$From: kenkelly@lucent.com $Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:16:25 -0400 $Subject: Re: Bench racing ecms Even if ya hate 101 please read Bruce Plecan wrote: Bruce, I read the posting that suggested using a light bulb for the Injector load at work. It is still on my office machine and I don't remmember the poster so I'll comment here. The more I think about it the better that idea becomes. Lights for all the outputs would be great. Nicely labeled you would be able to quickly see what was happening. The injector bulbs would have a brightness proportional to fuel flow. State of Fans, A/C, and EGR would be immediately visible. Various bulb sizes and colors could be used. Through in a few LED's on the low current outputs, and you would have a nice diagnostics bench, when combined with all your planned input emulators. Ken -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> -$From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Bench racing ecms $Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 09:31:13 -0400 The first bulb flickered this am. For triggering the module where the dist pickup/reluctor attachs the voltage drop across a LED fires it just fine. Using a 5v source, with a 100 ohm resistor in series with the LED, works. For an indicator that the High Voltage coil is firing I'm using a small incadesent dash bulb. Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 $Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 09:58:43 -0400 The purpose of this series is educational, and about engine management. In this case we're looking at the gm 1227747. Using this information may be in violation of your laws. It is your responsibility to find this out. This information if used on an actual engine should be done with adult supervision. Also, you must read the tuning doc, and txt at 332 incoming. If you have not been following along then please read the acrhives under Programming 101. This information was posted once before but may be difficult to find, and with recent events is a good reminder that it exists. In the table/switch/setting areas of the prom files there are a set of parameters that must be meet for closed loop operation to begin. At 029E-02A3, are where these parameters are. The ones I have a high confidence of are 029E MAPH 029F TPS 02A0 open loop off (rpm) 02A1 open loop on (rpm) 02A02+3 I don't have figured out If repling to this posting to DIY, please change the heading to something else, so people can do archive searches easily without excessive duplication. If you want to "talk" to me about errors please write me at nacelp@bright.net, also no need to quote the entire text to me. If I am in error I have no problems admitting that just at times it's easier to check with others, and get back to you, and amend the 101 posting once rather than clutter things up with excessive mail. Again I'm not an EE, or Software type, just a mechanic sharing what I've found, or had sent to me. Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: bp-test.bins $Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:21:23 -0400 As a follow up to yesterdays talk about patching bins together I though I might include some examples. All three are for 350 cid Small Block Chevies, with stock injectors. All 747 TBI's. The first two bp1+bp2 are for rather light vehicles, and bp3 for a 4x4, all are automatics. #3 is the most modified with idle speed corrections. Also note again for test purposes. These in my opinion are the result of less than a dozen test chips for each application (well #3 is more than that, but alot of 101 testing has been involved), and would be a close calibration. They have drivibility in the good to excellent range, and only #3 is close enough to have about 0 for IAC at in gear hot idle. For more info on my IAC comments they are 332 incoming tune-up doc/txt. Also #3 has had some time with a scan tool hooked to it so the idle/ light cruise BL's for this application are in the 130's, again good. Please note how different the timing curves are for the same engine type. All 3 have cams available from GM, matter of fact I beleive 2 are gm crate engines. No I don't keep engine built sheets on every chip I do, so don't ask for the cam/CR specs. Again this is for exposure to what you might expect to see when you view a prom, that has been modified. So if you've been following 101, I mentioned what calibrations might be at what area, the math for understanding them, the malfunction flags, and now by example what they might look like. Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 $Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 13:47:12 -0400 For those of you new to reading programming 101, please run an archive search for this, and read all related subject matter before using any of this information. Previouly we talked about WOT timing, and fuel. Included in these must be meet parameters are, a min rpm (bypass), and a sometimes used time delay. In use they function like this. Say you have a rpm bypass of 2500. This means you have to be at 2501 rpm for WOT to be enabled if there is a time delay entry, and you have meet all other enables. If you have a time delay of say 5 secs., If you meet all the other enables, but are at 1500 rpm, and it takes you more than 5 secs. to get to 2501 rpm you will execute WOT after the timer expires, even thou you haven't reached 2501 rpm.. The bypass rpm address is 02CC, and the time is 02CE. Now, why in the world would you even want such things. Believe it or not they do help under certain conditions. While in a very light high HP, high stall converter application, you would turn the delay to 0.0, and rpm to 800. But, for rock crawling in a 4wd heavy vehicle, you don't want to light the tires, as you ease into the gas. So for that you might use 2500, and 5 secs. Also, it makes life easier on the transmission. The tranny can't react as fast as the engine can, so you can have too much HP, before the line/govenor pressures have built to handle the load, and under those conditions the tranny life is quite short. Again, this is how I interupt things to be. I am not a EE, ME, or software person. If you see any errors in the above please e-mail me, and let me reveiw, you statements, rather than risk generating lots of confusion. Also, just use a short clip in your response please. Cheers Bruce nacelp@bright.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Porgramming 101 $Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 14:29:05 -0400 I can't find these in the archives, but I thought I had done them before. Once again confusion reigns supreme at CSH, HQ. Once again please read all related subject material in the archives about programming 101. Again this is a discussion of engine management straties, and executions. On a carburated engine there is a acclerator pump. Well in the world of the 747 there is a similiar enrichment for accleration. In it's world it's governed by TPS change, delta TPS, the change in MAP, delta MAP, and quanitity. The delta TPS is at 0314-031D, the delta MAP at 030E-0312, and quantitiy at 031E-0323. I've tried patching the values from a BBC to a SBC, and the change is huge. Like black smoke every where (well not quite that bad). I've only had to change them once and it was only a slight amount. If you find yourself needing to make large changes here, revisit the tune-up series of documents, and read thru the air filter area. The engine only needs x amount of air, so running a 6x15 open element air cleaner, on a stock 350 SBC, will cause it to bog. Adding some accleration enrichment might seemingly take care of it, but the car will actually be slower (yes, even if you doctor the WOT AFR, and timing). I've run rpm triggered stop watchs and VSS stop watches trying this in many different ways. At less than 400 HP, you want to design a slight amount of intake restriction. The closer to stock the engine is the more you want for it to be the air filter. The more the restriction becomes the Butterflies the fussier the engine becomes to tune, and the more tempermental due to weather changes. Again IMHO, and for a street type engine. There is so much drivibility in intake tracts you would not beleive it. I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record on this issue, but it is that important. One thing I really enjoy doing is running a 4x15, or some large air filter but then inside the air filter housing itself play some games. Again if you see any errors here, please e-mail me. Cheers Bruce nacelp@bright.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:26:28 -0500 () $From: Greg $Subject: Re: Porgramming 101 Cute slip there on the subject! :) I'm trying to document my '7747 project on my web page--http://www.acesag.auburn.edu/~gparmer Given time, maybe we can even generate some kind of basic Delco FAQ. BTW--Steve...I've got Bruce's Delco Tuning Tips html-ized on the above site. Move that file to the the DIY_EFI site if you like. Corrections welcomed, -greg -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:51:22 +0000 $From: steve ravet $Subject: 101 clarification Updating the programming 101 summary, I got some questions: Spark table, 0035 to 0106 (14x15) is referred to in this email: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/archive/archive_num_97;lines=88187-88222 Only the size is mentioned, not the location or description. I found the location in another email I had. It looks to me like it's laid out in memory as a 15x14 table, by rows. Can someone explain to me what the two axis of the table are, and what units the table