0````\```!213H@-CA(0S$Q($5&20```@%Q``$````6`````;R3 M(7E4(>7FA/[R$="C$T1%4U0`````'@`># $````%````4TU44 `````>`!\, M`0```!0```!B;W5G:'1O;D!B:6=N970N;F5T``,`!A"SRTG]`P`'$)($```> M``@0`0```&4```!&4D5$+$E!35=/4DM)3D=/3D%04D]*14-455-)3D=!3DA# M,3%#2$E004Y$2$%614)%14Y154E%5$Q90T].5$5-4$Q!5$E.1T%&54Q,14Y' M24Y%34%.04=%345.5%-94U1%34U!``````(!"1 !````@@4``'X%``#," `` M3%I&=;F)W6?_``H!#P(5`J@%ZP*#`% "\@D"`&-H"L!S970R-P8`!L,"@S(# MQ0(`<')"<1'B1YP%P(A$^ +470=PR!F=79L`R )\&<+@!] `X%A+F<3X GP!4!S M$[,N(+D%T&%Y'V <0!] 8P!P[0J%0A@)+4J\07 #QTF!/ FX!] *&DN9?LC8"&0 M90,@`B @806P)%;-"K%K'L,M(BD_)C(?$_4E(V(`T&L)P A@'N$+@-DGM&QG M!; H0&@<, VP.Q\P%:!P(K(*A23A82S]'U!U!4 <`RH!(;$G``K GP,`'=(& MX#.!$8%D=R3B;Q[2)2 !@#62+@J%"H5*R0=P($((8&=H*( ?EBLU`3@#0"@0 M9R(@="Z/.8$VO KT*# Q-#0"T3QI+3M3#- [4PM9,3;O"J #8!/0'7$M/?<* MASRK[PPP/78:\ -P.C[^/78;L_L:\@9Q8S? %A H0 /P!Y"!!)!;4TU44#H# M4(E"U"YB0UA ;6,E\?,L\ 6@;5T^GS^M!F ",)- WT'K5&@(<'-D(Z!-,U!* M(: @<#$W,U Q`#DY-R R.C,UF"!0349?/ZU4;TB?(4'K9&EY7PW :4 W!: A MH -P8BS@&1 N;WD>D&\M$\ A$"SP"8!U\S4 /P)\ TE=F4&"X9&XG(N$) MX!WQ>2? .QR2`)!M`Q *P3#E1$E^66+2"L >@1\P*E VO$2^;P>1*9%%T29D M-C!F$8"U,+)F&_%J': %0&\?,/)R%:!O:U^!)2,Q< 1POS12'H$0)2 %P/\6$"$!7X-7Y2; $:!=$QTE_P0@+7)L]E?E6A <,&K2')+_*(%& M$5@1(C$@<&1@,S!<5-\E(F4T)\ A$"'0> 0`7A#_,U R`0.@,.$,GP#?C:)$D\3#E!1#_. %04180'7 E M\C:\2G `<,9K!" PX6%D=@!P<,"_,U!\]'$A"U 3L"/A;$81CQ] ;V%0X1&A M(#LI-KSO5^5"OT/!5^5()3%$X0?@_D$S@ -P/9!G,2.!*"$ Received: from synunix.netsynergy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA12048; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 08:59:29 -0400 From: mcosta@netsynergy.com Received: from smtplink2.netsynergy.com (smtplink2.netsynergy.com [205.246.18.27]) by synunix.netsynergy.com (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id MAA11474 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:53:02 GMT Received: from cc:Mail by smtplink2.netsynergy.com id AA869241262; Fri, 18 Jul 97 08:53:41 EST Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 08:53:41 EST Encoding: 22 Text Message-Id: <9706188692.AA869241262@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re[2]: 68HC11 EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Fred And Jim, I as well am working on an hc11 efi system. I have plenty of hardware and software experince to make this happen, but not so much the algorithm side of things. I have some sample code people have sent me and am working getting the silicon systems engine interface peripheral to interface to an hc11 to cut down on the amount of work I need to do. Keep in touch and let me know if I can be of help. mike costa mcosta@netsynergy.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 14:36:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA14287; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:27:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from geocities.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA14282; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:27:39 -0400 Received: from mail.geocities.com (stamp.cowan.edu.au [139.230.127.130]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA01211 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707181422.HAA01211@geocities.com> X-Sender: dzorde@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: dzorde@geocities.com (dzorde) Subject: Re: 700R4 ratios Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Well, my 350 TPI Monaro (roughly 4000lbs) gets 13mpg in the city and 28mpg in the country. On the race track (as I found out last Saturday, circuit racing), the milage dropped to just under 4mpg. Quite a wide range I think. This car is running 14" 265/50 tyres, with 3.08 rear end and Toyota Supra 5 speed, timing is 4deg BTDC on 100 octane leaded to stop pinging (at 7deg BTDC it will ping). I don't feel so bad now about the economy after reading what others get. Dan dzorde@geocities.com >Hi George > >It is a 4200 Lbs 85 GMC PU 2whl drive with >3.08 P235/15 mich radials..and yep the >gas mileage stays at 20MPG now that is imperial .. > >Make sure your knock sensor works.. Ie don't carry it >too far..With the stock chev cam this is prob too >much advance, with the performer cam it is ok.. > >Everything is kinda complicated.. > >Ps you guys who use the #165 ECM with TPI should be >giving STEVE at TTS a call. >His package would be ideal for this.. > >CYall:peter > >Ps does anyone know how to use a ASTRA scanner. gRRRRRRR > >At 06:43 PM 7/17/97 -0500, you wrote: >>Well, it seems as if the EFI SBC delivers a wide range of fuel economy 12 - >>25mpg. I like Peter F's milage, so I'm going to adjust the timing to 14 >>deg,. BTDC. What is the provable milage that the '89 TPI cars could >>routinely achieve? BTW Pete, what's your tire size and gear ratio? It may be >>time for me to change. >> >>Tom C. asked, "did the mpg drop occur suddenly or gradually ?? remember that >>a worn engine is less efficient and will get less mpg as >>it ages" >> >>It dropped right after I replaced my 350HT with the 700R4. No other changes >>period. No new big boned gilfriend, no doubble rations of food. >> >>It's strange that some people get 20mpg routine and others think "Not even >>the factory >>thinks they get 15MPG city/ 24 MPG highway." I have noticed that those that >>get the high milage swear by it as do those with the gas hoggs. The truth is >>an elusive quarry! Could the differences be due to just a few small things >>like a highly tuned EFI system? Back when I ran carbs, everybody got 8mpg >>city and 12 highway with a SBC and that's all I have to say about that. >> >>Thanks for the input gentlemen, I'll let you know what the timing does. >> >>GMD >> >> >>At 10:02 AM 7/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >>> >>>>> yeah, but a '93 Continental doesn't weigh 5600 pounds dry, >>>>> like my '95 'burban with TBI and it probably doesn't have >>>>> a 350 CID engine. I'm running 16" tires and 3.73 rear end. >>>>> It's 4WD also. I record every drop of petrol that goes into >>>>> it and after 40,000 miles, many on good highway runs, I'd >>>>> love to know how to get 15 mpg >>>>> >>>> >>>>My 88 Chevy fullsize p/u has the same gears and really tall tires. I get >>>>17 or better on the highway -- have sen 22 - and 12 to 15 around town. >>> >>>we're probably straying slightly from the forum content, >>>but 5600 pounds weighs more than your pu loaded to its >>>max (assuming it's a 1/2 ton) -- 4000# + 1000# = 5000#. >>>Imagine what mpg you'd get if you drove it fully loaded >>> ** all the time ** ..... and then add 600 more pounds, >>>plus occupants ... and other paraphernalia -- up to another >>>1/2 ton [the 'burban weighs 5600# ... dry, no fuel, no >>>occupants, no nothing -- not even floor mats ;-) ] >>> >>>Tom Cloud >>> >>> >>George M. Dailey >>gmd@tecinfo.com >> >> > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 16:29:15 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA15911; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:19:31 GMT Return-Path: Received: from freenet5.afn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA15905; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:19:28 -0400 Received: from presario (ppp-09-ts10.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.206.179]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.5/AFN-1.0) with SMTP id MAA27134 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970718161535.00b9d08c@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn14222@pop3.afn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:15:35 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Chief Subject: Re: Fiat woes Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 06:09 PM 7/12/97 +1000, you wrote: >Hi Fiat owner (My deepest sympathy to you and your family Sir) > >Have you looked at your fuel filter yet? > >regards > >alex > >Non-fiat owner Yes, new fuel filter. Key on fuel pressure 40 psi, idle about 30 psi. Ed Hilker aka "Chief" 84'SS - 700R4 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 16:29:19 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA15906; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:19:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from freenet5.afn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA15899; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:19:25 -0400 Received: from presario (ppp-09-ts10.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.206.179]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.5/AFN-1.0) with SMTP id MAA27126 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970718161533.00bd5978@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn14222@pop3.afn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:15:33 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Chief Subject: Re: Fiat woes Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 06:09 PM 7/12/97 +1000, you wrote: >Hi Fiat owner (My deepest sympathy to you and your family Sir) > >Have you looked at your fuel filter yet? > >regards > >alex > >Non-fiat owner Yes, new fuel filter. Key on fuel pressure is 40 psi. Idle pressure is 30 psi. Ed Hilker aka "Chief" 84'SS - 700R4 From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 17:07:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA16719; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:59:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from denmark.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA16714; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:59:14 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max1-cy-ca-38.earthlink.net [204.119.165.63]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA09283 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 09:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33CFA115.3D41@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:00:05 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Aftermarket stand-alone systems Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi My project vehicle (a Volvo w/B230FT engine) uses a Bosch LH-Jetronic system for fuel management and a Bosch electronic ignition system, both of which are adequate for stock applications and mild performance tuning. I have already stretched the above packages to their limits, though, and will need to step up to a stand-alone system that will give me the room I need for future expansion and tuning requirements. I've been reading up a bit on a several stand-alone efi/ignition systems, such as Electromotive's TEC-II, Accel's DFI, Haltech, and Motec. Of all these, I only have relatively complete information on the TEC-II. To install it, though, I'd have to replace most of the existing Bosch sensors with GM ones and I don't want to do that. I would prefer to find a stand-alone system that will adapt itself to the Bosch equipment already in place. Based on what I've been able to determine so far, it appears that Haltech may be the way to go for my application. I'm wondering, though, if one of the others might also be a viable option? I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has replaced a Bosch pulsed efi & electronic ignition system with a stand-alone one. -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 18:08:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA16915; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:58:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.us.dell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id NAA16910; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:58:28 -0400 Received: from ccmail2.dell.com (ccmail2.us.dell.com [143.166.233.35]) by ns1.us.dell.com (8.8.5/DELL-INET-4-17-97) with SMTP id LAA05621; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:58:27 -0600 (GMT) Received: by ccmail2.dell.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA20300; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:52:40 -0500 Date: 18 Jul 97 12:52 CDT X400-Trace: us*attmail*dell computer; Arrival 18 Jul 97 12:52 CDT Action: Relayed Priority: normal P1-Message-Id: us*attmail*dell computer;0869248357/1909889290/1 Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text P1-Recipients: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu,owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Terry Sare To: diy_efi, owner-diy_efi-outgoing Message-Id: <@m400gw.dell.com> Subject: Re[2]: Programming language Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi --> NOT subject to the frustrations of the VERY regimented structure of --> the other high level languages; but, much of that structure is --> available should you desire it. [snip] ->Just like a mechanic has more than one wrench, a programmer should be ->able to handle more than one language. In many cases, the language ->itself is secondary to the specific *implementation* of the language, I have used various languages over the years and I have to agree with Dave, it is a matter of best fit for the project than which language is better. I prefer C but will use assembly, basic, etc. if that is a better fit. Little programming humor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Instructions for "Shooting Yourself in the Foot" in various computer languages and systems/interfaces ============================================================================ C: You shoot yourself in the foot. C++: You accidentally create a dozen instances of yourself and shoot them all in the foot. Providing emergency medical assistance is impossible since you can't tell which are bitwise copies and which are just pointing at others and saying, "That's me, over there." FORTRAN: You shoot yourself in each toe, iteratively, until you run out of toes; then you read in the next foot and repeat. If you run out of bullets, you continue anyway because you have no exception-handling routine. Modula-2: After realizing that you can't acutally accomplish anything in this language, you shoot yourself in the head. LISP: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which youshoot yourself in the appendage which holds... COBOL: USEing a COLT 45 HANDGUN, AIM gun at LEG.Foot, THEN place ARM.HAND.FINGER on HANDGUN.TRIGGER and SQUEEZE. THEN return HANGUN to HOLSTER. CHECK whether shoelace needs to be retied. BASIC: Shoot yourself in the foot with water pistol. On big systems, continue until entire lower body is waterlogged. Virtual BASIC: You'll shoot yourself in the foot, but you'll have so much fun doing it that you won't care. FORTH: Foot in yourself shoot. APL: You shoot yourself in the foot; then spend all day figuring out how to do it in fewer characters. Pascal: The compiler won't let you shoot yourself in the foot. HyperTalk Put the first bullet of the gun into foot left of leg of you. Answer the result. UNIX: % ls foot.c foot.h foot.o toe.c toe.o %rm *.o rm: .O: No such file or directory % ls % Paradox: Not only can you shoot yourself in foot, your users can, too. Motif: You spend days writing a UIL description of your foot, the trajectory, the bullet, and the intricate scrollwork on the ivory handles of the gun. When you finally get around to pulling the trigger, the gun jams. Apple System 7: Double click the gun icon and a window giving a selection for guns, target areas, plus ballon help with medical remedies, and assorted sound effects. Click shoot button and small bomb appears with note "Error of type 1 has occurred." DOS (all versions): You finally found the gun, but can't locate the file with the foot for the life of you. -------- (Additional languages/interfaces found later) --------- Ada: If you are dumb enough to actually use this language, the United States Department of Defense will kidnap you, stand you up in front of a firing squad, and tell the soldiers, "Shoot at his feet." Algol: You shoot yourself in the foot with a musket. The musket is aesthetically fascinating, and the wound baffles the adolescent medic in the emergency room. APL (alternate): You hear a gunshot, and there's a hole in your foot, but you don't remember enough linear algebra to understand what happened. Assembly: You crash the OS and overwrite the root disk. The system administrator arrives and shoots you in the foot. After a moment of contemplation, the administrator shoots himself in the foot and then hops around the room rabidly shooting at everyone in sight. DBase: You squeeze the trigger, but the bullet moves so slowly that by the time your foot feels the pain you've forgotten why you shot yourself anyway. DBase IV version 1.0: You pull the trigger, but it turns out that the gun was a poorly-designed grenade and the whole building blows up. sh, csh, etc.: You can't remember the syntax for anything, so you spend five hours reading man pages before giving up. You then shoot the computer and switch to C. Smalltalk: You spend so much time playing with the graphics and windowing system that your boss shoots you in the foot, takes away your workstation, and makes you develop in COBOL on a character terminal. PL/I: You consume all available system resources, including all the offline bullets. The DataProcessing&Payroll Department doubles its size, triples its budget, acquires four new mainframes, and drops the original one on your foot. Prolog: You attempt to shoot yourself in the foot, but the bullet, failing to find its mark, backtracks to the gun which then explodes in your face. SNOBOL: You grab your foot with your hand, then rewrite your hand to be a bullet. The act of shooting the original foot then changes your hand/bullet into yet another foot (a left foot). scheme: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds... ...but none of the other appendages are aware of this happening. English: You put your foot in your mouth, then bite it off. CLIPPER: You grab a bullet, get ready to insert it in the gun so that you can shoot yourself in the foot, and discover that the gun that the bullet fits has not yet been built, but should be arriving in the mail _REAL_SOON_NOW_. SQL: You cut your foot off, send it out to a service bureau and when it returns, it has a hole in it, but will no longer fit the attachment at the end of your leg. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 18:44:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA16977; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:36:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA16972; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:36:21 -0400 Received: from [204.254.121.61] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id oa334582 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:39:48 -0400 Received: by port61.tnt1.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC9387.9BA3C2C0@port61.tnt1.bignet.net>; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:33:50 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC9387.9BA3C2C0@port61.tnt1.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi'" Subject: hc11 EFI code Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:33:46 -0400 Encoding: 8 TEXT X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Peter, Does the C EFI code you placed on the list actually run an engine? Can you give any other details about it? TIA Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 18:59:15 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA17011; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:50:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pop01.netaddress.usa.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA17006; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:50:47 -0400 From: volvo.v70@usa.net Received: (qmail 21205 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jul 1997 18:48:20 -0000 Received: from 195.198.42.176 by www03 via web-mailer (2.1) on Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:34:11 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:34:11 To: diy_efi Subject: Hi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I'm new.. Just testing.. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 19:04:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA17023; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:59:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from pop01.netaddress.usa.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA17018; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 14:59:09 -0400 From: volvo.v70@usa.net Received: (qmail 26008 invoked by uid 0); 18 Jul 1997 18:57:25 -0000 Received: from 195.198.42.176 by www01 via web-mailer (2.1) on Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:10:11 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 12:10:11 To: diy_efi Subject: Hi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I'm new just testing... From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 20:15:57 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA17207; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:06:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA17202; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:06:53 -0400 Received: from LMTAS_Net.lmtas.lmco.com by cliffy.lmtas.lmco.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA09821; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:07:19 -0500 Message-ID: <33CFCD27.15FF@lmtas.lmco.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 15:08:07 -0500 From: Joe Boucher Organization: Lockheed Martin Tactical Aerospace Systems X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: an eec plan References: <199707180900.JAA10346@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > > > > What about replacing the 8061 and proprietary EPROM with a 68332 and flash? > We can eliminate all of the uncertainty of the 8061, and are only left with > reverse engineering the analog stuff (and writing EFI code, of course). > This might be a more reasonable course of action, and avoid all the nasty > copyright issues. > > I have heard of this being done to as least one EEC (please don't bug me > for details ... I can't provide them). > Allow me to reword what you said. Somebody took an Original Equipment Manufacturer (GM or Ford) fuel injector computer, yanked out the processor, reverse engineered the analog circuits, put in another processor and some form of eprom or eeprom chip with the program and injector map? If so, cool. Joe ("You go first") Boucher '70 Camaro '81 TBI Suburban Bedford, TX From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 18 20:53:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA17356; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:43:09 GMT Return-Path: Received: from feta.direct.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA17351; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 16:43:05 -0400 Received: from pfenske (van-as-07b03.direct.ca [204.174.249.115]) by feta.direct.ca (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id NAA00754 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707182043.NAA00754@feta.direct.ca> X-Sender: pfenske@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: peter paul fenske Subject: Re: hc11 EFI code Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Jim The code is HC11 asm. Not C. Yes it runs a motor. Barely. It was my first foray. NOP the section that talks to the PC and it will run a lot better.. Of course you still have to build the io drivers.. Actually now I have reverse engineered GM so much this seems a little primitive. Still it is much like ACCEL is using so it should work.. GL:peter At 02:33 PM 7/18/97 -0400, you wrote: >Peter, > Does the C EFI code you placed on the >list actually run an engine? Can you give any >other details about it? > >TIA >Jim Boughton >boughton@bignet.net > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 19 02:10:46 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA18424; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 01:59:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from m4.c3.telstra-mm.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA18419; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 21:59:05 -0400 Message-Id: <199707190159.VAA18419@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: from m5.c3.telstra-mm.net.au by m4.c3.telstra-mm.net.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA034307800; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:03:21 +1000 Received: from eps1.c3.telstra-mm.net.au (UNKNOWN230.c3.telstra-mm.net.au) by m5.c3.telstra-mm.net.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA094397800; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 12:03:20 +1000 From: "Allan Hines" To: Subject: Re: Aftermarket stand-alone systems Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 13:03:17 +1000 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I have been involved with all the systems you mentioned and the Motec M4 would be the best choice if your budget allows. It will accept all the Bosch sensors including the standard crank trigger and can drive any injector you care to use. The Motec will allow you to modify your engine right through to outright race specifications. I found that the Motec software is the easiest to use and by far the most comprehensive. ( you can get a demo version of M4 software at http://www.motec.com ). For more information on Motec check out these sites: http://www.motec.com http://www.motec.com.au Regards, Allan Hines ---------- > From: Michael McBroom > To: diy_efi > Subject: Aftermarket stand-alone systems > Date: Saturday, 19 July 1997 3:00 AM > > My project vehicle (a Volvo w/B230FT engine) uses a Bosch LH-Jetronic > system for fuel management and a Bosch electronic ignition system, both > of which are adequate for stock applications and mild performance > tuning. I have already stretched the above packages to their limits, > though, and will need to step up to a stand-alone system that will give > me the room I need for future expansion and tuning requirements. > > I've been reading up a bit on a several stand-alone efi/ignition > systems, such as Electromotive's TEC-II, Accel's DFI, Haltech, and > Motec. Of all these, I only have relatively complete information on the > TEC-II. To install it, though, I'd have to replace most of the existing > Bosch sensors with GM ones and I don't want to do that. I would prefer > to find a stand-alone system that will adapt itself to the Bosch > equipment already in place. Based on what I've been able to determine > so far, it appears that Haltech may be the way to go for my > application. I'm wondering, though, if one of the others might also be > a viable option? I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has replaced a > Bosch pulsed efi & electronic ignition system with a stand-alone one. > > -- > Best, > > Michael McBroom > > '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) > '88 765T 154k > _________________________________________________________________________ > > Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of > Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= > of Language http://mcbrooms.com > California State University, Fullerton > _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 19 03:52:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA18549; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 03:45:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from statler.cc.wwu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA18541; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:45:04 -0400 Received: by statler.cc.wwu.edu (5.65/WWU-M1.0/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA10090; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:45:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:45:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth To: diy_efi Subject: Injector driver board- bosch and siemens injectors In-Reply-To: <199707190159.VAA18419@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hello all- First of all, I want to thank everyone out there for my help with this project ( the staged injection for a VW golf using a 68HC11F1) without your help, I would never have tried. I tested the injector driver board today. Using a National Semiconductor LM 1940 voltage regulator and LM1949 injector drivers. I set the timer to 1.5 ms with a 15k resistor and a .1uf cap. Tried 0.09, .18 and .47 ohm resistors for the sensing. I tried this with chrysler injectors- two styles which are bosch and siemens. Bosch are 280155703 12.3 ohm, like the siemens/deka which is a 4612402. The bosch goes in an early (pre- production) neon, I can't imagine they changed injectors, but who knows? The siemens deka comes from a 1995 or 1996 3.3liter grand voyager SE van. Canadian spec, I think. With the 0.47 ohm resistor, i got the 4:1 difference in injector current from peak to hold for both injectors. I didn't with the 0.18 and 0.09 ohm resistance. The .18 ohm had about a 2:1 current difference. The 0.09 sense resistor wound up running the injectors saturated. ( I think) In a discussion with my electronics prof. ( he was helping me) he seemed to think that a notch in the initial voltage rise was the beginning of injector motion. By varying the pulse width to the injector, we determined audibly that the injector didn't open if this point (typically 1.08 to 1.2ms, and about 550 ma) wasn't crossed. We figured that the opening current for both the injectors was about 550 ma, the Bosch opened about 0.1 ms faster. Perhaps the pintle is smaller with less inertia? I don't know. At this point without actually observing fluid out of the injectors, we canot be absolutely sure that the injectors are holding open after the initial opening surge. By dialing the duty cycle up to 96-99% the injectors became quiet ( and the scope was showing some high voltages) below 13% duty cycle at 100.0 Hz ( ~1.3 ms pulse) they were quiet. I can only assume that they were "holding". My question- does anyone have a definitive bench test for injector that doesnt involve flowing fuel thru the injector? Thanks, Seth Allen (graduating soon (again) and looking for an automotive job) From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 19 03:54:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA18572; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 03:49:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from denmark.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA18567; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 23:49:37 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max1-cy-ca-02.earthlink.net [204.119.165.27]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA10417 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33D03987.3F4B@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 20:50:31 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Bosch Injector Data? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi folks, I'm looking for the data for the following Bosch injector: 0 280 150 151 If you happen to have it on one of your lists, I'd sure appreciate the info. Which leads me to ask, does anybody know if the complete Bosch microfiche is posted anywhere on the 'net? -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 04:44:19 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA20619; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 04:33:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from rtt.ab.ca.ccinet.ab.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA20614; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:33:51 -0400 Date: Sat, 19 Jul 97 22:08:12 PDT From: Fred Zillinger Subject: To: diy_efi X-Mailer: Chameleon - TCP/IP for Windows by NetManage, Inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 06:39:53 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA20815; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 06:31:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from icefog.polarnet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA20810; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 02:31:40 -0400 Received: from jwebb (p6-ip175.polarnet.com [204.119.15.175]) by icefog.polarnet.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id WAA19666 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:31:33 -0800 (ADT) Message-ID: <33D1B13B.8C4D94F7@polarnet.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:33:32 -0800 From: Webb X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Programming language X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <199707171605.MAA05899@utkux4.utcc.utk.edu> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Christopher E. Hill wrote:
Hello,
        I am wondering what is the best language for doing engineering type
work is.  What I would like to have is the abilty to do basic
multiplication, exponents, logs, inverse trig functions, and dot and cross
product.  I also would like to have the program run under windows, or at
least DOS.  Any and all help is appreciated!!

