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RE: Ford injectors (& Question) MORE



He he.. actaually I'm running realy small heads..
AFR 190cc intake runners 55cc chambers (had to be milled.. were 58cc)
With 10cc dish pistons compression is abour 11.3:1

Whent to the track last night for test and tune.. first time I had truck on
the road..since head job (with all the parts on it)
Drivability tuning needs some major work... 


In 4x4 my 60' whent from 1.57 to 1.65 but I lowered my et from 12.8@ 112mph
to 12.35 @ 129 mph....

Big jump... still need to tune.. like steping on a mushroom in some
spots..wish I had an emulator
I'm happy.. extremely.....

85 white truck :-)
Mike Rolica
Plant A,
Magnesium Products Division
Strathroy

(519)-245-4040  Ext. 244



	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Bruce Plecan [SMTP:nacelp@bright.net]
	Sent:	Monday, August 21, 2000 11:25 PM
	To:	gmecm@diy-efi.org
	Subject:	Re: Ford injectors (& Question) MORE


	> Thanks for the verivication!
	>
	> The heads are Dart (Jegs cat 11311111) Pro-1 Alum, angled plugs,
200cc
	> intake runners, 2.02 / 1.60. Yea, I know.. you don't have to say
it.

	OK,
	but what cc are the chambers?.

	> Perhaps a superram is in my furure and still the head's intake
runners are
	> too large.

	Velocity velocity velocity.
	I made 320 easily with the oem vette ones at 175
	But, I think Mike R is running some largish ones,  with good
numbers.

	  10:1 CR and pump gas on nearly the stock ARAP binary (lots of
	> timing removed from 3400 to 4600 at high load) . full roller setup
L98
	> block, Timing at WOT is 19 19 18 18  with a 10 degree base
setting.

	Afterr rereading this, must be a smaller chamber head which is about
what I
	was running.

	 One
	> point seven five 60 foot time on 8.5 inch BFG drags. TORQUE TORQUE
TORQUE
	> I can stick with the 11 second 'trailer queens' for about 100 ft
:-))

	That's why I watch MPHs

	> More tuning and I'll be brave anough to post the binary.  Latest
adventure
	> is quickening the knock restore, and applying anti-launchspin
tweaks for
	> that mindless 'just nail it' take off.