value is in? ----------------------------------------------------- Similarly, in a non-list email I see that the fuel table is located at 037f-03c6 (or 03d7), and is 9x8. From looking at a bin, it looks like it's 8x9, laid out by rows. Again, what are the units for the axis and table values? Bruce posted a correction saying that this table actually extended to 03d7 for high RPM, instead of stopping at 03c6. That conflicts with another email that said there is a WOT fuel adder table from 3c7 to 3d7. Can someone clarify what size the fuel table is, where the WOT fuel adder is, and the units on both, please? ----------------------------------------------------- On the subject of TPS enrichment, Bruce mentioned three tables that approximate an accelerator pump. MAP delta, TPS delta, and "quantity". Here's the email that discussed it: http://efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu/diy_efi/archive/archive_current;lines=14793-14857 delta TPS and MAP I understand, but what is the "quantity" table? Note that this installment has the subject "porgramming 101", so if you do a subject search for programming 101 you won't find it... Bruce, at least spell check the subjects! :-) ------------------------------------------------------- Thanks in advance for the help, I hope these aren't too basic, but I'm in learning mode here... Oh yeah. Looking at the summary of tables posted so far, there is a lot of address space that hasn't been determined yet. Is this code? Or are there lots of tables yet to be discovered? If someone knows the location of code in the PROM, please post it and I'll add that to the summary also. Keep up the good work Dr. Pelican et. al. --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: 101 clarification $Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 14:38:24 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: steve ravet To: diyefi Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 1:27 PM Subject: 101 clarification 0035 to 0106 is an address. I chose to write in the least enhanced version, rather than using D, or $, and the risk of losing the new guys. Again with columns by rows or rows by columns. Either way they only make sense in one direction, so rather than over explain it, I did it that way. That's also why I listed example maps/tables along the way. I found MAP (K/Pa), by RPM MAP vs rpm, and VE Your going to have to reask that question. I don't understand what your asking/saying. Maybe having a copy of the disassemb from Ludis's site to look at would help better explain what your reading. Each posting was a extension of the last. So like for the VE and LV8 stuff ya have to go clear back to the Tuning stuff. Anyone who has a better grasp of explaining it, feel free to chime in. I have lost a drive since then so I can't just flip back to an old post. If you have a date for the post, that would help. If ya still have a problem holler, after reading the below Personally, I'll have a printout of a disassembly, a printout of the bin, a calculator, and O2 handy. Sometimes now I'll just run Delco_ Edit. Usually I try to run the delco over the other stuff to verify things, but hey with my spelling, it should be obvious that I make errors. Fuel table at 037F-03C6, 9x8, MAP vs RPM, expressed in VE Fuel continuation 03C7-03D7 17 items long expresed in VE. 3-14857 How much, is added I have an entire staff for that reason, and just sometimes errors slip thru the system. Code starts at like 0617. Yes, there is alot of work left!!. Or are Lots of switch settings, and corrections. Again, spread out all the documentation that you have, and stare at it. If someone knows the It starts at 0617 and runs thru the end of the bin. , please post it and I'll add that to the -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:18:11 +0000 $From: steve ravet $Subject: Re: 101 clarification That is one of the things I'm working on, just trying to wrap my head around all of it. Hence all the questions. If I was working on a 747 project it'd probably be clearer to me... I have looked at some of the bins and come up with some of my own answers, and collected stuff from the prog 101 issues. I put it all in front of me and stared at it like Bruce suggested. If I crossed my eyes and unfocused them I saw a 3D image of a quadrajet floating there, I'm not sure what that means... :-) So, by all means, read the prog 101 summary, including the table descriptions. If you have something to add, or can make the descriptions clearer let me know and I'll update it. There's still stuff missing, like the fuel table has MAP and RPM on each axis, but what range of MAP and RPM does the table cover? I'm still digging around for answers to stuff like that. I want to make the 101 summary page complete enough that someone who has a