From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Sat Jul  1 20:40:44 2006
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 20:40:44 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Adding headers to GM TBI system
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783010991FF@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Ernest Buckler
> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 4:50 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Adding headers to GM TBI system
> 
> Top reply: Steve, your good advice is made even more valuable 
> when you name Brands and give Model Numbers, as well as 
> actual addresses for specific gear.  "Ones that I like/use 
> are ......." gets you around the appearance of favoritism 
> (free advertising [:oj ), and of course others will add their 
> comments, for equal coverage.  This would help those of us 
> who must shop eBay for used equipment, to know that even if a 
> tool is not top of the line, it works well enough, etc.

I've never used any of them so I can't give a comment.  You're right,
though, that would be useful information.  If you (or anyone else) know
of or have experience with ROM emulators how about starting an article
on the twiki?

--steve


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.



From niche at iinet.net.au  Sun Jul  2 02:29:31 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 15:29:31 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] - Stirling engine forum like this one,
	recommendation  ?
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060702152233.027b8570@iinet.net.au>>

Hi chaps,

Apologies for the off topic post.

I am curious if there is a forum like this one to discuss technical detail
of demonstrator stirling engine designs - like the type that works off the
heat from your hand, I've looked around and found oddments, I guess I
am looking to find if anyone on this group can offer a recommendation ?

Am in the process of building an engine from scratch but dont have a
set of parameters such as ratio of displacer size to piston size, crank
arm throw, ratio of displacer thickness to displaced air height etc... Here
is a variant of the unit I am constructing, 1/3rd way down page:-

http://www.stirlingsouth.com/Roy/others/hastings/john_hastings.htm




Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From liberty1 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  2 09:41:04 2006
From: liberty1 at gmail.com (Bobby Yates Emory)
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:41:04 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] - Stirling engine forum like this one,
	recommendation ?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060702152233.027b8570@iinet.net.au>
References: <7.0.0.16.0.20060702152233.027b8570@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <54b6188b0607020741p2e51f4edm331ecdc28d8f0ae5@mail.gmail.com>

Mike,

These two have occasional references:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wastewatts/


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkyard_projects/


Good luck,

Bobby

On 7/2/06, Mike <niche at iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
> Hi chaps,
>
> Apologies for the off topic post.
>
> I am curious if there is a forum like this one to discuss technical detail
> of demonstrator stirling engine designs - like the type that works off the
> heat from your hand, I've looked around and found oddments, I guess I
> am looking to find if anyone on this group can offer a recommendation ?
>
> Am in the process of building an engine from scratch but dont have a
> set of parameters such as ratio of displacer size to piston size, crank
> arm throw, ratio of displacer thickness to displaced air height etc...
> Here
> is a variant of the unit I am constructing, 1/3rd way down page:-
>
> http://www.stirlingsouth.com/Roy/others/hastings/john_hastings.htm
>
>
>
>
> Regards from
>
>
> Mike
> Perth, Western Australia
> VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
> Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
> http://niche.iinet.net.au
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>



-- 
Toward freedom,

Bobby Yates Emory


From spyro at f2s.com  Mon Jul  3 14:29:53 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:29:53 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
Message-ID: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com>

Hi there.

finally dismantled the old turbo and took some pictures...

http://mnementh.co.uk/daihatsu/turbo_bearing_death/

havent got the intake end of it apart since I dont have the colossal 
pair of circlip pliers it would require.

you can see the rotor, turbine blades, oiler sleeve, and the _totally_ 
destroyed bearing race. I could find no sign of the bearing balls, they 
are simply gone. likewise, if it ever had oil seals, they are nowhere to 
be found either.

Any thoughts on how to remove the bearing race from the stem would be 
appreciated, although I dont think its do-able somehow.

At least the new (ebay!) turbo seems happy.


From niche at iinet.net.au  Mon Jul  3 14:56:37 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 03:56:37 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
In-Reply-To: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com>
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060704035332.027db100@iinet.net.au>>

At 03:29 AM 7/4/06, you wrote:
>Hi there.
>
>finally dismantled the old turbo and took some pictures...
>
>http://mnementh.co.uk/daihatsu/turbo_bearing_death/
>
>havent got the intake end of it apart since I dont have the colossal pair of circlip pliers it would require.
>
>you can see the rotor, turbine blades, oiler sleeve, and the _totally_ destroyed bearing race. I could find no sign of the bearing balls, they are simply gone. likewise, if it ever had oil seals, they are nowhere to be found either.

Is it a ball bearing turbo or a floating sleeve type ?

The bearing race on the right hand side, is it destroyed or just carbonised ?

>Any thoughts on how to remove the bearing race from the stem would be appreciated, although I dont think its do-able somehow.
>
>At least the new (ebay!) turbo seems happy.
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi


Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From geoff_h at smartchat.net.au  Mon Jul  3 16:18:29 2006
From: geoff_h at smartchat.net.au (Geoff Harrison)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 07:18:29 +1000
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>

Hi Ian. If it wont budge with a bearing puller, you could try
a nut splitter, or a good whack with a coal chisel with the race
on a hard surface in a way where it can't roll. Watch out for
shattering pieces. If you have access to a lathe and an air 
driven
grinder, grind it down to within a few mm of the shaft, and it
will fall into pieces.

I used to do similar tricks to shafts out of diesel pumps that 
had
been run dry,(don't ask) they hadn't gotten that hot though.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ian Molton" <spyro at f2s.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 5:29 AM
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...


> Hi there.
> finally dismantled the old turbo and took some pictures...
>
> http://mnementh.co.uk/daihatsu/turbo_bearing_death/
>
> havent got the intake end of it apart since I dont have the 
> colossal pair of circlip pliers it would require.
>
> you can see the rotor, turbine blades, oiler sleeve, and the 
> _totally_ destroyed bearing race. I could find no sign of the 
> bearing balls, they are simply gone. likewise, if it ever had 
> oil seals, they are nowhere to be found either.
>
> Any thoughts on how to remove the bearing race from the stem 
> would be appreciated, although I dont think its do-able 
> somehow.
>
> At least the new (ebay!) turbo seems happy.
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi 


From spyro at f2s.com  Mon Jul  3 17:06:48 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 23:06:48 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
In-Reply-To: <000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com> <000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>
Message-ID: <44A994F8.8050606@f2s.com>

Geoff Harrison wrote:
> Hi Ian. If it wont budge with a bearing puller, you could try
> a nut splitter, or a good whack with a coal chisel with the race
> on a hard surface in a way where it can't roll. Watch out for
> shattering pieces. If you have access to a lathe and an air driven
> grinder, grind it down to within a few mm of the shaft, and it
> will fall into pieces.

Ok next question is which end of the shaft it goes on... is it possible 
it goes on from the 'thin' (intake) end ?

if not, how on earth do I remove the exhaust turbine from the shaft?

I dont want to damage the central part of the shaft since the bronze 
sleeve goes on there.

What 'kind' of turbo is this anyway? I thought they were either ball 
bearing or floating sleeve - this is both?


From scott_o_matic at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  3 18:12:22 2006
From: scott_o_matic at yahoo.com (Scott Scott)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Interpreting ALDL data
Message-ID: <20060703231222.94816.qmail@web36604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone. I just managed to get winALDL
connected and operating. Problem is, I'm not entirely
sure what all these numbers mean! Does anyone know
where I can examine a set of "typical" numbers? I know
there will be a big variance based on all the
variables, but if I'm waaaay off on some number it
should stand out. 
Specifically, I'm seeing a TPS number at about 98%
when the car is idling. I would have thought this
would have been a low %, figuring it means % of WOT.
But knowing some kind of baseline for all the other
numbers would also be helpful. 

The "low battery (IAC inhibited) code is also thrown.
I think my vehicle ignition switch sends only 11 volts
instead of 12. Can anyone tell me what the effects of
an "inhibited" IAC are? I have ahd some problems with
the car stalling once its idling at operating
temperature. 

Sorry to be such a newbie--there is an incredible
learning curve with all of this data! 




-- TWikiGuest - 03 Jul 2006


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From airhawk at hawkgt.net  Mon Jul  3 22:50:51 2006
From: airhawk at hawkgt.net (The AirHawk)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 22:50:51 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com> <000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>
	<44A994F8.8050606@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c69f1d$0c65bd60$0302a8c0@MajorDisaster>

> Ok next question is which end of the shaft it goes on... is it possible it goes on from the 'thin' 
> (intake) end ?

Yes. The turbine is Inconel or some other hard-as-hell metal that was friction-welded to the shaft. 
Don't attempt to remove it, and do what you can to NOT flex any of the blades. One chip, and you 
might as well toss it to the scrapper.

> if not, how on earth do I remove the exhaust turbine from the shaft?
>
> I dont want to damage the central part of the shaft since the bronze sleeve goes on there.

As someone pointed out - remove the bronze sleeve, then a bit of judicious grinding on that bearing 
race will cause it  to come apart. Don't worry about damaging the race, it's trash. If you're good 
with a bluetip wrench, it will be quite easy to remove it. I'd say the shaft is likely quite nearly 
as hard as the bearing race, the wheel is probably harder (and an order of magnitude more brittle).

Go Gently with any hammers or vises around that wheel.

> What 'kind' of turbo is this anyway? I thought they were either ball bearing or floating sleeve - 
> this is both?

I don't know - exactly what *is* the turbo? Garrett? Mitsu? Hybrid?

Likely the ball-bearings went the way of the exhaust.

Re-assembly *probably* goes something like this: Turbine Wheel, seal, press-fit bearing, sleeve; 
assemble into cartridge with care not to bind bearing and/or damage seal; compressor-end bearing, 
seal, thrust washer (if any req.), compressor, locking nut; torque to spec.

That is a *VERY* general description of the likely re-assembly for this turbo. I strongly urge you 
to seek more information from the manufacturer. A backyard rebuild is possible, and has a 
high-probability of success if undertaken with the full knowledge of WHAT you are attempting.

Clean, clean, clean. That is the word of the day, should you decide to attempt your own re-man.

-Scott Creech 




From spyro at f2s.com  Tue Jul  4 08:11:25 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 14:11:25 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
In-Reply-To: <003b01c69f1d$0c65bd60$0302a8c0@MajorDisaster>
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com>
	<000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>	<44A994F8.8050606@f2s.com>
	<003b01c69f1d$0c65bd60$0302a8c0@MajorDisaster>
Message-ID: <44AA68FD.2000506@f2s.com>

The AirHawk wrote:

> Yes. The turbine is Inconel or some other hard-as-hell metal that was 
> friction-welded to the shaft. Don't attempt to remove it, and do what 
> you can to NOT flex any of the blades. One chip, and you might as well 
> toss it to the scrapper.

the blades are all true-looking. the very tips at the widest part have 
some /very/ tiny chips (fraction of a millimeter sized). Should I worry?

> As someone pointed out - remove the bronze sleeve, then a bit of 
> judicious grinding on that bearing race will cause it  to come apart. 
> Don't worry about damaging the race, it's trash.

Will try that.

>> What 'kind' of turbo is this anyway? I thought they were either ball 
>> bearing or floating sleeve - this is both?
> 
> I don't know - exactly what *is* the turbo? Garrett? Mitsu? Hybrid?

'AISIN'. Im told the turbo was application specific for the CL-61 engine 
*only*.

> Clean, clean, clean. That is the word of the day, should you decide to 
> attempt your own re-man.

I've heard a lot of what I think is probably snake-oil from turbo recon 
people who tend to claim the whole thing needs special balancing.

It seems to me that the balancing has been done by grinding the inner 
face of the ehaust turbine and the outer 'nub' on the end of the shaft - 
neither of which is adjustable in any real sense, so my thought is that 
the shaft/turbines are balanced and pretty much anything else is just 
careful assembly.

bfn!


From niche at iinet.net.au  Tue Jul  4 08:30:13 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 21:30:13 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
In-Reply-To: <44AA68FD.2000506@f2s.com>
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com> <000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>
	<44A994F8.8050606@f2s.com>
	<003b01c69f1d$0c65bd60$0302a8c0@MajorDisaster>
	<44AA68FD.2000506@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060704211907.027e99c0@iinet.net.au>>

At 09:11 PM 7/4/06, you wrote:
>I've heard a lot of what I think is probably snake-oil from turbo recon people who tend to claim the whole thing needs special balancing.

It *is* correct, these things spin at rather high rates, 80,000 to 120,000 rpm
and really do need to be balanced after re-assembly or they will howl and
can oscillate and effectively explode at high revs but not necessarily straight
away - it depends how long, what load etc. Proper balancing will ensure it
lasts the full service life, pot luck with no balancing and only assembly
means you could be anywhere in terms of dynamics and that means it
can fail at any time and probability suggests it will not reach a fraction
of its service life if you expect it to provide any power and that means
high revs...

Note: Even if you reassemble carefully you still must get it balanced.
Minor variations in static balance due to nonhomogenous material
densities *anywhere* mean that rotating the assembly by a few degrees
without changing anything else *will* change dynamic balance drastically !

Static balance might just be ok to around 5000rpms *but* any speed
even 10% of max revs really does need dynamic balancing, if I recall
correctly there is a 3rd or 4th order exponent involved - so its absolutely
essential... ie Not snake oil at all.

Rgds

mike






>It seems to me that the balancing has been done by grinding the inner face of the ehaust turbine and the outer 'nub' on the end of the shaft - neither of which is adjustable in any real sense, so my thought is that the shaft/turbines are balanced and pretty much anything else is just careful assembly.
>
>bfn!
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi


From scott_o_matic at yahoo.com  Tue Jul  4 09:49:38 2006
From: scott_o_matic at yahoo.com (Scott Scott)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 07:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Interpreting ALDL data
In-Reply-To: <20060703231222.94816.qmail@web36604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060704144938.20180.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The "Low Battery" flag turned off when cruising the
car, so I dont think this one is a problem. 

I've been crunching the data stream numbers in excel
and they actually look fairly decent.  For some reason
the O2 sensor spits out a .004 every now and
then--sometimes 4 or 5 of those readings in a row.  Is
it a defective sensor?  


--- Scott Scott <scott_o_matic at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello everyone. I just managed to get winALDL
> connected and operating. Problem is, I'm not
> entirely
> sure what all these numbers mean! Does anyone know
> where I can examine a set of "typical" numbers? I
> know
> there will be a big variance based on all the
> variables, but if I'm waaaay off on some number it
> should stand out. 
> Specifically, I'm seeing a TPS number at about 98%
> when the car is idling. I would have thought this
> would have been a low %, figuring it means % of WOT.
> But knowing some kind of baseline for all the other
> numbers would also be helpful. 
> 
> The "low battery (IAC inhibited) code is also
> thrown.
> I think my vehicle ignition switch sends only 11
> volts
> instead of 12. Can anyone tell me what the effects
> of
> an "inhibited" IAC are? I have ahd some problems
> with
> the car stalling once its idling at operating
> temperature. 
> 
> Sorry to be such a newbie--there is an incredible
> learning curve with all of this data! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- TWikiGuest - 03 Jul 2006
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From spyro at f2s.com  Tue Jul  4 10:41:09 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:41:09 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060704211907.027e99c0@iinet.net.au>>
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com>
	<000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>	<44A994F8.8050606@f2s.com>	<003b01c69f1d$0c65bd60$0302a8c0@MajorDisaster>	<44AA68FD.2000506@f2s.com>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060704211907.027e99c0@iinet.net.au>>
Message-ID: <44AA8C15.7070609@f2s.com>

Mike wrote:
> At 09:11 PM 7/4/06, you wrote:
> 
>>I've heard a lot of what I think is probably snake-oil from turbo recon people who tend to claim the whole thing needs special balancing.
> 
> 
> It *is* correct, these things spin at rather high rates, 80,000 to 120,000 rpm
> and really do need to be balanced after re-assembly or they will howl and
> can oscillate and effectively explode at high revs but not necessarily straight
> away - it depends how long, what load etc.

