Comment on the "Abbreviations" Thread Tizzy

[garwillis@msn.com (Garfield Willis)]

Please pardon my segue on the subject, but I didn't want to further
pollute what I think is on it's way to being another "keeper" thread.
This way, we don't mess with the "Abbreviations General EFI" goodie.

Gar


On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 18:04:33 -0400, "D. Barry Stubbs"
<z24man@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Maybe I'm missing something here. ...

Yup, you might be, but I'll forwarn you; you still might not think it's
a big deal even AFTER I try to explain it to ya. Depends on the person,
and perhaps how they wuz raised up. Kinda like toilet training. :)  So
YMMV.

But I'll try to tickle your curiosity and snag you in, by suggesting the
trouble may have all started not by what you *did* say in your post, but
by what you DIDN'T say. Read on if you care to. If not, hit the big
DELETE key; it's a free and pubic list, after all. :)

>Did I make personal gain from posting that compilation?  Nope.  My
>checkbook balance is just a sorry as it was yesterday (more so,
>actually).  Did I help a few people to understand technical literature
>and conversation more thoroughly?  You betcha.  Where's the harm in
>that?  I just checked the GMECM list description on www.diy-efi.org and
>can't find anything that, to me, says that the list is about keeping
>information to one's self for the possibility of making a dime.  It says
>that the list is to "... understand the operation of GM ECMs in great
>detail."

Note the above says "personal gain", not "monetary gain". That's quite
correct: I don't recall anyone posting anything about *monetary* gain.
Switch and flail at the straw-man, and at the *least* someone's going to
suspect you don't appreciate the difference. :)

Let's take an example I'm painfully aware of, both the reality AND
rotten frequency of, shall we? Suppose I take upon meself the burden of
trying to start up a systematic presentation of a particular topic that
I can contribute something on, in a hopefully significant way, in some
group, let's say on the art of origamy. Let's say I'm pretty
accomplished at paper-folding as an art-form; it ain't much in the
cosmic scheme of things alas, but it's me "thing" and let's say I took
some extensive classes in it (I'm picking an absurdly diverse example so
nobody thinks to read any more into this than intended :), and in the
course of list events, I offer up a pretty nice tome/compendium of
stuff, probly/certainly all known by someone somewhere, but still a nice
"summary" on say "folding paper butterflies". Let's suppose in addition
I invite me mates on the diy_origamy list to also try to make this
"summary" as rich and complete as we can: ya know, make it a real
"keeper" on the subject of paper butterflies. No thots of "ownership",
certainly obviously no thots of what you called "keeping information to
one's self" not either for 'secret society' purposes, nor certainly not
as you styled it "for the possibility of making a dime". Nope. Nothing
farther from anyone's mind; just a desire to get the "good stuff" we
enjoy, compactly into a nice gem of a package.

Some time passes, and lowNbehold, I see someone post this same
compilation on some other list, say the "craft_toys" list and the guy's
putting it out "matterOfactly" (no clear attribution of where it came
from, and that he's only a delivery boy) in hopes of posturing himself
as "a person in the know, with comprehensive chops on the subject at
hand". Someone to be looked up to for expertise on the subject. IOWs,
he's all about reaping what's often euphemistically referred to as
"psychic income". A PC term for a suckup plagarist who's trying to make
himself look smart by pretending someone else's labors are his own. He
doesn't outNout claim they're his own; he just fails to make clear
they're NOT just his own; fails to laud his collegues who made the thing
happen, and so by indirection and inference, take the credit for it
hisself. Getmedrift?

That's why I wonder about your choice of personal pronouns (singular
rather than plural) when you say/ask rhetorically:

>Did I help a few people to understand technical literature
>and conversation more thoroughly?  You betcha.

What's the "I" there for? Why didn't you AUTOMATICALLY think to rather
say, "Didn't WE (those who compiled the list in the first place) help a
few people to understand better by me posting it elsewhere?". You may
have made yourself (that "I") out as a good guy and illuminator of the
unwashed masses on those other lists, but what happened to the "WE, us
GMECM guys"? (Mind you, I'm not including meself in that we, cuz I'm on
the learning end when it comes to those abbrevs, meself). Was that a
mere slip, or a Freudian one? Beginning to see the picture? Not saying
all this "is so"; just trying to suggest HOW your post *might* have been
construed in an unexpectedly negative manner.

