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RE: Engine swap computer & wiring question



There were a few burnt down  cars  on the all weather mileage accumulation
dynos at  Amoco research Labs where I used to work
due to high catcon temps and trying to get enough cooling air over a
stationary vehicle doing 65 MPH. Testing is always fun.




> -----Original Message-----
> From:	alexpeper [SMTP:alexpeper@email.msn.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, July 12, 2000 4:37 PM
> To:	gmecm@diy-efi.org
> Subject:	Re: Engine swap computer & wiring question
> 
> Was testing a 2000 Mexican GM truck chassis auto.
> transmission with US engine and parts of a Romanian SUV
> body  in Feb. for federal certs.  Were in a big rush and and
> customer could not hook up transmission electronics.  On
> dyno driver is instructed to stay on driver trace no matter
> what.  I heard a very high reving engine at 56 mph and saw
> the exhaust system cherry red to the rear muffler and
> interior starting to smoke, so aborted test.  Transmission
> was in drive but never got out of 1st.  Must of also entered
> a rich default mode since engine sounded strong and sweet
> and had high modal emissions.
> Alex
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
> To: <gmecm@diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 2:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Engine swap computer & wiring question
> 
> 
> > Subject: Re: Engine swap computer & wiring question
> >
> > Somethings to look at:
> > The 96 uses a pcm.
> > They control the powertrain not just the engine, as in
> tranny shifting,  do
> > you think the oem tranny is going to last with this new
> engine?.
> > I'd think about going engine and tranny,  then just use
> the harness as a
> > whole,
> > For the dash end of it ya need to get the manuals and see
> what hooks to who,
> > and then what signals they are to see if they are the
> same.
> > If you go to a manual tranny was that an option with that
> engine?.  If not
> > you might spend some serious time getting things running
> right.
> > Any thing is possible, just some things not practical.
> > Man gotta know his limits, and then work on em.  ie, get
> all thenfo you can
> > (like your doing, but gotta dig for as much as ya can)
> > Grumpy
> >
> >
> > > Steve,
> > > Thanks for the tips.  Man, that Blazer must fly!  The
> reason this swap may
> > > get a little bit hairy is because I don't think I'll be
> able to use the
> > > entire harness out of the donor car because it will be
> an OBDII computer,
> > > and from what I understand, it's not easy to get a OBDII
> computer to
> > > function in an older car.  So do you think that my
> existing computer could
> > > control this new engine if I get a new EPROM module for
> it?  I already
> > have
> > > one from a '91 Z24 (It had a 3.1 v6), and I am hoping
> that it will work.
> > It
> > > may because the 3.4 is basically the same exact engine
> as the 2.8, except
> > it
> > > has revised heads, among a few other things.
> > >
> > > I know that the Cadillac Cimarron's digital dash does
> talk to the ECM,
> > > because I was going to put the Cimarron digital dash
> into my Sunbird...
> > > until I found that most of the info. for the gauges goes
> through the ECM
> > > before it gets to the dash.  This probably would mean
> that the Cimarron
> > > wiring idea is out of consideration, right?  The only
> reason I thought of
> > it
> > > was because the dash is physically the same in it, and
> it has a 2.8 mpfi
> > v6
> > > engine.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure exactly where the vss signal comes from in
> the Sunbird, I'm
> > > still working on getting a GM manual for this car.  I
> know that the
> > digital
> > > dash in my Z24 does, but that's a different application.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Tim De Coster
> > > '89 Z24 Conv.
> > > '88 Sunbird GT Conv.
> > > '98 Intrepid
> > > www.sunbirdconvertible.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "steve ravet" <sravet@arm.com>
> > > To: <gmecm@diy-efi.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2000 12:31 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Engine swap computer & wiring question
> > >
> > >
> > > > Tim, I'm not familiar with those models, but I have
> been through an
> > > > engine swap (replace 2.8L w/ 5.7L in my Blazer).  What
> is the concern
> > > > with the dash?  Is it electronic, and wants to talk to
> the ECM to get
> > > > MPG info or something?  If not then I don't think it
> matters too much.
> > > >
> > > > I'll talk about my swap some, it's probably similar to
> what you'll
> > > > find.  There are two places where wires cross from the
> engine
> > > > compartment to the inside of the vehicle.  One is the
> ECM harness, which
> > > > runs from the engine thru a hole in the firewall to
> the ECM behind the
> > > > dash.  This bit of wiring is almost completely
> isolated from dash/body
> > > > wiring.  Exceptions that I can recall are ALDL signals
> like data, TCC,
> > > > etc. that have to run over to the ALDL connector.  VSS
> also comes from
> > > > the dash in my app, not sure about yours.  Anyway, as
> long as you use
> > > > the ECM that comes with the engine there is no problem
> here, just splice
> > > > in the handful of wires for ALDL/whatever and the rest
> plugs right up.