Aha, you sound like someone who actually knows about this from experience :)

this is a _very_ tiny turbo, just a 3cm compressor wheel (and the 
turbine is smaller still!)

it does howl very strongly, and always has (the new one is a little 
quieter but not much). I know many do spin at 80,000+ RPM but this one 
doesnt *sound* like its anywhere close to that - the pitch of the thing 
is perhaps around middle-C to an octave higher or so. (of course, this 
could be a harmonic or something)

> Proper balancing will ensure it
> lasts the full service life, pot luck with no balancing and only assembly
> means you could be anywhere in terms of dynamics and that means it
> can fail at any time and probability suggests it will not reach a fraction
> of its service life if you expect it to provide any power and that means
> high revs...

how is the post assembly balancing done? One thing that puzzles me is 
that the compressor is onlyheld on by a tiny little nut. no spline or 
anything, so I'd have thought theres a chance it could slip slightly 
anyway, which would ruin any balancing done on it.

> Note: Even if you reassemble carefully you still must get it balanced.

Question there is 'how' ?

> Static balance might just be ok to around 5000rpms

engine RPMs or turbo? because if thats the case, Im never gonna get that 
high anyway :)


From spyro at f2s.com  Tue Jul  4 10:42:14 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 16:42:14 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] Interpreting ALDL data
In-Reply-To: <20060704144938.20180.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060704144938.20180.qmail@web36611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44AA8C56.4090908@f2s.com>

Scott Scott wrote:

> I've been crunching the data stream numbers in excel
> and they actually look fairly decent.  For some reason
> the O2 sensor spits out a .004 every now and
> then--sometimes 4 or 5 of those readings in a row.  Is
> it a defective sensor?  

I would have thought more likely a poor contact, but I know nothing 
about O2 sensors.


From niche at iinet.net.au  Tue Jul  4 12:08:01 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 01:08:01 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
In-Reply-To: <44AA8C15.7070609@f2s.com>
References: <44A97031.4050004@f2s.com> <000b01c69ee6$3ba825e0$6500a8c0@fred>
	<44A994F8.8050606@f2s.com>
	<003b01c69f1d$0c65bd60$0302a8c0@MajorDisaster>
	<44AA68FD.2000506@f2s.com>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060704211907.027e99c0@iinet.net.au>
	<44AA8C15.7070609@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060705005009.027e2ad0@iinet.net.au>>

At 11:41 PM 7/4/06, you wrote:
>>It *is* correct, these things spin at rather high rates, 80,000 to 120,000 rpm
>>and really do need to be balanced after re-assembly or they will howl and
>>can oscillate and effectively explode at high revs but not necessarily straight
>>away - it depends how long, what load etc.
>
>Aha, you sound like someone who actually knows about this from experience :)

Currently driving a 3L Nissan engine with turbo, taken a few apart after various failures,
plus know of two people in last 10 years who skipped balancing !, plus seen many on various
user groups and visited two turbo service shops, plus few mechanics and
collection of  anecdotes for last 20 years or so...

>this is a _very_ tiny turbo, just a 3cm compressor wheel (and the turbine is smaller still!)

In that case, to develop much boost it would need to turn somewhat faster, maybe 170,000 to 200,000 rpms

>it does howl very strongly, and always has (the new one is a little quieter but not much). I know many do spin at 80,000+ RPM but this one doesnt *sound* like its anywhere close to that - the pitch of the thing is perhaps around middle-C to an octave higher or so. (of course, this could be a harmonic or something)

Ear cant discriminate anything useful beyond about 16,000 rpm, at that rate
for a small turbo it wouldnt develop much boost, what you are likely hearing
is low order oscillations, resonant cavity either inlet or exhaust but certainly not
anything near turbo spin rate !  Much like the F1 motors, when they spin at 19,000rpm,
you dont hear the motors at all, you hear the gearboxes and the layshafts etc etc

>>Proper balancing will ensure it
>>lasts the full service life, pot luck with no balancing and only assembly
>>means you could be anywhere in terms of dynamics and that means it
>>can fail at any time and probability suggests it will not reach a fraction
>>of its service life if you expect it to provide any power and that means
>>high revs...
>
>how is the post assembly balancing done? One thing that puzzles me is that the compressor is onlyheld on by a tiny little nut. no spline or anything, so I'd have thought theres a chance it could slip slightly anyway, which would ruin any balancing done on it.

When I had my turbo reconditioned it had a new and larger compressor wheel
added, these are already balanced at factory, so that part is removed from the equation
(mostly), the nut and its position on the shaft shouldnt vary much. The machine
is fairly sophisticated, they call them a "VST" over here,  spot magnetisation of a turbine blade
and visual mark along with vibration sensor - oh and source of compressed air to spin the blighters
up to anything up to 200,000 rpms... plus the necessary oil feed.

Note: Turbine (exhaust) is friction welded to shaft, more sensible to pre-balance
inlet side at factory as well as trim on the nut(s) when placed on the balancer.

>>Note: Even if you reassemble carefully you still must get it balanced.
>
>Question there is 'how' ?

Specialist shops do it, ring around for best price,  if in USA expect it to be much cheaper
than in Australia where we have a bit of a closed shop, ie Price collusion. Shouldnt
take more than an hour to do it properly but then you pay for machine amortisation,
see if you can include yourself observing process as interested academic in price ;-)
Last cost here (2004) for full turbo service, larger comp wheel and balancing was AUD$700.

Others can comment on the USA prices,

>>Static balance might just be ok to around 5000rpms
>
>engine RPMs or turbo? because if thats the case, Im never gonna get that high anyway :)

Turbo rpms, I was just using that as a low end useless figure which wont give you any
boost but then its pointless, sorry I was being tangential. In effect I was saying that if
you dont dynamically balance the turbo its probably only usable up to 5000 rpms, which
isnt nearly fast enough, especially if its small, to develop any boost... In other words
get it dynamically balanced. Consider that dynamically balancing a crank makes it work
more smoothly when balanced to 5000 rpms - and here you want to run a turbo at
around 120,000 or even 170,000 for a small one and wont get it balanced, trust you see the irony...



Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From WSCowell at aol.com  Tue Jul  4 13:13:05 2006
From: WSCowell at aol.com (WSCowell at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 14:13:05 EDT
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
Message-ID: <52c.28af689.31dc09b1@aol.com>

In a message dated 04/07/2006 18:10:06 GMT Standard Time,  niche at iinet.net.au 
writes:  
Ear cant  discriminate anything useful beyond about 16,000 rpm, at that rate
for a  small turbo it wouldnt develop much boost, what you are likely hearing
is  low order oscillations, resonant cavity either inlet or exhaust but 
certainly  not
anything near turbo spin rate !  Much like the F1 motors, when  they spin at 
19,000rpm,
you dont hear the motors at all, you hear the  gearboxes and the layshafts 
etc etc





Mike, I'm puzzled.  You may be right about the real noise coming from  the 
gearbox etc, although having been close to "only" F3000 engines I don't  believe 
you're correct.  Where I want to query what you say is the maths  about what 
the human ear can hear.
 
A V8 turning at 19000rpm experiences 4 firing pulses every rotation,  
therefore 4*19000/60 pulses every second = about 1300 Hz.  This is well  within the 
human ear's response, wouldn't you agree?  :-)
 
I accept of course that it's not strictly relevant to the turbo rebuild  
theme, being 5 to 10 times slower than a turbo spins at.....
 
Will
Cambridge, UK


From niche at iinet.net.au  Tue Jul  4 22:07:12 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 11:07:12 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] some pictures...
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060705110710.02803d10@iinet.net.au>>

ooooppps you are quite right, I was so hung up on turbine
squeal I didnt check my numbers, guh my bad

rgds

mike


At 02:13 AM 7/5/06, you wrote:
>In a message dated 04/07/2006 18:10:06 GMT Standard Time,  niche at iinet.net.au 
>writes:  
>Ear cant  discriminate anything useful beyond about 16,000 rpm, at that rate
>for a  small turbo it wouldnt develop much boost, what you are likely hearing
>is  low order oscillations, resonant cavity either inlet or exhaust but 
>certainly  not
>anything near turbo spin rate !  Much like the F1 motors, when  they spin at 
>19,000rpm,
>you dont hear the motors at all, you hear the  gearboxes and the layshafts 
>etc etc
>
>
>
>
>
>Mike, I'm puzzled.  You may be right about the real noise coming from  the 
>gearbox etc, although having been close to "only" F3000 engines I don't  believe 
>you're correct.  Where I want to query what you say is the maths  about what 
>the human ear can hear.
> 
>A V8 turning at 19000rpm experiences 4 firing pulses every rotation,  
>therefore 4*19000/60 pulses every second = about 1300 Hz.  This is well  within the 
>human ear's response, wouldn't you agree?  :-)
> 
>I accept of course that it's not strictly relevant to the turbo rebuild  
>theme, being 5 to 10 times slower than a turbo spins at.....
> 
>Will
>Cambridge, UK
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi


Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From bill.washington at nec.com.au  Wed Jul  5 00:29:10 2006
From: bill.washington at nec.com.au (Bill Washington)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 15:29:10 +1000
Subject: [Diy_efi] turbo
In-Reply-To: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au>
References: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au>
Message-ID: <44AB4E26.9010203@nec.com.au>

Ian,
    The Bearing balls could have ended up in your sump ..... have you 
checked there? or in the oil return line...

Bill

>
> Subject:
> [Diy_efi] some pictures...
> From:
> Ian Molton <spyro at f2s.com>
> Date:
> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:29:53 +0100
> To:
> diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> To:
> diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
>
> Hi there.
>
> finally dismantled the old turbo and took some pictures...
>
> http://mnementh.co.uk/daihatsu/turbo_bearing_death/
>
> havent got the intake end of it apart since I dont have the colossal 
> pair of circlip pliers it would require.
>
> you can see the rotor, turbine blades, oiler sleeve, and the _totally_ 
> destroyed bearing race. I could find no sign of the bearing balls, 
> they are simply gone. likewise, if it ever had oil seals, they are 
> nowhere to be found either.
>
> Any thoughts on how to remove the bearing race from the stem would be 
> appreciated, although I dont think its do-able somehow.
>
> At least the new (ebay!) turbo seems happy.
>
>://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>  
>


From bill.washington at nec.com.au  Wed Jul  5 01:34:30 2006
From: bill.washington at nec.com.au (Bill Washington)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 16:34:30 +1000
Subject: [Diy_efi] turbo
In-Reply-To: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au>
References: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au>
Message-ID: <44AB5D76.9030702@nec.com.au>

Ian,
    The Bearing balls could have ended up in your sump ..... have you 
checked there? or in the oil return line...

Bill

>
> Subject:
> [Diy_efi] some pictures...
> From:
> Ian Molton <spyro at f2s.com>
> Date:
> Mon, 03 Jul 2006 20:29:53 +0100
> To:
> diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> To:
> diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
>
> Hi there.
>
> finally dismantled the old turbo and took some pictures...
>
> http://mnementh.co.uk/daihatsu/turbo_bearing_death/
>
> havent got the intake end of it apart since I dont have the colossal 
> pair of circlip pliers it would require.
>
> you can see the rotor, turbine blades, oiler sleeve, and the _totally_ 
> destroyed bearing race. I could find no sign of the bearing balls, 
> they are simply gone. likewise, if it ever had oil seals, they are 
> nowhere to be found either.
>
> Any thoughts on how to remove the bearing race from the stem would be 
> appreciated, although I dont think its do-able somehow.
>
> At least the new (ebay!) turbo seems happy.
>
>://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>  
>


From spyro at f2s.com  Wed Jul  5 09:51:21 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 15:51:21 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] turbo
In-Reply-To: <44AB5D76.9030702@nec.com.au>
References: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au>
	<44AB5D76.9030702@nec.com.au>
Message-ID: <44ABD1E9.2010702@f2s.com>

Bill Washington wrote:
> Ian,
>    The Bearing balls could have ended up in your sump ..... have you 
> checked there? or in the oil return line...

I havent - the car isnt worth enough to make doing a complete engine 
rebuild economical. This was a speculative rebuild in the hope that it 
would work without a big cash injection. If they're inthe return line, 
they must be glued in :-) (the line is huge, like 10mm dia., and about 
8cm long).

I imagine by now if they were in the sump, they will probably have found 
their way into the oil filter :-)

Either way, its running again, and I put a nice guage on the turbo line 
so I can watch the oil pressure.

I'll change the filter next oil change and I'll filter the sump oil to 
see if anything turns up. should be safe enough I recon.

On another note, the 280 project is comming along. more pictures on my 
page (http://www.mnementh.co.uk/datsun/) showing the drivers door being 
stripped for repair / painting. only two dings in it, neither serious.

What I would like to know is how to handle 'pitting'. I can see that 
unless its done right, its going to be a nightmare, rusting under the 
paint. my strategy right now is to take it back using a steel brush in a 
drill and sandpapering the surface afterwards. then filling any 
uneven-ness from deep pits.


From stewpididiot at gmail.com  Wed Jul  5 14:53:26 2006
From: stewpididiot at gmail.com (Stew Pididiot)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:53:26 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle
Message-ID: <c326226c0607051253q630b72d5w74e1e5ae889e9c99@mail.gmail.com>

I have a new TBI application on an old bronco with a 302 in it.  The vehicle
runs well most of the time, but sometimes will stall at idle.  The stalling
seems to occur after periods of start & stop street driving involving low
(<50 mph) speeds. It runs well at highway speeds, and idles nicely after
freeway runs.

I've noticed that the engine has a high pitched whistling sound at idle.  I
say "whistling" because it sounds like air, not a mechancal sound.  The
whistle will go away if I jsut rest my foot on the gas.

I'm guessing that there is some carbon or other debris in the IAC such that
in certain modes (e.g. closed) its motion blocked by the debris.  Could this
be the source of both the stalling and the whistling?  If so, what is the
best method for cleaning it?  It looks like it requires a specialized too to
remove it, is there another way to safely remove it for cleaning?


From scoutii76 at hotmail.com  Wed Jul  5 15:00:17 2006
From: scoutii76 at hotmail.com (Bill USN-1)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 22:00:17 +0200
Subject: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle
In-Reply-To: <c326226c0607051253q630b72d5w74e1e5ae889e9c99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV10039353E9D9D464A5EF46B0760@phx.gbl>

I would assume you did not install the VSS when you did the conversion.
This can cause some of your stalling issues.

You may also want to open the throttle plate up a little more to get the IAC
counts down. This may help with your whistling.

Can you log data?
Are you running a stock GM chip or did you have one burned for your
application?

Bill
USN-1


-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Stew Pididiot
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:53 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle

I have a new TBI application on an old bronco with a 302 in it.  The vehicle
runs well most of the time, but sometimes will stall at idle.  The stalling
seems to occur after periods of start & stop street driving involving low
(<50 mph) speeds. It runs well at highway speeds, and idles nicely after
freeway runs.

I've noticed that the engine has a high pitched whistling sound at idle.  I
say "whistling" because it sounds like air, not a mechancal sound.  The
whistle will go away if I jsut rest my foot on the gas.

I'm guessing that there is some carbon or other debris in the IAC such that
in certain modes (e.g. closed) its motion blocked by the debris.  Could this
be the source of both the stalling and the whistling?  If so, what is the
best method for cleaning it?  It looks like it requires a specialized too to
remove it, is there another way to safely remove it for cleaning?
_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi


From torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu  Wed Jul  5 15:17:54 2006
From: torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F6rn_Forsman?=)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:17:54 +0200
Subject: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle
In-Reply-To: <c326226c0607051253q630b72d5w74e1e5ae889e9c99@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c326226c0607051253q630b72d5w74e1e5ae889e9c99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44AC1E72.7010406@gengas.nu>

Is it a GM (Rochester) TBI unit you are using? On those, the IAC usually 
  is flange mounted to the TBI housing and secured by two torx screws.
Don't try to disassemble the IAC unless you have plenty of them laying 
around and can sacrifice one or another.