>Furthermore, the information contained in that compilation is, to the
>best of my knowledge, all in the public domain.  Those are abbreviations
>used in texts all over the automotive industry, as well as outside that
>industry.  If there truly is proprietary information contained in that
>compilation, I would certainly appreciate it being pointed out to me.

Wrong place for you to go defensive, methinks, but I'll answer it
anyway.

Not that it matters for real in this case, but to touch on something you
don't seem to be aware of, didya know that even a compilation of
well-known factoids can be copyrighted? The work involved in the
assembly and crafting of the mere presentation of the material is
something that's protected by copyright law. I know of what I speak; my
family's been in book publishing for over 350yrs. Yep, no typo, 350+ .
Copyright law is like oatmeal to me by now.

Like I said, it dudn't matter in this case since obviously nobody's
talking or caring about actual "intellectual property rights" in that
abbreviations list, but by the same token, you don't wanna go begging
the question that it's "all in the public domain", by proposing another
straw man, that just because the information contained in a publication
is well-known and available from public sources, that there isn't any
"added value" created simply from the act of compilation, be it created
by one individual or a whole cadre of comrades. Simple fact is there's
"good stuff" there that didn't exist until someone took the timeNeffort
to make it so. Remember, I know this is NOT an issue here, but you
brought up a common misconception I just LUV to stomp on, every chance I
get.

How bout this for a basal example; you make up a table of measurement
units and their conversion factors, and print it up. THAT is protected
by copyright law. Got it? NO, the claim isn't that the units of
measurement nor their conversions are anyone's "property", but copyright
law and the courts have recognized that there IS added value and
contribution made by mere "compilation" of well-known public facts.
Again, NOT in dispute in this case, but you raised it in your straw-man
argument above. No biggie, dood; I'm not making the mistake out as some
"war crime", just another example of what we've all done in trying to
make a point sometimes: overstated it with a flawed or erroneous
analogy/example.

>I can definantly understand Bruce's point of maintaining a central
>depository of information regarding EFI content.  I think I have
>enhanced that by placing the compilation in an email which will be
>archived for future observation by list members and non list members
>alike.  Whoever maintains the aforementioned central depository can now
>take a cleaned-up compilation, and dump it into an HTML editor and have
>a blast.

Sure, but with something like this, where there are some individuals who
INTENTIONALLY start out a thread as a "keeper/archiveable" thread, THEN
it seems only common sense for you to try to have some sense of
comradery by keeping it clearly to, "here's my mite added to the group's
effort". The other thing is, the tone of your defense above sounds
almost like you viewed your editing as some "final act" that "put the
finishing touches" on something that's then ready for achival or
conversion to HTML in your opinion, unless of course someone can find
something wrong with your production. That has a wiff of arrogance, if
ya ask me (which of course you didn't :). Who in all the people involved
in this "Abbreviations" thread ever suggested it was ready to be
declared "a wrap"?

Bottom line, AFAIK, is what was MISSING from your earliest postings, and
what STILL remains somewhat in doubt, is HOW was it you viewed/posted
that "combined effort of many on the GMECM list", to these other lists
you inhabit? Did you make it clear/explicit in all cases that this
*wasn't* YOUR authorship, but was "Compliments of the GM ECM group" that
you were just passing along. I noticed when you posted your
"final/corrected" compilation, you also didn't say, "OK, guys, I tried
to put all the pieces I could find together, tidy up...how does it
look?". You just seemed to say, well, here's your quote:

>The compiled list, as best I can make out.  Please let me know if I
>garbled or left anything off:

This sounds perhaps like the words of someone possibly kinda tryna "take
charge" or at least "sum up", sotaspeak. Why didn't you say something
like what I proposed above? I know, I know, you can say, "so what's the
diff?". But like I said, if ya don't get it, ya just don't get it.

What I think you could have said (and yes, I'll certainly allow as how
it could have simply been an oversight on your part not to say so) was,
"anyone have any objections to spreading this around some of the other
auto lists, as a goodie in progress, 'COMPLIMENTS OF the GMECM List
Denizens' ?". I'll betcha dollars to dohickeys if you'd just made clear
that LAST clause above, the response you received here woulda been
totally different. Instead of the response you GOT, it might have moved
on calmly to the discussion of why it's better to put it in HTML form on
the GMECM website, and have YOU just point to it there on whatever lists
you wish. That way it's something the group takes pride in
offering/showcasing to their automotive list brethren, as well as a
central place that can be corrected without being strewn all over
creation in separate copies.