Thanks,

Christopher E. Hill--chill6@utk.edu

   You're going to get lots of people telling you to use "C". I can't disagree - exactly. C has the advantage that not only can you write windows, and DOS (and most other platform) code, but there are small C compilers that let you write the code for any microcontroller projects in it - (see the 332 archives on this board http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/efi332/ )

C has a long learning curve. If you aren't a computer type, it may be more than you want
to deal with.

A program called "labview"    http://digital.natinst.com    has the shortest learning curve I know. Programming is all done visually, no text code at all, and it is oriented toward a lab environment (objects like oscilloscopes, voltmeters etc can be included with a drag and drop)

The easiest compiler with any actual code is probably Borland's Delphi. It lets you write fast, tight code, and the front end of the program is mostly drag and drop.

If you insist on C, then there is a new program available from Borland called C++ Builder that is exactly like Delphi, but  uses C++ instead of pascal (or Basic) as it's underlying language. It generates windows based C code, and does all the hard stuff (the windows interface) for you. It is available for a free trial download at - http://www.borland.com\/download.html

By the way, your concern about what functions the language "has" is largely irrelevant. If you want a cross product for example, you just get a library of engineering functions (or write your own) - they are available in the public domain from many FTP servers and BBS's (my favorite is JDR microdevices BBS- Gigs of C and pascal stuff). Then your program just referances that library file with a #include (C) or a "Uses" (Pas) statement, and you have what amounts to a customized language, with everything you want in it. From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 13:58:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA21601; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 13:51:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from random.tpgi.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA21596; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:51:49 -0400 Received: from justin (gou-ppp-077.tpgi.com.au [203.29.140.77]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA06433 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:51:09 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33D0DB28.701F@tpgi.com.au> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:20:08 +1000 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: Switch Chips Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hello again anyone intrested in twin table EPROM's???? Quad's maybe???? if so ill post what ive come up with and would love some feedback maybe we can better the design.... Justin From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 13:58:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA21582; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 13:48:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from random.tpgi.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA21577; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:48:30 -0400 Received: from justin (gou-ppp-077.tpgi.com.au [203.29.140.77]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id XAA06294 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:47:49 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33D0DA60.31C4@tpgi.com.au> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:16:48 +1000 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: eproms via lpt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hello to anyone with an open mind Just a thought (another one) Has anyone had a go at rippin out the eprom from a memcal and replacing it with a eeprom and interfacing it with the lpt of a pc??? maybe edit a bin file then just plugin and send it on down rather than erasing the eprom ......rather than removing the memcal at all???? can you see what im getting at???? Id love to hare from anyone on this topic Justin From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 15:34:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA21743; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:20:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maila.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA21738; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:20:41 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09892 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:17:14 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t2o44p32.telia.com [195.198.42.92]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA26006 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:20:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707201520.RAA26006@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: Subject: Aftermarket stand-alone systems Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:23:12 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dear Mr McBroom I have developed a injectionsystem specialy for the B230ET/FT engine. Its an seperate system that works with 1-2 or 4 injectors depending on est. output. There is 8 adjustable pots. one for boostdepending, and one pot. for each 1000/rpm (1000/rpm - 7000/rpm) The system is well tested and have performed 420Hp from a B254 engine (marine 2,5 crank) with 4 injectors and original LH-Jetronic (1,9 bar boost). I recomend 1-2 injectors installed before the throtle for power output up to 360Hp and for more power You must install 1injector for each cylinder. The best manifold is the latermanifold but with bigger throtlebody. If You whant more information about Your systems capabilitys send me the ECUnr. Best Regards Stefan 18Years with Volvo > > From: Michael McBroom > > To: diy_efi > > Subject: Aftermarket stand-alone systems > > Date: Saturday, 19 July 1997 3:00 AM > > > > My project vehicle (a Volvo w/B230FT engine) uses a Bosch LH-Jetronic > > system for fuel management and a Bosch electronic ignition system, both > > of which are adequate for stock applications and mild performance > > tuning. I have already stretched the above packages to their limits, > > though, and will need to step up to a stand-alone system that will give > > me the room I need for future expansion and tuning requirements. > > > > I've been reading up a bit on a several stand-alone efi/ignition > > systems, such as Electromotive's TEC-II, Accel's DFI, Haltech, and > > Motec. Of all these, I only have relatively complete information on the > > TEC-II. To install it, though, I'd have to replace most of the existing > > Bosch sensors with GM ones and I don't want to do that. I would prefer > > to find a stand-alone system that will adapt itself to the Bosch > > equipment already in place. Based on what I've been able to determine > > so far, it appears that Haltech may be the way to go for my > > application. I'm wondering, though, if one of the others might also be > > a viable option? I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has replaced a > > Bosch pulsed efi & electronic ignition system with a stand-alone one. > > > > -- > > Best, > > > > Michael McBroom > > > > '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) > > '88 765T 154k > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of > > Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= > > of Language http://mcbrooms.com > > California State University, Fullerton > > _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 15:46:24 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA21770; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 15:35:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailc.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA21765; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 11:35:21 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by mailc.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA02806 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:35:19 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t2o44p32.telia.com [195.198.42.92]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA09096 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:35:18 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707201535.RAA09096@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: Subject: SV: Bosch Injector Data? Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:38:50 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailc.telia.com id RAA02806 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dear Mr McBroom This injector is standard installed in Volvos B200-B230 engine 300 cm3/min (when systempressure is 3,0bar) Resistans 16 Ohm (+1 -1) Data is collected from originalmanual. Best Regards Stefan ---------- > Fr=E5n: Michael McBroom > Till: diy_efi > =C4mne: Bosch Injector Data? > Datum: den 19 juli 1997 05:50 >=20 > Hi folks, >=20 > I'm looking for the data for the following Bosch injector: >=20 > 0 280 150 151 >=20 > If you happen to have it on one of your lists, I'd sure appreciate the > info. Which leads me to ask, does anybody know if the complete Bosch > microfiche is posted anywhere on the 'net? >=20 > --=20 > Best, >=20 > Michael McBroom >=20 > '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) > '88 765T 154k=20 > _______________________________________________________________________= __ >=20 > Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of=20 > Research Interest: Biological Origins =3DMcBroom's Camera Blueboo= k=3D > of Language http://mcbrooms.com > California State University, Fullerton =20 > _______________________________________________________________________= __ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 17:35:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA21941; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:22:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA21936; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 13:22:52 -0400 Received: from NB01167825.internetMCI.COM (usr2-dialup9.mix1.WillowSprings.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01ILGM1W1CQE9BVDQ2@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 13:20:58 EDT Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:21:48 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Switch Chips In-reply-to: <33D0DB28.701F@tpgi.com.au> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi, DIY_EFI Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19970720012148.006a3e34@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >anyone intrested in twin table EPROM's???? Quad's maybe???? I am. Post here or directly to me, and I'll be your best friend Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 21:50:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA22326; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:33:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA22321; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:33:17 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDMZR2R5000BU@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:30 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:32:31 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:32:22 +1200 Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:32:14 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: Aftermarket stand-alone systems In-reply-to: <33CFA115.3D41@earthlink.net> To: diy_efi Message-id: <1BE21C91171@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All > I've been reading up a bit on a several stand-alone efi/ignition > systems, such as Electromotive's TEC-II, Accel's DFI, Haltech, and > Motec. Of all these, I only have relatively complete information on the > TEC-II. To install it, though, I'd have to replace most of the existing > Bosch sensors with GM ones and I don't want to do that. I would prefer > to find a stand-alone system that will adapt itself to the Bosch > equipment already in place. There is a local company here in Christchurch Link that make a very good aftermarket kit it does fuel/ignition and works happly with bosch sensors. If you want more info mail me Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 22:06:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA22343; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:48:14 GMT Return-Path: Received: from random.tpgi.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA22338; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 17:48:07 -0400 Received: from justin (gou-ppp-076.tpgi.com.au [203.29.140.76]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA27502 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 07:47:24 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33D14AC5.499B@tpgi.com.au> Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 09:16:21 +1000 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI Subject: SWITCHED EPROMS Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------71623CF27701" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------71623CF27701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi to those who are intrested in eprom switching i have found the these to work fine in the P4 and also in TECH-1 cartridges. if you use the same base code and only change the data of the bin file ( say spark and fuel ) then they will switch while the car is running ok , but if they are totaly different well they give a bit of a cough and hickup but you can still switch while running but youll have to keep the revs up. please if anyone has more ideas on how to make em better please mail me Justin --------------71623CF27701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Chips" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Chips" EPPROM PINOUTS 28/32 PIN ________________________ ____ _____ Vpp--|1 * 28|--Vcc Chip Size = 256K-bit A12--| |--A14 00000 - 07fff A7--| |--A13 A6--| |--A8 A5--| |--A9 A4--| 256K-bit |--A11 A3--| |--OE A2--| |--A10 A1--| |--CE/PGM A0--| |--O7 O0--| |--O6 O1--| |--O5 O2--| |--O4 Gnd--|__________|--O3 ____ _____ A15--|1 * 28|--Vcc Chip Size = 512K-bit A12--| |--A14 00000 - 0ffff A7--| |--A13 A6--| |--A8 A5--| |--A9 A4--| 512K-bit |--A11 A3--| |--Vpp/OE A2--| |--A10 A1--| |--PGM/CE A0--| |--O7 O0--| |--O6 O1--| |--O5 O2--| |--O4 GND--|__________|--O3 ____ _____ Vpp--|1 * 32|--Vcc Chip Size = 1M-bit A16--| |--PGM 00000 - 1ffff A15--| |--NC A12--| |--A14 A7--| |--A13 A6--| 1M-bit |--A8 A5--| |--A9 A4--| |--A11 A3--| |--CE A2--| |--A10 A1--| |--CE A0--| |--O7 O0--| |--O6 01--| |--O5 02--| |--O4 GND--|__________|--O3 --------------71623CF27701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Chips-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Chips-2" TWIN TABLE SWITCHABLE EPROMS 28/32 PIN Juz! _____________________________________________________________________________ / / SW1 ____ _____ | | Vpp--|1 * 28|--Vcc-----+ | A12--| |--A14--------+ A7--| |--A13 | Chip size 256K-bit A6--| |--A8 | 00000 - 07fff A5--| |--A9 | A4--| 256K-bit |--A11 | 2 x 128K-bit A3--| |--OE \ 00000 - 03fff = Chip Low A2--| |--A10 / 04000 - 07fff = Chip Hi A1--| |--CE/PGM \ R1 A0--| |--O7 / Chip Low = A14 O0--| |--O6 | to Gnd Via R1. 00000 - 03fff O1--| |--O5 | O2--| |--O4 | Chip Hi = 5V at A14 +----Gnd--|__________|--O3 | 04000 - 07fff | | +----------------------------------+ R1 = 4.7K (Pull down resistor for Chip Low 00000 - 03fff) / SW1 +-------/ ------------------+ | ____ _____ | +----A15--|1 * 28|--Vcc--+ Chip Size = 512K-bit | A12--| |--A14 00000 - 0ffff | A7--| |--A13 | A6--| |--A8 2 x 256K-bit / A5--| |--A9 00000 - 07fff = Chip Low \ A4--| 512K-bit |--A11 08000 - 0ffff = Chip Hi / A3--| |--Vpp/OE \ A2--| |--A10 Chip Low = A15 / A1--| |--PGM/CE to Gnd Via R1. 00000 - 07fff | A0--| |--O7 | O0--| |--O6 Chip Hi = 5V at A15 | O1--| |--O5 08000 - 0ffff | O2--| |--O4 +----GND--|__________|--O3 R1 = 4.7K (Pull down resistor for Chip Low 00000 - 07fff) \ +-- \-------------------------------------+ | SW1 ____ _____ | | Vpp--|1 * 32|--Vcc-----+ +------------+---A16--| |--PGM Chip Size = 1M-bit | A15--| |--NC 00000 - 1ffff | A12--| |--A14 | A7--| |--A13 2 x 512K-bit | A6--| 1M-bit |--A8 00000 - 0ffff = Chip Low / A5--| |--A9 10000 - 1ffff = Chip Hi R1 \ A4--| |--A11 / A3--| |--CE Chip Low = A16 \ A2--| |--A10 to Gnd Via R1.00000-0ffff / A1--| |--CE | A0--| |--O7 Chip Hi = 5V at A16 | O0--| |--O6 10000 - 1ffff | 01--| |--O5 | 02--| |--O4 R1 = 4.7K (Pull down +---GND--|__________|--O3 resistor for Chip Low 00000 - 0ffff) --------------71623CF27701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Chips-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Chips-4" QUAD TABLE SWITCHABLE EPROMS 28/32 PIN Juz! _____________________________________________________________________________ / / SW1 / / SW2 Chip Size = 256K-bit ____ _____ | | | | 00000 - 07fff Vpp--|1 * 28|--Vcc---+--|---+ | A12--| |--A14------+ | SW1 SW2 Address A7--| |--A13------|------+ 1 - Off Off 00000 - 01fff A6--| |--A8 | | 2 - Off On 02000 - 03fff A5--| |--A9 | | 3 - On Off 04000 - 05fff A4--| 256K-bit |--A11 | | 4 - On On 06000 - 07fff A3--| |--OE \ \ A2--| |--A10 / / R1 = 4.7K (Pull down A1--| |--CE/PGM \ R1 \ R2 resistor for SW1) A0--| |--O7 / / O0--| |--O6 | | R2 = 4.7K (Pull down O1--| |--O5 | | resistor for SW2) O2--| |--O4 | | +----Gnd--|__________|--O3 | | 4 x 64K-bit | | | +--------------------------------+------+ \ \ SW1 \ \ SW2 | | | | +---------------------------+ | | | | ____ _____ | | | +----A15--|1 * 28|--Vcc----+---|--+ Chip Size = 512K-bit | A12--| |--A14--------+ 00000 - 0ffff | A7--| |--A13 | | A6--| |--A8 | SW1 SW2 Address | A5--| |--A9 | 1 - Off Off 00000 - 03fff | A4--| 512K-bit |--A11 | 2 - Off On 04000 - 07fff / A3--| |--Vpp/OE / 3 - On Off 08000 - 0bfff \ A2--| |--A10 \ 4 - On On 0c000 - 0ffff /R1 A1--| |--PGM/CE / R2 \ A0--| |--O7 \ R1 = 4.7K (Pull down / O0--| |--O6 / resistor for SW1) | O1--| |--O5 | | O2--| |--O4 | R2 = 4.7K (Pull down +----GND--|__________|--O3 | resistor for SW2) | | +----------------------------------+ 4 x 128K-bit \ / SW1 \ / SW2 +--------------------------+ | | | | | ____ _____ | | +---+--|---+ Vpp--|1 * 32|--Vcc--+ +---------|------A16--| |--PGM Chip Size = 1M-bit | +--+---A15--| |--NC 00000 - 1ffff | | A12--| |--A14 | | A7--| |--A13 SW1 SW2 Address | | A6--| 1M-bit |--A8 1 - Off Off 00000 - 07fff / / A5--| |--A9 2 - Off On 08000 - 0ffff \ R1 R2 \ A4--| |--A11 3 - On Off 10000 - 17fff / / A3--| |--CE 4 - On On 18fff - 1ffff \ \ A2--| |--A10 / / A1--| |--CE R1 = 4.7K (Pull down | | A0--| |--O7 resistor for SW1) | | O0--| |--O6 | | 01--| |--O5 R2 = 4.7K (Pull down | | 02--| |--O4 resistor for SW2) +------------+---GND--|__________|--O3 4 x 256K-bit --------------71623CF27701-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sun Jul 20 23:31:34 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA22482; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:16:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailb.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA22477; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:16:30 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by mailb.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA20155 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:16:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t1o44p27.telia.com [195.198.42.27]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id BAA29911 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:16:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707202316.BAA29911@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: Subject: SV: Switch Chips Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:19:45 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailb.telia.com id BAA20155 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dear Justin Iam interested please let me know Best regards Stefan ---------- > Fr=E5n: Justin Albury > Till: DIY_EFI > =C4mne: Switch Chips > Datum: den 19 juli 1997 17:20 >=20 > Hello again >=20 > anyone intrested in twin table EPROM's???? Quad's maybe???? >=20 > if so ill post what ive come up with and would love some feedback >=20 > maybe we can better the design.... >=20 > Justin From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 01:15:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA22597; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:06:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from coyote.rain.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA22592; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:05:58 -0400 Received: from Default (169-47-142.ipt.aol.com [152.169.47.142]) by coyote.rain.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA01885 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 18:06:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707210106.SAA01885@coyote.rain.org> X-Sender: muwtj1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: muwtj1@wiu.edu (Bill Jenkins) Subject: EFI332 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Let me first clarify my message with the fact that I am new to this list. Although I have had considerable training in the more mundane aspects of fuel injection, I have little or no knowledge of the electronics side, beyond basics. For that reason, I will apoligize. I am currently a College student at Western Illinois University, majoring in Manufacturing Engineering. I have a few questions for the more knowledgable. They relate to the EFI-332 project, the mailing list of which I am also a member, but fearful to ask questions there, because the list specifically states technical discussion only. Is the EFI-332 project currently functional at all? I cannot ascertain whether it is a functional system yet by the posts I have been getting. And I don't have time to search through months of archives. I also would like to know what sort of successes people in this group have had with fuel injection systems, particularly on Chevrolet V-8 engines. Again, let me say that I am sorry for posting such an apparently rediculous set of questions, but I feel that is the only way that I shall find out. Thank you. Bill Jenkins muwtj1@wiu.edu http://www.wiu.edu/users/muwtj1 The Chevrolet Beretta Home Page From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 01:21:54 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA22682; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 01:15:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailhub.omen.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA22677; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 21:15:26 -0400 Received: from wattsgl (pbg@ttyE22.quokka.omen.com.au [203.15.92.23]) by mailhub.omen.com.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA08465 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:15:16 +0800 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:15:53 -0000 Message-ID: <01BC95B6.B07E8780@geoff@omen.com.au> From: Geoff Watts To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: eproms via lpt Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:15:52 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4008 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I've successfully used an eprom emulator kit that I bought from Dick Smith Electronics here in West Australia about 2 years ago with the factory ECU in my car when I was trying to mess around with fuelling. The emulator worked just fine, but my changes didn't in the beginning :) Isn't a memcal (GM?) just an eprom and some ram in a custom package or somthing? - i've never worked with any gm/delco stuff. geoff -----Original Message----- From: Justin Albury [SMTP:jalbury@tpgi.com.au] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 1997 3:17 PM To: DIY_EFI Subject: eproms via lpt Hello to anyone with an open mind Just a thought (another one) Has anyone had a go at rippin out the eprom from a memcal and replacing it with a eeprom and interfacing it with the lpt of a pc??? maybe edit a bin file then just plugin and send it on down rather than erasing the eprom ......rather than removing the memcal at all???? can you see what im getting at???? Id love to hare from anyone on this topic Justin From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 02:30:24 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA22766; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:21:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from freenet5.afn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA22761; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:21:27 -0400 Received: from gator-computer (ppp-08-ts19.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.73.156]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.5/AFN-1.0) with SMTP id WAA11119 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:21:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970721022316.0070f3ec@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn14222@pop3.afn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 22:23:16 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Chief Subject: FIAT SUCCESS :-) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Thanks for all the suggestions on my Fiat problem. It turned out to be a bad TPS. I'll find a replacement at the j-yard. I will probably replace the O2 sensor also as the car was sitting for 4 years or so. It was very exciting to drive the thing out of the garage finally! The car runs pretty well considering sitting 4 years. Has decent power too. Leaks a little oil from the gaskets. What I need to do now is make a list of what to check/overhaul before hitting the road since the car has been sitting for 4 years. I would assume this: Change oil and filter (already have done) Change fuel filter (already have done) Injector cleaner with gas (how often, how much?) New timing belt Change tranny fluid Rear end fluid? New tires (old ones dry rotted) Check brakes (replace fluid?) All hoses All belts I welcome any other suggestions so I don't miss anything? Once again, thanks to all all on the list for bearing with my questions. Your advice has helped greatly. I have learned a little about FI in the process. Ed Hilker aka "Chief" 84'SS - 700R4 From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 03:14:59 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA22833; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 03:06:47 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA22828; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 23:06:44 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du259-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.5]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA19402 for ; Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:06:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970720200849.00a46e80@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 20:08:51 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re: EFI332 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 06:06 PM 7/20/97 -0700, you wrote: > Let me first clarify my message with the fact that I am new to this list. >Although I have had considerable training in the more mundane aspects of >fuel injection, I have little or no knowledge of the electronics side, >beyond basics. For that reason, I will apoligize. I am currently a College >student at Western Illinois University, majoring in Manufacturing >Engineering. I have a few questions for the more knowledgable. They relate >to the EFI-332 project, the mailing list of which I am also a member, but >fearful to ask questions there, because the list specifically states >technical discussion only. Don't beleive that for a second, anything that you have, just spit it out. If it is out of bounds, you will get many flames telling you so ;-) Is the EFI-332 project currently functional at >all? I cannot ascertain whether it is a functional system yet by the posts >I have been getting. And I don't have time to search through months of >archives. Long and short answer, no. Some parts are more functional then others, but as yet no entire system. I also would like to know what sort of successes people in this >group have had with fuel injection systems, particularly on Chevrolet V-8 >engines. Again, let me say that I am sorry for posting such an apparently >rediculous set of questions, but I feel that is the only way that I shall >find out. Thank you. Can't help much here, but, these are the questions that the EFI332 and DIYEFI list are for. Sandy From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 05:12:04 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA23064; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 04:52:17 GMT Return-Path: Received: from student.canberra.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA23059; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 00:52:12 -0400 Received: from by student.canberra.edu.au (8.7.5/8.7.5) id OAA02053; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:52:08 +1000 (EST) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:52:08 +1000 (EST) From: Bruno! To: diy_efi Subject: Throttle body sizing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi everyone, I have a 2lt twin cam and am considering rigging up a quad throttle efi manifold for it. Firstly, I will be using the throttle bodies from stromberg carburettors to save the pain of trying to fabricate a tb from scratch. I can get these in sizes up to 40mm (i think 1 9/16") at a reasonable price. The intake runners which will mount on the head, and hold the tbs, will be made using aluminium tube, the internal diameter of which i can get in different sizes quite readily. again, i could get this in 40mm, or slightly smaller, or even larger (i think 50mm od & 3mm wall gives 44mm). The 44 mm option would be a little silly, as the tb being 40mm would be a restriction (compared to the runner). My question is whether 40mm is too large for this type of engine. It currently gives about 130hp, and is my mild-mannered street car. Driveability is my main criterion here. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Bruno. (b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au) Early to bed, Early to rise Makes a man or woman miss out on the night life -Morphine From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 06:24:39 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA23172; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 06:11:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ozemail.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA23167; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 02:11:38 -0400 From: avos@cochlear.com.au Received: from oznet02.ozemail.com.au (oznet02.ozemail.com.au [203.2.192.124]) by ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA14561 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:11:31 +1000 (EST) Received: from cplmail.ozemail.com.au (cplmail.ozemail.com.au [203.15.164.233]) by oznet02.ozemail.com.au (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA04512 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:11:28 +1000 (EST) Received: from ccMail by cplmail.ozemail.com.au (SMTPLINK V2.11.01) id AA869465585; Mon, 21 Jul 97 16:07:27 EST Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 16:07:27 EST Message-Id: <9706218694.AA869465585@cplmail.ozemail.com.au> To: diy_efi Subject: ECU Turbo Control Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I am trying to work out how the boost map works in a Subaru EJ20 engine. I have the addresses of the boost maps (There is two for some reason). I have created some 3-D surface graphs of these maps, which yield nice smooth surfaces which indicate that I am on the right track, but I can't quite work out how they work. My only method of testing is to burn eproms and try new boost maps, but this is slow. I have altered the boost by altering these maps, but have not been able to successlfully get the boost I want yet. I suspect that the x and y axis of the maps might be combinations of engine load, revs, throttle postions, Map sensor output etc, but testing to work it out is slow. Does anyone have an idea of what these axis might be? Has anyone modified boost maps in ECU maps in different cars, and has an idea of parameters might commonly be used for the boost map axis'? It is also possible that both maps alter the boost, or one controls overshoot, or anything!! Adrian avos@cochlear.com.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 14:01:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA23819; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:45:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from freenet5.afn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA23814; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:45:53 -0400 Received: from presario (dialup58.afn.org [128.227.163.186]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.5/AFN-1.0) with SMTP id JAA16757 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:45:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19970721134152.006e43e8@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn14222@pop3.afn.