Best regards

Torbj?rn Forsman


Stew Pididiot wrote:
> I have a new TBI application on an old bronco with a 302 in it.  The 
> vehicle
> runs well most of the time, but sometimes will stall at idle.  The stalling
> seems to occur after periods of start & stop street driving involving low
> (<50 mph) speeds. It runs well at highway speeds, and idles nicely after
> freeway runs.
> 
> I've noticed that the engine has a high pitched whistling sound at idle.  I
> say "whistling" because it sounds like air, not a mechancal sound.  The
> whistle will go away if I jsut rest my foot on the gas.
> 
> I'm guessing that there is some carbon or other debris in the IAC such that
> in certain modes (e.g. closed) its motion blocked by the debris.  Could 
> this
> be the source of both the stalling and the whistling?  If so, what is the
> best method for cleaning it?  It looks like it requires a specialized 
> too to
> remove it, is there another way to safely remove it for cleaning?
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> 



From miloszk at gmail.com  Wed Jul  5 17:00:59 2006
From: miloszk at gmail.com (Milosz Kardasinski)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:00:59 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle
References: <c326226c0607051253q630b72d5w74e1e5ae889e9c99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c6a07e$80d453c0$6801a8c0@goat>

The whistling is caused by the iac bypass air. It comes from the fact that
your iac is
bypassing lots of air which in turn is approaching super sonic speeds. You
shouldn't have
whistling at idle when your motor is at operating temp. If you do then you
need to
open your throttle plate more. Some whistling is allowed when the motor is
cold
but once your up to temperature you should adjust your throttle plate so
that it goes
away.

This assumes that you don't have one of those throttle body spacers
installed if you do
9 out of 10 the whistle is caused by the TBI spacer.

Goat

----- Original Message -----
>
> I've noticed that the engine has a high pitched whistling sound at idle.
I
> say "whistling" because it sounds like air, not a mechancal sound.  The
> whistle will go away if I jsut rest my foot on the gas.




From stewpididiot at gmail.com  Wed Jul  5 17:22:09 2006
From: stewpididiot at gmail.com (Stew Pididiot)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 15:22:09 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle
In-Reply-To: <001101c6a07e$80d453c0$6801a8c0@goat>
Message-ID: <000001c6a081$755e7db0$236fa8c0@berryblock.local>

Thanks for the info.  There is an adapter plate on the car between the TBI
and the intake, which would probably have the same effect as a spacer--so
maybe that is the cause.  

Is there a way to adjust the throttle plate other than by tweaking the idle
screw?  



-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Milosz Kardasinski
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 3:01 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle

The whistling is caused by the iac bypass air. It comes from the fact that
your iac is
bypassing lots of air which in turn is approaching super sonic speeds. You
shouldn't have
whistling at idle when your motor is at operating temp. If you do then you
need to
open your throttle plate more. Some whistling is allowed when the motor is
cold
but once your up to temperature you should adjust your throttle plate so
that it goes
away.

This assumes that you don't have one of those throttle body spacers
installed if you do
9 out of 10 the whistle is caused by the TBI spacer.

Goat

----- Original Message -----
>
> I've noticed that the engine has a high pitched whistling sound at idle.
I
> say "whistling" because it sounds like air, not a mechancal sound.  The
> whistle will go away if I jsut rest my foot on the gas.


_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi



From airhawk at hawkgt.net  Wed Jul  5 18:50:53 2006
From: airhawk at hawkgt.net (The AirHawk)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 18:50:53 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] turbo
References: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au><44AB5D76.9030702@nec.com.au>
	<44ABD1E9.2010702@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c6a08d$e16df330$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster>

> I imagine by now if they were in the sump, they will probably have found their way into the oil 
> filter :-)

Probably not, you'd know it almost certain. Gotta pass through the oil pump to get to the filter. If 
you're lucky, they're "gone with the wind" down the exhaust pipe, or sitting around the drainplug, 
waiting to go out with the next oil change.

-Scott C. 




From niche at iinet.net.au  Thu Jul  6 00:44:07 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 13:44:07 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] turbo
In-Reply-To: <000e01c6a08d$e16df330$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster>
References: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au>
	<44AB5D76.9030702@nec.com.au> <44ABD1E9.2010702@f2s.com>
	<000e01c6a08d$e16df330$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060706133927.027e3a80@iinet.net.au>>

At 07:50 AM 7/6/06, you wrote:
>>I imagine by now if they were in the sump, they will probably have found their way into the oil filter :-)
>
>Probably not, you'd know it almost certain. Gotta pass through the oil pump to get to the filter. If you're lucky, they're "gone with the wind" down the exhaust pipe, or sitting around the drainplug, waiting to go out with the next oil change.

The feed to the oil filter on the Nissan 3L RB30 motor has a fairly fine steel
mesh, the holes in the mesh appear to be just under 1mm dia.

When I first took my sump off, to inspect/change a few big end bearings, I
found the mesh covered in bits of sump cork gasket remnants effectively
occluding the flow. Whilst I had the sump out I drilled a 30mm hole directly
under the oil pickup mesh and put a large plug in, so next time I can check
there isnt anything else jamming there and take it out without going through
the tortuous procedure of jacking up engine in body to get sump off...

So its possible there is a mesh filter on your oil pickup and if the engine
hasnt had the sump off for a long time, I'd check the mesh hasnt got crud
built up in it plus the odd bearing splinter too,



Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From spyro at f2s.com  Thu Jul  6 04:39:11 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 10:39:11 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] turbo
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060706133927.027e3a80@iinet.net.au>>
References: <20060704154209.2EB2C37754@ns1.nec.com.au>	<44AB5D76.9030702@nec.com.au>
	<44ABD1E9.2010702@f2s.com>	<000e01c6a08d$e16df330$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060706133927.027e3a80@iinet.net.au>>
Message-ID: <44ACDA3F.6090103@f2s.com>

Mike wrote:
> At 07:50 AM 7/6/06, you wrote:
> 
> So its possible there is a mesh filter on your oil pickup and if the engine
> hasnt had the sump off for a long time, I'd check the mesh hasnt got crud
> built up in it plus the odd bearing splinter too,

If I ever rebuild this motor then I'll check :)

seriously though, on a 300ukp _car_ its just not worth it, especially as 
I havent got a garage or engine hoist :-)

Isnt a 30mm drain plug kinda prone to damage? whats it made of ?


From miloszk at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 16:03:38 2006
From: miloszk at gmail.com (Milosz Kardasinski)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:03:38 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] IAC whistles at idle
References: <000001c6a081$755e7db0$236fa8c0@berryblock.local>
Message-ID: <000801c6a13f$a863eb50$6801a8c0@goat>

Not to my knowledge.

Goat
----- Original Message -----
>
> Is there a way to adjust the throttle plate other than by tweaking the
idle
> screw?



From red93formula at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  7 12:17:52 2006
From: red93formula at hotmail.com (93 Formula)
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:17:52 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Looking for original Program for 93 F-Body Chip
Message-ID: <BAY101-F7111B0D807D476A8E7BAFD8740@phx.gbl>

My computer crashed and I lost all my bins.  I'd like to atleast get the 
original bin that came with my car which was like bdzl, and than I bought a 
second chip and it was bndx or something like that. its a 93 Firebird 
formula, (A4)
If someone could email them, I'd appreciate it.
My car is stuck in limp mode, and I want to reprogram a chip as original 
just to make sure it isn't the chip that I just ran through vemaster.

Jeff  http://FindFastCars.com 93 Formula
Mods: 355 forged for NOS, LT4 HotTop, 58TB, SLP Cnvrtr, 3.73s, 
Mufflex/Spintech 4" exhaust, Hooker LTs, 300+ Ign, Injctrs, MSD Adj Win Sw & 
3 Ign Ret, K&N CAI, Diacom, CATSTuner...




From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jul 11 11:48:35 2006
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] test, don't reply
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783010D5DFA@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

there may be a few more of these

-------------------
Steve Ravet
ARM
steve.ravet at arm.com

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.



From jimbutterfield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 13:13:41 2006
From: jimbutterfield at yahoo.com (Jim Butterfield)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:13:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
Message-ID: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump fuel and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that our 3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It wil reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we get form the supercharger... the question comes up 
   
  If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the tank for race purposes, does it give you  an advantage, or are you waisting your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the advantage of reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and therefore a more power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
   
  jim

 __________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From red93formula at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 11 13:25:05 2006
From: red93formula at hotmail.com (93 Formula)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:25:05 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
Message-ID: <BAY101-F758F8D1ED209265E27987D8680@phx.gbl>


>From: "93 Formula" <red93formula at hotmail.com>
>To: lockitup at bright.net, fourth-gen at lists.f-body.org
>CC: ne-f-body at lists.f-body.org
>Subject: FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:22:46 -0400
>
>>Dal's email address is lockitup at bright.net.
>>http://lists.f-body.org/mailman/listinfo/fourth-gen
>
>The original part # was 16159278  and replacement # is apparently 88999183
>
>This is for a 93 Formula (A4 car)
>
>Can you get this part ?  or direct me to someone who can?
>
>My mechanic was unable to find the part.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff  http://FindFastCars.com 93 Formula
>Mods: 355 forged for NOS, LT4 HotTop, 58TB, SLP Cnvrtr, 3.73s, 
>Mufflex/Spintech 4" exhaust, Hooker LTs, 300+ Ign, Injctrs, MSD Adj Win Sw 
>& 3 Ign Ret, K&N CAI, Diacom, CATSTuner...
>
>




From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jul 11 13:58:09 2006
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:58:09 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783010D5E6E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

Try www.car-part.com

--steve

> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of 93 Formula
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:25 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Diy_efi] FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
> 
> 

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.



From niche at iinet.net.au  Tue Jul 11 14:04:21 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 03:04:21 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060712030049.026ab090@iinet.net.au>>

fwiw:
Over here in Perth, Western Australia it appears that the PULP does
also have a little more energy than ULP, on long country trips I get about
8-10% better mileage and even a little better if I lean it out as well,
the higher octane of PULP does allow me a little more boost as well,
but in the city its just not worth it...

At 02:13 AM 7/12/06, you wrote:
>Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump fuel and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that our 3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It wil reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we get form the supercharger... the question comes up 
>   
>  If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the tank for race purposes, does it give you  an advantage, or are you waisting your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the advantage of reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and therefore a more power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
>   
>  jim
>
> __________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
>http://mail.yahoo.com 
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi


From weinstro at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 11 14:14:02 2006
From: weinstro at hotmail.com (Rob Weinstock)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:14:02 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F45A375FBE3AC5A4AAE6DDC0680@phx.gbl>

>Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal 
>combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are 
>discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump fuel 
>and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that our 
>3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from 
>compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It wil 
>reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we get 
>form the supercharger... the question comes up
>
>   If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the 
>tank for race purposes, does it give you  an advantage, or are you waisting 
>your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the advantage of 
>reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and therefore a more 
>power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
>

The higher octane fuel allows you to run higher compression, more boost, and 
more spark advance without detonation issues. If two fuels can run under 
these same conditions without detonation, than you are wasting money on the 
higher octane fuel. You could be worse off in fact, since lower octane fuels 
tend to contain a bit more specific energy.

Regards,

Rob




>   jim
>
>  __________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi




From rfrey at iupui.edu  Tue Jul 11 14:26:43 2006
From: rfrey at iupui.edu (Frey, Richard K)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:26:43 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0C323EFBDBDBDD4697BD0C0F2D745C5245F2EA@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu>

Agreed, in the absence of some tuning, higher compression, more advance
or more boost, leaner mixture, the race fuel will be a waste of money.
Further, when you step in the realm of leaded race fuels, you catalytic
converter is at risk as well as your O2 sensor.

rick frey

-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Jim Butterfield
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:14 PM
To: efi list
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas

Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal
combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are
discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump
fuel and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that
our 3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from
compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It
wil reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we
get form the supercharger... the question comes up 
   
  If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the
tank for race purposes, does it give you  an advantage, or are you
waisting your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the
advantage of reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and
therefore a more power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
   
  jim

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi


From red93formula at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 11 14:26:40 2006
From: red93formula at hotmail.com (93 Formula)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:26:40 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
In-Reply-To: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C7434140611783010D5E6E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F25C04DE626B51E338ECB49D8680@phx.gbl>

>From: "Steve Ravet" <Steve.Ravet at arm.com>

>Try www.car-part.com
>
Thanks steve - good link - one place had one and sold it yesterday. DOH!

Jeff  http://FindFastCars.com 93 Formula
Mods: 355 forged for NOS, LT4 HotTop, 58TB, SLP Cnvrtr, 3.73s, 
Mufflex/Spintech 4" exhaust, Hooker LTs, 300+ Ign, Injctrs, MSD Adj Win Sw & 
3 Ign Ret, K&N CAI, Diacom, CATSTuner...




From wopontour at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 11 14:36:20 2006
From: wopontour at hotmail.com (WopOnTour)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:36:20 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
References: <BAY101-F758F8D1ED209265E27987D8680@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY19-DAV868AD35F04E92FC7A8FD4BA680@phx.gbl>

AC Delco still shows PN 88999183 as a valid ECM part number (Remanufactured)
Did you try any larger AC Delco distributors? The certainly should be able 
to order it
HTH
WopOnTour
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "93 Formula" <red93formula at hotmail.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:25 PM
Subject: [Diy_efi] FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird


>
>>From: "93 Formula" <red93formula at hotmail.com>
>>To: lockitup at bright.net, fourth-gen at lists.f-body.org
>>CC: ne-f-body at lists.f-body.org
>>Subject: FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
>>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:22:46 -0400
>>
>>>Dal's email address is lockitup at bright.net.
>>>http://lists.f-body.org/mailman/listinfo/fourth-gen
>>
>>The original part # was 16159278  and replacement # is apparently 88999183
>>
>>This is for a 93 Formula (A4 car)
>>
>>Can you get this part ?  or direct me to someone who can?
>>
>>My mechanic was unable to find the part.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Jeff  http://FindFastCars.com 93 Formula
>>Mods: 355 forged for NOS, LT4 HotTop, 58TB, SLP Cnvrtr, 3.73s, 
>>Mufflex/Spintech 4" exhaust, Hooker LTs, 300+ Ign, Injctrs, MSD Adj Win Sw 
>>& 3 Ign Ret, K&N CAI, Diacom, CATSTuner...
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 


From red93formula at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 11 15:14:45 2006
From: red93formula at hotmail.com (93 Formula)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:14:45 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] FELP: Looking for PCM for 93 Firebird
In-Reply-To: <BAY19-DAV868AD35F04E92FC7A8FD4BA680@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY101-F139B8F4CE941261CECD82ED8680@phx.gbl>

Thanks everybody - after many phone calls I found one at 
http://www.americancamaro.com and the woman on the phone was very nice. They 
said they had every part for my car. I'm just hoping when they pull it that 
the part # matches. I feel a little relieved now. i was surprised in 
searching databases of parts and calling places and salvage yards, that 
there arent more firebirds and camaros out there to get parts from. Maybe 
that is a good thing - they are still on the road ! :-)

Jeff  http://FindFastCars.com 93 Formula
Mods: 355 forged for NOS, LT4 HotTop, 58TB, SLP Cnvrtr, 3.73s, 
Mufflex/Spintech 4" exhaust, Hooker LTs, 300+ Ign, Injctrs, MSD Adj Win Sw & 
3 Ign Ret, K&N CAI, Diacom, CATSTuner...




From miloszk at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 17:53:52 2006
From: miloszk at gmail.com (Milosz Kardasinski)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:53:52 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
References: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002201c6a53c$e23bd2b0$6801a8c0@goat>

No. Advantage...you are just wasting your money.


----- Original Message ----- >
>   If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the
tank for race purposes, does it give you  an advantage, or are you waisting
your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the advantage of
reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and therefore a more
power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
>
>   jim



From jimbutterfield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 18:01:11 2006
From: jimbutterfield at yahoo.com (Jim Butterfield)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:01:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F45A375FBE3AC5A4AAE6DDC0680@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060711230111.20805.qmail@web36713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Rob is there no benefit of better combustion because of cleaner burn....????
   
  jim

Rob Weinstock <weinstro at hotmail.com> wrote:
  >Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal 
>combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are 
>discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump fuel 
>and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that our 
>3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from 
>compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It wil 
>reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we get 
>form the supercharger... the question comes up
>
> If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the 
>tank for race purposes, does it give you an advantage, or are you waisting 
>your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the advantage of 
>reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and therefore a more 
>power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
>

The higher octane fuel allows you to run higher compression, more boost, and 
more spark advance without detonation issues. If two fuels can run under 
these same conditions without detonation, than you are wasting money on the 
higher octane fuel. You could be worse off in fact, since lower octane fuels 
tend to contain a bit more specific energy.