generic understanding of EFI (like me), can print the page out and immediately start working on a new prom. keep those cards and letters coming. --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:16:59 -0400 $From: Jason Weir $Subject: 747 Tables and RPM? Does anyone have any idea what the RPM ranges and increments for the 747 tables are. The 101 stuff is contradicting? For example the timing table is 15 columns in width is it 400 to 5600 in 400 rpm increments or something else. Its the same thing with the MAP vs. VE table I have no idea what the RPM ranges are and its having me running in circles. I change a value in the prom and I dont know where to look for the change... Oh yeah by the way my programmer arrived along with the datarase II, I expect the emulator to be here within a week (not sure of the shipping times from Taiwan) It took me a while to get the checksum thingy all figured out but it works... Hopefully I dont get in over my head here but if anyone needs a chip burnt let me know. Just pay for the shipping and I'll do it. TIA -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:25:32 +0000 $From: steve ravet $Subject: 101 clarification Light is slowly dawning. Between Ludis' disassemblies and Bruce's emails, I'm getting this 747 thing figured out. It's starting to light a fire under me to convert my '78 monte carlo to EFI... I have another question for the 747 gurus. I'm adding Bruce's description of how to convert table values to real world values. He wrote, in part: Spark Advance data byte * 90/256); (This give 0-90 degress) Bruce, in your tuning tips table you had some negative values in the spark table. How does that work? Also, this is a newbie question, the 0-90 value is before TDC, right? ie a value of 30 means 30 degrees BTDC? thanks, --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: 101 clarification $Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:35:48 -0400 There is a spark adder, called main spark bias, which moves the entire table up or down in value. So lets say your at 0 degrees advance with a spark bias of 10 degrees. If you drop the spark bias to 0 then your initial timing of 0 becomes -10. There are some engines that are fussy about the initial timing, and spark bias. Generally I find alot of engines like 6d initial, a spark bias of 6. Now just to really foul things up/and/or confuse them there is a cold spark bias. Normally I have a fair amount there (15ish). Then with the above 16-20d BTDC idle timing. Whiether this actually pushes the timing to AFTC I don't know, till after I get the bench stuff running. From test driving it seems to, but I have trouble setting timing by seat of the pants. Also, this is a newbie question, the Yes, and yes. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:52:40 +0000 $From: steve ravet $Subject: Re: 101 clarification Bruce Plecan wrote: So Bruce, do you know where this main and cold spark adder is in the PROM map? Also, just out of curiosity, the VE table from your tuning notes peaks in the 60% range. That seems low... Is that table really a measure of VE, or is it just values that work? --steve -- Steve Ravet International Meta Systems http://www.imes.com steve@imes.com -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: 101 clarification $Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 21:00:12 -0400 Yes, but gotta do some more testing with it. It's included in the math at the tables, thou, so it's not a giant thing in my book. There is enought major stuff to keep straight, for the moment. Goes back to what I said early on that all these numbers exist for computer reasons. You can lie to the computer, and all it does is generate values on the code used. Remember that in the 747 it uses a PE, so with those numbers the totals got to about 100. Also in some of the other type ecms the numbers never exceed 80, and that is so there is available volume of fuel to allow for accelerator enrichment. I think using the term VE for the fuel is about the most misleading term possible, but folks are paid lots more than me to figure this stuff out. Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 00:56:10 -0600 $From: Shannen Durphey $Subject: programming 101 and checksum Memory location 0x004 is listed as the checksum enable for 7747 ecm. This value is $42 in my factory files. Does anyone know what the value is to disable checksum? Also, this location in 8747 ecm contains the value $4F. Is it safe to assume this is checksum enable for this ecm? Thanks Shannen -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum $Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:01:03 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Shannen Durphey To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Sunday, August 09, 1998 3:13 AM Subject: programming 101 and checksum AA Also, I don't know, could try a chip with AA entry and see Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 10:34:27 -0700 $From: Vance Rose $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum At 07:01 AM 8/9/98 -0400, you wrote: If ya have time - just disassemble code. The checksum is usually early in program section. Being a novice it was one of my first finds for 165 ecm. Vance -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 14:51:11 -0600 $From: Shannen Durphey $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum Vance Rose wrote: Ummm, you make it sound so easy, I wish I knew what you meant. I've looked at disassembled code on Ludis' site, and it's pretty much Greek to me. So where's a guy to go to learn more? Shannen -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:09:03 -0700 $From: Vance Rose $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum At 02:51 PM 8/9/98 -0600, you wrote: early in Easy - nooo!! If your learning it's actaully vverry boring. Kinda like watching paint dry. Have to really want to do the work. In my file have only commented about 20 pages, about 145 to finish that one file. Do that work in winter evening when rhere is nothing else to tinker with. A good start would be the pink motorola book for 68hc11. There has been recent post about source for it. Vance -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum $Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:43:37 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Vance Rose Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum 20 Pages out of 145, 145 pages is for one bin file?. Cheers Bruce Being a novice it was one of my first finds for 165 ecm. So where's a guy to go to work in winter evening when rhere is nothing else to tinker with. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: goflo@pacbell.net $Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:20:21 -0700 $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum Bruce Plecan wrote: ********************************************************************** Intake air temp: What is the range of the sensor? Is tempco positive or negative? IOW, does resistance go up or down as temp goes up? What voltage does the ECU apply to the sensor? (Disconnect the sensor and measure across the ECU terminals.) Coolant temp: Likewise. MAP: 0-5V, 1 bar is 5V approx. Correct? TPS: 0-5V, throttle closed to WOT. Yes? Dist. ref pulse: How many pulses per rev? Amplitude? (5V?) When does it occur? (TDC?) 4th gear switch: Is it a switch? How many wires go to it? neutral/park sw: Ditto. VSS: What is it? TCC: What is it? O2 sensor: Conventional O2 sensors put out 0-1 V. Is this the input to the ECU? What is the max rate of change of engine rpm? What kind of PC do you have? Hang with me on this. I know its a pain, but I can't read your mind. This way you get what you want instead of what I think you want. Regards, Jack -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum $Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:49:33 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: goflo@pacbell.net To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Monday, August 10, 1998 4:52 PM Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum -40dC to 100dC 100,700ohms at -40, to 185 ohms at 100dC Resistance goes down as temp goes up 5v Exactly the same as Intake air Engine off 4.9ish, idle like 2+, WOT slightly less than key on engine off In general .5v at idle, 4.8 WOT fine. v-8, 4 v-6, 3 I've been using the voltage drop across a LED to the module as the rpm signal. Base timing varies per application, 0-10d BTDC Yes One grounded when applied. One wire, grounded in gear. Vehicle Speed Sensor, 2000 pulses per mile. 12V Torque Converter Clutch, ecm grounds a solenoid to apply. Yes 600-6000 rpm in 2 sec.s in first gear. IBM Comp. Windoze 98. Very Kewl, no problems here Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:23:27 -0800 $From: Ludis Langens $Subject: Re: programming 101 and checksum Vance Rose wrote: That'll be a bit difficult to do for the 1228747 - the EPROM doesn't contain all the program code. Specifically, the checksum code won't be in the EPROM. -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ CSH field operatives have discovered an allergy to sharp metal. Symptoms are similar to the broken glass allergy. Will ask HQ for cone shaped shin guards. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Initial Bench ecm testing (Programming 101 included) $Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:35:01 -0400 Grounding the gear switch or not, vss signal or not make no huge difference in injector pulse widths. Using me eyes and O-Scope can measure no differences in pulse length/freguency, but follow up testing to follow with more accurate PWM devices. Applying a lower than desired rpm to the ecm doesn't make the IAC extend fully, matter of fact it stays a fair ways out. When close to but higher than desired rpm it extends all but to about the last 30 counts. There was mention of a 747 bin that cycled the knock counts to 255, then 0 to 255, and kept repeating that, it's BCC ABUL. Cheers Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:40:17 -0500 $From: Joe Boucher $Subject: Fuel and Spark tables The fuel and spark maps in the programming 101 text have rpm ranges from 400 to 3200 and 400 to 3600 respectively. What the hell does the ecm use above those values? I haven't a clue. Joe Boucher '70 RS/S Camaro '81 TBI Suburban -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:17:12 -0700 $From: peter paul fenske $Subject: Re: Fuel and Spark tables Hi Joe In a Truck app and a few others they use line interpolation. Or in other words they calculate based on a constant and rpm some apps have a high rpm extender table gl:peter At 02:40 PM 8/19/98 -0500, you wrote: 400 to 3200 -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: Fuel and Spark tables $Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:33:45 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Joe Boucher To: diy_efi@esl.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 4:07 PM Subject: Fuel and Spark tables 400 to 3200 Just a continuation of those values, usually by then your using the PE additions for timing and spark, due to the TPS enables... On some foreign stuff and other brands they read higher, but also ususally don't have the PE. PE is the adders that give you the feeling that the secondaries opened, and that give you the sensation that you are going really fast now.............. In say maybe the 808's, they go to like maybe 4800, and 6400... Cheers Bruce FBI had a raid here last night, something about 747's and reports of smoke and fire. They thought my 7 staff members might be terrorists, took lots of talking about ecms holding smoke, etc. Luckily one of them owned a Jag and understood Lucas wiring (?). -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: Fuel and Spark tables $Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:50:50 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: TWong29770@aol.com To: diy_efi@efi332.eng.ohio-state.edu Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Fuel and Spark tables There just so happens to be an active search going on with the 747 TBI's right now. As far as I know this is the first Public Attempt of figuring out an engine management devise. Also known as Programming 101, programming 808 has started but it's rather slow at the moment. Hopefully we'll get to do several stylies of 86-92 TPI prom codes. Getting the bench ecm stuff up on running has turned into a very major porject, and is just know showing any results. Some of us are trying to figure out how to read code but for the moment the only option is brute forcing it. This trial by error is very time consuming. A few individuals have figured out a fair amount of the 86-92. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: 101 material $Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 10:17:12 -0400 For those of you working at home on the programming 101 stuff, I have a few notes. In comparing BCC, ABUL, and AMUR (both at 332 incoming), I've noticed the following in bench running them. On the EGR Solenoid Apply Signal ABUL Min temp 45dC Min TPS .36v AMUR Min temp 21dC Min TPS .46v If you happen to work on this, and think you've found the locations, please send me a note, and I'll burn a chip to verify. Weither or not you want credit is your call. Speeching of chips, does anyone have a cheap emulator they can recommend that is easy to use, rebootable to change address is fine since this is for the bench stuff, must go 2732 to 27256 min. I'm dumb on new software, and can't find a site with demo stuff that makes sense so a recommendation would be appreciated. Anybody with some loanable diagnostic tools, please write me off list, nacelp@bright.net Cheers Bruce Feds were here again last night, looking for more 747 parts. Ya think they would know the difference between boeing, and delco. -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 $Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:43:44 -0400 I'll take bets that some folks were wondering if it was over, HEHEHE. Nope, just cranking up on the bench stuff.. For those of you new to the show, please consult the archives about all related matter before trying to use this information. Again first and formost this is for educational purposes, and may be illegal depending on where you live.......... While tinkering with the O2 sensor design I've noticed something. If running closed loop