1227749 bits extracted from the archives:

1227730 w/ one missing quad driver, 1 additional inkector driver FET
1987-1990 2.0 OHC L4 PFI Turbo "M" LT3
Memcals: afdz, albk
Eprom: 27C128 or 27C256

--------------
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:17:23 EDT
From: ECMnut@aol.com
Subject: Re: ALDL Reported BPW

>  Does "BPW" mean the *base* pulse width before all the corrections are
>  multiplied in?  IOW, does it just depend on the injector constant?  The
>  readings might make more sense then, but then the readings wouldn't 
change
>  w/ changing inputs to the ECU that affect PW....???
>  
Whadaya mean?  We established that the 749 turbo code's
injector constant value is little more than a decoration.
I know there are other variables, but I was able to
impact PW from a these tables.
All 3 of these play directly into the final pulse width, and
return a value (via table lookup) in response to
to an ECM inputs (map, rpm, or both):
1) F29_TABLE   Base Pulse VE vs RPM And MAP Table 
     ("+10 to 15" in the high MAP regions did alot)
2) F30_TABLE   Base Pulse VE vs RPM Table (slight impact)
3) F61_TABLE   PE AF Ratio vs NTRPMX  Table (slight impact)
I gotta get a decent scope.  You're havin too much fun over there.
MV       Still lean..   I think my Walbro pump is dying after approx 2k miles
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------


Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 22:18:56 -0400
From: Shannen Durphey <shannen@grolen.com>
Subject: Re: '749 questions

EST is ecm output to module.  This is the ecm generated spark signal.

REF is the square wave input to the ecm from the module.  It's an RPM
signal.

Bypass allows the ecm to toggle the module between using and ignoring
EST.  If there is no voltage on Bypass, the module will fire the coil
based on the pickup coil pulses.  This is also the line to disconnect
to set base timing on a real engine.

Crank input is REF, no other needed, signal provided by the module in
both dizzy and DIS systems.

VSS inputs... The VSS has 2 output wires.  It's an a/c signal, the ecm
is connected to both wires.  Any signal buffering is internal to the
ecm.

Be sure to connect the REF LOW (black w/red tracer) between the module
and ecm.
Shannen

Just remember about if / when you starting trying to work with C/L, the 
ecm
   expects some what of a delay in response to some of the fuel 
corrections.
     98% of what I've wound up doing is with the 13-44-45 flags disabled.
     Or setting the C/L temp high.