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:41:52 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Chief Subject: Re: L-jet problem Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 05:54 PM 2/26/97 +1300, you wrote: >The problem is that your injectors have stuck. What you want to do is pull them out and individually apply 12 volts across them. You should here a audible click. Do not hold the 12V supply on continuously as you will over heat them and possibly burn them out. If this does not work them take all 4 injectors down to an injector specialist to get them cleaned and freed up. If you do get them freed up then it is a good idea to soak them in some sort of injector cleaner for a while as what causes them to stick is the fuel left in them has dried up leaving a varnish type substance. > >What are the specs on your spyder. I have both a Fiat 124 sport(currently selling) and a Fiat 128 with a roof cut. I plan to buy a fiat 850 coupe and fit a suzuki G13B motor (1300-16 valve) into the back. I am looking at using a PC notebook style fuel injection system and do a little hoon car. At the very least it should be fun. > >Paul > >>The problem is the thing starts and then dies immediately. I have >>determined the only fuel it is getting is from the cold-start injector. >>Unplug it and the car doensn't fire at all. Hi Paul. It has been a long time since this message was sent but I got the Fiat running. Verdict - bad TPS. I did the 12V thing to free up the injectors also. Now to get the thing road ready. Thanks for all your help. How are you doing on your current Fiat projects? Ed Hilker aka "Chief" 84'SS - 700R4 From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 14:15:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA23847; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:04:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA23842; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:04:17 -0400 Received: by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net; id IAA05249; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:00:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from unknown(192.1.52.1) by ixc_fw0.ixc-comm.net via smap (V3.1.1) id xma004288; Mon, 21 Jul 97 08:56:25 -0500 Received: by exchange1.ixc-comm.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) id <01BC95B4.E30B6D00@exchange1.ixc-comm.net>; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:02:59 -0500 Message-ID: From: John Hess To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Aftermarket stand-alone systems Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:04:55 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi IF I would like more info. Please post it. I am sure that ALL on this board would be interested. I wouldn't be here, otherwise. Haven't talked to a New Zealander in a long time (since the Vietnam "Conflict" days). Used to see quite a few of you in Thailand. >---------- >From: Simon Quested[SMTP:questeds@whio.lincoln.ac.nz] >Sent: Sunday, July 20, 1997 4:32 PM >To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu >Subject: Re: Aftermarket stand-alone systems > >Hi All > >> I've been reading up a bit on a several stand-alone efi/ignition >> systems, such as Electromotive's TEC-II, Accel's DFI, Haltech, and >> Motec. Of all these, I only have relatively complete information on the >> TEC-II. To install it, though, I'd have to replace most of the existing >> Bosch sensors with GM ones and I don't want to do that. I would prefer >> to find a stand-alone system that will adapt itself to the Bosch >> equipment already in place. > >There is a local company here in Christchurch Link that make a very >good aftermarket kit it does fuel/ignition and works happly with >bosch sensors. >If you want more info mail me > >Cheers > >Simon >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) > Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support > Centre for Computing and Biometrics > LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND > Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 15:08:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA23913; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:54:35 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hal-pc.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA23908; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 10:54:32 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (max1-202.hal-pc.org [209.16.24.202]) by hal-pc.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA28420; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:54:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33D39440.52AE@hal-pc.org> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:54:24 -0700 From: "Robert W. Hughes" Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jalbury@tpgi.com.au CC: diy_efi Subject: Re: SWITCHED EPROMS References: <336824B9.3024@tpgi.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi, Justin, it's me again. I saw your circuits for the multi-table eproms and would like to make a suggestion. Instead of a pull-down resistor and a switch to Vcc use a pull-up resistor to Vcc and a switch to ground. Switch open=1, switch closed=0. This is a better match to circuit requirements (inputs are usually current sinking) and gives a more reliable system with less chance of noise problems. -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering Houston, Texas From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 18:34:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA24330; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:20:37 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wolfenet.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA24325; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:20:34 -0400 Received: from gonzo.wolfenet.com (orin@gonzo.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.2]) by wolfenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31126 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Received: (from orin@localhost) by gonzo.wolfenet.com (8.8.3/8.7) id LAA18744 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:20:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707211820.LAA18744@gonzo.wolfenet.com> Subject: Re: ECU Turbo Control To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 11:20:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9706218694.AA869465585@cplmail.ozemail.com.au> from "avos@cochlear.com.au" at Jul 21, 97 04:07:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > I am trying to work out how the boost map works in a Subaru EJ20 > engine. I have the addresses of the boost maps (There is two for some > reason). I have created some 3-D surface graphs of these maps, which > yield nice smooth surfaces which indicate that I am on the right > track, but I can't quite work out how they work. My only method of > testing is to burn eproms and try new boost maps, but this is slow. I > have altered the boost by altering these maps, but have not been able > to successlfully get the boost I want yet. I suspect that the x and y > axis of the maps might be combinations of engine load, revs, throttle > postions, Map sensor output etc, but testing to work it out is slow. > Does anyone have an idea of what these axis might be? Has anyone Engine load, MAP sensor output, current boost are all essentially the same thing and probably aren't an input. One axis is almost undoubtably RPM. I'd guess the other is intake air temperature, though throttle position is a possibility. > modified boost maps in ECU maps in different cars, and has an idea of > parameters might commonly be used for the boost map axis'? It is also > possible that both maps alter the boost, or one controls overshoot, or > anything!! Yes, I have modified the Audi 5000 boost maps. Boost is controlled by a spring and the computer. The computer only increases boost if the throttle is more than 2/3 open and engine temperature is OK and the engine isn't at the limits of the knock control. The map is RPM based only and is desired boost for a given RPM. Are you sure those are boost maps and not ignition timing? The Audi computer has two ingition timing maps, one for premium fuel and one for regular. It switches between them depending on engine knock. The axes for these maps are RPM and MAP. Orin. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 19:31:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA24448; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:18:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA24443; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:18:38 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr7-dialup44.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01ILI4CXVASU9BVGW9@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:16:42 EDT Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 09:09:01 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: SWITCHED EPROMS In-reply-to: <33D14AC5.499B@tpgi.com.au> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970721090901.00906e90@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >i have found the these to work fine in the P4 and also in TECH-1 >cartridges. if you use the same base code and only change the data of I liked your design, however I wish to submit the following comments. Instead of using SPST switches directly attached to the E/Eproms, its important to make them bounceless, whereby when switching, the real millisecend on/off/on condition assiociated with mechanical switches is therefor eliminated. I have a schematic in my archive I can share, when I get home, not a problem. Then, after making the switch bounceless, you use either a Flip-Flop circuit or four inverters to control the enable lines of the two eeproms, which you are correct, can only have the data set information changed, not the actual code. A friend of mine who designed embedded systems for a career, has such a system that actually allows CODE changes... this is because, the main loop of the program always starts at one particular address, on both chips, then the processor switches the enable pins on the EEprom, not a mechanical switch. The mechanical switch controls one of the inputs on the processor, when when it hits the beginning of the loop, where the code is the same in both chips, will enable or disable the appropriate eeprom. Just some thoughts :) Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 19:34:27 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA24484; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:25:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv1.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA24479; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:25:10 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr7-dialup44.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01ILI4CXVASU9BVGW9@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:19:59 EDT Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 14:59:01 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: eproms via lpt In-reply-to: <33D0DA60.31C4@tpgi.com.au> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970721145901.00901ce0@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Has anyone had a go at rippin out the eprom from a memcal and replacing >it with a eeprom and interfacing it with the lpt of a pc??? maybe edit >a bin file then just plugin and send it on down rather than erasing the >eprom ......rather than removing the memcal at all???? Yes Justin, I see exactly what you are getting at. I had ordered a while back a LPT-based eeprom programmer, however it was mis-delivered and eventually out of fustration I cancelled the order. If you are running a GM based V8 ECM, there are some shareware/freeware programs on the internet that allows you to tweek the settings, however I have not tested this or played with it. All GM, late model Ford, and some of the foreign vehicles have some kind of interface installed... however one needs to create an interface between the proprietary ECM interface and the PC to grab and manipulate the data. In the Buick Grand National world, "TurboLink" comes to mind, and is an excellent product. I checked out the demo version, and the screens offers a lot of information. Hope that helped. Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 20:59:21 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA24635; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:45:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from coyote.rain.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA24630; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 16:45:12 -0400 Received: from Default (171-21-142.ipt.aol.com [152.171.21.142]) by coyote.rain.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA27708 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 13:45:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707212045.NAA27708@coyote.rain.org> X-Sender: muwtj1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: muwtj1@wiu.edu (Bill Jenkins) Subject: Re: eproms via lpt Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > >If you are running a GM based V8 ECM, there are some shareware/freeware >programs on the internet that allows you to tweek the settings, however I >have not tested this or played with it. > >In the Buick Grand National world, "TurboLink" comes to mind, and is an >excellent product. I checked out the demo version, and the screens offers >a lot of information. > >Frederic Breitwieser >Homebrew Automotive Mailing List >Bridgeport, CT 06606 >http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html >1989 AG Hummer 4-Door >1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental >2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car > > > Where might I get the demo versions of these products? I would like to play with them a bit. Bill Jenkins muwtj1@wiu.edu http://www.wiu.edu/users/muwtj1 The Chevrolet Beretta Home Page From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 21 23:40:35 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA24934; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:26:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from out2.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA24929; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:26:37 -0400 Received: from 486desktop (slip129-37-161-157.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.157]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA109544 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:26:35 GMT Message-ID: <33D3F12C.2B78@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:30:52 -0400 From: Clare Snyder Organization: Snyder Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: analog or KISS EFI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliable injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It Simple S- well - you know!! From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 00:26:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA24995; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:14:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from coyote.rain.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA24990; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:14:19 -0400 Received: from Default (171-30-152.ipt.aol.com [152.171.30.152]) by coyote.rain.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA20974 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:14:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707220014.RAA20974@coyote.rain.org> X-Sender: muwtj1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: muwtj1@wiu.edu (Bill Jenkins) Subject: Best? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I have a test engine that I'd like to assemble an EFI system for, preferably PFI. It is a Chevrolet V-8, currently on a test stand. I'd like to know people's opinions on the best system (among those available on the internet) that I could hope to assemble by myself. Yes, I can drag my computer to the garage if necessary (to hook up serial ports or whatever). It doesn't have to be fully functional as in cold-start performance, but I'd just like to play around with one. Bill Jenkins muwtj1@wiu.edu http://www.wiu.edu/users/muwtj1 The Chevrolet Beretta Home Page From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 00:30:39 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA25022; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:19:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA25017; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 20:19:49 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du219-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.219]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA02707 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:19:18 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970721172155.00a4edb0@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:21:57 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 07:30 PM 7/21/97 -0400, you wrote: >Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliable >injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It >Simple S- well - you know!! > You could scavange one off old BMW's, VW's they have the Bosch mechanical, but I'm not sure how to tune these. Not much electronics, but a slew of odd mechanical things. I have such a system on a BMW 6 cyl, and it works pretty well (most of the time!). Sandy From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 01:40:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA25152; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 01:29:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from irvine.clubnet.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA25147; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:29:02 -0400 Received: from smeade.edm.net (irv1-ppp12.dial.clubnet.net [206.126.139.12]) by irvine.clubnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA20978 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707220129.SAA20978@irvine.clubnet.net> From: "Steve Meade" To: Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 18:28:58 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ---------- > From: Sandy > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI > Date: Monday, July 21, 1997 5:21 PM > > At 07:30 PM 7/21/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliable > >injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It > >Simple S- well - you know!! > > > > You could scavange one off old BMW's, VW's they have the Bosch mechanical, > but I'm not sure how to tune these. Not much electronics, but a slew of odd > mechanical things. I have such a system on a BMW 6 cyl, and it works pretty > well (most of the time!). > That's a good idea. There are a lot of 318i ('84 and '85) cars in j-yards with L-Jetronic injection systems. They put out about 100HP. Sandy, why didn't you just upgrade to a lter Motronic system for your 6-cyl BMW? The Motronic system works the best and can be easily chipped. > Sandy =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Steve Meade smeade@deltanet.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 02:21:16 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA25229; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:11:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA25224; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:11:08 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDP7CDBW000BN@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:09 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:11:45 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:11:35 +1200 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:11:33 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI In-reply-to: <33D3F12C.2B78@ibm.net> To: diy_efi Message-id: <1DACAFB5482@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi I'm running a 9 year old 2nd hand analog efi unit. it has 7 wires to run everything and a pressure line to a map sensor. It has 7 pot's to set the on time for the injectors over the rev range (as long as you don't want to rev higher than 7000rpm) and another pot that does the job of the acclerator pump. Very simple. Here in NZ the only way you can get one of these is 2nd hand. It works fine but I'm saving my dollars for a Link as it controls fuel/ignition/revs and the boost solenoid (I left the spec sheet at home I'll bring it in tomorrow) Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 02:21:22 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA25223; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:11:00 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA25218; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:10:57 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du192-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.5.192]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA32156 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:10:25 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970721191302.00a46860@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 19:13:05 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Sandy, why didn't you just upgrade to a lter Motronic system for your >6-cyl BMW? The Motronic system works the best and can be easily chipped. Why tamper with something that works, I'm pretty lazy and the mech injection is working pretty well. Not something that I haven't thought about, even just getting a 325i engine with the whole deal... Sandy From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 02:34:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA25264; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:23:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA25256; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:23:40 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDP7U6KH000BN@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:21 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:23:51 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:22:01 +1200 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:21:34 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI In-reply-to: <3.0.32.19970721172155.00a4edb0@mail.wgn.net> To: diy_efi Message-id: <1DAF77B779C@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All > You could scavange one off old BMW's, VW's they have the Bosch mechanical, > but I'm not sure how to tune these. Not much electronics, but a slew of odd > mechanical things. I have such a system on a BMW 6 cyl, and it works pretty > well (most of the time!). Have a look at : http://www.students.tut.fi/~hezekiel/bosch.htm It explans Bosh k jetronic Hessu has used this system on his 1600cc 4cyl and now it's on a 2.8 liter V6 Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 02:59:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA25298; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:44:38 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA25293; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:44:35 -0400 Received: from [206.67.96.196] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ia336422 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:47:56 -0400 Received: by port196.k56flex.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC9627.8DB56EA0@port196.k56flex.bignet.net>; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:43:48 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC9627.8DB56EA0@port196.k56flex.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Throttle body sizing Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 22:43:14 -0400 Encoding: 65 TEXT, 72 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Bruno, To determine the proper size for an intake system you need to know what rpm you intend to run to. Typically the intake system is sized to create a theoretical flow velocity of ~60m/s. Not perfect, but a good starting point. I would use the area of the throttle body throats minus the area taken up by the throttle shaft (probably ~10mm dia.) So if you are using a 40mm t/b you should have 1257mm^2 area. If you remove the area of a 10mm shaft you should be left with approx. 860mm^2. Next, take your cylinder displacement of 500cc/cyl and the rpm (I'll use 6000rpm) and calculate the airflow rate for an intake event. This should be 6000rpm x 500cc x 2 / (60sec/min) = 100000 cc/sec divide 100000cc/s by 8.6cm^2 and you get ~116m/s. This would be a little high which would likely cause power to drop off early. If you want to run a lower peak power speed then you would have to recalculate accordingly. By the way, the mysterious 2 in the equation is because the intake event only gets a half of a rev to occur. Also, the value of the area used should be the average intake area and can be made higher by using trumpets (air horns, stacks, whatever!) that have a large taper. All of this also depends on cams, port flow coefficients, and so on. When you get to the point of tuning for length let me know :-) Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ---------- From: Bruno![SMTP:b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au] Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 10:52 AM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Throttle body sizing Hi everyone, I have a 2lt twin cam and am considering rigging up a quad throttle efi manifold for it. Firstly, I will be using the throttle bodies from stromberg carburettors to save the pain of trying to fabricate a tb from scratch. I can get these in sizes up to 40mm (i think 1 9/16") at a reasonable price. The intake runners which will mount on the head, and hold the tbs, will be made using aluminium tube, the internal diameter of which i can get in different sizes quite readily. again, i could get this in 40mm, or slightly smaller, or even larger (i think 50mm od & 3mm wall gives 44mm). The 44 mm option would be a little silly, as the tb being 40mm would be a restriction (compared to the runner). My question is whether 40mm is too large for this type of engine. It currently gives about 130hp, and is my mild-mannered street car. Driveability is my main criterion here. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Bruno. (b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au) Early to bed, Early to rise Makes a man or woman miss out on the night life -Morphine begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(C$"`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;FL"@P!0 M`O()`@!C: K M<@.@W'5P*3 C)"TG L M8BLR,W06$ 1@-E$L)K\*A2>Q)? R$' =(7CM M(G X)_$VT2X*A1M:!\ >>"D1'G,?,07 8WELUPN !($RL7,+46,3X GP`P5 M)[$U,#!C8R\_/P$>$1^A'/$@\0J%*$G^)R,`*],G\$"@(/$S`$$RW2+A8RN@ M);(L(VDHT";B-G(ELAWL92<@*Q-4:#\D82GF.J<\WQOP0O4@>/= A$G1$> O M,; G\!&P0-#[')$S`#TYD4NR)7! T$KQ\T@\,L!V:0VP2Y5,$C!2<#@N-F,V MTR&Q'S)G\Q' ,E$Q-B@41M,KA#L!WR7P/R M8@J%1N!G.[ @H/\BT%*!*Y,_ M(!Z0(Q$BX"OB[2K@=QUA(>%D'3$GH2? [26@@AX@600]<`T-\%H3+ &1!5@0J%0B,D5D#V M>3Y!'/%M$[(%$ A@!"#'$> +@!S397%U(,!=L+\>,4Y16G$KYD7J)Z!N(Q#? M"H5/H00@)? 1@&PGP#E37180=B'2)U!#\'(\S4'L;',;,!S3=@= "E LIO\L M8ROA'Z ZF"PC)R!%($^@_QY&+&-#A .@.P`*A0# 39&O4E(=83!A-'1T&P!M M'5#]+E$H1*$V( 6P`( I("I1G&-K; $@HD91Z%G2#T+ M`S\@,30T\ (`:?XM?7,,T'US"UE0``J@+4'Y*/$@+8 7"H=^RPPP?Y9Z1@-A M.H$>?Y8;PQKS(0!;4TU44#IB+DD`P')Z`'!O0!/ =:\-L"L1:,$[`')%("X) M@/1U+E/@78"_@!!38>_@(G<")P1D2P$\ C$"D@_RMA`Q #(#L!:H4L_0B0!""_`U(I MYP-AAN$JP"+@\LHYQ@:J,<(&8!H 40(N#_ M)<0;\*9J!0`@P!%P(G K8/]HPG6#'/ K\5XA'9($(# QVR'A-/,HG!!PH6Y8 M$!K0]#DO4 `B0V$I89G5)9']9'!N,A$=`B+0DX!(+4;0_R-G&P$ '&$GHE*DG!"LM@N 3.?_#= $D$ BK<1>H"=P09&U8?\# M$%619X +<2D@NU$KDZST_R1A7B$T\BD@!; IYC\@>B'](Q%S`, C``20P&)& M0VXD'T(QKN9 D#*1!' @)B#^,S*15D!"@:!@)R $('V _3*0*3S&LJ)]@"YP MP^$%,/]>XE#?'8$C`7.Q+L.K$CL`?RJB-//'*+ WIQ$BT%[3*/\%H&L0+&$A MPT%SLV/%@$@M_DTC(%Z@RR%>Y2"@$ _QU0 M)Z)W@1RAK'$%0)G58S$_O-(C$<3D`: (8 5 ,3/X,&AP<[0D85U0+G$KL/XM M`X&S@68R:N )X 5 I[']L:=$!1 G( &@`Q GB%1 M<2C@W<_HSQOA_BV+T"#PKQ$O!IEO"R@2LB\,`W^6Z\45,0#NP ````,`$! ` M`````P`1$ ````! ``C^6O % ``@P0.%F>C^6O $>`#T``0````4` ,``!213H@`````%1/ ` end From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 03:53:46 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA25384; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:42:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from out1.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA25379; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:42:23 -0400 Received: from 486desktop (slip129-37-161-153.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.153]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA170552 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:42:21 GMT Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 03:42:21 GMT Message-Id: <199707220342.DAA170552@out1.ibm.net> X-Sender: clsnyde@pop3.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: clsnyde@ibm.net (Clare Snyder) Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Hi > >I'm running a 9 year old 2nd hand analog efi unit. it has 7 wires to >run everything and a pressure line to a map sensor. It has 7 pot's to >set the on time for the injectors over the rev range (as long as you >don't want to rev higher than 7000rpm) and another pot that does the >job of the acclerator pump. Very simple. Here in NZ the only way you >can get one of these is 2nd hand. >It works fine but I'm saving my dollars for a Link as it controls >fuel/ignition/revs and the boost solenoid (I left the spec sheet at >home I'll bring it in tomorrow) > >Cheers > >Simon > >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) > Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support > Centre for Computing and Biometrics > LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND > Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > what kind of analog system is it? Made by who? Any schematics available? etc etc. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 04:47:30 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA25483; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:37:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wagner.mtco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA25478; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:37:52 -0400 Received: from 172-175-27.ipt.aol.com (172-175-27.ipt.aol.com [152.172.175.27]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.8.5/8.5.9) with SMTP id XAA30716 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707220437.XAA30716@wagner.mtco.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.mtco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliable >injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It >Simple S- well - you know!! > > Yea, I built one. When it is ready for full production, I will announce it to the list as promised earlier this summer. David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 04:53:28 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA25501; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 04:46:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from m4.c3.telstra-mm.net.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA25496; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 00:46:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199707220446.AAA25496@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: from m5.c3.telstra-mm.net.au by m4.c3.telstra-mm.net.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA101237068; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:51:08 +1000 Received: from eps1.c3.telstra-mm.net.au (UNKNOWN230.c3.telstra-mm.net.au) by m5.c3.telstra-mm.net.au with ESMTP (1.40.112.8/16.2) id AA105447067; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:51:07 +1000 From: "Allan Hines" To: Subject: Re: Throttle body sizing Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:51:03 +1000 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi James Boughton wrote : > Next, take your cylinder displacement of 500cc/cyl and the rpm > (I'll use 6000rpm) and calculate the airflow rate for an intake event. This > should be > > 6000rpm x 500cc x 2 / (60sec/min) = 100000 cc/sec The above formula is incorrect Assuming 100% volumetric efficiency (6000rpm x 500cc) / ( 2 x 60 ) = 25,000 cc/sec = 25 Litre/sec Allan Hines ---------- > From: James Boughton > To: 'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: Throttle body sizing > Date: Tuesday, 22 July 1997 12:43 PM > > Bruno, > To determine the proper size for an intake system you need to > know what rpm you intend to run to. Typically the intake system is sized > to create a theoretical flow velocity of ~60m/s. Not perfect, but a good > starting point. I would use the area of the throttle body throats minus the > area taken up by the throttle shaft (probably ~10mm dia.) So if you are > using a 40mm t/b you should have 1257mm^2 area. If you remove the area > of a 10mm shaft you should be left with approx. 