From c.kahler at verizon.net Sat Apr 1 19:40:07 2006 From: c.kahler at verizon.net (Chuck Kahler) Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:40:07 -0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just wanted to let the forum know I finished the ECM swap out and it worked great, started right up and ran fine. Thanks for all the help various folks gave me along the way. Only one question remains; initially when the engine first started up the idle was high about 1800 rpm and as the engine warmed up the idle stepped down to about 700, which was great. Now the idle stays high at about 1800 rpm even after the car is driven around. . Any suggestions as to what could be going on here. Thanks, Chuck From bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au Sun Apr 2 05:16:33 2006 From: bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au (Damian Long) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:16:33 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI Message-ID: <20060402101633.3010.qmail@web50312.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and replaced it with a custom disk. The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the RFI in. Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). All help appreciated. Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and may buy one. cheers Damian --------------------------------- On Yahoo!7 Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. From torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu Sun Apr 2 05:37:21 2006 From: torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F6rn_Forsman?=) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:37:21 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI In-Reply-To: <20060402101633.3010.qmail@web50312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060402101633.3010.qmail@web50312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <442FA961.6030708@gengas.nu> Try using screened wiring between the ECU and the sensor. Ground the screen at some suitable ground pin of the ECU (some general signal ground, ground for the screened cable to the O2 sensor or something) and let the screen be unconnected at the sensor. Another thing that might be worth trying is to low pass filter the signal from the sensor, in case there is some high frequency content from the ignition impulses overlaid on it. Probably, there is already some sort of filtering in the ECU but you might need a lower cut-off frequency. Best regards Torbj?rn Forsman Damian Long wrote: > Hello, > > I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and replaced it with a custom disk. > The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. > What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the RFI in. > Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). > All help appreciated. > > Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and may buy one. > > cheers > Damian > > > --------------------------------- > On Yahoo!7 > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > From slack at arlut.utexas.edu Sun Apr 2 11:35:16 2006 From: slack at arlut.utexas.edu (Charles Slack) Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:35:16 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI In-Reply-To: <20060402101633.3010.qmail@web50312.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060402101633.3010.qmail@web50312.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <442FFD44.2080808@arlut.utexas.edu> Damian, Looks like you may be having RFI running back through the DC supply lines. Put a large capacitor say 500 Uf @25 VDC and a small cap ( 0.01 uf @ 25 VDC) across the dc power leads to the CDI ignition module. You can try a 0.01 uf @100Vdc as a HF bypass across the pick up leads, and across the incoming air temp sensor. My 2 cents. Charlie Slack Austin, TX Damian Long wrote: >Hello, > > I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and replaced it with a custom disk. > The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. > What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the RFI in. > Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). > All help appreciated. > > Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and may buy one. > > cheers > Damian > > >--------------------------------- >On Yahoo!7 > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > From RFEHN at amfam.com Mon Apr 3 09:11:40 2006 From: RFEHN at amfam.com (Fehn, Ron G) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 09:11:40 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) Message-ID: did you reconfiqure the IAC steps? CF used two IAC's while the 7747 assumes only one. not sure if that is the issue but it is worthy of taking a look at. -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Kahler Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 7:40 PM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) Just wanted to let the forum know I finished the ECM swap out and it worked great, started right up and ran fine. Thanks for all the help various folks gave me along the way. Only one question remains; initially when the engine first started up the idle was high about 1800 rpm and as the engine warmed up the idle stepped down to about 700, which was great. Now the idle stays high at about 1800 rpm even after the car is driven around. . Any suggestions as to what could be going on here. Thanks, Chuck _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi __________________________________________________________________ If you do not want to receive future unsolicited commercial email advertisements or promotions from American Family you may opt-out by visiting the following website: Note: After opting-out, you may receive emails that you have specifically requested from American Family. If you are a current American Family customer, you may still receive transactional emails regarding your existing policies or accounts with American Family. American Family Mutual Insurance Company and its affiliates utilize the PossibleNow DNESolution to administer this email opt-out process. From parmega at auburn.edu Mon Apr 3 10:05:05 2006 From: parmega at auburn.edu (Greg Parmer) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:05:05 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001201c6572f$fdb67370$376ccc83@acesag.auburn.edu> Is the VSS hooked up? Did you take a road trip? IAC resets itself at a certain speed (35mph?) so it can find "zero". There is also a way to reset it via the ALDL (which is at least a stop gap fix) I think, but the preferred method is to use VSS so other ECM functions can also work. If you've already done that...I dunno. I'd verify with a scanner that the VSS is doing what you think it's doing. -greg > -----Original Message----- > did you reconfiqure the IAC steps? CF used two IAC's while the 7747 > assumes only one. not sure if that is the issue but it is worthy of > taking a look at. > > -----Original Message----- > > Just wanted to let the forum know I finished the ECM swap out and it > worked > great, started right up and ran fine. > > Thanks for all the help various folks gave me along the way. > > Only one question remains; initially when the engine first started up > the > idle was high about 1800 rpm and as the engine warmed up the idle > stepped > down to about 700, which was great. Now the idle stays high at about > 1800 > rpm even after the car is driven around. . > > Any suggestions as to what could be going on here. > > Thanks, > Chuck > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > __________________________________________________________________ > If you do not want to receive future unsolicited commercial email > advertisements or promotions from American Family you may opt-out > by visiting the following website: > > Note: After opting-out, you may receive emails that you have > specifically requested from American Family. If you are a current > American Family customer, you may still receive transactional emails > regarding your existing policies or accounts with American Family. > American Family Mutual Insurance Company and its affiliates utilize > the PossibleNow DNESolution to administer this email opt-out process. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From llemoine at gmail.com Mon Apr 3 11:22:57 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:22:57 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) In-Reply-To: <001201c6572f$fdb67370$376ccc83@acesag.auburn.edu> References: <001201c6572f$fdb67370$376ccc83@acesag.auburn.edu> Message-ID: Check your IAC pintle wiring. I had a similar problem with my Haltech once i installed it, got a few pins of the IAC servo wrong. It'd be quick to open but extremely slow to close, and the servo got extremely hot. Double check the pins, if its the same type of servo that 90% of GM cars has, its a two element servo motor (A/B) and each should have a low/hi pin. Make sure they're hooked up to the right place on the ECM. If your sure of this, try reversing the pins on the ECM for "A" and "B" but keep the polarity the same. if that doesn't work... go back to the A/B and reverse the polarity. i did a lot of mixing and matching before I got mine to work... --Lee On 4/3/06, Greg Parmer wrote: > > Is the VSS hooked up? Did you take a road trip? IAC resets itself at a > certain > speed (35mph?) so it can find "zero". There is also a way to reset it via > the > ALDL (which is at least a stop gap fix) I think, but the preferred method > is to > use VSS so other ECM functions can also work. > > If you've already done that...I dunno. I'd verify with a scanner that the > VSS is > doing what you think it's doing. > > -greg > > > > -----Original Message----- > > did you reconfiqure the IAC steps? CF used two IAC's while the 7747 > > assumes only one. not sure if that is the issue but it is worthy of > > taking a look at. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Just wanted to let the forum know I finished the ECM swap out and it > > worked > > great, started right up and ran fine. > > > > Thanks for all the help various folks gave me along the way. > > > > Only one question remains; initially when the engine first started up > > the > > idle was high about 1800 rpm and as the engine warmed up the idle > > stepped > > down to about 700, which was great. Now the idle stays high at about > > 1800 > > rpm even after the car is driven around. . > > > > Any suggestions as to what could be going on here. > > > > Thanks, > > Chuck > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > __________________________________________________________________ > > If you do not want to receive future unsolicited commercial email > > advertisements or promotions from American Family you may opt-out > > by visiting the following website: > > < > https://www3.dncsolution.com/SSL/DNESolution/OptOutCode/OptOut.aspx?el=5 > > > Note: After opting-out, you may receive emails that you have > > specifically requested from American Family. If you are a current > > American Family customer, you may still receive transactional emails > > regarding your existing policies or accounts with American Family. > > American Family Mutual Insurance Company and its affiliates utilize > > the PossibleNow DNESolution to administer this email opt-out process. > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) From c.kahler at verizon.net Tue Apr 4 11:42:29 2006 From: c.kahler at verizon.net (Chuck Kahler) Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 09:42:29 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Greg, I checked the A10 wire (VSS) and it is hooked up to the ecm. I?m assuming it ?s running to the correct place on the other end since the original ECM 1225550 worked fine. Idle worked as is should have. Thanks, Chuck Is the VSS hooked up? Did you take a road trip? IAC resets itself at a certain speed (35mph?) so it can find "zero". There is also a way to reset it via the ALDL (which is at least a stop gap fix) I think, but the preferred method is to use VSS so other ECM functions can also work. If you've already done that...I dunno. I'd verify with a scanner that the VSS is doing what you think it's doing. -greg From parmega at auburn.edu Tue Apr 4 14:23:12 2006 From: parmega at auburn.edu (Greg Parmer) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:23:12 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007401c6581d$369d9270$376ccc83@acesag.auburn.edu> Bummer. That sounds correct. Check out http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/ In particular, there's a thread about high idle BB TBI with info for troubleshooting. Once you've got the idle thing pegged...check out the Ultimate TBI thread. Notice it's in DIY-PROM so you've still got to be able to burn your own chips, but there's a reason it has so many views. :) Good luck. FWIW--I haven't added the EBL (see link above) to my crossfire '7747 yet, but I will very shortly. -greg > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of Chuck Kahler > Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 11:42 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) > > Greg, > I checked the A10 wire (VSS) and it is hooked up to the ecm. I'm assuming it > 's running to the correct place on the other end since the original ECM > 1225550 worked fine. Idle worked as is should have. > > Thanks, > Chuck > > > Is the VSS hooked up? Did you take a road trip? IAC resets itself at a > certain > speed (35mph?) so it can find "zero". There is also a way to reset it via > the > ALDL (which is at least a stop gap fix) I think, but the preferred method is > to > use VSS so other ECM functions can also work. > > If you've already done that...I dunno. I'd verify with a scanner that the > VSS is > doing what you think it's doing. > > -greg > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Wed Apr 5 20:13:20 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:13:20 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump Message-ID: I have a bad fuel pump (mechanical) on my boat. This is a 20+ year old mercruiser MCM470 and the fuel pump is discontinued according to the online sources I can find. Even if it wasn't I'd be reluctant to pay $130 for a mechanical fuel pump when I could get an electric for less, that would work with my plan for eventually putting on a megasquirt. Any suggestions for a marine fuel pump and regulator that will give me 3 psi now, and 15 psi when I switch to TBI? thanks, --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au Thu Apr 6 04:36:04 2006 From: bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au (Damian Long) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 19:36:04 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI Message-ID: <20060406093604.16632.qmail@web50304.mail.yahoo.com> Thank you to those who have sent some advice. First I ran better sheilded cable, replaced the condensor and ran a new engine earth cable. This seemed to tone down the noise but it was still there. I then replaced the solid core spark leads I was using for some stock suppression cable. This made a huge difference and problem seemed to be gone. I replaced the standard coil with the CDI ignition. The car started for the first time on the CDI ignion but there was intermitted noise on the signal causing problems once again. I reverted back to the coil and thought I'd do some tuning. After a while of running everything seemed fine. I was stopping and starting the engine as I was mapping. At one stage I went to start the car again and the problem was back worse than ever! Now it won't even start as the noise is messing the signal badly. This is a very frustrating problem. Obviously something is amiss and I am starting to suspect the grounding system. Perhaps a ground loop? very annoying, very random Damian diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: Send Diy_efi mailing list submissions to diy_efi at diy-efi.