$From: "Ron Gregory" <rgregory@chrysalis.org>
$Subject: ECM to start with..
$Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:30:14 -0600
I don't know if it's been decided yet (because I'm on
the digest version), but I think we ought to start with 
the 1227749 ECM and say.... off the top of my head...
a Syclone bin <grin>
The Syclone bin has the same code as the 2.0 turbo
cars (sunbird, etc.)... only the tables are different.
The Syclone bin has provisions for boost, so if you
ever put a blower on your engine, the code will be
there to take care of it.
The Syclone bin is on a 27C128, and it's pretty full.
But the '749 was also used on the '88 Quad-4
cars... and that's a 27C256.  We could take the
Syclone code/tables over to a larger PROM and
have plenty of room for expansion/improvement.
I already have quite a bit of documentation on 
the tables and the theory behind the code.  I
have run the bin through a disassember, but
haven't fully commented the code.
All we need to do is finish commenting the
code and begin to understand how the
code works.  We could find/fix any bugs and
gain a good understanding of this Delco ECM
before we move on to one that we don't have
as much info on.
If I'm not mistaken, Bruce P. has run a Syclone
PROM on a '730, too, so the folks that can't
find a '749 ECM would still be able to test
an the more-common '730 ECM.
Just my humble opinion as a Syclone owner
I'm on the digest, so if you're going to priase/
flame me, please copy me personally, so I
don't have to wait all day to see what you think.
Thanks,
~~~~~~
Ron Gregory                 Syclone VIN #1452
rgregory@iname.com          Garland, TX
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Mike Pitts:

The 7749 would be a *much* better candidate since it is 
faster, uses a 68HC11 rather than a 6801, has a fast data 
stream, is completely programmable (no embedded ROM), etc, 
etc.


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Eric Aos:

 looking at the 749, C0 at address 0009 seems to indicate 6
Cylinder, does anyone know the setting for 8 Cylinder?

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Ludis:

A dual bank 27C512 emulator
w/EPROM built with conventional RAM would require:
Each RAM bank needs to be a seperate 64KByte SRAM.  Each SRAM's 16
address lines need to be muxed between the ECM or PIC.  This will take
four "quad 2to1 muxes".  The RAM control lines also need to be muxed, so
add a fifth mux.  The ECM needs to be able to read (only) from either
bank, so add a pair of "quad 2to1 tristate muxes".  The PIC needs to
read and write either bank, so add a pair of octal transceivers.  Place
the EPROM on the ECM side of all this logic.  Two D flip flops can
syncronize the bank switching, one for a bank select, the other being an
EPROM select.  Clock the F/F's with the OR of the ~CS and ~OE signals
from the ECM.  The tristate mux can be enabled by ORing Q of the EPROM
select F/F with (~CS OR ~OE).  The EPROM can be selected similarly,
except using the notQ output.  The bank select F/F's Q and notQ can
drive all the mux selector inputs.
The chip count is:
 10  '157    muxes  (remember, two banks!)
  2  '257    muxes
  2  '245    transceivers
  1  '74     F/Fs
  1  '32     OR gates
  1  PIC     microcontroller
  1  MAX232  RS232 driver/receiver
Gee, this would be quite impressive, even when using SOP surface mount
parts!  Perhaps there are some DRAM controllers that could replace the
sea of '157's.
FYI, the P4's ('165, '727, '730, '748, '749) wire the EPROM's ~CS input
to ground.  The ~OE input is driven by the MPU.  It is asserted for
reads in the upper 32K of memory.  It is conditioned by an (MPU
internal) VMA, so location $FFFF will not be read during address
computation cycles.  ~OE asserts in the middle of the E low time.  It
deasserts upon the E high-to-low transition.  Thus, ~OE is high for only
about 120nS between back to back PROM reads (with a 2^21 Hz E rate.)
-- 


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Bruce:

The 749 can do Peak+Hold for four injectors, in oem form.

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$From: "Terry/Carol Kelley" <terryk@foothill.net>
$Subject: Re: 749 inna 730
$Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:06:22 -0800
Hi Andy,
I loaded the 749 code into the upper 16k of the 32K eprom. It ran.
The 749 is a 16k eprom, the 7730 is a 32k prom. The 68HC11 processor expects
the restart vector (where do I start running code?) at FFFE and FFFF. So the
16k of code needs to be loaded in the upper 16k so the restart vector is in
the right place.
The 749 has KNUMCYL for the number of cylinders, but from the wiring
diagrams, it doesn't use Cylinder Select (this is the grounding or floating
of an ECM input line). Cylinder Select is a wiring pneumonic, and KNUMCYL is
a software pneumonic.
Terry Kelley
terryk@foothill.net
1986 Olds Ciera GT 3800 Supercharged

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$Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 02:38:58 -0800
$From: Ludis Langens <ludis@cruzers.com>
$Subject: 16045154 chip info
[ Some of you may see this twice, I sent it to the wrong list. ]
To solve a VSS problem, I just investigated the '45154 chip in a 1227727
ECM.  This chip is used in the '7727, '7730, and '7749 ECMs.  It is
_not_ used in the '7165, '7748, and '7808.  Below is what I figured out
about this chip.
The '45154 is in a 28 pin PLCC package.  The MPU communicates with it
over the SPI peripheral interface.  It has both an input port and an
output port.  It also multiplexes the two styles of VSS input.  Here is
a partial pinout:
 Pin 8   Input bit, to bit %00000001 of the SPI byte.
 Pin 9   Output bit, from bit %10000000 of the SPI byte.
 Pin 10  Output bit, from bit %01000000.
 Pin 11  Output bit, from bit %00100000.
 Pin 12  SPI clock (from MPU).
 Pin 14  GND
 Pin 15  SPI ~CS (from MPU).
 Pin 16  ~LIMP, aka ~RESET.
 Pin 21  SPI MOSI (from MPU).
 Pin 22  Optical (aka digital) VSS input signal.
 Pin 23  Magnetic (aka analog) VSS input signal.
 Pin 26  Selected VSS signal (output).
 Pin 27  SPI MISO (to MPU).
 Pin 28  VCC
The input port bits are transferred to the SPI shift register on the
falling edge of pin 15.  The SPI shift register is transferred to the
output port on the rising edge of pin 15.  The SPI shifter is only 8
bits wide.  If the MPU attempts multiple byte transfers without
releasing pin 15, the previous output byte will simple loop back into
the MPU.
If pin 16 is low, the output bits and VSS mux select will be forced to
0.  Input bits can still be read via the SPI port though.
Bit %00010000 of the output byte selects between the two VSS sources. 
When this bit is set, pin 22 is routed to pin 26.  When clear, the
signal on pin 23 is divided by two - the result is output on pin 26.
Here is how the pins are connected in a '7727/'7730/'7749:
 Pin 8   From Quad Driver U20 pin 1, ~FAULT.
 Pin 9   To U24 ('64992, magnetic VSS interface) pin 10, DivisorA.
 Pin 10  To U24 pin 9, DivisorB.
 Pin 11  To U24 pin 8, DivisorC.
 Pin 12  From U1 (MPU) pin 50.
 Pin 15  From U1 pin 3, bit %10000000 of port $4002.
 Pin 16  From U13 (I/O buffer) pin 20, ~LIMP.
 Pin 21  From U1 pin 49.
 Pin 22  From U13 pin 12, complement of ECM optical VSS input.
 Pin 23  From U24 pin 5, magnetic VSS zero crossing.
 Pin 26  To U2 (TPU) pin 43, VSS1 capture @ $3FC2/$3FE0.
 Pin 27  To U1 pin 48.
The '64992 zero crossing output pulses whenever the magnetic VSS input
crosses zero volts.  This essentially frequency doubles the VSS signal. 
In magnetic VSS mode, the '45154 divides this back to the original
frequency.  The signal it sends to the TPU may, or may not, be in phase
with the ECM's magnetic VSS input.  The TPU "captures" this signal once
per cycle.  In optical VSS mode, the U13's VSS output is sent to the
TPU.  Because the I/O buffer inverts the signal, the TPU input will be
out of phase with the ECM's optical VSS input.
The '64992 outputs several digital VSS signals for use by cruise control
and the instrument cluster.  It has two 2000 ppm and two 4000 ppm output
drivers.  The '64992 can divide the VSS frequency before sending it to
these outputs.  The Divisor[ABC] bits select the divisor.  Note that the
ECM never sees this frequency division internally.  Here are the divisors:
 A B C
 0 0 0  Divide by 1   (ie for a 4000 ppm VSS)
 0 0 1  Divide by 9   (36000 ppm VSS)
 0 1 0  Divide by 7   (28000 ppm VSS)
 0 1 1  Divide by 11  (44000 ppm VSS)
 1 0 0  Divide by 6   (24000 ppm VSS)
 1 0 1  Divide by 10  (40000 ppm VSS)
 1 1 0  Divide by 8   (32000 ppm VSS)
 1 1 1  Divisor disabled, no output
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/

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hello,
The boost gauge is in parallel with the ECM on the Sunbird. Uses the same
map signal on pin F15 of the 749. Had a wiring diagram faxed to me today.
Email me if any more info is needed.
John
gmman@eskimo.com

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$Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 05:28:43 -0800
$From: Ludis Langens <ludis@cruzers.com>
$Subject: EPROM Emulator Proposal
The EPROM emulator debate on this list seems to be going in circles. 
Either people have short memories, or there are a lot of new members who
missed the discussion and decisions made in the first few weeks of
gmecm.  Either way, please read through the archives.
Anyway, here is an emulator proposal based on the prior discussion.  I
did some ruthless cutting of features and expandability (indicated with
a *).  I propose the use of a single dual-port SRAM (from Cypress or
IDT) and a 40/44 pin PIC microcontroller to load this RAM.  A battery
back up will keep the SRAM alive.  This allows an ECM to boot from the
DPRAM immediately upon power-up.  The whole emulator circuit board
should be small enough to fit inside a '165/'727/'730/'749/'808 ECM.
The DPRAM is split into two banks.  The PIC can read and write in either
bank.  It also controls which bank the ECM reads.  This allows the ECM
to execute out of one bank while the PIC writes into the other bank. 
Once a download is finished, the ECM can be switched instantly to the
new bank.  A 64Kbyte DPRAM allows emulating up to a 27256 EPROM.  A
128Kbyte DPRAM emulates a 27512.
128Kbyte DPRAMs are currently only available in an impossible to hand
solder 100 TQFP package.  Smaller DPRAMs come in 84 PLCC packages.  The
TQFP package is so much smaller than the PLCC that we can make a dual
