RE: Im going CRAZY, WOT tuning is being a bastard! Running outoffuel

[olbap <olbap@mail.mia.bellsouth.net>]

Thanks for the input len, thats what i just did.
My results from running in closed loop are excellent! Though I cannot be
sure whether it is in fact as a result of clearing the ecm and running in
closed because the car was dead cold. If it is a problem with some
electrical part, injectors, or pump, heat soaking i still would not know

I will continue testing and let you guys know what happens.. it was still a
little lean up top this time but i think thats because of a bit of an abrupt
drop in fueling in ve table 2 at 4800 rpm.. all fixed now, hopefully it helped

youd be surprised to know that in the 6 months ive had this combination
running its never made good power past 4800 rpm and i should be peaking at
5500 i would think

hopefully ill figure it out with this new technique

Pablo





At 04:39 PM 5/25/00 -0400, you wrote:
>At 03:15 PM 5/25/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>Mike,
>>This is exactly what I just did, just disabled closed loop. Havent tested it
>>yet. We'll see what happens, if it runs the same at wot all the time and as
>>good as that first time yesterday ill be as giddy as a school girl
>>
>>
>>Len,
>>any reason I should stay down so low on the factory TBI injectors? Ive
>>searched the archives and seen numerous posts stating that the factory GM
>>injectors can take alot more than that, something like 70 psi if memory
>>serves me.
>>Besides, if i ran these injectors at 13 psi i dont think they would support
>>beyond 200 hp.
>>
>>
>>Pablo
>>
>>1.   I'm attempting to point to a baseline combination. I'm sure Factory 
>>Injectors
>  can tolerate more than 9- 13 psi , however , since they are low pressure 
>injectors
>twisting in too much pressure may have the opposite effect of what you 
>desire. Excess
>pressure can cause hydraulic lock or at the very least, muddy the waters 
>with in-
>consistent operation. Running @ 6 - 7x design spec is questionable. 
>Installing a set
>of 454 Tbi Injectors should be capable of being awash in fuel @ design 
>pressure.
>
>2.Your present injectors may not be capable of supporting the power level 
>you seek,
>   at any pressure.
>
>3.Pardon the add on comment; Some other folks have suggested tuning in Open 
>loop to get
>to a good baseline, I agree and would start there, if that doesn't 
>help,then get larger
>capacity injectors. Good Luck in your tuning.
>
>Len
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>At 02:31 PM 5/25/00 -0400, you wrote:
>> >I was once at a site that had a lot of info on this subject.
>> >Also for me in my 165 now 730 tpi in an s15 ecm, had the same problem while
>> >going to the track.
>> >when the car was in limp mode from disconnecting the maf, it ran consistant
>> >but slower.  When i transfered over to the 730, it too had the same problem.
>> >Bruce suggested i disable closed loop and run in open and tune it until it
>> >was bang on.
>> >when forced in open i ran consistant times that were as fast as my first
>> >times.  thru tuning i eventually droped .5 sec of the et.
>> >now i'm working on closed loop  but have not been to the track to test the
>> >latest bin.. will be tomorrow though.
>> >you should also mount a fuel pres guage that you can see while driving  as
>> >close to the injectors as possible.
>> >
>> >my 5cents worth canadian (2 cents american :)
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From:        olbap [SMTP:olbap@mail.mia.bellsouth.net]
>> >> Sent:        Thursday, May 25, 2000 12:43 PM
>> >> To:  gmecm@diy-efi.org
>> >> Subject:     Re: Im going CRAZY, WOT tuning is being a bastard! Running
>> >> outoffuel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It runs strongest at about .9v, currently thats dropping down to very low
>> >> .8's and high .7s wot.. it runs absolutely horrible too, and im getting
>> >> pretty bad knock when it happens.
>> >>
>> >> The more I think about it the more im starting to think heat is causing
>> >> it.
>> >> Not coolant temperature but just some automotive component heat soaking.
>> >> The reason I believe this is because the last time I went to the track, it
>> >> did the same thing. I issumed it was bad injectors because the track is
>> >> 150
>> >> miles away. I figured the ecm would have learned pretty much all there was
>> >> to learn. I ran my fastest time on my first run, each run was
>> >> progressively
>> >> slower and slower and when i finally decided to look at my O2 it was down
>> >> at
>> >> .4 - .5 wot at the end of the night!
>> >> Yes, i have kept copies of each bin as i go and have taken mental notes.
>> >> As
>> >> I said before, i think my part throttle is very close to being right.
>> >>
>> >> Pablo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At 08:08 AM 5/25/00 EDT, you wrote:
>> >> >Pablo,
>> >> >you didn't say what your O2 readings are.  When chip tuning, always
>> >> >take notes, and keep copies of each bin as you go, so you can "go back".
>> >> >If you think the ECM's learning curve is fighting you, kill the power
>> >> >to the ECM and make another test run.. You didn't mention what you
>> >> >are using to gather data, but I would think the integrator numbers should
>> >> >help you tun the fuel...
>> >> >MV
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  I start tuning WOT this morning, friend (or shall i say carbureted
>> >> arch
>> >> >>  nemesis) comes by, first chip it runs very strong.. lean past  4200
>> >> but
>> >> >very
>> >> >>  strong nonetheless,  he thinks  i might give him a run finally... he
>> >> leaves
>> >> >>  afterwards.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  So, I go into my AFR- WOT table.. drop it down some at 4800
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  Go for a spin again.. runs much better.. still lean a bit on top
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  Repeat step two
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  Go for spin again, seems like maybe (this is a shot inthe dark)
>> >> perhaps my
>> >> >>  part throttle isnt as good as i thought, on therich side, and the ecm
>> >> is
>> >> >>  leaning me out across the board
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  Ok, ill just keep richening it up till its beyond the scope of
>> >> adjustment i
>> >> >>  figure (yeah im real half assed about things, i just want it to be
>> >> fast at
>> >> >>  wot at this point)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  Repeat step two.. several times
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  repeat thepart about me going lean several times.. yet getting worse
>> >> >>  andworse each time... down to about 3800 rpms its pretty much done.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  Ok, time to go crazy, so i start making big changes in the AFR and FL2
>> >> just
>> >> >>  to make it  bird killing, rear bumper blackening, plug fouling rich
>> >> (id
>> >> >>  rather work down than up)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  ok, it only makes itBARELY better than what it was
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  at this point, i think a geo metro can beat me
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  desperate times call for desperate measures so i repeat the bird
>> >> killing,
>> >> >>  plug fouling step
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