Regards,

Rob



 		
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1?/min.

From jimbutterfield at yahoo.com  Tue Jul 11 18:03:56 2006
From: jimbutterfield at yahoo.com (Jim Butterfield)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <0C323EFBDBDBDD4697BD0C0F2D745C5245F2EA@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <20060711230356.31265.qmail@web36709.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yes Rick... quite a few guys run smaller pulleys on the street and they get about 3-5 degrees of what we call Knock retard... where the computer backs off its max timing for that RPM/MAFF table.... and yes some bone heads went to the track and said "Oh yea give me 5 gal of race gas", not paying attentionto the gas pumper and getting leaded... bye bye O2 sensor after that weekend
   
  jim
  

"Frey, Richard K" <rfrey at iupui.edu> wrote:
  Agreed, in the absence of some tuning, higher compression, more advance
or more boost, leaner mixture, the race fuel will be a waste of money.
Further, when you step in the realm of leaded race fuels, you catalytic
converter is at risk as well as your O2 sensor.

rick frey

-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Jim Butterfield
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:14 PM
To: efi list
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas

Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal
combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are
discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump
fuel and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that
our 3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from
compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It
wil reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we
get form the supercharger... the question comes up 

If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the
tank for race purposes, does it give you an advantage, or are you
waisting your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the
advantage of reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and
therefore a more power from the cylinder... Yes/NO

jim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi


 		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Everyone is raving about the  all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

From niche at iinet.net.au  Wed Jul 12 06:27:44 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:27:44 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060711230111.20805.qmail@web36713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <BAY107-F45A375FBE3AC5A4AAE6DDC0680@phx.gbl>
	<20060711230111.20805.qmail@web36713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060712192615.02681620@iinet.net.au>>

At 07:01 AM 7/12/06, you wrote:
>Rob is there no benefit of better combustion because of cleaner burn....????

? Thats the first time Ive heard suggestion that higher octane fuels burn
more cleanly, most of the components are the same its the mix thats
important, relative proportions etc.



Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com  Wed Jul 12 07:52:19 2006
From: Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com (Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:52:19 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Test
Message-ID: <8846C6D2B241184780AAFD4C43D2B74B064DBD@LIBERTY.phx.acssd.l-3com.com>

Please do not reply.


From weinstro at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 12 11:35:56 2006
From: weinstro at hotmail.com (Rob Weinstock)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:35:56 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060711230111.20805.qmail@web36713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F771981403779174AE685FC0690@phx.gbl>

>Rob is there no benefit of better combustion because of cleaner 
>burn....????

Is there any evidence of "cleaner burn", like reduced emissions, fewer 
deposits, etc.? I don't believe there's a real benefit here.

Rob




From Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com  Wed Jul 12 11:45:03 2006
From: Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com (Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:45:03 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
Message-ID: <8846C6D2B241184780AAFD4C43D2B74B064DC1@LIBERTY.phx.acssd.l-3com.com>

I have a 99 Dodge Diesel truck (Cummings) and a 98 Ford E350 (V10) motor
home and have acquired the "Check Engine" light on both.  I have the
little hand-held code reader that reads and clears the codes, but now I
would like to see the data stream for better trouble shooting.

 

I would like to get a scan tool that works with my laptop so it can be
used out on the road (real-time data, data logging, etc.).

 

What are your favorites?  Have you seen this one?

 http://www.autoenginuity.com/

 

I called autoenginuity and they have a bundled deal for me for $550.00
since both my vehicles are not really OBD2 (since they are both over
8500 GVW, they are technically OBD1, but an OBD2 code reader will work).
I need their enhanced software they say.

 

Is there any group favorites for a laptop?  I know each has its own
advantages, but I thought I would see what the group's favorites are.
Thanks.....Tim.

 

 


From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 12 11:56:15 2006
From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
In-Reply-To: <8846C6D2B241184780AAFD4C43D2B74B064DC1@LIBERTY.phx.acssd.l-3com.com>
Message-ID: <20060712165615.63272.qmail@web80511.mail.yahoo.com>

I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me later!


----- Original Message ----
From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
To: DIY-EFI <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:45:03 AM
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....


I have a 99 Dodge Diesel truck (Cummings) and a 98 Ford E350 (V10) motor
home and have acquired the "Check Engine" light on both.  I have the
little hand-held code reader that reads and clears the codes, but now I
would like to see the data stream for better trouble shooting.



I would like to get a scan tool that works with my laptop so it can be
used out on the road (real-time data, data logging, etc.).



What are your favorites?  Have you seen this one?

http://www.autoenginuity.com/



I called autoenginuity and they have a bundled deal for me for $550.00
since both my vehicles are not really OBD2 (since they are both over
8500 GVW, they are technically OBD1, but an OBD2 code reader will work).
I need their enhanced software they say.



Is there any group favorites for a laptop?  I know each has its own
advantages, but I thought I would see what the group's favorites are.
Thanks.....Tim.
_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

From Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com  Wed Jul 12 12:07:16 2006
From: Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com (Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:07:16 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
Message-ID: <8846C6D2B241184780AAFD4C43D2B74B064DC2@LIBERTY.phx.acssd.l-3com.com>

My laptop has both, the USB and Serial ports.  My question is who has
the best deal, program, ease of use product to interface to OBD2 port?
I'm looking for a interface cable and software product to use with a
laptop....Tim.

I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to
understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional
sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there
must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial
RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx
interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and
you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in
mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me
later!


From pyager1 at mindless.com  Wed Jul 12 12:30:16 2006
From: pyager1 at mindless.com (pyager1 at mindless.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:30:16 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
Message-ID: <20060712173016.5E6A183985@ws1-2a.us4.outblaze.com>

I use the program from http://www.scantool.net/ the hardware is very low priced and the software is freeware!!
Good luck
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
> To: "Rick McLeod" <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>, diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:07:16 -0700
> 
> 
> My laptop has both, the USB and Serial ports.  My question is who has
> the best deal, program, ease of use product to interface to OBD2 port?
> I'm looking for a interface cable and software product to use with a
> laptop....Tim.
> 
> I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to
> understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional
> sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there
> must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial
> RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx
> interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and
> you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in
> mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me
> later!
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

>



From niche at iinet.net.au  Wed Jul 12 13:11:34 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:11:34 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060712192615.02681620@iinet.net.au>>
References: <BAY107-F45A375FBE3AC5A4AAE6DDC0680@phx.gbl>
	<20060711230111.20805.qmail@web36713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060712192615.02681620@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060713020858.026acae0@iinet.net.au>>

At 07:27 PM 7/12/06, you wrote:
>At 07:01 AM 7/12/06, you wrote:
>>Rob is there no benefit of better combustion because of cleaner burn....????
>
>? Thats the first time Ive heard suggestion that higher octane fuels burn
>more cleanly, most of the components are the same its the mix thats
>important, relative proportions etc.

<cough> Adding to my own post here...

Now that I recall, the higher octane benzenes which were used many years
ago did burn more cleanly however, these were also rather carcinogenic
so were not used to anywhere the same level, so we are back to the long
straight chain molecules and the heptane/octane ratio is the one which
most often influences the practical octane rating and these had no
noticable difference in emissions...



Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From five10man at commspeed.net  Wed Jul 12 13:45:25 2006
From: five10man at commspeed.net (Tom Visel)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:45:25 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F771981403779174AE685FC0690@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F771981403779174AE685FC0690@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <44B54345.8080801@commspeed.net>

A cleaner burn might be achieved if preignition were avoided. :)

I know empirically that higher octane pump fuel leads to harder starts 
in cold weather at high altitudes.  I am taught that this is due to its 
lesser volatility.  Since increased volatility improves mixture 
homogeneity, it would be reasonable to assume (EPA tests pending) that 
fuel of higher octane actually gives a less clean burn, with pockets of 
richer and leaner mixture in the chamber. 

Fewer deposits do generally follow the use of a "top tier" fuel, which 
most folks think they're getting when they buy premium.  I used to think 
the "Chevron with Techron" smiley-car commercials were BS until I'd 
replaced or cleaned enough GM Vortec injectors and read about the spec 
fuel GM used to develop and test those injectors.  Care to guess the brand?

TomV

Rob Weinstock wrote:

>> Rob is there no benefit of better combustion because of cleaner 
>> burn....????
>
>
> Is there any evidence of "cleaner burn", like reduced emissions, fewer 
> deposits, etc.? I don't believe there's a real benefit here.
>
> Rob
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
>


From espresso_doppio at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 12 15:24:08 2006
From: espresso_doppio at yahoo.com (Adam Wade)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:24:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060711230111.20805.qmail@web36713.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060712202408.66967.qmail@web32202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- Jim Butterfield <jimbutterfield at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Rob is there no benefit of better combustion because
> of cleaner burn....????

With PUMP gas, not really.  With RACE gas, it depends
entirely on what the fuel iteslf is composed of.  Is
it oxygenated?  What is its specific density?  What
sort of energy can be released from a given volume?

Your best bet is to speak with an engineer at the
company making the particular race gas.  They will be
happy to find a solution for you that works, within
the realm of the laws of physics and their ability to
make product.  There are certainly race fuels out
there which, for given engine designs, can make more
power per unit of consumption than pump gas...

| Kawasaki Zephyr 615 (Daphne)       Kawasaki Zephyr 550 (Velma)|
| "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it  |
|   didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to.   |
|  They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. |
|   The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun   |
|     had come up again."                    -Kurt Vonnegut     |
| M/C Fuel Inj. Hndbk. @ Amazon.com -  http://tinyurl.com/6o3ze |

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 12 16:11:46 2006
From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:11:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
In-Reply-To: <8846C6D2B241184780AAFD4C43D2B74B064DC2@LIBERTY.phx.acssd.l-3com.com>
Message-ID: <20060712211146.55540.qmail@web80510.mail.yahoo.com>

For my software/hardware, I'm using:
http://www.obd-2.com/
 
and have been quite satisfied w/ it, I've opt'd for the multi-protocol (router) cable that adapts to any of the 3 current interface standards.

----- Original Message ----
From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
To: Rick McLeod <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>; Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:07:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....


My laptop has both, the USB and Serial ports.  My question is who has
the best deal, program, ease of use product to interface to OBD2 port?
I'm looking for a interface cable and software product to use with a
laptop....Tim.

I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to
understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional
sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there
must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial
RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx
interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and
you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in
mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me
later!

From bill.washington at nec.com.au  Wed Jul 12 18:08:40 2006
From: bill.washington at nec.com.au (Bill Washington)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 09:08:40 +1000
Subject: [Diy_efi] laptops
In-Reply-To: <20060712170044.2833037744@ns1.nec.com.au>
References: <20060712170044.2833037744@ns1.nec.com.au>
Message-ID: <44B580F8.7080208@nec.com.au>

Rick,
    After trying Toshiba, NEC and one or two other brands for a year 
each my kid's school settled on Fujitsu 6000 series laptops - for all 
secondary students -
The Toshiba, NEC, and other brands of laptops didn't cope very well with 
the students, but the Fujitsus have stood up very well over the past 3 
years.
If you want something really robust look at the Panasonic 'Toughbook' - 
but it does cost more.....
My 2c worth

Regards
Bill

>
> Subject:
> Re: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> From:
> Rick McLeod <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>
> Date:
> Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
> To:
> diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
> To:
> diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>
>
>I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me later!
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
>To: DIY-EFI <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:45:03 AM
>Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
>
>
>I have a 99 Dodge Diesel truck (Cummings) and a 98 Ford E350 (V10) motor
>home and have acquired the "Check Engine" light on both.  I have the
>little hand-held code reader that reads and clears the codes, but now I
>would like to see the data stream for better trouble shooting.
>
>
>
>I would like to get a scan tool that works with my laptop so it can be
>used out on the road (real-time data, data logging, etc.).
>
>
>
>What are your favorites?  Have you seen this one?
>
>http://www.autoenginuity.com/
>
>
>
>I called autoenginuity and they have a bundled deal for me for $550.00
>since both my vehicles are not really OBD2 (since they are both over
>8500 GVW, they are technically OBD1, but an OBD2 code reader will work).
>I need their enhanced software they say.
>
>
>
>Is there any group favorites for a laptop?  I know each has its own
>advantages, but I thought I would see what the group's favorites are.
>Thanks.....Tim.
>
>


From j_holland at btopenworld.com  Thu Jul 13 12:47:07 2006
From: j_holland at btopenworld.com (James Holland)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:47:07 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1311919653.4627.diy_efi@diy-efi.org>

<snip>

***************************

This site has a lot of information on gasoline

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/

Cheers
James




From johnnybee8 at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 14 01:56:41 2006
From: johnnybee8 at hotmail.com (John Bee)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:56:41 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
In-Reply-To: <20060712173016.5E6A183985@ws1-2a.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F10EBE24CF2DBBFF81FFE5D816F0@phx.gbl>

Tim
DO you have a different address for scantool.net? I just get a dead link. or 
any other free software and low price (or even Schematics) links?


>From: pyager1 at mindless.com
>Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
>Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:30:16 -0500
>
>I use the program from http://www.scantool.net/ the hardware is very low 
>priced and the software is freeware!!
>Good luck
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
> > To: "Rick McLeod" <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>, diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:07:16 -0700
> >
> >
> > My laptop has both, the USB and Serial ports.  My question is who has
> > the best deal, program, ease of use product to interface to OBD2 port?
> > I'm looking for a interface cable and software product to use with a
> > laptop....Tim.
> >
> > I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to
> > understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional
> > sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there
> > must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial
> > RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx
> > interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and
> > you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in
> > mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me
> > later!
> > _______________________________________________
> > Diy_efi mailing list
> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/



From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jul 14 07:46:11 2006
From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:46:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F10EBE24CF2DBBFF81FFE5D816F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060714124611.13079.qmail@web80503.mail.yahoo.com>

I just click'd the link below, works fine for me!


----- Original Message ----
From: John Bee <johnnybee8 at hotmail.com>
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:56:41 AM
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....


Tim
DO you have a different address for scantool.net? I just get a dead link. or 
any other free software and low price (or even Schematics) links?


>From: pyager1 at mindless.com
>Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
>Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:30:16 -0500
>
>I use the program from http://www.scantool.net/ the hardware is very low 
>priced and the software is freeware!!
>Good luck
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
> > To: "Rick McLeod" <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>, diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:07:16 -0700
> >
> >
> > My laptop has both, the USB and Serial ports.  My question is who has
> > the best deal, program, ease of use product to interface to OBD2 port?
> > I'm looking for a interface cable and software product to use with a
> > laptop....Tim.
> >
> > I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to
> > understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional
> > sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there
> > must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial
> > RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx
> > interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and
> > you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in
> > mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me
> > later!
> > _______________________________________________
> > Diy_efi mailing list
> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
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_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

From pyager1 at mindless.com  Sat Jul 15 11:29:05 2006
From: pyager1 at mindless.com (pyager1 at mindless.com)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:29:05 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
Message-ID: <20060715162905.C9AAA83985@ws1-2a.us4.outblaze.com>

I just checked and www.scantool.net worked.  	they have the hardware in kit form and if you like they will sell you just the chip or the circuit board. if you still have problems, do a search on google for scantool and it should be the third on the list.
		

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Bee" <johnnybee8 at hotmail.com>
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:56:41 -0700
> 
> 
> Tim
> DO you have a different address for scantool.net? I just get a dead 
> link. or any other free software and low price (or even Schematics) 
> links?
> 
> 
> > From: pyager1 at mindless.com
> > Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:30:16 -0500
> >
> > I use the program from http://www.scantool.net/ the hardware is 
> > very low priced and the software is freeware!!
> > Good luck
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
> > > To: "Rick McLeod" <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>, diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> > > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:07:16 -0700
> > >
> > >
> > > My laptop has both, the USB and Serial ports.  My question is who has
> > > the best deal, program, ease of use product to interface to OBD2 port?
> > > I'm looking for a interface cable and software product to use with a
> > > laptop....Tim.
> > >
> > > I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to
> > > understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional
> > > sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means there
> > > must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional serial
> > > RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical OBDx
> > > interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, and
> > > you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep in
> > > mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay me
> > > later!
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Diy_efi mailing list
> > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Diy_efi mailing list
> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - 
> it's FREE! 
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

>



From johnnybee8 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 16 00:46:18 2006
From: johnnybee8 at hotmail.com (John Bee)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:46:18 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
In-Reply-To: <20060715162905.C9AAA83985@ws1-2a.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F32676C07108B20428C75B8816D0@phx.gbl>

Thanks all. Found the best price on the chips from elmelectronics.com in 
Canada. I am think about inbeding the chip in a modified piece of POS 
equipment using a capitive touchscreen and a wireless ethernet card as a 
piece of test equipment.