pattern circuit board with the TQFP inside the PLCC.  This allows most
people to use a PLCC DPRAM.  Those few who need to emulate a 27512 could
have a circuit board company solder on a TQFP chip (*).  Perhaps in half
a year a 128Kbyte DPRAM will also be available in PLCC.
This emulator will not emulate a 27C010 or any other 32 pin EPROM (*).
The PIC can communicate with a laptop computer using a MAX233.  That's a
MAX232 without the external capacitors (this saves board space).  The
PIC doesn't have enough I/O lines, so only TxD and RxD signals are
supported (*).  If data handshaking is needed, it will have to be with
XON and XOFF characters.
To prevent the ECM from reading indeterminate data, the ECM side bank
select needs to be syncronized with ECM memory access.  A latch
controlled by the OR of the ECM's ~CS and ~OE signals will suffice. 
This can be built with six simple gates in two 14 pin chips.  The OR
gate needs to be an HCT part.
An EPROM reader is included in this design.  This allows reading out the
original EPROM/MEMCAL contents without a seperate EPROM programmer.  The
EPROM can be accessed by the PIC.  To allow 'hot socketing', the PIC can
shut off the EPROM's power.  Note that the ECM _cannot_ read this EPROM.
A 66 pin plug (which plugs into a MEMCAL socket) connects the emulator
to an ECM.  A 66 pin socket allows a MEMCAL to be piggy-backed onto the
emulator.  All the non-EPROM MEMCAL pins are wired 1 to 1 between the
plug and socket.  There should be enough room to also have 0.3"/0.6"
wide sockets for resistor packs and a ESC module removed from a MEMCAL. 
Additionally, 0.6" 28 pin DIP socket patterns can straddle the EPROM
pins of both the 66 pin plug and socket.  The former allows the emulator
to have a header for non-MEMCAL applications.  The latter is for reading
a seperate EPROM.
The ECM's A0-A15, D0-D7, ~CS, and ~OE connect directly to one side of
the DPRAM.  The address lines are shifted up by one so that the DPRAM A0
can be used for the bank select.
The PIC connects to the DPRAM and piggybacked EPROM/MEMCAL as follows:
RA0..RA1  A14..A15 (DPRAM A15..A16)
RA2       PIC RAM bank select (DPRAM A0)
RA3       ECM RAM bank select (ECM side DPRAM A0 via latch)
RA4       EPROM power control (active low) (RA4 is open-collector)
RA5       EPROM ~CS
RB0..RB7  A0..A7 (DPRAM A1..A8)
RC0..RC5  A8..A13 (DPRAM A9..A14)
RC6       TxD
RC7       RxD
RD0..RD7  D0-D7
RE0       ~OE (DPRAM & EPROM)
RE1       ~WE (DPRAM R/~W)
RE2       DPRAM ~CS
For the battery back-up feature, all the DPRAM inputs will need 100K (or
so) ohm pulldown resistors.  The DPRAM has two chip select inputs on
each side.  The second input can be controlled by the battery back-up
circuit.  This circuit still needs to be designed.  I don't have access
to the latest power controller chip data.  I think someone had a
proposal for this.  Note that the DPRAM needs to be fed 5 volts even
during standby mode.  Also needed is a VCC switch for the EPROM.  I
think a single FET would work.
This emulator is meant to emulate 28 pin EPROMs from the 2764 through
the 27512.  A 24 pin to 28 pin adapter cable would allow emulation of
2732 EPROMs for the C3 folks.
Is there enough interest for me to draw up a schematic in a few days? 
Someone else will need to draw up the power supply circuitry.  Following
that, circuit board artwork will be needed (David?).  If we decide to
proceed with this design, I should have time to write some code for the
PIC in a month or two.  Right now my top priority is assembling an engine.
BTW, this is seperate from the RAMCAL idea I mentioned a while ago.  I'm
ready to write some CPLD equations for that - once my engine is running.
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-


Bruce Plecan wrote:
Starting in 87, the valve cover and the turbo to throttle body pipe are
a very bright red.  You can recognize a '749 equipped Sunbird from ...
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   The 749 will fire 4 P+H
Grumpy
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In the 165/727/730/748/749/808/etc., the A/D is a seperate industry
standard chip on the SPI bus.  The upper four bits of the command byte
select one of 11 channels (or a 12th self test channel) for conversion. 
There is also a 19 channel version of this chip which uses the upper
five bits for a mux select.  Note that in the 727/730/749 GM uses a
seperate 8to1 analog mux feeding one of the 11 channels.  (Why didn't
they just use the bigger A/D?)
The SPI bus is full duplex.  Thus, at the same time as the command byte
is shifted out to the peripheral, a response byte is shifted in.  An A/D
conversion takes two of these transfers.  The first transmits the mux
select command (the received byte is ignored).  The second transfer
receives the conversion result (and a null command is sent).  Actually,
GM likes to send the self test command during the second transfer.  This
means that at the next A/D operation, the first received byte will be
for the self test channel.  This is sometimes checked and a code flagged.
Check the archives (diy_efi & gmecm) for a (partial) I/O map of the
165/727/730/748/749/808/etc.  Also check the '748 schematic on my web
pages.  The '748 is a reduced feature version of these other ECMs.
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/

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0x0332  KAFOPT1_7   Manual Shift Logic (On) / Automatic TCC Logic (Off)
Off    (stock syty)
0x0332  KAFOPT1_7   Manual Shift Logic (On) / Automatic TCC Logic (Off)
On    (stock sunbird)
So with this bit Off - shift light code/tables not used, this bit On, TCC
logic/tables not used.
Brian Green
Syclone 160
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MAP1volts out = Vref(.01059*[Kpa] - .10941)
MAP2volts out = Vref (.00500*[Kpa] - .04000)
Walt.
I
out.
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No, Scot simply upgraded his 1227727 to a 16149396 by populating three
empty locations on the circuit board.  The same sort of upgrade can be
done to a 1227730 and 1227749.  This extra RAM appears at $1800 through $1FFF.
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-


$From: "Ron Gregory" <rgregory@chrysalis.org>
$Subject: ECM to start with..
$Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:30:14 -0600
I don't know if it's been decided yet (because I'm on
the digest version), but I think we ought to start with 
the 1227749 ECM and say.... off the top of my head...
a Syclone bin <grin>
The Syclone bin has the same code as the 2.0 turbo
cars (sunbird, etc.)... only the tables are different.
The Syclone bin has provisions for boost, so if you
ever put a blower on your engine, the code will be
there to take care of it.
The Syclone bin is on a 27C128, and it's pretty full.
But the '749 was also used on the '88 Quad-4
cars... and that's a 27C256.  We could take the
Syclone code/tables over to a larger PROM and
have plenty of room for expansion/improvement.
I already have quite a bit of documentation on 
the tables and the theory behind the code.  I
have run the bin through a disassember, but
haven't fully commented the code.
All we need to do is finish commenting the
code and begin to understand how the
code works.  We could find/fix any bugs and
gain a good understanding of this Delco ECM
before we move on to one that we don't have
as much info on.
If I'm not mistaken, Bruce P. has run a Syclone
PROM on a '730, too, so the folks that can't
find a '749 ECM would still be able to test
an the more-common '730 ECM.
Just my humble opinion as a Syclone owner
I'm on the digest, so if you're going to priase/
flame me, please copy me personally, so I
don't have to wait all day to see what you think.
Thanks,
~~~~~~
Ron Gregory                 Syclone VIN #1452
rgregory@iname.com          Garland, TX
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Here is the dwell computation code from the SyTy (and turbo Sunbird)
program.  All the named locations are RAM variables except for
TachInterval which comes from the hardware timing chip.  Notice that all
of the constants are hard coded, none are read from the configuration
area.  (Question:  Are the SyTy and Sunbird distributor or DIS?)
This code fragment is invoked at 80 Hz
xD035   ...
        LDX     TachInterval    ;Hardware register
        LDAA    #255            ;Dummy huge ExtraDwell
        LDAB    Flags2F
        BITB    #bigMapIncrease
        BNE     @0              ;Force ExtraDwell := (TachInterval / 8)
        LDD     OldTachInterval ;OldTachInterval - TachInterval
        PSHX
        TSX
        SUBD    (X)
        PULX
        ASLD                    ;Double difference
        SUBD    ExtraDwell      ;Extra dwell if RPM increased
        BMI     @1
        ADDD    ExtraDwell
@0      STD     ExtraDwell
@1      PSHX                    ;TachInterval to D
        PULD
        LSRD                    ;TachInterval / 8
        LSRD
        LSRD
        SUBD    ExtraDwell      ;Limit ExtraDwell to (TachInterval / 8)
        BHS     @2
        ADDD    ExtraDwell
        STD     ExtraDwell
@2      PSHX                    ;TachInterval to D
        PULD
        STD     OldTachInterval ;Set new OldTachInterval
        LSRD                    ;Compute Dwell using TachInterval
        SUBD    #229
        BHS     @3
        ADDD    #308
        BRA     @5
@3      LSRD
        SUBD    #295
        BLO     @4
        ADDD    #382
        BRA     @5
@4      ADDD    #1527
        LSRD
        LSRD
@5      STD     Dwell
        LDAA    #120            ;Increase dwell at low volts
        DIFA    SensedVolts
        LDAB    #4
        MUL
        ADDD    Dwell           ;Combine all terms
        ADDD    ExtraDwell
        STD     Dwell
        LDD     TachInterval    ;TachInterval - 39
        SUBD    #39
        SUBD    Dwell           ;Limit Dwell to (TachInterval - 39)
        BHS     @6
        ADDD    Dwell
        STD     Dwell
@6      ...
This code fragment slowly reduces ExtraDwell to zero.  It is executed
once per ignition event (up to 80 Hz).
xCE2F   ...
        LDD     ExtraDwell      ;ExtraDwell / 8
        LSRD
        LSRD
        LSRD
        COMA                    ;- (ExtraDwell / 8) - 1
        COMB
        ADDD    ExtraDwell      ;ExtraDwell - (ExtraDwell / 8) - 1
        BPL     @9
        CLRD
@9      STD     ExtraDwell      ;Decay ExtraDwell to zero
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-

