Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System

["Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@bright.net>]

I've not seen a EST module other then what they might have called the box,
on some of the earlyCCC vans for spark timing.
  You mean ESC Module?.  If so it doesn't connect to the ignition module,
just ecm, and KS.
  The AL6 type units will ttrigger off of the pickup coil as I recall, but
there is no way to intervene with it's timing of the spark event.
Grumpy


| On big dizzy I belive so.  What does the est module and ecm hook up to on
| the distributor
| Mike Rolica
| Meridian Magnesium Products
| Strathroy, Ont
| Ext. 260
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Mark Romans [SMTP:romans@pacbell.net]
| Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 4:14 PM
| To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
|
| Can you replace the module with the msd with the electronic
| distributor and
| still have electronic timing control with the ecm?
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Mike Rolica <mrolica@meridian-mag.com>
| To: 'gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu'
| <gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
| Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 5:59 AM
| Subject: RE: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
|
|
| >Like bruce said try the module.  In the dizzy  For some reason the
| modules
| >seem to fry in the dissy with msd and all the time with cranes..
| acltully
| >with the msd you can rip out the module and hook the msd straight
| to the
| >pickup.  Msd also offers a conversion cap to make large dizzys ext
| coil.
| >Mike Rolica
| >Meridian Magnesium Products
| >Strathroy, Ont
| >Ext. 260
| >
| >
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: Mark Romans [SMTP:romans@pacbell.net]
| > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 12:39 AM
| > To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
| > Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
| >
| > I've got a MSD6AL, with Accell coil in cap. MSD box is hidden
| under
| >the
| > battery box.
| > It stalled on me 3x today.  All at idle or on deceleration.
| >Restarts fine.
| > Mark
| > -----Original Message-----
| > From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
| > To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
| ><gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
| > Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 9:36 PM
| > Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
| >
| >
| > >Ahh, get a MSD low resistance center bushing, and a good
| >aftermarket coil.
| > >MSD makes a kit for using a remote coil.
| > >  Better yet get a late model small cap distributor, and use a
| good
| >coil
| > >with that.
| > >Then might even use a good spark box.
| > >  I know not oem looking then, but worth it, IMHO.
| > >Using a remote coil late dissy, I have 230K miles on the original
| > >module........
| > >Grmpy
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >| Sorry Bruce:  Forgot to answer, large cap dizzy!
| > >| Mark
| > >| -----Original Message-----
| > >| From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
| > >| To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
| ><gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
| > >| Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 6:51 PM
| > >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
| > >|
| > >|
| > >| >
| > >| >It usually makes the engine surge wildly, when it applies, on
| >modified
| > >| >engines, even mild surge on stockers.
| > >| >  The mechanics are opening IAC, and adding fuel.  If bad
| enough
| >I think
| > >it
| > >| >might move the timing.
| > >| >Grumpy
| > >| >  You might just for grins try uping the BL to a higher number
| >for the
| > >idle
| > >| >stall thing.
| > >| >
| > >| >
| > >| >| I just rechecked and 700 rpm's for both GDF files, stall1
| and
| >stall2.
| > >I
| > >| >| wonder if that has something to do with stall saver rpm's?
| > >| >| Next question, what specifically does stall saver do?
| > >| >| Mark
| > >| >
| > >| >| From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
| > >| >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
| > >| >| >| Hey Bruce: If I disconnect my est connector, should I see
| >the
| > >advance
| > >| >at
| > >| >| >| 2500 rpm?
| > >| >| >Yes
| > >| >| >| I am wondering if this is why I have the idle problem.
| >Remember
| > how
| > >| >the
| > >| >| >| signal goes to zero advance?
| > >| >| >As I recall it did that during the stall and it was right
| at
| >400 rpm,
| > >| >which
| > >| >| >is when the ecm drops out of bypass, and it would read 0 as
| I
| > >understand
| > >| >| >things.
| > >| >| >The only failure I've personnally had or diagnosed with a
| gm
| >module
| > is
| > >| >hot
| > >| >| >stalling, and progressing to where the engine needs to cool
| >before it
| > >| >would
| > >| >| >restart.
| > >| >| >BTW, is yours a large or small cap Dissy
| > >| >| >Bruce
| > >| >| >| Mark
| > >| >| >| From: John T. Martin <gmman@eskimo.com>
| > >| >| >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
| > >| >| >| >My  $.02
| > >| >| >| >That is a normal condition, also a test for P/U coil
| >signal
| > >strength.
| > >| >| The
| > >| >| >| >advance is triggered by the P/U coil signal amplitude,
| not
| >RPM. It
| > >is
| > >| >a
| > >| >| >| back
| > >| >| >| >up as I understand it, but a good test if you suspect a
| >weak
| > magnet
| > >| in
| > >| >| >the
| > >| >| >| >dist. We had a run of K engines with shaft problems a
| >while back
| > >and
| > >| >in
| > >| >| >| >bypass (est disconnected), 2500 rpm the advance was not
| >triggered.
| > >| >Also
| > >| >| >the
| > >| >| >| >weak pick-up signal affects idle quality.
| > >| >| >| >Subject: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
| > >| >| >| >A question:
| > >| >| >| >With timing control connector disconnected (ie. setting
| >timing on
| > a
| > >| >| >| >165-based TPI motor), timing should sit still, which it
| >does for
| > me
| > >| at
| > >| >| >low
| > >| >| >| >RPM. However, when I idle it on up to say 2000 or 2500,
| it
| >seems
| > to
| > >| >| >advance
| > >| >| >| >like 12 degrees or so, instantaneously, and hold up
| there
| >until I
| > >| idle
| > >| >| it
| > >| >| >| >back down. Then it jump-returns to the previous value.
| >This is all
| > >| >| >| >timing-light based. Any thoughts on what is being seen?
| >There's
| > >about
| > >| >a
| > >| >| >1-3
| > >| >| >| >degree drift on idle-up, probably from timing chain
| >stretch, but
| > >| >that's
| > >| >| >not
| > >| >| >| >huge.
| > >| >| >| >Anyways, fishing for thoughts. It's not problematic,
| just
| >would
| > >like
| > >| >to
| > >| >| >| >understand what's happening and why.
| > >| >| >| >Sincerely,
| > >| >| >| >Craig
| > >| >
| > >| >
| > >|
| > >
| >
|