860mm^2. > > Next, take your cylinder displacement of 500cc/cyl and the rpm > (I'll use 6000rpm) and calculate the airflow rate for an intake event. This > should be > > 6000rpm x 500cc x 2 / (60sec/min) = 100000 cc/sec > > divide 100000cc/s by 8.6cm^2 and you get ~116m/s. This would be a little > high which would likely cause power to drop off early. If you want to run > a lower peak power speed then you would have to recalculate accordingly. > By the way, the mysterious 2 in the equation is because the intake event only > gets a half of a rev to occur. > > Also, the value of the area used should be the average intake area and can be > made higher by using trumpets (air horns, stacks, whatever!) that have a large > taper. > > All of this also depends on cams, port flow coefficients, and so on. When you > get to the point of tuning for length let me know :-) > > Jim Boughton > boughton@bignet.net > > ---------- > From: Bruno![SMTP:b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 10:52 AM > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Throttle body sizing > > Hi everyone, > > I have a 2lt twin cam and am considering rigging up a quad throttle efi > manifold for it. Firstly, I will be using the throttle bodies from > stromberg carburettors to save the pain of trying to fabricate a tb from > scratch. I can get these in sizes up to 40mm (i think 1 9/16") at a > reasonable price. > > The intake runners which will mount on the head, and hold the tbs, will be > made using aluminium tube, the internal diameter of which i can get in > different sizes quite readily. again, i could get this in 40mm, or > slightly smaller, or even larger (i think 50mm od & 3mm wall gives 44mm). > The 44 mm option would be a little silly, as the tb being 40mm would be a > restriction (compared to the runner). > > My question is whether 40mm is too large for this type of engine. It > currently gives about 130hp, and is my mild-mannered street car. > Driveability is my main criterion here. > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Bruno. (b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au) > > Early to bed, Early to rise > Makes a man or woman miss out on the night life > -Morphine > > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 06:39:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA25705; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 06:28:12 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA25700; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 02:28:07 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDPJ9FYR000BN@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:27 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:29:11 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:28:52 +1200 Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:28:43 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI In-reply-to: <199707220342.DAA170552@out1.ibm.net> To: diy_efi Message-id: <1DF14FF5686@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All > what kind of analog system is it? Old is about all I can tell you > Made by who? Auto Logic Systems > Any schematics available? etc Not that I have been able to find...but I haven't looked very hard as the is just a "get me by" untill I can afford better. Sorry I can't be of more help Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 12:06:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id LAA26394; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:56:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from random.tpgi.com.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id HAA26389; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:56:34 -0400 Received: from justin (gou-ppp-066.tpgi.com.au [203.29.140.66]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id VAA03441 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:55:49 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33D36317.5BA2@tpgi.com.au> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 23:24:39 +1000 From: Justin Albury X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: SWITCHED EPROMS References: <3.0.1.32.19970721090901.00906e90@mail56.MCIONE.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > >i have found the these to work fine in the P4 and also in TECH-1 > >cartridges. if you use the same base code and only change the data of > > I liked your design, however I wish to submit the following comments. > Instead of using SPST switches directly attached to the E/Eproms, its > important to make them bounceless, whereby when switching, the real > millisecend on/off/on condition assiociated with mechanical switches is > therefor eliminated. I have a schematic in my archive I can share, when I > get home, not a problem. > > Then, after making the switch bounceless, you use either a Flip-Flop > circuit or four inverters to control the enable lines of the two eeproms, > which you are correct, can only have the data set information changed, not > the actual code. > > A friend of mine who designed embedded systems for a career, has such a > system that actually allows CODE changes... this is because, the main loop > of the program always starts at one particular address, on both chips, then > the processor switches the enable pins on the EEprom, not a mechanical > switch. The mechanical switch controls one of the inputs on the processor, > when when it hits the beginning of the loop, where the code is the same in > both chips, will enable or disable the appropriate eeprom. > > Just some thoughts :) > > Frederic Breitwieser > Homebrew Automotive Mailing List > Bridgeport, CT 06606 > http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html > 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car > > --- thankyou could you please mail me when you have a chance Justin From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 13:50:06 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA26637; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:40:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dmcnt7.cols.disa.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA26632; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:40:52 -0400 Received: by dmcnt7.cols.disa.mil with Microsoft Exchange (IMC 4.0.838.14) id <01BC9683.877DC4E0@dmcnt7.cols.disa.mil>; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:42:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Cummings, Mike" To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: EFI for Motorcycle Application Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:42:10 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.838.14 Encoding: 7 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Does anyone in this group have information or can someone point me to information on EFI for motorcycles. I some 79 XS1100 Yamaha Specials and would be interested in installing EFI if possible. Thanks, Mike C, in Columbus, OH. > From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 14:27:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA26723; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:18:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from envy.ugcs.caltech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA26718; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:18:21 -0400 Received: from frappe.ugcs.caltech.edu (frappe.ugcs.caltech.edu [131.215.128.144]) by envy.ugcs.caltech.edu with ESMTP (8.8.5/UGCS:4.44) id HAA24989 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:18:20 -0700 (PDT) From: senator@ugcs.caltech.edu (Bill Bradley) Received: by frappe.ugcs.caltech.edu (8.8.5/UGCS:4.43) id HAA02631; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707221418.HAA02631@frappe.ugcs.caltech.edu> Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 07:18:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <33D3F12C.2B78@ibm.net> from "Clare Snyder" at Jul 21, 97 07:30:52 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > > Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliable > injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It > Simple S- well - you know!! Try a Bosch K-jetronic from a VW Rabbit, Volvo 240, BMW 320i, et. al. Bill From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 15:35:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA26814; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:23:23 GMT Return-Path: Received: from SantaClara01.pop.internex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA26809; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:23:18 -0400 Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by SantaClara01.pop.internex.net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11030) with SMTP id AAA8990 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 08:23:15 -0700 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com (Garfield) To: diy_efi Subject: Alpha-N Questions Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:23:42 GMT Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <342acf96.173409910@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.0/32.390 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Whelp, I just got snagged on learning more about this odd bird. Does anyone have the SAE doc. numbers that report on this FI algorithm? Also, any other leads on info would be most appreciated. I HAVE been through the archives entirely, so I did do some of my homework. Garfield From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 15:39:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA26829; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:28:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA26824; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:28:40 -0400 Received: from fredb (usr11-dialup4.mix2.Boston.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10045) with SMTP id <01ILJALND1BK9D4F7U@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:26:32 EDT Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:47:51 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: eproms via lpt In-reply-to: <199707212045.NAA27708@coyote.rain.org> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.1.32.19970722094751.00908c90@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Where might I get the demo versions of these products? I would like to play >with them a bit. I searched www.infoseek.com, and found both turbolink and tweeker, both aimed at V6 Buick eeproms. However, also in the list, were similar things for V8. I just did this a few minutes ago, and didn't see what I had saw about two months ago when I :thought: I saw it, but I will look again later. I didn't dogear the websites... since I am using a V6 unfortunately. Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 16:23:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA27354; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:16:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from server.tenforward by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA27349; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:16:20 -0400 Received: from [206.213.105.120] by server.tenforward (SMTPD32-3.04) id AD7792401B4; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:19:03 -0700 Message-ID: <33D4DC7F.686B@tenforward.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:14:55 -0700 From: Paul Messinger Organization: MTF INDUSTRIES X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI References: <33D3F12C.2B78@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Clare Snyder wrote: > > Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliable > injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It > Simple S- well - you know!! Garfield and I are working on the concept, but remember a carb system will always beat a FI system for reliability and simplicity with a little maint from time to time. Sudden total carb failure is basically unknown with basic maintenance. Paul From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 16:37:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA27394; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:30:21 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gateway.symtx.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA27389; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:30:17 -0400 Received: from locutus.symtx.com by gateway.symtx.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA16479; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:27:05 -0500 Received: by locutus.symtx.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BC9692.9FFEAA70@locutus.symtx.com>; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:30:15 -0500 Message-Id: <01BC9692.9FFEAA70@locutus.symtx.com> From: Greg Woods To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: oxygen sensors Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 11:30:14 -0500 Encoding: 28 TEXT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi OK for those of you keeping score with my GM TBI swap into an 86 2.8l cherokee, here's some recent updates... Thanks to all who recommended replacing the TPS for my last problem. That was right on the money. I placed a new TPS in my throttlebody, rotated it for 800mV at idle and the "Low TPS voltage" error code disappeared as did my High idle problems (which makes perfect sense). The latest error to be strobed from my 86 GM ECM is an error 45, which is an "O2 sensor indicates rich exhaust" code. The vehicle is still missing at low RPM's on acceleration, and I'm experiencing engine surges/hesitation. The O2 sensor is brand new with less than 2k miles on it. However, it was a cheapy sensor that I bought at Autozone for $18. Should I replace the sensor with a higher dollar/higher quality model? Would anyone like to recommend an O2 sensor for this? Is it normal for cheap O2 sensors to fail prematurely? any and all responses welcome! (I'm still new at this FI thing, but even with these problems, my FI system still works better than my old carb!) greg woods gwoods@symtx.com austin, tx 86 XJ, GM TBI From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 16:43:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA27461; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:37:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from out2.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA27456; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:37:23 -0400 Received: from 486desktop (slip129-37-161-154.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.154]) by out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA80808 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:37:14 GMT Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:37:14 GMT Message-Id: <199707221637.QAA80808@out2.ibm.net> X-Sender: clsnyde@pop3.ibm.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: clsnyde@ibm.net (Clare Snyder) Subject: Re: analog or KISS EFI Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >> >> Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliable >> injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It >> Simple S- well - you know!! > > Try a Bosch K-jetronic from a VW Rabbit, Volvo 240, BMW 320i, et. al. > > Bill > > > This was my first idea - just trying to see if there is anything else out there - mabee a bit lighter and low - pressure. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 18:06:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA27633; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:56:03 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maila.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA27628; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:55:56 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03773 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:52:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t3o44p47.telia.com [195.198.42.167]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA00885 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:55:52 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707221755.TAA00885@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: Subject: SV: analog or KISS EFI Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:53:14 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by maila.telia.com id TAA03773 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Dear Mr Snyder Try a D-Jetronic from a early Volvo 140 GL. They are very easy to convert to anything Best Regards Stefan ---------- > Fr=E5n: Clare Snyder > Till: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > =C4mne: Re: analog or KISS EFI > Datum: den 22 juli 1997 18:37 >=20 > >>=20 > >> Anyone out there have any experience with a simple, low cost, reliab= le > >> injection system foe nominal 100hp 4 cyl 4 stroke? KISS for Keep It > >> Simple S- well - you know!! > > > > Try a Bosch K-jetronic from a VW Rabbit, Volvo 240, BMW 320i, et. al. > > > > Bill > > > > > > > This was my first idea - just trying to see if there is anything else o= ut > there - mabee a bit lighter and low - pressure. >=20 From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 20:09:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA27891; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:59:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wwwpassport.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA27886; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:58:59 -0400 Received: from [206.67.96.195] by mail.wwwpassport.net (NTMail 3.02.07) with ESMTP id ka336944 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 16:02:48 -0400 Received: by port195.k56flex.bignet.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BC96B8.29B4E0C0@port195.k56flex.bignet.net>; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:58:57 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC96B8.29B4E0C0@port195.k56flex.bignet.net> From: James Boughton To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Throttle body sizing Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 15:58:54 -0400 Encoding: 122 TEXT, 87 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 X-Info: http://www.bignet.net/ 1-888-BIG-NET1 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Allan, The formula you wrote is correct if you want to calculate the average flow rate that the engine is using at a constant rate. The flow rate calculation I used was to calculate average flow rate over the intake event. Thus, divide your equation by .25, or multiply by 4. This is the flow rate commonly used for individual runner calculations, and would correspond with the 60 m/s number I gave. If you would like to calculate the values with your equation you must use 15m/s for your target flow rate. Just FYI, if you calculate intsantaneous flow rate for the intake event based on intake area and piston velocity you will find the equation I gave to be close to the average over the 0 to 180 deg interval. This is how I checked my work :-) Jim Boughton boughton@bignet.net ---------- From: Allan Hines[SMTP:ahines@c3.telstra-mm.net.au] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 1997 1:51 AM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: Throttle body sizing James Boughton wrote : > Next, take your cylinder displacement of 500cc/cyl and the rpm > (I'll use 6000rpm) and calculate the airflow rate for an intake event. This > should be > > 6000rpm x 500cc x 2 / (60sec/min) = 100000 cc/sec The above formula is incorrect Assuming 100% volumetric efficiency (6000rpm x 500cc) / ( 2 x 60 ) = 25,000 cc/sec = 25 Litre/sec Allan Hines ---------- > From: James Boughton > To: 'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu' > Subject: RE: Throttle body sizing > Date: Tuesday, 22 July 1997 12:43 PM > > Bruno, > To determine the proper size for an intake system you need to > know what rpm you intend to run to. Typically the intake system is sized > to create a theoretical flow velocity of ~60m/s. Not perfect, but a good > starting point. I would use the area of the throttle body throats minus the > area taken up by the throttle shaft (probably ~10mm dia.) So if you are > using a 40mm t/b you should have 1257mm^2 area. If you remove the area > of a 10mm shaft you should be left with approx. 860mm^2. > > Next, take your cylinder displacement of 500cc/cyl and the rpm > (I'll use 6000rpm) and calculate the airflow rate for an intake event. This > should be > > 6000rpm x 500cc x 2 / (60sec/min) = 100000 cc/sec > > divide 100000cc/s by 8.6cm^2 and you get ~116m/s. This would be a little > high which would likely cause power to drop off early. If you want to run > a lower peak power speed then you would have to recalculate accordingly. > By the way, the mysterious 2 in the equation is because the intake event only > gets a half of a rev to occur. > > Also, the value of the area used should be the average intake area and can be > made higher by using trumpets (air horns, stacks, whatever!) that have a large > taper. > > All of this also depends on cams, port flow coefficients, and so on. When you > get to the point of tuning for length let me know :-) > > Jim Boughton > boughton@bignet.net > > ---------- > From: Bruno![SMTP:b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, July 21, 1997 10:52 AM > To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > Subject: Throttle body sizing > > Hi everyone, > > I have a 2lt twin cam and am considering rigging up a quad throttle efi > manifold for it. Firstly, I will be using the throttle bodies from > stromberg carburettors to save the pain of trying to fabricate a tb from > scratch. I can get these in sizes up to 40mm (i think 1 9/16") at a > reasonable price. > > The intake runners which will mount on the head, and hold the tbs, will be > made using aluminium tube, the internal diameter of which i can get in > different sizes quite readily. again, i could get this in 40mm, or > slightly smaller, or even larger (i think 50mm od & 3mm wall gives 44mm). > The 44 mm option would be a little silly, as the tb being 40mm would be a > restriction (compared to the runner). > > My question is whether 40mm is too large for this type of engine. It > currently gives about 130hp, and is my mild-mannered street car. > Driveability is my main criterion here. > > Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. > > Bruno. (b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au) > > Early to bed, Early to rise > Makes a man or woman miss out on the night life > -Morphine > > > begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(CH3`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$-@ 0` M`@````(``@`!!) &`&0!```!````# ````,``# #````"P`/#@`````"`?\/ M`0```&,`````````@2L?I+ZC$!F=;@#=`0]4`@````!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO M;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``,P`0`` M`",```!D:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;FL"@P!0 M`O()`@!C: K L2$B+B @00@'NL@7R!O)^$?J?L+@ &0:R'A)^ ","0C(J# +"!D:79I M#; -3/#/&QI M*B$>X J%'QL@=O\'0 I0!" TPRNL'-(<@!/ \29B(#$U-8(PTBNB"H5=`9!R M(* %0"#7+AM:2O$[0D9922L0'B4?&"GA]G,>H0!P90A@/ $@YS#2_R'"*>0* MA2I3+' FT":1)B&;*>4*P&4X .@)^ 5H&,TT"R0'-/[`Q # M(&8Q$2&T+ 4*A38T_Q[2-? =D!6@.Y$>X2'")];-*/8@-6 >X3$X-6 -L'\B MX"GA!) Y42X%'6$*A6B_(/$F4!%P!9 J(":@;2R0@3.P%S9?]:.U)E M;& <$!TA=+9L'# &X&0LD "0>B+!YU)/&:]5QDIA!X)0)AT%FCI/##X;M ? M>'0K$/,J`RNC8WDWD#$@*1$K,%LT8 M@8Q/@0X)O'C UX# P8V,O=A%%`R'" MB')P;70W*$DG1K'O.X(U4'>P>,$I10,X? 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U-S 07A'@1,+_-I@6$ 1@2**Q570W=W$"0@.*SQO)$^%O^ 7G4?=B]W/WA/>5]Z;WM_ M_WR/?9]^KW^_@,^!WX+O@_P?SVDK-=*DA (L +@$MQ;LSG5^#EZ8I)AK #_['#,= BPC#2FL 9$,&!FL#_!4 '@*4D3MC/:4_O MPY*4O[]2)\]IDB^3-HLCGY,A6[23E[#RT')Z(Z!O0!/ _G4-L"J!\>$U\2" M:;)=F;>9<5_D&])--(%B2#%B]OXP8W 1X&.WEF1GCY>?::I_F7D;Q9J/FYC# M1UM@*D)R__] (D"?Z,-')E#W!&+ +5#_'M#!8/O310,:$2-2*V'EH/LBT>6@ M9R(A(N"UT2,P1X'_1Q(4Q1%1\DD!8,NP,^$PT_TJD4;TT.5P+9 /`+"!1J+_ M20'SQ;(=B>!!45CQKNE8\?Q,6%&H-SQ\$!Q(?\_81JASH(HE(9C*A,/`,O [\W(VL!04=L! M<_+0I^!,$/\]`NAS]\2%("IWQK"X,15 \" F(#.X,>3 1K$;H._P$.I 4[!= M,"GY"(5"4[#[3D! H7#FT]@?;U&GX3&1_R/A,E,S<0%RNK-$""O97.'[B6#F MTRCC(/10L8&FH\>3[R]C0D M?\.P39V YJ!((?_FY:6 E<#S4KJSAF&J4*I@ M__?3'F/ZHZR HA#&<@(!H6'_*!%:D,-'Z[$Y!;KV ` ` end From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 21:48:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA28024; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:39:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA28019; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 17:39:24 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDQPBMKW000BN@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:35 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:37:42 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:37:17 +1200 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:37:08 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Link Engine Management In-reply-to: To: diy_efi Message-id: <1EE3A0762A0@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All > IF I would like more info. Please post it. I am sure that ALL on this > board would be interested. I wouldn't be here, otherwise. But this is DIY efi ;-) It's a modular, expandable system that microprocessor controlled features: rev limiter boost limiter cold start control (automatic once set) acceleration enrichment control (optimise throrrle response) closed loop control 192 fuel and ign zones multi coil applications if you want more info mail Philip philip.link_electro@clear.net.nz All the performance shops in Christchurch rave about them a friend of mine has one in his nissan turbo and it's helped he power and economy. > Haven't talked to a New Zealander in a long time (since the Vietnam > "Conflict" days). Used to see quite a few of you in Thailand. Reply to questeds@lincoln.ac.nz (don't want to fill the list with crap) Well we haven't slid of the end of the earth yet :-) I was 2 when the conflict finished...... Was there much on the news about the Americas Cup being sledge hammered ? Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 22 23:42:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA28166; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:31:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA28161; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:31:25 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDQUMSYC000BN@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:30 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:32:24 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:32:12 +1200 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:32:06 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: oops In-reply-to: <1EE3A0762A0@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> To: diy_efi Message-id: <1F0246A10BD@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal References: Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > acceleration enrichment control (optimise throrrle response) If you didn't guess that should be throttle Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 01:38:47 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA28469; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:28:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA28464; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:28:32 -0400 Received: from fang.dsto.defence.gov.au (fang.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.2.5]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA26565 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:57:31 +0930 (CST) Received: from hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au (hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au [146.221.39.21]) by fang.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.8.5/) with SMTP id KAA25966 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:58:16 +0930 (CST) Received: from [146.221.36.211] ([146.221.36.211]) by hotblk.dsto.defence.gov.au with SMTP; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:25:05 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:27:44 +1000 To: diy_efi From: lambs@HOTBLK.dsto.defence.gov.au (Stephen Lamb) Subject: Re: EFI for Motorcycle Application Cc: Michael.Cummings@cols.disa.mil Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Does anyone in this group have information or can someone point me to >information on EFI for motorcycles. I some 79 XS1100 Yamaha Specials >and would be interested in installing EFI if possible. >Thanks, Mike C, in Columbus, OH. Similarly, I'd like to fit EFI to my '81 GSX1100. Probably the 'easiest' option is to adapt the hardware (TB, TPS, etc.) from an early 80's GPz1100 Kawasaki, but substitute something like David Doddek's KISS controller system for the stock Kwaka ECU which were renowned for being problematic anyway (well, here in Oz at least). Being engines of similar capacity and output, injector capacity, TB size, etc. should all be in the 'ballpark' - and the same goes for your XS1100. Stephen Lamb Dept. of Defence DSTO, AMRL 506 Lorimer Street Fishermans Bend VIC 3207 Australia Tel: +61 3 9626 7525 Fax: +61 3 9626 7089 IZCC #180 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 02:01:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA28503; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 01:52:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailsrv2.pcy.mci.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA28497; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:52:48 -0400 Received: from NB01167825.internetMCI.COM (usr2-dialup4.mix1.WillowSprings.mci.net) by MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET (PMDF V5.1-8 #10044) with SMTP id <01ILJWD3E8I89BVLUV@MAIL-CLUSTER.PCY.MCI.NET> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:48:46 EDT Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 09:41:59 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: eproms via lpt In-reply-to: <199707212045.NAA27708@coyote.rain.org> X-Sender: 10et50cgqonp@mail56.MCIONE.com To: diy_efi Message-id: <3.0.2.32.19970722094159.00694080@mail56.MCIONE.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Where might I get the demo versions of these products? I would like to play >with them a bit. I searched www.infoseek.com, and found both turbolink and tweeker, both aimed at V6 Buick eeproms. However, also in the list, were similar things for V8. I just did this a few minutes ago, and didn't see what I had saw about two months ago when I :thought: I saw it, but I will look again later. I didn't dogear the websites... since I am using a V6 unfortunately. Frederic Breitwieser Homebrew Automotive Mailing List Bridgeport, CT 06606 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/4605/index.html 1989 AG Hummer 4-Door 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 2000 Mid-Engine Sports Car --- From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 02:33:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA28596; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:25:05 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.tctc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA28586; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:24:57 -0400 Received: from moh (dial1-48.tctc.com [205.243.39.217]) by linux.tctc.