$From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 $Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:56:11 -0500 Before firing off letters, please wait a while, so any follow up information can take place. I have a problem, that can take me away from writting, and I may get short to close a point. Well here we go. First, this is for educational purposes only. What I say here is just what others have told me. I have no formal training in electronics, or engineering, so it might all be wrong, and I'd expect with the folks here I'll be corrected If someone tries these methods/information it would be for Off-Road use only. Various laws are in effect for modifing vehicles, and maybe illegal. It is you the reader to figure out the laws in your area. The training I have is vocational, auto repair. OK, I have enlisted some really good software types, but can use a few more. If anyone wants this job it's their's for the asking. So it's my way, ya got an idea e-mail me. Find an error e-mail me or post it. I may say some things just to make life easy for the non-whatevers. From a general understanding point it don't matter if the reader starts at 000000, and stops at FFF, or reads down from FFF to 000000, OK. If ya wanna nitpic we'll never get anywhere... We need people to do the following: 1. Breadboard a EFI on a bench using ecms that are picked by the group. 2. Some volunteers who have a car/truck and can burn chips to test drive things, perferably with a scanner. 3. People who can/do visit recycling centers. 4. Parts trackers. 5. Thinkers, EE+ME, and folk who spin wrenches. If ya wanna lurk fine, but when things get thick, remember where you were when I asked for help which is what I'm doing. As things stand right now, it looks like the 1227747, then 1227730, 1227165, Ford, and Foreign types. If we get that far. Without participation this is all a mute point.. Ya wanna change the order, again e-mail me. My reasons are as follows. 747 easiest, but limited, if we can't do this we sure as hell can't do the next. 32K chip 730 MAP, all code on chip, uses tables, 256K chip 165 MAF, 128K chip. Close decision from #2. Popularity wise. Ford, with the above under our belts, then working on this one should be easier. If someone has some shareware about the ford system please start organizing it. Foreign, basically Bosch (?). Outta my league on this been years since doing Mag. Mar.. Need help with this also, anyone wanna take the lead, on this think about it. If someone knows about electric shifting trannies, please organize some notes. All I know of for a stand alone is the GM Diesel PCM. That Is All Bruce nacelp@bright.net The Cone Shaped Hat Headquarters may appear closer than ya think -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:31:33 -0600 $From: mdill@lsil.com (Mike Dillon) $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 Bruce, The more we are able to get at the easier our jobs could be, I don't have a real preferance on the ecm, but if what you say about the 730 having all the code in the PROM, we could have all to code to dissassemble this should allow better understanding of what GM is doing, after that doing the 747 or any other GM ecm sould be a snap as we could make much better assumtions when looking at the data. Do you have a referance as to what cars-trucks and years the 730 was used ?? If I can get one I could dump the PROM and run it though the dissassmebler. Is any one sure the the code in the GM proms is based on 68XX ? Thanks Mike D. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-$Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:51:23 -0500 $From: David Piper $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 I wud like to help. Have had electronics as a hooby since kid; analog, digital and rf. Amateur extra class FCC license. Design and built/modified my Custom 280Z Turbo, over 2HP/ci or 400 HP at 17 psig boost. Interested in data acquisition. Have DynoJet business with Comp Data integrated full data acq. Know John DeArmond, will try to get him reinvolved TurboDave (akaDynoDave) At 11:56 AM 3/26/98 -0500, you wrote: -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:20:46 -0700 $From: Shannen Durphey $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 Bruce Plecan wrote: Bruce, I'll help in any way I can. I think you know a little about my situation, but I'll be willing to dedicate some time to this. Once, when talking to Steve Cole, I was told that GM pretty much did things similarly in different ECMs, even though the code for doing it was at different addresses. Like you said, once you figured out one, the others are relatively easy. Until, that is, OBDII. Speaking of OBDII, I've found some compressed calibration files for electronically reprogrammable vehicles. Problem is, they seem to be compressed in some proprietary format. Every now and again I try to get at them, but I'm just an amatuer hack. I'll be watching.... Shannen -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 page 0 $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:46:38 -0500 The following my not be reproduced without written consent of the author. The following may not be retransmitted, or edited without written permission of the author. Page 0 While awkward, if you have not read page 1 yet do so, now. Yep, page two is in the draft area. Today was going to be addresses and what was at those locations. But, we seem to be having a lack of willingness to do some leg work, so things are on hold. The way I had things figured if 4-6 of the software types offered a hand, and we