>From: pyager1 at mindless.com
>Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
>Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:29:05 -0500
>
>I just checked and www.scantool.net worked.  	they have the hardware in kit 
>form and if you like they will sell you just the chip or the circuit board. 
>if you still have problems, do a search on google for scantool and it 
>should be the third on the list.
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Bee" <johnnybee8 at hotmail.com>
> > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:56:41 -0700
> >
> >
> > Tim
> > DO you have a different address for scantool.net? I just get a dead
> > link. or any other free software and low price (or even Schematics)
> > links?
> >
> >
> > > From: pyager1 at mindless.com
> > > Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> > > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:30:16 -0500
> > >
> > > I use the program from http://www.scantool.net/ the hardware is
> > > very low priced and the software is freeware!!
> > > Good luck
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Van Setten, Tim @ ACSSD" <Tim.VanSetten at l-3com.com>
> > > > To: "Rick McLeod" <dunvegan at sbcglobal.net>, diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Laptop OBD2 Scan Tools....
> > > > Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:07:16 -0700
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My laptop has both, the USB and Serial ports.  My question is who 
>has
> > > > the best deal, program, ease of use product to interface to OBD2 
>port?
> > > > I'm looking for a interface cable and software product to use with a
> > > > laptop....Tim.
> > > >
> > > > I personally like Dell and Toshiba, but the key to selection is to
> > > > understand that most new units are 'sans-serial' in the traditional
> > > > sense of RS232/DB9 ports, in favor of USB for serial. That means 
>there
> > > > must be a interface that is OBDx to USB, or if it is traditional 
>serial
> > > > RS232 you'll need an RS232>USB dongle (adapter) to use the typical 
>OBDx
> > > > interface cables. There are still good values in laptops w/ serial, 
>and
> > > > you don't need a barnburner for what you're needing to do, but keep 
>in
> > > > mind other things you'll want to do w/ the laptop, pay me now or pay 
>me
> > > > later!
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Diy_efi mailing list
> > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > > > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Diy_efi mailing list
> > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -
> > it's FREE!
> > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Diy_efi mailing list
> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>Diy_efi mailing list
>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

_________________________________________________________________
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From spyro at f2s.com  Sun Jul 16 06:34:02 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:34:02 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] batch or not to batch...
Message-ID: <44BA242A.9050302@f2s.com>

Hi guys...

Just wondered if anyones done tests to see the pros and cons of batch or 
non-batch firing injectors. obviously it'll depend somewhat on the 
manifolds in use, but it'd be good to know more details.

TTFN


From dirtrider218 at hotmail.com  Sun Jul 16 14:32:20 2006
From: dirtrider218 at hotmail.com (John Smith1882)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:32:20 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: batch or not to batch...
In-Reply-To: <BAY0-MC11-F14Bvxb9i00202677@bay0-mc11-f14.bay0.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY105-F3456ECCFB79A58084566ED976D0@phx.gbl>


There have been quite a few discussions on this across the 'net that I've 
seen. The concensus seems to be that SEFI's biggest benefit over batch or 
bank fire is cleaner idle and low RPM/cruise emissions and maybe a percent 
or two better economy. It probably is also more forgiving of saturated 
injectors' slower opening times since they don't have to fire multiple times 
per combustion cycle. This would also make the ECU's driver circuit slightly 
less complex because current limiting is unecessary.

As far as manifolds, SEFI just needs a port injection style or some way to 
inject the fuel for one cylinder at a time(no Chevy-style TBI).


>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:34:02 +0100
>From: Ian Molton <spyro at f2s.com>
>Subject: [Diy_efi] batch or not to batch...
>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Message-ID: <44BA242A.9050302 at f2s.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Hi guys...
>
>Just wondered if anyones done tests to see the pros and cons of batch or
>non-batch firing injectors. obviously it'll depend somewhat on the
>manifolds in use, but it'd be good to know more details.
>
>TTFN




From stewpididiot at gmail.com  Sun Jul 16 20:47:51 2006
From: stewpididiot at gmail.com (Stew Pididiot)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 18:47:51 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Need some help identifying injectors
Message-ID: <c326226c0607161847o3b518fa3ta693cf67cc6da90d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all--

I have a set of TBI injectors stamped with part number 5235132.  I can't
seem to locate any information on these regarding which engine they are
supposed to match.

I also have a set of 5235279 injectors--are these good for a 305?  (I'm
actually installing them on a Ford 302)  According to the chart at
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/component_info/tbi_injectors.html  they work on
a 305, but I'm pretty sure the car I pulled them off had a 350 in it.


From krawczuk at dodo.com.au  Sun Jul 16 21:32:14 2006
From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:02:14 +0930
Subject: [Diy_efi] Need some help identifying injectors
References: <c326226c0607161847o3b518fa3ta693cf67cc6da90d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c6a949$376c9ed0$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp>

hi, this any good ?

http://www.usenetcars.com/archive/topic.php/t-98605.html

 had a  bit of a look and the number u gave came up ...

"latest update: I swapped the injectors with 2 units from a junk car (85or86
Caddy with 4.5L RWD). I cound not verify if the injectors are calibrated the
same as the originals (original: 5235203; used: 5235132). result: engine
still chuga-chugs, too rich."

any help  ?

mark k


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stew Pididiot" <stewpididiot at gmail.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: [Diy_efi] Need some help identifying injectors


> Hello all--
>
> I have a set of TBI injectors stamped with part number 5235132.  I can't
> seem to locate any information on these regarding which engine they are
> supposed to match.
>
> I also have a set of 5235279 injectors--are these good for a 305?  (I'm
> actually installing them on a Ford 302)  According to the chart at
> http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/component_info/tbi_injectors.html  they work 
> on
> a 305, but I'm pretty sure the car I pulled them off had a 350 in it.
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi 



From stewpididiot at gmail.com  Sun Jul 16 22:10:58 2006
From: stewpididiot at gmail.com (Stew Pididiot)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:10:58 -0700
Subject: [Diy_efi] Need some help identifying injectors
In-Reply-To: <000501c6a949$376c9ed0$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp>
References: <c326226c0607161847o3b518fa3ta693cf67cc6da90d@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501c6a949$376c9ed0$6baef0dc@marka7e6m8swbp>
Message-ID: <c326226c0607162010n35648b80lbbd8b0fdd9d39cfb@mail.gmail.com>

Yes--thanks Mark.  Lookinng at the BLM tables generated running the 5235132
set I figured they were too lean for a 5.0 and was figuring that they were
4.3 injectors--or just about anything <5.0 injectors.

I popped in the 5235279 set and the car is running very well!  Most of the
BLM table numbers are 128 +/- and within decent limits.




On 7/16/06, mark krawczuk <krawczuk at dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
> hi, this any good ?
>
> http://www.usenetcars.com/archive/topic.php/t-98605.html
>
> had a  bit of a look and the number u gave came up ...
>
> "latest update: I swapped the injectors with 2 units from a junk car
> (85or86
> Caddy with 4.5L RWD). I cound not verify if the injectors are calibrated
> the
> same as the originals (original: 5235203; used: 5235132). result: engine
> still chuga-chugs, too rich."
>
> any help  ?
>
> mark k
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stew Pididiot" <stewpididiot at gmail.com>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:17 AM
> Subject: [Diy_efi] Need some help identifying injectors
>
>
> > Hello all--
> >
> > I have a set of TBI injectors stamped with part number 5235132.  I can't
> > seem to locate any information on these regarding which engine they are
> > supposed to match.
> >
> > I also have a set of 5235279 injectors--are these good for a 305?  (I'm
> > actually installing them on a Ford 302)  According to the chart at
> > http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/component_info/tbi_injectors.html  they
> work
> > on
> > a 305, but I'm pretty sure the car I pulled them off had a 350 in it.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Diy_efi mailing list
> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> > Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>


From redbeard at xmission.com  Sun Jul 16 22:40:48 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:40:48 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
Message-ID: <20060717034048.GA9590@xmission.xmission.com>

Hi all,

I've been reading the list for a while now, and I'm excited to begin my
own conversion, but (and there's always a but) I've got oldsmobile
engines, and I'm not having much luck finding the stock Olds aluminum
intake for TBI (it's a 3ER-38086) for a small block olds.  I've seen
adaptor plates for 4bbl intakes, but I've also heard that they don't
work very well.

Do any of you know where the factory olds intake for tbi can be found?

I'd love to hear I'm wrong about the adaptor plates for 4bbl intakes,
have any of you had experience with them?

Thanks,
Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Mon Jul 17 09:30:52 2006
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:30:52 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301112D18@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Dan Maker
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 10:41 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I've been reading the list for a while now, and I'm excited 
> to begin my own conversion, but (and there's always a but) 
> I've got oldsmobile engines, and I'm not having much luck 
> finding the stock Olds aluminum intake for TBI (it's a 
> 3ER-38086) for a small block olds.  I've seen adaptor plates 
> for 4bbl intakes, but I've also heard that they don't work very well.
> 
> Do any of you know where the factory olds intake for tbi can be found?

Dan, if you know an application for that manifold then go to
www.car-part.com, it's a nationwide junkyard search engine.

--steve

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.



From rfrey at iupui.edu  Mon Jul 17 09:49:52 2006
From: rfrey at iupui.edu (Frey, Richard K)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:49:52 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] batch or not to batch...
In-Reply-To: <44BA242A.9050302@f2s.com>
Message-ID: <0C323EFBDBDBDD4697BD0C0F2D745C5245F428@iu-mssg-mbx101.ads.iu.edu>

For maximum efficiency and lowest pollution, sequential firing is a
plus.  Otherwise, batch fire is just fine.  Sequential injection allows
slightly, very slightly, better idle, efficiency, and emissions at low
rpms.  At any kind of power requirement, your injector duty cycle will
be 80 - 90% which means they're open nearly all of the time, so batch
firing is about the same as sequential at that point.  Individual
injectors per cylinder is a must, but batch firing is, although not the
best, just fine.

My opinion,

rick frey

-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Ian Molton
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:34 AM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: [Diy_efi] batch or not to batch...

Hi guys...

Just wondered if anyones done tests to see the pros and cons of batch or

non-batch firing injectors. obviously it'll depend somewhat on the 
manifolds in use, but it'd be good to know more details.

TTFN
_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi


From aoturneriii at tds.net  Mon Jul 17 11:11:44 2006
From: aoturneriii at tds.net (Arby)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:11:44 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
References: <20060717034048.GA9590@xmission.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c6a9bb$b3d11380$0300a8c0@NATALIE>

Dan,

We have a TBI 4bbl adapter on a 383 Chevy and it works just fine.  Its 
really not any different from adding a carb spacer.  I would try to find the 
proper manifold but don't beat yourself up over it if its hard to come by. 
An adapter will be ok.

Arby

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Maker" <redbeard at xmission.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 11:40 PM
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI


> Hi all,
>
> I've been reading the list for a while now, and I'm excited to begin my
> own conversion, but (and there's always a but) I've got oldsmobile
> engines, and I'm not having much luck finding the stock Olds aluminum
> intake for TBI (it's a 3ER-38086) for a small block olds.  I've seen
> adaptor plates for 4bbl intakes, but I've also heard that they don't
> work very well.
>
> Do any of you know where the factory olds intake for tbi can be found?
>
> I'd love to hear I'm wrong about the adaptor plates for 4bbl intakes,
> have any of you had experience with them?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
> -- 
> Jack of all trades
> Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
> http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi 



From ScottyGrover at aol.com  Mon Jul 17 11:18:19 2006
From: ScottyGrover at aol.com (ScottyGrover at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:18:19 EDT
Subject: [Diy_efi] batch or not to batch...
Message-ID: <434.572a39c.31ed124b@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 7/17/2006 8:08:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
rfrey at iupui.edu writes:

For  maximum efficiency and lowest pollution, sequential firing is a
plus.   Otherwise, batch fire is just fine.  Sequential injection  allows
slightly, very slightly, better idle, efficiency, and emissions at  low
rpms.  At any kind of power requirement, your injector duty cycle  will
be 80 - 90% which means they're open nearly all of the time, so  batch
firing is about the same as sequential at that point.   Individual
injectors per cylinder is a must, but batch firing is, although  not the
best, just fine.

My opinion,

rick  frey



A better idea is to size your injectors for max. power at no more than 80%  
duty cycle. Numerous books and magazine articles have this information.   
You'll need this (but definitely) if you're going to use a turbo--that's what  
Buick did.
Scotty


From redbeard at xmission.com  Mon Jul 17 17:20:39 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:20:39 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301112D18@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301112D18@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <20060717222039.GA9930@xmission.xmission.com>

On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 09:30:52AM -0500, Steve Ravet wrote:
> 
> Dan, if you know an application for that manifold then go to
> www.car-part.com, it's a nationwide junkyard search engine.
> 
> --steve

Aye, there's the rub.  I have not been able to confirm any specific
application.  Rumors say it was used on some Cadilacs using the 307 Olds
engine, some time in the '80's, but I have not been able to verify this.
In fact, all efforts to verify it have contra-indicated it.  :(

Thanks for the suggestion.  www.car-part.com can be an excelent resource
(although they say '71 monte carlo front windshield will fit my '71
vista cruiser, and it most certianly will not, we tried.)

Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From redbeard at xmission.com  Mon Jul 17 17:21:40 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:21:40 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <003b01c6a9bb$b3d11380$0300a8c0@NATALIE>
References: <20060717034048.GA9590@xmission.xmission.com>
	<003b01c6a9bb$b3d11380$0300a8c0@NATALIE>
Message-ID: <20060717222140.GB9930@xmission.xmission.com>

On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 12:11:44PM -0400, Arby wrote:
> Dan,
> 
> We have a TBI 4bbl adapter on a 383 Chevy and it works just fine.  Its 
> really not any different from adding a carb spacer.  I would try to find 
> the proper manifold but don't beat yourself up over it if its hard to come 
> by. An adapter will be ok.
> 
> Arby

Arby,

That's very good to hear.

Thanks,
Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From jlg-sep at comcast.net  Mon Jul 17 17:56:53 2006
From: jlg-sep at comcast.net (Scott Peitzsch)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:56:53 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301112D18@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<20060717222039.GA9930@xmission.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <001701c6a9f4$4c05f110$6601a8c0@HPDESKTOP>

>> Dan, if you know an application for that manifold then go to
>> www.car-part.com, it's a nationwide junkyard search engine.
>> 
>> --steve
> 
> Aye, there's the rub.  I have not been able to confirm any specific
> application.  Rumors say it was used on some Cadilacs using the 307 Olds
> engine, some time in the '80's, but I have not been able to verify this.
> In fact, all efforts to verify it have contra-indicated it.  :(
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.  www.car-part.com can be an excelent resource
> (although they say '71 monte carlo front windshield will fit my '71
> vista cruiser, and it most certianly will not, we tried.)

You're looking for a setup from a '77-79 Cadillac Seville with the
fuel injected Olds 350.  It used an analog fuel injection system with
some fairly high flowing (~38#/hr or so) low impedance injectors.
I recently help a friend troubleshoot a few electrical gremlins on
one (in his case, a '77) as NONE of the local mechanics would even
consider touching it.

-Scott



From redbeard at xmission.com  Mon Jul 17 19:45:20 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:45:20 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <001701c6a9f4$4c05f110$6601a8c0@HPDESKTOP>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301112D18@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<20060717222039.GA9930@xmission.xmission.com>
	<001701c6a9f4$4c05f110$6601a8c0@HPDESKTOP>
Message-ID: <20060718004520.GA26365@xmission.xmission.com>

On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 06:56:53PM -0400, Scott Peitzsch wrote:
> 
> You're looking for a setup from a '77-79 Cadillac Seville with the
> fuel injected Olds 350.  It used an analog fuel injection system with
> some fairly high flowing (~38#/hr or so) low impedance injectors.
> I recently help a friend troubleshoot a few electrical gremlins on
> one (in his case, a '77) as NONE of the local mechanics would even
> consider touching it.
> 
> -Scott

Scott,

What I've read indicates that system had one injector per cylinder, more
of a tuned port thing.  I'm looking to go to TBI, not TPI.  Perhaps I'm
wrong.