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org You can reach the person managing the list at diy_efi-owner at diy-efi.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Diy_efi digest..." Today's Topics: 1. RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) (Chuck Kahler) 2. Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI (Damian Long) 3. Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI (Torbj?rn Forsman) 4. Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI (Charles Slack) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:40:07 -0800 From: "Chuck Kahler" Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just wanted to let the forum know I finished the ECM swap out and it worked great, started right up and ran fine. Thanks for all the help various folks gave me along the way. Only one question remains; initially when the engine first started up the idle was high about 1800 rpm and as the engine warmed up the idle stepped down to about 700, which was great. Now the idle stays high at about 1800 rpm even after the car is driven around. . Any suggestions as to what could be going on here. Thanks, Chuck ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:16:33 +1000 (EST) From: Damian Long Subject: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Message-ID: <20060402101633.3010.qmail at web50312.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello, I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and replaced it with a custom disk. The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the RFI in. Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). All help appreciated. Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and may buy one. cheers Damian --------------------------------- On Yahoo!7 Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:37:21 +0200 From: Torbj?rn Forsman Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Message-ID: <442FA961.6030708 at gengas.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Try using screened wiring between the ECU and the sensor. Ground the screen at some suitable ground pin of the ECU (some general signal ground, ground for the screened cable to the O2 sensor or something) and let the screen be unconnected at the sensor. Another thing that might be worth trying is to low pass filter the signal from the sensor, in case there is some high frequency content from the ignition impulses overlaid on it. Probably, there is already some sort of filtering in the ECU but you might need a lower cut-off frequency. Best regards Torbj?rn Forsman Damian Long wrote: > Hello, > > I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and replaced it with a custom disk. > The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. > What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the RFI in. > Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). > All help appreciated. > > Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and may buy one. > > cheers > Damian > > > --------------------------------- > On Yahoo!7 > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:35:16 -0500 From: Charles Slack Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Message-ID: <442FFD44.2080808 at arlut.utexas.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Damian, Looks like you may be having RFI running back through the DC supply lines. Put a large capacitor say 500 Uf @25 VDC and a small cap ( 0.01 uf @ 25 VDC) across the dc power leads to the CDI ignition module. You can try a 0.01 uf @100Vdc as a HF bypass across the pick up leads, and across the incoming air temp sensor. My 2 cents. Charlie Slack Austin, TX Damian Long wrote: >Hello, > > I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and replaced it with a custom disk. > The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. > What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the RFI in. > Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). > All help appreciated. > > Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and may buy one. > > cheers > Damian > > >--------------------------------- >On Yahoo!7 > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 ************************************** --------------------------------- On Yahoo!7 Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Thu Apr 6 05:35:42 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 20:05:42 +0930 Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor andRFI References: <20060406093604.16632.qmail@web50304.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c65965$db8b8280$0132a8c0@marktbbc6iwaio> hi, what about a ceramic or greenncap across the signal ? mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damian Long" To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor andRFI > Thank you to those who have sent some advice. > > First I ran better sheilded cable, replaced the condensor and ran a new > engine earth cable. This seemed to tone down the noise but it was still > there. > > I then replaced the solid core spark leads I was using for some stock > suppression cable. This made a huge difference and problem seemed to be > gone. I replaced the standard coil with the CDI ignition. The car started > for the first time on the CDI ignion but there was intermitted noise on > the signal causing problems once again. > > I reverted back to the coil and thought I'd do some tuning. After a while > of running everything seemed fine. I was stopping and starting the engine > as I was mapping. At one stage I went to start the car again and the > problem was back worse than ever! Now it won't even start as the noise is > messing the signal badly. > > This is a very frustrating problem. Obviously something is amiss and I am > starting to suspect the grounding system. Perhaps a ground loop? very > annoying, very random > > Damian > > > diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: > Send Diy_efi mailing list submissions to > diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > diy_efi-owner at diy-efi.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Diy_efi digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 (correction) > (Chuck Kahler) > 2. Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI > (Damian Long) > 3. Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI > (Torbj?rn Forsman) > 4. Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and RFI > (Charles Slack) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:40:07 -0800 > From: "Chuck Kahler" > Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Swaping 1225550 crossfire with 1227747 > (correction) > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Just wanted to let the forum know I finished the ECM swap out and it > worked > great, started right up and ran fine. > > Thanks for all the help various folks gave me along the way. > > Only one question remains; initially when the engine first started up the > idle was high about 1800 rpm and as the engine warmed up the idle stepped > down to about 700, which was great. Now the idle stays high at about 1800 > rpm even after the car is driven around. . > > Any suggestions as to what could be going on here. > > Thanks, > Chuck > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:16:33 +1000 (EST) > From: Damian Long > Subject: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor and > RFI > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Message-ID: <20060402101633.3010.qmail at web50312.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hello, > > I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I > have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the > standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and > replaced it with a custom disk. > The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical > sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. I > am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. > What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The > ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the > engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF > interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like > 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken > sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but the > problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the > sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 > fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a > broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the RFI > in. > Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a > nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't > totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the circuit > inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a small > conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). > All help appreciated. > > Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in > Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and > may buy one. > > cheers > Damian > > > --------------------------------- > On Yahoo!7 > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 12:37:21 +0200 > From: Torbj?rn Forsman > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor > and RFI > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Message-ID: <442FA961.6030708 at gengas.nu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Try using screened wiring between the ECU and the sensor. Ground the > screen at some suitable ground pin of the ECU (some general signal > ground, ground for the screened cable to the O2 sensor or something) and > let the screen be unconnected at the sensor. > > Another thing that might be worth trying is to low pass filter the > signal from the sensor, in case there is some high frequency content > from the ignition impulses overlaid on it. Probably, there is already > some sort of filtering in the ECU but you might need a lower cut-off > frequency. > > Best regards > > Torbj?rn Forsman > > Damian Long wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I >> have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the >> standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and >> replaced it with a custom disk. >> The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical >> sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. >> I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. >> What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The >> ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the >> engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF >> interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like >> 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken >> sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but >> the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the >> sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 >> fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a >> broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the >> RFI in. >> Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a >> nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't >> totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the >> circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a >> small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). >> All help appreciated. >> >> Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in >> Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and >> may buy one. >> >> cheers >> Damian >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> On Yahoo!7 >> Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 11:35:16 -0500 > From: Charles Slack > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor > and RFI > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Message-ID: <442FFD44.2080808 at arlut.utexas.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Damian, Looks like you may be having RFI running back through the DC > supply lines. > Put a large capacitor say 500 Uf @25 VDC and a small cap ( 0.01 uf @ 25 > VDC) across > the dc power leads to the CDI ignition module. You can try a 0.01 uf > @100Vdc as > a HF bypass across the pick up leads, and across the incoming air temp > sensor. > My 2 cents. > Charlie Slack > Austin, TX > > > > Damian Long wrote: > >>Hello, >> >> I am installing a Walbro TDD ecu. It uses a motronic style 60-2 wheel. I >> have cam mounted this wheel. Basically what I have done is removed the >> standard cam mounted trigger disk (found inside the distributor) and >> replaced it with a custom disk. >> The sensor used to read the disk is a common standard Mitsubishi optical >> sensor that is found in the likes of Hyundai Excels, Nissans and Mazdas. >> I am using a sensor from an Nissan SR20 engine. >> What is happening is that everything works fine from a cold engine. The >> ecu reads the signal perfectly and the engine runs great. As soon as the >> engine gets warm it seems like the sensor (or wires) gets some RF >> interferance from the high tension leads. The rpm reading goes nuts like >> 54000rpm and ecu obviously complains. At first I thought maybe a broken >> sensor as I have seen these have problems before when they get hot but >> the problem seems very dependant on how and where I run the wires to the >> sensor. Also if I connect a high power CDI ignition the problem is 10 >> fold. It does it from cold or hot. This leads me to believe it is not a >> broken sensor and the temperature has something to do with letting the >> RFI in. >> Looking at the signal going into the ecu on an oscilliscope there is a >> nice square wave even when the strange RPM begin to happen. I don't >> totally understand why this is. It could be the RFI is causing the >> circuit inside the optical sensor to send false triggers (there is a >> small conditioning circuit inside the optical sensor). >> All help appreciated. >> >> Oh and Matt, if you are reading this. I live right near you. I am in >> Wollongong. I have seen your AFR gauges in a friends car. I like them and >> may buy one. >> >> cheers >> Damian >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>On Yahoo!7 >> Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. >>_______________________________________________ >>Diy_efi mailing list >>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 14, Issue 1 > ************************************** > > > > --------------------------------- > On Yahoo!7 > Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From donsauman at cythera.net Thu Apr 6 07:22:06 2006 From: donsauman at cythera.net (Don Sauman) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:22:06 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443507EE.80306@cythera.net> Hi Steve Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. Cheers Don Steve Ravet wrote: >I have a bad fuel pump (mechanical) on my boat. This is a 20+ year old >mercruiser MCM470 and the fuel pump is discontinued according to the >online sources I can find. Even if it wasn't I'd be reluctant to pay >$130 for a mechanical fuel pump when I could get an electric for less, >that would work with my plan for eventually putting on a megasquirt. > >Any suggestions for a marine fuel pump and regulator that will give me 3 >psi now, and 15 psi when I switch to TBI? > >thanks, >--steve > > >-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > -- Don Sauman 35 Asteroid Way Carlisle 6101 Western Australia P: 08 9361 0337 F: 08 9361 0581 M: 0427 389 547 CDMA M: 0413 746 695 GSM From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Thu Apr 6 10:51:21 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:51:21 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Don Sauman > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:22 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > > Hi Steve > > Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI > Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. > > Cheers > Don Hi Don, I could, if I could find one. I use the online parts system at