at idle, and if too rich the BL+INT numbers start to drop, BIG news right, well once they hit the bottom of their limits, the idle goes Open Loop. Then given some time with a lean O2 they recover, and the system goes closed loop again. If you want to maximise the ecm's control of idle then use the info. Carl shared the other day, and using an entry of 05 at $2A0, and 00 at $2A1, will work just fine, for rpm entries. But, how do you shut off that darn EGR when doing initial calibrations. Well, that is a chore, but setting $1BF to 00, $1B8 to FD, and $1B9 to FF will do very nicely thank you very much. ALSO BE ADVISED, you can have the EGR applied at idle. Makes for a lousy idle. The ecm looks at say an idle value of .36v TPS. That might also be or very close to the min EGR, so it might hunt between being on + off. Depending on the calibration you may or may not have to be moving for an EGR apply so if at all in doubt use a LED with a 1K resistor, and see if the EGR is getting an apply signal at idle, if you have an idle problem. If you have comments please feel free to e-mail me at nacelp@bright.net don't quote me the whole text, I get bunches of mail a day and don't need editing all the replies. If you take issue with something I say please e-mail me off list, and I and the staff will research the problem. Cheers Bruce Working on having the bench ecms give off a soft orange glow........... -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 00:02:10 -0400 $From: Jason Weir $Subject: Re: Programming 101 Bruce Plecan wrote: Ok,0x2a0 is RPM open loop off, why change my current value of 28 to 05 what's the conversion factor I don't think I need to lower the rpm at which it goes open loop, I would think you would go to ff, theoretically you never want closed loop off? 0x2a1 is RPM open loop on, good, current value of 00 expected, I suppose that means that it tries to go open loop as soon as the O2 sensor it hot and TPS is right no matter what the RPM is So are you saying that turning off the EGR flag isn't good enough, what exactly are these addresses? 0x1bf, 0x1b8 and 0x1b9. RPM EGR enable, TPS EGR off, RPM EGR off??? How about 0x29e MPH enable for closed loop, I have no VSS so should be 00, right. And 0x29f TPS enable for closed loop, should be a little lower than what my TPS at idle is at operating temperature, right? I still am missing lots of pieces of the puzzle but without a doubt its a picture of me in a straight jacket, thanks, -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:51:02 -0400 $From: Jason Weir $Subject: questions 101 Ok we learned the other day that 0x29e was MPH to enable closed loop, I have a value of 0x06 at 0x29e 0x06 = 6 (MPH is 0-255 I am assuming) So the ECM wants 6 MPH before going closed loop, must be a switch to ignore VSS at idle and go closed anyway if the other factors are met. What about those not running VSS, I am not and I still go closed loop at idle and cruise. What is 0x29e for? There are similar questions for 0x29f which is TPS to enable closed loop I have for 0x16 for a value at 0x29f 0x16=22 22 / 255 * 100 = 8.6 (TPS % = byte/255*100) So am I to assume that off of idle the ecm looks for 8.6 % tps to go closed loop? Ok to sum things up the ECM wants 6 MPH and at least 8.6 % TPS to go closed loop once its off idle, hmmmm something doesn't sound right. I will try to set both settings to 0x00 and then something higher to see if it has any affect on going closed loop? I'll let everyone know shortly. -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Re: questions 101 $Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:34:03 -0400 -----Original Message----- From: Jason Weir To: DIY_EFI Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 2:01 PM Subject: questions 101 This discussion on 101 is about the 747 in it's oem configuration. If you leave stuff off, that's beyond my intent. This is about how it is designed to work. Hell, ya can put the prom out and it will run, so what does that matter?. How about try disconnecting your P/N switch and see if it does? Or will it from a cold start go closed loop after, just sitting still?. Do you need to blip the throttle, for this closed loop?. Easy enough to verify, put the ol scanner on it, and see. Well ya won't know til ya get a vss on it. All you'll be looking at is some default values. . I -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: EFISYSTEMS@aol.com $Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:44:03 EDT $Subject: Re: questions 101 Closed loop 747,, If the value of 29E is met it will go closed loop If the value of 29F is met it will go closed loop If the value of 2A0 is met it will go closed loop It will go closed loop if any of these are met as long as the value for temp enable for closed loop is met,,,(it's right