had 2-4 guys bread board a ecm, then it would be a cake walk to cover this is a couple days/weeks. But, since I got just a couple of software types interested, and no takers on the 747 bench work. Things are going to be real slow. I want to do this but, for me to bench and verify, and help with reading it. Well...., I only get so many hours a day. So rather than get ------- about it, here we go but at a much slower rate. Let me explain some things at this point. The 7747 ecm uses a tiny prom (32K). But, when you print it out it's 4 pages long. It's alot of numbers/alpha characters. Now if we were to try to cut down on that, what would someone want to so?.. Well we know some of it is code, right?. We know some of it is tables, right?. (Yes, to both). So we need a way to subtract the code from the tables. Hmmm, well how about if we found two different but somewhat similiar executions. Well if we compare a 454 pick-up w/a turbo 400, and a SBC with a 700R4 guess what. All the engine characteristics, and trany characteristics are different. So we get left with the differences in code to tables. If you hadn't run over the syty, site, do so now, if you don't have Java and win95, don't bother. Somehow for this all to make sense your going to need to thou. Sorry, it's just the way it is. Any way on to todays, thinking, er strategy?. If you've been following the threads, you've seen what an issue timing is. It's very critical for emissions, performance, and driviability. If you have any doubts look at the early Mopar systems. It's almost all about timing. I won't comment any further on that system. So by knowing the above and looking at the Sy promgrammer, you now have some clues. We need to look for a map that is the largest, and when we find that then we know that we are in the table area, and have found the timing map. Hot dam, ain't that easy?.. Not alot of rocket science yet, and we half figured things out.. Well not quit so fast. To be continued. Bruce Hmm, wonder if rocket scientists wear Cone Shaped Hats....... -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:19:01 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 12:00 AM Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 Bruce Plecan wrote: Ya ain't gonna get inside without an electric key, very special, some folks have seen that, and are baffled.. It's better than NASA!!.. I ain't too happy at the moment, read today's post -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:09:10 +0000 $From: steve ravet $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 Bruce Plecan wrote: What does breadboard mean? Run them using fake sensors on the bench? I may be able to do some of this, but I'm limited in test equipment (have a logic analyzer and a multimeter, actively looking for oscope). This I can do. I'm always looking for excuses to visit the boneyard. This possibly. Can do this also, but can't guarantee results of thinking. --steve obCSH: Does a CSH concentrate cosmic power in the same fashion as pyramid power? Sounds like dissertation material to me... -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:13:07 +0000 $From: steve ravet $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 Bruce Plecan wrote: Forgot one thing. I also recently acquired a Data I/O 29B device programmer. It might be useful for reading/writing PROMS, except I don't think I have the right adapter for it. I'm offering it's services, but I'm also asking for help using it (I don't have manuals or anything). If you know anything about it, or if you have other adapters for it (like UniPak, UniPak 2 or Unipak 2B) that you can part with, please let me know. --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:12:15 -0800 $From: Frederic Breitwieser $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 Breadboard means to assemble in a not-so-finished form. This can be solderless breadboards, where ya shove parts and wires into holes that are interconnected electronically, to wirewrapping, to simply soldering parts to pre-made circuit boards with nothing other than eyelets around every pin hole, and you drag wire or solder between them to make interconnections. Radio Shack actually is good for something in this case, they carry all of the above. Me too, all of the local yard boys know me, my project by heart, and often I hear a "Hey bud - that's a good caliper there, it will work with the spindles you too last week" from them. Scary. Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport, CT 06606 Homebrew Automotive Website: http://www.xephic.dynip.com/ 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HMMWV 2000 Buick-Powered Mid-Engined Sports Car -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: Kevin Vannorsdel $Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:54:03 -0500 Steve, is the Data I/O programmer you have actually called a 29B? I have access to some Data I/O manuals but need the full part number. Please reply to me directly at kv@us.ibm.com ________________________________________________ Kevin Vannorsdel IBM Arm Electronics Development 408-256-6492 Tie 276-6492 kv@us.ibm.com owner-diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu on 03/27/98 08:57:29 AM Please respond to diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu cc: Subject: Re: Programming 101 from CSH HQ PART 1 Bruce Plecan wrote: Forgot one thing. I also recently acquired a Data I/O 29B device programmer. It might be useful for reading/writing PROMS, except I don't think I have the right adapter for it. I'm offering it's services, but I'm also asking for help