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA06659 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:26:19 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970723023124.00696be0@tctc.com> X-Sender: moh@tctc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:31:24 -0500 To: diy_efi From: Mark Subject: Re: Re[2]: Programming language Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 CDT, you wrote: > >--> NOT subject to the frustrations of the VERY regimented structure of >--> the other high level languages; but, much of that structure is >--> available should you desire it. >[snip] >->Just like a mechanic has more than one wrench, a programmer should be >->able to handle more than one language. In many cases, the language >->itself is secondary to the specific *implementation* of the language, > >I have used various languages over the years and I have to agree with Dave, >it is a matter of best fit for the project than which language is better. I >prefer C but will use assembly, basic, etc. if that is a better fit. > >Little programming humor >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Instructions for > > "Shooting Yourself in the Foot" > > in various computer languages > and systems/interfaces >============================================================================ >C: You shoot yourself in the foot. > >C++: You accidentally create a dozen instances of yourself and shoot them > all in the foot. Providing emergency medical assistance is impossible since > you can't tell which are bitwise copies and which are just pointing at > others and saying, "That's me, over there." > >FORTRAN: You shoot yourself in each toe, iteratively, until you run out of > toes; then you read in the next foot and repeat. If you run out of bullets, > you continue anyway because you have no exception-handling routine. > >Modula-2: After realizing that you can't acutally accomplish anything in > this language, you shoot yourself in the head. > >LISP: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you > shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which youshoot > yourself in the appendage which holds... > >COBOL: USEing a COLT 45 HANDGUN, AIM gun at LEG.Foot, THEN place > ARM.HAND.FINGER on HANDGUN.TRIGGER and SQUEEZE. THEN return HANGUN to > HOLSTER. CHECK whether shoelace needs to be retied. > >BASIC: Shoot yourself in the foot with water pistol. On big systems, > continue until entire lower body is waterlogged. > >Virtual BASIC: You'll shoot yourself in the foot, but you'll have so much > fun doing it that you won't care. > >FORTH: Foot in yourself shoot. > >APL: You shoot yourself in the foot; then spend all day figuring out how to > do it in fewer characters. > >Pascal: The compiler won't let you shoot yourself in the foot. > >HyperTalk Put the first bullet of the gun into foot left of leg of you. > Answer the result. > >UNIX: % ls foot.c foot.h foot.o toe.c toe.o %rm *.o rm: .O: No such file or > directory % ls % > >Paradox: Not only can you shoot yourself in foot, your users can, too. > >Motif: You spend days writing a UIL description of your foot, the > trajectory, the bullet, and the intricate scrollwork on the ivory handles > of the gun. When you finally get around to pulling the trigger, the gun > jams. > >Apple System 7: Double click the gun icon and a window giving a selection > for guns, target areas, plus ballon help with medical remedies, and > assorted sound effects. Click shoot button and small bomb appears with note > "Error of type 1 has occurred." > >DOS (all versions): You finally found the gun, but can't locate the file > with the foot for the life of you. > > -------- (Additional languages/interfaces found later) --------- > >Ada: If you are dumb enough to actually use this language, the United > States Department of Defense will kidnap you, stand you up in front of a > firing squad, and tell the soldiers, "Shoot at his feet." > >Algol: You shoot yourself in the foot with a musket. The musket is > aesthetically fascinating, and the wound baffles the adolescent medic in > the emergency room. > >APL (alternate): You hear a gunshot, and there's a hole in your foot, but > you don't remember enough linear algebra to understand what happened. > >Assembly: You crash the OS and overwrite the root disk. The system > administrator arrives and shoots you in the foot. After a moment of > contemplation, the administrator shoots himself in the foot and then hops > around the room rabidly shooting at everyone in sight. > >DBase: You squeeze the trigger, but the bullet moves so slowly that by the > time your foot feels the pain you've forgotten why you shot yourself > anyway. > >DBase IV version 1.0: You pull the trigger, but it turns out that the gun > was a poorly-designed grenade and the whole building blows up. > >sh, csh, etc.: You can't remember the syntax for anything, so you spend > five hours reading man pages before giving up. You then shoot the computer > and switch to C. > >Smalltalk: You spend so much time playing with the graphics and windowing > system that your boss shoots you in the foot, takes away your workstation, > and makes you develop in COBOL on a character terminal. > >PL/I: You consume all available system resources, including all the offline > bullets. The DataProcessing&Payroll Department doubles its size, triples > its budget, acquires four new mainframes, and drops the original one on > your foot. > >Prolog: You attempt to shoot yourself in the foot, but the bullet, failing > to find its mark, backtracks to the gun which then explodes in your face. > >SNOBOL: You grab your foot with your hand, then rewrite your hand to be a > bullet. The act of shooting the original foot then changes your hand/bullet > into yet another foot (a left foot). > >scheme: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which > you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you > shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot > yourself in the appendage which holds... ...but none of the other > appendages are aware of this happening. > >English: You put your foot in your mouth, then bite it off. > >CLIPPER: You grab a bullet, get ready to insert it in the gun so that you > can shoot yourself in the foot, and discover that the gun that the bullet > fits has not yet been built, but should be arriving in the mail > _REAL_SOON_NOW_. > >SQL: You cut your foot off, send it out to a service bureau and when it > returns, it has a hole in it, but will no longer fit the attachment at the > end of your leg. GOD BLESS YOU TERRY FOR A REALLY GOOD LAUGH IRISH From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 02:33:26 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA28595; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:25:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from linux.tctc.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA28584; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:24:55 -0400 Received: from moh (dial1-48.tctc.com [205.243.39.217]) by linux.tctc.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA06655 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:26:15 -0500 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19970723023120.00696a30@tctc.com> X-Sender: moh@tctc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 21:31:20 -0500 To: diy_efi From: Mark Subject: Re: Re[2]: Programming language Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 12:52 PM 7/18/97 CDT, you wrote: > >--> NOT subject to the frustrations of the VERY regimented structure of >--> the other high level languages; but, much of that structure is >--> available should you desire it. >[snip] >->Just like a mechanic has more than one wrench, a programmer should be >->able to handle more than one language. In many cases, the language >->itself is secondary to the specific *implementation* of the language, > >I have used various languages over the years and I have to agree with Dave, >it is a matter of best fit for the project than which language is better. I >prefer C but will use assembly, basic, etc. if that is a better fit. > >Little programming humor >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Instructions for > > "Shooting Yourself in the Foot" > > in various computer languages > and systems/interfaces >============================================================================ >C: You shoot yourself in the foot. > >C++: You accidentally create a dozen instances of yourself and shoot them > all in the foot. Providing emergency medical assistance is impossible since > you can't tell which are bitwise copies and which are just pointing at > others and saying, "That's me, over there." > >FORTRAN: You shoot yourself in each toe, iteratively, until you run out of > toes; then you read in the next foot and repeat. If you run out of bullets, > you continue anyway because you have no exception-handling routine. > >Modula-2: After realizing that you can't acutally accomplish anything in > this language, you shoot yourself in the head. > >LISP: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you > shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which youshoot > yourself in the appendage which holds... > >COBOL: USEing a COLT 45 HANDGUN, AIM gun at LEG.Foot, THEN place > ARM.HAND.FINGER on HANDGUN.TRIGGER and SQUEEZE. THEN return HANGUN to > HOLSTER. CHECK whether shoelace needs to be retied. > >BASIC: Shoot yourself in the foot with water pistol. On big systems, > continue until entire lower body is waterlogged. > >Virtual BASIC: You'll shoot yourself in the foot, but you'll have so much > fun doing it that you won't care. > >FORTH: Foot in yourself shoot. > >APL: You shoot yourself in the foot; then spend all day figuring out how to > do it in fewer characters. > >Pascal: The compiler won't let you shoot yourself in the foot. > >HyperTalk Put the first bullet of the gun into foot left of leg of you. > Answer the result. > >UNIX: % ls foot.c foot.h foot.o toe.c toe.o %rm *.o rm: .O: No such file or > directory % ls % > >Paradox: Not only can you shoot yourself in foot, your users can, too. > >Motif: You spend days writing a UIL description of your foot, the > trajectory, the bullet, and the intricate scrollwork on the ivory handles > of the gun. When you finally get around to pulling the trigger, the gun > jams. > >Apple System 7: Double click the gun icon and a window giving a selection > for guns, target areas, plus ballon help with medical remedies, and > assorted sound effects. Click shoot button and small bomb appears with note > "Error of type 1 has occurred." > >DOS (all versions): You finally found the gun, but can't locate the file > with the foot for the life of you. > > -------- (Additional languages/interfaces found later) --------- > >Ada: If you are dumb enough to actually use this language, the United > States Department of Defense will kidnap you, stand you up in front of a > firing squad, and tell the soldiers, "Shoot at his feet." > >Algol: You shoot yourself in the foot with a musket. The musket is > aesthetically fascinating, and the wound baffles the adolescent medic in > the emergency room. > >APL (alternate): You hear a gunshot, and there's a hole in your foot, but > you don't remember enough linear algebra to understand what happened. > >Assembly: You crash the OS and overwrite the root disk. The system > administrator arrives and shoots you in the foot. After a moment of > contemplation, the administrator shoots himself in the foot and then hops > around the room rabidly shooting at everyone in sight. > >DBase: You squeeze the trigger, but the bullet moves so slowly that by the > time your foot feels the pain you've forgotten why you shot yourself > anyway. > >DBase IV version 1.0: You pull the trigger, but it turns out that the gun > was a poorly-designed grenade and the whole building blows up. > >sh, csh, etc.: You can't remember the syntax for anything, so you spend > five hours reading man pages before giving up. You then shoot the computer > and switch to C. > >Smalltalk: You spend so much time playing with the graphics and windowing > system that your boss shoots you in the foot, takes away your workstation, > and makes you develop in COBOL on a character terminal. > >PL/I: You consume all available system resources, including all the offline > bullets. The DataProcessing&Payroll Department doubles its size, triples > its budget, acquires four new mainframes, and drops the original one on > your foot. > >Prolog: You attempt to shoot yourself in the foot, but the bullet, failing > to find its mark, backtracks to the gun which then explodes in your face. > >SNOBOL: You grab your foot with your hand, then rewrite your hand to be a > bullet. The act of shooting the original foot then changes your hand/bullet > into yet another foot (a left foot). > >scheme: You shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which > you shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you > shoot yourself in the appendage which holds the gun with which you shoot > yourself in the appendage which holds... ...but none of the other > appendages are aware of this happening. > >English: You put your foot in your mouth, then bite it off. > >CLIPPER: You grab a bullet, get ready to insert it in the gun so that you > can shoot yourself in the foot, and discover that the gun that the bullet > fits has not yet been built, but should be arriving in the mail > _REAL_SOON_NOW_. > >SQL: You cut your foot off, send it out to a service bureau and when it > returns, it has a hole in it, but will no longer fit the attachment at the > end of your leg. GOD BLESS YOU TERRY FOR A REALLY GOOD LAUGH IRISH> From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 02:42:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA28674; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:35:07 GMT Return-Path: Received: from denmark.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA28669; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:35:02 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max2-cy-ca-64.earthlink.net [204.119.165.164]) by denmark.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA15885 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33D56E11.6169@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:36:01 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: oops References: <1F0246A10BD@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Simon Quested wrote: > > > acceleration enrichment control (optimise throrrle response) > > If you didn't guess that should be throttle > Another oops? I tried the email address of the Philip fellow in NZ who does the stand-alone systems. His server bounced it back, "user unknown." Can you confirm that the address you listed -- philip.link_electro@clear.net.nz -- was a good one? -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 03:04:50 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA28798; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 02:56:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dewey.mindlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA28793; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:56:36 -0400 Received: from facts [204.174.29.1] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wqrbC-0002J0-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:56:23 -0700 Message-ID: <33D57231.5DC0@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:53:37 -0700 From: Terry Martin Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: neural networks, J1850, ALDL>RS-232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Here's a good ref. to the Intel blurb on J1850 protocol. http://developer.intel.com/design/intarch/papers/j1850_wp.htm I also understand that someone besides me was looking for a schematic for an ALDL>RS-232 interface drawn in TANGO. I have the schematic, and would post it if my fax (read scanner) wasn't busted, which will be remedied really damn shortly. Oh yeah, rumor has it that someone has the source code to read J1850. If that individual would like to forward it to me, it will become public domain as a result of my personal research. nudge nudge wink wink I won't mention the other source other than to say I take full responsibility for everyone else's abilities. :) BTW, source, if you have a return policy on you're scanner, take it back. Terry Martin terry_martin@mindlink.bc.ca From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 04:07:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA28884; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 03:56:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dewey.mindlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA28879; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 23:56:24 -0400 Received: from facts [204.174.29.3] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wqsXG-0002aY-00; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:56:22 -0700 Message-ID: <33D58052.397A@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 20:53:54 -0700 From: Terry Martin Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Programming language References: <1.5.4.32.19970723023124.00696be0@tctc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Mark wrote: > >Little programming humor > GOD BLESS YOU TERRY FOR A REALLY GOOD LAUGH > IRISH It really wasn't me, honest, and he left out Borlund's Startup Dephi 2.0 for Windows 95 & Windows NT, "Windows Tech Journal, December 1, 1995, Delphi is the summation of everything the software development industry has learned during the first decade of the Windows". I will, however, confess to pissing myself. Now that's at least EFI related. Terry Martin...urp From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 04:38:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA28935; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 04:25:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA28930; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 00:25:18 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EDR8848I000BN@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:24 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:26:00 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:25:34 +1200 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 16:25:34 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: oops...Duh! In-reply-to: <33D56E11.6169@earthlink.net> To: diy_efi Message-id: <1F5087A5536@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All > I tried the email address of the Philip fellow in NZ who does the > stand-alone systems. His server bounced it back, "user unknown." Can > you confirm that the address you listed -- > philip.link_electro@clear.net.nz -- was a good one? Thats the mail addy he gave me over the phone I'll check it out Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 14:24:47 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA29858; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 14:13:42 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns1.us.dell.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) id KAA29853; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 10:13:38 -0400 Received: from ccmail2.dell.com (ccmail2.us.dell.com [143.166.233.35]) by ns1.us.dell.com (8.8.5/DELL-INET-4-17-97) with SMTP id IAA17630; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:13:37 -0600 (GMT) Received: by ccmail2.dell.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA29787; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:07:44 -0500 Date: 23 Jul 97 09:07 CDT X400-Trace: us*attmail*dell computer; Arrival 23 Jul 97 09:07 CDT Action: Relayed Priority: normal P1-Message-Id: us*attmail*dell computer;0869666852/0429711586/1 Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text P1-Recipients: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu,owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Terry Sare To: diy_efi, owner-diy_efi-outgoing Message-Id: <@m400gw.dell.com> Subject: Re[2]: Programming language Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Actually this has been floating around the net for a long time. Somebody from Microsoft sent the basic list around. However, the web has also added these: -------- Microsoft Object "Foot" will be included in the next release. You can upgrade for $500. Windows95 d:\setup ------- as this is not efi, do infoseek for "shoot yourself in the foot" and you will get 638 ref. Later, Terry Sare Mark wrote: > >Little programming humor > GOD BLESS YOU TERRY FOR A REALLY GOOD LAUGH > IRISH It really wasn't me, honest, and he left out Borlund's Startup Dephi 2.0 for Windows 95 & Windows NT, "Windows Tech Journal, December 1, 1995, Delphi is the summation of everything the software development industry has learned during the first decade of the Windows". I will, however, confess to pissing myself. Now that's at least EFI related. Terry Martin...urp From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 15:11:21 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA00015; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:02:49 GMT Return-Path: Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA00009; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:02:44 -0400 Received: from sykes.demon.co.uk ([158.152.196.243]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa1505543; 23 Jul 97 15:21 BST Received: from RichM (richm [192.168.2.9]) by sykes.demon.co.uk (8.6.12/v3.2) with SMTP id MAA15409 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:42:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 12:42:26 +0100 Message-Id: <199707231142.MAA15409@sykes.demon.co.uk> X-Sender: richm@sykes.demon.co.uk X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Rich Mauruschat Subject: Re: Injector driver board- bosch and siemens injectors Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 20:45 18/07/97 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all- > >First of all, I want to thank everyone out there for my help with this >project ( the staged injection for a VW golf using a 68HC11F1) without >your help, I would never have tried. > >I tested the injector driver board today. Using a National Semiconductor >LM 1940 voltage regulator and LM1949 injector drivers. I set the timer >to 1.5 ms with a 15k resistor and a .1uf cap. Tried 0.09, .18 and .47 ohm >resistors for the sensing. I tried this with chrysler injectors- two >styles which are bosch and siemens. Bosch are 280155703 12.3 ohm, like >the siemens/deka which is a 4612402. The bosch goes in an early (pre- >production) neon, I can't imagine they changed injectors, but who knows? >The siemens deka comes from a 1995 or 1996 3.3liter grand voyager SE >van. Canadian spec, I think. > >With the 0.47 ohm resistor, i got the 4:1 difference in injector current >from peak to hold for both injectors. I didn't with the 0.18 and 0.09 >ohm resistance. The .18 ohm had about a 2:1 current difference. The >0.09 sense resistor wound up running the injectors saturated. ( I think) >In a discussion with my electronics prof. ( he was helping me) he seemed >to think that a notch in the initial voltage rise was the beginning of >injector motion. By varying the pulse width to the injector, we >determined audibly that the injector didn't open if this point (typically >1.08 to 1.2ms, and about 550 ma) wasn't crossed. We figured that the >opening current for both the injectors was about 550 ma, the Bosch opened >about 0.1 ms faster. Perhaps the pintle is smaller with less inertia? I >don't know. > >At this point without actually observing fluid out of the injectors, we >canot be absolutely sure that the injectors are holding open after the >initial opening surge. By dialing the duty cycle up to 96-99% the >injectors became quiet ( and the scope was showing some high voltages) >below 13% duty cycle at 100.0 Hz ( ~1.3 ms pulse) they were quiet. I can >only assume that they were "holding". > >My question- does anyone have a definitive bench test for injector that >doesnt involve flowing fuel thru the injector? > >Thanks, > >Seth Allen > >(graduating soon (again) and looking for an automotive job) > > Seth, Principally by observing the CURRENT waveform (ie connect a low value resistor in series with the injector and monitor the voltage across this resistor - 0R1 usually works ok), a discontinuity occurs in the current rise slope at the point when the armature starts to move; this is caused by the transient inductance change in the injector as the armature moves. The discontinuity can be quite small and a decent 'scope is required to see it. What may not be obviously clear is the point at which the armature actually starts and stops, it depends how good a trace you can get to be able to spot the precise start and finish of the discontinuity, although the 'hump' itself is usually pretty obvious. This may well be the effect your prof. refers to. Richard From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 15:54:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA00273; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 15:44:15 GMT Return-Path: Received: from statler.cc.wwu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA00267; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:44:10 -0400 Received: by statler.cc.wwu.edu (5.65/WWU-M1.0/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA00727; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:44:08 -0700 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:44:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth To: diy_efi Subject: test post do not read In-Reply-To: <1F5087A5536@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Testing Having problems with my mail server, I think From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 17:38:40 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA00712; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:29:43 GMT Return-Path: Received: from freenet5.afn.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA00705; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:29:34 -0400 Received: from Rhonda (ppp-05-ts13.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.206.220]) by freenet5.afn.org (8.8.5/AFN-1.0) with SMTP id NAA13759 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:29:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19970723132816.0d0f6372@pop3.afn.org> X-Sender: afn14222@pop3.afn.org X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Chief Subject: GM C4 info anyone? Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I have a GM C4 ECM on my Monte SS. Does anybody know a good source of information on how these things work, whether be it a web page or book. I have a service manual but it doesn't explain a lot about advance curves, fuel curves, processing variables, etc. I know this is kind of off the FI subject, but it does have a TPS, O2 sensor, VAC sensor, coolant temp sensor, just a feedback carb with mixture control instead of injectors. Almost there, huh? Please e-mail me directly. Thanks. Ed Hilker aka "Chief" '84 SS w/700-R4 From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 22:50:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA02580; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 22:41:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from diversicomm.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA02575; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 18:41:04 -0400 From: rambo@diversicomm.com Received: from MHS by diversicomm.com with MHS id BBCCBHCI ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:34:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 17:34:22 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Aftermarket stand-alone systems To: diy_efi Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Do yourself a favor leave E-motive alone. Ray From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 23 23:34:53 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA03117; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:26:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mh004.infi.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA03108; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:26:19 -0400 Received: from illuminatus.darksideresearch.com (pm1-37.dcwt.infi.net [208.136.65.37]) by mh004.infi.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA15038 for ; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970723192613.00afaba0@infi.net> X-Sender: sldbrass@infi.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 19:26:13 -0400 To: diy_efi From: Tuck Subject: Re: Aftermarket stand-alone systems In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 05:34 PM 7/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >Do yourself a favor leave E-motive alone. I know I barely post at all, I'm mostly here only as an observer, but does there have to be an argument about electromotive every week? Some people don't like them and think they're arrogant, others think they are highly knowledgeable and just act like it. Either way, their product is generally considered good. Let's just leave it at that instead of going through this crap over and OVER! Flames to the bit bucket. Justin "Tuck" Cordesman SOLID BRASS-> Clear as a Crystal, Sharp as a Knife! Life is a petty thing unless it is moved by the indominatable urge to extend its boundaries. Only in proportion as we are desirous of living more do we really live. -Jos=E9 Ortega y Gasset (1883-1955), Spanish essayist, philosopher. The Dehumanization of Art, "Invitation to Understanding" (1925). From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 24 04:27:29 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA04625; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 04:18:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dewey.mindlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA04620; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 00:18:50 -0400 Received: from facts [204.174.29.13] by dewey.mindlink.net with smtp (Exim 1.61 #1) id 0wrFMR-0000jM-00; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:18:43 -0700 Message-ID: <33D6D6D1.4B3F@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 21:15:13 -0700 From: Terry Martin Organization: F.A.C.T.S. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: ALDL>RS-232 interface Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------406D5A511CCB" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------406D5A511CCB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand someone's been looking for this. Many thanks to the original. --------------406D5A511CCB Content-Type: image/gif; name="Dl-rs232.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Dl-rs232.gif" R0lGODlhIANYAucAAAAAAAEBAQICAgMDAwQEBAUFBQYGBgcHBwgICAkJCQoKCgsLCwwMDA0N DQ4ODg8PDxAQEBERERISEhMTExQUFBUVFRYWFhcXFxgYGBkZGRoaGhsbGxwcHB0dHR4eHh8f HyAgICEhISIiIiMjIyQkJCUlJSYmJicnJygoKCkpKSoqKisrKywsLC0tLS4uLi8vLzAwMDEx MTIyMjMzMzQ0NDU1NTY2Njc3Nzg4ODk5OTo6Ojs7Ozw8PD09PT4+Pj8/P0BAQEFBQUJCQkND Q0REREVFRUZGRkdHR0hISElJSUpKSktLS0xMTE1NTU5OTk9PT1BQUFFRUVJSUlNTU1RUVFVV VVZWVldXV1hYWFlZWVpaWltbW1xcXF1dXV5eXl9fX2BgYGFhYWJiYmNjY2RkZGVlZWZmZmdn Z2hoaGlpaWpqamtra2xsbG1tbW5ubm9vb3BwcHFxcXJycnNzc3R0dHV1dXZ2dnd3d3h4eHl5 eXp6ent7e3x8fH19fX5+fn9/f4CAgIGBgYKCgoODg4SEhIWFhYaGhoeHh4iIiImJiYqKiouL i4yMjI2NjY6Ojo+Pj5CQkJGRkZKSkpOTk5SUlJWVlZaWlpeXl5iYmJmZmZqampubm5ycnJ2d nZ6enp+fn6CgoKGhoaKioqOjo6SkpKWlpaampqenp6ioqKmpqaqqqqurq6ysrK2tra6urq+v r7CwsLGxsbKysrOzs7S0tLW1tba2tre3t7i4uLm5ubq6uru7u7y8vL29vb6+vr+/v8DAwMHB 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(940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA06483; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:46:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA06478; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:46:38 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13160 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id QAA11963; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:46:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi Subject: list? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Is the list dead or have I been bumped off? jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 01:30:38 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA06588; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:17:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA06583; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:17:34 -0400 Received: from MYHOSTNAME (max2-cy-ca-25.earthlink.net [204.119.165.125]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA13836 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:17:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33D7FEF3.6390@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:18:43 -0700 From: Michael McBroom Organization: http://mcbrooms.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02E (OS/2; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: list? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi James Weiler wrote: > > Is the list dead or have I been bumped off? Shhhh! You might wake 'em up :) -- Best, Michael McBroom '87 745T 123k w/APC (batoutahell!) '88 765T 154k _________________________________________________________________________ Graduate Student, Linguistics Author of Research Interest: Biological Origins =McBroom's Camera Bluebook= of Language http://mcbrooms.com California State University, Fullerton _________________________________________________________________________ From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 01:33:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA06598; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:23:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from declan.chem.uwa.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA06593; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:23:25 -0400 Received: from rcammp1 by declan.chem.uwa.edu.au; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/29Jan96-0249PM) id AA14347; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:23:23 +0800 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19970725092748.0068d820@declan.chem.uwa.edu.au> X-Sender: robskala@declan.chem.uwa.edu.au X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:27:48 +0800 To: DIY_EFI From: Rob Skala Subject: Ignition Controllers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All, I am contemplating constructing a digital igniton system (similar to the one designed by Tim Drury). based on a Hc11 microcontroller. I want to incorporate a few additional features one of which in knock control. Does anyone out there have any advice as to the best method to implement this ? Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. I welcome all ideas and comments about this. Thanks to all in advance for your help Regards, Rob Robert D Skala Research Associate Special Research Centre for Advanced Mineral and Materials Processing University of Western Australia Nedlands Western Australia 6907 Tel: (618) 9380 1581 Fax: (618) 9380 1116 email: robskala@chem.uwa.edu.au From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 01:34:11 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA06606; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 01:24:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from f30.hotmail.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA06601; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 21:24:37 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by f30.hotmail.