www.mercruiserparts.com. I think I looked at most of the EFI mercruisers from '95 up, and all of them have discontinued the fuel pump. It's only sold as a kit, pump and fuel cooler together. So I google searched for marine fuel pumps and didn't come up with very much except diesel fuel pumps. That's why I was hoping someone could suggest an application or OEM part number. BTW, I found out that the replacement for my discontinued part is over $200. thanks, --steve > > > Steve Ravet wrote: > > >I have a bad fuel pump (mechanical) on my boat. This is a > 20+ year old > >mercruiser MCM470 and the fuel pump is discontinued according to the > >online sources I can find. Even if it wasn't I'd be > reluctant to pay > >$130 for a mechanical fuel pump when I could get an electric > for less, > >that would work with my plan for eventually putting on a megasquirt. > > > >Any suggestions for a marine fuel pump and regulator that > will give me > >3 psi now, and 15 psi when I switch to TBI? > > > >thanks, > >--steve > > > > > >-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any > attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other > person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > > > > > > -- > Don Sauman > 35 Asteroid Way > Carlisle 6101 > Western Australia > > P: 08 9361 0337 > F: 08 9361 0581 > M: 0427 389 547 CDMA > M: 0413 746 695 GSM > > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > From llemoine at gmail.com Thu Apr 6 11:01:26 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:01:26 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The best thing i can think of is a TBI fuel pump -- if i remember right the older GM cars TBI ran on approx 12 PSI, whereas the MPFI cars ran on 42 psi (had to swap quite a few fuel pumps doing 4 cylinder TBI to V6 MPFI conversions)... Maybe you could source a cavalier fuel pump for a 4 cylinder 1990's era ('88-94 would be the year) and then make some sort of pressure regulator or return rail? Just a thought. there may be adjustable FPR's out there that are specific to carbeuration levels for electronic fuel pump needs. On 4/6/06, Steve Ravet wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Don Sauman > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:22 AM > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > > > > Hi Steve > > > > Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI > > Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. > > > > Cheers > > Don > > Hi Don, I could, if I could find one. I use the online parts system at > www.mercruiserparts.com. I think I looked at most of the EFI > mercruisers from '95 up, and all of them have discontinued the fuel > pump. It's only sold as a kit, pump and fuel cooler together. So I > google searched for marine fuel pumps and didn't come up with very much > except diesel fuel pumps. That's why I was hoping someone could suggest > an application or OEM part number. > > BTW, I found out that the replacement for my discontinued part is over > $200. > > thanks, > --steve > > > > > > > Steve Ravet wrote: > > > > >I have a bad fuel pump (mechanical) on my boat. This is a > > 20+ year old > > >mercruiser MCM470 and the fuel pump is discontinued according to the > > >online sources I can find. Even if it wasn't I'd be > > reluctant to pay > > >$130 for a mechanical fuel pump when I could get an electric > > for less, > > >that would work with my plan for eventually putting on a megasquirt. > > > > > >Any suggestions for a marine fuel pump and regulator that > > will give me > > >3 psi now, and 15 psi when I switch to TBI? > > > > > >thanks, > > >--steve > > > > > > > > >-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any > > attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If > > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > > immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other > > person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > > information in any medium. Thank you. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Diy_efi mailing list > > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Don Sauman > > 35 Asteroid Way > > Carlisle 6101 > > Western Australia > > > > P: 08 9361 0337 > > F: 08 9361 0581 > > M: 0427 389 547 CDMA > > M: 0413 746 695 GSM > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) From galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 6 11:24:58 2006 From: galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net (Jason M.) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:24:58 -0400 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump References: Message-ID: <002901c65996$a6efd5e0$4101a8c0@BILLYBOB> There is an adjustable pressure regulator for this carried by most advance auto parts/autozones in with the holley/edelbrock/mr gasket carburetor parts section. There are also a couple of inline pumps but I'm not sure they will go up to ~12 psi. Don't know the fuel system design or the needs for corrosion resistance (salt water) but I was thinking a TBI automotive pump too. Something from the mid to late 80's/early 90's gm will handle the pressure but would need mounted in the tank. Ford had some pumps mounted on the frame rail externally, such as some dual tank trucks and the midsize Ford LTD/ Mercury Marquis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lee M. Lemoine" To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump The best thing i can think of is a TBI fuel pump -- if i remember right the older GM cars TBI ran on approx 12 PSI, whereas the MPFI cars ran on 42 psi (had to swap quite a few fuel pumps doing 4 cylinder TBI to V6 MPFI conversions)... Maybe you could source a cavalier fuel pump for a 4 cylinder 1990's era ('88-94 would be the year) and then make some sort of pressure regulator or return rail? Just a thought. there may be adjustable FPR's out there that are specific to carbeuration levels for electronic fuel pump needs. On 4/6/06, Steve Ravet wrote: > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Don Sauman > > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:22 AM > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > > > > Hi Steve > > > > Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI > > Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. > > > > Cheers > > Don > > Hi Don, I could, if I could find one. I use the online parts system at > www.mercruiserparts.com. I think I looked at most of the EFI > mercruisers from '95 up, and all of them have discontinued the fuel > pump. It's only sold as a kit, pump and fuel cooler together. So I > google searched for marine fuel pumps and didn't come up with very much > except diesel fuel pumps. That's why I was hoping someone could suggest > an application or OEM part number. > > BTW, I found out that the replacement for my discontinued part is over > $200. > > thanks, > --steve > > > > > > > Steve Ravet wrote: > > > > >I have a bad fuel pump (mechanical) on my boat. This is a > > 20+ year old > > >mercruiser MCM470 and the fuel pump is discontinued according to the > > >online sources I can find. Even if it wasn't I'd be > > reluctant to pay > > >$130 for a mechanical fuel pump when I could get an electric > > for less, > > >that would work with my plan for eventually putting on a megasquirt. > > > > > >Any suggestions for a marine fuel pump and regulator that > > will give me > > >3 psi now, and 15 psi when I switch to TBI? > > > > > >thanks, > > >--steve > > > > > > > > >-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any > > attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If > > you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender > > immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other > > person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > > information in any medium. Thank you. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Diy_efi mailing list > > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Don Sauman > > 35 Asteroid Way > > Carlisle 6101 > > Western Australia > > > > P: 08 9361 0337 > > F: 08 9361 0581 > > M: 0427 389 547 CDMA > > M: 0413 746 695 GSM > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Thu Apr 6 11:32:47 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:32:47 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Don Sauman > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:22 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > > Hi Steve > > Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI > Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. > > Cheers > Don I have found there are 3 mercruiser electric fuel pumps. 2 low pressure used with carbs, and 1 high pressure used with all EFI (TBI and MPI). The EFI pump is discontinued. From the parts diagrams it doesn't look like the carb pumps were used with regulators so I doubt they'll do 15 psi for EFI. One www page specified that the EFI pump doesn't have threads on the inlet fitting. It must be a friction fit onto the fuel cooler, which is probably why it's only sold preassembled now. Looks like a dead end with mercruiser parts unless I spring for the pump/cooler assembly. I took another look at David Allen's boat EFI page, he used an inline Ford pump. Is there any safety reason to not use an automotive fuel pump instead of a marine pump? --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From five10man at commspeed.net Thu Apr 6 11:47:21 2006 From: five10man at commspeed.net (Tom Visel) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:47:21 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44354619.6060406@commspeed.net> You can buy a pump now which will support your carb, for cheap, and buy a pump and regulator later to feed your EFI. This route would likely be less complicated / expensive and just as effective as buying one pump and either (1) buying a trick regulator or (2) rigging two regulators or some other setup to dump the massive excess flow you'd have running a carb with a pump designed for EFI. TomV Steve Ravet wrote: >I have a bad fuel pump (mechanical) on my boat. This is a 20+ year old >mercruiser MCM470 and the fuel pump is discontinued according to the >online sources I can find. Even if it wasn't I'd be reluctant to pay >$130 for a mechanical fuel pump when I could get an electric for less, >that would work with my plan for eventually putting on a megasquirt. > >Any suggestions for a marine fuel pump and regulator that will give me 3 >psi now, and 15 psi when I switch to TBI? > >thanks, >--steve > > >-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > > From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Thu Apr 6 12:01:31 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:01:31 -0500 Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jason M. > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:25 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > > Don't know the fuel system design or the needs for corrosion > resistance (salt water) but I was thinking a TBI automotive > pump too. Something from the mid to late 80's/early 90's gm > will handle the pressure but would need mounted in the tank. > Ford had some pumps mounted on the frame rail externally, > such as some dual tank trucks and the midsize Ford LTD/ > Mercury Marquis. No salt water so not so worried about corrosion, but generally items that generate sparks that are used on inboard boat engines need some kind of ignition suppression (starter, alternator, distributor). The fuel tank, lines, pump, etc. all sit back there next to the engine in a closed area that can collect vapors easily. No worries here with a mechanical pump but an electric one? --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From james.d.ulmer at usps.gov Thu Apr 6 12:07:37 2006 From: james.d.ulmer at usps.gov (Ulmer, James D - Denver, CO) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 12:07:37 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump Message-ID: <11C99472FAC536408B55E5E30924AB2D0387DE03@EAGNMNSXM18> Pumps for boat applications have to be rated for marine use. If you happen to get inspected and don't have rated parts, you'll get a ticket and be taken off the water. It should be no big deal to get a 15psi marine pump and a regulator to use it with a carb for the time being. Spend the money once for a good pump and you'll be that far ahead when you convert. Remember, we are talking TBI here, not MPEFI with its 80 psi pumps. Big Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Visel > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:47 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > > You can buy a pump now which will support your carb, for cheap, and buy > a pump and regulator later to feed your EFI. This route would likely be > less complicated / expensive and just as effective as buying one pump > and either (1) buying a trick regulator or (2) rigging two regulators or > some other setup to dump the massive excess flow you'd have running a > carb with a pump designed for EFI. > TomV > > Steve Ravet wrote: > From rwhughe at oplink.net Thu Apr 6 13:02:10 2006 From: rwhughe at oplink.net (Robert W Hughes) Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:02:10 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: Re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor In-Reply-To: <20060406122632.4DD7A484DA9@mail.oplnk.net> References: <20060406122632.4DD7A484DA9@mail.oplnk.net> Message-ID: <443557A2.9090209@oplink.net> > First I ran better sheilded cable, replaced the condensor and ran a > new engine earth cable. This seemed to tone down the noise but it was > still there. > > I then replaced the solid core spark leads I was using for some stock > suppression cable. This made a huge difference and problem seemed to > be gone. I replaced the standard coil with the CDI ignition. The car > started for the first time on the CDI ignion but there was > intermitted noise on the signal causing problems once again. Although this may not apply to your problems now, solid core spark leads and even spiral wrapped leads usually cause a lot of problems for the ecm. A quick fix that usually works with the spiral wrapped wires at least is to use a piece of regular resistance (carbon core) spark wire for the distributor-coil HV lead. -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering 29:40.237N, 95:28.726W or perhaps 30:55.265N, 95:20.590W Houston, Texas "The city with too much Oxygen" rwhughe at oplink.net From d at davidhunt.net Thu Apr 6 13:01:02 2006 From: d at davidhunt.net (d at davidhunt.net) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:01:02 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump References: <11C99472FAC536408B55E5E30924AB2D0387DE03@EAGNMNSXM18> Message-ID: <000d01c659a4$130856a0$af1ede0a@Independent> If we have any fuel pump mfgs as lurkers you should note that we need pumps that are less expensive and more versatile.....please dh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ulmer, James D - Denver, CO" To: Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump Pumps for boat applications have to be rated for marine use. If you happen to get inspected and don't have rated parts, you'll get a ticket and be taken off the water. It should be no big deal to get a 15psi marine pump and a regulator to use it with a carb for the time being. Spend the money once for a good pump and you'll be that far ahead when you convert. Remember, we are talking TBI here, not MPEFI with its 80 psi pumps. Big Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Visel > Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:47 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > > You can buy a pump now which will support your carb, for cheap, and buy > a pump and regulator later to feed your EFI. This route would likely be > less complicated / expensive and just as effective as buying one pump > and either (1) buying a trick regulator or (2) rigging two regulators or > some other setup to dump the massive excess flow you'd have running a > carb with a pump designed for EFI. > TomV > > Steve Ravet wrote: > _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From donsauman at cythera.net Thu Apr 6 18:26:10 2006 From: donsauman at cythera.net (Don Sauman) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 07:26:10 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4435A392.9050800@cythera.net> Safety reason --- no, only corrosion but that may not even be an issue. double clamp and sray with CRC Marine 66 or similar to leave a waxy coating over it. BTW the HP pumps I have seen are mounted close to forward RHS of engine black high. Cheers Don Steve Ravet wrote: > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org >>[mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Don Sauman >>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:22 AM >>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump >> >>Hi Steve >> >>Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI >>Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. >> >>Cheers >>Don >> >> > >I have found there are 3 mercruiser electric fuel pumps. 