$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:00:44 EST
$Subject: WAS MAF History, now why not 749
Hi Andy,
When Richard Tomlinson wrote PromGrammer, his focus
(and test vehicle) was a 6 cyl Syclone turbo.  If you use a 
hex editor to change the byte, it will then display as 8 cyl
in the program.    True, you cannot edit that byte from within
PromGrammer.  Using a hex editor, change the "C0" at location 
0x00009 to "00" for eight cylinder.
As for 1 bar vs 2 bar,  I forget the actual value.  Refer to the 749 Docs
for that.  Per promgrammer, the location and name info are:
~~~~~~ snip ~~~~~~
     0x0334      KAFOPT3_5       2 ATM MAP Option     
~~~~~ end snip ~~~~                                   
The Syclone & Sunbird Turbo chips will have the same value there.
If you are afraid to be a "pioneer" on this, someone else will prolly
do something similar in the near future.  You can bet the fuel related
tables will need significant work after changing the MAP option byte
from 2 to 1 BAR.
HTH-  MV
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-


TK wrote:
The SyTy / Turbo Sunbird code appears to be derived from the Fiero
6869/7170 speed-density code.  I haven't looked at the SyTy code all
that much, but every part I have looked at is almost a line-by-line copy
of the Fiero code.  

-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-


Also, every 4 cyl Sunbird I've ever seen used HEI.

-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 10:55:26 EST
$Subject: Re: 165 MAF and 808 MAP - differences for turbo apps?
Hi Pat,
Sorry, stepped in late, but 87-90 Turbo Sunbird 2.0L  4cyl is 
VERY similar to syty 91-93 4.3L  6cyl. Same offsets in chip too.
Can set byte for 3,4,6 or 8 cylinders.  Is 2 bar MAP from factory,
but can be upgraded to 3 bar with help from gurus on Syty list.
Mike V
91 Syclone
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-

-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@bright.net>
$Subject: Re: Sunbird wiring
$Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 04:30:12 -0500
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cwagner@info2000.net>
To: <gmecm@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>; <diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:19 AM
Subject: Sunbird wiring
For wiring try the FTP
For a hac go to syty@syty.org and get promgrammer
Grumpy
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-

-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: "Scott Flanagan" <flanaj@mindspring.com>
$Subject: 1227749 EEPROM Type
$Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:00:19 -0500
While at the junkyard the other day I luckily came accross two '88 Pointiac
Grand Am Quad 4's.  They have the 1227749 with the uncommon Integrated
Direct Ignition.  I am trying to work with an old reader, but I am not too
sure what type of chip it is, or if it is too odd to read.  The chip in one
of the ECU's has the number 27C256 on it, that is an original chip, which
does not have a window for erasing.  My reader says it can read an I27256
but it can't read it at all.  The other ECU is a remanufactured one, the
chip does not have any numbers on it that are useful, but it does have a
window for erasing things, my burner can read it but the information is
garbled.  When loaded into Promgrammer it has some wacky values such as 0
cylinders, etc.  Also, this is probably a dumb question but do you have to
unsolder the chip from the long brown carrier?  Right now I have an adapter
that I made that connects the brown carrier to the reader.  Thanks, I am
very excited that I could finally find these ECU's and complete harnesses.
                            -Scott Flanagan
'80 Fiat Spider (Awaiting new FI and Turbo)
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-

Date:          Thu, 15 Sep 1994 04:39:31 -0400
Reply-to:      imagecft@netcom.com
From:          imagecft@netcom.com (Richard Man)
To:            Multiple recipients of list <robot-board@oberon.com>
Subject:       (Commercial) HC11 C Compiler
Version 1.02 of the compiler is ready. Also note that there is now a 
mailing 
list for discussing icc11 and general HC11 programming issues. 
// richard
====
**** Professional HC11 Tools At a Budget Price! ****
The ImageCraft HC11 C Compiler, ICC11, version 1.0
ICC11 is a high quality yet low cost compiler package that runs on 
DOS and 
OS2 environments. Included in the package are:
. A comprehensive 90 page manual.
. A fast near-ANSI C (*) conformant compiler with built-in peephole 
optimizer.
. Quality code generation. Code size is typically only 5% to 20% 
larger than 
  expensive ($500 to $1200) compilers. 
. Assembler, linker, and librarian.
. Standard C header files and library functions.
. HC11 specific support such as embedded assembly, pragma for 
declaring 
  interrupt functions, etc.
. Calling conventions compatible with other compilers.
. Both 16 bit and 32 bit executables.
. Technical support over the Internet, including a mailing list for 
  discussions and product update information.
. MIT Interactive C compatible multitasking kernel library.
. Miniboard library.
, Coming soon! Add-on low priced multitasking executive with 
subsumption 
  architecture semantics.
Price: $39.95, plus $3.95 shipping and handling within the U.S., $5.00 
S&H to 
Canada and $10.00 overseas. CA residents please add 8 1/4% sales 
tax. 
To order, please send a check or money order (international orders 
may use a 
"postal" check in U.S. dollars) to:
    ImageCraft
    P.O.Box 64226
    Sunnyvale, CA 94088-4226
    (408) 749-0702
Please direct email inquires to: imagecft@netcom.com. To join the 
mailing list,
send the message "subscribe icc11-list" to listserv@netcom.com.
----
(*) The following ANSI C features are not yet supported, but most are 
expected 
    to be released at some future date:
. Long data type is only 2 bytes, although limited 32 bit support is 
provided
  through typedef and library calls.
. The compiler does not yet support floating point code generation.
. A not quite full set of C library functions is supplied, but most of the 
  missing functions are not applicable to embedded applications.
. The preprocessor does not support trigraphs, and it only uses K & R 
macro 
  rescanning rules.
**** End ICC11 Announcement ****
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-

