Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System

[Mark Romans <romans@pacbell.net>]

Yes, proud wearer of the newest and greatest CSH!
Me!
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Sunday, January 16, 2000 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System


>AND TONIGHT'S Winner of the CSH,  IS, tadaaa
>
>******Just glad to hear ya figured it out*****
>
>Ya wanna work on some of mine now  <g>...
>B
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Mark Romans <romans@pacbell.net>
>To: <gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 7:46 PM
>Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>
>
>| Well Bruce:  Your gonna love this.  Apparently I was causing my own
>problem.
>| Originally when I had a stalling problem I set the stall saver parms the
>| same % higher as I had raised the idle speed.  Shortly therafter I found
>the
>| hwy spark was being enabled and was causing the main problem.  I never
>reset
>| the stall saver parms back to stock.  I just did that and now the ecm
>isn't
>| retarding the spark at 725 rpm's it's back to stock which is 400 rpm's.
>| There are about 5 parms that are included in the stall saver section and
I
>| just set them all back to stock and I can slip the clutch with the park
>| brake set without stalling the engine.
>| Mark
>| -----Original Message-----
>| From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
>| To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
>| Date: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 2:23 PM
>| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>|
>|
>| >
>| >| Can you replace the module with the msd with the electronic
distributor
>| >and
>| >| still have electronic timing control with the ecm?
>| >
>| >No, you can triggger a MSD with an electronic dissy, but the dissy needs
>to
>| >have Vac/mech..
>| >Grumpy
>| >
>| >| Subject: RE: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >|
>| >|
>| >| >Like bruce said try the module.  In the dizzy  For some reason the
>| >modules
>| >| >seem to fry in the dissy with msd and all the time with cranes..
>| >acltully
>| >| >with the msd you can rip out the module and hook the msd straight to
>the
>| >| >pickup.  Msd also offers a conversion cap to make large dizzys ext
>coil.
>| >| >Mike Rolica
>| >| >Meridian Magnesium Products
>| >| >Strathroy, Ont
>| >| >Ext. 260
>| >| >
>| >| >
>| >| > -----Original Message-----
>| >| > From: Mark Romans [SMTP:romans@pacbell.net]
>| >| > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2000 12:39 AM
>| >| > To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
>| >| > Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >| >
>| >| > I've got a MSD6AL, with Accell coil in cap. MSD box is hidden under
>| >| >the
>| >| > battery box.
>| >| > It stalled on me 3x today.  All at idle or on deceleration.
>| >| >Restarts fine.
>| >| > Mark
>| >| > -----Original Message-----
>| >| > From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
>| >| > To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
>| >| ><gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
>| >| > Date: Monday, January 10, 2000 9:36 PM
>| >| > Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >| >
>| >| >
>| >| > >Ahh, get a MSD low resistance center bushing, and a good
>| >| >aftermarket coil.
>| >| > >MSD makes a kit for using a remote coil.
>| >| > >  Better yet get a late model small cap distributor, and use a good
>| >| >coil
>| >| > >with that.
>| >| > >Then might even use a good spark box.
>| >| > >  I know not oem looking then, but worth it, IMHO.
>| >| > >Using a remote coil late dissy, I have 230K miles on the original
>| >| > >module........
>| >| > >Grmpy
>| >| > >
>| >| > >
>| >| > >
>| >| > >| Sorry Bruce:  Forgot to answer, large cap dizzy!
>| >| > >| Mark
>| >| > >| -----Original Message-----
>| >| > >| From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
>| >| > >| To: gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu
>| >| ><gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