2 low pressure >used with carbs, and 1 high pressure used with all EFI (TBI and MPI). >The EFI pump is discontinued. From the parts diagrams it doesn't look >like the carb pumps were used with regulators so I doubt they'll do 15 >psi for EFI. One www page specified that the EFI pump doesn't have >threads on the inlet fitting. It must be a friction fit onto the fuel >cooler, which is probably why it's only sold preassembled now. Looks >like a dead end with mercruiser parts unless I spring for the >pump/cooler assembly. > >I took another look at David Allen's boat EFI page, he used an inline >Ford pump. Is there any safety reason to not use an automotive fuel >pump instead of a marine pump? > >--steve > > >-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > -- Don Sauman 35 Asteroid Way Carlisle 6101 Western Australia P: 08 9361 0337 F: 08 9361 0581 M: 0427 389 547 CDMA M: 0413 746 695 GSM From donsauman at cythera.net Thu Apr 6 18:28:14 2006 From: donsauman at cythera.net (Don Sauman) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 07:28:14 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: <11C99472FAC536408B55E5E30924AB2D0387DE03@EAGNMNSXM18> References: <11C99472FAC536408B55E5E30924AB2D0387DE03@EAGNMNSXM18> Message-ID: <4435A40E.7040109@cythera.net> Inspected -- ticket -- Where do you guys live??? :-) Cheers Don Ulmer, James D - Denver, CO wrote: >Pumps for boat applications have to be rated for marine use. If you >happen to get inspected and don't have rated parts, you'll get a ticket >and be taken off the water. It should be no big deal to get a 15psi >marine pump and a regulator to use it with a carb for the time being. >Spend the money once for a good pump and you'll be that far ahead when >you convert. Remember, we are talking TBI here, not MPEFI with its 80 >psi pumps. > >Big Jim > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] >> >> >On > > >>Behalf Of Tom Visel >>Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:47 AM >>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump >> >>You can buy a pump now which will support your carb, for cheap, and >> >> >buy > > >>a pump and regulator later to feed your EFI. This route would likely >> >> >be > > >>less complicated / expensive and just as effective as buying one pump >>and either (1) buying a trick regulator or (2) rigging two regulators >> >> >or > > >>some other setup to dump the massive excess flow you'd have running a >>carb with a pump designed for EFI. >>TomV >> >>Steve Ravet wrote: >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > -- Don Sauman 35 Asteroid Way Carlisle 6101 Western Australia P: 08 9361 0337 F: 08 9361 0581 M: 0427 389 547 CDMA M: 0413 746 695 GSM From donsauman at cythera.net Thu Apr 6 18:31:06 2006 From: donsauman at cythera.net (Don Sauman) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 07:31:06 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: <4435A392.9050800@cythera.net> References: <4435A392.9050800@cythera.net> Message-ID: <4435A4BA.4060401@cythera.net> Should read block high not black high Don Don Sauman wrote: > Safety reason --- no, only corrosion but that may not even be an > issue. double clamp and sray with CRC Marine 66 or similar to leave a > waxy coating over it. > > BTW the HP pumps I have seen are mounted close to forward RHS of > engine black high. > > Cheers > Don > > Steve Ravet wrote: > >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org >>> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Don Sauman >>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:22 AM >>> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump >>> >>> Hi Steve >>> >>> Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI >>> Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Don >>> >> >> >> I have found there are 3 mercruiser electric fuel pumps. 2 low pressure >> used with carbs, and 1 high pressure used with all EFI (TBI and MPI). >> The EFI pump is discontinued. From the parts diagrams it doesn't look >> like the carb pumps were used with regulators so I doubt they'll do 15 >> psi for EFI. One www page specified that the EFI pump doesn't have >> threads on the inlet fitting. It must be a friction fit onto the fuel >> cooler, which is probably why it's only sold preassembled now. Looks >> like a dead end with mercruiser parts unless I spring for the >> pump/cooler assembly. >> >> I took another look at David Allen's boat EFI page, he used an inline >> Ford pump. Is there any safety reason to not use an automotive fuel >> pump instead of a marine pump? >> >> --steve >> >> >> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments >> are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the >> intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not >> disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or >> store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >> >> > -- Don Sauman 35 Asteroid Way Carlisle 6101 Western Australia P: 08 9361 0337 F: 08 9361 0581 M: 0427 389 547 CDMA M: 0413 746 695 GSM From mdacmail at optusnet.com.au Thu Apr 6 20:01:36 2006 From: mdacmail at optusnet.com.au (mdacmail at optusnet.com.au) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 11:01:36 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] Walbro 60-2 trigger Message-ID: <200604070101.k3711awp019520@mail05.syd.optusnet.com.au> An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available Url: http://lists.diy-efi.org/pipermail/diy_efi/attachments/20060407/f22f55d7/attachment.pl From llemoine at gmail.com Fri Apr 7 08:59:02 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 09:59:02 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: <4435A4BA.4060401@cythera.net> References: <4435A392.9050800@cythera.net> <4435A4BA.4060401@cythera.net> Message-ID: It'd be interesting to see them try and inspect an in-tank fuel pump... Just a thought ;) Kind of sounds like over here in the states for "State emission testing and safety inspection".. My '93 Z24 convertible with the 3.1 V6 Mclaren Turbo motor in it... They ran it up on the dyno for emissions with a wideband in the tailpipe on the stock turbo ECU (which was rediculously rich)... at 3 mph they had dilluted their WB02 at the tailpipe, and theres a cat on the car! Anyways, needless to say it hasn't ever passed inspection here... and now they start to suspend registrations if its not inspected within 7 days of registration. Just gotta know where to go to get around that sort of thing man... The local cops will bust your chops all night long around here "how'd you get this thing to pass"... etc etc.. they just want a peek under the hood is all... They also passed some legislation locally where they can do nitrous checks -- some kid got rear ended with a nitrous tank in his spare tire well in the trunk -- snapped the neck off and i don't need to explain how many pieces they found him in... Either way, i get my engine bay inpsected often enough ;) Best of luck with your project, sounds like there are viable options afterall! --LL On 4/6/06, Don Sauman wrote: > > Should read block high not black high > > Don > > Don Sauman wrote: > > > Safety reason --- no, only corrosion but that may not even be an > > issue. double clamp and sray with CRC Marine 66 or similar to leave a > > waxy coating over it. > > > > BTW the HP pumps I have seen are mounted close to forward RHS of > > engine black high. > > > > Cheers > > Don > > > > Steve Ravet wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > >>> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Don Sauman > >>> Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:22 AM > >>> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump > >>> > >>> Hi Steve > >>> > >>> Could you not use the 15 psi electric pump from the TBI > >>> Mercruiser/Volvo/Chey V8 and regulate it back to 3-6 psi for a carb. > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> Don > >>> > >> > >> > >> I have found there are 3 mercruiser electric fuel pumps. 2 low > pressure > >> used with carbs, and 1 high pressure used with all EFI (TBI and MPI). > >> The EFI pump is discontinued. From the parts diagrams it doesn't look > >> like the carb pumps were used with regulators so I doubt they'll do 15 > >> psi for EFI. One www page specified that the EFI pump doesn't have > >> threads on the inlet fitting. It must be a friction fit onto the fuel > >> cooler, which is probably why it's only sold preassembled now. Looks > >> like a dead end with mercruiser parts unless I spring for the > >> pump/cooler assembly. > >> > >> I took another look at David Allen's boat EFI page, he used an inline > >> Ford pump. Is there any safety reason to not use an automotive fuel > >> pump instead of a marine pump? > >> > >> --steve > >> > >> > >> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments > >> are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the > >> intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not > >> disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or > >> store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > Don Sauman > 35 Asteroid Way > Carlisle 6101 > Western Australia > > P: 08 9361 0337 > F: 08 9361 0581 > M: 0427 389 547 CDMA > M: 0413 746 695 GSM > > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) From efi at dyakron.com Fri Apr 7 09:17:06 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 10:17:06 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: References: <4435A4BA.4060401@cythera.net> <4435A392.9050800@cythera.net> <4435A4BA.4060401@cythera.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060407101411.035280f0@dyakron.com> Hi Lee, aside from pistons were there major differences in those engines when compare to say, a 1990 3.1 V6 Chev? Like rods,crank, cam or Just curious I saw one in the wrecker's that was officially in "unknown" condition. (translation: cheap) MV At 09:59 AM 4/7/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Kind of sounds like over here in the states for "State emission testing and >safety inspection".. My '93 Z24 convertible with the 3.1 V6 Mclaren Turbo >motor in it... They ran it up on the dyno for emissions with a wideband in >the tailpipe on the stock turbo ECU (which was rediculously rich)... at 3 >mph they had dilluted their WB02 at the tailpipe, and theres a cat on the >car! Anyways, needless to say it hasn't ever passed inspection here... and >now they start to suspend registrations if its not inspected within 7 days >of registration. From llemoine at gmail.com Fri Apr 7 09:25:12 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:25:12 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] boat fuel pump In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20060407101411.035280f0@dyakron.com> References: <4435A392.9050800@cythera.net> <4435A4BA.4060401@cythera.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20060407101411.035280f0@dyakron.com> Message-ID: Higher nickel content in the block, slightly different casting (stronger due to ribbing added inside the engine) used a stock cam, a 3.4 DOHC oil pump (higher flowing) theres a unique oil pan to that engine for the turbos oil return, forged rods, mahle forged pistons, lower c/r (8.7:1 versus the stock 9:1) and a different intake plenum (tapped for IAT, vaccum brake connection was plugged)... Thats about it really stock lower intake plenum, the heads were different with larger swirl-pots, and the rear exhaust manifold is different ,as is the 'crossover' pipe which was flawed from the factory. Dependant on hwo your going to use this motor, i'd suggest making your own or having one made professionally... They only made 2500 of those total, 1250 each year '89 and '90. The cars are collectible if you can find them intact.. On 4/7/06, Mike V wrote: > > Hi Lee, > aside from pistons were there major differences in those > engines when compare to say, a 1990 3.1 V6 Chev? > Like rods,crank, cam or > Just curious I saw one in the wrecker's that was > officially in "unknown" condition. (translation: cheap) > MV > > At 09:59 AM 4/7/2006 -0400, you wrote: > > >Kind of sounds like over here in the states for "State emission testing > and > >safety inspection".. My '93 Z24 convertible with the 3.1 V6 Mclaren > Turbo > >motor in it... They ran it up on the dyno for emissions with a wideband > in > >the tailpipe on the stock turbo ECU (which was rediculously rich)... at > 3 > >mph they had dilluted their WB02 at the tailpipe, and theres a cat on the > >car! Anyways, needless to say it hasn't ever passed inspection > here... and > >now they start to suspend registrations if its not inspected within 7 > days > >of registration. > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) From A6intruder at myo-p.com Sat Apr 8 21:10:50 2006 From: A6intruder at myo-p.com (Daniel Nicoson) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:10:50 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector offset vs voltage Message-ID: Anyone have the table showing the standard size Ford injectors and their corresponding voltage offsets? (19#, 24#, 30#, 36#, 42#) I thought I had it saved on my hard drive but for the life of me, I can't find it. I also had a link to it on the www.nilesedge... web site but that thing is gone now. I've been all over Google and several discussion groups "files sections" and I can't find it. Any help? Thanks, Dan Nicoson From bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au Mon Apr 10 02:21:19 2006 From: bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au (Damian Long) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:21:19 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor Message-ID: <20060410072119.70708.qmail@web50309.mail.yahoo.com> Ok, well I've all but given up. Saturday I was ready to give up and I may just do that and try find someone with the knowledge to fault find the problem. I've thought some more about what is going on. If the signal coming from the optical sensor is clean then the problem is at the sensor right? I mean if I have a dirty signal I should see it on the scope shouldn't I? The problem is still EMI related because changing the plug leads made such a difference. My thinking then is that the problem is assisted by the EMI but is in fact in the sensor. Possibly thermal expansion (as Jay mention to me earlier) is causing misalignment in the sender reciever or extending distance between just that little bit. In turn the EMI is enough to trigger a false falling edge inside the conditioning circuit. Possible? I don't know. But the signal is clean and the ecu rpm jumps all over the shop in spikes just like EMI causes, but the scope signal looks clean. Matt, I tried calling you a couple times. I sent you an email also. Would love to catch up if only for a chat about my issues. My no. is 0421912980 thanks Damian Long diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: Send Diy_efi mailing list submissions to diy_efi at diy-efi.