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA17509; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707250124.SAA17509@f30.hotmail.com> Received: from 165.91.65.104 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:24:35 PDT X-Originating-IP: [165.91.65.104] From: "barry coleman" To: diy_efi Subject: intel's D8763-1 EPROM Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 18:24:35 PDT Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi DIY_EFI list, This is my first post to this fascinating list and I have kept silent until now because I wanted to ask a question that wasn't in the archives already, so here is is: Does anybody on the list know the pinout/specs for this EPROM? It is from my EEC-IV ("DC" calibration code, aka '88 SD SEFI 5.0HO). This EPROM is in a weird 24 pin DIP package and it officially doesn't exist. Thanks in advance. Barry Coleman a 351C w/SEFI...why didn't Ford think of that? fvoho@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 02:36:40 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA06750; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:23:56 GMT Return-Path: Received: from student.canberra.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA06744; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:23:52 -0400 Received: from by student.canberra.edu.au (8.7.5/8.7.5) id MAA18426; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:23:49 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 12:23:48 +1000 (EST) From: Bruno! To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Ignition Controllers In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970725092748.0068d820@declan.chem.uwa.edu.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Rob Skala wrote: [snippity-snip] > incorporate a few additional features one of which in knock control. > > Does anyone out there have any advice as to the best method to implement > this ? Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset > of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The > controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. If your engine needs to be run with the ddis before you implement knock, you could have the controller emulate a distributor initially, and (dons the asbestos underwear) gradually tweak the timing so that you might be able to get the engine to ping. If not, you may be able to set the dizzy to do so. You could record the engine sounds by bolting a microphone to the engine somewhere (or maybe even 3 or 4, near the valves :)) to find the best point where to "listen" for this condition. I've read that this should not continue for very long, if you want the engine to survive. The signal could then be filtered out and cleaned up to give a knock sensor "switch". Make sure that other egine noises do not make the sensor think it's knocking when it isn't. I'll be undergoing a similar development with my car soon, and i'll be posting results as they come to hand. Good luck, Bruno. (b.marzano@student.canberra.edu.au) On the internet, no-one can hear you scream. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 03:34:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA06965; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 03:23:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dtc.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA06960; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:22:58 -0400 Received: from dtc.net (jeremy@p47.ts1.dtc.net [205.183.130.47]) by dtc.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id DAA21128 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 03:25:13 GMT From: Jeremy Fleming To: Rob Skala Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:22:41 -0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970725092748.0068d820@declan.chem.uwa.edu.au> X-Mailer: YAM 1.3.3a [020] - Amiga Mailer by Marcel Beck Subject: Re: Ignition Controllers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On 24-Jul-97, Rob Skala wrote: >Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset >of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The >controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. >I welcome all ideas and comments about this. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm interested as well. I have a stock 13B 6p, and I would like to improve the power output. Unfortunately, I don't have a clue what ECU Mazda used on the '86 GXL for spark control. Seeing as how detonation tends to break apex seals right and left, I would need some form of knock sensing ignition if any forced induction is to be added. I'm all ears if anyone has any experience in this area. Jeremy Fleming jeremy@dtc.net jeremy@newertech.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 03:59:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA07032; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 03:47:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.wgn.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA07027; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:47:49 -0400 Received: from bullwinkle (du286-pcap-nca01.wgn.net [207.213.6.32]) by mail.wgn.net (8.8.5-q-beta3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA22850 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:47:13 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970724204956.00a4da90@mail.wgn.net> X-Sender: sganz@mail.wgn.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 20:49:58 -0700 To: diy_efi From: Sandy Subject: Re: Ignition Controllers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 09:27 AM 7/25/97 +0800, you wrote: > >Hi All, > >I am contemplating constructing a digital igniton system (similar to the >one designed by Tim Drury). based on a Hc11 microcontroller. I want to >incorporate a few additional features one of which in knock control. > >Does anyone out there have any advice as to the best method to implement >this ? Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset >of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The >controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. > >I welcome all ideas and comments about this. > Harris makes a part that is for Knock Control, check the Web site for the part number. Also TI has a application for one of their low end DSP chips that lets you do it a bit more elegantly. The Harris part uses moto's SPI buss so if the varient of processor you choose has it, it will be an easy interface. I'm not sure how hard it is to get the part, but it is a start. Sandy From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 06:15:53 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA07250; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:03:20 GMT Return-Path: Received: from statler.cc.wwu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA07245; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 02:03:16 -0400 Received: by statler.cc.wwu.edu (5.65/WWU-M1.0/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA28988; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:03:13 -0700 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:03:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Ignition Controllers In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970725092748.0068d820@declan.chem.uwa.edu.au> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Rob Skala wrote: > > Hi All, > > I am contemplating constructing a digital igniton system (similar to the > one designed by Tim Drury). based on a Hc11 microcontroller. I want to > incorporate a few additional features one of which in knock control. > > Does anyone out there have any advice as to the best method to implement > this ? Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset > of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The > controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. > > I welcome all ideas and comments about this. > > Thanks to all in advance for your help > > Regards, > > Rob > > > > Robert D Skala Robert- somewhere I have either an SAE paper on VW's knock sensor ignition, or a book with it in it. From what I remember, the knocking rings the belock like a bell and the knock sensor is placed at a node of great intensity. The piezo electric microphone output is filtered with a high and lo pass filter to diminish all input other than the knocking frequency. Then the computer (which also has a manifold absolute pressure sender) determines the map and listens for knock. If it hears it , then it iterates through advance and retard cycles. The 1985 VW system wasn't adaptive, and is often accused of being too sensitive. If I can find technical documentation, I will post it. I used to have 3d plots of ignition maps, and some sort of photographic technique that showed the ringing of the block. Seth Allen PS this topic wwas discussed a while back, at least as far as knock sensor placement, with suggestions like bolting the sensor the edge of the block near the oil pan, if I remember correctly. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 13:52:07 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA08471; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:34:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from synunix.netsynergy.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA08466; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 09:34:53 -0400 From: mcosta@netsynergy.com Received: from smtplink2.netsynergy.com (smtplink2.netsynergy.com [205.246.18.27]) by synunix.netsynergy.com (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with SMTP id NAA11973 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 13:28:16 GMT Received: from cc:Mail by smtplink2.netsynergy.com id AA869848172; Fri, 25 Jul 97 09:26:19 EST Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 09:26:19 EST Encoding: 3 Text Message-Id: <9706258698.AA869848172@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> To: diy_efi Subject: knock sensing Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi The harris semi part number is hip9010 for the knock signal processor. From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 14:38:23 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA08792; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 14:24:01 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spbted.gtri.gatech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA08787; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:23:57 -0400 Received: from spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (unverified [130.207.198.39]) by spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:28:19 -0400 Received: by spbted.gtri.gatech.edu with Microsoft Mail id <01BC98E5.76C29E50@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu>; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:28:16 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC98E5.76C29E50@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu> From: Tim Drury To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Ignition Controllers Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 10:28:14 -0400 Encoding: 48 TEXT, 79 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Does anyone out there have any advice as to the best method to implement >this ? Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset >of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The >controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. The first thing I would do (and I already did this), is find out what a knock sensor really is. Here's a starting point: a knock sensor is simply an accelerometer tuned to high frequencies. Knocking causes the engine block to vibrate at high frequencies. Which frequencies? Where in the block is the best place to measure? Good questions. As far as where, I've heard the rule of thumb is to locate it fairly centrally. In the case of large motors with lots of pistons, sometimes 2 knock sensors are used. At what frequencies? It depends on the engine, which is why I didn't include this feature in my system. Engines knock and resonate at different frequencies. You can look at all the technical papers you want (and this is a good idea to learn how knock detection works) but unless you see one for your application, the frequencies may be a little off. Someone mentioned the Harris knock detection chip. I've seen this (it was years ago) and believe it could be tuned to detect knock in a narrow band. It probably is nothing more than a switched-capacitor bandpass filter, but this would be a good start. Without previous knowledge of what frequency to tune to, you'll have to experiment. We've tried hooking a knock sensor up to a graphic equalizer with 10 bands. We didn't have any luck; I believe the bands were too broad. If cost were no object, I would install a knock sensor, hook its output to a spectrum analyzer tuned for narrow bands between 5kHz and 20kHz. Then advance the timing on the motor _very_ slowly and look for spikes to occur. This is _probably_ knock. Be very careful though, too much knock for too long and you'll blow a hole through Mr. Piston. The cheaper method would be to install the Harris chip or a narrow bandpass filter to the output of the accelerometer and run the same test as above without the spectrum analyzer. Manually tune across the band using the filter and look for higher voltages coming out of the filter (use an envelope detector). This method requires more time and more knocking from the motor. And to be honest, I really don't have a clue what frequencies knocking occurs at. 5-20kHz is just a guess. Read some SAE papers to get an idea. -tim begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A .`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`% (```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````8P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&1I>5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````(P```&1I>5]E M9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``$P`0```"4````G9&EY7V5F:4!C;W5L;VUB+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E M+F5D=2<``````@$+, $````H````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$-/54Q/34(N14Y' M+D](24\M4U1!5$4N1415``,``#D`````"P! .@$````>`/9?`0```",```!D M:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M``@0 M`0```&4```!$3T5304Y93TY%3U545$A%4D5(059%04Y9041624-%05-43U1( M14)%4U1-151(3T143TE-4$Q%345.5%1(25,_241%04Q,65=(051)5T]53$1, M24M%5$]$3TE3041604Y#151(``````(!"1 !````&0<``!4'``"_"P``3%I& M=2:ZZIQW``H!`P'W( *D`^,"`&.": K 9D"(&4@"& %0'1H!) 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M"" &``````# ````````1@`````XA0```0````$`````````'@`]``$````% 5````4D4Z( `````#``TT_3<``+OC ` end From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 15:18:55 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA09025; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:01:36 GMT Return-Path: Received: from SantaClara01.pop.internex.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA09020; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:01:32 -0400 Received: from garfield.pilgrimhouse.com ([205.158.241.42]) by SantaClara01.pop.internex.net (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-11030) with SMTP id AAA8403 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:01:30 -0700 From: garfield@pilgrimhouse.com (Garfield) To: diy_efi Subject: Re: knock sensing Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:01:48 GMT Organization: Pilgrim House Message-ID: <33e2bfaa.85120837@santaclara01.pop.internex.net> References: <9706258698.AA869848172@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> In-Reply-To: <9706258698.AA869848172@smtplink2.netsynergy.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Fri, 25 Jul 97 09:26:19 EST, mcosta@netsynergy.com wrote: > The harris semi part number is hip9010 for the knock signal = processor. Yeah, I had a look. I couldn't tell from the data sheet if this device could be operated in a mode that didn't require the processor? Garfield From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 15:54:54 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA09199; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:33:08 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-out1.apple.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA09194; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 11:33:04 -0400 Received: from apple.com (A17-128-100-142.apple.com [17.128.100.142]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA35298 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:33:03 -0700 Received: from [17.221.21.215] (knowb2.apple.com [17.221.21.215]) by apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA24666 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:33:01 -0700 Message-Id: <199707251533.IAA24666@apple.com> Subject: Knock sensors, was Re: Ignitition Controllers Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 08:33:01 -0700 x-sender: briankk@mail.apple.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Brian Knowles To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Bruno Marzano wroto: > >On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Rob Skala wrote: > >[snippity-snip] > >> incorporate a few additional features one of which in knock control. >> >> Does anyone out there have any advice as to the best method to implement >> this ? Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset >> of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The >> controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. > >If your engine needs to be run with the ddis before you implement knock, >you could have the controller emulate a distributor initially, and (dons >the asbestos underwear) gradually tweak the timing so that you might be >able to get the engine to ping. If not, you may be able to set the dizzy >to do so. You could record the engine sounds by bolting a microphone to >the engine somewhere (or maybe even 3 or 4, near the valves :)) to find >the best point where to "listen" for this condition. I've read that this >should not continue for very long, if you want the engine to survive. > >The signal could then be filtered out and cleaned up to give a knock >sensor "switch". Make sure that other egine noises do not make the sensor >think it's knocking when it isn't. It's my understanding (means I don't remember where I heard it) that the manufactures of knock sensors make them in only 4 frequencies, and you make your choice of one that comes closest to working on your engine, and that a lot (not all) aluminum OHC and DOHC engines, 'specially those with chain driven cams, make so much general thrashing noise as to prevent use of any of the available knock sensors. 4 cylinder Alfas, for instance. Its my further understanding that because there are only four to choose from, many available implementations don't catch ALL detonation, especially under high boost, and that an engine with factory knock sensing can still detonate and damage itself because of this. Buick turbo V6s for instance. I guess this explains why manufacturers put knock sensors in unlikely places. 4 cylinder turbo-ford engines have 'em low on the side of the inlet manifold. I speculate that they got a sensor of the frequency that comes closest, and then optimised the location of the sensor to best detect that frequency. Brian From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 19:24:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA09526; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 19:09:48 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maila.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA09521; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:09:45 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA15010 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:05:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t4o44p25.telia.com [195.198.42.205]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA15568 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:09:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707251909.VAA15568@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: Subject: SV: Ignition Controllers Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:09:38 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by maila.telia.com id VAA15010 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi ---------- > Fr=E5n: Tim Drury > Till: 'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu' > =C4mne: RE: Ignition Controllers > Datum: den 25 juli 1997 16:28 >=20 > >Does anyone out there have any advice as to the best method to impleme= nt > >this ? Ideally what I would like to do is advance the timing to the onset > >of knock and then retard it slightly back into the safe zone. The > >controller will be used on a fuel injected 12A turbo rotary engine. >=20 > The first thing I would do (and I already did this), is find out what a knock > sensor really is. Here's a starting point: a knock sensor is simply an > accelerometer tuned to high frequencies. Knocking causes the engine > block to vibrate at high frequencies. Which frequencies? Where in the > block is the best place to measure? Good questions. =20 >=20 > As far as where, I've heard the rule of thumb is to locate it fairly centrally. > In the case of large motors with lots of pistons, sometimes 2 knock sensors > are used. >=20 > At what frequencies? It depends on the engine, which is why I didn't include > this feature in my system. Engines knock and resonate at different frequencies. > You can look at all the technical papers you want (and this is a good idea > to learn how knock detection works) but unless you see one for your application, > the frequencies may be a little off. >=20 > Someone mentioned the Harris knock detection chip. I've seen this (it was years > ago) and believe it could be tuned to detect knock in a narrow band. I= t probably > is nothing more than a switched-capacitor bandpass filter, but this wou= ld be a > good start. >=20 > Without previous knowledge of what frequency to tune to, you'll have to experiment. > We've tried hooking a knock sensor up to a graphic equalizer with 10 bands. We > didn't have any luck; I believe the bands were too broad. If cost were no object, > I would install a knock sensor, hook its output to a spectrum analyzer tuned for > narrow bands between 5kHz and 20kHz. Then advance the timing on the motor > _very_ slowly and look for spikes to occur. This is _probably_ knock.=20 Be very=20 > careful though, too much knock for too long and you'll blow a hole through Mr. Piston. >=20 > The cheaper method would be to install the Harris chip or a narrow bandpass filter > to the output of the accelerometer and run the same test as above witho= ut the > spectrum analyzer. Manually tune across the band using the filter and look for > higher voltages coming out of the filter (use an envelope detector).=20 This method > requires more time and more knocking from the motor. >=20 > And to be honest, I really don't have a clue what frequencies knocking occurs at. > 5-20kHz is just a guess. Read some SAE papers to get an idea. >=20 > -tim >=20 Have any one seen the instrument that Link is offering ? Its called Knocklink. Its made so You can tune it to hear pinging from different engines and it= s cheap to ($100,) Stefan From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Jul 25 22:29:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA09847; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:12:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from VNET.IBM.COM by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA09842; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 18:12:42 -0400 Received: from ATLVMES0.VNET.IBM.COM by VNET.IBM.COM (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 2002; Fri, 25 Jul 97 18:12:40 EDT Message-Id: <19970725.181223.DONLEYCT@RALVM8> Date: 25 Jul 1997 18:12:23 EDT From: To: Subject: RE: Ignition Controllers Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi .ddn coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu(diy_efi) The shop manual for my Ford identifies the frequency of the knock sensor, I would expect many of them do. Pat PDONLEYCOTT @ VNET.IBM.COM From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 26 00:21:45 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA10581; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:02:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA10576; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:02:26 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22548 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id RAA13115; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:01:58 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:01:58 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: Re: SV: Ignition Controllers In-Reply-To: <199707251909.VAA15568@d1o44.telia.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Fri, 25 Jul 1997, Stefan Olsson wrote: > Have any one seen the instrument that Link is offering ? Its called > Knocklink. > Its made so You can tune it to hear pinging from different engines and its > cheap to ($100,) wow tell us more! Got a 1-800 number ? thanks jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 26 00:21:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA10591; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:05:41 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA10586; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:05:38 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22678 for ; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id RAA13120; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:05:10 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 17:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi cc: diy_efi Subject: EEC-IV knock sensing In-Reply-To: <19970725.181223.DONLEYCT@RALVM8> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi The probst book on EEC-IV has a refrence in the back for a place that sells a knock sensing/retard device for any EEC-IV engine. I forget the name of the place but I was wondering if anybody else has anything like it. cheers jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 26 00:30:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA10614; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:18:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from out1.ibm.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA10609; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 20:18:10 -0400 Received: from 486desktop (slip129-37-161-213.on.ca.ibm.net [129.37.161.213]) by out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA24758 for ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:18:07 GMT Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:18:07 GMT Message-Id: <199707260018.AAA24758@out1.ibm.net> X-Sender: clsnyde@pop3.ibm.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: clsnyde@ibm.net (Clare Snyder) Subject: MAP SENSOR Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Just looking for some clarificarion: Is MAP sensor output a linear analog signal? In other words, is it a variable DC output voltage proportionate to manifold pressure? Something like supply voltage (5VDC +/-) at atmospheric, and 1.0 +/- at full manifold vacuum ( closed throttle decel?)or is it a frequency type signal? Mabee there are both kinds? From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 26 04:17:20 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA11076; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 04:00:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from statler.cc.wwu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA11071; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 00:00:19 -0400 Received: by statler.cc.wwu.edu (5.65/WWU-M1.0/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA12282; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:00:17 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:00:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth To: diy_efi Subject: Re: MAP SENSOR In-Reply-To: <199707260018.AAA24758@out1.ibm.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Sat, 26 Jul 1997, Clare Snyder wrote: > > Just looking for some clarificarion: > > Is MAP sensor output a linear analog signal? In other words, is it a > variable DC output voltage proportionate to manifold pressure? Something > like supply voltage (5VDC +/-) at atmospheric, and 1.0 +/- at full manifold > vacuum ( closed throttle decel?)or is it a frequency type signal? > > Mabee there are both kinds? > > > The MAP sensor that I purchased, the motorola MPX4250AP, is absolute pressure withoutput 0-5 volts at pressures 20 to 250 kpa, or ~ 0-2.5 bar. Similar sensors can be ordered form motorola, but if I seem to remember the resolution isnt much better than the MXP 4250AP. Seth Allen From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 26 16:19:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA13121; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 16:02:32 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout07.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA13116; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:02:29 -0400 From: A70Duster@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout07.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id MAA27318 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970726120225_-1039379917@emout07.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: MAP SENSOR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.15874.emout07.mail.aol.com.869932945" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15874.emout07.mail.aol.com.869932945 Content-ID: <0_15874_869932945@emout07.mail.aol.com.2820> Content-type: text/plain Something from the past. It is pretty linear. --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15874.emout07.mail.aol.com.869932945 Content-ID: <0_15874_869932945@emout07.mail.aol.com.2821> Content-type: text/plain; name="MAP_SENS.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GMC EFI engine MAP sensors calibration data, page one =0D Input model 460 model 835 model 834 IN Hg output VDC output VDC output VDC 0 4.620 4.602 0.560 -1.0 4.442 4.424 0.741 -2.0 4.264 4.249 0.923 -3.0 4.086 4.075 1.105 -4.0 3.908 3.899 1.287 -5.0 3.73 3.724 1.469 -6.0 3.552 3.548 1.652 -7.0 3.374 3.370 1.834 -8.0 3.196 3.195 2.016 -9.0 3.018 3.019 2.199 -10.0 2.84 2.842 2.380 -11.0 2.662 2.667 2.562 -12.0 2.484 2.485 2.745 -13.0 2.306 2.303 2.928 -14.0 2.128 2.121 3.111 -15.0 1.95 1.940 3.293 -16.0 1.772 1.758 3.475 -17.0 1.594 1.577 3.657 -18.0 1.416 1.395 3.840 -19.0 1.238 1.219 4.022 -20.0 1.178 1.043 4.204 =0D b=3D4.610 = m=3D0.176 =0D Connector green red gray output wire green green green =0D sensor 0 to 28"Hg 0 to 28"Hg 0 to 28"Hg range direct acting direct acting reverse act. =0D output volts 0.175V 0.178V 0.182V per inch Hg. input =0D GMC EFI engine MAP sensors calibration data, page 2. =0D Input model 833 Input model 886 ? output VDC IN H2O output VDC 0 4.629 0.0 2.347 0.1 4.612 0.5 2.435 0.2 4.593 1.0 2.522 0.3 4.575 1.5 2.610 0.4 4.557 2.0 2.698 0.5 4.539 2.5 2.786 0.6 4.521 3.0 2.874 0.7 4.502 3.5 2.961 0.8 4.484 4.0 3.049 0.9 4.466 4.5 3.136 1 4.448 5.0 3.224 1.1 4.429 5.5 3.312 6.0 3.395 = sensitivity sensitivity = 0.182V/inch Hg 0.175V/inch Hg = =0D Connector blue Connector yellow output wire gray output wire green wire stripe black trace wire stripe ?? sensor ??? sensor -25" to +9# range reverse act. range reverse act. =0D Data was given in inches water for the 886. Unit of measure were not = specified for the 833. Possibly the data represents about 0.18 volts = output per inch mercury pressure input for both 886 & 833. =0D --PART.BOUNDARY.0.15874.emout07.mail.aol.com.869932945-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Sat Jul 26 22:28:40 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA13610; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 22:13:46 GMT Return-Path: Received: from spbted.gtri.gatech.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA13605; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:13:44 -0400 Received: from spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (unverified [130.207.198.39]) by spbted.gtri.gatech.edu (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:17:19 -0400 Received: by spbted.gtri.gatech.edu with Microsoft Mail id <01BC99F0.27218440@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu>; Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:17:18 -0400 Message-ID: <01BC99F0.27218440@spbted.gtri.gatech.edu> From: Tim Drury To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: Ignition Controllers Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 18:17:17 -0400 Encoding: 11 TEXT, 46 UUENCODE X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Have any one seen the instrument that Link is offering ? Its called >Knocklink. >Its made so You can tune it to hear pinging from different engines and it= >s >cheap to ($100,) That's pretty cool. Do you have more info? What does knock sound like? -tim begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A(6`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````@`"``$$ MD 8`% (```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````8P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&1I>5]E9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``(P`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````(P```&1I>5]E M9FE 8V]U;&]M8BYE;F``$P`0```"4````G9&EY7V5F:4!C;W5L;VUB+F5N9RYO:&EO+7-T871E M+F5D=2<``````@$+, $````H````4TU44#I$25E?149)0$-/54Q/34(N14Y' M+D](24\M4U1!5$4N1415``,``#D`````"P! .