From torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu Sun Oct 1 10:14:21 2006 From: torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F6rn_Forsman?=) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 17:14:21 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] Key-On Power for 7730 In-Reply-To: <451F43FA.2040400@cythera.net> References: <004901c6e4fa$c89988e0$6501a8c0@davis> <451F43FA.2040400@cythera.net> Message-ID: <451FDB4D.3000104@gengas.nu> Regarding current consumption of ignition coils, so do coils intended for old breaker-point ignition systems operate at about amps. The breaker points would wear too fast at higher currents. Some coils limit the current by themselves, as the primary winding has enough resistance (around 3 ohms for a 12 V system). Other coils have less resistance in the primary winding (often 1-1.5 ohms) and such coils always have an external ballast resistor when they are used in a breaker point system. In some cars, the resistor might be implemented as a resistance wire in the cable harness. There are two reasons for having an external ballast resistor: First, it will give less power dissipation and less heat in the ignition coil, giving it a longer life (and possibly smaller dimensions). And second, there is the possibility to short out the ballast resistor to facilitate cold starting. On the other hand, electronic ignition systems (from about 1980 on) usually has a current limiting power stage in the ignition module. There, the current is usually 5 - 8 A and determined solely by the ignition module. Such ignition coils usually have a very low primary resistance (0.2 - 1,0 ohms) and should NEVER be used for breaker point systems. Some early electronic ignition systems from the 70's use similar ignition coils and ballast resistors as the breaker point systems have. A drawback of connecting a backward diode across a relay or solenoid coil is that it in some cases will delay turn-off of the relay. Also, the diode would blow up if the control voltage arrives with wrong polarity. A better way is connecting an R-C link across the coil. The resistor should be approximately the same value as the DC resistance of the relay coil and the capacitor usually between 0.1 microfarad and a few microfarads. The bigger relay, the bigger capacitor. Best regards Torbj?rn Forsman Don Sauman wrote: > Not absolutely certain of your wiring arrangement, but it is usual to > put a reverse biased diode across relay coils to suppress back-EMF. > > Don > > Clair Davis wrote: > >> Hehehe... I've had more cars with starter buttons than I care to think >> about. It's one of those little items that would be used by my wife or >> mother (Dad's a victim, too) as evidence that we'd hacked on a car... >> Agreed though on the cool factor of one of the big S-2000 buttons. If I >> were to get one of those, I'd check the Honda dealer first, and I'm sure >> there are some aftermarket solutions, too. >> >> Got my wiring done today. I came this >< close to using a relay to power >> the coil with power to the small side of the relay coming from the two >> key >> switches. Checking again, the relay would not have powered off >> through the >> key operation, but using a 9V battery to run things test, I "noticed" >> a BIG >> voltage spike when I broke the circuit. I had to be holding the relay a >> certain way to do it, but I suspect it was just like an ignition coil. I >> can't swear that it would have had any affect on the ECM, but I didn't >> want >> to risk it. It really felt like a good "tingle" you get when brushing up >> too close to a bare 120V house wire. Hot enough to feel through my >> finger, >> and this from a little 9V battery. >> >> Not quite off-topic, how much current does a typical "oil can" coil >> draw on >> the (+) terminal? This is a Jacobs Energy Coil steel cylinder oil-filled >> unit if that makes a difference. OEM has 18ga wires running power to the >> coil, so I'm guessing those will continue to be fine. >> >> Clair >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Boucher" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:28 PM >> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Key-On Power for 7730 >> >> >> >> >>> How about this idea. Install a start button that is energized when the >>> >> >> key >> >> >>> is in the on position. Turn key to on, press starter button. >>> >>> That's kinda cool. I like starter buttons. >>> >>> The Honda S2000 has one and a couple of other high end, late model cars. >>> Probably not something you would casually find in a a low end junkyard. >>> >>> But it sounds like you don't have problem other than finding the key. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >>> Behalf Of Clair Davis >>> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:48 PM >>> To: Rick McLeod; diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Key-On Power for 7730 >>> >>> >>> This, folks, appears to be true here, too. I basically made a little >>> test >>> light circuit to see if there was an obvious break in the circuit >>> between >>> IGN-1 and IGN-2. Using an 1187 dash light, I wired I1 and I2 (and ACC >>> >> >> just >> >> >>> for fun) together with a 9V battery. I could not see any dimming of the >>> bulb between run and start, regardless of how fast or slow I turned the >>> >> >> key. >> >> >>> Turning the key was the big problem, as I had to disassemble the dang >>> lock >>> tumbler to make the motion consistent. Kind of hated to do that, as >>> 1969 >>> ignition cylinders are unique (last year for dash-mounting for Mopar) >>> but >>> I've got NO idea where the key for that sucker is. Not much of a >>> theft-deterrent at this point. >>> >>> Thanks, Rick, Tom, Tim, Will, and Lee for all the guidance. Maybe I'll >>> finally get these last two wires done this weekend! >>> >>> Clair >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Rick McLeod" >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Key-On Power for 7730 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Good advise, but every ignition I've ever seen though has been MBB, not >>>> >>> >>> BBM. (Make Before Break vs. Break Before Make) >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Diy_efi mailing list >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Diy_efi mailing list >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> >> > From clair.davis at charter.net Sun Oct 1 22:28:30 2006 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 22:28:30 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Key-On Power for 7730 References: <004901c6e4fa$c89988e0$6501a8c0@davis><451F43FA.2040400@cythera.net> <451FDB4D.3000104@gengas.nu> Message-ID: <005e01c6e5d2$d54687e0$6501a8c0@davis> For this instance, although the car started life with a breaker-point ignition, that all went away with the original 6-cylinder engine. Converted to electronic during the engine swap back in 1994, and the ignition is now being controlled by an 8-pin unit. I have (for the time being) decided to not convert over to the HEI divorced coil setup, after reading here http://www.corvetteforum.net/c4/doctorj/heicoilinfo.htm that my existing coil works well with an HEI system. Scroll to the bottom for the wrap up... I *THINK* this coil has about 2.5ohm resistance across the terminals, but I didn't make a point of checking that, just something I noticed while poking around today. If the 8-pin unit will be controlling the coil current to 5-8ohm, I don't think I have anything to worry about. I love being able to keep checking things off the list! Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torbj?rn Forsman" To: ; Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Key-On Power for 7730 > Regarding current consumption of ignition coils, so do coils intended > for old breaker-point ignition systems operate at about amps. The > breaker points would wear too fast at higher currents. > Some coils limit the current by themselves, as the primary winding has > enough resistance (around 3 ohms for a 12 V system). Other coils have > less resistance in the primary winding (often 1-1.5 ohms) and such coils > always have an external ballast resistor when they are used in a breaker > point system. In some cars, the resistor might be implemented as a > resistance wire in the cable harness. There are two reasons for having > an external ballast resistor: First, it will give less power dissipation > and less heat in the ignition coil, giving it a longer life (and > possibly smaller dimensions). And second, there is the possibility to > short out the ballast resistor to facilitate cold starting. > > On the other hand, electronic ignition systems (from about 1980 on) > usually has a current limiting power stage in the ignition module. > There, the current is usually 5 - 8 A and determined solely by the > ignition module. Such ignition coils usually have a very low primary > resistance (0.2 - 1,0 ohms) and should NEVER be used for breaker point > systems. > > Some early electronic ignition systems from the 70's use similar > ignition coils and ballast resistors as the breaker point systems have. > > A drawback of connecting a backward diode across a relay or solenoid > coil is that it in some cases will delay turn-off of the relay. Also, > the diode would blow up if the control voltage arrives with wrong polarity. > A better way is connecting an R-C link across the coil. The resistor > should be approximately the same value as the DC resistance of the relay > coil and the capacitor usually between 0.1 microfarad and a few > microfarads. The bigger relay, the bigger capacitor. > > Best regards > > Torbj?rn Forsman > > Don Sauman wrote: > > Not absolutely certain of your wiring arrangement, but it is usual to > > put a reverse biased diode across relay coils to suppress back-EMF. > > > > Don > > > > Clair Davis wrote: > > > >> Hehehe... I've had more cars with starter buttons than I care to think > >> about. It's one of those little items that would be used by my wife or > >> mother (Dad's a victim, too) as evidence that we'd hacked on a car... > >> Agreed though on the cool factor of one of the big S-2000 buttons. If I > >> were to get one of those, I'd check the Honda dealer first, and I'm sure > >> there are some aftermarket solutions, too. > >> > >> Got my wiring done today. I came this >< close to using a relay to power > >> the coil with power to the small side of the relay coming from the two > >> key > >> switches. Checking again, the relay would not have powered off > >> through the > >> key operation, but using a 9V battery to run things test, I "noticed" > >> a BIG > >> voltage spike when I broke the circuit. I had to be holding the relay a > >> certain way to do it, but I suspect it was just like an ignition coil. I > >> can't swear that it would have had any affect on the ECM, but I didn't > >> want > >> to risk it. It really felt like a good "tingle" you get when brushing up > >> too close to a bare 120V house wire. Hot enough to feel through my > >> finger, > >> and this from a little 9V battery. > >> > >> Not quite off-topic, how much current does a typical "oil can" coil > >> draw on > >> the (+) terminal? This is a Jacobs Energy Coil steel cylinder oil-filled > >> unit if that makes a difference. OEM has 18ga wires running power to the > >> coil, so I'm guessing those will continue to be fine. > >> > >> Clair > >> From powerjet at iafrica.com Wed Oct 4 01:31:34 2006 From: powerjet at iafrica.com (Doug Allison) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 08:31:34 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] test Message-ID: <005301c6e77e$bf150840$0300a8c0@dougjp3sp3f2sn> please ignore From donsauman at cythera.net Wed Oct 4 06:54:38 2006 From: donsauman at cythera.net (Don Sauman) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 19:54:38 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] test In-Reply-To: <005301c6e77e$bf150840$0300a8c0@dougjp3sp3f2sn> References: <005301c6e77e$bf150840$0300a8c0@dougjp3sp3f2sn> Message-ID: <4523A0FE.400@cythera.net> Okay Sorry couldn't help my self. Don Doug Allison wrote: >please ignore >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > -- Don Sauman Cythera Communication 35 Asteroid Way Carlisle 6101 Western Australia P: 08 9361 0337 F: 08 9361 0581 M: 0427 389 547 From benof1987 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 05:02:21 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 20:02:21 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning Message-ID: Hi people, I'm just trying to find out whether it is possible to tune the ford EEC-V computers, as found in the 1994-2002 Ford Falcons. I have heard that it is possible using a special expander board, but I am unsure how this works. I have also heard of a flash tuner being released to alter maps via the diagnostics port, but the companies that do this charge way too much. Does anyone know how this is done and whether or not it is possible for the diy-er to do this themselves? and the last EEC-V question: Do the map sensors for these falcons output a voltage or a frequency? I have heard both, and am a little confused. thanks Ben _________________________________________________________________ See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referral=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&page=killers From benof1987 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 05:14:58 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 20:14:58 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning Message-ID: Ok another question about tuning an old manufacturers computer... The first of the fuel injection systems on the Mitsubishi Magna's were attached to the FWD version of the ASTRON II engine, and I also believe that they had that awful Karman-Vortex air-flow meter with a frequency output instead of a voltage. The first series of questions are: Can these computers be remapped? And if they can, how is it done? I have heard of various early computers using the EPROM chips, would they use this? And if they do, does anyone possess a program that can convert the file from the eprom dump into a magageable form (such as the TunerCat for GM computers)? And the last question is simple, has anyone heard of an interceptor being successfully used on this computer? the reason behind asking all of this: A friend is building an early RWD Lancer, with a turbocharged 2.6L Astron engine, and has an injected magna that he is putting the turbo kit on first, just to make sure everything runs. thanks Ben _________________________________________________________________ Thousands of jobs, millions of opportunities at seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=757263760&_r=Hotmail_EndText_Oct06&_m=EXT From A6intruder at myo-p.com Sun Oct 8 09:10:19 2006 From: A6intruder at myo-p.com (Daniel Nicoson) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 10:10:19 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ben, The lowest cost way to tune EEC-V that I am aware of is the Moates hardware at www.moates.net I use the TwEECer on my EEC-IV. This device works on EEC-V too. www.tweecer.com I'm not sure about the map sensors. I am used to MAF sensors, they use a 0-5volt signal. Does your EEC-V use a map? Dan Nicoson -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Ben P Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:02 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning Hi people, I'm just trying to find out whether it is possible to tune the ford EEC-V computers, as found in the 1994-2002 Ford Falcons. I have heard that it is possible using a special expander board, but I am unsure how this works. I have also heard of a flash tuner being released to alter maps via the diagnostics port, but the companies that do this charge way too much. Does anyone know how this is done and whether or not it is possible for the diy-er to do this themselves? and the last EEC-V question: Do the map sensors for these falcons output a voltage or a frequency? I have heard both, and am a little confused. thanks Ben _________________________________________________________________ See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referr al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&pa ge=killers _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From airhawk at hawkgt.net Sun Oct 8 10:56:10 2006 From: airhawk at hawkgt.net (The AirHawk) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 10:56:10 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning References: Message-ID: <001d01c6eaf2$4ae71040$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> > Ok another question about tuning an old manufacturers computer... > > The first of the fuel injection systems on the Mitsubishi Magna's were attached to the FWD version > of the ASTRON II engine, and I also believe that they had that awful Karman-Vortex air-flow meter > with a frequency output instead of a voltage. > > The first series of questions are: > > Can these computers be remapped? And if they can, how is it done? Try here: http://dsm-ecu.com/ Or here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-ecu/ If your Magna uses the OBDI-type eprom ECU, as used in '90-'94 DSMs (Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser)with the 4G63 engine, you'll probably find your answer. If your ECU is different, they might be able to point you in the correct direction. There are a LOT of very knowledgeable individuals on the yahoo-group message board. A word of warning: the yahoo-group will be most helpful in getting you going, but they have little tolerance for "Hey somebody send me a file!" or "Would somebody code this so I can install this widget on my car" kind of "requests". They'll help you, help yourself. (not that I think you'll do that, I just wanted to put out a general warning about it) > I have heard of various early computers using the EPROM chips, would they use this? And if they > do, does anyone possess a program that can convert the file from the eprom dump into a magageable > form (such as the TunerCat for GM computers)? There are a few programs tailored for the DSM-ECU on the yahoo-groups site. You'll have to join for more details. > And the last question is simple, has anyone heard of an interceptor being successfully used on > this computer? > > the reason behind asking all of this: A friend is building an early RWD Lancer, with a > turbocharged 2.6L Astron engine, and has an injected magna that he is putting the turbo kit on > first, just to make sure everything runs. Sorry, interceptor? Are you talking of an auxilliary fueling computer? > thanks > Ben N.P. -Scott C. From steve at donegan.org Sun Oct 8 11:05:35 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 09:05:35 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning In-Reply-To: <001d01c6eaf2$4ae71040$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> References: <001d01c6eaf2$4ae71040$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> Message-ID: <1160323535.2961.5.camel@perky.donegan.org> Well, Interceptor is a generic term used by the Oz folks mostly - devices which intercept signals from car sensors, apply some logic to them and present the changed signals to the original car EMC. The one I designed is here: https://www.microvore.com/interceptor.jpg If the MAF does frequency output my board may well do the trick - it also has analog inputs but no analog outputs at present. On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 10:56 -0500, The AirHawk wrote: > > Ok another question about tuning an old manufacturers computer... > > > > The first of the fuel injection systems on the Mitsubishi Magna's were attached to the FWD version > > of the ASTRON II engine, and I also believe that they had that awful Karman-Vortex air-flow meter > > with a frequency output instead of a voltage. > > > > The first series of questions are: > > > > Can these computers be remapped? And if they can, how is it done? > > Try here: > http://dsm-ecu.com/ > Or here: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-ecu/ > > If your Magna uses the OBDI-type eprom ECU, as used in '90-'94 DSMs (Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi > Eclipse, Plymouth Laser)with the 4G63 engine, you'll probably find your answer. If your ECU is > different, they might be able to point you in the correct direction. There are a LOT of very > knowledgeable individuals on the yahoo-group message board. > > A word of warning: the yahoo-group will be most helpful in getting you going, but they have little > tolerance for "Hey somebody send me a file!" or "Would somebody code this so I can install this > widget on my car" kind of "requests". They'll help you, help yourself. (not that I think you'll do > that, I just wanted to put out a general warning about it) > > > I have heard of various early computers using the EPROM chips, would they use this? And if they > > do, does anyone possess a program that can convert the file from the eprom dump into a magageable > > form (such as the TunerCat for GM computers)? > > There are a few programs tailored for the DSM-ECU on the yahoo-groups site. You'll have to join for > more details. > > > And the last question is simple, has anyone heard of an interceptor being successfully used on > > this computer? > > > > the reason behind asking all of this: A friend is building an early RWD Lancer, with a > > turbocharged 2.6L Astron engine, and has an injected magna that he is putting the turbo kit on > > first, just to make sure everything runs. > > Sorry, interceptor? Are you talking of an auxilliary fueling computer? > > > thanks > > Ben > > N.P. > > -Scott C. > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From airhawk at hawkgt.net Sun Oct 8 11:42:55 2006 From: airhawk at hawkgt.net (The AirHawk) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 11:42:55 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning References: <001d01c6eaf2$4ae71040$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> <1160323535.2961.5.camel@perky.donegan.org> Message-ID: <003601c6eaf8$d23c3d30$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> > Well, Interceptor is a generic term used by the Oz folks mostly - > devices which intercept signals from car sensors, apply some logic to > them and present the changed signals to the original car EMC. The one I > designed is here: https://www.microvore.com/interceptor.jpg > > If the MAF does frequency output my board may well do the trick - it > also has analog inputs but no analog outputs at present. Yes, that's pretty-much what I thought it was. I saw your gizmo a while back when you posted about it. Clever. The Mitsu Karmaan-Vortex MAS is a freq-output device; turndown range is a few-hundred hz to about 3khz, low to high flow (depending on unit). Has an integral baro and temp sensor on the inlet side, for ambient air-density compensation. There is a small company that makes an analog-to-freq box for using a GM MAF in place of the Mitsu Karmaan sensor, mostly for those who want to run the sensor close to the throttle-body, and dump the compressor discharge to atmosphere on closed-throttle (causes a bit of a richness problem with the stock Mitsu setup when you do that). From jsnord at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 11:51:46 2006 From: jsnord at hotmail.com (JS Nord) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 09:51:46 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? References: Message-ID: Hello, New arriver to the list here. Thanks for having me - great resource. My interest is in being able to modify the fuel and timing maps for used in the BMW E34 535i, Bosch motronic version 1.3. I'd like to be able to do to help tune out a modified engine that includes a displacement increase and cam shaft change (no forced induction) I'm curious if anyone on the list has experiance in understanding the mapping structure associated with this version of Motronic. I'm also curious if anyone has experiance in using this tool from Atlantis software that seems to have the ability to edit the motronic tables http://www.atlantisconsultingllc.com/atlantis.php?page=Motronic%20Editor Best case would be someone who's used this tool on the BMW 1.3 motronic and has the offsets for all the tables with some real world experiance on how well this tool works. Anyone have any thoughts on past discussions or projects in this area that might help me get started? Cheers! Jeff 90 BMW 535i From steve at donegan.org Sun Oct 8 11:58:06 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 09:58:06 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning In-Reply-To: <003601c6eaf8$d23c3d30$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> References: <001d01c6eaf2$4ae71040$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> <1160323535.2961.5.camel@perky.donegan.org> <003601c6eaf8$d23c3d30$0202a8c0@MajorDisaster> Message-ID: <1160326686.2961.11.camel@perky.donegan.org> GM MAF frequencies are different than what you describe for the vehicle you are working on - they go to 10k HZ on the really large ones used on current year Corvettes. My unit I believe tops out sub 8k HZ - haven't the car that wide open yet :-) The hardware I designed could likely be used for your application - the programming would be up to you - it's a 20 MIPS microcontroller with adequate performance for you to do whatever you'd want to. On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 11:42 -0500, The AirHawk wrote: > > Well, Interceptor is a generic term used by the Oz folks mostly - > > devices which intercept signals from car sensors, apply some logic to > > them and present the changed signals to the original car EMC. The one I > > designed is here: https://www.microvore.com/interceptor.jpg > > > > If the MAF does frequency output my board may well do the trick - it > > also has analog inputs but no analog outputs at present. > > Yes, that's pretty-much what I thought it was. I saw your gizmo a while back when you posted about > it. Clever. > > The Mitsu Karmaan-Vortex MAS is a freq-output device; turndown range is a few-hundred hz to about > 3khz, low to high flow (depending on unit). Has an integral baro and temp sensor on the inlet side, > for ambient air-density compensation. > > There is a small company that makes an analog-to-freq box for using a GM MAF in place of the Mitsu > Karmaan sensor, mostly for those who want to run the sensor close to the throttle-body, and dump the > compressor discharge to atmosphere on closed-throttle (causes a bit of a richness problem with the > stock Mitsu setup when you do that). > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From benof1987 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 20:41:07 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:41:07 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning In-Reply-To: <1160323535.2961.5.camel@perky.donegan.org> Message-ID: a question about the board... does it work anything like the silicon ship Digital Fuel Adjuster? http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2418/article.html that kit has 128 steps of adjustment, with each 'steo' being assigned a different voltage and having a different, pre-programmed, adjustment value. the adjustment is a 'voltage in + adjustment value = voltage out'. Is yours like that (but with frequency)? thanks Ben >From: "Steven P. Donegan" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning >Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 09:05:35 -0700 > >Well, Interceptor is a generic term used by the Oz folks mostly - >devices which intercept signals from car sensors, apply some logic to >them and present the changed signals to the original car EMC. The one I >designed is here: https://www.microvore.com/interceptor.jpg > >If the MAF does frequency output my board may well do the trick - it >also has analog inputs but no analog outputs at present. > >On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 10:56 -0500, The AirHawk wrote: > > > Ok another question about tuning an old manufacturers computer... > > > > > > The first of the fuel injection systems on the Mitsubishi Magna's were >attached to the FWD version > > > of the ASTRON II engine, and I also believe that they had that awful >Karman-Vortex air-flow meter > > > with a frequency output instead of a voltage. > > > > > > The first series of questions are: > > > > > > Can these computers be remapped? And if they can, how is it done? > > > > Try here: > > http://dsm-ecu.com/ > > Or here: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-ecu/ > > > > If your Magna uses the OBDI-type eprom ECU, as used in '90-'94 DSMs >(Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi > > Eclipse, Plymouth Laser)with the 4G63 engine, you'll probably find your >answer. If your ECU is > > different, they might be able to point you in the correct direction. >There are a LOT of very > > knowledgeable individuals on the yahoo-group message board. > > > > A word of warning: the yahoo-group will be most helpful in getting you >going, but they have little > > tolerance for "Hey somebody send me a file!" or "Would somebody code >this so I can install this > > widget on my car" kind of "requests". They'll help you, help yourself. >(not that I think you'll do > > that, I just wanted to put out a general warning about it) > > > > > I have heard of various early computers using the EPROM chips, would >they use this? And if they > > > do, does anyone possess a program that can convert the file from the >eprom dump into a magageable > > > form (such as the TunerCat for GM computers)? > > > > There are a few programs tailored for the DSM-ECU on the yahoo-groups >site. You'll have to join for > > more details. > > > > > And the last question is simple, has anyone heard of an interceptor >being successfully used on > > > this computer? > > > > > > the reason behind asking all of this: A friend is building an early >RWD Lancer, with a > > > turbocharged 2.6L Astron engine, and has an injected magna that he is >putting the turbo kit on > > > first, just to make sure everything runs. > > > > Sorry, interceptor? Are you talking of an auxilliary fueling computer? > > > > > thanks > > > Ben > > > > N.P. > > > > -Scott C. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >-- >"Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new >criminals."-- John Tandervold > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ Research and compare new cars side by side at carpoint.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F833884&_t=54321&_r=hotmail_endtext&_m=EXT From clair.davis at charter.net Sun Oct 8 20:47:48 2006 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 20:47:48 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Message-ID: <002601c6eb44$ef433360$6501a8c0@davis> Got everything to the point that I could try to fire the old Plymouth up today. Everything SEEMS to work, except the injectors. No gas smell in the tail pipes or intake, no flashing on the noid light, I'm guessing the injectors aren't injecting. Here's what I know: - #1 plug is firing on the early side of TDC - spark is nice and regular (according to the timing light) - there's over 40psi of fuel pressure at the regulator - there's fuel in the rails - the fuel pump relay is doing it's thing - no fuses appear to be blown - ECM is grounded to the engine block, and engine/chassis grounds are good Here's what I don't know: - does the ECM case need to be grounded? (assuming not) I haven't hit my 1990 Camaro FSM yet, but I figured I'd better throw this out to the masses anyway. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on? I really think everything is pretty solid, from a wiring standpoint, and fuel is obviously not an issue (other than the small leak at the pump, and the fact that it's not getting in to the combustion chambers). Any help would be greatly appreciated! Clair From clair.davis at charter.net Sun Oct 8 20:51:55 2006 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 20:51:55 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... References: <002601c6eb44$ef433360$6501a8c0@davis> Message-ID: <002c01c6eb45$83b229c0$6501a8c0@davis> DOH... perhaps I should mention that this is using a GM '7730 ECM... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clair Davis" To: "diy_efi" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:47 PM Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > Got everything to the point that I could try to fire the old Plymouth up > today. Everything SEEMS to work, except the injectors. No gas smell in the > tail pipes or intake, no flashing on the noid light, I'm guessing the > injectors aren't injecting. > > Here's what I know: > - #1 plug is firing on the early side of TDC > - spark is nice and regular (according to the timing light) > - there's over 40psi of fuel pressure at the regulator > - there's fuel in the rails > - the fuel pump relay is doing it's thing > - no fuses appear to be blown > - ECM is grounded to the engine block, and engine/chassis grounds are good > > Here's what I don't know: > - does the ECM case need to be grounded? (assuming not) > > I haven't hit my 1990 Camaro FSM yet, but I figured I'd better throw this > out to the masses anyway. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on? I > really think everything is pretty solid, from a wiring standpoint, and fuel > is obviously not an issue (other than the small leak at the pump, and the > fact that it's not getting in to the combustion chambers). > > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > > Clair > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From atomic at extendwireless.net Sun Oct 8 21:57:35 2006 From: atomic at extendwireless.net (Charles Woock) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:57:35 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... References: <002601c6eb44$ef433360$6501a8c0@davis> <002c01c6eb45$83b229c0$6501a8c0@davis> Message-ID: <002201c6eb4e$aceff020$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> Power goes from the fuse to the injectors. The ecm provides the ground. There is also a specific injector ground wire that comes out of the ecm. I'm not sure exactly about grounding the ecm case but I did. Just to make sure. If you have an old injector, you could plug it into the harness to check... I know this is just the basics but hopefully it helps. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clair Davis" To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > DOH... perhaps I should mention that this is using a GM '7730 ECM... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clair Davis" > To: "diy_efi" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:47 PM > Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > >> Got everything to the point that I could try to fire the old Plymouth up >> today. Everything SEEMS to work, except the injectors. No gas smell in > the >> tail pipes or intake, no flashing on the noid light, I'm guessing the >> injectors aren't injecting. >> >> Here's what I know: >> - #1 plug is firing on the early side of TDC >> - spark is nice and regular (according to the timing light) >> - there's over 40psi of fuel pressure at the regulator >> - there's fuel in the rails >> - the fuel pump relay is doing it's thing >> - no fuses appear to be blown >> - ECM is grounded to the engine block, and engine/chassis grounds are >> good >> >> Here's what I don't know: >> - does the ECM case need to be grounded? (assuming not) >> >> I haven't hit my 1990 Camaro FSM yet, but I figured I'd better throw this >> out to the masses anyway. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on? I >> really think everything is pretty solid, from a wiring standpoint, and > fuel >> is obviously not an issue (other than the small leak at the pump, and the >> fact that it's not getting in to the combustion chambers). >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> >> Clair >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From atomic at extendwireless.net Sun Oct 8 22:00:52 2006 From: atomic at extendwireless.net (Charles Woock) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 22:00:52 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... References: <002601c6eb44$ef433360$6501a8c0@davis> <002c01c6eb45$83b229c0$6501a8c0@davis> Message-ID: <002d01c6eb4f$21dfd9e0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> Did you look at your bin to what you have for cranking fuel? Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clair Davis" To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > DOH... perhaps I should mention that this is using a GM '7730 ECM... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clair Davis" > To: "diy_efi" > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:47 PM > Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > >> Got everything to the point that I could try to fire the old Plymouth up >> today. Everything SEEMS to work, except the injectors. No gas smell in > the >> tail pipes or intake, no flashing on the noid light, I'm guessing the >> injectors aren't injecting. >> >> Here's what I know: >> - #1 plug is firing on the early side of TDC >> - spark is nice and regular (according to the timing light) >> - there's over 40psi of fuel pressure at the regulator >> - there's fuel in the rails >> - the fuel pump relay is doing it's thing >> - no fuses appear to be blown >> - ECM is grounded to the engine block, and engine/chassis grounds are >> good >> >> Here's what I don't know: >> - does the ECM case need to be grounded? (assuming not) >> >> I haven't hit my 1990 Camaro FSM yet, but I figured I'd better throw this >> out to the masses anyway. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on? I >> really think everything is pretty solid, from a wiring standpoint, and > fuel >> is obviously not an issue (other than the small leak at the pump, and the >> fact that it's not getting in to the combustion chambers). >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! >> >> Clair >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From clair.davis at charter.net Sun Oct 8 22:09:12 2006 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 22:09:12 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... References: <002601c6eb44$ef433360$6501a8c0@davis><002c01c6eb45$83b229c0$6501a8c0@davis> <002d01c6eb4f$21dfd9e0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> Message-ID: <002001c6eb50$4c2d8340$6501a8c0@davis> Haven't checked the BIN, I don't have any way of doing that right now. Looks like I'll have to make a call to Moates this week... Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Woock" To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > Did you look at your bin to what you have for cranking fuel? > > Charles > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clair Davis" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > DOH... perhaps I should mention that this is using a GM '7730 ECM... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Clair Davis" > > To: "diy_efi" > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:47 PM > > Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > >> Got everything to the point that I could try to fire the old Plymouth up > >> today. Everything SEEMS to work, except the injectors. No gas smell in > > the > >> tail pipes or intake, no flashing on the noid light, I'm guessing the > >> injectors aren't injecting. > >> > >> Here's what I know: > >> - #1 plug is firing on the early side of TDC > >> - spark is nice and regular (according to the timing light) > >> - there's over 40psi of fuel pressure at the regulator > >> - there's fuel in the rails > >> - the fuel pump relay is doing it's thing > >> - no fuses appear to be blown > >> - ECM is grounded to the engine block, and engine/chassis grounds are > >> good > >> > >> Here's what I don't know: > >> - does the ECM case need to be grounded? (assuming not) > >> > >> I haven't hit my 1990 Camaro FSM yet, but I figured I'd better throw this > >> out to the masses anyway. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on? I > >> really think everything is pretty solid, from a wiring standpoint, and > > fuel > >> is obviously not an issue (other than the small leak at the pump, and the > >> fact that it's not getting in to the combustion chambers). > >> > >> Any help would be greatly appreciated! > >> > >> Clair > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From marty67357 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 8 23:38:47 2006 From: marty67357 at yahoo.com (Marty Schmid) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 21:38:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... In-Reply-To: <002201c6eb4e$aceff020$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> Message-ID: <20061009043847.72792.qmail@web31712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has dis-abled the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the vats, is it enabled or disabled --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. From sonoma at shaw.ca Mon Oct 9 01:42:07 2006 From: sonoma at shaw.ca (Mike) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 23:42:07 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? Message-ID: <001001c6eb6e$0a1906a0$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> Hi Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. Thanks From sonoma at shaw.ca Mon Oct 9 02:29:20 2006 From: sonoma at shaw.ca (Mike) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:29:20 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Removing EGR,TCC ??? Message-ID: <000c01c6eb74$a29c3e00$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> Hi I'm installing TBI from a 91Chev G20 Van 5.7L 350cid into a 83 GMC G30 Van 5.7L 350cid THM400 This vehicle doesn't require emissions testing and only came with PCV and a air pump, I would like to use the stock prom if possible in the 1227747 ECM at least for just testing. It has a TCC solenoid for the transmission, my THM400 doesn't use this can I just leave this disconnected? I'm going to use the stock TBI intake manifold I will need the EGR with the stock prom, but if I get a custom prom is it better for fuel economy to run EGR or no EGR? Thanks Mike... From scoutii76 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 9 02:46:54 2006 From: scoutii76 at hotmail.com (Bill USN-1) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:46:54 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? In-Reply-To: <001001c6eb6e$0a1906a0$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> Message-ID: If you have it on the ground, use a 50/50 mix of castrol superclean and water. Use a paintbrush to scrub it. Or if you want to wipe 1 wire at a time, I used to use lacquer thinner. Bill USN-1 -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:42 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? Hi Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. Thanks _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From steve at donegan.org Mon Oct 9 07:55:49 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 05:55:49 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1160398549.2961.16.camel@perky.donegan.org> Right now it is frequency in * % adjustment and frequency out - it is intended in the future to track a desired A/F ratio from a wideband O2 sensor and adjust the frequency as required to seek a particular goal. On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 11:41 +1000, Ben P wrote: > a question about the board... > > does it work anything like the silicon ship Digital Fuel Adjuster? > http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2418/article.html > > that kit has 128 steps of adjustment, with each 'steo' being assigned a > different voltage and having a different, pre-programmed, adjustment value. > the adjustment is a 'voltage in + adjustment value = voltage out'. Is yours > like that (but with frequency)? > > thanks > Ben > > > >From: "Steven P. Donegan" > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Early Mitsubishi EFI tuning > >Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 09:05:35 -0700 > > > >Well, Interceptor is a generic term used by the Oz folks mostly - > >devices which intercept signals from car sensors, apply some logic to > >them and present the changed signals to the original car EMC. The one I > >designed is here: https://www.microvore.com/interceptor.jpg > > > >If the MAF does frequency output my board may well do the trick - it > >also has analog inputs but no analog outputs at present. > > > >On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 10:56 -0500, The AirHawk wrote: > > > > Ok another question about tuning an old manufacturers computer... > > > > > > > > The first of the fuel injection systems on the Mitsubishi Magna's were > >attached to the FWD version > > > > of the ASTRON II engine, and I also believe that they had that awful > >Karman-Vortex air-flow meter > > > > with a frequency output instead of a voltage. > > > > > > > > The first series of questions are: > > > > > > > > Can these computers be remapped? And if they can, how is it done? > > > > > > Try here: > > > http://dsm-ecu.com/ > > > Or here: > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dsm-ecu/ > > > > > > If your Magna uses the OBDI-type eprom ECU, as used in '90-'94 DSMs > >(Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi > > > Eclipse, Plymouth Laser)with the 4G63 engine, you'll probably find your > >answer. If your ECU is > > > different, they might be able to point you in the correct direction. > >There are a LOT of very > > > knowledgeable individuals on the yahoo-group message board. > > > > > > A word of warning: the yahoo-group will be most helpful in getting you > >going, but they have little > > > tolerance for "Hey somebody send me a file!" or "Would somebody code > >this so I can install this > > > widget on my car" kind of "requests". They'll help you, help yourself. > >(not that I think you'll do > > > that, I just wanted to put out a general warning about it) > > > > > > > I have heard of various early computers using the EPROM chips, would > >they use this? And if they > > > > do, does anyone possess a program that can convert the file from the > >eprom dump into a magageable > > > > form (such as the TunerCat for GM computers)? > > > > > > There are a few programs tailored for the DSM-ECU on the yahoo-groups > >site. You'll have to join for > > > more details. > > > > > > > And the last question is simple, has anyone heard of an interceptor > >being successfully used on > > > > this computer? > > > > > > > > the reason behind asking all of this: A friend is building an early > >RWD Lancer, with a > > > > turbocharged 2.6L Astron engine, and has an injected magna that he is > >putting the turbo kit on > > > > first, just to make sure everything runs. > > > > > > Sorry, interceptor? Are you talking of an auxilliary fueling computer? > > > > > > > thanks > > > > Ben > > > > > > N.P. > > > > > > -Scott C. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Diy_efi mailing list > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >-- > >"Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new > >criminals."-- John Tandervold > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _________________________________________________________________ > Research and compare new cars side by side at carpoint.com.au > http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fsecure%2Dau%2Eimrworldwide%2Ecom%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Fa%2Fci%5F450304%2Fet%5F2%2Fcg%5F801459%2Fpi%5F1004813%2Fai%5F833884&_t=54321&_r=hotmail_endtext&_m=EXT > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net Mon Oct 9 09:54:34 2006 From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 07:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? In-Reply-To: <001001c6eb6e$0a1906a0$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> Message-ID: <20061009145434.14926.qmail@web80511.mail.yahoo.com> I've done this numerous times, my favorite is good old soap and water, but pesky ones I've used 'Grease Relief or Away' (sorry, can't remember exact name) followed up w/ dishwashing soap, I don'ate a couple of kitchen towels to the project. I big wash tub helps, shallow/flat as opposed to a bucket, and when all done hang it out to dry in the sun/breeze for a couple days to 'bake' the moisture out of it. Then, lay it out and re-tape or loom it up, you'll have a factory fresh harness. good approach, Mike, as I've seen way too many folks put the old grime into a conversion and they are a mess to work with at startup, so make it look clean to start and you'll be proud to show it off. ----- Original Message ---- From: Mike To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 1:42:07 AM Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? Hi Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. Thanks _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From frankmccracken at shaw.ca Mon Oct 9 15:23:25 2006 From: frankmccracken at shaw.ca (Frank McCracken) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 13:23:25 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? References: <001001c6eb6e$0a1906a0$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> Message-ID: <003601c6ebe0$c74c35e0$6401a8c0@flamingo> There is electrical contact cleaner which removes grease and tape gum, does a nice job. Varsole on a rag works just about as well. Regards, Frank. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:42 PM Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? Hi Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. Thanks _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/466 - Release Date: 10/7/2006 From support at cad500parts.com Mon Oct 9 16:47:23 2006 From: support at cad500parts.com (Chris) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 15:47:23 -0600 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? Message-ID: <000301c6ebec$8b78d940$0600a8c0@CC2> Jeff - I was waiting for someone who knows better than me speak up, but I'll give the fuzzy memory a poke here... When I was at the dealership we had a guy in house that did that on the older cars with the EPROMS (pull it out and flash it). I'm not sure now as to exact model years, but I think the general rule is if you have the big screw on diagnostic connector, it is EEPROM, and factory tuning updates are flashed through the diagnostic connector. If you have the small push on diagnostic connector, it is EPROM and factory updates are done via chip replacement. I also remember there being exceptions to that rule. There used to be a very active USENET group specifically for BMW EFI modders - it is worth a look. The guys on the USENET group were talking about modifying a reset tool to use as a connector for flashing the EEPROM from a laptop once upon a time, but it is probably better to just buy a cable, if not the software. I seem to remember Dinan being the king of the hill in that department (ECM tuning software, connectors, and such), I'm sure a quick Google search will get you there. At least you should be able to quickly ID what options are for your car based on what they offer. Last, but not least, the source for your camshaft may have a pre-calibrated chip or a one-shot flasher for your setup. I know, not the answer you were looking for, but hopefully at least a little help. -----Original Message----- Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 09:51:46 -0700 From: "JS Nord" Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? To: Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Hello, New arriver to the list here. Thanks for having me - great resource. My interest is in being able to modify the fuel and timing maps for used in the BMW E34 535i, Bosch motronic version 1.3. I'd like to be able to do to help tune out a modified engine that includes a displacement increase and cam shaft change (no forced induction) I'm curious if anyone on the list has experiance in understanding the mapping structure associated with this version of Motronic. I'm also curious if anyone has experiance in using this tool from Atlantis software that seems to have the ability to edit the motronic tables http://www.atlantisconsultingllc.com/atlantis.php?page=Motronic%20Editor Best case would be someone who's used this tool on the BMW 1.3 motronic and has the offsets for all the tables with some real world experiance on how well this tool works. Anyone have any thoughts on past discussions or projects in this area that might help me get started? Cheers! Jeff 90 BMW 535i From clair.davis at charter.net Mon Oct 9 20:21:21 2006 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 20:21:21 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... References: <20061009043847.72792.qmail@web31712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002001c6ec0a$65acf660$6501a8c0@davis> Update... OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction in the system. Time to go take some notes. Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Schmid" To: "Charles Woock" ; Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has dis-abled the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the vats, is it enabled or disabled > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From hoptona at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 22:51:38 2006 From: hoptona at gmail.com (Andrew Hopton) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 13:21:38 +0930 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... In-Reply-To: <002001c6ec0a$65acf660$6501a8c0@davis> Message-ID: <000201c6ec1f$666bcd00$0401010a@TOSHIBAM500> Hi, Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') Cheers, Hoppy. -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Clair Davis Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Update... OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction in the system. Time to go take some notes. Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Schmid" To: "Charles Woock" ; Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > dis-abled the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the vats, is it enabled or disabled > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Mon Oct 9 23:25:12 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:25:12 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? Message-ID: "goop" or other emulsifying hand cleaner works well, with lots of rags or paper towels. --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:42 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? > > Hi > Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness > without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use > harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to > clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. > The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Mon Oct 9 23:28:48 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 23:28:48 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Removing EGR,TCC ??? Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:29 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Diy_efi] Removing EGR,TCC ??? > > Hi > > I'm installing TBI from a 91Chev G20 Van 5.7L 350cid into a > 83 GMC G30 Van 5.7L 350cid THM400 > > It has a TCC solenoid for the transmission, my THM400 doesn't > use this can I just leave this disconnected? Should be fine. You'll want VSS and P/N hooked up, though, do you have them? > > I'm going to use the stock TBI intake manifold I will need > the EGR with the stock prom, but if I get a custom prom is it > better for fuel economy to run EGR or no EGR? > As long as you have all the pieces to implement EGR, I'd say go ahead and do it. Take it out later when you've gotten a better understanding of how it all works together. --steve -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From jsnord at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 00:51:18 2006 From: jsnord at hotmail.com (JS Nord) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 22:51:18 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? References: <000301c6ebec$8b78d940$0600a8c0@CC2> Message-ID: Thank Chris, I've done some poking around on this and know the following: - Car's chip based, not flashed. I actually have a nifty device called a ROMULATOR which will allow you to take a modified BIN file and simulate a ROM chip. Nice setup - you and tinker with the BIN file and then load it up to the ROMULATOR and give it a try. - I'm doing all this via a HEX editor; extremely crude to say the least. The Atlantis software offers some hope in giving you a good tool that will map out the tables and axis' to let you better visualize what you're working with. Of course, to make it all work you need the table offsets in the chip. While I have some of these - the idle table and WOT table, the ones I really need to tweek are the mid throttle timing and fuel maps. I'd love to find someone who's tried the Altantis tool and worked with my chip. Seems like most of the dedicated amateur motronic hackers are Porsche guys. Code line is similar it seems but the actual tables and placement are not. - There is a group of tuners out there who've essentially disassembled the microcode in the BMW motronic ROM. Jim Conforti, Mark D'Sylva, Dinan and others seem to have all figured how how to successfully mod the base tables. - I think I've searched around on the posts in that old USENET group. Jim C seemed to be pretty active at that time and outline some of the techniques he was using to break the code. If that group's still active I'd love to have the links to get the list. - No one's offering a custom chip for my setup. Cam's from an outfit called Metric Mechanic - a BMW specialty machine shop in Missouri. Proprieter is Jim Rowe, a very nice and knowledge guy. But, he's machinist at heart and not a tuner / EFI guy. Any tips, pointers or others who've tackled this is most appreciated. Jeff 90 BMW 535 86 Porsche 951 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? > Jeff - > I was waiting for someone who knows better than me speak up, but I'll give > the fuzzy memory a poke here... > When I was at the dealership we had a guy in house that did that on the > older cars with the EPROMS (pull it out and flash it). I'm not sure now as > to exact model years, but I think the general rule is if you have the big > screw on diagnostic connector, it is EEPROM, and factory tuning updates > are > flashed through the diagnostic connector. If you have the small push on > diagnostic connector, it is EPROM and factory updates are done via chip > replacement. I also remember there being exceptions to that rule. > There used to be a very active USENET group specifically for BMW EFI > modders > - it is worth a look. The guys on the USENET group were talking about > modifying a reset tool to use as a connector for flashing the EEPROM from > a > laptop once upon a time, but it is probably better to just buy a cable, if > not the software. > I seem to remember Dinan being the king of the hill in that department > (ECM > tuning software, connectors, and such), I'm sure a quick Google search > will > get you there. At least you should be able to quickly ID what options are > for your car based on what they offer. > Last, but not least, the source for your camshaft may have a > pre-calibrated > chip or a one-shot flasher for your setup. > > I know, not the answer you were looking for, but hopefully at least a > little > help. > > > -----Original Message----- > > Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 09:51:46 -0700 > From: "JS Nord" > Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hello, > > New arriver to the list here. Thanks for having me - great resource. > > My interest is in being able to modify the fuel and timing maps for used > in > the BMW E34 535i, Bosch motronic version 1.3. I'd like to be able to do > to > help tune out a modified engine that includes a displacement increase and > cam shaft change (no forced induction) > > I'm curious if anyone on the list has experiance in understanding the > mapping structure associated with this version of Motronic. > > I'm also curious if anyone has experiance in using this tool from Atlantis > software that seems to have the ability to edit the motronic tables > http://www.atlantisconsultingllc.com/atlantis.php?page=Motronic%20Editor > Best case would be someone who's used this tool on the BMW 1.3 motronic > and > has the offsets for all the tables with some real world experiance on how > well this tool works. > > Anyone have any thoughts on past discussions or projects in this area that > might help me get started? > > Cheers! > > Jeff > 90 BMW 535i > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From benof1987 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 01:07:25 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:07:25 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes that's right, my car (As with all Australian 6 cylinder falcons) uses a MAP sensor, not an air-flow meter. The V8 models (all windsor powered) do come with air-flow meters though. That moates stuff looks the goods, but its still expensive (for me anyway) once you convert it to aussie dollars. Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV Car (with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? thanks Ben >From: "Daniel Nicoson" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 10:10:19 -0400 > >Ben, > >The lowest cost way to tune EEC-V that I am aware of is the Moates hardware >at www.moates.net > >I use the TwEECer on my EEC-IV. This device works on EEC-V too. >www.tweecer.com > >I'm not sure about the map sensors. I am used to MAF sensors, they use a >0-5volt signal. Does your EEC-V use a map? > >Dan Nicoson > >-----Original Message----- >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Ben P >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:02 AM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >Hi people, I'm just trying to find out whether it is possible to tune the >ford EEC-V computers, as found in the 1994-2002 Ford Falcons. > >I have heard that it is possible using a special expander board, but I am >unsure how this works. > >I have also heard of a flash tuner being released to alter maps via the >diagnostics port, but the companies that do this charge way too much. Does >anyone know how this is done and whether or not it is possible for the >diy-er to do this themselves? > >and the last EEC-V question: Do the map sensors for these falcons output a >voltage or a frequency? I have heard both, and am a little confused. > >thanks >Ben > >_________________________________________________________________ >See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referr >al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&pa >ge=killers > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ Thousands of sexy singles online http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Flavalife9%2Eninemsn%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fclickthru%2Fclickthru%2Eact%3Fid%3Dninemsn%26context%3Dan99%26locale%3Den%5FAU%26a%3D23768&_t=754951090&_r=endtext_lavalife_oct_1000&_m=EXT From sonoma at shaw.ca Tue Oct 10 02:30:49 2006 From: sonoma at shaw.ca (Mike) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 00:30:49 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Removing EGR,TCC ??? References: Message-ID: <001801c6ec3e$028d4ce0$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> Hi Steve I'm planning on running VSS to the ECM, the DRAC module is missing, I have cruise control it was mentioned that I could use the output from the optical sensor on the back of my speedo to supply signal directly to the ECM VSS pin. I haven't tried this so I don't know if it will work I hope to connect A/C and P/N to have idle bumped up or down. >should be fine. You'll want VSS and P/N hooked up, though, do you have >them? I've decided to keep EGR for now. >As long as you have all the pieces to implement EGR, I'd say go ahead >and do it. Take it out later when you've gotten a better understanding >of how it all works together. >--steve Thanks From benof1987 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 03:36:24 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:36:24 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] Mappable Extra Injector Controller? Message-ID: Hi people, just after any and all information on mappable extra injector controllers that you may have. Currently I am after an extra injector controller that can be mapped (RPM and Manifold Pressure table) to provide extra fuel for two different engines. One of them is a 2.6L Astron II (ala sigma/early magna), and another being a ford 4L OHC (EA-AU Falcon) engine. The engines themselves aren't important, but the management systems are. The Astron is powered by an early Mitsubishi computer with an air flow meter. The problem is that the air-flow meter is designed around this engine, but was not designed with 18psi in mind, so it will hit its flow (or at least measurement) ceiling pretty quickly when the engine develops boost. The Falcon engine uses a more sophisticated MAP sensor'ed EECV Computer. Although this computer 'can' be retuned (as I found earlier), the MAP sensor soon runs out of range under high (anything above about 8-10psi) boost, and the price list of the equipment needed to do it is impressive ($230-odd US, might as well buy a megasquirt). The perfect computer would have a map based on RPM and manifold pressure, be able to control six injectors directly, and be mappable via a usb cable. but thats hardly likely to happen. any anyone think of a controller that could do this (or teach me how to make my own)? Thanks Ben _________________________________________________________________ Thousands of jobs, millions of opportunities at seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau&_t=757263760&_r=Hotmail_EndText_Oct06&_m=EXT From niche at iinet.net.au Tue Oct 10 07:47:47 2006 From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061010204438.026f9160@iinet.net.au>> At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV Car (with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? You could use the standard mechanical route, rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should be able to get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) distributor (in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in case there isnt enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a bracket. I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if not too long quite stable... Regards from Mike Massen Network Power Systems Lab 08 9444 8961 Mb 0438 048961 Perth, Western Australia * VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! * RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials * Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars * Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the best oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 10 11:18:08 2006 From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... In-Reply-To: <000201c6ec1f$666bcd00$0401010a@TOSHIBAM500> Message-ID: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if it squirts when the fuel log is presureized ----- Original Message ---- From: Andrew Hopton To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Hi, Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') Cheers, Hoppy. -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Clair Davis Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Update... OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction in the system. Time to go take some notes. Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Schmid" To: "Charles Woock" ; Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > dis-abled the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the vats, is it enabled or disabled > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From tmc_mike_yates at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 10 12:34:37 2006 From: tmc_mike_yates at sbcglobal.net (Mike Yates) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 10:34:37 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor Message-ID: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com> anyone here know of a wiring schematic and possibly some freeware drivers to monitor wideband O2 data via serial port? ...Yeah im cheap i know but i cant bring myself to pay between 3 and 600 dollars for something that's so simple as 0-5v. Mike From steve at donegan.org Tue Oct 10 13:18:52 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor In-Reply-To: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com> References: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com> Message-ID: <12907.70.168.146.244.1160504332.squirrel@www.donegan.org> Unfortunately it isn't as simple as 0-5v the wideband O2 'controller' is a fairly complex thing. The cheapest complete system I know of is called an LC-1 or LC-2 - <200$... > anyone here know of a wiring schematic and possibly some freeware > drivers to monitor wideband O2 data via serial port? > > ...Yeah im cheap i know but i cant bring myself to pay between 3 and > 600 dollars for something that's so simple as 0-5v. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From jsnord at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 13:51:31 2006 From: jsnord at hotmail.com (JS Nord) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 11:51:31 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor References: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com> <12907.70.168.146.244.1160504332.squirrel@www.donegan.org> Message-ID: The Innovate Motorsport LC-1 unit is about $150 for: - the O2 sender - programmable controller unit with multiple outputs - logging software - cables Works well - price is hard to beat. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven P. Donegan" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor > Unfortunately it isn't as simple as 0-5v the wideband O2 'controller' is a > fairly complex thing. The cheapest complete system I know of is called an > LC-1 or LC-2 - <200$... > >> anyone here know of a wiring schematic and possibly some freeware >> drivers to monitor wideband O2 data via serial port? >> >> ...Yeah im cheap i know but i cant bring myself to pay between 3 and >> 600 dollars for something that's so simple as 0-5v. >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 10 13:52:16 2006 From: galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net (Jason M.) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 14:52:16 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor References: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com> <12907.70.168.146.244.1160504332.squirrel@www.donegan.org> Message-ID: <003c01c6ec9d$37b7f0a0$4101a8c0@BILLYBOB> I was told the wideband controler we use for ohio state's formula sae team cost around $150. Was a kit that came as a bare board and bags of components. I'll try to find out more about it tonight. Generally we just feed the data to a dyno program on a laptop for engine dyno tuning. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven P. Donegan" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor > Unfortunately it isn't as simple as 0-5v the wideband O2 'controller' is a > fairly complex thing. The cheapest complete system I know of is called an > LC-1 or LC-2 - <200$... > >> anyone here know of a wiring schematic and possibly some freeware >> drivers to monitor wideband O2 data via serial port? >> >> ...Yeah im cheap i know but i cant bring myself to pay between 3 and >> 600 dollars for something that's so simple as 0-5v. >> >> Mike >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From 121479 at bellsouth.net Tue Oct 10 14:16:52 2006 From: 121479 at bellsouth.net (Matt Peacock) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 12:16:52 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor References: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com><12907.70.168.146.244.1160504332.squirrel@www.donegan.org> <003c01c6ec9d$37b7f0a0$4101a8c0@BILLYBOB> Message-ID: <000701c6eca0$a5680ce0$b701a8c0@toshibauser> The sensor is a vw (bosch part #) for the less expensive non ntk sensors. I ordered one last week for a replacement for my innovate lm-1. It was $52 with tax from Napa. There was somewhere online a bosch sensor could be shipped for less than $35. VW sensor lists for above 150 at the dealer. These are a couple of diy kits. http://techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/builtwb.htm http://www.airfuelmeter.com/english/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason M." To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor >I was told the wideband controler we use for ohio state's formula sae team >cost around $150. Was a kit that came as a bare board and bags of >components. I'll try to find out more about it tonight. Generally we just >feed the data to a dyno program on a laptop for engine dyno tuning. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven P. Donegan" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor > > >> Unfortunately it isn't as simple as 0-5v the wideband O2 'controller' is >> a >> fairly complex thing. The cheapest complete system I know of is called an >> LC-1 or LC-2 - <200$... >> >>> anyone here know of a wiring schematic and possibly some freeware >>> drivers to monitor wideband O2 data via serial port? >>> >>> ...Yeah im cheap i know but i cant bring myself to pay between 3 and >>> 600 dollars for something that's so simple as 0-5v. >>> >>> Mike >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Diy_efi mailing list >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From ronin at aristotle.net Tue Oct 10 16:07:30 2006 From: ronin at aristotle.net (Dave Williams) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:07:30 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? In-Reply-To: <001001c6eb6e$0a1906a0$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> References: <001001c6eb6e$0a1906a0$6501a8c0@duron4569bdb85> Message-ID: <452C0B92.4070606@aristotle.net> Mike wrote: > Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. > The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. A friend of mine has a jet cleaner in his engine shop. I cut all the tape off a harness with a razor blade, toss it in the jet cleaner, and it comes out clean and non-sticky. The cleaning chemical is basically lye soap. -- == http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/index.htm == http://autotech.freeforumhost.com/autotech.html From efi_dude at narwani.org Tue Oct 10 17:51:30 2006 From: efi_dude at narwani.org (Neil) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:51:30 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor In-Reply-To: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com> References: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com> Message-ID: <200610101751.31014.efi_dude@narwani.org> This is a serious undertaking. ?Wideband sensors don't just send an output that varies in some fashion to the AFR, but rather based on a feedback mechanism where a dynamically variable control current is sent to the sensor to balance the output at a specific level. ?The amount of control current is related to the AFR. ?But while this is happening, temperature must be very carefully maintained, as it significantly affects accuracy. ?The cheaper units monitor/control the temperature of the heater, while the better units control the temperature of the sensing tip. ?This of course means superimposing another signal on top of the control/output signal and filtering that out to isolate the temperature signal from the AFR signal. Still want to do this? :-) Get a commercial unit with an analog output (Innovate, PLX, Zeitronix, etc) and run that into a serial datalogger. ?Should cost around $200 to $225. -Neil. On Tuesday 10 October 2006 12:34, Mike Yates wrote: > anyone here know of a wiring schematic and possibly some freeware > drivers to monitor wideband O2 data via serial port? > > ...Yeah im cheap i know but i cant bring myself to pay between 3 and > 600 dollars for something that's so simple as 0-5v. > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From benof1987 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 18:01:34 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:01:34 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061010204438.026f9160@iinet.net.au>> Message-ID: no distributor to rotate... I should see if I can do that to the cam angle sensor though, as a dizzy fits into the same hole. And I came across an interesting theory on www.fordforums.com.au (the '400hp for $5000' thread in the eseries section, my username there is BLSTIC). Apparently its possible for the megasquirt ecu to use the cam angle sensor while the ford ecu is also using it. This can lead to full megasquirt spark control, with the ford computer injecting its usual amount of fuel for non boosted conditions, and the megasquirt also supplying extra fuel (via another set of six injectors) under boost conditions only. The only problem with this approach is that the cam angle sensor signal is too weak for the ford computer to function properly (as it is also being 'used' by the megasquirt), leading to fuel injection problems. If that were to be done, the only reason I would want the ford computer still there is to control the dash, auto trans, trip computer, and diagnostic functions. It also cuts out a lot of mapping. thoughts? Ben >From: "Mike" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 > >At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: > > >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV Car >(with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? > >You could use the standard mechanical route, >rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should be >able to >get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) >distributor >(in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in case >there isnt >enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a bracket. >I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if not >too long quite stable... > > > > > >Regards from > > >Mike Massen >Network Power Systems >Lab 08 9444 8961 >Mb 0438 048961 >Perth, Western Australia >* VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! >* RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials >* Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars >* Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the >best > oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. >Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&referral=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=2465§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet From atomic at extendwireless.net Tue Oct 10 21:02:51 2006 From: atomic at extendwireless.net (Charles Woock) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:02:51 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick McLeod" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if it squirts when the fuel log is presureized ----- Original Message ---- From: Andrew Hopton To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Hi, Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') Cheers, Hoppy. -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Clair Davis Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Update... OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction in the system. Time to go take some notes. Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Schmid" To: "Charles Woock" ; Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > dis-abled the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the vats, is it enabled or disabled > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From atomic at extendwireless.net Tue Oct 10 21:11:07 2006 From: atomic at extendwireless.net (Charles Woock) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:11:07 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] 3 wire heated O2? Message-ID: <005001c6ecda$83f07f40$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> On a heated narrow band O2 (3 wire) do you just leave the 12v heater power on while the engine is running? I have LONNGGG tube headers and don't think the collector stays hot enough but I'm not really sure... Do I just leave the power connected to the O2? Thanks, Charles From Steve.Ravet at arm.com Tue Oct 10 21:25:17 2006 From: Steve.Ravet at arm.com (Steve Ravet) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:25:17 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] 3 wire heated O2? Message-ID: Yup, on all the time the engine is running. You could hook it to the fuel pump circuit if it has enough capacity. --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Charles Woock > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:11 PM > To: 1diy_efi mailing list > Subject: [Diy_efi] 3 wire heated O2? > > On a heated narrow band O2 (3 wire) do you just leave the 12v > heater power on while the engine is running? I have LONNGGG > tube headers and don't think the collector stays hot enough > but I'm not really sure... Do I just leave the power > connected to the O2? > > Thanks, Charles > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. From clair.davis at charter.net Tue Oct 10 21:18:48 2006 From: clair.davis at charter.net (Clair Davis) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 21:18:48 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> <003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> Message-ID: <004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis> I'd kind of like to see a schematic for that, too. 555's and trans/FET's are BEYOND Greek to me... Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Woock" To: "Rick McLeod" ; Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? > > Thanks > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick McLeod" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power > trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if it > squirts when the fuel log is presureized > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Andrew Hopton > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > Hi, > > Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not > running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably > 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both > sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop > across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when > the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. > > By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the > injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') > > Cheers, > > Hoppy. > > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] > On Behalf Of Clair Davis > Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > Update... > > OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me > thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. > > I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in > fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the > guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll > shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. > > In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've > done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the > injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction > in the system. Time to go take some notes. > > Clair > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marty Schmid" > To: "Charles Woock" ; > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > > dis-abled > the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the > vats, is it enabled or disabled > > > > --------------------------------- > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great > rates starting at 1?/min. > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From steve at donegan.org Tue Oct 10 21:34:09 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:34:09 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER In-Reply-To: <004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis> References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> <003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> <004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis> Message-ID: <1160534049.31974.11.camel@perky.donegan.org> This should help: http://www.solorb.com/elect/solarcirc/pwm1/ Basically and 'clocking' source applied where R9 is in the circuit (meaning you can ditch the entire left hand side of the diagram) drives the FET... A morph of that subset is exactly what will be in my EFI project when I get to that part... On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 21:18 -0500, Clair Davis wrote: > I'd kind of like to see a schematic for that, too. 555's and trans/FET's > are BEYOND Greek to me... > > Clair > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Woock" > To: "Rick McLeod" ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > > > Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rick McLeod" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power > > trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if > it > > squirts when the fuel log is presureized > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Andrew Hopton > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM > > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not > > running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably > > 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both > > sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop > > across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when > > the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. > > > > By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the > > injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') > > > > Cheers, > > > > Hoppy. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] > > On Behalf Of Clair Davis > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > Update... > > > > OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me > > thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. > > > > I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in > > fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the > > guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll > > shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. > > > > In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've > > done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the > > injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction > > in the system. Time to go take some notes. > > > > Clair > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Marty Schmid" > > To: "Charles Woock" ; > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > > > dis-abled > > the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the > > vats, is it enabled or disabled > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great > > rates starting at 1?/min. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Diy_efi mailing list > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From steve at donegan.org Tue Oct 10 21:41:09 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:41:09 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER In-Reply-To: <1160534049.31974.11.camel@perky.donegan.org> References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> <003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> <004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis> <1160534049.31974.11.camel@perky.donegan.org> Message-ID: <1160534469.31974.14.camel@perky.donegan.org> I meant 'any' clocking source - the key is you don't want to smoke the injector by keeping the 'on' period very long - I think they are rated in milliseconds in that area. On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 19:34 -0700, Steven P. Donegan wrote: > This should help: > > http://www.solorb.com/elect/solarcirc/pwm1/ > > Basically and 'clocking' source applied where R9 is in the circuit > (meaning you can ditch the entire left hand side of the diagram) drives > the FET... A morph of that subset is exactly what will be in my EFI > project when I get to that part... > > > > On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 21:18 -0500, Clair Davis wrote: > > I'd kind of like to see a schematic for that, too. 555's and trans/FET's > > are BEYOND Greek to me... > > > > Clair > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charles Woock" > > To: "Rick McLeod" ; > > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > > > > > > Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rick McLeod" > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > > > > to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power > > > trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if > > it > > > squirts when the fuel log is presureized > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Andrew Hopton > > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM > > > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not > > > running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably > > > 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both > > > sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop > > > across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when > > > the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. > > > > > > By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the > > > injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Hoppy. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] > > > On Behalf Of Clair Davis > > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM > > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > > > > Update... > > > > > > OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me > > > thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. > > > > > > I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in > > > fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the > > > guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll > > > shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. > > > > > > In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've > > > done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the > > > injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction > > > in the system. Time to go take some notes. > > > > > > Clair > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Marty Schmid" > > > To: "Charles Woock" ; > > > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > > > > > > > > > > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > > > > dis-abled > > > the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the > > > vats, is it enabled or disabled > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great > > > rates starting at 1?/min. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Diy_efi mailing list > > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Diy_efi mailing list > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Diy_efi mailing list > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Diy_efi mailing list > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Diy_efi mailing list > > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Tue Oct 10 22:12:33 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:42:33 +0930 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com><003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> <004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis> Message-ID: <001001c6ece3$1936f040$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> hi, of the top of my head, (without a gearbox on it......long story.) in back of dick smith catalog there is a simple schematic using a 555 timer , all then u have to to is connect the base of transistor to output of 555 , then emiter to ground, tehn connect injector thru the collector to +12v , sumthin like that , might pay to use a fast switching type transistor , and i think u have to put a resister in teh llinefrom 555 to base ? sumthin like taht . mark k] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clair Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > I'd kind of like to see a schematic for that, too. 555's and trans/FET's > are BEYOND Greek to me... > > Clair > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Woock" > To: "Rick McLeod" ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > >> Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? >> >> Thanks >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Rick McLeod" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power >> trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if > it >> squirts when the fuel log is presureized >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Andrew Hopton >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM >> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not >> running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably >> 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both >> sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop >> across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when >> the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. >> >> By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the >> injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') >> >> Cheers, >> >> Hoppy. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] >> On Behalf Of Clair Davis >> Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> Update... >> >> OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me >> thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. >> >> I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in >> fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the >> guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll >> shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. >> >> In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've >> done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the >> injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction >> in the system. Time to go take some notes. >> >> Clair >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marty Schmid" >> To: "Charles Woock" ; >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has >> > dis-abled >> the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the >> vats, is it enabled or disabled >> > >> > --------------------------------- >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great >> rates starting at 1?/min. >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Diy_efi mailing list >> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From steve at donegan.org Tue Oct 10 22:17:26 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:17:26 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER In-Reply-To: <001001c6ece3$1936f040$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> <003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> <004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis> <001001c6ece3$1936f040$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> Message-ID: <1160536646.31974.19.camel@perky.donegan.org> The stuff in the schematic I forwarded cover little things like flyback/kickback voltages from the injector coil, handling more current than any likely injector will ever need without frying the circuit etc. If I wasn't deep in other projects right now I'd do up a full test circuit - perhaps later - I do like having test tools before building the system itself :-) On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 12:42 +0930, mark krawczuk wrote: > hi, of the top of my head, (without a gearbox on it......long story.) in > back of dick smith catalog there is a simple schematic using a 555 timer , > all then u have to to is connect the base of transistor to output of 555 , > then emiter to ground, tehn connect injector thru the collector to +12v , > sumthin like that , might pay to use a fast switching type transistor , > and i think u have to put a resister in teh llinefrom 555 to base ? > > sumthin like taht . > > mark k] > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Clair Davis" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:48 AM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > > > I'd kind of like to see a schematic for that, too. 555's and trans/FET's > > are BEYOND Greek to me... > > > > Clair > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charles Woock" > > To: "Rick McLeod" ; > > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 PM > > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > > > > >> Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Rick McLeod" > >> To: > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> > >> > >> to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power > >> trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if > > it > >> squirts when the fuel log is presureized > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ---- > >> From: Andrew Hopton > >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM > >> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not > >> running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably > >> 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both > >> sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop > >> across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when > >> the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. > >> > >> By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the > >> injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Hoppy. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] > >> On Behalf Of Clair Davis > >> Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM > >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> > >> > >> Update... > >> > >> OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me > >> thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. > >> > >> I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in > >> fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the > >> guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll > >> shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. > >> > >> In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've > >> done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the > >> injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction > >> in the system. Time to go take some notes. > >> > >> Clair > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Marty Schmid" > >> To: "Charles Woock" ; > >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> > >> > >> > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > >> > dis-abled > >> the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the > >> vats, is it enabled or disabled > >> > > >> > --------------------------------- > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great > >> rates starting at 1?/min. > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Diy_efi mailing list > >> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From krawczuk at dodo.com.au Tue Oct 10 22:32:45 2006 From: krawczuk at dodo.com.au (mark krawczuk) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:02:45 +0930 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com><003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE><004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis><001001c6ece3$1936f040$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> <1160536646.31974.19.camel@perky.donegan.org> Message-ID: <000b01c6ece5$eb0224d0$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> hi, could u email me the schematic : krawczuk at dodo.com.au thanks, mark k ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven P. Donegan" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > The stuff in the schematic I forwarded cover little things like > flyback/kickback voltages from the injector coil, handling more current > than any likely injector will ever need without frying the circuit etc. > If I wasn't deep in other projects right now I'd do up a full test > circuit - perhaps later - I do like having test tools before building > the system itself :-) > > On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 12:42 +0930, mark krawczuk wrote: >> hi, of the top of my head, (without a gearbox on it......long story.) >> in >> back of dick smith catalog there is a simple schematic using a 555 timer >> , >> all then u have to to is connect the base of transistor to output of 555 >> , >> then emiter to ground, tehn connect injector thru the collector to +12v >> , >> sumthin like that , might pay to use a fast switching type transistor , >> and i think u have to put a resister in teh llinefrom 555 to base ? >> >> sumthin like taht . >> >> mark k] >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Clair Davis" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:48 AM >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER >> >> >> > I'd kind of like to see a schematic for that, too. 555's and >> > trans/FET's >> > are BEYOND Greek to me... >> > >> > Clair >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Charles Woock" >> > To: "Rick McLeod" ; >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 PM >> > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER >> > >> > >> >> Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Rick McLeod" >> >> To: >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> >> >> >> to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power >> >> trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see >> >> if >> > it >> >> squirts when the fuel log is presureized >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> >> From: Andrew Hopton >> >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >> Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM >> >> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is >> >> not >> >> running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably >> >> 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at >> >> both >> >> sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage >> >> drop >> >> across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when >> >> the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. >> >> >> >> By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the >> >> injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> Hoppy. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] >> >> On Behalf Of Clair Davis >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM >> >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> >> >> >> Update... >> >> >> >> OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... >> >> Me >> >> thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. >> >> >> >> I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in >> >> fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the >> >> guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. >> >> I'll >> >> shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. >> >> >> >> In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've >> >> done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the >> >> injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction >> >> in the system. Time to go take some notes. >> >> >> >> Clair >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Marty Schmid" >> >> To: "Charles Woock" ; >> >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... >> >> >> >> >> >> > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has >> >> > dis-abled >> >> the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the >> >> vats, is it enabled or disabled >> >> > >> >> > --------------------------------- >> >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. >> >> > Great >> >> rates starting at 1?/min. >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Diy_efi mailing list >> >> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Diy_efi mailing list >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Diy_efi mailing list >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Diy_efi mailing list >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Diy_efi mailing list >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Diy_efi mailing list >> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > -- > "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new > criminals."-- John Tandervold > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From steve at donegan.org Tue Oct 10 22:41:40 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:41:40 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER In-Reply-To: <000b01c6ece5$eb0224d0$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> References: <20061010161808.44856.qmail@web80504.mail.yahoo.com> <003301c6ecd9$5c83aeb0$02dea8c0@AIRBRIDGE> <004001c6ecdb$9c5d7000$6501a8c0@davis> <001001c6ece3$1936f040$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> <1160536646.31974.19.camel@perky.donegan.org> <000b01c6ece5$eb0224d0$1dba1bcb@markzu35x5eu9m> Message-ID: <1160538100.31974.38.camel@perky.donegan.org> Already did to the list: http://www.solorb.com/elect/solarcirc/pwm1/ Not my schematic - my equivalent is on my (ugh) Windows box at the office and is stripped down to just the essentials for firing injectors at any duty load possible - being me the FET's in my mod can handle 65 AMPS - far beyond anything needed but then they should run effectively cold and 'never' fry :-) On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 13:02 +0930, mark krawczuk wrote: > hi, could u email me the schematic : krawczuk at dodo.com.au > > thanks, > mark k > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven P. Donegan" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 12:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > > > The stuff in the schematic I forwarded cover little things like > > flyback/kickback voltages from the injector coil, handling more current > > than any likely injector will ever need without frying the circuit etc. > > If I wasn't deep in other projects right now I'd do up a full test > > circuit - perhaps later - I do like having test tools before building > > the system itself :-) > > > > On Wed, 2006-10-11 at 12:42 +0930, mark krawczuk wrote: > >> hi, of the top of my head, (without a gearbox on it......long story.) > >> in > >> back of dick smith catalog there is a simple schematic using a 555 timer > >> , > >> all then u have to to is connect the base of transistor to output of 555 > >> , > >> then emiter to ground, tehn connect injector thru the collector to +12v > >> , > >> sumthin like that , might pay to use a fast switching type transistor , > >> and i think u have to put a resister in teh llinefrom 555 to base ? > >> > >> sumthin like taht . > >> > >> mark k] > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Clair Davis" > >> To: > >> Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 11:48 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > >> > >> > >> > I'd kind of like to see a schematic for that, too. 555's and > >> > trans/FET's > >> > are BEYOND Greek to me... > >> > > >> > Clair > >> > > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Charles Woock" > >> > To: "Rick McLeod" ; > >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:02 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > >> > > >> > > >> >> Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? > >> >> > >> >> Thanks > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Rick McLeod" > >> >> To: > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM > >> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power > >> >> trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see > >> >> if > >> > it > >> >> squirts when the fuel log is presureized > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ---- > >> >> From: Andrew Hopton > >> >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> >> Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM > >> >> Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Hi, > >> >> > >> >> Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is > >> >> not > >> >> running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably > >> >> 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at > >> >> both > >> >> sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage > >> >> drop > >> >> across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when > >> >> the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. > >> >> > >> >> By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the > >> >> injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') > >> >> > >> >> Cheers, > >> >> > >> >> Hoppy. > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] > >> >> On Behalf Of Clair Davis > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM > >> >> To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Update... > >> >> > >> >> OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... > >> >> Me > >> >> thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. > >> >> > >> >> I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in > >> >> fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the > >> >> guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. > >> >> I'll > >> >> shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. > >> >> > >> >> In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've > >> >> done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the > >> >> injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction > >> >> in the system. Time to go take some notes. > >> >> > >> >> Clair > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: "Marty Schmid" > >> >> To: "Charles Woock" ; > >> >> Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM > >> >> Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > >> >> > dis-abled > >> >> the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the > >> >> vats, is it enabled or disabled > >> >> > > >> >> > --------------------------------- > >> >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > >> >> > Great > >> >> rates starting at 1?