I'd highly recommend
the Hugh McInnes book TURBOCHARGING-

-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-

Electronic boost control can be established really cheap by getting a wastegate
modulator valve off a '86-'87 Buick GN. It takes a variable pulse width and
an input pressure line from the manifold and outputs a variable pressure based
on the pulse width. Feed this pressure back into a conventional screw-type
wastegate, and you have the control you seek.  The '91-'92-'93 Syclone/Typhoon
also uses this, as does some of the Sunbird turbos I think.

-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
'87-'90 2.0 liter Turbo cars [VIN engine code "M"] 
     Sunbird, Skyhawk, Calais, Grand Am, Skylark 



-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: peter paul fenske <pfenske@direct.ca>
$Subject: Re: Turbo Sunbird
$Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:46:58 -0800
Hi Mike
Depends on flavor.
If it is a C3 ecm, two ecm connectors, the chip is enclosed
in a black plastic holder and is a 27C32 at least it can
be read this way..
If it is in the Big blue package with the 60 pin connector
It is a 27C128. Sometimes they are 27C256s also
You need to make a cheapy adapter to read the package.
Just so the eprom plugs into the adapter
For the C3 invoke you checksum function from 0002 to 0FFF
The bytes should be the same as 0000,0001
For the P4 big blue invoke the checksum function in your
programmer from 0008 to 3FFF for the 16 k and
0008 to 7FFF for the 32 K
The bytes should be the same as 0006,0007
tnx again Peter
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 12:19:06 -0800
$From: Carl Summers <InnovativeTechnologies@worldnet.att.net>
$Subject: Re: Turbo Sunbird
Michael J Weber wrote:
Should be a 27c256.....
-Carl Summers
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-