> > > >
> > > > The other connector is the bulkhead connector.  The
> car side is anchored
> > > > to the firewall, the engine side comes from the engine
> bay.  When you
> > > > get your new engine it'll have it's own bulkhead
> connector, and there is
> > > > basically no chance that it will plug directly into
> the existing car
> > > > half of the plug.  Wires and signals here can be
> different even on the
> > > > same year model cars, depending on options etc.
> Fortunately there is
> > > > little/no engine wiring through here.  Typical things
> here are wiper
> > > > controls, A/C controls, power to and from fuse box,
> engine sensors that
> > > > go to dash gauges (but NOT ECM sensors, they are in
> the ECM harness),
> > > > etc.
> > > >
> > > > What you'll have to do is go to the junkyard and buy
> an engine side
> > > > bulkhead connector that is physically the same as
> yours (from the same
> > > > model car), and all the wires attached to it as long
> as possible.
> > > > You'll cut off the bulkhead connector from the new
> engine, and connect
> > > > the wires to the appropriate places on the junkyard
> bulkhead connector.
> > > > Use crimps, and then solder them, like the service
> manual shows.  The
> > > > junkyard connector may have blank places in it where
> yours has wires, in
> > > > that case you'll have to add pins and wires.  You
> could re-use your
> > > > current bulkhead connector but I wanted to leave the
> old engine as
> > > > intact as possible so I could sell it.
> > > >
> > > > You'll need a service manual/schematics for both the
> donor engine and
> > > > your car to properly match these up.  I spent probably
> 20 hours or more
> > > > sitting in front of the computer, going over the
> schematics, typing in
> > > > what went where, and double/triple checking all of it.
> Then I printed
> > > > it out and started cutting and twisting wires
> together.  I wrapped all
> > > > the twists with bright green electrical tape.  Lots of
> time but I had no
> > > > wiring errors to track down later.  Once it's working,
> take off all that
> > > > green tape, crimp and solder the wires properly, put
> them back in the
> > > > loom, tape it up nice, and off you go.
> > > >
> > > > All bets are off if the dash wants to talk to the ECM
> via ALDL, though,
> > > > like the digital dash vettes did.  hope yours isn't
> like that.
> > > >
> > > > You'll make the swap easier if you get the new engine
> intact with all
> > > > it's wiring, accessories, sensors, etc.
> > > >
> > > > write back if you have more questions.
> > > >
> > > > --steve
> > > >
> > > > Tim De Coster wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm new to this list, and have to admit that much of
> what goes on here
> > > is a
> > > > > little over my head.  I do however, have some advice
> to ask for.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have an '88 Sunbird GT with a 2.0 OHC non-turbo
> engine and am
> > > eventually
> > > > > going to install one of the '96+ 3400 OHV v6's.  My
> question is:  what
> > > is
> > > > > the best way to handle the wiring and computer
> change-over?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ways I have thought of:
> > > > >
> > > > > Getting the complete dash wiring and engine wiring
> from an '87 or '88
> > > > > Cadillac Cimarron (it had the same style dash and a
> 2.8 mpfi v6
> > engine).
> > > > > This way I would have the v6 wiring that I need,
> though the computer
> > > will be
> > > > > programmed for the 2.8.  I think it would work, but
> I'm not sure in
> > > > > real-life what sacrifices would have to be mad going
> this route.  I'm
> > > sure
> > > > > that I would have to run the engine in MPFI mode
> like the 2.8 is,
> > unlike
> > > the
> > > > > SFI mode that the 3400 was built for.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another idea was to use the existing dash wiring and
> computer that is
> > > > > currently in my Sunbird and getting the wiring out
> of a '91+ Chevy Z24
> > > that
> > > > > had the 3.1 v6.  I would then have to change the
> EPROM, but I'm not
> > sure
> > > if
> > > > > the engine wiring will plug right into the existing
> harness and
> > > computer.  I
> > > > > think the computer itself is the same, but this
> isn't confirmed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Getting a computer for the '96+ GM minivans or other
> GM vehicles the
> > > 3400
> > > > > came with is probably out of question because they
> use the OBDII
> > > computers
> > > > > which I understand are a pain as far as engine swaps
> are concerned.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any comments or suggestions on this would be VERY
> appreciated!
> > > > > If you're interested, check out my website listed
> below.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance,
> > > > > Tim De Coster
> > > > > '89 Z24 Conv.
> > > > > '88 Sunbird GT Conv.
> > > > > '98 Intrepid
> > > > > www.sunbirdconvertible.com
> > > > > www.z24convertible.com
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Steve Ravet
> > > > steve.ravet@arm.com
> > > > ARM,Inc.
> > > > www.arm.com
> > >
> >
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> > >
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