using it (I don't have manuals or anything). If you know anything about it, or if you have other adapters for it (like UniPak, UniPak 2 or Unipak 2B) that you can part with, please let me know. --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:11:06 -0700 $From: Steven Ciciora $Subject: Loyal Order of the Cone Shaped Hats (was Programming 101 page 0) ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Plecan" Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:46:38 -0500 Subject: Programming 101 page 0 Bruce Plecan wrote: Today was going to be addresses and what was at those locations. But, we seem to be having a lack of willingness to do some leg work, so things are on hold. The way I had things figured if 4-6 of the software types offered a hand, and we had 2-4 guys bread board a ecm, then it would be a cake walk to cover this is a couple days/weeks. But, since I got just a couple of software types interested, and no takers on the 747 bench work. Things are going to be real slow. I want to do this but, for me to bench and verify, and help with reading it. Well...., I only get so many hours a day. So rather than get ------- about it, here we go but at a much slower rate. map. Hot dam, ain't that easy?.. Not alot of rocket science yet, and we half figured things out.. Well not quit so fast. To be continued. Bruce Hmm, wonder if rocket scientists wear Cone Shaped Hats....... Well, I'm not sure if and where you put me down, but I'm excited. If I can, I'm going to try to get muddy this weekend at the junk yard looking for a 747 or two. Gonna grab as much of the harness as I can, so I can fire it up on my bench. i.e. pots and voltage sources for sensors, function generator for rpm, etc. I don't know what GM cars have a 747 ecm, so it may take me a while. Also, I'm not very good at getting good prices. I can only hope for the $50 range. How much I get charged will determine how many ecms I buy. Any one better at it than I am got an extra 747 kicking around that they want to sell me? :-) Hey bruce, sounds like you know quite abit. I'm not sure how we can help you. What are you looking to get out of this that you can't do yourself? Hoping to get inducted into the Loyal Order of the Cone Shaped Hat... Steven Ciciora -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: Loyal Order of the Cone Shaped Hats (was Programming 101 page 0) $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:57:59 -0500 From: Steven Ciciora To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 3:44 PM Subject: Loyal Order of the Cone Shaped Hats (was Programming 101 page 0) I ain't never intended to put any one down!!!!!!!! NEVER, maybe a poor attempt at some humor, but never the above If I $50 is what I always pay unless I trade for something at a swap meet will Wish I had a spare!!. Had an oportunity to get a 730, and a 165 for the next steps, and I'm wiped out. Usually I need a core so the $100 with no core was a deal for me.. Not looking to get anything out of it. Just I don't get around to well, for this leg work stuff Your doing it, having a bench set-up is great use a tack/dwell meter and ya can read PWM of the injectors, a V meter, and leds, and ya got it. I hope on of the EE types helps with a post for the 555 timers I asked for Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:00:29 -0600 (CST) $From: "Gregory A. Parmer" $Subject: Re: Daydreaming at Cone Shaped Hat Headquarters On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Bruce Plecan wrote: I want to learn enough about a system to control it and use it. Doesn't really matter what system since I haven't bought one. The sweetheart is a 1971 Camaro with a carb-ed 283, but that's a later story. The 400 has been indefinitely postponed due to many other factor$...Depending on my comfort factor I would rather deal with the 307 I have sitting in the floor during testing. The only consistent part of my picture is a SB Chebby, and if I am familiar enough to retrofit my 71 then the Chebby part won't be a factor either. I also have a CFI manifold, but it's usefulness is probably limited to what I've already gotten out of it (learning a little about transistors, LM1949s, and confidence building). It has some very small ports and folks say the CFI has poor fuel distribution and atomization anyways... I *expect* to do the same as most others I'm sure: Collect a junkyard EFI system. Install it. Monitor it. Change it. Use it. I *want* to use a PC to display RealTime info (if this works the gauges are unnecessary!). Consequently, my major concerns are 1) $$ 2) availability 3) tools available 4) time required 5) interface speed. The Linder tool I found (at http://www.lindertech.com) also did Ford and Chrysler products, but was $249. I s'pose that's less than the $299 GM scanner from Rinda Technologies (http://www.mcs.net/~rinda/auto/auto.htm). I'm listening about the $150 version... That's it for the EFI stuff. FYI -- and Joe, the other 2nd generation Camaro guy!! The 71 has new quarters and rear valence, 'glass hood, tilt front end, '92 Z28 wheels, 4 wheel disc brakes, roll cage, 5 pt harnesses, and a number of replacement body parts from the "recycle yard" (doors, trunk lid, lenses, etc). The engine is a stoneage performance 283 with Accell mech dizzy, Mallory dizzy, Crane Fireball cam, Rhoads lifters, and a Carter AFB carb backed by a close-ratio Muncie. The underside is all fit to eat off of, but I sure hope it's never upside down! :) BTW--I only do my own work, so it's a very slow process. Why did you ever ask for details?? -greg -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: Loyal Order of the Cone Shaped Hats (was Programming 101 page 0) $Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:11:51 -0500 From: steve ravet To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Loyal Order of the Cone Shaped Hats (was Programming 101 page 0) For the 1227747's they were in 6+8 GM/Chevy trucks pick ups from 87-91, and v-6 astrovans Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Update on Programming 101 and too long $Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:39:27 -0500 Well seems that things have changed in the last 24 hours. At this point we have several people looking for ecms, and I got some interesting mail. Also, there seems to be a new interest in some folks doing bench testing so we might pull this off. Little to minor hitch it will be a while before we get a "good life like" O2 signal generator. But, we can easily live with that. Gonna take a couple days for everyone to get ecms, and wiring, any way. There are more tables involved than I originally thought, but I was guessing, so no big deal. Looks to be 73 all together, plus switch settings. Some we may never figure out all of it, or need to. We're doing this the old fashion way to a certain extent, we're brute forcing some of it. As much of it as we can find in printed manner, figure from some logic, and then trial and error. Hopefull the error factor will be a min.. So if ya got some secret reserve of info, your just slowing us down not stopping us. Sounds neat being able to say that. We are all adults here so I'm not keeping tabs of exactly who's doing what. I've got a 3x5 card with a rough count so if your not going to finish something, let me know please!.. This is a group effort, or I hope for it to be.. May have a little ditty of software coming, if you have fc already, you can compare files, and find out what's different, between them, with this you'll be able to see what is the same between them. Slick In case you've heard the name disassembler, what that is is a program that allows you to enter a prom file, and it spits it back at you in one long column. Then you can count the number of tables, where they are, and how long they are. That also has reduced our work load by a whole bunch. I got a copy of a disassembled 747, but I'm not going to print it all out here, if some has this type of program, it might be interesting to have one somewhere, where it could be seen, that's for others to figure out.. BTW, I don't have parts, software, consulting time or anything else for sale. I don't get free samples to give away. If I find a bargain I'll let ya know, and may make enough to cover a credit card purchase of something. ie the chips. And again if someone tracks them down for less than a buck please let us/me know. 40 are spoke for and need 100 to get that price, anybody wanting to take that over is fine, just e-mail me. Nother thing, I'm not a computer guy (PC, or anything else other than what gm put inna car), I don't know where to get anything like that. Interesting story, about last night/morning, spent a bit of time trying to get something to run. Several hours passed, and finally decided to get some help, more time, no results, called another guy, and found out what to do. Went to us use new file, in another program locked up the computer. Nother hour or so didling around. Turns out it needed to be .xyz, and I had .abc.. So don't look at me for help with that sort of stuff we got brains around here for that, I'm not one of them.. Please feel free to e-mail me, I'm at nacelp@bright.net my phone number is (937) 692-5869. I'm usually on line so if busy e-mail, and tell me ya wanna talk, and to hang up the modem. If ya want to critize me, write me.. Ya gonna write me at least sign what you write. If you want to write, fine, I'd like to write back if there is a problem so include your e-mail address. If I error, Please Write, if you have to tell everyone that I did thats fine, but like most folk, I'd rather hear it, by personal e-mail. I know some of you are unhappy about this effort, but this is only kinda about writting proms. Like I said in page one this is for educational purposes. Hope that covers everything for today. Cheers Bruce This excessive BW brought to you by Cone Shaped Hat World Headquarters -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Please read ref Programming 101 $Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:28:01 -0500 I truely appreciate input, but a bunch of folks have decided to write without checking their facts. If you say I'm wrong fine, but at least think before ya type, it causes me a huge amount of time every day to check things. I'll admit again I'm not a EE, I've said this bunches of time. Telling me to look inside is pointless I don't Know Code. I got a clue about tables, that's all so far. I'm doing my best at something foreign to me. I'm trying to move things along in a forward direction. I listen, and write back to everyone, but that takes me away from getting things done. Please write, please at least think/investigate before replying. I've been working on this from early Dec., I got 4 months in this, The list traffic is a small amount of what I've gotten lately.. I've been spanning the globe to get info for this. Sincerely Bruce nacelp@bright.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Fw: Programming 101 Part 2 $Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:56:26 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Plecan To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 9:57 AM Subject: Programming 101 Part 2 Read no further until you read part 1 If your writting me use nacelp@bright.net, don't include this whole thing, in a reply........ Some of this will be old news to some, and new news to others. If you don't have a chip burning program, you will need one to write, to a chip. You'll also need an eraser (ie Ultra-Violet light). You'll need chips, and their holders. You will want a file editor function on your burning program. When looking at a file with an editor it should look something like this: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 000000 aa ab ac ad ae af a1 a4 a6 a3a4 a6 a7 aa ab ae 000010 ba bb bc bd be bf 06 90 ff fd dd a0 a9 000020 9a b7 a9 c9 c5 000030, down to, 000FFF This is just a small sample to let ya know what ya should see. So an address of 000001 is ab An address of 000001a is dd Address 00000f is ae the vertical column also goes in Hex like the top row The top row is complete, the vertical column reads to FFF. On a 1227747 000000 is part of the check sum 000001 is also part of the check sum 000002 is chip ID 000003 is chip ID 000004 is enable checksum On this chip finding these was easy. Just starting at the beginning change one character at a time. You could make a change with the first few entries, and not get a prom error, code. And changing the next 2 changed the chip id on the scanner. If you've read the stuff about tuning then you've seen some approximations for what tables, look like. Having discussed the importance of timing, and knowing what the curve "looks" like then ya now know, that they if graphed out would look sorta like saw teeth. You would know that they are about 14 characters, in lenght. You get that by counting from 30-100 by fives. That is the increment that the vacuum is measured in, since remembering our chart that it was K/Pa. You would as know that it is 12ish rows tall. One of the stickier parts is that these characters are hex numbers, so be prepared for spending some time looking for them. So by looking at the bin you'd see that there is a area 15x14 where they characters are saw toothed shaped, at 000035-0000106, and that would apprear to be a timing table. What would be another major area that we can find easily. Well how about a fuel table. Now, the fuel is going to be a rough number in closed loop so the computer can use the feedback from the O2 sensor to compute a pulse width that will produce the proper AFR. So it doesn't need to be say any finer than about half the resolution of the timing table, and again by looking back at old posts ya see that it goes lean to rich. And then repeats this pattern. Again being a computer is going to be written in hex. So now we are looking for a table that is 7-9 characters, by 7-9 characters. If you continue reading down the table then at about 0380, and running to 03D6 you'll again see a repeating patern. Good candidate for being a fuel table. This is going to be all for a while now, since I got to come up with some pulse generators for benching the ecm. It would be quicker thou if some EE spent a few to come up with some simple 555, and maybe a flip flop for a 50% PWM, for a VSS, something for a tack signal, and a sloopy O2 would probably work. Cheers Bruce Maybe it's the Cone Shaped Hats that suck the smoke outta them little chip thingies -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Randon act of generosity $Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:02:20 -0500 One of the list members is sending me some spare 2732As, so I'll have 4 bags of 5, and 1 bag of 6, coming. Realizing that everyone is on a budget for those that are going to be benching ecms, and who this will help, send me a e-mail. This is intended for those that really can use a little help, I'm not asking any questions. But, if it gives ya a little bit more breathing room in you budget, jus write. I certainly appreciate his help. Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: GM style 2732 chip holders, and chips $Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:09:18 -0500 Larry Fisher at GNOne@tia.net sells the little holders. If someone else knows of a good source please post it they can get hard to find at times. The chip order is in, and they are verifing they have the count, and some paper work is pending, but barring any problems they should be leaving the supplier today. 25 speed, and none of the "Wrong Ones". I ordered a few extras. If your in a hurry let me know when you send your address.. No money till I say they are here. Again Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:31:32 -0800 $From: Carl Summers $Subject: Re: Ya Can't do that Hiya Bruce, I don't think you have to rewrite the code to keep it in closed loop,,,there is a lookup table starting at 29E-2A3 that controls closed loop function 29E is mph, 29F is TPS, 2A0 is open loop rpm off, 2A1 is open loop rpm on,,but I don't know what 2A2,3 does...I only needed to get one particular vehicle out of closed loop at idle cause cam was way too big too idle at 14.7 AFR,,,so feel free to play with those areas and please let me know of anything you find...BTW does anyone else know where the constant is that tells the processor what AFR to try to achieve????Also Bruce, the 87-90 454 chips stayed out of closed loop at idle so compare the table to a 350 so as to get an idea.....HTH's -Carl Summers Bruce Plecan wrote: -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Update on P 101 $Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:41:34 -0500 Things are moving on the 1227747 front. Not at break neck speed but as one would