-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:10:27 -0600
$From: "John A. Hess" <johnhess@cris.com>
$Subject: Re: Turbo Sunbird
The "special" adapter is not all that complicated.  Just get yourself a PC board
IDE header,. cut it to the number of pins that the EPROM actually uses (28), and
spread the pins to fit your EPROM ZIF socket.  Works fine and lasts a long time.
H8carbs wrote:
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:53:31 EST
$Subject: Re: AN Fittings
Bruce,
sorry, that was supposed to go to Peter.
I was trying to remember the name of the meeeen motor
cycle gang in the old Beach-Blanket-Bingo movie.
Enjoyed the part-throttle cruising notes..
Have you checked out the Sunbird doc yet?
All of the parameters in the Sunbird Turbo chip
line up perfectly with the SyTy chip.  Did I send
you the address dump from PronGrammer?
It lists all the addressses down the left hand side...
Mike V.
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:43:10 EST
$Subject: Re: GM 1227148 ECM Question
In a message dated 98-02-13 13:31:31 EST, you write:
<< Why wouldn't you want to use a 1227749, that was used
 with the 4's..
Uhh... I'm not sure how make it work with a distrbutorless engine.
 The Turbo Sunbird & Syphoons had distributor caps & one coil.
I'm not sure about the quad-4s that used that ECM...
If thet were distributorless, I better ake a closer look.
I think many Quad 4s used something other than the 749...
Thanks
I'm always trying to get out of any work!
Mike V
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut <ECMnut@aol.com>
$Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:14:04 EST
$Subject: Re: [Fwd: Syclone/Typhoon Stuff]
In a message dated 98-03-03 12:19:35 EST, Joe Boucher writes:
91-93 Turbo 4.3 Syclone engine, and Sunbird 2.0 Turbo, 88 & later
should make sense using their programs.  That's it.. Offsets are hard-
coded..  Interesting reading though..
They are batch fire..... 2 Bar MAP....Distributor cap...single ext. coil..
Don't know if it has been done yet...  _Looks_ very possible.. 
Are you thinking, maybe a twin turbo EFI Camaro?? <grin>
There is a byte in the chip (see the programs) to set it for 3,4,6 or 8 cyl..
Bruce can get HD chin straps for cone shaped hats too..
hth
Mike V
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:24:50 +0000
$From: steve ravet <steve@sun4c409.imes.com>
$Subject: Re: Pin out and wiring info on GM (85 Sunbird) ECU
Dave Chu wrote:
You want to start by calling HELM and ordering the service manual for
the Sunbird that equipment came from.  You'll get schematics, pinouts,
and all sorts of useful information.  It'll cost probably $80, but it's
well worth it.  A cheaper option is to purchase a service manual CD from
alldata.  You can get one for about $20, but it's really really not as
good as the manual.  the schematics are slow to display, and it's not
organized very well.  Take a look at www.alldata.com
--steve
--
Steve Ravet
International Meta Systems
http://www.imes.com
steve@imes.com
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
Subject: Re: drag race corolla update caution long
re-mapped.
The 89 Turbo Trans Am is a 1227148 MAF same as the 86-87
GN.  The syclone, typhoon, sunbird (some) use the 1227749, MAP.
At the GN-Ttype area they have tweaker, which allows you to modify
some of the prom, and at www.syty.org (I think)  they have promgrammer, for
the syty proms.
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut <ECMnut@aol.com>
$Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:24:18 EDT
$Subject: Re: Same MPU, different proms
I'd like it if anyone can shed some light on the issue
for us newer members...
If I go to the boneyard and find a 7749 ECM from a
Quad-4, it will have a 256k prom in the carrier.
If I get a 7749 from a Turbo Sunbird, it will have a 128k prom...
How does the  ECM know where to load the prom into memory?
It the answer in the other chip(s) in the carrier?
Thanks,
Mike V
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut <ECMnut@aol.com>
$Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 09:22:22 EDT
$Subject: Re: MAP sensor from a turbo car
In a message dated 98-05-27 08:18:03 EDT, you write:
<< 
 Hmm.. have the box here somewhere....
 AC Delco #213-16
 Then a finer number 10096129
 2 bar map sensor..
 Fits Syclone & Typhoon (and I think 89 & up TurboSunbird) 
 HTH
 Also: it is a separate unit that you can bolt down, and run the 
wiring & vacuum line to..  Around $50-$60 US I think..
Mike V
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: "Stowe, Ted-SEA" <StowT@PerkinsCoie.com>
$Subject: RE: VSS & 730 ECM
$Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:52:37 -0700
could I get a speed sensor from these folks for my upcoming 85 sunbird tbi
installation ? it needs a speed sensor as well ?
thanks, Ted.
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Boucher [mailto:BoucherJC@lmtas.lmco.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 1998 9:00 AM
To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Re: VSS & 730 ECM
Wow!  I changed the subject line!
About 3 years ago I found this place for an inline speedometer cable VSS.
United Speedometer
1-800-877-4798
At that time it was $51 for the unit and $6 for shipping to the DFW area.
They have 2000 and 4000 pulse
units.  They called them 2 and 4 pulse units.
Joe Boucher
'70 RS/SS Camaro  '81 TBI Suburban
(low) and
and four
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: "Ron Gregory" <rgregory@chrysalis.org>
$Subject: Injectors and ECMs
$Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:54:44 -0500
I have a buddy that has gone completely overboard with
his Syclone.  We are now running out of injector.  He
wants to go with huge injectors.  He also wants to go with
the new Felpro SEFILO8 ECM, because the guy that sold
him his camshaft said the stock ECM wouldn't work....
I want to prove him wrong by using the stock ECM and
maybe he'll give me some of the $2400 for helping....
We are working on a GMC Syclone... using the
Delco 1227749 ECM.  This is the same ECM that was
used on the '87-90 turbo 2.0 'M' cars [Sunbird].  This
ECM has two injector drivers, but from what I've 
already learned, it only uses one injector driver.
So, does that mean that all six injectors are fired at once,
or does that one driver fire for each bank????
Does anyone know if the turbo S-bird only used one driver, too?
Or did it use both... and had different wiring... some pins the Sy
doesn't use...
My buddy just bought a set of six 55 lb/hr Seimans low-ohm
fuel injectors [cheaper than a set of MSD high-ohm injectors]...
yes... *before* I got all the answers... as usual...
Someone [a turbo Regal expert] told him that all he had to
do was swap-out the injector drivers.... maybe for a GN, but
I doubt a Syclone... noone listens to me...
Are low-ohm drivers intended to drive only one injector?
Is it true that the low-ohm injectors are more stable... flow more
predictably?
Would it be worth the effort to build a small interface board to
drive those low-ohm injectors via the current driver on the
ECM?  What would that buy us?
Would putting that 10-ohm resistor on each low-ohm injector 
buy us anything other than the ability to use the injectors that
he already bought... if that?
I don't have [any of] the answers... please help...
[pick all tha apply]
*  get high-ohm injectors, 'cause they aren't bad
*  go with Felpro ECM and low-ohm injectors
*  build a board to drive low-ohm injectors with
   GM ECM..
*  check caller-ID box and don't answer the phone
   any more when that clown calls back
Thanks,
~~~~~~
Ron Gregory                 Syclone VIN #1452
rgregory@iname.com          Garland, TX
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:35:53 +1100
$From: Richard Wakeling <kojab@ar.com.au>
$Subject: Re: Injectors and ECMs
Hi Ron,
Ron Gregory wrote:
This is what I believe to be correct.
Yes all injectors fire at the same time. Saturation method
The Sunbird turbo uses two drivers. Two injectors on each driver using
peek and hold method.
 and had different wiring... some pins the Sy
Yes the Sunbird turbo used c10 and c11 as injector outputs.
Whereas the Syclone used c11 and c12 which are joined inside the ECM.
On the Sunbird:
c13 and c15 were jumpered to add a .1 ohm resistor to the source and to
ground for one of the injector drivers to operate in peek and hold.
d5 and d6 were also jumpered to add another .1 ohm resistor to the
source and ground for the second injector driver again to operate in
peek and hold.
This would probably be the ideal situation.
In my experence low-ohm injectors which are usualy driven peek and hold
are more stable at small pulse widths so idle is usually more stable
with larger injectors with low z injectors driven peek and hold.
   
This is one option.
 What would that buy us?