@$````>`/9?`0```",```!D M:7E?969I0&-O=6QO;6(N96YG+F]H:6\M`!X,`0````4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````&@`` M`'1I;2YD4!G=')I+F=A=&5C:"YE9'4````#``80=S;\O ,`!Q#'```` M'@`($ $```!E````2$%614%.64].15-%14Y42$5)3E-44E5-14Y45$A!5$Q) M3DM)4T]&1D5224Y'/TE44T-!3$Q%1$M.3T-+3$E.2TE44TU!1$533UE/54-! M3E153D5)5%1/2$5!4E!)3D=)3D=&4@`````"`0D0`0```$(!```^`0``F0$` M`$Q:1G5RK.L0=P`*`0,!]R "I /C`@!C@F@*P'-E=# @!Q/E`H!]"H%U8P!0 M"P,+8,!N9S$P,S,+IPJQ@0J /DAA=F4@`' \>2 "(!+@#[ )\"!TAF@2X N M JP(P$\%A!4!,"X!K% `=!"!O`2 &<1%@(#\@U$ET!"!C!T!L"8 2 M14!+;F]C:VP5(2X?$D460@# `0`3<&\@6=<(8!9Q$[%U$U%I%*$9`#L3X K! M(#4B!D?P:0%;$4@@GP&M$'D0!P9'T9X3T210] $E0/^BUT!W >^A!Q`": M```#`! 0`0````,`$1 ``````P" $/____] ```"6 "" &``````# ````````1@````!4A0```0````0` M```X+C ``P`F@ @@!@``````P ```````$8``````84````````+`"^ "" & M``````# ````````1@`````.A0````````,`,( (( 8``````, ```````!& M`````!&%`````````P`R@ @@!@``````P ```````$8`````&(4````````> M`$& "" &``````# ````````1@`````VA0```0````$`````````'@!"@ @@ M!@``````P ```````$8`````-X4```$````!`````````!X`0X (( 8````` M`, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`````````>`#T``0````4```!213H@ .``````,`#33]-P``;-2% ` end From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 01:51:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id BAA16504; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 01:14:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wilhelm.baps.BoM.GOV.AU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id VAA16499; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:14:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199707280114.VAA16499@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Received: from platypus.baps.BoM.GOV.AU by wilhelm.baps.BoM.GOV.AU with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20147; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:14:47 +1000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Stuart Baly" To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:14:39 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: Ignition Controllers Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.42) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Tim wrote: >At what frequencies? It depends on the engine, which is why I didn't >include this feature in my system. Engines knock and resonate at >different frequencies. You can look at all the technical papers you >want (and this is a good idea to learn how knock detection works) but >unless you see one for your application, the frequencies may be a >little off. I remember reading a formula somewhere that relates the knock frequency to the engine bore. It was a simple thing like Knock Freq=Constant/Bore. I'd guess that the frequency would change with a turbo engine as the speed of sound would change with gas pressure. Anyway, this is of no use at all to a rotary engine. I might just take a large step outside my area of knowledge for a second. Perhaps the resonant frequency of a rotary's combustion chamber is determined by the distance between the sideplates, as these are the only two parallel surfaces in it. If you can find the above equation, and substitute that distance into the Bore variable, it'd be a starting point. 0.02c is way overpriced for this. Stuart Baly. ======================================================== Stuart Baly (s.baly@bom.gov.au) Technical Officer Cape Grim Baseline Air Pollution Station '71 Datsun 510, '81 Yamaha RD350LC, '89 Kawasaki GPz900R ======================================================== From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 03:14:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA16616; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 02:44:52 GMT Return-Path: Received: from corinna.its.utas.edu.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA16611; Sun, 27 Jul 1997 22:44:47 -0400 Received: from pclab4.eee.utas.edu.au (pclab4.eee.utas.edu.au [131.217.33.104]) by corinna.its.utas.edu.au (8.8.5/8.8.4-utas-ff) with SMTP id MAA10401 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:44:09 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <33DCF83D.1230@iname.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 12:51:25 -0700 From: Steven Arnold X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Ignition Controllers - knock detection References: <199707280114.VAA16499@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > I remember reading a formula somewhere that relates the knock > frequency to the engine bore. It was a simple thing like Knock > Freq=Constant/Bore. I'd guess that the frequency would change with a > turbo engine as the speed of sound would change with gas pressure. In the sillicon chip engine knock indicator article, they quote the formula - F=900/(pi*r) r=cylinder radius in metres However, I think they proceed to do some calculations that seem to be based bore diameter, rather than radius - which seen to be incorrect. I have also read that the knock frequency reduces the later the knock occurs or is measured - due to the increasing volume of the cylinder. So positioning of the knock detection window will have some effect on the freq - however this probably wouldn't matter, as the bandwidth of your bandpass filter would be wider than this freq variation. -- sarnold@iname.com http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1309 RE - That is all, there is no more. From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 08:56:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id IAA17027; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:28:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from digger1.defence.gov.au by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id EAA17022; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 04:28:24 -0400 Received: from fang.dsto.defence.gov.au (fang.dsto.defence.gov.au [131.185.2.5]) by digger1.defence.gov.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26654 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:57:29 +0930 (CST) Received: from msmail.dsto.defence.gov.au (msmail.dsto.gov.au [131.185.2.6]) by fang.dsto.defence.gov.au (8.8.5/) with SMTP id RAA32408 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:58:21 +0930 (CST) Message-Id: <199707280828.RAA32408@fang.dsto.defence.gov.au> Received: by msmail.dsto.defence.gov.au via MsMail with Mimetic; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:00 +0930 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:03 +0930 From: "Graham, Peter" To: diy_efi Subject: RE: Ignition Controllers X-priority: 3 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="====S1ZzxGxasItfaKC2jsgrWKfqrLs_l==NG100000119==" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi --====S1ZzxGxasItfaKC2jsgrWKfqrLs_l==NG100000119== Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Have any one seen the instrument that Link is offering ? Its called >Knocklink. >Its made so You can tune it to hear pinging from different engines and =20 its >cheap to ($100,) >Stefan Stefan =20 Silicon Chip published an article where they designed a basic knock =20 indicator. It is basically a bandpass filter that is gated from the =20 ignition coil, which is then rectified and filtered and then displayed on =20= a 10 led bar graph . If the knocking got to bad they also had a buzzer =20 that sounded. It could be set to 'tune' out the background noise by the =20 use of a gain controlled amplifier. The kit is available from Jaycar Electronics for those in Australia for =20 A$35. They have a mail order section for those people overseas. Ph +61-2-9743-6144 fax +61-2-9743-2066 =20 The kit includes a crystal earpiece and a TO3 transistor for those that =20 want to make their own knock sensor. Peter Graham =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D _--_|\ Peter Graham [Peter.Graham@dsto.defence.gov.au] / DSTO \ Maritime Operations Division \_.--._/ Defence Science & Technology Organisation v Fax : 61-3-9626 8999 Voice: 61-3-9626 8658 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D --====S1ZzxGxasItfaKC2jsgrWKfqrLs_l==NG100000119==-- From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 14:01:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA17554; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:37:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA17541; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:37:21 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15786; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:36:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:36:37 -0500 Message-Id: <9707281336.AA15786@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi, barry coleman From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: intel's D8763-1 EPROM Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Barry Coleman wrote: > DIY_EFI list, > > This is my first post to this fascinating list and I have kept >silent until now because I wanted to ask a question that wasn't in the >archives already, so here is is: > > Does anybody on the list know the pinout/specs for this >EPROM? > >It is from my EEC-IV ("DC" calibration code, aka '88 SD SEFI 5.0HO). >This EPROM is in a weird 24 pin DIP package and it officially doesn't >exist. Thanks in advance. > > > > > >Barry Coleman a 351C w/SEFI...why didn't Ford think >of that? >fvoho@hotmail.com Barry, are you familiar with the eec-iv mailing list ?? I'm cc'ing your post to the eec-iv list to see is someone can help you out -- also, I'd like to hear any responses you get. Thanks, Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 14:01:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA17533; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:35:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from geocities.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA17528; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:35:50 -0400 Received: from mail.geocities.com (stamp.cowan.edu.au [139.230.127.130]) by geocities.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id GAA04298 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 06:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 06:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707281333.GAA04298@geocities.com> X-Sender: dzorde@mail.geocities.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: dzorde@geocities.com (dzorde) Subject: RE: Ignition Controllers Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Knock in my car sounds like someone sitting under the bonnet with a machine gun, you can even hear it when wearing a helmet during races. Makes you back off the throttle real fast. In my mates Alfa it just sounds like small ticks, bit like worn lifters. Dan dzorde@geocities.com > >>Have any one seen the instrument that Link is offering ? Its called >>Knocklink. >>Its made so You can tune it to hear pinging from different engines and it= >>s >>cheap to ($100,) > >That's pretty cool. Do you have more info? What does knock sound >like? > >-tim > > >Attachment Converted: F:\INTERNET\WINSOCK\EUDORA\INFILES\WINMAIL5.DAT > > From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 14:01:02 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA17555; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:37:28 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA17545; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:37:22 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15792; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:36:38 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:36:38 -0500 Message-Id: <9707281336.AA15792@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: RE: Ignition Controllers Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >.ddn coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu(diy_efi) >The shop manual for my Ford identifies the frequency of the knock sensor, >I would expect many of them do. > >Pat >PDONLEYCOTT @ VNET.IBM.COM > let's have a list of the known frequencies, please ..... Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 14:01:05 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id NAA17553; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:37:24 GMT Return-Path: Received: from peaches.ph.utexas.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id JAA17536; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:37:20 -0400 Received: from m198214180036.austin.cc.tx.us by peaches.ph.utexas.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA15780; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:36:36 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 08:36:36 -0500 Message-Id: <9707281336.AA15780@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> X-Sender: cloud@hagar.ph.utexas.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: cloud@peaches.ph.utexas.edu (Tom Cloud) Subject: Re: SV: Ignition Controllers Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > >Have any one seen the instrument that Link is offering ? Its called >Knocklink. I haven't, but would like to ..... tell us more .... like who is "Link" and how do we get in touch with them, etc >Its made so You can tune it to hear pinging from different engines and its >cheap to ($100,) > > >Stefan Tom Cloud From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 16:24:27 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA17782; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 15:56:10 GMT Return-Path: Received: from maila.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA17777; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:56:03 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by maila.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA01267 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:51:37 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from PPP.telia.com (t2o44p25.telia.com [195.198.42.85]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA02102 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 17:55:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <33DA4023.6EE8@bsrab.se> Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 20:21:23 +0200 From: Stefan Olsson Organization: BSR Sportsman AB X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: SV: Ignition Controllers References: <9707281336.AA15780@peaches.ph.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Tom Cloud wrote: > > > > >Have any one seen the instrument that Link is offering ? Its called > >Knocklink. > > I haven't, but would like to ..... tell us more .... like who > is "Link" and how do we get in touch with them, etc > > >Its made so You can tune it to hear pinging from different engines and its > >cheap to ($100,) > > > > > >Stefan > > Tom Cloud The company is called: Link Electrosystems Ltd and i think they are located in Australia (?) I will try to get there phone nr Stefan From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 21:25:14 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA19356; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:57:40 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ormail.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA19351; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:57:34 -0400 Received: from relay.jf.intel.com (relay.jf.intel.com [134.134.131.6]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id OAA23457 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 14:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by relay.jf.intel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id NAA01616 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 13:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.jf.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #8) Mon, 28 Jul 97 13:57:32 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 13:56:00 PDT From: Todd King Message-ID: To: diy_efi Subject: need a conversion Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Can soemone please email me the conversion for air mass flow of x grams per sec to volume flow of y cubic feet per minute? Thanks in advance. Todd tking@scic.intel.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 22:55:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA20100; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:22:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA20095; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:22:49 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EE1VGFDO001ZW@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:21 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:23:50 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:23:22 +1200 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:23:15 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: Knock sensors, was Re: Ignitition Controllers In-reply-to: <199707251533.IAA24666@apple.com> To: diy_efi Message-id: <27F088317C7@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Brian and everybody > 4 cylinder turbo-ford engines have 'em low on the side of the > inlet manifold. I speculate that they got a sensor of the frequency that > comes closest, and then optimised the location of the sensor to best > detect that frequency. Which 4 cylinder turbo the 2.3L or the 2L ? I have a 2L SOHC turbo if I can get a factory sensor I'd be very pleased. Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Mon Jul 28 22:55:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id WAA20086; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:21:50 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id SAA20081; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:21:45 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EE1VCPBQ001ZW@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:20 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:22:30 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:19:41 +1200 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:19:32 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: SV: Ignition Controllers In-reply-to: To: diy_efi Message-id: <27EF8C65795@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal References: <199707251909.VAA15568@d1o44.telia.com> Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All Link is a New Zealand company based here in Christchurch, as well as making complete engine management systems they also make knock/lambda displays. They sell systems in Australasia, Malaysia, California, England and Sweden. I have rung Philip to get his mail addy, he is going to mail me so that the addy is correct. Once he does this I'll post it. Link ElectroSystems Ltd. PO Box 9166 Christchurch New Zealand Ph: 0064 3 3488854 Fax 0064 3 3481595 If you get in touch with them tell them that you heard about them from this mailing list .......(I'm hoping for a discount when I upgrade ;-) Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 00:30:35 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id AAA20543; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 00:03:25 GMT Return-Path: Received: from trout.nosc.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id UAA20538; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 20:03:22 -0400 Received: from manta.nosc.mil by trout.nosc.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16097; Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:03:21 PDT Received: from nrad-annex.nosc.mil by manta.nosc.mil (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20088; Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:03:18 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 17:03:17 PDT Message-Id: <9707290003.AA20088@manta.nosc.mil> X-Sender: wurth@cod.nosc.mil X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: Roy Wurth Subject: cancel subscription Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi "cancel subscription" From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 04:15:51 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA20861; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 03:45:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from m8.boston.juno.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA20856; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:45:13 -0400 Received: (from bwmsbldr@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id XAG24979; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 23:44:16 EDT To: diy_efi Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:33:46 -0600 Subject: Subscribing to list Message-ID: <19970728.214527.3726.2.BWMSBLDR@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3 From: bwmsbldr@juno.com (William A Williams) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I was given this address for your list but was given no other data. I would like to participate but have no better way to contact you. Please excuse the intrusion. Tell me how to sign up please. Bill in Boulder ---- "Engineering as an Art Form" ---- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 06:31:18 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id GAA21092; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 06:04:19 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout13.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id CAA21087; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:04:15 -0400 From: A70Duster@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout13.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id CAA28565 for DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 02:04:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970729020413_1513241302@emout13.mail.aol.com> To: DIY_EFI Subject: The conversion Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I think I got it (going thru my Motimer's Chemistry Book). Air is 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen. The molecular weight of Nitrogen (diatomic molecule) is 28 g / mole. The molecular weight of Oxygen (also diatomic) is 32 g / mole. The molecular weight (roughly, using above ratios) is 28.6 g / mole. The are 22.4 moles of gas per liter (by experiment) at 0 degrees C and 1 atm. Using the Ideal Gas Law, the number above comes to 24.1 moles / L at 20 C. There is 28.3 liters per cubic foot (sees like alot). Now, mix it all together and x (g of air / sec) * (1 mole of air / 28.6 g of air) * (1 liter of air / 24.1 moles of air) * (1 cubic foot of air / 28.3 liters of air) * (60 seconds / 1 minute) EQUALS x (g of air / sec) * 1 / 325 = y (cubic feet of air / minute) So divide the grams of air per second by 325 to convert to cubic feet of air per minute. NOTE: With air flowing, this conversion will have a higher than actual reading in cubic feet per minute. That ol' compressibility of air comes in to smuck up everything. Thanks Bernoulli.... See ya, Mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 09:30:23 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA21610; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:12:16 GMT Return-Path: Received: from gate.volvo.se by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA21605; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 05:12:12 -0400 Received: by gate.volvo.se; id LAA26725; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:12:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from unknown(131.97.124.70) by gate.volvo.se via smap (3.2) id xma026698; Tue, 29 Jul 97 11:12:04 +0200 Received: from challenge by nike.volvo.se with ESMTP (8.6.12/1.37) id LAA25056; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:12:03 +0200 Received: from Mummin ([131.97.12.165]) by challenge (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id LAA12645; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:12:02 +0200 Message-ID: <33DDB3E2.CE2A42DE@vtd.volvo.se> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:12:02 +0200 From: Niclas Palmquist Organization: BMW Sport Club, Schweden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "bmw-digest@mailgate.wizvax.net" , "DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu" Subject: OBD-II X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by gate.volvo.se id LAA26725 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi there, I have some questions about the OBD-II system for BMW, and I hope some of You can help me. Are there any available and good place on Internet ? Where to find the failure codes, equipment to read the codes, information, etc. ? Or does any of You have any of this information to post ? Best regards Niclas Palmquist --=20 ______ o/______\o _\|/_ (oo=3DOO=3Doo) (o-o) ______[]------[]______________________________oOOo-(_)-oOOo____________ Niclas Palmquist BMW Club Schweden #2024 Gothenburg, Sweden 320i Coup=E9 -93 URL: http://www4.tripnet.se/~niclas e-mail: niclas@tripnet.se From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 13:09:47 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id MAA21919; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:59:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from rs232.bb-elec.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id IAA21914; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:59:56 -0400 Received: from mfahrion.bb-elec.com ([206.1.0.103]) by rs232.bb-elec.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14593 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:39:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199707291339.IAA14593@rs232.bb-elec.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Mike Fahrion" Organization: B&B Electronics Mfg. Co. To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:01:50 -600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: OBD-II Priority: normal In-reply-to: <33DDB3E2.CE2A42DE@vtd.volvo.se> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi The OBDII Bible is SAE's HS-3000 (1997), $79US. Available through SAE's home page at www.sae.org. I'd guess that the BMW uses ISO9141 type communications (one of the three "standards" allowed under OBDII) - contact CarComp (www.carcomp.com). They offer a ISO9141 to RS-232 product. If it uses J1850 VPW communications (I doubt it), contact me.... CarComp will be able to tell you if their tool will work on your car. The protocol and commands are (nearly) identical across the three types of communications, but the hardware varies drastically. I've got a bit of time invested in this OBDII thing, feel free to email me specific questions and I'll do what I can. Good Luck -mike > Hi there, > > I have some questions about the OBD-II system for BMW, and I hope some > of You can help me. > > Are there any available and good place on Internet ? Where to find the > failure codes, equipment to read the codes, information, etc. ? > > Or does any of You have any of this information to post ? > > Best regards > > Niclas Palmquist -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mike Fahrion mfahrion@bb-elec.com http://www.bb-elec.com/ B&B Electronics Mfg Co ph.(815) 433-5100 ext.215 fax (815) 434-7094 707 Dayton Road PO Box 1040 Ottawa IL 61350 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 15:51:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA22575; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:37:55 GMT Return-Path: Received: from marine.sonic.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA22570; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:37:51 -0400 From: sdelanty@sonic.net Received: from sub.sonic.net (sub.sonic.net [208.201.224.8]) by marine.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA08580 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:39:36 -0700 Received: from d185.pm5.sonic.net (d185.pm5.sonic.net [208.201.229.185]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA14104 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:37:47 -0700 X-envelope-info: Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 08:37:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199707291537.IAA14104@sub.sonic.net> X-Sender: sdelanty@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi Subject: Re: need a conversion Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > Can soemone please email me the conversion for air mass flow of x > grams per sec to volume flow of y cubic feet per minute? Thanks in > advance. Hugh Macinnes's book "turbochargers" gives the formula CFM * 0.069 = Lb/min This is corrected for an air temp of 85F and 28.4 in.Hg pressure. (density changes with temp and pressure) There's 453.6 grams per pound and 60 secs in a minute, so: 1 cfm * .069 * 453.6 = 31.298 grams/minute divide by 60 = 0.5216 grams/sec. so 1 CFM = 0.512 grams/sec or 1 gram/sec = 1.917 CFM (at 85F and 28.4 in.Hg....) Err, hope that's right... Happy motoring, Steve Delanty 1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 15:51:37 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA22613; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:42:13 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dns.box.bit-net.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA22608; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:42:11 -0400 Received: from localhost by dns.box.bit-net.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/30Jul96-0143PM) id AB15346; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:42:07 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:42:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Jody Shapiro To: diy_efi Subject: FYI: Fel-Pro fuel injection system Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Some comments from the f-body list re: Fel-Pro's new system: From: Jon Shoberg FEL-PRO, of all things a gasket company, is currenty in the first phase of testing thier Digital Fuel Injection system. I really know nothing about except that the intial reviews are really good. I got this bit of info when I mentioned it to a Summit Racing Tech Support person, when we had a bit of a tuning session. From: Bob Quinn The Fel Pro system is first class. It basically picks up where Accel DFI leaves off and gives you even more control. The extra control it gives you is way beyond the needs of any street car though. A lot of it has to due with advanced injector pulsing. It would definitely be of use to someone like the guys who have done work on my car. (Jim D'lessandro (7.70 247 cubic inch GN and Craig Radovitch 7 second Mustang) But they told me that the Accel DFI system would be more than adequate for a car like mine. I only know of one person that has the system anyway because he got it before you couldn't get it anymore. Fel Pro is being sued by Accel and Electromotive, if not a few other people for copyright infringement. They aren't shipping anymore until it is resolved I guess. So don't hold your breath. -Jody -- 97 Blue Vortech Z28 - 13.100 @ 108.98 http://www.bit-net.com/~jshapiro/z28/ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 16:10:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id PAA22667; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:56:22 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail.synergration.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id LAA22662; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:56:13 -0400 Received: by mail.synergration.com from localhost (router,SLMAILNT V2.2); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:03:01 Eastern Daylight Time Received: by mail.synergration.com from peters (209.38.34.57::mail daemon; unverified,SLMAILNT V2.2); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:02:59 Eastern Daylight Time Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:55:54 -0600 Message-ID: <01BC9C05.9AB82460.peters@synergration.com> From: "PeterS" To: "'diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu'" Subject: RE: OBD-II Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:55:51 -0600 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I too am looking at ODB-II for a BMW Z3 (97). I am in the process of putting together a VPW circuit based on the Harris chips. I'm surprised BWM would use the 9141 protocol, I would have expected either the VPW (10.4k) or the PMW (41.6k). I'll check out carcomp though to see what they have. Peter Shoebridge -----Original Message----- From: Mike Fahrion [SMTP:mfahrion@bb-elec.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 1997 2:02 AM To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Subject: Re: OBD-II The OBDII Bible is SAE's HS-3000 (1997), $79US. Available through SAE's home page at www.sae.org. I'd guess that the BMW uses ISO9141 type communications (one of the three "standards" allowed under OBDII) - contact CarComp (www.carcomp.com). They offer a ISO9141 to RS-232 product. If it uses J1850 VPW communications (I doubt it), contact me.... CarComp will be able to tell you if their tool will work on your car. The protocol and commands are (nearly) identical across the three types of communications, but the hardware varies drastically. I've got a bit of time invested in this OBDII thing, feel free to email me specific questions and I'll do what I can. Good Luck -mike > Hi there, > > I have some questions about the OBD-II system for BMW, and I hope some > of You can help me. > > Are there any available and good place on Internet ? Where to find the > failure codes, equipment to read the codes, information, etc. ? > > Or does any of You have any of this information to post ? > > Best regards > > Niclas Palmquist -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=- Mike Fahrion mfahrion@bb-elec.com http://www.bb-elec.com/ B&B Electronics Mfg Co ph.