I can understand why none of the local mechanics would touch it.  If you
have oportunity to take some digital pictures of his setup, I'd sure
love to see 'em.

Thanks,
Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From jlg-sep at comcast.net  Mon Jul 17 20:13:16 2006
From: jlg-sep at comcast.net (Scott Peitzsch)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:13:16 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301112D18@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com><20060717222039.GA9930@xmission.xmission.com><001701c6a9f4$4c05f110$6601a8c0@HPDESKTOP>
	<20060718004520.GA26365@xmission.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c6aa07$5a251330$6801a8c0@Monkey>

>> You're looking for a setup from a '77-79 Cadillac Seville with the
>> fuel injected Olds 350.  It used an analog fuel injection system with
>> some fairly high flowing (~38#/hr or so) low impedance injectors.
>> I recently help a friend troubleshoot a few electrical gremlins on
>> one (in his case, a '77) as NONE of the local mechanics would even
>> consider touching it.
>> 
>> -Scott
> 
> Scott,
> 
> What I've read indicates that system had one injector per cylinder, more
> of a tuned port thing.  I'm looking to go to TBI, not TPI.  Perhaps I'm
> wrong.
> 
> I can understand why none of the local mechanics would touch it.  If you
> have oportunity to take some digital pictures of his setup, I'd sure
> love to see 'em.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan

You're correct, this system has one injector per cylinder, but it does use
a throttle body that is quite similar to other "traditional" TBI setups.

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you be interested in this type system?
The throttle body is in the same location as a traditional carb, making
placement/fitment of the air cleaner a non-issue.  Either swap will require
a new fuel pump/setup, with the only significant difference being fuel
pressure.  Both TBI ECMs (like the 1227747) and TPI ECMs (like
the 1227727/730/749) are abundant in junkyards and well hacked.
If you're going with a homebrew ECM, neither is really a problem.

In your application, what's the benefit or motivation for considering
only TBI?

-Scott



From qndskmo at eatel.net  Mon Jul 17 20:56:22 2006
From: qndskmo at eatel.net (Wallace O. Powelle)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:56:22 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301112D18@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com><20060717222039.GA9930@xmission.xmission.com><001701c6a9f4$4c05f110$6601a8c0@HPDESKTOP><20060718004520.GA26365@xmission.xmission.com>
	<000a01c6aa07$5a251330$6801a8c0@Monkey>
Message-ID: <010b01c6aa0d$6784a1c0$6400a8c0@QuinnsLaptop>

If I'm not mistaken the 307 & 350 Olds were never available with TBI, the 
last ones I saw were feedback carbs.  The Seville with the 350 Olds block 
may have had special heads for the port injection setup.  Just my feeble 
memory, Wallace
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Peitzsch" <jlg-sep at comcast.net>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI


>>> You're looking for a setup from a '77-79 Cadillac Seville with the
>>> fuel injected Olds 350.  It used an analog fuel injection system with
>>> some fairly high flowing (~38#/hr or so) low impedance injectors.
>>> I recently help a friend troubleshoot a few electrical gremlins on
>>> one (in his case, a '77) as NONE of the local mechanics would even
>>> consider touching it.
>>>
>>> -Scott
>>
>> Scott,
>>
>> What I've read indicates that system had one injector per cylinder, more
>> of a tuned port thing.  I'm looking to go to TBI, not TPI.  Perhaps I'm
>> wrong.
>>
>> I can understand why none of the local mechanics would touch it.  If you
>> have oportunity to take some digital pictures of his setup, I'd sure
>> love to see 'em.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
>
> You're correct, this system has one injector per cylinder, but it does use
> a throttle body that is quite similar to other "traditional" TBI setups.
>
> Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you be interested in this type system?
> The throttle body is in the same location as a traditional carb, making
> placement/fitment of the air cleaner a non-issue.  Either swap will 
> require
> a new fuel pump/setup, with the only significant difference being fuel
> pressure.  Both TBI ECMs (like the 1227747) and TPI ECMs (like
> the 1227727/730/749) are abundant in junkyards and well hacked.
> If you're going with a homebrew ECM, neither is really a problem.
>
> In your application, what's the benefit or motivation for considering
> only TBI?
>
> -Scott
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 



From redbeard at xmission.com  Mon Jul 17 23:47:07 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:47:07 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <000a01c6aa07$5a251330$6801a8c0@Monkey>
References: <20060718004520.GA26365@xmission.xmission.com>
	<000a01c6aa07$5a251330$6801a8c0@Monkey>
Message-ID: <20060718044707.GB8415@xmission.xmission.com>

On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 09:13:16PM -0400, Scott Peitzsch wrote:
> 
> You're correct, this system has one injector per cylinder, but it does use
> a throttle body that is quite similar to other "traditional" TBI setups.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you be interested in this type system?
> The throttle body is in the same location as a traditional carb, making
> placement/fitment of the air cleaner a non-issue.  Either swap will require
> a new fuel pump/setup, with the only significant difference being fuel
> pressure.  Both TBI ECMs (like the 1227747) and TPI ECMs (like
> the 1227727/730/749) are abundant in junkyards and well hacked.
> If you're going with a homebrew ECM, neither is really a problem.
> 
> In your application, what's the benefit or motivation for considering
> only TBI?

I was under the impression that there were significant issues wrt that
TPI system.  From what you're saying, they can be over come with later
controlers.

Thanks for the help,
Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From redbeard at xmission.com  Mon Jul 17 23:51:02 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:51:02 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <010b01c6aa0d$6784a1c0$6400a8c0@QuinnsLaptop>
References: <000a01c6aa07$5a251330$6801a8c0@Monkey>
	<010b01c6aa0d$6784a1c0$6400a8c0@QuinnsLaptop>
Message-ID: <20060718045102.GC8415@xmission.xmission.com>

On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 08:56:22PM -0500, Wallace O. Powelle wrote:
> If I'm not mistaken the 307 & 350 Olds were never available with TBI, the 
> last ones I saw were feedback carbs.  The Seville with the 350 Olds block 
> may have had special heads for the port injection setup.  Just my feeble 
> memory, Wallace

Wallace,

As far as I've been able to tell, the Seville setup used standard heads,
but had an applicaton specific intake.  A friend of mine that's been a
mechanic for some 20 years, says he's seen a few Caddies that had olds
engines, with TBI, I found a reference in the online oldsmobile
documentation (not factory, but fan gathered documents) to a CFI intake,
with a three bolt pattern, which sounds right for TBI, perhaps this is
actually the intake for the late '70s TPI that was used on the
Cadillacs.

Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From jlg-sep at comcast.net  Tue Jul 18 06:15:10 2006
From: jlg-sep at comcast.net (Scott Peitzsch)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:15:10 +0000
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
Message-ID: <071820061115.17974.44BCC2BE00009EE80000463622007374789F0A9CD3090406@comcast.net>

> > In your application, what's the benefit or motivation for considering
> > only TBI?
> 
> I was under the impression that there were significant issues wrt that
> TPI system.  From what you're saying, they can be over come with later
> controlers.
> 
> Thanks for the help,
> Dan
>

The ECM and sensors that came with the Seville had some reliability
issues, but they can indeed all be overcome by later sensors and controllers.
In your case, you'd likely only be interested in the intake, fuel rails and
mechanical bits from the Seville.  The rest of the sensors, wiring and ECM
can be sourced from any number of newer vehicles.  Here's a page put
together by a long time GMECM member that you might be interested in:

http://grimers.com/vehicles/olds/403efi/index.html

-Scott


From mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net  Tue Jul 18 08:20:03 2006
From: mrcad472 at iowatelecom.net (Scott Pearson)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:20:03 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
References: <000a01c6aa07$5a251330$6801a8c0@Monkey><010b01c6aa0d$6784a1c0$6400a8c0@QuinnsLaptop>
	<20060718045102.GC8415@xmission.xmission.com>
Message-ID: <0b3b01c6aa6c$e34ef3f0$6601a8c0@DELL3G>

If you're really set on TBI, use the Caddy intake, plug the injector ports 
and install a TBI unit on it. Bob Valentine was using a TBI w/o injectors 
for a throttle body on his Cutlass.

I believe that Caddy intake will bolt up to just about any Olds V8 (Bob's is 
on a 403).

Scott

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Maker" <redbeard at xmission.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI


> On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 08:56:22PM -0500, Wallace O. Powelle wrote:
>> If I'm not mistaken the 307 & 350 Olds were never available with TBI, the
>> last ones I saw were feedback carbs.  The Seville with the 350 Olds block
>> may have had special heads for the port injection setup.  Just my feeble
>> memory, Wallace
>
> Wallace,
>
> As far as I've been able to tell, the Seville setup used standard heads,
> but had an applicaton specific intake.  A friend of mine that's been a
> mechanic for some 20 years, says he's seen a few Caddies that had olds
> engines, with TBI, I found a reference in the online oldsmobile
> documentation (not factory, but fan gathered documents) to a CFI intake,
> with a three bolt pattern, which sounds right for TBI, perhaps this is
> actually the intake for the late '70s TPI that was used on the
> Cadillacs.
>
> Dan





From james.d.ulmer at usps.gov  Tue Jul 18 08:30:38 2006
From: james.d.ulmer at usps.gov (Ulmer, James D - Denver, CO)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:30:38 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <0b3b01c6aa6c$e34ef3f0$6601a8c0@DELL3G>
Message-ID: <11C99472FAC536408B55E5E30924AB2D026629CC@EAGNMNSXM18>

That would be any small block Olds. Big blocks use different intake.

Big Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Scott Pearson
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:20 AM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI

If you're really set on TBI, use the Caddy intake, plug the injector
ports 
and install a TBI unit on it. Bob Valentine was using a TBI w/o
injectors 
for a throttle body on his Cutlass.

I believe that Caddy intake will bolt up to just about any Olds V8
(Bob's is 
on a 403).

Scott




From jjensen at royal.wednet.edu  Tue Jul 18 12:37:36 2006
From: jjensen at royal.wednet.edu (Jens Jensen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:37:36 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
Message-ID: <000001c6aa90$dbd80de0$eef30a0a@JJ6SCIENCELT>

Have been reading for some time - first time I have submitted a question
here.
 
I have a 62 IH Scout with a 4 cyl that I have put a GM TBI system on,
and I am running into a few problems.
 
As background, the harness is in - chip has a standard 350 bin on it
that I changed from 8 cyl to 4 that is a starting point for developing a
chip for this application.  I have a moates autoprom and tunerpro rt,
and I have just finished the install and am currently trying to get it
to run.
 
Did the key on checks and everything looks fine other than my knock
sensor is showing 0 and not 9 volts.
 
Some side notes - I am using a flamethrower coil.  Also - the
distributor is a GM - IH Holley merge - meaning a GM top on a Holley
housing.
 
I have logged a little data while it was at an idle.  I will attach it -
you can see the rpm's are at zero and not registering when I monitor
from TunerPro RT.  The RPM's did monitor during one idle, but have not
shown up again.
 
The problem I am running into is that the timing is jumping around
regardless of if I have the bypass plugged in or not - meaning that as
soon as I open the throttle the timing immediatly jumps to ~20, the
motor boggs down, I close the throttle, timing instantly returns to
zero, and then it has a huge backfire out of the exhaust.
 
I figure that either the EST is screwed or there is a problem with the
GM / Holley merge.  Before I tear into the distributor - is there any
reason that the timing would change even with the bypass disconnected?

From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jul 18 15:22:09 2006
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:22:09 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301113140@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jens Jensen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
> 
> I figure that either the EST is screwed or there is a problem 
> with the GM / Holley merge.  Before I tear into the 
> distributor - is there any reason that the timing would 
> change even with the bypass disconnected?
> 

The module has built in timing.  The curve is flat, with a sudden jump
around 2000 rpm, then flat again.  This is what is used if the computer
is disconnected.  Is that what you saw?

--steve


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.



From jjensen at royal.wednet.edu  Tue Jul 18 13:44:26 2006
From: jjensen at royal.wednet.edu (Jens Jensen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:44:26 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
In-Reply-To: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301113140@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <000001c6aa9a$31f3bae0$eef30a0a@JJ6SCIENCELT>

Well - I would not say that I had got the motor to 2000 RPM, but this
does sound like what I saw.  The jump from 0 to 20 is instant - as is
the jump from 20 back to 0 when I close the throttle.  

Chance this could happen at lower RPM than 2000?

If my issue is because of the module's built in timing - and I am having
the same problem with the bypass both plugged in and unplugged - What
would that mean?



-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Ravet
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:22 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion


 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org
> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jens Jensen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
> 
> I figure that either the EST is screwed or there is a problem
> with the GM / Holley merge.  Before I tear into the 
> distributor - is there any reason that the timing would 
> change even with the bypass disconnected?
> 

The module has built in timing.  The curve is flat, with a sudden jump
around 2000 rpm, then flat again.  This is what is used if the computer
is disconnected.  Is that what you saw?

--steve


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
the information in any medium.  Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi



From scoutii76 at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 18 15:52:54 2006
From: scoutii76 at hotmail.com (Bill USN-1)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:52:54 +0200
Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
In-Reply-To: <000001c6aa9a$31f3bae0$eef30a0a@JJ6SCIENCELT>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV20B48E2688008E05ED301B0630@phx.gbl>

Jens

It means you didn't follow the instructions properly!

:-)

Bill
USN-1


-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On
Behalf Of Jens Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:44 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion

Well - I would not say that I had got the motor to 2000 RPM, but this
does sound like what I saw.  The jump from 0 to 20 is instant - as is
the jump from 20 back to 0 when I close the throttle.  

Chance this could happen at lower RPM than 2000?

If my issue is because of the module's built in timing - and I am having
the same problem with the bypass both plugged in and unplugged - What
would that mean?



-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Ravet
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:22 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion


 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org
> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jens Jensen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
> 
> I figure that either the EST is screwed or there is a problem
> with the GM / Holley merge.  Before I tear into the 
> distributor - is there any reason that the timing would 
> change even with the bypass disconnected?
> 

The module has built in timing.  The curve is flat, with a sudden jump
around 2000 rpm, then flat again.  This is what is used if the computer
is disconnected.  Is that what you saw?

--steve


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
the information in any medium.  Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

_______________________________________________
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Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
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From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Tue Jul 18 16:04:10 2006
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:04:10 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org 
> [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jens Jensen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:44 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
> 
> Well - I would not say that I had got the motor to 2000 RPM, 
> but this does sound like what I saw.  The jump from 0 to 20 
> is instant - as is the jump from 20 back to 0 when I close 
> the throttle.  
> 
> Chance this could happen at lower RPM than 2000?

Maybe, if you have noise or pickup line the module might think the RPM
is higher than it really is.

> 
> If my issue is because of the module's built in timing - and 
> I am having the same problem with the bypass both plugged in 
> and unplugged - What would that mean?

It would mean the module is in bypass mode all the time.  Check the
manual to see what voltage should be on the bypass line with the
connector both connected and disconnected, and then check if that's what
you have.

--steve


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.



From jjensen at royal.wednet.edu  Tue Jul 18 14:08:34 2006
From: jjensen at royal.wednet.edu (Jens Jensen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:08:34 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV20B48E2688008E05ED301B0630@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <000201c6aa9d$90dc9380$eef30a0a@JJ6SCIENCELT>

Uh oh - Busted!

Bill has been helping me thru this and I am grateful.


-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Bill USN-1
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:53 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion


Jens

It means you didn't follow the instructions properly!

:-)

Bill
USN-1


-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Jens Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:44 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion

Well - I would not say that I had got the motor to 2000 RPM, but this
does sound like what I saw.  The jump from 0 to 20 is instant - as is
the jump from 20 back to 0 when I close the throttle.  

Chance this could happen at lower RPM than 2000?