This does work but it is not as good as running them peek and hold.
If you don't use the 10-ohm resistor the injectors and drivers will
overheat and probably give you an intermitant code 42.
The problem using the 10-ohm resistor is you are not getting the full
and correct drive across the injector.
There maybe a possibily that you could drive three injectors peek and
hold from each of the drivers. Don't forget the Sunbird is driving two.
The injector loom would have to be modified so you had two seperate
circuits. The injector wiring then would have to be the same as the
Sunbird turbo ( with jumpers) so the only other question is will both
drivers get the nescessary signals from the Syclone software.
Cheers Richard.
sorry about the spelling.
 
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:55:03 EST
$Subject: Re: Tcc and Fan questions
Hi Rick,
I'm not sure about the TCC lockup, but one of the "cooling fan"
sections is actually for turning the 12 volt pump on / off that
circulates coolant through the liquid intercooler / chiller
setup..   Not really a fan motor at all...
That is for the Turbo 4.3 V6...  Turbo Sunbirds
had no intercooler..(notice much the lower boost)..
Are you using a Syclone or Turbo Sunbird bin?  If not,
the program will be useless to you...
HTH
Mike V
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:39:25 EST
$Subject: Re: volvo turbo CIS ->Sunbird Turbo EFI?!
Hi Jesse,
Ya probably wanna check out syty.org (download section) and get
Richard's PromGrammer software.  It is specifice to the Turbo sunbird,
Syclone & Typhoon...   The above cars use a two bar sensor, but
syty list members have been debugging a 3 bar chip that looks 
encouraging, if you like >16 psi..  You didn't mention an interrcooler.
HTH
Mike V.
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: H8carbs <H8carbs@aol.com>
$Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 18:44:51 EST
$Subject: Re: Turbo Sunbird
In a message dated 97-12-31 17:48:16 EST, you write:
<< > I have access to an '88 Sunbird turbo chip and I have an EPROM Burner but
I
 > don't know the style of the chip to read it.
 >  >>
This one is a 27128.  You'll need to use an adapter as Peter mentioned,
to connect to the 14 pairs of pins at the EPROM-end of the carrier. 
Mike V
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:10:27 -0600
$From: "John A. Hess" <johnhess@cris.com>
$Subject: Re: Turbo Sunbird
The "special" adapter is not all that complicated.  Just get yourself a PC board
IDE header,. cut it to the number of pins that the EPROM actually uses (28), and
spread the pins to fit your EPROM ZIF socket.  Works fine and lasts a long time.
H8carbs wrote:
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
From: Shannen Durphey <shannen@grolen.com>
To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu <diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: Holley 4tbi to 7747
The 730 has one P+H driver, ie 87 2.0L vin1.  Needs a repin to use it, and
it's for a single injector.
The sunbird turbos+Q4 used the 749 and it has 2 drivers each able to drive
two injectors.
The 749 Promgrammer is $15.95, no longer freeware.
Bruce
7749 has a real nice free-ware
in a
homework.
above?
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@bright.net>
$Subject: Re: L-jetronic mods
$Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:38:36 -0400
While lots of folks laugh at Fiats, they happen to be very well designed,
for what they are intended to be.
Anyway:
My suggestion is go to a junk yard and snag a 1227749, and just start with
that.
The Bosch while nice is going to get rare, and the Air Door will jam from a
back fire (just a matter of time, IMHO).
  The 1227749 is what is used in the GM syclones, and uses a 2 bar
calibration, MAP sensor, so you don't run out of "table space".  There is a
$15 prom editor at the syty home page..
  By using the Sunbird chip it's for 4 cylinder to begin with.
  Can be wired for P+H, or Saturated injectors.
  Other than checking to see if the TPS is a 0-5v signal, and VSS
compatability,
might be easier then where your headed..
  I'm not in favor of hammering the calibration from NA to 7 PSI,
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 20:36:07 EST
$Subject: Re: Delco for a Toyota
In a message dated 2/9/99 7:16:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
darkmonahue@awwwsome.com writes:
 
 The 87-90 Turbo Sunbird 2.0 used the same ecm.  If I were to do
 that swap (with that ECM), I'd buy a Sunbird PROM to start with.
 It's close in terms of displacement, and it would probably
 run decent before any tweaking.  You should try to get the
 TB and sensors from the turbo sunbird if possible too.
 Haven't done it, just speculating...
HTH
Mike V
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
-<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-
$From: "Ron Gregory" <rgregory@chrysalis.org>
$Subject: Turbo P4 doc
$Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:08:35 -0600
I *found* a Delco document on the '88
Turbo Sunbird.  The Syclone/Typhoon
just happen to run the same algorithms.
In fact, they both use the 1227749 ECM.
This document describes the bi-directional
8192 serial interface protocol for the
Turbo P4 cars along with a bunch of
other stuff...
I scanned it in, and sent it to Richard
Tomlinson (author of Promgrammer)
He OCR-ed it, and I created a table of
contents etc.
It's not perfect, but it should
give you and idea of how the Turbo P4
operates.  Some of the sections are gone.
If you happen to have any of those sections,
please contact me.
http://members.home.com/syclone/Turbo_P4_Doc.pdf
~~~~~~
Ron Gregory                 Syclone VIN #1452
rgregory@iname.com          Garland, TX
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$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 09:32:05 EST
$Subject: DIS w/ '749 .bin,  GM did it..
The same 749 box was used in just about all
of the '88 Quad-4 applications the General produced,
with (I think) DIS..  I never saw a a Q4 with a dissy...
Anyway, it sounds like the the 749 has the hardware
to do what you want, but the Sy bin has the wrong code
for the app.  Unfortunately, none of the offsets are the same
in the Q4 PROM as the Sy chip..  It's a 256 instead of the 
Syphoon/Sunbird 128 chip.
Lemme know (off list) if a Q4 749 bin is required.
HTH
Mike V
In a message dated 2/11/99 5:42:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tedscj@aol.com
writes:
be
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$Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:04:57 -0800
$From: Ludis Langens <ludis@cruzers.com>
$Subject: Re: EST observations (kinda long)
Tedscj@aol.com wrote:
The problem is that the other edge may "move around" at different RPMs.
Here is the dwell computation code from the SyTy (and turbo Sunbird)
program.  All the named locations are RAM variables except for
TachInterval which comes from the hardware timing chip.  Notice that all
of the constants are hard coded, none are read from the configuration
area.  (Question:  Are the SyTy and Sunbird distributor or DIS?)
This code fragment is invoked at 80 Hz
xD035   ...
        LDX     TachInterval    ;Hardware register
        LDAA    #255            ;Dummy huge ExtraDwell
        LDAB    Flags2F
        BITB    #bigMapIncrease
        BNE     @0              ;Force ExtraDwell := (TachInterval / 8)
        LDD     OldTachInterval ;OldTachInterval - TachInterval
        PSHX
        TSX
        SUBD    (X)
        PULX
        ASLD                    ;Double difference
        SUBD    ExtraDwell      ;Extra dwell if RPM increased
        BMI     @1
        ADDD    ExtraDwell
@0      STD     ExtraDwell
@1      PSHX                    ;TachInterval to D
        PULD
        LSRD                    ;TachInterval / 8
        LSRD
        LSRD
        SUBD    ExtraDwell      ;Limit ExtraDwell to (TachInterval / 8)
        BHS     @2
        ADDD    ExtraDwell
        STD     ExtraDwell
@2      PSHX                    ;TachInterval to D
        PULD
        STD     OldTachInterval ;Set new OldTachInterval
        LSRD                    ;Compute Dwell using TachInterval
        SUBD    #229
        BHS     @3
        ADDD    #308
        BRA     @5
@3      LSRD
        SUBD    #295
        BLO     @4
        ADDD    #382
        BRA     @5
@4      ADDD    #1527
        LSRD
        LSRD
@5      STD     Dwell
        LDAA    #120            ;Increase dwell at low volts
        DIFA    SensedVolts
        LDAB    #4
        MUL
        ADDD    Dwell           ;Combine all terms
        ADDD    ExtraDwell
        STD     Dwell
        LDD     TachInterval    ;TachInterval - 39
        SUBD    #39
        SUBD    Dwell           ;Limit Dwell to (TachInterval - 39)
        BHS     @6
        ADDD    Dwell
        STD     Dwell
@6      ...
This code fragment slowly reduces ExtraDwell to zero.  It is executed