	Is there any other?...
	Bruce
	>
	>
	>
	>
	> ----- Original Message -----
	> From: Bruce Plecan <nacelp@bright.net>
	> To: <gmecm@diy-efi.org>
	> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 7:09 PM
	> Subject: Re: Ford injectors (& Question) MORE
	>
	>
	> >
	> > > I analized the pulse widths that I am getting (383 CI TPI w/
stock 22#
	> > > injectors, 360 HP est) verses the max PW for a range of  RPM's
(3600 -
	> > 5500
	> > > : My "drag zone") and although I am seeing 13  ms pulses, they
occur
	in
	> an
	> > > rpm range that allow a maximum of 16 msec thus my duty cycle
times are
	> > FINE!
	> >
	> > Yep.
	> >
	> > > RPM/ MAX Allowable PW/ Measured PW /Measured Duty Cycle
	> > >
	> > > 3600     16.7     12.9     77.4
	> > > 3750     16.0     12.3     76.875
	> > > 3900     15.4     12.4     80.6
	> > > 4050     14.8     12         81
	> > > 4200     14.3     11.6     81.2
	> > > 4350     13.8     11.2     81.2
	> > > 4500     13.3     11         82.5
	> > > 4650     12.9     10.8     83.7
	> > > 4800     12.5     10.5     84
	> > > 4950     12.1     10         82.5
	> > > 5100     11.8     9.3     79.05
	> > > 5250     11.4     9.2     80.5
	> >
	> > > Conclusion:  My stock 22# TPI injectors are correctly sized
for my
	> stroker
	> > /
	> > > large tube / header / 13.1 E.T. setup, even though I have PW's
that
	are
	> > over
	> > > 10 ms.
	> > > Right or Wrong???
	> >
	> > 10 at 6K rpm, means your in trouble as well as 20 msec at 3K rpm
	> > Your DC (assuming your math is right) is fine.
	> > What heads, max timing ya running?
	> > Bruce
	> >
	> >
	> >
	> > > TIA (again)
	> > >
	> > >
	> > >
	> > > ----- Original Message -----
	> > > From: Dave Zug <dzug@delanet.com>
	> > > To: <gmecm@diy-efi.org>
	> > > Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 2:19 AM
	> > > Subject: Re: Ford injectors (& Question)
	> > >
	> > >
	> > > > Thanks Roger.. I see my mistake.  Much thanks.
	> > > >
	> > > > ----- Original Message -----
	> > > > From: Roger Heflin <rah@horizon.hit.net>
	> > > > To: <gmecm@diy-efi.org>
	> > > > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:50 PM
	> > > > Subject: Re: Ford injectors (& Question)
	> > > >
	> > > >
	> > > > >
	> > > > >
	> > > > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Dave Zug. wrote:
	> > > > >
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > So if I have this right, Let me write this in other
terms...
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > Lets say for example a car cruising is doing 5 ms pulses
at a
	> > constant
	> > > > 6000
	> > > > > > rpm (for math's sake).
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > Its pulsing like this:
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > each bit is 0.5 ms: (2 crank revs = 1 cam rev =20 bits).
20 ms
	> time
	> > is
	> > > > > > represented (4 engine "strokes").
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > 1111100000 1111100000 1111100000 1111100000 Left
	> > > > > > 0000011111 0000011111 0000011111 0000011111 Right
	> > > > > > <----------10 ms--------> <---------10 ms--------->
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > Alternating left and right for HALF the PW time each 10
ms to
	> > complete
	> > > > the
	> > > > > > full PW time within one CAM rev.
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > Then we go to WOT and for math's sake lets say we gain
no RPM's
	or
	> > > > fueling
	> > > > > > requirements.
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > Its pulsing like this:
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > each bit is 0.5 ms:
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > 1111100000 1111100000 1111100000 1111100000 Left
	> > > > > > 1111100000 1111100000 1111100000 1111100000 Right
	> > > > > > <----------10 ms--------> <---------10 ms--------->
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > Now to the (almost) REAL world.. Heres what WOT looks
like
	> (constant
	> > 9
	> > > > ms
	> > > > > > requirement) :
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > each bit is 0.5 ms:
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > 1111111110 1111111110 1111111110 1111111110 Left
	> > > > > > 1111111110 1111111110 1111111110 1111111110 Right
	> > > > > > <----------10 ms--------> <---------10 ms--------->
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > The above example has the injectors on IN UNISON for a
total of
	> (0.5
	> > > ms
	> > > > *
	> > > > > > 18) or 9 ms over each 10 ms (1/2 valvetrain cycle)
period. the
	> > listed
	> > > PW
	> > > > > > then repeats itself for the next 10 ms with no
recalculation
	> taking
	> > > > place
	> > > > > > (??) to complete the valvetrain cycle.
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > >
	> > > > > > Do I have it right?
	> > > > >
	> > > > > Close, I believe they actually pulse the given pulsewidth
at once,
	> so
	> > > > > when the computer says 9ms it actually opens it for 9ms,
and then
	> > > > > closes for 1ms, not (4.5ms, close .5, 4.5, close .5)   On
the
	> > > > > sequential cars it would list 9ms as 18 ms, and keep it
open for I
	> > > > > believe the entire time or almost the entire cam rotation.
I
	> don't
	> > > > > know if they alternate banks, I would need to look at the
code to
	> > > > > figure out that and how exactly it compares to the actual
cylinder
	> > > > > timing.  My guess is that it may not really even match up
	> consistantly
	> > > > > with the cylinder timing, just close enough, I suspect
also since
	> the
	> > > > > injectors have difficulties with being closed for short
periods of
	> > > > > time that that may be the reason to not even try to time
single
	> > > > > cylinder events, since this would required bigger
injectors to
	avoid
	> > > > > getting the close time too low.
	> > > > >
	> > > > > Roger
	> > > > >
	> > > >
	> > >
	> >
	>
	>
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	> > > >
	> > >
	> >
	>
	>
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