If my issue is because of the module's built in timing - and I am having
the same problem with the bypass both plugged in and unplugged - What
would that mean?



-----Original Message-----
From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Ravet
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:22 PM
To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion


 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]

> On Behalf Of Jens Jensen
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 12:38 PM
> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
> 
> I figure that either the EST is screwed or there is a problem with the

> GM / Holley merge.  Before I tear into the distributor - is there any 
> reason that the timing would change even with the bypass disconnected?
> 

The module has built in timing.  The curve is flat, with a sudden jump
around 2000 rpm, then flat again.  This is what is used if the computer
is disconnected.  Is that what you saw?

--steve


-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy
the information in any medium.  Thank you.

_______________________________________________
Diy_efi mailing list
Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi

_______________________________________________
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Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
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From redbeard at xmission.com  Tue Jul 18 17:18:26 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:18:26 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <0b3b01c6aa6c$e34ef3f0$6601a8c0@DELL3G>
References: <20060718045102.GC8415@xmission.xmission.com>
	<0b3b01c6aa6c$e34ef3f0$6601a8c0@DELL3G>
Message-ID: <20060718221826.GA22156@xmission.xmission.com>

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 08:20:03AM -0500, Scott Pearson wrote:
> If you're really set on TBI, use the Caddy intake, plug the injector ports 
> and install a TBI unit on it. Bob Valentine was using a TBI w/o injectors 
> for a throttle body on his Cutlass.

No, I'm not realy set on TBI, TPI would be fine too.  What I am set on
is FI.

> I believe that Caddy intake will bolt up to just about any Olds V8 (Bob's is 
> on a 403).

It'll bolt up to a modern small block oldsmobile V8 (307, 350, or 403).
It will not bolt up to a modern big block oldsmobile V8 (400, 455).

If I can find one, I'll go TPI, if I can't, I'll get an adaptor plate, a
nice aluminum after market intake and go TBI.

Many Thanks,
Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From redbeard at xmission.com  Tue Jul 18 17:20:06 2006
From: redbeard at xmission.com (Dan Maker)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:20:06 -0600
Subject: [Diy_efi] Converting from Carburation to TBI
In-Reply-To: <071820061115.17974.44BCC2BE00009EE80000463622007374789F0A9CD3090406@comcast.net>
References: <071820061115.17974.44BCC2BE00009EE80000463622007374789F0A9CD3090406@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20060718222006.GB22156@xmission.xmission.com>

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 11:15:10AM +0000, Scott Peitzsch wrote:
> 
> The ECM and sensors that came with the Seville had some reliability
> issues, but they can indeed all be overcome by later sensors and controllers.
> In your case, you'd likely only be interested in the intake, fuel rails and
> mechanical bits from the Seville.  The rest of the sensors, wiring and ECM
> can be sourced from any number of newer vehicles.  Here's a page put
> together by a long time GMECM member that you might be interested in:
> 
> http://grimers.com/vehicles/olds/403efi/index.html
> 
> -Scott

Excelent, thanks much!

Dan
-- 
Jack of all trades
Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker
http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard


From torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu  Wed Jul 19 15:14:27 2006
From: torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F6rn_Forsman?=)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:14:27 +0200
Subject: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
In-Reply-To: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <44BE92A3.9040704@gengas.nu>

One possibility might be that the distributor is rotating in the wrong 
direction (the opposite direction against what the GM part was intended 
for). In that case, interchange the leads from the inductive pickup.

Furthermore, it might be a good idea to use a ignition module that is 
intended for a 4-cylinder engine.

I have bad experience of using anything other than the original types of 
ignition coils for the HEI ignition systems. Those ignition modules 
differ from all other ones in that they have no transient protection for 
the switch transistor, they rely on that the original ignition coil is 
designed so that it can never give voltage spikes above ca. 350 V across 
the primary even if the secondary is disconnected.

Some years ago, i converted an old Volvo (engine B20A, 4-cyl, 2.0 l) 
from carb to GM TBI, i used a TBI system from an Opel with 4-cyl 1.6 l 
engine. The distributor was assembled of part from several old Bosch 
distributors, in order to get an inductive pickup in a casing that fits 
the Volvo engine.

I have not changed the bin at all, just increased the fuel pressure to 
about 1.9 bars by using an adjustable pressure regulator in the return 
line, in order to adapt the system to the larger engine.

Best regards

Torbj?rn Forsman


Steve Ravet wrote:
>  
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org 
>>[mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Jens Jensen
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:44 PM
>>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>>Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Some problems with my FI conversion
>>
>>Well - I would not say that I had got the motor to 2000 RPM, 
>>but this does sound like what I saw.  The jump from 0 to 20 
>>is instant - as is the jump from 20 back to 0 when I close 
>>the throttle.  
>>
>>Chance this could happen at lower RPM than 2000?
> 
> 
> Maybe, if you have noise or pickup line the module might think the RPM
> is higher than it really is.
> 
> 
>>If my issue is because of the module's built in timing - and 
>>I am having the same problem with the bypass both plugged in 
>>and unplugged - What would that mean?
> 
> 
> It would mean the module is in bypass mode all the time.  Check the
> manual to see what voltage should be on the bypass line with the
> connector both connected and disconnected, and then check if that's what
> you have.
> 
> --steve
> 
> 
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 



From niche at iinet.net.au  Mon Jul 24 08:23:28 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:23:28 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?
In-Reply-To: <44BE92A3.9040704@gengas.nu>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<44BE92A3.9040704@gengas.nu>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>>

Hi chaps,

Sorry for the off topic post but as its been a bit quiet recently, 
I'm curious what you guys might recommend as an alternator
with an integrated power steering pump which has a 12v output
of 80 to 120Amps ?

A bosch unit like that used on a VL Commodore with internal fan
would be ideal,



Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From niche at iinet.net.au  Mon Jul 24 09:33:49 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:33:49 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<44BE92A3.9040704@gengas.nu>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060724223254.026c63f0@iinet.net.au>>

At 09:23 PM 7/24/06, you wrote:
>Sorry for the off topic post but as its been a bit quiet recently, 
>I'm curious what you guys might recommend as an alternator
>with an integrated power steering pump which has a 12v output
>of 80 to 120Amps ?

Here I go answering my own posts <guh>  Just found this one,

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&item=280010059818

Anyone have any comments on upgrading this with winding changes or whatever
to get a few more amps etc ?




Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au  Mon Jul 24 20:28:43 2006
From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:28:43 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060724223254.026c63f0@iinet.net.au>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724223254.026c63f0@iinet.net.au>>
Message-ID: <200607250928.43248@death.2.spammers>

On Monday 24 July 2006 22:33, Mike wrote:
> At 09:23 PM 7/24/06, you wrote:

> >I'm curious what you guys might recommend as an alternator
> >with an integrated power steering pump which has a 12v output
> >of 80 to 120Amps ?

> Anyone have any comments on upgrading this with winding changes or
> whatever to get a few more amps etc ?

Why does it have to be integrated?

Especially a power steering pump; which has to have characteristics
to match other power steering elements in the car?

The power steering and alternator in my company car are
"integrated"; it's electrical steering assistance with a huge
(120A IIRC) alternator. That's obviously to keep the battery charged
as the diesel injectors appear to draw quite a lot of current.

-- 
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | "Laws do not persuade just because
 X   against HTML mail     |  they threaten."
/ \  and postings          | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD.




From qndskmo at eatel.net  Mon Jul 24 21:22:12 2006
From: qndskmo at eatel.net (Wallace O. Powelle)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:22:12 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com><44BE92A3.9040704@gengas.nu><7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724223254.026c63f0@iinet.net.au>>
Message-ID: <00e701c6af91$24a06d10$6400a8c0@QuinnsLaptop>

Is that a power steering pump? Most units that I've seen like this are on a 
diesel & thats a vaccum pump for the brakes & climate controls/cruise 
control.  Wallace
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike" <niche at iinet.net.au>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?


> At 09:23 PM 7/24/06, you wrote:
>>Sorry for the off topic post but as its been a bit quiet recently,
>>I'm curious what you guys might recommend as an alternator
>>with an integrated power steering pump which has a 12v output
>>of 80 to 120Amps ?
>
> Here I go answering my own posts <guh>  Just found this one,
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&item=280010059818
>
> Anyone have any comments on upgrading this with winding changes or 
> whatever
> to get a few more amps etc ?
>
>
>
>
> Regards from
>
>
> Mike
> Perth, Western Australia
> VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
> Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
> http://niche.iinet.net.au
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 



From niche at iinet.net.au  Tue Jul 25 00:40:02 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:40:02 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?
In-Reply-To: <200607250928.43248@death.2.spammers>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724223254.026c63f0@iinet.net.au>
	<200607250928.43248@death.2.spammers>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060725133241.026b8580@iinet.net.au>>

At 09:28 AM 7/25/06, you wrote:
>Why does it have to be integrated?

Doesnt have to be but appears best way to remove PS pump left of
engine to free up turbo inlet for some mods. Right of engine has
existing alternator but no room for another pulley hence approach
to explore removing existing alternator and replacing with an
integrated unit as there is just enough room behind it (once I
move a couple of pipes).

>Especially a power steering pump; which has to have characteristics
>to match other power steering elements in the car?

Yes true, so its sensible to explore the specs, if I can find an
existing integrated unit and see to removing the pump (if its not
compatible) then it may well be easier to replace with the pump
I am currently using. Of the 4 or so different pumps I have seen so
far are all vane type with only minor differences in flow/rpm rating.
I am happy to change the pulley size on the 'integrated' unit and
compensate with a smps regulator to 'bring up' the alternator output
if its overall rpms are low as I will put PS ahead of alternator output
in terms of operational priority...



Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From niche at iinet.net.au  Tue Jul 25 02:54:08 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:54:08 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: power steering pump
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060725155354.0321f800@iinet.net.au>>

At 03:06 PM 7/25/06, you wrote:
>Hi I am from the philippines. Read your post on the diy efi. Why don't you use the newer electronic power steering such as used by the later model hondas or maybe one from an MR2 where in the pump has an electric motor. Mawie

Thanks, but too many changes to rack and torque sensors etc.

All I need to do is move pump, attaching one to the back of the alternator
would be a lot easier than adding force sensors like hte mr2 setup, I dont
want to change the dynamics, so moving the pump is the easier option...


Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From chris at chriswilson.tv  Wed Jul 26 07:17:03 2006
From: chris at chriswilson.tv (Chris Wilson)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:17:03 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<44BE92A3.9040704@gengas.nu>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>>
Message-ID: <277616336.20060726131703@chriswilson.tv>



  26/07/2006 13:16

Lexus Soarer V8's have that set up.

-- 
       Best Regards,
                   Chris Wilson.



From niche at iinet.net.au  Wed Jul 26 08:57:46 2006
From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 21:57:46 +0800
Subject: [Diy_efi] [ot] Alternator integrated with power steering pump ?
In-Reply-To: <277616336.20060726131703@chriswilson.tv>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C74341406117830111316E@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
	<44BE92A3.9040704@gengas.nu>
	<7.0.0.16.0.20060724212111.0265b190@iinet.net.au>
	<277616336.20060726131703@chriswilson.tv>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060726215620.026c0220@iinet.net.au>>

At 08:17 PM 7/26/06, you wrote:
>  26/07/2006 13:16
>
>Lexus Soarer V8's have that set up.

Ah brilliant, thanks Chris, been holding off hassling Perth wreckers
till I had some feedback, cheers :)



Regards from


Mike
Perth, Western Australia
VL Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt !
Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars
http://niche.iinet.net.au


From turbofiat at hotpop.com  Wed Jul 26 09:28:26 2006
From: turbofiat at hotpop.com (James Seabolt)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:28:26 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20060726102129.01df6960@pop.hotpop.com>

At 02:13 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:
>Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal 
>combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are 
>discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump fuel 
>and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that our 
>3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from 
>compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It wil 
>reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we get 
>form the supercharger... the question comes up
>
>   If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the 
> tank for race purposes, does it give you  an advantage, or are you 
> waisting your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the 
> advantage of reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and 
> therefore a more power from the cylinder... Yes/NO


I had no luck running a knock sensor on my 1980 Fiat Spider. I ended up 
taking it off and going with a system that retards the timing as soon as 
the turbo kicks in. This car has a C/R of 8:1 and before I put the turbo 
on, the sensor said it knocks at high RPMs. There is no way this car should 
knock without a turbo.

Interesting I put some 114 octane gas in it and the meter showed less 
knock. This was before the turbo!

Someone told me if an engine has allot of piston slap will confuse a knock 
sensor and I think that was what was happening.

I replaced the head gasket a couple of years ago but the rebuilt engine 
block has about 60K to 70K miles on it. So whatever is going on in my 
engine must not be causing any problems.

I replaced the head gasket because Fiat 124 Spiders have really bad 
designed cooling systems. The radiator is lower than the cylinder head for 
one thing and if the radiator cap is not functioning properly the fan will 
kick on at a higher temperature than 190F. My fan was kicking on at 235F!

I've been meaning to mount a fan blade from a Lada Niva and bolt it 
directly to the waterpump to get rid of that troublesome electric fan. I 
just haven't done it yet because my fan spacer I made did not turn out too 
well. And I got other projects I've been working on.

The head gasket didn't blow but was leaking oil in all the usual places so 
I thought I'd replace it before it got any worse.

60K is probably the life of a head gasket on an old Fiat twin cam.





James Seabolt
Tennessee, United States
Homepage --->>> http://users.chartertn.net/jseabolt/

2003 Subaru Baja
1980 FIAT 2000 "turbo" Spider
1968 Ford Fairlane 500 (Not a Ford Galaxie!!)
1987 Yugo GV 1500cc also turbocharged
1979 Brava four door, 5 speed
1980 Brava four door, automatic, power steering








From atomic at extendwireless.net  Wed Jul 26 14:02:22 2006
From: atomic at extendwireless.net (Charles Woock)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:02:22 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
References: <20060711181341.96508.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<6.1.0.6.2.20060726102129.01df6960@pop.hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c6b0e6$07335890$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE>

Check out this site and article.  Scroll to the bottom and open the article 
on "ignition and combustion".  This will explain the answer to your 
question.  http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html  Be sure to check out the other 
articles!

Charles


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Seabolt" <turbofiat at hotpop.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas


> At 02:13 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:
>>Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal 
>>combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are 
>>discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump fuel 
>>and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that our 
>>3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from 
>>compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It wil 
>>reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we get 
>>form the supercharger... the question comes up
>>
>>   If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the 
>> tank for race purposes, does it give you  an advantage, or are you 
>> waisting your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the 
>> advantage of reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and 
>> therefore a more power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
>
>
> I had no luck running a knock sensor on my 1980 Fiat Spider. I ended up 
> taking it off and going with a system that retards the timing as soon as 
> the turbo kicks in. This car has a C/R of 8:1 and before I put the turbo 
> on, the sensor said it knocks at high RPMs. There is no way this car 
> should knock without a turbo.
>
> Interesting I put some 114 octane gas in it and the meter showed less 
> knock. This was before the turbo!
>
> Someone told me if an engine has allot of piston slap will confuse a knock 
> sensor and I think that was what was happening.
>
> I replaced the head gasket a couple of years ago but the rebuilt engine 
> block has about 60K to 70K miles on it. So whatever is going on in my 
> engine must not be causing any problems.
>
> I replaced the head gasket because Fiat 124 Spiders have really bad 
> designed cooling systems. The radiator is lower than the cylinder head for 
> one thing and if the radiator cap is not functioning properly the fan will 
> kick on at a higher temperature than 190F. My fan was kicking on at 235F!
>
> I've been meaning to mount a fan blade from a Lada Niva and bolt it 
> directly to the waterpump to get rid of that troublesome electric fan. I 
> just haven't done it yet because my fan spacer I made did not turn out too 
> well. And I got other projects I've been working on.
>
> The head gasket didn't blow but was leaking oil in all the usual places so 
> I thought I'd replace it before it got any worse.
>
> 60K is probably the life of a head gasket on an old Fiat twin cam.
>
>
>
>
>
> James Seabolt
> Tennessee, United States
> Homepage --->>> http://users.chartertn.net/jseabolt/
>
> 2003 Subaru Baja
> 1980 FIAT 2000 "turbo" Spider
> 1968 Ford Fairlane 500 (Not a Ford Galaxie!!)
> 1987 Yugo GV 1500cc also turbocharged
> 1979 Brava four door, 5 speed
> 1980 Brava four door, automatic, power steering
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 




From jimbutterfield at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 27 06:43:31 2006
From: jimbutterfield at yahoo.com (Jim Butterfield)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 04:43:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <000f01c6b0e6$07335890$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE>
Message-ID: <20060727114331.64866.qmail@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks Charles... good web page on tech stuff
   
  jim
  

Charles Woock <atomic at extendwireless.net> wrote:
  Check out this site and article. Scroll to the bottom and open the article 
on "ignition and combustion". This will explain the answer to your 
question. http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html Be sure to check out the other 
articles!