once per ignition event (up to 80 Hz).
xCE2F   ...
        LDD     ExtraDwell      ;ExtraDwell / 8
        LSRD
        LSRD
        LSRD
        COMA                    ;- (ExtraDwell / 8) - 1
        COMB
        ADDD    ExtraDwell      ;ExtraDwell - (ExtraDwell / 8) - 1
        BPL     @9
        CLRD
@9      STD     ExtraDwell      ;Decay ExtraDwell to zero
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/
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$From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@bright.net>
$Subject: Re: 749 inna 730
$Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:59:38 -0500
-----Original Message-----
From: andy quaas <realsquash@yahoo.com>
To: gmecm@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu <gmecm@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: 749 inna 730
No, the 730 uses one injector driver, and shares two pins for the injectors.
The 749 has two injector drivers and can be set as a single saturated
injector driver
like in the syclone, or as a dual Peak+Hold like in the Sunbird Turbo (that
used the 749),
or like in the Quad 4 (that used the 749).
It can take a ton of work to work out a calibration!.
If anyone thinks the reading the archives is time consuming you won't
beleive how much time you can invest inna calibration.
Bruce
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$From: "John T. Martin" <gmman@eskimo.com>
$Subject: Re: Turbo Sunbird GT Boost Gauge wiring? 
$Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:29:37 -0800
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry/Carol Kelley <terryk@foothill.net>
To: gmecm@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu <gmecm@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 5:47 PM
Subject: Turbo Sunbird GT Boost Gauge wiring?
Anybody have the wiring for the Sunbird turbo boost gauge?
Terry Kelley
1986 Olds Ciera GT 3800 Supercharged
hello,
The boost gauge is in parallel with the ECM on the Sunbird. Uses the same
map signal on pin F15 of the 749. Had a wiring diagram faxed to me today.
Email me if any more info is needed.
John
gmman@eskimo.com
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$From: Tedscj@aol.com
$Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:58:30 EDT
$Subject: Re: DIS, HEI, and PITAs
I Tried some things with the DIS today.
First, I made sure the DIS was at least responding to the original DIS .bin 
(from a '91 Sunbird) and it was.
Then I just started from the beginning trying to adjust different things with 
the SyTy .bin.  I kept notes and I will paste them right here.
 The changes I made to the .bin were NOT accumulative.  The changes made were 
ONLY those mentioned in each line.  Except for the Main Spark Table.  1-5 the 
table was zeroed out completely  6< the table was 0 for everything below 
2000rpm and 30degrees for everything above 2000rpm (so that any advance would 
be obvious.)
1 - 5 : Main Spark Table zeroed out.
1. no changes except for above:   ran about 60 degrees advanced.
2  KREFANGL at 40:  No difference.
3. MAXRTRD2 at 50:  Timing mark right at zero.
4. MAXRTRD2 at 70:  Timing mark at 20 BTDC.
MAXRTRD2 seems to be ADVANCING the base timing.
5. Changed KCTBIAS (coolant temp bias) from 20 to 50:  No changed.
6-     Main spark advance table set as described below.
6.  Changed main spark advance to abruptly go from 0 to 30 degrees advance at 
2000 rpm:  It DID advance abruptly at 2000 RPM.
7.  set MAXRTRD2 at 60:  timing mark at 10 BTDC but there is now NO advance 
at 2000RPM
8.  7 + changed MAXADVN2 from 46 to 120:  still No advance at 2000 RPM
9.  change MAXRTRD2 to 5 (to check if a small change will still render the 
main spark table inop.):  It DID advance abruptly at 2000RPM.  SO changing 
the MAXRTRD2 value does not in itself render the the Main Spark Adv. inop.
10.  Change MAXRTRD2 to 20 (I'm going to sneak up on the 60 value):  Can 
barely get the car started at 20, and won't reve pas 1200 or so ... will jump 
to 40 and see what happens.
11.  MAXRTRD2 set to 40:  Timing mark at something like 10 ATDC and there is 
NO advance after 2000RPM.
12.  Set MAXRTRD2 to 50 and set MAXADVN2 to 0.0 just to see what happens:  
timing mark at 0 degrees and No advance.
13.  leave MAXRTRD2 at 50 and move MAXADVN2 to 60 and KREFANGL to 60 to see 
what happens:  Still no advance.
14.  same as above only MAXADVN2 at 120:  still no advance.
What did I learn?
The DIS module DOES respond to the EST signal, WHEN no other parameters have 
been changed too far.  The MAXRTRD2 seems to advance the base timing.  The 
MAXADVN2 and KREFANGL seem to have no apparent effect.  Once you advance the 
base timing too far (through the MAXRTRD2) the MAIN SPARK TABLE ceases to be 
effective.  Again, adjusting the MAXADVN2 does not solve this problem and 
appears to have no effect.
You can see all the different combinations I have tried above.  If you can 
think of anything else, please let me know.
Thanks,
Ted
PS  What Bruce and Terry said about inverting the Reference Signal from the 
DIS to the ECM would work.  It would push back the timing 60degrees (assuming 
50% duty cylce and three pulse per revolution).  That would set the base 
timing at 10degrees when the Main Spark Table says 0 degrees, which is close 
enough.  And I found that if you don't mess with the KREFANGL, MAXRTRD2, or 
MAXADVN2 then the DIS module WILL respond to the EST signal.  If you set the 
base timing too far with the MAXRTRD2, then the DIS module will NOT respond 
to the EST signal (or maybe the ECM stops pushing up the advance on the EST 
signal any further).
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$Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:37:59 -0800
$From: Ludis Langens <ludis@cruzers.com>
$Subject: Turbo Sunbirds (was Re: BINs)
Bruce Plecan wrote:
Starting in 87, the valve cover and the turbo to throttle body pipe are
a very bright red.  You can recognize a '749 equipped Sunbird from ...
clear over in the import section.  I guess that V6 Fiero sales weren't
up to predictions so they had lots of extra red paint.
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/
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$Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 23:26:19 -0800
$From: Ludis Langens <ludis@cruzers.com>
$Subject: Re: Newbie: Fiero ECM questions
TK wrote:
The SyTy / Turbo Sunbird code appears to be derived from the Fiero
6869/7170 speed-density code.  I haven't looked at the SyTy code all
that much, but every part I have looked at is almost a line-by-line copy
of the Fiero code.  
In the backwards direction, the 6869 code is related to other
speed-density programs.  The 6864 4-cyl TBI has a lot in common with the
6869.  Optimizations present in one but not the other imply that the
branch point is further back.  Perhaps the common ancestor is all the
way back at the (circa 1982) 5610 & 6026 ECMs.
-- 
Ludis Langens                               ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com
Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies:  http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/
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$From: "Bruce Plecan" <nacelp@bright.net>
$Subject: Re: HALP Sunbird
$Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 11:19:16 -0400
Subject: Re: HALP Sunbird|
Looks to be:
ABKS  ABKL  ASYN  ASYN   ASYP  BJU  AAMN  ABLR  ABLT  ACXK  ACXM  ALWN  ALWP
ANXF  ANXH  ANMD  ANMF  AWSP  BASL  AMWT  AMWU  ATUZ  ATWR  AYHX  BASL  ATUZ
ATWA  AYHX  BABM  BASL
Grumpy
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$From: ECMnut@aol.com
$Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:57:43 EDT
$Subject: Re: Injector Sizing, realistic goals, etc
Hi Aaron,
yep, the 7749 has been so picked apart, that pratically 
every byte in the chip is accounted for.  I forget the reason,
but I read somewhere that it won't go to 7,000 rpm..  I think
6,750 or there abouts was the limit.. Anyone know about this?
Anyway, the PromGrammer software (big, slow, Java thing)
for the Syclone Typhoon V^ works for the turbo sunbird chip too..
Offsets are the same...
MV
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$Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 23:10:35 -0500
$From: Shannen Durphey <shannen@grolen.com>
$Subject: Re: 1227749 EEPROM Type
Scott Flanagan wrote:
This system is on all quad 4 engines.  The eprom in this application
is usually a 27c256, it is twice as large as the eprom in the syclone
or sunbird.  The data tables are in different locations, and this
makes for wacky values like 0 cylinders when read with promgrammer.  I
get the same values here.  You need to get a sunbird eprom.  
Shannen 
I am trying to work with an old reader, but I am not too

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