around this area if my memory serves me correct and obviously is the easiest way to turn off closed loop enables) HTH's -Carl Summers -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:08:27 -0400 $From: Jason Weir $Subject: More 101 stuff I just made what I think is a big discovery, but you know what they say about one man's treasure or something like that, Ok, I was checking out the following bins AJUK ABUL ACSW AKAL ASDU A 4.3 V6 chip that I got from Howell EFI A 4.3 V6 chip that I got from Bruce As we all know on the prom data is from 0x000 through 0x616 and code is from 0x617 through 0xfff, I checked the above files with Hex Workshop, with it you are able to compare files byte, by byte so I started checking the code (from 0x617 on) from the above files, I found them all to be exactly the same. So that means that the code is not different from a V6 to a V8 so Bruce was correct that the cylinder select is in the data somewhere... Maybe if we find it, a 7747 could be installed on a 4 cylinder someday??? Did everybody already know this an I am just finding out? Boy would that make me feel dumb.. ;) later, Jason oh yeah you can find Hex Workshop at http://www.bpsoft.com -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:34:13 -0400 $From: Jason Weir $Subject: 101 Stuff and promedit also I just put 2 files up on my web site, the first is an Excel Spreadsheet of the data from a 7747 eprom, all the code from 0x617 on I deleted, then I made all of the known addresses bold. It really shows how much we (read me, myself and I) don't know. Sorry its in hex but hey. Maybe I'll do another in binary, it will make the looking for new tables easier.. http://home.att.net/~jweir/747prom.htm The second file is my current .ecu file for those using prom edit/delco edit. There are 2 weird looking tables at the end # 26 and 27 check them out and lets hear what you think. If you don't have the newest version of promedit this file won't work because of the checksum recalculation additions, I still have not gotten the checksum thingy to work so it beeps at you every time but oh, well, http://home.att.net/~jweir/747ecu.htm If there is any tables/switches that I missed let me know and I will update both files. let me know if anyone needs the version of promedit I have... later. -- Jason Weir 88 Wrangler - 258 Chevy TBI Fayetteville, North Carolina http://home.att.net/~jweir/tbi/inject.htm --- TBI Installation Page http://home.att.net/~jweir/resume.htm --- My Resume mailto:jweir@worldnet.att.net -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $From: "Bruce Plecan" $Subject: Programming 101 $Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:28:01 -0400 If your just now tuning in, please go to the DIY_EFI site, and read all the related 101 material. Again, this is for the gm 1227747 ecm. The IAC is used in a number of ways. It's range can be from like 150, to 0. At the higher counts means it's bypassing more air, past the throttle butterflies. A cold engine start beings with turning off the engine. When the engine is turned off, the IAC resets to a given number of counts in preparation for the next start. A very common number of steps/ counts for the 747 is 145. If you read thru, the switches, table, settings part of the prom, you'll find some 145 entries (91h) {a total of 4 locations in the ones I looked at}. 05DE seems to be a high limit warm engine, 05C2 seems to be the cold start max setting. These numbers are alot more critical then they might appear. Since they also, interact with the Crank/Prime fuel. Too low of IAC will make for a very rich initial, unless the crank fuel is lessened. But, the engine does need x amount of fuel as a prime to start. X will change as the engine wears, as a function of coolant temp, and air temp.. Also, there is no mention about the VSS relationship, or anti-stall strategies mentioned. If you want to use a 747 on your Audi the first thing to change is the cylinder select at 0016. It understands 8 for 8 cylinder, 6 for 6 cyl, and seemingly 4 for 4 cyl, and 5 for 5cyl. Lots of other things would need to be changed, but that is at least a start. Bruce -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>- $Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:26:50 -0400 $From: Jason Weir $Subject: Learning to type.... (was Re: Programming 101 web page) Steve Ravet wrote: I give up... Steve you are correct...I think somebody secretly rewired my keyboard.. Either that or I need to get more sleep.. Well after numerous attempts there it is the table from 0x3c7 to 0x3c7.. Which we had called WOT fuel enrich but I now think is a fuel constant by RPM... Bruce can you prove/dis-prove any of this on the bench? Sorry for the typists confusion.. Jason Weir -<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>-