/min. > >> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >> > Diy_efi mailing list > >> >> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> >> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> >> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Diy_efi mailing list > >> > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > -- > > "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new > > criminals."-- John Tandervold > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 11 01:12:11 2006 From: galaxiecustom500 at sbcglobal.net (Jason M.) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 02:12:11 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor References: <08mni2dih8th9liettgekn7d8m3dhvmaoq@4ax.com><12907.70.168.146.244.1160504332.squirrel@www.donegan.org> <003c01c6ec9d$37b7f0a0$4101a8c0@BILLYBOB> Message-ID: <003401c6ecfc$31948ad0$4101a8c0@BILLYBOB> Looked into what we have, Our old wideband is a innovate motorsports LC-1 www.tuneyourengine.com. They have it listed for $190. Our new one is from tech edge, http://wbo2.com/2a0/ it's a wideband/datalogger. Not sure exactly what model we purchased as a DIY kit ~$210 au or ~$157USD. This doesn't include a sensor ~$80 - ~$140 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason M." To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor >I was told the wideband controler we use for ohio state's formula sae team >cost around $150. Was a kit that came as a bare board and bags of >components. I'll try to find out more about it tonight. Generally we just >feed the data to a dyno program on a laptop for engine dyno tuning. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven P. Donegan" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] wideband O2 monitor > > >> Unfortunately it isn't as simple as 0-5v the wideband O2 'controller' is >> a >> fairly complex thing. The cheapest complete system I know of is called an >> LC-1 or LC-2 - <200$... >> >>> anyone here know of a wiring schematic and possibly some freeware >>> drivers to monitor wideband O2 data via serial port? >>> >>> ...Yeah im cheap i know but i cant bring myself to pay between 3 and >>> 600 dollars for something that's so simple as 0-5v. >>> >>> Mike >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Diy_efi mailing list >>> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >>> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From don.broadus at exeloncorp.com Wed Oct 11 08:28:50 2006 From: don.broadus at exeloncorp.com (don.broadus at exeloncorp.com) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:28:50 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER Message-ID: I posted an injector driver circuit on The Twiki page. Adjustable for 0-10 msec pulse width, 555 trigger or external pulse (pip for Ford systems) Can drive 2 12 ohm injectors per channel for a total of 4 injectors batch fired. Change the output transistor for more current. -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Charles Woock Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 9:03 PM To: Rick McLeod; diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER Do you have a schematic for this or know where it is on the web? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick McLeod" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... to test, build a quick and dirty injector testor w/ a 555 and a power trans/FET set up to slow rate pulse and hook up to the 'jector to see if it squirts when the fuel log is presureized ----- Original Message ---- From: Andrew Hopton To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 10:51:38 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Hi, Actually, 12v at both pins of the injector is good (provided eng is not running) - because your multimeter is at least 1MOhm (and probably 10MOhm) it provides no appreciable load, so you will measure 12v at both sides of the injector's internal coil (there will only be a voltage drop across the injector coil when current is actually flowing - i.e. when the ECM grounds the 'cold' side of the injector. By seeing 12v at both sides of the injector coil, you have proved the injector is not internally open-circuit (aka 'fried') Cheers, Hoppy. -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Clair Davis Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2006 10:51 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... Update... OK, the multimeter says I've got 12V at BOTH pins on the injector... Me thinks that's not so good, and probably not what VATS does. I also pulled the PROM out, mostly to verify to myself that I DID in fact have it in the box, and judging by the scribbles on the chip, the guy who programmed it probably DID do the right thing(s) with it. I'll shoot him an email and see what he can dig up on the project. In the mean time, I've got to do some digging myself and see what I've done when hooking the system up. There's NOT a separate wire for the injector power, so I'm thinking it is worked in to some other junction in the system. Time to go take some notes. Clair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty Schmid" To: "Charles Woock" ; Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing... > what prom are you using if it is camaro, moat likely vats has > dis-abled the injectors. you need to have a scan tool connected and look at the vats, is it enabled or disabled > > --------------------------------- > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1?/min. > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi ----------------------------------------- ************************************************** This e-mail and any of its attachments may contain Exelon Corporation proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to the Exelon Corporation family of Companies. This e-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this e-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this e-mail and any printout. Thank You. ************************************************** From dunvegan at sbcglobal.net Wed Oct 11 09:19:46 2006 From: dunvegan at sbcglobal.net (Rick McLeod) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:19:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061011141946.46638.qmail@web80509.mail.yahoo.com> I just looked at the actual product I use, it is 'Greased Ligntning' which I buy in gallon jugs at my local Lowes home center here in midwestern US ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Ravet To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 11:25:12 PM Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? "goop" or other emulsifying hand cleaner works well, with lots of rags or paper towels. --steve > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:42 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? > > Hi > Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness > without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use > harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to > clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. > The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. > > Thanks > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From A6intruder at myo-p.com Wed Oct 11 09:21:01 2006 From: A6intruder at myo-p.com (Daniel Nicoson) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:21:01 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For the price of a MS you could have the Moates equipment and have FULL control of your EEC-V, no hardware hacks etc. You mentioned cost being a significant issue here. Properly controlling your tune is easily as important as any other parts you may have bolted on. Those parts often turn to junk without proper control of operating parameters. Don't short sell yourself on proper control of the engine. Good luck with the project. Dan Nicoson -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Ben P Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:02 PM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning no distributor to rotate... I should see if I can do that to the cam angle sensor though, as a dizzy fits into the same hole. And I came across an interesting theory on www.fordforums.com.au (the '400hp for $5000' thread in the eseries section, my username there is BLSTIC). Apparently its possible for the megasquirt ecu to use the cam angle sensor while the ford ecu is also using it. This can lead to full megasquirt spark control, with the ford computer injecting its usual amount of fuel for non boosted conditions, and the megasquirt also supplying extra fuel (via another set of six injectors) under boost conditions only. The only problem with this approach is that the cam angle sensor signal is too weak for the ford computer to function properly (as it is also being 'used' by the megasquirt), leading to fuel injection problems. If that were to be done, the only reason I would want the ford computer still there is to control the dash, auto trans, trip computer, and diagnostic functions. It also cuts out a lot of mapping. thoughts? Ben >From: "Mike" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 > >At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: > > >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV Car >(with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? > >You could use the standard mechanical route, >rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should be >able to >get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) >distributor >(in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in case >there isnt >enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a bracket. >I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if not >too long quite stable... > > > > > >Regards from > > >Mike Massen >Network Power Systems >Lab 08 9444 8961 >Mb 0438 048961 >Perth, Western Australia >* VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! >* RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials >* Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars >* Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the >best > oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. >Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&referr al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=246 5§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From bbowling at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 10:33:45 2006 From: bbowling at earthlink.net (Bruce A Bowling) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:33:45 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER Message-ID: <3592140.1160580826131.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I made an injector tester some years back, all info is here: http://www.bgsoflex.com/fitester.html I know that there is a group buy going on on the Ms list right now for this (www.msefi.com - look at the expansion board sub-forum). It may be closed but if there was sufficient interest I am sure there could be another round. - Bruce From efi_dude at narwani.org Wed Oct 11 16:03:34 2006 From: efi_dude at narwani.org (Neil) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:03:34 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? In-Reply-To: <20061011141946.46638.qmail@web80509.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061011141946.46638.qmail@web80509.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200610111603.34952.efi_dude@narwani.org> I'm looking at doing the same now (cleaning up a harness), but with all of these suggested chemicals/cleaning agents, is it acceptable to let the cleaning agent come in contact with the metal pins? Or are we carefully rubbing the outside of the wires only. -Neil. On Wednesday 11 October 2006 09:19, Rick McLeod wrote: > I just looked at the actual product I use, it is 'Greased Ligntning' which > I buy in gallon jugs at my local Lowes home center here in midwestern US > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Steve Ravet > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Sent: Monday, October 9, 2006 11:25:12 PM > Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? > > > "goop" or other emulsifying hand cleaner works well, with lots of rags > or paper towels. > > --steve > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org > > [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Mike > > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:42 AM > > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subject: [Diy_efi] Cleaning a wire harness? > > > > Hi > > Does anyone have a good way of cleaning a wire harness > > without damaging the wire and connectors. I don't want to use > > harsh chemicals or solvents on my harness but I would like to > > clean it, remove unused wires, then retape and replace the split loom. > > The harness is from a 91 GM Full size Van. > > > > Thanks > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Diy_efi mailing list > > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From benof1987 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 23:51:45 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:51:45 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yeah. I did hear something about the standard computer being unable to cope with more than about 12psi, no matter how modified. Is that true, or is that just a MAP sensor limitation? and how do you go about changing the calibration of the map sensor on a factory computer when you change it (to one that reads higher)? thanks Ben >From: "Daniel Nicoson" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:21:01 -0400 > >For the price of a MS you could have the Moates equipment and have FULL >control of your EEC-V, no hardware hacks etc. > >You mentioned cost being a significant issue here. Properly controlling >your tune is easily as important as any other parts you may have bolted on. >Those parts often turn to junk without proper control of operating >parameters. Don't short sell yourself on proper control of the engine. > >Good luck with the project. > >Dan Nicoson > >-----Original Message----- >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Ben P >Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:02 PM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > > >no distributor to rotate... > >I should see if I can do that to the cam angle sensor though, as a dizzy >fits into the same hole. > >And I came across an interesting theory on www.fordforums.com.au (the >'400hp >for $5000' thread in the eseries section, my username there is BLSTIC). >Apparently its possible for the megasquirt ecu to use the cam angle sensor >while the ford ecu is also using it. This can lead to full megasquirt spark >control, with the ford computer injecting its usual amount of fuel for non >boosted conditions, and the megasquirt also supplying extra fuel (via >another set of six injectors) under boost conditions only. The only problem >with this approach is that the cam angle sensor signal is too weak for the >ford computer to function properly (as it is also being 'used' by the >megasquirt), leading to fuel injection problems. > >If that were to be done, the only reason I would want the ford computer >still there is to control the dash, auto trans, trip computer, and >diagnostic functions. It also cuts out a lot of mapping. > >thoughts? >Ben > > >From: "Mike" > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 > > > >At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: > > > > >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV Car > >(with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? > > > >You could use the standard mechanical route, > >rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should be > >able to > >get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) > >distributor > >(in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in case > >there isnt > >enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a >bracket. > >I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if not > >too long quite stable... > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards from > > > > > >Mike Massen > >Network Power Systems > >Lab 08 9444 8961 > >Mb 0438 048961 > >Perth, Western Australia > >* VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! > >* RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials > >* Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars > >* Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the > >best > > oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. > >Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_________________________________________________________________ >See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&referr >al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=246 >5§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ Find out how to win FREE Fuel at tradingpost.com.au - Click here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpostcompetition%2Ecom%2Eau%2Ffuelgiveaway%3Freferrer%3Dplace11&_t=758874118&_r=HM_Tagline_Oct06&_m=EXT From cdifani at pacbell.net Thu Oct 12 00:05:30 2006 From: cdifani at pacbell.net (Chris Difani) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:05:30 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER References: <3592140.1160580826131.JavaMail.root@elwamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <035d01c6edbc$0b0ffeb0$0400000a@panteraoffice> Guys: Long time lurker here, but I did find out about the injector tester that was mentioned earlier today/yesterday (the day's blur when you're having fun). There is a "buy" going on (or gone on), but there's not many of the kits left. If you're interested, email t3bunny at yahoo.com and ask him about the tester kit. The kits (at least this is the pricing he gave me) are $49, plus $11 for shipping. This is supposed to be all that you'll need, with the exception of a fuel pump, reservoir, graduated cylinder for flow tests, and other miscellaneous "stuff". When I talked with him, he said he didn't have many of the kits left as of today (had the feeling that we're talking "less than 10"). Evidently the main IC that is the heart of this tester is no longer manufactured, so I suspect that once these kits are gone, they truly are "gone". Chris Chris Difani '73 L #5829 "LITNNG" Sacramento, CA Email: cdifani at pacbell.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce A Bowling" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER >I made an injector tester some years back, all info is here: > > http://www.bgsoflex.com/fitester.html > > I know that there is a group buy going on on the Ms list right now for > this (www.msefi.com - look at the expansion board sub-forum). It may be > closed but if there was sufficient interest I am sure there could be > another round. > > - Bruce > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From A6intruder at myo-p.com Thu Oct 12 08:14:09 2006 From: A6intruder at myo-p.com (Daniel Nicoson) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:14:09 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Most likely that is a sensor limitation. Within the software you can re-scale the tables to accept a larger range of operation. Why don't you go to the Moates site and pull down Paul Booth's free software. See if he has your EEC "de-coded". If yours isn't decoded, find a similar EEC and load up those definition files. Open it all up and start to get to know how these things work. Paul does "de-code" different EEC's that are requested all the time. It might take a few weeks for him to get to it (it's his hobby time too) but usually it gets done. There may be other free software on that web site I'm simply familiar with Paul's software. If you are running in excess of 12 psi you've got a serious motor on your hands. Tune it well... Dan Nicoson -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Ben P Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 12:52 AM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning yeah. I did hear something about the standard computer being unable to cope with more than about 12psi, no matter how modified. Is that true, or is that just a MAP sensor limitation? and how do you go about changing the calibration of the map sensor on a factory computer when you change it (to one that reads higher)? thanks Ben >From: "Daniel Nicoson" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:21:01 -0400 > >For the price of a MS you could have the Moates equipment and have FULL >control of your EEC-V, no hardware hacks etc. > >You mentioned cost being a significant issue here. Properly controlling >your tune is easily as important as any other parts you may have bolted on. >Those parts often turn to junk without proper control of operating >parameters. Don't short sell yourself on proper control of the engine. > >Good luck with the project. > >Dan Nicoson > >-----Original Message----- >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Ben P >Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:02 PM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > > >no distributor to rotate... > >I should see if I can do that to the cam angle sensor though, as a dizzy >fits into the same hole. > >And I came across an interesting theory on www.fordforums.com.au (the >'400hp >for $5000' thread in the eseries section, my username there is BLSTIC). >Apparently its possible for the megasquirt ecu to use the cam angle sensor >while the ford ecu is also using it. This can lead to full megasquirt spark >control, with the ford computer injecting its usual amount of fuel for non >boosted conditions, and the megasquirt also supplying extra fuel (via >another set of six injectors) under boost conditions only. The only problem >with this approach is that the cam angle sensor signal is too weak for the >ford computer to function properly (as it is also being 'used' by the >megasquirt), leading to fuel injection problems. > >If that were to be done, the only reason I would want the ford computer >still there is to control the dash, auto trans, trip computer, and >diagnostic functions. It also cuts out a lot of mapping. > >thoughts? >Ben > > >From: "Mike" > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 > > > >At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: > > > > >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV Car > >(with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? > > > >You could use the standard mechanical route, > >rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should be > >able to > >get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) > >distributor > >(in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in case > >there isnt > >enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a >bracket. > >I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if not > >too long quite stable... > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards from > > > > > >Mike Massen > >Network Power Systems > >Lab 08 9444 8961 > >Mb 0438 048961 > >Perth, Western Australia > >* VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! > >* RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials > >* Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars > >* Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the > >best > > oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. > >Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_________________________________________________________________ >See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&refer r >al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=24 6 >5§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ Find out how to win FREE Fuel at tradingpost.com.au - Click here http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpostcompetition %2Ecom%2Eau%2Ffuelgiveaway%3Freferrer%3Dplace11&_t=758874118&_r=HM_Tagline_O ct06&_m=EXT _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu Thu Oct 12 15:43:34 2006 From: torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F6rn_Forsman?=) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:43:34 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <452EA8F6.4050201@gengas.nu> As far as i know, all Ford MAP sensors output a square wave whose frequency is a function of the absolute pressure. All of them, the stand-alone MAP sensors used with EEC-V and most EEC-IV, as well as the sensors integrated in ESC-II ECUs, seem to have roughly the same transfer function. It is easily measured with an oscilloscope or frequency counter. Of course, a computer with a sound card and suitable software (for example, Cool Edit), can also be used for measuring the output frequency. Most other EFI manufacturers use, however, MAP sensors with a DC output. This is true for GM and a lot of japanese and european systems. But beware, some of them outputs an increasing voltage with increasing absolute pressure, while others give a decreasing voltage. Best regards Torbj?rn Forsman Daniel Nicoson wrote: > Ben, > > The lowest cost way to tune EEC-V that I am aware of is the Moates hardware > at www.moates.net > > I use the TwEECer on my EEC-IV. This device works on EEC-V too. > www.tweecer.com > > I'm not sure about the map sensors. I am used to MAF sensors, they use a > 0-5volt signal. Does your EEC-V use a map? > > Dan Nicoson > > -----Original Message----- > From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On > Behalf Of Ben P > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 6:02 AM > To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > > Hi people, I'm just trying to find out whether it is possible to tune the > ford EEC-V computers, as found in the 1994-2002 Ford Falcons. > > I have heard that it is possible using a special expander board, but I am > unsure how this works. > > I have also heard of a flash tuner being released to alter maps via the > diagnostics port, but the companies that do this charge way too much. Does > anyone know how this is done and whether or not it is possible for the > diy-er to do this themselves? > > and the last EEC-V question: Do the map sensors for these falcons output a > voltage or a frequency? I have heard both, and am a little confused. > > thanks > Ben > > _________________________________________________________________ > See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! > http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referr > al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&pa > ge=killers > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu Thu Oct 12 15:56:44 2006 From: torbjorn.forsman at gengas.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F6rn_Forsman?=) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:56:44 +0200 Subject: [Diy_efi] RE: BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? In-Reply-To: <000301c6ebec$8b78d940$0600a8c0@CC2> References: <000301c6ebec$8b78d940$0600a8c0@CC2> Message-ID: <452EAC0C.30102@gengas.nu> A Motronic 1.3 system from around 1990 will surely have an EPROM (not flash prom). It is usually a 27256 or 27C256 part although it will be marked with a Bosch designation (for example, B57604). A good way of identifying the system is to look at the Bosch part number on the ECU. The ML 1.3 systems (also called 1.5 by some car manufacturers) usually have numbers in the range 0 261 200 150 to 0 261 200 199. When searching for tuning resources, remember that this (and similar) Motronic systems are used on many european cars, not just BMW. For example, Citro?n, Opel and Peugeot. There is a lot of software revisions in early Motronic ECUs. It is not uncommon to find 3 or 4 different softwares in identical ECUs from the same model year! There seems to be two different table formats, with the change to the newer one made in 1988. The same two table formats are used in both ML1.3 and the older (!) ML4.1 . For identification of binary files, the Bosch part number and car manufacturer's part number of the ECU and the bin part number (marked on a sticker on the EPROM) are always stored as ascii (backwards!) somewhere in the file. For example, if the ECU is marked 0 261 200 158, the ascii string 8510021620 will be found somewhere in the bin, with the other numbers nearby. Best regards Torbj?rn Forsman Chris wrote: > Jeff - > I was waiting for someone who knows better than me speak up, but I'll give > the fuzzy memory a poke here... > When I was at the dealership we had a guy in house that did that on the > older cars with the EPROMS (pull it out and flash it). I'm not sure now as > to exact model years, but I think the general rule is if you have the big > screw on diagnostic connector, it is EEPROM, and factory tuning updates are > flashed through the diagnostic connector. If you have the small push on > diagnostic connector, it is EPROM and factory updates are done via chip > replacement. I also remember there being exceptions to that rule. > There used to be a very active USENET group specifically for BMW EFI modders > - it is worth a look. The guys on the USENET group were talking about > modifying a reset tool to use as a connector for flashing the EEPROM from a > laptop once upon a time, but it is probably better to just buy a cable, if > not the software. > I seem to remember Dinan being the king of the hill in that department (ECM > tuning software, connectors, and such), I'm sure a quick Google search will > get you there. At least you should be able to quickly ID what options are > for your car based on what they offer. > Last, but not least, the source for your camshaft may have a pre-calibrated > chip or a one-shot flasher for your setup. > > I know, not the answer you were looking for, but hopefully at least a little > help. > > > -----Original Message----- > > Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 09:51:46 -0700 > From: "JS Nord" > Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW Motronic 1.3 table editing? > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hello, > > New arriver to the list here. Thanks for having me - great resource. > > My interest is in being able to modify the fuel and timing maps for used in > the BMW E34 535i, Bosch motronic version 1.3. I'd like to be able to do to > help tune out a modified engine that includes a displacement increase and > cam shaft change (no forced induction) > > I'm curious if anyone on the list has experiance in understanding the > mapping structure associated with this version of Motronic. > > I'm also curious if anyone has experiance in using this tool from Atlantis > software that seems to have the ability to edit the motronic tables > http://www.atlantisconsultingllc.com/atlantis.php?page=Motronic%20Editor > Best case would be someone who's used this tool on the BMW 1.3 motronic and > has the offsets for all the tables with some real world experiance on how > well this tool works. > > Anyone have any thoughts on past discussions or projects in this area that > might help me get started? > > Cheers! > > Jeff > 90 BMW 535i > > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > From bbowling at earthlink.net Thu Oct 12 20:57:18 2006 From: bbowling at earthlink.net (Bruce A Bowling) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 21:57:18 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER Message-ID: <24698615.1160704638679.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hi Chris, I was not aware that the processor was getting hard to get. I know that the part has migrated to a lead free part number (mc68hc908jl3ecp), the original part number is not available. I did check Digi-key and I do see that they do not stock very many of these. The processor is old and there are billions of better, cheaper solutions that could work here. The whole FI tester is interesting in that I get about 3 emails a month from people looking to duplicate this circuit, looking for PCBs and programmed processors. I never really put much thought into making an updated version - I was under the impression that there was not much of a demand for this. If there is interest then I could spend an afternoon and port the code over to another processor and post an updated version Any of the HC08 or HCS08 processors would be an easy code swap, the timers are identical, just need to be adjusted for changes in bus frequency. - Bruce -----Original Message----- >From: Chris Difani >Sent: Oct 12, 2006 1:05 AM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER > >Guys: > >Long time lurker here, but I did find out about the injector tester that >was mentioned earlier today/yesterday (the day's blur when you're having >fun). > >There is a "buy" going on (or gone on), but there's not many of the kits >left. If you're interested, email t3bunny at yahoo.com and ask him about the >tester kit. The kits (at least this is the pricing he gave me) are $49, plus >$11 for shipping. This is supposed to be all that you'll need, with the >exception of a fuel pump, reservoir, graduated cylinder for flow tests, and >other miscellaneous "stuff". > >When I talked with him, he said he didn't have many of the kits left as of >today (had the feeling that we're talking "less than 10"). Evidently the >main IC that is the heart of this tester is no longer manufactured, so I >suspect that once these kits are gone, they truly are "gone". > >Chris > >Chris Difani >'73 L #5829 "LITNNG" >Sacramento, CA >Email: cdifani at pacbell.net > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bruce A Bowling" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:33 AM >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > >>I made an injector tester some years back, all info is here: >> >> http://www.bgsoflex.com/fitester.html >> >> I know that there is a group buy going on on the Ms list right now for >> this (www.msefi.com - look at the expansion board sub-forum). It may be >> closed but if there was sufficient interest I am sure there could be >> another round. >> >> - Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> Diy_efi mailing list >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From steve at donegan.org Thu Oct 12 21:04:24 2006 From: steve at donegan.org (Steven P. Donegan) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:04:24 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER In-Reply-To: <24698615.1160704638679.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <24698615.1160704638679.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1160705064.31043.3.camel@perky.donegan.org> Let me know what the code was trying to accomplish and I'll use my base PIC circuit (RS-232 comms) to do the same thing - I assume just pulse width and frequency? Given my board fab a run of 20 boards (bare) would be <5$/board... On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 21:57 -0400, Bruce A Bowling wrote: > Hi Chris, > > I was not aware that the processor was getting hard to get. I know that the part has migrated to a lead free part number (mc68hc908jl3ecp), the original part number is not available. I did check Digi-key and I do see that they do not stock very many of these. > > The processor is old and there are billions of better, cheaper solutions that could work here. The whole FI tester is interesting in that I get about 3 emails a month from people looking to duplicate this circuit, looking for PCBs and programmed processors. I never really put much thought into making an updated version - I was under the impression that there was not much of a demand for this. If there is interest then I could spend an afternoon and port the code over to another processor and post an updated version Any of the HC08 or HCS08 processors would be an easy code swap, the timers are identical, just need to be adjusted for changes in bus frequency. > > - Bruce > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Chris Difani > >Sent: Oct 12, 2006 1:05 AM > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER > > > >Guys: > > > >Long time lurker here, but I did find out about the injector tester that > >was mentioned earlier today/yesterday (the day's blur when you're having > >fun). > > > >There is a "buy" going on (or gone on), but there's not many of the kits > >left. If you're interested, email t3bunny at yahoo.com and ask him about the > >tester kit. The kits (at least this is the pricing he gave me) are $49, plus > >$11 for shipping. This is supposed to be all that you'll need, with the > >exception of a fuel pump, reservoir, graduated cylinder for flow tests, and > >other miscellaneous "stuff". > > > >When I talked with him, he said he didn't have many of the kits left as of > >today (had the feeling that we're talking "less than 10"). Evidently the > >main IC that is the heart of this tester is no longer manufactured, so I > >suspect that once these kits are gone, they truly are "gone". > > > >Chris > > > >Chris Difani > >'73 L #5829 "LITNNG" > >Sacramento, CA > >Email: cdifani at pacbell.net > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Bruce A Bowling" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:33 AM > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > > > > >>I made an injector tester some years back, all info is here: > >> > >> http://www.bgsoflex.com/fitester.html > >> > >> I know that there is a group buy going on on the Ms list right now for > >> this (www.msefi.com - look at the expansion board sub-forum). It may be > >> closed but if there was sufficient interest I am sure there could be > >> another round. > >> > >> - Bruce > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi -- "Each new law makes only a single guarantee. It will create new criminals."-- John Tandervold From benof1987 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 21:10:24 2006 From: benof1987 at hotmail.com (Ben P) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:10:24 +1000 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yeah i shot him off an email about it. Currently there are no australian definition files though. But I am having a look through some 97 luxo barge (i think its a lincoln) and the stuff I can do is incredible. Ill have to change shift points to take advantage of the turbo torque too... none of this 5500rpm change crap... as long as I can find a replacement map sensor that can reliably read high enough, its ok. Any ideas what I could pull one off? nah, not a serious motor really. the grand plan is 320rwhp from port/polish, cam, and boost. A lot higher power has been seen from these motors with that amount of work (try 380rwkw on for size. 22psi on C16 though, but all the EL wrecker motor had inside was a cam, and a mild port job). But I want some kind of reliability and boost below 3000rpm. Car (dead stock) currently has 136rwhp, with 330,000km worth of wear and no new parts (plugs, leads, oils, and filters excepted), 148 with all the intake piping off. Thanks Ben >From: "Daniel Nicoson" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:14:09 -0400 > >Most likely that is a sensor limitation. Within the software you can >re-scale the tables to accept a larger range of operation. > >Why don't you go to the Moates site and pull down Paul Booth's free >software. See if he has your EEC "de-coded". If yours isn't decoded, find >a similar EEC and load up those definition files. Open it all up and start >to get to know how these things work. Paul does "de-code" different EEC's >that are requested all the time. It might take a few weeks for him to get >to it (it's his hobby time too) but usually it gets done. > >There may be other free software on that web site I'm simply familiar with >Paul's software. > >If you are running in excess of 12 psi you've got a serious motor on your >hands. Tune it well... > >Dan Nicoson > >-----Original Message----- >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Ben P >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 12:52 AM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >yeah. I did hear something about the standard computer being unable to cope >with more than about 12psi, no matter how modified. Is that true, or is >that >just a MAP sensor limitation? > >and how do you go about changing the calibration of the map sensor on a >factory computer when you change it (to one that reads higher)? > >thanks >Ben > > > >From: "Daniel Nicoson" > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >To: > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:21:01 -0400 > > > >For the price of a MS you could have the Moates equipment and have FULL > >control of your EEC-V, no hardware hacks etc. > > > >You mentioned cost being a significant issue here. Properly controlling > >your tune is easily as important as any other parts you may have bolted >on. > >Those parts often turn to junk without proper control of operating > >parameters. Don't short sell yourself on proper control of the engine. > > > >Good luck with the project. > > > >Dan Nicoson > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On > >Behalf Of Ben P > >Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:02 PM > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > > > > > >no distributor to rotate... > > > >I should see if I can do that to the cam angle sensor though, as a dizzy > >fits into the same hole. > > > >And I came across an interesting theory on www.fordforums.com.au (the > >'400hp > >for $5000' thread in the eseries section, my username there is BLSTIC). > >Apparently its possible for the megasquirt ecu to use the cam angle >sensor > >while the ford ecu is also using it. This can lead to full megasquirt >spark > >control, with the ford computer injecting its usual amount of fuel for >non > >boosted conditions, and the megasquirt also supplying extra fuel (via > >another set of six injectors) under boost conditions only. The only >problem > >with this approach is that the cam angle sensor signal is too weak for >the > >ford computer to function properly (as it is also being 'used' by the > >megasquirt), leading to fuel injection problems. > > > >If that were to be done, the only reason I would want the ford computer > >still there is to control the dash, auto trans, trip computer, and > >diagnostic functions. It also cuts out a lot of mapping. > > > >thoughts? > >Ben > > > > >From: "Mike" > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > > >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 > > > > > >At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: > > > > > > >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV >Car > > >(with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? > > > > > >You could use the standard mechanical route, > > >rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should >be > > >able to > > >get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) > > >distributor > > >(in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in >case > > >there isnt > > >enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a > >bracket. > > >I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if >not > > >too long quite stable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards from > > > > > > > > >Mike Massen > > >Network Power Systems > > >Lab 08 9444 8961 > > >Mb 0438 048961 > > >Perth, Western Australia > > >* VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! > > >* RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials > > >* Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars > > >* Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the > > >best > > > oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. > > >Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Diy_efi mailing list > > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! > >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&refer >r > >al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=24 >6 > >5§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find out how to win FREE Fuel at tradingpost.com.au - Click here >http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpostcompetition >%2Ecom%2Eau%2Ffuelgiveaway%3Freferrer%3Dplace11&_t=758874118&_r=HM_Tagline_O >ct06&_m=EXT > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referral=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&page=killers From rrubel at toad.net Thu Oct 12 21:22:12 2006 From: rrubel at toad.net (Rich Rubel) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:22:12 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] DataMaster "10k Ohm resistor modification?" In-Reply-To: <20061013021422.60F2DFB882@beast.toad.net> References: <20061013021422.60F2DFB882@beast.toad.net> Message-ID: I'm trying to use the demo of TTS's DataMaster monitoring software on my 86 Corvette (350ci, manual trans) and cannot get the ECM to sync with the software. On their website, there's a note that to use the software one must perform the "10k ohm resistor modification" to the ALDL interface. However, nowhere does it actually say what that modification IS. I called their tech support and haven't heard back from them yet. Does anyone here have any ideas? One person told me to just put the resistor between terminals A & B on the ALDL port. Tried that, and it didn't work. However, my ALDL cable is a bit different than most - instead of plugging into the socket and needing a custom plug, it's a normal 9-pin serial cable hardwired into the BACK of the interface. Then another adapter is used to make the signal readable by the laptop. So it's possible that with my setup I need the resistor between two lines on the cable instead... or perhaps not. Any thoughts? Thanks. [RICHR] From A6intruder at myo-p.com Thu Oct 12 21:36:22 2006 From: A6intruder at myo-p.com (Daniel Nicoson) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:36:22 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try turboford.com Most of those guys run the 2.3 turbo, they run BOOST, some still MAP. How about the early Lightning guys, those motors were MAP and had boost? I haven't really worked with MAP at all since my 1994 Mustang is MAF. Dan Nicoson -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On Behalf Of Ben P Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 10:10 PM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning yeah i shot him off an email about it. Currently there are no australian definition files though. But I am having a look through some 97 luxo barge (i think its a lincoln) and the stuff I can do is incredible. Ill have to change shift points to take advantage of the turbo torque too... none of this 5500rpm change crap... as long as I can find a replacement map sensor that can reliably read high enough, its ok. Any ideas what I could pull one off? nah, not a serious motor really. the grand plan is 320rwhp from port/polish, cam, and boost. A lot higher power has been seen from these motors with that amount of work (try 380rwkw on for size. 22psi on C16 though, but all the EL wrecker motor had inside was a cam, and a mild port job). But I want some kind of reliability and boost below 3000rpm. Car (dead stock) currently has 136rwhp, with 330,000km worth of wear and no new parts (plugs, leads, oils, and filters excepted), 148 with all the intake piping off. Thanks Ben >From: "Daniel Nicoson" >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >To: >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:14:09 -0400 > >Most likely that is a sensor limitation. Within the software you can >re-scale the tables to accept a larger range of operation. > >Why don't you go to the Moates site and pull down Paul Booth's free >software. See if he has your EEC "de-coded". If yours isn't decoded, find >a similar EEC and load up those definition files. Open it all up and start >to get to know how these things work. Paul does "de-code" different EEC's >that are requested all the time. It might take a few weeks for him to get >to it (it's his hobby time too) but usually it gets done. > >There may be other free software on that web site I'm simply familiar with >Paul's software. > >If you are running in excess of 12 psi you've got a serious motor on your >hands. Tune it well... > >Dan Nicoson > >-----Original Message----- >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Ben P >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 12:52 AM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >yeah. I did hear something about the standard computer being unable to cope >with more than about 12psi, no matter how modified. Is that true, or is >that >just a MAP sensor limitation? > >and how do you go about changing the calibration of the map sensor on a >factory computer when you change it (to one that reads higher)? > >thanks >Ben > > > >From: "Daniel Nicoson" > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >To: > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:21:01 -0400 > > > >For the price of a MS you could have the Moates equipment and have FULL > >control of your EEC-V, no hardware hacks etc. > > > >You mentioned cost being a significant issue here. Properly controlling > >your tune is easily as important as any other parts you may have bolted >on. > >Those parts often turn to junk without proper control of operating > >parameters. Don't short sell yourself on proper control of the engine. > > > >Good luck with the project. > > > >Dan Nicoson > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On > >Behalf Of Ben P > >Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:02 PM > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > > > > > >no distributor to rotate... > > > >I should see if I can do that to the cam angle sensor though, as a dizzy > >fits into the same hole. > > > >And I came across an interesting theory on www.fordforums.com.au (the > >'400hp > >for $5000' thread in the eseries section, my username there is BLSTIC). > >Apparently its possible for the megasquirt ecu to use the cam angle >sensor > >while the ford ecu is also using it. This can lead to full megasquirt >spark > >control, with the ford computer injecting its usual amount of fuel for >non > >boosted conditions, and the megasquirt also supplying extra fuel (via > >another set of six injectors) under boost conditions only. The only >problem > >with this approach is that the cam angle sensor signal is too weak for >the > >ford computer to function properly (as it is also being 'used' by the > >megasquirt), leading to fuel injection problems. > > > >If that were to be done, the only reason I would want the ford computer > >still there is to control the dash, auto trans, trip computer, and > >diagnostic functions. It also cuts out a lot of mapping. > > > >thoughts? > >Ben > > > > >From: "Mike" > > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > > >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 > > > > > >At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: > > > > > > >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV >Car > > >(with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? > > > > > >You could use the standard mechanical route, > > >rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should >be > > >able to > > >get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) > > >distributor > > >(in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in >case > > >there isnt > > >enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a > >bracket. > > >I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if >not > > >too long quite stable... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards from > > > > > > > > >Mike Massen > > >Network Power Systems > > >Lab 08 9444 8961 > > >Mb 0438 048961 > > >Perth, Western Australia > > >* VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! > > >* RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials > > >* Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars > > >* Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the > > >best > > > oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. > > >Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Diy_efi mailing list > > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! > >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&refer >r > >al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=24 >6 > >5§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find out how to win FREE Fuel at tradingpost.com.au - Click here >http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpostcompetitio n >%2Ecom%2Eau%2Ffuelgiveaway%3Freferrer%3Dplace11&_t=758874118&_r=HM_Tagline_ O >ct06&_m=EXT > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi _________________________________________________________________ See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referr al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&pa ge=killers _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From ebuckler at icehouse.net Thu Oct 12 22:53:13 2006 From: ebuckler at icehouse.net (Ernest Buckler) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 20:53:13 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] eBay Seller: dentedtwo: Guitar, Industrial Electrical Test items on eBay.com Message-ID: <038201c6ee7b$1bec7ff0$0300a8c0@clive> Builders might want to check out this ebay listing, bulk deals on chips and eproms. This is surplus, so he also sells chips per the usual method, if you stay in touch with him. OT, also some older guitars, etc. Ernie http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZdentedtwo From tmc_mike_yates at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 13 12:04:53 2006 From: tmc_mike_yates at sbcglobal.net (Mike Yates) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 10:04:53 -0700 Subject: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2nhvi2535j8klddsnvcpmaqikf64fsic8l@4ax.com> Correction the early lightnings had no boost they were NA and the second, and last generation, of lightnings are MAF sensored. On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:36:22 -0400, you wrote: >Try turboford.com Most of those guys run the 2.3 turbo, they run BOOST, >some still MAP. How about the early Lightning guys, those motors were MAP >and had boost? > >I haven't really worked with MAP at all since my 1994 Mustang is MAF. > >Dan Nicoson > >-----Original Message----- >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >Behalf Of Ben P >Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 10:10 PM >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning > >yeah i shot him off an email about it. Currently there are no australian >definition files though. But I am having a look through some 97 luxo barge >(i think its a lincoln) and the stuff I can do is incredible. Ill have to >change shift points to take advantage of the turbo torque too... none of >this 5500rpm change crap... > >as long as I can find a replacement map sensor that can reliably read high >enough, its ok. Any ideas what I could pull one off? > >nah, not a serious motor really. the grand plan is 320rwhp from port/polish, >cam, and boost. A lot higher power has been seen from these motors with that >amount of work (try 380rwkw on for size. 22psi on C16 though, but all the EL >wrecker motor had inside was a cam, and a mild port job). But I want some >kind of reliability and boost below 3000rpm. Car (dead stock) currently has >136rwhp, with 330,000km worth of wear and no new parts (plugs, leads, oils, >and filters excepted), 148 with all the intake piping off. > >Thanks >Ben > > > > >>From: "Daniel Nicoson" >>Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>To: >>Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:14:09 -0400 >> >>Most likely that is a sensor limitation. Within the software you can >>re-scale the tables to accept a larger range of operation. >> >>Why don't you go to the Moates site and pull down Paul Booth's free >>software. See if he has your EEC "de-coded". If yours isn't decoded, find >>a similar EEC and load up those definition files. Open it all up and start >>to get to know how these things work. Paul does "de-code" different EEC's >>that are requested all the time. It might take a few weeks for him to get >>to it (it's his hobby time too) but usually it gets done. >> >>There may be other free software on that web site I'm simply familiar with >>Paul's software. >> >>If you are running in excess of 12 psi you've got a serious motor on your >>hands. Tune it well... >> >>Dan Nicoson >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >>Behalf Of Ben P >>Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 12:52 AM >>To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >> >>yeah. I did hear something about the standard computer being unable to cope >>with more than about 12psi, no matter how modified. Is that true, or is >>that >>just a MAP sensor limitation? >> >>and how do you go about changing the calibration of the map sensor on a >>factory computer when you change it (to one that reads higher)? >> >>thanks >>Ben >> >> >> >From: "Daniel Nicoson" >> >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >To: >> >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >> >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:21:01 -0400 >> > >> >For the price of a MS you could have the Moates equipment and have FULL >> >control of your EEC-V, no hardware hacks etc. >> > >> >You mentioned cost being a significant issue here. Properly controlling >> >your tune is easily as important as any other parts you may have bolted >>on. >> >Those parts often turn to junk without proper control of operating >> >parameters. Don't short sell yourself on proper control of the engine. >> > >> >Good luck with the project. >> > >> >Dan Nicoson >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org]On >> >Behalf Of Ben P >> >Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 7:02 PM >> >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >> > >> > >> >no distributor to rotate... >> > >> >I should see if I can do that to the cam angle sensor though, as a dizzy >> >fits into the same hole. >> > >> >And I came across an interesting theory on www.fordforums.com.au (the >> >'400hp >> >for $5000' thread in the eseries section, my username there is BLSTIC). >> >Apparently its possible for the megasquirt ecu to use the cam angle >>sensor >> >while the ford ecu is also using it. This can lead to full megasquirt >>spark >> >control, with the ford computer injecting its usual amount of fuel for >>non >> >boosted conditions, and the megasquirt also supplying extra fuel (via >> >another set of six injectors) under boost conditions only. The only >>problem >> >with this approach is that the cam angle sensor signal is too weak for >>the >> >ford computer to function properly (as it is also being 'used' by the >> >megasquirt), leading to fuel injection problems. >> > >> >If that were to be done, the only reason I would want the ford computer >> >still there is to control the dash, auto trans, trip computer, and >> >diagnostic functions. It also cuts out a lot of mapping. >> > >> >thoughts? >> >Ben >> > >> > >From: "Mike" >> > >Reply-To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> > >Subject: RE: [Diy_efi] EEC-V Tuning >> > >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:47:47 +0800 >> > > >> > >At 02:07 PM 10/10/06, you wrote: >> > > >> > > >Can anyone think of a way to retard the ignition timing on an EECV >>Car >> > >(with coil packs, no distributor) under boost only? >> > > >> > >You could use the standard mechanical route, >> > >rig up a diaphragm, such as the type which runs the waste gate, should >>be >> > >able to >> > >get them quite cheap nowadays and use this to rotate the (loosened) >> > >distributor >> > >(in the right direction of course), could use a lever arm as well in >>case >> > >there isnt >> > >enough motion, dead simple way to do it, just need to fabricate a >> >bracket. >> > >I'd suggest 1.6 to 2mm plate aluminium, easy to cut and drill and if >>not >> > >too long quite stable... >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >Regards from >> > > >> > > >> > >Mike Massen >> > >Network Power Systems >> > >Lab 08 9444 8961 >> > >Mb 0438 048961 >> > >Perth, Western Australia >> > >* VL/VK Commodore Fuse Rail that wont warp or melt ! >> > >* RB30 Skyline/Nissan/VL Milspec now in economy trials >> > >* Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars >> > >* Industrial grade PolyVinyliDeneChloride (PVDC Copolymer) in bulk, the >> > >best >> > > oxygen and water protective barrier you can find for circuit boards. >> > >Web site under construction http://niche.iinet.net.au >> > >_______________________________________________ >> > >Diy_efi mailing list >> > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > >> >_________________________________________________________________ >> >See Jet live in LA. Download music for a chance to win! >> >>http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=721&refer >>r >> >>al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://music.ninemsn.com.au/section.aspx?sectionid=24 >>6 >> >5§ionname=artistfeature&subsectionid=5692&subsectionname=jet >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Diy_efi mailing list >> >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >Diy_efi mailing list >> >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >> >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >> >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Find out how to win FREE Fuel at tradingpost.com.au - Click here >>http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpostcompetitio >n >>%2Ecom%2Eau%2Ffuelgiveaway%3Freferrer%3Dplace11&_t=758874118&_r=HM_Tagline_ >O >>ct06&_m=EXT >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Diy_efi mailing list >>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Diy_efi mailing list >>Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >>Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >>Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_________________________________________________________________ >See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referr >al=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&pa >ge=killers > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From bpatten at centurytel.net Fri Oct 13 21:54:13 2006 From: bpatten at centurytel.net (Brendan Patten) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:54:13 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] DataMaster "10k Ohm resistor modification?" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c6ef3c$07f6f860$6400a8c0@p42000> What you are doing is enabling the high speed data mode on the computer. The 10K resistor does go between A and B (these are the same two pins you short to get trouble codes) leave your hardwired serial cable as is, and add the resistor. Now my experience is the resistor is only needed to get it started after that data will continue till you disconnect power down ECM. This happened to me last week. I was data logging a 1989 TPI setup and data was doing fine and I noticed my resistor popped out, but it was still running. Anywho, that's my 2 cents worth. -----Original Message----- From: diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org [mailto:diy_efi-bounces at diy-efi.org] On Behalf Of Rich Rubel Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:22 PM To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subject: [Diy_efi] DataMaster "10k Ohm resistor modification?" I'm trying to use the demo of TTS's DataMaster monitoring software on my 86 Corvette (350ci, manual trans) and cannot get the ECM to sync with the software. On their website, there's a note that to use the software one must perform the "10k ohm resistor modification" to the ALDL interface. However, nowhere does it actually say what that modification IS. I called their tech support and haven't heard back from them yet. Does anyone here have any ideas? One person told me to just put the resistor between terminals A & B on the ALDL port. Tried that, and it didn't work. However, my ALDL cable is a bit different than most - instead of plugging into the socket and needing a custom plug, it's a normal 9-pin serial cable hardwired into the BACK of the interface. Then another adapter is used to make the signal readable by the laptop. So it's possible that with my setup I need the resistor between two lines on the cable instead... or perhaps not. Any thoughts? Thanks. [RICHR] _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From rrubel at toad.net Mon Oct 16 21:53:48 2006 From: rrubel at toad.net (Rich Rubel) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 22:53:48 -0400 Subject: [Diy_efi] Re: 10k resistor modification In-Reply-To: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> Message-ID: <1646E74C-E33C-4B8E-9704-C2134853813E@toad.net> Thank you. I'll try it again; maybe it wasn't making contact right in the socket. [RICHR] On Oct 14, 2006, at 13:00, diy_efi-request at diy-efi.org wrote: > What you are doing is enabling the high speed data mode on the > computer. > The 10K resistor does go between A and B (these are the same two pins > you short to get trouble codes) leave your hardwired serial cable > as is, > and add the resistor. > > Now my experience is the resistor is only needed to get it started > after > that data will continue till you disconnect power down ECM. This > happened to me last week. I was data logging a 1989 TPI setup and > data > was doing fine and I noticed my resistor popped out, but it was still > running. From niche at iinet.net.au Thu Oct 19 12:55:19 2006 From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:55:19 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link In-Reply-To: <1646E74C-E33C-4B8E-9704-C2134853813E@toad.net> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> <1646E74C-E33C-4B8E-9704-C2134853813E@toad.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020015414.026bd290@iinet.net.au>> For the technically minded ;-) http://www.siemensvdo.com/press/releases/powertrain/2006/SV_200604_002_e.htm Regards from Mike Perth, Western Australia VK/VL Commodore Fuse Rail panel that wont warp, twist or melt, guaranteed ! Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars http://niche.iinet.net.au From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Thu Oct 19 22:30:06 2006 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:30:06 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020015414.026bd290@iinet.net.au> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> <1646E74C-E33C-4B8E-9704-C2134853813E@toad.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20061020015414.026bd290@iinet.net.au>> Message-ID: <200610201130.06245@death.2.spammers> On Friday 20 October 2006 01:55, Mike wrote: > For the technically minded ;-) > > Hmmm... don't see much technical content. You may be able to see more by visiting a co-developer a little to the North of your location, Mike. :-) Piezo-triggered unit-injectors for diesel engines have been shipping for a while now in Europe. The former VW-Mechatronic.com web site used to have some technical details of those units, but that site also now redirects to SiemensVDO. This is a worrying trend: Instead of the WWW providing ready access to technical information from the manufacturer, it's beginning to be filtered out and reduced to glossy brochures. They won't talk to you unless you're buying ~10,000 units/month because that's not "cost-effective". So the small innovator is diverted from a primary goal to having to re-invent lots of wheels. e.g. diesel injectors capable of metering down to around 1 mg/stroke. [Which btw the VW-Mechatronic site said it'd achieve with the piezo unit injector. NO specs @ SiemensVDO.] -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "If we let things terrify us, X against HTML mail | life will not be worth living." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. From niche at iinet.net.au Fri Oct 20 00:46:37 2006 From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 13:46:37 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link In-Reply-To: <200610201130.06245@death.2.spammers> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> <1646E74C-E33C-4B8E-9704-C2134853813E@toad.net> <7.0.1.0.0.20061020015414.026bd290@iinet.net.au> <200610201130.06245@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020133622.0281c580@iinet.net.au>> At 11:30 AM 10/20/06, you wrote: >On Friday 20 October 2006 01:55, Mike wrote: >> For the technically minded ;-) >> >> > >Hmmm... don't see much technical content. Hence the 'wink' in my email, >You may be able to see more by visiting a co-developer a little to >the North of your location, Mike. :-) Yes we know about 'them', turned down a job with them in mid 80's, glad I did, three people I know who joined them, all left remonstrating huge issues with management. An independent contractor who had his fuel saving system 'checked' by them had it sabotaged, clear cut case of hoses with pin hole leaks arranged to point to exhaust etc Have irrefutable evidence of this sadly... >Piezo-triggered unit-injectors for diesel engines have been shipping >for a while now in Europe. The former VW-Mechatronic.com web site >used to have some technical details of those units, but that site >also now redirects to SiemensVDO. > Yes, the point about the article is that is petrol and pintle adjustable for each cylinder, Eaton did have piezo injectors around 30 years ago, still have the blurb somewhere circa 1977, >This is a worrying trend: Instead of the WWW providing ready access >to technical information from the manufacturer, it's beginning to be >filtered out and reduced to glossy brochures. They won't talk to >you unless you're buying ~10,000 units/month because that's not >"cost-effective". > >So the small innovator is diverted from a primary goal to having to >re-invent lots of wheels. e.g. diesel injectors capable of metering >down to around 1 mg/stroke. [Which btw the VW-Mechatronic site said >it'd achieve with the piezo unit injector. NO specs @ SiemensVDO.] Not at all, though it does dissuade those without the combination of focus and funds, it doesnt stop those who have a plan and for those that dont have a plan it doesnt stop you if you are suitably enthusiastic to procure the part and put it to the appropriate regimes of tests ? *grin* Mike >-- >/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia >\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "If we let things terrify us, > X against HTML mail | life will not be worth living." >/ \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. > > >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi Regards from Mike Perth, Western Australia VK/VL Commodore Fuse Rail panel that wont warp, twist or melt, guaranteed ! Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars http://niche.iinet.net.au From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Oct 24 18:47:30 2006 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:47:30 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061020133622.0281c580@iinet.net.au> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> <200610201130.06245@death.2.spammers> <7.0.1.0.0.20061020133622.0281c580@iinet.net.au>> Message-ID: <200610250747.30090@death.2.spammers> On Friday 20 October 2006 13:46, Mike wrote: > At 11:30 AM 10/20/06, you wrote: > >On Friday 20 October 2006 01:55, Mike wrote: > >> For the technically minded ;-) > >> > >> >>2_e.htm> > > > >Hmmm... don't see much technical content. > Hence the 'wink' in my email, > >Piezo-triggered unit-injectors for diesel engines have been shipping > >for a while now in Europe. The former VW-Mechatronic.com web site > >used to have some technical details of those units, but that site > >also now redirects to SiemensVDO. > > >/page/produkt_piezo.htm> > > Yes, the point about the article is that is petrol and pintle > adjustable for each cylinder, Eaton did have piezo injectors > around 30 years ago, still have the blurb somewhere circa 1977, The piezo stack is a key element and appears to be very similar to that in the PPD. > >So the small innovator is diverted from a primary goal to having to > >re-invent lots of wheels. e.g. diesel injectors capable of metering > >down to around 1 mg/stroke. [Which btw the VW-Mechatronic site said > >it'd achieve with the piezo unit injector. NO specs @ SiemensVDO.] > Not at all, though it does dissuade those without the combination of > focus and funds, it doesnt stop those who have a plan and for those that > dont have a plan it doesnt stop you if you are suitably enthusiastic to > procure the part and put it to the appropriate regimes of tests ? > > *grin* Suitably enthusiastic to buy a part at $2000 each, without the ECU? I assume that "suitably" also means that one be well financed by other means. Or perhaps you mean suitably enthusiastic to break into cars and to steal the parts.. Perhaps it'd be far too straightforward for manufacturers to publish the specifications of the devices that they sell instead of encouraging vehicle theft! ;-) -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "If we let things terrify us, X against HTML mail | life will not be worth living." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. From niche at iinet.net.au Wed Oct 25 09:13:10 2006 From: niche at iinet.net.au (Mike) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 22:13:10 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link In-Reply-To: <200610250747.30090@death.2.spammers> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> <200610201130.06245@death.2.spammers> <7.0.1.0.0.20061020133622.0281c580@iinet.net.au> <200610250747.30090@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061025141605.026fc560@iinet.net.au>> At 07:47 AM 10/25/06, you wrote: >> Yes, the point about the article is that is petrol and pintle >> adjustable for each cylinder, Eaton did have piezo injectors >> around 30 years ago, still have the blurb somewhere circa 1977, > >The piezo stack is a key element and appears to be very similar to >that in the PPD. Sorry too many acronyms here, I'll have to look up PPD. The old eaton injector was shaped just like a stainless horn of classic exponential shape, ball at small end held in (partly) by fuel pressure and signal activation caused this narrow end to oscillate from 40K to 60KHz, I recall Eaton reporting improved fuel atomisation and projected fuel economy gains of 5 to 10% over the standard injectors of the time but, dont have article to hand, will be going through my store at some point and will look out for it. I do recall the construction appeared rather simpler than the unit I posted the link about, but then again the Eaton unit was designed for manifold injection, perhaps TBI type and not one per cylinder etc But cant be 100% sure as its only on memory, think I did make mention of it in my engineering thesis on efi in 1982, thats the last I recall, I did ask for a price, was around $120 (back then) if the units went into pilot - have the letter also in stores... >> >So the small innovator is diverted from a primary goal to having to >> >re-invent lots of wheels. e.g. diesel injectors capable of metering >> >down to around 1 mg/stroke. [Which btw the VW-Mechatronic site said >> >it'd achieve with the piezo unit injector. NO specs @ SiemensVDO.] > >> Not at all, though it does dissuade those without the combination of >> focus and funds, it doesnt stop those who have a plan and for those that >> dont have a plan it doesnt stop you if you are suitably enthusiastic to >> procure the part and put it to the appropriate regimes of tests ? >> >> *grin* > >Suitably enthusiastic to buy a part at $2000 each, without the ECU? >I assume that "suitably" also means that one be well financed by >other means. Bernd, If you have an idle enquiry, ie. to just get a part and mess with it for no particular plan then it might well be sensible that the manufacturers dissuade such time wasting with the method they have thus so far employed. I take it the quote for the part at AUD/USD $2000 is accurate and in any case may not be that high if you consider its meant for stratified charge applications where a considerable expense is likely to be outlayed in engine mechanics, sort of precludes casual enquirers therefore $2000 is not unreasonable but my point is that if you have good reason and have a plan you might get it for far less etc This price from factory in Europe or AutoClassic (as spare part) in Burswood, WA ? If its an Autoclassic spare part price then be advised this includes a high profit margin so BMW Australila can get lower customs duty price on cars and parts as the higher than normal profit margin is accounted for by customs as "local content" which does significantly reduce their customs impost (not kidding)...! So you'd get a much better price I would expect from factory if you approached them carefully. btw: The BMW bi-turbo 2997cc (with the piezo direct petrol injection) goes for approx AUD$125,000 (incl some $7200 stamp duty) which is not that bad for a coupe with 225Kw/400Nm on tap and 9L/100Km highway cycle... AutoClassic have a couple of demo models and a special offer so you can probably take one for a test drive, currently they are sold out till late March, For the short term though, I'd rather put $2000 getting that power from my RB30ET as its already 165Kw (auto) and last spirited country trip i got 9.5L/100Km... (going country again in 2 months, hope to get down to 8.5L with other mods)... And yes, you will need to plan your finances along with your goal, the "financed by other means" that you suggest is the standard way one does business when undertaking research, especially so where a projected commercial outcome is pursued. ie You have/obtain capital and decide where to best apply it, this is normal "other means" i would have thought or where your approach includes debt funding then you have a suitable upside amortisation plan etc etc. >Or perhaps you mean suitably enthusiastic to break into cars and to >steal the parts.. Please recall these posts end up in an archive, you are telling people that your first thought and interpretation of enthusiastic action is (even if you are joking) somewhat criminal in nature, ie Not strategic :( Bernd, Here is one suggested 'enthusiastic' course:- Find the key people/department to make decisions in the company you are approaching, get on the phone to them, follow up with fax and/or letter describing your plan and requesting assistance (be polite and show you understand commerce and business development at that level), in other words basic commercial intelligence gathering in concert with your plan and representation of your intention and methods to pursue etc Oh and do this with some expediency upon any first response, there is nothing worse than taking time to respond to the first contact return as you lose the momentum and demonstrate lack of focus, Hang on, dont you speak German (?), you are rather better prepared to pursue that than most, yet you are implying a negative/criminal course of action. If you approach a company in the right manner and with a plan you are often able to get hold of a part for nothing and might even get it including freight...! (I have done this on a few occasions since 1981 when I put EFI into my 1600cc ford escort xflow). Here is another (possible) rather more "enthusiastic" course:- Enrole at Carlisle tech into automotive engineering selected units, do a few engine/transmission units, propose a plan to tech college dean for specialist injectors for their single cylinder test engine, you might then get to play with one for free though might take a few months, maybe enrole in a commercial psychology unit at the same time and save travel costs for sheer strategy purposes ;-) >Perhaps it'd be far too straightforward for manufacturers to publish >the specifications of the devices that they sell instead of >encouraging vehicle theft! ;-) Think about it Bernd, It might be early days, in that the particular product is not (AFAIK) yet in large scale distribution so company may well be following a rather sensible strategy to dissuade time wasters using up resources asking inappropriate questions on (initial) published specs, ie Those idle enquiries from people who dont have a plan. In any tech organisation there are likely conflicting priorities, (IMHO) its not sensible to prematurely publish specs thus entertaining all sorts of vague enquiries from people when the primary focus should be on delivering the parts and variations and all that goes with it and the requisite followups with existing (major) customers such as BMW. ie. The company probably has a wise selection criteria and this strategy doesnt include premature spec publication (well, detailled ones at any rate). Have you emailled, rang or faxed the company and the specific department to get a full spec sheet yet (?), do you have a plan to use/try the product (?), how about contacting the dept responsible for the collation and publishing of the spec etc ? I'm guessing your knee jerk to my post in response to yours side-stepped that... >/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia From the nature of your remonstration, I reckon you'll need some "Innovative Commercial Psychology" *grin* In closing, lets see if we can craft a perspective that is beyond mere reaction :P Regards from Mike Perth, Western Australia VK/VL Commodore Fuse Rail panel that wont warp, twist or melt, guaranteed ! Twin tyres for most sedans, trikes and motorcycle sidecars http://niche.iinet.net.au From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Wed Oct 25 11:23:34 2006 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:23:34 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061025141605.026fc560@iinet.net.au> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> <200610250747.30090@death.2.spammers> <7.0.1.0.0.20061025141605.026fc560@iinet.net.au>> Message-ID: <200610260023.34130@death.2.spammers> On Wednesday 25 October 2006 22:13, Mike wrote: > At 07:47 AM 10/25/06, you wrote: > >> Yes, the point about the article is that is petrol and pintle > >> adjustable for each cylinder, Eaton did have piezo injectors > >> around 30 years ago, still have the blurb somewhere circa 1977, > >The piezo stack is a key element and appears to be very similar to > >that in the PPD. > Sorry too many acronyms here, I'll have to look up PPD. Piezo-Pumpe-D?se > >> >So the small innovator is diverted from a primary goal to > >> >having to re-invent lots of wheels. e.g. diesel injectors > >> >capable of metering down to around 1 mg/stroke. [Which btw the > >> >VW-Mechatronic site said it'd achieve with the piezo unit > >> >injector. NO specs @ SiemensVDO.] > >> Not at all, though it does dissuade those without the > >> combination of focus and funds, it doesnt stop those who have a > >> plan and for those that dont have a plan it doesnt stop you if > >> you are suitably enthusiastic to procure the part and put it to > >> the appropriate regimes