Somehow a few guys got the impression you might be wanting to distribute
it in some way that made you come out looking like some individual
benefactor. You can protest all you want that you were misunderstood,
but then again, that presently just goes ta show ya something also may
have gone wrong in the delivery. OTOH, if you don't give a zip about
what those other guys think (I have my own list of such people I don't
pay any attention to either :), then it's totally no biggie. Just ignore
em.

One last finally gasp: I usually hate Dr. Laura sessions like this,
mostly because often the person waxing philosophical/psychological
usually (always?) has some hidden agenda, but claims objectivity. So
let's put it this way; I don't claim the above scenario is in any way
"objectively, necessarily, or obviously" even close to what went on in
the other guy's minds. I ain't pretending to speak for nobody but me.
All I know is, that's how it struck me, as someone who's repeatedly been
on the receiving end of suckups and plagarists. And that's not to say
your situation even *smelled more than a suspicious wiff* in that
direction. But since the world is such a smelly place, making an effort
to be CLEAR to others, who's opinions you DO care about, that you're not
heading in that direction, is sometimes the only protection to avoid
being suspected, and the worst construction being assumed or placed on
what you do or say. If you've ever been poisoned by some substance,
you'll understand how ACUTE one's senses become to anything that even
hints of being the same nasty crap.

In short, having been stuck in the back a few times by smooth-talkin,
smiley "warm handshake" characters who're just "here to help" or "just
wanna learn from you", you have a tendency to tune up your senses to
know when you might be walking on eggshells. Cuz being repulsed and
sickened by the poison, you wanna make double sure no one ever even
*suspects* you might have such slimey motives.

One final example so you don't think I'm just shootin the psycho-shit
breeze here. Remember when the guy recently asked about the Blitz AFR
device? And I responded that CharlesM had mentioned it to me recently,
which led me to go looking around for that Blitz JP site? WHY did I make
a point of saying WHO gave me the lead in the first place? Why hell, I
coulda put on aires of being God's gift to O2 sensing (which arrogance I
have been accused of before, naturally :), and stated matterOfactly,
"Oh, that's Blitz's brand new product offering; why it's SOOOO new that
there may not be a $US dollar price established yet. Here's their
corporate site in JP, and if you could read Japanese like I can (har
har), you'd clearly see their list price in Japan is 120,000yen". And
said nothing about Charles' friendly alerting me to this new gizmo. Not
to mention I'd be a complete shithead not to have thanked him for the
reference, it also would have been a thankless disregard for the
comradery that Charles showed me by mentioning it to me, in the midst of
some other commercial questions about EGOR, which he didn't want to ask
onlist. IOW, a GREAT way to make sure Charles doesn't EVER share
anything with me in the future! Geez, ego CAN be expensive if you try to
fake it amongst pals.

And finally, Barry, if the above blather sounds like it's coming from
some preppy amateur psychobabbler, I don't blame ya. Not knowing
anything more than what I saw/read (I didn't interview the respondents
like some groupie gossip so I really DON'T know what any of them think)
and the pretty surprising retorts (in terms of their forcefulness) you
got, I can well appreciate why you might feel maligned and totally
misunderstood.

All I'm saying is in cases where you're dealing with joint human
collaboration, sometimes you have to bend WAY over backwards to make and
keep the impression with your collegues solid, that you're joining them
in their endeavors just for the fun and personal benefit *of the
collaboration*, and not because you're some leech pretending to be
buddies just for what you can suck up. I'd bet you'd say "I'm most
certainly and clearly the former, and NOT the latter". Then let this lil
tempestINAteacup serve to point out how delicate friendly collaboration
can be sometimes. Next time, maybe OVERstate the case of you being just
oneOthe guys. Cuz even with the best of motives, there are so many turds
in this public punch bowl we call the world, that you can easily be
mistaken unless you fly your flag REAL high up thar.

I wish it were a better world, where such suspicions of motive were
merely psychotic, but it's not.

Garsophically speakin, o'course

P.S. If anyone thinks this posting is totally unrelated to DIY/GM/EFI
lists, I have only to point you to the events of the last month (not to
mention lots of ancient DIY hystery :) to prove otherwise. Besides, if
you read this far, you have no one to blame but yourself. :)  If you're
here for the long haul, these kinda things ARE useful to discuss. Just
me dos centavos, amigos. After all, wadawino?


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