(815) 433-5100 ext.215 fax (815) 434-7094 707 Dayton Road PO Box 1040 Ottawa IL 61350 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -=-=- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 16:18:10 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA22700; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:08:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from hal-pc.org by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA22695; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:08:30 -0400 Received: from LOCALNAME (max1-171.hal-pc.org [209.16.24.171]) by hal-pc.org (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA12067 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:08:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <33DE31A7.7CC@hal-pc.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 11:08:39 -0700 From: "Robert W. Hughes" Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: DIY_EFI-Digest Subject: re: Knock sensors Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi The only knock sensor I have personally tested was for a 1986 Buick GN. I recorded several taps and digitized them with a sound board. The response was essentially white to above 10kc. Apparently the response tuning is done with filters in the electronics. I have also seen information that the knock frequencies peak in the 6-9kc band for most engines. The information on the Harris chip supports this also (broadband sensor and signal in the 6-9kc band). Things that hit the engine or rattle can cause false responses which is the reason for the elaborate filtering and two channel design of the Harris chip. Incidentally this GN sensor is convenient for testing various engines. It mounts with a 1/4 MPT stud so it can be used to replace a block drain plug. A decent cassette recorder can be used (with an attenuator - output is up to 5-6 volts PP for a tap and .1-.5 volt for normal running with the possibility of much more for things like rods hitting the block) to record the output, the sound board on your PC can digitize the recordings, and there are many FFT type programs available to see the results. -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering Houston, Texas From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 16:49:09 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA22767; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:38:44 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ns3.everett.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA22761; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:38:41 -0400 Received: from allnight (allnight.johnny-enterprises.com [205.134.193.214]) by ns3.everett.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA19986 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:46:25 -0700 Message-ID: <33DE1D43.64872D22@johnny-enterprises.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:41:39 -0700 From: Johnny Organization: Johnny Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; Linux 2.0.30 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: Subscribing to list References: <19970728.214527.3726.2.BWMSBLDR@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi William A Williams wrote: > > I was given this address for your list but was given no other > data. I would like to participate but have no better way to contact you. > Please excuse the intrusion. Tell me how to sign up please. > Bill in Boulder ---- "Engineering as an Art Form" ---- Send mail to: majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu In the body of the message put: subscribe diy_efi -j- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 17:00:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA22785; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:48:04 GMT Return-Path: Received: from marine.sonic.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA22780; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:48:01 -0400 From: sdelanty@sonic.net Received: from sub.sonic.net (sub.sonic.net [208.201.224.8]) by marine.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA23392 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:49:46 -0700 Received: from d185.pm5.sonic.net (d47.pm.sonic.net [208.201.229.47]) by sub.sonic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA26647 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:47:59 -0700 X-envelope-info: Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 09:47:59 -0700 Message-Id: <199707291647.JAA26647@sub.sonic.net> X-Sender: sdelanty@pop.sonic.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi Subject: Re: The conversion Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi >Air is 78% Nitrogen and 21% Oxygen. > >The molecular weight of Nitrogen (diatomic molecule) is 28 g / mole. > >The molecular weight of Oxygen (also diatomic) is 32 g / mole. Hey, what's the grams/mole of the 1% Argon? (-: Sorry my education ain't good enough to follow all the grams/mole stuff but the bottom line caught my eye: >So divide the grams of air per second by 325 to convert to cubic feet of air >per minute. So 325 grams per second only equals 1CFM?? Doesn't that make a cubic foot of air weigh about 43 pounds????! >NOTE: With air flowing, this conversion will have a higher than actual >reading in cubic feet per minute. That ol' compressibility of air comes in >to smuck up everything. Thanks Bernoulli.... Hey, I remember Bernoulli.. He got all those gas laws passed so He could invent the carburetor, right?? Just think how different gas physics would be if He'd invented EFI first... (-; Happy motoring, Steve Delanty 1971 F100 shortbox, FE390, T-18 4-speed From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 18:15:36 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id RAA23085; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:56:34 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dns.box.bit-net.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id NAA23080; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:56:32 -0400 Received: from localhost by dns.box.bit-net.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/30Jul96-0143PM) id AA23407; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:56:29 -0400 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:56:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Jody Shapiro To: fourth-gen@f-body.org, diy_efi Subject: Re: FYI: Fel-Pro fuel injection system (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Here's a response I got from someone who works at FP Performance... Hope to see someone trying out the FP Performance system as it looks quite good... -Jody ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Very interesting to see your post. Since I work for FP Performance (Fel-Pro), I can assure you that I am not aware of any lawsuits either pending or in progress. FP is in fact shipping units presently and the system is working out very well. The system FP offers is price competitive with the Accel systems and I believe the FP Performance system to be superior in quality, technology and performance. I'm sure Accel is not exactly pleased about the introduction of the FP system but I don't believe there is any legal coarse of action for them to take. You mentioned "copyright infringement". This implies that something was copied or duplicated. I can assure you that this isn't the case. From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 18:22:30 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id SAA23106; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:05:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from melete.ch.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id OAA23101; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 14:05:36 -0400 Received: from chmail.ch.intel.com by melete.ch.intel.com (8.8.6/10.0i); Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:05:33 GMT Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by chmail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id KAA04125 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:59:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.ch.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #2) Tue, 29 Jul 97 10:59:35 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Jul 97 11:04:00 PDT From: Mark Eidson Message-ID: To: diy_efi Subject: Re[2]: O2 sensor mounting Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Text item: FYI, I had the weld on boss welded to my cast iron exhaust manifold by my local machine shop. me ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: O2 sensor mounting Author: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu at SMTPGATE Date: 6/4/97 12:55 PM O2 sensors are 18 X 1.5 mm thread and use a crush washer like some spark plugs. You can buy a weld-on boss from Jeg's or Summit but it would have to go on the exhaust pipe itself and not the cast iron manifold. Mike M. ShadeTree Racing On Wed, 4 Jun 1997, Ron Madurski wrote: > : > : > :I have an exhaust manifold that does not have a tapped hole > :for an O2 sensor but their is what looks to be like a spot > :that is tapped out when this manifold was used on FI type > :engines. > : > :Does anyone know what is involved in tapping an > :O2 sensor hole? I think I read somewhere that you can't just drill > :it and tap it with a normal tap because of sealing issues > :between the sensor and the manifold once the assembly gets > :up to temp. Has anyone done anything like this? > : > > I got a boss for the O2 sensor from a speed shop and had it welded in to > my existing header. > > :Any and all comments welcome! > :TIA > : > :Greg Woods > :gwoods@symtx.com > : > : > > > -- > Ron Madurski > rmadursk@galaxy.galstar.com > Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative use and may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Reply-To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Precedence: bulk Sender: owner-diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <199706041826.NAA25502@galaxy.galstar.com> Subject: Re: O2 sensor mounting To: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From: Michael Manry Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from u04201@localhost) by rainfall.mwd.dst.ca.us (8.6.8.1/8.6.6) id M AA15748; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:55:29 -0700 Received: from rainfall.mwd.dst.ca.us by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (9 40816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA02366; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 16:02 :39 -0400 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA02371; Wed, 4 Jun 1997 20:02:42 GMT Received: from coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.8.4/10.0i); Wed, 4 Jun 1997 21:14:45 GMT Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (thalia.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by chm ail.ch.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02429 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 10:45:10 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: owner-diy_efi-outgoing@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 19:23:25 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id TAA23436; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:08:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from emout16.mail.aol.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id PAA23431; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:08:26 -0400 From: A70Duster@aol.com Received: (from root@localhost) by emout16.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id PAA12793 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <970729150824_76858910@emout16.mail.aol.com> To: diy_efi Subject: Re: The conversion - so sorry Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi So sorry, multiply g/sec by 1.79 to get CFM. I try to do reality checks myself but I don't always function well at 2:00 in the morning. See ya, Mike From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 20:40:48 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA23626; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:25:29 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mail-relay.ubc.ca by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA23621; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:25:26 -0400 Received: from brc.ubc.ca (koala.brc.ubc.ca [137.82.2.60]) by mail-relay.ubc.ca (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05850 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by brc.ubc.ca (8.6.12/SMI-SVR4) id NAA16841; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:24:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:24:45 -0700 (PDT) From: James Weiler X-Sender: james@koala To: diy_efi Subject: presure regulator needed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi Can anyone recomend a fuel presure regulator? It's got to work with a home made intake. I'm using D-section aluminum fuel rail so the regulator can either plug in via an O-ring or attach through a threaded fitting, I don't have a prefrence. My local speed shop has an adjustable Bosch for $150 Can ($100US). It doesn't need to be adjustable but it must make 45 psi (3 bar), which is the standard Ford rating. The Bosch item sounds a tad expensive. Is this price out of line ? thanks guys jw From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 21:04:03 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id UAA23784; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:49:57 GMT Return-Path: Received: from proxy-ext.corona.navy.mil by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id QAA23779; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:49:54 -0400 Received: by proxy-ext.corona.navy.mil; id AA13884; Tue, 29 Jul 97 13:49:38 PDT Received: from ns.corona.navy.mil(137.67.32.12) by proxy-ext.corona.navy.mil via smap (3.2) id xma013826; Tue, 29 Jul 97 13:49:11 -0700 Received: from yorke_r ([137.67.10.145]) by ns.corona.navy.mil (8.8.5/1.4) with SMTP id NAA03777 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 13:54:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.16.19970729134247.1d7f4030@smtp.deltanet.com> X-Sender: yorker@smtp.deltanet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (16) To: diy_efi From: "Robert E. Yorke" Subject: Re: FYI: Fel-Pro fuel injection system (fwd) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Jody: I read this post with interest; I've been trying to connect with Tom Jenkins of FP Performance all day to try to buy the EFI (They call it the "SEFI8LO Engine Management System"), but we seem to be playing what appears to be an endless game of phone tag. Can you provide me with the name and e-mail of the person who responded to you? Maybe if I can get directly to someone at FP Performance, I can finally order the thing....Tom Jenkins is apparently moving around so much that it's quite difficult to get to him. At 01:56 PM 7/29/97 -0400, you wrote: > >Here's a response I got from someone who works at FP Performance... > >Hope to see someone trying out the FP Performance system as it looks >quite good... >-Jody > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Very interesting to see your post. Since I work for FP Performance >(Fel-Pro), I can assure you that I am not aware of any lawsuits either >pending or in progress. FP is in fact shipping units presently and >the system is working out very well. The system FP offers is price >competitive with the Accel systems and I believe the FP Performance >system to be superior in quality, technology and performance. I'm >sure Accel is not exactly pleased about the introduction of the FP >system but I don't believe there is any legal coarse of action for >them to take. You mentioned "copyright infringement". This implies >that something was copied or duplicated. I can assure you that this >isn't the case. > > > Riverside, CA 2 '88 GTs! From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 21:28:30 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA23832; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:14:30 GMT Return-Path: Received: from kauri.lincoln.ac.nz by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA23827; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:14:25 -0400 Received: from whio.lincoln.ac.nz (whio.lincoln.ac.nz) by kauri.lincoln.ac.nz (PMDF V5.0-6 #1) id <0EE3MYIM6001ZW@kauri.lincoln.ac.nz> for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:13 +1200 (NZS) Received: from WHIO/SpoolDir by whio.lincoln.ac.nz (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:15:30 +1200 Received: from SpoolDir by WHIO (Mercury 1.32); Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:15:24 +1200 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:15:20 +1200 From: Simon Quested Subject: Re: Re[2]: O2 sensor mounting In-reply-to: <"Tue, 29 Jul 97 10:59:34 PDT_2"@ccm.ch.intel.com> To: diy_efi Message-id: <295E8094ED9@whio.lincoln.ac.nz> Organization: Lincoln University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi All > > :Does anyone know what is involved in tapping an > > :O2 sensor hole? I think I read somewhere that you can't just drill > > :it and tap it with a normal tap because of sealing issues > > :between the sensor and the manifold once the assembly gets > > :up to temp. Has anyone done anything like this? I tapped a hole in to my exhaust pipe just after the turbo. The pipe is 5mm thick and round, I haven't had a leak yet and the pipe gets red hot ( I'm going to put a pyrometer in there and move the O2 sensor down a couple of feet as I think it's too close) Cheers Simon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Simon Quested (E-mail questeds@lincoln.ac.nz) Computer Technician, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support Centre for Computing and Biometrics LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ http://www.lincoln.ac.nz/ccb/techs/simon/default.htm +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 21:29:01 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id VAA23840; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:16:27 GMT Return-Path: Received: from m8.boston.juno.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id RAA23835; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:16:23 -0400 Received: (from bwmsbldr@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id RDV15047; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:15:21 EDT To: diy_efi Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 15:12:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Subscribing to list Message-ID: <19970729.151632.3726.11.BWMSBLDR@juno.com> References: <19970728.214527.3726.2.BWMSBLDR@juno.com> <33DE1D43.64872D22@johnny-enterprises.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.38 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1 From: bwmsbldr@juno.com (William A Williams) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Thanks for the help. Bill in Boulder ---- "Engineering as an Art Form" ---- From owner-diy_efi-archive Tue Jul 29 23:23:42 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA24052; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:10:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from neuman.interaccess.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA24047; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:10:28 -0400 Received: from mweber.interaccess.com (d140.nhe.interaccess.com [206.183.79.140]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id SAA00511 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:07:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970729180840.006a9480@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: mweber@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:08:40 -0500 To: diy_efi From: Michael Weber Subject: Re: presure regulator needed In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi At 01:24 PM 7/29/97 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi > >Can anyone recomend a fuel presure regulator? It's got to work with a >home made intake. I'm using D-section aluminum fuel rail so the >regulator can either plug in via an O-ring or attach through a threaded >fitting, I don't have a prefrence. My local speed shop has an adjustable >Bosch for $150 Can ($100US). It doesn't need to be adjustable but it >must make 45 psi (3 bar), which is the standard Ford rating. The Bosch >item sounds a tad expensive. Is this price out of line ? > >thanks guys >jw > The Bosch 237 regulator is preset to 43.5 psi (but most test out to 45 psi). The regulator is standard on the 89 Turbo Trans Am and many FWD Olds and Buick cars with the 3.0L V6 ('86-?). I think the 3.3L V6 also has the same regulator. I will get the excat part number if interested. Michael J Weber mweber@interaccess.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 30 00:07:52 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id XAA24108; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:54:54 GMT Return-Path: Received: from ormail.intel.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id TAA24103; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 19:54:51 -0400 Received: from relay.jf.intel.com (relay.jf.intel.com [134.134.131.6]) by ormail.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA29969 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ccmgate@localhost) by relay.jf.intel.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) id QAA07057 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 16:54:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ccm.jf.intel.com (ccmgate 3.2 #8) Tue, 29 Jul 97 16:54:50 PDT Date: Tue, 29 Jul 97 16:52:00 PDT From: Todd King Message-ID: To: diy_efi Subject: Re: conversion Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi <<< So divide the grams of air per second by 325 to convert to cubic feet of air per minute. >>> Uh-oh- this means my MAF sensor peaks at only 255/325 = 0.70 cfm! I better hit the drawing board again; I have my turbo sized for 800+ cfm... :-) Todd tking@scic.intel.com From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 30 04:16:49 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA24828; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 04:00:45 GMT Return-Path: Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA24823; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:00:42 -0400 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id XAA01315 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 23:00:41 -0500 (CDT) Received: from nbw-nj11-29.ix.netcom.com(207.94.119.157) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id sma001271; Tue Jul 29 23:00:33 1997 Message-ID: <33DE3E4C.2753@ix.netcom.com> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 12:02:36 -0700 From: Ed or Jose X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-NC320 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: FYI: Fel-Pro fuel injection system References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi <<< No Message Collected >>> From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 30 05:10:58 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA24897; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 04:56:33 GMT Return-Path: Received: from statler.cc.wwu.edu by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA24892; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 00:56:30 -0400 Received: by statler.cc.wwu.edu (5.65/WWU-M1.0/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01739; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:56:27 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 21:56:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Seth To: diy_efi Subject: Re: presure regulator needed In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi On Tue, 29 Jul 1997, James Weiler wrote: > > Hi > > Can anyone recomend a fuel presure regulator? It's got to work with a > home made intake. I'm using D-section aluminum fuel rail so the > regulator can either plug in via an O-ring or attach through a threaded > fitting, I don't have a prefrence. My local speed shop has an adjustable > Bosch for $150 Can ($100US). It doesn't need to be adjustable but it > must make 45 psi (3 bar), which is the standard Ford rating. The Bosch > item sounds a tad expensive. Is this price out of line ? > > thanks guys > jw > JW Try the local wrecking yards- there are quite a few god yards in your area, and just to the south. I got mine free, but it is used. $100 US sounds high. Seth Allen Bellingham WA From owner-diy_efi-archive Wed Jul 30 09:33:00 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id JAA25282; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:24:53 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailout05.btx.dtag.de by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via SMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id FAA25277; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 05:24:49 -0400 Received: from fwd00.btx.dtag.de [194.25.2.160] by mailout05.btx.dtag.de with smtp id 0wtUvu-0003y8-00; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:20:39 +0200 Received: from funnel28.btx.dtag.de (02315310608-0001(btxid)@[194.25.2.29]) by fwd00.btx.dtag.de with smtp (S3.1.29.1) id ; Wed, 30 Jul 97 10:40 MET DST Message-Id: Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: HOCOM tec To: diy_efi Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 10:40:10 +1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Volkswagen/Audi Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.53/R1) X-Sender: 02315310608-0001@t-online.de (Felix Homburg) From: Felix.Homburg@t-online.de (Felix Homburg) Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Hi, does anyone now a Mailing-List for Volkswagen and Audi cars? Thanks Felix From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 31 03:07:44 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id CAA28206; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:55:59 GMT Return-Path: Received: from home.msys.net by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id WAA28201; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:55:56 -0400 From: sag@msys.net Received: from sag.msys.net (line11.msys.net [12.4.225.111]) by home.msys.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA25040 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:00:02 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970730225548.006a5cac@msys.net> X-Sender: sag@msys.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:55:54 -0400 To: diy_efi Subject: Re: presure regulator needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Summit cat #MAA-4309, $70 800-230-3030 upto 60psi rating From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 31 04:43:55 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id EAA28368; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 04:29:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from popmail.UCSD.EDU by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id AAA28363; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 00:29:24 -0400 Received: from JREED.extern.ucsd.edu (jreed.extern.ucsd.edu [137.110.226.9]) by popmail.UCSD.EDU (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id VAA07133 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199707310429.VAA07133@popmail.UCSD.EDU> From: "John Reed MD" To: Subject: 1977 Porsche (Bosch) CIS System Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 21:28:07 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Would appreciate any leads on educating myself on this Bosch System, and any hints on modifications for Racing application. Thanks, john reed From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 31 14:37:12 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id OAA29247; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 14:23:39 GMT Return-Path: Received: from deliverator.sgi.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id KAA29242; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:35 -0400 Received: from aspire.dearborn.sgi.com ([169.238.139.226]) by deliverator.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI.AUTO) via ESMTP id HAA20960 for <@external-mail-relay.sgi.com:diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu>; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 07:23:33 -0700 env-from (afgun@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com) Received: from mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com by aspire.dearborn.sgi.com via ESMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/930416.SGI) for <@aspire.dearborn.sgi.com:diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu> id KAA27694; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:03 -0400 Received: (from afgun@localhost) by mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) id KAA19490 for diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:22:03 -0400 From: "Andrew F. Gunnesch" Message-Id: <9707311022.ZM19488@mongoose.dearborn.sgi.com> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:22:02 -0400 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) To: diy_efi Subject: FS GM reman ECM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi I have a reman ECM same as GM p/n 1227748. Never used, as the problem turned out to be something else. Make me an offer if you're interested in it. No prom in it. andrew From owner-diy_efi-archive Thu Jul 31 16:33:13 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id QAA29509; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:19:02 GMT Return-Path: Received: from mailc.telia.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id MAA29504; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:18:58 -0400 Received: from d1o44.telia.com (root@d1o44.telia.com [195.198.42.241]) by mailc.telia.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA13641 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:18:56 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from u47000013 (t3o44p30.telia.com [195.198.42.150]) by d1o44.telia.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA01499 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:18:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199707311618.SAA01499@d1o44.telia.com> From: "Stefan Olsson" To: Subject: SV: 1977 Porsche (Bosch) CIS System Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:19:23 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailc.telia.com id SAA13641 Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi Buy or build an electronic system ! If You desperatly whant the CIS by the originalbooks from Bosch and Porsche. This system works very well originaly but when you are tuning the engine there is to many parameters to change. I have worked with this system for thousands of hours !! If You need further information send me a E-mail stefan.olsson@bsrab.se Best Stefan ---------- > Fr=E5n: John Reed MD > Till: diy_efi@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu > =C4mne: 1977 Porsche (Bosch) CIS System > Datum: den 31 juli 1997 06:28 >=20 > Would appreciate any leads on educating myself on this Bosch System, an= d > any hints on modifications for Racing application. > Thanks, > john reed From owner-diy_efi-archive Fri Aug 1 03:40:41 1997 Received: by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for diy_efi-outgoing id DAA00876; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 03:22:26 GMT Return-Path: Received: from wagner.mtco.com by coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu via ESMTP (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI) for id XAA00871; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 23:22:24 -0400 Received: from 169-20-206.ipt.aol.com (169-20-206.ipt.aol.com [152.169.20.206]) by wagner.mtco.com (8.8.5/8.5.9) with SMTP id WAA08488 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:22:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:22:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199708010322.WAA08488@wagner.mtco.com> X-Sender: pantera@mail.mtco.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: diy_efi From: pantera@pobox.com (David Doddek) Subject: Re: presure regulator needed Sender: owner-diy_efi Precedence: bulk Reply-To: diy_efi > >Hi > >Can anyone recomend a fuel presure regulator? It's got to work with a >home made intake. I'm using D-section aluminum fuel rail so the >regulator can either plug in via an O-ring or attach through a threaded >fitting, I don't have a prefrence. My local speed shop has an adjustable >Bosch for $150 Can ($100US). It doesn't need to be adjustable but it >must make 45 psi (3 bar), which is the standard Ford rating. The Bosch >item sounds a tad expensive. Is this price out of line ? > >thanks guys >jw > > Check out Mallory, the make a very nice adjustable one that attatches with 3/8 pipe for about $75. I bought mine from Summit racing. David Doddek pantera@pobox.com www.pobox.com/~pantera 217-422-3722 69 EFI Fairlane, 89 T-bird SC, 74 Twin turbo NOS EFI Pantera #6825 If you are going to go fast, go real fast.