expect. More news on the pending ecms. The 1227165, has been used on 4-6-8 applications in both MAP, and MAF.. Also TBI 4 cyl.. The 1227730 may be able to use a generic version of the code from the 165. I don't know for sure how that would be done, but have heard that twice, from good sources. In reference to the post Sat, about TBI using 1-5, and TPI using 2-10 on the injector timing. Does any one see any fatal flaws about, building a circuit to convert one from the other. ie: Using a TPI computer, and measuring it's pulse (don't ask it to say aaaah), and then divide by 2, and fire it twice as often. Then on a TBI doubling it's pulse lenght, and firing it half as often. The above two boxes could be piggy backs, with an output for low or high impedance injectors, and then a cyl select for the pulsing rates. Or after the discussion from Dec., maybe just a LM1949 final drive?... Really wish someone would step up to the plate on the above TPI to TBI design work...... That would give use 4-6-8, TBI, TPI, MAP/MAF coverage...... It seems the Ford guys have no interest to help with this, so unless things change, I don't see doing that box. The interest for the foreign crowd haven't said much, so unless there is demand for doing them, I don't see putting the effort into that either. If they do have a "want" the above selection still would cover them. Well all this leaves is traction control, and the wide ratio O2 sensor. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Ref P 101 $Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:21:04 -0500 Is everbody comfortable with the EFI 101, so far. If any problems e-mail me. Not the list. Has everone figured things out about the timing table. Knowing it's 14x15 and hex can we all get a table out of it?. Again e-mail me, if not and I'll do a little bit more splanin of things nacelp@bright.net Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Tuning 101 Revisited Tables Maps $Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:22:43 -0500 Just got reminded of something I didn't mention earlier. No I do not stop, and start the car for every change I make. Again depending on the car. I might make a coolant temp sensor liar (adjustable pot in series with sensor), I might use the same for a Intake air temp sensor. Yes they both will affect timing, but they change fuel alot more IMHO. And I'll sometimes use a MSD multi-step retard. With a chip with border line too much timing, then have the steps a 2-4-6d , and have some switches so I can use any combo of them. Hmm not an emulator, but it works for me.. Again this way I can spot trends of what the engine likes, or makes it run best. Also used a 3914 for a TPS divide by for a series of divide by resistor chains for map. Ain't no rules, just what works...... No worries mate Bruce Worries is when the picket fence in the rear view mirror is catching you, please remember to remove Cone Shaped Hat when attempting these manuevers.. Driving one handed and holding your hat on can be dangerous to your health......... -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Prog 101 Update $Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 08:20:31 -0500 On the 747 project another set of tables has been confirmed, in reveiw, for those who've missed it. I've shown where the main spark, main fuel, checksum, and file name are. We now have WOT%TPS enable, WOT Enrichment, WOT spark, WOT retard, MAP retard, EGR On+Off, Open loop idle, mafunction flags injector constants and as of yesterday ACCEL enrichment all 3 tables......... There are a couple critical ones we have yet to find, ie Knock retard decay (if there is) TCC conditions (TPS, VSS ?) EGR, timing and fuel corrections Target AFR for closed loop Closed loop function parameters Injector size (?) update of who has found an ecm, and enough wiring to do a hook-up. For these folk I still got a couple packets of free chips.. On the 165/730 good news there, more info has come in and some of this is gonna be, nice, real nice. Also some really exciting software is pending. No worries mate Bruce Be sure to include at least two Cone Shaped Hats in your summer wardrobe collection (I need the royalties) LOL -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 07:40:58 -0700 $From: Shannen Durphey $Subject: Re: Prog 101 Update Bruce Plecan wrote: Knock retard is handled by the esc box mounted on the right side of the intake manifold. it intercepts computed timing signal from 747 TCC conditions (TPS, VSS ?) -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: Prog 101 Update $Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:04:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Prog 101 Update The est mod. does the signal processing. The ecm has limits for how much and when the retard is applied. On some ecms there is a decay rate to allow the retard to go back to zero. The one in my car, you have to turn the ignition off for it to cancel Extra points for art work Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Spare Stuff for 101 $Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:51:52 -0500 Does any one have any prom burning equipment to donate to the programming project? Major helper in this wants to do more, but needs a burner software, and eraser. Gotta be able to do 2732A and the 128/256 style. Also still have a couple of the free prom packs for folks doing bench testing with the ecms, just mail me. Again Thanks Bruce If ya wanna clue about how this is going last Sat CSH HQ did 10Mb on net traffic.. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-$Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 21:19:52 -0800 $From: Scot Sealander $Subject: Re: Prog 101 Update Shannen Durphey wrote: That is incorrect. The ESC box only reports knock duration to the ECM, and the ECM program handles knock. There is no EST connection to the ESC box. Scot Sealander Sealand@clarityconnect.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Eric Elliott" $Subject: Project 101?? $Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:54:27 -0600 Hello, Don't know what is project 101, haven't screened the recent archives, but would yall like dumps of PROMS for a 1227747 for a 1988 210 HP TBI system? If yall want them, I'll search for a reader & post them. Or if that isn't easy, will mail some EPROMs to some one that has a reader. Every 2732 & 2764 PROM that I have tried worked OK in my old 1227747 system. Even the Radio Shack PROM. Also I have a 16134847 ECM containing SMD and QFP parts on a single board, no recognizable CPU number & no PROM in a DIP. It is plug compatible with my 1227747 ECM and was intended for a ?? Perhaps this is a standard replacement unit to be programmed before use. Does some one have a need for this? Eric -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "mfwic" $Subject: Re: Spare Stuff for 101 $Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:53:12 -0700 I have access to a BP Micro programmer. It can read and program any PROM or PLD up to 28-pins. I would be happy to read/reprogram PROM's. E-mail me at: raklinge@mail.uccs.edu I am also building a programmer that uses the JTAG pins on PLD's larger than 28-pins. I will be using this on a regular basis in the fall semester. Rich ---------- -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: MikeTurner@kemet.com (Mike Turner) $Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 08:37:43 -0400 $Subject: Re: Spare Stuff for 101 I have a Needham's EMP-20 and would be willing to burn any EPROM's needed. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 $Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:41:47 -0400 Once again if you haven't read the opening pages please do so at this time. The first two tables we covered where spark, and fuel so in that same light we'll continue. Gm has a feature for extra power ie for passing, and heavy load conditions (also makes ya feel like you're going fast). For some applications they use a WOT enable. it adds timing, and fuel. Most notably on the heavier vehicles there seems to be a delay to this feature, at times, and then at other times it doesn't seem as noticeable. On the 747 there are a couple of parts to this. One is that they add fuel, and timing. The other part is that there is a time delay, and rpm bypass. So that at times, say from idle when ya floor it it takes a moment for it to seem like your really acclerating, and from higher rpm there is almost no waiting. Now again remember this as we'll be stumbling around with this from time to time. Reading down from the spark table, we stumble across some interesting numbers at 015E-0165, in hex they range from 06 to 0E. Since we are looking for timing in this area, if we convert 0E to Decimal we get 14, divide by 256, and multiply by 90 and we get 5. This might be a good area for an amount of spark that is added to an enrichment for WOT. OK we're going to look now for some fuel. Hmm, well we'll look like we did with the timing, where the fuel tables are. Well like for the spark that is added there is almost a constant amount of fuel added, but since they don't want the engine to make too much top end power, and the resulting engine damage they probably turn off the fuel on one end of the scale. So if ya look at the end of the fuel area, ya see exactly that, again depending on what application, it reads hex 64 for a few entries, and then the last few are 00. So we wind up at 03C7-03D7 as being the fuel enrichment for WOT. Varifing the above is just test driving a few proms with a scanner, and the DIY O2 display. Adding lots of timing, in the WOT timing area will set a bunch of knock counts, and turning off the fuel makes the car lame, and the O2 display looks noticeably leaner. Again, just do it for a few moments, ya don't want to risk any engine damage. Well, we've now got just enough knowledge to get into real trouble. By running too much timing/too little fuel you can cause serious engine trouble, always remember TOO little timing, and you buy spark plugs. TOO much timing and you buy all sorts of internal engine parts, ranging from head gaskets, to exhaust valves, and pistons, so sneek up on making tuning changes. ALSO remember TOO much fuel, and you waste gas, and buy spark plugs. TOO little fuel, and it's just like buying parts from too much timing. IF you have any doubts take small steps, and also reread the tuning pages, and stare at fuel, and timing tables til they really make sense. Also, be sure to wear a Con Shaped Hat so you aren't interupted too often. No worries mate Bruce Again if repling to this edit down. Couple sentences quoted is fine, not the whole text. TY -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Proms+things Pro 101 $Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:06:37 -0400 Well folks, in appreciation for the help I've received, and for the folks that I can never repay for their help, I've decided to send out all the chips, no charge. I missed the Post Office today, and there are two packages that I got to figure out packaging for, but all the others will hit the mail tomorrow. In yesterdays post there may be a error that is under review, and another that I