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org You can reach the person managing the list at diy_efi-owner at diy-efi.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Diy_efi digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Injector offset vs voltage (Daniel Nicoson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:10:50 -0400 From: "Daniel Nicoson" Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector offset vs voltage To: "DIY_ EFI" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anyone have the table showing the standard size Ford injectors and their corresponding voltage offsets? (19#, 24#, 30#, 36#, 42#) I thought I had it saved on my hard drive but for the life of me, I can't find it. I also had a link to it on the www.nilesedge... web site but that thing is gone now. I've been all over Google and several discussion groups "files sections" and I can't find it. Any help? Thanks, Dan Nicoson ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 ************************************** --------------------------------- On Yahoo!7 Music: Create your own personalised radio station. From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Mon Apr 10 02:59:30 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:29:30 +0930 Subject: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor References: <20060410072119.70708.qmail@web50309.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001901c65c74$b2932fb0$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> hi, is the signal level high enough ? might be clean but not high enough, mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damian Long" To: Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:51 PM Subject: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor > Ok, well I've all but given up. Saturday I was ready to give up and I may > just do that and try find someone with the knowledge to fault find the > problem. > > I've thought some more about what is going on. If the signal coming from > the optical sensor is clean then the problem is at the sensor right? I > mean if I have a dirty signal I should see it on the scope shouldn't I? > The problem is still EMI related because changing the plug leads made such > a difference. > > My thinking then is that the problem is assisted by the EMI but is in > fact in the sensor. Possibly thermal expansion (as Jay mention to me > earlier) is causing misalignment in the sender reciever or extending > distance between just that little bit. In turn the EMI is enough to > trigger a false falling edge inside the conditioning circuit. Possible? I > don't know. But the signal is clean and the ecu rpm jumps all over the > shop in spikes just like EMI causes, but the scope signal looks clean. > > Matt, I tried calling you a couple times. I sent you an email also. Would > love to catch up if only for a chat about my issues. My no. is 0421912980 > > thanks > > Damian Long > > diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: > Send Diy_efi mailing list submissions to > diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > diy_efi-owner at diy-efi.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Diy_efi digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Injector offset vs voltage (Daniel Nicoson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:10:50 -0400 > From: "Daniel Nicoson" > Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector offset vs voltage > To: "DIY_ EFI" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Anyone have the table showing the standard size Ford injectors and their > corresponding voltage offsets? (19#, 24#, 30#, 36#, 42#) > > I thought I had it saved on my hard drive but for the life of me, I can't > find it. > > I also had a link to it on the www.nilesedge... web site but that thing is > gone now. > > I've been all over Google and several discussion groups "files sections" > and > I can't find it. > > Any help? > > Thanks, > > Dan Nicoson > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 > ************************************** > > > > --------------------------------- > On Yahoo!7 > Music: Create your own personalised radio station. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au Mon Apr 10 16:43:37 2006 From: bigcow_610 at yahoo.com.au (Damian Long) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:43:37 +1000 (EST) Subject: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor Message-ID: <20060410214337.83153.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> There is a 5v pull up inside the ecu. This pulls any rising edge to the full 5v. When you rotate the sensor and it is not connected to the pull up, the rising edge of the signal gets smaller the faster you rotate. It gets down as low as 0.4v. I was originally feeding the sensor only 5v and the signal was even lower. I now feed the sensor a 12v supply and the signal is higher at 0.4v. Possibly the noise is creating a tiny rising edge and the pull up inside the ecu is pulling this high to 5v thus creating a false reading? The pull up resistor is 680ohm. This seemed a very low value to me for a pull up but thats what Walbro told me to fit. Do you think changing this value would help me? I am going to try to get a scope that can log output. Then I can confirm that there are extra rising edges. I can't tell with my cheap nasty scope because its just a very jumbled square wave. Damian diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: Send Diy_efi mailing list submissions to diy_efi at diy-efi.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org You can reach the person managing the list at diy_efi-owner at diy-efi.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Diy_efi digest..." Today's Topics: 1. re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor (Damian Long) 2. Re: re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor (mark krawczuk) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:21:19 +1000 (EST) From: Damian Long Subject: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Message-ID: <20060410072119.70708.qmail at web50309.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Ok, well I've all but given up. Saturday I was ready to give up and I may just do that and try find someone with the knowledge to fault find the problem. I've thought some more about what is going on. If the signal coming from the optical sensor is clean then the problem is at the sensor right? I mean if I have a dirty signal I should see it on the scope shouldn't I? The problem is still EMI related because changing the plug leads made such a difference. My thinking then is that the problem is assisted by the EMI but is in fact in the sensor. Possibly thermal expansion (as Jay mention to me earlier) is causing misalignment in the sender reciever or extending distance between just that little bit. In turn the EMI is enough to trigger a false falling edge inside the conditioning circuit. Possible? I don't know. But the signal is clean and the ecu rpm jumps all over the shop in spikes just like EMI causes, but the scope signal looks clean. Matt, I tried calling you a couple times. I sent you an email also. Would love to catch up if only for a chat about my issues. My no. is 0421912980 thanks Damian Long diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: Send Diy_efi mailing list submissions to diy_efi at diy-efi.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org You can reach the person managing the list at diy_efi-owner at diy-efi.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Diy_efi digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Injector offset vs voltage (Daniel Nicoson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:10:50 -0400 From: "Daniel Nicoson" Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector offset vs voltage To: "DIY_ EFI" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Anyone have the table showing the standard size Ford injectors and their corresponding voltage offsets? (19#, 24#, 30#, 36#, 42#) I thought I had it saved on my hard drive but for the life of me, I can't find it. I also had a link to it on the www.nilesedge... web site but that thing is gone now. I've been all over Google and several discussion groups "files sections" and I can't find it. Any help? Thanks, Dan Nicoson ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 ************************************** --------------------------------- On Yahoo!7 Music: Create your own personalised radio station. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:29:30 +0930 From: "mark krawczuk" Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor To: Message-ID: <001901c65c74$b2932fb0$6baef0dc at marka7e6m8swbp> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original hi, is the signal level high enough ? might be clean but not high enough, mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damian Long" To: Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:51 PM Subject: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor > Ok, well I've all but given up. Saturday I was ready to give up and I may > just do that and try find someone with the knowledge to fault find the > problem. > > I've thought some more about what is going on. If the signal coming from > the optical sensor is clean then the problem is at the sensor right? I > mean if I have a dirty signal I should see it on the scope shouldn't I? > The problem is still EMI related because changing the plug leads made such > a difference. > > My thinking then is that the problem is assisted by the EMI but is in > fact in the sensor. Possibly thermal expansion (as Jay mention to me > earlier) is causing misalignment in the sender reciever or extending > distance between just that little bit. In turn the EMI is enough to > trigger a false falling edge inside the conditioning circuit. Possible? I > don't know. But the signal is clean and the ecu rpm jumps all over the > shop in spikes just like EMI causes, but the scope signal looks clean. > > Matt, I tried calling you a couple times. I sent you an email also. Would > love to catch up if only for a chat about my issues. My no. is 0421912980 > > thanks > > Damian Long > > diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: > Send Diy_efi mailing list submissions to > diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > diy_efi-owner at diy-efi.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Diy_efi digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Injector offset vs voltage (Daniel Nicoson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:10:50 -0400 > From: "Daniel Nicoson" > Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector offset vs voltage > To: "DIY_ EFI" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Anyone have the table showing the standard size Ford injectors and their > corresponding voltage offsets? (19#, 24#, 30#, 36#, 42#) > > I thought I had it saved on my hard drive but for the life of me, I can't > find it. > > I also had a link to it on the www.nilesedge... web site but that thing is > gone now. > > I've been all over Google and several discussion groups "files sections" > and > I can't find it. > > Any help? > > Thanks, > > Dan Nicoson > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 14, Issue 9 > ************************************** > > > > --------------------------------- > On Yahoo!7 > Music: Create your own personalised radio station. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi End of Diy_efi Digest, Vol 14, Issue 10 *************************************** --------------------------------- On Yahoo!7 Messenger: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Mon Apr 10 23:07:58 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:07:58 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? Message-ID: I've created a PCB using Eagle PCB software. Before I send it off I'd appreciate some comments, especially on the PCB and any issues that may affect reliability or manufacturability. I have gifs of the schematic and the PCB on the FTP site: ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw.gif ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw_pcb.gif This is a USB to VPW converter, that will allow connecting a PC to a GM OBD2 computer via the USB port. It will work for scan tool operations or reflashing operations. thanks --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From niche at iinet.net.au Tue Apr 11 00:16:48 2006 From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:16:48 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] re: Problem with cam mounted optical trigger sensor In-Reply-To: <20060410214337.83153.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060410214337.83153.qmail@web50305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060411130334.02ca6eb0@203.0.178.192> At 05:43 AM 4/11/06, you wrote: >There is a 5v pull up inside the ecu. This pulls any rising edge to the full 5v. When you rotate the sensor and it is not connected to the pull up, the rising edge of the signal gets smaller the faster you rotate. It gets down as low as 0.4v. If you are measuring this with a meter, then thats what you'd expect as the frequency response of the meter will effectively see the average, unless its an RMS meter - either way the reading is meaningless... > I was originally feeding the sensor only 5v and the signal was even lower. I now feed the sensor a 12v supply and the signal is higher at 0.4v. Possibly the noise is creating a tiny rising edge and the pull up inside the ecu is pulling this high to 5v thus creating a false reading? You really need a good CRO/probe to see the edges, if the sensor is meant for 5v then do you think its safe to feed it 12v - especially when its feeding into a ECU with only a 5v pullup ? > The pull up resistor is 680ohm. This seemed a very low value to me for a pull up but thats what Walbro told me to fit. Do you think changing this value would help me? Thats par for the course, you dont change the value, you are not redesigning the ECU, hopefully, you are only fixing a sensor or power or cable fault... > I am going to try to get a scope that can log output. Then I can confirm that there are extra rising edges. I can't tell with my cheap nasty scope because its just a very jumbled square wave. Ah ha, did you use this to get the 0.4v reading above when it was connected to the ECU (ie When the pullup was operating), if so then it sounds like either your sensor output stage has been damaged or its connected incorectly or if you are measuring this when your cable/loom is connected then you have a cable/loom fault, does the body of the sensor need a ground connection ? Just out of sheer curiousity, what sort of CRO and probe do you have, I ask this because when we had a student in the mid 80's work part time with our nucleonic ore flow gauges he used an old cro with an abysmally low input impedance and probes that had a broken compensation cap, so the net effect was the pulses he was seeing from the scintillation counters looked like tree silhouette's from a nuclear test, ie flopping all over the place and no chance he could see a stable trigger - as you seem to have trigger problems I wonder whats up with the cro or sensor ? Regards from Mike Massen Network Power Systems Lab 08 9444 8961 Mb 0438 048961 Perth, Western Australia * VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! * Skyline/NIssan/VL Milspec ignition driver in development * Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars * Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the best oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for printed circuit boards. Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au From diy-efi at andrewblyth.co.uk Tue Apr 11 07:33:50 2006 From: diy-efi at andrewblyth.co.uk (Andrew Blyth) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:33:50 +0100 Subject: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? Message-ID: <004001c65d64$2f7271e0$2900a8c0@WORKCOMP> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ravet" Subject: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? Before I send it off I'd appreciate some comments, especially on the PCB and any issues that may affect reliability or manufacturability.thanks --steve Steve Nice schematic! I like the way you partitioned up the PIC symbol, I'll have to try that myself the next time I create a schematic. On the PCB layout, I have a few tips I can recommend, I'll list them here (in no particular order). 1) You seem to have used minimal width tracks throughout the PCB. Why not consider making them thicker; you could probably get at least twice as thick and still be able to cleanly get into those surface mount pads on U2. 2) Try making the pad that you use for the vias a bit bigger. That way, if the drill is not quite centered, you wont run the risk of creating an open circuit between the via and the track. 3) Try and pour copper on both sides of your board and connect it to your ground signal. This will have the benefits of greatly improving your EMI / EMC performance whilst reducing the amount of waste copper that your PCB manufacturer has to throw away. 4) I would consider moving U1 closer to the USB connector. There will be some high frequency signals on the USB lines and I'd try and kep it away from other signals if possible. 5) Be careful when positioning the tracks to your crystal oscillator. As a rule, you should never run any other signals in between the tracks tyo your crystal. Try to place the crystal as close as possible to the micro to reduce the track length. For example, a better position for Q2 would have been on the left side of U1, with the tracks being as direct as possible. 6) The decoupling caps that you have on your board need to be as close as faesibly possible to the ICs. In their current position, they will be of little use, especially with the thin tracks. Try to keep them within 10mm of the power pins of the IC. 7) I would have a look at the design rules you have set up for this board. There are some awfully small gaps between some signals. Take a look at the tracks going around the resistors and capacitors at the bottom of the board. For a board like this, you could raise the track to pad spacing to 40 thou quite easily. This will avoid lots of headaches in the future. 8) This is more a best practice than a rule, but have a look at the bottom right hand corner of U2. Instead of just connecting two adjacent pads together, I would recommend bringing the track into the open then going back into the next pad, creating a "U" shape. This will help if you have to debug the board. Currently, it would be difficult to see whether that connection is a short or if it should be there without consulting the PCB design. 9) Carefully consider the position of your component identifications and values on the silkscreen. Make sure that they dont fall on top of a via or go outside of the bord boundary, you won't be able to read them after manufacture. Also, try to avoid placing them under a component. Although you can see them when you are assembling the board, you wont be able to see them when the parts have been placed, making component identification without the CAD drawings vary hard. 10) Finally, put some writing on a copper layer, maybe write what the board is for. This will help you remember what the board is for when you pick it up a few years down the line and it will avoid getting the top and bottom copper layers mixed up during manufacture. Reversed text really stands out when someone is checking a design. I hope these tips help you to make the board more reliable and manufacturable. Andrew Blyth From diy-efi at andrewblyth.co.uk Tue Apr 11 07:44:35 2006 From: diy-efi at andrewblyth.co.uk (Andrew Blyth) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:44:35 +0100 Subject: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? Message-ID: <008701c65d65$b06b2610$2900a8c0@WORKCOMP> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ravet" Subject: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? Before I send it off I'd appreciate some comments, especially on the PCB and any issues that may affect reliability or manufacturability.thanks --steve Steve Nice schematic! I like the way you partitioned up the PIC symbol, I'll have to try that myself the next time I create a schematic. On the PCB layout, I have a few tips I can recommend, I'll list them here (in no particular order). 1) You seem to have used minimal width tracks throughout the PCB. Why not consider making them thicker; you could probably get at least twice as thick and still be able to cleanly get into those surface mount pads on U2. 2) Try making the pad that you use for the vias a bit bigger. That way, if the drill is not quite centered, you wont run the risk of creating an open circuit between the via and the track. 3) Try and pour copper on both sides of your board and connect it to your ground signal. This will have the benefits of greatly improving your EMI / EMC performance whilst reducing the amount of waste copper that your PCB manufacturer has to throw away. 4) I would consider moving U1 closer to the USB connector. There will be some high frequency signals on the USB lines and I'd try and kep it away from other signals if possible. 5) Be careful when positioning the tracks to your crystal oscillator. As a rule, you should never run any other signals in between the tracks tyo your crystal. Try to place the crystal as close as possible to the micro to reduce the track length. For example, a better position for Q2 would have been on the left side of U1, with the tracks being as direct as possible. 6) The decoupling caps that you have on your board need to be as close as faesibly possible to the ICs. In their current position, they will be of little use, especially with the thin tracks. Try to keep them within 10mm of the power pins of the IC. 7) I would have a look at the design rules you have set up for this board. There are some awfully small gaps between some signals. Take a look at the tracks going around the resistors and capacitors at the bottom of the board. For a board like this, you could raise the track to pad spacing to 40 thou quite easily. This will avoid lots of headaches in the future. 8) This is more a best practice than a rule, but have a look at the bottom right hand corner of U2. Instead of just connecting two adjacent pads together, I would recommend bringing the track into the open then going back into the next pad, creating a "U" shape. This will help if you have to debug the board. Currently, it would be difficult to see whether that connection is a short or if it should be there without consulting the PCB design. 9) Carefully consider the position of your component identifications and values on the silkscreen. Make sure that they dont fall on top of a via or go outside of the bord boundary, you won't be able to read them after manufacture. Also, try to avoid placing them under a component. Although you can see them when you are assembling the board, you wont be able to see them when the parts have been placed, making component identification without the CAD drawings vary hard. 10) Finally, put some writing on a copper layer, maybe write what the board is for. This will help you remember what the board is for when you pick it up a few years down the line and it will avoid getting the top and bottom copper layers mixed up during manufacture. Reversed text really stands out when someone is checking a design. I hope these tips help you to make the board more reliable and manufacturable. Andrew Blyth From tsokorai at xperts.cl Tue Apr 11 08:41:37 2006 From: tsokorai at xperts.cl (Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:41:37 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] Diagnostic TDC sensor on an old BMW Message-ID: <200604110941.37736.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Hi guys, Any of you know what are the p-p voltages at mid-RPMs of the variable reluctance TDC sensor on the front vibration damper of an old M20 BMW engine (K-jet, M20B23) that's connected only to the dealership diagnostic connector? I'm trying to use it for triggering a 3.1/2.8 GM DIS ignition module. -- Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Apr 11 09:36:22 2006 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:36:22 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200604112236.22459@death.2.spammers> On Tuesday 11 April 2006 12:07, Steve Ravet wrote: > I've created a PCB using Eagle PCB software. Before I send it off > I'd appreciate some comments, especially on the PCB and any issues > that may affect reliability or manufacturability. I have gifs of > the schematic and the PCB on the FTP site: > ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw.gif > ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw_pcb.gif > This is a USB to VPW converter, that will allow connecting a PC to > a GM OBD2 computer via the USB port. It will work for scan tool > operations or reflashing operations. First thing that struck me was the number of vias. You've probably played around a bit with component placement and routes but I simply have an aversion to vias because of the plated-thru holes sometimes not being plated all the way through. -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because X against HTML mail | they threaten." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Tue Apr 11 09:56:43 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:56:43 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Bernd Felsche > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:36 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? > > On Tuesday 11 April 2006 12:07, Steve Ravet wrote: > > I've created a PCB using Eagle PCB software. Before I send > it off I'd > > appreciate some comments, especially on the PCB and any issues that > > may affect reliability or manufacturability. I have gifs of the > > schematic and the PCB on the FTP site: > > > ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw.gif > > ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw_pcb.gif > > > This is a USB to VPW converter, that will allow connecting > a PC to a > > GM OBD2 computer via the USB port. It will work for scan tool > > operations or reflashing operations. > > First thing that struck me was the number of vias. You've > probably played around a bit with component placement and > routes but I simply have an aversion to vias because of the > plated-thru holes sometimes not being plated all the way through. Haven't played much, basically just hit the autoroute button and this is what came up. I've also read Andrew's and Bill's comments -- thanks very much for the feedback! Those are exactly the kinds of comments I was looking for. thanks, --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu Tue Apr 11 15:28:14 2006 From: torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F6rn_Forsman?=) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:28:14 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] Diagnostic TDC sensor on an old BMW In-Reply-To: <200604110941.37736.tsokorai@xperts.cl> References: <200604110941.37736.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Message-ID: <443C115E.4030408@gengas.nu> Typically, such sensors use to give between a few volts and up to, say, 20 volts p-p, very much depending on the load resistance. By choosing a suitable load, the p-p voltage can be kept relatively independent of the engine rpm. It is probably best to connect a scope and do some measurements with various load resistors connected (probably in the range 1 kohm - 10 kohm). If it isn't possible to run the engine for the moment, it might be useful to set up the vibration damper on a lathe, drill press or distributor test rig, and put the reluctance sensor at the same distance from the damper as on the engine. On most german cars with a diagnostic "TDC" sensor, it will not give a signal at TDC but at 20? BTDC. Best regards Torbj?rn Forsman Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. wrote: > Hi guys, > Any of you know what are the p-p voltages at mid-RPMs of the variable reluctance TDC sensor on the front vibration damper of an old M20 BMW engine (K-jet, M20B23) that's connected only to the dealership diagnostic connector? > > I'm trying to use it for triggering a 3.1/2.8 GM DIS ignition module. > From bill.washington at nec.com.au Tue Apr 11 19:57:14 2006 From: bill.washington at nec.com.au (Bill Washington) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:57:14 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] PCB layout In-Reply-To: <20060411135033.0A94737744@ns1.nec.com.au> References: <20060411135033.0A94737744@ns1.nec.com.au> Message-ID: <443C506A.5030003@nec.com.au> > Subject: > [Diy_efi] circuit and PCB proofreaders? Steve, Two comments, 1. In a number of place on the pcb you have traces running parallel at minimum spacing for 1 two 2 inches, these will tend to couple sharp rising edges to each other, particularly as there seems to be no ground plane. I would separate these traces by 3 to 4 times the track width where possible. 2. I would suggest flooding the board top and bottom with ground plane. since the board is no very tight that should not be a problem. You can add extra vias to tie the ground planed on both sides together and also to get the ground plane into areas blocked off by tracks and components. The ground plane flooding reduces coupling between tracks and also makes it less prone to external interference coupling in. Regards Bill > From: > "Steve Ravet" > Date: > Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:07:58 -0500 > To: > "diy_efi" > > To: > "diy_efi" > > > I've created a PCB using Eagle PCB software. Before I send it off I'd appreciate some comments, especially on the PCB and any issues that may affect reliability or manufacturability. I have gifs of the schematic and the PCB on the FTP site: > > ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw.gif > ftp://diy-efi.org/uploads/sgr/usb_vpw_pcb.gif > > This is a USB to VPW converter, that will allow connecting a PC to a GM OBD2 computer via the USB port. It will work for scan tool operations or reflashing operations. > > thanks > --steve > > > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. > > > > > man/listinfo/diy_efi From cwrxr at earthlink.net Wed Apr 12 18:46:43 2006 From: cwrxr at earthlink.net (Curtis Richards) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:46:43 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] HP fuel pump Message-ID: <443D9163.80004@earthlink.net> Hi Steve, I used an Accel 74701 ( delivers 26 GPH at 45psi for around $160 ) for the Megasquirt installation on my CJ2a and am very happy with it. Curt From efi at dyakron.com Wed Apr 12 22:06:47 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 23:06:47 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] HP fuel pump In-Reply-To: <443D9163.80004@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060412230534.0352b7b0@dyakron.com> At 07:46 PM 4/12/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Steve, > >I used an Accel 74701 ( delivers 26 GPH at 45psi for around $160 ) for the >Megasquirt installation on my CJ2a and am very happy with it. > >Curt Summit & Jegs have hipressure MSD high pressure pumps for $90-ish. They look like the external Ford EFI pump with a MSD sticker. Mike V From tsokorai at xperts.cl Wed Apr 12 23:01:19 2006 From: tsokorai at xperts.cl (Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:01:19 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] Diagnostic TDC sensor on an old BMW (now with a view of signals) In-Reply-To: <443C115E.4030408@gengas.nu> References: <200604110941.37736.tsokorai@xperts.cl> <443C115E.4030408@gengas.nu> Message-ID: <200604130001.19363.tsokorai@xperts.cl> On Tuesday 11 April 2006 16:28, Torbj?rn Forsman wrote: > On most german cars with a diagnostic "TDC" sensor, it will not give a > signal at TDC but at 20? BTDC. Thanks Torbj?rn! Well, I did a quick & dirty check of the output as you suggested: http://www.sokorai.cl/crank_sensor.png That's the variable reluctance sensor output captured with my laptop's soundcard ( I don't have proper oscilloscope :( ) I noticed some things: 1) Stock solid core wires and non-resistor sparkplugs are *very* bad for interference! Resistors on each end doesen't seem to help much. Note that even the channel that wasn't connected to the sensor (it wasn't connected to anything, just a 1cm pigtail emerging from the cable's shield) even picked the HV ignition signal. The VR sensor picked this HV signal even stronger than the ones from the damper timing marks. 