Charles


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Seabolt" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas


> At 02:13 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote:
>>Isn't there someone on this BB that has a masters degree in Internal 
>>combustion??? if not Others might know. On a local club board we are 
>>discussing higher octane race fuel ( 100/103) vs standard 98/93 pump fuel 
>>and knock. We all know how well it will reduce some knock (KR) that our 
>>3800 series 2 Supercharged ( pontiac grand prix 97-03) cars from 
>>compression ( supercharger) of the air mixutre ( which heats it)... It wil 
>>reduce the knock via more complete combustion and reducing the KR we get 
>>form the supercharger... the question comes up
>>
>> If a car has 0 knock ( detonation) and you put hight octane gas in the 
>> tank for race purposes, does it give you an advantage, or are you 
>> waisting your money??? Personally I think that even if you dont get the 
>> advantage of reduced knock your still getting a better combustion and 
>> therefore a more power from the cylinder... Yes/NO
>
>
> I had no luck running a knock sensor on my 1980 Fiat Spider. I ended up 
> taking it off and going with a system that retards the timing as soon as 
> the turbo kicks in. This car has a C/R of 8:1 and before I put the turbo 
> on, the sensor said it knocks at high RPMs. There is no way this car 
> should knock without a turbo.
>
> Interesting I put some 114 octane gas in it and the meter showed less 
> knock. This was before the turbo!
>
> Someone told me if an engine has allot of piston slap will confuse a knock 
> sensor and I think that was what was happening.
>
> I replaced the head gasket a couple of years ago but the rebuilt engine 
> block has about 60K to 70K miles on it. So whatever is going on in my 
> engine must not be causing any problems.
>
> I replaced the head gasket because Fiat 124 Spiders have really bad 
> designed cooling systems. The radiator is lower than the cylinder head for 
> one thing and if the radiator cap is not functioning properly the fan will 
> kick on at a higher temperature than 190F. My fan was kicking on at 235F!
>
> I've been meaning to mount a fan blade from a Lada Niva and bolt it 
> directly to the waterpump to get rid of that troublesome electric fan. I 
> just haven't done it yet because my fan spacer I made did not turn out too 
> well. And I got other projects I've been working on.
>
> The head gasket didn't blow but was leaking oil in all the usual places so 
> I thought I'd replace it before it got any worse.
>
> 60K is probably the life of a head gasket on an old Fiat twin cam.
>
>
>
>
>
> James Seabolt
> Tennessee, United States
> Homepage --->>> http://users.chartertn.net/jseabolt/
>
> 2003 Subaru Baja
> 1980 FIAT 2000 "turbo" Spider
> 1968 Ford Fairlane 500 (Not a Ford Galaxie!!)
> 1987 Yugo GV 1500cc also turbocharged
> 1979 Brava four door, 5 speed
> 1980 Brava four door, automatic, power steering
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 


_______________________________________________
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Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi


 __________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From spyro at f2s.com  Thu Jul 27 16:30:27 2006
From: spyro at f2s.com (Ian Molton)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:30:27 +0100
Subject: [Diy_efi] Knock retard and Race gas
In-Reply-To: <20060727114331.64866.qmail@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060727114331.64866.qmail@web36702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44C93073.3070908@f2s.com>

Jim Butterfield wrote:
> Thanks Charles... good web page on tech stuff

Agreed - great page!



From clintb at frys.com  Thu Jul 27 22:46:45 2006
From: clintb at frys.com (clintb at frys.com)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:46:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1227.66.81.35.252.1154058405.squirrel@webmail.frys.com>

I am in the process of installing fuel injection in my Toyota Landcruiser.
Does anyone have any input on the best system to install.

Thanks
Clint


www.Frys.com 


From atomic at extendwireless.net  Fri Jul 28 01:32:37 2006
From: atomic at extendwireless.net (Charles Woock)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:32:37 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] (no subject)
References: <1227.66.81.35.252.1154058405.squirrel@webmail.frys.com>
Message-ID: <001001c6b20f$9e83a900$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE>

I'm also in the process of converting from carb to EFI.  Been doing a 
tremendous amount of reading and research.  I mean a lot (DIY stuff, not off 
the shelf)!  What year, what engine, etc. are you starting with.  Do you 
have $$ to spend on a complete aftermarket setup (probably the easiest way 
to go!) or are you going to build it and tune it yourself?

Start by reading all info contained at www.customefis.org and 
http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html.  then go to www.moates.net...  Happy 
reading.

By the time you get all done buying all the DYI  ECM reprogramming stuff, 
mess around at the junkyard, spend hours researching and learning how to 
tune, You'd be better off buying one of the aftermarket systems and get it 
all in one complete package!

Charles
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <clintb at frys.com>
To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:46 PM
Subject: [Diy_efi] (no subject)


>I am in the process of installing fuel injection in my Toyota Landcruiser.
> Does anyone have any input on the best system to install.
>
> Thanks
> Clint
>
>
> www.Frys.com
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
> 




From clintb at frys.com  Fri Jul 28 12:21:17 2006
From: clintb at frys.com (clintb at frys.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <001001c6b20f$9e83a900$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE>
References: <1227.66.81.35.252.1154058405.squirrel@webmail.frys.com>
	<001001c6b20f$9e83a900$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE>
Message-ID: <1257.66.81.33.191.1154107277.squirrel@webmail.frys.com>

Charls,

It is a 1976 with the 2F engine. I will build the system myself. I have a
machine shop in my garage. I have built a manifold and adapter for the
TBI. I am in the process of converting the distributor. I have done lots
of research but you cant get enough. The problem with a lot of the
commercial sites they have something to sell. So most of times you only
get half truths. They would rather you by their product.


Thanks for your response. If I would have received this months ago. I
probably would have bought an after market FI. But the after market
products adapt to the stock manifold. Not a well designed manifold. If you
have questions on adapters for the landcruiser. I can help with cheap
fixes.

Thanks again
Clint

> I'm also in the process of converting from carb to EFI.  Been doing a
> tremendous amount of reading and research.  I mean a lot (DIY stuff, not
> off
> the shelf)!  What year, what engine, etc. are you starting with.  Do you
> have $$ to spend on a complete aftermarket setup (probably the easiest way
> to go!) or are you going to build it and tune it yourself?
>
> Start by reading all info contained at www.customefis.org and
> http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html.  then go to www.moates.net...  Happy
> reading.
>
> By the time you get all done buying all the DYI  ECM reprogramming stuff,
> mess around at the junkyard, spend hours researching and learning how to
> tune, You'd be better off buying one of the aftermarket systems and get it
> all in one complete package!
>
> Charles
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <clintb at frys.com>
> To: <diy_efi at diy-efi.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 10:46 PM
> Subject: [Diy_efi] (no subject)
>
>
>>I am in the process of installing fuel injection in my Toyota
>> Landcruiser.
>> Does anyone have any input on the best system to install.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Clint
>>
>>
>> www.Frys.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Diy_efi mailing list
>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
>> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>



www.Frys.com 


From Steve.Ravet at arm.com  Fri Jul 28 13:25:58 2006
From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:25:58 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] (no subject)
Message-ID: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301153B52@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>

> >>I am in the process of installing fuel injection in my Toyota  
> >>Landcruiser.
> >> Does anyone have any input on the best system to install.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Clint

If you don't already know about Megasquirt then look into it.  It's
affordable and there's a huge user community for it.

--steve

-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium.  Thank you.



From clintb at frys.com  Fri Jul 28 22:56:34 2006
From: clintb at frys.com (clintb at frys.com)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:56:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301153B52@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
References: <DBB2E4C4173F1749B6C743414061178301153B52@NASDAQ.usa.Arm.com>
Message-ID: <1093.66.81.32.225.1154145394.squirrel@webmail.frys.com>

Steve,

Thanks for the information.

Clint


>> >>I am in the process of installing fuel injection in my Toyota
>> >>Landcruiser.
>> >> Does anyone have any input on the best system to install.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> Clint
>
> If you don't already know about Megasquirt then look into it.  It's
> affordable and there's a huge user community for it.
>
> --steve
>
> -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
> confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
> contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
> information in any medium.  Thank you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Diy_efi mailing list
> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org
> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi
> Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi
>
>



www.Frys.com 


From juha.niinikoski at sitecno.fi  Sat Jul 29 17:17:07 2006
From: juha.niinikoski at sitecno.fi (Juha Niinikoski)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 01:17:07 +0300
Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: Diy_efi Digest, Vol 17, Issue 26
In-Reply-To: <20060729170047.BIMH15296.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@nitro.got-boost.net>
References: <20060729170047.BIMH15296.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi@nitro.got-boost.net>
Message-ID: <44CBDE63.2030601@sitecno.fi>

Hello Clint,
few years ago I did efi conversion for my off road Range Rover. I used 
GM parts and GM 1227747 computer.  Project is documented here.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/Rover/Rover.htm

I converted GM EST distributor to fit Rover engine. This was maybe the 
most challenging part of the project.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/Rover/distributors2.jpg

Do you have pictures about your project?

Juha

>Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
>From: clintb at frys.com
>Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] (no subject)
>To: "Charles Woock" <atomic at extendwireless.net>, diy_efi at diy-efi.org
>Message-ID: <1257.66.81.33.191.1154107277.squirrel at webmail.frys.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Charls,
>
>It is a 1976 with the 2F engine. I will build the system myself. I have a
>machine shop in my garage. I have built a manifold and adapter for the
>TBI. I am in the process of converting the distributor. I have done lots
>of research but you cant get enough. The problem with a lot of the
>commercial sites they have something to sell. So most of times you only
>get half truths. They would rather you by their product.
>
>
>Thanks for your response. If I would have received this months ago. I
>probably would have bought an after market FI. But the after market
>products adapt to the stock manifold. Not a well designed manifold. If you
>have questions on adapters for the landcruiser. I can help with cheap
>fixes.
>
>Thanks again
>Clint
>
>  
>



From davida1 at hiwaay.net  Sat Jul 29 17:41:24 2006
From: davida1 at hiwaay.net (David Allen)
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:41:24 -0500
Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: +AFs-Diy+AF8-efi+AF0- Re: Diy+AF8-efi Digest, Vol 17,
	Issue 26
References: +ADw-20060729170047.BIMH15296.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi+AEA-nitro.got-boost.net+AD4-
	+ADw-44CBDE63.2030601+AEA-sitecno.fi+AD4-
Message-ID: <003501c6b360$20d3c6a0$0600a8c0@yancey.com>

Hey, I really like your Range Rover IFI conversion.  Thanks for sharing it with us+ACE-
David


----- Original Message ----- 
From: +ACI-Juha Niinikoski+ACI- +ADw-juha.niinikoski+AEA-sitecno.fi+AD4-
To: +ADw-diy+AF8-efi+AEA-diy-efi.org+AD4-
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 5:17 PM
Subject: +AFs-Diy+AF8-efi+AF0- Re: Diy+AF8-efi Digest, Vol 17, Issue 26


+AD4- Hello Clint,
+AD4- few years ago I did efi conversion for my off road Range Rover. I used 
+AD4- GM parts and GM 1227747 computer.  Project is documented here.
+AD4- 
+AD4- http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/Rover/Rover.htm
+AD4- 
+AD4- I converted GM EST distributor to fit Rover engine. This was maybe the 
+AD4- most challenging part of the project.
+AD4- 
+AD4- http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/Rover/distributors2.jpg
+AD4- 
+AD4- Do you have pictures about your project?
+AD4- 
+AD4- Juha
+AD4- 
+AD4APg-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
+AD4APg-From: clintb+AEA-frys.com
+AD4APg-Subject: Re: +AFs-Diy+AF8-efi+AF0- (no subject)
+AD4APg-To: +ACI-Charles Woock+ACI- +ADw-atomic+AEA-extendwireless.net+AD4-, diy+AF8-efi+AEA-diy-efi.org
+AD4APg-Message-ID: +ADw-1257.66.81.33.191.1154107277.squirrel+AEA-webmail.frys.com+AD4-
+AD4APg-Content-Type: text/plain+ADs-charset+AD0-iso-8859-1
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-Charls,
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-It is a 1976 with the 2F engine. I will build the system myself. I have a
+AD4APg-machine shop in my garage. I have built a manifold and adapter for the
+AD4APg-TBI. I am in the process of converting the distributor. I have done lots
+AD4APg-of research but you cant get enough. The problem with a lot of the
+AD4APg-commercial sites they have something to sell. So most of times you only
+AD4APg-get half truths. They would rather you by their product.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-Thanks for your response. If I would have received this months ago. I
+AD4APg-probably would have bought an after market FI. But the after market
+AD4APg-products adapt to the stock manifold. Not a well designed manifold. If you
+AD4APg-have questions on adapters for the landcruiser. I can help with cheap
+AD4APg-fixes.
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-Thanks again
+AD4APg-Clint
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg-  
+AD4APg-
+AD4- 
+AD4- +AF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXwBfAF8AXw-
+AD4- Diy+AF8-efi mailing list
+AD4- Diy+AF8-efi+AEA-diy-efi.org
+AD4- Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy+AF8-efi
+AD4- Main WWW page:  http://www.diy-efi.org/diy+AF8-efi
+AD4-


From efi at dyakron.com  Sun Jul 30 17:50:11 2006
From: efi at dyakron.com (Mike V)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:50:11 -0400
Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: +AFs-Diy+AF8-efi+AF0- Re: Diy+AF8-efi
	Digest, Vol 17, Issue 26
In-Reply-To: <003501c6b360$20d3c6a0$0600a8c0@yancey.com>
References: <+ADw-20060729170047.BIMH15296.fep02-app.kolumbus.fi+AEA-nitro.got-boost.net+AD4-
	+ADw-44CBDE63.2030601+AEA-sitecno.fi+AD4->
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20060730184919.00b83840@dyakron.com>

Yep, very interesting.  That is the first roof mounted ECM I've seen.
The rest was very informative as well.
MV

At 05:41 PM 7/29/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey, I really like your Range Rover IFI conversion.  Thanks for sharing it 
>with us+ACE-
>David
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: +ACI-Juha Niinikoski+ACI- +ADw-juha.niinikoski+AEA-sitecno.fi+AD4-
>To: +ADw-diy+AF8-efi+AEA-diy-efi.org+AD4-
>Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 5:17 PM
>Subject: +AFs-Diy+AF8-efi+AF0- Re: Diy+AF8-efi Digest, Vol 17, Issue 26
>
>
>+AD4- Hello Clint,
>+AD4- few years ago I did efi conversion for my off road Range Rover. I used
>+AD4- GM parts and GM 1227747 computer.  Project is documented here.
>+AD4-
>+AD4- http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/Rover/Rover.htm
>+AD4-
>+AD4- I converted GM EST distributor to fit Rover engine. This was maybe the
>+AD4- most challenging part of the project.
>+AD4-
>+AD4- http://www.kolumbus.fi/juha.niinikoski/Rover/distributors2.jpg
>+AD4-
>+AD4- Do you have pictures about your project?
>+AD4-
>+AD4- Juha
>+AD4-



From jimbutterfield at yahoo.com  Sun Jul 30 18:23:05 2006
From: jimbutterfield at yahoo.com (Jim Butterfield)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:23:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Diy_efi] wire and terminal suppliers
Message-ID: <20060730232305.9005.qmail@web36715.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello all,
  Im going to be doing another swap any good suppliers of 18-20g wire in multiple colors... especially GM green, pink blue etc... also the termanials that  late model gm connectors use???? 
   
  thx
  jim

 		
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