consider to some degree a point of veiw. In the fuel area, I mentioned that they probably turned the fuel off to keep from over reving the engine, and it's been also pointed out that do to the engine limited breathing, maintaining the fuel flow isn't nessecary. There are a few folks that perfer to remain unnamed that have really made this happen, and I'd like the list in general to know how much I appreciate their efforts. Sincerely Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Error at Programming 101 $Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:49:53 -0400 I made a mistake, 03C7-03D7, is not a fuel adder for WOT, enable. It is a continuation of the VE tables, for extending the map to high rpm values. Also, the mention of the TPS enable percentages are not the only parameters to be meet for WOT enable. I hope Carl doesn't simmer too long, I miss his help on the 101 project. NICE having him back. Sincerely Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 $Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:38:29 -0400 If you have not been following this series please refer to the archives, and use the search for programming 101. Again this is for educational purposes, and is my opinion, and experiences. Your results will vary. Prom reprogramming is serious business, and not to be taken lightly. Again if you find errors in my writtings please e-mail me at: nacelp@bright.net . If you have any tables, or known switch locations I would appreciate you sharing them with me or the list. Not as a matter of power/control I'd like to hear about them, and you'll get the credit for the contribution (if you want it). But, I'm trying to organize this into a logical progression, and format. I think now would be a good time to cover some protection for tuning. There are two areas for the knock sensor retard limits, one being for WOT it would be 017F-0187, and for non WOT 0188-018C. The first of the two areas is by rpm, and the other appears to be MAP related. In either case, I'd just set the entries to 44, and be done with it. On some scan tools they use knock counts for the display of knock sensed, and others use degrees. IMHE, the knock counts equate to twice the actual degrees. ie, with a OTC scanner if I find 6 knock counts, then I know my timing is 3 degrees off. If you do the hex to dec, and multiply by 90, and divide by 255, you get 24. Which seems to work out to 12 degrees of retard, which should all but cover the worst of circumstance (ie bad tank of fuel). No worries mate Bruce Rumor control is saying that in the final episode of Seinfeld they all wear, yep, Cone Shaped Hats -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: 1227747 pinout $Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:32:53 -0400 For those of you working on the bench 747 part of the Prog 101, or those of your swapping to one here is a pinout. The * means optional, or emission related A1 drk grn/wht Fuel pump relay A2 Brn Air Port* A3 Grn/Yel Canister Purge* A4 Gray EGR* A5 brn/wht SES Light A6 pnk/blk Ign power A7 Tan/Blk MT/Shift, or TCC* A8 orgn Serial Data A9 Wht/Blk Diagnostic Test A10 brn VSS A11 blk/Pnk MAP Grnd A12 Blk/Wht ECM Grnd B1 orgn Battery B2 Tan/Wht fuel pump input B3 blk/red Dist ref low B5 ppl/wht Distr ref pulse B7 blk EST Retard B8 Grn A/C Signal* B10 org/blk P/N Switch C3-6 blu/grn's IAC C8 Drk Grn 4th gear switch* C9 ppl/wht Crank C10 yel Coolant temp C11 lt grn Map C13 Drk Blu TPS C14 gry 5v ref (sensors) C16 orng battery D1+2 blk grounds D4 wht Spark timing out D5 tan/blk Ign mod bypass D6 tan Ox ref low D7 ppl Ox sesnor high D15+16 Injector D14+C15 Injector If anyone finds an error please yell right away (other than spelling). Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 $Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:48:52 -0400 Well if you have missed any of the prior postings on this I would recommend you read the archives, and catch up with this subject. Again, this is for educational purposes, and should only be done with adult supervision. Changes can lead to engine damage, loss of performance, and increased emissions. Any experiments with this subject manner should be for off-road use. In a great number of gm ecms there is what is called Power Enrichment, commonly called PE. There are numerous conditions that must be meet for it to be enabled. The trigger (if you will) is a percentage of TPS. Based on rpm once this theshold is exceeded it puts the ecm into PE, and the O2 sensor is ignored, and the engine answers the helm with a max effort. Now. there seems to be several opinions on how the ecm executes the mixture for this. One train of though is that the ecm basiclly goes open loop. Next is that the ecm applies a correction to the WOT mixture from the block lean correction. The third view is that the ecm applies only a correction of richness from the BL correction. IMHE, it's one of the later two. It also appears to vary from application to application. If you follow the tune-up procedures from my earlier postings it is really a mute point. The percent of TPS to enable PE appears to be at 047D-0485. We covered the WOT spark adder, so now we must look for a WOT Air/Fuel Ratio. That would be at 0487-048E.. Hmm, maybe next we'll talk abit about the math used in some of the tables settings we've found. Again I invite any and all to contribute any information they might have about tables, enables, switchs, and there addresses. No worries mate Bruce Again when refering to this text please edit the rely. nacelp@bright.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-