of tests ? > >Suitably enthusiastic to buy a part at $2000 each, without the ECU? > >I assume that "suitably" also means that one be well financed by > >other means. > Bernd, > If you have an idle enquiry, ie. to just get a part and mess with > it for no particular plan then it might well be sensible that the > manufacturers dissuade such time wasting with the method they have > thus so far employed. There is a particular plan that I don't wish to discuss in technical detail as yet; but it's NOT to do with making lots of money - at least for me. Knowing what key components are on the shelf and how suitable they are for the intended purpose is crucial to selecting the right components without wasting a lot of time. If the specifications aren't published, then it is a waste of time to pursue that option. A supplier who publishes specs or an "in-house" development from a blank sheet is a more viable prospect for sourcing the parts. > I take it the quote for the part at AUD/USD $2000 is accurate and > in any case may not be that high if you consider its meant for > stratified charge applications where a considerable expense is > likely to be outlayed in engine mechanics, sort of precludes > casual enquirers therefore $2000 is not unreasonable but my point > is that if you have good reason and have a plan you might get it > for far less etc I'm not referring to the petrol injector. > So you'd get a much better price I would expect from factory if you > approached them carefully. I've tried in the past. Travelled to the manufacturer. Spoke to them face to face. They are NOT interested unless you're committed to buying large quantities. Either that; or they want a big piece of your pie. I'm not prepared to compromise the project by giving it away for somebody else to profit. > >Or perhaps you mean suitably enthusiastic to break into cars and to > >steal the parts.. > > Please recall these posts end up in an archive, you are telling people > that your first thought and interpretation of enthusiastic action is > (even if you are joking) somewhat criminal in nature, ie Not strategic :( Mike: Read what I've written. You seem to have read something else. > Hang on, dont you speak German (?), you are rather better prepared > to pursue that than most, yet you are implying a negative/criminal > course of action. If you approach a company in the right manner and I have not implied criminal action. Merely posed if your definition of "suitably enthusiastic" encompasses such activity. > with a plan you are often able to get hold of a part for nothing and > might even get it including freight...! (I have done this on a few > occasions since 1981 when I put EFI into my 1600cc ford escort xflow). > Here is another (possible) rather more "enthusiastic" course:- > Enrole at Carlisle tech into automotive engineering selected > units, do a few engine/transmission units, propose a plan to tech You're joking I hope. I'm almost 50 years old. Had a B.E. (Mech.) since 1983 and actually worked as an R&D Engineer for the crowd that later moved from Morley to Balcatta. I'd be thrown out of Carlisle Tech in the first half hour. > college dean for specialist injectors for their single cylinder > test engine, you might then get to play with one for free though > might take a few months, maybe enrole in a commercial psychology > unit at the same time and save travel costs for sheer strategy > purposes ;-) So other forms of dishonesty/insincerity are OK? Is that a good basis for a long-term (business) relationship? > >Perhaps it'd be far too straightforward for manufacturers to > >publish the specifications of the devices that they sell instead > >of encouraging vehicle theft! ;-) > It might be early days, in that the particular product is not > (AFAIK) yet in large scale distribution so company may well be PPD has been in volume production for almost a year. Production numbers have, judging by the number of vehicles equipped with the same, probably exceeded a quarter of a million. Information about their functionality disappeared to be replaced by a "glossy brochure". SiemensVDO are not unique. The Bosch Automotive Handbook used to contain lots of real-world numbers so that the reader could get a sense of proportion.... but since the 5th (English) Edition, that's being noticeably edited out to include "more content" that glosses over new wizz-bang stuff. The technicians are being trained to be sales channels. There's at best a remote possibility of them understanding what they are actually replacing/selling. If they can't understand how things are supposed to work, then how can they figure out what's going wrong? It's all good for the bean-counters though as millions of functioning parts are replaced slavishly under "guided fault finding"; all at the cost to the consumer. > following a rather sensible strategy to dissuade time wasters > using up resources asking inappropriate questions on (initial) > published specs, ie Those idle enquiries from people who dont have ... and people who want the specs are automatically considered time-wasters. Whose time is it wasting? Bearings catalogues and fastener specifications contain enough information for Engineers to decide what they need to get to build their machinery. Materials data sheets let Engineers select the right materials for components. Industrial gearboxes come with comprehensive specifications. That doesn't waste the time of Engineers trying to get information on components... it makes the Engineers more efficient. There's no technical reason why such cannot be provided by manufacturers of fuel injectors. Do you like being tied up on the phone, fax, email trying to get specifications for components? Perhaps from one of half a dozen possible suppliers? Is that more efficient than clicking on the link to download a specification PDF? > a plan. In any tech organisation there are likely conflicting > priorities, (IMHO) its not sensible to prematurely publish specs > thus entertaining all sorts of vague enquiries from people when > the primary focus should be on delivering the parts and variations > and all that goes with it and the requisite followups with > existing (major) customers such as BMW. ie. The company probably > has a wise selection criteria and this strategy doesnt include > premature spec publication (well, detailled ones at any rate). Get your hand off it Mike. They are protecting the specification so that competitors (who have their "moles" in each others houses anyway) don't have a convenient point of performance to meet. That's how the muddle managers probably view it. To protect their "IP" at all costs. And cynics might believe that there's nothing really flash about the "new stuff" because it's not significantly better than the old; selling at 10% of the price because there are established, alternative sources. > Have you emailled, rang or faxed the company and the specific > department to get a full spec sheet yet (?), do you have a plan to > use/try the product (?), how about contacting the dept responsible for > the collation and publishing of the spec etc ? IME; complete WOFTAM. Wasted many hours emailing and on the phone. I don't bother to plan or try using a product if I can't get the ^*&^@#ing specifications. Engineering is applied science. You look at your requirements and then select what fits those requirements. If the requirements say X to Y mg/cycles at up to Z cycles/second, then that is what is needed to do the job. Why should an Engineer have to get on the phone to half a dozen other Engineers to do the initial product search? Data sheets with basic specifications are a no-brainer. Whose time is being wasted by lack of published specifications? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "If we let things terrify us, X against HTML mail | life will not be worth living." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. From d at davidhunt.net Mon Oct 30 09:04:37 2006 From: d at davidhunt.net (d at davidhunt.net) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:04:37 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net><200610250747.30090@death.2.spammers><7.0.1.0.0.20061025141605.026fc560@iinet.net.au>> <200610260023.34130@death.2.spammers> Message-ID: <001101c6fc34$b8e9d930$1664a8c0@Independent> I'm curious. 1) If the fuel is delivered to the back of the intake valve and allowed to heat - is the 'atomization' required? I realize that a larger O2 charge is available if the fuel evaporates in the chamber, but what if full evaporation is the actual requirement? 2) If the fuel is evaporated at the intake valve, is there a serious problem mixing fuel with O2 in the chamber? dh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernd Felsche" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link On Wednesday 25 October 2006 22:13, Mike wrote: > At 07:47 AM 10/25/06, you wrote: > >> Yes, the point about the article is that is petrol and pintle > >> adjustable for each cylinder, Eaton did have piezo injectors > >> around 30 years ago, still have the blurb somewhere circa 1977, > >The piezo stack is a key element and appears to be very similar to > >that in the PPD. > Sorry too many acronyms here, I'll have to look up PPD. Piezo-Pumpe-D?se > >> >So the small innovator is diverted from a primary goal to > >> >having to re-invent lots of wheels. e.g. diesel injectors > >> >capable of metering down to around 1 mg/stroke. [Which btw the > >> >VW-Mechatronic site said it'd achieve with the piezo unit > >> >injector. NO specs @ SiemensVDO.] > >> Not at all, though it does dissuade those without the > >> combination of focus and funds, it doesnt stop those who have a > >> plan and for those that dont have a plan it doesnt stop you if > >> you are suitably enthusiastic to procure the part and put it to > >> the appropriate regimes of tests ? > >Suitably enthusiastic to buy a part at $2000 each, without the ECU? > >I assume that "suitably" also means that one be well financed by > >other means. > Bernd, > If you have an idle enquiry, ie. to just get a part and mess with > it for no particular plan then it might well be sensible that the > manufacturers dissuade such time wasting with the method they have > thus so far employed. There is a particular plan that I don't wish to discuss in technical detail as yet; but it's NOT to do with making lots of money - at least for me. Knowing what key components are on the shelf and how suitable they are for the intended purpose is crucial to selecting the right components without wasting a lot of time. If the specifications aren't published, then it is a waste of time to pursue that option. A supplier who publishes specs or an "in-house" development from a blank sheet is a more viable prospect for sourcing the parts. > I take it the quote for the part at AUD/USD $2000 is accurate and > in any case may not be that high if you consider its meant for > stratified charge applications where a considerable expense is > likely to be outlayed in engine mechanics, sort of precludes > casual enquirers therefore $2000 is not unreasonable but my point > is that if you have good reason and have a plan you might get it > for far less etc I'm not referring to the petrol injector. > So you'd get a much better price I would expect from factory if you > approached them carefully. I've tried in the past. Travelled to the manufacturer. Spoke to them face to face. They are NOT interested unless you're committed to buying large quantities. Either that; or they want a big piece of your pie. I'm not prepared to compromise the project by giving it away for somebody else to profit. > >Or perhaps you mean suitably enthusiastic to break into cars and to > >steal the parts.. > > Please recall these posts end up in an archive, you are telling people > that your first thought and interpretation of enthusiastic action is > (even if you are joking) somewhat criminal in nature, ie Not strategic :( Mike: Read what I've written. You seem to have read something else. > Hang on, dont you speak German (?), you are rather better prepared > to pursue that than most, yet you are implying a negative/criminal > course of action. If you approach a company in the right manner and I have not implied criminal action. Merely posed if your definition of "suitably enthusiastic" encompasses such activity. > with a plan you are often able to get hold of a part for nothing and > might even get it including freight...! (I have done this on a few > occasions since 1981 when I put EFI into my 1600cc ford escort xflow). > Here is another (possible) rather more "enthusiastic" course:- > Enrole at Carlisle tech into automotive engineering selected > units, do a few engine/transmission units, propose a plan to tech You're joking I hope. I'm almost 50 years old. Had a B.E. (Mech.) since 1983 and actually worked as an R&D Engineer for the crowd that later moved from Morley to Balcatta. I'd be thrown out of Carlisle Tech in the first half hour. > college dean for specialist injectors for their single cylinder > test engine, you might then get to play with one for free though > might take a few months, maybe enrole in a commercial psychology > unit at the same time and save travel costs for sheer strategy > purposes ;-) So other forms of dishonesty/insincerity are OK? Is that a good basis for a long-term (business) relationship? > >Perhaps it'd be far too straightforward for manufacturers to > >publish the specifications of the devices that they sell instead > >of encouraging vehicle theft! ;-) > It might be early days, in that the particular product is not > (AFAIK) yet in large scale distribution so company may well be PPD has been in volume production for almost a year. Production numbers have, judging by the number of vehicles equipped with the same, probably exceeded a quarter of a million. Information about their functionality disappeared to be replaced by a "glossy brochure". SiemensVDO are not unique. The Bosch Automotive Handbook used to contain lots of real-world numbers so that the reader could get a sense of proportion.... but since the 5th (English) Edition, that's being noticeably edited out to include "more content" that glosses over new wizz-bang stuff. The technicians are being trained to be sales channels. There's at best a remote possibility of them understanding what they are actually replacing/selling. If they can't understand how things are supposed to work, then how can they figure out what's going wrong? It's all good for the bean-counters though as millions of functioning parts are replaced slavishly under "guided fault finding"; all at the cost to the consumer. > following a rather sensible strategy to dissuade time wasters > using up resources asking inappropriate questions on (initial) > published specs, ie Those idle enquiries from people who dont have ... and people who want the specs are automatically considered time-wasters. Whose time is it wasting? Bearings catalogues and fastener specifications contain enough information for Engineers to decide what they need to get to build their machinery. Materials data sheets let Engineers select the right materials for components. Industrial gearboxes come with comprehensive specifications. That doesn't waste the time of Engineers trying to get information on components... it makes the Engineers more efficient. There's no technical reason why such cannot be provided by manufacturers of fuel injectors. Do you like being tied up on the phone, fax, email trying to get specifications for components? Perhaps from one of half a dozen possible suppliers? Is that more efficient than clicking on the link to download a specification PDF? > a plan. In any tech organisation there are likely conflicting > priorities, (IMHO) its not sensible to prematurely publish specs > thus entertaining all sorts of vague enquiries from people when > the primary focus should be on delivering the parts and variations > and all that goes with it and the requisite followups with > existing (major) customers such as BMW. ie. The company probably > has a wise selection criteria and this strategy doesnt include > premature spec publication (well, detailled ones at any rate). Get your hand off it Mike. They are protecting the specification so that competitors (who have their "moles" in each others houses anyway) don't have a convenient point of performance to meet. That's how the muddle managers probably view it. To protect their "IP" at all costs. And cynics might believe that there's nothing really flash about the "new stuff" because it's not significantly better than the old; selling at 10% of the price because there are established, alternative sources. > Have you emailled, rang or faxed the company and the specific > department to get a full spec sheet yet (?), do you have a plan to > use/try the product (?), how about contacting the dept responsible for > the collation and publishing of the spec etc ? IME; complete WOFTAM. Wasted many hours emailing and on the phone. I don't bother to plan or try using a product if I can't get the ^*&^@#ing specifications. Engineering is applied science. You look at your requirements and then select what fits those requirements. If the requirements say X to Y mg/cycles at up to Z cycles/second, then that is what is needed to do the job. Why should an Engineer have to get on the phone to half a dozen other Engineers to do the initial product search? Data sheets with basic specifications are a no-brainer. Whose time is being wasted by lack of published specifications? -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "If we let things terrify us, X against HTML mail | life will not be worth living." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD. _______________________________________________ Diy_efi mailing list Diy_efi at diy-efi.org Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From d at davidhunt.net Mon Oct 30 09:05:44 2006 From: d at davidhunt.net (d at davidhunt.net) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:05:44 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER References: <24698615.1160704638679.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <001701c6fc34$e0e375e0$1664a8c0@Independent> Bruce, I'd be glad to port the hardware to a coldfire. dh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce A Bowling" To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER > Hi Chris, > > I was not aware that the processor was getting hard to get. I know that the part has migrated to a lead free part number (mc68hc908jl3ecp), the original part number is not available. I did check Digi-key and I do see that they do not stock very many of these. > > The processor is old and there are billions of better, cheaper solutions that could work here. The whole FI tester is interesting in that I get about 3 emails a month from people looking to duplicate this circuit, looking for PCBs and programmed processors. I never really put much thought into making an updated version - I was under the impression that there was not much of a demand for this. If there is interest then I could spend an afternoon and port the code over to another processor and post an updated version Any of the HC08 or HCS08 processors would be an easy code swap, the timers are identical, just need to be adjusted for changes in bus frequency. > > - Bruce > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Chris Difani > >Sent: Oct 12, 2006 1:05 AM > >To: diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injector TESTER > > > >Guys: > > > >Long time lurker here, but I did find out about the injector tester that > >was mentioned earlier today/yesterday (the day's blur when you're having > >fun). > > > >There is a "buy" going on (or gone on), but there's not many of the kits > >left. If you're interested, email t3bunny at yahoo.com and ask him about the > >tester kit. The kits (at least this is the pricing he gave me) are $49, plus > >$11 for shipping. This is supposed to be all that you'll need, with the > >exception of a fuel pump, reservoir, graduated cylinder for flow tests, and > >other miscellaneous "stuff". > > > >When I talked with him, he said he didn't have many of the kits left as of > >today (had the feeling that we're talking "less than 10"). Evidently the > >main IC that is the heart of this tester is no longer manufactured, so I > >suspect that once these kits are gone, they truly are "gone". > > > >Chris > > > >Chris Difani > >'73 L #5829 "LITNNG" > >Sacramento, CA > >Email: cdifani at pacbell.net > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Bruce A Bowling" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:33 AM > >Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] Injectors Not Firing TESTER > > > > > >>I made an injector tester some years back, all info is here: > >> > >> http://www.bgsoflex.com/fitester.html > >> > >> I know that there is a group buy going on on the Ms list right now for > >> this (www.msefi.com - look at the expansion board sub-forum). It may be > >> closed but if there was sufficient interest I am sure there could be > >> another round. > >> > >> - Bruce > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Diy_efi mailing list > >> Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >> Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >> Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Diy_efi mailing list > >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > _______________________________________________ > Diy_efi mailing list > Diy_efi at diy-efi.org > Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi > Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi > > From fox at hiwaay.net Tue Oct 31 13:46:49 2006 From: fox at hiwaay.net (fox at hiwaay.net) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:46:49 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Diy_efi] Porsche electronic fuel injection Message-ID: <1162324009.4547a8296ba81@webmail.hiwaay.net> Hi - Does anyone know the name of the company that makes an electronic FI conversion for 911 Porsches with CIS injection ('78 to '83)? Charlie From bobqzzi at cox.net Tue Oct 31 13:55:06 2006 From: bobqzzi at cox.net (Bobqzzi) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:55:06 -0500 Subject: [Diy_efi] Porsche electronic fuel injection In-Reply-To: <1162324009.4547a8296ba81@webmail.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20061031145426.00b6ffc0@pop.east.cox.net> Rensport 50 Tripp Street, # 16 Framingham, MA 01702 508-875-8911 Fax: 508-872-7361 Email: rensport at cs.com I've seen the development done on the dyno- excellent power and driveabilty. At 01:46 PM 10/31/2006 -0600, you wrote: >Hi - > >Does anyone know the name of the company that makes an electronic FI >conversion for 911 Porsches with CIS injection ('78 to '83)? > >Charlie >_______________________________________________ >Diy_efi mailing list >Diy_efi at diy-efi.org >Subscribe: http://lists.diy-efi.org/mailman/listinfo/diy_efi >Main WWW page: http://www.diy-efi.org/diy_efi From mls928 at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 31 14:06:20 2006 From: mls928 at sbcglobal.net (Mike) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:06:20 -0600 Subject: [Diy_efi] Porsche electronic fuel injection In-Reply-To: <1162324009.4547a8296ba81@webmail.hiwaay.net> References: <1162324009.4547a8296ba81@webmail.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20061031140538.030f1200@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> www.bitzracing.com Mike At 01:46 PM 10/31/06, you wrote: >Hi - > >Does anyone know the name of the company that makes an electronic FI >conversion for 911 Porsches with CIS injection ('78 to '83)? > >Charlie From espresso_doppio at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 14:49:11 2006 From: espresso_doppio at yahoo.com (Adam Wade) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 12:49:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Diy_efi] Porsche electronic fuel injection In-Reply-To: <1162324009.4547a8296ba81@webmail.hiwaay.net> Message-ID: <20061031204911.88288.qmail@web32208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- fox at hiwaay.net wrote: > Does anyone know the name of the company that makes > an electronic FI conversion for 911 Porsches with CIS > injection ('78 to '83)? TWM has throttle bodies with fuel rail and regulator... I knwo that for sure. They may have an appropriate ECU for you to work with as well, or you could do something yourself (convert a GM unit, build a MegaSquirt, etc.) just using their throttle bodies. | Kawasaki Zephyr 615 (Daphne) Kawasaki Zephyr 550 (Velma)| | "It was like an emergency ward after a great catastrophe; it | | didn't matter what race or class the victims belonged to. | | They were all given the same miracle drug, which was coffee. | | The catastrophe in this case, of course, was that the sun | | had come up again." -Kurt Vonnegut | | M/C Fuel Inj. Hndbk. @ Amazon.com - http://tinyurl.com/6o3ze | ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com) From bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au Tue Oct 31 21:33:05 2006 From: bernie at innovative.iinet.net.au (Bernd Felsche) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:33:05 +0800 Subject: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link In-Reply-To: <001101c6fc34$b8e9d930$1664a8c0@Independent> References: <20061014170009.B1E6DFB86A@beast.toad.net> <200610260023.34130@death.2.spammers> <001101c6fc34$b8e9d930$1664a8c0@Independent> Message-ID: <200611011133.05795@death.2.spammers> On Monday 30 October 2006 23:04, d at davidhunt.net wrote: > I'm curious. We agree on that, for sure! :-) But please explain why you included the entire previous article when you don't appear to refer to any of it? > 1) If the fuel is delivered to the back of the intake valve and allowed > to heat - is the 'atomization' required? I realize that a larger O2 > charge is available if the fuel evaporates in the chamber, but what if > full evaporation is the actual requirement? That's not direct injection. Direct injection is directly into the cylinder. There is no valve between the injector and the combustion chamber. All the latent heat of evaporation absorbed by the fuel is then from the gases being compressed in the combustion chamber. It provides less time for evaporation so the droplet size has to be smaller. There is no need to allow for "wetting" of inlet tracts and valves with direct injection so the injected quantities can be far more precise; resulting in greater power, fuel efficiency and better control of emissions. In terms of stratified charge, an ignitable rich "bubble" of air-fuel mixture can be concentrated fairly reliably near the spark gap; and allow the engine to run much "leaner" than a homogeneous charge engine fed by port injection, TBI or fuel dripping from a sponge into the inlet manifold. Stratified charge is useful because the (Otto cycle) engine can operate much more efficiently under light load conditions. That is especially so when the throttle valve can be fully opened and the power output regulated by mixture (and EGR flow) control. > 2) If the fuel is evaporated at the intake valve, is there a serious > problem mixing fuel with O2 in the chamber? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bernd Felsche" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 11:23 AM > Subject: Re: [Diy_efi] BMW/Siemens stratified direct injection, link [198 lines snipped] -- /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | "If we let things terrify us, X against HTML mail | life will not be worth living." / \ and postings | Lucius Annaeus Seneca, c. 4BC - 65AD.