2) My marks are too late timing-wise. I kept the "OT" (BTDC "Obere Totenpunkt"?) mark and did the other six relative to this one to emulate the needed signal for the old GM V6 DIS triggering signal. 3) The sensor has very low output voltage. This recording was using several K-Ohms between the sensor leads. BTW, what's the minimum triggering voltage for a GM DIS module? 4) What the heck is that lower strength sinusoidal signal between the timing signals?? damper irregularities? -- Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. From aoturneriii at tds.net Mon Apr 17 01:32:50 2006 From: aoturneriii at tds.net (Arby) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 02:32:50 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Message-ID: <001501c661e8$c113e010$0300a8c0@NATALIE> Anyone know where I can find information on swapping the 24 pin chips for 28 pin flash chips? What 4 pins don't get connected? Thanks for any help you can provide. From mmob at wavecable.com Mon Apr 17 05:08:41 2006 From: mmob at wavecable.com (Mike O'Brien) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 03:08:41 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs In-Reply-To: <001501c661e8$c113e010$0300a8c0@NATALIE> Message-ID: http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=41 This web site should answer your questions Craig is a good guy Mike -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Arby Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 11:33 PM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Anyone know where I can find information on swapping the 24 pin chips for 28 pin flash chips? What 4 pins don't get connected? Thanks for any help you can provide. _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From tsokorai at xperts.cl Mon Apr 17 08:21:17 2006 From: tsokorai at xperts.cl (Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 09:21:17 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] GM V6 three connector DIS ign module pinout? Message-ID: <200604170921.17320.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Can anyone tell me what are the correct (+) and GND pins on these modules (or the colors of the original wiring) with respect to the connector's tab? I don't know if my notes are incorrect and I wired the module backwards and fried it, or if the "el cheapo" eBay module was DOA :( -- Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. From llemoine at gmail.com Mon Apr 17 09:07:42 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:07:42 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] GM V6 three connector DIS ign module pinout? In-Reply-To: <200604170921.17320.tsokorai@xperts.cl> References: <200604170921.17320.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Message-ID: What type of ECM / What application. There should be a '12777xxxx' number somewhere on the casing. Are the connectors two rows of pins or three? (Weatherproof or not?) On 4/17/06, Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. wrote: > > Can anyone tell me what are the correct (+) and GND pins on these modules > (or > the colors of the original wiring) with respect to the connector's tab? > > I don't know if my notes are incorrect and I wired the module backwards > and > fried it, or if the "el cheapo" eBay module was DOA :( > > -- > Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) From tsokorai at xperts.cl Mon Apr 17 09:24:55 2006 From: tsokorai at xperts.cl (Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:24:55 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] GM V6 three connector DIS ign module pinout? In-Reply-To: References: <200604170921.17320.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Message-ID: <200604171024.55516.tsokorai@xperts.cl> On Monday 17 April 2006 10:07, Lee M. Lemoine wrote: > There should be a '12777xxxx' number somewhere on the casing. ?Are the > connectors two rows of pins or three? ?(Weatherproof or not?) I don't have the module with me right now (I'm at the office ;) to check the number, but it is the one with two connectors on one side (one with three pins for the crank pos. sens., and the other with six pins for the ECM/IGN connection), and a two pin connector on the other side, that's supposed to be the power connector. All weatherproof and facing forward. -- Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. From llemoine at gmail.com Mon Apr 17 09:43:48 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:43:48 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] GM V6 three connector DIS ign module pinout? In-Reply-To: <200604171024.55516.tsokorai@xperts.cl> References: <200604170921.17320.tsokorai@xperts.cl> <200604171024.55516.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Message-ID: Ok so a straight ignition module -- not an actual ECM then? This is from my car... ('93 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24, 3.1 liter MPFI V6 with DIS) http://garrett.turbochargedsoul.com/help/Ignition%20-%20Complete%20Picture.gif And the connector pinouts (which pin is A / B/ etc) http://garrett.turbochargedsoul.com/help/Ignition%20-%20no%20description).gif I believe the pinout is the same on each GM module with the 3 connectors. There are some variants which use a weatherpak connector that bolts on. -- Lee On 4/17/06, Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. wrote: > > On Monday 17 April 2006 10:07, Lee M. Lemoine wrote: > > There should be a '12777xxxx' number somewhere on the casing. Are the > > connectors two rows of pins or three? (Weatherproof or not?) > > I don't have the module with me right now (I'm at the office ;) to check > the > number, but it is the one with two connectors on one side (one with three > pins for the crank pos. sens., and the other with six pins for the ECM/IGN > connection), and a two pin connector on the other side, that's supposed to > be > the power connector. All weatherproof and facing forward. > > -- > Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) From aoturneriii at tds.net Mon Apr 17 12:11:10 2006 From: aoturneriii at tds.net (Arby) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:11:10 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs References: Message-ID: <003301c66241$edf4fd90$0300a8c0@NATALIE> Thanks Mike I have looked at Moates adapters on his site and I have purchased other items from him(good stuff). But I was trying to figure out a way to change chips without buying an adapter every time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike O'Brien" To: "'Arby'" ; Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 6:08 AM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs > http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=41 > This web site should answer your questions > > Craig is a good guy > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On > Behalf Of Arby > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 11:33 PM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs > > Anyone know where I can find information on swapping the 24 pin chips for > 28 > pin flash chips? What 4 pins don't get connected? Thanks for any help > you > can provide. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > From scoutii76 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 17 13:59:28 2006 From: scoutii76 at hotmail.com (Bill USN-1) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:59:28 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs In-Reply-To: <001501c661e8$c113e010$0300a8c0@NATALIE> Message-ID: Thirdgen.org should have the info. IIRC you tie pins 1,2,27,28 to pin 26. You should be able to use a standard 28 pin socket. Bill USN-1 -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Arby Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:33 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Anyone know where I can find information on swapping the 24 pin chips for 28 pin flash chips? What 4 pins don't get connected? Thanks for any help you can provide. _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From tsokorai at xperts.cl Mon Apr 17 16:46:54 2006 From: tsokorai at xperts.cl (Tomas J. Sokorai Sch.) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 17:46:54 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] GM V6 three connector DIS ign module pinout? In-Reply-To: References: <200604170921.17320.tsokorai@xperts.cl> <200604171024.55516.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Message-ID: <200604171746.54515.tsokorai@xperts.cl> On Monday 17 April 2006 10:43, Lee M. Lemoine wrote: > Ok so a straight ignition module -- not an actual ECM then? > > This is from my car... ('93 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24, 3.1 liter MPFI V6 with > DIS) > http://garrett.turbochargedsoul.com/help/Ignition%20-%20Complete%20Picture. >gif > > And the connector pinouts (which pin is A / B/ etc) > http://garrett.turbochargedsoul.com/help/Ignition%20-%20no%20description).g >if Thanks, that's what I was looking for!! ... but the sad part (for my wallet ;) , is that I wired the module right according to these pinouts when I tried to test it, and seems my ebay module came DOA. -- Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. From llemoine at gmail.com Mon Apr 17 17:35:21 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:35:21 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] GM V6 three connector DIS ign module pinout? In-Reply-To: <200604171746.54515.tsokorai@xperts.cl> References: <200604170921.17320.tsokorai@xperts.cl> <200604171024.55516.tsokorai@xperts.cl> <200604171746.54515.tsokorai@xperts.cl> Message-ID: Is this a 6 cylinder? i've got a few spare modules hanging around... -- Lee On 4/17/06, Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. wrote: > > On Monday 17 April 2006 10:43, Lee M. Lemoine wrote: > > Ok so a straight ignition module -- not an actual ECM then? > > > > This is from my car... ('93 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24, 3.1 liter MPFI V6 > with > > DIS) > > > http://garrett.turbochargedsoul.com/help/Ignition%20-%20Complete%20Picture > . > >gif > > > > And the connector pinouts (which pin is A / B/ etc) > > > http://garrett.turbochargedsoul.com/help/Ignition%20-%20no%20description).g > >if > > Thanks, that's what I was looking for!! ... but the sad part (for my > wallet ;) , is that I wired the module right according to these pinouts > when > I tried to test it, and seems my ebay module came DOA. > > -- > Tomas J. Sokorai Sch. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!) From aoturneriii at tds.net Tue Apr 18 14:46:43 2006 From: aoturneriii at tds.net (Arby) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:46:43 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs References: Message-ID: <009a01c66320$d2f59150$0300a8c0@NATALIE> Thanks Bill I'm having a bit of trouble finding that on the Thirdgen website. But as long as I just need to take those 4 pins (1,2,27,28) and tie them to 26 I'll be alright. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill USN-1" To: "'Arby'" ; Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Thirdgen.org should have the info. IIRC you tie pins 1,2,27,28 to pin 26. You should be able to use a standard 28 pin socket. Bill USN-1 -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Arby Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:33 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Anyone know where I can find information on swapping the 24 pin chips for 28 pin flash chips? What 4 pins don't get connected? Thanks for any help you can provide. _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From scoutii76 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 18 15:30:21 2006 From: scoutii76 at hotmail.com (Bill USN-1) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:30:21 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs In-Reply-To: <009a01c66320$d2f59150$0300a8c0@NATALIE> Message-ID: Here's a link to the thread. Straight from Craig Moates!! http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/291941-eeprom-burner-other-option html?highlight=2732+eeprom Bill USN-1 -----Original Message----- From: Arby [mailto:aoturneriii at tds.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:47 PM To: Bill USN-1; diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Thanks Bill I'm having a bit of trouble finding that on the Thirdgen website. But as long as I just need to take those 4 pins (1,2,27,28) and tie them to 26 I'll be alright. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill USN-1" To: "'Arby'" ; Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Thirdgen.org should have the info. IIRC you tie pins 1,2,27,28 to pin 26. You should be able to use a standard 28 pin socket. Bill USN-1 -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Arby Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:33 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Anyone know where I can find information on swapping the 24 pin chips for 28 pin flash chips? What 4 pins don't get connected? Thanks for any help you can provide. _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From aoturneriii at tds.net Wed Apr 19 03:55:11 2006 From: aoturneriii at tds.net (Arby) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:55:11 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs References: Message-ID: <016001c6638e$f9672470$0300a8c0@NATALIE> Thanks Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill USN-1" To: "'Arby'" ; Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Here's a link to the thread. Straight from Craig Moates!! http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/291941-eeprom-burner-other-option html?highlight=2732+eeprom Bill USN-1 -----Original Message----- From: Arby [mailto:aoturneriii at tds.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:47 PM To: Bill USN-1; diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Thanks Bill I'm having a bit of trouble finding that on the Thirdgen website. But as long as I just need to take those 4 pins (1,2,27,28) and tie them to 26 I'll be alright. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill USN-1" To: "'Arby'" ; Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Thirdgen.org should have the info. IIRC you tie pins 1,2,27,28 to pin 26. You should be able to use a standard 28 pin socket. Bill USN-1 -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Arby Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 8:33 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] EEPROMs Anyone know where I can find information on swapping the 24 pin chips for 28 pin flash chips? What 4 pins don't get connected? Thanks for any help you can provide. _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Mon Apr 24 00:58:17 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 15:28:17 +0930 Subject: [Diy_efi] tim ganger Message-ID: <000801c66764$153ce260$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> hey tim , have u sent those memcals of which i paid u for over 4 months ago, i have tried email u heaps of times but no joy, i do notice taht u lurk on this forum mark k From boucherj at prodigy.net Mon Apr 24 21:32:03 2006 From: boucherj at prodigy.net (Joe Boucher) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:32:03 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? In-Reply-To: <000801c66764$153ce260$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp> Message-ID: Would someone mind saving me a bunch of research and tell me if reprogramming an OBDII PCM is possible just like OBDI computers. Or in other words, is software similar to TunerCat available for OBDII fuel injection controllers? Thanks, Joe Boucher From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Mon Apr 24 22:20:13 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:20:13 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? Message-ID: Sure is -- tunercat has OBD2 tuners. check his WWW page for applications --steve ________________________________ From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org on behalf of Joe Boucher Sent: Mon 4/24/2006 9:32 PM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? Would someone mind saving me a bunch of research and tell me if reprogramming an OBDII PCM is possible just like OBDI computers. Or in other words, is software similar to TunerCat available for OBDII fuel injection controllers? Thanks, Joe Boucher _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net Tue Apr 25 09:09:16 2006 From: mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net (Scott Pearson) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:09:16 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? References: Message-ID: <080a01c66871$d8c59b60$6601a8c0@DELL3G> It isn't linked from the main page, but here's the direct link. http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/obd2tnr_desc.html Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Ravet" To: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? > Sure is -- tunercat has OBD2 tuners. check his WWW page for applications > > --steve > > ________________________________ > > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org on behalf of Joe Boucher > Sent: Mon 4/24/2006 9:32 PM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? > > > > Would someone mind saving me a bunch of research and tell me if > reprogramming an OBDII PCM is possible just like OBDI computers. Or in > other > words, is software similar to TunerCat available for OBDII fuel injection > controllers? > > Thanks, > > Joe Boucher > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the > contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the > information in any medium. Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > From efi at dyakron.com Tue Apr 25 09:57:42 2006 From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:57:42 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? In-Reply-To: <080a01c66871$d8c59b60$6601a8c0@DELL3G> References: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060425105701.0351e350@dyakron.com> At 09:09 AM 4/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: >It isn't linked from the main page, but here's the direct link. >http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/obd2tnr_desc.html > >Scott Looks good. Does anyone know the price? mv From tracy.reich at us.army.mil Tue Apr 25 11:02:12 2006 From: tracy.reich at us.army.mil (tracy.reich) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:02:12 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? References: <5.1.0.14.0.20060425105701.0351e350@dyakron.com> Message-ID: <002f01c66881$a4576a60$6801a8c0@bitch1> CHECK OUT THE SUPPORT FORUM AT THIS LINK http://www.monodax.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike V" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? > At 09:09 AM 4/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: >>It isn't linked from the main page, but here's the direct link. >>http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/obd2tnr_desc.html >> >>Scott > > Looks good. > Does anyone know the price? > mv > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Tue Apr 25 12:25:27 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:25:27 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mike V > Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:58 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] OBDII PCM reprograming? > > At 09:09 AM 4/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >It isn't linked from the main page, but here's the direct link. > >http://www.tunercat.com/tnr_desc/obd2tnr_desc.html > > > >Scott > > Looks good. > Does anyone know the price? > mv The hardware used to be $350 or so, if I recall correctly. He's taken the prices off the price sheet, they used to be there. OBD2 TDFs are still there, $80 each. Probably should write him to find out what's going on with the OBD2 hardware. --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From airhawk at hawkgt.net Tue Apr 25 20:06:10 2006 From: airhawk at hawkgt.net (The AirHawk) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:06:10 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: OBDII PCM reprograming? References: Message-ID: <00b201c668cd$a243bb10$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> >> Looks good. >> Does anyone know the price? >> mv >The hardware used to be $350 or so, if I recall correctly. He's taken >the prices off the price sheet, they used to be there. OBD2 TDFs are >still there, $80 each. Probably should write him to find out what's >going on with the OBD2 hardware. >--steve It's all been shifted to the Mondax website, I guess he's selling through a 3rd-party: http://www.monodax.com/products.html For info, email here: tc at tunercat.com >From the Mondax website: TunerCat OBDII Pricing Information OBD2_07 1996 - 1997 Vortec Trucks (4.3L, 5.7L, 7.4L) OBD2_06 1998 - 2000 Vortec Trucks (4.3L, 5.7L, 7.4L) OBD2_02 1999 - 2000 LS1 Trucks (4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L) OBD2_01 1999 - 2001 Camaro/Firebird/Corvette LS1 OBD2_03 2001 - 2002 LS1 Trucks (4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L) The following are scheduled for release early this year: OBD2_04 2003 - 2004 LS1 Trucks (4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L) OBD2_08 1996 - 1997 Camaro/Firebird/Corvette LT1 OBD2_09 1997 - 1998 Camaro/Firebird/Corvette LS1 OBD2_05 2002 - 2003 Camaro/Firebird/Corvette LS1 OBD2_10 2004 Corvette The OBDII Tuner package sells for $379.95 and includes the following: OBDII Tuner Program on CD OBDII/RS232 Interface OBDII Cable RS232 Cable Your choice of one Vehicle Definition File Additional Vehicle Definition Files can be purchased for $79.95 each. As with all our software, the OBDII Tuner program is not VIN locked to a single vehicle and as a registered user you are always eligible for free updates to the software and Vehicle Definition Files. From dirtrider218 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 26 13:23:36 2006 From: dirtrider218 at hotmail.com (John Smith1882) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:23:36 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Nissan KA24E ECU and CAS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a TB, MAF, injectors, fuel rail, ECU,etc from an '89-90 Nissan 240SX that I am going to be adapting to another engine. The crank angle sensor(CAS) and injector trigger are in the distributor, but that is the one part of the systemI do not have. The CAS is, from what I understand, mainly for ignition. The ignition will handled separate from the ECU. I still need the injector trigger wheel, though, and I can build that. My qestions are: 1. Will the ECU still funtion without the CAS, or will it go into "limp" mode? 2. If I cannot remove it, does anyone know if I can remove the CAS function in the binary file? 3. If I can't do either of those, does anyone have a clear picture of what the trigger wheel looks like? All I have is a bad illustration from an online factory service manual. I have been all over the net looking and even the Nissan tuners/chippers/programmers can't help for whatever reason. From five10man at commspeed.net Wed Apr 26 15:48:43 2006 From: five10man at commspeed.net (Tom Visel) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:48:43 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Nissan KA24E ECU and CAS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <444FDCAB.9010709@commspeed.net> 1. ECU will get all sorts of stupid without CAS. Anything from not running at all to limp-in. 2. Don't know. 3. 360 slots, photocoupler-read, conditioning circuit inside the distributor. 4 more slots, also read by a photocoupler, with a conditioning circuit inside the distributor. Subject to fouling with oil if the distributor bushing is loose. Altima uses the same electrical setup but mounted to the back of the head, and is easier to find in the JY for testing purposes. HTH! TomV John Smith1882 wrote: > I have a TB, MAF, injectors, fuel rail, ECU,etc from an '89-90 Nissan > 240SX that I am going to be adapting to another engine. The crank > angle sensor(CAS) and injector trigger are in the distributor, but > that is the one part of the systemI do not have. The CAS is, from what > I understand, mainly for ignition. The ignition will handled separate > from the ECU. I still need the injector trigger wheel, though, and I > can build that. > > My qestions are: > 1. Will the ECU still funtion without the CAS, or will it go into > "limp" mode? > 2. If I cannot remove it, does anyone know if I can remove the CAS > function in the binary file? > 3. If I can't do either of those, does anyone have a clear picture of > what the trigger wheel looks like? All I have is a bad illustration > from an online factory service manual. > > I have been all over the net looking and even the Nissan > tuners/chippers/programmers can't help for whatever reason. > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > From flozano at twistedandes.com Thu Apr 27 21:28:58 2006 From: flozano at twistedandes.com (flozano at twistedandes.com) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:28:58 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] SB 400 TBI In-Reply-To: <444FDCAB.9010709@commspeed.net> References: <444FDCAB.9010709@commspeed.net> Message-ID: <20060427222858.7oax4vl6bmok404s@www.twistedandes.com> Hello I have an Small Block 400 from a Chevy Caprice 74, and I want to install a TBI system. anyone made same convertion? wich injectors? 5.7 or 7.4? I have a 747 ECU, anyone have a custom .bin forthis engine? Thanks Facundo From skishop69 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 27 23:01:09 2006 From: skishop69 at yahoo.com (Bret Levandowski) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Diy_efi] SB 400 TBI In-Reply-To: <20060427222858.7oax4vl6bmok404s@www.twistedandes.com> Message-ID: <20060428040109.13108.qmail@web60314.mail.yahoo.com> As a matter of fact, yes. My motor is slightly built but works great. I used the injectors from the police model 5.7l Caprice. The flow rating was just right. I'm also running 18psi on the injectors instead of 12. I'll need to know what mods if any you will be making to the motor. I'm still tweeking the cold start though. Had a problem with my laptop and lost my stock 5.7l and 7.4l bins. Speaking of that, if anyone has either bin and would like to share it woul be much appreciated. Let me know your plans and if needs be, I can tweek the bin before sending it. Ski flozano at twistedandes.com wrote: Hello I have an Small Block 400 from a Chevy Caprice 74, and I want to install a TBI system. anyone made same convertion? wich injectors? 5.7 or 7.4? I have a 747 ECU, anyone have a custom .bin forthis engine? Thanks Facundo _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2?/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. From dirtrider218 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 28 15:16:14 2006 From: dirtrider218 at hotmail.com (John Smith1882) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:16:14 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: Nissan KA24E ECU and CAS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1. Do you know that for sure? 2. n/a 3. I know all about the sensor except what the conditioning circuit does. Does it just "clean up" the rounded square wave signal from the optical sensors, or something else? On the 360 slots, is there a dead space like the #1 injector window? >Date: Wed Apr 26 15:48:43 CDT 2006 >From: Tom Visel five10man at commspeed.net Subject: RE:Nissan KA24E ECU and >CAS >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >1. ECU will get all sorts of stupid without CAS. Anything from not running >at all to limp-in. >2. Don't know. >3. 360 slots, photocoupler-read, conditioning circuit inside the >distributor. From trekfan at globalco.net Fri Apr 28 21:51:57 2006 From: trekfan at globalco.net (trekfan) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:51:57 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] SB 400 TBI References: <444FDCAB.9010709@commspeed.net> <20060427222858.7oax4vl6bmok404s@www.twistedandes.com> Message-ID: <001701c66b37$e2e57660$37f70dcc@default> Try cntacting http://www.customefis.com/index.html maybe They can help John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: [Diy_efi] SB 400 TBI > Hello > > I have an Small Block 400 from a Chevy Caprice 74, and I want to install a TBI > system. > anyone made same convertion? wich injectors? 5.7 or 7.4? > I have a 747 ECU, anyone have a custom .bin forthis engine? > > Thanks > Facundo > > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi From spyro at f2s.com Sun Apr 30 15:18:16 2006 From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:18:16 +0100 Subject: [Diy_efi] Hoses... Message-ID: <44551B88.1030208@f2s.com> Hi. not EFI specific, but Im installing a larger radiator... the hose fittings are bigger by just enough that the pipes probably wont stretch over them, although the locations are the same. obviously pipes with odd sized ends are not going to come ready made for the vehicle... any good solutions? one hose is quite short, so I am concious that it its made too rigid in the process it could cause problems with engine vibration. From llemoine at gmail.com Sun Apr 30 19:58:05 2006 From: llemoine at gmail.com (Lee M. Lemoine) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:58:05 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] Hoses... In-Reply-To: <44551B88.1030208@f2s.com> References: <44551B88.1030208@f2s.com> Message-ID: You can always boil the hoses you have currently to see if they'll stretch (its a bit of a pain) and putting some dish soap on the fitting and inside the hose will usually aid in the hose getting over the fitting a little easier. The other option you have is to find a similar pipe with a neutral diameter, get a piece of steel pipe, and splice it in the middle... I've seen this done before to extend pipes with radiators moved 'forward' in the engine compartment. The other option there is that you get a small piece of pipe, and use a piece of silicone hose adapter (similar to the ones sold for intercoolers and whatnot) and use that to adapt the sizes. Just a few thoughts. Vibration shouldn't be much of an issue as long as the pipe isn't rubbing against anything. On 4/30/06, Ian Molton wrote: > > Hi. > > not EFI specific, but Im installing a larger radiator... the hose > fittings are bigger by just enough that the pipes probably wont stretch > over them, although the locations are the same. obviously pipes with odd > sized ends are not going to come ready made for the vehicle... > > any good solutions? one hose is quite short, so I am concious that it > its made too rigid in the process it could cause problems with engine > vibration. > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > -- Sincerely, Lee M. Lemoine http://www.turbochargedsoul.com/ '06 Subaru Legacy GT Limited - 250/250 AWD 5EAT '93 Chevy Cavalier Z24 Convertible - 300/330 FWD 5MT (Mclaren Turbo!)