>| >| > >| Date: Sunday, January 09, 2000 6:51 PM
>| >| > >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >| > >|
>| >| > >|
>| >| > >| >
>| >| > >| >It usually makes the engine surge wildly, when it applies, on
>| >| >modified
>| >| > >| >engines, even mild surge on stockers.
>| >| > >| >  The mechanics are opening IAC, and adding fuel.  If bad enough
>| >| >I think
>| >| > >it
>| >| > >| >might move the timing.
>| >| > >| >Grumpy
>| >| > >| >  You might just for grins try uping the BL to a higher number
>| >| >for the
>| >| > >idle
>| >| > >| >stall thing.
>| >| > >| >
>| >| > >| >
>| >| > >| >| I just rechecked and 700 rpm's for both GDF files, stall1 and
>| >| >stall2.
>| >| > >I
>| >| > >| >| wonder if that has something to do with stall saver rpm's?
>| >| > >| >| Next question, what specifically does stall saver do?
>| >| > >| >| Mark
>| >| > >| >
>| >| > >| >| From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
>| >| > >| >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >| > >| >| >| Hey Bruce: If I disconnect my est connector, should I see
>| >| >the
>| >| > >advance
>| >| > >| >at
>| >| > >| >| >| 2500 rpm?
>| >| > >| >| >Yes
>| >| > >| >| >| I am wondering if this is why I have the idle problem.
>| >| >Remember
>| >| > how
>| >| > >| >the
>| >| > >| >| >| signal goes to zero advance?
>| >| > >| >| >As I recall it did that during the stall and it was right at
>| >| >400 rpm,
>| >| > >| >which
>| >| > >| >| >is when the ecm drops out of bypass, and it would read 0 as I
>| >| > >understand
>| >| > >| >| >things.
>| >| > >| >| >The only failure I've personnally had or diagnosed with a gm
>| >| >module
>| >| > is
>| >| > >| >hot
>| >| > >| >| >stalling, and progressing to where the engine needs to cool
>| >| >before it
>| >| > >| >would
>| >| > >| >| >restart.
>| >| > >| >| >BTW, is yours a large or small cap Dissy
>| >| > >| >| >Bruce
>| >| > >| >| >| Mark
>| >| > >| >| >| From: John T. Martin <gmman@eskimo.com>
>| >| > >| >| >| Subject: Re: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >| > >| >| >| >My  $.02
>| >| > >| >| >| >That is a normal condition, also a test for P/U coil
>| >| >signal
>| >| > >strength.
>| >| > >| >| The
>| >| > >| >| >| >advance is triggered by the P/U coil signal amplitude, not
>| >| >RPM. It
>| >| > >is
>| >| > >| >a
>| >| > >| >| >| back
>| >| > >| >| >| >up as I understand it, but a good test if you suspect a
>| >| >weak
>| >| > magnet
>| >| > >| in
>| >| > >| >| >the
>| >| > >| >| >| >dist. We had a run of K engines with shaft problems a
>| >| >while back
>| >| > >and
>| >| > >| >in
>| >| > >| >| >| >bypass (est disconnected), 2500 rpm the advance was not
>| >| >triggered.
>| >| > >| >Also
>| >| > >| >| >the
>| >| > >| >| >| >weak pick-up signal affects idle quality.
>| >| > >| >| >| >Subject: Timing Jump on 165/TPI System
>| >| > >| >| >| >A question:
>| >| > >| >| >| >With timing control connector disconnected (ie. setting
>| >| >timing on
>| >| > a
>| >| > >| >| >| >165-based TPI motor), timing should sit still, which it
>| >| >does for
>| >| > me
>| >| > >| at
>| >| > >| >| >low
>| >| > >| >| >| >RPM. However, when I idle it on up to say 2000 or 2500, it
>| >| >seems
>| >| > to
>| >| > >| >| >advance
>| >| > >| >| >| >like 12 degrees or so, instantaneously, and hold up there
>| >| >until I
>| >| > >| idle
>| >| > >| >| it
>| >| > >| >| >| >back down. Then it jump-returns to the previous value.
>| >| >This is all
>| >| > >| >| >| >timing-light based. Any thoughts on what is being seen?
>| >| >There's
>| >| > >about
>| >| > >| >a
>| >| > >| >| >1-3
>| >| > >| >| >| >degree drift on idle-up, probably from timing chain
>| >| >stretch, but
>| >| > >| >that's
>| >| > >| >| >not
>| >| > >| >| >| >huge.
>| >| > >| >| >| >Anyways, fishing for thoughts. It's not problematic, just
>| >| >would
>| >| > >like
>| >| > >| >to
>| >| > >| >| >| >understand what's happening and why.
>| >| > >| >| >| >Sincerely,
>| >| > >| >| >| >Craig
>| >| > >| >
>| >| > >| >
>| >| > >|
>| >| > >
>| >| >
>| >|
>| >
>|
>